#if crowley can still love humans & earth even though god made them

[extraaa-30]

remember, good omens fandom:

the idea of a creator disappointing us isn't new.

it hurts, for sure, to realize the one who created something we love may actually be shittier than we thought. that while we trusted them to play their unknowable games ("wait and see...") they were in fact at best as flawed as anyone else and at worst a mf predator.

maybe we find it hard to trust that creator ever again.

but that's okay. because honestly, the creation doesn't belong to them anymore. it hasn't for a while.

what they created belongs to earth.

[fellthemarvelous]

"I forgive you."

I can't help but wonder...

And I have a lot of feelings around "I forgive you" because, to me, it goes so much deeper than that.

I think we need to go back to the very first scene of season two.

Before the Beginning

Aziraphale is the first one to reach out. Yes, Crowley called him over for help, but Aziraphale is the one who introduced himself. Crowley wasn't expecting him to stick around for so long. He probably didn't think to introduce himself in return because, as he said in episode 6, angels are like bees (and the universe is huge).

When Crowley becomes upset at Aziraphale's explanation of people and Earth, Aziraphale is confused because "you can't just ask God this shit, how rude", but you see the look on his face when Crowley asks how much trouble he can get into for asking a few questions.

It was more than the fact that Aziraphale said something that made Crowley want to question God. He was looking at Crowley. He saw Crowley's wings become darker. It made him anxious, but why?

He was scared of Crowley getting into trouble, but why would he worry about that? What did it mean to him? How would he know? Why would he know? Had Aziraphale already been scolded for being curious?

And the thing he was scared of came true. Crowley got into trouble and he became one of the fallen.

"Unforgivable. That's what I am." (Unforgettable. That's what you are.)

As far as I can tell, Aziraphale never even learned Crowley's angel name (unless Crowley was so famous as an angel that he needed no introduction), but their chance meeting still changed the trajectory of both of their existences.

Why did Crowley fall? Why didn't Aziraphale?

It is something that weighs heavily on Aziraphale's mind. The name he goes by on Earth is A.Z. Fell, and the humans refer to him as Mr. Fell. He chose that name for himself.

He was unable to save Crowley from Hell in Edinburgh and it changed both of them once more. I've already talked about Edinburgh being Aziraphale's Greatest Failure™️ in this post a little bit, which feeds further into the guilt that Aziraphale probably feels when it comes to Crowley's status as a demon.

For 6,000 years, they have had to speak to each other in code.

"Unforgivable. That's what I am." (Unforgettable. That's what you are.)

I think when Aziraphale is saying "I forgive you" he is telling Crowley that it doesn't matter what Crowley does, Aziraphale is going to love him anyway.

Aziraphale can't say "I love you" though because Heaven is always watching. Hell is always watching. Someone is always watching. The last thing Aziraphale wants is for Crowley to suffer more than he already has, and that's where Aziraphale struggles the most.

But I also think that, deep down, Aziraphale is asking Crowley to forgive him. Aziraphale freely forgives because even though he's never fallen himself, he struggles with the guilt of what happened to Crowley. He sees Crowley's fall as unjust.

He tried to warn angel Crowley against the idea of making any suggestions because he feared what would happen.

He lost Crowley in Edinburgh because they had fallen into a pattern of role reversal and Crowley did a good deed in front of Gabriel's statue, which I've also discussed before.

Aziraphale is saying "I forgive you" the way humans say "I love you", and I think that deep down he wants to hear Crowley say "I forgive you too" because Aziraphale can't forgive himself for the part he believes he played in Crowley's fall.

The Metatron was watching when Aziraphale said "I forgive you". Aziraphale is already in enough trouble, which I have discussed before. Twice we have seen Aziraphale say "I forgive you" to Crowley, and both of those times were after Crowley insulted him.

"How can someone as clever as you be so stupid?" "You idiot, we could have been...us."

"I forgive you" is and always has been "I love you" in coded language because Aziraphale worries nonstop about Crowley getting into trouble with Hell (again). He's telling Crowley that no matter what he does, Aziraphale will always forgive Crowley because he loves Crowley.

But I also think he's looking for forgiveness himself because he internalizes his own failures so much that it's eating him alive. (This is common for people who have suffered religious abuse.)

And this is something I don't know that Crowley understands just yet because neither of them talk about what's really important.

[ellestra]

Ideological differences

The difference between Crowley and Aziraphale is that one understands that the problem with Heaven is a systemic issue and the other still believes it's a "bad apples" problem.

It may seem weird that it took so little time for Gabriel and Beelzebub to understand that their personal connection matters to them more than the institutions they run but I think that;s exactly the reason why. They were both on top of those institutions and knew exactly how little they can do to change them despite of all the power of Supreme Archangel and Grand Duke of Hell. We see it the moment Gabriel tries to go against the institution just a little bit by saying no to another go at Apocalypse and he's immediately removed.

Crowley was clearly very high in the hierarchy of Heaven before he fell. It seems he was so high that, like they planned to do with Gabriel, they removed his memories to avoid it looking like a institutional problem (even though it's clearly an institutional problem). But he still remembers enough to know there is no reforming the institution because he already tried.

He asked the questions. He let them know about the issues. All it got him was memory wipe and getting kicked out. He became the bad guy because system is always just and it's always right.

This is basically what undermines their relationship because Aziraphale still hasn't learnt what Crowley discovered then. He still believes all the little rebellions he had to do were just because the leadership didn't understand what is going on because they are too detached. But if he's in charge he can, surely, surely, make them see the light.

Season 1 made it seem like everyone in Heaven are stuck up assholes and then it's easy to think if only there was a good person in charge it would be different and that's where Aziraphale is at. But this season clearly shows that there is no chance at that. There is no reforming the institution. It's always going to default to what it is because it was designed that way. But Aziraphale has to try so he can learn for himself.

Yes, he and Crowley are both on the same page about humans and Earth and the Universe having intrinsic value independent of the purpose it was created for (and they both know they love each other). They agree that humans should be able to decide their future independent of what was written (by God or Agnes Nutter). They just are not on the same page on how it should be dealt with because Aziraphale still wants Heaven to be the guide and Crowley would be happy to burn it all down.

And love is not enough to solve this ideological divide because it means they each imagine very different futures together. There is no middle ground on this and love is not enough to bridge it.

Aziraphale has to find out what Crowley already knows that all you can't fix a system like that - all you can do is to subvert it. You have to work outside of it because once you inside of it it will always grind you down to fit it.

He has to learn that the people you care about always have to matter more than the system or some abstract good it purports to achieve. And once that happens we can only hope Crowley will be able to forgive him.

[elahogn]

6 episodes of Good Omens 2 and a sleep later. I do have some thoughts.

This whole season is a further emphasis on selfishness, selflessness, and free will. More spoilers under the cut.

Over and over again, in both s1 and 2, the narration repeats that angels and demons are workers. They do their duty to keep Heaven and Hell going by either satisfying God's will or Satan's will. The angels never question why they do things. Those who questioned would "vaguely saunter downwards" like Crowley. The main quality to be an angel is not being selfless or selfish, but void of any self to exist at all. Any sign of a 'self' by questioning why they do certain thing would be deemed not fit for Heaven anymore. The opening scene of s2 with the 2 angels definitely leaned in the implication. Aziraphale was not questioning anything and purely stating the facts of God's plan. Crowley showed a sign of self by having significant pride in his work with the nebula and questioning God's plan, which started his vaguely downwards journey. In the bet about Job, Aziraphale did certain things that he believed would send him downwards but turned out didn't. Because, what Aziraphale did was showing trust, not questioning. He started to trust Crowley on not hurting children and animals and his ability to find a roundabout way out of situations. And he believed in God's plan. The execution was slightly altered, but God's plan was carried out till the end.

And now we have an angel who spent so much time on Earth and started doing goods for his own satisfaction and a demon, who, without any question, do most things for himself. At the start of s1, we still see Aziraphale and Crowley 'diligently' doing their duty, performing little miracles or temptations as per their job descriptions. By the end of s1, they started to act on their own freewill, like human, with motivation started from their want to keep the present as they liked. They have formed their own side on the foundation of this. Somewhere along the way of their journey on Earth, Aziraphale started doing miracles to satisfy himself, finding triumph in these actions, though he still thinks that's just his duty to be the good one. In s2, when they have their own side, Aziraphale still loves to brag about his miracles of good with Crowley even when he doesn't have to report his work to anyone anymore. And Crowley, doing most things for himself, always in his own way. Forming an allegiance with an angel, indulging in things that he likes like the Bentley, the clothes, the alcohol, the plants, and his angel with the little bookshop.

At the end of s1, they learn to act on their free will. And in s2, they slowly fall into selfishness. They glowed like a freaking beacon when they tried to hide Gabriel. They were not doing it for Gabriel. They were covering their own ass. Any point that the tone of the story picked up is when either of them are acting for each other or, for someone else's sake and learning to be selfless. Crowley did his threatening miracle to the wee lass in Edinburgh to not take her life; Aziraphale and his trickery act in West End and the little hand trick to keep Crowley out of trouble with the human and the demons, Crowley's threatening talk with Jim about Aziraphale, Crowley led the humans to safety through the crowd of demon and Aziraphale stood his ground to protect the the human even when that meant declaring war between Heaven and Hell. These were definitely not on their job descriptions but what they chose to do for the benefits of others.

Crowley was the one showing Aziraphale the way of selfishness and being indulged at the start. From the food, the drink, the theatre, and the earthly procession to Crowley's constant existence beside Aziraphale (rescuing me makes him rather happy). Crowley's way of selfishness always has a touch of free will (it's always there, and you can take it). In s2e6, the first time that Aziraphale made a conscious choice of being selfish, he wanted Crowley to come with him to Heaven. It was a result of manipulation from Metatron, from Heaven. It was not Aziraphale's free will. He was doing what Heaven wanted. And it angered Crowley. Which directly influenced his speech and action with Aziraphale. Instead of being open about his wants and needs with Aziraphale after the intervention with Maggie and Nina, he fell back into his way of self-preservation, and everything came out like an act of extreme selfish. The scene mirrored to their fight at the bandstand or running off together scene in s1. In each other's eyes, they were each undoing all of their growth together in the last couple of years!

Gabriel and Beelzebub chose their most selfish way out of the situation. In Crowley's view, him and Aziraphale are already out of the equation between Heaven and Hell, they should already have the authority to do whatever they want. They can go if they want to. But in Aziraphale's eye, Gabriel and Beelzebub could do it because they had the status, and if he wants something similar, he needs something similar. When him and Crowley are together, Heaven can't touch him (practically, I don't think Heaven has much interest in messing with him anymore for now) but he can't guarantee either Heaven or Hell would not go after Crowley (which partially true, Shax could just casually show up anywhere around them throughout the season). And him choosing the position in Heaven, or what he believed he chose himself, is the way he can protect Crowley, is him making his own plan for once (like what Nina told him during the fight with the demons). Him saying "I forgive you" to Crowley, not because Crowley was in need of a validation from the up, but because Aziraphale wanted to make clear of his openess to accept Crowley as he is to his side.

Aziraphale's little plan included a Crowley in it. By the time he stepped into the elevator, he didn't have a plan anymore. And as the credit rolls, the bastard of an angel smile was back on his lips and I so goddamn want to know what he came up with!!! At the same time, Crowley's intensity in his Bentley during the credit had the same energy with him driving to Tadfield in the flaming Bentley in s1 and who knows what he was up to!!!!!!

[kermitttttt]

the fact that the minisodes were much longer than in s1 (just a cold opening there) made me notice A LOT how the relationship between aziracrow evolved. Because we know they’re two dumbasses, and it took them +6000 years to understand even a little bit of what they feel for each other, but from time to time their exchanges changed a bit, slowly, but it happened. Maybe it was only my impression, but it occurred to me how their love and caring for each other grows from the beginning (and before) to the present day. Especially in the Job minisode, we see crowley being interested towards azi and his “angel being”. Of course we saw that in the garden of eden too, but here we have more time to analyse what emotions they feel in the situation: crowley’s obviously intrigued by aziraphale, but they’re not on their side yet, so we can notice how he’s not really worried about scaring aziraphale, or making him go away, even tho he opens to him quite quickly. On the other hand, we see an aziraphale that doesn’t know a thing about the human world, he’s quite, let’s say confused by it too, and he stil talks to humans with pompous words as if he’s always announcing something very important. They don’t know each other that much, yeah maybe they talked before crowley fell but now this s a completely different scenery. Just remember that, as far as we know, they only met each other twice on earth before, and this, this is the first time they make and arrangement. Not the type they make after, with the i-don’t-interfere-with-your-work-and-so-do-you-with-mine, no, they collaborate against their sides, somehow against god herself. What i want to say is that, even though we see them uncertain about each other, and definitely not confident like in the present day, they still put a big amount of trust in the other. Crowley had already done some work his way, he tells azi that when we discover the sheeps weren’t dead but just turned into birds, but he asks him to not say anything to anyone. He’s not as calm about that as some years later, and aziraphale, well that’s the first time he ever lies, so it’s clear how anxious he is. But the fact that they trusted each other so much although the fear of being caught, that makes me really think they are soulmates. They found each other working on the same task, they agreed they could do better that what they were supposed to and they did, because all the anxiety that felt aziraphale wasn’t nearly enough to make him not follow crowley instructions, and all the disillusion crowley felt wasn’t enough to make him not ask aziraphale for help. Of course aziracrow trust grown in the years, but it started a long, long time ago and it was so strong they didn’t even hesitate to give it to the other right away.

[nerd-bones]

ABSOLUTELY COMPLETELY BIG SPOILER FOR THE ENDING OF GOOD OMENS 2 BUT I HAVE SO MANY FUCKING THOUGHTS PROCEED ONLY IF YOU DARE

im just gonna completely analyze the last about twenty minutes of the episode using quotes from the show so serious spoilers////

----------------------

Crowley: "Look, I suppose, um...I've got something to say. I know we ought to be talking about...It's probably best if i start off doing all the talking, you do all the listening, 'cause if i dont start talking now, I won't ever start talking, right? Yes, so-"

Aziraphale: "What's that lovely human expression? Oh, yes! Hold that thought!"

Absolutely fucking shattering, Crowley was so visibly nervous about talking about his feelings and told him that he needs to talk to Aziraphale only to have Aziraphale completely run his speech over with a truck. You can visibly see from Crowley's face how upset that made him which just aghh hurts alot.

---

Aziraphale: "I have some incredibly good news to give you."

Crowley: "Really?"

You can just hear it in Crowleys voice he's just so done with it at the moment

---

Aziraphale: "I...um...So, um...the Metatron, you know, I don't think he's as bad a fellow-- Well, I think I might've misjudged him."

Crowleys face in this moment absolutely breaks my heart hes so pissed off. His face expression during the entire time Aziraphale talks is just incredible and portrays so many feelings of anger and hurt GOD.

---

Aziraphale: "You see, I--Well, he said, um, that Gabriel obviously hadn't worked out...[laughs] as Supreme Archangel and Commander of the Heavenly Host, and he asked who I though should take over in Heaven now that Gabriel was gone. And I said..."

*Flash to the metatron and Aziraphale talking about how aziraphale should be the new supreme archangel and how they can restore Crowley back to an angel*(dont feel like writing that out)

Crowley: "He said what?"

Aziraphale: "He said I could appoint you to be an angel. You could come back to Heaven and...and everything, like the old times. Only, even nicer."

Crowley: "Right. And you told him just where he could stick it, then?"

Aziraphale: "Not at all."

Crowley obviously hates Heaven because of the way they treat him there's no way he would ever wanna go back to them again. He has made a life for himself here with things he likes. He may be technically a demon but he's not actually evil, it's proven by the fact that he hid those goats and children from both Heaven and God instead of killing them like he was supposed to do. In Hell he would only have to be evil all the time and do bad things and in Heaven he'd just have to comply and not ask questions which just isn't like him at all. On Earth he can be just who he wants to be, do what he wants without no one telling him he can't do this or that. Aziraphale can't understand it, because he's still technically good with Heaven, he wasn't cast out and this is his opportunity to be "Good" again because he sees everything in black and white. Meanwhile Crowley is a complicated individual who sees the world in different shades of gray and realizes no one is only good or bad.

----

Aziraphale:"Not at all."

Crowley: "Oh, we're better than that, you're better than that, Angel! You don't need them. I certainly don't need them! Look, they asked me back to Hell, I said no. I'm not gonna be joining their team. Neither should you."

Aziraphale: "But...Well, obviously you said no to Hell, you're the bad guys. But...Heaven. Well, it's the side of truth, of light, of good."

Again Aziraphale only seeing Good and Evil as two opposing sides. The way that he lumps Crowley in with "the bad guys" just because he's a demon is insanely hurtful. He's known Crowley for thousands of years and he's seen him do plenty of good, yet he still sees him as Evil because he's a demon and sticking to his closeminded understanding of good and evil. (Don't get me wrong I absolutely adore Aziraphale and the way he is written this is amazing but it also just hurts my soul because I just relate to Crowley so much)

---

Crowley: "When Heaven ends life here on Earth, it'll be just as dead as if Hell ended it."

Aziraphale:[Silence]

I feel like here Aziraphale understood for a second that what Crowley was saying was true, yet he still couldn't fully grasp it because again, the way he sees Good and Evil.

---

Crowley: "Tell me you said no. Tell me you said no."

Aziraphale: "If I'm in charge...I can make a difference."

I think Aziraphale truly believes that he can make a change somehow, but i feel like it leans back into the Good and Evil thing, because when they talked about killing Job's children he was against it, because he sees death as Evil, so Heaven would possibly only do things Aziraphale deems Good and Right, which in return may bring catastrophical consequences.

---

Crowley: "Oh. Oh, God. Right, okay. Right. I didn't get a chance to say what I was going to say, I think I'd better say it now. Right, okay, yes, so... [sighs] We've known each other a long time. We've been on his planet for a long time. I mean, you and me. I could always rely on you. You could always rely on me. We're a team, a group. Group of the two of us. And we've spent out existence pretending that we aren't. I mean, the last few years, not really. And I would like to spend...[grunts] I mean, if Gabriel and Beelzebub can do it, go off together, then we can. Just the two of us. We don't need Heaven, we don't need Hell, they're toxic. We need to get away from them, just be an us. You and me, what do you say?"

Crowley's confession. Absolutely devastating. I don't even know if I can analyze this because the speech itself is self explanatory. Crowley has always felt like it's the two of them together, he sees them as just them. He's tried before to go off with Aziraphale in the first season to Alpha Centuri, but Aziraphale refused. Crowley desperately wants Aziraphale to understand that Heaven and Hell don't matter to him and that they shouldn't matter to Aziraphale either, because Aziraphale is the only thing that matters to Crowley. And Crowley desperately wants to be the only thing that matters to Aziraphale.

---

Aziraphale: "Come with me...to Heaven. I'll run it, you can be my second in command. We can make a difference."

As much as Aziraphale sees Crowley as Evil, he still wants him to be by his side and he does want to be by Crowleys side. But he also wants Crowley to become Good again, which is the conflicting factor, because Crowley is already Good, Aziraphale just doesn't see it.

---

Crowley "You can't leave this bookshop."

In a desperate attempt, Crowley does a reach and reminds Aziraphale about how much the bookshop means to him, in an attempt to change his mind about heaven.

---

Aziraphale: "Oh, Crowley. Nothing lasts forever."

Crowley:"No. No, I don't suppose it does. Good luck."

Aziraphale loves his bookshop, but Aziraphale also loves Crowley. He's willing to give it up just so he and Crowley could be in Heaven together and work together. Aziraphale saying nothing lasts forever about the bookshop makes Crowley realize that they could also not last forever this way and their "us" would've had to end sooner or later. By saying good luck, Crowley definitively denies Aziraphales offer of joining him in heaven.

---

Aziraphale: "Good luck? Crowley! Crowley, come back, to Heaven! Work with me! We can be together! Angels...doing good! I...I need you!"

Aziraphale says it himself, he wants to be together with Crowley, but for that to happen they would need to go to heaven and Crowley would have to become an angel. Aziraphale wants Crowley to change for him, to fit in this mold of Goodness and be an Angel. But that's not who Crowley is. Crowley doesn't want to change the way he is because he's happy this way.

---

Aziraphale: "I dont think you understand what I'm offering you."

Crowley: "I understand. I think I understand a whole lot better than you do."

Aziraphale doesn't really realize what he's asking Crowley to do for him. To change for him. Aziraphale sees being an angel as good thing, which Crowley doesn't agree with.

---

Aziraphale: "Well...then there's nothing more to say."

Crowley: "Listen. Do you hear that?"

Aziraphale" I don't hear anything."

Crowley: "That's the point. No nightingales."

So I know it's like a reference but does this have deeper meaning I've missed? Let me know.

---

Crowley: "You idiot. We could have been...us."

DOUBLE MEANING MOMENT obviously they could have been "us" in the sense that they're together and in love. But it could also mean that they could've stayed the same if Aziraphale had agreed with Crowley, which means Crowley wouldn't have had to turn into an angel to be together with him. This hurts man.

---

Kiss moment. I don't even have words for this. I still cannot believe this happened even. But maybe this could be counted as Crowley's final attempt in trying to change Aziraphales mind? Which sadly, didn't work.

Aziraphale: "I...I forgive you."

For a bit I couldn't understand what he meant by that, but now i believe he said so because of the fact that Crowley refused to join him in heaven and that's what Aziraphale is forgiving Crowley for. If theres any other ideas lay them on me, id be interested to hear them.

Crowley: "Don't bother."

Crowley's last words to Aziraphale. Don't bother apologizing, because I don't care to hear it. He's heartbroken, he's angry, he's upset. The person who he has been pining for 6000 years doesn't understand him at all. It's honestly so heartbreaking. AND ALSO IF THIS IS THE WAY IT ENDS IF WE DON'T GET A SEASON THREE I WILL ABSOLUTELY RIOT BECAUSE THIS IS SUCH A PAINFUL WAY TO END THEIR RELATIONSHIP I NEED TO SEE THEM MAKE AMMENDS AND BE GOOD AGAIN.

Anyway yes those are my thoughts on the ending, let me know what you guys think.

[crafty-lei]

Good Omens: on the origin of demons

Ok bare with me, it’s very late and this is only half formed thoughts, but I have THOUGHTS. Read on at your own peril and beware, here be spoilers!

Ok, premise 1: all demons are fallen Angels

Premise 2: Angels can and potentially have had their memories stripped from them

Headcanon: Demons’ memories are stripped from the when they Fall, which there are already dozens of posts about this idea that Crowley forgot everything, including meeting Furfur and Saraqael. This has a few sad implications - Crowley probably doesn’t remember that first meeting with Aziraphale, for one, he probably thinks they met in the Garden.

But my actual thoughts behind this were Gabriel and Beelzebub and I thought, what if they knew each other Before? What if, and bare with me on this, Beelzebub was once Raphael?

Raphael is missing from Heaven, we know this, and a lot of people think Crowley might have been Raphael, but I have a different theory on Crowley. But Raphael was one of the most powerful Archangel, so would make sense that after the fall they became one of the most powerful Demons. And Raphael, Gabriel and Michael in religious literature are typically depicted closely together, but Crowley was off in the Universe building nebulae. So I think that Crowley wasn’t Raphael, and thought, but hey, what if Beelzebub WAS? And they and Gabriel were so so close, then they were gone and Gabriel was in charge alone. Then armegeddon’t happened and suddenly Gabriel has Raphael back, someone who knows what it’s like, but not, because Beelzebub doesn’t remember. It makes their connection make more sense, and also makes the gift of the fly more poignant and painful - because Beelzebub knew what might happen if they were caught and wanted to protect Gabriel.

So then, who was Crowley? Well first, who is Satan? See, Satan is different than the demons, a bit like God to the Angels, up there but separate. And that made me think that maybe, Satan wasn’t a fallen Angel. The whole Lucifer fell and ruled hell thing developed a bit later in religious literature and for a lot of the Abrahamic religious texts, Satan and Lucifer are not the same. So I think that Satan is like God’s evil counterpart, which also makes sense with the Job incident - like God playing games with Her brother the devil.

At this point, I’m reminded of s BTVS fic I read many years ago, where the premise is that vampires are not actually inherently evil, but the turning ‘empties’ them of morality and conscious etc., like a newborn baby, and they have to learn it all again, except they are taught by their Sires, who were taught by their Sires etc., to be evil and kill humans. And, well, that’s a lot like what happened to the Demons - they are emptied of their memories and sent away, so then their morality is ‘filled’ by evil!God Satan, who teaches them to be evil. But they still are not inherently evil, so they can choose to be good. And Crowley does, over and over.

This leads then to the discussion that was had between Crowley and Aziraphale about the poor people, Elsbeth and Wee Morag, and the idea that it’s easier to be good when you start in good circumstances, and Aziraphale saying that there’s more opportunities to choose to be good, like that isn’t how he thinks of Crowley - choosing good even though he probably shouldn’t, and then that made me want to cry remembering the end of episode 6 and how in love and how stupid these two are.

So - who is Crowley, in that case? Crowley who temped Eve in Eden, who showed Jesus all the Kingdoms of the Earth, who created nebulas - star factories - and brought light over and over (he says ‘let there be light’ as an Angel and again to Gabriel). Who else could he be than the - also conspicuously absent - light bringer, God’s favoured son, Lucifer? Only now, he doesn’t remember any of it.

Anyway just some thoughts that wouldn’t leave me alone, here, enjoy them.

[gently-decaying-flowers]

oh my god you guys @loganmothman and i are working on a Good Omens AU and AAAAA ITS SO COOL

most of this brainrot so far is my doing, but to be fair it was his idea first (and when we get a plot going i will be writing and he will be drawing :DD right? i think so- (logan plz confirm that)

ANYWAYS! enjoy this for now! there will prolly be more info added later hehe :3

Church AU Brainrot

-Crowley- 🐍

- serpent from eden, became a priest to avoid the choice between heaven and hell

- holy water tears, leaving scars due to the half of him that is still hell incarnate

- he/him (secretly he/they)

- feels extreme guilt on behalf of both sides of him, when he does something good he betrays hell and when he does something bad he betrays heaven

- religious trauma to the MAX (if that wasn’t obvious already)

- becomes good friends with Nina and Maggie (will develop backstory for that later)

- often very quiet. he doesn’t lead any like mass, he mostly just hides in the background (to avoid being found out by the churchgoers) but he does occasionally allow people in to see him one on one (this is a very rare occurrence tho)

- remembers the angel of the east gate, and thinks about her often. he can’t really figure out why, but he often feels like she’s there with him.

- They were together (as in how they are in the show, running into each other every once in a while) until 1827 (grave robbing minisode) when Crowley decided to become a priest. He was overwhelmed with uncertainty about how good heaven actually is, but he didn’t want to stay with hell and be forced to hurt people, or let them hurt themselves.

- he often writes in a journal, sometimes seeking God’s help and sometimes seeking Satan’s. (it’s like his personality is split in half, and when he feels both he is in immense emotional distress)

- When he gets very stressed/angry his eyes turn full snake and he has to step outside of the church (consecrated ground)

- when he feels happy (rarely) or feels love (aka the presence of Azi) his eyes turn blue

How Crowley met Nina and Maggie:

There’s a small apartment right above Nina’s coffee shop, and one above Maggie’s record shop. Nina has her own apartment, so when Crowley got his Hell Appointed apartment taken from him- he didn’t know what to do. Nina noticed him living out of his Bentley and offered for him to rent out the apartment. Because he doesn’t make much money as a priest, he helps out at the shop when he can and collects tips to begin paying off his debt to Nina. (Even though Maggie has convinced her not to make him pay as much as often. We also see a little of Maggie and Nina’s relationship explored through Crowley’s interactions with them. Because of their love, he begins to find hope for himself- later finding out about the ineffable bureaucracy and having a crisis)

-Aziraphale- 🪽

- Angel of The East Gate

- uses all pronouns (i use she for her mostly tho)

- A representation of a biblically accurate angel (multiple halos, tons of glowy eyes and extreme power)

- fell in love with Crowley in the garden of eden.

- Azi did have a “human ish disguise” up until the incident in 1827, where Crowley decides to become a priest due to not wanting to get punished for saving and helping people. Azi was therefore banished to heaven for failing to “defeat evil”

- They were obviously distraught to be torn away from him, especially when he could use guidance now so she started to secretly watch over him when she could. they became a guardian angel of sorts

- behind the scenes she’s been trying to find a way to get back to earth for him

- Started her studies to become a “better servant of god” which then in turn made her a guardian Angel of sorts

- they desperately want to help Crowley choose (mostly heaven but it’s a guilty thought for them) so he isn’t stuck in this terrible limbo between

- Azi isn’t respected in heaven, but he holds out hope and never lets it get him down. they’re the good guys, so whatever they do has reason :) (oh yeah, she’s got trauma too. very very blinded. she struggles to understand why Crowley won’t pick a side, but she loves him anyway)

[stillhearyousay]

Notes about the Good Omen fic I'm clearly not writing:

- Maggie and Nina are the main POV

- Nina already believed in god tho it was casual but Maggie never has until now

- The girls want to help bring Mr Fell and Mr Crowley back together (even though they themselves are n o t dating yet, thank you very much)

- So Maggie's like how do we contact Mr Fell? And Muriel whilst eavesdropping says You're human so you can just pray to him!

- So Maggie prays to the Angel Aziraphale on Crowley's behalf while Nina flipflops between eyerolling and being absolutely confused as to how this is her life now, she just runs a coffee shop, thanks?

- Meanwhile! Crowley is doing his best to protect various humans from other demons. Keeps getting into trouble, he's not a fighter but he is very clever. A guy he rescues kisses him maybe. He gets drunk about it.

- And then Crowley starts getting into real trouble with Hell's minions BUT. Every time things get truly hairy he makes a miraculous escape. At first he thinks its luck but then he starts to realize. SOMEONE is taking care of his problems from far away.

- Aziraphale won't return his calls (or his prayers) but he is being a lil weirdo and silently watching out for him.

- It pisses Crowley off no end. And the girls catch him once or twice screaming at the sky. Old man yells at cloud

- There's eventually a confrontation somehow so that Aziraphale can make it clear that what Crowley's done (abandoned him) has hurt him deeply but he still loves him and he's not going to stop loving him from afar even tho Crowley clearly hates him. It's all very sixth-grade-girl-with-a-crush. And maybe he leaves before Crowley can get a word in edgewise.

- But then later, Crowley mumbles a little prayer while he's alone and drunk, something to the tune of 'I don't hate you'

- And then they have another confrontation where Crowley says "You made it quite clear you'd prefer me to be an angel! I'm a demon, I'm unlovable, I get it!" And Aziraphale says in a very small voice, "I don't care if you're angelic or demonic or-or-or even human. I just thought being an angel would make you happy again."

- And Crowley says, "Fuck you mean, 'again'?"

- And Aziraphale's eyes grow wide and misty. "Like before. With your nebulae, the ones that make new stars. You were so happy. I've never seen you like that, since you Fell."

- And Crowley, dumbfounded, says, "We knew each other?"

- And Aziraphale, cleary tormented by the knowledge that Crowley never remembered him, vanishes.

- And the second coming is a woman (duh) currently headcanon cast is that lovely actress with the deep voice, uhm quick google search her name is Shohreh Aghdashloo, and the main plot is something like Aziraphale and Crowley are working together Very Secretly though they still havent fully made up because if there's one thing that can bring them together it's their love for humanity and Earth - so they're like, hey Jesus 2.0, what if we show you around the place, before the Rapture? Would you like that? And she's like. Yeah that sounds nice.

- And the climax is this: Jesus 2 witnesses Crowley's love for Humanity and Earth and He-Who-Should-Be-His-Enemy Aziraphale; and she witnesses Aziraphale's love for Humanity and Earth and He-Who-Should-Be-His-Enemy Crowley. And she decides, I like where this is going. But before she tells the boys their plan worked, she needs to set them straight (hah). So she turns to Aziraphale and says, "You're an angel. You are endowed with the ability to sense love, are you not?"

- And he's all like, Yes of course?

- "And you differ from demons in this way, correct?"

- Aziraphale answers promptly, "And from humans as well, actually."

- She nods at him. Then she looks pointedly over to where Crowley is slouching, trying to look calm even tho he's frazzled with the attempt to save earth. And then she looks back to Aziraphale who has followed her gaze.

- She says, more softly and with a gentle smile and shake of her head, "He doesn't know."

- Aziraphale blinks at her.

- She tries again (infinite patience, that one). "He is a demon; he cannot just sense it. If you do not tell him, he does. Not. Know."

- Aziraphale's jaw drops. The breath leaves his lungs. He stares at Crowley for a long time trying to find the words. Finally he shrugs and walks over to him.

- He's nearly in tears.

- "I love you." He takes a deep, shuddering, wet breath. "I've been so stupid. I can't believe I didn't realize you didn't..." He sniffles, then flings his hand toward Crowley. "How could you not know!"

- Crowley is looking at Jesus 2.

- "What the hell'd you do to him," he says, a bit angry, suspecting some trick.

- She blinks at him and carefully does not laugh. "I didn't do anything to him. I reminded him about something he seemed to have forgotten, is all."

- Crowley looks back down at Aziraphale. "Don't- don't do that," he says to Aziraphale. "Don't cry. Please. I'm not..."

- He does a double-take.

- "Did you say...?"

- "Yes!" Aziraphale practically shouts, wiping at his eyes. "I love you. I love you. You idiot."

- Crowley sits on this information for multiple long moments. Then he says.

- "You don't mean it like that... because, I mean, angels've gotta love everybody, haven't they?"

- And Aziraphale has had ENOUGH.

- "YOU!" he shouts, then grabs Crowley's collar and drags him down to kiss him. It's a mean kiss, meant to make a point, and Crowley is very very still, frozen again or maybe holding himself back. It doesn't last as long as their first kiss in the bookshop - Aziraphale has to pull away to finish saying what he needs to say. "I choose to love you," he says furiously, still holding Crowley close by the front of his jacket. "It isn't passive. It feels nothing like what I feel for humans, or other angels, or..." His courage falters. "Or anything else," he finishes in a whisper, looking into Crowley's eyes.

- Crowley stares back.

- Then he leans ever so slightly forward... and kisses Aziraphale again. A quick peck, and Aziraphale returns it before Crowley pulls back.

- Crowley's mind is on autopilot at this point, so he says, "I love you too. Guess you knew that already. Hah."

- "Well done!" says Jesus 2, and they both flinch. "All right, I'm tired of being here. I'm gonna go back upstairs and relax for a bit. Let's say, see you in a hundred million years?"

[welcometohighwater]

sure it’s 2am but that only makes the brain rot worse doesn’t it so more thoughts on good omens

so the thing about aziraphale and crowley is: of course aziraphale knows he loves crowley. perhaps he doesn’t think in terms of “in love” (or, feeling romantic attraction and connection) because he’s not really wired to think he can love that way, or that it matters if he does. romantic love is probably a thing that happens to humans to him, not a thing he can/does experience/is experiencing. but loving crowley wholeheartedly was something that he could easily slip into and accept as an angel. hate the sin, love the sinner. “but i say to you, love your enemies,” etc. even though time and time again aziraphale proves himself to be a selfish bastard and not-so-angelic as he should be, he also champions his own angelic virtues, congratulating himself on them, so he’d see loving crowley as the enemy as one of his most noble and good deeds

but also maybe crowley doesn’t, actually genuinely doesn’t, realize he loves and is in love with aziraphale for the same reasons. he’s a demon. even though he’s never truly been a demon—he’s always been on his own side, and often on the side of humanity. but chiefly, his own. he fell, he became a demon simply because there was no where else for him to be, and hell was better than the alternative. (in hell he could question, in hell he could figure things out for himself and not just accept what he was told, or that’s what he was led to believe. of course that was never the case in hell either; crowley was only ever made for the freedoms of earth.) but as a demon, he wasn’t supposed to love. he was probably led to believe he no longer could love. demons don’t do love, they do temptation; they trade in lust. and sure, maybe there’s some lust he was feeling for aziraphale (i could see that being up for debate), but maybe he genuinely couldn’t place his feelings into a box called love, and especially not a box called in love, because he didn’t know he could do that. and so when nina asks him about his relationship with aziraphale (never gonna be over his reaction to her asking if aziraphale was his “bit on the side” btw), it is him realizing for the first time since he fell: oh shit. of course that’s what this is. i can love, and i do love, and i am in love with aziraphale

i don’t know man, these characters just—

also i pray to god in heaven for a season three because i’ve got to know what crowley is doing next. because he spent the first 6000 years on earth doing hell’s evil bidding (or, really, finding neat ways to get by doing the bare minimum of hell’s evil bidding, or finding fun ways to work around hell’s evil bidding). and then, the end of the world didn’t happen, and he got kicked out of hell for it, but he still had aziraphale. sure, aziraphale had the same thing happen to him with heaven, but after the world didn’t end, aziraphale had his hobby to become his job. he had his bookstore: he had books to collect and read and not sell. but crowley never has anything like that. his hobby was his plants, and that’s hardly a full-time occupation. and he had aziraphale. and i expect much of his time post-nonapocalypse was spent on aziraphale. and i think probably he likes to roam, to meet people and experience all kinds of things, but i think aziraphale kept him grounded. kept him from floating away or sinking too deep. so now that aziraphale left him, has gone back to heaven: what could possibly be next for crowley?

[mobydyke]

Can we hear the opinions about the Crowley line 👀

YES here's the line for reference before I talk about it

[ID: an image of page 304 from Good Omens by Neil Gaiman & Terry Pratchett. the selected text reads:

6. All was black, gloomy and awful. There was no light at the end of the tunnel—or if there was, it was an oncoming train.

7. He might just as well find a nice little restaurant and get completely and utterly pissed out of his mind while he waited for the world to end.

8. And yet...

And that was where it all fell apart.

Because, underneath it all, Crowley was an optimist. If there was one rock-hard certainty that had sustained him through the bad times-he thought briefly of the fourteenth century then it was utter surety that he would come out on top; that the universe would look after him.

Okay, so Hell was down on him. So the world was ending. So the Cold War was over and the Great War was starting for real. So the odds against him were higher than a vanload of hippies on a blotterful of Owlsley's Old Original. There was still a chance.]

SO good omens is a story about the nature of humanity right? and yeah it's about these two idiots who after a single event 11 years ago do absolutely nothing to help further or resolve the plot (god bless them). but it's about them being a part of humanity! about them admiring humans and finding kinship and solidarity with all those good and terrible things that make us people! at its core, it's a hopeful story. and this scene defines that.

when I was 16 years old and I read this book for the first time, the scene made me feel the way that watching the good place makes me feel. It made me feel this great all-encompassing love for people as a whole and our stubbornness and our determination and our seemingly never-ending optimism. because, at our core, we want to help other people. we want to treat the people around us with love and respect, and we want to be loved and respected (I feel like I just stole that from the good place but idk and idc).

so not only is this scene important, for the me that loves to project onto crowley and who latched onto this character when I was 16 and suffering from everything that comes w/ being 16, and who desperately needed to learn that it was okay to be an optimist and to try again every single day despite the seeming darkness at the end of the tunnel. BUT it's important for crowley too. because even though they've spent all this time on earth, he and aziraphale still know they're outsiders. but this? this is the most human thing he could possibly do. to say "and yet" and decide that even though the entire world is against him, he will stand up again. crowley looks within and comes to that decision himself. and it's terrifying. it's difficult. it's one of the hardest things that we can do, and also one of the most important. and he does it!

and that's why I (quietly and not usually on main bc I'm not an asshole) rail against ngai.man and the omens show bc well. they don't understand their own damn source material

[idanit]

possibly underappreciated Good Omens fics I enjoyed once upon a time

Indirectly inspired by a video series about fanfiction I watched, I decided to pull together a list of Good Omens fics I have bookmarked as stories I enjoyed, but which have less than 250-300 kudos at the time I’m writing this. No particular order. They’re accompanied by short excerpts from my private fic reading notes (not originally intended to be read by anyone but me, mind), sometimes slightly edited for clarity—and, sometimes, the comments I left on the fics.

This list sat in my drafts for a long time and the recent S2 announcement reminded me of it. I’d love it if it inspired you to do something similar! Spread the love.

And mind the tags, please.

△ = general and teen ▲ = mature and explicit 

thermodynamic equilibrium ▲ 7K the author has such an ear for dialogue and is unapologetic about what they want to write the characters like. They think of the characters as a mix of TV and book canon, but they feel like a homemade blend to me. (...) It’s very funny.

such dear follies ▲ 6K I can really picture this Aziraphale—Crowley as well, but her especially. She’s rather distinct. (...) Nice writing.

The Words Were With - △ 1.2K post-Blitz vignette, Aziraphale realizes what he feels and wonders if they're human enough for this. I liked it, and I liked the tag "transhumanism, but in reverse?", too—what an interesting idea. I'd say it's a vignette in a dire need of a follow-up, but, well, there's the show. The show is the follow-up. It fits very nicely within the canon and I totally believe it could have happened, like a deleted scene.

Gossip and Good Counsel △ 19K/? I love their companionship and how they're set up to be opposites by the management even though they get on pretty well. It feels very in keeping with the canon, but I feel like the fact that it's an F/F set in this particular time period adds a meaningful layer to the situation. It's women supporting each other in the world of men, working with the personas that are created for them, but, privately, being normal, well-rounded people. (...) and of course your writing is always a pleasure to read. (...) SDHDGDHDHDG Maisie is truly an Aziraphale.

Crowley Went Down to Georgia (he was looking for a soul to steal) △ 6K This was nice. Based on a song I didn’t know. Crowley goes to a funeral in the USA, one of a fiddler he knew and lost a bet to once. (...) The fic has not one but two songs composed for it and embedded inside it and that makes it even better. I really enjoyed the experience.

The Thing With Feathers △ 18K WARLOCK you'rE HORRIBLE AND I LOVE IT I would read an entire novel-length fic just of Crowley fighting his battles with Warlock. Written like this? It would be a blast. (...) The OCs are believably characterized and well-loved by the story. (...) Everyone seems to need a friend in this house. (...) This was so fun, and at the same time, their mission has weight here (...) We wonder about what the future holds even though we know it.

Here Quiet Find △ 11K This fic aimed for my head and the aim was sure precise. It was a story of Crowley sensing Aziraphale's distress and finding him in a self-quarantined English village in the seventeenth century, tired and anxious. It's hurt/comfort, so there was washing and bedsharing and I had to love it, so I did.

outside of time △ 2K Post-Almostgeddon, (...) nicely-written, short, but strung with a soft kind of tension and unspoken words. There's no drama, just "can we really", and "do you really" of sudden freedom. They fall into being inseparable. Book canon, which I like for this story (sitting on a tarmac). I liked the footnotes. There's a mention of Eliot. All in all, very much yes.

She'asani Yisrael △ 2K It’s Crowley going through a two-hour service and drinking blessed wine. He also keeps an eye on a boy he was asked to. It’s 1946. It was pretty good, so far the best Jewish GO fic, I think, from the ones I’ve read.

To Guard The Eastern Gate △ 11K  I loved it. You really made Sodom feel lived-in; the description of Keret, Hurriya and Yassib's house and relationship were great. I got attached to both them and the city (...) Aziraphale and Crawley’s interactions were generally very entertaining. I laughed (...) Your rendering of their voices just lands so well (...) But then oh, the entire ending (...) hurt, hurt a lot, and your descriptions are so vivid.

If you’ve been waiting (for falling in love) △ 14K AAAAA a good ending line. The whole paragraph, in fact. I love a good smattering of philosophy in my fics, and this was really nice. I can get behind Thomas Aequinus's and Crowley's view on eternity. It's (...) a pretty simple fic (...) - the courage to express yourself and take a risk is awarded with winning what was at stake by the virtue of reciprocity - but the way it was intertwined with a study of how they would experience a forever was done well. 

Holy unnecessary ▲ 2.2K It's well-written. (...) this is my type of sexual humour if I have any. So subtle. Blink and you'll miss it. Lovely.

The Parting Glass △ 17K Through the ages, they're dancing around their relationship until after the Armageddoff. (...) Wow, this was really, really nice. Very simple in its concept and nothing I haven't read before, but very well-executed. (...) AAAAH I LOVED the first chapter. I always like abbeys as settings, that's a given, but the banter, the good writing, the moral ambiguity!

Name The Sky △ 33K This Crowley is different, but very intriguing. Without his sarcastic talk, and much more animalistic. (...) I love how expressive Crowley is. (...) This fic has a very nice balance of drama and levity. I don't love Crowley-before-the-Fall stories very much, but with this execution I can read about it. (...) Okay I've read Crowley offering fruits, and even Aziraphale biting fruits, but the two of them sharing the apple? Outstanding. Ingenious. What a take.

A Flame in Your Heart △ 5K post-Blitz (why are so many dance fics post-Blitz?), they go to the bookshop and have an actually believable conversation. Then they dance the gavotte. It was really nice! Believable writing, emotions, the dancing! (...) Of course it's too early for them, (...) but the author's note? yeah.

Put down the apple, Adam, and come away with me ▲ 32K At this point it's just reading original stories with characters with names and some personality traits that I recognize. (...) I really enjoy this, the careful dance, the opposition between their views. (...) This is well-written, wow. (...) it's not an easy read (...) this story feels very believably 50s, but also reaches out to the present time. 

Liebestraum ▲ 10K/? It really is like music. I'm enjoying the writing a lot. (...) oh my actual god. This, this? Wow, uh. This came for my throat. (...) THE MUSICAL COMPOSITION, THE MOTIF RETURNING, THE AUTHOR KNOWS WHERE IT'S AT (...) Excellent. This hits the right beats so precisely, (...) and with feeling, too.

Down Comforter △ 2.4K and they lay down in angeldown, a soft rug ‘neath their heads– alright. Well, Crowley lies under Aziraphale's wing on a Persian rug after the Apocalypse, and they talk (...). It was sweet.

The Corsair of Carcosa △ 5K Crowley wakes up from a nap, visits Aziraphale for some drinking, and they read The King in Yellow that he happens to own. Good writing, so I'm bought. Aziraphale mentions Beardsley, so I'm bought twice over. My god, a discussion of etheral/occult madness? Caused by some wrong/true reading? Yes.

Very Good, Omens! △ 6K It's rather well-written, well-pastiched. People don't do that too often, nowadays - try to write in the style of a particular writer. (...) I love wordplay like this.

Reviving Robin Hood: The Complicated Process of Crème Brûlée △ 30K it's well-written (...), has a rhythm to it, and quiet humour. (...) Finally some nice, good, light writing. The attention to detail! (...) I'm still reading most of it aloud, the rhythm of it compels me to. (...) okay this does sound like Pratchett&Gaiman, the Good Omens itself (...) The fic is meandering, hilarious, sensitive in all the right places, and overall lovely.

my dear acquaintance △ 1K Oh. Oh. Yes, yes! Aziraphale in Russia, Russia I've never been in, but I can feel the snow and the evening of. Very real, and the bar, too. Attention to detail - vodka flavoured with dill, what on earth? Yes. He would totally have a distinct taste in operas and he would totally complain about a subpar one. I'm glad Tchaikovsky's there.

there is a crack in everything △ 1.8K This was good! Ah. Inspired by a comment (...), I went looking for Mr. Harrison and Mr. Cortese fics—really, what a big brain moment someone had and why have I never thought to look for them? This is Crowley getting suddenly anxious and Aziraphale going out of his way, through all his layers of not-thinking and denial, to console him. I also really liked how the Arrangement is a carefully unacknowledged partnership-marriage.

Scales And Gold And Wings And Scars △ 6K  No conflict, no plot, one tiny arc like a ripple on the surface of water on a calm sunny day - of Aziraphale discovering Crowley’s scars. It's the South Downs and it's early summer. They bask and swim in a spring. Non-sexual nudity, love in the air like a scent. Nice.

Nineteen Footnotes In Search Of A Story △ 0.4K This is a Good Omens story told only through footnotes. Your mind can fill in the gaps. Fascinating (...). Also, it’s an experiment so apt for this particular fandom.

Hell on Earth △ 6.5K Oh, I loved it! How could I not love it: it's Beelzebub-centric, it's historical, it has classical painting, and even a hilarious scene with a cuneiform phrase, as if I didn't enjoy this story enough already. There are so few Beelzebub fics out there and I find searching for them very difficult (I accept recs if anyone has any), and it's such a shame, so this was really like a gift to the fandom. I absolutely adore the way you portrayed them, small, frightening, powerful, and confident. Also, it was super fun to see how different Crowley seems when we're not in his POV or in a story about him and Aziraphale. (...)

Go Up to Ramoth-Gilead and Triumph △ 24K Daegaer is... pure class. (...) hdhdhdh what pfttt why you so funny (...) I love this Crowley. (...) This got unexpectedly intense. (...) I love the little nods to the fact that Israelites, especially the poorer ones, still believe in other gods. I also really like that they sleep on roofs. It's just the kind of detail that grounds the story and shows that the author is, in fact, a historian. 

[anthonycrowleymoved]

I know this is old discourse but in light of destiel becoming canon, what are your thoughts on neil gaiman not allowing Crowley and Aziraphale to be gay lovers? He said that they're angels, not men, so is that supposed to imply that they're not gay simply cuz they're non-binary (so they're asexual)? I just wanna know if they'e in love or not lol. I ship them so much.

yeah okay this is gonna have to be tagged neil discourse because thinking about this over a year later i’m still mad huh

so like. i know very well what he said at the time. he was basically like, and i’m paraphrasing but that’s because i simply do not care enough to give a direct quote but on twitter he was like ‘oh well angels don’t UNDERSTAND human concepts like GENDER and SEXUAL ATTRACTION so NO they’re NOT GAY’ and then someone was like ‘but they’re in love right?’ and he was like ‘of course.’ right? everyone agrees that’s what happened right after the show aired? and like, okay, i’m not going to begrudge people seeing this as representative of themselves if they’re nb and/or ace, that’s cool and fine, and you do you. i find it interesting that i saw a ton more criticism about it on here than on twitter, but that’s probably just more indicative of who i’m following and how much i’m on here than anything else. anyway.

let’s break this bullshit down and explain piece by piece why i think neil’s quote unquote representation in gomens is a hot garbage fire and why it kind of rubbed me the wrong way from the moment i saw it.

1. he posted it on twitter. he wrote the script and could have like, you know, put it into the show, if them being In Love was like, actually part of the story. he had the ability to do that. gomens was already going to piss off right wing groups because of how it treats religion, this wasn’t something i legitimately think amazon/the beeb would have just said ‘no’ to if neil was serious about it. mean, maybe that’s a bit far into conspiracy territory, but i truly believe if they really wanted to make azcrow canon the one person who could have managed getting a scene would have been the author/showrunner. and because he didn’t if you’re a casual viewer who’s not fucking following his goddamned twitter seeing gay representation is now a rorschach test

‘they don’t adhere to human ways of thinking about gender and sexuality’ MANY THOUGHTS HERE but let’s start with

2. i think hallie originally said this and neil i know you wrote the book but like. did you read the book neil. because i thought one of the main points of it was that aziraphale and crowley had effectively ‘gone native’ and saw themselves more like humans than like celestial beings. and they’d been on earth for all of human history. it’s a bad take i’m sorry i know he literally wrote it but like really. really.

3. look i’m nb and i’d love some nb rep. but that was not nb rep. those were two cis male actors playing (largely) male presenting characters with absolutely no in-text indications that they aren’t cis. there’s one (a few? god it’s been a minute since i watched the show) character referred to by singular ‘they’ and it’s not aziraphale or crowley. and like, look, i get that in real life there’s nb people who don’t go by gender neutral pronouns and that’s cool and fine because that’s what those people feel inside. but, like, this isn’t real life, it’s a tv show, and referring to male presenting characters as he/him and then occasionally putting them in feminine clothing isn’t representation because people who aren’t looking for that kind of representation aren’t going to see it, they’re going to see a joke about a man in a dress

4. and i’m not ace so i can’t speak on that, but i do remember at the time ace people being like ‘that....was not ace rep’ so like, make of that what you will. again, i’m not going to tell you you can’t see them as nb and/or ace, but like, i’m just asking you, was that really representation? like, was it? in your heart like, would you have been happy with that representation if neil didn’t tell you it was representation? because if you’re just starved for content, that’s FINE, you’re ALLOWED, all i’m asking you is to not praise the creator for doing fuck all.

5. ‘of course [they’re in love]’ again where??? where??? where is it neil. where is it in the actual text of the show. like there’s in text evidence that they love each other platonically and there’s lots of jokes made by other characters but like. i hate to say that but that’s it. i don’t know why this off the cusp response still makes my blood boil but boy does it

6. i don’t want to go looking for it because i’ve done that like six times but there’s a post on neil’s tumblr from before the show dropped about how there would be moments that people who ship it would be happy with but it wouldn’t become canon. you can look it up i swear he said that in like....december of 2018ish? something like that. which, again, is fine on its own, but combined with the fact that after he was like ‘lmao that’s what i was going for’......not my favorite look

what i’m saying is like, if he wanted to create an actual queer narrative he could have but he just like, chose not to and then when he realized he could have people watching his show just because they’re thirsty for representation that isn’t there i think he went ‘oh i’ll jk rowling this’ i don’t KNOW that that’s what happened but, like, that’s what it looks like to me.

i used to regularly refer to the “representation” in gomens as nu-queerbaiting, which i still like as a term, because to me it’s the person in charge (not the actors, usually, unless they have some say in the writing process) going, oh no they’re totally in love with each other totally trust me :) and then like, they’re not, not really, not to the people who like, watch the show but don’t fucking follow the author on twitter. and that’s. i’m sorry, that’s not canon to me.

and, to be honest, how this is presented honestly makes me more angry than if it was just maybe in-universe wink wink nudge nudge, because i’m USED to queerbaiting and i know that like, almost nothing ever ever ever comes of it and i get it and i like having fun anyways, so i deal. and like, i was a book fan before the show came out. the book was written in the late 80s, and i knew that it wasn’t going to be anywhere near as gay as the fandom has made that work for thirty goddamned years, and i was fine with that. like, going into it, i joked, but it was fine because it was a relatively faithful adaption of a book i like. i wasn’t looking for gay representation, even though i ship aziraphale and crowley.

but like, there was this wave of people who came looking for representation, and the show is so vague on that concept that they saw it, but it’s like. it’s not actually really there. there’s no one saying ‘yes they’re really irl in love.’ there’s two male-presenting characters who COULD be in love, if you choose to view it like that, but maybe aren’t. and like, that’s FINE, on it’s own, but i hate that someone in a position of power said ‘no you’re right lmao’ even though he didn’t do shit. it was made in 2019. queer representation should be better than that. i’m not patting neil on the back for doing literally nothing.

so like, tldr: yeah the rep is bad in my opinion!!! it’s not good!!!! i don’t like how neil handled it and it’s gross!!!! i hope this answers your question!!!!

anyway that being said azcrow is such a good ship anyway, so like, why does it matter if they’re canon? ship em anyways no one can stop me from doing it even though how it was handled by the actual creator is a garbage fire when you look at it for more than like, thirty seconds. like......why must a ship be ‘canon’? is it not enough to read a book and see two celestial beings, in love with humanity?

[according-to-the-laura]

StackedNatural Day 138: 8x17

StackedNatural Masterpost: [x]

March 20, 2022

8x17: Goodbye Stranger

Written by: Robbie Thompson

Directed by: Thomas J. Wright

Original air date: March 20, 2013

Plot Synopsis:

Sam and Dean hunt down the angel tablet with assistance from Castiel and Meg.

Features:

The cold open of all cold opens, Cas going to conversion therapy, Beautiful Mind demons, a missing orchard, the Angel Tablet, Megstiel, Sam’s subatomic damage, the bisexual flag in Heaven, the Destiel scene to end all Destiel scenes, Meg’s death.

My Thoughts:

They were absolutely fucking insane for sending Cas to conversion therapy. And then they didn’t confirm any queerness for 7 more years! This episode was supposed to have an “I love you” from Dean instead of an “I need you”! Robbie Thompson does it again.

I absolutely love Meg as a character. I like how long she’s been around flickering in and out of their lives since 1x11 Scarecrow (although we never did learn her true name, since Meg Masters was actually the name of her first human host). I know that Rachel Miner asked to be written off because of her declining health, but I can’t help but imagine a world where she joined Team Free Will. I think the dynamic of later seasons would be shaken up in a really interesting way if there was someone whose first priority was Cas rather than Sam or Dean. I think she would have stood up for him a lot, and that in turn would have forced Dean to be more honest and kinder to him or risk losing him to someone he would inevitably see as competition for Cas’ affections, though I doubt he would be able to admit that to himself. I love how honestly they care about each other, whether it would have ended up being romantic or platonic or what. @meg3point0 also brought up that having Meg spend more time with them and proving that demons can feel love would have stirred up a lot of memories of Ruby for Sam, and that would have been really delicious as well.

Naomi as a villain is really effective at this point because we’ve seen her pretty rarely - when Cas first comes back form Purgatory, and when we see the first lobotomy, and then this episode - but she’s shown to have controlled so much of what’s happened in season 8. She has control of the narrative while remaining relatively hidden. The flipping back and forth between Earth and Heaven was a genius way to show what’s happening in Cas’ head, giving us way more information than the brothers, and really well directed so it’s never confusing. A great Stack moment came from this, with Cas asking Naomi for orders reminding me of him asking Anna to tell him what to do in yesterday’s episode. It’s also so delicious that yesterday we saw his first flirtation with the idea of rebelling, and today we see him defy Heaven entirely, and both of these were out of love for Dean Winchester.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think we ever find out what the history between Crowley and Naomi is. I feel like somewhere along the showrunner’s switching off, something they were setting up got forgotten. Referring to Mesopotamia implies that he’s much older than 1661, which is when Fergus MacLeod was supposedly born. I remember when this episode first aired, there was a lot of speculation in my corner of the internet that he was actually an old god, or maybe even the snake from the Garden of Eden. I wish they had made something of that - he got so pathetic in later seasons that it’s easy to forget what a powerful antagonist he was earlier on.

Notable Lines:

“No hesitation. Quick. Brutal. Everything's back in order.”

“I don't know, Dean. If he's so sketchy, then why were you praying to him?”

“Why are you so sweet on me, Clarence?” “I don't know. And I still don't know who Clarence is.”

“I'm kind of good, which sucks. And you're kind of bad -- which is actually all manner of hot.”

“There's blood everywhere, and it's on your hands. After everything you did -- to us, to heaven. I fixed you, Castiel.”

“I know you can hear me. Cas… It's me. We're family. We need you. I need you.”

“What broke the connection?” “I don’t know.”

Laura’s (completely subjective) Episode Rating: 9.8

IMdB Rating: 8.6

In Conclusion: We’re getting to the point in Stacked where everything is building to finales, so hopefully we get more bangers to come!

<< Previous Day  |  Next Day >>

[holycatsandrabbits]

Love's Endless Light

A Good Omens serial romance

READ FROM THE BEGINNING: You are here! NEXT

Chapter 1: Calm Every Fear

2007 BC, Crete

The first time a human tried to warn Aziraphale about Crawly, Aziraphale wasn’t quite sure how to respond. Aziraphale’s favorite perk about being stationed on Earth was that he got to meet so many humans. Aziraphale made friends easily, perhaps because humans were drawn to the angelic aura he gave off. That might explain why humans sometimes didn’t care for Crawly— or maybe, Aziraphale mused, watching Crawly’s human legs morph into a six-foot-long snake tail on the beach in broad daylight, it was because he tended to do that.

One of Aziraphale’s human friends grasped his arm and started tugging him away. “It’s a monster!” he cried. “Run!”

“Yes, you should run,” Aziraphale advised him. “I’m going to— to check the beach for anyone else.”

The man looked at him with fear in his eyes. “No, come with us! It’s too dangerous!”

Aziraphale wasn’t quite sure how to explain to a human that a Naga demon was still just a demon, and therefore quite inferior to an angel of the Lord. “I’ll be right behind you,” he promised, and when Crawly made a loud snarling noise, the human dropped Aziraphale’s arm and fled.

There was a splashing sound, and Aziraphale turned to find Crawly amid the breakers, salt water waves crashing over his hips and tail, turning the ends of his long scarlet hair dark against his pale skin. Crawly was— Aziraphale could never deny this— quite surprisingly attractive for a demon, with a lithe form that moved in a fascinating serpentine manner whether he wore legs or not.

Well, usually. Right now Crawly was romping about wildly in the waves with a silly grin on his face. It faded the instant he noticed Aziraphale standing on the beach. “Oh,” he said, with a tremor of anxiety in his voice. “It’s you.”

“It is,” Aziraphale confirmed. “So if you were planning to eat any humans, I’m afraid—”

Crawly made a shocked noise. “Eat— are you serious? When’s the last time I ate a human?”

“Well, I’m sure I don’t know.”

“Never!”

“Then what are you doing? Why have you—” Aziraphale waved a hand in Crawly’s general direction.

Crawly looked down at himself, as if he had forgotten that at the moment he was a very large monster. “Wanted to go for a swim,” he said. “Didn’t feel like sharing the beach.”

“You terrorized a hundred humans just so that you could swim.”

“Wasn’t a hundred,” Crawly said. His eyes kept darting from Aziraphale’s face to his hands, and Aziraphale realized that Crawly was expecting Aziraphale to be holding something— a flaming sword, most likely. “I’ll go,” Crawly said, starting to leave the water.

Aziraphale looked down at his hands, and then slowly folded them together, lacing finger against finger, leaving no room for a weapon.

Crawly watched this with a sort of hopeful bewilderment. He rested half in and half out of the waves now, against both the cold of the ocean and the heat of the sand. It was nearly noon. The sun was high, set where God Herself had placed it, and it shouldn't have been the case, Aziraphale thought, that it could shine so flatteringly on a demon, making his skin and scales glow. Just as there was no way that Crawly’s golden eyes should have always reminded Aziraphale more of that loving sun than the punishing fires of Hell.

Aziraphale approached Crawly cautiously, letting his sandals start to make tracks in the wetter sand. “Have you— how have you been? You know, I don’t think I’ve seen you for—”

“Thirty-two years,” Crawly said, and then he looked away, as if he were ashamed to know the exact number.

Aziraphale knew the number, too. As much as he adored his human friends, there was something rather comforting about being able to speak with someone who’d known you far, far longer than any human ever could.

“Been good,” Crawly said. “Well— been bad, I guess. Doing evil deeds, you know.”

“I’m sure,” Aziraphale said.

“Not eating people, though.”

“Yes. I’m sor—” Aziraphale cut himself off sharply, shocked at himself for attempting to apologize to a demon.

Crawly was staring at him, looking half-surprised and half insulted. “I’ve terrorized plenty of people,” he said.

“Of course.”

Crawly waved his hand at Aziraphale. “Suppose you’ve been doing the opposite, whatever that is. Comforting?”

“Um— yes, comforting.” Aziraphale watched as the edge of a wave reached the toe of his sandal, splashing drops of cold water onto his heated skin.

“Come for a swim,” Crawly said.

Aziraphale looked at him in shock. “What? No.”

“Why not?”

“Because I am not taking a swim with a demon.”

Crawly was grinning again, and it always made Aziraphale a little unsettled to see him do that, to see him look happy. Demons shouldn’t be happy, they should always be miserable. And yet sometimes it seemed like Crawly could forget all of that, forget that his soul was damned, that there was an empty cavern in his chest where God’s love should be. Crawly could somehow focus on the moment, taking pleasure in earthly things.

Crawly’s voice fell low and mesmerizing. “It’s fun,” he said. “Innocent fun, swimming in the ocean. You’ll enjoy it.”

Aziraphale sighed. “I can tell when you’re trying to tempt me, you know. And I have told you that it doesn’t work on angels.”

Crawly looked unexpectedly delighted. “You can’t swim,” he accused. “Never learned?”

“I float,” Aziraphale said, disappointed that he sounded rather morose. “Angels, you know— we can walk on water. We— we have to walk on water. Can’t sink even if we want to.”

Crawly burst into laughter and collapsed back into the ocean, letting the waves rush around him. He put up a clawed hand to slick his hair back out of his face, and Aziraphale could not look away from him. “Angels being denied one of life’s greatest pleasures,” he exclaimed. “How poetic.”

“The light of Grace,” Aziraphale informed him, “far outweighs a dip in the sea.”

“Take your word for it,” Crawly said. “I was never much for that.”

“You—” Aziraphale felt cold inside. “You don’t miss God’s love?”

Crawly shrugged, looking away. “What would a demon want with love?”

“But it— it’s your punishment, to want what you can’t have—”

“Seems to me you’re the one who wants what he can’t have,” Crawly countered. “Can’t even go for a swim.”

Aziraphale gave him an exasperated look. “Crawly, honestly. Look, I should get back to the city. Comfort the people you frightened.” If Aziraphale expected Crawly to look remorseful for having emptied the beach, he was disappointed. Crawly looked at peace with his serpentine tail floating in the waves. “I want you gone by nightfall,” Aziraphale warned him.

“Yeah, yeah.” Crawly gave him a smile that was part sadness, almost as if he was going to miss Aziraphale, when he didn’t even miss God.

********

READ FROM THE BEGINNING: You are here!

NEXT

Why a serial fic? Because I wanted to make a Tumblr comic like all the cool kids do, but I can't draw, so here it is in prose. Updates Fridays on Ao3 and Tumblr.

Want to create fic, art, or other works based on this series? Please do! Just dm or tag me.

My previous Good Omens serial: Mr. Fell’s Bookshop

*********

Image text: Love’s Endless Light by Dannye Chase (HolyCatsAndRabbits) Chapter 1

As Aziraphale and Crowley slowly fall in love over the millennia, Crowley discovers that Aziraphale is keeping a very dangerous secret.

My Carrd

[finaledenialist]

so in one of your asks you said you dont think cas was in love with dean since the beginning and idk its interesting to me because everyone seem to think he was from the start so what is your take on that? idk im just curious haha

ohhh I wanted to make a post about this so thanks for asking!

disclaimer: I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade I just have a different take on this whole thing!!! 

So. I see people are like: OMG he was in love ALL THIS TIME SINCE 4x01 and I am like: no. 

Was he lost since he laid his hand on Dean in hell? Yes. Was he instantly in love? Nah.

See, Cas in season 4 and 5 is starting to feel. He is conflicted, he is questioning, he doesn’t have ‘people skills’, he is confused by what he feels, he knows there is a ‘profound bond’ between him and Dean and he is rebelling for Dean, because Dean has a point and Cas feels Dean is right and apocalypse and destruction are wrong, and this human is so human and he never had that connection before. Add the sexual innuendos, the eye fucking and the tension between those two and this is what i call ‘classic destiel’. I do have a strong feeling this is partly Jensen’s and Misha’s fault though haha but I am also convinced that the jokes like ‘Cas, get out of my ass!’/’Blow me Cas’ are purely for ‘comedic purposes’ because haha gay so funny (keep in mind it’s still 2008/2009 and things were so different then BUT we still got Endverse which had not only sexual stuff implied but romantic as well - ‘all we have left, Dean and I, is each other, if Dean says it’s time to go in a blaze of glory, so be it’ (I am writing this from memory so these might not have been exact lines but you know what I am talking about).

And then in season 6 and 7 is where things start to get romantic. ‘I watched you rake leaves’, Dean’s blind faith that no, Cas can’t be working with Crowley behind their backs because come on it’s Cas and the whole 6x20 episode is *chief’s kiss* and then season 7 and Cas dies to make things right and Dean keeps his trenchcoat and moves it from every car they have been using that season to always have it with him because part of me always believed you’d come back. OK, but I was meant to be talking mostly about Cas’ point of view. Which takes me back to 7x23 and I’d rather have you, cursed or not. I think these words had a major impact on Cas. Something just clicked. Because he realized that he could say these exact same words to Dean and they still would be true. 

And then we got season 8 which was a major shift and it really moved stuff from ‘sexual tension’ to ‘romantic tension’ and it’s still called ‘season fanfiction’ because I wanted to keep them away from you in purgatory and Cas generally not feeling worthy of anything but I think this is when he started to realize that what he feels is not like ‘brotherly friendship’ but something much deeper but he had his issues (I don’t deserve to be saved from purgatory thing) so he kind of kept it buried. But this was when the Real Love really started. But did he admit it to himself? Well I am not in Cas’ head but something must have been on his mind - Naomi had access too his mind and she immediately recognized that there is a certain Feeling that is dangerous and Cas needs to be fucking lobotomized (I still have shivers thinking about it). Did Naomi knew it was love? Idk, but she felt something was going on - that is why she tried to mess things up between Dean and Cas (I only wish he felt the same way ouch my heart....) and Metatron also recognized it, quicker and better (maybe because he spent much more time on earth and was generally a little more powerful and knowing as the scribe of God) and he immediately used Cas’ grace to banish angels from heaven because Cas was feeling love for a human. But did he, himself recognized it as love? Did he admit it to himself? I still have a feeling that no. I still think that his ‘I don’t know’ after Dean’s ‘What broke the connection?’ was honest.

Now let me fast forward to season 12, because this post is getting too long already and while seasons 9-11 had some good episodes and even good destiel scenes I feel this was the time many people - rightly so - were starting to lose faith in canon destiel, starting with Dean not letting Cas stay in the bunker in season 9 and bros acting like they only call Cas when they need him. I repeat - there were still some good episodes, even great ones. And we were shown Cas worried about Dean and being there for him anytime Dean called, there was so much pining but once again let me raise The Question: did Cas know what he was feeling was love? Or was he still confused, not letting himself believe, not being able to name his own feelings and emotions? And this is merely my opinion but this is also time where many people started to be bitter and negative by how writers treated Cas (and other characters in general but I am not gonna dive into that dumpster now, especially the Cas-having-sex-with-a-reaper thing which was awful, but in retrospect is even more awful because if it was Chuck’s writing this seems like some kind of sick attempt to do a conversion therapy and I want to throw up; plus he thought? he was into his boss at gas’n’sip and he thought she was into him and what even was it if not a. bad writing; b. Cas being confused; c. Cas being confused about this bad writing).

So season 12. First of all 12x12, when Cas thought he is gonna die and the infamous line ‘I love you. I love all of you’ happened. I  am 100% sure this is when Cas realized. This must have prompted questions for him. Why did I say what I said? He blurted those words out but why like that? Aaaand after some thinking I think he realized why. He must’ve been like ‘oooops’. But then Jack was about to be born and he had to protect Kelly and then he died.

And then he is in the Empty who says - I know who you love, I know what you fear, there is nothing for you out there. She doesn’t know shit, she just has access to Cas’ mind and apparently those were his thoughts, already at that time, he thought there was nothing for him out there (again, his depression issues) BUT THEN CAS, MY SWEET CAS, THIS BAD ASS MOTHERFUCKER says fuck you Empty in one of his best monologues (before 15x18 I’d say it was his best but here we are) and she yeets him out, because HE decided HE is already saved and he doesn’t need a permission and you can preen and you can scream and yell and remind me of my failings but somehow, I'm awake. And I will stay awake and I will keep you awake until we both go insane. I will fight you. Fight you and fight you for... ever. For eternity. 

And then Jack dies and he takes the humiliating deal.  And now we’re at 15x18 and he says: ‘I have always wondered.... ever since I took that burden.... What my true happiness can even look like... Because the one thing I want is the one thing I can’t have’. SEE THESE WORDS HERE ARE WHY I CAN’T SLEEP AT NIGHT. BECAUSE THEY IMPLY at least to me THAT:

1. He was aware of his feelings, he knew what he felt was love at the time he took the deal. and after that he was like ‘I guess I am immortal now’ because the one thing I want is the one thing I can’t have so nothing else is going to make him truly happy; this also implies that there is only one thing he truly wants and the rest is just not that important, whatever else happens won’t make him happy which is heartbreaking;

2. He knew what he wanted, so this means that at some point he wondered, he imagined, he took his time to picture the ‘thing’ he wanted. Which is life with Dean. Because he is in love. LIKE HE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS, HE REALLY DID AND HE CONCLUDED THAT THIS IS OUT OF HIS REACH (now people argue if that is because he thinks it’s unrequited or because he thinks that something something hunter life-fighting all the time-no attachments lifestyle won’t allow them to have this sort of life - and frankly, knowing that he learned everything, or almost everything about emotions from Dean, who isn’t really good at them, I am not surprised if he is sure that this feeling is one-sided, because maybe he conquered his fears in the Empty the first time around but taking the deal must have made him anxious and Chuck still calls him self-hating so he probably thinks this is one-sided and he is unworthy of love anyway);

3. He tried to imagine different scenarios that would make him happy but eventually it all came down to That One True Scenario, out of his reach, that couldn’t compare with anything else, and he tells Jack - you know about that deal, it’s ok, I don’t see myself becoming happy anytime soon AND IT HURTSSS

so to conclude and tl;dr - I think Cas realized that what he was feeling was love after 12x12 although he felt it before but might have been confused by it. I do not think he was ~in love~ since 4x01. There was tension and there was pining but no. This feeling evolved, it didn’t *just* happen in the barn. 

also i am so sorry this took so long but i have thoughts and feelings and can’t form a coherent sentence since november 5th anyway thanks for asking nonny, ily!!!!