#it feels too connected to discourse anyway which is just frustrating to me
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re “most popular lannister in fandom” discussion lol i love cersei obv but im not particularly shocked at her not being as immensely popular as her brothers in book circles. not even just because of misogyny but the type of character that she is and her “likability”. nonetheless, there is a lot to say and discuss about her and her complexity anyway and id love to see that more over “girlboss delulu queen x100”. idrgaf about what others think but the only thing that kinda bugs me is when i see multiple ppl complain about tyrion specifically lacking the intrigue and discussion that sorrounds jaime sometimes (which is a gripe i entirely understand and resonate with, especially bc we can guess the types of things it could be rooted in; and there is a lot of material to discuss with him ofc) and then never discussing him or really mentioning him themselves either, especially centering him. like ye i write like 800 pages on jaime or whatever and not as much about the other two bc i find him the most compelling personally for whatever reason but lol thats just me. be the change u want to see, especially if u find him the most interesting personally
#like i think cersei isnt written as ‘likeable’ necessarily which i do love tho#it doesnt impact character writing quality but it does affect popularity 😭#to be fair the longest thing ive written is the aerys cersei thing whatever i think of what i said in that now lol#i disagree w some of it certainly but its painfully long im not touching it again lmao#it feels too connected to discourse anyway which is just frustrating to me#like if u invest time into discussing fandom pilled whatever over the actual book u r gonna end up with kinda dumb thoughts anyway#bc u r trying to argue with nonsense and talk with premises that r so out of left field in mind
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at the risk of sounding gatekeepy/transmed-y (which i assure i’m not, and it’s not my intention to be), as a queer older-teen who has been out in some capacity since i was about 10 years old, it can be… really really frustrating that almost all of the queer people that i’ve met at my school (and lots that i’ve met online, too) are people who 1 realized they were queer during the pandemic full stop, but also 2 realized they were queer during the pandemic and have only ever been out in a relatively sheltered, accepting environment (and i find the latter is extremely common).
and while i’m very glad and all that being queer is safer for lots of young people nowadays, it can feel very alienating when it’s so obvious that these other baby queers, though we are the same age, have so much less experience engaging with queerness itself in a thoughtful way & engaging with other queer people in a thoughtful way. they’re very flippant with their use of slurs despite having never been called them, they ask others about their sexuality/gender without thinking how that might be extremely anxiety inducing and invasive and uncomfortable for closeted people—even in a “safe space.” like, i still feel sick and anxious when i hear queer topics being talked about casually irl! sure, i’m recovering, slowly, but the violence i faced for being queer is still traumatizing- it doesn’t matter how safe the space is! and they just can’t comprehend that.
idk. while i’m happy that some people live in more accepting places than i did, it’s just so fucking frustrating that i can’t connect with anyone i know irl (with the exception of like… one person lol) over the collective trauma of growing up openly or closet-ly queer in a shitty middle school, because it isn’t something that’s commonly shared anymore, i guess. it’s getting harder and harder for me to find queer people in my age group who have actually been the target of queerphobic violence, whether that’s physical or emotional. and i can’t help but resent them for it.
anyway. this turned into a rant oops but i initially was sending this ask in response to the conversation about gen Z queers who are really into slurcourse and identity discourse and such, and like. i fully believe a big reason behind that is because since they don’t have real life experiences of oppression to look back on, it’s harder for them to see the bigger picture of queerphobia and how fucking dumb identity discourse is, because they’ve never directly experienced oppression that Actually Matters. like i think once you’ve been assaulted for being queer, you realize that discourse does not fucking matter. it’s a maturity and experience gap i think, regardless of age. so that’s my 2 cents as a gen Zer queer who grew up in the shitty midwest lol
yeah a lot of the people who are really into specifically online discourse like slur discourse and identity discourse usually haven't had much to deal with in their real lives. which like. i'm glad bc maybe that means shit's getting better even though it's scary now. but it's also frustrating as someone who has experienced a lot of irl discrimination.
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I’d go off anon but I’m too much of a chicken 😅. But I’m mainly referring to like the discourse and negativity in the community about TOTK. It’s like everyone is just finding anything and everything wrong and just pulling stuff out of nowhere to complain about at this point. And if you try to say ANYTHING positive than there’s always someone telling you how wrong you apparently are. Also the whole continuity discourse. IMO Zelda stories are excellent at keeping their respective games stories contained within themselves (if that even makes any sense), but the continuity between games is almost always nonexistent. There are some exceptions though. Like look at Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass and tell me how much those games actually connect. anyway I hope that even answers your question.
ahh, yeah. i know exactly what you mean. i think the negativity is just a vocal minority and most people really like the game. but it is frustrating.
as far as the continuity discourse goes, i dont think its really that difficult to grasp. i think most people who say it isnt consistent are people who were already unhappy with the direction of the story coming off botw and weren't paying attention as a result. it does an extremely good job of picking up where botw left off, and i definitely feel that even aoc helped set it up. as far as the continuity with the rest of the series goes, i subscribe to the refounding theory because it doesnt make sense otherwise and theres too much in-game evidence for me to see it as anything other than refounding. personally, i think the wild era trilogy is using refounding as a soft reset for the series without having to actually do a reset, setting everything so far in the future beyond any of the previous games that the cycle is starting over again, which i think is cool. we'll have to see what the next game does to be sure though.
i dont really think zelda as a series is actually inconsistent across the board, there's noticeable arcs in the storytelling across games. if it feels inconsistent, i think its mostly on the fault of the localization team taking liberties. for example, sonia being referring to as part of the hyrule clan in the japanese text but i dont think she ever was in english, which implies a hyrule family once existed in hyrule before rauru came along (aka refounding evidence). stuff like that not carrying over to the wider international audience is part of why these discourses happen, i think. also a lot of zelda lore is intentionally left up for fan interpretation and i think a lot of fans are wanting actual concrete stuff and dont wanna have to think about it themselves. this leads to people calling the lore lazy or inconsistent just because its not explicitly laid out for them.
i dont really take issue with the way zelda's lore is handled, honestly. as long as the games are fun to play, that's a lot more important to me. despite all of this rambling, im 100% a "gameplay before story" kind of guy, lol. but its still fun to think about.
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hello! your zutara posting today has finally motivated me to ask this question because I came to atla very late(last year, to be specific) and I Love It Very Much but am 1000% out of the loop as far as why what remains of fandom (at least that I've seen among my friends) is so very strongly zutara. I'm not opposed to it per se I just don't really know what has driven it to apparently be such a popular ship? can you help me understand and maybe convert me a little bit?
Hey!! Your ICON! :D I can try but I’m not sure how coherent I’ll be; however I AM sure someone a lot more competent will be willing to add to this. Either way, I’m glad you asked because my plan was to drag down as many people as possible with me.
*smacks the hood of zutara* this baby can fit so much mutual love and support!
This got so long, I’m so sorry. I don’t know how to put it under a cut on mobile and it already got deleted once so I’m scared to mess with it lol. Moving on.
I’m gonna start this with a disclaimer that im on mobile so formatting is tricky and I’m also really new to atla in that I only completed my first watch through in like 2019??? So some of my info is all just based on what I’ve picked up from Discourse 👀 so anyway the sparknotes version: zutara was wildly popular from the beginning. To the point where the atla crew internally disagreed on which ship should be endgame. (Ex. Bryke [showrunners] asked the writers to rewrite The Southern Raiders to make Zuko seem less ideal for Katara than Aang [which failed, depending on who you ask]; the animation team purposefully created a visual parrallel between Oma and Shu in the Cave of Two Lovers and Zuko and Katara in the catacombs under Ba Sing Se in the Crossroads of Destiny; etc.)
The ship was popular enough that Bryke actually chose to display zk fanart at a con for the sole purpose of mocking the fans, but that’s neither here nor there. The entire episode Ember Island Players, while a love letter to/parody of the whole show, was an opportunity to address zutara’s viability as a canon pairing (while, again, mocking zutaras for romanticizing that catacombs scene). Point is! It’s always been popular but with it not being endgame, there’s got to be something that’s given it staying power.
And that’s honestly got to do with three things: their dynamic, thematic cohesion, and potential.
(You know what... you know what, it’s four things. The fourth is they’re so aesthetically pleasing together and individually. Like, they’re just good looking people [specifically when they’re grown but they’re also cute kids] and that absolutely doesn’t hurt) (but it’s not the Point, it’s just nice to point out sometimes)
The dynamic is hard to get into without also looking at the canon pairings, but I think I can do that without unnecessary bashing. It’s just that part of the magic of zutara is really highlighted by what they give to each other that their other relationships don’t.
First off, it’s classic enemies to (would be) lovers. The absolute truest form of it. It’s not too different from how CS started out: a rogue antagonist with a job to do—but no personal vendetta against the future love interest—who is deeply and emotionally invested in his personal storyline (revenge/redemption) with little regard for how it effects other people after his entire life and genuine good nature are marred by suffering, and a fierce warrior girl with a strong moral compass and her own personal investment in stopping him (protect her family and save the world doing it). Obviously frustration and animosity grew between them by the nature of them being on opposing sides, but that just lends itself to the sweetness of their later reconciliation.
The thing is that while they’re wildly different on the surface (he’s a hot-headed prince of a fascist regime who is trying to capture the Avatar to please his father; she’s a nurturing daughter of the chief who is trying to protect and train the Avatar in order to topple his father’s throne) they find out that they have so much more in common both in their experiences and their personalities.
(What follows is an excessive use of the word “both” and I’m sorry about that)(I can edit it. I can do that. That IS an option............)
They both have an innate sense of justice that they are determined to see done (zuko, at the war meeting, sticking up for the Earth Kingdom kid when the guards torment his family, choosing not to steal from the pregnant couple despite his circumstances, abiding by his word to leave the SWT should Aang come willingly, etc.; katara, literally.... at any point). They both have pretty one-track minds at accomplishing certain goals once they’ve put their mind to it, regardless of a lack of support in that endeavor (it goes without saying I guess, but zuko’s entire hunt; katara’s determination to get the earth benders to fight back, her determination to absolutely destroy Pakku until he agrees to teach her, etc.). They both lost their mothers at young ages. Their worlds are war-torn and traumatizing to them both, if in different ways, but that ultimately forces them to grow up too quickly to be wholly independent individuals. They both have issues with their fathers (for WILDLY different reasons, but). They both hold extreme prejudices that they need to learn to overcome (which ties into thematic cohesion)(bit like Lizzie and Darcy in that way but magnified by a million). They’re both extremely emotional and empathetic—which can and often does result in loud outbursts. Katara’s a bit better adjusted and can temper her anger for longer than S1 Zuko can, but they both feel that anger deeply and have no compunctions expressing it (Katara is, usually, more justified, particularly in S1. Again, S1 Zuko is severely maladjusted but at the point when they could’ve feasibly become a couple, he’s so much better off with the way he carries himself). They both struggle with feelings of inferiority in their bending abilities when confronted with prodigal benders like Aang and Azula, but have the work ethic required to double down and become two of the most powerful benders in the three remaining nations. This is a little more minor but it is a parrallel that appeals to some shippers that they both have these alter egos in the Painted Lady (notably fire nation coded) and the Blue Spirit (water tribe coded) that are pretty different from who they are day-to-day and are useful in accomplishing a purpose that they as themselves cannot.
(I’m.... I just realized that this could potentially get very long. Should I have made a slide show with bullet points??????)
Anyway, similar. I know there’s more but there’s literally so much to love about zutara that I’ll drive myself a little crazy trying to compile all the ways they’re similar. (Just gonna say that at this exact moment I went back to add more similarities.... so okay then)
Once they’ve reconciled, we see how all of these things only lend themselves to a deeper intimacy together than they share with literally anyone else. There’s a steady partnership that positions them as the mom/dad of the gaang, while also providing the support necessary to allow the other to not have to carry so much responsibility. A lot of zutaras will point out how zuko is actually depicted doing the more domestic chores that are normally relegated to Katara once he joins the gaang, since the others in the group are two 12-year-olds and sokka. The one that sticks out the most is how he makes tea for the group and then serves them, while Katara is able to just relax with her friends around the fire. Fanon expands upon this a lot to Zuko helping with the laundry or the cooking or whatever else needs doing since he, as a once-refugee, is used to doing his own domestic tasks. Before Zuko joined, Katara was the one mothering everyone, sewing for them, cooking for them, etc. She’s always tending to the needs of the group, and that includes emotionally. She does the emotional labor for the gaang 99% of the time, but when she’s the one falling apart, she’s usually doing it alone and without the comfort that she normally provides for others. Until Zuko. And that’s before they’re even friends.
Which is WHY people romanticize the catacombs of Ba Sing Se so much. Katara is verbally attacking Zuko out of her own righteous anger but also her own prejudice when Zuko, surprisingly, chooses to be vulnerable with her. He’s been on a journey that’s opened his eyes a bit, but he’s never actively chosen to expose the rawest parts of his past to anyone. But for some reason he chooses to do that with Katara of all people. While she’s yelling at him. He sees her humanity, and for once can look past his prejudice and empathize with her. And this time, when she breaks down, she gets to be comforted. Katara normally talks about her mother when she’s trying to explain to someone else that she sees and understands they’re pain, as a form of comfort to them. Here, Zuko uses the exact same tactic. He sees her and he understands. And for zuko? He’s not being shut down. He’s allowed to articulate his pain regarding his mother without being ignored and made to internalize it, and he’s allowed to process how he feels about his scar out loud without being told that he deserved it. And then he lets her touch his scar, something we’ve seen him actively avoid before. He’s completely open to her and she’s completely open to him and all it took was one five minute conversation. She was about to use the little bit of Spirit water that she had, that she was saving for something Important, to heal the scar that still daily causes him pain just because they had, somehow, connected.
Plus there’s the whole parallel to the star-crossed lovers forbidden from one another, a war divides their people—
And then zuko messes up, he regresses, he gets what he wants and he HATES it. And the sense of justice he had as a child has been restored to him against his will and he can’t think of anything he wants to do more than the Right Thing, so he joins team avatar. Before he does that though, we get to see his relationship with Mai, which is where comparison really comes in. And what we see is Zuko, fresh off of his encounter with Katara in the catacombs, trying to be emotionally honest with Mai... and getting shut down and dismissed. Which is just how Mai is and it’s fine, but not for Zuko. Still, he keeps trying, and he keeps getting ignored or scoffed at or yelled at. Which is really a larger symbol for how he doesn’t fit in his old life anymore, but again that’s about thematic cohesion. He tries to articulate his anxieties about returning home, he tries to make romantic gestures, he tries to explain how morally conflicted he’s feeling—and Mai diverts to some kind of physical affection to shut him up and a parting comment that is pretty much always, in essence, “I don’t wanna talk about this.” So they don’t. On the other hand, once zuko and Katara are friends, we see him again emotionally distraught and caught up in his anxieties about facing Iroh, and it’s Katara who comes to him and listens to him and comforts and encourages him.
Similarly, we have Aang clamming up and getting uncomfortable whenever Katara shows any negative emotion, usually resulting in him making excuses or running away. Or, in the case of the Southern Raiders, lecturing her on how she needs to just let go of her anger about her mother’s murder. People have talked this episode to death and usually better than I ever could, so imma... keep it brief. There’s a serious disconnect between Aang and Katara in his ability to empathize with Katara and her needs that has her tamping down her vulnerability and amping up her anger. He tells her that he was able to forgive his people’s genocide and appa’s kidnapping (petnapping? Theft??), which is blatantly not true but also not an entirely equal parrallel to Katara’s situation, and continues making these little remarks throughout the episode. But it’s Zuko that Katara opens up to. It’s with him that she’s able to talk about the most traumatic day of her life, and it’s with him that she’s able to get the closure she needs, cementing their bond as friends and partners. This disagreement between Aang and Katara is then... never resolved. They just never bring it up and hear what the other is saying.
There’s a fic called The Portraits of Ember Island that has a line that so completely sums up the heart of the matter for why people love their dynamic. For context, zuko has woken up early to help Katara with the cooking and they spend the whole time just letting one another talk, and zuko stops to ask why she always just lets him talk. And so she stops to ask why he’s always helping, and it goes as follows:
There’s just... so much mutual support! Trust! Intimacy!! And it just continues like that from the Southern Raiders on, listening to each other, advising each other, watching each other’s backs! And then! Literally saving each other’s lives!! I will never be over the last Agni kai. Not ever. Zuko may have been willing to jump in front of lightning for anyone, but he actually did it for Katara. And in a show, that’s the thing that really matters. It’s a fulfilled trope usually exclusively applied to romantic pairings, and it ended up applying to Zuko and Katara. And then she ran out into the middle of a fight with tunnel vision just to get to him.
Also!! Also Zuko pushing Katara out of the way of the falling rocks at the Western Air Temple!! And Katara catching him as he fell from the war balloon that he fought Azula on!! Before they’re even getting along, they’re the ones reaching for each other. They come to this place of equal ground, as partners, who watch each other’s backs, call each other out but still listen attentively and understand, and provide the support that the other has been sorely lacking up until they knew each other (whether that be from lack of effort or lack of understanding from others, or an unwillingness to accept it for themselves).
Then, trailing along under the surface of this, we see the themes of the show totally embodied by Zuko and Katara as individuals and in their relationship to one another. There’s a YouTuber, sneezyreviews, who has a, like, 2-hour explanation on why she not only loves zutara but also believes that their endgame would’ve actually elevated the writing of atla to new levels particularly because of thematic cohesion and resolved character arcs. It’s the zutara dissertation I never knew I needed, and it’s funny and eloquent and effective, so I’m just going to sum up her section on thematic cohesion to the best of my abilities and then link it for whenever you have the time. And I HIGHLY recommend it, especially if you want a full understanding of what makes zutara so great and gives it such longevity.
Guru pathik has a line that goes something like this: separation is an illusion; things that seem different are just two parts of the same whole. Iroh also tells Zuko something similar: balance and strength are achieved when the different nations come together and influence one another and celebrate what makes them each unique. And this lesson is a massive central arc that both Zuko and Katara go through, moving past a black-and-white, good guys-vs-bad guys, us-vs-them mentality and into a greyer, more nuanced view of the world. Zuko sees the fire nation from an entirely new perspective and while he still loves and hopes for his nations future, he surrenders his blind loyalty to them in exchange for an unflinching loyalty to peace and love. Katara too had to come to terms with the fact that cruel people exist in the earth kingdom and water tribes, while some fire nation citizens are just regular, kind people who also need and deserve to have someone speak on their behalf. And this is honed in directly on how they view each other. They grow in their individual journeys to be open to the humanity in the other and then, once they’ve found that, they’re able to grow more in compassion for others in a beautiful feedback loop. And this is all matched in the symbolism repeatedly and intentionally associated with them in canon: sun and moon, fire and water, yin and yang, Oma and Shu who found love despite their warring nations. Their individual arcs are completed in each other and complement the themes of atla beautifully.
The canon pairs... just don’t. Which, again, is fine. But the very things that give atla longevity and popularity are anchored in zutara. Kat@ang doesn’t accomplish this. They’re... nice. Sweet. Especially when you erase a good portion of their interactions in S3. It could’ve been just a sweet love story. (Personally, the dynamic between toph and aang accomplish the same thing that zutara does, with complementary personalities that fulfill the theme of opposites blending in harmony) M@iko, on the other hand, is less sweet but I think wasn’t even supposed to last. Zuko’s relationship with Mai seems to represent his relationship with his old life as a whole. He can’t be emotionally vulnerable, he’s goaded into abusing his privileges, his agency and opinions aren’t respected. They just don’t have common ground with which to discuss anything that matters, so they don’t. As far as themes, the relationship doesn’t fit with atla. It’s zuko returning to and sticking with what is (on the surface) like him, what’s expected. Fire nation with fire nation. Fluid water bender with the flexible air bender. Like with like, separated from what is different and challenging and complementary.
And all of these things combined of course lead to the potential for the ship. I don’t know how familiar you are with the post-atla canon but... well, miss “I will never turn my back on people who need me”, miss “I don’t want to heal! I want to fight!” ends up living quietly in the SWT as a designated healer who turns a blind eye to the water tribe civil war happening right outside her front door. Which can be fine! People change! Some people just wanna stay inside. I just wanna stay inside! But the potential future for zutara is so much more satisfying, with Katara becoming the most unconventional Fire Lady the uppity old cads who are stuck on the old ways have ever seen. Fanon has her serving as a voice for the other nations within a kingdom at the point of its biggest political upheaval, as a confidante to Zuko who can actually help him while he’s trying to figure out how to move forward and make reparations. They have the opportunity, together, to accomplish what they both have set on their hearts to fight for: positive change that lends itself to harmony and balance. And the steambabies! A popular headcanon is that their firstborn daughter, the crown princess, is actually a waterbender, which causes such an uproar among the people who are adamantly clinging to the old ways. It’s just a future full of potential to be forces for good together, full of trust, intimacy, joy. The exact era of peace and love and balance that zuko announces that he intends to ring in with the start of his reign as Fire Lord is, again, magnified by the very personal zutara relationship. And we love to see it.
tl;dr zutara isn’t for everyone. Some people just don’t vibe with it. Some are nostalgic. Some love the canon they grew up with. Some have been disappointed for years. Some just see themselves in other characters and want their happiness instead. Whatever the reason, that’s fine. But for me, I love the way these two, from the moment they give each other a fair chance, are able to lower their walls and prejudices to see the other for the kindred spirits they are. They see each other’s humanity, and their response is to pour out love and support and compassion. I love that they’re a power couple in battle. I love the symbolism and, honestly, soulmatism that colors their every interaction. I love that they embody the whole storyline of atla in their relationship and how it develops, which is notably why their seasonal arcs always culminate in each finale with how they relate to one another. I love that zuko adopting a waterbending move is what actually saves his life and then katara’s. I love the chemistry! And I love the future they could’ve had, instead of the ones they were given.
So, in conclusion: I just think they’re neat and I hope you do too, at least a little bit. Even if it’s just respectfully from a disinterested distance cause you do you. And now here is the video I mentioned. I’m sorry this post got so long and then I gave you an even longer homework assignment, but I can’t recommend it enough. She says it all better than I can.
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#zutara#atla#zutara rant#like really the way the canon relationships were written throughout s3#it would’ve been more believable for zutara to happen#or at least be hinted at#all of the major issues presented in those relationship were dug up extensively and then... never resolved#and then they just slapped some kisses on a screen and said ‘there all better’#and we just kinda had to say ‘oh ok guess it’s all better then’#this got long I’m sorry#I wrote it all out and then tumblr ate 2/3 of it#which is why it took so long#and what I’ve written now doesn’t even match what I had before#because there’s too much to say about why I love zutara#and the stuff I left out the first time is what came out this time#rip to my original thoughts but this post is different#anyway that’s why this took so long#and I should’ve just made a PowerPoint...#I can do that too if you’d rather not read all of this lol#I won’t be offended#this is incoherent#Alia rambles uselessly#also hoping this doesn’t end up in any wrong tags because I don’t wanna step on toes lol#it’s not anti!! it’s just critical#in a compare/contrast way#I can pinpoint the moment when I started trying to rewrite my points from memory#because everything gets shorter and more succinct#like... I really said all that??? sounds fake and I don’t remember it anyway so here’s the condensed version#with no!! smooth!!! transitions!!!!#also why am I so lazy with proper grammar over text
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On the other hand, and moving away from direct Mechanisms Discourse (which I prefer to not get over involved in tbh but also this ISN'T about that it's just jumping off it) - it absolutely is deeply classist to assume that somebody is illiterate or ignorant because of poverty/assumed poverty, and that's a huge problem. but also I think on a broader social level (at least in the UK) there is an idea in the left that it's classist to acknowledge the connection between poverty and illiteracy, while the truth is that illiteracy is a problem of poverty (poverty not in the sense of just Not Having Money but in the sense of system denial of adequate resources). Poverty doesn't = illiteracy but illiteracy is very much a problem of poverty - not a failure of a marginalised individual but a failure of the system marginalising them.
Adult illiteracy is a surprisingly large issue in eg both rural and urban Scotland, but it's not because poor people are stupid, ignorant or unwilling to learn - it's because schools are inadequate or inaccessible, classes are managed not taught, teachers are stretched thin and schools are underfunded so don't have resources to help struggling students, if you get to secondary school still unable to read and write you're completely locked out of the educational system unless you can access a school with the resources to teach you individually, and because of this, classism and a lack of support, poorer kids are more likely to switch off school as early as possible.
Social geography is also a big issue. In urban areas, schools in poorer areas get bad reputations, so they're underfunded, so they do worse, so they're funded less, etc, until they're a bare minimum of staff just trying to get through the day in collapsing buildings with no resources and five textbooks. Where better-funded schools can afford teaching assistants, 1:1 support for struggling students, decent food provision for kids, follow-up on children in need of support at home, more teachers for smaller classes, maybe counseling and psychological support, maybe Special Educational Needs classes for older kids to work on basic literacy and numeracy to catch up, worse-funded schools have one underpaid unsupported teacher trying to manage a class of 35 kids with wildly different needs. They don't have the resources to help support kids with issues that might affect their schooling, like parental abuse or neglect, trauma, a parent in prison, care responsibilities, hunger, homelessness, neurodiversities that affect their ability to learn in the prescribed way, learning disabilities like dyslexia, physical health issues including visual or auditory impairments...all things that when supported are highly surmountable but when unsupported often end up with children being perceived and treated as stupid, disruptive or evil. The problem then compounds itself because the kids are badly treated which makes them more disruptive and less able to learn, and more and more work is needed to help them which teachers continue to not have any capacity or resources for.
Rural poverty comes with its own schooling issues as well, in that poverty is generally correlated with remoteness. Poor rural communities are often hours away from population centres, so either you have tiny highly local schools serving a handful of families where a single teacher needs to invent lesson plans that somehow balance the needs of 11 year olds and 4 year olds of all abilities, or your kids need to somehow get into town every morning before you get to work, which may mean dropping them off at 6am, having to part pay for buses, taxis or ferries, sending them on their own, or leaving them with friends and family, and realistically the way that often shakes down is that they don't go. You teach them at home, and they may not even exist for the truancy office to know about.
Literacy is also connected to family culture. Both my parents were people with degrees from educated families, and my mum was a full time parent, and the result is that school didn't teach me to read - I was already a confident and enthusiastic reader. Even richer families may hire tutors for small children, pay for extracurricular learning, etc. The poorer a family is, the more likely neither parent is available to spend time reading with their kids, because they're working full time - at that economic level a single income household is almost entirely unviable so either both parents work or there's a single parent working extra hours or they're just exhausted from worrying about the bills and what's sold to them as a personal failure to look after their family.
One thing it's easy to forget is that while people in the UK still do drop out of school in their teens to work, a generation ago it was almost the norm for a lot of communities (especially the children of farmers, miners and factory workers) to have left school well before the end of compulsory education, both because of school being a hostile space and because of the need for an additional income. Now as well as then, a lot of kids drop out to work as unpaid carers, disproportionately in poorer families that can't afford private care or therapeutic support. Literacy aside, generations of leaving school with no qualifications doesn't tend to teach you that formal learning is as important as experience and vocational learning, and you don't expect to finish anyway so why put yourself through misery trying to do well? But it includes literacy. I grew up in a former mining area and a lot of people my dad's age and older were literate enough to read signs and football results, but took adult classes in middle age or later to get past the pointing finger and moving lips. and if you're parents don't or can't read, it's a lot harder for you to learn.
There's a lot of classism and shame tied up in the roots of illiteracy. Teachers and governments and schoolmates will often have vocally expressed low expectations of poorer students; a rich child who does poorly at school has problems, a poor child who does poorly at school is a problem child. They're often treated with hostility and aggression from infancy and any anger or disinterest in school is often treated not as a problem to be solved but as proof that you were right to deem them a write-off. Poorer or more neglected children (or children for whom English is a second language) will often be deemed "stupid" by their peers, and start at a disadvantage because of the issues around early childhood learning in families where parents are overstretched.
Kids learn not to admit that they don't know or understand something, because if you start school unable to read and write and do basic maths when a lot of kids your age are already confident, you get mocked and called stupid and lazy by your peers, and treated with frustration by your teachers. So kids learn to avoid people noticing that they need help. That means that school, which could help a lot, isn't somewhere you can go for help but a source of huge anxiety and pain - more so when you factor in the background radiation of classism that only grows as you get older around not having the right clothes, the right toys, the right experiences, my mum says your mum's a ragger, my mum says I shouldn't hang out with you because you're a bad lot - so again kids switch off very early and see education as something to survive not something helpful.
The same is very much true of adult literacy. A lot of adults are very shamed and embarrassed to admit that they struggle with reading and writing - a lot of parents particularly want to be able to teach their kids to read, but aren't confident readers themselves, and feel too stupid and embarrassed to admit out loud that they can't read well, let alone to seek out and endure adult literacy classes that are a constant reminder of their perceived failure and ignorance (and can also be excruciating. Books for adult literacy learning are not nearly widespread enough and a lot of intelligent experienced adults are subjected to reading Spot the Dog and similar books targeted at small children's interests). Adult literacy classes also cost time and also money, so a lot of people only have the space for them after retirement, if at all.
And increasingly, illiteracy (or lack of fluency in English) increases poverty and marginalisation, and thus the chances of inherited literacy problems. Reading information, filling out forms and accessing the internet in a meaningful way are all massively limited by illiteracy, and you need those skills to access welfare, to access medical care, to avoid exploitative loans, to deal with any service providers, etc. Most jobs above minimum wage and a lot below require a fairly high level of literacy, whether it's office work or reading an instructional memo on a building site or reading drink instructions in McDonalds. Illiteracy is a huge barrier between somebody and the rest of the world, especially in a modern world that just assumes universal literacy, and especially especially as more and more of life involves the internet, texting, WhatsApp, email, and so on - it's becoming harder and harder for people with limited literacy to be fully involved in society. And that means the only mobility is downwards, and that exacerbates all the problems that lead to adult illiteracy.
People who can't read after the age of 6 or so are treated as stupid. People who can't read fluently when they're adults are seen as stupid and almost subhuman. There's so much shame and personal judgement attached to difficulty reading, but the fact that illiteracy is almost exclusively linked to poverty and deprivation is pretty conclusive. Illiteracy isn't about the failure or stupidity of the individual, it's about the lack of support, care and respect afforded to poor people at all stages of their life. Being illiterate doesn't make you stupid - many people are highly intelligent, creative, capable, thoughtful, and illiterate. I know people who can immediately solve complex engineering problems on the fly but take ten minutes to write down a sentence of instruction. It isn't classist to say that illiteracy is caused by poverty - it's both classist and inaccurate to say that illiteracy says anything about the worth, intelligence or personhood of the poor, that it's a result of a desire to be ignorant, or that it's evidence that people are poor because they're stupid, incapable, ignorant or bad parents. The link between poverty and illiteracy is the problem of classism and bigotry, no more no less, and we deal with it by working against the ideas that both poverty and lack of education are a reflection of individual worth.
Illiteracy isn't a problem of intelligence, it's a problem of education, and that matters because education is not inherent. it's something that has to be provided and maintained by parents, by the state, by the community. you're not born educated. you are educated. except more than a quarter of the Scottish population isn't educated, because the system doesn't give a fuck about them and actively excludes them or accidentally leaves them behind.
#idl why i wrote this I'm just very angry about how we as a culture treat adult illiteracy in the uk#which is to say - we don't#we ignore it and think about it as a problem of the past or of other countries#and if we do encounter it we treat illiterate people as uniquely stupid and ignorant#as if it's a personal not systemic problem#26.7% of people in Scotland are either illiterate or have severe issues with literacy#16.4% in the uk as a whole#it's this invisible symptom of deprivation that nobody fucking talks about#less than half of people in prison have basic literacy and numeracy skills#and that's not because only stupid people end up in prison it's because illiteracy is a symptom of the poverty pipeline#and i don't think there's current data on this but I'd guess we're going to see an ongoing dip in literacy rates#correlated with austerity from 2010 on#because child poverty and child hunger in this country has consistently steeply climbed since then#and you don't. learn well. when you're hungry.#and also i anticipate a drop in literacy associated with Covid. it's two years where kids without existing literacy skills#parents who are home and consistent internet access have really been unable to engage with a lot of classes#and teachers have been even less able to offer meaningful personalised support#and two years is SO LONG in early years. being set back two years compared to other students can affect your education your whole life.
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I know y’all didn’t come here for me bitching about the writing decisions of fucking Until Dawn and The Quarry but like I’m in such a. clenching counter staring at a wall. Literally putting characters in a horror setting has the potential to develop them SO WELL because you’re putting them with active interaction with stimuli that creates fear and distrust and frustration. which can help develop a character so much because those kinds of emotions have so much NUANCE-- How does X character respond to frustration? How does X character express fear? What happens when the distrust between A and B creates? How strong was their pre-existing relationship for it? How much does that impact them?
Like. Okay. Ashley from Until Dawn. I’m forever mad about her because they had so much fucking opportunity to characterize her as being resentful and cowardly but they DIDN’T STICK TO IT. Like Ashley getting angry at Chris depending on a decision he made earlier on that SHE ENCOURAGED is already frustrating but it’s so much more that when we don’t see that being how she is as a character. It’s literally just done for the convenience of that setting up a character death and showing the butterfly effect but it doesn’t make sense.
And that’s the whole issue is that it feels like every character is made to act in certain ways that would set up deaths and plot points without paying mind to what they’re actually like as character beyond this vague archetype. I literally could not tell you one THING about Mike’s character because the entire thing with Mike is that he like progresses plot a hell of a lot. But does he care about his friends? Is he a harsh asshole? He and Sam exist to just Get Shit Done but it doesn’t. It. Fuuuuuck meeeee dude.
Also Jessica just never gets character development because she’s inside the mines half the time so she enters there the Damsel in Distress and LEAVES the Damsel in Distress. The feminine flirt who is helplessly dependent on everyone else to get anything done for her awesomeeeeeee (My therapist has heard too much about Jessica from Until Dawn can you tell?)
Also Emily has like no character development by the end depending on Matt’s survival? Because she might just be like nah FUCK him anyway I hope he dies and it’s like. Emily is arguably to me one of the strongest characters but then some things happen and it’s like okay but she went nowhere. She entered hating half the characters and she LEFT hating half the characters. Entered playing the victim and left playing the victim. Where does this go.
Static characters are SO GOOD when you have them mixed with dynamic characters. When their mindsets and changes CLASH with each other. Y’all are DSMP-ers that’s why- nevermind I’m not getting into DSMP character discourse over this post I’ll save my thoughts on THAT for a rainy day.
Point is static characters work but like it doesn’t when there’s maybe one character that changes and everyone else. Doesn’t. It’s hard to RELATE to anyone in Until Dawn because all of them do illogical shit! And the problem is it’s not like oh they’re teens it’s illogical it’s like ILLOGICAL illogical. Inconsistent! No fucking teenager leaves someone to die in front of their eyes because they’re upset over something that didn’t even happen earlier when that’s NOT the way that teenager has EVER responded to anything! It’s just. You can’t CONNECT with them. Because they’re all so badly written.
I need water. Or just to keep watching The Quarry and hope I get proven wrong.
#nightmare.personal#long post#Jessica and Ashley make me the most upset. Ashley's just the shittiest written one imo and Jessica is like.#They made her such an archetype of the flirty air-headed blond with no agency. And then never gave her any agency.#Compare Jessica to like. Sam. Even if you don't SYMPATHIZE with Jessica because she's an asshole#It's like. Godddd. Also the fact that her story ends with Matt who also kind of got fucked over by the story I just. Yeah.
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i saw a few posts of yours answering the common questions a lot of ppl have and its the “are tianshan a toxic couple” and i love your responses and how you say “we should take a step back to see the real picture” basically. after reading 19days twice, i’ve come to understand A LOT about our 4 boys. its that they all carry emotional baggage and trauma. and they all suffer with it through out the chapters, slowly overcoming it as the story progresses. what we have to understand as readers is that we can’t have a happy ending just yet- it’s not realistic. OX has written this story in a very clear, realistic way. with that, we have moments in the beginning of tianshans relationship where mo comes off as very annoyed or mad when tian appears. but slowly, he gets used to tian being his friend and even allows tian to see his moments of vulnerability (i.e., breaking down, explaining his child hood trauma, etc) which btw is a HUGE THING? mo literally clinging onto tian like that is a HUGE moment of vulnerability..you can even say its out of character but really its just mo opening up and allowing tian to understand him. another thing a lot of ppl assume that mo “hates” tian..which i guess is shown in the beginning moments of their first encounter but he really just struggles to accept and understand his feelings for tian. which is why he reacts the way he does sometimes when he’s flustered or nervous. (1) we can see this with the whole studs incident and how mo himself eventually came to realize he wants to wear them when HE wants. this is a huge thing again because he wants to show tian basically that he’s not wearing it for the heck of it- he’ll wear it comfortably when he wants to for HIMSELF! another thing is that moments of danger really bring out mo’s TRUE feelings for tian. (1) we can see this in the chapter special where tian pushes mo out of the way and saves him in the forest when its raining. (2) when tian sends mo a pic of his arm “bleeding” and mo LITERALLY drops everything to go to him. in these moments, mo really acts like tian is the only one that matters; he disregards everything and everyone because he cares so much about this one person. in my opinion, i do believe that mo will come to realize and accept these feelings for tian. like come on...we have gotten SO much character development. his current and past feelings for tian can be seen as him struggling to understand his feelings (trying to understand if they are feelings for a friend vs. feelings for a lover). his intimate moments with tian are always showing his frustration.
the flashbacks are coming to an end and im so sure that we’ll get to see how mo and tian dealt with being away from each other, what tian was doing the entire time he was away, etc. anyways it just makes me kinda sad when people assume that mo is heartless or that tianshan is toxic and blah blah...because like DUDE, these are real things people go through. it takes SO much courage to accept your feelings for someone. we cant just expect mo and tian to sort everything out in like 1 chapter. all of this was rambling and idek if i make sense but what do you think? do you agree/disagree? also sorry if i come off as rude it was not my intention at all T^T i really your analysis and wanted to share mine about momo with you too :D
Hello, dear anon!
Oh, please, your message wasn't rude at all! I loved reading your thoughts, thank you for taking the time to type me all this!
Your ask touches on a lot of topics I’ve talked about before, so here is a list of my previous answers that I think are relevant:
Did MGS hate HT in the beginning?
About MGS and SL’s development
Do I think Tianshan is toxic?
Do I think Tianshan is toxic vol. 2
My Tianshan “timeline”
My Tianshan “timeline” continued
Will MGS’s attitude towards HT ever change?
Will MGS’s attitude towards HT ever change, vol. 2?
You might want to check some of those out if you’re interested. But I’ll most probably end up repeating some things anyway.
““are tianshan a toxic couple” and i love your responses”
Thank you! I have to admit those were probably the hardest questions I had gotten so far. As a Tianshan OTP shipper, I understand that I’m easily biased. And as someone who often ships the problematic pairings, the whole “it’s toxic” discourse can get...tiring.
Anyway, the point I was trying to make was that I feel like often when people complain some ship/character is toxic, they erase the context of those things. I understand that context doesn't excuse any type of behavior but it explains it more often than not. To me, context is about taking that step back and seeing the bigger picture/overall development.
Also, I think “toxic” is a surprisingly subjective term and people have very different levels of tolerance for it. If someone sees Tianshan as toxic, I think their take is valid. It’s perfectly fine if the ship is too much for them. But I also like to remind people that this is fiction we are talking about. In fiction, things are often exaggerated. Also, fiction is a safe place to explore different things and enjoy whatever scratches your itch. No one is getting hurt. So, if something isn’t to your taste, that’s fine! If you want to have a discussion about those differences, awesome! Just don’t go around judging people for liking something in fiction.
“a lot of ppl assume that mo “hates” tian / he really just struggles to accept and understand his feelings for tian“
I think this has mostly to do with MGS being a very tsundere character. His first answer is always “no”, “shut up”, “go away”, etc. But deep down, he does care and doesn't actually hate as much as he lets people (mis)understand. Tsundere characters can be frustrating, and I get it if they annoy some people. But it’s important to recognize them, so you won’t let their “tsun” side fool you.
To me, a lot of MGS’s anger and aggression is also about his general distrust of people. In the beginning, he was hostile towards HT because to him, HT was ultimately the same as SL (ch. 138, 150, 155):
MGS didn't understand HT’s interest in him. He didn't trust HT’s kind of people with money and influence. He had had bad experiences with SL taking advantage of him, and he wasn't about to let HT do the same. His guard was high, and the best way to protect himself was being aggressive. (This didn't apply to HT only but everyone who tried to interact with MGS.)
A lot of that early behavior makes more sense if you take a step back and look at the overall development of Tianshan and MGS. On the surface, it easily looked like MGS hated HT in the beginning when it would be more accurate to say he hated people like HT.
You suggested that MGS is struggling to accept and understand his feelings for HT, and I would agree. I’m not sure if I would go as far as saying his feelings for HT are exactly romantic just yet, but I’m sure his relationship with HT is something that MGS can’t quite figure out. He’s not only learning to trust HT but also no doubt noticing that he might - god forbid - actually care about HT. That’s a lot of “figuring out” if you consider what HT ultimately represented to MGS in the beginning and how defensive MGS was towards everyone.
Overall, I would say that MGS is “bothered” by HT. In a good way. He can’t really understand HT or their relationship but HT “bothers” him by being persistent and poking at topics that MGS isn’t really familiar with (for example, romance). The change in him that HT is ultimately the driving force for is “bothering” him which I think is something quite human and relatable. It’s the confusion and uncertainty that keeps bugging us all before we figure something out.
“but slowly, he gets used to tian being his friend and even allows tian to see his moments of vulnerability“
One of the biggest themes in Tianshan is definitely trust. This is very much connected to your earlier point, but I wanted to take a separate look at this. I would even go as far as saying trust is at the core of everything you’re saying.
As I said, in the beginning it looked like MGS hated HT when he, in truth, didn’t just trust him. But once again if you take a step back, you can see the overall development (ch. 130, 144, 160, 188, 282, 283, 318, 346 [the last one is translated by @1154lizz 🖤]):
MGS had learned to be suspicious of people and to believe that no one was looking out for him. No one would be on his side. No one would believe he didn't do it. No one would defend him, let alone demand justice for him. I believe a lot changed in Tianshan when MGS realized HT would be in his corner and fight for him.
After that MGS began to gradually open up about things (SL piercing his ears, his past with SL). With that development, MGS not only let HT closer but also gave HT more control over him. He allowed HT to occupy him in ways that SL had used to abuse him: the earrings and his past. Those had been ways for SL to own and control MGS, but with HT they were about trust and protection.
Lately, it seems like MGS is allowing HT to coax his dreams and pursuing them. No matter what MGS wants to do, HT will support him. He believes in MGS. That takes trust as well because dreams can be a surprisingly vulnerable topic. Especially if you’re someone like MGS who hasn’t had that kind of support and faith for various reasons.
So yes, I would say the ever-growing trust between Tianshan has changed the relationship. MGS has gone from hostile “I don’t know what you want with me but whatever it is I won’t let you” to more positively flustered tsundere-like aggression.
“another thing is that moments of danger really bring out mo’s TRUE feelings for tian“
Yes, I definitely agree with this, too. Those moments are when MGS’s “dere” side comes out so nicely (ch. 233, 234, 255, 259, 309, 329):
With all the aggression in MGS, it’s sometimes easy to forget that he’s actually a very caring person. A lot of that is just protected by thick emotional walls because his caring side has gotten him in serious trouble before. He’s learned to harden himself in that regard, but if people are persistent enough with him they will eventually see how caring he actually is.
It’s taken some time but MGS does care about HT. And he does care about JY and ZZX. They have all wiggled their way into his heart even though it probably rarely looks like that. He curses at them and tells them to fuck off, but if it really came to something serious, he would be worried and scared for them. I think the fact that HT has deemed MGS as someone safe around whom to show his more vulnerable side is proof of how MGS treats people who are looking for shelter - both literally and figuratively.
But again, I do understand if this kind of thing doesn't appeal to some people. It can be frustrating if A’s softer feelings only come out when B is in danger or hurt. Personally, I’m living for those little nuggets of worry and affection.
“i do believe that mo will come to realize and accept these feelings for tian / we’ll get to see how mo and tian dealt with being away from each other“
I’m interested in seeing if these two thoughts of yours will eventually be combined in the comic. It seems HT will be going away, so I wonder how that will affect MGS. Will the absence make him perhaps realize his budding romantic feelings towards HT?
But overall, I do agree and believe that MGS will eventually figure his feelings out and come to accept them. Despite everything, he is the kind who can make up his mind about these things and be surprisingly confident about it. Asking HT for the earrings being a good example of this.
I really liked hearing your thoughts and agreed with your takes! Thank you for sharing them with me!
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i have basically covered the material in this post several times on my twitter. but this is, in my opinion, the only s*xy t*mes with w*ngxian take you need.
(cw transphobia, transphobic slurs, antiblack racism, mentions of csa and bestiality in fiction)
edit 6/10/21: hi! i’m realizing people are still reading this! this was written in response to aja romano’s vox article on the fic that was published in late february of this year. i had been frustrated with how their article seemed to miss the point in many ways, because they never talked about the substance of the fic. which, i mean, fair. i wouldn’t want to read a 1million word fic either.
but i already had, so i thought i’d write about some things that i believed needed to be part of the conversation. namely, that its author wasn’t a harmless troll, but a person i genuinely disliked who i believed should be deplatformed.
i think virtual1979 is a bad person.
i think a lot of people mainly know about sexy times the phenomenon more than they do sexy times the fic itself. i have the dubious honor of being one of the few people who has actually read large portions of the million word fic, and that’s why i wanted to write this meanspirited hit piece.
the fic is down right now and the author’s notes and comments have both been deleted, which is why i cannot provide screenshots. however, these are all quotes i have saved from when the fic was online, and i’m happy to talk with anyone if you feel any of these quotes are mischaracterizations of the fic.
i also want to be clear this is not a “callout post” and i’m not trying to “cancel” them or whatever. i am just explaining why i don’t like them, why i don’t feel bad they’re being harassed, and why i do not find them sympathetic at all, and perhaps why you should also adopt these stances.
let’s start with transphobia.
sexy times with wangxian is transphobic. this much is apparent from the tags. virtual1979 tagged the following: F*tanari, d*ckgirl, Sh*male. they use this language in the chapters that include a character with both a vagina and a penis.
they refer to this character (wei wuxian) with the pronouns “he-she.” the following excerpt is a fair representation of how this wei wuxian is referred to in the chapters where wei wuxian has a vagina and a penis.
[Lan Zhan] would never be turned on by a female, and he would actually be turned off by a drag queen - but this… this Wei Ying, it’s Wei Ying, and he-she looks [...]
i know these words are common in porn categories, but they are also slurs. virtual1979 also uses hermaphrodite to refer to this set of anatomy, which is not strictly a slur, but definitely a stigmatizing choice of language.
they have repeatedly made clear they are not open to criticism. they have also since removed the comment section. making an intersex character for the express purpose of using transmisogynistic language towards them in your million word porn fic isn’t annoying the way their tags are, it’s actively fucked up.
fanfiction has a transphobia problem, and if we’re talking about sexy times with wangxian in any capacity, we must be clear: sexy times with wangxian is part of that problem too.
secondly, virtual1979 is also complicit in ao3’s racism problem.
i think the way they write about chinese characters and settings is annoying and racist, but they are a malaysian chinese person, so i do have some sympathy for them. i am committed to having some patience for people who are annoying if they themselves are working through the prejudice they have faced.
they’ve commented as much:
Not gonna lie, this fic has been a steep learning curve for me despite my roots being Chinese as well, but I have absolutely zero knowledge in some of these aspects!
and i’m happy on some level they can get in touch with their roots. who among us has not been cringe and diaspora. any criticisms i have of their portrayal of chinese people will stay private and be made to other people of color.
i’m going to be clear here i don’t think the actual comment they made makes them super evil or anything. but this essay IS clearly in response to That Article, which did mention racism in fandom. so.
i think we have all seen the infamous karen comment they made, in which they compared people who criticized their tagging with “Karens,” equating antiblack state violence to... mean comments on ao3? and “SJWs,” which, eye roll. no ageism but you’re 41 why the hell are you complaining about sjws
anyway. i am deeply frustrated by the co-option of the word karen. a stand-in for a particular type of racist violence white women specifically can and do inflict has become fused with that reddit-type mommy issue “can i speak to the manager” internecine white resentment.
so their trivialization of antiblack racism is another reason i don’t like them. again i KNOW it’s petty to point this out here, but this to me shows that virtual is afflicted with the same kind of fandom brainrot that aja is, where everything comes back to that same sort of self-centered bullshit.
sorry for that jab. julian told me that aja thought that cql was about callout culture and all i could think was “wow! just like virtual thinking that--” because i also have spent too much time on twitter this week.
this is just like. part of this ongoing pattern i’ve noticed with virtual, where they’re aware enough of real problems to acknowledge they exist (police violence, accessibility issues caused by their tagging) but are determined to double down on their minor relative persecution as king, shittily drawing parallels between like... real problems and fandom problems. equating the two or allowing the second to take priority over the former is like... par for the course for this type of person!
third, this is just another clarification on more parallels between ao3 discourse and sexy times that went completely unremarked on by That Article.
i would rather DIE than get into discourse. but why did they write this sentence:
Lan Zhan’s rational mind finally broke with a tsunami of pedophilic lusts [...]
by the way that is the start of a 430 word sentence. and yes this fic does contain hundreds of thousands of words of aged down wei wuxian. make of that what you will.
also why would you make wei wuxian teach baby chickens how to sexually pleasure him. do you hate these characters. what’s going on. i think mxtx should be able to sue virtual for that one.
there’s a very obvious connection between mainstream ao3 discourse and sexy times that went completely unremarked on in That Article. sexy times contains multitudes and some of those multitudes are bestiality and explicit childfucking.
this is not unrelated to fannish culture, they are not unfamiliar with fannish norms, blah blah blah. this is just normal fandom. they’re not subverting shit, they’re just a normal fan who unlike 99% of fanfiction writers on twitter, spends more time writing than posting. this has taken their fannish tendencies to cartoonish heights.
finally, they don’t care about mdzs or wangxian. they’re literally just horny and spiteful that’s it. this isn’t a question of like... “ohh they were a good faith participant in fandom until they went joker mode” and the REAL villain is society/ao3. like no they wanted to write shitty porn, and when they found out they were annoying people, they decided to double down because they could be the main character of the mdzs ao3 tag every time they found a spare hour to write.
here are some select receipts on that topic:
they do not care about canon:
MDZS has quite a complicated and expansive plot and history, and enough content that one can choose to tune out certain parts and still get to the end of the story in one piece. Also, because of its source, some fans may not fully realize the nuances, cultural aspects (ooh, cultural appropriation is another triggering topic) or the full breadth and depth of the source material, such as a person like me, who is half-baked in terms of knowing what the canon universe is all about. So I end up playing with characters and settings technically borrowed from the story, and make them do things that would otherwise run counter to the original source material - and that draws quite some flak from those opinionated people I mentioned just now. It's part of what makes the fandom toxic. It's like they're the self-appointed guardians of the source material and they act like they own the rights to question such questionble fanworks, and dare I say, try to take down those that cross certain lines too.
they are just horny:
After that giddines of extra drunken Lan Wang Ji scenes at the beginning, I'm blessed with Lan Wang Ji (Wang Yibo's, actually) fuzzy nips! Bless Bless Bless, and Amen! muahs the nips on the screen
anyway they did get nuked over wishing covid on people.
so yeah. i want to be really clear. this is my thesis: i do not feel bad for them. you should not either. i do not like them. you should not either. that’s ALL!!!!
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𝐠𝐢𝐫𝐥𝐬 𝐨𝐧 𝐟𝐢𝐥𝐦 | 𝐜𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐨𝐯𝐞𝐫 | 𝐬𝐭𝐞𝐯𝐞 𝐫𝐨𝐠𝐞𝐫𝐬 (𝟒)
part three
note - i wanna thank everyone for reading once again! i'm currently in the process of writing imagines, those will be posted throughout the week, i don't want to clog up my blog bc i want y'all to see this chapter!
this one switches pov a lil more frequently, so bear with me <3 also not as smutty as other chapters, this is more of an emotionally-charged chapter!!! still a teensy bit smutty thooo. i want to make it clear that while this fic is definitely rooted in smut & sex & sex work, it is not porn without plot & will not ONLY be smut as i put effort and time into plot development / character development! i'm sure y'all know that tho. there will be conflict, there will be plot!!! i feel like that's clear already but there's discourse on smut happening rn and i wanna voice myself! omg anyways luv y'all enjoy the reaaad <3
new taglist!
playlist
word count - 8.3k
warnings - age gap, sex work, smut, vibrator, ANGSTYYY like hella dramatic, dirty talk
That slight shift that you and Steve both felt, that happiness that you realized came from talking to one another, only lasted so long... for you. You could hardly sit in your feelings about your situation with Steve before another thing that occupied all your time came crashing down upon you. Except this time, the thing brought you no such happiness or curiosity.
You had spent almost your entire senior year working on a special lab project about drought tolerant plants in Southern California where you lived and went to school, and your professor was making completing your project incredibly hard for you. And you felt incredibly stressed out about the entire situation - not only was the project necessary to graduate, but it was your heart and soul for the past year. Now, your professor was basically saying it was "ineligible."
"Ineligible?" Aaliyah repeated after you, after you told her what your professor had said.
"Whatever the hell that means," you huffed as you power walked down the street, hand in hand with Aaliyah, your free hand holding a coffee.
"That's so fucking annoying, holy shit," Aaliyah pressed a hand to her forehead. "He had the whole year to talk to you about changing your topic and...”
"And he never did," you sighed, frowning. You settled down onto a bench where the two of you sat next to each other, staring out into the busy streets and sipping your iced coffees.
California was a beautiful place, and you were a native, you'd lived there all your life. You knew the ins and outs of your city, knew Southern California like it was your backbone. And you loved it here - loved the sun, the beaches, the way the people were either shady in the best way or incredibly friendly. You'd never really known any other place like you knew this place. You were just glad that if you had to be stressed, you could do so in California.
Aaliyah pouted, feeling for you. She placed her hand on your knee to be comforting,
"Babe..."
"It's okay," you sighed. You sucked it up, like always, because you had learned how to fend for yourself ever since you realized that depending on others could only lead to downfall. You would figure this out the same way you figured everything else out... on your own. You figured out your house on your own, your job, your finances.
"Is it, though?" Aaliyah pursed her lips and squinted at you. Despite how much you tried to fend for yourself, Aaliyah was always there for you. She was one of your biggest supporters.
"I'll just keep visiting during his office hours and work this out."
Aaliyah rolled her eyes,
"Men are so annoying, girl. You know what, he probably wants to fuck you. With your fine ass. That's why he's doing all this."
You chuckled, shaking your head and covering your mouth, trilling back in response,
"Okay girl, don't get too ahead of yourself."
"I'm serious! Men are evil. Oh, except your fave."
You made a face, nearly choking on your iced coffee. This was news to you,
"Who are we talking about?"
"You know," Aaliyah sang slightly, nudging you and leaning against your shoulder. "Mr. Won't Show His Face."
You scoffed, rolling your eyes, but bit down on your straw with a knowing smile, eyes peeking out over the top of your shades. If you were being honest, this idea of Steve, whoever he really was, had been a fun thing to entertain during this period of stress. You'd been talking and engaging with him for two and a half weeks now, and the connection you two had was undeniable.
But you knew better - maybe he wasn't just another customer, because you could really talk to him and felt like he was real - then again, he was strictly a customer. You liked him, a lot, but you couldn't like him any more than you already did. That would be dangerous and silly, and create unrealistic expectations. It wasn't like you could go on dates or anything.
Still, talking to him (and performing for him) did help to distract you from your stress, at least for a small amount of time. Steve was becoming less shy, less inhibited. He cracked jokes and was starting to keep up with your innate sense of sexuality, starting to navigate you, find you the way a bee might find its nectar, hidden deep inside the curvatures of a flower.
If you were a flower, you'd probably be a sunflower - bright, yellow, almost always in a positive mood, or at least trying to keep yourself in a positive mood. More than that though, sunflowers were tall and looming - you felt like that represented your put togetherness and how hard you worked, how smart you were. Only sometimes it was hard to keep yourself up and tall, but you always did it, time and time again.
But when it came to Aaliyah's comments about Steve, she mostly just made you laugh.
"Haven't seen him yet, have you?" Aaliyah asked, raising her brows expectantly.
"No. And I'm fine with that. He's simply another very loyal customer who I happen to like."
"Hm," Aaliyah hummed, and you could tell her mind was up to something - some very wishful, and mischievous thinking.
"What are you up to?" you narrowed your eyes at her and glared at her, and she just shook her head with a lazy smile,
"Nothing. Just thinking that maybe it would be cool if he really was this really hot guy that you actually knew and he wasn't creepy and y'all... you know... started dating. Just to get your mind off a lot of crap. I know, I know, strictly against the rules, blah blah blah. No feelings for customers, it's basic shit. But in a perfect world..."
"I know," you sighed without thinking, sipping at your drink.
"You know?" Aaliyah questioned, surprised.
You shrugged,
"So I've thought about it. Except, you know, in a perfect world, I'd meet a guy like Steve in like, a farmer's market or something. Not on my shady ass cam shows."
Aaliyah snorted laughing, and at the sound of her laughter, you joined in.
You continued,
"I mean, not Steve exactly, because that would be weird. I just mean, a guy like Steve."
"You mean a guy who makes you feel the same way he makes you feel," Aaliyah corrected you, and you glared at her again, pushing her gently.
"Don't push it," you teased, but you meant it - you might have liked Steve, but that was all there was to it - you liked him, he was a distraction. And maybe even that was too much.
✺ ✺ ✺
As for Steve, he thoroughly enjoyed his time with you. He thought constantly about how you made him feel, how much he looked forward to talking to you. How everyday, his worry about your situation becoming more serious dissipated slowly. He could feel himself easing into you, everything that made up this character you created called Moonrose. Conversation seemed casual, like you knew each other in real life, it felt easy, and there was no pressure.
As for your connection, he had finally acknowledged that it was real, and more than either of you had wanted to realize at first. But now, there was no shame, no worry in acknowledging what the two of you had, because you were both smart enough to keep it at this level. It was like a shallow pool. There would be no drowning.
He mostly talked to Bucky about you when it came to the emotional aspect of it. He still feared that if he talked to Tony, it might come across as an issue, and might put a pause on what he had with you. But everyone noticed how different Steve was acting. Even without the phase he had gone through where he was sexually frustrated and angry, he still acted different.
Lighter on his feet, more smiley. And he was always on top of his work. You weren't distracting him from his duty, so that made the fact that he knew you had a unique connection with him more bearable. Because of you, he was learning to worry less. To have a little more fun.
It was a bright day that week, the sun filtering in through the large windows of the meeting room where everyone was gathered. Steve was engaging in some mindless conversation with Sam and Bucky in which they were debating whether or not pineapple belonged on pizza.
"No. I'm not sure why everyone keeps trying to put all these twists on pizza. It's pizza," Bucky scoffed, Sam rolling his eyes as a result.
"You're just closed off. With your old ass," Sam retorted, and Steve made a face. Sam raised his hands up in surrender. "You know what I mean. What about you Steve?"
Honestly, Steve had never even tried pineapple on pizza and he didn't understand why there was such a big fuss about the banal question.
"I don't really have an opinion," he shrugged, not expecting Sam and Bucky to start clamoring over him and trying to force him to pick a side.
Before he even got to grasp the situation, he felt Natasha patting his shoulder,
"Hey, mind if I use your laptop? Mine's gone haywire, don't really feel like messing with it right now."
"Yeah," Steve agreed without a second thought, setting his laptop on the table and letting Natasha handle it- she was better with tech stuff than he ever was.
Natasha would use his laptop to showcase some data and start off their morning. It seemed innocent enough —a simple, barely impacting sacrifice. But Steve clearly hadn't thought everything through, because the moment Natasha logged in and hooked up Steve's computer to the holographic projector, more than just data appeared on the screen.
In fact, a whole array of women, all of them engaging in various sexual acts or preparing themselves to, showed up on the screen. And at the top, where the browser was, were the words "girlsonfilm.com."
Steve hadn't noticed all the clamor, too busy thinking (thoughts of you and thoughts of work), until Bucky called it to his attention.
"Steve," he nudged him frantically, his voice a loud whisper.
When Steve looked up at the screen, his face couldn't have gone any redder. He hadn't thought about this at all, and he had clearly forgotten to close out his browser. His heart sunk all the way to his stomach - because it wasn't just Natasha seeing this, it was everybody. And that included Tony, who was glaring pointedly at Steve from the head of the table. Meanwhile, all the others were too busy heckling Natasha and making brash comments about what was appearing onscreen. To Steve's relief, your face didn't show up, but this just might have been worse than only your screen appearing.
"Woah, Nat, I didn't know you got down like that!" Sam hooted, cupping his mouth with his hands.
Natasha, though she was in shock as well, rolled her eyes,
"This is Steve's laptop."
Now a hush, then another clamor of confusion and heckling, all directed towards Steve. He couldn't recoil any more, feeling the pangs of embarrassment as his eyes flashed between every one of his teammates. He felt as if there were an asteroid approaching fast, and he was right where it would land, too slow to move out of its way.
"Steve, what do you know about 'girls on film'?" Sam nearly cackled, reading the name of the site.
Steve sighed deeply, locking eyes with Natasha as he mouthed "turn it off" to her.
"I am, I am," she ensured him, quickly disconnecting the laptop from the projection, unplugging completely.
A beat passed, everyone staring expectantly at Steve, who was staring down at the table, trying to process his own thoughts. Like for starters, why didn't he log out the last time, and why didn't he remember to log out? And then his mind went to deeper places. He hadn't been intentionally secretive with his actions, but he had been intentionally private. It had to do with his own growth, he was learning how to navigate a world that was new to him and somehow helping him at once. He didn't want to have to share this with everyone, it was nice having this to himself, he had no intentions of revealing what he had been doing in his past time that made him so happy.
One of the reasons he didn't want everyone to know about his situation was because he didn't want to have to be concerned with what everyone else might think. Because to begin with, being on a site for cam shows wasn't exactly everyone's idea of what Captain America might be up to these days.
It was a matter of his image, what values he was supposed to hold. This didn't exactly match, and Steve had just gotten over the idea that he was a bad, sneaky person because of what he chose to indulge in. At least here he knew it was ethical and not causing harm to you as a human being.
He also didn't want to have to deal with the insufferable questioning and teasing his team would put him through, or the judgment he thought they might put him through. He felt embarrassed, exposed, and like he had been ill prepared for a situation like this. He was just grateful they hadn't seen more, because that would've been a disaster. What they had seen was only at the surface level of what he'd been doing.
But his thinking was interrupted by Tony's voice, which broke through all the silence, and made Steve realize again the eyes that were on him.
"Well, jig's up," Tony sighed, leaning back in his chair. "Care to explain?"
Steve locked eyes with Tony, as if hopeful that he wouldn't have to, but he knew it was best for him to just spit it out. Tony shrugged apologetically, and Steve took in a deep sigh, looking around at everyone at the table.
"What was that?" Scott whimpered, probably the most distraught by what they had all seen.
Steve nodded solemnly and began to explain himself. He would tell the truth, but that didn't mean he had to tell them everything. You would be left out of this, if anything. He'd just explain to them that sometimes, duty calls - and sometimes, it's not at all work-related.
✺ ✺ ✺
It was just hours before your cam show when another disaster struck, the first one being the fact that your professor was giving you shit about your project. You were in the bathroom, getting ready for your show, fixing your hair up and doing your makeup, laying out an outfit, doing all the things you did to feel pretty before a show.
Your phone lay beside you on the bathroom table, pinging with messages every now and then. You ignored it, leaning closer into the mirror to get a look at your lipstick, dabbing your fingers into the pigment on your lips.
You smiled, feeling that gratifying sense of achievement. Despite what was going on with your professor, you felt like you were doing well in life. You usually had a positive mindset, enjoyed your work although you sometimes felt as if you were buried deep in all your occupations: student, office worker, cam girl, designer, young woman. Your life was never dull, and you wouldn't trade it for anything. Talking to Steve helped too, but it was more than that.
But that sense of satisfaction all seemed to dissolve when you looked down at your phone, and saw a text from an unsaved number, glaring bright on your glowing lock screen of you hiking with Aaliyah. Still, you recognized it immediately.
xxx-xxx-xxxx
I miss you. Text me back.
✺ ✺ ✺
Steve wasn't exactly keen on joining your live show today, but he did so anyway, because he still had time to himself despite the spiral of events that had happened earlier. There was nothing else to do, and he didn't want to miss out on you after attending almost all of your shows for the past almost three weeks. Didn't want to just leave unexpectedly.
It felt strange that he felt this tug of commitment, but he brushed it off. He was just fulfilling his needs, which should even be expected of him. He was stressed again, after being caught up like he was. And maybe that was all the more reason not to watch your show tonight, but he wouldn't devoid himself of the simple pleasures of life. He'd learned that lesson a while ago, from a special someone called Moonrose.
After everything transpired, he explained himself calmly to his team, slowly to ensure that they'd understand that this wasn't the beginning of a deviant phase, that he wasn't throwing away his work responsibilities to lurk on the NSFW side of the internet. Not that they ever thought that to begin with, they never questioned his abilities or his authority for a minute, not even in the midst of what they'd seen that had shocked them.
This was the product of Steve's own insecurities and his admittedly silly fear that he was somehow letting his team down. He told them that he was on the site, as recommended by Tony, to relieve some "frustration" that he felt he didn't have the time or the means to release in real life. He said that while it had helped him do that, he wasn't throwing away his responsibilities, nor was he dependent on the site or the things on it, or the people on it for that matter.
He knew that if they knew about you, all those private sessions, all those conversations you'd had, the connection you had built between the two of you, it might be a different story. But because they didn't, they appreciated his honesty. They were confused, it didn't seem like the kind of thing Steve would be into, and he ensured them that it was a shock to him as well.
But they didn't mind on the whole, it was just a shock to everyone at first. They didn't think it called for a meeting, thought it was almost humorous how serious Steve was being about such a trivial situation. Wanda had joked about how we've all been there, Thor denied ever having to do such a thing because: "I have all the romantic partners anyone could ask for. I could introduce you Steve, but these Asgardian women are fiery, far beyond anything I believe you could handle." In the end, Steve was relieved, felt like it didn't have the disastrous outcome he'd been expected.
But he could feel his guard slowly coming back up. That was a close call, and it was a little too close for comfort. He didn't want to disregard you, but he couldn't afford to sink further in, and get his team involved. He just didn't want to face the consequences he could imagine if they knew how much he decided to stick with you, how much you talked, how it was teetering off the range of normal customer to cam girl interaction.
It wasn't like he was careless when it came to his interactions with you, but he also didn't want his team to know about his business when it came to you. He didn't want them thinking he was engaging too much, didn't want it to get to the point where he was worrying again or felt like he needed to deny himself such wonderful feelings.
All these things were on his mind while he waited for your live show to start. When it did, and he saw your face, he felt a little bit alleviated. Just for now, he could have this fantasy to himself. If they knew about the site, so be it. At least he had you to himself.
"Hey guys," you mustered a smile, waving to the camera.
Unbeknownst to your viewers, you had spent the past few hours off camera panicking, on the verge of tears, calling Aaliyah frantically so she could help calm you down. That text from that mysterious unknown number had been from your ex's number. The same ex who made you fall into dependency patterns that you worked so hard to get out of, the one who made you feel like you had to work for his love. Like it wasn't something you deserved, just like anyone else.
You had worked so hard to finally wring out all the effects of him, all the bad habits you had fallen into because of him. That was part of the reason why you worked so hard. Not because you were actively avoiding him specifically, but because you were actively bettering yourself. You weren't looking for a relationship. But you knew that if you were in one now, the same things would never happen to you.
When you got that text, it triggered a flood of memories. Feelings you had to work to suppress and actually get over for months so you wouldn't fall back into the same desperate, needy patterns when it came to your relationships with people. All over a simple text from someone you hadn't heard from in almost a year. It hurt you how easy it was to get you to crack, even if you didn't spill out all the way. But on top of the added stress because of school, you were damn close.
You would do the show tonight, anyway. It helped you to escape, although Moonrose was a part of you, it didn't one hundred translate into real life. So in a way, this helped you escape real life. Just for a while. Just like Steve.
You grinned when you saw concerned comments from your watchers:
johnGuy182
Are you okay, moonrose? You seem a little sad.
zenongirl
Girl r u ok? i missed seeing your face!!!
"Guys, I'm okay," you grinned. And you actually felt better seeing comments from your supporters. It reminded you to cheer up - they were looking for a good show, not a sob story. You leaned back, revealing your stomach in the sheer, sparkly fringed bra you chose to wear (another piece you had designed by yourself). "It's been a looong day."
Steve watched silently, observing your behavior. He didn't notice drastic changes, but you did appear less chipper. Then again, he brushed it off. He didn't expect you to be smiley all the time, you were human too, and this was your work.
"But I'm okay," you reassured, giving that signature grin, genuine and charming and alluring. You were trying to gently distract yourself, get into your act. "I hope you're all just as lovely as I am. I have a special game for you today."
You directed your viewers to your spinning wheel, which you had been working on crafting that week for a game. You grinned as you spinned it. Each act on the wheel cost a certain amount of tokens, and by the end of the game you would garner a bunch of funds. The show went by relatively quickly as you played the game, eventually ending up completely naked.
As ordered by the spinning wheel, you were to use a vibrator. You held it against your clit at the highest setting as you watched the numbers of viewers and the tokens jump up, Steve watching as he stroked himself leisurely. Your legs shook as you restrained yourself from your orgasm so as to increase the length of your showtime, garner more coins to encourage you to come.
"Mm," you moaned, massaging the vibrator against your clit, getting wetter and slicker by the minute, sliding the toy between your folds. You laughed, breathless. "Fuck, this thing is so powerful. Someone make me come, please make me come. Just a few more tokens for me to come for you."
Steve was hesitant, but he decided to go ahead and give you the amount of tokens you needed. And when you heard the chime of the tokens being added to your account, and saw the name it was attached to, it was like a blast of euphoria. When your legs started to shake, when you started to moan and your stomach started to rise up and down, it was genuine. It was like you were back in a private room with him, although you weren't.
Your orgasm was blood-curdling in the best way, and you felt like you were releasing part of the stress of the past day, the past week. It didn't get any realer than this, once again you felt like he was really there to satisfy you.
"Oh!" you exclaimed, your mouth dropping open and your blood flowing, moaning. "Yes, Steve, I'm coming for you. Thank you for making me come, Steve!"
Steve had been stroking himself along with you as he watched, and only let himself come now that you had come, his cheeks heating up as he heard you moan his name, something he hadn't been expected. Something about you saying his name like that where everyone could hear, even though he enjoyed the intimacy of private rooms, felt victorious. It felt lewd, salacious, but he couldn't help but enjoy that aspect of it. He moaned through grit teeth while he came, stroking himself to completion.
You came down, thanking everyone for attending and ending the show. But it wasn't long after that you had requested Steve for a private chat. He accepted, because he had gotten used to you doing this a little more frequently. It didn't scare him any more, he just thought of it as making conversation, taking advantage of this connection you had with each other. So when you requested, who was he to say no.
When the chat log opened, you put on your best happy face for Steve, trying to conceal how fatigued this week, today in particular, had made you. But your tired, bleak voice gave it all away, buried deep beneath your smile,
"Hey, Steve."
Steve was surprised at the sound of your voice. Again, while he understood that you wouldn't be a happy go lucky fairy like personality all the time, he wasn't expecting this. You were smiling, but the weariness in your eyes was hard to miss. And your voice, which usually told light hearted tales, sounded worn down as if from tragedy. He was concerned, his eyebrows furrowed gently,
"Hi. How are you?"
"I'm good!" you exclaimed, trying your hardest to really sound "good."
But you were just tired. Tired and sad, and scared - scared of what the future had to hold. You were already dealing with school stress, and the text from your ex-boyfriend was like a bad omen, an anxiety-provoking assurance that things actually would not get better and they would in fact get progressively worse. You weren't even sure why you thought you should be talking to Steve if you were tired and just wanted to sleep off the weight of the week. It would be a weekend tomorrow, and one of your very rare days off.
Maybe you figured that you wanted to talk to him despite your fatigue, because conversation with Steve was a nice distraction. You had let yourself forget that this was still your job, and that you were too tired for anything sexual — you knew he liked talking to you, but you hadn't put into consideration the fact that he might request a sexual act from you. You would be burnt out if he did. The fact that you didn't think about that should've been telling, but your brain was too scattered to think straight.
Anyway, Steve called your bluff, and laughed quietly, his voice inquiring and pressing,
"How are you really?"
That was all it took to get a deep sigh to come from out of you, all it took to allow yourself to show your true feelings, at least the surface of them, what you felt comfortable showing a customer. You felt a sense of relief and gratefulness for Steve, like he was letting you breathe. And if anything, he especially wasn't enlisted to listen to your problems. But he wanted to, and for that you felt foolishly grateful.
Steve noted the deep sigh that came from out of you, and he frowned slightly. He could tell you had been holding this in for a while, and some part of him felt remorse for the fact that even though you clearly weren't in the right mindset, you went on and did your show anyway. He felt some guilt for being a part of the reason why you did your show.
You answered, allowing your voice to be as honest as possible.
"Honestly?" you chuckled a little, albeit bitterly. "I don't know if you really want to hear me rant to you."
Steve shook his head.
"Don't be silly," he grinned. "I wouldn't have asked if I didn't want to."
You felt a warm rush in your chest from the reassurance, and the corner of your lip quirked up in a small smile, before you decided to dive in. You'd spare the emotional details, spare your private life. But it would be nice to talk to someone, just about the general things, right?
"Well, it's been a pretty stressful week, honestly. I mean, school's been the main source of my stress. My professor's such an asshole, he's basically been telling me my entire senior project, which I need to complete to graduate, needs to be redone? And I can't even fathom how I would have enough time to do that with like, two and a half months left of my senior year. I mean, he said I can keep most details, but I'd have to rework it, whatever that means."
You kept your emotions at bay, sighing in annoyance just at the story you told, because it really was irritating you. But then you felt deeper things, even more went into why you really were upset.
Steve nodded, just listening. He was prepared to offer advice, but in your situation, he thought that maybe just letting you rant would be best.
"That's gotta be annoying," he shook his head understandingly. "Whatever your project is, I'm sure it's wonderful. He shouldn't be forcing you to rework it or make any last minute changes."
"I know!" you nearly jumped up, feeling amped up now. "And it's just so fucking annoying because I work so hard and I'm really passionate about this project and it just feels like..."
It felt like you were about to overflow, like a pot of water that had been left on for too long. You were ranting almost uncontrollably now, maybe because of the fact that it was more than this that was tugging at you. Because you'd been carrying the weight of your life on your shoulders all the time, like Atlas carrying the sky, and it felt like that weight was finally starting to mean something.
Steve could see you were unraveling and he let you, he let you take the time you needed to feel everything you had been holding. If your connection was strong, it was at its strongest here. Sure, you and Steve chatted about a little bit of everything, even had deeper conversations here and there as the weeks went by. But you had yet to genuinely complain to him, because every time you spoke with him, you were happy go lucky Moonrose, with nothing to complain about to begin with. But now, you needed a release by any means, and you were just glad Steve was there for you, even if he wasn't really there. How unlike you to unfold in front of strangers.
Your breath stuttered as you took in a deep breath in a failed attempt to calm down, only further driving yourself into your rambling. You felt yourself tear up, your voice becoming watery as you continued,
"It just feels like all my work is turning to shit, and it's so fucking frustrating because I work so hard all the time, I do so much and I manage so much all the time."
The "hard work" you were talking about wasn't just school and work-related, it pertained to your journey, and how hard you had worked to be a better person. To support yourself. The emotions pent up inside of you, they were more than just being upset over a school project. The idea of someone toxic trying to re-enter your life, someone who had forced you to rework the entirety of your life, made you feel like you were on the verge of crashing. You knew better, but you didn't want to return to those dark days, where the light at the end of the winding tunnel that was your relationship seemed so far away. It was why you were so weary of relationships today. It was crazy how one person could change your life so easily.
Now you were crying, before you even noticed that you were crying. Tears just seemed to leak out of your eyes, sloshing wet and sudden against your cheeks and underneath your lashes. You wiped them away quickly with the back of your hand, frazzled at the fact that you were crying in front of a customer right now. Steve said he'd listen to you, he didn't say he'd watch you cry and be your therapist. You instantly regretted it, although you couldn't stop yourself, tears threatening to emerge again. If you were cracked before, you were spilling now.
Steve was surprised too, at the fact that you were crying. You appeared so put together to him, it was almost something he didn't expect from you. He was in shock at first, so much so that professionalism was not on his mind - it was an afterthought. Right now, instead of wondering if this was appropriate, he was occupied with you.
"I'm sorry," you murmured, but you still hadn't stopped, tears falling out as you blinked. Composure was nothing now, you were sobbing, your shoulders slumped and your head hung as you sniffled. Still you enforced control, wiping away every tear that fell with the back of your hand. "I'm really sorry, I don't mean to cry to you over this, that's so-"
Steve cut you off, shaking his head slowly,
"It's okay to cry, doll. We all have those days. I know better than anyone that we all have those days."
You mustered a smile, feeling cared for, feeling accounted for by someone who wasn't even obligated to have to see you like this. Still you shook your head, sniffling,
"I know. But it's-it's stupid, I shouldn't be crying in front of you."
"I'm not judging you," Steve said, so nonchalantly and firmly, so genuine that it almost scared you.
You blinked. He should've cared, and he should've judged you. To cry in front of Steve, a customer, was to imply he had some duty to comfort you when he probably just wanted a show. You knew that you didn't have to do anything you didn't want to, but even you had rules when it came to what your customers got to see, and to you, that meant they didn't have to deal with your blues.
"Really?"
"Really," he reassured you with a nod.
Was Steve scared that by giving you this reassurance, this entire situation could become deeper than either of you could handle? Yes. But did he let himself shut down because of those pervasive thoughts that he might get himself into trouble? No. He didn't see you as a liability right now. Right now, even though the situation was certainly questionable (and this was something he had no doubt about. When emotions get into the mix, things could get tricky- he knew this), he saw you as someone who desperately needed someone to talk to. Maybe it wasn't smart of you to make him that someone, but regardless, he was, and who was Steve Rogers not to listen to a person in need?
You blinked away the last of your tears and swallowed hard. You were making this choice consciously, to tell Steve what had really gotten you to your breaking point. And maybe telling him meant you had trust in him, maybe too much trust for someone who, while great, was still a customer. But you felt like there was nothing you could lose from telling him. Maybe you'd even feel better after the fact.
You looked down, picking at the body glitter on your arm that you had applied before the show. Your voice was considerably quieter now perhaps because you were looking back on the moment with a clear mind for the first time since it happened. You hadn't been thinking straight ever since you received the text just hours ago. Now your brain was a little quieter with the help of your tears and Steve's reassurance.
"I think that the stress of this school project is making me resent how hard I work for everything, just to be met with this kind of result, you know? And it's even worse when... things seem to be going backwards. You know, like when you make so much progress, moving on from things that don't serve you, and you've finally done it and you get to flourish in it and then, it just gets taken away from you. Maybe I'm being dramatic, but that's just how this feels."
Steve nodded, his jaw ticking as he let your words settle in. Somehow, although your situation was so different from his, he felt like your words perfectly described how he felt with the world sometimes. It was even part of the reason he'd held off on talking to you like this, held off on getting too involved. He too had made so much progress in this world, which took so much getting adjusted to in a way that absolutely nobody else could relate to.
It was a world that he didn't even know, a world that he had never been properly introduced to. He'd had to fend for himself. He did his healing on his own, just like you had. And yet sometimes it felt like he had no control, like the universe was going the opposite way of all his plans. Then he felt stupid for even having plans to begin with, because in life, making plans was like comedy for the gods.
There was a weird feeling in his chest and stomach, like he'd been stabbed with a gutting realization, and the knife was just turning inside of him, churning his insides. He began to feel a sense of unease, because this deep conversation was beginning to feel incredibly personal. Even though you were talking about your own situation, he couldn't help but think about how much he resonated, and the fact that he felt like he could relate to you on such a deep level scared him. This was more than the conversations you'd had before, more than the simple similarities you and Steve shared. This felt like a conversation that might be too telling for his good and your own.
He swallowed his words as he listened to you continue. You chose your words carefully, but you had shed yourself of your inhibitions when it came to being truthful.
"Earlier... I heard from someone I hadn't heard from in a long time. And it kind of pushed me over the edge," out of your mouth stumbled a laugh. You were calmer now, and looked up at the camera, Steve swallowing hard when you did so. It was all so real, just like it was when you touched yourself and moaned Steve's name. "I think it just made me feel all those things I just explained. Because I feel like I worked so hard to rid myself of this person and them trying to come back just feels like all the things I worked so hard on are going to unravel. Even though I know they aren't, it feels like a setback. And that was like, the icing on the cake to this already terrible day, I guess."
You let out a breathy laugh and smiled gently, shaking your head slowly.
"I normally wouldn't be telling this to a customer. But here we are. Again, I'm sorry... I feel like I shouldn't have said anything? Should I... have said anything?"
In the brief silence that followed your question, both you and Steve were thinking the same thing - were you going to regret this? Intimacy both physically and emotionally was good when you capped it at what you both knew to be appropriate. When it came to the physical aspects, you each let your fantasies unwind.
And on the emotional aspect, though you had both grown closer and more open, some things just didn't get touched upon. But now you had just cried over the screen, and spoke from the depths of your heart. It was scary to open up in such an uncertain situation where your own privacy was an aspect that got involved. There was no doubt that it was too much. It was just a question of whether the result would be negative.
Steve sighed deeply, a crease forming in his forehead as he furrowed his brows together, folding his arms over his chest.
"I don't know..." he trailed off, took a breath, a leap, his body practically lurching forward. "But... it can't be a bad thing that you feel comfortable talking to me about this, can it?"
And there it was, that glint of hope he was trying his hardest to conceal. That feeling he got when he got off that call with you, the one where you both started giving into those unspoken thoughts. That this couldn't be so bad, that you could enjoy each other's company without worrying.
You smiled gently,
"I guess. It does feel weird though, it's not something I normally do. It feels like something I shouldn't be doing."
You could hear Steve breathing in deeply, and for a moment, you imagined what he might look like, envisioning the outline of a troubled face, eyebrows knit together. You snapped back to reality and made a face, confused by your abrupt thoughts. You had long gotten over the very brief desire to see Steve's face- why was it coming back again?
"I'll be honest, same here," Steve agreed with your sentiments.
"Do you always feel like you have to restrain what you say when you talk to people? Or is it just with me?" you added that last part in a quiet voice, biting your lip.
Steve chuckled briefly,
"Are you asking me if I have trust issues? Because I'd tell you, but I'd have to trust you to do that."
You shook your head and laughed at Steve's stupid joke, and shrugged.
"I could say the same thing, I think. This person I heard from earlier is... I developed those trust issues because of them. Or, my already existent trust issues became worse. But what's funny about it is that this person was once someone that I loved," even as the words were coming out you questioned why you were letting them, why you were allowing yourself to be so truthful in a situation like this at a time when you were so vulnerable.
Steve didn't reply, again feeling that sick feeling in his stomach that stemmed from his fear. The fear that this conversation were too serious, fear surrounding the fact that he was able to relate so much to such a personal situation of yours.
You spoke again, daring to ask the question that felt like a final blow to Steve's stomach,
"Have you ever been in love, Steve?"
Now Steve knew he was in uncharted territory. Not because he feared you might try to exploit him, but because he was so struck by the fact that he had allowed himself to feel so safe with you and get so close to you. He was surprised at himself for letting you feel safe enough to have these kinds of conversations with him. It all felt like a mistake now. He wanted a way out, any way out. He knew if he even attempted to answer that question, he would be making a big mistake. He had shared some of his most intimate moments with you, but always keeping in mind a very sharp line he didn't want to be crossed.
And in his mind, he thought of the one love he'd had, the one love that hadn't been fulfilled because of the situation he had been thrown into, one he had never signed up for. He thought of how the things he cared most for in life had been discarded, how, like you, he felt like it had gone to shit. How sometimes, though he tried his best to be grateful and had taken that journey of self-healing just like you, it all felt like some sick joke.
Could he even call it love? He wasn't sure. And he wasn't going to answer. He wasn't going to answer at all, because he wouldn't be talking to you again. There would be no chance for this dilemma to resurface, not with you, not on this site. He made the decision with haste and a heavy heart - he was done here.
The discomfort was well evident in his voice, answering loud and clear, though his voice was morose and a bit closed off. You sensed the shift immediately.
"I... I can't talk about that right now. Listen, I have to go."
You felt a pang in your chest at the sudden switch in his demeanor, straightening up and trying not to frown. All this time you had been letting the words spill out, telling yourself not to worry so much, reassuring yourself it was okay to make your feelings known. Now it felt like you should've never said anything at all. You started to stammer.
"Oh, I- I'm sorry, I didn't mean to pry, I was just... I feel like I got a little overwhelmed." You laughed nervously. "I didn't mean to scare you."
Steve felt his throat ran dry as he blinked, feeling emotions come up to surface that he wasn't quite familiar with. Maybe he was grieving in advance, regretting the decision he was making to no longer speak with you, regretting the fact that he was letting fear get in the way of what he wanted so badly to be a good thing.
"No, I'm sorry. I feel like I let things go too far," Steve apologized, but the apology felt more like an insult.
Was he implying that whatever this was, you couldn't handle it, and that it was his fault for somehow leading you on? You had both made the connection with each other, it was an equal effort. And why was he acting like the two of you communicating at all was somehow below him, somehow a risk? If anything, you were the one risking it just by talking to him the way you did. You were opening up to him.
You almost felt betrayed - you had convinced yourself that he wouldn't want to listen to your problems and you told yourself it wasn't his responsibility to listen. And then he listened anyway, told you that he wanted to hear it, and you cried to him. You felt like you had made so many unusual accommodations just for him to scare off like this. He was just another person you had expressed your feelings to, only to regret it in the end.
"Too far?" you questioned, furrowing your brows.
Steve swallowed. In your voice he could hear a hint of frustration, but even worse- hurt. It pained him more than he cared for you to know.
"I don't think we should talk anymore," he said instead.
"What?" you were taken by surprise. "Steve, I'm... I'm not understanding. I... I don't usually open up to people like this, I mean, I thought maybe it was fine here, because I feel like I know you. But you're still a stranger. I understand you're a customer but I thought we were talking, I thought we broke through that wall-"
"We did. And we shouldn't have," Steve said, his voice so calm and firm that it was almost cold.
By now you were just staring into the computer camera, as if you were looking at him and waiting for him to come to his senses. But as you did that, you slowly came to your own. Because you weren't looking at him. You were looking at a black screen with his voice behind it. You realized you hadn't known Steve, not enough to talk about these things. And just like him, you too were full of regret. You kept all those walls up for the sake of customer relations, only to put them down and be met with this disastrous result.
Steve almost couldn't bare to look at your face anymore. You were confused, hurt. He could tell you regretted the fact that you had opened up. He was hurt too, but he wouldn't show it, or let it overcome him to the point where your methods of communication with each other became something neither of you could control. Still, yes, he was hurt.
But he had been through plenty of hardships in life. What was one more, even if it shouldn't have come to this point anyway?
"I'm sorry, Moonrose. We can't. Goodbye."
Chat over.
#steve rogers#steve rogers imagine#steve rogers x reader#steve rogers reader insert#reader insert#smut#captain america civil war#captain america x reader#captain america imagine#captain america smut#captain america#girls on film#marvel#marvel imagine#marvel smut#marvel reader insert#steve rogers series#captain america series
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Favorite dair scene(s)?
Haha, I wonder if this is going to end up with me just listing all of their scenes together. OK these are in no particular order.
The 5x16 kiss.
I actually quite like this kiss because of the way Dan can’t help himself.
and by the time Serena walks in, Blair is pretty into it
Looks like I’m starting with the kisses but their 5x17 kiss as well and the kiss is good
but the fact that Blair calls him ‘Dan’ and that’s how he knows and the viewers know that she’s serious is what really had me like, yay!
The Tie
Because I thought the sexual frustration here was done so well on Dan’s part and Blair’s obliviousness to it but on the flipside, when they do kiss in this episode, her frustration with not wanting to want the kiss but wanting it anyway:
The Tiara
I mean I feel like there’s this discourse of Chuck being the one who truly knows and loves Blair but I really think that it’s Dan and it really reminded me of how when Chuck said something along the lines of, “The next time you forget you’re Blair Waldorf, remember I’m Chuck Bass and I love you” whereas Dan is just like, “Remember you are royalty” and made it solely about her.
The Cult
That time that Blair was so happy that Darota literally thought she had joined a cult.
Penn exudes a lot vulnerability through the eyes when with Leighton and this scene is a great example of that and also a great example of the safety and support that Blair hasn’t received throughout her romantic relationships
Move Night
The scene that got me shipping them in the first place!
Essentially every moment they have on this couch
They’re actually so soft.
Every time they realized that they had a connection
Whenever Dan would give Blair a pep talk/offer advice because like I mentioned in a post of mine, from Day One, even when they hated each other, I don’t think Blair respected anyone’s opinion as much as she respected Dan’s:
Drunk Dair was hilarious
I am a sucker of this moment in the Elevator sex scene too:
Domestic!Dair (which is also Literati!Dair) is also super cute, I like their little moments
And just their general bickering scenes, their comedic chemistry is gold
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I know you’ve shared the song-fic prompt with your other account, but I want something BoB related, so here I am^^ I’d like to know, what you would make of the song Ruby Lee by Bill Withers and David Webster (can be webgott, but doesn’t have to (; )
Aaahh, my dear, thank you so, so much!! I admit I didn’t know the song but I love it and this was pretty delightful to write!
Webgott it is :D although, if it turned out to be more about Joe than David, somehow, I am sorry! XD and I don’t know if it’s any good, really, they are damn hard to write! Oo But anyways, I tried to deliver^^
Of one night, one desire, three thousand miles and a few more barriers in between.
Staring at shadows on the wall
Wish I knew of someone I could call
Someone who might understand it all
He had never thought that, of all people, he would come to miss Joe Liebgott the most. The simple yet so complex, snarky, stubborn illiterate with more fight in him than could fit in his skinny body, with a dark edge to his humour and to his views on life and war, so unlike all David had ever known and believed… Yet, he would trust him with his whole existence anyday, and feel safe.
Sometimes, he felt the urge to call him. Then he realized he had no idea what to say. What about his life could possibly be interesting to a Frisco cabbie? People he’s surrounded by that don’t understand, cannot understand, because they never left their homes, the worst way the war has touched them was the rationing they both lamented about and made it their martyrdom, as though the price for freedom and peace in the world was them drinking half as much coffee as normal, they bought a war bond and made it sound like they singlehandedly took out half of the Wehrmacht… Or those stupid books that are just words and words, heaps of splendid words that don’t mean a thing, and he can’t see the purpose anymore? He didn’t feel like complaining about the hardships of literature studies to a man with two jobs to make ends meet.
He wanted to know how Joe’s life had turned out, how he was coping, but he knew, if he asked, he was going to get showered in deflection and biting sarcasm he really could go without.
Still, he missed Liebgott to deep, dull ache in ribcage. The smirk that ever so seldom turned one shade warmer and formed a true smile to die for. Horseshoe arch of fringe that David sometimes wanted to brush back just to run his fingers through that softness for a moment. Unreadably dark eyes, piercing and spellbinding, always fiery with some inner turmoil.
He’s so beautiful.
David took a deep, steadying breath, startled by the intensity of his thought more than anything else. He literally felt a tingle running through his body, watering his mouth, tightening the throat, clenching his chest and… God, Web, breathe, in and out… and then further down the thighs to the toes. He squeezed his eyes. Cold, pale marble beauty, incandescent flame within, it was all he could see, all he could think of and yearn for… He rolled over and embraced the pillow.
Lieb… If only I knew you are doing fine, that you sleep at nights and look forward to each new day, that you have plenty of reasons to laugh and someone whose heart swells at the sight…
That you haven’t lost the last broken remnants of innocence that day.
Shadows travelling down his walls announced the break of dawn and he felt sick at the thought of lectures, musty smell and suffocating silence of the library, with not a soul to talk to about it, to help him figure out how he could go from loving something with utmost devotion all his life to resenting it, and what to do with it now.
Maybe he would listen, even just for a while…
One thing he knew for a fact, however hard their monotonous professor would try to engage him in a discourse analysis, all he was going to think of this whole cursed day was the luscious curve of red lips made to be kissed numb and his desperate mantra – the Northern California dialing code.
Someone’s lying with me in my bed
Some stranger who don’t understand my head
Wish it was you lying here instead
He had never thought that, of all people, he would come to miss David Webster the most. The pretentious know-it-all, always wide-eyed and agape like a child in wonder, Christ, how Joe itched to punch that stupid mouth half of the time – the other half, when he wasn’t itching to shut it in another way… He’d never let the fleeting thought take a concrete shape: that of a soft touch, a breathless gasp, speechless awe in those large, deep, blue, ocean-like eyes.
Never until now.
He groped in the drawer of the nightstand for the smokes and a smudged saucer that had been abducted from its fellow dishes to keep Joe company in forlorn hours of darkness. What with driving the cab in the morning and till late night and working in the barber shop in between, he should have used the few free hours to get some rest, but he knew he wouldn’t fall asleep.
Not with all the dirty pictures that his mind, in its lovesickness, decided to paint him. They mostly involved certain parted lips quivering with pleasure, strong arms wrapped around Joe keeping him grounded, connected… He ran his palm over the front of his boxers, shivered, biting at the cigarette filter, and grabbed a handful of bedsheet, instead. He didn’t really want to come, which was highly unusual. His only reason for sex were frustration and need for release. This, whatever it was, felt different, and he wanted that spine-tingling tension to last.
He took a deep draw and exhaled with a sound close to a quiet moan. Silhouette underneath the blanket shifted by his side. Poor thing was used to sleeping in the smoke-heavy air, not that she had much choice, after all…
Absorbed in his fantasies, he forgot to flick the cigarette. Ashes dropped on the bedding; he brushed them off, cursing under his breath, and glared at the dark smears. Some good old bitching heading his way, come morning…
Suddenly, it sadly occurred to him he would never know what Webster might have to say on smoking in bed. He was quite sure it would be worth an exasperated eyeroll, a half-hearted “Jesus, Web, really…” and an ostentatious tasty drag (blowing smoke in his face before pressing their mouths together, because damn, they would be at it every night, Joe was sure of that as well). Something was also telling him David wouldn’t further whine about it or try to get him to ditch it, and maybe, in return, Joe would do it less often. Just cause. Web would deserve that much for not being a dick.
He caught himself smiling.
He was fond of her in a way, yes. Yes, she annoyed him. But it wasn’t that kind of fond annoyance he only felt around Webster.
It was a special bond - despite the rift between them, deepened by the month in that freezing hell, which made all their contrasts stand out even more. Still, for better or worse, Web was there: under Sobel’s reign of terror, all the way from England to Holland.
He was at Landsberg. He saw it all, he saw Joe Liebgott fall to pieces.
Joe didn’t remember much detail from that day, it was all one hallucinatory blur he refused to believe was real at the time, though the knot in his guts and reek burning in his nose long after he’d left that nightmare of a place were very much proving him wrong… But one thing he could clearly recall were those unreal eyes watching him with genuine pain that surprisingly didn’t irk him up, didn’t feel like pity or concern.
He held that gaze for a few moments, a part of him wanted to reach out and meet him halfway, but he didn’t know how, couldn’t find a single word that would have any weight, and Webster just turned away.
He stubbed the cigarette butt out on enamel saucer and lit a new one.
David was there, saw the worst of him. And he never reported, never asked more specifically about that shady order, never brought it up again. Although he disagreed, because of course he had to disagree, Joe felt that he understood, deep down. He’d heard about Webster holding the German baker at gunpoint – on a better day the image would have made him chuckle. So even he had a hard edge, underneath all those polished looks and speech and manners; he was however fighting a war, and they were on the same side: Web on his high horse, Liebgott in the dust and mud, but still, on the same side of hatred.
Now, he wished they were on the same side of love, too.
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hey, I hope this isn't too personal that it makes uncomfortable,but I'm kind of starting to learn about my sexuality and knowing that you're asexual I was just wondering how you figured it out, u know that ur asexual, and this might be the stupidest/longest question you've aver got but like if you fell in love with someone does things change and how did you deal with it?
No! It doesn’t make me uncomfortable at all. I know how tough it can be trying to figure things out and having someone tell about their own experiences can really help. This answer may end up being a little rambly (figuring stuff out was confusing for me and took years). This answer is long, so I hope it’ll help you.
If you have any questions, message me. I don’t mind talking about it :)
Basically, I never really questioned my sexuality at first. I grew up in a very open-minded household (my mum’s bisexual herself) and I always figured that I’d fall in love with whoever I fell in love with. If it was a girl, then it was a girl. If it was a guy, it was a guy. I never really experienced sexual feelings towards anyone, but I did like the idea of romance and intimacy (still do) so I figured it would come later when I met the right person. Sex was always taught to me by my parents and school as a natural thing that everyone will engage in and that you’ll start feeling those desires when you’re older. For me, I thought sex was weird (the idea of actually doing it or people actually having done it kinda seemed very weird to me), but it still interested me and I liked reading smut fics and having private me time ;)
When I had my first serious crush at 16/17 however, things got... complicated. He was a friend of mine from school and we began hanging out more during a school trip to America, at which point I began to slowly realise I kinda fancied him. However, even though I wanted to hang out with him and be with him and touch him (hold hands, etc.) and kiss him, I never thought about him in a sexual way (I tried once but had to stop after five seconds because... no). At that point, I had started to learn more about lgbt+ stuff (although my country is accepting, they can do a lot better in terms of education. basically all our sex ed was about heterosexual sex with one a few lose comments along the lines of “sometimes girls like girls and guys like guys” but nothing more in depth than that. The joke was mainly that you didn’t have to worry about getting pregnant.)
Nothing ever happened between me and the guy (we went on a double date once and flirted a little, but we were both too shy to do anything, and right now I’m kinda glad, seeing as I didn’t know I was asexual yet and having a romantic relationship would have made that whole thing so much more difficult), but it got me to question my sexuality, especially because I realised that even though I liked girls and thought they were beautiful and had strange feelings sometimes, I never wanted to have sex with them, but neither did I want to have sex with guys, making me question if I was bi again (which I am) (also, at this point, people kinda started thinking I was gay (friends and family), so that got me thinking too).
At this point, I knew about the asexual label, but I didn’t fully understand it (there was a lot of ace discourse happening back then, which didn’t help at all with making me feel like I was experiencing a normal thing). Having always been taught sex=love=sex, I thought that if you were ace you couldn’t have a relationship with anyone and would never be able to love anyone. I really did not want to be asexual, not wanting to die alone. Now, I know this is, of course, complete bullshit, but I was still figuring stuff out. I did find the gray ace label at that point, which offered me a bit more freedom, so I adopted that privately when I started university two years later, though I never came out to anyone.
At uni I came into contact with other lgbt+ people and we had a lot more academic discussions about gender and sexuality too, which made me question a lot of stuff again. I did more research on both gray ace and asexuality, and got more confident with the gray-ace label. On a holiday to London with one of my closest friends, I came out to them, and we talked and while she didn’t understand it, it did help me think about it more. That was the summer before my third year of university, which I would spend abroad in Edinburgh. Before leaving, I did more research on asexuality and got a more thorough understanding, and finally realised that maybe asexual described me better, so I adopted that label for my exchange year. There, I also didn’t come out, but I did more research and used the label privately for myself for half a year, before I finally came out to @chut-je-dors when I was certain it fitted me. I talked with her about asexuality and she kinda understood. That’s when I fully realised and accepted I was asexual.
Coming home that summer, I told my mum, who started to learn more about it too and then my step-dad. Then, last spring I accepted I was bi too, and that’s kinda where I’m at right now. I’m “out” in the sense that if anyone were to ask about my love life or sexuality, I would tell them, but because I’m generally quite private, I haven’t really told anyone else yet.
I’m sorry if this was rambly and i don’t know if any of what I told you will help in anyway, but basically, for me, it was a relatively long journey. I was lucky to grow up in an accepting environment, but still the lack of information and the negativity around asexuality really did not help me accept myself. I still struggle with it sometimes, but now I do like being asexual. I wouldn’t want to change it. It’s just who I am and I don’t miss it.
I did a lot of research on the internet (AVEN is a great resource, as well as youtube videos), and talked about it with people who I could trust, even if they didn’t know anything about asexuality themselves. But yeah, I really didn’t know I was asexual until I was 21 and even then, I didn’t fully accept myself completely until quite recently at 22/23. University was especially a struggle at times, because of certain courses I took where this kinda stuff around my sexuality came up, but it forced me to really look within myself and analyse myself and listen to what exactly i wanted, both in a relationship and sexually.
The important thing to keep in mind is that asexuality is a broad umbrella term and everyone’s experiences are different. People’s attitudes to sex are different, as well as if they still want a romantic relationship (I do, though I only experience romantic feelings for someone I have an emotional connection with) or not. Also, some things that you may be taught are sexual, aren’t necessarily that. I’m a very sensual person when it comes to romantic relationships and I love intimacy and closeness and touching, but actual sex is a big no for me (though I’m open for negotiations, as I may have forms of sex to satisfy my partner and for closeness with them, but it’s about intimacy, not sex. I can get it through other ways too). This means that my experience of sex is different from others, even if the act itself is similar. Lots of ace people also have kinks for example, but it’s about emotional trust and connection (or something else), rather than sex itself.
In terms of romantic relationships... I’ve only ever really wanted to date one guy and I didn’t. However, being in love didn’t change anything for me. I still liked him romantically, and I still see people who I fancy romantically or sensually or aesthetically. It’s just that I don’t want to have sex with them. However, as I’m quite neutral about sex, I’d be able to negotiate something with my partner if they want, but this depends on the partner as well as personal boundaries, which differ from person to person. Also, I didn’t really feel like dating anyone until last summer, because that’s when I figured out what kind of relationship I want. Now that I know who I am and what I want, i’m more comfortable putting myself out there and getting a romantic partner.
Asexuality can be rather frustrating when it comes to dating, however. It makes it a bit more complicated, because you have to be sure you’re compatible in bed as well. That doesn’t mean you can only date ace people when you’re ace, but it requires good communication. However, anyone should probably have good communication with their partners, so to a certain degree, I’d say it’s better because it forced you to do this. The important thing is to know what you want and what your boundaries are. But really, in terms of feelings towards another person, it’s not that different. I just don’t want to have sex with them, but I still want to be with them and do all the other stuff couples do. Sex is not a requirement for a good and healthy relationship :)
Aside from this, I had some very ace moments of walking with my friends in the streets and not noticing cute guys, because it’s not what I’m thinking about, or feeling weird when people bring up their crushes or sex life, because it seems so foreign and strange. Sometimes the idea that people actually have sex is still a bit weird to me. I just don’t have that desire with other people.
Anyway, I hope this someone helped you, at least a little bit. If you wanna talk more, please don’t be afraid to message me. Figuring out your sexuality can be lonely and I sure wish I had someone to talk about it back when I was first questioning myself. Just take your time and don’t worry too much. Stuff will make sense eventually.
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Hey op, I was wondering if you could give me some advice? High school senior here and I have no idea what to do with my life. Is accounting really as painfully boring as it's reputed to be? I'm a perfectionist and a good student and I feel like that might be helpful, but I've also nearly fallen asleep many times in math class. (I'm more a science and humanities person.) Is accounting actually as tedious and unfulfilling as people say? Do you like your job? Do you have any career advice??
Oh, no, advice ...
I've been sitting on this because I wanted to do your ask justice, and then it ended up extremely long - I'm apparently constitutionally incapable of giving advice without giving all the advice, just to be thorough. I started with my impressions of the accounting field and why I went into it (in case any of that resonates with you either way) and made it all the way to a probably-too-abstract meditation/ramble on careers, work, and purpose. Since I'm just a dumb 27 year old who is not entirely successful (yet) in any area of my life, you should maybe (definitely) take everything below with a grain of salt. But here are some things I think I've learned:
I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life either. I went to an engineering high school, but decided it wasn't for me because I didn't really care about it and wasn't spending my spare time tinkering with robots like some of my classmates. I almost majored in physics, but switched to accounting at the last second because I decided I probably didn't want to spend my whole life in a basement fine-tuning lasers.
I went into accounting because I thought math was boring but I was good at it, and I figured accounting might straddle the math-type-brain with the people-stories-humanities things that were more interesting to me. This is somewhat true - financial accounting is not math (thank goodness), but someone who is good at one will probably be good at the other and it is quite satisfying the way balance sheets always balance. (You can get into more math-and-statistics-intensive applications, but base accounting is just adding and Microsoft Excel, which is unironically one of the greatest tools humankind has ever created. How you feel about that opinion might tell you a lot about whether it's the right field for you lol.)
'Accounting' is really (at least) three entirely different types of job:
‘Industry accounting’ is the accountants who work for a business and keep track of its numbers. They record everything, analyze the data, and organize it into reports called financial statements, which are then given to the CEO, the board of directors, the shareholders, etc. to tell them how the company is doing.
‘Public accounting’ (as in Certified Public Accountant) has two main subclasses:
Audit, where you get hired by businesses to independently examine their financial statements and provide some verification that the managers who prepared them aren't lying or mistaken.
Tax, where you do taxes for people and businesses.
(+1: If you're a tech-savvy person, there's a huge amount of potential for crossover into technology work - data science, financial software, etc, etc. Though IT work has its own delights and frustrations.)
All three flavors of accounting require not only technical accounting knowledge but also at least some degree of business acumen to be truly good at (you'll develop this over time; I barely have any, the partners at my firm are very astute), and any of them can can put you literally anywhere, because everyone in every industry and lots of individuals need an accountant. (There are cross-state licensing issues that can affect how literal 'anywhere' is, so if you want to work somewhere specific that's a good thing to research in advance when planning out your degree, but even these are for the most part eminently surmountable). So particularly on the public side of things, it's a field that can expose you to a lot of different people and situations, and that's interesting. I like getting a glimpse of someone's life when I prepare their tax return. (I think I prefer individual returns to business returns for this reason, among others.) And if you're someone who likes business, it is a fantastic field from which to study it and could position you well for a more generally-businessy position down the road. (I have frankly found that I ... do not, so much. So keep that in mind when considering the rest of this opinion piece.)
All three types of accounting are, by their very nature, repetitive, in the sense that they're cyclical - you do the journal entries and close the books on one month, or you do a hundred tax returns and get through tax season, and then you do it all over again. Accounting isn't a field that really makes or does things - it measures what other people are doing, over and over and over again. It's a keeping-the-lights-on-and-wheels-running kind of field. It matters, because all three of those functions above are important in the context of our current economic arrangement. But some people are going to be happy doing that and some people are not.
Public accounting also has pretty punishing work schedules during crunch times. I can attest to that for tax (my current field), and have heard it's at least partially true for audit. This can be a good thing in some ways (I happen to like it), because it means there are some relaxed times as well - but again, some people are going to like the up-and-down rhythm and some people are going to want something more steady. (If you find this one isn't for you, you can always leave public accounting after a year or two and go into industry - that's what many people's planned trajectories are from the get go.)
In all three corners it's a field about developing expertise. You're doing something complicated for people which they don't know how to do for themselves, and you do sometimes get to come up with crucial information and/or creative solutions to help them. And in the broad societal scopes of public policy and the health of the economy, people having that expertise - in tax and its ramifications, in business, in financial accounting, in principled and accurate auditing - is important.
In a world where most of us regrettably have to do something for money, accounting is a pretty okay thing to do, and it pays money.
Being in the workforce for a few years has made me come to imagine a lot of things are tedious in some ways and important and interesting in others. Our incredibly complex global civilization goes because different people become experts in the minute, tedious details of their own different things, and then they all work in their own corners of the huge, infinitely complex machine. Tinkering with robots and living in laser-filled-basements are not that dissimilar to reading discourse over the minutia of the United States tax code. (These are all examples from relatively technical/'professional' career areas, because I don't really have first-hand experience with anything else (yet) - but maybe someone will chime in on that front in the notes.)
The extremely good news, which I can't emphasize enough, is that you're going to have a lot of opportunities to pivot, or change direction, or try different things, to eventually find the thing that at worst you don't mind becoming something of an expert in, and at best you absolutely love. I've already had three extremely different jobs, all of which have been very informative in terms of what I Do and Do Not like. It's surprising how often that doesn't line up with what I expected when I was younger. You might of course have a different experience - the point is you have plenty of time to experiment and find out.
But if I don't LOVE my career, isn't that terrible? Time for a confession, or something: I've always been an achiever-type, and in my youthier youth I would've answered the above question 'yes' - but in my first few of years out of school, whenever anyone would ask me what my future plans were, my answer was always '... I don't know? Try to get promoted, I guess?' I was really leaning on the external validation of what a 'good career' was without running that past whether it was what I wanted to achieve with my life. And over time that had a noticeable effect on my wellbeing. You're right that perfectionism will help, no matter what you go into - but you should be careful to keep an eye on whether it's really mostly helping your boss, and whether it's doing it at your expense. Don't get me wrong, this will make you a fantastic and therefore valued (read: employed) employee. Just be wary of it getting out of hand. (You might find you need to practice figuring out how and when to prioritize yourself even if it's inconvenient for others. I'm still practicing that now.)
Anyway, after a lot of reflection, I began to refine my idea of my capital-P Purpose, and it has little to do with working in a shiny fancy office or having a successful-sounding job title next to a well-known employer's name or really anything to do with accounting. Those things were only superficially rewarding. I'm working on rearranging my life to abandon some of the more costly ones to make room for my Purpose as I've come to understand it, and my license keeps me in overpriced coffees and, like, a house. It means even an occasionally disastrous person like me is doing reasonably okay (so far).
Some people love careers like that, though. Some people love living in basements full of lasers. It's really so individual. For me, it became clearer when I connected the dots between the things I kept coming back to time and time again, even in my most difficult moments, even years or decades apart. For other people, it might be very different.
But at the moment, you may not have all the information you need yet to make determinations about Purpose. Why would you, you're a baby; heck, so am I. It might evolve over the whole course your life. My main advice for you would be to just try something, or several things - whatever seems most interesting, or most practical, or ideally both! - and see how it goes. Like I said above, that will give you experiences instead of guesses, which will help you know. And you really do have so much time to work with. The most important thing, the thing I would tell my younger self, is to make sure that every so often you pause and honestly look. How do I feel about what I'm doing? Does it feel good because I like it, or because other people like it? Am I actually interested in building on and using the things I'm learning? Do I have a plan for the future? Is there anything about it I want to change, or add, or that doesn't actually matter to me? (And perhaps "What would I be doing right now/want to be doing in five years if I didn't have to make money?", because that might give you hints to what you want your money-career - if it isn't the same thing as your Purpose - to give you room for.)
Did I mention I think it's very individual? I think it's very individual. I invite anyone to add their own numerous-cents to this post - alternate takes on the accounting field (do you love it passionately? please tell this person why), additional career or life advice, etc. I'm just one person who's walking my one narrow path through the world with its particular terrain. Everyone's is going to look different.
P.S. Ask a Manager is imo an indispensable resource for getting a job - resumes, cover letters, interviews. Literally it has gotten me all my jobs.
It also gives a lot of great advice about what to consider in an employer and potential red flags - and I can attest that the culture of the company you work for and the management skills and style of your supervisor(s) matter more than almost anything when it comes to your day-to-day happiness in a job. This is part personal fit, part objective competence. It's not the end of the world if you take a misstep here either - it's something you figure out, just like everything else. You can do almost anything for a year - and you are NOT COMPELLED to even stay that long if it's really not working out.
P.P.P.S - and this is way out there ... I was exceptionally good at both reading/English and math as a young person - and it’s interesting that when that’s true, the careers people throw at you are all STEM-related. It’s almost as if people are predisposed to thinking STEM fields are more important, and that smart people belong in them. I have come to feel strongly that isn’t the case.
A lot of people (at least in my western/US culture) feel the humanities are an afterthought, but when I think about it, I think there are and have always been two main sources of human suffering in the world: nature and its limitations (hunger, health and disease, weather and environment, etc.) and other humans (war, murder, racism/sexism/all oppression and hatred, conquering and imperialism, poverty/socioeconomic inequality, and also elements of the way societies are organized that affect hunger, and health and disease, and weather and the environment, and so on).
STEM work is hugely important to making improvements in the first category, and helps with the second (it gives us the internet and weapons to defend ourselves from evil people who want to destroy us, for example). But a lot of the fundamental root issues in that second category are in the sphere of culture and the humanities - law and politics, sure, but those are derived from history, sociology and psychology, literature, cultural studies, philosophy, ethics, education, journalism, literature and the arts and pop culture (which informs and is informed by all of the above). The world needs smart people in those fields as well as STEM and business.
STEM fields often offer more money, or more certain money. Business fields offer sometimes significantly more. That’s a practical element to consider. And if you like a STEM thing, or a business thing, and want to go into it, please do and do fabulous things with it. All I mean is that if you find yourself considering a career in a humanities field, don’t be dissuaded only because people seem to think you’re too smart for it and would be better off doing something else.
#replies#accounting#careers#personal#p.p.s. if it somehow doesn't go without saying#my bullet-point AU is a highly cariacturized version of the accounting field#much the same way every TV show or movie set in a high school is a highly cariacturized version of high school#if any word of this has been helpful to you i'm glad#if not i apologize lol#you're going to have a great future!#there have been some very rough patches in my twenties and regardless i would never go back and redo high school if given the chance#it was fine it's just that even with all the tribulations#becoming a progressively adultier adult is better#if you have any follow up questions or like#ever need excel pointers lol#you know where to find me!#(seriously excel is legitimately delightful getting to do powerful things with it sometimes is literally my favorite part of my job)#(in another life I might've been a software developer)#(that life might be this life five or ten years from now who knows!)#(i'm going to stop and post this before I keep coming up with additional pieces of advice this is already so long)#(oh gosh i added another one it must end)#(also the read more got messed up and I can't fix it I do not know why)#(thereby validating that I am only a dumb 27 year old whose opinions you should not take very seriously)
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You needn’t ever apologize for how fandom discourse makes you feel. Fandom is shit most of the time anyway with their takes on characters. Vanya and Luther are vilified so much it’s ridiculous. They aren’t my faves but even so I don’t see how they’re hated so much. Well Vanya is either woobified or vilified and both takes are bad. She has issues sure, but none of them are perfect. Some stuff is out of her control so to hate her on it is stupid. And Luther? The moon memes may be (1/2)
I agree with you. I don’t even like Luther, but I can take a step back from my feelings to recognize his abuse and how it plays into his actions. Sure, I want to slap him in ep 9 and 10, but I can also see why he acts that way, and despite being wrong, he also deserves empathy and understanding just like the others. And yes, the “dad sent me to the moon” jokes always sat wrong with me. It was a torture and he suffered from it, and now he’s trying desperately to connect it with what’s happening in the present timeline, he wants to believe he wasn’t sent up there for nothing, so he brings it up a lot. We’ve seen how hard he broke down when he realized he actually was sent up there for nothing.
And for Vanya… it’s funny because at first I wasn’t much invested in her. I liked her and related to her, but that was all. Because I tend to be attracted to characters where there’s a lot of layers to analyze to understand them and their actions, and for Vanya, it seemed to me everything was laid out bare and very explicitly to understand her and understand how it came up to that point. But then I saw how the fandom treated her and some of them would make her up to be an abuser and a vilify her and it really surprised me ? Pushed me to analyze her more and now she’s one of my faves. Of course she does bad things, but just like the others. That’s the point of the show.
And for that last point you made… well, maybe it’s because I’m a psychologist, but even for those persons, we can dug deeper. I can’t say much of Reginald because he’s pretty much the cause of everything and we didn’t see enough of him to really dig more, but for Harold, it’s actually very interesting to analyze him. Because we can feel empathy toward him, or at least toward the child he was. When I say that, I don’t mean “we have to excuse what he’s done because he had a hard childhood”. He became a murderer, an abuser, and overall an actual psychopath unable to feel for others and centered around his own satisfaction. But I don’t believe people are just born evil, so I find it interesting to explore the hows and whys.
(I actually have a meta I want to write that compare Vanya and Harold and how one became an abuser (and worse) and how the other didn’t. Not sure it’d be well received though but yeah, most of my takes aren’t really welcome in the fandom so)
I overall love this show and how they changed from the comics (I like the comics too btw, but they choose another tone and another angle) to focus more on the psychological aspect, and I think they did it in a brillant way. They showed different ways in which abuse can affect people, they showed someone becoming an abuser and a murderer after his abuse, they showed people who became trainwrecks of human beings because of it, who sometimes fuck up and do bad things, but who are all (I’m talking about the 7 siblings) good at heart, but terribly damaged and still works in progress trying to better themselves and recover from their abusive childhood.
And the show did that in a sensitive way.
And this is why it’s so frustrating to me when I see most of the fandom seemingly missing this ? I try my best to learn from my past fandom experience and just ignore it and rant in private and don’t let it get to me, but when things are going badly in my real life, seeing those takes online tends to get to me more.
Anyway, sorry for the very long answer, and thanks for the support ^^
#the umbrella academy#vanya hargreeves#luther hargreeves#themys replies#sanitywasneveranoption#long post
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Are we too sacramental?
This is an era too conducive to a dreadful art: the thinkpiece. I am prone to the impulse to generate them, too, but mostly sate it with adding to a private collection of reflections — grand, uncompletable projects — or epistles to friends who are patient in receiving them.
Of course that is the defining art of the era, though. For many of us, there are fewer distractions from the underlying process, the thinking, and sharing one’s thoughts, and more than that one’s thought process, is the textual equivalent of an Instagram photo of one’s lunch, or at least the impulse is the same. In truth, a lot of the actual text is better than that would suggest, and the thinking is very good. It feels like that’s the kind of thing we should have been writing, and sharing, all along, the kinds of conversations we should always have been having, anyway.
Then there is, of course, the sense of urgency and importance which is imparted to everything which is attached to this pandemic, one way or the other. Our public health officials have been telling us for months that the matter of how we conduct our daily lives, how we gather, even in the smallest things, the most inconsequential, and certainly in many things that are casually dear to us, can be matters of life and death. Everything is imbued with this meaning.
The questions we have been asking, though, are not what we would expect in times of crisis. I am seeing rather less theodicy, rather fewer attempts to ask why bad or difficult things happen, and even fairly little engagement with the question of where God is in the present moment. Instead, the questions almost exclusively seem to be settling onto matters of ecclesiology and sacramental theology: should we change how we constitute ourselves as the Church; should we change how we mediate our sacramental lives?
What I find striking about these questions is that they are not so particular to our current circumstances as the discourse might suggest, and the solutions that are floated do not seem to be novel responses to a novel situation (which they are typically framed as), but are instead solutions and rhetoric which have been with us for quite some time. Milton Friedman notes that in times if crisis, change is possible, but the actions that are taken depend on the ideas that are already lying around. These ideas have very much already been lying around.
In my reading and experience of contemporary Anglicanism, at least, it is difficult to find challenges which are not responded to with the suggestions that we must look at how we organize the Church, and that we must look at how we mediate access to the sacraments. The most profound developments in contemporary Anglicanism, taken by how much we talk about them, would seem in fact to be matters of sacramental access. The ordination of women, the marriage of couples of the same gender, and the ordering of women and LGBTQ2SIA+ people as bishops at their core are matters of the question of who can have access to which sacraments, and how.
Other examples are abundant, such as the ongoing debate about just how open the practice of communion should be. These debates are all shaped by ideas that are lying around: advocates of open communion invoke these other matters of sacramental access to use settled matters of justice to frame a call for more justice, and to make clear which side is the right side of history. Even that framing, in terms of access and justice, is in a larger way an idea that is lying around: a social rhetoric which is abundant in our age, and which we cannot help but have strong feelings about, one way or the other.
Once something is framed in terms of an unjust barrier, then it is obvious that the barrier has to go.
So it is in the realm of ecclesiology: we have recovered a sense that the Church is not analogous with the institutional structure, but with the Body of Christ, the community of all believers. Along with this, ideas that are lying around about egalitarianism and hierarchy, even the outright distrust of institutions, shape the conversation. A flatter Church is the answer to many questions, even those which are not obviously ecclesial in nature on their face.
So this present moment comes along, when our buildings are empty, and it seems to suggest to us that perhaps having buildings was not such a good idea in the first place. This may well be true, but we must acknowledge that it is not a new idea: many of the proponents of using now as the time to eliminate buildings, or dioceses, or any other trapping of institution have been advocates for those same solutions all along. This does not mean that the ideas are wrong, nor even that the rhetoric of their unique suitability to the present moment is entirely wrong, but the present moment did not generate those solutions.
What is going on here is not that there are charlatans waiting on the sidelines to call for all of their destructive pet policies to be implemented under the banner of crisis (which is the context in which Friedman, quoted above, is often invoked politically to critique neoliberalism and tax-cuts-as-panacea.) We are all of us feeling squeezed, and are searching within us for ways in which our convictions can respond to the present moment, to respond to acute threats that we perceive. These convictions are by definition things that were lying around: if they were to appear spontaneously with no connection to anything else, they would not feel meaningful enough to us to matter.
We are all of us good-hearted Christians who are trying to seek the best for us and the best for the Church, but we are necessarily acting out the problems and solutions of the recent history of the Church amplified with the life and death valence that a global pandemic gives everything. The urgency is in a way very real, because the present moment is always urgent. Urgency, though, is not the particular character of this moment. We always have things we have to do for right now, but I suggest that the needs we are responding to now were already there, and are only more easily or readily voiced and named.
Some specific effects are particular to the present moment, but they feel like symptoms of a disease that was already there. Indeed, this is the point that those who are calling for ecclesial or sacramental change are making obvious. The solutions are already lying around because the problems were, too.
There is a spectrum of solutions which exists in the cluster I have hinted at here by talking about ecclesial structures and sacramental access, the furthest point of which is: the Church should never have been in a mediating role in the first place, as the sacraments belong to all of God’s people, and therefore everyone should have access to the sacraments, because otherwise their spiritual life is dependent upon the Church’s condescension to them.
Any part of that can be moderated, such as to suggest simply that clergy have an obligation to dispense sacraments through by any means necessary, or for clergy themselves to assert that they have the right so to do, regardless of what ecclesial structures might dictate. Adjust a few words, and you can eliminate sacraments entirely, or communal worship, or any other thing which has probably long been a source of frustration.
Each clause of that combination complaint and solution has more than a little truth in it in describing the dynamics of the life of faith, and certainly of a sacramental practice of Anglicanism. You can pick a starting point there and branch out to talking about the entirety of not only piety but Christianity writ large, and the problems of its practice.
So I will admit that there is one part that stands out to me in particular, and which I think is very much a problem which was already lying around. I have a solution, but I have to confess that it isn’t at all unique to the present moment, and it isn’t just a matter of getting rid of some meddlesome barrier, of eliminating some vestigial and hobbling ecclesial structure.
I find it troubling and unsurprising how much it seems to be the case that without access to sacramental worship on a Sunday morning in a beautiful building as part of a community, many are finding that they feel they have no spiritual life at all. That they are troubled by this is legitimate, and I am troubled, too. That we ever set anyone up for that kind of experience is a disgrace.
It is not, however, an ancient injustice of the Church which has ever and always been present, and which can be met only by changing those things which always were. Nor is it an injustice which only exists because of a global pandemic, but it is instead a cruelty which is particular to the moment immediately before it, to the latter half of the 20th Century and the beginning of this one.
The acute sickness here seems to be one of deficient formation, of a Christian practice which has been reduced to at most a once-weekly obligation to take part in a particular rite of the Church. That is what a spiritual life needs, and that is all a spiritual life needs.
I take no issue with a sacramentally-centred spiritual life, but the sacraments ought to be renewing of life, and transforming of the rest of life. They cannot do this passively, but only by all who participate in them carrying out into the world whatever scraps of Grace we manage to pick up at the foot of the altar. How could this not include personal prayer, and robust spiritual practices at home, and a million other things?
I admit, though, that my own spiritual life has at more than a few times felt like it was a matter of showing up for a couple of hours on a Sunday morning and nothing else. Where I have felt like a loon or a narcissist to think about about how my spiritual life the rest of the time might feel more substantial.
This comes from all sides. There is, it must be admitted, some awkwardness and even embarrassment in the practice of prayer, and certainly in any kind of home ritual. Our society tells us that such things are not productive, and thus are a waste of time, an indulgence. Without a community beside us, every thing that chips away at our resolve gets to ring out unopposed. Then there’s simply the matter of being self-conscious. And then there’s just the difficulty of setting a routine, of setting boundaries with the rest of our lives, to say that there are things we must do for our well-being, even if nobody else is making us do them.
These same flavours of distaste can come filtered through other lenses, too. Why, after all, would you waste your time praying when you could be out working to accomplish acts of social justice, being of service to others, rather than seeking your own spiritual pleasure? No, you can have a morsel on Sunday morning, and must subsist on that as you give selflessly to the point of depletion.
The catechist then necessarily finds it difficult to encourage people to take up such wastes of time and indulgences, and is certainly not well-equipped to answer those questions when they move from being interior uncertainties to external challenges. “Why should I bother?” Perhaps even going all the way to “You can’t make me.” None of us want to waste our time like that, so we have to feel like it is not a waste of our time.
We should be honest and say that most people in the world would find gathering for the Eucharist on Sunday to be, itself, an indulgence, a waste of time, and an unpleasant imposition, too. We, though, seem to like it. If nothing else, we are used to it.
There was a generation, still living, whose experience of the Church would be difficult for most Anglicans today to understand, because it was that Communion was an occasional thing at most, and not always a welcome one. It made the service longer, you see, and there was work to be done! Morning Prayer, though, was the appropriate way for a Sunday to begin.
Even in the sacramental practices of eras not very far away at all, some things which seem indispensable to us were not only dispensed-with but inconceivable, such as the Peace. I suspect we have all heard stories of someone who, when the Peace was first introduced, refused to have any part of shaking hands with anyone (and not because they demanded some more intimate sign.)
So I find it less that in our separation for what we were used to we should be demanding ways we can have what we were used to in all circumstances, but that we should never have been settling for a spiritual life that was so paltry.
I would never have imagined myself as describing the sacramental life as paltry, but it has become apparent that that is exactly what it can be. So, then: are we too sacramental? Do these rites keep us from a focus on the development of a satisfying domestic spirituality?
Well, they do not make us do anything. We do it to ourselves: as a community through poor mutual support and faith formation, and as individuals when we decide what it takes for us to be satisfied.
The sacraments are not superior to other modes of worship, nor even other ways of experiencing God’s presence. I have experienced more profound moments of religious ecstasy in a quiet corner of a darkened cathedral during Compline in the middle of the night, and in praying at my home prayer desk as I let all of my fears and longings pour out, than I could ever tolerate happening on your average Sunday morning. I have needed those moments, like I need to stand outside in a cold wind and to remember that God is with me. I need them like waking up to pray with my partner. I need them like a prayer before a meal.
I do not always do the things that I need. It may even be that I neglect them more often than not: they are certainly noticed acutely in their absence, even as it struggles to feel worthwhile as I engage in their mundane repetition.
If we are hurting because our spiritual life is barren without access to the sacraments we experience in body, in community, and with clerical presidency, then we should rightly be outraged. We should take that rage and offer it to the Church and offer it even more than that to God. We need more than morsels and scraps, but to feel like God is, as our Muslim brothers and sisters know, closer to us than our jugular vein.
That kind closeness is a need that is always with us, and that cannot be met with one thing (however glorious it is) one day a week (however holy that day.) We could dispense with the sacraments, or with the discipline in which we practice them, in order to free ourselves from having to experience that kind of pain, but that is like Otto Rank’s description of the neurotic as one who avoids incurring the debt of living in order to avoid the repayment of the debt in death.
I would rather have the pain and the ecstasy than neither.
And I refuse to accept a statement which I have often seen made of late, which is that Christianity does not have a tradition of domestic life and private practice, or that such things are incompatible with sacramental and communal practice, saying that one must choose one or the other.
It is true that the practice of a sacramental and communal faith can come at the expense of the development of a private and domestic spiritual life, but the emphasis there is on can. It is not the case that it must be so. When I think of robust practices of home spirituality, I do think of those low-church Anglicans who were prepared by Sunday worship to also be able to lead Morning and Evening Prayer at home, and to feel comfortable and pleased to do so.
I think much more, though, of Christianity before the Great Schism, and as still practiced in many corners of Roman Catholicism, and nearly universal to Christian Orthodoxy. I think of a practice of the sacramental which is so strongly for the life of the world that the blessing in everything is acutely apparent, is honoured, and is marked. I think of asking that a priest come and bless one’s home, and also of sitting quietly before a family icon at home. I think of praying with song (and without embarrassment) before going to bed. I think of reading Scripture for comfort, and to feel God’s nearness.
I think of that Celtic mode of Christianity which is marked with having prayers for everything one does. God is, after all, in all of it, and if we can make ourselves aware of that, then our hearts can be opened to something more real than the consumeristic, materialistic view of the world we are constantly inundated with allows us to see. This is what the sacraments are calling us to.
This is the work of mystagogy in the Church: to help us to see, by entering into these mysteries again and again, that everything is connected, and that God’s presence is with us always. This is what the sacramental life leads us towards and forms us for. It does not simply create for us a dependency, a craving, which we must meet again once it becomes too strong to bear.
Still, that last image resonates, too, because life is hard. We do need our scraps and morsels of Grace, and we should be kind with ourselves for that, and be kind with one another.
We must be fed enough on Sunday for other things to develop, and our communities must foster for us cohorts of practice who can support each other through the strange loneliness that haunts us all the days of our lives, and not just in times of pandemic. We are always facing life’s hardest moments alone, and we should be equipped to do so, but not have to stay there. The separation is, after all, an illusion, too: another thing we reject every time we have come together and declared that we are one Body in Christ.
The Easter we have been unable to observe together as we are accustomed to this year is, like every Easter, our bold assertion that nothing which seems to separate us from one another and from God can ever do so, not even death itself, and certainly not the physical distancing of this era in which we find ourselves.
Even if we do not share of the sacraments with one another in their outward signs at present, the mysteries into which they draw us are every bit as present: that we are not divided, that we are not alone, that God is not far from us. The challenges of this present moment are not new to us — they were always lying around — but if we find them intolerable in the moment, perhaps the problem is not that we are being denied access, because nothing can deny us access to God, but that the solutions we had lying around were inadequate.
Sometimes we really do require new solutions, not because they are novel or bespoke, but because they are untried. The reasons are many — they may feel silly or ineffective, or we may simply not know how — but they do exist. They might be waiting for us elsewhere in the practice of Christianity, but just as likely they are already present in our communities. There may be new modes, new things which are coming to us, too, but they are patterned on old things: the sacramental life, which forms us to see beyond the limitations of a fleeting world, and to the eternal reality of God.
May we all find the robust experience of our faith, and of encounter with the Holy, in this present time: in familiar things, and in unfamiliar things. May we know that we are God’s own, and that we are not divided, though we may experience only our own frantic wretchedness, and perceive only our separation. May our dissatisfaction draw us always to go deeper, into the questions, into the mysteries, which lead us to what was always true, and never fails. May God be with us all, and through God’s own extraordinary Grace, provide us with the peace which the world cannot give, and which cannot fail or ever be taken from us.
#anglicanism#christianity#sacramental theology#liturgy#spiritual development#faith formation#domestic spirituality#spiritual practices
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Ohhh, I lost a follower. Good note to start this off at. So! Anyways!!
I’ve vented a LOT about this in private...and I feel like maybe the reason why this keeps bothering me is because I never air it out where it’s been needed. I have never said my piece because, while I have a stance, I’ve been more afraid (in the past) of blacklash and how people would think of me. Which is dumb, I realize now, because people I don’t even KNOW have a way of thinking of me that isn’t good. So what’s the point in trying to care about stuff like that?
This is a long-winded way of saying that- although belated- I want to give my thoughts on the Age Discourse. (With potential ties to the Villain Discourse, but that’s only gonna make sense later into the post.)
Obviously, feel free not to read! I know that this community is done of the Discourse and I would like to be, too.....but I’ve also vented about this multiple times in my own server and I feel like if I need to vent about it again, maybe it’s time I do it in the place that’s been causing the stress in the first place.
With all that said, let’s get into it.
By Law of Canon, I have young F/Os. Most of which stopped at 17, due to series ending or no promised continuation ever coming to light. (Since some series, like DanganRonpa, had their main focus be high schoolers, but then Dangan Ronpa: Hope (the anime) came out, and everyone’s now canonly in their twenties to wrap up the series and move on to other things, same formula. Also: Naruto and Death Note.) This makes sense on the media side of it, since sometimes, you really don’t want to drag your shoes through all the nitty-gritty details. Who wants to hear about the whacky MC high schooler finding a day to day job? Afterstories? Psssshh.
....But then, there’s me. This little autistic kid who puts all their stakes into these fictional worlds and people. Who REALLY gets into it! This character likes me, these characters are my BFFs, and the rest.... Well, I’m just gonna take this world and make my own little story in it! Cause it’s fun!!! And in the eyes of fandom- at that time- I was totally weird, but made it okay. I got the right friends to support my self-inserting. Hell, it’s probably kinda cute for a kid to be so excited about this stuff.
Now I’m in my twenties. I made it far enough to find the community...and learned that most people agree that if your F/O is age locked, you should leave them behind. And I suppose that makes sense...if you can do that. If you can let go of those feelings and move along, happy at past memories.
......I can’t, though. Kurama’s always been my best example for this, cause he’s been the BEST showing of how my worlds have evolved past canon. His canon stopped him at 17. (Yoko is far older, but. Still, his physical body is young.)
I’ve had Kurama as an F/O for....about 12-13 years, maybe? Which might seem pretty young, but I’ve had.......childhood issues, to put it one way. A friend got me into the show in.....around middle school or so. I liked Kurama ever since.
In all these years I’ve had him, he’s strayed from canon’s end point. In my world, we age-match, if not him being a year or two older. Two kids and a house all our own; basically a large cottage with PLENTY of flowers and a lovely garden. There’s also a special greenhouse for his demon plants to take residence in.
I am not a “pedo in love with a 17 year old”......it’s a fictional character who’s my age. Cause I said so and canon wouldn’t let him EXIST past the ending of the manga.
And that’s what frustrates me so much. One, that my F/Os who canonly have a younger age, were never shown older. Why is it okay to have Naruto Uzumaki as an F/O- who GOT to age up in the show- but I can’t keep Alphonse, because FMA ended when Ed was 18, and not Alphonse? When his canon story ended....why is it suddenly not allowed for ME to finish his story? To keep writing it?
Secondly, because THIS AGE ISSUE HAS NEVER BEEN AN ISSUE IN FANDOM BEFORE!!!! Of all the fanfics I’ve read over the years, writing characters as older for story purposes has ALWAYS been a thing!! This character is older so he can be the CEO of a company in my AU fic. This character is older so I can show their friendships and relationships, and show how they changed after this important, canon events. I wrote her as older so I can show........whatever.
I could write a fic where me and Guzma are Pokemon, and nobody would have a problem with it. But no..... If I age up a character, I’m a pedo.
And I get what it’s supposed to be...don’t look at a kid, think they’re hot, and then fall back on “age up” as a thing. I get that idea, cause if an adult aged up Deku to ship with.......I’d be side-eyeing that. I fully admit to that one. My point is “how does this account for people who just want to grow up with their F/Os?”
Maybe it’s more nuanced than that and I don’t get it; it wouldn’t be the first time. (I mentioned autism offhand before cause I NEED people to understand that I’m seeking to understand this. I don’t get the connection. I really, really don’t. Maybe there’s something I’m missing! I wouldn’t know!) But as it stands, I just feel frustrated and all too often alienated. Because I know why I do what I do. It’s because of how I was growing up. I went through awful situations and went through emotional abuse at a super young age. I let people walk all over me and thought it was okay, because maybe they’d stay if I was enough. Nice enough, quiet enough....whatever.
I didn’t- and don’t- want to let these characters go not only for the life I’ve built for us and all of them......but because people have continuously left my life. I’ve always felt so, so alone and left behind... Fictional characters are the ONE constant that can’t be taken from me. And I need that.
....Anyways, I did want to tie this back around to the Villain Discourse, so as a sort of weird closure..... I see this as the VD. My example? Purple Guy. For some reason, I like him. Couldn’t properly explain it right now (not without going on another rant and this post is long enough as is), but I like him.
HOWEVER this does NOT mean I condone his actions in any way. I do NOT support child murder. I have siblings- little kids, themselves- and I know, if he was a real person, that they could be at risk. And I would LOATHE someone like that. They’d make me fucking sick.
But it’s a fictional character. He’s not going to hurt any real-world people. My sisters are safe...and I can goof around with a fictional, literally purple man as I want. Because I know where reality and fiction differs. I KNOW that there’s a difference between condoning actions and just simply thinking a character is neat. And that’s that.
#Aki speaks#It's the Discourse#Venting#DO! NOT!!!! REBAGEL!!!!!!!!#I'm in a Mood and wanted to say things#I hope this makes sense hhhhh#I have my exceptions but#for the most part it's all just.....weird to me#idk#I'm frustrated and in a weird mood#I might even delete this later idk
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