#i'm not as good at analysis as you are
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aunmenosheteroenespanol · 10 months ago
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2.12 Chimney Begins - 2.09 Hen Begins - 2.16 Bobby Begins Again - 7.04 Buck, Bothered and Bewildered
Tommy's family arc
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breadandlottery · 7 days ago
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One man. Three personas. Each one a foil to the protagonist in a different way.
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triglycercule · 1 month ago
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alright,,,,,is this newyears gift,,,,,, i dont no. but maybe it's late enough that i'll be able to forget that i drew this 😁😁😁😁 mttpoly doodles. whoever sees this sees this
#triglycercule kist is real i know someone that will be very happy with this#you dont know how badly i wanted to squeeze a horrorkiller on somewhere focusing on horror's spine#horror sane spin still on my mind. underneath that zipped up jacket is a crop top hand made by horror himself ‼️‼️‼️#auagahhhhhbtheyre all so stupid can you tell i didntbknow what to do for kist (but its nice and i think its cute and a little fitting)#did not finish (or start) the killer analysis so idk anything about him fully still#like this is a tad bit more platonic leaning (something i'd put in my fic) but i still like it#because killer's very aware of everything that will go on and dust has a no murder streak#and something something killer doesnt wanna have to deal with the pain that is dust's emotions#dust knows damn well killer doesnt mean to be nice but he's being nice anyway#and in my eyes dust is nice(ish)est of all of them (and respectful too i think) so he says thank you just because#it takes killer like 3 weeks to figure out how to respond to dust's thank you. i am too tired to figure out what he said in return#NOT EVEN THAT TIRED BUT I GOTTA STAY UP FOR THE SAKE OF STAYING UP‼️‼️‼️‼️ gotta wait until 2am...... then untitled2987601111 awakes#i'm seeing people read horrortale or like mtt stuff and i am very happy ✨✨✨ mtt nation is swell and the three pillars of it are smitten#(for each other)#everyone looks so weirdly good in this but whatever. time to post!#untitled29876011111 gets the full edition 😁😁😁😁😁#tricule art#thankfully its the middle of the night so nobody will see this x3#killer sans#dust sans#horror sans#murder time trio#murder time trio poly#horrordust#kist#horrorkiller#mtt poly
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thethiefandtheairbender · 2 months ago
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Had a good chat with my partner about it today that maybe let me put a finger on what's always bugged me about "we're here to fix canon" attitudes being so prevalent in fandom (especially in the past 10ish years) throughout my life. This is not to say there's never a time or place for that (I've written fix its myself, or the occasional meta on how something could be fixed/improved) or that people are wrong to (we're anti fandom policing). It's also not an issue to me on the basis of "I love my blorbo in canon and fandom mischaracterizes them in the name of 'fixing' them" etc as it is just... coming from a fundamentally different perspective for story analysis / interaction than most (not all) people in fandom, I think.
One of the reasons I enjoyed getting my English degree was because I was finally being encouraged to and taught in alignment with what my brain had always be inclined to do: you always assume that there's a reason, and a good reason, for the story to do whatever it's doing. It assumes that the story is already exactly what it is supposed to be as it is supposed to be, and it's up to you to find the reasons Why.
The story was boring, or made you feel uncomfortable/bad, or you couldn't root for a character or relationship? All of that, at least at the beginning, doesn't really Matter. You assume that the story is paced fine, you assume the discomfort was intentional or part of something broader (historical shit that hasn't aged well) or that the dichotomy of "I feel invested or not invested" isn't useful. And in doing so, you replace all that with asking why.
An example I'll use is 1984 by George Orwell. I read that book in high school and I fucking hated it. Normally, I like the protagonist the most in anything I watch/read, but in that book, I loathed both the two leads and were actively rooting for them to be captured and tortured so the book could end faster; it was an actively miserable affair. I don't think that was necessarily the author's intention (certain amount of death of the author is baked in, but for a lot of the texts I was reading, we didn't even know the author or anything substantial about them, i.e. Beowulf) but, more importantly, I don't think any of those things are Flaws or downsides in the text.
Part of this is because 1984 is a dystopian novel (if a romcom book breaks genre convention that badly where you're miserable reading it, yeah, maybe something went wrong, but more on that in a minute) but even then it doesn't really matter on the basis of genre; I'm sure some people read 1984 and felt fascinated/excited while reading.
Rather, the focus becomes: what do I find so unlikeable about the protagonists? Why would they be written that way (on purpose)? What does it say about the society they live in? What does it say about their characterization, social stratification, etc etc? If a character does something that I think is non-sensical, why? Have I missed something? Should I watch retrospectively for clues? Is there another way to engage and to understand? Is what I label as confusion potentially a, or the, Point?
It is only after finding the reasons, and/or finding them unsuitable, that I let my subjective feelings into play. While a story can have great merit on the basis of relatability, relatability or "this aligns with my worldview / expectations / desires / etc." is not the be-all end-all of discerning quality
For example, I'm never going to be a fan of Jane and Rochester (she's 18, he's her 40 year old employer who routinely lies to her) but there are reasons, Good reasons, they get together in Jane Eyre (a book so subjectively boring I struggled through it twice) in response to both when the book was written and with the book's themes / symbols / their characterization. If they didn't end up together, it would be a fundamentally different story; it would not be Jane Eyre. So objectively, it's fine and an understandably massive influence on the western literary canon; subjectively, it's so fucking bad and I'm so glad I never have to read it again. But if I stopped there with my lack of interest or dislike of the main romance, I'd be missing out on what the text has to offer as well, the text.
This applies to more modern day stuff as well. I don't like Double Trouble from SheRa as nonbinary representation, and I'm nonbinary myself; however, I can acknowledge that the things I don't like about them were probably simultaneously empowering and exactly what the author (who is also nonbinary) wanted to be per his own experience of gender. Having a "I assume the text is right" mindset means that I can hold space for my own feelings/analysis (i.e. I also did not like Catra's arc, as I think she needed to learn other things / be written under a different lens) while holding space for the text as is (under the canonical lens of Catra learning it's never too late to be saved, I think her arc is conclusive and well done). And these two viewpoints aren't fundamentally opposed, but can coexist as analytical soup, being equally true / having equal value under the subjective (my view) and more 'objective' (the canon text's construction, or what I / the scholarly consensus, if it exists, believes it to be, anyway) at the same time.
Again, none of this is to say that you can't take issue with a canon text, or want to change something. I remember one time I was watching a show where their refusal to explore a romantic relationship between the female lead and her guy best friend was actively making the show worse; I understood their reasonings of wanting to put them with other people to explore their relationships, and wanting to emphasize a male-female friendship at the core of the story, and I still wanted them to put the two together as a Ship instead for various reasons. But that doesn't mean my line of thinking would've been Objectively Better—assuming if they had been paired together would've been executed in the manner I'd enjoy, or that them being paired with other people couldn't have been executed in ways I would've enjoyed more—merely that I likely would've enjoyed the series more per my own subjective preferences.
What I see in fandom sometimes is that people, understandably, aren't approaching at the start from a "the story always has a good reason" as much as they are speed-running from a "this didn't make sense to me or felt bad/off" and maybe examining why (which is supremely useful!) but not going back to examine the other side of the coin as to why the story would do it anyway.
Because sometimes the story—or a part of a story—is still 'bad' to us. It's just worthwhile to look at why it's 'good,' too.
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starcurtain · 6 months ago
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I wish everyone collectively understood aventurine’s character like you…things would be so much easier! I genuinely don’t understand how people keep getting his motivations wrong??? Could it be because some of the most popular Aven fanfics were written prior to his release? That could have contributed to some of the takes we tend to see about him…thoughts?
I struggled all day to come up with a concise way to answer this and couldn't think of one, so here, have a long-winded ramble:
I don't think early fic writers have much impact in the situation with Aventurine's character now, since most people can look at when a story was posted and go "Oh, this was before we had ____ information."
I think that Aventurine's problem is being a male character in a gacha game. Gacha game characters are designed to sell. Hoyo can sell female characters very, very easily. Give her huge tits and a visible underwear strap and you're good to go. I love all my guy friends, but I'm not gonna sugarcoat it: straight men are not the hardest audience to please. Hit a particular fetish (feet, spandex, dommy mommy), and you're gucci.
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Nah, we all know why Jade's trailer is Like That.™
Male characters in gacha are harder to sell because women as consumers are a little harder to predict. Does every woman want a tall, ripped hunk? Shit, no, small cute boyish models like Aventurine are selling better now? Why?! Would a bad boy be more popular than a nice guy??? It's harder to account for women's tastes, especially because they are often (a little) less visually-oriented.
Hoyo is good at what they do though, and they've figured out that male characters sell very well when they possess at least one of two specific traits:
Endearing vulnerability/helplessness
Gay ship tease
Give a character both, like Aventurine? They might as well be printing money.
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That sound you hear is Hoyo's stock prices rising.
So, from the very beginning, Hoyo is incentivized to create a character that appeals to people, a character people will want to crack their wallets open for. And they achieved this, first and foremost, by giving Aventurine traits that female players (in particular, but men too), find especially appealing: emotional and physical vulnerability.
We see Aventurine's pain. We sympathize with his grief. We identify with his struggle to make meaning of his difficult life. He's our woobie, blorbo, babygirl, whatever the hell they're calling it now.
He can't hide his suffering anymore. He's on the very edge. He's a dude in distress. He's surrounded by enemies! He misses his mama! He's been betrayed! No one understands him like you do, dear player!
The ultimate feeling evoked is: He needs to be saved.
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When people talk about male power fantasies, I think they forget that women can experience them too, and "Emotionally vulnerable man that only I (or my favorite character) can fix" is actually a female power fantasy.
And from there it's really easy, right: the people who shell out cash to buy warps for their harmed-husbando feel like they've saved him; the people who are into mlm ships look for the nearest hot dude to be the savior Ratio was waiting for his time lol.
Morally and intellectually, this type of deep-down-golden-hearted, emotionally-wounded male character is very easy to digest. There is nothing to dislike about this type of character or role in the story: this character is a good guy who has just gone through so many terrible situations, whose victim status makes him endearing, and whose lack of agency means that any of the questionable or downright bad things he does are always the result of someone else forcing his hand, and never something he would have chosen himself.
His motivations are always clear and consistent: get free, heal, and live happily ever after.
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Insert the Wreck-It Ralph meme: "Do people assume all your problems got solved when a big strong man showed up?" But to be fair, a big strong man did kind of solve Aventurine's problem, so--
Anyway, it's simple. It's straightforward. Morally, it's pretty cut and dry, black and white: Aventurine is our hero, which means everyone dictating the course of his miserable life is evil.
Hoyo is not remotely discouraging people from literally buying into this emotional appeal.
And trust me, I get it. I'll be the first to admit that hurt-comfort is its own entire genre in fandom because it is so appealing. People eat up Aventurine's tragic backstory like candy! The idea of watching a character go through hell at the hands of bad guys just to finally find a happy end is like the definition of everyone's favorite story.
In fact... people love Aventurine's suffering so much, they have invented whole new ways for him to suffer that aren't even in the game.
This is where we get all the headcanons that Aventurine was a sex slave, every single person he meets hates him because of his race, the Stonehearts are executioners holding knives to his throat, Jade enslaved him to the IPC with a lifelong contract, his material possessions belong to the company, the IPC is forcing him to take only the most dangerous missions where he is being required by his evil jailers to continually put his life on the line... You name it and I promise you, I can find a fanfic where Aventurine suffers from it. 😂
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Bro can't even sleep in on his day off; life is so hard for this man.
Being serious: if the game is telling us that Aventurine is a victim... Why not make him the perfect victim?
Why not envision an Aventurine with no freedom, who bears no responsibility for any of the horrible situations he is in or any of the dubious things he does?
It's so natural to like that version of Aventurine, so appealing to see a totally powerless underdog use his own wits and charms to claw his way up to freedom. Or, if you're the kind who really relishes angst: It's even appealing to see Aventurine lose more. To delight in fics where he loses his wealth, where the IPC punishes him for past crimes while he's powerless to stop them... (I assure you, this is many people's cup of tea and the fanfics prove it!)
Ultimately, there's nothing wrong with liking characters who are exactly this straightforward! It's completely fine to embrace characters that are intentionally written to be morally above-board, whose primary role in the story is to generate angst by being a good person who suffers, or those characters who never show unlikable traits, bad decisions, or contradictory actions.
The problem is that that's just not who the game is telling us Aventurine is.
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Hoyo may be capitalizing off people who love to envision poor Aventurine still living his life as a slave... But the game also needs to tell a complicated enough story overall to appeal to people who don't care about this specific husbando--Aventurine's role in the actual game's plot has to be interesting enough for almost everyone to appreciate it, not just Aventurine's simp squad. (Don't get mad, I'm in the simp squad with you.)
So his character doesn't stop at just being a pure-hearted victim who is still waiting to be saved.
Aventurine is not that easy to label, and I think the biggest struggle in this character's fandom right now is between people who prefer the even-more-angsty, still-a-slave Aventurine versus people who want a morally grey, self-destructive character instead.
To me personally, while I greatly understand the appeal of fanon!Aventurine and the joy of a really juicy angst fic where characters lose it all, I think that missing out on the depth that canon is suggesting would be a real loss on the fandom's part.
The character motivations that Aventurine shows in the game are complicated. They cancel each other out. They're basically self-harm! He makes almost every situation he's in worse for himself--on purpose.
He is a good person, but also a person who has done unspeakable things. He does have morals, but he's not above allowing those who don't have them to use him to their advantage.
He's both the victim and the victor. He's his own worst enemy. He's a lost little boy who's been making terrible decisions for himself since he was like eight years old, and a grown ass man who is barely managing to fake his way through an existence that destiny is not letting him quit.
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This kind of character is a lot harder to embrace. He's done things that most people would find appalling--like willingly joining up with the organization that let his entire race be massacred. He's invented a whole new peacock persona to frivolously flaunt riches he doesn't even care about (Poison Dart Frog Self-Defense 101). He actively plays into racist stereotypes about his people to manipulate others through their preconceived expectations. He's made a mockery of his mother's and sister's hopes and dreams by endlessly trying to throw his own life away.
He has flaws! He bet everything he had on a ploy without doing his homework to find out if the people he was risking his life for were even still around. (Maybe he already knew, and couldn't bear to admit it, even to himself.) He's intentionally off-putting and obnoxious to everyone he meets (Poison Dart Frog Self-Defense 102). He terrifies everyone who gets close to him by (seemingly) carelessly throwing himself into the jaws of death without the slightest provocation.
He knowingly allows the IPC to exploit his power and talents for profit. Did everyone forget that his role in the Strategic Investment Department is asset liquidation?! Like, his actual day-to-day job is ruining people's lives. Canonically, Aventurine kills people when his deals go bad.
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His motivations change off-screen in two lines of story text. We're told in one line that his biggest reason for joining the IPC was to make money to save the Avgin, then in the next line we find out that's impossible. And... then what? What motivations does he even have now? The whole point of his character arc from 2.0-2.1 is that he was on the edge of giving in to utter despair and nihilism because he couldn't even perceive a single reason to stay alive. He has no purpose in life before Penacony, and that didn't start with the Stonehearts at all??
People keep saying Aventurine was held in the IPC by golden handcuffs, but how do you tie down someone for whom profit is meaningless? What can you offer to a man whose only desire is to bring back something already lost forever? How do you imprison someone whose only definition of freedom is, canonically, death?
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Working for the Stonehearts is obviously not healthy. But that's why Aventurine was doing it--because taking dangerous missions allowed him to put himself at risk. The job that he originally pursued hoping to save his people became a direct means to self-harm, and the IPC's only real role in that was just happily profiting off the results.
The journal entries for Aventurine's quests are there deliberately to tell the player what is on his mind, and none of it has to do with escaping from his job:
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Like... Work is the least of this man's problems.
At really the risk of rambling on too long now, he's also just a massive walking contradiction:
Aventurine is among the most explicitly religious characters in the game, yet he's one of the only people in the entire game that we have ever seen actively question his people's aeon.
You might be tempted to think Aventurine's risky gambles with his life as an adult are a result of giving up after finding out about the Avgin massacre... Butttt no, Hoyo makes sure to tell us that even at knee-high in the Sigonian desert, Kakavasha was already willing to risk himself in a fight to the death against monsters because even back then he found his own life to have less value than a single memento.
He's the "chosen one" who will lead his people to prosperity... except they're all dead.
He's explicitly suicidal... andddd also a pathstrider of Preservation.
He wants to die... He doesn't want to die. He wants to make it end, yet goes to staggering lengths to continually survive. (Every plan risks his life on purpose--but every plan's win condition is also to live.) He life is the chip tossed down, but his hand is trembling beneath the table. When faced with an otherwise unsurvivable situation, Aventurine literally became a winner of the Hunger Games. He beat other innocent people to death with his own chain-bound hands just to come out alive.
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He knows the IPC failed the Avgin and left them to die... and he still willingly sought out a position of power in their organization. Maybe he really is after revenge... but maybe not.
He starts his journey in the IPC with a truly noble goal in mind: to help his people using his newfound wealth and power. He's a good guy who did genuinely want to save the Avgin and repay all those who helped him. But once it became clear he was too late, once it was obvious he would have no use at all for that monetary wealth and power he risked his life to get... What did he do with it? Unlike Jade, we don't see him over here donating to orphanages. (I'm not that heartless; I'm sure he does actually do a lot of good things with his money on the side, but the point is that the game does not show us that--it shows us, over and over again, Aventurine putting on a wasteful, over-indulgent persona toward wealth. We've supposed to feel how meaningless money is to him, how meaningless everything is becoming to him.)
He outright refuses to use underhanded tactics or to cheat at gambles, which is meant to show us that's he's more morally upright than his coworkers. There's an entire exchange where he says that he'll never stoop to using manipulation the way Opal does. But... he doesn't have any issue fulfilling Opal's exact agenda. He was never remotely morally conflicted about denying the Penaconians their freedom by dragging Penacony back under IPC control.
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He's willing to risk his own life, which is one thing--but he's also willing to risk other people's well-being. Topaz accuses him of constantly egging their clients on into dangerous situations; we've actively seen him shove a gun into Ratio's hands and pull the trigger with no care for how Ratio would feel about that on their very first meeting... Dragging the Astral Express crew into the entire Penacony plan in the first place was exceedingly dangerous...
To me, I just think it's vital to understand his character through the lens of these contradictions because they demonstrate the extreme polarity of Aventurine's life: from rags to riches, from powerless to empowered by multiple aeons, from willing to kill to survive to killing himself... He has quite literally lived a life of "all or nothing," and while he is the victim of many terrible situations out of his control, his arc as a character involves facing the truth of himself and the future his own actions are hurtling him toward.
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Frankly, the Aventurine that canon is suggesting is a little annoying. You want to grab him by the shoulders, shake him, and say "Why are you like this?!" And he won't even have an answer for you, because he doesn't even know why he's still alive.
In the end, to me, this is so, so much more interesting. I can read an endless supply of hurt-comfort fics where Aventurine escapes the evil IPC and Ratio is there to fill the void in his life with the power of love and catcakes and be a perfectly happy clam online, but I want canon to continue to serve us this incredible mess of a man who constantly takes one step forward and two steps back.
Who is fully aware of his role as a cog in the grotesque profit-wheel of cosmic capitalism and still manages to say he never changed from the rags-wearing desert rat of the Sigonian wastes.
Who over and over again flirts with nihility but, ultimately, even if he has to wrest it from the grip of the gods themselves with bloody, chain-bound hands, chooses life.
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hildegardladyofbones · 7 months ago
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One of the best things about Disco Elysium by far is that it does not fear ugly women. The world is full of ugly men, but ugly women are so hard to come by.
#I'm not calling the characters ugly btw#i don't believe any one can be ugly#i do not care for beauty standards and thus i don't rank people based on how “ugly” or “pretty” they are#but the characters in DE do not meet the conventional beauty standards and look like actual people with unique faces#and thus would be considered “ugly”#and that is so important to me. i go feral whenever media represents how people look like in real life and not how they look like in the#fictional parallel universe where everyone is a model and where a majority of the movies take place#because irl you don't have to be a model to be desirable#the most attractive man in any video game I've ever played has a receding hairline and a big nose and thick glasses and a small chin#and not only is representing realistic people. just good. in general. but it makes the character of Dolores Dei stand out so much more which#works for the game so well. she's barely human. she's a deity- a myth- a legend. the only version that exists of her now is the one with#glowing lungs. she's perfectly beautiful because she's inhuman. the fact that everybody else looks so human only highlights how inhuman she#has become yk?#if everyone was as conventionally attractive as her then she wouldn't stand out. we wouldn't get why she's so special.#disco elysium#disco elysium analysis#media analysis#beauty standards#this is only one aspect of how this game portrays real people btw. as someone interested in character design this just immediately stood out#to me#the first time i noticed it was when i first met garte and the second time was when i met ruby because neither are conventionally desirable#oh my fucking god the nerds who complain about a woman with a model face having body hair in a video game would perish if they played this#mainstream game/movie studios catering to western masses could never
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poorly-drawn-mdzs · 9 months ago
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you are so whimsical i qant to check out this mdzs (..??) because of your whimsical nature thank you sorry im very high and your art moved me emotionally
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This is simultaneously the sweetest and funniest thing someone has sent me, thank you.
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blueskittlesart · 5 months ago
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*sigh* thoughts on Nintendo's botw/totk timeline shenanigans and tomfoolery?
tbh. my maybe-unpopular opinion is that the timeline is only important when a game's place on the timeline seriously informs the way their narrative progresses. the problem is that before botw we almost NEVER got games where it didn't matter. it matters for skyward sword because it's the beginning, and it matters for tp/ww/alttp (and their respective sequels) because the choices the hero of time makes explicitly inform the narrative of those games in one way or another. it matters which timeline we're in for those games because these cycles we're seeing are close enough to oot's cycle that they're still feeling the effects of his choices. botw, however, takes place at minimum 10 thousand years after oot, so its place on the timeline actually functionally means nothing. botw is completely divorced from the hero of time & his story, so what he does is a nonissue in the context of botw link and zelda's story. thus, which timeline botw happens in is a nonissue. honestly I kind of liked the idea that it happened in all of them. i think there's a cool idea of inevitability that can be played with there. but the point is that the timeline exists to enhance and fill in the lore of games that need it, and botw/totk don't really need it because the devs finally realized they could make a game without the hero of time in it.
#i really do have a love-hate relationship with this timeline#because it's FASCINATING lore. genuinely. and i think it carries over the themes of certain games REALLY well#but i also think it's indicative of a trend in loz's writing that has REALLY annoyed me for a long time#which is this intense need to cling to oot#and on a certain level i get it. that was your most successful game probably ever. and it was an AMAZING game.#and i think there's definitely some corporate profit maximization tied up in this too--oot was an insane commercial success therefore you'r#not allowed to make new games we need you to just remake oot forever and ever#and that really annoys me because it makes certain games feel disjointed at best and barely-coherent at worst.#i think the best zelda games on the market are the ones where the devs were allowed to really push what they were working with#oot. majora. botw. hell i'd even put minish cap in there#these are games that don't quite follow what was the standard zelda gameplay at their time of release. they were experimental in some way#whether that be with graphics or puzzle mechanics or open-world or the gameplay premise in its entirety. there's something NEW there#and because the devs of those games were given that level of freedom the gameplay really enforces the narrative. everything feels complete#and designed to work together. as opposed to gameplay that feels disjointed or fights against story beats. you know??#so I think that the willingness to allow botw and totk to exist independently from the timeline is good at the very least from a developmen#standpoint because it implies a willingness to. stop making shitty oot remakes and let developers do something interesting.#and yes i do very much fear that the next 20 years of zelda will be shitty BOTW remakes now#in which botw link appears and undergoes the most insane character assassination youve ever seen in your life#but im trying to be optimistic here. if botw/totk can exist outside the timeline then we may no longer be stuck in the remake death loop#and i'm taking eow as a good sign (so far) that we're out of the death loop!! because that game looks NOTHING like botw or oot.#fingers crossed!!#anyway sorry for the game dev rant but tldr timeline good except when it's bad#asks#zelda analysis
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heliomanteia · 2 months ago
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Kind of adding on to my previous analysis bit about Davrin's arc, but I'm gonna say I'm concerned about media literacy within the DA fandom if Davrin's arc was hard to comprehend for people.
A little rant-like so I'm putting this under the cut:
VG has a strong and consistent narration that is mirrored or reflected within each companion's quest line: it's all about the bigger picture of personal choices and regrets and change and the inevitability of alteration and the need to live with the consequences — it is also somewhat about mortality and carpe diem. Pretty much every companion's line has something to do with death, coping, trauma, fear, and a big and important personal choice that would alter them as a person — it's always a "neither is better" choice and it calls upon your personal judgement to be made. There's room for criticizing the necessity of the black-and-white nature of some choices (i.e. Taash's culture question, for example) but overall they all have a consistent and equally important narrative line.
Claims that Davrin's arc is about Assan are actually hilarious. I assume people saying that have never in their life encountered a story where the main character had an animal companion, or just less sentient companion, that reflected their personality or some of their inner conflict. You know, the staple Disney/fantasy trope. This is an incredibly common narrative tool, it's bizarre to me that people saw that Assan has a lot of screen time and immediately assumed it's no longer about Davrin just because of that. I guess I could say it's not particularly shocking to me that DA fandom of all places had an issue of keeping their focus on a Black man's story. Moving on.
As for the claims that Davrin's arc is about Isseya, I'm a little shocked that was even a talking point. Because just as "animal companion reflecting the character's struggle" is a narrative tool that's up there among the ten most frequently used in media, "antagonist that reflects the main character's pathway in an inverted, perverted manner" is just as frequently applied. In fact, it's concerning that people missed Davrin vs. Isseya mirroring in the game based around the concept of recognition through the other and mirrors of self (Solas vs. Rook). I think it's safe to say that if someone did not catch anything about Davrin's arc and how it's entirely about him, I don't trust their general opinion on DATV overall. Because they're fucking stupid/didn't pay attention.
I don't think it's any surprise that at certain points VG gets a little too exposition-heavy, because apparently just giving people a good storyline with consistent and repetitive narrative that breaches the same narrative points but reflects it differently depending on the character it's about is not enough? Some people will be given the most direct mirror narration there could be without spoon-feeding it and they will still miss the whole fucking point? I'm not shocked that a large bit of "criticism" on VG writing/narrative/what was kept and what was omitted from being mentioned has been genuinely shit. And has consistently offered "fixtures" that would just make the stable narrative of VG a mess without a main theme.
Anyways, Davrin's storyline is very directly about him in every aspect mentioned; every person within his story reflects back on him and fleshes him out.
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ablogofloveandtrash · 1 month ago
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Ok but...
Are we not going to talk about how affected Damon can get when it comes to acceptance and validation? All throughout the segment where Damon had to choose to take back his accusation on Diana with logic or emotions, that throughout the entire thing, the main takeaway was how Diana's actions towards him got to him. The Pathos route shows his internal conflict more but even if the player goes with the logos route, the game still finds a way to show that Damon's emotions do affect him and his judgement. When he sees Diana and hears her cry, his empathic side comes out and part of him begins to feel conflicted on his initial accusation. The others are scared, frightened or angry at Diana, but in the midst of the chaos, Damon begins to feel for Diana. He seems to be aware that Diana was the cause of his inner turmoil yet is unsure of the reason.
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Currently I think part of the reason may be simple. It's that Damon has known and felt Diana's kindness before the trial. For in the brief moments they spoke in Daily Life, Damon quietly takes in his thoughts when Diana gave him and Eva the benefit of the doubt. At this point, Damon was probably going on the assumption that the others, especially Wolfgang were not going to be welcoming to him, especially after no one seemed to initially accept his words and mostly deemed that Damon just thought he was 'better' than everyone else. So seeing that Diana still wants to include the two that were casted out and isolated from the rest, Damon adheres to it. To some extent it almost seemed like he is rather drawn to this kindness on a subconscious level. As though he is rather unused to how Diana acts around him, with the way she playfully flirts with him in the first free time event. As he seems speechless whenever Diana expresses joy or excitement even for the little things, when she asks him a few questions in both free time events. Damon clearly has not spoken to many others around him and his lack of sociability is present. But it also shows how sensitive and reactive he is in the situations he is in with Diana involved.
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Screen shot below shows his visible reaction to Diana's. He just said 'Sure, I guess.' Provided how excited she looked it makes relative sense that Damon didn't expect someone to find so much delight in his response. But despite how much Damon tries to not express himself as much as Diana does, as he tries to act calm and cool, he does quite the opposite. Reacting to when Diana jokes that Damon could work on his tie. Provoking a reaction out of him. Parts of it even dives on what I could guess as a lack of self esteem for Damon. Because even though he's a loner and doesn't quite wear his heart on his sleeve, he finished the first event feeling overwhelmed. I believe this is due out of him not being used to such flattering company that he didn't quite know how to process it. And provided the way he said it, does seem to establish that Damon at his core really shows that he is lonely and has a sense of self loathing.
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Damon almost seems to take in those words like it's some sort of mockery towards him. Like as if, he views self-help as a pointless thing that serves to make fun of him. It rather makes me pity Damon when I saw this. Yet even though he felt exhausted, he seems to feel flattered and touched by her attempts to comfort him. Something he continues to process to the next free time event, when he confronts her on her attempts to please and flatter him. And because of his curiosity and lack of knowledge around kindness, he always finds himself thinking about it. Becoming drawn to it, like something in him deeply yearns for. But his mind fights Damon on it, as he is caught up in the killing game. Because in the game, becoming too trusting with others could make him an easy target. He is suspicious of her behaviour in the second event and even into the night before the first body discovery.
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Because as much Damon deep inside wants to be cared for and accepted, he still cannot fully trust her kindness. Yet he is still left thinking about it, as he ignored Tozu's announcements and lets his thoughts stew until he returned to Kai's dorm. This was the last major interaction between him and Diana, up until the trial. And as we circle back to the trial, that is where we see Damon's feelings come to light. before the non-stop debate Damon becomes conflicted about his logic and his feelings. Though he has yet to fully know and trust Diana, a part of him didn't seem to want to give up the sliver of kindness that he's finally recieving. In a game of uncertainty, fear and death. Diana's kindness almost feels like a shelter in Damon's heart. He doesn't want to lose hold of it, nor does he want to be met with the disappointment that Diana could have actually killed Wolfgang. From the way he reacts in the moment, it almost seems like Damon had emotionally craved for something like Diana's unconditional kindness. Even when suspicion was still on Diana, Damon seemed restless about the accusation until he can fully assure that Diana was innocent and that she did not commit the murder. Even after suspicion on Diana starts to clear, that Damon remains vigilant. He isn't as quick to jump to a culprit but he internally reminds himself that while Diana could have thrown the car battery, later into the trial, that it is only a possibility as of now. It is not the truth as of yet.
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It's almost certain that Damon has grown attached to Diana, or the kindness she offers him outside of the trial. Perhaps it is from being deliberately isolated is what causes him to become drawn to her. Her concern and affection. For even if it was or wasn't genuine, Damon desperately craved it. These thoughts persist, regardless if you played logos and pathos. But subtly hints more on Damon's emotions if the logos route is played. Yet either way, he recognizes that it's because of Diana, Damon's judgement was affected by her. She's already left an impact on him that he doesn't fully comprehend.
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He goes hard on himself for caring so much about how Diana felt, and how much her feelings affects him, that the pathos route doubles down on. His attraction is something he seems to be attempting to push away, even though it is unlikely that his attraction won't go away for the time being. Even if the future may look grim, and that Diana has plans to follow in Wolfgang's footsteps, it's not going to deter Damon from having such profound feelings and attachment. It really makes any possible interactions all the more intriguing with their opposing personalities and views. Yet the two could grow closer in ways we've yet to expect. As with Damon is now left raw and vulnerable from his losses at the end of the chapter, he's even more at the mercy of his emotions rather than not. More so with the way Diana is making him feel. She sees the good in others and because of her influence slowly brings out the good in Damon. Even if he's unsure of it, or ready to acknowledge it, she too could help Damon change for the better. Perhaps if she became a rival, it is to challenge his character and his heart. It's an intriguing take to the rival role if the game goes in that direction.
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bonefall · 5 months ago
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the worst parent poll made me realize just how many ppl in the fandom are willing to jump straight into abuse apologia. bc on one hand you have ppl dumbing down crow's abuse to "him just being mean" and on the other end you have ppl saying that curlfeather didnt abuse frostpaw because she sacrificed herself and frost + her siblings love her so she couldnt possibly be an abuser. truly mindboggling stuff take these serious topics away from the fandom asap.
Part of me feels like it's because many in this fandom have a feeling that if a character's actions are abusive, it means you're "not allowed" to like them. Like there's an impulse where if you liked a character, it MUST mean they weren't THAT bad, because you'd personally never like "an abuser."
As if it reflects poorly on your own morality, as a person, that you connected with An Abuser. Understood them, even. Even if it was just a character.
If it's immoral to Like Abusive Characters, of course your reaction is going to end up being abuse apologia. To enjoy something isn't logical, it's emotional, so you will get defensive about it when questioned. When you do, it's not going to be based on logic because you didn't reason yourself into that position in the first place. It's an attack on you as a person.
I feel like that's often the root of abuse apologia in this fandom, and sometimes the world at large; "If I admit that this character/person IS abusive, it means I was doing something bad by liking them, so I have to prove to everyone else that they weren't or it means I'm bad too."
And to that I say... That's a BAD impulse! Grow up and admit you resonated with a character that did a bad thing! If that's an uncomfortable thought, sit with it!
Sometimes abusers are likeable! They usually DO think they're justified in their actions, or doing it for "a good reason," or were just too preoccupied to care. MOST of the time, people who commit abusive actions are also hurt or traumatized in some way. You might even empathize with them. None of this means their actions have to be excused or downplayed.
"Abusers" aren't a type of goddamn yokai, they're people just like you and me. You don't help victims of abuse by putting the people who hurt us in an "untouchable" category.
In fact, all it does is make you less likely to recognize your own controlling behavior. You're capable of abuse. People you love are capable of it, too. People who love YOU can still hurt you.
In spite of how often people regurgitate "It's Ok To Like A Character As Long As You're Critical Of Their Actions," every day it is proven to me further and further that no one who says it actually understands what that means.
All that said; I think it's no contest which one's a worse parent, imo.
They both mistreated their children, but Curlfeather did it through manipulation without verbal or physical abuse. She politically groomed her into a position of power so that she could use her as a pawn. It can be argued if this counts as child abuse-- but it's firmly still under the broad category childhood maltreatment, which is damaging.
(though anon I'm with you 100% at seeing RED when "but she sacrificed herself" is used as an excuse. Curlfeather's death does NOT CHANGE what she did to Frostpaw in life. I think it's a valid point to bring up when comparing her to another terrible parent for judgement purposes, such as in the context of this poll, but I really hate the implication that redemption deaths "make up" for maltreatment.)
Crowfeather, meanwhile, is textually responsible for putting Breezepaw through verbal AND physical abuse, as well as child neglect. His motivations include embarrassment from a hurt ego, revenge on his ex, and being sad because of a dead girlfriend. This abuse drives Breezepelt towards radicalization in the Dark Forest.
You could argue Curlfeather is a worse person for Reedwhisker's murder, but as a parent? It's not even a question to me. Crowfeather's one of the worst dads in WC.
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carlyraejepsans · 1 year ago
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to summarize an unduly rambly post: our control over kris has been steadily growing more and more distressing for them throughout the story. the snowgrave route, possibly the most gut wrenching, violating imposition of our will on theirs AND Noelle's (*homer voice* so far!), explicitly, thematically, and visually represents possession and coercion through romantic imagery, specifically rings and weddings. it's nauseating. it forces both of them into an implied relationship that neither of them is comfortable in by leveraging noelle's desperate wish to reconnect with her childhood friend. it has exactly the horrible connotations you don't want it to have.
ralsei being presented as both a direct callback to asriel—both the undertale asriel we know, and y'know... kris' brother in deltarune—while also setting him and kris up in a clearly romantic context that kris does not seem to either share or be comfortable with, is not a coincidence. it's not an accident. "isn't that a little incestuous" that's the point! kris' agency being stripped away is one of deltarune's main thematic cores: the game is repeatedly setting up a pattern where that theme is reinforced by putting kris in upsetting, unwanted romantic relationships for OUR entertainment. nothing fits the bill better than pairing them with the nostalgia bait companion that literally looks like their brother.
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lochallthedoors · 2 months ago
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Video clips: Liam at Cardiff, Lock the Box, Oasis at iTunes, Liam at Rockfield
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lawbreaker13 · 1 year ago
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Alright, I'm about to have a Trolls moment. Please ignore me if you will.
So I'm starting to have a meltdown over Branch's brothers' understanding of who he is as a person.
Like, they were fully absent during his entire childhood and young adulthood, of course. And we all keep making jokes about how they didn't tease him enough about his relationship because, duh, that's what brothers do. But what I have yet to see discussed is his confidence as an individual, how he interacts with the audience as a band member, and how his brothers are simply not interacting with a person they've ever met before.
Like, there's the whole "boy band members are so suave so as to properly appeal to their audience" thing, and Branch, post-World Tour, has gained a lot of confidence. Yes, most of his audience interaction is aimed at the band's biggest fan, his own girlfriend, but he does so very smoothly. The level of confidence that Branch has gained since the first movie is immense and it's actually so heartwarming to watch the two movies back-to-back to see, but beyond that, his interactions with Poppy, as her boyfriend and also as a band member, are very confident, flirtatious, and charming. He's playing up the persona when he's on stage of course, but they also flirt a lot on their own as seen in this movie. And while yes, his brothers being his brothers would probably off-screen tease him about flirting with his girlfriend, they also have no idea how he is as a band member. Because the last time they were in a band together, Branch was IN DIAPERS. Spruce was the Heartthrob, the flirt, the tease, and Branch was a BABY. But now Bruce is married, he's checked out of that life. And even if it's all directed at Poppy because Branch is a very loyal boy (clearly), he still has never exhibited those specific behaviors in front of his brothers. It's funny and easy to make fun of when it's with his girlfriend, but when he does it as a band member? Then it's a persona. And he's absolutely killing the game.
The boys have never met this suave, confident adult. They've never seen Band Member Branch with his own personality, with character traits, with the ability to make decisions for himself in any form. So his new band persona is, apparently, to some extent, the flirt. And his brothers must be reeling from that, because WHO is this guy??
I don't have a point. My point is just the idea that once upon a time, when Branch was in the band originally, he was just Some Kid™. And now he's not just some kid, he is A Boy Band Member™. And kind of the new leader, to boot. Beyond that, to Poppy, he was just Some Depressed Guy™ for so long. And once again, look at him now. The character development combined with character perception is just so absolutely fascinating to me and the lack of time to elaborate on it is very much the reason why fanfiction exists.
I don't know, man. Big Trolls fan over here. I love Branch so much.
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deoidesign · 9 months ago
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I have freaking silly little guy disease...
After a full day of work (drawing them) I relax and draw for fun (drawing them)
ON GOD I am going to create and fuel my own fandom. If every post in the tag is mine so be it but it will not be empty. drink from my cup.
Such a big fan I'm making their whole comic and then some
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jinxedshapeshifter · 17 days ago
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Why Kristoph Gavin Is Like That: An Essay
Alright so common sentiments I've seen regarding Kristoph are "Why is he like that" and "I want to study him in a lab" and I am a psychology nerd, so I decided to analyze Kristoph. Obligatory disclaimer: I am not a psychologist. Wanting to analyze Kristoph's behavior may or may not have gotten me interested in criminal and forensic psychology but I am not a psychologist. I am simply a guy who likes to psychoanalyze fictional characters from the most clinical perspective I can get to without actually being a psychologist. So let's begin.
Part 1: Diagnosing Kristoph Gavin
The thing about Kristoph is I think to fundamentally understand him, you need to diagnose him. In fact, I haven't posted my analysis of Kristoph's black Psyche-Locks because of it. As I said, I'm not a psychologist, but I do enjoy looking through the DSM-5 every once in a while, so I'm going off of that.
When you first look at Kristoph's behavior, you would (understandably) say he's a narcissist. From a purely colloquial perspective, this is absolutely true. However, I also think he very likely has narcissistic personality disorder. To be completely clear, I don't think his behavior is inherently a result of this. I think his behavior is a result of realizing he has a problem (even if he doesn't realize it's narcissism, he does acknowledge that he's fucked up because the reason he gives for killing Zak is "I am an evil human being") and not bothering to get help for it. In fact I'd argue he embraces it. So let's go through the DSM-5's diagnostic criteria for NPD (I don't need to explain where most of these are applicable but I'm going to anyway).
Criterion 1: Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements) - While I don't personally think the examples provided by the DSM-5 are reflective of Kristoph's behavior (although I think an argument could be made about him exaggerating his achievements, depending on if you think he was forging evidence before the Gramarye trial, which I personally do but I'll get into that later) I absolutely think he has a grandiose sense of self-importance because he canonically has a god complex, which is implied to be why he became a defense attorney; by doing that, he made people depend on him and literally had people's lives in his hands.
Criterion 2: Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love - I don't really know exactly how applicable this is, and it might've been more applicable when he was younger. However, he was so determined to get a win over Klavier in Klavier's first trial to forge evidence over it, so there's something to be said about him having a preoccupation with success not unlike Manfred I think.
Criterion 3: Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions) - He literally says this himself. He literally says the jury is made up of "ignorant swine" and says they're soiling the courts, I don't know what else to say on this point
Criterion 4: Requires excessive admiration - I will once again point you to the implication that he became a defense attorney specifically to make people dependent on him. The judge calls him the best defense attorney in town so I think it's safe to assume he's never lost a trial (which I will bring up again later). The nanosecond it's implied Apollo is turning on him and losing admiration for him, Kristoph takes it as a fucking betrayal, specifically saying "Et tu, Justice? You would betray me, your teacher?" Reminder, this is because Apollo decided to listen to Phoenix's testimony.
Criterion 5: Has a sense of entitlement (i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations) - Can I say his cell is evidence of this? No? Alright. He seems pretty fucking upset when he's reminded he's not the defense attorney in Phoenix's case. What does this imply? He acts like he's entitled to acting as the defense attorney during the case. This in comparison to the other defense attorneys who have acted as co-counsel at some point (Mia, Diego, Phoenix, Apollo, Kazuma, Athena) who let the acting defense attorney do their damn job. Like it might even be that no other lawyer acting as co-counsel has ever acted as entitled as Kristoph does that makes it feel like Kristoph comes off as entitled in the first place (in which case, I very much think Kristoph is meant to come off as entitled during Turnabout Trump).
Criterion 6: Is interpersonally exploitative (i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends) - I'm not explaining this. Phoenix's disbarment hinged on this, I refuse to explain this. I already made a post about it in regards to Apollo, I'm not explaining this here
Criterion 7: Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others - I think in order to be as horrible as he is, he would have to lack empathy. Idk. Like he obviously lacks empathy but I don't know how to explain it.
Criterion 8: Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her - Literally his motive for everything. He got Phoenix disbarred because he was upset over Zak firing him.
Criterion 9: Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes - I will once again direct you to him calling the jury "ignorant swine" in Turnabout Succession.
That is 8 out of 9 criteria he definitely meets and one that's debatable. You only need to meet five of the critera to be diagnosed. The only reason one is debatable is because we don't get into Kris's head. Conclusion: "Kristoph has NPD" isn't an unreasonable assumption. Kristoph having NPD is actually why I haven't posted the analysis on his Psyche-Locks; I didn't think I could explain Kristoph having NPD well in that post and having that explanation is crucial to understanding that analysis (which will be added to this one instead of it being its own post).
As I said at the start, I do not think Kristoph having NPD makes him a horrible person. I think he knows he has a problem, and instead of getting help for it, he embraces it. He chooses not to get help and that choice and him borderline embracing his narcissistic traits is what makes him a horrible person. This is yet another thing that makes Kristoph and Klavier so interesting; Klavier exhibited similar narcissistic tendencies at 17 (although not near as bad as Kristoph) but it feels like he recognized that he had a problem and got help for it. Narcissistic personality disorder can be caused by trauma, and it wouldn't surprise me if Kristoph and Klavier had very similar yet very different responses to whatever traumatic event they experienced. In Kris's case, this resulted in NPD that he didn't get help for and arguably embraces.
Part 2: Evidence Forgery & A Perfect Trial Record
The judge explicitly refers to Kristoph as "the best defense attorney in town" when he asks about Apollo's status as the acting attorney and Apollo refers to Kristoph as a "top-notch defense attorney" when he asks Phoenix why he wanted Apollo to be his attorney. In my opinion, both of these statements would imply that Kristoph has never lost a trial. Even Phoenix has lost trials, and he basically had Kristoph's reputation before being disbarred (which has some super interesting implications actually). This is where Klavier comes into play.
For Kristoph to forge evidence to guarantee a win, he's either not as good a defense attorney as his reputation would have people believe, or he was confident Klavier had a chance to win the trial. If we really think about it, I think the first option, that Kristoph just isn't as good a defense attorney as people think, is more likely, and this also leads into the evidence forgery discussion. He had no qualms about spending $100k on forged evidence. This implies one of two things; either he's forged evidence before or he's von Karma levels of rich. I think it's much more likely that Kristoph forges evidence to make up for the fact that he's not actually as good a defense attorney as people think he is.
He's a year younger than Phoenix, so if we assume he became a defense attorney at the same age as Phoenix (24), he'd already been a defense attorney for two years at that point. Going a bit further, if we assume he became a defense attorney at the same age as Apollo (22) instead, then he'd been an attorney for four years by the time Zak's trial was happening (and he had been an attorney long enough by Zak's trial to be well known, as Klavier says "Ah, figures my bro's more famous in this part of town" when the judge asks if Klavier and Kristoph are related). There's plenty of room for him to forge evidence there, as long as the decisive evidence doesn't require replication of something that would be unique, like handwriting. He could (probably) easily forge a murder weapon or a bloodstain. This would explain why he's so willing to pay $100k for a forgery too. If we keep with the assumption that he forged evidence his entire career but never had to do anything with something like handwriting, he'd probably pay an arm and a leg to get the evidence he needs.
Considering Kristoph is also willing to murder people over a seven year old case, I wouldn't be surprised if he defended people he knew were guilty. Depending on the case, he would probably have to forge evidence at some point.
Part 3: Black Psyche-Locks
Kristoph having black Psyche-Locks when he's asked about why he killed Zak is interesting. It makes a lot more sense if you keep in mind that he is a narcissist. To fully explore Kris's Psyche-Locks, we need to go back to something Spark Brushel mentions in Turnabout Succession's MASON system section.
Spark says that Kristoph started stalking everyone who could conceivably be involved in Zak's case out of paranoia. In Kristoph's brain, this was probably completely justified. His paranoia was specifically rooted in the belief that Zak would appear to someone involved in the case and expose Kristoph's forgery. Kristoph stalked Spark, he stalked Phoenix, he stalked the Mishams, I wouldn't be surprised if he (attempted to) stalk Klavier. If the fact that he forged the evidence that got Phoenix Wright disbarred ever got out, his reputation would be tarnished beyond repair, and to him, his reputation is the most important thing he has. He was so careful about how he handled the forged diary page that nobody suspected anything was even wrong with it except Klavier. All of this adds context to his Psyche-Locks being black instead of red.
I think it's incredibly likely that whether through paranoia-fueled delusion or just not being able to consciously acknowledge that he did kill Zak (which, if revealed and then investigated, could absolutely expose all of Kristoph's wrongdoings, something I think he would've realized), he genuinely didn't realize he killed Zak. I 100% think it's possible that Kristoph genuinely thought he'd killed some random guy on impulse. "But Jinx," I hear you saying, "why would he have gone after Zak if he didn't realize who he is?" As I said, I think it's possible that Kris thought he killed a random guy on impulse. He didn't plan to kill Zak. If he had, he would've been more prepared for it. I think some part of his brain recognized Zak which is what gave him the impulse in the first place, but he didn't become consciously aware of it until Turnabout Succession. Alternatively, he got so far in denial that he managed to delude himself into genuinely thinking he hadn't killed Zak, and he had just killed some rando named Shadi Smith. Phoenix didn't even recognize Zak when he introduced himself as Shadi. If Phoenix, who played poker with and defended Zak and has a picture of him in his office, didn't recognize Zak immediately, why would Kristoph?
It's also not impossible that there are multiple other murders Kristoph's committed that we don't know about. Hell, he tried to poison the Mishams after Zak's trial. At the very least I don't think that was his first time attempting murder. Kristoph's not an idiot, he's just careless (which doesn't surprise me, considering he is so convinced that if he ties his loose ends he won't get caught that he doesn't even tie his loose ends all the way, nor watch what he says in regards to murders he committed). That's not to say he's some kind of mastermind either, but he is intelligent. I don't think he could pull Simeon Saint levels of bullshit but he's very much capable of successfully and skillfully manipulating people. My point here being, if he has murdered other people before he murdered Zak and after he attempted to poison the Mishams, he probably wouldn't be surprised about having the impulse to kill some random guy, making him more inclined to believe he did just kill some guy.
I also think it's worth it to compare how Athena's Psyche-Locks broke in Dual Destinies to Kristoph's behavior. Athena was able to be eased into her Psyche-Locks breaking. She didn't have any reason not to trust the things Phoenix was saying. Kristoph is so paranoid that he doesn't trust anyone. He wouldn't have been able to have his Psyche-Locks broken because he would just deny everything that's being said until he can't deny it anymore and breaks down, something at least directly related to his paranoia, if not also his NPD. This is why I mentioned in this post that breaking Kristoph's Psyche-Locks would always be a bad idea. He'd never get to a point where he'd be able to mentally handle the truth. Kris's trust issues run so deep that he'd never trust anything anyone's saying until the damage is already done and the Psyche-Locks are broken. In Kristoph's case, there's no way to break those fuckers without causing the damage Pearl mentioned as something that'll happen if they're broken when they're not ready to be. I wouldn't be surprised if this is why Kristoph's breakdown in Turnabout Succession is so intense.
Part 4: Kristoph's Personal Relationships
For this section, I'm going to discuss each of Kristoph's relationships separately, then go into what his relationships say about him in general. So let's start.
Kristoph & Klavier
Kristoph and Klavier's dynamic is genuinely one of the most interesting in the Ace Attorney series to me.
Klavier doesn't really talk about Kristoph much, and the same sorta seems to apply to Kristoph. We don't learn anything about Klavier and Kristoph's dynamic until Turnabout Succession, and we know Kristoph didn't talk about Klavier because Apollo didn't even know Kristoph has a brother. When we do see what their dynamic was like in 2019, it's Klavier being used by Kristoph. Kristoph used Klavier to get Phoenix disbarred, and it weighed on Klavier's mind for seven years.
I also think it's worth noting the following exchange from Turnabout Succession:
Klavier: Let's clean out the family closet, eh, Kristoph? Kristoph: You're spinning out of control. Calm yourself before you say something you'll regret. Klavier: Spinning out of whose control? Mine? …Or yours?
Which implies that Kristoph exhibited some kind of controlling behavior towards Klavier. It doesn't surprise me because Kristoph's a control freak. I'd also be more surprised if Klavier wasn't afraid of Kristoph killing him at some point. Additionally, something I mentioned in my Klavier analysis is that in the 2019 section of Turnabout Succession, Klavier does have a good view of Kristoph and even seems to look up to him. He takes Kristoph at his word that Phoenix is going to present forged evidence despite (by 24 year old Klavier's account) finding it weird even then, and keeps him anonymous when he brings up the fact that Phoenix presented forged evidence. Another thing I mentioned in the aforementioned Klavier analysis is that based on Klavier's behavior, he didn't realize Kristoph was manipulating him until sometime after the 2019 section of Turnabout Succession. Something made Klavier realize he was being manipulated. Could be age or that Kristoph did something that made Klavier realize Kristoph was a piece of shit, but no matter what it was, something happened that made Klavier's view of Kristoph shift.
Kristoph & Phoenix
Kristoph and Phoenix are also really interesting to me because Kristoph's end of their friendship is fueled by paranoia, and Phoenix's side is fueled by a desire to keep Kristoph close and basically investigate him. It's toxic on both their ends, and that makes it really interesting. Their dynamic also has a really good example of "Kristoph will lash out if someone even minutely slights him" in both Phoenix's trial and Vera's.
During Phoenix's trial, Kristoph gets so upset over the trial even slightly alluding to the potential for him being present to kill Shadi that the judge has to remind him that Phoenix is his client. Phoenix is also so determined to get Kristoph caught that he forges evidence (technically twice) and revamps the entire justice system (and this was exclusively to get Kristoph caught). They're both incredibly petty with each other. I'm not really sure what to add here, they're just so toxic they should come with a radiation warning.
Kristoph & Apollo
Apollo looks up to Kristoph. Kristoph uses this to his advantage during Phoenix's trial, using the fact that Apollo is loyal to and looks up to both Kristoph and Phoenix to emotionally manipulate him. He then probably tries to use "You would betray me, your teacher?" to further manipulate him, but Apollo's desire to find the truth overrides his loyalty to Kristoph (something Apollo literally tells Kristoph).
Kristoph has one final instance of trying to emotionally manipulate Apollo; he gets Klavier to the point where he essentially shuts down then blames Klavier shutting down on Apollo. This doesn't work of course, and Apollo bulldozes on through anyway.
In general I think we can come to a pretty solid conclusion that Kristoph will either manipulate and gaslight people to get what he wants or stalks them out of an intense paranoia that's directly related to how he sees himself as a result of the NPD he didn't get treatment for. Instead of coping with things like a normal fucking person, he resorts to both physical and psychological violence and stalking.
Part 5: Conclusion
So here we are. Almost 3k words later. I do not want the takeaway from this to be "Kristoph's a manipulative, violent asshole because he's a narcissist" and if that's your takeaway you need to rethink literally everything I said here. The fact that Kristoph could be diagnosed with NPD has nothing to do with him choosing violence. NPD has nothing to do with him choosing to stalk everyone involved with Zak's trial instead of getting help for his paranoia. I want that to be perfectly clear. The thing with NPD is it can be hard for the person suffering from it to realize they have it and subsequently get help for it. Kristoph's problem isn't exactly that he has NPD. It's that he never got help for the thinking patterns the NPD caused. Had he gotten help I don't think he would've ended up stalking and murdering people. He'd still have NPD, but he wouldn't be near as fucked up.
It's why Klavier and Kristoph are so interesting as characters. Klavier has narcissistic traits but he evidently got help for them, as he's nowhere near as egotistical at 24 as he was when he was 17, although he does start exhibiting those traits again under high stress situations. He's still not completely okay mentally (otherwise he wouldn't regress like that), but he's also better than Kristoph at managing his symptoms when they do show up. Kristoph doesn't even try to get help for his symptoms, which leads to his downfall. Had he gotten help for his narcissism, he might've ended up a bit more like Klavier.
I hope Ace Attorney's prison system has a proper therapy program. I hope Kristoph's able to get help when and if he decides he wants it, because I am personally of the belief that everyone deserves help if they want it, and Kristoph's no different. I don't think he deserves to have Phoenix, Apollo, or Klavier back in his life, and I wouldn't blame any of them for never talking to him again, but that doesn't mean I don't think Kristoph deserves help. He would just have to realize he has a problem first, which I doubt happened soon after Apollo Justice and I'd frankly be surprised if it ever happens. But I hope the offer for help is there if he decides he wants it.
So why is Kristoph Like That? Untreated mental health issues that he's implied to realize is a problem.
*Again, please do not act like I'm saying Kristoph having NPD is an excuse for his actions. He chose not to get help. He chose to stalk people. He chose to kill people. Him having NPD isn't an excuse for that. My goal here was simply to answer "Why is Kristoph Gavin like that?" Do not misconstrue my intentions here or what I'm saying. Kristoph's NPD isn't what drove him to do what he did. Him choosing to embrace symptoms that hurt people did.
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