#ivan did not love him in a way till could understand

[quiescentem-puella]

not to be more insane about this (I am) but alnst last comic about till's provider/creator/mother... once again, we see how lovely Till is and once again!!! it is not from his own pov. because when we gaze from Till's eyes, the only pure and shining thing is Mizi 🥲 because he doesn't think that he is anywhere as lovely and worthy as she is...

no but it kills me that in the end it's about Ivan, who was always described as someone the aliens couldn't understand, that WE AS THE AUDIENCE know every single thought... while Till, that's so explosive with his emotion and singing, remains a mystery bc we only know mizi was his light and hope.

with ivan we saw how he fell in love with till, why, how he faced the moments between rounds... his childhood in anakt, the escape under the meteor shower... his own song, black sorrow, was so viscerally intimate. And there's this moment

that GETS me every time because the emotions we see on his face? HE DIDN'T MEAN TO SHOW THEM!! He said in his post-round3 interview that he was startled when the camera got so close... and notice how he tries to regain his composure immediately? his whole character is about putting a façade but when he sings about till, when he's with him, he can't manage... we see him so naked in his emotions every time...

but with till? he was so desperate to escape reality by idealizing Mizi, by making her his unreachable muse, that we know almost nothing of his thoughts outside of her. like yeah, we know he was treated horribly and experimented on, but his thoughts? his emotions? apart from what we could read on his face, we know nothing. We just see, over and over again, how Mizi is his only escape...

and he put her on a pedestal ON PURPOSE!! mizi was so warm and friendly, they were close, but it was TILL who put her in the sky to shine as his star, far from him!! he wanted her far from the cruel world he lived in, which meant far from him as well!! she was safer and happier away!

which is why it kills me that his final thought is a moment when they are close. Physically, but also for a single moment they had the same goal (hiding from the aliens) and felt the same giddiness... oh i'm going to kill myself.

[crustyfloor]

A new pop-up store dropped for ALIEN STAGE's 2nd anniversary and wow. It's so sick.

It's Interesting what exactly these experiments are focusing on and monitoring.

Instrument practice

I found it interesting earlier that Till was so tame, more so than he usually is when he's going through experiments, but music, and making music is what he loves doing, So he was fully in his element here. This was probably the only thing he was made to do by the aliens that he at least tolerated.

(Additionally, judging by his collar (orange), he was at least calm. maybe he just isn't fazed anymore.)

//Side note, that head contraption looks familiar BUT this most likely isn't related at least i hope

(It puts me at ease, at least..)

Dance practice

This surprised me, but I suppose Mizi needed more skills.

She looks very startled here, and nervous(?) +It looks like she's doing this while singing. And with that face covering I assume this was a test monitoring her dance balance, precision, etc. At first, I did think it was odd, "Why would Shine put her through that" But alas I was reminded that even though Mizi is the flower of the group she was never untouchable, to Shine, this was the equivalent of teaching your dog to sit and stay.

(seeing this it reminded me of those scenes in movies where the people are dancing, and the music gets faster and faster until they fall. I wonder if she was doing through something similar to that)

Singing practice (?)

Similar to Till she also looks quite calm outwardly, if the machine around her neck is an iteration of the collars they have, then this process wasn't something she liked, or given how intense this experiment looks, this was a test of high-pressure to ensure she always stayed calm during performances (?). Then again this could also be a posture practice given all the structure focused on maintaining her position.

(What I believe was another form of this test was shown before so I think so)

(With her hands in a praying stance I wonder if she was praying to herself or singing a religious song (sweet dream?) It's also interesting that the machinery around her looks like a halo, and she looks so...angelic? holy?)

Image making practice

By image making, I think they made Ivan replicate expressions with his face. Whether this process was painful for him or not...I'm not sure. But it looked visibly uncomfortable, maybe that was the point. (His expression, even in this circumstance is so dubious..)

Ivan, among other things, needed to have a spotless appearance to be successful, his image was a priority given his skills were certainly guaranteed.

I assume the aliens eventually took note of his lack of expression, in the real world this can be a detriment to one's career, so the Aliens had to ensure quality was perfect. (To a more...dedicated level)

Superiority test

'Superiority test' Is very vague.

HyunA is very calm here too, likely sedated in that water with all the tablets on her. I guess this was a test to get an idea of a pet human's strengths and weaknesses, endurance, and temperament to compare and contrast them with others, testing who is more viable for Alien stage?

Another interesting, and sad part about this is that HyunWoo was there, watching his sister through her experiments.

(Also, it looks like both of her legs are normal, no alien leg yet.)

Heart rate variability

And finally, the most visceral of them all. The wording 'variability' makes this all the more sickening, the Aliens were testing his heart hours, testing it at different rates, speeds, and states. And he was in agony the entire time. Even the way he's clutching his chest, it gives me chills. This would've been a completely harmless test in a normal setting, as something quite similar to this can be performed efficiently in real life. But he's being tortured in the process.

This is one of the first times we've ever seen Luka's face so truly clear and unprotected, (understandably so.) He's even crying.

[ayakashiz]

Reposting this from my twitter thread because it hasn't left my head (and adding a tiny bit more).

Seen so many questionable takes lately about the ivantill kiss, and I know everyone is allowed to have different opinions and interpretations but.

No, Ivan didn’t just pretend to kiss Till for the show. And no, he wasn't trying to make Till hate him either or trying to trigger him over his implied SA to snap him into action.

I think the whole point of the scene (confirmed by the creators) is Ivan finally breaking his mask of perfection and control and giving in to his messy, all consuming feelings, being selfish for once.

Yes, by the end before the strangling starts, he appears more clear headed and now focused on the objective of manipulating the score. But he doesn't really look at it until AFTER he starts strangling Till.

The kiss itself wasn't part of the strategy, or at least not entirely something calculated. Ivan could have skipped the kiss and strangled Till right away and gotten the same result.

The fact that he kissed him AGAIN after he started strangling him, more softly and 'personal', almost like a goodbye or an apology (whether for his selfishness or for their past), tells me he wanted it.

I think a last selfish act doesn't diminish the love he had for Till, it just shows the tragedy of ALNST. Ivan is only human after all. And no matter what kind of mask he built for himself and what illusion of control he had over his life, when faced with the real, imminent possibility of losing Till, he crumbled and did something unexpected.

I have more to say about the Ivan and Sua parallels and how he finally understands her in the Confession comic etc etc but I think I've yapped enough.

I just don't like it when people try to mold the narrative because they're uncomfortable with an unconsensual kiss. It's meant to be painful and heartwrenching, a reflection on Ivan's one sided-feelings and his desperation at the moment —to be seen for the first (and last) time, to not be left behind, to convey his emotions in the only way he could when being seconds away from death.

After all the team confirmed that Ivan is clumsy with emotions and only knows to convey them in 'childish' ways (the nuzzling against his face, the picking fights with Till and teasing him).

I think some people like to think of the kiss as something purely calculated and selfless because it makes it more 'palatable', but in my opinion this take washes out Ivan's character and the flaws that make him just as human, vulnerable and complex as the rest of the cast. He was willing to throw away his life and his perfect image because he wanted something that badly.

[cum-villain]

(Just gonna copy-paste the thread here)

One thing that's kind of going through my head is what I've heard is in the recent patreon post. To Till, Mizi is his god, his kind salvation, while Ivan is someone he feels a range of love and hate and deep emotions

In other words, the unrealized ivantill truthers are right; Till did love Ivan, but the love was mixed with hatred, complicated painful emotions. With Mizi, it wasn't the same kind of love, I suppose more shallow, but in a safer, less painful way. A distant kind salvation.

Shallow is kind of the wrong word to use here though, it's not that they don't have a connection. They very much were friends, as shown in the mizitill scene in the end of round 7. But while his love for Mizi cradles his heart, Ivan's pierces and threatens to consume it.

So, while he did have a connection with Ivan, that connection wasn't as safe. Mizi was his god, not because he was closer, but because she was the figure of light that shined in his dark world, an idol he could worship and feel happy worshiping.

So. Ivan was someone he felt a range of emotions about, sweet and bitter, painful and kind. But more of the bitter, more of the painful. It really does make sense, Ivan doesn't emote normally, his kindest, tenderest moments were when Till wasn't looking.

But despite that, Till still cared. He didn't see everything, but it's not as though he was always turning his head. There were plenty of times Till cares and Ivan had his head turned, like when Till was hesitant about going back to anakt, but all Ivan saw was Till's leaving him.

It isn't that Ivan was in love and Till loved someone else, it's that they both cared, but could never find a way to bridge the gap. Ivan could never show his love in a way Till understood, and so Till could never feel safe putting his emotions in Ivan's hands.

And so, round 6 was Ivan trying one last time to show his love, but just as always, it was damaging, and Till couldn't truly understand it. (We all have to understand, kissing as romance really isn't something in the alnst world, as a certain comic explains.)

So, now we get to round 7. We all saw how Luka pretended to be Ivan to make Till despair, and that seeing Mizi again made Till break free and smile again but in a way that spelled his doom. I really think that encapsulates his whole deal honestly.

Because, the love he has for Mizi was doomed from the start, for several reasons. And, I kind of think he knew that on some level. The obvious thing is Sua being Mizi's god, but there's also the 'shallowness' I mentioned above.

Mizi was someone he cared about, certainly a friend, and he liked her in a certain way, but it was a comfortable love. A love he felt good about. And, certainly the love he felt was real. But the /connection/ they had would never be as strong as what he could have had with Ivan.

However, in Round 7, he had no time to process how he felt about Ivan's death, no time to process the feelings unrealized that now would never have a name. And Luka's manipulation took advantage of that turmoil. The mimicry of the kiss directly mocked it.

I agree with what a different user said, that what Luka takes advantage of isn't love, but loss. But, what is grief but love persevering? And what do you call it when you don't understand that it was love after all, what is it that perseveres?

That lost connection, that never truly blossomed and stayed sheltered in its bud, is what Luka was mocking. "Remember these sensations, remember what happened to this person? Remember the person who died in front of your eyes? What's in your head now? What do you feel now?"

Honestly, the question Luka is asking to provoke him is the same one we all have: Who was that person to Till? Sua was Mizi's god and love, Till is Ivan's love and obsession, but what was Ivan to Till? Come to think of it, that may be why we only see a flashback of the kiss.

Because the question asked is, "What do you feel about this?", but Till's head definitely isn't in the right place to think about it. He's blocking out any thoughts of what it might be, but the question itself makes Till pained enough for the provocation to have worked.

And, just in time for Till to not have to think about it. Just when he almost had to think about his complicated bond with Ivan, Mizi appeared, his god, his salvation. He smiled, not thinking of the question at all. Which is why Luka was upset, Till ignored the question.

But, in the end, that shallow connection wasn't enough; if he had sang with that deep connection in mind, he might have conveyed something that was enough to win points. But he sang with something more shallow in mind, something that wouldn't earn enough points. So he died.

[nutler--kleinja]

My depiction of the title “CURE” for alnst round 6.

the meaning of this “Cure”, isn’t really a cure. It’s not a direct one, but in actuality, it’s a very twisted cure; a way of realising everything wrong.

The “Cure” for ivan, was finally clearly expressing his feelings for till. Letting go of all his worries for the one he loves, and that way, he’s “cured” through death. he sacrificed himself for till, and he finally got to do something for him, and let him live as he wants.

That way, he could finally find the “cure” of his “sickness”, being his unrequited emotions for till. That way, his quote “shallow emotions” could be let go.

As for till, his cure, was letting go of Mizi and realising what ivan did for him.

it is quite obvious how much he likes mizi, though for him, it’s a less “deep” type of love, like Ivan’s. it’s more a “she’s so sweet, I want her”, type of love; or maybe, the thing he could be in love with was the concept of being loved. i want likes so ill be writing more about this is another post lmao ill send the tumblr link in the comments

By finally understanding that Ivan had liked him, he could finally realise the true extent of their relationship; even if you can’t tell clearly, it seems obvious to an extent that he’s very close to ivan, with this drawing from vivinos being the outright proof if it.

Many a time, there is something where people are in denial of their feelings, or don’t even realise their presence i can relate she was so nice and sweet too i miss her and that could be the case with till.

his “illness” was never understanding how much he really loved ivan, because Ivan’s form of expressing his emotions was through physical violence(beating him up), being obsessive, or just weird in general. So, it would be natural that because of this, till consciously tries to make an effort to dislike ivan can relate again

There’s a common trend in eyes with alnst.

Mizi and Sua in round one, who were singing for the sake of living with one another, had a passionate and innocent look in their eyes, almost glowing. You can see the light in their eyes.

Till in round 2 had a crazed but, yet again, passionate look in his eyes, showing how he was singing for his obsession or infatuation with mizi.

ivan in round 3 had a calculative yet as i said before, passionate look in his eyes, because of his love for till, while having to appease the audience he was performing for.

however, Luka in round 5 had a dead look in his eyes, to show how he didn’t have anyone to sing for.

Mizi’s eyes in round 5 had a glow, but the look in her eyes was dreamy and dazed, showing how she was still thinking about sua’s death.

Hyuna’s eyes in all-in didn’t have the usual glow to it, yet it was still lifelike in a way, showing how she was singing for herself and herself only.

Ivan’s eyes in round 6 were yet again, calculative, much more dead this time, but there was still a hint of light in it, showing how he was singing this last song for till’s sake, for him to win.

On the other hand, till’s eyes in round 6 were dead and misty, showing his suffering after mizi’s death, without any will left.

yet, after ivan’s death, till’s eyes had a distresssed look to them, yet at the same time, he had a glow of how he looked in round 2, when he was fighting for mizi.

His “cure” was realising everything about ivan, and hopefully in round 7, trying his best for him, so he himself could live on for the sake if ivan.

It’s less of an actual direct positive meaning of cure, but more of a roundabout way of passing the message; of a realisation of their own emotions, and finally letting go.

[pwippy]

something something headcannoning that ivan always touched tills neck instead of like his face or chest (for tills heartbeat or breathing) to analyze his vocal chords like he did with the others' emotions.. maybe this was to model his singing after tills since till was better at expressing his emotions through music (utte) rather than straight on communication 😐 he wanted to learn how to confess his love like till would 😐 so he could use it as a vehicle for catharsis and hope till would understand him in a last ditch effort

its like he goes for tills face if he wants to distract/comfort him but he goes for the neck if he needs to comfort himself. you could interpret the unlocking collar shot from round 3 as him *knowing* till would leave him and putting some sort of distance between his feelings. still, hes reaching for till so he had some vague hope it would turn out differently. on tills side every time ivan unlocks his collar that could be his own catharsis. emotional freedom because his main way of expressing himself (mouth + vocal chords) is freed

anyways you can apply that analysis to him moving his (left (guys go look at my other hand placement analysis ong frfr https://www.tumblr.com/pwippy/751805070639759360/minor-ivantill-details-hand-placement-and?source=share) hand from tills face to his neck in round 6 - "you'll be ok *so* i'll be ok" and its the same reassurance with the rest of his scenes

[atrophiedemotion]

differences in ivantill perspectives

hhh one of the reasons ivantill is so damn heartbreaking is because they're not on common ground At All in their ways of thinking and it limits their understanding of each other, especially on ivan's side.

i don't think till hates or dislikes ivan, and i could say a lot about that, but till seems to consider them friends or at least acquaintances. it's like his inner talk regarding ivan is "ivan is weird and annoying, but that's just ivan." it doesn't seem to really bother him, and even when it does he isn't really mean to ivan, especially as they get older. honestly in that new comic today i would've expected till to punch him and storm off, but his collar goes from red to orange in one frame and he just looks resigned.

ivan, on the other hand, doesn't seem to realize this. like, at all. he doesn't think they're friends and seems genuinely sad about it, considering the note he left till for graduation.

i honestly think this is because of ivan's way of learning and understanding the world, which is mirroring. there's no one to genuinely teach them 'how to be human' aside from the other children and ivan doesn't have the luxury of knowing any of that instinctively. that being said, ivan learns by example, and till doesn't fit any examples he's seen.

ivan's 'friendships' are seemingly all fake and for show, because ivan is not his real self with them. ivan's view of romance is his own feelings for till and, like for everyone else (lmao), mizi & sua. till fits none of these boxes, so he goes into the 'he must hate me' category, because he doesn't respond to ivan in any way he understands.

obviously he's more focused on the romantic reciprocation, and probably willfully ignores any indication of friendship, but their (presumably, in my opinion) deeper than surface level friendship also just doesn't seem to register to him. i also highly doubt he'd realize it even if till did have feelings for him. i don't think he does, but honestly they're on different enough wavelengths that i think ivan wouldn't have recognized it if he did. they just show it too differently.

i also don't really consider it either of their faults. yes, ivan is Doing It Wrong, but he literally doesn't know how to do it right. this is my hot take or whatever ig but i don't think some people realize how hard it is to understand human connection or experience empathy when you do not have the intuitive skills and how this relates to ivan. yes, he's showing his love in a way that till doesn't recognize as love because it doesn't look like it, but ivan is simply acting in line with his feelings.

it's tragic because there are situational issues and differences that prevent them from understanding each other. in a different world, another life, where they were both raised differently and could learn more about things they don't have a chance to here, i think things could've been different for them.

[pestilencesingsyouforward]

How did you feel about Luka winning.. I mean it’s obvious but. Also side note how do you feel about the hate he’s getting cause till died?

I’m going insane no one understands himmmmmmmm.

He deserved to win I swear!!! This is not me saying he is a good person or the other characters didn’t deserve to win/deserved to die. I’m saying that he had no real part in this show. It’s not his fault it was a choice between life and death and he chose himself. Would you not do the same? Wouldn’t you choose yourself over strangers? He didn’t grow up with these people! He already watched his old friends die in alien stage 49, why would he even be bothered to try and spare these random ah people. Would you even care at that point? To rebel? His ass is 30 years old. He’s the model doll for his owner, it’s instilled in him to fear him. He was awake for his branding, WHICH WAS ON HIS HIP, WHICH I ONE OF THE MOST PAINFUL PLACES TO GET TATTOOED, he was made to watch and hold his shirt up for it yall. All the other contestants seemed to be sedated for their branding, so why wasn’t he? His owner actively tortured him and his experimented on him, literally CUTTING OFF HIS BLOODFLOW TO SEE HOW LONG HE’D SURVIVE. The scars on his lower chest are known for being for surgeries that involve removing organs, the liver being one of them (I think) which adds to the blood experimentation as the liver filters toxins out of the blood.

Till didn’t deserve to die any more or less than Luka. I didn’t see anyone hating on Till for killing that random ass guy? NO ONE CARED??? yes I’m aware that he used manipulation and there recent trauma to his advantage, but it was to save himself?? I myself manipulated people out of fear and self preservation- but not because I’m a bad person, because I thought I still needed too. He needs to if he wants to stay the favorite, the doll, the most expensive human not on the market. No one in this show is innocent, but that doesn’t mean we should target one guy because “he killed our yaoi pair” and “was mean to our yuri girlie”

First of all Ivan literally assaulted Till??? Like bro Till did not like that man that way. Yes he cared when he died because they were friends and because he died for him. They never would have gotten together yall. As for mizi, what he did was because he needed the advantage. He watched her go head to head with another “perfect pet” and win. He could not afford to lose, nor win by a small margin. He needed to win to the point of approval of his owner.

Im gonna stop yapping now but the haters gonna hate fr

I LOVE MY WIFE

[celestialstage]

So. Thinking about Alien Stage and eye contact. (Warning for MAJOR spoilers!)

In the begining of each round, the contestants are always positioned the same way. Facing the audience, not each other.

This means that whenever contestants look each other in the eye, they have to go out of their way to do it, it’s purposeful.

Mizi and Sua don’t even make it a third of the way through their song before turning to sing to each other instead of the crowd. They turn at the same time, perfectly in sync. And when you see the way their eyes gleam when they look at each other, you can’t really blame them.

They’re just so completely full of love for each other.

But then there’s Round five, Ruler of my Heart.

Before the song even starts, Luka immediately move around Mizi and stares at her, forcing her to make eye contact with him. He circles her like a shark whilist Mizi passively sings background vocals, wishing she could be anywhere else in the world.

Mizi and Sua’s shared looks are distorted by Luka, forcing her into place. The same quiet act of intimacy is technically present, but there’s no love to be found here.

Mizi is a remarkably strong person for making as far as she did, and trying to resist against it. She thrashes against him dancing. She averts her eyes.

But in the end, Luka still manages to get under her skin.

This is the only moment when Mizi willingly looks directly at Luka, and as is the entirety of Ruler of my Heart, it’s a cruel reversal of what we see in Clematis. This isn’t two lovers who can’t resist the urge to just admire each other. This is a traumatized woman who’s been blatantly mocked for loving someone, and she can’t bare another second of it.

And then, there’s the song that broke the fandom’s collective heart. Round six, Cure.

Till and Ivan are very consistently framed off to the side of each other. Till can look at Ivan, and god knows Ivan is looking at Till all the time, but they cannot look at each other.

The first time Till and Ivan are shown looking directly at each other chronologically is when they’re little children, yet to have been adopted.

Connecting is simplistic when they’re this young. You’re lonely, I’m lonely, I don’t know you but I understand.

Things only really go downhill from there for these two.

[I’ve reached the mobile image limit, part 2 is right here.]

[keehllo]

MiziTill and IvanTill analysis.

— First, understand Mizi, Till, and Ivan’s character.

Mizi’s guardian must’ve contributed to her naivety as arts of her with her guardian seemed sweeter than Till and Ivan’s interactions with aliens. Till was constantly thrown around and treated like garbage as his guardian ENJOYS TORTURE. Ivan is also treated horrible which contributes to his pessimistic personality compared to Mizi.

Mizi had something Ivan didn’t: Optimism. That’s most likely why Ivan didn’t hate Mizi when it was obvious Till has an infatuation with her. “When she smiled at me, my heart was reborn” which is obvious, Mizi’s brightness attracts people and which is why she’s able to make friends very easily. Ivan knew Till needed that, one of his ways of wanting to make Till as happy as Mizi does is by telling him how horrible Alien Stage is and wanting to run away with him.

I forgot which animatic but it’s shown that Ivan never had a red dot in his pupils until he saw Till. That must’ve been his sign of attraction. This same red dot is seen in Till’s eyes as he runs away with Ivan, he’s happy — until he thinks of Mizi. He remembers Mizi and thinks of what horrible things they’ll do to her if he leaves. The red dot disappears in Till’s eyes.

— Second, Till’s struggle with attachment.

Till clearly struggles with attachment as seen with Ivan, which is confirmed by VIVINOS on her Patreon, saying: “Till has a deep love-hate attachment with Ivan” which is one of the evidences that Till actually struggles so much with how to react when someone shows care for him.

What makes Ivan’s care different from Mizi’s though? Why couldn’t he accept Ivan’s but he could accept Mizi’s?

Ivan was close to him. He was always around him and even if they did fight, they would still hangout. While with Mizi, Till failed to even build a relationship with her. Evidence being Mizi’s intimacy score with Till: “He’s so distant… does he hate me?” And this is because that outside of rebelling, Till writes songs. It’s most likely a coping mechanism for him to vent his feelings. You can see in one of the animations as Till is writing something, Ivan is right next to him. This can be used as a symbol of their closeness. Even if Mizi wasn’t there, Ivan was.

Because of Till’s struggle with healthy attachment, he couldn’t react properly when someone genuinely built a bond with him, but he could with someone who barely hangs out with him.

This is a sign of avoidant attachment. Till’s struggle in how he can show love. After all, how can someone who has never been shown love by his own guardian give love? He was never even taught what actual love is.

— Third, difference between idolization and crushes.

According to VIVINOS on her Patreon she claims that Mizi is a “fantastical figure” to Till. As stated before, they barely interacted as Till was almost always in his own world (rebelling or writing music). Even though Till knows and speaks to Mizi, they don’t even have a bond anywhere close to how Till is with Ivan.

When you don’t build a bond with someone, you only perceive them as a figure. There’s very little to perceive about them when you aren’t close with them. This is how Mizi’s naivety and brightness comes into play, she was everything that Till isn’t. She isn’t a pessimistic, traumatized jerk who hits his own friend (Ivan) just because he gets frustrated with them.

Because of his trauma, he wanted to feel that too. Till put Mizi on a pedestal. This is IDOLIZATION. It’s a way to cope, a form of escapism from his harsh reality.

How can I be so sure it’s that? You can see it in Round 6. Mizi, already going through Round 1, is traumatized. She’s seen the worst. In Till’s flashback, she pictures Mizi in her Anakt Uniform when she was still innocent.

Conclusion: Till does love Ivan, but because of his attachment issues, he didn’t acknowledge that.

[tndz12]

Just gonna ramble, so please feel free to ignore my nonsense. But feel free to interact, I need more people to discuss with… on that note.

Considering that round 6+7 happened on the same day, which first off weird since 7 is supposed to be the final. Like it would make since if round 5+6 were on the same day (since they are semifinals) and 7 on another day leading up to it.

But like for the aliens, how does that pacing work? Like how much time has pass since this season of Alien Stage? In what way would this be profitable for them, this “quick” entertainment? Especially when there are fan favorites from the aliens, for them to end a contestant like that???

Like we have my precious boi, Ivan. He’s literally a model, ambassador, has a bunch of sponsorships, and from my understanding his alien guardian is a pretty high ranking one. (My poor baby, I know with r7, it’s basically reaffirmed that he’s dead (ignoring the fact that people from patreon stated that it was confirmed a while ago) but pls let him be alive somehow unless that entails more suffering for him (which I can think of plenty ways it could go) in which case nvm leave him be, since technically the way it ended was nice end for his story…)

Then we have Luka, who the aliens love like crazy. Like you can hear the screams of the crowd when he first enters the stage in r5. Plus the fact that the aliens would also hold up signs for him (like “Prince”. Like this sad poor manipulative pathetic ass 30 yrs old of a man have no privacy and is also constantly under a lot of attention and scrutiny. (Granted this mf-er is still alive and well, considering that r7 was probably rigged/a trap)

Till was also a pretty intriguing contestant. One that they label as a “Super Rookie”. And like his alien guardian (I’m assuming at the very least) is constantly bragging about him and his talents. Like if they did rigged r7 and he had let them do that cause the death of his pet, that’s like a slap to it’s face?!??

Plus, weren’t they trying to promote having “human pets” despite the general alien public concerns of human rebellion? Like that’s why they had Alien Stage be a thing, to promote the pets. But now they are here setting up a trap for the rebellion to be caught on 4D…

Bruh idk

[ivanttakethis]

okay so hello first of all. second of all, thank you for all the color theory posts they are a good time. third: why do you like Ivan so much? I am an Ivan lover myself. He is my freak, my silly little guy, he spawns many of my late night ponderings but I will admit I am curious as to why you like him? Especially curious about what you consider Ivan "mischaracterization" because you are so opposed to it (I am as well though so like. i relate) anyways hope you are doing well!!

Hello fellow Ivan enjoyer! I’m glad you like my color theory ramblings 🫡

My answer got kinda long, so I’ll put it under the cut...

Part of the reason I like Ivan so much as a character is because I relate to him in a lot of ways.

Like, when he was younger, Ivan was quiet and not very good at expressing his emotions. So he had to fake/force them to fit in with the other kids.

I’ve talked about this art before, but the first time I saw it, I literally went:

“Oh. It me.” 🥹

I wasn’t as young as Ivan when I realized I didn’t quite express things as much as my peers did, but I’ve been there. I know what it’s like to have to perform to avoid being seen as weird.

My resting face is very neutral, which can look blank or emotionless to others, so when I’m around people who don’t know me well I have to put in effort to smile to avoid making them uncomfortable.

I kept seeing Ivan being mischaracterized as “emotionless” and that really rubbed me the wrong way. So that’s where my “#1 Ivan Mischaracterization Defender” title came from.

I talked more about my opinions on Ivan mischaracterizations in my Top 5 Worst Ivan Mischaracterizations post, if you’re interested in that.

Though for the most part, my title is just me being in a silly goofy mood lol.

Ivan is also just a super tragic character from pretty much start to finish.

The meteor scene. The unrequited love. Always chasing, never chased or acknowledged. Endless yearning. Black Sorrow. All of his self-deprecation. Thank you for being a victim of my shallow emotions.

His story really tugs at my heartstrings and I can’t help but root for him.

Not even to get with Till, necessarily. I just wish he could’ve found some happiness and reciprocity in his life, so he wouldn’t have thought he was so expendable. (Damn that’s really sad, anyways 😬)

I also like him because he’s a weird, silly little guy that I don’t fully understand.

Some of his motivations for the weird shit that he’s done are completely incomprehensible to me.

Why did he orchestrate that confrontation between Till and Mizi and his little wagyein buddy?

Why did he make a list of Till’s birthday presents every year just so he could (presumably) take them all??

Why did he lick Till’s blood off his fingers while making direct eye contact with him???

I don’t know. But I think that’s part of the draw. Ivan is like a puzzle.

I want to study him. I want to figure him out. I want to put him in a blender. You know?

He has bewitched me with his strange and somewhat unsettling behavior.

Thanks for the ask! I’m interested to know what you think of Ivan as well 👀

[redrandomposts]

That previous ask was from me (🎀) and I also had a second thought!!

which is what if till doesn’t understand he’s the kids dad until the kid is way older (like 5 or 6) and the kid starts showing off bits of his own personality or traits that aren’t present when the kid is little (Till assumes the kids light hair will darken with age but when it says grey some wheels might start turning)

also do u think they would have a girl or or a boy? (I’m thinking girl cause I think Till has big girl dad energy)

and for the sake of the thought experiment Till has started being referred to as “uncle till “ while helping take care of the kid (for additional pain on Ivan’s part- because they are kind of a family now! But not in the way he wants + complete brother zone for his relationship with till from his perspective) because he’s always around and taking care of her so he’s basically her family

and since in this concept they aren’t mated so till might start- oh I dunno going back on tour to help make money to give his favorite “niece “ everything she could ever want which means both their poor emotional systems are gonna be losing it being so far away from their almost mate :(

And also- since their set up is mostly sorted and longer term “platonic” in this timeline I think till might (in a bid to get his weird unidentifiable feelings out of his system ) starts up a consistent friends with benefits situation (which only serves to make their moments of separation worse)

and I dunno maybe a few years into the set up maybe Ivan could be faced with yet another kid on the way and till being home when he finds out (and will be for at least the next 6 months) so he has to figure out whether to break the news now- at a point so deep in he’s unsure if his relationship with Till could ever recover, fake another random father for the kid- or terminate it to prevent till from ever having to deal with it. (And I think like- Till kinda wants to get Ivan pregnant subconsciously so he keeps asking to have unsafe sex and Ivan can never refuse him anything)

I’m not sure what choice Ivan would make but they are all really interesting to think about!!

i give you an easy way out and you give me angst

this is why people say alien stage fans are allergic to happiness. (/pos? /hj)

anyways i think the best course of action is to give ivan pain because thats what you do to characters you love.

SIKE! I AM NOT LIKE THAT! i wanna give ivan the universe, made of love and sugar and fluff

so, yes, this could happen, but also:

->sua would absolutely beat up till if he was an in-and-out pseudo-parent, especially since the moment she saw the child she probably knew it was till's

->luka would...give till the side-eye of his life. he'd manipulate till by staying at ivan's whenever he can, forming an equally-close relationship with their child, and getting their child to call him father. yeah, he may be an omega, but hes alpha-ing better than till

->mizi would be the therapist mother friend and intervene

->hyuna... roundhouse kicks and a diss track should do it.

anyways till is going to learn how bad of an idea it is to do that before he can make it a solid routine. i believe in the rest of the alnst cast!

let me embrace ivan in a nice, warm, loving hug, you cruel monster (/hj)

if you really want that, though... (tw: miscarriage)

ivan gets into a weird rejected-omega state and is unsuitable to continue work, barely hanging on due to his little princess. he'd constantly be in his nest, mostly built with till's clothes, wondering where he went wrong. again and again, he'd wonder, each day till was away, each month till was on tour. till's songs would repeat on the speakers, and before long his pheromones would wane and disappear.

if ivan got pregnant in that state... well, his body wouldn't be able to handle it. till goes on a world tour before the bump shows, and ivan...he'd be worn out, desperately trying to keep the child, but he doesn't hear the wails he did with his first when he does give birth a month early.

it destroys him. he calls till as soon as he can, gasping breath after breath, tears running down his cheeks; "our baby's gone, till, they're gone, i couldn't give birth again. im sorry, im sorry, im so sorry, alpha."

their little princess is at their friend's house, waiting to hear if she got a little sibling.

till hurries to the hospital, sitting in an airplane for agonizing hours, and when he gets there he's informed that ivan will have extreme difficulty getting pregnant again, let alone giving birth.

i hope you're happy, 🎀. i hope youre crying so much because you just cant take the fluff i willingly give out!! (/j /hl)

fml what am i doing why am i so petty

[liquidstar]

Okay anyway what I understand about Hyuna and Luka's backstory so far goes like this:

The two of them were part of a trio of really close friends. Hyuna seemed to be closer with their third (unnamed) friend, possibly had feelings for him. Luka liked Hyuna and came onto her (at the very least tried to kiss her and was possibly being forceful or at least sudden about it) but she rejected him in some way. He blamed their other friend so the next time they saw each other they got into a big fight, where he ultimately killed him. It's hard to tell if that was 100% his intent going in, given that prior to this whole thing he seemed to be the more timid type that we were expecting from before his introduction, but either way he ended up murdering him and was smiling about it (his smile while bloody and beaten reminded me of his smirk after Mizi beat him up, knowing she'd also be killed). In any case I think that's the moment our Luka was born, something inside him completely snapped (either from the rejection or the murder) that might have been festering for a while given the whole alien stage system he's also in... We know the gist of it but not the details, and maybe we never will because they're not necessarily the important part. But yeah Luka's fucked up and I completely understand Hyuna's hang-ups.

The person she potentially loved, (or at the very least was close friends with, but given the themes of unrequited love and death and love=worship I'm believing it's the latter) was murdered right in front of her by her other close friend, for her. And from there they both went in completely opposite directions. Luka completely bought into the Alien Stage system, exploits it as much as he can while still being a pawn in it, and continues to hurt and kill through it- losing his humanity. Hyuna escaped somehow (I'm assuming before the proper Alien Stage competition, similar to how Ivan and Till almost did, and probably lost her leg in the process) and she became a revolutionary for humankind. Singing for herself and not for the aliens as we saw here. Retaking a uniquely human thing that has been commodified...

What I find interesting is that you can see their backstory as a dark version of the current generation of contestants. They also had plenty of heartache resulting from unrequited love, even though they're also friends. Things could have turned out like this for them too, but things are different now. Even though Sua has been killed (and this pain of Mizi's is one Hyuna can relate to) Mizi has literally been broken out of the Alien Stage cycle. About to crash the performance of the Ultimate unrequited love drama (The guy that loves her, and the guy that loves the guy that loves her lol) and they'll be able to come out of it for the better, together, I hope.

[whyiseverynametakenpls]

I like you

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Genre : fluff

Tw : none

Pairing : Ivan x Till (romantic)

Characters : Ivan, Till, Sua and Mizi

Story : Please don't like someone else

Info : Actor au, I know it's ooc 😔 but copium guys

"And cut! Great work, everyone. That's a wrap for today. You can all head to your dressing rooms to change, except for you, Till. Someone's looking for you," the director announced, gesturing towards the door before shifting his attention elsewhere. Till, already en route to the dressing room with the others, nodded and bid his farewells before swiftly making his way towards the door.

As the cast dispersed, Ivan paused and glanced towards the door Till had just exited. "You okay, Ivan?" Sua inquired, her head cocked to the side. "Oh, yeah, just fine," Ivan replied, shaking his head slightly before resuming his journey to the dressing room. "Hmm," Sua murmured skeptically as she followed suit, her thoughts lingering on Ivan's behavior.

Moments later, as Sua reached for her dressing room door handle, she hesitated. "There's no way... Right?" she muttered with a wry smile, attempting to dispel any strange thoughts before confirming them.

-----------------✧------------------

"Ivan? What are you-?" Sua's question was cut off by Ivan himself, his hand that was on the wall now Infront of her mouth forcing it to close. Sua let out a muffled hum before sending Ivan a confused look, asking him why he was leaning on the wall that way. Ivan only shook his head as he slowly put down the hand that was covering sua's mouth. Ivan gestured to look beside the wall, towards the corridor.

Sua, who was confused only nodded her head and took a peek at what Ivan was looking at before. Sua's eyes widened as she finally saw what Ivan had been watching the whole time. In the end of the corridor stood till and mizi talking. Sua let out a confused hum, trying her best to keep it low. Ivan only put his hands together, hoping sua would take the hint and just wait until he explains. Sua understood his plead and nodded, albeit a little hesitant.

"I like..." As till spoke those words, Ivan froze, he wasn't sure what to do now. He immediately sprinted to his changing room, slamming the door in the process. Sua chased after Ivan, no longer listening to both Mizi and Till. As sua entered Ivan's room, she could see Ivan sitting in the corner of the room, facing the wall.

Sua slowly closed the door and walked towards Ivan, her steps soft as to not startle Ivan. As she got closer and closer to him, she outstretched her hand and put it on Ivan's back, hoping that it could help him calm down a little. "Ivan... You like till, don't you?" As sua's words reached Ivan's ear, he flinched a little, scared of Sua's reaction.

Seeing that Sua hasn't moved, he slowly nodded. Sua sighed and sat down beside Ivan. "I'm not going to tell you to move on or anything, but I will tell you that there isn't much use of holding onto him like this." Sua shook her head. Ivan, who was hunched over the whole time slowly sat up properly and leaned on sua, clinging to the hope that she would provide some sort of comfort for him, which she did.

Sua's arm wrapped around Ivan's, bringing him closer to herself as she hugged him. "It's okay, let it all out." Sua said as Ivan's body started to shake, his eyes watering and tears started falling. "I don't know what to do..." Ivan said in-between sobs, it was clear how much he loved till.

Sua could only hold him, providing him what she hoped to be comfort as he cried.

-----------------✧------------------

As Ivan's tears subsided, Sua remained by his side, offering her silent support.

After a few moments of quiet comfort, Ivan finally spoke, his voice hoarse with emotion. "What do I do, Sua? I can't just ignore how I feel about Till."

Sua sighed, her brow furrowing with concern. "I know, Ivan. But sometimes, things don't always work out the way we want them to." Ivan nodded, understanding Sua's words, but unable to shake the ache in his heart. "But what if Till feels the same way? What if I'm just giving up without even trying?"

Sua reached out and gently wiped away the remaining tears from Ivan's cheeks. "Ivan, you have to be prepared for the possibility that Till may not feel the same way. And even if he does, it might not be enough to change the situation." Ivan's shoulders slumped as he absorbed Sua's words. The reality of the situation weighed heavily on him, but he knew that Sua was right.

"I don't want to lose him, Sua," Ivan whispered, his voice filled with anguish.

-----------------✧------------------

As more and more weeks passed, Ivan found himself caught in a whirlwind of uncertainty, despite his efforts to confront his feelings for till, Sua's sudden busyness became a barrier, throwing away any attempts at reconciliation. Each time Ivan asked sua to accompany him somewhere, Sua's schedule seemed to fill up with endless activities, leaving little to no room for anything really.

It was as if the universe was conspiring to keep them apart, prolonging Ivan's anguish with each passing day.

-----------------✧------------------

"Hey let's go to a restaurant nearby, I have some time" As those words left sua's mouth, Ivan immediately brightened up, his face basically beaming. It had been so long since Ivan had someone to talk to about anything, and he was glad that sua finally had the time to talk with him.

As they entered the restaurant, Ivan's senses were immediately on high alert. The silence and emptiness of the place sent shivers up his spine. Yet, he pushed aside his feelings and sat down, not wanting to waste this chance to talk with Sua.

"I'm sorry for being so busy this last month..." Sua mumbled, guilt laced in her words. "Nono, it's okay, you're an actress, I can't just expect you to have a lot of time." Ivan shook his hands, simply happy that sua finally had time to spend.

Suddenly, Mizi burst into the restaurant, her urgency clear as she beckoned Sua outside for a talk. "Sua, we need to talk, now." Mizi spoke as sua stared at her. "Oh... Uhm I'm sorry, Ivan, I'm going to talk with her for a little, wait for me, yeah?" Sua said apologetically as she walked out of the restaurant, disappearing into the night with Mizi.

Alone once more, Ivan's heart pounded in his chest as he braced himself for what was to come. And then, in a moment that seemed to freeze time itself, Till appeared in the doorway, his presence electrifying the air.

"I like you, Ivan," Till confessed, his words echoing through the room as he pushed a bouquet of flowers Infront of Ivan, hoping he would take it. "I've always liked you, ever since that time we met when we were kids."

Ivan's world basically tilted on its axis as he felt till's words wash over him. Ivan could feel his eyes start to water and blur. Tears welled into Ivan's eyes as he crossed the distance between them, pulling till into a tight embrace.

As they hugged, the door burst open, revealing both Mizi and Sua holding poppers and a sign, saying congratulations to both of them. Seeing this, Ivan immediately had this big smile on his face as he faced till. "I love you, till" he said with a hushed voice before he went for another hug.

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<- MASTERLIST

-> ivantill so real ⁉️

[derangedfujoshi]

Sorry. I’ve seen a lot of new fans where they haven’t checked those out yet, and it looks like you just recently got into ALNST. You said you made a post about it but I couldn’t see it so I asked, just in case. I’m really terribly sorry, I was genuinely curious and interested about what you think and I figured I should ask if you knew first to prevent spoilers or something before asking something related to it….I’m really truly sorry, could you please tell me what I should have done instead?

*deep sigh* dear Anny, sit down with me.

I get it, when I like something I want other people to know it as well as I do because I want for them to truly grasp the characters. But if you talk to complete strangers in a certain way, they'll think you're an annoying know-it-all like those people saying "oh you can't express an opinion on X until you have read all 16274858 volumes" which of course isn't your case here, but it sounded pretty close. Since I understand your genuine feelings tho, I can tell you how I would've gone about asking something like that

"Omg hi! New ALNST fan!! How did you like it? Just saw your Ivan post and it was very interesting! Oh idk if you know but there are some extra comics and arts and you can find them here and here! I really hope you'll like your stay💞 What's your favourite song??"

It sounds 0% know-it-all and 100% more excited, letting the other know about the thing you want to make sure they know about without making it sound like a sin if they don't. Because honestly, I've seen the comics, I've been following the artist since way before ALNST, they're not that deep. There's not that much extra lore to say it's indispensable and one can fully understand the characters by watching the videos and listening to the songs... If one has a bit of media literacy that is but that's my two cents, of course it's still fun to have extra tidbits.

Personally, my post about Ivan was focused on the type of love he had for Till because that's what I saw being more misinterpreted. I didn't focus on him also being soft when Till wasn't looking because that wasn't part of the point. But I saw his tenderness and I love that it was intertwined with his obsession. Truly chef kiss character mwhua

Anyway we're cool Anny, don't sweat it too much.