#if you are not cesare and lucrezia...do NOT love cesare and lucrezia

[borgialucrezia]

[Do you think Juan is jealous of Lucrezia’s and Cesare’s relationship?] […] I don’t think he’s jealous of them being together. I think he’s jealous of not being a part of it as well. When he forgives Cesare at the end saying how they’re brothers and wants to be together, I think that’s genuine. That’s the first time you realize what he’s always wanted. He just wants to be a part of the family and at every turn they’ve not allowed him. They’ve always pushed him away which is a great a shame..

— DAVID OAKES

Oh, the irony that is Cesare asking "Will love make him [Juan] a better man?" and being so certain that no, it will not. Yet, in reality if him and Lucrezia would've only shown Juan half the love they showed each other, it probably would've made Juan a better man. Because all he ever wanted was your affection, Cesare. That's it. He never really cared if he had the papal armies or not, he just wanted your respect. Your love. (And Lucrezia's.) But you were so busy vying for your father's affection/respect/trust and being in love with Lucrezia you didn't even care enough to notice the needs of your own brother.

[forzathunder]

"I have many fears, most of them about Lucrezia." — Cesare Borgia (The Borgias, 2011-2013) + hints of insecurity

that she adores someone that much / if she will reject his dark nature and act of love and violence as Ursula did / if he truly is not part of her desires / that she easily forgets him

[borgialucrezia]

THE BORGIA SIBLINGS + descriptions by their portrayers "I will not have this family at war with itself."

[froschli96]

you know, i always find it really funny when dudebros complain about syndicate and odyssey being too "jokey" or not "taking its characters seriously" or whatever…

like, did y'all collectively sleep through "it's-a me, mario!", "i meant besides vaginas", ezio inventing the latte, bartolomeo's... just... *gestures vaguely* entire character, etc?

like, it's fine to have preferences of course, i myself prefer a more serious and grounded tone, but these are usually the same people who tout the ezio trilogy as "peak assassin's creed", call ac1 a glorified tech demo and hate on connor for being "too serious and boring", like? make it make sense!

[moonshynecybin]

motogp athlete isekai'd into renaissance italy and forced into a marriage of convenience with lucrezia borgia's best friend

genuinely lucrezia’s only friends are her brother who she is in love with and her parents and her dad’s mistress and maybeeee micheletto on a GOOD day. so it’s marc x micheletto in this i guess. which is crazy

[dreamedfyre-a]

unfortunately i keep rewatching the borgias tidbits and being like 'how do i make this about the targaryens' and most of the time it's too easy tbh

[i-am-borgia]

Let him know that.

I fear he knows already.

[medievalandfantasymelee]

THE HOT MEDIEVAL & FANTASY MEN MELEE

SECOND ROUND: 3rd Tilt

Cesare Borgia, The Borgias (2011-2013) VS. George, The Sheriff of Nottingham, Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves (1991)

Propaganda

Cesare Borgia, The Borgias (2011-2013) Portrayed by: Francois Arnaud Defeated Opponents: - Ancelyn ap Gwalchmai [Marcus Gilbert], Doctor Who: “Battlefield” (1989) - Prince Hamlet [Laurence Olivier], Hamlet (1948)

“How do I even begin to explain Cesare Borgia? - Cesare Borgia is flawless. - He has one duchy and two cardinalates. - I hear his hair is insured for 10,000 ducates. - I hear he does Church speeches… in Spain. - His favorite painter is Pinturicchio - One time, he met Caterina Sforza in Forlì. And she told him he was pretty. - One time, he threatened to kill me… it was awesome! This man.... this man, this man. He is the complete package: a perfect case of competent kink, a ruthless bastard (ie sexy) AND he's so irredeemably fucked up you also get the "I could fix him" complex. This is the man who could had it all and yet he wasn't enough (again, sexy)... [Cont. under the cut]

George, The Sheriff of Nottingham, Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves (1991) Portrayed by: Alan Rickman Defeated Opponents: - William Wallace [Mel Gibson], Braveheart (1995) - Kili [Aiden Turner], The Hobbit Trilogy (2012-2014)

“Robin who? The Sheriff is *obviously* the star of this movie, stealing every scene as the funnest, most sneeringly evil villain you could imagine, with a luxuriant mane, a fabulous goth wardrobe, and a voice that'll send shivers down your spine.”

Additional Propaganda Under the Cut

Additional Propaganda

For Cesare Borgia:

(Excerpted from above propaganda) "He's serving cunt at ALL times. In Cardinal clothes? Serving cunt. In "civil" clothes? Serving cunt. In armor? Serving cunt. He had one of the most competent thinkers and do I say philosopher of his time (Machiavelli) *fawning* over him. Was he a tyrant? Possibly, but it's one we LOVE. The man [Machiavelli] literally BASED A BOOK on him.... (Cont. under the cut)

"He has a personal assassin of ...unmatched abilities and YET he's even better than the man himself!!! He tries to kill his own would be killer in like the pilot episode and the man was ready to swear absolute fealty to him. As would I, to be honest. As would anyone and everyone. SO much cunt is Cesare Borgia serving at all times!!!

"We love him and loathe him and love to loathe him. His father loves and hates him bc they're too similar. His brother wishes he were him (he's not) His sister doesn't see anyone else. Lucrezia... yes: the incest is fucked up. Also that's why we love it- it's so unhinged, as anything Borgia should be!!! Their relationship... perfect. She's the only one that can possibly understand him, she's the only one he truly loves. She loves him and always has - only a Borgia can truly love a Borgia amirite?

This is a man who is clearly Not Okay and you want so much for him to Be Okay but at the same time not, because it's so much more entertaining when he's not and also we love a hopeless case. I rest my case only bc I lose any trace of coherence when talking about him so I dont know what more to add.”

For the Sheriff:

“The Sheriff of Nottingham was the highlight of this subpar retelling of the adventures of Robin Hood. The film almost flopped before he entered the scene."

“He single-handedly saved that film - he oozes bad boy sex appeal”

“No, the character was not hot in personality but apparently they gave Alan Rickman total freedom with his portrayal & let him improvise & he was fucking hilarious & stole the show”

How Alan Rickman Rescued Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves with a trip to Pizza Express

[loving-family-poll]

Ultimate Incest Tournament - Round 2

Propaganda under the cut:

Cersei/Jaime:

they're literally womb-to-tomb lovers. they feel that the rest of the world is beneath them and they're the only ones that matter. the fact that they're twins is fundamental to their attraction to each other

they’re blonde they’re evil they crossdress they’re fucked-up mirrors of one another they serve cunt they’re both bisexual probably and they’re TWINS who FUCK. who said that.

"if I were a woman, I'd be Cersei."

"I'll kill [...] the whole bloody lot of them until you and I are the only people left in this world."

"I am sick of being careful. The Targaryens wed brother to sister, why shouldn't we do the same? Marry me, Cersei. Stand up before the realm and say it's me you want."

"'Do you have a little wife, ser?'" No, I have a sister."

Cesare/Lucrezia:

They're iconic. literally watch the first 15 minutes of the borgias and you will be convinced without a shadow of a doubt to vote for lucrezia/cesare. The intensity of the sexual tension is too much for mere mortals and I had to pause several times while watching in order to collect myself. Before watching the show I still had some deniability about being batshit insane but look at me now... writing propaganda for an incest poll on tumblr....

They literally fuck in the TV show and it's amazing. Insane obsessive love. He kills at least one of her husbands because he can't stand the idea of sharing her with a man who doesn't deserve her.

They're the children of the pope during renaissance era political machinations. Cesare is crazy when it comes to Lucrezia. He killed her ex-husband, he killed their brother who threatened Lucrezia's child, etc. He's also really sweet with her and they're really cute together. Lucrezia starts out young and naïve and thinks the world of her brother. After a horrible marriage and an ill-fated affair she gets more cunning and dangerous like Cesare. After her second husband proves to be a flop she decides the only person who can truly love her is her brother and she is right (they have sex on her wedding night). Overall, they are canon, incredibly in love with each other, and murder people yay!

his edit: https://www.tumblr.com/castratedvader/705351248093806592/all-he-needs-is-a-life-in-her-shape-and-so-he

[zalrb]

"Your husband?"

"You will my husband. Tonight."

I love how that's the line that makes Cesare give in to his sister. It's so revealing. Despite his initial resistance, Lucrezia made him crumble by offering him the chance to fulfil his most secret desire - be her husband.

I know it's obvious because there was evidence of Cesare's envy since Season 1, but that moment is so evocative.

Marriage is such a wonderfully layered and nuanced theme between Cesare and Lucrezia

because it isn't envy for me, it's that from season one, there's this deep-seated knowledge between the two of them that they're destined for unfulfilling marriages because they won't be marrying each other

and more than that, they're not able to freely feel their love or celebrate it or announce it in a holy union

So, their consummation in 3x03 with Lucrezia saying this

is like their own private version of a wedding for themselves for just the night where they do feel freely and celebrate and announce even if it's just to one another, and it's such a great parallel with Lucrezia's wedding in 1x04 where Cesare effectively does the groom carry

and brings her to the 'marriage bed'

but seeks to prevent consummation for the night in an effort to protect her innocence and her happiness and in 3x04 Lucrezia refrains from going to her marriage bed to seek true happiness with Cesare

[wulfhalls]

I feel like a little messenger with a bell in medieval times coming to bring you a message. I was talking to my mom about Dune (the book) and I was telling her how so far Lady Jessica is my favorite character just like in the movie even though she feels entirely different (so far)

My moms response; weren’t her and Paul fucking in the film?

It didn’t have really anything to do with what I said but I’m glad to know that so many people noticed the tension between the two of them and not just me.

I love this. this is like when the borgias showrunners were like. ok lets really tone down the incest here ok guys. just normal siblings behaving normally. and then the first scene they shot was lucrezia watching cesare sleep with a woman only for him to chase her around a garden immediately after and tell her that he loves her more than God. while lying on top of her. his mouth three inches from hers. that's what every pauljessica scene feels like. to me

[lucreziaces]

no no but the insanity that is showing the narcissus (you can't kiss a reflection) scene between paolo and lucrezia which I'd argue is lucrezia seeing a reflection of her brother in paolo (because he'd taken care of the sforza problem at least temporarily) back to back with cesare convincing a hesitant ursula to sleep with him by telling her she might have both his heart and body at her mercy when he really (perhaps unconsciously) means she's a surrogate for lucrezia and then cutting to lucrezia with her skirts pulled up under paolo asking if a good thing can come from a bad thing and then flipping him over, so it ends with her on top and once again it cuts back to cesare and ursula, also having sex with cesare in the dominate position. LIKE REFLECTIONS OF EACH OTHER.

[emiliosandozsequence]

https://www.tumblr.com/emiliosandozsequence/758495654643482624?source=share

In this post it's almost like Juan bears a very very slight resemblance to Lucrezia in the first two gifs. I don't know it just gives me compelling Cesare/Juan thoughts, with Juan always being the second option and not the first to his siblings

OH YEAH

(gifs by @lucreziahelaena)

OH YES. i see what you mean.

it reminds me so much of that quote by david oakes where he says that juan's not so much upset that cesare and lucrezia are fucking, but moreso that he's not a part of it too!!

i think also you get the vibe that cesare and lucrezia WANT juan to be a part of their lil incestuous couple too, but because he's such a little shit, he gets ousted from their group instead. which is funny to me bc cesare is also a little shit, but he also puts lucrezia and her wants and needs first, which is why she loves him so much and juan just doesn't do that; he puts what He wants first.

i love juan tho. in my dreams, he and cesare and lucrezia all are involved and having a good time the dreamers style.

[borgialucrezia]

THE BORGIA BROTHERS + putting the family's interest above their sister's concerns

"Everything I do is for the family."

[hello-nichya-here]

Do you think Juan was in love with Lucrezia too and that's why Cesare hated him?

When I first watched the show, that was the furthest thing from my mind, mostly because Juan annoyed me to no end, but after seeing an interview in which the actor said he always felt his character was upset that he couldn't join Cesare and Lucrezia, I paid more attention to him on my rewatches - mainly to Juan's pattern of trying to murder the men his sisters falls in love with.

Because of that, yes, I think Juan, whether he knew it or not, was likely interested in sleeping with Lucrezia, but he was not in love with her - at least not in the same way Cesare was.

It's no coincidence that Cesare humiliated and killed Lucrezia's abusive husband as revenge for raping her, while Juan didn't do shit about it. That Juan threatened Lucrezia's son, while Cesare was fighting for her right keep him around after remarrying. That her first two love interests died by Juan's hand, while Cesare tried to save them and even hesitated to kill her second husband (until he started posing a threat by making it clear he'd snitch on them about the incest) because "I would not harm that which my sister loves."

Both relationships can be summarised by Lucrezia's line of "Only a Borgia can truly a Borgia." For her and Cesare that means "As family, we understand and care for each other in a way no one else could, we have to stick together", while for Juan it means "Everyone else is inferior to us."

Juan has one hell of big ego and is constantly trying to seem more competent than he actually is - to the point that he doesn't want to marry A KING'S DAUGHTER because she's illegitimate, even though he couldn't stop fucking her, even after she married the youngest Borgia (and was then written out of existence with him).

He literally corrects a prostitute who called him "The Pope's bastard" by saying he is the Pope's SON. And when he acts with disgusted towards Lucrezia's child for being illegitimate, he dismisses her point about him being a major hypocrite by reminding her "I'm a BORGIA bastard."

Juan's family is important and he's well aware of it - he uses it as sword and shield for everything. It would not surprise me if he either became interested in Lucrezia because she's the one woman that isn't "lesser" or at least uses "Well, I'm a Borgia" to avoid any guilt he could feel over his attraction towards her.

Now, don't get me wrong, he DOES have that strong feeling of belonging, understanding and family as well - but he has it towards RODRIGO, and to a lesser extent, Cesare himself.

He looks genuinely afraid and devastated at the rumor that either him or Cesare isn't actually a product of their mother's affair with Rodrigo, but rather the legitimate child she had with her actual husband (again, that's despite the fact that Juan has a complex about being a bastard, which says a lot), he clearly wants his father's approval, and his death happens after he tried to give CESARE a way to get rid of all his pain through drugs.

But while he can show affection towards Lucrezia sometimes, he doesn't show the same reverence and respect (however grudging, like with Cesare). I think that happens for a few reasons:

1 - Misogyny. Juan was always very aggressive in any sexual situation, and we see that he is not at all above full on assaulting a woman to deal with his anger - hell, he rapes an innocent girl that just happened to walk past him because he's mad at a different woman for humiliating him, and since said woman is not around, he just grabs the first vulnerable peson he sees.

Lucrezia might be spared of that because she's family, but you can't expect a violent misogyny to ever be too kind to any woman. Again, that's why he killed two of her lovers and threatened her child -Juan is being violent towards the men (or boys) around her because he can't/won't give himself permission of being violent towards her directly. Lucrezia is to him what Ursula was to Cesare, an object of affection/obsession, not an equal.

2 - Lucrezia's age. Not only is Lucrezia the youngest (at least after Joffrey was written out of existence), at the start of the show she's still 14 while both of her older brothers are already adults. Juan is not going to take a literal child seriously. It's just not gonna happen. And because the age gap is much larger, I think part of him will always see her as a little girl (even Cesare feels like that to some extent).

3 - Lucrezia's (former?) kind nature. There's a reason he looks shaken when she tries to kill him, even though he just murdered the father of her child. Juan legit did not know his sister was capable of matching his violence if he pushed her too far - and Cesare only killed him after LUCREZIA basically gave him the order/green light. This man was playing with fire and had no fucking idea. To him, she was just his naive, innocent, harmless younger sister. She's to be cherished and protected, not taken seriously like their father and brother.

Now, while I think the fact that Juan 100% knew something was going on between his siblings (he was even the first character to openly acknowledge it, for God's sake) mostly likely played a role in why he loved pissing Cesare off so much, I don't think Lucrezia was in anyway a factor on why Cesare hated Juan (again, until he started hurting her by harming the people she cared about) because:

1 - Cesare might be in denial sometimes, but he knows damn well he is his sister's soulmate. She even say's "I could never love a husband as much as I love YOU." Their brother was far less of a threat than her already mediocre lovers, whom Cesare didn't really have too many issues with - and honestly, Juan probably took NOT being seen as a legitimate rival on that regard as a deep insult.

2 - Cesare, just like Juan, desperately wants Rodrigo's approval, and his whole complex is about their father giving his brother far more freedom and praise than he ever got.

They had the Caim and Abel vibes for a LONG time.

[darklinaforever]

Little post about Lucrezia and Paolo... I don't think Lucrezia was in love with him.

She definitely liked him. How not to do it ? He was very, very handsome, and so adorable and a complete dream compared to the horrible man Lucrezia had been forced to marry ?

But as she once told Cesare, she could never love a husband (thus loving a man romantically speaking as powerfully as she already loves Cesare, since that is the romantic way she hoped for marriage).

Especially since we see from episode 1 that Lucrezia & Cesare are already in love with each other.

I think Paolo was above all a way for Lucrezia to find a little joy in the horrible situation she was in and obviously she developed a real affection as a result over time, which surely amplified when he was became the father of her child, but nothing to do with true love for me anyway.

As for the fact that she said and acted as if she wanted to die when Paolo died, I think it was mainly due to the fact that she felt deeply guilty, since she knew very well that he died because of Juan because she invited Paolo to come see her and their son.

Also when you think about it, Lucrezia was never really upset about leaving Paolo before finding him, except for the scene of the baby in his cradle being watched by Lucrezia and Cesere, who seems jealous of the interest Lucrezia gives to another man, located specifically in the episode where Paolo makes his return, as if to simply remind us of the existence of the character.

And what's more, it seems to me that it's actually Cesare directly who brings up the subject of the baby's father and not Lucrezia.

Tell me what you think of it.