#if i see one more person say that bi!buck is only for eddie/buddie shippers i will start biting

[kittyphoenix12-xx]

'i'm not angry just disappointed' i say angrily

[buddiebeginz]

Okay everyone listen to me Tim posting a B/T video (if he even did because his FB is private and people are saying he posted it but took it down) does not mean he’s saying Buddie is a no go and T*mmy is Buck’s endgame.

First of all let’s remember that Tim wanted to do Buck’s bi storyline years ago particularly back in season 4 and this was likely going to lead to Buddie (look at how the shooting arc was handled).

Second so much of this season has been geared towards Buddie. We had a lot of joint interviews with Ryan and Oliver (more than ever before). We’ve had Buddie talked about in pretty much every interview Oliver and Ryan have done both together and separately this season. This is not something that happened (to this extent) previously, it’s clear Fox did not really want them talking about Buddie. Also remember that if Buddie wasn’t happening and if Tim and ABC didn’t want them talking about Buddie they wouldn’t be allowing these kinds of questions over and over again. They would answer the Buddie question once or twice and that would be the end of it. Everyone knows how much people ship Buddie especially Tim. I'm positive he knows it would be really stupid to keep bringing it up if he wanted the subject to die down.

More importantly let’s look at how this season has gone we’ve had Buck and Eddie together more than ever. Tim even explicitly stated he was trying to put Buddie scenes in almost every episode. Look at how he answered that person about the karaoke scene. Tim basically said he was a Buddie shipper too.

Also think about this Tim knew he was going to have Buck come out and naturally it stands to reason that when it happened people were going to speculate more than ever about Buddie. If Tim has no intention of making Buddie happen and if his long term goal has been to put Buck with T*mmy as Buck's forever love interest (Like Bathena and Madney) wouldn't he have handled this season differently?

I'm not saying Buck and Eddie wouldn't have scenes together if the plan is never for them to be a couple, obviously not they're best friends but I do think Tim would have been extra careful with this being the first season Buck is out as as a bi character. Yet like I said we've had Buddie together more than ever. We've had them talking about sexual tension, dressing in couples costumes (when the actual pair that is dating didn't), singing karaoke together (even if most of it got cut), Buck talking about Eddie's cologne, Buck being a parental figure to Chris, Buck coming out to Eddie in a private quiet scene (when he only had two coming out talks this season), a buddie hug when we haven't had one for years, Buck talking about how he wished he could help Eddie when Eddie was talking about being sexually frustrated.

Most importantly though and what really seals the deal for me on why I think Buddie is happening is that Buck's entire bi awakening episode was focused very heavily on Eddie. Buck was NOT jealous that Eddie was getting to spend time with T*mmy in that episode (i.e. jealous because he wanted to spend time with T*mmy) he was jealous because Eddie was spending so much time and sharing parts of himself with someone else. He was jealous of T*mmy getting to spend time with Eddie and felt like he was being replaced. He thought him and Eddie had something special but then he sees the connection Eddie so easily formed with T*mmy and it hurt him.

We just haven't (as of yet) seen Buck really be willing to dig deeper to understand what he was truly feeling during all of that. How it was all about Eddie and not T*mmy. At this point all Buck knows is that T*mmy kissed him and Buck realized oh I like guys and he's reveling in the newness of all of that. At some point though he's going to realize none of this was ever about T*mmy and that even the main things drawing him to T*mmy were because of his similarities to Eddie. (I wrote a whole post about this episode btw)

But back to my point and that's why would Tim make a whole episode about how Buck obviously has feelings for Eddie and make it in the same episode where the audience (especially the general audience) realizes that Buck isn't straight? Why do that if Buddie isn't in the plans? If Tim's goal is B/T he still could have had something with Buck being jealous. What if T*mmy was hanging out with Chim and the rest of the 118 and he started being friends with all of them. They could have had it where Buck felt threatened kind of like he did in season 2 with Eddie but what it really was about was that Buck liked T*mmy and didn't know how to express that. What I'm saying is that Tim wasn't backed into a corner with this bi Buck storyline and T*mmy there were so many different ways he could have told it. He chose to tell it where it revolved very heavily around Eddie. Buck was even talking about Eddie right before and after he kissed T*mmy what exactly are we supposed to take away from that?

I know B/T stans like to say we just see what we want to see but decisions like having Eddie feature so heavily in Buck's coming out ep aren't made on a whim these are very deliberate especially when the powers that be know how much people ship these characters. Very specific choices have been made to tell a story with Buck and Eddie this season that is leading them towards the same goal and that's eventually together. If you're not seeing that it's because you don't want to.

There's also the fact that if B/T is the ship we're supposed to be rooting for if it's the ship that's going to be as big to 911 as Bathena and Madney (at least according to B/T fans) why has there been so little focus on them? I know some people might say it's a shorter season and they already have so much to fit. Or that they're trying to go slow with B/T's story but here's the thing they rushed into having Buck come out to the audience in one episode and then rushed into having him come out to all the other characters a couple of episodes after that. If Tim wanted more focus on B/T there would be. They also wouldn't even have to do much with them. We've barely even seen them have an actual conversation and the few times we have most of it has been when there has been some kind of uncomfortableness or annoyance between them. Like when Buck was full of anxiety during the date (and then T*mmy made that closet joke) or when Buck was upset about T*mmy not dressing up and T*mmy seemed annoyed.

I don't know I've watched a ton of different shows and to me this doesn't feel like how you build a ship you want the audience to root for. And I'm not saying that you can't have two people at odds and then have them get together. I love a good enemies to lovers thing but that's not what this is. To me the show is trying to tell us that Buck and T*mmy have an attraction but they really aren't on the same wavelength in other areas. Plus the show is always having Buck either talking about Eddie or having Eddie show up. Like when Buck came out to Maddie and was more concerned about lying to Eddie than his date going bad. We had Maddie literally Telling Buck if he had something to tell Eddie he'd tell him in his own time. What am I supposed to think about a line like that? Or when you had Eddie there during the whole scene with B/T at the karaoke bar or how the scene immediately cut from the B/T hospital kiss to Eddie. Plus we haven't even had a mention of T*mmy since 7x06 and now we're going into the finale. You'd think that they would have at least had Buck mention T*mmy during that date night scene where Buck was watching Chris for Eddie but no instead we had Buck being rather flirty with Eddie talking about his cologne and throwing popcorn into his mouth.

Now let's look at this video. There’s a high probability Tim didn’t even watch it. It’s long and not good in my opinion (I saw it before today). B/T stans call us delusional but they’re yelling about how Tim must believe in this bs invisible string theory they came up with and because it’s mentioned in that video. But here’s what the cover looks like

And this is why I think Tim posted it (if he even did) because it’s not about what’s in the video it’s about the title.

Has 911 found Buck’s perfect match?

This is what Tim wants us thinking about going into the finale. Is T*mmy the perfect match for Buck? Some like to think so but we know there is someone better and Buck is going to realize that.

No matter what happens with Buck and T*mmy at the end of this season and even if they're still together going into season 8 I 100% don't believe that T*mmy is meant to be Buck's endgame. Buck is for all intents and purposes the shows main character. We were basically introduced to the show through him we've watched him have the most growth, tim is not going to give him some lackluster love story.

Most primetime shows have a couple that the audience can root for. A couple where the audience isn't sure if they're going to get together but everything happening with them makes you want to see it happen so it keeps the audience tuning in waiting for the day it finally does. 911 had that for a long time with Madney before they got together and then later when they broke up and got back together. But now that they and all the main couples are happily married and rather settled 911 has no main couple like that not one that will garner media and audience attention, except oh wait they do it's Buddie. If B/T were going to be the couple they were betting on we would have had at least one Oliver and Lou on screen interview by now talking about them and we haven't. We definitely would have had more press promoting the couple but we haven't. The focus like I said before is on Buddie. The focus in the episodes is towards Buddie, the focus in the media, it's all a bright neon flashing sign that says BUDDIE. Nothing is pointing towards B/T in actuality I think Buck and Taylor may have even had more press than B/T has gotten so do with that information what you will.

I know a lot of you will hear about Tim posting this and think that's it Buddie is dead in the water but it's just not true. We are closer than ever to Buddie happening I promise you. We just have to be patient and let the story play out. Please don't pay attention to all the negativity coming from that other ship in fandom. Block as much as you need to so you can keep your peace. The best thing you can do right now is to show your love for Buddie as much as possible. Make sure you're tweeting about Buddie, leaving comments about Buddie on 911's official accounts (on ig YT tiktok etc), making new posts and graphics about Buddie on tumblr. We need to continue to be a loud (respectful) presence online and to remind everyone that we won't give up on Buddie.

Sending love to all of you ❤️

And remember:

[matan4il]

911 ep 709 first watch reactions

The way this ep starts with giving us a clear shot focused on the front, solely on Buck sitting between the man he's dating and the man he's been married to for the past six years, and only on them. XD I'm here for it.

Oh, Bobby. :( Feeling unworthy of his medal, and remembering his dad, and how everything went wrong after he got it. </3

Aaaah. Man, IDK. The openly and explicitly homophobic and racist captain cartoon just feels like an easy target now. Prejudice doesn't seem like it mostly gets expressed that way anymore, and when we only teach people to reject that kind, we not only fail to teach them to recognize subtler forms, we may be misleading them to think those more nuanced ones don't count.

Love Athena trying to "save" Bobby by contacting Amir. I'm always a sucker for a couple where they both save each other.

I enjoyed the little play with "Mother Hen," and I know it's not specifically about Buddie, but it is damn funny that when she's told she's raising more kids, they're the ones the camera focuses on. lol Raising a kid together for 6 years, still a couple of morons in desperate need of parenting from their colleagues. Even when Bobby's "wordless goodbye" moment with Buck is letting him cook for the 118, Eddie's by his side and they're doing it together. I swear, 911 said, "Take note, this is what a marriage looks like" and then just kept hammering the point for 6 seasons now.

Okay, I am pretty sure that, while Bobby's acceptance of Buck's first relationship with a guy, is really lovely, "Because we haven't had to talk about it" is not an actual good criterion for discerning whether someone is good for their partner or not. People whose spouses are abusive don't talk about it, either. :/ I am NOT saying that's Buck and Tommy, because it obviously isn't, it just feels like a line thrown in there to be cutesy, but which isn't actually helpful to people, who might take it too seriously.

I AM GONNA LOL FOREVER. So, just like Buck's bi awakening was all about Eddie, now Eddie's messed up whatever he has with Kim is gonna involve Buck, too? Gotcha. Battlefield boyfriends being off-battlefield boyfriends once more.

So... Buck was going to see Tommy, in an ep where TPTB have already paid for Lou in the role, so might as well use him as much as possible, but instead a non-emergency run in with Eddie's current whatever-Kim-is makes Buck ditch Tommy, and run straight over to Eddie's to help him? Look, I'm obviously a One True Pairing kind of shipper, so Buddie are it for me, as much as I can enjoy and see the value of Buck and Tommy as a stepping stone, and nothing will make me stop shipping Buddie (especially not after the tsunami eps), but 911 is feeding me way too well with how it frames these scenes and stories, I don't think the show's trying to get me to stop.

Man, if anyone's ever had a doubt that Eddie is the world champion at denial, this kitchen scene will def cure that.

"I'm worried about you." "Yeah, I'm worried about me, too." And then Buck, the one person who can ALWAYS penetrate through Eddie's denial wall, no matter how thick it is.

Eh, IDK how much the part where they try to re-define Shannon as the love of Eddie's life works, or how much it just serves to show he's still in denial, just a different kind than before, when Buck got through to him that he can't go on like this with Kim. For one thing, in his little retelling of their dysfunctional r/s, Eddie doesn't mention that Shannon was leaving him a second time, even before she died. Literal denial and repression.

So I'm gonna choose to believe Hen and Karen will get Mara back, because I can't deal with that particular storyline otherwise.

Kim's reaction is too deranged for me. Who does something like that, even if we assume the kindest of intentions? And then Marisol and Christopher's timing... I didn't sign on to watch a soap opera, but I guess I'm getting one free of charge?

"Now you gotta save yourself." If that ain't a painful summary of what growing up means, IDK what is. the conversation with Bobby's dad in his sleep was a good, painful scene, built right, leading to him hopefully getting his closure through saving his wife from a fire, and leaving us with just the right amount of suspension for next week and the season finale, where we'll see if he can let go of his past mistakes without a doppelganger dressing up like his dead wife...

Thank you for reading! If you’re looking for more, you can find my s7 reactions tag here, and more of my Buddie meta and content in my pinned post. xoxox

[mazzystar24]

Thank you so much for being so kind and replying to my ask! I think I understand it a little better now and I do agree with some of it. There were really sweet moments between them that made me happy but OH how it hurt to see buck just standing outside the restaurant. Yeah he freaked out a little but even lou said it wasn't ok of tommy and he wouldn't have done that. His defenders should really look into that lol judging from his interviews, he is a buddie endgame shipper and I love that

I'm kinda used to people blaming everything on buck but it still sucks. If he "shoved tommy back in the closet", they also have to acknowledge the comment tommy made when eddie was there...thank goodness he was so oblivious

But I do blame the writers a little bit for making tommy seem so...distant? Mysterious? There's potential because he has a connection to their world but we don't know nearly enough about him. We know chim, hen and bobby were good with him when he left all those years ago but now? Show us!!

Most of all, I hope they are not "done" with buck's storyline because he deserves more. He was barely a side character for the remaining episodes and that made me really sad. Oliver looks happier again though, so maybe there's hope?

No problem ofc like as long as you’re respectful to me I’ll always give that back

UGHH YESSS ABT THE COMMENT AT THE DATE LIKE IF TOMMY WAS IN FACT OUT AND BUCK WAS PUSHING HIM IN THE CLOSET AS THEY CLAIM THEN TOMMYS LINE WOULD IN FACT BE OUTING HIM

Like personally I do take it as dig meant for buck only to understand - which brings its own fucking rage to me ngl but these toxic fans’ interpretation is somehow even worse for their fav

Me personally sorry but I’m kinda like just get rid of tommy atp and you know that but I totally get how you feel and would be disappointed in your place too

Also I totally agree and definitely hope that they really delve into and develop Buck’s bi arc further

I think they honestly kinda fumbled last season because of the shorter season and how much shit they tried to fit like I was saying this before but s8 should’ve been treated like s1/s2 where like you have some character building and like personal shit and then keep the rest fairly uncomplicated with like a few big things here and there and a strong sense of found family in it and hitting that balance of not overloading yourself while also keeping things interesting

Instead we kinda had boom big thing boom big thing boom here is an even more complicated big thing boom another big thing and it all felt very frazzled and all over the place and also really fragmented

And cos of all these big things you end up not able to give any one big thing the levity or development or the depth it can have

Leading to a mess of having buck pushed straight to the sidelines story wise after two eps of his bi arc then bobby having shit from Minnesota but also cartel and also house getting burnt down but also him being suicidal but also him nearly dying and us getting no scenes from the team at his bedside and then you have Eddie and his doppelgänger mess and chimney and his enciphillitus and it’s just all gives you a little bit of an overload without ever getting the pay off or the development

Like I love the show and love the writing for the most part but I gotta say s8 had a strong start that I thought it’d battle for my fav season but then it just started slipping when you could feel how limited in eps they were and also the writing style of not planning ahead for a lot of things

Idk if I explained any of that clearly 😭😭

[tevanbuckley]

Sort of a vent post, sorry if my jumble doesnt make sense. I'm just annoyed at a lot of the BoB's right now.

BoBs scrambling to bully a showrunner into posting deleted scenes that didn't add to the plot of the episode and would've taken the spotlight EVEN MORE away from Chimney and Maddie is crazy to me.

They're the ones saying bucktommy shippers only want to see Buck kiss a man instead of caring about the actual story arc of the characters when they're obsessed over a couple of minutes of the characters being drunk and insist on invalidating Eddie's own queer journey in the process by demanding Buddie happening instantaneously because Buck is canon Bi. Like, give the characters time to BREATHE?

PS

I hate how easy it is for ship wars start and how quickly things can get toxic in fandom spaces now. What ever happened to ship and let ship? I haven't really seen bucktommy blogs shit on buddie/BoBs or retaliate unless they get provoked into doing so by said BoBs. We dont want the drama. Let us live our lives in peace man.

do you know how out of pocket you have to behave for a showrunner to get on facebook to tell you to calm down? ppl are also making way too big a deal out of oliver talking about the karaoke scene in interviews, he wasn't teasing b*ddie, he hates karaoke irl so it was a difficult scene to film and made for a funny non-spoilery story.

personally i think it's unlikely at this point they'll do a queer eddie/b*ddie arc, not impossible and maybe marginally more likely now buck is queer, but i don't think they have any plans for it.

the problem with "ship and let ship" is the 911 fandom has never actually had to do that before, the opinions have been fairly homogeneous until now. so a significant portion of the fan base not just enjoying bucktommy, but looking at b*ddie scenes and going "yeah, sorry, i just don't see how this is romantic/setting up a romance," feels like a personal attack.

[bucksdaffy]

https://www.tumblr.com/bucksdaffy/750482450750308352/i-mean-i-think-its-fair-to-ask-what-show-yall?source=share

Okay, let's talk about development. Buddie shippers love to throw shade at Tommy. So, quick question: it's been 5 years now, where is Eddie's character development? Since Season 3, he has been suffering because of his wife and has run away from a new relationship. He's in the same place as in Season 7. The truth is, Buddie shippers don't care about Eddie's character. They see Eddie as an extension of Buck. Buck manages to get some self-improvement. We can see his changes from Season 1 to now. Eddie? They don’t care; they're too worried about karaoke scenes and their only concern is to make Buddie canon

Sorry, that annon got me so nervous

truth be told, the show favours buck, and eddie is often neglected in terms of development. i must admit i actually saw some eddie-leaning bobs express frustration about this early on when it was revealed that a gay eddie arc was under consideration before tim and co ultimately decided on a bi buck storyline. but their voices were pretty drowned out by the constant yapping of how the show could make buddie canon, and now it's hard to see anything else.

i think you're right in saying bobs don't care about eddie as a character. but i'd even go so far as to say they don't care about buck either. superficially? sure because they both are part of the ship they love. but in reality? i wouldn't be so sure about that.

because the thing is they don't seem to think about buck and eddie as separate individuals. they always make one's storyline about the other. there is no buck without eddie and no eddie without buck in their eyes.

when you love a character, i think it's only natural that you want them to be happy. but when you love a ship more, your brain is wired to believe that the only way for them to be happy is if said ship ends up together. i don't want to condemn anyone for their feelings and choices because it's everyone's right to enjoy what they want to enjoy. you can't force anyone to change their view on that. i just wish they admitted they are not actually buck defenders or eddie defenders – they are just full-on buddie shippers, and that's it. don't pretend you care about them as individuals because it's obvious it's not true.

bobs don't care that buck is now in a happy relationship with a man who treats him as his equal, doesn't glorify him, understands what it means to be a firefighter, supports him, and makes an effort to be there for him when he needs him. they don't care that he is good for buck right now. they want tommy gone because he stands in the way of buddie canon (does he really? not the fact that eddie is canonically still very much heterosexual?), and because the audience seems to enjoy him much more than they anticipated. and they don't even care about an amicable break-up anymore – i saw some bobs say they want tommy dead. now you can't tell me you care about buck if you wish for his love interest to die. it's fine if you don't like tommy and if you personally think buck would be happier with someone else. let's agree to disagree and move on. but when you wish to seriously traumatize (one of) your favourite(s) character(s) in order for your ship to become canon? that just shows where your priorities lie, and i can guarantee that most people will disagree with you.

when it comes to eddie, he doesn't have the happiest storyline right now, and hasn't for a while. but if/when in s8 or some later season (provided they get renewed for more) he gets the development he deserves, and finally finds someone who he truly likes (and that someone isn't buck) and treats right, or perhaps decides that being single is fine and lets go of the pressure to be in a romantic relationship, do you think they'll be happy for him? i highly doubt so. they'll still push for buddie canon, not taking into account the individual characters of the story and their needs. what matters is that they get what they want, and everything and everyone else can go to hell.

if that is your stance, i personally think you should just quit watching the show and move to ao3 full-time for your and everyone else's own good. tim and co will not make buddie canon just because you want them to. it has to make sense for both buck and eddie individually first. and right now that is not the case for either of them.

[scaredexpert]

Oof... I have to say that every single storyline in that episode was unsatisfying imo

Bobby waking up 30 mins into the episode and everyone just lightheartedly moving on?

Buck and Christopher didn't hug goodbye and Buck and Eddie also didn't hug?? This episode's Buckley-Diaz scenes were just kinda meh aside from Eddie telling Christopher goodbye (pls Christopher come back next season wahhh) and I liked seeing Eddie's parents be more supportive

Bucktommy scene was cute but there continues to be no chemistry between them so what's the point???

Madney taking in Mara in a truly flabbergasting series of events???? There's no way they'd be approved as a kinship home for Mara, and there is no possible way on this earth they would be licensed as foster caregivers that quickly. Also, if Ortiz's interference removed Mara from Henren, why would she not continue to interfere with Mara being placed with Madney? (As if such a person would even have influence in this situation in the first place.) I mean, I like that the outlook is positive now, so yay? This one might just be me because I work in foster care and I just know how things work, but it is so grating. Oh, also, there is no way Hen would be able to just march into the group home and see Mara. No. Way. A fabricated tale that doesn't exist. I know, I know, I know, it's tv. But they could have done a modicum of research :')

I thought we were supposed to get some kind of cliffhanger????? I mean, I guess?? I'm not feeling a lot of suspense lmao. Gerrard will be captain while Bobby figures out how to take the 118 back, there will be drama until suddenly it'll all be better again.

And lastly, Family Feud theory is bones </3 But if it turns out eventually that Eddie is queer, we will all know that Family Feud was always on our side lmao

Okay, I guess the one satisfying part was that Amir's character and intentions were finally made clear... he was so clearly innocent, just hurt. I appreciated his role in this season and the actor KILLED it.

Dang I'm just frustrated with this season's writing overall. Bi Buck is wonderful, but I can't say I enjoyed a lot else, but it seems like I'm in the minority idk! I understand it was only 10 eps though and I'm still glad we got the season. I'm a Buddie shipper btw, but if it doesn't go canon, I'll live. However... it seems almost like the writers themselves haven't even decided, and um... they need to decide and then they need to commit to what they decide. I've been saying that for a loooong time. Keeping it THIS open-ended and hinting around is a disservice to everyone at this point, I think. I just think they're scared to make a choice, honestly.

I'm relieved to hopefully not be thinking about 9-1-1 anymore for a few months, but I have to find a new lil hyperfixation for a while. Suggestions? Lmao and does anyone wanna talk about our feelings? 🥲

[diazfox]

(A tentative guess about your BuckTommy vs Buddie post)

I guess a big part of it is because it's canon ? It's canon and it seems to work, and it seems to be make Buck calm and fluffy and happy in a healthy way, which is what a lot (all ?) of us want. So we can get behind that, for now.

Your "why not a similar support behind his exes / fetishizing MM relationship" question is valid and i think the difference is because it's the first time someone Buck dates seems to really fit with him without having something that we can pre-shot is going to be a problem, and the first time he goes into a relationship (getting myself ahead of things there) without it being to heal something in him ? And as I've read other people point out, Tommy's not silo-ed out, he has a backstory with the Begins episodes, he is friends with some of the 118, so it makes him less of a plot device than Buck's female exes.

And about the second part, the fetishizing part, i think sadly it's just a real thing that happens here, on tumblr and in fandom spaces : men are seen enjoying being together and fandom smooches them together together. One could even argue that it's the same for Buddie, wanting them to be together together when canon just factually says they are BFFs. I don't think anyone is erasing anything, but all that is canon about Buddie is that they are BFFs (a lot can be read as more that friends but ultimately it's with shipping goggles on, only - i'm not a very optimistic person, though).

I guess some of us think that if they didn't make Buddie happen for this long, then it may be because it is meant to stay on the fandom shipping side ? And we're given this incredible chance to have a canon lgbt character with an unusual story of self-discovery that doesn't happen a lot in tv shows so we're just enthusiastic to go with the flow ?

And if it turns out that the writers have the guts to get Eddie his own self-discovery journey, and if that later leads to Buddie happening somehow, then I think all BuckTommy shippers will be glad that it finally happened, and that it is canon, and is finally the Truth.

damn, thanks for your insight! i do see how things being canon and properly canon (like Tommy having a "backstory") can cause shifts in perspectives looking into the future.

i 100% understand why some might think buddie is a form of fetishization too. ngl i've seen strong arguments like "why can't 2 male characters share a strong emotional bond platonically? why does it have to lead to romance?" i guess my main reason for bringing up fetishization with respect to bucktommy is the fact that they are quite lacking in the "strong emotional bond" department. so it feels pretty much like "2 hot guys kissing and touching each other hell yeah" to me.

but i realise i'm overlooking the fact that this is bi buck's first relationship, though. i forgot to consider the fact that majority of this support for tommy comes from the fact that this is the first love interest of buck's to whom he can give all of himself and get twice as much with all the freedom in the world AS A BI MAN. thank u for putting me on to the fact that i've been misinterpreting this enthusiasm to some degree.

thats not to say that just bc something is canon or just a headcanon everything is set in stone. writers and actors themselves have made it very clear time and time again that audience reactions and engagement matters when it comes to plot development. in your own line of thought, right until 7x 03 they didn't make bi Buck happen for so long. so would u say it was meant to stay merely on the fandom shipping side? i just think the possibilities are endless, and maybe we as a fandom can try to have a bit more resilience to see through fan-originated storylines instead of a "i'll just go with whatever is canon bc it's easier" ethic.

[bluemagi]

Re. Jumping ship and multishipping

I've been thinking a lot about this these past few weeks, since a certain hot pilot swooped in and stole my heart. I've seen people giving other people shit for "giving up" and jumping ship, for multishipping or even just for liking and enjoying a character. And it's just weird to me how people are so obsessed with controlling other people's behaviors. Just the other day I saw a TikTok where the creator was saying that people who "jumped ship" to Bucktommy were just fetishising because they want to see two guys kissing. Which is just... a terrible take on so many levels.

I was a Buddie shipper too. I enjoyed their on-screen relationship, I saw the signs that there might be more than friendship, and I hoped that something might happen. But I have also been in fandoms for at least 20 years by now. I've been through queerbaiting, I have been through shipbaiting, I have been through relationships I previously loved being destroyed by what happens on screen. I know that nothing is promised and that we have to have realistic expectations. Our interpretations of things are usually not what the writers/actors/directors/editors intend, and so we can always hope, but we have to know that we probably won't get what we want.

I think I grew a bit bored with the Buddie ship around season 5. I was watching queer representation in other shows, like Tarlos in Lone Star, and I couldn't see 911 ever go there, especially as time went on and nothing happened, there were no obvious signs. I didn't think they would ever make Buck or Eddie queer. I still enjoyed the show for what it was and would watch when I had the time, but I wasn't obsessing over it anymore. I would watch the show and hope that either one of them would get an interesting love interest (I actually sort of liked Natalia at the end of season 6), and until that happened, I would just enjoy Buddie outside of that, in fan fictions and Tumblr discourse.

So imagine my surprise when they finally did it, when they actually made Bi Buck canon. Since Tommy had been on the show before, we already knew a lot about him, and we could also read into the difference between s2 Tommy and s7 Tommy and see that there had been a lot of development there. So yeah, I was immediately interested. The more I saw, the more interested I became. So while I can still love and appreciate Buddie, it is far more interesting to me to have actual substance with an on-screen relationship, rather than having to try to interpret and read into every interaction to see if it can relate to Buddie.

But, back to jumping ship and multishipping. I've been thinking back through my fandom history, and I realized that this is something I have gone through several times before, in one way or another. I started out with soap operas, and in those, everyone cheats and nobody is ever happy for long, so jumping ship back and forth happens. Suddenly a character is killed, only to come back to life several years later. They completely change personalities, they change faces (new actors), so things change a lot. I suppose that might be why multishipping and jumping ship is not really an issue for me. It just make sense that you can change your mind about something when more content comes out. It's sort of like a relationship. You can be happy and in love for a while, or for a long time, but things change, people grow, and suddenly that relationship is not right for you anymore.

So I was thinking back on my previous experiences with jumping ship and multishipping, and I just scribbled down some thoughts on them. Starting with....

As The World Turns - Nuke vs. LuRe

I think one of the first times I jumped ship, was from Noah/Luke to Luke/Reid in As The World Turns. An American soap that ended in like 2011. Nuke were one of the first gay male couples on American day time TV, and if you have the time, please go read about them on Wikipedia, because their story is absolutely ridiculous and overdramatic, as most soap couples are. And since this was in the 00s / early 10s, they barely shared any kisses or intimacy. At certain points we were counting the days between their on-screen kisses, and I think we went 200 days without an on-screen kiss while they were in a romantic relationship on the show, and the first time they had sex, I think they just kissed and fucking jumped on the bed or something. It was just ridiculous. But it was representation, which there was not a lot of back in those days.

Then, my beloved Reid Oliver came into the picture. He was out and proud, he was confident, successful, unapologetic, he was just very interesting. Luke/Noah was young love, riddled with insecurity and drama. Luke/Reid was more confident, more adult. And also, it was an option! Back in those days, there were barely any queer characters on TV, and now there were three guys in one show. At the point when Reid came on to the show, I was already finding myself growing tired and annoyed with Nuke, and Noah specifically. So when he showed an interest in Luke and they began their relationship, I happily jumped over.

I was then punished by the show's cancellation and that fucking train, but that's beside the point.... Moving on!

Days of Our Lives - Will, Sonny and Paul

Now this was a fun one! I remember watching Days back when I was in elementary school. My friend and I would go home together from school and watch it before doing home work. I was better in English and in reading than her, so I would be reading the subtitles out loud to her so she could keep up with what was happening. I think Days actually helped me to learn English much better. So I remembered all the drama with Sami, Carrie, Lucas and Austin, and with baby Will. And it was a bit shocking to me when suddenly baby Will was an adult (or I guess in his late teens) and was coming out of the closet. This was around the same time as ATWT, I believe, around 2010, so again, there wasn't a lot of representation on TV.

Also, side note, this was before streaming was a thing, and I lived in Norway, so we didn't even have access to everything. I had to buy DVDs to watch stuff like Queer as Folk and The L Word.

Anyways, Will and Sonny became a couple, and with that, the first male same sex couple on the show. It was the only real option, so of course I shipped it. I am again reading the Wikipedia page for this couple, and their story is quite insane. They recast the role of Will at one point, and I didn't love how the character changed after the actor was changed. So when Paul came on the show, I was immediately drawn to him. His back story was interesting and the actor had amazing chemistry with everyone. So I shipped him with both Will and Sonny (and both versions of Will, tbh). And again, you simply must read the Wikipedia article about this. It was just pure insanity.

Supernatural – Dean, Cas, Benny

We cannot talk about shipping without talking about Destiel. It is simply not possible. I'm not even going to explain anything, because we're on Tumblr, everyone knows Destiel. So unsurprisingly, I am a Destiel shipper. I can't remember when I first started shipping them, but it must have been quite early. Probably not in season 4 when Cas first arrived, but probably in season 5.

So Destiel is an example where I haven't jumped ship, but instead, I have multishipped. Cas has unfortunately not really had any real love interest outside of Dean. I honestly can't even think of any, apart from that random woman he married when he had amnesia, which... just no, dude. But Dean however, he has had some options, and I haven't hated them.

Lisa, I loved her back in the early seasons. And when he went to live with her after season 5, I didn't hate it. I knew the chances of Destiel ever happening were slim to none, so I could enjoy Dean and Lisa together on screen while enjoying Dean and Cas in fan fictions.

Later, we met Benny. And I immediately loved him. He was so interesting, he had such an interesting relationship with Dean, and I was so mad when he died. Again, Dean was never shown to be anything but straight, so again, chances of anything happening here was also slim to none. But I could happily enjoy fan fictions and content on them, alongside with Destiel.

Other honorable mentions:

I was considering writing a whole section about Robron from Emmerdale, but I realized that I am still so pissed off about that whole thing, so I don't think I'd be able to articulate anything good from that. So instead I will just use this as an example of an on-screen couple that I absolutely loved, but that I ended up hating and abandoning due to what happened on screen. I jumped that ship straight into the ocean, and swam far far far away.

Klaine! The couple that got me into Tumblr in the first place! I loved Kurt from the first season, and I was so intrigued when Blaine came into the show (I was also a huge AVPM fan, so that just made it all the better). And I really enjoyed them together for the first couple of seasons. But thinking back, I think I fell out of love with them quite early on. Their stories didn't hit the same, it got boring. I was actually more interested in Karofsky by the time I stopped watching the show, which was probably part of the reason why I stopped watching. It was quite the unpopular opinion back then. Maybe still? I have no idea.

Gallavich! I loved Shameless back in the day, and Mickey and Ian were among my favorites. But at a certain point, I got fed up with it all and stopped watching. The on-and-off stuff got boring, important things got swept under the rug, and I didn't like the treatment of Mickey. Anyway, I gave up and stopped watching. It was only years later when the show was ending that I caught up and found out they actually ended up together. Which was amazing, but still left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth.

Anyways, my point is that there seems to be this opinion now that if you ship a couple, you are stuck with them for life. Jumping ship, or even multishipping, is seen as a betrayal, as something horrible. Shipping Buck and Tommy apparantly means that we hate Eddie, and that we don't care about the beautiful friendship and relationship Buck and Eddie have. But that is simply not the truth. At least not for me, or for most people I have seen discussing this.

At this point in time, I am going to enjoy the beautiful on-screen relationship that is Buck and Tommy, and I am excited to see where it goes. If that relationship ends, and somewhere down the line, Buck and Eddie finally end up together, I will probably be happy (as long as it is done right, like Oliver Stark himself has said).

[lover-of-mine]

Lady Whistledown. Hey, love! If you don't post this, no worries. If the term "It always feels like someone is watching me" was a person. Well, we know that's you! I'm not trying to bring negativity your way. But it's funny because the update is well, not really one because they seem lost and can't land anywhere that works.. Infighting and focusing more on other bloggers like you.

In Narnia. Last week, they tried 3 different campaigns to drum up talking points, and none of them lasted more than a few hours. It doesn't help they are down to just a slim margin of people talking nonstop, saying the same thing. I would have thought seeing the truck would make them happy, but it's weeks late. They need to see his actual face. Also, Buddies started the funny joke about Eddie looking at BT and being sad. Then they co-opted it. Till it became wait, what if that really is what's happening? At this point the intense focus on Ryan freaks them out because they are terrified of Eddie being queer. A lot of anger that if BT is still game on, then it should get more coverage, then Eddie (unless it's queer Eddie). Make sense? The fact Josh was actually in a BTS video that included Henren so you can't claim it's a dispatch thing. Also I sort of thought the OG Buddies (1 in particular) had come back to reality. They seemed to be cleaning up their blogs and playing the "multi shipper" game again. But was sad to realize the OG I followed went back to their old ways. I don't think they can admit they have lost this one. It must be a pride thing at this point. It's sad it's over a character with literally 20 minutes of screen time.

Back over in the grass, there seem to be a few other theories trying to unfold and will keep you posted. But I don't know if it's comical or sad they have so little to work with they ship trucks.

Hello baby 🩷

This is tragic really. I also thought the truck would calm them down, but I guess it makes sense it's too late. It's funny that they took our spec of Eddie watching bt and then panicked tho, because obviously queer Eddie is their worst nightmare, once they're both out buddie is coming. I don't know why they keep wanting coverage for the relationship with the coverage was for Buck being bi and contrary to what they keep saying, Buck being bi is about Buck only. I guess they really can't backtrack now. But please keep me posted 🩷🩷

[buddiebeginz]

Saw this ridiculous thread on twitter that really deserves to be taken apart so lets go:

First of all while it's obvious that Buck is attracted to T*mmy (and at this point likes him a lot considering they're now dating) in 7x04 the the main person who's attention he was trying to get was Eddie's. I did an entire breakdown of that ep btw for anyone who is still confused about what was really happening there.

------

1.

Buck goes to see Maddie after the basketball incidient and this is how the conversation goes

Maddie: You didn't mean to hurt him did you?

Buck: I don't know. I was pissed you know. Seeing him and T*mmy being such good friends after only two weeks. I felt left out and I guess I was trying to get his attention.

I know that you B/T shippers desperately want to see 7x04 as Buck sent the entire episode being super smitten over T*mmy but that is just not the story that show is telling. The entire conversation that Maddie and Buck are having in this scene prior to T*mmy even being mentioned is about Eddie. Buck and Maddie are talking about Eddie's injury and how Buck thinks Eddie won't want to talk to him after what he did. The focus is on Eddie. Also it doesn't make any logical sense for Buck to be so upset and emotionally invested over some guy he barely knows. He's upset because he thinks Eddie his best friend can so easily replace him in his life.

------

2.

You're defending T*mmy because you say he left the date not wanting to pressure Buck...yet he almost outed him in front of Eddie (someone T*mmy knows is important to Buck). By the time they were on their first date T*mmy already knew how new all of this was for Buck and how nervous he was, I mean the man was talking about how he was an ally ffs while he was on a date with a guy. And while Buck's comment about finding some hot chicks was embarrassing and I get T*mmy not liking it he should have had a little more understanding given where Buck is in his journey. Instead he made it worse by making that crass closet comment.

It's also just plain rude to go on a date with someone and then ditch them in the middle without making sure they have a way home and without any real explanation (I'm not talking about more extreme circumstances like your date just being an ahole btw). Sure T*mmy told Buck he didn't think he was ready but that was really all he said. Buck was likely left feeling like he was being punished for having a moment where he acted out of fear. T*mmy could have shared an Uber with Buck and talked to him on the way home and they could have seen if they wanted things to continue. But it was like at the first sign of Buck needing more support he bailed.

------

3.

My personal feeling on the first kiss is that T*mmy really should have given something of an indication of his intentions before he kissed Buck.

Speaking as someone who is bi if I was into another woman and they were giving off the kind of vibes Buck was I wouldn't just jump in there and kiss them. I know they try to make everything more sexy for tv and it's the oldest trope in the book to have the hot guy grab the main's face and lay one on them but given all of the signals Buck was sending out T*mmy really should have gotten more confirmation beforehand.

I'm not accusing T*mmy of anything and clearly Buck liked the kiss and it was also clear in that loft scene he was attracted to T*mmy. Still the vibes he was giving off were also really nervous an unsure and he talked about Eddie 90% of the time literally moments before the kiss. Why jump in an kiss someone who seems that nervous and probably is into someone else? I don't know it's just issues I have with that scene.

----

4.

When it comes to a lot of the discourse I see around between Buddie shippers and B/T shippers I feel like a major difference is in how we perceive the show. I feel like a lot of B/T shippers mostly just take the show at face value. If something is written a certain way and presented that way to you on the screen you take that as exactly what the story is saying but you're missing the more subtle messages in the writing.

Like the whole scene with Buck, T*mmy, and Eddie in the karaoke bar had a lot going on beyond just what the dialogue was saying and it was likely missed by those who weren't paying attention.

Yeah T*mmy was on call and yeah that could be a reason why he didn't dress up. Although as many have pointed out there's plenty of things he could have worn that would have made it easy for him to quickly change and get to work and still put an ounce of effort into something that was clearly important to Buck.

But the not dressing up wasn't even the biggest issue it was that when Buck seemed hurt by the fact that T*mmy didn't care enough to dress up T*mmy was just like it's not that big of deal get over it (in the demeanor with which he responded). Obviously it was just a silly bachelor party one Chim didn't even show up to and no one else even dressed up for it (besides Eddie) but for me it's another red flag showing that T*mmy doesn't listen to Buck and doesn't have his back like a (potential) partner should.

Also you can defend T*mmy all you want but very deliberate choices were made with this Buddie and T*mmy scene. They chose to have Eddie arrive first and call a lot of attention to what he was wearing. Right before they had T*mmy come in and have that whole convo about his lack of costume to Buck.

Multiple times in the episode they pointed out that Buddie were wearing a couples costume and that Eddie is the one who picked it out. Not only were they matching in the bachelor party outfits but if you look at their outfits in the later scenes while looking for Chim they're coordinated like spouses there too.

They chose to have Eddie be the one to stay with Buck when everyone else left. They chose to have Buddie partying alone when they could have easily had T*mmy there. Especially when you consider this is a much shorter season every scene and every ep means even more than it would in a normal season. If they were trying to build B/T and get the audience to warm to them showing them partying even showing B/T partying with Eddie would have been a great time to do that instead they only focused on Buddie.

-------

5.

I'm happy for B/T shippers that you got your kissing scene at the end but here's what I saw. In a very overstuffed episode they chose to have a ton of Buddie stuff including having Buck and Eddie show up together multiple times while everyone was out looking for Chimney. Meanwhile B/T got one small scene (which included Eddie) in the beginning and one kiss at the end away from everyone else (that immediately cut to Eddie and Chris). The kiss didn't even feel like it's main purpose was to further develop the B/T relationship, it felt like it happened more to serve Buck's bi storyline so he could come out to everyone.

Also others have pointed this out but just because B/T have physical chemistry doesn't mean they have romantic chemistry. They seem like very different people. Too different in my opinion. In what little scenes of conversation they've actually had I just see two people who won't be compatible long term.

Juxtapose that with Eddie and Buck and just how much alike they are while at the same time being so uniquely themselves. How they're able to call each other out when they need to like when Eddie pointed out how it was maybe not the greatest idea for Buck to come out at his sister's wedding.

You can dislike Buddie and ship B/T all you want but you can't deny how all Buck and Eddie have to do is stand near each other and they exude chemistry and compatibility. People who don't even watch the show assume they're together and there's not even one scene of them kissing. Yet the main reason people ship B/T is because they're two hot guys who've kissed twice. There is no other real point of substance there. Now tell me again which fandom is guilty of fetishization here?

----

6.

You can call us the delusional ones all you want but EVERYTHING is screaming in your face that T*mmy isn't going to last forever. I don't even care if he comes back for season 8. T*mmy and B/T have a giant ticking clock over them and sooner or later their time will be up. There is no way Tim, the writers, ABC, Ryan, Oliver, etc would pass on the phenomenon that Buddie will be once it goes canon. The show already gets a ton of attention just from talking about the possibility of them going canon. Every single article where they even mention Buddie gets attention.

It's hilarious to me that you say the actors and showrunners are what rooting for B/T? In all the the interviews they talk about Buddie now. Tim literally was saying he cares about Buddie too in his response to a fan the other day. He literally said he included Buddie scene specifically for our fandom. Oliver is always posting and liking stuff related to his scenes with Ryan and Buddie. When Ryan gets to do interviews he gushes about Buddie and Oliver. Meanwhile B/T which is supposed to be the canon ship in this important queer storyline they're doing barely gets mentioned. Let me know when that same energy is being given to your ship.

[i-will-say-what-i-believe]

Okay. Fact time.

OS never cared about Buddie.

All he cared about was him getting importance over everyone else.

Its evident from all his interviews till s6. And now, that fact is just getting justified further.

Guy says he always played Buck as bi. But the fact is, he didn't.

That bi possibility ONLY came out when he was with Eddie & maybe TK. Not with any other man. AND OS was over the moon for mortalia being "THE couch" 🤢🤮 which completely eliminates the viability of his claim that he ALWAYS wanted Buck's sexuality explored.

Guy says the people who don't like Tommy & this plot are people who doesn't know how a story works.

And he does!? Because if he did, he wouldn't just dismiss the loyalty of one of the biggest fandoms after Destiel that kept the show in the forefront of social media all these years. If it was 1 person thinking so, it can be a mistake. There's LITERALLY tens of thousands of fans who have found Buddie on the show. Even when they had no idea about the ship before watching the show & realizing "wait....are they a thing!!??" out of the blue.

No wonder there are a lot of Buddie shippers who are hurt by his attitude, quitting the show. Not because they're h*moph*bic. But because he's been dismissing them & all the subtext that the show has thrown at them all these years without an inch of shame of taking advantage of it for all that time.

If he's so arrogant enough to think he alone can run the show, it won't be long until that ship sinks. Especially when the arrogance is directed to fans, the people who LITERALLY pay his bills, because if we don't watch his work, he'd be jobless.

People have been desperately grasping at straws with all the interviews he's been giving..."he knows something", "of course he can't straight up say he wants buddie... common", "that was a very good way of answering the question" etc etc.

Guess what... it WASN'T the best way to answer SUCH AN IMPORTANT question.

Of course he could say what he wanted. It wasn't like the interviewer asked what was going to happen.

I have always thought his quick answer of "I'm open to it" is SO ODD. Because THAT is not how someone who wants it will talk about it. I have felt it from the beginning. The first Ryliver live. That itself had sealed the deal that ALTHOUGH people desperately WANT Ryan to be the one OPPOSING Buddie (because that's the ONLY way that their h*te towards him will be justified), Ryan was the one who chose the ship name & talked about how Buddie is getting shipped every second. OS kept mum even then. His expressions & body language changed. As if he isn't so into it.

THAT has been going on every damn time Buddie was mentioned in interviews. As if he's not so keen to do it.

Let me say...his body language screams he didn't want to do the Timmy Turner kiss too. He's uncomfortable af. If you remove your "OMG OS is amazing" glasses off & view it as a critic, you'll get it in a second. He just seems to be in it because, again, his character is getting importance.

Among the 911 cast, there's no one MORE concerned about THEIR position, THEIR role, THEIR screen time etc as much as OS does. He'd promote the hell out of the lamest things if it meant he'll get attention . That's what happened in s6. Taking unethical advantage of the fandom's couch theory & promoting the mortalia track like a giddy kid & being over enthusiastic about "in another life"....all were the cry for attention. And the fandom fell for it.

THAT is what's happening now too. Plus he's copying words from other actors to make his "story" more interesting lol.

Anyway....guy has become more arrogant than he already was.

Arrogance NEVER ends well. History has it proved.

PS: People can try grasping at straws to support the guy & put him on a pedestal because he's a tantrum king. But don't @ me on this with your straws. Won't work. I don't like arguing with blind fans because you wouldn't EVER see sense even if it is ALL SHOVED ON YOUR FACE.

Truth is bitter & y'all are just proving it lol🤣

[letmetellyouaboutmyfeels]

Well. I guess today is the day I post this.

Putting this all below a cut to spare your dashes.

This statement will seem dramatic. I apologize. I don't know any other way to put this.

For a long time, I've felt unsafe in this fandom as a bisexual person.

At some point we got a new wave of people in this fandom (I can't pinpoint when since I never know anything that goes on in this godforsaken cesspit), and we started to get a growing wave of people talking about Eddie as a gay man, rather than bisexual or queer or ambiguous/unlabeled in his sexuality.

It was something I could easily ignore at first. I didn't agree with it, but I rolled my eyes and kept on keepin' on. It didn't really affect me. I had my own little corner and that was that.

But as time has gone on, it's become so popular and pervasive that every time I turn around, I'm running into it. It seems to be (but might not be, I could be wrong) the more popular interpretation of Eddie.

For example, I got an ask at the beginning of February, asking me what was wrong with gay Eddie, since it seems to be the "general consensus." Additionally, there was a podcast episode an anthropology student made where the host said that they have also seen people have generally decided Eddie is gay, not bi or queer. I'm not the only one who's noticed this and decided this is the general/most popular opinion of the fandom.

And I'm here to say that it's unbelievably hurtful.

It's not a new thing for people to dismiss Shannon. And let me tell you, it brings me no joy to defend her. I deeply, deeply dislike her and always have. But I must, because whether I like her or not doesn't matter as much as her importance to Eddie and her role in his life. Not just as Christopher's mother, but as his first love and as his wife.

However, over the past year or so there's been a serious shift within the fandom to ignore or gloss over Shannon, and to paint Eddie as a gay man who has always been gay, and never been attracted to women, and never wanted to sleep with one. Even though, canonically, he and Shannon jumped right back into bed together and wouldn't stop fucking every time they met up, despite that choice being detrimental to their relationship and preventing them from discussing important things.

Eddie was so busy fucking his wife like a rabbit in springtime that he couldn't settle down and talk with her. He fucked her repeatedly even though he didn't fully trust her with their son anymore. If that's not thinking with your dick I don't know what is.

Eddie's grief over Shannon's loss and his complicated feelings about her (his love for her vs his anger at her choices vs his own poor self-esteem) haunted him throughout season three. It's why he joined the fight club. It haunts him in season four, when he chooses to date Ana to give Chris a substitute mother even though he is not yet ready to date/move on from Shannon.

Even if I put on my Buddie shipper goggles and say, "what about Buck?" I do not think it makes any sense whatsoever for Eddie to be aware of his feelings for Buck pre-shooting. I think that is the moment he realizes what his heart wants and where he's chosen to love again. Not before.

Bobby moving on with Athena does in no way erase his love for his previous wife, and he went through a process similar to Eddie - in fact that similarity is part of why Bobby sees so much of himself in Eddie and why he tries to give Eddie advice on the subject. But I have to wonder, if Bobby had dated Michael instead of Athena, if the fandom would react the same way they do with Eddie - if they would claim Bobby was gay the whole time, and never truly felt sexual attraction for his wife.

I know Shannon is a disliked character by and large (I'm one of the people who dislikes her) and that her relationship with Eddie was complicated. Eddie wasn't always happy in his relationship with her. But neither was Athena, and yet the fact she was once attracted to and in love with Michael is never questioned.

Eddie is simply not allowed nuance in his relationship with Shannon. He is not allowed (as Bobby and Athena are) to have a complicated relationship with his spouse or to move on with another character while not denying his previous attraction to her. Eddie's relationship with Shannon is reduced to something he did because he had to, without any genuine sexual attraction, and without any sexual enjoyment. He is allowed to love her, but to never have been in love with her.

Eddie's biggest arc and piece of character development for two whole seasons (seasons two and three, arguably parts of season four) are erased.

The underlying message, whether intended or not, is that they are erased because they do not matter. And they do not matter because if they did, Eddie would be bi, or queer, or anything except 100% homosexual. And that means that the underlying message is that being gay is more important, more valid, and better than bisexuality.

I'm not saying this message is intentional. Frankly I don't think it is. I'm saying it is there.

And of course, when others have pointed out that this is hurtful and erases a big part of Eddie's history, and that therefore makes them feel ignored and erased as a bisexual person, there's been hostility. Some of it's been openly hostile and frankly feels like fighting for the sake of fighting, the kind of self-righteous love of blood in the water that has kept me a lurker in fandoms for so long.

The more insidious hurt, for me, is the people who refuse to publicly support people who call out the biphobia. They say nothing when people talk about how they're attacked for pointing out the issues with gay!Eddie, or they support both gay!Eddie and bi!Eddie sides, depending on the time of day and who's saying it. It makes me distrusting of a lot of people who try to tell me they support me. How can I believe you when you turn around and agree with the people saying Eddie's gay? Reblogging posts and championing it?

At best it feels like being accidentally hurtful while supporting/being open to multiple headcanons. At worst it feels like lying to placate me.

I don't appreciate being placated.

Fandom can give a skewed perspective on things such as representation in media. I understand that many people who identify as 6 on the Kinsey Scale have struggled deeply with repression, self-loathing, ignorance, and compulsive heterosexuality. I understand wanting that representation, especially in an older character when it feels like a lot of our media is still about queer teenagers rather than queer adults (especially queer adults over the age of thirty). And so with many slash ships having to deal with the existence of opposite-sex love interests in the characters comprising that ship, bisexuality can feel like the norm when in reality, characters who are gay (whether they always knew it or discover it later) are still much more prevalent than bisexual characters in media.

For example, in Our Flag Means Death we have Stede. In IT, Richie is inferred to be gay rather than bi (god forbid they confirm Eddie K's gayness but that's another matter...) In fact, in 9-1-1 alone, we have Michael. There's also the matter of who gets to be gay and who gets to be bi. In Glee, for example, Santana is the one who gets the nuanced coming-out story with drama and depth. Brittany, her bisexual girlfriend, doesn't get nearly as much attention or thought, and off-screen cheats on Santana in a staggering moment of biphobia (a decision the likes of which Ryan Murphy is not-so-affectionately known for).

Yet from people who headcanon Eddie as gay I repeatedly see the rallying cry of "letting us have this," as if 'this' is something they never get, or get less than bisexual people. Again, I understand the way fandom might skew things. But we cannot allow the broken goggles of fandom to, in turn, blinker our reality of the media landscape. Bisexuality is still less represented, and the wounds of "oh being with X man is nothing like all those women I was with, this is special and real" are still fresh (looking at you, Destiel shippers circa 2009-2012).

In fact as I out myself here as uh one of those veterans, I implore people to understand how this was the norm for so, so many years. Fandom has a short memory, I get it. It's hard to keep track of everything. But this embrace of bisexuality is rather recent. You look around and you see, for example, people happily joking about Dean Winchester's bisexuality. That was not always the case. For a long time, it was about perpetuating biphobia and casual misogyny as shippers wrote meta and fic about how no woman could ever make him feel like Cas does.

*pause for war flashbacks*

This was not the only instance or fandom. But I don't have time to name all the examples. My point is that there is a false collective narrative. My point is that when you are hurt, and have struggled, it can be hard to see that others have also been hurt and have also struggled. My point is that there is a continued instinct to put a certain type of character in one box and another type of character in a different box, and to try and expand the boxes, or move one character to another, is treated as a personal attack rather than an expansion of our understanding and a dismantling of our stereotypes.

Why is it always the character who has a lot of sex and/or is super comfortable on the subject of sex, or is very casual about sex, who gets to be bi/pan/fluid in sexuality? Why are bi people never allowed to be reserved, or have only one or two partners in their life?

Why is the character who is casual (or seems like they will be casual) and relaxed about sexuality the one who is labeled bisexual? Why are bisexuals never allowed to have angst around their sexuality or come out later in life? Why is our pain, our internal struggle, never allowed to be discussed?

I'm not saying Buck should be viewed as gay. I think it's correct to talk about him as bi/pan/queer. But I do think it's fair to examine why Buck's relationship with Abby is viewed in its proper important context while Eddie's relationship with Shannon is diminished and ignored.

Buck gets to talk about Abby. He gets to have genuinely been in love with her. He gets to retain that piece of his character. Eddie does not. Eddie's relationship with Shannon ended up hurting him just as much as Buck's relationship with Abby, in fact even more so, and yet people handwave that away as compulsive heterosexuality (which is not restricted to gay people, by the way, bi people experience that as well) and act like he didn't actually fall in love with her and have repeated enthusiastic sex with her.

People love to tout Ana as proof that Eddie is gay, but it doesn't matter what your sexuality is - if you aren't attracted to someone and you don't want them touching you, then you don't want them touching you. If you don't want to have sex with someone, you don't want to have sex with someone. Your sexuality doesn't matter. Just because a man is straight doesn't mean he wants to have sex with all women. Just because a man is gay doesn't mean he wants to have sex with all men. Just because a person is bi doesn't mean they want to have sex with everyone on the planet. And just because someone is asexual doesn't mean they have no libido or would never have sex at all for another reason (intimacy, fun, etc.). Sexual desire and drive are a very personal things, and both romantic and sexual attraction can play various roles or no role at all depending on the individual.

Eddie’s refusal to sleep with Ana or touch her is not a sign of him being gay as opposed to bi or queer or any other sexuality. It’s not a sign of any sexuality at all. It’s a sign that he was forcing himself into that relationship. He didn't want to be with Ana. He didn't love Ana. He didn't want to have sex with Ana.

Now, do I think how he broke up with her - his words about "the idea of us" - is insanely queer? Yes. Yes I do. And yes, for the record, I think that was deliberate on the part of the writers. But that simply says to me that he's queer. Not gay, not bi, not pan, not demi, not anything other than not straight.

To take that speech and those words and to say they could only possibly apply to a fully 100% gay man as opposed to anyone under the queer umbrella is hurtful. People's experiences as gay people are valid, and often, sadly, painful and just like Eddie's. But so are people's experiences as bi people, as pan people, as unlabeled people, as 'queer as in fuck you' people.

To wit: People ignore canonical evidence about Shannon, and claim canonical evidence about Ana as their own and no one else's, in order to support their interpretation of Eddie's sexuality.

That erases the rest of us.

I know that's hard to hear. I know that sounds like it comes with judgment. You are trying to speak your own truth, and you are identifying strongly with a character that you love, and it's hard to then hear that in doing those things, you are hurting or erasing others. I've had to hear that in my time, and I'm sure I'll have to hear it again, and it's never easy. But we must sit with this discomfort as our friend, not our foe, and use it to grow.

However, since fandom is our safe space, we often view anything and everything as a personal attack, and we often make judgments and interpretations based too strongly on our own experiences. Sometimes this is a good thing - I think the number of people who say Buck reminds them of their own ADHD are correct and that it adds great depth to his character. I'm glad Oliver has embraced it. I think the people who say Eddie speaks to their own demisexuality have a great point and I think it adds nuance to his character and behavior.

(In fact I also love trans!Buck headcanons! I think they're neat and I've read some fics I enjoyed that featured that.)

On the other hand, however, it often leads to people adding interpretations onto things that do not reflect canon or the actual character. They then view others pointing out the lack of support for this in canon, or the contradiction with canon, as a personal attack (looking at you, "Chim is abusive" people, go jump in a lake). It's hard to take that breath and recognize that not everything a character is or does or experiences is the same as what you are, or do, or have experienced. Especially when it touches on something as personal and important as our sexuality.

Because of this, I debated a long time on whether I should say something. I tried to identify the difference between what hurt me because it didn't line up with my thoughts and what hurt me because of actual stereotyping. I worked to make sure that this was more than simply taking an innocuous difference of opinion and twisting it into a personal attack.

Which brings me to why I say the word 'unsafe'. That seems like an extreme word. But I've seen people say that they "got a brain" and realized Eddie was gay, not bi. I've seen people take gifsets that mention Eddie being bi and tag them 'okay but I believe in gay!Eddie' or 'I'm a gay!Eddie truther'. I've seen people go out of their way in fics to mention Eddie disliking/being grossed out by female genitalia. I've seen fanartists put Eddie in gay colors/flags as opposed to bi/demi/etc colors/flags, on art that really didn't need it to convey the story - as if one cannot make a piece of art with Eddie on it without declaring one's opinion on his sexuality.

(Yes, I think there's a strong possibility that Eddie is demisexual. I wish people would embrace that idea more. Personally, I think he wouldn't label himself at all and simply say he was queer if asked. But given the discussion we're having right now on this post about gay/bi headcanons, I think it's clear a lot of people actually aren't as ready to embrace or consider minority sexualities as they might like to think.)

I repeat: this is not just happening on a person's own art or post or fanfic. People are reblogging posts, gifsets, and so on that mention bisexual Eddie and saying, okay but I see him as gay. They are not content to live and let live. They are actively saying they disagree. If you disagree, then why reblog the thing that talks about/mentions Eddie as bi? Why not simply leave it be?

I cannot overstate how hurtful this is; how much it feels like erasure, dismissal, and condescension.

You cannot tell me if that was something you saw about your gender, or sexuality, or so on, that you wouldn't begin to feel unsafe. That you wouldn't begin to question if you would be unheard, or dismissed, or viewed as less-than. Tell me you wouldn't start to wonder, if you were a character on a TV show, if people wouldn't erase your sexual and romantic history and ignore a big piece of yourself because certain sexualities just weren't good enough for them.

You cannot tell me that in seeing these things you wouldn't walk away with the idea that bisexuality (or other sexualities in general but bisexuality is the one brought up and to which being gay is compared in regards to Eddie) is viewed as lesser to these people, and to the community at large. You cannot tell me that some people are not internalizing this narrative, no matter what their own sexuality might be.

And, yes, reading that earlier paragraph you might say, "Mads, are you vagueing?" That is not my intention. I want to head off at the pass the rebuttal that this isn't happening. I want to cut off the demand for examples. However, I'm also not going to name names, because I don't wish to cause harm to people who I think, by and large, are well-meaning.

That's what I'm hoping is true, in writing this. That most of the people reading this, and pushing the Eddie-is-gay narrative, are well-meaning. "I'm bi myself!" many of you will say.

Yes, well. I'm a woman and I was perfectly capable of a lot of misogynistic thinking growing up, and I often fell into sexist stereotypes in my headcanons and writing and so on.

But I hope, since most of you are well-meaning, this post will instead cause you to think, and examine, and ponder.

I'm sure many people reading this are rolling their eyes and thinking, "what about the first rule of fandom? Ship and let ship? Kink tomato? Etc? Let people have different headcanons." I've certainly seen such flippant remarks from people before on this very subject in this fandom.

And the thing is, I have really tried to do that. I have tried to take it that way. But I think that it's also entirely fair for me to be hurt when a person's headcanon/interpretation ignores canon and erases a big part of a character's life and history.

I know, I know, we could get into a big philosophical discussion about how slash and femslash shipping by nature does something along those lines. But I feel that in the now-common interpretation of Eddie as gay, there is a pushing of stereotypes about both gay and bisexual people. There is a splitting of hairs on queerness. There is a subtext, whether acknowledged or not by those who push this interpretation, that being gay as opposed to a more fluid sexuality is more painful, more fraught, more challenging. That bisexuality, pansexuality, queerness as an umbrella term - those are less fraught and inherently easier. It's one of the pillars upon which exclusion in the queer community is based.

It also, generally, ignores the idea that one's sexuality can change over time. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe most people with the interpretation of Eddie as gay actually view him as being gay now and that's how he identifies now without erasing his canonical (and important) sexual and romantic attraction to Shannon. But that doesn't seem to be the case, and I certainly don't want to risk myself emotionally by trying to find out.

Not to mention that hey, when people are saying something is hurtful to them, seeing people make posts hand-waving and saying "get over yourselves, relax, take a chill pill" feels beyond condescending and dismissive.

I'd like to make it clear, I'm not asking for people to never write Eddie as gay, and that we should never see Eddie as gay again in this fandom, or that anyone who writes Eddie as gay should be dogpiled. I'm not the boss of anyone, I'm not the fandom police, I don't make the rules. But I think, when a certain behavior brings people pain - and more people than just myself, as I have learned in many private conversations - there comes a time when the least one can do is speak up about it.

Sometimes someone needs to be the one to stand up and say, "this hurts me. I am in pain, and this is why."

Again, especially when people are going out of their way to say "but I disagree, he's gay" on posts, gifsets, and so on mentioning Eddie having a different sexuality. You might feel this post is unnecessary. You might feel it's preachy. You might feel I should shut up and get off my high horse.

But the fact of the matter is when you come into someone's house tracking mud and they tell you to clean it up, you don't get to yell at them and claim they are trying to stop you from playing outside.

I kept my silence on this for a long time and part of that was I didn't want to police anyone. Now, however, we are at a point where people who think Eddie is gay are invading other people's spaces. It's not just that this headcanon is everywhere. It's not just that people are using such dismissive language when the possibility of Eddie liking women comes up. It is also that people are going out of their way to dismiss Eddie's bisexuality and argue that their interpretation is better on posts about Eddie being bi.

So frankly, I don't think anyone gets to walk away from this scoffing "don't like don't read" at me when nobody else around here is offering me that courtesy. If I could avoid reading it, I would. You came into my house, and the house of everyone else who makes a post, a fic, a gif, about Eddie being anything except a Kinsey 6.

Yes, reblogs are turned off for this. Anon is also turned off. You might say that's cutting off discussion, and you would be right. The blunt truth is I don't trust people online to respond with thoughtfulness, good faith, and care. I don't trust people to take their time and think before shooting off an emotional, defensive response. And I don't care to spend my time and energy educating people.

Maybe if I was a better person - a more social, more patient, and less private person - I would be the kind of person who would have the long hard discussions to educate and share my thoughts, to help you see my side. But that's not who I am, and I certainly don't owe it to anyone, not a single person here, to scrounge up my nonexistent trust and goodwill to have that discussion with you.

I've said my piece on this. I'm sure my tone seems harsh. The tone with which this is actually written is weariness, exhaustion, and, yes, nausea. It makes one sick and wears one down, to feel so on edge in a space and yet to try and ignore that to find joy anyway. Because I get a lot of joy in sharing my fics, and reblogging gifsets and meta, and I don't want to lose that joy.

But I suppose it needs to be said. I know others have said it, but I hope that I have said all this with enough calm and articulation that it will truly be understood, and it will not start drama or discourse, because that's not what I want. Truly. I spent enough of 2020 being dragged into one piece of bullshit drama after another. I'm not interested in wading back into that. I've kept pretty extreme radio silence for a reason.

My hope is simply for people to step back and take a long hard look at why they've decided one half of our ship is gay, and one half is bi, and what that might say about their subconscious stereotypes about gay and bi people.

If I've gotten you to do that, then this post is worth it.

I'm sorry I don't have any answers. I'm sure this would be a lot easier for people to read if I ended it with "and here's what to do moving forward." I think the desire to provide answers - for themselves and for others - is what drives people to make posts that condemn, or get aggressive, or seem to simply be out there to shut people up. People want to have a solution. They want the problem to go away.

I don't have a solution. I don't have answers for anyone. I truly wish I did. Part of why I've waited so long in posting this is trying to come up with a way to end this that would give people actionable steps. But at the end of the day, all I can really say is that I hope the people reading this will do some internal searching, and thoughtful discussion, and understand better the subconscious choices we make, the biases we hold, and how we can hurt people without meaning to.

I don't want apologies. I say that with love - I'm not looking for people to self-flagellate before me or make some kind of mea culpa post. I don't think that would help anything, and I don't think anyone owes that to me. Frankly I'm not interested in public discussion, and if there are posts others make about this, I don't want to see them.

You can make posts on your blog ranting about me (just please don't tag me, again, I don't want to see it). You can discuss this in your discord groups. You can vagueblog about me and chat about me in DMs. I don't care. I'd just like people to hear me say, "I am hurt, and you are hurting me, and I know it's not intentional, but this is why." Anything else is up to you. Any changes, in thought or behavior, are up to you. Probably nothing will change. But at least I've said something, and I've tried.

Thank you for reading this far, and I hope you have a great day. Stay safe and take care of yourself.

[sky-is-the-limit]

The bucktommy shippers really don’t understand anything related to this show to a baffling degree. A lot of them have literally just started watching the show since bi Buck became canon and they just have no clue what they’re talking about. I have been here since the beginning of season 3, and have been a dedicated Buddie shipper not because I just want to see men kiss but because they genuinely have the potential to be an amazing queer slowburn and their chemistry is top tier. Anyway I just want to say a few things.

Firstly, we don’t dislike the finale because of one 55 scene bffr. We dislike the finale because it took away a daughter from a lesbian couple and gave her to a straight couple (albeit probably temporarily), because the pacing was super weird and nothing seemed to have any emotional weight, and because they brought back a geriatric racist misogynist freak of a man for no reason.

Also the “Ryan doesn’t want Eddie to be gay” stuff is nonsense. Ryan is literally the person who came up with Buddie as a shipname, I’m dead serious him and Oliver were discussing what it would be and Ryan picked Buddie! He’s been supportive of the ship since the very beginning. He’s always said that he’s open to the possibility of Buddie happening. Him referring to Eddie as heterosexual means literally nothing because Oliver was also obviously not calling Buck bi before it became canon in the show. Ryan calls Eddie hetero because that’s canon, he can’t just say whatever he has to stick to what is shown in the show. Also they’re very conveniently forgetting the interviews with Ryan that were released after the finale in which he says that Eddie is no longer looking for a mother for Chris, that with Buck he can see what it’s like to have someone at his side to always have his back as opposed to how it was with his ex-wife, and he also used the word partner and referred to Eddie’s future love interest in a gender neutral way.

On top of that Oliver is a very transparent guy, he’s an actor but he can’t pretend to like people or storylines for the life of him. When Buck was together with Taylor, Oliver made it very clear how much he hated that ship on his social media. Now with BuckTommy he never shares or interacts with anything from that ship, the only time he did was some fanart of their first kiss and that makes a lot of sense because that’s when bi Buck became canon. But since then, not a word from him, the only things he posts and interacts with are Buddie related or just more generally related to the whole show. It’s very clear what his preference is, and even though he isn’t the writer he’s still number 3 on the call sheet and if he cannot be bothered to put his all into BuckTommy scenes because he hates that ship, eventually the writers won’t really have a choice.

Also anyone with common sense can tell after that finale that Buddie are endgame, it’s so incredibly clear which ship has the chemistry and emotional depth to last in the long-term, and it’s not the ones in that 55 second scene.

I hear you!!!

My main concern with this entire discourse, is that people are putting words into the acotrs' mouths and share it as factual.

I don't have much to add due to my extremely limited (to zero) knowledge but yesterday I watched another episode from s6 (I tune in whenever they show a random episode at 2am 😭) where Buck passed out on Eddie's couch as he was getting them beers and that was such a cute, intimate scene!! I can definitely see the chemistry between the characters.

[bucksdaffy]

this is the same anon who sent the flirting question, thank you for answering with kindness in respect! there's a lot less of that going on in this fandom than i'm used to. i will say, we have different interpretations of the scenes and also the characters, but similar opinions about some things which is nice. i definitely don't need buddie to be canon for me to enjoy the ship, but i do think it would be a it would be a great oppurtunity to see a queer slow burn on mainstream media that hadn't originally intended to start out that way. i've thought that since i started watching in s4, but i never thought we might actually get it.

i think for the flirting, and you can totally have platonic friendly banter! i just never interpreted their scenes that way, and the way buck and tommy were together kind of sealed that for me. if that makes sense? i get what you mean about it not being canon, but isn't the same true for it not being not canon? in the sense that buck didn't know he was bi until ep4 and so if he was flirting with eddie in some scenes, it could have been unintentional. in highschool i did that, and i didn't figure it out until months later that i'd been very clearly flirting with this girl (my best friend pointed it out to me, i was oblivious lol)

sorry this got so long, i spent some not great time looking through 911twt and awful stuff is being said on both sides (firmly in the multi shipping, i think a bucktommy endgame could be so cute if they did it right) so i hope this translates as kind as yours did!

yeah, it's nice to have a civil conversation with someone who doesn't necessarily think the way you do. it should honestly be the standard. and it's sad people on both sides can be so vile. sometimes it's just better to avoid such spaces altogether for the sake of our well-being.

i'm of the opinion that if the writers do decide to take buck and eddie down that road eventually, and they do it right, i definitely won't mind them dating each other (although i would, personally, see the story as much less valuable than what they are trying to showcase now). so it's not like i'm totally opposed to the idea, because i saw what many buddie shippers see when i was watching s2 (although, in hindsight, i do think that what i saw back then was only bi buck; eddie, unfortunately, never gave me any queer vibes, so i'd need A LOT of convincing from the show itself to believe that putting buck and eddie together wasn't forced). but i believe that later on they did a pretty good job establishing that their bond is, in fact, very much platonic, and that's why at the moment romantic buddie doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

i also think it could have been a good opportunity to see a queer romantic slow burn in mainstream media, actually. however, i don't think buddie necessarily falls into that category (anymore). i'd definitely be of different opinion if the show consistently gave us hints of any attraction or hidden feelings that you don't have to try to see, but i'm sad to say none of their scenes in the later seasons provided me with that. i saw someone say something along the lines of "for a slow burn to happen, there has to be something burning, and buddie might be on the stove, but the heat is just not turned on". and honestly, i couldn't agree more.

when it comes to the kitchen scene, i do think your interpretation makes sense. if you think there IS something between buck and eddie, that interaction would definitely be one of the reasons someone could argue they are right. and i think it's a valid argument, especially after we saw how buck behaved when tommy visited him in the loft, because at the end of the day, you're right – buck was being playful with both of them. so, it's not like i'm totally baffled by your interpretation of the scene and think it's completely out of the blue. it's not.

and you're right about it not being not canon. that is why i try to emphasize that this is where we are at the moment, because everything can change in a matter of seconds. but given the current status of buck and eddie's bond, which the show highlights as being very much platonic, i'd say it is far more likely that the interactions between them are and have always been canonically platonic rather than romantic. the fact that right now they are just friends in canon supports the view that their early interactions were always platonic far more than it supports the view that they were romantic in nature. buck being confirmed as bi makes this a more likely possibility, but since eddie is still canonically straight, it's hard to make a case on both fronts. but, again, it can all change with just one moment, the same way it happened with buck's sexuality. yes, he has always been bisexual, but canonically, there was no valid reason to assume that buck is anything other than straight before 7x04. does that make sense?

so yeah, ultimately we can't say something is 100% canon or 100% not canon if it was not addressed in the show. but we can assume the more likely possibility based on how the events play out, and that's why i insist canon supports only the platonic view of their interactions right now.

but as i said, i do respect your perspective, and i think it has a potential to be canon in the future, should the show take that route.

[scoupsahoy]

people keep asking why people are mad at buddie shippers but did they miss the one/ones who spammed ao3 with fic where tommy sexually abused kids or was violently murdered by eddie? or the entire blog dedicated to wanting him to be murdered or subjected to prison rape? or the queer men in this fandom being called predators or slurs for relating to a canon gay character? the tweet with more than 1.2k likes that uses a homophobic slur to describe eddie in the context of buddie, written by a cis lesbian? people saying there would be no point in gay eddie or there is no point in bi buck if they don't get together? the buddie shippers spamming the official accounts and the cast and crew with hate comments on instagram? like damn i love buddie and bucktommy but i wouldn't admit that i like buddie at this point.

yeah i mean there are points that i agree with you here and also points where i disagree with you BUT i'm really not here for that reason at all. like. i'm afraid the discussion is becoming "and well this side is also doing bad shit" and i'm like

i have less than 200 followers. i have probably less than 25 followers who even know what this is about. i don't get asks like EVER and no one is going to be checking my account for follow ups because i truly do not matter in this fandom. and the reason i don't even try is BECAUSE there is a lack of meaningful discourse that i actually care about. a lot of the discourse is a competition to see who is the most evil side of the fandom

my entire point is that it is a catch 22. if you ship buddie you are homophobic and you harass the cast and crew. if you ship bucktommy you are racist and harass the showrunners. there is no room for multishipping there is no room for any kind of meaningful discussion as to whether or not tommy kinard has even made a single decision in the entire show. there is no room for people to explore his character in any meaningful way

i appreciate this ask and i appreciate your perspective but everything you're saying in this ask is exactly what i'm talking about. there are people who like this tv show or who like a certain ship who are doing some heinous shit and it is effecting not only people's opinions on the ships, but if it effecting people's opinions on the people who ship it.

you do not need to justify disliking something by proving that it is problematic!! you do not need to justify liking something by proving that it is morally upright!! i'm serious!! release yourself from that shit!! whether or not YOU are a good or bad person actually has nothing to do with your interests!! you seem like a perfectly fine good person who is hurt by this shit just as much as i am and that SUCKS

my post wasn't aimed at buddie fans because i think they are all evil horrible people, or even most of them. i was complaining because of general fandom attitudes that i KNOW no one wants to be a part of are being upheld anyway and it is discouraging meaningful discourse of any kind. and honestly this was mainly aimed at like 5 pretentious condescending big name fans on tiktok who feel the need to morally justify never shutting the fuck up about tommy kinard when no one who watches their videos even fucking likes him anyway