#i waited an eternity for this game

[plinchy]

My Tav (Ellie) and I are down bad for Shadowheart.

She saw Legalt (other player) kiss Wyll after dancing once

Ellie had the same exact date with Shadowheart twice but nothing's official

[val-of-the-north]

My friend @katyspersonal made an interesting observation about the flowers that were once found on the path to Midra's Mense. Here's her post on the matter for reference [x].

The flower connection seems way too meaningful to be accidental, especially since the two people in charge of the Mense are not Hornsent at all...

Now, we can't know for sure whether Midra, Nanaya, or both were Shamans or at least related, but the connection IS there, which I doubt was placed randomly.

But yeah, speaking of Hornsent, they were indeed punished for associating with Midra. As my friend pointed out in an earlier post [x], this dialogue wouldn't fit if it was simply due to the Flame of Frenzy business going on there, especially since the ghost that welcomes us is very well aware of the madness.

It's also worth pointing out that the Madding Hand's face resembles that of the other Hornsent who use player models, meaning his fellows are probably other Hornsent too.

Whoever this group of Hornsent was, it's clear they did not care about his lack of horns and simply served Midra, possibly due to him being wise and knowledgeable...

Either that, or there are ways for people without horns to get privileges and benefits even in Hornsent society. Maybe it is still due to his vast array of knowledge, but it wouldn't be too outlandish to think Midra found ways to be productive to the Hornsent and was thus rewarded for his efforts. Until they grew suspicious of him, of course. But his Hornsent attendants seem rather loyal to him despite that.

Which leads me to a different point regarding Marika herself...

The two Hornsent NPCs that we can actually interact with both mention some sort of betrayal from Marika.

To be betrayed means that there was some semblance of trust between them and her that she broke, which would seem odd at first glance, but we must take into consideration what she did to attain godhood. She had to have reached the Gates of Divinity (as shown in the cinematic trailer), which are found in the holiest, most guarded part of Belurat's tower: Enir-Ilim.

And this must have happened BEFORE the Crusade and Messmer, as evidenced by a few things:

1) The Hornsent mention the Erdtree a bunch, which we know was established after a few different conflicts. At the very least, the war against the Giants must have happened before the Crusade, as the Age of the Erdtree began then.

Marika was also already considered a god at the time, she had a consort in Godfrey, and the Crucible was yet to be seen as heretical due to their employment of Crucible Knights. There's also the very likely possibility that Radagon was spawned from that conflict as a curse of the Giants inflicted upon Marika, which would work to explain where the red hair came from.

It might also tell us WHEN Messmer was born in that case, and speaking of...

2) Messmer's condition, or rather, all the things Marika had done for his sake, seem to have happened AFTER the establishment of the Erdtree, as they feature heavy gold and tree motifs. To have control of Grace so great that she could create the rune she most likely gave to Messmer strongly hints at her having already become a god.

The Blessing of Marika also fits the criteria of a thing she had to have made after her ascension to godhood because of its heavy arboreal theme and the fact that two Tree Sentinels (who defend her home village) are holding onto them as well, further hinting at the existence of the Erdtree by this point in time.

Both of these items relate to Messmer and both of their descriptions already identify Marika as a Queen. I wonder if this means Marika returned to her home one last time after she became a god as opposed to when she started her journey toward divinity. Her last acknowledgment of her past before leaving it behind forever.

3) Messmer was also friends with Gaius, who studied with Radahn, and they were both like older brothers to him.

This means the Crusade and Messmer's banishment could not have happened earlier than many years AFTER the Liurnian wars, as evidenced by the presence of the Carian kids. This point is also strengthened by Rellana being close to Messmer and having to prove her loyalty to the Erdtree in ritual combat.

This means that Marika reaching the Gates of Divinity and the Crusade happened at two different points in time, which seems to align with how the Hornsent word things. She betrayed them, then set them ablaze.

What's left to wonder is HOW it happened. I think it was either:

A) She waged a first war against them with the aid of Hoarax Loux (not Godfrey yet, as there was no reason to conduct himself as a lord), his clan, and the Crucible Knights to consolidate her godhood. Maliketh could have also been involved. The Hornsent, then, simply see being supplanted as a betrayal regardless of whether they knew about Marika or not, or...

B) She found a sneakier way to get there through careful planning and climbing the social ladder of Hornsent society, maybe with contact and guidance from the Two Fingers. If the latter is true, I assume she still had Maliketh's support and Hoarax Loux on speed dial for whenever the chance to claim divinity arrived, as she would still need a consort for that and we know he was her first husband.

Both ideas are compelling to me and make sense in their own right. Still, the thought that she could have actually infiltrated their society and made them trust her just to usurp and double-cross them feels very fascinating, especially since the Hornsent specifically mention Marika betraying them. It makes me wonder what Tower society is really like to non-horned people since some Hornsent can even become very loyal to those with an explicit lack of horns.

Marika's betrayal could also explain why the Inquisition would later turn on Midra despite him seemingly having enjoyed some levity or respect in the past. Perhaps they believed he'd pull a similar stunt to Marika's (or maybe they acted that way because he was directly related to her? idk honestly)... though their preventive actions inadvertently caused even more problems by having the resulting despair attract the Three Fingers to what would become the Abyssal Woods.

Of course, it's unclear if the Mense's downfall happened before, after, or concurrently with Marika's path to divinity, but I think it's worth considering as an option at least!

[bg3-dyes]

mutilated carapace dyes? 😚👉👈

didn't know it was called that

[cabesswtaer]

every day I wake up and then I realize that tsc2 is not out yet and my day is ruined

[eruscreaminginthedistance]

[neproxrezi]

playing a ye olde fromsoft horror game called kuon and i adore how long they've stuck to their guns that nobody needs to move their mouth while they speak

they're nothing if not consistent

[acnhplatea]

a rainy night at the train station 🚈☔

[lunillum]

Girl, be real

[sebek-zigbolt]

gueh, its all igni

[ryonello]

anyone dehydrated ? 🌊

[useless-and-confused]

Something that I see a lot of people post about is new marika lore from the dlc (which I haven't played yet, I don't know the new lore) which apparentely makes her more sympathetic and more understandable, which is very cool. What I don't like is how very often a lot of people associated considering Marika a bad person a product of mysoginy, but like for the information we have in the base game she is awful, like legitemately horrible, I like her cause I like evil women, of course there were some actual mysoginists in that discourse but defining everyone like that seems excessive, I like her but I think she's horrible, from what we knew from the base game my girl was a borderline nazi, again apparentely the dlc explores a more sympathetic part of her which is neat I don't know what it is yet but I can't wait to discover more about her.

[theoneprecioustome]

Makoto's Soul, Aikoto & "Eternity"

I've been talking about this since at least 2015, but I just realized I've never made a thread to tie everything together.

TL;DR I think that once Makoto's soul is freed from the seal, his soul will move onto "Eternity". I also think Atlus has foreshadowed that his soul and Aigis' will eventually reunite there.

This post will have spoilers from all of the games involving Persona 3. So, here we go!

The Background

We all know that after the events of P3, Liz set out on a mission to "save" Makoto. There has been a lot of theorizing about whether this involves bringing Makoto back to life or not, but to me it's pretty clear that it doesn't. After all, The Answer outright told us that Makoto had a funeral, which means he does not have a physical body to return to anymore.

I think... I'm finally at peace with losing him... Odd... for some reason, the tears are only now coming... I should have attended his farewell... I was so foolish, locking myself away. Looking back, I remember that Metis would cry... To think I had discarded such a basic emotion...

When Liz says that she wants to save him, she means that she wants to save his soul from the fate of being The Great Seal. The reason for this is obvious, as The Answer shows us that in its efforts to get to Nyx, Erebus tries to tear Makoto away from the door.

It goes without saying that Erebus breaking the Seal equals Erebus breaking Makoto's very soul, thus making him disappear forever.

[...] the soul can still be harmed

As such, this is the fate Liz is trying to save him from.

The How

How Liz will attain this wish of hers is anyone's guess. However, one thing is for certain: this miracle can only be attained by joining forces with the rest of the cast.

Pretty much every game that has addressed Liz's journey has set-up this very fact. My personal theory is that once Atlus is ready to retire the "Neo" Persona cast, they will likely reunite the main players in a game where one of the objectives will be to free Makoto's soul from the seal. This way, we will see a fitting conclusion where the bonds forged between each cast will bring forth the miracle that sets Makoto free. But I digress!

Going back to my main point, Liz has been set up to request help from the rest of the cast. However, there is one person Atlus has outright set-up to join Liz in her quest, and that person is Aigis.

This is once again foreshadowed in P3D, where Liz happens to mention her dream right as she is talking to Aigis and Makoto.

So we can be certain that — unless their plans change — Aigis will be one of the main players involved in freeing Makoto's soul from the seal.

Which finally brings me to my actual theory!

Eternity (永遠)

I believe that once Makoto is freed from the seal, his soul will finally be able to move onto the afterlife. As per Persona Q, this is called Eternity.

"Where all life is born and returns to..."

My theory is that Atlus have been setting this up since Persona Q, which was also directed by Hashino — just like Persona 3.

And to give things an Aikoto spin... Aigis just so happens to be the one to ask what "Eternity" is all about. Which is very fitting, because Zen and Rei parallel Aigis' and Makoto to an uncanny degree.

Zen is an otherworldly being (aka, non-human) whose duty brings him to Rei (a human) in order to ferry her to the afterlife. However, one thing leads to another and they lose their memories. They then go on living together, nonethewiser to the truth, and we get things like these:

Zen essentially goes through Aigis' entire character arc, including slowly coming to realize that he has changed and what keeps him by Rei's side isn't duty, but his desire to be there.

The parallels are so strong that (as you can see above) some of their lines are pretty much the same.

Which leads me to this:

Through his bond with Rei, Zen develops an actual soul capable of parting with her to Eternity. And that's what they do at the end of the game.

So this very long parenthesis has been to say: I think we may one day see the same thing for Aikoto.

After all, we have been told multiple times that Aigis is alive now:

It's only natural that once she passes on, her soul will also join the place where all life returns to.

Now, there are a couple of ways in which this could play. If Liz' mission were to take "eons" of time and Aigis' soul is only hanging onto her worn-down body by a thread, then it's likely that she will rest only after Makoto has been saved from his fate, which could lead us to something like this.

If their journey actually takes place only a few years from now, then Aigis will likely stick around until the last of SEES are gone.

Whatever the case, unless Atlus plans change (which is indeed possible, specially considering Makoto's popularity), it seems safe to assume that Aikoto will be eventually reunited there.

[gristlegrinder]

cannot sleep at all which is unfortunate given i have to be up at like 7AM. anyways i think my goal this week is i’m gonna finally set up my OC masterlist for all of my COFD characters. i would start working on it right now because my brain is so activated but i need to BE SLEEPING. MAL.

[wildflowercryptid]

that's so interesting that there's move data for light of ruin in scarvio and that they changed the wording of its description even though it's a signature move for an unreleased event pokémon that you can't even use in battle currently. so interesting. <- ( trying so hard to be normal about this )

[neotula]

started warhammer: rogue trader and i am already infested with a warp entity help

[toestalucia]

i hate being correct