#i try not to get too annoyed at those shippers but

[min-kit]

Okie seeing this take on here but did Lou in any way confirm that bucktommy is a stepping stone to buddie??

No, I don't have the links to anything he's said, but he's been playing nice about buddie cuz ppl have ofc asked him about them (in the way that "hey is bucktommy a stepping stone for buddie" type way), but he's also kinda gently pressed to give bucktommy a chance. Which only makes sense! Like he's an actor, and 911 is one of the most popular scripted series on television right now. He wants to stick around! (I want him to stick around coughs)

People (certain shippers) just like to say everyone has said bucktommy is a stepping stone for buddie when no one has said that at all, and Tim has in fact said that buddie is not in the works right now. Oliver has said that he doesn't even know if he wants buddie to happen, but that he'd be open to the possibility of it should they decide to take the story in that direction (but has also said he doesn't want to tell the story of a man discovering he is bisexual and automatically be seen as having feelings for his male friends).

But people take all of these other things of them going "I could see this [about buddie]" and taking it as a confirmation of things to come for Buck & Eddie when... that's not what they're saying at all.

I've decided not to worry about it & enjoy the ride Tim is going to take us on & considering he keeps calling BuckTommy a "love story" and a "rom-com", well.....

[rosamariaa]

my top 5 favorite book wolfstar moments

this is all for funsies. I'm going to be very honest here: I don't really think wolfstar is implied in the books, but I feel like if I put my shipper googles I CAN prove that those two were, at least, a bit weird about each other!

1. Remus "ideals" going askrew for Sirius:

We have two moments in the books where we see Remus being pretty ruthless when it came to the war, he thinks that if there's a way to put a enemy down then you should do it:

prisioner of azkaban, chapter eighteen:

"You should have realized," said Lupin quietly, "if Voldemort didn't kill you, we would. Good-bye, Peter."

deathly hollows, chapter 5:

Lupin looked aghast. “Harry, the time for Disarming is past! These people are trying to capture and kill you! At least Stun if you aren’t prepared to kill!”

However, when he was talking to Harry about Sirius reciving the dementor's kiss this is what Mr. Lupin has to offer:

prisioner of azkaban, chapter twelve:

[...] Lupin drank a little more butterbeer, then said, "It's the fate that awaits Sirius Black. It was in the Daily Prophet this morning. The Ministry have given the dementors permission to perform it if they find him." [...] "He deserves it," [harry] said suddenly. "You think so?" said Lupin lightly. "Do you really think anyone deserves that?"

This makes me actually go bonkers like... When he found out it was Peter all along he was full on ready to kill him but when he belived it was Sirius doing the same damn thing then suddenly no one deserves it... christ we see you remus lupin, we see you...

2. Moving in thogeter

I don't even have anything to say for this one just.. *gestures vaguely*

Order of the phoenix, chapter 6:

[...] and Lupin, who was staying in the house with Sirius but who left it for long periods to do mysterious work for the Order [...]

It's so funny cos like... he didn't need to do that... no one else is staying there even though it's the order's HQ.

And we know that as poor as Remus is he does have a house (Sirius stays there for a bit at the end of GOF) so he just... moves in... just because. yea.

a little extra scene that it's kinda funny, imagine finding out your teacher and godfather are dating by calling said godfather and said teacher picks up... lol :

Harry opened his eyes to find that he was looking up out of the kitchen fireplace at the long, wooden table, where a man sat poring over a piece of parchment. “Sirius?” The man jumped and looked around. It was not Sirius, but Lupin. “Harry!” he said, looking thoroughly shocked. “What are you — what’s happened, is everything all right?”

3. Remus is Sirius' good boy

Okay I will try not to ramble about this one but... I can't help it. He quite literally calls Remus a good boy you can not make this shit up.

Order of the phoenix, chapter 9:

Sirius, who was right beside Harry, let out his usual barklike laugh. “No one would have made me a prefect, I spent too much time in detention with James. Lupin was the good boy, he got the badge.”

I think what drives me insane about this one is that even though Remus had the same sense of humor as the other boys (although his was quieter and dry), they were a bit different. Sirius himself says that Remus would make them feel ashamed of themselves sometimes and, of course it depends on how you view Sirius, but to me I feel like he is a person that doesn't really put up with things just to please someone and so I feel like if it were a random person he would just go like "Well if you don't like what we do fuck off I guess" but since it was Remus he doesn't get annoyed at all and it makes it seem like he has a soft spot for Remus:

Order of the phoenix, chapter 29:

“Of course he was a bit of an idiot!” said Sirius bracingly. “We were all idiots! Well — not Moony so much,” he said fairly, looking at Lupin, but Lupin shook his head.

likeee that's his boy!!

4. Giving harry a joint present

You see, this one is very funny to me bc I was watching Sex and the city a few weeks ago and there's a scene where Carrie takes Mr. Big as her plus one to a wedding and of course she asks him to put his name on the present and he just. refuses. He has several commitment issues and even tho they were together for months at that point he thought a joint present "was too much".

And naturally my first thought was "oh wow that's so crazy bc in the children's book series 'Harry Potter', harry's godfather and teacher gave him a joint present without second thought". After moving in together. yea.

Order of the phoenix, chapter 23:

Sirius and Lupin had given Harry a set of excellent books entitled Practical Defensive Magic and Its Use Against the Dark Arts, [...]

how does that makes you feel mr.big

5. Intimacy

Last but not least (literally I think this is my favorite?) three moments that I think it shows us just how close those two are. Not even romantically, but in friendship too.

Order of the Phoenix, chapter 14:

[...] said Sirius with a wry smile. “I know she’s a nasty piece of work, though — you should hear Remus talk about her.”

We know Remus is a Nice Guy. He does everything he can to maintain at least a civil relationship with the people around him (save moments of distrees and his little cynical comments in poa, of course). And so the fact that he has a little "can I be mean?" moment with Sirius is just so funny... I just know Sirius supports all Remus' moments of haterism <3

Order of the phoenix, chapter 5:

“Molly, you’re not the only person at this table who cares about Harry,” said Lupin sharply. “Sirius, sit down.” Mrs. Weasley’s lower lip was trembling. Sirius sank slowly back into his chair, his face white

Order of the phoenix, chapter 29:

“I’m coming up there to have a word with Snape!” said Sirius force-fully and he actually made to stand up, but Lupin wrenched him backdown again.

I know people always talks about those 2 moments with the sense of like... oh wow remus asks and Sirius obeys thats hot and I AGREE it's the same thing I said before: If it was anyone else I think he would go "fuck off no" but since it's Remus he just do it unquestioned.

but ALSO. I feel like it does show how close they are... Close enough to push someone backwards etc those two lived together for more than a decade... they are Close and are used to each other and I think that's beautiful :')

[olderthannetfic]

So, you mentioned low standards of research in podcasts. I don't listen to podcasts or watch a lot of videos about fandom analysis, but I have seen error corrections happening in the wild for what I have listened to, so I can only imagine how annoying it is when you know your shit.

Do you have any resources that come to mind as things everyone who likes fandom should be comfortable with, or specific essays on uniquely important fandoms (such as Sherlock Holmes or Star Trek) that everyone should read? Obviously the OTW resources are up there; what else?

Aside from resources, do you think there are any skills that are especially vital for getting to the bottom of fandom trends? Interview skills are probably pretty high up there.

Any pitfalls you see a lot of young fans falling into?

(I do a lot of fandom history research. It is the thing that gives me joy in fandom; other people like shipping or AUs, I like my little mini-anthropology sandbox and watching how ideas spread. I'm not necessarily good at it, but it's fun!)

--

Well... it's the usual things.

For example, a lot of fans claim to love fandom stats, but the ones that get passed around come from like three people. The people doing those stats, including me, don't usually have a statistics background, which doesn't automatically make them bad, but it really seems like people are just trusting anything with a pie chart.

We've recently seen people discover that those year-end AO3 ship stats have a seriously weird methodology. They don't show the thing their fans are actually trying to find out. People were pissed. But most of the time, they don't even bother asking what the methodology is or trying to do anything themselves.

There's far too much sitting back and waiting for some BNF to spoon feed one publicly-available information.

--

The big failings aren't usually the math itself but, of course, not knowing what question to ask, so it pertains to history research, not just stats.

You'll see a lot of stuff on shipping that looks at AO3 because AO3 shipping numbers are easy to pull... But AO3 shipping numbers don't just happen to be easy to pull: that is both an effect and a cause that is directly related to AO3's content. Someone interested in meta shouldn't be asking "What do AO3's numbers show?" as their first question. They should be asking "Why is this metadata available or not available and what does that mean on a sociological level?"

--

Thing two is the eternal I Have Apparently Never Heard of Anime problem. A fuckton of people theorizing about fandom trends seem to know fucking nothing about whole massive sectors of fandom or treat them as afterthoughts. This is okay if you're writing a history of Media Fandom. It is criminally stupid if you're trying to talk about what makes a piece of media have fic when another doesn't, what kinds of websites make fandoms take off, etc. Those kinds of broad questions need a broad understanding of what's out there.

It's not anime-specific, and I'm not asking for a high degree of knowledge.

I have routinely had people tell me that best friend ships and mystery/crime as a genre aren't popular, and that's why AO3 has this or that pattern... Meanwhile, buddy cops are the bedrock of oldschool slash fandom and make up basically all of the longest-running Western m/m fandoms that aren't Star Trek. CSI slop tends to have legions of future canon het shippers, and they make plenty of fanworks. It's just that some of this is more visible on FFN or older places, not AO3.

I'm always seeing things like someone speculating about how this and that anime fandom thing or bit of mid-00s FFN community drama led to this other thing on AO3, not realizing that AO3 came out of LJ Western fandom slash culture. To them, FFN is so central that it must be the main reference point, not the bajillion and one archives AO3 founders ran or Usenet or mailing lists or LJ.

I once saw someone asking on twitter about where a prominent Ranma fic might have been posted in the mid-90s. People claiming "My professor is an authority!" came out of the woodwork in droves to blither about K/S zines and then LJ. Not only was this entirely wrong, but the right answer was blindingly obvious if you knew enough to interpret the google results. I can only assume that the person tweeting had never heard of Usenet and didn't recognize the acronym for the big anime fanfic group that literally everything like this was first posted to.

I'm talking people insisting that fandom only goes for white characters when it's very obvious that fandom goes for majority leads who are not othered. All the bawwing in the world about "People assume anime characters are white" won't get rid of The Untamed or Kpop thirsters or whatever.

I'm talking sweeping pronouncements about gender and fanfic writers where the person hasn't even heard of FIMFiction or SpaceBattles or Dark Lord Potter cheesefests.

I've been in fandom for a long time, but I wasn't in all these parts, and I wasn't around for 80s zines. You don't need deep knowledge until you pick a research topic. But it's shocking how little shallow, broad knowledge a lot of people have when they're writing their Theory Of All Of Fandom History.

--

People are stupid as shit about survivorship bias, and fandom history is no exception. They're also dumb in the opposite direction, assuming that the thing they like now has always existed in this exact form.

For example, someone got mad at Fanlore for supposedly not documenting the history of f/f zines. Others have searched and searched for the zines of their old show they got into last year and are bewildered to not find any. The reality is that Fanlore editors are attempting to document every Media Fandom zine and have combed through old adzines looking for any mention of anything. Because of the methods of distribution—because it was expensive—small fandoms often had no zines at all.

Femslash fandom doesn't seem to have gotten enough critical mass to do much until Xena. The internet has really democratized things, but even the early internet was still somewhat in that old mindset where only certain popular things have a fandom. I think Yuletide itself, which started in 2003, really helped spread the idea of rare-but-existing fandoms being a thing. FFN and perhaps some other multifandom archives like Media Miner played a huge role.

Nowadays, we think of fic as just how you respond to media, any media, even if there are only two fics for that one car commercial, but that isn't how people saw things in every era—or at least it's not how fandom infrastructure worked. A lot of the time, the big hosting spots were single-fandom archives, often with restrictive content rules. Finding somewhere to post a m/m/f OT3 fic used to be hard. Never mind early zines when photocopiers didn't even exist yet and you had to sell out your print run of 500 to make a go of it.

All good research starts with a lot of preliminary investigation to figure out what you're even trying to look for.

Actually bothering to look for fans talking about their own history or casually chatting with your interview subjects before the formal interview will put a person miles ahead of many of the cringeworthy fandom ~papers~ I've seen.

The biggest mistake people make is going "Okay, these numbers aren't perfect, but some numbers are better than no numbers".

Bullshit.

As soon as there's a pie chart of the false numbers, everyone's brain turns off and they never look at the chart subtitle, never mind the research notes.

Bad numbers are often worse than no numbers.

Look at the logic behind the methodology first. Look at the social context. Basic understanding of human nature and familiarizing oneself with the shape and hangout locations of a community will get you most of the way there before you sit down for a specific interview or try to collect any specific numbers.

--

None of this is a fandom thing. Research is research. It's just that most people think "research" means watching a tiktok that the algorithm likes and were never taught how to evaluate a source for reliability.

Evaluating sources is a skill. I had explicit lessons on it in school. Lots of people don't, and that sucks.

Honestly, watching the more thoughtful debunking content on non-fandom topics, like Miniminuteman's stuff on pseudo-archaeology or Dan Olson's... everything, is a good window into critical thinking, and that's most of what's missing from bad fandom history.

--

But more than any of that, more is more. Not the crap stats, but the narrower, more personal accounts, the interviews. The more fans who investigate their little corner that isn't the same old AO3 site-wide "Why is there so much m/m?" ship stats or the same canned "Everything comes from K/S" history, the better.

What I object to is not amateur efforts but efforts that pull from the same small pool of data or that just reblog a tiny handful of supposed authorities.

--

If people are going to read just one thing... hmm... go try to look up a history of rec.arts.anime.creative, not because I think it's the most important fandom history out there but because it's at the nexus of things a lot of current fandom history work miss.

[jeonscatalyst]

https://www.tumblr.com/jeonscatalyst/760242773222883328/this-all-of-this-and-every-single-bit-of-this?source=share

I do agree with this person's analysis of Jimin and Jungkook personalities, and I also agree that to some extent Jungkook's affection being rarer than Jimin's does make it more special to some fans, but where I disagree is that I don't think that's the main reason why fans seem to put more weight in what Jungkook does than what Jimin does.

Because while some fans will put this much thought on the differences in jikook's personalities, I don't think it's the majority that does. It's kinda of a problem we have actually. If people realised that Jimin and Jungkook are two different people with different ways of showing affection, then we wouldn't have to keep seeing the same stupid takes on their relationship over and over again. It's people expecting jikook to always do to the other the exact same thing the other did to them that causes so much annoying discourse.

But you know what a lot of shipper do love doing? Competing with one another. Competition is one of the main things in every k-pop fandom and sub-fandom, shippers are no exception. And when it comes to jikookers we all know the competition is with taekookers. We're always at each other's throats, let's be honest. And some spend just as much time taking about the rival ship as they do talking about their own ship.

Which leads me to what I believe is the real main reason why both sides (not just jikookers) view Jungkook's actions as more important. It's because he's the in-common person to both ships. He's like the main character in a love triangle. He's the one that ultimately decides who gets together in the end, not the two love interests, so their actions don't matter as much.

The point of contention with shippers has never really been whether or not Jimin or Taehyung like Jungkook, that's already assumed to be the case. With solos it's definitely an argument, but jikookers and taekookers focus more on each other than in solos. No, the real question has always been who does Jungkook like more: Jimin or Taehyung?

If Jimin declares his love for Jungkook jikookers will of course love that, but if Jungkook is the one who does it it'll matter more because it can be used against taekookers. Taekookers don't care if Jimin loves Jungkook or not, what he feels doesn't matter to them. Nothing Jimin says can prove anything to them. The confirmation has to come from Jungkook, that's the only way they'll care about it. And jikookers do care about one-upping taekookers. If we didn't we wouldn't spend so much time trying to prove to them that we're right.

There's been plenty of times when I've seen something that used to not matter suddenly become important the moment people realize it could be used in the shipping competition. It's a sort of 'I didn't care that much about that thing I have until I realized it could make the other side jealous'. Or 'I didn't want that thing until the other side got it and now I want it too'.

Things naturally hold more importance to people when those things have not only their own inherent value but also when they have the added bonus of pissing off someone you don't like. Jimin's love for Jungkook is important by itself but Jungkook's love for Jimin is seen as more important because it will also piss off taekookers.

I'm pretty sure that if the two biggest ships were jikook and vmin instead, then the most important thing suddenly would be Jimin's affection, regardless of how affectionate he is with everyone.

Again, I do agree some fans do consider jikook's differences and that that does influence how they value their actions, it's just that I think there's a bigger reason here.

I hope this didn't come across as me being a contrarian for the sake of it, I just wanted to add a separate perspective on the subject because I've had this opinion for a while and it seemed relevant to the topic. I also hope I was not to harsh on my opinions of other jikookers, but no fandom is without it's flaws and I think it's important to acknowledge them.

Anon, I owe you a cold beer right now because it seems like you read my mind.

This is exactly what I think too. It’s just mostly about the competition, the shipwars, the fights and the need to “win”. That’s really why people think Jungkook’s actions hold more meaning that Vmins. It’s like Jungkook is the prize that Vmin are desperately trying to win and every action or word of his is used as an affirmation or debunking. “Jungkook did this with Tae but didn’t do that with Jimin so Tae is his boyfriend”….just an endless cycle of bullshit.

Anyone who is mature and experienced enough understands that Jimin and Jungkook don’t have to express themselves exactly the same for things to be mutual. Jimin could say “I love you” to Jungkook and Jungkook wouldn’t say it back but would prefer to make a video of Jimin. So many people would say Jungkook didn’t reciprocate just because he didn’t do things exactly the way Jimin did when the truth is that he did, just in his own way.

When I see people coming up with useless takes or comparisons about their bond it pisses me off to no end because it’s the little things that Jungkook does. People would get pissed at Jungkook and say that he doesn’t show love to Jimin as much as Jimin does just because Jimin would constantly touch him, ask him to eat alot and is very vocal about his affection but Jungkook remembering that Jimin likes his food spicy and trying to make it just how Jimin likes it apparently means nothing because Jungkook wasn’t shouting on a roof top or Jungkook thinking of what to cook in Jeju and knowing that Jimin would love it doesn’t matter because he didn’t stand on a podium and announce it or Jungkook quietly getting water for Jimin and giving him to drink without him asking doesn’t mean a thing because he didn’t carry Jimin on his head. Sometimes I don’t even have the energy to argue because if only people understood Jungkook they would know that Jungkook doesn’t treat anyone the same way he does Jimin.

I personally can see how someone might naturally value Jungkook’s actions more because Jimin is a natural caring, nurturing and loving person to everyone so sometimes it is hard to tell if his actions mean more or it is just him being himself but with Jungkook, he tries as much as possible to be impartial but he just cannot help it when it comes to Jimin. He is pretty kind and caring towards everyone he loves too but not the same way Jimin does it plus Jungkook tends to go big when he expresses his affection for Jimin. So with Jimin we get little bits of love and affection more frequently than we get from Jungkook but once we get one from Jungkook, it is usually news worthy and kinda exclusive to Jimin so it hits harder.

I dunno. I might have gone off topic but like I said, I 100% agree with you.

[slurinq]

Literally borusara shippers are so annoying it pmo so bad like all I did was make a comment on a YouTube video about the ships and all I did was say my opinion on how I don’t like borusara as a romantic pairing but as friends, how I would rather have Borusumi as a romantic pairing and be endgame instead..

TELL ME WHYYY I HAVE 3 BORUSARA SHIPPERS ON MY ASS TODAY?!

Like it’s not funny, it’s never that serious. They always want to use the excuse saying how ikemoto doesn’t want to follow the footsteps of kishimoto(romantic pairings)

They say how Borusumi is like a naruhina 2.0, ikemoto chose to ignore their relationship…like you see what I mean?!

This BS! They try sooo hard to say how borusara is going to be canon and try to prove it’s going to be canon. Like if Borusumi is a naruhina 2.0 ? Then what makes borusara? Like it wouldn’t be any different…they are just like a water down bits of NS and it would also prove sns shippers right that all you need is one of them to be a girl… so if they were to happen, it wouldn’t be special or different. It would be too predictable🤣

Borusumi is very different from naruhina, sumire cares a lot for boruto, she isn’t a scientist for nothing, she is observant and empathetic. Sarada has none of those things, Sarada can’t even seem to understand boruto pain to why he doesn’t say anything for a reason yet she tries to press Eida about telling her where boruto is..that’s why sumire had clocked Sarada Tea, she had to open her mouth bc if not then Sarada would keep going on and on and complaining about how boruto isn’t saying anything it’s obvious that debate was emotions vs logic and sumire logic was winning against Sarada emotions…Sarada emotions get too high to the point where she makes reckless moves, that’s why she made boruto lose an eye.

It’s obvious sumire is made for boruto, she is the one, why would boruto get together with someone who doesn’t even try to understand him, so obsessed with him and makes negative impacts on him…

That’s why sumire says boruto gets hurt bc they were there, which implies to Sarada being reckless.

She understands boruto more than Sarada does in an empathetic way…yeah just because you know someone longer than another person has doesn’t mean that they understand that person on a deeper level at certain points…I would say boruto and Sarada understand each other bc of their father issues but really, does Sarada understands boruto reasons? No not really. You can understand someone at some points but not everything…all Sarada do was nag boruto.

Like are we serious? When Borusara shippers make their points on why it’s “canon” and etc, you see how it’s sooo dumb! They don’t make sense! To if you compare it to Borusumi shippers points, they go off of evidence and NOT what their opinions on the ship and not only what the author says…

[dyingchemist]

Why the Arcane fandom sucks, an essay.

There is no way to enjoy anything in this fandom I feel, and frankly as someone who isn’t a shipper in any fandom I find it suffocating that the jayvik discourse snuffs everything else out. I also find it disgusting how everyone bullies the non-shippers or OC shippers/self shippers in this fandom I’ve notice. I have also noticed a fair bit of misogyny as well, whether it’s from people who are against Mel and Jayce or Sky and Viktor, or people invading the Jayce x reader and Viktor x reader (especially the fem!reader) tags with jayvik ship material. It’s exhausting if I’m honest. I also hate how the fandom uses any shred of media interviews to basically “go see see look you’re wrong,” to anyone who just wants to enjoy the original media in the way they want to and share it with others. Regarding the post production statements from cast and crew, my personal opinion is that they often try to give relatively (key word relatively) open ended statements while also giving the statement that would be most popular. You forget these people are PR trained. Now I think it’s perfectly fine if the cast and crew think it should be one way or another and I believe it’s still left just open ended enough for everyone to enjoy things how they want. I think I just get frustrated that people are a bit too stupid to see that people will always give the most PR popular answer (except the main writer apparently who I love how his statement is always like yeahhhhh anyways shut up, but everyone else’s statements are law? Idk kinda weird.)

I just think I’m very disappointed that my favorite show is slowly becoming something I hate because of the fanbase and I feel like I and other women are not allowed to enjoy it or our comfort characters unless they shut up and agree. And honestly I am disappointed that people on either side demand answers or for things to be official rather than letting everyone be happy. It’s called headcanon for a reason.

As someone who is ND and has hyper fixations it is hard to cope with this and it’s frankly frustrating and sort of embarrassing I get in such a tizzy that I feel like I can’t just go on IG or even Pinterest and enjoy just Viktor art without it behind shipping art. And I think it’s also ridiculous that I feel like I have to explain that no, it’s not me hating two men being shipped, frankly I think some of the art is adorable, is the fact I’ll put not interested in IG and I’ll get 20 more posts, or on posts that are like Sky x Viktor there will always be some jayvik shipper screeching there. At the end of the day it’s just annoying that no one is allowed to enjoy the same show we all love in a different way and are practically forced out of the internet spaces. I don’t even go on IG anymore because it was making me sort of upset, and tumblr is on thin ice but at least I can filter tags here. (But sometimes I would like a cheeky poly fic so I don’t really filter HAHA.) What I mean to say is that the rabid shippers are pushing BNHA levels, and what I mean by that is how feral they are and if you disagree they double down and sort of terrorize the rest of the fandom which frankly I don’t think is that small of a sect. (Those the disgusting and problematic stuff is not remotely on the same scale. The worst is misogyny and at times racism.)

Fandom and specifically fanfic has always been very fem coded in my experience and it makes me feel queasy that the fanbase for my favorite show actively seems to hate women. For example there was something on tiktok or IG about an artist drawing a racist depiction of Cait and then vitkor beautifully, or the fact shippers are racist towards Mel and Sky. I see SQUAT about time bomb or CaitVi, hell even Vander and Silco! I guess the crux of it is, a little diversity would be nice, character analyses that don’t revolve around sexuality or shipping, theory’s or expansions upon characters that sort of got back burnered like Sky or other councilors or more about the sort of rebellion and why Silco and Vander had a falling out. Writing critique on the show even considering that second season was so rushed imo!

Just let the women be in the fanbase bro. I don’t care that y’all are shipping two men, great, so you shouldn’t care what I and other women are doing too! You should be like cool we love the same show!

I am curious how women/fems/or just anyone burnt out from fandom and shipping feels and copes with this. Saying cope feels sort of cringe and like it’s causing me a mental breakdown, it’s more so the “bro please let me enjoy my favorite thing too,” feeling. We should make our own community with in the fandom so we can enjoy things as well with other people too. It’s okay and it makes me want to finally share my own writings I just don’t know where to start since I’ve been a lurker for 10+ years.

Love,

A Dying Chemist

[puttersmile]

Why I like Dogday x Bobby Bearhug

Working off of my last Crittertember post, posting the shipping manifesto for the four of you who are just dying to know, lol.

Part 1 of Post: Here. Just a lot of pictures.

I guess I should start with how I started liking the ship in the first place. As best as I can remember it started with a mildly intense obsession with the Smiling Critters after seeing them in Poppy Playtime Chapter 3. Their carboard soundboards specifically intrigued me. As a fandom we really had ziltch to work with so maybe I was hyper-analyzing their phrases to see if anything could be gleamed from them.

There isn't much unless we are meant to believe Picky is literally a cannibal. I don't think so? I think the voice lines have been corrupted by the metric ton of death that happened within the factory. Be it as it may, what little we fanon-ize about the critters, a lot of it is probably coming from those soundboards.

A post about this already exists on tumblr but at some random point I thought, "Weird Bobby Bearhug and Dogday's cut outs sound like they are talking to one another." Not sure how my brain jumped to that conclusion but it did. As seen in this post with some old oogly art I drew.

And then @meowcola made my dream come true by editing the two voices together. Yhaass! For this I am forever grateful to my fellow shipper.

I don't think any of the other critter's voice lines bounce off of each other as well as these two do (admittedly with slight editing), or even at all. But Bobby and Dogday's cutouts almost seem to have a conversation that don't work played against any of the others. Dogday trying to push someone away that he cares for and Bobby desperately trying to stay with someone she cares for.

Dogday's fall is he cares too much.

Bobby's fall is she doesn't care enough. For herself.

Obviously they are talking to the player actually but my fanon ship brain interpreted it differently. I guess from there, albeit a doomed one, I shipped this ship fairly hard.

The rest of this rambling essay under the cut:

Why I think they work:

Dogday and Bobby’s relationship is mostly about balance. While Dogday’s the brave and daring leader of the group (except when there's a thunderstorm—he tries), Bobby’s the physically strong yet practical one. She’s a total powerhouse,(literal mama bear energy) ready to protect when needed, but only as a last resort. Dogday loves how protective she is, and Bobby really appreciates his loyalty, especially since it helps with her self-worth issues.

One of Bobby’s biggest insecurities is that she believes she’s annoying to her friends. Even though it’s clear she’s not, in the back of her mind, she constantly second-guesses her actions. She’ll wonder if hugging someone is the right move in the moment or if she’s overstepping. Dogday, on the other hand, is someone who thrives on affection and would never get tired of Bobby’s hugs, making him the perfect counter to her uncertainty.

Both of them would share a strong sense of humor, which helps them face life’s challenges with optimism. Dogday is especially good at this.  They know how to lighten the mood and bring joy to each other’s lives, even when the weight of everything starts to creep in.

Bobby’s also got a knack for stepping in when Dogday forgets to take care of himself. She’s nurturing, and in return, Dogday reminds her she’s worth it, which she sometimes forgets. Though Bobby’s not Dogday’s second-in-command (that’s usually Bubba Bubbaphant), she’s the one Dogday confides in emotionally when leadership wears him down.

Over time, Bobby finds herself leaning on Dogday, too, sharing her deepest insecurities and struggles with him.

What really makes them work is how much everyone trusts Bobby. She’s the keeper of everyone’s secrets because they just naturally open up to her. And eventually, Dogday becomes her rock, giving them this deep emotional connection where they’re both vulnerable and open with each other.

Bobby’s practicality also helps balance out Dogday’s crazier ideas. She rarely says “no” outright, but she’s good at restructuring them to make things safer or less chaotic. If safety’s not the issue, then they’re often the ones mediating when their friends have disagreements. They’ve both learned the importance of compromise and work together to bring peace to any tense situation.

I feel like their brief character descriptions show how good they would both be at this.

They’re known as the “mom and dad” of the group, always looking out for everyone’s physical and emotional well-being.

It’s funny how differently they approach things, like planning events—Dogday’s spontaneous energy versus Bobby’s structured organization—but they still make a great team.

In public, they’ve got this super cute Barbie/Ken - Mickey&Minnie vibe, showing their love for each other without hesitation. It’s strong, proud, and they never shy away from letting everyone know how much they mean to each other!

Character flaws/dark side of the ship:

At their darkest, Bobby and Dogday have some pretty complex flaws. Bobby, when she’s at her worst, can be manipulative. She’s got this way of playing on people’s emotions, sometimes twisting things to suit her needs, all while wearing a caring face. It’s like she knows people trust her and she uses that to her advantage, especially if she’s feeling insecure or threatened.

On the flip side, Dogday’s biggest weakness is his fear of hurting others. He’ll go to great lengths to avoid conflict, even if it means letting himself be hurt. He’s so afraid of causing pain or upsetting someone that he’ll bottle up his own feelings or allow himself to be taken advantage of.

This combination can be dangerous when their issues align, with Bobby’s manipulation and Dogday’s passive acceptance creating a pretty toxic dynamic in their worst moments. Thankfully this outcome is incredibly hard for me to see happening. It is still a possibility though.

(In some messed up but interesting fanfiction)

Other Stuff:

On the wiki I saw something incredibly minute but decided to go ahead and make something of it.  There is the idea, at least, that Dogday is named after “Dogstar” aka Sirius, the brightest star in the night sky. If you think about Dogday being associated with Sirius, the Dog Star, and Bobby representing Ursa Major aka The Big Dipper, in my mind it symbolizes how their relationship works.

Sirius is the brightest star, leading the way, just like Dogday, who's bold, full of energy, and always guiding others. Bobby, on the other hand, is like Ursa Major—steady, reliable, and always there to support.

Their relationship reflects that balance: Dogday’s light and leadership are complemented by Bobby’s protective, grounding nature. Together, they’re like two guiding forces—he lights the way, and she provides the strength and stability needed to stay on course.

It’s almost like he can shine brighter because he knows she’s there, holding things together.

And for Bobby, Dogday is the spark that keeps her moving forward, even when she feels uncertain.

It’s also cool how Ursa Major is used for navigation, like Bobby helps Dogday find his way emotionally. Meanwhile, Sirius has been a marker of important times like the "dog days" of summer or the flooding of the Nile river, (The flooding of the Nile is celebrated btw, it's a good thing) just as Dogday marks big changes in Bobby’s life.

They balance each other out like the constellations they represent: one a guiding light, the other a steady, protective force in the background.

I think about the cardboard cutout order. Bobby and Dogday are among the last supposedly, holding out even longer than the athletic Hoppy. I interpret that to mean Bobby on her own has a strong will and some amount of bravery.

Not to throw shade at the others who fell before, as it could have all come down to bad luck.(or bad platforming skills--burn.)  But I bring the “possible” death order up as some might say Bobby’s sweet and caring nature means she is weak or useless. I don’t think so.

This is also why I characterize Bobby as sort of a lady-like yet cute bruiser. Dogday is brave but not the strongest critter by far.  Dogday is  Zelda and Bobby is Link lol.  Bobby Bearhug is his knight in fluffy armor, and Dogday is Bobby’s warm home.

There is a tragedy to this. If Bobby was one of the last two  with Dogday in the game. (Going by the order the cardboard cutouts are seen.) I imagine she was doing her best to support him, only for Dogday to abandon Bobby near the end. As the leader, Dogday did what he thought was best and it broke her, ultimately ending them both.

How the relationship Helps them grow:

Not wanting to end this on a down note I’ll speak a bit more on how the relationship enhances both of them.

Bobby’s practical, more thoughtful approach doesn’t just temper Dogday’s adventurous spirit as what may be expected from a dynamic like this. In fact it enhances his daring. 

Yes, it'll ease him off riskier behavior but it enables him to be a more successful leader with her providing safety nets and or foundations for him to be confident. It's not just him willing confidence from within, there's another external pillar to  bolster his confidence. That pillar being her secret knowledge of their friends. While Bobby won't be spilling secrets, she'd certainly know how to guide Dogday in the right direction when it comes to helping the others.

She helps ensure that his ideas are successful and safe, so he'll not only be able to focus his energy on particulars but he'll have the confidence to be the best leader he can be, knowing he won't just come crashing down to earth.  

In turn Dogday's boundless energy, brings joy and spontaneity to Bobby’s more grounded maybe reserved, structured world.  Though she is strong she likely tends to fall back to what's familiar, to what's safe. There is strength in the familiar in the sense of you know for sure you are strong here, but out there things may be more uncertain. 

Out there you can feel weak. At least that's the perception for some with issues of self worth. But now with his energy, his enthusiasm, his optimism, and his light, she'll have the freedom to step out of her usual comfort zones and perhaps be more than she may have imagined. 

Sooo yeah. This ship is not bad. Nor is it boring. I'll never understand how this sentiment came about. Opposites attract isn't the only way a relationship can be interesting. Okay people?

 And that is all that I have to say! Thanks for listening to my CritterTalk.

[ahyesthesufferingoftvteens]

You know I don’t think Kaidam shippers really explore the more unhealthy side of Adam and Kai’s relationship…which is disappointing to me because it sounds like something that would be really fun to explore?

This is a long post, so I’m gonna put the rest under the cut, for those who are interested in hearing me out:

Like in most depictions I see Kaidam as this very cute and fluffy and wholesome ship. Which I absolutely love, and I think Adam and Kai can be like that!

Then I look at the canon material and we have:

- Adam infantilizing Kai. “Very cool, Kai!” Has the same energy of your mom cooing at a shitty drawing of herself that you made for her when you were four.

- Kai pushing Adam away and barking back when Adam tries to control the situation and force Kai on the back-burner. OR when Kai very obviously states that he wants to be left alone and Adam doesn’t respect that request and tries to fix a problem that can’t be fixed in that moment.

- Adam and Kai both having trouble regulating their negative emotions and potentially getting explosive, which once resulted in Kai getting thrown across a forest. Wowza.

- Kai having a strong need for attention and validation that Adam does not notice as an obvious sign of trouble at home and something that Kai needs to talk about and get help with. Instead he interprets it as, “ugh, he’s being annoying again,” and reacts according to that perception.

- Kai outright hinting that Mira and Adam never really…hung out with him before he was invited to their team? And likely still didn’t while he was in their team? He was very likely brought to training sessions but that was it. They’ve never even been in his house before The Hollow Life. Adam very likely did not see Kai as a part of his circle before everything happened.

- Adam saying things that are insensitive to Kai and then not taking Kai’s resulting insecurities seriously and very obviously treating them as something he can quickly fix with a few words, which hints that Adam sees Kai as shallow.

Like, Adam and Kai’s friendship is fucked up. Toxic even, I would say. On one side we potentially have undiagnosed ASPD and OCD, and on the other side we potentially have undiagnosed HPD/BPD and AuDHD. This is a recipe for some DRAMA.

But the fact that no one has ever explored how this shitstorm of a relationship can evolve into something that’s actually healthy (as far as I can see) is sad because the POTENTIAL is INSANE.

Like, just imagine this…

—————

Kai confesses he likes Adam. Adam, who doesn’t take Kai’s feelings seriously, thinks Kai is shallow, and subconsciously views Kai as lesser probably thinks to himself “Awwww he’s a baby bi! You know what? I’ll date him for a little bit. It’s his first guy crush, he’ll be over it in a week. Besides, I’ll be giving him an example of what a good boyfriend should be like!” And meanwhile Kai, who is definitely very into Adam and desperately wants Adam to like him, is trying very very hard to impress and please and help Adam.

Then the PROBLEMS start coming in and Kai sticks it through anyways because he does genuinely like Adam, and he wants to be better for Adam, he just wishes Adam would actually try to be better for him.

So then this relationship lasts for longer than Adam anticipated, but by this point he’s too in deep, and he’s probably starting to actually like Kai back (but he likely doesn’t understand that yet because Adam strikes me as autoromantic with the occasional exception. Romantic feelings? What are those?), so he just kinda lets the relationship continue while not really knowing what to do about all of it.

That is, until Kai SNAPS. Accuses Adam of never actually liking him (which is partially true) and playing with his feelings (which he did) and then when Adam confirms these assumptions Kai breaks up with Adam and blocks his contacts.

And THAT is when Adam realizes he fucked up big time and that the way he views Kai is wrong, and also that he really likes Kai now. This is the funniest part of the story: Adam begging and bargaining with Kai for WEEKS before Kai even considers talking to Adam again. Kai’s first request is the most daunting: Go to therapy, Adam.

So Adam does that despite his protests, because god forbid he loose Kai again. He gets therapy, and works through some of his shitty behaviors. He’s much more self-aware than he was before now. Kai is working through his own issues as well.

More time passes, and Adam and Kai are finally hanging out again. This time Adam tries his damndest to hear Kai out, and Kai is no longer as explosive, but he’s very firm on his boundaries and doesn’t let Adam walk all over him. They start dating again later down the line (happiest day of Adam’s life) and now Adam has a story to tell his grandchildren about how he nearly fumbled the bag with his husband.

—————

This is a gold-mine to me. The sauce is impeccable. Every relationship can have issues: the goal is to work through them together as a team!

Let me see relationships that don’t work out at first but then with dedication the two meet in the middle and are finally deserving of each other!

Let me see relationships that aren’t perfect 100% of the time but are still absolutely great!

Let me see relationships that sucked and the two work their things out, but decide to remain friends because that just works better for them!

Let me see complicated relationships! They’re so fun to read!

…Also this scenario I wrote out is also great potential for Reekai (Sorry. It’s my OTP. I gotta rant about them). Like if you branch off after the break up and Kai starts hanging out with Reeve (who probably ALSO dated Adam once and would understand Kai’s strife.) you get the very funny concept of “Adam’s exes keep dating each other.”

In this scenario, after accepting that he lost Kai, Adam would probably be somewhat proud of the fact that he set Reeve and Kai up…until he remembers that he did so by being a trash boyfriend. Then he’s kinda down on himself until he quickly picks himself back up and strives for the future.

And I mean, who knows? Maybe in the future Reeve and Kai could consider letting Adam date the both of them once they’ve deemed he’s worthy.

There’s a lot of directions this can go guys. The Hollow kids and their relationships with each other are messy! Let’s talk about it!

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

The way that Zutarians act toward the fandom and the creators that don't agreed with their headcanons kind of brings an uncomfortable tendency that i see in female dominated fandoms. I feel a bit scared about sounding sexist, but here it goes:

Most of the female dominated fandoms tend to have shipping and porn (being fanfic or artwork) as the main topic of many things, like is basically in the cover and they constanly are absolute assholes toward other fans and creators of the show, including things like death threats or slander to the authors if they dissagreed with then. Like, i feel every female dominated fandom devolves at some points on Mean Girls type of bullying.

Don't get me wrong, is not that men don't get involved on that, but they don't tend to be a big number in my expirience. Go to any male dominated fandom and chances are that the porn and shipping it's relegated to it's own corner, it does ocasionally pops up, but i never seen it get as bad as in the female ones.

If male nerds are obnoxious about something, is usually about "who can beat who" types of disscusions, and yeah, they can get absurd when their blorbo doesn't turn out to be the "chadest of chads", but i never see then treating the creators in the same way that shippers do.

I'm sure that some noticieable exceptions exist, i heard that My Little Pony fanbase was full of dudes and yuri shipping. So maybe it got bad over there, but MLP male fans tended to be mocked by everyone in my expirience.

Not saying that all women are like this, of course, i got good expiriences with females fans, but whenever i see a fanbase when the girls outnumber the boys...well it tends to end the same way. By comparison, male fandoms just devolve into annoying memes or repeating the same disscusions because either someone can't let it go or someone new joined and wants to talk about it.

Anon, gona be real with you: nearly all fandoms are the exact same shit, regardless of whether it's a majority women, majority men, or an even split.

You'll find porn without looking for it. You'll see people getting way too invested in an argument about which character is stronger, or nicer, or hotter, or funnier, or whatever. You'll see a bunch of dipshits that take advantage of anonimity to be the absolute fucking worst. You'll find those groups that completely forget this is meant to be a fun thing and will act like having the wrong take on a character is the same as being a mass muderer. And if there's enough numbers, you'll see crazy ship wars, with people forming larger groups to bully others.

What I will say is that female bullies sometimes behave differently from male bullies, mainly by trying REALLY hard to pretend they're not bullies at all - and depending on the number of radfems in said fandom and if they have a stick up their ass about being a majority women fandom, they'll act like their gender means they can't be bullies, no matter how poorly they behave, because they're actually just "feminists" who are "doing right by women" by yelling at a stranger about which characters should or shouldn't kiss.

THAT is very much the case for the zutara fandom.

[biancasaidstfu]

To the anon ask about socials. The key to balance it is to have more content of your other interests in your algorithm so you see less of the foolishness of Bridgerton fandom. If you do that you'll still see Bridgerton but more of the good stuff and if you don't watch too much of the annoying things is doesn't hit your algorithm as much.

On my socials TL, TT almost always has a profile I need to block every time I login that's because the trolls, bitter ex shippers and jakolas pop up daily. But for the most part if I see anything it's mostly Polin, Nicola and Luke alone, Nicola alone or Luke alone.

IG I do not get trolls, jakolas or bitter ex shippers content bombarding me. For some reason my IG algorithm works the best, if I see something it's because I searched for it but what I quickly do is reset the algorithm and it's back to normal, my IG has a lot of curated content that drowns out everything Nicola, Luke and Bridgerton related. Because my other interests have more content and attention than Bridgerton related stuff.

Tumblr is easy - once I don't follow a tag I won't see anything Jakola, bitter ex shipper or troll related. Again I only see it if I actively search for it. I stay away from the tags and only visit the blogs I am interested in. If something slips through I block.

Twitter is not so straight forward I find I have to do a lot of blocking, muting profiles and words. Most times if sub tweets about the adjacents ex bitter shippers or jakolas come up I don't see it. I also use the tags to go on a blocking spree because sometimes profiles I am interested in respond to sub tweets and that's how I find more to block. I don't even think sub tweets about the adjacents should even be a thing but to each his own.

As Bianca said, a lot of people in the fandom aren't interested in the sides anymore only the main course. Today I saw some shady sub tweets about Jake and Antonia's stories but they weren't referred to by name, you could tell it was them the profiles were tweeting about. Some of the Portuguese, Italian and Spanish Twitter shippers still spiral or pay too much attention to Jake and Antonia, I blocked a lot of them because it's ridiculous and they are the same ones who tweet hate shit about Luke and Nicola when trying to kiss Jake and Antonia. Every day they fight and I can't stand that. No offense to anyone who believes in Tarot but I blocked those profiles too, a lot of drama follows them and I don't like it so I stay away.

Sometimes fandoms host spaces, I joined a few on Twitter but language is a barrier so I can't catch everything that is said.

The thing is you have to keep updating your algorithm by just focusing on what you want to see and it will read that to curate your content on your TL. Generative AI would only work well when you feed it what you want.

Good advice and info!

[allaboutalf]

At this point Buck & Tommy shippers/multi shippers just need to not engage with the toxic buddie shippers at all. That’s what I’m going to do.

They’ve reached a level where there’s no reasoning with them and the negativity is off the charts. Anything you do now will just egg them on. Don’t quote them, don’t screenshot the weird things they say, don’t argue their theories, don’t post the anon hate, don’t try to argue sense to them. Just let them be and close the door to them so they can’t impact enjoyment of the show. Leave them to their echo chamber. Block them and don’t engage.

Instead be loud and proud about what you enjoy about the show in your own spaces and around the general public, on official accounts, and when relaying your appreciation to the cast/producers/crew/writers. Create the art and write the stories and talk to people who enjoy what you do too and let’s get back to the relatively positive space we were in just after 7.04.

The only thing I think you should still do when it comes to any toxic people is call out when they attack real people like fans, fan artists and actors and writers. When they do things to bully and harass. I think it’s good to not let that slide. I’ll still call that out.

But anything else, it’s just not worth putting yourself in that space. Let them act like toxic children over a TV show and just feed their misery to each other.

And the few extreme people on the Buck & Tommy side, I hope you can take this onboard too. Cause at first I did get it. I still do get the want to defend yourself and to push back when you’re being bullied just cause you enjoy something. But the few who are basically the Buck & Tommy version of toxic buddies now are making it harder for us all. The negativity hypes up the negativity of others, especially when you’re seeking them out to argue with no cause. The whole thing is starting to annoy those in the fandom who are neutral and those who agree with you but feel like it’s going too far now and leaving a bad taste in the mouth.

I think it’s doing the ship a disservice to be exactly the same as toxic buddie shippers cause all it does is turn people off the ship like the toxic buddies are doing to the buddie ship. And personally I just want to enjoy the ship for however long it lasts and look back with positivity whenever things are done (be it soon or way down the line).

Look obviously you do you, I’m just saying my piece and you can ignore it but I really recommend just leaving them be beyond calling out the truly terrible, toxic stuff. For your own mental health and for everyone’s enjoyment of the show.

[camicore-1919]

Sakura vs Pierrot?

Like I said in my last post, I´m re-watching and re-reading Naruto and I couldn´t help but notice there are extra scenes in the anime about Sakura, but not all of them are bad. I don´t think the anime tries to make her unlikeable, its actually trying to make her look better.

btw this is about og Naruto and I´m currently in the Chunnin exams arc. Maybe this gets bad in Shippuden idk?

Introduction

In episode 3 we get an extra scene in the anime where we can hear Sakura´s mother calling for her and she says that "she´s tired of being treated like a little girl". This is nonexistant in the manga, and it tries to add some depth to her character, since the only thing we get is that she likes Sasuke. The rest of the scenes in this episode are very similar to the manga, she comes off as annoying in both of them, but that´s okay bc characters are supposed to have development.

EXCEPT for this last one

But honestly, I think this is good. She sees Naruto and tries to invite him and be nice to him. She only yells at him at the end because he didn´t believe her and ran away because he thought it was Sasuke pretending to be her.

2. Goal

This is exactly the same in the manga/anime but I wanna bring it up because I HATE IT. Naruto and Sasuke are literally stating their goals as characters but Sakura is only able to say she "dislikes Naruto". I think this is why Kishimoto or Pierrot or whoever it was came up with the idea of Sakura´s parents, so at least she has SOMETHING other than "I like Sasuke".

3. Chunin exams

Everything is the same in the Land of Waves arc, so I´ll skip it. The first change we get is this added scenes that take half of episode 21 in which the jonin desgise themselves as enemies to test team 7 to see if they´re ready for the exams. In Sakura´s case, she passes because she realizes the whole thing is a genjutsu. Its a cool scene for her, but sadly, right after that we go back to canon, where she doesn´t have any confidence again.

Its a good extra, but at the end, all the confidence she shows here is gone later, so meh.

Canonically, she feels better because Sasuke points out the genjutsu at the door of the exams and tells her she is smart. It´s cute, but it would have been better if she felt confident because she did something herself, not because the boy she likes told her something nice for once.

This is a detail that gets pointed out by ssk shippers that is not in the anime, so I guess this is the first point for the manga, but it´s just a detail bc the rest is the exact same.

Also, another point for ssk shippers ig. In the anime he remembers the hug from the Forest of death, in the manga is just Sakura crying.

4. Ino

This is something I´m not sure about because in the english translation Ino says this, but in spanish she says "Bah, he thinks he´s so cool" (talking about Sasuke). SO, in the manga it seems like Ino liked Sasuke but was tsundere (?) about it and said nothing to Sakura, and when the later found out she declared Ino an enemy, which is weird and makes Sakura look bad honestly.

But in the anime (again, in the latam dub) it goes:

Random girl: "Wow, it seems like Sakura came out of her shell" Ino: "Tch, I would like to push her back in"

This makes Ino look really mean, so we now assume Sakura left because she felt Ino´s resentment, and Sasuke was just an excuse. Appart from this, while they´re friends, we never see Ino trying to put Sakura down in any way. She is always putting herself down so that Ino lifts her up.

The anime makes Ino meaner adding things like this too. She follows Sakura into the bathroom to tell her to give up (not in the manga).

Also, they add a fist fight right at the begining of their battle, which is good because we barely see that in the manga. I love when Ino gets the upper hand and is about to punch Sakura but then remembers when she was little and slaps her instead.

Those are things I noticed so far, I might make another post as I keep reading/watching. It just seems like Kishimoto realized Sakura was lacking and decided to add more to her character in the anime, but in no way is manga Sakura better than anime Sakura. Actually, it seems like it´s the other way around. And it sucks that they had to make Ino meaner in the anime because in the manga she´s just a cool girl.

[starkid-smosh]

i think the damangela hate train since last year is the reason i disant myself from smoshtwt and block those who were part of that fuckass hate train. mind u i dont even ship damangela myself,, i just don't like the mean spiteful energy the other shippers were to them, and it's affecting me a lot.

Yeah like their negativity affects more than just damangela fans, and I don't think they realize that. They want to annoy Damien and damangela fans with their rudeness but are really affecting pretty much everyone who isn't involved in the "joke." I mean you aren't even a damangela fan/shipper and it's affecting you like I'm really sorry it's bringing you down too when you aren't even the one they're trying to target. Their hatefulness is really so unnecessary 90% of the time and it's just hard to be around too much. Like I don't even have twitter but just like to lurk in my fandoms' twitter fanbases sometimes but I really can't go over there too long without just getting annoyed. I recommend just keeping your distance from and blocking anyone who's being too mean or aggressive tbh. I'm sure there are plenty of normal people on smoshtwt once you weed through the loud mean ones lol.

And like I know smoshblr isn't perfect, but I feel like any negativity just stays on @smosh-fessions (or even like @smoshsfavoritepizzaplace bc that blog has lowkey turned into another confessions page recently lol), but that makes sense because confession pages are breeding grounds for negativity. But that's pretty much the only place where people are negative here and any time anyone DOES say anything mean, it's met with 10 people being like "wtf dude stop" instead of 10 people piling on like on smoshtwt. Idk I just wish they realized they just look like bullies over there and aren't being "cool" or "funny" by being rude.

[epickiya722]

You know what the reactions to the epilogues to JJK and MHA taught me?

That certain cues that people who clearly feel some kind of way about certain ships can only be romantic for their ships and their ships only and said cues are only "romantic" for them and they get off feeling "right" and actually just enjoying whatever they have.

I'll explain.

There was a time that a ship had to be canon if they kissed or got married onscreen. If not that, them being canon will be stated by the actual creator themselves.

Regardless, that wouldn't stop shippers of shipping who they wanted because, at least for some of us, shipping is fun. It should be.

Shipping stemmed from characters, regardless of gender, having intense moments, or acting a certain way around another character they wouldn't with others, and sometimes even their character designs and traits will tie into another character's.

Those kind of things is what some would say a ship is implied. It could be canon, it could not be.

Implied, I say, because at the end of the day the creator didn't confirm anything and even still said cues like that can be seen as romantic or platonic.

But this also those same cues don't have to mean anything. They could just be mere coincidences because hey, sometimes the creator doesn't keep track with everything when creating characters and writing stories. (I would know.)

"Implied" cues don't just stop for same gender ships. This goes for different gender ships, too.

I'll say it, I feel like nowadays, people confuse "implied" with "canon".

Oh, yes, MHA and JJK fandoms, I am saying those ships to me feel more implied because of the openness of them.

See, what's funny to me is I have seen people say a certain green haired MC with freckles blushing at any other time will mean nothing with other characters, but with a certain pink themed space girl and I'm not talking Ashido it means something romantic.

That is entirely unfair to me. So it's only romantic for just you and your ship, but not it can't for any other ship and someone else? Why do you get to dictate that?

Personally, I see blushing as just a physical reaction with multiple meanings. It's the meanings of that blushing that may get me to go "Oh, see how he/she/they are around this character". But at the end of the day, that doesn't mean for me my ship is canon because no matter it's status, if I like it and it's my preference, I'm shipping it.

"They held hands!"

So did green boy and boom boom boy and y'all didn't say they were anon! So did green boy and glasses class president! Does that mean they're canon? Trying to figure out why holding hands can mean your ship is canon, but not for other ships.

"They got married at the end and had kids!"

First off, grandkids. Not kids. We don't know how many kids that sword-wielding, don't get no sleep, wore skinny jeans and high tops guy had. We just know he had at least one kid to who then had children of their own.

Second, if that was canon, I'm sure the mangaka would have mentioned the grandmother. But we didn't even get a hint.

"But the grandson looks like---"

Ah! But who said it was through the grandmother though? Couldn't the kid's mom or father been a distant relative to that family? Or even there just happen to have been someone unrelated to that family, but happens to have similar physical features?

"Can't believe the mangaka would betray us like this."

But how? Did our pink haired MC expressed romantic feelings at all for her? No. Not even in the middle school flashback.

Honestly, it's gotten to the point that whenever someone says a ship is "canon" regardless if they hate it or not, it's annoying.

Over the past few months I have felt nothing but disappointment. Not surprised by anything, but felt disappointment.

"Implied" is a word that does exist. And "canon" shouldn't stop you from having fun with your ships.

And people, just because your ship is "canon" doesn't mean you have to act like a complete asshole to others. You just look like disgusting, frankly. And you don't look happy.

See someone who is happy about their ship wouldn't harass and laugh at people. They would just rejoice and post cute little edits and art and whatnot.

You harassing someone like "Ha ha, my ship is canon and yours is not" is you being childish and feeling insecure about your ship. You had that fear of your ship being canon when whether or not it was you should have just enjoyed it. You harassing someone is just you being more satisfied being right than the actual ship itself.

[belphiegore]

Here are just my overall thoughts about the MHA epilogue and the fandom response.

We don’t know if the leaks are real, they probably are, but until it’s confirmed we keep it open. AI can be crazy these days.

I’m upset about my ship yes, but not in the way people would think. I’m fully aware, most BkDk shippers are fully aware, that the ship wasn’t going to be canon, it never was. Shipping is a way to have fun, to look at the story through a different lens. Queer interpretations of literature and anime is not a new development. The reason I’m a little upset is because I know the IzuOcha moment will make ‘those’ people feel comfortable to be toxic towards fans who enjoyed same sex ships in anime, especially BkDk enjoyers. To be quite frank, most of the people doing the bragging aren’t what I’d call “true shippers” just people who hate same sex ships and are happy to see even the smallest inkling of confirmation of a straight ship so that they can rub it in the faces of others. Because let’s be honest, the IzuOcha moment was nothing more than that, just a small intimate moment that can imply romance just like all the other moments between them in the anime and manga so far. It’s nothing big like a kiss, so it’s not like the two were even confirmed to be together at all. Fans of the ship still had plenty to go off on and imagine them together afterwards, and fans of other ships have enough experience to just keep on shipping. Canon doesn’t matter, it’s just about doing what you want. Overall, it’s not an issue. At this point in time I do think that Horikoshi would’ve been smarter to completely refrain from any romantic moments in the end, as the bigger a popular fandoms is, it’s more likely to (sadly) contain people who get way too into shipping discourse, and begin displaying toxic behaviors. Now everybody keep in mind, shipping isn’t the problem. Shipping is fine. It’s fine for fans to feel upset about their ships, it’s a normal part of fandom culture. The problem comes when toxic behavior begins to become prevalent: doxxing, threats, bullying, offensive/bigoted language, harassment, mass reporting, and such are not acceptable. Long comment threads arguing with someone online for an hour or longer is just straight up annoying, I’m sure we can all agree. However I’m sure the discourse will die down, and the toxic behavior will stop. We just have to wait and abstain from disrespectful behavior.

Now about Izuku’s rejection of Katsuki. First, I’ve seen people saying Bakugo wanted Izuku to be his sidekick, which isn’t likely. While Bakugo is rejecting interns and sidekicks, I see it as him waiting for Izuku and trying to leave room for him in his agency. He doesn’t want Izuku as a sidekick he wants to be a duo. He doesn’t want to fill his agency with sidekicks and just call it a day, he wants someone to stand side by side with him and constantly challenge him and support him to be better.

I think with this ending Horikoshi is conveying that while Izuku is going to be a hero again, and is still friends with Katsuki and will still support and compete with him, he doesn’t want Katsuki to be “tied down”? (I don’t know how to explain it) When Izuku turns down Bakugo’s offer, Izuku ISN’T saying “no, I don’t value you or what you did for me”. He’s saying, “I’m thankful for what you did, I love and care about you but I don’t want you to be dependent on me. I have to make my own choices separate from you and put myself first.” Which is a good message. A great one. However I think it’s should have been made a little…clearer? So far the scene has Bakugo seemingly be left behind (again) saying “when everyone is special to you… no one is really special”. As if he feels abandoned. This seems like it’s against how their relationship has been defined throughout the story. It’s not about the ship, it never was about the ship for me. It’s about the relationship and development between two characters that I became so invested in.

One of the biggest things I enjoyed about MHA is these two characters. I enjoyed Deku’s ‘favoritism’ towards Bakugo, it’s a flaw, but an interesting one, and one that isn’t detrimental to his character as it can also be seen as a beneficial trait. Everyone has a person who holds a special weight, someone that they prioritize over others. This can be a bad thing and a good thing. I think this aspect of Bakugo and Deku’s relationship with each other is what drew so many to be so invested in their characters. I’ve always described the two of them as being soulmates in every sense of the word. Intrinsically tied together, despite the odds and despite their feelings. One cannot be without the other. Some might agree this is detrimental in a relationship, and I would say in real life it could be, but for two characters who’s writing and developments evolve in tandem with each other, it just makes sense to me. For them to be forever tied together. It’s good that Deku potentially doesn’t want them to become “just rivals” however to me, it was presented in a way that makes it pretty easy for people, to see it as out of left field with Deku straight up ‘rejecting’ Bakugo, when for the whole series one of his greatest wishes is to be at Katsuki’s side. I think the conclusion, that “no one is really special” is something that just hurts as a BkDk lover, and to me, seemingly goes against the development of their relationship.

Thankfully it seems that Katsuki says “See you”, not letting himself be left behind. He’s hurt and sad about Izuku’s rejection, but he’s still going to be close with him, he’ll still be Izuku’s friend and biggest supporter, he’s just not chasing after him. I suppose it’s implying that instead of chasing after one another, they’ll stand side by side. Not together as one, but together as individuals. Again, I wish it was a little clearer, as it gives this sense of openness that doesn’t really fit this story as an ending. I thought Chapter 430 was probably the better note to end off on, as it gives you that bittersweet feeling but ends on a final overwhelmingly positive note. The dream is realized, friends support friends, everything is final and conclusive. Nothing open that can be twisted negatively. But that’s just my personal opinion.

All in all, I’m not sure how to feel. It hurts a bit, it feels bittersweet. Because you worry. You know the two of them are so close, practically bound together, but you worry that they’ll grow apart, that their relationship will never be what was imagined. I don’t truly know the meaning of the scene, these are just my thoughts. Until Horikoshi confirms the leaks, we won’t definitely know his intentions for the scene and the ending. All I know is that I feel a little sad in my worry that these fictional characters I’m so ridiculously hung up on won’t be together anymore. And that’s okay. It’s okay for people to be so invested. It’s part of what keeps a fandom alive. Everyone just needs to keep in mind to be nice to each other. We went through such a nice period of calm when we thought ch 430 was the last chapter, please let this die down and we can return to that calm. We can all analyze, theorize, make fanart, create fix-it’s and rewrites once this is all over.

[sevensoulmates]

Hi I just wanted to say I was on twitter and saw someone discussing and sharing your meta posts and I was genuinely intrigued and curious because you guys are obviously so devoted to the buddie couple and it's really endearing. And I was just really interesed about this perception of the couple you guys seem to have because is so different to the other side of the fandom I'm actively interacting with. I'm obviously a B/T shipper and only got into the fandom because of them but I'm really loving the show (currently I'm on season 5). I'm just curious about how is it that you guys see buddie as romantic when I think their interactions are clearly platonic, they obviously have a deep relationship, an intimate friendship but no more that that.

Again, I'm not trying to hate I just wanted to ask because it looks like the buddie shippers are settling themselves for disappointment just waiting for them to go canon. You all are obviously loyal fans and I think that's lovely but I honestly just don't see the show writing Eddie as queer now and I really think Tommy is here to stay (I think there's too many signs pointing to this fact like the buck actually episode and the old guy named Thomas). Again I'm not here trying to hate because I think you guys love the ship genuinely but I just wonder how is it that after all the things the shows portrays you guys are still rooting for buddie. Please feel free to ignore my question if I'm annoying you, I really don't want to come off as rude I was just really interesed in the topic.

There are a boatload of reasons why I and many other people ship Buddie. Most of them are far too long to get to in one ask like this because Buddie have had 6 years worth of material to sort through and it would just take far too long.

Long story short: in the same way that Buck was confirmed bisexual over the course of a single episode after years of many people saying Buck could never be anything other than straight, Buddie could be made canon in one single episode and it would be accepted just as easily even though it's been years and a lot of people are still saying they could never be together.

It's TV. The writers can do whatever they want. The second they decide to start bringing in more explicitly romantic things, people will suddenly start "getting" it.

To be more precise: I think it's easy for people to see a ship like Bucktommy and latch onto it because it's very clearly, explicitly queer. It's a lot harder for people to believe in or "see" ships where a queer couple hasn't done anything explicitly romantic like kiss or hold hands, etc. It's unfortunately due to heternomativity and the sad death of the slow burn. I can't really do anything about either of those things.

For me, the primary reason I ship buddie is because of the deep special bond and obvious family they've built over the years that feels different from every single other relationship they've had with literally anyone else on the show. That includes Tommy, Shannon, Abby, etc. You can view it as platonic if you want, that's anyone's subjective opinion.

You seem like a sweet person, but you're also coming into the show with a bias towards Bucktommy, which is fine. They're what brought you to the show, they're the ones who initially intrigued you, and they're also the only ones currently explicitly queer. I get it.

I am going to be so honest with you: I think the show has been writing both Buck and Eddie as queer men for many many years. But just like how Buck was only allowed to confirm it this most recent season, they haven't been able to confirm it for Eddie just yet. I could write essays and essays about how Eddie is so obviously deep deep in compulsory heterosexuality and has been almost since the beginning, but it would take too long. There's plenty of posts I and others have made all over tumblr and on my blog.

Slow queer burns featuring characters that aren't introduced in the first 5 seconds as queer are almost non-existent, they very rarely happen in popular media, and because of that it's almost impossible to ship something without someone coming at you saying "they don't see it". Fact of the matter is that Buddie is one of the easiest ships to "see", if you were looking at a man and a woman, but they're not. I can't really convince people to see what they don't want to see.

If you're curious about the specifics, I'd encourage you to go through my blog/meta or other buddie-positive blogs on tumblr to find many talented and intelligent individuals who will have a lot to say on why they believe in buddie.

When it comes down to it, I don't think the fandom at large is ever gonna believe it until they see it. That's kinda just human nature and the state of how we all consume media right now.

But once the show does go there, they're gonna be like damn can't believe I didn't see that until now while the rest of us sit here like "we've been trying to tell you this whole time."

In the meantime, I'm enjoying Bucktommy for what it is, for however long it lasts, and I'm gonna enjoy buddie just the same, regardless of if they go canon or not, or how long it takes.