#if it's old EU canon it's wrong

[askshivanulegacy]

^^^^ This.

I can't emphasize enough that if it isn't published, it isn't canon.

The experience of any piece of artwork, writing included, is inherent exclusively to YOUR interaction with that work. It's about what YOU find in it. It's about what YOU think it says.

If you're going to the author for anything deeper than clarifying a simple point, whatever you're gonna get back is non-canon. At best, you'll receive what THEY think about the work, but the only thing that matters is what YOU think. If they failed to publish their ideas in that work, those ideas might as well not exist. Most people aren't going out of their way to consult with the author to get the secret Part 2 of the story, or to dig up little niche interviews. The story is in the book or it's not there at all.

This is a huge problem in fandom, where people are raising the creators to godlike levels so they can exist or die based on what the creator says.

Star Wars is just one obvious example. Massive sections of the fandom quote every minor thing George Lucas ever said in the most obscure forums in order to form their basic understanding of the universe ... and these things are not written or published anywhere. And then they can't handle when people quote from the real material instead of some other producer's report of what this guy said.

Lucas is not a god, and what he says about Star Wars doesn't matter. It's fun from, like, a concept art perspective. But the concept art is not the finished product, and if you're harping over his quotes as "evidence" to shoot down things drawn from published work, you're wrong.

You HAVE to understand that the author's interpretation, unwritten and unpublished, is no better than yours ... or anyone else's. Stop using someone else to tell you what to think, and stop putting yourself and your special little personal interpretation on a pedestal above other people trying to enjoy things too. What you have is a headcanon. It's nothing more official than that.

If you don't like the published work as it stands, too bad. That's your problem. The published work isn't going away or becoming invalidated because you think one little interview said so.

ALSO if the creator has some stupid opinion on something or has done something stupid, it has nothing to do with their published work and doesn't invalidate any of it. Someone's enjoyment of media doesn't make any statement about whether they support an author. That's a logical fallacy to think so.

Social media as a whole desperately needs to stop their invasive parasocial obsession with authors and creators. You're all fanatical followers even of the people you hate, which is hilarious. You live, breathe, die, and hang upon every word that even your most detested creator says. You talk about other people letting go, yet there you are still obsessing over their every word.

The irony is incredible.

Of course, be a hate!fan if you want to. That's up to you and your enjoyment(???) of life. But stop attacking other people living perfectly normal lives who are not obsessing over the Entertainment Weekly drama of creators. The media people enjoy is not a reflection of their character or personal beliefs. There's no exception. If you think there is, then boy do I have news for you about your favorite ships, tropes, and kinks.

Folks act like "maybe the author isn't the final authority about what their work means" is some wanky post-modern nonsense and not a simple recognition that a lot of authors are perfectly prepared to bullshit about their own work. Like, leaving big-name popular media aside, I have personally encountered authors being actively disingenuous about their own work for all of the following reasons:

A true answer wouldn't fit the image they've cultivated.

They've decided they like the explanation the readers/viewers have come up with better than what they actually had in mind.

Something that was originally intended as a standalone work ended up growing into a franchise or series, and now they're pretending that was the plan all along for some reason.

They don't want to admit that the bit you're asking about is genuinely just a plot hole.

The real answer gets into some shit they don't care to discuss, so they've prepared a cover story to explain away the parts they don't want to talk about.

Their politics have changed since they wrote it, but they don't want to acknowledge that, so they're constantly trying to re-interpret everything they've ever written to be perfectly consistent with whatever their positions are this week.

They wrote it decades ago and they honestly don't remember what they were thinking at the time, so they're just making shit up; sometimes they also don't remember what shit they made up the last time, so the answer is different every time they're asked.

The work in question is at least partly autobiographical and they can't tell the truth without confessing to a crime in the process.

Most of the good bits are plagiarised and they don't really understand it themselves.

They're lying to you on purpose, for evil reasons.

[false-anomaly]

Sometimes I think about the first Doctor pre An Unearthly Child and I'm like. Okay so he had dubious looming/parentage, slept in a barn most of his childhood, killed a boy with a rock, killed two of his friends in an endless toy dimension after having a breakdown over a flower, got expelled, got married to a woman older than his kithriarch, passed his exams (finally) on the third try, had 13 kids (somehow???), fell out with every single one of his ex best friends, did something bad enough that the president ordered his own brother to assassinate both him and his granddaughter and he ended up running away to keep her safe. And also one of his companions from like 1000 years in the future was there and its implied that the universal concepts premeditated the whole thing but whatever. And it all happened within like 300 years.

All I'm saying is its no wonder he kidnapped Barbra and Ian if that's what we're working with

[cringecompanionapologist]

I Swear I Thought of This Months Ago: Different Doctors in Midnight

The thing with Midnight is that shit goes wrong because it's a companion-lite episode. The two people the Midnight Entity singled out to possess where the two people traveling alone. They were easy to isolate from the group. If the Doctor's not traveling alone here, and there's this human who came in with him just going along with whatever he's doing, it's going to seem less suspicious. So, what would happen to any Doctor in Midnight is based more on their companions than the Doctor. Donna took the day off of adventuring to enjoy the spa. Not all companions would do that. First Doctor: He may get on everyone's nerves, but he's going to have a granddaughter with him and people will judge him less harshly because he has a family. You've got a couple with their teenage son there. They see an old grandpa with a granddaughter the same age as their son, they're going to see him as someone like them. As for the granddaughters, Susan wouldn't want to leave her grandfather and Vicki canonically is more interested in adventures than relaxation. I'm less sure about Dodo, because nobody is sure about Dodo. She's a wild card.

Second Doctor: A group of people in a small space menaced by a monster? Might as well be a base under siege. He's in his element here. He also tends to be better at understanding human nature than most Doctors, so even if he was alone, he might not end up quite so isolated. And he wouldn't be alone. Out of a combination of loyalty and discomfort with spa environments, Jamie would definitely be with him.

Third Doctor: Following the Doctor around on his adventures is literally what Jo was hired to do. She'll be the one telling everyone that the Doctor is an expert on basically everything and she trusts him so they should too. If they try to throw him out she'll try to either take his place or go with him and nobody will want to hurt her. Nobody wants to hurt Jo. Even the Master didn't want to hurt Jo.

Fourth Doctor: When Four shows up somewhere, being weird, acting like he owns the place, and having way too much fun in a crisis, people tend to sort of roll with it. It's a superpower he has. But, if we want to turn the superpower off, we've sort of got three eras to consider. Sarah Jane would probably follow the Doctor, since she's still a holdover from Three's "companions are literally the Doctor's assistants" era. Leela would not understand the appeal of a spa and would threaten people into listening to the Doctor. As for Romana...Okay, we've got another Time Lord. I actually don't know. She'll probably go with him and might have slightly more luck with the locals.

Fifth Doctor: Really depends on the TARDIS team. Tegan's going to take the goddamn spa day and will talk Nyssa into going with her if she's around. If it's just Nyssa, she'll go with the Doctor and everyone loves Nyssa, so everything will be fine. Turlough is going to enjoy a pleasant day off. He can relax, do a bit of sketching, and not have to deal with yet another traumatic incident. Adric would not understand the idea of a spa, call it stupid, get into a fight with Tegan, and if he wasn't going with the Doctor before this, the Doctor would insist purely to separate the two and restore order. Adric has no social skills, so he wouldn't exactly make the Doctor look better, but like with One and his various granddaughter companions, the family on the train would be more comfortable with a family man.

Sixth Doctor: The classic Doctors have done well so far but Six is probably fucked. Peri would probably like a day off from him and the violent shit that happens around him. Mel might try to get him to stay at the spa for health purposes. I don't know the EU well, but Evelyn might have a chance of coming along and getting him to behave, but no promises for anyone else.

Seventh Doctor: Of course Ace is there. Yet another Doctor passes as a family man and it's easy.

Eighth Doctor: I don't know the EU well and Eight is the Whoops All EU Doctor, but he seems to pick up companions that would follow him around here, being all human and convincing the humans not to bully him. But, considering Eight's luck, they'd probably try to throw him out of the train anyway and he'd end up traumatized again.

Ninth Doctor: Might actually consider just spending the day at the spa, but if he gets bored and goes on an adventure, Rose probably gonna follow him. The day is saved with the Power of Love or something.

Eleventh Doctor: Amy wants to go with the Doctor despite Rory's protests. There's a lot of bickering but they get out fine.

Twelfth Doctor: Clara is his carer who cares so he doesn't have to, so preventing Midnight incidents is sort of what she's there for. For Bill, this would be an educational experience. Twelve gets on everybody's nerves a bit, and he gives a speech about how stupid everyone's being, which doesn't actually help, and he'll probably end up getting punched in the face, but not thrown out of the train.

Thirteenth Doctor: She tells her companions to just enjoy themselves and wanders off alone. If they insist on following her, and Yaz probably would, we're fine. If she successfully ditches her companions, she's in trouble. She'll openly admit to being socially awkward, but I'm not sure if that would actually help in this situation.

Fourteenth Doctor: He's retired. He's probably staying with Donna. If not, everything mainly goes the same as it does with Ten, but it feels more cruel.

Fifteenth Doctor: Ruby would go with him and he's actually pretty good with people anyway. I'm guessing the Fourteen remembered being Ten and regenerated into someone unlikely to be thrown out of a train on a death planet just in case.

[high-mackrels-musings]

In Defense of Ki-Adi Mundi … Again

Look at that, one of my favorite Jedi from legends is relevant again … for all the wrong reasons. But regardless I’ll take any chance I can to talk about my favorite Cerean.

With that said I’ll just say two things with regards to the acolyte and Mundi, I’ve watched two episodes and have little interest to watch anymore, canon isn’t my cup of tea, if you enjoy it good for you, Star Wars is a big enough fandom that both old EU and canon fans can enjoy their respective parts of it. And please understand that Ki-Adi Mundi of legends is not the same as canon, unfortunately people are woefully ignorant of who he was in canon.

With all that let me go ahead and repost one of my old posts from reddit where I defend the now seemingly popular Ki-Adi Mundi. Original post found here.

Introudction:

In recent days it has become quite common to bash the jedi for their perceived arrogance, hypocrisy, and coldness. Seemingly a few jedi are always quick to be singled out for their actions Mace Windu is directed plenty of ire for his role in ousting Ahsoka, as is Shaak Ti for her inaction in the clone chips, and Luminara for her response towards the death of the Martez sisters’ parents. However, I shall be focusing solely on one whom has recently been getting a lot of attention with (reddit posts like these), (articles like these), and ( videos like these).

This is a horrible video, please don’t watch this.

It seems apparent to many that Ki-Adi Mundi deserved his death and that he is a prime example for the Jedi losing their way. However, I felt it necessary to attempt to put things into some perspectives. Not only because I feel people are taking things heavily out of context, but also Ki-Adi represents one of the best Jedi Masters of his era in my opinion.

Common Criticisms:

Mundi’s denial of the Sith Existence (The Phantom Menace):

One of first instances that many will bring up will be the hubris that Mundi’s quick denial that the sith might have returned as Qui-Gon reported to the council. While it is true that Mundi was perhaps just a little too quick to judge. However, one needs to consider the viewpoint of his and the rest of the council. As he states, the Sith are believed to have been extinct for a millennia, following the supposed death of Darth Bane in Darth Bane: Rule of Two. But while the Sith had believed to be extinct there were plenty of examples of Dark Jedi and other Dark Side users well into the clone wars, as exhibited in the stages before the Clone Wars such as Aurra Sing and Komari Vosa, and before The Phantom Menace as seen by Qui-Gon’s own former apprentice Xanatos.

Red lightsaber, familiar in the Jedi arts, but not a Sith.

Thus, to the Jedi on the council it would have made much more sense that Qui-Gon had been attacked by a possible fallen Jedi, rather than a long believed to be dead group.

While Mundi was at times sure of himself, this is not such an example that can be used to discredit him. Rather what we can see here is an example of the arrogance of Qui-Gon to always listen to his first instinct. The Jedi Council rightfully so declares that such a matter should be looked into more closely with Mace Windu stating, “We will use all our resources to look into the matter more closely.” Of course, it looks bad in hindsight, but as viewers we have more information than the characters on the screen.

Mundi’s defense of Count Dooku (Attack of the Clones):

In Attack of the Clones following a failed assassination, Padme is quick to bring up the name of Count Dooku for whom might be responsible for the attempt on her life. This is quickly followed by the Cerean master’s words, “He’s a political idealist not a murderer.” It is backed up by the words of Mace who describes him as being a former jedi. One needs to remember the context of this. Dooku while having left the Jedi Order, did so amicably as seen by his statement when leaving the Jedi as found in Jedi VS. Sith The Essential Guide to the Force where he states:

It is my plan to return to Serenno and serve my people as a philanthropist. It is my last request as a Jedi Master that you Respect my decision, as well as my privacy. Good-bye old friends, and may the Force be with you.

Further as seen in the deleted scene Jocasta Nu states, “He disappeared for nine or ten years and reemerged as the leader of the separatist movement.” Dooku thus is thought of as only being a political leader, which would fit the description of him in the Revenge of the Sith novelization, where he is described in the common consciousness as:

The political heart of the Separatist Confederacy, Count Dooku, is known for his integrity, his principled stand against what he sees as corruption in the Senate. Though they believe he’s wrong, many respect him for the courage of his mistaken convictions.

Thus, this viewpoint by both Ki-Adi Mundi and Mace Windu is well supported in universe. They have yet to see any reason for such a quick accusation that Padme makes, instead they must stand behind the evidence at hand, that being that the attempt on her life was that of spice miners as intelligence pointed. It should be kept in context that Dooku was still seen at this time, by the Jedi at least, as a good friend who had simply become disillusioned by the Jedi and the Republic.

Ahsoka’s Trial (The Clone Wars Season Five):

Perhaps one of the most spoken criticisms against Mundi, is his role in expelling Ahsoka from the Jedi Order. With Ahsoka being a well-beloved character of the fanbase, it’s no wonder everyone would come to her defense against what most would consider an unfair treatment of a fan favorite. Yet, should one look at the evidence that was available to the character’s it is not so cut and dry. Indeed, should one look at this without any outside insight they would have come to such similar conclusions.

Indeed, the case against Ahsoka was much stronger than some might very well remember. In the second episode of the arc The Jedi Who Knew too Much the murder of Letta, the one responsible for the explosion, was caught on camera. The visual for anyone would have been obvious. Ahsoka is seen holding out her hands while Letta floats in the air visibly running out of air. This is just the first piece of damning evidence. Further there is the statement that Letta makes in plain earshot of the clone commander to Ahsoka, “I was told if I ever needed help you were the Jedi to contact,” further implementing Ahsoka into the role of mastermind of the temple bombing. In this same episode Ahsoka is let out of prison, though to anyone apart from the audience it appears that she has fled, along with reportedly killing a few clones. And then there is Ahsoka being spotted, by Anakin nonetheless, with Asajj Ventress, a known separatist and war criminal. Finally, when Ahsoka is captured by the clone and Jedi team, she is found next to more explosive nano droids. All this culminates in showing Ahsoka in the worst possible light.

Furthering the matter is the fact that this was no longer a Jedi Matter that could be investigated internally. As Admiral Tarkin explains to Anakin and Ashoka in *The Jedi Who Knew Too Much* Letta was moved because the matter was now in the hands of the military, “Clones were killed, which makes this a military matter.” A statement Anakin agrees with. And as mentioned in the same episode, Palpatine had made sure to remove the Jedi from such military matters. It further complicates the matter. And thus, one may see that the Jedi had little choice but to expel Ahsoka. Not only did all the evidence point to her. But they simply were not in a position to set up their own trial.

Further it should be noted that Mundi had very little involvement in the decision to expel Ahsoka other than simply voting, a vote that was split according to Yoda in the final episode of the arc stating, “Reached a decision the council has, though not in total agreement are we.” Indeed, Mundi himself never actually voices an accusation against Ahsoka. In To Catch a Jedi he simply asks Anakin if there was any chance to stop Ahsoka. And in The Wrong Jedi he merely asks that everyone consider that the evidence points to Ahsoka being the mastermind behind the attack, which is correct. Perhaps why everyone holds it against him is that he is the one who reads to Ahsoka what the consequences are for her being expelled from the order are. Regardless Mundi himself is not solely at fault for Ahsoka’s leaving of the order. Nor, was it outlandish for Ahsoka to be accused of said crime, as all there was strong evidence against her.

But what about the droid attack on the Wookie’s (Revenge of the Sith)

It seems a bit odd that this is constantly brought up as a point as to why the Mundi was an idiot. The Council were the military command of the republic. It was their duty to plan out the movements of the republic army, and where best to send them. While the scene first begins with Anakin’s appointment to the council, it quickly shifts to discussion about military matters, with Mundi informing the council that they do not know where General Grievous is. This prompts Obi-Wan to mention how little ships they have to spare. Naturally with how thin they are spread; Mundi asks what they will do about Kashyyk. As should be known Yoda volunteers to go to the aid of the Wookiees, stating, “Good relations with the Wookie’s I have.”

Some might see this as Mundi indirectly helping Palpatine’s plan. However, it should be noted that Obi-Wan is not exaggerating. Kashyyk really is a system that the Republic could simply not be allowed to lose. As noted in the Starwars.com encyclopedia, “Kashyyyk was of prime strategic importance, serving as a major navigational point for the entire southwestern quadrant of the galaxy.” There were also several oil refineries located on the planet which the confederacy wanted to take control of. One can also make an argument for the Humanitarian reasons to get involved. The Wookiee’s had always been loyal to the republic and were a group often targeted for slavery and hunted down. They were a marginalized group, and thus it makes sense for why Ki-Adi would want to support the Wookiee’s.

And it should be noted that Yoda himself volunteered in his desire to go and aid the Wookies, as he states he had very good relations. And it makes sense that he would want to go, and help them. The Jedi Council thus made perhaps the best decision that they could in sending not only their most experienced Jedi, but one who would have had the trust of the natives.

Common Misconceptions:

Mundi did not love or care for his family:

One of the most notable differences between Mundi and most Jedi of his time was that he had a family. As Cerean’s generally had a low birth rate, and because males were outnumbered one to twenty per *The New Essential Guide to Alien Species.*Thus, Mundi was granted a special exemption from this rule taking on one bond wife and four honor wives. Between them Mundi had seven daughters. He would spend much of his time with them as he was the appointed Jedi watchman of the sector which Cerea formed a part of. Strangely one of most common misconceptions is that Mundi somehow did not care for them.

However, in Star Wars: Prelude to Rebellion one can see quite the opposite in fact. In Part 1 we see him openly comfort his honor wife Mawin, after their daughter has run away. And he states with regard to his bond wife Shea the narration states:

”Four honor wives have given him seven daughters. He loves them all, but his heart longs for a son. He can hide his disappointment from the others. But from Shea, if she should bear him another girl? No, not from Shea. He can hide nothing from her.”

This quote shows two things. It demonstrates for us the love that Ki-Adi Mundi actually had for his family. And that he loved his bond wife Shea so much he could not bare to let her see any semblance of disappointment in his eyes. This shows the actual empathy of Mundi. And in Part 5 of the comic, we again see him demonstrating his fatherly love towards his daughter Sylvn saying, “He had not realized until she was brought so close, and then wrenched so cruelly away. How much he loved his daughter.”

Mundi demonstrates in these early comics just how much he loves his family. And indeed, it goes contrary to the popular opinion that Mundi somehow did not care for his family.

Mundi was cold and lacked empathy.

Mundi has also been characterized as lacking empathy or feelings for others. Indeed, one of the most common examples of why Mundi is a prime example of everything bad with the Jedi of the Rise of the Empire era. Mostly I have seen people point to one scene in Star Wars: Republic 62 where following the supposed death of Obi-Wan Kenobi, Mundi relates to Anakin how he felt about the death of his family saying, “I cared for them, but tried to remain unattached.” I have seen some point to this being proof that Mundi did not care for the death of others. One can get into a debate about the Jedi and their views on death, however as noted above, Mundi absolutely cared for his family. And his advice was to tell Anakin that while death is hard one can move on from it.

Further we have evidence of how deeply Mundi cared for the deaths of other sentient beings as seen in Star Wars Clone Wars Adventures Volume 6 we see Mundi mediating under dripping water. His exact words as to why he does this are: “It helps my meditation in these dark days. Each drop reminds me of every life that has been lost.” This shows us once more how much Mundi felt empathy for the death of every single life that had been lost.

In the same comic, Mundi shows concern for the life of the young Jedi Knight Rivi-Anu who runs to try to save the lives of clones and Jedi. Mundi sees her goal of stopping a crash landing Venator from crashing knows that she is trying to save them all, following her death Mundi states, “Greater love has no being than to lay down their life for a friend. Rivi-Anu is now one with the living force. It will make me proud to one day join her.” Mundi shows once more how much the death of others matters to him when he thinks of Rivi-Anu while mediating under dripping water once matter.

These two examples demonstrate that Mundi was far from a cold unfeeling Jedi some portray him as. While it is true Mundi did not stop to weep at the death of everyone, he undoubtedly felt every death touch his heart. His attempts at teaching Anakin the difference between mourning and holding onto these feelings is evident. And indeed we see that Mundi concentrated on the death of his fellow Jedi.

Conclusion

While it is entirely possible that one may have feelings towards Mundi, still perhaps you may feel he was incompetent or the single embodiment of everything wrong with the jedi. I would hope that this little essay does a decent job of trying to correct some of the possible misconceptions that have faced the Cerean Master. I believe it’s important to contextualize many of these criticisms. To try to make one see things from the perspective of the character, and indeed to provide direct quotes from many of his most famous stories. Ki-Adi Mundi is a character I grew up with falling in love with his stories in early comic run.

I certainly believe that Mundi was a very noble Jedi holding up the ideals of one. Growing from a young arrogant Jedi Knight. Into an introspective master. Who after losing every one of his daughters and wives still remained on the Jedi path. Who did his best to pass on wisdom to the young Jedi who would follow him. And who wanted nothing more than to preserve the republic all the way to the end. Hopefully putting some context into such claims can quell the ire driven against one of my favorite characters in Star Wars.

[cicerenella]

on that note- how do you view gerita/itager btw? would love to hear more about it!🇮🇹🇩🇪

i was waiting for a pairing ask! I actually really like gerita/itager, but I see it in a way that's just a little bit different from the canon...

to start, feli is obviously older than ludwig. i like to think that when germany was still a teen he looked at italy with something resembling...admiration? because think about it! this guy represented the duchy of tuscany, the republic of venice... secular and powerful kingdoms. he probably didn't realize that he was having a small crush on him. feli, on the other hand, didn't pay much attention to young lud.

gerita didn't always have the relationship they have now. during both world wars it was er...difficult, if you bring in consideration all what happened. so it was only after the establishment of the European Union that they started to actually form an healthy relationship.

that and also the fact that I headcanon italy being a tad noncommittal in his romantic relationships after the death of HRE (for context, I dont consider chibitalia a thing, so they were both adults). so at the start, this rubbed ludwig off in the wrong way an awful lot, since he is on the other hand very serious about this type of stuff. it was rocky lol.

but besides all that, today is all good! and they're not just dating, but also colleagues? they work an awful lot together, since yknow they're North Italy and Germany. EU's economy is in their hands!

so it's very cute when they finally have a moment together far from meeting rooms. feli brings out the more "laid back" side of ludwig, while ludwig brings that sense of stability that I think feli needs.

on another note, lud absolutely wakes feli up at 6 am to take him trekking in god knows where. he literally has to rip him out of the covers or something. for him it is peak quality time.

and speaking of quality time...it is actually ludwig's preferred love language along with acts of service! he isn't the best when it comes to expressing his emotions, and he's a bit stiff when it comes to physical contact. but you bet this man runs to feli's side if he needs anything, even the simplest things.

on the other side, feli's love languages are physical touch and quality time (as well)!! he's awfully coddly and will literally force ludwig to stay in bed for like...15 more minutes because he doesn't function during the day without cuddles.

just imagine these two otherwise workaholic men being awfully sweet with eachother first thing in the morning ♡♡

but don't think these two don't tease eachother restlessly! feli is a cocky bastard and ludwig easily flustered after all eheh.

the last anon said something about lud calling feli "old man" and that is something I absolutely can envision happening. ludwig might be physically more "imponent" but feli has a more mature appearance to him.

and you know after that, feli is gonna tease him back even harder, he's a bastard in that. cockiness runs in the family at this point LMAO

a genius idea just sparked in my brain and I also remember that it is canon that they cook together?? anyways, yea, they always cook together with feli teaching lud how to prepare traditional Italian (north) dishes. and again, lud teaching feli how to bake, since headcanon that he really enjoys baking.

uuuh yeah, this turned out as more as if general headcanons but we need more gerita anyways top tier ship🫶🫶

[lightfromandromeda]

begging every doctor who fan that has only watched the revival (2005-present) to pls pls pls check out the classic show and/or the expanded universe (books, audios, comics, theres SO MUCH)

the original show is very fun with goofy costumes and practical effects on a lame ass budget (hell yeah) and great characters. it IS an old british show so beware of some offensive out of date things

and my god i could talk for a week straight about the expanded universe. the EU goes into basically every doctor, master, other timelords and most companions and sometimes further into side characters. its all rich with crazy plots and characterization that u dont get in either show its so fucking delicious. hell so many of the books are explicitly queer. in the EDAs (Eighth Doctor Adventure books) there are two bi companions, an aroace person who you could also argue is agender, and they hav multiple discussions of the doctors gender and how he isnt a man. one of the bi companions (a dude) falls in love with the doctor.

hell the EU goes into modern who stuff too. there are audios with 10 and donna having adventures. same with 10 and rose. rose has her own series about her dimension hopping with her dimension canon where shes trying to find the doctor in series 4. river song has a huge series called the diary of river song which you can guess what its about. martha has her own stories about her year of walking the earth. if you like torchwood theres a torchwood audio series.... and books.

seriously, i watched nuwho first (which i do love dont get me wrong) but after watching the original show and then getting into EU stuff, the regular show feels so barebones most of the time...... crumbs....

[short-wooloo]

Since mando s3 comes out tomorrow, it's probably a good time to remind y'all that none of the legends stuff is canon to it.

Now you'd think the fact that these works don't apply to a TV show made years after they were officially declared non canon (not that they canon to the movies/tcw anyways) would be simple to grasp, but no, I still see constant mention of Jaster the mandalore, the true mandalorians, the war between the true/new/death watch mandos, etc etc in context of the Mandalorian

Speaking of which

Factions:

There are only two major mandalorian factions in canon, the death watch and New Mandalorians, the true mandalorians are not a faction, because they're legends, they do not exist in Lucas SW, their source means they do not apply to didney SW/didney eu, and they are not mentioned in canon/canon eu, ergo they do not exist

And the NM/DW were not rival factions (and honestly calling them "factions" is a bit of a misnomer, they'd be better described as coalitions since they themselves are compromised of a number of groups/factions) in the Civil War, the New Mandalorians existed during the war, but they weren't so much a faction fighting in the war as they were a political reform movement born in respone TO it, the war was largely fought between different clans/alliances of clans for control/power, the New Mandalorians' rise to power came not from conquest, but from a movement of Mandalorian people and groups (including warrior clans) sick of the self destructive, authoritarian, violent old ways, and wanting change, would rally around Satine Kryze

The death watch is a reactionary regressive movement of mando conservatives angry that they lost the war and appalled that they can't be violent murderers anymore who determine who's in charge by fighting to the death, and they insist that this adherence to the "old ways" makes them "real mandalorians"

And that brings me to something else

What makes someone a "true mandalorian" in canon?

As I said, the "true mandalorian" faction does not exist in canon, but you will still here different mandos throw around the phrase(s) "true/real mandalorian", this is a case of the "no true scotsman" fallacy, every mandalorian considers themselves/their group as being the "right" way to be a mandalorian and anyone who doesn't follow that way is wrong and ergo is not a mandalorian, and the only ones who don't buy into this nonsense are the New Mandalorians because they're the only adults in the room and realize it's all really stupid

And lastly we have Jaster, much like with the broader history of mandalorians, I see people attributing Jaster's legends biography to his canon incarnation, when-as we have already established-legends would have no bearing on canon, because they are two different universes (and also Jaster's only "appearance" is in a canon show, made years after the legends stuff was pushed aside)

The canon facts of Jaster are:

He exists

He's Jango's adopted father

That's it, he doesn't even appear in person or is mentioned by name, his "appearance" and existence in canon is down to a quick Easter egg in another language

Now elements of his legends story could become canon, but I want to stress, THAT WOULD NOT MAKE THE LEGENDS SOURCES CANON, because that's another thing I notice, "new SW content makes a nod to or recanonizes something from legends? Fans start thinking that makes a legends thing canon", and that's not how it works, things from legends can be brought over, but they are being/will be retold in a new way for canon, the version made for canon is the canon version

[roselightfairy]

This is rambling and may not have a point in the end, but one thing that I think about a lot in relation to Qui-Gon's portrayal in old and new canon is the different approaches to him as a teacher.

Qui-Gon's identity as a teacher is probably the most important and significant thing about him, regardless of which canon you're looking at - because that's what he's put into the story to be. It's the archetype he fits into, but it's also the thing that shapes his most significant relationships in the movies - and it's the tantalizing void left behind when he dies: what he may or may not have left unfinished with Obi-Wan, what he could or could not have been with Anakin. And it's explained as the reason any of the other characters are able to become Force ghosts at all - because he taught them. It's also the reason I'm obsessed with him, but let's not focus on that. As such, it makes sense that that's the part of his identity that most canonical work about him would focus on.

I have long since outed myself as a New Star Wars Fan with no authorial loyalty except to Claudia Gray, so I can't provide any in-depth analysis of the Legends/EU content or timeline; I only know it from fanon. But I'm not really thinking as much about what kind of a teacher he is portrayed as, or his various student-related traumas, as I am about his relationship to teaching - in the sense of how much of his life he has devoted to it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that in the EU timeline, teaching is something he's been doing almost as long as he's been a Jedi Knight? Obi-Wan is his third apprentice in that, and it seems like he's been doing it for a significant portion of his life. (He is also older in that canon, but then, he'd have to be in order to fit that all in; apprenticeships are not generally short. Even if they're not complete.) In Master and Apprentice, though, Obi-Wan is his first apprentice, and he took him on when he was 36. Which is . . . I mean, I know Obi-Wan was young when he took on Anakin, but this does mean that Qui-Gon waited at least ten years and possibly more into his knighthood before taking on a student. I don't know enough about what the Jedi trajectory tends to be with this sort of thing, but most of our focus characters in the media I've seen take apprentices pretty young. Both Anakin and Obi-Wan, of course; Mace Windu is either the same age as or younger than Qui-Gon and Depa is a Council member; Quinlan is Obi-Wan's contemporary and trained Aayla, who is Anakin's generation. So it seems like it might be either unusual or at least very deliberate to wait that length of time before taking on a student.

But in both universes, teaching is clearly something Qui-Gon cares deeply about, wants to do well, and has bound up a lot of his self into. So I think it's pretty interesting to look at the different trajectories that imagine him where he is in TPM - the older canon, which sort of portrays him as A Teacher, in that it's almost his lifelong calling. (Even when he tries to get out of it, it keeps coming back to him!) In new canon, though, it feels a lot more like a very deliberate choice - like he must have made the call, at age 36, that now was the right time and this the right person to try with. Which means that his lessons would have been learned alongside Obi-Wan but with an element of almost . . . self-determination? I don't mean to suggest that teaching young isn't also a deliberate choice, but it feels like EU Qui-Gon tended often to fall into teaching, while new canon Qui-Gon went into it very intentionally at a specific point in his life. Which might suggest new ways of understanding how he related to Anakin - to having this new student kind of fall into his life. What kind of deliberation was going on in his mind among all of that? If Anakin would have been his fourth apprentice, it feels more like a practiced pattern of behavior that is almost instinctive; if Anakin would have been his second, it feels - different. A little more abrupt, a little more of a break in a pattern - or maybe just an indication of an incredibly strong feeling.

Anyway, I told you I had no point to this, no real conclusion, but I love him and I love thinking about him and his relationship to teaching, so here are my rambling thoughts, if they are interesting to anyone!

[cienie-isengardu]

I see a lot in fics this portrayal of stormtroopers/501st as being intensely loyal to Vader, sometimes even over the Empire. Is that really true in canon/Legends? I know Lords of the Sith referenced this, but otherwise I haven't read enough of the EU to confirm how much of this is just fanon. I'm assuming you know bc of your Vader's Men tag lol

The intensive stormtrooper training is conditioning people to be loyal to Empire and so obedience to Vader, as the one of highest imperial commanders is a natural order of the things but yes, there are stories and tie-in materials that strongly suggest or outright says that certain stormtroopers and imperial officers in fact admire Darth Vader and their loyalty run beyond the usual level of allegiance required from imperial soldiers. So no, this portrait in fanwork is not solely invention of fans as it has a solid ground in source materials although it should be taken into account that: 

a) the level of personal loyalty will vary from one character to another  

b) there are not many stories in which imperial soldiers are forced to choose between Vader and the Emperor so it is really hard to predict if those people are in fact more loyal to Vader as a person than to the Empire(Palpatine) as a whole. When it comes to imperial army, in most cases Vader and the Empire/Palpatine are seen as inseparable as Vader is the epitome of loyalty to Empire to most Imperials (which makes sense, as Vader usually rely on bounty hunters or his vast different sort of agents if his personal goals are against Palpatine’s will and the discretion is needed. Otherwise he is commanding troopers to kill/destroy whoever incur his anger and then deals with his master’s displeasure). 

The second point is especially vital in regard to imperials like admiral Piett that in general is acknowledged in sources as one of officers that Vader truly respects but through the decades Firmus sadly didn’t get that much focus as character to give us absolute certainty of his allegiance beyond the general idea of ���serving the Empire”. Which makes it hard to make an objective analysis if Piett was forced to choose, would he betray the Empire out of loyalty to Vader or not. A scenario that has been a common thing in fanwork for years. Which is why I’m bringing Piett to illustrate that fans’ interpretation of imperial characters and their loyalty to Vader may be exaggerated beyond what sources provided. Which doesn’t necessarily mean it is a wrong assumption but rather that focus of tie-in materials is pretty much limited when it comes to Imperials, especially those of Old Trilogy or stormtroopers in general.

At the same time, Vader was introduced from the start as someone that has a better working relationship with common troopers and the imperial officers serving directly under him than with high-ranking Imperials. There is no need to look further than A New Hope to see the difference between how the Sith Lord acts around his men and Admiral Motti (or later in The Empire Strikes Back, how he treats Admiral Ozzel or Captain Needa). It shows up in his speech patterns, like “There'll be no one to stop us this time” or “We’ll have to destroy them ship to ship” when he is talking to his men (as he is including himself and his men in the “us/we”) but it is for sure a me vs you talk with Motti during a meeting on Death Star. When questioned by Commander Daine Jir* Vader is willing to explain himself and shows zero anger at the man for not obeying at once 

while having no second thought about force-choking admiral Motti. Through the Original Trilogy, Vader did not threaten common imperial troopers but he did not have any reservations about killing the officers if they failed him. What is even more important, Vader is one of few high-ranking imperials that takes an active part in widely understood “warzone”, be it the search of stolen Death Star’s plans or taking part in space battle to protect the imperial station or taking over rebel Echo Base on Hoth - and tie-in material even claims that Vader flying his own fighter into battle(s) incurs the wrath of high officers,which implies the Dark Lord of the Sith’s active part during fight breaks imperial norms.

 This is the ground on which I believe was built the idea that stormtroopers may feel a great respect and even personal loyalty for Vader - and to be honest, from the perspective of common soldiers it makes perfect sense. Vader is the right-hand man of Emperor Palpatine, a man that wields a mystic power and runs the Empire and who for sure does not need to risk his life on the battlefield yet he is marching alongside stormtroopers into one battle after another, sometimes even saving said troopers in the process (x)(x)(x) while most high-ranking officers (especially those presented in the Old Trilogy) usually stay behind in the safety while soldiers die fighting. Also, quite often the sources provided examples in which Vader on purpose does not involve troopers accompanying him into fights as he prefers to face dangerous and personal foes/tasks alone (x)(x)(x)(x)("Go," Vader said to them. "The ship is lost." Most of them nodded, turned, and headed off immediately, but three of the stormtroopers remained. "Sir, we should accompany you to an escape pod." "Unnecessary," Vader said. "I'll find my own way. Now go. That's my order.", Lords or the Sith) which I suspect is another habit of Vader that common stormtroopers may interpret as specific sign of their commander’s care for their well-being - is it truth or not is up to debate of course, but whatever the reasoning, it really looks like Vader did not endanger the lives of soldiers unnecessarily and even could kill an officer that ordered the troops into an unwinnable scenario. Or like Ozzel did, lost the element of surprise for imperial invasion.

And really, the image of Vader leading troops or being surrounded by stormtroopers is one of the most common things in the Star Wars franchise that is included in films, comics, books, games and other tie-in materials. Considering what a powerhouse Vader is on his own, it is easy to imagine how his presence on battlefront raises morale of imperial soldiers or why it means so much to stormtroopers to know the Dark Lord of the Sith is there with them on battlefront.  

Another thing that adds a lot to common troopers’ perception of the Dark Lord is that Vader does not care for people’s place of origin, family or political connections or even species. Through the sources Vader favors skills, competence and loyalty above anything else. Which means that people born in Outer Rims or people for whatever reason not meeting the specific standards set by the military/political elite can easily get promoted under Vader’s wings if they prove themselves - be it on battlefront or thinking outside the box (x followed by x). And this especially was visible in older sources, when aliens, women and droids were part of a wide range of Vader’s agents despite the bias toward those groups within the Empire. So working with Vader often resulted with many benefits in the long run for those who managed to impress the Dark Lord. What is very important, as many promising troopers and officers that normally would be hold back by lack of proper connection or birthplace were hand-picked personally by the Dark Lord of the Sith, either for his 501st Legion or for general benefit of the Empire - what for many “lowly cogs in the imperial machine” literally means new possibilities opened up solely thanks to Vader and this probably adds a lot of weight to their personal loyalty. Serving under Vader could bring a person a chance for fast promotion (general Veers is the best example) but also provide protection (x)(x) or access to the best medical help even when said person couldn’t anymore serve the Dark Lord, as happened with Erv Lekauf:

Vader’s suit could withstand nearly every assault. But Lekauf, a man trained to react without pausing to debate, flung himself in front of him and took the brunt of the flame. He fell, gasping, as the clones closed in on the Dark Jedi and Vader burst apart their Force shields with pure focused rage. [A Two-Edged Sword]

and

“My granddad thought the world of him. When he got badly burned on a mission and had to be discharged from the Imperial Army, Lord Vader made sure he was taken care of for the rest of his life. Whatever some people say about Vader, monsters don't look out for lieutenants." [Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice]

As I mentioned before, a great number of people serving Vader were hand-picked personally by the Dark Lord of the Sith which includes his own 501st Legion - and that for sure increases the reason for personal loyalty of said soldiers. 

Members of the 501st are hand-picked by Lord Darth Vader from within the stormtrooper units. Battlefield promotions are awarded to those who earn his respect [The Imperial Handbook].

or 

Worse, walking into a local garrison or fleet anchorage meant taking whatever they had available, whether good and competent or lazy and useless. Picking out random stormtroopers was an even shakier proposition these days, given Vader’s habit of periodically combing through the ranks and transferring all the best and brightest into his personal 501st Legion. [Choices of one]

or

When Lieutenant Daine Jir first spoke out against one of Darth Vader’s suggestions, murmurs of “dead man walking” immediately followed. But instead of choking the life out of the Imperial officer, Vader promoted him to the rank of commander. 

Jir was one of few officers, along with Admiral Piett and Captain Janus Bonn, to earn Vader’s respect. The Dark Lord appreciated Jir’s brutal honesty, in contrast to the manipulative rhetoric of most Imperial lackeys. Jir, a competent and ruthless member of the 501st stormtrooper legion [...]

The New Canon also seems to follow this special bond that Vader has with some stormtroopers, as could be seen with sergeant Kreel (x) who was even gifted the Jedi lightsaber by the Dark Lord (though so far Kreel is also loyal to Palpatine… who has like zero idea or care who the stormtrooper is).

So to answer your question, yes, there are plenty of stormtroopers (or in general imperials) who greatly respect Darth Vader and in some cases this respect runs as deep as personal loyalty toward the Dark Lord of the Sith. And this specific bond between Vader and troopers can be traced through various source material, like:

For reasons that went beyond the armor and helmets, the imaging systems and boots, Vader felt more at home among the troopers than he did around other flesh-and-bloods.

And Appo and the rest of Vader's cadre of stormtroopers seemed to be at ease with their new superior. To them it was only reasonable that Vader wore a bodysuit and armor. Some had always wondered why the Jedi left themselves exposed, as if they had had something to prove by it. [Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader by James Luceno]

or

After Anakin Skywalker turned to the dark side, his 501st Legion clone troopers remained loyal to him. For their brutality and efficiency, they became known as “Vader’s fist”.

(And no, this has nothing to do with the chip-in-brain nonsense of TCW/New Canon)

(and here a fun fact! The Anakin/Vader's personal stormtrooper legion is named after fan organization 501st Legion that was introduced into canon thanks to Timothy Zahn and Lucasfilm, as a nod to fans and their great hand-made costumes and charity work! Which adds another layer why 501st Legion is always seen as the elite between elites and so important part of Anakin/Vader's legacy)

or

As the shuttle descended through Hockaleg’s atmosphere, Vader said, “I am curious about the details of your demotion.”

“It’s all on record, sir,” the trooper said, angling the shuttle toward the spaceport.

“I would prefer to hear it from you.”

“Permission to speak freely, sir?”

“Granted.”

The trooper cleared his throat.

“You are aware I’m a clone, sir?”

“Yes.”

“Well, twenty years ago, after Shadow Squadron was disbanded, I had a new commanding officer-a non-clone. When he ordered me to kill my gunner - who had been wounded in combat, but not mortally - I refused. And when my commanding officer tried to shoot me for refusing, I broke his jaw. I spent a year in solitary.”

Vader considered the details, then said, “What happened to the injured clone?”

“He recovered, although he was killed several months later during a bombing run.”

“Do you regret your actions?”

“No. sir. Everybody dies. I’m just glad I helped a friend live a bit longer.”

As the spaceport came into view, Vader said, “If you were to serve under my command, would you ever disobey an order?”

“Yes, sir, but only if it helped you live longer.”

Vader was stunned by the aged clone’s words and the implication that he might disobey one of his orders…or that he might consider the Sith Lord a friend. Before he could ask the clone for an explanation, the clone tested the comm and received a loud burst of static. [Vader Adrift]

or mentioned Erv Lerkauf

The assassins paused for a frantic reload.

“Lord Vader…” said Lekauf, but he was pinned flat by the Force, arms flailing.

“Stay down,” snapped Vader. […]

One man dropped instantly without his intervention. Vader lunged forward and sliced through two more, left-right. The fourth lost his arm and blaster in the same slicing movement and dropped to his knees, utterly silent, mouth open wide in frozen agony as he stared at the seared stump. Vader brought the lightsaber down across his neck. The hangar was silent now except for the sound of his own breath. He looked down at the back of the one man he hadn’t killed. The black tunic was still smoking a little.

“Fine shot, Lekauf,” said Vader. He released his Force pressure. “I told you to stay down.”

Lekauf got to his knees and holstered his blaster. “I never rose, my lord. I can fire from a prone position, though, and you made no mention of that.”

Lekauf stood up and went to him as if to check him for injury. It suddenly struck Vader that he was solid and a good height. And he was loyal enough to step in the line of fire, and then-defy him to cover his back.

Good man. At least one possible template, then. [In his Image]

and

""Me, too." Jacen found he enjoyed the company of 967. They all had the corporal's general optimism. "How long have you been in the army?"

"Since I graduated, sir. Four years."

"What made you sign up?"

Lekauf smiled, almost embarrassed. "My grandfather served under your grandfather in the Imperial Army, sir. He always talked about how Lord Vader put himself in the front line. Meant a lot to him, that did."

Jacen patted Lekauf's shoulder. It was humbling to see how loyalty could last generations. Whatever sins Anakin Skywalker had committed as Vader, there were still those who recognized his qualities as an inspirational commander. Jacen decided it might be safe to walk back in time and watch him again. [Legacy of the Force: Bloodlines]

or a nostalgia trip of retired stormtrooper:

Dark Lord told us it wasn’t our fault the Falcon got out from the Hoth blockade. Then he executed half the squad. But you could tell he was proud of us.

or

“Supreme confidence reigned in the heart of every crew member in this Imperial death squadron, especially among the personnel on the monstrous central Star Destroyer. But something also blazed within their souls. Fear - fear of merely the sound of the familiar heavy footsteps as they echoed through the enormous ship. Crew members dreaded these footfalls and shuddered whenever they were heard approaching, bringing their much feared, but much respected leader.” [The Empire Strikes Back]



or

I’ve heard that the regular officers hate him, but the Stormtrooper Corps almost worships him. [Lords of the Sith]



or

and

The Truest Duty by Christie Golden [From a Certain Point of View: The Empire Strikes Back]

And to be honest, this special stormtroopers’ admiration for Vader is not seen only in “serious” source material but also in humorous variations like Lego Star Wars Vader reading book to stormtroopers  or Droid Tales episode 5, in which C-3PO and Lando distract stormtroopers with a tale about Darth Vader (and how the Lord of the Sith saved rebellion on Endor) and just look at the troopers happily listening about their boss.

So in general, fans may sometimes exaggerate the intensivity of stormtroopers or in general imperial soldiers' loyalty toward Vader but this specific bond between Dark Lord of the Sith and common soldiers is grounded deeply in star wars lore.

[legitimatesatanspawn]

Star Wars EU question: what's going on in the creche?

Okay so I never watched the Clone Wars series and my knowledge of the EU is rather... scattershot. I read a good chunk of the Jedi Apprentice books as a kid (and its been a while). Obi Wan is treated like trash there, I swear. Like constantly facing Soap Opera level problems from around 13/14 years old right up until Qui gets killed off when he's around... 26?

Anyway. If anyone has read the Jedi Apprentice books, you know how Obi Wan was almost "aged out" of the Jedi Temple and got tossed to the Farm sidegroup instead of staying in the temple. This was actually part of a scheme by Yoda to get him paired up with his favorite grandpadawan Qui Gon for... uh... basically child-as-therapy. You can boo Yoda for this. I know I boo Yoda for this.

The reason why Obi Wan was nearly tossed was because of anger issues. Anger issues that were because he's a human kid in a stressful position knowing he's gonna be Too Old soon and he lives with a huge bully who keeps goading him into fights.

The bully is Bruck Chun by the way and he is salty about "Oafy Wan" and just...

So there's this wild theory I have as to why this sort of thing was allowed to happen in spite of the Creche masters having the Force on their side and should've been on the ball about the Baby Jedi in spite of narrative convenience making them ignore the bullying and be unable to see the truth.

The two main ideas: one/some of the Creche masters are at the tipping point of Falling from sheer stress, because let's face it young kids are HARD even if you have the best intentions and burnout is real and Force Sensitive kids would probably be both easier and harder. Or... the Sith plot that we vaguely saw revolving around hemming the Jedi in and manipulating the Senate to make things Actively Worse all around had a part in it.

If Creche Masters are known to be more likely to fall from constant stress then there'd be a better watch on the creches so unfortunately it's likely to be the Sith Plot. Which actually makes sense!

The Jedi have been purposefully or not reacted hard against being anything like their Sith counterparts in the wake of the Ruusan Reformation. Their Code while good in itself is imperfect and the way things have built up, there's a huge misunderstanding in how the Jedi are perceived versus how the Jedi are intended. The Senate limits what the Jedi can do and in some cases the Jedi are treated more like Space Attack Dog Cops.

But...

What if there was a subtle shift in how the Jedi babies and Initiates are treated because of the Sith Plan? It's not intentional on the Jedi's part as a whole but there's a slight bend to how the Baby Jedis are handled. Even in IRL bullies are given more leeway and bullied kids are judged harder but a Jedi should be able to tell who really started things and who's lying.

The arrogance, pride, anger issues, and even issues with self-confidence (some Knights/Masters might be less willing to take on someone who doesn't properly display their skills with the saber) cause more would-be knights to phase out of the Temple whether they are like Bruck or like Obi.

The would-be Padawans either find better lives outside of the Temple or they possibly become bitter. The ones who WANTED to be Jedi Knights but were seen as being bad or wrong or ill-fitting. The kids who become Padawans could be too good at hiding their negative feelings, some peacock about, and some of them are mostly good until they reach a tipping point and become Worse. (A canonical example of someone known to be a jackass but trusted until the reveal: Krell).

The colder Jedi and the ones who come off as douchebags and dicks feed into the cultural perception of Jedi as Aloof Asshole to be feared. We straight up see people in Coruscant react to "Jedi Business" in Episode 2 like cops: don't get closer, don't draw attention to yourself, the person getting their arm lopped off did something but you Don't Know and Don't Want To Know, and one Absolute Idiot just moments before tried to sell drugs to a Jedi only to get Force Mind Tricked "I don't want to sell you Death Sticks, I want to go home and rethink my life".

And then of course we get Episode 3 with the Jedi as "war mongering people" who fight in the "civil war" against Ex-Jedi Dooku only to get thrown under the bus by Sidious who claims that they tried to kill him and now the Galaxy will be safe from the threat they pose. 3 years could be enough to make a shift but... considering all the faff about the "grand sith plan" then it'd make more sense than it's been centuries of prep and getting everything Just So not only for taking over the galaxy but RUINING how the Jedi are seen and how the Jedi raise people trusted to them.

Deliberately sowing discord not merely among the various planets but also setting the Jedi up to Fall or be crushed no matter what happens? That'd definitely take generations of Sith to get right.

(Partially inspired by a discussion with @evilminji .)

[opinated-user]

I've seen people cite Aliana glassing a planet in TSR as en example of Lily writing dictators suffering no consequences for their actions and making it so their always in the right. Before I continue, I'm gonna preface this with I'm not defending LO or her writing choices.

IIRC, back when I still followed her on Tumblr, she had said the reason Aliana did that was because there was an outbreak of the Rakghoul plague, which is basically space zombies and is canon (prior to Disney wiping the EU clean but I digress). So Aliana glassing a planet over a Rakghoul plague outbreak is not unreasonable, if the plague had spread across the entire planet and infected a large majority of the population. However knowing LO part of me suspects this isn't what happened but I might be wrong.

In Knights of the Old Republic, there's a mission early on where you have to help a doctor on the planet Taris try to develop a either a cure or a vaccine against the Rakghoul plague and it succeeds, but the Sith glass Taris and the cure is destroyed. And given how dangerous the Rakghoul plague is, it makes some level of sense to just declare a planet suffering an outbreak a lost cause.

HOWEVER, because a cure was at one point discovered, that means it's possible, and given Aliana is just the fucking leader of the galaxy now, she definitely has the resources to be able to put together an effort to find or rediscover the cure, so her glassing a planet was ultimately pointless and poor writing, especially if the Rakghoul outbreak was small scale and not planetwide.

I'm not defending LO, I just haven't seen context for that tidbit about TSR and wanted to provide some and in the process further point out how dumb a writing decision that was that LO made.

someone correct me if wrong, but i understood that alaina blows up a planet before becoming officially the leader of the galaxy which opens up the next questions: 1. why it had to be alaina of anyone else on the universe the one to decide to carry out a genocide or not? 2. if this event is not going to have further consequences for the other characters... why is there at all? if my memory serves me right, i think the way this event was handled was just a little bit of angst for alaina and to be an excuse to have some hurt/comfort with rey later on. i don't care about having scenes like that, i just wonder if genocide was really the only thing that we could have used for that. it could have been used for alaina to want to discover that cure at all cost and do her absolute best to eradicate that disease so an event like that never has to happen again... but LO never even mentioned that happening. alaina just destroyed the entire population of a planet, is sad for a few paragraphs and apparently never thinks about it again. never uses it as a motivator to want to save more people in the future. it just happens and then we move on to the next thing. on top of that, remember that LO has a thing about liking to write genocidal dictators whose choice are deemed good just because. before alaina it was lord ryder, who destroyed planet earth because someone was rude. my guess is that LO just likes to have that kind of power. it's part of her power fantasy to just be able to carry out genocide.

[mylordshesacactus]

8, 9, and 10 for Star Wars for the Violence Ask Game?

8: common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about

lmao nice try. you're not killing me like that. i wont go out that way.

9: worst part of canon

Significant chunks of the oh-so-precious old EU. it got rebooted for a reason, people. it fucking sucked.

10: worst part of fanon

The terrible burden of being the only one who's right about everything and has objectively correct opinions every single time 😔

[dvdmitri]

I'm largely over the cancellation of the old EU. Honest. A lot of other people ain't tho. Which means there's still a lot of argument about it online. What else is new, right?

All I'm trying to say is that while I stopped caring about the wider Star Wars canon, some of the arguments rub me the wrong way.

>"Nobody took your books away, they are still there."

You see, the point is that the old canon is straight-up dead. Some of the most important signs of life are development and procreation. No new materials are released these days in that old continuity (unless you count TOR, but who the hell does?). So, what we have left is not an old continuity, but a static (dead) body of one. Imagine someone saying having dinosaur bones is just as cool as having living dinosaurs roaming around. That's what I hear.

>"They are reintroducing old elements into a new canon anyway."

And velociraptors have evolved into chickens. The reintroduced elements have different nuances, different backgrounds, and/or different names. Some are better, some are worse, but none of it is exactly the same.

So, please, don't even try to tell me that Legends is anything but a dusty decaying archive. You just don't get it.

[thevindicativevordan]

Any thoughts on Star Wars? The sequel trilogy specifically.

Used to be more obsessed with that franchise than anything else in the world.

Unlike most it wasn't The Last Jedi or Rise of Skywalker that disenchanted me. I was out after The Force Awakens. What a garbage movie, a soulless rehash of A New Hope that rendered the entire Original Trilogy pointless. Prior to the Disney buyout I was a Star Wars fanatic. I devoured obscure articles on Wookieepedia as a child. Teen me couldn't get enough Star Wars books, even trash like Darksaber. Ben Skywalker and Jaina Solo were my favorite characters from the old EU, and Lucas can seethe to his dying day but I thought Mara Jade was awesome. I watched the VHS tapes of the OT until they broke, and seeing Revenge of the Sith in theaters for my birthday as a kid remains one of my favorite childhood memories. On the original Xbox I must have played the campaigns for Star Wars: Battlefront and the KOTOR games over 20 times. When Disney bought the franchise and announced the reboot, I was sad but as a DC fan who came in with the New 52, I had some hope that maybe this would be a good thing. And hey, Legends actually got a decent ending with the Sith finally being completely destroyed and the Skywalker lineage living on. So I gave Disney a chance, went to see TFA with my family... and walked out depressed.

Now I don't care at all. Somehow I successfully managed to sever the emotional connection I used to have. Doesn't bother me when I see the franchise helplessly flailing about these days. I played Jedi Fallen Order and enjoyed that, I'll probably play the sequel, and that's the extent of my engagement with the franchise these days. My littlest sister is a big fan of Star Wars, or at least the Clone Wars and Sequel Trilogy eras. She likes Ahsoka, Anakin, and Kylo the most. She likes Rey. I don't flip out on her for being "wrong" and enjoying those movies any more than my dad did at me enjoying the Prequel Trilogy which he hates. My dad enjoyed the Mandalorian. I have fun talking Star Wars with them, it's been a blast to see my little sister finally get old enough to play through the KOTOR games. I just don't obsess over Star Wars anymore.

At least with Legends, as dumb as it got, I saw the Luke story I wanted to see of him rebuilding the Jedi and having a family. Legends Luke accomplished what his father could not. Legends Han and Leia got their happy ending despite the heartbreak of Jacen's fate. Their fates in the ST are just bafflingly awful. All three die total failures who accomplished sweet fuck all, in some cases outright regressing from where they were at the end of the OT, and the Skywalker lineage ends in total disgrace while the Palpatine bloodline survives through Rey. Whatever, I guess they'll just retell Legends Luke stories with Rey since they basically soft rebooted the franchise to make her the central replacement for Anakin and Luke. She's the one who actually ends the Sith for good and she's the one who will rebuild the Jedi. Long as my sister enjoys what comes next, I guess I'll just treat the Legends ending as my personal canon and treat the ST as fanfiction.

[randomwritingguy]

Lucasfilm shouldn't be obligated to always follow George Lucas' vision to the letter.

I just need to get this off my chest.

Lately I feel like the fanbase generally treats George Lucas like his word is absolute law and if a story doesn't really align what he particularly thinks then its betraying Star Wars or it it automatically sucks. Don't get me wrong, I am glad that George Lucas is recieving more love from the fans after the hate he got during the Prequel Trilogy. He is a creative genius and I have so much respect for him. However, I feel like many people forget or don't realise is that just because George Lucas came up with an idea or a product alligns with his vision doesn't guarantee that its good.

Both Canon and the Expanded Universe have ideas that George didn't agree with. With the EU, George's vision for the Old Republic was different from what we got. However, the Old Republic that came out was beloved by many. He also didn't think Luke would get married either. And yet Mara Jade and her relationship with Luke is also beloved by many Star Wars fans to this day. These are only two examples of course but, in my opinion, they alone show that one doesn't have to follow George Lucas' vision to create good stories and ideas in Star Wars.

Now, I'm not saying George Lucas should be completely disregarded and ignored. His ideas and concepts should at the very least be considered. However, Lucasfilm shouldn't feel obligated to follow them and the fans shouldn't believe without question that every single idea George Lucas comes up with is absolutely perfect. Luke's role in the Sequel Trilogy was inspired by George Lucas' vision for the character in his ideal Sequel Trilogy and we all know the fanbase feels about Old Man Luke. Dave Filoni is guilty of this too. I understand that he is the "protege" of George Lucas but his insistence on following his "mentor's" vision has really hurt some of his stories in my opinion.

Basically, what I'm trying to say in this ramble is that if we limit Star Wars to George Lucas' vision alone, this franchise will never evolve and grow to become more than it already is. It will forever be confined to one box, shackled to the chains of the ideas of one man rather than being free to draw ideas from various sources. To quote Uncle Iroh from Avatar The Last Airbender: "It is important to draw wisdom from different places. If you take it only from one place, it grows rigid and stale."

[cicerenella]

yesss i live for veneziano having more depth to him. he's genuinely a happy, cheerful person to be around but he definitely looks out for his own interests first. he just gets away with being vain because hes also charming and adorable. i mean this guy will ditch his own besties and make new alliances if it benefits him. normally hes a great friend to have, but when he sees the water start coming in, hes jumping ship. i also think something underexplored with his character is how he can be friendly with pretty much everyone. imagine you have a good friend you think might be a bit useless but makes up for it by being so loveable... and then you see him acting the same he does with you but with your sworn enemies. thats germanys pov lol. i think hes someone who can fit in anywhere if he wants to.

anon i love your take on veneziano (or how i call him, felice)!! it is exactly how i like to think of him relating to other nations, especially since he's one of the most influential nations in the EU nowadays.

you see, i don't really like how hima portrayed his personality. the stereotype for northern italians is almost the opposite of his characterization in canon (less passionate and more hardworking), so i tried to find a middle ground in how he acts and behaves around others while not completely erasing his actual personality. and you nailed it!

i think felice is a very hard worker and cares deeply about his country, and that requires that he's also going to be plenty charismatic. you will always see him smile and present himself perfectly in any formal meeting, referring to others with nothing but politeness added with his natural cheerfulness. contrary to romano, felice is very open to change and likes to have as many ties as possible with other "influential" nations of the Union. it benefits him in the end so why not?

but here's the catch. like you said, he's plenty vain and "nation focused", so if he finds another situation he thinks is going to benefit, he's sure as hell going to pursue it. and in the meanwhile, it's seems he cares little of how this decision might affect the people that surround him. it almost seems he puts this super friendly persona just for his own benefit. almost.

this, combined to the fact that romano has issues relating to others cause of trauma a difficult personality as well, makes their relationship tremendously complicated (something that I would love to talk about in another post). there have been instances during history where feli wronged quite harshly his older brother, making his vanity show in full strength.

so I'm happy to know that people don't see him as this dumb baby that doesn't know how to behave lol. north italy can be an extremely interesting character if you look at his history, old and modern alike. he can be both extremely nice and a complete asshole at the same time, so don't underestimate him! he was, one time, the Republic of Venice after all...