#ineffable arguments

[crunchyyetsatisfying]

So did I

When I first watched S2 E1, I thought Crowley yelling the "So did I!" at Aziraphale during their argument over Gabriel was because he was really mad about Aziraphale wanting to help Gabriel. For one, because Gabriel had treated Aziraphale so horribly ("Shut your stupid mouth and die already", etc.) and because sheltering him posed a great risk to Aziraphale's safety. I thought, how unusual, we've never seen Crowley get mad at Aziraphale like this before, to the point of yelling at him. He must be REALLY upset by this. Now, having rewatched the season, I think that the reason for the intensity of his outburst in that moment isn't about the Gabriel situation at all. It's an expression of the pent-up frustration he feels at the stagnation of his relationship with Aziraphale, but is unable to put into words.

For millennia, their growing closer was always impeded by them being an angel and a demon and the threat of Heaven or Hell finding out. Then, in season 1, they openly break with their respective "sides" for the first time to thwart the apocalypse, successfully. After escaping their executions, they are technically "free". How free they really are is up for debate, because the danger is still there in the background, but they aren't forced to maintain appearances any longer. This was the biggest opportunity they had ever had to be able to live as they choose, be close and be happy together, to be on "their side". So then why is Crowley homeless, living in his car with his plants, instead of Aziraphale offering him a roof over his head? As Crowley did for him when his bookshop burned down? It's one of several signs that all is not well. They finally have an opportunity to become closer, but it's not happening how Crowley hoped it would. THAT is why Crowley remarks to Shax on the park bench: "What's the point of it all?" Not because he's bored without Hell duties, but because he fought with everything he had to save the Earth and be able to be with Aziraphale. Against all odds, he succeeded... for what?

The life we see in S2 is not what Crowley's idea of "our side" was. Let us remain hopeful that S3 will make some dreams come true.

[i-know-whats-happening-here]

Crowley is milliseconds before doing either one of these things:

Reeling off every single thing Aziraphale has done that hurt him, or pushed them apart over the years,

Or, walking over very slowly and quietly, to slip into a silent snuggle in the middle of the street. Tucking their head into Aziraphale's shoulder while the angel strokes his back calmingly.

Really it could go either way 😂

We've known about it for a long time...

Incorrect Good Omens Quotes Masterpost Part 1 : here

Incorrect Good Omens Quotes Masterpost Part 2 : here

[bipolargreen]

Our boy looks so done here 😂

[vroomvroomwee]

There's two wolves inside you

One of them wants to see as much fanart where Aziraphale is round and big and chubby and soft

The other one doesn't know what to make of it, since Michael is objectively not even that big, but people view his chub and exaggerate it as bigger than it actually is and it makes you feel bad for actually fat individuals and how they are perceived by society

And it's a constant struggle

[weird-an]

Aziraphale: Don't you think you could drive a little slower, dear?

Crowley: Remember the time you chose heaven over me?

[cliopadra]

You just know these two have the most contrasting and nonsensical sensory issues.

[sylwritesstuff]

"You need nerves of steel. And a hand as steady as the rock of Gibraltar."

[vyeoh]

I have to say, as much as I love the fix-its and the spiked coffee theory, the part of me that's the queer kid living in a homophobic and sometimes manipulative household wants to watch Aziraphale make that mistake fully on his own and grow from it

[wordsinhaled]

crowley is a genderfluid enby and aziraphale is transmasc and also they’re both massive lesbians and the plume created by their combined queerness can be seen from space. send post

[actual-changeling]

See, but there's something about the first fight in episode 1 that just doesn't really. fit. It very much feels like we are missing information here.

I have been thinking about this show all day, as one does, but in particular why Crowley gets angry enough to shoot literal lightning at a nearby building. We have experienced him upset before, but never to that specific degree, and their disagreement over Gabriel just does not explain it for me.

My hypothesis: a big, important fight happened right before season 2 picks up that left Crowley feeling rejected and Aziraphale neglected.

The biggest clue is the snippet of conversation about myself vs. ourselves.

"I thought we had carved it out for ourselves"

He almost sounds offended when he says that, yet Crowley reacts with equal parts hurt and anger, like he is referencing something that we, the viewer, do not have any knowledge of.

"So did I"

However, Aziraphale seems to understand whatever Crowley is referring to and does not respond with anything in return. Yet whatever wound they just opened keeps bleeding, and when Aziraphale tells him, packaged nicely, to fuck off, Crowley seems more sad than upset to me.

The to go? is almost said softly and with an initial confusion that hides a LOT of unspoken pain. Plus the HAND MOTION? The gesturing between the two of them while saying "oh, so this is how you wanna do this?" - call me insane, but to me that very much sounds like "oh so this is how you want to break up?"

The funny part is, if Aziraphale had simply shut up after saying "I want you to help me take care of him", I can GUARANTEE YOU that Crowley would have begrudgingly agreed. But he doesn't. He keeps going and this is the first moment this season where he is genuinely and truly bitchy.

"But if you won't, you won't" with the demonstrative sit-down and turning away from him, eyes forward. It pokes at whatever wound is still open and bleeding between them. Aziraphale wants Crowley to jump over his shadow and come help him, ignoring his boundaries. Meanwhile Crowley feels fundamentally misunderstood and rejected and wants Aziraphale to SHOW that he cares about Crowley more than he cares about fucking Gabriel of all people.

That he cares about them more than about heaven.

And now we have finally reached Crowley's breaking-point. he is so deeply hurt by what Aziraphale just said and did, choosing heaven over them, that the pain turns into anger because he has no other way of expressing or feeling it in the first place.

You're on your own with this one.

That last look is filled with such disappointed heartbreak, he turns around simply to give Aziraphale a chance to ask him to stay, to apologize, something. Yet again, he does not. He doesn't even meet his gaze, he is looking away.

To me, he seems almost spiteful, like this entire argument is only superficially about Gabriel but about something entirely else deeper down.

Which - that's the point, isn't it?

Crowley comes back and apologizes because Aziraphale matters more to him than stupid arguments or choosing sides, keeping him safe is the only thing he cares about when it comes down to it. He swallows down his hurt and betrayal and does what Aziraphale wants: ignoring the entire argument and pretending nothing ever happened so they can continue like before.

Only that they can't. The entire season shows just how much they cannot go back to their arrangement, no matter how hard Crowley tries to mold himself to Aziraphale's will. Their final argument simply reflects all of that and more. The same wound that first one was about gets reopened very violently and they're bleeding all over each other with no way to stop it because they're too fucking stubborn to admit that it exists in the first place.

Aziraphale and Crowley can only fix their relationship when they acknowledge the reason the rift between them opened up. Until then, Crowley feels truly rejected and Aziraphale feels entirely neglected, and there is nothing anyone can do to make them confront that.

[bullagit]

honestly it's just funny to me when people are like "aziraphale had to be talked into even trying to save the earth blah blah blah" trying to make him out to be a Bad Person. meanwhile in canon it took like, 1.5 conversations and less than a day because he DID want to do it and jumped on the first feasible idea.

and then they conveniently ignore that he spends the rest of season one actively continuing to do everything in his power that he can think of to save the earth, despite every obstacle and despite CROWLEY actively saying they should give up on that and run away together instead

(which all these same people conveniently... never seem to mention or frame as crowley being a Bad Person. the same way they never seem to try to frame him calling aziraphale stupid or his little "i'm leaving forever and when i'm gone i'll never even THINK ABOUT YOU AGAIN" moment as him being a bad person, instead suddenly being much more willing to sympathize and give him the benefit of the doubt. hmm go figure).

like he literally tries to talk to GOD up close and personal to change her mind. he throws down his uniform, refuses the war, and goes AWOL back to earth determined to save it, even knowing that he's pretty much signing up to lose EVERYTHING that he's built on earth for himself, even thinking he possibly lost crowley already by pushing him away, like.

when satan is en route to the airbase, wouldn't you know, crowley is the one who says it's over we're fucked there's nothing we can do and aziraphale is the one who says no, we can't give up now after everything, and gives crowley the push he needs to buy them some time.

i'll never say he's a perfect uwu bean or that he always goes about things the right way but like, this weird thing (especially post s2) where people try to project some different character onto him just never goes over. he's not self-absorbed or callous or power-hungry or stupid or too naive or completely selfish. fundamentally.

also he wouldn't take angel crowley over modern crowley. he loves crowley in every capacity and every form and through every change and tbh like. he understands that those aren't actually two completely separate entities, and crowley is one person who's been through so much and had to change so much, and he loves all of him.

their relationship is not toxic or abusive. they understand each other in ways nobody else ever will. they push each other to be better and appreciate each other for everything that they are, that they have been, that they could be, and they continually choose to come back to each other no matter what fight they have or challenge they face.

every day i gotta get out here like you know you can just like the character crowley better... and relate to him more... without having to twist around to justify it as some moral superiority thing. like that's fine and normal, to just like a character better than a different character and focus on them more.

[spaceskeleman]

You know that one scene in Nimona when Ballister and Ambrosius are meeting in their favorite restaurant, both full of tension, and when asked what they'd like, they both say, "Nachos," then continue on to argue? Well, I'm imagining a similar scene like that happening in Good Omens s3.

Zira asks for Crowley to meet him at the Ritz, Crow comes (of course), and flops down into his chair.

Before they can even start arguing, the server comes up to them and asks them what they'd like, and Crowley tells them Aziraphale's order on instinct- even if it is with more of a sneer than usual. "Slice of strawberry cheesecake with an extra cup of strawberries on the side. He likes them."

Or, alternatively, because they're regulars: The server comes up to them, cheerful as ever. "Hello, you two! It's been a while since you've been 'round. Usual order, I presume?"

A pause passes between them before Crowley answers, barely looking up at them, "No thanks. We won't be staying long."

Confused, the server looks at them. However, with their line or work, they've learned it's better not to pry and politely nods before shuffling off.

[beebopboom]

something something about Aziraphale in 1862 saying,

“I’m not an idiot, Crowley”

about what he presumed Crowley needed the holy water for because Crowley was being cryptic and his mind jumped to the worst explanation. He didn’t know all the information and he wasn’t going to risk Crowley.

and then in present day it’s Crowley saying,

“You Idiot. We could have been Us”

After saying that he understands what is being offered here perhaps more than Aziraphale does, presumably about what he found out up in Heaven.

plus back in 2019 Crowley saying,

“How can somebody as clever as you be so stupid”

about Aziraphale trying to get in contact with God and Crowley lamenting that God isn’t talking to anyone.

Interesting parallels there….even their arguments are routines.

[canarybell]

“Crowley suggesting to Shax that he might be the one to cast ‘a miracle only the mightiest of archangels could've performed' is a hint he was an archangel before” is a very popular idea, and I can see why. However, I think, a few things should be noted:

As far as Shax knows, Crowley, no matter what kind of angel he was before The Fall, inexplicably survived a bath full of holy water, and he specifically said after it: “If he can do this, I wonder what else he can do?".  In her head, Crowley does possess some unknown powers, which are not necessarily tied to his former status in angelic hierarchy; and in theory these powers might be able to produce such a miracle. We don’t really know how much about Hell’s trial Aziraphale told Crowley, but he definitely knows about the holy water trick, so it would makes sense if his bluff was based on it.

However, Shax didn’t really believed Crowley about it. She immediately started to make threats, spied on a bookshop, didn’t even wondered what that miracle could have been for….doesn’t look like somebody who was convinced by that lie even for a second.

Heaven on the other hand… no, they didn’t really believed Aziraphale in that he did that miracle either. But they didn’t dismiss it. Saraqael could mock Aziraphale however they wanted - but they sent an angel to check, and in episode five archangels did ask Muriel what they learned about the miracle, suggesting that Aziraphale could indeed have performed it somehow (even if ‘Gabriel did it’ was more plausible). Which…actually makes sense too – he also allegedly survived his execution, so the possibility that he holds more power that he lets on is here for him as much as it is here for Crowley.

So, I don’t think this particular moment proves anything - aside from the fact that at the beginning of S2 both Aziraphale and Crowley assumed that their little body switch trick would convince both Heaven and Hell they have a lot more to offer.

[p4nishers]

"aziraphale choose heaven over crowley–" i have a gun

[malewife-babygrrl]

Gabriel and beelzebub are yaoi, crowley and aziraphale are yuri.