#its just like. so easy to manipulate the evidence to look like jons just been like continually belittled for the past year plus

[inklingofadream]

Heads up, I have several questions/suggestions for the Eye's Anti-Martin spiels that won't fit in one ask box (if you don't mind), and I have a bad hand so it'll be slow-going. The first is: do you think the Eye could/would communicate the technicality that Martin stabbed Jon, landing him in his coma? Asking, cause I figure the chances are that it can't actually play the tape, because Jon literally begs him to do it and Martin's sobbing. So the Eye's like, "It's just too terrible to show! Sob!"

Second, Martin was the one behind s4's intervention, which directly interfered with Jon's food supply, so would the Eye possibly make it look like Martin was intentionally starving him? This would also be a big deal since it directly interferes with Jon's relationship with the Eye and kept Jon from his full Archive potential. Plus, it might communicate to the Eyevatars that Jon truly does/did want to be closer to the Eye.

Last, would the Eye make the others around Jon s2-4 look just as bad? Cause It probably wouldn’t even have to edit some interactions! And most of them (Georgie? Who's that? Eye've never heard of her!) were even supposed to be servants of the Eye/Jon’s subordinates (shameful!) Clearly, the Eye is the only one who has Jon’s back, anyone who questions this is as bad as his former friends, and Jon’s interactions must be monitored!

Aaaah, I can't believe I forgot to mention the stabbing!!! That's like. One of the big things! Like

Eye: Y'know how Jon was stabbed

Eyevatars: yes

Eye: guess who did it

Eyevatars: o_o

Eye: it was MARTIN!

Eyevatars: 0o0 nooooo we been knew!!!

The rest of the gang don't get as much play time as Martin, because they are neither romantic rivals nor in the same reality as Jon currently, but clips like Every time Daisy makes Jon bleed (his sad lil voice when she has a knife to his throat... lyk if u cri evry tiem, we must band together to protect this precious boy. Talking Basira thru shooting her WHILE Daisy's gnawing on his leg... so brave, so strong) (and what was martin doing? NOTHING, just LETTING our beloved archivist get nommed on!) When Jon's awake and this gets brought up his first reaction is very *John Mulaney voice* we know, but hey!

The intervention scene gets some creative editing so that all the times when Daisy and Melanie try to butt in and remind Basira that Daisy did kill people, etc., are gone, and it just sounds like everyone uncritically accepts that Daisy, whose many crimes you have just listened to, is like, yeah, I'm innocent here, Jon saved my life at great risk to his own but that's no reason to bother defending him. Melanie and I are going to yell at him to shut up, now listen to all the sad, shaky Archivist breaths. The bit about his rogue statements not being recorded bc he doesn't bother starting the tapes himself anymore comes up with the Eye like "I was trying to protect him from Them 🥺" Especially with the bits there and other times with Basira saying that if Jon can't get a handle on it she'll Kill Our Precious Archivist (even as Jon tries to explain that it's not that simple, he does need statements to like. live. and the paper ones are a bit like putting him on a bread and water diet. and he's doing his best)

S4 in general is GREAT for if you want to woobify Jon to your shiny new cult, especially if you cut out all the little bits of people defending him or being nice, and your audience accepts taking statements as an unquestioned good. If you cut out all the lil bits of chilling with Daisy and having ppl laugh at his jokes and everyone else's perspectives, it's really just like. Continuous Jon abuse. Jon gives EVERYTHING to these people, saving them from all kinds of other entities, trying to cut off fingers for them, successfully losing ribs, swimming in misery and all they ever do is yell at him. Look how terrible they are, you should all lovebomb Jon as soon as he's conscious

Georgie gets hit HARD with the villain stick too, because former romantic interest for Jon AND having some legitimate criticisms of her behavior (there's some v good meta about how she kind of sucks at the "cutting Jon out of her life" thing, ducking into his office to look for Melanie and not leaving when he tries to end the conversation, saying she wouldn't take him to therapy instead of staying neutral, bad-mouthing him to Martin. Poking around for confirmation that she made the right decision/trying to justify her decision, and in the process driving the knife a lil deeper for Jon). And she has terrible taste, dumping Jon and dating that awful Melanie who STABBED him (rip to Jon, do not love his stats on "percentage of acquaintances who have stabbed me")

Honestly, depending on how much independent access Jon has to the tapes, he might start to question his own memory. Like, if he knows that the intervention was caught on tape, but the version everyone else heard didn't have Daisy trying to reel Basira in, did that really happen? I don't think it'd be enough to truly shake his feelings for Martin, but he'd definitely start to question whether the prevailing opinion of "Jon wouldn't know a healthy relationship dynamic if it bit him on the nose" is more correct that he thought.

[dathen]

you're quite right about this; I think the other thing that stands out to people is that Sasha was already on the "Gertrude was sharp, the Archives are disorganized for a reason, why?" thread, which Jon only got to like. I wanna say Season 2? you can correct me on that I'm sure. So she would've skipped a couple steps in the types of being manipulated, maybe got around to antagonizing Elias earlier. Which is interesting to think about!! (but wouldn't have saved her.)

Just to start, I don’t really see “person A has information person B doesn’t, so guesses the truth faster” is very strong evidence towards “Person A is more insightful and could avoid manipulation better.”  Jon had barely met Gertrude, and his only impression was “she doesn’t like me”--he came to the conclusion that she was incompetent from the massive mess he was left to deal with, but had nothing to contrast it against.  Meanwhile Sasha had met Gertrude enough for Gertrude to guess Sasha might be the next Archivist.  It’s even possible that with her expecting Sasha to be her successor, Gertrude dropped the purposeful “doddering old woman” act that she kept up (see: the persona she puts on as soon as Michael Shelley walks into the room in TMA 99). 

But!!  You reminded me of a little side ramble I’ve been wondering each time I hear “if [character] was the Archivist, they would have figured out [thing]”--I think that it’s harder to figure things out as the Archivist than as an assistant.  For one, the Archivist was getting the full brunt of Jonah’s custom-made misinformation, gaslighting, and manipulation, not to mention him lining up traumatize experience after traumatic experience just for them.  There’s also a very strongly-supported theory that the Beholding is “you who know all, but understand none”--that the deeper the Eye has its claws into someone, the harder it is for them to understand the big picture.  But theories aside, I honestly think that Sasha had just as much opportunity to look into her suspicions as an assistant as she would have as an Archivist.  I don’t think it’s coincidence that the most insightful character in the entire show by far is Martin.

Lastly, if Elias had promoted Sasha instead of Jon...I think he would have been in Sasha’s good graces!  He’s advancing her career, recognizing her talent!  The only reason she seemed to dislike him in canon is because he passed her over for promotion.  Jonah would have used a different approach with her than he did with Jon; I could see him leaning hard into a “only you are smart enough to save the world!  I will share this rare, secret information with you since you can be trusted with it!” approach.  For Jon, he leaned hard on Jon’s insecurity, but I think Sasha’s confidence and self-assurance would have been just as easy to exploit.

[thebluelemontree]

We know Sansa has a connection to the Seven through her wishes, but do you think the same could be said of the Old Gods? Also, do you see magic in her future storyline like the rest of her siblings? Thank you!

Of course, she has a connection to the Old Gods too. GRRM confirmed all the Stark children are wargs, even if Sansa’s abilities didn’t have the chance to manifest at the same time as her siblings since she lost Lady so quickly. Skin changing was already inherently in her and still is. It’s just that the ability is dormant for the most part. The connection between Sansa and Lady never weakened either. I already wrote about this here a while back, and it may have to do with Lady’s bones and hide being interred in Winterfell. She still longs for her, dreams of her, and even feels her direwolf’s presence close by sometimes. I don’t think she’s aged-out (if that’s possible) of ever skin changing an animal since she’s still younger than Robb and Jon when they received their direwolf pups. 

Sansa was also bonding with the old blind dog on the Fingers, but their time together was also cut short. Dogs are the easiest to skin change according the Varamyr prologue, so in theory Sansa could have started to have “dog dreams” if she’d stayed in physical contact with the dog. Her time in the Vale has had her separated from animals, but that doesn’t mean it will always be so. There’s always the possibility of skin changing a bird like a falcon perhaps.  

And ya know, she does have a greenseer little brother that she was always close to that might be able to help her grow her magical side. Maybe even break in an animal for her to make it easier to slip into perhaps? That’s a thing.  

Slipping into Summer's skin had become as easy for him as slipping on a pair of breeches once had been, before his back was broken. Changing his own skin for a raven's night-black feathers had been harder, but not as hard as he had feared, not with these ravens. "A wild stallion will buck and kick when a man tries to mount him, and try to bite the hand that slips the bit between his teeth," Lord Brynden said, "but a horse that has known one rider will accept another. Young or old, these birds have all been ridden. Choose one now, and fly." -- Bran III, ADWD.

I don’t see any evidence that the door is permanently shut on her skin changing something eventually. 

But if you mean does she have a connection to the Old Gods through prayer, the answer is yes too.

The night the bird had come from Winterfell, Eddard Stark had taken the girls to the castle godswood, an acre of elm and alder and black cottonwood overlooking the river. The heart tree there was a great oak, its ancient limbs overgrown with smokeberry vines; they knelt before it to offer their thanksgiving, as if it had been a weirwood. Sansa drifted to sleep as the moon rose, Arya several hours later, curling up in the grass under Ned's cloak. All through the dark hours he kept his vigil alone. When dawn broke over the city, the dark red blooms of dragon's breath surrounded the girls where they lay. "I dreamed of Bran," Sansa had whispered to him. "I saw him smiling." -- Eddard V, AGOT.

It might be something that Sansa dreams of her greenseer brother in the godswood after they’ve received word of Bran awakening from the coma where his own third-eye was opened by the three-eyed crow. If this scene isn’t a glimpse of the future in ADOS, I’ll eat my hat. 

Sansa is a person of faith who observes both her religions, albeit for a time she favored the aesthetics of her mother’s faith more than her father’s.  

She prayed in both the sept and the godswood for her father, unfortunately to no avail on that one. In the crisis of her captivity, she makes more space for the Old Gods in her religiosity.   

By the time she reached the godswood, the noises had faded to a faint rattle of steel and a distant shouting. Sansa pulled her cloak tighter. The air was rich with the smells of earth and leaf. Lady would have liked this place, she thought. There was something wild about a godswood; even here, in the heart of the castle at the heart of the city, you could feel the old gods watching with a thousand unseen eyes.

Sansa had favored her mother's gods over her father's. She loved the statues, the pictures in leaded glass, the fragrance of burning incense, the septons with their robes and crystals, the magical play of the rainbows over altars inlaid with mother-of-pearl and onyx and lapis lazuli. Yet she could not deny that the godswood had a certain power too. Especially by night. Help me, she prayed, send me a friend, a true knight to champion me . . . -- Sansa II, ACOK.

I don’t think Sansa ever really turns away from her belief in the Seven to embrace the Old Gods as much as some claim. It’s the Seven she prays to during the Blackwater and the Mother she invokes when she sings for Sandor Clegane. She wants to light candles in the sept to ask the gods to protect Margaery and Loras. It’s more that she’s disillusioned with some of the earthly institutions and that causes a momentary flash of anger at the gods for (in her mind) never hearing her prayers. 

When she’s in the Eyrie, a place devoid of spiritual connection or comfort, Sansa feels the pain of loss of both her religions.

It was the old days she hungered for. Prayed for. But who could she pray to? The garden had been meant for a godswood once, she knew, but the soil was too thin and stony for a weirwood to take root. A godswood without gods, as empty as me. -- Sansa VII, ASOS.

Even the gods were silent. The Eyrie boasted a sept, but no septon; a godswood, but no heart tree. No prayers are answered here, she often thought, though some days she felt so lonely she had to try. -- Sansa II, AFFC.   

During this period of time, Sansa’s faith has taken a real beating from being manipulated and coerced into being a part of Littlefinger’s crimes. Cynicism and corruption appear to be winning for the time being as Littlefinger rises and succeeds in the Vale. The presence of spirituality in her inner dialogue has grown ever more faint and weary; however, as I’ve shown above, a restoration of faith is likely as she progresses toward Winterfell and reuniting with her siblings. Does that mean she will begin to embrace the Old Gods (and magic) and to let go of the Faith of the Seven? Maybe, we have to wait and see. Or it’s possible she expands her consciousness to accept more of both in her life. 

Martin is a lapsed Catholic and atheist himself, but he never treats Catelyn or Sansa’s religiosity with the Seven as a joke or as less than religions that have demonstrable magic attached to them. I think it helps to keep in mind GRRM’s position on the nature of the relationship between characters, religion, and magic:

“Well, the readers are certainly free to wonder about the validity of these religions, the truth of these religions, and the teachings of these religions. I'm a little leery of the word "true" — whether any of these religions are more true than others. I mean, look at the analogue of our real world. We have many religions too. Are some of them more true than others? I don't think any gods are likely to be showing up in Westeros, any more than they already do. We're not going to have one appearing, deus ex machina, to affect the outcomes of things, no matter how hard anyone prays. So the relation between the religions and the various magics that some people have here is something that the reader can try to puzzle out.”

[that-soft-earth]

I’m up to MAG102 in my relisten, part way through Season 3, after Jon has been kidnapped by Nikola and found out a lot of stuff about the Unknowing. He knows that all the Entities have a ritual, and since Gertrude was trying to destroy the Archives, that’s probably the location of the Eye’s ritual. And he knows that he and his assistants are in a double bind, where helping Elias means helping the Eye, but resisting him, whether moving against him or simply by refusing to work, only leads to him making them suffer and bringing them back in line. They really have no way out. Here is one potential play Jon could make, though it’s massively risky and likely to fail, but it’s just a fun hypothetical. Jon says to Elias “I know what you’re doing. I know what your plan is.” and maybe let him sweat a bit (though you’re not going to get anything out of him that way cause he’s too good at mind games, but we like to see him suffer)

and then going along the lines of “All of the powers have rituals, so that means the Eye has one too, but I think I know what you want to do with it. You really are on our side, as much as you have horrible ways of going about it. Because the Entities feed on fear, and we’re most afraid of the unknown and unseen. Fear loses its power with understanding. You’re not just planning your ritual to serve the Eye - you’re trying to save the world from the Entities by unmasking them and breaking their power. And I’m in, even though I hate you. I’ll help with your ritual.” All of this, of course, just being lies. Just pretending to go along with Elias to find out more about the ritual and what Elias’ actual priorities are. And Elias would probably agree that the assistants shouldn’t be let in on the fact that Jon is working for him, because they’d never go along with it, so at least Jon doesn’t have to pretend to not hate Elias when someone else is present, and doesn’t lose the others’ trust entirely. And then Jon, once he figures out how to pass messages without Elias seeing, can reveal to the assistants that he’s now basically a double agent, and get them on board with him to take down Elias, because goddamn is he going to need help. Figuring out what he can and can’t see would be tough, too. Jon could fake evidence of another assassination plot, but would risk revealing his own motivations too. And Elias tends to wait until the last possible moment to act, so it wouldn’t be easy to test your theories. However, Jon is probably not powerful enough at this point to stop Elias looking inside his mind, or just Knowing something that exposes him, and if Elias figures out his game at any point it’ll be for nothing. Or just not being a good enough actor (yes Jonny is a very good actor but Jon Archivist probably isn’t) and Elias figuring out what he’s doing even without the Eye powers, just by being a very experienced Scheming Bastard. And even if he buys it, Elias would probably withhold as much as possible, as long as possible, out of caution. And, when you’re EXTREMELY TRAUMATISED FROM A BUNCH OF MORTAL PERIL, the complex thought functions of your brain are literally shut down, you are in no place to be putting together all those pieces and making complex plans. And Jon is more worried about the Unknowing and just hoping the Eye ritual will be far enough away that he doesn’t have to worry about it, not realising that he’s already on that path and needs to intervene soon. There’s no damn way I’d expect anyone to cope with that level of chronic dread and trauma with almost zero support and also be able to play a high risk double agent game against a Machiavellian clairvoyant whose powers they don’t even understand. Also, the Archives staff have been turned against each other by the events of the previous seasons. I don’t think Elias necessarily orchestrated that beat-by-beat since he can’t See the future, but obviously he did deliberately keep them fractured and distracted, so the times he intervened vs didn’t intervene with other Entities’ attacks was done with an eye to (haha) maximum disharmony, keeping the Archives crew divided and isolated. That’s my theory on why he picked Martin to work there - not because he knew exactly how things would play out, but just knowing that Martin had enough insecurities and personality clashes with the others to be a useful pawn to move in any direction, however things played out. He could probably have predicted Jon being annoyed and mean to Martin and then being guilty about it later once his assistants were being put in mortal peril. He probably had no idea they would both fall for each other, which did somewhat mitigate their total isolation, but actually just gave Elias another convenient way to manipulate Jon by putting Martin in danger. He basically planned the broad strokes of the whole thing, but also left plenty of manoeuvrability in the details. So uh... if you want to put yourself in Jon’s shoes, good luck with that. Hindsight, as they say...

[player-1]

Anyone who’s been in the TMA fandom (or those who understand the bare minimum of the story) know damn well that whatever was going on with Michael D. Stortion and Gabriel/Worker-of-Clay was not just a simple Avatar/Entity partnership. No, in the twisted timeline of the Spiral itself, the Armageddon arms-race pales in comparison to the romantic tragedy subplot those two had long before Jon and Martin were in the picture.

(This is also going to be a long one, and with some MAG 101 spoilers, so buckle on in...)

Here’s what I mean:

Gabriel (or in this case, Gabe) works with Neil Lagorio (Web aligned special-effects dude) in the mid 1900′s on their first movie The Labyrinth of the Minotaur. Unfortunately for him, Gabe quits in 1972 just as the movie was released. 

Not much is known of this time after 1972 up until the dreaded sculpting class in 2004. Speculation-wise, Gabriel might have been corrupted by the Flesh during his movie-making times or earlier before he came into contact with the Spiral.

Reasons: -The Spiral connects with the unraveling of reality, question one’s sanity and eventually “spiraling” into insanity. -The Flesh, in its literal sense, connects to the fear of people or animals being killed for meat; even the appearance of flesh/bone being twisted, bent, or butchered. But it can also connect on a emotional level, such as being viewed weaker than others, mostly relating to a person’s body image. That’s also the reason why the nature of his death is completely unlike the Spiral simply letting him fade out of reality. -Gabriel displays more Flesh-like qualities in his appearance and work up until the end of MAG 126. He doesn’t want people to judge him by appearance alone (even if his entire body is made up of clay) but he makes up for it with his unassuming personality and amazing talent. In a literal sense, he wants to mold himself into the kind of person that gets praised for his clay-making abilities, not just from his creations alone.  

[Enter Ｔｈｅ　Ｄｉｓｔｏｒｔｉｏｎ: Stage Left] Of course, while there’s no evidence on how, when or why the Distortion would target him specifically, but there is one thing. Compared to all the other Spiral avatars and fear-aligned creatures, they all used to be humans in the past. The Spiral by nature is to cast aside their humanity and submit to the nature of insanity. But since most of the Spiral avatars either faded out of existence or just refused to do anything ritual-wise, how was it supposed to create a new world if all they ever do is destroy? It adopts an artist, of course. There’s nothing more chaotic than the struggles of a budding sculptor such as himself. But while that may be a convincing argument for the Spiral to get Gabriel to join the Dark Side, there could be more to convince him that it’s worth following the unknowable being of delusions. Long story short, there was no reason for Gabriel to judge himself so poorly if he knew how to reshape the world to how he sees fit. it would convince him that, like the archangel he’s named after, he could show the world the coming future; twisting the laws of reality so that there’s no room to judge how something should be right or wrong, imaginary or real.  As if they were said from the Lord himself, Gabriel heard the Distortion’s tell him about a new world and finally found inspiration in them.

Then comes the sculpting class.  It’s worth noting that, even with the angel symbolism for Michael and Gabriel, it could be implied that Gabriel is also a goody-two-shoes Christian boy who regularly attends church, as evidence of Michael having knowledge about Mass in MAG 20, assisting the Flesh in driving Father Edwin to cannibalism (so the Flesh and Spiral have an interesting partnership, huh?).  Besides that, this is where Gabriel takes the spotlight. From Deborah’s point of view, he was a strange little man from the beginning; eyes always jutted out of his face, appearing right in someone’s personal space and disappearing just as fast, and of course, his works of clay. (Also a random headcanon just because: Gabriel may be afraid of water, either because his entire body being made of clay, and since you need water to help shape the material, he does not want to get it melded into his own flesh. Could also be the reason why he has short and greasy hair, cause he would practically melt into a puddle if he was unfortunate enough to get wet.) And apart from Deborah and her friends’ growing discomfort over Gabriel in general, he’s just vibing in the back of the class, trying to make a shape for the unknowable form of the Distortion. And the second Deborah inadvertently gives him a break from his artist’s block, he quite literally takes control of the class; switching over the biweekly schedule it was before into every week, and even manipulating the space of the classroom to further support his artistic needs. 

“Ray told us the lesson was ‘faces.’ I put my hand up to say that sculpting faces was probably a bit advanced for where we were in the course, but he shook his head, and said that we were… a lot more talented than we thought. He said the key was that faces were twisted. All faces were twisted on the inside, and all you had to do was reach into the deepest part of yourself and put that twisted on the outside of the clay, and as soon as you can scream you’ll have your own face staring back at you.”  (MAG 126)

This is also the key to the Spiral itself. With Gabriel’s assistance, he will be able to let the spiral to insanity move in reverse, create the physical manifestation of that fear instead of letting it collapse and destroy itself. And in that lesson as well, Gabriel finally creates a fitting image of the Distortion...A door, the physical entrance to insanity itself.

Then comes the final stretch in Sannikov Land, the nonexistent island that was said to exist between the years 2009 and 2011. And as Michael D. Stortion explains in MAG 101, was the perfect place for their ritual, The Great Twisting. After everything Gabriel had done to appease his good “friend”, The Distortion seemed extremely invested in the Worker of Clay at that point. Nevermind the fact that its telling Jon how its identity was stolen away from Michael Shelley by merging with the Distortion, but there’s more to this origin story.

“Michael was protective of the frail old woman he believed her to be. So… so delicate, so forgetful, yet gently wise. He cared for her. He trusted her. And she fed him to me. She made him to destroy our transcendence. And she did not hesitate.” “And it was me they sought to stop. Me and the others of It-Is-Not-What-It-Is. Our Great Twisting. The-Worker-of-Clay had laboured for decades on that contorted, impossible edifice of doors… and stairs… and falsehoods… and smiles. A thousand staring morsels stood, and not one of them believed themselves sane to look upon it. And in the centre, the door that would open to all the places that were never there, was me.“ “Perhaps I should have realised what was happening; seen those two lonely figures approaching me, but I cannot tell you the existential joys of truly… becoming. Of an entireness finally crossing the threshold into your self. So ecstatic was my completeness, I did not even hear my own door creak open.“ “Even sharper than the joy of becoming is the agony of being opened and remade. To have your who torn bloody from your what, and another crudely lashed into its place. To become Michael. And to do so at such a crucial point in our Twisting, in our becoming, well of course it destroyed it. The impossible altar collapsed. The-Worker-of-Clay tore out his veins to dissolve himself in crimson mud. The others of us were cast to all the places that aren’t; some have still not found their way out again...My very existence tied to my pointlessness. Wearing my failure as the very fabric of my being. Reduced once again to feeding on the unsuspecting and confused. That is who I am.“ (MAG 101)

Even if all of this was to explain how the Distortion became the being it is in the series, it’s easy to see how overjoyed it was during the ritual. All that the Spiral ever did was bring the sense of unreality and paranoia unto people for ages, only breaking down the mind until they eventually spiral into oblivion. It wanted to be something, it wanted to make something twisted and nonsensical from the world, to shape the world itself to the nature of insanity. And after all that time, no matter how many avatars it had in its control, Gabriel was the only one who began creating the ritual. Even if it was for an ulterior motive, The Distortion was pretty giddy as Gabriel worked for years on end to create the meaning of insanity; to create something that the Distortion saw as the perfect vessel for itself. And even as it was explaining it, with all these feelings of joy and ecstasy and very human thoughts and emotions, this was before it was forced to become Michael. So much for not being bound by human nature, huh? But it’s pretty ironic that, as the embodiment of delusions, insanity and lies, it never considered the idea of having an avatar that could make something out of that chaos. Even if the Distortion was explaining how Michael-not-Michael Shelley came into being, it also can be interpreted as Michael just yearning for his best Avatar so far.  So instead of “I’m going to tell you my entire backstory.”, it’s more like “I’m going to tell you how a nosy old woman and her idiotic assistant ruined my chances to be with my Avatar of the Decade who may or may not be my boyfriend.”

In conclusion, Gabriel AKA The Worker of Clay AKA Igor with an art degree became the Hands of the Spiral because the nonbinary embodiment of delusion (who is also a door) gave a miserable struggling artist a shot of self-confidence (and a shot out of the Flesh’s control), eventually becoming its #1 Boyfriend Avatar of all time, and is the only person that would make the “hates gender and existence itself” Distortion yearn for years after his tragic death.

Takes notes people, this is what peak performance looks like.

[hibibun]

Smoke and Mirrors

Series: The Magnus Archives Pairing: Elias Bouchard/Jonathan Sims Summary: Elias offers to help Jon quit smoking. He doesn't particularly feel that strongly about it, but when presented with another incentive, Jon finds himself going along with it anyway. for jonelias week day 2 - manipulation & caretaking Notes/Warnings: Pre-Canon, Manipulation, Smoking, Dom/sub undertones AO3 CH1 - ?

It starts with a harmless, albeit likely patronizing, observation.

“That’s a nasty habit.”

Jon’s eyes flick up and away from the hand steadying his lighter, the smoke already starting to drift off the end of his cigarette. He’s used to such comments. Generally, people are even worse about it, go on about how he’s polluting the air and so on—hence, why he’s even on this side of the building, which has more or less been claimed by the other smokers at the Institute.

However, he’s pinned by the fact the words came from none other than Elias Bouchard, Head of the Magnus Institute and currently his boss’s boss. He finishes his inhale, carefully manages his exhale without it sputtering into the coughs his rapidly beating heart want him to make. Evidently, Elias doesn’t smoke or approve of it, which makes Jon wonder if he simply comes out here to make such comments.

“I’ve been meaning to quit,” Jon shares a bit defensively, though it has been a half-hearted thought with even more abysmal attempts. He’d never really been one to handle stress well and seemed to come back to it no matter how many days he’d managed to avoid lighting one. It doesn’t help that in general his attempts to find anything of use or lucidity at the Institute have only ended in fairy tales and irritation.

“I can help, if you’d like,” Elias offers and there’s something in his tone Jon can’t identify that makes him uneasy. Reminds him of why exactly the remark he’d made managed to bother him.

Lately, if Jon isn’t mistaken, Elias has taken an interest in him. In his arrogance, he would like to think it had something to do with his work, though the reality is it’s doubtful anything he’s done as a mere researcher would be enough to catch the attention of the head the Institute. No, the exchanges they have more rely on things expressed during his initial interview that he’d put out of his mind. Considering how busy the man usually is, he hadn’t been sure whether to chalk up the interlude between their meetings to be one of sudden disinterest, or if he had been actually dealing with other matters. It comes as a strange relief that the latter appears true, though as usual, he is uncertain as to why.

Either way, needlessly, Jon has impressions on the mind. And while he does not believe in the idea of changing yourself for approval, he also can’t deny that it would be an utter shame to lose this man’s attention over something as simple as a cigarette. Against his better judgment, though, ‘Would it really be such a bad thing if he quit?’ Jon wonders—the stick in his hand steadily wasting away to ash.

“How do you propose to help?”  

Wordlessly, Elias holds a hand out, expectant. Jon stares at his hand, then up at him.

“May I have the rest of what you have on you? I wouldn’t be so cruel as you force you cold turkey quit as it isn’t always safe, but I can help in moderation.”

Hesitantly, Jon digs in his pocket and drags the pack out. He places it in Elias’s waiting palm, trying to ignore the momentary brush of their fingers. Next, he asks him about his habits. About how many does he burn through a day and when, before carefully counting out how many he thinks he should have between now and the next time they meet.

“I cannot make you stop entirely, but I would be delighted if you manage some restraint. Tomorrow, if there are leftovers you refrained from smoking, I have a surprise in mind. If you cannot manage it, well, then there’s always next time, but this is a good starting point wouldn’t you say?” Elias asks rhetorically, and Jon feels strange looking at his smile. Intrigued at what he possibly thinks would be a worthwhile surprise. He licks his lips and lets himself have a puff before the whole thing burns out, using the excuse that he needs to exhale to look away from Elias and his odd smile.

“I’ll do my best I suppose, if you’re that serious about it.”

“Excellent,” he hears Elias say, but doesn’t look at him, fearing what he might see.

                                                               -

Of the seven handed back to him, there’s only one he has to give. Jon had almost used that one too—forever a victim to sleepless nights and itching for something that might put him at ease.

Still, Elias placates him and they repeat the same exchange. Jon hands him his new pack, unopened, and Elias counts out the next set he’s allowed. It’s difficult to read his expression again as while he had at least one to give, something about the exchange still leaves Jon feeling like he’s disappointed him. Elias doesn’t say as much, but it strikes him like it’s true anyway.

“While your progress is slower than I might have anticipated, I’m a man of my word.”

He digs through a drawer in his desk momentarily, before bringing out a stack of papers.  

Jon stares at it suspiciously, unsure how it is much of a surprise at all. It mostly just looks like… work.

“Feel free to read it here or take it with you. It’s a copy anyway, so you may do what you like with it, but I think it may be of some interest.”

After another moment of hesitation, Jon takes the stapled packet, glancing over the front to confirm it is indeed a statement. He must make a face as Elias laughs.

“I promise it isn’t another assignment. I just would like you to read it and maybe share your thoughts.”

His eyes are already wanting to skim over what it is that Elias would think is interesting to him. With a stiff politeness that was beginning to feel silly given their current arrangement, Jon nods shuffling the papers closer to his chest and stands.

“I suppose I’ll see you tomorrow then.”

Elias doesn’t betray another hint of what it might be and is suspiciously business like in his dismissal. Their meeting had hardly reflected that, but it isn’t something Jon intends to comment on. Whatever was going on, the answers might already be in his hands and with a bit of frustration, he knows he’ll have to wait until the evening to really dig into it. He can only hope next time he’ll garner some kind of understanding.  

                                                              -

He isn’t sure if he’s smoking because of what he read, or because he doesn’t want to see what else Elias has for him. Either way, by the time he’s crushed the butt of his last cigarette into the ashtray his stomach is swimming with a mixture of relief and regret. He’s lying a little when he says he doesn’t want to know more—it’s the whole reason he even started working at the Institute in the first place. A fact Elias apparently bothered to remember from his interview. It’s terrifying though, the reality it could be real and not simply a fabricated tale that has an easy to stomach explanation. Something he’s spent a long time trying to convince himself of, even while knowing himself the supernatural must exist.

Lying farther away on top of all those issues is the root of what started this all. He’s thoroughly swallowed his fear in smoke and will have no spare cigarettes to give tomorrow. It hasn’t done anything for how scared he feels, and worse he loathes the dread piling heavier at whatever signs of disappointment will be waiting on Elias’s face.

Or maybe, there won’t be anything there at all.

He still doesn’t know why Elias is doing all this, and he even admitted quitting won’t be easy.

It isn’t the first time he’s had a dream about the statements he’s investigated. Even if he steadfastly denies the claims and feels justified as he comes up with nothing for many of the cases assigned to him, certain instances in the investigation or in the initial tales themselves if the giver is a good storyteller are enough to get to him when he sleeps. He always feels a little silly for that in the morning—writing it off as an over active imagination and a life too focused on work.

Still, this dream surprises him for its sheer vividness compared to the others.

In front of him is a familiar parlor full of comfortable looking couches, some with hand-embroidered cushions, plants tastefully decorating its corners, and a vast amount of paintings taking up almost all the available space of the walls. He has never been in this room. Never seen it, but it’s nostalgic—the type of room you’d expect in a period piece drama or at a grandparents’ home.

The words filter in, and the scene shifts. There is a woman now seated at one of the settees, her gaze untrustingly glancing about the room. The room is empty otherwise, only with an entrance way into it from the front hall, and a side door leading to another part of the house.

The woman reaches for her purse, makes a move to open it before sighing and changing her mind.

She was running late. It was a bit odd, and I was starting to get a little antsy. I hate being in that room in general, but, well, it was hard to request waiting somewhere else politely. I mean the poor old woman was pretty much on her own—I just wanted to check in like I did every Tuesday afternoon, and then be on my way. Really there wasn’t anything wrong with it. When you got past the decorations… it was actually rather cozy.

Wildly, the woman twists around at the large family portrait hanging just behind her seat. There wasn’t anything particularly odd about it. A big family of six, stiff and bunched together, neither smiling nor frowning. Simply existing. Staring.

What I didn’t like was how narrow it was. How little space it felt like was actually in the room; and worse you… when you were in there by yourself, the pictures had a weird sense to them. I can’t explain it. It just felt like they were watching you.

She quickly looks away and takes a deep breath. Then, she stares directly ahead. Jon panics, feeling like she is now looking directly at him, but her expression quickly breaks down into anguish and terror. Fear clear across her face, she whips her head instead to the other side of the room now and fixates on a door there. Shakily, she raises and rushes toward it. The door hadn’t been there before, and the moment it closes, isn’t there at all.

You have to understand; I know it sounds crazy, but it was the only thing that felt right at the moment. I-I think I knew the door wasn’t there before. I had been in that room a million times before, I knew pretty much every inch of it because it was so horrible to be there, but that’s why I had to go through it. I just wanted to get away from all those creepy eyes staring at me—

Jon cannot see inside the door—Trisha Wellen was unable to describe properly or in any coherent manner what was beyond that door. Just that it felt like she was stuck there for a very long time, until suddenly she wasn’t several days later. What terrifies Jon more though is the undeniable truth that he had been one of those eyes behind the paintings, and despite knowing everything in her statement did nothing.

It was a dream. Ms. Wellen was shaken, given her statement, but it and the follow up were enough to scare him, clearly. The fact she has been listed missing for a little over a year as well doesn’t help matters. There is nothing he could have done to help that woman as the event in question happened two years ago and it was just a dream.

He is out of cigarettes and feels cold.

                                                              -

“Why did you give me this?” Jon starts their conversation, by dropping the statement back on Elias’s desk, maybe a tad harsher than intended. He doesn’t address the actual reason for these meetings first, and based on Elias’s expression, he finds that awfully amusing.

“Now then, irritability usually doesn’t crop up until after a few days of deprivation. I know you’re better than that Jonathan,” Elias tilts the conversation in a different direction purposefully. Jon feels pinned under those eyes, accusing him of weakness in what the other knows is an unfair assessment.

“You know exactly what has me ‘irritable’,” Jon starts, his eyes flicking away again, but only to land on a series of portraits of the previous heads of the Institute. He shivers involuntarily remembering the words that brought him in here. When he can look at Elias again the man is still staring at him as if sizing him up. It’s difficult to tell whether the reaction he’s displaying is one that feels actually reasonable or whether he’s somehow failed whatever test this was supposed to be.

“Please, sit,” he directs, the words feeling more like a command than a polite suggestion. Once Jon is obedient in the matter, he continues speaking.

“Let’s try this again. How are you feeling this morning, Jon?”

“I’m fine, just…” he almost admits he’s unnerved, maybe worried, “confused. I haven’t ever seen a case like this. It’s jarring to see something that might be credible I suppose, but who knows? I certainly have no way to contact Ms. Wellen about it. I can only assume it has some truth to it because I can’t fathom another reason you’d show me it.”

The why still lingers heavy in his throat, but considering Elias’s reaction when he’d opened with that he isn’t sure he’ll get that answer. From the way he’s looking at him, it must be true though, as frightening as that reality feels to accept.

“Does it discourage you?”

Jon isn’t sure which aspect of their arrangement Elias is referring to with his question. He was never particularly dead set on quitting smoking to begin with, merely went along with it out of curiosity, and the vague notion that he knows it would be better for him. If he’s talking about what he came here to find, then that’s a more complex answer.

He isn’t discouraged, so much as sent back spiraling to things he doesn’t want to admit. All along, he’s known that these things exist in the world and that even if his own encounter felt so brief, he couldn’t be the only one to have an experience like it. Denying that for so long simply felt easier. Bearable.

“No, no I need to know… just surprised to see something that didn’t feel fabricated.”

“I told you it would be a surprise. If you’re still interested, I assure you there are more in the Institute if you look hard enough. For now though, let’s get you sorted out.” Seamlessly, Elias changes the subject once again and waits patiently for the same exchange they’ve been making. He clicks his tongue when Jon has nothing to offer him from yesterday, but dutifully counts out the amount, taking one less than he’d given the day before, which Jon does not comment on.

“I understand why you felt it necessary to use them all, given how shocking this must be, but if you do wish to stop, best not to make a habit of it.” He’s trapped again by Elias’s eyes and he tries to squash down the definite sensation he’s disappointed him. Why that matters so much should be the more alarming question, but instead Jon quietly pockets the box again and chooses his words carefully.

“If I have more questions… will you answer them if I can keep up with it? Or was this the only surprise you had?” Jon asks, tone just slightly bordering shaky.

“You’ll just have to find out.” Elias answers him all pleasant looking smiles once more. “I believe they’re looking for you down in research, and I have scheduling to work out, so that will be all for now.”

[statementends]

Pulled Apart

Characters: Sasha, Jon, Elias, featuring Tim and... NotMartin

Pairings: None, Gen

Warnings: Non-canonical Character death, The Web, The Stranger, Brutal Pipe Murder mentioned. 

Summary: Sasha has spiders in her head, but controlling and manipulating her coworkers doesn’t mean she can’t look after them. 

AO3: Link

-

Keeping Jon on task wasn’t easy. Finding Gertrude had shook him. Sasha couldn’t blame him. After all they’d gone through finding his predecessor was the last straw. Still, she had a job to do, and Jon antagonizing Tim wasn’t going to get it done.

“He’s being a paranoid prat.” Tim grumbled.

“Yeah, but you know how Jon is. He’s not the type ready for an emergency.”

Tim laughed, a bit tense, a bit high. “Yeah. Worms and monsters.”

Sasha smiled at him encouragingly. They were friends after all. Comforting Tim wasn’t so hard, and it worked into the greater web so there was no harm in keeping the peace. “I’ll talk to him.”

“Good luck,” Tim sounded doubtful. She patted his shoulder.

Tim wasn’t who Jon needed to be afraid of.

“I’m heading out,” Martin….

No… Not Martin. She had to remind herself sometimes. She could only just remember him. A large man with a round face and kind eyes. The web inside her trapped the thoughts that the stranger tried to tug out of reality. She was determined to remember Martin. No one else would.

The stranger was thin and pointed and left briskly. He didn’t stay late. He didn’t make tea. He had a confident air and was unconcerned about everything.

She went to Jon’s office. Jon was worse than he had ever been. He knew there was something wrong, but couldn’t name it or know it. The spiders whispered and explained to her why that was so difficult for him. Why it would make things easier for her in the long run.

Controlling her co-workers for a greater plot, well… maybe it was evil. Maybe she was a monster, but she could make things easier for them. Kinder.

“Jon?” She asked softly.

He fumbled with his tape recorder quickly clicking it off.

“Sorry, yes, I was just… finishing up. Did you need something, Sasha?”

“I need you to go home Jon,” She said. “You slept here last night.”

He jolted. “How do you know that?”

“You’re in the same clothes as yesterday.” She pointed calmly at his rumpled shirt.

“I--I was working late.”

“And you need to leave Tim alone.”

“Tim?”

“He’s not doing well after what happened.”

“He’s been angry…”

“He’s been hurting,” Sasha corrected. “And he doesn’t know how to deal with what happened.”

Jon looked caught out. “Well… I don’t have any answers for him.”

“Jon, you don’t need to have answers.”

He looked at her sharply. “That-- yes I do. Yes I do. That’s why--I need to know. I found something. A letter in the rubbish bin--”

“Jon,” Sasha interrupted. “How can I prove to you we won’t hurt you?”

“I--I don’t think that you’ll--”

“I know you think one of us murdered Gertrude. Jon, I’m not going to ask you to trust me. I know that’s hard for you right now, but let me help you.”

“What were you doing when she was murdered?” His voice went low and… there was something behind it. Like a thread tugging her towards the web. But it wasn’t spiders on his tongue.

“I haven’t the foggiest. But if it helps I’ll find out.”

Jon’s shoulders slumped. “I’m sorry,” He mumbled. “I just… I can’t.”

“Here, I brought you some tea. Drink that and then go home. You’re exhausted.”

Jon gazed at the cup frustration welling. A memory. Maybe he could almost remember Martin.

“It would be Martin,” He had said to her.

-

He held an axe in his hands standing in front of the table.

“Jon!” She yelled. He gave her a vicious look and tried to bring the axe down. With no other choice she reached out and caught his wrist in a string. Jon shook. He was terrified now.

“You’re one of them.” He said. “You’re a… a spider. Just like--”

“I’m not going to hurt you Jon,” Sasha said. “I’m trying to save you. If you break that table you’ll release what’s holding that thing back.”

“It--it took Martin!” Jon shouted. “And you knew. You hid it.”

“I didn’t want you putting yourself in danger, Jon. I’m not your enemy.”

“You’re a monster.”

She winced. Takes one to know one probably wouldn’t be the best strategy in this case.

“I heard the tapes. He… I don’t remember him. I don’t recognise him. He sounded...so lost and I hated him. Why would I hate him?”

There were angry tears in his eyes.

“I don’t think you did,” Sasha said softly.

“He lied on his CV.” Jon went on. “I went to see his mother, about some lie he had written her about. She hadn’t seen him since… since Prentiss. She laughed and asked if we finally found out he was scamming us. I--it always drove me crazy his Latin translations. He didn’t seem to know how to format things properly, but he had never known, he was just trying to get by with a sick mother and I disliked him because I thought he should know better--and I don’t even remember him. Just… just the impression on a few cassette tapes.” He was babbling now. His arms were still strung up by her web holding up the axe.

“How long?” he asked suddenly.

“How long?”

“How long have you been one of them?”

Sasha sighed. “Since Prentiss.”

“How many people did we lose that day?” His voice broke a little. “Is Tim--?”

“Tim’s human. Just… angry and a bit broken. Jon, if I let you go will you put the axe down?”

“Is it yours? Did you bring it here so that it would--”

“No,” She shook her head. “I didn’t… we didn’t bring it here, and if you break it then the thing pretending to be Martin will be free to kill us all. Right now it’s trapped, tethered.”

“How can I trust you?”

“I’m still me, Jon.”

“Have you used your powers on me before?”

“Not until now. Will you let go of the axe, Jon?”

He nodded.

She let the threads fall.

He slammed the axe down hard on the table.

-

“Damn it.” The person living in the tunnels had somehow cut her off. NotMartin was trapped, but she was separated from Jon. “Hey, help me out,” She called to the spiders that had claimed the tunnels as their own. The spiders skittered to her and then proceeded down the tunnel in droves. She followed them. Her senses were messed up in the tunnels. There was no controlling the buried in its own domain.

She finally found the trapdoor back to the archives and lifted herself out. She heard metal hitting flesh coming from Jon’s office and ran to it. She was sure NotMartin had been trapped but--

Elias stood over the ruined body of a man holding a pipe. He was covered in blood.

“Ah,” he breathed heavily. “Sasha. Good. We should chat.” He threw the pipe aside and moved past her. “Quickly now, Jon’s going to come back any moment.”

“You--” Elias… had…

“The Mother of Puppets and I have an understanding. If you don’t want to break that understanding follow me to my office, now.”

She felt her own webs tugging. The Mother’s guidance. Damn. Damn it!

She followed Elias into his office. He threw his bloodied coat to the side. “Well, that could have gone better.”

“What are you? I thought…”

“The Web is very good about moving the players on the board. The Eye is good at knowing who the players are.” Elias said. “I know you’re here to make sure things continue on schedule. I don’t have a problem with that, but it will be hard to convince Jon of your loyalties knowing what you are now. He has a thing about spiders.”

“What’s Jon going to think when he sees that body in his office?” Sasha asked coldly.

“He’ll run. He’ll know it was me and think I want to kill him.”

“Won’t the police suspect him?”

“I’m not worried,” Elias shrugged. “Jon needs to go learn some lessons. We can keep the police at bay for a little while I’m sure. I know you’re going to help me Sasha, so I won’t ask.”

“I’m going to help my friends,” Sasha corrected. She felt it. Hate curling in her stomache because he must know he had to know about everything that had happened. He could have protected them from Prentiss properly. He could have saved Martin. He could have saved her. He had just watched.

“Control is the Web’s expertise. Not mine.” He plucked the thought from her head. “If the Distortion doesn’t keep him, Tim will be back soon. He’ll probably need some help.”

“That’s it?”

“Now we both know where we stand with one another. I think that’s enough for one evening. I need to--”

“Destroy evidence?”

“You’d be helpful in that, but I won’t ask you to do it.”

“Good.”

Sasha turned and walked out of the office. She went back downstairs to the archives just in time for Tim to burst through a door that had never been in the archives before. He panted looking behind him, terrified.

“No, no, Helen!?” He called out.

“Tim?”

“Sasha! Sasha we need to get out of here now, that--that Michael. It--oh… oh god.” He looked in through the open door of Jon’s office, seeing the corpse.

“He--I didn’t think… I thought he was getting better.” He stumbled over his words.

She hated getting tangled in someone else’s web. Elias had been setting things up for a long time though. She took Tim upstairs to the breakroom and called the police.

She was going to have a hard time convincing Jon to trust her. Right now she just needed to keep everyone left together.

“I’ll make you some tea,” She offered.

[brigettereyes]

Technology and Society: Its Approaches

In today’s time, traditional media slowly feels like it’s being neglected. Yes, we still see it and use it but not as often as we did before. We are so used to seeing or hearing it that we overlook it sometimes. Traditional media includes radio, newspapers, magazines, billboards, and the like. These types of media have become “usual”. When the digital age came and began in the second half of the 20th century, as computer technology slowly started infiltrating different industries and then shifted into public use, we became dependent on this new media. Digital media brought such easy and fast access to anything we might need. Anytime you use your computer or cellphone, opening the web and such applications, you’re consuming digital media. Digital media might come in the form of videos, articles, advertisements, music, podcasts, video games, or social media. Digital media quickly replaced the traditional media in a blink of an eye. 

New Media: A Critical Introduction, a book by Martin Lister, Jon Dovey, Seth Giddings, Iain Grant, and Kieran Kelly discusses a comprehensive introduction to the culture, history, technologies and theories of new media. The book considers the ways in which 'new media' really are new, assesses the claims that a media and technological revolution has taken place and formulates new ways for media studies to respond to new technologies.In the book, it explains the four (4) main outcomes of the shift towards digital media. Firstly, media texts become de-linked from particular media. A perfect example for this is how we have e-books now compared to the traditional books we have. Before, we needed to bring an actual and physical copy of books to school but nowadays, we have the PDF copy of books. Another example is how we easily watch movies on our phones and how we can easily post photographs online. The second outcome of digitalization is that information can be compressed and fitted into very small spaces or even accessed remotely. And it’s true. We have hard drives and USB sticks as our physical devices. We also have “drives” and “clouds” which can be accessed online and can also store large amounts of data, just as USBs and hard drives do. Thirdly, the access to data can be very fast and also not have to be linear. This is also very evident in today’s time. We can just open our computers and/or our cellphones and open the web, go to Google, and search for anything we want to know. No matter how simple it is, we always go to Google and search for it just to make sure. Lastly, the fourth outcome of digitalization is that data can be manipulated in ways unimaginable in the analogue media age. A perfect example for this is very apparent in the Philippines. Fake news has been a problem in our country and how we’re easily manipulated by this kind of news. Through these four (4) outcomes, we can definitely see how the digital age affected us, positively or negatively. The digital age also introduced the technological aspect of media. 

This coming of the digital media age also came with a lot of approaches and theories to the study of it. Many scientists, theorists, and other professionals had each of their explanations based on their understanding and experiences with the new wave of media that has been brought to us. And as we tackle this new age, these approaches discuss the relationship between the technology and society aspect. The first approach is instrumentalism. Instrumentalism considers technology as neutral. Instrumentalism views technology as a tool or a device and nothing else. Technology can only be judged by its efficiency. It cannot be assessed on moral, political, or technical terms because it is seen as a neutral device. Technology is seen as a device that people utilize. Nothing more, nothing  less. Technology can be there but the one who uses it, may it be in a good or bad way, gives such definition to technology. Based on my own understanding, the users of technology can define technology based on their usage and the outcomes of it. Therefore, technology really is neutral. It can only be given a meaning or importance once it is used by a person. It’s just a tool that is present and ready to use but it is up to us if we use it in the right way or the other way around. I remember when cell phones were first introduced and are still new to everyone, its only features are calling and texting someone as fast and as soon as possible. So cell phones, as a device of technology, are there for us to use it to call or text someone. But when we use it to text someone to cheat on an exam or to prank call somebody, we give it an inappropriate use of technology. 

Another approach is substantivism. Substantivism argues that technology influences how society develops and impacts our culture and social structure, and political systems. It claims that the technology has its own path and that people have little influence over how these political systems, culture and social structure will be impacted. Technology is a force that determines what our society will be like. The technology has its own values which can be good or bad which people cannot control and the technology itself will determine how it will be used. It seems like substantivism, in simple terms, believes that technology has the power to define us as a society. Technology can create a human being in which technology dictates how he/she should be and how he/she must think. This is very noticeable in this generation where social media has taken over us. These days, social media allows us to look at our “idols” and see how they live their lives. Unfortunately, one of the bad outcomes that social media has brought to us is that we have “filters” in our posts. Most of the time, what you see on your news feed is not 100% true. This is where the substantivism approach will be exemplified. Scrolling through these social media feeds feels like we are dictated on how we should live our lives as well and how it can really impact our identity.

Lastly, social constructivism is like the opposite of substantivism. As substantivism discusses that technology somehow influences the society, social constructivism studies that human action or the society shapes technology. Technological outcomes are socially-mediated. To add, non-technological factors are also to be considered in helping understand the impact that technology may have in our lives. Based on my understanding, we as a society also determine technology. We also give definition to technology and how it must work. An example I can think of is how scientists, engineers, and people in general continue to improve and find other ways on how we can use technology. 

These approaches have the basis of discussing media theories and such topics. It has also been helpful for us to read and understand because we can then realize how much technology in the digital age has affected us in ways we don’t even notice. 

REFERENCES:

What is Digital Media? All you need to know about new media. Maryville Online. (2020, March 4). https://online.maryville.edu/blog/what-is-digital-media/.

Lister, M., Dovey, J., Giddings, S., Grant, I., & Kelly, K. (2010). New Media: A Critical Introduction. Routledge. 

Siapera, E. (2018). Understanding New Media (2nd ed.). SAGE Publications . 

[kiss-my-freckle]

Rederina Rewatch: Vanessa Cruz

"Our ghost has a face." 

                   “Our ghost has a name.”

I decided to skip over to 2x18 in my Rederina rewatch because Vanessa’s hire somehow makes sense to me now. This post will include dialogues from other episodes, as well as dialogues that pertain to my memory wipe theory - since I believe Red’s shooting was the “truth” Krilov took from Liz two years ago. 

2x17.

It’s important I start here, since 2x18 runs fluid. 

I don’t know if this is my birthday.

This is her birthday. Red celebrates and mourns at the same time. 

How’d you find me? If I can, they can. They flagged you leaving Dresden. Your passports are burned.

Tom burns the passports that are burned. Ressler put a flag on all of Tom’s aliases earlier in the episode, but Major was talking about the Germans. 

Reminiscent of Red burning his burned identities during his war against Kate. 

And those are the charred remains of 16 false identities that Kate has somehow compromised.

Ressler put a flag on all of Tom’s aliases -

You know, not everyone’s so anxious to leave. Put a flag on Tom, all his known aliases - he hasn’t left.

His deleted scene after their Wing Yee dinner -

Looks like Tom’s in a little bit of trouble and he’s gonna bring that trouble to you, so ... be careful. 

Reminiscent of Red’s scene in 5x8 -

I believe Tom Keen is once again entangled in some nasty business, and I worry he may be involving Elizabeth.

Tom hits her doorstep. He wants his passports from evidence.

2x18.

I couldn’t come up with a theory as to why Red hired Vanessa Cruz. Her skill-set is framing people, which Red is more than capable of doing since he’s the one who created Edgar Legate. Rederina changes the view and offers a purpose. 

Red after looking through Liz’s birthday photos. Tom after burning his burned passports. 

Turning myself in to save you saved me. And not because the Judge let me go. I’ve been running since I was 14. It’s all I’ve known. And in that moment when the Judge let me go, I thought, “maybe there’s a world where I don’t have to run, where I could just - ”

Our Red has been running for 30 years. 

Red: I understand what it’s like to be drawn to something that is unhealthy to a part of yourself that you are afraid of. But I want you to remember what your life really was with him, and imagine all that it could be without him. Liz: I don’t have to imagine. Red: Good. Because I have a case.

Red is close to tears in this scene and desperate to get his hooks into Vanessa Cruz. Putting Red’s words into context since that’s his entire reason for handing Liz this case - hiring Vanessa Cruz. 

Remove the replies, and this is what it looks like:

I want you to remember what your life really was with him, and imagine all that it could be without him. Because I plan to hire Vanessa Cruz. 

This is coming straight from him looking over her birthday photos. 

Vanessa Cruz and Katarina Rostova. 

Two women with many names.  Vanessa's relationship to Abby sells it even more. 

Vanessa’s husband was framed -

Thrown off a bridge to keep him from blowing the whistle. That’s when you framed him, which is why she framed you.

Ressler: Why would I feel bad for them? They’re criminals. Liz: According to Reddington, they’re innocent - Framed after months, sometimes years of planning by a woman with a deep-seated hatred for the 1%. She doesn’t just take their money, she takes their reputations, their freedom, sometimes their lives.

Ressler: Drew Roberts. He was one of Cruz’s victims. He worked at Oakside Investments. Aram: And? Ressler: That was the firm that employed Cruz’s dead husband. Aram, I might have an idea what this is all about.

Ressler: It’s not about money. It’s about revenge.

Onto Red, from 1x9 -

Ressler: So, what’s it all about then, the Blacklist? Revenge? Red: Oh, revenge is too easy and over so quickly. I would hope for more than that. 

Our Red was framed himself, from 5x20 - 

Similar to Cruz’s husband planning to blow the whistle, our Red planned to take down the Cabal. 

Jennifer: So, you’re saying you were framed? Red: I’m saying a perfectly plausible narrative was created. Jennifer: By some shadow government called the Cabal. Red: And anyone close to a target of theirs becomes a target themselves. Jennifer: Family. Red: Especially family.              (Unless given up for adoption to Sam)

Abandonment, a long-standing issue with Liz. Parallel of a faked suicide. 

Hernandez: They found her folded clothing at Rockaway Beach. They never found a body, but I know she was dead. She’d never abandon me.

Red: Two months later, she went to Cape May and left her clothes on the beach, walked into the ocean and was never seen again.

Liz: Do you think she’s dead? Katarina? I know they say she committed suicide, but there was a man, Anton Velov. He was a Colonel in the Spetsnaz. He said she might still be alive. Dom: I never heard from Katarina after she left for America. What really happened to her - I think there are some people who want to keep ­that information a secret. And I think they will do whatever is necessary even now to keep it that way.

Same was said of Katarina. By Jon Bokenkamp. 

Is Katarina really dead? I don’t know how to answer that. Is she really dead? She really walked off into the water and was never found. So there’s that. I don’t know. I don’t know how to answer that anymore. I’m sorry. 

Vanessa’s ghost references. 

Conway: Over 278 people lost everything because of some ghost. Aram: The detectives and the lawyers may not have found anything conclusive on their own, but if you put the photos they found together - our ghost has a face.

Liz: Our ghost has a name - Vanessa Cruz. 

Red was referred to as a ghost many times throughout. Specific in 4x2 when he shoots Kaplan. 

“And I will never be set free as long as I’m a ghost that you can’t see”

So was Liz in 5x9.

I think uh, she was -       A ghost. Life’s full of ’em.

Opposite with men. 

Hernandez: Some women make the same mistakes with men over and over again.

Vanessa’s husband was framed.

Katarina: It wasn’t your fault. He was a bad man. 

Red: Men like Tom don’t change. 

Cooper: I wonder what his angle is. Liz: Sir? Cooper: Reddington. Why give us this case? What’s his interest in this Cruz woman?

Kaplan: Mrs. Cruz, my employer is a longtime admirer of yours. He understands your gambit has run its course. The FBI knows what you’re up to. They’re looking for you now, which means you have one of two choices - Run and hide, or accept his help.

The only thing Vanessa has that our Red doesn’t, is her gender. Not so easy to seduce and betray both genders since he’s no longer Katarina Rostova. I believe Vanessa’s hire has everything to do with Red’s framing by the Cabal. She has no problem in the seduction and betrayal department. 

To the future. 

I don’t think it’s about revenge with Vanessa’s hire. I think it’s about clearing Red’s name. Her know-how goes deep. That expertise could help on the opposite side of the frame. Especially since she figured out her husband’s enough to seek vengeance. Her being wanted was the only reason Katarina had to “die” in the first place. As long as she continued to exist, Liz would be hunted and killed. 

Tom and the Cabal. 

Red took Hobbs’ vote in 2x17.

Red: Well, maybe you didn’t save mankind from an untimely death, but someday you may be able to spare me from one.

2x18.

Hobbs: I’ve been quietly lobbying on your behalf.

Tom sounds like Connolly in 2x19.

Connolly: I appreciate your loyalty to Agent Keen, Harold, but you have to admit there’s a possibility she’s being completely manipulated by Reddington. What if the reason he chose her in the first place is because he wanted to get his hands on this thing? What if that’s the real reason he turned himself in? All this talk about some personal connection between Reddington and Keen, why he chose her, some shared history - what if Reddington doesn’t care about Agent Keen and it’s all been a manipulation?

2x18.

Tom: You know, I’m no worse than your buddy Reddington. Liz: He’s not my buddy. And you are worse. Tom: You don’t get it. Even after all this time, Reddington Is dangerous, and he is playing you.

Interesting since Red traced the Orea bombing back to the Harbormaster trial, where Connolly allowed Tom to walk on all charges - including those committed on behalf of Berlin.

Scene cut.

From Tom trying to pin the passorts on Berlin to the Diector going off about Hobbs' betrayal.

Tom: Do you think it’s possible for uh - someone like me to start over, to become something else?

The Director: Reddington did not make you! We made you!

Tom: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I can’t. Not about this.

The Director: We put you in the game, and you betray us? You betray me? I treated you like family. I supported you.

The Fulcrum.

Hobbs: Listen to me, Red. The Fulcrum - If you have it, if you can prove you have it, do it now. Your life depends on it.

Red: This is simply about me trying to survive. I’m perfectly happy to put you in touch with someone who deals in shelf corporations, but I need the Fulcrum.

Tom: Reddington. I’ve been thinking about what you said - about needing to tell you the truth. So I’m gonna tell you the truth. The passports - the passports came from Reddington. Liz, there’s more.

Dembe: Agent Keen wants to meet regarding the Fulcrum.

Liz: Here. This is all you wanted. Now you have it. I just want this to stop. I want it all to stop, right now. Take it!

Lying to Liz about the passports was easy since they came from Red’s trusted forger in Warsaw. Hard to disprove that. The fact that one of them is for his Keen alias and Red hired him to enter her life, even more. Claiming Red issued the passports would’ve been enough. “Liz, there’s more.”

In 2x19 -

Liz: I thought you’d be gone. Tom: That was the plan. Then I thought maybe if I stayed, I’d have a shot at a normal life.

Rederina fits into Vanessa Cruz’s episode. If I’m right about the memory wipe and Vanessa’s reason for hire, then I suspect both will return in S6.

[sxpiosexualx]

What bothers me a lot about dorito fans claiming her “kween” and “the rightful ruler” is that she never do an actual job as a queen? I never saw her holding a paper and a quill, all she does is ride drogon and yell “dracarys”. Tell me again how is the “queen”. At least Cersei did her job!

Exactly, Cersei may not be the best candidate but she does know a thing or two about ruling, although she’s definitely straying from that after her whole wildfire act. Still, it irks me to see Dany stans say she deserves the Iron Throne. You could argue that it wouldn’t matter considering the past rulers we’ve seen managed to keep the realm considerably stable with the help of their counsel but wouldn’t that further reinforce the notion that Dany does not know a thing about ruling by herself? Even Joffrey faced backlash from the people in S2E06, the only difference is he didn’t have the dragons to intimidate people to think twice. What makes her worthy of the throne then? Her gentle heart? Tommen had a gentle heart, he still managed to be manipulated and lost the one thing that mattered to him, driving him to suicide in the process.

Speaking of Tommen, let’s examine the exchange he had with Tywin:

Tommen: “Wisdom makes a good king.”

Tywin: “Yes, but what is Wisdom? […] A wise king knows what he knows and what he doesn’t. You’re young. A wise young king listens to his counselors and heeds their advice until he comes of age. And the wisest kings continue to listen to them long afterwards.”

Preceding the exchange in S4E07 above, Tommen explores ideas of holiness, justness, and strength before finally concluding that “Wisdom makes a good king.” So let’s dissect this further:

Could Daenerys be considered as holy? This could be shot down with one quote; “Do you know what kept me standing, through all those years in exile? Faith. Not in any God, not in myths and legends. In myself. In Daenerys Targaryen.” We never see her attempt at praying, and in this speech she gives Jon in S7E03, she mentions that she places faith in herself above the Gods. I’m not sure about you, but that line in particular screams hubris(defined as extreme pride and arrogance shown by a character that ultimately brings about his downfall).

Is Daenerys just? I believe we’ve been expected to see her that way, yes. She did in fact abolish slavery, no? However interestingly enough, if you examine her methods, she rules as an absolute monarch. As a person in such position of power, what you say is law. And we see Daenerys practice this time and time again, burning and crucifying potentially innocent men in Mereen for example. So, I assume Daenerys truly believes what she’s doing is just, but we’re also given the exchange between her and Ser Barristan Selmy in S5E02 to ponder upon, “the mad king gave his enemies the justice he thought they deserved, and each time it made him feel powerful and right, until the very end.” Ironically enough, Daenerys insists she’s not her father preceding that exchange, and Ser Barristan goes on to mention that he “murdered sons in front of their fathers,” something we see her do in Eastwatch(S7E05).

Does Daenerys wield strength? Considering she has dragons at her command, yes(arguably). But in what world does having dragons make you the most deserving candidate to sit on the Iron Throne? The Westeros that saw a Targaryen dynasty that was only able to hold their rule because of the fear their dragons commanded? Would that make a satisfying conclusion to the story? A restoration of a dynasty that faced rebellions time and time again? Who dares challenge the authority of the mother of dragons? Observe what Tywin says about Robert Baratheon and his strength in S4E07, “a man who thinks that winning and ruling are the same thing.” This is the main problem with Daenerys, she conquers easily with the help of her army and her dragons, but she has no talent for issuing any reform. And when you conquer a place through war, you shift the power dynamics creating chaos. At least Littlefinger knew that reform must come after chaos, and he plans ahead unlike Daenerys who refuses to even give thought to an heir.

Alright, I hear you, none of that matters as much as long as she’s wise - as Tywin had pointed out, “A wise young king listens to his counselors and heeds their advice until he comes of age. And the wisest kings continue to listen to them long afterwards.” But does she? We see her attempt to in Mereen, but she still resorts to the harsh measures she deems as just, despite it being what her counsel advices her against. We see her do this again with Tyrion in season 7, even questioning his loyalty(and Varys’) as soon as his plans fail. Not only is she not the wisest, she also is impressionable - she listens to Jon over her actual counsel in which path to take, and she favour’s Olenna Tyrell’s advice in being a dragon over what Tyrion tells her, and again, she refuses to reason with Tyrion and decides to burn the Tarlys alive. In other words, she places herself above the Gods, does what she thinks is just, and has the power to silence those who question her authority with her dragons, leaving very little room for her counsel to reason with her. This is why the exchange between Tyrion and Varys in season 7 was so important: these two are already starting to see her for who she really is, instead of the propped up version that was sold to them by her blind supporters.

But who else could be a contender, seeing as no one else(still living)’s arc revolves around their quest for the Iron Throne? Well, the Iron Throne is an ugly thing and I for one hope it no longer exists at the end of the series but since we’re on this topic, who did we just discover is the rightful heir to the Iron Throne? Jon. 

The show has made a point to withhold that from us up to this point, just as J*nerys was starting to sail. Why? Because he now contends everything she’s worked for, everything she believes she’s entitled to. This is why I believe Daenerys’ arc serves as a foil to Jon’s instead of cinematic parallels meant to establish an otherwise poorly executed romance.

We see both these characters rise to power but there are stark differences in place. Daenerys feels entitled and rises up due to her name(and her dragons which also link in with her lineage), meanwhile Jon finds himself in positions of power because the people elect him, he doesn’t try to claim his right, he has no right. We’re meant to notice how fundamentally different these two are.

Let’s examine Varys’ speech from season 5:

“The Seven Kingdoms need someone stronger than Tommen but gentler than Stannis. A monarch who could intimidate the High Lords and inspire the people. A ruler loved by millions, with a powerful army, and the right family name.”

Jon is certainly stronger than Tommen, evident in him being referred to as “the greatest swordsman who ever walked,” by Ramsay in S6E09. He is definitely gentler than Stannis, showing Alys Kastark and Ned Umber mercy in S7E01. He’s gotten enough support from the Northern Lords and have inspired them enough to name him King in the North, surely an army would follow too. But what does he lack then? The right family name. And how can he get that? By also achieving what he’s always wanted: to be a Stark. Cue Sansa.

We are reminded that the North is wary of outsiders, especially Targaryens, “A Targaryen cannot be trusted.” - Lord Royce, (S7E02). They are too traumatised by Targaryen rule at this point that the only logical decision to maintain their support and reinforce Jon’s Northern side is if he takes the Stark name via a political marriage with Sansa. Say what you want about eggon tamale, he was raised by Ned Stark, Stark blood flows in him, and he’s lived an observed how to rule in Winterfell via being around Robb all these years. The show may have downplayed his ability to practice politics but he speaks like a true Northerner and it’s made apparent in the books during his exchange with Stannis of just how much he knows of the North and its people.

But even if you’d like to view this purely based on the show, Sansa is the perfect match for him. She has learnt from the best political players - Cersei, Margaery, and Littlefinger - while Jon is better known as the “military man.” You can see me explore why Sansa would make a better Queen than Daenerys here: https://sxpiosexualx.tumblr.com/post/165837328667/who-would-make-a-better-queen 

Say what you want about Jonsa, it makes the most sense. Jon is a good bet as king, but he would not be as nearly as successful without Sansa by his side. This is why the show spent so much time developing their dynamic(even if it wasn’t necessarily romantic though the tropes are heavily suggested and weaved into those scenes), to show us how effective their rule would be if they ruled together. It translates on screen even through the deliberate set design of the hall: Jon and Sansa sit on an equal level with their small table or counsel of Lords, allowing for there to be easy discussion. Unlike the throne we see Daenerys sit on at Dragonstone - a larger than life throne propped up and meant to intimidate those who enter the hall.

Finally, I’ll leave you with a criticism GRRM made on the Lord of the Rings:

 “Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?” – (GRRM on Tolkein)

So again, I believe the best bet on who should rule at the end of the series, be it the entire 7 Kingdoms or just the North, would be JonSa. After all, the story did begin with the Starks, and I’d much rather see a restoration of a house who’s downfall was brought upon being honourable, than the restoration of a dynasty who’s demise was largely brought upon their own doing.

Thank you for the ask anon! x

[tessatechaitea]

Doomsday’s Cock #1

Why is Rorschach on the cover of Doomsday's Cock #1?

Uh oh. Trump fans are going to be upset about this comic book. Of course, they'll pretend they're upset about comics making any kind of political commentary. But they're really just upset that the story portrays a world falling apart because the president is an obvious Trumpian disaster.

News reports indicate that Veidt's plan was exposed as The Great Lie. He's now considered a terrorist being hunted by everybody. It was Rorschach's journal that exposed the truth, a journal which disappeared not long after. I guess Rorschach did survive somehow and decided to get back to journaling. And then there he is. Rorschach has survived, reappearing to comment on how the world has gone to shit so that comic book Fanboys everywhere can fuck themselves silly.

Oh wait. Scratch that. They're more likely to rage about pandering until their heads explode.

Rorscach recruits the Marionette for some secret mission he's on. I don't remember The Marionette but I'm sure it was some villain that Rorschach nearly killed. They have three hours to find Doctor Manhattan since America has launched their nuclear missiles. The world is about to end which probably means The New 52 is about to begin. For some reason. It'll all be explained in time! Probably. I mean, it'll probably be the way Doctor Manhattan saves the world. Or something. Before leaving prison, The Marionette and Rorschach pick up The Marionette's husband, the Mime. They're the perfect team to catch Doctor Manhattan! She'll pull Jon's strings and he'll trap him in an invisible box. Even a fucking omnipotent blue naked guy can't defend against that. It turns out Rorscach is working with Ozymandias to find Doctor Manhattan to save their world. But when Ozymandias last saw Doctor Manhattan, he was leaving the Watchmen Universe to find one less complicated to live in. Or to find one that was fairly complicated and fuck it all up so that it didn't seem, at first glance, complicated at all. But like every continuity reboot, it was actually way more complicated than if things had been left alone. The issue ends with Clark having a nightmare about his prom night. I'm not sure if the scariest part of the dream was when his parents were killed in the traffic accident or when he saw Pete dancing. Lois wakes up and he tells her, "I don't think I've ever had one." Oh, um, the one refers to a nightmare. I didn't want to change the quote and I didn't want to add more dialogue. Instead I decided to write all of this extraneous and awkward crap. The night Superman has the nightmare is probably the night Doctor Manhattan arrived and changed the past because he didn't want to have to learn seventy years of DC history to understand the world he was now living in. The issue ends with a few lines from the poem, "Ozymandias," because why not? That's a pretty easy quote pull! Especially because it mentioned aliens and appeared after the Superman scene! Doomsday's Cock #1 Rating: It was huge.

[shewholovestoread]

will you pls update your cersie and sansa meta?? x

I’ve already written one meta about Cersie and Sansa which you can read here.

Having seen all of Season 7, I have to say I am even more convinced that the final showdown must be between Sansa and Cersie for a number of reasons.

Rest of it under the cut:

First off, there are parallels, both Sansa and Cersie are usually overlooked and underestimated by those around them. Dany doesn’t suffer from this because of her dragons, but neither of these two women have that luxury. They are both ordinary (and I use that term very loosely) women who have nothing but their wits to keep them alive. They have had to become smart in order to survive. Cersie had to do it because she was stuck in a love-less marriage with Robert, a man who never really had any ambition to be king and was therefore not as careful as one might have been had they cared about the position. Cersie also knew what had happened to Rhaegar’s wife and children and would not let that happen to herself or her children. In the earlier seasons, her entire focus is on the survival of her family and all her actions lead to that. Sansa, on the other hand, had to learn because her very survival depended on it. She had no alternatives, no protectors, no one to speak up for her.

There was something else that struck me as I was starting this meta, in a way, Cersie was a surrogate mother to Sansa. It makes sense, Sansa was twelve when she went to KL and her mother did not accompany the two young girls, which in itself if quite strange. And before Ned lost his head, Cersie made herself into a mother figure for Sansa. Sansa looked up to her and admired her, wanted to be like her. After Ned’s death, Sansa’s life became a living nightmare but, in a weird way, she still had Cersie who would occasionally advise her, in a way a mother would (albeit it was often harshly delivered, but that did not lessen the importance of the advice itself). It was Cersie who told Sansa that she could try to love Joffrey, implying that he was already a monster and even Cersie could not always control him. In her most formative years, it wasn’t Ned or Catelyn who were with Sansa, it was Cersie. I’ve also stated that, in those early years, she did care for Sansa, in her own twisted way. This gives Sansa an insight into the kind of women she really is which is why there is a part of Sansa that does admire her, because she’s survived where other, more able players have not.

Game of Thrones has been setting up Tyrion as a master strategist and this season just served to illustrate that that reputation may have been premature. He pledged to serve Dany and help her become queen of the Seven Kingdoms and was outmaneuvered time and again by Cersie. In the beginning when Dany’s war council were going over plans of taking KL, it seemed like a great plan, using Westerosi forces to take KL and the Unsullied to take Casterly Rock but while he was feeling smug, he forgot that he was dealing with Cersie. Cersie who learned from her father who was indeed a great strategist. Even at the end, she played both her brothers, especially Tyrion. That entire conversation is a very finely staged performance on Cersie’s part. Every action and word was carefully chosen. When she placed her hand on her stomach, it felt so out-of-character for her. This is Tyrion, she doesn’t trust him, she doesn’t even like him but she does have him figured out. She knew that he did genuinely love Tommen and Myrcella and he does regret that they died. Here’s another thing to consider, Tyrion does have a blindspot where his family is concerned. He hates his sister but she is his sister, there will always be a part of him that sees her through the lenses of a younger brother. Cersie has no such concerns, she would burn the world down and happily watch it burn.

Which brings us to Sansa. We spent the entire season worried sick over whether Sansa would indeed betray her family. Of course, the makers never gave any proof to set up that betrayal but that’s besides the point. If Tyrion was Cersie adversary, LF was Sansa’s. As we found out at the end, Sansa’s problems from the beginning were the handiwork of LF, if not for him Robert would not have come North and would not have betrothed Sansa and Joffrey. The Starks would have stayed home, healthy and whole. But LF’s hunger for power got the entire plot going. He then betrayed Ned and then used and abused Sansa. Sansa suffered some of the worst abuse at the hand of the Boltons and that match was arranged by none other than LF. Like Tyrion (and mind you I love him) LF also has too high an opinion of himself, he’s started believing his own publicity. Throughout this season, he tried to sow the seeds to dissent, first between Jon and Sansa and then between Sansa and Arya. And it would have worked except all season, LF was telling Sansa to think about the bigger picture, to view everyone with suspicion and always play out scenarios in her head so that nothing ever surprises her. This was great advice, except LF thought that for some reason, he was exempt from all these scenarios. Killing him would have been easy but to do so without losing the support of the Knights of the Vale, that was going to be exceedingly tricky. That scene where LF finally meets his end, that too is very carefully constructed, it’s the Knights of Vale who line the Great Hall with Lord Royce present, who already didn’t like him very much but couldn’t openly oppose him for fear of Sweet Robin. She sets him up perfectly, so much so that he never sees it coming.

So Season 7 saw both Cersie and Sansa outplay men who thought themselves to be smarter than the women they were trying to manipulate..

It also set them up in contrast to each other. In Season 6, Cersie burned down the Sept with all those people inside, not to mention all the collateral damage. Whereas Sansa was more worried whether they had enough food to make sure that everyone would be fed and they could take in refugees when the fight against the WW really came. She takes a personal interest when she really doesn’t need to and her people see this. This is evident when Arya comes to Winterfell and the two sentries don’t want to bother Lady Sansa, not because they’re scared but because, in a strange way, they’re protective of her.

Season 7 has so far established 3 main groups, Dany and her quest for the IT, Cersie and her quest for who-knows-what and the North that just wants its own independence and also survive both the WW and Cersie. I’ve stated multiple times that I don’t see Jon retain his crown in Season 8 which makes Sansa the QitN. Jaime recently left Cersie and rode North to fight against the WW and while there he will join Sansa and not Dany. Dany burned his men alive, he doesn’t like her and he doesn’t trust her. Jaime redemption arc started when he was paired with Brienne and tasked with getting the Stark girls safely delivered to their family. Plus he knows Sansa, he knew her father and mother and while he may not have liked them very much, I believe he does respect them. I personally can’t wait for him to meet Sansa and see the capable woman that she’s grown into. Jaime is often blinded by his love for Cersie but he’s starting to see that most of it may have been one-sided. When it is time to make a final choice as to who he will support, I believe he will pick Sansa, simply because she’s the better candidate. The fight against the WW will end with the elimination of one of the groups and I don’t believe it will be the Starks. They’re the protagonists of the series. I believe that Cersie will make it out alive as well with Dany sacrificing herself in the fight against the WW.

In the Starks vs Cersie battle, there will be one key difference from the BotB, Jon will seek out and heed Sansa’s counsel when it comes to how best deal with Cersie.

Anyway, that’s what I think and this post got way longer than I thought it would, but I hope it makes sense.

[theinvinciblenoob]

It was the best of years, it was the worst of years, it was the wokest of years, it was the most problematic of years, it was the year of AI, it was the year of scooters, it was the year of Big Tech triumph, it was the year of Big Tech scandals, it was the year of Musk’s disgrace, it was the year of Tesla’s redemption, it was the year of shitcoin justice, it was definitely not the year of AR or VR, it was the dumbest timeline, it was the spring of stanning, it was the winter of wtf.

It was, in short, a year tailor-made for The Jons, an annual award celebrating tech’s more dubious achievers, named, in an awe-inspiring fit of humility, after myself. So let’s get to it! With very little further ado, I give you: the third annual Jon Awards for Dubious Technical Achievement!

(The Jons 2015) (The Jons 2016) (The Jons 2017)

THE FEET AND LEGS AND TORSO OF CLAY AWARD FOR SUDDEN REGRESSION TO THE MEAN

To Elon Musk, who in the past year went from (in many eyes) “messiah who could do no wrong” to “man who has paid a $20 million fine and stepped down as chairman in order to settle with the SEC regarding allegations of tweeted fraud; been sued for very publicly accusing a stranger of pedophilia with no evidence; feuded with Azealia Banks; been roundly criticized for the conditions in Tesla’s factories; and been pilloried (though also, and to my mind more accurately, tentatively praised) for his new Boring Tunnel.” Don’t have heroes, kids.

THE BUT ON THE OTHER HAND THERE ARE ALL THOSE SHINY NEW ELECTRIC CARS AWARD FOR ATTEMPTED DOOMSAYING

Surprisingly, despite the previous award, this one goes to the herds of bears who spent much of the year claiming that Tesla’s imminent doom and bankruptcy would become obvious and indisputable any day now. The roars of the bears seem to have grown much quieter of late, probably because the Model 3’s production rate has rocketed from 1,000 per week at the start of the year to 1,000 per day of late. No mean feat on the part of Tesla employees.

THE YES BUT THE DIFFERENCE IS THE RUSSIANS KNOW IT’S DISINFORMATION AWARD FOR BAD OPSEC

To Donald Trump, who apparently continues to use an insecure iPhone which the Chinese and Russians listen in on. The good news? Officials have “confidence he was not spilling secrets because he rarely digs into the details of the intelligence he is shown and is not well versed in the operational specifics of military or covert activities.” Put less diplomatically, the President of the United States doesn’t pay enough attention to briefings to have any important secrets to share. Nothing to worry about there! Trump responded by tweeting a denial, saying he only had a “seldom used government cell phone” … from the iOS Twitter app.

THE YOU MUST ADMIT I WAS AT LEAST RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING BEING DIFFERENT NOW AWARD FOR BUBBLY BITCOIN PREDICTIONS

It’s too easy and obvious to give this award to John McAfee, who I suspect of actually angling for a Jon year after year. And as a believer that cryptocurrencies have long-term importance, I’m not going to award anyone for their less-outlandish-than-McAfee medium-term beliefs. So this award goes to Bitcoin uberbull Tom Lee, who claimed Bitcoin would end the year at $15,000 … in the second half of November. There’s a point you almost have to admire; the point at which hype becomes delusion.

THE SURE BUT IT’S A MORE CONNECTED KIND OF MISERY, EXPLOITATION, AND DISINFORMATION AWARD FOR DESTROYING THE GLOBAL VILLAGE IN ORDER TO SAVE IT

Not to Mark Zuckerberg, actually, whose company has, in its zeal for connecting the world, and its belief that this is always and automatically a good thing, amplified genocide, provided a platform for manipulation and disinformation which may have helped tip the Brexit referendum, and 2016 presidential election (both of which were admittedly so close that there were probably dozens of aspects which “helped tip” them) and is increasingly widely viewed as a significant net negative for the world thanks to its business model of incentivizing “engagement” above all else. He’d be a worthy recipient, but this goes to Sheryl Sandberg, for epitomizing Facebook leadership’s thin-skinned tunnel vision wherein they automatically suspect anyone who criticizes Facebook of having a bad-faith ulterior motive, when she “asked Facebook’s communications staff to research George Soros’s financial interests in the wake of his high-profile attacks on tech companies.”

THE PICK A HORSE ANY HORSE BUT LOOK JUST ONE HORSE AWARD FOR OXYMORONISM IN THE FACE OF SOCIAL MEDIA

To everyone — especially journalists and media executives — who thinks that the big social-media companies are too powerful and that tech companies should exercise more control over the dissemination of public speech, and/or to everyone who says that the big social-media companies shouldn’t ever censor while being perfectly aware that they are already exercising control over the dissemination of public speech via their timeline algorithms. There are many, many copies of this particular award to go around.

(Note that there are at least two intellectually consistent approaches here: one is to be explicitly supportive of social media companies moderating speech; another is to favor non-algorithmic, non-amplifying, non-optimized-for-engagement, strict-chronological feeds)

THE COMETH THE HOUR, COMETH THE SPECTACULARLY OUT-OF-TOUCH COVEN OF CLUELESS OLD WHITE MEN AWARD FOR REMINDING US THAT SOMETIMES THE CURE IS WORSE THAN THE DISEASE

To the members of the United States Congress, both houses, for making Mark Zuckerberg and Sundar Pichai seem cuddly, friendly, wise, warm, human, plugged-in, and in-touch with the common man and woman, by comparison with their unbelievably clueless question. Who can forget “Senator, we sell ads,” and/or “Congressman, iPhone is made by a different company”?

THE STREET FINDS ITS OWN DISUSES FOR THINGS AWARD FOR BOOTLEG URBAN RENEWAL

To Lime, Bird, and the other scooter companies whose products have spent the year being thrown by the dozen into Lake Merritt in the heart of Oakland, presumably with the collective intent of turning that empty water into reclaimed land, just as downtown San Francisco is built on the carcasses of sailing ships from the 49er gold rush.

THE OONTZ OONTZ OONTZ TRONC TRONC TRONC AWARD FOR FINALLY GETTING THAT THE JOKE WAS ON THEM

To Tribune Publishing, until recently known as Tronc, for reminding us of their unbelievably terrible name when they finally — finally! — decided to abandon it in favor of something not risible. A small silver second-place award goes to Oath, the owner of TechCrunch, for thereby rising to the top of the “Worst Media Company Name” rankings.

THE SOMETIMES NOTHING IS A REAL COOL HAND AWARD FOR DOING NOTHING BECAUSE NOTHING WAS NECESSARY

To Twitter, who, when noted far-right wacko Laura Loomer handcuffed herself to Twitter’s NYC building after she was permanently banned by them for hate speech, responded by — brilliantly — doing nothing at all. They did not ask the police to remove her. They did not press charges. They ignored her completely. And Loomer went from “she will not remove the handcuffs until CEO Jack Dorsey reinstates her account” to “After several hours of complaining about the cold, Loomer eventually requested to be removed from the door.”

THE COME ON NOW DON’T BE EVIL WAS A LONG TIME AGO AWARD FOR REDEFINING GOOGLEY

To Google, obviously, for being forced to come to terms with what sure looks from the outside like a culture of pervasive sexual harassment by a massive employee walkout in the same year its plans for a new censorship-friendly China search engine leaked. Look not for the trigram in thy brother’s eye, etc.

THE CENTRAL CASTING MAD SCIENTIST AWARD FOR BRINGING US THE DYSTOPIA WE DESERVE

To He Jiankui, the self-funded doctor who apparently brought us the world’s first two human babies genetically edited via CRISPR, without letting anything like an ethics review board, a well-considered benefit/risk ratio, the pre-existence of well-established less-dangerous ways to achieve the allegedly desired result, or anything else stand in his way. But then, if he had, that wouldn’t really have captured the 2018zeitgeist, would it?

THE WHAT ARE THE NEW RUULES AWARD FOR MAKING NICOTINE MORALLY AMBIGUOUS AGAIN

To Juul, which has made a ridiculous boatload of money and more importantly made a lot of people seem very silly as they moral-panic about vaping as if it is the same as smoking, and others seem just as silly as they moral-panic about that moral panic as if vaping has been guaranteed on stone tablets to have no deleterious side effects at all. Where is the nuanced middle? Ah, let’s not kid ourselves, it’s 2018, no one cares about the nuanced middle any more. Bring on the outrage!

THE LISTEN UP YOUNG WHIPPERSNAPPER I WAS THE CEO OF A CYBERSECURITY FIRM AND THE PRESIDENT’S CYBERSECURITY ADVISOR I’LL HAVE YOU KNOW AWARD FOR NOT ACTUALLY KNOWING ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT HOW TO CYBER THE CYBER. CYBER!

To Rudy Giuliani, who really was the CEO of a cybersecurity firm (Cyber!) and really was the president’s cybersecurity advisor (Cyber! Cyber!) and yet, as shown by his bewildering yet hilarious accusations that one of his tweets was sabotaged by Twitter, does not actually understand the Internet at all. Or, we may presume, the cyber. Cyber!

THE LOOK WE’RE ONLY A $30B COMPANY HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KEEP TRACK OF ALL THESE LITTLE DETAILS AWARD FOR FORCING PEOPLE TO INTERACT WITH OTHERS NEARBY

To Ericsson, who accidentally disabled phone service for hours for tens of millions of people around the globe because it failed to renew a (presumably TLS) software certificate used by its switching services ahead of its expiry. You can get those for free and automatically these days, btw. Never mind the cyber (Cyber!) attackers; it’s malingering incompetence that will get us all in the end. Speaking of which …

THE WHO COULD POSSIBLY HAVE IMAGINED THAT SUCH A THING WOULD HAPPEN OR IF IT DID THAT WE WOULD RESPOND TO IT IN ALL THE WORST POSSIBLE WAYS AWARD FOR A REPERTOIRE OF PANICKED FLAILING INEPTITUDE WORTHY OF ARTHUR DENT

To the authorities at Gatwick university, who first shut down one of the busiest airports in Europe for almost a day and a half during the pre-Christmas rush because there were reports of drones seen over its runways; then said they couldn’t possibly shoot down those drones for fear the stray bullets might harm someone; then conceded the possibility that there were no drones at all (though it seems like there probably were); then arrested a couple who turned out to be completely innocent; then reopened the airport with no resolution but that of the installation of an expensive new anti-drone system and the discovery of a single, untraced, damaged drone. This dithering paralysis raises many terrifying questions. I have two in particular. One: the people in charge of Gatwick — again, one of Europe’s biggest and busiest airports — never done any threat modelling / scenario analysis / contingency planning at all? And two: how many minutes-rather-than-hours would this shutdown have lasted if it had happened at a major airport in, say, Texas, before the bullet-ridden carcasses of the drones in question were dragged off the runway? I guess we’ll never know. But it gives me a certain dubious pleasure to bequeath to Gatwick, an airport I have known and disliked for many years, this year’s Jon of Jons.

Congratulations, of a sort, to all the winners of the Jons! All recipients shall receive a bobblehead of myself made up as a Blue Man, as per the image on this post, which will doubtless become coveted and increasingly valuable collectibles. (And needless to say sometime next year they will become redeemable for JonCoin.) And, of course, all winners shall be remembered by posterity forevermore.

1Bobbleheads shall only be distributed if and when available and convenient. The eventual existence of said bobbleheads is not guaranteed or indeed even particularly likely. Not valid on days named after Norse or Roman gods. All rights reserved, especially those rights about which we have reservations.

via TechCrunch

[williamsjoan]

It’s the Jons 2018!

It was the best of years, it was the worst of years, it was the wokest of years, it was the most problematic of years, it was the year of AI, it was the year of scooters, it was the year of Big Tech triumph, it was the year of Big Tech scandals, it was the year of Musk’s disgrace, it was the year of Tesla’s redemption, it was the year of shitcoin justice, it was definitely not the year of AR or VR, it was the dumbest timeline, it was the spring of stanning, it was the winter of wtf.

It was, in short, a year tailor-made for The Jons, an annual award celebrating tech’s more dubious achievers, named, in an awe-inspiring fit of humility, after myself. So let’s get to it! With very little further ado, I give you: the third annual Jon Awards for Dubious Technical Achievement!

(The Jons 2015) (The Jons 2016) (The Jons 2017)

THE FEET AND LEGS AND TORSO OF CLAY AWARD FOR SUDDEN REGRESSION TO THE MEAN

To Elon Musk, who in the past year went from (in many eyes) “messiah who could do no wrong” to “man who has paid a $20 million fine and stepped down as chairman in order to settle with the SEC regarding allegations of tweeted fraud; been sued for very publicly accusing a stranger of pedophilia with no evidence; feuded with Azealia Banks; been roundly criticized for the conditions in Tesla’s factories; and been pilloried (though also, and to my mind more accurately, tentatively praised) for his new Boring Tunnel.” Don’t have heroes, kids.

THE BUT ON THE OTHER HAND THERE ARE ALL THOSE SHINY NEW ELECTRIC CARS AWARD FOR ATTEMPTED DOOMSAYING

Surprisingly, despite the previous award, this one goes to the herds of bears who spent much of the year claiming that Tesla’s imminent doom and bankruptcy would become obvious and indisputable any day now. The roars of the bears seem to have grown much quieter of late, probably because the Model 3’s production rate has rocketed from 1,000 per week at the start of the year to 1,000 per day of late. No mean feat on the part of Tesla employees.

THE YES BUT THE DIFFERENCE IS THE RUSSIANS KNOW IT’S DISINFORMATION AWARD FOR BAD OPSEC

To Donald Trump, who apparently continues to use an insecure iPhone which the Chinese and Russians listen in on. The good news? Officials have “confidence he was not spilling secrets because he rarely digs into the details of the intelligence he is shown and is not well versed in the operational specifics of military or covert activities.” Put less diplomatically, the President of the United States doesn’t pay enough attention to briefings to have any important secrets to share. Nothing to worry about there! Trump responded by tweeting a denial, saying he only had a “seldom used government cell phone” … from the iOS Twitter app.

THE YOU MUST ADMIT I WAS AT LEAST RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING BEING DIFFERENT NOW AWARD FOR BUBBLY BITCOIN PREDICTIONS

It’s too easy and obvious to give this award to John McAfee, who I suspect of actually angling for a Jon year after year. And as a believer that cryptocurrencies have long-term importance, I’m not going to award anyone for their less-outlandish-than-McAfee medium-term beliefs. So this award goes to Bitcoin uberbull Tom Lee, who claimed Bitcoin would end the year at $15,000 … in the second half of November. There’s a point you almost have to admire; the point at which hype becomes delusion.

THE SURE BUT IT’S A MORE CONNECTED KIND OF MISERY, EXPLOITATION, AND DISINFORMATION AWARD FOR DESTROYING THE GLOBAL VILLAGE IN ORDER TO SAVE IT

Not to Mark Zuckerberg, actually, whose company has, in its zeal for connecting the world, and its belief that this is always and automatically a good thing, amplified genocide, provided a platform for manipulation and disinformation which may have helped tip the Brexit referendum, and 2016 presidential election (both of which were admittedly so close that there were probably dozens of aspects which “helped tip” them) and is increasingly widely viewed as a significant net negative for the world thanks to its business model of incentivizing “engagement” above all else. He’d be a worthy recipient, but this goes to Sheryl Sandberg, for epitomizing Facebook leadership’s thin-skinned tunnel vision wherein they automatically suspect anyone who criticizes Facebook of having a bad-faith ulterior motive, when she “asked Facebook’s communications staff to research George Soros’s financial interests in the wake of his high-profile attacks on tech companies.”

THE PICK A HORSE ANY HORSE BUT LOOK JUST ONE HORSE AWARD FOR OXYMORONISM IN THE FACE OF SOCIAL MEDIA

To everyone — especially journalists and media executives — who thinks that the big social-media companies are too powerful and that tech companies should exercise more control over the dissemination of public speech, and/or to everyone who says that the big social-media companies shouldn’t ever censor while being perfectly aware that they are already exercising control over the dissemination of public speech via their timeline algorithms. There are many, many copies of this particular award to go around.

(Note that there are at least two intellectually consistent approaches here: one is to be explicitly supportive of social media companies moderating speech; another is to favor non-algorithmic, non-amplifying, non-optimized-for-engagement, strict-chronological feeds)

THE COMETH THE HOUR, COMETH THE SPECTACULARLY OUT-OF-TOUCH COVEN OF CLUELESS OLD WHITE MEN AWARD FOR REMINDING US THAT SOMETIMES THE CURE IS WORSE THAN THE DISEASE

To the members of the United States Congress, both houses, for making Mark Zuckerberg and Sundar Pichai seem cuddly, friendly, wise, warm, human, plugged-in, and in-touch with the common man and woman, by comparison with their unbelievably clueless question. Who can forget “Senator, we sell ads,” and/or “Congressman, iPhone is made by a different company”?

THE STREET FINDS ITS OWN DISUSES FOR THINGS AWARD FOR BOOTLEG URBAN RENEWAL

To Lime, Bird, and the other scooter companies whose products have spent the year being thrown by the dozen into Lake Merritt in the heart of Oakland, presumably with the collective intent of turning that empty water into reclaimed land, just as downtown San Francisco is built on the carcasses of sailing ships from the 49er gold rush.

THE OONTZ OONTZ OONTZ TRONC TRONC TRONC AWARD FOR FINALLY GETTING THAT THE JOKE WAS ON THEM

To Tribune Publishing, until recently known as Tronc, for reminding us of their unbelievably terrible name when they finally — finally! — decided to abandon it in favor of something not risible. A small silver second-place award goes to Oath, the owner of TechCrunch, for thereby rising to the top of the “Worst Media Company Name” rankings.

THE SOMETIMES NOTHING IS A REAL COOL HAND AWARD FOR DOING NOTHING BECAUSE NOTHING WAS NECESSARY

To Twitter, who, when noted far-right wacko Laura Loomer handcuffed herself to Twitter’s NYC building after she was permanently banned by them for hate speech, responded by — brilliantly — doing nothing at all. They did not ask the police to remove her. They did not press charges. They ignored her completely. And Loomer went from “she will not remove the handcuffs until CEO Jack Dorsey reinstates her account” to “After several hours of complaining about the cold, Loomer eventually requested to be removed from the door.”

THE COME ON NOW DON’T BE EVIL WAS A LONG TIME AGO AWARD FOR REDEFINING GOOGLEY

To Google, obviously, for being forced to come to terms with what sure looks from the outside like a culture of pervasive sexual harassment by a massive employee walkout in the same year its plans for a new censorship-friendly China search engine leaked. Look not for the trigram in thy brother’s eye, etc.

THE CENTRAL CASTING MAD SCIENTIST AWARD FOR BRINGING US THE DYSTOPIA WE DESERVE

To He Jiankui, the self-funded doctor who apparently brought us the world’s first two human babies genetically edited via CRISPR, without letting anything like an ethics review board, a well-considered benefit/risk ratio, the pre-existence of well-established less-dangerous ways to achieve the allegedly desired result, or anything else stand in his way. But then, if he had, that wouldn’t really have captured the 2018zeitgeist, would it?

THE WHAT ARE THE NEW RUULES AWARD FOR MAKING NICOTINE MORALLY AMBIGUOUS AGAIN

To Juul, which has made a ridiculous boatload of money and more importantly made a lot of people seem very silly as they moral-panic about vaping as if it is the same as smoking, and others seem just as silly as they moral-panic about that moral panic as if vaping has been guaranteed on stone tablets to have no deleterious side effects at all. Where is the nuanced middle? Ah, let’s not kid ourselves, it’s 2018, no one cares about the nuanced middle any more. Bring on the outrage!

THE LISTEN UP YOUNG WHIPPERSNAPPER I WAS THE CEO OF A CYBERSECURITY FIRM AND THE PRESIDENT’S CYBERSECURITY ADVISOR I’LL HAVE YOU KNOW AWARD FOR NOT ACTUALLY KNOWING ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT HOW TO CYBER THE CYBER. CYBER!

To Rudy Giuliani, who really was the CEO of a cybersecurity firm (Cyber!) and really was the president’s cybersecurity advisor (Cyber! Cyber!) and yet, as shown by his bewildering yet hilarious accusations that one of his tweets was sabotaged by Twitter, does not actually understand the Internet at all. Or, we may presume, the cyber. Cyber!

THE LOOK WE’RE ONLY A $30B COMPANY HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KEEP TRACK OF ALL THESE LITTLE DETAILS AWARD FOR FORCING PEOPLE TO INTERACT WITH OTHERS NEARBY

To Ericsson, who accidentally disabled phone service for hours for tens of millions of people around the globe because it failed to renew a (presumably TLS) software certificate used by its switching services ahead of its expiry. You can get those for free and automatically these days, btw. Never mind the cyber (Cyber!) attackers; it’s malingering incompetence that will get us all in the end. Speaking of which …

THE WHO COULD POSSIBLY HAVE IMAGINED THAT SUCH A THING WOULD HAPPEN OR IF IT DID THAT WE WOULD RESPOND TO IT IN ALL THE WORST POSSIBLE WAYS AWARD FOR A REPERTOIRE OF PANICKED FLAILING INEPTITUDE WORTHY OF ARTHUR DENT

To the authorities at Gatwick university, who first shut down one of the busiest airports in Europe for almost a day and a half during the pre-Christmas rush because there were reports of drones seen over its runways; then said they couldn’t possibly shoot down those drones for fear the stray bullets might harm someone; then conceded the possibility that there were no drones at all (though it seems like there probably were); then arrested a couple who turned out to be completely innocent; then reopened the airport with no resolution but that of the installation of an expensive new anti-drone system and the discovery of a single, untraced, damaged drone. This dithering paralysis raises many terrifying questions. I have two in particular. One: the people in charge of Gatwick — again, one of Europe’s biggest and busiest airports — never done any threat modelling / scenario analysis / contingency planning at all? And two: how many minutes-rather-than-hours would this shutdown have lasted if it had happened at a major airport in, say, Texas, before the bullet-ridden carcasses of the drones in question were dragged off the runway? I guess we’ll never know. But it gives me a certain dubious pleasure to bequeath to Gatwick, an airport I have known and disliked for many years, this year’s Jon of Jons.

Congratulations, of a sort, to all the winners of the Jons! All recipients shall receive a bobblehead of myself made up as a Blue Man, as per the image on this post, which will doubtless become coveted and increasingly valuable collectibles. (And needless to say sometime next year they will become redeemable for JonCoin.) And, of course, all winners shall be remembered by posterity forevermore.

1Bobbleheads shall only be distributed if and when available and convenient. The eventual existence of said bobbleheads is not guaranteed or indeed even particularly likely. Not valid on days named after Norse or Roman gods. All rights reserved, especially those rights about which we have reservations.

It’s the Jons 2018! published first on https://timloewe.tumblr.com/

[fmservers]

It’s the Jons 2018!

It was the best of years, it was the worst of years, it was the wokest of years, it was the most problematic of years, it was the year of AI, it was the year of scooters, it was the year of Big Tech triumph, it was the year of Big Tech scandals, it was the year of Musk’s disgrace, it was the year of Tesla’s redemption, it was the year of shitcoin justice, it was definitely not the year of AR or VR, it was the dumbest timeline, it was the spring of stanning, it was the winter of wtf.

It was, in short, a year tailor-made for The Jons, an annual award celebrating tech’s more dubious achievers, named, in an awe-inspiring fit of humility, after myself. So let’s get to it! With very little further ado, I give you: the third annual Jon Awards for Dubious Technical Achievement!

(The Jons 2015) (The Jons 2016) (The Jons 2017)

THE FEET AND LEGS AND TORSO OF CLAY AWARD FOR SUDDEN REGRESSION TO THE MEAN

To Elon Musk, who in the past year went from (in many eyes) “messiah who could do no wrong” to “man who has paid a $20 million fine and stepped down as chairman in order to settle with the SEC regarding allegations of tweeted fraud; been sued for very publicly accusing a stranger of pedophilia with no evidence; feuded with Azealia Banks; been roundly criticized for the conditions in Tesla’s factories; and been pilloried (though also, and to my mind more accurately, tentatively praised) for his new Boring Tunnel.” Don’t have heroes, kids.

THE BUT ON THE OTHER HAND THERE ARE ALL THOSE SHINY NEW ELECTRIC CARS AWARD FOR ATTEMPTED DOOMSAYING

Surprisingly, despite the previous award, this one goes to the herds of bears who spent much of the year claiming that Tesla’s imminent doom and bankruptcy would become obvious and indisputable any day now. The roars of the bears seem to have grown much quieter of late, probably because the Model 3’s production rate has rocketed from 1,000 per week at the start of the year to 1,000 per day of late. No mean feat on the part of Tesla employees.

THE YES BUT THE DIFFERENCE IS THE RUSSIANS KNOW IT’S DISINFORMATION AWARD FOR BAD OPSEC

To Donald Trump, who apparently continues to use an insecure iPhone which the Chinese and Russians listen in on. The good news? Officials have “confidence he was not spilling secrets because he rarely digs into the details of the intelligence he is shown and is not well versed in the operational specifics of military or covert activities.” Put less diplomatically, the President of the United States doesn’t pay enough attention to briefings to have any important secrets to share. Nothing to worry about there! Trump responded by tweeting a denial, saying he only had a “seldom used government cell phone” … from the iOS Twitter app.

THE YOU MUST ADMIT I WAS AT LEAST RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING BEING DIFFERENT NOW AWARD FOR BUBBLY BITCOIN PREDICTIONS

It’s too easy and obvious to give this award to John McAfee, who I suspect of actually angling for a Jon year after year. And as a believer that cryptocurrencies have long-term importance, I’m not going to award anyone for their less-outlandish-than-McAfee medium-term beliefs. So this award goes to Bitcoin uberbull Tom Lee, who claimed Bitcoin would end the year at $15,000 … in the second half of November. There’s a point you almost have to admire; the point at which hype becomes delusion.

THE SURE BUT IT’S A MORE CONNECTED KIND OF MISERY, EXPLOITATION, AND DISINFORMATION AWARD FOR DESTROYING THE GLOBAL VILLAGE IN ORDER TO SAVE IT

Not to Mark Zuckerberg, actually, whose company has, in its zeal for connecting the world, and its belief that this is always and automatically a good thing, amplified genocide, provided a platform for manipulation and disinformation which may have helped tip the Brexit referendum, and 2016 presidential election (both of which were admittedly so close that there were probably dozens of aspects which “helped tip” them) and is increasingly widely viewed as a significant net negative for the world thanks to its business model of incentivizing “engagement” above all else. He’d be a worthy recipient, but this goes to Sheryl Sandberg, for epitomizing Facebook leadership’s thin-skinned tunnel vision wherein they automatically suspect anyone who criticizes Facebook of having a bad-faith ulterior motive, when she “asked Facebook’s communications staff to research George Soros’s financial interests in the wake of his high-profile attacks on tech companies.”

THE PICK A HORSE ANY HORSE BUT LOOK JUST ONE HORSE AWARD FOR OXYMORONISM IN THE FACE OF SOCIAL MEDIA

To everyone — especially journalists and media executives — who thinks that the big social-media companies are too powerful and that tech companies should exercise more control over the dissemination of public speech, and/or to everyone who says that the big social-media companies shouldn’t ever censor while being perfectly aware that they are already exercising control over the dissemination of public speech via their timeline algorithms. There are many, many copies of this particular award to go around.

(Note that there are at least two intellectually consistent approaches here: one is to be explicitly supportive of social media companies moderating speech; another is to favor non-algorithmic, non-amplifying, non-optimized-for-engagement, strict-chronological feeds)

THE COMETH THE HOUR, COMETH THE SPECTACULARLY OUT-OF-TOUCH COVEN OF CLUELESS OLD WHITE MEN AWARD FOR REMINDING US THAT SOMETIMES THE CURE IS WORSE THAN THE DISEASE

To the members of the United States Congress, both houses, for making Mark Zuckerberg and Sundar Pichai seem cuddly, friendly, wise, warm, human, plugged-in, and in-touch with the common man and woman, by comparison with their unbelievably clueless question. Who can forget “Senator, we sell ads,” and/or “Congressman, iPhone is made by a different company”?

THE STREET FINDS ITS OWN DISUSES FOR THINGS AWARD FOR BOOTLEG URBAN RENEWAL

To Lime, Bird, and the other scooter companies whose products have spent the year being thrown by the dozen into Lake Merritt in the heart of Oakland, presumably with the collective intent of turning that empty water into reclaimed land, just as downtown San Francisco is built on the carcasses of sailing ships from the 49er gold rush.

THE OONTZ OONTZ OONTZ TRONC TRONC TRONC AWARD FOR FINALLY GETTING THAT THE JOKE WAS ON THEM

To Tribune Publishing, until recently known as Tronc, for reminding us of their unbelievably terrible name when they finally — finally! — decided to abandon it in favor of something not risible. A small silver second-place award goes to Oath, the owner of TechCrunch, for thereby rising to the top of the “Worst Media Company Name” rankings.

THE SOMETIMES NOTHING IS A REAL COOL HAND AWARD FOR DOING NOTHING BECAUSE NOTHING WAS NECESSARY

To Twitter, who, when noted far-right wacko Laura Loomer handcuffed herself to Twitter’s NYC building after she was permanently banned by them for hate speech, responded by — brilliantly — doing nothing at all. They did not ask the police to remove her. They did not press charges. They ignored her completely. And Loomer went from “she will not remove the handcuffs until CEO Jack Dorsey reinstates her account” to “After several hours of complaining about the cold, Loomer eventually requested to be removed from the door.”

THE COME ON NOW DON’T BE EVIL WAS A LONG TIME AGO AWARD FOR REDEFINING GOOGLEY

To Google, obviously, for being forced to come to terms with what sure looks from the outside like a culture of pervasive sexual harassment by a massive employee walkout in the same year its plans for a new censorship-friendly China search engine leaked. Look not for the trigram in thy brother’s eye, etc.

THE CENTRAL CASTING MAD SCIENTIST AWARD FOR BRINGING US THE DYSTOPIA WE DESERVE

To He Jiankui, the self-funded doctor who apparently brought us the world’s first two human babies genetically edited via CRISPR, without letting anything like an ethics review board, a well-considered benefit/risk ratio, the pre-existence of well-established less-dangerous ways to achieve the allegedly desired result, or anything else stand in his way. But then, if he had, that wouldn’t really have captured the 2018zeitgeist, would it?

THE WHAT ARE THE NEW RUULES AWARD FOR MAKING NICOTINE MORALLY AMBIGUOUS AGAIN

To Juul, which has made a ridiculous boatload of money and more importantly made a lot of people seem very silly as they moral-panic about vaping as if it is the same as smoking, and others seem just as silly as they moral-panic about that moral panic as if vaping has been guaranteed on stone tablets to have no deleterious side effects at all. Where is the nuanced middle? Ah, let’s not kid ourselves, it’s 2018, no one cares about the nuanced middle any more. Bring on the outrage!

THE LISTEN UP YOUNG WHIPPERSNAPPER I WAS THE CEO OF A CYBERSECURITY FIRM AND THE PRESIDENT’S CYBERSECURITY ADVISOR I’LL HAVE YOU KNOW AWARD FOR NOT ACTUALLY KNOWING ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT HOW TO CYBER THE CYBER. CYBER!

To Rudy Giuliani, who really was the CEO of a cybersecurity firm (Cyber!) and really was the president’s cybersecurity advisor (Cyber! Cyber!) and yet, as shown by his bewildering yet hilarious accusations that one of his tweets was sabotaged by Twitter, does not actually understand the Internet at all. Or, we may presume, the cyber. Cyber!

THE LOOK WE’RE ONLY A $30B COMPANY HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KEEP TRACK OF ALL THESE LITTLE DETAILS AWARD FOR FORCING PEOPLE TO INTERACT WITH OTHERS NEARBY

To Ericsson, who accidentally disabled phone service for hours for tens of millions of people around the globe because it failed to renew a (presumably TLS) software certificate used by its switching services ahead of its expiry. You can get those for free and automatically these days, btw. Never mind the cyber (Cyber!) attackers; it’s malingering incompetence that will get us all in the end. Speaking of which …

THE WHO COULD POSSIBLY HAVE IMAGINED THAT SUCH A THING WOULD HAPPEN OR IF IT DID THAT WE WOULD RESPOND TO IT IN ALL THE WORST POSSIBLE WAYS AWARD FOR A REPERTOIRE OF PANICKED FLAILING INEPTITUDE WORTHY OF ARTHUR DENT

To the authorities at Gatwick university, who first shut down one of the busiest airports in Europe for almost a day and a half during the pre-Christmas rush because there were reports of drones seen over its runways; then said they couldn’t possibly shoot down those drones for fear the stray bullets might harm someone; then conceded the possibility that there were no drones at all (though it seems like there probably were); then arrested a couple who turned out to be completely innocent; then reopened the airport with no resolution but that of the installation of an expensive new anti-drone system and the discovery of a single, untraced, damaged drone. This dithering paralysis raises many terrifying questions. I have two in particular. One: the people in charge of Gatwick — again, one of Europe’s biggest and busiest airports — never done any threat modelling / scenario analysis / contingency planning at all? And two: how many minutes-rather-than-hours would this shutdown have lasted if it had happened at a major airport in, say, Texas, before the bullet-ridden carcasses of the drones in question were dragged off the runway? I guess we’ll never know. But it gives me a certain dubious pleasure to bequeath to Gatwick, an airport I have known and disliked for many years, this year’s Jon of Jons.

Congratulations, of a sort, to all the winners of the Jons! All recipients shall receive a bobblehead of myself made up as a Blue Man, as per the image on this post, which will doubtless become coveted and increasingly valuable collectibles. (And needless to say sometime next year they will become redeemable for JonCoin.) And, of course, all winners shall be remembered by posterity forevermore.

1Bobbleheads shall only be distributed if and when available and convenient. The eventual existence of said bobbleheads is not guaranteed or indeed even particularly likely. Not valid on days named after Norse or Roman gods. All rights reserved, especially those rights about which we have reservations.

Via Jon Evans https://techcrunch.com

[i-am-very-very-tired]

Director, Jon Hershfield, MFT Mindfulness and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for individuals and families affected by OCD, Anxiety, and related disorders Home About Us Services Free OCD Group Jon’s Blog Media Links Contact Us Next HOCD (Sexual Orientation OCD): Part One What is HOCD? It goes by many names. HOCD, Gay OCD, Sexual Orientation OCD, or, if you suffer from it, your own personal nightmare. You know yourself to be of one orientation, but your mind starts telling you that you secretly belong to another. It’s not homophobia, it’s not denial, it’s a form of obsessive compulsive disorder, an obsession with sexual orientation. It follows the same rules as other forms of OCD of course. It has the obsession, an unwanted intrusive thought: the fear of becoming gay (or some orientation not your own) the fear of being seen as gay fear of relationship issues being signs of sexual orientation issues the fear of being in denial (or so secretly gay even you don’t know about it) the fear that intrusive thoughts will ruin your sexual performance and/or that difficulty performing sexually is a sign of your orientation changing the fear of losing your sexual identity It’s not just “what if I’m gay?” If it were that easy, you could put it to rest with, “Well, I’ll be gay then and my gay self will be cool with it.” It’s a fear of being trapped, of losing your sense of self. It’s a fear of the “straight” you somehow getting lost in a metamorphosing gay body, never being able to return to that connection you once had with your sexuality and the people you were attracted to, and being held responsible for failing to realize it in time. It has compulsions, many of them covert, easy to rationalize as just “figuring things out” but no less ritualistic than counting to your favorite number while washing your hands in scalding water to ensure you are clean. Physical compulsions common in HOCD: Avoiding all things you may associate with homosexuality – types of music or movies, gay neighborhoods, the gym, types of fashion, colors, cadences of speech, styles of singing or dancing… Physically checking of your groin to see if there is any sensation going on down there that you’ve deemed a gay response, hoping to find nothing. But because over-attending to any body part causes sensations, you inevitable find something and analyze why. Physical forms of reassurance seeking, such as compulsive masturbating to straight pornography while checking to be sure you like it, compulsively looking at gay pornography while checking to be sure you don’t like it Staring at people you think you’re supposed to be attracted to and looking away from people you think you’re not supposed to be attracted to. Or staring at people you think you’re not supposed to be attracted to as a form of checking. Asking for reassurance to see if others think you’re gay or manipulating people into commenting on your “straightness” Mental compulsions common in HOCD: Neutralizing thoughts with self-reassurance (i.e. repeatedly saying “I’m not gay” or “gross, that’s not me”) Scenario bending – playing imaginary scenarios in your head to determine if you would or would not enjoy engaging in a gay behavior Mentally reviewing your past sexual experiences to see if there were any signs or evidence of gayness. This may include over-analyzing any same-sex experiences you may have had to determine if they define your sexual orientation. Mentally reviewing recent interactions to see if you felt gay or if others saw you as gay Praying or doing other mental activities in response to the presence of gay thoughts in an attempt to make them go away Compulsive fantasizing about “straight behaviors” Compulsive fantasizing about gay behaviors for the purpose of checking if you like them (sometimes called compulsive flooding) Ritualistically lamenting the presence of gay thoughts, devoting time to wishing they weren’t there, that you’d never thought them in the first place Though I have treated this many times, enough that I felt compelled to write blogs about it before, people tend to underestimate how common a form of OCD this is. You may be afraid to call it OCD because in the throes of the obsession, it feels like that could just be an act of denial. If I call it OCD, how will I know for sure that I’m not also gay? You may be afraid to share your fears with friends, who may mock you or secretly pretend to “get it” when they really just think you’re gay and won’t admit it. You may be afraid that your therapist will join you in the analytical pursuit of meaning, rather than help you, and then try to get you to accept a homosexuality in you that doesn’t really exist. It’s true that therapists who are not OCD specialists may be more psychodynamically trained and feel pressure to view HOCD as an identity issue when it is not. It’s not even a sex issue. It’s an issue of obsessing over uncertainty and engaging in compulsions in the futile pursuit of that certainty. It’s about washing the sexual mind of perceived contaminants as someone else might wash their hands. “I know I’m not gay, but this thing has made me lose confidence in knowing what I am, which means I could be gay, which means I can’t stop thinking about it until I prove I’m straight.” Common things I hear from straight people with HOCD: Why do I keep getting thoughts of kissing my friend? My straight relationships have always been full of conflict and it would be easier if I were gay. Why do I notice members of the same sex at all? Isn’t calling this OCD just a way of avoiding calling it denial? I’m not as attracted to members of the opposite sex as I used to be. I’m not homophobic at all. In fact, I a big supporter of gay rights. Does this mean something? If I were totally straight, this obsession wouldn’t keep coming back. There’s something happening in my groin and it means I’m reacting to members of the same sex and straight people don’t do that. If I don’t read about HOCD, I won’t be able to handle the anxiety of thinking I could be gay. My therapist is just waiting for the right time to refer me to an LGBT specialist. It’s something. It’s not sexual arousal, but it’s not nothing. What is it???? Exposure therapy is going to make me feel ok with gay thoughts, which is going to make me gay. If I live in denial and wake up to being gay one day, everyone will think I’m so stupid for not having known and everyone will hate that I wasted their time knowing me. Along with HOCD often comes brutal self-esteem hits, depression, and social anxiety. If you suffer from sexual orientation obsessions, it can feel like you don’t know who you are anymore, like your true self is locked away and this “other” is taking over your life. It can keep you from fully experiencing your romantic relationships, your friendships, and everything up to and including dreams. It may not seem like it, but all OCD is this way. Jon Hershfield, MFT is a psychotherapist in private practice licensed in Maryland and California, specializing in the treatment of OCD. Follow him on Twitter and Facebook. Click here for HOCD: Part 4 Click here for HOCD: Part 3 Click here for HOCD: Part 2 By Jon Hershfield|May 5th, 2013|Compulsions, HOCD, Mindfulness, Obsessions, OCD|478 Comments Share This Story, Choose Your Platform! Related Posts Permalink Gallery How to Respond to Unwanted Thoughts Permalink Gallery Introducing Brenda Kijesky, LGMFT Permalink Gallery Relationship-themed OCD (ROCD) Permalink Gallery POCD Part Three: The Groin and Other Junk Permalink Gallery What Makes IOCDF Different 478 Comments sinead quinlan June 7, 2013 at 12:17 pm - Reply I have been in treatment & told by different therapists for the last 4 years that I have intrusive thoughts & ocd, I’ve been on medication &cognitive therapy & have had times when I feel much better & think this isjust ocd but I can’t shake the feeling that its more I “feel” I am gay but I don’t want to be I love my husband & don’t want to leave him but I’m so afraid of wasting his life with me when I’m probably gay even tho it makes me feel sick to my stomach to think it! I’ve read blogs for hocd & they all say u know your not gay because u can’t get aroused by same sex things but I do surely that has to mean something & I’ve been wrongly diagnosed with hocd, sometimes I just wish I could accept being gay & this nightmare would be over! Please help me Jonathan Hershfield June 14, 2013 at 10:54 pm - Reply Hi Sinead, not sure which blogs about HOCD you have been reading, but there are two fundamental problems with the notion that “u know you’re not gay because you can’t get aroused by same sex things…” First, we would have to accept the idea that knowing is a thing of certainty, not assumption. Since certainty does not exist, all of us, with or without intrusive OR wanted same-sex thoughts, are accepting some level of un-certainty about sexual orientation. For a person to say they “know” their orientation, they must either be failing to understand the meaning of the word “know” or be using it as a substitute for “assume”. The other, more troubling, issue with what you’ve been told is the notion that heterosexuals are incapable of same-sex arousal. Anyone can be aroused by anything and this is irrelevant to the issue of who they will choose to love and commit themselves to. Same-sex arousal is not a determining factor in orientation any more than opposite-sex arousal proves that someone is heterosexual. The fear you describe, that you are wasting your husband’s life, is a common one in HOCD. I think it’s important to remember that in order to love someone, it is essential that you allow them to take the risk and love you back. You cannot love them without respecting them and you cannot respect them while considering them foolish for loving you. It sounds like you have tried to engage in some cbt treatment and it was somewhat helpful. Did you do ERP in the course of your therapy? sinead quinlan June 16, 2013 at 2:36 pm - Reply Hi thank you so much for replying! Ya I did a course for ocd last year, I tried doing some experiments but I didn’t find them helpful but I was using detached mindfulness & trying not to obcess, I was also taking 20mg prozac daily & I was doing really well, I’m trying to come off the Prozac now as I want to have a baby but since cutting down I feel awful! I just believe it so much it feels very real that I am gay but then u feel unsure because I don’t know for certain that I am I would just hate it so much if I was. My therapist has started doing schema therapy with me last wk she thinks it will help me get some ans as to why I feel the emotional connection to the thoughts, I’m just so tired of all this I can’t do this over & over for the rest of my life, I think maybe I should just try to accept being gay & then maybe I’ll start to feel like me again, but I don’t want to have to leave my husband but I feel like I’m living a lie. I just never feel any happiness anymore Jonathan Hershfield June 16, 2013 at 7:16 pm - Reply >>>> Ya I did a course for ocd last year, I tried doing some experiments but I didn’t find them helpful but I was using detached mindfulness & trying not to obcess, —Sorry, Sinead, but I’m not sure what any of this means. Doing some experiments is not a program of graduated exposure w/ response prevention. Detached mindfulness is not how mindfulness works (it’s actually the opposite of detaching, but accepting the presence of thoughts). Trying not to obsess is a compulsion. >>>I was also taking 20mg prozac daily & I was doing really well, I’m trying to come off the Prozac now as I want to have a baby but since cutting down I feel awful! —You should talk to your psychiatrist about pregnancy and meds. Many people stay on meds during pregnancy and it’s a matter of what kinds, how much, and what risks are weighed against the risks of a stressful pregnancy due to being unmedicated. >>>I just believe it so much it feels very real that I am gay but then u feel unsure because I don’t know for certain that I am I would just hate it so much if I was. —Since you can’t have certainty about something that is inherently uncertain, you have to settle for evidence. Evidence seems to be that you do not want to be gay, despite having thoughts and feelings that you associate with homosexuality. Since I know lots of people with violent thoughts who do not want to murder people, I think it makes sense to assume that what you want is what you want, not just what you think or feel. >>>My therapist has started doing schema therapy with me last wk she thinks it will help me get some ans as to why I feel the emotional connection to the thoughts, I’m just so tired of all this I can’t do this over & over for the rest of my life, —Explorations of why you keep responding compulsively to your obsessions is not a treatment for ocd. While there may be some benefits to this approach, I can’t imagine how anything but cbt with ERP is going to help you with your OCD. The problem is with doing compulsions, not insight. >>>I think maybe I should just try to accept being gay & then maybe I’ll start to feel like me again, but I don’t want to have to leave my husband but I feel like I’m living a lie. I just never feel any happiness anymore —You do have to accept that whatever you fear could be true, but this is also true for many other things. You might fear that the computer you are reading this on could explode. You choose to accept that thought and use the computer anyway, despite the possibility that it would be very bad indeed if it blew up in your face. You refuse to accept the alternative, which is not using a computer. Same for the HOCD. You do have to accept that the normal, healthy same-sex feelings you experience could also be dark, sinister signs of living a double-life. Accepting this possibility doesn’t make you gay and certainly doesn’t factor in to whether or not you can stay happily married. sinead quinlan June 16, 2013 at 7:38 pm Do you think that because Im cutting down my medication is why I feel so bad again? Every time I get better & then this comes back it feels stronger than before. Do you think this could be a sign that I’m really gay or bisexual as I do have attraction towards men I know that. Is it a possibility that I’m sufferingfrom ocd but im also gay? This feels so real I can’t even describe it its like I know I’m gay but I’m just not willing to accept it Jonathan Hershfield June 16, 2013 at 8:18 pm >>>Do you think that because Im cutting down my medication is why I feel so bad again? —Certainly common for ocd symptoms to worsen when reducing meds. You need to talk to your psychiatrist about it. >>>Every time I get better & then this comes back it feels stronger than before. Do you think this could be a sign that I’m really gay or bisexual as I do have attraction towards men I know that. —Whenever any ocd obsession fades and then returns, the experience of the sufferer is that it’s returned more aggressively. This is because not only was it not appropriately dealt with the first time, but now you have to deal with thoughts and feelings about it being “back.” I don’t think the presence or absence of thoughts are signs of anything. >>>Is it a possibility that I’m sufferingfrom ocd but im also gay? This feels so real I can’t even describe it its like I know I’m gay but I’m just not willing to accept it —Anything is possible, including what you fear. Being possible and being probable are two different things. Being possible and being worth a lot of attention are even farther removed. The way ocd works is that it makes these thoughts/feelings seem very real because over-attending to that feeling is what results in you doing compulsions. If it didn’t feel real, you would just shrug it off. But if you shrugged it off, you wouldn’t be obsessing. The key to overcoming an obsession has to be exposure to the fear that you may be gay, letting go of compulsive strategies for relieving discomfort, commitment to the life of your choosing, and acceptance of the uncertainty about labels. sinead quinlan June 16, 2013 at 10:10 pm What kind of exposure therapy would u think I should do? Jonathan Hershfield June 16, 2013 at 11:49 pm You should probably work with an ocd specialist to determine what exposures and in what way to use them. Some element of it would likely be visual (i.e. watching triggering material while resisting the urge to reassure yourself) and some would almost certainly be imaginal scripting (writing narratives in which you describe the possibility that you are living in denial and detail the feared consequences). But I think in addition to the ERP, it’s really important that you accept the thoughts you are having and, if they are enjoyable, actually enjoy them without delving into what they “mean” about you. This may feel like an exposure, but it’s really an issue of mindfulness. sinead quinlan June 17, 2013 at 5:49 am Thanks ill talk to my therapist about it today. I also want to thank you for writing such a great piece on hocd its very clear & infoemative. I was able to show this to my husband to help him understand what I’m going through. Thank you too for responding to me I actually can’t believe you did! I hope I can overcome this & enjoy the rest of my life:-) Erny October 2, 2013 at 4:51 pm - Reply I am sorry to reply to this comment I just don’t know how leave a comment individually, any how, I am the pinnacle of HOCD is and so you know what I an going through. But the thing that keeps me from moving on is that I have tried climaxing to gay stuff and to a success I met it but it was plain and horrible and I still much don’t like dudes that way still. I can tell if they are attractiv. In a aesthetic way but I always rather be with a gal. I have tried physical stimulation while viewing homoerotica some times it just goes back down other times I feel so uncomfortable that I physically get it a bit erec. But feel different when I do so when I look at women. Also I have likes that are associated to homosexual men such as opera good music interior design poetry man I always wanted to be that pretty boy from the soap operas so I can get a gal from a soap opera, make fashion I would like female fashion but in my mind I would make them go naked lol. But in all seriousness am I in denial or just super obsessing about it. I tried saying that I am gay or bi but.I still feel uncomfortable and objective about same sex relations for.my self I just don’t lik. It. Is it okay not to be gay or bi if you don’t want to? Jonathan Hershfield October 3, 2013 at 4:39 am - Reply >>>>I am sorry to reply to this comment I just don’t know how leave a comment individually, any how, I am the pinnacle of HOCD is and so you know what I an going through. But the thing that keeps me from moving on is that I have tried climaxing to gay stuff and to a success I met it but it was plain and horrible and I still much don’t like dudes that way still. I can tell if they are attractiv. In a aesthetic way but I always rather be with a gal. I have tried physical stimulation while viewing homoerotica some times it just goes back down other times I feel so uncomfortable that I physically get it a bit erec. But feel different when I do so when I look at women. —Analysis of what you are capable of enjoying does not produce meaningful answers about one’s orientation. Instead of trying to see if you enjoy things, spend your time enjoying what you enjoy and stop checking and analyzing. >>>Also I have likes that are associated to homosexual men such as opera good music interior design poetry man —That’s a lazy stereotype. >>> I always wanted to be that pretty boy from the soap operas so I can get a gal from a soap opera, make fashion I would like female fashion but in my mind I would make them go naked lol. But in all seriousness am I in denial or just super obsessing about it. I tried saying that I am gay or bi but.I still feel uncomfortable and objective about same sex relations for.my self I just don’t lik. It. Is it okay not to be gay or bi if you don’t want to? —-Define yourself by your choices, not your thoughts. patricia catherinelo October 29, 2013 at 7:23 pm - Reply Hi again,, Sorry to be commenting so much. Over the past couple day, I keep getting waves of “this is what you want, if you only accept it it’ll be great” along with a surge of did of an uplifting feeling. I tried to say hmm.. look at what my brain is doing.. interesting.. like my therapist tells me to say to my thoughts… But it is so hard if your thoughts are convincing you this is what you want, even tho i have never liked s girl. I keep picturing things in my head, for example; there is this girl that is really pretty in my grade, and she has a boyfriend. I keep thinking am I jelous of her boyfriend? Or I can picture myself being in the closet, pretending i have hocd. I don’t even know what’s real anymore and what im pictureing!I keep thinking maybe I don’t want to het rid of these thoughts because I like them… And whenevet I think omg i actually am I get that uplifting feeling in my stomach, but anxious in my mind. I feel like I actually AK now, like I’ve given up, even tho I still do not like girls. Is this normal for the thoygjt s to convince you that that is what you want? Thank you Jonathan Hershfield November 1, 2013 at 5:43 pm >>>>Hi again,,Sorry to be commenting so much. Over the past couple day, I keep getting waves of “this is what you want, if you only accept it it’ll be great” along with a surge of did of an uplifting feeling. I tried to say hmm.. look at what my brain is doing.. interesting.. like my therapist tells me to say to my thoughts… But it is so hard if your thoughts are convincing you this is what you want, even tho i have never liked s girl. —You don;t sound particularly convinced. Sounds more like you expect the thoughts to be absent because you don;t believe them, and since they are present, you think this must mean you do believe in them. It’s a trap. You might as well be thinking you want to be a unicorn. >>>>I keep picturing things in my head, for example; there is this girl that is really pretty in my grade, and she has a boyfriend. I keep thinking am I jelous of her boyfriend? Or I can picture myself being in the closet, pretending i have hocd. I don’t even know what’s real anymore and what im pictureing!I keep thinking maybe I don’t want to het rid of these thoughts because I like them… And whenevet I think omg i actually am I get that uplifting feeling in my stomach, but anxious in my mind. I feel like I actually AK now, like I’ve given up, even tho I still do not like girls. Is this normal for the thoygjt s to convince you that that is what you want? Thank you —You seem to be confusing the notion of liking certain thoughts with being a certain kind of person. If you have a thought and you find it enjoyable, then enjoy it. Adding some specific label or meaning to it is up to you, but is an independent decision that should not be related to the simple presence of a thought. I enjoy lots of thoughts that are inconsistent with my character and that I will never act on. But I still enjoy them nonetheless. Jonathan Hershfield November 1, 2013 at 7:53 pm Trying to cope with uncertainty when you have OCD is exhausting, especially if you don;t have therapy support and all the tools at your disposal. So it’s very common for people to start telling themselves that they’re gay or they wish they were gay only because it spells relief from the discomfort of uncertainty. Doesn’t last though, like any other compulsion. Meg January 5, 2017 at 3:10 am - Reply Hi dr. Hershfield, All right I think I’ve understood how I can choose to respond to my sexual thoughts, urges and feelings that fall outside the boundaries of what my mind tells me my sexual orientation is. At the end of day, sexuality may be fluid or it may stay the same, I may go from gay to bisexual to straight even to pansexual within the realms of my mind or I may stay one way forever. As you’ve said, anything is possible and based on research on sexuality I wouldn’t be surprised if everyone has the potential to feel attraction to any type of person at one point or another. Thus, it’s highly important to accept my sexuality is as it is. I want to have sex with men exclusively in my real life because it’s what feels right in my heart, mind and loins. And I want to keep same sex fantasies in the fantasy realm because again it’s what feels right in my heart, my mind and my loins. Sure, it’s not exactly socially acceptable to live a life like that. Many would accuse me of being a closeted bisexual, of living a horrible double sided life. But at the end of day it’s my life and if I don’t want to have sex with women, then I don’t have to have sex with women; regardless of what my HOCD likes to tell me. I don’t have to view same sex urges, feelings or fantasies as evidence that my life is going to be wretched without pursuing this in real life. There is more to life than what gender your lover is. Sometimes I like the idea of identifying as bisexual because it’s so badass (I think anyone willing to be themselves unashamedly are delightfully brave people) but when I think about actually living it I’m like meh. Other times I’m like yeah! But honestly any time I’ve had an opportunity I usually don’t feel the drive to take it, maybe that will change one day maybe it won’t.. So now if anyone asks; I’m just sexual. I hope this helps someone else with HOCD who also has genuine same sex attractions without desiring to actually act on them by setting an example. It’s okay to keep fantasies as fantasies; it doesn’t make you a bad person. Now Dr. hershfield, you can tell me if I’m still operating as a slave to HOCD; to be honest I was technically giving into compulsions by seeking reassurance in the article. Sometimes I still feel afraid one day of genuinely wanting to act on fantasies in real life because it is a scary thing sometimes to be different from societal expectations. But if that’s what I want one day, I’ll do it because what the hell why not. I just hope I have the courage to make it. Thank you for such a great resource. Jon Hershfield January 7, 2017 at 9:53 pm - Reply —–Well said! >>>>>Sure, it’s not exactly socially acceptable to live a life like that. —Yes it is. Exactly. >>>>>Many would accuse me of being a closeted bisexual, of living a horrible double sided life. ——Some people sit around all day doing nothing but accusing people of things. Meg January 17, 2017 at 3:51 am Okay, so I do have a question in managing the HOCD (or my obsession with my sexuality). I’m noticing a lot of connections between your advice to people and acceptance and commitment therapy. I am using the book Get out of your head and into your life and I think I might be falling into a trap. You can tell me. In the segment the authors describe person who came into therapy and said that they did not want a family, children or a wife etc but that in fact their fear surrounding it indicated that they valued family and connection and that it was more to do with a fear of being abandoned. So my monstrous brain of course took the opportunity to be like: maybe because you are afraid of living a bisexual life that indicates that you see some value in it and in that case I should pursue it. So trapped in my mind I thought to myself: shit it’s got me now. I’m thinking the best way around these type of triggers is to remember to be guided by my values. But I’m wondering if there is something valuable in expressing bisexuality to me that keeps drawing me back. I like the idea of being bisexual because it seems fearless and free but again I don’t think I’d like the reality of actually living it cause I’d need to have sex with women (don’t think they’d appreciate me not wanting to touch them). I’d almost be a poser in a way; I’m not sure. Or maybe that decision would be fine if I really wanted to do it; after all although we can’t make up the rules of life (how the world operates) we can make up the rules for how we operate and accept the consequences. And if I choose not to follow my value of being fearless and free in terms of being a bisexual (in action) I can always follow that value in other ways since being bisexual would be a goal not a value and values are far more fufilling to put our stakes on than specific goals. Just thinking aloud here. Jon Hershfield January 21, 2017 at 1:43 pm You seem to be trying to get certainty about your thoughts instead of simply accepting them as thoughts and acknowledging that there is uncertainty about their significance. My advice would be to cease efforts to try to be certain you are following your values. Grecia January 27, 2014 at 9:18 pm - Reply May I ask where you stand now w your issue? I’m currently going through the same thing although I��m not married just have been with my boyfriend for 9 years. I currently moved out and wake up in panic attacks thinking I should let him go and live a better life, I have been unable to enjoy time w him due to guilt. Anonymous June 8, 2013 at 7:36 pm - Reply Thank you for this. This is an amazing way to sum up HOCD. It needs to gain more attention, people need to know that HOCD exists and so that they can get help. I’m gonna start working with different OCD foundations to help raise awareness. This is an amazing post. Jonathan Hershfield June 14, 2013 at 10:56 pm - Reply Thanks for the feedback! Happy the article resonated with you and I encourage you to spread the word so more people can get the right help! patricia catherinelo October 24, 2013 at 7:31 pm - Reply Hi, I don’t know if the window has closed on replying to this, but I am going to vent anyway.I’m 14 years old. I have been struggling with Hocd for at least 3 months now, and I have a therapist that I have been seeing for q month and a half. She says its jot ocd, but anxiety. I don’t remember exactly when it started, but i remember a couple of years ago I would lay in my bed, I would think am I gay? Then i would worry for a bit, but I would always know I wasn’t, and I would think, well its ok if I were bi, because then i could choose to like guys. Which proved I wasn’t bi anyway. Then, earlier this summerx I went to a church camp, and there was this video of a girl who was gay because sue was possessed by Satan. I didn’t think much of this at the time, but when I went away this summer, the worry hit me. I have always wanted a boyfriend, and liked guys, but this past year I haven’t really liked anyone, and I would kind of force myself to like people…. My Mom said that was because I wanted to be like all the other girls ky age, boy crazed, but some part of me was thinking, or was it denial? I’m Ik misery… I’ve gone through phases.. at the startx every girl I pllooked at gave me a “turn on” feeling down there and I hated it.. still do.. then when school started I wad worried that I liked this girl, and it scared me so much because why was I worried about one girl? Like I don’t have any experience with boys, not even friend wise. All ky friends are girls, and I’m kinda shy, so even when someone invites me to do somethin with them, or texts me, I feel happy/ excited.. buy its jot like I’m attracted to them… Then I think… Why don’t you want to be Gay soo much? I honestly don’t know.. I rant have fun I’m worried all the time it seems that I can’t get away from it… I’ve worried about things before( fires, the world ending, my parents leaving me, that I would steal something, that I would molest little kids) but nothing as bad as this before. I have tone into modes of surrender, where I jus”give in” to the anxiety, and I feel happy Ik ky stomach, but in my head I’m clawing for a way out, back to jot accepting… Like it makes me feel like maybe I AK, and since I won’t let myself be gay, then maybe I’m compensating with give, so I can have gay thoughts, but jot be gay.. then I feel like nononono… What you said in the article about fear of losing your straight self, is exaclty what I feel.. all my family day its fine if I wad.. and that makes me feel worse. They all say they know I’m not, and that used to help, but now I feel like they are just saying that because they don’t wait me to be gay… I told my mom that and she said, go ahead, be gay! And I felt sooo scared after that…. Right now I’m worried that I like one of ky best friends, because sue is great to talk to and I love hanging out with her, but I don’t wait to date or kiss her…. I’m not trying to sound homophobic, one of ky best friends is gay, but it is not eat I want for me! Please reply, Jonathan Hershfield October 26, 2013 at 3:22 am - Reply Hi Patricia, thanks for your post. That’s brave of you at 14 to come here and share your story. I’m not sure why your therapist is saying that it is not OCD because you clearly describe several common obsessions found in OCD besides the sexual orientation fears. Fearing that your normal positive feelings for your friends are indicators of gayness is a common fear in HOCD. In any case, you need to stop trying to prove to yourself that you are straight and accept that you have all kinds of thoughts and feelings and fears and they don’t need to be figured out. If you want to overcome this obsession, the best way to do this would be with cognitive behavioral therapy and exposure w/ response prevention. You might want to do some more reading about OCD, here’s a page of info specifically for teens that may be helpful: http://ocfoundation.org/ocdinkids/teens_young_adults/do_you_have_ocd.aspx patricia catherine October 26, 2013 at 12:23 pm thank you jon, Yes, I just read that page, and it fits me to a tee. Whenever I call the anxiety over being gay HOCD, my mom says ” patricia, you don’t have ocd. you don’t wash your hands excessively and your not afraid of germs……”. she doesn’t really understand what ocd is, I guess. my therapist is calling it anxiety because she says hocd isn’t in “the manual”, but I definitely do have obsessive thoughts, and I do compulsions ( I always read up on hocd, total time waster). this fear is just killing me. I keep thinking of “evidence” on way I am gay. like I was watching this show on tv, and two girls were “expiramenting”. And I got kind of turned on by that, and thought maybe soeday ill expirament. and I wasn’t anxious, because I thought nothing of it. but now that im so worried about it, it makes it seem like I wanted to be with a girl, which I actually have no desire to do. a lot of things that worry me are things that are kind of “dirty, and I don’t feel comfortable telling my mom about it. another thought I keep having is how aren’t people attracted to girls. they are well groomed, pretty, nice… and then id think, if I was gay, I could be a girl, and be with a girl.( probably that doesn’t make sense). then id think NONONONONO. the way I was thinking of them was in a friends way, I wasn’t picturing myself making out with them or anything. ive been worrying for this so long, I cant see myself not being which scares e so much. Yeah, and im always worrying that I like one of my friends, because there pretty and funny, when really I have no desire to date her. I m sorry, I dont mean to be a bother, but I keep having to ask for reassurance! Jonathan Hershfield October 27, 2013 at 7:28 pm >>>>thank you jon, Yes, I just read that page, and it fits me to a tee. Whenever I call the anxiety over being gay HOCD, my mom says ” patricia, you don’t have ocd. you don’t wash your hands excessively and your not afraid of germs……”. she doesn’t really understand what ocd is, I guess. —-Clearly. >>>>my therapist is calling it anxiety because she says hocd isn’t in “the manual”, but I definitely do have obsessive thoughts, and I do compulsions ( I always read up on hocd, total time waster). —HOCD is not a clinical term, just something sufferers made up to easily articulate themselves. But OCD, obsessive compulsive disorder, is a clinical term and is more than just “anxiety” which is not a disorder. >>>>this fear is just killing me. I keep thinking of “evidence” on way I am gay. like I was watching this show on tv, and two girls were “expiramenting”. And I got kind of turned on by that, and thought maybe soeday ill expirament. and I wasn’t anxious, because I thought nothing of it. but now that im so worried about it, it makes it seem like I wanted to be with a girl, which I actually have no desire to do. —-Being aware that you might enjoy doing something sexually taboo for you is hardly a profound or original concept. What you call “worrying” is just mentally reviewing and analyzing instead of accepting. Getting turned on by something doesn’t provide any useful information about what a person will actually do or what lifestyle a person will ultimately focus on. >>>>a lot of things that worry me are things that are kind of “dirty, and I don’t feel comfortable telling my mom about it. —That’s understandable and would probably become compulsive confessing anyway. >>>>another thought I keep having is how aren’t people attracted to girls. they are well groomed, pretty, nice… and then id think, if I was gay, I could be a girl, and be with a girl.( probably that doesn’t make sense). then id think NONONONONO. the way I was thinking of them was in a friends way, I wasn’t picturing myself making out with them or anything. ive been worrying for this so long, I cant see myself not being which scares e so much. Yeah, and im always worrying that I like one of my friends, because there pretty and funny, when really I have no desire to date her. I m sorry, I dont mean to be a bother, but I keep having to ask for reassurance! —No bother. But also no reassurance. patricia catherine October 26, 2013 at 5:57 pm oh, and also I forgot to say this.. I also masturbated to that thought of the lesbian experimenting, and it wasn’t to test myself, because it was before the hocd kicked in. im really scared, and I just feel sick about it! please tell me that’s not a sign of being bisexual… it was a one time thing :(( Jonathan Hershfield October 27, 2013 at 7:29 pm If it is something you enjoy and doesn’t result in people going from being alive to being dead, I think you should do it more and allow yourself to enjoy it without needing to find meaning in it. Tim June 14, 2013 at 3:21 am - Reply Dr . Im 14 I started out watching straight porn . Then I started watching gay porn . I started to look at men differently but i also had feelings for women . I found out that it is natural to look at men and think that they are attractive . But now i think im gay . I do feel as if those compulsions are true . I just recently started looking at straight porn again it does get me excited just as gay porn did . I used to always get hard at men , but i dont now . Is this normal ? Am i Gay / Straight ? Thanks ! Jonathan Hershfield June 15, 2013 at 1:04 am - Reply I can’t tell someone what orientation they are from a blog comment, nor would I be able to offer much of an opinion based on what porn they enjoy. People get aroused by a variety of things and trying to label yourself based on that probably doesn’t make much sense. Rather than engaging in compulsive checking with pornography use, I would suggest enjoying whatever thoughts you enjoy and letting time decide who you want to actually be with one day. I would encourage you to not confuse pornography with reality though, at your age or any age really. patricia catherinelo October 27, 2013 at 8:09 pm - Reply Thanks again, this is just so hard. My thoughts keep trying to convince me its true, and that I want to be. It’s like a pro/con list in my head with all the pros to liking girls, and I feel like if i just except them this will all go away.. im also on a low dosage of prozac, but that doesn’t seam to be helping. I feel sick with worry all the time. I’ve had to keep looking up hocd all the time. I think its awesome that you bother to reply to everyone, thank you for the help,bi hope I get better soon! LoLa June 22, 2013 at 3:29 pm - Reply I know in fact that I have HOCD for a month, but it’s getting worse. I constantly reassure that I have HOCD, some day, I feel like I’m in denial. Yesterday, I did an exposure by watching picture of Sophia Swanson (lesbian characters) kissing other girls and coming out front of her parents, I did exposure other stuffs, but it makes me very uncomfortable. I had a dream that I about lesbian and make me thinking that I enjoy it but it makes me more anxious. The problem is that I easily doubting myself and I tend to be very impatience. When I do see an attractive guy, wow he’s cute, my mind is doubting me stating ya right, you are not attractive to him. I have no problem with lesbian or gay, but lately I have become obsessed that I thought I could be like them. Jonathan Hershfield June 23, 2013 at 5:55 pm - Reply Hi Lola, while I can’t diagnose you from a blog comment, it certainly sounds from what you describe like you are dealing with HOCD. Exposure w/ response prevention requires patience, time, consistency, and a commitment to resisting compulsions, so it’s hard work. Are you in treatment? Lola June 25, 2013 at 7:25 pm - Reply I can’t afford to see a psychologist. I’m willing to be patience with erp therapy and resist compulsive. Lola June 26, 2013 at 5:26 pm - Reply 1. It’s possible for a HOCD sufferers to question their own and other’s people secuality? (I over-analyze my own and other.) 2. Its possible for a HOCD sufferers to constantly have unwanted thoughts about themselves and other’s same sex couple? 3. It’s possible to suddenly turn gay even if the thoughts try to convince eventhought I have no desire to have a relationship or have sex. 4. It’s possible for HOCD to suddenly feel uncomftoable around LBGT people? 5. It’s possible to have less thoughts of the opposite sex? Jonathan Hershfield June 28, 2013 at 10:55 pm - Reply 1. It’s possible for a HOCD sufferers to question their own and other’s people secuality? (I over-analyze my own and other.) —Yes. More importantly, it’s normal to have these types of thoughts without OCD. The thoughts are normal events. The OCD is what makes them appear so threatening. 2. Its possible for a HOCD sufferers to constantly have unwanted thoughts about themselves and other’s same sex couple? —An obsession is an unwanted intrusive thought. People with obsessions about sexual orientation have thoughts like these, yes. 3. It’s possible to suddenly turn gay even if the thoughts try to convince eventhought I have no desire to have a relationship or have sex. —No idea. I don’t know what it means to “turn gay” and have only ever heard of it in the context of something HOCD sufferers are afraid of. 4. It’s possible for HOCD to suddenly feel uncomftoable around LBGT people? —Discomfort around LGBT people or anything that triggers unwanted thoughts about an obsession is common. 5. It’s possible to have less thoughts of the opposite sex? —If I understand the question, yes, it is common for people with HOCD to experience heightened intrusive thoughts about another orientation and dampened thoughts/feelings about their own orientation. Part of this has to do with anxiety reducing libido and compulsive checking reducing the presence of expected feelings. steven July 2, 2013 at 2:20 am - Reply I’ve had HOCD for about 3 years. I didn’t know i had hocd until i got diagnosed with ocd and actually starting reasearching it. I litterally thought i was in denial for 3 years and would perform mental compulsions without even knowing it. I eventually got so bad that i started checking guys for attraction. I would be so scared to look up OCD because everytime i saw the word gay, homosexual, or bisexual i would get a spike of anxiety that sent me into mental rituals right away. Finnaly looking up OCD i realized that my life isn’t over. I even considered that one day i might have to commit suicide for this suffering to be over or that i would just have to come out as bisexual when i knew it gave me extreme anxiety and i knew i didn’t like that. I never actually got to the point of watching gay porn for reasurance but i still do avoid certain situations, tv shows, anyone thats of an attractive male but to a less of extent since being on an SSRI. My other sexual ocd themes are incest and pedophile ocd but those are a lesser extent compared to hocd. Hocd and Pocd also haunt me in my dreams where molestations and gay stuff will happen and i will wake up with anxiety but never sexual arousal which is probably the only way i get back to sleep after having such bad anxiety. I know i need ERP. I’m just scared to go through it but i know its the only way to go since medication only makes symptoms not as scary but never fully goes away. Jonathan Hershfield July 4, 2013 at 3:11 pm - Reply Hi Steven, thanks for sharing your story. It’s pretty common for people with HOCD to also have other sexual obsessions. The overriding fear is that you are sexually “off” somehow, so the OCD will present you with whatever inappropriate thing it can come up with. It’s also very common for this to show up in dreams, but I think you need to remember that all people dream of all things. The OCD just makes some content seem more important than other content. ERP is scary, no sense in me lying about that. But if you work with someone who actually specializes in treating OCD, they’ll be able to guide you through the ERP process in such a way that you can actually reclaim ownership of your mind from the OCD. Alexandra July 3, 2013 at 8:38 pm - Reply I’ve been worrying since April that I am gay.. Think it might have started when I watched a movie and it had 2 girls having sex, although it didn’t actually show anything it was implied in a very weird way (scary movie 5 ). I was like shocked during the entire scene and a little weirded out . But after I was worrying if I liked it..then I started worrying OMG could I be, what if I am. Then after a while it went to OMG maybe I am , then to OMG I think I am what if I am ..and finally after a Panic attack one night I was thinking omg i am i am (though i had massive anxiety the entire time, i hated th e thought and still do) ever since i’ve been worrying about many different things, I would get a thought in my head and worry and freak out about it until I talked to someone and calmed myself down, then another thing would pop into my head and the cycle would repeat.. Things like I would worry wheAther I want to have sex with a girl, i worried that maybei liked a girls vagina more than a guys penis (sorry awkward), worrying that i no longer felt as much of an attraction towards guys as i used to, or worrying that I’m attracted to girls, that maybe I really do want to be with a girl..but while I’m thinking about all this and worrying about it all I keep getting anxiety non stop, my head is saying all of this but I feel sick when I think about it, I don’t want any of it to be true, I want to be straight like I thought I was before I started worrying. I don’t want any of it. I have talked to a lot of my family about this and cried and worried to them a lot. All of them say that they honestly don’t think I am because they know me, I have always been interested in boys, I have had crushes on mulitpul boys including an obsession with justin bieber (I loved him so much) and I finally sort of got over my obsession with him just before I started worrying, I have always been attracted to guys. And I have always wanted a boyfriend (never had one though which is embarrassing because I’m 16) …I have also always been what my family called a worry wart, and now that the topic of ocd has been brought up it makes sense to every single one of my family members that I obsessed or so many things and worried so much. When I was little I was so terrified that there would be a house fire, that vampires were real and a threat to me, that volcanoes were near me and could erupt and kill me. (I couldnt even sleep on the floor because i was scared that a volcano would erupt and the lava would get to me) I would not be able to stop worrying unless my parents showed me in a text book kind of way that it is not real or not true. I always needed some sort of proof. Last year I also had a worry that I wanted to commit suicide, it was like my mind was saying yes you want to kill yourself but I really honestly didnt want to. It started because I had a fight with my mom and I thought “how would she feel if I committed suicide” then I freaked out wondering why I thout that,a nd it went downhill from there. Back to my point, I have been worrying so much that I am gay and these thoughts feel real and I don’t want any of them to be, I’m not homophobic or anything I know people who are bi and they’re my friends and I’m fine with it, I support it completely..I just really don’t want it for me! Sometimes I worry that OMG maybe I do like girls or maybe I do really wanna be with a girl, but I honestly don’t want to be at all. I get so much anxiety and all I keep thinking is no no no. I keep having to talk about my worries to my family to try and hear that my worries aren’t real, or that they’re normal thoughts. And if I hear that I feel a little better, that is until another worry pops into my head. My councelor I was talking to asked me if I had a crush on a girl and I said no ..then after I started worrying that maybe I actually did.. And it went through people I knew, I started worrying that I had one on a friend in my class last semester of school. I worried that I did so much…but I knew I never once thought I wanted to date her, Or kiss her..it wasn’t what I wantedand it never even entered my mind when i was with her..I just really liked her as a friend but for some reason I was still so scared that I had a crush on her, I didn’t want o have had Anne on her becaus I didn’t want to like girls..I knew I had crushes on boys and I was fine with that, so that’s why I think I know it was just my head because I really honestly never thoughts wanted to date her, I only started worrying about it after I was already worrying about everything else, and my mum said that if she had Charisma it draws people to them. So it made me feel a bit better, though I’m still worrying..I know I don’t want to date her though, and I know I never thought it then but my mind messes with me.. Once I also worried for a bit that when I was younger I kissed my best friend when I know for a FACT I NEVER did, but it scared me so much that my mind was saying oh maybe you did. But I know I never did (I know this all sound so confusing I’m sure) I know this is all my mind somehow because I never ever thought about this before and now it’s gotten so bad in just 3 months 🙁 I don’t know what to do, I’m going to see a psychologist on Friday and I really hope she can diagnose me with hocd because that what everyone else says it is..I just need real confirmation ..I need facts from a doctor just like I needed answers when I as worried about everything else. I’m so scared but I really need help ..I want to be straight and I don’t want to be thinking any of this at all. I feel like crap non stop because all I ever do is worry :(. Please if you can help in any way telling me these thouts sound like hocd thoughts. Oh also before I was worrying about this for about a year I was always scared that people would think that I was, I didn’t want them to think I was gay because well I wasn’t ..but when I went to the. Movies with a friend I as worried people would think we were on a date or something, so I would talk about their boyfriend or something so people knew that we weren’t. I know it’s stupid but I was so scared people would think I was because I never had a boyfriend like they did. Also at the beginning of last year a guy just straight out asked me if I was a lesbian, I got very upset about it , especially because the boy i had a crush on was standing rit next to him..I think that’s how the whole worrying that people would think that I was started. ..is this something that could also be a part of hocd? My mum looked up a lot on hocd and she said everything on there describes me to a tee and she knows that’s what it is. All my family is perfectly fine if I was gay and I know that, but when I hear them say they’re okay with it instead of relief (which I guess people who really are gay get) I just feel anxiety because someone is pretty much saying well you could be.. I can’t hear that I don’t like hearing it. I don’t like the thought of spending the rest of my life with a girl. ..but please does this even sound like hocd to you? Like it could be 🙁 I feel so horrible I just don’t want to be having these horrible thoughts in my head I don’t want any of them to be true or become true Jonathan Hershfield July 5, 2013 at 3:20 pm - Reply Hi Alexandra, I will try to answer some of your questions below: >>>I’ve been worrying since April that I am gay.. Think it might have started when I watched a movie and it had 2 girls having sex, although it didn’t actually show anything it was implied in a very weird way (scary movie 5 ). I was like shocked during the entire scene and a little weirded out . But after I was worrying if I liked it..then I started worrying OMG could I be, what if I am. Then after a while it went to OMG maybe I am , then to OMG I think I am what if I am ..and finally after a Panic attack one night I was thinking omg i am i am (though i had massive anxiety the entire time, i hated th e thought and still do) —This is a common trajectory for all obsessions. Basically you started off on the wrong foot by worrying about liking it. Worrying is a behavior we engage in when we assume something is wrong and want to feel prepared to cope with it when we have no control over it. The idea of worrying about liking something is intrinsically distorted since liking or disliking things is not something we control, just something we experience. But because you set it up to assume that liking it would be unacceptable, you basically told yourself to be certain you don’t like it. Mind you none of this has anything to do with gay or not gay. I can like the love scenes in Brokeback Mountain without wanting to have sex with a man. Anyway, when you try to suppress a thought, it causes a reaction in the brain that makes it more present and more aggressive. (try not to think about pink elephants). The reason your anxiety escalated was because of this. It can be de-escalated by engaging in the opposite behavior, which is treating the scene in the movie like a scene in a movie, the what-if thoughts about your orientation like thoughts and the uncomfortable feelings like uncomfortable feelings. >>>ever since i’ve been worrying about many different things, I would get a thought in my head and worry and freak out about it until I talked to someone and calmed myself down, then another thing would pop into my head and the cycle would repeat.. Things like I would worry wheAther I want to have sex with a girl, i worried that maybei liked a girls vagina more than a guys penis (sorry awkward), worrying that i no longer felt as much of an attraction towards guys as i used to, or worrying that I’m attracted to girls, that maybe I really do want to be with a girl..but while I’m thinking about all this and worrying about it all I keep getting anxiety non stop, my head is saying all of this but I feel sick when I think about it, I don’t want any of it to be true, I want to be straight like I thought I was before I started worrying. I don’t want any of it. I have talked to a lot of my family about this and cried and worried to them a lot. All of them say that they honestly don’t think I am because they know me, I have always been interested in boys, I have had crushes on mulitpul boys including an obsession with justin bieber (I loved him so much) and I finally sort of got over my obsession with him just before I started worrying, I have always been attracted to guys. And I have always wanted a boyfriend (never had one though which is embarrassing because I’m 16) …I have also always been what my family called a worry wart, and now that the topic of ocd has been brought up it makes sense to every single one of my family members that I obsessed or so many things and worried so much. When I was little I was so terrified that there would be a house fire, that vampires were real and a threat to me, that volcanoes were near me and could erupt and kill me. (I couldnt even sleep on the floor because i was scared that a volcano would erupt and the lava would get to me) I would not be able to stop worrying unless my parents showed me in a text book kind of way that it is not real or not true. I always needed some sort of proof. Last year I also had a worry that I wanted to commit suicide, it was like my mind was saying yes you want to kill yourself but I really honestly didnt want to. It started because I had a fight with my mom and I thought “how would she feel if I committed suicide” then I freaked out wondering why I thout that,a nd it went downhill from there. —-This all sounds like pretty straight-forward OCD to me. Your loved ones’ attempts to accomodate your compulsive reassurance seeking only perpetuates the problem, but then they don’t know that because you’re not framing it as OCD. >>>>Back to my point, I have been worrying so much that I am gay and these thoughts feel real and I don’t want any of them to be, I’m not homophobic or anything I know people who are bi and they’re my friends and I’m fine with it, I support it completely..I just really don’t want it for me! Sometimes I worry that OMG maybe I do like girls or maybe I do really wanna be with a girl, but I honestly don’t want to be at all. I get so much anxiety and all I keep thinking is no no no. —This concept of “feeling” gay makes very little sense outside of the context of OCD. People don;t sit around feeling “straight”. They just have whatever experiences they have and if they are oriented toward having them with one sex over another, we give them a label. The fear of the feelings being “real” is a common OCD fear. Consider that if the OCD didn’t make it feel real, you wouldn’t put so much effort into compulsively proving you were straight. >>>I keep having to talk about my worries to my family to try and hear that my worries aren’t real, or that they’re normal thoughts. And if I hear that I feel a little better, that is until another worry pops into my head. —This is a compulsion. >>>My councelor I was talking to asked me if I had a crush on a girl and I said no ..then after I started worrying that maybe I actually did.. And it went through people I knew, I started worrying that I had one on a friend in my class last semester of school. I worried that I did so much…but I knew I never once thought I wanted to date her, Or kiss her..it wasn’t what I wantedand it never even entered my mind when i was with her..I just really liked her as a friend but for some reason I was still so scared that I had a crush on her, I didn’t want o have had Anne on her becaus I didn’t want to like girls.. —This is a compulsion to, a mental ritual to weigh hypotheses for the purpose of trying to prove you are straight. You will need to reject this behavior as part of the problem you are having. >>>I knew I had crushes on boys and I was fine with that, so that’s why I think I know it was just my head because I really honestly never thoughts wanted to date her, I only started worrying about it after I was already worrying about everything else, and my mum said that if she had Charisma it draws people to them. So it made me feel a bit better, though I’m still worrying..I know I don’t want to date her though, and I know I never thought it then but my mind messes with me.. Once I also worried for a bit that when I was younger I kissed my best friend when I know for a FACT I NEVER did, but it scared me so much that my mind was saying oh maybe you did. But I know I never did (I know this all sound so confusing I’m sure) I know this is all my mind somehow because I never ever thought about this before and now it’s gotten so bad in just 3 months I don’t know what to do, I’m going to see a psychologist on Friday and I really hope she can diagnose me with hocd because that what everyone else says it is..I just need real confirmation ..I need facts from a doctor just like I needed answers when I as worried about everything else. I’m so scared but I really need help ..I want to be straight and I don’t want to be thinking any of this at all. I feel like crap non stop because all I ever do is worry . Please if you can help in any way telling me these thouts sound like hocd thoughts. —This whole paragraph is one big ritual to try to “figure it out” when there actually i no thing to figure out. You have an obsession and you are doing compulsions. That is what needs to be stopped, not the thoughts themselves. >>>Oh also before I was worrying about this for about a year I was always scared that people would think that I was, I didn’t want them to think I was gay because well I wasn’t ..but when I went to the. Movies with a friend I as worried people would think we were on a date or something, so I would talk about their boyfriend or something so people knew that we weren’t. I know it’s stupid but I was so scared people would think I was because I never had a boyfriend like they did. Also at the beginning of last year a guy just straight out asked me if I was a lesbian, I got very upset about it , especially because the boy i had a crush on was standing rit next to him..I think that’s how the whole worrying that people would think that I was started. ..is this something that could also be a part of hocd? —I think you probably know the answer to this question but want to hear it from an ocd specialists. >>>My mum looked up a lot on hocd and she said everything on there describes me to a tee and she knows that’s what it is. All my family is perfectly fine if I was gay and I know that, but when I hear them say they’re okay with it instead of relief (which I guess people who really are gay get) I just feel anxiety because someone is pretty much saying well you could be.. I can’t hear that I don’t like hearing it. I don’t like the thought of spending the rest of my life with a girl. ..but please does this even sound like hocd to you? Like it could be I feel so horrible I just don’t want to be having these horrible thoughts in my head I don’t want any of them to be true or become true —What is your plan for getting cognitive behavioral therapy from someone who specializes in OCD? Alexandra July 8, 2013 at 3:53 pm - Reply I have an appointment with an ocd specialist on he 18th, but I’m just worried that it won’t help. I’m scared that its all real. Now i just seem to keep noticing every girl i see, every picture, every person that walks by, girls on tv..everything and I hate it so much. Now i get scared that it means its all real ..Like sometimes I start to think that OMG it is real ..and it starts to feel like I know I am and my anxiety isn’t as bad as it was and then i get scared ..I don’t want to be gay. I don’t want to be noticing girls. I want to get help and it to go away..I just am so worried that its all real 🙁 ..thanks for replying, I just hope now that everything will start to get better 🙁 Jonathan Hershfield July 8, 2013 at 8:34 pm - Reply Noticing girls is not the problem. Responding to the fact that you notice them in the way you have been responding — THAT is the problem. It’s ok to be scared. Everyone is scared to see an ocd specialist because of the fear that the specialist will address their concerns as something other than OCD, doesn’t matter what the obsession is. You’re doing the right thing getting help. Try to engage in the treatment with an open mind, remembering that your current strategy of doing compulsions has not produced the results you are looking for. Isma July 6, 2013 at 2:59 pm - Reply I think i have HOCD, i’m not sure let me tell you my story ( sorry for my bad english ), It was in february 2012, I was in love with a girl and she did not want me, she made me in friendzone, and then i wrote on google friendships with mens and womens, and then i saw .gay peoples are always friends with girls i was like OMG you’re gay man, and i was trying to reassure me it’s okay you can’t be gay you always fall in love with girls and loved boobs remember yesterday this girl she excited you, and then after this a friend spoke about gay people, and he told me imagine you are gay let me see your hands he saw the length of my fingers and he told me omg man you’re gaay i was so anxious i returned at home to try to reassure myself i was trying to watch a straight porn like i used to do and there I felt that I was no longer attracted by women like i was before, since this day i’m suffring i’m trying to tell to myself that i’m not gay but my mind tell my the opposite he told me that i’m gay and i can’t stop to watch guy’s and my friends and i’m imagining having sex with my friends and watch women to try to be excited like before, it’s like i was straight but now i’m gay unintetionally… but i don’t want to be gay…. It’s not me I would not be happy with a man i always loved womens…. and now i’m telling to myself it’s like i’m having this excuseto avoid the horror of being homosexual, i’m not homophobic but i don’t want to be gay it’s not me i want a women…. Sorry for my bad english because i speak frensh Jonathan Hershfield July 7, 2013 at 11:45 pm - Reply Hi Isma, thanks for writing. >>>I think i have HOCD, i’m not sure let me tell you my story ( sorry for my bad english ), It was in february 2012, I was in love with a girl and she did not want me, she made me in friendzone, and then i wrote on google friendships with mens and womens, and then i saw .gay peoples are always friends with girls i was like OMG you’re gay man —Is this something you believe or just something you are afraid of? The notion that being friends with girls is some sort of homosexual signal is, well, silly, no? >>>and i was trying to reassure me it’s okay you can’t be gay you always fall in love with girls and loved boobs remember yesterday this girl she excited you, —So this kind of mental behavior is a common compulsion in HOCD. You need to consider that when you are doing it, though it may make you feel better, you are basically telling your brain that your sexuality is under attack. By reassuring yourself, you are also saying there is something very important you need to reassure yourself about. This would have to stop in order for the obsession to go way. >>>and then after this a friend spoke about gay people, and he told me imagine you are gay let me see your hands he saw the length of my fingers and he told me omg man you’re gaay —I’m confused again – is this finger test something you believe or something silly that scared you even though you don’t believe it? >>>i was so anxious i returned at home to try to reassure myself i was trying to watch a straight porn like i used to do and there I felt that I was no longer attracted by women like i was before, since this day i’m suffring i’m trying to tell to myself that i’m not gay but my mind tell my the opposite he told me that i’m gay and i can’t stop to watch guy’s and my friends and i’m imagining having sex with my friends and watch women to try to be excited like before, it’s like i was straight but now i’m gay unintetionally… but i don’t want to be gay…. It’s not me I would not be happy with a man i always loved womens…. and now i’m telling to myself it’s like i’m having this excuseto avoid the horror of being homosexual, i’m not homophobic but i don’t want to be gay it’s not me i want a women…. Sorry for my bad english because i speak frensh —You are describing a lot of common OCD symptoms and are engaging in a lot of compulsions that are making your obsession more powerful. My recommendation is to seek out an OCD specialist in you country and do cognitive behavioral therapy to address this problem. If there are no local treatment providers, you might look into doing therapy via skype with someone in another country. Isma July 6, 2013 at 3:13 pm - Reply When i saw a guy outside for example i imagine myself kissing him, and i feel like something in my groin i become really really anxious…..Before all this i’d never seen a men i was SURE REALLY SURE that i love womens And now when i watch porn i can’t stop telling myself it’s not the girl you want it’s the men look at he’s dick you like it ? And it makes me really anxious…. I don’t understand Whyyy i have all this questions ? I USED TO LOVE WOMENS and even when i have this questions…. I can get excited with girls and when i do i’m like ouf look you are excited you are not gay after few minutes i see for example a photo of a men and i tell myself omg you like it look at he’s muscles…. and i become anxious, i have this questions 24H/24 Even when i sleep i dream of it………. if ever I go to hell I would not be surprised Jonathan Hershfield July 7, 2013 at 11:47 pm - Reply This “imagining” exercise is actually a mental ritual. I call it scenario bending. You come up with a hypothetical situation in your imagination (i.e. what if I were kissing this man?) and then you analyze how it makes you feel. Because the thought is anxiety-producing, you end up analyzing why you feel anxious/activated. This may include compulsively checking your groin, which causes groinal sensations, which you then obsessively analyze as well. It’s a trap. I strongly suggest you get help for your OCD. Isma July 8, 2013 at 12:08 am - Reply Thank you man, it’s really painfull i don’t know who i am like i used to be before all this, all i want is to return like what i was before all this, i feel like ’m not as attracted to members of the opposite sex as I used to be, It’s hell Jonathan Hershfield July 8, 2013 at 8:24 pm - Reply If you want to get your sense of attraction back again, you have to stop checking and analyzing how attracted you are. Hang in there. Rachel July 9, 2013 at 9:42 pm - Reply Hello, is it normal to get intrusive thoughts of people you think are mentors, and you think you may “like” them? Jonathan Hershfield July 10, 2013 at 5:11 am - Reply Hi Rachel, I don’t think HOCD or sexual obsessions in general hold anyone in particular sacred. Makes sense that someone you want approval from could be an easy target for the OCD. True story – yesterday I was taking a spin class and the instructor (a very fit man who is clearly adored by the packed class) was walking around checking everyone’s form. I’m no pro, but really wanted him to notice how hard I was cycling. Guess he was a kind of exercise mentor in that moment. I kept thinking “pick me, pick me” and sure enough he came by, looked me in the eye and said, “Nice.” Butterflies. That was my response. Butterflies in my stomach. Still not gay. Let your thoughts come and go, Rachel, and don’t presume they define you. Ayan July 12, 2013 at 6:45 pm - Reply Hi today I went to see the psychologist for a consultation and I explain my situation (fear of harming myself, fear of illness and fear of becoming gay.) and no once that he mention OCD until I told that I did research on HOCD and pure OCD, he assume that I have only have anxiety, fear of heights and may have sexuality issues. I had to explain that I’m not attracted emotionally and sexually toward women and I don’t have desire to have relationship with a woman. Now I’m scared that if I disclose that I previous watched and dream about lesbian. Jonathan Hershfield July 13, 2013 at 3:35 pm - Reply Hi Ayan, sorry your psychologist does not make you feel comfortable sharing your thoughts. Since it requires only a basic understanding of OCD to recognize how harm fears, health anxiety, and sexual obsessions fit into the disorder, this would suggest your psychologist doesn’t know much about it. This doesn’t mean that there is danger in talking about your obsessions. The real concern is whether they are going to be able to guide you through cognitive behavioral therapy and ERP. Rachel July 14, 2013 at 12:48 am - Reply thanks doctor. my anxiety seems to get the worst of me when I wake up, and my thoughts tell me I like same sex thoughts. before the trigger to this whole situation, I only had opposite sex thoughts that had not bothered me at all, because that was and is the orientation I desire. im afraid I wont be able to be with the opposite sex anymore, and that is painful. I have an appointment with a therapist this week, and I am afraid that they will label me and think I have sexuality issues. Jonathan Hershfield July 14, 2013 at 3:45 pm - Reply Fearing liking something only makes sense if you believe that liking something means that’s what you need to label yourself. I like killing innocent people in video games. I don’t think this has anything to do with whether or not I am a harm to society. Instead of resisting the idea that you could like a same-sex thought, allow yourself to have whatever experience you have and don;t assume that it means something about who you are. The fear of not being “able” to be with the opposite sex anymore is common in HOCD. Trying to prove to yourself that this won’t happen only makes you brain think there is some reason to doubt. It’s a trap. As for the therapist, it;s normal to be afraid, but if it is an ocd specialist, they will easily be able to identify that you are dealing with obsessions and compulsions. Ayan July 14, 2013 at 9:20 pm - Reply 1. It’s possible for a teen to question their sexuality because when I was teen I thought/convinced once that I was a lesbian. (I never knew until someone who is lesbian explain to me.) 2. I tend to focus mostly on the unimportant things in my life. 3. I admit that I watch lesbian porn and read yuri manga (girlXgirl) but I did it out of curiosity. 3. I never genuinely had desire to be with a woman (emotionally, physically or sexually.) 4. I’m panicking because I read on answers.yahoo where a person thought that they’re gay but it was a false alarm but the responses states that he was gay in denial. 5. The only time I thought/fantasized about when it is when I was lesbian porn or something that relate to lesbianism. (I start to watch when I was a teen because my friend mentions a movie and I only did it because they all watch it, I wanted it fit in) 6. It could be that I had OCD when I was young but I didn’t know about it. When I was a kid, my dad left to see a friend and didn’t came back that night and I thought that he was killed in car accident, I couldn’t sleep. 7. it is wrong for girl to check another girl’s body, I did when I was young but I never feel aroused but only jealous that they have better body than mine. Jonathan Hershfield July 14, 2013 at 9:51 pm - Reply 1. It’s possible for a teen to question their sexuality because when I was teen I thought/convinced once that I was a lesbian. (I never knew until someone who is lesbian explain to me.) —I don’t know if you are telling me this or asking me if this is true. But yes, people question their sexuality and teens question it a lot. 2. I tend to focus mostly on the unimportant things in my life. —OK. 3. I admit that I watch lesbian porn and read yuri manga (girlXgirl) but I did it out of curiosity. —-It sounds like you are confessing and trying to get reassurance here. That’s compulsive and keeping your obsession alive. 3. I never genuinely had desire to be with a woman (emotionally, physically or sexually.) —Some part of you knows this is reassurance because you called this point #3 as well! 4. I’m panicking because I read on answers.yahoo where a person thought that they’re gay but it was a false alarm but the responses states that he was gay in denial. —Reading what a person (including me) says on the internet is not evidence of facts. The kind of research you appear to be doing on yahoos answers should be looked at as a compulsion. Instead of washing your hands of contaminants, you are trying to wash your mind of these thoughts you find contaminating. 5. The only time I thought/fantasized about when it is when I was lesbian porn or something that relate to lesbianism. (I start to watch when I was a teen because my friend mentions a movie and I only did it because they all watch it, I wanted it fit in) —Confession/reassurance compulsion. 6. It could be that I had OCD when I was young but I didn’t know about it. When I was a kid, my dad left to see a friend and didn’t came back that night and I thought that he was killed in car accident, I couldn’t sleep. —That must have been very upsetting for you. It’s not necessarily a sign of OCD as I think a lot of kids might have these thoughts and be upset by them, but it wouldn’t surprise me if had ocd since then anyway. 7. it is wrong for girl to check another girl’s body, I did when I was young but I never feel aroused but only jealous that they have better body than mine. —I don’t know what you are trying to say here or why it is wrong to look at a person’s body, but I suspect this is another way of you trying to seek reassurance. Rachel July 15, 2013 at 3:10 pm - Reply I’m not asking for reassurance, but for a week my obessions have focused on another theme, and my fears of being a lesbian were gone, replaced by the thought of possible being a transexual. Then, my fears of being a lesbian relapsed, and I’m back in the same boat. Can you have relapses in ocd? Jonathan Hershfield July 17, 2013 at 2:03 pm - Reply OCD is considered a chronic disorder, meaning it is something that waxes and wanes throughout one’s life and the better you are at managing the symptoms, the better you can minimize the presence of those symptoms, the less of a burden it is overall. Relapse is a word often used to describe symptoms flaring up. I think what’s important to remember is that the content of your thoughts is not the issue. It’s not important that “lesbian” thoughts “came back.” What came back was responding to thoughts like they were threats. jack July 21, 2013 at 4:49 am - Reply i’m 17 yr old male and i’ve been suffering from hocd on and off for the past six months. but the thing is earlier i used to feel disgusted of unwanted gay thoughts which gets popped up in my head but now i dont get that much disgusted as i used to get earlier (i’m sorry i’m not trying to be homophobic) but what i’ve is only fear and due to this i feel like i’m more sexually attracted to the opposite sex and i lost my impulse. whenever i see some handsome men on the road i get spiked and i feel distracted and return home. prior to the onset of hocd i was 100% confident about my sexuality. but these obsessions feel real to me. but at some point i realize these obsessions were fake.but what i fear now is i’ve heard that some people with hocd are still gay, its just that their fears were so extreme that it refused them from accepting their true nature? is this true? Jonathan Hershfield July 21, 2013 at 6:02 pm - Reply Hi Jack, I can;t give much of an opinion on the experience of some people I have never met. What I can tell you is that what you described is what a lot of HOCD sufferers describe and rather than trying to prove your obsessions are false, you need to stop responding to them like they are important. This would include accepting that you may get distracted sometimes and not changing your plans in spite of this. Hannah July 25, 2013 at 3:28 am - Reply I am a twenty year old girl who has been seriously struggling lately. I have always had OCD (diagnosed as of three years ago) symptoms throughout my life (first was religious fears in third grade when I became obsessed with the Bible, then came fears of having a heart disorder at eight when I noticed my heart would sped up when anxious, then came an obsession about pregnancy when my parents gave me the sex talk at ten, the list goes on and on)…for a while, these obsessions died down but came back with a vengeance just last year, when I obsessed about plagiarism (I never plagiarized), HIV (took a test, resisted taking more), Genital warts fear (went to two doctors, told I was fine) but then came the worst obsession of my life: the fear of being a pedophile and this is where HOCD comes in. When I first had the “POCD”, I felt nothing but anxiety, this continued for several months and groinal responses occurred with this obsession, along with a fear of touching children (I had to sit on my hands, terrified I would touch a child). this fear of touching children morphed into touching anyone inappropriately. One day my roommate was leaning over me, showing me a website and my kept telling me to touch her even though I was screaming at my thoughts to stop it. When she left, I sat on my bed, wondering why I wanted to touch her so bad (I knew it was OCD, but maybe I was questioning it because I am gay, I don’t know anymore)…then came the thought. Because you’re gay. It was more like a realization and I felt super happy, like I’d discovered something…until I thought…wait, that doesn’t make any sense, I have always liked guys, I have never had crushes on girls and I have enjoyed sex with men…then the panic came crashing down on me, but for some reason it wasn’t as terrifying as the other ocd’s, which is why this scares me. The arousals feel much more genuine than POCD and I feel like I could like a girl but I test and I test and I never find a true answer but during this all, I had a crush on a guy (and, the day before this started, I remember researching pocd and thinking well maybe the same theory for treating hocd will work for pocd even though I have no doubts about my sexuality as I like so-and-so)….this has been going on for six months now, I am scared out of my mind. One more thing I might add, when I calmed down, the women whom I felt “attracted” to lost their attraction and I felt my attraction to men come back again and one of my friends kissed me, I felt SUPER disgusted. Please help me, I feel gay now 🙁 I went to a doctor on campus, hoping for help but I could not afford the ERP needed and I feel like this real. these attractions to women feel unnatural and strange and not as happy and wonderful as the ones I have had with guys…I am also scared because with my last boyfriend, the first half of my relationship, the sex was good and I felt attracted to him… but then as the relationship progressed, I suddenly became disgusted by sex with him. I met him at college orientation and we talked the summer before college and we sent picture texts to each other and I thought he was more handsome than he really was and when I saw him on the first day of college, I remember feeling disappointed. Though I have been excited and aroused by my previous boyfriends and also, my first crush was on a guy at a summer camp in seventh grade. thank you so much for helping me Jonathan Hershfield July 25, 2013 at 4:09 am - Reply >>>I am a twenty year old girl who has been seriously struggling lately. I have always had OCD (diagnosed as of three years ago) symptoms throughout my life (first was religious fears in third grade when I became obsessed with the Bible, then came fears of having a heart disorder at eight when I noticed my heart would sped up when anxious, then came an obsession about pregnancy when my parents gave me the sex talk at ten, the list goes on and on)…for a while, these obsessions died down but came back with a vengeance just last year, when I obsessed about plagiarism (I never plagiarized), HIV (took a test, resisted taking more), Genital warts fear (went to two doctors, told I was fine) —Sounds like you’ve done a world tour of common OCD obsessions. >>>but then came the worst obsession of my life: the fear of being a pedophile and this is where HOCD comes in. When I first had the “POCD”, I felt nothing but anxiety, this continued for several months and groinal responses occurred with this obsession, along with a fear of touching children (I had to sit on my hands, terrified I would touch a child). this fear of touching children morphed into touching anyone inappropriately. One day my roommate was leaning over me, showing me a website and my kept telling me to touch her even though I was screaming at my thoughts to stop it. —Screaming at your thoughts suggests to the brain that thoughts are inherently important. That’s a trap. >>>When she left, I sat on my bed, wondering why I wanted to touch her so bad (I knew it was OCD, but maybe I was questioning it because I am gay, I don’t know anymore)…then came the thought. Because you’re gay. It was more like a realization and I felt super happy, like I’d discovered something…until I thought…wait, that doesn’t make any sense, I have always liked guys, I have never had crushes on girls and I have enjoyed sex with men…then the panic came crashing down on me, but for some reason it wasn’t as terrifying as the other ocd’s, which is why this scares me. The arousals feel much more genuine than POCD and I feel like I could like a girl but I test and I test and I never find a true answer but during this all, —Testing is a compulsion, but you should also challenge the distorted thinking involved in the idea that simply having attractions to women makes you gay. >>>I had a crush on a guy (and, the day before this started, I remember researching pocd and thinking well maybe the same theory for treating hocd will work for pocd even though I have no doubts about my sexuality as I like so-and-so)….this has been going on for six months now, I am scared out of my mind. One more thing I might add, when I calmed down, the women whom I felt “attracted” to lost their attraction and I felt my attraction to men come back again and one of my friends kissed me, I felt SUPER disgusted. Please help me, I feel gay now 🙁 I went to a doctor on campus, hoping for help but I could not afford the ERP needed and I feel like this real. these attractions to women feel unnatural and strange and not as happy and wonderful as the ones I have had with guys… —This analysis of you attractions is a compulsion that fuels your obsession. The fear is that something is “off” about your orientation. Confront it by treating it like it doesn’t matter that you have this thought. >>>I am also scared because with my last boyfriend, the first half of my relationship, the sex was good and I felt attracted to him… but then as the relationship progressed, I suddenly became disgusted by sex with him. I met him at college orientation and we talked the summer before college and we sent picture texts to each other and I thought he was more handsome than he really was and when I saw him on the first day of college, I remember feeling disappointed. —We are an often disappointing gender. 😉 Seriously though, people not meeting your expectations hardly counts as evidence of orientation. >>>Though I have been excited and aroused by my previous boyfriends and also, my first crush was on a guy at a summer camp in seventh grade. thank you so much for helping me —It’s going to have to be CBT with ERP. If you can’t find an ocd specialist or can’t afford one, then use a self-help workbook, such as Freedom From Obsessive Compulsive Disorder by Jonathan Grayson or The OCD Workbook by Bruce Hyman. Hannah July 25, 2013 at 5:14 am - Reply Thank you so much, Dr. Hershfield! I really appreciate your help 🙂 I will definitely look for those books (as I cannot afford therapy) I was curious, yesterday, I was laughing with some friends and I suddenly had a thought: “Was I flirting with her?” I then I realized my parents were outside the house (my friends were dropping me off) and I suddenly thought, “What if my parents think I’m gay?” This is a theme of insecurity (as I like to think of it) seems to follow me through obsessions: that if the fear is true, I will somehow destroy my future and disappoint my parents. I know that OCD and the future are common subjects among patients (my doctor at the time confirmed this), I was just curious if this recent thought could be a recent offshoot of this insecurity or if it means I am afraid of being accepted by others if I were, in fact, gay. Jonathan Hershfield July 26, 2013 at 9:21 pm - Reply Hi Hannah, I think for a lot of people HOCD can be a form of social anxiety. In some cases, the fear of being evaluated negatively results in avoidance that gets interpreted as gay somehow. The general theme of “something is wrong with me that others will judge” fits in well with most forms of OCD. The important thing to remember is that OCD operates in the “what if” but you are only responsible for addressing and responding to the “what IS”. In other words, when the ocd says you could have been flirting or you might disappoint your parents, it’s ok to say “maybe” and not analyze it further. Peter July 25, 2013 at 5:55 pm - Reply Hi Dr. Hershfield, I’m a 20 year old male and I’ve never been diagnosed with OCD, but I’m pretty confident I’ve always had it. As a kid, I suffered from all sorts of OCD related symptoms. I would wash my hands if I thought or felt that I touched something that was “dirty” or something that had touched something “dirty” (my hands were raw from doing so), I would repeatedly check locks to ensure they were locked and then recheck to make sure my checking didn’t break the lock (prevented me from sleeping), I would repeat phrases in my head to reassure myself of things (usually religiously related phrases), and much more (the list is pretty extensive). However, over the years, I’ve learned to keep it under control to the point that these doubts don’t worry me, until now. HOCD has slowly taken over my life. I don’t enjoy things that I used to because I’m always obsessing over this; I’m just not happy anymore. So, I’ve finally decided to seek treatment. I haven’t actually met with a psychologist yet, but I’m extremely worried that since I’ve never been actually diagnosed with OCD, they will think that I’m actually gay and try to make me accept that as a fact and not treat it as OCD. Is there anything I can do? Jonathan Hershfield July 26, 2013 at 10:16 pm - Reply Peter, given your history, it certainly sounds unlikely that you will walk away without an ocd diagnosis. That being said, if you can, choose a therapist who specializes in OCD so after they diagnose you, they can actually help you. Dave July 27, 2013 at 12:43 am - Reply I get frequent groinal responses from guys (Im a guy). It feels like a sudden shock jolt of arousal/fear. I dont get an erection as such but I can feel some blood flow to the area and ‘sexual type’ feeling in my groin. It also feels like my heart leaps a bit too when I see a spikey guy. When I see hot girls I feel neither fear nor excitement and no groinal and worry that I am gay. LAst night I had a weird dream. A gay guy from high school (Im now in my 30’s btw) was in it and I was in bed with a person and I’m not sure if it was a guy or girl. I thought it was a girl but it turned out to be a girls body with the gay guys head. I woke up with a erection and was freaked out. I am worried about the gay finger ratio as I have the feminine type gay pattern and worry I was born gay. I started worrying about being gay at 24 yrs old but when I look into my past wonder if I was really born gay and all the signs were there but I didnt see them. I always fantasised about girls growing up but now doubt if it was natural or because I wanted to be straight. I went to an all boys high school and never fancied anyone. It never occured to me to look at them that way. Now I get feelings in my groin when I look at guys. I hate it. I have had this 6 1/2 yrs now. Thanks Dave July 27, 2013 at 2:33 pm - Reply Also I have a girlfriend of nearly a year and we are talking about getting married. however this scares me because what if I’m really gay and have to tell her?? What if the marriage is a disaster? Its bad enough suffering from this but i dont want to hurt her. What if I ruin her life? I could talk all day about evidence that makes me gay. I also have evidence that makes me straight. I grew up thinking I was straight, had straight fantasies only, then starting having erection problems and thats when I started questioning at age 24. I have noticed that stuff that used to highly arouse me (like straight porn) doesnt so much anymore and while gay porn did nothing for me for a few years when I first started testing my reactions it now seems to be having more of an effect- sometimes it makes me orgasm quickly. In fact the more scared I am the quicker it happens. I am really scared of marrying my girfriend and having it be a disaster. We get on so well together and I do love her. Im scared I wont be able to get aroused by her after the novelty wears off. I dunno if i have ocd or not. Ive always been a worrier especially health. Always worried about some disease and whether I have it. I dont want to get married until I know for sure I’m straight. Jonathan Hershfield July 27, 2013 at 11:30 pm - Reply >>>>Also I have a girlfriend of nearly a year and we are talking about getting married. however this scares me because what if I’m really gay and have to tell her?? What if the marriage is a disaster? Its bad enough suffering from this but i dont want to hurt her. What if I ruin her life? —This train of thought is a common one in HOCD. Like any obsession, you have to learn to tolerate uncertainty. Though there is plenty of evidence to suggest that you will have a happy healthy marriage, there is no way to prove with 100% certainty that things will go as planned. If you didn’t have ocd, you would know this and not mind so much. So what you’re left with is the cost/benefit analysis of accepting uncertainty while moving forward with a commitment to what you think you probably want vs. continuing to do compulsions and abandoning your loved one in the process. >>>>I could talk all day about evidence that makes me gay. I also have evidence that makes me straight. I grew up thinking I was straight, had straight fantasies only, then starting having erection problems and thats when I started questioning at age 24. I have noticed that stuff that used to highly arouse me (like straight porn) doesnt so much anymore and while gay porn did nothing for me for a few years when I first started testing my reactions it now seems to be having more of an effect- sometimes it makes me orgasm quickly. In fact the more scared I am the quicker it happens. I am really scared of marrying my girfriend and having it be a disaster. We get on so well together and I do love her. Im scared I wont be able to get aroused by her after the novelty wears off. I dunno if i have ocd or not. Ive always been a worrier especially health. Always worried about some disease and whether I have it. I dont want to get married until I know for sure I’m straight. —Since it is impossible to know such a thing “for sure” you are setting yourself up for failure. Alternatively, you could get treatment for OCD and see what happens. Jonathan Hershfield July 27, 2013 at 11:25 pm - Reply >>>>I get frequent groinal responses from guys (Im a guy). It feels like a sudden shock jolt of arousal/fear. I dont get an erection as such but I can feel some blood flow to the area and ‘sexual type’ feeling in my groin. It also feels like my heart leaps a bit too when I see a spikey guy. When I see hot girls I feel neither fear nor excitement and no groinal and worry that I am gay. —This is pretty much what I hear from most of my clients with this obsession. >>>LAst night I had a weird dream. A gay guy from high school (Im now in my 30′s btw) was in it and I was in bed with a person and I’m not sure if it was a guy or girl. I thought it was a girl but it turned out to be a girls body with the gay guys head. I woke up with a erection and was freaked out. —Good thing dreams don’t mean anything. As for waking up with an erection, it’s actually a biological part of the REM sleep cycle and is considered a sign of good penile health. It’s unrelated to dream content. >>> I am worried about the gay finger ratio as I have the feminine type gay pattern and worry I was born gay. —I’ve heard of this gay finger ratio thing. That’s hilarious and about as scientifically significant as associating sexual orientation with number of freckles. (before anyone starts counting freckles, I mean that as a metaphor for anything that’s irrelevant to sexual orientation) >>>I started worrying about being gay at 24 yrs old but when I look into my past wonder if I was really born gay and all the signs were there but I didnt see them. I always fantasised about girls growing up but now doubt if it was natural or because I wanted to be straight. I went to an all boys high school and never fancied anyone. It never occured to me to look at them that way. Now I get feelings in my groin when I look at guys. I hate it. I have had this 6 1/2 yrs now. —Can’t diagnose you via a blog comment, but it sounds like an obsession with your orientation and compulsions that involve analysis of your groin. The checking magnifies the awareness of and increases the frequency of the sensations. Thanks Dave July 29, 2013 at 9:49 pm - Reply Thanks Dr. Hershfield. But when I see a guy take his shirt off on tv or something like that I get an INSTANT groinal response that can put me in a depressed mood for the day or maybe a few days. IS this not arousal and proof Im gay? I never had these responses before my gay fears started at age 24. This is really getting me down. What makes it doubly worse is when I see a hot girl in a bikini or suggestive clothing I feel nothing. No groinal/arousal. I really want this to be OCD but my mind is saying to me ”youre fooling yourself” and ‘if you were with a guy in bed you would get super aroused and know for sure” (got groinal typing that ). Its so hard to not believe I’m gay. 🙁 Jonathan Hershfield July 30, 2013 at 7:44 pm - Reply Dave, your depressed mood doe not come from your groinal response, which is an involuntary body event. It comes from your analysis of the groinal response, which is a behavior you engage in that is voluntary. Where is the evidence that blood flow to the groin is proof of one’s identity? You frame “gay” as being some sort of disease that you caught that doesn’t belong to you and will change you into something awful. I can’t speak for the homosexual community, but this sounds a bit off from what I suspect they experience. In any case, treating the OCD, for which there appears to be some evidence, makes a lot of sense. Dave July 31, 2013 at 12:00 pm - Reply I am not anti gay or anything not have any hatred towards them its just that for some reason I dont even know I really dont want to be gay. I was just trying to make a point that the groinals are intense and the more fear I feel the worse they are sometimes. Can fear induce groinals/arousal or even erectons? Dave July 31, 2013 at 5:16 pm - Reply Also if a groinal is an involutary response is that not your body telling you that is what you are primarily sexually attracted to? This worries me enormously. Many Thanks Jonathan Hershfield August 2, 2013 at 11:52 pm - Reply Hi Dave, this question is addressed in http://ocdspecialists.com/2013/07/hocd-sexual-orientation-ocd-part-three-the-groinal-response/ John August 1, 2013 at 10:47 pm - Reply I’m 16 and i get this, and there’s nothing i can do about it :/ i can’t see a therapist, I’ve told my parents but they are like if you know you aren’t gay then you aren’t, i this feeling about 3 months ago, but it’s come back and i cant get over the anxiety and i really don’t know what to do. I’ve liked girls my whole life, i have a girlfriend i like very much but now i doubt myself a lot, as if i even enjoy being with her, but i know i do because that’s how i felt before, i don’t know what do to! Jonathan Hershfield August 2, 2013 at 11:56 pm - Reply John, what do you mean specifically when you say you can’t see a therapist? John August 3, 2013 at 1:51 pm - Reply By that i mean my parents wouldn’t agree, they just think i’m over reacting, and i’m also a bit scared to see a therapist because they might say i am secretly gay, that would kill me! I don’t even feel aroused by women anymore, but neither am I aroused by men. Right now the anxiety is gone from the thoughts and i’m afraid that’s because i actually am Gay, which i know i’m not and don”t want to be. Jonathan Hershfield August 3, 2013 at 10:30 pm - Reply “Afraid of being but know I’m not” is a sentiment a lot of people with all kinds of OCD have. If your parents aren’t open to helping you get treated for OCD, perhaps they would be more open to getting you help for depression. The lack of libido and absence of anxiety may actually be symptoms of co-occurring depression. If you do get treatment, just try to get someone who specializes in OCD. No one who does CBT for OCD looks for “secret meanings” in things. In any case, short of therapy, perhaps you could get a book on OCD and see if you can apply some of the lessons learned there. John August 4, 2013 at 12:32 am You mentioned depression, i’m not sure what other than this would cause depression, i would also like to mention that i used to masturbate quite frequently. Jonathan Hershfield August 4, 2013 at 9:19 pm Depression, like OCD, has genetic and biological causes in addition to circumstantial causes. In other words, it doesn’t matter so much why you are depressed as it matters that you get some treatment for it. John August 4, 2013 at 4:37 pm I also tried ERP myself, i would sit down and let the thoughts come but i wouldn’t give them judgmental or emotional response, i would let them pass, this reduced the anxiety, but i still feel like they are there and i’m scared. Jonathan Hershfield August 4, 2013 at 9:23 pm This sounds like a good mindfulness practice, and definitely an approach you could take generally, but isn’t really exposure with response prevention (ERP). To reap the benefit of ERP, you would need to engage in something purposely triggering, not just the having of thoughts, and then resist the compulsive response. The goal is not reduced anxiety – that is a secondary benefit. The goal is reduced over-attention and over-response, as in being able to have the thoughts without having to respond to them compulsively out of fear. John August 5, 2013 at 3:11 pm I’m not sure what my triggers are, the thought that scares me the most is that i might secretly be gay, that i might just one day randomly come out. Also when ever i think of girls and my girlfriend and feel no attraction i panic, is it because i’m gay, i do when i’m out look at men and check if i am attracted, but i am trying to resist the urges to do so, but i then panic because i think i am actually turning gay. I am looking at reading the book Brain Lock, would that by any chance help me? Jonathan Hershfield August 7, 2013 at 4:44 am Brain Lock is a good book for understanding the basic mechanics of how OCD works in the brain. In general I think it is less effective for significant ocd, particularly obsessions that involve a lot of mental rituals because it relies to heavily on a concept of disowning thoughts by labeling them. I would recommend Freedom From OCD by Jonathan Grayson or Imp of the Mind by Lee Baer as better resources for this. You say you are scared of randomly coming out. With the amount of obsessive analysis you do, wouldn’t it be odd if you randomly did anything? Dave August 2, 2013 at 3:45 pm - Reply Today I had a horrible day. Saw some ‘hot chicks’ on tv and then google imaged ‘hot chicks’ and didnt feel that aroused. The I ‘had to’ check hot guys and my heart starts beating faster and I got more aroused. 🙁 I have to be gay 🙁 I just dont get that really intense exciting arousal for women anymore. Its years since I got it. And I seem to get it for guys now. Its like I am gay now and I hate it. The arousal scares me and I dont enjoy it but yet my body is reacting strongly to guys. 🙁 Is there any hope for me? I hate this so much Jonathan Hershfield August 2, 2013 at 11:58 pm - Reply Dave, I’m not sure what help you expect to get if the main strategy for treating your OCD is to report that you are doing compulsions on someone’s blog. What are you doing for treatment? Dave August 2, 2013 at 4:44 pm - Reply Im ashamed to say i tested to the gay images by masturbating to them and I come very quickly. Proof of being gay I think. I feel so bad right now like I want to go and die in a hole. My whole family knows my fears of being gay and they would love me regardless but it just seems so wrong in my mind and I dont want it. I thought my whole life I was sttraight but obviously I somehow fooled myself either consciously, semi consciously or unconsciously or I avoided these thoughts my whole life. I miss my teenage years and looking at women in porn and feeling so excited and happy. I miss that feeling. Women seem boring now. 🙁 Anna August 5, 2013 at 12:36 am - Reply Thankyou for your articles. I am really, really struggling with what I think/hope is hocd. My husband and I have had a great marriage and 3 beautiful kids. I have had intermittent thoughts of groinal responses/mild hocd but have been able to get overit easily. Never had gay feelings growing up or any thing, hubby and I have had a great sex life also, and good life in general. HOCD has never been so bad. I am constantly monitoring my feelings and seeing if I “feel”gay(this is not so much a sexual feeling, but a sense that it would be easier to be with a woman, and gravitating towards that concept). I look at photos of my husband and I to anchor my thoughts on him and away from lustful images, and remind myself of who I really am. When I do this, I feel very happy briefly, but then an intrusive thought comes back to say,”marriage, parenting, responsibility, it’s all too hard. Be with a woman instead”, and I feel like there is no escape. Like 2people living in the same body! I have never looked at porn, and will not allow myself to have an actual lesbian fantasy as I really feel that I will lose control of myself. I used to be a woman of very strong character, very committed to my marriage and very happy. I tried an ERP exercise where I entertained a Brokeback Mountain type scenario, and I feel that it backfired very badly, as I enjoyed the idea and got lost in it, and found it even more difficult to come back to reality. I have prayed to God that He would take me rather than have me act on these thoughts and damage my family in that way. I feel that I have lost who I really am, and lost my strength of character. I know I have to get rid of these thoughts and get my mind back on track. I feel in serious danger of losing control, but when I give myself permission to have the thoughts, they sometimes go away. I am scared though, that if I keep giving myself permission to have them, they will just get stronger. Being with a woman is not who I really am or whatvI really want, it just feels like a Pandora’s box of lustful temptations and easy way out propositions has been opened, and I don’t fel that I have the strength of character to resist them. My psychologist said it is OCD, I felt reassurance as I know that OCDers hardly ever act on their fears. But as you know, the reassurance is never enough. This has been going on for 2months now. 2very long months! I would appreciate your comments and feedback. Jonathan Hershfield August 7, 2013 at 4:41 am - Reply Hi Anna, thank you for your comment and I’m glad the articles are helpful for you. >>>> I am constantly monitoring my feelings and seeing if I “feel”gay(this is not so much a sexual feeling, but a sense that it would be easier to be with a woman, and gravitating towards that concept). —-The concept of “feeling gay” is something that comes up in HOCD a lot. Since it doesn’t actually mean anything, one would hope it could easily be dismissed, but it often becomes a source of a lot of obsessive doubt. But people don’t “feel” their orientation, so much as they experience it. I identify as heterosexual. It doesn’t feel like anything in particular. It just is what is. The sense that it would be “easier” with a woman might be wroth doing some imaginal exposure to in treatment, depending on what is meant by “easier.” >>>I look at photos of my husband and I to anchor my thoughts on him and away from lustful images, and remind myself of who I really am. —This is a compulsion and almost certainly correlates to an increase in your obsession. >>>>When I do this, I feel very happy briefly, but then an intrusive thought comes back to say,”marriage, parenting, responsibility, it’s all too hard. Be with a woman instead”, and I feel like there is no escape. Like 2people living in the same body! —And that’s what a compulsion feels like. Temporary relief from an anxious feeling, followed by a worsening of obsessive doubt. >>>>I have never looked at porn, and will not allow myself to have an actual lesbian fantasy as I really feel that I will lose control of myself. —What does that mean specifically? That you will become possessed and get in the car and drive to a lesbian bar and cheat on your husband with a female stranger? What do you mean by “lose control?” >>>>I used to be a woman of very strong character, very committed to my marriage and very happy. I tried an ERP exercise where I entertained a Brokeback Mountain type scenario, and I feel that it backfired very badly, as I enjoyed the idea and got lost in it, and found it even more difficult to come back to reality. I have prayed to God that He would take me rather than have me act on these thoughts and damage my family in that way. I feel that I have lost who I really am, and lost my strength of character. —I’m not understanding why enjoying a fantasy damages your family. >>>>I know I have to get rid of these thoughts and get my mind back on track. —This is the opposite approach to what works in the treatment of ocd. The thoughts are normal events that you are responding to in a distorted way, making them appear problematic to you. Trying to get rid of thoughts only makes them more intrusive. >>>I feel in serious danger of losing control, but when I give myself permission to have the thoughts, they sometimes go away. —-See my previous comment. >>>>I am scared though, that if I keep giving myself permission to have them, they will just get stronger. Being with a woman is not who I really am or whatvI really want, it just feels like a Pandora’s box of lustful temptations and easy way out propositions has been opened, and I don’t fel that I have the strength of character to resist them. My psychologist said it is OCD, I felt reassurance as I know that OCDers hardly ever act on their fears. But as you know, the reassurance is never enough. This has been going on for 2months now. 2very long months! I would appreciate your comments and feedback. — In can’t diagnose you from a blog comment, but since someone already did, I can agree. The treatment for OCD is cognitive behavioral therapy with exposure w/ response prevention. If your psychologist is not experienced in treating ocd, seek out one who is. You could take the risk of doing treatment and maybe there being some unknowable unwanted consequence, or you can keep doing compulsions, which is a guarantee that you will eventually lose everything you care about. Risk is always better than guarantee. Dave August 7, 2013 at 12:47 pm - Reply Dr.Hershfield. I have read Brainlock and many articles online but I really doubt whether its ocd to be quite honest. I have had bad erection problems since 19 yrs old (been told its a medical condition) but keep thinking its coz I’m gay so at age 25 started questioning and testing and got slightly better erections and orgasms. I fell into a depression and a panic since (over 6yrs now) and dont want that lifestyle or to even have these body responses and thoughts. I want to feel excited by women like I did as a teen and not have this boring feeling towards them. Q. If I get more aroused by men at the moment does that mean I’m gay? I used to love masturbating about girls and only about girls and that was the case until I started questioning age 25. Since then masturbating about men (to check reactions) can lead to more arousal than I’m getting with girls now. So in a competition the gay me is beating the straight me. I feel depressed and confused and definitely dont want to be gay but I dont want to live a lie either. I want to be genuinely straight. Jonathan Hershfield August 7, 2013 at 10:59 pm - Reply Hi Dave, I’m an MFT, not a Dr., so just call me Jon. I don’t have answer for your question. What is is to identify as homosexual is more than just what happens to arouse you. That being said, you have to accept that you are aroused by what you are aroused by and stop trying to find meaning in it. OCD or not, you are still doing a lot of compulsive checking, “proving” and analysis when what would really benefit you is accepting whatever thoughts, feelings, and sensations you have and acknowledge the uncertainty that comes with it. Brain Lock has some good material in it for understanding OCD overall, but I think it less effective of a treatment angle for HOCD than some other available books, such as Imp of the Mind by Lee Baer and Freedom From Obsessive Compulsive Disorder by Jonathan Grayson. Dave August 8, 2013 at 12:29 am - Reply Does this mean you think I’m gay? I used to get really turned on by women in suggesteive photos in magzines but now its not workiing. I have a medical condition and cant get 100% hard to men or women. I am scared very much of the groinal sensations and ‘arousals’ to men. I dont like them. I never knew they existed in me until age 25. I am terrified of being gay. I have a girlfriend and am scared I am lying to her and to myself. I can get groinal sensations when I see a guy in a magazine and this amounts to tightening, a bit of an erection (maybe less than a 1/4 erection) tingling and or general feeling of sexual excitement down there. I dunno if this is genuine sexual arousal or groinals. It feels like arousal. If I masturbate to it I can get a similar to sometimes slightly better reaction than to pics of girls. Other times I cant get excited by it t all and girls arouse me more. When I have watched gay porn it never aroused me at all and disturbed me. But then I had to try masturbating to it to see how aroused I would get. For a few years I found it hard to get turned on and the straight porn would get me going. Now it seems like the opposite. Especially if I am really afraid watching gay porn. The fear makes me come really quick. Or maybe thats denial of being excited. Do you think I should break up with my girlfriend? I love her but dont want to marry her if I am lying to myself 🙁 I dont know what I am. I just dont want to have these gay thoughts/impulses and feelings in my head and body ever again. Please help Jonathan Hershfield August 8, 2013 at 12:42 am - Reply Dave, if your interpretation of the last several comments is that I think you’re gay, then you are either not reading them or are compulsively distorting them to disqualify what is being said because of your fear of being gay. What I said was that you need to accept when you experience arousal and stop doing testing compulsions. You need to see a therapist who specializes in ocd and do cognitive behavioral therapy and mindfulness work. You need to actually do something about your ocd instead of writing blog comments about doing compulsions. Dave August 8, 2013 at 1:04 am I’m sorry. I dont mean to be a pest. I’m just really scared and worried. I have seen ocd therapist in the past but I still live in constant fear of this. Well sometimes I dont worry about it then I go into periods like now where I’m convinced I’m gay. I am currently unemployed which certainly doesnt help my situation. I have a history of worrying about my health, getting diseases like cancer etc. False fears. But this seems so real and possible or probable (in my mind anyway). I cant afford therapy right now but part of me feels ”what is the point? You’ll only end up gay anyway so why bother?” I get depressed and almost resigned to my fate with this. Apologies to you Jon. I will get that Grayson book. Jonathan Hershfield August 8, 2013 at 5:47 am Dave, you’re not a pest, and I can see you’re really distressed by this obsession. Whatever the current obsession is for someone, that always feels like the more realistic, more likely one. It has to. If it felt less likely than previous obsessions, you would call BS and be done with it. It’s specifically because of this “realness” quality that the OCD gets such a strong hold on you and you’ll keep doing compulsion after compulsion until you start a structured program for getting off this train. You mentioned being unemployed, which I’m presuming means you have a lot of unstructured time on your hands to think and think and think. Until you find work, I’d suggest finding ways to structure your time better, fill it with task-oriented behaviors instead of analysis. Volunteer, start a project, schedule your day with exercise, appointments, even just walks. Anyway, I think you’ll find Grayson’s book helpful, don’t give up. bob August 11, 2013 at 7:37 pm - Reply hocd and pocd are both terrible to live with. im sure every type of ocd is so I feel for everyone who has ocd. hocd is like being in a mental crisis every single day of your life. somedays are better than others. other days im just washing down vodka to reduce my anxiety only making me have a double problem. substance abuse. Im calling a cbt specialist tomorrow because I cant deal with this on my own anymore. I need to learn how to not do mental compulsions anymore. I really think ocd is more than an anxiety disorder. it makes the mind wonder off into a harsh reality that you don’t want to live in. pocd isn’t as bad as hocd is to me but it still disgusts me if I think a little girl is cute. or if im masturbating and then I try to think of my sisters friend to see if im aroused by that and its always led to me not being aroused anymore but for some reason I still “need” to check. just like classic ocd symptoms people will check if a lights on or if a stove is on. well that’s the same with hocd and pocd only that its checking inside your head if your attracted to the same sex or children under 12. Jonathan Hershfield August 11, 2013 at 8:45 pm - Reply Hi Bob, good that you are seeking help from someone who does cbt. As you might have guessed, alcohol unfortunately does not solve the problem and can worsen it in some key ways. First, on a chemical level, as a depressant, alcohol messes with some of the same neurochemistry that is behind the ocd. You may feel better when drunk, but the rebound effect actually exacerbates the ocd. (ask anyone with ocd how their symptoms are during a hangover) The other problem with relying on alcohol is that it functions as a compulsion. Every time you escape to unreality in the face of anxiety, you are demonstrating to your brain that you cannot tolerate the presence of anxiety. That means when you experience anxiety normally, it presents itself as intolerable. Anyway, you mentioned some classic checking compulsions with the hocd and pocd. You’re right about checking in the mind/body being no different than checking the stove to be sure it’s off. Be sure to address them with your therapist and be sure to engage in ERP. Nate August 14, 2013 at 7:53 pm - Reply Hello Dr. Hershfield. I am 21 years old and I am dealing with two potential OCD scenarios, one of which is a topic of common concern on this forum (HOCD) the other is quite odd, somewhat unheard of and frankly quite embarrassing to talk about but I’ll explain it to you anyways, so bear with me here. I have always felt throughout high school, and even college, that with each successive year I age up , the kids at school appear younger. It seems trivial, I know, but for some strange reason this really irritates me and I feel that all was not right with the world. Since then, I have been constantly trying to alleviate this by going online and doing a Google image search of mug shots to see what percentage of people my age have baby faces. In order to alleviate the anxiety, at least 90 percent of the people searched have to appear = or > their age. Otherwise the anxiety resides and I want to keep constantly searching over and over again. Sometimes I will spend hours a day doing this and it is completely pointless, and insignificant but for some reason I cannot stop. Is this some form of OCD? I ask this because I feel like I’ve always had some compulsion of sorts ever since the age of 8. Back then, I somehow came to the conclusion that I did not like emergency locks, or handles (on buses and doors and the like), and that I did not want anyone who touched these objects to touch me. If I saw them touch the object I would not let them touch me at all, even if it was a shoulder pat or a handshake etc. If they did, I cried and I then tried to wash the area with soap to “cleanse” myself. Thankfully I don’t have these childhood issues anymore. HOCD however (if that is really what it is), started when I was around 12 year old after watching a teen drama of a guy who, while dating a girl, started falling for her friends brother. I went through the whole spiel….. I tried not to look at gays on television, was afraid of becoming attracted to boys at school. I was always on edge when around them. I always felt that I had to be sure that when I looked guys, I wasn’t attracted to them…. this would backfire as unwanted feelings would sometimes surface leaving me depressed and confused. I felt as though my attractions for the opposite sex were dwindling. Every time I looked at an attractive woman I would anxiously hope that I would be attracted to her, but often times I felt nothing. For a couple years I stopped worrying, I let the feelings happen and eventually my opposite sex attractions came back and I realized I was never attracted to guys, as my anxiety around men dwindled. But, one day I was shopping for men’s underwear online (this was a couple of weeks ago) and the thoughts popped into my head……Was that a feeling of attraction, when you looked at that body?…………then I would stare at the picture until the anxiety died down, and it would alleviate the anxiety for a bit, and then I would start rationalizing “If you were straight you wouldn’t have that feeling/thought”. This is making me depressed and giving me the urge to continue checking. Then I would start reading forums for reassurance and some would say……”HOCD doesn’t exist, your just in denial” and they would say something like “just because your afraid of being gay doesn’t mean your not gay, it just means that you’re afraid to accept it”. This gives me more anxiety and the cycle continues. All I want to do is be with a woman. I have no desire whatsoever to be with a man. I just want all this chaos to end so I can live a productive life. Sorry for the length, but I would like for you to shed some light on what up with me. Thank you much sir. Jonathan Hershfield August 15, 2013 at 12:43 am - Reply Hi Nate, >>>>Hello Dr. Hershfield. —I’m an MFT, just call me Jon. >>>>I am 21 years old and I am dealing with two potential OCD scenarios, one of which is a topic of common concern on this forum (HOCD) the other is quite odd, somewhat unheard of and frankly quite embarrassing to talk about but I’ll explain it to you anyways, so bear with me here. I have always felt throughout high school, and even college, that with each successive year I age up , the kids at school appear younger. —I’ve noticed this too. I think… you mean people your age seem like they look younger than you? Or people younger than you seem significantly younger? Is the obsession that you may be aging too rapidly? >>>>It seems trivial, I know, but for some strange reason this really irritates me and I feel that all was not right with the world. Since then, I have been constantly trying to alleviate this by going online and doing a Google image search of mug shots to see what percentage of people my age have baby faces. In order to alleviate the anxiety, at least 90 percent of the people searched have to appear = or > their age. Otherwise the anxiety resides and I want to keep constantly searching over and over again. Sometimes I will spend hours a day doing this and it is completely pointless, and insignificant but for some reason I cannot stop. Is this some form of OCD? —I think this is a pretty clear-cut compulsion. The fear is a mix of concern about you being different from others in some uncontrollable way and a fear of not being able to cope with this fear were it to come true. The reason you find it difficult to stop is because every time you do it, you are negatively reinforcing the fear. Negative reinforcement is when you remove a punishment, making the thing that caused the punishment to end be more likely to be repeated. In this case the punishment is your ocd anxiety, the googling relieves it, and the brain is reinforced to demand googling before letting go of an obsession. >>>I ask this because I feel like I’ve always had some compulsion of sorts ever since the age of 8. Back then, I somehow came to the conclusion that I did not like emergency locks, or handles (on buses and doors and the like), and that I did not want anyone who touched these objects to touch me. If I saw them touch the object I would not let them touch me at all, even if it was a shoulder pat or a handshake etc. If they did, I cried and I then tried to wash the area with soap to “cleanse” myself. Thankfully I don’t have these childhood issues anymore. HOCD however (if that is really what it is), started when I was around 12 year old after watching a teen drama of a guy who, while dating a girl, started falling for her friends brother. I went through the whole spiel….. I tried not to look at gays on television, was afraid of becoming attracted to boys at school. I was always on edge when around them. I always felt that I had to be sure that when I looked guys, I wasn’t attracted to them…. this would backfire as unwanted feelings would sometimes surface leaving me depressed and confused. I felt as though my attractions for the opposite sex were dwindling. Every time I looked at an attractive woman I would anxiously hope that I would be attracted to her, but often times I felt nothing. For a couple years I stopped worrying, I let the feelings happen and eventually my opposite sex attractions came back and I realized I was never attracted to guys, as my anxiety around men dwindled. But, one day I was shopping for men’s underwear online (this was a couple of weeks ago) and the thoughts popped into my head……Was that a feeling of attraction, when you looked at that body? —Sounds like OCD to me. >>>>…………then I would stare at the picture until the anxiety died down, and it would alleviate the anxiety for a bit, and then I would start rationalizing “If you were straight you wouldn’t have that feeling/thought”. —Yes, you would. >>>>This is making me depressed and giving me the urge to continue checking. Then I would start reading forums for reassurance and some would say……”HOCD doesn’t exist, your just in denial” and they would say something like “just because your afraid of being gay doesn’t mean your not gay, it just means that you’re afraid to accept it”. —Just because you’re afraid of getting a terrible disease from a door knob, doesn’t mean you won’t get killed by a door knob. It means you’re afraid to accept that sometimes door knobs kill people. The argument is irrelevant because it misses the larger point. Gay or HOCD, obsessing and compulsing doesn’t produce results. >>>>This gives me more anxiety and the cycle continues. All I want to do is be with a woman. I have no desire whatsoever to be with a man. I just want all this chaos to end so I can live a productive life. Sorry for the length, but I would like for you to shed some light on what up with me. Thank you much sir. —Not a very big light to shed on something that already shines brightly with ocd. Get ocd treatment from an ocd specialist and stop looking at compulsions as the solution. They are the problem. They feed the fear. Sarah August 15, 2013 at 5:34 am - Reply PLEASE HELP!! I can’t deal with this anymore. I need help. Something has to change because whatever my methods are aren’t working. My mind jumps from one feared what if to the next. I think ill have everything figured out and not 10 minutes will go by and ill be on another one and it doesn’t matter how ridiculous it is or how obvious. The fear and anxiety lives with me 24/7. Like just now I had just come inside from talking with my boyfriend and we agreed that I need to stop being so afraid and when the feared what if happens to accept that its just anxiety. Anyway I just came inside all happy thinking everything is going to work out and my sister walks in and asked me if I was ok because I was upset earlier and I said I was fine and she tried to hug me and I was afraid to hug her because like me she has big boobs now ive never liked hugging girls when our boobs touched mine always had to be above or below theirs but me and her are the same height so ours always touch and since the hocd it has made me terrified to hug my sister because it makes me so uncomfortable but I have no choice otherwise itll hurt her feelings. SO I hugged her trying my best to keep our boobs separated but to no avail and it made me notice her boobs like mine are all fat and hers are like solid boob and I pulled away and there was a tingling sensation in my lady parts and I started to freak out while also trying my best to stay calm and get away as fast as I could. Now I know that I wasn’t turned on because thinking about that makes me so disgusted I started to break down and feel like I was going to puke. I have a feeling that it was just anxiety like it always is but im so afraid. Why did that happen? Why did I get a tingling sensation? I know I wasn’t turned on because it was my freaking sister number one and I was the exact opposite of aroused I was afraid and then I was anxious but its harder to accept as the truth this time because I think I was trying so hard to act calm and get out of there that I didn’t realize how anxious I actually was. Does that sound like that’s what it could be. Please someone help me. Honestly I cant take this anymore and if I cant figure out how to find some relief I don’t know what to do. I just want to cry, go to sleep, and wake up and it all be gone. I wish a positive attitude was enough. But its not the fear is overwhelming. I don’t know how many time this has happened to me where I think ive got everything figured out im happy for 10 minutes and then something comes along and ruins it. Ive read all the articles. Ive done all the research on hocd, ocd, and anxiety and nothing. Its easier said then done. Ive made myself a card to remind myself during the rough times that ive tried to like girls like that and it grosses me out everytime in fact the more I try to like it the clearer it is that I don’t and that all it is is fear and anxiety. I try waiting until the fear is gone to think about it and analyze it and use logic to figure out why. Ive tried to ignore it and endure the anxiety as long as I can. Ive tried to expose myself to stuff and not respond. Ive even tried “accepting it” in many ways, accepting the fear as the truth ( all it does it gross me out or make it worse), and accepting the uncertainty and even now like I figured out earlier tonight im trying to accept the fact that its just anxiety. Whatever im doing isn’t working. It only works temporarily. At the end of the day the truth comes out whether I believe it or not. I know I don’t like girls like that. I know that HOCD can make you believe the most ridiculous things using fear and anxiety. I can have everything figured out and not 10 minutes later something like this happens and my whole world comes crashing down. Im going to leave for college in 4 days and my boyfriend is going to be gone for the last 2 of them AND tomorrow is our anniversary ANNND were going to go see a musical that my mom made the costumes for and she warned us that there will be excessive amounts of cleavage….-__- yay. I need this to end now. I cannot let it ruin my last 2 days with my boyfriend one of which being our anniversary. See and now the fear was gone enough for me to see that it couldn’t possibly have been arousal because it happened after we hugged not during but then not 2 seconds after figuring that out I second guessed myself and now im halfway convinced it was. At first I thought if it was arousal it would’ve happened while we were hugging and then I thought but I was afraid of hugging her and I was uncomfortable until I noticed her boobs and then I felt normal for a second where I was comfortable enough to say “dang girl you have big boobs like mine are half boob half fat but yours are like solid boob” and when I pulled away with that comment that’s when I felt it. Could I have been aroused by her boobs or did that comment freak me out and make me anxious enough to make that feeling? I don’t know. It didn’t feel like arousal and the the second it happened I started panicing like nobodys business but why did it happen? I was afraid, anticipating it, and trying to get away as fats as I could but then I let my guard down for 2 seconds, slowed down, made that comment like I was normal and then I got a tingling feeling in my lady parts( it didn’t feel good I mean it was just there) and it made me panic. Did it happen because I was aroused or because saying that comment made me anxious as well as slowing down long enough for the anxiety to catch up? Please how to I overcome this permanently not just temporarily? Jonathan Hershfield August 15, 2013 at 7:41 pm - Reply —-Hi Sarah, >>>>PLEASE HELP!! I can’t deal with this anymore. I need help. Something has to change because whatever my methods are aren’t working. My mind jumps from one feared what if to the next. I think ill have everything figured out and not 10 minutes will go by and ill be on another one and it doesn’t matter how ridiculous it is or how obvious. The fear and anxiety lives with me 24/7. —Sounds like pretty bad OCD. >>>>Like just now I had just come inside from talking with my boyfriend and we agreed that I need to stop being so afraid and when the feared what if happens to accept that its just anxiety. Anyway I just came inside all happy thinking everything is going to work out and my sister walks in and asked me if I was ok because I was upset earlier and I said I was fine and she tried to hug me and I was afraid to hug her because like me she has big boobs now ive never liked hugging girls when our boobs touched mine always had to be above or below theirs but me and her are the same height so ours always touch and since the hocd it has made me terrified to hug my sister because it makes me so uncomfortable but I have no choice otherwise itll hurt her feelings. SO I hugged her trying my best to keep our boobs separated —Or in other words, you thought that avoiding hugging would be a compulsion, so then you went in for a hug, but you tried to avoid it while doing it, and that didn’t work. A better strategy would be to hug her multiple times throughout the day and intentionally make sure your chests squished together. Then do what your boyfriend suggested and accept that this may come with some anxiety. >>>but to no avail and it made me notice her boobs like mine are all fat and hers are like solid boob and I pulled away and there was a tingling sensation in my lady parts and I started to freak out while also trying my best to stay calm and get away as fast as I could. —By “get away as fast as I could” you mean “compulsively avoid” and fuel your obsession further. >>>>Now I know that I wasn’t turned on because thinking about that makes me so disgusted I started to break down and feel like I was going to puke. I have a feeling that it was just anxiety like it always is but im so afraid. Why did that happen? Why did I get a tingling sensation? I know I wasn’t turned on because it was my freaking sister number one and I was the exact opposite of aroused I was afraid and then I was anxious but its harder to accept as the truth this time because I think I was trying so hard to act calm and get out of there that I didn’t realize how anxious I actually was. Does that sound like that’s what it could be. —Repeatedly telling yourself that you know something which is not possible to know with certainty (whether or not a bodily sensation means you were turned on) is a compulsion that makes everything seem like the worst thing you can imagine. Yes, sexual responses can happen for a variety of reasons, including anxiety, attending to sexual obsessions, and checking for arousal. But trying to prove that your body response doesn’t mean anything just sends the message to your brain that there is some big important thing to prove. It’s a trap. >>>>Please someone help me. Honestly I cant take this anymore and if I cant figure out how to find some relief I don’t know what to do. I just want to cry, go to sleep, and wake up and it all be gone. I wish a positive attitude was enough. But its not the fear is overwhelming. I don’t know how many time this has happened to me where I think ive got everything figured out im happy for 10 minutes and then something comes along and ruins it. Ive read all the articles. Ive done all the research on hocd, ocd, and anxiety and nothing. Its easier said then done. Ive made myself a card to remind myself during the rough times that ive tried to like girls like that and it grosses me out everytime in fact the more I try to like it the clearer it is that I don’t and that all it is is fear and anxiety. —This is confusing. You say you have researched all of the information on OCD and then you say you made a coping card that essentially has a compulsion written on it for you to self-reassure. If you learn about OCD, you also learn that the treatment involves stopping compulsions. >>>>I try waiting until the fear is gone to think about it and analyze it and use logic to figure out why. —Again, this “figure out why” sounds like a mental ritual. >>>Ive tried to ignore it and endure the anxiety as long as I can. Ive tried to expose myself to stuff and not respond. Ive even tried “accepting it” in many ways, accepting the fear as the truth ( all it does it gross me out or make it worse), and accepting the uncertainty and even now like I figured out earlier tonight im trying to accept the fact that its just anxiety. Whatever im doing isn’t working. It only works temporarily. At the end of the day the truth comes out whether I believe it or not. I know I don’t like girls like that. I know that HOCD can make you believe the most ridiculous things using fear and anxiety. I can have everything figured out and not 10 minutes later something like this happens and my whole world comes crashing down. —It sounds the like the real problem is this compulsion to figure things out and this distorted belief that once you have figured it all out, you won’t have to resist compulsively responding to things that trigger you. >>>Im going to leave for college in 4 days and my boyfriend is going to be gone for the last 2 of them AND tomorrow is our anniversary ANNND were going to go see a musical that my mom made the costumes for and she warned us that there will be excessive amounts of cleavage….-__- yay. I need this to end now. I cannot let it ruin my last 2 days with my boyfriend one of which being our anniversary. —The only thing that is guaranteed to “ruin” this time with your boyfriend is if you insist on certain thoughts being absent in order for you to allow yourself to be present. If instead you accept that certain thoughts are likely to occur and when they do, you resist the urge to figure them out or otherwise neutralize them, you can enjoy 80% of the time with your boyfriend. If you insist on eradicating all unwanted thoughts, you will be too busy doing compulsions to enjoy any of the time with your boyfriend. >>>>See and now the fear was gone enough for me to see that it couldn’t possibly have been arousal because it happened after we hugged not during but then not 2 seconds after figuring that out I second guessed myself and now im halfway convinced it was. At first I thought if it was arousal it would’ve happened while we were hugging and then I thought but I was afraid of hugging her and I was uncomfortable until I noticed her boobs and then I felt normal for a second where I was comfortable enough to say “dang girl you have big boobs like mine are half boob half fat but yours are like solid boob” and when I pulled away with that comment that’s when I felt it. Could I have been aroused by her boobs or did that comment freak me out and make me anxious enough to make that feeling? I don’t know. It didn’t feel like arousal and the the second it happened I started panicing like nobodys business but why did it happen? I was afraid, anticipating it, and trying to get away as fats as I could but then I let my guard down for 2 seconds, slowed down, made that comment like I was normal and then I got a tingling feeling in my lady parts( it didn’t feel good I mean it was just there) and it made me panic. Did it happen because I was aroused or because saying that comment made me anxious as well as slowing down long enough for the anxiety to catch up? —-The process behind the entire paragraph above is a compulsion and it is the repetition of this process which continues to fuel your obsession. >>>>Please how to I overcome this permanently not just temporarily? —-I can’t diagnose you from a blog comment, but you describe a lot of OCD symptoms and it sounds like they pretty intensely impair your functioning. The treatment for OCD that works is called cognitive behavioral therapy, including something called exposure with response prevention. It should be done in a structured and consistent format, which often means utilizing the services of an OCD specialist trained in doing this kind of therapy. If you are unable to access a therapist for financial or other reasons, you can try self-cbt by using a workbook, such as Freedom From Obsessive Compulsive Disorder by Jonathan Grayson or The OCD Workbook by Bruce Hyman. Nick August 15, 2013 at 4:57 pm - Reply Hello Dr. Hershfield Ive been suffering a lot and desperatley need help. I was diagnosed with ocd 5 years ago but never fully recovered from it and been having a lot of trouble with hocd for months. It started out as everyone else describes it, fearing you are gay and having intrusive thoughts and checking. But recently it’s gotten worse to the point where I just want to kill myself. I get these disgusting gay images from OCD that have been bothering me for weeks but recently they started to bother me less. As in I was afraid I liked them. One day the images popped back into my head and I got a little jolt of pleasure. That scared me out of my mind and I started shaking my head and saying no no no no no. It kept going for days, I kept having that same feeling. I feel like my brain is telling me I really like it but am just holding back. But I never liked guys. I always loved girls and wanted to be with them ever since I can remember. But recently these thoughts and images have me in them sometimes.And for some reason they don’t really bother me. I’m scared my brain has turned me gay and It says I just need to accept it. I know the way to get better from this is to accept the thoughts and let them pass, but im afraid that if I do that, the thoughts will get worse and i’ll like them and act out on them. Sometimes I feel like thats what my brain wants me to do but I just hold back and say no. Please help me doc, i’m really scared and I don’t want to be gay, I never was. I just want to like girls again. Please respond or give treatment options. And help would be very appreciated. Jonathan Hershfield August 15, 2013 at 7:50 pm - Reply >>>Hello Dr. Hershfield —I’m an MFT, just call me Jon. >>>Ive been suffering a lot and desperatley need help. I was diagnosed with ocd 5 years ago but never fully recovered from it and been having a lot of trouble with hocd for months. It started out as everyone else describes it, fearing you are gay and having intrusive thoughts and checking. But recently it’s gotten worse to the point where I just want to kill myself. —If you are concerned for your safety or are at any risk of self-harm, call 911 or go to an emergency room. >>>>I get these disgusting gay images from OCD that have been bothering me for weeks but recently they started to bother me less. As in I was afraid I liked them. One day the images popped back into my head and I got a little jolt of pleasure. That scared me out of my mind and I started shaking my head and saying no no no no no. It kept going for days, I kept having that same feeling. I feel like my brain is telling me I really like it but am just holding back. —The “no no no” compulsion and the other attempts to prove to yourself that you don’t like the thoughts only send the message to the brain that these thoughts are special, important, should be presented as intruders, and must involve some sort of debate. This i the opposite of what you are trying to achieve. Having a brain means having sick and disgusting thoughts from time to time. Trying to suppress or avoid sick, disgusting thoughts results in more sick and disgusting thoughts flooding your mind. To turn the tables on the ocd, your strategy should be to try to allow and even enjoy the thoughts. Enjoying thoughts that run contrary to your identity does not change your identity. I watch horror movies and have sick disgusting thoughts about murder when I do. This does not make me a murderer. >>>But I never liked guys. I always loved girls and wanted to be with them ever since I can remember. But recently these thoughts and images have me in them sometimes.And for some reason they don’t really bother me. I’m scared my brain has turned me gay and It says I just need to accept it. —This is irrelevant. You’re falling for a trap of telling yourself not to have certain thoughts. It’s no different than telling yourself not to think of purple elephants. >>>I know the way to get better from this is to accept the thoughts and let them pass, but im afraid that if I do that, the thoughts will get worse and i’ll like them and act out on them. Sometimes I feel like thats what my brain wants me to do but I just hold back and say no. Please help me doc, i’m really scared and I don’t want to be gay, I never was. I just want to like girls again. Please respond or give treatment options. And help would be very appreciated. —-If you stop doing compulsions, you run the risk of your fears coming true. (i.e. if I don;t wash my hands, I might get sick) Yet your compulsions don’t inoculate you from your fears coming true anyway. (one can wash their hands and get sick anyway) They don’t work. Plus, consider what your life would be like if you never took this risk and just constantly did what the OCD wanted you to do. That’s pretty much a guarantee of an unmanageable life. So the risk is always going to be a better bet. Have the thoughts, really try to have fun with them, welcome them, and accept that this may mean something that scares you. Consider that it may instead mean that you are no longer a slave to your ocd and still not gay. The risk is better than the guarantee. Are you in treatment for your OCD? Kat August 16, 2013 at 5:15 pm - Reply Hi Jon, I’m 23 and for the past couple of months I’ve been really struggling with what I now suspect might be HOCD. I started to question my sexuality when I realised I had a “crush” on an internet celebrity who happens to be gay. I noticed that I wanted to act, dress and be like her and also felt a physical and emotional attraction towards her. So I naturally started wondering if that meant that I might be gay or bisexual. I went through the same obsessive checking that other people have described, looking at women and men in real life constantly to see if I felt attraction, exposing myself to gay material and imagining myself in situations with a woman to see how I felt. I started to feel more turned on by thoughts about women than about men, to the extent where the thought of having sex with a man was not attractive to me. I obsessed over searching the internet for information on how people knew they were gay/bi and if it was possible that I had been in denial up until this point. I related to some peoples’ stories that they had never felt that sex with a man was “right” – I’ve never had a serious relationship with a man but have been intimate with 2 and had sex for the first time this year (which triggered what I now recognise as an OCD obsession that I was pregnant which lasted several months) but didn’t feel comfortable or attracted to the guy, I felt as though I was just “getting it out of the way”. Although I’ve felt what I think was attraction to men in the past, I’ve never felt a particularly strong desire to have sex. This led me to think that I may be asexual and made me even more confused. After weeks of going back and forth in my head, becoming increasingly anxious and depressed, I came to the conclusion that I was definitely attracted to women to some degree, and felt as though I could picture myself having a sexual and emotional relationship with a woman more than with a man. It also made sense when I thought back to crushes I’d had on girls throughout my life (which I’d always assumed were normal for straight people) and when I thought about how I’ve always felt the need to dress more “girly” than I would naturally so that people didn’t think I was a lesbian. I also thought back to a female friend I had when I was 16-18 who I was very close to and used to think of our relationship as being quite flirty, although we never addressed it as such – I liked to pick her up in my car and treat her to dinner and felt like we connected better than anyone else I knew. She came out to me as gay when we were 18 and at the time I hadn’t even really considered the possibility that I could be so thought nothing of it. But I used to think back to time we spent together and wonder if she was attracted to me and the thought that she might have been was exciting to me. So putting all these things together, I began to identify myself as bisexual, with the possibility that I could just be gay. It just felt natural and right and as though a lot of my past problems with identty now made a bit more sense. I told a few close friends how I was feeling and this made me feel a lot better momentarily as they were very supportive and told me that it was ok that I didn’t know at this point, I’d figure it out. However, when on my own again I constantly tried to find answers, sometimes feeling liked I’d figured it out, other times feeling more confused than ever. When I eventually came across an article describing HOCD, I had really mixed feelings. Firstly I had an overwhelming realisation that HOCD described what I was feeling (obsessing over finding an answer) so clearly that I could be in no doubt that I was suffering from it. But what I’m currently struggling with is this: I find it difficult to convince myself that what I’ve been feeling could be attributed to HOCD because I actually feel like I WANT to be gay or bisexual. I was disappointed and felt as though I’d “lost” an identity which I had come to accept or maybe even want. I’ve never been homophobic, although my parents are extremely so, I’ve felt like I’ve almost gone the opposite way and become a great supporter of gay people, especially since many of my friends are gay. I know that if I came out to my parents they would be very likely to disown me completely, which is why I feel that I wouldn’t WANT to accept being gay or bisexual if I wasn’t because I know how much hurt and pain it would cause. My fear and anxiety has not related to either being gay, bi or straight (I’ve felt most relaxed when I’ve felt like I am one of these) it has related to the NOT KNOWING. So, with apologies for the essay, I guess what I’m trying to figure out at the moment is: could I theoretically have come to the realisation that I’m gay/bisexual and become accepting of it alongside suffering from HOCD? Can accepting that I may never be sure allow me to function normally without suffering the anxiety and depression I have been going through? I know that only I can figure this out, but it has really helped to write this down if anything. I’ve been feeling numb to the world trying to get through this. Thanks. Jonathan Hershfield August 16, 2013 at 9:30 pm - Reply Hi Kat, thanks for sharing your story. The thing to remember about HOCD (or any OCD) is that it’s not about the content of the thoughts. It’s about uncertainty and how willing you are to tolerate it. You say you identify with being bisexual, that it makes sense to you and you derive pleasure from this identification. Good. Obsessing about it is a separate issue. Maybe the ocd wants you to know exactly “how” bi you are or know for sure that your feelings are “genuine” and not just a product of anxiety. Your task is to resist compulsive attempts at gaining certainty and pursue relationships with whomever you feel attracted to whenever you want, regardless of whether you know it’s the right call. Accept that you might spend your life identifying as bi and be somehow internally misinformed; that you might find out too late that enjoying a happy, healthy life of intimacy with people you love, that was fulfilling and rewarding, was somehow based on a mis-step. So be it. >>>Can accepting that I may never be sure allow me to function normally without suffering the anxiety and depression I have been going through? —Yes. But you have to behave like a person who accepts uncertainty, not just remind yourself intellectually. A person who accepts uncertainty does not devote significant energy to mentally reviewing their orientation or their ocd. Kat August 16, 2013 at 11:18 pm - Reply Thank you for your reply. What you said about the OCD wanting to know if the feelings are genuine is exactly right. I just feel like I want to be open and honest with people and I’m scared that by getting involved with anyone without being “sure” would be unfair to them. I suppose I’ll have to cross that bridge when I come to it. I’ve always wanted clarity and certainty in all aspects of my life (probably due to OCD) and it’s a constant struggle to accept that I will rarely find this, so it seems like sexual orientation is just going to have to be another aspect to add to the list of uncertainties. HOCD feels really lonely. I’ve found that with past obsessions about my health and accidents, I’ve found it really helpful to talk to family. I definitely couldn’t talk to my parents about it, but I don’t feel like I could be open about my HOCD thoughts to friends as I don’t think they’d understand the severity of the doubts and turmoil. When I told friends I thought I might be bi, it was because I was so low that I had to talk to someone. But although I told them I was very confused, I didn’t elaborate on the extent or extremity of what I was going through as I didn’t think I could even begin to explain and that they’d think I was “crazy”. Do you think it could be helpful to talk about it, or should I consider seeing a therapist? One other thing – do you think that constant obsessing over who I’m attracted to could have led me to lose my attraction to males? Although I’ve accepted that I seem to be attracted to females, I’ve found it difficult to still be attracted to men. It’s almost as though I’m convincing myself of reasons I’m not so attracted to them, although I’m sure I have been attracted to them in the past. Jonathan Hershfield August 17, 2013 at 2:04 am - Reply >>>>Thank you for your reply. What you said about the OCD wanting to know if the feelings are genuine is exactly right. I just feel like I want to be open and honest with people and I’m scared that by getting involved with anyone without being “sure” would be unfair to them. —This is a common OCD distorted thinking process. The implication is that you are responsible for the decisions of others to love you, that if they love you under false pretenses, then YOU are the one who is to blame. It overlooks that people are entitled to make their own decisions and accept the consequences of those decisions. What would be unfair to someone is to deny them the opportunity to love you only because your OCD has a theory you can’t disprove. >>>>I suppose I’ll have to cross that bridge when I come to it. I’ve always wanted clarity and certainty in all aspects of my life (probably due to OCD) and it’s a constant struggle to accept that I will rarely find this, so it seems like sexual orientation is just going to have to be another aspect to add to the list of uncertainties. —-As it should be! >>>>HOCD feels really lonely. I’ve found that with past obsessions about my health and accidents, I’ve found it really helpful to talk to family. I definitely couldn’t talk to my parents about it, but I don’t feel like I could be open about my HOCD thoughts to friends as I don’t think they’d understand the severity of the doubts and turmoil. When I told friends I thought I might be bi, it was because I was so low that I had to talk to someone. But although I told them I was very confused, I didn’t elaborate on the extent or extremity of what I was going through as I didn’t think I could even begin to explain and that they’d think I was “crazy”. Do you think it could be helpful to talk about it, or should I consider seeing a therapist? —-Sexual obsessions are difficult for people to share about because people often have difficulty just listening (unless you’re talking to another ocd sufferer or an ocd therapist). I think it would be helpful to talk with an ocd therapist for the purpose of improving your skill of accepting uncertainty. You might also try some of this on your own, such as with the book Freedom from Obsessive Compulsive Disorder by Jonathan Grayson, which is all about living with uncertainty. >>>>One other thing – do you think that constant obsessing over who I’m attracted to could have led me to lose my attraction to males? Although I’ve accepted that I seem to be attracted to females, I’ve found it difficult to still be attracted to men. It’s almost as though I’m convincing myself of reasons I’m not so attracted to them, although I’m sure I have been attracted to them in the past. —The theory is plausible. Many people report feeling like they’ve “lost” an attraction to something as a result of associating that thing with anxiety. In your case, you may also just not be particularly attracted to men, or might be very particular about what kind of man you consider attractive. The question to ask is why you think that’s so important. Kat August 17, 2013 at 4:23 pm - Reply Thanks again Jon, your article and advice have been really helpful to me. I will look into finding a therapist and have also ordered Jonathan Grayson’s book – hopefully I will be able to manage this better soon. Joseph August 19, 2013 at 5:44 pm - Reply Hello, I am almost 40. Have struggled with unwanted homosexual thoughts for a very long time. I have experimented with members of the same sex, but found it unfulfilling and confusing. I have been in several heterosexual relationships – mostly fulfilling, but also difficult, especially due to my SO OCD. I am currently in such a relationship. I care very much about the woman – we live together. I began CBT about 3 months ago – the first time I have done CBT. It is scarey, it is slow and it is confusing to my girlfriend. Unlike with other kinds of OCD, I think SO OCD is more covered up and I do not ask for her reassurance – do you think my finding that guy attractive makes me gay, but she senses my anxiety. In part, I worry about talking to her, because I do not want to seek reassurance, but also because I do not want her to worry and I am afraid that talking with her is going to convince her that I am gay and that she will want to leave me. She wants some help with this. How do couples make it through this kind of OCD? Thanks. Jonathan Hershfield August 20, 2013 at 4:34 am - Reply Hi Joseph, thanks for your comment. Obviously I don’t have the full complexity of your story, just this blog comment, so I can neither diagnose nor put a lot of stock into my assumptions. But from what I see here, the obsession has to do with whether or not the genuine same-sex attractions you DO feel mean you have to identify with the label attributed to someone who always prefers that attraction. So the answer is twofold. One issue is you need to accept the uncertainty that maybe these attractions could mean you are meant be with a man, but you are with a woman and have to find a way to cope with that. The other is that you need to accept that one of the things which make up your sexual mind involves the enjoyment of gay sexual experience. I personally don’t think that the presence of any attraction is the end-all-be-all of one’s sexual identity. But it has to be accepted as it is or its significance becomes distorted, and this is what often leads to obsessing. So enjoy finding guys attractive and don’t fall for the trap of assuming this means anything important about your relationship. As for her role in this, it’s not clear what it is she has to know. You say you are not seeking reassurance, but it sounds like you are confessing or something that serves the same function as reassurance seeking. Joseph August 20, 2013 at 7:22 pm - Reply I am not sure you understood – I said I found the experimenting with the same sex unfulfilling. Also, your point about accepting the uncertainty is something I have begun working on with my therapist. Thanks. Jonathan Hershfield August 20, 2013 at 8:18 pm - Reply No, I got that. I was not addressing the acts, just the thoughts (I meant “sexual experience” in the mind, sorry was unclear). My suggestion is just that you embrace whatever attractions you notice instead of analyzing them. You either experimented with the same sex because you were curious or you did it as a form of compulsive checking, but in either case it’s just something that happened. The idea of a person enjoying a sexual mental experience but not finding the acting out of that experience to be fulfilling certainly isn’t unusual. You can also find other women attractive, but that doesn’t mean cheating on your girlfriend is all it’s cracked up to be. As for the potential of your gf coming to the conclusion that you’re gay because you have certain thoughts and feelings, that is not something you can control. Sounds like you and your therapist are on the right track. One thing you and your therapist can work on is imaginal exposure to the fear that sharing your obsessive thoughts with your gf may result in her not getting it, thinking you’re gay, not wanting to be with you, and whatever other consequences you imagine could result. If your gf wants to help, she could read up on ocd and hopefully come to an understanding that you are not your disorder. Dave August 25, 2013 at 11:48 am - Reply How likely is it to be diagnosed HOCD by a therapist when in fact you are genuinely gay or in torture for finding out you are gay quite late and don’t want to accept it? Seems like they are very similar and easy to confuse. I had some therapy a few years back for this involving doing exposure affirmation cards/ looking at photos but got groinal responses. When I say groinal responses I am not sure if what I have qualifies or should it be labelled sexual arousal. If it is sexual arousal then this must be a sign I am gay? Also the fact that I have never gotten fully over this and have had it for 6 yrs now even with therapy makes me think that it’s not ocd and just gayness. Again thought I was straight up until age 24 but I realise that this counts for nothing. I have erection problems (either it’s a medical problem or the fact that wmen don’t arouse me) and have seen urologists for this. The question still bugs me that ‘if I was with a guy in bed or kissed a guy would my old erections come back?’ If they did it would prove to me that this is an arousal issue and not a medical one. But i dont want to kiss a guy. Or do i? Maybe I want to deep down and wont allow myself? Soemtimes it feels like I might be repressing arousal. The groinal response (IF THAT IS WHAT I HAVE) sometimes feels like repressed arousal or that I am trying to stop myself getting an erection of some sort. 🙁 I am not sure. I suppose the root cause of my anxiety is this: Are my erection problems caused by a medical issue or the fact that women do nt get me that aroused. I try to test with gay porn to see if guys do it for me but have never gotten 100% hard. In fact I have not had a 100% hard erection at ANYTIME since 2001. I had a bad bout of mono and lost my erections during the illness. I never had erection problems before that. I do not get full erections at night or in the mornong or during masturbation either. It’s 70% at best hard. So the question is always at me: Am I just gay and if I was with a guy would my excitement and rock hard erections come back? I guess I will never know unless I try it and right now I dont want to and hope never to try it. Oh one more thing that boithers me: When I have just barely woken up in the morning and am still 70% asleep and a thought of a guy pops into my head I sometimes get a mini erection. it cause blood to flow there and induce a semi erection. I wonder is my conscious morals shut off because I am half asleep and that my body is responding unimpeded to what arouses me. Then other mornings I picture a girl and nothing happens down there. This frightens me. It’s the same with groinal responses. They happen for guys not girls. I get a sexual feeling in my penis/testicles like you want to go and masturbate. I hate it. I used to get highly aroused by women in photos and on tv in my teens but not now. Maybe it was just because a teenager can be aroused by anything? Feels like I’m fighting a losing battle. I feel as if I have trouble explaining myself and describing this and it makes it very frustrating. I am trying my best to explain but not sure if any therapist really knows what its like. The scary thing is experiencing what feels like horrible sexual urges for something you find abhorrent. Again maybe I am just gay and have to learn to like the thoughts 🙁 Jonathan Hershfield August 25, 2013 at 6:14 pm - Reply >>>>How likely is it to be diagnosed HOCD by a therapist when in fact you are genuinely gay or in torture for finding out you are gay quite late and don’t want to accept it? Seems like they are very similar and easy to confuse. —No idea. Sounds like a trick question. One is an easily diagnosable mental illness with a specific symptom-set detailed in the DSM and the other is a sexual orientation. How likely it is for both things to co-occur is impossible to know and irrelevant to the question of whether or not obsessions and compulsions are worth investing in. >>>I had some therapy a few years back for this involving doing exposure affirmation cards/ looking at photos but got groinal responses. When I say groinal responses I am not sure if what I have qualifies or should it be labelled sexual arousal. If it is sexual arousal then this must be a sign I am gay? —I don’t know what an exposure affirmation card is. If you are doing exposure w/ response prevention treatment using gay imagery and getting groinal responses, then the most important element of the treatment would be to resist analysis of your groinal responses. Otherwise it’s like having contamination ocd, touching something dirty and then washing your hands. What would be the point? >>>>Also the fact that I have never gotten fully over this and have had it for 6 yrs now even with therapy makes me think that it’s not ocd and just gayness. Again thought I was straight up until age 24 but I realise that this counts for nothing. —Meh. I’ve had clients with obsessions lasting several decades. If you keep doing compulsions, there’s no reason to expect to get better. >>>>I have erection problems (either it’s a medical problem or the fact that wmen don’t arouse me) and have seen urologists for this. The question still bugs me that ‘if I was with a guy in bed or kissed a guy would my old erections come back?’ If they did it would prove to me that this is an arousal issue and not a medical one. But i dont want to kiss a guy. Or do i? Maybe I want to deep down and wont allow myself? Soemtimes it feels like I might be repressing arousal. The groinal response (IF THAT IS WHAT I HAVE) sometimes feels like repressed arousal or that I am trying to stop myself getting an erection of some sort. 🙁 I am not sure. —The problem is that you are trying to be sure about something which is inherently uncertain. The rest are details. >>>>I suppose the root cause of my anxiety is this: Are my erection problems caused by a medical issue or the fact that women do nt get me that aroused. I try to test with gay porn to see if guys do it for me but have never gotten 100% hard. In fact I have not had a 100% hard erection at ANYTIME since 2001. I had a bad bout of mono and lost my erections during the illness. I never had erection problems before that. I do not get full erections at night or in the mornong or during masturbation either. It’s 70% at best hard. —Testing is a compulsion, so whatever the results are of your “tests” in the moment, the end result is that you are left with a stronger obsession and more doubt. If what you want is confidence about whether or not you have performance anxiety, the only way to get there would be to stop the testing. >>>>So the question is always at me: Am I just gay and if I was with a guy would my excitement and rock hard erections come back? I guess I will never know unless I try it and right now I dont want to and hope never to try it. —Further, would your potential ability to become erect during a gay sexual act necessarily mean anything? Impossible to know. >>>>Oh one more thing that boithers me: When I have just barely woken up in the morning and am still 70% asleep and a thought of a guy pops into my head I sometimes get a mini erection. it cause blood to flow there and induce a semi erection. I wonder is my conscious morals shut off because I am half asleep and that my body is responding unimpeded to what arouses me. Then other mornings I picture a girl and nothing happens down there. This frightens me. It’s the same with groinal responses. They happen for guys not girls. I get a sexual feeling in my penis/testicles like you want to go and masturbate. I hate it. I used to get highly aroused by women in photos and on tv in my teens but not now. Maybe it was just because a teenager can be aroused by anything? —This sounds like more testing. Since erections are a common biological process for all men during waking hours, there’s no sense in trying to assess the meaning of whatever imagery you are checking in your mind. You could be thinking about trees and still have the same experience. There’s probably a joke here about morningwood, but I’m too lazy to work on it now. >>>>Feels like I’m fighting a losing battle. I feel as if I have trouble explaining myself and describing this and it makes it very frustrating. I am trying my best to explain but not sure if any therapist really knows what its like. The scary thing is experiencing what feels like horrible sexual urges for something you find abhorrent. —Horrible “urges” for something you find abhorrent could b used to describe any number of obsessions. I agree it may be difficult to find a therapist who really understands ocd. This doesn’t mean you should avoid looking altogether. The missing element in all of the above is clearly treatment of our ocd with cbt. >>>>Again maybe I am just gay and have to learn to like the thoughts 🙁 —Maybe you’re not gay and have to learn to accept the thoughts anyway. Bob August 26, 2013 at 10:12 pm - Reply I have heard ocd referred multiple times as an intolerance of uncertainty with compulsive urges to analyze thoughts and felings to gain certainty. Is the difference between GAD and ocd that it gad is a real life issue? And regardless of ocd or gad would you still choose to live with uncertainty let whatever happen, happen and live in the present? Lastly, lots of times like these, I feel like I need I need a definite conclusive answer to my questions tha are concerning me. Is that ocd? Jonathan Hershfield August 27, 2013 at 2:29 am - Reply —-The thing that typically sets GAD apart is its focus on “worry” as a strategy for addressing day-to-day problems (i.e. work or finances). In my opinion, worry is best described a compulsion, a mental ritual aimed at giving a sense of control, over the uncontrollable. It’s like thinking that if you lose your job and go bankrupt, at least you prepared by worrying a lot. But yes, in the end, the path to freedom is accepting uncertainty and living in the present. The present is the only reality that exists outside of your imagination. >>>Lastly, lots of times like these, I feel like I need I need a definite conclusive answer to my questions tha are concerning me. Is that ocd? —-Without knowing all the details, I’m hesitant to give you a definitive answer, but I know that’s not what you wan to hear! Generally, I would say yes, that the sense of urgency with which you feel you need THE answer is probably a symptom of your OCD. Stephen August 27, 2013 at 10:14 am - Reply Hi John I’d love some help and your advice. I’ve had different forms of OCD since childhood. In my adult life it’s been the Pure O, ie ruminations with non-visible compulsions involving reviewing past memories in a vain attempt to find a ‘resolution’ and to feel clean or not a horrible person. The worst things to deal with for me are any sexual guilt feelings based on distortions of past events. About two years ago at a low point in my life I happened to pay a visit to escorts (sex workers) on just a couple of occasions. Nothing bad occured as I see it but when I hear anything in the media about ‘sex trafficking’, etc it makes me feel a rotten person and I can’t resolve the fact that I did something that could have been harmful to another person or the potential indictment to my character is way over exaggerated. Part of me knows it’s the just the OCD but then another part says no, it’s different with you, you really did do something bad’. I don’t have moral objections to prostitution and believe consenting sex between adults is up to them yet I have these ongoing incessant Harm OCD thoughts. Please help if you can, thanks. Jonathan Hershfield August 29, 2013 at 10:52 pm - Reply Obsessions like these are often the consequence of OCD black-and-white, all-or-nothing thinking. As you pointed out, your mental review compulsion is designed to make you feel “clean” as if the possibility that you committed a “bad act” or have “bad traits” represents some kind of contaminant. Your sexual experiences in the past involve behaviors that fall within AND without your moral boundaries. The OCD wants it to be one or the other, but this is unrealistic. You have no moral objection to prostitution and the acts of consenting adults, but then you also acknowledge that paying someone for sex when they may be in some dire situation is inherently exploitative. That doesn’t make you a bad guy. The key here is to accept the possibility, the uncertainty over whether you possess certain undesirable qualities and not try to prove that you are “clean.” I am writing this in an office, wearing an office shirt. Nothing wrong there, except according to the tag, this shirt was made in Indonesia. I don’t know what the working conditions are for clothing manufacturers over there. I am not a bad guy for wearing this shirt, but I am also accepting the possibility that I am part of the problem for someone somewhere. Instead of trying to feel clean or right (or horrible vs non-horrible), your efforts should be aimed at simply being present with complexity. Bob August 27, 2013 at 6:54 pm - Reply You are very kind and the information you have provided has been helpful. But, reading the word probably in your last sentence doesn’t make me feel sure, which then makes me think i am trying to be certain, which in turn sounds like OCD. I think I know what i need to do: live with the doubt and uncertainty! Would you agree? I have had OCD for a long time (20 yrs)and until now, just started to get treatment. Getting answers to be certain and being sure seems like something that i do with everything. So, it is hard to differentiate sometimes which can be OCD, perfectionism and what i don’t think is GAD b/c i don’t “worry” about real life things as much as i do more OCD type things. Jonathan Hershfield August 29, 2013 at 10:58 pm - Reply Sounds like OCD to me. You will have to learn to accept uncertainty, which you can do with cognitive behavioral therapy and exposure w/ response prevention. Julianna September 2, 2013 at 4:00 pm - Reply I am so grateful that i have stumbled across this article. I believe I am suffering from HOCD but im not sure, its like one day I woke up and had this notion that I was gay and I havent been able to shake it since. Some days its so bad I cry all day, and dont want to go in public. I try and test myself, by looking at pictures of lesbians, and making up scenarios in my head which only seems to make things worse because sometimes i dont get anxiety about it. Also i avoid watching TV shows that I know have lesbian scenes, because I am scared that itll make me lesbian or cause me to have a revelation. Recently Ill get urges to kiss people, co workers, friends, just about anyone and they get really bad. I try to avoid hanging out with my friend in fear that Ill act on an impulse when i really dont want to, but the urge feels so strong. I also have a boyfriend of a year and a half, whom i love so much and im scared that I am going to hurt him and that Im just in denial. I heard this story of a guy who dated a girl for 5 years and than said he was gay, and now im scared that that will be me. I search the internet for hours sometimes until i feel a post that puts me to ease, or I ask my boyfriend for reassurance. or after we have sex i always ask does it look like i was enjoying it, or am i wet, or was i aroused enought. I have had multiple partners before and never ever questioned my sexuality before this. Im so scared that I have been in denial my whole life, and that im going to hurt my boyfriend and others. Its like i dont even know who I am anymore. and im not sure i have hocd because sometimes i almost give into my urges. Also once before i had a dream about one of my girl friends touching my boobs and them kissing me, so that must be a sign i am gay but in denial right. it didnt bother me back than but now its one of the sole reasons im questioning it all? and sometimes i get the thoughts or urges and dont get anxiety over it, I just brush it off. so i must not have ocd becuase if i did every thought would trigger anxiety? also wouldnt their be signs of ocd before, you cant just one day become ocd about your sexuality. please help because its effecting my relationship and sometimes I feel really depressed and suicidal because everything i once was sure about, I am questioning and i feel trapped. Jonathan Hershfield September 5, 2013 at 12:07 am - Reply —-Hi Julianna, thanks for your comment and I’m glad the article was helpful for you! >>>>I am so grateful that i have stumbled across this article. I believe I am suffering from HOCD but im not sure, its like one day I woke up and had this notion that I was gay and I havent been able to shake it since. Some days its so bad I cry all day, and dont want to go in public. I try and test myself, by looking at pictures of lesbians, —This “testing” is a compulsion that makes your obsession stronger. >>>>and making up scenarios in my head which only seems to make things worse because sometimes i dont get anxiety about it. —Reviewing and testing your made-up scenarios is a mental ritual (another kind of compulsion). >>>>Also i avoid watching TV shows that I know have lesbian scenes, because I am scared that itll make me lesbian or cause me to have a revelation. —Consider what message your brain is receiving here. One person watches tv and occasionally sees something that bothers her, but continues to watch anyway. Another one avoids watching tv in response to thoughts about lesbian content. Which person is likely to start believing that lesbian thoughts are very important? >>>>Recently Ill get urges to kiss people, co workers, friends, just about anyone and they get really bad. I try to avoid hanging out with my friend in fear that Ill act on an impulse when i really dont want to, but the urge feels so strong. —It’s important to understand that what you are calling “urges” are really thoughts and thoughts do not determine your behavior. Avoiding people only sends the message to your brain that your thoughts have special powers. >>>>I also have a boyfriend of a year and a half, whom i love so much and im scared that I am going to hurt him and that Im just in denial. I heard this story of a guy who dated a girl for 5 years and than said he was gay, and now im scared that that will be me. I search the internet for hours sometimes until i feel a post that puts me to ease, or I ask my boyfriend for reassurance. or after we have sex i always ask does it look like i was enjoying it, or am i wet, or was i aroused enought. I have had multiple partners before and never ever questioned my sexuality before this. Im so scared that I have been in denial my whole life, and that im going to hurt my boyfriend and others. Its like i dont even know who I am anymore. —There’s a lot of compulsive behavior going on here, and everything you describe is consistent with an OCD diagnosis. >>>>and im not sure i have hocd because sometimes i almost give into my urges. Also once before i had a dream about one of my girl friends touching my boobs and them kissing me, so that must be a sign i am gay but in denial right. it didnt bother me back than but now its one of the sole reasons im questioning it all? and sometimes i get the thoughts or urges and dont get anxiety over it, I just brush it off. so i must not have ocd becuase if i did every thought would trigger anxiety? —The notion that one’s ability to enjoy something sexual automatically means they are oriented to that thing makes little sense to me. Why can’t you just be a person who has thoughts and enjoys them sometimes and doesn’t let it define her? Anyone who says they never had a gay dream in which they were doing a gay thing and liking it is probably lying. Having that experience in your mind doesn;t make you gay. It just means you have a brain. >>>>also wouldnt their be signs of ocd before, you cant just one day become ocd about your sexuality. please help because its effecting my relationship and sometimes I feel really depressed and suicidal because everything i once was sure about, I am questioning and i feel trapped. —In order to get out of this prison, you are going to have to stop trying to prove you are straight and stop trying to protect yourself from being a were-lesbian (that’s my new name for people who turn into lesbians on full moons). In all seriousness, it sounds like you got bit by the ocd bug pretty bad and need to get some CBT help from someone who understands the disorder. If you can’t access help (if you tell me where you are, maybe I can recommend someone), you might try self-cbt with an ocd book. rob September 2, 2013 at 6:08 pm - Reply Hi- would you call afraid losing something of great value such as the love of someone, analyzing and scheming to do things to prevent thatfrom happening, drinking to reduce anxiety surrounding that uncertainty of what will happen as ocd bc of the fear and compulsions to reduce it. The themes of ocd can switch very quickly and I want to make sure It is an ocd event so that I can manage it..if it is ocd, what would the imaginative erp look like? Thanks Jonathan Hershfield September 5, 2013 at 12:10 am - Reply This is a little abstract, so I can;t really give much of an opinion. Drinking to reduce anxiety is a bad idea. In any case, it does sound like you are obsessing about the potential of an event occurring and using a variety of rituals to make yourself feel certain it won’t happen, so I would probably call that OCD. Imaginal ERP would involve describing the consequences of the feared event occurring and how you would deal with it. O is for Over and Over and .... September 7, 2013 at 6:51 pm - Reply Thank you for the article. I have read hundreds like this in my attempts of reassuring myself. I wanted to bring to your attention a issue that compounds this disease and was wondering if you had any experiences with other clients. There is strong evidence that Internet porn does desensitize ones sexual arousal response to those of their own orientation. To compond that, internet porn and desensitization has been shown to cause many to search out ever more extreme porn to elicit the same dopamine and arousal response. Ever since I can remember I have been highly aroused by women’s bodies and I have always liked looking at heterosexual pornography magazines. I love being in relationships with women and i have never thought twice about my sexuality – for 30 years! (Age 43) But now after seeing thousands and thousands of images online of naked women I am feeling the effects of desensitization – i am left with less arousal response for my own orientation. This make sexual orientation OCD even more diabolical in my opinion. I thnk men should be informd that too much Internet porn floods the dopamine centers and can actually lead them to recondition and make new pathways in their brains causing them to find other people/objects outside of their natural sexual orientation arousing. This is a large phenomenon happening out there. Men are over using Internet porn and with all the same consequences – loss of arousal for their own orientation and new arousal for things that they find objectionable and disturbing. So many who suffer from HOCD and other sexual orientation ocd, exposed is not always the remedy. They may very well get turned on by seeing naked men. Many heterosexual men do! There are strong studies that indicate that the number two hiest arousal response of heterosexual men are…penises. Mix this in with internet desensitiztion and is is why I think those on the psychology field are a little behind in the neuroscience that is being shown as of late. I think people with sexal orientation issues also need to realize that it is important to distinguish fantasy from behavior. Many people not only fighht against unwanted fantasies but actualyengage in fantasies about many taboo and forbidden subjects but neither see that as in indication of orientation or of some hidden sexuality ready to creep up at some point. There are many books on e subject heterosexual fantasy life and many HOCD sufferers might be surprised that many heterosexual males engage in gay fantasy and gay porn without ever thinking they are gay. Bottom line – sexuality is a complex thi that science still does not have a strong grasp on(still using old Kinsian ideas) and to have HOCD just compounds that very complex internal world. O is for Over and Over and .... September 7, 2013 at 9:17 pm - Reply BTW I think it amazing how you take the time to reply to all these people who suffering. It shows great compassion and professional integrity. All of your responses are very helpful and address so many of the different aspects of this disorder. It gives me hope to know that therapists really do care and don’t just see us as another paycheck. I sometimes get that feeling from my own therapist. I brought up my SO-OCD and the next week he started talking about a completely different SO-OCD he thought/assumed I had even though i spent a great deal of trust and energy the week before explaining my particularly nasty form of SO-OCD. This made me feel that he wasn’t really paying attention to my particular concerns and I was somewhat disappointed. But I gave him the benefit of the doubt and he is a good guy but still… Jonathan Hershfield September 8, 2013 at 9:50 pm - Reply Thanks for the positive feedback! It’s not always so easy to immediately grasp the complexity of an obsession on the first go-around. Sometimes it’s a matter of the client tolerating the uncertainty over whether or not the therapist “gets it” until the treatment approach is made clear. Jonathan Hershfield September 8, 2013 at 9:48 pm - Reply >>>>Thank you for the article. I have read hundreds like this in my attempts of reassuring myself. I wanted to bring to your attention a issue that compounds this disease and was wondering if you had any experiences with other clients. There is strong evidence that Internet porn does desensitize ones sexual arousal response to those of their own orientation. To compond that, internet porn and desensitization has been shown to cause many to search out ever more extreme porn to elicit the same dopamine and arousal response. —Yes, but I would add that both of these assertions depend heavily on the amount of time spent on viewing pornography, the frequency of the viewing, and the role the viewing takes in that person’s larger sexual life. It is not a given that viewing pornography always results in desensitization or addiction/tolerance. That being said, it does seem to be the case for many people. >>>>Ever since I can remember I have been highly aroused by women’s bodies and I have always liked looking at heterosexual pornography magazines. I love being in relationships with women and i have never thought twice about my sexuality – for 30 years! (Age 43) But now after seeing thousands and thousands of images online of naked women I am feeling the effects of desensitization – i am left with less arousal response for my own orientation. This make sexual orientation OCD even more diabolical in my opinion. I thnk men should be informd that too much Internet porn floods the dopamine centers and can actually lead them to recondition and make new pathways in their brains causing them to find other people/objects outside of their natural sexual orientation arousing. This is a large phenomenon happening out there. Men are over using Internet porn and with all the same consequences – loss of arousal for their own orientation and new arousal for things that they find objectionable and disturbing. —-Yes, there is probably something to this. I would suggest also that men often overestimate how aroused they are supposed to be, so when they see a natural decrease in arousal due to repetitive viewing of pornography, they assume this means something about their attraction to women, when in fact it means nothing. Some men who no longer find “traditional” pornography to be satisfying will search for stimulating material in increasingly taboo themes. Some don’t. It is unclear what the reason is for this disparity, but it is unlikely having anything to do with sexual orientation and probably has more to do with addiction models of behavior. >>>>So many who suffer from HOCD and other sexual orientation ocd, exposed is not always the remedy. They may very well get turned on by seeing naked men. Many heterosexual men do! There are strong studies that indicate that the number two hiest arousal response of heterosexual men are…penises. —For Exposure with Response Prevention (ERP) treatment to work, the person engaging in the exposure must resist the compulsive response of trying to self-reassure about their sexuality. Whether they become aroused or not is irrelevant. What matters is how they respond to whatever happens in the exposure. That being said, exposure to pornography is not the only form of exposure to one’s fear of being gay and is not always the most effective approach, particularly for someone who may be addicted to pornography. In those cases, I have found imaginal exposures and other environmental exposures (i.e. being around other gay triggers) to be more effective. In some cases, treatment for the porn addiction may be necessary before or concurrent to treatment for the OCD. >>>>Mix this in with internet desensitiztion and is is why I think those on the psychology field are a little behind in the neuroscience that is being shown as of late. I think people with sexal orientation issues also need to realize that it is important to distinguish fantasy from behavior. Many people not only fighht against unwanted fantasies but actualyengage in fantasies about many taboo and forbidden subjects but neither see that as in indication of orientation or of some hidden sexuality ready to creep up at some point. There are many books on e subject heterosexual fantasy life and many HOCD sufferers might be surprised that many heterosexual males engage in gay fantasy and gay porn without ever thinking they are gay. —True. The presence of and the enjoyment of fantasy is not an automatic predictor of orientation. >>>Bottom line – sexuality is a complex thi that science still does not have a strong grasp on(still using old Kinsian ideas) and to have HOCD just compounds that very complex internal world. —Sexuality is far more complex an issue than OCD itself. I think one of the things that may be important to remember is that the issue an HOCD sufferer needs to grasp is not whether or not they are gay, but the independent reality that obsessing and compulsing doesn’t achieve results. Dave September 15, 2013 at 2:03 am - Reply Great blog and writings ! Tonight I’ve finally put a name on what I’ve been experiencing for several months now (but that actually got worse in the recent weeks to the point of a certain anxiety). It has been really relieving to see those comments and descriptions that has help me understand what I’m going through and now I know that it can be treated with different technics. I will also speak to my GP about a treatment in case my own effort would not pay off ! Thinking backward I can now detect when things started and how the OCD insidiously grew from being thoughts that you naturally ignore to ones that lead you to questionning then reassuring mainly through checking (gay porn, mental image, self questioning, groin reaction check…) which started to make life a little nightmare. I had already started to decide to accept whatever those thoughts could mean while continue to live my live. Letting go about it and accepting that a thought is a thought but not a reality has been a good starting point I think. Maybe focusing on living your life as you want it to be can be a good approach while accepting that the parasite thoughts are part of a perceived reality that only your mind (OCD here) will really give an importance to and that if you fully embrace those thoughts (for what they are) then your mind will end up seeing them as a particular perception of your environment and not an expression of a reality… I hope that I will manage to tackle this trouble and I think that your articles (and the whole blog and comments) will be very useful in adopting the right approach and learning how to improve the usage of the technics. Thanks a lot again for taking some of your time to share your analysis and knowledge of this problem for our benefits ! Jonathan Hershfield September 20, 2013 at 2:39 pm - Reply Dave, thanks for your great comment and the positive feedback. I bet a lot of people reading this will benefit from seeing your perspective on the issue. ivan September 19, 2013 at 2:20 am - Reply is it possible to feel like you want these thoughts even though theres no sexual arousal whatsoever? i never had these thoughts for my whole life… everything felt right. then i became jealous of guys who got all the girls. and my bitterness and anger from rejection mad me madder and madder. and i was losing my interest in dating. and girls. but I’m im still sexually attracted to girls. then all of a sudden it started. i asked, what if im gay? then the insomnia, the stress, low libido, deeper depression,lower confidence…. the crying, the screaming in my head. my loss of interest in playing video games, doing things that i enjoyed doing. hell im afraid to sleep in my room. so i sleep on the couch. i masturbate every day. i check to see if im aroused by gay porn . but im not. just tingling like im getting erect, but im still flaccid… its hard to even talk to people about this. ive read on forums about hocd. and its like some people believe its an excuse for people in the closet… which made me panic even more. sometimes the mental anxiety isnt there. like im getting used to the thoughts. but i never had questioned myself when i was younger.. i dated girls, each girl i was with i was in love with. and they all made me erect. its like im losing attraction. and im freefalling into an abyss of torment, confusion, and suffering. someone please help! Jonathan Hershfield September 20, 2013 at 2:52 pm - Reply >>>>is it possible to feel like you want these thoughts even though theres no sexual arousal whatsoever? —-More than possible, I would say it’s common. It’s the confusing thoughts of “you want this” that creates anxiety and pushes you to do compulsions. People with Harm OCD, though terrified of ever doing something harmful, also have “feelings” of agreement with the thoughts that trigger severe anxiety. >>>>i never had these thoughts for my whole life… everything felt right. then i became jealous of guys who got all the girls. and my bitterness and anger from rejection mad me madder and madder. and i was losing my interest in dating. and girls. but I’m im still sexually attracted to girls. then all of a sudden it started. i asked, what if im gay? then the insomnia, the stress, low libido, deeper depression,lower confidence…. the crying, the screaming in my head. my loss of interest in playing video games, doing things that i enjoyed doing. hell im afraid to sleep in my room. so i sleep on the couch. i masturbate every day. i check to see if im aroused by gay porn . but im not. just tingling like im getting erect, but im still flaccid… its hard to even talk to people about this. —Sorry to hear you are struggling so much. Sounds like depression is also a factor here. You describe doing a lot of compulsions. This is strengthening and emboldening the OCD to make you feel hopeless. You will have to stop doing compulsions to get better and you may need the guidance of an ocd specialists or at least an ocd workbook of some kind. >>>>ive read on forums about hocd. and its like some people believe its an excuse for people in the closet… which made me panic even more. —Some people believe a lot of things. >>>>sometimes the mental anxiety isnt there. like im getting used to the thoughts. but i never had questioned myself when i was younger.. i dated girls, each girl i was with i was in love with. and they all made me erect. its like im losing attraction. and im freefalling into an abyss of torment, confusion, and suffering. someone please help! —You can help yourself if you approach the problem the way it really is. It is OCD and there is a treatment for it called cognitive behavioral therapy. Dave September 23, 2013 at 8:30 pm - Reply Hi, I have a problem when I have sex with my girlfriend or masturbate about women and that is the orgasm or when I ejaculate feels muted or anorgasmic, with not much nice feeling if any. Then if I test by masturbating about a guy I get that nice feeling – an orgasm like how it used to feel when I masturnated to women years ago. My fear and worry is that if my body can only get this feeling for ‘gay’ fantasies now then surely that means I am biologically gay or genuinely gay as that seems to be the only thing that gets me off. I mean if my body can only get that nice orgasm for gay thoughts then I must be gay regardless of what my will is or what I want to be. This is scary. This makes me think it genuinely is a sexuality issue and not an ocd one. This makes me depressed. Jonathan Hershfield September 27, 2013 at 9:54 pm - Reply Dave, your problem i that you spend too much (actually any) time analyzing the significance of the quality of your ejaculations. The testing is a compulsion that fuels your obsession. The results of compulsive testing are irrelevant because the experiment is designed by your OCD. If you enjoy masturbating to gay fantasies, then enjoy it and stop trying to figure out what this says about your identity. If you want to have a sexual relationship with your girlfriend, then have it, and stop comparing it to your fantasies. Nicky September 28, 2013 at 10:27 am - Reply Hi! I’m 16 and I think I might have HOCD but I’m not completely sure. I’ve never been diagnosed with one, but I think I’ve always had some simptoms. I remember I was 7 and on the 3th annivesary of September 11th I was watching an old footage about it on the tv. I was watching the same thing on that day 3 years ago, but I was 4 and didn’t know what was really going on. But this time it was different. I got really scarred and every time I’d hear or see a plane I’d panick. One day I was home alone and doing my homework and I was hearing a lot of planes and I was really panicking, I couldn’t focus on my work and I started crying while I was trying to convince myself that there’s nothing to worry about. This fear went away after a week or so. But later when I was 11 my brother got diagnosed with diabetes and I was really scarred that I would be diagnosed as well. I read about the symptoms and then I thought I have some of them and I would panick and then check again and try to convince myself I’m wrong, but the more I did, the more obsessed I was getting. And then this went away, but every time something in my body started to ache, I would be scarred that it is a symptom for cancer or something else. This year both my granddads died because of cancer and I was stressed that I could be sick again. And maybe 1 1/2 month ago I started thinking was lesbian. I’ve always had crushes on guys, but I was watching something on the internet about sexual orientation and I thought: “What if I’m a lesbian?” I freaked out and tried to convince myself I’m not by looking at pictures at guys and girls and see what I’m attracted to. Then I started to calm down. For one year I’ve been having a crush on a guy from my class but 1 or 2 days before starting school I realized I’m not having such strong feelings for him as I used to. And started freaking out again but this time that I’m inlove with my best friend and then in a girl I’m not very close friend with but enjoy as a company. And then as those fears went away, I started thinking I might be inlove with a girl I strongly disliked. There was some drama around her on a camp earlier this year and she shared with me and some other girls she was inlove with a girl from my class. Lately I was feeling sorry for her because two of the girls told everyone about that and now the whole school knows and some people are giving her bad looks and she is trying to convince everyone she is heterosexual again. I realized that I don’t dislike her as I used to year ago and freaked out thinking I’m falling for her. The thought of beeing with her or another girl made me feel depressed and anxious but didn’t leave my head. Mum was very worried about me and I told her about that and I almost felt like crying but I was convinced that I’m inlove. She told me that my mind is just playing games and I’m straight and I shouldn’t worry about that and even if I wasn’t hetero she would accept me and love me no matter what but this didn’t make me feel better. I was searching about that on the internet and found out about HOCD and realized that trere are lots of people with the same problem and I calmed down a little. I realized that I don’t love this girl and actually I still don’t enjoy her company even though I feel bad for her trying to deny her orientation only because some people’s attitude. And I thought it was over…But it wasn’t. The other day I slept over at a friend of mine. We are very close and lately I’ve been thinking I’m closer to her than let’s say 2 months ago, because I was thinking she has changed a little. Before I went I wasn’t feeling like sleeping at her house but I went because I promised. I was calm already but then I was getting scarred again. We were having fun together but every time I saw a good looking woman on the tv I’d panick that I”m sexually attracted to her. And then I was thinking that I’m closer to this girl and I freaked out again, thinking I am inlove with her. I couldn’t look at her face without beeing scarred I’d feel something for her. The next day at school I was afraid that I’d crave her touches and attention like I used to when I had crush to this guy from my class if I’m close to her and now I don’t know what to do anymore. I still feel her close and I want to be friend with her but I’m afraid I’m falling for her. I get this unpleasant feeling every time I remember something about the night at her house. I feel like I’m leasbian but at the same time like I’m punished and someone is forbidding me being with a guy. I’ve always dreamed about being in a relationship with a guy, I’ve always wanted one, but now I feel like I won’t fall for one, but instead for a girl. I sometimes feel like I’m okay with that. I’m scarred and I dont want that, I’m afraid every time I talk to a girl that I might be attracted to her. Sometimes I’m calm when I get some of these feelings and this really makes wonder what’s going on. I can’t concentrate on doing things I’d normally could and I’m afraid watching movies or animes, because I could be attracted to a woman. Right now I’m calm even though I think about this girl. I think that I’m starting to accept this and I want to be in a relationship with her, but at the same time I don’t want to and I’d give everything not to have such thoughts and just live my life normally. I’m really confused because I don’t feel as panicked as I used to let’s say this morning. This turned to be a very long post and my english is not the best and I apologize about that, but I really need an advice and I’d be really happy if you could give me one, because I can’t afford to visit an OCD specialist. Jonathan Hershfield September 29, 2013 at 6:06 pm - Reply >>>>Hi! I’m 16 and I think I might have HOCD but I’m not completely sure. I’ve never been diagnosed with one, but I think I’ve always had some simptoms. I remember I was 7 and on the 3th annivesary of September 11th I was watching an old footage about it on the tv. I was watching the same thing on that day 3 years ago, but I was 4 and didn’t know what was really going on. But this time it was different. I got really scarred and every time I’d hear or see a plane I’d panick. One day I was home alone and doing my homework and I was hearing a lot of planes and I was really panicking, I couldn’t focus on my work and I started crying while I was trying to convince myself that there’s nothing to worry about. This fear went away after a week or so. But later when I was 11 my brother got diagnosed with diabetes and I was really scarred that I would be diagnosed as well. I read about the symptoms and then I thought I have some of them and I would panick and then check again and try to convince myself I’m wrong, but the more I did, the more obsessed I was getting. And then this went away, but every time something in my body started to ache, I would be scarred that it is a symptom for cancer or something else. This year both my granddads died because of cancer and I was stressed that I could be sick again. —Sounds like you have a history with anxiety at least. Health anxiety in particular is a common obsession. >>>>And maybe 1 1/2 month ago I started thinking was lesbian. I’ve always had crushes on guys, but I was watching something on the internet about sexual orientation and I thought: “What if I’m a lesbian?” I freaked out and tried to convince myself I’m not by looking at pictures at guys and girls and see what I’m attracted to. Then I started to calm down. —I would suggest that right here we look at how you had a doubtful thought and your immediate response to that thought was to engage in a series of checking and reassurance-seeking compulsions. You had an obsessive thought and your first strategy was to engage in compulsions. Obsessions and compulsions. >>>>For one year I’ve been having a crush on a guy from my class but 1 or 2 days before starting school I realized I’m not having such strong feelings for him as I used to. And started freaking out again but this time that I’m inlove with my best friend and then in a girl I’m not very close friend with but enjoy as a company. —Fear of “loving” a friend is common in HOCD. >>>>And then as those fears went away, I started thinking I might be inlove with a girl I strongly disliked. There was some drama around her on a camp earlier this year and she shared with me and some other girls she was inlove with a girl from my class. Lately I was feeling sorry for her because two of the girls told everyone about that and now the whole school knows and some people are giving her bad looks and she is trying to convince everyone she is heterosexual again. I realized that I don’t dislike her as I used to year ago and freaked out thinking I’m falling for her. The thought of beeing with her or another girl made me feel depressed and anxious but didn’t leave my head. Mum was very worried about me and I told her about that and I almost felt like crying but I was convinced that I’m inlove. She told me that my mind is just playing games and I’m straight and I shouldn’t worry about that and even if I wasn’t hetero she would accept me and love me no matter what but this didn’t make me feel better. I was searching about that on the internet and found out about HOCD and realized that trere are lots of people with the same problem and I calmed down a little. I realized that I don’t love this girl and actually I still don’t enjoy her company even though I feel bad for her trying to deny her orientation only because some people’s attitude. And I thought it was over…But it wasn’t. The other day I slept over at a friend of mine. We are very close and lately I’ve been thinking I’m closer to her than let’s say 2 months ago, because I was thinking she has changed a little. Before I went I wasn’t feeling like sleeping at her house but I went because I promised. I was calm already but then I was getting scarred again. We were having fun together but every time I saw a good looking woman on the tv I’d panick that I”m sexually attracted to her. And then I was thinking that I’m closer to this girl and I freaked out again, thinking I am inlove with her. I couldn’t look at her face without beeing scarred I’d feel something for her. The next day at school I was afraid that I’d crave her touches and attention like I used to when I had crush to this guy from my class if I’m close to her and now I don’t know what to do anymore. I still feel her close and I want to be friend with her but I’m afraid I’m falling for her. I get this unpleasant feeling every time I remember something about the night at her house. —-You describe responding to thoughts about being attracted to pretty girls with fear and panic. It makes one wonder how someone who actually is a lesbian feels when they see pretty girls. Overall it sounds like you are having thoughts, which are normal events, and then telling yourself the thoughts are dangerous somehow, and then doing compulsions to make yourself feel safe. This only makes the thoughts present themselves as more threatening each time. A better strategy would be to accept the thoughts that are in your head, accept that there is uncertainty about their meaning, and not do anything to try to stop them. >>>I feel like I’m leasbian but at the same time like I’m punished and someone is forbidding me being with a guy. I’ve always dreamed about being in a relationship with a guy, I’ve always wanted one, but now I feel like I won’t fall for one, but instead for a girl. I sometimes feel like I’m okay with that. I’m scarred and I dont want that, I’m afraid every time I talk to a girl that I might be attracted to her. —The question remains why you are afraid of having thoughts and feelings when thoughts and feelings are not automatically meaningful. The answer is in how you are responding to those thoughts and feelings. >>>>Sometimes I’m calm when I get some of these feelings and this really makes wonder what’s going on. I can’t concentrate on doing things I’d normally could and I’m afraid watching movies or animes, because I could be attracted to a woman. Right now I’m calm even though I think about this girl. I think that I’m starting to accept this and I want to be in a relationship with her, but at the same time I don’t want to and I’d give everything not to have such thoughts and just live my life normally. I’m really confused because I don’t feel as panicked as I used to let’s say this morning. This turned to be a very long post and my english is not the best and I apologize about that, but I really need an advice and I’d be really happy if you could give me one, because I can’t afford to visit an OCD specialist. —Sounds like OCD to me. But unfortunately my advice is to go see an OCD specialist. Since this is not an option for you at the moment, I would suggest getting some books on OCD and trying to construct a program for yourself that involves gradually confronting your unwanted thoughts while resisting all the compulsive analysis and self-reassurance. You might want to join an OCD discussion board for support as well. Rax September 28, 2013 at 10:52 am - Reply Hi, thanks for this article. Here is my story. I have gotten drunk with some guy I met for the first time, and we went to his friends house. I suspected they are homosexual because of their behavior. I started to become afraid that they will rape me and I went off home. The guy I met started to walk with me, so I asked him if he is homosexual. He said, why do you asked, I explained that I suspected that he and his friend are homosexual. He said no, why would you say that, I said because you looked a bit homosexual. And at one point he said that he doesn’t know, and that he said he has some homosexual feelings. I said ok, that’s fine. But he didn’t know still, he kept saying that he doesn’t know if he is or isn’t. And he said to me, maybe you’re are gay. Than I started to analyze everything (I am straight by the way), and to get this really bad feelings, including fear. I have seen him the other day, he said that I am afraid of my feelings… Whatever… Never seen him again. So how come he doesn’t know, that is my first question, and second one is, is not thinking about it the only way to let it go, and how to deal with all that. I keep seeking from reassurance in all forms… Thank you in advance, best regards. Jonathan Hershfield September 29, 2013 at 6:10 pm - Reply >>>>Hi, thanks for this article. Here is my story. I have gotten drunk with some guy I met for the first time, and we went to his friends house. —I’m hesitant to ask why you would go to the friend of a stranger’s house after drinking? >>>>I suspected they are homosexual because of their behavior. I started to become afraid that they will rape me and I went off home. The guy I met started to walk with me, so I asked him if he is homosexual. He said, why do you asked, I explained that I suspected that he and his friend are homosexual. He said no, why would you say that, I said because you looked a bit homosexual. And at one point he said that he doesn’t know, and that he said he has some homosexual feelings. I said ok, that’s fine. But he didn’t know still, he kept saying that he doesn’t know if he is or isn’t. And he said to me, maybe you’re are gay. Than I started to analyze everything (I am straight by the way), and to get this really bad feelings, including fear. I have seen him the other day, he said that I am afraid of my feelings… Whatever… Never seen him again. So how come he doesn’t know, that is my first question, —I don’t know him so there’s no way I can answer that question with any authority. I think the more important question is why you think getting an answer to this question is important and why it matters to you what goes on in another person’s head. >>>and second one is, is not thinking about it the only way to let it go, and how to deal with all that. I keep seeking from reassurance in all forms… Thank you in advance, best regards. —-You wrote above that you are straight. When you try to convince yourself of something you already know, the brain automatically starts to presume there is some sort of debate going on. This fuels doubt and fear, and an urge to seek more reassurance. It’s not about resisting thinking. It’s about resisting compulsions. Dave September 28, 2013 at 11:49 am - Reply I don’t enjoy it. I don’t want to do it but feel I have to see if it will make me more aroused than my straight fantasies. Trying not to figure it out seems like sweeping the problem under the carpet and hearing no evil, speaking no evil and seeing no evil. I fear that I’m gay and just have such a built up objection to it in my mind that I cant be one or it is suppressed so much I cant give myself permission to be one. (I dont want to be one) Also there are so many little things that could indicate me being gay. For example last night I watched some film called American Pie 2009 and there were really hot girls naked and I wasn’t trying or aything but I simply dont get aroused by that anymore. It wasnt a case of me being tense or anxious. I was relaxed and just observed that nothing was happening downstairs when I saw boobs etc.. Then there was a scene at the end where the guy runs out of the house naked and you can see his butt and I felt a slight arousal and enlargening down there and then terror set in and stopped any further arousal. This is one of many many such scenarios that make me feel depressed and worried and convinced I’m gay 🙁 I have been getting gay dreams (not wet ones so far) but also have had some ones where I have been having sex with my mother (sick I know). Dunno what they mean. I used to get very aroused by boobs on tv or seeing a girls body but whether its due to desensitization or erectile dysfunction or both I dont know. It worries me and then when I start reacting to the same sex its scary. I know you seem to think I have free will and if I want to be with my girlfriend be with her etc.. But I want to be genuinely straight and happy, not pretending. I dont know if I am pretending or not. My body is reacting to guys and that makes me think I am. Its like I was born with a certain quantity of opposite sex arousal and now its used up. The opposite sex arousal tank seems empty and I am left with same sex arousals I never knew I had, which I find horrible and disturbing. I am tortured with this. I can’t even believe its OCD no matter who tells me it is. As long as I am experiencing what I am experiencing there will always be major doubts. Do therapists just tell clients what they want to hear? I am afraid thats whats happened to me. Jonathan Hershfield September 29, 2013 at 8:14 pm - Reply >>>>I don’t enjoy it. I don’t want to do it but feel I have to see if it will make me more aroused than my straight fantasies. —Feeling you have to do something and actually having to do something are two different things. Many of my clients feel they have to wash their hands fifteen times in multiples of 5. Your compulsion is no less ritualistic and no more likely to produce results. >>>Trying not to figure it out seems like sweeping the problem under the carpet and hearing no evil, speaking no evil and seeing no evil. I fear that I’m gay and just have such a built up objection to it in my mind that I cant be one or it is suppressed so much I cant give myself permission to be one. (I dont want to be one) —Avoiding your discomfort with this fear of denial is what allows your OCD to assume power over you. If anything is being swept under the carpet, it’s the fact that you have a diagnosable and treatable mental health problem that you are afraid to address seriously. That’s why you are repeatedly writing on a blog comment thread instead of sitting in the office of an OCD specialist. >>>Also there are so many little things that could indicate me being gay. For example last night I watched some film called American Pie 2009 and there were really hot girls naked and I wasn’t trying or aything but I simply dont get aroused by that anymore. It wasnt a case of me being tense or anxious. I was relaxed and just observed that nothing was happening downstairs when I saw boobs etc.. —I don’t see how that’s evidence of homosexuality anywhere but in your mind. That’s like saying Iraq was hiding WMD’s because they couldn’t find any. >>>Then there was a scene at the end where the guy runs out of the house naked and you can see his butt and I felt a slight arousal and enlargening down there and then terror set in and stopped any further arousal. This is one of many many such scenarios that make me feel depressed and worried and convinced I’m gay 🙁 —Well, either you haven’t read part 3 of this blog, or you are committing to the cognitive distortion of disqualifying the positive (or both). >>>I have been getting gay dreams (not wet ones so far) but also have had some ones where I have been having sex with my mother (sick I know). Dunno what they mean. —They mean you have a brain and you spend a lot of time obsessing about sexual attraction. >>>I used to get very aroused by boobs on tv or seeing a girls body but whether its due to desensitization or erectile dysfunction or both I dont know. It worries me and then when I start reacting to the same sex its scary. I know you seem to think I have free will and if I want to be with my girlfriend be with her etc.. But I want to be genuinely straight and happy, not pretending. I dont know if I am pretending or not. My body is reacting to guys and that makes me think I am. Its like I was born with a certain quantity of opposite sex arousal and now its used up. The opposite sex arousal tank seems empty and I am left with same sex arousals I never knew I had, which I find horrible and disturbing. —What you are saying is that you are not willing to tolerate any amount of uncertainty, and this puts you at a severe disadvantage because uncertainty is the only reality. >>>>I am tortured with this. I can’t even believe its OCD no matter who tells me it is. As long as I am experiencing what I am experiencing there will always be major doubts. Do therapists just tell clients what they want to hear? I am afraid thats whats happened to me. —I can’t speak for other therapists. Personally, I call it like I see it, which often involves telling people things they DON’T want to hear. That doesn’t make me right. You are going to have to take the risk of treating this like OCD and possibly being wrong. The alternative to taking this risk is simply continuing what you have been doing, which appears only to keep making your situation worse. Trevor September 28, 2013 at 2:50 pm - Reply Dave.. think back just a little bit.. was your obsession and compulsion list something that built up over time? Common sense would tell you that this is HOCD, all forms of OCD have “doubt” attached to it. If I focus on not thinking about something and not feeling something will I think and feel something? .. YES. Did you ever if rarely have doubts in your past before your ocd?.. probably not. So are you over attending all these thoughts, YES , are they making you believe things that aren’t there YES.. same as that of a person who believes that they have bacteria on their hands.. they feel it.. see it.. the worry is real to them.. just as this is for you.. you should really take time in researching other forms of OCD as you will begin to find strong correlations to what you’re dealing with, because it’s in fact OCD.. I get groinal responses too, because I over attended the thought of it happening so much I’ve conditioned my body to respond to certain triggers. Trevor October 1, 2013 at 6:03 pm - Reply Hey Josh, is it possible that HOCD can do comparative thinking as a compulsion , to go back and forth between man and a woman to “check” if you feel the same way ? Is it possible that your mind will imagine scenerios with the same sex , like friends, family etc? These images make me sick , and I have a therapist .. but he seems to just want to talk about my past and bring up my family for some reason…rather than give me help or techniques in dealing with this. Jonathan Hershfield October 3, 2013 at 3:49 am - Reply This comparison/analysis is a very common mental ritual. You need to try to abandon it when you notice you’re doing it or discount it afterwards if it makes you feel reassured. Your therapist sounds like he is using a therapeutic technique that is ineffective for treating ocd. Trevor October 1, 2013 at 6:05 pm - Reply Sorry , I meant Jon.. don’t know why I wrote Josh. Trevor October 1, 2013 at 6:13 pm - Reply Or compulsions to imagine being with the same sex to see if you like it?.. I get anxiety everytime, but my brain won’t stop checking and checking over and over again. I feel as if it’s trying to condition me to feel or be gay. I know you can’t turn gay.. but in my head it makes me think that this is how it happens, that people DO turn gay, that ocd DOES rewrite your history and makes it hard to remember your past. I try to be “okay” with the thoughts.. but my mind naturally rejects them.. and continues to compulsively imagine scenerios either in bending or checking. Jonathan Hershfield October 3, 2013 at 3:50 am - Reply Yes, very common compulsions. Sounds like you have some good material for writing an exposure script, this idea that you are being turned gay by a sinister mind with its own agenda. But it also sounds like you need to see a therapist who knows how to treat ocd. Trevor October 1, 2013 at 6:16 pm - Reply I’ve always been attracted to women, always fantasized about women.. and always loved it. I would watch porn, I had multiple relationships… but just one day I ask myself “do they think you’re gay”? boom.. it all happened.. I’ve had this crap for over three years now. Trevor October 1, 2013 at 6:22 pm - Reply One last thing.. sorry Jon, When imagining a scenerio of the same sex , do other patients often push the boundary into ideas of a relationship , because the idea of that also makes me anxious and sad… I just want myself back.. I want women back in my life and the lust I had for them. Jonathan Hershfield October 3, 2013 at 3:52 am - Reply I’m not sure I understand the question, but I think you are asking if people with HOCD obsess about the idea of being in a gay relationship and not just the sexual aspects? Yes. Trevor October 1, 2013 at 6:29 pm - Reply One VERY last thing.. when I think or even talk about women , my mind tells me I’m wasting my time and lying to myself.. even though I find myself only attracted to women. Jonathan Hershfield October 3, 2013 at 3:54 am - Reply Sometimes I see a cute baby and think about how far it would go if I kicked it. I respond to it in my head with “Interesting…” and then usually say something like “Cute kid.” The mind says a lot of things. Ada October 7, 2013 at 8:51 pm - Reply I know you’ve gotten tons of messages like these, but I don’t know, I still feel like telling you my story, because I am really distressed over this. I am 15, and I only learned of this disorder recently, but the summer I turned 14, I believe my Purely Obsessional Compulsive Disorder began. Actually, scratch that. Looking back, I think it really started when I was little, around 8. I remember I was a lot more into religion back then, like it was a happy thing for me, thinking that when I died, I’d go to heaven, and that there was always someone (God) watching over me, yada yada. But then a thought popped into my head one day: “I hate God.” A random thought, but it put my young mind into terror. Like, what if that was how I really felt? Did I really hate God? I didn’t go to church, and I didn’t really pray, it was just this nice thought at the back of my head that there was a greater power that loved all things unconditionally. But that sudden sentence in my head had alarm bells ringing. I always repeated this mantra, “I love God, I hate the devil,” and I would just repeat it in the back of my head consistently. I don’t remember how long this lasted, because at some point it seemed to fade into the back of my head. Yes, sometimes the thought would return, and I would have an hour of consoling myself that it wasn’t true, but for the most part it was manageable. Fast-forward several years to the summer of 2012: my worst nightmare. It kind of began that June, actually. A sudden passing thought during class concerning my teacher’s breast (I’m a female). No, it didn’t arouse me; in fact I was repulsed and threw the thought away. But it persisted later that day at lunch. I Jonathan Hershfield October 9, 2013 at 5:49 pm - Reply Hi Ada, it looks like your comment got cut off in the middle somehow. In any case you, describe the symptoms of a form of OCD called “scrupulosity” quite well, which involves intrusive thoughts of doubt about religious convictions. Looks like you were about describe a triggering response you had to a thought about your teacher that started an obsession with sexual orientation. Both obsessions, the religious one and the sexual one, are really about a drive for certainty that you aren’t in denial. The key is being willing to accept uncertainty and resist doing compulsions to reassure yourself. Your example of repeating the mantra “I love God, I hate the Devil” is a good example of a compulsion. Nicky October 12, 2013 at 1:04 pm - Reply Hi, Dr. Hershfield! I’m 16 years old girl and I have a question.Can HOCD make me believe that I love someone I don’t want to. It all started 2 months ago. The question “What if you’re lesbian?” just came out of nowhere. I was just watching a video about sexual education and it all started. I was doubting, checking constantly. I was telling myself that I can’t be because I have a crush on a guy. There was a little pause. I would still get anxious if I was watching a show or a movie and there was someone who was homosexual. Then I freaked out again. I was completely sure I was gay. Then I started to feel sorry about a girl who came out earlier this year and then she started deny what she said. I don’t know if it was because of other people’s opinion but I felt sorry for her. I don’t like her as a person, but at this moment the thought: “What if you’re in love with her?” came in and has been following me for a month. Last week I wasn’t thinking about that because I was scarred of crushing on a friend of mine. Then it all started again after I saw a picture of her in Facebook and thought she looked nice. Every time she speaks in class and I don’t find her annoying i start to doubt even more. When I find her annoying, I don’t trust myself. There are moments in which it feels like I love her and they seem so real and I just can’t stand them. When I try to stop engaging in these thoughts I feel like I’ll start crushing on her. I don’t know anymore. And sometimes it feels like I don’t like the guy I used to crush on before. And it was strange because maybe one day before the thoughts of this girl came, I couldn’t wait to see him at school. When I saw him I was a little bit disappointed, because he didn’t give me much attention. I don’t know how I feel anymore. I always think about that, I have dreams about that and I hate it. She pops up in my mind all the time and it’s not nice at all. I sit and watch something romantic on tv and even if I’m paying attention to what’s going on on TV, I’ll remember about her. It sometimes feels like I want to be with her even if I don’t. I’m scarred that in reality I like her, but I’m just denying. I have some moments when I’d think “Ok, I do like her” and then I’ll be more calm but the thought stays and it feels real. I’m trying to reject the thought but it feels forced and like I don’t want to and it’s useless. I don’t know if this made any sense. What do you think about that? I don’t have enough money to visit a therapist so I’d be glad if you could tell me your opinion. Jonathan Hershfield October 14, 2013 at 3:40 am - Reply >>>>Hi, Dr. Hershfield! I’m 16 years old girl and I have a question.Can HOCD make me believe that I love someone I don’t want to. —Sure, but I also think this can happen just being a normal 16 year old girl. >>>>It all started 2 months ago. The question “What if you’re lesbian?” just came out of nowhere. I was just watching a video about sexual education and it all started. I was doubting, checking constantly. I was telling myself that I can’t be because I have a crush on a guy. There was a little pause. I would still get anxious if I was watching a show or a movie and there was someone who was homosexual. Then I freaked out again. I was completely sure I was gay. Then I started to feel sorry about a girl who came out earlier this year and then she started deny what she said. I don’t know if it was because of other people’s opinion but I felt sorry for her. I don’t like her as a person, but at this moment the thought: “What if you’re in love with her?” came in and has been following me for a month. Last week I wasn’t thinking about that because I was scarred of crushing on a friend of mine. Then it all started again after I saw a picture of her in Facebook and thought she looked nice. Every time she speaks in class and I don’t find her annoying i start to doubt even more. When I find her annoying, I don’t trust myself. There are moments in which it feels like I love her and they seem so real and I just can’t stand them. When I try to stop engaging in these thoughts I feel like I’ll start crushing on her. I don’t know anymore. And sometimes it feels like I don’t like the guy I used to crush on before. And it was strange because maybe one day before the thoughts of this girl came, I couldn’t wait to see him at school. When I saw him I was a little bit disappointed, because he didn’t give me much attention. —You’re overthinking it. We get all kinds of weird crushes when we’re teenagers and they flip on and off like switches. If you try to analyze them,. you end up obsessing about your identity. If you accept thoughts and feelings as you have them, and not take them so seriously, you will have a much easier time. If you accept the uncertainty inherent in crushing on a girl, that doesn’t have to mean you are a lesbian. It just means those are the thoughts and feelings you had at that time. So what? >>>>I don’t know how I feel anymore. I always think about that, I have dreams about that and I hate it. She pops up in my mind all the time and it’s not nice at all. I sit and watch something romantic on tv and even if I’m paying attention to what’s going on on TV, I’ll remember about her. It sometimes feels like I want to be with her even if I don’t. I’m scarred that in reality I like her, but I’m just denying. I have some moments when I’d think “Ok, I do like her” and then I’ll be more calm but the thought stays and it feels real. I’m trying to reject the thought but it feels forced and like I don’t want to and it’s useless. I don’t know if this made any sense. What do you think about that? I don’t have enough money to visit a therapist so I’d be glad if you could tell me your opinion. —I think you should let yourself have whatever thoughts about her you have and look at all of your attempts to make sense of it as compulsions that cause you unnecessary anxiety. Trevor October 13, 2013 at 1:29 am - Reply I have a question Jonathan.. Are compulsion a choice, because I feel like it’s extremely hard to control my compulsions ..like my mind automatically has to check, has to reassure (only leading with more doubt) then checking again, and again. My mind will compulsively think of men in circumstances to check , over and over , but I find I don’t even have control of the checking. Jonathan Hershfield October 14, 2013 at 3:55 am - Reply Checking may happen automatically. However, analyzing what you discover as a result of the checking is a voluntary behavior. Control what is controllable and let happen whatever is uncontrollable. Trevor October 13, 2013 at 4:12 pm - Reply I feel as if the mental compulsions then become the obsession , if that makes sense. Like the compulsions take place of the images that started it all. Jonathan Hershfield October 14, 2013 at 3:57 am - Reply This is an area where mindfulness, the act of observing you thoughts without judgment or action, can be useful. Trevor October 13, 2013 at 11:13 pm - Reply Lastly, what are your thoughts on mushrooms being an affective cure/treatment for OCD? Jonathan Hershfield October 14, 2013 at 4:01 am - Reply There’s a study of 9 patients suggesting the potential for the use of psilocybin in the reduction of ocd symptoms. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17196053 For now, outside of the lab, I think the notion is silly. CBT has been extensively researched and works well. Trevor October 14, 2013 at 2:21 pm - Reply Why would the notion be silly if it shows a 23/100% (which would suggest a complete remission) on such a very low dose? The only reason they seem to not continue the research is because of the legality of the substance, they potentially could have used a much higher dose. Jonathan Hershfield October 14, 2013 at 2:52 pm - Reply You asked my opinion about mushrooms, which outside of isolated psilocybin in a lab, are impossible to control and regulate dosage. Further, one study of a 9-person sample size provides hardly reliable information. If you got 9 people really drunk, they would score lower on the YBOCS as well, but it would not yet be advisable to drink as a treatment. I don’t know why there are no other wider or repeated samples. I imagine one day research will indicate a variety of potential medical treatments for ocd that will be safe and effective. Maybe psilocybin will be included in them. That would be good. Opiates appear to show some promise as well. But for now, taking mushrooms to treat ocd seems unwise to me and that is my opinion. The best researched and most effective treatment we have for OCD at the moment is cognitive behavioral therapy. Megan October 15, 2013 at 3:02 pm - Reply Hi Dr. Hershfield, I’m in severe distress. I’m a 24 y/o F with a PMH significant for OCD/anxiety. I have been obsessed about everything–my weight (ED), being engaged to my long-time boyfriend, health/diseases, grades-pretty much everything under the sun. Well, in March my bf (now fiancé) got really drunk and my bisexual friend (also F) happened to be here. Normally, kissing girls while under the influence would be something to attract guys. Well doing that in front of my boyfriend was really out of the ordinary, and somehow I had the gumption to engage in a full-blown threeway. I still feel very sleazy about this bc it is SO out of my character. Pretty much everything that can happen, happened, and I ended the event when I saw them together. This has given intense anxiety for the past half year because I have NEVER questioned my orientation. I always pursued relationships with guys, felt sexually attracted to guys. It never crossed my mind what dating a women would be like. I rarely watch pornography but occasionally I would view lesbian porn because I found it very taboo, sensual, and relatable (bc I have those parts). If anything, I was slightly curious when it came to f/f sex, but nothing more than, “I wonder what that’s like.” In fact, this was something I never would have sought out, and being that I did so while drunk has really shaken me up. Watching my bf enjoy this was arousing–I felt almost like an actress. But the actual lesbian sexual acts were not that arousing. I found it weird, unnatural, and I didn’t like it. Now when I think of it I find it repulsive. However, it bothers me that I had this experience bc now I know what it’s like, and even though I don’t feel gay or bi, I must be by virtue of what I did. This sickens me. ~I spend HOURS upon HOURS googling for info that says I can still be straight despite having done this. ~I’m constantly checking other females to see if I’m attracted or not, which is really making me anxious because if someone is good looking that must mean I’m attracted to them and that makes me nervous. ~I’m not sure how this defines me so I need to prove that I’m straight. ~I’m looking at pictures of naked women to make sure I don’t want to do that or I’m not aroused by it. ~When I try to accept bisexuality, I can’t, but then I’m reminded how plenty of straight girls probably would not have done this. The anxiety and checking are so invasive that I actually feel gay. That scares me even more. I then start to lose my attraction to my fiance which scares me as well. Even when I say that yes I’m straight, consciously checking and “swearing” off f/f experiences appears to give them so much power that it seems like I want them, but really I don’t! I hear these stories all the time that women leave their husbands after years of marriage to be with another woman. I hope that’s not me. I fear that happening and fear wanting to engage in such acts. I feel repulsed by this whole situation, but I can’t wrap my head around being straight based on actually doing this. At the very most, I worry that I won’t be fulfilled by just my fiance. I didn’t like the experience, found it gross, but I have experienced it and now being straight feels like a conscious choice rather than something natural like before. I want to go back to my hetero life before this when I didn’t worry about my orientation at all. Is it possible that I’m still straight after having done this? Does this make me gay/bi? I have nothing against the gay community whatsoever, I’m just worried about what this says about me. I just want the anxiety and the checking to stop; it gets so elevated and seems to get worse the more I do it. AHH! Thanks so much Dr. Hershfield!!!! Jonathan Hershfield October 16, 2013 at 5:25 am - Reply >>>>Hi Dr. Hershfield, I’m in severe distress. I’m a 24 y/o F with a PMH significant for OCD/anxiety. I have been obsessed about everything–my weight (ED), being engaged to my long-time boyfriend, health/diseases, grades-pretty much everything under the sun. Well, in March my bf (now fiancé) got really drunk and my bisexual friend (also F) happened to be here. Normally, kissing girls while under the influence would be something to attract guys. Well doing that in front of my boyfriend was really out of the ordinary, and somehow I had the gumption to engage in a full-blown threeway. I still feel very sleazy about this bc it is SO out of my character. Pretty much everything that can happen, happened, and I ended the event when I saw them together. This has given intense anxiety for the past half year because I have NEVER questioned my orientation. I always pursued relationships with guys, felt sexually attracted to guys. It never crossed my mind what dating a women would be like. —First you need to accept that what happened, happened. It’s meaning isn’t the issue. You are engaging in efforts to undo the event and this is distorting it to be something more significant than some drunk story in one chapter of your book of life. Further, it sounds like you have an extensive history of moderate to severe anxiety disorders, so you need to look at this obsession as an example of something that would occur anyway. If you didn’t obsess about the possible interpretations of that night, you’d likely be obsessing about something else and feel just as desperate. >>>I rarely watch pornography but occasionally I would view lesbian porn because I found it very taboo, sensual, and relatable (bc I have those parts). If anything, I was slightly curious when it came to f/f sex, but nothing more than, “I wonder what that’s like.” In fact, this was something I never would have sought out, and being that I did so while drunk has really shaken me up. Watching my bf enjoy this was arousing–I felt almost like an actress. But the actual lesbian sexual acts were not that arousing. I found it weird, unnatural, and I didn’t like it. Now when I think of it I find it repulsive. —Sounds like you are trying to explain it to me, which is a way of analyzing it to achieve a specific result of relieving discomfort — in other words, a compulsion. >>>However, it bothers me that I had this experience bc now I know what it’s like, and even though I don’t feel gay or bi, I must be by virtue of what I did. This sickens me. —You must be? That doesn’t compute to me. >>>>~I spend HOURS upon HOURS googling for info that says I can still be straight despite having done this. ~I’m constantly checking other females to see if I’m attracted or not, which is really making me anxious because if someone is good looking that must mean I’m attracted to them and that makes me nervous. ~I’m not sure how this defines me so I need to prove that I’m straight. ~I’m looking at pictures of naked women to make sure I don’t want to do that or I’m not aroused by it. ~When I try to accept bisexuality, I can’t, but then I’m reminded how plenty of straight girls probably would not have done this. —Everything above is everything you need to stop and everything that is fueling your OCD. You will not get better if you continue to do these things. >>>>The anxiety and checking are so invasive that I actually feel gay. That scares me even more. I then start to lose my attraction to my fiance which scares me as well. Even when I say that yes I’m straight, consciously checking and “swearing” off f/f experiences appears to give them so much power that it seems like I want them, but really I don’t! I hear these stories all the time that women leave their husbands after years of marriage to be with another woman. I hope that’s not me. I fear that happening and fear wanting to engage in such acts. —You hear stories ALL THE TIME? This is a magnification. You have heard some stories and that is irrelevant. >>>>I feel repulsed by this whole situation, but I can’t wrap my head around being straight based on actually doing this. At the very most, I worry that I won’t be fulfilled by just my fiance. I didn’t like the experience, found it gross, but I have experienced it and now being straight feels like a conscious choice rather than something natural like before. —These are common fear in HOCD and you can do exposure to them with an ocd specialist. >>>I want to go back to my hetero life before this when I didn’t worry about my orientation at all. —The language you use here implies you think you left a “hetero” life because of an experience you had. This idea of having, losing, trying to get back to some orientation is part of the OCD distorted thinking. >>>>Is it possible that I’m still straight after having done this? Does this make me gay/bi? I have nothing against the gay community whatsoever, I’m just worried about what this says about me. I just want the anxiety and the checking to stop; it gets so elevated and seems to get worse the more I do it. AHH! —As you might have noticed from the articles and the other comments I’ve replied to, you are not going to get me to answer a question bout an obsession that begins with “is it possible?” My recommendation is that you treat the ocd with an ocd specialist with cbt and ERP. Megan October 15, 2013 at 10:00 pm - Reply Oh I forgot to add–I do see a CBT who is trying to help me understand fluidity, not everything is black and white, etc. It’s just hard. In daily life I can’t say I’ve ever had crush on a girl or have felt attracted to one. Sure, some girls are really pretty but if anything I’m more envious than attracted, and any such attraction was never sexual. It was more like oh she looks nice, wish I had her hair, or skin, or personal trainer. I still don’t want to date a girl and I don’t want to repeat this experience. Sure a naked image of a man or woman will be arousing, and my OCD (if that’s what this is) will run wild to find the source of my arousal or prove that I’m not aroused. But even if a naked image of a women is arousing, I feel like I’ll either imagine that’s me or picture sex in general and being with a guy. But my mind is like noooo, you want to do something with her, and then it’s like nooo you don’t, but what if you? And boom…it starts. I want to feel in love and attracted to men again but it’s hard with all the checking. When I try to embrace bisexuality or gayness, I just can’t..it doesn’t feel right. But saying I’m straight would feel awesome except I have to account for what happened, so it just feels inaccurate. Then comes the googling, and it all gets worse from there. It makes me sad. Do you think I’m straight? I know that’s hard to say but the reassurance is in such high demand, and according to my CBT, counterproductive. Sorry for being so verbose! Thanks, Dr. Hershfield!!! Jonathan Hershfield October 16, 2013 at 5:28 am - Reply It sounds like your therapist is currently focusing on cognitive restructuring, which can be a useful tool. However, without doing Exposure w/ Response Prevention, it’s not going to be enough for treating your OCD. Does your therapist specialize in OCD? Your therapist is right about reassurance. The rest of your post here is a compulsion. Treat it like the enemy of mental health that it is. Megan October 15, 2013 at 10:05 pm - Reply Also, sorry, so sorry…my brain goes a mile per minute. But in my googling sprees I saw some sources or people say that once you do something like this, even while intoxicated, you are forever bisexual. In other words, you are what you do. That upsets me because one cigarette doesn’t make someone a smoker, but it makes that person someone who has smoked and had some sort of capacity to try it, whether or not they enjoyed it in the end. That scares me. If this is HOCD, this really is horrible. I wouldn’t wish this on anyone. Thanks, and I apologize for not consolidating!!! Jonathan Hershfield October 16, 2013 at 5:29 am - Reply You lost me at “in my googling sprees…” If you go on the internet looking for something to be upset about, you will always find it. megan October 16, 2013 at 1:01 pm - Reply That is so true! There’s such a wide body of info. At the root of all my wordiness (which I apologize for) I guess I want to stop having anxiety, and the checking, and feeling like this somehow made me less heterosexual. I don’t feel gay/bi, but does drunk experimentation (even if it felt really weird) make somesone gay/bi? I know there’s nothing wrong with that but I keep checking to understand what this says about my orientation. I did this therefore I am…but do I have to be type of thing. Thanks! Jonathan Hershfield October 16, 2013 at 4:01 pm - Reply >>>>That is so true! There’s such a wide body of info. At the root of all my wordiness (which I apologize for) I guess I want to stop having anxiety, and the checking, and feeling like this somehow made me less heterosexual. —-If you want to come to terms with or reduce the anxiety, you will have to stop the checking and accept the uncertainty surrounding exactly how heterosexual you are (presuming this is some sort of measurable thing). >>>>I don’t feel gay/bi, but does drunk experimentation (even if it felt really weird) make somesone gay/bi? —See my previous comment in which I said there is no way you can really expect me to answer this question. >>>>I know there’s nothing wrong with that but I keep checking to understand what this says about my orientation. I did this therefore I am…but do I have to be type of thing. —You have to stop treating this like a sexual issue and treat it like the ocd issue it is. Anon October 16, 2013 at 8:48 pm - Reply What does an hocd test entail? I’m worried I have hocd, but taking the test scares me incase I ‘fail it’ as such. Jonathan Hershfield October 18, 2013 at 5:15 pm - Reply Hmm, no idea. I have never heard of an HOCD test. There are a few ways of evaluating someone for a diagnosis of OCD, one of which is a series of questions about the presence of obsessions and compulsions called the Yale Brown Obsessive Compulsive Scale (YBOCS). Megan October 16, 2013 at 11:11 pm - Reply I’m so sory Dr, I wrote so much that I’ve mistaken your response for my own. Thanks for your help. Richard October 20, 2013 at 9:07 pm - Reply Dr.Hershfield I am a 20 years old guy.When i was about 5 or 6 years old i had some sexual contact with my older cousin, at the time i thought it was just a play, i didn’t know what i was doing. Years later i had depression due to this, and then i started worrying that i might be gay. Only had sexual relations with girls and fallen in love with girls. I spent my teenagers years obssessing about my sexuality, checking for body responses in my bad times, and i still do. In my mind i put myself in every kind of situation that involves gay sex to test me, and what scares me the most is the groinal response, and even erections especially when i read about sexual gay stories (again to test myself). I don’t read this stories for pleasure, i do it sometimes to test myself, and i can’t understand why do i get body responses of it. It doesn’t match my personality, and i can’t be happy or even myself when this happens. Even a girlfriend complained that she wasn’t doing nothing to me and i was with an erection just for being close to her. And this is why i can’t understand it, i’m always haunted by these thoughts and doubts, if my body wasn’t responding i could get over it, but that’s not the case. And i’m really afraid to be one of those cases, when a gay guy is with a girl just to hide his true nature. Please help me understand this, i feel like i wasted so much time of my life with this, i really don’t know what to think, it’s a big step for me even write it down. Thank you Jonathan Hershfield October 26, 2013 at 1:54 am - Reply Hi Richard, it sounds to me that you, like many men, have a high arousability to sexual content. All this means is you get erections even when the triggering content is not necessarily “your thing.” The average guy is going to have a groinal response to ANY sexual content, regardless of orientation. The degree of this groinal response varies, probably more for physiological reasons than psychological ones. In any case, the “testing” that you do is a compulsion that sends the message to your brain that it is important to continue obsessing over your orientation. You need to stop the testing and accept that your junk does what it does when it does it and this requires no analysis. As for the experience you had when you were a child, it is irrelevant. My recommendation is that you seek treatment from someone experienced working with OCD so you can construct a plan for doing exposure to your fear of being in denial and also be more mindfully acceptant of the groinal responses without attributing unnecessary meaning to them. HOCD_Recoverd October 21, 2013 at 6:52 pm - Reply Hello everyone! and forgive me for my bad english 🙂 I had a severe HOCD condition for 3 years. Very very happy to write that I an all over it. It is gone, just like that. Now how I did it: 1. you have to educate your self on the topic, belive me I have been all over the internet reading about this topic. 2. go out and be with people, never give up on people. being alone in you room will NOT help you in no way. 3. no one can help you, but yourself. Until you don’t get a “click” in your brain, that tells you that HOCd is not true, no one can help you. 4. you can and will overcome the compulsions and ugly thoughts and fears of “denial”, the groinal responses, the mental arousal feras ect ect…. 5. You need TIME, I strugled with it for 3 years on and off, before I got back to normality. P.S. to feel normality is sooo niceeee. That is about that. I got married a month ago and 10 days ago I became a father to my newborn son. two things i thought i will never have becasue I was afraid that I was gay. There is much much hope people, just dont give in and dont give up!!!! Life is very good now, but 3years ago if I would have read a post like this, I would have thought “yeah right, my case is never getting better”, but in the end all the patience payed off. Enyoing life now, with my wife and SON!!!! Jonathan Hershfield October 26, 2013 at 1:56 am - Reply Thanks for your positive message of overcoming HOCD by learning to stop doing compulsions! Congrats on your family! Marisa October 27, 2013 at 10:30 pm - Reply I’ve recently been feeling suddenly undeniably gay and incredibly uncomfortable about it (that’s how I found this site, I googled suddenly gay). I’m not sure if I have HOCD, but a lot of the symptoms and stories really describe how I feel. Until recently, I’ve never had any issues with anyone being homosexual, but I never knew how much I didn’t want to be gay until I started to seriously feel gay or something I’m confusing with being gay because, honestly, I feel sick. I keep wondering, is this how homosexuality feels, but I’m not feeling good about anything and I’m having grossly inappropriate and uncontrollable thoughts about any female that looks like a female, including family (which i absolutely hate…HATE). A large part of me knows the sick feelings aren’t homosexuality, but that still doesn’t mean I’m not gay. It just means I might be a sick pervert and gay. I think I could survive if I could at least do away with the sick perverted and intrusive thoughts. My entire way of thinking seems like it’s flipped, and now, I’m even questioning my past. I feel trapped and like something within myself is forcing me to be gay. A little history, I’m in my late 20s, and since I was about 13 (that’s when the acnce started and it’s been a long battle/ struggle with several physical issues since then) I’ve had serious issues with my physical appearance. The issues are so serious that I’ve never dated, dress to cover up, stay at home a lot and always feel uncomfortable in social situations (I can’t even handle anyone sitting next to me). In addition, I say horrendous things to myself on a daily basis, and around college I formed an obsession with looking at how perfect most other females look and how easy it is for them to look feminine. My eyes seem to be drawn to exposed female flesh like legs and cleavage even when I don’t want to look (normally, its about how beautiful the skin is). It makes me feel uncomfortable and super gay, and I’m sure it makes them feel uncomfortable as well, but I can’t seem to control it. Oddly enough, I’ve never had a crush on a female or even wanted to have sex with or date the women I look at (not consciously at least but something wants to question if this is true now), but surely the looking must mean something. Anyways, I may have developed a weak case of HOCD due to the staring or maybe I’m just in denial, but it took a side to my physical issues. So for years (off and on starting in college), I was on a repeat daily cycle (in the following order of dominance) of feeling ugly, looking at other seemingly perfect woman and sometimes wondering if I’m gay. It wasn’t a perfect cycle by any means (hated it back then), but I would definitely take that over feeling how I’ve been feeling for the past 2 months because the order has changed. Oh yeah, back in high school almost everyone thought I was gay probably because I never dated and I dressed in baggy oversized clothes. I suspect most of my family thinks I’m gay because I still haven’t dated. I did wonder for a short while back then due to all the accusations, but I felt like I wasn’t gay because I honestly never had any romantic inclinations towards females and secretly crushed on guys. Anyways, it didn’t make me angry and it still doesn’t because, objectively, I see why you would classify me as such, but it’s sure taking a toll on me now a days. About 4 months ago, I started taking a medication to regulate my hormones. I was concerned that I would experience crazy side affects because it’s suppose to reduce the affects of testosterone to my body. I’m not entirely sure what triggered it, but 2 months ago I woke up and was so sure I was gay. I felt physically ill and my whole behavior changed. I’ve never felt so depressed in my whole life…my whole life of feeling ugly…I never felt this down. I had no desire or drive to do anything. I would stay in bed too long ( i should have been getting ready for work) because mornings were the worse. I would tell myself I’m gay as soon as I contemplated opening my eyes. I felt sick to my stomach the whole time getting ready for work (had to potty from the anxiety but even that felt off). Home was no longer my salvation because I was saturated with these thoughts at home. It got to a point where I hated being at home and preferred work because I had to think of other things at work. I wasn’t eating like I normally did and I LOVE food. I was just off and didn’t want to exist and couldn’t see a better day. All day I would repeat the same phrase…I’m gay, I’m gay…I’m gay. Additionally, I started to look at both sexes differently. Any guys I liked or found cute suddenly I didn’t like or find cute any longer. I started to feel nervous and tight in my stomach when I saw any females (normally guys made me nervous not females) even if I consciously didn’t find the woman attractive. I stopped taking the medication (not sure if that was even the problem), but the harsh depression subsided after a week (thank goodness) but I’m still left feeling gay. Constantly telling myself I’m gay and viewing the sexes differently (though not as extreme as when I was depressed). It’s weird, it’s like there’s my conscious self that remembers how I felt and even knows how I consciously would perceive things, but there’s something else inside that says I’m gay, gives me anxiety when I see any feminine looking female, and gives me intrusive disgusting sexual thoughts about nearly any female (even family). I feel like i have no choice but to be gay even though I don’t want to be gay. Never the less, I feel like no one should deny their homosexuality because it’s not wrong and to truly be happy you should be who you really are, and the fact that I’m feeling this way most likely means I’m gay I suppose, but I just can’t align my past with my present thoughts. I went to a party recently (first social situation since this all started) and the staring and anxiety were out of control (even staring at the breasts of women I didn’t think were particularly pretty). I felt so gay, I felt like it was affirmation of my homosexuality. The thing is, I’m not aroused by the sights…it’s not sexual or desire based, it’s just something I can’t control or feel like I can’t control. I had to leave because I was so uncomfortable. Normally, I would be okay with not labeling my sexuality because I feel putting a label on myself would turn me in one direction, but something within myself is forcing this label. Most nights I decide that I’m just going to be gay but everyday the cycle seems to start over. I feel like this is never going to be over. Also, I have a serious fear that if I start a relationship with a guy now, I’ll end up realizing I’m gay after kissing him or come out later. Realistically, I don’t know if I have any other choice than to be gay right now due to the thoughts and feeling little attraction for the opposite sex. It’s not that I think it’s disgusting (homosexuality) it’s that I’ve never realistically been interested in it, and now I really don’t want it and I’m started to resent it because I feel like I’m being forced into it, but I feel like I have no choice. So, is it possible this is HOCD? Jonathan Hershfield October 29, 2013 at 4:44 am - Reply —-Hi Marisa, >>>>I’ve recently been feeling suddenly undeniably gay and incredibly uncomfortable about it —Since most discomfort comes from intolerance of uncertainty, it’s unlikely that something which makes you uncomfortable can also be undeniable. >>>>(that’s how I found this site, I googled suddenly gay). I’m not sure if I have HOCD, but a lot of the symptoms and stories really describe how I feel. Until recently, I’ve never had any issues with anyone being homosexual, but I never knew how much I didn’t want to be gay until I started to seriously feel gay or something I’m confusing with being gay because, honestly, I feel sick. I keep wondering, is this how homosexuality feels, but I’m not feeling good about anything and I’m having grossly inappropriate and uncontrollable thoughts about any female that looks like a female, including family (which i absolutely hate…HATE). A large part of me knows the sick feelings aren’t homosexuality, but that still doesn’t mean I’m not gay. It just means I might be a sick pervert and gay. I think I could survive if I could at least do away with the sick perverted and intrusive thoughts. My entire way of thinking seems like it’s flipped, and now, I’m even questioning my past. I feel trapped and like something within myself is forcing me to be gay. —-Obsessions are unwanted intrusive thoughts. In obsessive compulsive disorder, common sexual obsession involve content of other-orientation, incest, pedophilia or other feared attractions. People with OCD who suffer from sexual obsessions often describe their experience as feeling “forced” to thin about these subjects against their will. The book Imp of the Mind by Lee Baer describes this experience well, including treatment strategies. >>>>A little history, I’m in my late 20s, and since I was about 13 (that’s when the acnce started and it’s been a long battle/ struggle with several physical issues since then) I’ve had serious issues with my physical appearance. The issues are so serious that I’ve never dated, dress to cover up, stay at home a lot and always feel uncomfortable in social situations (I can’t even handle anyone sitting next to me). In addition, I say horrendous things to myself on a daily basis, and around college I formed an obsession with looking at how perfect most other females look and how easy it is for them to look feminine. My eyes seem to be drawn to exposed female flesh like legs and cleavage even when I don’t want to look (normally, its about how beautiful the skin is). It makes me feel uncomfortable and super gay, and I’m sure it makes them feel uncomfortable as well, but I can’t seem to control it. Oddly enough, I’ve never had a crush on a female or even wanted to have sex with or date the women I look at (not consciously at least but something wants to question if this is true now), but surely the looking must mean something. Anyways, I may have developed a weak case of HOCD due to the staring or maybe I’m just in denial, but it took a side to my physical issues. So for years (off and on starting in college), I was on a repeat daily cycle (in the following order of dominance) of feeling ugly, looking at other seemingly perfect woman and sometimes wondering if I’m gay. It wasn’t a perfect cycle by any means (hated it back then), but I would definitely take that over feeling how I’ve been feeling for the past 2 months because the order has changed. —-It sounds like you suffer from body dysmorphic disorder (BDD), an OCD-related issue in which you over-attend to negative thoughts about some aspect of your appearance. It’s not unusual in my experience for BDD sufferers to not only obsess about their own bodies, but aspects of other people’s bodies, and it make sense that this could be easily misconstrued for attraction (as opposed to envious obsession) and ultimately HOCD. >>>>Oh yeah, back in high school almost everyone thought I was gay probably because I never dated and I dressed in baggy oversized clothes. I suspect most of my family thinks I’m gay because I still haven’t dated. I did wonder for a short while back then due to all the accusations, but I felt like I wasn’t gay because I honestly never had any romantic inclinations towards females and secretly crushed on guys. Anyways, it didn’t make me angry and it still doesn’t because, objectively, I see why you would classify me as such, but it’s sure taking a toll on me now a days. —-Sexual identity has to do with what YOU think feels comfortable, not what you wear or what other people say. >>>>About 4 months ago, I started taking a medication to regulate my hormones. I was concerned that I would experience crazy side affects because it’s suppose to reduce the affects of testosterone to my body. I’m not entirely sure what triggered it, but 2 months ago I woke up and was so sure I was gay. I felt physically ill and my whole behavior changed. I’ve never felt so depressed in my whole life…my whole life of feeling ugly…I never felt this down. I had no desire or drive to do anything. I would stay in bed too long ( i should have been getting ready for work) because mornings were the worse. I would tell myself I’m gay as soon as I contemplated opening my eyes. I felt sick to my stomach the whole time getting ready for work (had to potty from the anxiety but even that felt off). Home was no longer my salvation because I was saturated with these thoughts at home. It got to a point where I hated being at home and preferred work because I had to think of other things at work. I wasn’t eating like I normally did and I LOVE food. I was just off and didn’t want to exist and couldn’t see a better day. All day I would repeat the same phrase…I’m gay, I’m gay…I’m gay. Additionally, I started to look at both sexes differently. Any guys I liked or found cute suddenly I didn’t like or find cute any longer. I started to feel nervous and tight in my stomach when I saw any females (normally guys made me nervous not females) even if I consciously didn’t find the woman attractive. —-Hormone-regulating medications seem to sometimes trigger panic disorder in susceptible people (i.e. people prone to obsessing) so this may be a factor. Waking up telling yourself something is true doesn’t provide any info on what is actually true. I’ve seen plenty of hypochondria sufferers wake up telling themselves they have cancer or Harm OC sufferers tell themselves they will harm someone that day. It’s meaningless. >>>>I stopped taking the medication (not sure if that was even the problem), but the harsh depression subsided after a week (thank goodness) but I’m still left feeling gay. Constantly telling myself I’m gay and viewing the sexes differently (though not as extreme as when I was depressed). It’s weird, it’s like there’s my conscious self that remembers how I felt and even knows how I consciously would perceive things, but there’s something else inside that says I’m gay, gives me anxiety when I see any feminine looking female, and gives me intrusive disgusting sexual thoughts about nearly any female (even family). I feel like i have no choice but to be gay even though I don’t want to be gay. —-Sounds like an obsession to me. >>>>Never the less, I feel like no one should deny their homosexuality because it’s not wrong and to truly be happy you should be who you really are, and the fact that I’m feeling this way most likely means I’m gay I suppose, but I just can’t align my past with my present thoughts. I went to a party recently (first social situation since this all started) and the staring and anxiety were out of control (even staring at the breasts of women I didn’t think were particularly pretty). I felt so gay, I felt like it was affirmation of my homosexuality. The thing is, I’m not aroused by the sights…it’s not sexual or desire based, it’s just something I can’t control or feel like I can’t control. I had to leave because I was so uncomfortable. —-Sounds like checking compulsions and mental review. Obsessive concern with staring at people’s private or sexual parts (i.e.breasts) is a common OCD symptom. >>>>Normally, I would be okay with not labeling my sexuality because I feel putting a label on myself would turn me in one direction, but something within myself is forcing this label. Most nights I decide that I’m just going to be gay but everyday the cycle seems to start over. I feel like this is never going to be over. Also, I have a serious fear that if I start a relationship with a guy now, I’ll end up realizing I’m gay after kissing him or come out later. Realistically, I don’t know if I have any other choice than to be gay right now due to the thoughts and feeling little attraction for the opposite sex. It’s not that I think it’s disgusting (homosexuality) it’s that I’ve never realistically been interested in it, and now I really don’t want it and I’m started to resent it because I feel like I’m being forced into it, but I feel like I have no choice. —-This idea of yours hinges on the distorted belief that simply thinking something and agreeing with it automatically makes you that thing. You can say you are gay and believe that makes you gay, but unless you are willing and interested in pursuing a sexual and romantic relationship with a member of the same sex, you might as well be calling yourself a cuisinart. >>>>So, is it possible this is HOCD? —-I can’t diagnose you via a blog post, but you describe several symptoms of BDD and OCD and appear to be struggling with obsessions and compulsions, so my recommendation is to see a therapist who specializes in CBT for OCD and related disorders. Marisa November 1, 2013 at 4:34 am - Reply Thank you very much for the reply. Writing and reading what I wrote was very therapeutic as I’ve never “said” it all out loud. I’m sure you’re right about needing professional help. Hopefully, I will take that step soon because it’s a pity going through life feeling like this. It’s silly, really, like I’m the worst and ugliest person in the world when I know it couldn’t be further from the truth. I just can’t feel what I know. Bad behavior is hard to break. I really hope everyone makes it through this feeling much better some how. Marisa November 10, 2013 at 1:49 am - Reply Hello, I didn’t think i would have to return but here I am. I’ve been having a rough couple of days, and I just had a dream that may be telling. I dreamed that they were adding new people to my office and I was talking to all of the people. One of the ladies proclaimed that she’s gay and she likes ladies of a certain race. When I woke up, I found a lot of similarities between what the lady looked like and how I view myself. The major difference was that she was of a different race. Now, I’m thinking that my mind is trying to tell me that I have always been gay and I should just accept it. The lady in the dream seemed happy. Maybe I’ll be happy if i just accept this as my truth. Wow, I don’t even know why I’m sharing. I don’t think anything can help me at this point. It’s like I have no other path. Professional help or I should just accept my fate? Jonathan Hershfield November 13, 2013 at 6:27 am - Reply >>>Hello, I didn’t think i would have to return but here I am. I’ve been having a rough couple of days, and I just had a dream that may be telling. —Not possible. Dreams aren’t telling. >>>>I dreamed that they were adding new people to my office and I was talking to all of the people. One of the ladies proclaimed that she’s gay and she likes ladies of a certain race. When I woke up, I found a lot of similarities between what the lady looked like and how I view myself. The major difference was that she was of a different race. Now, I’m thinking that my mind is trying to tell me that I have always been gay and I should just accept it. The lady in the dream seemed happy. Maybe I’ll be happy if i just accept this as my truth. —If minds tried to tell us things and there was a reason to take that seriously, then maybe you’d be on to something. But thoughts are thoughts. Your OCD wants you to think you are cracking some code, but really you are just over-responding to your thoughts. >>>Wow, I don’t even know why I’m sharing. I don’t think anything can help me at this point. It’s like I have no other path. Professional help or I should just accept my fate? —Split the difference and accept that your fate is to get professional help for your OCD. Marisa November 17, 2013 at 5:43 am Thanks for the reply. I was desperate when I posted that comment, probably all of the comments. I’m in the process of finding a therapist to help me with all of this, but I’m confident I’m just going to be labeled as a lesbian, but maybe he or she can help me come to terms with it. I kind of have to see things for myself to be at peace, and I feel like someone’s cursed me with all of this so maybe approaching it differently will help. A little annoying part about my current daily life: I’m hypersensitive to all things female, especially pretty women. I get anxiety (feels uncomfortable) as soon as I look at a woman, but my eyes seem drawn to them like I’m checking out every woman. It’s not even the same when I watch tv. I watch shows that I’ve been watching forever and now I obsess over the female leads looks, never did before. I keep wondering if this is how it feels to be gay…is that what all of this is? I suspect it’s not. I feel like a different person, and it all seems irreversible. I feel like I’ll never have peace. Lately, I’ve been saying I can’t wait until I die, so it’s all over. How crazy is that? I’ve been letting stupid issues seriously affect me since I was 13, but I’ve never spoken like that. I have no plans to commit suicide (love my family too much) but I’ve pretty much surrendered to my unhappiness. It’s not even necessarily about being gay, it’s about not having peace or knowing who I am anymore. I question everything, how I talk, how I dance, my mannerisms, how I look, how I want to look, what I think, how I feel…everything. I’m trying to truly accept that this is my homosexuality but nothing feels good about it. It’s pretty much taken over my mind. I can barely focus on my work, and it seems like everyone and everything is gay now. I read about the insanity man, the chick from top gun, the iron chef woman, and I get anxiety. I wonder If I’m like them. I never reacted like that in the past. It’s such a narrow minded way of thinking, like all gay people are the same. I know full well they are not, but I’ve been so simple minded lately, which is another thing I hate. It’s stupid to google for gay test…I know that there’s no test on the net I could take that could tell me the honest truth, but I’ve been so desperate. I’m hoping to find a therapist that I can at least talk to, but I’m not prepared to just be written off as gay, but I’m thinking a good therapist would never do that. The client should come to these realizations imo. A little voice in my head just said, stop typing all of this…you’re just gay. And I replied…I know. What i don’t know is why I’m going through all of this when I’m trying to accept it. Sometimes, though, I feel so sad when I say it..Like I’m gay..Really? So maybe I’m not truly accepting it. Maybe I’m in the denial phase. I learned about HOCD from googling Suddenly Gay. But there seems to be a fine line between HOCD and denial. How can I tell the difference when I don’t know who I am anymore? Should I be trying to tell the difference? I think I need to just stop thinking about it altogether but it seems impossible. Anyways, thanks for your help and this blog. This has been a wonderful outlet until I find a therapist. Jonathan Hershfield November 27, 2013 at 4:49 am Marisa, you might consider that all of this “I’m confident I’ll be told I’m gay” and “I’m trying to truly accept that this is my homosexuality” represent compulsive efforts to feel certain of something, even when it is the thing you don’t want. You describe a lot of common reactions and behaviors that I typically see in OCD sufferers who obsess about their sexual orientation. You say there is a fine line between HOCD and denial, but I disagree with this because one is OCD and the other is psychobabble nonsense. Marisa November 28, 2013 at 6:28 am OCD is not similar to psychobabble nonsense? 🙂 Seriously, thank you for responding again. I think I have calmed down a bit. I realize that there’s not much I can do about my sexuality. However, is there anything I can do about the uncomfortable intrusive thoughts? I feel like a creepy homosexual. Why do I react so differently to women I’ve been around for years or women I’ve watched on tv or seen in movies several times? I just saw the Little Mermaid in an ad on tv, and I zoomed in on her purple bra top for a moment…how creepy is that? I’ve never done that before, never even considered doing it and I’ve watched The Little Mermaid several times. I believe that’s what I hate the most, and it makes me not like myself (which is a real problem). Is this why ERP and CBT are recommended for OCD? Do I have to condition myself to not react like that or not care about the thoughts? Aside from that, I’ve been feeling like I act and look like a man lately. This seems to be common, though. Will this ever end? I feel like this is my new norm. Jonathan Hershfield November 28, 2013 at 7:31 pm You seem to be suggesting that you know what the real problem is and I am inclined to agree. The real problem is that you keep judging yourself for whatever experience you happen to be having instead of just accepting things as they are in the moment. This may mean accepting the presence of some uncomfortable thoughts and feelings instead of putting effort into trying to define them. Incidentally, my kids are watching The Little Mermaid in the background as I write this (seriously). The purple bra top is totally hawt. Marisa December 1, 2013 at 2:32 am I think I understand. I’m trying to relax. During this whole ordeal, I’ve had a bad habit of thinking…is this what gay people do or no straight person thinks this, but it doesn’t matter because I don’t know what the next person thinks. I still think I have a ways to go to feeling comfortable but I’m feeling a little better than I was. P.S. Yep, totally hawt. Creepy or not creepy, it doesn’t matter, right? Jonathan Hershfield December 1, 2013 at 4:51 pm Good insight – comparing your thought process to the unknowable thought process of others is a compulsion that only ever results in more doubt and fear. Other people are other people and what goes on in their minds is irrelevant. And creepy or not creepy is for you to decide. In any case, if it is enjoyable, it should be enjoyed in that moment. Dave November 2, 2013 at 12:47 am - Reply I think I am getting attractions for the same sex and it freaks me out. I don’t want to have sex with a guy or date one but my body seems to react sexually. Either this is my mind playing tricks or I’m gay. Is the torment in my mind denial/suppression rather than ocd? I worry I may have assumed I was straight growing up as a teen and formed that identity on an untruth (unknowingly) was innocent or naive to not knowing about being gay and came as a shock and devastating blow that I hate it and dont want to accept the reality. I was reading that post from a guy above who said that the ocd sufferer has to feel that ‘click’ in his/her mind to realize that this is ocd and not an orientation issue. Well I have never felt that click. It always feels like I may have ocd, or I am gay with acceptance issues, or have ocd in other areas but genuinely gay aswell. Also when I fly on planes lately I cant get the thought of the plane suddenly exploding in mid air and cant get the sensation or anticipation of it happening out of my head. When I was a 8 year old I think I had the sensorometer ocd where I was very aware of my breathing and was taking deep breaths all thetime feling that I was out of breath and needed a big inhale. What worries me is that I know by writing the above that I am trying to persuade you that I have ocd and also to reassure myself. This makes me think its denial and wanting to have ocd to not face the truth. Also I have a theory that I am obsessive about my orientation but that still doesn’t mean Im not gay. Again I am sorry for posting and I feel like punching myself in the face. Jonathan Hershfield November 4, 2013 at 6:26 pm - Reply >>>>>I think I am getting attractions for the same sex and it freaks me out. I don’t want to have sex with a guy or date one but my body seems to react sexually. Either this is my mind playing tricks or I’m gay. Is the torment in my mind denial/suppression rather than ocd? —-Since it’s normal to get attractions, impulses and urges that are inconsistent with our sense of identity, the problem would seem to be with the way you are responding to these “attractions” and not with their mere existence. >>>>I worry I may have assumed I was straight growing up as a teen and formed that identity on an untruth (unknowingly) was innocent or naive to not knowing about being gay and came as a shock and devastating blow that I hate it and dont want to accept the reality. —Sounds like good material for an exposure script. >>>>I was reading that post from a guy above who said that the ocd sufferer has to feel that ‘click’ in his/her mind to realize that this is ocd and not an orientation issue. Well I have never felt that click. It always feels like I may have ocd, or I am gay with acceptance issues, or have ocd in other areas but genuinely gay aswell. Also when I fly on planes lately I cant get the thought of the plane suddenly exploding in mid air and cant get the sensation or anticipation of it happening out of my head. When I was a 8 year old I think I had the sensorometer ocd where I was very aware of my breathing and was taking deep breaths all thetime feling that I was out of breath and needed a big inhale. —These three things all sound like the same problem, an intolerance of uncertainty. >>>What worries me is that I know by writing the above that I am trying to persuade you that I have ocd and also to reassure myself. This makes me think its denial and wanting to have ocd to not face the truth. —Frustrating, I’m sure. You do compulsions which make you feel like you’re in denial which makes you want to do compulsions, which… Logic would dictate that the only way out is to stop doing compulsions and accept the possibility that you could be in denial or may not be and stop trying to figure it out. >>>Also I have a theory that I am obsessive about my orientation but that still doesn’t mean Im not gay. Again I am sorry for posting and I feel like punching myself in the face. —A person who obsesses that their hands are dirty is not necessarily clean either, but washing compulsively isn’t going to work. The point is that rituals don’t produce results. Dave November 2, 2013 at 11:09 pm - Reply Really sorry but just one more thing. When I dont feel that aroused when masturbating to girls it worries me then I check my reaction by masturbating to guys doing and imagining things I fear but I sometimes get more aroused and have a better feeling orgasm as if its more arousing or thrilling to straight fantasies. Maybe its taboo or is it because Im gay and my body only gets a kick out of gay fantasies? I never want to do that stuff but it seems like my body likes it. 🙁 Also I worry that I act gay. I act sometimes like a sterotypical gay like that babysitter that Rachel and Ross got in the tv show Friends. I also have a feminie finger ratio. I just cant understand how my body can get more aroused to gay fantasies than girls if I am straight??? I mean the stright stuff used to arouse me alot years ago all through my teens but its like my brain/body doesnt get a kick out of it anymore. I am really down after masturbating to guy images and getting a good feeling orgasm. I feel sick and just want to crawl up and die. I dont see anyone else have this happen to them who have ocd. Is it likely Im just gay and resisting accepting it? Really sorry for all the questions. Thanks Dave Jonathan Hershfield November 4, 2013 at 6:40 pm - Reply >>>>Really sorry but just one more thing. When I dont feel that aroused when masturbating to girls it worries me then I check my reaction by masturbating to guys doing and imagining things I fear but I sometimes get more aroused and have a better feeling orgasm as if its more arousing or thrilling to straight fantasies. Maybe its taboo or is it because Im gay and my body only gets a kick out of gay fantasies? I never want to do that stuff but it seems like my body likes it. —-Stop checking. If you want to masturbate to gay porn because you enjoy it, then do it because you enjoy it. If you want to do it because you want to check, don’t. >>>Also I worry that I act gay. I act sometimes like a sterotypical gay like that babysitter that Rachel and Ross got in the tv show Friends. I also have a feminie finger ratio. —Finger ratio theory is silly. >>>>I just cant understand how my body can get more aroused to gay fantasies than girls if I am straight??? I mean the stright stuff used to arouse me alot years ago all through my teens but its like my brain/body doesnt get a kick out of it anymore. I am really down after masturbating to guy images and getting a good feeling orgasm. I feel sick and just want to crawl up and die. I dont see anyone else have this happen to them who have ocd. Is it likely Im just gay and resisting accepting it? —Dave, I have no idea. Your problem is definitely not going to be solved by compulsively seeking reassurance on a blog and by doing checking rituals. You need to work with a therapist. The problem is not about gay or straight. It’s about your false belief that compulsions will give you certainty. Dave November 4, 2013 at 10:45 pm - Reply Thanks for te reply but your last comment is spiking me badly. ”—Dave, I have no idea. Your problem is definitely not going to be solved by compulsively seeking reassurance on a blog and by doing checking rituals. You need to work with a therapist. The problem is not about gay or straight. It’s about your false belief that compulsions will give you certainty.” I know it sounds crazy but I think I would rather live with this nightmare of checking etc than knowing for sure Im gay. I would rather die nearly or live like a monk because its not fair, I formed my sexual identity from age 14 to 25 and was happy with it and enjoyed girls now from age 25 I feel like crap. I dont want to be gay or do those things and feel as if the person I thought I was growing up was fake. I have a girlfriend and I worry I have wasted her time and still am. It probably sounds like I am emotionally blackmailing you to tell me what I want to hear but I dont want to find out ‘the truth’ if thats what it is. Id rather live in 1% of hope than none at all. Jonathan Hershfield November 5, 2013 at 4:44 am - Reply You are missing the point. You keep doing compulsions thinking it will prove you are straight or gay or straight or gay or straight. It doesn’t work. Accepting uncertainty doesn’t mean accepting that you’re gay. It means stopping compulsions. Stopping compulsions means accepting that when you feel discomfort or fear, that is not a reason to do compulsions because compulsions don’t work. You say you would rather live with the nightmare of checking than know for sure that you’re gay. I am saying you won’t know for sure whether you do compulsions or not. Compulsions just keep you a slave to your OCD. It provides nothing of value regarding your orientation. patriciacatherinelo November 12, 2013 at 8:48 am - Reply hi again, I will try to keep this short. one of my best friends is awesome. shes pretty, cool funny etc. I like her as a friend. but a thought came into my head ” what would you say if she asked you out?”. I wish I could say I would say no, but that feels like im lying to myself, so if I think id say yes, I cant picture myself dating a girl. I obviously have hocd, and its like I know im straight, I just keep worrying I like her. I don’t want to date her, I just keep thinking Oh you like her. its so hard to say no u don’t like her, because I do as a friend. please help, I don’t want to be gay or bi, but why do I keep thinkning IDK what id say if she asked me out? Stressed, cant sleep… Thanks so much! Jonathan Hershfield November 13, 2013 at 6:33 am - Reply You’re doing a compulsion I sometimes call “scenario bending” — You take an obsession, consider a hypothetical scenario, then test yourself to see what reaction you could or would have to that scenario. It’s a trap. If you get a sense that you know the right reaction, it’s self-reassurance, a compulsion. If you decide you’d respond the wrong way to the hypothetical situation, you get freaked out and go to get reassurance (like posting a blog comment) to self-soothe. If you decide you don’t know the answer, you just end up doing more mental review to figure out why. Try to remember that the thing you are obsessing about hasn’t happened, so any time spent on your feared future reaction to it is wasted time. Stop trying to figure out if you “like” her and enjoy the friendship as it is, in the present. Dave November 12, 2013 at 9:53 pm - Reply Jon please forgive me for the posts but I genuinely am really in a bad way here. I am really not sure this is ocd at all. Its costant arousals to guys. e.g I was watching a movie and there was a sex scene and the girls boobs didnt arouse me then when she pulled off his shirt I felt a strong excitement feeling down there but it scared me. I was on facebook earlier and I saw a very innocent picture of a guy without a shirt and again I felt this surge of excitement combined with fear . These arousals cant be groinals surely??? My reaction to women is zero. Even porn that used to highly arouse me does almost nothing. I was reading empty closets and found this post by a guy unsure of his sexuality. He had tried to have sex with guys and couldnt perform. A guy replied to him: Hi, I would suggest breaking this into a new thread as it will probably get more views and more responses that way. I can do that if you like. To address your question: There are two possibilities I see. And what it hinges on is what you feel when you are sexually intimate with him. If you’re genuinely excited and aroused and enjoying what’s going on… but you sort of feel a “wall” come up that is preventing you from bottoming for him or topping him, then it’s most likely a psychological block you have (i.e., a message playing, perhaps deep in your unconscious, that says “As long as I am not penetrated by /penetrate another man, I’m not gay”) and it’s a form of denial. If, on the other hand, you’re sort of going through the motions, never aroused when he’s performing oral on you, or you on him, and it’s not exciting and keeping you interested… then you’re probably straight. If you’re genuinely enjoying sex with women, then it’s clear you’re not gay. Perhaps you’re bi. But it’s clear that there’s some sort of psychological blockage going on as well, so the more you explore your feelings, the easier it will be to figure that out.” That post is freaking me out but making sense to me because anythime I get these arousals like I described above I try to masturbate to them but sometimes struggle but feel that its maybe a mental block like the guy was saying above and that its denial. What makes it worse is that I do feel like Im going through the motions with my girlfriend. Im at breaking point here. Really. I have seen a very good ocd specialist before and he said I was straight but I just cant see it. I have so many things happening to me and I feeel I may have been born gay but never allowed myself to think gay thoughts. I would book an appointment only the ocd treatment I had a couple of years ago cleaned me out and things seem to be getting worse! Im really scared, and resigned to being gay. I feel sick. I dont want to be gay, but i have heard many gays say that. I would be so greatful if you could help in any way and give me some insight because I feel so lost and scared. I feel like I cant help myself and worry that the ocd treatment didnt help because i was gay. Jonathan Hershfield November 13, 2013 at 6:37 am - Reply Dave, you’re posting a post from a blog on a post from a blog. You need to be seeing a therapist. You said you saw a “very good ocd specialist” but not for how long, not whether you did the ERP, and not why you stopped and are no longer seeing an ocd specialist. Why were you reading the blog that you got this quote from in the first place? ERP or compulsive reassurance seeking? As I have said before, until you let go of the distorted idea that your checking and testing compulsions will produce results, you will remain stuck on this obsession. Dave November 13, 2013 at 12:05 pm - Reply Hi Jon. I wont name the therapist but you have heard of him. I had weekly sessions for a year, then had a year off and then saw his assistant therapist for another year. We did some ERP and I found it diffficult but did the homework I was given.I read coming out stories, and looked at photos which spiked me badly. I stopped simply because I have a very low paid job and couldnt afford it anymore. While I felt better after I never at any time was convinced I was straight and that this was all ocd. It still feels like I am a late realizer (age 25 at the time) and that while I have an obsessional personailty I am really believing that I am now simply obsessing over the truth and desperately hoping its not true. But right now I feel resigned to my fate. I have lost confidence in myself and have lost confidence that I can be helped because nobody can make me straight if I was indeed born gay. I feel alone, like I’m drowning but nobody can help me. I was reading the blog because I have been thinking non stop about how I have only realized Im gay later in life and wanted to see if that was common or probable. Looks like it is common enough. I know you will say thats a compulsion researching but when a typical gay guy realizes he’s gay at age 25 it can be a painful thing for him and he will panic and fret and act compulsively research too, maybe reading tons of coming out stories, checking, but he doesn’t have ocd. I am so deep into this thing, I have this doubt 6 yrs now and keep hoping that by confronting my fears and doing exactly what Im afraid of it will go away but it doesnt. My past is not crystal clear either. Pre this doubt I believed I was straight. All my teenage years I masturbated about girls (only once about a guy out of 1000’s of times), and got excited by sex scenes on tv involving girls. I tried a couple of times to have sex age 20/21 but couldnt perform (long story-possible med problem) and didnt feel excited the way a normal guy does. I was called gay when I was 12 when I moved to a new school, so maybe there was something about me. I was having arousal problems even during masturbation before the gay fears hit. My sex drive had plummeted from age 21 to 25 and had problems even getting aroused to my straight fantasies which always worked before. Thats when I was seeing doctors about my ED and wondering what the cause was. Thats when the gay fears hit me like a train. I tested to a gay fantasy and got more aroused instantly but never 100% hard like before but felt excitement that had been missing. I nearly cried and panicked and have been in hell since. I still cant get 100% hard erections like before even with gay thoughts/porn and I am trying to make it hard just so I know that I am not stopping it happening because I dont want to be gay. Is it possible that I have severe ocd and have ‘poor insight’? I really am believing I’m gay now and that theres no hope. I just dont see any other explanation for the constant daily groinals/arousals to hamless everyday male images and nothing to girls. I am not testing its just my observation. The arousals happen when getting on with my life. They are unwanted arousals (as if that makes a difference!) Is it possible that I had arousal to women but it simply wore off because I was gay all along? Gay thoughts seem to arouse me now. I have a lovely girlfriend but feel I will have to leave her and tell her the truth and she will be heartbroken as will I. I can perform ok with her but always feel as if I should be more excited than I am and keep thinking I am unfulfilled and that if I had sex with a guy it would be so much better (but I dont want that to be true). I want to get better but am fearing that maybe ocd treatment is more damaging in that maybe its keeping me stuck trying to not accept the truth- like reparative therapy in a way. I have always been a bit of a health worrier all through my teens and adult life, and have at times really feared I had this disease or that disease and gone to the doctor but never was a typical ocd guy counting or washing his hands or anything like that. I really miss looking at a picture of a hot girl and feeling very aroused like this urge to have sex with her. Now it has flipped over to the gay side but I dont want to act on it. Then again I heard a gay guy say that he said he would never act on it and now he is a full blown gay having sex with many men. I’m so sorry Jon for being a complete pain but I am desperate and frightened. I feel this need to fully explain myself so you will see whats happening. I am thinking about this everyday for 6 yrs. Also there seems to be much scientific university credibility about the finger ratio thing, saying people are born gay and you can see it in their fingers. I happen to have a feminine/gay pattern. Its hard to put it down to pseudoscience. Jonathan Hershfield November 15, 2013 at 5:09 pm - Reply Hi Dave, I think your assessment of severe OCD with poor insight is probably the best fit. I would look at your fear of it NOT being OCD as something to target in your ERP work. If it isn’t possible to either return to treatment with your previous ocd therapist or find someone locally who treats ocd (maybe ocduk.org has some resources?), then you will otherwise have to use the tools you have already learned to do the ERP. Jonathan Grayson’s book might be useful. If your goal is to be “convinced” then you are guaranteed to fail. If your goal is to accept uncertainty, stop doing compulsions, and commit to the lifestyle that includes investing in your relationship with your girlfriend, then this is an achievable goal. If you decide you don’t want to be with your girlfriend and want to be with a man, then you can make that decision, but it won’t be any more or less likely to happen from constant checking/ritualizing. THAT is what is keeping you enslaved. As for finger ratio, some studies have shown index-to-ring finger ratio is affected by testosterone and other hormone balances in the womb and may correlate to a person’s sexual preferences (i.e. preferring more masculine or feminine traits in sexual partners). The correlation was disputed in Behavioral Neuroscience in 2010 when a meta-analysis with a much higher sample size showed no significant difference in straight-vs-gay men. Your focusing on the length of your fingers is a way of avoiding focusing on your OCD. If your concern is that treating the OCD isn’t the way to go, then see a specialist in sexuality. It still doesn’t justify the compulsive testing behaviors, which only fuel the obsessive doubt and anxiety and provides no useful information about the lifestyle you actually want to pursue or the identity you want to associate with. Lily November 18, 2013 at 7:07 pm - Reply Hi, I’m 15 and it started about a month or so ago when I watched a video of a girl talking about ‘coming out’. I am very easily influenced so immediately I started questioning my sexuality. I’d never had this though that I might be a lesbian before and even writing this feels so foreign to me, yet I still think about it all the time. I keep imagining two different scenarios: One is where I have a boyfriend and the other is having a girlfriend, and I keep trying to figure out which one I feel better about. On some days I’m straight and other days I can’t stop doubting myself. In school most of the people I talk to are boys because they seem to accept me a lot better than girls and don’t judge me as harshly, so I think that also has an effect. I keep telling myself I’m not a lesbian, and the worrying, the hole in my stomach is disturbing my school work and my life in general. I am not attracted to anyone in school not boys and not girls, and also my sexual drive has gone severely down (I used to want to have sex like any other teenager, but not anymore) and I am really worried that something is wrong with me… I literally cannot spend 5 minutes without obsessing over my sexuality. I also feel that I am changing because of the girls in my school just to fit in (I am the only foreign person in my school, I moved countries so making friends is quite tough) As well, every time I see a picture of a girl, I get so worried that I am a lesbian that my heart just goes crazy and I almost have panic attacks! I’ve told my mom and my closest friends about these thoughts and they said that whatever my sexuality is, they will accept me, so I’m not worried about how other people would see me. I’ve always liked boys, and I’ve had a “first love” but now it seems impossible for me to fall in love or even have a crush on anybody. A few nights ago I couldn’t stop crying because I felt like I didn’t know myself anymore.. I am so confused and distracted and I just don’t know what to do…. Jonathan Hershfield November 27, 2013 at 5:09 am - Reply >>>>Hi, I’m 15 and it started about a month or so ago when I watched a video of a girl talking about ‘coming out’. I am very easily influenced so immediately I started questioning my sexuality. I’d never had this though that I might be a lesbian before and even writing this feels so foreign to me, yet I still think about it all the time. —Hi Lily, many people get obsessions triggered by seeing a video that addresses a complex topic. >>>>I keep imagining two different scenarios: One is where I have a boyfriend and the other is having a girlfriend, and I keep trying to figure out which one I feel better about. —This “figuring out” is a compulsive behavior that fuels your obsessive fear. It makes the brain think there is something that must be figured out when there probably isn’t, just something that feels uncertain right now (which is normal for any 15 year old). >>>>On some days I’m straight and other days I can’t stop doubting myself. In school most of the people I talk to are boys because they seem to accept me a lot better than girls and don’t judge me as harshly, so I think that also has an effect. I keep telling myself I’m not a lesbian, and the worrying, the hole in my stomach is disturbing my school work and my life in general. I am not attracted to anyone in school not boys and not girls, and also my sexual drive has gone severely down (I used to want to have sex like any other teenager, but not anymore) and I am really worried that something is wrong with me… I literally cannot spend 5 minutes without obsessing over my sexuality. —I can’t diagnose you from a blog comment, but this very much sounds like OCD (or at the very least anxiety) to me. >>>>I also feel that I am changing because of the girls in my school just to fit in (I am the only foreign person in my school, I moved countries so making friends is quite tough) As well, every time I see a picture of a girl, I get so worried that I am a lesbian that my heart just goes crazy and I almost have panic attacks! I’ve told my mom and my closest friends about these thoughts and they said that whatever my sexuality is, they will accept me, so I’m not worried about how other people would see me. I’ve always liked boys, and I’ve had a “first love” but now it seems impossible for me to fall in love or even have a crush on anybody. A few nights ago I couldn’t stop crying because I felt like I didn’t know myself anymore.. I am so confused and distracted and I just don’t know what to do…. —-Sorry to hear you are in such a painful place. It sounds like your parents are willing to hear what you have to say. I would suggest you start telling them you need treatment for OCD. Nicole November 19, 2013 at 8:21 pm - Reply Hello, I’ve suffered with OCD and “HOCD” for almost a year now. I’ve had a range of intrusive thoughts that have unsettled me and played over and over until i cant stand it. My first intrusive thought was that i wanted to break up with my long-term boyfriend (who i love) – that distressed me greatly and that was what forced me to go see a doctor about CBT. However as i had to move away i only had 5 or 6 sessions and although it made me aware of the OCD signs and rituals, i didn’t feel like i fully achieved what i wanted. I find however that HOCD is some of the worst intrusive thoughts i’ve had. I had a brief spout of HOCD back in Feb but i found if i obsessed about something else it would help distract me. Now recently the thought “What if you are gay?” just randomly pinged back into my mind, and my OCD qualities means i cant let it go. It’s physically and mentally distressing for me because i’m still with my boyfriend and i want to be with him, but i all these things inside my head prevent me fully being with him. “You’re saying this because you’re in denial” “You won’t be a good girlfriend to him because you are gay” “This is going to ruin your relationship”. I have very little control at the moment at whats inside my head, and now ive convinced myself that i am attracted to another woman in my degree course, that i have never spoken to and barely know. It scares me to no end, because everytime i see her or pass her in the hallway i feel sick. I feel sick knowing that i cant control my thoughts and then the whole cycle goes round again “You are attracted to her” “You’re gay” “What is your boyfriend going to think?” “This will ruin your relationship” Everytime i try and relax, let the thoughts sit there, it fires back as denial. I am almost sure it is OCD because i have other OCD qualities, im very much struggling at the minute however. Jonathan Hershfield November 27, 2013 at 5:16 am - Reply >>>>I’ve suffered with OCD and “HOCD” for almost a year now. I’ve had a range of intrusive thoughts that have unsettled me and played over and over until i cant stand it. My first intrusive thought was that i wanted to break up with my long-term boyfriend (who i love) – that distressed me greatly and that was what forced me to go see a doctor about CBT. However as i had to move away i only had 5 or 6 sessions and although it made me aware of the OCD signs and rituals, i didn’t feel like i fully achieved what i wanted. —–Many people with relationship obsessions also have sexual orientation obsessions (and vice versa). >>>>I find however that HOCD is some of the worst intrusive thoughts i’ve had. I had a brief spout of HOCD back in Feb but i found if i obsessed about something else it would help distract me. Now recently the thought “What if you are gay?” just randomly pinged back into my mind, and my OCD qualities means i cant let it go. —Your “ocd qualities” mean you are predisposed to responding to unwanted thoughts with compulsions. This is different from not being capable of letting it go. >>>>It’s physically and mentally distressing for me because i’m still with my boyfriend and i want to be with him, but i all these things inside my head prevent me fully being with him. “You’re saying this because you’re in denial” “You won’t be a good girlfriend to him because you are gay” “This is going to ruin your relationship”. I have very little control at the moment at whats inside my head, —You have zero control over what’s inside your head. You have control over how you respond to it. >>>>and now ive convinced myself that i am attracted to another woman in my degree course, that i have never spoken to and barely know. It scares me to no end, because everytime i see her or pass her in the hallway i feel sick. I feel sick knowing that i cant control my thoughts and then the whole cycle goes round again “You are attracted to her” “You’re gay” “What is your boyfriend going to think?” “This will ruin your relationship” —The idea that being attracted to another person, male or female, automatically means your relationship is ruined sounds like a relationship obsession, not a rational assessment. >>>>Everytime i try and relax, let the thoughts sit there, it fires back as denial. I am almost sure it is OCD because i have other OCD qualities, im very much struggling at the minute however. —I would recommend you get back to work with an ocd specialist who does cbt. You will want to construct a plan for doing exposure to your fear of being in denial and stop doing compulsions to reassure yourself about the future of your orientation or relationship. dave November 19, 2013 at 10:57 pm - Reply I suffered bad ED from age 19 onwards and it made me really depressed and unhappy. I worried about it for many years and saw doctors and urologists about it. I was sent to a family psychologist whose first question was ‘are you gay?’ and I laughed and said ‘no’. He then said ‘how do you know?” I didn’t think much of it for a year or so, It was during this stage of very low libido and struggling to get aroused even for my fantasies to girls (which always used to work) that I questioned mysedlf and tested to a gay thought and it started to work much better and I freaked. I mentioned it to the doc that I was worried I was gay and he set up an appointment for a sex therapist. I spoke to him on the phone for 10 mins maybe. He asked if I ever found women arousing and I replied ‘yes I did’ and he said its unlikely you arent gay, but he said we will find out, That freaked me out. Then he said ‘And if you are gay its not the end of the world.” I hung up and felt like crying and wanted to die. I never spoke to him again. I went to another urologist who had an onsite sex therapist for me to talk to. She asked me if I wanted to sleep with men and I replied ‘no’. She said you’re not gay. I spoke to her for an hour. I tried to be as honest as I could but didnt tell her about the quality of orgasms for men compared to women. I also spoke to another sex therapist briefly and she didnt think Iw as gay but I dont believe anyone. In my mind it seems as if everyone is lying or not knowing what is really going on in my body to make a correct judgement. I dont want to see someone new in case they say I am gay. Im worried and am thinking about this constantly, I just think there is too much evidence and I have convinced myself. The orgasm feels better and its easier to get aroused to guys. I thought I was straight up until I was 25 but its all worth nothing. All a big lie that I didnt even know about. Thats what it feels like anyway. I dont think an ocd doc can help me or even a sex therapist. I feel stuck. I dont want to be gay but think that I may well be and no one can change that and thats what I want. I got diagnosed ocd on skype by a therapist a few years ago but still dont believe it.. I will read the Grayson book but dont know what it can do for me tbh. I feel very down. Thanks anyway. Jonathan Hershfield November 26, 2013 at 5:03 pm - Reply Dave, it sounds like you’ve been through a lot. Many people have assessed you and given their opinion that you are not gay, mostly evidenced by the fact that you don’t identify as gay. But this does not give you certainty. Years of compulsive testing have had the opposite effect, fueling more and more doubt, narrowing the entire concept of sexual orientation to something as insignificant as the quality of an orgasm. I don’t have all the answers and you may be right that what you need therapeutically extends beyond a focus exclusively on OCD, and on sex for that matter. What I can say is that avoiding treatment because someone might say you are gay suggests that you believe two things: that a person saying you are gay defines your orientation and that if you accepted the possibility that you are bisexual, then life would cease to have meaning. I don’t think either of these things are objectively true, though I understand how they may fuel anxiety. My only and final recommendation is that you stop clinging to the idea that your current strategy, of testing and debating, will ever bring about the results you are looking for. Wish you the best. cath November 21, 2013 at 3:49 am - Reply Hi Jon, I absolutely know I have hocd. I have gone throufh the average list of obsessions in my life, and now I have this.I used to just not get wat lesbians saw In that type of sex. Now, I keep thibkibg of having sex with a girl i know, and liking it. It actually turns me on, but that makes me scared. I’m not saying I like the thoughts, but does not hating them make me gay? Maybe if I wasn’t so stressed I would actually enjoy gay thoughts, because my body and a big part of my mind is telling me i already do. I really do not want to like girls. I’ve always been happily straight. Am I gay? Also I do see a therapist and am taking medication! Thanks Jonathan Hershfield November 27, 2013 at 5:21 am - Reply Liking gay thoughts and being gay are not the same thing. If you are capable of enjoying gay thoughts and fantasies, my recommendation is to invest in that enjoyment in whatever way you see fit and stop compulsively trying to prove to yourself what it means. I just had a thought about lighting my apartment on fire. I didn’t really like it or hate it, just noticed it. Your recommendation? Mirnda November 28, 2013 at 8:57 pm - Reply Hi, every morning I wake up sayin oh I’m gay..goes on and on throughout the day unless I occupy my mind..Several voices in my head are there daily saying also rape thoughts..I like men I can’t understand this at all..have been diagnosed with physocosis but have not takin the table serqual in over three years as the last time swallowed panadol and bout 14 of the tablets along with a bottle of vodka coz could not deal with these voices..I know I’m not gay I like men i have 4 very good friends and often think that they think I’m gay..Sometimes feel like killing myself as these voices are very strong..plz help me. Jonathan Hershfield November 29, 2013 at 7:31 pm - Reply First, if you feel you are in any danger or at any risk of harming yourself, contact your local emergency service or go to the nearest emergency room. You say you have been diagnosed with psychosis (i’m assuming some type of psychotic disorder that involves hearing voices) and you are not taking medication, and that previously you were mixing meds and alcohol, which is very dangerous, as I’m sure you know. You are describing some symptoms of OCD (obsessing over your orientation, fearing that others may think you are gay, intrusive thoughts of a sexually disturbing nature), but it sounds like you would benefit from addressing your other mental health issues in the more immediate term and then working on the OCD once you are better stabilized. Dave November 29, 2013 at 5:26 pm - Reply ”Dave, it sounds like you’ve been through a lot. Many people have assessed you and given their opinion that you are not gay, mostly evidenced by the fact that you don’t identify as gay” Do you mean that they only told me I was straight because its what I wanted to identify as??? Like if I told them I thought I was gay are you saying they would have said yes you are gay because thats what I identified as even though it could be true or false?? I am not sure if you are trying to give me hints that I am gay. Maybe Im being extremely paranoid and crazy. I am stuck. If they said to me yes you are gay I would be very unhappy. I dont think it would be a liberating moment for me at all. I think I would react the way I would if a doctor told me I had cancer.It would be devastating. Its like saying to someone afraid of being a paedophile to accept it and enjoy it. If they told me Im straight I would still be doubting all the time-which is what has happened. I am 6 1/2 yrs worrying about this. I’ve seen the ocd specialists, I have seen the sex therapists. Why is this still an issue for me?? Is the reason it wont go away because somewhere in my mind I know its true?? Do you think that the only way for me to be happy would be to just accept Im gay and work around the fact I dont want to be?? Because society seems to preach that to guys who are worried about being gay. My mind is killing me and I dont think it will ever shut up until I am having sex with men. I dont want to and hate these thoughts but I am getting ‘attractions’ and groinals constantly. I had a dream last night I was finding guys sexually arousing but was trying to stop the arousal. Is that a message from my subconscious?? Is it possible my gay self was lying dormant until I was 25?? I can be doing ok then something will send me back to hell like seeing a good looking guy or getting a groinal. My whole day will be ruined then. I will be feeling depressed and hopeless. I am living in fear all the time. Jonathan Hershfield November 29, 2013 at 8:27 pm - Reply >>>>”Dave, it sounds like you’ve been through a lot. Many people have assessed you and given their opinion that you are not gay, mostly evidenced by the fact that you don’t identify as gay” Do you mean that they only told me I was straight because its what I wanted to identify as??? Like if I told them I thought I was gay are you saying they would have said yes you are gay because thats what I identified as even though it could be true or false?? I am not sure if you are trying to give me hints that I am gay. Maybe Im being extremely paranoid and crazy. —No, that’s not what I mean. I mean nobody thinks you’re gay, but you clearly have a distorted lens in your mind that refuses to take that for an answer. It’s called an informational bias. Even here you are doing it again. >>>>I am stuck. If they said to me yes you are gay I would be very unhappy. I dont think it would be a liberating moment for me at all. I think I would react the way I would if a doctor told me I had cancer.It would be devastating. Its like saying to someone afraid of being a paedophile to accept it and enjoy it. If they told me Im straight I would still be doubting all the time-which is what has happened. I am 6 1/2 yrs worrying about this. I’ve seen the ocd specialists, I have seen the sex therapists. Why is this still an issue for me?? Is the reason it wont go away because somewhere in my mind I know its true?? —My opinion has not changed since you began posting on this blog. You need to be currently and actively treating your OCD with CBT, ERP, and mindfulness skill development. It is still an issue for you because you are still stuck on the idea that continuing to do compulsions will produce the results you are looking for. >>>Do you think that the only way for me to be happy would be to just accept Im gay and work around the fact I dont want to be?? Because society seems to preach that to guys who are worried about being gay. My mind is killing me and I dont think it will ever shut up until I am having sex with men. I dont want to and hate these thoughts but I am getting ‘attractions’ and groinals constantly. I had a dream last night I was finding guys sexually arousing but was trying to stop the arousal. Is that a message from my subconscious?? —You don’t have a subconscious. That’s not a thing. >>>>Is it possible my gay self was lying dormant until I was 25?? I can be doing ok then something will send me back to hell like seeing a good looking guy or getting a groinal. My whole day will be ruined then. I will be feeling depressed and hopeless. I am living in fear all the time. —Dave, I’m sorry you are struggling so. I only have one note to play from this point forward, which is you need to stop compulsively testing and trying get certainty about your orientation and you need to be presently working on your OCD, regardless of how it went last time around. Maybe you can find some new resources locally at http://www.ocduk.org. Jonathan November 29, 2013 at 7:34 pm - Reply Hey Everyone, I have been dealing with this for some months now. What I have realized is attractions are just attractions. It doesn’t have to relate to any form of relationship, lifestyle, or meaning. I was a late bloomer in terms of relationships and sexuality. I have been with the love of my life, my beautiful woman for almost a year. What I have noticed is when I lost my virginity, my anxiety level spiked because during some of those pleasurable moments I had brief interludes of gay thoughts. Ever since, my ability to notice an attractive man has been spiked when I go out in public or whatever. I’m learning that I have been reflecting on past incidents when I noticed good looking males, etc… However, I have also come to the realization everyone is going to find anything attractive. Just because I find a man attractive or have the every once in awhile gay thought does not define who I am (only if I LET IT!!) You have to realize that if you keep allowing these small little incidents in as I have, you can surely convince yourself of anything!! What makes it different is just allowing yourself to acknowledge these attractions because even the most straight male or female can check out both sexes without defining meaning behind it. Enjoy your life. Jonathan November 29, 2013 at 7:52 pm - Reply Also Dave, I am also 25 years old and I JUST lost my virginity about 8 months ago. I have NO SHAME in admitting when I see an attractive man. It just is, beauty is beauty. No one in this life is 100% of anything. I thought that by being straight by what I always identified as meant there was no way I could find a man handsome or whatever or that the occasional gay thought was possible. I am easily influenced and have recently convinced myself I might be bi-curious! I even watched gay porn! And I didn’t even enjoy it! Does that make me gay? No. So why have I been so obsessed with labels? Because I have been going on blogs and websites and have been building all this up when as before, I didn’t! Which means, I caused this spiral to happen. Where as before, I always noticed men and women but did not think anything of it. Truth is, I find no one sexual only until a relationship is formed and I always wanted a woman. I can find men attractive all day (and women too) does that mean anything? Does it mean I want them? No. Why? Because I’m happy with whom I am with and how I chose to live my life. I find many things to be beautiful. Liz December 2, 2013 at 4:33 pm - Reply Hi Jonathan, Thanks for this blog, it’s probably the most helpful blog on HOCD that I’ve read. I hadn’t even heard of this until recently, but I feel like I’ve probably been experiencing it for the last two years, or maybe more. I want to give you some history, and I’ll try not to make this into an essay (ha). My family is quite sexually repressed – they used euphemisms for genitals, and my mum told me on more than one occasion not to get “too physical” with my boyfriend at the time. My sister often expressed disgust when penises were mentioned, and one asked me “don’t you think sex is disgusting”. She came out as gay about 4 years ago. I remember disagreeing with her about sex and penises, but I’m also very impressionable and feel that all this might have had a subconscious effect on my sexuality. I had crushes on boys in primary and high school. I would describe them more as romantic than physical, but they were definitely crushes. In high school, I also hung out with friends who were religious (I thought I was religious myself then, but am not now) and who disapproved very vocally of sex before marriage, and who didn’t have relationships themselves. In fact, one of them once told me they thought I was lucky with guys and had had more relationships than any of them! I got together with my current boyfriend 7 years ago (I’m 25). The first times we tried to have sex it was difficult and painful for me (I was a virgin then). We eventually managed to have sex, and it felt like a natural progression from what we’d been doing (if that makes sense). But then I started to get urinary infections (which I think I also got as a child, so maybe it’s just something about me) and it really made me depressed and worried about sex. My boyfriend and I did a long-distance relationship for a while after that, and some of the times we met up we had good, painless sex, although other times we avoided it in case I got an infection. I also was attracted to another guy when my boyfriend and I were apart, though I’m not sure if it was partly because he was interested in me and paying me attention. My boyfriend and I have been living together now for two years. I had another infection at the start of these two years, which made me depressed and made me start wondering “oh god, what if these recurring infections mean I’m gay” and it just snowballed from there. Our relationship had been changing slightly, as I guess relationships always do when you move in together, and sometimes I’ve had these freaky moments where I think “who is this person I’m sleeping next to?” Which then fuels my worrying mind even more. Do you think that’s part of OCD? It was also something I didn’t feel I could tell anyone, as they’d have just thought I was gay. And that made me panic even more, as I prefer to talk through problems with other people than work them out myself. That led to me feeling isolated and going into my shell, and becoming more introverted. I don’t like hiding things, it makes me uncomfortable, but I didn’t think I could share this with anyone. They’d just think I was in denial. I’ve always been what my family calls a “worrier”. I worry about health (for a while I was worried about ovarian cancer when I read it sometimes doesn’t show symptoms), about harming animals, about what people think of me. I once read an article (from a trashy self-help book) about how you can get pregnant if you fool around till climax, and worried for ages after that that I was pregnant. I see other commenters have had this fear. I also read an article about asexuality, and then started worrying that I might be asexual. I wouldn’t mind too much if I was attracted to women, but I would hate to lose my attraction to men. I’m starting to fear being a lesbian more than anything, because if I was bisexual or asexual I could still be with my boyfriend, whereas I couldn’t if I was a lesbian. I’ve been attracted to men in the past, but I feel like now when I check men out I don’t get a physical response, whereas I check myself with almost all women, and start thinking “maybe I find them attractive, what if I do, but how could I be attracted to all women”… well, you know the kind of rant and self-argument I’m talking about. Also when my friends and I are bantering about sex, I feel like I’m faking it and trying too hard. It’s all very scary and exhausting, especially when the people around me seem to be having normal conversations and thoughts. I can’t quite see myself as gay, but then I get thinking that maybe if I came out I’d feel happy, free and relieved from all the anxiety about everything, not just my sexuality, and it would solve all my relationship issues. I read a novel about a character who went from a heterosexual to a same-sex relationship and how in the second one, the sex was better, there was more talking, and they pretty much lived happily ever after. I know deep down this isn’t realistic and gay couples would also have arguments and problems, but it’s made me think that if I was in a gay relationship all my problems would be solved. Also, I worry about lots of things (health, vomiting, whether people like me, whether I’m an introvert or an extrovert, etc), and sometimes get to feeling that if I was gay, it would solve all those worries. Even though I know I’d probably find something new to worry about! I sometimes find an intrusive and negative thought popping into my head, then I forget it, then it’s like I have to drag it back into my head and remind myself of it… Can you tell me if that sounds like OCD to you? Thanks in advance for your help. I’d really like to be free of these spikes and in control of them, as I can see how they’re affecting my life. When I’m spiking, it’s like I can see the good and funny things happening in life, but as though I’m surrounded by a fog and can only see them fuzzily through the fog. I don’t want to be in denial or have to come out, but I do want to be free from this anxiety and feeling like “i have to know NOW, am I gay?”I hope you can help me! Do you think I have HOCD? Best wishes, Liz Jonathan Hershfield December 6, 2013 at 6:25 am - Reply >>>>Thanks for this blog, it’s probably the most helpful blog on HOCD that I’ve read. I hadn’t even heard of this until recently, but I feel like I’ve probably been experiencing it for the last two years, or maybe more. —Glad it was helpful! >>>I want to give you some history, and I’ll try not to make this into an essay (ha). —Commence essay here…;) >>>>My family is quite sexually repressed – they used euphemisms for genitals, and my mum told me on more than one occasion not to get “too physical” with my boyfriend at the time. My sister often expressed disgust when penises were mentioned, and one asked me “don’t you think sex is disgusting”. She came out as gay about 4 years ago. I remember disagreeing with her about sex and penises, but I’m also very impressionable and feel that all this might have had a subconscious effect on my sexuality. —My clients often give me a hard time when I tell them they don’t have a subconscious. Still, what you are describing is quite conscious. You are affected by the people you grew up with and learned to cope with and frame things in certain ways that still affect you. That is normal. >>>>I had crushes on boys in primary and high school. I would describe them more as romantic than physical, but they were definitely crushes. In high school, I also hung out with friends who were religious (I thought I was religious myself then, but am not now) and who disapproved very vocally of sex before marriage, and who didn’t have relationships themselves. In fact, one of them once told me they thought I was lucky with guys and had had more relationships than any of them! I got together with my current boyfriend 7 years ago (I’m 25). The first times we tried to have sex it was difficult and painful for me (I was a virgin then). We eventually managed to have sex, and it felt like a natural progression from what we’d been doing (if that makes sense). But then I started to get urinary infections (which I think I also got as a child, so maybe it’s just something about me) and it really made me depressed and worried about sex. My boyfriend and I did a long-distance relationship for a while after that, and some of the times we met up we had good, painless sex, although other times we avoided it in case I got an infection. I also was attracted to another guy when my boyfriend and I were apart, though I’m not sure if it was partly because he was interested in me and paying me attention. —It’s not like in the movies, but your story is more common than you might assume. >>>My boyfriend and I have been living together now for two years. I had another infection at the start of these two years, which made me depressed and made me start wondering “oh god, what if these recurring infections mean I’m gay” and it just snowballed from there. —Some people are more prone to these types of infections than others. I’m not well versed in the science of it but presumably there are medications that help. I’m not clear on how you connected this to an issue of orientation and not just biological luck of the immunity draw. >>> Our relationship had been changing slightly, as I guess relationships always do when you move in together, and sometimes I’ve had these freaky moments where I think “who is this person I’m sleeping next to?” Which then fuels my worrying mind even more. Do you think that’s part of OCD? —Well, it’s a normal thought to have in even the healthiest of relationships. But if you have OCD, you may be obsessing about the need for certainty in the relationship and this can be problematic. Relationship obsessions and sexual orientation obsessions often co-occur. >>>>It was also something I didn’t feel I could tell anyone, as they’d have just thought I was gay. And that made me panic even more, as I prefer to talk through problems with other people than work them out myself. That led to me feeling isolated and going into my shell, and becoming more introverted. I don’t like hiding things, it makes me uncomfortable, but I didn’t think I could share this with anyone. They’d just think I was in denial. —Actually you can;t predict what people will think and mind reading is a common cognitive distortion in ocd. That being said, it’s understandable that you may be uncomfortable sharing personal sexual details with people. That’s at least one reason to speak to an ocd therapist. >>>>I’ve always been what my family calls a “worrier”. I worry about health (for a while I was worried about ovarian cancer when I read it sometimes doesn’t show symptoms), about harming animals, about what people think of me. I once read an article (from a trashy self-help book) about how you can get pregnant if you fool around till climax, and worried for ages after that that I was pregnant. I see other commenters have had this fear. I also read an article about asexuality, and then started worrying that I might be asexual. —These are all common OCD traits. >>>>I wouldn’t mind too much if I was attracted to women, but I would hate to lose my attraction to men. I’m starting to fear being a lesbian more than anything, because if I was bisexual or asexual I could still be with my boyfriend, whereas I couldn’t if I was a lesbian. I’ve been attracted to men in the past, but I feel like now when I check men out I don’t get a physical response, whereas I check myself with almost all women, and start thinking “maybe I find them attractive, what if I do, but how could I be attracted to all women”… well, you know the kind of rant and self-argument I’m talking about. Also when my friends and I are bantering about sex, I feel like I’m faking it and trying too hard. It’s all very scary and exhausting, especially when the people around me seem to be having normal conversations and thoughts. —You’ve probably already figured out that checking is a compulsion and the reason why you get activated by the things you fear and under-whelmed by the things you want to be activated by. >>>>I can’t quite see myself as gay, but then I get thinking that maybe if I came out I’d feel happy, free and relieved from all the anxiety about everything, not just my sexuality, and it would solve all my relationship issues. I read a novel about a character who went from a heterosexual to a same-sex relationship and how in the second one, the sex was better, there was more talking, and they pretty much lived happily ever after. I know deep down this isn’t realistic and gay couples would also have arguments and problems, but it’s made me think that if I was in a gay relationship all my problems would be solved. —You know it’s unrealistic and it’s made you think it’s realistic? Lots of people have bad heterosexual relationships and then have good heterosexual relationships too. >>>>Also, I worry about lots of things (health, vomiting, whether people like me, whether I’m an introvert or an extrovert, etc), and sometimes get to feeling that if I was gay, it would solve all those worries. Even though I know I’d probably find something new to worry about! I sometimes find an intrusive and negative thought popping into my head, then I forget it, then it’s like I have to drag it back into my head and remind myself of it… Can you tell me if that sounds like OCD to you? —Yes. >>>>Thanks in advance for your help. I’d really like to be free of these spikes and in control of them, as I can see how they’re affecting my life. When I’m spiking, it’s like I can see the good and funny things happening in life, but as though I’m surrounded by a fog and can only see them fuzzily through the fog. I don’t want to be in denial or have to come out, but I do want to be free from this anxiety and feeling like “i have to know NOW, am I gay?”I hope you can help me! Do you think I have HOCD? —I can’t diagnose you from a blog comment, but you described several different common symptoms of the disorder. My recommendation would be to seek out an ocd specialist and get an assessment. Don’t now where you’re located, but http://www.ocfoundation.com has a good treatment provider list. Liz December 9, 2013 at 6:09 pm - Reply Thanks for reading my essay 🙂 and for your reply! Sorry I’m a bit late in replying – I had that one spike on the day I wrote the comment, and haven’t really had one since, which is why I haven’t checked the site (I guess that’s a good thing!) I’ve been trying to let the thoughts come into my head and then move on, so maybe it’s been working. Thanks again for your help – it’s really good to know other people experience this and can manage it. I’ll check out the link you sent and see if there’s any good OCD specialists near me (I’m in London). All the best 🙂 Lady December 7, 2013 at 7:58 pm - Reply Hi Jon Great posts. I am writing because I have a complex form of OCD. Years ago, I was diagnosed with HOCD and then it went away. I totally enjoyed having sex with men and felt totally secure in my sexuality. Then, one day, toward the end of my relationship with an ex, we were in the middle of having sex and I saw an awning outside of the window that was pink and I thought “I accept that I’m gay” … Because of a pink awning which I guess made me think of femininity. Like someone wrote above it is this “feeling” of being gay. I haven’t been able to shake it for years and also my personality totally changed as a result. All of these things that were tied to my heterosexual lifestyle seemed to fade or disappear. There were a few occasions when I tried to act on being gay or really telling myself that I was and all of the sudden my straight self reappeared. However, these moments were brief. I should also add that when I accepting the gay feelings, again nothing about a woman specifically just the general “feeling”, I all of the sudden started to do things that I couldn’t do before. I’m so confused because I miss my old self. Here and there I see glimpses of it, but after this long struggle I don’t know what to do. I actually feel myself rejecting old parts of myself because they won’t be “enough”… I dont know what that means but that keeps coming to mind. But when push comes to shove and I force myself to really think I’m gay, this glimmer of my straight self comes through. It is like a little voice trying to be heard. And when I say changes in my personality I mean that I don’t laugh at things that I used to and feel a weird superiority that I didn’t have before. How do I get my straight self to just exist and figure out why this gay “feeling” took over? Sorry that this is long and it is probably a little confusing, but I find myself without answers. Thanks! Jonathan Hershfield December 11, 2013 at 8:00 pm - Reply >>>>Hi Jon Great posts. I am writing because I have a complex form of OCD. Years ago, I was diagnosed with HOCD and then it went away. I totally enjoyed having sex with men and felt totally secure in my sexuality. Then, one day, toward the end of my relationship with an ex, we were in the middle of having sex and I saw an awning outside of the window that was pink and I thought “I accept that I’m gay” … Because of a pink awning which I guess made me think of femininity. Like someone wrote above it is this “feeling” of being gay. I haven’t been able to shake it for years and also my personality totally changed as a result. All of these things that were tied to my heterosexual lifestyle seemed to fade or disappear. —Why would you try to shake it? What is there to shake? You had a thought and a feeling and something about the thought and feeling seemed associated with “gayness” to you. Why is this a thing to shake and not accept? >>>>There were a few occasions when I tried to act on being gay or really telling myself that I was and all of the sudden my straight self reappeared. However, these moments were brief. I should also add that when I accepting the gay feelings, again nothing about a woman specifically just the general “feeling”, I all of the sudden started to do things that I couldn’t do before. —It’s because when you do this agreeing behavior, you are blocking yourself from doing compulsions. It’s the compulsions that keep you in chains. >>>>I’m so confused because I miss my old self. Here and there I see glimpses of it, but after this long struggle I don’t know what to do. I actually feel myself rejecting old parts of myself because they won’t be “enough”… I dont know what that means but that keeps coming to mind. But when push comes to shove and I force myself to really think I’m gay, this glimmer of my straight self comes through. It is like a little voice trying to be heard. —It sounds like you are doing exposure, whether that’s your aim or not, and this is working. But then you get scared and start doing compulsions, which neutralize the fear, but then make you go back to being obsessive. >>>>And when I say changes in my personality I mean that I don’t laugh at things that I used to and feel a weird superiority that I didn’t have before. How do I get my straight self to just exist and figure out why this gay “feeling” took over? —By doing absolutely nothing at all that even approaches the idea of “figuring out” why you have these feelings and instead accepting the presence of thoughts and feelings while you go about the business of being who you are. You can also probably do ERP to the fear that your personality has changed permanently by writing imaginal exposure scripts. Eli December 13, 2013 at 1:19 pm - Reply Hello! I read your article when hocd was really bad for me and it was a great help. I am seeing a therapist for 4 months and it helped but I’m thinking to change my therapist, because she doesn’t use ERP and because she told me that I will never really know what I am unless I try it and that i cannot decide what I am and that’s why I have this obsession. So, I wanna change her because first of all she is not a clinical psychologist and second of all because I understand that the whole point of the obsession is the ” I need to know” and she advised me to try it when I have to learn to live with the uncertainty. So I don’t really trust her for all the reasons above. If I ever try something gay, I will not do it just because I wanna be sure about my sexuality. To be honest I don’t wanna try anything gay. I have hocd for goodness shake… The whole thing makes me scared to death. What is your opinion about it? I have already an appointment with a clinical psychologist but I would really love to hear your opinion because you helped me when I was living in hell… Jonathan Hershfield December 14, 2013 at 10:14 pm - Reply Hi Eli, happy to hear the article was helpful for you. I don’t know what your therapist is talking about. There is no such thing as treatment for ocd without ERP and the ideas that a) “really knowing” is the goal and b) “trying it” is the appropriate technique makes little sense to me. Its not important what degree or license they have (I’m an MFT) so long as they are licensed to do therapy and the therapy they are doing is CBT with ERP. Eli December 15, 2013 at 12:16 am - Reply Thank you very much for answering. I just wanna do it right and finish with it because I refuse to spend my whole life trying to be sure about something like that. Her advise was the true reason behind my decision. I ve been so obsessed with all this thing. I even searched my astrological chart for signs. I look everywhere for signs. And she said to me that and she just reminded of myself. I have though about it too, because i need to know. But I am sick and I need help. I don’t want to try new things. I just want to stop being obsessed and live my life. Simple as that. Thank you so much again. Jay December 17, 2013 at 5:14 am - Reply Hi, i’m a 19 year old guy and I have a question about hocd. I have been suffering from what i believe to be hocd for about 8 months now. I have always liked girls from as long as I can remember. even when I was young, in Kindergarden I remember liking girls. As I grew up I had several crushes on girls, I have never really dated due to my shyness around girls and I am a virgin, but I have always liked girls very much, never had a crush on a guy, EVER. I have a history of OCD or obsessive thoughts. The first big one I can remember was when I was about 11 i would gag all the time. I couldn’t talk without gagging, of course it ended up being in my head. For the years after that my obsessive thoughts were mostly worries about getting certain diseases such as cancer and other ailments. Now this hocd hit me (what i hope to be hocd) and this is by far the worst. I have been obsessing for months over the possibility of being gay and I do all this checking by looking at attractive men to see if i’m attracted to them, and watching gay porn to prove to myself I don’t like it. When it started I also compulsively masturbated to straight porn and straight fantasies. At the moments when I really start to believe i’m gay I get this huge “spike” of anxiety and have to try and convince myself it’s ocd. This sucks because I have always loved girls, even female celebrities, I have had quite a few celebrity crushes as well. I have always pictured and fantasized about being with woman. the obsessive nature of it, the anxiety, and the checking lead me to believe it is hocd but of course I am doubting whether or not it is hocd as well. I would really like your opinion on if u think this is ocd. like I said I have a history of obsessive thoughts but this one is bad. I have even been a little more conscious of the way I speak to make sure I don’t speak or act in a feminine manner. If this is ocd I have decide that this is the last straw and I am going to overcome odd because I can’t take this hocd anymore. I also check to make sure I like woman and if I think i feel no attraction that brings anxiety as well. is this odd? also my dad suffered from ocd as well when I was a young bo, I didn’t know that at the time but could I have inherited it? Thanks – Jay Jonathan Hershfield December 17, 2013 at 5:15 pm - Reply Hi Jay, I can’t diagnose you from a blog comment, but in addition to what clearly sounds like a history of OCD, you describe several current symptoms of OCD, such as compulsive reassurance seeking with pornography, compulsive checking/avoiding related to the way you walk or present yourself, compulsive checking for attractions, and mental review of your past and current attractions. To your question of inheriting the disorder, the research available to us thus far indicates that genetics plays a significant role in whether someone is predisposed to developing the disorder, yes. Ivan December 19, 2013 at 1:17 am - Reply Hi Mr jonathan, I believe im suffering from this hocd but I don’t have a diagnose yet, because I live in colombia and the psycologist here treat it like I was just a gay guy with anxiety and they told me to try gay stuff. I didn’t because I dont really want to but the gay thoughts im having are kiling me because i can’t difference what is real or what is not, the thing is that I had this anxiety for like 2 months, loss of apetite and all that i have read that happens to people with hocd. after that I have been feeling good but now thoughts are back but the bad thing now is that I don’t feel any anxiety, the thougts doesn’t give me an erection or something but i feel a lil bit aroused, I instantly block the thought and start worrying about it but without the anxiety, I have always liked girls and my first crushes were on girls. all this thing happended because I started watching bisexual videos on porn sites then I reactioned and said to my self ” WTH am I doing, I have a girlfriend (5 years relationship, and a good one) why I watch this crap to get off” the all this hocd crap started to ruin my life, im not even studying or doing something productive thanks to this im totally blocked. I just want an advice on what to do. and I don´t want to visit a psychiatrist here because they all suck, science here is really far away from this present. and I dont want to leave my girlfriend but my seex drive is gone, i can get good erections while being with her but anyway I dont feel thaaaat aroused as it used to be also i dont think in sex anymore, like any kind of sex is horrible for me now. thanks for the answer beforehand. ps I didn’t watch too much bisexual / tranny videos before noticing i was doing it wrong. like 5 of each or dunno but few. 🙁 Jonathan Hershfield December 21, 2013 at 2:00 am - Reply It sounds like you have some distorted ideas about what it means that you watched those videos. Why is being able to enjoy something taboo a problem? If it’s “because straight people shouldn’t be able to enjoy things that aren’t 100% straight,” then that’s inaccurate and should be challenged. You mentioned trying to block thoughts from happening. That doesn’t work and only makes them more intrusive. When you have the thoughts, you need to accept that those are the thoughts going through your head. It’s up to you if you want to attribute meaning to them. If you can’t find a suitable ocd specialists where you live, see someone online in the US. If that is not possible, try doing it on your own with a self-cbt book like The Mindfulness Workbook for OCD, Freedom From Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, or Imp of the Mind. Ivan December 21, 2013 at 4:01 am - Reply Thanks for the answer, just one other thing, can a person directly suffer from HOCD without having another ocd symptoms before? I mean like suddently you have hocd because i dont remeber having issues with anxiety before all this happened. Jonathan Hershfield December 21, 2013 at 4:24 am - Reply Apparently. You might consider that your need to know this is a form of reassurance seeking. Ivan December 21, 2013 at 2:03 am - Reply Hi Mr Jonathan Hershfield.(i sent already a message before but dont know what happened) I do not have a diagnose of hocd from any specialist yet but I believe (I hope) I have this issue and not a sexual confusion. I have always been straight my whole life, I had crushes on girls, I like every single part from a woman’s body and never felt any kind of attraction for any man. it all started because I have been watching porn since I was like dunno 10? I can’t remember, and it scalated to transexual and bisexual videos because I was bored of watching the same also I say bisexual and not gay because I really didn’t want to see just 2 guys, all my videos must include a real girl, obviously I didn’t took too much videos to notice I was not doing the right thing, so I said to myself “What is wrong with me? if i liked those videos is because I am gay.” then the hell came to earth for me, I passed 2 months with this anxiety, loss of appetite, depression, couldn’t go out with friends because i thought i was going to like them etc and a voice telling me every single moment that I was gay and I had to accept it. now I feel better (since december 2013) but at the same time worst, because sometimes the gay thoughts come to my mind but I feel nothing, no anxiety, no arousal, or when I feel a little bit arousal there is no anxiety and I start depressing( before I felt anxiety right exactly after a gay thought). its like im accepting those thoughts and don’t want them to be there at any moment, I want everything how it was. I have to add that I have a girlfriend who thanks god is psycologist and she is helping me now with this, obviously she is not treating me but she understand how it works. I want some advice on what to do Dr jonathan, because I live in colombia and psycologist / psychiatrist here treat it like a simple attack of anxiety I know your first advice will be go see a especialist but here is not that easy, also I can’t afford a good one and here, that illness is not common. Joanna January 3, 2014 at 11:34 pm - Reply Hi Dr. Hershfield, thank you for this great article! At first I’d like to point out that I’m not a native English speaker so there might be some mistakes in my text. So, I’ve been struggling with HOCD thoughts for months now and feel like I can’t take this anymore. I’m 18 years old girl and I’ve always been kind of a worrier. I’ve worried about getting cancer, heart attack, diabetes etc and sometimes I’ve had to go to doctor just to check that my headache isn’t a sign of brain tumor. I also feel like my brain is developing new problems all the time: when one problem is solved it attacks with another one so I’m always worrying over stupid things. Now I’ve been having these fears since July but I think it all began much earlier, because for over a year I’ve been afraid that others may think I’m lesbian. At first it wasn’t very bad, those thoughts appeared very seldom and I just let them go and wondered why I had those thoughts because I had always been straight and had massive crushes on boys so the fear seemed irrational. Last spring I heard that one bisexual girl on my school had a crush on me and that freaked me out because I started to think if she and the whole school thought I was a lesbian because I’ve never had any serious relationships. Anyway, weeks went by and I forgot her and my fears and had such an amazing summer, I had a big crush on this one boy and we had some sort of a fling and I really, really liked him. Then he moved to another city and we never saw each other again and then BOOM the homosexual thoughts hit me. I was doing online shopping on internet and thinking “why can’t I have a body like hers” and suddenly my brain said “you don’t want to look like her, you want to be with her and have sex with her”. I got really anxious and panicked, I remember running out of the house and sitting on the cold pavement just thinking that this was it, I had became a lesbian and I would never ever be happy again. That night was followed by the most terrifying week I’ve experienced in my whole life. I was so anxious and depressed that I couldn’t eat or study or do practically anything. I just sat on my room, shaking, crying and hoping to die. I tried to talk with my mother but she didn’t think I was serious and just said that those kinds of fears are very typical for teenagers but it didn’t make me feel any better. I also talked to our school’s psychiatric nurse but he thought that these fears had something to do with my childhood traumas even though I don’t have any. He didn’t think I had OCD because I didn’t have any “real compulsions” and just told me to relax and let the thoughts come and go. Easier said than done! Then I tried googling and came across HOCD. I was very relieved when I read so many stories very similar to mine and for a while the anxiety went away but after a few days it came back even worse and so went 6 months of my life. I can’t enjoy anything anymore because all I can think about are these thoughts. I feel uncomfortable with my friends because I’m afraid I have a crush on them which I really don’t. I check with every man and woman which I prefer and whom I’d like to have sex with and I can’t get answers because I’m so anxious all the time. Sometimes I get the groinal response and it freaks me out. Right now I’m just so tired of this nightmare and feel like giving up. I don’t know what to do because in my country Pure-O isn’t very well known and I haven’t found any articles about HOCD on my language. I’m afraid that if I go to see a therapist he’ll just think I’m wasting his time and I just should admit my gayness and stop calling this HOCD. How common is this version in the world of OCD? Does every OCD therapist know about it? Also, is it typical in HOCD to question everyone else’s sexual orientation too? I’ve noticed that every time I see someone who has some stereotypical gay features I start wondering if he or she is gay and then my head starts yelling things like “you wished she were gay so you could date her” or “you wished he were gay so you weren’t alone in your little closet” and then I just shake my head and try saying no that’s not true but the thoughts aren’t going anywhere. With HOCD thoughts also came some other fears like being a transsexual or these obsessive thoughts being signs of schizophrenia etc but those fears don’t feel as true as the gay ones. I bought Edna Foa and Reid Wilson’s book “Stop Obsessing” but it didn’t help because every time I tried to do those exercises my brain started saying that “these aren’t going to work as you don’t actually have this disease but are a lesbian instead” and then the anxiety was too big to overcome and I gave up. I’m sorry this reply became this long but honestly, I don’t know what to do anymore. Jonathan Hershfield January 9, 2014 at 6:17 am - Reply >>>>Hi Dr. Hershfield, thank you for this great article! At first I’d like to point out that I’m not a native English speaker so there might be some mistakes in my text. So, I’ve been struggling with HOCD thoughts for months now and feel like I can’t take this anymore. I’m 18 years old girl and I’ve always been kind of a worrier. I’ve worried about getting cancer, heart attack, diabetes etc and sometimes I’ve had to go to doctor just to check that my headache isn’t a sign of brain tumor. I also feel like my brain is developing new problems all the time: when one problem is solved it attacks with another one so I’m always worrying over stupid things. —-Sounds like OCD. >>>>Now I’ve been having these fears since July but I think it all began much earlier, because for over a year I’ve been afraid that others may think I’m lesbian. At first it wasn’t very bad, those thoughts appeared very seldom and I just let them go and wondered why I had those thoughts because I had always been straight and had massive crushes on boys so the fear seemed irrational. Last spring I heard that one bisexual girl on my school had a crush on me and that freaked me out because I started to think if she and the whole school thought I was a lesbian because I’ve never had any serious relationships. —Maybe. Not possible to know what others are thinking and also doesn’t matter. >>>>Anyway, weeks went by and I forgot her and my fears and had such an amazing summer, I had a big crush on this one boy and we had some sort of a fling and I really, really liked him. Then he moved to another city and we never saw each other again and then BOOM the homosexual thoughts hit me. I was doing online shopping on internet and thinking “why can’t I have a body like hers” and suddenly my brain said “you don’t want to look like her, you want to be with her and have sex with her”. I got really anxious and panicked, I remember running out of the house and sitting on the cold pavement just thinking that this was it, I had became a lesbian and I would never ever be happy again. —Sounds like a bad spike. Sure you’ve had it before with your health obsessions. >>>>That night was followed by the most terrifying week I’ve experienced in my whole life. I was so anxious and depressed that I couldn’t eat or study or do practically anything. I just sat on my room, shaking, crying and hoping to die. I tried to talk with my mother but she didn’t think I was serious and just said that those kinds of fears are very typical for teenagers but it didn’t make me feel any better. I also talked to our school’s psychiatric nurse but he thought that these fears had something to do with my childhood traumas even though I don’t have any. He didn’t think I had OCD because I didn’t have any “real compulsions” and just told me to relax and let the thoughts come and go. Easier said than done! —-There are a lot of idiots out there with no training in diagnosis and treatment of OCD despite it being among the most common disorders. It takes one book, any book on ocd, to understand the basics of ocd and how anyone could say you don’t do “real compulsions” when you’re in your head all day trying to prove your fears aren’t true — it’s just absurd. “Real compulsions” — that gets me every time. >>>>Then I tried googling and came across HOCD. I was very relieved when I read so many stories very similar to mine and for a while the anxiety went away but after a few days it came back even worse and so went 6 months of my life. I can’t enjoy anything anymore because all I can think about are these thoughts. I feel uncomfortable with my friends because I’m afraid I have a crush on them which I really don’t. I check with every man and woman which I prefer and whom I’d like to have sex with and I can’t get answers because I’m so anxious all the time. Sometimes I get the groinal response and it freaks me out. Right now I’m just so tired of this nightmare and feel like giving up. I don’t know what to do because in my country Pure-O isn’t very well known and I haven’t found any articles about HOCD on my language. I’m afraid that if I go to see a therapist he’ll just think I’m wasting his time and I just should admit my gayness and stop calling this HOCD. How common is this version in the world of OCD? Does every OCD therapist know about it? —The studies suggest that sexual obsessions make up about 11% of the OCD population. Your english seems very good to me. If you can’t find an ocd specialist in your country, I would look for one online in english. >>>>Also, is it typical in HOCD to question everyone else’s sexual orientation too? I’ve noticed that every time I see someone who has some stereotypical gay features I start wondering if he or she is gay and then my head starts yelling things like “you wished she were gay so you could date her” or “you wished he were gay so you weren’t alone in your little closet” and then I just shake my head and try saying no that’s not true but the thoughts aren’t going anywhere. —It’s an obsession with sexual orientation. Very common for it to include the orientation of others. >>>With HOCD thoughts also came some other fears like being a transsexual or these obsessive thoughts being signs of schizophrenia etc but those fears don’t feel as true as the gay ones. I bought Edna Foa and Reid Wilson’s book “Stop Obsessing” but it didn’t help because every time I tried to do those exercises my brain started saying that “these aren’t going to work as you don’t actually have this disease but are a lesbian instead” and then the anxiety was too big to overcome and I gave up. I’m sorry this reply became this long but honestly, I don’t know what to do anymore. —It sounds like you have been living with undiagnosed OCD for some time and it’s a pretty significant case of it. You may need more than a workbook. That being said, Dr. Foa’s workbook may not be the right fit for you. I would suggest “The Mindfulness Workbook for OCD” or “Freedom From Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.” But if there is any way you can access treatment with a specialist, it is long deserved. Joanna January 12, 2014 at 4:58 pm - Reply Thank you so much for replying! Thanks for the book recommendations too, I’ll check them out. I’ve done some research and found a few OCD therapists on my area but I don’t know what to do now, should I email them or just book an appointment? And if I book an appointment for OCD treatment and then the therapist thinks I don’t actually have it, what do I do then? I can’t keep going on forever having these thoughts but at the same time I’ve been thinking that I’d rather have these fears than actually be lesbian. I’m so afraid of the future because I’ve read many stories where someone has been totally straight for decades and suddenly she realizes that she prefers women and she doesn’t want to be with men anymore. I don’t wanna wake up one day being gay, I’d rather have this constant doubt even though it is painful and distressing. And sometimes, when I realize that wow I’ve spent a whole hour without obsessing and at first I feel good and think like “this is getting better, I’ll get rid of the thoughts”. Then I remember reading somewhere that “gay people can stop their sexual thoughts when they wish and that’s something an OCD patient can’t do” and then I get really scared and start to wonder if this means that I’m gay so I somehow think that if I stop worrying over this thing it becomes reality and I’ll get used to the thought and one day act on it. This whole situation is so confusing because it feels so real like something I want but at the same time these thoughts freak me out and it feels like I’m losing my mind and becoming something I’m really not. Jonathan Hershfield January 18, 2014 at 7:42 pm - Reply You should call a few of them and ask them questions about their experience treating OCD and sexual obsessions in particular. There is a good list of questions you might ask at http://www.ocfoundation.org/treatment_providers.aspx. Then schedule an appointment and take the risk that things won’t be exactly how you want them to be. The alternative is endless suffering, right? I don’t know where you are reading these “many” stories of people spontaneously waking up gay. I have never met any of these people and you would think over the years one of them would have dropped by to say hello by now. So rude… Joanna February 4, 2014 at 9:55 pm Thanks again for answering. I haven’t searched therapist yet because there has been so much going on in my life lately and my condition has also been changing all the time. Some days I feel quite alright but the next day I feel absolutely horrible and the gay thoughts won’t leave me alone for a second. Is this typical for OCD that the condition changes and some days intrusive thoughts are less strong? Also, I’m afraid that the OCD diagnose would be bad for my future, I don’t want to be seen as a nut who can’t even keep her head together and has to go on medication to stay sane. I know it sounds ridiculous but it’s how I feel. One night I was out with my friends and drank too much. I don’t remember much from the last hours but the next day my friends told me that I had acted weird and said something scary about killing people. That freaked me out because I would never do anything like that and I almost couldn’t believe I had said something like that. My friends said they knew I wasn’t serious with the weird comments but it didn’t make me feel any better. Then I got the same kind of anxiety that comes with the lesbian thoughts but this was caused by a different fear. Later that night I was watching the film Zodiac which tells a story of the Zodiac Killer. When the film was over I got a terrible thought like “could I kill somebody?” and then my mind started accusing me of everything I had ever thought like “when you were younger you thought Voldemort from Harry Potter was kind of a cool guy though he killed innocent people” and “you did think the Zodiac’s case was interesting didn’t you that means you admire him” and “when you have been very angry you’ve wished you had a gun” and all this stuff just kept revolving around me. I know I don’t want to harm anyone but even the Zodiac Killer wrote that he didn’t want to kill those people but he couldn’t stop. I didn’t sleep very well that night. The next day the anxiety was almost gone but came back when I realised that I might have said something else horrible. I got so afraid, what if I had told my friend I thought I was a lesbian? The thought made me feel sick, I didn’t want them to think I was because I’m not! But with these obsessive thoughts I honestly can’t trust myself anymore. My friends have been acting all normal after that friday night but I can’t stop thinking about the “what ifs”. I don’t want them to think I’m something I’m not, it’s hard enough to convince myself that these thoughts aren’t real. I don’t want to be with girls and I don’t want anyone to think I wanted but now I might have done the biggest mistake in my life and told lies about the most personal things about me. The most terrible thing about this whole thing is not knowing what I have said to them and was the killing stuff the only weird thing I said. I can’t take this uncertainty or the thought about me becoming a lesbian serial killer who doesn’t want to be either one but has no other choice than to accept them as a part of who she is. I don’t want to be her. Both fears are horrible but the gay ones are probably worse because they do not only feel more real but I also know that it would be so much easier to do or say something “gay” than to plan a perfect murder. I’m also very sad about these thoughts taking over my interest in men. I’ve always had many celebrity crushes and men who I have always adored and dreamed of but now every time I see a picture of one of them my mind starts the “stop kidding yourself, you’d rather watch female pics” thing. I’ve begged for the voice to shut up but it never does. It’s taking away everything I used to enjoy and the worst thing is I don’t know if it is the disorder or my own will. Jonathan Hershfield February 7, 2014 at 5:04 am >>>>Thanks again for answering. I haven’t searched therapist yet because there has been so much going on in my life lately and my condition has also been changing all the time. Some days I feel quite alright but the next day I feel absolutely horrible and the gay thoughts won’t leave me alone for a second. Is this typical for OCD that the condition changes and some days intrusive thoughts are less strong? —Yes, it is also typical to avoid getting treatment, which results in the obsession coming and going over and over indefinitely. >>>Also, I’m afraid that the OCD diagnose would be bad for my future, I don’t want to be seen as a nut who can’t even keep her head together and has to go on medication to stay sane. I know it sounds ridiculous but it’s how I feel. —Yes, that is ridiculous. And in any case, how do you know that you will go on medication? Maybe you will, but what you need first is cognitive behavioral therapy. >>>>One night I was out with my friends and drank too much. I don’t remember much from the last hours but the next day my friends told me that I had acted weird and said something scary about killing people. That freaked me out because I would never do anything like that and I almost couldn’t believe I had said something like that. My friends said they knew I wasn’t serious with the weird comments but it didn’t make me feel any better. Then I got the same kind of anxiety that comes with the lesbian thoughts but this was caused by a different fear. Later that night I was watching the film Zodiac which tells a story of the Zodiac Killer. —Yeah, I remember that one, pretty good flick. >>>When the film was over I got a terrible thought like “could I kill somebody?” and then my mind started accusing me of everything I had ever thought like “when you were younger you thought Voldemort from Harry Potter was kind of a cool guy though he killed innocent people” and “you did think the Zodiac’s case was interesting didn’t you that means you admire him” and “when you have been very angry you’ve wished you had a gun” and all this stuff just kept revolving around me. I know I don’t want to harm anyone but even the Zodiac Killer wrote that he didn’t want to kill those people but he couldn’t stop. —My favorite film character is Pinhead from Hellraiser, so don’t take your thoughts so seriously. You have OCD. It’s looking for a way to keep you doing compulsions. Because you are thankfully inconsistent in compulsing around the gay obsession, it’s trying Harm thoughts. Here’s some info: http://ocdspecialists.com/2013/06/jon-hershfield-mft-on-harm-ocd-part-one/. >>>>I didn’t sleep very well that night. The next day the anxiety was almost gone but came back when I realised that I might have said something else horrible. I got so afraid, what if I had told my friend I thought I was a lesbian? The thought made me feel sick, I didn’t want them to think I was because I’m not! But with these obsessive thoughts I honestly can’t trust myself anymore. My friends have been acting all normal after that friday night but I can’t stop thinking about the “what ifs”. I don’t want them to think I’m something I’m not, it’s hard enough to convince myself that these thoughts aren’t real. I don’t want to be with girls and I don’t want anyone to think I wanted but now I might have done the biggest mistake in my life and told lies about the most personal things about me. The most terrible thing about this whole thing is not knowing what I have said to them and was the killing stuff the only weird thing I said. —Fear of having said the wrong thing is a common obsession, enough that it’s listed on the standard assessment form for OCD (the YBOCS). >>>>I can’t take this uncertainty or the thought about me becoming a lesbian serial killer who doesn’t want to be either one but has no other choice than to accept them as a part of who she is. I don’t want to be her. Both fears are horrible but the gay ones are probably worse because they do not only feel more real but I also know that it would be so much easier to do or say something “gay” than to plan a perfect murder. —You should watch the movie Monster and tell yourself you’re exactly like Charlize Theron in that movie. The notion that you “can’t take” the uncertainty of your thoughts is a non-starter. There is no alternative. >>>>I’m also very sad about these thoughts taking over my interest in men. I’ve always had many celebrity crushes and men who I have always adored and dreamed of but now every time I see a picture of one of them my mind starts the “stop kidding yourself, you’d rather watch female pics” thing. I’ve begged for the voice to shut up but it never does. It’s taking away everything I used to enjoy and the worst thing is I don’t know if it is the disorder or my own will. —It sounds like prioritizing treatment of your OCD would be in your best interest at this time. K-Man January 10, 2014 at 1:09 am - Reply Hey Dr. Hershfield, my name’s Kieran and I’m 19 years old. I have a couple quick questions I was hoping you could give me an opinion on. I’ve basically diagnosed myself with HOCD and as you know, it can be VERY troubling. First off, here’s a little back story that might help… As long as I can remember I’ve always loved girls/women. But I’ve also had a problem with anxiety and OCD (Obsession with patterns, even numbers, hypo-condriact etc) Even before I knew what sex was I was always trying to talk to girls, tease them and get them to kiss and touch me. I always got an erection from there kisses and what not. Throughout middle school and high school all I thought about (pretty much) was girls. I always wanted to flirt and show off in front of them. I remember when I was 13 one of the pretty girls in my drama class had large breasts for our age group. I remember she had a low cut shirt one day and I thought “Oh my god!” I almost couldn’t control myself. I felt like if I didn’t masturbate I was going to explode! Luckily I had the will power to wait till the privacy of my room where I did the deed, my head filled with thoughts of that girl. That was one of the first sexual urges I remember. There were MANY other times where I would see a hot girl with a low shirt, tight pants, nice bum or anything I deemed to be sexy that would make me almost lose control. (Which I realize is normal for a young man) When I was 16 I had my first real girlfriend. After about 5 months of dating we had sex for the first time. After that I was seriously hooked. I remember just thinking about doing it with her and how “horny” it would make me. Thoughts of her always ended up with me masturbating. A couple times however through out school (once every couple years it seemed) I would see a man who seemed to be attractive. I would have these thoughts and quickly think to myself “Woah! That’s not me!” The strange intrusive thoughts would bother me for a week or two but I always seemed to forget about it and remember who I was. Me and that girl had a harsh break up and I was kind of depressed for a little while. However, after a few months I got over it and began dating again. There were lots of beautiful girls but nothing really clicked. The sexual urges continued for the girls I was dating but I never actually had sex with any of them. Then one day I met my current girlfriend, Sophie (who I am still happily dating to this day) We hit it off right away and fell in love only after a few months (too quickly for her parents liking!) Things were going great, we had sex after only a couple months and I truly loved her (and still do!) However this is where my HOCD got bad. After a couple weeks of long hard work (I’m a landscaper) the weekend rolled around and I wasn’t really in the sexual mood. It didn’t bother me at first until I started watching that TV show Breaking Bad. There was a clearly attractive male character on the show and I noticed it for some reason. This is when it started haunting me. I Put two and two together 1. I wasn’t in a sexy mood 2. I noticed an attractive male.. Am I gay?! It progressively got worse and I started doing all those things like obsessively checking my groin, doing rituals to “counter-act” all that. And then there were two incidents that have been haunting me for weeks now. One of them was my girlfriend and I were having a romantic evening (dinner date, bubble bath, wine.. etc) we were in her room getting ready for the bath. We took our clothes off and I stared at her and got an erection (obviously) and then sat down on her bed. She left to the bathroom to primp and fill the tub. As I sat there for about 10 mins my erection started to go down. For some reason I decided this was a good time for a “test” thought. I imagined what I decided was a gay image and thought about it. At first, nothing. I thought about it again. All of a sudden I felt this weird “shock” feeling and looked down and my penis went up slightly and then back down! This might seem like nothing but it freaked the hell out of me and ruined the rest of my night. The other incident was when me and my girlfriend were watching TV. A shirtless guy appeared on the screen. I didn’t think much of it but it kind of “jump started” my anxiety/OCD again. I stood up about 30 mins later to get a drink and quickly thought about the image. I got that same strange feeling and checked my groin. To my horror my penis felt slightly stiffer then normal. It might seem a little silly, but these are the incidents that have been driving me crazy! I love my girl so much, she makes me alive (and often horny) but I cant stop thinking that these events mean something. Sorry for such a long email, just wanted to ask for your opinion on the matter and see if you know what’s going on. I’m really looking forward to hearing what you have to say! Bye for now. Cheers, Kieran Jonathan Hershfield January 10, 2014 at 8:53 pm - Reply Hi Kieran, I read your story, but I’m not clear on what it is you are asking. You acknowledge that you have OCD and that you are doing compulsions and that compulsions are making things worse. The thing that seems to be the driving force behind your urge to check and test is the distorted idea that if something happens in your groin while noticing or thinking about men, that this must mean something. Is this penis-movement=gay theory supported by any evidence anywhere outside of your own mind? Does it carry more weight somehow than a person who thinks having a headache means they have a brain tumor? My advice is to stop testing and accept that you may have sexual responses to any number of things. What this says about your orientation is meaningless. You appear to be in a happy heterosexual relationship. It would be a shame to let something like the stiffness of your penis during some mindgame or the mere occasional presence of a certain sexual thought to ruin it. The only way to keep it from ruin is to stop doing compulsions and accept that things like these happen. It is not important to (or possible) to have certainty why. K-Man January 10, 2014 at 11:38 pm - Reply I feel ya, but when you say ” Is this penis-movement=gay theory supported by any evidence anywhere outside of your own mind?” what do you mean by outside of my own mind? Kieran Jonathan Hershfield January 11, 2014 at 4:53 pm - Reply I mean you came up with this idea on your own. You told yourself “If it moves or swells or tingles or whatever while I think gay stuff, that means I’m gay.” Where is the evidence that this is an actual true scientific statement? I’m male, I have the same equipment, and this thing moves, swells, tingles and does whatever about a thousand times a day regardless of what I’m thinking. Compulsions don’t work. Compulsive testing doesn’t work. K-Man January 11, 2014 at 8:50 pm I understand. This is very helpful! Thanks alot Jon. The only strange thing is I mean I could stare at gay pornography till I was blue in the face and never have any “movement” or “reaction” at all. But in the situations I mentioned the thoughts were split second images that “shocked my system” if you will. Is it possible that anxiety or a sudden unwanted thought could cause the movement I’ve described? Jonathan Hershfield January 18, 2014 at 7:35 pm You are missing the point. Your attempt to get certainty about what causes groinal sensations IS the compulsion that is fueling your obsession with your sexual orientation. Also, if you watch gay porn and your face turns blue, you’re doing it wrong. K-Man January 21, 2014 at 11:18 pm There was one other thing I wanted your opinion on. The other day my girl friend and I were having sex. In the middle of our session I had an intrusive gay thought and I swear that as I had the thought it felt like the thought was going to make me ejaculate quicker. It happened a second time during that session. I guess its possible that it was just bad timing or a “groinal” that just felt funny but its kind of been bothering me. After reading your replies to me and others I can probably guess what you’re going to say but I’d still like to hear your opinion. Cheers Jonathan Hershfield January 30, 2014 at 6:41 am If you try to keep it from happening, it will happen all the time. If you enjoy it, the OCD has nothing left to bully you with. In other words, stop caring what you think right before you orgasm. K-Man January 31, 2014 at 12:37 am So you’re saying DON’T force myself not to think about it then it wont intrude? Or at least won’t feel so intrusive. But doesn’t a gay image making me ejaculate quicker sound like evidence of homosexuality? Jonathan Hershfield January 31, 2014 at 10:42 pm >>>>So you’re saying DON’T force myself not to think about it then it wont intrude? Or at least won’t feel so intrusive. —Forcing yourself not to think of things is what makes them intrusive. It doesn’t work. It just sends the message to your brain that the thought is super important. >>>But doesn’t a gay image making me ejaculate quicker sound like evidence of homosexuality? —No, having sex with men does. K-Man January 31, 2014 at 11:39 pm Just wanted to say thanks for reading and replying to all my comments Jon! Cheers K-Man March 26, 2014 at 11:17 pm - Reply Hey Jon we messaged back an forth a few months ago. I’m pleased to say that I am doing much better with my OCD! I just had a quick question about something you said in your very first reply to me. You said “My advice is to stop testing and accept that you may have sexual responses to any number of things. What this says about your orientation is meaningless.” By that did you mean that if I were to have some sort of response to something (a thought, image, what ever) it doesn’t determine my orientation? Thanks again.. K Jonathan Hershfield April 2, 2014 at 4:22 am - Reply What it means is unknown. Assuming it determines orientation is just something you made up. Travmania January 10, 2014 at 6:58 pm - Reply Hey Jon, I have a problem with my OCD, it seems that I get to a state where I become comfortable with the thoughts and just let them pour in , accepting that I “could be gay” but after a day or two of almost having peace with the intrusive thoughts my mind starts to automatically “check” for reassurance, and compulsively does so with very little control. How do I make sure that the compulsions stop ? Jonathan Hershfield January 10, 2014 at 8:56 pm - Reply You’re not responsible for things you can’t control. This includes automatic mental reassurances as much as it includes unwanted intrusive thoughts. Simply notice that they are happening and don;t stop what you are doing to get certainty about what they mean. Your job is not to participate voluntarily in the checking and when you do, to stop and bring yourself back to the present moment. If checking happens anyway, so be it. Just don’t use the results as evidence. Mary January 11, 2014 at 2:56 pm - Reply Jon, this is a wonderful article! It helps a lot but my problem is that my hocd is convincing me that I like my friends….it generally does this to all my female friends but it is stronger with this person. It’s like she is the face of my hocd. I don’t understand. It’s like my mind keeps telling me “you like her” ..”You fancy her”..which I don’t understand because before the hocd I was friends with this person and never even thought about them that way…..in fact I NEVER thought of ANY of my female friends that way. But it feels soooo real. My brain keeps bringing up images of her in my head…and then tells me “You keep thinking about her therefore you like her” … I’m scared if I keep thinking about it I will start believing it to be true it will therefore prove I am gay/ bi sexual. How do I stop this??!! Also, since we are both doing a catwalk fashion show for my university, I am going to have to regularly see her in rehearsals…and I will also be surrounded by many other females. I’m soo scared I will just start liking her…or liking someone else This is freaky it feels soo real!! Help!! I also can’t stop thinking about a same- sex experience that I had at 14 years old. I used chatrooms a lot for some reason to talk to boys and to have ‘online boyfriends’ (sad, I know) There were times I would be curious and talk to girls online and then this one bi – girl who I made friends with who started chatting to me and sort of ‘came on’ to me online. At first it was sooo weird but then I started to have sexual conversations with her. I can’t remember how stimulating it was or anything about how we used to talk but I COMPLETELY forgot about that experience until now that this hocd kicked in (I’m 20 years old now) I even forgot about those ‘online boyfriends’…I never took anything I did at that time seriously. But ever since hocd kicked in and I started to find evidence to support it, my mind latched on to this experience. I keep crying and crying wondering why I did that …it must mean I’m gay or bi. It’s GLARING evidence right?? However despite all the chatrooms stuff In real life I was only attracted to males…crushes on guys not girls. I always dreamed of marrying my future husband, having kids etc I’ve been in 3 real life relationships with men and I have enjoyed sex with men. I never pictured myself with a woman. But now I feel hopeless…almost like I don’t even know who I am anymore. I used to avoid females but that had to stop since ALL my friends are female (so it got pretty lonely avoiding them) I just don’t know anymore. The more I try to tell myself I’m straight….the more my brain laughs at me and brings up the chatrooms stuff and then makes me believe I have a crush on my friend/friends. I used to be 100% confident in my sexuality now if I see a petty girl I just panic. I found that ever since this hocd I’ve just noticed girls more and more and more …it’s like everywhere I go, I’m just hyper aware of the presence of females. I’m recently trying to get back together with my boyfriend whom I love but my brain keeps telling me “stop kidding yourself you know your gay” it’s weird and I HATE IT. I’m scared I won’t like boys anymore and I will never have my dream wedding. I’d rather be alone than be with a girl, but then again my brain just laughs. It even uses the fact that I’m close to my female friends against me. It’s like it’s confusing my friendship love for them with emotional love. Some days I feel no anxiety but then my brain tells me “it’s because you like the thoughts” …this spikes no anxiety it just makes me sad. It feels like I’m gay and I hate it! Jonathan Hershfield January 11, 2014 at 5:05 pm - Reply >>>>Jon, this is a wonderful article! —Thanks! >>>>It helps a lot but my problem is that my hocd is convincing me that I like my friends….it generally does this to all my female friends but it is stronger with this person. It’s like she is the face of my hocd. —No, if you were convinced, you wouldn’t be posting a blog comment. You’re afraid. That’s different. >>>>I don’t understand. It’s like my mind keeps telling me “you like her” ..”You fancy her”..which I don’t understand because before the hocd I was friends with this person and never even thought about them that way…..in fact I NEVER thought of ANY of my female friends that way. —These are thoughts. When you start responding to thoughts like they’re threatening, they begin to feel like threats. >>>But it feels soooo real. My brain keeps bringing up images of her in my head…and then tells me “You keep thinking about her therefore you like her” … I’m scared if I keep thinking about it I will start believing it to be true it will therefore prove I am gay/ bi sexual. How do I stop this??!! —You have to stop trying to control your thoughts and accept them AS thoughts as they come and go. The idea that thinking about something a lot makes it come true is a common cognitive distortion called “magical thinking.” It is called that because it relies on magic to be true. >>>>Also, since we are both doing a catwalk fashion show for my university, I am going to have to regularly see her in rehearsals…and I will also be surrounded by many other females. I’m soo scared I will just start liking her…or liking someone else This is freaky it feels soo real!! Help!! —Tell yourself you like the thoughts and you can’t wait to break the news and gay it up with all your friends. You need to let the OCD know that you’re not afraid of having these thoughts. Only then will your brain stop presenting them as something to take seriously. >>>I also can’t stop thinking about a same- sex experience that I had at 14 years old. I used chatrooms a lot for some reason to talk to boys and to have ‘online boyfriends’ (sad, I know) There were times I would be curious and talk to girls online and then this one bi – girl who I made friends with who started chatting to me and sort of ‘came on’ to me online. At first it was sooo weird but then I started to have sexual conversations with her. I can’t remember how stimulating it was or anything about how we used to talk but I COMPLETELY forgot about that experience until now that this hocd kicked in (I’m 20 years old now) I even forgot about those ‘online boyfriends’…I never took anything I did at that time seriously. —You should tell yourself that experience was hot, you enjoyed it, and so be it. Again, the key is to stop relating to the thoughts like they are threatening to you. >>>But ever since hocd kicked in and I started to find evidence to support it, my mind latched on to this experience. I keep crying and crying wondering why I did that …it must mean I’m gay or bi. It’s GLARING evidence right?? —Thoughts and feelings are not evidence. The internet is also not evidence. We always find what we’re looking for. If you had health anxiety and a headache and started looking online for evidence that you had a brain tumor, that is what you would eventually find. Only when you stop looking for evidence, stop trying to prove things, accept thoughts and accept uncertainty, can you go back to being yourself. This may mean temporarily tolerating some discomfort. >>>>However despite all the chatrooms stuff In real life I was only attracted to males…crushes on guys not girls. I always dreamed of marrying my future husband, having kids etc I’ve been in 3 real life relationships with men and I have enjoyed sex with men. I never pictured myself with a woman. But now I feel hopeless…almost like I don’t even know who I am anymore. I used to avoid females but that had to stop since ALL my friends are female (so it got pretty lonely avoiding them) I just don’t know anymore. The more I try to tell myself I’m straight….the more my brain laughs at me and brings up the chatrooms stuff and then makes me believe I have a crush on my friend/friends. —Stop telling yourself you’re straight. Stop telling yourself anything and just live your life in pursuit of your values without taking your thoughts so seriously. Otherwise the OCD makes you its slave. >>>>I used to be 100% confident in my sexuality now if I see a petty girl I just panic. I found that ever since this hocd I’ve just noticed girls more and more and more …it’s like everywhere I go, I’m just hyper aware of the presence of females. —That’s what obsessions are like. You get tunnel vision and everything related to that obsession pops out at you. It’s the same effect as when we suffer a relationship breakup and all the songs on the radio suddenly become love songs. They were always love songs. >>>I’m recently trying to get back together with my boyfriend whom I love but my brain keeps telling me “stop kidding yourself you know your gay” it’s weird and I HATE IT. —Stop investing in your hatred of your mind and accept that this is just the way you think for now. Then pursue your bf anyway. >>>>I’m scared I won’t like boys anymore and I will never have my dream wedding. I’d rather be alone than be with a girl, but then again my brain just laughs. It even uses the fact that I’m close to my female friends against me. It’s like it’s confusing my friendship love for them with emotional love. Some days I feel no anxiety but then my brain tells me “it’s because you like the thoughts” …this spikes no anxiety it just makes me sad. It feels like I’m gay and I hate it! —-If you want to change the relationship you have with these thoughts, you have to change your behavior. This means changing your mental behavior. Right now your mental behavior is aimed and trying to suppress and neutralize thoughts as if they had the power to turn you into something you would both like (and paradoxically hate because you think you’re not supposed to like it). When you stop doing compulsions, you will stop fueling this obsession. Mary January 11, 2014 at 11:34 pm - Reply Jon, I am really trying to dismiss my thoughts and not feel threatened by them…but it is hard when the image of this girl keeps popping into my head. It is actually convincing me that I like her. It keeps saying “You like her”…”You are going to start having a crush on her”its messing with me! I know its not real but it FEELS real…and because my hocd has latched onto an individual, its harder to shake. Harder to deal with. How do you feel is best to deal with these false attractions? Jonathan Hershfield January 18, 2014 at 7:37 pm - Reply It sounds like what you are calling “dismissing” is a some attempt to suppress or neutralize the thought. HOCD often targets individuals, that is not unique. A better strategy than trying to make the thoughts ok is telling yourself “OK, maybe so…” and then going about your business. You need to stop trying to convince yourself you DON’T like this person sexually or else you will continue to be plagued by obsessive doubt about what you “really” feel. Scared January 14, 2014 at 4:04 pm - Reply Hi Jon, I believe I have been struggling with HOCD since I was a teen. The worst of it happened when there was a tragic loss in the family. My mind gathered, that if this person can die in such an untimely way then I must be a lesbian. Makes sense, right? I had worries about the possibility before the loss but never latched on to it obsessively. The worries stemmed from being aware that I was sexually aroused by seeing a woman naked. Up until then I was a head over heels boy crazy girl. Throughout life I have had countless crushes on, several relationships with and enjoyed sex with boys. The obsession would come up whenever there was a transition. In the process of trying to neutralize worries I wound up digging up more information to fuel the obsession. I learned that childhood gender non-conformity was a sign. Hooray! I was a huge tomboy growing up. I eventually felt uncomfortable about it believing that being boyish was a phase and was happier identifying with my girly side. However, that’s one more strike against me. This causes me to analyze all of my movements and behaviors. I judge the clothing I wear, the things I am interested to the point where I can’t tell who I am anymore. Then I learned about the finger ratio thing. This has become the biggest source of my pain. I have a very low digit ratio/ very long ring finger. I have spent countless hours researching the studies about how this points to me being exposed to more testosterone in the womb. Assuming that extra testosterone in females causes homosexuality, I now have physical proof that I must be a butch lesbian. I have seen guys come on the blog and express worries about the finger ratio studies. They are in luck since it seems like the rule only applies to women. How can that many studies finding a correlation between long ring ringers and lesbians be wrong? But if it were only just the loss of my heterosexual identity being on the line! I have to deal with feeling like I’m not really a woman and this kills me inside. I would rather be a feminine lesbian if I had to be one. But these finger studies have seemed to put a death sentence on my head. Everywhere I go I see what the studies confirmed; men have longer ring fingers just like me. I panic thinking about how much testosterone I was exposed to. I constantly check other people’s hands for proof. This is probably a compulsion. When I see women with the ideal even finger length I run to a private place and try to measure my fingers as if this time my ring finger won’t be as long as I feared. This is probably another compulsion. I can’t enjoy watching t.v because I will wind up seeing more hands confirming the studies. I am afraid to go online because there will be another study out confirming that I am gay. I feel absolutely crazy. In fits of desperation I have wanted to chop my finger off. I don’t know what to do. The groinal response/sexual arousal worries can be as bad. I have tested that to no end. Initial findings were that it was either disgusting, distressing or not something I wanted to do. My mind couldn’t accept this as an answer so I had to try to force myself to like the thoughts, in case I was in denial or have some sort of latent homosexuality. I still don’t like the thoughts but this obviously hasn’t helped as a compulsion because now I get intrusive thoughts and feelings like I am going to lose control over a same sex thought. It feels like I am going to have some sort of intrusive orgasm out of nowhere unless I check for sure. As for feelings about the opposite sex? They have become more threatening because they are wielding longer ring fingers. Every guy I see just confirms the threat. I am at a loss with what to do. I am sure you are very busy and I admire your taking the time to help people. I don’t know if I can be helped but this seems like the best place to reach out. Thank you for your time. Jonathan Hershfield January 18, 2014 at 8:04 pm - Reply >>>>I believe I have been struggling with HOCD since I was a teen. The worst of it happened when there was a tragic loss in the family. My mind gathered, that if this person can die in such an untimely way then I must be a lesbian. Makes sense, right? —No. But you knew I was going to say that. Sorry for your loss. It’s actually very common for ocd to commandeer grief instead of just letting you be. >>>>I had worries about the possibility before the loss but never latched on to it obsessively. The worries stemmed from being aware that I was sexually aroused by seeing a woman naked. Up until then I was a head over heels boy crazy girl. Throughout life I have had countless crushes on, several relationships with and enjoyed sex with boys. The obsession would come up whenever there was a transition. In the process of trying to neutralize worries I wound up digging up more information to fuel the obsession. I learned that childhood gender non-conformity was a sign. Hooray! I was a huge tomboy growing up. —I hear this from my clients with some regularity. I’m not sure how legitimate the supposed research is on this issue of gender non-conformity. Makes very little sense to me. My wife was a somewhat of a tomboy and my lesbian friend was not. Maybe they are exceptions or maybe I’m in denial. >>>>I eventually felt uncomfortable about it believing that being boyish was a phase and was happier identifying with my girly side. However, that’s one more strike against me. This causes me to analyze all of my movements and behaviors. I judge the clothing I wear, the things I am interested to the point where I can’t tell who I am anymore. —Right, so a lot of this has to do with a distorted belief forced down your throat by the culture you live in that sexual orientation and gender roles are somehow correlated. The science does not back this up, nor does common sense. >>>>Then I learned about the finger ratio thing. This has become the biggest source of my pain. I have a very low digit ratio/ very long ring finger. I have spent countless hours researching the studies about how this points to me being exposed to more testosterone in the womb. Assuming that extra testosterone in females causes homosexuality, I now have physical proof that I must be a butch lesbian. —What you have is a disputed series of studies that correlates testosterone levels in the womb (which cause the finger ratio variation) with adult attraction to feminine or masculine traits in people. I don’t see what this has to do with being gay overall other than the fact that some people are gay and some people who are gay find the same-sex traits of their same-sex partners attractive. Physical proof of you being a butch lesbian would be you living the lifestyle of a butch lesbian and telling everyone how awesome it is. Your concerns about your finger ratio say more about your OCD than anything else. >>>>I have seen guys come on the blog and express worries about the finger ratio studies. They are in luck since it seems like the rule only applies to women. How can that many studies finding a correlation between long ring ringers and lesbians be wrong? —You are not reading the studies correctly. The ratios correlate with statistical averages, not causes. A correlate is not a cause or defining feature. Let’s say people with your finger ration are 60% more likely to be lesbian than people with some other ration. How does that make you gay? >>>>But if it were only just the loss of my heterosexual identity being on the line! I have to deal with feeling like I’m not really a woman and this kills me inside. I would rather be a feminine lesbian if I had to be one. But these finger studies have seemed to put a death sentence on my head. —This is a choice you are making to avoid the discomfort of living your life the way you want and risking finding out somehow that you were wrong. >>>>Everywhere I go I see what the studies confirmed; men have longer ring fingers just like me. I panic thinking about how much testosterone I was exposed to. I constantly check other people’s hands for proof. This is probably a compulsion. —-Reading this blog is probably a compulsion. What you are doing is DEFINITELY a compulsion. More to the point, you have an obsession with your fingers in addition to an obsession with your identity. You need to do ERP to both. >>>>When I see women with the ideal even finger length I run to a private place and try to measure my fingers as if this time my ring finger won’t be as long as I feared. This is probably another compulsion. —Probably—->definitely. You will have to stop these behavior if you ever expect clarity about your thoughts and feelings. >>>>I can’t enjoy watching t.v because I will wind up seeing more hands confirming the studies. I am afraid to go online because there will be another study out confirming that I am gay. I feel absolutely crazy. In fits of desperation I have wanted to chop my finger off. I don’t know what to do. The groinal response/sexual arousal worries can be as bad. I have tested that to no end. Initial findings were that it was either disgusting, distressing or not something I wanted to do. My mind couldn’t accept this as an answer so I had to try to force myself to like the thoughts, in case I was in denial or have some sort of latent homosexuality. I still don’t like the thoughts but this obviously hasn’t helped as a compulsion because now I get intrusive thoughts and feelings like I am going to lose control over a same sex thought. It feels like I am going to have some sort of intrusive orgasm out of nowhere unless I check for sure. —These are all pretty common obsessive concerns and compulsive responses in HOCD. My recommendation is to use your deformed fingers to dial an ocd specialist. >>>>As for feelings about the opposite sex? They have become more threatening because they are wielding longer ring fingers. Every guy I see just confirms the threat. I am at a loss with what to do. I am sure you are very busy and I admire your taking the time to help people. I don’t know if I can be helped but this seems like the best place to reach out. Thank you for your time. —You can be helped, but your OCD has blossomed into some pretty impairing behavior, so there may be a lot of work ahead. You need CBT from an OCD specialist to help you formulate a plan for identifying and resisting the compulsions that are removing all of this value from your life. Time to get to work on the real issue here. Hint: it’s not your man-fingers. Richard January 22, 2014 at 6:12 pm - Reply Dr. Hershfield i am a 20 years old guy, i wrote you a while ago. I had another panic attack, i feel really depressed, i can’t even eat over the tought of being gay. My case is hard, because when i was younger i always tought of a bad memory where my cousin took advantage of me when i was a child. I spent my youth feeling down about it. But then the toughts of being gay were always haunting me, i spent my days thinking about this, i tought about sex with my friends to check if it was arousing. A week ago when i had a panic attack, the toughts began again, and i couldn’t sleep, i felt a sensation on my penis like i was horny all the time and felt compeled to think about gay stuff and check if was arousing, and it was sometimes which scares me more. I feel like sexuality is the foundation of a person, and i don’t know what is real anymore, i don’t if i’m still atracted to girls anymore, and if i’m repressing my true self. I started to feel a sensations of weekness around my butt, like i was asking for anal sex, even if i don’t want i feel like is what i have to do. At the same time i’m depressed, i can’t be with friends anymore because i don’t feel equal to them anymore. I’m really scared and think that all these years of checking really turned me gay. It’s like, when i have an erection over girls, i feel a light sensation, and a sudden joy in my heart, and when the erection is caused by thoughts or homossexual content, i feel like it’s a heavy feeling, like anguish. I thought so much about this that i don’t know what i like anymore, or if i like both genders. I can’t move on with my life, i was playing soccer and i can’t play anymore, i can’t think about other things. It’s really difficult and depressing at the same time, i’m scared that i turned, and i can’t be myself anymore. I would like to know your opinion, because i’m starting to feel traped, and like i don’t know what to do with my life anymore. Jonathan Hershfield January 31, 2014 at 6:11 am - Reply >>>>Dr. Hershfield i am a 20 years old guy, i wrote you a while ago. I had another panic attack, i feel really depressed, i can’t even eat over the tought of being gay. My case is hard, because when i was younger i always tought of a bad memory where my cousin took advantage of me when i was a child. I spent my youth feeling down about it. —This combination of childhood trauma, panic, anxiety and depression is the sort of thing you need to process with a professional. It’s a tough combo of symptoms that should be addressed. >>>>But then the toughts of being gay were always haunting me, i spent my days thinking about this, i tought about sex with my friends to check if it was arousing. —This checking is a common compulsion. >>>>A week ago when i had a panic attack, the toughts began again, and i couldn’t sleep, i felt a sensation on my penis like i was horny all the time and felt compeled to think about gay stuff and check if was arousing, and it was sometimes which scares me more. —This fear is based on a belief that if you experience arousal while checking, it must mean something. This is a belief, not a fact. >>>>I feel like sexuality is the foundation of a person, —That’s an interesting theory. >>>>and i don’t know what is real anymore, i don’t if i’m still atracted to girls anymore, and if i’m repressing my true self. I started to feel a sensations of weekness around my butt, like i was asking for anal sex, —I have to stop you there. The notion that gay people sit around waiting to have anal sex because their bodies are somehow biologically designed to prefer it over heterosexuals is nonsense. Asses are asses. It’s who you choose to connect with that matters. >>>>even if i don’t want i feel like is what i have to do. At the same time i’m depressed, i can’t be with friends anymore because i don’t feel equal to them anymore. I’m really scared and think that all these years of checking really turned me gay. —This is a theory, not something I imagine is possible, but not something you should try to prove. >>>>It’s like, when i have an erection over girls, i feel a light sensation, and a sudden joy in my heart, and when the erection is caused by thoughts or homossexual content, i feel like it’s a heavy feeling, like anguish. I thought so much about this that i don’t know what i like anymore, or if i like both genders. I can’t move on with my life, i was playing soccer and i can’t play anymore, i can’t think about other things. It’s really difficult and depressing at the same time, i’m scared that i turned, and i can’t be myself anymore. I would like to know your opinion, because i’m starting to feel traped, and like i don’t know what to do with my life anymore. —Well you’re right that all the mental review is keeping you from having any clarity and the more you try to figure it out, the murkier it all gets. My opinion is that you need to see a therapist asap, preferably someone who specializes in OCD, but at least someone who does CBT and has experience with depression. If the endgame is getting confidence in your identity back, this can only be achieved when the depression is lifted and the compulsions are ceased. alexandra January 27, 2014 at 7:37 pm - Reply hi .. i commented a while ago, back in july i think. I really need help, just a question. i know you will probably say this is just compulsions and not want to give answers but i am seeing a psychologist right now so i am gettign help i just need a new perspective .i honeslty need to know this because it is truly killing me, please dr. hershfield! can this ocd really make the thoughts feel real? like lately for a while now i have been obsessing over the thoughts of having “lesbian sex” im absolutly terrified when i think about it but its almost like im thinking i like it! i dont want to i dont like thinking that and i have so so so so soooo much anxiety while im obsessing over it. I keep thinking about it almost non stop, it just wont leave my head. every time i hear something or see anything sexual it makes it worse. Im so scared that i like the thought and want to actually have it! i do not want to be thinking any of this but it feels real and i hate it!! i keep going over senerios in my head to see if i liked it, and now it just happens without me trying to, it just does. When it happens my mind instantly goes “you like it! or you want it!” and i just feel that dread in my stomach and the feeling that i hate thinking this, all i can think is nononononono. but if feels so real sometimes, yet at the same time it almost doesn’t? i know that probably doesnt make any sense but its so scary. i keep looking online, i know i shouldn’t but i do and it does make it worse. I look on for people who have this same worry but i cant find many or i dont know 🙁 before i started worrying in april i knew i liked boys, i used to think about having sex with them (not all the time haha but i liked the thought ) i never ad a boyfriend but i read a lot of those online stories that are pretty much about sex.. and i got turned on by them. after i would think about a guy doing it to me..i liked that though i liked the though of regular sex but now all i can think about is this “lesbian sex” and i hate it!!!! but i keep thinking i like it but i don’t, and don’t want to …gaahhh 🙁 all i really want to know is can ocd really make you think you like it? but you don’t? every time i see or hear lesbian sex i instantly get anxiety but then my head goes “you like it” but gahhhh i just want to cry!! and i also keep getting these groinal responses, every time i think about it, its just instantly, or when i think about a girl any thing about it i instantly get a feeling but i hate it, its not okay like when i read those stories online before i started worrying, this is differen’t i hate it! i don’t want to be aroused by girls but every damn time i hear something or soemting pops into my head BAM it happens. i was online and a girl said she knew she was gay when she saw a girl bouncing up and down and her boobs were shaking etc. now i have that mental thought in my head and every single time i think about it i instantly get that groinal feeling but i hate it!! i have anxiety the whole time as well, its like a jolt the minute i think about whatever it is or see whatever it is. my mom says its okay to think girls look good it means nothing and i try to take that when im worrying thinking maybe thats it but im still worried im gay and that i like all these thoughts even though i feel so much anxiety 🙁 is this part of the ocd as well? can this do this to me and it not actually be real? i know i have been diagnosed my a couple different doctors but these thought can feel so real and its so scary its hard to believe them . i feel like i dont get some answers when i ask them :s please help, i just need to know all i know is i am not okay with these thoughts even though my mind is going “you like them” im just not okay with thinking that. i know my mom says that if i truly liked it then i would be okay with it i would be comfortable with it and because im not it just shows that its not true, would you agree with her? Jonathan Hershfield January 31, 2014 at 10:33 pm - Reply >>>>hi .. i commented a while ago, back in july i think. I really need help, just a question. i know you will probably say this is just compulsions— —-This is just compulsions. >>> and not want to give answers but i am seeing a psychologist right now so i am gettign help i just need a new perspective .i honeslty need to know this because it is truly killing me, please dr. hershfield! can this ocd really make the thoughts feel real? —The concept of something “feeling real” is actually just another thought about whatever experience you are having. I think most people experience anxiety in the form of “feeling like something is really wrong.” The degree to which their insight remains intact may determine whether that leads to a belief that their anxiety is really bad or there really is something wrong. In other words, feeling something is real does indicate how real something is, but it is a common way for OCD sufferers to experience feelings anyway. >>>>like lately for a while now i have been obsessing over the thoughts of having “lesbian sex” im absolutly terrified when i think about it but its almost like im thinking i like it! —Aside from not being gay, what is there not to like? This idea that you are supposed to actively dislike it to prove your sexuality is part of your ocd. >>>>i dont want to i dont like thinking that and i have so so so so soooo much anxiety while im obsessing over it. I keep thinking about it almost non stop, it just wont leave my head. —If I got this much attention just for being in your head, I wouldn’t leave either. >>>>every time i hear something or see anything sexual it makes it worse. Im so scared that i like the thought and want to actually have it! i do not want to be thinking any of this but it feels real and i hate it!! i keep going over senerios in my head to see if i liked it, and now it just happens without me trying to, it just does. When it happens my mind instantly goes “you like it! or you want it!” and i just feel that dread in my stomach and the feeling that i hate thinking this, all i can think is nononononono. but if feels so real sometimes, yet at the same time it almost doesn’t? i know that probably doesnt make any sense but its so scary. —You are doing testing compulsions. You can’t expect compulsions to make things less confusing. The part that makes the least sense is the belief that the idea of “liking” a thing should be something to fear. I like the feeling of wind in my hair, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to jump out the window. >>>>i keep looking online, i know i shouldn’t but i do and it does make it worse. I look on for people who have this same worry but i cant find many or i dont know 🙁 —What does your therapist suggest you do about these behavioral choices you are making? >>>>before i started worrying in april i knew i liked boys, i used to think about having sex with them (not all the time haha but i liked the thought ) i never ad a boyfriend but i read a lot of those online stories that are pretty much about sex.. and i got turned on by them. after i would think about a guy doing it to me..i liked that though i liked the though of regular sex but now all i can think about is this “lesbian sex” and i hate it!!!! but i keep thinking i like it but i don’t, and don’t want to …gaahhh 🙁 —-Trying not to like it is making it more intrusive and distorted in your mind. It’s irrelevant whether you like or dislike thinking about something. Your identity and sense of self correlates to what you choose to do with your life, not what you think or feel. >>>>all i really want to know is can ocd really make you think you like it? but you don’t? —-Compulsions make your obsessions worse. Bad obsessions make it hard to feel certain about anything. >>>>every time i see or hear lesbian sex i instantly get anxiety but then my head goes “you like it” but gahhhh i just want to cry!! —Better to agree with the thoughts or at least say “maybe so” and then go back to work. >>>>and i also keep getting these groinal responses, every time i think about it, its just instantly, or when i think about a girl any thing about it i instantly get a feeling but i hate it, its not okay like when i read those stories online before i started worrying, this is differen’t i hate it! i don’t want to be aroused by girls but every damn time i hear something or soemting pops into my head BAM it happens. —The more you try not to feel that way, the more you are going to feel that way. Change the behavior, change the experience. >>>i was online and a girl said she knew she was gay when she saw a girl bouncing up and down and her boobs were shaking etc. now i have that mental thought in my head and every single time i think about it i instantly get that groinal feeling but i hate it!! i have anxiety the whole time as well, its like a jolt the minute i think about whatever it is or see whatever it is. my mom says its okay to think girls look good it means nothing and i try to take that when im worrying thinking maybe thats it but im still worried im gay and that i like all these thoughts even though i feel so much anxiety 🙁 is this part of the ocd as well? can this do this to me and it not actually be real? —You mentioned seeing a psychologist. What are you guys actually working on if these questions are not already being addressed? >>>>i know i have been diagnosed my a couple different doctors but these thought can feel so real and its so scary its hard to believe them . i feel like i dont get some answers when i ask them :s please help, i just need to know all i know is i am not okay with these thoughts even though my mind is going “you like them” im just not okay with thinking that. i know my mom says that if i truly liked it then i would be okay with it i would be comfortable with it and because im not it just shows that its not true, would you agree with her? —-Feelings aren’t facts. So something feeling real is not evidence of its reality. But what definitely IS real is that your attempts to prove that you are not gay are making you obsess about your sexual orientation. Trying to prove you don’t like women sexually is the wrong approach. Until you stop doing compulsions, this will continue to be an overwhelming problem for you. The time to take your diagnosis seriously and start doing ERP is now. Harry February 14, 2014 at 12:35 am - Reply Hi Jonathon, ‘ I am 19 years old almost twenty, this is my story. I never had gay thoughts my entire life, loved gay people, and never worried about being gay. Then my sophomore year of college, I started to think about college sex id had and how they had been bad experiences. I had had a lot of sex with my ex girlfriend in high school and loved all of it. In college I had been really into girls but only had good sex once and most interests didn’t work out. I started to worry about it and the thought has grabbed a hold of me. I never noticed a guy before, but once i started worrying about it, I thought, “well you’ve never considered it, so why wouldn’t you be?”. I got very worried and went online and started checking by looking at naked men (i had seen naked men before in gyms and things and never noticed any attraction). Now when I look at a guys abs and chest I get a weird feeling in my penis and feel bad and anxious. I have looked at gay porn and felt very nervous and thought I ve felt something but never gotten hard. Sometimes I feel i am almost over it, but I feel like there is a chance I am overlooking some side of me. The other day I was in a bad state of worrying, and I was checking, so I masterbated without looking at anything and just quick mental images. I even masterbated thinking of nothing for a little to test myself. While I was masterbating I forced myself to picture a guy, though I didn’t really have a good image, and I didn’t notice any change in my penis, then I thought of a girl and came. But again I’m not sure what any of it means. I am ashamed because I feel like I went from being totally confident in my sexuality to no confidence. I had steady sex with my exgirlfriend as recently as this past summer. Also, socially, I see guys, and don’t think their cute like girls, but I feel weird around them and not confident that I’m not attracted. Jonathan Hershfield February 16, 2014 at 6:27 pm - Reply >>>>Hi Jonathon, ‘ I am 19 years old almost twenty, this is my story. I never had gay thoughts my entire life, loved gay people, and never worried about being gay. Then my sophomore year of college, I started to think about college sex id had and how they had been bad experiences. I had had a lot of sex with my ex girlfriend in high school and loved all of it. In college I had been really into girls but only had good sex once and most interests didn’t work out. —It sounds like there is some distorted black-and-white thinking and perhaps some unrealistic expectations about the quality and consistency of the quality of sexual interactions in life. >>>I started to worry about it and the thought has grabbed a hold of me. I never noticed a guy before, but once i started worrying about it, I thought, “well you’ve never considered it, so why wouldn’t you be?”. I got very worried and went online and started checking by looking at naked men (i had seen naked men before in gyms and things and never noticed any attraction). Now when I look at a guys abs and chest I get a weird feeling in my penis and feel bad and anxious. —Many people with OCD start trapping themselves in a loop by doing this very same compulsion, checking and testing. Incidentally, if you did the same behavior with horses, looking at equestrian pics and then hyper-focusing on your penis, guess what would happen. Fortunately the presence or absence of responses in the groin is irrelevant to the subject of one’s sexual identity. But to move past the obsession, you have to accept uncertainty and stop testing. >>>I have looked at gay porn and felt very nervous and thought I ve felt something but never gotten hard. Sometimes I feel i am almost over it, but I feel like there is a chance I am overlooking some side of me. —There is an assumption here that if you were overlooking some part of you, that this is particularly important. Where is the evidence that suggests it is necessary to explore, investigate, and obtain certainty about all aspects of your existence? This is a problem called catastrophzing. Because you have established a philosophical position that having overlooked some “gay” part of you would be unacceptable, you are driven to do compulsions to prove you are not gay. This is what fuels the obsession in the first place. >>>The other day I was in a bad state of worrying, and I was checking, so I masterbated without looking at anything and just quick mental images. I even masterbated thinking of nothing for a little to test myself. While I was masterbating I forced myself to picture a guy, though I didn’t really have a good image, and I didn’t notice any change in my penis, then I thought of a girl and came. But again I’m not sure what any of it means. I am ashamed because I feel like I went from being totally confident in my sexuality to no confidence. I had steady sex with my exgirlfriend as recently as this past summer. —Stop the compulsive testing and you’re sense of self will return. But it means temporarily having to cope with some discomfort over the subject of uncertainty. >>>Also, socially, I see guys, and don’t think their cute like girls, but I feel weird around them and not confident that I’m not attracted. —Tell yourself you may be attracted then. Where is the threat? Is it the idea that if you had any attraction to any man at any time tat would mean you are suddenly a homosexual? Why? Where is this supported by evidence? Travmania February 14, 2014 at 3:21 pm - Reply Hey Jon, I have a question in regards of this form of ocd and potentially others. As we all know dopamine is high in those whom have OCD. What I’ve also learned is that addiction (even ones we as a society don’t dub as an addictive trait) show signs of higher dopamine and the need for it , thus it being an addiction. I wonder if people with this particular form, have porn/masturbation/sex addictions.. as it seems to be a common thread in forums such as the “fapstronauts” on reddit. Where their goal in treating porn induced HOCD was to quit porn, and masturbating (which is considered hard mode if you do BOTH. One would have to do this for 90 days or more, but to also stay away from temptation in regards of film, internet, porn, video games, and anything potentially addictive like certain foods , drinks, etc. I was wondering what your thoughts on this was.. and by if getting rid of addictions in ones life would it then by theory reduce the dopamine to a base line thus have the OCD subside? Jonathan Hershfield February 17, 2014 at 1:41 am - Reply >>>>Hey Jon, I have a question in regards of this form of ocd and potentially others. As we all know dopamine is high in those whom have OCD. —This is not really an accurate statement. What we know is that people who are resistant to selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (ssri’s) sometimes benefit from augmenting with atypical antipsychotics, which act as dopamine antagonists. Interestingly, there is some research suggesting that dopamine agonists may also improve aspects of OCD. In other words, we know that dopamine is somehow involved in the experience of OCD, but it is far more complex than having too much of it. The same is true, by the way, of serotonin, wherein the problem seems to be one of transmission effectiveness, not amounts. Then there’s glutamate, another neurotransmitter that research is showing may be particularly important in the disorder. >>>What I’ve also learned is that addiction (even ones we as a society don’t dub as an addictive trait) show signs of higher dopamine and the need for it , thus it being an addiction. –Addiction and OCD are separate clinical issues, though they do at times coincide. Dopamine clearly does play a role in addictive behavior. >>>I wonder if people with this particular form, have porn/masturbation/sex addictions.. as it seems to be a common thread in forums such as the “fapstronauts” on reddit. —Yes, someone from that site was recently trying to spam us with comments on this blog using a lot of cursing and shaming language about what fools HOCD are for all being porn addicts. (nothing against the site itself, I’m not familiar with it really) Interestingly, I would say maybe less than half of the people I have treated with this form of OCD come anywhere close to what a reasonable person would identify as a “porn addict” and many of them don’t view pornography at all. What you do see in those who are using pornography regularly is a tendency to use it as a form of checking or self-reassurance compulsion. This group of people may also be more likely to write to online forums because so much of their experience is tied up in seeking reassurance on the computer in a variety of ways. So some clearly have an obsession as a function of sexual addiction/porn addiction, but certainly not all. >>>>Where their goal in treating porn induced HOCD was to quit porn, and masturbating (which is considered hard mode if you do BOTH. One would have to do this for 90 days or more, but to also stay away from temptation in regards of film, internet, porn, video games, and anything potentially addictive like certain foods , drinks, etc. —I definitely think if someone is addicted to porn and/or if they are using porn as a form of testing their sexual orientation, then abstinence from pornography in the short-term is an important part of HOCD treatment. Long-term it really depends on the individual and whether or not there is really an addiction issue at play. Regarding avoidance of temptation, that’s a bit murkier. Avoidance in some instances only sends the message to the brain that the thing being avoided is particularly important. So if there is compulsive use of pornography but no addiction, only OCD, I would probably encourage a hiatus from porn use, but no avoidance of triggering materials they might otherwise encounter. >>>I was wondering what your thoughts on this was.. and by if getting rid of addictions in ones life would it then by theory reduce the dopamine to a base line thus have the OCD subside? —I think the relationship between dopamine, addiction, and OCD is complex and there is no easy answer for this. I do believe that if a person has an addiction (whether it is to porn, drugs, or anything else), that addiction will probably impair OCD treatment until properly treated itself. But I don’t think the elimination of an addiction will necessarily result in the elimination of OCD because there is just more going on there. Andrea February 15, 2014 at 1:36 pm - Reply Hi Dr Hershfield, I’m a female and i’m 20 years old. I think that I always had OCD but didn’t know that was called OCD. I use to get obsessed with thoughts and they torture me a lot. Last year when I got in college I struggle for almost 6 months with obsessions about my health , I thought I had all kind of diseases was horrible, but I got better, then I started to get obsessed about my relationship, and now i think im struggling with HOCD.I’m in a relationship with a guy for almost 5 years and I always liked guys and been in relationships with guys. So I was in college studying with my friends and my friend said something and i thought “maybe she’s a lesbian” and then I don’t know why started thinking ” what if i am? ” “omg could I be?” Started freaking out , became to be affraid of my friend because I was affraid that I could fall in love with her even knowing that I like boys and I still love my boyfriend. Was break from college to study for the final exams and I was like always seeing if I was attracted to women , and I didn’t watch TV, didn’t leave home. But then I started to get better because I try to stop the checking and all was good until college started again, I started to freak out because I was going to see my friend again and I tried not obsess about it but i got totally obsessed. Now her face keeps popping in my head and it gives me great anxiety and I feel really bad, I lost weight and I’m always stressed. I keep thinking why am i seeing her face in my head does this mean i’m a lesbian and i’m like in love with her ? But i’m not even attracted to her and I don’t want a romantic thing with her at all and also I love my boyfriend, it feels like I have a battle in my brain , it’s like I know i’m not a lesbian but my brain trys to tell me otherwise. Do you think is OCD? Jonathan Hershfield February 23, 2014 at 2:59 pm - Reply Andrea, I can’t diagnose you from a blog comment, but I can say this — you start your comment by describing yourself historically being tortured by a number of obsessions and engaging in various checking, reviewing, and analyzing compulsions. You end your comment describing the presence of an obsession and a series of compulsive responses to it. You should probably spend some time looking at the fact that you have obsessions and compulsions that are bringing disorder to your life and why you are asking if it’s OCD instead of treating it like it probably is. John February 21, 2014 at 8:57 am - Reply Hi there. Before I leave a message, I’d like to say you’re a good guy for monitoring this thread so diligently. I feel a bit cheap leaving a message here – but some mornings I feel very down with this issue and it would probably help if the conversation wasn’t just me and my mind for once. I am a freelance writer from the UK. I am 21 years old and I have suffered from anxiety for few years now. In 2011, my parents both fell very ill around the same time of separate issues. Shortly after, I developed a fear/suspicion I had cancer, or some kind of growing feeling that cancer was inevitable. This very quickly became an obsession and I developed a complex so bad that I eventually began suffering panic attacks and had to be medicated. Though for the most part, I am over this, I have started with the issue you describe above. It’s probably the worst feeling I’ve ever had. I left a relationship of four years and was very upset for a short time, in which period my health anxiety returned. I was a little overwhelmed, and am ashamed to say that on one particular morning I was strongly compelled to destroy myself. I got over that when I met someone new, and the first six months I spent with her were among the happiest of my life. Then, from out of seemingly nowhere, I began to start telling myself, in the same voice I used to tell myself I had a brain tumour, that I was secretly gay. This feeling persisted for a while until it started to take a physical toll in the bedroom. For a while I couldn’t last very long at all, and then I stopped being able to finish at all sometimes. Even though occasionally this made sense, I still found myself getting very upset when this presented itself physically. –I started to question every erection, and even started looking back on my life and judging myself. I’d ask myself, ‘What if I was friends with that guy that was gay because subconsciously, I knew?’. ‘What if I used to be nervous around women because I was gay?’ –If I saw a friend of mine I knew to be homosexual in the street, or saw their activity on a social networking site, I would become anxious. –I would sometimes become anxious before sexual activity. I’ve never had difficulty getting aroused with my partner, but sometimes I lose sensation during sex. –Much like when I had health anxiety, I started with a ritual of behaviours designed to stop my anxiety, such as a compulsive masturbating to straight porn to ‘prove my sexuality’, repeating comforting phrases, checking myself physically for arousal when I see men – I even started deliberately acting more masculine than I usually would. –Throughout my adolescence and today, I have been an avid user of internet porn. I don’t know if I would call it an addiction, though I have tried several times to stop and failed. I am currently trying to quit using it, as I have some sort of ill-defined belief it will help stop my issues. –I have begun trawling websites for reassurance in my worst bouts of anxiety, just like when I thought I was sick. More often than not, this feeds into a worse feeling of anxiety. Overall, the worst part about all of this is the threat it puts my life under. The girl I am with now is my dream woman, She is everything to me, and I have begun to constantly fear she is going to find out about this issue and I’m terrified of hurting her. I’ve started to see myself as that guy from the movies who was gay when he was young but had kids anyway and just has this awful family life. I have days when I am convinced I am straight, and that the obsession I have with this is absurd, and other days when I think it’s more than an obsession, it’s the truth. I am losing a sense of who I am as a person, and feel as though the identity i was comfortable with has been swept away from me. I don’t know why I left this message, but last time I started talking about the issue I started to feel much better. So hopefully this will help Jonathan Hershfield February 23, 2014 at 3:19 pm - Reply >>>>Hi there. Before I leave a message, I’d like to say you’re a good guy for monitoring this thread so diligently. —Thanks! >>>I feel a bit cheap leaving a message here – but some mornings I feel very down with this issue and it would probably help if the conversation wasn’t just me and my mind for once. I am a freelance writer from the UK. I am 21 years old and I have suffered from anxiety for few years now. In 2011, my parents both fell very ill around the same time of separate issues. Shortly after, I developed a fear/suspicion I had cancer, or some kind of growing feeling that cancer was inevitable. This very quickly became an obsession and I developed a complex so bad that I eventually began suffering panic attacks and had to be medicated. Though for the most part, I am over this, I have started with the issue you describe above. —-Sorry to hear about what happened to your parents, that must have been traumatic for you. I’m not sure what the connection is or if there is any research backing this, but it seems many HOCD sufferers I have encountered have previously had a terrible bout of health anxiety. >>>It’s probably the worst feeling I’ve ever had. I left a relationship of four years and was very upset for a short time, in which period my health anxiety returned. I was a little overwhelmed, and am ashamed to say that on one particular morning I was strongly compelled to destroy myself. I got over that when I met someone new, and the first six months I spent with her were among the happiest of my life. Then, from out of seemingly nowhere, I began to start telling myself, in the same voice I used to tell myself I had a brain tumour, that I was secretly gay. —It’s good that you are aware of the sameness in the “voice” of your OCD. You can use that to help yourself be more mindful of your unwanted thoughts and take them less seriously. >>>This feeling persisted for a while until it started to take a physical toll in the bedroom. For a while I couldn’t last very long at all, and then I stopped being able to finish at all sometimes. Even though occasionally this made sense, I still found myself getting very upset when this presented itself physically. –I started to question every erection, and even started looking back on my life and judging myself. I’d ask myself, ‘What if I was friends with that guy that was gay because subconsciously, I knew?’. ‘What if I used to be nervous around women because I was gay?’ –If I saw a friend of mine I knew to be homosexual in the street, or saw their activity on a social networking site, I would become anxious. –I would sometimes become anxious before sexual activity. I’ve never had difficulty getting aroused with my partner, but sometimes I lose sensation during sex. –Much like when I had health anxiety, I started with a ritual of behaviours designed to stop my anxiety, such as a compulsive masturbating to straight porn to ‘prove my sexuality’, repeating comforting phrases, checking myself physically for arousal when I see men – I even started deliberately acting more masculine than I usually would. —These are all common compulsions in the disorder that would have to be identified and stopped in order for your obsession to dissipate. >>>–Throughout my adolescence and today, I have been an avid user of internet porn. I don’t know if I would call it an addiction, though I have tried several times to stop and failed. I am currently trying to quit using it, as I have some sort of ill-defined belief it will help stop my issues. —It’s likely that these issues are related and separate at the same time. In other words, the excessive use of pornography may be driving your obsession with what happens in your groin and/or may be providing compulsive reassurance about your orientation. You may also be “addicted” to the stimulation you get from pornography. Probably the best thing to do at the start of treating the OCD (or the addiction) is at the very least take a hiatus from all porn use. If at some point you are able to return to using it as a healthy expression of self-pleasure, then fine. If it becomes problematic, you may benefit from treating it more like an addiction, which may include some specialized therapy. >>>–I have begun trawling websites for reassurance in my worst bouts of anxiety, just like when I thought I was sick. More often than not, this feeds into a worse feeling of anxiety. —As do all compulsions. >>>Overall, the worst part about all of this is the threat it puts my life under. The girl I am with now is my dream woman, She is everything to me, and I have begun to constantly fear she is going to find out about this issue and I’m terrified of hurting her. I’ve started to see myself as that guy from the movies who was gay when he was young but had kids anyway and just has this awful family life. I have days when I am convinced I am straight, and that the obsession I have with this is absurd, and other days when I think it’s more than an obsession, it’s the truth. I am losing a sense of who I am as a person, and feel as though the identity i was comfortable with has been swept away from me. I don’t know why I left this message, but last time I started talking about the issue I started to feel much better. So hopefully this will help —-Sounds like you found someone you really care about. I encourage you to use that as motivation to take your OCD more seriously, get CBT from an OCD specialist, stop doing compulsions, and go face to face with your fear on the off-chance that you may come out the other end happy and present in your relationship. John March 4, 2014 at 11:20 pm - Reply Thanks for your response Jon. I realised after I posted that hadn’t really asked any questions, sorry if I was a bit furtive. I considered seeking help from a CBT specialist when I had health anxiety, but ultimately never did. I have an underlying fear that I’ll come across an individual who will dismiss my fears and try and force me to come to a conclusion – absurd as it sounds. I do however understand that the heart of the matter is not to label yourself one way or another, but to eliminate the cynical thought processes and physical compulsions I hope you wouldn’t mind fielding another couple of questions I had about HOCD. Do you find that there is a stigma attached to HOCD in the medical community? I feel like certain institutions such as the NHS avoid discussion of it. Why do you think this could be? I often find myself back at square one. I have perhaps a week where I am calm and unassailed by my anxieties, and then something just clicks and I’m back where I started. Is this cyclical nature something that presents in OCD? I’ve never been formally diagnosed with OCD. Is CBT something that deals with physical compulsions as actively as it does mental ones? I’ve taken to tugging at my hair and I’m worried I’m going to end up with bald spots. I’ve read your article on denial and it filled a lot of gaps in my understanding of what we’re discussing here, particularly in regard to HOCD’s effect on existing relationships. I recommend it to anybody reading this far down the page. Finally, I know most of my questions are the sort of thing you could Google, it’s just nice to talk to another human about something that normally makes me feel really guilty. Take it easy. Jonathan Hershfield March 7, 2014 at 6:29 pm - Reply >>>>Thanks for your response Jon. I realised after I posted that hadn’t really asked any questions, sorry if I was a bit furtive. I considered seeking help from a CBT specialist when I had health anxiety, but ultimately never did. I have an underlying fear that I’ll come across an individual who will dismiss my fears and try and force me to come to a conclusion – absurd as it sounds. —-This is a common fear and, like most fears, not entirely irrational. It is the response to the fear that is problematic. If you saw a specialist who for one reason or another approached your situation from an angle you did not agree with, you are assuming that this would mean the therapist is right and you are wrong or that this would mean some terrible thing is going to happen to you, so you avoid getting help. A more rational response to this fear would be to go see a therapist and deal with whatever unwanted consequences could occur if/when they are actually occurring. >>>>I do however understand that the heart of the matter is not to label yourself one way or another, but to eliminate the cynical thought processes and physical compulsions I hope you wouldn’t mind fielding another couple of questions I had about HOCD. Do you find that there is a stigma attached to HOCD in the medical community? I feel like certain institutions such as the NHS avoid discussion of it. Why do you think this could be? —Sort of. There are a few issues to consider. First, it is true that many therapists are psychodynamically trained, which means they are trained to consider that the problem should not be approached from an evidence-based angle, but a more subconscious or insight-oriented angle. Though this may be useful for matters of relationship or self-awareness issues, it is not really treatment for mental illness, which OCD is. So it becomes more challenging for OCD sufferers to locate actual OCD specialists. That’s why we have great organizations like the International OCD Foundation. On the subject of HOCD specifically, the notion that the presence of thoughts about orientation inherently mean “something” seems to be a preferred approach by psychodynamically trained therapists, so this contributes to a kind of stigma about “gay OCD” not being like “real OCD” which is nonsense. Along these lines, sufferers and treatment providers alike make the mistake of promoting HOCD as a separate clinical issue from the rest of OCD when it is not, further contributing to a lot of unnecessary debate and ultimately a form of stigma within and without the OCD community. >>>I often find myself back at square one. I have perhaps a week where I am calm and unassailed by my anxieties, and then something just clicks and I’m back where I started. Is this cyclical nature something that presents in OCD? I’ve never been formally diagnosed with OCD. –The first thing an OCD specialist would discuss with you in treatment is called “The Obsessive-Compulsive Cycle.” That should answer your question. >>>Is CBT something that deals with physical compulsions as actively as it does mental ones? ——An OCD specialist would, but someone less trained in treating OCD may overlook it. >>>>I’ve taken to tugging at my hair and I’m worried I’m going to end up with bald spots. —This is a symptom of trichotillomania, which is a separate disorder but often presents alongside OCD. The pulling is part compulsion, part habit, and can be addressed with CBT and something called Habit Reversal Therapy. >>>I’ve read your article on denial and it filled a lot of gaps in my understanding of what we’re discussing here, particularly in regard to HOCD’s effect on existing relationships. I recommend it to anybody reading this far down the page. Finally, I know most of my questions are the sort of thing you could Google, it’s just nice to talk to another human about something that normally makes me feel really guilty. Take it easy. —Thanks for the plug! 😉 Let me know if you want help locating a specialist in your area, maybe I know someone. Travmania March 7, 2014 at 1:00 am - Reply Hey Jon, I have a question regarding this.. is it possible for OCD to shift onto something new but familiar , as now I’m obsessed that I’m turning into a trans or becoming one… just after getting over HOCD, I end up with this because I saw a video on youtube by this guy sotomayor who is funny as hell , but started talking about his belief of why he thinks trans people become who they are (Lack of a father, powerful mother who uses her sexuality for gains and talks down to guys/etc). So I thought in my head.. yeah , women are powerful they could use there sexuality for anything in this sexually exploited world of ours… and then anxiety started to form, and a thought came saying “do you want to be one”? so now it seems I have something new … why is this happening? Jonathan Hershfield March 7, 2014 at 8:15 pm - Reply Part of the reason it happens is that you start telling yourself this is something new. In HOCD you had a fear that you would want to become something that you don’t believe yourself to identify with. In your fear of becoming or being trans, you are obsessing about whether you would want to become something that you don’t believe yourself to identify with. In short, you need to do exposure to this obsession the same way. Travmania March 8, 2014 at 10:31 pm - Reply How do I do proper exposure with that.. as I can’t afford a therapist that specializes in OCD as my old therapist always went on with talk therapy.. asking about what my mother and father were like with me growing up (making me feel as if he was aiming for a different outcome). Jonathan Hershfield March 16, 2014 at 4:31 am - Reply Travmania, if you can’t access treatment with an ocd specialist, the next best option would be to use a workbook like Freedom From Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, or The Mindfulness Workbook for OCD. If your fear is that you would become trans, the ERP would be a reduction/elimination of any avoidance behaviors you are engaging in, imaginal scripting about your fears, and possibly visual exposures to trans imagery paired with resisting the urge to reassure yourself. In short, ceasing all efforts to convince yourself your fears won’t come true, same as with fear of becoming gay or anything else. If you have a therapist who just doesn’t know how to treat OCD, you might encourage them to read about it and help you. Liz March 15, 2014 at 9:38 pm - Reply I have struggle with these thoughts of being guy bi. For a while and it’s nice to know that is product of my thinking I’m able to realize that I don’t have to believe my thoughts all the Time I just hope to get the help I need I’m married with children and I get depressed a lot about this issue it’s hard but this blog was able to put a new perspective on it without any shame. It’s nice to feel understood. thank you !!! Jonathan Hershfield March 16, 2014 at 4:58 am - Reply Thanks for the comment, Liz. Happy the article was helpful. I hope you seek out treatment for your depression and ocd, learn to be more mindful of what goes on in your head, so it doesn’t get in the way of enjoying your family. Adam F March 18, 2014 at 10:39 pm - Reply Dear Jon, I’ve decided to write a reply realising that you have been commenting recently and would really appreciate some feedback. I’m 26 years old from the UK and have been suffering from this for about a month, I’m not sure why it came about but I guess I have had a lot of issues in my life and for some reason its manifested itself in this way. I’ve been suffering from anxiety since my teens and have a fear of going out and etc which has been up and down over the last 10 years and I guess have a general lack of confidence in myself. I’ve tried private therapy a couple times, but can’t really afford it so am looking into free CBT with the NHS here in the UK. She mentioned a couple things such as saying how thinking about another man is like a mirror of myself and related that to lack of love for myself which I think makes some sense, a lot of pornography throughout my life has made me feel inadequate and self concious. She mentioned also that my feeling of being rejected by women has caused it to think of men as an ‘unwanted solution’. I’ve been using affirmations everyday to help feel better about myself and I’ve been taking Inositol which I read can help with ocd, but its like I have this revolving image of a penis which sort of resembles my own that is like trying to be forced in my mouth and to resist it I get this uncomfortable lump in my throat, to ‘accept it’ makes me feel nauseous. My mind tells me I want to do these things and that I should give in but I just don’t want to, I don’t want any of this as I’m sure everyone here doesn’t. I’m trying to find a UK specialist on this matter as when I get some money I’m willing to pay any amount as its something I am having such hard time dealing with resulting in thoughts such as suicide which I know I won’t act on. I feel like every day I’m on edge and my brain is in overdrive where I just want peace, it’s like you mentioned in a previous post about just wanting to be gay to be at peace. I’m not sure what I’m looking for with this comment but it would be nice to hear from you as you are a specialist in this field. I think the article is great and the comments help somewhat. Thanks! Jonathan Hershfield March 19, 2014 at 5:40 am - Reply >>>>Dear Jon, I’ve decided to write a reply realising that you have been commenting recently and would really appreciate some feedback. I’m 26 years old from the UK and have been suffering from this for about a month, I’m not sure why it came about but I guess I have had a lot of issues in my life and for some reason its manifested itself in this way. I’ve been suffering from anxiety since my teens and have a fear of going out and etc which has been up and down over the last 10 years and I guess have a general lack of confidence in myself. —It seems, anecdotally anyway, that many people with HOCD of a history of social anxiety. >>>I’ve tried private therapy a couple times, but can’t really afford it so am looking into free CBT with the NHS here in the UK. She mentioned a couple things such as saying how thinking about another man is like a mirror of myself and related that to lack of love for myself which I think makes some sense, —Interesting approach and might be helpful, but that’s not CBT. >>>a lot of pornography throughout my life has made me feel inadequate and self concious. She mentioned also that my feeling of being rejected by women has caused it to think of men as an ‘unwanted solution’. —This sounds like a very insight-oriented psychodynamic approach. Though it could be meaningful for a better understanding of the self, it’s not an approach that will likely result in reduced OCD symptoms. >>>>I’ve been using affirmations everyday to help feel better about myself —In OCD terms this is likely a compulsion. A better strategy would be to accept the presence of thoughts without trying to be certain what they mean about you. >>>and I’ve been taking Inositol which I read can help with ocd, but its like I have this revolving image of a penis which sort of resembles my own that is like trying to be forced in my mouth and to resist it I get this uncomfortable lump in my throat, to ‘accept it’ makes me feel nauseous. My mind tells me I want to do these things and that I should give in but I just don’t want to, I don’t want any of this as I’m sure everyone here doesn’t. —In treatment you would want to do gradual exposure to this concept paired with gradual reduction of compulsive efforts to resist the thoughts. Probably this would involve some imaginal script-writing about secretly “wanting” this image and idea and maybe some ERP to related imagery. >>>I’m trying to find a UK specialist on this matter as when I get some money I’m willing to pay any amount as its something I am having such hard time dealing with resulting in thoughts such as suicide which I know I won’t act on. I feel like every day I’m on edge and my brain is in overdrive where I just want peace, it’s like you mentioned in a previous post about just wanting to be gay to be at peace. I’m not sure what I’m looking for with this comment but it would be nice to hear from you as you are a specialist in this field. I think the article is great and the comments help somewhat. —Glad you like the article. If you are unable to find/afford an ocd specialist, I would recommend approaching the problem with a book on the subject. Jonathan Grayson’s Freedom From Obsessive Compulsive Disorder might be good. Sounds like you are dealing with some pretty intense anxiety and you need to treat it differently than you have so far. Confused March 20, 2014 at 2:22 am - Reply Dear Dr. Jon, I’m a 30 yr old male who’s been struggling with OCD symptoms for nearly five years now. Long stories, and I’ve had different themes, from relationship to sickness fears, to supernatural fears. I was officially diagnosed today! it’s been an awful journey, and I had no idea I was even on it. I just thought I was weak minded. Very recently, while pleasuring myself, I indulged a gay image, and I was surprised I was still aroused, I reoriented my thoughts and continued and was fine! Slowly, days later, I began to ask the question, ‘what if I’m gay?’ Like so many other’s here, this has evolved over the past few months. I’ve had a series of rejections and non-start relationships. I’m not homophobic, and I have always loved women, relationally and sexually. Now, I’ll constantly analyse the state of my groin (size, movement) and ask whether or not any gay sentiment is attached to what’s happening. I’ll check to see if there’s movement, comparing guys and girls on a attractive to scale. I will fill my mind with gay images, and measure my response. I don’t want to be around guys because I just hate testing and the fear; and with girls my libido seems to have suddenly disappeared! I constantly get increased heart rate, hot flashes, and severe panic, sometimes thinking about the question, but sometimes just thinking about how I’m thinking about it! I know you’ve heard this all before… But today I did a test (one I’ve done many times now): starts when I feel a rush of feelings come over me, generally, it feels like arousal, and not over anything (and it happens anywhere, anytime, for no reason). So, I went to test by touching myself, considering gay imagery, involving myself. I always cringe, and hate doing it; it’s not like I was brought to this place out of longing, I know it’s an uncertainty issue, and usually I get nowhere with it (or I make myself get nowhere with it??). My problem is that today I became aroused, and it felt like the images brought real pleasure and if I didn’t stop, I may have completed (oddly enough, when I switched over my mental images to a woman, I was just as interested)… I almost started crying on the spot. How can I be afraid and aroused at once? How can my body seem to enjoy something so foreign to me? I could never do it in real life, but maybe I’m wrong. All I know is that I am crushed by this, and I know this is melodramatic to some, but it’s like I’m numb now, and it’s like nothing brings me joy anymore. It’s almost like the compulsive test has given me proof. Is that even possible? Sorry for such a long rant. Just really scared. Jonathan Hershfield March 23, 2014 at 7:10 pm - Reply >>>>Dear Dr. Jon, I’m a 30 yr old male who’s been struggling with OCD symptoms for nearly five years now. Long stories, and I’ve had different themes, from relationship to sickness fears, to supernatural fears. I was officially diagnosed today! it’s been an awful journey, and I had no idea I was even on it. I just thought I was weak minded. —-Good that you got diagnosed. >>>Very recently, while pleasuring myself, I indulged a gay image, and I was surprised I was still aroused, I reoriented my thoughts and continued and was fine! —Why would you be surprised that in the course of being aroused you remained aroused while looking at any particular image? >>>Slowly, days later, I began to ask the question, ‘what if I’m gay?’ Like so many other’s here, this has evolved over the past few months. I’ve had a series of rejections and non-start relationships. I’m not homophobic, and I have always loved women, relationally and sexually. Now, I’ll constantly analyse the state of my groin (size, movement) and ask whether or not any gay sentiment is attached to what’s happening. I’ll check to see if there’s movement, comparing guys and girls on a attractive to scale. I will fill my mind with gay images, and measure my response. I don’t want to be around guys because I just hate testing and the fear; and with girls my libido seems to have suddenly disappeared! —You’re describing a few compulsions here that quite clearly contribute to the intensity of your obsession and fear of uncertainty about orientation. Checking size and movement of the groin only sends the message to the brain that size and movement of the groin are scientific indicators of sexual orientation. Regardless of whether or not this is scientific truth (I think not), it is not the message you need to be sending if you hope to get control of your OCD. The message should be that you are capable of tolerating uncertainty and won’t let the OCD keep you from doing the things you want to do in life. That is only possible if you make the choice to stop testing. >>>I constantly get increased heart rate, hot flashes, and severe panic, sometimes thinking about the question, but sometimes just thinking about how I’m thinking about it! I know you’ve heard this all before… But today I did a test (one I’ve done many times now): starts when I feel a rush of feelings come over me, generally, it feels like arousal, and not over anything (and it happens anywhere, anytime, for no reason). So, I went to test by touching myself, considering gay imagery, involving myself. I always cringe, and hate doing it; it’s not like I was brought to this place out of longing, I know it’s an uncertainty issue, and usually I get nowhere with it (or I make myself get nowhere with it??). —It’s a compulsion. The idea that you could be gay is being treated as a contaminant and you are trying to clean your mind of it. The testing is the problem. Exposure with response prevention (ERP) works. Exposure with compulsions is just compulsions. >>>My problem is that today I became aroused, and it felt like the images brought real pleasure and if I didn’t stop, I may have completed (oddly enough, when I switched over my mental images to a woman, I was just as interested)… —You are assuming this means something, so that’s why you are identifying it as a problem. >>>>I almost started crying on the spot. How can I be afraid and aroused at once? How can my body seem to enjoy something so foreign to me? I could never do it in real life, but maybe I’m wrong. All I know is that I am crushed by this, and I know this is melodramatic to some, but it’s like I’m numb now, and it’s like nothing brings me joy anymore. It’s almost like the compulsive test has given me proof. Is that even possible? Sorry for such a long rant. Just really scared. —You need to be doing CBT. It’s really painful to be stuck in an obsessive-compulsive loop. You need to proactively break apart that loop or it will persist. As for arousal; and fear, they are essentially identical processes in the body. It’s our frame of mind that defines them. confused March 24, 2014 at 5:07 pm - Reply Thanks for taking the time to respond. I appreciate your help and will take it seriously. Miriam March 21, 2014 at 2:57 am - Reply Dr. Hershfield, I have had OCD since childhood. I have suffered from harm OCD, scrupulosity, responsibility/checking OCD, just right OCD, etc. I am in my early 30s now. I didn’t tell my family I struggled with OCD until I collapsed under the mental weight of it all in my early 20s. For the past four years I have been living through the torture of HOCD. It has chipped away at my sense of identity and left me feeling fragmented and without integrity. I have had every thought and every anxiety mentioned in the comments section of your blogs. It is frightening how real it feels; how the once intrusive thoughts can become less articulated over time transforming into more abstract feelings of knowingness; it is painfully confusing experiencing groinal responses to intrusive thoughts but it is absolutely devastating feeling those responses consistently and automatically only to images of the same sex now. Does this happen to some people with HOCD? Sometimes I haven’t had time to process that I saw a girl on tv only to have it happen. Sometimes I haven’t had a chance to develop the anxiety that would precipitate an HOCD response. Now it just happens. I keep thinking this can’t be HOCD. No one ever describes the responses as such. I do not enjoy the responses. I feel great upset when it happens. I am just unsure if it is self-hate or really HOCD. I no longer have my ‘normal’ attraction anymore. It has completely disappeared. I now only have responses to the same sex. I just feel gay. That is all I can say. I don’t want to be gay. I don’t want to live if I am. I have tried ERP and worked with a therapist specializing in OCD (three years). It didn’t get better. This failure to get better keeps feeding the fear that I don’t really have HOCD, but am really gay. I was bullied in school, I have never had a boyfriend, I am completely reclusive–I avoid social interaction, so I don’t really know what ‘normal’ is. I don’t think I have ever had the chance to develop a real self–one that is not tinged by OCD. I just don’t want to feel alone. I know I am seeking reassurance, but I just don’t want to feel alone in this please. Jonathan Hershfield March 25, 2014 at 6:40 pm - Reply >>>I have had OCD since childhood. I have suffered from harm OCD, scrupulosity, responsibility/checking OCD, just right OCD, etc. I am in my early 30s now. I didn’t tell my family I struggled with OCD until I collapsed under the mental weight of it all in my early 20s. —Sounds like you’ve been through some really rough times. It’s common for people to struggle with reaching out until they just can’t take anymore. >>>>For the past four years I have been living through the torture of HOCD. It has chipped away at my sense of identity and left me feeling fragmented and without integrity. I have had every thought and every anxiety mentioned in the comments section of your blogs. It is frightening how real it feels; —As I imagine it was when you had the harm, responsibility, scrupulosity, and other obsessions… >>>>how the once intrusive thoughts can become less articulated over time transforming into more abstract feelings of knowingness; it is painfully confusing experiencing groinal responses to intrusive thoughts but it is absolutely devastating feeling those responses consistently and automatically only to images of the same sex now. Does this happen to some people with HOCD? —If you train yourself to have certain kind of response to a physical sensation, you will experience a gradual increase in the intensity of that response and in the frequency of the sensation itself. This is what happens when you consistently respond to an awareness of a groinal response with a compulsive analysis of what it says about some fear you associate with it. >>>>Sometimes I haven’t had time to process that I saw a girl on tv only to have it happen. Sometimes I haven’t had a chance to develop the anxiety that would precipitate an HOCD response. Now it just happens. I keep thinking this can’t be HOCD. No one ever describes the responses as such. I do not enjoy the responses. I feel great upset when it happens. I am just unsure if it is self-hate or really HOCD. —Not sure what benefit creating a distinction here would have. The issue is you are aware of something happening in your body and are choosing to respond to it like it is threatening somehow. A better strategy would be to accept that sensations happen, that the meaning behind it may or may not be what you want, and resist compulsively trying to get certainty about it. Getting upset about something uncontrollable that happens in your body only makes the presence of that uncontrollable thing more painful. >>>>I no longer have my ‘normal’ attraction anymore. It has completely disappeared. I now only have responses to the same sex. I just feel gay. That is all I can say. I don’t want to be gay. I don’t want to live if I am. —This line of thinking is troublesome. If you are unwilling to consider that you would have to cope with some fear coming true, you will always be stuck doing compulsions trying to make sure that fear doesn’t come true. If you continue to do compulsions, the triggers will continue to grow and be more disruptive. >>>I have tried ERP and worked with a therapist specializing in OCD (three years). It didn’t get better. This failure to get better keeps feeding the fear that I don’t really have HOCD, but am really gay. —I can;t comment on this in a helpful way without knowing what ERP was done and how consistently it was implemented. What you are describing in this post suggests you are engaging in a variety of mental rituals that you hope will prove something that cannot be proven. If there is such a thing in which a person can be gay against their will and somehow gain no pleasure from it, I don;t know. Doesn’t make much sense to me. But if we set about trying to get certainty that this can’t happen, we buy into the same OCD cycle that troubled you with all the other OCD themes of your past. >>>I was bullied in school, I have never had a boyfriend, I am completely reclusive–I avoid social interaction, so I don’t really know what ‘normal’ is. I don’t think I have ever had the chance to develop a real self–one that is not tinged by OCD. I just don’t want to feel alone. I know I am seeking reassurance, but I just don’t want to feel alone in this please. —I don’t think it’s reassurance seeking to want to know you are not alone. I don’t believe you are alone at all. I believe you are like many OCD sufferers struggling to with a painful obsession and afraid to accept uncertainty and let go of the temporary and ultimately impairing relief you get from compulsions. I would give CBT with ERP another shot and I would also work on some of the social phobia with a therapist. Max March 23, 2014 at 11:25 am - Reply Having read all the above comments and your answers, a huge amount of the things that I have been experiencing for about 10 years have now been revealed as shared by others so that’s a huge relief. I’m a 25 y.o male, afraid of the possibility of being gay after countless sexual experiences confirming that I like women, and never enjoying a sexually explicit thought concerning a man. Rather the feelings that occur when I’m talking to a guy are one of pent up tension, not sexual but probably the concern that we’ll get too intimate, and ‘play our true hands’ if that makes any sense. I’m working in a different country at the moment, and the two things I’m considering at the moment are therapy, or plucking up the courage to seek out a gay man to have a sexual experience with. My concern regarding the second option is that it won’t put the issue to bed, it will rather confuse me more. I would describe myself as a very analytical person, but what I would like is a bit more certainty, or, as you have said that there is no such thing as certainty, at least a little more self knowledge. Thank you Dr. Hershfield for your time. Jonathan Hershfield March 25, 2014 at 6:50 pm - Reply It’s unclear why you would consider having a sexual experience with a person you don’t want to. If the idea is that you would like to enjoy said experience, then you may wish to pursue that. If it has something to do with trying to compulsively prove you’re straight, it is guaranteed to backfire like any other compulsion. If you want to have sex with men, I imagine it would take significant courage to seek this out for the first time. If you want to stop obsessing about your sexual orientation, it will take significant amounts of courage to stop doing compulsions. victoria March 26, 2014 at 3:01 am - Reply Dr Hershfield, Your articles have been very helpfull to me, as well as the stories of everyone who shared their fears and your dedicated replies. I’d like to share my story. I am very confused, and especially scared with these thoughts about my sexual orientation. I’ve been struggling with them for more than 10 years (I’m 24 years old). Sometimes they went away (they disappeared or where easily discarted when I was in a relationship with a boy, actually when I’m with a man I can manage to laugh at the obssesssive thoughts). But when I’m sacred or single or mean to me, they come back and much more threatening. It’s the thought, the compulsion to fight the thought about homosexuality, the horrible moment when the thought fights back, and my body in absolute tension. I can’t relate to anyone genuinely: I get nervous around women who I know or I think that are homosexual or very open regarding their sexuality (bisexual), totally scared; and I don’t let me be comfortable around men because I’m under pressure to know someone to set me free of these thoughts as well. I’ve never been in a serious relationship before in my life. I’ve always dated men, I’ve been in love with men, I’ve daydreamed with boys, imagined my life next to one. These thoughts make it very difficult for me to relate to them, from a place of freedom and happiness… and this pressure I feel to know a man is very confusing as well: do I want to meet a man to be with him and share my life with him and love him, or do I want a man to stop these thoughts and get some certainty???? This doubt or this question is what has been feeding the thoughts lately… because what I hear in my head is: “you want a man just to stop this, but what you really want is a woman. ” It’s like that like someone is telling this to me, it frightens me to death. I’ve also been wondering about two or three of my friends, girls I know from almost all my life, from school, since we were kinds. I’ve never had other type of feelings for them, but I tend to look up to them a lot (or I used to do that.) Maybe I felt they were like role models, and I think in this context of tension I’ve been manipulating this admiration interpreting it as “maybe I like them”. For the past few weeks the obsession has increased. I’m about to go on a journey of 3 months, the first one on my own, and what prevents me from enjoying this trip is this obsession. I’m afarid and scared “to go wild” and suddenly be with a girl. It’s a thought I don’t enjoy, I find it terrifying, and it’s like I didn’t have a choice whatsoever. And I know I have a choice, and I’m scared I’ll choose being with a girl! I’m sorry for the lenght of this post!! But I’m very greatfull to have a space to share this with people who go through similar stories and professionals who care about us and dedicate time to read and answer these posts. Thank you very much Dr Hershfield!! Jonathan Hershfield April 2, 2014 at 4:21 am - Reply >>> Your articles have been very helpfull to me, as well as the stories of everyone who shared their fears and your dedicated replies. I’d like to share my story. I am very confused, and especially scared with these thoughts about my sexual orientation. I’ve been struggling with them for more than 10 years (I’m 24 years old). Sometimes they went away (they disappeared or where easily discarted when I was in a relationship with a boy, actually when I’m with a man I can manage to laugh at the obssesssive thoughts). But when I’m sacred or single or mean to me, they come back and much more threatening. —This is a common experience. >>>It’s the thought, the compulsion to fight the thought about homosexuality, the horrible moment when the thought fights back, and my body in absolute tension. I can’t relate to anyone genuinely: I get nervous around women who I know or I think that are homosexual or very open regarding their sexuality (bisexual), totally scared; and I don’t let me be comfortable around men because I’m under pressure to know someone to set me free of these thoughts as well. —The presence of a man in your life provides reassurance, but until you are willing to accept uncertainty, you will feel compelled to enange in compulsions which fuel the obsession over orientation. >>>I’ve never been in a serious relationship before in my life. I’ve always dated men, I’ve been in love with men, I’ve daydreamed with boys, imagined my life next to one. These thoughts make it very difficult for me to relate to them, from a place of freedom and happiness… and this pressure I feel to know a man is very confusing as well: do I want to meet a man to be with him and share my life with him and love him, or do I want a man to stop these thoughts and get some certainty???? —Both, probably. >>> This doubt or this question is what has been feeding the thoughts lately… because what I hear in my head is: “you want a man just to stop this, but what you really want is a woman. ” It’s like that like someone is telling this to me, it frightens me to death. —What frightens you is an unwillingness to accept the possibility that you might have to cope with the unknown. >>>>I’ve also been wondering about two or three of my friends, girls I know from almost all my life, from school, since we were kinds. I’ve never had other type of feelings for them, but I tend to look up to them a lot (or I used to do that.) Maybe I felt they were like role models, and I think in this context of tension I’ve been manipulating this admiration interpreting it as “maybe I like them”. For the past few weeks the obsession has increased. I’m about to go on a journey of 3 months, the first one on my own, and what prevents me from enjoying this trip is this obsession. –More accurately, what threatens you enjoyment is the urge to respond to the obsession with neutralizing attempts. >>>>I’m afarid and scared “to go wild” and suddenly be with a girl. It’s a thought I don’t enjoy, I find it terrifying, and it’s like I didn’t have a choice whatsoever. And I know I have a choice, and I’m scared I’ll choose being with a girl! I’m sorry for the lenght of this post!! But I’m very greatfull to have a space to share this with people who go through similar stories and professionals who care about us and dedicate time to read and answer these posts. —Hang in there. My recommendation is that you consider that whatever choice you might make at some point in the future, is a choice you will make willingly, the consequences of which you will simply find a way to cope with. victoria April 4, 2014 at 2:45 am Thank you so much for your feedback, I really appreciate it!! The uncertainty and the unknown… that’s something I’m definitely going to work on. A few years back I read blogs in the persuit of certainty. And here I’ve come to realise that uncertainty is what I should become friends with; this is new to me, scary, but challenging. Also… this sensation of the thoughts invading my self: it’s like I have no power at all. But maybe, I should start standing up for myself. And I don’t mean fighting the thoughts back , I mean… really getting to know myself, seeing the whole me, not just the obsession. Because it seems like it consumes all the other parts of me. Empowering my self, which in confrontation with OCD feels very very tiny. Giving myself space, and loving who I am. In one of the useful links you’ve provided us, there was a woman who wrote something about embrassing her OCD… I’m writting my HOCD a letter as we speak, I believe it’ll help. This blog has provided me with the tools I needed. I’m very glad I found it… and I really hope I can give something back one day. Jonathan Hershfield April 10, 2014 at 4:05 pm Sounds like you’re on to something! Nicola March 24, 2014 at 12:35 pm - Reply My obsessions have become really bad over the last few weeks. I really am starting to think that I am a lesbian. It’s embarrassing to admit, but when I see pictures of naked women I feel aroused. It is this issue that means that I will always relapse, because this surely means something. It’s usually if the picture or image insinuates sex in some way, but I’ve found myself having a response to un-sexualised images. I’ve read things online that say this is very unusual for truly hetrosexual women. I also watched a documentary about supposed “gay curing” techniques. (I don’t agree with this at all). An experiment was conducted on a gay man – he was shown various sexual images and videos of men and women. They measured the arousal in his penis, which was much more responsive to male images. If this test was conducted on me, I know that I would be aroused by the female images – therefore, based on evidence from the experiment, I would be seen as gay. After reading comment from hetrosexual women saying that it’s wierd to be turned on by women and that this doesn’t happen to them, I cry and suffer anxiety attacks. This will always be an issue and I will always be unhappy in iife because of it. Jonathan Hershfield April 2, 2014 at 3:43 am - Reply >>>My obsessions have become really bad over the last few weeks. I really am starting to think that I am a lesbian. It’s embarrassing to admit, but when I see pictures of naked women I feel aroused. —Why is that embarrassing? That assumes that arousal to women automatically defines your identity. If this is the case, then arousal to Victorias Secret makes me an adulterer. >>>It is this issue that means that I will always relapse, because this surely means something. —This is a decision you are making based on an assumption. >>>It’s usually if the picture or image insinuates sex in some way, but I’ve found myself having a response to un-sexualised images. I’ve read things online that say this is very unusual for truly hetrosexual women. —Fascinating. I have heard of this “internet” but generally have not seen it produce compelling scientific data. Of course, I am writing this on a blog, so who am I to judge? >>>I also watched a documentary about supposed “gay curing” techniques. (I don’t agree with this at all). An experiment was conducted on a gay man – he was shown various sexual images and videos of men and women. They measured the arousal in his penis, which was much more responsive to male images. If this test was conducted on me, I know that I would be aroused by the female images – therefore, based on evidence from the experiment, I would be seen as gay. —So what you are saying is that if an experiment that hypothesized arousal correlating to orientation demonstrated that you were lesbian, that would mean you are a lesbian. >>>After reading comment from hetrosexual women saying that it’s wierd to be turned on by women and that this doesn’t happen to them, I cry and suffer anxiety attacks. —You suffer anxiety attacks because you refuse to accept uncertainty, making you assume this makes you gay, making you assume that your identity is false. >>>This will always be an issue and I will always be unhappy in iife because of it. —Sorry you are going through such a difficult time. I don’t know you and can;t diagnose you from a blog comment, but you describe a way of thinking that sounds consistent with other OCD sufferers. It might be worth a shot to treat your obsession the way one would treat any obsession in OCD, with CBT, and see if it produces better results that resigning yourself to a lifetime of unhappiness. Kevin April 3, 2014 at 6:10 pm - Reply First of all, thank you very much for your writing on this topic. I have been suffering from it for 20 years + now. I am getting treatment and every time I feel like I’m moving forward, I’ll have a spike that sends my thoughts reeling and my anxiety to soar. My therapist said, much like you’ve suggested here and in your workbook, to let the thoughts happen. I am finding it difficult to do. My tendency to problem solve and disagree with the thoughts causes them to run wild. I am 45, and haven’t had a long-term relationship with a woman since my bad marriage ended 15 years ago. I have been longing for a woman in my life, but the thoughts keep shoving me around and drive me crazy. I can rarely make a male friend without thinking of him sexually, which causes me a great amount of torment. I don’t want to have sex with men! Ever! I feel trapped by these thoughts and I so desperately want to not be bothered by them and be in a place where I can have a relationship with a woman that is real and genuine and loving. These thoughts all pile up on me and make me want to give up living. I just want some peace for once in my lonely life. This is hard. Jonathan Hershfield April 10, 2014 at 4:04 pm - Reply >>>>First of all, thank you very much for your writing on this topic. I have been suffering from it for 20 years + now. I am getting treatment and every time I feel like I’m moving forward, I’ll have a spike that sends my thoughts reeling and my anxiety to soar. —This suggests that you are focused on trying not to be anxious, which is what drives you to go back to compulsive strategies even thought 20+ years of them have proven they don’t work. You need to change the storyline by seeing anxiety spikes as opportunities to get better at having that feeling without doing compulsions. The better you are at being discomforted, the less the OCD has in its arsenal. >>>My therapist said, much like you’ve suggested here and in your workbook, to let the thoughts happen. I am finding it difficult to do. My tendency to problem solve and disagree with the thoughts causes them to run wild. —More accurately, you try to stop the thoughts from being as they are by doing mental compulsions (analysis, etc). Then, after the compulsions make things worse, you ultimately end up having to let the thoughts happen anyway. It makes more sense to stop viewing the presence of certain kinds of thoughts as a matter of choice and instead view them as a matter of observation, like clouds. >>>>I am 45, and haven’t had a long-term relationship with a woman since my bad marriage ended 15 years ago. I have been longing for a woman in my life, but the thoughts keep shoving me around and drive me crazy. —Again, I would say your refusal to pursue the things you value (in this case, a woman) on the precondition of the absence of certain thoughts is the problem. Drop the precondition, do whatever you like. That’s how people get better at OCD and life in general. >>>>I can rarely make a male friend without thinking of him sexually, which causes me a great amount of torment. —Telling yourself not to think sexual thoughts about men is what causes you torment. >>>I don’t want to have sex with men! Ever! I feel trapped by these thoughts and I so desperately want to not be bothered by them and be in a place where I can have a relationship with a woman that is real and genuine and loving. These thoughts all pile up on me and make me want to give up living. I just want some peace for once in my lonely life. This is hard. —It is hard, but the goal of treatment is to get better at being bothered, not to stop thoughts and feelings from happening. Keep at it, but change tactics. Label the mental arguing, the shoving yourself around, and the avoidance of pursuing experiences you want just because unwanted thoughts are along for the ride, as compulsions that are the cause of your woes. sinead quinlan April 10, 2014 at 7:35 pm - Reply Hi Jon, My name is Sinead I first posted here in June last year. I just felt I had to post again. I think the time you take to answer everyone who posts here is phenomenal, you truly are an amazing & commited phsycologist! The other thing is your book. It’s fantastic! I really recommend all the people posting here to get it. I’m finding it a great help. The book like your posts are clear & easy to understand. Slowly but surely I think I’m starting to understand my ocd. I’ll probably never get to meet you but I wanted you to know you’ve made a difference to my life. Thank you, so much. Sinead Jonathan Hershfield April 11, 2014 at 6:44 pm - Reply Thank you, Sinead, for your positive comments! Very happy to hear things are clicking for you! Jon April 12, 2014 at 10:09 pm - Reply How’s it going Jon. Another Jon here myself. I’m a 19 year old male who has been diagnosed with HOCD by an OCD specialist and I am currently undergoing CBT along with taking the SSRI Lexapro. I struggle to stay on my medication at times. I quit using marijuana once I was diagnosed with OCD but have been using it rather frequently recently and have not told me OCD specialist. Marijuana deffiently makes me more paranoid and gives the thoughts a clear open gate to come in whenever I am high. However even though I know this is going to happen, I still can’t quit the marijuana addiction. It’s like it relieves my anxiety and makes me feel a little better the first 5 minutes, and than once I’m stoned I just feel so depressed about my life. Not only do I know I shouldn’t be smoking because I’m on an antidepressant but it’s like weed itself has it’s own grasp on me. I know the two are not good to mix and it’s something I have to work on. Do you have any suggestions? The funny thing is I never questioned my sexuality before I turned 19. I know I shouldn’t be on here because I’m going through the right therapy but I couldn’t help but tell you my story since I see you know so much about it. I have had sex with about a dozen girls and now have a beautiful girlfriend myself whom I love so much. She has no idea I have HOCD and it rarely effects my sex life. Although almost every time me and her have sex it’s like the OCD voice is in the back of my head telling me “your just doing this to prove you aren’t gay”, or “you would like gay sex better”. When clearly I’m aroused by my girlfriend and the female body itself. I remember when I was younger, I never once thought about my friends in that way. If anything we were comfortable in joking around about these things and now it’s like I’m uncomfortable even talking to them. These are the same friends I would go out and get girls with. I feel as if the OCD tries to just make everything gay. Like why can’t I just feel like I use too about my friends, they were my buddies, I felt comfortable around them. Now it’s like every time I see one of my male friends I gotta make sure I don’t say anything in a “gay manner”, watch what I talk about, etc. The worst part about all of this is that I am what you would call a more pretty boy than macho man. I’m not the big muscular guy that all the ladies want. I’m more on the skinny side, goodlooking face, nice guy. My OCD tries to use this as some type of evidence that I’m gay. That because I’m not so manly man I could never really love a woman, even though I’m currently in love. My OCD therapist tells me to agree with my thoughts and simply move on. Agreeing with them meaning just say “okay I’m gay”? I have been undergoing my current treatment for a little more than a month. Jonathan Hershfield April 17, 2014 at 4:25 pm - Reply >>>>How’s it going Jon. Another Jon here myself. I’m a 19 year old male who has been diagnosed with HOCD by an OCD specialist and I am currently undergoing CBT along with taking the SSRI Lexapro. —Good. >>>I struggle to stay on my medication at times. —Unfortunately SSRI’s really only work if taken consistently, so you do yourself a disservice taking them on and off. >>>>I quit using marijuana once I was diagnosed with OCD but have been using it rather frequently recently and have not told me OCD specialist. —You should tell your therapist whenever you are doing something that could impact treatment. Otherwise their recommendations may not be the right fit. Don’t shoot yourself in the foot. >>>> Marijuana deffiently makes me more paranoid and gives the thoughts a clear open gate to come in whenever I am high. However even though I know this is going to happen, I still can’t quit the marijuana addiction. It’s like it relieves my anxiety and makes me feel a little better the first 5 minutes, and than once I’m stoned I just feel so depressed about my life. Not only do I know I shouldn’t be smoking because I’m on an antidepressant but it’s like weed itself has it’s own grasp on me. I know the two are not good to mix and it’s something I have to work on. Do you have any suggestions? -=–Sounds like you have some insight into the problem. The temporary relief from anxiety may seem worth it in the moment, but then 5 minutes later… Plus, you’re missing the point that by stoning your anxiety away, you are effectively confirming the OCD’s theory that you are incapable of tolerating discomfort. It also inhibits learning, meaning you may feel relaxed in the moment you get high, but your brain isn’t really learning that the scary thing has been coped with, so as soon as the high comes down you are just as sensitive to the trigger as before. This hampers your ability to engage in successful ERP. I don’t know the severity of your reliance on this drug and you need to sort that out with your therapist. Whether you need treatment for addiction, or just need to take a hiatus or no-weed-diet for a while is something your therapist can help you determine. In any case, its presence in your life is very likely delaying progress in your OCD treatment. >>>>The funny thing is I never questioned my sexuality before I turned 19. I know I shouldn’t be on here because I’m going through the right therapy but I couldn’t help but tell you my story since I see you know so much about it. I have had sex with about a dozen girls and now have a beautiful girlfriend myself whom I love so much. She has no idea I have HOCD and it rarely effects my sex life. Although almost every time me and her have sex it’s like the OCD voice is in the back of my head telling me “your just doing this to prove you aren’t gay”, or “you would like gay sex better”. When clearly I’m aroused by my girlfriend and the female body itself. —Since the thoughts are going to happen anyway, your job is to notice them and not try to do anything about them. It’s as if someone sent you a text while you were having sex. It’s not necessary to stop, go find your phone, see who texted you, analyze the text and formulate a response. Just acknowledge that you heard your phone buzz and then get back to enjoying your connection to this other person in your bed. >>>>I remember when I was younger, I never once thought about my friends in that way. If anything we were comfortable in joking around about these things and now it’s like I’m uncomfortable even talking to them. These are the same friends I would go out and get girls with. I feel as if the OCD tries to just make everything gay. —So let it. It;s you trying to protect yourself that makes the presence of these thoughts seem threatening. >>>>Like why can’t I just feel like I use too about my friends, they were my buddies, I felt comfortable around them. Now it’s like every time I see one of my male friends I gotta make sure I don’t say anything in a “gay manner”, watch what I talk about, etc. —You don’t gotta anything. You feel a compulsive urge to do things because you have OCD. What you do with those urges is up to you. >>>The worst part about all of this is that I am what you would call a more pretty boy than macho man. I’m not the big muscular guy that all the ladies want. —You literally just got finished telling me you’ve been with 12 girls and you’re 19. You also seem to think that all the ladies want a big muscular guy, which is something that’s actually been studied scientifically and is apparently untrue. >>>>I’m more on the skinny side, goodlooking face, nice guy. My OCD tries to use this as some type of evidence that I’m gay. That because I’m not so manly man I could never really love a woman, even though I’m currently in love. My OCD therapist tells me to agree with my thoughts and simply move on. Agreeing with them meaning just say “okay I’m gay”? I have been undergoing my current treatment for a little more than a month. —This is not bad advice and is consistent with what a lot of ocd therapists would recommend. Personally I think a better strategy to agreeing (which you actually don’t) is to acknowledge a more objective reality, that “maybe this means I’m gay” and that you don’t know for certain. In the end what matters is that you are not responding to the thoughts with compulsive attempts to prove you are straight. Irina April 13, 2014 at 4:01 pm - Reply Hi, John I really need your help. I know you can’t diagnose anyone based on a blog comment but there are no therapists who specialize in OCD in my area and as a society we are not open to homosexuality. Im am a female who’s been attracted to males all my life. I’m currently in my second relationship and I love him and feel aroused by him. The detail is that we are currently long distance and seeing each other about once a month. Recently I’ve been very alone and the anxiety started to build one day after I had a dream where one of my friends sort of came on to me but I didn’t do anything and kind of freaked. Since then and for the past week I’ve been suffering from anxiety, feeling a knot in my chest and meticulously analyzing anything in my past that might suggest I was gay (ie. I never had crushes while I was a little girl, I kissed my sister once while we were playing princess, I couldn’t see the gay circle in the russian army test, etc.) Today I told my stepfather who was very confused because he’s always seen me with boys and know I like them and am aroused by them. I told him about watching porn, i watched both heterosexual and homosexual porn which both aroused me (at first I felt very uncomfortable). I am very worried. I felt very happy with my boyfriend, he is all I’ve ever wanted and this anxiety is didn’t let me sleep last night and has had me nervous all week. Sometimes I feel the urge to kiss my friends and immediately feel disgusted and scared. I’ve never been away from my boyfriend for so long and I am terrified. I keep analyzing everything. I don’t want to be a homosexual, all I want is my peace back and the love and serenity I used to feel before all this happened. Pleas help me, I don’t know where else to turn. Thank you. Jonathan Hershfield April 18, 2014 at 5:30 pm - Reply >>>>Hi, John I really need your help. I know you can’t diagnose anyone based on a blog comment but there are no therapists who specialize in OCD in my area and as a society we are not open to homosexuality. —What area are you referring to? >>>>Im am a female who’s been attracted to males all my life. I’m currently in my second relationship and I love him and feel aroused by him. The detail is that we are currently long distance and seeing each other about once a month. Recently I’ve been very alone and the anxiety started to build one day after I had a dream where one of my friends sort of came on to me but I didn’t do anything and kind of freaked. Since then and for the past week I’ve been suffering from anxiety, feeling a knot in my chest and meticulously analyzing anything in my past that might suggest I was gay (ie. I never had crushes while I was a little girl, I kissed my sister once while we were playing princess, I couldn’t see the gay circle in the russian army test, etc.) —I would suggest that your compulsions described above are what is causing your anxiety and that you feeling lonely or having a dream with gay content is not the culprit. The analysis, testing, investigating etc are all forms of telling yourself that the content of a dream is a threat to you. Stop doing the compulsions and the associated discomfort will likely fade. >>>Today I told my stepfather who was very confused because he’s always seen me with boys and know I like them and am aroused by them. I told him about watching porn, i watched both heterosexual and homosexual porn which both aroused me (at first I felt very uncomfortable). I am very worried. —It is unclear what it is specifically that you are worried about. If it is the belief that being aroused by sexual material must mean you are gay, then this is a distorted belief that is capable of being challenged. If you are worried that you can’t have certainty about your sexual orientation, you need to look at why you think certainty is possible in the first place that it is worth doing compulsions for. A better strategy would be to accept uncertainty and live your life in accordance with your values (which presumably include being your boyfriend’s girlfriend). >>>> I felt very happy with my boyfriend, he is all I’ve ever wanted and this anxiety is didn’t let me sleep last night and has had me nervous all week. Sometimes I feel the urge to kiss my friends and immediately feel disgusted and scared. I’ve never been away from my boyfriend for so long and I am terrified. I keep analyzing everything. I don’t want to be a homosexual, all I want is my peace back and the love and serenity I used to feel before all this happened. Pleas help me, I don’t know where else to turn. Thank you. —You describe a lot of common symptoms of OCD. If there is no one who specializes in your area and you have the ability to afford it, then you might try working with an OCD therapist doing CBT online. If not, I would try to use one of the available workbooks for self-CBT for OCD. In the end, the only way to address what you are going through is to stop doing compulsions, which for you means to stop attempting to prove your orientation as a strategy for reducing anxiety. Irina April 26, 2014 at 4:54 pm - Reply Im am not from the US but I have to say that since I found out HOCD existed I’ve felt a lot calmer and had no anxiety attacks. I still worry about it sometimes but it’s gotten considerably better. I try to accept these thoughts as they are and remember that Im happy with the life and the relationships I lead. The thing is that most of the time, in normal social interactions, i forget about them and the worry floods back when I’m alone and stressed. So I’ve tried to remind myself that its all in my head and letting it go, I know it’s something I don’t want to be. Thank you for the work you do and taking the time to answer everyone here. Travmania May 4, 2014 at 8:57 pm - Reply I feel horrible today, I don’t know what to do any more, I can’t afford a therapist let alone an ocd specialist . My OCD is stuck on the idea of being trans now , which is an all new hell compared to HOCD. I once had trouble looking at my fellow man, now I can’t even look at women or men the same way. I wish I was dead, but the only thing that keeps me around is my son, but I’m so scared for myself. I’m stuck and I don’t want to live any-more. Jonathan Hershfield April 28, 2014 at 1:48 pm - Reply Trav, it sounds like you are depressed and I’m sorry to hear you are so low right now. If you are at any risk of harming yourself, please go to an emergency room or call an emergency hotline. It’s good that you remember your son in all of this. Since you do not have access to treatment, it sounds like you will have to do this with a workbook on your own. Consider how your compulsive drive for certainty about this issue is interfering in your values, including being present for your son. Travmania May 5, 2014 at 1:12 am - Reply I wish there was a write up on the symptoms of T-OCD as the reassurance at least helps me calm down.. and even though I found pages of people discussing it , my mind is never convinced long enough. I feel sick from this , it’s even doing the compulsive flooding of imagining me being a woman or liking something as a woman , even though I don’t like it or want it. I have my son with me, and I feel so defeated that it makes me sad that I have hardly ever been able to “BE ME AGAIN”, while I’m with my son. The compulsions, the obsessions, and the checking are all there as well, but just different now that it’s a different obsession, as I used to have HOCD. Jonathan Hershfield April 28, 2014 at 1:53 pm - Reply >>>>I wish there was a write up on the symptoms of T-OCD —We can keep giving letters to every obsession and pretend they are different from each other, but they are not. OCD is OCD. You have an unwanted intrusive thought that something is amiss with your sexuality and you are engaging in compulsions to prove you are who you want to be. Giving it a special name is part of what makes the obsession seem so important. >>>as the reassurance at least helps me calm down.. —That’s like someone with contamination OCD saying they wish they had some hand sanitizer because at least they would feel clean. That may be so, but when is that person going to get better and accept uncertainty about whether their hands are clean? >>>>and even though I found pages of people discussing it , my mind is never convinced long enough. —There are countless books about OCD and articles about sexual obsessions. The insistence that they cover any specific obsession is overlooking the real issue here. The disorder you are struggling with is not about transgendered sexuality. It’s about this notion of being “convinced.” >>>> I feel sick from this , it’s even doing the compulsive flooding of imagining me being a woman or liking something as a woman , even though I don’t like it or want it. I have my son with me, and I feel so defeated that it makes me sad that I have hardly ever been able to “BE ME AGAIN”, while I’m with my son. The compulsions, the obsessions, and the checking are all there as well, but just different now that it’s a different obsession, as I used to have HOCD. —If the goal is to return to being present with your son, this necessitates that you abandon this idea that your obsession with being trans is somehow different from your obsession with being gay. It is the same obsession with different words and has the same potential to be overcome with the same techniques. Nathan May 8, 2014 at 12:07 am - Reply Hey, i think i still have hocd or maybe im just accepting myself… Let me start from the beginning im 14 almost 15 ever since i was 9 i was noticing girls, and get an erection to them, ive never once questioned my self also i never watched porn once until the age of 12 then i only did that but i still knew i was straight but may 3 2013 i couldnt get hard to anything so i just assumed that i needed to stop watching it but i later went to the mall and i thought i saw a girl the person had long hair and looked like a girl but i checked the person out and then i realized he was a guy thats when i asked “am i gay??” I said nope… I met a girl we started dating and i always got hard to the sexual things we did but then i had soo much anxiety watch gay and thinking gay thoughts because i started question myself then i started turning myself on through the constant focus on that area then i had cycles of when i know im not gay and when i really think i am and at this time i was not getting hard to guys but ive struggled with this for a year and its gotten to the point where i can say im gay and no anxiety and i have little to none anxiety to gay porn/fantasies but i start to feel turned on im scared that i actually lived a lie and the billions of crushes ive had on girls was a lie the attraction was a lie and im finally dating a girl i had a crush on since 5th grade but i cant figure out who or what i am anymore… Is this hocd??? Or am i a repressed gay person??? :/ Jonathan Hershfield May 14, 2014 at 9:59 pm - Reply I don’t know what “repressed gay person” means but you do describe some common compulsions found in OCD, mostly in the form of checking your groinal responses and trying to prove your orientation. At the core of all OCD is uncertainty tolerance. So rather than trying to know for sure what you are or why you have the experiences you have, you want to work on accepting, well, “maybe” and pursuing whatever it is you think is in line with your values anyway. You appear to want to be with women. Your fear is that your history of wanting this is some kind of psychoanalytic fluke and a lie. Though unlikely, it would be impossible to prove otherwise. So the best approach would be to accept that anything is possible, but not let thoughts, feelings, or groinals influence your behavioral choices anyway. It sounds like you are doing a lot of compulsive “testing” of your reactions to things. This would be something to resist if you want the obsession to decrease. I think you also need to challenge this distorted belief that a person’s ability to be turned on by something automatically means they are oriented toward that thing. Lauren May 15, 2014 at 4:28 pm - Reply Hello, Have you ever had a client say that they have just stopped feeling straight completely? I feel like, as I have suffered through this (what I HOPE to be OCD) that my once-familiar feelings of liking and desiring men have all but vanished. I have the awful experience of fearing that I’m just holding back on being a lesbian. That can’t be right, can it? How can I be holding back on it, if I’ve been obsessing over it for nearly five months now? I assume that I have a crush on every girl that is pretty or is kind to me. And I try to pursue it, to accept it, but it feels awful and makes me very distressed. I don’t know how to approach this in a healthier way. I never felt like this before this obsession occurred. I went to a therapist who did not specialize in OCD, and she used talk therapy to try and get to the root of the problem. I tried to admit that I am bisexual, and to try and be comfortable with that, but even if I had one day where I could be OK with it, the next day I would freak out and the checking would resume all over again. I have been watching movies with lesbian themes in them, and just working on accepting whatever comes to my mind, whether I think they make a nice couple, or I think they are beautiful. Then I masturbate to the thought of them, and I find that I can come from thinking about lesbian sex. I don’t find it particularly exciting, but I can still get aroused by it. This, obviously, distresses me a lot. You tell people to “stop being upset” by same-sex fantasies, but I have no idea how to go about that! I have a lot of fear about the fact that I’m 24 and have not been in a relationship with a guy yet. I have a lot of anxiety about intimacy, I think. I have had multiple strong crushes on men, but they seem like lies in the face of my obsession. I’m afraid that my issues with dating are signs that I’m secretly a lesbian. But I’ve been approached by lesbians before this obsession occurred and I wasn’t interested nor was I upset. But now I fear that if that were to happen again, I would pursue it and fall in love with her. God, how silly is it to fear that you’d fall in love with a particular gender? I can’t believe I feel that way. But I just wanted to be with a man before. I found it exciting and comfortable. Every now and then, when I am relaxed, sometimes the fantasies with men I had before return. It makes me so excited and happy. Yesterday I patted an old (female) friend on the shoulder, and was so afraid that it would come off as hitting on her. I also fear that everyone looks at me and thinks I look butch, or that I walk in a “gay” way. I know it sounds so silly, but to me this all feels so real and frightening. I feel like I can never reclaim that awesome relationship I had with my sexuality. Or that if I ever do find the right guy to be with, I’ll be consumed with thoughts like “You don’t really like him. You don’t feel aroused by him. You don’t actually find him attractive. You’d rather be with a woman.” This, obviously, is just a battle I cannot fight alone. Thank you for your time. Jonathan Hershfield May 24, 2014 at 6:14 pm - Reply >>>Hello, Have you ever had a client say that they have just stopped feeling straight completely? I feel like, as I have suffered through this (what I HOPE to be OCD) that my once-familiar feelings of liking and desiring men have all but vanished. —Of course. There are two things going on here, though. First, we know that anxiety and compulsive checking of feelings often leads to lowered or lost libido and general discomfort around whatever it is you’re checking. That makes a lot of sense. If you repeatedly asked yourself if your favorite joke was “really” funny and tried to test by reading it over and over to see if you laughed, you’re going to have less-than-inspiring response. The other thing going on here has to do with distorted thinking. You ask if people stop “feeling straight” as if being a heterosexual came with some kind of identifiable feeling that helped people distinguish themselves from homosexuals. This is not grounded in reality. “Feeling straight” implies a distorted labeling experience common to OCD, much like “feeling safe from disease” or “feeling unlikely to stab someone.” It doesn’t actually mean anything other than that the person is over-attending to their feeling sand attributing some kind of biased meaning to them. >>>>I have the awful experience of fearing that I’m just holding back on being a lesbian. That can’t be right, can it? How can I be holding back on it, if I’ve been obsessing over it for nearly five months now? I assume that I have a crush on every girl that is pretty or is kind to me. And I try to pursue it, to accept it, but it feels awful and makes me very distressed. I don’t know how to approach this in a healthier way. I never felt like this before this obsession occurred. —The fear in OCD terms is that you “may be in denial” of something. This is no different than when a person who decides not to use hand sanitizer after shaking someone’s hand fears that they are in denial of some scary flesh-eating bacteria being on them. Though unlikely, you want to accept, ok, maybe I have a crush on every pretty girl, so be it. That doesn’t make it true. It makes it unimportant. By trying to prove you don;t, you only make yourself feel more like you’re hiding something. >>>>I went to a therapist who did not specialize in OCD, and she used talk therapy to try and get to the root of the problem. I tried to admit that I am bisexual, and to try and be comfortable with that, but even if I had one day where I could be OK with it, the next day I would freak out and the checking would resume all over again. —You get what you pay for, I guess. Talk therapy and “getting to the root” is not an effective treatment for ocd. Trying to admit you are a bisexual is probably about as useful as trying to admit you are a giraffe. >>>I have been watching movies with lesbian themes in them, and just working on accepting whatever comes to my mind, whether I think they make a nice couple, or I think they are beautiful. Then I masturbate to the thought of them, and I find that I can come from thinking about lesbian sex. I don’t find it particularly exciting, but I can still get aroused by it. This, obviously, distresses me a lot. You tell people to “stop being upset” by same-sex fantasies, but I have no idea how to go about that! —I am unclear why you are choosing to masturbate to something if you don’t want to. If it’s because you are testing your sexuality, then this is a compulsion. If it is for exposure with response prevention, then you need to be agreeing with whatever the OCD dishes out at you and lean into the discomfort. In other words, expose to the feeling of being upset. If it is because you just want to and derive pleasure from it, then it’s unclear what you are upset about. Personally I don’t think a person getting off to something outside of their preferred relationship material is particularly interesting or unusual. But if it is the focal point of your obsession, you should do exposure to this concept in treatment. I don’t believe I ever said to someone “stop being upset” or if I did, that was a poor way to put it. Stop trying to control what you feel makes more sense. >>>I have a lot of fear about the fact that I’m 24 and have not been in a relationship with a guy yet. I have a lot of anxiety about intimacy, I think. I have had multiple strong crushes on men, but they seem like lies in the face of my obsession. I’m afraid that my issues with dating are signs that I’m secretly a lesbian. But I’ve been approached by lesbians before this obsession occurred and I wasn’t interested nor was I upset. But now I fear that if that were to happen again, I would pursue it and fall in love with her. God, how silly is it to fear that you’d fall in love with a particular gender? —Yes. And you should remind yourself that the future is unknown and not your job to lock it down ahead of time. >>>I can’t believe I feel that way. But I just wanted to be with a man before. I found it exciting and comfortable. Every now and then, when I am relaxed, sometimes the fantasies with men I had before return. It makes me so excited and happy. Yesterday I patted an old (female) friend on the shoulder, and was so afraid that it would come off as hitting on her. I also fear that everyone looks at me and thinks I look butch, or that I walk in a “gay” way. —These are thoughts. It’s up to you how seriously you take them based on how much effort you put into responding to them. >>>I know it sounds so silly, but to me this all feels so real and frightening. I feel like I can never reclaim that awesome relationship I had with my sexuality. Or that if I ever do find the right guy to be with, I’ll be consumed with thoughts like “You don’t really like him. You don’t feel aroused by him. You don’t actually find him attractive. You’d rather be with a woman.” This, obviously, is just a battle I cannot fight alone. Thank you for your time. —You may have those thoughts. And you may have to learn how to cope with them. The only way to do that, of course, is to guess and pursue meaningful relationships with people you think you probably care about. Adriana May 22, 2014 at 9:52 am - Reply Hi Dr.Hershfield, congratulations for the blog it’s really a great help. I’m 21 years old and I think I have struggle with ocd since I was 12 , I never was diagonosed but I also never went to teraphy, I never told my parents because I knew we couldn’t afford teraphy , it’s so expensive where I live. Well, I had obsessive thoughts about having aids like 3 times in my whole life, I also had obssessions about having rare diseases like ALS and AAA, and cancer and other diseaseses, I had obsessions about my boyfriend like he didn’t love me or that he was gay, about being pregnant , about being a lesbian and about earthquakes and tsunamis. This obsessions that I had , there were ones who toke longer than others, the obsessions about my health I think I still couldn’t get over it , but at least is more or less under control. Now I think I’m having another episode of hocd, because I think that was what I had at the age of 13, this all started when I was talking with a friend of mine in college that I just met this year, and we were talking about a tv show and I thought that we had a lot in common and then I’ve got this thought omg what if I am a lesbian and I’m in love with her, I forgot to say that before all this I thought that she was bisexual, anyway I totally freaked out , I remember that I had a thing like this at 13 , and even maked me freaked out more , the face of my friend started to appear in my head, and now it stopped thank god. I’ve been like this for 5 months I kind of lost the attraction for men and everytime I see a pretty girl it feels like I have real attraction, I used to google everyday for hocd but I don’t anymore, and I think that I still check for attraction , I really just don’t know what to do anymore , this is ruining my life , my relationship that I’ve been for 5 years and my happiness , I’m never happy just sad. Also I’m affraid mostly because I always believed that a person either borns gay or don’t and I think I still believe that, but since I had a obsession about being lesbian at 13 I’m scared that I could repressed gay feelings and my feelings for men after that were all a lie, I mean I’ve been crazy about boys since I was 4 and after my obsession stopped I continue to love boys but now it has come back again, I’m really depressed about this , I feel like I’m never gonna be me and that I will never gonna aprecciate men like I used to again I’m sorry for the long post , I just wanted some help , I know you can’t diagonose me by blog but could you tell me if this is just another obsession like the others , i’m just so sick of these thoughts. I know that I probably should went to teraphy , but right now I can’t afford it. Jonathan Hershfield May 24, 2014 at 6:53 pm - Reply Hi Adriana, sounds like you’ve been through a lot. You describe several obsessions and compulsions associated with your health and sexual orientation. I don’t see a specific question I can respond to in your post, other than your concerns that obsessing about sexual orientation may have changed you somehow. I have no idea, really. Since you cannot afford therapy, my recommendation would be to do your best to be your own therapist and stop doing compulsions (including letting go of this need to figure it all out perfectly). You can do this with the help of some of the good workbooks out there for OCD. Instead of being “sick of the thoughts” you have to accept that they may not be going anywhere anytime soon. Better to be sick of the way you respond to the thoughts, the way you allow their presence to affect your happiness and your relationship. Go to war with the compulsions. Michelle June 6, 2014 at 10:07 pm - Reply I’m 25 and have been in a relationship with my bf for 8 years. This obsession with what if I’m a lesbian popped up about 7 months ago and feels like torture! It was during a time that I was seeing a therapist and had a lot of doubt about my relationship with my bf. We had broke up for a month a few months prior to this question popping into my head. I was in hypnotherapy and it involved getting in touch with mY subconscious. Could this mean that since this question poppes up while in this therapy it is mY truth then, I’m a lesbian and its coming up now, I just didn’t want to accept it back then? I am so scared I just didn’t want to accept it and dont now even though I had boyfriends, remember boy crushes and wrote about them in my journal. I have always been shy and worried what people think, have low self esteem, so sometimes I think this makes perfect sense to not be able to accept I am lesbian I just am too scared. But I never remember questioning my sexuality until now. I never had anything against homosexuals or bisexuals and when around lesbians didn’t think anything of it. Now I get anxious if I am around someone who I think looks like a lesbian (which I know is a ridiculous stereotype). For a while i have been obsessed with looking butch (before this started even) and realiatically i dont look butch, and play sports and wonder if i was just scared to look like a lesbian because I am one. I just always didnt really like ny body. I have always been a worrier and Ruminator but not sure if I have had obsessions. One thing that sticks out is being scared of tornadoes, I would get anxious anytime there was a storm and wind and be obsessed with watching the sky, still do. I know ive read up on them and watch the weather maps but not syre if it had compulsions or chexking. I remember I worried about getting cancer, and flesh eating disease but not sure they were an obsession? I do pick at my skin on ny face a bit and arms, shouldera and chest. But not huge scabs. Its just if i feel bumps or see them i feel like i have to pop them or squeeze them. Ive spent an hour at a time close up to the mirror just squeezing anything on my face. I realize i can get into a trance sometimes abd do it when im anxious too. I love it but i hate it, i also dont actually like popping others pimples kind of gross. But I’ve never felt so consumed more about worrying about if I am a lesbian. Which makes me question if it could mean it’s true? Is it possible for it to warp into what if I am bisexual? I’ve obsessed and ruminated on this so hard it’s like I give in and say yes fine I like guys and i am attracted to them and always have been, I love my boyfriend so I say now well what if I’m attracted to girls too? I spend HOURS googling and ask my boyfriend often what he thinks. I share what I am scared of and then I feel better and the next morning I still wake up anxious. I went on medications 5 months ago for only 3 months. It seemed to help a bit I wasnt as anxious or worrying about things but i wanted to go off them. Now it feels defeating. Like I need to give in, but I don’t want to. I now keep having a memory? Vision? Of a friend of mine who I remember I would worry about what she thought of me, sometimes how I may have looked, that I didn’t always feel comfortable around her. Her mom also was married with 3 kids and divorced and is a lesbian. That has been a huge fear. What if I marry my bf and fall in love with a woman? Anyways I’m now ruminating and anxious that these interactions with my friend from high school meant I had feelings for her and could have just been butterflies? But I never remember having a crush, or finding her attractive or fantasizing about her and I could never imagine hooking up with her (because I have tried to imagine that). But I get intimidated and shy around guys I find attractive so could this have been the same thing with her? I don’t know I can’t even come up with an answer. I try to get to the root of it and accept uncertainty but I find I get more anxious. Its like if I could find the answer and know for sure I could be with my bf happily and also not worry or be anxious about it anymore. I will mention that I experimented with kissing my female friend at 14 once and lesbian porn turns me on. Ive googled this so many times it doesn’t even make me anxious right now but it did when this first started. I can logically tell myself I’ve never been attracted to a girl that way, romantically or or wanted to have sex with a girl but it doesn’t help. Even my history and relationship with mY bf doesn’t help relieve anxiety!!! I can even feel like I’m doubting the sincerity of what I am typing to you. Any advice from what you see. I read hocd blogs and Google it all the time for relief. I try to Google about how to know I am attracted to girls to get answers and sometimes I helps but mostly it gives me more anxiety. I know I can’t know for sure if its hocd but could this be? Jonathan Hershfield June 7, 2014 at 4:33 pm - Reply I responded to your first comment. This comment, unfortunately, is a very long compulsion, the end result of which is that you continue to obsess and both of us are just older. Stop googling and start demanding your life back by treating your OCD. Tee July 10, 2014 at 4:41 am - Reply Hi I’m a 30 year old married woman from india. Until a year ago I didn’t even know what hocd was. And I’ve apparently been suffering from it OR denial since I was 16. It all started when I saw the movie Cruel Intensions. There’s a scene where two actresses kiss. And I remember getting all hot and flustered and running to the bathroom. At that moment I thought I knew I was gay . It made sense. I had sneaked and seen dirty movies on tv when I was younger on cable tv, I had enjoyed seeing naughty scenes, seductively acting woman, breasts, all the Jackie Collins sensual novels. And now I made sense why I enjoyed it so much . It was cause I was gay. From then on watching any kind of tv became a nightmare . I’d be scared to even see a woman in short clothing, I’d think I’d be aroused. I wanted to tell my parents but I just didn’t. I prayed to god everyday to change me. I really prayed. On one side there was this turmoil. The other side was school, I went to an all girl catholic school , had tones of friends and loved boy bands and wrote love stories about me and men. My favourite actors, Jason Priesly from 90210, David Charvet from Baywatch. And I had the best friends , we d gossip ,party , chill together . There were barely any boys in my life growing up. My family had none and school and it’s related activities limited it to all girl interaction. We’d have sleepovers, do quizzes , prank call ppl. Not once was I ever attracted to any if them. But after this I started getting scared to hang out with them once in awhile. But I would get over it and hang out with them and do the same stuff I always did. I was always scared I was gay, but never with real ppl. Just when I’d see ppl on tv . I would never imagine being with them. Till date it’s something I don’t do. Anyway life went on I’d be scared that I could be turned on by all women , including my family. I was so scared and ashamed . Then I got into college. Surprise surprise, a top of the line all girls college again !!! What was I thinking. When I was in college ,I started meeting a few men. I was 19 years old when I began to date my first real boyfriend. And he was trouble, super intelligent, uber talented, cute and with a temper to match. I was smitten, within a week he told me he loved me , and things got super intense. And then there was the sex. It was amazing. We d have it ever, I was beyond in love. But it was an abusive relationship he d put me down, make me feel bad about myself. It would hurt my chest when he would. There’d be breakups and make ups and fights and drama. And this went on for 4 years on and off. Till eventually god intervened and he went to Italy for work. After that I was immediately persued by better more attractive men. But nothing ever felt the way he did. The gay thought stayed in my head the whole time while I was with him. After college I went to design school. Surrounded by super creative talented and somewhat emotionally unstable ppl. It was awesome. But since I was a few years older, I became like I always have been The person everyone told there issues too. Cutting, abuse ,domestic disturbances. Everything. It was in 2nd year that something bad started happening to me , I started seeing scary images in my head, blood, gore, death, graphic details. I’d imagine hurting myself. I thought I was becoming a serial killer. I turned to god, I prayed and prayed and he helped me. I read deepak chopra, self help books .until finally one year later I decided to go to my parents, to tell them there daughter was dangerous and had gone a bit mad. In my early 20s was the first time I went to a doctor. Who diagnosed me with clinical OCD.this was a shock to me . I was the more untidy person I knew. How could I have OCD? He put me on medication, and within a few days I was better. I was shocked that that’s all it took. But the gay thing remained. I didn’t and sometimes still don’t relate that to OCD. During this struggle, I made an amazing friend. The happiest, nicest, funnest man I ever knew. I had known him earlier, but lots of texting and fun hitting on finally led me to decide to date him. There was no attraction as such between us. But I was always laughing ,and always wanted to touch him , rest on him, hug him. It was later that we started to date . And now 5 years later we are married. A few years ago my father was diagnosed with cancer , my aunt and my best friends mom died of cancer. That year I had my first panic attack. I wanted to die, I felt like I’d jump or fall off the edge of a building. I went to my doc the next day after a scary expirence. And be upped my meds and suggested I go to a therapist as well. This changed my life , I learned cbt and gor the first time ever I was not scared of my thoughts. I could say no and stop them. All but the lesbian thing, I keep repeating the words in my head , ( I’m gay, I’m gay, I’m gay) I explained to her that I thought I was gay even though I was with a man. I said I was turned on by women on tv, more than men. At times my breasts will rise when I’m with my friends( I have the same girlfriends in mylife since school. All off whom are physically stunning ) for no reason at all . And that would scare me. It’s like my heart is telling me I’m gay. She asked me simply if I had ever wanted to be with them. And I said no. Never. It’s been a year since I stpped going to my therapist . But now I feel like I need to again. I wake up most mornings feeling like I’m living a lie, in my head.( I’m gay I’m gay I’m gay ) keeps on repeating itself. And off late I find myself warm , flushed turned in for no reason. Especially around women. It’s like a voice inside me keeps telling me I’m gay always. Even tho I’ve never been in love with a woman. But suddenly I don’t want to meet my friends alone and at time when I do I’m hot , wet and my nipple are hard. Not that I’m fantasizing about them but just even just having a conversation on the phone will do this to me. I’m so confused. And I think it’s so unfair to my husband. He deserves someone who’s sure of themselves . I’m not madly attracted to him, and sometimes that’s the scariest thing. But I am myself with him, with all my darkness, gayness, ocdness. And he makes me laugh all the time. Please help me, am I gay ? Ps. Sorry for the super long post Jonathan Hershfield July 14, 2014 at 5:31 pm - Reply >>>>Hi I’m a 30 year old married woman from india. Until a year ago I didn’t even know what hocd was. And I’ve apparently been suffering from it OR denial since I was 16. —Don’t rule out the possibility that it’s both… >>>>It all started when I saw the movie Cruel Intensions. There’s a scene where two actresses kiss. —I remember that scene… though probably for different reasons. >>>>And I remember getting all hot and flustered and running to the bathroom. At that moment I thought I knew I was gay . It made sense. I had sneaked and seen dirty movies on tv when I was younger on cable tv, I had enjoyed seeing naughty scenes, seductively acting woman, breasts, all the Jackie Collins sensual novels. And now I made sense why I enjoyed it so much . It was cause I was gay. —This theory relies on a belief that when a person is capable of enjoying a same-sex-themed state of arousal, then it must mean they are a homosexual. That is a theory, not a fact. >>>>From then on watching any kind of tv became a nightmare . I’d be scared to even see a woman in short clothing, I’d think I’d be aroused. I wanted to tell my parents but I just didn’t. I prayed to god everyday to change me. I really prayed. On one side there was this turmoil. The other side was school, I went to an all girl catholic school , had tones of friends and loved boy bands and wrote love stories about me and men. My favourite actors, Jason Priesly from 90210, David Charvet from Baywatch. And I had the best friends , we d gossip ,party , chill together . There were barely any boys in my life growing up. My family had none and school and it’s related activities limited it to all girl interaction. We’d have sleepovers, do quizzes , prank call ppl. Not once was I ever attracted to any if them. But after this I started getting scared to hang out with them once in awhile. But I would get over it and hang out with them and do the same stuff I always did. I was always scared I was gay, but never with real ppl. Just when I’d see ppl on tv . I would never imagine being with them. Till date it’s something I don’t do. —Maybe you are a new form of sexual orientation that’s only gay-for-tv. What would that mean about what you do with the rest of your life? Probably doesn’t mean much. Since everyone has a fantasy life that is, by definition, different from real life, having a gay fantasy life shouldn’t say much about one’s sexual orientation overall. >>>>Anyway life went on I’d be scared that I could be turned on by all women , including my family. I was so scared and ashamed . —This can be horrifying for those who struggle with these kinds of intrusive thoughts, but it is not an uncommon form of obsessing in OCD. If you got a professional assessment for OCD, one of the questions would be about whether you have intrusive sexual thoughts about family members. >>>>Then I got into college. Surprise surprise, a top of the line all girls college again !!! What was I thinking. When I was in college ,I started meeting a few men. I was 19 years old when I began to date my first real boyfriend. And he was trouble, super intelligent, uber talented, cute and with a temper to match. I was smitten, within a week he told me he loved me , and things got super intense. And then there was the sex. It was amazing. We d have it ever, I was beyond in love. But it was an abusive relationship he d put me down, make me feel bad about myself. It would hurt my chest when he would. There’d be breakups and make ups and fights and drama. And this went on for 4 years on and off. Till eventually god intervened and he went to Italy for work. After that I was immediately persued by better more attractive men. But nothing ever felt the way he did. The gay thought stayed in my head the whole time while I was with him. After college I went to design school. Surrounded by super creative talented and somewhat emotionally unstable ppl. It was awesome. But since I was a few years older, I became like I always have been The person everyone told there issues too. Cutting, abuse ,domestic disturbances. Everything. It was in 2nd year that something bad started happening to me , I started seeing scary images in my head, blood, gore, death, graphic details. I’d imagine hurting myself. I thought I was becoming a serial killer. —As you may already know, this too is a very common manifestation of OCD sometimes referred to as Harm OCD. You can read my blogs on the subject if interested. >>>I turned to god, I prayed and prayed and he helped me. I read deepak chopra, self help books .until finally one year later I decided to go to my parents, to tell them there daughter was dangerous and had gone a bit mad. In my early 20s was the first time I went to a doctor. Who diagnosed me with clinical OCD.this was a shock to me . I was the more untidy person I knew. How could I have OCD? —Yes, it;s a common misconception about OCD, that it’s all about being clean and organized. Ironically many of the people I have treated with the form of OCD that focuses on cleanliness were the least hygienic and most disorganized because touching and cleaning things has become so overwhelming that they avoid so much of it! >>>>He put me on medication, and within a few days I was better. I was shocked that that’s all it took. But the gay thing remained. I didn’t and sometimes still don’t relate that to OCD. During this struggle, I made an amazing friend. The happiest, nicest, funnest man I ever knew. I had known him earlier, but lots of texting and fun hitting on finally led me to decide to date him. There was no attraction as such between us. But I was always laughing ,and always wanted to touch him , rest on him, hug him. It was later that we started to date . And now 5 years later we are married. A few years ago my father was diagnosed with cancer , my aunt and my best friends mom died of cancer. That year I had my first panic attack. I wanted to die, I felt like I’d jump or fall off the edge of a building. I went to my doc the next day after a scary expirence. And be upped my meds and suggested I go to a therapist as well. This changed my life , I learned cbt and gor the first time ever I was not scared of my thoughts. I could say no and stop them. —Sorry to hear about your father’s illness. That’s great that you finally got treatment for your OCD. >>>>All but the lesbian thing, I keep repeating the words in my head , ( I’m gay, I’m gay, I’m gay) I explained to her that I thought I was gay even though I was with a man. I said I was turned on by women on tv, more than men. At times my breasts will rise when I’m with my friends( I have the same girlfriends in mylife since school. All off whom are physically stunning ) for no reason at all . And that would scare me. It’s like my heart is telling me I’m gay. She asked me simply if I had ever wanted to be with them. And I said no. Never. It’s been a year since I stpped going to my therapist . But now I feel like I need to again. I wake up most mornings feeling like I’m living a lie, in my head.( I’m gay I’m gay I’m gay ) keeps on repeating itself. And off late I find myself warm , flushed turned in for no reason. Especially around women. It’s like a voice inside me keeps telling me I’m gay always. Even tho I’ve never been in love with a woman. But suddenly I don’t want to meet my friends alone and at time when I do I’m hot , wet and my nipple are hard. Not that I’m fantasizing about them but just even just having a conversation on the phone will do this to me. I’m so confused. And I think it’s so unfair to my husband. He deserves someone who’s sure of themselves . I’m not madly attracted to him, and sometimes that’s the scariest thing. But I am myself with him, with all my darkness, gayness, ocdness. And he makes me laugh all the time. Please help me, am I gay ? Ps. Sorry for the super long post —-I can’t know if you’re gay. There’d be no way for me to know. I’m just some guy on the internet. What I can say is that in the last paragraph of your post you described several classic compulsive behaviors associated with OCD and related to an obsession you have with your sexual orientation. My recommendation would be to treat the issue like an obsession because that’s what it looks the most like, do CBT with exposure/response prevention, and confront your fear of uncertainty about orientation and denial. Do the opposite of what the OCD wants and invest in enjoying thoughts you enjoy and accepting thoughts you don’t enjoy without constantly trying to change or perfect them. Nicole July 13, 2014 at 8:13 am - Reply Hello, I’m a girl who hopefully is just going through HOCD. I’ve never been diagnosed before, but I hope that’s what this is. I’m over-analyzing every little thing I did in my childhood that fuels the HOCD. It’s like my brain is picking out those experimental/curious experiences I had in childhood and making me doubt myself even more. Those are the worries that reinforced my anxiety, which I’m still living with today. I don’t have as many intrusive images as I used to, but I do have thoughts that spontaneously pop up in my head that tell me “I’m gay” or “You’re gay.” I just find it strange that I didn’t have a crush on a boy until 9th grade. Maybe that has nothing to do with anything and everyone is just different in those terms. Is it normal for those with HOCD to have “fake” crushes? They’re not like the legitimate ones I’ve had on boys before, as in they bring me absolutely no joy whatsoever. In fact, they’re very distressing and fuel the doubt. My brain keeps making me notice these certain people, or “fake crushes” and sometimes I’ll get leaps in my stomach from seeing them and I’ll get extremely nervous. Again, they’re nothing like the crushes I’ve had on boys. I over analyze the feelings that go on in my body and perhaps that’s part of the OCD? I go to my mom for reassurance, and mind you, she doesn’t know that much about OCD, but she tells me that if I have it, it’s very mild. I didn’t display any OCD tendencies when I was a younger; not to my recollection at least, but I was a fearful child and have ruminated obsessively about certain things. The only time I recall doing anything OCD related when I was younger was when I was walking to the park one time, and out of nowhere, I became extremely fearful that I was walking like a man, so I corrected my walking pattern. I also tried changing my voice and acting way more girly. I can’t remember how young I was, but I remember being overwhelmed with fear. It’s just that my mother raised me, so she was always observant of me and if she didn’t notice anything “off” about the way I behaved, then how can I call this OCD? Not everyone with OCD displayed those behaviors in childhood, right? Can people develop it at any age? Last question, but I read somewhere that sexuality and sexual orientation do not tend to match up. As in, you can be sexually aroused by pretty much anything, but that doesn’t mean you’re interested in engaging in sexual acts with what caused you arousal? Is that correct? I used to get groinal responses all of the time, but now I’m actually getting wet. I can’t say that I know for sure what caused me to be wet, but it causes me so much doubt when I go to check in the bathroom (I do this quite frequently, even though I know I should stop). Checking myself doesn’t bring me relief like it should. In fact, checking myself has only brought me relief a few times. I do find a woman’s body sexually appealing and it does cause me arousal, but I don’t want to sleep with or have relations with one. Despite knowing this, I’m having a hard time being attracted to guys like I used to be. Is diminished attraction all a part of this? My HOCD almost always come back in summer, too. It’s driving me nuts. Jonathan Hershfield July 14, 2014 at 5:46 pm - Reply >>>>Hello, I’m a girl who hopefully is just going through HOCD. I’ve never been diagnosed before, but I hope that’s what this is. I’m over-analyzing every little thing I did in my childhood —sounds like OCD. >>>> that fuels the HOCD. It’s like my brain is picking out those experimental/curious experiences I had in childhood and making me doubt myself even more. Those are the worries that reinforced my anxiety, which I’m still living with today. I don’t have as many intrusive images as I used to, but I do have thoughts that spontaneously pop up in my head that tell me “I’m gay” or “You’re gay.” I just find it strange that I didn’t have a crush on a boy until 9th grade. Maybe that has nothing to do with anything and everyone is just different in those terms. —Yes. >>>Is it normal for those with HOCD to have “fake” crushes? They’re not like the legitimate ones I’ve had on boys before, as in they bring me absolutely no joy whatsoever. In fact, they’re very distressing and fuel the doubt. My brain keeps making me notice these certain people, or “fake crushes” and sometimes I’ll get leaps in my stomach from seeing them and I’ll get extremely nervous. Again, they’re nothing like the crushes I’ve had on boys. I over analyze the feelings that go on in my body and perhaps that’s part of the OCD? —Right. I would say that what you are describing as “fake crushes” is really just feeling some kind of connection or attraction to another human being. The word “attraction” doesn’t have to mean “desire to have sex with.” I’m “attracted” to people who are smart, kind, talented, have interesting features, etc. By this I mean, I am drawn to being near them or thinking about them. This has nothing to do with sex. The analysis you describe is a mental ritual aimed at getting certainty that it has nothing to do with sex, and that’s how the OCD is allowed to persist. >>>>I go to my mom for reassurance, and mind you, she doesn’t know that much about OCD, but she tells me that if I have it, it’s very mild. I didn’t display any OCD tendencies when I was a younger; not to my recollection at least, but I was a fearful child and have ruminated obsessively about certain things. —So you go to your mother to engage in a compulsion called reassurance-seeking and then she responds to this compulsion by saying you might not have obsessive compulsive disorder or it’s very mild. Interesting. Sounds more moderate than mild to me. >>>>The only time I recall doing anything OCD related when I was younger was when I was walking to the park one time, and out of nowhere, I became extremely fearful that I was walking like a man, so I corrected my walking pattern. I also tried changing my voice and acting way more girly. I can’t remember how young I was, but I remember being overwhelmed with fear. —Since many people don’t develop OCD until they are adults, combing through your childhood for diagnostic evidence is probably not a useful strategy. >>>It’s just that my mother raised me, so she was always observant of me and if she didn’t notice anything “off” about the way I behaved, then how can I call this OCD? Not everyone with OCD displayed those behaviors in childhood, right? Can people develop it at any age? —See above. >>>>Last question, but I read somewhere that sexuality and sexual orientation do not tend to match up. As in, you can be sexually aroused by pretty much anything, but that doesn’t mean you’re interested in engaging in sexual acts with what caused you arousal? Is that correct? —I would agree with this statement. Or rather, I would say that arousal does not guarantee desire to engage, rather than argue that it certainly does or does not. >>>>I used to get groinal responses all of the time, but now I’m actually getting wet. I can’t say that I know for sure what caused me to be wet, but it causes me so much doubt when I go to check in the bathroom (I do this quite frequently, even though I know I should stop). Checking myself doesn’t bring me relief like it should. In fact, checking myself has only brought me relief a few times. —Checking is a compulsion and, like other compulsions, it brings intermittent temporary relief and then a worsening of the obsession that drives it. >>>I do find a woman’s body sexually appealing and it does cause me arousal, but I don’t want to sleep with or have relations with one. Despite knowing this, I’m having a hard time being attracted to guys like I used to be. Is diminished attraction all a part of this? —There are any number of reasons why attraction to one’s historical orientation type might diminish. The two most likely reasons I can think of are anxiety (which you have) and compulsive attempts to “try to be attracted”, which block the spontaneous experience of attraction. >>>>My HOCD almost always come back in summer, too. It’s driving me nuts. —My recommendation is to get CBT treatment from an OCD specialist. Max July 15, 2014 at 7:02 pm - Reply Hi Jon, after reading a few articles of your blog, i came to the conclusion, that i suffer from what I would think is (h)ocd and now I’m considering engaging in CBT. (After all that, and due to the fact, that I am not a doctor, I’m not 100% sure that i have the condition) After I realised that “fact” I read a few websites, concerning that disorder and now I have a few questions. Is it possible to suffer from this disease in a mild form, i.e. that one only gets certain unwanted thoughts in special “triggering” situations, but aside from that one is not THAT bothered by “disturbing thoughts”? I mean is it common to only have “obsessive thoughts” concerning one area in one’s life (e.g. homosexuality) but aside from that, no other obsessions? And another question: I read that most doctors prefer to use medication AND cbt because it will give you the “best” outcome….. What are your experiences referring that issue? Is it possible to overcome, i.e. live with the condition and get “better and better” over time with recognizing distorted thoughts and so on? Because from what I read (on the internet), medication and especially long term medication is somehow always what most (?) people have to do to really feel good… This really makes me feel depressed, as i don’t want to take this medicine maybe “for ever”…. => is the decision if to use medicine somewhat dependent on the severity of the symptoms / the disorder? Greetings Max Jonathan Hershfield July 15, 2014 at 7:45 pm - Reply >>>>after reading a few articles of your blog, i came to the conclusion, that i suffer from what I would think is (h)ocd and now I’m considering engaging in CBT. (After all that, and due to the fact, that I am not a doctor, I’m not 100% sure that i have the condition) —Yes, unfortunately doubt about the diagnosis is one of the symptoms of the disorder. Still, goof that you are considering getting treatment. >>>>After I realised that “fact” I read a few websites, concerning that disorder and now I have a few questions. Is it possible to suffer from this disease in a mild form, i.e. that one only gets certain unwanted thoughts in special “triggering” situations, but aside from that one is not THAT bothered by “disturbing thoughts”? I mean is it common to only have “obsessive thoughts” concerning one area in one’s life (e.g. homosexuality) but aside from that, no other obsessions? —–Not unusual. >>>And another question: I read that most doctors prefer to use medication AND cbt because it will give you the “best” outcome….. What are your experiences referring that issue? —The research seems to show only a slight difference between CBT and CBT-plus-meds in terms of treatment success. I think when medication helps, it does so largely by allowing the person taking the medication to more effectively engage in the CBT when they might otherwise be too depressed or overly prone to panic to really commit to the work. >>>Is it possible to overcome, i.e. live with the condition and get “better and better” over time with recognizing distorted thoughts and so on? Because from what I read (on the internet), medication and especially long term medication is somehow always what most (?) people have to do to really feel good… —I don’t think that what you’re reading on the internet is particularly accurate. Many people benefit from medication and use it long term, but many people benefit from medication and only use it for a few months to help them get through the hardest parts of treatment, and many people still are able to improve without medication. It depends on a number of factors. >>>This really makes me feel depressed, as i don’t want to take this medicine maybe “for ever”…. => is the decision if to use medicine somewhat dependent on the severity of the symptoms / the disorder? —Yes, severity of the disorder, co-morbid diagnoses (like depression), and other issues may inform the decision to use medication alongside CBT. Probably the best approach would be to begin doing CBT with an OCD specialist and discuss with them the role that medication might play if you were to consider it. If you decide it’s in your best interest, then you would consult with a psychiatrist to determine what the appropriate medication might be and what your expectations should be for length of use. Using medication is not some kind of acceptance of defeat or some kind of character failure, nor is using medication always necessary. The important thing is to make informed mental health decisions based on evidence and based on your specific needs. Nicole July 20, 2014 at 2:49 pm - Reply I have one more question regarding HOCD. I’m trying my hardest to accept certain thoughts, but now they’re popping up whenever I’m masturbating. I’ll be fine for a little bit, but then, all of a sudden, a picture of naked women or her body pops up in my mind (out of no where) and my heart starts racing like crazy. I feel it’s because of the anxiety, but I wasn’t worrying about being gay or not beforehand, so why would that cause me anxiety? Or was it even anxiety? Has this obsession penetrated my subconscious now? Afterwards, I noticed that I was wetter, but I’m not sure if it was because I had been masturbating for a while or if it was because of the image. If I’m not masturbating, and these images were to pop up in my mind, then it wouldn’t be as bad, but what are these sudden “spikes” of anxiety? Is that what they are? Jonathan Hershfield July 22, 2014 at 3:49 am - Reply >>>>I have one more question regarding HOCD. —That’s what everyone says. 😉 >>>>I’m trying my hardest to accept certain thoughts, but now they’re popping up whenever I’m masturbating. I’ll be fine for a little bit, but then, all of a sudden, a picture of naked women or her body pops up in my mind (out of no where) and my heart starts racing like crazy. I feel it’s because of the anxiety, but I wasn’t worrying about being gay or not beforehand, so why would that cause me anxiety? Or was it even anxiety? Has this obsession penetrated my subconscious now? —I don’t know what the word “subconscious” means. People use it a lot but from what I can tell it doesn’t actually mean anything. You have a brain, brains have thoughts, and you sometimes happen to notice this phenomenon. When we engage in sexual behavior, particular self-sexual behavior in which we are trying to manipulate the mind to attend to something sexual, we put a high value on our ability to focus. Whenever we put a high value on anything, the OCD is likely to make itself known. It’s hard not to think of things that could get in the way when you really don;t want things to get in the way. Such is life without OCD. Rather than analyze WHY the thought is there, you can either make the choice to allow the thought to sit in the background or allow the thought to sit in the foreground and enjoy it. Background or foregoruns – in other words, a little attention or a lot of attention. There is no un-think option. >>>>Afterwards, I noticed that I was wetter, but I’m not sure if it was because I had been masturbating for a while or if it was because of the image. If I’m not masturbating, and these images were to pop up in my mind, then it wouldn’t be as bad, but what are these sudden “spikes” of anxiety? Is that what they are? —It would be pointless to try to get certainty regarding why a person might become more lubricated or erect in the presence of any particular thought. However, it is reasonable to assume that you are like most people and most people find the taboo to be stimulating, whether it represents their preferred or historical choices or not. The nice thing about fantasy is that it is the one place you are completely free to experiment without consequences. Angie July 29, 2014 at 9:40 am - Reply Hello, together! I am glad to have found these sides here. I am a 34-year-old woman and feel like in a nightmare – as if I was not any more myself. Everything has begun two years ago. I was in the sports course and found out suddenly out of a clear sky that I found the trainer attractive! I was absolutely panic and considered from then on 24 hours on the day whether I was lesbian. I felt only better if I could “neutralise” my thoughts. Before I have enjoyed only affairs with men and this also very much. However, I remembered that I had found engaging schonmal a costudent and my dancing instructor, besides, to me, however, nothing had thought. I found out on the Internet that it had to concern HOCD. This calmed me and after a few weeks the compulsive thoughts became better. I fell in love round Christmas violently with a man, but it came to no respect because he did not want. . Nevertheless, it was a wonderful feeling to be in love and I have enjoyed it very much. When i masturbate I only did to videos from men..I liked their genitals.. I have wasted no more thought to be lesbian or bisexual. Now my nightmare began again during a group journey two weeks ago. I made friends with a woman of the same age and we became friends. I must admit that I found her very attractive and anyhow engagingly. Sometimes I have considered like it would be to kiss her and would have found it maybe even nice no notion! I admired her for her appearance and would have been with pleasure as well as this womany. Again at home I have almost gone crazy. In the morning when I wake up it is the worst. I think all the time what if I am suddenly lesbian ? Then I must confess it to all people and am an outsider. Then my dream of a family does not come true!! I think a lot of this woman and find so a pity that I do not see her any more I was with pleasure in her nearness. I would like to have a friendship to her with pleasure furthermore and miss her because we have now no more contact at the moment, but is this called that I am suddenly lesbian?? Am I allowed to miss her although i am hetero? Me feel quite foreign and not at all like me myself, but how a stranger – as if I joined in in a film which hopefully is soon to an end. What is wrong only with me? Is the HOCD again?? I have to nothing more desire and would want only that this state goes past… that I wake up from this dream and be again myself. Sometimes I can neutralise the thoughts and talk myself that I can be friends normally with her and I am not lesbian and the contact will not break off. Then I feel better for a short time ….. I believe I also have big loss fears! At the same time I have the feeling that I lie to friends and family .., moreover, I have to tell the irresistible urge to tell everything to my mother or a friend .. what do you think what is wrong with me? Suddenly I do not feel attracted by men! Bevor my journey I was absoluteley attracted by men…what has happened? I dont feel anything… Sorry for my bad english!! Jonathan Hershfield August 3, 2014 at 12:01 am - Reply >>>>Hello, together! I am glad to have found these sides here. I am a 34-year-old woman and feel like in a nightmare – as if I was not any more myself. Everything has begun two years ago. I was in the sports course and found out suddenly out of a clear sky that I found the trainer attractive! I was absolutely panic and considered from then on 24 hours on the day whether I was lesbian. I felt only better if I could “neutralise” my thoughts. Before I have enjoyed only affairs with men and this also very much. However, I remembered that I had found engaging schonmal a costudent and my dancing instructor, besides, to me, however, nothing had thought. I found out on the Internet that it had to concern HOCD. This calmed me and after a few weeks the compulsive thoughts became better. I fell in love round Christmas violently with a man, but it came to no respect because he did not want. . Nevertheless, it was a wonderful feeling to be in love and I have enjoyed it very much. When i masturbate I only did to videos from men..I liked their genitals.. —Whatever works. >>>>I have wasted no more thought to be lesbian or bisexual. Now my nightmare began again during a group journey two weeks ago. I made friends with a woman of the same age and we became friends. I must admit that I found her very attractive and anyhow engagingly. Sometimes I have considered like it would be to kiss her and would have found it maybe even nice no notion! I admired her for her appearance and would have been with pleasure as well as this womany. Again at home I have almost gone crazy. In the morning when I wake up it is the worst. I think all the time what if I am suddenly lesbian ? —This is an obsessive thought. The answer i the same for all “what if” thoughts, which is that you will deal with it when it needs to be dealt with. Compulsively trying to deal with it ahead of time is just making the thought seem more threatening. >>>Then I must confess it to all people and am an outsider. Then my dream of a family does not come true!! —These are catastrophic assumptions based on theories about what choices you might make in the future. They are not facts. >>>>I think a lot of this woman and find so a pity that I do not see her any more I was with pleasure in her nearness. I would like to have a friendship to her with pleasure furthermore and miss her because we have now no more contact at the moment, but is this called that I am suddenly lesbian?? Am I allowed to miss her although i am hetero? —I think you should consider what it means that you are asking a stranger on the internet what you are “allowed” to do with yourself. >>>>Me feel quite foreign and not at all like me myself, but how a stranger – as if I joined in in a film which hopefully is soon to an end. What is wrong only with me? Is the HOCD again?? I have to nothing more desire and would want only that this state goes past… that I wake up from this dream and be again myself. Sometimes I can neutralise the thoughts and talk myself that I can be friends normally with her and I am not lesbian and the contact will not break off. Then I feel better for a short time ….. —Thought neutralization is a compulsion. You rationalize and analyze why it is ok or not ok to have certain feelings and this leads to more obsessing only. What you need is to accept that you have thoughts and feelings and their meaning is uncertain. You can develop this acceptance by treating your OCD with CBT. >>>>I believe I also have big loss fears! At the same time I have the feeling that I lie to friends and family .., moreover, I have to tell the irresistible urge to tell everything to my mother or a friend .. what do you think what is wrong with me? —You are describing compulsive confessing. So one thing wrong is that you are doing compulsions. >>>Suddenly I do not feel attracted by men! Bevor my journey I was absoluteley attracted by men…what has happened? I dont feel anything… —Loss of libido is a common symptom of anxiety. It is also a predictable result of engaging in compulsive analysis of sexually-themed thoughts and feelings. >>>Sorry for my bad english!! —Not sure where you are writing from, but my recommendation is to get treatment for your OCD from a therapist who does cognitive behavioral therapy. Chris August 5, 2014 at 11:17 pm - Reply Hi, would firstly like to say how great and helpful your responses to these queries are and I hope they continue. I’m 17 years old and think I potentially have had ‘HOCD’ for 5 months, prior to this ‘HOCD’ I had been hyper-conscious of my heartbeat and was convinced I had a heart problem, so would constantly check my heartbeat to ensure it was still beating fine, after a while I managed to get to grips with this problem and it wasn’t affecting me so much, this leads me to my current problem. I was at a party for the first time in a few months and was dared by my friend to peck a boy on the lips, as I was so comfortable with my sexuality (I’m sexually active and have a girlfriend of almost a year who I love a lot) I did it, and straight away got thoughts like ‘am I gay?’ ‘What if I’m gay’, however I managed to suppress these thoughts for a few days, I then saw the boy who I kissed a few days later and instantly the thoughts came back but worse. Prior to this I had genuinely never doubted my sexuality and have slept with multiple girls and never not enjoyed it. However I’ve had thoughts that I’ve been living a lie for pretty much my whole life and as a consequence I’m often deeply depressed. I often spend hours a day browsing threads and forums to find stories similar to mine, or read coming out stories to feel the relief of the words ‘I knew I was gay/different from a young age’, however I read one story out of the hundreds which said he thought he was straight and suddenly turned gay, and this mans face pops into my head when I’m thinking about it sometimes, much to my horror. I have also recently started masturbating to gay porn and then straight porn directly after in order to prove I’m still more attracted to straight porn. I also sometimes masturbate to nothing to see if it feels better than when I’m watching gay stuff(Sometimes it gets to the stage when I use a ruler to measure how much bigger my penis is after straight porn). Yet there is this overhanging doubt and fear that I’m using these compulsions as an excuse to prevent me from finding out I’m gay. Also, i often worry that I’m not as anxious and don’t have as many unwanted thoughts as people with HOCD, and this means I’m just using it as an excuse for this sudden change in sexuality. I often find myself praying that ‘the inevitable’ doesn’t happen to me and wishing I could feel how I used to and live a happy future with my girlfriend, however every day this seems less and less plausible. I’m highly anxious and often become hyper aware of my penis whenever I see an attractive man when I’m out and when I see an attractive woman it just feels second nature, although my sex drive has gone down in the last few months. Also, are intrusive thoughts always obvious? Because although I often find myself ruminating in my past to find inklings of gayness, I can’t often remember the initial thought. I have started seeing a therapist who has diagnosed me with HOCD however during therapy I have thoughts that the therapist thinks I’m gay and just wants me to find out for myself, and I often come out of therapy feeling worse than I was initially. I pray that there’s a way out of this and that I can get better and feel even a bit more like how I used to feel, but everyday th Jonathan Hershfield August 6, 2014 at 4:43 pm - Reply >>>>Hi, would firstly like to say how great and helpful your responses to these queries are and I hope they continue. —Thanks! >>>>I’m 17 years old and think I potentially have had ‘HOCD’ for 5 months, prior to this ‘HOCD’ I had been hyper-conscious of my heartbeat and was convinced I had a heart problem, so would constantly check my heartbeat to ensure it was still beating fine, after a while I managed to get to grips with this problem and it wasn’t affecting me so much, this leads me to my current problem. —-I’m not sure what the correlation is, but I have seen a lot of HOCD sufferers with a previous history of health anxiety. My guess is they both have something to do with a fear of not being in control of the body somehow. >>>I was at a party for the first time in a few months and was dared by my friend to peck a boy on the lips, as I was so comfortable with my sexuality (I’m sexually active and have a girlfriend of almost a year who I love a lot) I did it, and straight away got thoughts like ‘am I gay?’ ‘What if I’m gay’, however I managed to suppress these thoughts for a few days, I then saw the boy who I kissed a few days later and instantly the thoughts came back but worse. Prior to this I had genuinely never doubted my sexuality and have slept with multiple girls and never not enjoyed it. However I’ve had thoughts that I’ve been living a lie for pretty much my whole life and as a consequence I’m often deeply depressed. —You are not depressed because of the thoughts but because you are choosing to interpret them a specific way. After all, surely you are not the only straight man to have kissed another man for some reason (consider the actors in Brokeback Mountain for example). Undoubtedly other people in similar situations would be likely to have thoughts about it. But how those thoughts are interpreted and responded to will determine whether or not it becomes obsessive. >>>>I often spend hours a day browsing threads and forums to find stories similar to mine, or read coming out stories to feel the relief of the words ‘I knew I was gay/different from a young age’, however I read one story out of the hundreds which said he thought he was straight and suddenly turned gay, and this mans face pops into my head when I’m thinking about it sometimes, much to my horror. —The online reassurance seeking is a compulsion. You eventually get burned by compulsions, and here is no different. The results of a compulsion are not useful or reliable information, whether they make you feel like a straight or gay person. >>>>I have also recently started masturbating to gay porn and then straight porn directly after in order to prove I’m still more attracted to straight porn. —This is a terrible idea and a compulsion that is guaranteed to backfire and cause you significantly worse HOCD symptoms in the longrun. >>>>I also sometimes masturbate to nothing to see if it feels better than when I’m watching gay stuff(Sometimes it gets to the stage when I use a ruler to measure how much bigger my penis is after straight porn). Yet there is this overhanging doubt and fear that I’m using these compulsions as an excuse to prevent me from finding out I’m gay. —Compulsive testing in this regard is problematic for two reasons. First, all compulsive testing sends the message to the brain that you should be in doubt about your sexual orientation and that there is something to test for. This is the opposite of what you want. Second, it reinforces the distorted belief that what you are capable of being aroused by is an indicator of your orientation. There is no evidence to support his theory. You can get yourself erect thinking about a tree if you think hard enough. That hardly makes you an arborsexual. >>>Also, i often worry that I’m not as anxious and don’t have as many unwanted thoughts as people with HOCD, and this means I’m just using it as an excuse for this sudden change in sexuality. —Though this is a common obsessive fear in HOCD, your behavior suggests you are more anxious than you are acknowledging. Why would a relaxed person do the types of time consuming voluntary rituals you commit yourself too? This may be one reason you persist in them, to make sure you still have OCD. It’s a trap. >>>>I often find myself praying that ‘the inevitable’ doesn’t happen to me and wishing I could feel how I used to and live a happy future with my girlfriend, however every day this seems less and less plausible. —These praying and wishing rituals are mental compulsions that fuel the obsessive doubt. >>>I’m highly anxious and often become hyper aware of my penis whenever I see an attractive man when I’m out and when I see an attractive woman it just feels second nature, although my sex drive has gone down in the last few months. Also, are intrusive thoughts always obvious? Because although I often find myself ruminating in my past to find inklings of gayness, I can’t often remember the initial thought. —All very typical. >>>I have started seeing a therapist who has diagnosed me with HOCD however during therapy I have thoughts that the therapist thinks I’m gay and just wants me to find out for myself, and I often come out of therapy feeling worse than I was initially. I pray that there’s a way out of this and that I can get better and feel even a bit more like how I used to feel, but everyday the fears seem more real. —Clients often tell me they think I am going to drop a bomb on them at some point, reveal that I think they’re gay (or a pedophile or a sociopath or whatever…). If your therapist is an ocd specialist, just follow their lead. You may have to incorporate your fear of being identified by the therapist as gay into your ERP treatment. >>>Also, little did I know when I stumbled across HOCD, but two of my cousins have also suffered from this horrible illness. —Interesting. OCD does appear to run in families and have a genetic component. Angie August 6, 2014 at 7:28 am - Reply Thanks a lot for your comment! Well, I wonder why my anxiety and my horrible feelings are always worse in the morning…in the evening I feel better.there is really a big difference..Is there a reason for? So and I have one more question: I don´t feel like me anymore-I feel like a different person; like a stranger…. just very, very strange:-(I feel like playing a role in movie or in a nightmare. Is this typicical for HOCD? Well, I am writing to you from Germany. It is very difficicult to find a good therapist who is familiar with HOCD…do you have an ieda where I can find a good one? greetings Angie Jonathan Hershfield August 6, 2014 at 4:55 pm - Reply >>>>Thanks a lot for your comment! Well, I wonder why my anxiety and my horrible feelings are always worse in the morning…in the evening I feel better.there is really a big difference..Is there a reason for? —Not really sure, but many people report their symptoms to be worst in the morning. My guess is it has something to do with the semi-depressed state we are naturally in when we first awake, which takes some time to metabolize, during which the OCD just runs wild. You can speed up the process and minimize the OCD by getting active immediately after waking up. In other words, jump out of bed right after the alarm, get dressed, make breakfast, etc., and go into task-mode instead of mental review-mode. >>>>So and I have one more question: I don´t feel like me anymore-I feel like a different person; like a stranger…. just very, very strange:-(I feel like playing a role in movie or in a nightmare. Is this typicical for HOCD? —This experience is typical of high anxiety and panic. >>>>Well, I am writing to you from Germany. It is very difficicult to find a good therapist who is familiar with HOCD…do you have an ieda where I can find a good one? —Unfortunately I’m not familiar with the OCD treatment providers in Germany, though I am sure there must be some. Anther option would be to get treatment online with someone in the US or UK. Eric dave August 13, 2014 at 2:04 pm - Reply Hi Jon. Having read Empty Closets gay website and reviewing my behaviours from the past such as saying I’d never get married (age 9), not wanting to kiss girls (age 12), avoiding hook ups (age 18) etc..I have come to the conclusion I’m gay and not HOCD. Things seem to be getting clearer after 7 yrs of this questioning. My reactions to guys are getting stronger while my reactions to girls have disappeared and are almost non existent. I kissed a hot girl a couple weeks back for an hour or more and I felt bored and barely got a reaction down there. I had the tiniest semi. In my early 20’s I would have been much more aroused. I am getting aroused around men now or just even reading the gay forum about peoples experiences. Strong intense groinal sensations that drive me nuts and make me give in and masturbate. My orgasms to guys when I maturbate is so much more intense than to those of girls. Its like night and day. I never feel an urge to masturbate about girls anymore. I do for guys. You may think that I am feeling better that the confusion is clearing up. No I’m not. Im depressed and think and dwell about being gay 24/7. Im scared of being home alone as I know I will end up masturbating about guys. I dont want to do it but cant stop myself. I am terrified of girls, even seeing hot girls on tv. The gays on E.C say its because I am freaking out because I am trying to feel something for them that isnt there and so it causes a panic because I am not conforming to heteronormative society. i.e. guys are supposed to like girls sexually and I am not feeling it and therefore get anxious. I’m feeling arousal sensations I havent felt in years and its only for men 🙁 I am walkign around like a zombie and feel depressed and anxious, and have no motivation to do anything. I cant remember the last time I felt happy. I guess my ramblings here is just to vent frustration. Why do people say ocd peoples obsessions never come true e.g. harm, paedophelia, gay, etc..i.e. That they never turn out to be what they fear. I am living proof you can be obsessed and freaking out about being gay and actually turns out that I was gay all along even though I thought I was straight. Gays have told me that they fully believed they were straight until they experienced gay feelings and it was like ”oh this is what its supposed to feel like” and whatever feelings for women that they had totally disappeared. One girl said she didnt have a libido and then when she started to wonder if she was gay in her 20’s her libido magically appeared and she is a lesbian now. So it seems to me my options are : 1. accept I am gay and have sex with men because my body craves it (even thoug its against my will-internalised homophobia?) 2. Live depressed and end up killing myself. 3. Live a straight life and end up depressed as the strain becomes incredible. People have said ‘treat the ocd then it will be clearer’ or something similar. I did a few yrs ago and I was still the same. It’s obvious I’m gay and its killing me that I cant have the life I want. Marrying a man and adopting? Thats not what I dreamt about growing up. Makes me depressed thinking about it. I just feel like ending it all tbh. I know suicide is horrible but all I can think about all day is gay gay gay and get arousals that make me sad and depressed. I am being tortured by my own body. Distractions dont work because the gay issue is still there and brings me back to a depresssed state. I realize its never going away and this is beyond depressing. I dont even care if I have ocd. All I care about is being gay or not. And its obvious I am and it feels like an itch I cant sctratch. Something I want to fix but cant. I feel icky all day. I dont want to be a happy gay. I want the life I wanted growing up. I rememebr being 18 and looking forward to an excitting life travelling the worls with my future girlfriend having sex and enjoying life. My life has turned out to be a massive disappointment. Im 32 now and dread having to live with these gay feelings for the next 50 yrs or so potentially. I want my life to be over sooner rather than later. Jonathan Hershfield August 14, 2014 at 12:32 am - Reply >>>>>Hi Jon. Having read Empty Closets gay website and reviewing my behaviours from the past such as saying I’d never get married (age 9), not wanting to kiss girls (age 12), avoiding hook ups (age 18) etc..I have come to the conclusion I’m gay and not HOCD. —OK. If it’s OCD, there is no way it could possibly get better if you keep compulsively going to sites like Empty Closets. >>>>Things seem to be getting clearer after 7 yrs of this questioning. My reactions to guys are getting stronger while my reactions to girls have disappeared and are almost non existent. I kissed a hot girl a couple weeks back for an hour or more and I felt bored and barely got a reaction down there. I had the tiniest semi. In my early 20′s I would have been much more aroused. —-I would have been much more aroused in my early 20s too. The best way to make sure you are always bored with things is to do them and then check to see if they are exciting. >>>>I am getting aroused around men now or just even reading the gay forum about peoples experiences. Strong intense groinal sensations that drive me nuts and make me give in and masturbate. —Masturbation is a choice. If you feel it is not a choice, then you need to be in therapy for an impulse control disorder or for sexual addiction (depending on your theoretical bent). >>>>My orgasms to guys when I maturbate is so much more intense than to those of girls. Its like night and day. I never feel an urge to masturbate about girls anymore. I do for guys. —Since you have been masturbating to men out of a compulsive urge to prove something about your obsession for some time, it is not surprising you have trained you brain to release more dopamine to these experiences. I’m not sure what this says about your sexual orientation, only that it means you are having this sexual experience. >>>>You may think that I am feeling better that the confusion is clearing up. No I’m not. Im depressed and think and dwell about being gay 24/7. Im scared of being home alone as I know I will end up masturbating about guys. I dont want to do it but cant stop myself. —Again, if you really believe that you can;t stop masturbating, then you need treatment for that, concurrently or independently from your treatment for depression and OCD. >>>>I am terrified of girls, even seeing hot girls on tv. The gays on E.C say —The “gays?” So you don’t feel like one of them? >>>its because I am freaking out because I am trying to feel something for them that isnt there and so it causes a panic because I am not conforming to heteronormative society. i.e. guys are supposed to like girls sexually and I am not feeling it and therefore get anxious. I’m feeling arousal sensations I havent felt in years and its only for men 🙁 I am walkign around like a zombie and feel depressed and anxious, and have no motivation to do anything. I cant remember the last time I felt happy. —Sorry you are so unhappy. >>>>I guess my ramblings here is just to vent frustration. Why do people say ocd peoples obsessions never come true e.g. harm, paedophelia, gay, etc..i.e. That they never turn out to be what they fear. I am living proof you can be obsessed and freaking out about being gay and actually turns out that I was gay all along even though I thought I was straight. —I don’t know why people make claims like “obsessions never come true.” I wouldn’t say that, despite never having seen an obsession come true. You are saying that you’ve been gay all along. Maybe it’s true, I have no idea. But the evidence you use is mostly a product of changes you have made in your lifestyle aimed at proving you are straight. I imagine if someone spent years compulsively testing themselves to snuff films or child pornography, it might have an effect on their Harm OCD or POCD. Not sure. But in any case, being able to get off to something doesn’t tell us much about a person’s identity. >>>>Gays have told me that they fully believed they were straight until they experienced gay feelings and it was like ”oh this is what its supposed to feel like” and whatever feelings for women that they had totally disappeared. One girl said she didnt have a libido and then when she started to wonder if she was gay in her 20′s her libido magically appeared and she is a lesbian now. —Good for them. >>>>So it seems to me my options are : 1. accept I am gay and have sex with men because my body craves it (even thoug its against my will-internalised homophobia?) —This is a bad idea. Having sex against your will is always a bad idea. If you want to have gay sex, you can. If you don’t, but feel somehow compelled to, then you need to work with an sexual addiction or impulse control specialist. >>>>2. Live depressed and end up killing myself. —Also a terrible idea, but you expected me to say that. If you are in any way at risk of harming yourself, call an emergency hotline or walk into an emergency room. >>>>3. Live a straight life and end up depressed as the strain becomes incredible. —It’s not clear what the strain is. If it is the strain of trying to prove you are not gay, then that is treatable. You may have a complex case and it may be really difficult to adhere to treatment, but that doesn’t make your situation a lost cause. >>>>People have said ‘treat the ocd then it will be clearer’ or something similar. I did a few yrs ago and I was still the same. —Without knowing what you did or for how long, I can;t comment on your previous treatment. If the several posts you have made to this blog, all of them have included lengthy descriptions of lengthy compulsive behaviors you continue to engage in. If you were also doing these compulsions during the time you were in treatment, there is no reason to expect it would have worked. >>>>It’s obvious I’m gay and its killing me that I cant have the life I want. Marrying a man and adopting? Thats not what I dreamt about growing up. Makes me depressed thinking about it. —I don’t know how obvious it is, but I’m just some guy on the internet. If you say you dreamt of something growing up and it’s killing you that you don’t think you can have it, that sound somewhat different from it being obvious that you are gay. In any case, gay or bi or straight, it’s certainly something you need to process with a therapist if it is impairing your quality of life so intensely. >>>>I just feel like ending it all tbh. I know suicide is horrible but all I can think about all day is gay gay gay and get arousals that make me sad and depressed. I am being tortured by my own body. Distractions dont work because the gay issue is still there and brings me back to a depresssed state. I realize its never going away and this is beyond depressing. I dont even care if I have ocd. All I care about is being gay or not. And its obvious I am and it feels like an itch I cant sctratch. Something I want to fix but cant. I feel icky all day. I dont want to be a happy gay. I want the life I wanted growing up. I rememebr being 18 and looking forward to an excitting life travelling the worls with my future girlfriend having sex and enjoying life. My life has turned out to be a massive disappointment. Im 32 now and dread having to live with these gay feelings for the next 50 yrs or so potentially. I want my life to be over sooner rather than later. —Dave, I hear you’re in a lot of pain and you sound extremely and clinically depressed to me. As I’ve said before, it’s really important that you get professional help. First for your depression. This depressed, there’s no way you’ll stand up to your OCD OR your sexual orientation confusion, or both, whatever is the issue. Again, if you are at any risk of harming yourself in any way, go to an emergency room. It’s not a sign of weakness to get professional help. It’s a sign of strength. Ryan August 25, 2014 at 3:24 pm - Reply Hi Jon, I’ve had OCD all my life; including health anxiety, magical thinking in relationships, fear of demonic possession and ghosts, and HOCD. I also have a mild tic or something, I shake my hands really quickly like a drumming motion, and make a ‘cha-cha’ sound…it makes me feel better…sometimes it can last for minutes…I also pace rooms in repetitive fashions, repeatedly touching the same object in the room (I’ve done this for an hour before). What’s all that about? This theme started off innocent enough with a thought, during masturbation, and I was surprised I found the thought of a another male similar to thought of a woman, or at least arousing on a certain level. I then started mental rituals, examining my past; experiences in relationships with girls, what I thought about guys my whole life, trying to find a secret self, a gay self. I then started looking at guys and girls and evaluating my interest or lack thereof. This evolved to imagining sexual scenarios with men, and initially, I was panicked and terrified; so I tried masturbation with some ‘success.’ My face contorts during the process, and I feel so depressed doing it. I’ve stopped doing that. But the mental rituals (examination/testing), and the groin checking happens soooo often now; I can’t even stop myself. I’ll just be sitting there, thinking I’m gay (all the time, because of my body, clothing, etc.) and ‘bam!’, I’m remembering experiences from my past…but now they seem gay…how do memories change tone like this??? Or did I just repress things? Even when I masturbate to girls, I feel like I’m ‘actually’ masturbating to guys (secretly) and it destroys the experience I desire. Now however, two things have started happening, 1. when I have the thoughts, my penis shrivels and becomes a tinny thing, or a skinny narrow thing; it sorta hurts, and it’s difficult to pee and I can’t masturbate. Why is this happening? Am I reacting to anxiety? Or am I reacting to anxiety over a true thing (being actually gay, but not wanting it). 2. I keep having dreams, almost every night, or time I lay my head down; they started gay themed, where I just feel gay in the dream, or I’m around gay people, and I’m actually doing the compulsions in the dream! Recently, they’ve become more sexual. In the dream I like it, and even when I wake up, it feels very erotic; sometimes I have an erection. But then I have a panic attack, doubt, fear, penis retracts, and I’m back to obsessing. How do I stop this? Or is it a ‘gay self’ just telling me ‘who I really am’? Sorry for the book here. Hope you can help. Jonathan Hershfield August 29, 2014 at 4:53 pm - Reply >>>>I’ve had OCD all my life; including health anxiety, magical thinking in relationships, fear of demonic possession and ghosts, and HOCD. I also have a mild tic or something, I shake my hands really quickly like a drumming motion, and make a ‘cha-cha’ sound…it makes me feel better…sometimes it can last for minutes…I also pace rooms in repetitive fashions, repeatedly touching the same object in the room (I’ve done this for an hour before). What’s all that about? —Everything you describe above is consistent with OCD. Tics and compulsions are sometimes hard to separate, so you’d want to get a professional assessment to know if the hand-shaking behavior and “cha cha” sound are related to a tic disorder or are best understood as compulsions. Tics are typically only semi-voluntary or involuntary, and are preceded by an urge or tension, which is relieved by the behavior. One way of treating it is to learn how to anticipate it coming up and then practicing a competing response. So, for example, if you felt the urge to do the hand-shaking motion, you could sit for a period of times with your fists clenched while breathing slowly until the urge passed. For the vocal behavior, you might clench your jaw in a similar fashion. If it’s more of a compulsion, you’d want to look at what you believe would happen if you resisted the behavior and do exposure to that fear somehow. >>>>This theme started off innocent enough with a thought, during masturbation, and I was surprised I found the thought of a another male similar to thought of a woman, or at least arousing on a certain level. –Masturbation is a lot like video games. When we suspend disbelief for the purpose of fantasy, we allow in all kinds of things that we would normally find suspicious. People generally don’t mind that characters in video games can run around with a stockpile of weapons that would weigh a ton. People typically have the same attitude about sexual fantasy, unless they have OCD and attempt to apply rules. >>>>I then started mental rituals, examining my past; experiences in relationships with girls, what I thought about guys my whole life, trying to find a secret self, a gay self. I then started looking at guys and girls and evaluating my interest or lack thereof. This evolved to imagining sexual scenarios with men, and initially, I was panicked and terrified; so I tried masturbation with some ‘success.’ My face contorts during the process, and I feel so depressed doing it. I’ve stopped doing that. —These are all common compulsions. The problem with the masturbation compulsion is that when you have an orgasm while forcing yourself to test for homosexuality, your brain releases a lot of dopamine (in other words, orgasms feel good). You end up pairing this chemical reward with whatever action you were engaging in, whether it is related to your orientation or not. Then your OCD tells you this must mean something more important. >>>>But the mental rituals (examination/testing), and the groin checking happens soooo often now; I can’t even stop myself. I’ll just be sitting there, thinking I’m gay (all the time, because of my body, clothing, etc.) and ‘bam!’, I’m remembering experiences from my past…but now they seem gay…how do memories change tone like this??? Or did I just repress things? Even when I masturbate to girls, I feel like I’m ‘actually’ masturbating to guys (secretly) and it destroys the experience I desire. —You say you cannot stop yourself and this is a distorted way of looking at the process. It is true that you cannot control the presence of unwanted thoughts and it is probably true that you automatically begin ritualizing. That means right now you are having difficulty resisting the initiation of the ritual. It says nothing about what you can or cannot do once you become aware that you are ritualizing. Rather than attempt to complete the ritual, a better strategy would be to label it and redirect yourself back to the present moment. With practice, you will abandon the ritual earlier and earlier. >>>>Now however, two things have started happening, 1. when I have the thoughts, my penis shrivels and becomes a tinny thing, or a skinny narrow thing; it sorta hurts, and it’s difficult to pee and I can’t masturbate. Why is this happening? Am I reacting to anxiety? Or am I reacting to anxiety over a true thing (being actually gay, but not wanting it). —Not a penis expert. Some men become impotent in the face of anxiety and others become erect. It’s unclear why blood flows or vacates the region. 2. I keep having dreams, almost every night, or time I lay my head down; they started gay themed, where I just feel gay in the dream, or I’m around gay people, and I’m actually doing the compulsions in the dream! Recently, they’ve become more sexual. In the dream I like it, and even when I wake up, it feels very erotic; sometimes I have an erection. But then I have a panic attack, doubt, fear, penis retracts, and I’m back to obsessing. How do I stop this? Or is it a ‘gay self’ just telling me ‘who I really am’? —People often dream about what they think about all day. That’s hardly rocket science. I would suggest getting CBT from an ocd specialist if you can, or working with a self-cbt workbook to get a handle on the OCD. When you spend less of your waking hours trying to resolve this obsession with orientation, you will probably spend less of your dream time on it as well. If you are watching a lot of porn in general (gay or straight), or late at night, that probably contributes to it as well. That being said, people have weird sex dreams. The dreams are not the problem. Your waking analysis of them is the problem. Ryan August 29, 2014 at 6:34 pm - Reply Thanks Jon. I really appreciate your candor. I’m not trying to obsess here (although I know I am). The past week has been pretty good actually. I’ve tried identifying the thoughts as thoughts, the compulsions as compulsions, and accepting they exist. If I have a thought, I just tell myself, ‘yep, that’s happening, I accept what’s happening, but not that it means something about my orientation.’ Sensations with the penis are more difficult. I accept the sensations and say to myself, ‘yep, there’s lots of things going on down there all the time, even sometimes related to my obsessive thoughts, but that doesn’t necessarily equate with arousal.’ But I’d really like my penis to just relax…I’d like to enjoy my penis for all it is (Yes, I know that sounds funny).. Mostly I’m worried because I just don’t feel as drawn to, or attracted to women. There was a time when I thought women were the most gorgeous creation on the earth, and everything about them turned me on…now it’s like someone has muted those thoughts and sensations…which leaves me with gay thoughts, and at times dreams. For example, last night I was spending time with a girl I’ve fooled around with in the past, and she’s pretty cute, but each time I looked at her, I felt like, ‘nah, it’s not there right now, I’m not really that into her…these gay thoughts seem more intense’ and they do! After a week of great sleep (by doing what you suggested), I found myself with the girl in a dream, and with us is a guy, and I’m wondering which I want more; they she suggests a three some, in the dream that seems almost appealing sexually, but I tell her ‘no, I just want you right now…even though the threesome feels more intense’. Then when it’s just us…all the sudden she’s gone and it’s the random man, and in the dream, I’m analyzing the degree to which I’m turned on, and it seems like more with him, but immediately, before anything sexual happens, I say, ‘no, I don’t want this’ and my penis begins retracting in the dream. I wake up with a semi-erection. I know you’ve answered my question, ‘dreams are weird…they incorporate daily thoughts’ But you can see how the repetitive nature of the dreams, and the fact that what I fear is arousal during the day, is in fact arousal in the dream, leads me to spike. How come they resemble real life compulsions, and why do they seem to end with me into guys, but then not really? In other words, why is it so real?!?!?! Also, how can I get my mojo back. I just want to be into a girl again. My CBT specialist thus far has instructed me: ‘when you have gay thoughts, think about the attractive girl you just noticed instead.’ and ‘when the compulsions show up, find an alternative thought.’ Both processes routinely get coopted by my obsession… I think, ‘would you have sex with the attractive girl? why aren’t you erect then? why does she frighten you? why are you worried about if she has bad breath, or if she has a disease?’ and I find the redirected mental compulsion somehow turning my once happy thought, into a gay one. Is it normal to find your once girlfriends all the sudden less appealing or attractive? I apologize for going on; I’m honestly not trying to look for reassurance in the compulsive sense; I’m just confused and don’t know what any of this means, or why it’s become so bloody meaningful. Thanks again so much for your time and excellent work here. Jonathan Hershfield August 29, 2014 at 10:14 pm - Reply >>>>Thanks Jon. I really appreciate your candor. I’m not trying to obsess here (although I know I am). The past week has been pretty good actually. I’ve tried identifying the thoughts as thoughts, the compulsions as compulsions, and accepting they exist. If I have a thought, I just tell myself, ‘yep, that’s happening, I accept what’s happening, but not that it means something about my orientation.’ —-A better strategy would be to tell yourself that you have no idea what it means. >>>>Sensations with the penis are more difficult. I accept the sensations and say to myself, ‘yep, there’s lots of things going on down there all the time, even sometimes related to my obsessive thoughts, but that doesn’t necessarily equate with arousal.’ But I’d really like my penis to just relax…I’d like to enjoy my penis for all it is (Yes, I know that sounds funny).. —Hilarious. Stop trying to control the poor guy. He feels oppressed and is acting out. >>>>Mostly I’m worried because I just don’t feel as drawn to, or attracted to women. There was a time when I thought women were the most gorgeous creation on the earth, and everything about them turned me on…now it’s like someone has muted those thoughts and sensations…which leaves me with gay thoughts, and at times dreams. —People who obsess about orientation tend to check for feelings to ensure they are having the right ones at the right times and none at the wrong times. This causes a paradoxical response in the body, such that you focus so much on feeling good about women, you habituate to it and feel nothing, and so much time trying not to feel something good about men, they trigger and stimulate you. A better strategy is to accept whatever you feel when you feel it and not try to control this. >>>For example, last night I was spending time with a girl I’ve fooled around with in the past, and she’s pretty cute, but each time I looked at her, I felt like, ‘nah, it’s not there right now, I’m not really that into her…these gay thoughts seem more intense’ and they do! –OK. Then feel that way. This doesn’t need to influence your behavior. Why must things be “intense” for you to enjoy time with a girl? How can reality ever measure up to this OCD-fueled standard of intensity? >>>>After a week of great sleep (by doing what you suggested), I found myself with the girl in a dream, and with us is a guy, and I’m wondering which I want more; they she suggests a three some, in the dream that seems almost appealing sexually, but I tell her ‘no, I just want you right now…even though the threesome feels more intense’. Then when it’s just us…all the sudden she’s gone and it’s the random man, and in the dream, I’m analyzing the degree to which I’m turned on, and it seems like more with him, but immediately, before anything sexual happens, I say, ‘no, I don’t want this’ and my penis begins retracting in the dream. I wake up with a semi-erection. I know you’ve answered my question, ‘dreams are weird…they incorporate daily thoughts’ But you can see how the repetitive nature of the dreams, and the fact that what I fear is arousal during the day, is in fact arousal in the dream, leads me to spike. How come they resemble real life compulsions, and why do they seem to end with me into guys, but then not really? In other words, why is it so real?!?!?! —Not a dream expert. I can tell you that analyzing your dreams is fueling your obsession, not resolving it. >>>>Also, how can I get my mojo back. I just want to be into a girl again. —Define “into.” Just kidding. >>>>My CBT specialist thus far has instructed me: ‘when you have gay thoughts, think about the attractive girl you just noticed instead.’ and ‘when the compulsions show up, find an alternative thought.’ —You are either misinterpreting what this therapist is telling you or this therapist has no idea how to treat OCD. Purposely trying to think of an attractive girl as a response to the presence of a “gay” thought is the definition of thought neutralization, which is a common compulsion anyone who has ever treated OCD would advise against. >>>>Both processes routinely get coopted by my obsession… I think, ‘would you have sex with the attractive girl? why aren’t you erect then? why does she frighten you? why are you worried about if she has bad breath, or if she has a disease?’ and I find the redirected mental compulsion somehow turning my once happy thought, into a gay one. Is it normal to find your once girlfriends all the sudden less appealing or attractive? —Attractions come and go. Analyzing them makes them come and go more dramatically. >>>I apologize for going on; I’m honestly not trying to look for reassurance in the compulsive sense; I’m just confused and don’t know what any of this means, or why it’s become so bloody meaningful. Thanks again so much for your time and excellent work here. —If you haven’t already, I would suggest reading up on your disorder a bit more. You seems stuck on the idea that thinking harder is going to somehow produce results. Freedom From Obsessive Compulsive Disorder by Jonathan Grayson might be a good resource. Eric Dave August 31, 2014 at 8:33 pm - Reply Hi. I read this on Empty Closets by Chip the forum admin replying to a questioning guy He says: ”So I don’t think what you’ve said above necessarily discounts the idea of having a girlfriend because some part of you knows society expects that. I had three girlfriends, each of which I was with for an extended period of time (over 6 months) in high school and up to my mid-20s. Each one of them I “loved” and felt romantic toward, kissed, hogged, cuddled with. None of that was forced, and when the first two relationships (in high school) ended, I was pretty devastated. So clearly it wasn’t forced or fake. (and actually, the first two relationships ended, not by my choice, because sex didn’t happen.) But looking back, I never really had any desire to have sex with any of them. I mean, I sort of did, but when it happened, for me at least, it really wasn’t very fulfilling. And the interesting thing is… I never once considered I was gay while I was with them. It wasn’t until after I broke up with the third one that I finally started thinking about what it all meant, and how I was actually feeling attraction to men. Looking back, the signs were definitely there, but denial can be really powerful. So your experience may be different, but what I describe is actually pretty common.” This really deflates me. Especially the sex not being fulfilling part. I mean I was clinging to the hopes I had HOCD because I have always persued girls, had fantasies about girls and thought gay guys didnt or just did got married to pretend they were straight. I thought gay guys knew from a young age they were gay where in reality many genuinely believed they were straight and were in love with their wives etc.until something made them question. Many say ”I really thought I was straight and never contemplated that I was gay but then looking back I always felt somethign was missing and when I kissed the same sex it was an ”a-ha” moment where ”so this is what everyone else feels/supposed to feel like”. Apparently they felt butterflies/fireworks etc.. They believed beforehand that what they felt was normal when it was abnormal. Only when they went gay did they get those feelings. I am nearly certain this is me and how my story will end up. The only difference between me and these guys is that I am kicking and screaming and devastated about it where as they seemed to accept it alot easier. They even liked the idea of being gay where I would rather be dead almost. There seems to be gathering evidence towards me being gay. I now get ‘butterflies’ when I see guys. Its not welcomed or liked but I feel my breathing stop, my heart starts beating stronger and I feel more alert. This sometimes is accompanied by an arousal feeling. When this happens I get depressed. Ive noticed my nocturnal erections occuring much more often now. Especially after a day of worrying about being gay. Before my ”hocd” I had lost my sex drive and no night time erections at all. The fact that theyve returned seems logical evidence to me I am gay. Also those moments int he morning when I am semi conscious confirm this fact as sometimes images float into my dream and I feel myself getting aroused to gay images and then nothing to images of naked women. For me it’s horrible as I feel I’ve lost my identity and getting urges I find disturbing. The thought of having to endure these everyday for the rest of my life is devastating. I feel like the only option is to throw myself into a gay lifestyle even though its abhorrent to me, seems against my values and moral beliefs. I’m not religious at all it’s just I dont want to do these things even if my crotch is begging me to. Thats the scary part. Being out of control and tortured with these urges. If I cant have sex with women and it feeling great then I dont want it at all. I feel like I am fighting fate though. That no matter how much I fight this and hate it I will end up living an active homosexual lifestyle. Is clinging onto the hope this is ocd doing me damage you think? Should I just ‘grow a set’ and get over it and be gay? Thanks again Jonathan Hershfield September 2, 2014 at 10:52 pm - Reply Since you continue to comb through Empty Closets after being told repeatedly that this is a compulsion, it’s unclear why you continue to post about it here on a blog about obsessive compulsive disorder. And at the risk of repeating myself again, again, the theory that arousal is a determinant of orientation is not backed by evidence. If you compulsively force yourself to try to feel arousal to women, you will habituate to and lose that arousal to women. If you compulsively force yourself to fight arousal to men, you will intensify and sensitize yourself to that arousal. This has nothing to do with sexual orientation. Your current theory hinges on the belief that if something happens to someone else, it must means something about you. You ask if you should “grow a set and just be gay.” I’m not sure what this means, to just up and be gay. I would still recommend doing something more challenging and more “set-worthy” which is learn how to better tolerate uncertainty by treating the OCD and resisting compulsions. The answer to your quandary does not lie in your penis. R September 2, 2014 at 5:01 pm - Reply Hi Eric Dave, Before I state my comment, I just want to say I am no where near Jon’s level of education regarding the treatment of OCD however I have OCD for 8 years now. I just want to say that I’ve seen and read a lot of crazy things on the internet and what you have just read is just an opinion. A bias opinion. An opinion may have some truth to it, but it isn’t a fact nor does it have any substantial evidence to dictate who you are as a person. This person didn’t know til a later age granted but he was able to accept the thoughts without protest whereas you are as you say, kicking and screaming about the thoughts. Forgive me Jon, but this is gonna serve as reassurance: I’ve read in books relating to OCD that desire and fear cannot occupy the same space. How can you enjoy something if you’re constantly scared of it? And how can you be scared of something you enjoy? I really agree with Jon that you desperately need to see a therapist who can help you as your condition is not healthy. If not a therapist, at least try to get yourself up and read self help books. Well, I hope you get better regardless. Akari September 3, 2014 at 5:39 am - Reply Hello, I bought your book couple of month ago, but I couldn’t able to finish it because of my fears of not being hocd, but being in denial. 1. I had watched a music video including lesbian porn. I was intrigued, I urged to do it right now (had tingling feeling in my left and felt that my chest was more heavier) , but after watching couple of time I was still aroused but I felt more anxious, disinterested and disgusted. Does these urges and arousal identify your sexuality? 2. When I write store about friends hang out, my mind is telling me that these characters should fall in love which it is annoyed the shit of me. Does obsession affect the creativity? 3. I had several throughout my life about same sex and it’s driving me crazy at the point ppl considered your true sexuality? It is true that dreams determine one’s own sexuality? 4. I can’t get my attractions toward men. I try to get focus on them. When days goes by, I don’t notice or focus on men. I’m going to cry. Does hocd destroy your attraction? 5. When I go out, at the beginning I notice girls and their attractions. It’s make me very anxious. Later the day, I’m not attracted to them. Does hocd make you question about your sexuality around the ppl I know and don’t know? My goal today is not get reassurance because if I do, it will be running in circle. My questions are 1. How can I stop reassuring myself after I accept the uncertainty? 2. What are the best technique to reduce anxiety and concentrate on the regular daily routine? Does healthy lifestyle help reduce hocd? Is it normal to comment or compliments every girl I see in music video or real life? Will I ever have my libido to men back? Jonathan Hershfield September 3, 2014 at 11:05 pm - Reply >>>Hello, I bought your book couple of month ago, but I couldn’t able to finish it because of my fears of not being hocd, but being in denial. —The phrase “I couldn’t finish the book because” is best ended with something like “I was blinded in a terrible accident.” Saying you were not capable of doing something because of a fear evades the truth, which is you made a choice to avoid doing something because you didn’t want to feel uncomfortable. You may have to choose to do things that make you uncomfortable to overcome an obsession. >>>>1. I had watched a music video including lesbian porn. I was intrigued, I urged to do it right now (had tingling feeling in my left and felt that my chest was more heavier) , but after watching couple of time I was still aroused but I felt more anxious, disinterested and disgusted. Does these urges and arousal identify your sexuality? —What do you think? I can’t imagine why they would, but then I’m not an expert in sexuality. >>>2. When I write store about friends hang out, my mind is telling me that these characters should fall in love which it is annoyed the shit of me. Does obsession affect the creativity? —I don’t understand this question, but people do write about what’s on their mind I guess. You can’t control what thoughts you have, so if you’re being creative, you have to allow for all kinds of thoughts to show up. Saying they annoy you is just another way of saying you do not accept their presence and believe you should be able to control them. >>>>3. I had several throughout my life about same sex and it’s driving me crazy at the point ppl considered your true sexuality? It is true that dreams determine one’s own sexuality? —Your question implies that you heard somewhere that dreams determine something. That’s a theory I would like to see some evidence for. Until the, I will subscribe to the more likely theory, that dreams are thoughts that happen when you’re asleep and you can’t control your thoughts. What drives you crazy is not the content of your dreams but your insistence on judging and attempting to neutralize that content. >>>4. I can’t get my attractions toward men. I try to get focus on them. When days goes by, I don’t notice or focus on men. I’m going to cry. Does hocd destroy your attraction? —Many people report anxiety affects their libido and sexual obsessions impair their feelings of attraction to their historic preferences. This is easy to understand since “trying” to feel things automatically makes those feelings seem synthetic and less authentic. Try feeling happy some time and you’ll agree. If you want your sense of attraction back, you have to stop checking for it. >>>5. When I go out, at the beginning I notice girls and their attractions. It’s make me very anxious. Later the day, I’m not attracted to them. Does hocd make you question about your sexuality around the ppl I know and don’t know? —This question doesn’t make any sense, sorry. You are asking if sexual orientation obsessions (HOCD) make people question their sexuality about people. >>>My goal today is not get reassurance because if I do, it will be running in circle. —Good that you recognize that, except all of the above questions are reassurance-seeking questions. >>>>My questions are 1. How can I stop reassuring myself after I accept the uncertainty? —Your job is to control what you can, not what you can’t. Some amount of self-reassurance will happen automatically because, well, you’re probably not gay, so simply being who you are is automatically reassuring. What you want to attempt to resist is actively focusing your attention on reassuring statements or ideas in an attempt to prove your orientation. Proving = compulsing = fueling the obsession. >>>>2. What are the best technique to reduce anxiety and concentrate on the regular daily routine? Does healthy lifestyle help reduce hocd? —-This is a very vague and general question that is best answered by reading a book about OCD. >>>>Is it normal to comment or compliments every girl I see in music video or real life? —Asking what is normal and what is not is a compulsion. >>>>Will I ever have my libido to men back? —Not a psychic. I can predict that if you continue to do compulsions, your OCD will probably not get better, which means your libido will probably remain impaired. So my recommendation would be to get treatment for your OCD or do some form of self-treatment with a CBT workbook. akari September 6, 2014 at 9:00 pm - Reply 2. Sorry it was a typo….. I mean when I write down a story, my mind shift and it is telling me that these female characters should fall in love with each other which it is annoyed the shit of me. Does sexual obsession impair the way you think? 4. I mean when you surround with people you know or random people, does OCD make you doubt your sexuality, even though you know your sexuality? Jonathan Hershfield September 12, 2014 at 11:56 pm - Reply 2. Anxiety can certainly impair concentration. But what you are describing is that you became aware of certain thoughts going through your head and decided they shouldn’t be there and this caused you discomfort. We cannot control what thoughts we have, only what we do with them. If you are having intrusive thoughts about sexual things, I suggest you do not attempt to neutralize or suppress them, but accept that those are the thoughts going through your head at that moment. 4. Yes, OCD can make people feel doubt about things they had previously presumed were obvious. akari September 6, 2014 at 9:02 pm - Reply >>>>1. I had watched a music video including lesbian porn. I was intrigued, I urged to do it right now (had tingling feeling in my left and felt that my chest was more heavier) , but after watching couple of time I was still aroused but I felt more anxious, disinterested and disgusted. Does these urges and arousal identify your sexuality? —What do you think? I can’t imagine why they would, but then I’m not an expert in sexuality. I know I’m straight but when I was lesbian video, my leg tingling and start to arouse. Does that mean I’m a lesbian? Jonathan Hershfield September 12, 2014 at 11:53 pm - Reply You are asking me if a tingling in your leg is what defines someone’s sexual orientation. I am asking what you think, since I find it impossible to believe you think I have the answer to this question and you don’t. My recommendation is that you stop trying to prove the unprovable with compulsive tests. Travis September 11, 2014 at 2:28 am - Reply Hey Jon, I was wondering if you could possible create a format or something for TOCD (transgender-ocd) as it’s greatly needed and would be appreciated if you could. There’s lots of people suffering from this form and without the proper tools or understanding I fear that some may go to extremes as in some cases HOCD sufferers have. As a fan and reader, I have made up an example in relation to this page. It Follows the same rules as other forms of OCD of course. IT has the obsession, an unwanted intrusive thought: .The fear of turning trans (into a gender not of your own) .Fear of being seen as feminine (womanly) or masculine (if a woman) .Fear that your actions/movements are feminine/manly. .Fear of being in denial (or secretly trans , even you don’t know about it .Fear of losing gender identity .Fear of sounding feminine (or manly if a woman) .Fear that the intrusive thoughts means something. It’s not just “what if I’m trans” If it were that easy, you could put it to rest with. “Well I’ll just be trans self, and then be cool with it.” It’s a fear of being trapped, of losing your sense of self, It’s a fear of your original gender somehow getting lost in a metamorphosing trans mind. Never being able to return to that connection you once had with your Identity and seeing the same and opposite sex the same way and feeling responsible for not realizing it in time. Jonathan Hershfield September 13, 2014 at 12:13 am - Reply >>>>Hey Jon, I was wondering if you could possible create a format or something for TOCD (transgender-ocd) as it’s greatly needed and would be appreciated if you could. There’s lots of people suffering from this form and without the proper tools or understanding I fear that some may go to extremes as in some cases HOCD sufferers have. —This is a blog with some comments on it that I spend some time responding to and not a forum or a discussion board, so I think if you want to create one focusing on this particular obsession, that is a great idea and hopefully it will make some people feel less alone. If I write any more installments in the series on HOCD, I may include transgender obsessions, paraphillic obsessions, incest obsessions, and pedophile obsessions, as they are all relatively common sexual obsessions found in OCD. I think as it stands we have too many non-diagnostic abbreviations, so I will not be calling anything TOCD, but this doesn’t mean I think it is any less important to the person suffering from it. >>>As a fan and reader, I have made up an example in relation to this page. It Follows the same rules as other forms of OCD of course. IT has the obsession, an unwanted intrusive thought: .The fear of turning trans (into a gender not of your own) .Fear of being seen as feminine (womanly) or masculine (if a woman) .Fear that your actions/movements are feminine/manly. .Fear of being in denial (or secretly trans , even you don’t know about it .Fear of losing gender identity .Fear of sounding feminine (or manly if a woman) .Fear that the intrusive thoughts means something. It’s not just “what if I’m trans” If it were that easy, you could put it to rest with. “Well I’ll just be trans self, and then be cool with it.” It’s a fear of being trapped, of losing your sense of self, It’s a fear of your original gender somehow getting lost in a metamorphosing trans mind. Never being able to return to that connection you once had with your Identity and seeing the same and opposite sex the same way and feeling responsible for not realizing it in time. —This is great. As you point out, it is diagnostically indistinguishable from HOCD, which is diagnostically indistinguishable from OCD, which is an actual diagnosis. The items you list above are definitely consistent with what I have heard from clients who suffer from obsessive fear of being trans. I encourage you to create a forum for discussing this specific fear so perhaps others suffering from it can exchange ideas about it. If you are looking for a discussion board that includes discussions of sexual obsessions (and more), I recommend https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/pure_o_ocd/info Sara September 17, 2014 at 9:19 pm - Reply Hey Jon, This may be a rant, but I’m so confused that I need to get my thought sour. I think I’m going crazy! I used to be boy-crazy. I would want to hook up with guys, I had crushes, and I would dress up to impress guys and want to be around them – not because someone told me to, because because I wanted to myself (or at least, I think!). I would get excited when a guy asked me out, when a guy was interested in me, but none of these guys would ever hold my attention – until now I think (see later)! Somehow, whenever I get to know the guy, I realize that what I had was an infatuation. I’ve never been diagnosed with OCD, but I’ve always had anxious periods of obsessing whether I had a disease, my family dying, or me dying. But it’s never been as bad as this. – those would all fade away. I’m from a religious family, so not only would being gay be unaccepted by my parents (and honestly, by myself, even though my views are changing as I’m in university!), but also by myself. I’ve never felt right thinking about being gay, and I’ve always had that anxious feeling when I tried to consider it without thinking of social norms, etc. But recently, I’m being a little more used to the idea, even though I can’t imagine it. I also cannot imagine marrying a girl, dating a girl, or even going on a date with a girl. I’ve watched lesbian porn before, and what I feel may be HOCD started primarily after I stopped that. I’ve always had a tendency to stare at girls, but never ever had a sexual thought towards them., it was always more of a “comparing myself to them” stare, or admiring what they were wearing. I’m freaking out now, because my mom was once talking to my friend and me, and she told me she thought my friend was gay. Maybe she just thought my friend was gay, but in reality it was me that she could perceive was gay? Every time I’m alone, I think about this. Some days it’s better, and some days its bad. I haven’t stopped myself from hanging out with my friends, or going out, but I’ve noticeably looked at girls to see if I could imagine sleeping with them or being in a relationship with them. While the fantasy of it could be attractive – mostly because of the lesbian porn – I’ve never ever had a crush – or even a “girl-crush”, honestly – on a friend before. I have, however, been clingy towards my friends in the past, which I’m a little worried about. I’m a very touchy person in general, and I always hugged my friends or jumped on them – but never in a sexual or intimate manner. I’ve had a low self-esteem in the past, and I feel like that caused me to cling to some of my friends, but I’ve always been happy for them when they’ve found boyfriends and have never been jealous of these boyfriends. When I think of possibly being gay, I feel very anxious, almost sick. This tells me in the back of my mind that I can’t possibly be gay, but then I wonder, what if I’m just anxious because it’s “taboo” or “forbidden” to me, and that I’m really just in denial? I’ve never slept with a guy before, and I’ve kissed guys before while drunk and enjoyed it – not the kiss itself because I was drunk – but I’ve thought the guy was attractive which made the kiss enjoyable. I’ve just always been comfortable enough to wait until I was ready to have sex, and wanted to wait for the right guy to kiss. Is it possible that me being picky about guys is because I don’t like guys? Recently, I started liking one of my guy friends at school, who I’ve known for a while. We went on a couple of dates, and I was very nervous when he put his arm around me. I felt an anxious feeling in my stomach, and I attributed it to being scared since I’ve never kissed anyone sober. I did want to kiss him though! But now I can’t help but think that maybe I had that feeling before kissing him because I’m subconsciously gay. I’ve always wanted to get married to a man and have kids, I love reading romance stories, and I’ve always wanted a boyfriend. But what if it was a lie, and I just felt that way because I was told by society to do so? When I forget about my anxious thoughts, I notice guys, find myself trying to impress guys/ be around them or think they’re cute. My main concerns are as follows: -That I watched lesbian porn. In my case, I always skipped the parts with the two girls kissing, and I think I was just attracted to it because I am a girl and regular porn was too rough for me. I’m also a bit scared to have sex because of the pain, so I would fast-forward parts with penetration because it seemed painful to me. (SORRY, this is a lot of information, but I’m just typing thoughts out loud) -That me not having a sober kiss/boyfriend/sex with guys means subconsciously, I don’t like guys, and I like girls. But then I think about the fact that I’ve never had a crush on a girl. I’ve never even subconsciously tried to impress a girl by my looks, or by what I did. -That I will realize later in life, once I’m married or seriously dating someone, that I am gay. -That I will be gay and have to come out to my family, who will reject this. But even imagining coming out to my mom, and saying “I’m gay” didn’t feel right to me. -Having OCD tendencies, but ALSO being gay, and having those two be unrelated. THANK YOU SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO MUCH for reading through this. I’m sorry it was long, and a little confusing. Sara Jonathan Hershfield September 19, 2014 at 5:00 am - Reply >>>>This may be a rant, but I’m so confused that I need to get my thought sour. I think I’m going crazy! I used to be boy-crazy. I would want to hook up with guys, I had crushes, and I would dress up to impress guys and want to be around them – not because someone told me to, because because I wanted to myself (or at least, I think!). I would get excited when a guy asked me out, when a guy was interested in me, but none of these guys would ever hold my attention – until now I think (see later)! Somehow, whenever I get to know the guy, I realize that what I had was an infatuation. I’ve never been diagnosed with OCD, but I’ve always had anxious periods of obsessing whether I had a disease, my family dying, or me dying. But it’s never been as bad as this. – those would all fade away. —Those are common manifestations of OCD. >>>>I’m from a religious family, so not only would being gay be unaccepted by my parents (and honestly, by myself, even though my views are changing as I’m in university!), but also by myself. I’ve never felt right thinking about being gay, and I’ve always had that anxious feeling when I tried to consider it without thinking of social norms, etc. But recently, I’m being a little more used to the idea, even though I can’t imagine it. I also cannot imagine marrying a girl, dating a girl, or even going on a date with a girl. —Perhaps thinking that NOT being gay is very important explains why your OCD has settled on this subject to come back after you when the others didn’t stick. >>>I’ve watched lesbian porn before, and what I feel may be HOCD started primarily after I stopped that. I’ve always had a tendency to stare at girls, but never ever had a sexual thought towards them., it was always more of a “comparing myself to them” stare, or admiring what they were wearing. I’m freaking out now, because my mom was once talking to my friend and me, and she told me she thought my friend was gay. Maybe she just thought my friend was gay, but in reality it was me that she could perceive was gay? —You can;t read minds, so any theorizing on what’s going on in your mother’s head is wasted time. And if you could read minds and she thought you were gay, this still provides no useful information about your sexual orientation. >>>Every time I’m alone, I think about this. Some days it’s better, and some days its bad. I haven’t stopped myself from hanging out with my friends, or going out, but I’ve noticeably looked at girls to see if I could imagine sleeping with them or being in a relationship with them. While the fantasy of it could be attractive – mostly because of the lesbian porn – I’ve never ever had a crush – or even a “girl-crush”, honestly – on a friend before. —The fantasizing is fine, healthy even, if you enjoy it. But what you are doing sounds like compulsive testing. It is the most damaging compulsion in HOCD and something you should stop. Testing ruins everything. If you like looking at girls, then like it. Personally I don;t think that means anything important, but that’s up to you. But if you are trying to check out girls for the purpose of trying to get certainty about whether or not you like them, then you are doing compulsive testing, which always worsens obsessions. >>>I have, however, been clingy towards my friends in the past, which I’m a little worried about. I’m a very touchy person in general, and I always hugged my friends or jumped on them – but never in a sexual or intimate manner. I’ve had a low self-esteem in the past, and I feel like that caused me to cling to some of my friends, but I’ve always been happy for them when they’ve found boyfriends and have never been jealous of these boyfriends. When I think of possibly being gay, I feel very anxious, almost sick. This tells me in the back of my mind that I can’t possibly be gay, but then I wonder, what if I’m just anxious because it’s “taboo” or “forbidden” to me, and that I’m really just in denial? —Not knowable. >>>I’ve never slept with a guy before, and I’ve kissed guys before while drunk and enjoyed it – not the kiss itself because I was drunk – but I’ve thought the guy was attractive which made the kiss enjoyable. I’ve just always been comfortable enough to wait until I was ready to have sex, and wanted to wait for the right guy to kiss. Is it possible that me being picky about guys is because I don’t like guys? —Not knowable. You seem to be trying to make some sort of case on behalf of your OCD. >>>Recently, I started liking one of my guy friends at school, who I’ve known for a while. We went on a couple of dates, and I was very nervous when he put his arm around me. I felt an anxious feeling in my stomach, and I attributed it to being scared since I’ve never kissed anyone sober. I did want to kiss him though! But now I can’t help but think that maybe I had that feeling before kissing him because I’m subconsciously gay. —You don;t have a subconscious. That’s a word someone made up one day, that’s all. You have thoughts you pay attention to and thoughts you don’t pay attention to. Right now you are paying attention to thoughts about being gay and asking if this or that makes you gay. >>>>I’ve always wanted to get married to a man and have kids, I love reading romance stories, and I’ve always wanted a boyfriend. But what if it was a lie, and I just felt that way because I was told by society to do so? —Yes, and what if Earth is really just a hologram? Both scenarios require more evidence than you have available to prove. Beter to accept the uncertainty and get on with life. >>>When I forget about my anxious thoughts, I notice guys, find myself trying to impress guys/ be around them or think they’re cute. My main concerns are as follows: -That I watched lesbian porn. In my case, I always skipped the parts with the two girls kissing, and I think I was just attracted to it because I am a girl and regular porn was too rough for me. I’m also a bit scared to have sex because of the pain, so I would fast-forward parts with penetration because it seemed painful to me. (SORRY, this is a lot of information, but I’m just typing thoughts out loud) —This is a common heterosexual female experience. -That me not having a sober kiss/boyfriend/sex with guys means subconsciously, I don’t like guys, and I like girls. —If you had a subconscious, that would be something interesting for a psychoanalyst to pretend to explore. >>>>But then I think about the fact that I’ve never had a crush on a girl. I’ve never even subconsciously tried to impress a girl by my looks, or by what I did. -That I will realize later in life, once I’m married or seriously dating someone, that I am gay. —Anything’s possible. Hardly makes sense to live in a bunker because a nuclear bomb might wipe us all out. Same issue here. Live your life and accept uncertainty. -That I will be gay and have to come out to my family, who will reject this. But even imagining coming out to my mom, and saying “I’m gay” didn’t feel right to me. -Having OCD tendencies, but ALSO being gay, and having those two be unrelated. THANK YOU SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO MUCH for reading through this. I’m sorry it was long, and a little confusing. —I can’t diagnose you via a blog comment, but you describe a lot (a LOT) of common symptoms of obsessive compulsive disorder. That is a real issue for which we have real evidence, so the important issue worthy of focusing on is not about gay/straight. The issue is about whether or not you are going to do something meaningful about your ocd and the role that it takes in your life. I also think you have a lot of anxiety about love and sex, which is a normal experience, but also something you may wish to process with a therapist. You sound very afraid of failing to achieve your dreams. You can work on that. Justin September 19, 2014 at 7:10 am - Reply Lol I used to hocd. It was awful. Worst thing I’ve ever gone through mentally. But it was so stupid easy to beat once I had the answers. Like Jon says… accept the possiblity. Accept the unknown. You could end up gay or stab somebody or go deaf. It’s all the same crap. Fear. Just let go. I promise you once you get out of the dark hole youre in, you’ll forget about OCD and go on with your life. I wasted 3 long years obsessing every moment of every day about being gay. I’ve now been free for over a year and life is so good when you’re not in fear. Its funny I spent 3 years in this crap and now that it’s over with I NEVER think about it. I forget that I even went through hocd. It’s awesome. But I needed it. OCDs a blessing. Once you overcome it by facing your fears you become a warrior mentally. Sara September 19, 2014 at 3:25 pm - Reply Thank you for your response, Dr. Hershfield. Do you have any advice for me, or a book that you recommend I use for self-help? I’ve tried to push my thoughts out of my mind – but not resist them, just accept them and shrug them off with a “whatever, I’m gay.” This has helped with the anxiety by reducing it a little bit, but then when I think about the fact that I have no anxiety, I start to wonder why I’m not having anxiety about these thoughts, and if it’s because they’re real, and then I “spike” again. I used to want to be married to a man and have children for my whole life, and now the thoughts have gotten to me, and I’m not able to even picture this (still can’t picture getting married to a girl, either, though). I haven’t been finding guys as attractive, but just keep looking at every girl I see. I have completely given up on the porn, and when I see a girl, I try not to imagine myself being with her, or checking. I have hung out with my friends who are girls, gone out with them, and tried to stay away from guys so I don’t check myself with them either. But I still can’t get the gloom that has settled over me off, and can’t get the obsessing out of my head – even when I don’t check with people I see. When I have good days (mind you, what I think is HOCD has been going on only for this last month), and when I get out of obsessing, I naturally find myself being attracted to guys, and flirting, and then I remember HOCD again. I have found that being around other people and distracting myself helps, but I do need to learn how to be alone and handle it without going into a slump! I know you’ll suggest therapy, but I’m out of the country for 6 months (I know, it sucks that this has hit right when I go abroad), and there isn’t a way for me to have therapy or see a therapist until at least once I’m back in Canada. :/ I really want to deal with this, or at least put it under some control, so it doesn’t ruin my time abroad – any suggestions would be fantastic. Justin September 19, 2014 at 10:16 pm - Reply Maybe your feelings are real. Can you live with that? Yes. You can. You could be gay. So could I. If I was I would still choose a woman because I want that more than I’d want guys. I’m not the doctor. But I’ve been over this with no therapy. Jonathan Hershfield September 19, 2014 at 11:22 pm - Reply Avoidance of any kind is not going to work, so don’t avoid guys. Just be conscious of any efforts you may be putting into testing or evaluating reactions. If you feel “gay” or feel “straight” just notice that is what you feel and don’t try to be certain about its meaning. Short of therapy, self-CBT books I’d recommend for HOCD include The Mindfulness Workbook for OCD (Hershfield/Corboy) and Freedom From Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (Grayson). Thomas November 10, 2014 at 11:55 pm - Reply I am now in my 30’s (male). I don’t want to be gay – at all, I was once very in love with a girl and we were t she broke up with me. I had spontaneous erections around her all the time. Sometimes just holding hands walking down the street. Well the fact is in adolecence I got terrified I was gay. Now I know it was “mostly” HOCD. I knew that I liked to look at certain guy’s butts and I wish mine was shaped like theirs. I tried so hard not to ever envision a guy when I was masturbating… This made me think I was actually gay, that I had to even do that. I hated that in me. I got severely depressed. I was also attracted to females but I was so scared I was gay I just avoided them. There was a lot of fear about not being able to perform with females, but I was able to all the time – to get through that fear with alcohol. . I have battled hocd for YEARS. It comes and goes. When it is not here – I dunno it is like I can’t even relate to the thoughts I am having now. The problem is now that I have male friend who I am very good friends with. There is some kind of sexual tension going on. I don’t want there to be, but he is always touching me. I get erections or half erections like all the time. I think he knows this. I am disgusted by the fact this happens. It makes me truly want to vomit. I just cannot help it!! It is like the an erection frenzy – the more I don’t want them, i get them. Normal? Or gay? My mind says I must truly be gay.. Otherwise this wld not… Thomas November 11, 2014 at 12:03 am - Reply Touching me and sexual talk, sexual ways. I wish my brain would just not respond… Right now I am so depressed about it. I am constantly looking at women and feel like my attraction to them has all but gone – in this context. But there was a time a couple months ago that I stop looking at porn and masturbating and a whole New World opened up to me. I had sex with this girl who was only a relatively attractive, and without alcohol. I think some of this is porn induced – I don’t know. I just feel messed up, and hopeless that I will ever feel normal. Jonathan Hershfield November 18, 2014 at 2:26 am - Reply >>>>Touching me and sexual talk, sexual ways. I wish my brain would just not respond… —This “wishing” is a mental compulsion. You’re basically fantasizing about controlling the brain and washing away unwanted thoughts/feelings in a way that a germophobe uses hand sanitizer. The end result is feeling more out of control and more victimized by your OCD. >>>Right now I am so depressed about it. I am constantly looking at women and feel like my attraction to them has all but gone – in this context. —This form of checking is also a compulsion. >>> But there was a time a couple months ago that I stop looking at porn and masturbating and a whole New World opened up to me. I had sex with this girl who was only a relatively attractive, and without alcohol. I think some of this is porn induced – I don’t know. I just feel messed up, and hopeless that I will ever feel normal. —Separate from the OCD, it sounds like there are some clear benefits from you abstaining from pornography. Related to the OCD, any use of pornography aimed at proving your orientation only fuels the obsession. Are you in treatment? Jonathan Hershfield November 18, 2014 at 2:23 am - Reply Hi, it sounds like you have been trying not to have a certain sensations, trying to not have certain thoughts, and as with all OCD issues, this is producing the opposite of the desired results. Your post didn’t actually include a question though, so I’m not sure what else to add. What would make the most sense is to stop trying to control your thoughts and sensations and, as part of that, stop trying to be certain about their meaning. You start the post by saying you don’t want to be gay. If your definition of “being gay” is the mere presence of certain thoughts or sensations, then that’s a tall order. But I think that’s an illogical definition. Ken November 18, 2014 at 5:13 am - Reply Hi Jonathan, I’ve read this article and blog post and a lot the physical and mental things done by others matchings 90% of what I do or were doing. It brought me into tears, the last month or two I’ve been quiet down and depressed. I don’t know how it started but all I can remember is this after leaving high school and going to University I’ve always had sexual attraction and affection for woman. I keep checking out pretty girls online and stashing up great looking women, perving with friends at school and work etc. One night, I remember one bad dream I had where I was looking at this pretty girl/actress (three version) and I had to pick of one. Then out of nowhere she shouted “You’re GAY!”, that shocked me and I woke up with sweats running down my head and my body was shaking in tremor uncontrollably. I couldn’t get to sleep that night and stayed in bed thinking about it. Then there were reality TV shows like “playing it straight” popping up and asking question “are you gay or straight?” where they were being eliminated. This question started popping in my head ever since. This question keep running in my head non-stop, it comes and goes since leaving school and working. However month after getting sick, anxiety and this question constantly comes up? It seems like I have two voices in my head, one say you’re gay and in denial, the other is challenging it. I don’t know how to tell you but for some reason deep down somewhere I know I’m not gay but… Jonathan Hershfield November 19, 2014 at 7:05 pm - Reply >>>>I’ve read this article and blog post and a lot the physical and mental things done by others matchings 90% of what I do or were doing. It brought me into tears, the last month or two I’ve been quiet down and depressed. —Sorry you’re going through such a hard time, but glad the article resonated with you. >>>>I don’t know how it started but all I can remember is this after leaving high school and going to University I’ve always had sexual attraction and affection for woman. I keep checking out pretty girls online and stashing up great looking women, perving with friends at school and work etc. One night, I remember one bad dream I had where I was looking at this pretty girl/actress (three version) and I had to pick of one. Then out of nowhere she shouted “You’re GAY!”, that shocked me and I woke up with sweats running down my head and my body was shaking in tremor uncontrollably. I couldn’t get to sleep that night and stayed in bed thinking about it. Then there were reality TV shows like “playing it straight” popping up and asking question “are you gay or straight?” where they were being eliminated. This question started popping in my head ever since. This question keep running in my head non-stop, it comes and goes since leaving school and working. However month after getting sick, anxiety and this question constantly comes up? It seems like I have two voices in my head, one say you’re gay and in denial, the other is challenging it. I don’t know how to tell you but for some reason deep down somewhere I know I’m not gay but… —The first voice is probably your OCD mind, which says a lot of things completely outside of your control. The second voice, the one that challenges it, is you doing compulsions, responding to the OCD. Your response then fuels more aggressive nagging by the OCD. Since you can;t control the presence of unwanted thoughts (or any thoughts for that matter), it only makes sense to attempt to control the controllable, the voice that volunteers to challenge, analyze, and neutralize the unwanted thoughts. When you stop doing compulsions, the obsessions fade. CBT teaches you how to identify and resist compulsions systematically. The question is not the problem. The answering is the problem. Ken November 18, 2014 at 5:21 am - Reply I’m finding it very hard to stop. I started have intrusive dreams and thoughts over the last year or so. The last two weeks going out to shopping mall with my brothers and parents, I always avoid contact with both sex, other times I’m back to my ‘normal’ self 20+ years before. These days reading about LBGTQ articles and other sexual content makes me edgy and I avoid reading them. I also went online like others looking for answers but the more I’m trying the more its growing. It feels like I’m going insane and this has become my life, like I’ll be stuck here forever. Each days is like torture to go through and feels like I’m mentally and physically chained. I was on medication for anxiety and depression but those don’t seem to help me and I went off it on my free will and found I was better without them. I can still walk and talk and go out but I’ve had times where I just want to stay in bed but the question are you gay or straight keeps running through your head over and over and over again. Jonathan Hershfield November 19, 2014 at 7:09 pm - Reply >>>>I’m finding it very hard to stop. I started have intrusive dreams and thoughts over the last year or so. The last two weeks going out to shopping mall with my brothers and parents, I always avoid contact with both sex, other times I’m back to my ‘normal’ self 20+ years before. —Avoidance is a problematic compulsion and only sends the message back to your brain that the presence of these “gay” thought sis particularly important and meaningful. Avoidance makes everything worse. >>>These days reading about LBGTQ articles and other sexual content makes me edgy and I avoid reading them. I also went online like others looking for answers but the more I’m trying the more its growing. —Exactly. The more you try to analyze the obsession, the more intrusive the obsession becomes. Thus analysis/reassurance-seeking is the compulsion to get under control. >>>It feels like I’m going insane and this has become my life, like I’ll be stuck here forever. Each days is like torture to go through and feels like I’m mentally and physically chained. I was on medication for anxiety and depression but those don’t seem to help me and I went off it on my free will and found I was better without them. I can still walk and talk and go out but I’ve had times where I just want to stay in bed but the question are you gay or straight keeps running through your head over and over and over again. —The most effective treatment for obsessive compulsive disorder is cognitive behavioral therapy from an ocd specialist. Are you in treatment? Noodles November 19, 2014 at 2:51 pm - Reply Jon, Does actively agreeing with the intrusive thoughts or accepting them often lead to compulsive acceptance -reviewing and checking ,whilst agreeing?- Jonathan Hershfield November 19, 2014 at 7:31 pm - Reply I’m not sure I understand the question the way it is worded. If you are asking if people who do exposures often feel an urge to do compulsions, then the answer is yes. The goal would be to do the exposures intending for them to trigger this urge so that you can practice resisting compulsions in this state. Noodles November 20, 2014 at 10:23 pm - Reply Well what I mean is for those who practice exposures may find themselves compulsively setting up an exposure to prove themselves (reassurance) by actively and compulsively agreeing to the exposure by bringing up the thought you expose yourself to over and over, or whatever it maybe that one is exposing themselves to. Hopefully that makes sense. Jonathan Hershfield November 28, 2014 at 4:46 pm - Reply Sorry, Noodles, that sentence kind of ran on and on, but I think what you are asking is if compulsive flooding is a thing. Compulsive flooding is where a person purposely engages in exposures over and over for the purpose of checking, testing, or otherwise reassuring themselves that the thought is either disgusting or being appropriately dealt with. Yes, that is a thing. In these cases it may be important to do exposure to not doing exposure and take the risk that thought is being poorly addressed. Noodles November 25, 2014 at 6:37 pm - Reply It seems when I try to resist the mental compulsions I also without purpose start resisting the thoughts, which makes it worse.. how do I separate the two? Jonathan Hershfield November 28, 2014 at 4:51 pm - Reply Good question. The thing to remember is that you are responsible for what you can control, not what you can’t control. You can;t control when thoughts occur. However, when you become aware that you are engaging in mental behaviors to address the thought (i.e. analysis), you can label that and abandon it. Consider what a person would do if the thought came up during meditation. They would simply note it, label it “thinking” and then allow it to be without acting on it. Same applies to real life. In other words, don’t try so hard and accept that you may engage in some amount of thought stopping from time to time, but give it your best shot at recognizing mental rituals and walking away from them. L Walsh December 3, 2014 at 5:46 am - Reply Hi, I just wanted to thank you for writing this article. It really sums up a lot of my experiences several years ago when I used to suffer from hocd (unfortunately I never realized at the time and it’s only now after I have worked through the obsession that I can look back and realize what it was). I’d also like to say to all the people on his forum worried that their gay, it does go away and you can find happiness and security in your sexuality. It wasn’t until I accepted the potential fluidity and lack of certainty towards my sexual orientation that I found peace. Through doing that I actually came to realize that i was straight and most of my homosexual thoughts and urges disappeared. Never underestimate the power of your imagination Jonathan Hershfield December 5, 2014 at 5:25 am - Reply Thanks for your comment and glad the article resonated with you. leo December 12, 2014 at 9:24 pm - Reply Hi, I am a married male in my early 30’s. After reading many of the blogs, I find myself in the same situation as many if these people with trying to work through my biggest fear, the possibility of being homosexual. I am heterosexual and believe I have HOCD. I have tried coming to terms with this, but having a lot of trouble. What would be the best solutions? I feel that the HOCD is more of a physical thing sometimes. Any time a male puts theirs arms around someone of the same sex or myself, I start having spikes then it really starts to get to me. I have learned not to avoid people so the spikes started to decrease when I see people of the same sex. I still have the thoughts that come on and off again. I need to learn a strategy that will keep them away. Any tips? Sometimes it works other times it finds its way back in. My wife and I have been working very hard to get me on the right track. I started by stopping the reassurance. I want to continue having sexual relations with my wife because it feels good, but I want it to make sure it was not a reassurance issue or compulsion. Jonathan Hershfield December 18, 2014 at 9:51 pm - Reply Strategies aimed at “keeping away” unwanted thought sonly serve to make those thoughts more present and more intrusive. Rather than trying to control your thoughts, it would be better to accept that thoughts come and go as they please and need not be obsessed over before deciding behaviors. If you want to have sex with your wife, socialize, or do any other thing, you need not consult with your thoughts for permission. You seem to be headed in the right direction overall, but the next step is letting go of wishing the thoughts would go away as that only gives them cause to stick around. They are after all, just thoughts. Joe December 24, 2014 at 11:46 pm - Reply It’s been almost two months since I last commented on my progress. I believe I’m pretty much over all the issues regarding pornography and arousal patterns, and it doesn’t bother me anymore, which is great. Also, I think most of my actions related to issues of sexual identity and orientation, such as checking and watching homoerotic pictures and pornography at times of anxiety and fear, so I could prove ”something” (I don’t know what, to be honest, were ultimately driven by fear itself. As I stopped doing those things, my anxiety over the topic subsided, and in turn, I pretty much stopped caring or thinking about checking my potential and possible responses to visual stimuli. I have a better understanding of an issue that still somewhat persists. This is the issue of noticing attractive men. I try to handle the situation by not over thinking it or analyzing its meaning. This makes me feel like I don’t have a full control over the situation, almost like I allowed a giant fly to buzz around my head without silencing it. This in turn, provokes anxiety and worry, which after a day or two, subsides, and then I feel great again, and attractive men don’t spike my anxiety as much, and I relax a little, and start to notice and think about attractive women, and then I try not to over-analyze that, and I see all of this has turned into a cycle which repeats itself every couple of weeks. I feel like it will be always be like that and that I will end up alone, with my aforementioned pet giant fly. Is this a step forward or an unfortunate standstill? Thanks in advance. Jonathan Hershfield December 25, 2014 at 8:58 pm - Reply It sounds like you are on the right track, but struggle to be consistent with your behavior when anxiety sets in. Whatever is causing anxiety. agree with and encourage it. If that is noticing attractive men, then really notice them and really acknowledge that they are attractive. Joe December 24, 2014 at 11:59 pm - Reply I have to stress I’m not in a situation where I can afford psychotherapy. I think I’ve helped myself to an extent over the past six months. I had a much worse pattern consisting of spiked anxiety, confusion and fear, followed by binge checking (people, pictures, movies, porn), binge ”research” on sexuality and OCD, and binge dwelling on the anxiety, which would lead to me feeling reassured and calmer, until the cycle repeated and distorted itself into a severe bout of exhaustion and depression. It’s much better now, although I still get caught up in some unnecessary mental conundrums, obviously. Joe December 29, 2014 at 4:16 pm - Reply How common is social anxiety in people who might be suffering from OCD? I had moderate social anxiety in my early teens, but now it only shows up rarely, usually alongside general anxiety. I was meeting up with some relatives for the holidays, mostly older cousins, uncles, aunts, etc. Every time I get asked all sorts of questions regarding my life, school, health, girlfriends, etc. Because of various self-issues (including general anxiety and orientation-related anxiety and questionings), I am perpetually single, so I always give more or less the same answers. The questions did not bother me much earlier, but this time I was already somewhat anxious, prior to meeting with them, and during our time together, I had a major anxiety attack, which no one noticed, thankfully, but which almost flooded my brain with all sorts of thoughts regarding my orientation. It was really unsettling in all its intensity. All the previous ”evidence” suddenly started building up or distorting in my head, and I felt like I should say it all out loud or something just to avoid any questions. I thought: Is this how queer people feel about being closeted or coming out? I tried to accept that question as a very real possibility that I am queer, then said it to myself, somehow acknowledged it, and got back to the conversation. I don’t have a particular question but I just wanted to share this experience I was barely prepared for. Jonathan Hershfield January 5, 2015 at 4:39 pm - Reply >>>>How common is social anxiety in people who might be suffering from OCD? —Common. >>> I had moderate social anxiety in my early teens, but now it only shows up rarely, usually alongside general anxiety. I was meeting up with some relatives for the holidays, mostly older cousins, uncles, aunts, etc. Every time I get asked all sorts of questions regarding my life, school, health, girlfriends, etc. Because of various self-issues (including general anxiety and orientation-related anxiety and questionings), I am perpetually single, so I always give more or less the same answers. The questions did not bother me much earlier, but this time I was already somewhat anxious, prior to meeting with them, and during our time together, I had a major anxiety attack, which no one noticed, thankfully, but which almost flooded my brain with all sorts of thoughts regarding my orientation. It was really unsettling in all its intensity. All the previous ”evidence” suddenly started building up or distorting in my head, and I felt like I should say it all out loud or something just to avoid any questions. I thought: Is this how queer people feel about being closeted or coming out? I tried to accept that question as a very real possibility that I am queer, then said it to myself, somehow acknowledged it, and got back to the conversation. I don’t have a particular question but I just wanted to share this experience I was barely prepared for. —Sounds like you coped well with the situation. Social anxiety is an obsessive fear of being evaluated negatively. I have seen many clients with sexual orientation obsessions whose OCD functions mostly alongside this fear. Ollie December 30, 2014 at 5:16 pm - Reply Hi how many symptoms would you see I need to have to be hocd? Jonathan Hershfield January 5, 2015 at 4:41 pm - Reply I don’t know what “be hocd” means. Obsessive compulsive disorder is a mental health issue defined in the Diagnostic and Statistic Manual Part Five (DSM-V). It involves the presence of obsessions and/or compulsions, impairment, and a minimum of one hour of each day devoted to the issue. You can look up the diagnostic criteria in the DSM-V. Dominique December 31, 2014 at 10:16 am - Reply I’m sorry that this is so long, but HOCD is really ruining my life, and I know it’s terrible to look for reassurance but I really need some professional help from a real OCD specialist. I’m a 16 year old girl, and started having the thought of ‘Am I Gay?’ about four months ago, around the time that both of my closest friends came out as a lesbian and Bi. I think a big reason at the beginning was that I could never see myself in a relationship, but I think that’s more of a self esteem issue (e.g. no one would really put up with me, I could never fall in love, etc.) The first video I watched about ‘Are You a Lesbian’ gave me a huge spike, even though it was all a joke about stereotypes and stuff. Then I couldn’t stop testing myself about kissing girls in my class. My face probably said it all because it felt pretty unappealing to me (not necessarily completely nauseating, but like you said it didn’t feel right or like home). And then I had to imagine myself in a relationship with a girl, which I know for sure that I don’t want. Eventually I became kind of indifferent to the idea of kissing a girl though, and that freaked me out a lot. I’ve always been kind of masculine because I like hard rock and I play rock guitar and bass and now I feel so terrible about it. My mind kept pressuring me to accept it at the beginning, but ironically, my first thought when I tried to come out myself as gay was ‘Does this mean I can’t like boys anymore?’. Then I was convinced I was Bi, because I saw a video by a Youtuber named Scarlet Saint when she talked about her being Bi, and how she was often told, ‘you’re in denial’, ‘you’re gay really’…I didn’t know that she was talking about other people’s reactions, I thought she was talking about her own thoughts. I know that I’m not gay, but it feels so real, and like I’m the gayest person on the planet. It doesn’t help that I’ve never been in a relationship or been kissed (I’m a pretty lame kid) and that I feel insecure so I cover myself up most of the time with clothes (I also have lots of social and intimacy anxiety…like…a lot). I’ve been to therapy before but she was just a talk therapist (which probably made it worse), and she tried to give me self esteem exercises, and she specializes in stuff like eating disorders and self harm, which wasn’t something I had. I know that I’ve always had crushes on boys, since Kindergarten for god’s sake, but since it never went past a crush and I was never capable of opening myself up to any of them, like I said before, I feel like the gayest person on the planet. And another huge problem is that I have a thing for guys with longer hair, probably stemming from my love of classic rock. That makes me feel like I would like girls because of the whole ‘feminine thing’, even though I really don’t like feminine guys, and would way prefer a masculine guy. About a month ago I was starting to feel great, and then I got a huge backdoor spike and it’s back worse than ever because I just feel so gay all the time, I can’t even watch the movies I loved like Lord of the Rings because you know…what straight girl watches those? I just want this to be over. Jonathan Hershfield January 6, 2015 at 2:11 am - Reply >>>>I’m sorry that this is so long, but HOCD is really ruining my life, and I know it’s terrible to look for reassurance but I really need some professional help from a real OCD specialist. —I can’t offer you professional help via blog comments. For professional help, you have to actually meet with a professional. If you want to let me know where you are geographically, perhaps I can recommend an OCD specialist in your area. >>>>I’m a 16 year old girl, and started having the thought of ‘Am I Gay?’ about four months ago, around the time that both of my closest friends came out as a lesbian and Bi. I think a big reason at the beginning was that I could never see myself in a relationship, but I think that’s more of a self esteem issue (e.g. no one would really put up with me, I could never fall in love, etc.) The first video I watched about ‘Are You a Lesbian’ gave me a huge spike, even though it was all a joke about stereotypes and stuff. Then I couldn’t stop testing myself about kissing girls in my class. My face probably said it all because it felt pretty unappealing to me (not necessarily completely nauseating, but like you said it didn’t feel right or like home). And then I had to imagine myself in a relationship with a girl, which I know for sure that I don’t want. Eventually I became kind of indifferent to the idea of kissing a girl though, and that freaked me out a lot. —A common misconception about sexual orientation is that to be one thing, you’re somehow supposed to be disgusted by the other. This has always seemed a bit silly to me. I think the more common sentiment about other orientations is more likely to be indifference than disgust, but that’s just an opinion. >>> I’ve always been kind of masculine because I like hard rock and I play rock guitar and bass and now I feel so terrible about it. —Before becoming a therapist, I promoted indie rock bands throughout LA. I met countless badass heterosexual female rockers (and a few homosexual ones too). You feeling terrible about rock and roll is a choice you are making. Rock on, I say. >>>>My mind kept pressuring me to accept it at the beginning, but ironically, my first thought when I tried to come out myself as gay was ‘Does this mean I can’t like boys anymore?’. Then I was convinced I was Bi, because I saw a video by a Youtuber named Scarlet Saint when she talked about her being Bi, and how she was often told, ‘you’re in denial’, ‘you’re gay really’…I didn’t know that she was talking about other people’s reactions, I thought she was talking about her own thoughts. I know that I’m not gay, but it feels so real, and like I’m the gayest person on the planet. It doesn’t help that I’ve never been in a relationship or been kissed (I’m a pretty lame kid) and that I feel insecure so I cover myself up most of the time with clothes (I also have lots of social and intimacy anxiety…like…a lot). I’ve been to therapy before but she was just a talk therapist (which probably made it worse), and she tried to give me self esteem exercises, and she specializes in stuff like eating disorders and self harm, which wasn’t something I had. I know that I’ve always had crushes on boys, since Kindergarten for god’s sake, but since it never went past a crush and I was never capable of opening myself up to any of them, like I said before, I feel like the gayest person on the planet. —You should be careful with hyperbolic statements like this. Somewhere out there is probably the gayest person on the planet and they probably don’t think the two of you compare. >>> And another huge problem is that I have a thing for guys with longer hair, probably stemming from my love of classic rock. That makes me feel like I would like girls because of the whole ‘feminine thing’, even though I really don’t like feminine guys, and would way prefer a masculine guy. —So you’re saying the girls that went for Axl Rose and Brett Michaels are lesbians? >>>>About a month ago I was starting to feel great, and then I got a huge backdoor spike and it’s back worse than ever because I just feel so gay all the time, I can’t even watch the movies I loved like Lord of the Rings because you know…what straight girl watches those? I just want this to be over. —I don;t know anyone who can watch all of Lord of the Rings without questioning the use of their time on Earth. What you seem to be dealing with are a few distorted beliefs about what it means to actually be homosexual and an obsessive fear that if you fail to get certainty about how to label yourself, you’ll become some kind of “were-degeneres” or something (that’s a person who turns into Ellen on a full moon). A better strategy for approaching this obsession would be to mentally agree with the uncertainty when you have unwanted thoughts. Yes, maybe I’m this, maybe I’m that, and so be it. In the meantime, since you seem relatively certain that you have intimacy issues and some social anxiety, you should work on addressing the behaviors that feed into that. If you have the goal of confidence in your identity, you will need to start setting social goals for yourself and identifying barriers to those goals. The barriers are not simply the presence or absence of thoughts about labels. It has to do with avoidance of the things that make you anxious and buying into negative self-thoughts that don’t mean anything. Beth January 8, 2015 at 9:10 pm - Reply Hi Jon, I know you cannot officially diagnose someone over a forum but I’m just really confused. I’m 19 years old and growing up I was never “boy crazy” but I liked boys and had crushes on them and wanted to kiss them etc, in fact I had a crush on the same boy for year when I was little. I would have a crush on 1 boy for a significatn period of time usually, so I could probably count the number of “big” crushes I’ve had on my hands (not including the occasional teacher). Anyway as I got older, and I got a computer, I found porn images on google (accidental) and it was of all different types but they intrigued me. Then as I grew older, at 16, I then discovered porn videos and I discovered that lesbian porn turned me on, so I would masturbate to this. However I would always dream and daydream about relationships with guys. Not long after this I was having a conversation and I said something, that I can’t recall but it was relating to someone being “gay” and my sister made a joke about me being gay and it upset me. I’m not sure if it was guilt or embarrassment for what I watched but it struck me and I start to become self concious of how I dressed,walked and talked. Even if I overheard my friends talking about someone being gay I would think it was about me. In high school, I very much admired the popular girls and wanted to emulate them because it meant I would get invited to parties and to talk to the hot boys in school (however sometimes, my anxiety will pick up on this and try and convince that I wanted to be WITH them rather than be LIKE them). I have always been shy around men, as I have social anxiety and especially now since I go to clubs and stuff and I always feel anxious around them even when I really don’t want to be. One day I came across a social anxiety forum where a woman discussed that she was nervous around me, but she was a lesbian and that sent me into a wave of panic, that night and many nights after, I couldn’t sleep. My head was filled with thoughts of “oh what if you are gay” and all these images filled my head and they wouldn’t go away no matter how much I tried. This went on for over a month. I have been terrified ever since. I’m in a dilemma of is it HOCD or denial. One half of my mind says it’s HOCD because if I were gay I would have realized it long before now and you’ve always liked boys and the other half says “yeah but what if you have always known and repressed it. I have also noticed that my anxiety and obsessive behaviour becomes a lot worse during PMS, so I’m not sure if the anxiety is hormonal. Jonathan Hershfield January 12, 2015 at 5:05 am - Reply Sounds like an obsession to me. Also, many women find their OCD/anxiety worsens during their time of the month. Ollie January 10, 2015 at 7:41 pm - Reply Hi Dr hershfield it’s ollie again who posted on dec 30 I apologise for not explaining myself well enough, here’s how it is. I am male by the way. I started struggling from this anxiety problem ages ago(2 years) and eventually found myself looking on the Internet to see what was going on and I found hocd. I read into it and saw that all the symptoms I was experiencing were identical to those of hocd, (ie, groinal response, checking for arousal, checking for attraction, avoidance of music associated with homosexuality, intrusive thoughts , sexuality tests on the Internet and the list goes on ) I’ve had them all. So I was sure that it was hocd for ages and it was up and down with the battle. But as time went on I found ways of dealing with them for example I could dismiss arousal because I read that any sexual thought may cause arousal. And as you can imagine as I dismissed the symptoms they popped up less and where less apparent. One day I read that all these thoughts and feelings are coming from hocd which mean your not gay. Then the thought popped up “what if it’s not hocd and I am gay”. Then I thought no I’ve had all those symptoms but they weren’t so clear anymore and began obsessing that I didn’t have it. I was repeatively racking my brain for symtoms, going on hocd websites and counting all the symptoms but the anxiety built up as some of them I had excluded and I could not remember so clearly and so I could rely on having them. My brain started telling me I didn’t have it. I have been on hocd websites for ages counting up my symptoms and counting them again i felt i said it in my head wrong or too quickly. I have been researching for week ways of knowing it hocd, I am extremely frightened of going to a therapist as I worry that they may not know of it and simply say I’m gay. I weirdly had an extremely straight past in fact when I was 11 or 12 I got in trouble for being homophobic. I Was even into lesbian porn more than straight. I have spent some nights about 3 hours and been up till 3 am ritualising on the same few thoughts. I have more hocd symptoms to tell you but I don’t want this post to be too long as I understand you are a working professional. By the way I don’t know if it makes a difference by I have had the hand washing ocd as well. I just want to be happy like I was before thank you. Jonathan Hershfield January 12, 2015 at 5:25 am - Reply You didn’t ask a question. You described having many OCD symptoms, including online reassurance seeking and compulsively seeking certainty about having OCD. You didn’t mention any effort to get treatment for OCD, which I recommend. Ollie January 10, 2015 at 7:46 pm - Reply The basic problem is that I don’t know if it is hocd or not. Jonathan Hershfield January 12, 2015 at 5:26 am - Reply You’ll have to guess. If you guess that it’s OCD, it makes sense to get treatment for it even if you might have guessed wrong. Ollie January 10, 2015 at 7:57 pm - Reply Despite having had all those symptoms I am still struggling. Jonathan Hershfield January 12, 2015 at 5:26 am - Reply You struggle because you use compulsions to seek certainty. Ollie January 12, 2015 at 8:44 pm - Reply So does that not mean I have hocd. Jonathan Hershfield January 22, 2015 at 7:39 pm - Reply I didn’t say that. I believe what I said was you were doing compulsions. Ollie January 12, 2015 at 8:47 pm - Reply I was previously asking if you thought I had ocd. Jonathan Hershfield January 22, 2015 at 7:42 pm - Reply I can’t diagnose you from a blog comment. You described having an obsession and engaging in multiple compulsions. A reasonable next step would be to get an assessment for OCD from a professional who can do so. Lucio Odisei January 21, 2015 at 2:18 pm - Reply Great article!! I struggled against H Ocd for 2 years and it was toughest battle in my life. But now i’m finally free and this is happened also for beatiful article like this. I would like to underline one point: It’s true that therapists who are not OCD specialists may be more psychodynamically trained and feel pressure to view HOCD as an identity issue when it is not. This is true and it’s a real real problem for many people. How is the therapist’s community managing this problem? Thanks a lot for all the info. Lucio Jonathan Hershfield January 22, 2015 at 8:36 pm - Reply >>>>Great article!! I struggled against H Ocd for 2 years and it was toughest battle in my life. But now i’m finally free and this is happened also for beatiful article like this. —Thanks, that’s a nice thing to hear! >>>>I would like to underline one point: It’s true that therapists who are not OCD specialists may be more psychodynamically trained and feel pressure to view HOCD as an identity issue when it is not. This is true and it’s a real real problem for many people. How is the therapist’s community managing this problem? —Good question. I’m just one person and I write blogs like these, which I hope help people like yourself. There are other therapists who engage in similar efforts. The International OCD Foundation (iocdf.org) sponsors something called the Behavioral Therapy training Institute (BTTI), which goes from city to city training therapists how to do CBT for OCD. The Association of Behavioral and Cognitive Therapies also does a lot of work educating clinicians about CBT I believe. Joe January 31, 2015 at 12:18 am - Reply How is the issue of anxiety cycles addressed in CBT/ERP therapy? Do you assign homeworks, or do mindfulness practices help with managing the anxiety? I commented before on how I have a pattern of spiraling into anxiety and panic from time to time. I think I did myself a disservice anytime I tried to suppress or wish away my anxiety and worry. This is the complete opposite of a mindful approach, I suppose. Being aware of such unproductive, almost automatic responses to a thought or a feeling is something a client is probably educated on in therapy. I have posted several comments regarding the anxiety issue because I’m starting to feel it needs to be addressed on its own, separated from any possible sexuality subtext. Jonathan Hershfield February 1, 2015 at 5:06 am - Reply Hi Joe, sounds like you have the answers already and are ready to start implementing them. Wishing or avoiding anxiety away doesn’t work and only sends the message to the brain that anxiety is intolerable or dangerous. Mindfulness approaches to accepting, tolerating, and understanding anxiety are very useful. In CBT a therapist would likely also be teaching you how to recognize distorted thinking that worsens anxiety and giving you assignments to track and challenge some of this thinking. Michelle January 31, 2015 at 12:57 am - Reply Hi Dr.Hershfield I’ve posted before and thanks for your response. What would you say to the fear I have that I would see a specialist or therapist trained in treating ocd but then told I don’t have OCD? I fear the anxiety and then constant doubt and ruminating that would go on if I was told I don’t have a disorder (and thus accepting everything I am going through as reality). However, at the same time that I fear I am just in denial of accepting what my sexuality may be (because at this point I feel like I just can’t be sure), I also fear I will go into denial by accepting I have OCD. Which would lead me to “repressing” a part or me and for it to come up later and cause a lot of distress and I would realize I could have been happier with my life. So i guess this is where accepting uncertainty comes in? I know you can’t answer this for me. I am currently in a long term relationship with a man and we do plan on getting married (which I’ve always wanted) and I really am scared of ruining this. But I know ppl could be with one person of whatever gender and still want other genders. I also worry about scenaroos of my bf dying and then what I would do and what my life would be like and try to “imagine” this, like I am trying to “figure” it out. And while I have obsessive or compulsive thinking on this topic A LOT, pretty much daily for over a year, I can’t be certain it is for an hour EVERY day. Sometimes it can be wayyyyyy longer then an hour on certain days though. So would this classify as OCD? Jonathan Hershfield February 1, 2015 at 5:14 am - Reply >>>>Hi Dr.Hershfield I’ve posted before and thanks for your response. What would you say to the fear I have that I would see a specialist or therapist trained in treating ocd but then told I don’t have OCD? —It’s certainly a common fear. People who suffer with Harm OCD also worry that they may be misdiagnosed as psychotic or dangerous. This is not an entirely irrational fear, since there are certainly plenty of therapists out there who are not trained in treating or assessing for OCD. On one hand, I would say that you need to accept the fear and take your chances because the consequences of not getting help are possibly worse than the consequences of having a bad therapy session and being upset about it. On the other hand, I would strongly encourage you to see someone who actually specializes in the treatment of OCD, and not just someone who says they treat it (as many do). A good place to start is with the iocdf.org. >>>>I fear the anxiety and then constant doubt and ruminating that would go on if I was told I don’t have a disorder (and thus accepting everything I am going through as reality). However, at the same time that I fear I am just in denial of accepting what my sexuality may be (because at this point I feel like I just can’t be sure), I also fear I will go into denial by accepting I have OCD. Which would lead me to “repressing” a part or me and for it to come up later and cause a lot of distress and I would realize I could have been happier with my life. So i guess this is where accepting uncertainty comes in? I know you can’t answer this for me. —No, I suppose I can’t. But I would point out that you are the one who put “repressing” in quotations because some part of you recognizes that the word doesn’t mean anything of value in this discussion. I would encourage you to consider that the assumptions you are making about how you would cope with any unwanted experience in the future might be a product of your OCD distorting your perception. >>>I am currently in a long term relationship with a man and we do plan on getting married (which I’ve always wanted) and I really am scared of ruining this. But I know ppl could be with one person of whatever gender and still want other genders. I also worry about scenaroos of my bf dying and then what I would do and what my life would be like and try to “imagine” this, like I am trying to “figure” it out. And while I have obsessive or compulsive thinking on this topic A LOT, pretty much daily for over a year, I can’t be certain it is for an hour EVERY day. Sometimes it can be wayyyyyy longer then an hour on certain days though. So would this classify as OCD? —Don’t forget to include the time you spend trying to be certain you have OCD — that goes into the hour too! Can’t diagnose you from my laptop, but you describe symptoms that are very consistent with what I am used to treating. The ritual you describe of imagining future scenarios and trying to figure them out is something I call “scenario bending” in The Mindfulness Workbook for OCD. Congratulations on the wedding plans, even if OCD is making it difficult to enjoy right now. Kellie February 1, 2015 at 9:08 am - Reply Hi Dr. Hershfield, Thank you so much for this information. I have been very relieved to find your pages on this. All the signs and symptoms I was having I was definitely experiencing but not so much to the degree that it was impacting on the way I lived my life. It has just been an internal worry. As I am in a serious relationship that I think will lead to marriage – so i’ve had this thought but what if I’m gay? and that I have been dragging him along all this time with this secret!? I also love lifting weights and have a natural athletic build so that also added to my worry that I’m not a typical straight female? I also admire a lot of strong athletic females which added to my confusion. and then “testing” myself with images and freaking out when I do feel something but then as you’ve put it attention causes sensation! After reading lots about it and hearing others stories. I now don’t feel so alone about it and am starting to tell myself so what they are just thoughts! I have had anxiety in the past and seen a psychologists and been taught mindfulness techniques. i’ve felt a lot about it, but in your opinion does everyone who has this form of OCD need to see someone about it? I was planning on seeing someone about it, but now I don’t feel I need to as I feel so much better about it after reading your posts. Some of the signs are still there but I am able to brush past them and accept that they are just thoughts. But am I in danger mentally if I dont see someone about it? P.s. I think it’s very admirable that in your profession you are dedicating time to reply to people’s posts, thank you. Kellie Jonathan Hershfield February 8, 2015 at 6:22 am - Reply >>>Thank you so much for this information. I have been very relieved to find your pages on this. All the signs and symptoms I was having I was definitely experiencing but not so much to the degree that it was impacting on the way I lived my life. It has just been an internal worry. As I am in a serious relationship that I think will lead to marriage – so i’ve had this thought but what if I’m gay? and that I have been dragging him along all this time with this secret!? —Like any scary thought, there is always a grain of uncertainty that you have to learn to cope with. Consider that if you didn’t have this word “gay” to obsess on, you could just as easily imagine that marrying your boyfriend might mean “dragging him along” for some other reason. It may be a risk you have to take if you want to lead a fulfilling life since the alternative is basically to avoid doing anything that means anything to you. >>>I also love lifting weights and have a natural athletic build so that also added to my worry that I’m not a typical straight female? —I think it’s important to remember that the whole idea of “typical straight female” is just a meme you’ve been sold by the culture you live in. You may not be “typical” in a large variety of ways, but this provides no information about your sexual orientation. >>>>I also admire a lot of strong athletic females which added to my confusion. and then “testing” myself with images and freaking out when I do feel something but then as you’ve put it attention causes sensation! —Keep admiring beauty wherever you see it. But testing is the enemy of awareness. >>>After reading lots about it and hearing others stories. I now don’t feel so alone about it and am starting to tell myself so what they are just thoughts! I have had anxiety in the past and seen a psychologists and been taught mindfulness techniques. i’ve felt a lot about it, but in your opinion does everyone who has this form of OCD need to see someone about it? I was planning on seeing someone about it, but now I don’t feel I need to as I feel so much better about it after reading your posts. Some of the signs are still there but I am able to brush past them and accept that they are just thoughts. But am I in danger mentally if I dont see someone about it? —-I certainly wouldn’t describe you as being in mental danger. It sounds like you don’t have a severe case of the disorder, either because you are just not wired to be severe or because you have learned to be more mindful of your thoughts. Getting treatment is a very personal decision, but to answer your question directly, no, I don’t think everyone with this (or any) form of OCD has to get therapy. I think if your functioning is impaired, then that has to be taken seriously, and this often means seeking professional guidance. If your struggle with anxiety and obsessions feels like it is getting out of control, then it might be wise to ask for help. In the meantime, it might be a good idea to read a book or two about OCD, get a deeper sense of how and when to use the tools you have already begun to use. >>>P.s. I think it’s very admirable that in your profession you are dedicating time to reply to people’s posts, thank you. —Thank you, that’s kind of you to say. Be well! Barry February 14, 2015 at 1:34 am - Reply So first I’d like to say thanks for writing these articles, they’ve been really helpful with me understanding certain aspects of my OCD. I’d also like to open this message with a few notes. First being that I am in therapy, so I’m not using this thread as some kind of “cure all” answer to my problems. But my main problem is that my therapist doesn’t seem too adapt at handling OCD; she’s worked with people with anxiety disorders, but she often seems a bit reluctant when it comes to working with me on my OCD related problems. I’m hoping maybe I can gain some insight so I can bring some information to my therapy session and maybe help move things along. And now for the long spiel… Basically, I’ve been deal with OCD since I was very young. I remember being terrified of irrational things (ex: being possessed by demons, catching rare diseases from touching door knobs, etc) and going through the motions with various compulsions, like snapping my fingers a certain amount of times and twitching my hand. Entering into middle school one of the fears that plagued me the most was the fear of being gay. I had always been incredibly shy and uncomfortable with the idea of relationships (I often times felt that I was probably Asexual, since I had no interest at all in dating). A few years before middle school I had an incident with my brother (who is gay) where he became curios one night and experimented with me while I was sleeping, pressing his erection up against my rear end. I woke and became very scared, he stopped immediately and we never spoke of it again until years later when I confronted him with this and we worked our way through it. Of course, back then, this messed with my head in a monumental way. It haunted me and snuck its way into my head as a way of causing me panic and anxiety. But back to middle school… In middle school I started to bloom a bit, but I still was very avoidant of relationships. But then I started to worry “What if I’m gay?” I heard classmates talk about it and I saw things on TV, and part of me knew that my brother was gay, but I began to fear that I was gay too. I started feeling petrified when looking at male peers, I would get nervous and start having images in my head of them in romantic situations. I was petrified and start more compulsions. Still, I was obstinate against any romantic interaction, that was until High School. In high school, while I was still dealing with a lot of these fears, I fell hard for a female friend of mine and couldn’t help but put all my efforts towards being with her. Slowly, after trying to win her affections, I started to loosen my stance on sexuality, and I let myself enjoy the (to put it delicately) budding nature of my female classmates. Because of this a lot of my fears began to subside, though I’m sure some of them still bugged me, I just can’t remember since it was so long ago (I’m now in my mid-twenties, so high school was a little ways back). Anyways, I’ve always dealt with sexual obsession, even after I started to try and date girls. I would have stretches where I feared that I was a pedophile, or that I was incestuous, or that I was sexually attracted to animals. I often times would use pornography as a way of distracting my thoughts towards a more pleasant sexual experience, but after time this starts to diminish my interests and, honestly, I started to feel guilty about it. But still, even while dealing with all these fears, I was always comfortable identifying myself as straight. I never really questioned it, I just assumed that I was straight and that all these things had to have come from some other part of consciousness. I continued to have crushes on various women, I continued to try and date, and along the way I found myself enjoying the whole situation. Jumping ahead… Now I’m in my mid-twenties and a few months back I started to date this girl. I had never really had an actual girlfriend before so this was really exciting for me. After our first date I felt ecstatic in all those goofy little ways that one hears about in pop songs and Fred Astaire movies (music sounded better, food tasted more elegant, you get the picture, I assume). About a month into our relationship my girlfriend, somewhat offhandedly, mentioned homosexuality. I told her that my brother was gay and she asked me if he was my older or younger brother. I told older and she said something about having read an article where it statically showed that most times the youngest child is the most likely to be gay. Well, this didn’t set well with me. I immediately started to question everything in my past and, not surprisingly, I found a treasure trove of “evidence” that proved without question that I was a gay man in denial. What happened over the next couple of weeks was the most bizarre things I had ever experienced. I started to deconstruct my childhood. I looked back on all the times where I felt anxious and nervous around male classmates and TV characters. I started to remember some of my early “gay thoughts”, pleasant sort of curiosity that I had as a young kid. I would fight these with reminders of early “straight thoughts” and incidents; having a sort of early puppy dog crush on my sister’s friend and a rather embarrassing incident where I was watching a film with my folks featured a women in her underwear that caused me to, well… grow in front of them (never going to let that one down). But it was never good enough, my mind kept convincing me that I was living a lie and that no matter how happy I was with my girlfriend it didn’t matter and that I was doomed to leave her. I would be with my girlfriend and I would constantly check and see if I was aroused by her, wondering why I wasn’t checking her out all the time. Wondering if it felt “right” to be with her. This drove me nuts and stressed the hell out of me. I just wanted to kick back and enjoy our time together, but every moment I was worrying. As I descended deeper into my worries I started to fear that I was becoming attracted to men all around me. I would check myself to groinal responses and started to notice all kinds of movement and starring feelings in my loins. This launched me into a stressful tale spin. I was convinced that I was gay and this was the final piece of evidence. I started to fear that I was attracted to my co-workers and even started to feel like I was developing crushes on them, getting nervous and weak when they came around, not being able to look at them. I couldn’t shake images of these people out of my head and was constantly barraged with images of shirtless men in my head. I couldn’t break them, it was like I had to stare into my mind and focus on these images. Then I would spend the next few moments inspecting my groin and wondering if I had aroused by those images. I couldn’t tell. It felt like I was aroused, it tingled and felt odd. In set the despair. Now I have these triggers that will set me off. I could be having a perfectly pleasant day when all of the sudden I’ll see a guy in tight t-shirt and I’ll panic. Immediately, I’ll break my gaze, but it’s too late, I’m already freaking out about it. And then in set the images and the feelings. I can’t convince myself that I’m not becoming aroused by this and it makes me feel so depressed. The worst part is that I feel like my sexual attraction to women has diminished. There are a few moments where I feel like my old self, but most of the time it feels like I’ve crossed over and that I’ll never find my way back. These new emotions are so much stronger, I wonder to myself if they’ve always been there and if they’re stronger because their more “real” than the old ones. In the back of my head and voice rings out saying “Just give in, it’ll make you happy.” But I can’t do it. I can’t reconcile all these new things. It’s so frustrating. Sadly, my girlfriend called things off with me after a few months (though I don’t think it had anything to do with my problems, I often fear that it might). In the wake of our breakup things calmed down a bit and I even found myself feeling a little bit like my old self, but after some time it all came howling back worse than ever. Now, without the safety of my relationship, my fear is that I will be forced to become a gay person. My mind is constantly bombarded with images and feelings and thoughts and I can’t seem to convince myself otherwise. It doesn’t make me feel anxious anymore, it just frustrates and annoys me. I want to see if I can work things out with my ex or I suppose even move on to a new relationship, but I keep feeling like I’m not allowed to have those relationships and that I should just accept my new life, but I can’t. Something just doesn’t add up, but I still feel like this whole new person and fear that I’ll never get back to the man I was. I start to worry that I was never happy and that I was just forcing myself to like girls. I start to worry that my whole life was a lie and that everything I know about myself is just some sort of rues. I was hoping that I could get some ideas of things to approach my therapist with. She’s mentioned starting CBT, and I’m open to it, but I just can’t get all these thoughts straight in my head. I have some many questions and feel so confused. I know there isn’t an ultimate answer. I’ll never know whether I’m 100% gay or straight, but, man, it’s such a tempting question to ask myself. Jonathan Hershfield February 16, 2015 at 12:21 am - Reply Sounds like OCD, the treatment for which is CBT. Your comment had a lot of information in it, but didn’t ask any questions, so that’s all I can say at this point. You describe a lot of common symptoms and they are treatable. Barry February 16, 2015 at 6:48 am - Reply I guess one of my questions should have been about CBT. My therapist has mentioned the possibility of starting it up, and I’ve shown interest, but she has yet to get around to explaining it to me. How will the CBT help me with these intrusive thoughts & fears. The biggest and most annoying aspect of this is the newest development I’ve mentioned. I’ll be bombarded by these thoughts (usually triggered by a specific image that I’ll stumble upon) which will lead to me checking myself, in an instant, wondering if it’s leading to any groinal response. Sometimes all these thoughts will leave me with feelings that will last for the rest of the day, even after I’ve stopped panicking. I’ll just feel weird and creeped out for the rest of the day because I have this lingering feeling in my groin. It’s a sort of arousal that feels odd (it’s a bit hard to explain). Is this normal for people with OCD? If it was just an OCD thing shouldn’t it have gone away immediately? And how will CBT help with this problem? Jonathan Hershfield February 18, 2015 at 12:59 am - Reply >>>>I guess one of my questions should have been about CBT. My therapist has mentioned the possibility of starting it up, and I’ve shown interest, but she has yet to get around to explaining it to me. —If you have to ask more than once, then this is probably not an appropriate treatment provider for OCD. >>>How will the CBT help me with these intrusive thoughts & fears. —This is a pretty general question better answered by reading a book about OCD or checking out some of the info at iocdf.org. Here’s a comprehensive explanation: http://iocdf.org/about-ocd/treatment/cbt/ In short, cbt works by teaching you how to recognize and challenge distorted thinking about your experience and by gradually exposing you to your fears while resisting compulsions so that your brain has to recalculate its position. >>>>The biggest and most annoying aspect of this is the newest development I’ve mentioned. I’ll be bombarded by these thoughts (usually triggered by a specific image that I’ll stumble upon) which will lead to me checking myself, in an instant, wondering if it’s leading to any groinal response. Sometimes all these thoughts will leave me with feelings that will last for the rest of the day, even after I’ve stopped panicking. I’ll just feel weird and creeped out for the rest of the day because I have this lingering feeling in my groin. It’s a sort of arousal that feels odd (it’s a bit hard to explain). —It sounds like the problem is one in which you are forming a judgment about a physical sensation and are disturbed by this judgment. But the judgment is optional, not mandatory. >>>Is this normal for people with OCD? —The experience as you describe it is common for people I have seen with sexual obsessions in OCD. >>>If it was just an OCD thing shouldn’t it have gone away immediately? —Since it has developed over time by you responding to it in a specific way, it does not follow that it should go away immediately the moment you change you response to it, nor is it clear that you have changed your response. >>>And how will CBT help with this problem? —See above. More specifically, you would want to look at what it is that you are thinking about these groinal responses and how you are responding behaviorally to their existence. ERP may involve some form of exposure to the idea that you are having the responses for really scary reasons, but how to approach this specifically should be worked out with a therapist who is familiar with treating OCD. Barry February 19, 2015 at 5:51 am - Reply What’s the difference between confronting my triggers and testing? I was always told not to test myself, because it would always backfire on me. But how do I approach my triggers in a way that will help me get over the anxiety that they will bring? I start to feel very anxious and notice a swirl of feelings flooding over me when I’m met with a trigger (ie: a person who I fear I might find attractive or a sexual themed image), then I’m left with a litany of confusing emotions and a great deal of anxiety. This leads to me wanting to avoid these things, but sometimes I’ll try and test myself by looking at these things and it will start the cycle all over again. How will confronting these images (possibly with CBT) help me get over them. How will it be any different? Jonathan Hershfield February 21, 2015 at 5:14 pm - Reply >>>>What’s the difference between confronting my triggers and testing? —Confronting a trigger (exposure) would be to allow yourself to be in the presence of the uncomfortable thought, feeling, or sensation and purposely resist the urge to explain, rationalize, or neutralize it in any way. This may include mindfully allowing it to be there un-responded to or actively agreeing with it and saying “maybe it’s true.” Testing is the opposite of this, analyzing the trigger in the hopes of self-reassuring and getting some kind of certainty about it;s meaning (which is impossible and ultimately always fails and worsens the obsession). >>>>I was always told not to test myself, because it would always backfire on me. But how do I approach my triggers in a way that will help me get over the anxiety that they will bring? —Rather than focusing on “getting rid” of anxiety, you must first focus on learning to be in the presence of anxiety. It is a normal human emotion. The reason it feels dangerous to you is because you respond to it like it is dangerous. >>>I start to feel very anxious and notice a swirl of feelings flooding over me when I’m met with a trigger (ie: a person who I fear I might find attractive or a sexual themed image), then I’m left with a litany of confusing emotions and a great deal of anxiety. This leads to me wanting to avoid these things, but sometimes I’ll try and test myself by looking at these things and it will start the cycle all over again. —Testing, which is something you do in the hopes of convincing yourself that your fears are false, is just another form of avoidance. Avoidance only ever sends the message to your brain that the thing you are avoiding must be dangerous. The cycle doesn’t start over, it simply never ends because the testing is refueling it. >>>How will confronting these images (possibly with CBT) help me get over them. How will it be any different? —Because rather than doing exposure with compulsions, you will be doing exposure with response prevention. There are many good books on ERP and CBT and how they are used to treat OCD. You can also learn more about the subject at iocdf.org. Lia October 30, 2015 at 1:30 am - Reply I’m dealing with it right now and I hate it so much i just dont know who im anymore i used to not doubt im attracted to boys because i had reasons to believe i was i genuinely liked boys i only wanted to have sex with boys and relationships and everything but now my hocd keeps distorting my past completely like everything i found something to doubt my sexuality but mostly it’s taking all my real attractions and saying with was fake and the forced by society and saying that i was attracted to most girls but didnt notice/knew because i was blinded by my fake attraction and right now it fells like i’m not letting myself be gay if it makes sense like it make me feel i’m gay but i’m not accepting it and i’m i know that i have to accept it but it fell to real to me like all my fears are definitely gonna happen and I will never ever again like a guy again (thats what my brain is telling me lately) and i hate how it doesnt let me be anything but a lesbian like i could accept being bi i could accept me linking girls and boys and maybe i had some same-sex attraction and didnt knew .. like ok it’s fine i would still had the chance of having the life i always wanted and wished for but i cant understand how im a lesbian and i cant understand how everything that i ever felt towards boys was totally fake or forced? it didnt felt forced to me at all i enjoyed and wanted that since i was a kid i remember i was so interested in men and sex but when i grew up these desire got stronger ofc but it feels SO real that everything was forced and i never knew myself that im so scared to get treatment because it keeps telling me that i will discover im a full lesbian when i get tratament like i have nothing against gay people i’m a ally but this is just not the life i ever wanted to me doctor could this be hocd? And your opinion doc, could i ever come back to my old self? like i know you cant know this or predict my future .. if neither i can do that .. but you think i could fell something real for a man again? Jon Hershfield November 1, 2015 at 2:59 pm - Reply “Feeling something real” is contingent on putting an end to the compulsive monitoring and judgment of your feelings. People with HOCD often fear that going to an ocd therapist will make them realize this or that. Getting treatment for the ocd is therefore often the first exposure. Lia October 30, 2015 at 1:52 am - Reply Oh and it’s normal to after a while you still having these thoughts but not be as anxious as you used to be? like i said my brain keeps telling me i’m not straight anymore or that i never was but i’m not as anxious as before… i think i’m more depressed right now like i’m sad all the time and when these thoughts come i just cry and i dont have the energy to fight them anymore nor focus, i really cant focus to much on my thoughts like before i would always try to answers these doubts but now it’s as i cant remember many things about me (or others people) that would answer my brain’s question, you understand? is just to hard right now because the ocd always has a quick comeback to me like, more and more questions and it just gets me incredible down. Jon Hershfield November 17, 2015 at 5:34 pm - Reply Since, as you pointed out, your ocd always has a comeback to your arguments, it makes th most sense to do CBT therapy and stop arguing with your ocd like it has a valid point in the first place. Lia October 30, 2015 at 2:53 am - Reply I’m so sorry doctor i have so many questions and i hate this but can ocd distorted my memories? like i really dont know if i can trust my memories right now sometimes i feel like it somehow intensify my memories and make it look like it was more than it actually was, you know? like i really dont remember things happening like my brain make it look to be most of the time…. but at the same time and i cant know if that really didn’t happen, you know? it was years ago and i can’t even remember what happened last week…. i feel like it didn’t but i don’t know…. like i never had a problem finding girls pretty, it never worried and that’s what i know for sure, i always found girls pretty but what worries me it the quantity, again i dont know if it actually happened or not but my brain says that i have found a lot of girls pretty maybe more than boys, would this have something with my sexuality? Should porn worry me too? like I was never a big fan of porn, it really does not turn me on but i’d watch sometimes and the girl’s body would be what would make me watch the video sometimes or watching porn without man (not lesbian, never was interested)… like to me it was normal when i used to do it before because after all i would still want to be with a man. Again, so sorry for sending too many questions/comments. Jon Hershfield November 17, 2015 at 5:38 pm - Reply >>>>I’m so sorry doctor i have so many questions and i hate this but can ocd distorted my memories? —All memories are inherently distorted. The second you recall them, you are viewing them through a lens of the present state you are in, not the state you were in when the memory formed. Repeatedly reviewing and analyzing your memories only intensifies these distortions. >>>like i really dont know if i can trust my memories right now sometimes i feel like it somehow intensify my memories and make it look like it was more than it actually was, you know? like i really dont remember things happening like my brain make it look to be most of the time…. but at the same time and i cant know if that really didn’t happen, you know? it was years ago and i can’t even remember what happened last week…. i feel like it didn’t but i don’t know…. like i never had a problem finding girls pretty, it never worried and that’s what i know for sure, i always found girls pretty but what worries me it the quantity, again i dont know if it actually happened or not but my brain says that i have found a lot of girls pretty maybe more than boys, would this have something with my sexuality? —The problem is you are compulsively relying on a review of your memories for reassurance, which is only worsening your obsession with sexual orientation. >>>Should porn worry me too? —“Should” and “worry” rarely belong in the same sentence. >>>like I was never a big fan of porn, it really does not turn me on but i’d watch sometimes and the girl’s body would be what would make me watch the video sometimes or watching porn without man (not lesbian, never was interested)… like to me it was normal when i used to do it before because after all i would still want to be with a man. —Again, this kind of hyper-analysis is a form of reassurance-seeking and it is the glue that keeps your obsession together. Steve October 30, 2015 at 6:38 pm - Reply Hey Jon, how are you? Wanna starts by saying I really appreciate all you articles, especially the ones about HOCD, they really tranquilize me but not for too long of course. And my doubt is.. sometimes I really obsess about a particular thought for days but lately is like the OCD picks a different aspect of my sexuality (I’m straight) and I start obsessing about it but in the next day is something else, you know what I mean? Yesterday was porn, but today is about dirty stories I used to read. It kind demands an explanation to why I didn’t get aroused or if I really liked that and it kinda twists what I felt to look like I didn’t enjoy them… things like this. I was never interested in gay materials, but now it seems like I don’t know that I’m not interested because I never watched or read dirty gay stories. Is it normal to someone with HOCD? Thank you. Jon Hershfield November 17, 2015 at 5:40 pm - Reply I don;t know who I am to dictate what’s normal, but I can tell you that compulsively trying to get certainty about sexual orientation by analyzing past experiences is common in OCD. I would suggest that when your mind “demands an explanation” you have a choice to make and that choice involves either acquiescing to every “demand” or not. Sther January 15, 2016 at 1:41 am - Reply Doctor… I saw in an anterior post that you comment “stop arguing with your OCD like it has a valid point in the first place” what would it mean if my OCD (I don’t know if I can say it anymore) has valid points? At least, they make sense to me. Like my brain came up with a lot of theories and they make sense, I think, and I read a lot of articles about OCD that say OCD fears/thoughts doesn’t make sense… mine does. Sometimes I think I came up with them not to try to understand me since I don’t know who I’m anymore I’ve lost myself and I seem to not be able to find my way back (I’m dealing with this untreated HOCD for 1 year now). And lately, it seems that my OCD and I became one??? like I can’t separate myself from my OCD anymore, can’t distinguish what are my real thoughts or feelings, what I really am or what I really want… I’m just totally confuse. Seems like the worst has happened (changed my sexuality) but I don’t know how to accept.. I mean I am probably used to being straight so I don’t know how to be gay now… sometimes I feels like I will be able to be happy with my change in the future which is nice ( I mean if I really am I going to have to accept at some point) but I don’t want this, I think, sometimes It feels like I’m not totally against it. I just don’t know anymore. Sometimes I feel like I’m overreacting to everything and that I’m not suffering as I think I do or that I’m totally different from others suffers as If I’m having more complex thoughts than them like like I feel that my thought is gayer than theirs (gosh!) and I feel that I’m not as fearful of it has others are, too. And I don’t know if it makes sense but I think I’m not letting myself be or straight or gay??? Like If I have any kind of gay thought I stop them and get anxious and if I get a straight thought I stop it too as if I shouldn’t be enjoying them because they are not real me and I get sad… like I know it all started has HOCD but now I don’t know anymore like a lot changed.. I feel used/numb to this disorder. Has I said I can’t distinguish myself from the HOCD anymore, don’t know what are my compulsions or if I have compulsions… Can I still have treatment now after this disorder changed from what it was in the start? Can it change in the first place? Would the treatment still be effective in me? Like I feel I wouldn’t be able to explain to my doctor what I’m going through now (just like I didn’t in this comment) before I could but now I don’t know anymore. Sorry for the nonsense! Jon Hershfield January 27, 2016 at 7:29 pm - Reply >>>>>I saw in an anterior post that you comment “stop arguing with your OCD like it has a valid point in the first place” what would it mean if my OCD (I don’t know if I can say it anymore) has valid points? —We would have to clearly define “valid point” to assess an appropriate response. If you find yourself engaged in a homosexual act, that might be valid evidence of some homosexual leanings. If you are having thoughts about being gay, I see no reason why the mere presence or absence of a thought could be considered evidence of anything. Thoughts are thoughts. >>>>At least, they make sense to me. Like my brain came up with a lot of theories and they make sense, I think, and I read a lot of articles about OCD that say OCD fears/thoughts doesn’t make sense… mine does. —I think you are being confused by the concept of ego syntonic thinking and ego dystonic thinking. Ego syntonic thoughts fit nicely into the thinker’s world view. Dystonic thoughts are disturbing in part because the thinker believes that they should not be having or struggling with these thoughts. They may make “sense”, as in, I may have a thought that if I jump out of a window, I will die. But this would still be dystonic for me because I do not believe myself to be suicidal. >>>>Sometimes I think I came up with them not to try to understand me since I don’t know who I’m anymore I’ve lost myself and I seem to not be able to find my way back (I’m dealing with this untreated HOCD for 1 year now). And lately, it seems that my OCD and I became one??? like I can’t separate myself from my OCD anymore, can’t distinguish what are my real thoughts or feelings, what I really am or what I really want… —Well, presuming you have OCD, this means you have a deficit in your tolerance for uncertainty. So when you ask what you “really” think or feel, you are rarely satisfied by the answer. You use compulsions as strategies for getting certainty, but they don’t work. >>>>I’m just totally confuse. Seems like the worst has happened (changed my sexuality) but I don’t know how to accept.. I mean I am probably used to being straight so I don’t know how to be gay now… sometimes I feels like I will be able to be happy with my change in the future which is nice ( I mean if I really am I going to have to accept at some point) but I don’t want this, I think, sometimes It feels like I’m not totally against it. I just don’t know anymore. —Being for it or against it is not the issue. You feel uncertain about it, so you are insisting on finding an answer one way or the other instead of guessing and making behavioral choices you think might be in line with your values. >>>>>Sometimes I feel like I’m overreacting to everything and that I’m not suffering as I think I do or that I’m totally different from others suffers as If I’m having more complex thoughts than them like like I feel that my thought is gayer than theirs (gosh!) and I feel that I’m not as fearful of it has others are, too. And I don’t know if it makes sense but I think I’m not letting myself be or straight or gay??? Like If I have any kind of gay thought I stop them and get anxious and if I get a straight thought I stop it too as if I shouldn’t be enjoying them because they are not real me and I get sad… like I know it all started has HOCD but now I don’t know anymore like a lot changed.. I feel used/numb to this disorder. —Sounds like you are engaging in a lot of mental rituals, a common feature of OCD. >>>>Has I said I can’t distinguish myself from the HOCD anymore, don’t know what are my compulsions or if I have compulsions… Can I still have treatment now after this disorder changed from what it was in the start? Can it change in the first place? Would the treatment still be effective in me? Like I feel I wouldn’t be able to explain to my doctor what I’m going through now (just like I didn’t in this comment) before I could but now I don’t know anymore. Sorry for the nonsense! —Not nonsense. You’re just frustrated and it sounds like you’re afraid you won’t be able to get help. My recommendation is for you to seek out an evaluation from an OCD specialist and let them advise you on the appropriate treatment. The alternative is to continue trying to get certainty by thinking harder, which has predictably unsatisfying results. Lukas Leao January 18, 2016 at 1:10 am - Reply wow i have been struggling with my sexuality for a few months now and i didn’t know why… after seeing a gay picture i started to think what if i am gay and doubting my sexuality and got really depressed because of it and i didn’t understand because everything happened so out of the blue and nothing give me peace of mind but reading this and the others articles and i see i can relate with almost everything about hocd… is like you are writing about me and what i am suffering which is a surprise since i didn’t know i could have ocd or that this could be a thing… but sir, even though i am a bit relieved i am still afraid… after these months i think that i started believing these thoughts and somehow become gay … you know how they say ‘you are what you think/believe’ and i am scared because i feel like my brain are gay but i am not but i cant separate anymore … before i could say ‘no i am not’ or ‘no i dont want it’ but now i cant anymore is more like ‘how can i know i dont want it’… is like i have to discover myself all over again because when it comes to sex and relationship i dont seem to know what i want anymore or what are my real feelings and desires. I saw that you say we cant have certainty and we have to live to see but after all this doubts and questioning i am having trouble believing i can and thats my problem i really dont believe anymore and i want to but whatever my mind comes up with i accept it… if i really have hocd then i let it win me. just like today i was scrolling on a social media and saw a quote like ‘i am glad things didn’t work out the way i wanted’ and the thought of me loving a same sex person come up to my mind and i freaked… overall i feel better than when it all started but to be honest i feel like i am used to it, and dont think i do much compulsions is just the thoughts that never stops. what really confuses me is that i believe my mind and think i am gay but everytime something happens as to confirm it i cry… not even believing it bring me peace of mind. i saw that treatment needs to bring a lot of anxiety and work with spikes i also dont know if i am as anxious as before when something spikes me i end up crying and agreeing with my mind and being honest i dont even know what going on on my mind anymore so i was thinking treatment would not work with me but since you are the specialist i wanted your opinion… do you think with the help of a specialist i could understant whats going on and get treatment? even if i am not as anxious (i think) as before? my spikes make more sad than anxious. Jon Hershfield January 27, 2016 at 7:37 pm - Reply >>>>>wow i have been struggling with my sexuality for a few months now and i didn’t know why… after seeing a gay picture i started to think what if i am gay and doubting my sexuality and got really depressed because of it and i didn’t understand because everything happened so out of the blue and nothing give me peace of mind but reading this and the others articles and i see i can relate with almost everything about hocd… is like you are writing about me and what i am suffering which is a surprise since i didn’t know i could have ocd or that this could be a thing… —Glad it was helpful. >>>>but sir, even though i am a bit relieved i am still afraid… after these months i think that i started believing these thoughts and somehow become gay … you know how they say ‘you are what you think/believe’ “They” say a lot of things. People form beliefs based on behavior. So really you are what you do, which leads you to believe. If you spend a lot of time reassuring yourself about something, you are likely to believe that there are doubts about that thing. If you spend a lot of time handwashing, you are likely to believe that you are prone to being dirty. If you are responding to gay thoughts in such a manner that suggests they are threatening to you, you are likely to be a person afraid of being gay. >>>>and i am scared because i feel like my brain are gay but i am not but i cant separate anymore … before i could say ‘no i am not’ or ‘no i dont want it’ but now i cant anymore is more like ‘how can i know i dont want it’… is like i have to discover myself all over again because when it comes to sex and relationship i dont seem to know what i want anymore or what are my real feelings and desires. —Rather than trying to catch the elusive “real” feelings, you are better off making a guess and choosing a behavior that supports that guess. >>>I saw that you say we cant have certainty and we have to live to see but after all this doubts and questioning i am having trouble believing i can and thats my problem i really dont believe anymore and i want to but whatever my mind comes up with i accept it… if i really have hocd then i let it win me. just like today i was scrolling on a social media and saw a quote like ‘i am glad things didn’t work out the way i wanted’ and the thought of me loving a same sex person come up to my mind and i freaked… overall i feel better than when it all started but to be honest i feel like i am used to it, and dont think i do much compulsions is just the thoughts that never stops. what really confuses me is that i believe my mind and think i am gay but everytime something happens as to confirm it i cry… not even believing it bring me peace of mind. —It sounds to me like you are doing a lot of mental compulsions aimed at proving your sexual orientation. otherwise you would not be treating the triggering thoughts as particularly interesting, certainly not interesting enough to reduce you to tears. >>>>i saw that treatment needs to bring a lot of anxiety and work with spikes i also dont know if i am as anxious as before when something spikes me i end up crying and agreeing with my mind and being honest i dont even know what going on on my mind anymore so i was thinking treatment would not work with me but since you are the specialist i wanted your opinion… do you think with the help of a specialist i could understant whats going on and get treatment? even if i am not as anxious (i think) as before? my spikes make more sad than anxious. —I’m not in a position to assess you from a blog comment or make predictions about your prognosis, but I think getting an evaluation from an ocd specialist therapist would be the first best place to start. Cassie February 5, 2016 at 5:39 pm - Reply Hello, I feel quite lucky to have found this site. Please forgive my English, but I will try to write in the best way that I can. I am 32 years old and it all started last year while watching a TV series with my hubby. There were lesbian scenes -which is something we are all familiar with, I believe- and suddenly I became very upset. I was aroused which I did not think at the time that it was important as much as the fact that these images were “wrong for my ethics”. Which is ridiculous, I ‘ve had gay friends all my life and lesbians as well. When I overcame the fact that my ethics were for a brief moment distorted, I started thinking about the arousal. Then I started thinking over and over the fact that my uncle came out of the closet when I was around 18 and he was in his mid thirties. Mind, I live in a country were homosexual ed is evolving the past 2 years. It has been a very bad thing for someone to be gay or lesbian. Which I fought for many years as a student participating in the few gay parades or supporting friends of mine that have been ostracized from other friends. Anyway I was not surprised for my uncle because I knew since I was 9 and it was our untold secret. But then I had the insane thought that maybe mid thirties is the age when people realize their full nature and act on it. I felt like I was him. And there came the panic attacks, the social anxiety, the depression and the fact that I was obsessing to find out in every possible way if I was a lesbian -by imagining having sex with my friends, which made me sick, and then having sex with actual lesbians, which made kind of sense, but still, made me sick. So I went to a therapist [in my country HOCD is not something people -and I believe therapists are familiar with] and from the first visit everything went back to normal. I now think that I need it to get back to normal and that’s why it did. I talked a lot to my husband who says that I am generally obsessing over things -such as my weight [I can get literally panicked if something does not fit, I’ve been anorexic and after some years I’ve been bulimic. He says I am obsessing over the cleanliness of our house -something that when we first started living together 4 years ago, I didn’t care at all. I also obsess according to him with my favorite shows or stars or books. So I started to believe that he’s right. And talked to my therapist again and he did confirm that I have some obsessions but not OCD. Anyways, that thing went away for a couple of months and it started just like that again the past month. Sometimes I feel like I can tell my brain to shut up, and it does so I am calm and normal, but there are days, like today, that I can’t stop having images of female genitalia and obsess over to whether I am attracted to them or not. The problem is that I have had so many mental images of these, the past month that it’s something totally indifferent. But the fear remains. And all I want is to overcome this situation and be happy and cheery again. One last thing, which is bad for myself but I believe it is useful info. A couple of months ago -when HOCD was gone from my life- I cheated on my husband. With a guy that I had intense feelings for many years. We did it once and that was it. But unfortunately my husband found out and now we have some sex issues, as to we do not have sex the last couple of months because he feels uncomfortable yet, although he has forgiven me. And I feel the need to have sex and then the crazy thoughts begin and it’s all a big huge loop in my head. Is there a book or something to help me? Thank you for your time and patience. Jon Hershfield February 20, 2016 at 4:58 pm - Reply >>>>Anyway I was not surprised for my uncle because I knew since I was 9 and it was our untold secret. But then I had the insane thought that maybe mid thirties is the age when people realize their full nature and act on it. I felt like I was him. —You may have told yourself that you felt like him, but you also acknowledge that it is unknown how he felt. You knew since you were 9. When did he know? You presume he “knew” when he decided to share it with the outside world in his 30s, but this is inconsistent with how people usually deal with personal information that is difficult to disclose. In other words, him “realizing his full nature” is a story you tell yourself about his experience, but it is not known if that is his actual experience. >>>>And there came the panic attacks, the social anxiety, the depression and the fact that I was obsessing to find out in every possible way if I was a lesbian -by imagining having sex with my friends, which made me sick, and then having sex with actual lesbians, which made kind of sense, but still, made me sick. So I went to a therapist [in my country HOCD is not something people -and I believe therapists are familiar with] and from the first visit everything went back to normal. I now think that I need it to get back to normal and that’s why it did. I talked a lot to my husband who says that I am generally obsessing over things -such as my weight [I can get literally panicked if something does not fit, I’ve been anorexic and after some years I’ve been bulimic. He says I am obsessing over the cleanliness of our house -something that when we first started living together 4 years ago, I didn’t care at all. I also obsess according to him with my favorite shows or stars or books. So I started to believe that he’s right. And talked to my therapist again and he did confirm that I have some obsessions but not OCD. —OCD is not difficult to diagnose. It involves obsessions, which are unwanted intrusive thoughts, which you say you have. It involves compulsions, which are physical OR mental behaviors designed to neutralize discomfort associated with unwanted thoughts, which you do. The obsessions and compulsions must impact your daily life and the rituals should take over an hour of each day to be considered clinical. Your therapist obviously has more information about you than I do to formulate an actual diagnosis. I am just going off of what you’ve written, which sounds like OCD to me. >>>>Anyways, that thing went away for a couple of months and it started just like that again the past month. Sometimes I feel like I can tell my brain to shut up, and it does so I am calm and normal, but there are days, like today, that I can’t stop having images of female genitalia and obsess over to whether I am attracted to them or not. —These are two separate issues. You can’t stop having images pop into your head, this is true. But you CAN choose not to analyze whether you are attracted to them or not. >>>>The problem is that I have had so many mental images of these, the past month that it’s something totally indifferent. But the fear remains. And all I want is to overcome this situation and be happy and cheery again. —This is where mindfulness and the practice of making space for feelings without judgment can be helpful. >>>>One last thing, which is bad for myself but I believe it is useful info. A couple of months ago -when HOCD was gone from my life- I cheated on my husband. With a guy that I had intense feelings for many years. We did it once and that was it. But unfortunately my husband found out and now we have some sex issues, as to we do not have sex the last couple of months because he feels uncomfortable yet, although he has forgiven me. And I feel the need to have sex and then the crazy thoughts begin and it’s all a big huge loop in my head. Is there a book or something to help me? —There are books out there about healing after an affair or “cheating” event. This is not my area of expertise, but I think finding one of those books and perhaps getting couples counseling to process what happened would be useful for your marriage. As for books that cover HOCD, the ones that come to mind are The Mindfulness Workbook for OCD, Freedom From Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, and Imp of the Mind. Cassie March 19, 2016 at 6:43 pm - Reply Thank you so much. I hope I’ll be able to thank you personally one day! 🙂 Frank February 23, 2016 at 9:25 pm - Reply Hello dr. Thank you so much for sharing these important informations I am a 28 year old male, suffered from many types of ocd in my life (worst one is yet to be hocd and in my country hocd is not an area of expertise and hard to get professional help) and I would like to know about things below more clearly: – My hocd began after excessive use of porn. I gradually lost interest in women and found out i have created an obsession towards males. I started a relationship with a beautiful girl whom i love, but because of the desensitization, i have Ed problems which fueled my Hocd really bad. After i have quit all kinds of porn and with the help of Ed medication i started to have intercourse, but when the Hocd thoughts hit me, i lose all interest. What i am asking here, is it possible that excessive porn usage is the problem with my nearly “gay” feelings to be created out of nowhere? If that is so, do i need to stay away from gay porn if am to exercise Erp? 2- this question might seem like seeking reassurance, but i need some motivation for Erp. Do many of your Hocd patients get better with the help of Erp? Do you have succes rate which you may regard as “great”? 3- A recent problem i face is also regarding prostate stimulation. Internet comments nearly always states that it is the best orgasm a male can ever have. This triggered me into thinking that normal sex is not fun, just” settling” for less. There was this hetero guy who cant havie normal sex because of the pleasure he felt through anal Stimulation. This also triggered my Hocd, and some other obsession that even if i my girlfriend can stimulate me, normal sex wont be pleasurable. I tried giving myself a prostate massage, even if i felt some tingling, i did not feel any intense feeling to orgasm. But i want to check if the orgasm is really better. Do you think this is a compulsion i should avoid? I am also doing erp exercises in which i imagine myself getting anal sex from a guy,it is really discomforting but i try to stay in the fear. Is it required also some erp exercise for normal sex getting really dull? 4- my other question is that if i imagine that i fully accept being gay and my loved ones are not affected in any way, sometimes i suddenlt realize that i feel no connection to men.this relaxation is a form of compulsion i believe and i try to avoid it. But some other times, especially when i imagine having sex with a men while doing erp, if i also imagine that none of my loved ones are affected by this act and me being gay, my discomfort diminishes and it fuels the idea that i am in denial and i feel fear only for my loved ones, meaning that they are ok, i am also ok. This suddenly spikes me up like a proof that i was always gay. Is it what they call a backdoor spike? Is it normal to have such moments while dealing with hocd? -my final question is aside from erp exercises, do you recomment ssri medication? I used cipralex for a while but i am not sure if it is a good idea while i am already having ed problems. Thank you so much for your support. Keep doing what you are doing for the community. Jon Hershfield February 25, 2016 at 6:39 pm - Reply >>>>>Hello dr. Thank you so much for sharing these important informations I am a 28 year old male, suffered from many types of ocd in my life (worst one is yet to be hocd and in my country hocd is not an area of expertise and hard to get professional help) and I would like to know about things below more clearly: – My hocd began after excessive use of porn. I gradually lost interest in women and found out i have created an obsession towards males. I started a relationship with a beautiful girl whom i love, but because of the desensitization, i have Ed problems which fueled my Hocd really bad. After i have quit all kinds of porn and with the help of Ed medication i started to have intercourse, but when the Hocd thoughts hit me, i lose all interest. What i am asking here, is it possible that excessive porn usage is the problem with my nearly “gay” feelings to be created out of nowhere? If that is so, do i need to stay away from gay porn if am to exercise Erp? —The interplay between the effects of excessive pornography use, erectile dysfunction, the drive for alternative forms of stimulation, orientation confusion, and obsessive compulsive fear of being gay is not fully understood and rather complex. In short, I would think you are right, that continued use of pornography (gay or otherwise) would perpetuate performance problems and exacerbate obsessions. There are numerous exposures that can be done to your fear of being gay that do not involve stimulation or pornography. 2- this question might seem like seeking reassurance, but i need some motivation for Erp. Do many of your Hocd patients get better with the help of Erp? Do you have succes rate which you may regard as “great”? —My success rate, which seems good to me, is not an indicator of how well you would do with your therapist. The issue is whether you are accurately identifying and resisting compulsions and consistently practicing a willingness to accept uncertainty. 3- A recent problem i face is also regarding prostate stimulation. Internet comments nearly always states that it is the best orgasm a male can ever have. This triggered me into thinking that normal sex is not fun, just” settling” for less. There was this hetero guy who cant havie normal sex because of the pleasure he felt through anal Stimulation. This also triggered my Hocd, and some other obsession that even if i my girlfriend can stimulate me, normal sex wont be pleasurable. I tried giving myself a prostate massage, even if i felt some tingling, i did not feel any intense feeling to orgasm. But i want to check if the orgasm is really better. Do you think this is a compulsion i should avoid? I am also doing erp exercises in which i imagine myself getting anal sex from a guy,it is really discomforting but i try to stay in the fear. Is it required also some erp exercise for normal sex getting really dull? —I think you need to look at your obsessive concern with homosexuality and your obsessive relationship to stimulation as somewhat separate issues. The pornography obsession appears to be the bigger issue driving the other one. I’m also not clear what “normal” sex means, which is presumably different for different people and should be based on the relationship you are in, not just ideas about what is the “best” orgasm. 4- my other question is that if i imagine that i fully accept being gay and my loved ones are not affected in any way, sometimes i suddenlt realize that i feel no connection to men.this relaxation is a form of compulsion i believe and i try to avoid it. But some other times, especially when i imagine having sex with a men while doing erp, if i also imagine that none of my loved ones are affected by this act and me being gay, my discomfort diminishes and it fuels the idea that i am in denial and i feel fear only for my loved ones, meaning that they are ok, i am also ok. This suddenly spikes me up like a proof that i was always gay. Is it what they call a backdoor spike? Is it normal to have such moments while dealing with hocd? —It;s not unusual. Given your problem with pornography use, I would not recommend doing any ERP that involves imagining sexual situations. The stimulation of (any) sexual thinking is having an effect on your brain that probably trumps whatever benefits you would have from ERP. I would look for other ways to do exposure that do not involve explicit sexual images or fantasies. For example, you might write a script about coping with a life that does not involve relationships with women and what things would look like if you identified as gay and that was your lifestyle. >>>-my final question is aside from erp exercises, do you recomment ssri medication? I used cipralex for a while but i am not sure if it is a good idea while i am already having ed problems. —Your concern about ssri’s and ED are reasonable, but you need to talk to a psychiatrist about this. It is not clear if sexual performance is the thing you need to be most concerned with at this time. Whether you want to take meds or not, a comprehensive psychiatric evaluation is probably a good idea. Frank February 26, 2016 at 4:48 am - Reply Thanks jon for the reply. Your thoughts are really appreciated. Could you point me into right direction with some Erp examples? If i want to do a recording to listen over and over, what should be in it? And by sticking with erp, how long do you think i can see some results? This situation is so disturbing i want to feel a little bit better at the least. Jon Hershfield February 26, 2016 at 1:22 pm - Reply This is not something I can easily reply to in a blog comment as you are essentially asking for a treatment plan. You could work it out with an OCD therapist, or you could follow the guidelines from an OCD workbook for effective imaginal ERP scripts. At a guess the script would have something to say about the idea that you are in gay denial, may have broken yourself sexually from heterosexual satisfaction, and may have to cope with feeling permanently disconnected from your sexual identity. Frank March 14, 2016 at 11:02 am Hi again Jon, I have been trying on myself some self treatment like i said, and it has been going well. I am trying to accept that it is not possible and will never be possible to surely know my sexual orientation. I am trying to stop all kinds of checking, and it really was working wonders for some time. I started to sleep well, eat well, focus on something other than finding my true orientation. Hell, even my attraction to the same sex has returned to some degree, and it was possible to have intercourse with my significant other without any ED medication. But I think now my OCD is developing a new gun. Before I think I only had purely sexual thoughts about the same sex. Now after the acceptance treatment i am trying, i suddenly felt a spike when seeing a same sex friend which i get along well, a new thought popped in my head “would i want to live with him” , ” would i be jealous of him” etc. What i mean is not sexual, but emotional responses i have developed. These emotional responses are something new to me, and they are giving me hell right now. It feels like a real proof for my denial, so my belief in self therapy is damaged, and now i feel really bad again. What i am asking for you is this: Is it possible for HOCD to distort my thinking so that I feel not sexual responses, but also emotional? I am not seeking reassurance meaning that it is only because of HOCD; I know they also might be because i am gay, But if it is something that HOCD might produce, then I may add it to the list of “uncertainities”, instead of “that fact that I am gay”. I really want to seek professional help like you said, but this field is not common where i live. This is why I am trying to reach you through this blog. Jon Hershfield March 16, 2016 at 1:45 am >>>>Hi again Jon, I have been trying on myself some self treatment like i said, and it has been going well. I am trying to accept that it is not possible and will never be possible to surely know my sexual orientation. I am trying to stop all kinds of checking, and it really was working wonders for some time. I started to sleep well, eat well, focus on something other than finding my true orientation. Hell, even my attraction to the same sex has returned to some degree, and it was possible to have intercourse with my significant other without any ED medication. —Marvelous news! Well done. I know it can’t have been easy to stick to your guns and resist compulsions. >>>>But I think now my OCD is developing a new gun. —There are no new obsessions. Just different words for the same thing. >>>Before I think I only had purely sexual thoughts about the same sex. Now after the acceptance treatment i am trying, i suddenly felt a spike when seeing a same sex friend which i get along well, a new thought popped in my head “would i want to live with him” , ” would i be jealous of him” etc. What i mean is not sexual, but emotional responses i have developed. These emotional responses are something new to me, and they are giving me hell right now. It feels like a real proof for my denial, so my belief in self therapy is damaged, and now i feel really bad again. —You’re being baited by the OCD. Don’t take the bait. These are more thoughts. Perhaps you could fall madly in love with a man. Or a brown paper bag. Perhaps any number of things. You seem to feel more connected to your values now than before. Don’t quit now. Let the thoughts do what they may, commit to uncertainty, and keep doing what is clearly working. >>>What i am asking for you is this: Is it possible for HOCD to distort my thinking so that I feel not sexual responses, but also emotional? I am not seeking reassurance meaning that it is only because of HOCD; I know they also might be because i am gay, But if it is something that HOCD might produce, then I may add it to the list of “uncertainities”, instead of “that fact that I am gay”. —I would add it to the list, yes. You seem to be headed in the right direction. Keep at it. Theo April 5, 2016 at 7:18 am - Reply Help please doctor, I have dug myself into a deep hole of confusion due to my mental testing scenarios. I used to have such wonderful and pleasant thought of women and then when my testing first started I’d force myself to have a nice thought about a girl then force myself to have a gay thought about a guy and make sure I liked the straight thought and didn’t like the gay thought. Eventually, my brain started involuntarily had gay thoughts when I was trying to have a straight thought. This then carried over into masturbation and now whenever I try to masturbate to something hetero I always have to switch over to something homosexual. Now the hetero thoughts don’t bring me nearly as much pleasure as they used to and even more frightening is that the gay thoughts don’t bother me like the used to. I used to gag at the sight of something gay, but now it gives me basically no reaction. The fact that I’ve conditioned my brain to masturbate to gay thoughts and images does’t even bother me as much as I think it should. I fear that I may even like it which is so depressing. I can’t tell if I want to masturbate to these things or if I’m forcing myself to do it or maybe even I’m forcing myself to do it because some secret part of me wants to. I hate this so much I want it to stop so badly. I want to go back to the days when I loved having heterosexual thoughts but I fear those days are behind me. I also get this strange feeling when looking at gay things and I have no idea how to interpret what those things mean. I look at these gay things and literally have no clue if I like it or not or if I’m just to scared to admit to myself that I like it. One thing that used to really bother me is that I got an erection when I saw another penis but that doesn’t even happen much anymore and I think it was due to a mixture of my insecurities and a long history of porn usage. But now my main concern is like I said before I feel something when looking at gay images but I have no idea what that something means or is. For all I know it could be just major anxiety/fear that I am going to feel arousal while looking at this image or it could be real arousal. Bottom line is if you can teach me a way to just go back and be happy masturbating to heterosexual things and not have these intrusive thoughts/urges to look at gay things that would be greatly appreciated. I think that I have HOCD because I’ve had another form of OCD in the past and I’ve always had major anxiety issues and I’d always fear that the most horrible outcome is going to come true in all bad situations and I’ve had many many obsessive thoughts mostly about my own body and I’ve also had fears of having fatal illness over small things like if I got a headache I’d think it’s a brain tumor. Jon Hershfield April 7, 2016 at 8:48 pm - Reply There are a few things that stand out here. One is you seem to have an obsessive relationship to pornography and masturbation, which makes it an easy target for intrusive thoughts. If your goal is to enjoy heterosexual masturbation in the absence of homosexual intrusions, then this is likely to be a trap that will make things worse. I would work first on establishing a healthier relationship to porn and masturbation overall. The other thing that is noteworthy is you seem to have an assumption that straight people are supposed to have an aversive reaction to gay thoughts. I would argue that people have all kinds of reactions and presupposing the one right reaction is just a way to let OCD take over. You say the idea that you might be turned on by gay thoughts is depressing, but it’s unclear what specifically is depressing about getting off to something besides a story you are telling yourself about what you think is supposed to happen. Anyway, my recommendation is to stop trying to control what thoughts you have and just engage in whatever behaviors you think are probably in line with your values, and also possibly seek professional input on how to approach your relationship with porn in a more healthy way. Theo April 7, 2016 at 11:11 pm - Reply Thank you for your reply doctor. I am not asking for a full diagnosis or anything, but in your professional opinion, does this sound like HOCD? Jon Hershfield April 8, 2016 at 1:58 pm - Reply Sounds like OCD and some kind of unhealthy relationship to pornography and masturbation. You have obsessions, you have compulsions, and you seem to find the time devoted to these to be impairing, so that is the definition of OCD. Still, I recommend seeking an actual evaluation from a professional if you can before engaging in any therapeutic approaches on your own. bel April 15, 2016 at 9:24 pm - Reply hello, I don’t know if this has been asked before since I didn’t have time to go through all the comments. I am very worried at the moment about masturbating to intrusive thoughts. I checked several times to see if those thoughts would turn me on and I even orgasmed. Afterwards, I felt very anxios because I don’t know if that is part of the hocd or if it means that I am lesbian or bisexual. What I mean is, can a hocd sufferer masturbate to intrusive thoughts?? Jon Hershfield April 17, 2016 at 2:53 am - Reply In a free society, people can masturbate to whatever they want so long as it isn’t infringing on the rights of anyone else. What seems to b the problem here, as you describe it, is that you are compulsively checking because you think it will produce certainty and you have a belief that being turned on by something defines your sexual orientation. These are both false notions. All this being said, people often find intrusive thoughts activating and activation can be stimulating and stimulation makes for good masturbation. My recommendation is not to try to figure it out. bel April 17, 2016 at 8:18 am - Reply thank you so much for your reply, so is this something like the groinal response but “Masturbation Edition”? Jon Hershfield April 25, 2016 at 11:54 am - Reply Sure. You are overthinking your sensations. Ally April 21, 2016 at 6:07 pm - Reply In your experience, does it ever happen that people with this theme to eventually reach a point where they’ve pretty much accepted that they’re gay and are just really depressed about it? Because I feel like that’s where I am at this point. I know I have OCD and I know I struggle with this theme in particular, but I also can no longer see how I could possibly be anything but a lesbian. I suppose I’m still doing a lot of ruminating on it, so there’s a part of me that’s still looking for certainty, but the main thing I feel now is despair rather than anxiety. So, a little background. I’m 27, and I’ve had OCD since I was in my early teens. I’ve had many themes over the years, but this one keeps coming back and is particularly intense this go-round. I’ve done pretty much everything you’re not supposed to do (scrutinizing past relationships, comparing my experiences to those of LGBT individuals, researching homosexuality), and it’s all massively backfired, as I now have a long list of evidence re: the possibility that I’m a lesbian. For example: – Most of my infatuations have been with men who weren’t available in some way (celebrities, teachers, etc.), which makes me wonder whether I’d actually enjoy being with them if given the opportunity. – Relatedly, I’ve been in happy-ish relationships with men in the past, but I have a lot of misgivings about actually moving in with a guy and getting married. It makes me feel panicky and trapped. I used to assume that that was because I have some trust and boundary issues (basically, I don’t speak up for myself in relationships, and I’m afraid I’ll get into a situation where I’m constantly acting to please someone else). But then I read several stories about lesbian women saying that they have some degree of attraction to men but no desire to act on it, and it just sounded too familiar. – To be blunt, there are a lot of men I’m actively turned off by–the thought of being with them physically or romantically is quite repellent to me. By contrast, I don’t really feel that way about any women; it’s not that I actively desire to be with them, but more that the thought of it doesn’t disgust me. Aesthetically, of course, I recognize that some women are more attractive than others, but I feel kind of uniformly neutral toward the idea of being with a woman. This has always been in the back of my mind and it didn’t bother me in the past, but then one day it occurred to me that there might be more women than men that I’d “prefer” to have sex with (in the sense of not being turned off by it), and that seemed like pretty much the definition of being a lesbian. – In the past, I’ve fantasized about gay (male) sex. I know many straight men fantasize about two women together, but I feel like the reverse is really abnormal. And when I found out that many lesbians apparently watch gay porn, I just about had a panic attack. – This will sound insane, but I apparently have the “lesbian finger ratio”–my ring finger is a bit longer than my index finger–which makes it harder for me to write off any of the other points, because I feel like I must be biologically programmed to have lesbian tendencies. There’s more, of course, but those are the main points. Anyway, I know that I made a huge mistake by spending so much time checking, researching, etc., but now I’m at a point where I really don’t know what to do. I’ve stopped most of the compulsions, but I can’t unlearn the information, and like I said, I’m just in despair about it. I’ve even tried doing a bit of CBT/ERP on my own (my insurance won’t cover therapy until I meet my deductible, and I can’t afford it independently), but I feel like I’m either doing it incorrectly or that there must actually be something to my worries, because it hasn’t so much lessened the anxiety as it has made me more depressed (that is, more certain that my fears are correct). Do you have any ideas about what else I might try doing? My insurance does cover medication, so I’ve begun a new SSRI, but it hasn’t helped much yet, and I’m beginning to feel desperate. It sounds insane, because I was never raised to believe that homosexuality was wrong (and don’t believe that it is wrong now), but when I think that I personally must be a lesbian I just can’t cope with how bleak the future feels. Ally April 21, 2016 at 8:16 pm - Reply It belatedly occurred to me I should probably mention a bit more about the ERP I did, in case I was going wrong somewhere/misunderstanding what I ought to be doing. I had decided to try the more “intense” form of ERP where you’re not just accepting the thoughts but actively agreeing with them. So one thing that was recommended, for instance, was writing or repeating the thought over and over until my anxiety levels started to drop. What I found, though, was that while my feelings of panic would decrease, I’d end up simply feeling numb and miserable. Is this a normal thing that I should just push through, or am I doing something wrong? Jon Hershfield April 25, 2016 at 1:00 pm - Reply It is normal to have this experience, but that doesn’t mean it is the best intervention for you to be doing. There are multiple ways to approach ERP and only one of them is the type of “flooding” scripting that you are describing. I think, given your difficulty with uncertainty acceptance, a flooding script is less likely to be effective (at more than just making you numb or unhappy) than other forms of ERP. One thing you could try is to write a narrative describing what it is you may have to accept uncertainty-wise and what consequences accepting that uncertainty COULD entail that you would have to learn to cope with somehow. Above all, mindfulness approaches to recognizing when you are engaging in mental rituals would be useful so you could label and abandon these compulsions. Ally April 25, 2016 at 9:11 pm - Reply Okay, thanks–I think I understand. I had bought a workbook on ERP, but there were so many different suggestions about what to try that I wasn’t quite sure where to begin. So just to make sure I’m understanding–instead of doing imaginal exposures focused on the fear itself (i.e. what could happen if I were a lesbian), I might try doing exposures focused on the uncertainty (i.e.what could happen if I were uncertain about my sexual orientation)? I’ll also definitely look into mindfulness, since that’s something I haven’t tried before. Thanks again! Jon Hershfield April 26, 2016 at 6:58 pm I think that sounds like a smart approach. Jon Hershfield April 25, 2016 at 12:27 pm - Reply >>>>In your experience, does it ever happen that people with this theme to eventually reach a point where they’ve pretty much accepted that they’re gay and are just really depressed about it? Because I feel like that’s where I am at this point. —In my experience, some people who continue to struggle to resist compulsions, or who are not properly treated, or both, sometimes begin trying to convince themselves they are gay as an attempt to avoid having to cope with uncertainty. This is another compulsion and fundamentally different from accepting some kind of identity curse. >>>>I know I have OCD and I know I struggle with this theme in particular, but I also can no longer see how I could possibly be anything but a lesbian. —Then one would expect happiness to follow. >>>>I suppose I’m still doing a lot of ruminating on it, so there’s a part of me that’s still looking for certainty, but the main thing I feel now is despair rather than anxiety. —Despair is what compulsive handwashers feel when they get to a point that they’re using scalding water and bleach on cracked hands and still don’t feel clean. >>>>So, a little background. I’m 27, and I’ve had OCD since I was in my early teens. I’ve had many themes over the years, but this one keeps coming back and is particularly intense this go-round. I’ve done pretty much everything you’re not supposed to do (scrutinizing past relationships, comparing my experiences to those of LGBT individuals, researching homosexuality), and it’s all massively backfired, as I now have a long list of evidence re: the possibility that I’m a lesbian. —“Evidence” collected during the course of a compulsion is not evidence. >>>For example: – Most of my infatuations have been with men who weren’t available in some way (celebrities, teachers, etc.), which makes me wonder whether I’d actually enjoy being with them if given the opportunity. – Relatedly, I’ve been in happy-ish relationships with men in the past, but I have a lot of misgivings about actually moving in with a guy and getting married. It makes me feel panicky and trapped. I used to assume that that was because I have some trust and boundary issues (basically, I don’t speak up for myself in relationships, and I’m afraid I’ll get into a situation where I’m constantly acting to please someone else). But then I read several stories about lesbian women saying that they have some degree of attraction to men but no desire to act on it, and it just sounded too familiar. – To be blunt, there are a lot of men I’m actively turned off by–the thought of being with them physically or romantically is quite repellent to me. By contrast, I don’t really feel that way about any women; it’s not that I actively desire to be with them, but more that the thought of it doesn’t disgust me. Aesthetically, of course, I recognize that some women are more attractive than others, but I feel kind of uniformly neutral toward the idea of being with a woman. This has always been in the back of my mind and it didn’t bother me in the past, but then one day it occurred to me that there might be more women than men that I’d “prefer” to have sex with (in the sense of not being turned off by it), and that seemed like pretty much the definition of being a lesbian. —This all sounds normal. You may have some obsessions about the quality or safety of relationships and some related trust issues, but this doesn’t say much of anything about sexual orientation. >>>>>– In the past, I’ve fantasized about gay (male) sex. I know many straight men fantasize about two women together, but I feel like the reverse is really abnormal. And when I found out that many lesbians apparently watch gay porn, I just about had a panic attack. ——Lesbians also breathe oxygen. I wouldn’t put too much stock into fantasies. They are ideas, not daggers. >>>>– This will sound insane, but I apparently have the “lesbian finger ratio”–my ring finger is a bit longer than my index finger–which makes it harder for me to write off any of the other points, because I feel like I must be biologically programmed to have lesbian tendencies. —Yes, it sounds like what you said it would sound like. There is supposedly some correlation between testosterone in fetal development and finger ratios, which some have suggested also correlates with traditional “male” gender qualities vs. traditional “female” gender qualities. No scientific argument I have seen draws a meaningful correlation between this and sexual orientation. >>>>There’s more, of course, but those are the main points. —If the “more” is your insatiable desire for gay sex and the relentless pursuit of meaningful romantic relationships with women that feels like a natural home for you, then you may have something. >>>>Anyway, I know that I made a huge mistake by spending so much time checking, researching, etc., but now I’m at a point where I really don’t know what to do. I’ve stopped most of the compulsions, but I can’t unlearn the information, and like I said, I’m just in despair about it. I’ve even tried doing a bit of CBT/ERP on my own (my insurance won’t cover therapy until I meet my deductible, and I can’t afford it independently), but I feel like I’m either doing it incorrectly or that there must actually be something to my worries, because it hasn’t so much lessened the anxiety as it has made me more depressed (that is, more certain that my fears are correct). —It’s unclear what “a bit of CBT/ERP” means. CBT is a psychotherapeutic process that takes months of consistent work. >>>>Do you have any ideas about what else I might try doing? My insurance does cover medication, so I’ve begun a new SSRI, but it hasn’t helped much yet, and I’m beginning to feel desperate. —Medication can help reduce the intensity of OCD symptoms, but no pill can teach you a skill. >>>>It sounds insane, because I was never raised to believe that homosexuality was wrong (and don’t believe that it is wrong now), but when I think that I personally must be a lesbian I just can’t cope with how bleak the future feels. —Sorry you are in such an unhappy place. If you cannot afford or access an OCD specialist, I would try a workbook-style approach. The Mindfulness Workbook for OCD has some useful techniques and information on this subject. Jonathan Grayson’s Freedom from Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is also an excellent workbook for this issue. Davep May 2, 2016 at 4:29 pm - Reply Hello Jon I was wondering if you could help me? I have been a mess with what I hope is hocd. I am 34 and male and have always self identified with being heterosexual. I have had sex with 13 different girls in my life and messed around with a bunch more. I have been in a few long term relationships including my wife of over 10 years. But I looked at lots of pornography in many different types. I am hoping that it was just an escalation thing but I started to watch more than just straight porn. I found myself watching transsexuals and rarely gay. When I was young I always had crushes on girls but now I feel so empty thinking about the opposite sex and I am nervous around the same sex all the time. I used to have great sex with my wife. Now I have performance anxiety and sometimes lose my erection during the act. I feel pathetic from it and I look at women on the street thinking ya they are hot but I wouldn’t be able to perform anyway. I did have issue losing my virginity where I was nervous and did not get erect right away. But after that with my gf I was fine performing all the time. I question why when I do perform can’t I go multiple times in a row. I wanna be the best lover for my wife and I am just a ball of anxiety. I feel like I am lying to myself at this point but I really don’t wanna be gay. I question why I am not immediately erect when seeing a naked woman. I envy straight guys who don’t question anything about this. Jon Hershfield May 4, 2016 at 9:43 pm - Reply First, I would try to understand that your erections and your orientations are not one and the same. It sounds like you have performance anxiety and a somewhat excessive or unhealthy relationship to pornography, both of which probably feed off of one another. OCD, if it is a factor here, comes into play with the various mental rituals you may be engaging in to try to get certainty about your sexual difficulties. I would work with a therapist on the performance anxiety issue and the expectations you have for a healthy sex life with your wife. Davep May 2, 2016 at 9:04 pm - Reply I guess I didn’t ask many questions but stated facts my main concern is if this sounds like a case typical of ocd as I am older than average posts I see on these blogs? I would like to know if this will ever end because I feel tortured by this everyday? It consumes me and in the end it makes me majorly depressed that when I see my beautiful wife or a passing woman I am not feeling that basic internal draw like I believe I used to. Jon Hershfield May 4, 2016 at 9:52 pm - Reply The more you check for any particular feeling, the more artificial that feeling will appear and the more numb you will feel towards it. The more you avoid a feeling, the more intrusive it becomes. Spencer May 6, 2016 at 7:31 am - Reply Hello Dr. Hershfield, I’ve come across your articles along with several others online that deal with this very subject. I am a young man that is deathly terrified of the possibility of being gay or that I’ve been so secretly in denial or ignorant all these years that I didn’t realize it until now. Just so you know I have very high anxiety but I’m not sure I have OCD. My mom’s sister and my cousin have it though and others in my family have other forms of anxiety. From a young age I can recall having various fears and sometimes obsessions. I used to fear vomiting, I used to fear becoming a serial killer, I used to check under my bed and in my closets every night to make sure someone wasn’t in there with a knife and even when I checked sometimes I’d have to do it over again. Other fears included fear of a heart attack, battens disease, checking my chest for irregular heart beat, going bald at 17, thinking that aches in my head will lead to an aneurysm, and I even briefly feared I was a pedophile for young girls. Initially when I came across the term ‘HOCD’ I felt better knowing that I wasn’t completely crazy because my former therapist initially thought I was going through the motions of sexuality. But then in my desperate search for an answer I came across ’emptyclosets’ a site that helps gay, transgender, bi and others come out or a safe place for them to be themselves. This is a good thing. But I read a thread on there in which most of the posters believed that ‘HOCD’ did not exist, and if a person does not have OCD, or their only obsessive thoughts are in regard to their sexual orientation they are most likely gay. Well this sent me into a turmoil. Frankly, I have had unsuccessful relationships with girls, I have not had sex. I have gotten erect from kissing girls, hugs, and even being around them but this doesn’t help because of my lack of experience. I have a lot of the mental compulsions and some of the physical ones above. I either avoid men, or sometimes I stare at them to make sure I’m not attracted, especially if it’s a good looking dude. I look at women to make sure I am attracted. Groinal sensations are also a huge problem. I will mentally picture myself with a guy or a gay scenario to see if I’d like it and sometimes it’ll move or feel like it’s getting bigger and I will do this until I feel nothing or not in danger of an erection. On the contrary the more I try to get erect to girls online or in person, it simply doesn’t work. Then I worry that I’m forcing it and that means I’m gay. I have various fantasies, some a bit odd, that all involve women. But one night while masturbating this wasn’t working I switched over to the thought of being with a guy and was able to finish. Well needless to say I was scared to death afterwards. I’ve had a hard time getting hard to the thought of vanilla sex with girls (although it does work at times and I like it), and I think that the imagery and porn stories I’ve read with these fantasies has really numbed me to the real thing. I’m also concerned that if I really tried to masturbate to guys again I’d be able to get off again. I don’t want to but I fear the potential is there. I’ve mentally reviewed my past, sought reassurance from certain friends and family, but also been afraid to tell certain people because they might think I’m denial. I’m worried I’ll never end up with a woman because I’m incapable of it, and that if I do I’ll just hoodwink her until the day comes that I’m gay and I’ll leave her. Frankly, I’m a mess. I’ve lost weight, my sleeping patterns suck, I can’t enjoy the things in life I used to and have panic attacks every day. Above all, I’m worried that this is just denial and not OCD. Because I’ve never been diagnosed with it and that I’m using it as a cover up to hide the truth. I’m sorry for the long post, but from when I wake up to when I go to bed, this is on my mind all the time. Thank you for your time. Jon Hershfield May 24, 2016 at 10:09 pm - Reply >>>>>I’ve come across your articles along with several others online that deal with this very subject. I am a young man that is deathly terrified of the possibility of being gay or that I’ve been so secretly in denial or ignorant all these years that I didn’t realize it until now. —-So the first thing you want to be somewhat curious about is why you think the possibility of any individual thing is worth being “deathly terrified” about. Uncertainty exists everywhere and if we invest all of our attention in being terrified of this anywhere, it makes it very easy to become obsessed. >>>>Just so you know I have very high anxiety but I’m not sure I have OCD. My mom’s sister and my cousin have it though and others in my family have other forms of anxiety. From a young age I can recall having various fears and sometimes obsessions. I used to fear vomiting, I used to fear becoming a serial killer, I used to check under my bed and in my closets every night to make sure someone wasn’t in there with a knife and even when I checked sometimes I’d have to do it over again. Other fears included fear of a heart attack, battens disease, checking my chest for irregular heart beat, going bald at 17, thinking that aches in my head will lead to an aneurysm, and I even briefly feared I was a pedophile for young girls. —I can’t diagnose you from a blog comment, but the paragraph above starts with the statement that you are not sure you have OCD and ends with a list of the most common OCD symptoms there are. >>>>Initially when I came across the term ‘HOCD’ I felt better knowing that I wasn’t completely crazy because my former therapist initially thought I was going through the motions of sexuality. But then in my desperate search for an answer I came across ’emptyclosets’ a site that helps gay, transgender, bi and others come out or a safe place for them to be themselves. This is a good thing. But I read a thread on there in which most of the posters believed that ‘HOCD’ did not exist, and if a person does not have OCD, or their only obsessive thoughts are in regard to their sexual orientation they are most likely gay. —I have not been to this site, but many of my clients have. From what I have heard, this site appears to be frequented by bullies who tell everyone they’re gay for some reason. I’m not a specialist in sexuality and make no claims about who is or isn’t gay. I am a specialist in OCD and the claim that someone having their obsessive thoughts centered around this one subject is “most likely gay” is a ridiculous claim that could only be made by a non-specialist that has no business making such claims. >>>>Well this sent me into a turmoil. Frankly, I have had unsuccessful relationships with girls, I have not had sex. I have gotten erect from kissing girls, hugs, and even being around them but this doesn’t help because of my lack of experience. I have a lot of the mental compulsions and some of the physical ones above. I either avoid men, or sometimes I stare at them to make sure I’m not attracted, especially if it’s a good looking dude. I look at women to make sure I am attracted. Groinal sensations are also a huge problem. I will mentally picture myself with a guy or a gay scenario to see if I’d like it and sometimes it’ll move or feel like it’s getting bigger and I will do this until I feel nothing or not in danger of an erection. On the contrary the more I try to get erect to girls online or in person, it simply doesn’t work. Then I worry that I’m forcing it and that means I’m gay. —You are describing doing compulsions. >>>>I have various fantasies, some a bit odd, that all involve women. But one night while masturbating this wasn’t working I switched over to the thought of being with a guy and was able to finish. —I wonder what would have happened if you switched over to the thought of being with a brown paper bag. “Able to finish” is not an indicator of much. >>>>Well needless to say I was scared to death afterwards. I’ve had a hard time getting hard to the thought of vanilla sex with girls (although it does work at times and I like it), and I think that the imagery and porn stories I’ve read with these fantasies has really numbed me to the real thing. I’m also concerned that if I really tried to masturbate to guys again I’d be able to get off again. I don’t want to but I fear the potential is there. —-It’s unclear why this potential is something to fear unless you have a belief that the ability to get off to something means you must be oriented biologically to that thing. I have not seen any scientific evidence that support this extraordinary claim. My guess is, if you put your heart into it, you could get off to gay porn. This proves that you have penis, but that’s about it. >>>>I’ve mentally reviewed my past, sought reassurance from certain friends and family, but also been afraid to tell certain people because they might think I’m denial. I’m worried I’ll never end up with a woman because I’m incapable of it, and that if I do I’ll just hoodwink her until the day comes that I’m gay and I’ll leave her. —These are common compulsions and concerns in OCD. >>>Frankly, I’m a mess. I’ve lost weight, my sleeping patterns suck, I can’t enjoy the things in life I used to and have panic attacks every day. Above all, I’m worried that this is just denial and not OCD. Because I’ve never been diagnosed with it and that I’m using it as a cover up to hide the truth. I’m sorry for the long post, but from when I wake up to when I go to bed, this is on my mind all the time. Thank you for your time. —Sounds like you are having a really hard time with the intensity of this obsession and the severity of your OCD. My recommendation is that you stay off the discussion boards and go see an OCD specialist to begin cognitive behavioral therapy to treat your OCD. Spencer May 30, 2016 at 1:06 am - Reply Thank you for your reply doctor. My case with this problem isn’t very straightforward because I have some really intense fantasies and I’ve been looking at certain kinds of porn for years. Can that kill the desire for a regular relationship with a woman? Because regular bikini pics and stuff don’t do it for me anymore. I can’t get erect. It’s other stuff that I would rather not discuss here. They all have to do with women, but it’s not ‘vanilla’ so to speak. Also a huge thing with me, is “feeling gay” is this common in this kind of OCD? Because I google image attractive men (and pics of gay men too) to make sure I’m not turned on by them. And I really don’t feel anything or have any desire to masturbate/pursue men. But I feel the need to check over and over again. I mean are they good looking guys? Are they attractive? Sure. But I don’t want to do have them in my head, or have thoughts like “oh he’s cute” or “really handsome”. I don’t like them. But what if they’re real you know? What if those guys on emptyclosets are right? Are there moments for people who have this kind of OCD to be convinced of being gay even though there’s no evidence for it? To be honest, I don’t feel a whole lot of sexual attraction to anyone. Girls are more appealing but I’m fine with not having sex, much less with a guy. And to go off one of your responses, the reason I fear that potential is the exact reason you stated. That the ability to get off to this means that it’s what I prefer and that’s how I’m going to end up. . Have you ever heard of a case like mine? This just feels like a cover up of denial. Why would I have these thoughts if I wasn’t actually gay? Especially the thoughts coinciding with ‘feeling gay’? Jon Hershfield June 9, 2016 at 10:03 pm - Reply >>>>My case with this problem isn’t very straightforward because I have some really intense fantasies and I’ve been looking at certain kinds of porn for years. Can that kill the desire for a regular relationship with a woman? Because regular bikini pics and stuff don’t do it for me anymore. I can’t get erect. It’s other stuff that I would rather not discuss here. They all have to do with women, but it’s not ‘vanilla’ so to speak. —I am not an expert in sex and porn addiction, but yes, an unhealthy relationship to pornography can negatively affect your relationship to actual sex. Addressing the pornography issue could help. You might also consider that actual sex is only one aspect of a romantic/sexual relationship with a person and whatever hangups you have may not be so insurmountable that it makes sense to avoid pursuing relationships that might otherwise be healthy. >>>Also a huge thing with me, is “feeling gay” is this common in this kind of OCD? Because I google image attractive men (and pics of gay men too) to make sure I’m not turned on by them. —That’s a compulsion. If you do compulsions, your obsessions get worse. >>>>And I really don’t feel anything or have any desire to masturbate/pursue men. But I feel the need to check over and over again. I mean are they good looking guys? Are they attractive? Sure. But I don’t want to do have them in my head, or have thoughts like “oh he’s cute” or “really handsome”. I don’t like them. But what if they’re real you know? What if those guys on emptyclosets are right? Are there moments for people who have this kind of OCD to be convinced of being gay even though there’s no evidence for it? —Only always. >>>>To be honest, I don’t feel a whole lot of sexual attraction to anyone. Girls are more appealing but I’m fine with not having sex, much less with a guy. And to go off one of your responses, the reason I fear that potential is the exact reason you stated. That the ability to get off to this means that it’s what I prefer and that’s how I’m going to end up. . Have you ever heard of a case like mine? This just feels like a cover up of denial. Why would I have these thoughts if I wasn’t actually gay? Especially the thoughts coinciding with ‘feeling gay’? —Nothing you have written raises an eyebrow for me. You describe the most common of HOCD symptoms and you also may have a problem with porn addiction (or at least some confusion about the difference between porn fantasizing for masturbation and actual sex for the purpose of connecting with another human being). You should address issues instead of wasting time with compulsive checking/testing/analyzing. kinder1212 May 10, 2016 at 4:50 pm - Reply Hello, I’m very scared to write this as I never thought I would. i have suffered with weird thoughts all my life (like sexual, incest and torture all which disturbed me) I got what I believe was HOCD 2 years ago. It’s so so embarrassing to say but I guess I was masturbating over the same sex since I thought it was really naughty and out of character and that’s all at the time (I had watched lots of porn of all sorts) . (Writing that is making me freak out) anyway a few days later i thought wait what if I’m actually gay? And from there it started with the most fear and dread I have ever experienced in my life. I was puking and hurting myself, crying non stop and couldn’t be around anyone because of the thoughts. (I’m crying now). I thought I almost got over it but then starting having wet dreams which almost traumatised me as I was so shocked. But a few months later I got over since I was only having dreams and that’s it nothing else. I completely forgot about it and fell in love with a boy (only had two dreams) but then the fear came back and lots of my attraction went since I was scared of a thought popping into my head at the wrong time. Now is gone full blown back to where it was before and I’m terrified of waking up and going to sleep because of the dreams. I’ve forced myself to say bisexual which it’s really hard but I thought it would help (tho my minds screams no). I have beaten this before but I feel like maybe it’s different maybe the dreams like more relationship wise. I’m terrified as I feel like I’m the only one with this so it must mean my biggest fear is true. I’m really scared because i full well know what dreams mean and i absolutely hate it to the point i throw up, i’m terrified as this is not a symptom of HOCD. But it always starts with fear then i have the dream. Is this it? I’m not sure I can take it and I’m scared to post this. Ive had it where i’ve screamed no in my dreams or i feel really stressed or the disturbing and i wake up in sweats and i’m even checking in my dreams which is the worst. Jon Hershfield May 24, 2016 at 10:19 pm - Reply >>>>Hello, I’m very scared to write this as I never thought I would. i have suffered with weird thoughts all my life (like sexual, incest and torture all which disturbed me) —Common OCD symptoms. >>>>I got what I believe was HOCD 2 years ago. It’s so so embarrassing to say but I guess I was masturbating over the same sex since I thought it was really naughty and out of character and that’s all at the time —Sounds like as good a reason as any to me. >>>>(I had watched lots of porn of all sorts) . (Writing that is making me freak out) anyway a few days later i thought wait what if I’m actually gay? And from there it started with the most fear and dread I have ever experienced in my life. I was puking and hurting myself, crying non stop and couldn’t be around anyone because of the thoughts. (I’m crying now). —This is a pretty powerful response to a thought. It suggests some distorted beliefs about your thoughts in general and some difficulty self-regulating your emotions, both of which can be addressed in therapy. >>>>I thought I almost got over it but then starting having wet dreams which almost traumatised me as I was so shocked. But a few months later I got over since I was only having dreams and that’s it nothing else. I completely forgot about it and fell in love with a boy (only had two dreams) but then the fear came back and lots of my attraction went since I was scared of a thought popping into my head at the wrong time. Now is gone full blown back to where it was before and I’m terrified of waking up and going to sleep because of the dreams. I’ve forced myself to say bisexual which it’s really hard but I thought it would help (tho my minds screams no). I have beaten this before but I feel like maybe it’s different maybe the dreams like more relationship wise. I’m terrified as I feel like I’m the only one with this so it must mean my biggest fear is true. I’m really scared because i full well know what dreams mean and i absolutely hate it to the point i throw up, i’m terrified as this is not a symptom of HOCD. But it always starts with fear then i have the dream. —You “full well know what dreams mean”???? I don’t understand how I have not seen you on television. >>>>Is this it? I’m not sure I can take it and I’m scared to post this. Ive had it where i’ve screamed no in my dreams or i feel really stressed or the disturbing and i wake up in sweats and i’m even checking in my dreams which is the worst. —Sounds like you are in a lot of distress over your thoughts and not using any particular tools for addressing them healthily. My recommendation is that you seek treatment for OCD and stop trying to be certain about what goes on in your mind, awake or otherwise. Theodore June 13, 2016 at 6:30 pm - Reply I would appreciate some insight doctor. Basically a year ago I began suffering (again) from Harm OCD. And towards the end of August of last year I began having intrusive homosexual thoughts. I knew right away what it was and I tried so hard not to buy into them but now, a year later, I honestly can’t tell if I’m straight anymore or if I ever was. Homosexual thoughts used to make me feel sick but now I can’t tell if I like them or not. I think I have a “dick thing” because I remember before my Hocd I would get aroused at images of naked men, only penises to be exact, and any thoughts of being sexual with them were abhorrent. I think this was due to my very extensive history of porn usage, my own insecurities and who knows maybe some bi-curiosity. I began testing myself with endless mental scenarios and gay porn, I eventually tried masturbating to those thoughts to see if I like them and I think I turned myself gay now. I don’t know how to describe what I feel when seeing gay porn anymore maybe I like it, but one thing that hasn’t changed is I can not picture myself loving and being with a man at all. I fear I never had a real attraction to women and it was all a hoax and I have been slowly but surly breaking down my aversion to homosexual stuff that I set up as a defense mechanism or something. I think it is important to note that I have gone through this exact “ocd” twice before in my life and I’m scared that its not recurring ocd and that its true homosexuality I’ve been trying to repress. What do you think is actually going on Doctor? Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Jon Hershfield June 14, 2016 at 7:23 pm - Reply It sounds like your only problem is compulsive testing instead of accepting uncertainty. You pointed out that you sometimes get aroused by images of penises and that this might have something to do with an extensive history of porn usage. Could be. Why is this a problem for which you need to test and eliminate? T. June 16, 2016 at 5:46 pm - Reply Thanks for the insight. Does this sound like HOCD to you? I’m not asking for a diagnosis or anything but just a professional opinion. How would you recommend I go about treating it? I feel like if I keep testing eventually I’m going to get an answer but I know that’s not how OCD works. I also question if I even have OCD really because I experience sexual arousal towards gay images. Another fear of mine is that if I think I experience some sort of sexual arousal during testing, than is it still a compulsion to masturbate to gay stuff if I possibly got some sick enjoyment out of it or something? I think when this al started happening, I would try and convince myself I was straight. Now with these testing scenarios I put myself through, it’s like I’m trying to convince myself I’m gay so I can move on with my life but it just doesn’t work because even if I get somewhat aroused at gay images I don’t ever want to be gay or do gay things. I have nothing against gays, it’s just not a lifestyle I want or can see myself living. I’m also afraid to stop doing all this testing because what if I have HOCD and I stop testing and I let this HOCD subside and I figure out that I’m gay. I don’t want that at I’ll, honestly I think I’d rather stay being fearful of being gay for the rest of my life than truly be gay. I also feel like I’m making myself crazy because there’s short glimpses I have where I feel like I know I would never do any of this stuff in real life but maybe it’s like I’m making it a reality when I watch porn and test all the time. I sometimes masturbate 3x a day because I sit down and say ok I’m going to have a heterosexual fantasy, enjoy it and be on with my day like I used to. When I try that I get anxiety before I even start and feel this super compelling urge to look at gay stuff to try and see if I like it but I can never tell and I end up masturbating to that gay stuff then making myself crazy afterwards and trying again later only to fail again. This all sounds too gay to me to be HOCD. What’s the absolute worse is that I have the strongest “sensations” around a specific type of male (a good looking person around my age). Don’t get me wrong anything gay freaks me out but this specific type of person makes my HOCD the worst for some reason and that also really bothers me because I feel like it’s too specific to be HOCD and it’s just my “type” (typing that make me feel so sad and sick) is there anyway to get a straight answer out of my thoughts? I try to accept the uncertainty but my thoughts are stronger than my will to resist them. I never even noticed how many thoughts intrusive thoughts I have until I actually tried to resist them and when I try to resist them I feel very different for some reason. Different as in it doesn’t feel right at all to go against the thoughts and urges. I even feel some sensation of comfort when I carry out a compulsion. Even if it doesn’t relieve any anxiety from the issue at hand, the mere fact that I gave into the thought makes me feel somewhat better. Sorry for the rambling. Jon Hershfield June 20, 2016 at 4:55 pm - Reply >>>Thanks for the insight. Does this sound like HOCD to you? I’m not asking for a diagnosis or anything but just a professional opinion. How would you recommend I go about treating it? —-CBT >>>I feel like if I keep testing eventually I’m going to get an answer but I know that’s not how OCD works. I also question if I even have OCD really because I experience sexual arousal towards gay images. —Sounds like OCD to me. >>>Another fear of mine is that if I think I experience some sort of sexual arousal during testing, than is it still a compulsion to masturbate to gay stuff if I possibly got some sick enjoyment out of it or something? —If the objective is to increase certainty about your obsession, then the behavior is compulsive. >>>>I think when this al started happening, I would try and convince myself I was straight. Now with these testing scenarios I put myself through, it’s like I’m trying to convince myself I’m gay so I can move on with my life but it just doesn’t work because even if I get somewhat aroused at gay images I don’t ever want to be gay or do gay things. I have nothing against gays, it’s just not a lifestyle I want or can see myself living. I’m also afraid to stop doing all this testing because what if I have HOCD and I stop testing and I let this HOCD subside and I figure out that I’m gay. —You are trying to control something over which you have no control. A better strategy would be controlling something you do have control over, such as your behavior and whether you are doing CBT or your OCD. >>>I don’t want that at I’ll, honestly I think I’d rather stay being fearful of being gay for the rest of my life than truly be gay. I also feel like I’m making myself crazy because there’s short glimpses I have where I feel like I know I would never do any of this stuff in real life but maybe it’s like I’m making it a reality when I watch porn and test all the time. I sometimes masturbate 3x a day because I sit down and say ok I’m going to have a heterosexual fantasy, enjoy it and be on with my day like I used to. When I try that I get anxiety before I even start and feel this super compelling urge to look at gay stuff to try and see if I like it but I can never tell and I end up masturbating to that gay stuff then making myself crazy afterwards and trying again later only to fail again. This all sounds too gay to me to be HOCD. —It sounds like a combination of OCD and poor impulse control, which involves an unhealthy relationship to porn and masturbation. A good start would be a hiatus from all pornography. >>>What’s the absolute worse is that I have the strongest “sensations” around a specific type of male (a good looking person around my age). Don’t get me wrong anything gay freaks me out but this specific type of person makes my HOCD the worst for some reason and that also really bothers me because I feel like it’s too specific to be HOCD and it’s just my “type” (typing that make me feel so sad and sick) is there anyway to get a straight answer out of my thoughts? —This is common. We are wired to respond to “good looking” people. You interpret many of your responses through the lens of your obsession with orientation. >>>I try to accept the uncertainty but my thoughts are stronger than my will to resist them. —You can’t resist thoughts, only behaviors. >>>I never even noticed how many thoughts intrusive thoughts I have until I actually tried to resist them and when I try to resist them I feel very different for some reason. Different as in it doesn’t feel right at all to go against the thoughts and urges. I even feel some sensation of comfort when I carry out a compulsion. Even if it doesn’t relieve any anxiety from the issue at hand, the mere fact that I gave into the thought makes me feel somewhat better. Sorry for the rambling. —My recommendation is to get treatment for your OCD and stop compulsively testing wit pornography or otherwise. S June 21, 2016 at 3:31 am - Reply Hi there, About a week or two ago, I was browsing tumblr and read something about the notion of “compulsory heterosexuality” and the idea that lesbians/bi women are encouraged by society to be straight, so they hide/repress their sexualities unintentionally. I also saw a different post where someone mentioned that if someone was questioning their sexuality, that meant they were more than likely not straight. Ever since then, I’ve spiralled into this pit of terrified anxiety about the possibility than I’m a lesbian. I’ve never been formally diagnosed with anything, though I do have a lot of anxiety both social and general. I also am very preoccupied with death (and have been this way as long as I remember) sometimes, and I work myself up to tears a lot thinking about it. I’ve also had a variety of other fears from mildly inconvenient to wildly illogical (for example there was one night when I was reading a wikipedia article about the 9/11 attacks when i was 14 or 15 and couldn’t sleep the whole night because I was convinced terrorists were going to come and kill me during the night). OCD also seems to run in my family, as my younger (now 13 y/o) brother suffered it severely for over a year, though he seems to have it under control now. I have always been relatively confident in my sexuality. I’m 21, and I’ve never dated or had any sort of romantic or sexual relationship, but I have lots of male celebrity crushes, and I have had a few crushes on guys, and been nervous/”butterfly”-y around some as well. I’ve doubted my sexuality before, but it’s always been a passing thought, usually late at night, and never really stuck. I never felt like I was lying by identifying as straight, though sometimes I felt uneasy as I could never “be sure” since I had so little experience and wasn’t sure what sexual attraction even felt like, but I always shoved that away and told myself I was straight. I also spend a lot of time reading malexmale fanfiction and the like on tumblr, and I’ve always liked the idea of two good looking guys kissing. I thought that reaffirmed my straightness, but I can see now on tumblr that many lesbians enjoy this too, and maybe it doesn’t reaffirm anything at all. Now I’m super panicked. I feel like I’ve been in denial/repressed my whole life, and forced crushes and other “signs of my straightness” in order to feel straight and hide the fact that I was attracted to girls. I have a lot of lgbt friends, and most of my friends are girls, which is causing me even more anxiety. I keep reading things like having lots of female friends, and having lots of male celebrity crushes but not really dating means you’re a lesbian and I’m scared and panicked. I keep looking back on my experiences since childhood and comparing “straight” memories (and reading into them to find holes) and ones that could potentially be signs of my repressed lesbianism or whatever. At first I thought I was panicked because of the reactions of my parents if I came out, but I asked my mom if she would kick me out if I were a lesbian, and she said no. That calmed my initial panic a little, but it hasn’t lessened my thoughts, and I go through periods of calm and then horrendous panic. I feel like I’m constantly spending my day questioning everything. I try telling myself I’m a lesbian and it feels wrong. I keep picturing myself with guys and girls and sometimes I get tingles in my crotch area and it just freaks me out. I alternate between avoiding looking at women at all, and obsessively staring at them to figure out what I feel like. I feel like there’s this constant ball in my chest/throat and I’m going to throw up/cry all the time. I feel relieved when women are in sweatpants/sweaters and not wearing makeup because I don’t have as much of a chance to look at their legs/breasts and think they’re as pretty because of their makeup or hair. There are moments where I can forget and feel normal again and then as soon as I’ve realized I’m not thinking about whether or not I’m a lesbian, I’m right back to wondering if I’m a lesbian and wondering if forgetting for a second/having a moment of calm between the panic means I actually am a lesbian slowly accepting myself, and then I want to fight it again. I went to a waterpark with my mom and brother yesterday, and all I could do was stare at the women/girls in bikinis to try to figure out if I was attracted or not. Even young girls freak me out because I wonder if by recognizing they’re pretty, it means anything. I used to be able to call a girl pretty and feel fine, and now I have to hold it back in case it sounds like I’m a lesbian, or it’s a sign of something. I have a certain type that freaks me out the most too. I used to think it was the kind of girl I wished to be (long haired, skinny, tall, exposes moderate amounts of skin and wears feminine clothes/flowy skirts) but now I’m not so sure. I used to see cute guys sometimes and think they were cute but now I feel like all guys look the same (except sometimes my celebrity crushes still perk me up a bit) and I feel like I’m never going to look at one in real life and think “cute” again. I can’t even go through parts of the main city comfortably because if I see rainbows, I feel more sick and then I get angry at myself because I’m not homophobic. The tingles are so confusing, as is not knowing if I want to see a girl naked or not. I’ve never fantasized about marrying a girl or taking her on a date or anything like that, and even now, it gives me a ball in my throat and nausea. I feel like I could go on forever. I just don’t know what to do or if any of this is real. I know you can’t change sexualities but what if I’ve been repressing my whole life? I can’t figure out if this is HOCD or I’m a repressed lesbian and I just don’t know what to do. I know you can’t diagnose me, and I can’t afford therapy, but I’m hoping I can get something out of posting here, if only a little support. Jon Hershfield June 23, 2016 at 4:23 pm - Reply Sorry to hear you are struggling so much. Many people with OCD get their first strong obsessions kicked up by nonsense they read on the internet. Like you said, I can’t diagnose you from here, but you certainly describe several of the common behaviors I often see in my clients with OCD who are obsessed with their sexual orientation. The problem is the more you do these compulsions (your various efforts to get certain), the more you interfere in your ability to have any clarity on the issue. Then you get spiked by the rebound of not having clarity and go back to do more compulsions. You mentioned not being able to afford treatment, so you’ll have to find some other way to learn the tools for identifying and stopping the compulsions that have you enslaved by this obsession. One approach might be using a self-CBT workbook like The Mindfulness Workbook for OCD or Freedom From Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. S June 23, 2016 at 4:42 am - Reply In addition to my above comment, it’s been a few days, and I’m still questioning but I’m very calm now. I feel almost normal/like I did before, but not quite. There’s been nearly no panic for a day and a half, and the last time I cried about this was 2 days ago. I keep reading articles I’ve read before about HOCD and trying to implement the tips with varying degrees of success. I try to just let the thoughts exist in my head but it kind of worries me at the same time, and sometimes I can’t fight the urge to force myself to tell myself I’m straight in my head. Also, I can be in public more normally now, but I still find myself looking/noticing girls way too much and sometimes checking by picturing myself kissing them or taking their clothes off, to a varying degree of reactions. Sometimes I feel nothing, sometimes I feel tingly (excited?), and sometimes I still get the ball of nausea/anxiety but it’s definitely lessened. I go between feeling super calm/accepting, and wondering if that just means I’m finally accepting that I’m a lesbian, and my mother saying she wouldn’t kick me out was really what let my panic dissipate (thus her reaction being the source of my anxiety, not being gay itself), but I still WANT to be with a guy. I know I have no experience, and guys feel like a foreign species to me due to being in an all girls school for most of high school and part of middle school, but I’ve always pictured myself eventually being with one, and I just like the idea of cuddling with a cute guy and resting my head on his shoulder or sitting in his lap. I feel like this has all occurred too rapidly to be OCD…going from sheer panic to calm in the span of maybe two weeks…and particularly before my period. Do hormonal changes make mental illness/OCD/anxiety worse? Is it even possible to have panic and calm spikes so rapidly in two weeks? Everything I’ve read has had people suffering for months, so I can’t help but wonder if that means this ISN’T HOCD and I’m using HOCD as an excuse to deny my sexuality. I guess even by continuing to check this site, and post and read, maybe that’s a symptom too, but I just don’t know. I want to look at girls and feel normal again, not just an endless questioning stream of thought. I just don’t know how to help myself since I can’t get a therapist to help me figure this out either. Jon Hershfield June 23, 2016 at 4:49 pm - Reply >>>>In addition to my above comment, it’s been a few days, and I’m still questioning but I’m very calm now. I feel almost normal/like I did before, but not quite. There’s been nearly no panic for a day and a half, and the last time I cried about this was 2 days ago. I keep reading articles I’ve read before about HOCD and trying to implement the tips with varying degrees of success. —You are probably spending too much time reading HOCD articles and trying to prove to yourself that you have OCD. It might be better to stick to one source, like an OCD workbook, if you are not working with a therapist. >>>>I try to just let the thoughts exist in my head but it kind of worries me at the same time, and sometimes I can’t fight the urge to force myself to tell myself I’m straight in my head. Also, I can be in public more normally now, but I still find myself looking/noticing girls way too much and sometimes checking by picturing myself kissing them or taking their clothes off, to a varying degree of reactions. Sometimes I feel nothing, sometimes I feel tingly (excited?), and sometimes I still get the ball of nausea/anxiety but it’s definitely lessened. I go between feeling super calm/accepting, and wondering if that just means I’m finally accepting that I’m a lesbian, and my mother saying she wouldn’t kick me out was really what let my panic dissipate (thus her reaction being the source of my anxiety, not being gay itself), but I still WANT to be with a guy. —-You are describing compulsions, in this case mental rituals, and they produce predictable results — more obsessing. >>>>I know I have no experience, and guys feel like a foreign species to me due to being in an all girls school for most of high school and part of middle school, but I’ve always pictured myself eventually being with one, and I just like the idea of cuddling with a cute guy and resting my head on his shoulder or sitting in his lap. I feel like this has all occurred too rapidly to be OCD…going from sheer panic to calm in the span of maybe two weeks…and particularly before my period. Do hormonal changes make mental illness/OCD/anxiety worse? —Yes. This has been studied. >>>>Is it even possible to have panic and calm spikes so rapidly in two weeks? Everything I’ve read has had people suffering for months, so I can’t help but wonder if that means this ISN’T HOCD and I’m using HOCD as an excuse to deny my sexuality. I guess even by continuing to check this site, and post and read, maybe that’s a symptom too, but I just don’t know. I want to look at girls and feel normal again, not just an endless questioning stream of thought. I just don’t know how to help myself since I can’t get a therapist to help me figure this out either. —Yes, repeatedly returning here is probably compulsive. Wanting to feel anything (including normal) pretty much guarantees that the feeling will elude you. Instead, you need to stay present and accept whatever feelings you have as they come and go without analyzing them to death. My recommendation if you can’t get treatment for you OCD is to try a workbook approach. S June 24, 2016 at 11:08 pm - Reply Thank you so much for your comments, doctor. I’m going to try to get a book and start working on that. I’ve also noticed that I feel very calm and like I did before all this when I’m busy with tasks that require my full attention (like serving customers at work) or talking to my friends, but as soon as my brain is not 100% occupied, my thoughts drift back to this loop of AM I A LESBIAN AM I ATTRACTED TO GIRLS I’M STRAIGHT, and then I have to force myself not to check, sometimes do check, and sometimes just pull up google. I’m generally feeling fine now, though there’s like this underlying background anxiety/unease, but it’s not gripping me the way the panic of the first 2-3 days were. Like it’s tolerable. And during my checks on both guys and girls now, I either feel nothing at all, or little hints of something (maybe just groinal responses?) and I’m not sure what that means. I’m trying hard to stop with the checks though. I guess my hopefully last question is, is it normal to let go of obsessive thoughts when your mind is fully occupied, and is generally trying to stay distracted a good idea instead of having the time to endlessly ruminate? And is it normal for my mood to be generally fine now, besides the background anxiety — that is to say, is what I’m experiencing now on-par for what OCD can do (my period has started now so if I really do only get really bad in the week before it, that would explain it) — I’m just worried that maybe I’m making all this up since my really crippling anxiety/panic is mostly gone now? Jon Hershfield June 30, 2016 at 3:36 pm - Reply I think you need to continue identifying and rejecting compulsive attempts to get certainty about what you are attracted to. Distraction can provide some relief from rumination, and that’s fine, but you want to try to fill your life with things that demand your attention and also have some value. Distraction alone does nothing to move your life forward and the OCD takes advantage of you when you’re stalled. As for your anxiety and mood, it is supposed to shift and flow like it does for anyone else. Checking to make sure you are having the right amount of anxiety at any given time should be looked at as a compulsion. Rider June 23, 2016 at 4:42 pm - Reply Doctor I have a question for you. When my HOCD started about a year ago, almost right away it latched onto a very good friend of mine. I think I did this on purpose because in the past I used to have a “man crush” on him because he was just all around an amazing person. I used to like to be with him in school all the time so people knew we were friends and I of course loved to hangout with him. I remember I once had a sexual thought about him but it was intrusive and I didn’t really entertain the idea. (This intrusive thought came before the onset of HOCD and it didn’t cause me any anxiety, it was just a passing thought and I didn’t think much of it) so when I started putting myself through all of these various mental testing scenarios I would always imagine I was doing something with him. Not because I wanted to do stuff with him, but because I thought it would produce the most accurate results since I’ve had these “feelings” for him in the past. Now that I’m back home for summer I can barley look him in the eye. I’ve put myself through all these scenarios with him and sometimes I couldn’t even tell if I enjoyed them or not. I remember before the occurance of HOCD, I was with a party and he was there too and he went upstairs to go to sleep and since there was very little room to sleep I decided to go upstairs and sleep in the same room as him on the blowup air mattress and he started to act really strange and like tickle my stomach but I was “yo bro chill with that” because another guy tickelig me just was too weird. Looking back at it I feel like I might have actually enjoyed it or maybe that’s the OCD clouding my memory. Well we slept in the same bed and I didn’t once think of touching him in a sexual way and I did not get an erection or anything so I feel like that is some good evidence I am not gay. The one thing that really bothers me is that he’s been known to act sketchy while he is drunk. Like he gets very handsy with other guys sometimes. No one has ever said anything but about it really but it’s all something we’ve noticed. I am very scared what if he tries to initiate some sort of sexual contact in the future. I don’t want to have gay sex at all but after I’ve spent so much time thinking about these scenarios with him (oh god that feels so wrong to say) maybe I do want to do all those things, but I never get an erection while thinking about them. I feel like I know 100% in my heart if something was initiated I would not participate but it would be on my mind for a long time asking questions like “did I want to participate but was I too scared?” And it would throw me for a loop. I sometimes just try to just admit to myself I’m a little attracted to guys but it never sits well. My body just tells me no you’re not. And does this evidence make a difference? Over the years when I have watched porn I have always looked pretty much at the penis I think, I mean I thought you were supposed to be imagining it was you so you look at the penis and try to imagine the pleasure and now because of this I feel like I am sometimes aroused by images of other penises. Don’t get me wrong I like looking at the girls body the most but the actions of the penis is what makes porn, porn so it never felt “gay” to look at the penis during porn. I have never had a gay fantasy or watched gay porn in the future and I have always had Crushes and sexual feelings towards girls. Although I have terrible anxiety around women so I remember once in 7th grade I thought I’d rather go on a date with a guy than a girl. I wasn’t really talking about kissing them, more just that guys are much easier to hang around with than girls because there’s no anxiety. Jon Hershfield June 23, 2016 at 4:57 pm - Reply Sounds like you spent a lot of time doing mental rituals and now the results of that are causing you worse obsessions. Besides ceasing the “scenario” ritual, you need to stop trying to get certain about your feelings for your friend and stop trying to get that “100% feeling” about your orientation. Otherwise your brain will keep getting the message that your orientation is under attack. Mike June 25, 2016 at 12:16 pm - Reply Hello. Is what I’m about to describe a common occurance in HOCD? I’ve been suffering from what I hope to be HOCD for about 10 months. In the beginning, I basically fit the HOCD symptoms to a T. I recognized myself in the vast majority of the things people with OCD do such as examining the groin, putting myself in scenarios, avoidance of basically anything affiliated with gay people like music by Elton John or homosexual characters in shows or movies always frightened me to death. I would get intense panic attacks all the time but now it’s all gone, yet I feel worse than I ever have. I have virtually no anxiety anymore. The occasional spike but it’s not nearly as severe as it was before. It’s like the anxiety was just replaced with depression. It’s like I’m walking around with a weight on my chest. Last time I had a similar feeling was when my grandfather was diagnosed with cancer, although that sensation was much worse than this one. For some reason it’s like I went from trying to reassure myself I was straight, to trying and convince myself I’m gay. When I tested myself with gay porn I felt so sick in the beginning, but I had the strongest sensations in my private areas, like a bolt of lightning. I interpreted this as some sort of extreme arousal that I just wasn’t letting myself enjoy or something so I tried to force myself to enjoy it to see if I can and I think that really messed me up. I look back now and when I try to remember myself testing, it’s always memories of me trying to enjoy the thoughts for some reason which leads me to believe I do like the thoughts. I feel the need to ruminate on my thoughts constantly. Even if there’s no anxiety associated with the thoughts I still feel the need to think about it and if I dont think about it, I feel even worse. I feel like I know that being gay isn’t bad and really nobody cares one way or another and then I think well if I’m gay who cares but then I begin to feel really sick and feel like I just admitted to myself I’m gay. I honestly think there’s a possibility I might be gay because sometimes when I test myself by looking at gay stuff I have become aroused in the past. It’s not the guys that arouse me at all it’s the penis. I think this is because it’s like I can feel the sensations I see the other penis having, like I can relate to it if that makes any sense. Like it makes sense to me but then I think, “well no other straight guy would say he’s aroused by penises” so I guess it feels like I’m lying to myself about being straight. I’ve had literally countless crushes on girls all sexual in nature. But I’m afraid because I’ve also had some feelings for guys in my life which I’m starting to question. I would say these feelings are like very strong feelings of admiration because I remember like feeling so honored to be in their presence, but I never thought about them sexually before. I remeber I always used to ask other guys something like if I got into a fight would you have my back which is a really stupid and random thing to ask but I guess I just wanted to see if people thought as highly of me as I thought of them. I have never been the “alpha male” type, I hate confrontation more than anything and I feel like because I’m a wimp that means something about my sexual orientation because guys are supposed to be big and strong and women are supposed to rely on the strong males. I basically fit the roll of a female more than a male and to be honest I’m fine with that I just don’t want to be gay. I really have nothing more to say. It feels like I’m gay inside but can’t let it out no matter how hard I try. I want to just go back to wanting women but my attraction to women is like at rock bottom right now. There are some instances where I feel almost like my old self again and have that true desire for women but that goes as fast as it comes. When I have a gay thought my mind automatically depicts it as something I would like so I don’t know if that’s the OCD messing with my head or something lying dormant in me. I really have no other way to explain it. It’s like I’m gay but I’m not at the same time. I hope one day I can return back to normal but that doesn’t seem like a possibility anymore. I even once sat down and masturbated to something gay and didn’t even break a sweat when before I would literally almost pass out because I was so anxious. I would just like your overall opinion on my situation and what you think I should do, thanks. Jon Hershfield June 30, 2016 at 3:42 pm - Reply It is common for untreated OCD to result in co-morbid depression. Depression can often mask feelings of anxiety and, if the OCD remains untreated, you may feel an urge to analyze what it means that you are not feeling anxiety. Depression also comes with anhedonia (lack of pleasure), which hits your libido. You describe yourself engaging in multiple mental checking and testing rituals, so my recommendation is that you seek treatment for your OCD as well as the co-occurring depression. This thing about fitting the role of a female sounds like some distorted OCD thinking to me. Or at least some confused understanding of cultural gender roles. I hate confrontation too. And like synth pop. It hasn’t occurred to me that this is supposed to mean something. MT July 14, 2016 at 8:42 pm - Reply Hello Doctor, I’d like to get some things off my chest and get your professional opinion on them if that’s alright. So the first time I worried about being homosexual was when I was a child around 2nd grade if I recall correctly. I was riding on the pegs of a bike and my penis touched my friends back and I thought I liked the sensation and I freaked out. I remember crying and telling my parents that I thought i was gay and they were very supportive and told me it’s alright but I just kept crying and crying saying it’s not ok. I would sit in my classroom extremely distraught trying to figure out if I was gay or not. I distinctly remember thinking something along the lines of “I wish all the gay people in the room turned blue” so I could see if I turned blue or not. I also remember having multiple crushing on both girls in my class and girl student teachers at the time, I don’t recall having any crush like feelings towards other guys. But I do recall having strong feelings of admiration towards older guys on my block. One thing that brings me comfort is that I remember a few gay things happened to me during his time. A friend flashed me, another touched my penis and another kid humped me while I was bent over drinking from the water fountain. I was never aroused by these occurances, in fact, instead of doing it back to them, I went and told on them. Eventually this passed but it struck again in middle school because I was so enfatuated with a friend of mine I thought “am I gay for him?” And this threw me into my second bout with “HOCD” during this time is when I discovered masturbation and every single one of my fantasies was about women. I remember the first time I looked up nude images on the computer, it was always girls the thought of looking up nude men never crossed my mind. I also remember a few times in my life my mom found out that I was looking at this stuff so I felt so ashamed and never since have shown my parents I have a sexual side (for example I would not even acknowledge hot women in public with my parents). It was also around this time that I started being curious about other guys penises (I think this was mostly due to my delayed onset of puberty so I always felt and looked like a younger kid when I was around my peers, but also everyone had a curiosity about other people’s penises because they’d use finger measurements to compare and stuff) I always had a curiosity about the size of me and other guys and their penises but I kind of thought that was normal because I never wanted to be sexual with other guys. And honestly I think that is true even to this day because I noticed things like my friends have a curiosity about other penises because whenever there is a chance to see another one, they’d take He opportunity. For example there was a video of a guys pants ripping and his genitals fell out and I thought it was funny so I showed my friend and I noticed that some of them watched the short video multiple times. So anyway, I think I’ve always had a curiosity about penises but I guess that’s normal to some degree. I’ve always craved an intimate (both physical and emotional) with a woman and this really came to light in highschool. I’d have crushes all the time and I would day dream all day about being with women. But I never had the courage to even speak to a girl. this was due to my youthful appearance due to my delayed puberty so I never felt worthy enough to approach beautiful women. I felt so much more comfortable around other guys and that’s one of the things that is bothering me the most along the fact that I am curious about ther penises and even become aroused by looking at them. But I never felt that connection that I felt with women to a man so I never really worried I was gay, just curious. Even to this day I love to think about women but don’t have the heart to approach one. I’d get so nervous even thinking about the reality of approaching a hot girl. I’d get extremely hot and get this pins and needles sensation on my scalp and all of his makes me scared that maybe I don’t like women after all. One thing that seriously bothered me is that I loved the. Fantasy of sex but I’m not sure if I’d like it in real life. Add my severe anxiety to the fact that sex does seem to some extent kind of gross and that makes me really question everything. My 3rd round of HOCD (hopefully) came about about a year ago and I realized it was bs right away because I was suffering from harm OCD (which I’ve always had to some extent) and I read about HOCD and pocd and I was scared I was attracted to children for like a week or two but that passed and then I thought could I be gay? I tried masturvating to a gay fantasy but I wasn’t interested in it so I kind of shrugged it off until I saw a gay scene in a movie and i got his feeing that felt like a bolt of lightning in my crotch (which I have gotten in the past I think) and I spent all night looking up if you get aroused by gay porn does it make you gay and then intrusive images of me performing oral sex on every guy I saw followed shortly but I tried to not buy into it because I knew from harm OCD if you don’t give into the thoughts the will go away eventually but I failed and I thought maybe if I just think about it I can prove I don’t like it and that sent me spiraling out of control. I constantly put myself in mental scenarios and I try to masturbate to both gay and straight porn literally like 3 times a day (at first trying to prove I didn’t like the gay and I liked the hetero but now I don’t have a clue what I feel anymore). I would continuously push the envelope by doing things I was terrified to do. Like think about gay scenarios, then look at gay porn, then ejaculate to gay porn and now I’m lost in my own thoughts and I can’t tell what’s real or what I made up anymore. The first time I ejaculated to gay porn it was an unpleasurable experience which made me happy and then I became addicted to masturbating to gay porn to keep making sure I didn’t like it but now I masturbate to it and I fear I actually like it but I don’t think I do really because the orgasm isn’t very pleasant and I always have a cringe on my face while doing it. But I think I’m becoming more aroused when I look at gay things. Well not physically because gay porn makes me lose an erection but I get this feeling when i watch it and I don’t know what that feeling is but it makes me think I like to look at it. But when I watch hetero porn I felt relaxed and was able to enjoy it but that feeling is slowly fading away because like I said before I am just lost at the moment and can’t tell what I truly find arousing or anything like that. I have read gay erotica, Watched gay porn and had gay thoughts that have all at some point given me some feeling I can’t tel what it is so I assume it’s pleasure that I’m just not allowing myself to enjoy but I try to embrace he feeling but I never get anywhere because although I’m trying my hardest to I guess enjoy this feeling I just can’t and this leads me to believe I just won’t allow myself to come to terms with it not matter how hard I try. I have had a sexual thought about one of my male friends before but it was kind of an intrusive thought because we were drunk and we were talking about this girl who was going to pick us up and give us a a ride home and he said something like imagine we started having sex with her, how far would you be willing to go with me? (As in both of us having sex with the girl) and I was like what. and the thought how far would I be willing to go with him entered my mind. (This didn’t scare me or anything, it was just a thought) and also one more thing. Sometimes when I smoke weed I feel like I am truly gay and I like these thoughts that I’m having and that makes me question am I just high psyching myself out or is it really the truth. Honestly, I’m at the point where I fee like I am gay but I just can’t come to terms with it no matter how hard I try. I want nothing more than to be with a woman but it feels like in lying to myself and there’s no way I can be straight because I have become aroused and curious by looking at penises in the last and even now but I’m questioning if that’s really even a big deal or am I just making myself crazy over nothing. Sorry for the long message but I really needed to get that off my chest: Jon Hershfield July 15, 2016 at 9:06 pm - Reply Good that you were able to articulate your experience. Obviously this blog comment is too long for me to respond to in detail and you didn’t actually ask a question in the end either, so there’s not much I can say other than you describe several common compulsions people struggle with when they have this obsession. You seem to have an extensive history of various forms of physical and mental checking, which have repeatedly sent the message to your brain that there is something to doubt. I encourage you to seek CBT from an OCD specialist to identify and change these behaviors so you can get some clarity on how you would like to live your life. Kyle August 4, 2016 at 5:01 pm - Reply Hello, I was recently diagnosed with OCD after four years of thinking it was just anxiety, and have been trying to be really proactive in dealing with OCD. I started going to therapy, and reading various books, including your mindfulness book. The chapter on cognitive distortions was extremely helpful, and really helped me not only recognize the danger of my thought patterns, but also knowing how to challenge them. I was wondering, though, what I should do when my OCD thoughts manifest themselves not as “word” thoughts, but instead as intense, sexually explicit images or impulses. Is there a way that I can challenge those as well, besides relabeling them and attributing it to my faulty OCD brain? Thanks. Jon Hershfield August 8, 2016 at 1:23 am - Reply I do not generally recommend relabeling or reattributing thoughts to a faulty brain (that’s the method you might see in the book Brain Lock, but not something I think is particularly effective). Images in the mind are thoughts. They are your thoughts, whether you like them, dislike them, think they represent your identity, or think they are nonsense. If you are approaching your OCD from a cognitive perspective, then you might challenge the assumptions you have about what it means to have thoughts (images) like that in your head. But first, I would prioritize looking at ways in which you may be resisting having those images in your head and work on accepting their presence instead of trying to disown them. damian August 4, 2016 at 6:08 pm - Reply Hi. This first started with random unwanted images or thoughts jumping up. Now I have this thing. For example, I see a man, thoughts start to come up immediately. If I am standing too close for example, thought of kissing, fondling and stuff. I have to look away for this to go away. While later these thoughts seem disgusting, so I have to recreate it in my mind and make sure I find it disgusting. Now for example if later I am standing next to a girl so close. My mind asks me if you would like to kiss her on the neck for example, why not the same thing there? Then my mind brings up random words like homosexual desires or hidden urges, basically words that scare me. Now after I have this spike, later it tells me what would someone else say, and what if I’ll have to struggle with this the rest of my life. Basically, the first part, random images, don’t bother me now. But this I find challenging. Do you think this is still HOCD? Any help is appreciated. Jon Hershfield August 8, 2016 at 1:17 am - Reply >>>>Hi. This first started with random unwanted images or thoughts jumping up. Now I have this thing. For example, I see a man, thoughts start to come up immediately. If I am standing too close for example, thought of kissing, fondling and stuff. I have to look away for this to go away. —Looking away is a compulsion that sends the message to your brain that your thoughts are very important and problematic. It would be better to look wherever you look, have whatever thoughts you have, and stand wherever you want. >>>>While later these thoughts seem disgusting, so I have to recreate it in my mind and make sure I find it disgusting. —This is a common mental ritual, a checking/testing compulsion, and something you would want to label and abandon if you want the obsession to decrease. >>>Now for example if later I am standing next to a girl so close. My mind asks me if you would like to kiss her on the neck for example, why not the same thing there? Then my mind brings up random words like homosexual desires or hidden urges, basically words that scare me. Now after I have this spike, later it tells me what would someone else say, and what if I’ll have to struggle with this the rest of my life. —This hyper-analysis is also a mental compulsion. >>>>Basically, the first part, random images, don’t bother me now. But this I find challenging. Do you think this is still HOCD? Any help is appreciated. —-I’m not sure I understand what you are asking. You describe doing multiple compulsions that are common in OCD of this theme. My recommendation is to get treatment for your OCD and work on identifying and stopping the compulsions that are keeping the obsession alive. victoria August 14, 2016 at 4:46 pm - Reply Hi everyone, Hi Jon… I wrote sometime ago and it was very helpfull to me, as it is reading everyone else’s posts. i’m victoria. I was wondering if there are cases of hocd that last… years. I mean 10 years, 20 years I don’t know. Sometimes I read stories that sound acute. And I’ve been struggling with this like… 10 years. I’m 27, this started at 17 more or less. I feel that I’ve learnt a lot from this,.. specially when I found Jon Hershfield, really. I learnt about uncertainty, and non response therapy. It helped me accept my thoughts, accept attraction, admit attraction, and also be more tolerant to the gay community. Yet, this hocd is like a mutant in my life. When I was younger it was very obvious that it was an obsession, but as time went by… it changed. It’s always changing. And it becomes a bigger challenge to my mind to discern whether or not it is hocd. It feels more real every time, and even so I don’t feel the pleasent urge to go and meet girls. I don’t like that idea, it’s not pleasent to me, it’s full of anxiety and discomfort. Also, I’ve put on weight, which is when hocd attacts the most, whem I don’t feel comfortble enough to be with a man… I wanted to know if you’ve seen cases like this.. mutant hocd haha and if you have some advise to go around it. Thank you so much as always- Jon Hershfield August 28, 2016 at 4:40 pm - Reply >>>>>Hi everyone, Hi Jon… I wrote sometime ago and it was very helpfull to me, as it is reading everyone else’s posts. i’m victoria. I was wondering if there are cases of hocd that last… years. I mean 10 years, 20 years I don’t know. Sometimes I read stories that sound acute. And I’ve been struggling with this like… 10 years. I’m 27, this started at 17 more or less. —Yes, I have seen many clients who struggled with their obsession (whether sexual orientation-themed or not) for decades. >>>>>I feel that I’ve learnt a lot from this,.. specially when I found Jon Hershfield, really. I learnt about uncertainty, and non response therapy. It helped me accept my thoughts, accept attraction, admit attraction, and also be more tolerant to the gay community. Yet, this hocd is like a mutant in my life. When I was younger it was very obvious that it was an obsession, but as time went by… it changed. It’s always changing. And it becomes a bigger challenge to my mind to discern whether or not it is hocd. —There is no vaue in trying to get certain about what is or is not OCD. The point is that you have a deficit in uncertainty TOLERANCE. Your goal should be to remain open to the idea that your thoughts about sexual orientation have unknown relevance. >>>>It feels more real every time, and even so I don’t feel the pleasent urge to go and meet girls. I don’t like that idea, it’s not pleasent to me, it’s full of anxiety and discomfort. —Anxiety is a discomfort felt by resisting the presence of thoughts and feelings as if they were threatening intruders. >>>>Also, I’ve put on weight, which is when hocd attacts the most, whem I don’t feel comfortble enough to be with a man… I wanted to know if you’ve seen cases like this.. mutant hocd haha and if you have some advise to go around it. Thank you so much as always- —You don’t sound like a mutant to me. 😉 I think you need to recognize that this subject (sexuality) has a quality to it that makes it stand out for you. You have a history of grappling with the subject and whether you chalk it all up to OCD or something else, you still have to accept that the subject presents itself with frequency. Above all, if you want freedom from an obsession, you have to stop trying to prove that it’s an obsession. M August 23, 2016 at 1:36 am - Reply Hello Doctor, I have struggled with this obsession about 3 times in my life, and I am currently obsessing about it now for about a year. The thing is, I find penises arousing for some reason, but not men in the slightest. I have a few theories as to why. Firstly, I am self-conscious about my size so I’ve always wanted to see other penises to see how I contend, I imagine if I had a larger penis than the one I am viewing, I’d have no interest at all in looking at it. Secondly, I can relate to the sensations the penis in porn is feeling, so I think that contributes to my arousal. The thing is that I really hated gay porn in the beginning of my testing, I found it so repulsive. Now, after a year of testing, I can watch it without feeling disgusted anymore. Much to my dismay, I can ejaculate to gay porn and this really bothers me. I feel like this is concrete proof that I am not totally heterosexual. When I watch gay porn I don’t even get an actual erection until I try to masturbate but I find that I ejaculate quickly, this also really bothers me because I feel like it is further proof of me being gay. On the other hand, homosexual fantasies do absolutely nothing for me. Is it possible that I only get such sensations when actually viewing porn because of the fear that I feel watching it, or maybe its arousal I cant help because my brain is viewing sexually explicit material? One thing I can happily say is that I genuinely enjoy watching straight porn, while I don’t enjoy watching gay (I think, It’s hard to tell after a year of constantly forcing myself to watch it) I never watched gay porn or had a gay sexual fantasy for pleasure once in my life, but I do remember there were a few times where I looked up images of naked men (not men being sexual with other men, but just nude men) and I got aroused, maybe more aroused than I got to images of naked women. But I have spent 6 years watching porn, which was always centered around women so maybe something new just felt more exciting? (I have heard of masturbation addicts who delve into gay porn because the novelty of heterosexual porn wore off, and I think this was the case). Basically, I have always lusted after women my entire life and have been afraid of being a homosexual. I had a gay dream once before the onset of my hocd and it really bothered me, and to be completely honest it wasn’t even a gay dream, it was a bisexual dream if anything because the dream was a random man and woman having sex and I wanted to have sex with the woman too and then someone started touching my penis (in the dream) and I ejaculated and it was the man who touched my penis so when I woke up I freaked out and was questioning whether that dream men anything or not. I guess my questions to you are: 1) does anything in this comment suggest I am a homosexual to you and 2) If I am aroused by penis does that make me gay? (I don’t want to be sexual with a penis in anyway, just looking at them arouses me). I have read that penises are an arousal Que in humans, have you heard of this, and what are your thoughts. In conclusion, I know I would never want to have sex with a man or anything but this all bothers me so much because being gay goes against what I want, so the prospect of being gay is scary to me. I have nothing against homosexuals, I have two in my family and I don’t think any differently about them at all. One last thing, is it possible I just find the taboo-ness of gay stuff arousing because it does against the norms or being a heterosexual? I feel so lost and need some guidance, if you can please give me your opinion maybe I can try to move on from this mental torture of constant doubt and checking. Thank you. Jon Hershfield August 30, 2016 at 5:23 pm - Reply >>>>>Hello Doctor, I have struggled with this obsession about 3 times in my life, and I am currently obsessing about it now for about a year. The thing is, I find penises arousing for some reason, but not men in the slightest. I have a few theories as to why. —Are theories necessary? Can’t you just let yourself have a “dick thing” and not compulsively reinforce the idea that it’s a problem that needs justification? >>>>>>Firstly, I am self-conscious about my size so I’ve always wanted to see other penises to see how I contend, I imagine if I had a larger penis than the one I am viewing, I’d have no interest at all in looking at it. Secondly, I can relate to the sensations the penis in porn is feeling, so I think that contributes to my arousal. The thing is that I really hated gay porn in the beginning of my testing, I found it so repulsive. Now, after a year of testing, I can watch it without feeling disgusted anymore. Much to my dismay, I can ejaculate to gay porn and this really bothers me. —The results of compulsive testing, like any compulsion, are predictable. They make you take your obsession more seriously. Only in the case of sexual testing with pornography, it is worse because the body’s natural response to sexual stimulation is to make you feel good and you get the reinforcement to return to the testing for both OCD and addiction purposes. >>>>I feel like this is concrete proof that I am not totally heterosexual. —That’s a feeling, not a proof. >>>>When I watch gay porn I don’t even get an actual erection until I try to masturbate but I find that I ejaculate quickly, this also really bothers me because I feel like it is further proof of me being gay. On the other hand, homosexual fantasies do absolutely nothing for me. Is it possible that I only get such sensations when actually viewing porn because of the fear that I feel watching it, or maybe its arousal I cant help because my brain is viewing sexually explicit material? —there is no way you will get clarity about your obsessive fear of being homosexual while also compulsively masturbating to gay porn. >>>>One thing I can happily say is that I genuinely enjoy watching straight porn, while I don’t enjoy watching gay (I think, It’s hard to tell after a year of constantly forcing myself to watch it) I never watched gay porn or had a gay sexual fantasy for pleasure once in my life, but I do remember there were a few times where I looked up images of naked men (not men being sexual with other men, but just nude men) and I got aroused, maybe more aroused than I got to images of naked women. But I have spent 6 years watching porn, which was always centered around women so maybe something new just felt more exciting? (I have heard of masturbation addicts who delve into gay porn because the novelty of heterosexual porn wore off, and I think this was the case). Basically, I have always lusted after women my entire life and have been afraid of being a homosexual. I had a gay dream once before the onset of my hocd and it really bothered me, and to be completely honest it wasn’t even a gay dream, it was a bisexual dream if anything because the dream was a random man and woman having sex and I wanted to have sex with the woman too and then someone started touching my penis (in the dream) and I ejaculated and it was the man who touched my penis so when I woke up I freaked out and was questioning whether that dream men anything or not. —the above seems like a compulsive confession aimed at getting reassurance that your experience is normal. I can’t comment on your sexual orientation, but it does seem that you have a relationship with pornography that is somewhere between healthy and obsessive and this may be causing you some problems with your OCD as well. >>>>I guess my questions to you are: 1) does anything in this comment suggest I am a homosexual to you and —Reassurance seeking is a common compulsion in OCD. >>>>>2) If I am aroused by penis does that make me gay? (I don’t want to be sexual with a penis in anyway, just looking at them arouses me). I have read that penises are an arousal Que in humans, have you heard of this, and what are your thoughts. —I am not a sex specialist or an expert in what “makes” someone gay. I treat OCD, a disorder characterized by unwanted intrusive thoughts and ritualized compulsive behaviors that impair functioning and quality of life. I can say that all sexual thoughts cause activation in people and this appears to be mostly independent of their orientation or identity. >>>>In conclusion, I know I would never want to have sex with a man or anything but this all bothers me so much because being gay goes against what I want, so the prospect of being gay is scary to me. I have nothing against homosexuals, I have two in my family and I don’t think any differently about them at all. One last thing, is it possible I just find the taboo-ness of gay stuff arousing because it does against the norms or being a heterosexual? —Yes, that is one possibility. >>>>I feel so lost and need some guidance, if you can please give me your opinion maybe I can try to move on from this mental torture of constant doubt and checking. Thank you. —My opinion is that you need to stop seeking certainty and stop watching gay porn for any reason other than enjoyment. It may be wise to seek professional advice on your overall relationship to porn and masturbation, as well as get an assessment from an OCD specialist on your fear of being gay. ab September 25, 2016 at 7:26 pm - Reply Hi, I’m a 21 year old female diagnosed with OCD for over a year now but I keep thinking about how I have appreciated women’s beauty throughout my life and I am quite worried. When I find a woman beautiful I have feel this thing in my chest that I had never given much thought to before OCD because I interpreted it as a feeling I got when I saw something beautiful. However, nowadays I ask other female friends if they feel such a thing when admiring another woman’s beauty and the answer is no, so that makes me think I might be bisexual even though that feeling has never been consciously a romantic one, but maybe a subconsciously it is? I don’t know if I am making any sense. Anyways, thank you for your blog and your amazing work, it is truly helpful. Jon Hershfield September 29, 2016 at 12:23 pm - Reply It is difficult to respond to this without giving you reassurance. My recommendation is to stop judging your experience, stop label-seeking and certainty-seeking, and learn to appreciate the way you think. I can think of worse fates than having a pronounced appreciation for beauty. ab October 2, 2016 at 3:45 pm - Reply thank you for your answer but at this point I don’t really know what that appreciation of beauty means, it feels like I’m lost. I understand your not wanting to give me the reassurance my ocd is seeking but this is one hard wall it has set for me and I don’t know how to continue. Is this bisexuality? is this ocd? is this beauty appreciation? I don’t know anymore. Jon Hershfield October 2, 2016 at 3:53 pm - Reply Trying to be certain of its meaning is a choice you are making and assuming that its meaning is significant is, well, an assumption. I would encourage you to embrace the not-knowing and get better at it. You seem to acknowledge that OCD is involved here, so you need to help yourself stand up to it by choosing uncertainty over reassurance. If in the course of doing this you continue to appreciate beauty, then don’t squander it with something as banal as “meaning” attribution. Mike September 29, 2016 at 1:57 am - Reply Hello Doctor I have a question to ask. I believe I have HOCD, I have exhibited many (I think all but one or two) of the signs of HOCD. I crave an intimate relationship with a girl but there are some things that make me think I might be gay and I would like your opinion. Firstly, I have experienced a “man-crush” on two same sex friends before and I would describe the experience something like this “When I say ‘man-crush’ it’s nothing sexual, but it’s something very similar to a crush you would have on a girl; like glancing at them or admiring their actions and accomplishments.” (I found this on the internet and it was being asked as a poll if it was normal and if other guys have experienced it and the vast majority did 242 people said yes while 65 said no) And it’s not like I would want to spend my life with them or anything I guess it’s just a very strong feeling of admiration. I’m not sure if this information makes a difference, but I find myself to be a very compassionate person. I feel love for all human beings. I also get aroused some times by gay things, not the men themselves but just penises. I think I may have formed some sort of sick penis fetish by watching too much porn. When I see guys on the street, no gay thoughts of any nature ever cross my mind but I can say with certainty that I am attracted to women both sexually and romantically. I have legitimate crushes on girls all the time and the “man-crush” feelings pale in comparison. I know that I want nothing more than to meet a girl I love but my mind is trying its best to derail everything I was certain of in the past. Although I have felt these possibly homosexual feelings, I know what I want in life and that is not it in the slightest but I don’t feel comfortable about my sexuality anymore (or anything for that matter) because these thoughts/feelings go against everything I thought I knew about myself. I know I don’t ever want to have sex with men because I may have had the opportunity before (actually with one of the guys I had a “man-crush” on) but I wasn’t even considering it. It’s strange because I feel like I know deep down I am straight but my mind is trying so hard to convince me otherwise. I have went to counseling for OCD (both harm and now *hopefully* HOCD, my therapist was convinced I have HOCD but I just don’t know for sure) in the past. Any feedback you have for me would be greatly appreciated and I just have some closing questions. 1) Based on what I wrote in this comment would you guess that I am gay or have HOCD? And 2) Would you deem these feelings “normal” in regular heterosexual men? Thank you. Jon Hershfield September 30, 2016 at 7:39 pm - Reply >>>>1) Based on what I wrote in this comment would you guess that I am gay or have HOCD? —-I am not an expert in sexual orientation and do not tell people whether they are gay, straight, or anything else. I specialize in OCD, which it seems clear from what you’ve written that you have. Since OCD is characterized by a deficit in uncertainty tolerance, it should come as no surprise that you feel unsure about your therapist’s assessment. Rather than trying to get certainty, it would be better to focus on improving your ability to not know. >>>>And 2) Would you deem these feelings “normal” in regular heterosexual men? —You are seeking reassurance here, which is making your OCD worse. I don’t know what “normal” means but people have feelings for one another and development all kinds of attachments to these feelings and the people who stir them up. I noticed a tendency in your post toward self-criticism (i.e. “sick” was the word you used to describe a potential fetish). I would explore that with your therapist since self-criticism is often one of the ways OCD bullies us into doing compulsions. Leave A Comment Comment... Name (required) Email (required) Website POST COMMENT Jon Hershfield, MFT hershfield-80x90Director of The OCD and Anxiety Center of Greater Baltimore and specialist in the treatment of OCD and related disorders. Learn more about Jon Hershfield Brenda Kijesky, LGMFT Licensed Graduate Marriage and Family Therapist, treating children and adults with OCD and related disorders. Learn more about Brenda Kijesky Molly Schiffer, LGPC Licensed Graduate Professional Counselor, treating children, adolescents, and adults with OCD and related disorders. Learn more about Molly Recent Articles IMG_9926   New Office and New Team Member: OCGB Welcomes Molly Schiffer, LGPC March 27th, 2017 Man solving problem thinking   How to Respond to Unwanted Thoughts July 23rd, 2016|34 Comments officebldg   Introducing Brenda Kijesky, LGMFT May 21st, 2016 Latest News April 7th at the 2017 Anxiety and Depression Association of America Conference in San Francisco, CA "Using Games to Improve ERP Compliance When Treating OCD" by Jon Hershfield and Shala Nicely July 7th at the International OCD Foundation's 24th Annual OCD Conference in San Francisco, CA "ERP Games for Living Joyfully with OCD" with Jon Hershfield and Shala Nicely July 8th at the International OCD Foundation's 24th Annual OCD Conference in San Francisco, CA "The Use of Technology in OCD Treatment" with Elizabeth McIngvale, Monnica Williams, Katrina Rufino, and Jon Hershfield July 9th at the International OCD Foundation's 24th Annual OCD Conference in San Francisco, CA "My OCD Says I’m a Bad Person: Tackling Moral Scrupulosity" with Jon Hershfield and Patrick McGrath THE LATEST FROM FACEBOOK The OCD and Anxiety Center of Greater BaltimoreThe OCD and Anxiety Center of Greater Baltimorewww.ocdbaltimore.com/ocgb-welcomes-molly/ New clinician at The OCD and Anxiety Center of Greater Baltimore and more! 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