#it isnt your ship is also fucking gross

[rise-my-angel]

ok I love your blog bc I love your opinions on the show/ books. As someone who ONLY watched the show and knows a little lore from the books, why are jonsas so crazy???? as far as I’m concerned Jon didn’t really think about Sansa (apart from some worry of her and Arya being in kings landing) until she showed up to castle black and then his happiness at that was because he was like shit I have a little piece of family back. I did not infer that to be romantic at all???? Where are they finding all this supposed subtext of them loving each other? 🤮 she also betrayed him by telling his secret that literally could’ve gotten him killed. How is that “love”

Its even funnier because Sansa in the books has never left the Vale since arriving. She is nowhere NEAR Jons story. Also they basically NEVER think about each other.

Like, Jon only ever thinks of her in terms of "my sisters" when hes lumping both her and Arya in together.

Sansa at first only ever thought about him in a derogatory way, because she was very classist about having a bastard brother and hardly respected him at all. Like wishing Arya was a bastard too so she wouldn't be obligated to care about her as much.

In the books currently she is in disguse as Petyr Baelish's bastard daughter, and only when anothet character talks down to her for being a bastard in the exact way Jons faced his whole life only then did she briefly go "why is he being mean is it cua he thinks I'm a bastard i hate that" without the self awareness that she treated Jon worse then that.

Also, Arya is said to look extremely similar to Jon, and Sansa who looks very Tully, constantly insults Aryas appearance and calling her "so ugly only Hodor would marry her". So what does that tell you what Sansa likely thinks of what Jon looks? Well she thinks Aryas ugly and even comments Arya looks just like Jon ergo she clearly thinks Jon is ugly. (Which is funny considering how many Northerners all say Jon is pretty and handsome).

Basically their interactions in the books is almost non existent, because despite Jon loving all his siblings he was always looked down on by Sansa because he isna bastard. They have no connection what so ever.

I mean in the show before season 6, they're only even in the same FRAME in the shots where all the Starks are lined up to receive the Kings Company and never again.

Their dynamic in season 6 is entirely show fabricated is based on literally nothing. Not from the show or the books. They literally just put Sansa with Jon because they wanted Sansa to be more of a main character and so its easier to do that if shes in Jons story since he is basically the shows protagonist at that point.

But Jonsas are fucking nuts. They point to the most batshit of claims to proove its real and when you look at their so called "evidence" its just a drunk hampster drooling in the floor. There is nothing.

They literally one passed around A LINE FROM A FANFICTION and pretended it was a book quote to justify their ship. They literally have to lie and pretend fanfiction lines are canon to the books thats how much they have to stretch their delusional ship to even remotely make it make sense.

But it doesn't. Cus Jon isn't into incest. So there is no relationship. Also Sansa in the show is nice to him for like 1 episode and then she repeatedly is hostile, argues, shits on him and breaks his trust repeatedly.

I hate pretty much all Jon ships because none of them respect Jon as a character, they just use him as arm candy to make the female look better. But jonsas are a toxic ass breed of shippers.

They genuinely will argue that every single Jon scene ia secretly about Sansa. Meanwhile they never argue every Sansa scene is about Jon.

Because Jon isn't the character they care about in that ship its ONLY Sansa.

It....I could go on for fucking ever.

I hate Jonerys, Jonrya and Jongritte stans. But I hate none of them more then I hate Jonsas. They clog up so much of Jon discussion spaces with their fucking delusional incest fanfiction.

[paledarklight]

my god can you STFU?? You keep telling people “you didn’t actually watch the show!” No you didn’t! You say Carol is a whore and a creepy person, when she isn’t . Fans of Carol x Daryl might say “oh this oh that!” But they are the ones making to weird, not the characters and the writers. Also stop attacking the fucking actors! What the hell is wrong with you? What did the girl who play Carol do to you?

Don’t get me started on being a hypocrite and a liar. And saying things like “I don’t attack people!” But literally are mean to everyone no matter how nice they are. (Yeah I saw that person asking questions nicely and the way you responded to them? Ew. Just ew. They didn’t say or bring up half the shit you mentioned and you were a fucking ass.)

Yeah the gross sexual messages are gross. I’m sorry you get those! They aren’t fun I know. Don’t respond to them, people will send more trust me! (I’ve had people send shit like that to me)

People are hating on you because you are a proshipper and have openly admitted to being okay with older men dating underage girls! (Don’t care if “16 is legal” it’s still gross and shouldn’t be legal) But when two people have a like 2-5 year age gap both above the age of 30? Oh no that’s wrong! Because the woman is older and has a husband before! (Even thought it’s not canon and she doesn’t ever flirt with Daryl. It’s almost always a joke?)

also Daryl is late 30s or early 40s I’ve always put him around 39. That doesn’t make shipping him with a 16 year old okay. Don’t care if she turns 18 at one point, that’s still so weird. (And I’m not saying Daryl is a creep, why? Because it’s not fucking canon. He’s a good guy and I love Beth and his relationship with Beth. I don’t see it as romantic because that’s gross! If you had a better explanation other than just “oh it’s legal” maybe I wouldn’t think it’s so gross. But yk you are a fucking weirdo for saying that)

Calling all the shippers people who condone SA and saying it about not even shippers? Ew wtf. Don’t even get me started on the fact that you seem to be a bigger fan of the ship than the shippers!

Oh also it’s not SA to jokingly flirt with your friend or provide comfort to them! Especially when they don’t ever out rightly say not to. If anything you go back and watch later seasons and Daryl likes being around Carol! Why? Because they are friends. You are the only person I’ve seen say weird shit. And again, THE SHIP ISNT CANON. Yes Carol has done shit, but they only reason you seem to hate her are because of a couple toxic shippers.

And I wouldn’t have a problem with any of this, if you were a good person! If you didn’t lie and say weird ass shit all the time. You probably are a troll I know. But it’s annoying.

(Also not everyone woman who is friends with a man wants them for sex? And if you are going to say characters are bad? Have good points! And hold up other characters (that are usually worse) as well. They are just as bad. Fuck you and have a good night)

oh also I saw you say “don’t make everything sexual!” No one is, it’s just you (also your ao3 bookmarks are public… why are you reading smut about a 16 year old and a guy in his 40s- sorry my bad can’t have my own headcanons, late 30s? Kind of weird… someone people not like us by Kendrick!)

xoxo a bitch ass mf (WHO DOESNT SHIP BETH WITH ANYONE AND DOESNT SHIP DARYL WITH ANYONE SO DONT YOU DARE DO THAT SHIT) eat my shit!

I saw you say if they don't say No then it's okay to verbally sexually molested them so everything you said suddenly doesn't matter.

[pngjamie]

This is a genuine question, what constitutes proshipping?

As far as I know proshipping is just pro ship? Where you believe people can ship what they want even if you don’t enjoy it or don’t want to interact (kind of like an overall non harassment label)

If im wrong about this correct me, im just confused on how it’s a bad thing

Proshipping isnt just "I believe you can ship whatever even if I dont like it" Proshipping as a label is a term used to tell people "I believe you can ship whatever even if its abusive, incestual or pedophilia" i personally dont mind if people ship something I dont like what i DO mind and DONT fuck with is people shipping an abuser with their victim because "if the abuser was literally entirely different then theyd be so cute together"

or shipping a child with an adult because "okay but if they were the same age itd be cute"

or shipping family because "if they werent related it be adorable"

or in worse cases they just straight up romanticize, sexualize or fetishize abuse, pedophilia and/or incest.

The two common excuses/explanations ive seen are 1 some people use it to cope so its good for them 2 I dont condone it irl so its fine To which I say, I actually dont find any fucking comfort in people changing abusive relationships or romanticizing it so that "yay its cute now <3" ive seen artists/people engage in some of these things but its VERY clear that its fucking WRONG. They demonize the hell out of the problematic part making it clear that its not okay Whereas proshippers (especially in this situation) are just going "theyre cute together idc" and romanticizing and NORMALIZING things like incest, abuse and pedophilia WHICH IS NOT OKAY. Which is why even if you dont condone it irl you shouldnt support, promote or engage in that shit where vulnerable people (rather by current mental state or young) could see it and get desensitized to it and either become complacent in their horrible situation or hurt someone later. Also not as strong as the other points but if you tell me "yeah I ship this brother and sister who are also in a somewhat abusive/toxic relationship already" I dont care if you dont support it irl I think youre fucking gross for romanticizing that.

genuinely hope this helps cause I know for awhile years back I didnt know what proshipping was and was like "wait huh? but i support shipping i like shipping" Proshipping is NOT for general shipping :')

[boywifesammy]

im sure everyone’s seen the argument by non-wincest shippers that canon weirdcest moments can be explained off as particularly close brothers. i’ve seen wincesties respond by straight up denying it, but honestly, i see where they’re coming from. they do TECHNICALLY have a point, yet still, it fundamentally doesnt sit well with me.

if you isolate all of these little incidents they could be perceived as purely brotherly. its got me thinking about what exactly makes wincest so appealing, and why i as a wincest shipper immediately have an exasperated reaction to people insisting that sam&dean are purely platonic.

i also see this argument frequently bundled with the stance that “weirdcest isn’t a justification for shipping wincest” (which is a whole other can of worms altogether— the puritan culture of ship culture rn), but you gotta take a step back and just ask yourself… why am i so intent on seeing these characters as platonic?

the prevailing argument ive seen is that siblings CAN be terribly close without being incestuous. this is totally fair. i’m not saying that if you are particularly close with your siblings in a sam & dean type manner that you are incestuous. obviously relationships between family is vastly complex & changes with the culture you grew up in.

the only problem here is that people try to go so far to explain sam&dean’s relationship as to not paint it as romantic. if they weren’t related, it’d be insane to think they weren’t romantic. they are consistently and repeatedly put in situations and exchange dialogue that’s used to convey romantic tone in western media. my point here being— the writers know that they are doing. and they are doing it INTENTIONALLY.

yes, certain cultures find extensive physical touch and kisses between siblings platonically acceptable. yes, you can be very close to your siblings without wanting to fuck them. but that is such a reach given what you are being presented with. you are missing the fundamental thematic point of supernatural: family horror!!

by so steadfastly arguing that sam&dean cannot be read as romantic you are purposefully ignoring the the text. you are glossing over the repeating themes of generational trauma and incest that are touched on time and time again, with john’s father abandoning him, mary’s parents being hunters, the struggle she went through to get out of the life but how family trauma & the past permeates itself into your being. you are ignoring the benders, the ghost pregnant with her fathers child, and the time azazel KISSED MARY in HER FATHERS BODY.

supernatural pushes incestuous themes SO HARD. it purposefully plays with & explores the double-sided blade that is family. it touches on a REALLY TABOO subject without being overwhelming or heavy handed. of course its going to attract people who enjoy these themes. OF COURSE we’re going to look at the two homoerotic brother leads and see something between them! it’s intentionally placed in the script! its a valid reading of the text!

this is why i get frustrated when people say that wincest shippers are twisting canon for the sake of shipping, because we’re not. when people say this they are taking a piece of media that is intriguing in how it handles a socially unacknowledged part of the human experience and forcing their viewing of it on others. they are saying that you aren’t allowed to enjoy those themes because it is inherently wrong or shameful to EXPLORE THE TOPIC. i dunno. that sounds pretty authoritarian to me.

it’s totally fine to be grossed out by incest or avoid wincest because it makes you uncomfortable. what ISNT okay is to say its an exaggerated reaction to canon, because it really isnt. in fact, its a pretty normal & sane conclusion to come to after seeing those two. the fact that they aren’t explicitly incestuous might even enhance this idea. it touches on the unspoken secretive nature of family trauma and the complicated, messy reality of crossing boundaries with blood without being cliche or overdramatic.

im going to incite occam’s razor here: yes, they could just be brothers. yes, you can explain it all away as particularly close siblings. yes, you can argue that it isnt explicitly canon. but really, why would you do all that when the show incessantly implies that they’re more? and more importantly, why are you so quick to say that a topic cannot be explored because it’s complicated? is that really the sentiment that we as a society want to hold regarding media?

[mvmnbnv]

Hi, I don’t know if you’ve spoken in depth about your feelings on Vi’s relationship with Caitlyn or what you think of Caitvi, but I know you mentioned you can’t seem to enjoy the ship as much. Although they said Arcane is now canon, we can all assume the general direction of her character will be like in the game. How do you feel about that? Would you be satisfied?

I know for myself I can relate to not being able to enjoy the ship as much. How I consume content around them has kinda been lowkey ruined because of their fans. I definitely think I’m being ridiculous and overly sensitive.

I just dislike how they’ve chosen to speak on the overall characters/plot/storyline especially ones that are quite serious, but then analyze things in the most black and white way. Including Vi’s character where they can’t even try to put herself in her shoes and think about everything she’s experienced, but then just be so…shallow about it. It’s like they’re not seeing her entire character or story. Just her relationship. Her own fans can’t even give her some basic empathy.

I hate how I’m basically letting them ruin the show for me. It’s ridiculous of me to react this way.

hi!

i havent spoken in depth here about caitvi mostly because my content is pretty vi centric. if anything i just mention caitlyn in passing unless i have an analysis on her too. but i really am unsure about how i feel about the ship atm, and its mostly because of what we've already seen but also what we havent seen. and yeah then there's the fandom itself. they speak about vi in pretty shallow ways when it comes to her pain and it just gets frustrating. but its also the choices theyve let us know they made with her and it almost seems like she has no plot outside of caitlyn. during her pitfighter arc caitlyn is all she thinks about. not vander? her mom? Loris (her big enforcer buddy) after they parted ways? hell not powder??? the one who she failed in her mind?? they were planning on putting a cupcake on the back of her jacket? really...? during a time like that? meanwhile one of the writers go on about listening to songs about unrequited love and how they inspired her decisions...like im not a fan. I already know the unrequited stuff is going to be coming from cait's side because of where she is at this point, while vi puts all this time into her, another creator even implying that cait is pretty much home for her now.. the imbalance in this relationship is just icky to me and i feel bad for vi's end of it. especially after having everything ripped from her during her pitfighter arc. for fuck sake i need them to adress this attitude she has toward caitlyn as the character flaw that it is. but the thing is i havent even watched the show so how do i know they dont, yknow? and the way things are set up in their LoL lore, from vi having her own place to them only being speculated to have had something going on by the people around them but not really being confirmed, makes me hopeful for vi. i need her to start putting up boundaries, start having a spine and to not just lean on caitlyn, because we already see it not end well for her. this season is going to stress their power imbalance further and it makes me just hope they go about it in the right way, and that vi isnt just some love sick puppy crawling back to cait after all the shit she's done (enacting martial law, working with ambessa etc) because she's dependent, espeically when one of the writers has been going on about unrequited love...that just feels gross.

in conclusion yeah, its kind of a mix of fandom and what has been presented so far as far as trailers and whatnot. dont feel bad that thats how you feel, it happens lol. but we all will have plenty of time to make our own conclusions when we see the show in its full glory

[ilikegoilss]

im only addressing this because ive been seeing people bringing one of my mutuals into it, which isnt cool. i want to pretend like this never happened. but i cant.

i drew something for an online friend who i no longer talk to. they posted it without my permission, and im contacting mods to take the post down since you cant delete your own post due to the regulations on the website they posted on. this art i made i DONT agree with, and ill admit, i shouldnt have drawn it. its gross and supports a ship i DONT support.

a user has put it as their banner. its fucking mortifying that its being spread, because i never even wanted it out there in the first place. its an explicit drawing. i am a MINOR. this user has also been really weird and sexual to said mutual. ive DMed them to take it down, and this post is being made ~20 hours after ive asked them to take it down. sorry if thats too short, ive just been barely able to function since this started.

im so fucking embarrassed, ashamed, and mortified. ive been stressing like shit over this for the past day or two—my hands are shaking as i type this. im really sorry about all of this.

i dont want to share who my friend was because they dont have tumblr, plus theres a lot of personal stuff going on with them and between us.

if you wanna know more, feel free to DM me. i wont answer questions that are asking for information of my friend. i wont expose them just because they fucked me over.

also sorry if it seems like im overreacting, just like i stated before, people are bringing a mutual of mine into this and i really dont want people connecting them with it. they have nothing to do with this.

i dont want this blowing up. please stop interacting with the drawing, if you find it on the website they posted it on please please please spam report if you can. i dont really know how it works. this is legit my worst nightmare.

[milfygerard]

we were eating good food after the bad blood music video came out, and then fandom somehow managed to apply the "your ship is only valid if it's canon" flop logic to rpf and it was all downhill from there.

i do wish people weren't writing about karlie's real children because that's kind of an unspoken rule of rpf to avoid kids and non public figures but like. so much potential! so much food left on the table while people squabble! FLORIDA!!!!!! dkfhgjkg

it is funny how swiftie community kinda tries to distance itself from that kind of rpf fan language and community despite the fact that we're all still doing the same exact thing but everyone has to act like the discovered the Ultimate Truth of her relationships instead of just admitting that something is interesting to them and they think it warrants conversation and art and fanwork even if its unrealistic or untrue. In its lack the fanworks that do exist feel either antiseptic and restricted by whats Respectable and True or kind of skeezy and gross (that woman who fucking published her tayvis fanfiction and it just. it felt bad.)

kaylor is a big point bc i think the kind of concerning intensity of the LSK conspiracy community would be a lot less intense if fic actually played a role but like just in general! taylor hangs out w and performs w has chemistry w so many women many of whom are already gay or bi and also are so hot and also have crazy chemistry w her! Have fun and fly free! she isnt even on this site anymore you cab post whatever!

[first-only]

Can I say something that might possibly be a 'hot take'?

I really don't like the rise of the whole 'He would not fucking say that' meme (and a lot of its variations). I know it's probably a joke (I'm too autistic to tell how serious people are with it lol.), and I can understand being annoyed when someone writes a character OOC, but OOC-ness is not really that big of a deal. Don't like, don't read, you know

I feel like it's also going to cause a lot of paranoia in fanwork creators, and I don't like that. And I should know, it's caused some paranoia in me (even though I've always been of the opinion that OOC-ness doesn't matter, in fact I celebrate it, just let people have fun. Despite all this, the meme still affects me and makes me worry)

I feel like the only time that OOC-ness can be a problem is when an indivisual/a fandom has a fanon that they like and they don't let anyone disagree with or write differently then that fanon. But I feel like that's not even an issue with OOC-ness, it's an issue with people (usually BNFs) being jerks and trying to get other people to conform to what they want

I don't know, maybe this whole thing is just a communal joke and I'm worrying over nothing. I'm not trying to ruin anyone's fun, have fun with your memes and all that, I just wanted to vent

(This ask is not directed at you FO, I know you're not the type to care about OOC-ness)

hard agreed actually, it's annoying as fuck

i honestly dont think it's that much of a joke to be honest, what with people making posts being all high par Make A Fucking OC and shit like??? who tf are u to tell me what to do lmao. if i want john winchester in a flower dress imma damn well make it, dont give a single fuck how Not Canon Compliant тм it is

thats the fucking point of fandom ya know? literally who cares. this whole thing reeks of the new-wave "it will never be canon so why ship it". like. its fandom material, none of it will be canon, the point is to have fun.

that and that one gross post "theres too much fluff of X" bitch?? i like fluff about X. you dont get to say what everyone creates, you dont have to like all of it. just pick the stuff you like, it isnt difficult.

AND those posts that keep popping up in "proshipper" spaces that go 'i know it's just fiction but guys. content about X chara being Y is /actually/ really bad;///'... it's like people completely forget their fundamental ideology about fiction when their own specific identity happens to be the thing that's bothering them this time. so is content that makes people uncomfortable 'allowed' or not? make up your mind, no doublebacksies. and who tf are you to not allow it in the first place but i guess there's enough people who for some reason get anxious over randos' opinions on the internet to feel bad about it so...

anyway, yeah. personal tastes do not dictate people's politics. this relates to yet another popular discourse lately:)

[curdled-blood]

Ur fav chars in general? (or comfort)

OOOHOOOOOOOOOOOO EEEEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEH

I'm so happy you asked anon !! Here's how I'm gonna do this. I'm just gonna name my favs and comforts from the fandoms I'm in + some honorable mentions :3 (no particular order btw)

First things first!!

Creepypasta !!

• Ok obviously Jeff the killer but tbh idk if he's my favorite per say, but he is DEFINITELY a source of comfort for me ever since I was like 10 😭 i even have an oc to ship eith him LOLL her name is Ashley King and tbh i should post abt her more i think yall would like her

• Idk why but I think my tippy top favorites gotta be the slender family. I just always been specifically obsessed with their aspects of the creepypasta... Ness. I've also become like super attached to my little versions of them eeehehehh. It fucking makes me mad that ppl r still attached to the gross version of Fen and won't MOVE THE FUCK ON FROM IT and get pissed when ppl make their own versions 😡

• LAUGHING JACK !!!!! HES SO SILLY AND DEVIOUS I LOVE HIM SM. I kinda go back and forth on sinking for him tbh, but this dude was a massive source of comfort to me in middle school

• Nurse Ann is my wife btw. We're literally married ong

• I always thought that Bloody Painter was pretty fucking neat and I liked how his story wasn't written like total DOG SHIT like most creepypastas. Tho I fucking hate his creator (BOOOO DOOODOOCAT U SUCK. SAME WITH LJ. BOOOOOOO 👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻)

My little pony

• Dear God ok I don't have a single favorite mlp character because I love so many of them that if I started naming my favorites, I'd end up naming every character in the fucking show 😭

• "But Lie!! Isn't it Fluttershy? Your pfp is her!!" ok I rlly like Fluttershy but idk if she's my favorite tho lol.

• Ok yk what I might be lying cuz I rlly do end up fixating on my hcs for her and her relationship with Discord lmaoooo. I just.. I just loved vampire!fluttershy flutterbat so fucking muuuuuch and discord with a vampire wife?!!?!??! AAAAAAAAAH.

• But discord is definitely a fav lolz. I love how he's literally just Q from star trek LMFAOOOO

• For some reason, I really really really LOOOOOOVE Spitfire's design AND name. I just love her colors, hair, and the fact that her name is Spitfire like the plane AHDHWHJAJA

• I've always been a big fan of Celstia too. I love how she's basically royal God but has this huge silly side :3

One piece

• Buggy. Buggy. Buggy. Buggy was my first favorite, as soon as I saw him I fell the fuck in love with him

• Crocodile is also so whdhajdjwiak. I love villains sm. I love when they're just evil to be evil.

• I think my favorite straw hats r Luffy, Chopper, and Nami. Nami just like me fr. I too am a red head who likes to steal money

• Ok so. This one isnt a favorite but he's a huge source of comfort because i made a whole ass oc to ship with him... It's fucking Klahadore. I've been obsessed with him lately I'm shriveling andjwjakkskdjan

Powerpuff Girls

• one of my main comfort characters is fucking Ace Copular from fucking power puff girls. YEAH. THE FUCKING GREEN POINTY GUY. it makes me wanna crumple in a ball I low-key wish he wasn't but I l9vr him sm and i wanna hit him with a hammer/aff

• HIM. I LOVE HIM SM I SDORE HIM AHDHWHSBGAGDGAGR

anyways anon thx for asking and I'm so sorry I went the fuck off

[francy-sketches]

I hateeee how asoiaf has just become the "incest books lol" to so many people. what a dumb and reductive way to look at a series that has so much more like. of all the things you could say are the central themes of asoiaf incest in not one of them lmao.(yes obviously it's present, but not nearly as much as people make it out to be) And this isn't about people who havent read it and are just judging from the outside bc who gives a shit about them. But I see this mostly from fans and its just??? what the fuck did you read/watch lmao. I mean even hotd which centers around thee incest family isnt about the incest and you'd have to have negative media literacy to think it is.

Also it's fucking insane how being uncomfortable with incest shipping gets you ridiculed in this fandom lmao. like I'm not here to be the morality police ship whatever the fuck you want idc. but dont be surprised when it makes people uncomfortable??? "ummm if you dont like incest why are you reading the incest books/watching the incest show??? weirdo" I dont fucking know man maybe all the other 348593 interesting things it's about. just a guess. And these are the same people who go on about "well just bc you write something fucked up doest mean you agree with it" which. yes! true!! then why do you uncritically endorse targ incest blood purity 😭 do you think maybe that's one of the things grrm wrote that he doesnt agree with? of course not, hotd is a cautionary tale about the dangers of not doing incest and what happens when you let your pure valyrian blood be contaminated by gross peasant genes from outside your family ^_^ obviously ^_^ and anyone who's not into your incest ships is a bigot <3 "but it's normal in their world!1!11!!!" no its not lol. and even if it was. marrying children is also normal in their world what's your point

[deafeninggardenerpanda]

franflam (they are not sisters)

ahahahahaHAHA this is exactly what i was expecting people to send in when i said "controversial ships". no one is ready for one of my signature franflam tangents

under the cut:

you know the last time i did this ship bingo thing someone asked me about franflam too and i just flat out refused to respond because i didnt want to touch the discourse with a ten foot pole. either me putting my opinions here will get me cancelled or it will summon some people hopefully sane about this discourse. i love gambling

to preface, my honest opinions on the matter are that whatever the hell those two got going on in canon is queerbaiting. i say this as someone who bought star allies on a whim at gamestop as their very first kirb game like two years after it released, not even knowing kirby still made games at that time, and thus played the game with zero biases towards anything but yeah those two were written with a weird attachment to each other and it would be stupid to outright deny that. do i think franflam is canon though?: absolutely not and also i hate everyone who claims that with a passion. you could make a claim with a reasonable amount of evidence for either side of the argument and the fact that its even remotely possible both could be true at once, along with kumazaki himself either refusing to elaborate or confirm, or giving even More support to Either side is absolute bullshit and any sort of grey area here is totally his and the writers faults so hey can we all stop arguing about what the "correct" answer is when there literally isnt really one

anyways with that out of the way, heres all of the reasons i hate franflam without mentioning "potential incest" as a concern even once

their dynamic in canon is stereotypical angry black woman is overprotective of stereotypical dainty elegant white woman. hate that. gives me bad vibes. the whole "to show one character is in love with the other, they talk about their love interest nonstop every half second" trope is absolutely HANDS DOWN my absolute least favorite romance trope EVER. it drives me absolutely insane. thats the #1 way to get me to hate both of the characters and their relationship the fastest. holy shit shut up and focus on the story and whats happening around you instead of shoehorning mention of the other person into your words nonstop. hate that. i also hate the "person a is overprotective of their love interest" trope too, esp when it extends into jealously of the other person hanging out with others (sparkling pupupu world does this, for example). feels gross. can feel infantizing. if people see that as romantic good for you but i can not see it ever. its overly possessive. i think having a trio of mages and having two of them being separated and off fucking around on their own all the time as their "happy ending" is bad writing, especially when it comes to zans character being so heavily affected by her isolation from others and how hyness treated her AND YOU JUST GO AND SEPERATE THEM INTO FRAN+FLAM AND ZAN+HYNESS ALL THE TIME FOR SOME REASON HELLO. JUST MAKE ONE MAGE CHARACTER IN THAT CASE IF TWO OF THE TRIO HAVE NO DEVELOPMENT OR PURPOSE OTHER THAN TO FUCK OFF BY THEMSELVES. and then people who ship franflam also often end up shipping hynzan cause of that EWWWWWW GROSSSSSSS. also fran+flam being more close because the jambacult is a broken family that needs to heal Or them being more close because flam is an overprotective older sibling are INFINITELY more interesting to me as concepts than: "fran+flam are closer to each other and not zan because theyre dating and thus inherently dont care about zan as much because platonic relationships are always secondary to romantic". hate that. and the fandom. oh my God as people might be able to tell by all of the arrows on the bingo sheet i have fucking FEELINGS about this this needs a whole new paragraph

okay so. so 😍. i have this thing i call "red flag ships" where the ships are fine as a concept on paper but for some reason the shippers are just absolutely Rancid and that throws me off from liking the ship in its entirely and i get really sussed out by anyone who ships it. franflam is a red flag ship. i think the shippers have gotten so used to being yelled at by people who think theyre siblings that theyve pavlov'd themselves into being insanely hostile and aggressive to anyone who doesn't ship them. at least thats what i can tell from anyone whos Open and remotely loud about shipping them. istg i am not joking in the slightest when i say 95% of my interactions with people who Happen to be big or even decently into shipping franflam have been godawful. the convos dont even have to be around franflam i just think the ship inherently attracts awful people because its only aggressive toxic people who arent scared about shipping it openly. is that generalizing?: Yeah but thats just my personal experience. i have never met someone loud about liking franflam or who makes content for it that wasnt an awful asshole or yikes person in some way

that said, people who really like the ship but are quiet or lowkey about it usually end up being super chill and cool. its just the goddamn Fandom i have an issue with really. so anyone whos normal about it i am so sorry for you lmao

in a somewhat unrelated manner, i used to be somewhat close with someone who had franflam as their ultimate otp and God they fucking sucked. apart from redirecting every convo ever to be about franflam, they were also insanely nasty to anyone who even remotely saw them as siblings because they inherently saw it as an attack against franflam, so theyd always be making comments like "can you believe anyones stupid enough to see them as siblings" and "kinda misogynistic and lesbiophobic that metadede and marxolor are more popular than franflam when franflam is so blatantly canon" and yadayadayada they would say that shit completely unironically even right in front of me when they knew i hc'd them as siblings. i could complain up enough of a storm about that person and all of the insane things they said and did to fill up another 10 paragraphs but in general they were awful and really awful to me and multiple friends and you know what. i fucking hate the ship because of that too. sue me i cant stand seeing it around and i get grossed out by it.

on another note if i see anyone trying to push franflam as canon i will kick your ass. it might seem like im complaining about a problem that doesnt exist since tumblr is very anti-franflam, but on other sites its the opposite and if i had a nickel for every stupid "franflam is definitely canon and the only canon option and here's why" argument ive ever heard and could Easily debunk i could buy a fucking mansion. how to tell franflam shipppers its Okay if their ship isnt canon challenge: impossible (generalizing ofc, this whole rant is generalizing. take with a grain of salt. man i hate franflam)

[scourgefrontiers]

not to be that guy again

but i also dont fuck with anybody who talks about "anti culture" or anything like that when it comes to how shit's portrayed in fiction. i super try to stay out of "proship vs anti" discourse bc its stupid as shit and i have other things to worry about than internet discourse. but i still cant help but express my beliefs which relate to the core argument

dont make me tap the sign. fictional exploration of pedophilia/incest/abuse/etc at all isnt the problem, its the way its portrayed. if youre out here portraying that shit as bad and inexcusable, then youre fine. if youre exploring it in a way that doesnt defend it, then youre fine. if youre out here saying that a 40 year old man getting it on with a 14 year old is cute or sexy, or that two brothers having a sloppy makeout is hot, then yeah im going to burn your house down with you in it

the thing about the "what about fictional murder??? ppl romanticize that all the time and you dont see people turning into murderers irl!" argument is that. well. people dont groom people with murder fics. ppl dont show others art of their favs getting murdered and then try to use that to justify them murdering someone. that just doesnt happen. what Does happen is that ppl use incest/pedophilic ships and art portraying it in a "cute" or "fun" light and they use that to justify their grooming actions. that does happen. ive Seen it happen.

and no, im not saying that getting rid of this depiction of these subjects in media or fanworks is going to Stop All Grooming. thats silly. i know that if theyre going to groom someone theyre going to find a way to do it anyway, im not an idiot. but all im saying is that this shit makes it easier, makes it more accessible, and may even make it more normalized, which i hope you can agree is a bad thing.

exploration is one thing! lots of gothic media has "problematic" shit like that in it. lots of fiction has gross shit that the author doesnt condone irl, theyre just exploring it through writing. however, romanticization is another thing. portraying it as cute and fun is another thing. trying to excuse it by saying its fiction is another thing. thats when you ascend to freak status in my book.

youre not ~making a statement~ by declaring yourself a Proud Proshipper--at least not the one you think you are. youre giving me the signal that you dont care about how certain subjects are portrayed even if theyre harmful, and youre telling me that i should stay far the fuck away from you.

last thing i'll say on this is that for the record i am also against purity culture. i dont think ppl should be watering down media to be Acceptable and Pure all the goddamn time. i dont think ppl should stay away from "problematic" media entirely as long as they can use their brains and be critical and not excuse or defend said problematic content. everything is problematic bitch lets get you some fruit. yknow? theres nuance and context to everything; things arent black and white. trying to take the problems out of everything is a waste of effort and frankly makes everything boring as shit. having said all this, the way things are portrayed and how you interact with them are still important factors and i will stand by that

aight rant over o7

[sevenrs]

3, 16, 22 👀

violence ask game ; OPEN

3. screenshot or description of the worst take you've seen on tumblr

that one guy who called slugcat shipping a time paradox is literally so fucking funny, but real answers... does it have to be on tumblr? because i can think of two i hated that i saw on discord. everything ive seen on tumblr i've personally disagreed with but i wouldn't call any of it bad ANYWAYS DISCORD a pre-downpour headcanon i saw in the official server was something like. "moon is only nice to you because she suffered :) her whole experience humbled her. if she was still standing, she'd be as ruthless as pebbles" SUFFERING IS NEVER A POSITIVE FOR ANYONE! i get this is like. not a real person but to imply that suffering somehow makes someone a better person (and not a better character) is sickening. i don't see it now that dp came out but. gross gross gross and take number 2. someone went on a rant in a discord server im in about how pebbles literally did nothing wrong because everything that led up to his situation wasn't really his fault-- moon stopped him or suns gave him the pearl. whats next. it's slivers fault for dying too? YES its information that shouldnt have been given but that doesnt mean pebbles DIDNT use it irresponsibly. he did. he was killing moon. and she was rightfully trying to save herself

16. you can't understand why so many people like this thing (characterization, trope, headcanon, etc)

something my friend also dislikes but. really dont like it when people depict artificer as soft. that is a war criminal perpetuating the cycle of violence that hurt her in the first place. i understand maybe sentimental about children because its a nice thought but other then that. that is someone with cold logic to justify her ruthless violence. YES she is sympathetic. but jegus. that cat sees murder for the sake of murder as an ok thing and the soft interp of her feels wrong

also uh. different thing entirely but. sorry i really dont understand sunx x pebbles. suns is very much a mentor to him and thinking about them getting together is uncomfortable to me. its the power imbalance to me. suns x pebbles isnt problematic to me (as long as you dont like. romanticize the potential abuse! my friend has seen some of that and its gross) but its a bit umcomfy

22. your favorite part of canon that everyone else ignores

anything i say about spirituality in rain world. im not religious and i honestly don't know the % of buddhists and hindus in this fandom but the inspirations are real and do matter and you cant brush karma and reincarnation off as a "game mechanic" because a lot of it does make sense in universe. all of it? i cannot explain all of it, either because it really doesn't make sense or i don't have the knowledge to yet. but literally being able to die and come back is not just a game mechanic! it's part of the lore!

[sevensfantasia]

edit: 2.14.24

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this is lengthy, so more after jump!

(general what i post, what i tag, dni list, and what i need tagged included)

what i post

the yakuza games

genshin impact

honkai star rail

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i tw sensitive content. i either go tw: (sensitive thing) or tw (sensitive thing)

i also try to tag spoiler/spoilers. i do a general rule of after 1 month of me seeing something or it being out for 1 month+ , i don’t spoiler tag then

what i need tagged

insects

spiders

body horror (a little blood is ok because i play m rated games)

ships!!! (please tag your ships. i don’t ship anything, but there are some ships that i am super uncomfy with due to age difference and things bringing back bad memories and whatnot)

dni if

fujoshi

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DDlg/CGl(re)/any related age play kink blogs

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thinspo

animal abuse

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overwatch league blog; fuck harryhook and fuck everyone who didn't believe me :3

xqc fan; dude is a piece of shit with a gross fanbase. dude has been banned from like 4 different games and owl because of how awful he is

cg/gg/hydra fan; fuck em and the toxic vibes they bring to the np community  

old scu fan; what they (a large chunk of scu) did to jakka re: their chats is super fucking shitty, fuck em

serval x gepard shippers

jing yuan x yanqing shippers

brian knight fans, only because i talk shit about him a lot and it's for your protection, not mine :3

pro AI users - your precious AI steals content from artists and writers in the fandom, and you should feel bad :3

hazbin/arcana fan - the creators are pieces of shit and their creations are shit, stay the fuck away. i post a lot of anti stuff for both creators too. just best to stay away

empty or untitled blog - this is always going to lead to at least a block. i will likely report you for being a bot

[transfemlogan]

🔥 6 and 22!!!

HAIII AMI ^_^

negative fandom ask game

which ship fans are the most annoying?

all of them /hj /silly NEHEKRNFJFJ

OBVIOUSLY. ANY BIG 3 SHIPPERS, THIS INCLUDES DEMUS SHIPPERS IM SORRY GUYS BUT...

prinxiety & logicality shippers r the fucking worse. i have rzns 4 hating those ships but also its just bcuz i fucking hate people who ship those. if u ship the most popular ship in any fandom i have 2 avoid u at all costs.

obviously its not EVERYONE but like ... all big 3 shippers always think their ship is the most canon & usually pick fights w/ other people or theyre the ones that ljke. will comment on ur other ship posts like "oh i guess this is cute. i dont ship this i ship PRINXIETY instead but yeah whatever i guess" like go away.

"umm virgil isnt dating logan??? thats his DAD gross!!! virgils dating ROMAN!" "janus isnt dating him :(( hes dating remus!! its literally canon" i send u off in2 space

2 b fair a lot of the big 3 shippers r... children, so im not that mad cuz they literally dont know how 2 interact w/ ppl yet.

roceit shippers can also get a little annoying. not in a mean way, like i love roceit shippers, they should be annoying bcuz everyone keeps calling their ship canonically abusive(???) but sometimes they get into it on twitter w/ roceit haters & its annoying 2 watch. no other shippers fight w/ their haters so heavily.

roceit fans can be annoying though. i think they are allowed to be. they can do whatever they want 4ever i will always defend roceit w/ my fucking life .

your favorite part of canon that everyone else ignores

APPARENTLY LOGAN'S CANONICAL FEELINGS TOWARDS THE DARK SIDES !!!

i keep seeing people say logan hates the dark sides or has a bias against them or whatever & my eye starts twitching.

im sorry but logan sanders is not SITTING OVER THERE !!! defending the dark sides EVERY FUCKING CHANCE HE GETS !!!! & treating them as if theyre normal sides & disagreeing w/ them , not bcuz he dislikes them as sides but bcuz he doesnt feel like its best 2 thomas but still RESPECTING THEM !!!!

like genuinely are we even watching the same series. where am i right now. i cant i cant i cant you cant say that 2 me ever

negative fandom ask game

[lesboygamzee]

Any examples about the gamtav artist thing?

i dont really want to give examples because i dont want to shit on specific artists even if they piss me off but i can elaborate on shit ive noticed . gonna get ranty so :

tl;dr : gamtav artists who are weird about gamzee and dont care about tavros have a weird way of characterising both which makes me very uncomfortable and im upset about it because im a little hater . and also because its gross and annoying

i feel like a lot of gamtav artists who just like gamzee and dont care much for tav make it pretty clear they just want gamzee to get what he wants forever and always . which is Bad . thats pretty vague still but yknow ..

they make tavros just kind of . there as a support to gamzee to kiss all his problems away and make him happy and dont really do much of the other way around ( and if they do its always gamzee being like ' [fucked up font] I WILL PROTECT YOU ' while also acting like a romantic relationship would fix tavs problems with .. romance related shit . because they dont want to see the actual issues tavros was going through because they dont care enough about her

obviously the soft non-confrontational accessory-to-another-character characterization of tav isnt specific to gamtav shippers . it is very unfortunately huge in the fandom . but its still very common with them despite it going against .. everything that makes the ship potentially interesting imo .

tavros isnt soft she doesnt go along with everything someone wants of her . especially not a highblood are you fucking insane . tavros should reject gamzee after that initial conevrsation she did not fucking reciprocate ( i dont care about your fanfic ! you arent fixing shit ! ) and even if she did she made it very clear she still didnt want that relationship because give her a fucking break man . if its gonna happen let her come back in a few sweeps when she has less shit to come to terms with and start it up on her terms thats fine . this is the best way of doing it for both of them . gamzee doesnt get to immediately get what it wants and tavros actually gets a fucking say in things . its not that hard to understand

even if it isnt as obvious with some artists its still There . gamzee is the main character focused on in the relationship because the artist just . really doesnt know enough about tavros to write about her further than ' gamzees [girl]friend who [vague traits about her that might not even be canon] ' . and they probably dont care .

they dont care that tavros should be more mean for her own good even if its just playful banter they dont care thered realistically be some conflict between the two if they were ever actually involved with eachothers lives to that extent they dont care that they characterize tavros the way shes expected to act by other characters and not how she actually does . they dont care that tavros is a character separate from the ship they have reduced her down to despite her having ONE ONSCREEN CONVERSATION with gamzee . two pesterlogs that make up one converaation . come on man

i was definitely being a little generalized with the whole ' you can ALWAYS tell super easy ' thing which i will admit i tend to do but really people who are weird about gamzee and dont care about tavros are just . very prominent in the fandom and there is an upsetting trend od how they porteay gamtav and how it spreads as if any of it is supported by canon .

theres not really a point to this i just really adore tavros shes my favourite ever and has been since her first pesterlog with dave ans it pisses me off to see how the fandom reduces her down to a horribly mischaracterized ship that is admittedly a huge comfort to me !! its upsetting !!