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kanmom51 · 8 months ago

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This one is kind of personal and a lot mushy

(And as I'm writing this, a bit of a rant as well)

*Be advised.😅

Been a bit.

Well, I was kind of busy. On one of those 'once in a lifetime' trips you take to celebrate a big one, this one being my 30th wedding anniversary.

And while I was on this trip (and I am sure to share some pics, cause why not, seeing we got some spectacular ones) I got to thinking about Jikook. Because, who doesn't think about Jikook on their 30th anniversary trip, right?

Let's be real for a sec. Who doesn't think about Jikook ALL THE DAMN TIME?

Obsessed much?

Hell yeah!!!😂

Proudly admitting it!!

Look at those two:

Can you seriously blame me?

Nah, but seriously.

I couldn't help but think about who I am, where I've come from, how my partner and myself came to be, our love and respect for each other, how we fought through everything life swings at you and how our love not only survived all of it but seems to have flourished even more. I can honestly say that I love my husband today even more than I did when we got married. It's a different kind of love. A mature love. A love that survived many trials and tribulations. Some you know of when you tie the knot but many more you don't expect.

And thinking of us I couldn't help but think about those two young men and how they met, what brought them together, how they connected, how they have been through so much together, the hardships, the struggles, the amazingly good and the terribly bad, all making their bond even stronger.

There are those that cannot fathom how 2 young beautiful talented men could be in a committed relationship when they have this whole smorgasbord of beautiful people just wanting to lay a hand on them. Everyone wants a piece of them and here they are in a committed relationship with each other? A long term committed relationship? How ever could that be?

When you love someone to the core, which is exactly how those two feel (people can deny it all they want, but it won't change the facts, these two have chosen each other every single time over anything and anyone else), when you get to know that one person and fall deeply in love with them, know their ins and outs, know their flaws and issues, seen them at their best and at their worst. When they are happy or sad, healthy or sick, elated or furious, and find them attractive through and through, still want to be by their side.

No.

Need to be by their side.

Want to be there when they are happy, share their joy, but also be there when they are sad or down and stand by their side to support them through it (even with and despite all those flaws and issues and difficulties that at times can also infuriate you and basically make you want to ring their necks at certain points in time) there is no love (between partners) deeper than that.

I do know, we all should, that what they experienced and how they are living cannot be compared to us regular folk. Their circumstances are such that they have to deal not only with an industry and society that deems them as 'wrong' (that includes a big chunk of their own fandom btw), but also a lifestyle that is nothing like the one we know or have experienced. The hours, the cameras in their faces close to 24/7 (up until their break and hiatus and even prior to that during the pandemic - which btw is one of the reasons people have gone mad at that point given we stopped getting an influx of BTS content for such a long time), growing up and maturing in the limelight, enjoying the fame and exposure at first and then fighting for privacy and 'anonymity' when you realize there is a price to that fame. None of us have experienced that. Yes, we can find the similarities and by extension make conclusions about them, but at the same time we always need to remember that their lives are different than ours and that we cannot always hold them to the same standards of behavior that we are used to in our own lives and relationships.

This is beside the point that every relationship is different. I will just say this. A healthy long term relationship is built on 2 or more (I ain't judging) individuals that stand as their own person and chose to be with the other/s. They don't necessary have to have the exact same interests or likes. What they do need is to love, respect, trust each other and understand that part of that is allowing your significant other to do what they love, even if it means doing it without you. Even if it means doing it with someone else. You all know where I'm getting with this right? Going out with others, travelling with others, drinking with others, spending time with others, choosing to spend time alone without your significant other, none of them diminish from your relationship if indeed it's building blocks are solid. And brace yourselves (well, those that are in long term relationships know this already...), but all of the above actually helps maintain your relationship. Can make it better and stronger.

I've been lurking a little on SM, even while away, only to find that once again, or should I say still (surprise surprise... NOT) there are those that are doubting the bond that these two young men have. It's solos and cultists trying to create an alternative universe in which JK and JM are not close and even distanced (some would love for them to actually hate each other - good luck with that psychos). Or it's once again those insecure 'Jikookers' that seem to need that constant affirmation from a real life queer couple that most certainly will not be giving them that. I keep asking myself why is it that a couple like JM and JK need to constantly prove they are together (all while they actually can't come out and say it due to their circumstances - industry and society they live in), when a heterosexual couple, say Zendaya and Tom, for example, are not expected to? How come a blurry clip (which I still say is fake) released at a very suspicious point in time, together with other obviously edited clips and serious claims of misconduct that are clearly made up and were intended to cause JK harm, have more of an impact on them than years and years of interactions, talk, actions (including just before the clip was released and after it as well)? And now another blurry clip that people are going all crazy over. Like seriously, what is wrong with people? Is the lack of content driven them mad? No drama so we need to create it? Well, thing is that when you are in a healthy committed long term relationship there is not much drama. That's the way it is when you are settled and happy and know who you are and who you love and know that they feel the same about you. Arguments, disagreements, bad days - sure. That's life. But at the end of the day if people want drama they should go watch one on TV.

So, how do I put it to make is as clear as possible?

These insecurities we get from some of the fans, they work like clockwork. Every single time, in the past, when we didn't get much from the two there were these whispers and question marks regarding their relationship. Not even if they are still together, but down to the core of their bond, as to even question if they are close or friends. This phenomenon goes way back.

But since end of 2021 beginning of 2022, when they were on their break and later the hiatus into 2023 it blew up like a full on hydrogen bomb.

This got worse after they were assigned their own 'personal' IG accounts and went on their break.

The misconception by many that these accounts were somehow their private accounts that they use to interact with each other, I can't call it anything other than delusional. Sorry not sorry. And if people did not realize that themselves if only from the lack of posting or interaction with whoever, then we had the members themselves telling us that they regularly interact within their own private chat groups. That photos shared on IG with us have been previously shared with the others in those groups. These IG accounts were created to maintain contact between the members and their fans, knowing that the group is going into hiatus and that they will each be promoting their own individual solo projects. Yes, the group Twitter (X) account could be used for that, but there was an attempt to create a more 'personal' connection between each member and Army. These accounts were work, as simple as that, and them reacting to other members or talking with each other through these accounts was not an indication what so ever to whether they were in touch or not otherwise.

At the time, back in early 2022, when people were reeling over the lack of interaction between the two on their IG accounts I tried to explain that a. not seeing something most definitely does not mean it's not there (something those two made sure to prove time and time again over the past couple of years), and b. that the lack of interaction can actually be an indication to them spending most of their time together, as there is no need to comment on another's post when you are right there to tell them whatever it is you want to tell them to their face. Not to mention, and this part is all me, so take or leave it as you will, but some of said IG posts, well, how do I put it? I guess I just say it as it is... some of these photos posted were either taken by the other or they were right there or really near by when it was taken. There. I said it. In any case, the fact that these were the only two not to interact with each other in front of Army's face, out of the whole group, that, to me, meant they were the ones spending most of the time together.

Oh, and let's just address the whole fanservice stupidity surrounding those two once and for all.

If they were all about fanservice, how is it that since that during the break in 2021-2022 and then during the hiatus and their solo endeavors, we were robbed of said fanservice? Wouldn't you expect that the fanservice couple, the scripted couple, be pushed during each other's promotions? How is it that we have seen during these periods of promotions every single other coupling other than JM and JK. Even JK visiting JM during his rehearsals was heavily edited. How come, if we are being sold a fake bond? No JK being forced to go visit JM when performing at the music shows. No JM being forced to do the same with JK. JM paired with Suga for an add for Busan (? that one was really an odd one for me). When did we see them? So yeah, people can scream fanservice all they want, but deep down inside they know it's a crap claim. I won't even go into JK's lives. There was not one ingenuine bone in his body, and that excitement seeing JM's comments, that coquettish behavior while interacting with him (especially during the bed live, OMG!!!), the reactions to the JM centered content he CHOSE to watch during those lives, none of that is scripted nor acted. It's all JK. All him. And JM's reaction when JK shows up at his documentary viewing live, that little butt wiggle in his chair (reminds me of Bam when happy to see his dad/s, as shown by JK), the face lighting up, the genuine worry on his face talking about JK working hard (during another couple of lives), again, not faked.

So yeah, not fanservice.

I digressed, I think.

Let's get back to 2022 why don't we?

On their break these crazy stories of heartbreak and breakup and hate and suffering and god knows what, only all to be thrown out of the window as soon as we got to see the two together again during the Seoul concerts and then LV. Oh LV. That was a wild ride.

Then BTS went on hiatus and the solo era began. And we were getting less and less ot7 content, and once again the insecurities. These ups and downs (you know, the whole JITB party stories about them not being together - that was countered by the BTB that followed a while after), then Busan concert's high, then 2023's downs and ups and downs and ups and fruck it all, I'm sea sick from this stupidity.

Same exact stories were repeated in 2023!!!

Especially after THE CLIP "which shall not be named" dropped.

SAME EXACT TO THE T STORIES!!!

But again, I digress.

Insecurity regarding the two and their bond (seeing they aren't in the public eye) followed by realization that everything is as it was (if not even better and stronger) once we see them together again. And the reason we don't see them together while on break... wait for it... is because they are a private couple living their everyday life, not for the cameras, not for Army, but for THEMSELVES.

Who would have thought.

And when they are together, as in working together, either filming or shooting or performing, well their bond can't be hidden, as much as they might have to wind it down at times (which is mainly not when they are on stage hyped up on adrenaline, lol), seeing that this is still Kpop, with fandoms that feel ownership over them, not to mention them being a queer couple. You know. All the usual reasons.

This idea people have that these two owe us something. That they constantly have to prove their bond, their connection, their relationship. What utter bull.

Anyway, what a slap in the face (for some a good wake up call, for others a well deserved one) the news of them choosing to enlist together was for so many.

Bottom line is, repeated for the millionth time, that these two young men have shown us time and time again that when push comes to shove they will chose one another!!!

I feel like I'm all over the place here. Came to talk about my trip and ended up talking about fanservice and insecurity and god knows what. I guess it's the jetlag (yeah, let's go with that and blame it on the jetlag).

In any case I will go with my favorite saying as of late:

Why this whole long word vomit, you may ask (or you might not ask, who knows, lol)?

What the hell does this have to do with my trip?

Nothing...?

Probably, lol.

But I am going to try to connect the dots. Even if they did make sense in my mind when I first started writing this post and no longer do...

How about the fact that the two chose to take these trips together?

See how I did that? Connecting the unconnected?

Not even going to ask the egg-chicken question here, as I am quite positive it was always about the trips and the show/content for army was the excuse that allowed them to travel 'for work', and a little bonus of content for army when they are away - not to mention perhaps even an opportunity for a soft outing, who knows.

They wanted to spend this time together before enlistment.

We know of at least 3 trips. Connecticut, Jeju and Japan (the Jeju trip may or may not be part of that 'show').

We are yet to know what exactly this 'show' will be. Will it be an actual show, style BV or ITS? Will it be a Vlog? Will we be getting actual episodes or several minute clips? But one thing for sure. Whatever we get, it will be a drop in a lake of the time they spent together. They went on these trips to be together. They shot this 'show' to allow them to be on these trips. This 'show' will give us a glimpse, no more than that, of what they got up to while together. Bottom line - it's about them, not the show and definitley not us.

So yeah, tripping together (lol, as in traveling, just felt like using that fun word, which can mean so much more as well) is something couples love to do, and going on said trips prior to a huge life changing event (let's be real here, going into the military for 18 months, especially knowing that to be able to enlist TOGETHER, they will be placed in one of the harsher units and environments, knowing that even though they will be together they most certainly will not have the freedoms they enjoy prior to enlistment), well that is something they would do as well.

To sum this whole rant up:

I came here to show off some pics from my trip...

If Jikook are allowed to (and god help them all if we don't get that show eventually...), then so am I...

The scenery...

And the wild life

So there you have it.

I managed to talk about my trip and about Jikook all in one long ranty post.

To those that managed to work their way through it I have this to say:

#jikook #kookmin #minkook #jungkook #jimin #jk #jm

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am-i-the-asshole-official · 1 year ago

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AITA for being upset at how my former friends treated me?

tw: suicide and animal death

So for some context this was a very close knit friendgroup, for several years, of about 10 people, including me and my then partner. Also, everyone here is an adult.

Basically, one day I was in a really really bad place mentally. A beloved family pet was going to be put down soon, this dog had been a part of my life for almost half my life, and I was inconsolable and struggling to cope with this. During a discussion about some random interest I got too mean/harsh about it and it turned into an argument.

I know this was not justified and my grief wasn't an excuse, and I knew it then too and apologized to the people involved, and was met with overwhelming support, I was told "it's ok, we understand you're going through a rough thing right now, we're here to support you and you'll always have a place in this group"

Then my partner messaged me. They had not been part of the discussion at all, but they told me they felt hurt and wanted us to take a break. However, I misinterpreted that as a break up (combination of language barrier and me already being in shambles. This miscommunication is not something my ex can be blamed for)

This was an extremely serious relationship, we had been together for 2 years at that point and had a lot of future plans and such, so that on top of already grieving made me have a mental breakdown.

So, I vented on my personal tumblr. My vents did not mention/vague/allude to the situation at all, they amounted to "I feel terrible I can't do this anymore" and could very well have been only about my dog, or just about my depression in general. I also should point out that my ex doesn't use tumblr at all, so I didn't think he'd ever see those vents, and I certainly didn't want him to. And I also would not have reacted like that if I had known it was a temporary break. I know I still shouldn't have vented on a public blog, and it was hurtful no matter what. I wasn't thinking clearly at the time.

The next day, after our dog was put down, I sought support from my friends, but was suddenly met with "we're not impressed with how you've acted, get therapy, bye" and was kicked from the group. Several of them blocked me everywhere instantly.

Unbeknownst to me, someone had sent my vents to my ex and they had shown them to the others, and they'd drawn the conclusion that I was upset about a temporary break and was venting to try to guilt my ex into getting back with me. And not a single one of them brought this up to me. Again, we'd all been friends for several years at that point and this was literally the day after telling me I'd always be a part of the group and they were here for me. I couldn't even defend myself because no one would tell me anything, I asked many times but was told "you know what you did" even though I clearly didn't. I thought they'd all changed their minds about the previous day out of nowhere, or that this was because of (what I thought was) the breakup. I only learned what they actually thought much later. Oh, and my ex told me I needed therapy and he never wanted anything to do with me again (which is when I learned I'd been wrong about the breakup).

Again, I know me venting was harmful no matter what, so in that regard I am the asshole, but I still feel like there's a difference between what I did and deliberate manipulation, and surely people I'd been friends with for years could have spoken to me before assuming things?

So at that point I'd lost a beloved pet, my partner, and most of my close friends, within a day. So at that point I tried but failed to commit suicide, and was hospitalized.

While in the hospital, I didn't get a single word from any of my friends, except for one person. Supposedly, everyone had been "worried out of their minds" when they saw my suicide note. But not worried enough for a single word.

Even the one person who talked to me got extremely defensive and angry if I so much as implied I felt hurt by the group's actions. They even tried to hold it over my head how "despite everything you did X and Y were super worried about you" as if being worried about someone comitting suicide is some kind of heroic saint.

I asked to be allowed to talk things out with them, but was told "the others aren't comfortable associating with you", so I had to write a fucking google doc letter. I explained the situation from my perspective, apologized for my actions etc, but also made it clear that I felt hurt and didn't think their reaction was justified and that they should have at least talked to me first, and that I was very open to talking things out in person if any of them wanted to get back to me.

None of them did. Apparently they were writing a formal collective response letter to me. At which point I had enough of the silent treatment and said that if any of them had anything to say to me they could do so in person. Which made the group extremely angry because I was "silencing" them.

About three people got back to me, and all of their responses amounted to "we don't owe you an apology, our actions were justified because we thought you'd done something bad and we were just trying to protect [my ex] and the fact that you're upset about it proves you are bad" one of them compared me to their abuser.

They also said they'd been "having issues with my behavior for a long time now", I wish I could elaborate here in case it'd impact judgement, but I can't because none of them specified, and NOTHING of the sort had been brought up to me previously.

So. Again, I know I am the asshole to some extent, because regardless of my mindset me venting on my tumblr was still harmful, but I also feel like I was treated unfairly and cruelly by my former friends. AITA here?

What are these acronyms?

#aita #am i the asshole #suicide cw

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a-student-out-of-time · 1 year ago

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Despair Time Switch Theory: Definitive Edition

//Hey everyone, Mod Bubbles here. After many weeks of work, it's finally done.

//Ever since I first proposed my personal theory for Despair Time Chapter 2, the Switch Theory or Swap Theory as it's been called, I've both seen and received a lot of disagreement over it. Not just questions and disagreements over the mechanics of it, but points I've raised in relation to the other characters and the story's themes.

//Through all of that, it's become very clear that a lot of the points I've raised in my previous posts have either been completely misunderstood or dismissed outright, and it's resulted in a lot of misinformation about what this theory is actually about.

//And I'll be honest: I blame myself. I was too overzealous and I made a lot of incorrect conclusions and claims without having the evidence to back it up. Now that I've had over half a year to really sit down and think about this stuff, I've managed to hash out a much better and more structured theory, answering every question I've received thus far and then some.

//And because Tumblr now limits post sizes, I've put everything together into this Google Doc. Don't let the size intimidate you, most of it is due to the pictures I've included as evidence. I promise it's not too long of a read.

//In the end, whether or not you agree with me regarding this theory, I've tried to focus on what I see as key details not only for Arei and J, but the cast as a whole and story beats that I feel get consistently overlooked in other theories. Maybe you'll agree with me after reading this, maybe you won't, but either way, I do hope I'll at least give people more to think about.

//Also, I'd like to give some shout-outs not just to my friends who helped me with this, but some other Despair Time theorists out there whose work contributed to this:

@tophats-tea

@venus-is-thinking

@justanareikinniewhosatheaterkid

@1moreff-creator

//Even if we've had our disagreements over our various theories, I have to thank you all for getting me to think critically about a lot of details I either overlooked, didn't know about or didn't fully analyze.

//And if you can, please reblog this and spread it around so more people can see what I'm actually trying to talk about with this theory. I promise you it's much more than just hoping my favorite character is alive ^^;

//Have a great day everyone!

#mod talks #a student out of time #danganronpa despair time #drdt #despair time #switch theory #despair time switch theory

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nadinenc · 1 year ago

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I'm a queer Christian.

Here comes a rant!

(This is a queer-safe space; hate comments will be deleted)

So I've been in a rollercoaster lately. I've always been comfortable with being bi, even though I've been raised Christian. I was under the assumption that my environment was ok with it too; why wouldn't they be? I've never heard something bad and I haven't hidden me being bi. My family supports me and never thought of it as bad, though nobody can vouch FOR the LGBTQIA+ community on behalf of the bible.

And I've been struggling with being associated with Christianity, for obvious reasons. Most queer people get cautious when they hear someone is Christian, and we can't blame them. Christianity has a big, I might even say the biggest, group which includes people hating on queer people, thinking they shouldn't exist and actively professing their hate. I can't be part of that. I don't want to say I'm Christian and immediately saying "BUT I don't hate queer people! I'm one myself!" which I felt the need for and which I did. I don't want to believe in the God for me and being included in a group where a big part has values against me. But I still want to believe in God.

Cause the Bible is a tricky thing, you have to read it with care, from my point of view. It has been translated and it has metaphors and it's very context base. So I've learned to read the seemingly anti-homosexuality parts as a text against cheating, in any form. How can a book about love be against people healthily loving each other?

So. Under the assumption everyone was good with me being bi. Then, I was talking to my friend of 9 years about being associated with Christianity, when she casually dropped the bomb of not supporting it. She knew I was bi. I did not know she didn't support it. That hurt. I genuinely was scared for my safety for a split second. (I was still physically safe). We talked about it a lot then, and shared our point of views. I was shocked not everyone in my direct environment who I really care about was against such a big part of me. I told her it was a surprise. She said she can love me and still not support me seeking out that part of me. Compared it to drinking alcohol excessively. I really looked up to how steadfast she is in her faith, but I started to question everything. Does my God love me but simply not support that part of me? I thought about it a lot, came to the conclusion I couldn't be part of a religion that doesn't support love, that doesn't support these people, even when I wouldn't be one of them, even when I really want to put God first. I got emotional in church two days later and sought out the pastor, who then also told me it stood in the Bible clearly that it's not okay. I made a big "eh..." gesture, thinking about reading stuff in context. I didn't agree. I think the Bible can still stand for love, and the kind of inclusive love I want to support.

Then! My friend of two years who I also look up to in faith, and who is kind of feministic and agrees on a lot of point of views with me, told me the same three hours ago. "I can love a person and still not support that part." What do you even do in a friendship like that? When they are against such a big part of you, can the friendship exist? It'll always be in the back of my mind now, whenever I meet with either of them.

Can anyone (Christian or not, queer or not, but keep it queer-friendly!) please share their point of view on any of this? I am so lost here.

Waiting on the day I can find people who can vouch for the queer community on behalf of the bible with me. The only argument I have heard is passive or against. In favour I've had to figure out myself. I still have to figure it out. But I want to get there.

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dorothydalmati1 · 1 year ago

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Obscure Animation Subject #20: Time Squad

Originally posted on Twitter on January 20, 2023.

Created and directed by Dave Wasson, its about three dudes who try to keep time in place and not change. Not a bad concept for a time travel show, but in execution its not that good for its lousy writing and its corniness.

What makes it notable though is that its the first show to have the Cartoon Network Studios checkerboard clips logo, a logo fondly remembered be fans of Cartoon Network for its variant variety. The variant seen on this show can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/embed/fDaeGmxCACg

youtube

And with the obvious I mentioned, it aired on Cartoon Network and was produced by CN’s own studio. Each episode is written by Dave Wasson and Carlos Ramos. Michael Karnow also co-wrote the series except for episodes 1a, 2a, 3a, 6a and 7a. Larry Leichliter co-directed 7 episodes.

It did get a few nominations, but after 26 episodes of 53 segments, it was cancelled and forgotten about. I wouldn’t blame anyone including myself because this show is very generic and I even don’t remember watching when I was a little child. The animation isn’t bad though.

In conclusion, its not abysmal, but not worth your time either. You wouldn’t miss much if you skip it, but if your curious, try a few random episodes out for the hell of it. This is another time traveling show, and most time travel shows are intriguing, but this one is mediocre.

TWITTER COMMENTER NOTES: A user by the name of Brianna Brancamp said that they did enjoy the show, though did agree that the earlier episodes have weaker writing (the Trojan Horse and Robin Hood ones were notable examples). They said it got better after Napoleon, but said that Edgar Allen Poe is when the show soared. They did say that it’s okay if I think the entire show is weak, and that everyone has their own opinions, which is something I completely agree to.

#Time Squad #cartoon network #cartoon network studios #obscure animation #Youtube

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mountain-lion-gremlin · 1 year ago

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Hey I would like to shortly discuss something here.

Lately I've been talking about cults and replying to people who say we are a cult, and I would like to make my stance pretty clear on what I think.

First of all, I have never suffered at the hands of a cult, but I have ran into quite a few, done research on cults, and personally enjoy learning more about cults in itself. Doesn't mean I like - study it as a college course and things like that, its simply something I find interesting as a phenomenon and may be wrong.

Two, I am not dismissing or allowing cults to be forgiven for what they have done to people. I am generally optimistic, and believe in second chances for others, but I truly do not think that cults should be forgiven for what they have done to others. I don't think that the people who have encouraged and have caused harm to others because of their cult should be forgiven if they have done nothing at all to be better or prove themselves to be worthy of forgiveness. And do know that it is not me who will forgive these people - it is those who have been harmed by cults who should determine whether to forgive these people or not.

Three, I am not trying to shame, blame, or simply ignore what victims of cults have gone through. What you have experienced is absolutely horrible, and you are allowed to hate, dislike, or simply block me or anyone else if they talk of p-shifting/ if they are p-shifters.

Four, I want to make it understandable that many of us discourage, hate, or are as far away as possible from cults. Many of us within the p-shifting community will actively tell others of the dangers of cults and work hard to protect others from falling into a cult. Many, including myself, (but i can't speak for everyone!) Just want to exist happily without dealing with the exhaustion of arguing with others over such a small part of our identities. Cults disrupt that, and I want nothing to do with people who will readily forgive others, who encouraged cult-like behavior and took part in it, but have never dealt with being in a cult. (Its like someone saying that we should forgive groomers although they have never been groomed, nor have seen what they have done to people.)

Five, as far as I know, any group can have cult-like behaviors apart of it and be positive, uplifting, and NOT be a cult. Not every sign of a cult means that a group is a cult. (Please correct me if I am wrong!)

Six, I do not want anyone to think that I am encouraging cult-like behaviors when I talk of p-shifting. I personally practice p-shifting, and interject myself into conversations of p-shifting because I have seen p-shifting differently from what some people may have experienced. I am hoping to broaden the scope of beliefs and opinions so that people can come to their own conclusions. When I talk of p-shifting cults, I am not encouraging people to actively practice what they(the cults) have done and that it's okay. I want to show what they have done, and allow others to form their own opinions and learn - this is what cults do, and this is what is dangerous. P-shifting, in my mind, has always been something similar to shamanism, or is just physically expressing your identity. I may have not experienced what others have about p-shifting, and I have not seen everything mind you! If it is different to you, or if you see it as dangerous; alright, that's fine! I am not looking to attack anyone, and will gladly chat with anybody and allow myself to be open-minded to what others have experienced.

Seven, I have not p-shifted before. I teach what I have experienced (which is very little) and what I have read (which may be misinformation) and want everyone to know that I might be wrong. Take what I say with a grain of salt, always. I have never been within a p-shifting cult, at least never long enough to absorb their ideals and teach it onto others. I have always been sort of aloof and stepped back from what I read online and tend to only talk of what I've seen personally (which may exclude a lot of people! I do not mean it in any sort of way to invalidate or ignore who other people are.)

And finally, eight. I am so, very sorry if what I have said in the past has contradicted anything I have said here. I've got a human brain - sometimes I mess up or say things that are downright rude, patronizing, or horrible. I am trying to make things clear here (of my stance on cults, and the relationship between p-shifters and cults), so I hope at least it's working *sob*

I might expand this if need be, or if I see something that needs to have this readdressed. Please lmk if something is unclear, or if I need to cover anything else about cults and p-shifting cults.

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shy-lee-chu · 1 year ago

Text

I'm gonna let an honest answer here and I'm open to critism and discussion but be respectful please...

I read the full convo and I think I do see both side's point of view and here is my conclusion...

tw: gr00ming and child SA

PLEASE READ THE WHOLE THING

Ideally we'd want minors and adults seperated, on their own lanes and not getting involved in context where there is sexual explicitly. But honestly based on what I see and hear and experience. That can not always be the case. I see both sides and it's hard to say they're on the wrong ends tbh. Val is right on the "context matters" part. I do think not in all cases it's what it looks like again from my own experience. But according to what gil tells, the incident. It does sound like a situation to be freaked out about. I'd still like to see the whole conversation too to actually wrap my head around what exactly happened. But from what I hear, I'd put the blame on the adult. And think they're trying to take advantage of the minor...

However I don't really think val's on the wrong a 100% either. There are some contexts indeed that a minor and an adult can exchange information in conversations that can be beneficial for the minor or it can be neutral. For example as a med student I try to inform and educate everyone I see (yes that includes minors sometimes bc dude they do get themselves in dangerous situations, but yeah only in an informative and educational manner bc that's my job) about intercourse, safe intercourse and kink play if they're going to indulge in it and ask me about safety concerns and sources and how to, and safe and clear boundaries about intimacy AND when discussing intimacy with others. I do get into these conversations and advise minors and other inexperienced adults HARD on saying no and consent when they need to and telling onto their friends or an adult they trust if they indulge in any behavior that makes them uneasy and leaving them not feeling well or threatened. Bc I myself have a history of online and irl grooming unfortunately and in some cases I was easily manipulated and it was IMPOSSIBLE to say no, I'm sure many of y'all recognize the feeling. Also if for example, the minor wanted to exchange some nsfw material that they loved with an adult they trust, that's quite shady but it can also be a neutral experience. (Like sort of +".. did you see this and this? It was so good". -"Oh yeah I have, I agree that was hella nice", but no further discussion maybe) Tho I must say since we can't trust adults not to groom kids. It's not okay for them to interact in that manner. Just in case. Even if the minor is experiencing their sexual desires, it's safer for them to ask about that to a professional or do it themselves or people around their same age so they don't get manipulated. (Tho I must say there are definitely cases where minors can also have ulterior motives and manipulate eachother, I myself got manipulated many MANY times as 18 by someone who was 16 at that time which I recognized years later after I told people about my experience. So yeah, be careful in all cases, I beg you)

However you can't always trust who is going to be the good adult and bad adult, you can't really tell who can gr00m your kid and who can be a genuine caring adult. That's where we freak out which is totally and rightfully valid. Because in most cases it ends bad for the kid and adult actually has ulterior motives and the minor gets harmed by the interaction.

I however, also get val's point, yes no minor is that innocent, I myself talked to adults when I was 16 and also kept talking to my minor friends when I was 18-19 about kink topics (youngest of them were not younger than 15 as far as I remember and I stopped entirely later on, tho yeah they also can be older bc it's been years and I'm an old chu) (Bc we've been friends for years and I just couldn't cut them off and act like we weren't talking about these stuff before just because I stepped into adulthood, it kind of took me 2 or so years untill I matured enough recognized that we were not on the same scale anymore and understood that it had danger on both ends even if I didn't have bad intentions, so I now only talk to minors in said professional environments and cases) (Also I thought it was fine bc my experience on Tumblr talking to adults as a minor was mostly positive, I genuinely didn't know at that time that it could be a bad thing mostly bc of different counties having different online cultures I assume bc believe it or not it's still okay here 💀) And if they come to me to discuss kink, I kindly reject them and send them to talk to other minors in the community. Or yeah, I send educational sources and turn into my anatomy professor.

However, me and val share a similar cultural background and let me tell you, untill I got educated on this part my viewpoints were similar to the ones that my culture emposed. Because here, yes minors are expected to know they shouldn't be interacting with adults in that context so THEY also do get blamed mostly if they get into any trouble. They're expected to be mature enough for that, and people actually start to consider them as adults. (Is that right? Hell na, but does it affect the way you think and worldview to some degree? Hell yea... Some stuff took me a whole lot to unlearn) And they're teached to clearly say no in situations. And Yeah I myself also had a similar experience to val's talking to adults online. It was mostly fine. BUT that doesn't mean every minor-adult interaction is going to end positive and intellectual, especially in a mostly kink community. That's probably what Val meant as "context is important" I assume bc it looks like it to me, Val is also right to some extend on another topic, ideally the minor can be expected to know how to be safe online in order not to get harmed by adults. Again ideally, They should know how to set clear boundaries and communicate their needs and be aware of creeps before they even receive their own devices and start going online. But yeah in an ideal world...

However that's when them being a minor comes in, the brain isn't developed. Most of them don't have the enough experience on setting boundaries (and yes that's something thst comes with experience, it's not an update you receive when you turn 18 fellas, so please be careful, and see how you can set boundaries that you need and be comfortable in, practice it, if they don't respect those boundaries, they're not the right person for you to keep interacting with!) Some of them do know what they're doing is wrong, they just don't get to calculate the risks overall and objectively understand what's going on, if an adult is saying they're doing this for their good or they're buddies but they SA them, they can believe them, if they get threatened and the adult tell them nobody is going to believe them, again they can mostly believe it! (But no that's not true, if you're in that situation PLEASE do tell an adult you trust, I promise you it's better than keeping your mouth shut about it, P L E A S E) They can't tell if they're groomed or not, If the adult talking to them is genuinely thinking about their well being or they just want to exploit them and take advantage, Minors are mostly unable to comprehend that (How do I know? Was one of them and dealed with tons of minors that lied me about their age in order to roleplay many many times, some of them didn't even try to change or anything 🤣) That's where I think Val is a bit on the wrong. Yes she is right, some minors do get developed early mentally tho that doesn't stop others from being vulnerable and easy to sexually exploit and take advantage of. 18 is just an approximate number to be as sure as possible when giving teens proper responsibilities. Some people do get mature at 18, some people still don't. Here some people get married at 16 for example 💀🤢 (not saying it's okay or something but agree with it or not there are some people that do be in those circumstances) You all will see that too in your adult years. You're not gonna believe your eyes. Just saying...

So, If a minor insists on talking about sexually explicit topics, the responsibility should be on the adult to reject them. Because yeah, for obvious reasons I listed above. They might change their ages and insist, they might beg. The responsibility and the blame should still mostly be on the adult and adult alone.

I just don't know how to feel about exhanging nsfw comics and animes and whatnot. A part of me thinks it's okay and a part of me says it's a bit sketchy, I'm mostly confused on that part alone.

But, do I think Val herself is a predator? I don't. From my point of view, she genuinely looks like she thinks it's a grey area and she is talking based on her personal experiences and what she believes is okay and harmless. I don't think she is after minors or something. But yeah that's a heated topic all across the social media where I believe she can get on thin ice and easily be on the wrong. I do think she underestimated the situation gil told her, which kinda looks like victim blaming. Tho I don't think she did this to genuinely victim blame. It looks like to me that she was genuinely curious about how the conversation went and probably not might have considered that saying no is Hard and mostly impossible in some cases, especially in possibly manipulated minors.

So yeah I do understand both sides. I don't think gil is wrong but I don't think val is in the 100% wrong either. The situation looks shaky on my end that's probably it.

Please tell me what y'all think.

i didn’t want to have to talk about this but i think if such things can be admitted in a discord server, then the community can be told.

[screenshot explanation: @/vqler admitting to having sexual conversations with minors and blaming it on the fact that the minors “initiate it” .]

i will not let the admission of indulging in sexual conversation with adolescents be swept under the rug. this is not “drama,” this is a dangerous situation.

children and teens in the tickle community: do not talk to adults about sexual topics, even if they allow or encourage you to do so. there could always be ulterior motives. there are so many victims who have been traumatized in the tickle community due to adults indulging them in sexually charged conversation while they are still a kid. please don't let yourself be a victim.

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visceravalentines · 2 years ago

Text

All the Time in the World

Dilf!Bo Sinclair x AFAB!Reader

7.3k

Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4

Your regularly scheduled weekend tryst with your Southern gentleman is interrupted by your dad's fancy work party. Or is it?

Smut & fluff & just a smol dash of angst, age gap, dad’s best friend, semi-public sex, Daddy kink, oral, fingering, dirty talk & praise from both Bo and the reader (get it babe, pour filth into HIS ear), soft orgasm denial, creampie, cockwarming, light bondage, reader's parents get very drunk and reader drinks in moderation, reader wears a dress, she/her pronouns used, reader referred to as darlin', baby girl, pretty thing. If you need a pair of surrogate parents to imagine since they have a significant speaking role in this part, here is who I picture while writing lol.

Next Friday was going to be a big night.

Your dad had been spearheading a massive, important project at work for the last year and it had finally come to its conclusion. The company was hosting a gala to celebrate, with your father as a guest of honor. You and your mother were invited, of course, and expected. No chance of getting out of it.

“It’s stupid,” you said to Bo.

The two of you were on his back porch, getting an early start on the evening’s beer stock. “It’s going to take the whole night. They have an open bar and everyone always gets wasted at his work functions. My parents included."

“It ain’t stupid,” Bo said. “You’re just mad it’s happenin’ on a Friday night so you can’t sneak your ass over here after work."

“So what if I am?"

“So what if y’are?" He took a swig of his beer. “Come over Saturday. I’ll even stay in bed for ya."

“What a sacrifice."

“I’m a giver, darlin’, you know this."

You pushed his knee with your bare foot. “What’re you gonna do without me Friday night? Work on that Cadillac in the garage?"

“Actually, I got a date."

You choked on your beer. “What?"

“Y��know Maggie Harper two doors down?"

You rolled your eyes. “Bo, isn’t she married with like, six kids?"

“Ain’tcha heard, baby girl? I’m a homewrecker. Ruinin’ marriages and robbin’ cradles."

“If you go on a date with Maggie Harper, I’m texting Bradley from Gulfport."

He scowled. “Bradley from Gulfport’s gonna end up a cold case." You giggled. “What’re you wearin’ to this party? Bet I’m missin’ out."

“You are. It’s a very nice dress. Pretty low-cut. Slits up the sides."

“Damn." He shook his head mournfully. “Guess I better take you somewhere nice so you can wear it for me."

“I’ll send you a picture."

Bo shot you a mischievous look. “Would you do somethin’ for me?"

You regarded him suspiciously. “Depends."

He leaned on the arm of his deck chair. “Leave your panties at home and send me a picture o’ that."

Your mouth fell open. “You’re serious."

“Always, darlin’."

“You’re filthy."

“You bring it outta me."

“Don’t blame it on me."

“Ain’t nobody else around."

“My mom is gonna be there."

“Well you don’t have to show it to her."

You laughed, sipped your beer while you considered. “Alright. I’ll do it."

He grinned. “You’re the best, baby girl."

The weekend passed too quickly, as it always did, and the week flew by too. Friday afternoon, Bo flipped the sign on the shop door and turned to you with a sigh and the most forlorn expression he could manage.

“Dunno what I’m gonna do with myself all alone tonight."

“Don’t say that, you’re making me feel bad." You wrapped him in a hug. “I wish I didn’t have to go."

“Nah, it’s a good thing. You gotta support your dad."

“You’re right. Have to earn some points while I still can. Maybe it’ll cushion the blow when they find out you’re paying me for sex."

“Darlin’, I guarantee it will not." Bo kissed your forehead. “You’re comin’ over tomorrow?"

“Of course I am."

“I’ll pick up more o’ those snacks you like."

You smiled up at him. “You’re a sweetheart."

“Only for you, baby girl." He kissed you, long and sweet. “I’ll text you later,” he said with a wink and a smirk.

You got ready for the evening at your parents’ house. The dress really was something, black with a smattering of delicate beaded details, the neckline a deep V, the floor-length skirt long enough that even with the slit up both sides, you weren’t worried about the consequences of fulfilling his request. It hugged your figure in all the right places, made you feel sexy and confident. You wished he could see you in it.

Before you left your room, you tossed the pair of panties you would have worn onto your bed, took a picture, and sent it to him. Call it a teaser. He responded promptly with a single text:

Minx.

You grinned and tucked your phone in your bag.

The gala was being held at an upscale hotel downtown. You rode with your parents and arrived considerably earlier than most of the guests. You made nice with the introductions, smiled politely, retained nobody’s name, answered the same three questions about college until you were ready to snap.

The night had only begun. You were ready to go home.

Playing the dutiful daughter with nothing under your skirt was a new kind of thrill, you had to admit. It was probably better to sneak a scandalous picture now, before the crowd really arrived.

You snagged a champagne flute from a server’s tray on the way to your table, drank it too fast looking for a little extra courage. You’d never taken a nude in a public place; to be fair, there wouldn’t be much of an audience in a bathroom stall.

When the champagne was gone, you excused yourself and wandered through the building until you found a restroom a little ways away from the event hall. Naturally, the bathroom was impractically luxurious to match the rest of the hotel, brightly lit and opulent. At the far end from the door, there was a vanity with three low stools upholstered in velvet.

You considered this for a moment. Those stools were cute. You didn’t particularly want to take a picture of yourself straddling a toilet. Maybe…if you were quick….

Desperately trying to seem inconspicuous, you crossed to the vanity, double-checking each stall to be sure it was empty. When you were sure you were alone in the bathroom, you perched on the stool, pulled out your phone.

You caught a glimpse of yourself in the mirror. You really did look good tonight; it was a damn shame you weren’t going to see him until tomorrow. You snapped a couple selfies, made sure to get the dress and the way it hugged your chest in frame.

Then you adjusted your skirt, glancing behind you with trepidation. You’d had sex in a barn two weeks ago, you reminded yourself. And blown him at work on the clock. And fucked in your bedroom during a block party.

God, he was just stripping away your inhibitions right and left, wasn’t he?

You shook off the realization that you loved it and tugged your skirt up the rest of the way.

After taking a few pictures with your legs in slightly different positions, and then quickly readjusting your dress to salvage a little modesty, you scrolled through to pick the best shots. You could feel your face heating up as you examined yourself, but you knew he was going to love them.

You’d sent him nudes before, but only a couple times, and always from the comfort of your bedroom. No matter how self-conscious you felt, they were always well-received.

As it happened, he had quite the artistic eye when it came to the dick pics he sent your way. No grainy, overexposed, oddly cropped pictures where it looked like he may have just accidentally dropped his phone into his pants. No, you got well-framed mirror selfies, full-body shots with his hand wrapped around his cock or his thumb tucked in the waistband of his boxers.

They were worthy of salivation. He was always saying Vincent was the artist, but as far as you could tell, Bo was a born photographer.

The vanity had been a good choice. Hopefully he’d be impressed. You texted him one shot of your face and two of your pussy and called it a night.

By the time you returned to the event hall, he still hadn’t replied. You were slightly disappointed, but didn’t want to blow it out of proportion, so you tucked your phone away and jumped back into social hour with your dad’s coworkers. It absolutely necessitated another flute of champagne.

You were zoning out during your dad’s eighth rendition of the same story about golf, pleasantly floaty and counting the minutes, when he deviated from the script.

“Oh, here’s the guy I was telling you about, Bo Sinclair. Let me introduce you!"

The words hit your ears like a slap, sobered you up in an instant. You glanced up and sure enough, your smug Southern gentleman was crossing the room, giving Johnny Cash a run for his money in an all-black suit and tie, hair slicked back, gorgeous.

You didn’t even feel your jaw drop. He looked incredible. Moreover, he was here.

He greeted your dad with a smile and a handshake, then those baby blues fell on you. “Good seein’ you,” he said with gentility, taking your hand and pressing a kiss to your knuckles. “You look absolutely stunnin’."

Every drop of champagne in your body rushed to your head and every ounce of blood rushed south and you lamented the fact you were not wearing underwear.

“Sorry honey, probably should’ve mentioned your boss was going to be here,” your dad said.

“No, it’s – fine,” you said.

“’S alright, she doesn’t get enough o’ me at work,” Bo said brightly. “Thanks for invitin’ me."

“Oh, you had to be here,” your dad was saying. The rest of the conversation was utterly lost on you; you were too preoccupied with the scent of his cologne, how his shoulders filled out the jacket. He was handsome as hell in a suit. He played innocent remarkably well, only shooting you the occasional glance, the corners of his mouth twitching upwards every time.

Blessedly, the lights dimmed, signaling to everyone that the evening’s presentation was about to start. You, your father, and Bo returned to the table where your mother was sitting nursing a second – or third? – glass of wine.

“Mind if I sit here?” Bo asked as he slipped into the chair beside you.

“Not at all,” you said.

“Got your text,” he murmured. “Think I’m gonna need a closer inspection."

“Are you talking shop at the dinner table?” your mom interjected.

You could feel, actually feel, your soul leaving your body.

“Apologies,” Bo said with a smile. “Y/N was sendin’ me pictures of her friend’s truck, might wanna sell it. Looks real nice in the pictures, but I always say, y’never know ‘til you take it for a ride."

Your soul did in fact leave your body. Your mother did not seem to notice. Bo flashed you a wicked grin and nudged your foot under the table.

The lights went down even further and stayed that way as the CEO started her speech. You felt Bo’s fingertips brush your knee, squeeze your thigh. He winked at you when you gave him a sidelong glance, then folded his hands primly on the tabletop.

You slipped your foot out of your shoe and ran your toes up and down the back of his calf, stoically did not acknowledge when he looked at you.

Out of the corner of your eye, you saw him slip his phone out of his pocket, type something short. As he tucked it back away, your bag buzzed conspicuously. Your mom looked over, made a shushing face.

You focused on the CEO, tried to ignore him as he shifted in his chair. Out of the corner of your eye, he vanished. Seconds later, you felt his fingers on your ankle, and then his lips on your knee. You jumped, startled, and he popped back up from beneath the table, smiling.

“Tyin’ my shoe,” he whispered. You bit your lip and rubbed his spit off your skin.

The speech ended, the lights came up, and shortly thereafter servers began bringing around the first course.

"So Bo, how's my kid doing down at the shop?” your dad asked halfway through his salad. “Giving you all kinds of trouble?"

You stopped chewing, braced yourself for the innuendo.

"Aw, she's a delight," Bo replied. Your eyebrows went up. "Smart as a whip, friendly with the customers, real fast learner. Works harder'n me. I'd keep her around forever if it was up to me, but she's got bigger and better things comin' her way for sure."

He smiled at you, a genuine, affectionate smile, and you tried your hardest not to light up too much. “Thanks, Bo."

“Jus’ the truth, darlin’." He looked at your parents. “She’s somethin’ special."

"I'll drink to that," your dad said.

As guests finished their meals, many of them wandered to the wide-open center of the room where couples were dancing. Your parents got up from the table to join the handful of people already swaying in slow little circles, your mother admonishing Bo to keep an eye on you.

"You here all by yourself, pretty thing?" he said once you were the only two left at the table, scooting his chair a few inches closer to yours.

"You look sexy as hell," you told him. “I didn’t know you owned a suit."

"Thank you, darlin', don't get much occasion to wear it." He fussed with his cuffs. "Think the last time was at Les's weddin'."

"I can't believe you didn't tell me you were going to be here."

"I told ya I had a date."

"You didn't tell me it was with me!"

He gave you a sultry look. "Who else would it be with, baby girl?"

You gazed back at him with open adoration. "You can't just show up here looking like that saying nice things about me."

"Why not?"

"Cause there's no hayloft to hide in."

He laughed. “If you’re that desperate, we can get a room."

You shook your head. “I don’t think they rent by the hour here."

“Probably right." Bo stood up suddenly. “Why don’t we visit the courtyard instead?"

“The what?"

“C’mon, baby girl." He flashed you a mischievous grin, offered you his arm. “It’s real pretty. And real private."

“Bo!” you exclaimed. “My parents are here!"

“When are you gonna stop bein’ sensible and start trustin’ me?"

You stood up and took hold of his elbow. He set a quick pace around the edge of the room toward the door. “When are you going to behave appropriately in a public setting?"

“Darlin’, if you think I’m just gonna sit here and stare at you when you’re wearin’ a dress like that with nothin’ underneath, then you ain’t been payin’ attention."

You stole a wary glance in the direction of the dance floor. You couldn’t see your parents; hopefully they couldn’t see you either. “You are going to get us in trouble."

He tossed that damn smirk at you over his shoulder. Your heart skipped a beat at the look in his eyes, bright and smoldering with lust. “We can hope, can’t we?"

Together you stumbled out of the event hall. He slowed down in the corridor so you could keep pace beside him. He seemed to know where he was going, but the place was a maze to you.

Around the second or third corner, Bo stopped abruptly and pulled you to him, capturing your lips in a kiss. You thought about pushing him away for a second, only a second, before your arms were around his neck and your tongue was in his mouth.

“God, baby,” he breathed. “Wanna touch you so bad."

You slid your hands down his chest. “Then you better find that courtyard."

“’S around here somewhere,” he said, taking your hand and tugging you down the hall.

You rounded another corner and yanked on his hand, pinning yourself between him and the wall. He smashed his mouth against yours, hands on your waist, running up your sides to your breasts and down to your hips. Fiery, you angled your pelvis flush against his, so few layers between you. His fingertips worried at the top of the twin slits of your dress, pawing desperately at the skin of your thighs.

“Uh-uh." You pushed his hands away. “Not in the hallway."

Bo made a disapproving sound. “Then quit kissin’ me like that."

“Never." You pulled him to you by his tie.

He wrested his tie and his lips loose, pointed a finger in your face. “Now who’s gettin’ us in trouble?"

You grinned at him. “I’d kill to get in trouble with you, baby."

He groaned. “Y’promise? I got a gun."

“Cross my heart."

He buried his face in your neck, his kisses manic, and you tilted your head back against the wall in bliss until he sucked hard on your skin. You shoved him away. “Bo! You can’t give me a hickey!"

“I sure can."

“No you can’t!"

He smiled smugly and looped his arm around your waist. “This way, pretty thing."

To your surprise, there really was a door marked Courtyard around the bend. Bo held it open for you and before you could thank him for his chivalry, he grabbed your ass as you passed him. You swatted him away, giggling.

The courtyard was a large area of greenspace smack in the center of the hotel. A fountain burbled in the center and trees and shrubs were planted thickly among the pavers. A smattering of lamps provided wan white light, leaving ample room in the shadows for shenanigans. The early evening stars were hidden from view by the glow of the city, but the sky was a beautiful deep, swelling blue.

“How did you know this was here?” you asked.

“Went with your dad to a golf club happy hour here in the spring."

You winced. “I am so sorry."

“Me too. I hate golf. Drinks were good though."

Bo took your hand and led you to a secluded bench tucked away behind a pair of bushes. It was practically invisible from the door, but plenty of windows loomed overhead like half-lidded eyes. You were hidden beneath the trees, probably. At this rate, you’d be fucking in Times Square by Halloween.

He straddled the bench and you sat between his legs, adjusting your skirt. The cold concrete touched a bare strip of your thigh, made you flinch.

“How much time do you think we have?” you wondered.

“All the time in the world,” he said, kissing you again. His hand wandered from your knee up to the end of the slit in the dress. His thumb played at the inside of your thigh, tantalizingly close to your sex, lighting up the nerves in your groin.

“You look so damn good tonight,” he said. “Drivin’ me wild." You gripped his lapels, kissed his lips, his cheek, the scar on his chin. “Wanna make you feel good, baby girl. Let me make you feel good?"

“Please,” you whispered the way you knew he liked, drawn out and plaintive.

His hand slipped beneath your dress, fingers just parting your lips. Your back arched. His eyebrows shot up. “Soaked, darlin’. Bet you taste even better than you look."

Heat flooded your face and your core. You wanted to see his head between your legs. “Why don’t you find out?"

His lips curled into a smile. “If you insist." He leaned forward and gave you one last kiss before pulling away to kneel on the ground in front of you. He looked up through his lashes like a supplicant at the feet of a saint, hands on your knees, urging your legs open with reverence.

“Nobody in there needs to know you belong to me,” he said, pushing your skirt up and aside. “But I’m gonna make damn sure you know it."

Your fingers curled around the lip of the bench as he blew gently along your slit, following immediately behind with the tip of his tongue. Your breath hitched in your throat. He sucked at your clit, lapped at your arousal, strong hands holding your thighs immobile even as you strained involuntarily to close them.

"Don't you mess up my hair, angel," he warned.

"I wo - oohh." You gripped his shoulders instead, hips rolling.

“Bet I can make you cum before I finish spellin’ my name,” he murmured.

“Full name?"

“Uh-huh,” he said, open-mouthed, his tongue pressed against you. The vibration made you shudder.

You were so hot for him already, it wasn’t going to take much, but his name wasn’t long. You could hold out. “You’re on."

When his tongue dragged lazily over your clit in an unmistakable letter B, your toes curled and you moaned. He punctuated the initial with a merciless suck. The next letter was not an O. You felt yourself clench, ached for him to be inside you. The next letter was also not an O. You were writhing in his grasp and confused in the fog of pleasure.

“Bo…what – god – what are you spelling?"

“My name, darlin’."

“Your name…is two letters."

He grinned up at you in the dim light. “It’s Beauregard, baby girl."

“It’s what?"

“Beauregard Sawyer Sinclair."

Your mouth hung open. “…fuck."

“Think you’re about to lose a bet. Now I can’t remember where I was, so I’m startin’ over." He started over.

His middle fingers were knuckle-deep in your pussy halfway through Beauregard. You did lose the bet, somewhere around the Y in Sawyer. Head thrown back, you saw your own stars spill across the canvas of the sky, your helpless whimpers so soft and so loud in the open air. You melted back into your body with a sigh, blinking bleary-eyed as he sucked his fingers clean.

“You cum so pretty, baby girl,” Bo crooned. “Gonna be thinkin’ about those sweet little sounds when it’s just me and my hand in bed tonight."

You frowned. “You don’t want me to take care of you right now?"

“Nah, we best get back. You can make it up to me later." He winked. “Now, I got the worst knees on this side of the Mississippi, so you’re gonna have to give me about ten minutes to stand up."

He winced as he rose from the ground, kissed you on his way up. You fixed your dress and his tie, pushed one wayward lock of his hair back in place.

“Handsome,” you said, smiling.

“Shucks." Bo wrapped his arms around you. “Kiss me goodnight before we go inside." You obliged. You missed him already.

He held your hand loosely as you crossed the courtyard, tugging uncomfortably at his slacks. “Gimme a second, I gotta get rid of this situation."

You snickered. “I offered my services."

“You hush."

“Could’ve made you try to spell your name again while I sucked you off."

“That’s enough."

“I know what would shut me up, Beauregard."

“Alright then, smartass, I’ll prance in there with a boner and let you explain where it came from."

“Couldn’t say. I’m a virgin."

He snorted as he pulled the door open. “Get inside."

You held his hand until the last possible second before you stepped back into the event hall. Immediately you were searching for your parents. Anxiety seized you in its clammy grip when you caught sight of them seated at your table.

“There you are,” your mom said, slurring a little. “Where’ve you been?"

“Sorry, we went for a walk." You smiled what you hoped was a normal smile.

“Oh that sounds nice." Man, your parents could drink.

“When do you want to get going?” you prompted.

“Well, about that, honey,” your dad said. “The company paid for a room for your mom and I, sort of a surprise weekend getaway." His gaze shifted to Bo. “I hate to ask you this, but could you take her home?"

You didn’t have to look at him to sense the smirk on his face. You could feel it like a kiss on the back of your neck. “I’d be happy to." He touched your back, your upper back, nothing but propriety. “You just lemme know when you’re ready to leave."

“Now is fine,” you said immediately. “I’m pretty tired. And you know, I’m meeting…someone tomorrow to do something, remember?" The details of this weekend’s cover story were fuzzy but so were your folks.

“Right, right,” your dad said. “Have so much fun!"

“Oh I will." You glanced at Bo. “Shall we?"

“Of course, darlin’." He shook your dad’s hand, thanked him again for the invite; you hugged your parents and bid them goodnight and a good weekend.

It was a long walk back out to the hallway. No sooner had you left the room when he clasped your hand, brought it to his lips, and deadpanned, "I'll drop you at yours, then?"

You pushed him playfully. "You'll do no such thing."

"Who is the boss here?"

"I think it's me."

He scoffed, guiding you through the hotel doors with his hand on your back, your lower back, possessive. "I have the keys," he said as he produced them from his pocket.

With uncharacteristic speed you snatched the keys from his hand and danced away down the sidewalk like a dog with a forbidden treasure, skirt gathered in one hand. "Wrong!"

Bo gave chase without a second thought. "Ooh, you better pray I don't catch you, baby girl."

"What're you gonna do, spank me?"

"Somethin' like that."

You spun, flashed him a grin, prancing just out of his reach. "Can't wait."

He lunged and you shrieked with laughter, feinting away at the last possible second. You moved in the direction of his truck parked just down the street.

"This ain't fair, y'got twenty years on me," he whined, out of breath, hands on his hips like an exasperated Little League coach.

"Aw, what a shame." You jingled the keys in your hand. "Guess you'll have to walk home, old man."

He shot you a glare and then without warning broke into a dead run. He was unexpectedly fast, had evidently been holding back, and you let out a genuine scream as you scrambled for the truck. The pounding of his footsteps got louder behind you and the next thing you knew, he had you in a vice grip, whirled you both around so your momentum carried him into the side of the truck and you into his chest.

"Respect your elders, darlin'." He crushed you to him, landing one good slap on your ass.

You collapsed with laughter. "You're scary as hell."

He smiled darkly. "Nah, I'm a big softie." You went to hand him the keys and he shook his head. "You're drivin'."

"What?"

"Take me home, baby girl."

You'd never driven his truck before. He was protective of the thing, to say the least; washed it once a week, detailed it himself, refused to park it within six feet of another vehicle. "Are you sure?"

"I trust you."

You grimaced. "No pressure."

"None at all."

"If I'm driving, I can't blow you."

"There'll be more'n enough time for that later. Quit stallin', I'm ready to be outta this suit."

You opened the driver's door and started to climb in. Bo cleared his throat and you paused, frowning. "What's wrong?"

"Ain'tcha gonna open the door for me?" he pouted.

You rolled your eyes. "Of course, my bad."

Looking pleased, he followed you around the truck and stood back while you opened his door. "Why, thank you, darlin'. Y'sure know how to show a man a nice time."

You grasped his tie and tugged him in for a kiss. "Just you wait."

The anxiety set in with force once you got behind the wheel, but Bo put his hand on your thigh and gave it a squeeze. "Relax, you know how to drive."

"What if I crash?"

"Don't."

"But what if I do?"

"I know a real good mechanic."

With extreme caution, you pulled into traffic and drove five miles under the speed limit the entire way to Bo's house. He kept his hand on your thigh, thumb rubbing circles on your skin, and every time you glanced over at him he was gazing back at you.

"What's up?"

"Just admirin' you. Y'look fine as hell drivin' my truck. 'S like seein' you wear my shirt. Got me thinkin' thoughts."

"What kind of thoughts?"

Bo pinched his tongue between his teeth, dug his nails lightly into your flesh. "You just focus on the road, darlin', and let me worry about that."

When at last you parked in the garage he smiled proudly at you.

"That's my girl."

You laughed with relief and peeled your fingers off the steering wheel. "Can't believe you let me do that."

"Neither can I. Think you're the first, baby girl."

Your eyebrows shot up. "Are you serious?"

"'S a privilege I think you've earned. Y'did well."

You led him up to the house and unlocked the door with his keys. Just inside the entryway, Bo took your face and kissed you in earnest, his tongue playing at your lip.

Your fingers smoothed down his lapels. "Let's get you out of that suit, yeah?"

You kissed him sloppily as he shrugged out of his jacket. He pulled you down the hallway feeling for the lightswitch; you fumbled with his belt while he loosened his tie in the time-honored tradition of not being able to shed clothes fast enough.

You parted lips long enough to pant, "Unzip me?"

"Done."

He spun you around and eased the zipper down your back, peeling the dress open like he was unveiling a piece of art. His kiss on the nape of your neck sent sparks down your spine so hot they gave you goosebumps.

With a twist of your shoulders the dress dropped to the floor, leaving you bare from head to toe. Bo's hands were on your skin before the air was, cupping your stomach, fondling your breasts, his nose in your hair.

"Gorgeous," he murmured. "Get over here and sit on Daddy's lap, baby girl."

His fingertips brushed across your skin as he skirted around you to settle on the couch. You sat in his lap, leaned back against his chest as he hooked your legs over his knees, opening you up, exposed and vulnerable. You cast a glance to your right where you could see yourself in the reflection of the windows overlooking the backyard, curved against his body, Bo gazing smug and sultry back at you.

"'S a mighty fine view, darlin'." His gaze moved over your body like probing fingers, curious and hungry. "Hope someone out there's peekin' in to see it."

He cupped your breasts, rolling each nipple between his thumb and forefinger. You moaned, heat throbbing in your core in time with his ministrations. His lips grazed the slope of your neck, his chin parked on your shoulder.

"Pretty thing." He drew his fingertip in a line from your navel down to the top of your slit and back. Your skin hummed. "Can y'touch yourself for me?"

Without hesitation, you parted your lips and brushed your clit with two fingers. "Like this?" Your voice was breathy and higher than normal already.

"Just like that," he crooned. "Such a good girl." Your hips bucked against your own hand and you let out a choked, needy sound. You could feel him getting hard beneath your ass. "Who d'you belong to, angel?"

"You." His grip tightened on the flesh of your thigh. "You, Daddy."

"That's right." He caressed the crevice of your hip. Your brow furrowed as you felt his finger push into your slick hole with little resistance. "So tight, sweetness, how'm I gonna fit?"

"You'll fit," you breathed, rubbing tight circles around that most sensitive spot.

"You sure?" He squeezed in a second finger and you whined. "Think I might have to make you cum a few more times, getcha to relax a little bit."

"Whatever you want," you mumbled, bearing down on his fingers, gasping as he stroked your insides.

"Look at you bein' so good for me."

He swept the unoccupied fingers of his other hand across your mouth and you opened to admit his first two fingers, sucking on them with desperation, your head cradled in the hollow of his shoulder. You closed your eyes and moaned long, pulsing deliciously around him.

"Goddamn, baby. Someone better fuck you quick."

You made a pleading sound, mind fragmented between sensations, your own hand moving erratically across your clit in the face of his slow and steady rhythm. You could feel the ebb and flow of pleasure inside you tilting ever so gradually upward, felt yourself clenching just a little tighter, let out a pitiful, indignant whine when he pulled out of you.

"Aww, c'mon now, darlin'. I'd just rather y'cum on my cock, that's all." He withdrew his fingers from your mouth with a wet pop. "Lay down and keep yourself warm for Daddy, how 'bout that?" he whispered in your ear.

You reclined on the couch, teasing your sensitive clit as you watched him undress. He wrapped one hand around his erection. "Y'see what you do to me, baby girl?"

He bent low and kissed your forehead, laid his hand over yours and applied just enough pressure that you squeaked with overstimulation. "You trust me?"

"Yes," you said without hesitation.

The corner of his mouth quirked upwards. "Hold still."

He braced himself on the back of the couch, bent over you and reached down between the couch and the end table. You heard a jingling sound as he fished up a pair of leather cuffs, lined with suede and attached to a restraint system apparently running underneath the couch.

Your mouth fell open. "Bo!"

"Yes dear."

"Has that been there the whole time?!"

"Yeah, 's where it goes." You laughed, shocked. "Okay if I strap you in?"

"Absolutely." You were thrilled.

"Y'sure?"

"I'm sure."

Bo looked delighted. "Gimme your hand, angel." He kissed your knuckles before buckling the cuff around your wrist. "Too tight?"

"No, just snug."

"Perfect." He took your other hand, sucked your fingers clean of your arousal, kissed your palm, and secured your wrist. You gave them an experimental jerk. They were fastened firmly above your head so your hands rested on the arm of the couch.

"Now you want me to turn you loose, the word's crossbow, alright? I'll stop what I'm doin' and get you right out."

"Okay."

His gaze raked down your supine form and he licked his lips. "Goddamn, I'm a lucky man."

You tugged against the restraints, arched your back. The feeling of being at his mercy coalesced right between your legs. His fingers trailed down your throat, over one breast, across your stomach. His eyes were hungry and his hand stroked his cock almost absentmindedly.

"Gonna be so good to you, darlin'. My baby girl."

Bo sat at your feet, lifted your leg, kissing your ankle, up your calf, along the inside of your thigh, sucking at your skin til it left a mark. His tongue licked a wide stripe up your slit, made you quiver. You squirmed, gasping, pulling against the cuffs as his fingertips trailed ticklish over your skin.

He climbed on top of you, heavy and hot, kissing his way up your body. He lined himself up with your entrance and smiled a crooked smile down at you, eyes alight, before pushing into you slowly, so slowly, with a gentle kind of force, inch after blessed inch.

Your head rolled back and a vocal sigh slipped from your mouth as he filled you at last the way you'd craved all night. "Oh, Bo."

He groaned in your ear, his hands curled behind your shoulders for leverage. "Baby girl."

He rolled his hips and sent a wave of pleasure surging through you. With his full weight on top of you and your wrists immobile above your head, there was nothing you could do but accept each languorous thrust. You felt used in the best way, helpless, all his.

He fucked you slow, the swell of him inside you mesmerizing, every inch of his body pressed against yours, every tiny sound you made delivered straight to his ears.

You wanted to touch him so badly, wanted to stroke his hair and scrape your nails down his back. All you had at your disposal was your voice. He usually had the sweet-talking handled, but through the steady-thickening film of pleasure weaving around your brain, you decided to give it your best shot.

You nuzzled your lips to his ear and whispered, "You feel so good, Daddy…am I being good for you?"

His grip on your shoulders tightened. "Shit, baby, you're bein' so good."

"Do you like my pussy?"

He groaned. "I love your pussy, baby girl." His pace picked up, his thrusts gaining the slightest edge of desperation.

Your tongue grazed his jaw. "Are you going to cum for me, Daddy?"

Bo grunted, his nails digging into your skin, cock bottoming out again and again. "Y'want me to cum for you?"

"Please," you begged softly. "Please fill me up, please cum inside me, please Daddy I need you so bad - "

Bo choked out a whine, hips heaving, head snapping back, whole body taut and shuddering. You craned your neck to kiss and suck at his throat, the vibration of his waning moans satisfying against your lips.

When his baby blues opened they were glazed and staring. "...I'll be damned," he managed.

You grinned at him, pleased with yourself. "Was that okay?"

"I think you know the answer to that." He rested his forehead against yours.

"Better than your hand, maybe?"

He chuckled breathlessly. "A thousand times, darlin'." He kissed you, swept his thumb across your cheek. "I'm gonna let your hands loose but you ain't gettin' me outta that pussy anytime soon."

"Fine with me."

He unfastened the cuffs expertly with one hand and examined your skin. "Hurt at all?" You shook your head and he kissed the inside of each wrist. "Didn't faze you in the slightest. In fact, I think it riled you right up."

"Oh, it riled someone up." You took his face in your hands and kissed him. "Next time, the dungeon?"

"Next time, I'm gonna strap you to the bed and tease you for a good long while."

"You've got these under the bed too?"

"Of course I do." He gave you a sly look. "There's a lot under that bed, baby girl."

You brushed a few wayward strands of his hair back off his brow, combed your fingers through it to loosen the gel. "Show me."

"It'd be my pleasure."

"Show me right now?"

He laughed. "Alright, gimme a minute. I need a cigarette and a lil bourbon and then I'll show you what good girls get."

"Wait, don't go yet." You clung to him with all four limbs.

"Needy little thing, ain'tcha," he said affectionately. "'M not goin' anywhere without you." He bumped his nose against yours and worked his way onto his side. He slipped out of you in the process and you grimaced.

"Eh, cum comes out," he said dismissively. He tucked a blanket around you both, tangled his legs together with yours and cuddled you to his chest.

You frowned thoughtfully, drawing shapes on his skin with your fingertip. "Bo, what happens at the end of the summer?"

"Well then it's fall, baby girl, you ain't that little."

You rolled your eyes. "Not what I meant."

He smiled grimly. "You're gonna go back to college is what."

"And I won't see you anymore…."

Bo let out a long, quiet sigh through his nose. "I s'pose that's up to you, darlin'."

"Would you let me come visit on the weekends?"

"If that's what y'want, absolutely. I'd even come see you sometimes if y'let me."

You stroked the scar on his chin. "What do you want?"

His eyes clouded with some complex blend of emotions you didn't think you could coax out of him no matter how hard you tried. His face was so close to yours, you could see the flecks of darker gray that interrupted the pale blue iris.

"Don't matter what I want," he said. "You got a lotta options, baby girl. Bradley from Gulfport ain't one of 'em - " You snorted and he cracked a smile. "But besides his sorry ass, sky's the limit. Whatever you want." His smile faded around the edges. "Far be it from me to take anythin' from you."

You furrowed your brow. "You're not, Bo, you're not…taking anything from me. You're so good to me. You make me happy."

Something softened in his expression. "'S good to hear that, darlin', that's all I really want."

"Just because I'm leaving, it doesn't mean I'm leaving you. I mean, as long as you…still want me. If you don't, I mean, that would be…fine." What had started as a summer fling had somehow, so quickly, become something else, at least to you. You wondered suddenly if he felt the same.

It must have been evident in your face because he ran his thumb over your lip. "Hey. I want you more'n anything." He hesitated, suddenly uncomfortable. "You make me happier than I have any right to be, darlin' , don't you ever doubt that."

You murmured his name against his thumb, squeezed him tightly.

He tucked his finger beneath your chin and looked at you seriously. "But I need you to listen to what I'm sayin', because it's gotta be said. If you meet some fine young man or a nice young lady, and you wanna hold their hand at the movies or whatever, you don't have to feel guilty about it. You don't even have to give me a second thought, you just don't show up on my doorstep some weekend and I'll figure it out. You deserve - "

He faltered, like he was suddenly conscious of the words he was saying, of how many he'd already said. "You deserve the world, darlin', and it don't matter who gives it to you so long as somebody does. Maybe it's not me. But it better be somebody."

You gazed at him for a long time. "Are you done?"

He scowled. "You ain't listenin' to me."

"Bo."

"I need you to - "

"Bo, listen to me."

"Excuse me, I am talking."

"Beauregard."

"Don't you Beauregard me, missy, I'll leave marks on that ass."

"Bo, please!"

He gave you a look fraught with attitude, lips pursed. "Go'n then, it better be good."

You touched his face. "I just want you."

"Baby girl…." There was a desperation in his voice. "I don't know how to tell you that you don't."

You shook your head. "You're not gonna change my mind. I just want you."

He leaned his forehead against yours and sighed, frustrated.

"I get your point," you said. "I understand. I promise I won't deprive myself of this magical college experience you think exists. But I'm going to be comparing everyone to you, and they're going to fall short every time."

Bo said nothing. You could almost hear the war in his mind playing out, the clash of his desires against his better judgment, against whatever burden he held onto that made him think he was somehow not enough for you.

You rubbed the stubble of his five o'clock shadow with your thumb. "Let me come see you on the weekends," you said. "Or you can come to me. Or we can meet halfway in some shitty motel and pretend we don't know each other."

He acquiesced a small smile. "Sounds like my kinda date."

You grinned at him. "And if I meet someone else I can at least afford you the courtesy of a text, everything doesn't have to be so dramatic all the time."

He snorted. "Well I hope y'don't mind me sayin' I hope I never get that text."

"You won't." You kissed him. "Now go smoke or whatever, you owe me like five orgasms for that conversation."

Bo laughed. "What conversation? You ain't heard a word I said."

"Go!"

"Well you gotta let me up first, baby girl."

You rolled to the side and he rolled back on top of you. You stared up at him, memorizing the lines in his face, around his eyes, how his lips curved. It made you ache, the way he looked and the way he looked at you.

"Y'know what you mean to me, darlin'?" he said.

You put your hands on his chest. "What?"

Bo smiled, almost wistful.

"Everything."

Taglist at the bottom bc this is a monster post already: @vincent-sinclair-deserved-better, @slutforguts, @brandnewhuman, @fluffy-little-demon, @cypressnmarigolds, @slasherlouvre , @g0thl3zz, @frankiethedarkangel, @mad-girl-without-a-box, @likeacidrainn, @thatoneidiotlol. If you’d like to be added to the taglist, let me know!

#bo sinclair x reader #dilf bo sinclair #bo sinclair #slasher x reader #my writing #god they just keep getting longer besties #no one can stop me so don't even try

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opinated-user · 2 years ago

Note

I said it was slightly problematic at worst, but that’s because it is. You’re completely neglecting to look at what Lily actually did. She made a few jokes at the expense of weebs, which is a mockery of anime fans, not Japanese people. She made a remark about how it was weird to call ramen noodles as such, since that’s really no different than calling something like rigatoni “rigotani” instead of just “noodles”. She supposedly read and liked a book with racist stuff in it, but that’s not something with any evidence to it. To say what she actually did was racist or even bad could only come from arriving at a conclusion before seeing what actually happened.

I said that “at worst” statement before any evidence of her fetishizing black women was brought in, and I’m writing this before any evidence was brought in because it doesn’t actually exist. However I am sorry that I didn’t clarify I wasn’t talking about her supposedly fetishizing black women in that statement, I should’ve clarified more. Unlike their other accusations, saying Lily’s fetishizing black women is an extreme and broad accusation and to take them at their word without any actual quotes or clips or any actual reason to believe Lily did anything wrong would be immoral. What they gave wasn’t evidence, it was a testimony that doesn’t come close to aligning with reality. If Lily actually was fetishizing black women I’d completely agree, but she isn’t.

I don’t dismiss the proof unless it’s completely incongruous with reality. Saying someone did a thing isn’t evidence, it’s a statement that should be followed by evidence. Also I already knew about most of what she was talking about, and those which I didn’t are things I looked for proof on and asked for actual proof on. Given that whenever I did ask for actual proof they said “find it yourself” (which you can’t because the proof isn’t real), I’d say it was justified for me to not always take them at their word.

Finally, I should add one extremely important addendum. In her video on internet stalking, she mentions she’s been involved in some horrible takes in the past and holds nothing against people who remain angry with her because of them. Speaking as a non binary person myself, I found it alienating when she said “non binary people are, by their very definition interesting, and you (Rebecca Sugar) managed to make that boring.” since it treated enby identities as this fascinating and alien thing rather than just a normal thing people can be. I’m not angry with her about that, but I certainly wouldn’t blame anyone who was angry at things she’s actually said and done. Lily’s said some bad things, I’m not denying that, but what happened here had nothing to do with anything Lily actually said. It had to do with people wanting her to be the bad guy and finding every excuse to paint her as such. Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, and she deserves better than the rumors so many people propagate.

LO is a predator with multiple allegations of sexual misconduct that include, but it's not limited to:

-catfishing in order to coerce someone into sexual activity under false pretenses.

-getting nudes of a person without their informed consent.

-threatening to publish revenge porn.

-openly cheating an ex.

-pushing against the boundaries of her ex to do sexual art for her.

-taking advantage of a mentally ill disabled artist to make more sexual art of her.

-make a whole smear campaign about said artist when they came out about the situation.

-flashing on YouTube not one, not two, but three times. the first time wasn't even age restricted. the last time MO joined in.

-try to expose herself in front of a friend who didn't want that.

-seeking to invite a fan into her house to have sexual relations during a stream.

-not tagging lewd or NSFW content on her blog, where she knows minors follow her because they tell her, only after a lot of people asking her over and over to do so.

-sexualizing Ace characters specifically with non human creatures.

-sexualize shows meants for children with no warning, tagging or age restriction.

-expose her audience constantly to her incest fetish without warning.

-treating black women as "exotic zoo animals" and then dismiss it entirely in order to pain herself as the victim of the black people who expressed those feelings.

i'm sure there's more but this is what i thought off the top of my head.

if this was just one person i'be skeptical. but not when two of them have been presenting screenshots of what they went through with LO for years now, having zero previous relationship between each other, and the other LO is desperate to smear with a new awful claim that contradicts everything she said before, wishing death upon her in public.

i can't on good conscience chalked it up to a coincidence. not after seeing myself the way LO constantly crosses boundaries, abuses her audience and dismisses even the most valid complaint about her attitude with the ease of someone that is used to make excuses for themselves. you might feel comfortable dismissing entirely such claims without bothering to do proper research. i'm not.

if you came to know about LO and think the only reason we have these blogs is because of her bad takes and that you're going to help her defending her ignorant remarks, you'll be severely dissapointed and she won't appreciate whatever is that you're attempting here.

#lily orchard #lily orchard is a predator

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invinciblerodent · 8 months ago

Text

I've been thinking about what Iona might think/say about this line, and I think she would think differently from like... 90% of the people who heard this line, myself included lol.

Like, she disagrees, of course- were it up to her, she would have thought that letting the thief run free would have been the best choice, because, well, who cares, really. It was only a thing, and he was doing a job he was hired to do.

Like I'm not sure if it was in Mordenkainen's or another sourcebook, but I know it's mentioned at one point that elves typically don't care nearly as much for material possessions and theft as they care for sentimental items (it's got to do with being so long-lived and communal in general), they moreso pity one who would steal rather than blame them- and Iona herself already has a semi-questionable relationship with private property that's only tampered by her extensive time among humans. (In the trial, she just let Wyll "take the reins". She's not an idiot, she knows what hero-types expect the answer to be, even if she'd naturally disagree.)

But I feel like this line definitely would cause her to raise an eyebrow, because despite all that they have done to get here, and the talk they had over his grave about how the Magistrate he was is dead and buried, that... really sounds less like Astarion, the liar/thief/roguish scoundrel she loves, and more like Astarion, the Magistrate who ruled so cruelly that it cost him his life. So it kind of... slots into the empty space of the last missing puzzle piece in her head, which is the why of how he even got into his situation in the first place.

Like sure, he's said that he made an "unfavorable ruling" that the Gur didn't like, which is why he was beat and subsequently turned, but she had no idea what that could have been.... and at the same time, she didn't really care, about "Magistrate Ancunín". (It's been two centuries. She might not like this glimpse into who he once was, but as far as she's concerned, he's very clearly not the same person anymore- she saw it when they joined minds, she knows it because she knows the man he is now, and, at the same time, doesn't care much about the past. All that ruling is at this point in time is a line in an ancient record somewhere, and a stain on is his conscience- which, why'd it matter to her? Her own conscience is stained by far more immediate -and potentially more harmful- things, things that happened in a past that isn't even that far behind them, and he doesn't care, why should she?)

.... Though I do wonder what he'd say/think if later at rest, during their little nightly "together-time" when they're done with their trance but everyone is still asleep, she idly mentioned that she's been thinking about his words.

I think he'd get defensive, and insist that no, he does believe he's right, even as the seed that he actually doesn't now that he thinks about it, is planted. And knowing Iona, she wouldn't even try to correct/lecture him about it (not only is that not her style, telling him that he's wrong is also counterproductive as hell in getting Astarion specifically to see a dissenting point), but maybe she'd just coax him to lay back down onto her chest, and as the conversation winds down and he relaxes with his ear against her heartbeat once more, she'd just softly say something like "I hope the gods don't think the same, once our time comes".

And while her intention is not to change him or make him think like her, I think that's probably all he'd need to start questioning where that thought came from, realize what part of him was/is it that believes that on his own, and reach a conclusion that's more in line with the person he is now and the one he wants to be in the future.

(I love how she goes from being openly and intentionally manipulative, to now just... gently reminding her boyfriend once in a while that he can actually think before he speaks now, lol.)

Yeah, I...

I have absolutely zero doubt in my mind that there's a very good reason this man was beaten within an inch of his life based on a ruling he made as magistrate.

Astarion, darling, sweetie pie, love of my life, my sweetest, most darling little pookie bear with sugar and a cherry on top, what the ever-loving, super-sized, finger-lickin', country-fried McFuck is wrong with you (affectionate)

haven't you personally expressed feelings of guilt (their validity being subject for philosophical debate i don't have time to go into now) over dooming people in numbers upwards of a thousand to what you had thought was death, but later on it turned out to be a fate potentially worse than death. have you not personally yelled at the Gur leader because she got upset over us sparing the 7k spawn. have you learned absolutely fucking nothing, my sweet sweet angel boy.

god I love you and the odd turns your poor little brain takes sometimes as it reacquaints itself with the idea of being a person, rather than a survival-machine.

(it's also really fun how sometimes thoughts that could be attributed to the "living" Astarion pop up- because I'm guessing this is one of those, and he's kind of... well. He hasn't been allowed to use his own brain much since he became a vampire, so it's understandable why, now that he's free, his brain would sort of revert to the last thing it knows- which is punitive justice.)

(I definitely know that having Magistrate Ancunín pass judgement on you would have definitely been one of the less desirable outcomes of any legal squabble in Baldur's Gate two centuries ago. I know Iona is sort of letting these drift by her ear for now, putting the thought aside to be dissected later, lol. She'd rather more like to speak to the soft Astarion cuddling into her chest at night about this, please and thank you.)

#squirrel plays bg3 #oc: iona raedir #basically.....#astarion: *says fucked up thing*#iona: that's cool babe! it'd be kinda fucked if it happened to us though lol #astarion: *....quietly reassesses worldview*

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wlwcarries · 4 years ago

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i'm becoming more and more convinced that charlie's dms are real. i’m going to give you guys the evidence there is so far, for you all to make your own conclusions. personally, as much as i hate to say it, i think the dms are real.

i want to preface this by saying that i hoped as much as everyone else that the screenshots were fake. i honestly debated even posting about it at this point because everyone seems to have made their peace that they’re fabricated and moved on, and i don’t want to start or rehash anything. i promise you, i hated making this post as much as you guys are probably going to hate reading this. but i feel like we as a fandom deserve to know and address the truth, and choosing to ignore this will only do more harm than good.

there are two tiktoks showing proof of the messages: here and here

it’s pretty clear imo that charlie sent those messages in that group chat. there’s publicly available information proving a lot of what i’m going to talk about, but i’m not going to expose anyone especially since a lot of the people involved are minors. if you want to talk more about it, feel free to dm me but i’m not going to post anything publicly beyond those tiktoks.

so yeah. charlie talked about smut in a group chat with at least one confirmed minor as far as we know. in the screenshot you can see that someone explained what smut was to him, and then he continued on talking about the explicit fic.

i know that a lot of us on here, myself included, love to harp on l*lex shippers, and while the racism involved with the ship should by no means pushed aside that's also not my biggest concern at the moment. a lot of these people are young teenage girls and there’s a clear power imbalance involved. they’re fans, and he’s an adult man who they look up to. yes, they shouldn’t have sent the fic to him in the first place, but charlie’s an adult and should have known better than to encourage this. this is on him. he really can’t see that interacting and talking about sexually explicit material with minors isn’t alright??? is he that scared of his fans turning on him if he doesn’t act like he’s their close personal friend???

he needs to realize that he’s not going to lose his fanbase if he establishes boundaries with them. honestly, there’s more of a chance that he’ll lose them if he doesn’t establish boundaries. other people said this better than me (i’d like to link chloe @willexx’s post here which makes a lot of really important points regarding this as well as discussing madi, and this post by @reggieshairflip which goes really in depth into a lot of great points), but this is really concerning.

i also went on twitter last night to see what people were saying on there, and i’m beyond words. the majority of the commentary seems to be along the lines of “protect charlie from the smut!!”

y’all. charlie isn’t the one who needs protecting. regardless of the legal situation, if he wants to read fanfic he’s gonna find ways to read it. he’s a grown man, he’ll be fine. that’s so far removed from the actual point, i don’t know how else to explain it. charlie will be fine. we don’t have to be worried about him.

maybe people should focus on the fact that he’s talking about smut in a group chat with minors on it? like first off, don't be in a group chat with fans of your show, but especially don't talk about smut with minors, what the fuck. and the fact that he doesn’t even seem to realize the issues with what he’s doing is troubling in and of itself.

charlie has been involved in various other groupchats with fans for a while (this isn’t a new thing by any means), and i will admit that most of those interactions thus far have been innocent and harmless. regardless, the fact that he’s in group chats with fans at all worries me. these people are largely young, teenaged girls who idolize charlie--they’ve practically developed a parasocial relationship with him, and that’s not healthy in the slightest.

he’s not their “bestie,” he’s a celebrity. he keeps up with the innocent and harmless things, and encourages them, but doesn’t establish boundaries--and that’s what leads to people thinking that doing more is okay because he hasn’t said otherwise. people meeting him at the airport at 2am, fans showing up to owen’s house at midnight and then charlie entertaining them. that’s what this kind of behavior leads to, and i fear that it will inevitably lead to much worse in the future. i’m not trying to take blame away from the people who did these things--fans have to respect boundaries, set or not--but as a public figure charlie has a responsibility to set clear lines.

the point of this post is absolutely not to “cancel” him or anything. that wouldn’t be productive at all, and one of my favorite things about the jatp fandom on tumblr is our ability to have actually constructive conversations about things like this. this is tumblr, and i know i’m basically speaking to an echo chamber here-- but i feel this is important enough that it has to be said, even if nobody outside of this site will probably see it.

he needs to be held accountable and made to realize that what he’s doing isn’t okay. i get that this is his first experience being at the center of a large fandom like this, and i understand that he’s probably really excited about all the fans and wants to connect with them as much as possible. but he would do well to take notes from jeremy (and hell, madi, and she’s sixteen and didn’t have any prior acting experience at all), and engage in a healthy, responsible way like they do. i’m not going to speak about owen because i don’t really have much info or knowledge about how he interacts, but this potentially extends to him as well.

this is a really complicated and messy situation, and i get that. feel free to share your thoughts, but please be respectful. sending love to all of you guys rn 💜💜💜

EDIT: TO CLARIFY. i have seen this post making the rounds on twitter. i’m okay with that as long as it’s not a screenshot and the post is directly linked HOWEVER charlie did not straight up send smut to that group chat. they sent him the title, and he looked the fic up and sent the link in the group chat to clarify it was the one they were talking about. he was informed that it was smut, but it wasn’t just him sending the fic unprovoked. everything i said above still applies, he should not have engaged or encouraged the conversation but please don’t spread false information.

#again feel free to message me if you want to talk about it more/if you want further proof #but i'm not about to drop links publicly so please don't ask me to or come into my ask box with that kind of stuff #not sure if this post will show up in the tags bc of the links so i'm trusting y'all to spread this #charlie gillespie #jatp #julie and the phantoms #jatp fandom #jatp discourse #luke patterson #mine #willex #juke #julie molina #alex mercer #reggie peters #owen joyner #jeremy shada #madison reyes

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ayameyumesaki · 2 years ago

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Tokyo Babylon - CLAMP Premium Collection - Commentary Part 9

Previous Part First Part Next Part

Finally after some painstaking days of postponing this, we finally arrived on the last commentary for volume 3 ;w;

We're continuing Call B. If anyone remember, the last time, I cut it off after Subaru searched the girls' addresses but ended up helping them by attacking the unrest spirits which possibly would endanger his own life. They then discussed and reached a conclusion that the girls were currently receiving their punishment, or sakanagi. It ended with Seishiro looking at the ritual altar (idk what to call that) suspiciously and when Hokuto asked about it, he said he was thinking something pervert lol

Then, we went back to the girls.

The first girl, this one above, was the one with predictive dream ability when she was introduced in Call A. Her mother was complaining about her behavior for spending so much time on phone and made their billing high, but she was thinking about what happened the day before.

The other girls, however, weren't thinking the same. The girl with glasses was cutting her lunch to save money to buy telephone card because her mother complained, saying what's wrong with the bill going over 100,000 yen if she is the one who will save them in the future, and concluded that she isn't the same as everyone. Girlie, 100,000 yen is a lot of money.

While the last girl, similar to the girl with glasses, was writing what I assumed to be the new spell during class and got scolded by her teacher. She then convinced herself that she is special.

We moved back to Subaru's house, where he was bedridden due to a fever and Seishiro came for a visit. When they heard a bell, Hokuto told Subaru to "stay put in the bed or she will pretend to be Subaru and made pranks here and there" 🤧 I would like you to do that Hokuto.

Hokuto revealed that Subaru actually had a slight fever. She then welcomed Seishiro in and he brought them cakes from Tops. Look at how cute Hokuto's clothes and her buns 😭 probably one of the cutest (and most normal) outfit she wore in this series. She told Seishiro to go to Subaru's room.

Seishiro came and apologized to Subaru for pushing him for a date in Ikebukuro, which caused him to get sick. Subaru said it's not like that and he actually had fun, and this one triangle said "I'm really happy that you told me that" and Subaru goes all blushy.

However, it's actually a pretty normal phrase Seishiro used there. Just a polite consolation phrase. At least, I won't tell my friend, or even my crush, that if he/she gets sick because we hanged out the other day and he/she told me it's fun, I would blame myself for not noticing him/her being under the weather. What do you think about this?

Okay, skip skip, Hokuto told Seishiro that Subaru still wants to call Dial Q2 that day. Subaru said since the spirits appeared vividly to them, something bad would happen. He is racing with the time (which means if he didn't make an effort to stop them/exorcise them faster, the girls' heart couldn't be saved, which is mentioned earlier).

But of course, Subaru was still sick and forcing himself will harm him further instead. Thus Subaru told her:

Hokuto-chan, this is a job. I'm doing this job and receiving the money. Thus I want to do this job properly.

So, basically, Subaru here said something that's explaining why he went so far, so dedicated with his job. Subaru himself probably didn't become an onmyoji to receive the money, but since he has no other choice, since onmyoji itself is a profession and received money for his service is only right, he told himself that he should do it properly. A mindset for anyone who work in service line. If one asked for your service, you should pay them equal to the amount given to you.

But let's think about it. The request given to him was to find out who is the prankster of the party line AND it didn't include him to actually taking care of it. The reason why Subaru was this persistent was because it's involving someone's life. Hokuto here basically told his brother to think about himself, who wasn't in the condition to think about his job. Sure enough, now he already got their addresses, Subaru could just give the address to NTT and let them solve the problem.

But instead, Subaru shut Hokuto off with the very reason that she wouldn't be able to refute, especially when it comes to the basic of his profession. To someone like Subaru, if someone asked for his assistance, then he should see it until it ends. Until the case closed. That's the service he provided to his clients. And these girls were in danger. In the end of the day, all Subaru wanted was to let these girls safe mentally, thus he needed to convince Hokuto that ensuring the safety of the girls is also a part of his job. He knew his sister can do everything to stop him, after all. Subaru wasn't that black and white character---he knew what's right and wrong, and using money as his excuse probably didn't dwell with himself as well but that's an effective way to convince Hokuto.

Then, was Hokuto convinced?

Yes. Because she saw the determination in Subaru's eyes to save the girls. She then sighed and told him "Subaru is a professional. Work hard for the money you get!". She knew that Subaru is doing this for his own selfish, but she also understood that Subaru is also that dedicated to his job. Thus, she supported her.

After this, Subaru called the number again and the first girl, who said she was scared of what happened the night before, received the call. She said the spirits attacked again and Subaru convinced her that he can make it disappear. She asked if he is a part of their warrior thingy, if he is their friend, and if he is special.

I'm not.

To be honest, Subaru's answer is more like "it's different" and he didn't directly say "no" as in iie, but chigaimasu. This is also a perfectly normal answer in Japanese, but it's implying that what you are saying aren't wrong either, but that's not it. Unlike in chapter Dream, where he seemed to have trouble accepting that he is not like anyone else, here, he implied that he is different, but not the one they mean as well. Means, our boy is growing up accepting himself �� This is probably my delusion but anyway

(Surprise boy, 9 years later, you are one of those special beings who will decide the fate of the world :D)

He then told her that her ofuda is wrong, thus he wanted her to take it off. He then assured her that she will be safe, and she tore the ofuda down. The spirits went to attack her and Subaru began his exorcism but the other girls attacked at Subaru instead. I will write this part simple: Subaru held the attacks with his kekkai and it still got through but anyway, he finished the exorcism with one girl and passed out.

The next part? The best part.

We saw Hokuto frantically runs in panic to his brother and then SEI-CHAN!? Opening his glasses?????

I don't even bother to put them together because oh my god, MISTER SUSPICIOUS FINALLY SHOWED HIS FANGS??? SAKURAZUKAMORI IN ACTION??? His line here, "how about we end this?" while holding that tantou??? He spoke with such a smug in his face and honestly, that panel is so powerful.

And then what happened next?

Seishiro: No matter how much you are going to say stupid things and bother other people, it doesn't matter to me and I'm not interested at all. But whoever hurts Subaru-kun is unforgiven.

Cough

The girls attacked Seishiro and told him that they are special. Seishiro asked them "what's the value of being special?". He then reflected the attacks (probably with curse reflector) and told them "I'm not as kind as Subaru-kun, so I won't accept the attacks as it is". They then got into a debate about the pros of being special, and Seishiro goes with:

Seishiro: I think you are mistaken. The most admirable person in the world is the one who put their foot on the ground and doing their best living their usual live every day. Waking up early everyday, going to school everyday, working everyday, crying, laughing, doubting, suffering, doing their best living a "reality". If you are laughing at those normal people, then, can you live the same life as those normal people?

This panel! Let's go back to our main character a little bit.

Throughout these two chapters, you see, Seishiro is learning about Subaru. He saw how busy Subaru, he learned how dedicated himself to his work, and he learned that despite his ability, he is pretty much just like normal human who goes to work and doing his everything devoting himself to that. This panel reflected what Subaru did. To Subaru, helping someone else through his work is normal, and yes, while everyone is living a different life, if that's what they did regularly, then it's normal for them. It's what he means by doing their best living a "reality".

And Seishiro also said it, "if you laugh at those who lives a normal life, can you live like them?". Every person has their own life, every person has their own activities, every person has their own problems. The girls thought they are special by themselves and no one justified it.

This is a nice punch to the problem, and I love how Seishiro summed what happened in this chapter in one connected page.

Let's continue. This man told them if they wanted to be special that much, then he will help them. By giving them illusions and killing their mental? Well well. The two girls fought Seishiro turned crazy, while the girl Subaru saved was still sane and cried in her mother's hug.

Then, Seishiro picked Subaru up and complained, saying "Good grief, it was a spell which you can deflect easily, and you choose to receive it as it is in your sick condition. Is it reckless, or thoughtless." Yes you should say it to his face. He then continue with "if something happened to you in such work, Hokuto-chan will cry."

Seishiro: Also, the "bet" you made with me hasn't ended yet, Subaru-kun.

Did this man really drop Subaru to the ground again and caressed his face with Subaru's hand???? Did he really do that?? You hand fetish man.

Anyway, the next day.

Subaru told Hokuto and Seishiro about what happened to the girls. Two of them had their mental broken, thus they were admitted to the hospital. The last girl, the one Subaru saved, kept talking about nonsense so she was treated by psychiatrist. Subaru then said, in the end, he couldn't do anything and as long as they received the understanding from their family, it can be healed. But their future will be troubled.

Seishiro then added that Japan isn't a country who has a deep understanding to mental health like America.

Subaru turned sad and as Hokuto saw this, she slapped Subaru's cheeks and said:

Hokuto: Subaru, this incident is also work-related, right? Then, you should store it as a data and forget it. If you keep worrying this things and made a mistake in your next job, that's not a professional.

The best thing of this manga is still Hokuto's existence in Subaru's life ;;; look at how cute he smiled at his sister who consoled him. Damn, I need to prepare myself to future chapters ;;;

And thus, the chapter ended with Hokuto wondering why she fell asleep suddenly and Seishiro, as usual, evaded the question.

That's it for volume 3!

What do you think about it? I think, this volume is important to show Subaru's personality as a whole and it's fun to think a lot of things about him. One thing for sure, Subaru himself is never a white character; he isn't that naive as well and knows that he makes mistakes. But he will also dwell on that mistake a lot, on how powerless him in many situations, but he is also powerful in the same time.

Thus, I will end this time's commentary here and continue to read the last three volumes. Pray that I won't throw the book right away as it just arrived.

#anyway did anyone noticed subaru's pajama is dinosaur-pattern??#subaru is the cutest when he did things unnoticed ;;#tokyo babylon #clamp premium collection #sumeragi subaru #sakurazuka seishirou #sumeragi hokuto

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pumpkinpaix · 5 years ago

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Hi! Loving your meta on suibian :)) Just wondering what were your frustrations with cql, especially considered you've watched this in multiple mediums? (I've only watched cql)

Hi anon! thank you so much!

Oh boy, you’ve unlocked a boatload of hidden dialogue, are you ready?? :D (buckle up it’s oof. Extremely Long)

@hunxi-guilai please consider this my official pitch for why I think the novel is worth reading, if only so you can enjoy the audio drama more fully. ;)

a few things before I get into it:

I don’t want to make this a 100% negative post because I really do love CQL so much! So I’m going to make it two parts: the changes that frustrated me the most and the changes I loved the most re: CQL vs novel. (again, don’t really know anything about donghua or manhua sorry!!) Sound good? :D

this will contain spoilers for the entirety of CQL and the novel. just like. All of it.

talking about the value of changes in CQL is difficult because I personally don’t know what changes were made for creative reasons and what changes were made for censorship reasons. I don’t think it’s entirely fair to evaluate the narrative worth of certain changes when I don’t know what their limitations were. It’s not just a matter of “gay content was censored”; China also has certain censorship restrictions on the portrayal of the undead, among other things. I, unfortunately, am not familiar enough with the ins and outs of Chinese censorship to be able to tell anyone with certainty what was and wasn’t changed for what reason. So I guess just, take whatever my opinions are with a grain of salt! I will largely avoid addressing issues related to how explicitly romantic wangxian is, for obvious reasons.

OKAY. In order to impose some kind of control on how much time I spend on this, I’m going to limit myself to four explicated points in each category, best/worst. Please remember that I change my opinions constantly, so these are just like. the top contenders at this specific point in my life. Starting with the worst so we can end on a positive note!

Henceforth, the novel is MDZS, CQL is CQL.

CQL’s worst crimes, according to cyan:

1. Polarizing Wei Wuxian and Jin Guangyao on the moral spectrum

I’ve heard rumors that this was a censorship issue, but I have never been able to confirm or deny it, so. Again, grain of salt.

The way that CQL reframed Wei Wuxian and Jin Guangyao’s character arcs drives me up the wall because I think it does a huge disservice to both of them and the overarching themes of the story. Jin Guangyao is shown to be responsible for pretty much all the tragedy post-Sunshot, which absolves Wei Wuxian of all possible wrongdoing and flattens Jin Guangyao into a much less interesting villain.

What I find so interesting about MDZS is how much it emphasizes the role of external forces and situations in determining a person’s fate: that being “good” or “righteous” at heart is simply not enough. You can do everything with all the best intentions and still do harm, still fail, still lose everything. Even “right” choices can have terrible consequences. Everyone starts out innocent. “In this world, everyone starts without grievances, but there is always someone who takes the first blow.”

It matters that Wei Wuxian is the one who loses control and kills Jin Zixuan, that his choices (no matter how impossible and terrible the situation) had consequences because the whole point is that even good people can be forced into corners where they do terrible things. Being good isn’t enough. You can do everything right, make every impossible choice, and fail. You can do the right thing and be punished for it. Maybe you did the right thing, but others suffer for your actions. Is that still the right thing? Is it your fault? Is it? By absolving Wei Wuxian of any conceivable blame, it really changes the narrative conclusion. In MDZS, even the best people can do incomprehensible harm when backed into corners, and the audience is asked to evaluate those actions with nuance. Is a criminal fully culpable for the harm they do when their external circumstances forced them into situations where they felt like they had no good choices left?

Personally, I feel like the novel asks you to forgive Wei Wuxian his wrongs, and, in paralleling him with Jin Guangyao, shows how easily they could have been one another. Both of them are extraordinarily talented sons of commoners; the difference lies in what opportunities they were given as they were growing up and how they choose to react to grievances. Wei Wuxian is adopted early on into the head family of a prominent sect and treated (more or less—not going to get into it) like a son. Jin Guangyao begs, borrows, steals, kills for every scrap of prestige and honor he gets and understands that his position in life is, at all points, extraordinarily unstable. Wei Wuxian doesn’t take his grievances to heart, but Jin Guangyao does.

To be clear, I don’t think the novel places a moral value on holding grudges, if that makes sense. I think MDZS only indicates that acts of vengeance always lead to more bloodshed—that the only escape is to lay down your arms, no matter how bitter the taste. Wei Wuxian was horribly wronged in many ways, and I don’t think I would fault him for wanting revenge or holding onto his anger—but I do think it’s clear that if he did, it would destroy him. It destroys Jin Guangyao, after all.

(It also destroys Xue Yang, and I think the parallel actually also extends to him. Yi City, to me, is a very interesting microcosm of a lot of broader themes in MDZS, and I have a lot of Thoughts on Xue Yang and equivalent justice, etc. etc. but. Thoughts for another time.)

Wei Wuxian is granted a happy ending not because he is Good, but because public opinion has changed, because there’s a new scapegoat, because he is protected by someone in power, because he lets go of the past, and because the children see him for who he is. I really do think that the reason MDZS and CQL have a hopeful ending as opposed to a bleak one hinges on the juniors. We are shown very clearly throughout the story how easily and quickly the tide of public opinion turns. The reason we don’t fear that it’s going to happen to Wei Wuxian again (or any other surviving character we love) is, I think, because the juniors, who don’t lose their childhoods to war, have the capacity to see past their parents’ prejudices and evaluate the actions of the people in front of them without having their opinions clouded by intense trauma and fear. They are forged out of love, not fire.

In CQL however, it emphasizes that Wei Wuxian is Fundamentally Good and did No Wrong Ever, so he deserves his happy ending, while Jin Guangyao is Fundamentally Bad and Responsible For Everything, so he got what was coming to him (even if we feel bad for him maybe). That’s not nearly as interesting or meaningful.  

(One specific change to Jin Guangyao’s timeline of evil that I find particularly vexing, not including the one I will discuss in point 2, is changing when Jin Rusong was conceived. In the novel, Qin Su is supposedly already pregnant by the time they get married, and that matters a WHOLE LOT when evaluating Jin Guangyao’s actions, I think.)

2. Wen POWs used as target obstacles at Baifeng Mountain

I know the first point was “here’s an overarching plot change that I think deeply impacts the narrative themes” and this second one is “I despise this one specific scene detail so much”, but HEAR ME OUT. It’s related to the first point! (tbh, most things are related to the first point)

Personally, I think this one detail character assassinates like. almost everyone in attendance, but most egregiously in no particular order: Jin Guangyao, Jin Zixuan (and by extension, Jiang Yanli), Wei Wuxian, Lan Wangji and Lan Xichen.

First, I think it’s a cheap plot device that’s obviously meant to enhance Jin Guangyao’s ~villainy while emphasizing Wei Wuxian’s growing righteous anger, but it fails so spectacularly, god, I literally hate this detail so much lmao. I’ll go by character.

Jin Guangyao: I get that CQL is invested in him being a ~bad person~ or whatever, but this is such a transparently like, cartoon villain move that lacks subtlety and elegance. Jin Guangyao is very dedicated to being highly diplomatic, appeasing, and non-threatening in his bid for power. He manipulates behind the scenes, does his father’s dirty work, etc. but he always shows a gentle, smiling face. This display tips his hand pretty obviously, and even if it were at the behest of his father, there’s literally no reason for him to be so “ohohoho I’m so evil~” about it—if anything, this would only serve to drive his sympathizers away. It’s a stupid move for him politically, and really undercuts his supposed intelligence and cleverness, in my personal opinion.

Jin Zixuan: yes, he is arrogant and vain and likes to show off! But putting his ego above the safety of innocent people? Like, not necessarily OOC, but it sure makes him much less sympathetic in my eyes. I find it hard to believe that Jiang Yanli would find this laudable or acceptable, but she’s given a few shots where she smiles with some kind of pride and it’s like. No! Do not do my queen dirty like this. She wouldn’t!

Wei Wuxian: where do I start! WHERE DO I START. Wei Wuxian is shown to be “righteously angry” about this, but steps down mutinously when Jiang Cheng motions him back. He looks shocked and outraged at Jin Zixuan for showing off with no concern for the safety of the Wen POWs, only to like, two seconds later, do the exact same thing, but worse! And at the provocation of Jin Zixun, no less! *screams into hands* The tonal shift is bizarre! We’re in this really tense ~moral quandary~, but then he flirts with Lan Wangji for a second (tense music still kinda playing?? it’s awful. I hate it), and then does his trickshot. You know! Putting all these people he’s supposedly so concerned about at risk! To one-up Jin Zixuan! It’s nonsensical. It’s such a conflict of priorities. This is supposed to make him seem honorable and cool, I guess? But it mostly just makes him look like a performative hypocrite. :///

Lan Wangji: I cannot believe that Lan Wangji saw this and did not immediately walk out in protest.

Lan Xichen: this is just one part of a larger problem with Lan Xichen’s arc in CQL vs MDZS, where his character development was an unwitting casualty of both wangxian censorship and CQL’s quest to demonize Jin Guangyao. One of the prevailing criticisms I see of Lan Xichen’s character is that he is a “centrist”, that he “allows bad things to happen through his inaction and desire to avoid conflict”, and that he is “stupid and willfully blind to Jin Guangyao’s faults”, when I don’t think any of this is supported by evidence in the novel whatsoever. Jin Guangyao is a subtle villain! He is a talented manipulator and liar! Even Wei Wuxian says it in the novel!

(forgive my rough translations /o\)

Chapter 49, as Wei Wuxian (through Empathy with Nie Mingjue’s head) listens to Lan Xichen defend Meng Yao immediately following Wen Ruohan’s assassination:

魏无羡心中摇头：“泽芜君这个人还是……太纯善了。”可再一想，他是因为已知金光瑶的种种嫌疑才能如此防备，可在蓝曦臣面前的孟瑶，却是一个忍辱负重，身不由己，孤身犯险的卧底，二人视角不同，感受又如何能相提并论？

Wei Wuxian shook his head to himself: “This Zewu-jun is still…… too pure and kind.” But then he thought again—he could only be so guarded because he already knew of all of Jin Guangyao’s suspicious behavior, but the Meng Yao before Lan Xichen was someone who had had no choice but to suffer in silence for his mission, who placed himself in grave danger, alone, undercover. The two of them had different perspectives, so how could their feelings be compared?

Chapter 63, after Wei Wuxian wakes up in the Cloud Recesses, having been brought there by Lan Wangji:

他不是不能理解蓝曦臣。他从聂明玦的视角看金光瑶，将其奸诈狡猾与野心勃勃尽收眼底，然而，如果金光瑶多年来在蓝曦臣面前一直以伪装相示，没理由要他不去相信自己的结义兄弟，却去相信一个臭名昭著腥风血雨之人。

It wasn’t that he couldn’t understand Lan Xichen. He had seen Jin Guangyao from Nie Mingjue’s perspective, and so had seen all of his treacherous and cunning obsession with ambition. However, if Jin Guangyao had for all these years only shown Lan Xichen a disguise, there was no reason for [Lan Xichen] to believe a famously violent person [Wei Wuxian] over his own sworn brother.

Lan Xichen, throughout the story, is being actively lied to and manipulated by Jin Guangyao. His only “mistake” was being kind and trying to give Meng Yao, someone who came from a place of great disadvantage, the benefit of the doubt instead of immediately dismissing him as worthless due to his birth or his station in life. Lan Xichen sees Meng Yao as someone who was forced to make impossible choices in impossible situations—you know, the way that we, the audience, are led to perceive Wei Wuxian. The only difference is that the story that we’re given about Wei Wuxian is true, while the story that Lan Xichen is given about Meng Yao is… not. But how would have have known?

The instant he is presented with a shred of evidence to the contrary, he revokes Jin Guangyao’s access to the Cloud Recesses, pursues that evidence to the last, and is horrified to discover that his trust was misplaced.

Lan Xichen’s willingness to consider different points of view is integral to Wei Wuxian’s survival and eventual happiness. Without Lan Xichen’s kindness, there is no way that Wei Wuxian would have ever been able to clear his name. Everyone else was calling for his blood, but Lan Wangji took him home, and Lan Xichen not only allowed it, he listened to and helped them. To the characters of the book who are not granted omniscient knowledge of Wei Wuxian’s actions and circumstances, there is literally no difference between Wei Wuxian and Jin Guangyao. Lan Xichen is being incredibly fair when he asks in chapter 63:

蓝曦臣笑了，道：“忘机，你又是如何判定，一个人究竟可信不可信？”

他看着魏无羡，道：“你相信魏公子，可我，相信金光瑶。大哥的头在他手上，这件事我们都没有亲眼目睹，都是凭着我们自己对另一个人的了解，相信那个人的说辞。

“你认为自己了解魏无羡，所以信任他；而我也认为自己了解金光瑶，所以我也信任他。你相信自己的判断，那么难道我就不能相信自己的判断吗？”

Lan Xichen laughed and said, “Wangji, how can you determine exactly who should and should not be believed?”

He looked at Wei Wuxian and said, “You believe Wei-gongzi, but I believe Jin Guangyao. Neither of us saw with our own eyes whether Da-ge’s head was in his possession. We base our opinions on our own understandings of someone else, our belief in their testimony.

“You think you understand Wei Wuxian, and so you trust him; I also think I understand Jin Guangyao, so I trust him. You trust your own judgment, so can’t I trust my own judgment as well?”

But he hears them out, examines the proof, and acts immediately.

I really do feel like this aspect of Lan Xichen kind of… became collateral damage in CQL. Because Jin Guangyao is so much more publicly malicious, Lan Xichen’s alleged “lack of action” feels much less understandable or acceptable.

It is wild to me that in this scene, Lan Xichen reacts with discomfort to the proceedings, but has nothing to say to Jin Guangyao about it afterwards and also applauds Wei Wuxian’s archery. (I could talk about Nie Mingjue here as well, but I would say Nie Mingjue and Lan Xichen have very different perspectives on morality, so this moment isn’t necessarily OOC for NMJ, but I do think is very OOC for LXC.) This scene (among a few others that have Jin Guangyao being more openly “evil”) makes Lan Xichen look like a willfully blind bystander by the end of the story, but having him react with any action would have been inconvenient for the plot. Thus, he behaves exactly as he did in the book, but under very different circumstances. It reads inconsistently with the rest of his character (since a lot of the beats in the novel still happen in the show), and weakens the narrative surrounding his person.

None of these overt displays of cruelty or immorality happen in the book, so it makes perfect sense that he doesn’t do or suspect anything! Jin Guangyao is, as stated, perfectly disguised towards Lan Xichen. You can’t blame him for “failing to act” when someone was purposefully keeping him in the dark and, from his perspective, there was nothing to act upon.

This scene specifically is almost purely lighthearted in the novel! If you take out the Wen POWs, this just becomes a fun scene where Wei Wuxian shows off, flirts with Lan Wangji, gets into a pissing match with Jin Zixuan, and is overall kind of a brat! It’s great! I love this scene! The blindfolded shot is ridiculous and over-the-top and very cute!

I know this is a lot of extrapolation, but the whole scene is soured for me due to you know. *gestures upwards* Which is really a shame because it’s one of my favorite silly scenes in the book! Alas! @ CQL why! ;A;

3. Lan Xichen already being an adult and sect leader at the start of the show

This is rapidly becoming a, “Lan Xichen was Wronged and I Have the Receipts” essay (oh no), but you know what, that’s fine I guess! I never said I was impartial!

CQL makes Lan Xichen seem much older and more experienced than he is in the novel, though we’re not given his specific age. In the novel, he is not sect leader yet when Wei Wuxian and co. arrive at the Cloud Recesses for lectures. His father, Qingheng-jun, is in seclusion, and his uncle is the de facto leader of the sect. Lan Xichen does not become sect leader until his father dies at the burning of the Cloud Recesses. Moreover, my understanding of the text is that he is at most 19 years old when this happens. Wen Ruohan remarks that Lan Xichen is still a junior at the beginning of the Sunshot Campaign in chapter 61. (If someone has a different interpretation of the term 小辈, please correct me.) In any case! Lan Xichen is young.

Lan Xichen ascends to power under horrific circumstances: he is not an adult, his father has just been murdered, his uncle seriously injured, his brother kidnapped, and his home burnt to the ground. He is on the run, alone! Carrying the sacred texts of his family and trying to stay alive so his sect is not completely wiped out on the eve of war! He is terrified, inexperienced, and unprepared!

You know, just like Jiang Cheng, a few months later!

I see a lot of people lambasting Lan Xichen for not stepping up to protect the Wen remnants post-Sunshot, but I’m always flummoxed by the accusations because I don’t see criticisms of Jiang Cheng with remotely the same vitriol, even though their political positions are nearly identical:

they are both extraordinarily young sect leaders who came to power before they expected to through incredible violence done to their families

because of this, they are in very weak political positions: they have very little experience to offer as evidence of their competence and right to respect. if they are considered adults, they have only very recently come of age.

Jin Guangshan, who is rapidly and greedily taking the place of the Wen clan in the vacuum of power, is shown to be more than willing to mow people down to get what he wants—and he has the power to do so.

both Yunmeng Jiang and Gusu Lan were crippled by the Wen clan prior to Sunshot. And they just fought a war that lasted two and a half years. they are hugely weakened and in desperate need of time to rebuild, mourn, etc. both Jiang Cheng and Lan Xichen are responsible for the well-being of all of these people who are now relying upon them.

I think it’s very obvious that Jiang Cheng is in an impossible situation because he wears his fears and insecurities on his face and people in power (cough Jin Guangshan) prey upon that, while we, as the audience, have a front row seat for that whole tragedy. We understand his choices, even if they hurt us.

Why shouldn’t Lan Xichen be afforded the same consideration?

I really do think that because he’s presented as someone who’s much more composed and confident in his own abilities than Jiang Cheng is, we tend to forget exactly what pressures he was facing at the same time. We just assume, oh yes, of course Lan Xichen has the power to do something! He’s Lan Xichen! The First Jade! Isn’t he supposed to be Perfectly Good? Why isn’t he doing The Right Thing?

I think this is exacerbated by CQL’s decision to make him an established sect leader at the start of the show with several years of experience under his belt. We don’t know his age, but he is assumed to be an Adult. This gives him more power and stability, and so it seems more unacceptable that he does not make moves to protect the Wen remnants, even if in essence, he and Jiang Cheng’s political positions are still quite similar. He doesn’t really have any more power to save the Wen remnants without placing his whole clan in danger of being wiped out again, but CQL implies that he does, even if it isn’t the intention of the change.

It does make me really sad that this change also drives a further thematic divide between Lan Xichen and the rest of his generation. Almost everyone in that generation came of age through a war, which I think informs the way their tragedies play out, and how those tragedies exist in contrast to the juniors’ behavior and futures. Making Lan Xichen an experienced adult aligns him with the generation prior to him, which, as we’re shown consistently, is the generation whose adherence to absolutism and fear ruined the lives of their children. But Lan Xichen is just as much a victim of this as his peers.

(the exception being maybe Nie Mingjue, but it’s complicated. I think Nie Mingjue occupies a very interesting position in the narrative, but like. That’s. For another time! this is. already so far out of hand. oh my god this is point three out of eight oh nO)

(yet another aside because I can’t help myself: can you believe we were robbed of paralleling scenes of Jiang Cheng and Lan Xichen’s coronations? the visual drama of that. the poetic cinema. it’s not in the book, but can you IMAGINE. thank u @paledreamsblackmoths for putting this image into my head so that I can suffer forever knowing that I’ll never get it.)

I said I wasn’t going to talk at length about any changes surrounding Wangxian’s explicit romance for obvious reasons, but I will at least lament here that because a large percentage of Lan Xichen’s actions and character beats are directly in relation to Lan Wangji’s love for Wei Wuxian, he loses a lot of both minor and major moments to the censors as well. Many of the instances when he encourages Lan Wangji to talk to Wei Wuxian, when he indulges in their relationship etc. are understandably gone. But the most significant moment that was cut for censorship reasons I think is when he loses his temper with Wei Wuxian at the Guanyin temple and lays into him with all the fury and terror he felt for his brother’s broken heart for the last thirteen years.

Lan Xichen is only shown to express true anger twice in the whole story, both times at the Guanyin temple: first against Wei Wuxian for what he perceives as gross disregard for his little brother’s convictions, and second against Jin Guangyao for his massive betrayal of trust. And you know, murdering his best friend. Among other things.

I’m genuinely so sad that we don’t get to see Lan Xichen tear Wei Wuxian to shreds for what he did to Lan Wangji because I think one of the most important aspects to Lan Xichen’s character is how much he loves, cares for and fears for his little brother. The reveal about Lan Wangji’s punishment in episode 43 is a sad and sober conversation, but it’s not nearly as impactful, especially because Wei Wuxian asks about it of his own volition. I understand that this isn’t CQL’s fault! But. I can still mourn it right? ahahaha. :’)

I’ll stop before I descend further into nothing but Lan Xichen meta because that’s. Dangerous. (I have a lot of Feelings about how there are three characters who are held up as paragons of virtue in MDZS, how they all suffered in spite of their goodness, and how that all ties directly into the whole, “it is not enough to be good, but kindness is never wrong” theme. Anyways, they’re Xiao Xingchen, Jiang Yanli, and Lan Xichen, but NOT NOW. NOT TODAY.)

So yes, I’m a Lan Xichen apologist on main, and yes, I understand my feelings are incredibly personally motivated and influenced by my subjective emotions, but no I do not take concrit on this point, thank you very much.

4. all of the Wen remnants turning themselves in alongside Wen Qing and Wen Ning

Okay, back to plot changes. This change I would be willing to bet money was at least partially due to censorship, but it hurts me so deeply hahaha. It makes literally no sense for any of the characters and it completely janks the timeline of events post Qiongqi Dao 2.0 through Wei Wuxian’s death.

It’s not ALL bad—this change makes it easier for the Peak Wangxian moment at the Bloodbath at Nightless City (You know. Hands. Cliff. etc.) to happen, which I did very much enjoy. It’s pretty on-brand for CQL to sacrifice plot for character beats that they want to emphasize, so like. I get it! This moment is a huge gift! I Understand This. CQL collapses the Bloodbath at Nightless City and the First Siege of the Mass Graves into one event for I think a few reasons. One, Wangxian moment without being explicitly Wangxian, which is excellent. Two, it circumvents the Blood Corpse scene, which I do not think would have made it past censorship.

I’ll get to the Blood Corpse scene in a minute, but despite being able to understand why so much might have been sacrificed for the impact of the cliff scene, I still wish it had been done differently (and I feel like it could have been!), if only for my peace of mind because the plot holes it creates are pretty gaping.

The entire point of Wen Qing and Wen Ning turning themselves in is specifically to save their family members and Wei Wuxian from coming to further harm. That’s explicit, even in the show. Jin Guangshan demands that the Wen brother and sister stand for their crimes and claims that the blood debt will be paid. The Wen remnants understand that Wei Wuxian has given up so much for their sakes, that he has lost his family, his home, his respectability, his health, all in the name of sheltering them. To throw all of that away would be the greatest disrespect to his sacrifices. Wen Qing and Wen Ning decide that if their lives can pay for the safety of their loved ones and ensure that Wei Wuxian’s sacrifices matter, they are willing to go together and give themselves up.

So. Why did they. All go?? For… moral support???? D: Wen Qing says that Wei Wuxian will wake up in three days and that she’s given Fourth Uncle and the others instructions for his care–but then Fourth Uncle and the others all go with them!! To die!! There’s also very clearly a shot of Granny Wen taking A’Yuan with them, which like. Obviously didn’t really happen.

Wen Qing, who loves her family more than anything in the world, agrees that they should all go to Lanling and sacrifice themselves to…. protect Wei Wuxian? Wen Qing, pragmatic queen of my heart, agrees to this absurdly bad exchange?? Leaves Wei Wuxian to wake up, alone, with the knowledge that he had not only killed his brother-in-law but also effectively gotten everyone he had left killed also??

I can’t imagine Wen Qing doing that to Wei Wuxian. Save his life? For what? This takes away everything he has left to live for. You think Wen Qing doesn’t intimately understand how cruel that would be?

(Yes, I’m complaining about all of this, but I’m still about to cry because I rewatched the scene to make sure I didn’t say anything untrue, and g o d it manages to hit hard despite all of that, so who’s the real clown here!!)

Anyways. So that’s all just like. Frustratingly incoherent. It’s one of several wrongs I think CQL committed against Wen Qing’s character, but my feelings about Wen Qing in CQL are pretty complicated (I love her so much, and I love that we got more Wen Qing content, but that content sure is a mixed bag of stuff I really enjoyed and stuff I desperately wish didn’t exist) and I decided I wasn’t going to get into it in this post. (is anyone even still reading god)

This change also muddles Lan Wangji’s choices and punishment in ways that I think diminishes the severity of the situation to the detriment of both his characterization and his family’s characterization. The punishment scene is extremely moving and you should read this post about the language used in it but. sldfjsljslkf.

okay well, several things. In the context of CQL, which really pushes the “righteousness” angle of Wei Wuxian (see point 1), I think this scene makes a lot of sense in isolation: both Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian are painted as martyrs for doing the right thing. “Who’s right and who’s wrong?” The audience is asked to see the punishment as “unjust”. That’s perfectly fine and coherent in the context of CQL, but I don’t think it’s nearly as interesting as what happens in MDZS.

Because CQL collapses both the First Siege and the Bloodbath into one event, Lan Wangji’s crimes are sort of unclearly defined. In episode 43, when Lan Xichen is explaining the situation, we see a flashback to when Su She says something along the lines of, “We could set aside the fact that you defended Wei Ying at Nightless City, but now you won’t even let us search his den?” (of course, this gives us the really excellent “you are not qualified to talk to me” line which. delicious. extremely vindicating and satisfying. petty king lan wangji.) Lan Xichen goes on to say something like, “Wangji alone caused several disturbances at the Mass Graves. Uncle was greatly angered, and [decreed his punishment]”. (Sorry, I’m too lazy to type out the full lines with translations, just. trust me on this one.)

Lan Wangji’s actions are shown to be motivated by a righteous love. Wei Wuxian is portrayed as someone innocent who stood up for the right thing against popular opinion and was scapegoated and destroyed for it, having done no wrong. (See, point 1 again.)

In MDZS, Lan Wangji’s crimes are very specific. It isn’t just that he caused some “disturbances” (this is just Lan XIchen’s vague phrasing in CQL—we don’t really know what he did). He steals Wei Wuxian away from the Bloodbath at Nightless City, after Wei Wuxian killed thousands of people, and hides him away in a cave, feeding him spiritual energy to save his life. When Lan Wangji’s family comes to find him, demand that he hand over Wei Wuxian (who is, remember, a mass murderer at this point! we can argue about how culpable he is for those actions all day—that’s the whole point, but the people are still dead), Lan Wangji not only refuses, but raises his hands against his family. He seriously injures thirty-three Lan elders to protect Wei Wuxian.

I don’t know how to emphasize how serious that crime is? Culturally, this is like. Unthinkable. To raise your hand against members of your own family, your elders who loved and raised you, in defense of an outsider, a man who, by all accounts, is horrifically evil and just murdered thousands of people, including other members of your own family, is like. That’s a serious betrayal. Oh my god. Lan Wangji, what have you done?

Lan Xichen explains in chapter 99:

我去看他的时候对他说，魏公子已铸成大错，你何苦错上加错了。他却说……他无法断言你所作所为对错如何，但无论对错，他愿意与你一起承担所有后果。

When I went to see him, I said, “Wei-gongzi’s great wrongs are already set in stone, why take the pains to add wrongs upon wrongs?” But he said…… he had no way to ascertain the rights and wrongs of your actions, but regardless of right or wrong, he was willing to bear all the consequences with you.

I think this is very different than what’s going on in CQL, though the differences appear subtle on the surface. In CQL, Lan Wangji demands of his uncle, “Dare I ask Uncle, who is righteous and who is wicked, who is wrong and who is right?” but the very act of asking in this way implies that Lan Wangji has an opinion on the matter (though perhaps not a simple one).

Lan Wangji in MDZS specifically says that he doesn’t know how to evaluate the morality of Wei Wuxian’s actions, but that regardless, he is willing to bear the consequences of his choices and his actions. He understands that his actions while sheltering Wei Wuxian are not clearly morally defensible. He did it anyways because he loved Wei Wuxian, because he thought that Wei Wuxian was worth saving, that there was still something good in him, despite the things he had done under mitigating circumstances. Lan Wangji did not save Wei Wuxian because he thought it was the right thing to do. He saved him because he loved him.

He is given thirty-three lashes with the discipline whip, one for each elder he maimed, and this leaves him bedridden for three years. Is this punishment horrifyingly severe? Yes! But is it unjustly given? I think that’s a much harder question to answer in the context of the story.

Personally, I think that question underscores the broader questions of morality contained within MDZS. I think it’s a much more interesting take on Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji as individuals. This asks, what can be pardoned? The righteous martyr angle is uncomplicated because moral certainty is easy. I think the situation in MDZS is far more uncomfortable if you examine its implications. And personally, I think that’s more meaningful!

(Not even going to touch on the whole, 300 strokes with a giant rod, but he has whip scars? And they were also sentenced to 300 strokes as kids for drinking alcohol…? CQL is not. consistent. on that front. ahaha.)

God, every point so far in this meta is just like “here’s one change that has cascading effects upon the rest of the show” dear god, okay, I’m getting to the Blood Corpse scene.

So in MDZS, the Wen remnants (besides Wen Ning and Wen Qing) do not go to Lanling. After the Bloodbath at Nightless City, Lan Wangji returns Wei Wuxian to the Mass Graves. Wei Wuxian lives with the Wen remnants for another three months before the First Siege, where he dies and the rest of the Wens are killed (except A’Yuan).

(Sidenote that I won’t get into: I love the dead spaces of time that MDZS creates. There’s very clear gaps in the narrative that we just never get the details on, most notably: Wei Wuxian’s three months in the Mass Graves post core transfer, and Wei Wuxian’s three months in the Mass Graves post Jiang Yanli’s death. They’re both extremely terrible times, but the audence is asked to imagine it instead of ever learning what really happened, what it was like. There’s something really cool about that narratively, I think.)

The Wen remnants are not cremated along with the rest of the dead. Their bodies are thrown into the blood pool.

At the Second Siege, when Wei Wuxian draws a Yin Summoning Flag on his clothes to turn himself into bait for the corpses in order to allow everyone else to escape to safety while he and Lan Wangji fight them off, there’s a moment when it gets really, truly dangerous—even with the help of the juniors and a few of the adults, they probably would have been killed. But then a wave of blood-soaked corpses come crawling out of the blood pool of their own accord and tear their attackers apart.

At the end of it, the blood corpses, the Wen remnants, gather before Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian and Wen Ning. Wei Wuxian thanks them, they exchange bows, and the blood corpses collapse into dust. Wen Ning scrambles to gather their ashes, but runs out of space in his clothing. Several juniors, seeing this, offer up their bags to him and try to help.

It’s just. This scene is so important to me. Obviously, it couldn’t be included in CQL because of the whole undead thing, but it’s such a shame because I maintain that the Blood Corpse scene is one of the most powerful scenes in the whole goddamn book. It ties together so many things that I care about! It’s the moment when the narrative says, “kindness is not a waste”. Wei Wuxian failed to save them, but that doesn’t mean that his actions were done in vain. What he did matters. The year of life he bought them matters. The time they spent together matters.

This is also the moment when the juniors finally see Wen Ning for who he is—not the terrifying Ghost General, but a gentle man who has just lost his family for a second time. This is the moment when they reach out with kindness to the monster that their parents told them about at night. It matters that the juniors are able to do that! That they see this man suffering and are moved to compassion instead of righteous satisfaction.

(Except Jin Ling, for very understandable reasons, but Jin Ling’s moment comes later.)

It’s also the moment that we’re starkly reminded that many of the adults in attendance were present at the First Siege and directly responsible for the murders of the Wen remnants, including Ouyang Zizhen’s father. We’re reminded that he’s not just a comically annoying man with bad takes—he also participated in the murder of innocent people and then disrespected their corpses. But what retribution should be taken against him and the others? What retribution could be taken that wouldn’t lead to more tragedy?

There’s someone in the crowd in this scene named Fang Mengchen who refuses to be swayed by Wei Wuxian’s actions. “He killed my parents,” he says. “What about them? How can I let that go?”

“What more do you want from me?” Wei Wuxian asks. “I have already died once. You do not have to forgive me, but what more should I do?”

That is the ultimate question, isn’t it? What is the only way out of tragedy? You don’t have to forgive, but you cannot continue to take your retribution. It is not fair, but it’s all you have.

okay. so. those were my four Big Points of Contention with CQL, as I am currently experiencing them.

Honorable mentions go to: Wen Qing’s arc (both excellent and awful in different ways), making 13/16 years of Inquiry canon (I think this is untrue to Lan Wangji’s character, though I can understand why it was done), Mianmian’s departure from the Lanling Jin sect being shortened and having the sexism cut out (there’s something really visceral about the accusations against Mianmian being explicitly about her womanhood that I desperately wish had been retained in the show), cutting the scene where Jin Ling cries in mourning for Jin Guangyao and is scolded for it by Sect Leader Yao (my heart for that scene because it also matters so much)

but now!! onto the fun part, where I talk effusively about how much I love CQL!! this will probably be shorter (*prays*) because a lot of my frustrations with CQL are related to spiraling thematic consequences while the things I love are like. Simpler to pinpoint? If that makes sense? we’ll see.

CQL’s greatest virtues, also according to cyan:

1. this:

[ID: Wei Wuxian, trembling in fear, screaming “shijie!” as Jiang Cheng threatens him with Fairy in episode 34 of The Untamed drama. /end ID]

I understand that this is like, a very minor, specific detail change, but oh my GOD, it is like. Unparalleled. Every time I think about this change, I get so emotional and disappointed that it’s not in the novel, because I think it strengthens this scene tenfold. In the novel, Wei Wuxian calls out for Lan Zhan, which like, I get it. The story at this point is focused on the development of his romantic feelings for Lan Wangji, so the point of the scene is that the first person he thinks of in a moment of extreme fear is Lan Zhan, which surprises him. That’s fine. Like, it’s fine! But I think it doesn’t have nearly the same weight as Wei Wuxian calling for his sister to save him from his brother.

Having Wei Wuxian call out for his sister drives home the loss that the two of them have suffered, and highlights the relationship they all once had. Jiang Yanli is much more relevant to shuangjie’s narrative than Lan Wangji ever was, and this highlights exactly how deeply the fracturing of their familial relationship cuts. Wangxian gets so much time and focus throughout the rest of the novel. I love that this moment in the show is just about the Yunmeng siblings because that relationship is no less important, you know?

Calling out for Jiang Yanli in the show draws a much cleaner line through the dialogue. “You dare bring her up before me?” to “Don’t you remember what you said to Jin Ling?” It unifies the scene and twists the knife. It also gives us more insight into how fiercely Wei Wuxian was once beloved and protected by his siblings. Jiang Cheng promised to chase all the dogs away from Wei Wuxian when they were children. It’s clear that Jiang Yanli did as well.

Once upon a time, Wei Wuxian’s siblings defended him from his fears, and now one of them is dead and the other is using that fear to hurt him where he’s weakest. The reversal is so painfully juxtaposed, and it’s done with just that one flashback of Wei Wuxian as a child leaping into Jiang Yanli’s arms and calling out her name. Extremely good, economical storytelling. The conversation between shuangjie is much more focused on their own stories independent from Lan Wangji, which I very much appreciate. Wangxian, you’re wonderful, but this ain’t about you, and I don’t think it should be.

2. Extended Jiang Yanli content (and by extension, Jin Zixuan and Mianmian content)

Speaking of absolute goddess Jiang Yanli, I really loved what CQL did with her (unlike my more mixed feelings about Wen Qing). Having her in so many more scenes makes her importance to Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian a lot clearer, and we get to experience her as a person rather than an ideal.

On a purely aesthetic level, Jiang Yanli’s styling and character design is so stellar in CQL. The more prevalent design for her is kind of childish in the styling, which I don’t love (I think it’s the donghua influence?). And even I, someone who’s audio drama on main 24/7, personally prefer her CQL voice actor. There’s only a few characters in CQL that I look at and go “ah yes, that’s [character] 100%” and Jiang Yanli is one of them. I was blessed. I would lay down my life for her.

I’m really glad that CQL showed her illness more explicitly and gave her a sword, even if she never uses it! Her weak constitution is only mentioned once in the novel in chapter 69 in like two lines that I blew past initially because I was reading at breakneck speed and was only reminded of when my therapist who I conned into reading mdzs after 8 months of never shutting up oof brought it to my attention like two weeks ago. /o\

We never read about Jiang Yanli carrying a sword in the novel, though we are told that her cultivation is “mediocre”, so we know that she at least does cultivate, even if not very well. Highlighting her poor health in CQL makes her situation more clear, I think, and explains a little more about the way she’s perceived throughout the cultivation world as someone “not worthy of Jin Zixuan”. The novel tells us that Jiang Yanli is not an extraordinary beauty, not very good at cultivation, sort of bland in her expressions, and, very briefly, that she’s in poor health. I really love that description of Jiang Yanli, because it emphasizes that her worth has nothing at all to do with her talents, her health, her cultivation, her physical strength, or her beauty. She is the best person in the whole world, her brothers adore her, and the audience loves and respects her for reasons wholly unrelated to those value judgments. We love her because she is kind, because she is loyal, because she loves so deeply. Tbh, her only imperfection is falling for someone so tragically undeserving of her. (JK, I love you Jin Zixuan, and you do deserve her because you are an excellent boy who grows and changes and learns!! I can’t even be mean to characters as a joke god.)

Anyways, I just think the detail about her health is compelling and informs her character’s position in the world in a very specific way. I’m happy that CQL brought it to the forefront when it was kind of an easily-missed throwaway in the novel. It does mean something to me that Jiang Yanli, despite her poor physical health, is never once seen or treated as a burden by her brothers.

Something partially related that really hit hard was this:

[ID: two gifs. Jiang Yanli peeling lotus pods, looking up uncomfortably as her mother loses her temper about the Wen indoctrination at the table from episode 11 of The Untamed drama. /end ID]

D8 AAAAHHH this was VISCERAL. The novel is quite sparse in a lot of its descriptions and lets the audience fill in the missing details, so Jiang Yanli’s expression and reactions are not described when, after Jiang Cheng quickly volunteers to go to Qishan, Madam Yu accuses her of continuing to “happily peel lotus seeds” in such a dire situation.

“Of course you’ll go,” she snaps to Jiang Cheng. “Or else do you think we should let your sister go?”

This scene triggered me so bad lmfao, so I guess it’s kind of weird that I love it so much, but I felt Seen. Something about the way her nail slips in the second gif as she breaks open the pod is like. Oh, that’s a sense memory! Of me, as a child, witnessing uncomfortable conflict between people I cared about. I know this is an extremely personal bias, but hey, so is this whole meta. Because Jiang Yanli is often silent and quiet, it’s more her behavior and expressions that convey her character. It’s why the moment she lets loose on Jin Zixun is so powerful. We don’t get to see a lot of it in the novel, but because CQL is a visual medium, her character is a lot easier to pin down as a human as opposed to an abstract concept.

Anyways, in this moment, which I also think is a tangential reference to her weak constitution (it doesn’t feel like, “your sister can’t go because she’s a girl”; it feels like, “your sister can’t go because she couldn’t handle it”), we get to see Jiang Yanli’s own reaction to her perceived inadequacy. We see it in other places too—like how upset she is when Jin Zixuan dismisses her in several scenes, but this is the one that hits me the hardest because it’s about how her weakness is going to put her little brother in grave danger.

Last Yunmeng siblings with focus on Jiang Yanli scene that isn’t in the novel that I’m just absolutely wrecked over: the dream sequence in episode 28, when Jiang Yanli dreams about Wei Wuxian sailing away from her, but no matter how she shouts, or how she begs Jiang Cheng to help her, she can’t bring him back home.

I’m not going to gif it because I literally just like, fast-forwarded through it and started sobbing uncontrollably in front of my laptop, dear god.

I don’t know where the CQL writers found the backdoor directly into my brain’s nightmare center, but?? they sure did! IDK, I can see how this might be kind of heavy-handed, but it just. The sensation of being in a dream where something is going terribly wrong, but you’re the only one who seems to see it happening? But there’s nothing you can do? I feel like it’s a very fitting nightmare to give Jiang Yanli, who is acutely aware and constantly reminded of how little power she has in the world: not good enough for the boy she likes, not healthy enough to cultivate well, not strong enough to keep her family together.

The whole, elder siblings trying and failing to protect their younger siblings pattern is A Lot in the story, but there’s something particularly painful about seeing it happen to Jiang Yanli because of that awareness. All the other elder siblings are exceptionally talented or powerful in obvious ways. All Jiang Yanli has is the force of her will and the force of her love, and she knows it isn’t enough.

I care a lot about the Yunmeng siblings, okay! And I think CQL did right by them!

I’m only going to spend two seconds talking about Jin Zixuan and Mianmian, but I DO want to mention them.

Anyways, because we get more Jiang Yanli content, we ALSO get more soft xuanli, which is Very Good. Literally my kingdom for disaster het Jin Zixuan treating my girl right!! CQL said het rights, and I’m not even mad about it! I’m really happy that we get to see a little more of how their relationship plays out, and how hard Jin Zixuan works to change his behavior and apologize to her for his mistakes. The novel is from Wei Wuxian’s POV, so we miss the details, alas. Jin Zixuan covered in mud, planting lotuses? Blessed.

I think part of making Mianmian a larger speaking role is for convenience’s sake, but oh boy do I love that choice. Especially the Jin Zixuan & Mianmian relationship. Like, they’re so clearly platonic, and Mianmian is never once portrayed as a threat to Jiang Yanli. They just care about and respect each other a lot? Jin Zixuan’s distress when she defects from the Jin sect gets me in the heart, because it’s just like. God. I think there’s a lot of interesting potential there for her own thoughts re: Wei Wuxian. After all, she leaves her sect in defense of him, but he later kills a friend that she respects and loves. The moments shared between her and Jin Zixuan are minor, but they hint at a deeper relationship that I’m really glad was in the show.

3. To curb the strong, defend the weak: lantern scene (gusu) + rain scene (qiongqi dao 1.0)

I think I basically already explained why I love this so much in this post (just consider that post and this point to be the same haha), but just. Okay. A short addendum.

As much as I love novel wangxian, I really think that including this scene early on emphasizes why Lan Wangji loves Wei Wuxian so deeply. Of course he thinks Wei Wuxian is attractive, but this is the moment when he realizes, oh, this is who I love. Having that moment to reflect upon throughout Wei Wuxian’s descent is so excellent. I have enumerated all of my issues with the “perfectly righteous Wei Wuxian” arc that CQL crafted, but having this narrative throughline in conjunction with the novel arc would be like. My favored supercanon ahaha. (It would need some tweaking, but I think it would work.) It shows us exactly who it is that Lan Wangji sees and is trying to save, who he thinks is still there, underneath all the carnage and despair and violence and grief. This is the Wei Wuxian Lan Wangji loves and is unwilling to let go. This is the Wei Wuxian that Lan Wangji would kill for, that Lan Wangji would stand beside, that Lan Wangji would live for.

4. Meeting Songxiao

As much as I love the unnameable ache of Wei Wuxian never meeting Xiao Xingchen and learning only about his story through secondhand sources in the novel (and the really cool parallel to that where Xiao Xingchen tells A’Qing the story of Baoshan-sanren’s ill-fated disciples: both Xiao Xingchen and Wei Wuxian learn of each other only through the eyes of others, and that is Very Neat), I think the reversal that this meeting in episode 10 sets up wins out just slightly.

I said once in the tags on one of my posts that “songxiao is the tragic parallel of wangxian” and like. Yeah. Basically! If we take songxiao as romantic, the arc of their relationship happens inversely to wangxian, and that parallel is so much clearer and stronger when we have wangxian meeting songxiao in their youth.

The scene of their meeting really does have that Mood™ of uncertain youth seeing happy and secure adults living out the dreams that they’re afraid to name. Wei Wuxian’s eager little, “oh! just like me and Lan Zhan!! Right, Lan Zhan??” when songxiao talk about cultivating together through shared ideals and not blood is. Well, it’s Something.

When they meet again at Yi City, there’s a greater heaviness to it. So this is what happened to the people you once dreamed of becoming! Wangxian have already come to a point where they have an unspoken understanding of their relationship, but Songxiao have lost everything they once had. When Song Lan looks at wangxian, it’s like looking at a mirror of his past, and everyone in attendance knows it.

To me, that unspoken parallel is really emotionally and thematically valuable. All that good, and here is the tragedy that came of it.

okay, look! I managed to keep it shorter!! here are my honorable mentions: that scene where Jin Guangyao tries to hold Jin Ling and Jin Guangshan refuses to let him (it’s hating Jin Guangshan hours all day every day in this household), the grass butterfly leitmotif for Sizhui (im literally crying right now about it shut up), the Jiang Cheng/Wen Qing sideplot (look I know it’s wild that I actually liked that given that I headcanon JC as aspec, but I actually really like how it played out, specifically because Wen Qing and Wei Wuxian are NOT romantic—it sets up an unexpected and interesting comparison)

um. Anyways. I uh. really care about this story. And have a lot of thoughts, which I’m sure will continue to evolve. Maybe in 8 months I’ll return to this and go well, literally none of this applies anymore, but who knows! It’s how I feel right now. I cried literally three times while writing this because MDZS/CQL reached into my chest and yanked my heart right out of my body, but I had fun! *finger guns*

and like, I know I had a LOT to say about what frustrated me about CQL, but I really really hope it’s clear that I adore the show despite all of that. I talk a lot because I care a lot, and my brain only has one setting.

anon, this was like 1000% more than you bargained for, I’m SURE, (and I’m still exercising some restraint, if you can. believe that.) but I hope that you or someone out there got something out of it! if you made it all the way to the end of this meta, wow!! consider me surprised and grateful!!

time to crawl back into my hovel so I can write Lan Xichen fic and cry

(ko-fi? ;A;)

#the untamed #the untamed meta #mdzs #mdzs meme #mo dao zu shi #mine #mymeta #asks and replies #Anonymous #HOOOOOO BOY GUYS #we are just shy of 10k on this #*buries face in hands*#cyan writes #cyan gets too deep in the weeds #i will be shocked if more than like ten people read this #by the end it was just like well i guess this is just for me now lmfao #anyways. i will now. leave the internet for a while. thanks

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shihalyfie · 4 years ago

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Adventure, 02, pragmatism, and humanism (morality of fighting, conflict resolution, the importance of personal choice, etc.)

Adventure and 02 are naturally very idealistic series, but despite being idealistic, there are times when they can get rather pragmatic -- even uncomfortably pragmatic in ways that seem a bit unusual for a kids’ show. The entire last quarter of Adventure and almost all of 02 dealt so heavily with the topic of “is it okay to fight, even if it means incurring deaths?" to the point it’s pretty hard to miss, but both series have an approach towards the morality of fighting, the possibility of potentially having to kill enemies (including former friends that have turned antagonistic), the approach to dispute resolution, and the meanings of “moving forward positively” and “not getting hung up on needless negativity” that are surprisingly nuanced. At times, there’s even a strong message that warns against getting hung up on preachy principles that sound noble on their face but actually don’t get anywhere in practice.

This is a handful of topics, and it’s to the point where it may seem a bit strange to condense all of these under one meta instead of dedicating separate posts to it, but I decided to on the grounds of the fact that they’re all very tied to each other in the course of Adventure’s narrative. Overall, both series are very kind to the feelings and mentalities and thoughts of the young children involved, having the characters not only be kind towards each other but also encouraging the audience to understand their feelings. This is an approach towards understanding oneself and others that happens to be very applicable to life in general, even for adults; both series float a balance of being pragmatic and yet humanistic, kind to the struggles and internal thoughts of all of the characters within, and have a surprisingly nuanced look at what it means to take part in conflict and what the “best thing to do” in such a case is.

As said above, this is a long and complicated meta, and it’s to the point where I’ve considered separating it into multiple parts or posts, but in the end could never bring myself to because of how interrelated all of these topics keep ending up with each other. So, to spare those of you who are intimidated by the sheer length and winding-topic nature of this, here are the main points:

One who is not emotionally ready to fight, or is unwilling to fight, should not be forced to fight. On top of it being inhumane, emotional exhaustion is treated much in a way similar to physical exhaustion; especially in a world where fighting strength is linked to emotional will, one whose heart is not in it will not even be able to effectively fight in the first place. Even when joining the fight is the obvious ideal solution, one who needs to sit out should not be blamed or scorned for it. A choice to fight is exactly that, a choice, not an obligation; the world is messy and imperfect, and the most you can do is try to do whatever you can within the best of your ability. If you do, there is no reason you should be scorned for it.

There are many meaningful ways to contribute to the overall fight that don’t necessarily involve direct physical violence; those ways are still valuable and necessary, and those more attuned to those roles should embrace those roles if it makes them more comfortable to do it that way.

If an extreme result -- such as killing the enemy -- is reached, it needs to be done with the first and foremost priority being to protect people and prevent casualties. A diligent effort should still be made to preserve as many lives as possible (which means this isn’t something where you get to go all “knight templar” and beeline for a violent solution) -- but sometimes, there will be times when push comes to shove and that most extreme solution will have to be reached, even if that “enemy” was originally a friend, because inaction will very obviously lead to more people being hurt.

When a dispute about important points like the above is reached, everyone’s feelings must be acknowledged. This is not to be confused with philandering around with a “both sides have a point!” compromise; in fact, Adventure and 02 both make very firm stances on the above issues. Rather, it makes it clear that said points need to be made while not invalidating the other person for having those feelings -- that is to say, there’s a huge difference between “your opinion is wrong” and “you are stupid and unreasonable for having that wrong opinion.” Dispute resolution and understandings can only be reached when you properly understand why the other person came to that conclusion, and treat them with proper empathy and compassion while you try to work it out. You don’t have to acknowledge their point, but you have to acknowledge their feelings. (For those of you who have seen Appmon: Shinkai Haru is a master at this technique, and there are multiple times during the series where he will very assertively make his case against others while still appealing to the other person’s feelings and never denying their right to have them. This is also an extremely useful technique for dispute resolution in general, and I recommend that those reading this consider employing it more often, at least assuming you’re dealing with someone who’s open to listening.) Likewise, to truly reach out to someone and support them also requires understanding their feelings -- you can’t truly “support” them unless you’re capable of doing so.

There is a certain limitation in which adhering too closely to “moral principles” ends up becoming impractical, and don’t end up contributing to anything in the long run -- fixating over things like grudges, revenge, “punishing” people, and even the concept of forgiveness can quickly turn into platitudes. The best way to move forward is to not fixate on those principles or get hung up on the past, and rather think “now that we’re at this point at the current moment, what’s the best way to move forward in a way that helps others the most and minimizes harm?”

Adventure and the morality of fighting, and the necessity of personal choice

Believe it or not, the question of how feasible pacifiism is was first brought up as early as Adventure episode 12, when Takeru states that he has no intention of fighting Devimon. Elecmon calls this mindset out for the naivete of thinking they can just waltz up to Devimon and ask for answers instead of him trying to murder them on the spot -- and, in fact, he is completely right, because Devimon is not someone who can be reasoned with and indeed immediately tries to murder everyone on the spot one episode later, which results in Angemon’s death and Takeru trading out this very idealistic, naive mindset for the no-compromise, strict anti-darkness stance he takes in 02.

So there are two things to get out of this. The first is that, while Adventure and 02 are certainly very idealistic series, they are absolutely not naive. There are bad actors out there like Devimon who can’t be reasoned with whatsoever. Already off the bat, we have a clear statement from Adventure that an “everyone should stop fighting and get along!” mindset, when applied ad absurdum, is not going to get anyone very far.

The second is that none of the Adventure (or 02) kids like fighting. Takeru’s reaction here is certainly as extreme as it is because the idea of “fighting” presumably triggers his trauma from his parents’ divorce and the resulting split, but there’s no actual indication that any of these kids are necessarily fond of it. Certain ones like Taichi might get a little cocky midway through the battle when they’ve gotten it in the bag and are on an adrenaline high, but there’s also no indication that they’re interested in beating stuff up for the sake of it. Note that all of the fighting in Adventure episodes 1-10 was done out of sheer self-defense, and no Digimon was killed in any of the resulting battles (we’ll assume that the giant Bakemon in episode 11 doesn’t count mainly because it’s already dead) -- it was always fighting to the minimal amount to chase the attacking Digimon away or get them off their back. And, in File Island, that was possible -- but starting from the Server Continent and after, the hostile Digimon were actively out to kill them instead of just being territorial wild Digimon, forcing the Chosen Children to up the ante in order to survive.

The issue of “whether fighting in itself is the right thing to do” is brought back in the Dark Masters arc, and this is also where we start getting a discussion about the disparity between “the right thing to do” and “whether one is capable of doing said right thing to do”. Mimi, the most emotionally sensitive of the group, starts having an emotional breakdown over whether they should keep fighting and potentially drag in more casualties -- especially because the Digimon that had died had all done it for their sake in order to continue the fight, and therefore the Chosen Children are indirectly responsible for their deaths. Yamato thus explains the difficulty of the situation: he himself agrees that Taichi’s evaluation of the need to push forward and continue the fight is the right thing to do, but it’s inhumane to not consider the stress and and emotional toll this is causing and force everyone to continue in spite of that.

In addition, Taichi’s reasoning for why they should continue is “revenge” -- a very negative, spiteful reason very tied to “fighting for the sake of it”. It’s understandable for Taichi to have these feelings, but he’s going at it from the wrong direction, and he’s overall being very insensitive in this scene. Later, in Adventure episode 45, he says that he’s doing it for the sake of honoring the Digimon who died for them. In other words, a lot of the reason Taichi’s methodology isn’t working is that he’s hung up on “the principle of things”, and not the more pragmatic reasons one should fight.

In Adventure episode 45, the kids finally meet the entity who chose them in the first place, who self-identifies as “the one who wishes for stability” -- the novels name them “Homeostasis”. Note the name -- it refers to the maintenance of internal balance within a living system, and Homeostasis themself starts their long infodump with their motive: it’s not that they want to eliminate all darkness from the world entirely, but that the powers of evil are upsetting the balance so badly that everything will be consumed if something isn’t done. It’s not like they’re insistent on violence either -- it’s just that they have a world to protect. The novels give us a particular amount of extra information on this entity, namely that it is not an omnipotent god by any shake of the imagination (in fact, there’s even an implication that there are higher powers that they themself don’t understand), and rather just a mere security system that observed that things were going south and used its rather limited methods of communication (via the Agents) to help make preparations.

Regardless, back to the episode -- we learn that the reason this entity recruited human children into all of this was because of the Hikarigaoka incident in 1995, which displayed to them and the Agents that a bond between children and Digimon could allow Digimon to evolve spontaneously, something that’s not possible with Digimon in the Digital World alone. Oh, and also, that they’ve been wanting to talk to them since File Island, and this entire thing about being cryptic with information was because they literally had no body and there was a massive amount of information loss after the Dark Masters blew up the Agents’ base and killed everyone except Gennai. In other words, just like with all of the actions the Chosen Children had been taking up until this point, everything Homeostasis and the Agents did was out of desperation because they were running out of other options to save their world, and during their brief time of being able to speak with the children, Homeostasis dumps pretty much everything they need to know and speaks to them using the extremely deferential sonkeigo form, meaning that they consider everything the kids are doing to be a massive favor to them. (Contrary to common belief, their possession of Hikari’s body does not seem to be non-consensual, given that they spend multiple episodes trying to contact her, and are clearly depicted having a proper conversation with her before temporarily borrowing her body.)

Most importantly, at the end of their speech, Taichi asks them what to do next, and the response is effectively: “We don’t know, but we trust you to make the best decision.” So, again: fighting as a Chosen Child is not an obligation, but something done because they want to do it and can. They were handed the tools to get this done by Homeostasis and the Agents, who believed in their potential to create miracles and be virtuous people and do something to save their world beyond what the native Digimon could do alone out of desperation and a lack of other options, and they are not hovering over the Chosen Children to see if they’ve “succeeded” or “failed” (note that they seem to have no sense of grudge or disappointment over Taichi’s SkullGreymon stunt in Adventure episode 16, explaining it very neutrally as an example of a risk), but more “we believe you were the best people who were able to do it and we trust your ability to help us.” (This is especially because, while it’s made clear they’d been wanting to contact them for a while, their most direct intervention comes right after Yamato had questioned why they were chosen in the first place -- presumably, they felt that the kids deserved an answer.)

At the end of Adventure episode 45, Mimi, considering the fighting they’re doing to be responsible for all of the fallouts and the sacrifices, decides that she won’t participate anymore, and Jou decides to stay with her in order to convince her to come back (although the novel also reveals that he himself is having doubts, too). Very importantly: nobody begrudges Mimi for being emotionally overwhelmed and sitting out, and nobody even begrudges Jou for choosing to stay with her. This is smack in the middle of the Dark Masters arc when everyone needs all the support they can get -- but after everything that had just happened, it’s inhumane to force either of them forward in this condition.

Despite his doubts, however, Jou himself is already coming to understand the limits of “pacifism” at a time like this:

What he wanted to tell her was this: that he didn’t see any likelihood of co-existing with the Dark Masters, and that they had no other choice but to fight them. Even a neutral country like Switzerland had a military. They would be invaded by enemy countries without one. It would be nice and ideal if they used the nonviolent resistance approach as Ghandi did. But that didn’t mean it was okay to just be killed without lifting a finger… But not even he could find a good answer.

Again: Adventure and 02 are an idealistic series, but they are not naive. It would be nice if the fighting could all stop and everyone would be happy, but there are malicious bad actors who will take advantage of you sitting there and doing nothing.

And so, Leomon dies in Adventure episode 47, and Mimi and Jou learn the hard way: if they do nothing, people will still die. Mimi had witnessed all of the Digimon sacrificing themselves for the Chosen Children’s sake, and thus had followed the logic that their friends would stop dying for them if they stopped fighting, but now that they’ve stopped fighting, said malicious forces (in this case, MetalEtemon) went ahead and killed their friends anyway -- and they’ve gone and destroyed the Village of Beginnings to boot, preventing any of them from being reborn. So in other words, if the intent is to “prevent casualties”, as it turns out, inaction didn’t actually prevent casualties.

Nevertheless, Mimi does not like fighting. In fact, Jou doesn’t like fighting either. Both of them now understand that it’s the best thing to do in this situation, but is it really the best thing to do to force them into embracing violence because of this? Instead, Jou determines in Adventure episode 50 that the overall fight doesn’t necessarily mean that everyone has to jump in and get violent -- the likeable and friendly Mimi has started to cultivate a skill in getting other people to rally behind her, and Jou is starting to consider that he may have a future in treating the wounded and supporting people before they become casualties. Those are still valuable ways they can contribute without forcing them into doing things they can’t bring themselves to do -- and, indeed, Mimi’s rallied army ends up saving everyone’s rears in Adventure episode 52.

While Taichi is not there to personally witness this discussion, Adventure episode 50 has him make a slightly less reckless tactical plan, and he explains (directly citing what happened with Yamato, Mimi, and Jou as his rationale) that he’s learned that he needs to take into account the potential for there being collateral damage. Recall that, earlier, his motive for doing things had been on a sheer principle level, with a lot of negative emotions of spite and revenge. But now, he’s come to understand that the most important thing he needs to do is to “prevent sacrifices”, and that’s the reason they still need to fight. Hence, why Taichi makes a proper plan for doing it instead of just doing the first and most aggressive thing that comes to mind, since he’s a soccer captain and has the potential for being a bird’s eye tactician, after all -- this time, he just needs to channel it in a way that prioritizes the lives of people around them.

And in Adventure episode 51, when reaching out to Sora (who’s cracking under all of her self-imposed expectations and sense of duty to others), Yamato and Jou take what they learned from Homeostasis six episodes prior and apply it -- Sora is working under the mentality that they have an “obligation” to get this done and that they are impending “failures” if they don’t (and, to be fair, if they don’t make it, the world is going to end, which is pretty unambiguously terrible). But what Yamato and Jou do is reframe it to fall more closely under the philosophy of what Adventure is saying here -- the fact they can do something about it is already absolutely incredible. (I mean, not to sugarcoat the fact that the world is still going to end if they pull it off, but the stress, self-hatred, and self-blame of “we’re failures for not pulling it off” is definitely not going to help.) They are doing everything they can right now, within their reasonable abilities. If they end up not being able to do it, that’s not something that should be considered a sin or a failure on their part; they are here because they can and want to and are doing it and are here to make the best possible use of that.

It’s one of the many times Adventure and 02 will make this statement, indirectly or directly: despite the title of “Chosen Child”, the Chosen Children do everything they do because of their own choices, and because they want to, not because they have to.

We finally meet Apocalymon in Adventure episode 53, and we learn that he(?)’s a combined spirit made up of all of the Digimon that were “eliminated” and failed during the evolution process, and is deciding to take out its anger and spite at the world out on everyone else by “denying evolution” (this is clarified in the novel to also be the reason it subtly influenced the prior enemies to destroy everything and especially the Village of Beginnings, because it functionally would put an end to the Digital World’s evolution by reducing it to nothing). So, in the end, we have a contrast between Apocalymon, who’s fighting for the sake of self-centered spite (including wanting to take down everything with it in Adventure episode 54 even when its demise is already clear), and the Chosen Children, who are fighting to protect their loved ones.

Incidentally, we also learn in Adventure episode 53 that there were Chosen Children who put an incomplete seal on Apocalymon prior to the ones in 1999. (Kizuna also introduces Menoa Bellucci, who became a Chosen Child in 1997, and assuming you’re following Adventure’s background doubling-every-year lore, at the time of 1999, there were a whole eight other Chosen Children besides Taichi’s group in existence.) The novels make it clear that the time dilation and distortion was going all the way up until the defeat of Apocalymon, long enough that the partners of those older Chosen were able to evolve to the Holy Beasts (and possibly enough for said older Chosen to get really faded through Digital World history to the point even Gennai doesn’t know about them). So the point here is that in the grand scope of the entirety of Digital World history, Taichi and his friends are not particularly singular existences -- there are people who saved the world before them, and 02 will introduce people all over the world who are going on their own adventures (including the main 02 kids in Tokyo), and, of course, by the time of the 02 epilogue, everyone’s going to have a Digimon partner. Koushirou later observes in Two-and-a-Half Break that there’s nothing special about having a partner in itself.

Does that make Taichi and his friends’ adventure of self-growth and saving a whole two worlds somehow insignificant, just because it’s not particularly unique? No. Because, again, they did this all not because of whether Homeostasis chose them or not, but because all of it was operated by their own will and strength and desire to protect others, all within the restraints of what they could feasibly do and handle, and they are amazing people for pulling that off.

02 and the importance of mutual understanding (and, also, more about the morality of fighting)

Before we proceed onto the 02 analysis, I think it’s important to establish a bit of important context about how 02′s lead protagonist, Daisuke, approaches things, and how it relates to the recurring debates on the morality of fighting throughout the series. In 02 episode 14, we learn that Daisuke was captured at Big Sight during the Odaiba Fog incident, and therefore witnessed, firsthand, the threat of Vamdemon’s lackeys attacking innocent civilians (something that Miyako, who witnessed the self-contained Omegamon vs. Diablomon battle on the Internet, and Iori, who only happened to be on a grounded plane after the Vamdemon fight had already ended, did not quite have anything on the par of). Spring 2003 and the Adventure novels elucidate what was going on in his head at the time: he was frustrated at his inability to protect his loved ones, and wished to have the power to fight the “bad guys” who were threatening everyone.

Remember this for later.

Moving onto 02 itself. 02 is a series about relationships, but, more significantly, it’s a series about the sheer amount of work it takes to maintain relationships, and especially the principle that “maintaining a relationship to another person requires being properly aware and understanding of the other person’s feelings.” One thing that often frustrates me about a lot of media (both kids’ shows and non-kids’ shows) and, well, to be honest, a lot of people in general, is the preaching of supposedly “positive” platitudes that actually go straight into what’s called “toxic positivity” for good reason -- because while it’s ostensibly “positive”, it also denies other people’s feelings, waving away everything negative and going “yeah, well, positivity!” and “optimism!” and “power of friendship!” and all sorts of stuff that are actually dismissive because they’re not showing any real effort to properly understand the other party and acknowledge why they feel this way. Like, sure, you may be telling someone to cheer up, but it also carries an (accidental or otherwise) implication of “you’re irrational and stupid for being upset and you should be smiling all of the time because ~positivity~.”

There is a lot of conflict in 02 -- especially because the theme of the morality of fighting is even more relevant, particularly in the case of the added question of “when the enemy in question is not an unambiguously evil sadist but a former friend in trouble”, and later the question of how someone who’s done horrible things in the past but is clearly making an active effort to make up for it should be treated. Daisuke, 02′s lead protagonist and carrier of a lot of its main themes, is ostensibly a simple-minded idealist, but even his theory of “positivity” and “always moving forward” has a lot of nuance beyond what you would usually see in this kind of anime lingo.

Context is also very important here. Adventure and 02′s stance being about “doing the best you reasonably can in a given situation”, it also means that what might be the best thing to do will change depending on context. 02′s starting circumstances are very different from Adventure’s, because it starts off without the threat necessarily being immediately world-threatening -- certainly, they need to stop the Kaiser, but this is in the form of a long-term territory war with an enemy who (at the time) doesn’t appear at night, and it’s unclear just how long it’ll take. This means that when the threat is not immediately world-ending, none of the kids are ever given grief for prioritizing their own personal obligations in lieu of fighting.

Iori and Jou do choose to ditch their kendo lesson and prep school exam (respectively), but they make it clear that they did this out of personal choice, and in fact this conversation opens with Armadimon apologizing to Iori for giving him grief for not coming, because he thinks Iori is perfectly within his rights to have stuck with the lesson! Perhaps, if the world were to end in a few hours, it would certainly be pretty idiotic to insist on sticking with a kendo lesson or prep school, because those things aren’t going to exist anymore if the world ends, but this is a very long and drawn-out territory war with no known end, and it’s understandable that these kids need to maintain their life necessities while straddling the balance between the war and their lives as a whole.

Again, they’re doing the best they can, and being a Chosen Child is about doing things because they want to, not because they have to.

This is especially because the Kaiser himself attempts to exploit the meaning of a Chosen Child in 02 episode 3 -- again, being a “Chosen Child” means being trusted to do the right thing with what you’re given, but the Kaiser basically betrayed that trust, and nobody was able to stop him from exploiting it and attempting a takeover with it. And Ken takes that title of “Chosen Child” and interprets it to mean he’s entitled to all of this -- but the other kids are Chosen Children just like him, and (at this point) all of them are simply choosing to do whatever they want with that.

And on the flip side, you have the Adventure seniors, who are a little nerfed by the Dark Towers, but as far as the way the younger 02 kids see them goes, there is no doubt that the 02 kids respect them deeply and are practically reliant on their support and advice, and their experience and maturity in comparison to themselves. The episode that establishes most how in awe the 02 kids are of their seniors is 02 episode 17, where they learn the details of the adventure in 1999, and so it’s not about how much combat power they’re displaying right now but rather how much experience they have in doing such amazing things. Likewise, their seniors are frustrated at their inability to help -- not because they see it as some obligated duty, but because they see their juniors trying their best to deal with an ongoing crisis and want to help, resulting in them providing support roles such as covering for them with a camp trip in 02 episode 18 and allowing them to do a long-term Digital World stakeout. For this, the younger 02 kids adore them and give them all of their respect.

02 episodes 10-11 are significant in juxtaposing the themes of “conflict” and “understanding each other’s feelings” -- at the end of 02 episode 10, we see Yamato punch Taichi, but he holds his hand to him right after, indicating that Yamato punched him not out of anger or condescension or scorn over Taichi’s hesitation to fight Agumon, but rather simply to snap him out of it for his own sake, knowing he wouldn’t take it offensively, so in other words, what looked like a “conflict” on its face was actually communication between the two, with neither of them treating each other with scorn.

The conflict at the end of the episode is over whether they should run the risk of killing Agumon in the process of fighting him to get him back from the Kaiser’s Evil Spiral-induced brainwashing (note that this is about the risk, since it’s not necessarily guaranteed they’ll have to kill him, and they still of course need to make a conscientious effort to prevent that outcome). Yamato, however, frames it in terms of very practical matters, and even takes Agumon’s own feelings into it while he’s at it: if they pull back purely for the sake of not running that risk, Agumon will end up being the Kaiser’s slave and killing machine and nothing will be resolved, whereas if they run the risk, the best outcome is that Agumon is saved (which is, fortunately, what happens!), and the worst outcome is that he’s killed, which is still a preferable outcome to him having to remain the Kaiser’s brainwashed slave used to kill other things en masse.

02 episode 11 further explores the theme of conflict in the face of “understanding each other’s feelings”, as it starts off with a fight between Daisuke and Takeru on the grounds of whether it’s okay to risk killing Agumon. Takeru’s stance is to side with Taichi’s decision, even if he doesn’t like it (again: just because some of these kids are able to make these decisions doesn’t mean they like it, and they’re doing it not because they’re callous but because they’ve thought hard about it and have decided it’s the best option they have!). Daisuke, being a bleeding heart, is appalled that Takeru could so easily endorse killing Taichi’s partner, and the two fight.

Note that the series does not “both-sides” this issue -- Taichi and Takeru’s stance is basically treated as the optimal course of action here -- but it also doesn’t invalidate Daisuke’s feelings of understandably being very shocked and appalled by this! Taichi and Yamato, in what initially seems like a violation of common sense, encourage them to be allowed to continue fighting, saying that it was essential to their friendship, and that confuses everyone present at the time -- but the meaning becomes clear by the end of the episode, when Takeru’s own Patamon is momentarily taken by the Kaiser and put at risk of himself becoming an Evil Spiral slave. Takeru blows up at Daisuke for hesitating (remember, this is one of his triggers), and eventually runs the exact same risk he’d advocated for Agumon with his own partner.

Remember what I said about “toxic positivity”? If everyone had just forced Takeru and Daisuke to shut up for the sake of “not fighting”, both of them might have remained angry at each other and stewing in silence, but because of the conflict, Daisuke himself personally witnessed Takeru run that risk for his own partner, presumably for the same reason (as much as the potential of Patamon being killed hurts him, the idea of Patamon being used as a killing machine is even more panic-inducing for him). With that, he understands that Taichi and Takeru made the decision to go ahead with this not out of callousness or cruelty, but because they sincerely felt they had to, no matter how much it pained them. Daisuke rails on himself for not understanding Takeru’s feelings better, and considering that he and Takeru never get in this vicious of a fight again, the point is: it wasn’t about whether they should form a friendship by fighting or not fighting in itself, it was about the fact that the two of them were able to get their feelings on the table, and that Daisuke was able to understand why Takeru endorsed what he did. (And this, too, is what it means for why Taichi and Yamato are friends now because they fought so much in the past -- back in Adventure, those fights ended up having them bare some very raw feelings to each other.)

While in the series itself, they’re successfully able to save Agumon anyway, Hurricane Touchdown presents a more unfortunate outcome of the “friendly fire” debate, in which Daisuke learns that the hostile Digimon kidnapping their seniors (and, later, a lot of other people) is Wallace’s own partner. Daisuke is so emotionally overwhelmed by this that he breaks down crying at the possibility of having to kill someone’s partner, knowing that he’d never be able to do something like this if it were V-mon, and Wallace gets him on board with an attempt to appeal to Chocomon without fighting.

This stance is not unreasonable, Wallace and Daisuke cannot be blamed for being hopeful, and, in the end, it’s admirable that they did make a conscientious effort to solve this with pacifism (again, this kind of attempt should be made, and it’s not good to beeline to the most violent solution for no reason). But unfortunately, once they meet Chocomon in the flower field, it turns out that not only is Chocomon beyond reason, he himself is also clearly out of his right mind and suffering through all of this, and Wallace finally relents and asks Daisuke to assist him in the fight (after having stayed in denial for half a movie about wanting to avoid this). Daisuke, witnessing all of this himself, agrees without hesitation, and eventually, it turns out that this decision for the best when Chocomon himself begs Gumimon and Magnamon to put him out of his misery, and them obliging (albeit hesitantly) allows him to have peace in death instead of suffering in life.

Hurricane Touchdown’s sequel drama CD, The Door to Summer, presents Daisuke with yet another dilemma with Nat-chan, who is also clearly suffering in quite a similar vein (the parallel is directly drawn). In the end, the same conclusion is reached -- Nat-chan is unfortunately killed, but is able to find release.

02 episode 16 presents an argument about the limits of ethical principles instead of approaching things practically, when Iori considers himself a horrible person for having told a lie to get Jou out of an important exam. This is mainly just about a lie, but in terms of Iori’s character arc and its relevance to 02′s themes as a whole, the point here is that there is a certain point where being too stuck on “the moral principle” of things instead of thinking practically is actually selfish in some sense. If Iori hadn’t lied, he’d get maybe one more point of moral integrity, and then everyone would have suffocated to death -- compared to lying and therefore everyone for the most part benefiting (Jou’s very happy to help his juniors and save them from, well, literally suffocating, after all). This topic becomes very important later when it turns out to be generally applicable to the wider morality of fighting that the kids later face in the series’s final cour.

The disparity between “moral principles” and “what actually happens in practice” also shows up in 02 episode 19, when Takeru loses his composure and starts punching out the Kaiser. Is the Kaiser a horrible person (at this point) who totally deserves this? Absolutely! Are we as the audience getting a lot of catharsis seeing his face punched out? Probably! But at the same time, railing at the Kaiser with unbridled anger is also...not actually accomplishing anything! Instead, Takeru’s just getting a few moments to stew in some really unhealthy emotions and uselessly punching out the Kaiser while nothing productive is getting done, and it’s also contributing heavily to his emotional isolation from Iori (and the rest of the group) because he’s not coping with it in a healthy way at all. Takeru’s feelings are certainly understandable (again: the episode is absolutely framing this in such a way that you’re inclined to take his side), but at the same time, being malicious about this is not actually practically making any headway.

One of the major reasons I’m covering all of these seemingly unrelated topics in one post is that all of them end up having a massive combined amount of relevance to the narrative behind Ken discarding the Kaiser persona, and how he comes to integrate himself with the group. On the surface, the storyline seems to be simply that Ken learned the error of his ways and tried to stop drowning in regrets, and Daisuke’s idealistic personality reached out to him and helped him heal. That said, there’s quite a bit more going on than just that.

A theme going on behind Ken’s character arc for the second half of 02 is one that probably seems a bit unusual for an idealistic kids’ show, but the point that ends up being made quite often is that whether Ken should be “forgiven” for his actions is a rather immaterial question. 02 episode 23 has a bunch of Baby Digimon rail on him, and remind him that he will never be able to take that back. There is nothing in either world that will erase those actions or make them retroactively justified or pushed under the bridge. The only thing he can do is accept the fact that it happened, whether he likes it or not, and determine what to do from here in terms of taking responsibility and making things right.

And this ends up having an influence in how Daisuke advocates for him, and how the rest of the group reaches out to him...

First of all, Daisuke being the most open-minded about Ken was not blind optimism. There’s no evidence that he was actually all that emotionally receptive to Ken or interested in being his friend before 02 episode 25. However, Daisuke also does not advocate for “punishing” Ken or kicking him while he’s down -- because that won’t accomplish anything, and Ken is clearly not in a state to be wreaking more havoc right now. Daisuke remembers the footage of Ken’s parents crying on screen, and determines what would be the first course of action to fix this situation -- and thus, he tells Ken to “go home”, because whatever Ken did in the past and no matter how much the team resents him right now, they are in this situation, with a boy who’s clearly not going to cause any more trouble right now and a family that’s hurting by his absence, and the very least he can do is do something productive from here on out.

Hence, at the end of 02 episode 24, when it turns out that Ken’s back and saved them from Thunderballmon, Daisuke decides to be optimistic about him and start the process of emotionally reaching out, but, again, it’s not blind optimism -- he sees what Ken did and takes this to mean “okay, clearly he’s not going to do bad things anymore, so regardless of whatever he did in the past, he’s helping out now, so we should check in with how he’s doing and let him help out.”

This is, of course, enhanced by the fact that Daisuke had communicated with the Crest of Kindness in 02 episode 20, but there’s also another layer to this: the major point of dispute between him and Miyako in 02 episode 25 (with both of them generally being rather open-minded about Ken otherwise) is in regards to the fact Ken and Stingmon were responsible for killing Thunderballmon in the prior episode. Come the climax of 02 episode 25, it is made clear that if Golemon successfully destroys the dam, the results will be absolutely disastrous, and there will probably be an incredible amount of casualties. Here, Daisuke himself is the first person to realize that killing Golemon may become a requirement (Ken is not actually a part of his initial comment) -- that is to say, most likely, the reason he’s willing to give Ken the benefit of the doubt about Thunderballmon is that he himself is understanding of that potential mindset (especially since 02 episode 43 does indeed establish Daisuke as being the first to accept it).

Recall that, between Daisuke, Miyako, and Iori, Daisuke was personally involved three years prior in a large incident with an unambiguously malicious Digimon that was about to claim a ton of victims -- he’s a bleeding heart, sure, but he’s also a bleeding heart for the potential victims, and the one thing that ate at him during the time of the Vamdemon incident was that he couldn’t do anything to protect everyone. Therefore, he’s the most receptive to this potential conclusion because he doesn’t want to see victims like that again. Not only that, Takeru and Hikari (having witnessed similar conclusions back in Adventure) are also very quick to point out that this might be an inevitability -- it’s just Miyako (who, in her emotional passion, is desperate to find a way out and clinging onto the hope that they won’t have to) and Iori (who considers doing such an act “no better than him” -- again, see the fixation on “moral principle” and “being above him”) who are so vehemently against it.

In the end, it turns out that Golemon is a Dark Tower Digimon (and therefore not sentient), and everyone’s left off the hook for now, but the reason this is still important is that through this, Miyako learns that Ken -- someone whom everyone was side-eyeing for potentially lapsing back into his cold, callous ways after supposedly having given up the Kaiser mantle -- was not out to kill (and, indeed, when the first kill inevitably happens in 02 episode 43, Ken is just as shaken about it as Miyako and Iori). The important part is that Miyako, and later the other kids, accepted Ken not out of some principle of optimism or forgiveness, but because they came to understand his position and feelings. All of the kids accepted Ken on their own terms after understanding his feelings and position better via interacting with him and hearing his own testimony -- they came to understand his mindset, what he’s been through and what he’s planning to do from here on out, and, most importantly, that he needs support really, really badly right now.

Which extends not just to Ken, but also everyone’s relationships here in general. Daisuke broke through to Ken and kicked off their first Jogress in 02 episode 26 because he proactively listened to everything Ken was saying and what he wanted to do, and correctly identified that Ken very desperately wants to take responsibility, so he talks him out of a reckless suicide mission by pointing out that all of his attempts to not make his family sad and to make up for everything he’s done are going to amount to nothing if he just throws his life away like this. In 02 episode 31, Miyako listens to Hikari’s troubles and her compulsion to not speak out for herself and reaches out to her successfully via promising to be there for her so she doesn’t have to slink into passive resignation. And in 02 episodes 34-36, Iori makes an active effort to understand Takeru’s mentality and why he has the drastic personality shifts he does, and communicates to Takeru that he wants to understand him better. So the point is: the 02 kids were able to successfully connect with each other and become deeper friends because they made an active attempt to listen to each other’s troubles and address the core of what they needed. They were only able to become “supportive” once they understood everything.

(02 episode 36 also has a moment where Iori’s about to rail off at everyone for not taking the fight seriously, before Armadimon reminds him that he’s starving -- again, it is very inhumane to ignore other needs and force everyone to keep fighting endlessly just because they theoretically can.)

We do meet the representative who claims credit for choosing Daisuke, Miyako, and Iori as Chosen Children in 02 episode 37 (Qinglongmon, representative of the Holy Beasts), and he explains the process of why they sent the kids what they did in order to retrieve Ken from the deep end. Notably, Qinglongmon admits that even the Holy Beasts were blindsided by a few things and adapted the situation as they saw fit (they didn’t originally expect the kids to be able to use multiple Digimentals at first). More importantly, this was, again, all a bit of a desperation move, because this was about as much as the Holy Beasts could manage, being sealed and drained of power and all.

Also, while retrieving Ken from the deep end was on the list of things the Holy Beasts set out to do, “everyone becoming Ken’s friend” was not necessarily on that agenda. Again: that was something that these kids chose to do on their own, by observing Ken’s actions and feelings and choosing to connect with him.

The episode ends with BlackWarGreymon going off on a journey of angst, and: note that the kids decide to drop the issue for the time being. Again, they’re operating not on a philosophy of grudge or whether one should get retribution for their actions, but what the likelihood of bad things continuing to happen is from here on out, and at this point in time, it doesn’t seem very likely, so there’s no point in pushing the issue or pursuing him.

Nevertheless, the morality debate over killing still remains looming over everyone’s heads, with Iori also realizing in 02 episode 29 that there are such things as Digimon that just want wanton destruction and cannot be negotiated with. The fact that the Adventure kids were put in world-threatening situations three years prior and are already far past this question is directly acknowledged in 02 episode 43, with Taichi advising Hikari that this harsh truth is going to hit the other four sooner or later, before it does eventually happen at the end of the episode. (Hikari visibly winces during her conversation with Taichi; again, none of the Adventure kids ever liked this.) And, in the end, predictably, Iori, Miyako, and Ken take it hard -- but Daisuke is the first to point out what would have happened if they didn’t do it. Namely, that the victims would have far outnumbered the Digimon they just killed.

It is, of course, good to be conscientious and not beeline for the most violent solution, and, again, context is important here -- in the situation provided, SkullSatamon was holding up a bus and split seconds away from murdering everyone in it. Had everyone refrained for the sake of morality, just like how Iori refraining from lying back in 02 episode 16 would have actually been selfish in a sense, here, the only claim you get to say after refraining is “well, I wasn’t the one who caused the harm.” Inaction would have caused the deaths of all of the young children in the bus; there would have been casualties either way.

Miyako and Iori are forced to face this truth again in 02 episode 44, with both of them being emotionally compromised by the reality of what they just did. In both cases, Hikari and Takeru step in to remind them what they’re doing this for, by pointing out the victims that would have been killed had they done nothing. Miyako and Iori are not at fault for being emotionally compromised or doing their best to prevent it -- it’s just that there’s only so much they can blame themselves for when they’re now directly faced with the potential victims in front of them.

Iori had already been grappling with this potential for several episodes now, so while he still takes it hard, more attention is given to Miyako’s reaction -- especially since she herself was the victim who was about to be murdered by LadyDevimon had Silphymon not done the kill. The voice acting and lack of Tailmon’s presence in Silphymon’s apology to Miyako implies very heavily that it was the Aquilamon side who took over and did it in a last-ditch effort to save Miyako’s life -- and he’s emotionally destroyed by it himself too, because he did it out of love for Miyako, and yet betrayed her request to not go for the kill. In the end, Miyako is forced to confront the fact that this was done out of love and a desire to protect, not a callous and malicious intent to murder, and comes to terms with it.

However, again: the series continues to reiterate that people who are not emotionally up for it should not be obligated to force themselves to do it. The beginning of 02 episode 45 has Takeru directly advise Iori that he shouldn’t do this out of obligation if he isn’t up for it -- remember that Takeru will only be able to fight with Shakkoumon if Iori is present, meaning that he’s perfectly willing to give up his ability to fight effectively because it’s not fair to force Iori to do it. This is not a series that advertises that everyone embrace the spirit of killing things and numb themselves to it. This entire situation sucks.

However, Iori makes it clear: he understands everything, and has decided to do it himself, because he understands the stakes and what it’s going to take to actually protect people.

Which is also reiterated in 02 episode 48 -- after witnessing the deaths of Archnemon and Mummymon at the hands of BelialVamdemon, everyone is shaken to the core. It should be established that the kids didn’t have much reason to sympathize with or like the two of them at this point, because everything we learned about them was from the audience’s point of view -- as far as the kids knew them, they were just two really rude and cruel Digimon who wanted wanton destruction. Yet even they are emotionally pained to see them die in such a cruel manner, and it causes everyone to hesitate -- even Daisuke, who does push forward because he knows what’s at stake, but still has to take a moment to collect himself.

Seeing what Daisuke’s about to do, Ken tries to force himself to join Daisuke so that Daisuke will at least not be alone (note that he actually says upfront that he’ll join!) -- but Daisuke notices that Ken’s heart isn’t in it, and actively advises him to sit out. Is the world in immediate crisis? Absolutely! But there is no scorn to be had for people who are emotionally falling apart right now and unable to get themselves to do it -- Daisuke even says himself that they won’t be able to fight effectively with Ken like this.

We close this analysis on a return to the concept of forgiveness and moving forward, and we learn in 02 episode 48 that Ken has two parts to his internal wishes: he wants the Kaiser (himself) to be “punished”, and he wants “forgiveness” from his deceased brother Osamu. Both of those things will certainly make him feel a little better emotionally, but they also won’t accomplish anything -- the “Kaiser” doesn’t exist anymore, so what good will that “punishment” do besides a little catharsis for the victims? And he can continue chasing after this standard of “whether he’s suffered enough” like it’s some numerical tally, but that’s not going to get him anywhere either, and it’s why Wormmon has to chase out even that ostensibly happy image of Osamu. Osamu is long gone, and is not going to return, and the question of whether Ken should be “forgiven” is rather immaterial. It’s not about whatever happened or didn’t happen back then; it’s about what Ken is going to do now.

Actually, what is “forgiveness” anyway? At no point do the 02 kids ever actually say they “forgive” Ken for his actions. In Spring 2003, Iori also says he doesn’t forgive Oikawa for what he’s done, either. There’s nothing that will ever erase what they did or suddenly make those actions retroactively justifiable, and there’s no arbitrary payment that Ken or Oikawa could do to meet some kind of quota of forgiveness. But what the kids do recognize in Ken is that, regardless of whatever he did in the past, at current he is a young boy in intense emotional distress who has gone through a lot, is working very hard to make up for his mistakes, and needs all the emotional support he can get, and there’s no reason to hold a grudge against someone like that instead of continuing to support him and loving him for who he is now. Given that, does it matter whether they “forgive” him or not?

And even if Iori will never forgive Oikawa, he can still lament everything that happened to him and drove him to do everything, and appreciate the meaning of what he did for the Digital World in the end, and use this as a further lesson on what it means to understand people instead of stewing angrily in a grudge that’ll only hurt himself.

Ultimately, that is the theory behind Adventure and 02. The world is messy, imperfect, and doesn’t fit under neat rules of morality and “right” or “not right” that you can cram everything under. Despite that, there’s something to be appreciated in not throwing in the towel and continuing to do the best you reasonably can in every situation. It would be ideal if all of the fighting could stop, or if it were possible to make the “optimal” decision of fighting or not fighting in every situation regardless of human exhaustion or emotional compromise, but that’s just not something that’s possible, and there’s no reason to call oneself a “failure” for not holding yourself to that standard. And in the end, the answer is this: instead of fixating on all of those arbitrary things that don’t actually serve any practical purpose, the way to live your best life is simply to look at where you are now, think about what you can do from here on out (regardless of what happened in the past), and do your best to protect and be kind to yourself and those around you.

Of course, you must be kind to others. But you have to be kind to others by understanding what it takes and everything around it -- and then choose to be kind anyway.

#digimon #digimon adventure #digimon adventure 02 #kizuna spoilers #shihameta

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ultraintrovertedgryffindor · 3 years ago

Note

Can you please do a sequel to the Thomas piece you posted?? I would love to see more of their “rekindled” (idk if that’s the right word) relationship evolve. Thanks so much!!

So, uh...I know what the doctor ordered and all, but I kinda made it real angsty cause I have no idea how to write anything other than angst so...yeah...🤡

Sorry if this was all over the place🤦🏻‍♀️

~~~~~~~~~~

Looking back on the past several months, you wondered if there was anything you could've done differently.

Maybe, if you just kept to yourself, none of this would be happening.

You and Thomas tried your best to get everyone out of the Maze, you really did. You knew there would be casualties, but you never thought it would be Chuck...or Newt.

After your memories returned, you and Thomas did everything in your power to try and convince the Gladers that you weren't the bad guys. Of course, Gally didn't take too kindly to that news; and when Teresa came up in the Box, all hell broke loose.

You had no idea how you managed to get out of that situation, but thankfully you had more than just Thomas and Teresa on your side. You escaped the Maze. You escaped W.C.K.D. You saved Minho and countless other kids that were taken. Now...you were safe, as crazy as it sounds.

A part of you wished you never got your memories back. You wished you could've just stayed in the Glade with Chuck, Newt, Alby, Ben, or even Teresa. It was hard to not blame yourself, because you were to blame. Maybe none of this would've happened if you just stayed away from Thomas.

Sure, you harbored a bit of resentment. Not just at him though, the whole situation was fucked up, and you knew that, it wasn't fair to blame it all on one person.

Seeing so many of your friends die, in part, because of you, put a strain on your relationship with Thomas. It sucked, because you all were on the run for so long that you didn't even get a chance to spend quality time with him. All you had was your memories to keep you company, which is more than anyone else could say. Which, you guessed, made you lucky.

All these memories coming back to you in an instant, remembering how Thomas was then compared to who he is now, it took some getting used to. Before the Maze, you had a very specific idea of who Thomas was, who he was to you. He was your best friend. He was your partner. He was your soulmate. So why did you start to see things so differently?

It was subtle, at first, just little things you disagreed on from time to time. Like, how you both handled conflict. Then, when Gally became a problem, you had very different ideas on how to handle him. Ultimately, that problem came to a head quickly and you had no choice but to go along with Thomas' plan.

But after escaping the Maze, you two practically disagreed with everything. Granted, looking back, you wished you had agreed on certain things. You were ashamed of yourself for how you treated the Winston situation. When he got infected, you already came to the conclusion that he was just dead weight. Obviously, Thomas had an issue with that. You were never that close to the kid, neither was Thomas, but he was still dead set on dragging him across the desert. It was only when Winston tried to kill himself is when Thomas finally broke.

You apologized to Thomas that night, but he surprised you when he said he understood where you were coming from. He knew Winston would've make it, but he was too stubborn and scared to admit it to himself. That moment was the first time you kissed him since you had gotten your memories back, and Thomas kissed you back.

You always made a strong effort to see things Thomas' way, even if he didn't notice it. But your opinions were so strong sometimes, that you'd completely ignore the pit in your gut that told you that he'd never agree, even if you made a compelling argument. It was frustrating. You knew that some of your ideas were a bit lackluster, you came from a more inconspicuous, strategic approach when it came to plans, whereas Thomas was more guns blazing. But when it came to Minho's rescue mission, both of your views came in handy.

Even now, you wondered if you had went along with Thomas' plan of attack, would Teresa still be alive? Would Newt? Obviously, you had no way of knowing. But just the thought that maybe you might've been at fault made you shut down sometimes.

You had yet another argument with Thomas, and you just couldn't handle being around him anymore. It wasn't the smartest of plans, but you snuck out of camp and wandered into the forest away from the beach. Even in the heat of your rage, you were almost positive you could find your way back again, so you didn't worry. All you tried to focus on was steadying your heartbeat, but all you could do was take an unpleasant trip down memory lane.

It probably should've worried you that it was getting dark really quick. If you were still at camp, you could probably still see the sun going down. But the forest pretty much blocked out all light, even the moon just barely peaking through the trees. But you stayed, suspended a couple feet in the air, sitting on a sturdy tree branch.

Your wrist started to itch, the annoying stinging sensation forcing you out of your state of tranquility and back into the real world. You had to physically stop yourself from huffing, rolling your eyes when you realized that he was close by.

Ever since that day in the Maze, you could always sense Thomas' presence, the ink in your skin giving off a slight burning feeling whenever he was close by. It would start off dull, barely noticeable. The feeling would intensify the closer Thomas would be in proximity until it completely stopped.

"Y/n?"

"Go away." You quickly replied harshly, not even turning around to look at him.

"You need to come back to camp, it isn't safe out here."

"Oh, like it's any safer across the ocean." You sighed.

This was the hundredth disagreement, Thomas wanted to go back to the mainland. His hero complex finding it difficult to just stay in the Safe Haven while there may be other people in need of help. Teresa seemed to finally break him from beyond the grave. He wants to find a way to replicate the cure that she gave to him before she sacrificed herself.

You thought it was stupid. You kept thinking about everyone that has been hurt, everyone that was murdered, all their friends that were experimented on by W.C.K.D. in their hopes of finding a cure. Thomas held the cure in his hand, but it's always never enough. It's like he has to put himself in danger to find a purpose in life. You were almost sure that they was no purpose, just survive.

In the Glade, you had more hope, surprisingly. Without your memories, you woke up with a tiny bit of hope, hope that the world outside the Maze would be better. But then it wasn't. You remembered how shitty the world really was, it even made you miss the Glade. It was a cage, that's for certain, but it almost seemed like you were safer there.

Sure, you were safe now. But your experiences in the Maze combined with all your memories that you had to deal with, you changed, you and Thomas both. Sometimes, it didn't really feel like you were the same people before you lost your memories. Maybe that's why you two were at odds constantly, maybe you two weren't actually soulmates. Who knows what put those tattoos on your skin, it could've been W.C.K.D. for all you knew. It was a very disheartening thought.

"Come on, Y/n. This again, seriously?" Thomas scoffed. "I thought you of all people would understand why I need to do this. If we can replicate the cure, who knows what that could mean for us? For the whole world?"

You sighed, jumping down from the tree branch and standing to face him. "Thomas, I never said we shouldn't try to make more cures. I just think it's idiotic to try and go back to that hellscape."

"It's not that I want to, we don't have the proper tools here that can make it easier to remake the serum."

"Last time we were there, all those buildings were being blown up. Most likely, it's all rubble and ash by now. There wouldn't be anything left to salvage."

"But not impossible."

"Thomas..."

"It's not impossible. Those specific buildings might be gone now, but you know how many more W.C.K.D. facility's there are. We have those coordinates."

"Those buildings are probably overrun by Cranks."

"But there still might be equipment left, and that's enough for me. We owe it to Teresa to try."

You rolled your eyes. "We don't owe her anything, Thomas. She betrayed us all, remember?"

"She saved my life. Our life. Surely, you remember that." You didn't reply. "She was like a sister to you, Y/n. Those feelings aren't just something that goes away overnight."

"It's easier when you remember she always had an agenda to begin with." You snapped, but quickly felt guilty when you saw the tears in Thomas' eyes. Your gaze softened. "Replicating the cure isn't gonna bring her back...we have to move on."

"I know...I know it won't bring her back..." Thomas whispered, slowly sitting down on this forest floor.

You sighed, kneeling down beside him. "I admire that you...want to save the world. But you shouldn't go on a suicide mission because of one person who's not even alive anymore." You said as softly as possible, the chirps of insects around you almost drowning you out.

"You think this is just about Teresa?" Thomas quickly asked, furrowing his brows.

You shrugged. "I know how hard you took her death. And yeah, it's been hard for me too. I was just so angry at her that I didn't allow myself to mourn. But I honestly think that Teresa wouldn't want you to kill yourself over this cure just for her."

Thomas let out a bitter chuckle, shaking his head. "It was never just about her. I...I couldn't save Newt. He wasn't immune, and I am. And I could've saved him if I had just listened to Teresa. So many people on this island aren't immune. Including you...if there's even the slightest chance I could make more cures in order for you to be safe...it's more than enough for me. I can't lose you too."

"Thomas..."

"I can't lose you."

You shook your head, quickly grabbing onto Thomas' hands. "Hey," You said softly, "you're not going to lose me."

"How do you know?"

"Thomas, no one here has the virus. And we're so far away from the mainland...don't you think it would be affecting people already if it could reach us here?"

Thomas stayed silent, casting his gaze to the forest floor dejectedly.

You sat closer to him, resting your head on his shoulder, but still keeping your hands on his. "Thomas, I think the worst is over now. We don't have W.C.K.D. hanging over our heads, and we're not running for our lives anymore...we shouldn't have to worry about this kind of stuff anymore."

"Sometimes it's hard to believe that we don't have to run for our lives anymore..." Thomas whispered softly.

You frowned, leaning more into Thomas. "I know...I've been feeling the same way."

Thomas brought up your wrist, kissing his tattooed name gently. "I'm sorry. I hate arguing with you."

You smiled weakly. "It's okay. I'm sorry too."

"I remember you telling me that my stubbornness will get me killed someday." He chuckled, then sighed. "You weren't wrong. I know I'm stubborn."

"Hey, it's not just you. I know I'm stubborn too."

"We make such a good pair, don't we?" He joked.

The thought about the origins of your tattoos came back into your mind, causing you to frown slightly. "Do you ever think about our tattoos?" You asked hesitantly. "Like, about how they got there in the first place?"

Thomas inhaled deeply. "Yeah. I have."

"Do you think W.C.K.D. is the one who put these here?" You asked, rubbing your thumb over Thomas' tattoo.

"I don't know...maybe. But even if they did, it doesn't matter to me. I love you, and that'll never change."

You looked up at Thomas, seeing that he was already looking at you with a small smile. You felt your face heat up when he moved a strand of your hair out of your face, his fingers lingering on your cheek. "Thomas...?"

"Hmm?"

You leaned in and placing your lips against his gently. "I love you too."

~~~~~~~~~~

yes, i'm aware this was a bit of a mess lmao. hope you enjoyed regardless

#the maze runner #the maze runner imagine #tmr thomas #thomas x reader

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