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adelrambles · 2 years ago

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Ohhh I would love to see IDW Bishop interact with the others.

Like, 2003 Bishop already was a jerk, but that dude just takes it even further.

OH BOY ENABLEMENT WAHOO!!

I definitely agree that IDW Agent Bishop gives the 03 original a run for his money in terms of awfulness. While he does have more of a "tragic backstory" per se, 03 Bishop somehow has more honor and redeeming qualities in comparison. The way both their respective stories end contributes a lot, too.

SO, first: a brief observation on IDW's character. There will be spoilers for those who haven't read the comics yet, just as an fyi. Bear with me, it's been a few months since I read up so I might bungle some of the details.

Jonathon Bishop is certainly less formidable in terms of accolades than his predecessors. He didn't found EPF, he inherited it, and it is not a well-oiled machine, extension of his own will the same way it is for 03-- in fact, a lot of his subordinates are written as individuals and don't seem to like him as a person, much. But what makes this Bishop scary is how he is driven beyond what should be reasonable. Even in situations where it would probably be beneficial for him to back off, he tends to keep pushing, anyway. He'll put himself in a rough spot so long as he can ensure he'll be screwing over his target, too.

This Jonathon guy pretty explicitly has the capacity to care about others, too, he genuinely loves and respects his father. Which is what makes it all the more terrifying that he was willing to kill him at his own convenience-- once again, just to ensure he could rip away his enemies' advantage. He justifies it after the fact, like he gave his father a proper death, better than wasting away in a nursing home, but personally I think that's just a cope. While we know he can care, he very seldom offers that to anyone else. With his own employees he kinda tends to be downright mean, or at the very least blunt and unconcerned.

IDW's Agent Bishop is one that sees the entire world as hostile, so being on his side doesn't really spare you. The only person we know he didn't see as an enemy was his father. He has been faced with so much fear and judgement over his true appearance that he is desperate to prove himself just as human as everyone else; he believes the appearance of being human is what lends one humanity-- when, in fact, it's how one treats those around them. This is why he leans so hard into Othering anything non-human, to justify his own place in the world, and also why the mutants tend to have more humanity than he ever did.

This is also why he appears to have much less of an honor system than his 03 counterpart. IDW Bishop is FAR more emotional and a little less professional than the other. He acts based on what will make him feel the least uncomfortable, working backwards with his logic to justify his actions. Intelligent as he is, he isn't reasonable. His ego is far greater because it's built on a DEEP and intense insecurity with himself. (In comparison, 03 Bishop may have a dubious sense of personhood, but he has never been shown to be unsure of his right to exist or his place in the world.)

Also btw it's cool af that he's a blend between 03 and 2012 Bishop's concepts. Like I can't praise enough how creative that is, especially with how smoothly it fits into the lore of IDW and their Utrom. The fact that he's still human, but his mech also originates from Utrom tech that EPF salvaged is just SO COOL. I think this alone would cause both other Bishops extreme discomfort lmao

As an aside, I've seen some of the fandom attack his true appearance and that's kinda fucked up. He thinks it makes him lesser, but it doesn't. The way he looks is not the root of the problem, it's the way he was treated because of it and the way he internalized that. He needs to make an enemy out of mutants in part because deep down he believes what people like those scientists in the flashback said about him. So like, yeah, it's kinda a bad look when fans acts the same way as those dudes. Literally there are so many better things to insult IDW Bishop on. I mean you've seen his general personality, right? The way he acts is what makes him a monster.

(Hmm. I said this was supposed to be brief, didn't I? Woops.)

NOW! COMPARISONS!

There is a LOT to delve into between IDW and 03. They have very similar plots on the surface, but every fine detail is so very different. IDW is a fanatic, more at the mercy of his emotions and whims than I think he even realizes. 03 is driven to unreasonable lengths, as well, but he is surprisingly cold about it, when you look into his actions deeper. While IDW reacts and then works backwards to justify it, 03 is shown to be able to suppress his impulses and strategize properly, with his more fanatical qualities being a fun little bonus he indulges in sometimes. This manifests in their respective success rates; IDW often ends his confrontations with a loss of something, culminating in his final confrontation and death. 03, on the other hand, tends to walk away successful a good chunk of the time, and even when he doesn't he usually gets something out of it, anyway.

Their ages have a lot to do with these differences and how they can be interpreted, too. 03 Bishop is old, he straight up comes from a bygone era. Of course his thought process would be a little wild and off-the-wall to most people, his circumstances are so unique and he is so removed from what a normal person's experience might look like. IDW has a normal human lifespan, so he has a little less room for understanding (though granted, he did not have a very common upbringing, either.)

Another big one is that 03 does not give a damn about threats originating from Earth. This is why he kinda disregards mutants beyond their usefulness to his science-- and that one time he almost accidentally caused an apocalypse, but I digress. 03 Bishop is still like, a xenophobic motherfucker, but he doesn't have it out for mutants or avians or Y'Lyntians or what have you, because working within his logic, they belong to earth. It's not especially about looks, to him, the same way it is for IDW. IDW, on the other hand, hates anyone that isn't specifically human, and wants them dead.

IDW's motivations are very internal. The fears that fuel him come from an intense sense of not belonging, of being Other'd and feared by the people around him. He projects that onto an external enemy so he can deny it. The fear that motivates 03 is an external one. He is terrified of extraterrestrial forces taking away his sense of security and control, fueled by his extremely traumatic abduction. It created an Us vs Them in his mind where he was on the side far weaker. Earth was safe, on earth he understood how things worked, but in the sky there was confusion and agony. He endeavored to ensure the sky could never bring that down to the earth.

John Bishop is a monster, but he's a monster that can be bargained with. Jonathon Bishop is a monster, and if he decides you're one, too, he'll seek to destroy you no matter the consequences.

Now, 12 Bishop is such a departure that he can only be vaguely compared with IDW (and basically not at all with 03-- though his disposition might be comparable to Fast Forward Bishop's.) Specifically, 12 Bishop might as well be the exact opposite to IDW Bishop in every way. He is extremely measured; even when he's clearly frustrated, we can see him tempering himself to try solve the issue at hand. He has proven to be notably selfless, often prioritizing the safety of others (even when the people of earth should be aliens with a fraction of his lifespan, to him,) over his own. He seems to function under the assumption that every living thing has a right to a life, and will act accordingly to protect that. He's basically the antithesis to everything the IDW version stands for imo.

One thing that fascinates me, as well, is that each incarnation of Bishop has a wildly different age range. 03 is about 230-something, 2012 Bishop is likely older than the planet Earth itself, and IDW is like, 40. He's the only one we know so far that has a normal human lifespan

On the prompt of any of them interacting: the drama potential here is great. Like with their ages, all the Bishops also have WILDLY different goals.

03 Bishop has a passing scientific interest in mutants, but his goal of protecting earth from outside forces does not really concern them that much when you get down to it-- he's more often than not busy doing his own thing, and clashes with the turtles tend to be incidental (after their initial introduction; he got what he wanted, so he didn't seek them out after.) In fact, I strongly suspect after a point he would begin to see the turtles as more useful alive, considering the amount of times they've been integral to protecting earth.

12 Bishop is straight-up an ally and friend to the turtles. Their goals align in a common need to defeat Krang Prime, but he goes beyond that to make sure they and their home are safe, too. It's specifically noted he's not supposed to get involved and help them like this, but he does anyway because he's a genuinely kind person (and a responsible adult, even, who has been shown to not want to put teenagers in the line of fire more than necessary. But hey, we'll save that for a future post of his own.)

IDW Bishop specifically despises anything non-human, and goes out of his way to target mutants. He is fueled by deep-running insecurities about his own appearance, projecting his own fear at being percieved as a monster onto external "threats." He can't feel like a monster if they're the REAL monsters. Compared to them, he's human, he thinks. He'd despise the other two for their percieved complacency and ignorance.

IDW and 03 definitely would not get along, they've got the exact wrong mix of "too similar" and "just different enough." But both would absolutely HATE 12 lmao. Specifically, 12 being an alien bearing the same name as them would hit IDW too close to home with the similarities in their body situation-- which, yknow, tends to manifest as a murderous obsession, with him. 12 generally tries to seek peaceful resoltuion when possible, but I can't imagine he'd have a very high opinion of the other two, either. Considering his strong sense of justice, he'd probably be down for a fight to the death.

And since I'm on the topic of IDW, I want to take this opportunity to enthuse about two other EPF members original to this series that I am very much attached to. The first of which being Wayne Bishop, himself. THIS guy is so interesting to me, for how little we get on him. As this universe's founder of EPF, he's instantly got so much going on, already. He's either former CIA or former FBI, and slowly moved into investiagting UFOs and other paranormal occurrences in an official capacity. He acts like a very respectable professional, but you KNOW there's gotta be a little quirkiness in this old guy to take that route. And he's got FAMILY DRAMA which is always very fun. He struggles to balance his heavy workload with being a family man, to the point where I think it's implied his marriage falls apart? And his solution is to involve his son in his work, quite literally, letting Jonathon stay in one of the facilities and spending a lot of resources in ensuring he will be able to pass as "normal" if he wants to. He had his son's mech designed after himself. He loves his kid and his wife very much and he still fucked it up. He's so interesting for that.

The other is AGENT RAVENWOOD BABY WOOOOO. She is so damn cool, I feel like I might enthuse too much to be able to make any coherent points. Her design, her DESIGN. I feel like she also borrows-- or has in common-- a lot of concepts from 03 Bishop that were not inherited by either Wayne or Jonathon. She's a failed human experiment that now has longevity and a strange body-- one that offers benefits and drawbacks alike. What's fascinating here is that she worked closely with Wayne in EPF's early days, and volunteered to undergo experimentation as part of the organization's research. She and Wayne were friends, and that makes her tense relationship with his now-grown son very interesting, to me. She also proves to be empathetic and willing to try and understand the mutants as people, though her efforts were wasted on Bebop and Rocksteady. I think she's so dang rad and I want to see more of her so bad. Especially now that her friend's son and murderer has died, too.

I also need to shoutout IDW Stockman. I love that guy so much. He might be my favorite incarnation of the character so far ngl (though Mutant Mayhem has Giancarlo Esposito voicing him so. This may change.)

To round us out, here's a fun little headcanon/theory I have in my back pocket: in any universe where specifically John Bishop, double-centenarian doesn't appear, it means he just never got abducted by aliens. He lived out his days in the 1800s with a normal human lifespan. Maybe he's somewhere on the the IDW Bishops' family tree idk

Anyway, thank you so much for the ask and enabling me to just ramble ad nauseum, hope this was what you were looking for lol!

#agent bishop #tmnt #asks #tmnt 2003 #tmnt 2012 #idw teenage mutant ninja turtles #agent ravenwood #the IDW run is really really good gang #I do really like Bishop in IDW but he doesn't set my brain on fire the same way 03 does #but he's still a GREAT villain. somehow infinitely more hateable #did any of this make sense? who knows #my man 2012 Bishop is so due for a post now

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