#im sorry if it upsets anyone but its a point of view this fandom is either missing or activley ignoring

[stump-not-found]

hellooo haiii :]

i saw a while ago that you said that you were fiddleford hater among lovers… do you mind speaking more on that? (sorry i really liek hearing ur views on stuff)

uhh yeah you know what i'll talk a lil about it . why not . i can share some analysis as a treat . will tuck my thoughts gently behind a readmore, so sweet and softlys

i think fiddleford is a fine character its just irritating when narratively he's treated as this very tragic figure when he's an adult man capable of making his own choices . this is a flaw with the books, to be clear - i do not think the actions of fiddleford align with the explicit narrative he has as a nice guy who had a terrible thing happen to him, which stanford must feel soul-crushing guilt over .

this is what bothers me about him: that he is intended to be read as just an all around good dude with tragic circumstances, rather than a messy guy who made shit-ass terrible decisions every step of the way

not even talking about fandom mischaracterization. that's a given in any collaborative fan space and i don't really hold it against people for doing that . fandom is fun, play with your dolls, do whatever - all that mostly means is im not gonna vibe w/ a lot of fanart, it's not going to impact my opinion of the character . i do think it's funny how the collective fanonization of him is simultaneously the wettest meow-meow, but also a total badass when . he's so fundamentally conflict adverse he destroys his own life and body over it .

my man fucks raccoons . i guess that's badass in it's own way . i guess

the thing that is compelling about fidds to me is he is a bit of a worm, and that worminess winds up destroying him from the inside out . he really embodies the entire concept of 'inaction is action', in a way that's deeply frustrating in both fun and not so fun ways

some of the fun things we know about fiddleford:

leveled the downtown area of palo alto

built a robot to try and kill his wife when she tried to divorce him

built robots to kill kids because his son wasnt paying attention to them

brain blasts people to get free labor out of them

started a cult to brain blast people

so horny for Cthulhu Columbo that he did not get his son a christmas present . not a single Tonking Truck . i know your brain is half melted at this point but cmon man

i don't really think the whole leaving his wife in the 70's is all that cute either . it's a one off joke, and there's something interesting about the fact that it's a one off joke . like what kind of financial freedom do people think a single mother is gonna have in this time period? why is that something that goes unchallenged?

and the fact he leaves them for a year is just like . that's also fucked man . i can personally attest to how fucked it is to have your dad just piss off for a year to do contractor work . what a wild subplot to be treated with such little narrative importance to his character . like . the fact that it holds so little importance to fidds is a narrative all on its own

it's just weird how the story treats him, man . he's not that endearing of a dude, which is what i like about him . i like that he makes bad decisions . i like that he doesn't respect when people say "no" . characters should make bad decisions and be bad people . i just really hate this presentation of his own actions being the fault of anyone other than fiddleford

oh also the research paper stint was insane . wild to me that that was presented in the story as like a cool or kind thing to do to someone . like that's a very reasonable boundary for stanford to be upset about being crossed, and its wild how that's presented as him being a jackass . there are MANY things that make ford a piece of shit . being upset about a guy doing something like that behind your back is not one of them

tho that's a whole other conversation about how ford as a character is defined by never having his boundaries respected, and this never being challenged, and in fact he should just be okay with it when it happens by the "right" sorts of people . once an object, always an object . love him

[booksandmore]

I’m sorry but CC only has herself to blame for making TMI known as “the incest books” in all of the reading communities outside of TSC fandom.

She herself ruined TMI becoming as big as it could’ve been & TSC in general by putting incest in all 6 books of TMI…That’s why no one posts about it on Booktwt or Booktok..

There’s no point in being upset at readers judging TMI for having incest in it when that’s a valid criticism.. Clace kissed multiple times for three books all while not being officially sure whether or not they were related or not..then CC got petty & doubled down on the incest after being criticized for it already & had Clary kiss her biological brother in book three after people already hated it with Clace in the first two books.

Clary’s brother almost rapes her in book five and tries kissing her in the last book. TSC is not GOT where it gets a pass. Non TSC stans really want a LI calling his girlfriend’s Dad his own Dad 💀 Jace was calling Clary’s brother his brother while being romantically involved with Clary. Just because he was adopted by Valentine as a kid didn’t make it normal for Cassie to have Jace call himself a Morgenstern or to call his girlfriend’s brother his own brother.

TMI hate = CC’s own fault.. any TMI stan bitterness should be directed at her own questionable writing choices. Sorry but seeing TMI stans hating that TMI is judged for this all when it’s the authors own fault is weird yk? It’s been too long, Cassie understands why TMI gets hate. As a TMI stan it makes me upset that she dragged the incest on the entire series because I can’t proudly ever talk about Clace, Seb or TMI as a whole because she got weird with the writing in that series on purpose to spite people who criticized the incest in Books 1-2. It was petty for her to drag on incest for that long knowing people hated it..It’s her fault.

I’m tired of people outside of the fandom being judged for not liking the incest for Clary with two Mmc’s when..it’s valid not to like or be comfortable with. TMI stans always having to make excuses for her too is even sadder bc it’s not our fault or other readers’ it’s the authors fault for putting that in a fun YA series that didn’t need incest AT ALL. That’s probably why the show was a flop and the movie, no one could take the series seriously with that arc for Clary with Jace and her brother Sebastian..

no yes i totally get it!! it is frusterating to see tmi get dismissed but im not gonna force anyone to do anything they dont like. it’s valid to not want to interact with something cause it grosses you out, i’ve definitly done that before as well. we all have our limits and that’s okay!! that said feel free to ignore the rest of this i just wanted to explain my thoughts more thoroughly but it got a bit long😭you might not like anon sorry

first of, i do admit it’s been a while since my reread and also, i haven’t touched the other series since i first read them so i can really only speak for tmi rn, and if i get anything wrong that’s on me

i should probably clarify that my original posts were create because i was just so baffled that people were sayong cc has some kind of incest kink and that’s why she was forcing it into her books. like?? an author choosing to engage with darker taboo topics doesn’t mean they’re into it im pretty sure. its not like i know her personally, but if she had a kink i sort of suspect it would show up in the rest of her books yk? is it really that hard to imagine that she’d include it for a reason?😭

for me, maybe because i’m used to books like the secre t history or older classics, i tend to look past the taboo of it and focus on what it does for the story/reveals about charchterization, if that makes sense?

i think that tmi is very much about family, and sebastian having these fucked up views about family (where he mistakes romantic love for familial love) really goes to show how horrible valentine was as a father, and how terribly he was treated and how desperate he was for love. i think he doesnt know what it means to be loved by family and that’s why he substitutes it with something else. cause i think that deep down inside he does have a normal brotherly love for clary, its just that he doesnt know any other way to show that

for me the incest thing is a plot device and it frusterates me how no one wants to engage with it that way. could it have been done differently? probabaly. but they don’t even try to examining why it’s there at all! they don’t bother analyzing or asking, hey, does the author have any particular reason for putting this here, or writing it the way she did? they just dismiss it as gross and go away. but i really do think it has a purpose and point in the story that gets lost on a lot of people

the thing is, it’s meant to be uncomfortable! it’s meant to be gross! it should weird you out!! i doubt cc meant it to be viewed positively, especially when neither the charchters nor the narrative does. it’s meant to show how badly these adults and this society have fucked up these children, and robbed them of being able to love freely and safely yk?

most of my frusteration really just comes from how puritanical fandom has been. you can choose not to engage with something if it grosses you out, that’s fine and valid and we’ve all done that before. but looking down on someone for wanting to engage with it objectively is??? i think it’s just etiquette to not engage with what you don’t like. block the tag. curate your own experience. that kinda stuff

again anon if you chose to read this anyway i really do respect and understand what you’re saying. i’m really sorry if i came across as mean or rude but like. i really really love tmi and i cannot tolerate it being dismissed like that

[youlooklikeabeeandilikebees]

I was surprised to see you put george in absolute best - did you like him the whole time??? I had moments where I loved him but he ended up being too irredeemable for me so im curious to hear your thoughts

he's always been one of my favorites, if not my absolute favorite character! a character being entertaining is way more important to me than their likability and I am almost always entertained by george. take owen for example: i absolutely hate him and don't find him likable because he is a smug murderous abuser but i find him very entertaining. the show has lots of great villains who are awful people but we all love them because they are charismatic and fun to watch. I feel the same way about george.

he brings a lot of the show's humor and i like his awkwardness. his nerdyness and intelligence contrasts well with his monstrous side and i like seeing his progression in season 1 towards becoming more accepting of himself. i will also admit that out of the 3 supernaturals in the show, i find werewolves more interesting than vampires and ghosts. i know a lot of fans of the show are more into the vampire stuff and i like it too but i just like werewolf storylines more anyway so that's definitely part of why i like george.

in season 2 we see how much george was affected both by killing herrick and by his relationship with nina falling apart in addition to his guilt about infecting her. even if he's not always at his most likable throughout that season we see character progression. a boring character is stagnant and doesn't change. seeing a character change and grow (for better or worse) makes them more dynamic. a character with flaws is more interesting than a character who is perfect and never does anything wrong. there are characters on the show who i find likable but mostly boring (like hugh or sykes).

i didn't put season 2 george on a lower tier like i did with mitchell because i was still entertained by george in that season, whereas i find mitchell's s2 vampire king storyline one of the least interesting storylines in the whole show (sorry anyone who loves it, just not for me).

HOWEVER i do wish the show had addressed him cheating on nina with daisy a bit more since nina never actually finds out about it (although he heavily implies it in that scene in episode 3x05(?) and i always thought it was weird that nina never confronted him because she is very smart and i would think she'd be able to figure it out). that felt like a totally unresolved aspect of their relationship and seems like a common complaint about george's character. i do find it kind of funny that most fandoms view adultery as worse than murder since i see people criticize george for cheating but never see people criticize mitchell for the box tunnel 20. im guessing it's because mitchell is seen as unable to control himself and will inevitably fall back into his dark side whereas george knew what he was doing (but i do wonder if it being post-full-moon when george cheated on nina was a factor in that decision with the wolf and its more primal tendencies influencing him more than other times of the month. im not justifying george's actions here but it's just interesting that i never see that possibility discussed while mitchell is granted more leeway for what is a much worse crime).

my least favorite version of george is in 4x01 and i agree with what other people have said about it feeling like a weird one-off episode that doesn't feel like the show we know. the whole episode feels like it only exists to kill off george but not before butchering his likability. he's just a husk of himself and his complete detachment from his daughter to the point of not even naming her is really upsetting. i get that grief can do that but i wish the writers would've went a different direction. i would've much preferred them killing off both nina and george in this episode so that we could've seen them parenting together while also dealing with losing mitchell. george comes off as sort of selfish to me in the way that his grief for nina completely overshadow annie's grief for both nina AND mitchell. the episode doesn't leave enough room for annie's feelings. I wanted to see him and annie coming together, not them being driven apart because he barely lets anyone else into the nursery. so he definitely loses likability for me here but i think a lot of that is that it's just an awkward episode that's really more of a stepping stone between 3x08 and 4x02.

i do find it really interesting how the fandom seems to criticize george more than mitchell. i think mitchell sacrificing himself because he knows he will never be able to control himself forever allows him to be redeemed in the end and he is given a heroic send off. george ALSO gets a heroic send off by saving his daughter and killing griffin but for whatever reason people don't seem to view him as redeeming himself as much as mitchell did.

so i guess my answer to your question is that george is still one of my favorites despite where his character ended up because:

he's very funny

i like werewolves and the contrast of his personality to what he is

russell tovey is a great actor who is good at both comedic and dramatic moments

i like his relationships with nina, annie, and mitchell

his character evolves and has ups and downs throughout the seasons

most of all, i am consistently entertained by him

[rise-my-angel]

can i ask why you don't like tess and joel together? i always love hearing your insight about shows!! i'd love to hear your thoughts/ opinions on this pairing!

A few reasons, and I'm not trying to step on any toes it just seems like I'm in quite the minority. Part of it is my own understanding, in the games remaster there are lines added that gave people the idea that Tess and Joel may have slept sometime in their past. I personally never read it that way. Only previous shippers evet talked about it. So I went into this show never believing that was even a thing.

Now on the shows own mertits, its weak. In episode one, the dramatic tonal shift from pre to post outbreak is entierly about Joel. A bleaker colour palette, quiet deep tones, and a somber soundtrack. It is purposley matching to Joel being a man who refuses himself any comfort beacuse he doesn't feel enough like a real person anymore to want it. Joel isn't a character only meant to be gruff to loving for just Ellie, its who he is now as a whole. Even the drinking is followed with close ups of Joels bitter reactions like not even his only vice brings him anything. He then falls asleep drugged on his bed and I did not feel right about watching her climb imto his bed to cuddle him while Joel is passef out from drugs. He doesn't wake up until shes already let him go and off the bed. It was for her and felt very wrong and rings to parts of me that know how easily people brush men being taken advantage of.

If you were in any kind of romance or relationship that looks like the way Joel and Tess interact you'd know thats not healthy. They are friends and long time smuggling partners, but are clearly two very different and difficult people who seem to be tired of putting up with the other. Walking away to force Joel to house Ellie as she gets to go to hers. So strike the idea she lives there, she doesn't and I assume she, Joel, and Tommy had keys to the others places beacuse their work is illegal and need privacy. So she walked into not her home and tries to cuddle Joel while he is passed out on drugs as he turns away from her only to have her stop before he wakes up. To me that implies she knows, that Joel would be upset if he woke up to that. Like she knows she shouldn't do it but does beacuse Joel is too drugged to even be concious.

Second episode I have a lot to say. Joel and Tess are at odds this entire episode. He and her either argue or are contentious towards the other in more then one way. They work together because they are friends but are fed up with being around each other.

The episode is a mirror for Joel. He is silent and watchful and it's all towards Ellie. Telling Tess not to fill Ellie with hope when neither of them are sure she is actually immune yet because he thinks letting a dying girl beleive she has a future is cruel. He is the one always doing the actionable thing for Ellie and when he does Tess fades silent into the background of the scene beacuse now it's a representation of Joel's focus. Ellie. Tess if there, but not when Ellie's in front of him. Tess talks to Ellie like an adult asking about boyfriends and joking about how she got bit. Joel stands in the background. Trying to push Ellie onto Tess so he can shive away this protective instinct but you can see the conversation bothers him. Theres no joke in Ellie getting bit because its a miracle she survived. Her safety isn't funny to Joel nor is he willing to cope with the danger as a joke.

Later, Joel is quiet and distant unlike how easy Tess is to talk to. If you didn't catch it, but as soon as Joel breaks the silence Ellie tries to prevent it from stopping. Shes awkward and decides to mimic the questions Tess asked her. But Joel doesn't think Tess should talk to Ellie like an adult so he shuts down Ellie trying to emulate thay behavior. He isn't here to find a friend in her and thinks Ellie needs to be treated like a kid because he knows he still has to be the one to protect her.

When Tess starts lashing out, theres a tense frustration in Joel and its why he walks away from her without even trying to ask anything. He's fed up and only finds a peaceful sombre moment looking at the view with Ellie.

Then, he watches Ellie go down the ladder and stands alone. Looks at his watch, his mind making a correlation of talking to Ellie with being reminded of Sarah. The next sequence is Joels rude awakening.

Joel gets pissed off and finally yells at Tess, only to be bombarded with news. That Tess hid a bite from them, that she doesnt have long to go, and that he needs to take Ellie.

Its not about Tess. Joel has only thought of Ellie this episode and this moment is the culmination. Not only is he realizing that his friend hid from them that she's about to die, that a hoard is coming and she's going to do something quite drastic.

His face screams of a man realizing how terrified he is of reliving his nightmares. That he now is forced to deal with his attachment to Ellie and cannot just ignore it now. Hes in pain of what hes so terrified to relive with another kid but knows its what matters.

He said nothing to Tess. Barley looks at her. No words, no goodbye, no anything. Just terror at how real his nightmares are about to become. His final moment with Tess is to ignore her.

He decides he cares about Tess way less then he cares about Ellie and thats all that matters. His turn go grab Ellie is so quick and desperate, refusing to let her go as he forces them outside beacuse he refuses to let anything get in the way of her saftey.

Tess didn't convince Joel of anything. People who think that moment was any influence from Tess missed the entire point of the episode. Whatever Tess felt for Joel was confirmed to be one sided in that scene. That Joel has never looked at her in that way, never loved her and he refuses to spent Tess's final moments with her when he has spent all episode protecting Ellie at every turn. Thats the only place his heart is.

There is next to no chemistry between them either. Pedro has put no engagement into whatever the actress tried to push. It's only there because I think the fandom is blinded by wanting Pedro in a romance.

I've watched and rewatched and there was never even a moment I sort of saw what the shippers were saying. Reducing Tess to Joels love interest is insulting to her character and decideing that in an episode dedicated to Joel's silent growing attachment to Ellie, is actually all about Tess in the end and thats his driving force and motivation is so insulting to Joel.

Joel's heart is only belonging to one person. A person he spends all episode seeing echoed in Ellie. Tess was the catalyst that forced Joel to realize his trauma was truly about to torment his life and live him in fear of failing again.

Joel's entire character in these two episodes is a reflection of Joels internal struggle of accepting fatherhood. He doesn't love Tess and he never did. He abandons her without any words to protect what he can no longer ignore that he actually cares for.

Giving Tess ANY influence on how Joel sees and interacts with Ellie is doing a massivr disservice to the true painful tramatic struggle hes felt the past 2 episodes.

And making Tess in love with Joel just made her interactions with him like the bed scene feel incredibly manipulative and taking advantage of a broken man who doesn't want her in his life like that.

Not everyone has to agree obviously, and I am a huge minority that not only doesnt ship them, but actively thinks they were not only never invovled but that Joel had never had feelings for her or loved her. I'm very alone in that opinion.

But I think its worth exploring why I feel it, because I think it takes a massive impact away of the thematic narrative structure around Joels entire character. If you disagree thats fine, I haven't engaged in your posts at all because I don't want an argument.

But many people have been rude, attacking and very unkind to people who don't support the joel tess ship. And I should be allowed to state why I think their interpretation misses the entire point of what Joels reactions and interactions mean.

Normally I wouldn't be so vocal about a ship I dislike. But this fandom has shown very ugly colours towards people who don't support a ship that has now been confirmed to never exist.

[voiceofsword]

sry to bitch in your inbox abt this but im so glad you pointed out how so many modern enstarries Dont read the stories and base everything off fandom perception.. i saw these users joking about which character would say slurs and someone was ADAMANT rinne would and tho i knew it before it Really struck me then

a) none of them have ever engaged with this text in any meaningful way, ESPECIALLY not the first games' stories, because surprise! characters in es! did Canonically use slurs! and back then Nobody Liked It. we didnt joke about it. most people i know completely stopped paying attention to the characters who did until they apologized. (tho ofc its more a problem w the writing than the characters, but still. we were young. we had the spirit.)

b) people really like using rinne as a punching bag because they dont read the stories and know literally nothing about him except funny drunk drugs gamble man "fuckboy" who harasses niki and the other bees and its. infuriating.

i dont understand how anyone can claim to like a media without ever properly engaging with it, i dont understand how people have fun misunderstanding characters so drastically, and i also think joking about slurs has gotten wayyy too normalized where people feel comfortable saying these things about these characters they allegedly like. and characters like rinne (with a constructed mask of obnoxiousness and such) are the perfect target for these people. which SUCKS. all of it sucks.

NEVER BE SORRY!!!! i hope this is alright to post i thought your ask was good and insightful and i'll add onto it a little bit with my own thoughts (heart emoji)

yeah um ! was definitely a ride. i wouldnt recommend it to everyone but at least we have hindsight and things like slurs and general offensive terms/behaviors can be warned for, so that much is nice. i remember being really upset about a few of these, and then getting back into enstars earlier this year and reading a few of the more current stories + !! stories i was happy to see that the writing has developed CONSIDERABLY in terms of this especially after beasts. something ive noticed a lot of newer fans do (referencing my previous post irt the feeling morally superior) is that if you like a specific character for whatever reason youre actually a horrible person because that character said something awful once. of course youre allowed to dislike characters for whatever reason but dont tell other people they should perish because they like them (as if liking them means you implicitly agree with said views, more often than not One line in a miriad of stories that you might not even have read). but like you said, characters making ignorant comments (an unfortunate occurrence, although rare, it still happens) is not a reflection of 2d pixels on a screen but rather a team of writers..... idk. its a complicated situation. i see both sides and i think people are justified in liking or disliking but this is a game about idol boys (and girl) got dam

yeah i hate how people treat rinne a lot. like because characters like him and eichi are villains that means everything that they do or say is, at worst, a straight, physical threat to everyone around them, or at best, an annoyance that can make the fandom feel justified in making them the butt of reoccurring jokes. idk what else to say about him that i havent said already but its also 3 am now and i SAID i was gonna go to sleep an hour ago but i think i might just be a filthy liar

ALSO its probably because enstars is long, there's a lot to read and although tl's arent necessarily hard to come by you actively have to seek them out. again i understand how this might be a nuisance but instead of sitting down and listening to summaries or analysis ive noticed that a lot of short form consumption content lends itself to people just. posting the most reactive interpretations, and people playing a game of telephone with said information until a lot of the fandom has come to accept this misinformation as true. LIKE SOMEONE ON TIKTOK SAYING HAJIME AND WATARU WERE RELATED? IDEK IF THAT WAS A JOKE OR NOT? and yeah the use of slurs is like ridiculously normalized now im not one to say whether people can or cannot reclaim slurs and people are free to do as they like if they can. i see this one thing specifically with tatsumi a lot where people jokingly bring up how said character is homophobic or make homophobic comments towards characters even if theyre being like. excited or happy. and idk. personally it makes me sad. like maybe its fandom culture now maybe im old (is 23)

WHY WOULD RINNE SAY SLURS HES LITERALLY GAY AND IN LOVE....COME AWN NOW

[something--wicked]

I.am.tired. "can we all agree that billy is a villain and" or "can we all let him be a villain" No. We cannot ALL AGREE. Why WHY are people so obsessed with their viewpoint being the one and only true one of a planet over 7 bilion people? You want to see Billy as villain? Go ahead, the fuck do I care. But why have the arrogance of wanting everyone to agree with this? It is SO annoying I don't know how to deal with this anymore... Sorry for coming to you with this but you and several other blogs I follow are my heroes for having the energy and courage to call certain people out on their bullshit with class and facts while I can't and instead hide behind anonymity... Thank you. <3

hi anon im sorry im just now seeing this message!! but yes i agree and thank you for the kind words. i welcome you and anyone else to come to me with anything if you wanna chat or if you just want to rant its totally fine!! my response under the cut bc i went on a bit of a rant myself lol

I agree that it is extremely annoying and exhausting (which is why i dont really get involved, instead i just say things in the tags and reblog things others have said) because honestly i dont have the time or energy to constantly fight a losing battle against strangers on the internet who dont know me or my life. Honestly you shouldn't give me much credit because i dont fight nearly as much as others in this fandom do, i sort of just mind my business most of the time lol. I commend the ones who do actively engage with antis and try to have discussions with them! If i were better with words and had more time id be right there with them. Honestly, the reason its so bad right now is because st is so popular in the mainstream rn. Once the hype dies down, itll get better, and once the show ends itll get wayyy better. (honestly thats why im glad my favorite shows are older/lesser known. Like, no one is getting this worked up about fringe lol)

When it comes to antis, unfortunately, people have always been obsessed with their viewpoint being the correct one. Since our species gained sentience the thing weve used it for the most is to fight with other humans over who is right and who is wrong. religion, politics, wars are fought in the name of one viewpoint being right and better than the others. Not to compare fandom drama to literal war and historical events, but you see my point. Its just the way people are. People can be kind and arrogant and nice and nasty. We all have the capacity and the right to get upset when our views are challenged, but what matters is how we respond. I literally used to be a billy anti, (i was 17 and still living with my abusers, had a really fucked up worldview) i wasnt rabid about it and didnt really talk about it but i agreed with people when they said he was racist and a bad person and didnt think twice about his character. (honestly forgot he existed until recently.) but eventually, i grew up, i got out, and i got help. I didnt even like billy until less than a year ago. im 23 now, and im a very different person than i was when i was 17. I went back into the st fandom spaces when st4 came out and somehow ended up in the billy corner, and i listened to what they had to say. And i realized that i was wrong, and changed my opinion. I started to see what i couldnt before. I even talked to my therapist about it (and even her, my 72 year old fan of stranger things therapist, agreed that billy is the most complex and interesting character) and using him and his story, I was finally, after almost 6 years of being free from my abusers, was able to talk to her about what I went through and start processing my trauma. I realized how similar lives me and billy lived. I realized that i wished someone would have helped him the way my loved ones helped me. I wish all antis had the capacity to have calm back and forth discussions about the media that they claim to be fans of, but not everyone is capable of that. This is the internet. Most people here are incapable of that. All media is meant to be discussed and interpreted and debated. Its an art form meant to make you think, not something to base your moral compass and worldviews on. Despite that, Billy’s story is something that many real people go through, and insisting that someone who relates to his abuse and wants to explore it in a fandom space (art, fic, etc) is an evil person just because you personally don’t like his character is just straight up disgusting.

So for the ones who just want to ask questions and discuss things, thats fine. Most of us are happy to talk. For the ones who just want to troll, invade our space, say inflammatory things and hurt people just because we have differing opinions on a fictional character? The best thing to do is just block them and move on. Because they dont want their minds changed, they just want to cause drama for the sake of drama because their own lives are so sad and empty that they need a strangers vitriol to fill the attention void. They're just schoolyard bullies, desperate for a reacton. And i deal with them the same way i dealt with bullies in my school days: id stare blankly at them until they got bored or uncomfortable and left me alone. Because all they're looking for is a reaction, and i refused to give them one. I deal with anon hate the same way. Before i started posting about billy, i got anon hate maybe once or twice in the twelve years ive been here. Now, i get it at least once a week. And im not even a dedicated billy hargrove blog. I just post whatever catches my eye at that moment, so i cant even imagine what its like for the people in the fandom who are completely dedicated to billy. But my followers have never and will never see the anon hate i get, and the senders will never see my response to it. Because you know what i do with anon hate? I delete it. I delete it and forget it ever existed. Eventually, when they see that im not responding, they give up and stop. Its slowed down considerably, so i guess theyre getting tired lol. Non-reaction is a totally valid way of handling harassment, and the most successful one, in my experience. I dont need to fight to prove to strangers behind a screen that im not a racist or an abuser or evil just because they say that i am for liking a fictional character. I know im not racist, and i know im not an abuser, and i know im not evil. Im a regular person who does their best to be kind and respectful to everyone and be better every day. Im a regular person who goes to work, hangs out with friends, takes care of family, looks at silly little memes on the internet, minds my business, and lives my life.

Dont ever feel bad for not engaging in discourse. Whether its because its taxing to your mental health or you dont have the energy or because you just dont want to, youre not obligated to do anything. You arent losing points by sitting back on the sidelines and letting others fight. Its social media, not a life or death warzone. If all you wanna do is reblog some posts and chill then more power to you. Thats what i do for the most part. I very rarely ever get involved in anything, cuz im content to sit over here in my corner and reblog things, and not let things people say on the internet affect me in real life because none of it matters. Just because antis forget that life outside of internet fandom exists doesnt mean we have to as well.

[bangchanswolfpelt]

you are so fucking sick writing about incest, I used to like your blog but...im not even kink shaming, incest is immoral. I was actually shaking and crying. I have blocked all the incest tags. fuck you. you're a monster. do you even care how many people are traumatised by incest? I'm not, but I've never had healthy family dynamics. I would like to have siblings, it would be nice because then maybe I wouldnt be so lonely but I had to see this sick twisted shit. I hope you get help, its so horribly wrong to sexualise family. you are revolting. I hardly ever send hate anons but im sorry to you and myself, I had to break this rule because this infuriated me, I was in tears and I was scared. at least, thank you for tagging but whats better is if you didn't write it

i am not going to be using the word ‘triggered’ to describe your experience, because you did not use it which leads me to believe that you don’t consider that to be the appropriate descriptor for your experience. if you are prone to being this disturbed by content that you read, it is your responsibility before anyone else's to keep yourself safe—that means making the extra effort of blocking tags and checking people's navigation posts and masterlists. considering you said yourself that you have incest tags blocked, you also clearly know that. i do my best to be courteous and tag things people need to be tagged so people can feel welcome and keep themselves safe on my blog, and so that people who need to can make the decision to block me—my pinned navigation post has a clear list of things that i tag, and i tag all of my posts about incest. this means that you must have ignored your own filters to expose yourself to it. instead of using the filters that you are aware of and have access to, instead of blocking me when you realized you did not want anything to do with my content or my blog, you made the deliberate choice to expose yourself to something you knew would upset you, then when you were predictably upset, you decided to blame me and come into my space to take it out on me.

looking at the language you're using, you're clearly not trying to accomplish anything meaningful. you aren't here to discuss anything, you aren't here to ask about or suggest any practical, useful methods of harm prevention, you aren't even bringing up any actual harm except for your completely preventable distress; you are using loaded, emotional language to try and be hurtful, and you are trying to act as though you're morally superior for doing so. as someone who admits that you are not yourself a survivor of incestuous abuse, you are making a lot of assumptions about people who are, and how their trauma and their needs work. you are acting as though they are a monolith with all the same responses to trauma and all the same needs, as opposed to a group of people who all have different experiences and different ways of coping. you are also, quite frankly, making a lot of assumptions about me with that statement. all of this makes it incredibly fucking clear that this is not about how much you care about survivors, you're just using them as an excuse for your temper tantrum. survivors do not need you to fucking white knight for them, and even if any wanted your help, you clearly don't have any interest in doing the research to find out what effective help would actually look like.

i'm not even going to get into the way that immorality in fiction and art has always been important and useful, or the way that online fandom has been increasingly treating Western views on morality as the absolute standard to the point of open, vitriolic xenophobia. it's incredibly clear that that would only go over your head, and you honestly aren't even worth the time it would take for me to go into that.

i don’t feel bad for you, and i am not going to accept any fucking responsibility for your feelings, not when you came to my blog, ignored warnings and content tags, and had a bad fuckin time because of your own negligence, and not when you clearly can’t take the time to cool down, take care of yourself and take responsibility for yourself, and evaluate what the appropriate response to those feelings is. i am not going to accept responsibility for a complete stranger on the internet, especially not one who steps into my space thinking that they can harass me into doing what they want. you think that you can use shame and guilt to force people to do what you want them to do; you’re a bully and you’re not even a very good one.

you can try all you want to pretend that you have the moral high ground here, but it's very clear you know that you don’t—if you actually believed that, you wouldn’t be trying to make yourself sound kinder and more reasonable than you actually are by forcing sentiments like “I hope you get help” and “I hardly ever send hate” and insincere apologies into the same message as “you are so fucking sick”, “you’re a monster”, and “you are revolting.” it doesn’t matter if you "hardly ever" send hate—you still definitely fucking did it, my dude, and that still makes you a bully who spends their time being cruel to strangers regardless of how sorry you say you are. the best part of this is that i know you know that about yourself and you have to live with that while i'm going to keep writing things that i (and other people) enjoy and you're not going to be anything more to me than a funny joke that gets tossed around my apartment for a few weeks.

if i receive any more messages along these lines, they will be reported and blocked. i responded to this one because it was a fun novelty, and because i am sick and cranky and it gave me a good excuse to be kind of a bitch; i am not going to wait for the shine to wear off when i can better spend my time writing about puppy boys and kitty girls and brother fucking and questionably consensual somnophilia.

[lesbiancarat]

Haha its fine! Im book anon for a reason so take all the time you need! Before I start, I wanna apologize for the possible asks you got about the merch and hybe in general. I didn't intend to cause stress and need to be careful bdjahdsj so slap me with a fish!

Onto the ask! But agreed, I mean before the big kpop boom we saw, this was very common. Build a decent fanbase and then move to Japan or China. (Of course sometimes you see INSTANT movement in other countries but that depends on the company and such but you know what I mean) but since we do have the more global kpop era, we may see more companies do America which isn't a bad thing. It makes sense buisness wise so they will jump on it after debut or something. Thus I don't see it a bad thing for kpop groups to promote in America because hey, if in Korea they do sell western artist music who also tour there, kpop groups can also do the same ya know?

Now onto the hybe comment, I will try not to speak too much on it so I will try to summarize. I think my theory is due with merch from their main artist, they think maybe it could work with svt which maybe could but svt has a different fanbase so throwing on random merch won't make fans really want to buy (not saying some won't which kudos to you! As a fan you are allowed to consume what you please except not be a bad apple about it) so thus like the infamous water bottles which was done for bts, they thought why not do it for svt because bts fans sold it out apparently for a 2nd wave of it being sold again. (Which to this day idk why someone in the hybe team thought this was smart. Like...this is just in bad taste imo) I do wanna agree that it appears that hybe doesn't seem to have a proper art team for svt because while sometimes wild, I do know for their main artist they do have thoughtful merch based around say an album concept I recall. Kf course they will make mistakes i.e. the water bottles. I do wish it can improve because even though it is capitalism, I think fans do want decent merch. We have seen interesting ideas like svt making their own magazine and selling it lol. Of course it is hard to please because some fans want subtle merch ideas while others don't mind the vibrant pastel colors we got or some want wild ideas like svt figurines or something. Overall I hope I didn't drag this too much as I just wanted to respond back to you, I agree with many points you said so yeah cx I say let's also wait as this is barely what, a year or even less of svt being under hybe properly. Especially when hybe had its rebranding and expanding so things are being changed, I know fans are worried about this which is valid but let's not panic just yet. Let's come back in a year to this and see what has improved and what hasn't. (OK but peldis sold the boys rings!? :o since when!? I haven't heard of this actually, when did this happen if I may ask?)

Oof yeah sadly with streaming, many view "oh you don't stream it means you aren't a fan" when isn't the case (which is why I personally don't like when certain companies also do "listening parties" which seems a bit ???) I do remember this popped up big in 2017 but many fans called it out so it quiet down a bit. Like we didn't see it so often where fans were causing problems over it so idk why this returned nor what the cause of it was.

But thank you!! It really was a nice closing chapter, I think when I have personal stuff settled I will try maybe get a new bunny? And oohh congrats on the album! (Note to hybe or pledis. Please make the us store a more common thing, it makes things so much easier! Am happy it was at your place quick so kudos to the us store. Oohh wonderful choices! I think for many fans anyone or heaven's cloud seems to be the popular picks? For me, I may have to say game boi or heaven's cloud as well! Those songs make me just so happy? Like game boy is just so creative with the way it was made. As a video game nerd, it is perfection. I could make an essay about this song lol and heaven's cloud is just...wow. I feel so at ease with the song, comfortable and soothed. Like you are on a cloud lol. Also that is totally fine! Rtl was a grower for me (I blame the mv, it didn't do the song jusitice) but it is a bop and can't stop humming the chorus at random moments. Overall a great summer album. Just imagine any of these songs performed live ndjansns

lol don't feel too bad about it! honestly they weren't that bad + i can always delete asks if i really don't want to answer them, i just always get a bit paranoid that things will get out of hand so i may end up getting more serious in those situations OTL

and yeah i agree! i don't think it's a bad thing for groups to promote in the US, as you said, it's similar to groups expanding their fanbase by promoting in china or Japan or other asian counties, it makes sense from a business standpoint and there's nothing wrong with promoting in different countries. i just wish that some kpop stans understood that western and/or global popularity is a bonus and not a requirement for success. while they do have a global appeal, at the end of the day kpop's main audience is korea, and groups that achieve popularity in Korea have already achieved what they set out to do. but there's unfortunately a decent chunk of international fans that prioritize western popularity over anything and can't fathom that a group can be successful without being popular in the US. or they just talk as if their groups western achievements are more valuable than their Korean ones and to me that starts to look like xenophobia... (sorry if I'm repeating anything i said before in regards to this, i feel like i am but I'm too lazy to go back and check OTL)

since you sent this ask hybe released the caratland merch which was actually really nice, and today they also announced that there will be birthday merch for cheol (and presumably all members from here on out). we don't know what the bday merch is yet but some carats are already a bit miffed that hybe is even thinking to capitalize off the boys' birthdays... i bring both of these up bc i feel like the caratland merch proves your point that hybe is capable of designing good and thoughtful merch, and honestly this does reassure me a bit. but on the other hand them trying to capitalize off the boys' birthdays also proves that they still don't fully understand carats wants and priorities as a fanbase. which, if the future of seventeens merch is gonna be quality merch with some shitty cash grabs in between, i can live with that. I'm not gonna like the shitty cash grabs and i think it would be in our best interest as a fandom to not go crazy buying those shitty cash grabs, because if we don't then hybe will hopefully stop wasting their time and put more effort into /quality/. but if we get quality merch for important events like concerts and fanmeetings, i can live with it. as you said too, it can take time for these things to change, and we should all recognize that. but at the same time merch specifically is market driven, so i don't think it's a bad thing if people like @ hybe on twt about any bad merch that comes out in order to drive that change dhfkfj

but also on a maybe more fun note in regards to the merch... with some carats being upset about the bday merch i was thinking about what hybe could do for merch instead that would fill the niche of being at intervals throughout the year that could still be limited time drops but that carats wouldn't be mad at them capitalizing on and then i was like duh! they could literally just make merch off of going seventeen! honestly I'm surprised they haven't yet. maybe not merch for every episode, but they could have a line of permanent gose merch w a basic logo or something and then release limited time merch themed around some of the more popular episodes at various points during the year. I'm actually kind of obsessed with this idea now and for once I'm like hybe/pledis please capitalize off of this!! dhfkgjg

they never actually sold them, but for seventeens 3rd anniversary, pledis planned to sell replicas of seventeens rings. after it was announced carats were understandably upset since the boys worked so hard for those. luckily pledis heard carats concerns and put out an apology and didn't manufacture them in the end. I'm glad that at least they listened to carats even though it would have been better if they had never considered the idea in the first place :(

oh yeah listening parties are definitely just another marketing technique to boost streams. i think like with a lot of marketing techniques, it just depends on the execution. imo if they're done well it can be a good way for fans to connect while listening to an artists music, which is mutually beneficial for the company, but i can totally see a situation where companies get greedy and push it too hard. i don't know anything about what happened with them back in the day, but if you're curious why SVT had listening parties leading up to your choice, they were set up by UMG, the American distributor that SVT worked with for this cb. in this case the listening parties weren't just for boosting streams, but also likely for UMG to gauge interest. SVT isn't officially signed to a US label yet, but UMG's data from the listening parties could be used to show US labels whether or not there's enough interest for them to be signed. which if that happens we'd almost definitely see a more permanent US shop!

ahh yes, once you're ready I'm sure it would be great to have another bunny companion 🥺

yes! heavens cloud and gam3 bo1 are both such feel good songs! my sister actually added heavens cloud to their Spotify after i made them listen to the album in the car dhfkf it's now one of 6 kpop songs they have saved (4 of which are SVT... my influence 💅 DHFJFH) I'm certain we'll see some of the songs from your choice at caratland this year, hopefully it's all of them but I'd especially like to see heavens cloud and wave 👀 I'm also still crossing my fingers for an i wish live performance bc i can't believe my favorite SVT b-side is one of the TWO tracks they haven't performed live not including the new album (the other one being network love, which i would also like to see live!)

[galvanizedfriend]

I think it hurts fandom because no story is equal, there may be works with similar ideas but no two stories are the same, so its always a loss. For me personally I love your work so its even more tragic. When I say it pushes the fandom away im talking personally but maybe other people feel the same. Basically Ive read everything you did and reviewed almost every single chapter you ever made, so when you take it down it hurts, my heart has dropped every single time you delete something. +

+ and its confusing because you did get very positive feedback and a huge number of reviews, so its hard to grasp why you would choose to focus on the negative and not on the huge positive feedback and delete the works. Its just sad. When you are having this phases I have a hard time coming to your blog because it stresses me out and so it pushes me away in that sense. This is complicated, I understand, its about you and your view of your writing, but it hurts to see stuff you loved vanish +

+ I think it can make people a bit more cautious with showing enthusiasm next time, because you never know if its going to go anywhere, dissapear, who knows. Thats why I think, deleting is never the answer if you are still in the fandom, because it makes it more dificult for random or regular fans of your stories or kc in general to want to interact with you, its just too stressfull. Well its my personal view and how it affects me, Im probably wrong. Its your life, your choice as always 

Woah. Ok. First of all, I’m just gonna say that no one is more stressed out than I am. I can guarantee you I’m not here deleting stories I spend hours, months, even years writing just for the kicks. It’s not fun and, no offense, I don’t mean to sound aggressive, but you have no idea what’s going on in my head (good for you, actually). I can guarantee that no one gets more upset than me, and to get to the point where I take something down, it’s because it’s really, really bad. It’s no one’s fault, of course, but it’s a fact.

I realize that it might seem like I don’t care about comments or reviews because I keep deleting stuff, but that’s really not true. The only reason I got to even finish most of the stories I started (all except one, I think) was because I got so many nice reviews and messages and those kept me going. I appreciate VERY MUCH the support I got and I’m very grateful and also very much aware that I was privileged in that sense. I meant every word on all the replies that I wrote back to all the people who ever wrote me a review or a message.

Having said all that, I understand people might not want to interact or even read anything I ever write in the future. That’s  a consequence that I’m gonna have to live with, I guess. The last thing I ever meant was to stress anybody out. I thought maybe talking about these things here or venting would help (me, personally), but I didn’t realize that I was stressing people out. I apologize for that and it won’t happen again, I won’t be addressing these things anymore and will try to focus on the positive to the best of my abilities from now on.

I’m sorry to anyone who have felt disrespected or stressed out by my posts or the stories I have taken down. I really did not think I’d be upsetting anybody with that. I don’t think I can properly explain this, but in a very basic way, I took things down because I didn’t think anybody would care anymore at this point. It had been finished for months and, like I said, I thought anybody who had been reading it or who would still want to read it already had.

And to paraphrase Klaus, thank you for your honesty, anon.

[kikithedeceiver]

Are you going to translate kagerou daze last chapter? I can’t wait

Well...okay. I’m gonna be honest with the Kagepro Fandom here.

It is not likely Iwill post the RAW manga for the fandom anymore

I will get the manga, yes. But at this point, I don’t evenwant to contribute anything to do fandom to help with access to officialcontents.

It was a very hard decision to make, but with how theKagepro fandom is acting today, I have decided I will not post the Kagepro RAWson Tumblr anymore, and will remove all RAWs I have scanned once I get thesubscription.

TL; DR: At thispoint, the fandom is too toxic, therefore I have no more desire to provide themanga chapters even though there is only one chapter left. Sorry to those whowere not involved in this, but screw it with the antis who now run the fandomand hope you’re happy.

Also still shipKanoKido and don’t see HibiMomo as a “pedophilia ship”

Listen. Back when I joined the fandom, it was a simplertime. Yobanashi Deceive came out, followed by Lost Time Memory and Ayano’sTheory of Happiness shortly after. Those days were simple as we all cried overKano and Ayano, and think of the potential plot LTM revealed as we all waited forMekakucity Actors to come out. We also had awesome contents on translatorstranslating some fancomics (with permission) and a good amount of fanfics andfanarts provided by the fans in this fandom.  

Of course, we had some discourse over which was better:KanoKido or KanoAya; and over Shounen Brave’s MV being leaked online. And wehad major discourse over how MCA went, but in the end it’s just agree todisagree and move on to focus to other medias Kagerou Project was released in,or just move away from the series in general.

Right now with the fandom, however, they cannot agree ordisagree over ships. Majority of the fandom anyway. Today the fandom…other fandoms really, just love to throwthe word ‘incest’ and ‘pedophilia’ left and right with ease and spread theirflames in their posts, tags and replies. In everything, really. Even when theyposted official art, they feel the need to scream in their tag to tell usshippers to fuck off and die for shipping what they think is ‘incest’. I also knowthere are those who are disgusted over my display picture of Kano and Kidokissing, which an old friend of mine edited when that episode of MCA aired(won’t reveal name because I don’t want you to attack them). And even feelgross out over the pic in my blog of Kano petting Kido’s kitty ears.

I want to ask, how can the antis who claim Kano and Kido aresiblings, can see petting as sexual? You could have chosen to see it as abrother petting his sister’s kitty ears because it is cute and fun to tease herfor that, but no. Just because Kano and Kido are alone within a picture…or apanel frame really, you guys choose to view it as a romantic relationshipinstead of a sibling relationship, getting angry over it and spreading hate.

Ironic for antis who claim Kano & Kido are siblings, butjust seeing them together doing something makes you think it’s romantic anyway.

What’s more. Age gaps. Ever since another discourse over ships happened when my friend tried to makepeace with shippers (and sadly failed and upset over it when you guys flamedher), I have heard of this thing called “Half your age + Seven” to dictate whoto date with, and what is appropriately shippable, like HibiMomo. Honestly thispost have the best response over it, but I will quote the replyhere.

so a 16 year old can’tdate a 14 year old? so an 18 year old can’t date a 16 year old? so a 40 yearold can’t date a 27 year old? a math expression should not be the regulation ondating ages…

and if it’s shippingwho tf cares? not hurting anybody because they all fictional…

To be honest, this reminds me of Dead Poet Society. Ifanyone had seen the film, maybe you recall a scene where poetry is calculatedby math as well. This is that level of stupidity. The fandom today is doingsomething what could be considered excrement on what is acceptable over whatis fiction and bringing that over to reality. The reality where your parents,grandparents, classmates or anyone you know also have age gaps, and that reallyyou are more upset over fictional characters dating instead of real-life issuesof incest and pedophilia.

Other than that little discourse fiasco, there are otherthings, but I will not go into detail. Instead just says this tiny fandom justfeels too entitled with their belief and doing uncalled for things likebackstabbing and limiting others to enjoy supporting the fandom in their ownway. Also to let the antis go free by just sit by and watch. I understand thosewho are just tired and don’t want to deal with them. But for those who actuallyenable the antis to do what they want because you guys just don’t care, youguys are part of the guilty party as well by letting them grow and think it’sa-okay to be like this.

With that being said, I do not feel the need to post thefinal chapter anymore. You guys will have to figure it out yourselves or justwait and hear bits and pieces of it maybe. But I don’t even want to post what Iknow. Instead I will just share those RAWs with who I am friends with and whomI trust, plus those who are more mature because instead of flaming, they justlet others enjoy what they ship and do their own things.

The chapters being taken down will also remove myself as aRAW provider to the fandom, which I am thankful because I do not need to dothis anymore, as I, again, I hate scanning and always believe I would get intotrouble.

I know there are those, like my friends and mutuals I havehere on Tumblr, who wanted to read the manga since they do not have access tothem where they live. I am sorry for doing this to them too, but it just isn’tworth it in the end.

Instead, I will spend my remaining days in the fandom asjust someone who hears bits and pieces of Kagepro fandom here and there while Iam enjoying myself more in another fandom or doing other things I enjoy inlife, instead of spreading hate when someone doesn’t agree with you. I willstill look forward to Jin’s next album and when Mekakucity Reload to come out, andalso I might finish my KanoKido Oneshot requests and multichapter stories Iwanted to finish, but that will take a longtime since I’m planning to focus other writing instead.

But what I look forward to the most is when the series’ end,so then it can be put to rest for real and I can officially leave and let thefandom to slowly die. Might hear some things, but it will be a dying fandom atthat point.

The asks are still open for yelling. But it will just provea point. But right now, I believe I have blocked a lot of anti, which goes toshow how toxic this fandom has become. If I do get any asks/anon hate though,feel free to blacklist #discourse and #negativity, dear followers. Tumblralways had that option at least, you guys just need to use it when you’re onthe app without xKit. Also I will just answer those asks once, then block them afterwards (if you’re sending an ask through anon, you’re IP blocked).

If you guys read this whole thing (over 2 pages at thispoint), then I thank you for reading this. And more so if you understand what Iam doing. Sorry to those who are upset over this, but not to the antis who areupset and possibly raging if they read this.

Because with antis running the fandom, I want no part in itby providing them the last manga content.

[blue-shaded]

Heyo its 😈 the minecraft human.

I dont know if you know anything about MCC, buts this giant minecraft competition where streamers who play Minecraft come together and compete in little mini games for points and if happens like once a month. Its hella fun to watch.

But yesterday i saw Jack reach out to Tommyinit and ask to team with him and Ethan asked Scott Major (a coordinator) to be apart of it. Ranboo asked Ethan to team with him.

I HAVE NEVER seen Sean or Ethan do anything Minecraft related since their careers started? I dont understand why they should be apart of something that brings the Minecraft fandom together once a month to have fun and enjoy themselves. There are so many other MCYT creators out there who would love the opportunity to be apart of something like this…and they would just give it to two people who don’t even stream MC?

I know this is something stupid to be upset about, but im seeing Sean interact with Tommy, Tubbo, Ranboo and all them. (Which is weird because i have never seen him interact with other MCYT besides them then again they are most active 🤷🏻‍♂️) like i left his fandom to become MCYT and now they aré merging and I really dont like it.

😈- sorry if this sounds whiney its my intent just nobody would listen ;-;

Dunno anything about MCC Also this sounds like something they'd participate in when minecraft was a big ass thing everyone played. There could also be another reason.. Which is very simply just the exploitation and usage of other human beings who do have minecraft as a more regular thing on their page. Why? Because it allows the 2 fandoms to overlap. For example. If Sean reaches out to Tommy, this means that viewers of Tommy will perhaps become interested in Sean's content and start watching him. The whole point of the collab is purely networking. It's all a big networking event. Which ultimately results in more views, more subs, more money. That's all there is to it. They don't care about the minecraft community, nor the game. Only about their own success. And why would Tommy or anyone of them accept? Because Sean's also a big youtuber and then sean's fans would start watching tommy's content. There's only a win-win on both sides and both people can equally exploit the other for subs and ultimately money.

[joculatrixster]

yeah ok dont read what i wrote bc u said the ship was incest and of course that doesnt matter to u that was upsetting also this is how i talk and u fucking insulted me but sure act like u did nothing wrong lmao sorry i assumed ud be able to handle when ur being a prick and ppl wouldnt react well to that! especially when u make baseless claims lilith is a lesbain when im ment to he taking u seriously? shes not btw but u adding that in showed me u just wanted to police how pll view her. u also claimed i dont care about platonic bonds in the most condescending way as if u knew everything about me and how i interected w/ the fandom yet couldnt even check the notes. AND CLAIMED I WAS SHIPPING INCEST. u acted like i was gross for liking the ship yet act like a god damn victim when i replied to u and cant even bother to read everything i wrote bc i wasnt being polite when u sure as hell werent either, sure ok

i am sorry if i made u feel dysphoric but its fucking hysterical how u dont even apologize for how rude u were u just shrug it off as an accident and write everything i wrote off as a rant, like u "didnt mean it" fuck all the way off ur a grown ass adult u knew what u were doing when u said something like "what would u even THINK to ship her w/ hooty...thats like shipping incest" and "is platonic reltionships not good enough for u" yeah but surely u did nothing wrong!

i get ur autistic but theres a difference between being blunt n not getting tone and acting like u have he moral highground when u reply to a stranger n implied they r weird or gross off of one post then added in that last sentence which again were was the informing in that what was its point huh? genuine question are u fucking kidding me. why the fuck would u ask anyone that unless u assumed the only reason i liked that ship was bc i couldn't actually stand their friendship as is which is a wierd ass assumption to make off of one post u didnt check the notes on! and im still stuck on how ur gonna keep glossing over how u called lilith a canon lesbian and how u called the ship incest but ofc u cant acknowledge that part bc it makes u look bad but u can twist ur question to seem genuine if i was an idiot :)

joculatrixgonewild​

transbianlilith​

joculatrixgonewild​

what is the ship name for hooty/lilith i need to make them fan art and i REFUSE to belive u cowards r making willow x hunter a popular ship but wont ship hooty x lilith

Dana Terrace confirmed it in a livestream that Lilith is aroace and Cissy Jones also confirmed in a video & a tweet. Lilith stated in the letter she wrote TO HOOTY that she has no interest in anyone. Furthermore, the crew & Lilith’s VA have only ever supported her being shipped with women, so she’s also a lesbian. Also, why would you even think to ship her with Hooty? He’s literally a part of the family, that’s like shipping in//cest. He’s also her best friend. Is a platonic relationship not good enough or important to you?

hey can u chill and fuck off w/ the aggression instead of making assumptions?  how about u ask nicely bc we r strangers and i dont owe u shit? u didnt even bother to check my fucking notes dont act like ur better than me w/ the condensation ok? im gonna try and unpack all of THAT but jsut know ur a fucking asshole for this reply bc i can tell u dotn actually care about informing me u jsut want a fight or want to shame me for a harmless post i made RIGHT AFTER i binged the show so i have no fanon info or outside word of god influencing me when i made that but ok here i go! 

(btw im fucking aroace so fuck off if u think ur defending the community w/ this reply ok? kay!)

1) i made MULTIPLE posts after this if u bothered to check saying ill make it queerplatonic and specifically not romantic, bc i already saw lilith as ace! even tho at that point i was in fact not sent any proof of this claim when someone else told me she was aroace in the notes of this very post and unlike some ppl i dont actually automatically believe anyone saying a character is canonly a certain orientation w/out proof bc many times ppl would say that then have no proof other than headcanons or fanon speculation. so instead of assuming im a shipping freak actually bother to look at my posts or even the notes first off!

2) secondly! hey can u imagine someone doesn’t follow the creator’s accounts and all her streams bc i sure as fuck dont and have made posts saying i dont follow any of her socials and i dont have a fucking twitter account! wow! imagine somonis saying something bc they didnt bother to scourge every single post or stream a creator has made saying this character MAY be aro/ace/lesbian and i cant watch streams in full! no oen ahs sent me the clip or a timestamp saying shes aro and the only clip ive been sent was her letter which was then confirmed her being asexual!!! which i talked about later! i still havent had anyone send me where it was said she was aro btw! everyoens tellign me it was in a stream and expecting me to belive them at face vaule w/ no proof like im gonna watch every strema i can find when im defintly not bc i cant watch live streams in full. the letter reading wasnt conformation of aro to my knowledge bc no one has sent me the clip where its conformation shes aro and the clip about the letter i was sent just conformed she ids as asexual! 

3) also wow! ive never seen Lilith shipped w/ woman but that’s sure as fucking not conformation shes a lesbian!!! especially bc ppl were telling me i cant ship her AT ALL and u specifically said platonic relationships r more important so its fucking weird ud bring that up when ur trying to tell me shes aroace but ok sure that makes sense!! what is wrong w/ u if ur saying she can only be shipped w/ woman but is also aroace yet im the weirdo here for wanting to ship her in general like what? so the creators SUPPORT lilith ships? and haven’t said shes a lesbian? but im the weird for thinking of her and hooty who have shown a close bond and a cute dynamic as a queerplatonic ship bc…? its actually weird af to me if the crew does support shippign their only aroace character yet everyone was quick to tell me i cant ship this??? dont ship her at all or call ehr an aroace lesbian if they wont confirm shes sapphic but will in fact say shes aroace yet support sapphic ships for all i care shes bi or pan which was my og hc that she was demiromo ace so whatever

4) can i get some fucking proof if ur gonna be so rude bc this is the like 4th time ppl r telling me shit and only one person had the decency to tell me which stream and send me a link! wow id sure like to see where it says lilith is a lesbian and can only be partnered w/ woman or where its said shes aroace which is a bit of a contradiction from u but im willing to see where ur coming from w/ fucking proof! bc ur begin hella rude when u sent me 0 proof and are assuming ik all this info when news flash i only just watched the enter show this weakened and didn’t know anything rlly related to the fandom until yesterday but sure be rude to me about info that isnt even in the fucking show bc of course any stranger u meet WILL AUTOMATICLY know everything YOU know bc its hard to comprehend someone may say something out of i dont know being new to the fandom so wouldnt know things that are not in the fucking show? 

5) btw if i must talk about her letter i saw her as demiromatic when i made this even before it was linekd to me, and still do see her that way, so ur little point about that is well. null, sorry u forgot demi ppl exist and assumed i saw her as straight or something lol. not wanign to date random ppl or be hooked up w/ doesn’t make someone automatically aro! microlables exist ppl and i have in fact told my own queerplatonic partner about how much i hate any romatic attention directed at me or how i hate the idea of bdatign anyone so her sending that TOO hooty doesn’t mean shes saying she’d never see him as a partner it jsut means she trusts hooty lol. them beign best friends doesnt mean they cant date but u were weird for how u said i like best friends cant be partners ur point made no sense addign that in but that reminds me

6) WOW UR A FUCKIGN FREAK FOR CALLING IT INCEST GET OVER UR SELF! U BEING UNCOMFTABLE W/ A SHIP DOESNT EQUAL EVERYONE WILL BE OR ITS FCKIGN INCEST U FREAK. yeah i just got to put that one out there because what the fuck is wrong w/ u there cheif!!! undefined found family bonds =/= actual blood family or adopted family u freak what is wrong w/ u! considering someone ur family doenst mean u cant ever get attracted to them, luz and king r eda’s kids and lilith is their aunt yes but hooty’s role in their family has never been defined in the show past hes their protector of sorts what the fuck is wrong w/ u for assuming i see them as siblings or cousins or whatever u obviously hc their relationship as bc that was just gross to say! if the creator said “pls dont ship hooty w/ eda or lilith” yeah id be liek wow ok i wont do that, and i personally woudlnt ship hooty and eda bc they go back further and seem to have a stronger platonic bond but in general hooty isnt rlly treated like a part of the family like lilith is more like a roommate or friend

7) hey fuck u too for that last sentence i can tell u never seen my post history bc the only things owl house i have rlly rbed other than the collector is about fucking hunter and gus and ive said i would hate to see those 2 shipped bc i love their platonic bond but hey no u SURELY know more about me w/ ur baseless rude ass assumptions than i do bc u surely SURELY knew that right? u surely assumed rightly that i have no other owl house ships and i litterly only brought this up ONCE bc as u SURELY know bc u know me better than my friends my aro ass hates shipping culture and told my friends i found the lilith and hooty dynamic cute and refreshing and i didnt rlly ship many owl house ships INCLUDING luz x amity n eda x raine…but u already knew that right oh wait u assumed i cant stand platonic relationships despite the fact i only talked about the friend group and family dynamics in owl house specifically how much i loved eda’s mother roles and how the show focuses on found family or how i rlly disliked the idea of amity’s dad getting in a relationship post divorce bc i think he works better as a single dad and needs a break but WAIT oh YEAH im a shipping freak who doesn’t give a fuck about platonic relationships bc im obviously a dumbass allo who cant look beyond my shipping craving’s to ship something that obviously OBVOISULY has nothing there between the two that would make me think theyd be a cute couple or partnership and i OBVOISULY know EVRRTYTHIGN baout the owl house and didnt just watch a majortity of the show yesterday and barely know anything about the fandom oh no i must be a wicked asshole who knows the sacred shipping laws and decided to sin and say i liked a ship bc i cant stand friendships apparently and u know me best from 1 single post u didnt even click the notes on…right?

yeah ok tho u have surly been normal and kind to me so far as a new fan who has ONLY watched the show and seen nothing else about the show so doesnt know anything that the creator has said abou the characters yet and doesnt thinka  creators word is good representation when its not in the actual source material…yeah fuck off unless u read everything i wrote and feel like understanding u were rude af to me(a stranger who can have differing opinions and who u didn’t bother to make even the slightest bit of an attempt to see if say ANYONE eles replied before u replied to this post) then im just gonna block u if u try and attack me again. u can have ur opions and squicks but u assuming everyone knows everything U know and assuming my views on shipping and incest is something that is not ok. we r not friends u r not my mutual u are a stranger and u need to get into ur lane when u fuckign talk to me about aroace characters and how im allowed as an aroace person to interact w/ them i dont care if ur also aroace or if ur a lesbian u need to back the fuck off w/ this rude shit ur reply was childish at best and i honestly doubt ur gonna bother to hear me out bc u sound like the same type of ppl who go on anon and attack ppl about a post u misread

Honestly, what? I was just informing you and asking a genuine question. If you read that as hostile it wasn’t my intent & I apologize it came off that way, but I do not appreciate being ranted at. Also, I would appreciate you not using gendered terms for me, that is misgendering to me. There’s so much here I’m not going to bother with addressing or unpacking bc that’s a lot of words over quite frankly, nothing, but here’s the proof you wanted:

Here’s the video of Lilith’s letter to Hooty, timestamp for her being revealed as aroace is starts at around 3:50. The audio is a bit quiet so you might need to turn your volume up.

Here’s a repost of the video of Cissy Jones confirming Lilith is ace during one of her Post Hoots she posted on her Instagram.

Screenshot of the tweet reply where Cissy confirms Lilith is also aro:

[viria]

hi viria i have a problem im dealing with right now ;; in my fandom genderswaps/bends are growing ever more popular and more and more big art/fic creators are accepting and supporting them. as someone trans i've been trying to educate people on how harmful it is, but as more & more 'big' or 'popular' accounts publicly enjoy them, its harder & harder to have an audience that will listen. i used to enjoy genderswaps myself but now ive come to see how truly harmful they are. i want to keep (1/6)

trying to educate ppl but soon it will be near impossible to convey my message as almost a whole of my fandom will just come to accept them and love them so much they wont listen ;; do you have any words to say from your perspective as an artist or from any other standpoint? even just a small word would mean so much, this trend is growing more and more rapidly and stronger every time a fic or piece of art supporting it is produced ;; (2/6) 

i come to you asking such a thing because there are fewer and fewer people that share the same belief as me that it is bad. the argument defending it seems very convincing to many. some trans/qenderqueer/nonbinary people find it enjoyable and comforting but those that are on the opposite spectrum - ppl like me who feel dysphoric and invalidated by it - are in the end told to deal with it and let ppl write/draw what they want and just avoid it since its a comfort to some. another argument (3/6)

is of artistic liscense: you should be able to make whatever you want and this is strengthened by the fact doing so comforts some trans/gq people. but i feel forgotten. do the people that are hurt by it not matter? i feel ashamed now when i try to put out my msg. but i just want to feel a little more normal within my fandomspace. i want to feel like i exist. yet hardly anyone will listen. it's not longer something i and my friends can avoid and never really was, because it is harmful and (4/6) 

we have a right to speak out against harmful things, yes? i am finding it harder and harder to believe it. i really just yearn to feel normal as the people that are consoled by genderswapping feel normal. i feel i should mention i do remember when you made genderswap art and were educated and apologized, i have gone through the same process myself. i hope i am not bringing up bad memories and apologize if i happen to ;; please, if you could give just a few words yourself it (5/6)  

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello! I’m sorry, I think my askbox managed to eat the last part of your message, so it’s not entirely full! But I feel like I get enough information from these parts nonetheless. 

First of all, please, please, try to not let any strangers on the internet make you feel abnormal. I feel like it must be very hard to be put in such a space, but as much as you can, please focus on the people who DO share your opinion on this. As much as it might not look like it, I am sure many people (even out of those who still do genderswaps) mean no harm, don’t yet know how hurtful it is for some other people and WILL listen to you!

I remember when people educated me over this, there were so many who thought that...how to put it. That I think very very bad of transgender people, while I, at that point, didn’t really know much about this issue. When it doesn’t happen to you, it’s not always the thing that crosses your mind. I feel like people who explain why and how this is wrong to artists, especially with their point of view, do help to fuel a thought in someone’s mind, offer them to think about it if they didn’t have the option before.

I try to be hopeful for people, I want to think that even if genderswaps are popular, there are still many empathic people who will listen to you, and who will understand how you feel.

For many it comes to a choice: whether they enjoy genderswaps enough to still draw it when they know how much it upsets some people. It was very fun to draw, but I don’t want to be the cause of someone’s distress by doing it. So... I want to think many people might share my choice. 

I’d say...if you choose to explain your point of view to people who still do genderswaps, try to not make bashing someone the first thing you write them. It might cause anger and defense, and it might not lead anywhere. Back then I was “educated” in a way that made me cry my eyes out, but it’s not something everyone will be willing to go through. For me, it wasn’t people who yelled at me what a piece of crap I was, but people who really explained what they felt that made me think on this topic more. Keep in mind that there still might be people who don’t yet know your point of view. What they see - is the pictures on the internet, people do them, so they assume it’s okay. You don’t usually think “Hm, what can possibly be wrong with this picture?” about drawings you see on the internet. 

As for your safe place, I think you have already done that, block all the genderswap tags to try to avoid on your dashboard. Even if there are people who stop doing them, there will most likely still be people who just started, simply because there are so so many. You don’t want to stress out because of something the stranger did from the other side of the globe.

I’m sorry if this is zero help, I know there is no way to change everyone’s opinion or to inform everyone, but please, don’t lose yourself with this. You are you and you are important, what you feel is absolutely legit and valid, remember it!

[butchtaurus]

When will i shut up abt this tbh? hopefully after this… god damn.

Now that it’s been days since the supergirl sdcc incident. i wanna try talk about it more comprehensively? I’m not so good with words or expressing my feelings but i feel like i need to try and understand. I’ll probably forget things i want to say lmao. It’s probably gonna be SO LONG, I’m so so so so SORRY!!!!!!

So, people are mad at Jeremy and Melissa for “making fun of a popular f/f ship.” And while on the surface it seems exactly that, it partially was. But i don’t think the words yelled at us, and it was at us because he looked directly at he camera while doing it, “THEYRE ONLY FRIENDS” was the problem. It was that a fanbase made of many young LGBT people were singled out. Now the intent on Jeremy or Melissa’s part may not have been homophobic or meant to hurt in anyway, they felt they were joking around. But they still did hurt a lot of people.

My interpretation of this “joke” felt like they were poking fun at me for believing two female friends could more than friends and that it was silly to think that. In Jeremy’s first apology he says how its valid how he interprets their story. Which is absolutely correct! He can view them as only friends, no one’s gonna make fun of that. Cause… thats canon? lmao. Part of fiction is allowing the consumer to interpret the work however they see fit because whats the fun in being told what the fiction or art means?

Maybe the cast was tired of being asked about Supercorp, but why was it brought up unprompted in this song recap like that? Jeremy could’ve sang something like ‘Kara met Lena and they became best friends!’ done, perfect, move on. Everything woulda been chill. But instead he faced the camera, which breaks him apart from the interviewers and his cast mates to talk to us the fans, and yelled to the camera.

Onto the rest of the interview because that song was not the only thing that made me disappointed and/or angry.

The interviewer asks about shipping (Kara and Lena). Jeremy chimes in and says “I feel like I’m gonna get destroyed for what I just did…. I’m sorry. I just debunked supercorp.” And Melissa says “That was pretty brave.” And I THINK, that’s where others got really mad at Melissa. I do not think Melissa was saying Jeremy was brave for “debunking supercorp” but that it was brave he just said any of that shit, because the cast has to know how insanely loud this fanbase as a whole is, usually not in a good way. (I’ve never seen it, but i just know people have to be sending death threats to multiple people in this cast, or insulting them in some way when its none of our business. Valid criticism aside.)

Then, the interviewer asks a weirdly worded question towards supercorp as a ship. “Are you caught off guard when you hear about, sort of, [what] fans are making of relationships, seeing stuff that is or isn’t there or might be there, et cetera? Like what do you make of it at this point?” Which, since listening to that fandomentals podcast, does throw me off because it puts everyone in a weird position to answer the othering(?) type question.

Now after Melissa answers the question, i have no problem with her answer there tbh, Katie chimes in with a very thoughtful response on how we can interpret art how we want. I also wanna talk about what people thought Mehcad was saying during the end of Katie’s response. I think everyone was feeling very hurt and sensitive since the song etc, so people were very analytical of everything being said. So people thought Mehcad was either saying “zitta” or “take that”, and since re-listening to the actual interview I hear “take that” as in ‘yes, take what you want from fiction’ AND NOT zitta. Take that (haha) for what you will and if you still think it was zitta I would urge you to re-listen and check after you’ve calmed down a bit? Not to be condescending to/dismissive of your feelings tho! ahhhh

After Katie has said her response. Chris says “Yeah and sexuality is all about others perceptions of yours, right? [cast laughter] Am I right?! …. That was sarcasm!” Yeah… okay. Maybe it was sarcasm, but it was a shitty thing to say at all. And also makes no sense for what they’re talking about. I mean… we’re talking about fictional character here aren’t we? So, what? why? what..?

Jeremy replies to Chris’s comment: “Hey listen, I went to musical theatre school I know all about other peoples perception of sexuality.” So… uh, we aren’t talking about fictional characters? Honestly, who cares what other people think about your sexuality? Did/do people think your gay? Why is that so bad? (Maybe I’m still a little sensitive about that part for some reason…)

Now, I think that was all from THAT interview specifically. There was definitely more ugly stuff that happened with Supergirl at comic con, at least to me. Maybe I’ll make another post because this is so fucking long, I’m so sorry…

The cast may not have meant to hurt anyone with all of this, and they definitely aren’t homophobic like how I think people mean? I really do think its in bad taste to just call them homophobic for this incident. What they did was like a micro aggression and in the grand scheme of things very little. Though large in the aftermath unfortunately. They just couldn’t understand the intracasies to LGBT fandoms or shipping, or even LGBT people, since they aren’t. Basically it was ignorance on their part. So, for me personally, I’m not gonna go all out and hate them. I do have a distrust that I can’t ignore though cause i felt made fun of. :/

To people who think “yeah well supercorps deserved it for how they treat the cast.” I can not control what other people do with their social media. I do not see whatever everyone else fucking does. I sit here in my bubble liking the things I like. I can only say that, I do not condone any ugly person that sends death threats, tells someone in the cast to kill themselves, insults the cast, or bring up personal things to be gross to the cast. I do not like that and think it’s stupid. I could only hope anyone 18 and older would know better and that anyone younger would please think of the cast as actual human beings. It doesn’t matter how much you hate any of the cast. Take your time to do anything else.

And listen, feelings are not invalid. No matter how many people think it’s an overreaction. People don’t get to tell you what you feel is stupid. You were hurt, that is the end of it. You’re allowed to be angry or upset or sad or disappointed but before you think to write something angry or rude, take a few minutes or a few hours and try understand why you’re angry and be respectful if you want to express those feelings. Cause when I look back to those words I said right after I was hurt by theirs… I know that I didn’t hurt anyone else. But, if I did? I’m sorry. D:

If you didn’t get offended or hurt? That’s great I’m really happy for you! :)

ALSO AGAIN IF YOU READ THIS WHOLE THING OH MY GOD IM SO SORRY YOU USED YOUR TIME ON MY WORDS AHHHHHHAGDHJFK