#it might be able to get more discussion popping about this show!

[ellameloetta]

this. essay. was. AMAZING OP

Alright everyone, this beast is finally out! This is a project that I’ve been working on for a long time, and a big reason why I’ve been so quiet on this blog. Season 4 really never sat right with me, and after stewing a bit I finally decided to bite the bullet and fully dissect why. A year and change later, I had a three hour essay on my hands, which I guess is something that happens to even the best of us sometimes.

This is a full critical breakdown of every major element of Carmen– what I liked, what I didn’t like, what went wrong, and, most importantly, how it could do better.  I broke it up into about ten different chapters, each focusing on a different character (or plotpoint), so if you don’t have time to watch it in one sitting and/or don’t have superhuman focus, you can certainly watch it in chunks and not lose a whole lot. I don’t expect everyone to agree with every point or position I present, but the most important thing to me in this project was breaking down why I take the positions I do and to deeply examine the underlying ideas and logic of the show; so even if you think differently, you still might get something out of what I have to say. I’ve seen so many people discuss the worse elements of the show (evil Carmen, the mindwiper, the ending, season 3, the copganda, Gray. Oh My God Gray.) but I think what I’ve really wanted to see post-Season 4 was a dissection of the actual mindset and creative process behind the writing. I genuinely can’t tell you how many arguments I’ve watched people have in this fandom where I could see how both sides were reasonably correct about the same thing, they just (IMHO) failed to see the common factor at play. Who knows! Maybe this video will settle some longstanding debates. Anything is possible. I hope people enjoy what I have to say as much as I enjoyed writing it! (TW for discussion of police/state violence, racial police violence, simulated gun violence, death, etc in the section about ACME. Basically what’s already in the show anyway, but just in case, I’m definitely going to talk about that)

[notsopersonalcharlie]

Honey Belle

Biker!Bucky Barnes x fem!reader fluff - Part of the Biker!Bucky Series

One part lead-up to the future and one part how Bucky and belle met.

Warnings: Mentions of sex and alcohol, discussion of a past relationship that bordered on abusive (non-binary reference), more car talk because i love mini coopers.

Note: My apologizes because i lost all my progress on this when i was about halfway through. Also I just have brainrot about them now sorry in advance.

"No no no no, please baby you can make it its just a litt-" The engine shuddered and then gave out. You groaned, banging your head against the steering wheel as you pulled off to the side of the quiet street. It was getting stifling in the car very quickly. The heat wave was precisely why you needed to take Baby Blue in. Your phone showed another mile and a half on the map you saved. This shop was in some dead end town, but it was the only one that had agreed to service the vintage coop.

"Couldn't have saved me the walk?" you asked to the car as you grabbed your bag and hauled it over your shoulder. You scrawled a note to leave on the windshield and began down the straight road. The trees on either side provided some shade, but there was no sidewalk, so as you continued you could peek back at your car and to check on any oncoming traffic.

The first signs of life you saw came ten minutes into your walk. You hadn't gotten far. It was sweltering and you had to leave straight from work, so your shoes were the least comfortable thing to walk in as you sweat.

Two motorcycles were headed your way, and to your surprise they both stopped. One was wearing a light brown leather jacket, and he pulled off his helmet immediately. He had blond hair and a kind looking smile, but you were also alone in a mysterious location with no signal.

"Hey, you alright?" You stared at them, and took a step back when he took a step toward you.

"Uh-"

"You had an appointment at the Howling Commando? Twenty minutes ago? Blue vintage Austin Mini Cooper?" The other guy had popped up his visor, but hadn't taken off the helmet yet. His blue eyes were sharp, watching you. You took another two steps back.

"Buck, lose the helmet," the blond guy admonished, "We work there, you said when you called that you were worried about the heat and the engine, so when you no-showed we thought you might have gotten stuck. I'm Steve. We talked on the phone the first time I think, and then you talked to Yelena to get the details." The other guy pulled off his helmet and you thought your heart might stop. Sure the blond, Steve, was handsome in a clean cut preppy kind of way, but this guy looked like he walked out of one of the fantasy books your read as a kid. Dark eyebrows slanted over his bright blue eyes, his scruff adding to the rugged look he was sporting. He waved, a shy smile slicing away the fear you had held entirely. It changed his face, you wanted to make it happen again.

"Bucky. We'll get you all fixed up."

-/-/-/-/-

"Belle, ya home?" You looked up from your laptop. You hadn't been able to pull yourself away from the document you were building for the new hires.

"Yeah- I- oh shit. I forgot to start dinner." You turned to find Bucky stepping through the doorway from the kitchen. His grease stained tshirt was tossed over his shoulder already, leaving all his tattoos on display. One in particular always caught your attention, the sketch of a mini cooper right over his heart.

"How many time do I gotta tell you?" He asked, dropping the shirt in the hallway before coming over to you. You stood, tilting your chin to look up at him as he wrapped one arm around your back and cradled the back of your neck with the other.

"You don't have to worry about that stuff, honey. I'll take care of dinner. Finish up your work, it'll be done in no time."

"I need a break, baby, seriously. I'll help." His eyes narrowed.

"You sure?" You nodded, turning back to hit save and taking his outstretched hand to go back into the kitchen. You chopped veggies while he marinated chicken and he told you about his day at the shop. It was a familiar routine by now, three years into your relationship, but you couldn't help but feel the guilt in your stomach again. He spent all day on his feet.

"Hey, lose the face." You looked up at him.

"What?"

"I can feel your thoughts from over here." He set down the spices, rinsing his hands and patting them dry before coming over to you and wrapping you up in his arms. He was anything but weak, and carefully lifted you onto the unoccupied part of the counter and stood between your legs, looking you dead in the eye. You blinked slowly, trying not to fall into the trap of his icy-blue silence. It was impossible.

"I just feel bad is all, you spend all day on your feet and working and then you come home and make dinner. It feels, not fair." Bucky tilted his head to the side, eyebrows up. It was a conversation you had all the time, and you knew how he felt about it. He did serious very well, even if you knew there was a smile lurking just behind it.

"You know that's not how I feel. I love taking care of you. You work so hard every day trying to change the world for the better. I go dick around with my friends all day playing with cars." You snorted.

"I'm serious! My number one and most important job is taking care of my girl. I will make you dinner every night for the rest of our lives together, if that's what it takes to prove it."

"You don't have to do-"

"Nope, you're banished from the kitchen. Go feed Alpine. Get lost." You laughed, taking his face into your hands before he could lift you back off the counter. His lips were warm and soft, and his hands wrapped tighter around your middle as you tilted your head to deepen the kiss before pulling away. You rested your forehead against his, breathing in the smell of motor oil and coffee.

"I love you, James Barnes." He gave you that sweet smile, the one that transformed him into an entirely different man.

"I love you, honey belle. Now get the fuck outta my kitchen."

-/-/-/-/-

You woke up and stretched, yawning as your rubbed your eyes and sat up. And then you became aware again that you were not in your own room and you were laying in an empty bed. You glanced around, noting the distinct lack of a tall tattooed biker who had left hickeys on your chest and had all but fucked you to sleep the night before.

In his place lay a small gray cat, it sat up when you did and surveyed you before jumping gracefully off the bed and leaving out the open door. You stood up, glancing at yourself in the mirror. You were wearing a shirt that said the Howling Commandos Garage and Bar on the front. It was well worn and soft, with little frays on the bottom and the collar. Your hair was a mess and you smoothed it out before following the cat into the rest of the apartment. Your clothes which had been strewn across the living room were neatly folded in a pile on the back of the couch, and there was a note scrawled on top.

Had to head off to fix up your baby. Coffee in the pot. Stay if you'd like. Bucky

Bucky looked wistfully down the block at his apartment building.

"What is your deal today, Barnes?" Sam asked. He was newer, and Steve had brought him in to tend bar, but also help with the books at the garage. Bucky grumbled that they didn't need new people, and Steve returned with patience that just because Bucky didn't want to make new friends, didn't mean they didn't need new staff.

"He's got a crush," Steve laughed from the other side of a pickup.

"I'll have you know I sealed that deal," Bucky shot back. There was a thunk sound and then Steve appeared over the hood, rubbing the top of his head.

"What the hell are you doing there then?" Bucky shrugged.

"She was still asleep. I left her coffee and a note." Sam snorted.

"See her never."

"Her car is literally right in front of me."

"She's gonna take it somewhere else," Sam shot back. Bucky's eyes narrowed, dropping the wrench he had on hand. He was starting towards Sam when a new voice echoed through the garage.

"I would really appreciate it if you fixed my car, not got blood on it." You strolled in the front of the garage and Bucky considered falling to his knees and begging for you to stay with him forever. You were wearing your jeans and sandals from the night before, but on top you had on his Howling Commandos shirt with the original design and logo. You were holding one of the mugs from his kitchen and had an easy smile on your face.

"I thought I'd come check on the progress on my baby. Maybe learn a thing or two." Steve smirked at Bucky and turned back to his work. Sam had suddenly made himself scarce into the office.

"Sure thing, but can't let you learn too much, you might notice some things going wrong just so you can stop by to see me." You nudged Bucky with your elbow, taking a sip of coffee as you followed him back to your car.

"I don't know, I think I could have other reasons to stop by and see you."

-/-/-/-/-

You woke up to sunlight coming in through the open curtains. Bucky was sound asleep on his stomach, face pressed into his pillow and his arm thrown over you. After a moment of relishing the cuteness of him keeping you close while he was asleep, you slipped out of his grasp and headed for the kitchen.

It was mostly clean, and you started a pot of coffee for the morning before tidying up just a little bit more. Bucky had slipped in after you fell asleep. He was working the bar when you left full of a burger and with kisses pepper to your nose promising he'd be home soon. The rest of the staff had ribbed him endlessly while saying goodnight to you.

You grumbled to yourself about having to wake Bucky's whining ass up to take you to work when you noticed something on the counter. Your car keys. Trying not to get your hopes up, you peeked out the front windows and let out a squeal when you saw your car sitting in the driveway, a comically small bow on the hood.

"Wha-Who's there?" Bucky ran out in just his boxers, fists up prepared to fight an intruder apparently, but instead got a chestful of you.

"She's done?" It took him a moment to register what who you were and what you were referring to.

"Huh? Oh. Yeah, belle, she's done." You threw your arms around Bucky's shoulders, squeezing him tight.

"Thank you thank you thank you! She'll run for another three years? No problems?" Bucky held you tight, sleep already returning as he nuzzled against your neck.

"Even better. She should be alright for at least another five to ten." You pressed kisses to his face and then his hands, and kissed him goodbye for the day. Your outfit for the morning was already hanging in the bathroom and it made your morning to not have to pack extra clothes for the bike. Instead you put your coffee in a to go mug, your lunchbox in your purse, and headed for the door. The car started up with a hum and you patted the dash, turning on your favorite radio station and rolling down the windows on your way to work.

-/-/-/-/-

You sighed on your way into your apartment. Bucky said he was headed over after you left, and now you had to clean up and start on dinner. Work had been exhausting, and you had found yourself fixing other peoples' work first thing in the morning, which put you back on your own deadlines.

Still, you tossed your bag onto the black hole chair of random items in the bedroom and changed out of your work clothes into something comfy for movie night. You had bought all the ingredients for homemade pizzas over the weekend when you were ambitious about when you were going to get out of work.

"Five minutes on the couch," you muttered to yourself, "then back to work." Five minutes quickly turned into doom scrolling until Bucky knocked on your front door.

"Shit." You jumped off the couch and started pulling things out of the fridge frantically to make it look like you had already started the process. The knocking grew frantic after a minute and you rushed to the door. Bucky's eyes were wide, but he relaxed when he saw you were fine.

"Sorry, I didn't hear you." His soft smile melted your nerves a fraction, and he leaned down to press a kiss to your lips.

"You had a long day, I understand." He followed you into the kitchen, and you frowned at the array you had pulled out. Sure you had the pizza dough and sauce but also a jar of pickles, some miso, and a block of tofu.

"What were you planning on making?" Bucky asked, examining the contents of a mystery tupperware.

"Uh..." You considered coming up with a lie about cleaning your fridge, panic welling back up that he would be upset you had gotten sidetracked away from making dinner.

"I... I'm sorry, I panicked when I heard you because I hadn't started making dinner and I knew you would be hungry so I just started pulling things out of the fridge and I..." you could feel yourself beginning to ramble into a spiral.

"Woah! Woah, belle, calm down. It's okay!" Bucky came around the counter, hands on your shoulders to ground you.

"It is really okay, belle, I know you had a long day. You don't have to make me dinner. I mean it. You work long hours and clean up other people's messes all day." You could feel tears prickling at the corners of your eyes and looked down at the logo of some motorcycle brand on Bucky's shirt.

"You just work all day at the shop and I know that can be exhausting, so I just wanted to make you food so you'll be..." you trailed off. So he would be what? Had never gotten pissed at you because dinner wasn't on the table or that you didn't get him his drink before yours. He had never thrown his empty can in your direction when you didn't get a new one for him before it was empty. Bucky called your name, pushing your chin up to meet his eyes. They were big and blue and full of concern that grew when he saw the tears in yours.

"Honey, where is this coming from? We could have ordered takeout for all I cared?"

You swallowed and took a deep breath.

"My ex, they were blue collar. Worked in construction. They didn't... they thought I should do all the housework and make dinner since I sat at a desk all day. They would get... angry when I didn't or said I was too tired or it wasn't ready when they got home or I ran out of their favorite drink and... I just want you to be happy." Bucky's frown had deepened and the concern in his blue eyes had turned to anger.

"Where are they now? Who would ever do that to you?" His head turned to see if he could spot any memory of them in the apartment. To your surprise it made you laugh to see him be so protective over something that wasn't there.

"Long gone. I moved states away to leave them. It's why I've been working so much, honestly. When I switched positions I had to do it for a cut, since at the headquarters I was making more. I don't regret it for a second though." You were looking at him now, sincere. If you never moved you wouldn't have been looking for an apartment when your car overheated and you had to go to the Howling Commando. You would have never met Bucky or found an apartment a few blocks away from the bar and him.

"I'm glad you made it here too," he said finally. He wrapped his arms around you, big arms keeping you safe and his chin on your head grounding you to him.

"I know you spend every day working super hard with people you don't really like. I know you love what you do, but I would never hold any of that against you. I spend every day working with my best friends for as long as or short as I'd like. If you never cook me dinner again, I would still be happy as long as we get to sit down and eat together." He paused, and you could feel his heart beat a little faster, a shift in his posture. For the first time:

"And I love you." Your heart leapt, the tears that you had been wiping against his tshirt flowed again.

"I love you too, Bucky."

-/-/-/-/-

You texted Bucky on your way out of work, and blessedly got into your own car with air-conditioning and seatbelts. Not that you didn't trust Bucky or that you didn't like to ride with him, but it was nice to have a seat to sit in.

You began the journey home, it feeling a little longer than it had for the last few weeks when you clung to Bucky's middle with your eyes closed. You were most of the way home when a telltale rumble of motorcycles started up behind you on the long empty road. It reminded you of the first time you rode with Bucky, down this very same road when your car broke down and he took you back to the shop with him while Steve waited with the car. He had said, after securing his extra helmet to your head, that it would be only time you ever rode without the proper shoes or pants on. You had responded cheekily, since he was hot and it didn't seem like it could hurt the speed at which your car got fixed, that he was suggesting that there would be another time. He had followed that with a quick, "I have your phone number. I find another time."

The bikes were getting closer, four of them, and to your surprise Bucky wasn't with them. Steve and Sam rode on either side of you, offering salutes. You couldn't identify who the two behind were but you could tell one of them was Yelena or Natasha. It was not a regular procession, though when they did see your distinctive car when out riding, they always did stop by for a wave. Instead of leading you home, Sam and Steve guided your car to the parking lot at the Howling Commando. The fairy lights were up for the summer and a few of the regulars were already outside enjoying the weather.

"I was going to go home first you know," you whined at Steve, tossing your blazer into the passenger seat before getting out of the car.

"I think this is more important," he said, turning you away from the bar and toward the shop. The garage doors were open, but inside was obstructed by the shadows from the sunset. When you stepped in you froze. The cars and equipment had all been cleared out and a beautiful flower arrangement was across the floor, Bucky was standing a few feet away, looking nervous as the first time he came to pick you up for dinner. He spotted you and swallowed, standing up straighter as you walked towards him.

"Bucky..." You didn't have the words to say as you joined him in the array of flowers.

"Belle. I love you, I have loved you since the minute I saw you on the side of the road. From the second you wrapped your arms around me on my bike for the first time. The first night we spent together and every night since then I have known that I would spend the rest of my life with you. I promise I will make dinner every night if that's what it takes." You grinned at the little inside joke, tears pouring down your cheeks as he got down on one knee.

"Make me the happiest idiot in the world and marry me?"

"Of course I will. I love you."

[discluded]

Flex1045 x Be On Cloud Music interview highlights

On BOC Music / his own solo music

Mile is preparing to host a solo concert this year, in about 6-7 months, for VIP attendees

He has some demos of old music, but won't rush to release music since he is busy with other projects, esp acting projects, this year

He loves producing music and is looking to nurture new sounds into locally released music. He values being able to produce as as important as getting to release music

A future project will be him singing and playing guitar though unclear from my understanding of the question/translation if he means in support of Shine or not

He is hoping to recruit both female and male artists to the music label (Mile is also tired of this sausage fest...)

Upcoming BOC projects

Mile shared that BOC will have 2-3 more projects this year releasing around July-August. I believe this is aside from 4 Minutes and Shine

Shine is shooting in Q3 for release for Q4

Mile said Shine is a romcom 🥰

Mile on Apo, Apo's projects, and Apo and music

Mile chose the song Apo performed at the BOC new year count down at the last party

As of right now, there are no active plans for Apo to become an artist under BOCM / release music since he is focused on a number of acting projects. But from the way Mile phrased it, it does sound like there might be eventual plans for that to happen but just not this year

He couldn't stop gushing about Apo. I can't even do the summary justice, here's one translation:

Other cute things

The interviewer was overwhelmed by Mile looking into his eyes so intensely and got flustered and asked him to stop 🤣

The interview asked if Mile prefers to confess or secretly pine, and Mile gave a more in depth discussion about how he prefers to long pine quietly without confessing (a longer version than the pop Journey Q&A he did with Apo where he said the same thing briefly)

Mile said he didn't dare let his grandmother watch KinnPorsche because he was afraid she'd have a heart attack

He talked about his relationship with this grandmother a little and that she was a good cook but she teased him when he was younger because he liked to eat and was a pudgy kid

most importantly, he saw the bebes

Translations/details:

(i've been told Tumblr is throttling posts with a ton of out-links from showing up in the tags so :') Apologies for not listing more sources)

[mayabruhbruh]

What do you think of the possibility of Will and Chance happening? I feel like it would be really poor writing tbh but I feel like they will give Will a different love interest because they’ll try to make all of the audience „happy“ But that would just truly not align with the writing so far I feel like.

Love your analyses btw<3

THANK YOUU! That's so kind :) And great ask! This is definitely a topic that the ST fandom needs to discuss.

The default question when people have little to no hope in Byler is, well, who the hell is Will going to end up with? Because it’s become increasingly evident that they’re trying to set him up for a romance. The “im not gonna fall in love”, the “it’s not my fault you don’t like girls”, even the gif shown above. It all can be interpreted to mean that Will is going to find his person soon.

So... to be completely honest, I had no idea who Chance was until this ask popped up and I had to look him up💀. It’s been a while since I’ve been on here, so I’m a little rusty on the deep lore lmao. So, in the off chance that others might also be confused, here’s a (rare) gif of him I found.

I think that’s him with the Hawkins cap on the right. Correct me if I’m wrong.

I’m not sure where the rumors that this guy was going to become a bigger part of the show came from, but that seems highly unlikely to me. I feel like they would have either hinted at it in the fourth season (like how they’re giving Patrick here quite a sizeable role so that he’ll be memorable to us later when he gets vecnafied) or they would have announced him as a more prominent character already like how they did for s5 with Holly, that one new kid character, and also how they did Amybeth for s4. Idk, maybe it’s unreasonable to think they would have to do that, but it feels quite too out-of-the-blue. Especially for a character that would take on the role of becoming our central character’s love interest, which is a BIG DEAL. Especially if it’s queer lol.

Secondly, I firmly believe that it would be a disservice to Will’s own desires to meet someone new.

Will said this explicitly in the van scene, and as of now, we’re still under the impression that Mike is his person. Forget about Mike’s issues and feelings for a second, and think about what Will is saying here. He feels like a mistake for being different, but Mike makes him feel like he’s not a mistake at all, that he’s better for being different. Mike gives him courage to fight on. Fuck. Tbh, it makes me wonder how long he’d felt this way. As a byler, you might be inclined to think his feelings have been on for forever, but narratively, he could have easily just realized his own feelings very recently, most likely sometime between season 3 and 4. It doesn’t mean the feelings weren’t there before, but realistically neither Will nor the general audience were aware of it before now.

Moving on.

Has anyone heard of the rule of Chekhov’s gun? It’s an incredibly clever and widely-used tool in screenwriting and storytelling in general that helps to clue the watchers in for what’s to come next.

Think of Lucas’ wrist rocket in season 1. When they introduced it as a flimsy-looking, no-good weapon that he’d put too much pride in at first, it gives us a good laugh and we move on. But really, it very meticulously set us up to subconsciously anticipate to see it again later. That’s what Chekhov’s gun is all about. Set-ups, foreshadowing, hidden treasures.

Another great example would be the painting reveal of s4. Obviously, after finding out that Will was painting something, bylers immediately figured it was for Mike and BEGGED and HOPED and PLEADED that we’d be able to finally see it, but to the general audience it was just another something that they’d have to pick apart and realize was actually of importance as the season progressed. (It’s also a good way of showing that the writers are fully capable of engrossing the entire fan base and general audience in his and Mike’s story. Just knowing Will had painted something and that it was for Mike created this sense of PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IT IS AND WJATS GOING ON and whatnot that watchers are simply so susceptible to it’s insane.)

Okay, back to the van scene. Will’s confession.

Now, I’m not saying that the writers intentionally used this foreshadowing tool for us to find and understand immediately. There are plenty, plenty of instances where writers use Chekhov’s gun principle and it flies over peoples heads purposefully. What I’m trying to say is that, thematically and narratively, they would never have introduced Wills feelings for Mike if not for it to have importance to the story, or for nothing to happen with it at all. It’s a set up. And a maddeningly good one, at that. Because queer stories already do tend to fly over people’s heads, and also because there’s the added drama between Mike and Eleven that makes it seem quite impossible for any of these feelings to be addressed in the midst of such emotional chaos. But whatever. I think I’m rambling.

Basically, whether they end up together or not, whether Mike reciprocates these feelings, Will is forever established to be in love with Mike. The confession was simply too grand and emotional and earnest for him to just switch up abruptly next season when he meets someone new that he might have a better chance with. Even if there were to be a whole new arc for him where he learns to let go of Mike or something crappy like that, it would be terrible writing on their end and poor use of a well-set-up Chekhov’s gun reference. It would be like introducing the gun in the display case in scene one, then two scenes later just tucking it away into a storage closet for the remainder of the story. Like… what?

And plus, it’s HIGHLY unlikely that Will would end up with that sort of storyline next season when he’s literally WITH Mike for presumably a majority of the time (based on the set pics so far).

So that’s my debunking of the Chance rumors :) and I didn’t even get to mention how incompatible they’d be just naturally as characters. Chance, a Jason-following jock that hates Dungeons and Dragons, fantasy and nerdy things, and willingly assisted in beating up the Hellfire Club when they were trying to find Eddie. What about that at all screams Will’s type? And if you’re thinking “unconventional couple enemies to lovers”, just don’t. This isn’t a rom-com, especially for a queer plot line lol. I think it’s safe to say there’s no “chance”😉 that they will ever happen. And either way, it’d be a bummer if they did. Cus it would just be Will defeatedly settling for someone that isn’t Mike.

UGH! It makes me sad that the one thing that is firmly being teased by the writers (Will’s love playing a major role in the plot to come) is constantly being questioned and framed as different questions. “Will Mike reciprocate?” “Does this mean Mike and Eleven break up?” “Who will end up with who?” SHHH Frankly, to me this is already a win. It’s become obvious that Will having feelings for him will come up again soon, and the rest of the evidence that accounts for Mike’s end already speaks for itself, so I prefer to just sit back and watch it all unfold.

Again, thanks so much for the ask!! This was so fun to dissect and feel free to keep sending questions into my inbox. It might take me a second to post my response but I’m determined to get through all of them. Love you guys!! <3

[matan4il]

Buddie 616 meta

Maybe I’ll start with Eddie confirming something I’d already discussed in my meta posts more than once before, most recently in my 614 meta, which is that he married Shannon because she got pregnant. He heavily insinuated this to Bobby back in 217, but now he said it explicitly, to everyone, and without the same kind of weight which we saw from him in the past. I think this change is indicative of how he IS healing from the trauma of how badly his marriage failed and how guilty he’s felt over it, now that he’s capable of talking about it more lightly than he did before. I love that for our boy. ~~

Speaking of these men actually being boys, moron husbands, partners in dumbness, we got Buck and Eddie sharing one brain cell and NOT putting it to good use. Even though in the overall scheme of 911 things, that might not seem that significant, I have to say I just love seeing them like that. It’s FUN seeing them being morons who support each other in the way they try to deal with Chim thinking that just popping the question to Maddie is enough, or in Eddie supporting Buck’s dumbass suggestion of a flash mob, or just being pressed together in the fire truck ‘coz they never have any personal boundaries with each other and they don’t understand why those would even be needed (seriously, don’t think too long about how all of a sudden five people had to squeeze in the back instead of four, and OF COURSE it would be Buck and Eddie rubbing thighs together, because no other pair out of the whole team is as comfortable with each other’s bodies). This may not be the deepest part of their bond, but it IS a part of it, a consistent one, the daily partnership that’s the foundation for the big, important, profound parts. ~~

Once again, we get a demonstration of how the way Buck and Eddie are with each other is different to how they act with their other friends. Even when Eddie is exasperated with Buck, he never actually gets upset, he just tries to get Buck to focus, like we saw him in 516. But with Ravi, Eddie does kinda snap.

Buck as well, when he hears some unpleasant truths about Madney from Hen, there’s no fondness underlining their talk, as much as we know that they DO love each other and have a sibling-like relationship. But compare that to how insufferably affectionate the glances that Buddie exchanged in 504 were as Eddie did essentially the same thing for Buck. ~~

And then of course, we see how Hen has Chimney’s back in this ep, putting his well being first, but she does end up hurting him. They talk it over, and within the same ep she apologizes, he forgives her, everything is resolved, and they move. It’s lovely, but think about the difference in intensity between this and what Buddie went through back in s3. Buck files the lawsuit that would stop him from seeing Eddie in 304. Then the very reserved Eddie has a public meltdown, in the middle of a store, and right in front of his colleagues, because he can’t deal with Buck not being in his life. In fact, that’s the final straw that makes Eddie turn to street fighting. Not only that, because the intensity of his feelings overwhelms him, he doesn’t even directly express his hurt, he uses Chris to convey how much Eddie himself is missing Buck. When Buck realizes just how much pain he unintentionally caused, he wants to apologize, but Eddie is too hurt to be able to hear him out right away. It’s only in 306 that they finally talk, Eddie forgives Buck and then we get the beauty of their hug. But this is STILL not the final piece, no. The show will get back to this in the kitchen scene in 309, where Buck shows Eddie he’s worth apologizing to a second time (even though he’s not even asking Buck to), and the final shot of this is the domestic image of Buddifer on the couch, playing video games together. This is when we know that all is TRULY forgiven, when we get to see them once more as a family unit. Because that’s what they are on top of being best friends, like Hen and Chimney. ~~

I’ll point out that Madney and Buddie paralleling is not new. This has been an ongoing theme since Buck and Chim’s new love interests were both introduced in 201, and since Madney got their onset in 206. The very fact that Maddie thinking Chim’s cute is revealed through a dialogue between the Buckley siblings that also indicates Buck sees Eddie in the same light says it all. I have also gone on about how Buck and Maddie served as truth tellers, voicing their sibling’s crush back to them, I have talked about how Madney were friends first, incredibly domestic friends with their own intertwined routine, before they became explicitly romantic, I wrote a whole meta post about the parallels between Madney and Buddie in 512, and now I can add to this. Because Madney easily fell into the comfort of domestic life, Chim told us this week that got in the way of them stopping to make their commitment official. That’s in a sense Buddie’s story, too. They’ve been building their lives and family unit together without even clocking that they can and should stop to figure out what this thing between them is, and commit to it.

~~ (my weekly meta posts) (my Buddie gifs) (all of my content)

~~ ~~ My tag list will follow in the reblog, please let me know if you wanna be added/removed here.

~~ I’m so thankful to the amazing @whosoldherout​​ for the meta gifs she does each week! They’re always challenging, and you always manage to knock it out of the park!

~~ Thank you to anyone supporting these meta posts. I could never express enough how grateful I am and that they continue to exist thanks to you!

[galactiquest]

Feral for affection uncanny vash or knives.

🌻have a good day

Hi there Sunflower Anon! I'm going to call you that, especially if you come back again with another sunflower. Thanks for the ask!!

I've seen the uncanny Vash and Knives stuff blow up in popularity. I Was there. Though sometimes I feel it's disingenuous to call them uncanny--that's our human interpretation of their forms. Maybe something more along the lines of primal? Well, syntax aside, I think it's a super fun idea to lean more into the alien ideals of Plants. I have plenty of my own headcanons for how the two look and operate, but, let's not focus on that right now. Let's just get affectionate!

Vash and Knives x Reader: Affections (Uncanny ver.)

Content Warnings: General uncanny or possibly unnerving content ahead. Features like multiple eyes/limbs/etc. are discussed, and there may be an implicit body horror to it. No violence, though! Just cuteness aside from all that!

Vash

I think Vash is pretty hesitant at first to show you any sort of uncanny parts of himself. I mean, we already know how he feels about his scars--he really doesn't want to scare you off, especially once you two have become close.

But if you can slowly and gently coax him out of his shell, if you can convince him that yes, you'll love every part of him, no matter how ugly he may think those parts are, he'll eventually relent.

And at first, it's just a few features that pop out. It might be reflective, glowy eyes in the nighttime, or fingers that have grown out just a little too long for the average man, or even a few spiny scutes along his back.

Once he's comfortable, though? He lets it all hang out. Not like that--he just allows his true form to come through. And there's lots of limbs and even some sharp edges to deal with... But if you're patient, you'll find he's maybe even more affectionate like this!

Cuddles end up the best because now instead of two (sometimes one, if he has the prosthetic off) arms around you, it's six (more like five!) and you are ever-so-tightly squeezed against his body. He also has a very comfortable temperature, so you never have to worry about being too hot or too cold. It's just right!

Purring. Yes, I know it's cliché, I know that it's mentioned in every imagine, but come on. It's so cute. I don't think it's like animal purring, though, maybe more like an engine. Or perhaps more akin to a larger cat purring. Less cutesy, more... well, rumbly. Sometimes it makes his whole body vibrate.

With his extra appendages, he loves to tickle you. Prepare to be bombarded with tickles. He's able to dance across your skin so fast that you can barely catch him in time to try and swat him away.

Kisses! He tries to be so careful with kisses since his jaw can unhinge and all that. And lots of teeth get in the way. But if you don't mind that... Or perhaps, if you're into that... Well, you can definitely start experimenting. But he's still as gentle as possible.

Knives

Now this is someone who's not afraid to show you their true self. Knives is going to quickly reveal his primal form to you. If you can't learn to get comfortable with it, he's obviously not for you. (It begs the question as to why he keeps a more humanoid form too--maybe it's just easier to get around in human-sized spaces with?)

No matter your initial reaction, I think he's going to make some kind of comment. You get scared? Typical human. You like it? Disgusting. You act as utterly neutral as possible? Don't lie to yourself. There's seriously no winning with him.

But with whatever charm (or perhaps sheer persistence) you give, the two of you are a pair now. And if there's one word to describe how he acts with you? It's protective.

If you two are ever out and about, he's got a sharp, bright wing curled over and around you, shielding from peering eyes. On the outside, it's all points and blades (and knives?) but on the inside, only for you to see, there's some softer, more downy feathers. Just so you won't rust up the blades, whatever you say, Knives.

His conscious self isn't keen to showing affection, but his subconscious body sure is. Expect a few tingly vines trying to wrap around and hold your hand, or a tail-like appendage that rests on your waist/shoulders, or a wing tickling your cheek. He swears he isn't doing it intentionally.

Unlike his brother, he's not a super affectionate guy, as stated above, so don't expect much in the way of kisses. Unless the two of you are alone, and he's in a better-than-usual mood. Then his cravings might get the better of him, and he might just tackle on top of you to bite a chunk out of you--I mean, get a few sloppy kisses in.

Overall? In front of others, relatively distant. Behind closed doors? You're becoming his. Tight tendrils keep you close at night, teeth nibble at the nape of your neck, the sharp edges of leaves or feathers tease your skin but never come too close. He's too precise to actually ever hurt you.

End Notes: I think their "true" forms are something akin to an insectoid/angelic/plant-like mix, where it's sort of indescribable, archaic, tangled and messy. Maybe I ought to draw them and show you all...~

Also, there REALLY need to be more 1998 Knives gifs, or I'm about to pony up and just make a buttload of my own.

Okay, last note. Sorry this took me a while! I just moved back into college and my first week was busy! (^人^)

[smtown-tourist]

Ever since the AMIGO practice video dropped, it’s been going around again how killer SHINee’s live performance skills are, but what I don’t really see much of is people discussing why. Why are SHINee’s live performance skills so good? How were these five ROOKIES able to outshine their seniors in a skill they’ve been doing for so much longer?

The answer is simple: Timing. SHINee, as rookies, learned the valuable skill of timing when it comes to performing live.

Now, I know what you might be thinking: of course they’re good at timing - how else are they gonna be able to stay on track? And you’re right. It does seem like an obvious answer yet I don’t think you realize how important timing plays into singing and dancing live.

We all know that it’s hard to keep your voice steady when dancing, but what SHINee has learned is to make their voices flow with the choreography. In order to do that, it’s all about rhythm and timing. If for even a fraction of a second their timing is off, it’s going to throw off their rhythm, therefore throw off their ability to steady their voice. Same goes for timing when they need to breathe. Singing and dancing is a cardio workout. If they can’t time their inhales and exhales correctly, then they’ll be out of breath and unable to sing when their turn comes.

A lot of that has to do with the structure of the choreography. It’s been analyzed before that K-pop choreographies will be structured in two ways: either based on the rhythm of the instrumentals or the rhythm of the lyrics. SHINee’s choreographies, if you’ve ever paid close attention, often have the dance moves lining up with the rhythm of the lyrics. Sometimes all three will line up, but not often will you find their choreographies solely following the rhythm of the instrumentals. Again, that is because it’s harder to keep your voice steady when your voice isn’t following the movement of your body. It’s a balancing act, and what happens if your timing is off? You lose that balance, i.e. your voice becomes unsteady.

This is also why SHINee is always able to stay so in-sync when performing: because of their timing. It becomes a domino effect if they get their timing wrong. It’s not just about staying in-sync with one another for aesthetic purposes, it’s making sure they have the timing right so that their voices can flow with the choreography and they can breathe at the required times. Timing is the aspect that binds everything together.

So, yes, SHINee are great singers, great dancers, great at being in-sync, and have great breath control and those things combined together are what make them such great live performers. But those skills would be useless if it weren’t for their ability to time everything correctly.

I hope my analysis shed some lights on things, and if you were already aware of everything I stated above, great! I’m glad we’re on the same page. Of course, this is not meant to bash any of the hard work SHINee put in to perfecting their vocals, their dancing skills, their teamwork, any of that. It was simply an observation that I made to help everyone look deeper than the surface level of a performance.

Sometimes I think we get a little swept up in the theatricality of K-pop to realize that so much more goes into it and knowing the timing of every tiny piece is what binds it all together. SHINee has mastered the art of timing, which is what allows their talents to shine the way that they do on stage. In my opinion, it’s truly remarkable and shows their dedication to perfecting their craft.

[daystarvoyage]

Luz Shouldve Been Dressed By A POC (Person Of Color Or Luz Batista To Show Better Cultural & POC Reprensation)

Hello Tumblers, This is kyoko cane of daystar voyage, as a proud black person who’s genderqueer who makes content creations On Pop culture such as Cosplay & drag, I do talk on Animation & Family Entertainment So glad to get this topic cause what we see on tv can be put into reality, Now (Disclaimer)

I will not accept hate on the daystar voyage anyone who can’t handle different opinions, ship whatever (unless legal) if not walk out or off this spaceship into a asteroid belt and black hole

Don’t hate appreciate.

One more thing I do love my girl Luz pilot outfits, there goals however wish they had time to put patterns into her clothes often, like I said in my hootview

However the female cast had a better closet then her, and I did discuss that in my video, for some time they did make her dress in a shonen archetype, (which I made a post about her hair) or an spicy Latina Which of of course personality wise too, (cause she’s made to be the gender non confirming character) but excuse all that cause in a way, the staff shoulda hired someone whos Either Afro, African American Or Latin to dress this girl.

Oh boy now that im done rewatching The Owl House there’s so much in store soon anyway,

I do feel its time to start this short post, I have a fashion hootview which is the intermission so there’s still a lot to come meantime, finished my rewatch of The Owl House as an animation lover,

Lets discuss this topic at hand,

2020s animators need to take notes on costuming & style tips to make characters stand out in environments and to treat there characters better in fashion or color coordination,

yes you can have a color coded character and not rely of a main palette to be able to bring out there features & complexion,

Animators need to take notes, how to properly show kids & there audience that good clothing could be put onto a character of any occasion & not have to rely on sexuality or Stereotype (Disney Programs have a hit or miss on certain shows.)

while proper fashion can do justice, that goes into making a franchise and making a product to sell for marketability in retail & consumers.

if the character or product can be sold with a great design if executed flawless by character, design, costuming, and the app that comes within the series,

This goes to the fandom cause there might be future artistsor small indie creators reading this who probably never read, or look up fashion brands, magazines either hot couture or brand clothing and don’t have that knowledge But that shouldn’t stop you from being able to experiment with different color palettes on what goes into your art.

The fandom needs a wake up call that not only is everything’s perfect and people have the right to critic and criticize a show or any form of art.

cause fandoms today has a self righteous way of bullying others of different opinions and ostracizing others and ithas to stop,

Here’s a quick tv trope in color-coded characters, & a Toonsmag article on fashion in animation.

Marketability is a important factor, industries rely on that to make the money off of that series, be a cartoons or projects,

it impacts the character and representation that kids see when they purchase said item and teaching kids, see good representation within media can matter if done right.

Especially POCs if executed well however

DONW BELOW in some cases miraculous ladybug fumbles it hard, at one point had all the poc of color (EXAMPLE limited to alya and nino if not max be lighter tones on there merch.)

You know lighting character's skin tones like Alya and other brown or dark skin characters, on their products & merch (bad ethnic representation award goes to them).

Not to mention the whole Vas underpaid controversy, that’s been discussed countless times.

(still disappointed about there business decisions)

I appreciate the love of anyone who can view and read this article if you gotten this far,

thanks for reading make sure to check my Tumblr and YouTube vlog cause so much of this particular series I’m gonna debunk

The show had a-lot going for it however feel flat including in the fashion department along miraculous ladybug that’s another thing to be discuss OH BOY so anyway

here’s an example of the video game art of Guilty Gear showing great costume progress years later

always educate yourself cause I do want my platform to show variety on what I offer creatively and semi-education-wise to be able to let people be inspired and that you don't need to follow trends, thank you very much seeya on the next space voyage.

[jimin-bangtan]

Jimin's SGMB🌺 - The Comedy

Recently Jimin’s pre-released song, Smeraldo Garden Marching Band [SGMB], was revealed.  It is the 1st official pre-released song* from his 2nd solo album called MUSE. His first solo album was a 6-song EP called FACE. It actually had 7 songs because it had a hidden track called Letter (Dear.Army) that was never released for streaming.  It was the final song in the sequence of 7 that appears to be an intimate communication to a loved one.  MUSE is also a 7-song EP that really can be looked at as an extension of FACE.  It includes the song SGMB, which seems to be an intimate communication to a loved one - except this one is not hidden - and it can be streamed by the world.

After his debut solo album, FACE, Jimin promised a lighter album next time. FACE was about heavier topics as he reflected on a dark experience and his ultimate resolution and growth from it.  MUSE begins with Jimin expressing and showing that he is feeling happier and lighter, and he’s ready to move on to reflect on what inspires him in his life. While FACE looked at circumstances that weighed him down, MUSE seems to be looking at things that lift him up. 

The video for SGMB was colorful, happy, cute (the word I heard almost all reviewers use), and funny. Some described it as silly or childish, but that was the point.  Jimin has a great sense of humor. He and I have a similar sense of humor, so I get his jokes when they seem to pass over some. It was a delight to see him able to really show this genuine side of his personality in his work, which he has repeatedly said was a goal for him: to show more sides of himself.

From the outlandish announcer’s voice at the start, which was most undeniably Jimin, to the cute “adlibs” throughout, that were not throw away lines but were important contributions to the message, the humor was sprinkled throughout the song. “Let’s talk about us.” “Just for you” “Let’s go!” “All for you” “Yes, sir.”  And one final adlib just for fun “Take it to the bridge.” Ha!  These bits were added with funny sounding voices that made you chuckle but also made them stand out.

The comedy continued with the inclusion of the remaining actual members of the Smeraldo Garden Marching Band, who had never been in a video before (PDogg, GHSTLOOP, Evan).  The imagery showed Jimin popping bubbles, making expressive faces, operating as a relationship guru, and yanking in his reluctant collab. rapper, Loco, at the end to dance along. Unlike BTS’s Blood, Sweat, & Tears video, you were not left scratching your head then having to do a deep dive on the meaning of what you just saw. You were just left with the lyrics and what they might mean.  In spite of the playful hilarity, most people picked up that it is, in fact, a love song.

When I was first introduced to BTS’s music, in spite of not understanding much of the Korean lyrics, I enjoyed the melody, rhythms, and energy of the tunes.  Even the slow songs sounded uplifting and bright - then I began reading lyrics. One of the aspects of BTS that trapped me as a devoted fan was that they were speaking about serious topics within their exceptionally musical songs. Some of the lyrics were even dark, when the song still sounded danceable and musically light.  Again think Blood, Sweat, & Tears.

Jimin used that same playbook for SGMB, and perhaps for the entire, yet unreleased, album. It was a light and melodious song with a playful video, but he was saying something significant and important under all the fluff. Many will dismiss SGMB as a fan song or as a fun, empty song, but I feel, like many of BTS’s songs, there was more meaning beneath the surface.

Notice that the dancing was also light, and the choreography easier than what we know Jimin is capable of executing.  I feel the lyrics were so important to Jimin that he didn’t want to distract from them.  The next day everyone would have been discussing his dancing and not the meaning of the song.  Jimin wore no accessories and a plain black suit. He even used a plain, black microphone with no bedazzling gems. He seemed to not want to take anything away from listeners and viewers paying attention to the song and the symbolism in the video.

One reviewer even noticed that Jimin's voice was produced noticeably above the instrumentation. Also, Jimin sang Live for this performance video. I have not seen this done often, or at all, for a video that is introducing a song. I feel that may have been an important, significant decision Jimin made so that the first time listeners heard the words, he was actually saying them with his own voice, from his own mouth.

Fans knew Jimin had left additional music behind while he had to step away to complete his military duty.  Still, many were surprised that it was given so early in the time frame.  Due to the unwavering support of Jimin’s fans, who he adores and appreciates tremendously, Smeraldo Garden Marching Band is doing very well on the charts and with recognition.  His album is to be released July 19th, and, like his first solo album, it is highly anticipated. Jimin again defies the expectation of what genre to do, what lyrics to sing, and what direction he should go.  I can’t wait to see what other daring attempts he has in store.

MUSE July 19th.  Stream SGMB.

[the-conversation-pod]

GMMTV Breakfast Club: On 23.5 and Only Boo!

AND WE'RE BACK!

School's in at GMMTV, but we gotta put two series in detention for not fulfilling the assignment. The actors were charming, but the finishes were...rough. Ben, NiNi and Ginny talk 23.5 and Only Boo, the merits of high school stories, and the specific challenges of telling stories about queer high schoolers.

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

00:01:15 - Introduction: Two High School Shows from GMMTV 00:02:18 - 23.5: Early Reactions 00:14:18 - 23.5: Supporting Characters 00:21:27 - 23.5: Frustration with the Writing and Execution 00:33:42 - 23.5: Final Arc and Ratings 00:38:42 - Only Boo! 00:48:06 - Only Boo: Popping the Bubble 00:58:42 - Only Boo: If You're Gonna Do An Idol Story, Commit 01:05:06 - Only Boo: Final Thoughts and Ratings 01:08:45 - Outro: High School Blues

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes (Coming soon thanks to @wen-kexing-apologist). When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

00:00:00 - Welcome

NiNi

Welcome to The Conversation About BL, aka The Brown Liquor Podcast.

Ben

And there it is. I’m Ben.

NiNi

I’m NiNi.

Ben

And we’re you’re drunk Caribbean uncle and auntie here sitting on the porch in the rocking chairs.

NiNi

Four times a year we pop in to talk about what’s going on in the BL world.

Ben

We shoot the shit about stories and all the drama going into them. I review from a queer media lens.

NiNi

And I review from a romance and drama lens.

Ben

So if you like cracked-out takes and really intense emotional analysis…

NiNi

If you like talking about artistry, industry, and the discourse…

Ben

And if you generally just love simping…

NiNi

There is a lot of simping on this podcast…

Ben

We are the show for you!

00:01:15 Introduction: Two High School Shows from GMMTV

Ben 

And we're back. This week we're going to be discussing 23.5 and Only Boo. We brought our friend Ginny along as usual. Say hi, Ginny.

Ginny 

Hey folks!

NiNi 

We are talking high school from GMMTV. Ben and I, in the VIIB Awards, we discussed that it might feel like GMMTV does high school a lot, but they don't actually. So it was really interesting to see them delve into these high school stories with, let's say, mixed results.

Ben 

It's kind of weird that GMMTV went from, like, not really doing high school to having two shows running simultaneously. It's kind of surprising from them, honestly.

NiNi 

Lest we forget to point it out, 23.5 is also GMMTV's first GL. I think in terms of that, that they handled it pretty well as a GL.

00:02:18 23.5: Early Reactions

NiNi

Ben, what is 23.5 about?

Ben 

23.5 is a high school GL about a young woman named Ongsa who is moving from Phuket to Bangkok. She's a fan of this girl on Instagram and happens to run into her very early in her new time at the school, develops a crush on her, accidentally befriends her through her IG, but gets presumed to be a guy, and then proceeds to high key catfish this girl [laughs] sorting out her feelings about whether or not she, could possibly like her.

She lives with her parents, her older sister, and their cousin who's the same age as her. Her cousin's very much an easy autism read who ends up in her own romance with her big cousin's friend. We end up in this show dealing with Ongsa's complicated feelings of self-worth and how in her tendency to put her own self down, she kind of lets down the people around her. At least I think that's what the show's trying to do.

Ginny, why don't you walk us through how you felt in anticipation of the show after it got announced a very long time ago.

Ginny 

So long ago. So Milk and Love, the two lead actresses, were, of course, the side couple in Bad Buddy. So it was no surprise that they were announced as the lead couple of the first GMMTV GL. I was very excited just to see GMMTV finally moving into this space. It's been good to see more studios open to producing GLs and GMMTV being one of the biggest, definitely wanted to see them do it. So, without really caring much about what the story was going to be, I just wanted to see them do a GL and do a decent job. I was not super invested in, oh, is this going to be a plot or a premise that really appeals to me? I was just like, let's have some girls fall in love and make a good story. 

It was a longer run up than I think a lot of people wanted. There was a lot of disgruntlement, some conspiracy theory feelings about it that I don't really hold to. I do think they were giving as much to this show as they do to their big flagship BL stories. Was very excited and also nervous tuning into the first episode because this clearly was going to be a weathervane for them to decide how much to invest in the GL side going forward.

NiNi 

It was over a year that we've waited and waited and waited for this. They had a really long shoot schedule. They were shooting this thing for an inordinate amount of time, and I think that for me, added to the anticipation. Because it felt like they were taking their time with it, so I was very excited about that. I like Milk, I like Love, I like June, I like View. I was really looking forward to watching all of them really get into this with a director and a team that I had enjoyed. This is from Fon Kanittha, and Fon did 10 Years Ticket, which is one of my favorite things that GMMTV has done. 

Ben, what about you? How were you anticipating this? What were you looking forward to about it? What were some of your concerns coming into it?

Ben 

I was admittedly really nervous about this show going into it. We had drama in the reactions to this show in just the original casting choices.Fourth and Gemini were originally announced as part of the cast for this, and then, looks like GMMTV shuffled some stuff because they wanted to prioritize the boys' availability for a different project because My School President was received apparently really well, at least enough for GMMTV to make some different decisions.

But there was a lot of drama in the English language reactions about not wanting BL paired boys in this at all. So I was worried from the get go that we were already having fights about the market that they were trying to pull in. And I was really nervous about what GMMTV was gonna do with this. I've bitched on this podcast quite a few times about when I think BL doesn't necessarily care that much about how queer their boys read and sometimes ship is more important than some sort of queer coming of age beat that they really wanna hit. I was really nervous about what that might look like for a GL because we don't have a framework for what that looks like. there's actually not a great deal of lesbian coming of age romance internationally, even, to pull from, and even within Thailand there's only a couple of projects that I can really refer to from like a lesbian film history. And most of those are for college girls. So there were a lot of big question marks for me going into this, so I actually went in with not a whole lot of expectation from this. I'm admittedly not familiar with Fon's work. I did not watch 10 Years Ticket. But I knew that folks like NiNi were really excited and wanted to see what Fon doing a GL would look like. 

So, there was a lot of anticipation and hope about what it could be, but I actually went in with very few expectations about what it might look like as a result.

NiNi 

So, Ginny, having those expectations and coming into the show, what were your first impressions of 23.5? What are some of the first things that you picked up on and maybe really enjoyed about it?

Ginny 

I loved the beginning. There were a couple different ways I was afraid that it might go wrong. One was that it would just feel like a gender flipped BL. Another was that it would be like overly softened and pastel in, especially what is usually labeled sapphic romance these days, frequently things are all very soft and delicate.

NiNi 

[laughs] Vaseline all over the lens and, like, nobody's talking too loud, yeah.

Ginny

Yeah, and I like to see women in stories, and especially women falling in love in stories feel as much like real people with all of the edges that real people have as boys get to do. So a thing that just thrilled me from episode 1 was what a mess Ongsa is. Ongsa played by Milk, incredible performance. Whatever criticisms, and we have many of the show, I think we can all agree that Milk was wonderful in this role and really did a phenomenal job of playing this tense and awkward and intensely self-conscious teenage lesbian that I saw so many people I know in. The way that she falls on the floor after having a phone message with her crush that's a little bit awkward but also positive and the way she would just flail around. The way it felt like she didn't quite know what to do with her body, like she's still growing and gangly and awkward, was just so beautifully done and I really enjoyed it. And it really did feel distinctly like girls as opposed to just, we're gonna do a BL but with wigs on.

I can't even put a finger on it, but there were so many little details that I was like, yes, this feels like young girls falling in love. The way that you feel about a pretty girl in school that you can barely even stand to talk to, and you feel like this giant gangly monster and she's this otherworldly gorgeous creature. So many of those nuances, especially in the earlier episodes, were just beautifully done and I loved them so much.

NiNi 

I feel like one of the things that helped contribute to that feel was the wardrobe. From the time I saw all the ways they were dressed, I was just like, this is what tropical girls in high school dressed like. There's a lot of t-shirts and shorts.

Ginny 

Yes!

NiNi 

It's not fancy, it's not done up. You're at home and you're chilling and you're wearing a t -shirt and some running shorts and maybe you've got socks on because your feet are cold for some reason. It made me think of growing up back in Trinidad because this is how it is. It felt really real. It felt like, okay, they understand girls.

Ginny 

Yes. There's one scene where they're running around the school at night for reasons—they shouldn't be there—but they're all in their little t-shirts. And it's like this slumber party feeling of excitement. And you're close to this person that you have a crush on. And somehow the wardrobe just made it all feel so much more like, yes, I've been there. I know what that feels like.

NiNi 

Ben, what about you? What are some of the things that you enjoyed when you started watching the show?

Ben

I was relieved that Ongsa already seemed to know that she liked girls. And so we get to enjoy Milk playing this human disaster of a lesbian in the early episodes. I often feel like there's a tension with some of the actors about their image. And some of them seem to struggle with having to be cringy or kind of gross. And Milk is not one of them. It's why I think a lot of her characters have such a believable quality to them. The way they move, they feel like they're present in the space. They don't feel necessarily like they're aware of the camera. They're just so focused on what they're trying to feel in the moment. 

I rarely have trouble accessing Milk's characters across the various performances we've been lucky enough to have from her. And I really liked her in the early stages. I liked how she played the absolute mess that was her character. The way she was struggling with same-sex attraction and the idea that reciprocity was not something that was accessible to her. That's a very common queer feeling that I think was captured really well. So I really understood Ongsa's early hesitancy when it came to clearing things up with Sun. And I thought that was really well done.

NiNi 

I feel like I always end up with the 'I as well!' But I too am here to praise Milk. I have enjoyed Milk as an actor. She hasn't had a lot to do yet, but with this role, I feel like she nailed it on from minute one, the very first frame that she's in, I a hundred percent believe her. I believe everything about her character. I believe the feelings that her character has. I believe that she believes that she is this awkward loser who's never gonna have friends or anybody. And I also believe when she stops believing that. 

There's some quality to Milk and her acting—maybe it's the ability to go for the cringy without being too worried about how she looks—she nailed on that character. A hundred percent believable from beginning to end, even through some of the wobbles that we're gonna talk about later on in terms of the story. There was never a point in time where I did not believe Milk as Ongsa and that this is how Ongsa would react to these things happening in her life.

00:14:18 23.5: Supporting Characters

NiNi

Let's talk a little bit about some of the other characters. We've got Milk playing Ongsa, and then we've got Love playing Sun. I struggled a little bit with Sun? I think that it was good casting to have Love play Sun, because this idea of this girl who is so sweet and cute and gorgeous, this girl that Ongsa would absolutely fall in love with, I totally bought that from Love. But I feel like the story didn't expect much more of her? I truly enjoyed Love's performance when she was given stuff to do.

Ginny 

Yeah, I agree. There were moments later in the series where we got to see her dig in and give us something more than this very sweet, kind, and pretty love interest character. I was like, “See, she can do it. Why didn't you give her more to do earlier?” It's hard to talk about her performance because they didn't give her very much to do and the writing was pretty shaky on her character, I think. 

View—playing Aylin the cousin—I've always been a huge fan of View's acting. She's never not nailed a role as far as I've seen and she was also a delight in this.

Ciize, I thought was great. Also sadly underused, but where she was, she really shone. Even though she's smaller than everybody else, she is the alpha. She's the class president and the older sister. Very tired and keeping everybody in shape. Enjoyed her role a lot.

I don't have a lot to say about June.

Ben

Oop! [all laugh] 

Ginny

Sorry, June!

Ben 

What do you have to say about June? Well, she was there. [laughs] Damn.

NiNi 

I find June as an actor quite accessible a lot of the time, but in this I wasn't sure what she was supposed to be? I feel like her characterization wasn't clear and because of that I didn't know where to land on her performance. I feel like I enjoyed it, but then also it felt, not wobbly exactly, but more confused.

Ginny 

I think there was a similar issue as with Love's character, Sun, where they were both there to be the love interest for the awkward, weird character, and they weren't given anything else to do except to be sweet and accepting towards the awkward, weird character. That's a shame. I haven't seen June in anything else, so that's why I don't have anything to say about her. 

Ben 

Oh, did you not watch Dangerous Romance?

Ginny 

I did not. 

NiNi 

Stop it right now. 

Ben 

Did you know?

NiNi

Stop it right [laughs] that a windmill—

[Ben and NiNi laugh]

Ginny 

Somehow, I do know that. [laughs]

NiNi 

That's never gonna get old.

Ben 

I will always make time for windmill jokes on this podcast.

[NiNi and Ginny laugh]

NiNi 

June was also in 10 Years Ticket. View and June were together in 10 Years Ticket and that's why I think they were also cast for this, because their characters in 10 Years Ticket were shipped together and I completely understand why. Even though they were not an actual couple in 10 Years Ticket, the energy was there. So I understand how they ended up paired together. So it was very strange that they went from a really solid, I thought, pairing in 10 Years Ticket to something here that felt so, to me in the end, wobbly.

Ginny 

Well, the problem is it was one-sided. Aylin was a great character and Luna, June's character, was just kind of there and they had a weird moment late in the series that kinda soured me on their whole story. But earlier they were very fun and good together. It was just that Luna was kind of just a pleasing backdrop to Aylin's whole situation.

Ben 

I don't think the casting team knows why most of the cast is even in this show. ‘Cause you have a lot of really talented people who are doing the best with the direction that they're being given on the day that they were filming. But just like every one of these episodes, as we'll get into, felt like it was internally fine, but not part of what came before or after it in a really consistent or coherent way, I think Love and June suffer the most for that. 

I think Love's actually really funny and really talented, but I don't think she knew what she was supposed to be doing for most of the show. She felt like she was lost in a lot of her scenes, it just does not feel very grounded. I don't think Love understood Sun, and I don't know that that's necessarily her fault either.

I think June is fine in terms of her ability to work with View but it was kind of a weird set of performances to watch. 

Let me talk bout the rest of these fucking side characters. This show had t4t teacher yuri.

NiNi 

The show had teachers in the school. Two of those teachers are being played by Golf and Godji. And these two teachers are supposed to be having a little side romance. I love a teacher side romance in a school show. However. Dot dot dot.

Ben

It's really frustrating because there was a real opportunity for these two women to sort of model what these younger characters could have. There's the whole hapless quality that Golf's character BamBam has that is probably meant to mirror what Ongsa has kinda going on. But I don't really know that they ever figured out something useful to do with them. It just feels like another beat happening. It doesn't feel like it's in sync with any sort of storytelling that's going on here.

Ginny 

It felt to me like it was just there to be there. There's t4t, yuri, or transbians as my friend likes to say— 

Ben 

TRANSBIANS!

[Ben and NiNi laugh]

NiNi 

I love that! Transbians! That is awesome.

Ginny 

[laughs] It felt like they're saying, “Oh, there's transbians, and that's enough. We don't have to actually make them have, like, a coherent story or more than a few cute moments here and there. I remember distinctly the episode where I realized what was supposed to be happening is this modeling thing. And it was in episode, like, 10 or something. It was so far into the series. But it just didn't come through early enough to have any kind of an impact.

I do like that they gave us those two teachers. I'm glad I would like us to get more transbians. [laughs] But I wish they'd done a better job.

00:21:27 23.5: Frustration with the Writing and Execution

NiNi 

I feel like we're dancing around a little bit like where we think that some of the criticisms of the story are coming from, so let's dive into that. I feel like the beginning of the story, that first arc of Ongsa basically catfishing Sun, I felt like that arc was really strong. Like, I understood what was happening there. And then it gets squishy in the middle once it's obvious to Sun that Ongsa is this person that she's been talking to the whole time that she thought was a guy. 

I feel like once that happens, the show starts getting interested in other things that had nothing to do with what had gone before. It wasn't following on from that first arc. And then somehow at the end they kinda try to dovetail back to that first arc in certain ways while also doing a third arc that doesn't really work? 

It feels disjointed and disconnected. It feels like in each episode they knew what they wanted to accomplish, but the episodes themselves don't link together into a coherent story.

Ginny 

For me, it felt like right up through the reveal that Ongsa was Earth, it felt coherent and I was with it, and at that point, I was feeling like this is a really solid show. And then it felt like they did about four or five episodes that, each one of them belonged to a different story. Each episode was a coherent story in itself, but did not feel very connected to what came before or what came afterward or much of the established characterization. And then at the end they did kind of tie some of the emotional impact of that big deception and reveal in, and Love got to actually do some good acting as Sun talked to Ongsa about her frustrations about how Ongsa kept holding back in this relationship. Which was great, but I was already so spun around like, what ride am I on anymore, because of the four or five filler feeling episodes, that it just really marred the impact.

Ben 

I agree with you there, especially when it comes to Love getting to act later on. I find myself very frustrated with this show's unwillingness to let Sun be mad for more than half an episode. I need, like, a really good boil for a character. I need somebody to be irritated as fuck. I really like when somebody's just fucking pissed about some shit that somebody did. A lot of these shows, I have found from GMMTV, really struggle with that. They're constantly worried about selling ship. So they don't want the characters to be upset with each other for very long. 

But it means that Sun doesn't really feel very human for me. She has such a super delayed reaction to Ongsa's big lie that I was just not exactly feeling her shift. I was just kinda like, okay, I guess. We shoulda done this a couple of weeks ago, but whatever, at least we're sorta getting it now.

I don't, also, understand—why is everyone here? What is the point of AJ's character, Ton? Why is Euro in this if he's not gonna score with one of the twins? Why is Ford here? What was the point of this little gay boy subplot that they put in this? I don't know what they were going for here.

NiNi 

Going back to the Sun thing, I think that the idea they were trying to get across was that Sun was burying a lot of things that then came out in this well of frustration. Part of her character is to be this nice, sweet girl. And nice, sweet girls, they let things go. I feel like that's what they wanted to do with her character, but I don't feel like they wrote her character in that way. The character doesn't feel like a character who is burying things. The character feels like a character who has let things go.

And then with all the other stuff that was happening, because there was so much coming at us. There was this whole idea of Alpha being the big sister and the pressures that that put on her. There was this idea of the teachers feeling pressured to do the best that they could by these students. There was whatever was going on with AJ's character. I have no idea what that was about. And that little runner with AJ's character and Earn's character, Charoen and Ton, I still have no idea what any of that was about.

Ginny 

No idea.

Ben 

I don't like it! That's for damn sure.

[Ginny laughs]

NiNi 

Did not like it. No clue what it was about. AJ, you need to call your agent because they're not doing well by you this year.

There's just all this churn happening in the middle of the story that has nothing to do with what happened before, nothing to do with what's happening after, all is coming out of the blue. But in another show would have really worked, like the Alpha stuff, the big sister stressed out stuff. 

There is a way in which that could have worked, but they didn't really put any emphasis on that sisterly relationship between Ongsa, Aylin, and Alpha and how that might have been altered by the fact that Ongsa and Alpha have been living apart because Ongsa has been living in Phuket with their dad and Alpha has been living in Bangkok with their mom and now the family's back together. What does that look like, now having to take care of your little sister again when you had gotten unaccustomed to doing that? The whole fact that Alyn is their cousin who's living with them. Why is she living with them? What does this mean? How is she integrating into the family? None of that stuff is really touched on. It's a little bit touched on, but not really. It feels like they wanted to tackle Alpha as a character and all these stresses that she feels, but they're not actually showing us the stresses. So it feels like it comes out of nowhere. 

And then everything that happens with Euro's character and Ford's character—just excise that from the show. Why is it even there? Why are they there? Why did they get out of bed and come to set? Somebody explain that to me.

Ben 

Every single week I was like, “Here's how Euro can still win.”

[Ben and Ginny laugh]

Ginny 

To be clear, because this confused me for a while, for Ben, Euro winning is not Euro getting a love interest. Euro winning is Euro being with AJ, specifically.

Ben 

He just needs to kiss one of the twins and I'll be satisfied.

NiNi 

We are big Euro lovers on this podcast. We think he's a great actor who has been overlooked and underutilized and we want to see him win in every way possible. Every way, including getting to kiss whoever he wants—boys, girls, whatever. Let him have it.

Ben 

It always feels like it comes back to ship when it comes to GMMTV. If we wanted to do an Alpha focus episode, we need to open with her as the viewpoint character and narrator for an episode, and focus on Alpha and how she's seeing all of this going on with everything else she's juggling. Alpha is struggling with not being able to understand how to help her sister or her cousin when she can see they're both having big trouble, even as she's trying to make sure they get fed, go to school on time. And she's also trying to get ready for college and she's just freaking the fuck out, like this has the potential to be really good. But it just ends up not feeling that way. 

It doesn't feel like they weren't planning this show it just feels maybe over planned? I'm not really certain. It's a weird experience watching the show and trying to talk about it. You feel like you're being tickled at the back of your head the whole time, trying to follow what the fuck is going on and where this shit is building to.

Ginny 

It feels like they had a really powerful brainstorming phase and then did not carry on to the pruning and organizing. They were like, yeah, and Ciize’s character is gonna have this stress arc, and the teachers are gonna have a romance, and Euro’s gonna have a romance, and AJ is gonna be there.

NiNi

I'm just so mad at you saying AJ's gonna be there. Like, there’s nothing else going on with AJ. He’s just gonna be present. 

Ginny 

You cannot deny that he was there. He was in this show.

NiNi 

He was very there. He was present.

Ben

It very much feels like there were some really powerful single statements they put on the board. Somebody wrote, like, “Big boys need love, too.” And everybody was like, “Hell yeah!” And then they didn't know what to do with it. [Ben laughs]

Ginny 

Right, exactly! It's frustrating!

Ben 

That is the adjective for this show. Frustrating.

NiNi 

I feel like this show had some really clear-eyed ideas at the start, though, and that's the thing that really stresses me out about it. At the start, I feel like they're connecting Mawin's feelings of not feeling good enough and isolation to Ongsa's feelings of not feeling good enough. I feel like that was where they wanted to go with it, but in the end they don't actually go anywhere with it. And I feel like they thought that they were making that parallel all the way to the end with that one and I just didn't see it. There's just so much that the show feels like it really thought it was nailing, like all the Aylin stuff. 

I really enjoyed that idea of Aylin feeling alienated from everybody and not because necessarily of any lack of love or anything from them, just feeling like she doesn't understand them and she needs them to work to be more understood by her rather than her necessarily having to do certain kinds of work to be more understood by them. That give and take. I feel like the show had that idea in the beginning, but then by the end, Luna is pushing Alyin to be more social. And I'm like, but I thought that we understood at the beginning when you were on the rooftop telling her you're not a human, you're a moon, that you understood what needed to happen here. But now you're pushing her to be more social? Like, why? It didn't feel like it connected.

Ginny 

That frustrated me a lot about them because I was really loving what they were doing with Aylin and that kind of acceptance between her and Luna. There's a way to do a, “Now let me help you do some of the social things that you felt unable to do. Let me work with you.” But they simply did not frame it so that it felt like something Aylin wanted. So it comes off just feeling like Luna says, “Well, now we're a couple, so I'm gonna make you be normal.” That's what that sequence felt like to me and that's the thing that soured me on their story. I really hated that.

Ben 

I think my favorite Aylin moment was her taking her own advice and then sending the little letter to Luna.

NiNi 

I liked any moment where it felt like Aylin had a revelation by watching somebody else or the way that other people were interacting doing something, whether or not she agreed with it, and then internalizing that and deciding how she would tackle something like that and then doing it. I like to watch that thought process work with Aylin. But I think at some point, Aylin went from somebody that the narrative was trying to understand to somebody that the narrative was trying to change. And I did not like that.

I love View, I think View is a phenomenal actress. Towards the end of the story, to me, it felt a little bit like she had checked out from the character.

00:33:42 23.5: Final Arc and Ratings

Ben 

I think that's the show. There were a lot of ideas that we were like, hey, this is a good idea. Ope, and it's gone.

NiNi 

We didn't even talk about the final arc with Sun going abroad. The final arc of this show did not connect to anything else, and it tried to tell me things about Sun as a character that had not been laid out in any way before. I feel like they tried to give Love something to do, but they also didn't really trust her with it. And I don't know why, because Love is a good actress. The bits that we see from her where they actually give her something to do in the show, she really nails it on. So why don't they trust her? 

The show just. it's kind of messy, that's not to say that I did not enjoy a great deal of it. The first major arc, maybe up to episode six or seven I feel like that is pretty solid.

Ben 

An evergreen comment about Thai BL.

[Ben and Ginny laugh]

NiNi

Not just Thai BL lately, boo boo. It feels like all of it. We've had some of these problems in Japan lately, too. And I think we've been talking about Korea in this way, as well. Instead of just writing the story from beginning to end, I feel like these writers are getting very excited and trying to do a lot and trying to be like, “Ooh, what can we do that's new and interesting?” How about you just write the story from beginning to the end? That would be fantastic. Thailand is, yes, guilty, but it's been a consistent critique that we've been having across shows, across countries this year. 

All of that said, let's rate this. Ginny, let's start with you. What did you rate 23.5?

Ginny 

I gave it a 7.5. There were some things that I really did like a lot, so I didn't wanna take it too low, but it just really failed to cohere into a good overall show.

NiNi 

Ben?

Ben 

Before I give my rating. Normally when I'm giving you all ratings it's on the scale of, is this worth your time to watch? I will say politically, you should stream 23.5. It is very important that the juice makers know that we want GL. You don't have to watch it. You should stream it. This is not the show that I wanted, but we do need to support this one. 

That being said, I gave the show a 6.5. I don't think this show is genuinely worth putting a shit ton of engagement into. This is not an experience I will be returning to. I don't think the show was very good. The positive things we felt on the front end about how well Milk captured young queer disaster, these are the good things to take with you. But please, please do better.

NiNi 

I slot in right between the two of you. I gave the show a 7. I do think the front end of this was really good. I liked all of the performances, even the ones that I felt that weren't entirely up there, that was more a function of the writing not being there to support what the actor or actress could do. I enjoyed Milk as Ongsa so much, all the way from beginning to end. All that together for me adds up to a 7. It's good enough, but I have some serious reservations about some of the writing.

So, I think that makes me as the person in the middle the actual score for 23.5. So it gets a 7 from The Conversation by the law of averages. It is worth your time from the standpoint of being the first GMMTV GL. It's worth your time from the standpoint of just watching Milk kill this character. Just be aware that the writing falls apart right after the midpoint.

Ben 

It may be GMMTV's first GL, but let's be clear, it's not GMMTV's first lesbians.

GMMTV has had lesbians since they started fucking around with gay people. There were lesbians in SOTUS. There were lesbians in Friendzone and Friendzone: Dangerous Area.

NiNi 

There were lesbians in Dangerous Romance, technically.

Ben 

Wait, what? Were there?

NiNI

We just talked about this!

Ben

Oh man, I blocked that out. [Ginny laughs] I forgot about the teacher plot! Because I was distracted about the knowledge that a windmill—

[all laugh]

NiNi 

And, moving on.

00:38:42 Only Boo

NiNi 

Alright, let's move on to the next show that we're gonna talk about, which is Only Boo. 

Ben, what is Only Boo about?

Ben 

How a gay boy inside of the bubble must remain trapped there, else he'd be forced to face the realities of the cruel homophobic world we live in.

Only Boo is a high school BL from GMMTV about a plucky kid whose mom is a member of the entertainment industry, who has huge aspirations of becoming an idol. He wants to become an idol so bad that he's bailing on classes and exams so he can go to auditions and his mom has had enough of that little kid's shit. So she sends his ass to the countryside to the school she went to so he can get his shit together and graduate from high school. Once he gets there, the very first thing this boy does is spend 500 goddamn dollars on a bike and has no fucking money and gets a—

[Ginny laughs]

NiNi 

I just knew that you were going up—that you were gonna go there in the very beginning. [all laugh] It is actually an important plot point, people, but it is still ridiculous.

Ben 

He has no money and basically gets adopted by the son of the restaurant near his hotel, who also serves food at their school. He's having a little bit of difficulty adjusting but ends up being very fond of the son of the restaurant owner and eventually befriends two other boys who also want to become idols. He is an incredibly fun character to watch, his name is Moo. He's clearly never once thought that people might not like him for being queer and is just so unabashedly joyous about what he loves in his life. He spends the bulk of the first two thirds of the show pursuing Kang, the boy who is helping him, before transitioning to Bangkok to become an idol. 

Complications ensue! Book is there. 

[all laugh]

NiNi 

All right, Ben let me come to you first with this one. What were some of your initial thoughts coming into this show?

Ben 

I gotta be honest, I had, like, my similar reaction to My School President on the front end. [laughs] I was like, I don't know who these boys are and I don't care. No new friends. [Ginny and NiNi laugh] It took me a while to warm up to Keen and Sea and that's not their fault. I'm just older and struggle with new actors. 

But I actually ended up really liking Moo a lot really early. It was interesting watching, like, a modern queer kid. Modern queer youth is really fascinating to me. I've talked about this before, like nobody teaches queer people their history. They have to go find other queer people who teach them their history. And so you end up with this thing a lot where a lot of the baby gays, they know fucking nothing. And Moo is a good example of that in a lot of ways. And it feels like his family has sheltered him because they probably clocked who he was really early and they don't want to talk about that sort of stuff with him. So he feels no shame about being queer. He feels no, like, maybe I should dial it back because people don't like or understand that shit. He's like, nah, I like that boy. And I know he liked me, too! 

I really enjoyed that. I enjoyed the performances with the sides ‘cause they got—what's his name—they paired him with Aun. 

NiNi 

Ashi?

Ben

Yeah. He's pretty solid. I actually like him. And I really thought he did a good job with gay yearning in the early parts of this show. I had a good time. I really also like the teachers in this. I was a teacher for about four years. And I thought that the way they presented the educators in the show was really well done. They were not cool at all, but they were really committed to their jobs. And they treated these kids with stern respect. They weren't like up these kids' asses all the time about unnecessary shit. But Moo was a half step away from being a delinquent for most of the show. And they were very big on applying foot to ass for that boy to make sure he got his shit together. 

I really enjoyed a lot of the early parts of the show. I thought the baseline cast chemistry across the board was really solid. I thought the actors worked really well together in almost every scene—whether I thought those scenes were the right call from a writing standpoint is another thing, but everybody seemed to understand why they were there

NiNi 

Ginny, how about you?

Ginny 

I don't like fluff in general, I won't seek it out. So I went into this one like, well, we'll see how I feel. Because it was clearly a very cute, fluffy kind of premise and cutesy high energy vibe. And I ended up so charmed by especially Keen's performance as Moo, but really both of them together, Sea and Keen, worked really well together and were written really nicely. 

We noted that it's the same writing team as Cooking Crush had. It did feel similar to Cooking Crush that we've started getting a little bit more sincerity and kindness from characters in how they have their kind of awkward first encounters and back and forth where they're trying to figure out, “Do I like you, do you like me, how do we navigate that?” There was so much sweetness and honesty in how they each approached each other and, like, genuine decency that I found really refreshing. So I was so charmed by this show, beyond my expectations, and really very into it for two thirds of its run.

NiNi 

I love Moo so much as a character. I was not planning on watching this show. As with a lot of the shows that I've ended up watching lately, I have had to eat my words. I started watching it sort of on a whim. I didn't have anything else to do, and by the end of the first episode I was entirely charmed by Moo.

He's just so alive as a character. Keen plays him really, really well. That sense of, not Devil May Care exactly, but boundless optimism. There is no indication anywhere in his affect that he has ever heard the word no despite the fact that he hears it all the time. [laughs] And I find that truly delightful. I find characters who are able to get a no, keep it moving and be like, “I am going to turn this no into a yes, but you don't know that yet.” I like that kind of energy and optimism, particularly in a character who is so young, because that's the kind of character who should have that energy and optimism. The kind of character who hasn't had their heart broken before.

I enjoyed Moo and Kang and how the attraction, the interest was instantaneous and mutual. Because one of the things that I was scared of going into this show was that it would be all about Moo being pushy and harassing Kang, but it was clear from the very beginning that whatever was going on here was entirely a hundred percent mutual and they were both very into what was happening.

I enjoyed Aun and Ashi as Payos and Potae despite me having major reservations about their storyline, but we'll get into that. I enjoyed the first, two thirds of this show immensely. Everything that happened with the high school story. And when I say enjoyed, not just from a standpoint of delight, but enjoyed from the standpoint of this writing makes sense. And these characters make sense and everything that is happening here makes sense. And then, it stopped making sense but before we get there…

Is there a before we get there? What else are we talking about before we get to the turn?

Ginny 

We've given Milk a lot of love and I do want to give her a bit more because she was also in this as a side character playing a completely different person from Ongsa, and also was just so fun to watch in every scene. Give Milk more work. I wanna see her in everything.

Ben 

I will give Milk a compliment as a backhand to the other people. [Ginny laughs] I understand why Milk was here. Why was everyone else?

NiNi (50:46)

Oh my god. [laughs] I also liked Milk as Neth. I enjoyed her characterization. I liked the kind of friend that Neth was to Kang. I enjoyed everything about her right up until a weird thing that happened in the last episode. I think she was delightful. 

Ben 

I'll say this about the Neth character. Neth is always timed well for whenever Kang's caution makes him back off of Moo, and she's very good about making him confront his own feelings so that he can take a step forward. She's used extremely well for that so that the development of the boys’ romance never feels stilted

00:48:06 Only Boo: Popping the Bubble

NiNi 

I guess now it's time to flip the script. Ginny, what did you not like here? How did the trajectory of the show go for you?

Ginny 

So around episode 9, we switch from high school to where Moo is starting to get to live his idol dreams. And Kang has overcome some of his own stuckness that he was in before Moo showed up to go to art school in Bangkok. Very exciting.

Then… they made so many choices around the idol storyline. You know that there's gonna be an issue of him being an idol and dating. That's gotta be part of it with a show like this and with the story set up like this. And I was excited to see that. And every choice they made made me less and less excited. I was feeling real shaky by the end of episode 10. Episode 11, I thought was abysmal, I hated everything they did. And episode 12 was like, now I understand what you were trying to do, but you did it so badly. The final arc simply collapsed on itself.

NiNi 

Some of the seeds of the final arc were sown early on, particularly the Shone character. That character from the very beginning just did not sit right, but the final arc actively offended me. The whole idol arc for me, it was not the wave. They should not have done it. And the reason that they should not have done it is that they weren't intending to do anything meaningful with it. 

There are so many ways that you can do an idol story. It's not even that there had to be any one way that the story went. Idols and relationships, there are so many ways to do that story. The way that they chose was quite possibly the most offensive to me, first of all because it didn't make any sense, and then secondly in the end because it didn't matter and it didn't have anything to say about the idol system at all.

It happened. Moo was sad for a year. And then he got back together with Kang and he went and he said, “I don't wanna sign this stupid no dating anybody contract anymore.” And they just went, “Okay.” What was the point of the last four episodes if it was gonna be this easy? One thing I don't like is you spend a lot of narrative and thematic time on something that in the end is solved easily.

Ben, I know you've been holding back.

Ben 

This show is the end of my ability to tolerate bubble shows from GMMTV. I have an appreciation for the bubble, because I grew up in queer cinema. A lot of queer creators are dealing with a lot of grief and a lot of pain, and this comes through in a lot of the art. And so, this fictional space where homophobia is not an issue and boys can just moon after each other and everyone giggles and tee-hees until they get together can be a nice emotional break from that reality. But the problem I'm having with the GMMTV shows at this point is they are not just staying in the bubble. They keep alluding to the real world where homophobia is a real problem and then intentionally not dealing with that.

This thing they did in the show where Moo doesn't even know, like, the word gay exists or whatever, but Kang feels like he's had to deal with some internalized homophobia. But no he hasn't, his mom's totally cool. But then why is he like this? There was this interesting bit with Kang when they moved to Bangkok, where they're gonna be sharing an apartment together and Moo wanted to be intimate with him, and you could feel like Kang wanted to be intimate with him too, but was shy or nervous about it and didn't want to proceed with it. When you've been in the closet for a long time, actually doing something with someone is awkward and kind of nerve wracking, particularly when they're so confident the way Moo is. And I don't feel like we ever really got any resolution on that. And it feels like the show was only having him be shy because they wanted to time certain things out. 

That's one of the many gay frustrations I have with this show, where there's this interesting thing that feels very gay that the show then does absolutely nothing with, or tells us we were wrong about. Like, I sensed early on that some of Kang's reticence about being queer may have come from his mom. Apparently I misread that, whatever. It also bugs me that they won't tell Moo, like, you can't be an out idol, bro. But then fangirls are shipping Louis's character, Jang, with Pyos later on. Like, you can't have shipping culture and then not address where queer people slot into that. 

The very worst gay offense that this show created was having Moo bond with Payos, particularly over clocking Payos's crush on Potae, and then later on, for whatever reason, Moo decides to make Potae his confidant when he has to go into the closet, and not Payos. I don't understand how Payos, being the first other queer he bonded with that he wasn't trying to fuck, is not the person that he trusts with something important. And this was particularly hurtful for me, because Moo lets Payos think that he's gotten over Kang and has broken up with him after this huge “I'm gonna be with this man” arc. Like how lonely must have Payos felt at that moment? He was already struggling with his feelings that he might never get to be with Potae and then Moo, the strongest gay he knows, is like, I guess I gotta get over Kang, ‘cause you know, we gotta make that paper, bro. It is what it is.

I'm just so disappointed in that. And then there's the whole shit with Shone. Why make your cousin's boyfriend break up with him and then hit on your cousin's boyfriend that you made break up with him that you know he still loves? I was so disgusted with those last two things that it has forever soured the show for me.

NiNi 

The Shone stuff for me was particularly heinous. I am an elder sibling and I'm also a big cousin. To betray that big cousin trust, I couldn't fathom doing that to any of my little cousins.

I felt like Shone had no rights at that point. It's one thing when he initially develops this crush on Kang. He didn't know. Fine. Once you know, how do you do that? To me that breaks all the codes, you just don't do that, that's not a thing that you do. It's wicked, it's cruel, it's mean, absolutely unacceptable. And that was where the show really truly offended me.

The Potae and Payos stuff, Payos somehow going from being Moo's confidant to being on the outside while Potae gets to be on the inside, that didn't sit right with me, but the Shone stuff was really just egregious. I could not stomach it.

Ben 

And they made Moo apologize to him. I will never forgive them for that. I will never forgive them for making Moo apologize.

Ginny 

What the fuck was that with Shone? They had this moment earlier where I thought, okay, this is how we're resolving this. We're leading up to a big issue, but then we're gonna have them settle it by being kind and decent to each other and this cousin loyalty thing. Well, it's a little weird that you felt the need to do that at all, but okay, I like where we landed on this. And then they just have him so fully backstab. 

Purely from a narrative construction perspective, what we said we all love about Moo is he's so confident and so sure that, kind of, the world can't touch him. He's gonna get what he wants, and he makes it work and he makes it charming. He's very lovable in this kind of bullheaded determination mixed with sunny optimism. There were ways to then have him have a rude awakening that would have made sense in the story. Instead, what they did was they have, like, three people talk to Kang behind his back, and guilt trip the kid into breaking up with his boyfriend, And then do the no contact one year time skip, because God forbid we ever do anything different. 

If you want to give me an idol story and talk to me about the problems of idols dating, what if you have them actually deal with any of those challenges? I would not have minded if the story was leading to the company saying, “You know what, this is a bad outdated rule for XYZ reasons. We've seen this”. I wouldn't have even minded if it took them a year to get there. That's fine. But the way they did it was just much too easy, no conflict. Moo was just like, “I'm gonna talk to them.” And then he talked to them and it turned out they were already going to do the right thing. And I'm like, why? Make it interesting. Give me a story about that. Don't just do weird convoluted chasing and pining and this cousin backstabbing situation for an episode and a half. It didn't work on any level.

00:58:42 Only Boo: If You're Gonna Do An Idol Story, Commit

Ben 

This is the umpteenth GMMTV show where the poor kid has to upend their whole life for the benefit of the rich kid. And I'm over it. Kang must suffer so that Moo can succeed at being an idol. This is a very weird, specific thematic beat that this company's shows always go to. And I really, truly do not like it.

NiNi 

That was part of the issue, but the thing that really stuck out for me is that this is GMMTV that did this show. GMMTV is an idol house. That's what they are. Let's just be real. They create idols, they teach them to act and sing and dance and they put them out there in concerts and they sell fan meetings and they sell merch. They are an idol house. And what this show feels like, is that they did not want to catch any blowback from being an idol house. They were in a unique position as an idol house to have something, anything to say about this system. Whether they were trying to defend the system, whether they wanted to upend the system, whether they wanted to make a statement of any kind about the system that they participate in.

And they did none of those things. They gave some wishy-washy idea of, yes, we know that this is maybe probably bad, but we don't do this. It feels so disingenuous. It feels like they are trying to be like, oh, don't look over here. I'm not saying that they needed to take a moralistic position on this. I'm just saying that they needed to take a position, period. They could have taken a cynical position on this. They could have been like, this is where the money is. They could have taken an apologetic position on this, they could have taken so many different directions on a story like this depending on what it is that they wanted to say. And I might have been pissed with some of those directions but I, in the end would have been like, okay that's their position.

Ginny 

I will give, like, half a thimble full of credit for the end line being, “Oh yeah, this idols can't date rule is bullshit and we should get rid of it.” I was gonna feel even madder if it ended with Moo ending his contract because you can't be an idol and be in love and the story being fine with that.

At least they gave a momentary lip service to the, yeah, we don't do that. The other half of my half a thimble full of credit is that we have seen one of their BL actors go very public with a girlfriend and it seems like he was supported by the company in that. So, okay, presumably a little bit of their money is where the tiniest whisper of their mouth is, I guess. But yes, they should have said something. They're in the position to really tell a story about this. They should have said something. If they're gonna do this. they should have done it.

Ben 

Bestie, I respect your ability to give them half of a thimble of credit, I will be giving them nothing because they made the show. They put this in front of us. They're the ones who spent the whole fuckin’ show making us question whether or not Moo as he is could be an idol. I'm not giving them credit.

NiNi 

I feel like I slot in somewhere in the middle. More maybe towards the side of being pissed and it really comes down to the whole Payos story. After the one year time skip he's being shipped with Jang. At the end of the story there's a Potae/Payos ship that they're talking about. And at no point is there any indication that Moo is suffering because this is not quote unquote allowed but somehow whatever is going on with the Payos stuff, we're gonna lean into that. For me, if you make a statement on that, then yes, I give you the credit, but you just put it there and you don't say anything about it. 

Television as a medium exists at the nexus of art and commerce. Television doesn't exist without commerce. It's not like film, where people do it for the love. Television doesn't get put out if there's no money in it. Let's just be real about what TV is. The fact that this show is so mealy-mouthed about saying that, about accepting that that is where it sits. I just don't like it. The art commerce thing for me, I sit with it, I'm usually fine. I can usually look at a show and be like, okay, I can see where they did this for the love and where they did this for the money.

It's why I don't have a whole bunch of trouble with the branded pairing thing. My trouble with the branded pairing thing is always when it doesn't align with what the show is trying to do. But the whole act of casting branded pairs in things, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. And I prefer to look at the branded pair thing, as, okay, well, in which way did this pair work for this set of rules and in which way did it not? As opposed to being pissed at the branded pair thing, because that's just, the price of the ride. 

But this one, it just bugged me, man. I felt like if you're gonna be so self-referential about the industry that you are in, that you have to make some kind of statement on it [laughs] one way or another. This show just didn't, and I didn't like that.

01:05:06 Only Boo: Final Thoughts and Ratings

Ben 

As I said in the Japan episode, telling stories about queer experiences in a respectful way is non-negotiable for me in a genre profiting off of people's titillation about seeing boys kiss each other. I don't think that's an unreasonable position to hold. So, as much as I love Moo as a character, and as much as I liked all of the bits we got to talk about early on in this show, this show fails as a queer narrative in a way that is unsettling, often annoying, and in some ways kinda harmful. And I can't pretend like that's okay.

NiNi

Let's rate. Ginny, what are we rating Only Boo?

Ginny 

Oh, I think I'm coming in a lot higher than you two, probably. I did really like the first two thirds and I think I was not as offended by the end. So I gave it a 7.

NiNi 

Ben, how about you?

Ben 

One of the downsides of me having basically a bad time with global BL since Cooking Crush and Cherry Magic Thailand ended, is I'm now starting to weight endings higher. This is not fun. It is making the ability to watch these shows week to week with other people unfun. The shows start fun and we're like, hell yeah, this is a fun show. And then by around episode eight or nine, we're in various stages of grief [NiNi laughs] and they don't finish strong. We don't get to feel triumphant at the end. We don't get to lift that fish out of the stream and be like, we got dinner tonight, boys! And I'm over pretending that the idea of the show is better than the reality of the show. 

As a result, Only Boo gets a 5.

NiNi 

I am, I think once again, splitting the difference. Because I did have a good time for the first eight episodes of this show. I was offended by the last two. A bad ending can ruin a show for me. It does not always, but it can ruin a show for me.

But throughout the entire show from end to end, I have to say, that throughline of Moo and Kang and their relationship. I just believed them so much. Even when the show is crashing down around them, they are somehow holding together that love story, and making me believe in it.

I want to give it a 6 but I think I'm going to end up at a 6.5 just for that. Moo and Kang and the Moo and Kang love story and Sea and Keen as Moo and Kang are so good.

So what does that leave us? 5, 6.5, 7, what does that one go to? Like a 6.25. I don't know. What is maths? 

Ginny 

We can call it a 6.

NiNi

I'm a whole engineer and I can't do maths.

Ben 

We can call it a 6. I'm calling producer privilege. This show pissed me off for gay reasons and I'm not gonna pretend that the romance makes up for pissing me off for gay reasons.

NiNi

Okay, it's a 6 from The Conversation.

01:08:45 Outro: High School Blues

NiNi 

I wanna talk a little bit about these two shows just from the sense of both of them as high school shows, but also in the sense of them being shows that started out well and did pretty well through maybe half to two thirds of their run and then faltered at the end. When it comes to high school shows, as we have indicated before, we don't actually get as many of them as we think from Thailand.

Ginny

For me, the high school of it all is not the core of either show's problem. That's sort of incidental to just not having a clear understanding of the story it was telling. Did some very charming work with some very charming actors and scenes, but simply got lost at some point along the way.

NiNi 

My overall thinking about these two shows and where they landed for me is I don't know what Thailand wanted to say about high school in these shows or if they wanted to say anything about high school or if high school is just an incidental setting for these shows. What do they want to say about people on the cusp of growing up? What is it they want to say about the high school experience? I feel like that's not something that either of these shows was particularly interested in. Maybe to some extent more 23.5 was interested in it than Only Boo.

Ginny 

23.5 was a high school show and I think one of the big ideas that they wrote on the board was some stuff about high school social dynamics that they occasionally highlighted and then completely forgot about for episodes at a time.

Ben 

The big problem both of these shows have is they don't understand that the crux of a high school show is about growing up, and about how you can't go backwards anymore. The kids have to recognize that properly for the first time. I think both shows are trying to get there, but I think in almost every case, they get lost in the shipping of it all and not in the story that they need to tell. 

Almost all of these characters have broken arcs about growing up. Their energy is not focused on the proper culmination of the individual character arcs. They're focused exclusively on the romance arcs, and they believe that the resolution of these romance arcs is a good substitute for the resolution of their individual arcs. And it really frustrates me watching both of these shows not really landing on a good place about what it means to grow up. Which is for me, what is at the core of high school stories. Let's go back to The Breakfast Club and start over.

[Ben and NiNi laugh]

NiNi 

Not The Breakfast Club!

Ben 

I do not feel positively about either of these shows and I'm not righteous about it. I am disappointed and really frustrated. This is not a great place to be with the genre.

I don't know what's going on, everybody. I think we all need to take a good six month sabbatical. Let's have a beach episode as a whole genre, go plant some trees [NiNi laughs] and go to the beach and hang out for a bit and then come back and work on some stuff. We all need a break. It feels like people are stretched really thin. I don't know what's going on, but this is feeling like a global issue at this point. The initial ideas are good, but the execution is not. And then it ends on a flat note or an unsatisfying note.

I am a critic. Talking about stuff with people is more than half of the fun. Watching the show alone by myself is not the bulk of my enjoyment with a piece of media. My real fun with a piece of media is when I finish something and I'm gonna go annoy the nearest person to me. It's like, “Hey, it's time for you to watch something.” [NiNi laughs] That's what's fun for me.

These shows are not giving me that outlet. I don't get to share that with people who aren't BL fanatics like us. Sharing art with people is how I connect to people. And I can't share most of our shows [laughs] with normies because they're like, “This is bad. Why did you show this to me?”

NiNi 

See, that's the difference between you and me. I gave up on the normies a long time ago.

Ben 

I really want the people who watch Young Royals and Heartstopper to connect with BL. So when they finish those shows, be like, what else is there? I'm like, we got the list, girl. It's right here! But like, that list is not growing this year! We need fresh content for the list!

NiNi 

I mean, there is quite a backlog, so I feel like, if they need to take a break, I will understand. 

Ben 

They should take a break. It is summer. Everybody go to a beach. Get some sun.Go have an encounter with a hot stranger. Get your mind right, and then come back. 

We gotta take a break ‘cause this is not working. I haven't been this grumpy since 2018.

NiNi

You are grumpy right now, bestie. 

Ben 

It's not good! We can split hairs and talk about what these shows did good or bad, but in the end, are we saying people should go out and watch these shows earnestly? No. Okay.

NiNi 

We gotta wrap this up. So, that is going to do it for us on the GMMTV School Days episode. We out. Say bye to the people, Ginny.

Ginny

Bye!

NiNi

Say bye to the people, Ben.

Ben 

Peace!

[abominable-space-they]

Ok everyone has me in a punk Steve & Eleven mind set.

This is refining & combining two separate Steve being close with the girls/El au ideas I've had recently

So, what if Steve was the one who found Eleven on that first night, everything would fall out so differently from there

Since he cancelled on Nancy no party with secret government psychic kid on the property, Barb didn't die. When Will got taken, Barb & Nancy both know Jonathan so they get involved through helping & supporting him.

Meanwhile Steve was panicking while actively hiding a mostly nonverbal child. He's almost certain she's been severely neglected at least, probably abused. Bad things have happened to her, he recognized the signs. He'd been that kid. He sees himself in the way she's jumpy, defensive, weirdly naive, in the way she always waits to see what he's doing first, before she says or does anything herself.

He won't to give her back to whomever she ran from, can't bring himself to do that to another kid. His parents were never home so they're not a problem but he doesn't know what the fuck to do about the government.

In a panic he went to the guy he bought his weed from (he knows how to hide from the cops right?)

Eddie Munson

Eddie didn't know what was going on in Hawkins but what he did know was that all these undercover government vans weren't here for a wild animal attack... or him, thank the Deities for small favors.

So when Steve fucking Harrington showed up on his doorstep with a magical child, panic in his and eyes, and no idea what to do next, Eddie was mostly relieved.

Relieved and maybe just a little intrigued

An escaped secret government psychic kid, a totally different missing kid of the same age, a town full of under cover fbi vans(or worse), and these reported animal attacks had to be connected, if Eddie was running this campaign he would never have this much going on at once that wasn't part of a larger connected story. He just couldn't see the whole picture yet. They needed more information & they needed resources

Jonathan & Nancy had been acting super suspicious the last few days. Eddie usually minded his business but under these circumstances, after a brief urgent discussion, they decided it might be wise to just pop in and see what was what. Maybe they knew what the hell was going on. They could all compare notes at least

They took Eddie's van bc he was not gonna be at the mercy of Steve Harrington for transportation. Doing foolish shit like that could get you hate crimed... Plus being the town weed slinger had it's benefits. He knew where everyone lived.

On the way to try and find the other kids to compare those notes, Eleven, who was very quiet but had an eerie way of just knowing things, found the crate he kept ppl's forgotten tapes in, there was a little bit of everything in that crate, a musical lost and found that he couldn't bring himself to discard, even if he personally thought the music was boring

Eleven picked a tape, waving it at them like it had significance.

Well why not?

Steve showed her how to put it in the tape deck. The Runaways crashed into life on his better then average speakers. Eddie expected Steve to complain, but he just listened very very closely, eyes closed like he was straining to hear the lyrics over the heavy guitars.

"you ok Stevie?"

"huh? Yeah yeah, this is just... relatable. I kinda didn't expect it, you know? ... Do you think they'll be able to help?"

There was only one way to find out, they were here. The Byers residence blinked dimly. Eddie thought the cheer was ominous given the circumstances.

Eleven appeared between the seats, brow furrowed.

"we need to hurry, it's coming"

WELL THAT WASN'T TERRIFYING AT ALL-

[from-the-coffee-shop-in-edoras]

Hi there! So happy I found your blog! I also love everything Rohan 😄 I'm a linguist and am just wondering about the language of Rohan. Given your extensive knowledge of our beloved kingdom, I was wondering if you'd be able to share what you know about their language? I understand it's supposed to be similar to Old English? Would a modern-day English-speaking person be able to understand them at all? Or at least identify it as a language that is similar to Old English? Did the people of Rohan more commonly speak Rohanese/Rohirric or Westron? Did all of them speak/understand both languages? Thank you so much!

Hello, Anonymous! I’m so glad you’re here and that you enjoy what you’ve found so far! Your question, coming from a linguist, makes me a little nervous because I am very much not. But I have confidence that someone else will pop in to correct me if I screw it up!

Any discussion of Rohirric gets complicated by the framing device Tolkien used. We’re supposed to believe that LOTR is an in-universe history, written by people who were there and who wrote in Westron. So what we see as English in the published book is supposed to be Tolkien’s translation of Westron. He then picked Old English to represent the language of the Rohirrim as a way to demonstrate the relationship between Rohirric and Westron – namely, Rohirric is an older, more archaic language than Westron with some shared historical origins (though the shared origins between Rohirric and Westron are not as direct as the way that English descended from Old English).

That means Old English is just used to make a point, not to show us what the language itself looked or sounded like. For that, we mostly have Legolas’s description (“rich and rolling”, “hard and stern” and “laden with sadness” 😬) and a few individual words that are mostly found in History of Middle Earth. The differences between the actual language and the Old English representation is pretty huge! The Old English-style name Éothéod (“horse people”) is actually Lohtûr. The name Théoden (coming from Old English meaning “king of the people”) is Tûrac in Rohirric. Because we know “loh” means horse in Rohirric and Éomer and Éowyn’s names both have eo- coming from Old English for “horse,” their real names would start with Loh- as well!

So a real Rohirric speaker would be using a language that has no relationship to Old English and wouldn’t be intelligible to a speaker of any form of English. As to whether a speaker of Old or Modern English would be able to understand Tolkien’s Old English-based representation of Rohirric, I’m not sure. He clearly knew a lot about Old English, so I imagine his use of that is probably pretty good (though he definitely made changes, like replacing “þ” with “th”). And I know that sometimes, as a modern English speaker, I can recognize and understand Old English words, but only those that made their way down to us largely unchanged. If I listen to someone reciting a whole bunch of Old English, it still sounds mostly like mush to me.

As for what languages are used on a daily basis in Rohan, I think we’re supposed to consider that Rohirric is the everyday language. Appendix F notes that the Rohirrim “still speak their ancestral tongue” and the guards at Edoras in TT say that using Rohirric is how they recognize their countrymen and friends. But Tolkien also says the “lords” use Westron freely in the manner of Gondor, and even the Rohirric-speaking guards switch easily to Westron when Gandalf asks them to. That suggests to me that Rohirric is for everyone/everyday use, but Westron is widely known, at least for anyone who might be interacting with outsiders.

I hope that was helpful! And thank you for sharing in love and appreciation for my favorite place in Middle Earth! ♥️🐎🗡️👑

[sweater-daddiesdumbdork]

Curtis and Honey Autumn This or That 🍂

Week Eight: Thrift Shop or Library

Summary- 1.5k Curtis Everett x Plus!Sized Reader. Curtis is looking for a vintage car part. With luck a thrift shop has it, giving you two a chance to go thrifting.

A/N- Very last one of this mini fall series and it's made me a little emotional to have it end. But thank you! thank you! THANK YOU! for reading, sharing, and participating in the polls. You all really are the best. Happy Reading!

Curtis and Honey This or That Masterlist

Life Is Short So Make It Sweet Masterlist

Curtis looked at the address one more time to double-check that they showed up in the right place. Sure enough, the little quaint-looking thrift shop was right where the address led them. You leaned forward in your seat to peer out the window, unable to hide a grin. “Okay, Let’s go in!” Excited as you pushed open the door to pop out of the truck, he followed along but still managed to make sure he reached the door first to hold it open. “I didn’t think these places had car parts though?” 

“Me neither, but the ad Grey showed me claims they do. If they have that part for the Camaro, I will be fucking thrilled.” His hand moved to the small of your back, easing you through the door, the tinkle of a bell announcing that the two of you arrived. 

Looks can be deceiving because the inside was much larger than the front of the building led to believe and it was full of stuff. Your eyes widened as you took in the packed isles of shelves littered with everything imaginable. Even Curtis gave a soft whistle of surprise at everything. “We could be here all day.” You muttered as you picked a random nearby shelf, peering around and behind all the trinkets scattered on it to see what might be tucked behind it. 

The little negative tone that was reserved for fleeting moments of annoyance now piped up. Curtis is only here for one thing, not to look around. 

Jake hated this, he gave in once in a while when you really begged him to come, wanting to make a day of thrift shops. He would roll his eyes and give you a smirk that implied he wanted something in return, always something you didn’t necessarily want to do, but would because as he said “I spent my day looking at junk with you and I didn’t even want to do it.” 

It always stung, but you would agree to it, because he did go with you just to make you happy. Although those outings never lasted more than a couple hours and he would get a call, saying he was needed right away elsewhere. 

Curtis was quick to snap you out of the memories with Jake. “Give me a few seconds to ask about that part and we can look around Honey.” Curtis ran his hand over your hip with an affectionate squeeze before pulling away. “I'm sure we will find some cool stuff to bring home.” 

“You sure we have time?” You questioned a bit, trying not to sound hopeful or anything, nor implying that you wanted to stay and look around, being an inconvenience. Curtis gripped your chin gently to turn you enough to look at him. 

“Pretty Girl, it's obvious you want to explore. We will take our time, This trip isn’t all about what I want. Okay?” 

You could have melted right there with affection, you thought you had been able to hide the resigned yearning in your tone but again, somehow Curtis picked up on what you wanted but wasn’t admitting to, out loud at least. “I would really like that.” You felt him lean in closer, catching a kiss from you and flashing a reassuring smile. 

As he went to the counter to discuss why he was visiting, you let yourself relax, exploring now a  little less hurriedly, taking your time to really pick up little odds and ends, some you discarded as not really your style. Others you played in your hands, imagining where you would set it up, how it would look. 

Those images always were at Curtis’s house so much of your time was spent there. You always set it back down though and moved onto something else. Last thing you needed to do was bring more stuff into his home. 

Halfway down the first aisle, you did find a vase. Beautiful with a thicker glass that made it heavy and sturdy even though it came off as looking delicate. It was a soft green, almost a jade color that had swirls of silvery white streaks mixed through the glass. You couldn���t resist picking it up, holding it in your hands with desire. You checked the tag for a moment, debating with yourself. 

But in the end, you put it back, stepping away from it. A strong pair of arms curled around you from behind, fingers brushing under your sweater to skim across your skin as Curtis tucked his chin on your shoulder. You instinctively leaned back into him, his chest firm against your back, content at being held. 

“See anything you wanted?” 

You laughed gently. “Sure, but anything I absolutely need? No, not really.” 

He hummed a ‘hmm’ as if in disbelief but never pushed any further about it. You two sorted through old tools, Curtis able to tell you about what some were used for, paintings and prints were just scattered all over the place and you both took the time to shift old frames to see what might be hiding behind the next one.

Curtis did find an old painting easel that he was genuinely interested in, watching his eyes light up as he lifted the hideous print resting on it to check it out further. You nudged at him a bit as he debated with himself. “You really love this?” 

“Well, recently I thought I might want to try my hand at painting? I don’t know, be another thing sitting in the corner of the house that I don’t have time for.” He started talking himself out of it. 

“I think you should, try it anyways.” You let your hand reach for his, fingers pushing through his and giving a light squeeze. Curtis returned it, but did end up leading you away with a ‘Maybe later when I have time for it.’ 

Hours later, you two managed to make it back to the counter, Curtis setting a rather nice winter work coat he came across and you did let yourself be convinced by Curtis that you needed an old map of Lake Superiour, intending on hanging it up in your classroom to match it alongside an updated one to show off the differences to your students. “Will ths be all for you two?” The kind older lady asked as Curtis made his way around the counter to lift up the heavier box of car parts he had wanted so she wouldn’t have to. 

“I’m all set.” You said with a smile and Curtis shook his head. 

“Give me a second, I need to grab one last thing.” He held up a finger, indicating a moment before bolting off down the first aisle you two had browsed. You thought maybe he was going for the easel from before. 

But he came around with the jade green vase you had so wanted. Your mouth opened to say he didn’t have to, but he flashed you a look. “Nope, I caught you admiring this earlier, more than anything else in here Honey.” 

“Okay, but let me at least pay for it.” You tried but he shook his head at that too while taking out his wallet before you even could. 

“Let me, this time? Next time you can.” He asked and you hesitated, glancing at the vase and map for a second. “Promise, next time we do this I won’t put up a fight about it… much.” He broke into a grin. 

“Let him dear.” The lady across the counter finally said. “I’m giving him a deal anyways with those car parts, my husband would have wanted them to go to someone rebuilding a car.” 

You hesitated, for half a second more and gave in, letting your bag resettle on your shoulder. “Next time Curtis, it’s on me.” You said while he handed over the cash. 

“Sure…” He said as he picked up the heavier box. “Can you grab my receipt? I'm gonna get this loaded into the truck.” 

You waited till he slipped away, making sure he was occupied with going out to put the heavy box in the truck. Pulling out your card, you set it on the counter. “You know that easel in the back?” 

“Nice piece isn’t it? It’s held up so well for being one that was used in a college.” 

“I want it.” You slipped your card over. “Whatever the cost, I will take it. But it’s a gift for him, so can I come back later in the week to pick it up?” 

“Oh sure! I will put it in the back so no one else tries to pick it up.” She rang up your order next and was quick to hand the card and receipt back to you to tuck away, just in time because Curtis made his way back inside to get the other few items. 

“We are gonna come back another time.” Thanking the owner, you nodded in agreement. 

“Sooner rather then later is what I’m thinking Curtis.”

[lullabyalikpoptarot]

Stray Kids Dynamics (Bang Chan's Perspective)

Alright, now time to start Stray Kids Dynamics and we will start with the leader Bang Chan, let's see what he has to share. Remember, this is the energy now, it can always change.

Lee Know (Freedom/3 of Pentacles) There could be a sense of independence here we these two. They kind of like to do things their own way, which may be why they make a good team. They are kind of able to blend their unique taste. It seems these two communicate a lot about work related stuff, bringing up ideas together. Maybe they both discuss wanted some sense of independence and freedom somehow. It seems right now their communication is more work based, than going anywhere deep and profound at the moment.

Changbin (Reveal/King of Cups) This one shows a bit of a deeper bond. It seems someone shared something with the other. It seems they feel comfortable revealing things with one another. There seems to be less judgment and more understanding with these two. I am not sure who is the emotional pillar here, it may be Bang Chan. It seems he is emotional support system for him at times, or at the moment. I feel like Changbin may come to him for advice, and he seems to like that he trusts him to tell him things. It could be the other way around, but I feel Bang Chan is more this KOC's. This is sweet.

Hyujin (Believe/Knight of Cups) This one is cute! It seems there is a sense of optimism with these two. It seems like someone offered their support and love to someone. I can see the Knight of Cups being Hyunjin. He seems him as sweet, romantic, charming and very loving. He sees him as leading with his heart and intuition more. I see this as him giving him support and giving him hope somehow on things, like doing things to cheer him or see the good side in things. It is like he does gestures to make him feel better. This is too cute to be honest.

Han (Hea;/7 of Swords) Yeah, so this one is tricky, something went down here. You really don't want a 7 of swords in a dynamic reading. He may have felt hurt or betrayed by Han, he may see him as not being honest or deceptive in some ways. There is some healing that needs to be done with this dynamic right now. I just see him tip toeing around him and not being forth right, for whatever reason that word kept popping up, but yeah, this dynamic needs work. I can also see this as him seeing Han as someone who needs healing and should stop avoiding things and stop hiding his true self. I don't know something along those lines.

Felix (Cunning/Death) This one is kind of confusing to me. Okay, there is something that needs to end here. I keep hearing, put this to bed. Is it that he sees him as manipulative and cunning, or he has a different way of doing things that he doesn't like? The card is represented by the Fox, which can also mean someone witty and has shape shifting abilities and with the Death card, someone who is ever evolving, willing to let go of his past self, so these could be good qualities as well. I am kind of getting manipulative energy here, like he is one way with one person and another person with someone else. So, the word astute kept popping in my head. I had no clue what that means, so googled it, which means, having or showing an ability to accurately assess situations or people and turn this to one's advantage: I had to laugh when I saw this. So yeah, he might do that. Not hating or judging. I just go with the energy and messages I am getting. It will be interested to see Felix's perspective on their dynamic when I get to him. At the end of the day, it is about perspective, and this is Bang Chan's, there is three sides to a story, his truth, the other person's truth, and the whole truth. This was interesting though.

Seungmin (Deal/Temperance) There could have been some sort of compromise or deal with these two. It is like they balance each other out or work their issues out well together. It seems like there is an understanding between the two of them. I don't know they made some sort of deal together, not sure what it is though. Maybe to keep the peace. Deal is represented by the goat, which means contracts, a pact, or promise, and temperance can indicate a compromise, so these cards indicate some sort of deal between the two. I can also see this as them helping the other not to go too far, or overdo things, to keep things in moderation, they may help each other out with that, maybe that is the deal they made, this is quite specific okay.

I.N (Hunt/Judgment) Another confusing one at first glance. I can see this as them both seeking or searching for personal development or growth. I am also getting seeking validation and praise, if that is from each other, or they seek it from others, including fans. I can see this as both seeking each other for appraisal and validation, or he sees I.N seeking that from him and others. Well, did not expect that, but that is all I am getting here.

Okay, I actually wasn't expecting this to be that interesting, but he surprised me. It will be interesting to see what Lee Know's perspective is when I do him next weekend. I may also do Changbin's as well, but I will just leave it at him for this weekend's bunch of reading.

[messrsrobyn]

Ok nobody I’ve asked seems to give me a direct answer so I figured I’d just voice all my concerns with you? You don’t have to answer everything 😭😭

When it comes to fandom friends how do you move from just being moots to being friend friends? I saw a video you made about it when somebody had asked you a similar question but I’m really struggling with getting them to feel like friends and not just random accounts in my phone.

I’ve seen videos people have made and you guys are sharing jokes in the comments. I saw video of 3 girls that said “Us when anyone hates on mesrsrobyn” and you said like “Fan behaviour” which obviously shows that you’re actually their friend and you’re just teasing them.

Also how do you find people who are ok with you not responding all the time (😭😭😭) I’m just genuinely not active very much on any forms of social media. I was in a marauders gc and I was really happy thinking I was gonna make fandom friends but because I wasn’t active all the time they had a bunch of inside jokes I didn’t get and I kinda felt like an outsider.

Most of the people I see you interacting with online seem really cool and fun, so I’m just wondering where to find people like that. Just genuinely from posting?

I’m sure I’ve worded all this so strangely but honestly I’m sad because I’ve been in this fandom for 3 years in November and I have made no real lasting friendships. I feel like you yapping so much LOL

IK THE VIDEO 😭 my besties yup !!

this is long so i'm putting the lil dashy line thingy

i have v limited advice actually bc i don't think i've initiated many of my friendships in fandom?? despite how little i stfu, i'm a shyyy person. i get scared to text first.

my BIGGEST bit of advice is take. it. off. the. app.

i try to get discords mainly (bc i use it most) but once you take it off of tiktok or wherever you met it feels so much less like mutuals. like yes, we met in fandom but now we are discussing our plans for the day and getting to know each other as Robyn not Messrsrobyn.

i made most of my friends from posting !! i made my account as a whole to meet people and (ive been flagging a bit recently actually but) i always try to reply to EVERYONEEE. so most of my friends were just people that commented that i replied to, their name kept popping up in my notifs? boom. friends. one of them said they loved crimson rivers so next time i found an edit i sent it to them.

ALSO !! i'm so bad at replying.

servers im more active in i think, but just... dms? not very good at all. anyone that doesn't respect that or gets mad? 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️ i dont want them as a friend.

like it's frustrating i know! i hate the amount of lil red bubbles i have on every single app but it doesn't mean i value my friends any less and they all know that <3 we don't always have the time or capacity to reply and that's okie.

i tend to get it out the way immediately and test the waters. just a lil "btw i'm really sorry for my reply times! i'm not the best at it but feel free to double text me as much as you want" and always make sure that i follow up on everything that's been said whilst i wasn't replying.

im rambling a bit i fear but the right friends won't get mad at it, or make you feel less important bc of it. it might just take some time to find them but You Will.

i feel like i havent actually given much advice?? i'm genuinely so so so lucky to have found the friends that i have but i did nothing. i think i said in a few of my tiktoks rightttt at the beginning that my dms were open for friends and then i think? hope? that i've kept that energy going of like someone that anyone can message and i'll get back to them (at some point 😭 my tiktok dms are a mess but thats an issue for future robyn) so i've been able to just sit back and naturally find them.

i live by the motto of "the worst they can do is not reply" every time i send a comment or dm to a new person

we're all just losers reading fanfiction !! we all want lil friends to talk to about it so interaction and reaching out gives us that BUT it's the taking it off of the app that takes it from mutuals to friends imo.

this is UNNECESSARILY LONG omg. i never know how to answer these ones but i hope it helps a lil? <3 social interaction is NOT my finest point. potentially my worst i fear.

[tadpolesonalgae]

sticking to the headcanon that feyre has a baby face bc it tickles my heart to think that when elain or nesta sees feyre sleeping/painting/just zoning out or smth for a flicker of a moment it feels like they're looking at their baby sister no different from their teenage years and their heart feels molten to think about everything they all went through and how their little sister fucking died and elain would just goes up to feyre and kisses her forehead and feyre just kinda looks at her with a confused smile, or if it's nesta she'd probably just abruptly get up and leave just to come back with a blanket to drape over a sleeping feyre and ugh can u tell that im obsessed with the messy dynamic of siblings that have never learnt or have been allowed to be soft with each other yet they can't help but care about each other deeply and have moments where that love shines through-

(sorry it's just whenever i see fics taking place around acosf and that inevitably jagged relationship between the sisters gets portrayed (whether directly or implied) i feel so many things that i feel like im going to explode bc... i wonder if seeing nesta drowning herself in alcohol and sex maybe reminded feyre of her time utm when she was essentially forced to get drugged/drunk and had no one to protect her from being sexualized by a bunch of strangers, or if nesta's knee jerk reaction towards lucien was so violent bc it felt like just another fae male trying to take away one of her younger sisters and the last time that happened they came back having already died, or if elain finds comfort in nuala and cerridwen so easily bc being able to bake or tend to the gardens together is something she wanted to do with her sisters back when they lived in the cabin...🥲)

Oh my gosh I think I would have liked to see something like this in a bonus chapter? I saw someone making a post about how Elain made a point to say how both her and Nesta failed Feyre in letting her go out into the woods and Feyre just wanting to start again because of how their situation was forced on them so it made things much more complex in their relationship and added way too many struggles for them to have a chance to get through it peacefully/happily :/

It feels also believable they might do something like that too since the whole family seems kind of unable to express themselves verbally and—as someone has nicely pointed out before—seem to only show their love for one another through acts of extreme sacrifice.

Even better if Feyre doesn’t understand what’s going on, just every so often she notices this weird softness popping up from both of them and she’s like ??? But also it’s nice and she wouldn’t ask them not to do it.

And I hadn’t thought of those parallels before but it’s kind of sweet to think those might be reasons behind some of their instinctive reactions—from having seen others suffer or experienced it themselves in a similar way and instinctively wanting to protect/prevent someone else from experiencing it too? There’s so much about the books that I’m almost happy wasn’t touched on because it leaves it open for discussion and will allow creativity to thrive!!!