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twdmusicboxmystery · 1 year

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Romance in TWD + Emily Near Where Fear Was Filming

@wdway

This is just me rambling about Fear. Overall the mid-season finale was heartbreaking for so many characters, I'm trying to think of a couple that is still established and I can't think of any. Grace died, Sherry and Dwight are separating after the death of their son. Madison has reunited with some of her extended chosen family, Daniel and June, but she still believes that both of her children are dead.

It's unsure of who else in their chosen family is still alive and we won't find out until s8 part 2 airs. I have a feeling that the characters that we will see in part 2 will mostly live. And that tptb will want to end the series with leaving the door open to seeing many of the character again somewhere in the TWDU.

In thinking about how there are no longer any romantic couples left in Fear and for the most part that's true for TWD. Carol and Ezekiel relationship storyline was left open ended. I personally think that they'll leave it somewhat open, that Carol and Ezekiel will always love each other and be very affectionate, but I think their relationship will move forward to living together separately if that makes any sense. She will never refer to herself as his wife or that he is her husband, but they will always be a couple, that are working together to raise Judith and JR and build the CW together. There is that sweet affection between them, but Carol will be more comfortable without labels.

Gabriel losing Rosita and Aaron losing both Eric and Jesus makes them both single fathers now, so there might be something in the future for them.

Eugene and Max, Princess and Mercer are the only couples that we have. And I so hope that Eugene and Max are the foreshadowing of Daryl and Beth. Which would be not only that they will find each other but they will live beyond whatever the next big war/conflict that will come at them. That they will be the couple with a happy ending. That is something that I think TWD Universe going forward desperately needs. More hope, more happiness.

I'm not talking about departing from the genre of horror or overly dripping with sweetness, butterflies and fairy tales, but I think people are sick and tired of seeing characters they love die. That happiness on those rare occasion when it's given to our characters is quickly and usually brutally snatched away.

I think it's time for something different, if they want to build back their fan base and enlarge it to newcomers. I believe that the fans want to root for the characters they love and when their characters are happy, the fans are happy too. Throw in a few nasty villains that fans love to hate and you've got a hit, haha.

We already know that Rick and Michonne will find each other and we strongly suspect that they will united with their family's, Judith and JR but also their chosen families, Daryl, Beth, Morgan, Carol and the rest of TF. I do wonder how Maggie and Negan's spinoff will line up with the other spin-offs because it is set a few years ahead.

I have no doubt that they will all blend together but I'm really scratching my head and how they're going to achieve that and how many time jumps are we going to have to have. I really want them to come together before the main characters are in their 70s or '80s and they have to do major makeup to make them look older, haha.

I warned you at the beginning that this was a ramble and that's exactly all it is.

@galadrieljones

I feel you and I am ready for some major love stories. The only love story I can think of in Fear that hasn’t been torn apart is Al and Isabelle. They are still out there.

Part of me is still sad about John and June. They were by far the best love story Fear had, I think, and that was dashed away. Also I hope you’re right too about getting Daryl’s backstory for the spin-off. When I watched that clip of Norman on Jimmy Kimmel he mentioned that he wanted the show to be called “Daryl Dixon.” This would imply it’s about HIM, not as much the world, and that works hopefully entail flashbacks.

(John’s character was also one of my favorites. His episodes were extremely good and he was also just so…good. I feel like after he died the show got a little bit worse. Maybe that’s just me tho.)

@wdway:

I totally forgot about Isabelle and Al. I hope we do find out about them before the series. I've always thought they would be connected with Maggie's story but I don't know how that's going to line up now with their spin-off. I feel the same about Daryl. I really don't have a great interest in spending a huge amount of time with backstories of characters he will meet, but I do hope that there will be a plot to his story that will include not only Beth but the variance walkers and what how that would implies towards the war with the CRM.

I definitely agree about June and John. I absolutely loved, loved John. The actor was so good, he was so perfect in that part. I hate that he felt it was time for him to leave. And I agree his departure and his character's death changed the feeling of the show a great deal, imo.

@twdmusicboxmystery:

I couldn’t agree more about needing some epic romance in TWD. They’re really touting Richonne as being that; and I’m excited for their spin-off. But of course we’re all looking much more forward for the unseen relationship on the horizon: Bethyl.

@wdway

For a very long time I've always been hesitant to think that Beth would show up anywhere other than TWD mothership show but it didn't happen in TWD. And this little tease that they've done with Fear truly has me wondering if they would go in that direction. That they would use Fear to unveil Beth.

I'm doing a back and forth to the benefits or the downside to it. I would think the benefit is that they could have filmed some with Emily without anyone looking over their shoulder as with Daryl spinoff. We do know Emily was in Savannah. I guess I could Google and see when filming ended for Fear, then compare that date to when Emily was in Savannah. The question is will Beth appear somewhere during the second half or would they just leave that as an ultimate tease. I think I want to believe that the so-called friends wedding happened towards the end of what would have been the filming of Fear. Anyway it's fun to speculate about.

@galadrieljones

@wdway, I just did what you suggested and Emily was there like smack in the middle of filming, so.

@wdway

So we have yet another "coincidence." That bit of blonde hair is looking more and more interesting isn't it.

So do you guys think there is benefit to her showing up in Fear (not that she is) but could be?

Let's play devil's advocate and it is Beth in the teaser scene. The other thing that occurred to me is that this places her in the West, you could say the Western frontier and in the last last episode of TWD we had Daryl returning after a year from the "frontier."

I keep coming back to the question of where was Daryl during that year after the fall of CW and the one year anniversary? Why did he leave Judith and RJ? Why did he come back and then leave, yet again?

If Emily was filming Fear in Savannah the cover story she posted would have been a great cover for she being seen in Savannah. Has you guy's noticed In watching Emily's IG post for the last few years would it be unusual for her to mention being in a location for a friend's wedding or some kind of event? Is her giving an explanation, for no real reason, of why she's in a certain location unusual for her? Or does she post that type of thing quite often?

@galadrieljones:

I’ll start here, and say that I don’t think that sort of this is super typical. It was weird because she just talked about how she found her dress in Savannah, and she mentioned it like 2-3 days after having been there.

She also hid that bit under a cut in the caption, which means you have to click “read more” to see it. Otherwise you just see the part about her “cozy press outfit.”

In her original Savannah post, which was buried in a story (which are temporary), she’s also wearing that sweater she wore on TTD. Sure maybe she just likes it! But there could also be something to that. To me, it seemed like Emily posted that thing about being in Savannah in her story. She didn’t initially say why she was there. She just posted a picture of herself in the sweater with the tag “Savannah.”

Perhaps she started getting DMs about whether she was there for filming. Maybe tptb told her to come up with an excuse. Maybe she didn’t realize ppl were watching Fear filming and would be asking questions. Or maybe it was on purpose. Sometimes I think that when they place stuff in stories, it’s more purposeful, because only ppl who are looking will be sure to find it, and then it disappears.

@wdway:

Thanks @galadrieljones, all of this is good to know. There is still the question of if it was all a coincidence or not. We really won't know until part 2 of Fear comes back. I do think there might be a uproar with some Fear fans if suddenly Beth appeared, it would be somewhat stealing the thunder from the original characters.

Unless somehow Beth's story in some way connected like the kidnapping of children, the setting up new communities, that type of thing. If there's some kind of tie say between Beth and Alicia, which I would truly love because I have always thought they would have been great friends. That would be a good spin on a crossover character but who knows.

I would love to see Beth in a part 2 preview for Fear during Comic-Con, with Daryl spin-off panel following. A great one, two punch and a real shocker. A must watch the last half of Fear and definitely Daryl's spin-off mentioned. But that's just my wishful head canon.

#beth greene #beth greene lives #beth is alive #beth is coming #td theory #td theories #team delusional #team defiance #beth is almost here #bethyl

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orifu · 10 months

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ok im just gonna write a bunch of my disorganised thoughts on the new doctor who episode the star beast. enjoy. or dont.

story wise it was very enjoyable. all the characters were written like actual people (cough cough chris chibnall) and i really enjoyed watching it. the twist of the meep being evil was (at least in who circles) pretty well known so having the rose metacrisis twist too was really effective (even though i totally guessed it would happen (shower oracle)).

and before i get into what i didnt like im just going to say im not like siding with the you know twitter users youtube "reviewers" called like The Neckbeard Skeptic or something when it comes to this stuff. i thought the inclusion of rose as a trans character was a really good way to start the new era as a kind of warning to those kinds of people that they really wont enjoy it.

but with the representation came a couple lines which just struck me as.. off. the first was definitely rose basically calling the doctor out for assuming the meep is he/him. and like yeah thats a valid criticism to make. but if i were writing this episode i would absolutely not get the trans person to say that. it comes across as playing into the "did you just assume [the meep's] pronouns??" transphobic stereotype but i think knowing how many people would get mad at this i am fine with the line overall.

the next line was the line "binary binary / nonbinary" bit. i think its a cool callback and another neat way of pissing off the right people but honestly back in s4 that binary binary bit was a really devastating moment as you see the doctor's face and the music kicks in. playing off that moment as like a kind of gag just seems kinda messed up to me.

and the last one was the "male presenting time lord" thing. just seems like a twitterised version of feminism and the messages behind it. feminism is meant to be a deconstruction of gender as a social construct and its effects in society which manifest as eg the patriarchy. feminism is not when you go "you look like a man therefore youre bad". thats not feminism. in s4 this was explained as time lords "lacking that little bit of human" which i think just kinda makes more sense tbh.

i imagine this is kind of what it wouldve been like seeing series 1 back in 2005 and maybe back then jack harkness looked over the top or the whole thing felt in-your-face. maybe 18 years from now ill look back at this and think "wow. i thought that was a lot?" and i really hope so. but for now i just hope this was over the top to get rid of all the bigots before doctor who (2023-) REALLY begins.

anyway enough of the criticisms that make me sound like a 2017 anti sjw. i think donna and rose just being able to "get rid" of the metacrisis by just "letting it go" is honestly kind of stupid. i was expecting a lot more of a destiny plotline across the 3 specials that probably ended in donna about to die forever but only then the metacrisis is stopped or something (and i think the slower metacrisis could have explained this). but nope there it goes done and dusted in the first special. its not the direction i wouldve taken but its fine i suppose. im not the award winning writer here.

next its literally never explained where the doctors sonic comes from. he just kinda. has it. and thats fine i guess stuff happens sometimes but like. why is this sonic completely overpowered? a big criticism of the chibnall era was that the doctor was constantly just scanning stuff and going "hm yep blah blah" and instead of going back to the sonic being an occasional tool, its now able to create screens and forcefields and. what. but fine. whatever.

but now. big question. why does the tardis interior change? it didnt go up in flames or anything like in s5/s11 nor was the doctor feeling a change like in s7/s8. it just changes. but i guess the tardis was feeling like it or whatever. now the real controversial take. i dont really like the new interior. its just completely white. i know the original tardis interiors looked like that but it looks so plain. it looks like they only had that much built when they filmed it and hadnt finished. the lights make me like it more but it just seems kinda gimmicky tbh. im sure itll grow on me over time (or be changed in the ncuti era? pls).

anyway. i still really enjoyed the episode and i cannot wait for wild blue yonder (this has been the mystery episode for like over a year now) and the 2 more specials and 2 more series to come. doctor who is Going Places and id much rather those places be cheesy pronoun stuff than have bigots around the dw community.

if you read all that, you just wasted your time. also i love you

#ori is between meds #orifu v doccy who

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addictedtostorytelling · 2 years

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Personally, there's one subject I never "visit" in my head pertaining to GSR, and that's their divorce. I've always felt it was OOC and it was the one time TPTB screwed up. I've read you essay rationalizing it, and you've done a brilliant job, the best take on it I've read. I'd love to know- have you personally "accepted" it, eg do you believe that now that we've had (hopefully perpetual) happy ending for them, did divorce have a place to be at the time that it happened? Thanks very much!

hi, anon!

oh, god, not even a little have i accepted the divorce!

never will i.

it is by far my least favorite storyline of any on the whole show (and probably even of any of the shows i’ve ever watched), and episode 13x15 “forget me not” is, imo, one of the worst hours of television ever written—just a tire fire of a script.

though i’ve penned a rationalization of the divorce that begrudgingly tries to make sense of the canon, i will never believe it was the right move for the writers to have made and don’t think that my rationalization really works if we truly take into account how the characters actually would function, were they not being wielded by morons incorrectly.

grissom and sara, whose whole mo is “i literally cannot stay away from this person for long, even when i actively try to, as my love draws me to him/her like a super magnet and consistently, inevitably has done so for 15+ years now,” would never under any circumstances have chosen to live on separate continents from each other to begin with, so the entire premise for the divorce is a flawed one from the get-go.

the divorce was ooc, it was lazy, it was a bad-faith storytelling action, it was a poorly executed maneuver even for what it was trying to be, it was cruel to the fans, it was senseless for the characters, it was retrogressive for their developments, it was thematically indefensible given their histories*, it was narratively unnecessary, and ultimately it proved absolutely pointless since nothing about sara’s characterization or usage changed in its wake and it was eventually “undone” by the events of the original series finale anyway—to the point that the writers of the reboot could and did all but retcon it out of existence in csi: vegas s1.

* how could tptb possibly think it was okay, given sara’s backstory, to have the one person who had ever consistently loved her and who had become her touchstone and family and home abandon/reject her? how could they take away her happy ending that way and just act like it was nothing or even like it was fine for her? and especially when it would have been so easy for them simply not to do so? had they not been able to reverse the decision later on in “immortality” (i.e., had sara actually finished out the show alone, never having reconciled with grissom), the final message of her storyline would have been, “the girl who grew up believing that no one who fully knew her would ever love her forever and/or choose to stick around for her when things got hard was ultimately right to think that way,” which is just an egregiously shitty through-line; utterly cynical and mean.

* and don’t even get me started on why the divorce was thematically unforgiveable on grissom’s side of things, too.

while there are many other reasons why i disdain the later seasons of the original csi, as well—personally, i think tptb screwed up a lot during those days—the divorce is one of the biggest reasons why i do.

not only did it not need to happen, but it should never have happened at all.

in my personal headcanon, i completely ignore it.

it is not a part of my mental schema for these characters at all.

and in fact, i go as far as to reject basically anything that happens from episode 09x10 “one to go” on—or even prior to sara leaving vegas in s8, if i’m honest.

so while some fans have come to accept the divorce, i can’t and won’t. given how i understand these characters and the beats and themes of their story, it just doesn’t make sense to me. there’s nothing good about it. nothing justified. nothing that rings even a little bit true.

i’m more than happy to pretend the whole shitshow of a story arc never happened at all.

thanks for the question! please feel welcome to send another any time.

#answered #anon #asks: csi #**#my meta #meta: csi #meta: production #later seasons #season thirteen #let's talk shop #csiverse

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hopevalley · 4 years

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Season 8, Episode 1: Open Season

Work was busier than expected on Monday, but the deep dive into the first episode of S8 begins now!

Scene 1: Narration, Elizabeth and Nathan, Lucas

The awkwardness between Elizabeth and Nathan was...palpable at first lol.The best part about the non-narrated part of the scene is twofold: Nathan interacting with Jack is a well-needed and very nice touch, and of course it’s always nice to see that Nathan is patient concerning Elizabeth’s situation and reassures her that she can let him know when she’s ready to go to dinner with him.

My problem with the whole thing is that...if she hasn’t spoken up about wanting that dinner date yet, and she’s not saying yes she’d like to get dinner with you now, it’s like...any sane person would assume at this point in the story that Elizabeth isn’t interested in Nathan. Worse, Nathan isn’t the kind of man who wouldn’t take a hint. I’m pretty sure this is why the opening scene felt just a little bit off. I think they ought to have let Elizabeth be a little more enthusiastic about the idea while still failing to commit to it.

To be fair to the writers, I can’t imagine it was easy for them to figure out how to open this season after such a long time gap. They let a whole winter elapse between last season and this one. How do you explain literally no major development with the love triangle in that amount of time? Especially after the way the last season ended?

Random consideration: the camera focuses on Elizabeth’s face a lot and makes her wedding ring clearly visible.

Boom, the flashback with Lucas. I think having him leave out of jealousy was a better idea than having his mother fall ill (we’ve certainly seen that enough at this point), and maybe we should also consider the fact that while Lucas was gone, Nathan didn’t really jump on the opportunity to woo Elizabeth himself.

I wonder if we’ll get an explanation for that or not. What makes Lucas so sure that after 4+ months, Elizabeth hasn’t started courting Nathan? Maybe he kept in touch with someone in town? Or he just knows Elizabeth well enough to know she wouldn’t feel quite ready to commit in that time frame anyway?

I did really like Lucas’s opening scene with Elizabeth. Honestly, he was quite likable, here: admitting he was wrong, admitting his shortcomings, apologizing. All good things. “I’m ashamed I let my jealousy get the best of me... The worst of me.” That’s such a good line.

It didn’t feel equal in enthusiasm to the Nathan scene, but I’ll have more thoughts on that later. I do believe it was on purpose.

Scene 2: Clara and Jesse’s Fight, The Café

I like the concept of some marital discord for Clara and Jesse. Marriage is easier said than done and like any serious relationship, it’s a lot of consistent maintenance. It starts out pretty well, with Jesse sleeping in the other bedroom. At this point I fully expected to find out Clara kicks in her sleep or she snores a lot or something that’s funny to hear about but really difficult to actually deal with in real life. Color me disappointed later, but I’ll get to it.

Scene 3: The Mercantile, Ned, Florence, Carson

This just set up things with Faith’s situation so there’s not much to say, but as always I do love Florence. I hope she gets some good scenes this season. And I love Ned so I hope the same for him.

Henry coming in to mail a letter was interesting, though. I’m not sure it’ll mean anything in particular later, but...it’s possible. Then again, maybe he’s just here to set our expectations regarding Faith’s return (of course it’s a long trip from Chicago) or Carson’s worry (a bit unreasonable unless he expected to hear from her at a specific stop).

Scene 4: Nathan, Dylan

Dylan is such an incredible scumbag. The spurs were a nice touch. He says things almost fondly (“She’s growing up... My little girl.”) and then wants nothing to actually do with Allie.

The guy’s actually a pretty good actor. The way he segues into being glad for Allie’s sake that Nathan wasn’t the one killed. If the next words out of his mouth weren’t a demand for go-away money you’d almost feel those words were genuine!

Scene 5: Lee and Rosemary’s Return + Faith’s Return + Dylan Part Two

Lots of energy in this scene, both good and bad. I always appreciate what Lee and Rosemary bring to the show. I genuinely just don’t care that much about Faith. I’m ready to ship her with Cowboy Brett Brewer. He gets a name, which makes me wonder if he’s gonna show up again. :3

Lol at Carson’s jelly face:

I MEAN...

Not a fan of Faith’s outfit...but to be fair we’ve never really seen Faith outside of uniform. That just doesn’t strike me as something she would wear to travel in...?

Dylan approaching Jack and Jack speaking to him was so hilarious to me. “A puppy!” It’s extra funny after he looked afraid of Rosemary. Nathan intervening was undoubtedly for the best, but I can’t imagine why he would have approached Elizabeth or Jack. He doesn’t know who they are, or their connection to Nathan. Maybe too convenient. Might have been better to have him approach someone else entirely--like Opal.

Scene 6: Nathan and Allie

It’s great Nathan’s officializing the adoption but he had literal years to do this and only chooses now, when there’s a threat? Legally Dylan doesn’t have a leg to stand on even in that day and age (he did the abandoning in the first place + Nathan is a lawman)... It kind of ruined the cute moment for me, and I think it will come back in a bad way later.

I don’t mind Nathan’s inability to confide in Elizabeth in this situation. At this point, she doesn’t need to know, and the situation is just weird enough that he probably doesn’t think he needs to dump his own problems on her.

Scene 7: Carson and Faith

I’m the jerk who just chanted “BREAK UP BREAK UP BREAK UP” during this scene in my head. I just...don’t care about Faith and Carson.

Scene 8: Bill and The Gals

I hate that they keep retconning Bill’s ability to cook well with every passing season. In season 2 and 3 he was more than satisfactory. In S4 he made dinner for Dottie and it was really nice. Now he’s godawful and doesn’t taste his own shit before letting other people try it? Come on.

This is the kind of stuff the writing team needs to cut out of the story. It’s not funny.

Worse, outspoken Fiona lying to Bill? I just don’t see it. At least Molly told him the truth...but I still am just SO tired of seeing this shit. It makes me think new writers only watched the last couple of seasons instead of all of them.

Also, if Bill is literally running the cafe most of the time, if he was bad at cooking, then...the place would have shut down ages ago. What they should lean into if they wanna do a cooking joke is that Bill isn’t good at creating recipes from scratch. Maybe he doesn’t have a strong sense of taste (my husband has this issue so it’s the first thing that comes to mind) so he’s likely to over-do things like spice or sugar or salt on accident. There’s also a lot of room for jokes about his “taste” in things that can come of it (women, clothes, et cetera).

Scene 9: Lee’s Pants

Good scene, 10/10, wouldn’t change a thing. I hope this pants thing becomes a running gag. This is the good kind of humor I want in my life. And I like that Jesse wants to emulate Lee. It’s wholesome.

Scene 10: Rosemary and Clara

The ribbon as a tissue was funny, but it was just SLIGHTLY too over the top for me.

Scene 11: Faith and Carson Again...............

“Were you jealous of that cowboy?” I think he should be. The cowboy is better. I don’t give a damn about these characters. And I genuinely hate that the strumming is Carson’s Thing Now. At the very least we should get some Carson and Bill doing a duet together which would be cool.

It just felt like it was shilling Paul and had nothing to do with the characters.

Scene 12: Mmm Money

This is arguably the most interesting scene in the episode. Lucas nodded at Nathan. Nathan went to Lucas for money. Lucas didn’t need to get the scoop to find out why Nathan needed it to loan it to him. Elizabeth is officially the least interesting part of the love triangle.

They treat her like she’s such a prize to be won, but I’m starting to worry that she’s become the new Lorigail on the show.

Anyway this scene had some gay vibes and I liked them.

Scene 13: Rosemary and Elizabeth Catch Up

YES. GOOD SCENE. It starts off fun and it gets serious, and the transition feels really natural. “Did he have reason to be [jealous]?” I’m genuinely glad this is in the episode. It needed to be. I hope Rosemary continues to ask the hard questions.

Elizabeth needs to face either dating one of them, or dating neither of them so that everybody can get on with their lives. If you’re not that enthusiastic about either of them I’d say...maybe don’t date either of them idk.

Scene 14: Nathan and Bill Talk

"If he sees you with me, then...” The problem with this scene is uh...twofold, let’s say.

Issue 1: ThEN HE WILL WHAT, NATHAN? WHAT HAS HE EVER DONE BEFORE THAT WAS SO BAD if he’s not a hard criminal? Maybe an example would be useful here...?

Issue 2: The old Bill Avery would have heard “if he SEES YOU with ME” and mentally been like, “all right so it’s only bad if he SEES ME” and spied on Nathan.

Nathan wanting Bill to stay behind in case Dylan doubles back isn’t a terrible idea, but it almost comes across more like...the writers just want Nathan alone.

Scene 15: Oil

I like the discussion and that Hickam gets to do something. I feel like Henry is low-key advising against shooting the well, and that Lucas and Hickam will end up doing it and causing an issue. It’s just setting up for the future and it’s nice to see those kinds of scenes in the series again!

Scene 16: Jesse and Lee

I’d like this scene more if I felt it gave us ANY insight into the problem Jesse and Clara are having. It mostly comes across like Jesse gets home and does nothing at all until bedtime and Clara is lonely. Could have been a better scene. It’s mostly just repetitive right now.

Scene 17: Nathan Cancels the Date

“Tomorrow’s Saturday.” Nathan’s like uhhhhh. This actually works really well to do what it’s supposed to do. By that I mean, he seems “off” so Elizabeth realizes he’s a bit stressed and leaving town = mountie business = dangerous.

I kind of wish Rosemary and Elizabeth would talk more about this, but maybe that’s coming in an episode soon...?

Scene 18: The Barbershop

Just a cute nice scene that shows a good friendship between Fiona, Clara, and Faith. I like this stuff. Keep it coming, Hallmark!

(Skipping Scene 19 because it’s just Nathan riding around...)

Scene 20: Lee and Rosemary Scheme

I really enjoyed this little bit where they decide to buy something for Clara and Jesse and we don’t get to see what it is. Super wholesome and very fun!

Scene 21: Nathan gets Ambushed

This scene was absolutely wild. Probably one of the best scenes like this that they’ve ever done. Dylan taking Nathan’s hat, “Take care of my little girl” after he takes the money and Nathan’s gun. It was super good.

Also, not too fake that Nathan was on the ground that long. If you got roped off of your horse you’d have the wind knocked out of you super hard lmao.

Scene 22: Bill & The Girls

Clara and Fiona are so cute. Bill playing the “Dad” figure to them both is really nice and it’s good for him. “I’m a lawman. I get to sneak.” What a Bill response.

(Skipping Scene 23 since it’s just Nathan finding his horse.)

Scene 24: Lucas visits with Elizabeth

Lucas and Elizabeth are flirting via a nursery rhyme. I...don’t like that LOL. But Lucas’s “Helen Bouchard taught me to read and after that I was on my own.” She really sounds unloving. This was a pretty decent scene, though.

Also, Grand Isle Louisiana had a major hurricane in 1909 and 1915.

They also seem to have been hit by more mild hurricanes in 1916 and 1917, but the 1915 one was a Cat4, so...the most notable.

Scene 25: Rosemary and Lee in the Dress Shop

This tries to solve the issue of Clara and Jesse’s marital problems, but it doesn’t actually do that. “Let Jesse read when he gets home.” “I’ll talk to Jesse.” Meh.

Scene 26: Barbershop

“Why do this when you’re so good with women’s hair?” I fully expected Fiona to say, “That’s where all the hot gossip is, of course.” I do like her gumption, though!

Scene 27: Nathan Finds Dylan

“I had to let you ambush me, so I had grounds to put you away.” COLD BUT EFFECTIVE. I appreciate this.

Imagine getting to be this smug. I wish it were me.

Anyway, long-term thoughts on this are mostly that...there is just no reasonable way Dylan’s story is over yet. It’s too juicy of a storyline to let go this easily. Allie is going to find out what Nathan did and she’s going to struggle to come to terms with it, especially after her grandfather really did try to turn his life around. Why couldn’t it be the same for her father? Why couldn’t she get lucky like that?

I hope it feels satisfying, whatever they choose to do. Otherwise this was just wrapped up too neatly/too quickly.

Scene 28: Nathan Returns

Very good scene. Nathan’s in a good mood and he does my favorite trope of all time when one person in the relationship has a child: “Why don’t we all go?” You already all know each other, so why not? It’s wholesome and good, and it shows he doesn’t care how he gets to spend time with Elizabeth, as long as he does.

Also, it takes a lot of the pressure off of her for the duration of the date and at its conclusion. This was a cute and good scene, one of the better they’ve had, I think.

Scene 29: Jesse and Lee Talk

This was a nice attempt at a talk, but it really comes off like Jesse has stopped loving Clara for no reason. That his romantic interest in her is what is causing the failure in their relationship.

The problem is: WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IS CAUSING IT. NOBODY EVER SAID.

I agree that love isn’t “just” a feeling or “just” an emotion. It’s ALSO a choice. Marriage is a commitment you choose to continue every day. That is all good.

“Choose love. Then you feel it.” is probably some of the worst dialogue they’ve put in the show, though. Yuck. It left a bad taste in my mouth. It feels like it’s shaming people who legitimately fall out of love or who are in bad relationships. “If only you chose to work harder.”

I don’t think that was their intention at all, but it really soured the scene. I would have MUCH rather have had Lee get Jesse to talk about what’s wrong and then offer him pointers on how he could do better. Maybe he’s stressed out and losing himself in books, or he wishes Clara would sit and read with him because that’s something he always wanted. Or maybe Clara would be down for reading time if he read to her while she did her sewing.

There’s so much they could have done here to really send this home, but it didn’t work very well. At the very least Lee could have said, instead of ‘choose love’: CHOOSE COMMUNICATION. Make sure she knows you still feel that way about her.

The biggest thing is like, Lee could also be very encouraging in saying like, the honeymoon phase doesn’t last forever but just because things settle down doesn’t mean the love is less.

THERE IS SO MUCH GOOD STUFF THEY COULD HAVE WRITTEN FOR THIS but they chose “Choose love. Then you feel it.” WTF. That’s awful advice.

Scene 30: Jesse and Clara

Him bringing her flowers was a nice touch, and her getting him the book was also nice. The tandem bike was SO unexpected to me and I loved it. It’s just goofy enough that it works. The best part is that they know it’s not going to fix anything, but it’s still a fun and nice thing to do, and that’s wonderful for Rosemary and Lee. They both like to make the people they care about happy.

Scene 31: Mama Bouchard

MILF ALERT.

Elizabeth is just so shook at all of this she doesn’t say a damn thing for so long it made my palms feel sweaty.

“Someone ought to take an interest in your writing, don’t you think?” I rewatched the episode to understand the tone, and it’s a little hoity-toity/uppity, but she actually doesn’t sound condescending. It’s good for an editor to meet the author, after all, and meet to talk about their writing/book. This has always been custom, even in the early 1900s. Authors didn’t usually get their work published by an editor they’d never met (though of course, you will find some exceptions).

From the little we saw, Helen seems fine. The preview for the next episode tells us she’s UH, AN EDITOR DOING HER JOB, so I’m not looking forward to the editor being the bad guy, but I guess I’ll have to deal with that when it arrives. (To be clear, Elizabeth has never proved to the audience that she’s a Good Writer, let alone a Great Writer. She’s also not experienced which means her work probably NEEDS SOME WORK.)

Anyway, Elizabeth is immediately rude as HELL. Nobody can make an excuse for this. Helen isn’t THAT big of a deal. There are other publishers. Your father is filthy rich. If she changes her mind about your book you can pub to someone via your father if you have to. Like...Helen wouldn’t have taken you on if she didn’t see any potential in you.

Even if it was a big deal, Elizabeth has NEVER been a flake. EVER.

This is a classic case of a writer forcing the character to go out of character in order to bend to what the plot dictates.

If I were Nathan, I’d drop Elizabeth like a brick.

How to fix this scene? I’ll honestly have to think about that for a while. This was the first hint of truly bad writing this season. The bit with Lee and “choose love” was careless writing, but this scene with Nathan is just Bad.

The thing is, I KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING. I know they put this in there so that it looks like she’ll choose Lucas because she never even goes out with Nathan, and then BOOM. I know it’s meant to be this big thing about how she’s scared to feel anything for Nathan because Lucas is the safer option and also a good man (so why would she fall for the more frightening option?).

But this was not the right way to do this type of scene. I hope to God in the next episode someone says something about it. Allie could tell her it was rude and it hurt Nathan’s feelings/you shouldn’t have said yes if you didn’t want to. It’d be fully in character for her. Rosemary could also say something similar. If they do, I might be able to forgive this...but if it’s not called attention to by the other characters, then it’s a massive failure as a scene to me.

Did I miss anything? Do you want my thoughts on something in particular? Shoot me a message HERE and I’ll do my best to answer!

#when calls the heart #long post #season 8 shenanigans #season 8 spoilers #episode write ups

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rueitae · 4 years

Text

Writing Roundup 2020

This is a writing reflection I’ve been doing for myself every year for the last four years. Its a positive boost to myself see how far I’ve come and look back on my progress for the past year and look forward to the new year.

Everyone is welcome to use this same format if they’d like to do the same!

~~~~~~~

Stats:

Words written:

330,000, which is nearly half of all the words I’ve written on Ao3 in the last three years.

One Shots Posted (all fics plance unless otherwise stated):

In the Arms of the Ever(pink?) Tree (4463 words)

For the Plance Secret Santa exchange. Post s8 date/not date on a snowy moon. Love confession.

Birthday Treats (2129 words)

For Pidge’s birthday this year! Domestic family fluff, breakfast in bed, plance kids.

Begin Again (Together) (4805 words)

Canon divergence from before episode one! Pidge and Lance are established dating when alien intervention brings them to where they are supposed to be: with the Blue Lion. Just a brief look into what the AU would look like.

Common Ground (4521 words)

A treat for my friends who introduced me to Magic Knight Rayearth and pointed out some fun character parallels. There is this beautiful art Arya made to go with it because we’re all trash for both series. Plance meet up with Fuu and Ferio post series for both couples.

Bonded To You (1808 words)

For the Langstron Halloween Exchange! Established plance with a baby Lance is trying to keep safe from a witch who would take advantage of the child’s heritage.

It Tasted Good (6785 words)

Pikelavar for Pikelavar Month! The premise is crack, but it's mostly treated seriously. Pike ate the Jewel of Jitan by accident and doesn’t realize it until Haggar finds them. Meklavar gets Protective.

The Remainder of Days (3188 words)

Part of my Bad Things Happen Bingo. Fantasy AU where Pidge is a minor forest goddess and Lance is her neighbor mortal farmer.

I Love You a Lily More Each Day (3232 words)

Another of the Bad Things Happen Bingo. Canon compliant where Lance is undercover at a flower shop and knee deep in an illegal smuggling operation.

Lease on Life (4978 words)

This one was also part of Bad Things Happen Bingo and was an experiment. It’s POV of an oldest plance kid, canon verse. Her parents’ Paladin days come back to haunt them one night. Some cute family stuff too in there.

Ready to Dance (4135 words)

For the Valentine’s Day exchange! Post series. Lance tries to get back into the party scene and Pidge rescues him from a disastrous night.

Loopholes (5476 words)

Technically I didn’t write this fic this year, but a very kind reader asked if I would post this to Ao3, so it was my first fic of the year on Ao3. It’s Lotura! Originally a gift for a dear friend I’ve had since elementary school. It’s a fantasy AU where Lotor stumbles into Allura’s kingdom needing help.

Next to Me (7311 words)

Also for Bad Things Happen Bingo, this is probably one of my favorite fics of the year. This is the canon verse AU that went all wrong in s7, and Sendak succeeds in destroying Earth. Lance and Pidge end up not only his prisoners, but also two of the last humans in the universe. Ends open ended, but it became a series in the end!

Into Me (14248 words)

The sequel to the above fic. There are two versions, this and the one below. The title tells all. Lance and Pidge come to terms with their new life aboard Sendak’s flagship and do their best to keep the other comforted.

Into Me (non-explicit version) (7228 words)

Exactly the same as the fic above, only this one is SFW

Sunshine (3831 words)

A Bad Things Happen Bingo! One of my favorite concepts. Canon verse. Pidge gets sick while she and Lance are on a scientific mission.

Showoff (635 words)

A really short fic for a friend on their birthday, featuring their plance kids!

Respite of the Heart (4181 words)

A fic I have been wanting to write for a very long time. I love the concept of Pidge as a Disney Princess in the sense she has the forest guardian theme and all these animals love her. So there’s some play on that as the Paladins stop for lunch on their journey back to Earth in early s7. Lance comes to a realization and they have a chat surrounded by the animal friends. @anchoredtetherart did a phenomenal piece to accompany it. Please look at it in awe here.

The Hardest Part (3960 words)

For Bad Things Happen Bingo! An AU of the episode The Reunion where Pidge doesn’t return when she’s supposed to.

A Planned Sacrifice (4988 words)

Another Bad Things Happen Bingo. Canon verse. Pidge assumes that being a sacrifice for the ‘forest god’ is strictly ceremonial and at worst a wild animal. It’s actually Sendak, who no one has seen since Shiro shot him out of the Castle. He remembers Pidge and is far too pleased to see her again, tied up on a silver platter.

Almost Forgotten, but Not Gone (3946 words)

Bad Things Happen Bingo. AU sometime in s1 where Haxus isn’t as dead as Pidge thought.

Touch (7519 words)

Written for the Lance Goes Boom bang! It was inspired by @fenixseraph ‘s amazing art here! It’s a different take on The Way Forward, where Pidge and Lance are separated from the rest of the team and placed in their own cell. And the Red Lion causes issues.

Chaptered Fics started/added to:

Wolf In Thieves’ Clothing (4516 words)

An AU of The Castle of Cagliostro from Lupin the Third series. Lee, you have my thanks forever for making me watch this finally. Pidge is a literal princess whose kingdom is in the middle of an internal coup. Lance is a gentleman thief who rides with his best buds Hunk and Matt. Their paths are destined to cross again when Lance goes back to the castle he used to call home.

Game of Love (4593 words)

The most crack of the bunch. AU of Fall the of the Castle of Lions where Sendak and Haxus get away with it all. Pidge and Lance are prisoners on Haxus’ new ship, and Lance finds an opportunity for eventual escape when he learns that Haxus has a crush on his second in command. Operation matchmaker begins. (happy ending planned for all)

What Tides May Bring (20704 words)

Collab with the fantastic @anchoredtetherart for MerMay! Established plance as mermaids and guardians of their elements with adorable mer child. Then angst because they are all captured by a ‘research’ institute.

Seasons of Magic (16546 words)

I actually added a chapter this year! Ongoing collection of one-shots with mage Pidge who lives in the country and cultivates her plant magic and makes potions with the assistance of her dragon familiar, Lance. Mostly domestic fluff.

Too Soon and Not Soon Enough (11438 words)

Added another chapter this year to my Keith-centric AU. It’s basically VLD but five years early and they’re all literally child Paladins. Keith gets to meet Krolia earlier and its fun to go into tween friendships as they try and navigate the reality of their situation.

Seeds (48833 words)

Added a ton earlier this year. A collection of plance fics all or mostly under 500 words. All meant to be adopted by others if interest strikes. Covers many genres.

Chaptered Fics Finished:

Resolve to Fly (75799 words)

Written for the Pidge Angst Bang. My artist @alchemie0 did an outstanding job capturing the feel of the fic. Look at the art here! Canon verse AU where Pidge encounters Haxus, who has crashed on Earth. She helps him repair his ship in excitement and good faith, which he pays back by kidnapping her. For two years she survives as little more than a housepet on Sendak’s ship. Gen.

Who's Protecting Who? (28989 words)

Also technically not written this yeah, but posted. A collab with Hush waaaay back in 2018. It's a plance Altean AU with Pidge as distant royalty and Lance as a bodyguard.

A Dish Served Cold (21533 words)

Finally finished this one! Canon verse in which Pidge accidentally runs into Sendak on an isolated planet. Sendak takes advantage of this encounter and tries to return to the Empire with her in tow. Much Pidge whump. Gen

Reflections:

Best title

I still really really love Too Soon and Not Soon Enough (11438 words). Because it's too soon for the Paladins to be Paladins, and for Keith it's not nearly soon enough for Krolia to return. It just feels like it has a lot of heart to it. I hope I can keep it going, but my ideas are incredibly scattered for it.

Worst title

Touch (7519 words). Yeah it’s a play on ‘Don’t you touch her’ but it feels soooo dry.

Best/worst last line

Best: This was really, really hard choice this year, but ultimately, making up for the terrible title, its Touch (7519 words)

“It feels good to escape the ship with all of his teammates, secure in the knowledge that he has a way forward not just as a Paladin, but also with Pidge.”

- Not only did I manage to fit the title of the episode in there, it's got that hopeful tinge to it and reflects on personal growth both internally and with Pidge.

Worst: This one isn’t necessarily bad from Begin Again (Together) (4805 words), but it could be better. It didn’t get quite the epic sense I was hoping to pull from it.

“Okay,” he smirks, hand firmly on the throttle. “Operation save Earth starts now.”

Looking back, did you write more fics than you thought you would this year, less than you thought, or about what you predicted?

Definitely wrote way more. Even with posting two fic that are essentially the exact same, I still ended up writing nearly half of my total Ao3 word count this year. (330,000/670,000). Doing Bad Things Happen Bingo was a bit part of that - I was very inspired at the beginning of this year - but also there were many events I participated in (8 total!!) on top of my personal projects.

What’s your favorite story this year? Not the most popular, but the one that makes you the happiest.

A really hard decision this year, because there are several that make me really happy. I think oddly enough though, it’s Game of Love (4593 words) because of its potential and how much crack it is. It has such whacky rom-com energy to it but also that underlying angst of the situation I can fall back on. My favorite trope to explore is what happens to the characters when they’re captured. I just really enjoy the concept and the challenge to make such a concept believable with minimal suspension of belief.

Okay, NOW your most popular story.

Using kudos as my gauge (and not counting the chapter fics), the winner is:

Respite of the Heart (4181 words)

Not surprising because Ivy’s art is STUNNING.

Story most underappreciated by the universe?

I think that’s It Tasted Good (6785 words), the pikelavar fic. Pikelavar is underappreciated in general

Story that could have been better?

For all I was excited to write Sunshine (3831 words), it didn’t quite fall the way I had imagined in my mind. I don’t know if it was the structure or I was running out of steam or what. All i know is that I wanted more but all I could concentrate on was that scene where he’s caring for her in bed. Maybe I was just too ambitious.

Sexiest story?

No brainer it's Into Me (14248 words). Literally. Which really shocked me that it happened. Didn’t think I’d write any smut at all, let alone this year. This particular fic just kinda called out for it

Saddest story?

The prequel to the above fic: Next to Me (7311 words). How much more sad can you get than Earth being destroyed, being Sendak’s prisoners all while trying to tell each other ‘i love you’ without seeming weird because you’re the last humans in the universe.

Most fun?

I think it's Ready to Dance (4135 words). Just Valentine’s fluff and impromptu slow dancing in the park at night.

Story with single sweetest moment?

I’m picking What Tides May Bring (20704 words). Listen, mer Lance and mer Pidge playing with their mer baby in their domestic paradise is probably one of my favorite things I’ve ever written. Dad Lance has my heart.

Hardest story to write?

The last chapter of A Dish Served Cold (21533 words) was like pulling teeth. I’m pretty happy with it in the end but at the time man it was so hard.

Did you take any writing risks this year? What did you learn from them?

I wrote smut. It was...weird? But also strangely calming. I wrote more for another fic but it's still a WIP. I definitely need to be in the mood to write it.

Proudest Achievement:

The Pidge Angst Bang. Resolve to Fly (75799 words). Look at that word count. I only wanted something under 3k at first, so it was just going to be Pidge meeting Haxus. But by the time I finished that part it was already 10k. So even though I was going through a rough part of my life, I just kept going and it ended up being my therapy. I’m really proud of the fic and I love my artists’ pieces. It really lifted my spirits. (You should all really go check out the Ao3 collection of all the bang stories and art they are AMAZING you won’t regret. If you love Pidge angst they are all must reads.)

What are your fic writing goals for next year?

I’d like to finish my Bad Things Happen Bingo card and then focus on my current WIP, that includes the Seeds collection. There are days I still feel a bit overwhelmed, and I’m still trying to find a routine after moving. I’d like to do more events too, but I think I need to be more selective about which ones I do. I don’t want to burn myself out.

Apart from that, I’d really like to try and give back to the community more. I’d like to start consciously writing fics for others without an event to go by.

Past Years:

2017

2018

2019

#plance #pidgance #rueitae #writing roundup #my writing #vld #2020 writing roundup

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incarnateirony · 4 years

Note

In what season and episode did you realised that Destiel went from subtext to actual text?

Difficult question really. I don’t exactly have a magic switch of some weird personal set goalpost I have, and frankly, wasn’t even really a shipper, just defended shippers, until... 13.5/6. I think I started slipping after 12.19 because I’m not a moron, I don’t live under a rock, I have eyes and know what the fuck a mixtape means to Gen X. But I kept it at arms reach because even Carver era was so totally subtextual-- atop all the stuff that got cut S10 after the S9 blowout, I didn’t exactly want to invest myself as much as point out shippers weren’t crazy for seeing what they saw, especially S8/9+ and even prior the resonance of the hero’s journey over our entire human civilization and historical othering of queerness made earlier readings or notices of it completely fair even if not really like, directional by the crew?

But to begin, Carver era was when I saw /intentful and meritful construction of the body of text, via subtext, to subtextually tell a story with classic queer coding./ Because a lot of what this fandom calls queer coding makes me want to hide my face behind a quantum hole of facepalms and is often like, pretty much the reverse of what should be advocated or considered. All those retro old “he’s been written as queer from S1″ make me want to kick puppies or something because oh my god it’s Not Good, most of the content there is Very Bad And Hugely Problematic, and it’s an attempt to retroactively prove what old canon was doing without any substance.

Carver era was the shift to substance, but silent substance. Subtext that’s genuinely thematically scaffolded into the storyline in a way that while the events themselves were largely cued on subtext, consideration of that subtext was critical to understanding the full body of text and people that refused to grow into and adapt with that text as the tone shifted are the ones that got more and more confused and angry.

Dabb era was the threshold crossing into (often low-visibility) text. Fandom intentionally arguing points that require complete removal from social structures (which is everything from regional meanings of major symbols, social codes, language, or why-letters-mean-things) doesn’t mean shit doesn’t mean what it means. A mixtape isn’t subtext any more than getting on one knee and popping open a box is subtext even if they don’t verbalize the words. We know what these fucking things mean and anyone who doesn’t is in DESPERATE need of going outside and experiencing the real world before making any kind of social commentary on a body of text.

When it comes to dialogue text, Last Call is where Bi Dean or at least Queer Umbrella Dean was textualized. Again, it doesn’t matter if people don’t understand the long argued history that was put to bed about repeat sexual encounters with men, it doesn’t matter what the gender of the other triplets were, literally none of that matters. It doesn’t matter if the person understands it. It doesn’t matter if they know their queer culture enough to know their arguments were already buried. It is what it is.

There’s this disillusionment that unspoken physicalized shit like kissing or sex, or verbalized ones like “I love you,” but “I love you, in a gay way, specifically and only you, and want to be romantic with you” because every other statement of the like so far has people crying or arguing about it as not enough either.

These things are nice, but it is not the only way to deliver a textual romance. These are things we want and deserve, and people aren’t wrong for wanting them, the only wrong comes in deleting other text because it isn’t the style of text they want. 100% unhelpful.

Text in AV is complex. No matter how decontextualized people try to pretend this all is, throwing pasta at the wall and calling it an argument worth validating, AV media study doesn’t just incorporate social codes on shit like dialogue -- though anyone that applies those social codes wouldn’t be arguing anyway, as per my old post on that -- but visual language and TV literacy are a long studied topic and are just as relevant as understanding of textual/verbal language and having textual literacy. People trying to eschew these in the interest of favoring fanspaces to try to keep them equal within the canon, which is NOT what fandom space equality is supposed to be about, is just... lol.

When that soap opera reporter that doesn’t even watch the show wandered in commenting on the full mise en scene of the 15.03 breakup being classical “Dark Point in the Romance” framing, that’s not subtext. In a book, characters aren’t running around on a blank canvas. Their environments are the text.

What people may draw symbolically out of an environment varies, and if someone’s /interpretation/ holds up, that’s fine. But being able to digest the entire presentation of a work, that is to say, to read an entire scene in a book and understand their setting and the relevance of that setting is simply a form of text. And when literal fucking randos can spot classic cinematography, it’s time to consider what the full cinematic framework is telling you both in incremental minutiae of texts and in the full body of work.

So basically, I acknowledged lowkey text based on the most basic understanding of social codes, by 12.19, even if I was still kinda eyerolling about it. By 13.5/6, Castiel returned to Dean in something later echoed by Eileen for the zoom shot, but the rest of the arrangement was verbatim identical to the original ending of Swan Song with Lisa, with the only difference being “Never too late” wasn’t a verbal line, but an entire sound track they applied to highlight the scene.

Despite the Swan Song parallel ending reactives went up in arms about the fact that they weren’t having big romantic moments anymore and kinda failed to wrap braincases around the fact that the endgame reunion that was literally the ORIGINAL endgame shot, which ALSO didn’t include physicality (in fact, the text read, “this isn’t sexual at all. He’s a lost soul, and she’s his home” in the script for Lisa), and this dumbass fandom would go “SEE PROOF THAT MEANS THE TEXT MEANS IT WASNT SEXUAL AND HE JUST BECAME BEST FRIENDS THAT WAS HER BEDWARMER MAYBE SHE HAS COLD FEET AT NIGHT” and that’s not how this fucking WORKS. Common sense is NOT removed from fucking discussion and what sense is applied needs to be levelly-- again, social codes.

So at 13.5/6 I had considered it textually paramount to the original endgame arrangement. S14 was just... blatant ass domesticity. Dean got his happy ending. He had his family. He got his win, his everything. They spoke frequently in the kitchen -- only vaguely over cases, more slapping around idioms, eyerolling over barbarous eating, and occasionally discussing how to raise their son. In fact, if you look at non-research-non-casework S14 kitchen scenes I’m gonna let you sit there and map out what all those domestic moments in the heart of the kitchen was, minding 13.5/6.

It was something gained. It was their life. And it was something to lose. 14.18 already advert framed it, we all saw it. Troubled family. People delete history of what is connected where to pretend “we” is vague or makes the romance any less of a canon piece and lmao guys

And season 15 is their year long run where they’re spearheading a huge part of the plot and will be a critical final resolution.

Speaking of 13.5/6 and social codes, anyone remember that Jack hadn’t met Dave Mather and looked at one nonphysical picture of them and recognized “he’s her boyfriend”? SOCIAL CODES MEAN SHIT GUYS.

So there’s no magic moment. There’s S8/9 coding and subtext. There’s S12′s tape and other elements -- tape is just the easiest to nail down but several through the year tbh -- there’s S13′s Never Too Late, and all things that followed that in waterfall. There’s S14′s established domesticity with Castiel having essentially moved into the bunker, something that wasn’t even entirely established in S12 yet even if he was more frequent there than Carver era.

Without social codes, I could argue that “Dean loves pie” doesn’t actually mean he loves pie. In fact, I could argue those letters mean nothing, because basic social codes are what even give words meanings. Without them these are just squiggly lines on a screen. If I eschew social codes, I could take a “love me some pie” line from Dean and say it means he fornicates with children and make long convoluded excuses around it instead of the observable fucking fact that Dean fucking Winchester likes goddamn pie.

Waiting for your perfect personally dreamed magic moment for a landmark to call text generally disregards the full body of the text and merit of the work. The amount of time and effort this FUCKING shipping fandom has put into -- even Destiel shippers -- bashing down and calling blatant ass text subtext because it’s not the text they want -- just because they want to argue with people that threw the logic baby out with the destiel bathwater they thought was dirty -- it’s fucking embarrassing tbqh. Imagine if people’s competitive fandom BS was muted how anyone here would be addressing this body of text.

Like. “After Carver directed Misha to play Castiel as a jilted lover in season 9, Cain through S10 escalated it into Castiel as Colette, which was confirmed by both the author and actors, seating him as a lover, as Sam was Abel the brother; by season 11, pining and connected hearts becomes the driving theme of the show, repeatedly denounced both in text and showrunner commentary that it wasn’t Amara that was that romance, and instead, a different one rose; by season 12, domestic arguments were many, mixtapes were shared, coming into rooms and playing people for things secretly stashed under pillows were a hinging plot moment, by season 13 he was the Never Too Late Big Win as a far more powerful version of Lisa, by season 14 Castiel moved in, by season 15 their giant sacred marriage euchartist ceremonies on repeat are driving the entire body of the season while overtly making the straight pairing a secondary parallel to the primary Dean and Castiel pairing by 15.09 such as the AU scene, or the ending where they mimicked the same phrase, truncated by physicality. But anyone viewing this text is an adult not competing for their preferred fandom playbox to be considered in the text, and had eyeballs, saw Sam and Eileen were clearly courting, flirting, and/or romantically engaged for a long time before this.”

Can we hope for the equality in that, sure. I want that, sure. That doesn’t erase all the other modes of text before that though.

But there, I just addressed 4 consecutive seasons of storytelling as its stands in the critical themes, without breaking down the dozens of independent scenes themselves that have already been analyzed to death and yall have scorched in your eyeballs by now like angels have prophet names.

I’ve seen people desperately, desperately try to reinterpret this text, or this story structure, in inconsistent ways that fall short. They’re never held accountable for their entire shit falling flat on their face, they just keep building new shit that falls on its face too and keep using it as a base. People can *interpret* ~text~ however they want. Anyone that tells you that “true text is inarguable” is either an idiot or selling you something for your subscription to their blog. Anyone CAN make any jackass interpretation of anything they want.

So sure. You can make some nonsensical explanation around every core theme their relationship is shadowed by, removing all social codes and context from basic elements understood by adult human beings natively, whatever. You can take 200 pages writing around it and degaying it. Generally when I see this, I see unhinged, incomplete writings with no central thread, just a thousand disembodied excuses that don’t even make a story. They’re just that. Desperate excuses. Years of it at this point. And they’re free to /interpret the text like that/ if they want. But that’s their /interpretation/ of a /text/ and as-above generally in /intentional, willful, conscious denial and erasure of the basic social codes we all understand./

Just because they /can/ warp the most left field interpretation doesn’t make it not text. If I pulled an “I don’t know I can’t english suddenly” and threw those codes out the window that doesn’t mean that the shit doesn’t mean the shit it means just because it’s inconvenient to me lmao

And this isn’t necessarily at you, Nonnie, I just feel the need to expand on this because any single time I don’t nail down these conversational stakes, someone breezes through and intentionally hotboxes the conversation to go down these very predictable manipulations and extremizations of the conversation that I really am far too tired to repeat the arguments raging in my mentions again, so I head ‘em off before the shit ever reblogs.

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leakinghate · 6 years

Text

Chasing the Ghosts of Season 8

Let’s skip the flowery intros and get to the point, because this is important.

Lotor’s vindication and reunion with Allura were originally part of VLD s8 and I can prove it. Most animation relating to this plot was excised, while other clips were re-purposed to make it look like he was dead all along: but some are still in there.

The removal of this plot line was one of the major factors in completely messing up season 8, and it was a change that was made very recently; no earlier than August in fact. There is a significant, non-zero chance that an unedited version of Season 8 exists in its entirety; completely finished.

The evidence is below the cut.

Trigger Warnings: Gore - that image and discussion of it, body horror, sexism, and major character death.

There’s something rotten in the house of Voltron, and by that I mean Dreamworks animation, because for reasons yet unknown the season 8 we got was not the one the writers had planned to give us.

The people involved likely can't talk about it due to NDAs, but I follow *most* of the cast and crew on social media, and from the way many of them were talking prior to the drop it’s obvious that whatever they'd recorded had led them to expect a very different season.

The almost total radio silence afterward is also telling.

So far as I can tell, AJ (Lotor’s VA) is the only one actively posting about it, and his posts have been expressing his distress over what happened to Lotor - a stark contrast to his excitement about the season prior to its airing. It’s very apparent that he thought Lotor would have a very different fate than he appears to. At the moment of the season drop he tweeted out “Lotor was framed”, and later didn’t seem to realize that ‘Allura’ was trending because she’d died.

Some of the other VA’s scarce posts lead me to believe that they’re having similar reactions: a now deleted post from Bex (Pidge’s VA) about having watched up to episode 6 consisted of an image of DOTU Lance captioned with “[internal screaming]”. Bex has since removed all references to VLD from her bio.

I’m certain that the VLD s8 we got was NOT the s8 that was originally planned. Or the one the writers and VAs had been alluding to in various interviews up until recently.

We know there were some very last minute changes to season 8. I guarantee you that Ezor was actually dead before the backlash over Adam in August, and you're kidding yourselves if you think that epilogue existed before then either.

Kihyun Ryu's 'last Shiro' tweet - that we now know to be from the wedding epilogue - was posted on September 13th, 2018. Less than two months ago these changes were still in progress. Less than a month before the first trailer premiered at NYCC these changes were still being made.

And those was absolutely not the only things which were changed. It was hinted we should pay attention to the s7 episode "the Feud" to spot some foreshadowing. Well? I've seen both that episode and s8 and I sure as heck can't find it.

This was beyond last minute.

JDS and LM were still talking in ways that would lead us to expect Lotor’s redemption roughly up to s7 in August; so whatever happened, it went down between August and November. Which is probably why s8 is so shitty; with such a terribly compressed timeline to make edits.

And edits they were, because with those time frames season 8 was either completely finished or very near to it when someone decided that things had to change.

I can prove it.

Do you know how?

Because the animation was recycled and altered to fit the new story, with only small parts made new for it. And because it was something else first, it’s still possible to partially reconstruct the original Season 8 from it.

Lets start with the big one, the one I’m sure you’re here to read: Lotor’s redemption and reunion with Allura.

One of the most frustrating things about season 8 is that it leaves the colony unexplained. The big question, the thing that results in Lotor’s murder at the hands of people he calls friends, and leads to a power vacuum that causes the deaths of untold billions of people. What was Lotor doing at the colony?

It’s never addressed or given an answer.

At least in the version of season 8 that we got.

Or is it?

Because they might have removed the conclusion to that plot thread, but they couldn’t get rid of it entirely.

In e8 ‘Clear Day’. Allura's suffers from several nightmares/dream sequences. They don't make any sense in context, and it’s never explained what caused them. Except, they make perfect sense, if you watch them as the first step towards understanding The Colony.

Allura sees herself standing in a Juniberry field on Altea. Her mother greets her and proclaims that Allura has arrived just in time, and that only she can save them, “Only you can protect us.”

A Galra fleet passes over head, raining down laser fire.

Allura suddenly finds herself the pilot of one of the white mechs. She plunges her spear into the ground, draining the quintessence, and then fires on the fleet; obliterating it.

But as she grins in victory she realizes that the quintessence she siphoned from the planet has turned her immediate landscape to ash, including her mother. Allura is horrified, but as her mother crumbles away her voice echoes, telling Allura she is so proud of her.

In case me describing it wasn’t clear enough: what just happened to her was that Allura was literally put in Lotor’s position, operating one of his mechs. The places and the people were those that Allura cherished deeply, so that she could understand how terrible Lotor felt about what he had to do. It literally puts Allura in Lotor's place: having to take the responsibility of destroying parts of something she loves in order to protect the whole.

And her mother? The Altean who was ‘sacrificed’ in this scenario? Praised her for taking the actions she did, because Allura was the only one able to do it. And the only choice was to save most of Altea, or none of it.

When Allura eventually does take the entity into herself we see the lights of Honerva’s mech’s faceplate lighting, then flash to a scene of Lotor in Sincline. He’s laughing, grinning as he did during s6′s finale, and as the camera zooms in on his face he shouts “Follow me!”

Briefly we see Voltron in front of the planets of Earth’s solar system, which is drowned out by a peculiar scene transition: an intense white light that appears to obliterate everything as though in an explosion.

None of these scenes are ever explained, but it’s reasonably comparable to the flash of images that Haggar sees in season 3 when she is first confronted with Zarkon’s memories. We’re left with the impression that we’re about to be enlightened, and the end of the episode reveals that Allura has passed out on the floor unconscious.

In this version of season 8, we never are told what exactly caused Allura to experience those visions. We can guess: was it perhaps the entity tempting her with its dark magic? Honerva attempting to place her under a spell?

But is the entity really dark magic? It’s different from the types of magic we’re used to, and the colors of it are certainly dark, but it in itself never actually causes Allura harm. Any harm she suffers after taking it into herself is caused by Honerva exploiting it.

Could it be a spell by Honerva? Unlikely. It took her almost two whole episodes of the paladins fooling around inside her mind for her to notice they were even there. If Allura had never taken the entity none of Honerva’s plans would have ever been found out. Yes, she did steal all the energy from the Atlas’ crystal, but she did that primarily to combat the Atlas and disable it. She didn’t need to get it from there, the energy her Komars were able to provide was all she needed.

So what caused those visions?

Lotor did.

Once he was free of the rift he was able to connect with Allura somehow and reach out to her. That was really him. Where he is now, trapped under Haggar’s control, he has no means to combat the witch. But Allura does. Everything he says to her? Is true.

The next episode, s8e9 “Knights of Light: Part 1″ begins with Allura awaking, Coran and Lance by her bedside. She’s been asleep for two quintants (days). She has apparently come up with a plan to infiltrate Honerva’s mind, but from whence she gets this plan is never explained. That’s because we’re missing an entire episode between these two. This is where Lotor’s redemption happens, where he and Allura finally reunite. God knows what else was in that episode, what else was happening while the paladins were waiting for Allura to wake. Lotor bids Allura to follow him, to finally allow him to tell his side of the story, and for some reason we weren’t allowed to hear it.

But from what we did get to see? It all but confirms @crystal-rebellion‘s Colony Theory. Albeit, the white mechs were built by Honerva, but Lotor was attempting to keep the colony safe in the only way he knew how. The Alteans who died did so willingly; to preserve the lives of all the others.

There’s a repeated narrative that the only person who encourages Allura to take action, to strive and push forward, is Lotor. Sometimes others accept it, but they never encourage her. Everyone else seems to consider her too fragile, or not capable of making her own decisions. They want to protect her and coddle her, don’t believe she should be taking any risks. They are supportive emotionally, but want to limit her physically. They care about her, but don’t truly trust her judgement or want her to be making her own choices.

With Lotor though, it’s different. He truly sees her as an equal, respects her judgement in her areas of expertise. This plot line revolving around the entity is a prime example. Lotor provides Allura with the information, that she has everything she needs to take down Honerva right in front of her; she just needs to utilize it. But from the moment Allura wakes the people closest to her doubt her decisions and choices.

And yes, those choices lead to painful consequences, but in the end they are proven to be the right ones, to have been necessary. Allura took a calculated risk, and it pays off - if she hadn’t they’d have never caught Honerva in time to stop her from destroying everything. They wouldn’t even have discovered her plan in the first place.

If Allura hadn’t made the choice to listen to and trust Lotor, by her own judgement, reality itself would have ceased to exist.

Both Coran and Alfor are given specific scenes this season where they judge and approve of Lance in his pursuit of Allura. But key, neither of them ever ask - or even mention - Allura’s feelings on the matter. The s8 we got, rather disgustingly, portrays this as the right thing. I believe the original s8 was meant to subvert this. Because Lance is everyone else’s choice for Allura, but when Allura was allowed to make her own choice? She chose Lotor.

Allura once again ends s8e10 ‘Knights of Light: Part 2′ unconscious. I firmly believe we are missing more moments - if not an entire episode - with Lotor here, in s8e11 ‘Uncharted Regions’ - probably explaining somewhere along the way how exactly he is able to contact her in this manner.

Which, uh... as to my personal theory on how that is, well... what did Lotor and Allura do together that might have crafted a unique spiritual bond between them?

What did you two experience in the quintessence field Lotor?

But, those were happier times...

I also think this is the episode, this missing one, that that particular image properly belongs to. We now see it in the previous episode, as one of Honerva’s memories. But the reason we see it is that the paladins apparently see it too. The only problem is, they don’t react to it at all. They literally have a stronger reaction to finding out they can see Honerva’s memories in the first place. There’s no possible way that Allura saw the melted corpse of the man she loved and had no discernible reaction. We see her reactions to Lotor’s presence multiple times over the course of s7 and s8, and they’re always intensely emotional ones.

But speaking of that image, since we’re on the topic. That’s a very detailed image.

There’s details there you don’t immediately spot, because you’re too distracted by the horrific imagery of the corpse of a main character. A character who’s tragic, abusive childhood was the focus of almost an entire episode earlier in the season.

Details such as the motes of light floating up from his body.

Motes of light we’ve seen in exactly two instances before: from Zarkon and Honerva’s eyes immediately after they were restored back to life by the rift.

And from Zarkon’s body: vanishing after he died.

Yeah guys, I’m about to make that image much worse.

That’s not Lotor’s corpse, because he’s not dead.

He’s still in there, in that state, and he’s been in there for over three years.

Melded, physically and mentally, with Sincline by his time spent in the quintessence field.

What. The. Fuck.

As the season progresses it becomes much more difficult to tell what was supposed to be happening because of how badly it’s been chopped up, re-arranged, and edited.

But there is a very distinct difference between Sincline’s two appearances in action - that is, it’s only in the first one that it actually is in action.

The last time we see Sincline move of it’s own accord is e6 ‘Genesis’. From the moment he reappears Lotor is on the attack; he is stopped only two times, once of his own accord and once by Haggar’s mind control.

And that one time he stops himself? Is when he takes aim at Allura. She’s running across the ground, about to strike Honerva with her bayard, when he raises his right arm and takes aim. We see her in his sights, through his eyes. And the view zooms in on Allura’s face.

Lance sees what’s happening and dives in Red to stop him, but is blocked by one of the white mechs.

Yet. He lowers his arm and doesn’t take the shot.

Lotor never fires.

But immediately afterwards the white mech lingers too close and Sincline impales it with it’s tail. It’s not an aversion to killing that stayed his hand.

It’s that it was Allura.

This scene unambiguously shows that Lotor is both alive inside that mech and somewhat aware of himself. He’s become a robeast.

Yet after that episode the mech never moves again. It hangs lifeless in space during the battle at the pyramid; the white mechs having to do the fighting. The lights on it’s chest have gone out, only relighting when it is charged with quintessence from the Komar. For all intents and purposes, Sincline is empty.

Oh, and speaking of Sincline, up until s8e9 it’s only ever referred to as “Lotor’s mech,” but suddenly, in e11 ‘Uncharted Regions’ they’ve learned its name and Allura calls it “Lotor’s Sincline”.

I think that at some point between ‘Knights of Light’ and the second half of e11 ‘Uncharted Regions’ Lotor was to have been rescued. 'Uncharted Regions’ is one of the worst episodes this season for flow: it’s extremely choppy and hard to follow - flicking back and forth between scenes without anything really happening in them.

But the most telling thing?

‘Uncharted Regions’ begins with Honerva in her haloed mech searching Alternate realities for her ‘perfect’ one. We see several clips of her doing this, the mech floating in front of the pyramid, alone, with the spinning disk of its wings as a viewport.

Suddenly, almost exactly halfway through the episode, we get an image of Honerva kneeling inside the pyramid, in her Altean commander uniform, one uniformed Altean to either side. She says “The princess has awakened,” and then the scene changes.

When next we see Honerva she’s floating above the pyramid, the silent and immobile Sincline by her side.

The entire time this is happening there is combat going on around the pyramid, first with the coalition fighters and then with the Atlas itself. This sequence appears in episode as though it all happens successively in a very short period of time. But it doesn’t make sense like that. Why should Honerva stop what she’s doing, and exit her mech just to check if Allura is awake?

In this scenario why does Honerva even care if Allura is awake? By this point she’s apparently found her perfect reality and is prepared to move on to it? She doesn’t need Allura for anything, none of her plans require Allura. Why should she even bother to announce that Allura is awake, as though this is something she’s been waiting for?

This entire episode, including the fight scenes, has been chopped into little pieces and rearranged. Other scenes have had edits to their animation, or were re-done entirely. What we have in ‘Uncharted Regions’ is a frankenstein’s monster of an episode constructed of the tiny remnants of of at least two, possibly three, original episodes.

If you watch this episode carefully you’ll notice that there’s a clip out of order. The lights on Sincline’s chest are dark until it’s charged with the quintessence from the Alteans on the Atlas. But. The close up shot of Sincline the paladins see immediately upon exiting the wormhole in front of the pyramid has the lights lit up. This clip clearly is part of the sequence we see later in the episode just before the mechs combine. So when the crew on the bridge of the Atlas is shown reacting in horror, whatever they’re actually reacting to has been cut out.

These original missing episodes would have contained what I’m fairly certain was our big Alchemist vs Alchemist reprisal fight between Honerva and Allura; something we’ve been waiting for since season 2′s finale.

Why was such an anticipated fight removed?

I think it’s because the fight was over Lotor, and ultimately Allura would have rescued him.

Every time Allura uses the powers she obtained in Oriande it’s mentioned where she got them, and often that she has them because of Lotor.

She’s shown again and again restoring life and health.

What happened, what we’re missing, is her using the abilities she has thanks to Lotor, to save him.

Allura is supposed to storm that pyramid, infiltrate it, and rescue Lotor from the evil witch holding him captive. She’s supposed to find him in that horrible state we saw him in, and she’s going to heal him. She’s going to fight for him, to protect him, when no one else in his life ever has.

There’s also a clear switch. When Sincline is active and alight Honerva several times refers to it as ‘my son’ but afterwards, she stops and uses Sincline as a tool for her to reach an Alternate Reality and obtain a ‘new’ version of Lotor. With the exception of one shot, where, since we can’t actually see her speaking it seems that the audio and animation are sourced from different original scenes, Honerva ceases treating Sincline as Lotor after the lights go out.

The line that causes Honerva to snap s8e12 ‘The Zenith’ is when the little alt Lotor says “My mother is dead”. It’s framed like a deliberate callback, like it should be echoing something. But it’s a line we’ve never heard. I’d hazard that this final rejection, this line was spoken by *our* Lotor as Allura is rescuing him.

Lotor was not dead in there, he was alive, and he was saved.

There is a really good theory going around, my friend @tsunemori told me about it. I don't know who first came up with it, but I fully support it, because I noticed the scene in question was really off too.

But the theory is that that hospital bed scene? Was originally Lotor in the bed after they rescued him, and Allura was in Lance's place. Which makes total sense, because after that scene, when Lance takes Allura to the bridge? His height is all wrong, and he is hanging onto her for support instead of the other way around: it should be Lotor there.

Do I have any concrete proof of this one? No. But there is something off about that scene. It just doesn’t feel right.

So yeah, if I ask myself, “Is this a scene that might have been re-animated, the characters traced over and re-drawn as different ones?” I can absolutely see that. When looking for places where actual edits to the animation have been made you have to factor in several things: the complexity of the animation - how many characters, how many settings, how much movement, who is the focus/moving/talking.

This is both a pivotal scene, and an incredibly easy one to alter, comparatively. Two characters, one laying still in a bed and only getting a single one-syllable line - the other character’s name, which might have been taken from anywhere. Lance has a long string of dialogue, but he’s sitting beside the bed the entire time, and he moves very little.

I strongly believe this scene was either altered significantly or created whole-cloth for this edited version of s8.

Things that are much harder to alter, because they’d be much more expensive, are the fight scenes. It’s where I started looking once I suspected what had happened with season 8, and it’s where I started finding things.

S8e12 ‘The Zenith’ is one of the best episodes in terms of flow, and I believe that’s because it suffers some of the least editing.

We are however missing at least two scenes: a farewell between Allura and Coran - presumably as Allura boards the Blue Lion - and an explanation as to how Voltron followed Honerva into her destination reality after the rift closed on them. I believe both of these scenes were edited out because Lotor was key in them; several scenes in the following episode s8e13 ‘The End is the Beginning’ lead me to believe that he spent the final battle in the Blue Lion with Allura.

Two scenes during the fight stand out to me: the first, a split screen where Keith is mysteriously given a double width section as compared to the others. It’s especially noticeable, because he’s not even centrally placed and he’s scaled to a different size than his fellow paladins. In the entirety of the series we have never before seen a split screen cut among an even number of characters where one of them is given odd prominence like this. The screen is arranged so the characters appear in a color gradient, Keith is red-black and immediately to his left is Allura who is blue. If there was a missing section here, the color space would correspond to indigo/purple - and those are Lotor’s colors.

The second is a moment when Allura is speaking facing forwards and very clearly looks to the side and makes eye contact with someone. Now, VLD does have moments when the paladins will react in their own lions as though they can see each other, but this isn’t like that. It’s the way her eyes move, and look, she’s talking to someone who’s point of view we’re seeing her from. And that person is Lotor.

There’s also a peculiar moment in this episode where the same split screen is used twice; another thing which has never before happened in the series. It appears first about a quarter of the way through the episode as the paladins enter the stage for the final showdown and then again as they push Honerva into the glowing whiteness at its center. I believe that the second one of these is its proper place, and that the one that originally went in the first instance had Lotor included in it.

Finally, and this is going to take several images, so be warned. When the paladins appear before Honerva in the heart of it all, fading into view, they’re spaced very strangely.

There’s six of them, so you’d expect they’d be spaced something like this:

But they’re actually spaced like this:

(yes, I know Honerva would be blocking someone there. She moves. I just picked this cap so you could see all the shadows; there’s no point showing you the empty space)

It rather looks like there’s someone missing.

The last half of the final episode is so heavily manipulated that it’s difficult to say what actually happened. But we have two very strong clues from which we can reconstruct it.

Remember the leaks?

Now that we know the leaks were real, it begs the question, why was this scene one of them. Unlike the others, which were all from the epilogue, this scene is from roughly halfway through the episode.

Well, I believe we have the answer now: whoever leaked them chose those because they were the scenes they had on hand. These were the scenes that were not originally part of VLD s8, and were added only in the last minute edit.

This one in particular is another where I think it’s taken an actual scene and traced over it to make it into something else. Lance is far too tall here, and doesn’t look like himself hardly at all.

It’s also very clear from the framing of the shot where Allura is going down the line of paladins and hugging them that Lance should be getting a send off in sequence to the others, not apart like this.

No, I think Lance was animated over Lotor here, and the audio was spliced in parts from Lance’s actual goodbye scene and Allura’s “I will always love you” comes from somewhere else. That portion of the line is said in a distinctly different tone of voice than Lance’s name beforehand. There’s different emotions to it than the rest of their conversation, and I’d guarantee we’re hearing it out of it’s original context.

I don’t know what else changes in the ending, but I’m very certain that it was not supposed to be read as Allura dying.

The reason we now read it that way is that Allura and Honerva are seen greeting the spirits of people we know that are dead. I’m fairly certain this scene is either new, or it was only Honerva going to meet them, and of course, that Lotor wasn’t among them.

And I think it was Allura and Lotor who stayed behind to do the work of restoring all realities. My proof of this is one of the very best and strongest among my evidence: the very last closing shot of Voltron: Legendary Defender, after the credits.

The lions of Voltron take off to rejoin their new Cosmic Entities; Allura and Lotor. Whoever was responsible for editing Lotor out of this picture only actually slightly blurred him.

Thanks to @articianne for the outline!

If you play around with the image contrast and brightness it’s even more obvious that the both of them are there, back to back.

It only looks like Allura dies because the spirits but without them there? It looks like they ascended to a higher plane of existence or something.

They haven’t died at all. They’ve become, of all things, like Bob, the gameshow host from s7e4 ‘The Feud’. An ‘all-powerful, all-knowing interdimensional being’.

And y’know? Bob was perfectly able to interact with the paladins no problem.

I don’t understand why these changes were made. To me? This looks like a perfectly happy ending.

What else was cut I don’t know. But I found all this evidence by looking for the things that weren’t there, that a competently structured plot would lead me to expect would be. Chasing ghosts, as it were.

A short list of additional things I strongly suspect were cut?

Several scenes between Keith and Shiro.

A pivotal scene between Allura and Coran.

A follow up event with Pidge referencing her sacrificing her videogame to get Allura a dress.

A scene between Lance and Pidge, possibly referencing said videogame.

A resolution to Lance and Pidge competing to get Allura the best present.

A conclusion to Axca’s sub plot.

A Hunk and Shay scene, to explain how and why the Balmeras all show up in s8e12 ‘The Zenith’.

An additional scene with the blade for the same reasons.

Actually, y’know what? I’m not just going to leave this, because I have a strong suspicion what one of the other cut subplots was about.

You see, the other half of ‘Clear Day’ isn’t entirely filler - it’s specifically a callback to the season 2 episode ‘Space Mall’, and it’s not the only one in this season. The little shopping trip from s8e1 ‘Launch Date’ is also one. Specifically they’re part of a plot for Pidge about her feelings for Lance.

In ‘Space Mall’ Pidge and Lance spend their time scrounging up change to buy a videogame console. The game that they purchase is part of a series that Pidge later trades the only copy of the latest version of to get Allura a dress. During ‘Clear Day’ Pidge and Lance both spend their time trying to get the best present for Allura (hint hint, Pidge is the one who actually got the ‘”something sparkly”).

Now, as I’ve already covered, there’s missing content between ‘Clear Day’ and the next episode. Part of that content should have been what the other paladins were doing while Allura was unconscious. And in series, we never actually see Allura receive either of those presents that were bought for her. So where did they go?

I think Pidge and Lance spent the time waiting for Allura to wake up together, and they got to talking about how Lance has once again failed to acquire the sparkly thing Allura would like. Perhaps Pidge trades her mining helmet for Lance’s signed Blue Lion, and then it comes up how both times Lance went to get a present for Allura he ended up getting one for Pidge.

And that first time was the video game wasn’t it? A perfect place for Lance to find out what happened with the video game in s8e1.

So why did Pidge trade that game? To make Allura happy, yes, but also to make Lance happy. Because Lance likes Allura and Pidge wants them to have a good time, because Pidge likes Lance. Like, check e1 when Allura tells her she's going on a date with Lance, Pidge's reaction... isn't really a happy one.

I think this should have been the turning point for Lance, where he learns the difference between infatuation and sincere affection. I think very soon after this his relationship with Allura would end, and he would naturally progress into a different sort of relationship with Pidge.

As much as I love s8e7 ‘Day Forty-Seven’ I don’t think it was originally part of season 8. I also get the feeling that s7e2 ‘Shadows’ may be composed of scenes we were supposed to have gotten throughout the later half of season seven - though I expect that this change was made in a much earlier spate of edits, likely when s7 was re-done. It’s been confirmed that this happened, and that s7e4 ‘The Feud’ was made to ease the pressure on the exhausted animators who’d been working overtime to get the other episodes done in time. It’s never been confirmed what exactly was changed about season 7 or why, but I highly suspect it was to include more content with the MFE fighters, who the higher ups at Dreamworks might have been hoping to spin off into a sequel.

I suspect that the episodes were shifted forwards, because the first half of the season has no 'event' episode. s8e6 ‘Genesis’ should have been that, and what we're missing is the mid-season event. Which was where they would have saved Lotor. They excised an entire climactic fight between Allura and Honerva, reprising their battle from season 2. The alchemist vs alchemist fight that was repeatedly alluded to being inevitable, yet we never got.

It was animated and voiced to be Lotura and Lotor's vindication.

But someone wanted that changed.

We know when and why ‘The Feud’ was created, and because we were teased in several interviews to pay attention to it so that we might spot some foreshadowing, we can definitively say that the mucking around that was done to season 8 happened at a much later date.

In fact, the animation portion was likely completed all the way back in June. These are two bumper images that were used to advertise Season 6, which released on June 15th.

We haven’t yet seen this image of Lotor appear in the show (for what it matters, the full color one is the correct way around; Lotor’s hair always curls up over his right shoulder, the left can go either way), we have scoured every frame of him to find it, but it’s just not there (yes I know it looks like it should be from s5e4 ‘Kral Zera’, but trust me it’s not). Every other image that’s ever been used in these promotional bumpers has been from somewhere in the show, but this one is so far absent. Therefore it’s from a piece of animation yet to appear, and one which was made by the time these images showed up in June.

Now that we know what the truth is, I am sure we will get the full story eventually. It's only a matter of time before it filters out.

But right now is the key time if we want to convince Dreamworks to release the original season 8. Tweet at them, email them, snail mail if you have the time! Sign that petition!

The fandom response now will determine if we find out what really happened sooner rather than later - and later could mean years.

We are the only people who can make this happen. The cast and crew are all bound by NDAs, and publicly reacting negatively towards a show you worked on is practically career suicide.

It has historically been fans who’ve made a difference when companies interfere with their favorite shows. Fans have been able to effect change in the past, and they will again in the future; lets make sure this is one of those times. We need to fight to get the VLD we should have gotten in the first place.

Just remember to apply your energies in the right places. JDS and LM aren’t perfect people (no one is!), but this isn’t their doing. This is someone above them responsible for the mess that was s8. Dreamworks Animation is the culprit. There is a very real chance that the original season 8 is completely finished and able to be released, and we just might get it if we’re persistent enough.

Be polite, be reasonable, but be firm. Take this proof and use it. Show them that we know they changed things and that they can give us the original if they so choose.

The messages they inadvertently pushed with this slap-dash edit are vile and toxic, and people far more knowledgeable than I in those areas are speaking out about them. This needs to be fixed.

They need to say something. They need to tell us why they changed it. They need to give us the original Season 8.

Click here for Part 2: Seek Truth in Darkness

I, and any of you who enjoyed this meta, owe @nomadicism a huge thank you. She reminded me of that strange "Follow me!" scene, which prompted me to crack open 'Clear Day' for another watch... and I realized that Allura's dreams weren't nonsensical at all.

As always, thank you to my many friends in the Lotura Discord. You give me the strength and encouragement to keep going. I couldn’t have done this without you.

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diminuel · 4 years

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Time to rewatch the SPN episode. My theory in advance: the episode is enjoyable if you don’t think too much about it, but it might fall apart as soon as you take a second look. So I’m expecting that now, I’ve already got some points in my head that puzzle me. If you’re willing to read criticism then this might be the post for you!

It’s very long and unedited as so often (sorry for typos and nonsense sentences) so I have to hide it all under a cut!

The Then Segment:

What exactly was this supposed to be? It was immediately clear that they showed the pizza men scene of Meg to clue us in that she’d be back in a way and to provide framework for the things we would hear her say (for the general audience I assume because we all know everyone’s catch phrases by heart). Lucky conincidence for a clever then segment editor was that Ruby’s first line was also about pizza, so why not show that too since she would be making a comeback too. But... what’s with Dean and the pizza eating. Like... I kinda like it because it’s like a fanvid and little bit of silly story telling totally unrelated to canon and the episode we’re going to see. But... it’s totally unrelated to the episode we’re going to see! They did a gag in the then segment! *lol* I’m simply a bit puzzled about it. Also of course we can’t just ignore the story telling they gave us either? We see Cas kiss Meg, Cas explains he learnt if from the pizza man, next we see Ruby asking Dean where the pizza is framing him as the pizza man. And then Dean’s stuffing his face with pizza until he proclaims that he’s done, probably as a stand in for the editior who now also said “okay, I’m done with this joke, let’s get on with the plot relevant stuff!” Just, what are we supposed to do with the Cas learnt kissing from the pizza man, the pizza man is Dean implied joke? Hmmmmmmm. Mr or Mrs editor, care to explain?

Introduction of AU Sam and Dean:

Heck. *lol* Okay, I’m a member of the AU Winchesters fanclub I’m not going to try to hide that. I wonder how they managed to open a rift? What kind of spell did it require? How did they have the ingredients? Why did they take the fiat??? We know the spell for the rift requires archangel Grace or a nephilim to power it. Where did they get that? Does that exist in their world? Does their world have slightly different ingredient requirements? Is it possible now because the mere existence of Jack in the original earth has made it possible, has shifted the worlds all a bit closer now? Nah, I think that’s thinking too far for a BL episode. ;P

New part of Billie’s quest unlocked for Jack!

What point is there in Billie asking Jack if he’s ready for the next quest if he doesn’t know what he’s supposed to be ready for? Jack is completely clueless and he has no moral compass. He just does whatever without knowing possible consequences which is a bit difficult for me to find compelling. There’s no stakes in it, no moral dilemma, no emotion. He just does whatever, not thinking, not worrying about what it takes or what the consequences are. (I recently watched something with a hero just like that. What was it? Hhhh, I don’t watch a lot of stuff but I still don’t remember at all. I went to ask witchy sis and she knew the answer: it was Sora from Kingdom Hearts!!! Right! Interesting.)

Dean’s plan for Amara

I don’t think his thought process is wrong, it just feel slightly off for me that involving Amara is not an option but wiping her off the board is? Sure, she used to be a villain but I kind of felt like her send of was a sort of positive thing? But then again, he was already prepared to kill her once, so maybe that won’t have changed just because she had a change of heart and also gave him back his mom... Maybe I’m just forgetful and trying to reach Amara for help has been addressed before. Though I generally wonder if that with the balance was true anyway.

Sergei has the information

It’s so weird that they have this shady informant who has all the answers to all the questions... Just what is going on between Sergei and Cas that they continue to exchange phone calls...? Is Sergei just the cover up and easy fix for “we need to force a plot point and can’t develop it”

Dean and Cas’ exchange was absolutely adorable I love it. More of it please.

Anael and the nonsensical timeline

I can’t stand her.

While I was watching this I was so confused about the casual way of talking about Ruby (”and old friend of yours has it” not had it) and Sam and Dean not reacting to that at all that I assumed that AU!Sam and Dean coming and going like that had somewhat gave our world a bit of a nudge and that we were suddenly in a slightly alternative timeline. Because that somehow made more sense to me than what I was seeing on screen.

We also know that Anael was NOT on earth until the angels fell in S8, we even get her to explain how she came to possess her vessel... So this already makes no sense to begin with. On top of that I think this whole “has been making profitable deals with demons for years” does her character absolutely no service. Back then, somewhere between the end of S3 and the end of S4, heaven was still open, no angels were supposed to be on earth, she still had her wings, she still had all her powers, why the heck would she even need money? She could just get whatever she wanted with her mojo. This is ridiculous. She’s just a dick.

I will disregard anything that’s being shown in this flash back because this is Anael’s story for the Winchesters and we know later on that it’s a lie.

Story telling cues for beginners: something wrong with a Winchester, show it by noticeably altering his eating habits

I mean that this is not always a story telling device done sloppily, I can think of a couple of instances where it was done brilliantly and with nuance. But not this. *lol* Jack seems to be all about ingesting things; he has no powers, feed him hearts, he has no handle on his emotions, let him overeat, he has no soul, let him eat the occultum.

I think it’s interesting to have Jack talk about how things have changed with the Winchesters. I have to say that I don’t really see that all that much because they have mostly acted like nothing happened, Dean hasn’t even been angry or avoided Jack. Sam’s unsure around him, mostly because Jack’s not particularly forthcoming with information. It would have been nice to see how things have changed between Jack and Dean... Anyway, since Jack has no emotions, why is it important for him to know if Dean will ever forgive him?

I love Cas’ analysis of Dean’s emotions and the way he processes them. I still wonder if everything is good now between Dean and Cas. I thought this was still in progress based on Dabb’s comments (I have no source right now, just a vague recollection about the prayer scene not being the end of it).

Trapped between dimensions

This doesn’t make a lot of sense to me? They were through the portal, why would they have been trapped in a world between dimensions? Also, what is that space between?

The plan to just go to hell to grab something is so weird to me. Winchester stupid I guess. Why don’t they try to call Rowena first? There are ways to phone down to hell involving a bowl, some blood and a spell... Did they never learn how to do that? They have spells for all kinds of nonsense but not for a phone call down there?

Also, it feels a bit off to me that the first thing that comes to Cas’ mind regarding Ruby was that she and Sam were sexually intimate? I mean yes, of course, but the thing that Cas always mentioned to Dean was the demon blood drinking, that would have been a much more appropriate (and in character) thing to mention in my opinion. But I guess that’s the BL charm. *sarcasm*

Winchester misadventures in Hell part 1

Phhhhhhh. Okay. I know the Winchesters are under time pressure, but I don’t know why they continue to mess up the division of tasks. Why do the two humans go to hell and not Cas? (I remember how little issue Dean had to send Cas to hell because “he’s been before” or something other that basically amounted to “I don’t care if you die down there”. Oh man, now I’m angry again. What a bastard. Deep breath, let it go.)

I think Sam and Dean are a bit careless/ overconfident. What happened with that humility they should have gotten when they were “normal” some episodes ago? Just because Rowena’s queen of hell, they clearly aren’t just totally safe when they waltz down into hell and not expect some resistance?

Cas’ Winchester stupid but successful plan

I do like that Cas continues to question what he’s been told. But the whole “kill me mostly and I will go to the Empty for a chat” seems like BL nonsense. That’s not how death works in SPN? Jack was smiting Cas but somehow instead of killing him he just made the Grace flow out out. No, not even his Grace, his lifeforce! Which looks exactly like his Grace what the heck.I can’t even think about it because this doesn’t make any sense and it’s very annoying.

Besides, what happened with Jack not being allowed to use his powers under any circumstaces???????????!? I hate this. Did nobody read through this script with a red pen? Pisses me off.

Cas, I love you, but I’m questionning your parenting style right about now. *lol*

Also, Dean and Cas have got to stop trying to get answers by temporarily killing themselves. It’s not a sustainable tactic.

Now Cas’ life force is in that flask? Does this life force has sentience...? What is it? No, stop, BL don’t make sense, you’ll only break your head trying to make sense of it.

Winchester misadventures in hell part 2

Why does everyone have angel blades? Annoying. Also, Anael, sorry, JO. Jo somehow is able to communicate with demons that are stuck in hell? And how would she even get them out? Huh? Also, this makes her look even more like a bastard. Why kill the Winchesters?

Also, what the hell was Jo’s “free advice” supposed to be? “Don’t make any friends, they always ask too much of you?” Huh? What? Who is the friend who asked too much of Jo? Also, she could have healed the dude before she left, wouldn’t have taken her any time. Asshole.

Cas in the Empty

Cas criticized Dean and Sam’s plan to go to hell to find something because hell is too big and it might take them a long time to find. But he thinks he’ll be able to find Ruby in the EMPTY in one hour?

Can’t say I hated seeing the Empty take on Meg’s form. I just love the Empty, though I find it the most charming if it’s Cas shaped ;D (Duma was the creepiest though)

Why did Ruby get a wardrobe change in the Empty?

I consider this flashback to be true, BUT what the hell is Jo talking about when she says Michael and Lucifer are circling each other? They’re not? Lucifer is still in the Cage, Michael’s still chilling up in Heaven.

If Jo wanted to hide out in the Occultum and it was in her possession, then why did she ask Ruby to hide it somewhere? Why didn’t Jo just go in there to hide out??? Why didn’t she keep it safe herself? Why did she even go to Ruby in the first place? She had it in her possession, no need to trust a demon? I don’t get it.

I love the additional lore we get about the Empty. It seems to be the opposite of heaven; angels and demons dreaming about their regrets. Love that.

So Ruby wants out, I hope Ruby gets out. Other than Jo I do love her.

But why does she have to tell Cas where the Occultum is in such a secretive way? They’re in the Empty, who’s gonna hear them anyway...? Weirdos.

We learn that the deal between the Empty and Cas is still going, that the Empty is on Death’s side and that what the Empty wants out of this is to go back to sleep...? I have to process that later because all I can think of right now is that either that the Empty dies (how...?) or that everything dies (but then it’s still awake?) or Billie takes all the contents of the Empty and lets it spill out into creation...? Apart from Cas I guess? Because the Empty wants Cas and it wants to sleep? But what joy would the Empty get out of Cas being there if it’s asleep anyway? *pulls a face*

Also, Cas doesn’t seem to be in Billie’s big plan for Chuck either. He’s suspiciously absent everywhere. But that’s the thing with written down destinies that somehow all big players believe in, Cas doesn’t quite care and manages to get into the story anyway... At least that’s what I continue to hope in because this constant dismissal of Cas pisses me off.

Anyway, everybody’s back topside and alive. Dean and Cas have futher lovely exchanges.

“Am I still an idiot?” “.... Well yeah!” Dean’s sleeping on the couch tonight.

AU Sam and Dean!

It’s a shame that they just glossed over AU!Sam and Dean meeting our original team. :C

I think the world they come from sounds pretty interesting. But these guys don’t really look like active duty hunters...? Do they actually get their hands dirty? ?? Do they hunt more like the British MOL hunt?

This is outdated, BL, Dean’s tastes in porn have changed. He likes hentai now. (Well, he’s liked it since S7 I guess).

Retrieving the Occultum

And now here we have another example of less than ideal divisions of tasks. There are two humans in the church and two powerful supernatural creatures, so who gets to barricade their door against hellhounds? Of course, Sam, the human man with human protagonist strength! :D Makes perfect sense.

Convenient moonlight! Is this The Hobbit? :D

Sam’s there, struggling with the door but Dean just shoots him a look while Cas and Jack continue to stand around *lol*

Good to know me and Jack share the instant realization that the solution to the problem is: eat the thing.

“No!! Spit it out!!” I love it it. Poor Dean, parenting a Nephilim is hard.

Who’s that girl in Eden? Who’s that snake? Why is this the safest place in the world?

That was a pretty easy way to get a soul... Is that even Jack’s soul? Is that actually what Eden does or does it serve another purpose?

Anyway, back to the Bunker!

I like that two versions of Sam and Dean exist in the original world now :D I don’t know why Dean sent them off to Brazil, instead of keeping them around as backup. They are hunters after all... I also don’t know why he’s kinda grouchy around them? (Though I guess that’s just how Dean is.) I just hope we’ll see them again...

Also, this car business is weird. When were they looking around? When the others were gone? Because the Impala wasn’t around when Sam and Dean were gone because they took it to drive to the church. Also, there are a lot of classic cars in there, some fancier than the Impala, right? So which car did they mean? Confusing.

I think now that Jack’s soul is back, Dean might actually have to address what has happened. Before, there was no point... I’m interested to know what’ll happen next!

And that’s it! A lot of things which were off or annoying and I don’t get how this got through whatever approving instances there are. I wonder that every single time, almost every BL episode. It’s frustrating and we’ve never had an answer. I wish we had panels with writers I would really like to know what some of the messes were, if they just forgot things that fans remember perfectly well? If they just say “screw it, who cares” or what... :/

But I was still entertained, I love Dean and Cas’ interactions, I loved the AU!Winchesters, I loved seeing Ruby again and I can’t wait to know what happens next even though we have to wait!

#Supernatural #spoilers #15x13 spoilers

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esther-dot · 2 years

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Remember when some fans claim that Sansa was given Barbery Dustin story in show because of her icy nature and politically shrewd. They also pointed out that maybe Barbery will be leading North and fight against Boltons. So Sansa being Stark heir leading North against Boltons who wronged her family and ruling WF effectively is impossible. I want TWOW to put and Sansa to succeed just to see antis how will they accuse her of stealing other character story.

Hey! I’m a firm believer in QitN Barbrey, y’all are just haters. 😂

I love both versions of Sansa, and comparing show Sansa to a woman who plans to give Ned’s bones to her dogs is offensive to me as show Sansa dearly loved her father. Also, show Sansa wasn’t bitter even when she believed Jon betrayed her. She was heartbroken, but remained loyal to the family, to him, and thought of him as her king until the end. Barb’s hatred for Ned burns bright years later for what I would argue is a much smaller grievance. These are not remotely similar characters.

However, as someone who thinks D&D were using info from Martin, I understand the impulse to draw connections between book stuff and show stuff and think that it can be helpful in guessing where things are going. But, I did laugh that the people who latched onto this idea were the very same people who insist the show has nothing to do with the books, that all the plot points are wrong/that Sansa isn’t going North, so it makes no sense to then say, “it will be totally different because D&D read the books and gave Sansa the characterization of this minor character.”

As if D&D didn’t alter everyone’s characterization from the beginning.

And yet, I have to point out that in the books, Tyrion compares Sansa’s courtesy to the Wall, which is the tiniest bit icy, so I’m not sure why Sansa, once she is pushed into a political arena trying to guide people who don’t initially respect her, having a little coolness to her interactions was suddenly such a problem.

In s6-8 she had plenty of soft moments, she is the one who showed the most open affection to the other Starks, and even in s8 when everything was off kilter, she still had moments of raw emotion that broke through the bullshit, so it isn’t the case that she truly had an icy nature, either. She was wearing her armor save when she felt safe enough not to do so (her reunion with Bran, a few moments with Arya, with Theon, several scenes with Jon…), so I don’t think the basic idea is as far removed from the book as people pretend. Obviously D&D reinterpreted her, but I think it’s weird that fans act like later seasons Sansa was more ooc than earlier seasons Sansa. They interpreted her differently all along but all along, I still saw traces of my girl.

I suppose since Barb mentioned her dogs and hates Ramsay, we could say that having Ramsay eaten by his own dogs is something that she might oversee rather than Sansa (who will not be married to him or raped by him), so maybe the idea was that it would be ooc for book Sansa to watch someone get eaten alive. And I guess this would be similar to how they had Arya do some Lady Stoneheart-y things, so, maybe there was a swticheroo there?

That specific scene aside, there’s a line about how every battle for Winterfell has had a Stark present, and I don’t think Martin dropped that in there for it to be retaken by someone other than a Stark. I mean, Barb does hate Ramsay in addition to hating Ned, so I guess she can betray the Boltons and decide she wants to be QitN instead of letting them have all the fun (I’m not remembering anything specific pointing in that direction, just entertaining the notion), but I don’t see how that is a substitute for Starks reclaiming Winterfell or Starks ruling the North again. It could happen as a stepping stone, but it’s not interchangeable and wouldn’t impact the endgame of a Stark being in Winterfell. To pretend that Sansa’s role as a Stark in the North was a total show fabrication is odd.

I don’t have any specific ideas of how we’re gonna match up the timelines and have the necessary forces to retake Winterfell, but it’s interesting to me that as much as Barb has a problem with Ramsay, she dislikes Ned too, and combining that with the impending Stark succession crisis is a really fun thing to do because of what it could mean for her interactions with the Stark kids, lots of anger and resentment, as they potentially work together to defeat a common foe regardless. That’s a path too.

Whether Sansa is the key to reclaiming Winterfell by bringing the KotV (which I believe was the plan at one point), or she arrives later because of timeline issues, I’m confused why people would think that Stark kids popping up in the North won’t impact the politics more than these minor characters? Wont the supporting cast be how Martin fleshes out the rival claims, as the Starks won’t be at each other’s throats out of any power craze of their own? And we need those characters to make the revelation of Jon’s daddy to be a huge political issue, as the Starks aren’t gonna disown him, but we need someone to raise hell. It seems to me that the Starks and the power players in the North have distinct roles and that the interplay there will matter.

I’m not sure why even other Sansa fans are so adamantly apposed to her ending up in the North. That isn’t actually an anti position, that’s common even among her fans, but I truly thought her “If I am ever a queen, I'll make them love me.” line felt like a very direct compare and contrast moment between her and Cersei which we would get to see manifest when she came into a position of political power at some point, and seeing as she is the oldest living true born Stark, I think that position would be in the North as LoW or QitN. I don’t think that’s a stretch at all, especially now that we know Bran will be king elsewhere.

Anyway, Barbie is my queen forever and ever amen!

#ask dot

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twdmusicboxmystery · 3 years

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TWD 11x03: Hunted - Details

Okay, let's talk details. At the beginning, nearly everyone gets hurt and then gets separated.

***As always, spoilers abound below for episode 11x03: Hunted. Don’t read until you’ve watched!***

I noticed that in the opening credits, we now see the two rows of hanging bodies to represent the Reapers.

Maggie:

Elijah tries to help Maggie but is yanked backward and disappears. We don’t see him the rest of the episode. I really hope he’s okay. ☹

When Maggie is walking around alone, we see a car with an open door that's emphasized. It reminds me very much of this shot from 5x09.

@wdway also noticed some chevron symbols in the parking lot. (Chevron Theory)

She passes the dumpster before she actually gets into the mall building. That might be called back to Glenn. She also uses glass alcohol bottles as a warning system. I'm sure I don't have to explain the parallels there.

There's definitely a rat thing going on here, which is important because of 10x21, but I can tell you that we see (hear) it in episode 11x04 as well. I just noticed the subtitles tell us that there are rats squeaking quite a lot. After finding Negan and Alden, Negan pushes for Alden to be left behind. He doesn’t like being on the road. He says the plan is bad and unsafe.

Then they hear screaming and run toward Agatha. Duncan is hurt and clearly not going to make it. He says, "We were good. We were lucky." Both Beth lines. Maggie puts him down after promising to get Agatha home.

Now, that’s interesting to me. I said yesterday that we’re seeing a replay of Beth through many of these story lines, and I focused on Alden as a proxy. But I think Agatha is one, too. Just the fact that they talk about getting her “home,” makes her a proxy. Meanwhile, she doesn’t make it “home.” She’s bitten by a walker and left behind…in a mob of walkers. This is also where Negan drags Maggie away while she screams, “no!” Maybe indicative of her emotional response (not to mention her screaming in the parking lot of Grady) over losing Beth?

Jumping back a bit, before Agatha’s death, Maggie’s group travels through the woods. Negan and Maggie have an interesting exchange. Negan says of himself, "people change." Maggie says that no they don't.

So once again, it's called back to Beth dialogue, but Maggie is specifically harboring a belief that was the opposite of Beth's. That people don't and can't change. It's obvious that Maggie is on a very destructive path right now. She doesn’t really have faith in people, or faith that everything will work out okay. We can't be sure where this is going, but it's interesting. As I've said before, I'm sure this attitude of hers will probably end up causing drama down the road.

They happen upon a burnt walker that's tied to a tree with the sign that says Judas over his head. This super interesting. I know I have a lot of asks about this in my inbox. My first reaction is that we can tie it to the burnt walkers from 6x06, which was bursting with Beth symbolism. Since it’s obviously the CRM who was responsible for those burnt walkers, you have to wonder if there's a CRM tie here.

We might also be able to tie this to the Governor’s episodes in 4a, where he found several decapitated corpses wearing military attire that also had signs near them like ‘murderer’ and ‘rapist.’ If nothing else, this shows that someone in the area is actually burning people for betrayal and labeling them as Judas. Doesn't exactly bode well for our group. But we don't know whether this was the Reapers or somebody else.

***Update: I wrote most of this post before seeing episode 11x04. I still think we can tie this burnt walker thematically to 6x06 and the CRM, but in terms of what is literally happening in this season, let’s just say this burnt walker will make a lot more sense after watching 11x04. I don’t want to give spoilers beyond that.***

Just before Maggie's group reaches the chapel they end up leaving Alden at, they pass green car. I don't think it's a Gremlin, like the one we saw in 7x05, but it's the same shade of green.

And of course, we see the cross outside the church. Beth was wearing a cross bracelet in the hallway of Grady when she was shot. There are plenty of holes in the roof of the church (Hole in the Roof Theory.) At one point, Alden even says, "I'm dead weight." That was the name of 4x07, the Governor episode where they found the decapitated corpses.

At the chapel, we caught an interesting snippet of dialogue from Negan. He tells Maggie “the sun is going down” and that she’ll have to make a decision. We’ve always thought Beth would return with a dawn theme, which might mean literally that we’ll see her with a sunrise or something. So, it made me wonder if the “night” will be them fighting the conflict with the Reapers and then will return with the new “dawn.” Something like that. It might be literal or just thematic. We’ll just have to wait and see, though.

Maggie finally agrees to leave him behind, but she struggles with it mightily. They even have this really on the nose line where she says, "you better be here when I come back." And he answers, "you better come back." Think about how that would relate to Beth's arc.

Carol:

We see Carol and Kelly returning to Alexandria together. They have this whole thing where Magna thinks Carol is giving Kelly falls hope and wants her stop.

They also seem to be setting up something with Carol and Aaron. I'm not sure what it is. They're kind of at odds in this episode because he wants her to help with the walls and she wants to go track the horses. I thought it was interesting that Angela Kang, during the Inside Look bit, went out of her way to say that Carol and Aaron are not enemies. They're still good friends but they have different ideas about how to deal with the current crisis. I feel like they're setting up an arc with the two of them together.

When Carol was out looking for the horses, she finds Rosita. Rosita is scavenging MUSHROOMS. This part was super interesting because Carol tells her not to pick a certain type of mushroom unless she accidentally wants to make baby cocoa high for about a week. This is meant to be a joke, but it fits into the hallucination theory. I've noticed several mushroom mentions throughout the seasons. It’s an ongoing theme that I think ties into things not being as they seem, or a character to misunderstands or is deceived by something.

As I told my fellow theorists, I sat and thought about this for a minute. It's a little bit odd to me that they included Rosita’s response. When Carol says the mushrooms will make them high, Rosita answers, "yeah, but only for about a week, right?" It's meant to be a funny of course, and it is, but why put in a timeframe for the hallucination?

The only thing I can think of is that maybe it's a hint that the hallucinations or misconceptions people have been laboring under are about to fall away. That includes Daryl and Leah, but we can also extend it to Beth. If she lived, as we think she did, and TF think she died, then their belief in her death fits into the hallucination theory. Just thought that was interesting.

Rosita joins Carol in searching for the horses. At one point, she tells Carol about some dreams she's been having. (Kind of interesting to mention hallucinatory mushrooms and then talk about significant dreams, no?) Apparently, she's been dreaming about Abraham. She says he's trying to tell her something, something she supposed to do, something about Alexandria. But she can't actually hear what he's saying. (Hear no evil.) And just when she gets close enough to hear him in the dream, he gets shot in the head.

This is interesting on so many levels. First of all, dreams. We had the episode 6x12 of FTWD, titles, In Dreams. Abraham is a man Rosita once loved, and has lost. Most obviously, Abraham didn't die of a gunshot to the head. He died when Negan killed him. So, it feels like an excuse to mention someone being shot in the head. And of course Abraham was often a proxy to Beth. I’m definitely side eyeing this.

The other thing about this is that I've been noticing for a while that they have some big arc for Rosita coming up. They’ve done several sequences where she’s searching for weapons but is unable to find them for a time. She usually eventually finds them and uses them to somehow save the day or turn the tide of the conflict.

We saw this in S7, and the weapon she found was Dwight, who defected and helped them win the war. We saw it during the warehouse sequence in S8 where she and Michonne were trying to stop the singing truck from going to the Sanctuary, and Rosita ended up with the rocket launcher. It’s a pattern that’s been happening for a while. I don't know how this dream of Abraham ties into that, but I’m wondering if this arc they’ve foreshadowed for several seasons is about to start playing out.

I don’t have a whole lot more to say about Carol tracking the horses, as I went over the most important stuff yesterday. I'm assuming that in this episode, that Kelly is equating the dead horses with Connie, and that's what upsets her so much.

After we see the horse run away from them, Kelly says, “fourth time’s the charm,” which means that was the third time they’d attempted it. (Rule of Threes).

When they get back to Alexandria, Carol cuts one of the horse’s throats to slaughter it for food. Aaron comes to help her, and he looks at her very compassionately.

This is also where we get the shot from inside the church with the broken window. We see Kelly come out and hug Magna, but then still go with Carol. Just really interesting symbolism there about her not giving up hope of finding her sister. I can't help but wonder if Kelly will go with Carol to look for Connie and end up finding Beth. That would be super interesting.

It also reminded me of something that happened during S9. There was an episode where Kelly got lost in the woods and Daryl and Connie went to find her. They had this really weird before-the-opening-credits sequence where we saw what was clearly a Whisperer, rather than a normal walker, coming up behind Kelly and reaching out for her, as though she was about to get kidnapped or taken prisoner. But that didn’t actually happen.

When Daryl and Connie find her, she's on her own in the woods and just dehydrated. There's definitely hallucination quality to that sequence, but I’ve always suspected it was a foreshadow of something in the future. Anyway, this is just conjecture and I'm just rambling, but these are some of the thoughts I had while watching the episode.

The kids:

There couple of charming scenes of all the kids playing together. We see them play a card game—Slap Jack, I think—at the kitchen table. Many people have noticed that this kitchen table looks a lot like the one in Alone that we saw in the funeral home. And no, it’s not the same. It doesn’t have a diamond on it, but the material and pattern look similar. Which is kind of interesting.

Actually, to me, the design looks a little reminiscent of the All-Seeing Eye, which is often seen on paper currency. So, it could be part of that theme.

Most of these are just cute scenes and Angela Kang says that part of the reason for them is that they wanted to have Judith and Herschel interact a little bit. People have also pointed out to me that when Herschel asks if any of them have ever been on the road like he was with Maggie, Judith says no, “Not like that.” Actually, she has been, but she was just too little to remember it. But this may have been a subtle reminder of 5x12.

Herschel is clearly worried about his mom and the adults who keep leaving. Judith does her best to console him. Not sure what to make of these conversations in terms of what they foreshadow. Maybe nothing. But I did enjoy watching the scenes.

Father Gabriel:

The man Gabriel kills is named Nichols. (Got that from the subtitles.) We hear him reciting the Lord's prayer as Gabe approaches. I also noticed that his shoes are not on. They are on the ground on the other side of the tree from where he’s sitting. Which might be part of the Lost Shoe/Foot symbolism.

He has an arrow in his stomach (it looks like Daryl’s) and he’s bleeding from the neck. The neck wounds are interesting because Father Gabriel got one too. It's almost as if these two mirror one another.

I mentioned this yesterday, but Gabriel says, "God is not here anymore." Just wanted to mention it again because it will be important to remember for next week when we get into 11x04.

Okay, I think that's all I have in terms of details. Anything I missed?

#beth greene #beth greene lives #beth his alive #beth is coming #td theory #td theories #team delusional #team defiance #beth is almost here #bethyl

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shipping-receiving · 5 years

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JB Fav Fics

Ages ago, I reblogged @chickren‘s post (from 2013!) and I promised to give it a shot but got all tied up with my dissertation and my own fic. Now that my dissertation is done, I HAVE COMPLETED THIS. Bear in mind these answers might be a bit ‘dated’ as well (by a few months) because I’ve not been reading much fic on my end. Turns out when I’m writing my own, I can only hold one version of J/B in my head.

Anyway this list is LONG AND TOOK ME FOREVER and I also wrote comments because I can’t help myself. So everything is under the cut. I took out the Shuffled Challenge one (very 2013 lol) and I replaced it with a category called... favourite S8 fix-it. Can you believe it? After I made all this noise about not being able to read fix-its?

[J/B Fic Recs: Master Post if anyone needs it before we start things off]

Favourite fic set immediately after ADWD Second to fucking none: Honor Thy Regard by SigilBroken Nights Without Armor by bratanimus

Favourite fic set a long time after ADWD Oh. Salt Wife by Lady_in_Red. Breathtaking simplicity.

Favourite TV canon fic Pretty and Traveling Far by astolat A Man for All Seasons by dreadwulf

Favourite S8 fix-it Yes, I know. I can’t deal with fix-its. And yet. Ice by Gwen77 Ring Them Bells by kirazi Battle is the Great Redeemer by Lady_In_Red

Favourite modern AU Clean hands by you-know-who (... it’s Gwen77) + all the classics: Fever by Lady_In_Red On the Night’s Watch by Miss_M It’s Like Weather by ssstrychnine Beast and the Beast by SigilBroken And of course our recent fandom favourite: two halves of a soul by angel_deux

Favourite kiss (Don’t specify chapter) Okay this is kind of a random one but I remember re-reading Roommate Wanted by JustAGirl24 a couple months back, and when they finally kissed I wanted to freaking throw my phone across the room. It’s not even described in detail, it was just such a perfectly timed OMFG!!! THEY KISSED! moment.

Favourite smut Anything by Miss_M, good lord. My all-time favourite is Golden and True (modern AU, sequel to Ball and Chain), but for canon!verse it has to be Heart’s Desire and Spring Awakening. And obviously I have to say Flawed by francoeurs – smut exploring J/B’s Issues with a capital I? I’m THERE.

And for multi-chapter fic, Everyone Has Secrets by ellaria is fire. Oh and also, everyone’s favourite professor AU, Stacked by QuizzicalQuinnia.

Favourite UST On the Night’s Watch and Someone to Watch Over Me by Miss_M. I love that these two fics take place over such a short time (a few days) but they manage to feel like slow burns. That’s fucking skill right there.

Best written fic I hate this question. You want me to pick the best-written fic out of the FIVE THOUSAND J/B FICS ON AO3? Lmao I’m skipping.

Favourite fic with an unusual premise Multiverse central: All the Roads are Winding by ShirleyAnn66 In which Brienne can turn into a sea lion: This Is Your Wilderness by hardlyfatal GENDER SWAP: all knights are gallant and all maids are beautiful by janie_tangerine Jaime is a sculptor: Madonna of the Balcony by QuizzicalQuinnia Jaime does needlework: Hold This Threadbare Heart at Needlepoint by nire

Favourite action scene Words by astolat. The entire battle sequence.

Favourite dialogue Clean hands by Gwen77, Chapter 9. So cathartic, and SO MUCH HAPPENING. Not just J/B but Tyrion and Cersei on the phone too. I mean I just tried to re-read it to pick an excerpt (I can’t) and I already started crying lmao

Favourite characterization of Jaime A Man for All Seasons by dreadwulf. THE NUANCE. THE DETAIL.

Favourite characterization of Brienne Any fucking thing by Gwen77. Especially Clean hands, Diplomacy and Ice.

Favourite relationship development Where I follow, you’ll go by Lady_In_Red Beast and the Beast by SigilBroken, OBVIOUSLY It’s Like Weather by ssstrychnine Patience on a Monument by betts, even though they’re already friends, because betts makes me sit through Jaime/Sansa and Brienne/Tormund and yet I still re-read this.

Favourite use of non-typical character. Exclude these: Jaime, Brienne, Podrick, Hyle, Cersei, Sansa, Margaery, Tyrion, Daenerys, Selwyn, Tywin. Hmm this is a tough one. Maybe Loras the photographer in Living Fiction by Archetype_Electraheart

Favourite plot In This Light by SigilBroken for canon!verse endgame On the Night’s Watch by Miss_M and Everyone Has Secrets by ellaria for modern AU. I love J/B investigating stuff together.

Favourite title Nobody Knows / You Know and I Know by Miss_M “There’s a story,” Brienne says, “about a corrupt official who went to a sage and offered him to take part in a scheme, promising no one would ever know. ‘How can you say that?’ the sage replied. ‘I know, and you know, and the earth knows, and the sky knows.’”

Favourite WiP (finished or unfinished) With All Your Faults by seaspirit (close to the end!!!) The Descent by openmouthwideeye And this is finished but Tale As Old As Time by BrienneofThrace. She came back after like four years to finish it?! That alone is fandom magic.

Favourite long one-shot Pretty by astolat (wtf this is 30k?)

Favourite short one-shot OH MY GOD THE GLASSES FIC. Age Gap by ikkiM

Favourite drabble Mmmmm I don’t really read drabbles so I’ll skip this too.

Favourite beginning What is True, But Not Ideal by Vera: Jaime doesn’t appear for like four chapters and yet I was still on board.

Favourite ending IT’S FUCKING Clean hands by Gwen77 OKAY DON’T @ ME. Traveling Far by astolat – because she just Went There and gave J/B five kids The Sorrows That Women Cause by Mussimm (seventh and final part of Works and Days, in which they just... bang)

Favourite story twist more like the man you were meant to be by janie_tangerine. I mean, this isn’t really an internal twist, more like a twist on canon The Importance of Knocking by Miss_M, since it’s a story twist for Cersei lol.

Funniest story St George's Day by sansasparky The Best Legs You've Ever Seen by ikkiM

Favourite angst In the first version of this list I said I wouldn’t pick Gwen77 again for this one, and then I re-read Ice and cried my eyes out for like, the whole thing. Special mention for catherineflowers’ series We Need to Talk About…, because of how much she just commits entirely to some really dark stuff. It’s something I wouldn’t necessarily re-read, but just the audacity it took for her to write this is really impressive.

Favourite fluff The Higher Education of Brienne of Tarth and Drunken Shenanigans with Jaime and Brienne by BrienneofThrace. Anything by BrienneofThrace to be honest. She does the purest J/B. Also, Nothing That Is So, Is So by RoseHeart, and i get to be the other half of you + The 'Kiss Me' Series by sameboots.

Favourite Jaime line Yooooooo that part in Laying Siege by astolat when Jaime just launches into his wedding proposal: “I swear to you before these witnesses that I will protect Sansa Stark with my life, beside you. I will never take the field against her. I will take your name and your crest and your house as my own—”... I can feel myself being Brienne going WHAT THE FUCK WHAT THE FUCK WHAT THE FUCK

Favourite Brienne line Yeah yeah here I go picking Gwen77 again. The very last lines of all her fics always slay me, but this is the only line I can quote verbatim, from Diplomacy: “Trapped, he had said, worry in his voice. Ruined. She had never felt so free.”

Favourite general line or excerpt I love the way Gwen77 commits to the motif of walls in Ice. I freaked out about it here. And then after all that talk about Brienne building up her walls she just HITS US WITH THIS FINAL LINE:

“Jaime was hers, encircling, warm, solid as a wall. He would catch her if she fell.”

Favourite non-romantic fic The tale of Squire!Brienne series by LadyRhiyana

Favourite maiming adaptation in a modern AU Fever by Lady_In_Red, because I love how the whole story is built on Jaime learning how to ride again with a mangled hand

Favourite kidfic Not really a full-on kidfic, but You Know and I Know (sequel to Nobody Knows) for that Jaime & Tommen relationship, plus that conversation J/B have about having kids in future. Oh, and so brief, but Traveling Far by astolat.

Craziest scene that was in character and made sense (Don’t specify chapter) Let’s just go for the entirety of Stannis Baratheon, Fantasy Football League Commissioner by ikkiM AND THAT FUCKING J/B/C FIC THAT I READ BECAUSE I DIDN’T LOOK AT THE TAGS OKAY: Pride by astolat

Most underrated fic My Fall by TeamGwenee. Witches in 1600s colonial America AND in first person POV? IT WORKS THO. Such an interesting and original premise, and written in a very refreshing succinct style, and yet this multi-chapter fic has less than 200 kudos. Another one with less than 200 kudos: and you’ve whispered what I’m worth by angel_deux, a really lovely Mad Max: Fury Road AU.

Most desperate to see updated NO PRESSURE!!! for our world is cold and full of monsters by chancellor_valdez room service by ssstrychnine A Star Within the Mere by isavedlatin (sigh)

Favourite J/B as a secondary couple Some Kind of Family by crossingwinter

Most haunting Fool by astolat. I don’t know why. It’s a very beautiful story and it’s not even a bad ending for J/B necessarily, but the fact that it ends the way it does just really fucks me up. It’s the only fic in my bookmarks that I don’t think I can ever bear to re-read.

Favourite (friendship or hate) relationship between Jaime and another character One Of The Few Things by anniebibananie (Sansa) – I’m picking this just for the sheer I-can’t-believe-you-made-this-work-and-I-applaud-you factor

Favourite (friendship or hate) relationship between Brienne and another character What Is True, But Not Ideal by Vera (Tyrion)

#jaime x brienne fic recs #jb fav fics

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nightqueendany · 5 years

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Original Final Season 7 - Episode 4: Dragonglass

It’s Tuesday again...

ON DRAGONSTONE:

Jon/Dany visit the caves - now having been cleared out of the dragonglass, Jon wants to show Dany the COTF markings, their attraction for each other becomes more clear in this scene and Dany is more sure of Jon telling the truth about the Night King and Army of the Dead

Dany asks Missandei if any of the 19 languages she speaks use a symbol-system for their written language, Missandei replies yes, a few, so Dany then tasks her with copying down some of the symbols from the dragonglass cave, perhaps she can decipher some of the ruin symbols

Sometime while alone in the cave, Missandei and Grey Worm have sex, AKA Greyssandei cavesex

Team Stark/Targaryen discuss the dragonglass, that while the amount of it is much needed, they have no weapon smith skilled enough to work it

Dany agrees to have Yara and Theon ferry all they’ve mined to White Harbor/the North (This is Theon’s idea but Jon supports it - secretly, Theon is anxious to see Sansa again so this is his excuse)

- In exchange for sending the Greyjoys North with the dragonglass, Jon agrees to send the Northern forces (Northmen, Knights of the Vale, Riverlands) south to assist with the blockade of King’s Landing - no formal alliance has been made yet, but they want to show a united front against Cersei, the sooner they take out Cersei, the sooner everyone can face the threat of the White Walkers

Davos says he knows of a weapon smith who might be able to work the dragonglass, but he’ll need to go to King’s Landing, knows how to smuggle himself in

Tyrion opts to go with Davos to King’s Landing as representative of the Queen

As Yara and Theon are about to leave, Yara basically encourages Dany to “tap that” (Jon) while Davos and Tyrion are away in King’s Landing, Dany needs to secure the North formally, and seducing Jon into marriage is the most efficient way to do it but Dany isn’t so sure (as she’s secretly falling for him anyway)

Ellaria and Olenna depart Dragonstone as well, to prepare for the siege of King’s Landing

Melisandre begins to finally push her agenda on Dany, to convert many in Westeros to the religion of R’hllor, Dany is open to the idea of erecting a center where the Sept once stood that is open to those of all religions and inviting more red priests to Westeros to practice their faith

Varys is none too pleased with this and his irritation with Dany/Mel puts him into a gossipy mood

When Baelish inquires after the fact that Dany has no children from her previous relationships, Varys confirms she’s barren, and this is music to Baelish’s ears - even married, Jon and Dany would have to name a successor because Dany can’t birth one and the most prominent name on the list of potentials would be Sansa, who is already Jon’s heir for the Northern crown

Varys quickly guesses Baelish’s scheme but for once, isn’t opposed to his former friend’s plot to get Sansa on the throne (he’s more intrigued than anything), he fears Melisandre and her magic, that her influence over Dany and Jon will lead to much trouble later on

To push Varys finally over to his side permanently, Baelish points out Dany’s house words will always be “Fire and Blood” and that if it were between her and Baelish, she would be the real “Queen of the Ashes” - a tip off to Varys that Baelish knew of his/Olenna’s S3 conversation when Varys first said Baelish would “see the country burn to be King of the Ashes”

At Varys’ slightly troubled/embarrassed look, Baelish reminds Varys he had eyes and ears all over King’s Landing, and still does...

At Jon and Dany’s urging (they both hate him and don’t entirely trust him) Baelish reluctantly leaves Dragonstone also, he’s to meet the KOTV and other northern forces when they reach the capital, Varys accompanies him

IN WINTERFELL:

Bran and Arya have formed a deep bond in their short time together, Bran sharing with Arya all he knows of his powers and he mentions his powers aren’t exclusive to his being the 3ER - that some of them are because he is a Stark, and that Arya is a Stark as well - Arya scoffs at what Bran is implying but Bran just utters something mysterious and vague that Arya can’t argue with

At Jon’s news and Bran’s urging, Arya is to go to the Riverlands to deliver the message personally to Edmure about sending troops to King’s Landing

Arya is hesitant to leave Winterfell, but Bran tells her something that makes her want to go - the things she asked Bran to look into, she’ll find in King’s Landing/her journey to, and Bran knows just where she needs to look...

Sansa doesn’t want Arya to leave, all her family is leaving Winterfell again (like Season 1), she worries none of them will come back, they’re “the last of the Starks”, but Arya insists they will all be back, there’s just a few things she’s left behind, Brienne will train Sansa in Arya’s stead and Arya quips that Sansa will be better than her by the time she gets back

Northern forces leave Winterfell

Arya leaves Winterfell

IN KING’S LANDING:

Davos and Tyrion come across Gendry and Davos gives him a sample of the dragonglass, Gendry says the material is tricky, but he should be able to work with it

The trio prepare to leave King’s Landing but Davos senses a storm coming in, they’ll have to wait in the city a few days and lay low in Gendry’s shop - Davos/Tyrion send a raven to Dragonstone saying where they are and that they’ve succeeded in finding the weapon smith

Title is simply for the substance driving the plot this entire episode - the Dragonglass. It’s what takes Theon North (toward Sansa), what urges Davos to find Gendry, and what brings Jon and Dany closer together/what makes Dany more sure of Jon’s telling the truth about the AOTD.

Episode 4 Inside the Episode: Dragonglass

1) Baelish and Varys:

Inarguably, the second-worst subplot of the entirety of Season 7 was the Winterfell plot (the first being the Wight Hunt). It was unnecessary and ridiculous. This is when the mischaracterization of the Starks began. Arya and Sansa would not be at odds with each other upon reuniting and we all know it, even with Baelish in the picture. Sansa tells Jon in 6x10, “only a fool would trust Littlefinger” and yet she does so throughout most of S7, being the fool she had already warned Jon against. Remember what I said in the preface post about things being easily “undone” or forgotten entirely? Seems Sansa forgot to be wary of Baelish in show canon.

Also, I most definitely think we were owed one more encounter between Varys and Baelish. By killing Baelish off when the show did, it significantly simplified both their potential plots for Season 7 (and 8) because neither had anyone to spar with, as they had in previous seasons. Baelish’s “sparring partners” became Sansa and Arya and Varys’ became Tyrion, both unsuccessfully.

Further proof that Baelish and Varys were supposed to “get the band back together” so to speak, is two of Varys’s lines/conversations with/about Baelish are echoed in each of the final two seasons. First, in 7x02 when Tyrion tells Dany she’s “not here to be Queen of the ashes”. As mentioned above, Varys told Olenna Tyrell that “[Littlefinger] would see this country burn if he could be King of the Ashes,” (3x04) - it’s the exact same phrase and Varys is present when Tyrion says this to Dany in 7x02.

Next, in 8x04, Varys and Tyrion talk about “the realm”. Varys reminds Tyrion he “serves the realm” and Tyrion asks “what is the realm.” Varys has a very similar conversation with Baelish in 3x06 (Baelish’s infamous “Chaos is a ladder” speech).

These two lines/conversations, I think, are absolutely not a coincidence and further point to a previous plot/script whose lines and scenes are hidden just beneath the ones we watched. Baelish’s presence is felt in these scenes with Varys, but he’s not actually there. Having Baelish around this time gives the audience fulfillment that canon did not.

And as we’ve never seen them on the same side before, it would make for interesting conflict to see them team up against Dany.

Varys is uncomfortable with Melisandre and her magic and this needs to be paid off. As I stated last episode, it was set up and then never done anything with. It makes way more sense for Varys to part ways with Dany over this and have a payoff for it, than him turning on Dany for Jon when he doesn’t even know Jon.

Baelish pushing Varys into this is also the natural progression of things as Baelish will manipulate anyone in order to get what he wants: he and Sansa on the Iron Throne, ruling Westeros. Varys knew Sansa from when she was a little girl in King’s Landing and admits he admired her father. Varys supporting Sansa over say Jon, would make more sense.

2) Missandei attempting to translate the COTF cave markings:

I know it seems weird guys. But hear me out. It gives Missandei a PURPOSE this season, gives her a job, an important one, and it uses her skillsets in regards to the endgame of the series: defeating the Army of the Dead. These ruins were heavily emphasized in 7x04 and the symbols even made it all the way into 8x01 with the Night King’s lovely art installation piece of Ned Umber on the wall with a bunch of body parts. These symbols NEED to be figured out. And I’m all for my girl Missandei getting to flex a little.

Plus, Missandei went to the cave with Jon, Dany, and Davos in show canon. Why not, uhh, idk, have her take a look and give her opinion on what they could possibly mean?? You know, just stating the obvious here, don’t mind me!

3) Gendry

Doy, another no-brainer. Aside from fucking and getting rejected by Arya, Gendry’s S8 story was about fashioning dragonglass weapons, but he was pulled into the 7x06 “Suicide Squad” for idiotic reasons.

Having Davos seek him out to work the dragonglass solves two problems: a) It explains how and why Gendry becomes the head weapon maker with the dragonglass at Winterfell in show canon, and b) gives Davos a REAL reason to seek him out, rather than, oh yeah, I liked this kid, gonna go see if he’s alive and around anywhere. Cuz that was just dumb and nonsensical.

4) Lastly Arya leaving Winterfell after arriving so soon...?

I know this may seem strange as well. But in this context, Arya isn’t leaving Winterfell permanently. Which was just dumb after she fought so hard to get back home and fought so hard for her home. It also gives her her own journey, not just sitting around Winterfell waiting for Jon to get back with Daenerys and waiting for the dead to come. As to what Arya’s going to find in King’s Landing/on her journey there, you’ve probably already guessed. And as for Bran’s hints that Arya’s got similar powers to him...you’ve also probably already guessed what these might be.

Aaaaand that’s it for Episode 4. As always, you guys can comment on these and tell me what you think, ask questions etc. It’s allowed. Don’t be shy. Especially since this is the episode that probably is the greatest divergence from canon yet, I’d love to hear your guys opinions.

Original Final Season 7: Preface Post

Season 7 Episode 1: Family, Duty, Honor

Season 7 Episode 2: Greywater Watch

Season 7 Episode 3: The Last of the Dragons

Season 7 Episode 4: Dragonglass (Current Episode)

Season 7 Episode 5: The Storm

Season 7 Episode 6: Summerhall

Season 7 Episode 7: A City Fit For A King

Season 7 Episode 8: Protectors of the Realm

Season 7 Episode 9: The Battle For The Dawn

Season 7 Episode 10: ?

#game of thrones #anti got #anti D&D #original final season 7 of game of thrones #jon snow #daenerys targaryen #melisandre #varys #petyr baelish #Arya Stark #bran stark #Sansa Stark #Gendry Waters #Theon Greyjoy #missandei #grey worm

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nyangibun · 5 years

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GoT S08E03 Thoughts

The fuck???

I actually have no idea how to feel about this episode or what was really even happening because jfc, the lighting was so dark and everything was moving so fast. At one point, I was wondering who the f I was even watching.

I feel with retrospect, I’ll have a lot more to say, but as these posts are my immediate thoughts, here we go.

We got another shot of Alys Karstark for apparently no reason. It’s weird that we were introduced to her in S7 so we know what she looks like and we keep seeing her in S8 without any payoff. Most characters we recognise that appear on screen serve a purpose. Ned Umber showed up because he needed to die for the Night King’s Cool Abstract Art. But seriously, I know non-Jonsa’s think the kidnap plot is ‘delusional’ but tell me, what purpose does Alys serve? Maybe it’s not a kidnap plot but I believe there will be some kind of mistaken identity or switch. I don’t know. I really don’t know why else she would keep reappearing in every episode thus far -- not to mention Sophie Turner’s behind-the-scenes photo where she is wearing a similar dress to what Alys was wearing in Ep 1.

I have a gripe with this episode (amongst others). Why the hell is Ghost out there? Why is he running with Jorah and the Dothrakis? Even if he is going to fight in this battle, it doesn’t make sense he’d choose to do so alongside people he doesn’t even know. Also, we didn’t get a death scene so is he alive? Did they seriously CGI Ghost in 2 episodes to do absolutely fuck all and then die? I will riot in the streets, D&D.

Speaking of the Dothraki, what was the damn point of them? They literally died in 0.5 seconds. That was it. I know people had to die and hordes of ‘em but it felt like a complete waste of the Dothraki plotline. Also, didn’t Dani take all of the fighting men to Westeros to fight in her damn war? So now the entire Dothraki civilisation is basically massacred and there’s only the women and children left? Like damn, talk about a bad time. The Dothraki randomly charging like that was dumb AF as well. Why would you charge into an army that you know is 3-4 times the size of yours? I’m no battle strategist but I feel like that was a dumb idea.

In terms of the battle, I really don’t know what to say. There were cool moments (ie. Arya being a badass and killing wights left and right) and then there were just wtf moments. My issue with the battle sequence was mostly just the sensory overload. There was so much going on everywhere at the same time and it was hard to keep track of what was actually going on. I also felt a little underwhelmed by the usefulness of the dragons. I suppose it was to say that the dragons can be defeated and are not the tide-changing weapons they have been in the past, which doesn’t bode well for them in the future. Btw, did Rhaegal die? Like... he fell out of the sky? And then disappeared? Are we down to just Drogon?

And now, a moment of silence for our fallen brethren: Edd (thank you for saving Sam), Lyanna (my badass child, thank you for so cooly killing that giant), Beric (thank you for saving Arya) and Theon (wtf Bran?! you really knew our boy was gonna die and you were all ‘you’re a good man’ and then that’s it?!).

Okay, that’s not fair. I guess Bran saying that to Theon allowed him to reach full circle with his redemption arc. He has fully atoned for his sins against House Stark. But I still think his death was bullshit. Although I loved the moment between Bran and Theon when Bran tells him that all of his decisions had led him here: home. That was definitely what Theon needed to hear and I am glad he got that before he died.

I just want to talk about Jonerice. The scene before the battle starts, they are standing overlooking the battlegrounds together, but there is a considerable amount of distance between them physically. The framing is definitely still pitting them at odds with each other since last episode’s reveal. And their conversation is also heavy with tension. It’s a good reminder that Dance of Dragons 2.0 is very much still on the table despite them working together in this episode, though that isn’t going to last long.

Jorah’s unwavering love and loyalty to Dani serves as the perfect foil to Jonerice’s weak and unconvincing romance. Time and time again, he has proven the depth of his feelings for Dani and it is him that comes to her rescue, not Jon (though ofc Jon has bigger fish to fry). And despite her not reciprocating her feelings for him, Jorah is someone she cared about and I think his death will be something she holds against the North. What I mean by that is she will think that because she has fought for the North and lost half of her army and someone she loves, they must bend the knee or else. I mean I get where she’s coming from 100%. Dani risked a lot to fight, whether her reason was altruistic or not, she has. But the problem is the North can’t afford to fight in her war with Cersei. And yes, she fought for them but they have also been through hell serving foreign rulers. This is going to be a huge point of conflict going forward but we already knew that. Now there’s just this added element.

Also, wait... Both Lyanna and Jorah are dead. What happens to House Mormont now? Is there even another Mormont left?

I know there weren’t any Jon x Sansa interactions and that sucks, I admit, but it’s also okay. I was happy with Tyrion and Sansa’s interactions there. Sansa has effectively said goodbye to all of her potential suitors. When Tyrion says ‘maybe they should’ve stayed married’ and Sansa responds with ‘it wouldn’t work between us; we have divided loyalties’, that ends all of the speculations that Tyrion and Sansa would re-marry or legitimize their marriage. And Sansa’s right. After the battle is over, the politics begin and their loyalties are divided. Tyrion is loyal to Dani who wants the Iron Throne and the Seven Kingdoms, and Sansa is loyal to House Stark and Northern Independence. Like I said, this is going to be a huge focus in the upcoming episodes for all of the characters. They came together despite differences to fight for the living but now they will have to choose sides on the future of the living. Tyrion and Sansa will be on opposite sides but I do maintain that Tyrion will eventually lose faith in Dani and betray her.

In any case, Sansa basically points out that in order for a marriage to work, their loyalties and thus their goals for the future would have to be the same. Now, whose loyalties and goals coincide with Sansa’s? Jon. They are both loyal to House Stark first and foremost and then to the North. At this point, let’s be honest, there are no more eligible bachelors that we know of in Westeros. I mean technically, there’s Jaime, but as if that would happen with all of the Braime scenes this season and the lack of any interaction between Sansa and Jaime. I also don’t think Jaime will survive the season. I hope he does but I just don’t have a lot of faith he will. Redemption arcs and all that. Jon still remains her most viable option to further the House Stark line. Unless everyone dies in the end, succession is an important aspect of the story.

I also remember someone mentioning that Tyrion could be a possible reason why Sansa gets kidnapped, as in he’ll betray her to save his skin when Bronn comes to kill him. I don’t know how much I believe this tbh but he does say that Sansa underestimates the lengths he’ll go to in order to avoid being apart of the Army of the Dead. While he is talking presently and maybe only about dying and becoming one of them, he might mean death itself. Take what you will. I’m not sure how much I believe in this theory.

As for Arya, well, what is there to say? She is the best and I love her. I really didn’t expect it at the start of this episode she’d be the one to kill the Night King but after Melissandre’s comment to her, it was pretty obvious. I don’t really have anything to say about that just that I love her and want to protect her. I also like Melissandre a lot and Beric and hers are the only deaths in this episode that gave me a sense of closure. Their story had come to an end and it made sense. For everyone else, I am still very wtf about it.

Anyway, so let’s do a head count of the survivors: all the Starks (Jon, Arya, Bran, Sansa), Tormund, Brienne, Jaime, Sam, The Hound, Dani, Drogon, Missandei, Tyrion, Varys, Gendry, Davos...

People I have no idea if they survived: Podrick? Gilly and lil Sam? Ghost? Rhaegal? Grey Worm? Alys?

Am I missing anyone?

#jonsa #game of thrones #jon x sansa #anti jonerys #anti daenerys #spoilers #got spoilers #got s8 #my thoughts #long post

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