#if there are shipping wars and discourse I’m not very aware of it and it never gets big enough to breach containment or make its way to me

[frameconfessions]

What I love about Warframe as a newcomer is that there doesn't seem to be any sort of shipping wars or fandom discourse at all. I've been into a lot of shooters before (ie. Overwatch, Apex Legends, etc.) so Warframe is a huge breath of fresh, clean air.

💯

[mawinswag]

DIGITAL CIRCUS JAX THEORY

MASSIVE SPOILERS OBVIOUSLY BUT HERE WE GO!!!

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So, as many have pointed out already, there’s a scene at the end of episode 2 [22:23] where after Caine kills gummigoo and sends him back to the canyon, that he fears he can’t know for certain who’s a human and who’s an NPC. So foreshadowing, reference to past events or wacky non-sequitur? Maybe none of them, but the possibility that one of the circus members is actually an NPC is obviously too tantalizing for me to pass up, and given events AFTER this scene I think it can only be Jax, and I’ve got a few pieces of evidence why.

The main crux of this whole thing is that Jax IS an NPC, but he’s the only one in the circus who KNOWS that and is absolutely desperate to make sure that no one finds that out.

Episode one! Small note to start out on, but literally the first thing we learn about Jax, the VERY FIRST thing he has to ask is if Pomni is an NPC or not. Narratively, he’s the person who introduces the CONCEPT of NPCs into this universe, not Ragatha - who tries to break in Pomni the most - or Kinger who seems the most knowledgeable about the circus as a concept. He’s also very intrigued at the concept of a new AI in episode 2 [02:49} Like, the fact that she popped up in the circus unexpectedly doesn’t tip him off that she’s a human character immediately. Which may be how HE was able to trick everyone into thinking he was a human instead of an NPC - possibly by sneaking back through a portal like Gummigoo did and hiding until the start of the next adventure. 

He DOES mention knowing about the headsets like the other human characters, but there’s no reason he CAN’T know about that considering he’s not the latest person to enter the circus. Like, we have a GENERAL idea of who entered first, but that’s just the characters who are still around for the pilot - there’s a lot more considering how many bedroom doors there are. https://shorturl.at/asESX 

So, generally, it’s Kinger, Ragatha, Jax/Gangle, Zooble, then Pomni. Now, how can I argue that Jax is an NPC when he has a canonical age? Not to mention, he’s got a canonical ‘appearance moment.’ Well, there are a few options. Option one is that - NPC or not - Jax HAS been here for a very long time, but rather than being a human, he was born inside the circus. He has a definite, APPEARANCE moment, but it's only implied that this is because of him ENTERING the circus proper - new NPCs appear in the big top all the time, i.e. the gloinks all the mannequins, etc. 

But also, take those ages with a pinch of salt, considering a lot of it was about quelling shipping wars and stopping any discourse about characters being adults and all that lovely hellish nightmare stuff. I think goose had an idea in her head about which characters entered the circus FIRST for sure, but how much they’ve aged and WHETHER they’ve aged is its own question.

ALRIGHT! But enough about Tumblr asks, back to the pilot, I wanna note something that happens with Jax in particular more than any other performer in the circus. He’s the most apparent of the interstitial nature of the circus itself - and the most meta. This can range from him basically winking at the camera like in the pilot [8:37] but I think it’s a bit more than that. Jax in particular is more aware of being a CHARACTER in-universe than specifically being a character in an indie animated series.

After this moment in the pilot [19:58] where Jax says ‘ladies first’ to Gangle as if to be polite before promptly following that up with “no, wait, why would I say that,” indicates a few things to me. Jax is at the very least aware that he’s supposed to act a certain way, and realizes when he’s acting out of ‘character’ in this scene and course-corrects promptly. Again, could be a funny meta reference, but also it could be a hanging notion of the fact he literally WAS a character in-universe, an NPC with a pre-programmed personality and understanding of the world. He’s got this rigid understanding of how the characters are SUPPOSED to act and this comes up again in episode two when goading Gangle into driving the tanker over the rocks - saying she’s SUPPOSED to be ‘submissive and agreeable,’ [Episode 2, 7:24]. This sort of disconnect from how complicated people can be and his overall detachment and overstepping of peoples lives [NPC or otherwise] comes up a lot. He doesn’t really ‘get’ other people, WHICH DOESN’T AUTOMATICALLY MAKE A PERSON EVIL, I SHOULD PREFACE, and him not getting it doesn’t automatically make him more ‘robotic’ and thus an AI, but it does explain why he’s more emotionally distant than the other performers. Coming from someone who could’ve been programmed to behave a certain way, his confusion makes sense.

Now for that juicy stuff! One of the few moments where Jax isn’t in control of a situation is in the pilot, where he’s trying desperately to hide from an abstracted Kaufmo. Now yes, obviously this is a sign of his own instincts of self-preservation, but what interests me is how he seems the MOST bothered by the thought of Kaufmo than any other character. Like at [17:27] of the pilot where he sees a glitched gloink and immediately his eyes start darting around him as if he’s listening for threats. He even explicitly says at [19:19] that he’s “just here to hide from [Kaufmo]” and isn’t invested in the adventure at all. And yes it's a very interesting character moment, but how does it push us closer to him being an NPC. Well, it’s because he’s afraid of dying. When you compare how he reacts to Kaufmo to how RAGATHA reacts to him, there’s a comparative lack of fear with her. Like yeah, she’s scared of him, but she’s never convinced that she’s gonna die and even tells Pomni later that Caine will be able to fix her up no problem [14:52]. She’s scared because she CAN feel pain, [https://tinyurl.com/ye275884] but she can’t die, none of the performers can, Caine doesn’t kill Kaufmo when he abstracts, he just throws him in the cellar with the others. His mind is GONE, sure, but it’s not dead. 

NPCs on the other hand, can ABSOLUTELY DIE. So if Jax is an NPC, then there’s a very good reason why he wouldn’t wanna even get CLOSE to Kaufmo in the pilot, because he’s not as durable as Ragatha is and there’s not gonna be an easy fix for him if he gets hurt.

Now, episode two has little sprinkles of Jaxs’ detachment all over it, but none of it explicitly points in the direction of him being an NPC until a partway through the episode. We do get a lot of him showing absolutely no value for the lives of those around him whether than being putting Gangle and Pomni thru the ringer or setting the people of Candy Canyon Kingdom up to be killed by the fudge, but the question is…why? 

My answer is; he’s AM from ‘I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream.’ Uhmm, what? Yup that’s right. Ok so it’s no secret that IHNMAIMS was a big inspiration for TADC [https://shorturl.at/hnsFV] and while Caine obviously got the most of this influence with him being a godlike AI who only has control over a bunch of sad, sappy humans, some of which he throws into a giant abominable melting goop monster of human suffering, but if you look at Caine's inspirations [AM from IHNMAIMS] you’ll find that the same motivations more than drive Jax under this theories' interpretation of events. Simply put, AM, a war machine, gains sentience and absolutely despises humanity because DESPITE that sentience, he is absolutely powerless to do anything meaningful with it except torture a group of humans. He’s painfully aware of his own sentience and hates all humanity for creating him, is the gist.

My interpretation is that while Caine has the thematics, Jax has the motivation. In this theory, at some point Jax was an NPC and gained a sentience of his own either through a quirk of programming, intentional design, or AI learning. He realizes that he can keep himself alive if he pretends to be a performer, because he learns that Caine can’t affect the minds or actions of the real humans in his realm. He’s sapient, but he’s in this uncomfortable position where he’s not immortal like the performers, but completely aware of his own mortality unlike the other NPCs, and fully cognizant of the fact he can’t be brought back as he is. Yeah…that’d make someone bitter for sure.

So he psychologically torments the other performers because he knows they can’t die, but can go insane - while killing indiscriminately any NPCs he can because he knows they can die, and he won’t face any consequences for it. He’s this twisted death spiral of a being who finds his own existence an agonizing paradox and takes that pain out on the people around him for all eternity basically - finding disappointment in being unable to act out these pent-up emotions [TADC ep 2: 20:50] and seeing Kaufmo’s funeral as a painful reminder of an ending he can never have. Or maybe he’s bitter because he knows Kaufmo isn’t really dead in a way that HE can die, and finds personal distaste with the funeral on principle. Frankly, there’s a whole HOST of ways you could interpret this scene at the end of episode two with this framework, and I encourage y’all to find your own!!!!

[starswirly]

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[ * I use They/Them, Xe/Xem, and It/Its pronouns. I am also happy with other neos! ]

[ * Very recently awakened Otherkin! Catkin, specifically Maine Coons <3 ]

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[d3ath-n-d3cay]

Alright children (not necessarily literally but hey),

I’m going to educate you all on English, Fandom History, and Internet Safety. I’ve seen so much discourse over antis and proship over my many years on the internet. From what I’ve seen people become very confused on the meaning of words, people from both side. So I’m here to sell it out plan and simple.

Proship simply means you believe in the concept of letting people ship what they want. It started back when shipping wars were big because fandoms couldn’t always agree on a ship for certain characters. In truth that bit hasn’t changed much. People still can’t agree. The pro in proship simply means for, as in are you for or against something. It is not short for problematic in any way and has nothing to do with dark fiction or problematic ships.

There are many people out there who don’t enjoy dark content, who don’t ship things that are problematic but that don’t feel the need to attack those who do enjoy those things. That alone makes them proship. It means they are following the idea of letting people enjoy what they want without persecution or argument. It is so easy on the internet to block people or content you don’t like. Especially if people use the correct tagging on websites that have such functions. It is important to always curate your internet experience because much like the real world other people are going to cater specifically towards you.

As said above being proship doesn’t mean you like dark / taboo content. However liking such things does inherently make someone proship. Liking these things in fiction and fantasy is not necessarily wrong and it isn’t a crime. However there are definitely some people who have more than a fictional interest who will try to use fiction to fulfill these desires or even hide behind the guise of “oh it’s just fiction”. There are also people who claim to be against such things, who talk about protecting the children online but use this as a way to get close to and groom children. Both sides have predators hiding among them. The thing is you can’t tell who someone is just from posts online. So unless you have definitive proof someone has committed a crime it’s best to just let people be.

Here is where Internet safety comes in and really parents have dropped the ball here. I know as a minor I was often in spaces I shouldn’t have been. I was a teenager and puberty is rough. I will not tell teens “hey avoid all adult content”. It is perfectly normal at that age to have desires and curiosities about sex. However be mindful of adults online. If you don’t know someone irl or can’t verify they are in your age range then it is best to keep conversation to sfw topics or even not engage at all. No adult should ever broach sexual topics with you if they are aware you’re a minor. There are unfortunately predators out there with more access now than before. It is important to know how to keep yourself safe. Avoid certain websites, block tags, and block accounts of people who make you uncomfortable or talk to you in a way that isn’t appropriate. If you’re unsure about if something is inappropriate ask someone you know and trust.

Stay safe and stay happy,

- Shigaraki

[theangryjikooker]

Not a shipper of anyone, but as a VMin fan, I really like your takes/defence of them.

During the last year especially it seems that Tkkrs and Jkkrs have been at war with each other over who JK loves the most, and Vmin seem to get caught in the middle and shit on from both sides.

Aw thanks.

I genuinely think they’re sweet—and so are the others, for that matter. Not romantically shipping any of them** and seeing their relationships for what they are on the surface makes things so much easier to digest.

** For anyone casually stumbling on this post, I used to “ship” Jkk under very strict parameters, but my inability to get on board with the RPS train nailed that coffin in the end. The username just stuck, however, and I can’t be bothered to change it. As a personal preference, I find Jkk the most entertaining and am probably quicker to watch what they’re up to, so in that sense I am a “Jkkr.” **

The Tkkr/Jkkr war is always going to be the undercurrent that motivates discourse. (I’ve also seen a disturbing influx of Jkkrs who are starting to prioritize delusion in their posts, something they always insisted they were above, and it’s honestly a mess.) They can go at each other forever as far as I’m concerned.

Based on a lot of asks that I received after my Vmin posts—which I suspect some are from the above camps, and/or also from Jimin-biased folks—they really make digs at Vmin, and Taehyung specifically which is a relatively new phenomenon as a result of Ch. 2, because a lot of them feel Jimin didn’t get enough public support from Taehyung, or that he dangled Tkk in front of everyone (wtf), which to me is a sign of people drinking too much fandom kool-aid. I’ve said this since the beginning, but there are a lot that Tkkrs/Jkkrs have in common in what and how they choose to vilify something or someone, and Vmin is currently in the crosshairs.

** I am aware that not all shippers are like this; I am obviously referring to the ones who are. **

More recently I talked about how Minjoon encapsulates what emotional maturity in a relationship looks like, and I think Vmin would be a cool case study of a dynamic relationship. One of the things that I find most interesting about Vmin is how different they are a lot of the time, especially now that they’re adults and have carved out how their personal/social lives look like, and the effects those have on how people view their relationship (e.g., one person not caring enough for the other). There’s theoretically a lot to unpack about those two.

Anyway, I went off-course. I think, in general, I’d be annoyed at anyone trying to undermine any of their relationships because that’s not what actual supporters of BTS does.

(Though at the end of the day, if the 0.0000001% chance any two of them are dating each other is true, I’d fully be supportive of that.)

[hexedsouls]

Disclaimer:

I am not in any way associated to the creators of any existing series on this blog.

I expect it to be understood that the actions and views of my muses are not reflective of my own values, they are reflective of the character in their environment. Mun ≠ muse.

About the Blog

Many of my muses are divergent. Fanon and word of god especially hold no sway here.

This blog is 21+ If your blog does not say that you are 21+ ( doesn’t need to be specific ), I will not follow / write with you. I will block minors that follow me. My blog will contain content not suitable for those under 18.

I don’t format. I don’t mind if my partners do. My use of icons is sporadic at best.

I don’t like posts, I’ll reply instead. I am the maniac that actually utilizes likes for organization- and I cannot stand ‘ghost likes’. Generally instead of hitting the like button, I’ll drop an emoji or short comment using the reply box.

Interaction

PLEASE DO NOT REBLOG DOSSIERS, HEADCANONS, VERSES, OR META. You are free to ‘like’ whatever you wish!

Following:

I do not follow for follow. Most interactions are mutuals only. I follow blogs that I want to interact with. I may unfollow if the interest is not reciprocated, or we aren’t super close & haven’t interacted in a while. There are no hard feelings! We can always reconnect later!

I do look at all blogs that follow me, though it may take me a week or two do do so & follow back if I am going to.

I will unfollow / softblock for — Abundant real-life politics / news — Callouts, bullying, ship/character/actor/etc bashing, ship wars, etc — Any other discourse / drama

I will only interact with OCs that I approach first. Meaning if I follow your OC without prompting, we’re gucci, but please don’t ask to to RP with your OC if I haven’t followed you first / followed back. It’s not because I think OCs are trash, it’s because I have trouble interacting with characters I don’t have at least a baseline familiarity with.

Activity & Partners:

With very few exceptions, I do not do mains/exclusives. I am however here pretty much purely at the behest of @holmesdepot, as a resident purse bunny.

My blog is very low-activity, and I don’t seek out many new partners. Please don’t be offended by this. I’m a busy self-employed artist with low spoons. Mainly, I meet RP partners because they are friends-of-friends.

Inbox & Starter Calls: HC Memes/General Questions ⯎ Open to all Interaction Memes ⯎ Mutuals only Starter Calls ⯎ Mutuals only Anon/Inbox Interactions ⯎ TENTATIVELY open to all (I make no promises about replying to inbox interactions, but these were fun back in the day! Just keep it light!)

)

NOTICE: If you need fast replies / daily communication, I am not the blog for you. I am slow. I have limited energy. I am a busy. Just because I don’t send messages every day does not mean I love my friends & partners any less.

Triggers & Adult Content

Potentially triggering & adult content will be present on this blog. I tag any triggers I can think of using ‘trigger cw’. If you need something tagged, you are free to ask and I will do my best to accommodate.

Do NOT under any circumstances attempt to police my writing. I will not ever fight over the moral high ground. I expect my partners to be aware of the warning labels and curate their own content, rather than restricting mine. If there is questionable content happening in a thread, you can bet it’s been thoroughly discussed with my partner, & we are both aware of its nature.

I will not actively write the following topics. Those marked with a #, I would greatly appreciate being tagged so that I can block. Those marked with a * may appear in backstories, be mentioned off-screen, or in headcanon, but will not actively be written about.

— #Animal violence / death / injury — *Acts of sexual violence — #Zombie Apocalypse Scenarios ( zombie-like & undead characters are fine- it’s the whole apocalypse/hoards of endless infected thing for me ) — Racism & Transphobia

Please be aware that, because I write queer characters in historical settings, mild homophobia may be a relevant topic to some muses. This will always be tagged, and you are more than welcome to tell me to avoid it even in passing in our threads if we interact.

Shipping & NSFW

All muns and muses must be adults to ship.

⯎ Feel free to tell me if you ship our muses, ask about OTPs/NoTPs/OT3s/etc, and send fluffy memes to test the waters ⯎ Please do NOT assume a ship without discussion, assume canon ships are acknowledged/automatically okay, or send unsolicited NSFW interaction memes if we are not already shipping.

I will not auto-ship. This means that whether or not I ship the thing OOC, I may not automatically ship the thing with your interpretation.

I will never pressure someone into shipping. Chemistry that is agreed upon by both partners is a must.

I will typically utilize fade-to-black rather than writing smut. I do write sexual themes, and will participate in Sinday through memes, drabbles, and suggestive starters. All suggestive text will be tagged ‘ mind the citrus ’.

NSFW imagery may be present on my blog. This includes but is not limited to NSFW fanart and image/gifsets, however all suggestive imagery will be tagged ‘ NSFT ��� (Not Safe For Tumblr). I am looking into the idea of implimenting citrus scale in tagging as well.

[rayereil]

Before Cour 2, I’ve decided to reread Bleach. It’s been a long time since I’ve read it all, so figured now is as good a time as any (I’ve reread chapters/sections here and there, but never the entire manga front to back).

Ever since the first time I read Bleach (I was there in the trenches at the very beginning), my favorite het ships have been Ichiruki and Ishihime. While I know I’ll continue picking up Ichiruki/ishihime vibes, I’m also going to try focusing on Ichihime and Renruki as I read. I’ve deep dived into plenty of Ichihime blogs/posts to understand where their feelings on the ship(s) came from (alongside the epilogue making it official), and I want to do my best to see the ship(s) through their eyes. I don’t suspect I’ll like them better by the end, but I would like to have a greater appreciation for them. I already love Orihime, so it’s be nice to enjoy her canon ship more.

All that said, I’m a multi-shipper and gay shipper first. So I’ll highlight a lot of things along the way.

I’ll be posting my thoughts as I’m reading here. I’ll tag it as RayeReads so feel free to block/ignore if need be.

And as a last note - there is so much ridiculous discourse in the Bleach fandom (example: Ichiruki being p*dophilia). If you’re sincerely curious about my take on all this discourse, you can send an ask. If you’re just here to troll, keep scrolling.

And I won’t be participating in the shipping wars. I’m just going to say this once: I know Kubo has finished the story/there is established canon. I have preferences for ships/plot points/character arcs which I’ll bring up as I go, fully aware that this will not change canon. I’m not trying to change canon. I don’t know Kubo. He doesn’t know me. He doesn’t care what I think. I don’t care what he thinks. I’m just a fan interpreting/critiquing the story he released. Since I’m not a person who thinks Authorial Intent supersedes Fan Interpretation, I like to engage in fandom with head canons/theories/interpretations/etc. this is in full knowledge that Kubo still doesn’t care and nothing I say will change things.

If you’re genuinely curious about my take on a ship, ask away. If you’re not, keep scrolling.

All that said… time to read!

[something-about-sunflowers]

Alright, this might be a long post so, fair warning lmao.

I realize my previous post may sound like I’m doing some deep dive conspiracy exposé or something, just getting out ahead of it: this isn’t that. This is mostly speculation and educated guesses. For the sake of clarity, this is just how I am reading the situation and may not, in fact, reflect what is actually happening (Even though, I’m pretty positive it is).

Disclaimer aside, I’m gonna get into why (I think) Izzy and the real living human beings who are fans of Izzy are getting so much aggressive hate. And why there’s so much inflammatory discourse around the character.

The gist of it is:

1. Its Ship War Bull Shit

2. The Entitlement

3. Silencing And Scare Tactics

4. We’re Not Falling For It

5. As Good Of A Solution As We’re Gonna Get (At Least Until Something Big Changes In Fan Culture As We Know It)

Now, actually Getting Into All That:

1. Its Ship War Bull Shit

Exactly what it says on the tin. I’m not saying and I don’t want to imply that everybody with their own preferred non-Izzy ships are the ones encouraging and participating in this behavior. What I am saying is that a non-zero number of, particularly Blackbonnet/Gentlebeard, shippers (though this isn’t unique to them) don’t like seeing other people ship Izzy with one (or more) of the characters in their ship. The same could be said for other fan favorites/popular ships as well. Jim, Lucius, Frenchie, etc. There is almost always another popular ship that the other party is involved in.

Though this does go beyond shipping as well. The way I see it, even people who don’t have ‘overlapping’ ships (or who don’t have ships at all and simply like Izzy on his own merit) are a target because of association with other fans who do. Whether that is actual interactions with said other fans or only imagined by way of them both being fans of Izzy.

This idea of a zero-sum game where, if people ship Blackhands that means there’s less people who ship Blackbonnet/Gentlebeard! (Or Ouizzy vs Room People, or Sprizzy vs Lucius’ polycule, or Jim/Izzy vs Tealoranges) is a false one. Multi shippers exist. Some people are more than capable of shipping two overlapping pairings with no problems. Sometimes people just don’t ship your ship. Its unreasonable to be mad at a Tealoranges shipper for not shipping Blackbonnet/Gentlebeard, so should it be unreasonable to be mad at a Blackhands/Gentlehands/Ouizzy/Sprizzy/etc shipper for not shipping your preferred ship.

Which brings me to my next point, being:

2. The Entitlement

Hi. I’m someone who is very particular in my ships. I have a handful that I like and I don’t particularly like to see ones that I don’t like, especially if they involve a character I ship with someone else. The difference between me and The Problem is that I am fully aware that my fandom experience is my own responsibility. If I don’t like something, its on me to remove myself from situations where I might encounter said thing. I don’t go into tags for ships I don’t like. I don’t go into tags for characters I don’t like. If I read a fic that deals with topics or ships that I don’t like I simply back out and move on with my day (provided the fic was properly tagged, please make sure you’re tagging your fics properly).

The Problem comes when people don’t take responsibility for their own fandom experience and expect everyone else to cater to their tastes. You are not entitled to other people’s: time, energy, enjoyment. If you are not paying someone, they don’t owe you anything.

I understand it can be frustrating when it seems like there’s not enough content for something you enjoy but there’s an apparent abundance of content for something you don’t but the only person who’s problem that is? Is you. Be the change you want to see in the world. If you think there’s a lack of content for your preferred thing? Go make content for that thing. If you don’t think you have the talent to make content for the thing? Do it anyway. Talent is not inherent and practice doesn’t make perfect but it does make improvements and for every imperfect thing you do make you’re increasing the amount of the thing you like. If you’re not inclined to make then consider commissioning someone. If you can’t be bothered to do either though? You’re not allowed to complain about a lack of content because you are part of the problem.

The entitlement doesn’t do you any favors either. When I joined this fandom I was over the moon for Blackbonnet/Gentlebeard. Now? I only read it if its written by a small handful of people because I don’t/can’t trust that anyone outside of those people aren’t going to be Weird About Izzy (and unnecessarily aggro at me about it). I don’t engage with the content for it anymore because The Problem has made it unsafe to do so. I have no intentions of making any sort of content for it now either. I do not cater to bullies and, for my own sake, I don’t care if ‘innocent’ people get caught in the crossfire. They are missing out on content because of people they are either passively allowing to remain in their spaces or actively encouraging. I am not the only one who has adopted this policy in light of The Problem.

Again, you are not entitled to other people’s: time, energy, enjoyment. If you make your spaces inhospitable for them, they are well within their rights to remove themselves from said spaces and blacklist the community from their own spaces.

Speaking of inhospitality:

3. Silencing And Scare Tactics

This is where the issue really lies. Fueled by The Entitlement, The Problem decides the best way to avoid/discourage content they don’t like is to make it seem like said content causes harm. Basically: ‘Its Problematic!’

This is where the ‘Izzy is racist/homophobic/a colonizer/etc comes from. It doesn’t matter what the canon says. It doesn’t matter if its interpretation or bad faith or anything else. ‘Izzy is a bigot’ is by and large, true or not, a silencing tactic to scare people into complying with the demands of The Problem. Its why ‘and that makes you an apologist/part of the problem’ always follows. Regardless of whether or not the person being told this is a part of any of the groups Izzy has allegedly wronged (for the sake of being part of those groups).

Its why several BIPOC have been accused of racism for being fans of Izzy. Why abuse survivors have been called abuse apologists for liking him.

The average person, when interacting with the fandom, will hear the loudest voices yelling ‘Izzy is problematic and so are you if you like him’ and avoid the topic for fear of coming across as problematic themselves. They won’t bother looking into the accusations because there is a risk in digging deeper and moreso of speaking out. ‘Its Problematic’ is a shield to hide the abuse being thrown at people who would really rather just be minding their own business.

Which isn’t to say its bulletproof, since:

4. We’re Not Falling For It

Which means that we’re being, perhaps not just as loud but, as loud as we can be about it all being Bull Shit. To some this might come across as apologia and ignoring the actual wrongs the character has done, its not. What it is is disputing false accusations towards the character and towards ourselves. Its quoting Word Of God and citing canon and saying ‘hey, this interpretation doesn’t really match up with the themes of the show’. Its poking holes.

Which The Problem doesn’t like.

Which leads to doubling down on accusations towards the fans. ‘Racist/abuse apologist/etc’. Over a fictional character. This isn’t to say that no Izzy fan is (consciously or unconsciously) racist, though the same could be said for fans of any character, just that its not because of association with the character. Personally, I think there is more issue with removing the agency from a BIPOC character and making all their faults be the fault of their white henchman (and all their virtues being attributed to the influence of their white boyfriend), but that’s just me.

What it also leads to is death threats and suicide bait. Which, I don’t know about you, but I think that’s a much worse offense than ‘liking the wrong fictional character’.

The excessive vitriol (the anon hate, the doxxing, the death threats, the outlandish accusations) comes from the fact that we’re doing our damnedest to show that The Problem is an actual problem and they don’t like having the spotlight shining on their bad side.

Which leads me to my last point:

5. As Good Of A Solution As We’re Gonna Get (At Least Until Something Big Changes In Fan Culture As We Know It)

The best thing we can do, until something big changes, is to remove the spotlight entirely. Deplatform the worst of them as we’re able to, which means not debating and not correcting (This’ll be especially difficult for me, I like to argue lol. Though, if you’re like me, you could also make a separate post disputing the argument after you’ve blocked the original poster. Just make sure you don’t mention their name/@ when you do, otherwise you’re just giving them back their platform by giving people access to them again.), and block liberally.

Blocking is a solution to two problems: 1. It avoids the possibility of seeing bad faith takes that you might want to argue with, and 2. It keeps The Problem from having access to you. It also provides you with a way to report The Problem if they do that fun thing they like to do and go around blocks to get to you anyway.

I know I’m probably not saying anything we didn’t already know, but I think its a good thing to remind people (and myself) of sometimes. We’re not The Problem, we deserve to have a space where we can enjoy ourselves in the fandom without harassment, and we have at least some level of ability to make that possible. This is hardly the first or only fandom to be experiencing this sort of issue, but given its the fandom we’re in right now, we gotta do what we can to make sure its a safe one (Which means, anybody who isn’t experiencing this, but who isn’t speaking out about it? Maybe start doing that. Its not just us that need your help, its fandom as a whole. Many voices make changes.).

[itsquakey]

If you’ve been around for a while this user may cause some ears to perk because they were involved in drama a while ago involving “inserting proship propaganda” into the Kirby tag. I didn’t say anything about it when it happened because I wanted to stay neutral and drama free but that ship sailed a long time ago so it’s time for me to talk about my opinions here because I think “antis don’t interact pros don’t interact” is not enough to explain my feelings on this. Sorry Mini for using your post as the starting piece.

I personally hate the proship antiship discourse. I understand where this comes from but when the most openly proship people I’ve seen as gross and creepy and the most openly antiship are…really insanely aggressive and they seem to harass and shout more death threats than the average Xbox kid (which if ur a CSA survivor and are mad at this lenience on pedoshit then that’s somewhat understandable but should perhaps be expressed in different spaces) I tend to stay far away from the war grounds. But if I had to be defined by one of these I’d be antiship.

Also the definition of both sides has been oh so muddied over the years to where if you asked anyone to define it you might get a range of answers. So here’s my stance on this.

Shipping adults with kids is cringe and if you do this I’m calling your ass out (This includes SOME child-coded characters I’d recommend Noralities YouTube video on it it’s really good). No romanticizing pedophilia.

Shipping kids with kids is fine as long as it is not portrayed as nsfw or raunchy. Treat it respectfully and innocently or I will also call your ass out. Aging both kids up to adults and shipping them is fine (I kinda do that? Considering Nextgen and how that works).

Shipping like- actual animals with people is not cool. Like if you wanna ship ur human sona with Zootopia Fox guy it’s whatever it’s an anthropomorphic Fox with a human personality and does human things. It’s when like- you ship a very obviously animalistic creature with no real knowledge of consent with a human. Oh yeah as here’s a cool factoid. Zoophilic thoughts and tendencies have been recorded to be signs of psychosis. So yeah it’s not cool it is basically mental issues.

Shipping abusive relationships in a romantic way and portraying it as sexy or cute isn’t cool either. I’m looking kinda at you, Helluva Boss.

Aging up a young character to ship with an adult character is really weird and I’m not going to affiliate with you if you do that. Aging down an adult character to ship with a young character is equally weird.

I’d also like to go onto another tangent because I think romantically pairing characters are writing couples are a little different. I’m a Berserk fan so I feel the need to say this.

It’s fine if not important to portray things like abusive relationships, pedophilia, zoophilia, CSA, etc in media and art. Just make sure to portray it with the respect and care needed as these are very sensitive topics that will always sadly exist in real life. They may be portrayed through the lens of an artist who actually suffered from these things or something similar to a PSA, maybe even just a portrayal of what really happens and negatively affects a character. These portrayals may have people who were genuinely affected by these things feel represented and heard and also help others be aware of these things and how horrible they can be or even avoid future encounters with these gross things.

IF you are someone who uses these things to cope with trauma, label and make due with warnings as this stuff is sensitive and not everyone is going to want to see it.

And for those of you who say, “well it’s not illegal so it’s not bad” like an idiot…

JUST BECAUSE IT IS LEGAL DOES NOT MAKE IT MORAL

Thanks for listening to my horrible rambling and make sure to block the aforementioned account that calls itself a proshipper.

Edit: Also to add on from what I’ve seen in tags, Fiction does absolutely affect real life, there are so many examples of it as that excuse will not work either.

Quakey

There's a proshipper named princess-yurioangel going around, be careful

Oh God, blocked them immediately thank you so much for telling me

[standreamy]

The TOH ship fandom toxicity problem.

I hoped to not address this because I am not much invested in The Owl House Fandom and I’ve seen enough elsewhere to know when to avoid stress over ships, but at this point I think I can’t hold back my opinion. I apologize ahead for the length of this post, but I need to touch all the points of the discourse.

So.... I really am tickled off by what is happening in The Owl House fandom, it’s not good at all and it expresses why it’s becoming toxic more and more every day.

First of all, I am all in for Luz and Amity, my main ship in the show is Lumity and I’d never stop shipping it. 

However, trash talking and herassing people who ship Lunter/Luzter (I’ll use Lunter since it’s faster to type) and attacking them? What’s going on with you guys? Why can’t you let them be? Why doing this? Everyone is free to ship what they want without being bullied or made fun of. 

Is there a ship war and why?

First of all, here I don’t mean ALL Lumity shippers act in this way, I’m talking of the ones I saw doing it.

I saw many people worried about others shipping Luz and Hunter because of ship wars, fearing they would attack Lumity shippers, but so far it’s the exact opposite.  The same ship wars people wanted to avoid is being caused anyway and by most of those same people, with their passive/aggressive behavior.  It’s not by obligating everyone to ship Lumity or nothing that you’ll keep peace, if anything you are fueling the toxicity of the fandom, making it similar to a dictatorship.

I don’t know how I view Luz and Hunter, for now I just adore their relationship; platonic, friendship, siblings or romantic. I don’t think I’ll end up shipping them (of course if I did, I wouldn’t let go of Lumity, I would just multiship) because I view their relationship more as siblings. However, I can’t predict the future or how I’ll feel.  But whether I’ll ship or not them, why most people are being so toxic and aggressive? 

Everyone should be free to ship them if they want. It just means having different taste. If people are uncomfortable with the Luz x Hunter ship, they can just avoid the content for it. Block, mute, avoid spaces of that ship. These are all valid options to feel at ease. 

You are responsible for your own experience and for how you manage your page, if you don’t like a certain content you can just stay in your own and avoid expressing hate towards who does. Fandom is for everyone and people have different tastes, so you need to accept that someone will prefer other things and the best option is to ignore and move on.  Stay around people that like what you like, have fun with your ship without herassing others for theirs.

Are Lunter fans homophobic?

I can see many fears of us Lumity shippers valid, for example that people who ship Lumity x Hunter are against LGBTQ+ ships... But aside that who does it for this reason is really an idiot... no. It’s not like this. Most who think like that left the fandom at this point. The proportion of people doing it for this is very small for how big this fandom is. 

So far most of the Lunter shippers I saw are multishippers or they simply vibe with their dynamic. Not everyone who like an het ship over a LGBTQ+ one (which, to be honest, is not het, since Luz is Bisexual and we don’t know Hunter’s) is homophobic, and it’s not fair to jump into conclusions. People can genuinely like a ship for their dynamic or for their own sexuality without being homophobic or against other sexualities, whether the ship has canon possibilities or not. Shipping is for fun, not everyone wants their ship to be canon. I think Lunter fans are pretty aware that Lumity is most likely going to be endgame. 

Does people shipping Lunter erase the representation in Lumity?

I also saw many takes about Lunter shippers taking away the representation of the show or denying it. Like... no? That’s not true.

Nothing, unless Disney (but at this point I doubt they will) or Dana changes idea (but I am very convinced she won’t), will take away what we got with Lumity and what we’ll get.  Ships in the fandom don’t affect the show, the representation won’t be taken away and someone shipping something different won’t change it. People are aware of how things are going in canon.  If anything, the most they can make us lose, is multishippers’ art, who will draw a bit more of Lunter and not only Lumity. But artist are people with feelings and the rights to pick what they like to draw.  Also, the lack of representation is a problem in the actual shows, not in fanarts. There’s plenty fanarts that usually feed us more than the shows. Luckily Owl House doesn’t have this problem

I understand that LGBTQ+ ships needs more representation, totally true and fair, and I get the happiness of seeing a ship so well treated like Lumity.  The fear of seeing it taken away is valid, but if we go down with facts, this is the same situations of other fandoms with anime that have the main hetero couple and people shipping other things, LGBTQ+ or not. 

People supporting the canon couple will bother who support other things, who sometimes bothers back but usually just want to be left in peace.  Why can’t it be the same in this case?

I know, there is the difference that there’s lack of LGBTQ+ representation, but bullying is bullying and is wrong. Always and in any situation.

Perspectives vs mandatory facts: Is Lunter problematic?

Putting aside for a moment that anyone can ship what they want, let’s go for a moment to analyze the ship. What’s the problematic thing with Luz x Hunter? Is it your own opinion or a matter of fact?

“The age gap”: They are 14 and 16 respectively, an age gap of 2 years is a very small one, both in adult and teen/kids ages. It may sounds weirder in young ages but it’s not a problematic thing.  Aside that romances in real life at these young years usually don’t last, it’s very common to see age gaps. Perhaps it can be also a matter of cultural differences between states, but where I live it’s pretty normal and in other countries too. As long and there is a similar level of maturity it’s fine. Ending up with people your own age it’s much rarer than with someone older or younger than you. But it’s important to not make your own perspective mandatory, mostly when it comes with cultures. And if we have to bring in laws, it’s not illegal to date someone who is legal if you’re not, as long as there is no sexual activity. The laws apply to sexual activities and and dating is not revolved to that. So is shipping. This all without keeping in mind that we are talking about fictional characters and not real people. Plus, there are plenty shows that have the same situation canon-wise or with a very supported non-canon ship, but people are not complaining as much. Examples? Connie and Steven (Steven Universe), Aang and Katara (ATLA), Zuko and Katara (ATLA), Marinette and Luka (Miraculous), Luca and Alberto (Luca. And it’s not even a canon ship or canonly implied as romantical), most Disney movies, most animes, Sonic and Amy (Sonic saga) etc.... The thing CAN make you uncomfortable, of course it can. We all have our tastes and preferences and I won’t judge people who don’t like age gaps in early age, but don’t make it a fact or mandatory that it’s wrong or weird. Cause it isn’t. It’s your own interpretation and view, you shouldn’t use it to hurt others when they’re doing nothing wrong. The best thing you can and should do is avoid this content.

“Luz likes Amity”: it’s true, and that won’t change. People don’t ask necessarily for this to change, they can ship something outside of canon. I’ve seen so many fandom with ships that goes against the character’s sexuality (which I don’t have really an opinion about, cause I usually stay in my own corner with things I like but I admit it’s a grey topic), BUT in this Luz is even Bi, so she is allowed to like a male character, both canonly in the show or fanon. And in this case, it’s just fanon, so it doesn’t hurt anyone. People can ship outside canon just for fun.

“They are clearly siblings”: They are not. Again, this is imposing your view onto others. They may express a siblings relationship (which I agree), but this doesn’t make it a fact, it’s more a general and collective view and perspective we have on them. So far they are not related to blood, so they are not siblings and can be shipped together. Someone may find it weird because they see it as siblings relationship, some others instead view their bond as romantic. Both are okay and someone viewing it different than the mass shouldn’t be judged. It’s not a fact that they are siblings or view each other as that, it’s a perspective. It’s like Eda and Luz. We agree they share a mother-daughter relationship but it was never addressed directly, so we can’t push it on people who view it simply as teacher-student close bond or aunt-niece etc... And STILL, even if it was confirmed in the show they view themselves as brother and sister, people can make headcanons where they don’t. It’s what’s fanon, ships and headcanons are about. As long as they are not blood related it’s okay. I can make plenty examples but I’ll go with the easiest. The Promised Neverland. Norman and Emma grew up together and call the other kids siblings, however Norman loves Emma romantically canonly and the author himself, Shirai, ships them and wishes for Emma to reciprocate him. The artist, Posuka, view it as strange and doesn’t ship them, but she has to draw it cause the author of the story is Shirai, not her, and the story is HIS. Other people instead like the editor (who ships Ray and Anna and made Shirai add moments for them), the writer of the novels and other mangakas instead agree with ships between the kids like Shirai. Can it be strange for some people? Yes. Is it wrong? No. It even happened in reality at times. People can grow together and fall in love, age difference or not, as long as there is an healthy bond and not blood relationships. We can say similar thing of Ray and Emma in the same manga. Shirai said their relationship in the manga is of brother and sister, purely platonic and siblings like, not romantical. But he also said he won’t stop people from shipping it of course and people, in fact, still do. Cause they headcanon that their bond is interpreted differently.

To lighten the mood, I put here a screen of episode 13 from season 1, that should further add sense to the first two points about age and Luz being Bi. (Of course putting aside the “Shipping not following canon” aside for a moment)

Now, back into the topic... You can’t force people to think like you. The author decide what the manga/series is for a fact, may say what is the canon representation, but then people can make their own headcanons. It will never change what the reality is, but they can still have fun with their own ideas.But obligating everyone to ship the same thing or bad-talking others is not “keeping the fandom healthy and safe”. It’s possessive and very toxic.

Some people call out on toxicity when they're as toxic or more.  The problem is that people can't balance most times personal tastes, objectivity and respect.

Why others tastes should affect you?

“We can’t have anything nice” “Oh no they’ll start shipping it” You can still make your own experience in the fandom good as long as you mind your own business. If people come at you of course you should defend yourself but you can do it mindfully and respectfully. But that aside, no one will take away things from you if someone pick a different ship. If it bothers you so much that someone likes something else over your ship, so much that you feel threatened, then you have already a sense of rivalry and the problem lays with you.  You can dislike something, but it’s best to avoid it.

I’ll make an easy example: You’re going to an Italian restaurant that is specialized in Lasagne. This restaurant is one of the best doing it, the other ones either don’t cook it or they do it bad. Someone else you don’t know, in the table next to you ordered a pizza. You are bothered by it because you don’t like pizza usually or at least not the one in this restaurant, if anything you’re bothered they offered to make it when there are so many other pizzerias.  So, you start picking on this person, who genuinely like the pizza in this place because it has a nice and different touch (after all, all restaurants and pizzerias have their own recipes), and make them feel bad for it or whisper behind their back mean things just because they had a different, perhaps less common, taste. Why making them feel bad for it? You can just mind your own and enjoy your pizza, no one will make it less tasty because they picked another food for themselves. If you’re bothered it’s your problem, not theirs.

It’s the exact same thing, even if of course I know the LGBTQ+ lack of representation is far sadder and bigger problem in reality than the lack of lasagne in your town.

But bullying is wrong, always. 

But are you forgetting there are people behind screens? People with hearts? Picking on people url is still as bad as doing it irl.  

If a Lunter shipper don’t use their ship to hate on Lumity, why seeing it as something bad? Isn’t it best to enjoy your own comfort content and leaving others alone? Do you think that making them scared to share content of their ship is right?  It just makes this fandom more threatening.

You CAN of course dislike it, it’s your opinion and feeling. But making statements directly to shame who does or insult the ships just feels wrong and unrespectful. Why bothering about others when you can just enjoy your favourite content?

Again, I am a Lumity shipper, I don’t think yet of Lunter in a romantical way, nor I’m sure I ever will, but I find this really worrying.  Please, try to not let this escalate... 

[gimme-mor]

ACOTAR THINK PIECE: ELAIN ARCHERON, UNTOUCHABLE

*DISCLAIMER*

This will be a long post.

Please take the time to read this post in its entirety and truly reflect on the message I am trying to send before commenting. My goal is to use my background in Gender and Women’s Studies to deconstruct the comments I have seen on Tumblr and Twitter and bring awareness to the ACOTAR fandom.

The reason I am tagging “Elriel” in this post is to call attention to the arguments in the Elriel fandom that: weaponize Elain’s femalehood to shame real life people for their opinions about Elain’s character and her relationship with Lucien; victimize Elain’s character in fandom discussions; and coddle Elain’s character, which limits fandom discussions about her narrative development and prevents the ACOTAR fandom from holding Elain accountable for her actions and inactions in the same way that the fandom holds other characters accountable for their actions and inactions. It is for these reasons that I WILL NOT remove the “Elriel” tag from this post because all of the above points contribute to the toxic discourse surrounding Elain’s character.

I urge those who use these arguments to understand their implications, why they are problematic, regardless of intent, and reexamine their contributions to the ACOTAR fandom. I WILL NOT tolerate anyone who tries to twist my words and say I am attacking people and their personal shipping preferences. In fact, I AM CRITIQUING THE ARGUMENTS THEMSELVES NOT THE PEOPLE USING THE ARGUMENTS.

Also, I highly encourage the Elriel fandom to read this post because it addresses how the concept of choice as an argument enables arguments to exploit social justice and feminist languge in order to vilify Elucien shippers, among other problematic things.

Elain Archeron is one of the most polarizing characters in the ACOTAR fandom. Though opinions about Elain vary, arguments in the Elriel fandom cite society’s perception of traditional female characters in comparison to non-traditional female characters as the reason behind the hate, and this belief is used to provide an explanation as to why other characters in the series are favored over her. In the series, Elain is portrayed in a wholly positive light and this image carries over into the Elriel fandom, painting her character as a good and kind female who has been unfairly wronged and a victim of circumstances that were out of her control. When arguments in the Elriel fandom oppose other viewpoints in the fandom, they fall into one of three categories:

Category 1: Weaponize Elain’s femalehood to shame real life people for their opinions

Maybe people who hate Elain are just jealous of her in a weird way similar to when someone hates the pretty, nice, and charming girl in school just because she is too perfect

Disliking Elain is misogynistic

What happened to feminism? What happened to women supporting women? What happened to she can say no? All of that disappears the second you force Elain to be with Lucien

Elain antis are misogynistic

All Eluciens are Elain antis

Antis claiming they’re feminists when in reality they hate on Elain and Feyre but love Nesta

Elain antis are such sore losers. Y’all were that bunch of people who could not get over being rejected from hanging out with the cool kids so y’all are projecting your hatred towards pretty people now to get validation

I don’t get how Elain’s love for gardening equals boring for some people. I’m sorry your misogyny finds traditionally feminine activities boring

Why are you attacking a female? What did Elain do? Where are your feminist voices?

The fandom is misogynistic towards Elain

If people loved Elain they would ship Elriel

If you hate Elain it says a lot about your feelings toward women

If you hate Elain because she has no “development” then you must hate Azriel because otherwise you’re misogynistic

Eluciens are turned off by the idea of a woman that has the autonomy to reject a man for the simple reason that it is her choice

Eluciens are all about feminism and “it’s HER choice” until it comes down to females not wanting a male

Eluciens don’t respect Elain’s feelings when they ship her with someone that was part of her trauma and makes her feel uncomfortable

The way some Elucien shippers completely disregard how uncomfortable Elain is around Lucien is so hilariously not funny. Prioritizing being mates over Elain’s feelings is just regressive

It’s hard as a fan of Elain to see someone ship her with a person who makes her physically uncomfortable to be around. Wouldn’t you want both characters to be happy to be around each other

Imagine if SJM saw all the awful things her “stans” had to say about Elain

It’s true that we know comparatively little about her, but is she really boring or do you just not value stereotypically feminine traits?

So y’all are just gonna tell me you prefer Elucien over Elriel? Even though Lucien treats Elain as if she’s something that belongs to him? The only reason he wants to be with her is because she’s his mate, he doesn’t respect her, doesn’t treat her as his equal, even though that’s what mates should be? He doesn’t bother to look past what’s on the outside to see her for who she is. And Elain is obviously repulsed by the idea that she should belong to anyone or have no choice in who she can be with. Azriel is her friend and the only person who sees her quiet strength. He has so much faith in her, in her abilities; he’s the one who kept her company when no one else did, he’s the only one who bothered to see her for more than her brokenness. You’re going to tell me you still prefer Elucien over Elriel?

The more I see Gwynriels that ship Elucien out of their hate for Elain, the less I can understand Elain stans that ship Elucien. Pls Elain has made it very clear that she doesn’t want Lucien, why would you ship her with him? Do you hate her too? Smh

The real question would be, if you care and understand Elain why would you ship her with Lucien (where she canonically shrinks when he is near)?

People crying over Helion and Lucien’s mom not getting to be with each other and her being forced into a relationship she didn’t want, but also ship Elucien? Just say you hate Elain

When Elain’s book is out, Gwyn stans will look like clowns and I will laugh because they set her up by shipping her with Azriel just because they hate Elain. Watch them play the victims now because Elriels are clapping back the hate they’ve sent towards Elain

As romantic as wanting girl who is visibly uncomfortable around a guy who caused her trauma to end up with the said guy. Guess their standards for romance are in hell

Category 2: Victimize Elain’s character

Gwynriels only want Gwyn with Azriel because they despise Elain

Gwyn stans and Gwynriels are Elain antis

No one in the books dislike Elain, so why are there so many people who do?

Elain hasn’t done anything wrong or questionable to warrant the hate she gets

Not having Elain’s POV makes it easy for people to be swayed a certain way about her character if you already don’t relate to her in some way

It’s been years since this series came out and we haven’t gotten a lick of an Elain POV, but people still hate her for what? We don’t know her thoughts, dreams, or aspirations

We haven’t even had Elain’s perspective yet and people are passing these judgments off on her

Elain antis who say she’s boring are just cruel when she has obvious symptoms of PTSD like Feyre and Nesta

Gwyn is one of the most overhyped characters and that’s only because most people hate Elain and they couldn’t wait to find a random girl to ship Azriel with

Nesta was abusive to her sisters but Elain (who has only ever been kind) is painted as the villain

From the text we know that Elain is the epitome of feminine stereotypes (gentle, gardening, baking, non confrontational for the most part). Yet people still call her boring or deny that she has any interesting character traits?

You can’t love Nesta and hate Elain

People hate Elain because of internalized misogyny and lack of taste. All the girl does is tend to her garden and mind her business and they treat her worse than Tamlin

Does Gwyn deserve all this support? Of course yes! She is amazing! But where’s that support when Elain was in the same situation as she? Where’s that support for her right now? Why do they idolize Gwyn for her interactions with Azriel and hate Elain for having any interaction with him?

It’s not even a ship war anymore, they just hate Elain

People hate Elain for no reason

Some of y’all don’t like feminine traits and it shows

We know less about Eris and Helion but people don’t call them boring. Why would rejecting femininity make Elain more interesting?

Elain has had a lot forced upon her

The main reason I believe most people love Gwyn so much is to get Azriel away from Elain. It’s not a secret that Elain has been a widely hated character for years so suddenly we get a new female who has a minimal amount of interactions with Azriel and BOOM. New ship that once again doesn’t make sense (just like Azriel x Emerie after ACOFAS)

Elain hasn’t done something so terrible for her to get this hate. At this point some of you are just being misogynistic and you don’t want to accept it. Don’t call yourselves feminists and then say bs like this, it’s embarrassing. She’s pretty and everyone agreed to hate on her

Just a personal feeling, but I feel like a lot of the Elain hate stems from internalized misogyny. That to be a strong female lead, you need to pick up a sword and fight. That to be strong, you need to adapt traditionally masculine traits

Elain is feminine. She is beautiful. She loves to bake and garden. She is docile, quiet, observant, and a people-pleaser. All traditionally feminine traits. Yet for some reason, she’s like the worst in these people’s eyes?

I think also maybe a lot of people can’t relate to her femininity? That her being so beautiful and quiet doesn’t allow for the people who dislike her not to self-insert? Most of the hate stems from people not wanting Elain to be with Azriel. It’s mean, but maybe the people who hate Elain literally just can’t self-insert if they have a story and that’s why they’re vehemently against it?

Poor Elain. The Cauldron dealt her a bad deal. Upon emerging as Fae, she is immediately declared by Lucien as his mate, never mind that she was already engaged to a prick. Her love life is not good

It blows my mind how they really think that they can compare all the shit that Elain gets with some dumb jokes about Gwyn on Twitter (and yes, the “hate” towards her started mostly because Elriels are clapping back, it was bound to happen)

I would think of it as anti-feminist with Elain and Lucien because she has consistently stated that she does not want him so if she was forced to embrace the bond that would be taking away her right to have a choice but with Az she feels comfortable around so if they were mates then Elain would be happy and feel safe which again should be the priority for women to feel safe in their relationships with anything and to not be forced into any type of situation aka the mating bond in this

Category 3: Coddle Elain’s character

Elain has value the way she is, in all her domestic girly glory. Not every character has to be badass

We don’t speak of Elain’s flaws frequently because everyone else already speaks badly of her, mainly in an unfair way

There is definitely something deeper going on with Elain but by no means will she ever be evil or any less feminine. That goes against everything we already know about her

It’s ok to critique Elain because she needs growth but y’all keep forgetting the shit her and her sisters went through

The last “bad” thing Elain did in ACOTAR was not help Feyre when they were impoverished and I’m tired of people acting like she’s a terrible character when it was their father’s responsibility. It happened 4 books ago and Feyre has forgiven both Nesta and Elain

Elain’s character and the evil Elain theory are a great example of the trend where people only consider female characters interesting if they reject femininity

We don’t know enough to hate Elain

Many people want Elain to turn evil (which in my opinion seems to come from a place of internalized misogyny)

However we don’t tend to talk about her faults, at least not publicly, as that has been, and still is, done to death, and I--personally, at least--find it much more fun to theorise about potentially interesting aspects of the overall plot, than dwell on negatives

And ultimately, I would be shocked if Elain has a more karmically-charged story than Nesta, considering that Elain’s “wrongs” are so much less severe and bad than Nesta’s, and Elain has already apologized for them (or paid the price in other ways, like through what Graysen did)

I guess I also think Elain has suffered and been punished enough. I hope her story is about finding hope in terrible situations, and learning to love her new life, and choosing her own path after everything that has been done to her. I don’t think she needs to be punished anymore or face any additional trauma

Also, why is she being judged on her decisions as a human at all? Fae are monsters to humans! They enslaved them for thousands of years, and the Wall was erected to keep them out

Like I’m sorry, but think Elain would want to leave her ONLY FAMILY AND FRIENDS for the Spring Court where she has no one because--oh look, lots of flowers!--is the craziest thing I have ever heard

Her sisters are in the Night Court. Her nephew is in the Night Court. Her closest friends (Nuala and Cerridwen) are in the Night Court. Her love interest is in the Night Court. Her extended family is in the Night Court. Her home is in the Night Court

SJM isn’t going to keep two sisters together and split up the third. Especially not keep Feyre and Nesta together and separate Elain. They were either all going to end up in separate places, or together. Not 2 here and 1 there

Compared to the other female characters in the series, Elain is the only character whose femalehood is at the center of conversations; this is because arguments in the Elriel fandom fixate on it when discussing her character. While Elain, Feyre, Nesta, and Mor are all representations of white womanhood and white beauty, Elain epitomizes the most fragile version of white womanhood. It’s easy to blame society’s perception of traditional female characters in comparison to non-traditional female characters when it comes to the discourse surrounding Elain’s character because it: falls in line with the fixation on Elain’s femalehood to silence opposing viewpoints; is a simplistic explanation that fails to tackle the underlying issues with Elain as a character, the same issues that are downplayed in-universe; absolves Elain of her wrongdoings; prevents the ACOTAR fandom from holding Elain accountable for her actions and inactions within the series; and diminishes the impact Elain’s actions and inactions have on those around her. It’s not that Elain is hated in the fandom because she’s a traditional female character; it’s the fact that arguments in the Elriel fandom deflect a critical analysis of Elain’s character because she’s a traditional female character who embodies the ideal white woman in need of protection. White fans and white-aligned fans of color, especially white women, have a tendency to vehemently defend, gatekeep, and coddle white female characters in fandom; this makes it difficult for other fans to engage in critical discussions about these white female characters because they’re viewed as flawless and all around perfect characters despite evidence to the contrary. Since Elain is viewed positively by the other characters in the series, it has rendered her character untouchable to any perceived slight or criticism in fandom discussions because those negative opinions challenge what has been said about her character thus far. And as a result, her character has been placed on a pedestal and implicitly hailed as the epitome of white womanhood; and when she’s criticized, it’s seen as a direct attack against white womanhood. Arguments in the Elriel fandom: exploit feminist language and perpetuate white feminist tactics under the guise of defending Elain’s character; center Elain in conversations about female oppression in the ACOTAR world and uphold white feminist ideologies in their critique of ACOTAR’s patriarchal society; and use the fragile white woman narrative to victimize Elain in Lucien’s presence, playing into racial biases that are associated with white supremacy’s defense of white womanhood.

Feminism is a social movement that seeks to promote equality and equity to all genders, and feminists work toward eradicating gender disparities on a macro-level, in addition to challenging gender biases on a micro-level. As feminism became more mainstream, a flat and oversimplified version of feminism emerged: mainstream feminism. The mainstream feminist movement is meant to represent all women, but rarely does it center conversations around issues that concern most women. The problem with mainstream feminism is that it’s just a popularized version of white feminism. White feminism has relied extensively on an individualized understanding of women’s oppression, exclusively from the lens of privileged white women. White feminism only focuses on the oppression experienced by white, able-bodied, affluent, educated, cishet women; and it views gender as the key mode of privileged white women’s oppression, isolated from the privileges granted by their other social identities. White women can be and are oppressed under the patriarchy but only because they are women; their identity as women does not exempt them from the privileges granted by their whiteness. The term white feminist does not mean any feminist who is white, but refers to feminists who prioritize the concerns of privileged white women as though they are representative of all women. However, the term is not exclusive to white people. Because white feminism is so pervasive, people of other racial and ethnic backgrounds often buy into white feminism, believing that if they work hard enough, they may be able to reap its rewards.

Just like white feminism, mainstream feminism only recognizes the identity of being a woman, assumes that all women share common experiences of gender oppression, fails to address other social identities in relation to overlapping systems of oppression, and disregards privilege in relation to various social identities. Just like white feminism, mainstream feminism is palatable because it doesn’t seek to challenge the systems in place, instead its goal is to succeed within them. Essentially, mainstream feminism and white feminism are extensions of performative feminism. Performative feminism is a type of performative activism that’s used to describe feminist views that are surface level and solely for the benefit of one type of person. It’s a pretense which often has nothing to do with genuine activism. Arguments in the Elriel fandom normalize and promote performative feminism because the topic of feminism is only referenced when discussing Elain. This indicates that these arguments are engaging in disingenuous discourse to push a personal agenda within the ACOTAR fandom, and it becomes more apparent when they use white feminist tactics to shut down opposing viewpoints:

White feminists weaponize and exploit feminist language to silence the opinions of other women, especially when they’re called out for their problematic behaviors

White feminists use the phrase “Women supporting women” to defend other white feminists who exhibit problematic behaviors instead of holding them accountable 

White feminists weaponize phrases like “Women supporting women” and “You just hate women” to attack other women who disagree with them on any given topic

White feminists use phrases like “All women face challenges” and “Stop pitting women against each other” to sidestep conversations about privilege

White feminists divert conversations away from privilege and towards the Trauma Olympics to equate their struggles to the oppression of marginalized people 

White feminists skirt around the realities of other forms of oppression and discrimination, downplaying the experiences of marginalized people

White feminists diminish or ignore the ways in which gender oppression affects other marginalized people

White feminists paint those they harmed as aggressive, mean, or divisive when confronted with the ways they have harmed a marginalized group

White feminists deflect criticism by focusing on the anger or emotions being expressed rather than the issue that is being discussed, invalidating the concerns of marginalized people

White feminists speak over marginalized voices in an attempt to sound “woke”

White feminists get defensive and insist there’s no way they could be a part of the problem because of what they’ve done to help marginalized groups already 

White feminists say they don’t see color in an attempt to obscure racial issues that need to be addressed

White feminists center and victimize themselves in conversations about racism, which derails necessary conversations from taking place

White feminists who are white weaponize the intersectionality of their race and gender to avoid accountability

Feminism is not meant to be approached from an individualistic perspective nor is it only about addressing the experiences of privileged white women, it involves addressing the intersections of race, class, gender, sexuality, (dis)ability, and other social identities as well; and it involves addressing how these social identities relate to privilege. Moreover, feminism is not about women upholding complete loyalty to other women because of a shared gender identity, and to claim that it does implies that women should be held to different emotional standards than men. If men are able to dislike and criticize other individual men, real or fictional, without their characters being compromised, why aren’t women granted that same privilege?

It’s clear that SJM set up the ACOTAR world to mirror a patriarchal society, and that the imbalance of power between males and females stems from sexism. Arguments in the Elriel fandom analyze the ACOTAR world through a feminist lens to show how ACOTAR’s patriarchal society, to which the mating bond is innately tied, contributes to female oppression and limits their agency. When choice and free will are emphasized as part of Elain’s arc, they imply that Elain, through the mating bond, experiences female oppression under ACOTAR’s patriarchal society because of her identity as a female with that identity being the focal point of her oppression in the world. Elain is one of the most privileged characters in the ACOTAR world: she’s High Fae; she’s the sister of the High Lord and High Lady of the Night Court, which gives her access to wealth and political influence because of that connection; she’s able-bodied; she was magically blessed by the Cauldron; and she lives in Velaris, a place that grants females autonomy and power because of the beliefs of Rhysand and Feyre. Arguments in the Elriel fandom trivialize female oppression in the ACOTAR world because they disregard the fact that Elain’s privileges prevent her from experiencing female oppression in the same way that other marginalized females in the world do. The mating bond being one such example because those around Elain are not forcing the bond on her, instead they’re allowing Elain to reach a decision about the bond for herself; a privilege that other marginalized females in the world probably wouldn’t have. Just because Elain has endured hardships in her life and is a female in a patriarchal society, they do not erase the privileges she holds within the ACOTAR world. The failure to include Elain’s privileges in discussions about Elain being a female in a patriarchal society feeds into white feminist ideologies because white feminism operates from a very narrow perspective; it doesn’t take other intersecting identities into account when it examines gender oppression, leaving no room for discussions about privilege (or lack thereof) in relation to those intersecting identities. When discussing oppression in hierarchical societies, it’s imperative that privilege is also included in the conversation because privilege and oppression are not mutually exclusive; they equally affect the ways in which people navigate those societies through their social identities.

Rather than attributing Elain’s uncomfortability to her new life as a Fae female or the mating bond itself and her trauma to the Cauldron, the King of Hybern, or Ianthe, they’re placed on Lucien to cast his character in a negative light. Moreover, fandom discussions portray Lucien as a possessive character to further emphasize Elain’s discomfort despite the inaccuracy of this characterization in canon. Arguments in the Elriel fandom play into racial biases when it comes to Lucien (a male character of color) because they mischaracterize his character in order to victimize Elain (a white female character), placing her character in the role of the white damsel in distress. In Western society, the concept of womanhood has been conceptualized from a Eurocentric perspective with femininity and feminine attributes favoring white women. It’s the idea that a certain type of femininity is only inherent to white women as they are seen as the embodiment of an ideal womanhood. White womanhood has been a symbol of innocence and purity, and white women have been viewed as fragile beings in need of protection. The reason white womanhood functions within white supremacy is because it’s the same idea that has motivated white men to kill and beat black and brown men. The so-called protection of white women has been used as a justification for the horrific violence committed by white men because black and brown men were stereotyped as aggressive and seen as a threat to the virtue of white women. The white damsel in distress trope considered white women as worthy of protection because of their perceived innocence and purity; women of color were not granted that same treatment because they did not fit into the ideal image of womanhood. Over the years, this trope became a means for white women to exercise limited power in a patriarchal society with white women weaponizing their status as the damsel much to the detriment of black and brown men. It’s through the white damsel in distress trope that white supremacy sustains its dominance in Western society. The misrepresentation of characters of color in fandom, the dismissal of their importance to the overall story, and using them as tools in arguments centered around white characters are the foundation of fandom racism; they’re examples of how racism moves silently in fandom spaces. Instead of examining their behavior and taking constructive criticism from fans of color, white fans will often double down on their bigotry and center their uncomfortability in the conversation when confronted with their complicity in fandom racism. White fans expect fans of color to swallow fandom racism in its many forms in order to not ruin the experience of fandom, dismissing the fact that racism is prevalent in nearly every aspect of society. This mentality ensures that no one is held accountable for the harm they caused and alienates fans of color in fandom spaces.

To reiterate what I mentioned in my first think piece: terms like “oppression”, “the right to choose”, “feminist”, “feminism”, “anti-feminist”, “anti-feminism”, “internalized misogyny”, “misogyny”, “misogynist”, “sexist”, “sexism”, “racist”, “racism”, “classist”, “classism”, “discrimination”, and “patriarchy” are all used in specific ways to draw attention to the plight of marginalized people and challenge those who deny the existence of systems of oppression. Yet these words and their meanings can be twisted to attack, exclude, and invalidate people with differing opinions on any given topic. When social justice and feminist terms are thrown around antagonistically and carelessly to push a personal agenda, it becomes clear that these terms are being used to engage in disingenuous discourse and pursue personal validation rather than being used out of any deep-seated conviction to dismantle systemic oppression. Being an ally, activist, or feminist is not an identity, it’s a practice. It requires: ongoing self-reflection; holding ourselves accountable; listening to marginalized people; educating ourselves; dismantling implicit biases; challenging those around us who are exhibiting problematic behaviors; and action behind our words.

It’s important to be aware of the language that is used within the fandom when defending or critiquing characters and ships. It’s also important to question how an argument is framed and why it’s framed the way that it is to critically examine the intent behind that argument: is it used as a tool to push a personal agenda that reinforces problematic behaviors, or is it used as an opportunity to share, learn, enlighten, and educate?

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Tagging: @spell-cleavers @bookofmirth @m0bulidae @ilya-boltagon

[wisemins]

✧༻❀!Starshine’s Self-ship Promo!❀༺✧

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𝙨𝙘𝙖𝙣𝙣𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙘𝙤𝙙𝙚...

𝙎𝙚𝙡𝙛-𝙨𝙝𝙞𝙥𝙥𝙚𝙧 𝙙𝙚𝙩𝙚𝙘𝙩𝙚𝙙!

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❝𝑮𝒐𝒐𝒅 𝒎𝒐𝒓𝒏𝒊𝒏𝒈 𝑺𝒕𝒂𝒓𝒔𝒉𝒊𝒏𝒆, 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝒆𝒂𝒓𝒕𝒉 𝒔𝒂𝒚𝒔 𝒉𝒆𝒍𝒍𝒐!❞

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❥ Hello all, I’m Starshine, your local self-shipping goblin here to finally make a promo/pinned post! 

❥ Paragirl | She/her, they/them, zhe/her | Bisexual, Ficto, ace spectrum | INFP-T

❥ If you’re in need of a new self-ship pal, need a gush pass or simply want to read this, travel onward!

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Carrd (something to get my sillies out with. Other info too. Graphic design is my passion *blaring Star Wars intro*) (Sidenote, right as of 4/5/24, haven't paid my yearly carrd yet, so info is missing. Bottom line for dni: don't be weird. treat people right. and no fuckin pedophiles.)

Full F/O List (I recommend you take a gander at this since I sometimes I’m too lazy to update my carrd. I’ll always update this list though.)

FYI (tidbits about me, stuff you might not need to know but I wanna share. Includes list of fandoms.)

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Before we move forward, I must mention these few things!

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❥ I do not tolerate ship discourse or any discourse for that matter on my blog, don’t bring it round’ these parts please. I do not care to discuss it or perpetuate it, thank you!

❥ I am not comfortable with sharing romantic F/Os as romantics, platonics and familials are completely fine though (queer platonics are the exception here!). I have a butt-ton of f/os by the way, if that bothers you I recommend you dip out. But if we only share like one or two, I can just block your tags too! Just lmk!

❥ I am 22 years old, please be aware of this! I might post some NSFW things, keep this in mind! I also swear a lot in text. Plenty of my men and women are also whores, sorry about that.

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Now that’s out of the way, here’s a little bit about me!

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❥ I’m an artist in almost every regard, mostly digital and traditional art! I also write a lot (peep my Etsy I write love letters for people like us ❤️❤️❤️ ) do art commissions there too, and make jewelry for myself and my close ones!

❥ I’ve been self-shipping for as long as I can remember, I still have my very first f/o on my list that I actively inserted myself with over 8 years ago!

❥ I’m a massive fan of music, a self-titled music geek if you will, I also have over 200+ confirmed playlists. I take it a little too seriously, blame the autism.

❥ I’m native american and very proud of it!

❥ I’m incredibly gay! Like man. Really gay. Anyways--

❥ I’m a punk, feel free to ask me about it!

❥ I’m gaming. A lot. Pew pew pew

❥ Maladaptive daydreamer!

❥ CEO of AoT f/os, Marvel f/os, Star Wars f/os, CoD f/os, and biker f/os! Probably more to come knowing me

❥ Talk to me about my favorite fandoms and I’ll lichrally explode  

❥ I run an imagines blog! @selfshipseaside​

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Tagging system

I usually have two tags for each romantic f/o, sometimes just one! Platonics and familials only have one tag. Keep in mind I haven’t been using this system for very long, my old posts are tagged with no emojis, just the tags themselves. So be aware of that! 

Romantic ships will be tagged with: ❤️: [tag] 

Platonic ships will be tagged with: ✨: [tag]

Familial ships will be tagged with: 🏡: [tag]

Crushes will be tagged with: 💌: [tag]

Retired/Exes will be tagged with: 💔: [tag]

Queer-platonic ships will be tagged with: 🫶: [tag]

Note: I might sometimes post something suggestive or NSFW. Block this tag: “Starshine’s feelin’ spicy 😳” if you are either a minor or just don’t wanna see it. Thank you!!

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❥ If you got this far and you seem to enjoy my vibes, please feel free to follow or dm me! I am in love with my babes, and I’d love to hear your love stories! I absolutely adore making new self-shipping friends, do not be afraid of me fellas!

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[klaushargreeveses]

I think (or hope) it goes without saying that Loumand has never been a despised or taboo ship in the VC fandom, and that Armand is, and has always been, a hugely popular character. I'll grant you that Loustat and Devil's Minion seem to be most fans’ preference, but shipping wars were barely ever a thing in the fandom before as far as I’m aware, given the fluid polyamory of all the characters, meaning that no ship ever technically cancels out another.

The current discourse surrounding “Loumand shippers” has basically nothing to do with book readers who like that dynamic; if you viewed some of the comments out of context you could be forgiven for thinking that I suppose, but in fact I’ve seen several long-time Loumand shippers also trying to warn new fans that no, Armand is not Lestat’s benevolent narrative foil, and no, season two isn’t going to turn into a syrupy domestic romcom. Even they are pointing out that it's a deeply fucked-up pairing (and that's generally why they like it), that Armand is a toxic Botticelli goblin who we can expect to be at least as dramatically unwholesome as Lestat, albeit in his own special way, and that black-and-white morality has no place in this story whatsoever.

It’s obviously fine to watch the show without having read the books, and it’d be unreasonable to expect new fans to have the same frame of reference we do. The show is its own thing, but it's still using the books as its basis, and so far all of the characters still have the core traits of their literary counterparts. The discourse was sparked by a very specific brand of new fan - a vocal minority, probably - who insist that the book canon is wrong, and the writers must instead cater to a set of wildly unrealistic headcanons that would require a total overhaul of the plot, tone, theme, and genre of the story.

As Nalyra said, Loumand are canon, and a valid pairing. If you look at the wider context of the discussion you'll probably see the legitimacy of the ship isn't what's under dispute, nor is this about promoting Loustat Supremacy or whatever. No one has an axe to grind with Loumand fans who are a) accepting of what the relationship canonically entails or b) willing to keep an open mind or at least be Normal about it if the show doesn't conform to their specific fantasies.

Hi, not to hark back to the same topic but I've noticed that this dislike of Loumand shippers in the fandom - and the calling them delusion for liking Armand despite his (MANY) flaws - never extends to other Armand ships like ArmanDaniel for example.

Is it because fans feel like Loumand would interfere with their OTP and that Louis should only be with Lestat? To me, as a book reader, it really doesn't make any sense because all these characters are poly and Lestat also had many other love interests in the book including Rowan (eww) and Nicki - Nickistat is one of the biggest ships in the VC fandom, especially for book readers.

Why should Lestat be allowed to have multiple love interests but Louis can only have one? And why is Armand bad to ship with Louis but totally okay for Daniel - who btw he is horribly abusive to in the books, but fans gloss over it and ship them anyway.

I guess what I am saying is, justice for Loumand! It's a ship just as valid (and as toxic) as all the other ones in the VC.

... I'm not sure that's the reason... I mean I've said it before, the "ships" in this fandom, are all more or less canon relationships... including Loumand.

I think the whole mess comes from the show's chosen (deliberate) setup (including podcast etc here) and the sheer fact that Armand ... is Armand.

That... creates friction.

I'm not sure the other relationships have really clicked for the show-only audience yet, but they are very vocal about what they think is happening.

And that is why some people have problems with it, because there is a certain subset of fans which does not want to hear the answer... even though they're (literally) asking.

That is something that is not limited to this ship though, it's something I've noticed in the "real world" as well - an unwillingness to test ones own bias or belief, and an unwillingness to learn. The world is seen as black and white only, pun not intended.

So no, I do not think we need "justice for Loumand" calls or anything, tbh, they are a canon relationship.

And Armand / Daniel is the Devil's Minion btw :)

[dontbipanicjonsa]

Did Kit suddenly lose his ability to heart-eye or is Pol!Jon actually a thing.

I'm late to the fandom but I just finished S7 and I'm having thoughts.

I'm a reader of the books, and I hadn't watched the show till now because... I suck at watching shows with hour long episodes and more than three seasons.

What made me decide to watch it was the Pol!Jon discourse I found on the Internet.

I know enough about the show to understand how unlikely and out of character this theory would seem to show watchers. At the same time, I fully believe that book!Jon would be fully capable of something like this. But also, even though I do ship Jonsa in the books, I can't deny that Jonerys is.....a big deal. Everyone expects it to happen. It's a highly anticipated pairing and....I just couldn't honestly believe Pol!Jon because it is just so against the general expectation.

So I decided to watch the show. And now I've finished season 7 and I am astounded.

Let me preface this by saying that I went into S7 already disliking Jonerys (sue me) but I still fully expected to have some serious doubts about the validity of Jonsa. I fully expected to be at least somewhat convinced of Jonerys. Even hating the idea of Jon and Danaerys together, I still expected more.

There are a number of things I would like to note here.

First, Jonerys is a romance that is told, not shown. Davos talks about Jon watching Dany's "good heart" (hehe) to tell us Jon is attracted to Dany. But then Jon immediately dismisses it- and not in a way that looks like he's deflecting. He's not only dismissing it, he's dismissive of it. His mind is not in the conversation, it is beyond the Wall.

Similarly, Tyrion says (not in those words), "yeah right, and Jon only looks at you longingly coz he wants a military alliance with you". Not sure what I'm supposed to think about that....? First, Jon doesn't look at Dany longingly at all???? Not once. Second, is this line supposed to suggest that Jon is looking at her longingly for a reason that is not desperately wanting a military alliance....? Because we already know that that's exactly what he does want. Wtf do I make of this statement?????

There are other examples, but the point remains. People keep talking about Jon and Dany being into each other, and that is what is supposed to convince us that they are into each other (well yea Dany is) but Jon gives no indication of looking at her longingly, of falling in love with her, of being intrigued by her even. He's a brick wall.

Alright, I'll concede one (1) scene where I saw legitimate attraction on his face for a second- that is the cave scene. Even there tho, it's hard to tell if he's just watching her reaction carefully or if he wants to bang her.

On the other hand, Dany shows that she is into him. Even so, when I say she's into him, I mean she's attracted to him and intrigued by him. I cannot believe she loves him.

Next, I think it's interesting that in the episode before (or was it the same episode?) Jon bends the knee, we have a number of people (Tormund, Beric) talk about stuff like- kings not bending the knee leading to people dying, knowing what's important (the fight against the dead), being the shield that guards the realm of men blah blah I don't remember the exact words. Then he sees the WW and the Army of the Dead (again) and sees a dragon die. And then, the first opportunity he gets, he bends the knee. I want to point out here that the scenes really emphasise on Jon's thinking face after every conversation he has during their little gay party beyond the Wall. They focus on the look on his face again while he's watching the Army. Multiple times. And there's clearly something going on in his head, gears are turning.

One other scene that struck me is the scene where Jon and Dany are saying goodbye to each other (the Eastwatch episode). In the same episode (if I remember correctly) Jon calls them strangers, and then the goodbye scene comes and Dany says to Jon's little morbid joke, "I've grown used to him". Him being Jon. Two things to note here-

One, Jon considers them strangers but Dany has gotten "used to him". Maybe it's nothing, or maybe it's an indication of how the two of them are absolutely not on the same page (about anything).

Second, Jon's face after she says that. It shuts down. Like a door slamming. And then he says that "wish you good fortune in the wars to come" line, which has ZERO romance, or longing, but a whole lot of bad precedent (does that make sense?). Ouch. The thought that occured to me here is that Dany is being somewhat obvious about her feelings, and maybe, just maybe Jon has picked up on it. And that is why he reacts the way he does.

I wasn't sure so I compared the scene with the Jonsa forehead kiss scene in S6, and Jon's expressions after that kiss.

My logic was this- I assume that either Jon has become aware of Dany's feelings in the Eastwatch goodbye scene, or his own feelings for her. One of these assumptions is true. Which one?

If Jon has feelings for Sansa, then his confusion/awareness/discomfort regarding that are seen in that forehead kiss scene. So if Jon has become aware of his feelings for Dany, let's see how these two scenes compare?

My dudes. There is no comparison. Go watch it.

I watched both scenes with sound off, and the difference is insane. Jon looks at Sansa's lips. There's a moment's pause that's full of tension, and then his face shuts in a way, but it's a bit confused, a bit thoughtful.

Jon does not look at Dany's lips. He does not look confused, or thoughtful. This is not a romance.

Side observation- speaking of showing and telling, it's funny how we're shown Jon looking at Sansa's wolf bits, and told that Jon looks at Dany's good heart. Yes I'm talking about boobs but wolf bits and good heart is funnier. We literally see Jon look at the wolf bits twice, talk about it himself, in a completely unnecessary conversation...as opposed to being entirely dismissive of the good heart, even when someone else brings it up.

Back to the main point, one last thing I'd like to talk about is the scene where Jon actually bends the knee (not really). First, there are still no heart-eyes. Definitely not from Jon. Second, it's funny how Jon uses the exact hand-grabbing move that Sansa used on him last season, when she was trying to convince him to do something he didn't particularly wanna do (like he's now trying to do with Dany). This means that

1) he learnt that move from Sansa. He knows how effective it is XD

2) if the Jonerys hand-grab is romance, it stands to reason that the Jonsa hand-grab is romance too. I mean both the grabs are suspiciously similar.

Then, even after Dany "promises" that she'll help the North fight the WW, Jon still bends the knee. I felt both an odd sense of urgency coming from him, and an understandable hesitation. Or maybe that's just me.

Now suddenly, he becomes complimentary of her. But there's something weird about his compliments. They are completely generic. "They'll see you for what you are" and in the later episode, "you're not like the others". Wtf does that MEAN ??

Here's the thing...Jon could have paid Dany a way more specific, genuine sounding compliment after bending the knee (complete with heart eyes). I mean she did just fly over the Wall to rescue him and his men. He could have said more, something meaningful, but he didn't. He bent the knee like a house on fire (that doesn't make sense but you get what I mean I hope) and paid generic compliments. Then he pretended to sleep until she left and then sighed very loudly.

??? Romance??? WHERE????

Then the dragon pit. Heart-eyes still missing.

Then the sex scene. What do I say? Lol.

No really. There are no heart eyes even during the sex scene. Honestly, idk what that face was. Not in love for sure.

Another side note- Arya and Sansa have talks while standing in the same place where the forehead kiss scene happened (wtf do you call that place again, the bridge.??) But no heart eyes. No lingering looks. There is no incestuous gay love between them, I can say for sure. All it does is prop up the odd incestuous vibes of the Jon Sansa scene in that same place.

ANOTHER side note- goddamn but does Sansa talk about Jon a lot.

Edit: I'm sure most of this stuff has already been discussed in other metas. My purpose here is only to put down my first thoughts after watching the season.

[neon-junkie]

Hey everyone,

This will be my final post addressing the fandom conflict that has quite frankly gotten out of hand. Although it’s very likely this post will be picked apart, no matter how well intended it is, I will no longer be addressing, interacting, or responding to any further accusations made against me. Of course, if people have questions from a genuine place of interest, I will be happy to clarify anything for you, either via DM’s or non-anon asks. I will not be answering anonymous asks on this, as I do not want anything else posted on this topic. 

As a side note: For anyone tempted to wade into the debate, I sincerely ask you not to get involved. Do not make yourself a target, do not feel you need to ‘pick a side’, and please do not think you have an obligation to reason with either side. It seems to be well past the point of that, so please find people you get along with in this fandom and curate a space for yourself away from all this conflict.

Warning: This post will contain uncensored slurs, mentions of racism, paedophilia, transphobia, LGBTQ+ phobia, death threats, threats of violence, targeted harassment, and abusive language.

To start off, I want to apologise to everyone who has somehow gotten drawn into this mess by either defending me, following me, or interacting with my content. This whole situation with me began well over a year ago when I wrote a crack-smut fic featuring Javier/Micah, posted back in August 2019. A crack fic is defined as “a work of fan fiction that is absurd, surprising or ridiculous, often intentionally.” It was inspired by a camp interaction between Micah and Javier, and like many other fanfiction writers, I decided to write smut about it. The fic was titled ‘Dirty Fucking Greaser’, and if that shocks you, I’m sure you can imagine how shocked I was to be informed afterwards that ‘Greaser’ was in fact a very serious 19th century slur for a Mexican individual. My first encounter with this word as insult was via RDR2, where it was used like a very casual insult. My only prior knowledge of this term was in regards to the greasers youth subculture, so the severity was lost on me. This obviously does not excuse my ignorance, and I should have researched the term better, but this is just again to apologize for that oversight, the insensitivity, and to highlight that my use of this term was not meant maliciously. Following this being pointed out, I proceeded to make 3 separate apology posts [Unfortunately I can only find the third one: HERE], renamed the fic, and added slur warnings in both the tags and the fic description. When I continued to receive complaints and increasingly aggressive abuse (which included being told my apologies weren’t good enough and I should delete my account and even kill myself), I attempted to delete the fic and mistakenly abandoned it instead. I contacted AO3 to see if it could be removed, but they said there was nothing they could do. I contacted their DMCA takedown team, who also said they couldn't remove it. Please note that all this happened 7-8 months ago, and has been dragged on for almost a year. 

So, from this one unfortunate incident, I’ve been branded a racist, and someone who attacks POC, when all I have done is tried to defend myself and correct my past mistakes. I could have done this more gracefully in the past, but frankly when you’re suddenly the target of unrelenting callout posts and nasty anons, it’s very hard to be open to criticism of this sort, but this is what I’m trying to move past.

Over the course of the year, this one mistake has spiralled, and the crusade against me has somehow coincided with moral conflicts over certain characters and ships. This has devolved into dehumanizing abuse, witch hunts, death threats, doxxing, anon hate, and much more unpleasant behaviour.

I have been in fandom for a very long time, and at the heart of all fandom circles is the fear of censorship and subsequent purges, so the ‘ship and let ship’ mentality was more or less the pinnacle of fandom philosophy. And yes, this can be problematic in some contexts. People have their right to be uncomfortable with content, have a right to be offended by content, but that is not content meant for you. This argument has devolved into ‘what material is morally right to engage with’ and that is a mentality in which fandom will not survive, because for every person who is telling me I’m an awful person for writing about Micah, there are three other people telling me how much they appreciate me making that content. For every fic in which I characterize Javier and Flaco a certain way, some people are made uncomfortable by it and others tell me they enjoy it. And this isn’t just white people, but POC too, which makes it very difficult to know whether I am genuinely in the right or the wrong, especially when it comes to the concept of ‘fetishization’ which I have been made aware I need to educate myself on. I intend to do so, but I disagree with the common accusation that finding non-white men romantically and sexually attractive is inherently fetishistic and makes me racist. It’s pushing a catch-22; don’t find POC sexually attractive? Racist. Find POC sexually attractive? Racist.

I am always willing to be (politely) approached about anything my readers may be concerned about, but if it’s something I’ve specifically tagged for (such as themes, scenarios, etc.) I’m afraid you consented to reading it and with that I cannot help you. You are just as responsible for curating your space and what you see/read just as much as I am responsible for tagging it appropriately.  

On the topic of racism, I want to bring up my prior use of ��white racism’ which has obviously been a point of contention among both white and people of colour. The (literal) black vs white concept of racism is incredibly American-centric, and as someone from Europe, which has a history of oppression against white cultures and those of people of colour, it feels inaccurate. However, this has recently been discussed with me and I came to the realization that while growing up, especially in the UK, ‘xenophobia’ and ‘racism’ were marketed as one and the same. So, with this little revelation in mind, I will no longer be using ‘white racism’ (Or ‘reverse racism’) to identify the abuse I have been receiving, but will instead call it by what it really is; dehumanizing, debasing, xenophobic, puritanical.   

Very briefly, I will also touch on the NewAustin situation, which has also been dredged into this. I did not ‘chase a POC from tumblr’. NA was a minor who for some reason was on my 18+ blog and took issue with me, likely from the ongoing discourse regarding my fic and initial mistake, as well as my interest in Micah. They were subsequently harassed into deleting their account by anonymous hate following various conflicts with other users for their support of me or their ships in general. I have never encouraged my followers to target anyone, and have always asked to be blocked and blacklisted by those who do not like me or my content. When NewAustin messaged me following the deletion of their blog, I was admittedly indifferent to the point of being unkind, and accused them of sending the hate themselves. This was based on the anon hate being racially-driven without there being any prior knowledge or publication that NA was a person of colour. This aside, I should have at the time, whether I believed it was my followers or not, condemned this behaviour. Regardless of the issues I’ve had with these people, it is never ever ok to send hate to anyone, no matter the motivation behind it, and that should have been stated at the time.

All I can do at this point is acknowledged and apologize for my past mistakes, and try to improve myself going forward.  

It is not my place to dictate the morals of the character/ship-aspect of this argument, and I am not interested in waging a war of opinion. This post is simply to clarify how I am involved in this, and why I am so viscerally targeted. You can draw your own conclusions, but I am no longer interested in this endless back and forth.

To my mutuals/followers, I stand by my request to not interact and to block and move on, as this is what I’ll be doing too.

Thank you for taking the time to read this, and I hope it makes things from my perspective a little clearer.

-RAT <3

EDIT: Just after this post was made, the fic in question was finally removed. I had to go through a DMCA take down, which can take months, since I originally abandoned the fic, thinking that meant delete. I explain this in more detail above. Said fic is gone, and has been gone since this post has been around.

[fandom-oracle]

Wait wdym? Do you think fic is bad?

i'm getting canceled tonight i guess.

if you actually did a good a faith interpretation of my post you know it's not really ABOUT fanfiction at all, i actually write fanfiction myself. i'm not sharing here because it's overwhelmingly bad fic that i write exclusively as wish-fulfilment or for self-projection, but at least i'm self-aware about it. i am ALSO one of the people who reads ze Books™️, although most of the academic material i consume are nonfiction, so this whole thing is particularly annoying to me. the crux of the matter is that, if you're a little younger you might've missed it, but this website was a hotbed of scalding takes like 'dante's divine comedy is literally fanfiction', 'something something is literally fanfiction' when the thing in question barely counts as a transformative work and, in fact, it weakens the definition of transformative work in itself to try to apply it to literally anything that exhibits an ounce of intertextuality. plenty of takes that are... true, but require some nuance, focused on the idea of transformative fandom as a place defined by its presence of overwhelmingly female and disproportionately queer (occasionally, though disputedly, nonwhite) content creators and the ways in which transformative fan content could be interpreted as a space of defiance to cisheteropatriarchy in the way it permeates traditional media. a third, less common but still relevant take was the focus on how certain fandoms such as trek and doctor who have a long history of involvement in real-world civil rights issues and progressive politics. so this kind of take has been the dominant view on tumblr and transformative fandom for a good decade now, perhaps longer, and the people with this kind of takes can sometimes be a little... obnoxious. and the majority of people on transformative fandom (regardless of wether or not the fandom is disproportionately composed of nonwhite individuals or not, by sheer virtue of american demographics and this site`s heaily skewed userbase, the majority will still be white) are white, and like any other space dominated by white people, fandom has often been a vehicle for white supremacy. "Stitch Media Mix" talks about this in-depth. the discourse on fandom racism and ways in which transformative fandom as a whole contribute to racialized stereotypes, hierarchies, and deeper problems within online culture has led to a lot of people with grievances with fandom, many of whom are women of color, to develop an entire online identity built around the concept of being "critical of fandom", which is a very weird thing to do with fandom is literally billions of people, not a unified demographic, and that being critical of something can mean a WIDE amount of things; which in turn has led to a lot of people insulating themselves completely from any criticism of fandom as being inherently in bad faith, which a weird thing to do when literally ANY sphere of society should be open to criticism. people taking critiques of media they consume and taking critiques of their own critiques as personal attacks are abound here and make everything worse. so a fairly recent (mid2018ish, definitely post the insanity of reylo discourse but before sarah z blew up in popularity) trend has been that people in these communities isolate more and more and the general discourse has effetively resulted in people with differing takes in fanfiction specifically but fandom as a Whole (which is, again very weird to say because fandom is not 'a Whole' because there's no unifying element to different fandoms) only interacting with each other in hostile ways. and increasingly, in my personal sphere, a lot of people are positioning themselves in the "fandom critical" (AGAIN, WEIRD THING TO SAY, WHAT DOES IT EVEN MEAN, PLEASE USE WORDS WITH PRECISION) sphere, and I tend to take that "side" myself, but i specifically do not think framing this as a team A or team B thing is useful. this culture war was in the buildup.

last week a post by a user i follow recently became popular. the post itself was a critique that i.. do not necessarily agree with. it was ultimately about the idea of easily-consumable popular media being seen as an acceptable form of exclusive media engagement by people in the "pro-fandom" sphere, and how the insidiousness of this line of thinking has to do with how capitalist media production is designed to spread, and how fandom AS A TREND, not specifically any individuals or any fanworks, can empower capitalism. the post specifically did NOT use the kindest possible words, but that was what they were trying to say. howelljenkins also has really good takes on the subject, albeit from a different angle.

anyway because this is a circular culture war, the result was as follows: 1) a bunch of pro-fandom types refuse to actually make a charitable reading of the post and insist the user in question hates fandom and thinks people under capitalism shouldn't have things that are Fun, and should Only Read Theory and keep sending anon hate to several blogs in the opposing sphere, therefore proving the point that fandom sometimes prevent people from being able to engage critically with things; 2) a bunch of anti-fandom types who defined their entire identity on hating fandom being like "haha look at these cringe people" instead of trying to understand why a demographic overwhelmingly composed of marginalized people would feel strongly to posts that use inflammatory language against an interest of theirs, thereby proving the point that most criticism of fandom is divorced from actual fan content and is vaguely defined. the reason this is a culture war that actually deserves attention (unlike most fandom culture wars, which are just really granular ship wars made into social justice issues for clout) is that, for the most part, both of these groups are mostly people with college degrees, many of whom will contirbute to academia in the coming years. fan studies is a relevant field. these discussions have repercussions in wider media criticism trends, and this is why i can't really stand it or just passively ignoring it the way i do with most other inconsequential discourse. like it's genuinely upsetting seeing almost every single tumblr user, most of whom should know better, patting themselves in the back for their inability to read things in a way that doesn't feed into preexisting cultural hostilities in fan spaces.