#im being vague on purpose tho

[bitesizedgummie]

whaatttt nooo im not neurodivergent....covers the flashing lights on my headphones with black pieces of paper bc i hate seeing them in my peripheral vision

[ajdrawshq]

How normal are we feeling about ISAT?

this ^ normal. perhaps even less

[lorephobic]

hey guys. wanna say that im SO SORRY that i posted on my barry stan blog about how i was disappointed that his character in a tv show that is supposed to be entertaining was given a lackluster death. i should have NEVER called out the bad writing. and i DEFINITELY should not have joked about killing that man i hope u know that i would NEVER disrespect the militargkxhsgbkx($,!.)(!$

[phagodyke]

yeah I'm not gonna talk abt it am I...

[toytulini]

gatekeeping weirdness now? yall have the energy for this? silly goose behavior(derogatory and dismissive) for sure

[nulltune]

five interesting facts about Hakuno & five things you consider uncanny. Go!

THANK YOU SUE FOR MY LIFE!!!! talking abt hakuno is my hobby fr so thank u 4 enabling me ehe <3 here we go!!

5 interesting facts about hakuno:

her name is an annagram of kimi no na hakushi which translates to "your name is blank". i think it's suuper neat because 1. it gives you the impression of it being an insert name here kind of thing that's common for self-inserts, but it's a nice way to start off hakuno's character journey of becoming her own character from a blank slate and 2. it's a pretty straightforward way of telling us that her name, much like herself, is blank. empty. there's nothing there ^_T

speaking of- you know how with mc characters, there's usually a silly haha kind of dialogue option? that's present for hakuno too but i like it because it's more like an illusion of choice than something more like a self-insert thing. the point hakuno makes in the end is essentially the same, she's just being a lil goofy about the delivery, y'know! i'm not even kididng btw sgfkshfj hakuno herself admits sometimes that she did do it to get a rise/see the other person's reaction to it. moon lady's got a lil michievous side ✨️

she knows the sa-shi-su-se-so which is an expression to memorize essential ingredients for japanese cuisine. so it's safe to say that she'd at least know the basics of cooking, though it's a lil headcanon of mine that although she knows it theoretically, she absolutely flops at the execution (and if you wanna make this more nuanced, you can think of this through the lens of food as a love language-)

she "doesn't particularly like octopus". we don't get a reason why, but it's kinda funny when considering the sea motif in fate/extra! maybe hakuno wouldn't like seafood in general? this isn't that interesting but agfkshf we barely get any information about hakuno herself ya kno!!! which makes sense considering she doesn't even know herself, but that's why i treasure these little crumbs !!

i've noticed this in my reread of fate/extra, but i feel like hakuno brings up the fact that she's "not alone" Quite A Lot post chapter 4 or so. it's her only solace after finding out the truth of her existence so it makes sense why that fact is important to her, but i also like to think that repeating it so much is her (likely unconscious) way of trying to cope with how truly lonely her existence is :,)

5 things i consider uncanny:

OH MAN THIS IS A PERFECT THING TO ASK BC there's always hints about something being "off" about hakuno. in hindsight, it's pretty sad when this disconnect with everyone and everything else seems almost inherent to her existence when all she wants is to be a normal human and find her place in the world </3 and spoiler alert: She Is Not and She Does Not. but it's neat!

there's this one hakuno dialogue response that was essentially her introducing herself in an almost automatic "pavlovian response" — it's a small hint about her true nature as an artificial intelligence but i wish we got more of this aspect explored tbh! how much of her is real? how much of her is her? it could really mess up hakuno's head but it'd be hella interesting to see !

her reaction to being felt up by someone as a first meeting was seriously underwhelming ! a lot of hakuno's reactions to things are pretty tame and iirc it's been noted that she's strangely calm for someone in such a high-stress situation (enough to cripple even the finest soldiers, according to rin). it's likely her being so numb to it all tbh ^_T but it's still pretty weird hakunochan!!!

this one's kinda graphic but there's a scene where hakuno tries to reach her servant-- even as her body is literally being broken down and deleted in the process :,) i say it's uncanny because damn it's a great scene but hakuno's thought process behind it all is a widdle fucked up!! look at what she has to say when she goes numb from the pain + her stomach collapsed: "I just feel gross, like I’ve turned into a skeleton-monster. Though with my body being lighter, I’ll be able to walk faster, which is nice." HELLO??!? (bassbooted)

this one comes a ccc anthology chapter but basically hakuno was asked to pose for a photoshoot and she has no problems wearing a suggestive nightgown, a bikini, and a wedding dress but Draws The Line at a maid outfit (girl?) (she ended up wearing it — and absolutely slaying the look, if i do say so myself — but was Very embarrassed)

[pundromeda]

I'm catching up on WTNV and ugghghh I knew a thing was coming because I read that it would in the wiki article when I was picking episodes, but it did not prepare me 😭

At least I know the resolution comes soon

[where-does-the-heart-lie]

i love sabo being half blind specifically bcuz it's his left side and i am half blind on my left irl too. tho my blindness is different than sabo's i'm sure, bcuz the way u draw his eye looks like a cateract [like the fire burnt the cateract, makes sense] so he can probably sense light and see very vague blob of color, whereas my left eye blindness is central blindness with peripheral vision intact. anyways. [sticks sabo into my very special 'left eye blind characters' pocket]

I really love the half-blind sabo a lot. He means lots to meeeeee

Im glad you cans see representation for your condition through my mentally ill bestie here.

I’m also glad that the cataract eye i gave him makes sense, cuz like i knew that thats what cataracts looks like but also i just wanted to do give him one for stylizing purposes cuz it look cool. So im glad it works out in a way that makes sense.

Thanks for the ask!

[ecto-hazard]

I just rewatched ii s1 (fucked up right?)

im just gonna make a post compiling some barebones concepts that im curious about. cause with the latest reveal, im wondering how much previous stuff might become relevant.

Obviously this was made years ago by a bunch of kids so its possible that most of the details can be disregarded as random bullshit. It does seem like they put a lot of work in creating retcons though so I have reason to believe theyre building off their previous work on purpose but i could be wrong and thats fair. im gonna post about it anyway tho

ii16 spoilers discussed under the cut

Who Mephone created (or rather, didn't create)

Mephone supposedly made every contestant for the show, but there's a couple vague characters.

Fan: weirdly enough he's in a gray area cause he appears as a background character before s2, but he also glitched out in that one episode, so its unlikely he wasnt created by Mephone. But yknow.

Apple: Apple is a fan character who was submitted to the show, and this is addressed in canon. It's possible that mephone made her and the other fan contestants based on whatever the submitters asked?

Bow: she randomly shows up after an ad read. Mephone doesnt seem to even want her to join, but he receives a call from Adam to insist she join. Mephone seems quite resistant to the idea (which would be weird if he made her?) Most interestingly, she's the only one in this list that Mephone couldn't recover.

Dough MIGHT be one mephone didnt create, but it seems pretty likely that Mephone would create him as he was specifically requested by adam to get bow back. Dough does seem like something he'd throw together really quickly to cover his ass

The reason any of this could be relevant is that if they arent created by Mephone, they probably cant be deleted by Cobs.

Adam

Stuff about Adam (the character not the guy) has been kinda quiet lately? He was supposedly the producer of ii, and pays mephone apparently? He clearly has a role to play since he showed up in one of Mephone's memories and seems to be a creation by cobs. So observing his actions in s1 might be valuable, especially since cobs would be able to manipulate the show through him.

Some notable actions of his:

Insisting on Bow being in the show. This is doubly interesting if Bow isn't one of Mephone's creations. She could be an industry plant of some kind?

Telling Mephone to keep 4S out of the season finale. This is supposedly to keep the finale from going crazy. If Mephone had been successful, he wouldve been killed by Mephone 5. Its possible this was on purpose so 4 could be destroyed and replaced

Investing in another season. at the end of s2, despite things going wrong, he tells Mephone they're going to do another season. He sweetens the deal by offering a raise and agreeing to get Mephone an assistant (Toilet). Cobs clearly got invested in this show, so it makes sense he'd encourage more of it from the shadows.

Mephone 4S

Yeah talking about 4S isn't anything new, the fandom's obsessed with him. I am too.

The implications of Mephone4 being in 4S's body never really got explored in s2. I guess they were similar enough that it didn't really matter. But he clearly still has some relevance in the modern series. One of Mephone's memories shows him getting developed as a replacement for 4, and he actually appears in Invitational, Sorta? Clearly Mephone's bothered by the sacrifice he made.

At the very least, the show's reminding us that he existed, so maybe he still does exist? I don't think he's going to necessarily make a comeback or anything but I dunno. It seems like he might be able to talk to Mephone in his head so maybe there's something to that.

Evil Paper

Im just gonna be upfront that I don't have a dissociative disorder and its not my place to talk about how it works or what is good or bad representation so I'm not gonna get super deep into talking about this. I'm just curious if the team has any plans for addressing Evil Paper. They seemed to make an effort into writing Yin Yang more thoughtfully (whether or not they actually succeeded, again, not my say). I could see them giving Paper similar treatment. If they did I doubt it'd be very plot relevant though.

Is the Taco we got the Taco we were supposed to have?

I've actually seen this conversation circulate a little bit already. This sort of debate could apply to any character really, but Taco is perhaps the most interesting example because she's so involved in the latest episodes AND because Brian actually addressed a tweet about this.

Taco behaves like a goofy idiot for the majority of s1, only revealing at the end that she was faking it so she would make it to the end. She specifically says she was "built to win" (the quote Brian addresses), and shows a much more competent side when she actually competes. In fact if it weren't for Bow's interference, Taco would have won the challenge (another case of Bow being weird).

This all seems to imply that Taco may have been intended to win the series by Mephone. Cobs points out to Suitcase and Knife that Mephone had "high hopes" for them, so it's not unreasonable to say that maybe certain characters were liked over others. Mephone never seems to give special treatment openly, but that doesn't mean that when he made certain contestants he didn't at the very least expect them to do well.

What is highly unlikely though is that Taco was created to be a twist villain. This results in Mephone's death after all (though the activity of Bow and Mephone 5 also could be to blame). Especially since he had pressure from Adam to keep things running smoothly, it just wouldn't make sense that Mephone would specifically create someone to toss a wrench in things. Most likely Taco developed like this on her own accord.

But that also raises the question, if she wasn't meant to be a villain, what was she supposed to be? How much of the taco we have now is the Taco that Mephone created? We don't actually see how he reacts to her "reveal" because he's in the middle of running away from 5. But everyone else clearly never saw it coming. OJ specifically comments that this doesn't seem like "the Taco he's been competing with all this time," and while that's written in reference to her reveal, it also could mean she WASNT the Taco he'd been competing with. We do get a hint or two of her true self in previous episodes, but its possible she wasn't ever supposed to be like that.

I think its possible Mephone4 created her as a goofy goober joke character initially, and over time, she changed. She developed into a more tactful and villainous character with her exposure to the contest.

A few things in the most recent episodes might allude to this. One thing being how in ii15 she discusses how she became aware of how much the contest is changing everyone, herself included. Secondly, in ii16 she tells Pickle that at the time she didn't consider how her actions were going to hurt him. This is a really shitty apology and no excuse for it, but it ALSO could mean that at the time, Taco really didn't think about it. In S1, she claims that she was just using him, but we don't know how aware of herself she was back then. Its possible that there was a past version of Taco who wasn't deadset on winning no matter the cost, and being in the game changed her.

Anyway these have been my slopthoughts. It's like 9 pm and ive been writing this for like an hour. Maybe most of this wont get addressed at all in the series, but I figured i might as well compile it down since I just finished s1

[leynaeithnea]

*comes in dancing to hide the tears*

Soooo, a winion told me you have thoughts on Not sorry for loving you?

WE’RE SO BACK MY LOVE (i was the winion)

OKAY LETS GET GOING THANK YOU MY FRIEND

Not Sorry For Loving You

BOY, i was worried about this song & how it made the events play out considering the odyssey, and I’m satisfied enough with it and I have A LOT to say (i think)

First we start out with the same….tip-tap thingy instrument we had with Love In Paradise, but lower, which DEF is something specifically in music and I’m excited for the musican reactors on youtube start to react to it, and pick it apart (like major/minor)

But its an exact mirror of the beginning of Ody waking up at Calypsos island, is it because things on the island stay the same I wonder? Mhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh (its so beautiful)

Someone arrived today (HERMES , we can hear her take a breath and brace herself for what she has to tell Ody)

They said they′re taking you away (FUCKING FINIALLY, ITS ONLY BEEN WHAT, 7 YEARS???)

That you’re not mine to save (Oh…OH now this one…this can refer to several things 1. calypso “saved” him when he washed up on her island and patched him up 2. she thought she could “save” him from his dark thoughts and everything? “i can fix him” vibes? 3. shes talking about herself and “youre not the one who will safe me”)

And soon I won′t get to see your face (…….i know this probably because of rhyming purposes, but i like how this kind of implies she cares more about his looks than him xD)

So I came by to say (interesting, does she leave him alone completely, did she start leaving him alone after his breakdown at the cliff? or does she just not tend to go to the beach when hes sitting at the beach crying every day? mhhhhhh)

You’re unlike anyone I have ever known (…he is unique)

‘Cause you′re all I′ve ever known (…….thats just sad, i teared up at some part during the stream, im not sure if it was this or the end of charybdis,..but yeah)

WANGUIS VOCALS ARE BEAITUFUL; THE MUSIC- ITS

ITS SO GOOD, im in love

And if I pushed you

Or if I came on too strong (“if”, ok…miss hypothetical, and miss “i” messages, if she pushed him, he literally refused her from the start and she kept going and told him to bow down………….”if”, as in “thats what you say I did and maybe thats true but probably you made that up”, can i see this as her just now looking back and being like “yeah….maybe that was too much?”, maybe, but if this was the first time in seven years that she reflected on her own actions, then she has ISSUES still)

Or if I ambushed you (the song keeps things very vague, but I see this as a way for Jorge to semi-confirm the assault, or at least to not erase it, ive seen a lot of conflicting views on the song, from “not specfic enough about the SA as it should be” and “this song proofs that calypso is innocent” and Jorge probably found a way to let both interpreations co-exist, that being said I will be excited for animatics that will lean into the more Odyssey-accurate interpreation)

For that, I’ll say I was wrong (you say you were wrong, but you dont say you’re sorry for it?… aha)

And if you hate me (“if” you hate me, not like she FORCED him to stay on her island for SEVEN YEARS, girlie aint you the one trapped too in this interpretation? :) :) :) u should know how it feels, if you had ANY sympathy and goodwill for him at heart instead of selfishness you would’ve let him go years ago, like….7 years)

Then I am sorry my love′s too much for you (THIS is the biggest proof to me that this whole song is just BIG emotional manipulation, “my love is too much for you”, she blames HIM, for her feelings, like he is at fault that he cant deal with her emotions, instead of her being able to respect his boundaries and keep herself in check after his INSISTENT refusal), again the VOCALS THO

But I’m not sorry for loving you (eh, valid, but also rly guilt tripy, yk? You dont have to be sorry for your feeligns, but you have to be sorry about the way you act if it harms someone (WHICH YOU JUST TALKED BAOUT BUT DIDNT APOLOGIZE FOR, so shes not sorry for loving him, she - on some level – understands that she has hurt him, but she doesnt say shes sorry for her actions)

AND THEN A CHOIR to back her up? there was none in Love in Paradise, so its interesting that one appears now, is it because her emotions are stronger now and they’re overwhelming her? is she trying to use her godly power to convince him to stay? no matter what, they sound lovely, and i gasped when i first listened and had to replay it them, it does kind of sound like theyre trying to pressure ody

“Calypso-” THATS pretty much all he gets to say, MY HEART, he tries to speak, having let her vent that all out but…)

Let me speak (SHE INSTANT INTERRUPTS HIM?? THE AUDACITY? GIRL SHUT UP AND LET THE MAN SPEAK, another BIG red flag of this being a lot of emotional manipulation here, especially since she continues with giving her “sad sob story/explanation”, right after its like “yah i did bad but look at my sad story, this is why I did all this, you cant blame me)

I spent my whole life here (isnt it paradise calypso??? doesnt it have all that you want there, all that you need there?? mmhhhhhhhhHHHH someone was dishonest >:) )

Was cast away when I was young (sad, yeah i do feel bad for her about this, but that does not excuse her actions)

Alone for a hundred years (thats a long time i suppose, but for a goddess maybe not that much

I had no friends but the sky and sun (actually love that line)

So when you washed ashore I thought for sure that you were my dream come true (….ah, yes, that makes sense, latching onto the first good thing you come across, hopeless romantic, but being completely blind to the fact that the thing has free will, is actually a human with complex feelings and you were so obsessed with the IDEA of having someone who loved you that you extremely hurt them an,. ofc its the psychological explanation, of course she deserves better, but how she acted was NOT okay, no matter her reasoning)

I thought I knew (you knew…what? thats interesting that she doesnt end that line…and i honestly cant figure out what she implies there, she thoguht she knew that he loved her? that he DOESNT love her, she thought she knew what love felt like? what being loved felt like? OR thought she knew that he was a gift send by the gods? (as it is in the Odyssey iirc..Im not sure on this rn tho, so dont quote me)

The music…is so fricking beautiful in this….we have another refrain, but this time the choir backs her up on the words for “you, too strong, you, was wrong, me, and then the Uuh build up for the the not sorry for loving you”, which just emphases the words again i suppose, and makes her get more emotional? mhhhh not sure! it sounds great tho)

“Im not sorry”, so in the end, even IF she was wrong….shes not sorry, whatever she did to hurt him, the base line is, that she’s not sorry. She should be.

I′m angry and tired and restless and sad (valid feelings, but its all about how you express those…maybe you should get therapy)

I’m stuck in the moments I swore that we had (you swore, but maybe, maybe you just imagined them, because you were so desperate to believe there was actually any love from him, that you made yourself believe his rejections ended up being signs of love after all…thats not healthy, get therapy, rip to jorge tho, i believe i saw a thing that said he wrote it when he was in a low point in life, Id think hes better now, but still, unreciprocated love DOES hurt a lot, so ouchy)

I wish you would chase me (the way that you chase him….mhm)

Or try to embrace me (but he never does because even after SEVEN YEARS, he somehow hasnt warmed up yet….)

For once, I wish you would lie and say (……aha, like him lying would make any difference? because then you could make yourself believe that what you did wasnt wrong? that theres hope for you? girlie you have to learn to accept that, if you want him to lie to you, youre in a BAD spot. do fricking better.)

I love you (…………..okay……okay, so…..that line makes the whole song controversial….from the animatic we saw that right after these lines odysseus turns away with an empty/determined expression and no regret or guilt on his face what-so ever, and we can also hear that his voice sounds desperate, dare i saw close to breakdown (slightly out of breath, because he interrupts her, trying to get a word in, my first interpretation was that he was worried and tired, and gave in to her demands, scared to refuse her)

and then theres a breaths pause

You do? (she sounds so HOPEFUL, like she ACTUALLY would believe him if he said it, and i think in this moment Odysseus too realizes that just saying him him, would make it worse, so he sort of back paddles a bit?)

But not in the way that you want me to (because i see not a single clue in the rest of the music that would indicate that he as any positive emotions for her, and i rly just cant imagine him feeling any positive emotions for her even if she did NOTHING else than keeping him on the island, (which is VERY unlikely imo), but its also interesting because thats pretty much as well as vague as the odyssey leaves it, so its kindaaa more accurate again? except that we do not get any cue about ody’s view on the whole situation, we see him sitting at the beach, yes, but we dont get a single “as she wished but he did not” moment…so, thats up to the animators or maybe, maybe, one day jorge confirming or denying anything….but yeah, whatever Calypso feels, Odysseus does reciprocate the sentiment, I like thinking that she did try to guilt-trip into staying and that he ACTUALLY feels guilty for leaving her……….the rest of the saga has elements where I will read A LOT more into the scenes than is written out, so i might be over-analysing them at some point and projecting what I want it to mean into it…but alas)

I hate that I fell in love with you (yeah understandable)

Why did I fall in love with you? (because you were lonely girlie)

What do I do with this love for you? (process it and move on eventually, you got eternity to get over it)

How am I supposed to get over you? (therapy)

Why in the world won′t you love me too? (because HE HAS A WIFE WHO HAS BEEN LOING FOR FOR 20 YEARS )

The ending music is beautiful, but aT LAST he is sailing off

[monstrouslyobsessed]

Will you ever draw papa bull and duke together as a comparison of what they look like? I’m genuinely curious to see duke in your artstyle.

sure thing! i was already working on a drawing anyway, so any excuse to exercise a quick sketch never hurts.

—all rights reserved to @monstrouslyobsessed​, the beastfolk characters, papa bull and duke for character design sketch, with a bonus doodle of dorothy fawning over devon with her faceless spouse and child (being held by the bulls' darling in a very vague appearance) in the background with some random expression tests and two babies, devon and dorothy's still-nameless baby.

additional details/ramblings under the cut.

im not really too good with drawing furries so they probably look pretty awkward. anyway, yeah, you can tell there's a lot of resemblances between duke and papa bull. i actually copied and mirrored on purpose and just changed certain details (mainly age and fashion sense).

i tried to make papa bull to look softer, kinder, in his eyes, while it's harder to interpret with duke, other than him being a bit awkward.

they all do have hair tho! a bit more mullet-like, i suppose, but i don't think they can help that considering how their anatomy works (and i'm somewhat trying to keep true to the irl animals as well so there's not really any 'rainbow anime gravity defying' hair going on there). papa bull have a bit more hair than duke, since he had a beard whileas duke doesn't.

if you noticed that duke didn't have the nose ring, good eye! i figured it's a specific species cultural factor, that the head of the family has it (regardless of the gender).

they're actually supposed to be darker, closer to black, but i also wanted to show the wrinkles and other finer details in their looks thus the brown. i...think i might like them better that way, but eh.

as for dorothy, she adore kids regardless of who or what they are. she's always happy to see the little devon and fawn on them lol i kind of tried to keep her to look like a (summery) farm girl, with a lot of body confidence in herself, but it's pretty sketchy so i don't think thats obvious. she's a big, happy gal though.

yes, i just wanna doodle her lol

if you're having troubles reading the text because my handwriting is crappy, i gotchu

"hoovedfolk babies are so heavy..." "i can hold them?" --Dorothy, who traded babies for a minute --Devon, in dino onesie

thats about it for my nonsense, hope my doodles are passable?

[sixosix]

hello six!!!💋💋hope ur having a great day so far !!! uhhhh so like i have a request request (??) so in thawed right, can i have their ages and some timestamps????? like how old were they in *this/*that scene. doesnt have to be canon in game tho🥰. cause i just reread thawed(again, the whole thing, i know) and i noticed that my drawings are inconsistent with their age HAHHAHHSHD

mainly when:

when arlecchino took mc in

lyney and lynette first joined the HOH

when mc got burnt

how many years they spent together in the HOH w mc(if u want, you can add how long it took for mc to warm up to lyney)

divorce arc #1(when mc got her vision)

how many years mc spent w rosalie

when aether first met mc

if you cant do it tho, thats fine too🙏🙏🙏this is mainly because i want to draw them as accurate as i possibly canHAHHAHHAHS

(so uhm, for some reason tumblr wont let me send this ask un-anon-ed so uhhhh yeah.)

-akagi (the priest)<33

HELLO AKAGI OUR FAVORITE PRIEST(how do u not get sick of thawed like genuinely LMFAOO i have to reread it all the time when i write a new chapter and i… I CRINGE SO HARD😭) ALS IM SO SORRY FOR REPLYING SO LATE I LIVE YOU

ngl i was so vague w their ages on purpose because i am so incredibly lazy but since the series is nearly ending and youre asking me, ill do my best!

arlecchino took in mc when she was around 8 yrs old lets say!!

lyney and lynette joined HoH when they were around 10? (assuming theyre 20+ now, and they met Cesar 10 years ago canonically)

but this is assuming they met cesar around the same time they joined HoH because Cesar mentioned the twins talking about Father

MC got burnt: 12 years old, lets say

MC starts acting strange (intimidated by lyney) around 13 yrs old (aka the same age she left the House)

they spent about 2–3 years being friendly (as friendly as MC can get w lyney anyway!) before it went to shit

and they meet again when lyney/mc are 20–22!! aka their current age for the game

that would mean aether met mc around 20–22, and mc has spent about 7–9-ish years w rosalie

but this is all assuming that lyney got his vision at such a young age! i have a feeling that ingame he actually gets it when hes around 18

[worstdisastermaster]

Why is Freyr a solar god?

Author’s note or whatever:

So, a while back, I was curious. (Which honestly sounds like the reason i could claim for all my issues lol) Im an Apollo stan, right? So,, I kept seeing things hinting to Freyr and his connection with the sun. So, ofc, I was confused. Sol’s a thing- I know that myth. Sooo, why is freyr connected to the sun??? Naturally, I decided to do research about it instead of my homework at the time, meaning my notes for the class were mixed with my unfiltered thoughts about what I was learning about Freyr. (Honestly it was pretty hilarious going through it) I absorbed the knowledge and continued on with my life, never clearing up the notes or even trying to source where it all came from. You know, like an idiot.

Welll, i have been asked by an amazing person to share my thoughts, so you can imagine me scuttling away and click-clacking on my school computer to dig through old notes and try to find both old sources and new and throw this together. (I like to talk about things im interested in lol. Im so happy to share XD and infodump.) I apologize if this doesn't make sense or anything- I’ve never really done anything like this before lol, though im excited to start :D aaand the intro is far too long already. Okay MOVING ON.

Disclaimer: I cannot tell you the exact facts about the worship the Norse had for the heavens originally, because no one knows. All of this is speculations from people much smarter than i that i’m trying to piece together and condense. Take this all with an entire freaking pillar of salt XD

So. Want to know how many deities I’ve pieced together, as being associated with the sun/moon (seriously associated lol)? I’m sure you do, because im going to go over all of them. Lol.

six. Six entire deities. (... maybe even seven, or 9, or MORE)

Sol and Mani, of course. Freya and Freyr, the whole point of this. Baldr and Nanna. Probably more I forgot. And a gajillion other things associated- boars and horses and ships and shields and birds and- Loads and loads of different things.

SO. I’m going to explain them individually and then walk you all through what I understand about it all.

(also please note that this is all like. Paraphrased from the websites and organized and stuff. I dont want yall to read this then look at the sources and think ‘why r these so similar’ XD its ‘cause they are. This is more like my research + commentary then me being an expert or anything lol)

Sol and Mani

Like all the others I’m going to go over, there are a variety of versions about this- I’m only going to do some of them. Lol.

Sol and Mani are siblings. In one version, they were created with the cosmos, and had literally no purpose or anything. The gods saw, and created the different parts of the day and year and phases of the moon, then placed them under Sol and Mani’s care. And thus, Sol and Mani rode through the sky on chariots, and fled the wolves Skoll (Mockery) and Hati (Hate), which is the reason for their speed, and why they move across the sky at all. When ragnarok begins and everything goes to Hela in a handbasket, (...thats an absurd image XD) the wolves will finally manage to catch up to them and eat them, as they've literally always wanted to do. (Honestly, what dedication tho-)

In some versions of the above, there’s a guy named Svalinn who protects Midgard (earth) from the might of the sun with a shield. Which is great, since both land and sea would catch on fire and everything and everyone would die if he didn’t. (Everyone, say ‘thanks, Svalinn’!)

In another version, both Sol and Mani are children of a mortal man named Mundilferi. (His name might mean “The one moving according to particular times” which, yah know, vaguely implies the movement of celestial bodies in the sky. Then there's the thought that Mundil is derived from Mund, which means “period of time”- which may be a kenning [kind of a funny word I’ll explain again later. It references a thing thats like, a cross between an allusion and an epithet and metaphor and references and a whole bunch of other things. Basically, it means they say one thing but mean another- they just said the first because it sounded fancy. And you would be expected to puzzle it together because you already knew what they were referencing and everything] for the moon. Which is kind of interesting if we take it literally, since its another instance of the moon being male and the sun being female, which isnt as common as one might think. [norway’s also different in that they imagine the moon being born before the sun- so the day begins from the night, like the year from winter. Kudos to ancient norway for being original]) Etymology aside, this guy has two kids. Basically, they’re so wonderful and beautiful that he named them after the moon and sun, and gave Sol to be wedded to a guy named Glenr (which means ‘opening in the clouds’).

In this version, the sun came from a sperk in Muspelheim and was pulled through the sky in a driverless chariot. Unfortunately, the gods took the names personally, and were like, “Oh, you named your kids ‘sun’ and ‘moon’? Don’t worry, thats cool, they can be the sun and moon then! Wouldn’t that be nice? We’ll make sure their names are accurate, dont you worry your stupid little mortal ‘brain’” ‘cause they were offended or whatever. So, as punishment, they are stuck being the moon/sun forever- until Fenrir eats Sol (and mani, presumably) during ragnarok, that is. Then her daughter will take her place, which is funny since everyone will be dead, so noooot sure how that works, but I digress. Im not sure about mani’s heir- forgot to find a source for that lol XD I do know that he either kidnapped or adopted, depending on the variation, two kids to help him out.

Ive also heard of versions where the sun and moon are actually the very wolves chasing sol and mani, and they simply lead the wolves across the sky in an eternal loop. (that ones my favorite, because d o g g o)

Lots and lots of different versions of sol and mani- more than i’m putting here. This is enough to give you the general gist, though, and since this isn’t focused on them, weeeeee’re moving on.

Baldr and Nanna

These two are quite interesting to me. For one, I’m not actually certain if Nanna is, in fact, considered a moon deity- half of the sources on her say yes, at least kind of, and half dont mention it at all. She’s pretty mysterious- not much is known about her except that she’s baldr’s wife. Even her name has a ton of possible meanings- none of the sources i looked up in my half-hearted search had the same idea for her etymology. (read: i didnt look that hard lol) Her heritage is equally debatable. She’s maybe a daughter of Nepr, who might be Odin’s son- or she she’s possibly the daughter of mani (hmm)- or the sister to sygn, or- she’s not the focus, so i moved on lol.

Baldr, on the other hand…

He’s not always the sun, or even sunshine, but he is always light. And everyone loves him, and its not a huge secret that he’s basically Jesus-ified all throughout the myths we know.

He’s absolutely perfect in literally every single conceivable way- unlike his brother, who’s the god of darkness to his light, and grumpy and rude and generally unlikable, and possibly the freaking embodiment of sin according to some sources. Oh and, he’s also blind. (Love the way ancient representation worked 9-9) He basically exists to make Baldr look better, from what i understand, which is hardly cool at all. Especially ‘cause of how ableist that is. But I digress.

So, Baldr, who’s ‘white as a daisy’ (lol) with a ‘snowy’ brow that im assuming just means that he’s extremely white (its also continuously described as shining… im just gonna make a leap and say its probably not the ancients saying he’s just really greasy…), and has golden locks likened to sunshine. He’s innocence and beauty and light and purity and all that jazz.

Even though he’s so popular, he’s most known for his death, which is kiiiiiinda twisted if you think about it for a sec. Anyway, blah blah blah not the point of this blah blah blah, basically he was prophesied to die but eeeeeveryone loved him so much that frigga (his mom and queen of the gods- and possibly another form of Freya, or- aaand im sidetracked again XD) got literally every single thing to swear to never harm Baldr- except, of course, one tiny little plant. (some say she forgot, others that she thought the plant too young, etc) Loki was jealous of Baldr and, one way or another, found out about the plant- mistletoe, it was. Sooo, while everyone was chucking random things at baldr because they thought it was funny, he decided to be ‘helpful’ to Hodur (baldr’s twin mentioned above) and basically made Hodur kill Baldr- which didnt do what loki thought it would, ‘cause there was no doubt it was actually loki’s fault, not Hodur. (Wow, imagine being hated and mistrusted more than the actual [possible] embodiment of sin himself… snorri really has it out for this guy, doesnt he) Whoopee, Loki’s punished in a variety of different ways depending on the version. Yay.

I’ll be getting further in depth on that later, so thats all on baldr for now.

Freya and Freyr

Now, these two are (obviously_ where i spent the majority of my time looking, since they are, yah know, the entire point of this post. Get ready for a lot of vague things that point fingers at their connection to the sun and moon, because im about to condense a lot of sources on the mystery of their connection into this one.

So, in basic mythology, Freya and Freyr are the insanely beautiful of Njordr- and they’re sometimes twins. (and sometimes lovers, as in some versions Njordr got with his sister to have the two of them. How… interesting. [sometimes their mother is nerthus, sometimes skadi, possibly others, not the focus XD]) Freyr is a big freaking deal (and so is his sister). “He rules over the rain and the shining of the sun, and therewithal the fruit of the earth; and it is good to call on him for fruitful seasons and peace. He governs also the prosperity of men,” is Freyr according to one source. Frankly, they were leaving out quite a bit.

Freyr’s home was considered to be Alfheim, which was the home of the elves. (“The elves were collective gods who were also associated with burial mounds and the ancestors”. You’ll see why this is so interesting a detail in a bit- though its also interesting for a pretty blatant reason. Freya and Freyr are both considered the leaders of the light elves. Yah know, the light elves.) He had a ship that has a name that reminds me of a keyboard smash (because i dont speak norse, not because it is random letters obviously lol, im not funny) that was built by dwarves.

Now, this ship is pretty cool, since it sails on both land and sea, always has a tailwind, and on top of that it can be folded like a piece of cloth and tucked in a pocket. It also connects him with his dad. (Yes, this ship is important, and yes, i will get to it later, lolll) he also has this amazing boar (Gullinborsti) attached to his cart that also doesn’t discriminate between land and air and sea- he travels ‘em all. This boar illuminates everything with its golden bristles- almost like the sun, ahahaha. (The boar is also often depicted on warriors’ shields- and shields are also connected to the sun, as i’ll explain in a bit.) He also has a servant named ‘the bright one’.

“Freyr, like his sister and father, belonged to the vanir race, but lived with the aesir as a peace hostage after the war between the two groups of gods. The fact that his dwelling is also called alfheim suggests a connection between the vanir and the elves; both are also associated with fertility (which, btw, both freya and freyr are considered deities of). Just like odin and thor, Freyr was quite popular with the ancient norse cults. (pOpULar wiTH tHe LaDiEs-) Freyr is destroyed by the giant Surt during ragnarok with his flaming sword.” he’s constantly described as handsome, beautiful, powerful, kind, and all sorts of other nice things. He’s also, interestingly enough, called the ‘world god’ by snorri. (nah, that doesnt connect to anything in this, i literally just thought it was cool lol) He rules the weather and growth of the year, with the rain and sunshine for the crops of the field. He was the go-to god for people who wanted a good future, peace, prosperity, and progress. He was the god of habits (apparently? Kinda cool, that) and the god of years and the giver of wealth. (this is because, according to some, Freyr was originally a mortal king. His reign was so wonderful that he was worshiped beyond his death, and continued to watch over his people as a god. This is very much not true in all versions, however lol) He’s also got horses devoted to him, which is fun.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He’s the god of lots of very important things and hes very cool and we should all love him lots, is basically the moral of the story lol.

So, why should he (and his sister) be connected to the sun?

Surface level answer is because Freya is considered as beautiful as the sun, and so is her necklace. Freyr is, because of his association with seasonal change and fertility and crops, and his boar.

Except, thats only the surface level. Buckle in guys, ‘cause we’re about to get real. (and real speculative. lol.)

First, we’re gonna look at what the sun even is, before we touch on who and why it has anything to do with Freyr and Freya.

So, the sun chariot is a pretty common thing in norse mythology- and others besides. It isn’t always, however. According to some sources, the sun is on a wagon during the day and on a ship below the sea at night- which might also relate to death and the underworld. (im coming back to that later, too) as one source says, “in prehistoric scandinavia, images of the sun being held by humans, set on a ship or wagon, appear on slabs inside graves, sun-like shields, (which is another huge association btw- the sun and war, specifically) belt plates and the famous 1400 BCE trundholm sun-chariot, where it is depicted as drawn by a horse on its eternal journey, both set on wheels suggesting a continuous motion”

Now, there’s also the connection between the sun and the underworld. There’s carvings with chariots and bird shapes put in graves- most likely to guide or protect the dead. (The sun and freya both were the protecter of dead people in prehistoric scandinavia_ the horse also was important, as it was considered a means of both communication and transportation between the two worlds- which ties back into the sun being drawn by horses. Horses connect earth and sky, life and death, and pull the sun- you know, the sun, which represents life and death in equal measure. (you can even look at it this way- the death of the sun and the rebirth of the day, caused by the sun)

The bird shapes and bird-shaped women are thought to be the valkyries taking one half of the dead warriors to valhalla, and the other half to- oh, how interesting, to freya’s hall. (*intense eyebrow wriggles*) which- odin is also known to shapeshift into an eagle, so theres that connection too- and he’s in charge of valhalla. Similarly, freya has a cloak that turns its wearer into a falcon, letting her fly. The shapes are also regarded by scholars as representation of the eagle, and are connected with battle and war- but also as a symbol of the sun. just like the wheels, the birds refer to the swift flight of the sun. (this is extra interesting, when we consider freya’s connection to the strife and death and etc- wherats freyr is the fruit of the earth and peace and fertile seasons, considered the guy that ‘makes love rather than war’ [ in reference to him giving away his sword for love {he also gave away his horse, which was known for being able to jump over the ‘ring of fire’ and protect the rider from it- or, the sun. curious, isn’t it? Especially if we continue on with the idea that surt is the personification of all things we dont want the sun to be- and freyr’s horse protects against that, and was given away. That, and his sword is summer… which is implied to be the very sword surt will wield to kill freyr} both he and his sister are worshiped as gods of marriage and love, albeit differently] and etc… almost like they are the dual natures of the sun personified…)

Back on the sun=ship thing, “the other image popular in the bronze age, that of the sun on ship, can easily parallel traditions elsewhere, such as the egyptian sun god ra or Apollo (!!!) from greek mythology who gave protection in navigation. This image is used to describe shields” in snorri’s poetic teachings the shield can be a ‘skipsol’, literally a ship-sun, or a hlyrtungl, prow-moon”

(Curiously, Freyr’s ship has been depicted with an image of the sun on it. See what im putting down, here?

…and if not, you will.)

(Also, njord and freyr and freya are all connected to ships and maritime, which is in turn connected to the sun.)

At the end of the world, freyr will battle the giant surt, which possibly means more than we think at first glance. Surt can be interpreted as the destructive side of the sun- which makes sense. The peaceful, gently, nurturing side of the sun in freyr, being defeated by the wantonly destructive side at the end of the world- which makes it extra interesting that surt kills freyr, and not sol.

In addition, there’s also evidence of someone named ‘Sunna’ who’s referenced in the context of invoking the gods to heal a foal’s foot. Which, if you look at Freyr’s association with healing, and horses… perhaps they are connected, perhaps not, but its interesting all the same.

(And again, horses are also connected to the underworld- like ships, and freya, and- basically, its kind of convoluted, but by association one could suggest that freyr has a cthonic connection- just like the sun might. Then, of course, with his association with life, he’s gonna have association with death- and harvest, and the changing of seasons, and rebirth, and- yeah, see what i mean?)

Switching topics!!!!! (Because now im focusing mostly on a specific source- my absolute favorite of the bunch, because of how much information is concisely stated. All the others are mashing together- this ones special)

I referenced njord and skadi and nerthus, right? Wellll, njord and nerthus and freya and freyr have some… interesting connections.

Allow me to lay the groundwork.

“Nerthus travels on her wagon and brings peace and good seasons to people, while njordr, the male counterpart of nerthus, was worshiped as the protector of maritime. Both of these two features could have been derived from the course of the sun through the sky during the day on the sun-chariot, and through the underworld at night, maybe on a ship, which can also be interpreted as a metaphor of the regeneration of plants and crops, and even connected with the journey from this world to the other world.

“As for freya and freyr, who are probably derived from nerthus-njordr (which in another part of this paper, is explained. I wont get into details, but nerthus and njordr can be argued as the same person- and freya and freyrs names mean ‘lord’ and ‘lady’, and can easily be implicated as simply being epithets for the above- which in simpler terms, means that njordr might have came first, then nerthus came from him [or vice-versa] and then the gods freya and freyr came from him/them over time, as they slowly began to be seen as separate deities instead of epithets. That, or nerthus came first, and then njord, and then freya took nerthus’ place while freyr shared njord’s as son and father), they share more similarities with the sun, which may allow them to be identified as nordic solar gods. For example, freya’s wagon is pulled by cats, which are worshiped by ancient egyptians as the representation of the sun (im also going to point out the metaphor of the sun as odin’s eye, and gesture broadly at all the myths referencing ra’s eye in association to the sun. in addition, the ancient egyptians called the sun “the cat” as “the pupil of the cat’s eye grows larger with the advance of day” as the sun does. They imagined a great cat standing behind the sun, as the sun is the pupil of the cat’s eye. Female cats belonged to bast [or bubastis] while male cats- which are the ones that draw freya’s charit- symbolize ra, the sun-god) (At this point, consider this- norse mythology: starring guest mythologies, from such wondrous places as egypt and greece!!!!!!) at the same time, her wagon associated her with both the sun and nerthus. Compared with freya, freyrs role as a solar god is more obvious, as he is the ruler of rains and shining in the sun.

“The similarities of functions between the sun, and freya-freyr, might indicate that the fertile functions represented by the sun in the bronze age, was first inherited by nerthus in the iron age, and then by freya and freyr in the viking and middle ages, even though the sun itself was no longer the key symbol of fertility in viking and medieval north.”

This is another interesting thing- originally, in fertility worship, there are artifacts with images of the sun on them- in all of the forms mentioned above. However, after 500 BC, the sun itself is replaced with freyr and freya- possibly as the personified sun.

In addition, the movement of the sun across the sky was treated as a symbol of seasonal changing and vegetation growing. “The sun comes back after the darkness of the winter, brings back not only the brightness, but also the fertility of earth and vegetation.” That’s interesting, since Freyr is kind of in charge of the changing of seasons and growing of vegetation and fertility and brightness. Funny, that.

Similarly, want to know the difference between the sun-wagon and the sun-ship? Wagons were connected with females, while ships are more connected with males. Hence Freya and Nerthus both owning a chariot, while freyr owns the golden ship ‘Skidbladnir’- and Njord is obviously connected to ships. This implies that there are two aspects of the sun- one connected with females, and the other with males. However, this also isn’t a hard and fast rule- remember Freyr’s boar, that pulls his wagon? Freya also just so happens to own a ship. (and a very similar boar!) So even though there is association with genders and wagons and ships, it’s not a hard and fast rule. Although, if Freyr and Freya are both connected to Nerthus, it might make sense that Freyr has a wagon. (Similarly, Thor has a connection with a wagon- but he also has dressed as Freya)

Nerthus also is known to travel around on her wagon in order to bring peace to her people and fertility to crops- just as Freyr does. (And Freya is also connected to good seasons and harvest!) Interestingly enough, Nerthus’ wagon can be considered to have been drawn by female cattle instead of horses. This is interesting because the sun’s rays are described as cow’s milk- and as us greek nerds know, the sun-cattle is definitely a thing in greek mythology.

(In a similar vein, the tale of Njord and Skadi has been compared to the myths of Hades and Persephone, and the story of Freya’s searching for her husband to Isis and Osiris- underworld and fertility and growth connections, again)

And then, there’s this. “In the thought of these early ages the sun was the child of night or darkness, the dawn came before he was born, and died as he rose in the heavens. He strangled the serpents of the night, (gonna point at egyptian mythology real quick- and also Python from greek mythology, because why not), he went forth like a bridegroom out of his chamber, and like a giant to run his course. He had to do battle with clouds and storms, sometimes his light grew dim under their gloomy veil, and the children of men shuddered at the wrath of the hidden sun. His course might be brilliant and beneficent, or gloomy, sullen, and capricious. He might be a warrior, a friend, or a destroyer. The rays of the sun were changed into golden hair, into spears and lances, and robes of light.” How many of the above points have been referenced in that?! Quite a few.

Then, (with the speakers of the conversation taken out ‘cause their unnecessary,) “The sun fares swiftly, and almost as if she were afraid: she could not hasten her course any more if she feared her destruction. It is no marvel that she hastens furiously: Close cometh he that seeks her and she has no escape save to run away. Who is he that causes her disquiet? It is two wolves; and he that runs after her is called Skoll; she fears him, and he shall take her. But he that leaps before her is called Hati Hrodvitnisson. He is eager to seize the moon; and so it must be.”

This obviously references Sol and Mani- and brings us back to the idea that the sun (and moon) are very, very fast.

Another fun little fact? There’s a few different names for the sun- and it’s associated with quite a few things, like gold and fire, which is shown in several things like freya’s gold necklace being named after the sun- and her tears. Gold is called ‘the shining’, which is often connected with the sun- but so are the names Sol, as ‘sun’, and sunna, as ‘sunshine’, ‘everglow’, ‘the lovely wheel’, ‘all-shining’, etc. In addition, I’m going to bring Freyr’s servant back to your memory- as his name means ‘the shining one’. (Speaking of- did you remember where you’ve seen ‘sunna’ before?) Gold is very much associated with Freya- even in the names of her daughters. She also is called “shining one over the sea”, which plays on this and her oceanic connections.

Who is Snorri and why should we care?

Aaaaaaand here is the reason I said to take all of the above with a grain of salt. All because of this guy named Snorri. If we have collective beef with the roman poets that are responsible for the majority of the ‘greek’ myths we know, i dont even know what we have with this guy.

Why? We have no idea how many myths he made up on the spot. He is single handedly responsible for the majority of norse mythology as we know it- which are quite different then how it was originally.

By the time he’d gotten his dirty fingers all over the myths, they’d already been quite tampered with- thanks to christians who had no patience for paganism, but enjoyed sharing gossip about ‘heathens’ anyway. (thanks, us. Really had to go and screw with history) So they were already moving away from the original myths. (hence Baldr being so blatantly symbolic of Christ) Then Snorri happened, and the original myths fled like they were being chased by some kinda giant, rabid wolf. (See what I did there? …Geeze, okay, fine, I’ll see myself out, calm down-)

(*please note that the majority of my griping is done with relative fondness. I do enjoy norse myths as they are, and I am in fact christian lol. I simply am whining because I want to know the truth, gosh darn it!!!!*)

So what, exactly, did Snorri do?

Allow me to set the scene. Snorri was both Icelandic and Christian, and he was absolutely obsessed with viking poetry. Like, seriously. Snorri was so obsessed with them he decided he wanted to be the king’s Skald- which was often Icelandic. (A skald was a highly honored post- it was a cross between chief counselor and court jester, and was an extremely influential position, with the freedom they had to even scold the king without consequences. [Skald=scold]) He was a 40 year old poet with big dreams. And he was a good poet too- he knew he was.

Unfortunately for him, the king wasn’t interested.

The issue? The king was a 14 year old boy who was much more interested in learning about King Arthur and the knights of the round table than his own history- which was kind of personally offensive to Snorry. The king thought that Snorri was terribly dry and boring- just like viking poetry.

Now, the main reason it was so dry and boring and confusing was the kennings I mentioned earlier- which might have even been named that by Snorri himself. Kennings are a mix between a riddle and a trivia quiz, as one source explains it. “No poet writing in Old Norse before about 1300 would say ‘mead’ when he or she could say ‘waves of honey,’ or ‘ship’ instead of ‘otter of the ocean,’ or ‘sword’ instead of ‘fire of the spear clash’. And those are the easy kennings to figure out. The harder ones refer to Norse myths. For example, what did a Viking poet mean by saying ‘Aegir’s fire,’ or ‘freya’s tears,’ or ‘sif’s hair’? The norse gods Aegir and Freya and Sif hadn’t been worshiped for over 200 years in Norway or Iceland. Few people remembered the old stories of gods and dwarfs and giants, and so the old poems hardly made sense.” So, of course the boy-king wasn’t interested in the poems, and sent him home.

Snorri took this as a challenge.

He had first, in 1220, wrote an elaborate poem in praise of the king and his regent. Said poem was 102 stanzas long, in 100 different styles- which was unprecedented. Snorri was literally amazing.

It wasn’t the best place to start, however.

Luckily for Snorri, he realized this and didn’t send it. Instead, he took the time to write a section explaining how skaldic poems worked- including kennings. Then he began to write myths that would explain the kennings- myths that he’d heard, stories he’d pierced together from old poems, and others that he himself simply made up- which is a great deal of the reason why the characters rarely gave the impression that they needed to be feared and worshiped. Like Thor- he’s quite the idiot in the myths that Snorri wrote. Snorri didn’t fear or worship these gods- he just liked poetry, man. (Thor was nowhere near the idiot Snorri portrayed him as- he was the favorite god. Everything was named after Thor- nothing was of Odin. In fact, Odin is rarely mentioned- and is, from what i understand, the least norse of the gods- only belatedly one of them at all. However, Odin was Snorri’s favorite- and thor was demoted to comic relief.)

Thats also likely the reason for alllllll the mentions of sex, and the insane results- like Sleipnir, or Jormungand. He was trying to keep a 14 year old boy interested- of course he’s going to fall back on dirty humor. Loki was often a main feature of his stories, and often the mischievous antagonist.

Heck, the tale of where poetry even came from can be blamed on- i mean claimed by Snorri. He really, really liked both mead and he liked poetry, and he was trying to convince the boy-king to get interested in Snorri and hire him, and to scold him at the same time. (Its also said that the myth perverts an ancient ceremony- from celtic sources) It says more about Snorri than it does genuine myths.

Snorri also had a mild obsession with connecting the gods to troy and each other and people in weird ways. Like how he was constantly making couples be ‘married’, when originally they were only lovers- maybe even one time lovers.

Like Odin and Skadi.

Or Freyr and Gerdr. Its said that Freyr fell in love with the giantess Gerdr and sent his servant to get her by whatever means necessary. “She refuses at first, but when Skirnir threatens her and curses her, she gives in, and agrees to meet the god, nine nights hence.”

However, according to snorri, they get married- which is never stated in the poem. He also made up an oc- i mean, gave them a son. (Why? Swedish kings claimed descent from Freyr and his son. He also said that Swedish kings were descended from Odin.) He also showed Freyr as lovesick and weakened by his love for Gerdr- and how Freyr gave up his magical sword to win the giantess, which meant that the giants had it. The original poem only said that he gave his servant the sword and horse for the journey- it didn’t say anything about them being gifts.

Thats a pretty mild example, but you can imagine how much worse the others are.

For instance, the beginning of the world. First, he claims the world begins in a volcanic eruption before freezing into ice. That can’t be an ancient myth, because Norway- and the rest of the scandinavian homelands- are not volcanic. Only Iceland was ‘geologically active’, as was discovered when Norse paganism already began to wane. Then, the idea that the world is created by the dismembered body of a giant can be attributed to the idea floating around philosophical treatises of the time, based on Plato. Even the cow can probably be attributed to Snorri, as no other source mentions a giant cow. “A cow, to Snorri, would have been the obvious source of monstrous sustenance. Like all wealthy Icelanders, Snorri was a dairyman. He was also, as I’ve said, a Christian. It fits with his wry sense of humor for the first pagan god to be born from a salt lick.” (Which, when said like that, is objectively hilarious)

Heck, the idea that Odin was the “All-father” who gave men immortal souls and welcomes the righteous to the halls of the dead is very christian-like. It would make it more… welcoming, perhaps, to a young christian king who’d been raised by bishops.

Heck, the valkyries- before Snorri, they were monstrous troll women of gigantic size who rode wolves and poured blood over the battlefield. They rowed a boat (hah!) across the sky, trailing a rain of blood. They were known for their ‘evil smell’ and put me in mind of evil vulture-harpies. Snorri, however, created the iconic valkyries we know and love today- beautiful, powerful warrioresses, who serve valiant men mead.

Now, I promised to go over the Baldr myth before I ended my self-debunk session.

You know the basics of the myth- i can go over it if someone wants me to, but rn the word count is already too high,, so we’re just gonna go over the FiShY parts.

First, the part where Baldr is killed by mistletoe. Snorri had no idea what mistletoe was, since it didn't grow in iceland and was rare in norway. Mistletoe is a parasitic vine found at the top of an oak tree- its not a tree itself. “The ‘golden bough’ of folklore, it was gathered in some cultures at the summer solstice; picking it caused the days to shorten. Originally, it seems, the death of Baldr was a drama of the agricultural year. Snorri did not see it that way. In his mythology, time is not cyclical. Baldr does not die off and come back each year like summer. Instead, Baldr’s death causes Ragnarok, in which the old gods are killed and the old earth destroyed in a fiery cataclysm.”

Mistletoe was, in fact, Baldrs bane- but not in the way Baldr interpreted it. He dramatized it because mistletoe was called ‘mistilsteinn’. Other icelandic words ending in ‘teinn’ referred to swords, and mist is the name of a valkyrie. Surely a plant named ‘valkyrie’s sword’ must be highly symbolic, and deadly.

No where before Snorri is there a version of the myth where Frigga forces an oath out of everything on earth to keep Baldr safe. It doesn’t say that Loki discovered the secret of mistletoe’s being overlooked and guiding Hod’s hand. In fact, Loki’s not mentioned in this context at all.

And only snorri continues the tale with Baldr being retrieved from Hel- in exchange for a ransom, brought by a volunteer named Hermod- who is a god in no other story. (You and your ocs, Snorri)

Theres the whole scene of Baldr’s funeral thats almost absurdly comical, including the gods’ strength being stolen by their grief until they had to get a giantess who rode a wilf with vipers as reins to launch the ship he was to be sent to the sea in, so fast that the earth quaked and fire spurted in its wake. Then, of course, Thor was personally offended that the giantess was stronger than him (??? why snorri) and wanted to bash out the giantess’ brains- and would have tried if the other gods hadnt stopped him. Baldr’s wife, Nanna, drops dead of grief and gets chucked onto the pyre with Baldr- which doesnt exsist in any other known version. Then, of course, they murdered Baldr’s horse, and after teh pyre was consecrated and all that crap and set aflame, thor trips over a dwarf. He kicked at the guy and then literally threw him into the fire of the pyre and he was burned. (???! wHy snorri)

Then we go to hel, and see how things are progressing. The journey itself is quite christian- based off of ‘Christ’s Harrowing of Hell’ from the Gospel of Nicodemus that was popular in iceland at the time. For example, Christ rode a great white horse into hell- so Hermod rode Sleipnir, who was also white. (And eight-legged, but thats neither here nor there) The journey continues, and Hermod finds Baldr sitting in the seat of honor, and Hermod stays the night. In the morning, he tells Hela that everyone was really upset and asks her to let Hermod take Baldr home. (Baldrs horse, burned on the pyre, was safe in Hel’s stables)

Hela was curious, so she set it all to a test. ‘“If all things in the world, alice or dead, weep for him,” she decreed, “Then he shall go back.” If anything refuses to weep, he stays in hel.’

So the gods sent messages everywhere to tell people they needed to cry for Baldr- and so does everyone and everything. (Which includes a fun little explanation for condensation- its merely objects weeping for Baldr, of course) Except, of course, a supremely ugly giantess that Snorri claims is Loki- which of course, isnt insinuated in other versions.

“With baldr’s death, chaos is unleashed. The gods have lost their luck, the end of the world is nigh: Ragnarok, when Loki and his horrible children, the wold Fenrir and the Midgard Serpent, will join forces with the giants to destroy the gods.”

And thats it. No rebirth or anything.

First, why was Baldr in Hel if he was so wonderful?? He definitely should not have been there. Furthermore- why is his horse in Hel, and not the dwarf, who was clearly viewed in an unfavorable light? And where is Baldr’s wife? Is she with him, and just wasn’t important enough to be mentioned? Did she go to one of the hall’s for warriors? (Though i never got the feeling that she was a warrior herself) Plot holes galore.

Honestly though, even though he messed up a crap ton of stuff, he’s kinda funny, and I genuinely love the idea of him in itself- in fact, I’m planning on using him as inspiration in my original novel lol. I mean, the idea of a poet, all vain and puffed up and convinced hes the absolute best, who deserved this incredibly high position in another country, throwing down his best work with extreme pride, only to be rejected out of hand by a literal child who had no desire to learn his own history? And then the poet, out of freaking spite, goes home and writes a crap ton of poetry ‘for dummies’, targeted specifically to be interesting to a child, and warping the stories any way he could to do so, that then become the most well-known source of the myths?

H i l a r i o u s.

A great inspiration to us all. Thanks, Snorri.

(Heh, he also was the inspiration for some Big writers- like Tolkein, who i love, and neil gaiman, who im less familiar with- lol. So i hate him but i also love him ig)

What the heck does this even mean, Regina??? (In other words: way too freaking long, shut up and just gimme the nutshell)

Basically? Believe what you want to believe! We’re going off of the scraps of relics we can’t hope to ever truly understand- assuming that the people who made them even put that much thought in them (‘cause I know I rarely do when im art-ing)- and the fanfictions- i mean, creative interpretations and fantastic retellings of a dude with a pretty clear agenda.

Every single one of these deities could have been a solar deity at one point in time- maybe even multiple times, with multiple combinations. Maybe different eras marked different interpretations of the sun(/moon), maybe it was just by area or personal choice. Maybe none of them were, and we have yet to discover the truth- if we ever will. And im certainly no expert. This all came from me doing a google search and spiraling down deeper and deeper- as im sure you all understand lol.

Either way, it literally cannot be argued that Freyr has zero(0) connection to the sun, so its entirely plausible that he’d show up to a multi-pantheon meeting of sun gods lol.

And bear in mind that I’ve barely scratched the surface here- every single thing ive touched on has sooooooooo much more than I put here XD And some of it remains on the websites of my sources, which imma list for y’all. Theres plenty more beyond those, however.

None of this really, truly matters in reference to how you take inspiration from norse myths. Play with it, have fun- pick and choose pieces you like and discard the rest. Its just here because I think its cool lol

Now, how I personally rationalized this all into the riordanverse previously? (Which you guys are totally welcome to take inspiration from- you dont have to ask if you dont want to! I only want to see your work, whatever it is, because its gonna be amazing and no way im gonna miss out on it lollllllll)

Way back when, when the universe came to be, so did Sol and Mani. Unfortunately, the two were never quite finished- and so they never woke up. Fast forward, and Njord and Nerthus are in charge of both the sun and the moon, with njord having made a fiery chariot from the light of the fire giants’ realm. Over time, they moved on, and Frey and Freya took over, having helped their father and mother and/or aunt for the entirety of their lives. By this time, they adopted 2 wolves, who they loved very very much. Freya and Freyr took the job equally, changing every day, their wolf-helpers changing with them. The wolves just so happened to be the actual sun/moon- far brighter than the earlier chariot. Eventually, Freyr and Freya were chosen to keep the peace between the aesir and vanir, with their dad so he could take care of his little godlings. Freya takes half of the underworld for heroes from Odin, which she had often visited in the ship that toted the sun when the moon rose into the sky (when it was her turn). She had taken great joy in bringing sunshine, light, and happiness to the dead, and eagerly accepted the chance to do so officially. This means that Freyr is now in charge of both chariots and wolves- which is kind of difficult, but he managed.

Then the giant came to build the wall for the gods, as the stories say, and he desired both Freya and Freyr- Freyr as both moon and sun. (I went on and on about how that was such a power move in my original notes, which was kinda hilarious to read XD not sure why i was so impressed with that lol) Afterwards, Loki gives Freyr a new, fancy-er boat, which Freyr uses to send the sun below the sea and into the underworld, visiting his sister and bringing the sun to the dead. He then would raise the moon while Freya took care of the sun, and then vice versa. (He raised them with the chariot and wolves, and lowered them with the ship) Freyr began to be worshiped for a great many things- few of which he had time for. (I never got the impression that norse gods had that ability lol) This was quite distressing, and concerning.

Meanwhile, Sol and Mani had been discovered by a mortal man. Its quite evident that they are gods- judging by their swift grow to intelligence, even if emotional maturity is at a normal pace, and physical growth somewhere in between. (yeah no sources for that dont question it) Beyond that, they were also very much divinely beautiful, and they also maybe kind of glowed sometimes. He was a greedy man, and took great pleasure in the knowledge that he had such clearly important gods for his obedient ‘children’. In his pride, he named them after the sun and moon- the greatest treasures of the heavens, that he has hidden away in his arms. In this time, he gave sol to her husband, and i figure its actually a fine relationship? Havent looked much into it lol.

In any case, the gods discover them, and punish the man and rescue the twins. And its wonderful, and they are all so happy- except that they have no role. Now, Freyr was pretty gosh darn tired by this point, and wanting to move on from sole command of the sun and moon both. He’d had Baldr helping him- such a good, helpful lad- but Baldr had his own responsibilities as well, and so did his wife, when she stepped in. He looked at their glowing skin and made some swift decisions. “Look,” he said. “They glow, just as their namesakes do- just as they should. Clearly, they are to take care of the moon and sun- and i will not contest them for it.” And so it was. Freyr focused on helping Sol, while Baldr (and Nanna) trained Mani. This is why Baldr and his wife were both connected to light- the moon in particular, although the sun as well. This is also why Freyr still has such control over the sunlight and how it effects earth. (Btw, the two wolves are still visited by Freyr and Freya, of course, but they are brought out every day/night by the twins, who take care of them and play with them. Neither wolf has plans to eat the twins- they are merely playing a game when they chase them.)

Then Baldr and Nanna are killed and the moon is suddenly so much weaker. Mani just cant keep up- until he adopts two kids, who take the jobs. Unfortunately, since they are/were mortals, they tire- and this is why the moon waxes and wanes.

(theres also the dude who holds the shield to protect the earth from the sun’s burning rays [thanks to surt being furious ab the light stolen from his realm]- maybe something to do with Freyr, or Sol’s husband??)

To start ragnarok, as it is in some versions, it is fenrir who will swallow the sun and the moon, rather than the adorable puppies- i mean, fierce and determined workers. Their children will take the role after, while Freyr fights Surt.

The end. ~Thank you and goodnight~

Aaaand thats a wrap, my lovelies!!!!! Im really tired and its past 10 here and i still need to do my math homework (also, ironically, im doing THIS instead of my ACTUAL mythology homework… tho tbf, im not sure if thats actually due tomorrow or not) and at least listen to the songs im going to be performing tomorrow, since im like. A veteran in our choir now, and i kinda hate it bc ewww responsibilityy. sO, if theres any plot holes or anything confusing in this, please please please please PLEASE lemme know. In case u cant tell, i love talking, im terrible at explaining things.

I really hope this answered your question, my friend XD

(I also have, like, a lot of things to post on tumblr XD and snippets of stories to wrap up and publish on ao3 and see if i can do more for the monthly prompts lollllll. And to catch up on discord XDXXDXDXD especially since my best friend has now joined, and i havent even hopped on 😅busy, busy, busy lol)

(Also does anyone know if there's a way to make things u copy and paste into tumblr to stay underlined, italicized, whatever????)

Love y’all soooooooooooooooooo much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <3<3<3

Sources (*note that i read a ton of others, these are just the ones i took enough from to credit them*):

https://www.duo.uio.no/bitstream/handle/10852/57994/Lan-Wang-thesis.pdf?sequence=1

https://www.worldhistory.org/article/1911/the-sun--the-moon-in-norse-myth/

https://norsespirit.com/blogs/mythology/freyr?srsltid=AfmBOop02PnTHoKx0QTZ93g_m5h637-_6P8PJJWngUnxjOnyl3mozpjz

https://web.archive.org/web/20100401223136/http://northvegr.org/lore/prose/037040.php

https://earthandstarryheaven.com/2015/06/17/politics-myth/b

https://odsmal.org/sol-sun-and-nanna-mani-baldur/

https://ydalir.ca/norsegods/nanna/

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/28497/28497-h/28497-h.htm#ch21 https://reactormag.com/seven-norse-myths-we-wouldnt-have-without-snorri/

https://medium.com/@nyxshadowhawk/how-christian-is-norse-mythology-b9e0a6a1a029

[wintergrofyuri]

i had to write down my mithrun ship thoughts. i rlly struggle with my stance on shipping mithrun with anyone, bc like. i genuinely dont believe he's thinking about any of that stuff like. at all. he's so obsessed with the demon and killing it (or finally dying by it) that he barely even eats ykno. i do think he has friends, but like. thats where it ends ykno. like. its pretty vague how having no/little to no desires works rlly and it just further muddles my thoughts on it all. but what we Do know, is that it basically boils down to horrible, awful trauma. the demon is pretty much just an abusive relationship. a magical abusive relationship, but still. someone you thought you could trust, someone you confided in, but really they were just using you for their own gain. and when they're done with you, they leave you lost and empty. it scars you.

to me, mithrun is still too focused on that relationship. his anger and hurt has turned into obsession. he wants to hurt it, kill it, destroy it before it can hurt anyone else. he doesnt see himself as a person anymore. he's a weapon. solely for the purpose of taking down the demon. he cant sleep, he cant eat, his body is nothing but a tool designed to kill the person who made it. like a cyanide pill.

so no i dont really think mithrun would be into anything resembling an actual romantic relationship.

now thats not to say he doesnt care about his friends. hes human, despite how much he's convinced himself hes not. humans need companionship to survive. connections and relationships. i think he has a difficult time realizing he cares tho. or letting himself accept others' care. its all very complicated and messy, especially with the canaries. kabru had to basically take a baseball bat to his skull to get him to stop being an idiot and realize he has things to fucking live for. piece of shit.

so. cithis and lycion arent romantic. milsiril is a weird codependant thing. idk i have trouble putting it into words. and senshi.. he can teach him how to properly hold a knife.. they're perfect for each other. really i think senshi is the best option possible for mithrun. the more i think about it the more im endeared by it.

[chekhovs-nailgun]

Honestly it's crazy how being an anti slowed my recovery from my abuse because my brain deciding to develop fetishes based on what happened to me, according to everyone around me, clearly meant that I put myself in that situation on purpose and that I was at fault and actually enjoyed it 😬🙄😒 No one hates victims more than antis. Speaking as a former one seeing how I acted towards other victims because I was impressionable and "trying to be right" still makes me ill. I hope anyone who has been harassed by antis and told they deserved what they got finds peace. And anyone who is an anti and feels disgusted at themselves for experiencing trauma "the wrong way" finds not just peace but better friends too 😕

from what i’ve seen, antis do all of this in the name of “saving the kids” or “preventing abuse” and they either don’t realize they’re perpetuating abuse directly or they do realize it, and they’ve just convinced themselves that because of their target, it’s okay (which is abuser 101 but they seem to ignore that). and since they can’t actually do anything that matters (like supporting and listening to victims, donating to organizations that help victims) since it doesn’t give them any direct satisfaction, they take it out on random people for shipping, idk, bart simpson with marge or some shit. they don’t even care that reading/drawing/consuming random ship content is too broad a category to consistently catch actual criminals. at the base of it, they don’t give a shit about real victims. they just want a vague enough entity to “protect” so that they have an excuse to seek out things that they don’t want to see and act like assholes

being an anti and a writer interested in creating dark fiction was really fucked up. my antagonists were shallow and when i tried to write central conflicts (like dealing with the repercussions of CSA, emotional incest, etc) i danced around it because i was afraid that people would think i was a nasty proshipper who was glorifying bad things, that i deserved what happened to me, et cetera. looking back, im so glad i got out of there, because if i didn’t everything i write would be so shitty and emotionless because of that same fear. i’m proud of you for getting out of there too, anon. it takes a lot of courage and maturity to admit you were wrong especially after you were trying so hard to be right

btw sorry it took me so long to post this i had it saved in my drafts for a while and forgot 💔 tysm for the ask tho i love talking to you guys

[therealressii]

do you mind if i give feedback on the game you're making?

i played a little bit of it (i got to the temple place) and so far i love the art style, but it is super not obvious what is and isnt an enemy? like i saw these garbage worms that damaged me, but they where so thin i died to them and didnt even see them

i also encountered what i think is a bug, where if you jump and then quickly jump after, you can almost double jump, and it gives you enough height to clear distances you probably could only climb without, however it does feel satisfying to pull off, therefore im unsure if its intended or not. i also couldnt heal, despite there being a control shown at the beginning that said i could, not sure if theres a reason for that or not

(also sorry i realize its kinda rude to ask if you want feedback, but then give it anyway, take that what you will lol)

last thing, a lot of the enemies are super vague in how they attack, and a lot of the time i die, its because an enemy i encountered hits me with something i cant really dodge, like the firelizzard guy, i hit him enough and then it blows up and jumps at me? i cant do any damage to it without dying before i land a hit, its just super confusing

i will say though, the platforming is really fun, if its a bit finicky, but so far the art style is stunning, and i love how the main character moves and looks. they look like they give good hugs lmao

sorry if this seems overly negative, but i love the game so far, and i cant wait to play more of it! (it might also be a problem with my potato laptop that i use lmao) ((also i realize this is a MASSIVE ask, its really easy to talk about this game it seems. i cant believe how little people are talking about this! its such a cool game so far and EOURGH i love it and i love the characters they hit all the right spots with me EUIUGH))

sorry for my inefficient way of typing, and the wall of text uuuh your really cool and i wish more people talked about your game and your art because its absolutely amazing how much you have made and how little its talked about! this is such a diamond in the rough and its absolutely stunning

thank you so much for playing, i always welcome feedback so don't worry about that and to address each point:

it was deliberate to make some enemies very hard to spot (blame pikmin 2 and rainworld) but it could be worth considering adding some additional audio and/or visual indicator i did plan on adding low threat music to play when any enemy was near you (similar to rainworld) though i haven't gotten around to learning how to make music yet so we'll have to see

yea that's a bug that appeared pretty early in development, a consequence of how the game detects if the player is on the ground or not i haven't bothered to fix it as my general rule for bugs is if it doesn't negatively affect the player or gameplay, i wont bother touching it so semi intended

im curious, did you ever craft any upgrades or know about that, including the healing potions needed to heal i didn't provide any tutorial or indication that there was a craft system for upgrades since i assumed that at one point or another the player would try to figure out what they could do with the materials that came from enemies, plants, and such sorry if that sounded rude, im genuinely curious for obvious game design purposes since i wanted to make roa with as little tutorial as possible to let players figure out the game without too much hand holding, but i could definitely add some additional tutorial/indicator besides the interactable arrow indicator

im guessing you went to the ruda'ishvura temple region straight away and that area is purposely filled with enemies with much higher health pools and damage its basically to indicate to players who get there early that they may need more health and general upgrades though i don't block it off based on boss progression since i want to allow the player to explore and well figure out their limits tho i could try make certain enemies a lil less confusing (not promises on that sorry akfaghs)

lastly, im curious about the "potato laptop" comment, were you experiencing stutters or anything like that optimization wasnt really my main concern at the beginning given that i just wanted to get something out there and as long as the game ran 60+ fps on my setup in the editor, i considered it good enough to run on most pcs and laptops but i might have to do an optimization patch of sorts if there are issues on lower end setups

anyways thank you so much again for playing roa and for the feedback, it is always good to get insight from different player experiences and their reactions/responses to my admittedly silly game design philosophies for my game