#jaune arc critical

[lunatriense]

Hunter (toh) or Jaune? And why?

Hunter all day. He doesn't have good female characters fridged for his manpain, he's much more complex, he has an actual storyline about redemption where he shows real growth and struggle rather than "I cheated my way in but everyone loves me except the designated bully", he doesn't randomly become the centre of the show when he joins the main cast but does provide a new perspective, he's not a NiceGuy™ but rather a genuinely nice guy (despite his initial brainwashing that he had to shake off).

That's just off the top of my head, if I think about it for awhile I'm sure a lot more will come to me. There's just no comparison, it's like asking what's the better drink, Coke or dog piss.

[the-path-to-redemption]

What, Jaune is allowed to be imperfect and have misplaced anger at Ruby due to emotional meltdown, but Ruby can't even have the luxury to blame him for something that is 100% his fault?💀 go fuck yourself miles

The amount of writer's misogyny that Ruby experiences is insane bro, I cannot-

This is why no one fucking believes Miles when he said that "Jaune isn't his self-insert" and "he actually hates writing Jaune" because that's fucking bullshit. So many times we've seen Ruby actually having a hint of character depth and progression, here comes Jaune with his fucking perspective and his pain and his moment and his character coming in to completely bulldoze any of that fucking growth Ruby might have. Because it's not about Ruby or her experience, it's Jaune's turn.

Holy shit, with friends like this, why does Ruby even need enemies?

[dragynkeep]

Gonna continue with the SI stuff. The problem isn’t “this character is a self insert” the problem is “this character is a self-insert that actively takes away from the story/main character focus”

You wanna know why Jaune is the rusted knight? Because miles wanted to include jaune in everything. Even in a volume where the focus is supposed to be on the main girls, Jaune just HAD to be in it.

Exactly. Jaune didn't need to be in this volume, he didn't need to fall, he didn't need to kill Penny, he didn't need this big blowup regarding his isolation and grief. The reason he did all of these things is because the writers wrote him to do so.

What could've easily been a volume about our four main protagonists dealing with the aftermath of everything, with Ruby FINALLY getting to show her grief and struggles, was now co opted by Jaune for his own grief about Penny and the deaths of the Paper Pleasers.

When the Paper Pleasers could've easily gone to Ruby or Weiss. Ruby wanting to protect these people like she couldn't for Penny, Pyrrha, Beacon, Atlas, and when she failed yet again she finally breaks because her friends are trying to push her to move forward.

"It's okay, Ruby. You did your best."

Except when her best wasn't good enough. When doing her best doesn't suddenly mean that tthe consequences aren't hers to deal with.

Or Weiss, fresh from the destruction of her entire kingdom, her home, the death of her abusive father that she never got closure from, the idea that her remaining family is left to fight against Salem in a war she knows they can't win.

So she becomes the Rusted Knight and projects Atlas onto the Paper Pleasers. Only for her team to come and people end up dying again.

Let these two people who're so impacted by their actions actually get the storyline to flesh this out. Instead, we get Ruby's grief pushed to the side for Jaune's big moment again, before being solved by drinking the suicide tea, and Weiss was delegated to comic relief and a few moments of actual pathos regarding the fact that her home is gone.

[konnoiseur]

i think the funniest thing about "jaune gets so much better screentime and writing compared to the girls hes literally the main characters" is that jaunes writing literally isnt even good. like its frankly not good at all if you stack his writing up against any other protagonists, specifically the male hero archetypes hes clearly supposed to emulate. its just that the writers, in their own words, think they have done such interesting and deep character writing for the girls (bc they bought into their own hype and rely on fan interpretation to do the writing for them) that when they put jaune through approximations of the heroes journey, it looks WAY better in comparison to the mess that is the main girls writing.

but like. all these jaune Moments that steal screentime? ARENT EVEN THAT GOOD. v9 is arguably wheres jaunes character writing is the best and thats SQUANDERED by the finale essentially just resetting him, and not actually letting anything have CONSEQUENCES. theres no actual catharsis nor character development (afawk for now) and just puts jaune in this weird position of taking screentime from the mains but its warranted by the writing up until this point and his plight is Sympathetic but the entire time ur wondering who ur supposed to sympathize with more and its offset by silly talking animals and a god tree and its all just such a mess of ableism and trauma that u cant even properly enjoy it

v5s finale was utter dogshite and so that moment for jaune where he acts irrationally and gets weiss nearly killed through his own stupidity isnt actually built up to and so when the finale takes up FOUR FUCKING EPISODES u just are sitting there wondering why any of this is even happening. and again, LACK OF CONSEQUENCES. there could have been something INTERESTING with jaune realizing that he nearly got a friend KILLED through his actions, having HIM be the one ostracized throughout the atlas arc instead of ren, but they just. didnt? so again this set up wasnt set up in of itself and its consequences were nonexistent.

so its one of those things right where yeah, in comparison to the rest of the show, even a shoddily written and failed heroes journey, like the one jaune is supposedly on, looks way more compelling because hes the only one getting any iota of growth. but even that growth is TERRIBLE in terms of the overall story.

(which as a result makes it hard to like jaune as a character, like i do, bc like. the writers think theyre playing 4D Chess with the main girls but in actuality they cant write for shit and so its the uncomfortable truth that jaune is a better main character than the literal title character. and that SUCKS.)

[iceaura39]

Just gonna drop this here.

[lunatriense]

Can't beat allegations when they're so obviously true.

They're really not beating the Jaune wank allegations when they put him on the cover of the compilation over Yang or Weiss, especially when Jaune's not even in the second half of the movie.

God forbid we go ten minutes without acknowleding the stupid cunt.

[lunatriense]

People complain that Ruby cheated or projected Jaunes's shortcomings onto her. The difference is Ruby actually put in the work she was recognized and offered the chance to move up. Blake was also accused, but unlike Jaune, Blake had prior combat experience that qualified her for Beacon.

100% this. She got preferential treatment, sure, but it wasn't something that she caused to happen. She was qualified to be there, and so was Blake. Jaune wasn't even qualified for McDonald's

[the-path-to-redemption]

Ruby deserves to have a victim impact statement with Jaune for killing Penny. I want her to ask him in a cold, probing tone "Did you watch the light leave her eyes?"

Unfortunately, that would just mean more angst material for Jaune and more ammo against Ruby for feeling the way she does about Penny, because fuck her and her emotions, it's just for Jaune even if he murdered someone she considered a good friend (despite everything) because he gets to feel anguish for what happened to him.

I'm just annoyed whenever I think about Jaune now. He was a secondary character who got that special treatment because M*les can live his fantasy through him, and in a way, I am mad for Jaune. His writing is chocked full of misogynistic and transphobic rhetoric since the get go, when he can be so much more than just M*les dumbass, male fantasy self-insert in a show they heralded as "girl power", when none of the girls get the same level of care that Jaune does as characters.

Fuck this noise bruh.

[dragynkeep]

They really did just try to mix Jaune into everything even at the cost of other more relevant characters didn't they? Fan favorite character(s) die? Time to make it all about Jaune. Far more experienced fighters need a strat too deal with an enemy? Time for Jaune to come up with a half-ass plan an pretend it's good. Character(s) reach their limit and justifiably lash out? Well here comes Jaune to either talk down to them and/or make the situation worse. I could go on but you get what I'm saying?

yeah. this volume really cemented that no matter how much they'll try to put jaune on a "back burner", it won't last for long & he will still become center stage above the main girls when it comes down to brass tacks which is just.

at this point, name the show jrwby, mkek. stop pretending like you're not salivating at the idea of this whitebread loser being center stage with his ugly ass yeye haircut to kill off another woman for his "emotional growth" which goes nowhere.

[superiorsturgeon]

Pyrrha: *visiting Argus and enjoying a hot tub*

Saphron: *wrapped in a towel* Hey, Pyrrha Nikos! What a surprise running into you! Do you mind if I join you in the hot tub?

Pyrrha: *sinks down a bit* Uh…I can’t think of any reason why you shouldn’t…! 😅

Saphron: *drops her towel and slips in* Oooooh…! That feels good…!

Pyrrha: 😐

Saphron:

Saphron: …listen, Pyrrha…can I call you Pyrrha?

Pyrrha: Oh! Of course…!

Saphron: I know that you were partnered with my little brother Jaune. He talks about you all the time in his letters and on the phone.

Saphron: I don’t know much about your relationship or about you, but I know you’re a big celebrity and I’m pretty my brother likes you.

Pyrrha: I…well…I’m flattered…? 😅

Saphron: Now, I know he’s kind of a dork, and that he’s got terrible social skills, but he’s my baby brother, so I don’t want to see him hurt! 😔

Saphron: I’m honestly amazed he made it this far in combat school, let alone landed a partner like you!

Pyrrha: …well…Jaune is very determined and that’s just how the chips fell! 😅

Saphron: Look…I guess what I’m trying to say is…please don’t hurt him. If he asks you out, just let him down gently, okay? I love my brother but you are, like, WAY out of his league! 🙄

Pyrrha: *fidgeting awkwardly* …um…well, I think you may be selling him a bit short… 😕

Saphron: Well, whatever happens, please just be kind to him. I know he thinks he’s a big, tough huntsman student now, but to me he’ll always be my goofy baby brother who cried when we watched Finding Nemo!

Pyrrha: Well, um, you can certainly count on me to take care of Jaune!

Saphron: Thanks, Pyrrha. I really worry about him, you know? He’s like a wet cat sometimes, so pathetic that you just want to protect him! 😆

Saphron: Oops! I think I left my phone in the locker room! I’d better grab it in case my babysitter needs me!

Saphron: *climbs out of the tub and walks away*

Pyrrha: *cranes her neck and watches until Saphron turns a corner* 😬

Pyrrha: *frantically reaches under the water and pulls* 😰

Jaune: *surfaces beside Pyrrha with no clothes on and gasping for breath* I thought she’d never leave…! 😫

[matt0044]

Regarding the "Does RWBY like women?" poll (yes, yes it does BTW).

You know... the whole poll debacle reminded me of something.

RWBY helped me expand my media diet by telling me that just because people hate something enmass, it could just all be bullshit coupled with mob mentality.

Instead of hatedoms getting me to think:

"Damn, I don't even wanna be associated with that show based on the rage it inspires."

My more skeptical brain is like:

"Okay, so why is it reeeeeeeally hated? Is it reeeeeeeally bad or are people going along with the crowd because critical thinking is too much of a burden in this capitalist hellscape?"

Because bad media literacy is in part a result of the fact that most geeks and normies alike aren't out to be legit critics but rather just want to enjoy the thing, gush about the thing and so forth. They can't exactly articulate their reasonings why like they're trying to get an A+ in Therapy Studies.

And THAT is how the YouTube Video Essay and Angry Critic scene takes off.

We dunk on the Nostalgia Critic (often for VERY real IRL grievances) but his catchphrase: "I remember it so you don't have to" is something many who'd come after would take to heart. These video maker people are taking about a thing you like and are explaining it in a way you not only agree with but makes you feel vindicated.

Be it for love... or for hate.

Because hatedom circles like the RWDE looks to video essays that reassure them, keep them from doubting their stance on the thing and how they enforce it.

With the burden of actually seeing the thing and thinking hard taken off of them, people can confidently say things like "RWBY prioritizes Jaune" despite not looking at any potential evidence in the show that might contridice it.

Which is why this is a call for everyone to question the popular opinions.

Does Jaune Arc reeeeeeally get that much narrative importance at the expense of the main girls?

Was Jaune reeeeeeeally a self-insert?

Was Ironwood reaaaaaally derailed in his character arc?

Was Adam reeeeeeeeally representative of the Faunus?

Was the Faunus reaaaaaally offensive?

And of course...

Was Monty Oum reeeeeeeeally the only one who's vision matter to the show above all else?

Ask yourself these questions and do the work to back them up. If people are giving you responses that contridict you, responses that take evidence from the work itself more often than not, then try to do the same in turn.

Think about that show or movie being panned? What if... you actually like it?

Not everybody is a critic... but we can at least try to.

[lunatriense]

You know people keep telling me that rwby are the main characters and should stop focusing and hating on jaune.

Yet here is the justice league x rwby dvd cover that has jaune on the front cover: no Weiss or Yang (the main characters) but Jaune is up there??

Why exactly he was on the front cover again?

Yuuuuuup. They couldn't leave their Most Super Specialest Boy off the cover, then people might think he's not the centre of the universe!

[lunatriense]

This would've been so much better.

Ok but how cathartic would it have been if instead of Jaune being the famous Rusted Knight all along, V9 was written so that Ruby fell into the Ever After and became this aged warrior in a tattered cape called the Hooded Huntress or whatever, spending the last few decades stewing over her friends' death and her perceived uselessness, pushing herself to protect the Ever After as its sole guardian all this time.

Her teammates try to find and console her, but reuniting with them after so long just brings back all the bitter memories and she does everything she can to avoid them, even Yang. Inwardly Ruby is torn because the chance of meeting her team again was why she's even alive and fighting after all these years, but now... she can't even bear to face them.

Slowly but surely her team reaches through to her. And then it all slowly clicks: Ruby and her friends figure out she's the Hooded Huntress. She's the hero in the books Ruby always looked up to. She's the fairy tale ideal Blake wished the world could be. She's the hero Weiss would think about to push herself through her training. She's the hero Yang would read to her about during bedtime. Her tale may have even been old enough to inspire Maria and Qrow to become Hunters. Summer herself.

All of this hits Ruby like a truck, knowing that she was always meant to be a hero and has still done so much good, more than she'll ever know. And Ruby learns to accept her mantle once again and returns to Remnant wiser and better than ever. She may not have been enough to save the kingdom of Atlas or Penny, but she poured her everything into the Ever After to make up for it and in doing so, became the hero the world would soon need; that it always had.

Fuck your ascension and fuck your suicide tea; Ruby chose to keep going for one more day instead of giving up, if only for the sake of others, but found not only the light at the end of the tunnel; she was the light guiding others through it, even when she was too caught up in the darkness around her to see it herself.

But I guess we needed Jaune to be the big hero again. He's canonically now a bigger and more influential hero than Ruby, Summer or almost any other Hunter in existence can hope to be - immortalised forever as an enduring tale thousands of children and aspiring Hunters would emulate, even after Team RWBY themselves are gone.

Like. Let Ruby have fucking something. Is she still the protagonist or is she fucking not.

[the-path-to-redemption]

This has been reiterated a thousand times but it's unfair to Ruby to prescribe her all those utmost positive, goodest, purest traits because the writers seem to have forgotten that she's supposed to be a human being not a cardboard cutout indisputably acting in accordance to what she's normally "supposed" to be like and thus should be allowed to get vicious and vengeful for once, especially if the cruel circumstances have been pushing her mental health to that point. Let Ruby get those negative emotions out. Let Ruby have a long term grudge against Cinder, Mercury, Emerald. Let Ruby shove Jaune against the ground and give him a reality check, rubbing it in his face that he's no hero, nor "the only one" who could do it as he delluded himself to think, he's the murderer of her friend.

Not gonna lie to you, I was on that rabid sports fan shit when Ruby FINALLY got to go off on her neglectful ass friends and sister in V9 because my god she needed that. An entire kingdom collapsed because of her bad decisions and hubris, her uncle is still missing the last she saw him, the rest of her friends are stranded in a Grimm-infested desert and HER BEST FRIEND WAS MURDERED AGAIN. Let Ruby be angry and sad and human for once ffs.

I hate that, once again, Jaune's anger and misery were prioritized while Ruby's was demonized. He got to be embraced and coddled by his friends while Ruby was cast out and treated like a threat by fucking everyone around her as if she were a nuisance. I went from being angry at her to just feeling bad, because she's not even a character, let alone the protagonist when the writers don't give a damn about how she feels after a catastrophe.

[dragynkeep]

It’s hard to try and enjoy Jaune as a character because you’re both going up against him in canon where he sucks up screen time and focus from everyone else and his fans who will attack you if you dare mention that he isn’t a harem god king with every woman hanging on his side.

I hate it here

the most annoying point for me is that you'll get jaune stans who claim they're "insert the most tolerable leftist identity here" & act as if that cancels out either the creators misogyny or the majority of jaune stans' misogyny.

like congratulations, you're the special snowflake amongst the bunch, have a cookie. it doesn't stop a majority of jaune stans being incredibly insufferable to the point that a fairly large chunk of fans of the show & even those who haven't watched it avoid this character because of the reputation of his fans.

god forbid the stupid nerd stay in his place for once & not validate his stans fantasies of no longer being the kid shoved into the locker at school for being a nerd. wah wah.

[howlingday]

Neo: (Reaches into bag)

Nora: WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!

Neo: !!!

Neo: (Shakes head)

Nora: What are you looking for? Maybe something like THIS~?

Nora: (Holds up folded sheet of paper) What'll you give me for it~?

Neo: (Pulls out lien)

Nora: Nope~!

Neo: (Pulls out more lien)

Nora: Ah, ah, ah~! I want something OTHER than lien.

Neo: ...

Neo: (Hands over her hat)

Nora: ...Deal! (Takes hat, Gives paper)

Neo: (Opens paper, It's blank, Stomps)

Nora: Don't go through my stuff! I know everything I have!

Nora: (Walking away) She's going through your stuff, by the way.

Jaune: (In the tub) Who is?!

Jaune: (Walks in, Wearing a towel) WHAT?!

Neo: !!!

Jaune: WHAT THE FUCK?!

Jaune: GITONOUTTAERE! GIT! SCOOT! SHOO!

Neo: (Scampers away)