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raven-at-the-writing-desk · 2 days ago

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I wonder what would happen if the Glorious Masquerade gang and the PlayfulLand group swapped places 🤔

I've previously speculated on what Rollo's interactions with Ace, Ortho, Lilia, and Leona would be like! However, those were written under the pretense that there would be an event directly following Glorious Masquerade in the in-game timeline (so the other 11 NRC students would walk in already knowing what went down the first GloMas). The Anon above seems to be asking for a slightly different scenario in mind: what if the Playful Land attendees went to the Glorious Masquerade and the Glorious Masquerade guests went to Playful Land to begin with?

Instead of linking you to those old posts (since they're running on a slightly different premise), I'm going to present you all of my thoughts in this post that you're currently reading!!

Please note:

I will assume the same major story beats play out. The focus of this post is how Rollo, Fellow, and/or Gidel would interact with a different cast of characters, as well as how the NRC boys would react to the new circumstances they are in.

For simplicity’s sake, I will also assume the same SSR trios (even if I think other characters could be as meaningful in those roles); this means SSR Ortho, Ace, and Kalim vs Rollo and SSR Malleus, Idia, and Azul vs Fellow and Gidel. There will be a more intense focus on the interactions between these characters over the others, as well as how they problem solve.

The same rarities apply for everyone else. That means Floyd stays a SR in GloMas, Silver stays a R for Playful Land, etc.

I won’t be talking about Yuu and/or Grim’s roles in these events since they’re present in both and don’t play a large part in the conflict and its resolution. (The latter also applies for Trein.)

Technically I believe only the SSR trio of GloMasq learned about Rollo's motivations in detail, but 🤡 I think it'd be so fascinating if other characters knew and reacted to this knowledge too, so I will be writing my thoughts about that.

Are you ready? Then… Let’s go to the Glorious Masquerade/Playful Land!!

Glorious Masquerade:

Lilia

Gramps would have so much fun exploring the city and learning about its history! He'd be especially fascinated by NBC, since he hasn't had the chance to visit its campus before.

Praises Rollo for being so young yet so knowledgeable and respectful of the City of Flowers' history. It has changed so much since Lilia was last here! They're... amicable enough at first, but Rollo doesn't care for Lilia's penchant for surprises and sometimes juvenile proclivities.

Aggressively cuddles the community goats. (“They’re almost as cute as I am!”)

Of course, Lilia will have to pick up souvenirs for all of his children back home.

Lilia quickly becomes chums with the gargoyles as soon as he realizes they’re alive. He’ll talk about wanting to bring Malleus next time to see the talking gargoyles, which evokes a dark chuckle from Rollo.

Lilia would probably also be busting a move and spamming so much fun magic during the Festival of Fools/Topsy Turvy Day celebration (and make Rollo so mad in the process).

I like to imagine that Lilia, in his old age and wisdom, is the one that identifies the fire lotuses/crimson flowers right away and exposits to everyone else about what they are and what danger they pose to the world.

One of the first to volunteer himself as a sacrificial pawn to let the youngins charge ahead. After all, that's his duty as the oldest in the group 🎵 (but he actually ends up being one of the final ones to stay behind instead of the first; Lilia's just too strong of a card to play right away!)

Assuming that Lilia learns about Rollo's motives in the end, I feel like he'd give Rollo a verbal smackdown (similar to how he went after Leona's ass in book 2). Though Lilia understands the importance of family and the pain of losing loved ones, he'll never agree with, nor stand by, Rollo when he's taking such extreme measures to reconcile with his guilt. He’d probably lecture him at the masquerade too, trying to get Rollo to understand the positives of people opening up and coming together instead of living in isolation and narrow mindedness.

Like Trein, Lilia might keep himself open or make an effort to keep an eye on Rollo following the events. You never know when he might need advice or a mentor figure. What the not attempted was awful, but Lilia won’t allow hate to win out in the end. What he most desires is a world where everyone—even Rollo—can live in harmony.

Jack

Gives Rollo his utmost respect—after all, he’s an upperclassman and a representative from another school!! He tries to smile and listen attentively when Rollo speaks, though it’s hard for Jack to sense much of anything from him. Jack defers to Leona for his opinion, then marvels at his dorm leader’s wisdom.

He’s really impressed by Rollo’s discipline, from his detailed schedules to his exact meals every day. It’s not that different than following a strict training regimen!

Jack is the strong, silent type that just goes along with whatever the rest of his tour group wants to see and do.

His face normally makes people wary or feel intimidated. Since it’s Topsy Turvy Day they celebrate and laugh with him instead of shying away.

The goats try chewing on Jack’s tail, then they get skittish and scatter when he growls at them and tells them to cut it out.

When magic isn’t an option, leave it to Jack to be the raw physical powerhouse that buys the group time to ascend the bell tower!

Jack can't say that he understands Rollo's motivations, but as a big brother himself, he knows he'd be devastated to lose his siblings in such a way. Even so, he can't accept this--no, he swears to protect that which he loves. "Let's see whose will persists over the other's."

Trey

“It's nice to meet another Normal, Totally Sane, and Responsible person you,” Trey says, shaking Rollo’s hand. (Boy has no idea wtf is in store for them later.)

He unnerves Rollo by asking him how often he brushes his teeth and flosses after a single croissant. (Trey should compare his eyes to grapes too :3)

Very interested in sampling the local goods and pastries. He chats with the bakers about their techniques and specialties. Trey will try to recreate them for Heartslabyul since he can’t bring them back fresh for his dorm. Maybe he could try presenting Riddle with a grape tart instead of the usual strawberry?

He makes a dad joke about candying the flowers and eating them like sugared violets. No one laughs so he has to explain he wasn’t serious.

Like Lilia, Trey feels compelled to step up to the plate for his juniors when push comes to shove. “Riddle will kill me dead if I don’t make sure our dorm members are safe.” And with a solemn tip of his hat, Trey’s off to do battle with the deadly blooms.

Trey would feel bad for Rollo once everything comes to light. Of course it’s not easy for an older brother to lose their younger sibling—Trey’s an older brother too. There’s a guilt mixed with his sorrow, a part of him wondering if Rollo would still feel this way had someone been there to emotionally support him. It reminds Trey of his own complicated feelings when he didn’t deescalate Riddle’s rage. Who here was really responsible: Rollo, or the world he felt had failed him? That’s the question that Trey asks himself.

Jade

Jade immediately tries to flatter and befriend Rollo. (It pays to have friends in high places, no?) He makes it known that if Rollo ever needs any help, he’d be more than happy to assist. Rollo assures Jade that he doesn’t, he prefers to work alone—much to the eel’s disappointment. “Well, the offer is always on the table,” he says hopefully.

He'd be fascinated by all of the flora unique to the City of Flowers thanks to the Bell of Salvation's magic. Probably stockpiling stuff to bring back home and cultivate for personal projects such as his terrariums or various potions.

Jade stops by almost every food shop or stall to sample the local wares. He has a very healthy appetite (plus, Azul sent him on a mission to scope out the flavors of the city).

He’d love the glass mobiles—they remind him of the trinkets the Mermaid Princess of old would collect in her treasure trove.

Jade’s at first amused by the idea of flowers that fight back and actually pose a formidable threat to mages. Damn, it should have been him, not Rollo/j It’s so out of the ordinary—how could he not be entertained? It’s not every day that you face the end of the world as you know it.

He still helps in the battle to the bell tower, but he won’t automatically put himself in danger if others are willing to first. Jade has to preserve himself first and foremost! He’d probably try to manipulate NBC mob students to be his human shields before directly fighting the flowers.

Every so often he will drop an ironic comment like, “How dedicated Rollo-san must be to cultivate such beautiful and rare flowers.” (“Don’t act impressed by this!!” his classmates shout back.) Jade reassures them he’s taking this seriously, he’s just stopping to smell the roses along the way 😌

When the truth comes out, Jade claims that Rollo is a “poor, unfortunate soul” and offers nothing but pity for him. Internally, he’s marveling at the turn of events—surprised that the SSR trio would stoop to peeking in Rollo’s diary for information that’s something Jade would do himself www, chuckling at Rollo’s desperate struggle for salvation. It was well worth coming on this trip just to witness this all play out himself.

Cater

He’s his usual friendly, bubbly self around Rollo. The problem is that Rollo doesn’t reciprocate any of Cater’s attempts to socialize—he keeps things curt and professional.

Pulls Rollo into selfies and tells him to smile. Rollo doesn't.

Shocked when he learns Rollo prefers letters for texting or email. Rollo is just as appalled by Cater’s phone addiction.

Loooves the of and breads the city has to offer! The wide variety is aesthetically pleasing and keeps his camera sated. Plus, he doesn’t mind eating them instead of the sweets being offered.

Constantly snapping pictures to post on Magicam, cooing about how he loves "the vibes". (He also has documentation on his phone of the whole "wow, the city is infested with flowers" incident, but had to purge them when the group decides to let Rollo live with the guilt to himself.)

Cater would rely on the others to volunteer as shields first before he gets involves with the battles. He’d probably be one of the students to be forced into a situation where he has to fight the flowers (similar to how Jamil and Ruggie got cut off from the group and were forced to stay behind).

He could use his UM to make Cater copies that help to distract the flowers. I’m not sure how he could be impacted as the caster or if magic would still be absorbed if the flowers got to the clones and made them dissipate upon impact, but it’s worth a shot.

Despair is an emotion that Cater knows well but doesn’t show. Seeing that in Rollo strikes a nerve in him. His own loneliness and hopelessness is an echo of Cater’s. “Do you think this could have been avoided if someone had just been there for him?” Trey asks. (“I don’t know,” Cater replies, feeling as though he’s been punched in the gut. “It’s still totally not cool what he did though!”)

Vil

Cordial introductions and polite conversation are in order. Vil has no trouble navigating the city, nor dealing with Rollo. He’s had plenty of experience with stiff perfectionists in his industry (and it helps that Vil is one himself).

He compliments the NBC uniforms for being humble yet stylish. Rollo isn’t sure what to make of the comment (his face is blank) but he thanks Vil anyway.

Being a celebrity, Vil turns heads during his city tour. Rollo frowns in disapproval as fans swarm him, regarding Vil as a diva that promotes the sin of overconsumption. It doesn’t help his opinion that Vil often presents in an extravagant manner, full face of makeup, high heels, and all. It’s too much for the man to handle without his handkerchief.

Vil demonstrates an interest in the City of Flowers’ flora, just like Jade does. He’d love to preserve some for potions and his homemade cosmetics, but alas! They wouldn’t last the trip back. He’ll settle for other items: grape infused skincare and prank handkerchiefs—the latter, a bit juvenile, he confesses, but they’d make for excellent props for his Film Research Club.

When disaster strikes, Vil’s ready for action. His elegant, lithe form allows him to tuck and roll out of narrow scrapes with the flowers (all that work he does for doing his own stunts pays off here).

He can’t help but scoff at the irony of Rollo’s predicament. It’s a cruel twist of fate, but he cannot overlook Rollo’s actions. “You stand before a burning city and still call yourself its savior? Nothing could be so sad as a villain who has deluded himself into believing he is a hero. You’re rather full of yourself, aren’t you?”

Leona

Leona doesn’t care for kissing up to others, but he’ll do the bare minimum of greeting Rollo in his “royal persona” before going back to his usual rougher, less polished attitude. He has no one to impress, nor does he care enough to (even with Vil and Rollo chiding him).

He languidly strolls through the halls of NBC as if he owns the place. When his eyes pass over the mob students, they seem to straighten, standing at attention.

Leona doesn’t seem all that thrilled to see the gargoyles around. He gets this scowl on his face and mutters something about how they remind him of a certain lizard who won’t shut up about them. “Lizards, yes,” Rollo mysteriously agrees. “Such despicable, vile creatures.” Leona eyes him—sure to keep that in mind.

He susses out Rollo. Leona has a keen sense for ill intent and stays wary. He might not know what specifically drives Rollo, but he’ll at least as a sneaking suspicion like, "oh, [Rollo] is putting on airs/this isn't his 'true self'," etc.

His heart isn’t in the tour. Leona’s already familiar with the history and culture here thanks to his tutors. As Trein lectures, he’s yawning and thinking about being anywhere but here. Still, Leona doesn’t miss a beat when Trein surprises him with a verbal pop quiz. Sharp as a tack, he responds with a correct answer and a smirk.

He finds some Bibles ancient texts to read later. They came on a strong recommendation from Rollo, who says he and the other NBC students read and recite from it on Sunday mornings. “This had better be good,” Leona grumbles.

The local goats really REALLY like Leona for some reason. They gather at his knees, forming a weird fluffy fortress around him. He growls and tries to shoo them off (their horns are too Malleus-like for his liking), but they keep bleating and bothering him throughout the day. A goat comes to his rescue from the crimson flowers/fire lotuses, just like the legends of foretold—

His strong magic won't do him any good when the flowers reveal themselves. It's a good thing he's got physical strength and flight abilities too, he'll distract the flowers while the others go on ahead! (He'll insist the others will only "weigh him down" to save his pride.)

At the ball, Leona isn't one to mingle. He stands off to the sides, in the shade of the pillars, watching the others dance while he mulls over his power, Rollo's power, that burden of powerful magic they must bear, the scars left from their pasts. "Hmph, how useless," Leona thinks. Struggling against a fate set in stone... He knows that story all too well, and where that story will end: in ruin.

Floyd

Does and says what he wants when he wants, not caring how much Rollo is glaring at him. “Mm? You got a problem with me? Stop hiding behind your handkerchief and say it to my face then.” Floyd’s had too much experience with Jade and Azul’s two-facedness to be patient with Rollo’s bullshit.

Bored with all the historical info being dumped on him (his interest actually flits in and out at very inconvenient times). He sometimes glances away, changes the topic, or runs up to stalls and touches things. Basically, annoying Rollo the entire time.

Buys a bunch of random stuff, whatever catches his interest. Floyd loves the handkerchiefs and their prank potential (he'll startle Azul with them!), and the glass mobiles remind him of all the treasures he collects from shipwrecks back home.

He also gets a bunch of snacks to chomp on as he walks along and peeks at the vendors' wares. Floyd scarcely picks up after himself though, so that leaves Rollo to grumpily follow and pick up the wrappers.

I'm sure he'll come up with some nickname for Rollo (which will annoy him), but I'm not too familiar with marine life so you'll have to do the imagining for a suitable nickname for me lol. Maybe some kind of a jellyfish (since it would resemble the shape of his hat and has stingers despite how demure it looks).

Floyd is eager to fight the flowers once they sprout up. He's never tried punching plants before, but now is as good of a time to try as any! (He has to have a partner that keeps him under control or can compensate for his recklessness, or else he'll just indiscriminately fire off magic...)

When the conflict is all said and done, Floyd is totally chill with having a blast at the party. Rollo's trauma? Who cares? Now's the time to dance and have fun...! Floyd might even pull Rollo in for a dance during the ball, much to the latter's chagrin.

Ace

Riddle gave him a good, long lecture before Ace is allowed to go off to NBC. He gives a perky enough of a self-introduction, but can't maintain that squeaky clean student facade all the way. (Ace makes it clear among his peers that he's excited about this trip only because he can skip his regular classes and party at the masquerade.)

He's not all too thrilled about Rollo. A lot of his demeanor reminds Ace of Riddle (but if Riddle were much more emotionally repressed). "He's gotta unclench his ass and learn to have some fun for once!" Well, whatever, Ace thinks--all he'll do is just play the part of a good little boy, and as soon as Rollo looks the other way, Ace will let his mischief loose! (Like with Floyd, Rollo feels the need to keep Ace in line.)

When Trein starts giving the verbal pop quizzes, Ace zones out and pays zero attention.

He takes pictures of all the cool stuff he's experiencing to share later with the students not picked to go (ie to rub it in their faces). "Man, you guys are missing out~ Sucks to suck, I guess!"

Ace buys a souvenir but if you ask him who it's for, he'll get defensive and claim it's "definitely not for Deuce."

Ace likes to show off his magic to the townsfolk, though his level isn't that proficient yet. Making little fireworks is easy and gets eyes to light up though, so that's what he provides to liven things up! Rollo scolds him and tells him to "put it away", but Ace only rolls his eyes and hypes up the gathering crowd more.

When you need a verbal smack-down or a call-out, Ace is your guy. He's the first to point out Rollo's hypocrisy, and he does so loud and proud. "Rollo-senpai's a mage too, right? Releasing these flowers on the world means he'll have his magic taken too. Does he really hate himself this much...? Yeah, well, he's about to hate himself a whole lot more once he loses to us!"

When the situation seems dire, it's Ace kicking people into gear. He doesn't encourage them, but rather irritates them so much it grants them the strength to keep fighting just so they can live long enough to get their revenge on Ace.

He calls Rollo out to his face too--there, atop the bell tower, Ace confronts him, throwing accusation after accusation. His pointed words infuriate Rollo, who is still in denial about the true motivations behind his actions. "Admit it," Ace tells him, "you're doing this for yourself. Not for your brother, not for anyone else. It's just you projecting to stomp out your own guilt."

Being a first-year student, his magic is clumsy. Rollo easily overpowers him--but it's okay! Ace doesn't fight will the full force of his magic, instead relying on simple diversions with light, sound, and sleights of hand to distract Rollo.

It's Ace who suggests hiding the truth of Rollo's actions when they've defeated him. "How else is he gonna learn? He should reflect on his actions by himself, cuz 'sorry' alone isn't gonna cut it."

Ace wants that masquerade party to go on, to which Rollo reluctantly obliges. (According to Ace, "Losers don't get the right to say no to the winner's demands!") Thanks to him, the party's on, and he's going to enjoy every last second of it.

Ortho

... Couldn't Ortho just lifehack the situation and save everyone the struggle of trekking up the bell tower by just flying up there and sniping Rollo with a laser beam????? I guess let's just say that the fire lotuses/crimson lotuses drained the technomantic energy he runs on and thus limits his capabilities. Either that, or maybe the Masquerade Gear he changed into isn't equipped with strong combat functions.

Idia begs Ortho not to go and socialize because "it'll turn you into a normie", but Ortho's so eager to go to this symposium! It's a great chance to exchange knowledge with fellow mages. He promises his big bro he'll be extra careful and will record all the cool new sights so Idia can vicariously experience them through him.

Rollo's confused as to what Ortho is--he's certainly not living, is he? There's a part of Rollo that is disgusted and appalled at the inorganic nature of Ortho. He's an artificial being, an affront to nature, proof of humans playing god.

Even so, there is an odd atmosphere around Rollo, a hesitant curiosity. He's oftentimes spotted eyeing Ortho or extending a helpful hand to him in particular, though he winces at the child's touch, as if Ortho is diseased.

He nabs some of those intricately detailed wood carvings for his brother. Rollo asks him why those caught his attention, and when Ortho mentions Idia, Rollo's eyes darken with quiet understanding.

As promised, Ortho goes around filming everything. It's so different than looking up facts about the City of Flowers online! Ortho senses Rollo following at a distance--almost like a guardian, trying to make sure he stays out of trouble.

Rollo never thought he would experience guilt--but the moment the flowers come alive with fire, he feels it when he sees Ortho surrounded by the lotuses. The red spilling over his small form... it gives him traumatic flashbacks to the origin of his hatred for magic. But his will is strong, and Rollo pushes down the bile rising in his throat and continues with his plan.

With his magical reserves down, it's hard for Ortho to fly, or to move much at all. He's conserving his strength for the final battle as he drags himself up the stairs. When his peers ask if he wants to rest, he frantically denies it. "We need to hurry," Ortho insists. "We must save Twisted Wonderland, the city... and Rollo Flamme-san himself!!"

He sees a lot of Idia in Rollo, and it's perhaps this perception that drives Ortho so hard to stop Rollo before it's too late. Ortho has lived through grief, has seen how it can twist someone beyond recognition and set them on a path of destruction. Not again. Never again. He won't allow for it.

There's not much "juice" left in Ortho by the time they make it to the top of the bell tower. He knows he can't haphazardly fire a laser beam and call it a day, so he'll instead use fake tears (knowing that Rollo has a soft spot for him). Putting his acting chops to some use, Ortho pretends to sacrifice himself to get Rollo to lower his guard, allowing his two less magically inclined allies to get the jump on him.

After the battle, Ortho still can't help but empathize with Rollo. Unlike Idia, Rollo didn't have people there for him in his time of need. Ortho bashfully offers emotional support and invites him to hang out with him and Idia ("Maybe you and my nii-san can be friends? I can pass along his contact info to you!"). Rollo refuses--but that door is always open for him.

Kalim

I FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT KALIM WOULD BE THE HERO OF THIS STORY AND NO ONE CAN TELL ME OTHERWISE

His extroversion is Rollo’s kryptonite. Kalim just bombards him with smiles and chatter, it bears Rollo’s patience thin quite rapidly. He basically has his handkerchief out at all times trying to covert his disgusted frown.

Kalim’s super into exploring the town!! He stops by all the stalls to stock up on tons of gifts for his dorm members back home. (Rollo is appalled by his extravagance.)

Big fan of the festivities too; he grabs Rollo and everyone else by the hand, encouraging them to join him in a big group dance. (Think of the town dancing scene from Tangled!!) It’s hard not to grin and clap along to the good vibes he brings!

When all hell breaks loose, Kalim’s still the one to beg everyone else to give Rollo a chance, to hear him out. (They all think he’s INSANE for asking this.)

He’s absolutely heartbroken to learn about the fate of Rollo’s younger brother. As an older brother himself and someone who has been on the receiving end of many assassination attempts, Kalim can’t imagine losing one of his own siblings to Death’s cold grip. Snot dribbling out of his nose, tears streaming his face, he’ll insist that Rollo’s about to make the biggest mistake of his life. They have to stop him.

When Ace, Ortho, and him arrive atop the bell tower, they’re all shocked that Kalim takes the initiative. Still sobbing, he calls out to Rollo, begging him to see reason, letting him know that he understands how he feels. Rollo, of course, doesn’t listen and only becomes increasingly angry.

A unique use of Kalim’s UM! 👀 Oasis Maker summons a ton of water at once and seems to have a large AOE. I wonder if this could confuse or temporarily delay the crimson flowers???? Because the water would technically be magic, right? Except it’s everywhere (and pretty evenly distributed). It could also wash away the magic traces of other mages, so the flowers wouldn’t know which direction to go. Oasis Maker is also a thematic opposite to Rollo’s fire, a perfect visual representation of fiery hate versus purifying, cooling love.

DBHLFADYUVAFP9A9 KALIM JUST. TACKLING ROLLO IN A TIGHT HUG AND ROLLO NOT KNOWING HOW TO REACT... IN THE RAIN... DO YOU SEE THE VISION.

Kalim’s also the one to suggest forgiveness and giving Rollo a second chance after his defeat. Ace is super against it and wants to blab about his misdeeds to the world, but Kalim manages to convince him to keep it under wraps through sheer charisma alone.

At the masquerade, Kalim approaches Rollo and offers to be his friend. Though Rollo briskly refuses, Kalim won’t give up! Kalim tells him that he has a friend back home (Jamil) that hates him, so Kalim’s gonna work hard every day to be someone worthy of his friendship. So… he’ll do the same for Rollo too!!

Stage in Playful Land:

Silver

Silver's probably one of those people who hears about Playful Land and comes along to help protect his liege and peers.

Somehow dense enough to think that Fellow and Gidel AREN'T suspicious (when they clearly are????). He just kind of tilts his head to one side and smiles, saying that these two seem really friendly.

At first he thinks the park is a little odd because there aren’t any wild animals—not even birds—there. But he soon forgets his worries and is caught up in the magic of the amusement park. Silver thinks of it like an extensive obstacle course for his training! He’s especially interested in tests of strength (he and Sebek got competitive about some of those games).

Thinks the park's mascots are cute. Picks up a souvenir that features them (maybe a keychain or plush toy) for Lilia and Malleus.

Not much for performing. Silver's facial expressions are stiff and he can come off as scary without meaning to--but on that stage, he comes alive and all his muscles move in perfect unison to execute a dance. How invigorating...!

Gets puppet’d for falling asleep in an area he shouldn't be loitering in? Or maybe he leaps in the way to protect someone else. He can’t help it!! Gallantly shouts at the others to run and leave him behind—what a noble sacrifice!

Tries to talk some sense into Fellow. The only one who gives him the benefit of the doubt and sees the good in him.

He commends Fellow for ultimately "making the right decision" and freeing everyone at the end. Tells them he hopes they'll meet again someday, and he's eager to hear about the success of his school.

Epel

Peak of his rebellious kid phase. Decides to sneak out just to stick it to his dorm leader (who nagged him very recently for something). Does not realize Rook followed him all the way to the pier until Rook greets him.

Completely fooled by Fellow's friendliness. Epel's used to this kind of attitude back home in Harveston. Because the community is so small, everyone knows everyone and they're pretty closely knit. He figures Fellow and Gidel are the same way!

Totally hype to take everything in! Makes everything a competition (and unfortunately gets smoked by his peers in most of them). Drowns his sorrows by eating tons of the apple (core) flavored foods offered in the park.

Really put off by the invite on the stage. He's reminded of when Vil voluntold him to perform for VDC/SDC. Tries to weasel out of it, but Fellow won't be having any of that! Epel's suddenly filled with a light heartedness and fond memories of his month-long training with friends. He lets his instincts take over and relives those times on the grand stage!

LHFLIDFPIEIFEQFQEFJA I THINK IT WOULD BE FUNNY YET SUPER STUPID IF EPEL GOT PUPPET'D FOR EXCESSIVE PROFANITY... and he continues to swear after he's been caught by the magic. This is a family friendly PG clean place, Epel 😤

How dumb would it be if Fellow told the caged boys stories about his travels while they waited for the others to be captured and as he's listening to these stories EPEL REALIZES FELLOW AND GIDEL ONCE STOLE CROPS TO EAT FROM HIS FAMILY... Boy starts hooting and hollering all over again.

Joins Deuce in stomping around the park and bashing it up. They're a real pair of delinquents... Maybe pops a squat and asks Deuce to take a "cool pic" of him posed by some rubble.

Tells Fellow that folks might be more willin' to help him and Gidel out if they were more honest with their intentions. Epel's not entirely sure if his words got through to him though...

Ruggie

He heard the word "free" and he was instantly in. Leona-san's been working his tail off lately, a hyena needs a break every once in a while! Who cares how shady the offer is? Free is FREE, isn't it? He'll worry about the details later.

Pals around with Fellow and Gidel, talking about their odd jobs and old bosses. They get along swimmingly (which gives everyone else Bad Vibes).

Ruggie thinks the park is like paradise! All you can eat food? And for free? No work, all play?? Cool! He runs around collecting freebies, stuffing his face, and prowling around at the game booths racking up prizes. He plans to resell all of this stuff at a mark-up once he gets out of the park!

He's not all that eager to get on the stage (if he's gonna sing and dance, you better compensate him for it!). But what's this? Why's he suddenly feel eager to join in? Well, he supposes it seems like fun, so he might as well jam out too.

"Whaaat?! I knew this was too good to be true!" he laments when shit goes down. Ruggie holds out pretty well, but he eventually turns into a puppet cuz his greed got the better of him. Most likely stole a baton or something off of a fallen puppet to use as a makeshift weapon (which violates a park rule about stealing from staff).

Can't even be mad when he's captured and stuck listening to Fellow ramble about money. I mean, yeah, Ruggie doesn't WANT to be a puppet, but he sympathizes with Fellow's poverty and lack of education afforded to him in a "No, no... Let him cook" way.

Listening to Fellow vent reminds Ruggie of how lucky he is that he managed to find a meal ticket and a way out of the slums. He wonders if he'd have ended up like Fellow, had he not met Leona.

Really eager to bust up the park. It's not every day he gets to do this kind of thing!

When it comes time to part ways, Ruggie has a few words for Fellow! He doesn't think that his idea of a school is half bad--but he also tells Fellow to pick a less sketchy employer for his next gig.

Rook

Pulls up to watch out for Epel. He knows just how furious Vil would be if he found out their freshman wasn't getting his beauty sleep, so Rook has come to implore him to return to his chambers!! But--oh la la, he can't help but be intrigued at the idea of exploring uncharted territory, and so Rook comes along to Playful Land.

He keeps a close eye on Fellow while playing the part of an oblivious bystander. Rook does all of the right things: shaking Fellow's hand, chattering about how excited he is. The more Fellow underestimates him, the more taken by surprise he'll be when Rook unleashes the full brunt of his strength against him.

Nickname for Fellow might be "Roi du Renards" (King of Foxes) or maybe "Roi du La Scène" (King of the Stage). For Gidel, maybe "Monsieur Muet" (mute) or some equivalent like Calme (quiet).

I feel like Rook would love seeing the variety of attractions the park has! The stroll along the seaside has him rattling off about the majesty of the ocean deep. He would kill at a lot of the games but is most interested in the thrill rides and the pictures that come out afterwards. Rook marvels at everyone's unique expressions! (He looks pretty normal and is smiling wide in the pics.)

One of the first to hop onto that stage when the offer comes up. Rook has a flair for the dramatics and would love for nothing more than to be one of the performers he adores watching.

Becomes a puppet because he's one of the first to attack the gate or the staff (before everyone figures out that breaking the park rules results in the puppet transformation). What can he say? The huntsman is a man of action! Dramatically begs everyone to flee like how the huntsman in Snow White does.

Weirdly okay with (even excited about???) the cage. Don't ask why.

Laments having to destroy the dear park where they had such fun and made so many happy memories. Gleefully delights in the destruction too though.

Touched by hearing Fellow's hopes and dreams. Rook takes his hands, and, with sparkling eyes, encourages him to continue following them, to never give up!! (He barely seems bothered by the fact that Fellow almost sold them off.)

Riddle

Absolutely refuses to go at first and only shows up at the docks because he had a sneaking suspicion that some students would try to sneak out and defy his orders anyway. Fellow then enchants Riddle with Life is Fun and convinces him to try it out since "you broke curfew and came all this way anyway!"

Points out that Fellow is "a highly suspicious individual".

Riddle didn't have much in way of a traditional childhood; the most entertainment he had was doing crossword puzzles in his home. He's hesitant and wary of all the park's attractions and has to be persuaded to try them out.

He keeps worrying about skipping school, so Fellow has to really stack his spell on Riddle. Eventually he, too, gets lost in the sauce and thinks about how he, Trey, and Chenya would have liked this park as kids... and how he wants to have that childhood he missed out on. When he's caught laughing on the merry-go-round, teacups, or bumper cars, he denies it.

Needs that extra push to hop onto the stage. Riddle's stiff with his movements--he basically only knows how to do formal dances--but he gets the hang of it with some help from Fellow. Soon his troubles melt away and he doesn't recall what he was so worried about before.

Since Riddle closely observes the rules, the only way I can see him getting puppet'd is either the park rules and the Queen of Hearts' rules clash somehow and he cannot decide which to adhere to, OR he breaks a park rule he wasn't aware of. Maybe a hidden rule???

When he's caught, he pops off on an angry rant about how they all deserve this and he KNEW this was a bad idea, what will his mother think, etc. (Fellow has to put ear plugs in.)

Vents his anger by firing off tons of magic and destroying a lot of the park. (Has to be reminded to stop and take breaks or he'll exhaust himself.)

Before parting ways with Fellow, Riddle clears his throat and gives him a thorough lecture on the importance of having a clear conscience. Tries to be nice by wishing him luck on his educational endeavors--after all, Riddle is also someone who values a good education. Fellow scoffs at his advice and tells Riddle he's gotta get more street smart if he wants to survive in "the real world". (That's his tsundere way of saying "thanks for that, kid.")

Deuce

The idiot child who decides to sneak out cuz Ace told him they should. (Ace got caught early and didn't end up meeting them at the rendezvous point.)

A little dense, but his heart is in the right place. Thinks Fellow is a respectable adult that can be trusted because "do you really think people just go around and lie like that?!"

Loses himself pretty quickly in the park. He loves the adrenaline rush of the thrill rides. Competes with Epel to see who can handle the most consecutively without throwing up. Also takes some pictures to send to his mom!

Feels sort of bad for leaving Ace behind so he picks up a Playful Land deck of playing cards as a gift for him.

Even stiffer and more robotic than Riddle when he's ushered on stage. Continues to fumble and trip over himself, but Fellow assures him it's okay as long as he has fun!

Picks a fight with a puppet (he goes delinquent mode) and breaks it. Profusely apologizes to Riddle as he's hauled off.

Gets super into smashing up the park. At one point, he forgoes using magic and starts destroying stuff with a bat or a metal bar he picked up somewhere.

Not very good with parting words, but he manages to wish Fellow and Gidel luck. He sees a lot of himself in them and doesn't want them to stray from their path. Trying to summon the same vibes of the understanding policeman that helped him turn his life around, Deuce lets them know that it's not too late--they can change for the better.

Jamil

Absolutely no way Jamil would have gone had Fellow not cast his UM on him. He entices Jamil with a break from work and the wonder of the stage, preying on his secret desire to stand out and to have his talents noticed. His, not Kalim's. Jamil cannot explain to himself why he goes out that night, his feet carry him there as if acting on their own.

Of course he thinks Fellow is conspicuous. There's no way he isn't. But Jamil doesn't think of him as much of a threat with how simpering and pathetic he acts. What a fool, Jamil thinks, so servile, like a dog. True hater energy. Still, he plays along since Fellow is his ticket into the park and it's best to keep in the manager's good graces.

Jamil's used to lavish trips and amusement parks thanks to having to babysit and follow Kalim around whenever his parents rent entire venues out for him. Nothing surprises him anymore--though he does enjoy the food and tries to pick apart their recipes as he tastes them.

He ends up having to babysit some other students (mainly the first years) anyway. Jamil groans... even at Playful Land, there's no rest for him!!

Lives it up on stage. Forget Kalim, forget Vil--HE'S taking command of the spotlight and he's loving every second of it. Jamil throws his heart into his singing, his dancing. The audience's eyes are all on him, and it all serves to feed his starved ego.

Gets thrown off his game by a bug and accidentally damages park property. Shrieks as the bug crawls all over him and he’s unable to fight back once he’s petrified. (Fellow points and laughs at him as Jamil seethes.) Vows to kill Fellow dead in revenge.

Like Ruggie, Jamil comes from a place of understanding where Fellow and Gidel are coming from… Stuck in some lower social status, forced to suck up and be humble. He just doesn’t sympathize because they’ve cause a significant inconvenience to him. All bets are off now.

Shit talks Fellow for being slimy and underhanded while conveniently ignoring the fact that he, too, is slimy and underhanded.

Surprisingly very into venting through destroying the park. That deranged look of his appears as the man relishes in setting tent ablaze and decimating the local bug population. You feel like he’s five minutes away from an evil villain cackle.

Holds a grudge against Fellow for the bug-induced trauma he went through. Shakes his hand and sees him off, but swears if they cross paths again that he will end him. Has vicious and vengeful thoughts about Fellow's downfall but says good-bye with a neutral expression.

Sebek

(Loudly) insists he is too mature and has better things to worry about than having fun at a park. (He’s secretly very interested in it and gets goaded to attending thanks to being taunted by his fellow freshmen + learning that Silver is trying to protect them; Sebek doesn’t want them to outdo him!)

Constantly gives Fellow lip. It’s a real struggle for Fellow to keep a smile and an upbeat attitude when dealing with Sebek’s brazenness.

Checks in frequently with Malleus to ensure his liege is making the most of his park experience! Every time Sebek wins a game, he looks to Malleus for approval. Whenever he finds an interesting attraction or ride, he’ll excitedly tell Malleus about it. Cherishes the pictures he takes with his prince, keeps them safe for his Malleus shrine when he gets home.

Fanboys for Malleus to go up on stage and “show those pathetic humans what-for!” Sebek is humbled to be able to stand on it beside his young master—he’ll do what he can to support him and make his skill truly shine!

His anger for their actions surpasses any sympathy he might feel for them. A good education is something his grandfather highly values—and he of course would be devastated if he were unable to read and enjoy all of his favorite books. But Sebek isn’t in the business of fraternizing with those who deceive and besmirch his master’s good name! Have at them…!

Probably violates some park noise regulation or simply gets too rough beating down puppets. He bellows that the others better do a damn good job of protecting the young master in his absence! Nearly weeps when Malleus thanks him for his loyalty and service.

Gives Fellow (and the other puppets) an EARFUL. Fellow tells Gidel to slap tape over Sebek’s mouth to get him to shut the hell up. This is only mildly effective.

Applauds Malleus as he rains destruction down upon Playful Land. Competes with Silver to see who can cause more collateral damage.

Gives Fellow and Gidel a second earful before the two depart on their own travels. Sebek says he hopes they’ve learned the error of their ways and will repent! He doesn't believe in them, but at least knows they're annoying enough that they'll keep surviving out there.

Azul

Under ordinary circumstances, Azul would absolutely not consider accepting a free ticket (what if Fellow demands repayment?!) or a deal that seems too good to be true. But something about this Fellow man is agreeable—perhaps scammers call out to scammers. He figures it would be fine to investigate what methods this illusory theme park is employing.

Azul and Fellow have an unsettling air about them as they converse. They're both all smiles, but it feels like there's a dark tension hanging around the two. Even Gidel seems nervous and fidgets as the two older men talk business and entertainment.

This dude has a little writing pad out and is actively taking notes on the things he sees around the park. He's thinking about how these could translate into his own financial ventures. ("Are you seriously working at Playful Land?! What a studious scholar!" Fellow simpers. "But there's no need, really! Put your mind at ease! Kick up your feet! Relax!") Needs more of Fellow's UM to keep pliant.

Also keeps track of the games, foods, attractions, and rides he partakes in. That way, he can whip out his sheet at any time and quote the value he owes back to the park. Azul doesn't want to give back more than he was given!

Humbly says that he couldn't possibly get on the stage--but oh, if you insist! (He was humble bragging, his voice is amazing.) Not much in the way of dancing though, he prefers to stand to preform, as he has insecurities about being clumsy thanks to his childhood experience being bullied for his bulky tentacles.

... Probably gets caught by Fellow and gets his ticket torn up because Azul's not athletic. Resents that Fellow calls him a stuck up and out of shape brat, maybe if he didn't sit on his ass all day he'd be better at practical things; fires back by going, "ACTUALLY, I am quite accomplished, I assure you! I don't just sit around on my laurels and let my minions rake the money rake in, I EARN every thaumark I'm worth!" (Azul's soooo offended OTL)

His mouth still works, even if the rest of his body doesn't. Azul tries all kinds of tactics to try and get Fellow to let him free. Flattery, bargaining, threats, asking if he can speak with his boss, etc.

Fellow seems to have a bone to pick with Azul on account of Azul being a successful guy from a successful family (Azul mentions his successful mom and dad willing to pay for his release). He never got any of that support when he was a kid, and Gidel never will, so Fellow's real bitter about it. He takes it out on Azul by kicking his cage and telling him to "shaddap" already.

Agonizes about being charged for any damages he incurs while tearing up Playful Land. Azul comes up with a contract on the spot and demands that Fellow sign it to free him of any liabilities before he joins in on destroying the park.

Azul begrudgingly wishes Fellow luck in his own endeavors--oh, and if he's ever in need of a small loan of a million thaumarks (with a frightening amount of interest), please feel free to reach out to him! He says it with a smile, but his intentions are far more malevolent.

Fellow laughs it off and says he and Gidel can do fine without a snot-nosed punk's help. As soon as he's out of sight, Azul turns to his classmates and huffs. "Well, I NEVER! Such a rude man could never hope to make it in the world."

Idia

Bro didn't want to go in the first place, he HATES crowded places full of outgoing people. Ortho guilt trips him into it, saying that "Nii-san needs to touch grass!!" Ortho even assures him that he'll come along too. So Idia shows up, but there's no Ortho there... turns out it was a trap to force him to socialize without his little brother's support!

He tries to keep his distance from the rest of the group and sneak back to Ignihyde, but Fellow unfortunately strolls right up to him, wraps a hand on his shoulder, and starts smooth talking. Idia freezes up and wonders if this is what shoujo protags feel like when sleazy guys come up to them on the street and try soliciting them for dates before the male lead (Silver lmao) steps in to help them out.

He feels a little more comfortable around Fellow when he's paired with Gidel. Something about their dynamic reminds Idia of himself and Ortho. At some point, Fellow mentions that though they're not technically related, he thinks of Gidel like his dear family. Idia finds himself nodding along to that sentiment, even smiling a little at that. "... Yeah. Family's family."

Drifts around like a ghost, not wanting to get involved in anything. The others boys have to drag him onto the rides (Idia leaves them practically foaming at the mouth and on the brink of death).

Loves the arcade area. He gets the chance to show off his mad gamer skills and clears the shelves of all their prizes. Excited to have earned some cool merch and to be able to have something to share with Ortho when he gets back.

WANTS TO PERISH ON THE SPOT when he's invited up on stage. Fellow has to drag him there kicking and screaming. zilfbdifbabia Funnily enough, I feel like Idia's panic and gloominess would override Fellow's UM but he gets peer pressured into performing anyway... so he hangs out in the corner like a banshee and half-heartedly mumbles the song lyrics and kicks at the ground to "dance".

When things start taking a turn for the worse, Idia tries to cope with his anxiety by relating their situation to some of the classic horror films he has seen. Maybe he uses some of that knowledge to advise their next moves? “N-Normally I wouldn’t want to stick with you normies, but splitting up’s always the wrong move in the horror movies…”, “Wh-What’s next?! Is Fellow-shi going to chase us down with a chainsaw?!”, etc.

His stupid blue fiery hair always gives them away in the dark 😭 The boys force Idia to hood up to avoid being a beacon.

Probably also gets caught because he’s out of shape and gets his ticket torn up. Rages when he turns into a puppet, saying that no one EVER reads the terms of service, so why punish them for it?! (Azul starts to argue with Idia on this.)

Proceeds to whine about all the games, manga, and anime he won’t be able to finish. Gidel seems curious about what those are, but Fellow keeps him away from Idia.

Fellow hates to admit it, but he feels a little sorry for Idia when he mentions not being able to ever see his little brother again. He pulls up a crate and sits on it, listening to Idia talk about this Ortho kid.

Ironically, it’s Idia that starts to make him reconsider his own conscience—but ultimately, the need for money has Fellow turning away and steeling his heart. He has to look out for number 1, he has to do this for his own little brother.

Is weirdly gleeful about the park’s destruction. Happily firing laser beams off with his little skull device. (It’s like one of his shooter games!) Wishes Ortho was here to participate.

Declares that this is the last straw for him once the ordeal is over. Idia claims he is NEVER stepping foot outside of his room again, terrible things always happen when he does!!

Fellow laughs at him and tells Idia to take life in stride. Closing those doors to opportunity might cost him in the long run! Idia shoots him a glare. “Y-You’re the last person I wanna hear that from!!”

Malleus

So pumped that he actually got invited to go somewhere. Doesn't care how sketchy it is (he can easily decimate any troubles), he's so hype about just the idea of being included in a gathering.

A little oblivious to Fellow’s shadiness. He greets the man cordially and thanks him again for the invite with all the dignity and grace of a royal. Asks many questions of Fellow as well; Malleus wants to know more about the history and the magical construction of the park!

He experiences many of his firsts at Playful Land but has a hard time wrapping his mind around some concepts. Why would you ride a ferris wheel when he can fly up and see the entire park that way? Do humans really get a thrill from getting splashed with water as they descend on roller coasters...? Here, he can summon a pillar of water and drench you right now. Oh, the game is to knock the pyramid of bottles over? He can easily do it with a blast of magic.

Apples are a common food and flavor in the park? Malleus thinks they taste better roasted. Let him demonstrate, he'll use his fire breath to--

For some reason, Malleus is really into the mascot characters of the park. He doesn't think they're cute or anything "normal" like that; he just has this weird respect for them as the "guardians" of Playful Land. They're basically gargoyles in his mind. Gets super invested in this game of pointing out all the "hidden foxes" he spots.

Malleus has attended balls and other formal gatherings before, but he has never been in a show. Everything there shines, and then there's him... a dark, foreboding presence sucking up all the light on the stage. Though he moves with elegance and joins in on the singing, he strikes terror and sends shivers down the audience members' spines. (Fellow quickly ushers him off.)

Explodes when he learns he has been tricked. (Let's uh... assume they're in a wide-open area when his lightning strikes out of anger, because otherwise he'd for sure take down some attractions and would instantly get puppet'd; let's also assume the park's magic is somehow strong enough to resist his own magic.) Malleus is determined to storm right up to Fellow and give him a piece of his mind!!

After Idia and Azul are captured, it's down to only him and the sly fox that started this all--and it's not even a competition. Fellow poses no threat, Malleus takes him down without even batting an eye. I can see Fellow pretending to beg for mercy and grovel, hoping to trick Malleus into lowering his guard so he can spring a last-ditch trap on him, but it doesn't work since Malleus is so OP.

I like to imagine there's a scene where Malleus has Fellow in tears when he realizes the true disparity between this FAIRY PRINCE and him, the haves and the have-nots. And Malleus is about to blast him, but holds off after seeing Fellow being a mess Not out of actual sympathy, but out of a sense of noblesse oblige (a duty that the elite have to help the less fortunate). Fellow's probably really bitter about it too, seeing it as Malleus looking down on him and pitying him.

"Perhaps life has chosen to be unkind to you. However, that does not preclude me from pardoning you." (Sebek shouts something about how Fellow should be grateful for his liege's magnanimity!) "Rise, Honest. You will live to see another day--but be certain that you make that day an honorable one for yourself and your ward, lest you incur the full extent of my wrath."

In a climactic moment, Malleus flies high above Playful Land and lets loose a flurry of magical explosions. It's a magical way to close out the closing of the park. Rides collapsing into rubble, fireworks in the sky. A performance worthy of a standing ovation (if you ignore his classmates screaming as they bolt for the exit before the falling buildings land on them).

While his classmates are clamoring to get back to NRC, Malleus finds himself glancing back at Fellow and Gidel, who are packing it up. He approaches them (Fellow jolts back) and politely wishes them safe travels--a small blessing. "And may all of your dreams come true," Malleus adds (ominously).

It might be interesting to see Malleus question the resource disparity in his own country at the end?? Fellow wasn't able to study and be a mage because he was born in the wrong social standing, so he had to resort to unsavory action to scrape by. This would sort of parallel what we eventually see in book 7 (ie the human invaders taking resources from the fae) and could lend him a unique perspective + give him a lot of things to consider for when he will eventually ascend to his throne. What about his citizens with little or no magic? The destitute? How will he, as king, ensure that his people have what they need to be happy and fulfilled, so that no one ends up like Fellow?

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bambi-kinos · 3 days ago

Note

Thank you so much for replying to my ask! Sorry for the long reply back but I just love discussing these two.

Yes the rock and roll lifestyle and Paul’s infamous cheating before Linda has me very sceptical about him being 100% faithful to Linda too. That Jane Asher story is insane! The idea of Wings being a way to keep an eye on it is very interesting and not implausible at all. However in my opinion, Linda gives me the impression of someone with a strong sense of self, who would decide to walk instead of being disrespected in that way.

I also find it strange that decades and decades on, no one has said anything other than Paul being absolutely devoted to Linda. Not even anonymously, someone who doesn’t like Paul could seriously hurt his reputation spilling that information, not to mention the potential money, fame from it ect. This goes hand in hand with having a sexual relationship with John. I mean, surely they couldn’t have hidden it from everyone. Some people must of known, and not just an inner circle of loyal friends. Take tour managers or hotel staff for example.

So why do you think nothing has come out all these years later?

What comes to mind is the phone call Paul had with a biographer very soon after John’s death (I’m sorry I’ve forgotten his exact name) where he secretly recorded all he said and later published it. (Ouch!) Paul’s completely baffled at Yoko’s statement that no one had hurt John more than Paul had. (Said by John himself)

If they had a sexual, emotionally intense relationship, wouldn’t Paul have known that it was this John was referring too? He comes across as very smart, surely he could have put the dots together? His bewilderment seems completely sincere, not a pr trick. What’s your opinion?

I honestly go back and forth on this because I can see a relationship between those two being way more than just platonic. On and off hook ups in the 70s amongst the angst could also explain John’s sporadic comments about Paul throughout this decade. One day praising him, the other cursing him. Both parties not being brave enough (and a whole host of other factors) to not commit or acknowledge what was going on fully would have been very confusing to say the least.

But I still can’t get my head around the points I made earlier that counter this argument. Would love to hear your take on things!

EXTREMELY based ask anon, your mind is very sharp and I love it!

okayyyy there's a lot here so let's take it bit by bit

However in my opinion, Linda gives me the impression of someone with a strong sense of self, who would decide to walk instead of being disrespected in that way.

If we're anywhere close to the ballpark then Linda nearly called off the wedding when Paul told her about him and John. But then after that, she would chaperone Paul when he went to see John and hang out with him like when they went to LA. It's hard to say what Linda would or wouldn't stand for IMO because she saw the real Paul, all of him, and stuck that out for over twenty years.

I don't think that Linda would be okay with Paul cheating on her necessarily but I wouldn't write off her pretending not to see when he was sneaking out under her nose. It's not the same thing as having an open relationship but she and Paul had agreed to try for Mary sometime in 1968 before she knew about him and John and witnessed the messy break up. She doesn't strike me as the vindictive type so I wonder if knowing she was pregnant and wanting her kid to know who her father was played any role in her decision. And Linda purportedly didn't like the idea of getting married again according to a quote floating around here -- Paul had to convince her it was a good idea, not the other way around. There's reason to believe that Linda may have been happy just being a common law couple or whatever the UK's equivalent is and that Paul insisted on getting married.

I'm not saying definitively one way or another, Linda is much more opaque than Paul. But I'm hesitant to say that she wouldn't tolerate cheating or she wouldn't look the other way on it, because why else did she let Paul visit John so much otherwise? She knew what was going on.

Just something to think about I guess.

So why do you think nothing has come out all these years later?

The biggest reason is that The Beatles worked very hard as a unit to cover up their infidelities. Paul was two paternity accusations lodged against him, one was the German girl and the other was Liverpool girl. Blood tests proved that both of these paternity claims were false (and Anita later admitted that she had a second boyfriend concurrent to Paul at the time, she just didn't think he was actually the dad until her son spilled the beans that Paul's paternity test proved false.) Despite these two paternity suits being lodged against Paul, he still paid the girls hush money through Brian. There's another story of a paternity claim being lodged against John that Brian paid to go away. The hookers they engaged with in the hotels were also paid for their time and to not launch any paternity suits against The Beatles. And so on.

The most encompassing answer is simply that Paul and the other Beatles paid off their babymamas AND that they have lots of legal representation on their side to make offers that can't be refused. I have long thought that the sudden muzzling of Heather Mills was the result of a super injunction, a feature of British law where a person with enough money and influence can forcibly shut someone up. A super injunction is, to put it mildly, a massive pain in the ass to obtain yet Paul is well positioned to have used one to make her shut her mouth and stop libeling him in the press. If Paul is ruthless enough to use something like that against his ex wife and mother to his child then he is absolutely willing to turn it on lays from the 1960s and 1970s. Most of the time I would bet he does not have to; we all have a price and for a sufficient amount of money, I wouldn't bother Paul with a paternity suit either.

Then there's just love and personal loyalty. The Beatles inspire incredible loyalty in their fans and their hook ups. Peggy Lipton went completely insane for Paul after meeting him only a handful of times including showing up at his hotel in a swimsuit hoping to be taken on Paul's Dirty Weekend with Linda. Now imagine that loyalty in a 19 year old girl who hooked up with Paul during 1966. Why would she say shit to anyone about having sex with Paul or getting pregnant by him? She would absolutely feel inspired to protect him. I think this would be just as true in 1976, the loyalty that the boys inspired in their fans is remarkable.

And think about it: if you had slept with one of the Beatles, would you out him to anyone? Or would you keep it a secret? Think carefully about it. By outing him, you are also outing yourself. Especially if Paul was married at the time. Do you want to admit you're complicit in Paul McCartney's adultery? That sounds like a very unpleasant prospect to me and besides, you want to keep a little piece of him to yourself.

Tour managers and hotel staff likely suspected something but it was truly a whirlwind for them too and I think a lot of them just second guess what they know. Homosexual activity was completely unthinkable and virtually unknown in the 60s and 70s. The only people who would truly know is the housekeeping staff. They would see the telltale signs of who slept where and what they were doing; those room manifests don't tell us shit because we can be sure that the boys swapped beds and rooms all the time depending on what they wanted. For John and Paul especially, I imagine there was a lot of wandering in the night and seeking each other out.

Take that story of Ringo disappearing during the 1964 tour to go on a joyride with a police man with Paul waking up and alerting Mal and Neil that he was gone. Why was Paul awake in the night? Why didn't he just go ask John and George where Ringo was first thing? Surely if your third band member goes missing your first instinct would be to ask the other two if they've seen him but instead Paul, for some reason, seems to have known immediately that Ringo was not with John and George in their hotel room and promptly tattled to the roadies. This is despite the room set up which was supposed to be Paul/Ringo and George/John. Hm!

Only housekeeping would know the truth of the situation and those men and women are dead or lost in the crowd. However even then we don't have reason to think they had proof: John and Paul being intimate would only leave behind the remains of...sex. And the truth is that The Beatles liked having sex with girls while they were in the same room together, including switching. What reason was there to think that it was just two guys boning instead of two guys and two girls?

What I'm driving at is that tour managers and hotel staff and housekeeping servicewomen had a lot of circumstantial evidence but unless they caught John and Paul in the act, then they had no reason to understand what they were seeing. Anyone who did catch them would have been paid off with the brown paper bag money Brian picked up from the bootleg merch vendors that sold fanmerch outside their concerts. And if that failed then yes legal action would have been launched through Capitol's legal arm because Capitol had plenty of superstars before The Beatles that had to be managed. They knew the drill, they weren't angels. Managing sex addicts and homosexual activity was business as usual for a suit even in 1964. They wouldn't want to scuttle that secret either because if Paul throws a fit and buys out his song catalogue then it's good night Felicia.

So in between those three things -- personal loyalty, bribes, and the threat of legal action especially since Paul has rich boy privileges -- no one is saying shit. Not any of the groupies, none of the women Paul was probably hanging out with while married, no one who ever caught him with John. It's just not worth it.

Hunter Davies. The phone call with Hunter Davies is very interesting because he was someone Paul knew...but otoh he's still a reporter. Paul knows that. Hearing more about the Lennon McCartney feud soon after John's death was a hot story so could Paul reasonably assume that Hunter would write up the story.

I posit that Paul, in an act of true cynicism and spite towards Yoko, deliberately leaked some of his issues with John in order to spit in Yoko's eye. Especially with that pointed line about how he knows things about John that Yoko never knew...and that he won't publish them until after she is dead. You want to talk about ouch?!

I think that Paul is being genuine when he's confused about how he could have hurt John which makes me think @menlove is right and that India may have been a nothingburger or didn't feature Paul getting cold feet about John.

There are a couple of candidates for "John said no one hurt him like Paul did." We'll probably never know what they are but these are my personal options:

John asked for a relationship with Paul in India; Paul did something John interpreted as a rejection especially in light of Paul self destructing and John going on a multi-day bender when he got home.

Paul suddenly bringing Linda into the limo during the New York City trip to promote Apple. John seems genuinely baffled and confused about this with the "and next thing I know she's married to him" line. It was completely out of left field and John was caught by surprise.

Paul getting the drop on John with regards to announcing the Beatles break up. John expressed bitterness about this (because it was a ploy to force Paul to stay with him, Paul wasn't actually supposed to follow through with it) because it humiliated him publicly.

John was still hung up on the Family Way score and was destroyed by that and by Paul going "fuck it we'll do it live" and recording so much stuff solo for the White Album.

You may have spotted a problem with this already: there are multiple instances where Paul could have profoundly hurt John that would linger in John's memory. How can you possibly choose just one?

What if it was all of these and that eventually the hurt and abandonment mounted and John couldn't take it anymore?

Ultimately though I think Paul is/was confused and angry because the narrative was all about how Paul hurt John, and nothing about how John hurt Paul, another thing Paul brought up with Hunter during the interview. If John was pissy about Paul announcing the break up first, then why was no attention paid to John announcing "I want a divorce"? Why is it so important to sweep John being a dickhead under the rug? I think that's what had Paul so confused and pissed off, to the point that he couldn't really pinpoint one single thing that could have hurt John. 'Are you serious, I hurt him when he's the one who abandoned me multiple times through out our relationship and never apologized for any of it?' That would piss me off monumentally if I were Paul, I'd deny all knowledge of hurting John too since he refused to own up to hurting Paul in the first place.

That's pretty much it. Keeping in mind that Yoko kept John hooked on drugs to keep him from making up with Paul as well.

I think the confusion and frustration Paul expressed/expresses is a byproduct of the fog of war. He's too close to the subject matter, he can't figure it out because he can't see the big picture.

#mclennon #john lennon #paul mccartney #beatles meta #my meta #talktalktalk #long post

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zigrethsnotebook · 2 days ago

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Heyo! I have an ask do you think Stanley would like chubby girls? maybe write about it???🖤

Boy, oh boy. Does he ever... I will gladly write about it, thank you anon!!<3

Chubby Girl

Stan x Reader

words: 631

tags: sfw, suggestive

You stood at the cash register in the gift shop, ringing up the last customer for the day. As soon as they walked through the door you felt Stan's hands on your hip as he pressed himself against you from behind, resting his head on your shoulder.

"How did I ever land a hot babe like you?" He mumbled next to your ear. His eyes were closed as he enjoyed holding you like this. You chuckled lightly. "What are you talking about?" Stan hummed, letting his hands move up to your sides, tracing them up and down. You sighed, leaning back into him and enjoying his hands on you.

"Well, I watched you work and it took all my strength not to jump you on the spot. The way you move your body when you stock the shelves? The bit of belly poking out from under your shirt when you reach up? Oh, or your butt when you picked something up from the ground?"

He hummed and moved one of his hands from your side to his mouth to give your butt a chef's kiss. You laughed at him and then suddenly turned red as his words sank in. "Wait, you can see my belly when I reach for the higher shelves?" You subconsciously moved your arms to cover your stomach, insecurity over your weight gnawing at you.

Stan moved his hands on top of yours, intertwining your fingers. "Are you kidding me? That was the highlight of my day! There is nothing hotter than you showing off what's mine." He nuzzled his face into your neck and earned a chuckle from you, lifting some of your worries off your shoulders.

"Sorry, Stan. I guess I'm just not used to being seen as hot." You admitted to him. He knew how insecure you were about your weight and he absolutely loved telling you how much he loved your body. "I'll gladly help convince you otherwise." He purred into your ear, making you laugh again.

Stan let one of his hands wander from your stomach to under your shirt, the sudden contact making you gasp. "Stan!" You could basically hear the smirk in his voice. "What? I thought you wanted me to convince you."

He let his hand wander over your skin, tracing over every inch of skin, roll or fold he could reach without exposing you too much. You hummed, content and enjoying every second of his undivided attention.

Stan grabbed onto your stomach roll, squeezing it a little. You gasped again, frowning now. "Don't make fun of me." He let go of your belly. "I haven't said anything. And I would never." You shook your head, your past experiences getting the better of you. "Just don't."

Stan removed his hand from under your shirt and made you turn around and face him. You saw concern in his eyes as he saw your frown. "Why would you think I'd make fun of your belly? I love your belly!" He took your hands in his, unsure how to comfort you.

You looked to the side, unable to look him in the eyes. "Because-" You couldn't even say it, now realizing how illogical and unfair it was to think so badly of him. "I'm sorry. I don't know why I-" He cut you off with a hug.

"Just don't say stuff like that, doll. I love every bit of ya. And I mean it." You wrapped your arms around him as well. "Thank you, Stan." He held you like that for a few more moments before he let go.

"I mean, how could I hate any of this? No matter what I grab, everything feels like a tit." You laughed loudly, every ounce of insecurity annihilated by Stan's very pragmatic view on life.

#zigreth answers #gravity falls #gravity falls x reader #zigreth writes #stanley pines #stanley pines x reader #stan pines x reader

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rhiannonsknife · 2 days ago

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you are quite literally an angel sent down from heaven. i think i died and ascended all the way up to the pearly gates after reading your response

i know you mentioned this a little bit in your coworker!rhiannon drabble and i don't mean to be beating a dead horse but theres just something about teasing rhiannon while she's at work, especially if you're working with her, only a few feet away but impossibly out of reach

you keep sending her explicit messages, detailing every dirty thought that passes through your mind, and you relish in the way that her cheeks heat up the second she reads them. you also send her countless photos every time you go to the bathroom (or even sending a photo at your desk with your skirt lifted just enough for her to see your absolutely soaked panties) and you know from the way her eyes widen and her finger presses down on the image that she's saving every single one of them

coming over to her desk because she wants you to "help her with an email" after toying with her all day and she's whispering in your ear, telling (begging) you to stop being such a tease. of course, you "accidentally" brush a hand against her clothed cunt in response, enjoying the way she whines under her breath and glares at you with her bottom lip between her teeth

it eventually gets to be too much and she's beckoning you to come with her to the bathroom for a "feminine emergency", but in reality, you're getting down on your knees and pressing kisses to her dripping pussy

she's so close to cumming all over your face when you hear someone knock on the bathroom door and ask if you're alright in there. rhiannon looks down at you, wondering if you're going to stop, but you just give her a look and keep lapping at her cunt. she's desperately trying to croak out an answer in a way that doesn't give away that your tongue is inside of her, and all she manages is an "i'm fine!" before she's cumming all over your face, almost drawing blood with how hard she bites on her lip to stay quiet

and oh, she's not letting you off scott-free for all your teasing. she will be pulling out the strap the second she gets home and bringing you to more orgasms than you can keep count

-🪐

🪐 anon please don’t ever stop spoiling us with your genius thoughts. nsfw content. mdni.

i feel like office sex with rhiannon in general would be…something. in the beginning (before becoming a serial killer) she would not be as down to try, too worried about getting caught. but once she gains enough confidence?? suddenly, rhiannon is the one who regularly shoves you into the bathroom stall or starts feeling you up from behind when it’s just the two of you in the staff room…

but, anyway, once said confidence is established you make it your mission to tease her as much as anyhow possible!! you know you are rhiannon’s number one soft spot and you know exactly how to make good use of it…

right now, you’re on your knees before her, her skirt pushed up her thighs, her panties already stuffed in the pocket of your jeans (which is where you’ll be keeping them for the rest of the day).

it had started harmlessly enough. after waking up with her earlier this morning and making a point of entering the office separately to avoid any unnecessary and annoying commentary from one of your colleagues, you haven’t stopped thinking about her once. how could you when, the night prior, you’d spent hours in bed together? when you can still taste rhiannon on your tongue from how she’d been riding your face shamelessly?

so, obviously, you had to make your horniness her problem.

if you could, you’d literally send every single one of your useless coworkers out and ask rhiannon to eat you out right then and there, on top of your desk. but, since that was not an option, you had settled for the next best thing: texting her. every other minute, rhiannon’s phone went off. at first, she expected something work-related and her eyes went wide when she saw your message, telling her about how you couldn’t stop thinking about her in explicit detail.

and you didn’t leave it at that: you kept sending her messages, even used your bathroom breaks to send her pictures, too, pulling up your shirt or shoving your hand down your pants. you can see from your spot that rhiannon, despite her warning glares, looks at every single one of them and even saves them to her camera roll. once, you even called her desk phone from the bathroom, only to moan into the received or hold it to your own pussy, letting her hear how wet you are for her.

when she finally got up from her desk to beg tell you to stop torturing her already, you pushed it too far. or, at least, you’d pushed rhiannon over an edge that she must’ve been toying for a while at that point: as she pretended to point out errors in an email you’d written, she leaned over your shoulder from behind.

“i swear to god, baby, you need to-“ your hand pressing against her crotch shut her up. “quit” she gasped, her hips immediately rolling against the press of your fingers. rhiannon’s lashes fluttered and she sighed softly.

“bathroom” she had instructed once she finally gathered herself. “now”

and, who are you to deny her that?

and that’s, precisely, how you’d gotten yourself into your current position: kneeling before her, panties taken off and out of your way, mouth where it’s supposed to be: on rhiannon’s cunt. she’s dripping down your chin, at this point. your teasing must’ve really done it for her.

rhiannon is leaning back against the sink to balance her weight, one leg thrown over your shoulder, a hand buried in your hair. her head is tilted back a bit and she’s panting already, even though you haven’t done much yet. only mouthed at her pussy, licked broad strokes through her wetness, and pressed the tip of your tongue against her clit in a way that had her knees buckling. it’s been your teasing that got rhiannon to this point: wet and wanting. that’s all it takes for your girlfriend to be dripping down your chin.

you watch her when you start eating her out more purposefully; pushing your tongue deeper, applying more pressure in all the right places, watching the way rhiannon falls apart above you. she has to rest more of her weight back to avoid her knees giving out beneath herself right then and there and her breath comes in short pants.

“shit” she hisses, one hand running through her disheveled hair as the other pulls you closer. rhiannon shouldn’t want this. it shouldn’t turn her on to be eaten out in a place where all of your coworkers could hear if she’s not careful. you’ve locked the door, obviously, but that doesn’t mean the people outside wouldn’t be able to overhear her moans through the thin walls.

it’s a risk. a risk worth taking, because rhiannon tastes heavenly and looks her most beautiful as she’s shaking and visibly struggling with trying to be quiet. she’s rocking her hips, too, for an extra feel of your tongue lapping up her arousal. at home, in your bed, this would probably be a point where she’d be too frustrated with you. where she would toss you around and ride your face in order to get off. but that’s not happening here. (she will make up by laying you down, later, and fuck you with her strap until you’re a babbling mess, apologizing for teasing her like this in the first place…)

all rhiannon can do is lean back and take what you’re giving her as she tries to be quiet. her hand slams over her mouth once you bring your fingers up as well and push two of them into her while sucking on her clit harshly. she barely contains the whine, only trying to poorly cover it with an exaggerated clear of her throat just in case anyone is near the door.

you hope that there’s not: even as rhiannon tries to be quiet, her pussy certainly isn’t: you can hear how wet she is, as you pump your fingers in and out of her while your tongue flicks against her clit.

like this, it doesn’t take long until she’s close to cumming. you don’t have a lot of time so fortunately you know what it takes and what you have to do to make rhiannon cum quickly: you know where to put your mouth, where to bend your fingers, where to apply just the right amount of pressure. it’s not long until she starts getting tense and tighter around your fingers, walls fluttering.

it’s perfect, the way her body goes rigid in the pre-orgasmic bliss. you’re ready for her to stumble over the edge, already watching her eagerly. and then someone’s knocking on the door. you both flinch, instantly glaring at the other.

“rhiannon?” someone’s voice echoes. “are you alright in there sweet pea?”

rhiannon is still staring at you, panting: eyes wide, chest rising and falling rapidly. and then, she nods and you put your mouth back where you both want it. her eyes press shut tightly and she bites her palm as she musters up enough strength to speak without sounding like she’s currently getting fucked.

“uh-“ she rasps, eyes rolling back. “yeah, i’m alright. i’m alright. don’t worry lana!”

that’s all it takes. that, and another harsh suck on her clit. lana is still in front of the door; you can still hear her muffled voice, offering her help. but it’s white noise to the way rhiannon looks as she cums. her back arches and she puts her hand back over her mouth as she rides out the waves of her orgasm on your tongue. you’re lucky; she somehow manages to cum in silence. otherwise, you’re both sure, lana would’ve definitely heard…

you know by the way she later grabs you by the arm and guides you back to her car that you’re in for something when you get back home.

#rhiannon lewis Ღ #˙🔞 ̟ !! mdni #🪐 anon #rhiannon lewis x reader #sweetpea

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necrotic-nephilim · 14 days ago

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Hey there, are you ok?

hey! thank you for checking up on me, this was really sweet!

i SWEAR i did not die. i just got a bit busy doing SladeRobin Week (which i will finish so help me god-) as well as things in my real life. i'm still trying to find the balance of like. fandom creation and working. i am very lucky to have the living situation that i do rn, but it is the sort of schedule where i do have to be ready to watch a baby at really any given point so. it's a tricky balance right now, but i'm going to be active here again! maybe not as many asks answered a day as before, but i want to try to answer like, a few a day and whatnot.

i also think i got briefly overwhelmed, in that i got more asks faster than i answered them. which is the opposite of a problem and something i'm very lucky for! but it did make it difficult for me to keep up and know what to answer next. (this is *not* a discouragement to sending asks! i love them all and pls send as many as you want! i just am a little slow sometimes so i appreciate the patience! <3)

so! i'm back and i'm good, ty for asking! we are back to the regularly scheduled programming <3

#necrotic answerings #this was really sweet anon #like not asking for content. just checking in #made me so soft #also when I initially was going to come back there was you know.#the fucking us election.#and I think it's very fucking clear by the everything about me how I feel about that #I needed a few days to just. handle feelings on all that #also also I started a new show. my partner finally convinced me to watch 911.#so i've been thinking about those lil firefighters.#which. I did make a blog for 911.#haven't posted anything yet! but I made it.#bc godDAMNIT the dead dove scene over there is scarce. fandom full of antis Jesus.#I like a challenge tho. I'm bringing the dead dove to the firefighters not even god can stop me on that one.#I have almost 100 asks to work through.#AND I WILL FINISH THE WHUMP ONES I SWEAR ON MY LIFE PLEASE.#I just had a few weeks of adjustment to both my sister and my brother in law working full time again #I love my darling nephew. but I cannot type and play with him at the same time.#taking care of babies is like. easy until it isn't idk how better to explain it #he will sleep for 4 damn hours and I will be peacefully bored #then he wakes up and wants to fight Jesus.#I don't like kidfic but I could write a good one with this experience by now tbh.

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boyfridged · 2 years ago

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You may have already mentioned this in some of your other metas, and I just missed it, so please ignore this if it's redundant.

Do you think Bruce is projecting onto Jason by pushing him as a Robin? Obviously, Jason wanted to be Robin and was excited about it, and Bruce let Jason do other things, but (if I'm not mistaken) before Tim came into play, solidifying the whole Batman needs a Robin/support to keep him upright, Bruce and Dick becoming Batman and Robin, in the beginning, was also sort of a coping mechanism.

I think there are a few examples of Bruce enabling this kind of mindset. Like in Gotham Knights #43–44 (sorry), every time Barbara brings up Jason's inner turmoil, Bruce refocuses on his ability as a Robin; similarly, when Jason finds out about Two-Face and his dad, he is hurt, and Bruce acknowledges that but then does the same thing, zeroing in on reassuring Jason that he made a mistake but is still a good Robin.

Like, Jason got it from Bruce, but he unintentionally encouraged that kind of thinking.

oh, i definitely think that bruce is projecting on jason and that it profoundly affected jay. and, while every single one of your observations is apt, i would add that what truly made it so tragic is that he projected his own worst traits on jason while being blind to the fact that jay already shared his best qualities.

tldr: bruce projects himself on jason in terms of grief (saying that jason needs vigilantism to work his grief through) and sees his own worst traits in jason (anger) but doesn't see his own best traits in jay (compassion, love, and sensitivity). ironically, jason does end up developing all of the (projected) worst characteristics of bruce (obsessiveness, and relentlessness in pursuit of the respective perceived idea of justice). this happens even though they were barely present in his early storylines, and only ever manifested when jason was scared or lost. later, they truly came to be because of his trauma relating to vigilantism.

and the long, long version, coming with panels and quotes: under the cut.

first i want to say that the following analysis focuses very specifically on bruce's mistakes, but i don't view the overall of jay's upbringing by bruce solely in these terms. from text it is also clear that bruce deeply loves and cares about jay, and that jay enjoys being robin. now that this is clear, let's get to particularities, and start with jay's origin story.

i truly never stop thinking about the significance of bruce meeting jay in the crime alley, the place of his parents' death. there's a lot to be said about it, but here the focus is, of course, on the fact that he sees a little boy, very much similar to himself, angry and hurt, in the same scenery that brought him so much grief. and jay in some ways does appear to be a mirror of bruce's own agonies, as well as a mirror of his own inclination for seeking justice; and somehow, bruce fixates on the first one, while almost completely dismissing the latter.

bruce looks at him and assumes that the remedy to jason's pain and anger is being robin; and he doesn't stop to think about it. (it has to be noted that there's also classism at play, classism that is mostly a result of writers' own beliefs – collins did state in a couple of interviews that that the motivation behind jason's background was to make his introduction into vigilantism seem less offensive, as jason has already been exposed to crime...)

i think, in this context, it's interesting to look at the two-face storyline even closer, and from the start too. in the beginning, bruce talks of jason's 'street' roots and assumes jay would go "down the same criminal road that took his father [willis] to an early death." he also talks of jason making a lot of progress. later, in batman #411, after jason learns that willis has been killed by two-face, bruce comments that jay "has never been like this...listless...almost pouting--"

this all, along with jay's cheerful and diligent behaviour from the previous issue builds an interesting picture for us: because we essentially learn that jay has been overall an unproblematic child. bruce, of course, attributes this "progress" to the training. however, for anyone else, the logical conclusion would be that jay's quick adjustment was simply a matter of finding himself in a safe and stable environment and receiving continuous support and attention from a parental figure. i find it rather questionable that jason's personality softened down because he had something to punch in the cave–– the more intuitive explanation is of course that he was angry and quick to fight when they first met because he couldn't afford anything else and because he was scared. but months later, in a loving home, he can allow himself to drop his guard; and his cocky attitude disappears until much later.

so the rather unsettling picture that we derive is that bruce is training jay to become a vigilante in order to "channel" his (nonvisible at this point) anger into something useful and just. and he clearly links this to his own trauma in batman #416 (that’s already starlin btw), in his conversation with dick, explaining why he took jay in: “he’s so full of anger and frustration… he reminds me of myself, just after my parents were killed.” bruce also mentions that soon after their first meeting, jason helped him and "handled himself well" in the fight, but he doesn't mention that jay has ran away from a crime "school" and intended to stop injustice on his own only because he was ignored.

the theme of bruce comparing jay to himself appears again in detective comics #574 (barr), where it is approached with a much more... critical look, thanks to leslie's presence and her skepticism of bruce's actions. after jason has suffered nearly fatal injuries at the hand of the mad hatter, bruce reminisces on his own trauma and motives. he tells leslie: "i didn't choose jason for my work. he was chosen by it...as i was chosen." leslie replies: "stop that! (...) you do this for yourself... you're still that little boy (...)" then, the conversation steers to the familiar ground and the topic of anger. in bruce's words, again: “i wanted to give jason an outlet for his rage…wanted him to expunge his anger and get on with his life…” and finishes "and instead, i may have killed him."

the recognition that bruce's projection on jason and involving him with his work might have fatal consequences is, as always, fast forgotten once jay wakes up and proclaims that he wants to continue his work as robin.

but to circle back, i think there's something else worth our attention, something deeply ironic, that is showcased in that issue: that bruce has no evidence for jay's "rage." when leslie talks of bruce's past, she recalls his tendencies to get into brutal fights at perceived injustice as early as in school; when bruce talks of jason, two pictures that are juxtaposed, are that of jason fighting as robin and jason... smiling, playing baseball.

so, in the early days of jason's training and work in the field, we see bruce talking of jason's anger a lot; but we barely see it.

that being said, jay is angry sometimes– and i think your observation about how bruce deals with it is incredibly interesting and accurate.

we first see jay truly and devastatingly angry in the two-face storyline. bruce focuses on jay's reaction as robin, which is, in fact, aggressive. but something that he barely addresses is that jason's first reaction is sleeping all day, and not beating anyone to a pulp; in fact, this vengeful instinct seems to arise only when he is put right in front of two-face. and his third instinct, once the rage (very quickly) dies down after the altercation with two-face, is crying, because bruce hid the truth about willis' death from him. jay, while crying, asks bruce: "you have taken me out into combat-- but you spare me this?" in response, bruce lectures jason about how grief inspires revenge, which is, again, deeply ironic, given that jay seeking out revenge seemed to be prompted and enabled solely by the role of robin. moreover, his question suggests that at this point he saw grief ("you spare me this") and fighting as two different things.

the final is, as you said, bruce focusing on making it into a lesson on vigilantism, or, in his own words, "tempering revenge into justice." personally, i think in this way bruce directs jason to bring his grief into the field as a powering force, something that he didn't necessarily have an own incentive to do. the flash of compartmentalisation between his ordinary life and being a sidekick that jay has shown by questioning bruce's decision is lost. emotions are now a robin thing, and they have an (informal) protocol, a moral code. and when jay is confronted with an emotionally exhausting case next – the garzonas case, i believe that the focus on "tempering revenge into justice" is exactly the problem– we don't see jay crying, we see him frantic about finding the solution. this, right there, is bruce's obsessiveness, that in my opinion, was developed in jay specifically as a result of how his engagement with vigilantism combines with his deep sensitivity.

and, needless to say, his sensitivity is all the same as that of bruce – they both can't stand looking at other people hurting, they both wear their hearts on their sleeve, caring way too much – the thing is, bruce never quite acknowledges how they are similar in this matter. instead, he focuses on his sparse bursts of anger, wanting to bring jason closure in his grief the only way he knows it – in a fight for a better world. so, as you said, he focuses on jason's ability as robin.

which just doesn't work for jason. at all. we know it from how his robin run comes to an end: in the first issue of a death in the family (batman #426) alfred informs: “i’ve come upon him, several times, looking at that battered old photograph of his mother and father, crying.” to that, bruce contends: “in other words, i may have started jason as robin before he had a chance to come to grips with his parents deaths.” he also tells jay that the field is not a place for someone who is hurting; a message that is the opposite of what he's been saying for years now, and something that i imagine was difficult for bruce to conceptualise, because then he would have to question his own unhealthy tendencies. it's a bit late to come to this realisation; bruce's self-projection that caused him to worry so much about jay's anger has already turned into a self-fulfilling prophecy that will fully manifest itself in utrh, when jason does the only thing he was taught to do with grief: try to channel it into justice.

#AHHH this took me so long for no reason at all. so sorry anon <3 #anyway. i'm obsessed with your observation regarding bruce's focus on robin in the two-face storyline #i've already briefly considered it but you made me go back and reread it #and i just stared at these panels of jason in bed all day for like good 5 minutes thinking. jesus christ. jesus christ #“you spare me *this*?” <- this line is making me feel SICK TO MY STOMACH.#so maybe bruce is right when he says that he made jason like this in tfz.#and jay is of course even more right when he says that he didn't make him. he raised him #also don't apologise for bringing in gotham knights #i actually talked about it some before because it is a very good illustration of bruce projecting on jay #<- i didn't include it here bc my post was getting insanely long.#anyway back on the topic. i think it's so deeply sad that jay genuinely has no idea #that this is what bruce thinks #i think he would be DEVASTATED if he knew the way bruce fixated on the idea of his anger #hm. normal now.#thank you so much for this ask. you can tell i was delighted to answer it <3 #i actually already had a draft about it when you sent it... but i'm sooo slow with editing my word vomit #outbox #jay.zip #jay.txt #dc #jason todd #core texts

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silverwhittlingknife · 2 years ago

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I noticed something in a lot of your Dick and Tim fics. It's probably so obvious, but you always write that Tim is watching Dick. In your newest one, Tim's watching Dick, in The Return Tim's watching Dick, and you even write that Tim is always watching him. Is Tim trying to read Dick? Trying to understand? Or does he understand him by watching? What is he trying to figure out by watching Dick? What does that say about Tim? I really hope this is intentional lmao because I would be embarrassed. Maybe this is just something so obvious that I'm just getting now.

YES IT’S ON PURPOSE <333 Anon. Anon. I'm so sorry this answer took forever, but listen, this was a really delightful ask <333 I think about this a lot. I really love origin stories—I like stories that resonate through a character’s history.

And for me, a whole lot of what interests me about Dick and Tim is that theme of watching and being watched. Seeing and being seen.

"Watch me on the trapeze, Tim. I'm going to do my act...'specially for you." | "Timmy, don't look." | "I turned away... I couldn't watch. Then I heard you crying and I turned back... I'm sorry, Dick. I didn't want to hurt you by telling you all this." Dick's watching me. Gauging my reactions. (Tim watching Dick watching Tim!) | "I'm taking off the blindfold." "No!" | "I can't see him. You can't see him. But I know Robin. And Robin's always there when you need him." | I love that kid. Too much to let him see me like this. (But Tim spots him anyway.)

Spotlights and lighthouses and cameras and photographs. Blindness and vision and masks and detective work and trust.

I'm going to try to be coherent about this but it's gonna be incoherent sdfsf BUT I'M GOING TO TRY so. Below the cut, a really long grab-bag of my rambling on vision and watchers and watching.

Tim + watching / Dick + being watched / different dynamics

Tim's origin story

Being watched goes with vulnerability/exposure

Incomplete list of moments with Dick and Tim and vision

Tim + watching

The first time we see Tim's face in LPoD: a close-up on his eyes looking for Dick, a close-up on his eyes at the moment that he sees Dick, a pullback to his face at the moment of recognition, a pullback to his face + his camera (you could maybe even argue that Tim comes into existence at the moment that he sees Dick, like, conceptually. the act of seeing is his defining characteristic. it is the thing that makes his character happen. he is the kid who's watching.)

Tim's a very vision-centric character: he's first introduced as a camera, then as a pair of binoculars, then as a pair of eyes. His whole backstory is about watching: watching Dick's parents die, watching Dick on TV, watching Batman and Robin. I've grabbed a few panels above with Tim watching Dick but there are so many more. His major deductions are all vision-based: he sees Dick-the-acrobat and later recognizes Dick-as-Robin; he sees Bruce-in-the-past and recognizes him as Bruce-of-our-time; the climactic moment in Red Robin is about going into a dark cave with a torch so he can see what's there.

And he's a detective. He pries into secrets. He analyzes people. He's a worrywart and a fusser who always wants to understand what's going on with other people. In a lot of those panels where Tim's watching Dick, his inner monologue is busy deducing Dick's emotions and trying to psychoanalyze him. Tim's caring and watchful and intuitive... but all those qualities also make him very very intrusive.

Dick + being watched

Dick performing acrobatics for Bruce, Donna, and Tim in Detective Comics 38 (his first appearance), New Teen Titans 16, Batman 441, and Nightwing 88 (where he reflects he's glad to be back in the hot glare of the spotlight)

Dick's a detective too, of course - Tim deliberately mirrors Dick, both in-universe and out-of-universe. But also Dick's a performer who loves being watched and also wants to control how he's seen. He gets a kick out of showing off, making puns, kicking ass, taking names, and he gets a kick out of having an appreciative audience. And he's got a kind of yearning for recognition - it hurts, when Bruce won't look at him, and in fights with Bruce, Babs, Roy, he'll often bring up the past, trying to get them to acknowledge a shared history.

At the same time, he's a very private person who withdraws and hides and pushes people away when he's upset. Right before Tim shows up, Dick's just ghosted the Titans because he's having emotional turmoil and doesn't want to have it in front of them, and they're trying to respect his wishes... but that solitude doesn't last long, because then Tim tracks him down. Tim will do this again when Dick's having an emotional crisis and trying to avoid everybody in Nightwing 110.

Possible dynamics

Tim watches Dick in Robin 11, while silently analyzing Dick's anxieties about Two-Face

"The watcher and the person being watched" is a dynamic that really interests me, partly because it can be so complicated?

You can see in Dick and Tim their very first roles: enthusiastic performer and the enthusiastic audience member. Dick likes to perform and show off and entertain; Tim likes to watch; those are roles they both easily slide into and they have a lot of fun together! But also you can look at the harsher side: the crime victim and the voyeur, the amateur photographer and the guy who hates being photographed. Dick's intensely private about his vulnerabilities; Tim's intrusive and watchful and constantly trying to figure out how other people tick. Sometimes Tim's the caring friend who watches Dick closely, reads him well, understands him; sometimes he's the nosy mini-detective who pries into Dick's secrets. And that's just two different ways of describing the same thing!

One of the things that kinda fascinates me about Dick and Tim's relationship is that in a lot of ways it's built on a bunch of low-key boundary violations. A lot of their early relationship is driven by Tim's desire to know more about Dick vs. Dick's reluctance to get close to anyone from Gotham; Tim's often out-of-line, but without his pushiness, it's hard to see how they would've developed a relationship at all. Later on, their friendlier relationship is marked by Dick teasing and low-key bullying Tim; it's pretty obvious that Tim isn't actually bothered by this, but it does involve Dick ignoring whatever Tim's claiming he doesn't like ("Quit it!" "Shh").

And one of the aspects of those boundary-violations is that Tim has a habit of witnessing things that Dick would prefer that nobody see. Tim's a witness to Dick's first and most miserable tragedy; he sees the aftermath of some of Dick's fights with Bruce; he's there when Donna dies. And he's sharp and observant and analytical, and I like to imagine this as being something Dick's not entirely comfortable with.

When Dick first meets Tim, it's before he's learned to wear a mask. And Tim spends a lot of time trying to see through Dick's masks, and he's pretty good at it, and a lot of that prying comes from love and care, because one of the ways that Tim shows love and respect and admiration is by trying to absorb absolutely everything about you, like a little sponge. But there's also something unsparing and even threatening about the search for the truth of someone else. It can be comforting or threatening, to know someone's watching you.

And I love how all that complexity is wrapped up in Tim's origin story? Both the giddy childish "Watch me on the trapeze" and then the awful grim reality of what Tim actually sees as a result and then the difficult connection when Dick and Alfred finally get Tim to explain how he knows their secret identities.

Tim's origin story

Tim (recounting his origin story in LPoD): My parents held me back as the thing moved to you. I cried out to warn you. (Two panels where we see just Tim's eyes, as he watches a crying Dick. He sees Batman approach and start trying to comfort Dick.)

I think fiction sometimes presents "being understood / seen / known" as an uncomplicatedly good thing, and there's nothing wrong with that! But I like complications, and I like the way Tim's origin story frames that moment of witnessing as difficult and fraught. Tim doesn't want to tell Dick how he knows their secret identities because he thinks it'll hurt Dick to know it: I don't want to hurt you, Dick, and I'm really afraid I might. And he's not wrong. It is painful; it does hurt; it's not something Dick's happy to know.

Dick's a very private person, and there's a painful intimacy to Tim's origin story - it's not Tim's fault he was there, but at the same time, it's not like Dick chose to have the most traumatic moment of his life on stage in front of an audience of strangers, you know? It's kind of a violation. In NTT/NT/Nightwing, Dick's pretty violently hostile to photographers, and he's intensely private about trauma in general, and I like to imagine this as partly a reaction to that foundational trauma of losing the most important people in his life and also doing it publicly.

And Tim's part of that audience. And he sees the worst part, the part that Dick can't talk about. He sees the bodies and the blood. He has nightmares about it for years. He hears Dick crying and sees him holding onto his parents' bodies. Not at all the kind of first impression Dick would want to make. Not at all the kind of person he wants to be seen as. And that understanding can be painful, because it's so close to the bone, and when Tim's just a stranger, it's upsetting, because Tim knows things that Dick would never have chosen for him to know. Their few conversations about it are awkward partly because Tim's thirteen and awkward... but at the same time, it's not Tim's fault so much as the situation! There's no way for Tim to talk about what he saw that wouldn't be uncomfortable for Dick.

... And yet, and yet. Tim's also one of the last people to see the Graysons alive. He sees Dick and his parents together; he even takes a picture with them. He remembers the whole thing so vividly he'll recognize Dick's somersault years later. He sees the grief. And so I think of that connection as kind of a metaphor for witnessing. Tim sees these things and they become real; Dick can't hide from them; in the act of being seen he's caught, he's in a spotlight, all the grief made real. You can't hide, that way. And Tim's got this unforgiving memory; he won't ever forget; he won't ever stop knowing.

But then, too: Dick's seen, he's known. Even at the very beginning, when Tim doesn't know enough to understand what he knows, he knows the important things.

So that shared memory is a barrier and a bond between them. It can be a source of discomfort or a source of comfort. And that's how I think about Tim watching Dick in general - it's complicated, and sometimes Dick's glad of it, and sometimes he resents it, and also it just is, it's a fact of Tim, that Tim watches. It's notable when he's not watching, when he's turned away.

Being watched goes with vulnerability/exposure

So I'm going to talk about the fraught feeling of being watched more in a little bit, but first: I think it's fascinating that Dick likes screwing around with games where Tim can't see!

Here's Nightwing 25 - Dick's come up with the idea of trainsurfing while blindfolded:

Tim: Are you sure this is such a good idea? Dick: Shh! Listen. Tune into the changing sounds and - Tim: I'm not so - Dick: JUMP!

Here's Robin 49 - clambering through a tunnel into No Man's Land:

Dick: Hard not to think about the river. All the water above us. And bugs. This tunnels' probably full of 'em. And rats. Big ones. Big blind rats with teeth as long as -

Here's Gotham Knights 9 - ambushing Tim in a sorta game of hide-and-seek:

Dick: Gotcha! Tim: Augh!

I feel like mmm I don't want to emphasize power dynamics too much because it's easy to overplay it BUT when I think about headcanons it's interesting to me to think about how maybe when Tim can't see, Dick's more in charge / in control, and so he feels more comfortable and less vulnerable, and that's often when he's most relaxed and playing around the most?

Whereas the moments when Tim's looking at him are often a bit more fraught, as here in Lonely Place of Dying:

Tim: I'm sorry, Dick. I really am. I didn't want to hurt you by telling you all this. Dick... Dick: It's all right, Tim. No matter how old you are, there are some things you never forget. Or get over. (Silent panel: Tim's watching Dick as Dick turns away and stares into the window.)

Or here in Nightwing 6, when Tim wakes him up from a nightmare:

Dick (internally, imagining a kid falling): He shouts to me. He always shouts to me. I never hear what he says. Tim: Nightwing! Wake up!

Or here in Gotham Knights 26, when Bruce is accused of murder:

(Silent panel where Tim's watching Dick.) Tim: I'm sorry. This must be hard for you. Dick: Me? Why? Tim: Well, I mean, it'd be one thing if we really knew he was innocent, but as it is - Dick: Wait, what? Stop right there. What are you saying, Tim?

Here's Tim spotting him before he can get away in Nightwing 110:

Dick (watching Tim from a distance, internally): Still, Timmy played it through nice and clean. Disarmed the perps, protected and avoided the cops. Kept any civilians from getting shot. God, I love that kid. Too much to let him see me like this. Tim: Hey! (appearing on the roof above him, fake-cheerful) You weren't gonna leave without saying hi, were you? Dick (looking away, very quietly): Hey, Timmy. Tim: Look at you, man! Back on both feet! Think you're done stopping bullets with your body for a while? Dick: Hope springs eternal. (Silent panel with Tim watching Dick, who's turned away.) Tim: You okay, Dick? Dick: I'm fine. Tim: Well, where're you staying these days? Dick: With some people.

Of course, sometimes Tim's watchfulness is frustrating but also a comfort, as in Detective Comics 874:

Tim (watching Dick, who's looking away): Are you listening to me, Batman? I'm saying the gas the Dealer used on you was powerful stuff. Dick: I'm fine, Red Robin. Besides...you're here now. Tim: You're not fine. And with or without me, you shouldn't be out on patrol ye - Dick: Sshhh. Here they come.

(Later in the comic, Dick mentally concedes that Tim's right that he hasn't really recovered from the gas, and Tim saves him from drowning when he's hallucinating. So Dick feels kind of exposed by the scrutiny, but also... he invited Tim along, so there's trust there, too - Tim's perceptiveness can be a good thing, too, when things are serious.)

Incomplete summary of moments with Dick and Tim and vision

I think I already mentioned a lot of these but here is my LIST

almost the first thing that Dick says to Tim is "watch me on the trapeze, Tim" and then Tim does and he basically never stops watching;

Tim watches Dick's parents die and watches Dick sobbing on-stage and watches him on TV and recognizes him by seeing a particular trick because he's dreamed about Dick doing the trick in his recurring nightmares about that night;

in New Titans 65 which is their very first team-up comic after Tim's origin, Dick's training pre-Robin Tim and gives him a test about watching for details and later Tim's takeaway is "I saw how [the Titans] listened to you";

there's a moment in Showcase '93 12 which is just Tim watching Dick and analyzing what's going on with him and there's another moment in Prodigal which is the same thing;

in Nightwing 6 Tim sneaks into Dick's apartment and hides in the dark and Dick spots him and tackles him; one of their most important bonding comics is Nightwing 25, where Dick insists on blindfolding him to get him to rely less on vision; when they sneak into No Man's Land they're in the dark and Tim can't see again and Dick's teasing him;

there are multiple moments when Tim can't see Dick for a bit and panics about his safety, in Nightwing 25, in No Man's Land, in Transference, in Bruce Wayne: Murderer;

Tim's there watching when Dick's wedding to Kory falls apart and he's there watching when Bruce and Dick fight and he's there watching when Donna dies and he's watching when Dick and Bruce swing together on the night before Infinite Crisis, and when Dick goes down and almost dies in Infinite Crisis we cut to Tim watching and seeing it happen and screaming;

there are multiple moments which are just silent panels of them staring at each other trying to figure out what's going on with each other or having a stand-off - in Bruce Wayne: Murderer, in Resurrection, in Red Robin;

in the aftermath of Donna's death there's a panel where Dick's watching Tim from a distance and not approaching;

in the aftermath of Blockbuster Dick spends half the comic just staring at Tim from a distance and hiding himself because "I love that kid - too much to let him see me like this," but Tim sees him anyway and chases him down and then they lie to each other and *ranting* LISTEN TO ME the whole comic is about Dick trying to AVOID being SEEN both literally but also METAPHORICALLY AND --!!!

(the only thing i'm even as halfway obsessive about for them is the heights thing because also there are a bunch of moments involving falling or Tim being anxious about heights and worried that he'll fall or Dick will fall)

In conclusion

Consider the progression in all these moments where Tim's watching an upset Dick and worrying about him!! From reaching out instinctively-but-pointlessly when he's too far away in the LPoD flashback, to almost reaching out in LPoD but hesitating, to putting a hand on Dick's back to walk him back to the Cave in Gotham Knights 10, to physically dragging him clear of the water in Batman: Black Mirror!

In conclusion I don't have a conclusion but basically YES, "watching Dick" is a core Tim characteristic as far as I'm concerned, and Tim watches Dick a lot and that can mean all kinds of things from admiration to nosy intrusiveness to worry to care to gratitude to trying-to-figure-out-what's-going-on-with-him, and sometimes Dick's resentful and sometimes he's relieved and sometimes he's playful and sometimes it's a mix of all those feelings.

And at first it's always Tim watching Dick, but later you've got Dick watching Tim too, and there's that moment where Dick's secretly watching him fight but Tim spots him in Nightwing 110 and there's a silent panel where Dick's watching him in Resurrection and at the very end of Robin there's a scene where Dick's secretly watching him fight but Tim spots him and in the very last issue of Red Robin Dick's watching the end of the confrontation with Boomerang and in Prodigal Dick's the one who notices his face is bruised and aaaaaaah

Anyway I think they're neat <3

#ask tag #hi anon this is SO old i'm so sorry sdfsfs #if you're still here hi!! <333 #this was such a validating ask to get because as you can probably tell i think about the vision thing constantly #also this is SO long oh man. sorry i just started typing and it went on and on sdfdsf #dick grayson #tim drake #dick & tim #it's like. it's just endlessly fascinating to me because the paparazzi/photography stuff is one of dick's biggest triggers #and tim's introduced as a surreptitious amateur photographer #so there's no WAY they will ever get along #but then there's the Meaningful Photo from before the show #that low-key shows that tim's freaky obsessiveness comes from a place of genuine caring & this moment of real connection #so you have early days!dick kinda vibrating back and forth between 'I DON'T WANT HIM MAKE HIM GO AWAY'#vs. those moments when he IS getting attached to tim kinda against his will sdfsdf #and just. the dichotomy between paying attention as a form of love vs. being watched as a kind of violation and exposure #and that both are kinda the same thing?? and dick deeply craves the first and deeply hates the second #tim shows up being all I REMEMBER and what he remembers is exactly what dick was demanding bruce remember in b416 #but /also/ he remembers /everything/ 'i remember it all' he remembers the graysons dying in incredibly painful detail #and like. kid!tim is very tactless & has only two switches of 'TELL HIM NOTHING' and 'if forced to speak then overshare'#but the tactlessness is a fixable problem and the remembering is /not/#it's not like it's any better for tim to keep his mouth shut & dick to just be painfully /aware/ that he's thinking abt the graysons dying #bc ofc /tim/ remembering forces /dick/ to remember #but!! but also. you know. maybe that remembering /isn't/ entirely a bad thing #and dick's feelings about it can change over time #anyway tim's not the only person that dick has this kind of conflict with - wally & roy sometimes chase him down when he's withdrawing too #and he often doesn't really appreciate it from them either #and dick's not the only person who gets subjected to tim's particular brand of intrusive caring #conner's not thrilled about the dna thing & ives would be within his rights to resent the stalking even though he doesn't #but i am obviously personally most fond of the ways this plays out with dick & tim

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