#if you voted for trump as a radfem then that's what you voted for - women dying and child brides

[handkinkbis]

There's no way forward for leftism or feminism if we let relatively small indiscretions or disagreements divide us into smaller and weaker factions. If we stop cooperating with one another, then we might as well give up, because we'll never convince the masses to stop attacking women or LGBTQ+ people when we spend more time bad mouthing and attacking one another than attacking the far right conservatives who are trying to bully us into hiding. Antifeminists and white supremacists will have their work cut out for them, because we'll be purity testing one another to death.

I'd consider myself a radfem, but being against trans rights is both a waste of time and is a net negative for society. People can disagree on the definition of gender without denying trans people's right to existence, safety and respect.

Black or female separatism will probably not address racism and misogyny, but it'll inspire distrust towards potential allies. I'm all pro 4B and decentering men and whiteness, but conservative white men and women are cooperating together to sabotage women and black people's advancement. When will progressives of all genders and races unite under the same resistance movement?

Right now it looks like there will never be allies who are pure and scrupulous enough. Cooperation doesn't have to mean abandoning one's values.

[vaspider]

What do you think of the 4b movement

I think I don't know enough about South Korean culture to give a fully-informed opinion within that context, but I definitely think that any importation of it to the United States is just going to be radical feminism with a coat of 'you can't criticize this because it has a non-white source.'

And I think that this:

United States interest After the 2024 United States Presidential election where Donald Trump won a second term, many women expressed interest in following the 4B movement. Shortly after the election was called the interest in the movement was seen on TikTok where videos mentioning it were viewed hundreds of thousands of times, and Google search's about it spiked by 450%. American women have also commented on the movement calling it the "4 Nos" and "Lysistratra".

profoundly misses the fact that an awful lot of white women voted for Trump. So. Eh.

Radfems gonna radfem, you can put whatever coat of paint on it you want, it's still going to be biological determinism that centers itself around what it isn't rather than what it is.

[bananonbinary]

apparently a radfem movement called 4B is getting a surge of popularity on social media since the election, with the reasoning, "if men do not respect us, they should not have access to us at all." the idea is to withhold all sex and intimacy until women have all their rights.

and like. putting aside all the many many reasons that radfem ideology and bioessentialism sucks, and the fact that "men" are not a group you can "negotiate" with as a whole because they are not an organized group with leadership, this is just....a very very dangerous game to be playing.

like. okay. there are two scenarios on how this could play out, because again, it isn't any sort of organized "protest" between ""the sexes,"" it's just gonna be some women and their partners, who do not really give a shit about what a bunch of strangers on tiktok are doing.

option 1) he already respected women's rights, voted against abortion bans, and cannot actually change anything on his own. you are making both him and yourself miserable for literally no reason at all. you have turned what should be a really nice relationship where you can relax into a weird adversarial thing that abhors real vulnerability. this is the BETTER option.

option 2) he IS a trump supporter who thinks he should have access to all women's bodies. in which case, saying "no more sex until you give me rights" is NOT going to go down the way you think it is. you do not have collective bargaining power here. you are going to get very badly hurt, and an already probably abusive relationship is going to get a lot worse. that's not to say that a woman in that position would in any way "deserve" it, just that. when you are faced with an abuser, you should absolutely not try to play mind games or reassert your power to them. you should try and get the fuck out. call real organizations that can help you, don't follow random bullshit tiktok trends. those influencers will NOT give you a place to stay when shit hits the fan.

anyway the national domestic violence hotline is 800-799-SAFE.

[niiiimu]

the most pathetic thing i've seen to come out of the election is self proclaimed "radfems" openly admitting they voted for trump, a man with several sexual assault allegations against him just because he can define what a woman is. you cannot believe that women are safer under a literal rapists leadership just because he knows what a woman is.

the entire dylan mulvaney schtick and the discussion of imane khelif peaked so many women and convinced them to be right wing. and women voted for him and what he stands for... a disgusting man who doesn't even believe they deserve anatomy, freedom, or rights.

[radykalny-feminizm]

Reproductive rights have been under attack for years, but terfs like you were too busy harassing trans people to stand up for them and instead regurgitating anti-trans propaganda being used as a wedge issue by republicans. 55% of white women in America voted for Trump and I blame people like you who thought their hobby of being a nasty asshole to trans people was more important than the lives of people who are now going to be denied access to abortion care even in matters of life and death. You can stop pretending you were ever any kind of feminist now

I live in a country where abortion has been banned for years you absolute fucking dumbass. And guess what, idiots of your kind who live in my country are still more concerned about tRaNs rIgThs than about the fact that half of our population is denied basic healthcare.

So YOU should stop pretending that you ever cared about women because I'm 100% sure that you were more outraged when someone used 'wrong' pronouns than when men were agitating for abortion ban. The only people who have been talking about it were us radfems, while y'all were crying about the fact that people don't believe that you can gender-identify as a fucking cat.

I'm quite amazed by the mental gymnastics you performed to blame feminists for the US elections outcome rather than, idk, conservative men who are actually behind this? But I shouldn't be surprised because for misogynists like you everything is always women's fault.

Fuck you.

[radfem-polls]

Hi sisters 👋

It's not a poll, I'm sorry if it's not okay to ask, but I was hoping that I could ask this to the radfem community here.

I'm struggling to understand something and I was hoping that the us black radfem could help me understand this topic.

I'm not from the us and I've never been there so I guess that's why I struggle to understand this topic.

I've seen a lot of afro Americans women claiming that white woman are equally violent and privileged as men. At first from ''random'' women then in the lgbt community, then the feminist one and also in the autistic community. (Even if there was some spreading misinformation from the latest but that's not my point.)

And lately, there was this question from and to black women that pop-up and became popular similarly as the bear or a man :

"Would you feel safer in a room full of white men or full of white women?" I think it was about in the work field but I'm not sure (correct me if I'm wrong).

And not a single answer was women.

So it makes me think and questions things. And I understand that women have to compete with all the other women to hope have some crumbs left from men.

So I understand that's not comfortable, we get both solidarity/sorority and competitivity/pushing eachother down from all of us. But this is not specific to black women.

And this is nothing compared to what men does to us like constant sexual harassment, sexual assault and rape every day or so etc. But still apparently white women are as violent as men towards black women and I can't find data about this. I found about black Vs white in general but not specifically from women to women.

And I didn't find this discourse? Topic? From other community that also face racism like Latinos or indigenous, just the afro descendants.

They also claim that they are the only one facing misogyny. (I was putting this on the us culture, as the USA culture is literally I'm the center of the world, me Vs the world, the world revolved around me etc but then I wonder why the Asians or other communities don't have the same speech so it just confuses me even more).

This sounds insanely and factually wrong to me from what I know and from all the data, studies etc that I've read or consulted but it can't be all wrong, especially if an entire community feel this way and collectively agree on this. So I'm hoping that you will have some answers for me because I can't ask them.

If you question this, like asking clarification, to better understand why they feel collectively this way, it's racist because you don't already know the answer and apparently you should.

Can someone please explain me what happened/is happening? This is not related to the trump election, I mean, the results of the white women votes are just an addition to it but it's something that I've seen for months, I was trying to collect enough information but obviously I still can't understand it so I'm asking you.

If someone already wrote about this, or if you're willing to help me understand it, I would be very grateful! Thanks ! 🫶

I tried to summarize this into a single question, but go ahead and read the entire ask before discussing.

-🐌

[hacash]

the discussions around the 4B movement in America are making break into anticipatory hives not because the poor men Need The Sex or whatever, but because it adds an element of 'should/should not' to women's sex lives where we've been trying so hard for so long to remind people that that element should not exist (except for things like consent, obvs).

like, if you personally feel like with everything that is going on in the US you can't enter into a romantic relationship or have kids or whatever, I fully support that. I would have said as much if Trump won or Harris won or Stein won. only having romance or sex or kids when you're in the place for it should not be a concept that is new to anyone. if people had started and stopped at 'ladies, just remember that contrary to Trump's every statement, your body is your own and you should make these choices based on what's best for you', I would be all for it.

but it's the fact that this is being framed not as a personal choice made for the benefit of the choosers, but a movement. it's the call for women to join the movement as a way of supporting their sisters. it's the people saying women should be cutting off romantic relationships with men until they behave better; it's the people saying women should not have sex with men to punish them for their votes. so are we now agreeing with the framing that there are times when women should have sex and times when she shouldn't (beyond the basic 'when she wants to/when she doesn't want to')? can't you see how that's a pretty dangerous concept to lean into?

(never mind that portraying sex and romance as a reward for men is hella dodgy framing in itself. but that's a whole other post.)

and what does this mean in practical terms? what happens if one of your 4B sisters meets a man who voted for every protection for women imaginable and decides this is someone she wants to make a life with; how do you react then? are you going to support her or shun her? how are you going to react if someone in the 4B movement decides that actually she'd love to have kids? do we not yet get that the wider implications of separatism never actually work? are women who do decide that sex and romance and families with men is something they want now letting their fellow women down? we agree it's unacceptable for a man to say when a woman 'should' have sex/kids/romantic relationships, but it's ok when it's another woman saying it?

it's all very well to say this is a personal choice people are making and I wish I could believe it, but I'm already seeing posts on social media along the lines of 'ugh well there'll always be stupid women ready to be with men so they're already letting us down'. ok great, so now we've circled around so far that it's becoming acceptable to shame women for having sex with men. it's a good thing no-one else does that.

(also any movement that is cited as coming from the radfems should be treated with definite caution. just saying.)

[sophieinwonderland]

The fact that people are already getting outraged about me comparing sysmeds to Trump supporters really proves my point about double standards in syscourse.

"How dare you point out similarities in groups who hate different marginalized communities? This is disgusting!"

Meanwhile, sysmeds will just casually tell us to kill ourselves for being an endogenic system.

Now that the election is over and I don't have to worry about what I say discouraging any of my followers from voting, let's acknowledge for real that the idea that everyone on the Left is more enlightened and less hateful towards marginalized people is a lie.

A lot of them didn't stop hating marginalized people. They just made sure to direct the hate towards smaller groups of marginalized people.

Often, in their very own communities. Yes, I am talking about sysmeds. But I'm also talking about transmeds. I'm talking about ace exclusionists. About transphobic radfems.

Like, gods, do you people just NEED to have a less powerful group to pick on THAT BADLY? Do you genuinely not see how you are doing the same exact things as the people who discriminate against you?

Do you think you're better than them just because you've managed to carve out more acceptable targets?

Here's a shoutout to the radfems who backed transphobic talking points and helped make sure women across the country won't be able to get an abortion. And here's to the transmeds and queer exclusionists who have encouraged constant infighting in queer communities, making it more difficult to mobilize against actual threats! The ones who want acceptance for queer people... but only the right kind of queer people. 🙄

Are these groups the reason why the election was lost? Probably not.

But their hate... that's the same. It's coming from the same place.

I realize this isn't some new brilliant observation either. It's the entire basis behind the "leftism leaving people's body" memes.

But I just needed to say this.

If we want a more inclusive world, it needs to be more inclusive for everyone.

[brothermoth]

the left wing of the ostrich

You know what? This is the fault of young people being so fucking stupid and unable to educate themselves with the vast fucking resources they have available. I don't give a shit how good or bad your formal schooling was. The internet is free and you can learn these skills entirely on your own by simply not being a goddamn reactionary fool.

You're not a fucking anarcho-communist or a Marxist leninist feminist or whatever the fuck y'all are spouting now. You're an uneducated shitheel who thinks calling yourself the most left sounding thing is going to make you better. You've never read Marx or Engles and I doubt half of you even understand the theory you claim to follow.

I'm not blaming this on anyone with a learning disability who has difficulty accessing educational materials by the way. This is about people who make a willful choice to be radicalized online. This is about people who do not have the common sense to pull their head out of their ass.

Gen z (I fucking hate generation labels but it is largely people 18-30 that this problem comes from) is one of the least educated groups of people with some of the lowest reading levels since public education became widely available.

These are people without an ounce of fucking kindness or goodwill in their heart who feel so much apathy toward any one group of people that they are not even willing to do anything but stare like a fucking fool and let shit happen.

Radfems get off your high fucking horses—you had a hand in this. If your feminism isn't based on basic human fucking empathy then you're nothing but a shill doing absolutely fuck all for women or anyone else for that matter. You're a bastardization of feminism and you should be fucking ashamed.

Anti voting cunts? Genuinely I want you to sit and spin. Your fake empathy is pathetic. You don't get to put myself and everyone I care about in front of the bus so you can get on your moral pedestal about being against genocide. Your hands are stained with fucking blood. You're an idiot and your stupidity and your silence is murderous. You had a chance to get off your ass and DO something that fucking mattered for the people in your own community and you basically told us we are not worth it. The man who wanted to shoot protestors will absolutely be beneficial for Gaza. Right.

You're such lukewarm activists that you believed misinformation about Kamala Harris that was so easy to just fucking verify. (No she did not imprison people for weed. She was in fact supportive of lessened sentences and education for prisoners so they can find jobs when they're free. She has done a LOT for people and she was put in a very difficult position where she could not risk losing the large pool of moderate voters.)

Hey "activists"! Do you know how your own fucking government works?

THE VICE PRESIDENT CANT DO SHIT. KAMALA HARRIS HAS LITTLE TO NO SAY ON WHETHER OR NOT WEAPONS GO TO ISRAEL.

Hell, BIDEN doesn't have much sway over that decision. Congress is red and they make the majority of foreign policy decisions you fucking stupid cunts.

Trans Americans will never forgive you. Black Americans will never forgive you. Poor Americans, disabled Americans, Latino Americans, Native Americans, Asian Americans and all the others.

I hope you regret the choices you made. Christ, I hope it fucking haunts you. Trump voters were always going to vote trump without hesitation but you? You had to play leftist and call every marginalized person who pleaded with you a liberal. You're pathetic. If I could spit on you via internet, I would.

Put your fucking head back in the sand. You can stop pretending to care now.

[aizenat]

Also queerios and libs need to have a real and honest talk about how trans ideology being attached to liberals and the Democratic Party was a huge reason for people to vote for Trump. No one wants to say it (I’m surprised the radfems haven’t made that point yet, but wait, they’re too busy trying to come up with excuses for why they—white women—voted for Trump in the majority), but exit polls had ppl saying they thought Kamala was “too leftist/progressive.” DESPITE her running a very conservative campaign that was just two talking points away from being a straight up republican campaign.

The trans ad (Kamala cares about they/them, not you) was running almost nonstop in PA—as someone who lives in south Jersey, meaning our local tv programming is based out of Philly, every time I turned my tv on this ad was running. And it’s a good and effective ad. SO MUCH SO THAT I HAD A COWORKER BRING IT UP AS A “MAJOR” THING SHE DISAGREED WITH KAMALA ON THE MORNING OF THE ELECTION.

Libs and tras can pretend the trans stuff wasn’t on ppls minds but it was. Literally up until they stepped into the voting booth. When ppl voted for trump saying he was better for the economy, that’s not based on actual policy. You can tell that because AFTER he was announced the winner, google searches for tarrifs went up. If ppl cared about the economy and how tarrifs would work (Kamala literally referred to them as essentially a tax on all goods to simplify them and yall just said herp durp this won’t hurt me financially at all), they would have been goggling that BEFORE the election.

So why did they think Trump was better for the economy? Because he doesn’t want to send aid to Ukraine, and he doesn’t want to use taxes to fund for trans inmates gender reassignment surgeries. That means fiscal responsibility to them.

When chappel roan got on an interview and said that the biggest “concern” she had was trans rights, people heard that and associated that with the party (democrats) who protect laws allowing for children to medically transition. In my state, hormones and gender reassignment surgeries are covered by most employers’ insurance, but cancer treatments and medically necessary surgeries are not (at least not automatically). THAT signals to the average person that politicians are not prioritizing the right things. Because trans ppl are (per their own words) less than 1% of the population, but they get so much more consideration than the average person. Companies care more about pronouns in their employees’ email signatures than they do about employees feeling like the work environment is racially insensitive or hostile towards women (etc).

And I’m sorry, but you can affirm a child’s gender reasonably without medically transitioning them. And most people, most PARENTS, are not going to be okay with the idea of fearing their child being taking away because they don’t want to pay for or facilitate medical transition until they’re at least 18 and had time to really reflect on if that’s what they want. And they don’t want to be labeled abusive for that.

THAT’S what a lot of people going into the booth were thinking about. That Kamala and democrats would prioritize THAT over raising wages and bringing down inflation and costs. Most working class ppl don’t care about gender identity and stuff: so anyone prioritizing that in a time of financial (and political) strife doesn’t look like someone who is going to prioritize what they need to survive and get by.

Tras need to really sit down and think about 1) how they go about lobbying for their rights (calling people genocidal for messing up a pronoun ain’t it cuz) and 2) what rights are worth lobbying for. For example, it’d be hard to argue against third spaces for gnc ppl in public spaces (bathrooms, changing rooms, etc). Same with third/coed sports leagues IN ADDITION TO mens and women’s leagues. Maybe lobby for your own safe spaces instead of demanding to be on spaces not in alignment with your born sex. Because that push back is only going to get worst and it’s not a battle even most liberals agree with. Especially when you also lobby for self identification over any proof of socially and medically transitions. What’s to stop a man who has no intentions of transitioning to go into a woman’s bathroom or changing room or enter a women’s sport league and claim he has a right to be there because he’s trans and we can’t question it?

And yall REFUSE to answer that honestly and then wonder why people don’t fuck with it. It’d be one thing if there was a barrier of entry, but y’all did away with that. So what are people going to do? At least when black ppl were lobbying for desegregation, it was in coed spaces. And if it was gendered, only the black ppl of said gender would participate (ie, only Black women would be on bathrooms with White women; not Black men as well). But you guys are trying to do away with that. And do away with any determinative way to know who the “real” trans people are vs someone just saying so to get access to a spot. And then if someone pushes back, you call THEM a bigot?

Like, women in Korea just about can’t piss in public because of how widespread hidden cameras are in bathrooms. And all I can think is what will stop an epidemic like that happening here if males can walk in easily and women aren’t even ALLOWED to question him because he MAY be trans?

If yall actually knew anything about Black literature (lol as if yall would read black authors and writers and poets lol), you’d see how all throughout our existence in our country, we have had to defend ourselves from the common perception of us. This is why Black people (well, the educated amongst us lol) are so GOOD at arguing against racist ideas. This is why every time I call a white radfem (or really any white feminist) out in their racism, they go for ad hominem attacks and straw men to try to discredit what I’m saying. And they fail because I straight know what I’m talking about lol.

Y’all’s language and concepts change each year. An argument or talking point is literally thrown away and seen as problematic within 5 years. We used to say that trans ppl are treated how they’re “read,” which helps to explain how their perception of how well or poorly they are able to conform to that read gender affects how others treat them, but now that’s transphobic to say. I literally have no idea what ppl mean when they say transmisogyny these days because it’s SO different from how it was used in 2010-2013. I have no idea what yall are talking about anymore!

Yall have to sit down, LISTEN TO PEOPLE’S CONCERNS instead of writing any pushback as transphobic, and really solidify what trans identity is, the actual signs and symptoms, how to treat it without medical intervention, and be honest on the lack of information and studies on medical intervention. Especially long term; a study following up with ppl who transitioned 50 years ago means nothing because the very concept of what a trans identity is has changed dramatically since then. Especially in the last decade alone!

Yall can’t be super counterculture and then expect the mainstream to rock with you. That’s not how that works. You need to pick a lane and at least come up with a better strategy on how to present the less counterculture aspects to the mainstream so they can understand what trans identities are outside of the radical. Outside of the clickbait titles. But honestly that means YALL coming to at least SOME consensus on what it even means to be trans because all the vague language around it isn’t helping. And when yall refuse to define yourselves, it means anyone else can go out there and define you for the world. This is why yall are losing the war on this. Yall have work to do to fix this shit.

[tra-archive]

I know you’ve already blocked sincerelyyellingback but someone asked her if she was an antivaxxer today (presumably wanting proof for the anon message you got earlier today) and she replied “hell yeah” - so not only is she ignorant, she’s proud of her ignorance. And also now she has a “both sides are the same coin” post pinned to her blog due to the criticism she’s receiving for voting trump. I’m so sick of people in this community outing themselves as the dumbest, most bigoted people alive smh.

I decided to check that out to verify. I had to use my simblr😩

1)

I never claimed she wasn’t a feminist. I asked how she could call herself a radical feminist while knowingly voting for a man who has several anti-woman positions, anti-abortion being a huge one. Do you really think Trump won’t get into office and take that choice away? If you think it’s bad now, just wait.

Also I’m sorry but you can’t claim both sides are the exact same. Both are full of misogynists, yes, but one side wants women, gay people, and POC to lose all their rights. “Repeal the 19th” is a huge thing among conservatives right now. Florida has been attempting to stop gay/bi teachers such as myself from being allowed to even mention our same-sex partners or even say the word gay to our students. Abortion bans are going to kill women and children.

Dems need to fix a lot of their priorities and there are more than enough sexist liberal men, but you can’t claim both sides are the same when one actively wants you back in the kitchen as your husband’s slave.

2)

I’m begging GCs to realize that conservatives don’t care about single-sex spaces because they care about women. Conservatives don’t even criticize trans ideology for the same reasons we do, they hate trans people because they’re homophobic and hate the idea of a feminine man or masculine woman- notice how they only care about “men in dresses” and not the inherent sexism of gender ideology. They don’t care about women getting our own safe spaces. Trump is the same one who said “grab them by the pussy,” he doesn’t care about women being and feeling safe.

Also as much as I’m against what’s going on in the Middle East and just want peace, things really won’t change with a Trump presidency. I don’t think either one of the two old fucks really cares about the innocent people being killed, if we’re being honest. Radfems are known for being anti-war so idk why she thinks we’re out here cheering on Biden for his part in the Israel/Palestine conflict.

3)

She’s trolling here, still weird though. Also a lot of people think only being against the covid vaccine is different than being “anti-vax,” but it’s the same thing. Not saying that’s what she believes but it’s what I’ve seen many say.

4)

I haven’t trashed you. You shared an opinion on a public social media platform and I shared my thoughts on that. I was not hateful towards you- I expressed my frustration with your choice to vote for Trump, but nowhere did I insult you or call for anyone to hate on you. It’s your choice to vote for who you want and it’s also my choice to talk about it.

Trust me, I know how to trash people- ask any of the TRAs who have sent me threats- and that is not what I did here. ���

I’m so fucking tired bc it seems like every week someone on radblr shares an opinion that’s bigoted or privileged (revived-frogs being pro-forced birth, redberry being racist, etc) and then gets mad when the rest of us call it out.

Don’t post things publicly if you can’t handle it. Maybe it’s because I’m a rudefem but I won’t hesitate to call out opinions I think are hateful, and that goes for radfems too.

[boreal-sea]

www.tumblr.com/femsolid/701727431780859904

This you?

Am I Femsolid? No. Do you mean to say my posts look like some of the ones in the screenshots? Also no. Like, laughably untrue.

TL;DR - the link is a list of screenshots, many of which are discussing radfem and terf red flags, others of which are people accusing other folks of being terfs.

Some of the red flags pointed out are very valid; in other cases, the person making the accusation is clearly in the wrong. It is a mixed bag of things that are true in certain contexts but none of which can be said to definitively mean much of anything.

---

I've actually made a whole post talking about how people shouldn't bend so far backwards in their attempt to spot radfems and terfs that they start spouting shit that's actually anti-feminist and in some cases downright misogyny.

Those screenshots are a mix of people being right and people being wrong.

One thing I will say straight up:

It is a tactic of TERFs to call trans people and trans allies "TERF" any time that person says anything even vaguely feminist because they are trying to confuse people into thinking there are a bunch of unhinged anti-feminist trans people out there.

They also do this because sometimes, if a trans ally is called "terf", and if they think it's trans people doing it, they may end up switching sides and becoming transphobic, so terfs are actively trying to recruit people through this method of harassment.

I'm not saying ALL of these posts are cases of cryptoterfs. But some of them feel pretty troll-like to me.

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First two to three screenshots: talking about sex-based oppression does not make you a terf. Sex-based oppression is real. Everyone knows this. My guess is that the people who made those posts are in fact TERFs themselves.

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"Raise boys and girls the same" is not terf rhetoric, that's basic feminism.

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"Women arent even oppressed" post - OP is a child. Their opinion is irrelevant.

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I dislike framing women as a "victim class" - I prefer to just call them marginalized as a class? And not all women are equally marginalized and some women DO have privilege over men. I don't agree with their phrasing here necessarily but they bring up good points.

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Saying someone can "feel like a woman" is not sexist.

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The next one calling out "afabs" in quotes talking about privilege is, overall, true.

The fact that this particular post uses "afab" instead of "cis women" though, is a red flag to me.

Some anti-transmasc people will use "AFAB" instead of "cis women" to lump trans afab people in with cis women and claim all afab people are on the same level of privilege/marginalization. This is not actually true, and cis women have more privilege than trans men.

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TERFs and radfems regularly throw trans men under the bus during abortion talks. This is just fucking true.

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Posts that tend to focus entirely on how all men are oppressors, posts that regularly refer to cis women as "females", and that try to claim that being a woman is an identity based on shared suffering...

That stuff can indeed be a red flag that the post is by a terf or radfem.

---

Unfortunately, middle-aged white women in American tend to be conservatives. They overwhelmingly voted for Trump. They are very likely to be transphobic. I don't personally advise people to stereotype like that, but it does make me do more research and look through that person's posts to see what they're saying about trans people. Like the OP of that post, I have rarely been wrong.

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Anyone who self-identifies as a misandrist is unsafe for trans people, and it is a HUGE red flag that the person is both transphobic and a radfem.

Also, anyone can suffer from misogyny.

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Again, unfortunately, a lot of pro-feminist symbols and phrases are used by radfems and terfs, and they tend to use those phrases more openly than normal feminists do, so those are indeed red flags.

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On Tumblr, seeing "anti makeup" on someone's profile is a red flag.

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The body hair post: this reads like a terf's parody of what they THINK trans men say and it's honestly hilarious.

All the trans men I know are huge feminists who believe anyone of any gender or sex should have the right to do whatever they want with their body.

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Yeah uh that's transphobic as hell. WTF Lady Gaga? You're usually very trans-inclusive.

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Nah I'm gonna keep saying "sexism".

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Yeah, talking about the trauma of girlhood is unfortunately often a terf dogwhistle. Not always, but it's a red flag and you have to go double check. I sure wish transphobia wasn't so rampant among radfems and I wish this wasn't necessary, but it is.

---

"There's no wrong way to be a woman/girl" has very specifically been used against me, a trans man, as a way to misgender me and tell me I'm harming little girls by being trans. I completely understand other transmascs feeling like this phrase is a red flag.

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The last screenshot is the weirdest thing I've ever tried to understand and if I'm reading it correctly, they're claiming that trans rights are more important that women's rights?? Fucking bonkers.

Women's rights are human rights, too.

You cannot try to places human rights into a hierarchy. They are all equally important. Women's rights, trans rights, racial equality, etc - all of these are spokes on a wheel AND individuals may exist at the intersection of multiple marginalized identities.

[medusa-is-a-terf]

„Trans folks“ crossed our boundaries, if you look how this conflict started, it goes back to trans women claiming to be women but acting like toxic abusive men.

Also I don’t live in the us and your stupid country can die. I think I don’t need to explain that radical feminists wouldn’t vote for an alleged rapist. If we would, we could also just be your allies again, wirhout any remorse but we aren‘t.

If you think this made an impact, congratulations, your movement fueled fascism and you are to self centered to every realize that you are in fact the problem, not women who don’t want you in their safe spaces.

But for real, I hope the US collapses and the world will be free from your toxic „social“ movements. Your country puts women in prison for abortion after rape and if she sues her rapist, he will be with her in prison because je can use selfID. Your ideology gives chauvinists the opportunity to call themselves „pro women“ because they know what a woman is, while every liberal male anti feminist just needs to call himself „woman“ and suddenly he is also „pro women“. Even if he is an alleged rapist or pedo. And if a woman complains about it, she‘s treated like shit, but yeah, we „invented“ the term terf (who cares) and that‘s why it’s okay to use it as a slur. A slur for women who have boundaries or assert boundaries. A potential slur for victims of rape and abuse. But the men who do this to us aren‘t our enemies?

At this point every sane woman in your country is a terf, not only the bunch of white women who voted trump. A lot of radfems actually voted harris despite her doing nothing against self id.

Why should radfems vote for a party that makes it so easy for women to be imprisoned for nothing, while male prisoners can identify as women and terrorise full cell blocks in women‘s prisons?

garden variety conservative transphobia is going to get worse but radical feminism is also going to get worse. if youre a cis women terfs are going to try to recruit you and make you believe that the reason your rights are at stake is because of trans people. they're going to tell you that all men are your violent oppressors and they're going to include trans women in that category. they're gonna tell you about women who are gender traitors and joined the enemy and they're going to point to trans men. don't believe them. trans people are not your enemy, we have no power over you, and we desperately need your support and your solidarity.

be aware of radfem pipelines and dog whistles too. be skeptical of anyone that talks about the divine feminine or correlates birthing, menstruating, or female reproductive organs with womanhood. be especially skeptical of people who use those biological things as reasons to why women are more spiritual, or more in tune with nature, or just that they're better than men (read: anyone they decide is a man)

radical feminism is an expected reactionary outcome from cis women who are being oppressed by conservatives, especially when all they practice is ciscentric, liberal, white feminism. they feel the need to be radicalized but don't have the experience and information to pinpoint the true source of their suffering. trans people are not your enemy, AMAB people are not your enemy, anyone who identifies as a man is not your enemy. we're all being crushed under the same stone

[agrarianradfem]

Heard that Simone De buvoir was a pedophile from a conservative. Is that true? Because if it is, then radfems need to stop quoting he and any other claimed feminists that may have engaged in this behavior. It makes the feminist movement look less credible. Especially if someone responds with "separate art from the artist" It's like avioding accountability.

The short answer is yes, Simone signed the letter alongside many French intellectuals calling for the abolition of French age of consent laws. She also pimped young women or girls to her lover (what age they were isn’t known to me in the top of my head but they were younger than her).

The long answer is De Beauvoir, like many women, committed atrocities against women and children in order to please a man. For De Beauvoir, the man who ruled her life was John Paul Sartre, a definite creep who used Simone her entire life from their meeting in 1929 until his death. Even in death she couldn’t let him go. Sartre signed the letter. De Beauvoir read and edited all his work. It is impossible to tease apart what she did for him in order to try to please a philanderer and creep, and what she would have done had she never succumbed to him or even met him. But how many women do we know who are intellectually or personally hamstrung by their male partners? A great, great many. And that itself is evidence of how deep women’s oppression goes.

Her intellectual achievement in The Second Sex is important! But she, like Dworkin and Sanger and other feminists from any era, have beliefs or practices we rightly decry now and decried then. No one is defending her signing the letter! Literally no radical feminist is defending it.

If women only wait for the most morally and culturally pure women to quote and read and engage and debate then we aren’t left with much. I’m positive that you have some facets to yourself or your life that would not hold up to severe scrutiny, and I certainly wouldn’t.

What happens when conservatives and anti-feminists say “X feminist (always meaning woman who didn’t submit to her own oppression) is a pedo/racist/xenophobe/etc” is not them offering constructive criticism, but attempting to discredit women who are not submitting to their own oppression. They’re bad women, not just for their bad beliefs about x or y, but that that very badness is symptomatic or causative in their assertion women should not be oppressed.

Conservatives and anti-feminists have always been home to more pedophilia, racism, and xenophobia than progressives. That same conservative might have supported Trump, the US military, cutting funding to WIC, increased nationalism, etc. Why don’t they care when it’s their beliefs?

Men and women feel completely justified supporting Foucault (who also signed the letter) and Judith Butler, who also argued that literal children are capable of consenting to sex with full grown adults.

Saying “This is a powerful quote!” and “This idea explains so much!” is not approval of all things a person thought or did in their entire life. Imagine if you wrote something profound and someone dug up that you supported the war in Iraq when you were 13, or voted for a political candidate who turned out to be a shitty person, or took money from a scholarship set up by a bad company like Coke, or dated a man who went on to rape a child, or were roommates with someone who was accused of rape, or were coworkers with a pedophile, or you voted in favor of limiting immigration, or didn’t want to defund the police, or or or or or or or. Are you sure you could hold up?

Do you throw out all your hormonal birth control because of Sanger? If you don’t, then you already know that some work by women against women’s oppression is so valuable that rejecting it wholesale is inconceivably stupid. What deserves criticism is criticized, and what led to those beliefs or actions is also analyzed. But the important contributions are not lost.

[radkindoffeminist]

This was a post about roe v wade in a lgbt subreddit:

A Message to TERFs: losing Roe v Wade is at least in part your fault

You see, by making your entire feminist project about not advocating for women's rights but about ruining the lives of trans women. You have divided our already besieged movement to bring equality to all women. When you have decided trans woman are such a problem that you are literally willing to ally with fundamentalists' Christians like the Heritage Foundation (who hate cis women almost as much as they hate trans people), you guarantee we will backslide.

As long as you choose to abandon any real feminist project like wage parity & decreasing actual incidents of sexual assault in pursuit of ruining the lives of trans women, in your misguided misandrist venture. Things will only get worse for women writ large. If you put the effort that you put into destroying the lives of random trans women into the ERA, we'd already have it passed by now. But instead, we are left floundering & backtracking to the world of 50 years ago.

Rule number one of misogyny:

Women are responsible for what men do.

TRAS ARE MRAS.

Yeah, let’s not blame the fact that this is something conservatives have been pushing for years and that when Trump came to power he was able to deck the Supreme Court with conservatives, getting two nominees through in record time including one being in a fucking election year which is simply not done, also being able to do this after years of blocking and denying Obama’s nominees because the American court and political system is fucking stupid. Let’s not blame the actual Supreme Court members for voting for this. Let’s instead blame the radfems, who are pro-choice and continue to fight for a woman’s right to choose. Let’s blame a whole group of feminists because some of them got into bed with a conservative Christian group even though most of us has absolutely nothing to do with their decision and those groups working together had nothing to do with the overturning of Roe vs Wade.

Because, somehow, despite Roe vs Wade having absolutely nothing to do with trans women, it’s still about trans women. They can’t leave it a moment and make it about something else for even half a second. Trans women always have to be at the centre of every feminist discussion and movement because refusing to support them means siding with everything conservatives stand for.

What next? The stripping of EPA’s power is also radfem’s fault because they spend too much on trans women and not enough on environmental regulation?

[watermelinoe]

whats your opinion on everyone saying theres enough conservative-aligned radfems that we're responsible for the overturning of roe?

the same leftists who refused to vote for hillary in 2016 because they were bernie or bust? lmao

in all seriousness, they're probably talking about wolf. and i think wolf is making the same mistakes the suffragists made. they supported the women's health protection act and opposed texas' heartbeat bill, but they take support from conservatives on the single issue of gender identity. i think that's hypocritical and will ultimately cause the same ideological corruption that happened to the suffrage movement.

but what's the rule of misogyny? "women are responsible for what men do." how is it that wolf has enough political power to stack the supreme court with conservative judges (because we all voted for trump, right?) but we still have surrogacy, prostitution, and pornography?

sorry, but the overturning of roe v wade was determined back in 2016 when the trans movement was still relatively nascent. nothing that usamerican radfems have done for the past six years, good or bad, had any impact on that inevitability.

but you know what absolutely is not helping abortion rights advocacy right now? gender neutral language and the attack on female class consciousness coming from the so-called left. "rich white women (sometimes just white women, who are of course all rich while all women of color are poor) will always have access to abortion vs uterus owners birthing bodies afabs people who can get pregnant"

here's the situation, according to liberals: men (not amabs because transwomen are women!! but yes this includes trans men, trans men have always had male privilege and transwomen have NEVER had male privilege) oppress non-men for some reason unrelated to sex (transwomen!! are!!! women!!!!!). but also uterus owners are oppressed, just, in general. NOT for being women. and NOT by amabs, because transwomen are women. but NOT by men either, because some men are uterus owners. we don't know where this oppression is coming from, but it exists, mysteriously.

but also, uterus owners are actually transmisogyny exempt, so they're oppressors, too. to be clear, sex-based oppression is NOT amabs oppressing afabs - sex-based oppression is uterus owners oppressing transwomen bc we are either cis (oppressors), or transmisogyny-exempt (oppressors) and/or trans men (oppressors). transwomen are NEVER oppressors.

so abortion rights is not a women's rights issue, because not all women have a uterus and some people with a uterus aren't women. but it's not a uterus carrier issue either. this actually affects transwomen just as much, if not more. this is really a bodily autonomy issue.

got all that? if you're gonna even THINK about talking about abortion rights, you better.