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ceescedasticity · 1 day ago

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Okay okay so.

DCU Batman canon Court of Owls (1) is waaaaay too similar to anti-Semitic conspiracy theories and (2) doesn't make sense. In so many ways.

If it's so entwined with Gotham's upper crust, how could Bruce Wayne never have noticed it? If they've been controlling Gotham all this time, why is Gotham so out-of-control? If unscrupulous rich people who spend a lot of time in Gotham can have people assassinated for free, why haven't they gotten rid of any of the Rogues who make life dangerous/really annoying and/or interfere with business? What even is the deal with that supposed "nursery rhyme"?

It's possible to rationalize answers for at least some of those questions, but it would just be propping up this way-too-similar-to-real-and-dangerous-conspiracy-theories thing, so why bother.

So what could it be instead?

Under the readmore, a lengthy discussion of how I would do it if I were to write a fic including it though anyone else can use it if for some reason they want to.

(tl;dr: a secret society too up their own asses to try to take over the country club much less the world, but still plenty dangerous to the vulnerable, and unfortunately they have a manual on creating superhuman assassins)

The Court of Owls can still fulfill most of its narrative purposes — certainly fulfill most of its fanfic-frequented narrative purposes — if it's stripped down into just a cult. They could be murdering, kidnapping, creating utterly loyal assassins, and planting agents in politics for no other reason than that they're a comic-book cult and they're Evil. They're presumably getting their money from somewhere but it doesn't have to be associated with Gotham's elite. Boring, but it does the job for Talon creation.

If we wanted a little more flavor, though—

It could be not a conspiracy but a "secret society" — something more along the lines of Skull and Bones, except obviously not restricted to college years. Add a dash of Bullingdon Club and the old Hellfire Club(s).

We get a bunch of rich people who want to LARP as Illuminati and behave transgressively without facing any consequences. Its members benefit from it socially/politically/economically because of the networking opportunities.

That is what most people who have heard of the Court of Owls think it is — solid networking and some wild parties, but also embarrassing, decadent, and likely to have covered up some manslaughters at some point, hopefully not recently but who knows; sex workers are leery of them. Probably "the Talon" is what someone dresses up as during one of their cringeworthy "ceremonies".

That is also what most members think the Court of Owls is. They do their networking and their partying and their LARPing, and don't pay much attention to how their hefty membership fee is spent. They think the uppermost echelons of the Court are full of those who get a bit too into the LARPing, which isn't even wrong. Being really into the LARPing is one of the criteria for being brought into the innermost circle.

Before I get into the innermost circle, let's discuss the "nursery rhyme":

Nursery rhymes as a rule are probably not actually coded references to real events. (Wikipedia on nursery rhymes — see Meanings section.)

I think if you want there to be an actual children's tradition of repeating this rhyme, there are two ways to go:

(1) It's an old rhyme and it's associated with a game. One kid is the Talon and they tackle anyone who speaks, something like that?

(2) It only dates back to the 20th century, where it's a song featured in a locally produced cartoon TV show or maybe a radio show. Maybe it's a cartoon about anthropomorphized mice and it's the anthem of the menacing owls. Whatever. Written by either a non-innermost-circle club member who wanted to enhance the intimidation factor or a non-club-member wanting to make fun of it.

Anyway.

The very innermost circle of the rich-people-club Court of Owls — I can see two directions to go with this.

First one is that the very innermost circle actually knows about an associated Evil Cult.

Second one is that they're sort of functionally a cult, but not exactly — they aren't trying to bring about the end of the world or anything. There isn't some god they're trying to serve or appease. They aren't trying to control Gotham or the world any more than they already control it. They're still networking and having fun by being Wild and Edgy and Occult.

Just, they're so Wild and Edgy and Occult they're turning people into Talons as an initiation rite/club activity.

—On second thought I'd prefer a little more intentionality, but imagine the extreme: a Court of Owls which is a student secret society with extremely fucked-up traditions and initiation rituals. Their frat house has a really high power bill because of all the Talons frozen in the basement.

A little more intentionality: They're old money and extremists, and we can tie in them being obsessed with Gotham's leading families though not synonymous with them — they're into eugenics, mostly but not entirely in that pre-scientific way where it's about Good Breeding and specific family lines rather than race as such. They want to Breed Better Gotham Rich People because… reasons. I said more intentionality, not well-reasoned intentionality.

They make Talons because (1) the Court of Owls has always made Talons; (2) the idea of having a superhuman assassin at their beck and call is really cool; (3) it makes for a killer initiation rite; (4) occasionally they can all agree someone is a threat to the Court and may be disposed of; (5) even more occasionally someone gets permission to use a Talon for personal grievances or advantage; (6) they're creepily into the power dynamic. Being into that sort of thing is one of the criteria for induction into the upper echelons, after all.

—Oh wait what am I doing with Talons.

Fanon Talons (a.k.a. what I've encountered like. 99% of the time in fanfic) are thoroughly brainwashed and deeply dehumanized. Their memories and identities are suppressed or just gone.

Sometimes the mental condition is partially or fully reversible, or may be reversible at some stages; more rarely the physical process is partially or fully reversible. (Usually this is the case when Dick is made a Talon.)

I haven't run into this as much, but sometimes the condition is not only irreversible but Talons are described as essentially already dead — destroying them is not killing.

(Optionally the Owls may abuse them for fun, but if you give an unscrupulous and cruel person total control over someone else that's not an unlikely outcome.)

From what I can tell from the wiki, canon Talons are (usually) loyal and devoted and follow orders despite any previously held scruples. This suggests some level of indoctrination/conditioning. We also know their training is brutal.

However, most seem to retain their individuality — they bear grudges, request assignments, take pride, and now and then go rogue. I get the impression from the wiki that they generally remember their pasts.

(The wiki does not mention pronoun usage. I have no idea if the third-person-it way of speaking is canon.)

Canon Talon recruitment looks like it aims for older teenagers. Most of it also seems to be nominally voluntary. They agree not knowing what they're getting into, and maybe under pressure from an authority figure, and they're not allowed to quit later, but they do initially agree.

The physical condition is reversible via Lazarus Pit, which probably means other methods would work as well.

Durability of the mental conditioning seems to vary from person to person. Some remain devoted and very concerned about failing the Court, however: One guy deserted entirely when he realized he'd been ordered to kill a two-year-old. Another broke away after feeling kinship with vigilante opponents and eventually making a friend. Clearly whatever they are doing is not very durable on at least some subjects.

An advantage of the fanon-style total dehumanization over the canon situation is it explains why they don't have a hell of a lot more desertions.

Maybe: Recruitment is usually targeted towards those who would enjoy being a superhuman assassin enough that they wouldn't care who they worked for. Maybe: There are actually a lot more desertions and loyal Talons spend 90% of work hours hunting down disloyal ones. Maybe: They're convinced the Court is doing good and important things. Maybe: There are other perks.

With a Court that is more a secret society than a conspiracy or a cult, it would be harder to convince anyone the Court is doing good and important things. Other perks are possible. A mix of targeted recruitment and eliminating a lot of failures is possible. The fanon approach is also possible.

The canon approach is much more compatible with a Haley's Circus that is, while sketchy, not evil. There's very little outright coercion and some recruits even stay in touch for a while. Everyone has plausible deniability and they keep desperately needed financial backing. —Of course you can make the circus evil if you want but I wouldn't go that way because it feels… disrespectful to Dick? As much as that makes sense.

The canon approach also works much better for William Cobb. —Sort of. Cobb's whole character is clearly someone who has an identity, who has aspirations and grudges. But it doesn't make a lot of sense that he'd get screwed over twice by Gotham's elite then turn around and become utterly loyal to an organization virtually synonymous with Gotham's elite????? Was that supposed to be a demonstration of the effectiveness of the brainwashing?

But with the secret society version, the Court of Owls isn't synonymous with Gotham's elite, and probably doesn't include the particularly stuffy elite like whatsisface Crowne. —It also works fine if the Court is just a cult.

In my opinion either cult or LARPing secret society version of the Court also works better with using a circus as a Talon farm anyway, because while some circus-honed skills could be useful to an assassin they're neither necessary nor sufficient. It's a weird choice for a conspiracy which actually accomplishes things.

(…Alternate Joker origin story: Court of Owls snagged a clown for a Talon and things went horribly wrong? —Actually I like that as much as any other origin I've heard.)

I'm seeing a couple of ways to go with this.

Option one: Fanon Talons. Haley's Circus has no intentional connection and very little knowledge of the situation; William Cobb was there before being picked as a Talon for whatever reason (maybe Whatsisface Crowne is in the Court and wants to get rid of him), and whoever decides Cobb's descendant will be the Gray Son decides the bloodline needs to incubate in the circus for some reason. Most Talons are picked from Gotham's lower classes. —Maybe the Court has a Thing about Cobb and goes for circus performers when it can get them?

Option two: Canon Talons. Haley's Circus is involved with plausible deniability. Cobb is probably the one who decides to incubate his bloodline there. Potential Talons are chosen based on how much they seem like they'd like it but there is still a high rate of attrition; cooperating Talons don't get a totally bad deal but non-cooperating ones usually get dead. In this model Talon!Dick would be dead if he was anyone else, but they're really invested in the Gray Son thing and keep trying to break him.

My inclination is generally to stick closer to canon unless I have a reason not to, so — I guess it would depend on what story I wanted to tell.

(As for the whole "Gray Son of Gotham" prophecy thing, either it was delivered by an associated cult OR it's some bullshit that came out of nineteenth-century occultism and then got taken seriously because the inner circle of the Court of Owls has delusions of grandeur.)

(Another note on the circus: I was going to say that one advantage of the "Court of Owls is a powerful conspiracy using Haly's Circus as a Talon farm" thing is that it does explain why this increasingly anachronistic circus is still operating, but it turns out it's not as anachronistic as I thought, I just live under a rock I guess. Traditional circuses still exist. Circus elephants were only banned in New Jersey in 2018. We don't need to have the Court of Owls intimidating regulators — though it helps if they're pouring money in!)

So that's Talons — not settled, but hopefully adequately considered.

(…If I wanted I could get super creepy with the intersection of the Breeding Better Rich People goal and the Pursuit of Perfect Specimens for Talons goal. That's optional though.)

Anyway.

I think this works pretty well at clearing up the questions.

Why didn't Bruce Wayne notice earlier? He made the mistake of taking what he thought was a weird social club at face value. He knew members might be up to no good and dealt with that in whatever arena they were acting in. Maybe he extracted people who were caught up in their parties. But he didn't realize they were engaging in human… not experimentation, they know what they're doing. They're engaging in Talon-making and stockpiling assassins even though they very seldom use them for anything but stopping other Talons. If their enemies die mysteriously they are assumed to have hired one of the universe's innumerable other assassins.

If they've been controlling Gotham all this time, why is Gotham so out-of-control? They've never controlled Gotham any more than any other rich people, they just like to play-act like they do.

If unscrupulous rich people who spend a lot of time in Gotham can have people assassinated for free, why haven't they gotten rid of any of the Rogues who make life dangerous/really annoying and/or interfere with business? Because using Talons for anything other than controlling other Talons requires a quorum of the innermost circle, and there's always disagreement about if it's the right time, and they can't decide anything and nothing gets done.

(Am I actually going to use this? I don't know! Maybe. Probably? I have some batfic ideas but I've decided not to post anything until I finish it or I finish Unforsaken, so possibly my energy will fizzle out first.)

#unsolicited fandom opinions #batman #dcu #writing babble #in that it describes my thought process #things i'm not writing #for the moment

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