#i will never forgive the writers for season 8

[yesimacreepweirdo]

The only thing that makes me feel better about not getting a Debster romance is watching New Blood and seeing Dexter torn to pieces over Deb's death, even 10 years after the fact. His conversations with her- his days spent with her in his head- literally if you never watched the original series and only watched New Blood, you would think he was imagining his dead wife, not his dead foster sister.

Two things really stuck out to my Debster heart in New Blood. One was that table scene where they reach for each others hands, and then suddenly, he remembers that she's not actually there. It really showed how much he was tormented over her death even after so much time had passed. It was the biggest fuck you she could have gave him while simultaneously still loving him. He ruined her. She became contaminated with his dark passenger, and it destroyed her. Her love for him was her downfall, and it was her turn to ruin him, and that's exactly what she did in the afterlife.

And 2 was the very end when he's dying and he's reaching for her one last time before he slips away. He knew he was dying, and he wanted his last moments to be with her, even if it was only his imagination that allowed him to do it.

Their love for each other went so much deeper than a normal sibling relationship, and frankly, after all the death and destruction Dexter caused, it melts my heart that Deb's death is the only one that haunts him to the core.

[scaponigifs]

SOBBING

But it would’ve been fun, If you would’ve been the one.

[johanna-swann]

I actually have sooo many issues with 911 lately that haven't even got much to do with any ships.

Like. They wrote out almost all of the side characters. Chris is gone, Linda and Sue are gone, Athena's kids are gone (even though Harry just moved in with her and Bobby again? Seriously, where is Harry?), Ravi is gone, Carla is gone. I know the GA maybe don't care that much, casual viewers might not even have noticed that this many characters have just vanished from the show, but in my opinion this is one of the things that give a show running as long as 911 life. Having a big cast is a good thing. Otherwise things are going to get very monotonous very soon.

Actually, that's my second point. They keep repeating storylines! Every season Hen and Karen have to fight a custody battle over one of their kids.

Every season Eddie ends up realising he has a lot of repressed trauma and issues which keep him from leading a healthy happy and free life.

Every season Bathena realise that they have communication issues and they fight about it, but then something traumatic happens and they forgive each other without ever really talking things out.

Every season we are reminded that Maddie's most prominent character trait is "traumatised", the writers just alternatingly bring up Doug again and sometimes the ppd arc.

Every season we see Buck being somewhat restless, looking and searching for something that will bring him true happiness and cycling through love interests that never stick around and each time when you think "oh, there it is, he's getting somewhere now" the writers go "BEEEP! WRONG!" and we start all over again. [This is not just about recent events aka Tommy, the break-up and Buck potentially going back to his 1.0 ways, this also happened in season 6 when he had his "it doesn't matter what other people see in me, I'm enough" revelation only to suddenly be like "omg, Natalia just sees me".]

And Chimney- he had his moment last season with the wedding episode, Kenneth Choi really ate that episode up, but his most prominent character trait is "Maddie's supportive husband". There's really not that much going on with him otherwise.

Another point I briefly touched upon above is consistency. Like Harry moving back in with Athena and Bobby and then just vanishing. Or Gerrard being more like a slightly unfriendly grandpa than an actual antagonist in season 8 when he was still spouting slurs in season 7.

And the timeline! We talked about this before ("last March", Mara's fostering to adoption timeline, Tommy tranferring to harbour "5 years ago"), but the newest "Tommy was actually Abby's Tommy" twist just adds to that. Tommy was with Abby for over 2 years. They were engaged. This was at a time when he was still at the 118. Tommy dated Abby presumably because he was in denial or maybe because he was hiding. In either case, wouldn't his team at least have heard about his fiancée, Abby the dispatcher? Wouldn't that have rung a bell when Buck eventually brought her around only a year or two later? Tommy did talk about his private life at least a little at work, even under Gerrard. It just doesn't make sense. (Not to mention this seems wildly out of character for Tommy who around the same time also said about himself "being single is easier".)

Then there's the pacing. This was a huge issue in season 7. They jumped from one personal soap opera drama to the next without taking any breathers, had almost no procedural in their drama the whole season, still somehow decided to spend one third of the entire season just on the opening disaster and also squeezed in a "Bobby begins for the third time now" episode. But okay, it was a shortened season, there were strikes, they switched networks, they were under a lot of pressure - I'll cut them some slack. At least they set up a bunch of interesting stuff for the following season.

But we're in season 8 now. The renewal was announced very early, they had a lot of time to plan this time. Also they have almost double the episodes they had last season, there's really no need to rush any of the major plots. I am done cutting them slack.

They wanna do a 3 part opening disaster again? Okay fine, you have the time now. I feel like they could've easily done it in 2 episodes (especially 8x02 felt a little "eh"), but okay. Better than the breakneck speed you were going at befo- Oh, what's that? 8x04 flying in with a steel chair. You resolved 70% percent of the plots you set up last season in one single episode with no build up, no emotional pay off and no lasting consequences? And you also squeezed in multiple unrelated calls at the same time? Damn, okay then. Good-bye potentially interesting storylines. Fuck me for being invested I guess. I thought there would at least maybe be some follow up in 8x05, but no.

Now that Halloween episode wasn't bad, it was actually the best episode of this season imo, but instead of following up on previously established conflicts and developments they just hit us with new Wilson family trauma and conflict that was also immediately fixed again. And now 8x06 has speedrun and dumped another storyline that had potential to go to deeper and interesting places. Not gonna talk too much about that though because this post is about the show as a whole, not ships.

And I am not yet convinced that there will be much more to come on the only thing that's left from last season: Eddie's deep dive into his trauma and repression. It's totally possible at this point that being told "you deserve nice things" by a random stranger actually solved all of his problems, it would be very in tone with 911's new style.

What are they even gonna do with the rest of this season? Revisiting the Hotshots set sounds fun, but ultimately inconsequential. You know what's great about a regular old procedural drama with ~20 episodes per season that comes on weekly? You have time. You can let the viewers sit with their emotions and thoughts for a week and keep them engaged by stretching things out a little.

But why should I bother getting emotionally invested in problems the characters are gonna solve within the same episode anyway? Or rather, even if I wanted to, how am I supposed to care if you don't give me the time to develop any feelings about anything that's happening? "Henren lost in court and are now completely forbidden from seeing Mara at all!" Damn, that must be so har- "JUST KIDDING! Ortiz is exposed and everything is perfect again now." Oh. Okay then, I guess.

Bottom line: The characters are all stuck in their own hamster wheels, they keep cutting side characters that could bring a breeze of fresh air (I'm honestly surprised they even kept Josh until now), they rush through all the storylines a such a ridiculous speed that I don't even have time to feel any sort of way about it, they don't even try to keep a consistency or sensible timeline going and they seem to strongly prioritise random funny bits that'll entertain the very casual viewers right now in this moment (tiger call, Billy Boils, Bee-nado, the 'Stache tm, "wait, it's the same Abby?", Gerrard being a fangirl at heart) instead of playing the long game and catering to people who actually pay a little attention to the show.

[On that last remark: I'm not talking about hardcore fans who analyse every single frame here, I mean casual fans who've watched the show on and off again for a while and who may not be involved in fandom but genuinely care about the show.]

I mean. What am I even still doing here? The show is treading water and I end up disappointed more often than not. I'm still holding out a little hope that they actually will do something interesting with Eddie and his sea-monkeys, but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't.

[h50europe]

8.06 post mortem - Buck/Tommy - General - 9-1-1 Zombified

Many of us wondered why a cut emergency case from episode 7.04 was used. A novelty and if you look closely, you'll notice that the characters appeared very different from how they did in the rest of season 8, and the scenes felt erratic. This inconsistency is reminiscent of the writing from Andrew Meyers, who also wrote episode 7.04. However, in that episode, he had a co-writer who was clearly more talented. Episode 8.06 was poorly written compared to 7.04. Alone the scene in the beginning. Buck could have pointed out that this chick was interrupting the date he had with his boyfriend. Tommy then mentioned the Kinsey scale

Our walking encyclopedia had no idea what his boyfriend was talking about. Seriously? Also, Buck doesn't want to buy a present for their 6-month anniversary, and Tommy gives him 2 Lakers baseball cards and awkwardly mentions that Buck could go with Eddie? Is this dinner supposed to be romantic? Well, they could have gone to McDonalds. Meyers should have consulted his co-writer at this point; we're heading straight for disaster. Then Tim had this wonderful idea with Abby and thought it was hilarious. The guy's humour isn't just weird, it's kind of crude. Abby never mentioned that she went out with another guy from the 118. Isn't that weird? No one ever knew about it? Not Hen, not Chim? For two years? Did Tommy keep her locked in his basement? This plot is so poorly constructed that it's cringe-worthy at best. And that's when Himbo's jaw hit the floor… along with the audience.

The only good scene was Josh's GLEE speech. And I may be reading between the lines, but I felt that the way Josh talked about post and past GLEE and how Buck can't blame Tommy for his actions because times were different was a wink and a nod to the haters. I really had the impression that this was a cunning move to address why Tommy was who he was back then and why he has changed now.

But seconds later I nearly choked on my drink, and I can tell you it's orgasmic when a sip of Pepsi comes out of your nose, when Maddie said, "She wondered how many men Abby had turned gay." Because I was chatting to a friend before I watched the episode and I almost said the same thing. I live in Europe, so I watched it the next day, knowing what was coming, but nothing about that particular scene. Which, frankly, was terrible.

Forgive me for ignoring the emergencies in this episode. They were repetitive, to say the least, just with different protagonists.

So far we have a recycled episode, a recycled ex, a recycled emergency and a recycled scenario, Maddy is pregnant (hooray). It begins to reek of decay.

Brownie points to those who aren't already traumatised or bored to death. Now for the highlight: Tommy shows up at Buck's apartment in a great mood. He is looking forward to a date with his friend and hot sex as the icing on the cake (that's what I had in mind). Tommy gets suspicious when Buck asks him to sit down. It doesn't take long before he pulls out his phone and shows his friend photos of Abby and a younger Buck. This is followed by an awkward explanation of why he didn't share the news in the restaurant, and Tommy's reaction is a little awkward too. But this is only the overture to the worst retconning I have seen on television in a long time. The coincidence is swept under the carpet in the blink of an eye, and now it gets creepy.

Compare the scene in the coffee shop with this one. It has the same structure, bit by bit. Buck invites Tommy to the wedding in the coffee shop, and Tommy says, "What?" Here it is: "I want you to move in with me." We have a mashup of the first kiss and the coffee shop scene, and Oliver plays it similarly. The worst part is when Tommy turns into his zombie version. Excellently played by Lou. No doubt about it. He gave it his all. He maimed that shitty script, which felt like Meyers had raided AO3, picked the worst written fics and went for the most cringe-worthy insult he could find for a bisexual. "I was your first, but I won't be your last." Hello? This topic only comes to Tommy's mind after he is asked to move in together? I was expecting "I can't move in with you because I wouldn't know where to put my car lift and Muay Thai studio". No, it's because all the trust and love Tommy put in Buck is wiped out by the retconning of Tommy's personality. He succumbs to total chaos. This is not the Tommy we met in S7 and certainly not the one we met in 8.05. Fuck me! It didn't make sense. We would have needed a lot more background information ON SCREEN to make it believable. A scene from Tommy's past. Who hurt him so badly? It wasn't Abby. She only managed to traumatise Buck. Was it after he met Abby? Was it another guy?

Hello writers, are you still in your right mind? We have no clues. Neither the loyal fans and certainly not the new ones. You're reducing a character to a sad laughing stock. You rob him of all his merits, which you had Buck recite like a poem in school. And then you expect us to believe it? You steamroll over everything that's been painstakingly built up to this episode? It's actually convenient, I let the whole relationship run off screen. We don't see any flying lessons together, no training together, no cosy get-togethers in front of the TV, no exchange of affection, nothing. It's all headcanon. Guys, I've seen shows and movies where a sequence like this lasted five minutes and you knew where the couple stood. Maybe a flashback or two into Tommy's past would have helped. But no, instead the audience had to put up with the same old nonsense. A ridiculous story about an urn, a guy who sneezes and his intestines fall out, a kid who doesn't fall down a drain but slips down a pipe. They give us nothing, but we're supposed to believe everything, retconning is so great. If any of us wrote fanfiction like that, we'd be banned from AO3. And as if that wasn't enough, Tommy stands up and says, "Believe me, I didn't see this coming either. Tell me, were you on drugs when you were writing? There are a thousand ways to respond sensibly to "Let's move in together" without turning it into such a dumpster fire. The crowning glory of all this madness is when Tommy says "I'll see you around Buck" instead of Evan (the same words he said to Evan when he left him standing outside the restaurant on their first date). Where did that come from? It's as if Tommy had lost all respect for his lover, or as if he wanted to punch him in the face while he was already on the ground. We, the viewers, also had this feeling. And Tommy's behaviour was completely disturbed. I wonder if he checked himself into a mental facility right after that.

I won't say anything about the rest of the episode because I'm a polite person.

Conclusion: Please take the pen away from this lunatic and never let him write anything again or give him a co-writer like in 7.04. The guy is totally unhinged.

Extra brownies, you made it!

[fate-motif]

list of voyager characters ranked by least to most done dirty by the writers

10. tom paris: this boy got everything he could have ever wanted from a trip to the delta quadrant. he got a bestie who’s way too good for him, a wife he refuses to cherish and yet she married him and had his child!!! and authorities who refuse to punish him most of the time because he’s a pretty talented flyboy. even modern day trek writers cannot start lavishing praise on this douche and like, okay, he’s not all bad, but compared to what other voyager characters had for story potential and performances it’s crazy how good he got it. the only true indignity this bitch got was threshold.

9. neelix: i feel like neelix lovers are gonna brawl with me about this but i’m still steadfast that neelix was one of the characters least done dirty in voyager, but only comparatively. like, if neelix were on ds9 or on tng he would absolutely be considered an insane waste of story potential with his sad clown complex and his weird little relationship with tuvok but lbr. if they had gone even harder on neelix’s tragedies it would have felt less like he’s a sad clown and his sad all the time and that takes away the appeal of the character. also the mere fact he got to date kes when he never would have deserved her in a million years is already too huge a win for him. i mean it. 

8. the emh: he gets to be a step above neelix because the writers are so fucking bad at writing about hologram rights that it’s a serious disservice to him when the whole of the show star trek voyager bends over backwards over this guy and i cannot stand him. he gets all the screentime, all the tragic episodes, everyone is forced to be sympathetic about him, but at the same time the show makes everything so much worse for him by letting him engineer hologram characters on the holodeck to be his toys (when there’s a whole episode where we realize yes the holodeck characters are real and do not like being murdered, so maybe having two hawaiian babes or your white blond 50s housewife fawning over you is horrifying???) the writers of voyager suck so hard they can’t even write their golden boy well enough to actually make the core of his very character ideologically consistent. depressing.

7. seven of nine: i know people want me to put her over janeway, and i refuse. i’ve made no secret of this, i resent seven, i resent her so hard for taking over everybody’s screentime, i find how serious and untouchable and perfect she’s supposed to be among the voyager cast, the show writers absolutely screwed over every other character save for the emh for her sake and i resent that!!! i will never forgive her, even if it’s not her fault!!! but i’m gonna be realistic. it’s the catsuit. it’s the catsuit, it’s the obsession of putting her in the most stereotypically feminine storylines as an extension of finding her humanity, it’s the mere extension of being a woman written by mostly men. she was screwed over, hard, but i’m serious when i say: not compared to everyone else above her.

6. janeway: oh boy. i know, i know, how dare i put janeway over seven when janeway wasn’t forced to wear shrink wrap, but she’s up this high because the writers could not agree over anything she ever did and it shows. god bless kate mulgrew for making a consistent character out of that mess, but if it weren’t for her sheer talent and professionalism, janeway would be up there with archer in the list of captains with the moral backbone of a chocolate eclair. the rest of the shows lavish love on their captains. they talk about their backstory in-depth. they let them have romantic adventures every once in a while. janeway gets to be almost solely defined by her mission to bring her crew home and considering how multidimensional characters like picard and sisko are, that’s…depressing. to say nothing of how kate mulgrew was being forced out of spending time with her family for a show that in the later seasons started to edge her out in favor of the bouncier, sexier girl they brought in. like. as a captain, janeway was done SO dirty by the writers. it’s crazy. we should talk about this more. 

5. tuvok: why is he above janeway? … aside from the fact that after they introduced seven his screentime went to the chopping block. to put it simply, waste of potential. so many of tuvok’s episodes rehash his insistence on staying steadfast to traditional vulcan values, which is great, except for the fact that we don’t need that story told over and over and over again when they could follow more interesting avenues that several tuvok-centric episodes pointed towards. we could have seen more of his relationship with janeway in the past. we could have seen him truly come to terms with trusting the maquis with his life in the earlier seasons. we even had a planned episode where we met his family! imagine if we had actually seen t’pel and have her be an actual character instead of a representation of why we’re not seeing tuvok fuck! it’s tragic. it’s absolutely tragic. 

4. b’elanna: ending up with tom paris the way he treats her should make this one a no-brainer, but i’m going to keep going, because there’s a lot more to be done here. the white male writers have no idea what they’re doing writing this character, and yet, much like janeway, roxann just barely claws out a cohesive character from the mess she was given, but that doesn’t mean that the process was graceful. so she hates herself because she thinks her klingon traits make her unlovable, then why make the other voyager characters berate her on her temper incessantly and with no room for argument and make them in the right? are we also supposed to see her as hindered by her klingon ancestry? yes. the answer is yes. the writers are racist. the writers are so goddamn racist it’s nit even a joke b’elanna i’m so sorry they did this to you you deserved so much better. 

3. kes: yes she’s in third place. nobody wants to talk about kes, because her writing was weird, and jennifer lien wasn’t as successful in sculpting an engaging character out of the garbage writing she was given, i say that if b’elanna had been taken out of voyager in s4, the same could be said for her. everything that the writers do to disrespect janeway and seven is triplicated in her, even more so magnified because she’s not a tough boss ass bitch who uses guns, but a lowly nurse, which means the writers are completely disinterested in exploring her inner life. i cannot stress this enough. kes left her homeworld when they are going to lose all support making it in a desert planet frequently raided by slavers, and we never talk about it again. it is galling how little the writers ever give a fuck about her and nobody mentions it, because again. she’s the most feminine of the female characters, which means not even the fans who understand how misogynistic the voyager writers are care about interrogating her inner life and that is the most depressing thing of them all. that’s why she’s the female character done dirtiest by the writers.

2 and 1. harry and chakotay: they’re tied. they’re tied because the racism is just inescapable in both their characters and it’s so ever-present, so impossible to ignore, so repellent that most people give up on even looking at them as characters because they so often end up channelling the writers’ naked, unabashed racism you want to avert your eyes. i mean it. i mute most early voyager episodes when chakotay is onscreen because i hate that fucking pan flute. if you fuck up writing a character of color this hard, you automatically owe reparations. and that’s why i’m fine with that insufferable republican freak robert beltran having been on prodigy because look at me in the eye and tell me paramount did not owe him from everything they put him through while working on voyager. and that’s also why i’m demanding harry be rescued the same way in the future. it’s just reparations. garrett wang is owed so hard i’m not even joking. i don’t care about debates about the other spots on this list so long as you admit that in first place rightfully goes to harry and chakotay. 

[ikilledyvette]

THINGS I'D LOVE TO SEE IN SEASON 8 of 9-1-1

(in no particular order)

More Hen & Buck scenes, with or without tequila. (One of my favorite things about S6 was all the Hen and Buck time.)

Literally any kind of happy storyline for Maddie where she doesn't have to cry. (Let that poor woman breathe! JLH has been crying for literal decades now!)

Buck and Tommy continue their sweet, funny, and actually interesting romantic relationship. They can fight or have problems, sure, but not stupid bullshit problems created for The Drama. If they absolutely must break up, it's not because one or both of them have spontaneously turned into assholes. THERE WILL BE NO INFIDELITY, GODDAMNIT.

Seriously, though, Buck/Tommy are so fucking adorable, so ideally for me ... no breakup at all, please.

Zero romance for Eddie. Instead, Eddie goes back to therapy (with Frank, grief support group, etc.) and then fixes things with Christopher when Christopher comes back. (WHEN, I say, because the alternative is far too bleak.) Eddie can have romance again in S9, after he's doing better, and if the writers ever manage to give him a canonical love interest that he actually seems interested in. (TBH, I'd give someone's LEFT HAND to see Aromantic Eddie, but even for a dream list, that seems ... unlikely.)

One episode dedicated to Team Shenanigans and Hijinks. Alternatively, someone (probably Eddie) says the q-word again.

Buck having a delayed emotional breakdown about one of the following traumas: getting his leg crushed by a firetruck, surviving a tsunami, seeing Eddie get shot right in front of him, being a savior baby/lousy parents are still lousy, etc.

Someone in the 118 specifically chooses NOT to forgive their shitty parents, and everyone else on the team supports that decision. My personal favorites here are Chim and Buck, but honestly, I would take anyone. (Tommy, too, and I suspect he's the most likely candidate.)

Eddie is in full Passive Aggressive Sass Mode whenever dealing with Gerard. I want the same sort of bitchy commentary he made while he was taken hostage in that ambulance.

Let Eddie and Maddie actually have a scene together! They have a frankly weird amount in common for characters who basically never interact! (Alternatively, let Eddie and Linda's friendship from S5 continue! They can text each other recipes or something!)

More Radiohead and/or surreal nightmare imagery because that scene from "Chimney Begins" still haunts me in the best of ways.

The reappearance of any or all of the following characters (with the caveat that they are NOT allowed to die): Eli, Carla, Albert, Frank, Ruth from the gas station, and—of course—Karen. Always more Karen.

[whateverisbeautiful]

I was curious about how you think a reunion will go with the group if we ever get one. I don't think Rick and Daryl's reunion should go that smoothly. Especially given the state of their relationship when Rick disappeared. I also wonder about Maggie and Michonne. Some fans like to bring up Negan but I hope the Grimes family never sees him again.

Thanks for asking about this. This one is interesting because there are a lot of in-show and behind-the-scenes factors that could impact which route the reunions take. I wrote out a few of my opinions on it below and somehow I still surprise myself that my thoughts are never super brief lol. ⬇️💗

If the reunion is just a single scene then I think the writers will want it to be positive vibes only and won't allow for them to address a lot of the unresolved history between the characters. I think Rick and Daryl's reunion will likely be smooth both because tptb would want to reinforce the fans' love for the brotherhood but also because Rick will feel like Daryl did something invaluable by watching over his kids while he and Michonne were away.

Knowing that his kids were able to be taken care of by a family member they love would mean a lot to Rick and probably make him feel more forgiving for how things played out between him and Daryl before he left. Especially if he gets the sense from Michonne that Daryl was one of the few people there for her after he was gone, that also would make Rick feel like they can put opposition aside because Daryl was there for his family.

I'm not saying the past should all be swept to the side tho or that Rick isn't the type that would want to address some things because especially watching him in season 9 before he left, he wasn't against calling things out. But I could see the franchise choosing to have a more kumbaya feel for the reunion if all they have is minimal screen time with the characters.

However, if at all they get a bit more screen time to reconnect then it would be nice and realistic to see some honest conversations about how they left off. Especially with Maggie.

Now the Maggie reunion with Rick and Michonne is one I could see being a bit more rocky. Because with Daryl, he and Rick got to at least hash some things out in that pit before Rick's departure and Daryl and Michonne were close and on good terms before she went to bring Rick home. (Honestly, Daryl and Michonne felt like closer confidantes than Rick and Daryl imo, since Rick and Daryl always read more like brothers than best friends to me, but that's a whole other conversation lol. Like pretty much all of season 8 and early season 9 Rick and Daryl's relationship was not in a good state. That's also why I'd be interested in seeing Michonne reunite with Daryl just as much as Rick since they always had a really solid loving friendship). But Maggie seemed to end on not the best of terms with both Rick and Michonne.

Like I could picture that when Rick was taken and having all that time alone to reflect, he probably felt like Maggie must really have strong issues with him if she decided she had to orchestrate a whole plan behind his back.

And then Maggie and Michonne also didn't seem to reconcile after Rick's departure to the point that when Maggie left she didn't let Michonne know. I'd be so curious what Michonne knows about that bridge day. If no one ever told her exactly how those events and schemes played out that day, I could see that being hurtful to now find out that part of why she had to go without her husband for years was because their friends were crafting plans behind their backs, especially when Rick was headed home himself and then got derailed when Daryl offered to take him home instead.

But it's also been a lot of years, and I think Rick and Michonne understand that growth can occur and so they won't hate or chastise people for what happened. I think they'd both be more focused on starting fresh and building a life with their kids. But some apologies from Daryl and Maggie would still be nice. Especially considering Maggie realized Rick and Michonne had it right that Negan being locked up was actually a fitting punishment and was killing him worse than actually killing him would have. Accountability is rare among certain characters, especially when the ones they've hurt are Rick and Michonne, but it still would feel necessary to include it if the story is given more than one scene for a reunion.

And as for Negan, I very much agree with you, anon. I personally have no desire for any of the Grimes family to be seen with Negan again. I've seen that some feel Rick has to see that Negan got 'redeemed,' but that wasn't even what Rick was aiming for. He kept Negan alive to honor Carl's vision but Negan wasn't thrown in a cell to one day get out and become a valued member of society. Rick intended for him to rot in that cell as a consequence of his many deplorable actions. So I could almost see it stinging a bit for Rick to see that Negan got to build a life all while Rick was taken from his life because his friends wanted to kill Negan and then didn't even end up going through with it.

I think Rick would be perfectly happy with him and his family never crossing paths with Negan again because Negan is important to some viewers but he is not on Rick's radar like that. Everyone Rick most needed to reunite with he already reunited with in TOWL. So if they do reunions with the rest of the group it could be interesting but also, like many have voiced before, team family sorta stopped feeling like a tight-knit family after a certain point. Not even in a condemning way because it happens, but they all started to do their own thing and build their own lives. I can think of a few characters that even left or pulled away while Rick was still around and was already content with not seeing him much or ever again.

And so I'm just glad that we already got to see Rick and Michonne reunite with each other and their kids since that's they're heart and these four are the ones who will be most involved in each other's everyday life now.

[canonicallyobserving911]

Helena Diaz is a huge problem but Eddie has a blind spot for his mother and if the show isn't going to deal with it, she'll get away with all the crappy things she's said to him.

(Clearing drafts before season 8.)

Recently, while I was writing fanfics that are primarily focused on my favorite character, Eddie Diaz, I realized something about the Diaz parents' quick trip to L.A. in 7x10 and it was quite shocking. When the finale aired, I thought it was interesting they hadn't been shown in CANON since season 5 and prior to that they were only in Eddie's flashbacks in 3x15; therefore their actions in 7x10 were suspect. IMO, the only reason they showed up when Chris called in 7x10 was because Helena's been trying to get Eddie to move back to El Paso since 2x18 and before he relocated to L.A., she tried to convince him to leave Chris with her and Ramon.

Before I get started, I need to indicate that Ramon and Eddie reconciled in 5x17, therefore the majority of this post is about Helena's motivations along with the way she's always tried to control the situation. She never wanted Eddie to leave El Paso and now that she has Chris and they're raising him, I think her plan is still to get Eddie to do what she wants him to do. I don't like her because she's manipulative and controlling and I saw that smug look on her face when they were leaving. She never listens to Eddie and she's always trying to get her way. Furthermore, she's said a lot of mean and hateful things to him like "Don't drag him down with you, Eddie." What type of mother would say something like that to her child?

Prior to 7x10, it was extremely strange that Helena and Ramon didn't ever visit L.A. when they had the chance or when they should have. Eddie got shot in 4x13 and in 4x14 he had a welcome home party but they weren't there. Sure, it was during the pandemic and the actor and actress may not have been able to travel to be on set but they DIDN'T EVEN CALL. Carla did a FaceTime call with Eddie and Chris earlier in season 4, so what's the deal?

Also, in 5x17, Eddie told both of his parents "Planes fly in both directions" but they still didn't show up and he said that after his mental breakdown. They didn't know about it but in 6x15 Helena guilt tripped Eddie into traveling to El Paso for the weekend even though they were busy with Chris' extracurricular activities. Ramon's retired and Helena doesn't work so what the actual "F" is going on?

It seems like the only reason why they appeared in season 7 was so Helena could finally get what she wanted and that was to pick up Chris. She may have thought if she said Chris was going to live with them indefinitely, Eddie would move back to Texas but that's not happening.

The reason I'm not including Ramon in most of this is because as usual, he got his information about Eddie second hand from Helena the same way he used to while Eddie was growing up. Reminder, Ramon was on the road for work and any information he got about their children was told to him by Helena.

I did a post on the Diaz Dynamics (linked here) back in 2022 and based on the way everyone was standing in the backyard, it looks like Helena doesn't really get along with Ramon's side of the family.

I really don't understand why Eddie hasn't figured out his mom is the problem. She got an UNDESERVED REDEMPTION (related post) just like the raggedy Buckley parents and Sang Han. Can the writers PLEASE address these shitty parents and stop trying to retcon and redeem them? It would be different if they got a redemption arc like Toni and Hen, Athena and Beatrice and Eddie and Ramon but they didn't so this is getting ridiculous.

It's perfectly normal to show that all parents aren't good and even though it's their adult children's decision to forgive them, all of them don't deserve to be redeemed.

[thephoenixandthecrocodile]

Things I love about Season 2 of Rings of Power So Far – in no particular order

1. The entire beginning of episode 1

a. Love Sauron in his fair form off his game and a little shaken

b. Love Adar growing increasingly fed up with Sauron’s bullshit

c. Love the Ides of March moment

d. Love goo Sauron – love his little sigh. That’s me every morning when I wake up

2. Love that Sauron was always a shit and stole the badge instead of saving that guy

3. Love the Elrond-Galadriel brother-sister dynamic and poor Gil-galad caught in the middle

4. Love the Ahhh! Gil-Galad lets out when hearing that Sauron is back

5. Love Elrond jumping off the cliff. Worked for Mom (kinda) should work for me

6. I really want whatever the hell Cirdan is on

a. Also Ben Daniels is AMAZING!

7. Love that Gil-Galad gets to shine more as the grumpy, sassy, weary elf-king this season. Also love that no one is letting Galadriel get away with her bullshit from last season (and I loved Galadriel last season). Actions has consequences, even for elves.

8. YOU HAD ONE JOB, CIRDAN!

9. Why does no one ever listen to Elrond?

10. Sam Hazeldine is doing an amazing job with a tough job. I will always love Joseph Mawle’s take on Adar and he’ll always be MY Adar, but Sam is going an amazing job taking all the groundwork laid by Mawle and then adding his own spin

11. I know the internet is losing its mind over Orc families, but I LOVE the complication these writers are adding to the Orc lore (as well as Sauron’s arc). Even in Return of the King, the Orcs were shown to have their own personalities and weren’t exactly excited about attacking Gondor again. Even in Two Towers, we see the different personalities of Uruk-hai and the Morder Orcs, so it only makes sense to flesh that out further. It adds such an amazing dimension to Adar’s character and the Orcs he cares for and makes us realize that nothing in Tolkien’s world is black and white.

a. Also, also, I love that these writers embrace the fact that Elves are not impartial and they’re hypocritical bastards haha. Of course, they say dwarves and men are covetous and can’t be trusted. Of course, Orcs are irredeemable. To suggest otherwise would jeopardize their own world view. And the Elves have never been covetous or committed genocide for stupid gems. Nope, not ever.

b. Also, also, also love the idea that the Orcs are doomed because they’re convinced Eru will never forgive them, even if they were to ask for it. Such an interesting dilemma to add to the lore. I mean even Sauron considered asking for forgiveness but didn’t because of his pride. If the Valar forgave Morgoth once, and potentially considered pardoning Sauron, who says they wouldn’t forgive the creatures he and Morgoth twisted/corrupted/made?

12. Love Sauron “befriending” the warg. See even the Dark Lord likes dog.

13. Goodbye Waldreg, no one will miss you.

14. Who knew Benjamin Walker had such a nice voice?

15. I’m so surprised Elrond didn’t just completely lose it and go all rabid animal when Cirdan brought back the rings.

16. It’s so funny that this version of Galadriel gets a ring of power. Out of all the Elves to get one, she’s on the bottom of my list. At least make sure she’s Sauron free first.

17. DISA YOU ARE MY QUEEN AND GODDESS!!!

18. LOVE the dwarves.

19. “You don’t have to make this harder than it already is” YES I DO BITCH BECAUSE YOU’RE BEING A STUBBORN GOAT

20. Love that Disa can call out both her father-in-liaw (and king) and her husband for being jackasses

21. Also Durin III stop being a jackass and go apologize to your son, right now

22. Resonating is still so fucking awesome

23. Love the agricultural in Khazad dum

24. I know I was the odd man out because I didn’t mind the Harfoots last season, but I really adore the Stranger’s relationship with Nori.

25. I REALLY hope the Stranger is a blue wizard, but either way I love how Daniel Weyman plays a wizard. And it’s nice he can talk this season and we get a sense of his humor and sass.

26. “Further, Nori” *sigh of exasperation*

27. I have no idea who the hell this evil wizard is nor who the hell his moth minions are, but I love them. They’re so weird.

28. This guy better NOT be Saruman. -_-

29. Poppy! My lesbian Harfoots are reunited!

30. Celebrimbor *sigh* oh, Celebrimbor

31. Elrond “sand the anger away, Sand the anger away.”

32. LOVE the look Galadriel gives Elrond when he calls her out about NOT being manipulated. “He gave you everything you wanted”. True, but also damn, haha.

33. Seriously, I NEED whatever drug Cirdan is smoking.

34. Also love how in this show “yeah, let’s give the rings a try. What’s the worst that can happen” and in LOTR it’s “NO! DO NOT TRUTST THE RING! DESTROY IT ASAP”

35. I can’t believe Halbrand made it rain just so he can look more like a pathetic cat

36. Ok, that umbrella is ridiculous and super impractical.

37. Celebrimbor, honey, the whole “I won’t stay where I’m not wanted” is the oldest trick in the manipulator’s handbook.

38. I love the rollercoaster Celebrimbor goes on as Halbrand “confesses” that he’s not really a man. The utter confusion but also concern, like “my god is this man having a mental breakdown in my forge? And right when I was about to open a bottle of first age wine. Where’s Galadriel when I need her? She should be taking care of her pet human, not me.”

39. NOT THE FIRST AGE WINE!!!

40. I LOVE the reveal of Annatar. It was so over the time and beautiful and so religious. No notes. Absolutely perfect.

41. I was never on team silvergifting, but this show has converted me.

42. Also Charlie Vickers and Charles Edwards are giving their ALL in these scenes

43. Love that Celebrimbor is like “ew, no, we can’t give men rings” but when Annatar tells him that Gil-Galad “doesn’t trust the dwarves” Celebrimbor takes it so personally. Like I think it’s because he’s annoyed with Gil-Galad and he wants to control his own forge, but it also sounds like he’s offended that Gil-Galad would insult his new dwarf buddies (who helped him build the new forge to begin with).

44. Durin proving himself the wisest of all peoples (not just dwarves) when he calls Annatar out on his bullshit

45. “Elrond would never say such nice things about me.”

46. Also love all the clever insults and phrases the dwarves have.

47. I’m still very angry with Durin III but I felt that line, “Miner’s punches hurt” “Just wait until your children grow up.”

48. ALSO, Durin III you bastard, your son tells you he DOESN’T trust the rings and you decide, “yeah, let me try out these rings” -_-

a. Also, yes, Celebrimbor and Annatar fucked before, during, and after making the dwarven rings.

49. Oh, Isildur, you disaster child.

a. Again, I might be in the minority here, but I LOVE what they’re doing with Isildur’s character – the perpetual screw-up, the one who tries so hard but can’t do anything right, the character who’s constantly trying to prove himself in a family that is already overly impressive. Makes his final fate just that more tragic.

50. Spider babies. Spider babies. Spider babies.

a. Reminded me of the facehugger birthing scenes from the Aliens franchise for some reason.

51. Super Berek! Here to save the day

52. So, I guess all the men in Aragorn’s bloodline were saved by their horses at least once. Good to know.

53. LOVE the entire ridiculous exchange between Isildur and Estrid.

54. God damn it, Isildur, don’t go to the funeral, save Berek!

55. ☹ Poor Arondir. RIP Bronwyn.

56. Fucking Theo

57. God damn it Arondir, maybe look around next time before telling one kid his family will be reunited in front of the one kid who’s lost his entire family XD

58. “Men can’t build things like that” ☹

59. So, Theo is going to be Isildur’s right hand man and/or will be a ringwraith, right?

60. Operation rescue Berek!

61. Ents? Are those Ents?

62. MIRIEL MY OTHER GODDESS AND QUEEN!!!

63. My brother and I when that woman slapped Miriel: “OFF TO JAIL WITH YOU!”

64. Fucking Earien. Kemen is soooo not worth it

65. Fucking Pharazon.

a. ALSO, love how the writers captured men’s creepy behavior around women in power, especially if they’re “not perfect”. Like when Miriel’s father was alive Pharazon was somewhat respectful around her, but my god that scene in her bedroom? So disgusting and creepy. AND fucking Kemen, “she was blinded while fighting Orcs and surviving a massive eruption. She can’t be queen now” Bitch you couldn’t even sabotage a handful of boats by yourself.

66. Also, also, I know everyone loves Haladriel, but can we talk about the other idiotic couple pining over each other: Elendil and Miriel? Love their dynamic sooooo much.

67. Ok Miriel’s coronation dress is GORGEOUS!

68. That poor eagle was so fucking confused. Like I came here for Miriel, not sure what you all are doing. Ok, this is awkward, I’m flying away now.

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

I hear people point out that Catra's redemption arc is 'incomplete' as a means of excusing criticism.

Which, is the exact OPPOSITE of how this shit works?

We are taught this in FIRST GRADE. If you write something, you have to wrap it up! Like. A. Bow.

If Catra's redemption is 'incomplete' that means it was poorly written, and combine that with the other consequences of her arc's bad writing and you can see why people dunk on her character.

There is the option of an open-ending for a character but that requires you to do your damndest, which evidently is something that the writers didn't do, and something that 90% of the fandom doesn't realize.

i agree and disagree with this. i do think that some arcs can be left open-ended, but you have to show the beginning, at least. you can't leave an arc open-ended when there isn't an arc to begin with. you have to write some of it effectively so that the audience knows that the arc has begun and will likely have a successful ending, even if the ending is not shown on-screen.

(pardon me as i go on a long tangent about my favorite show. infinity train spoilers ahead!)

the best example of this that i have is Grace from Infinity Train. her redemption arc was definitely incomplete because by the end of the season, she still had a high number that she had to slowly work on reducing so that she could get off the train. she was by no means a fully redeemed character.

BUT we actually see her putting in effort to change! we see at least 50% of the process as she slowly begins to warm up to Hazel and Tuba, as she begins to realize how wrong her worldview was and the harm that she's been doing to the denizens, and as she starts reprimanding Simon and trying to motivate him to redeem himself like she was doing.

the other thing is that Grace doesn't get forgiven by her victims. Hazel leaves after Grace lashes out at her, and the narrative doesn't act like Grace is entitled to forgiveness as soon as she cries and apologizes. she has to deal with the fact that she hurt Hazel and there's no undoing that.

Grace: (...) Hazel is part of that group now. We don't leave Apex behind.

Grace: Hazel, you're sticking with us.

Hazel: I don't want to go with you.

Grace: Huh? It's okay. We can work around the denizen thing.

Hazel: I'm not going with you!

Hazel: You said the Apex is supposed to be brave. But if that's true, why are you all so... scared of me?

(...)

Amelia: (...) but I am not your caretaker.

Hazel: Grace and Simon weren't either.

(...)

Grace: Hazel, it's not too late to change your mind.

Hazel: Good luck, Grace.

keep in mind, this was a child. probably about 8-9 years old. the writers could have just made her forgiven Grace and said “well she's young, children don't hold grudges”. but they didn't. they acknowledged how much Grace hurt Hazel and they allowed Hazel to stay upset at Grace.

same goes for Simon. while Simon became the bigger villain in the end, Grace was the one who instilled the cult mindset in him in the first place and he never forgives her. he does eventually cause his own demise in the end, but we're not made to believe that Grace was entirely blameless in all of this.

in short, Grace doesn't get a happily ever after, but her arc does end on a hopeful note. regardless of whether people forgive her or not, she decides to continue working on improving herself.

this is how you write an incomplete redemption arc. you have to make the viewers believe that this character wants to change, and you need to hold them accountable for their actions. you can't just have all their victims forgive them despite the fact that they're still an asshole, and then tell us that their arc isn't over yet. how would the arc be over if it hasn't even started?

[mybrainproblems]

can you expand on what you mean about 12x22 and berens? i’ve never really looked at the writer patterns before but i’m intrigued

so jensen did a solo panel at JIB 8 in 2017 and an earlier question prompted him to recount his experience having difficulty connecting with the mary & dean relationship in s12 and the character motivation behind it. (and i think he's correct in saying that fans picked up on him not gelling with it which actually works in some episodes but feels off in others.)

anyway! berens was on-set when they were filming 12x22 "who we are" and jensen told him "oh god i get it now!" with the "i hate you, i forgive you" speech (that dean's character arc was him needing to forgive mary) and berens had no idea what he was talking about.

hopefully this embedded correctly to start at the right time code, but if not, he starts talking about it at 19:45

which yes, there's the possibility that berens was just yanking jensen's chain* about not realizing the "i hate you, i forgive you" was the thesis of mary & dean's relationship arc in s12. but also i really am inclined to believe he didn't realize he'd tied up the whole arc bc berens has been such a chronic dean misunderstander over the years. like folks will talk about dean as the "angry man" in late seasons and... that's mostly berens, baby!**

and i know you didn't ask but this is why the confession falls so flat for me. it rings hollow bc this is the writer who has done more than anyone else in the last few seasons to make dean an un-likeable prick. i do like the confession as a radical act of self-love (that "having" doesn't matter and "being" is more important) but as cas confessing his love to dean? yeah, i just can't buy it given the other stuff berens wrote over the years and the narrative framing is just off. much like the finale, it's tragedy wearing an ill-fitting ballgown and looking in a fun house mirror.

so, in summary (x)

* this is a bit unkind, but jensen is such a consummate pro that i would not be surprised if the "maybe he was yanking my chain" was a way to save face for berens since jensen has disagreed with him on his episodes before.

** i did not jive with 14x20 "moriah" until i re-watched it without the baggage of 14x18 before it (14x19 isn't great but does set up the "logic" of dean's actions in 14x20; never 5get that cas wanted to put jack in the cage... how is that different from a ma'lak box?). i think berens was just not a good fit for spn and especially not the direction they were going in during dabb era. i'm not a big fan of him in carver era either but he fit the vibes and direction way better.

[leathr-blr]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa did you see the new pnf short?

this is news to me. i’ve been focusing on my mental health (playing red dead redemption 2 and nothing else) for the past week so i’ve been offline but i gotta check this out…

what

i am so hype for this. i love it so much. it is amazing and i want more right now. please don’t read under the cut there’s definitely not a multi paragraph conspiracy theory underneath

I AM NOT ACCUSING ANYONE OF ANYTHING… i am just SAYING MY PEACE

us shippers are rejoicing, as we rightfully should, at this amazing w. but i just gotta be that one guy, i gotta poop on the party. could this be bordering into… and forgive me for uttering these words… queerbaiting?

i know the idea of being queerbaited by an evil scientist man and a secret agent playtpus is ridiculous and hilarious, but r we getting johnlocked just a little bit? maybe just a little…. because i’ve always been of the opinion that perryshmirtz will most likely never be a canon storyline for a bunch of reasons, and as much as i’d like that to happen, i can see how some oblivious straight people (so… probably a lot of the writers let’s be real) could reasonably watch all of phineas and ferb and think there’s absolutely nothing homoromantic going on between the two of them. like of course there’s jokes about them being like couple in the same way we get it for buford and bajeet, but, at least when it was airing at the time that it was, that was neverrr going to be acknowledged as anything but funny funny haha joke. like i love dwampy but this show is not crowned for its thoughtful and progressive takes there is SOOOOO much racial stereotyping and ignorant shit in pnf. relationships between two men were not going to hold the same narrative weight as a hetero relationship

so yes i think it’s a bit of a stretch to say pnf in itself is queerbaiting with perryshmirtz, but THESE SHORTS… this is like……. a lot man it’s a lot man it’s a blessing and a curse. i hope it’s just a couple folks who like perryshmirtz putting those bits for funsies but i’m getting suspicious. i’m raising my eyebrows up and down, feeling as if i’m seeing flags of a.. pinkish hue… reddish, perhaps.

and this is disneyyyy cmmmonnn all these hip new queer kid shows? they’re doing pretty good. of course, we aren’t going to ruin our precious precious phineas and ferb IP for the foreign market by putting a gay relationship in the actual show, but it couldn’t hurt to draw in a few tumblr and tiktok queers from our homoromantic little shorts, eh? ehh? it’s a big market, kids aren’t just tuning in on cable tvs anymore to watch phineas and ferb, we need a little more outreach. it’s all about streaming babbbyy it’s all about that disney plus! get those queers watching the new seasons of phineas and ferb when they’re finished binging the owl house!

are you understanding my friends? i am no messiah of perryshmirtz. that’s liz. but maybe, i shall be a mere messenger spreading my annoying takes amongst the land. or maybe it’s not that deep because 8 year olds watching phineas and ferb don’t care. but it’s a free website baybe

[cbrownjc]

As an older fan, I’m starting to get some major Sherlock-vibes from the show, in the sense that fans are coming up with all these big-brained theories to explain weak writing that we have to have faith will come to fruition in some future season. Why make the change to Lestat saving Louis? Why is Louis seemingly stronger than Armand?  Why have the Loustat reunion, only for Louis to leave and challenge the entire vampire world (despite the fact that he’s apparently in a better place mentally-speaking)? Why publish under Daniel’s name, when that would clearly paint a target on his back, especially now that he’s a vampire? What’s going on with Daniel’s eyes?

The whole “spite” thing seems like a clear mis-direct, but with only like 8-ish episodes a season and Dubai-era Devil’s Minion being 100% subtext so far, I don’t think the writing team can do DM justice. All the inconsistencies seem like they’re being written off because it’s the unreliable narrator show, when they’re actually just plot holes.

Like…I 100% think the writing team forgot makers can’t telepathically talk to their fledglings, and that’s why they had to add in the throwaway line of Lestat actually whispering to Louis in 1x02. There was no hidden reason we were meant to find, it was just inconsistent internal logic justified because Louis can’t remember anything correctly.

IDK. I don’t want to be a downer, but a lot of my hype for the show just kinda fizzled out with the finale. I'm still gonna watch S3, but I think I'm just gonna wait til the whole thing comes out this time.

Hi!

So I never watched Sherlock nor was every in that fandom, though I did hear about some things after the fact. So I can't compare it to that fandom. But I can compare things to another book series that was being adapted fandom I was in which was Game of Thrones. And I think wrt things we are at least nowhere near that level of things and theorising. Yet.

Maybe because, unlike ASOIAF all the VC books are written and done. So that's a plus.

And see, the thing is? I can actually see a lot of methods to the madness of some of the things you've listed. Especially given the nature of how the story in the show is told through POVs. Where the issue comes into it is not ever knowing if what you are seeing is true, false, or just an interpretation of the truth -- as in Louis' POV of the play-trial rehearsal.

And I'd really like to know if how they ended this season is how they plan to end every season when a full book has been adapted? Something that wraps up the main character arc and story, but just leaves a host of other questions that, if we weren't getting a Season 3, would have never been answered. And who knows if they will all be answered in Season 3? As far as Devil's Minion goes, or Armand himself, I'm not expecting it to be now, given that Season 3 is The Vampire Lestat adaptation and Armand is a straight-up villain/antagonist in that book and Daniel doesn't appear in it at all, so anything we get with him will be extra anyway.

Now, as to whether Rolin Jones and the writers have a plan, Rolin says he pitched an 8-Season (or so) Arc to AMC before he was given the show to run. So at the moment? That is the only solid thing we have to go on right now wrt if there actually IS a play or not for the show.

But see (and oh boy, please forgive me as am I about to go into a big digression here), plotting a TV show is much harder to do than a book or a movie. TV writing is way more organic given that unforeseen circumstances can occur that you've never planned for when you go into a new season of TV production. Such as the studio asking you to split the first book you're adapting into 2 seasons instead of one, leaving you with only a month to rewrite the scripts. Or, a writer's strike and then an actors' strike a few weeks later, delaying production for months. Both of which happened to IWTV wrt Season 1 and then Season 2.

So organic things beyond the show's control are why it is much harder to plan out every little detail of a TV show in advance over multiple seasons. Take another AMC show, Breaking Bad. It's known that Season 2 of that show was intricately plotted out in advance but then, after that, the writers plotted and wrote the rest of the show as things came along for the remaining seasons, with no grand design to it -- even though the creator of the show, Vince Gilligan, knew way in advance how the show was going to end. And the show was able to get there, to that ending, without having a meticulous plan over seasons on how to do so.

I mean, the character of Jesse on Breaking Bad was originally supposed to die at the end of the first season. But instead, he lived through the whole damn thing. That was not planned at all.

And I think that might very well be the situation we have going here wrt IWTV. I think there are larger things they already know in advance about the show -- which books out of all of them will adapted into full stories vs which will only get references. Which characters in the show will make it into the show as full characters vs which characters will either be cut or combined with other existing characters (as Sam Ried revealed in his interview with Autumn Brown that that is going to happen -- that some characters will be combined with others). And what end point they want each of the main four characters -- Louis, Lestat, Armadn, and Daniel -- to be at when they get to at least Season 8. (If not Season 10, which is what AMC wants, 10 seasons). I think those are things Rolin and the writers very much know.

But I don't think the show has every single little detail plotted out for every little thing wrt how they are going to get to certain things. Not super far in advance at any rate.

I do think they'll purposefully put in seeds for later -- that they very much know they are going to need later -- though I think at most they do it one season ahead if it's a little thing. I very much do think that is what the things from episodes 1x02 and 1x03 very much were, since Season 1 and 2 were supposed to just be one season originally. Or the fight in 1x05 only being shown from Claudia's POV. I think that was also deliberate and they are very much planning on visiting it once again in Season 3, as they did in Season 2.

But I also think there are some things the show has not plotted way in advance and only figured out when they are writing that particular episode. Or maybe just decided to do that season as they were writing it, and not before then. Just like how almost every other TV show works, even ones that might very well know the ending they are working toward.

So I in no way think the show has figured and plotted out every single moment and beat of Armand and Daniel's relationship. Why? Not only because much of it happened in the past -- which yes I very much still think it did -- which covers 12 years of time, but because if you look at this clip, Rolin Jones kind of hints that they haven't plotted it out completely point for point even though there are some things they've thought and figured out:

video credit: Rei Gorrei on Twitter

So as far as Devil's Minion goes, I think Rolin and Co -- mostly Rolin -- has an endpoint for it in mind. But how they get to that endpoint is probably not planned out to the letter, super far in advance. And something they very likely just come up with as they are writing that particular season. At most? I'd say they've put things in this season that will be relevant next season and that's it.

So, I'm not going to say they can't do it justice. Not yet. I frankly don't have enough data to call that in a yes or no fashion since we haven't seen anything adapted from it aside from the 3-4 days Daniel spent in a cage, which is just the very start of how Devil's Minion begins. Basically one or two paragraphs. That's all they've really adapted when it comes to it at the moment.

And hey, it's okay if you feel down about all of this. If it helps, I'd say try and take a pragmatic approach to the show season by season, and if you feel it's better to binge it than watch it episode by episode for a time, that's good too. This is going to be a long journey after all.

[srim01997]

The Red Princess & The Green Knight | Gwayne H. x OFC

Paring: Gwayne Hightower x Alyssan Targaryen (OC), Slight Aemond “One-Eye” Targaryen x Alyssan Targaryen (OC), Eventual Gwayne Hightower x Alyssan Targaryen (OC)

Fandom: House of The Dragon (HBO)

Warning: Angst, Implied Violence, Canon Divergence, Child Lost mentioned, House of The Dragon Season 2 Ep.2 spoiler, DV mentioned, Dub-con mentioned

Writer’s note: NSFW will be coming soon ;)

Previous Chapter | The Red Princess & The Green Knight| Next Chapter

Chapter 8 The Princess’s request

“I will not allow his body to be paraded through the streets!” Alyssan declared through tears as she sat beside Arron, her trembling hands brushing through her son’s fiery hair. She had just learned of Otto’s proposal to display the bodies of Jaehaerys and Vaegon around the city before their funeral at the Dragonpit. The plan also called for her and Helaena to accompany the procession, a ploy to garner the public’s sympathy and paint Rhaenyra as a monster. “I won’t let them pity me or Helaena. And she wouldn’t allow her children to be treated this way either. Have you ever asked Aegon?”

Alicent said nothing and turned to leave, her silence cutting deeper than any retort. Moments later, Aemond entered the room. His face betrayed no clear emotion—anger, guilt, or grief.

But Alyssan didn’t hesitate. She stormed toward him and struck him hard across the face. Ser Criston moved as if to intervene but faltered under her glare.

“Stay out of my business with my husband, Ser Criston!” she hissed, pointing a shaking finger at him. “Where were you? Sleeping soundly while monsters entered my sister’s chamber? They severed my nephew’s head, and my son’s head, right in front of me and Arron. You call yourself Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, but every time you vanish, disaster strikes!”

“Forgive me, Princess—”

“Forgive you?” Alyssan’s voice broke into a guttural shout, her fury like a storm unleashed. 

Aemond had never seen her so enraged, though he understood why. They had just buried their youngest child. And while Arron still lived, Aemond knew the boy was not truly his. He had long kept the secret that Arron was Gwayne’s son, the result of an affair his wife had concealed with their uncle. He clasped his hands behind his back, schooling his expression into cold composure.

“I, too, grieve, my love,” he said finally. “But you should honor our mother’s wishes.”

“What did you say?” Alyssan’s voice cracked, incredulous. “You want me to ride in that cursed procession, dragging Vaegon’s body through the streets? Do you know how humiliating that is? Last night, you should have been there to protect me and the children.”

“You should have protected them,” Aemond replied coolly.

Alyssan’s tears fell faster as she pulled her gown aside, exposing the healing gash on her neck. “Do you see this, Aemond? They held a blade to my throat while they beheaded our son. And where were you? Rolling in some brothel while your wife and children were left to die! Do you know what they said? ‘An eye for an eye, a son for a son.’ They demanded retribution for what you did at Storm’s End. For Luke.”

Aemond remained silent. She was right. Yet it wasn’t entirely his fault—what happened with Lucerys had been an accident, a tragedy born of circumstance. He reached out, placing his hands on her trembling shoulders. Lowering his head, he pressed his forehead to the curve of her neck, inhaling her scent as if it could absolve him.

“You should go,” he whispered. “Let them see what they’ve done to you and our family.”

“You’re asking me to let them parade Vaegon’s body?” Her voice broke, raw with pain. “No mother should ever have to endure that. Not me, not Helaena—she would never agree.”

His grip on her shoulders tightened, and he leaned in to murmur in her ear, his voice low and unyielding. “Do it, Alyssan. Tonight, I promise, I’ll stay by your side. Where is Arron?”

“With Ser Gwayne,” she replied bitterly, her lips trembling as she met his gaze. “He’s taken him riding.”

Aemond smiled at the corner of his mouth before saying, "Then we have time to do it before you join the funeral." The tall figure grabbed her leaning against the windowsill before pulling up her skirt and moving between her legs. Alyssan closed her eyes when she heard him untie his pants to insert them inside her.

Her slender hand gripped the window sill as he moved around. But she didn't want to—no, she thought more about other people than she did when she was made love with Aemond. The figure flinched as he moved out and walked out of the room, letting the other person organize herself.

Dressed in black with a lace veil draped over her fiery hair, Alyssan emerged from her chambers with an air of solemnity. Outside, she found Ser Gwayne cradling her son, Arron, who giggled softly at the knight’s gentle play. Alyssan leaned in, pressing a tender kiss to her son’s forehead, and without a word, turned to climb into the waiting carriage.

The procession began to move, the slow creak of wheels carrying the weight of grief through the city streets. The bodies of Jaehaerys and Vaegon, now sewn together by silent septas, lay on a cart ahead, their youthful forms lifeless.

“Behold Rhaenyra the Cruel!”

Villagers lined the streets, their reactions a mix of sorrow and outrage. Some wept at the sight of the young princes, their hearts aching for the princess and queen. Others hissed curses toward Rhaenyra’s name. But the mournful march halted abruptly as the wheels of the carts sank into a muddy rut. Guards struggled to free them, and the crowd surged closer, their desperation palpable. Helaena shrank into herself, her discomfort turning to visible distress. She looked ready to weep, but Alicent pulled her into a comforting embrace, shielding her daughter’s anguish from the prying eyes of onlookers.

Alyssan, watching her mother’s uncharacteristic tenderness, bit back her tears. Never had she been held like this. Swallowing her emotions, she remained stoic until the procession reached the Dragonpit. There, waiting septons prepared for the funeral rites of the Targaryen princes according to their ancient customs.

As her dragon emerged, its powerful form moving toward the pyre, Alyssan stood tall despite the weight in her chest. When she whispered, “Dracarys,” flames engulfed the bodies, reducing them to ash. She turned, enveloping her weeping sister in an embrace, her lilac eyes fixed on the inferno that consumed their son.

Back at the Red Keep, the somber mood persisted. Alicent retreated to her chambers, leaving Alyssan and Helaena to ascend the stairwell together. Helaena paused abruptly when they encountered Aegon, who said nothing. They exchanged only tense glances before continuing in opposite directions. Alyssan escorted her sister to her chambers before returning to her own.

Upon entering, she found Gwayne seated on the floor, playing with Arron. The boy’s laughter filled the room as his small hands reached for the toy dragon Gwayne held. The knight, clad in a simple green tunic and black trousers, looked up at her with a smile.

“Uncle,” Alyssan teased, leaning against the doorframe, “do you have nothing better to do?”

“Can I not play with my grandson?” Gwayne chuckled. “He has Hightower blood, after all. That red hair—just like his grandmother’s.”

Alyssan almost told him the truth—that Arron was not merely his grandson but his son. But it was not the time. Instead, she seated herself beside the boy and glanced at the unfamiliar toy.

“Did you buy this for him?” she asked.

“For all my nephews and nieces,” Gwayne replied with a wistful smile. “I’m sorry about Vaegon. He and Jaehaerys didn’t deserve this.”

“They said, ‘A son for a son,’” Alyssan murmured bitterly, her hand tightening around the toy.

A sudden commotion interrupted them as Anna burst into the room. “Princess! His Grace has ordered the execution of rat-catchers!”

“What?” Alyssan’s voice sharpened, and she rose to her feet. “Was this Otto’s idea?”

Anna shook her head. Alyssan’s lips pressed into a thin line. “Mitty (idiot),” she muttered, storming toward the door. “Watch Arron, Anna. I’m going to talk to him.”

Alyssan found Aegon in his chambers, speaking with Otto. Her sharp eyes noticed the absence of the Hand’s pin. “Grandfather,” she began, her tone sharp, “Has he dismissed you?”

Otto’s face twisted in frustration. “Your brother is a fool, Alyssan. If you were a man, things would be simpler. You have everything Aegon lacks—”

“And I told you not to put an idiot on the throne,” she interrupted. “Who replaces you? Larys?”

“Criston Cole.”

“Perfect. We’re doomed. I need to talk to him”

"No, Alyssan, I'll go to High Garden to negotiate with the Tyrells to join us." The former king's hand said before walking back to his room. Alyssan brushed past him and pushed open the door to Aegon’s inner chambers.

“I warned you, Aegon! Stop making foolish, impulsive decisions!”

She shoved him against the wall with enough force to rattle the furniture. Ser Criston moved to intervene, but her glare froze him in place. “Don’t you dare? Leave us, or I’ll toss you out the window myself.”

Turning her fury back to Aegon, she spat, “Killing rat-catchers? Are you insane? Do you think this will ease your grief? Vaegon is dead, and Jaehaerys too—but this? This will make people loathe you even more, perhaps more than Rhaenyra!”

Aegon smirked through the pain. “Criston has already handled it. He’s sent someone to assassinate the whore at Dragonstone.”

“Really?” Alyssan sneered. “And who did he send?”

“Ser Erryk Cargyll,” Aegon replied smugly. “No one will suspect him.”

“Fool,” she snapped, pressing her foot harder against him. “And if he fails? What happens when Daemond finds out someone tried to kill his wife? He’ll take your head—or Helaena’s. Maybe mine. Think, Aegon, think!”

She released him with a frustrated growl and stormed out, slamming the door. Criston hesitated before asking, “Shall I deal with her, Your Grace?”

“No,” Aegon replied, rubbing his bruised ribs. “We fought as siblings do. She’s my twin. Only I have the right to kill her, Ser Criston.”

Alyssan sat by her son’s bedside, watching over him as he drifted into a peaceful sleep. The faint rise and fall of his tiny chest brought her a fleeting sense of calm, though her thoughts wandered elsewhere. She glanced toward the door, frowning. Why hadn’t Aemond come to her chambers tonight? 

Curiosity gnawed at her until she called for a servant boy, who hesitated before revealing that the prince had once again slipped away to the Silk Street. Alyssan closed her eyes, rubbing her temples in frustration before shifting her gaze back to her son. Guilt simmered beneath her skin, but a deeper ache made her restless.

Turning to her handmaiden, Anna, she asked, “Can you watch my son for a while?”

“Of course, Your Grace,” Anna replied with a knowing smile. “Take as long as you need. I’ll tell the prince you’ve gone for a walk in the gardens and wish not to be disturbed.”

Alyssan hesitated, then nodded. “Thank you, Anna.”

Slipping out of the room, she moved swiftly toward a hidden passage. She had discovered the secret corridors through one of Maegor the Cruel’s old texts and often used them to slip away unnoticed. Tonight, her destination was clear—Ser Gwayne’s chambers. She knew where to find him; she always did.

Dressed in nothing but her nightgown, Alyssan made her way down the passageway, her heart thudding in her chest. Finally, she reached a vantage point where she could peer into the room through a narrow slit in the stone wall. The sight of a green cloak draped casually over a chair confirmed her suspicions, but Gwayne was nowhere in sight.

Disheartened, she turned to leave, only to feel the sudden press of a broad chest against her back and a strong arm sliding possessively around her waist.

“And where do you think you’re going, Alyssan?” a familiar voice murmured.

She spun around to face him, her breath hitching as her gaze met Gwayne’s. His dark hair was damp, droplets of water sliding down the sharp planes of his face. He had just bathed, and the musky scent of soap lingered faintly in the air. He wore only a pair of trousers, his torso bare and glistening.

Once, she might have blushed, but tonight her need burned hotter than any embarrassment. Without a word, she stepped closer and kissed him with a fervor that left no room for hesitation. Her lithe body pressed against his, her nightgown absorbing the moisture from his skin.

“Gwayne,” she whispered, her voice trembling as her fingers curled against his shoulders. “I need you.” The way she addressed him—like a lover, not a niece—sent a spark through him. “Please…”

The knight’s jaw clenched, his arms encircling her waist. “Are you certain, Alyssan? Because once we start, I won’t stop until you’re left voiceless.”

“I’m certain,” she breathed, her lilac eyes locking onto his.

Gwayne’s restraint snapped as he claimed her lips again, his hands mapping her curves as if to memorize every inch. For once, she didn’t care about propriety or consequences. If the gods wanted to punish her, let them. They had never shown her their favor, and tonight, she would take what little joy she could grasp.

TBC.

[blazinghotfoggynights]

I hope the 9-1-1 TPTB bring the drama.

There. I said it. I want to see angst, struggling, emotional turmoil, crying, maybe a few holes punched in the wall, again, screaming, arguing. Everything.

They have been freed from the conservative prison that is the you know what network. Why not go big or go home?

Now, some people will say read this and say I'm messy.

Okay. If you think that bothers me, good for you. (It doesn't. IRL, I am the most drama-free, non-confrontational person ever, but I like my entertainment to be a runaway rollercoaster. Don't keep it mentally stable and happy. So boring.)

I've been pretty open about wanting Buddie endgame. But we don't have to take the romantic, sweet, easy route. We can go offroad, turn on the 4x4, and hit the bumps full speed.

So, if Minear and crew (or Oliver and Ryan *waves*) see this, let me throw some messy ideas your way. You want mayhem and chaos? Let's look for some!

Everything below can be supported by canon up to ep 7x5.

1- Have Eddie question why his romantic interactions with women are always forced, initiated or encouraged by someone else, and unfulfilling. Shannon pursued him. Ana was there and familiar. Marisol was there and familiar. Eddie never pursues women due to good old basic attraction. He falls into relationships with those who send him signals they like him and are kind of shameless and thirsty.

We have NEVER seen Eddie actually genuinely excited to go on a date or spend time with a woman. There was always some ulterior reason. He was trying to give Christopher the stable home he thought his son deserved, or Bobby gave some cryptic advice, or Buck said Natalia is the only person who sees him. Ahem.

But Eddie was was all smiles to go hang out with Tommy. The man was bouncing. Bouncing! And every time he has hung out with Buck, he's relaxed and happy. Ijs.

2- I want to remind you that you created the character of Tommy Kinard, so his canonical history is not fandom's ideas. *points to show writers* They did it!

Tommy is canonically a racist, misogynist dbag. (See Hen Begins.) Sure, you can say he did it to fit in, but that also makes him a hypocrite now. He was always the first to follow in the former captain's footsteps when harassing Hen. Tommy wasn't a kid. He knew what he was doing was totally wrong and chose to be racist, misogynist, and possibly homophobic. I mean, I see that you have Hen and Chim forgiving him, which is fodder for a whole different post on retconning, backtracking, the forgiveness from minorities trope etc, but I digress.

I have always lived by the rule that when people show me who they are, I believe them. If you wanted to refer back to past Tommy Kinard, you could make him a total dbag.

It was obvious in 7x3 Tommy was not into Buck. At all. He didn't acknowledge Buck at all until Buck grabbed him. He barely spared Buck a glance when Buck grabbed his arm, pushing Buck's hand away, then looking back toward the direction Eddie exit the scene. That man was blinded by Eddie, who, see number 1, didn't give him the time of day. You could build on that and bring massive amounts of drama and pain.

3- If you really want to blow minds, have fandom go into a collective meltdown, be edgy, and create a storyline that would open the doors to all the main characters being involved, new bonds being cemented between characters who rarely interact, and serious emotional wreckage... just hear me out..

Give us an infidelity arc.

There are multiple options for this one. Some are pretty straightforward and relatively tame, such as Eddie and Buck realizing they are completely in love with each other and kissing, and some are just this side of being banished to Skinimax and HBHo, such as uncovering hidden facts that are scandalous, lying, and intentionally misleading others for your own purposes.

Those ideas could lead to enough material for seasons 8, 9, AND 10 if done properly. 😂 Certain watchdog groups and politicians will condemn you, but smart people don't like them anyway.

Fandom, what say you?

If you have an idea not up there, don't be shy about posting it in a response.

P.S.- I will not apologize for loving messiness. If others didn't enjoy watching messy situations, reality TV would not exist. So, I am not alone.

[leavesdriftinginthewind]

Alright, after wallowing in Weyler despair for 8 hours yesterday, one of my friends shook me out of my stupor and helped me realize that all hope is NOT lost.

There was good reason to believe season two was never going to be heavy on Weyler romance anyways. Tyler’s kind of insane, his Hyde side has taken the wheel, we don’t know what it’s like for a Hyde to have to grapple with not having a master, and the writers said that Tyler doesn’t even know what his true feelings for Wednesday ARE right now. He doesn’t know if what he felt for her was real or was manufactured because of Laurel’s command to get close to her. On top of that, Wednesday allowed herself to fall for Tyler only to have her feelings promptly and horrendously crushed. She’s going to be so closed off to romance, and likely so closed off to HIM. She’s not going to want to put herself through any of that again for the foreseeable future.

All that said, it would be kind of crazy to have them not cross paths again in season two, so I assume we WILL be getting Wednesday and Tyler interactions, and they WILL be wrought with tension, because that is just the nature of the relationship at present. Will Jenna WANT it to be interpreted as romantic? Probably not. But does she REALLY have a choice in the matter of how it’s interpreted? No. And it’s a fact that they were romantic, she can’t act like it didn’t happen.

And perhaps they use this season as a way to build a solid, honest, legitimate foundation for Tyler and Wednesday. They DO need to learn to trust each other, for Tyler to genuinely trust Wednesday with his whole heart and for Wednesday to trust him again. Where we are now, Wednesday could HATE him for what he did to her, but she knows that there’s more there and that everything’s not his fault. She’ll need to tap into that funny thing called forgiveness.

And Tyler, poor Tyler is confused and ANGRY and hurt and he has a hatred but he doesn’t know who or what it should be directed at. Wednesday?Nevermore? Laurel? They BOTH need to heal their respective wounds and probably learn to trust each other if they are meant to come together to defeat the s2 big bad. They’ll need to LISTEN to each other’s sides and be open and honest to get to that point. And when the season ends, they have a connection they KNOW is real and genuine and we can grow from there.

And while this is going on, Tyler CAN realize he has romantic feelings for Wednesday and that what he felt for her in s1 was genuine, not manufactured through Laurel’s commands (as the showrunners alluded to wanting to explore in s2). But perhaps as they rebuild their relationship, as Wednesday learns to trust him again, he doesn’t want to jeopardize just HAVING her in his life, so he keeps it quiet. And that’s something that can be explored further in s3.

If this happens, if we watch them rebuild their relationship, basically start from scratch so they’re something solid at the end of s2, then maybe in s3 we can watch it turn romantic again. And then we HAVE the foundation, we WATCHED it get built so folks can’t say “they came out of nowhere,” because they didn’t. We watched them rise and fall and burn and rise again.

Are we being delusional? Maybe. But I’ll hold onto my delusion until they stab me in the gut with whatever garbage is packaged as season 2 (and who really knows when we’ll actually be seeing it anyways with the writers’ strike going on?).