#just trying to plot some shit

[ineffable-gallimaufry]

intern maureen doesn't have a last name :(

[lord-squiggletits]

One of my favorite parts of phase 2 (and indeed one of the few moments I resonated with IDW Prowl) was when the neutrals were coming back to Cybertron and Prowl said that he refused to let Autobots be pushed aside and overruled after they were the ones who fought for freedom for 4 million years (the exact wording escapes me atm).

And I mean, that resentment still holds true even once the colonists come on bc like. As much as it's true that Cybertron's culture is fucked up, and as funny as it can be to paint Cybertronians as a bunch of weirdos who consider trying to kill someone as a common greeting not important enough to hold a grudge over.... The colonists POV kind of pissed me off a lot of times, as did the narrative tone/implications that Cybertronians are forever warlike and doomed to die by their own hands bc it just strikes me as an extremely judgemental and unsympathetic way to deal with a huge group of people with massive war PTSD and political/social tensions that were rampant even before the war?

Like, imagine living in a society rife with bigotry and discrimination where you get locked into certain occupations and social strata based on how you were born. The political tension is so bad there's a string of assassinations of politicians and leaders. The whole planet erupts into an outright war that leads (even unintentionally) to famine and chemical/biological warfare that destroys your planet. Both sides of the war are so entrenched in their pre-war sides and resentment for each other that this war lasts 4 million years and you don't even have a home planet any more. Then your home planet gets restored and a bunch of sheltered fucks come home and go "ewww why are you so violent?? You're a bunch of freaks just go live in the wilderness so that our home can belong to The Pure People Who Weren't Stupid And Evil Enough To Be Trapped In War" and then a bunch of colonists from places that know nothing about your history go "lol you people are so weird?? 🤣🤣 I don't get why y'all are fighting can't you just like, stop??? Oh okay you people are just fucked up and evil and stupid then" ((their planets are based on colonialism where their Primes wiped out the native populations btw whereas the Autobots and OP in particular fought to save organics. But that never gets brought up as a point in their favor)) as if the damage of a lifetime of war and a society that was broken even before the war can just magically go away now that the war is over.

Prowl fucking sucks but he was basically the only person that pointed out the injustice of that.

And then from then on out most of the characters from other colonies like Caminus and wherever else are going "i fucking hate you and your conflicts" w/ people like literal-nobody Slide and various Camiens getting to just sit there lecturing Optimus about how Cybertronians are too violent for their own good and how their conflicts are stupid, with only brief sympathetic moments where the Cybertronians get to be recognized as their own ppl who deserve sympathy before going right back to being lambasted.

Like I literally struggled to enjoy the story at multiple points because there was only so much I could take of the characters I knew and loved being raked over coals constantly while barely getting to defend themselves or be defended by the narrative so like. It was just fucking depressing and a little infuriating to read exRID/OP

[edwinisms]

hey jayden? yeah can we talk about how lyrics like this are in your charles playlist? hello???

[smilebug]

alright call me crazy but. how do folks feel about an android wall-e jesskas au

[qoldenskies]

what's your separated au about? :0

WHERE WE WENT WRONG ASK SPOTTED [LOCKS IN]

okay essentially without going into spoiler territory (it all seems kind of typical but there's a lot of twists and turns i have planned!!! trust me)

VERY basic premise, with leo/donnie with draxum and raph/mikey with splinter. i'm going to keep leo and donnie's names as they are for simplicity's sake and say that at one point they just decided to use the names their bio father gave them when they asked draxum for like... Actual names, they were probably just numbered before. they both have kind of messy complicated relationships with him

^^^ draxum is a pretty shit parent but im not going to make him super abusive (its fine when people do, im just going for the more nuanced approach!!). he's very goal-oriented and for a long time he's struggled to see the weapons he created as people, although he never outright Abused them. he was pretty emotionally neglectful and hard on them when it came to training/pushing them into their roles, and over the course of the story he's going to grapple both with humanizing them and also descending into a spiral of paranoia as things go on (all im gonna say about what's going on with him right now)

personality alterations are more subtle in some places and more obvious in others. raph is a lot more serious and overprotective, mikey's very similar to his canon characterization but he's a lot more rebellious and determined to prove his own independence, and donnie's actually very blunt and deadpan to counteract leo being UHHHHHHHHHH. hmmmmm. an insane person!! (lmao raph/mikey are dog-coded in the way that mikey is an excitable puppy and raph is an old sad sheepdog, and leo/donnie are cat-coded in the way that donnie is a cat that stays in high up places and glares at you, and leo is the type of cat that rolls on its back and looks cute and then ATTACKS when you try to pet it. thats the best way i can summarize them)

donnie was very much the family stickler on his side of the equation and leo was unruly and untameable, but that kind of... switches after some things happen. leo becomes complacent out of fear (he is so complicated and fucked up god bless) and donnie changes his priorities after he meets mikey.

because essentially the core of the story is that donnie and mikey being the youngest of their families, with overprotective older brothers who are actually kind of more reliant on them than the other way around, want to connect and actually be a family (as well as stop the conflict going on) but raph and leo REALLY DO NOT WANT THEM TO.

and i mean REALLY. really really. raph distrusts donnie and hates leo and leo DESPISES both raph and mikey (disaster twins are really codependent and its gonna shine through), so there's really just opposition on every side of the equation. things turn out alright in the end, but it's.... a long, long process. there's a point in the story where they have to do the unlocking ninpo thing and it takes so much longer and it is so much worse and its such a fucking mess LMAO

wow i love my sep au (one man's junk but with more crying and blood in it)

if things go according to plan it'll start after i finish canary continuity, i already have it all outlined. its just beginning stories that is kind of a struggle for me so the first few chapters are gonna be hard. even though i KNOW what im doing bleckgh.

[scopophobia-polaris]

The fact I have to boot up totk AGAIN, honest to God yall after I make this one fuckass post it is au only I am not doing zelda discourse no more

[im-smart-i-swear]

fuck this shit, vld warrior cats au in 2024. this thing has LORE btw. if you even care

[utilitycaster]

I don't begrudge anyone their campaign preferences, and I think there's plenty of valid reasons to like Campaign 3 the best and this is not directed at people who are genuinely having a great time with it, but it feels like virtually all the nostalgia and wishful thinking I see surrounding Campaign 3 is screaming "you guys want Campaign 2." You want more slow travel and downtime and interparty conversations and slow-burn romance? You wish their main focus was fighting governmental corruption? You want a party that only semi-settles down at the end and keeps adventuring and remains very close? You're frustrated by how everpresent and overarching the moon plot is? You miss when they were just fucking around in a city? I genuinely believe you want Campaign 2, or at best you love a specific ship or a character from Campaign 3 but aren't happy about basically anything else, and would vastly prefer the tone and events and plot of Campaign 2. And I don't really care if you watch Campaign 2, or if you think I'm being annoying here; I simply genuinely believe you'd be happier watching Campaign 2 than Campaign 3 and are so deep in a sunk cost fallacy well you can't see it.

[problemswithbooks]

BNHA Ch. 429

So, I guess Toga is dead, and people are losing it.

I get why people liked her--she was actually queer, being pan/bisexual. She was representation for them and that's rare in shonen manga. But here's the thing--she was bad representation at best and insulting at worst. Nor do I think she was made queer because Hori really wanted to represent a queer girl. Himiko was always the author's poorly hidden fetish--she just was. She liked girls as much as boys because Hori wanted to draw a girl touching sexually on another girl. You can see this in how he draws her and Ochako in solo pics together.

I mean, people seem to understand this when it comes to Momo and her outfit being overly sexual or that both Himiko and Hagakure's Quirks either leave them naked or they have to be naked to use them. These are excuses to draw girls in a sexual manner. Himiko being into other girls is the same thing and that's the kindest interpretation.

Given how Himiko acts and her Quirk being heavily coded sexual desire, and therefore her use of it against someone unwilling being sexual assault, it could just being playing into harmful stereotypes of predatory gays.

As a queer person myself I just found Toga insulting. She was designed to be overly sexual and give the male author a female character that he could draw being suggestive with his other female characters. When he did flesh out her character, her backstory was eventually the trope/fear of straight people, that gay people will be so overcome with their lust that they end up sexually assaulting them.

In the end Ochako accepts this part of Toga and says she'll giver her blood forever, but as much as a lot of readers took that that as some deep lesbian confession, for me it really fell flat. Hori never really gave any of the main kids time to actually learn about their villain or show how that changed their minds toward them. Shoto only works because Touya is his brother (even though he admits he barely remembers him). But Ochako goes from not thinking of Toga at all pre-first war, to one thought about her during her speech, to suddenly caring about her so much she--given how Toga's quirk is coded, is willing to essentially fulfill Toga's kink for the rest of their lives.

It's weird and it comes out of nowhere. It's made even stranger because Toga doesn't actually change or show remorse for anything she did, which included personally hunting and murdering people before she joined the LOV. None of the death and destruction she is also partially responsible for is brought up either, something that Ochako was rightfully upset about during the first war when less people and property had been destroyed. Ochako just accepts everything about her suddenly and her past serious crimes are forgotten so they can cuddle and cry.

Am I shocked Toga died--a little. I didn't think Hori would have the guts to kill off a young girl character, especially one that he clearly got a lot of joy drawing in sexy poses. But at the same time, once he killed off Shigaraki and ended Touya's story with his slow death, I'm not surprised he went the same route with Toga.

This isn't Naruto--Hori isn't really kind to characters that do something wrong, especially if they don't try and change. Enji, Bakugo, Hawks, and Aoyama all sort of got punished for what they did. Enji is the worst off, being permanently crippled, missing an arm and burned everywhere. Bakugo's hand is damaged, his heart weaker, plus he feels bad that Izuku lost his Quirk so they can't compete the same way he wanted them to. Aoyama, despite doing way less wrong and even helping his class during the forest raid, still leaves school because he doesn't feel he earned being there yet. Hawks lost his Quirk and even though him running the HPSC could be seen as good for him, Hawks always wanted a break, but now he has one of the most time consuming and stressful jobs out there.

So, if this is what characters who actively did good things and even changed and fought to be better get, what would characters who never changed and never did anything positive for anyone but their friends/themselves get?

Before the last Arc started, when so many people said the LoV were 100% going to be redeemed I had doubts and always thought it wouldn't make sense with how the story presented redemption or treated other non-LoV villains in the past. That if the main LoV did get some happy ending where they were bffs with the main cast it would clash with how other characters had been treated.

That doesn't mean that I think how Shigaraki, Toga, and Touya ended up in the manga was well done. I think their endings fit far better then a last minute redemption would have, but at the same time you can feel how rushed everything has been since the end of the first war arc. Hori was done with this story months if not years ago, yet he was contractually obligated to finish it. Because of that I think he left out as much as possible. As much as I think he's written some pretty obsessive stuff, particularly towards women, I can't really fully blame him cutting corners or the story being shit at the end.

We know Manga authors, particularly those that work with Jump are treated like shit. That they suffer incredibly long hours at times not even getting to go home for days. We've gotten messages for Hori saying he's sick quite a few times. On top of that, weekly story telling is not a great way to tell a cohesive narrative. Ideas probably change week to week or at least month to month and you can't go back and change the last chapter no matter how much you need or want to. Then you remember he also gave a lot of ideas to the people who made the movies, which would also change his plans for how he wanted the main story to go.

The story is bad--it has been for a while, but I think a lot of people put their hopes on their favorite characters getting a happy ending, even when there were signs that probably wasn't going to be the case. I know how much it sucks when a character you love gets a shitty ending (Stain was my fav, but he got an absolute dogshit ending) but at least, knowing what I know about the industry I can't really blame Hori the way I see some other people doing. Criticize it, sure, but saying Hori hates his readers or is horrible writer isn't true. BNHA was popular for a reason--he's great with characters and the beginning of the story had some great pacing. We'll never know, but I wouldn't be surprised if BNHA could have been amazing if Hori had been treated better and the story hadn't needed a chapter every week.

If anything BNHA has taught me how much a story suffers when authors/artists are treated like crap and forced to work past burnout.

[spotaus]

Late Night quick thing (New Age Sillies)

Bad news: That joke post about including Reset + Orchid is definitely not canon. (I legit got sad thinking about Reset being in a universe where Orchid isn't- because their stories are so so intertwined- but Nightmare 100% would NOT risk the whole twins exploding Error's soul thing.)

Good news: This means I COULD include Kane (Reset's older brother who usually dies in timelines where Reset is born) and use it to develope his character a bit more! Also! Perhaps a Blue × Dream kiddo is finally in the stars for me to design?

[aesterblaster]

Just saw a really clickbait-y youtube video that called Blue Lock fascist in its thumbnail and I will admit first and foremost that I didn't watch it and yes I've been informed that it isn't implying that Blue Lock is some fascistic propaganda but it still got me thinking so-

here's my rant/breakdown about the ways that Blue Lock is specifically anti-fascist

So first of all, popular animes and mangas having possibly fascist undertones is nothing new. I won't deny that there's a long history of Japan being a colonizer and commiting atrocities that are still brushed off or forgotten about to this day. And this does seep into some works that I personally choose to not engage with for exactly that reason. Miss me with trying to be an apologist for or glorifying real world war crimes- But Blue Lock specifically? I'd be extremely hard pressed to call it fascist.

Fascism is defined as an alt-right, ultra nationalistic political ideology usually characterized by a centralized autocracy, forced suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy and subordination of individual interests for the believed good of the nation or race according to Wikipedia. First let's go through the ways Blue Lock does match up with that.

Ego can be easily viewed as a dictator near the beginning of the manga

Most characters thrive on putting others down for their faults and strictly believe that there is some sort of natural order where people who lack "ego" are at the bottom

There is a sort of central autocracy with the top 6

Near the beginning especially, there is a violent snuffing out of any ideology that dares oppose egocentrism or the idea that you need to be a solid team to win a game

Now let's go through the ways Blue Lock denies and even goes against Fascism.

BLLK's main goal is to make a Japanese soccer team that can win a World Cup. In a more fascist manga, we would see racism ga-fucking-lore. We can see this in animes that have more right wing leaning undertones like Attack on Titan where when race is brought in it's for conflict. There's no possibility of harmony, only winners and losers. Those protected and those put down and punished.

And Blue Lock does have an extreme focus on who wins and who loses. It is not afraid to include racism against Japanese people like with Adam or portray black people in unsettling and kind of racist ways like Dada's original design. But these elements don't automatically spell fascism. Blue Lock is careful to portray characters of color as just that, characters. They don't exist to tell you about their lives of hardship and struggle and they don't exist to justify Ego's obessesion with creating a good Japanese team. As you read BLLK, you'll notice that the artist has taken care to get better at drawing different body types and facial structures. The character design isn't trying to sell some perfect ideal like fascism so famously does, it tells you a peak athlete doesn't have one distinct look. It tells you characters from other countries are just as if not more capable than the Blue Lock boys. Hell, even Sae's hatred of Japanese football is portrayed as less of a betrayal of country and pride and more of a cultural clash. The issue to be solved in Sae's character is the way he looks down on his brother, not how much he despises Japanese football teams' tactics. We know this because Ego himself rails against them too.

A fascist manga would paint Sae as a villain for even learning from and joining teams from other countries, lending them his talent instead of keeping it in his home country. But Blue Lock encourages diversification and collaberation with other nation's teams so heavily that it is literally an entire like 5 part arc right now. Ego isn't ultra nationalistic, he just wants to make a better soccer team for his country and he isn't afraid of praising and adopting from other countries in the process. The biggest win to come out of a Blue Lock team wouldn't be that they're all Japanese but that they all follow his ideology.

Speaking of his ideology, Ego is extremely harsh and controlling, yes, but he also believes in the boys. He lets them do what they believe is best. He pushes them to their limits, not because they disobey him, but because they dissapoint him. A true fascist dictator would rule with fear with no introductions of other ideologies, he would strike at any sign of weakness or opposition. At the beginning, he does do this. But as the manga goes on we see how much wiggle room he's willing to allow. He lets Isagi curse at him and question his leadership, he lets Shidou play even though he's clearly queer and extremely volatile, he doesn't punish any of the boys for injuring each other. In a fascist society, you are expected to fit an ideal or be othered, be perfect and work together with a sense of comradere because that's the only way to prove your claims that you are the best race/nation. There can be no imperfections or cracks in the facade...But Ego lets the boys be messy. He never forces them to change who they are, only forces them to believe that they can do great things all on their own. Even with Kunigami, Wild Card wasn't a correction of his disbelief in some nation or race, but instead a correction of how limited his mindset was. In fact, in a more fascist society, Kunigami's love of playing hero and protecting his teammates would be praised and celebrated. Ego putting individuality and aspiration over the good of the team as a whole is literally a middle finger to fascism.

The villain of the series is literally a greedy Japanese man that wants to commercialize the team and make them less individualized. I don't know how much more anti-fascist you could get-

Also, Blue Lock handles disability very carefully and very well. In more alt-right ideologies than not, something you'll see again and again is this idea that disabled people don't deserve the same rights because they can't contribute to society. Disabled people are a stain to be pushed away and hidden because they contradict the central idea of a "perfect" nation. In a fascist retelling of BLLK, Chigiri would be kicked from the program, not given power and influence. In a fascist retelling of BLLK, Kenyu would be attacked and beaten as soon as it was discovered that he made it into the top-six with failing eyesight. Any physical disadvantage could easily put an athlete at the bottom of the social hierarchy as well, Blue Lock could have very very easily made fun of its disabled characters for even trying. It could get away with mistreating these players and be defended for it so fucking quickly. But instead, it lets you root for them and gives them just as much care and weight as the others. It's trying to tell you that being a good player sometimes means knowing your limits and getting help, not punishing yourself because you have some biological disadvantage. It also takes care to demonstrate that no race is inherently worse at soccer than the other.

And, of course, the elephant in the room, Noa and Kaiser. Okay...if you see German characters and immediately think OMG NAZIS??OMG FASCISM?????OMGGGG HE HAS BLONDE HAIR???AND BLUE EYES?? That's a fucking you problem and you clearly aren't reading the manga. Even Noa Noel being an older man and still being allowed to play and looked up to as the best is an example of how Blue Lock goes against steriotypes about athletes. Kaiser does have blonde hair and blue eyes yes, but he also wears eyeliner and eyeshadow and has a tattoo and dyed hair... None of that would be allowed in an actually fascist Japanese manga unless it was as caricature to make fun of and dominate. But instead, Kaiser is an actual threat who has complex arcs and behaviors. Also, Kaiser isn't fascist himself, he clearly views Isagi as an equal even though they're different nationalities and he doesn't believe in any one authority or greater cause except for himself. Noa is very strict yes, and he does rank and rate the boys, but he specifically doesn't factor race into it. He also, just like Ego, allows other ideas and patterns to emerge even if they mess up his own plans for matches. He doesn't suppress anyone and is actually extremely lax. If you think he or BLLK is "fascist", look at actual real world sports teams and their strict practices or past statements about other nationalities.

Isagi as a protaganist is anti-fascist too!!!! He's a Japanese everyman who has good Japanese parents, no disabilities, an honest personality and believes in a future where Japan wins the World Cup. In a fascist story, he'd be fucking untouchable (ESPECIALLY against characters from other countries) and all of this would be paraded as proof that a Japanese soccer team is clearly superior and all-dominating. But no! He gets beat down, questioned, disrespected and constantly shown up by others. He's not special and he's extremely self-centered. He doesn't water his own beliefs down for the "good of the nation" or whatever the fuck and he grew up idolizing foreign players. Isagi never supresses other people's ideologies, he just makes fun of them if they fuck up. He's never xenophobic, even when other characters have moments that have xenophobic undertoens like Adam or Sae's comments. Isagi Yoichi's character could have a few traits flipped and be a poster boy for some alt-right manga about how superior Japanese people or hell, Ego's pupils are. But he doesn't. He's simply designed and he's rude and he looks down on people, but he also apologizes, humbly accepts when he can improve by questioning his own ideals and is open to talking with everyone he comes across.

Calling Blue Lock a "fascist soccer manga" is not only demonstrating that you have no idea what fascism is, but also disgustingly painting over all the beautiful themes and messages within the manga.

Again I'm aware that that original video wasn't aiming to negate any of these points but I have seen people make claims and jokes before that about Blue Lock's more *beat it into your head* tendencies with ideology. And I've seen jokes specifically about the German team/the way Sae seems to just hate Japanese culture. I just dislike the painting of Blue Lock as a jumping point for discussions about fascism and its effects because of the way it handles themes like cross cultural connection, family pressures, capitalism and disability so carefully.

[puhpandas]

as someone who isnt super excited for sotm for certain reasons I am really glad that like. it's clear that since ruin theyve been setting up for carnival and sotm IS carnival. so now that carnival is finally coming out, afterwards theyll be moving on to other plotlines since the main villain stuff is sorted out

I'm just rlly happy to finally see a clear direction for how the story is gonna be playing out with like "okay these games were leading up to this so after this will be open possibilites" instead of like. absolutely no info about each upcoming game and being left guessing before it releases and just having to wait and see what's in it and if anything you're looking forward to will be in it

it feels like they have a plan and a solid direction for what they're trying to do and after carnival releases thatll be all that buildup coming to fruition. & we already know from the Scott interview that theres another release 'beyond sotm' that's 'super exciting' so maybe thatll be focusing on another big currently untouched (which is basically all of them) plotline, or even the big campaign game that dawko has been calling security breach 2

[labyrynth]

*deep sigh*

don’t make me tap the sign

[randomnameless]

Genuine question, not trying to start a fight, why do you get so upset about gods and churches being presented in a negative light in fictional works?

No pbs!

I guess it's a mix of being too common, too forced and having, in general, the cast use common tropish arguments to fight /defeat them.

I rant a lot about this game, but take TS where we have three sort of factions opposing each other, and each are supposed to suck. Who is the faction who never receives any "positive traits" or "pet the dog" moment?

The game force fed us a scene where an Aesfroti soldier - when Aesfrost is depicted as a highly militarised nation with a cult of personality towards their current ruler, that invaded the protag's home and slaughtered several civilians and NPCs in the process - say goodbye to his wife and kids before going to "war" to defend his land against, well, the protags who are invading it to kill their warmongering leader.

As force-fed as this scene was, it, I believe at least, tried to tell us that even the Aesfrosti who pillaged villages and killed their inhabitants are humans, and care about their loved ones, sure it's corny, but it's all about not deshumanising any party.

When we attack Hyzante? Niet, zilch, nothing. No similar scene where random soldiers, or NPCs, worry about what is going on and if they're going to die when their wall has been breached. They just, don't exist in this context.

I think the cherry on the cake is the Golden Route scene, where, apparently, nationalists Aesfrosti decide to turn back against their ultra charismatic leader because, uh, he "lied" when he declared the war and used a false pretense, so the soldiers and people who were butchering babies and invading a city where people were preparing a marriage apparently now have morals and rebel.

There's no similar scene for Hyzante when the cast reveals that the teachings of their Goddess were made up and salt wasn't exclusively given to them by divine intervention, because rock salt exists everywhere. Sure it would be a bit weird and forced that people thinking they're chosen ones and looking down on everyone else suddenly, hm, don't break down when their entire system of belief is shattered, but hey, if the Aesfrostian Gregor can have morals after washing his hands of all this Glenbrookian blood, why shouldn't religious npc #55 not make the same heel face turn?

And then, we have the slavery/human experimentation plot - in general, when TS tries to give nuance, they more or less explain/justify why something that "sucks" is done, it's basically Silvio's character.

Aesfrost' Gustadolph manages to push his "freedom" mentality because his land is a harsh place where people are desperate to survive, salt smuggling is reprehensible, but it's the only way to give some to the ones who cannot afford it. Of course is everyone is free, no one is because, as Gustadolph puts it, they're basically free to die for his ambitions.

Hyzante? Follows a racist creed where Rozellians have to pay for some great sin, and are slaved away in a lake to recover salt until they die. It's, later, justified by Hyzante wanting to keep its salt monopoly else they don't have anything, and wanting to curb down the Rozelle people because they know about the exitence of rock salt (and I guess getting free workers to harvest salt from the lake + having state enemies make his own population docile/not willing to rebel ?).

And then, we have the human experimentations, that are just done for, uhh, Idore's lol. When Hyzante is known for its "advanced medicine" and we could have had the usual dilemna of, idk, having those humans experimentations used to develop this medicine that is reknown in the world (idk, sacrificing a Rozellian to save someone else's life?) - it's not the angle the devs picked. Rozellians are sacrificed to power up an idol, Idore wants to control the world through his idol and soft power (compared to Gustadolph's hard power) and manipulates his people (just like Gustadolph) to do so.

The two are very similar, but who is the final boss? Complete with a transformation in an eldritch monster? The war-mongering imperialist or the jaded old man who is leading de facto a religion?

Hopefully there's the entire "human experimentations for no other purpose than the lols" to settle them apart.

---

I recently watched Dune, and even if I have some issues with the adaptation, the Bene Gesserit isn't portrayed as "comically" evil-er than the Harkonen Empire, I reckon the comparison isn't adequate, because Dune is multi book series when I'm mostly talking about video games.

Symphonia's church of Martel is a font for the Big Bad (tm) to put in motion his nefarious plans, and yet, through the game, we see how random clergymen use their, uh, religious buildings to help people around. Ultimately Martel herself is reincarnated through plot device and tells the big bad to stop being an ass and the story is less about "church and gods evil" but "big bad distorts Martel/church's teachings and role for his plans because he has a tragic backstory"

(but then Symphonia ends with the biggest whitewashing from every Tales I've played for its big bad so I'll stop talking about it because otherwise I'm going to be salty).

Abyss' church is more or less the same thing - the Church is supposed to help people deal with the fact their verse has "predestination stones" where the future is already written, and in the course of the game, we see how it has several factions and one opposes the group (who has the pope as a NPC!) - but it's not a story about "gods bad church BaD".

I remember playing Suikoden Tierkreis a long time ago, and while the game seemed to go through familiar "church bad gods bad" route and we end with defeating a god-like entity... I pretty much loved the twist that, in a game that relied on alternate dimensions/universe, the god-like entity was actually the protag if he made different choices!

In those games, if you fight a religious body and someone pretending to be a God or what not - it's not because people fight against an eldritch creature who wants world domination and to erase puny insects, or is the reason why everything goes wrong, but because, at the end, the conflict/fight is ultimately caused by someone, generally a human or at least a non "god like" entity, wanting to destroy the world.

I don't remember if FE was my first JRPG series or not, but I always liked the idea that if the world is doomed in those games and the heroes must prevent said doom, it's not because a god-like being wants to destroy the world, but because people, humans/randoms are the most shitty ones out there.

---

As for the "tropes" often used to deride fictional churchs and religious people, well, I will again point to TS - which did a splendid job in the Benedict Route where you smash Hyzante after allying with Aesfrost.

There's one battle where out protags diss Hyzantese because they worship a goddess and have no free will, listening to Her teachings and Her says (the traditional "religious people have no free will and listen to their churches who tell them how to think!") - which is immediately countered by one of those Hyzantese characters asking Serenor if he's not the same, but instead of blindly listening to a Goddess, blindly follows Benedict. And it ends with the final chapter title referencing automatons/puppets : who is that title talking about ? The fake "idol" Idore created, or the fake "king" Benedict created?

Anyways, the usual "religions people have no free will because their church/religion tells them how to think" trope reeks of r/atheism and the double standard - bar in this route of TS, but I guess, in TS itself in the Roland route! - is never called out, blindly following a charismatic leader is okay, as long as charismatic leader isn't religious?

Regardless of my IRL thoughts about religion, usually those tropes are presented as a "gotcha!" when they are... not at all, but the games/books leave it at that and we're supposed to roll with it.

I'd say it's lazy writing or, as we saw in Naruto, a quick way to end a story without having to dwelve in characters and their motivations : "you're a god/alien/other being and you're bad, so let us do what we want!" - end of the story.

Hopefully some fillers and to an extent, Boruto gave her more meat bar being the 11 hour villain we had to defeat quick and who manipulated the previous sad'n'lonely antagonists - but it still felt rich from Naruto, known for his famous "talk no jutsu" and trying to understand people he's fighting against, to drop the ball with Kaguya, calling her pure malice and ending with some "let us live the way we want" to wrap up the plot so he can wrestle with his boyfriend later on.

In the end, we often end up with "religion bad bcs the big bad manipulates people through it", as if those mangas/animes/vg never have other examples of charismatic people not using religion to manipulate their randoms/people or "gods bad they should let humans do what they want" when we've read/seen/played through various, uh, really fucked-up shit humans did - but on their own! and ultimately, but it's more in fandom spaces, with have Projection 101.

TLDR : church/religion/gods are too often used in those works as the ultimate scapegoat to either wrap up a story in a rushed ending or to pretend to have "nuance" but still have a common enemy where all the "nuanced" characters can grow/be whitewashed and side together against that "common enemy".

Just like in all things I guess, I prefer when something isn't painted as purely negative and all of the positive traits are erased because there is a need for a perfect scapegoat - sure, bring out too much "nuance" and writing/designing a game/manga/anime becomes harder because there's no "clear cut" antagonist, and yet, the one who always gets fucked in this scenario is the religious/church side.

Want a generic stock villain who will destroy the world so the heroes have to fight against them? Just create a "religion" in your setting, and have the big bad either hell bent on resurrecting Chtullu to destroy the world because Chtullu BaD, or have them be the most corrupt piece of shit who manipulate everything in the shadows, so the rest of the world, even the ones who slaughter others bcs they feel like they must start a war, can be whitewashed at the end.

I mean, there's a saying about diverting attention from a fire by starting a bigger one near, or a trope of "aliens made them do it" : who cares if Madara started a continental war and targeted a village full of random civilians he swore to protect because he lost the elections? Did y'know he was manipulated by a woman, I mean, an eldritch thing created by a woman, regarded as a God, who ultimately wanted to get out of her fridge to kill everyone?

Roland must get over his hatred for Aesfrost for barging in his kindgom and killing hundred of his people while they were preparing for a wedding, because hey, Idore is evil and plans on ruling the world through his sham religion!

I'll forever be salty at TS for not giving Kamsell the occasion to rise against Idore, or not even have minor NPCs get the same treatment as Sycras suddenly going all "u lied to me gustadolph so i won't listen to u anymore + sad goodbyes to my wife'n'kids".

Extremism of all kinds can lead to wars/tragedy/fucked up shit - Sure I don't want to get my History lessons in video game medium when I play lol, but what I really don't like is how it feels like depicting "they're extremists because they're religious" feels like the default/easy answer : want a bunch of brainwashed people the heroes must fight against and can't talk no justu their way out of this fight/will fight without looking too BaD? Depict those people as "misguided" members of a corrupt church/believers of a religion, no one will givea fig. If they are instead supporters of a charismatic leader who throws them through the meatgrinder to further their goals? Well, there's no automatic loyalty so either you have to show/depict it on screen, else it can be challenged at key points to demonstrate how those people - who follow the charismatic leader - aren't completely "mindlessly listening to their leader" or how their leader "isn't that bad after all".

[divinelyjude]

No, I don’t need a therapist. What I need is a fic with 75k+ words that doesn’t take me two hours to read. And a therapist.

[yuusakuhanazawashole]

I think it's really funny to come across people who morally posture about certain characters and ships in Golden Kamuy. Like. Nearly the whole cast is convicted criminals and/or members of a historically-known-to-be-cruel-and-unethical imperial army. Are we really doing this.