#i try not to get too annoyed at those shippers but

[hyohaehyuk]

I think a lot of people are not understanding one thing about this show: Louis have an eating disorder caused by his rejections of being a vampire and a queer man. Eating animals and rejecting eating humans is not a normal diet for vampires and is not the same as veganism/vegetarianism like i have seen some keep saying. In the AR' vampire universe is not just the blood but also the hunt and the memories they get from the victims that get them healthy. Even the way Louis eats in present days is weird af (even tho is consumes more human blood provided by his unethically farm) bc he is forcing himself to eat human food too (the whole thing is weird af. watch it again now with the image of him having a eating disorder in mind and you will see what i am saying)

Everything Lestat was doing (especially between ep 2/3) was trying to make Louis eat properly but all his desperate attempts was just pushing Louis away. The reason he brought Antoinette to their house was to recreate their 1st time with Miss Lily (bc if it worked 1 time surely it work another🤦). I think he was hoping that Louis would feed out of Antoinette and maybe even kill her. Same reason (besides the pride and bad communication) of why he opened their relationship. He was hoping that while he was hooking-up with someone he would feed from it but instead Louis chose someone who it had story (maybe to piss Lestat. I think this will be revised in season 3 bc i remember seeing on twitter that Lestat was next to Antoinette but once he he sees Louis talking with Jonah he is in another place far from her). He was already mad that Louis eating disorder was taking a tool on their relationship (which is why he start cheating 💀) but suddenly Louis was in the mood for some sex with someone else and on top of it Lestat also had to watch him hurting dogs (which maybe we will see in season 3 that human lestat loves dogs) instead of feeding on his hook-up human being.

The saddest thing is that there is nothing Lestat could have done to help (if you watched the last season of heartstopper Nick was dealing with a similar situation with Charlie and everyone's attempting to help him was actually making it worse). Things would only start getting better if the person admit to themselves and others they have a problem and seek for professional help which unfortunately for Louis was a thing that didn't exist at the time. Thankfully Louis at the end of season 2 finally accepted himself so on season 3 we will see a completely new Louis and i don't think Lestat will be ready for that Louis 🤭. Tho I hope Louis is not automatically cured in season 3. I think he will still mess it up occasionally until he gets cured for real.

Anyway, i hope they revise this (and a few other things) in season 3 bc it seems that a lot of people still dont get it. There is a chance of them doing that bc depressed Lestat was also feeding out of rats just like Louis was and maybe they could touch on this when doing connections with Nicky depression. i think we will see a lot of connections related how Lestat dealt with Louis and Claudia bc of his relationship with Nicky and his family, particularly his mother. Since Daniel works like the public voice maybe he will be the one doing those connections especially now that Daniel is a vampire and knows more about how it works.

i do think loustat in the show are monogamous, however given the nature of the vampirism they still have to seduce their victims to feed so i can see them hooking up with the victims before killing them but that dont make them non-monogamous in my eyes bc that would involve them actually having feelings for others.

And no, i dont think Louis was in love with Armand (he was attracted at most. i will not go much in depth into their relationship bc i don't want loum*nd shippers annoying the shit out of me. the only thing i am gonna say is that their relationship was all about Lestat: it started bc of him, continued after Paris bc of him and ended bc of him) and Lestat with Antoinette (she was more like his therapist so he could vent about Louis and Claudia. if he had love her he would have told her she could had attached any human' finger to hers after he made her cut her finger. He only keep her 1st bc she was giving him the devotion Louis was refusing to, 2nd bc it still made Louis' jealous which casually he would show it and then bc he needed her to spy on Louis and Claudia. if you guys noticed Louis was quite undecided in going forward Claudia plan of killing Lestat, until he brought Antoinette. It was then (especially when petty Lestat call her "love") when he made up his mind. That was Lestat worst mistake that night bc he knew about their plan and was trying to make Louis not going through it but then does that 🤦)

louis and lestat wouldn’t even hesitate to walk out into the sun if the other ceased to exist and people think they would ever consider polyamory. it’s just not realistic. they invented monogamy and the soul being irrevocably tied to one other soul for eternity and beyond

[min-kit]

Okie seeing this take on here but did Lou in any way confirm that bucktommy is a stepping stone to buddie??

No, I don't have the links to anything he's said, but he's been playing nice about buddie cuz ppl have ofc asked him about them (in the way that "hey is bucktommy a stepping stone for buddie" type way), but he's also kinda gently pressed to give bucktommy a chance. Which only makes sense! Like he's an actor, and 911 is one of the most popular scripted series on television right now. He wants to stick around! (I want him to stick around coughs)

People (certain shippers) just like to say everyone has said bucktommy is a stepping stone for buddie when no one has said that at all, and Tim has in fact said that buddie is not in the works right now. Oliver has said that he doesn't even know if he wants buddie to happen, but that he'd be open to the possibility of it should they decide to take the story in that direction (but has also said he doesn't want to tell the story of a man discovering he is bisexual and automatically be seen as having feelings for his male friends).

But people take all of these other things of them going "I could see this [about buddie]" and taking it as a confirmation of things to come for Buck & Eddie when... that's not what they're saying at all.

I've decided not to worry about it & enjoy the ride Tim is going to take us on & considering he keeps calling BuckTommy a "love story" and a "rom-com", well.....

[rosamariaa]

my top 5 favorite book wolfstar moments

this is all for funsies. I'm going to be very honest here: I don't really think wolfstar is implied in the books, but I feel like if I put my shipper googles I CAN prove that those two were, at least, a bit weird about each other!

1. Remus "ideals" going askrew for Sirius:

We have two moments in the books where we see Remus being pretty ruthless when it came to the war, he thinks that if there's a way to put a enemy down then you should do it:

prisioner of azkaban, chapter eighteen:

"You should have realized," said Lupin quietly, "if Voldemort didn't kill you, we would. Good-bye, Peter."

deathly hollows, chapter 5:

Lupin looked aghast. “Harry, the time for Disarming is past! These people are trying to capture and kill you! At least Stun if you aren’t prepared to kill!”

However, when he was talking to Harry about Sirius reciving the dementor's kiss this is what Mr. Lupin has to offer:

prisioner of azkaban, chapter twelve:

[...] Lupin drank a little more butterbeer, then said, "It's the fate that awaits Sirius Black. It was in the Daily Prophet this morning. The Ministry have given the dementors permission to perform it if they find him." [...] "He deserves it," [harry] said suddenly. "You think so?" said Lupin lightly. "Do you really think anyone deserves that?"

This makes me actually go bonkers like... When he found out it was Peter all along he was full on ready to kill him but when he belived it was Sirius doing the same damn thing then suddenly no one deserves it... christ we see you remus lupin, we see you...

2. Moving in thogeter

I don't even have anything to say for this one just.. *gestures vaguely*

Order of the phoenix, chapter 6:

[...] and Lupin, who was staying in the house with Sirius but who left it for long periods to do mysterious work for the Order [...]

It's so funny cos like... he didn't need to do that... no one else is staying there even though it's the order's HQ.

And we know that as poor as Remus is he does have a house (Sirius stays there for a bit at the end of GOF) so he just... moves in... just because. yea.

a little extra scene that it's kinda funny, imagine finding out your teacher and godfather are dating by calling said godfather and said teacher picks up... lol :

Harry opened his eyes to find that he was looking up out of the kitchen fireplace at the long, wooden table, where a man sat poring over a piece of parchment. “Sirius?” The man jumped and looked around. It was not Sirius, but Lupin. “Harry!” he said, looking thoroughly shocked. “What are you — what’s happened, is everything all right?”

3. Remus is Sirius' good boy

Okay I will try not to ramble about this one but... I can't help it. He quite literally calls Remus a good boy you can not make this shit up.

Order of the phoenix, chapter 9:

Sirius, who was right beside Harry, let out his usual barklike laugh. “No one would have made me a prefect, I spent too much time in detention with James. Lupin was the good boy, he got the badge.”

I think what drives me insane about this one is that even though Remus had the same sense of humor as the other boys (although his was quieter and dry), they were a bit different. Sirius himself says that Remus would make them feel ashamed of themselves sometimes and, of course it depends on how you view Sirius, but to me I feel like he is a person that doesn't really put up with things just to please someone and so I feel like if it were a random person he would just go like "Well if you don't like what we do fuck off I guess" but since it was Remus he doesn't get annoyed at all and it makes it seem like he has a soft spot for Remus:

Order of the phoenix, chapter 29:

“Of course he was a bit of an idiot!” said Sirius bracingly. “We were all idiots! Well — not Moony so much,” he said fairly, looking at Lupin, but Lupin shook his head.

likeee that's his boy!!

4. Giving harry a joint present

You see, this one is very funny to me bc I was watching Sex and the city a few weeks ago and there's a scene where Carrie takes Mr. Big as her plus one to a wedding and of course she asks him to put his name on the present and he just. refuses. He has several commitment issues and even tho they were together for months at that point he thought a joint present "was too much".

And naturally my first thought was "oh wow that's so crazy bc in the children's book series 'Harry Potter', harry's godfather and teacher gave him a joint present without second thought". After moving in together. yea.

Order of the phoenix, chapter 23:

Sirius and Lupin had given Harry a set of excellent books entitled Practical Defensive Magic and Its Use Against the Dark Arts, [...]

how does that makes you feel mr.big

5. Intimacy

Last but not least (literally I think this is my favorite?) three moments that I think it shows us just how close those two are. Not even romantically, but in friendship too.

Order of the Phoenix, chapter 14:

[...] said Sirius with a wry smile. “I know she’s a nasty piece of work, though — you should hear Remus talk about her.”

We know Remus is a Nice Guy. He does everything he can to maintain at least a civil relationship with the people around him (save moments of distrees and his little cynical comments in poa, of course). And so the fact that he has a little "can I be mean?" moment with Sirius is just so funny... I just know Sirius supports all Remus' moments of haterism <3

Order of the phoenix, chapter 5:

“Molly, you’re not the only person at this table who cares about Harry,” said Lupin sharply. “Sirius, sit down.” Mrs. Weasley’s lower lip was trembling. Sirius sank slowly back into his chair, his face white

Order of the phoenix, chapter 29:

“I’m coming up there to have a word with Snape!” said Sirius force-fully and he actually made to stand up, but Lupin wrenched him backdown again.

I know people always talks about those 2 moments with the sense of like... oh wow remus asks and Sirius obeys thats hot and I AGREE it's the same thing I said before: If it was anyone else I think he would go "fuck off no" but since it's Remus he just do it unquestioned.

but ALSO. I feel like it does show how close they are... Close enough to push someone backwards etc those two lived together for more than a decade... they are Close and are used to each other and I think that's beautiful :')

[olderthannetfic]

So, you mentioned low standards of research in podcasts. I don't listen to podcasts or watch a lot of videos about fandom analysis, but I have seen error corrections happening in the wild for what I have listened to, so I can only imagine how annoying it is when you know your shit.

Do you have any resources that come to mind as things everyone who likes fandom should be comfortable with, or specific essays on uniquely important fandoms (such as Sherlock Holmes or Star Trek) that everyone should read? Obviously the OTW resources are up there; what else?

Aside from resources, do you think there are any skills that are especially vital for getting to the bottom of fandom trends? Interview skills are probably pretty high up there.

Any pitfalls you see a lot of young fans falling into?

(I do a lot of fandom history research. It is the thing that gives me joy in fandom; other people like shipping or AUs, I like my little mini-anthropology sandbox and watching how ideas spread. I'm not necessarily good at it, but it's fun!)

--

Well... it's the usual things.

For example, a lot of fans claim to love fandom stats, but the ones that get passed around come from like three people. The people doing those stats, including me, don't usually have a statistics background, which doesn't automatically make them bad, but it really seems like people are just trusting anything with a pie chart.

We've recently seen people discover that those year-end AO3 ship stats have a seriously weird methodology. They don't show the thing their fans are actually trying to find out. People were pissed. But most of the time, they don't even bother asking what the methodology is or trying to do anything themselves.

There's far too much sitting back and waiting for some BNF to spoon feed one publicly-available information.

--

The big failings aren't usually the math itself but, of course, not knowing what question to ask, so it pertains to history research, not just stats.

You'll see a lot of stuff on shipping that looks at AO3 because AO3 shipping numbers are easy to pull... But AO3 shipping numbers don't just happen to be easy to pull: that is both an effect and a cause that is directly related to AO3's content. Someone interested in meta shouldn't be asking "What do AO3's numbers show?" as their first question. They should be asking "Why is this metadata available or not available and what does that mean on a sociological level?"

--

Thing two is the eternal I Have Apparently Never Heard of Anime problem. A fuckton of people theorizing about fandom trends seem to know fucking nothing about whole massive sectors of fandom or treat them as afterthoughts. This is okay if you're writing a history of Media Fandom. It is criminally stupid if you're trying to talk about what makes a piece of media have fic when another doesn't, what kinds of websites make fandoms take off, etc. Those kinds of broad questions need a broad understanding of what's out there.

It's not anime-specific, and I'm not asking for a high degree of knowledge.

I have routinely had people tell me that best friend ships and mystery/crime as a genre aren't popular, and that's why AO3 has this or that pattern... Meanwhile, buddy cops are the bedrock of oldschool slash fandom and make up basically all of the longest-running Western m/m fandoms that aren't Star Trek. CSI slop tends to have legions of future canon het shippers, and they make plenty of fanworks. It's just that some of this is more visible on FFN or older places, not AO3.

I'm always seeing things like someone speculating about how this and that anime fandom thing or bit of mid-00s FFN community drama led to this other thing on AO3, not realizing that AO3 came out of LJ Western fandom slash culture. To them, FFN is so central that it must be the main reference point, not the bajillion and one archives AO3 founders ran or Usenet or mailing lists or LJ.

I once saw someone asking on twitter about where a prominent Ranma fic might have been posted in the mid-90s. People claiming "My professor is an authority!" came out of the woodwork in droves to blither about K/S zines and then LJ. Not only was this entirely wrong, but the right answer was blindingly obvious if you knew enough to interpret the google results. I can only assume that the person tweeting had never heard of Usenet and didn't recognize the acronym for the big anime fanfic group that literally everything like this was first posted to.

I'm talking people insisting that fandom only goes for white characters when it's very obvious that fandom goes for majority leads who are not othered. All the bawwing in the world about "People assume anime characters are white" won't get rid of The Untamed or Kpop thirsters or whatever.

I'm talking sweeping pronouncements about gender and fanfic writers where the person hasn't even heard of FIMFiction or SpaceBattles or Dark Lord Potter cheesefests.

I've been in fandom for a long time, but I wasn't in all these parts, and I wasn't around for 80s zines. You don't need deep knowledge until you pick a research topic. But it's shocking how little shallow, broad knowledge a lot of people have when they're writing their Theory Of All Of Fandom History.

--

People are stupid as shit about survivorship bias, and fandom history is no exception. They're also dumb in the opposite direction, assuming that the thing they like now has always existed in this exact form.

For example, someone got mad at Fanlore for supposedly not documenting the history of f/f zines. Others have searched and searched for the zines of their old show they got into last year and are bewildered to not find any. The reality is that Fanlore editors are attempting to document every Media Fandom zine and have combed through old adzines looking for any mention of anything. Because of the methods of distribution—because it was expensive—small fandoms often had no zines at all.

Femslash fandom doesn't seem to have gotten enough critical mass to do much until Xena. The internet has really democratized things, but even the early internet was still somewhat in that old mindset where only certain popular things have a fandom. I think Yuletide itself, which started in 2003, really helped spread the idea of rare-but-existing fandoms being a thing. FFN and perhaps some other multifandom archives like Media Miner played a huge role.

Nowadays, we think of fic as just how you respond to media, any media, even if there are only two fics for that one car commercial, but that isn't how people saw things in every era—or at least it's not how fandom infrastructure worked. A lot of the time, the big hosting spots were single-fandom archives, often with restrictive content rules. Finding somewhere to post a m/m/f OT3 fic used to be hard. Never mind early zines when photocopiers didn't even exist yet and you had to sell out your print run of 500 to make a go of it.

All good research starts with a lot of preliminary investigation to figure out what you're even trying to look for.

Actually bothering to look for fans talking about their own history or casually chatting with your interview subjects before the formal interview will put a person miles ahead of many of the cringeworthy fandom ~papers~ I've seen.

The biggest mistake people make is going "Okay, these numbers aren't perfect, but some numbers are better than no numbers".

Bullshit.

As soon as there's a pie chart of the false numbers, everyone's brain turns off and they never look at the chart subtitle, never mind the research notes.

Bad numbers are often worse than no numbers.

Look at the logic behind the methodology first. Look at the social context. Basic understanding of human nature and familiarizing oneself with the shape and hangout locations of a community will get you most of the way there before you sit down for a specific interview or try to collect any specific numbers.

--

None of this is a fandom thing. Research is research. It's just that most people think "research" means watching a tiktok that the algorithm likes and were never taught how to evaluate a source for reliability.

Evaluating sources is a skill. I had explicit lessons on it in school. Lots of people don't, and that sucks.

Honestly, watching the more thoughtful debunking content on non-fandom topics, like Miniminuteman's stuff on pseudo-archaeology or Dan Olson's... everything, is a good window into critical thinking, and that's most of what's missing from bad fandom history.

--

But more than any of that, more is more. Not the crap stats, but the narrower, more personal accounts, the interviews. The more fans who investigate their little corner that isn't the same old AO3 site-wide "Why is there so much m/m?" ship stats or the same canned "Everything comes from K/S" history, the better.

What I object to is not amateur efforts but efforts that pull from the same small pool of data or that just reblog a tiny handful of supposed authorities.

--

If people are going to read just one thing... hmm... go try to look up a history of rec.arts.anime.creative, not because I think it's the most important fandom history out there but because it's at the nexus of things a lot of current fandom history work miss.

[jeonscatalyst]

https://www.tumblr.com/jeonscatalyst/760242773222883328/this-all-of-this-and-every-single-bit-of-this?source=share

I do agree with this person's analysis of Jimin and Jungkook personalities, and I also agree that to some extent Jungkook's affection being rarer than Jimin's does make it more special to some fans, but where I disagree is that I don't think that's the main reason why fans seem to put more weight in what Jungkook does than what Jimin does.

Because while some fans will put this much thought on the differences in jikook's personalities, I don't think it's the majority that does. It's kinda of a problem we have actually. If people realised that Jimin and Jungkook are two different people with different ways of showing affection, then we wouldn't have to keep seeing the same stupid takes on their relationship over and over again. It's people expecting jikook to always do to the other the exact same thing the other did to them that causes so much annoying discourse.

But you know what a lot of shipper do love doing? Competing with one another. Competition is one of the main things in every k-pop fandom and sub-fandom, shippers are no exception. And when it comes to jikookers we all know the competition is with taekookers. We're always at each other's throats, let's be honest. And some spend just as much time taking about the rival ship as they do talking about their own ship.

Which leads me to what I believe is the real main reason why both sides (not just jikookers) view Jungkook's actions as more important. It's because he's the in-common person to both ships. He's like the main character in a love triangle. He's the one that ultimately decides who gets together in the end, not the two love interests, so their actions don't matter as much.

The point of contention with shippers has never really been whether or not Jimin or Taehyung like Jungkook, that's already assumed to be the case. With solos it's definitely an argument, but jikookers and taekookers focus more on each other than in solos. No, the real question has always been who does Jungkook like more: Jimin or Taehyung?

If Jimin declares his love for Jungkook jikookers will of course love that, but if Jungkook is the one who does it it'll matter more because it can be used against taekookers. Taekookers don't care if Jimin loves Jungkook or not, what he feels doesn't matter to them. Nothing Jimin says can prove anything to them. The confirmation has to come from Jungkook, that's the only way they'll care about it. And jikookers do care about one-upping taekookers. If we didn't we wouldn't spend so much time trying to prove to them that we're right.

There's been plenty of times when I've seen something that used to not matter suddenly become important the moment people realize it could be used in the shipping competition. It's a sort of 'I didn't care that much about that thing I have until I realized it could make the other side jealous'. Or 'I didn't want that thing until the other side got it and now I want it too'.

Things naturally hold more importance to people when those things have not only their own inherent value but also when they have the added bonus of pissing off someone you don't like. Jimin's love for Jungkook is important by itself but Jungkook's love for Jimin is seen as more important because it will also piss off taekookers.

I'm pretty sure that if the two biggest ships were jikook and vmin instead, then the most important thing suddenly would be Jimin's affection, regardless of how affectionate he is with everyone.

Again, I do agree some fans do consider jikook's differences and that that does influence how they value their actions, it's just that I think there's a bigger reason here.

I hope this didn't come across as me being a contrarian for the sake of it, I just wanted to add a separate perspective on the subject because I've had this opinion for a while and it seemed relevant to the topic. I also hope I was not to harsh on my opinions of other jikookers, but no fandom is without it's flaws and I think it's important to acknowledge them.

Anon, I owe you a cold beer right now because it seems like you read my mind.

This is exactly what I think too. It’s just mostly about the competition, the shipwars, the fights and the need to “win”. That’s really why people think Jungkook’s actions hold more meaning that Vmins. It’s like Jungkook is the prize that Vmin are desperately trying to win and every action or word of his is used as an affirmation or debunking. “Jungkook did this with Tae but didn’t do that with Jimin so Tae is his boyfriend”….just an endless cycle of bullshit.

Anyone who is mature and experienced enough understands that Jimin and Jungkook don’t have to express themselves exactly the same for things to be mutual. Jimin could say “I love you” to Jungkook and Jungkook wouldn’t say it back but would prefer to make a video of Jimin. So many people would say Jungkook didn’t reciprocate just because he didn’t do things exactly the way Jimin did when the truth is that he did, just in his own way.

When I see people coming up with useless takes or comparisons about their bond it pisses me off to no end because it’s the little things that Jungkook does. People would get pissed at Jungkook and say that he doesn’t show love to Jimin as much as Jimin does just because Jimin would constantly touch him, ask him to eat alot and is very vocal about his affection but Jungkook remembering that Jimin likes his food spicy and trying to make it just how Jimin likes it apparently means nothing because Jungkook wasn’t shouting on a roof top or Jungkook thinking of what to cook in Jeju and knowing that Jimin would love it doesn’t matter because he didn’t stand on a podium and announce it or Jungkook quietly getting water for Jimin and giving him to drink without him asking doesn’t mean a thing because he didn’t carry Jimin on his head. Sometimes I don’t even have the energy to argue because if only people understood Jungkook they would know that Jungkook doesn’t treat anyone the same way he does Jimin.

I personally can see how someone might naturally value Jungkook’s actions more because Jimin is a natural caring, nurturing and loving person to everyone so sometimes it is hard to tell if his actions mean more or it is just him being himself but with Jungkook, he tries as much as possible to be impartial but he just cannot help it when it comes to Jimin. He is pretty kind and caring towards everyone he loves too but not the same way Jimin does it plus Jungkook tends to go big when he expresses his affection for Jimin. So with Jimin we get little bits of love and affection more frequently than we get from Jungkook but once we get one from Jungkook, it is usually news worthy and kinda exclusive to Jimin so it hits harder.

I dunno. I might have gone off topic but like I said, I 100% agree with you.

[puttersmile]

Why I like Dogday x Bobby Bearhug

Working off of my last Crittertember post, posting the shipping manifesto for the four of you who are just dying to know, lol.

Part 1 of Post: Here. Just a lot of pictures.

I guess I should start with how I started liking the ship in the first place. As best as I can remember it started with a mildly intense obsession with the Smiling Critters after seeing them in Poppy Playtime Chapter 3. Their carboard soundboards specifically intrigued me. As a fandom we really had ziltch to work with so maybe I was hyper-analyzing their phrases to see if anything could be gleamed from them.

There isn't much unless we are meant to believe Picky is literally a cannibal. I don't think so? I think the voice lines have been corrupted by the metric ton of death that happened within the factory. Be it as it may, what little we fanon-ize about the critters, a lot of it is probably coming from those soundboards.

A post about this already exists on tumblr but at some random point I thought, "Weird Bobby Bearhug and Dogday's cut outs sound like they are talking to one another." Not sure how my brain jumped to that conclusion but it did. As seen in this post with some old oogly art I drew.

And then @meowcola made my dream come true by editing the two voices together. Yhaass! For this I am forever grateful to my fellow shipper.

I don't think any of the other critter's voice lines bounce off of each other as well as these two do (admittedly with slight editing), or even at all. But Bobby and Dogday's cutouts almost seem to have a conversation that don't work played against any of the others. Dogday trying to push someone away that he cares for and Bobby desperately trying to stay with someone she cares for.

Dogday's fall is he cares too much.

Bobby's fall is she doesn't care enough. For herself.

Obviously they are talking to the player actually but my fanon ship brain interpreted it differently. I guess from there, albeit a doomed one, I shipped this ship fairly hard.

The rest of this rambling essay under the cut:

Why I think they work:

Dogday and Bobby’s relationship is mostly about balance. While Dogday’s the brave and daring leader of the group (except when there's a thunderstorm—he tries), Bobby’s the physically strong yet practical one. She’s a total powerhouse,(literal mama bear energy) ready to protect when needed, but only as a last resort. Dogday loves how protective she is, and Bobby really appreciates his loyalty, especially since it helps with her self-worth issues.

One of Bobby’s biggest insecurities is that she believes she’s annoying to her friends. Even though it’s clear she’s not, in the back of her mind, she constantly second-guesses her actions. She’ll wonder if hugging someone is the right move in the moment or if she’s overstepping. Dogday, on the other hand, is someone who thrives on affection and would never get tired of Bobby’s hugs, making him the perfect counter to her uncertainty.

Both of them would share a strong sense of humor, which helps them face life’s challenges with optimism. Dogday is especially good at this.  They know how to lighten the mood and bring joy to each other’s lives, even when the weight of everything starts to creep in.

Bobby’s also got a knack for stepping in when Dogday forgets to take care of himself. She’s nurturing, and in return, Dogday reminds her she’s worth it, which she sometimes forgets. Though Bobby’s not Dogday’s second-in-command (that’s usually Bubba Bubbaphant), she’s the one Dogday confides in emotionally when leadership wears him down.

Over time, Bobby finds herself leaning on Dogday, too, sharing her deepest insecurities and struggles with him.

What really makes them work is how much everyone trusts Bobby. She’s the keeper of everyone’s secrets because they just naturally open up to her. And eventually, Dogday becomes her rock, giving them this deep emotional connection where they’re both vulnerable and open with each other.

Bobby’s practicality also helps balance out Dogday’s crazier ideas. She rarely says “no” outright, but she’s good at restructuring them to make things safer or less chaotic. If safety’s not the issue, then they’re often the ones mediating when their friends have disagreements. They’ve both learned the importance of compromise and work together to bring peace to any tense situation.

I feel like their brief character descriptions show how good they would both be at this.

They’re known as the “mom and dad” of the group, always looking out for everyone’s physical and emotional well-being.

It’s funny how differently they approach things, like planning events—Dogday’s spontaneous energy versus Bobby’s structured organization—but they still make a great team.

In public, they’ve got this super cute Barbie/Ken - Mickey&Minnie vibe, showing their love for each other without hesitation. It’s strong, proud, and they never shy away from letting everyone know how much they mean to each other!

Character flaws/dark side of the ship:

At their darkest, Bobby and Dogday have some pretty complex flaws. Bobby, when she’s at her worst, can be manipulative. She’s got this way of playing on people’s emotions, sometimes twisting things to suit her needs, all while wearing a caring face. It’s like she knows people trust her and she uses that to her advantage, especially if she’s feeling insecure or threatened.

On the flip side, Dogday’s biggest weakness is his fear of hurting others. He’ll go to great lengths to avoid conflict, even if it means letting himself be hurt. He’s so afraid of causing pain or upsetting someone that he’ll bottle up his own feelings or allow himself to be taken advantage of.

This combination can be dangerous when their issues align, with Bobby’s manipulation and Dogday’s passive acceptance creating a pretty toxic dynamic in their worst moments. Thankfully this outcome is incredibly hard for me to see happening. It is still a possibility though.

(In some messed up but interesting fanfiction)

Other Stuff:

On the wiki I saw something incredibly minute but decided to go ahead and make something of it.  There is the idea, at least, that Dogday is named after “Dogstar” aka Sirius, the brightest star in the night sky. If you think about Dogday being associated with Sirius, the Dog Star, and Bobby representing Ursa Major aka The Big Dipper, in my mind it symbolizes how their relationship works.

Sirius is the brightest star, leading the way, just like Dogday, who's bold, full of energy, and always guiding others. Bobby, on the other hand, is like Ursa Major—steady, reliable, and always there to support.

Their relationship reflects that balance: Dogday’s light and leadership are complemented by Bobby’s protective, grounding nature. Together, they’re like two guiding forces—he lights the way, and she provides the strength and stability needed to stay on course.

It’s almost like he can shine brighter because he knows she’s there, holding things together.

And for Bobby, Dogday is the spark that keeps her moving forward, even when she feels uncertain.

It’s also cool how Ursa Major is used for navigation, like Bobby helps Dogday find his way emotionally. Meanwhile, Sirius has been a marker of important times like the "dog days" of summer or the flooding of the Nile river, (The flooding of the Nile is celebrated btw, it's a good thing) just as Dogday marks big changes in Bobby’s life.

They balance each other out like the constellations they represent: one a guiding light, the other a steady, protective force in the background.

I think about the cardboard cutout order. Bobby and Dogday are among the last supposedly, holding out even longer than the athletic Hoppy. I interpret that to mean Bobby on her own has a strong will and some amount of bravery.

Not to throw shade at the others who fell before, as it could have all come down to bad luck.(or bad platforming skills--burn.)  But I bring the “possible” death order up as some might say Bobby’s sweet and caring nature means she is weak or useless. I don’t think so.

This is also why I characterize Bobby as sort of a lady-like yet cute bruiser. Dogday is brave but not the strongest critter by far.  Dogday is  Zelda and Bobby is Link lol.  Bobby Bearhug is his knight in fluffy armor, and Dogday is Bobby’s warm home.

There is a tragedy to this. If Bobby was one of the last two  with Dogday in the game. (Going by the order the cardboard cutouts are seen.) I imagine she was doing her best to support him, only for Dogday to abandon Bobby near the end. As the leader, Dogday did what he thought was best and it broke her, ultimately ending them both.

How the relationship Helps them grow:

Not wanting to end this on a down note I’ll speak a bit more on how the relationship enhances both of them.

Bobby’s practical, more thoughtful approach doesn’t just temper Dogday’s adventurous spirit as what may be expected from a dynamic like this. In fact it enhances his daring. 

Yes, it'll ease him off riskier behavior but it enables him to be a more successful leader with her providing safety nets and or foundations for him to be confident. It's not just him willing confidence from within, there's another external pillar to  bolster his confidence. That pillar being her secret knowledge of their friends. While Bobby won't be spilling secrets, she'd certainly know how to guide Dogday in the right direction when it comes to helping the others.

She helps ensure that his ideas are successful and safe, so he'll not only be able to focus his energy on particulars but he'll have the confidence to be the best leader he can be, knowing he won't just come crashing down to earth.  

In turn Dogday's boundless energy, brings joy and spontaneity to Bobby’s more grounded maybe reserved, structured world.  Though she is strong she likely tends to fall back to what's familiar, to what's safe. There is strength in the familiar in the sense of you know for sure you are strong here, but out there things may be more uncertain. 

Out there you can feel weak. At least that's the perception for some with issues of self worth. But now with his energy, his enthusiasm, his optimism, and his light, she'll have the freedom to step out of her usual comfort zones and perhaps be more than she may have imagined. 

Sooo yeah. This ship is not bad. Nor is it boring. I'll never understand how this sentiment came about. Opposites attract isn't the only way a relationship can be interesting. Okay people?

 And that is all that I have to say! Thanks for listening to my CritterTalk.

[allaboutalf]

At this point Buck & Tommy shippers/multi shippers just need to not engage with the toxic buddie shippers at all. That’s what I’m going to do.

They’ve reached a level where there’s no reasoning with them and the negativity is off the charts. Anything you do now will just egg them on. Don’t quote them, don’t screenshot the weird things they say, don’t argue their theories, don’t post the anon hate, don’t try to argue sense to them. Just let them be and close the door to them so they can’t impact enjoyment of the show. Leave them to their echo chamber. Block them and don’t engage.

Instead be loud and proud about what you enjoy about the show in your own spaces and around the general public, on official accounts, and when relaying your appreciation to the cast/producers/crew/writers. Create the art and write the stories and talk to people who enjoy what you do too and let’s get back to the relatively positive space we were in just after 7.04.

The only thing I think you should still do when it comes to any toxic people is call out when they attack real people like fans, fan artists and actors and writers. When they do things to bully and harass. I think it’s good to not let that slide. I’ll still call that out.

But anything else, it’s just not worth putting yourself in that space. Let them act like toxic children over a TV show and just feed their misery to each other.

And the few extreme people on the Buck & Tommy side, I hope you can take this onboard too. Cause at first I did get it. I still do get the want to defend yourself and to push back when you’re being bullied just cause you enjoy something. But the few who are basically the Buck & Tommy version of toxic buddies now are making it harder for us all. The negativity hypes up the negativity of others, especially when you’re seeking them out to argue with no cause. The whole thing is starting to annoy those in the fandom who are neutral and those who agree with you but feel like it’s going too far now and leaving a bad taste in the mouth.

I think it’s doing the ship a disservice to be exactly the same as toxic buddie shippers cause all it does is turn people off the ship like the toxic buddies are doing to the buddie ship. And personally I just want to enjoy the ship for however long it lasts and look back with positivity whenever things are done (be it soon or way down the line).

Look obviously you do you, I’m just saying my piece and you can ignore it but I really recommend just leaving them be beyond calling out the truly terrible, toxic stuff. For your own mental health and for everyone’s enjoyment of the show.

[epickiya722]

You know what the reactions to the epilogues to JJK and MHA taught me?

That certain cues that people who clearly feel some kind of way about certain ships can only be romantic for their ships and their ships only and said cues are only "romantic" for them and they get off feeling "right" and actually just enjoying whatever they have.

I'll explain.

There was a time that a ship had to be canon if they kissed or got married onscreen. If not that, them being canon will be stated by the actual creator themselves.

Regardless, that wouldn't stop shippers of shipping who they wanted because, at least for some of us, shipping is fun. It should be.

Shipping stemmed from characters, regardless of gender, having intense moments, or acting a certain way around another character they wouldn't with others, and sometimes even their character designs and traits will tie into another character's.

Those kind of things is what some would say a ship is implied. It could be canon, it could not be.

Implied, I say, because at the end of the day the creator didn't confirm anything and even still said cues like that can be seen as romantic or platonic.

But this also those same cues don't have to mean anything. They could just be mere coincidences because hey, sometimes the creator doesn't keep track with everything when creating characters and writing stories. (I would know.)

"Implied" cues don't just stop for same gender ships. This goes for different gender ships, too.

I'll say it, I feel like nowadays, people confuse "implied" with "canon".

Oh, yes, MHA and JJK fandoms, I am saying those ships to me feel more implied because of the openness of them.

See, what's funny to me is I have seen people say a certain green haired MC with freckles blushing at any other time will mean nothing with other characters, but with a certain pink themed space girl and I'm not talking Ashido it means something romantic.

That is entirely unfair to me. So it's only romantic for just you and your ship, but not it can't for any other ship and someone else? Why do you get to dictate that?

Personally, I see blushing as just a physical reaction with multiple meanings. It's the meanings of that blushing that may get me to go "Oh, see how he/she/they are around this character". But at the end of the day, that doesn't mean for me my ship is canon because no matter it's status, if I like it and it's my preference, I'm shipping it.

"They held hands!"

So did green boy and boom boom boy and y'all didn't say they were anon! So did green boy and glasses class president! Does that mean they're canon? Trying to figure out why holding hands can mean your ship is canon, but not for other ships.

"They got married at the end and had kids!"

First off, grandkids. Not kids. We don't know how many kids that sword-wielding, don't get no sleep, wore skinny jeans and high tops guy had. We just know he had at least one kid to who then had children of their own.

Second, if that was canon, I'm sure the mangaka would have mentioned the grandmother. But we didn't even get a hint.

"But the grandson looks like---"

Ah! But who said it was through the grandmother though? Couldn't the kid's mom or father been a distant relative to that family? Or even there just happen to have been someone unrelated to that family, but happens to have similar physical features?

"Can't believe the mangaka would betray us like this."

But how? Did our pink haired MC expressed romantic feelings at all for her? No. Not even in the middle school flashback.

Honestly, it's gotten to the point that whenever someone says a ship is "canon" regardless if they hate it or not, it's annoying.

Over the past few months I have felt nothing but disappointment. Not surprised by anything, but felt disappointment.

"Implied" is a word that does exist. And "canon" shouldn't stop you from having fun with your ships.

And people, just because your ship is "canon" doesn't mean you have to act like a complete asshole to others. You just look like disgusting, frankly. And you don't look happy.

See someone who is happy about their ship wouldn't harass and laugh at people. They would just rejoice and post cute little edits and art and whatnot.

You harassing someone like "Ha ha, my ship is canon and yours is not" is you being childish and feeling insecure about your ship. You had that fear of your ship being canon when whether or not it was you should have just enjoyed it. You harassing someone is just you being more satisfied being right than the actual ship itself.

[ahyesthesufferingoftvteens]

You know I don’t think Kaidam shippers really explore the more unhealthy side of Adam and Kai’s relationship…which is disappointing to me because it sounds like something that would be really fun to explore?

This is a long post, so I’m gonna put the rest under the cut, for those who are interested in hearing me out:

Like in most depictions I see Kaidam as this very cute and fluffy and wholesome ship. Which I absolutely love, and I think Adam and Kai can be like that!

Then I look at the canon material and we have:

- Adam infantilizing Kai. “Very cool, Kai!” Has the same energy of your mom cooing at a shitty drawing of herself that you made for her when you were four.

- Kai pushing Adam away and barking back when Adam tries to control the situation and force Kai on the back-burner. OR when Kai very obviously states that he wants to be left alone and Adam doesn’t respect that request and tries to fix a problem that can’t be fixed in that moment.

- Adam and Kai both having trouble regulating their negative emotions and potentially getting explosive, which once resulted in Kai getting thrown across a forest. Wowza.

- Kai having a strong need for attention and validation that Adam does not notice as an obvious sign of trouble at home and something that Kai needs to talk about and get help with. Instead he interprets it as, “ugh, he’s being annoying again,” and reacts according to that perception.

- Kai outright hinting that Mira and Adam never really…hung out with him before he was invited to their team? And likely still didn’t while he was in their team? He was very likely brought to training sessions but that was it. They’ve never even been in his house before The Hollow Life. Adam very likely did not see Kai as a part of his circle before everything happened.

- Adam saying things that are insensitive to Kai and then not taking Kai’s resulting insecurities seriously and very obviously treating them as something he can quickly fix with a few words, which hints that Adam sees Kai as shallow.

Like, Adam and Kai’s friendship is fucked up. Toxic even, I would say. On one side we potentially have undiagnosed ASPD and OCD, and on the other side we potentially have undiagnosed HPD/BPD and AuDHD. This is a recipe for some DRAMA.

But the fact that no one has ever explored how this shitstorm of a relationship can evolve into something that’s actually healthy (as far as I can see) is sad because the POTENTIAL is INSANE.

Like, just imagine this…

—————

Kai confesses he likes Adam. Adam, who doesn’t take Kai’s feelings seriously, thinks Kai is shallow, and subconsciously views Kai as lesser probably thinks to himself “Awwww he’s a baby bi! You know what? I’ll date him for a little bit. It’s his first guy crush, he’ll be over it in a week. Besides, I’ll be giving him an example of what a good boyfriend should be like!” And meanwhile Kai, who is definitely very into Adam and desperately wants Adam to like him, is trying very very hard to impress and please and help Adam.

Then the PROBLEMS start coming in and Kai sticks it through anyways because he does genuinely like Adam, and he wants to be better for Adam, he just wishes Adam would actually try to be better for him.

So then this relationship lasts for longer than Adam anticipated, but by this point he’s too in deep, and he’s probably starting to actually like Kai back (but he likely doesn’t understand that yet because Adam strikes me as autoromantic with the occasional exception. Romantic feelings? What are those?), so he just kinda lets the relationship continue while not really knowing what to do about all of it.

That is, until Kai SNAPS. Accuses Adam of never actually liking him (which is partially true) and playing with his feelings (which he did) and then when Adam confirms these assumptions Kai breaks up with Adam and blocks his contacts.

And THAT is when Adam realizes he fucked up big time and that the way he views Kai is wrong, and also that he really likes Kai now. This is the funniest part of the story: Adam begging and bargaining with Kai for WEEKS before Kai even considers talking to Adam again. Kai’s first request is the most daunting: Go to therapy, Adam.

So Adam does that despite his protests, because god forbid he loose Kai again. He gets therapy, and works through some of his shitty behaviors. He’s much more self-aware than he was before now. Kai is working through his own issues as well.

More time passes, and Adam and Kai are finally hanging out again. This time Adam tries his damndest to hear Kai out, and Kai is no longer as explosive, but he’s very firm on his boundaries and doesn’t let Adam walk all over him. They start dating again later down the line (happiest day of Adam’s life) and now Adam has a story to tell his grandchildren about how he nearly fumbled the bag with his husband.

—————

This is a gold-mine to me. The sauce is impeccable. Every relationship can have issues: the goal is to work through them together as a team!

Let me see relationships that don’t work out at first but then with dedication the two meet in the middle and are finally deserving of each other!

Let me see relationships that aren’t perfect 100% of the time but are still absolutely great!

Let me see relationships that sucked and the two work their things out, but decide to remain friends because that just works better for them!

Let me see complicated relationships! They’re so fun to read!

…Also this scenario I wrote out is also great potential for Reekai (Sorry. It’s my OTP. I gotta rant about them). Like if you branch off after the break up and Kai starts hanging out with Reeve (who probably ALSO dated Adam once and would understand Kai’s strife.) you get the very funny concept of “Adam’s exes keep dating each other.”

In this scenario, after accepting that he lost Kai, Adam would probably be somewhat proud of the fact that he set Reeve and Kai up…until he remembers that he did so by being a trash boyfriend. Then he’s kinda down on himself until he quickly picks himself back up and strives for the future.

And I mean, who knows? Maybe in the future Reeve and Kai could consider letting Adam date the both of them once they’ve deemed he’s worthy.

There’s a lot of directions this can go guys. The Hollow kids and their relationships with each other are messy! Let’s talk about it!

[belphiegore]

Here are just my overall thoughts about the MHA epilogue and the fandom response.

We don’t know if the leaks are real, they probably are, but until it’s confirmed we keep it open. AI can be crazy these days.

I’m upset about my ship yes, but not in the way people would think. I’m fully aware, most BkDk shippers are fully aware, that the ship wasn’t going to be canon, it never was. Shipping is a way to have fun, to look at the story through a different lens. Queer interpretations of literature and anime is not a new development. The reason I’m a little upset is because I know the IzuOcha moment will make ‘those’ people feel comfortable to be toxic towards fans who enjoyed same sex ships in anime, especially BkDk enjoyers. To be quite frank, most of the people doing the bragging aren’t what I’d call “true shippers” just people who hate same sex ships and are happy to see even the smallest inkling of confirmation of a straight ship so that they can rub it in the faces of others. Because let’s be honest, the IzuOcha moment was nothing more than that, just a small intimate moment that can imply romance just like all the other moments between them in the anime and manga so far. It’s nothing big like a kiss, so it’s not like the two were even confirmed to be together at all. Fans of the ship still had plenty to go off on and imagine them together afterwards, and fans of other ships have enough experience to just keep on shipping. Canon doesn’t matter, it’s just about doing what you want. Overall, it’s not an issue. At this point in time I do think that Horikoshi would’ve been smarter to completely refrain from any romantic moments in the end, as the bigger a popular fandoms is, it’s more likely to (sadly) contain people who get way too into shipping discourse, and begin displaying toxic behaviors. Now everybody keep in mind, shipping isn’t the problem. Shipping is fine. It’s fine for fans to feel upset about their ships, it’s a normal part of fandom culture. The problem comes when toxic behavior begins to become prevalent: doxxing, threats, bullying, offensive/bigoted language, harassment, mass reporting, and such are not acceptable. Long comment threads arguing with someone online for an hour or longer is just straight up annoying, I’m sure we can all agree. However I’m sure the discourse will die down, and the toxic behavior will stop. We just have to wait and abstain from disrespectful behavior.

Now about Izuku’s rejection of Katsuki. First, I’ve seen people saying Bakugo wanted Izuku to be his sidekick, which isn’t likely. While Bakugo is rejecting interns and sidekicks, I see it as him waiting for Izuku and trying to leave room for him in his agency. He doesn’t want Izuku as a sidekick he wants to be a duo. He doesn’t want to fill his agency with sidekicks and just call it a day, he wants someone to stand side by side with him and constantly challenge him and support him to be better.

I think with this ending Horikoshi is conveying that while Izuku is going to be a hero again, and is still friends with Katsuki and will still support and compete with him, he doesn’t want Katsuki to be “tied down”? (I don’t know how to explain it) When Izuku turns down Bakugo’s offer, Izuku ISN’T saying “no, I don’t value you or what you did for me”. He’s saying, “I’m thankful for what you did, I love and care about you but I don’t want you to be dependent on me. I have to make my own choices separate from you and put myself first.” Which is a good message. A great one. However I think it’s should have been made a little…clearer? So far the scene has Bakugo seemingly be left behind (again) saying “when everyone is special to you… no one is really special”. As if he feels abandoned. This seems like it’s against how their relationship has been defined throughout the story. It’s not about the ship, it never was about the ship for me. It’s about the relationship and development between two characters that I became so invested in.

One of the biggest things I enjoyed about MHA is these two characters. I enjoyed Deku’s ‘favoritism’ towards Bakugo, it’s a flaw, but an interesting one, and one that isn’t detrimental to his character as it can also be seen as a beneficial trait. Everyone has a person who holds a special weight, someone that they prioritize over others. This can be a bad thing and a good thing. I think this aspect of Bakugo and Deku’s relationship with each other is what drew so many to be so invested in their characters. I’ve always described the two of them as being soulmates in every sense of the word. Intrinsically tied together, despite the odds and despite their feelings. One cannot be without the other. Some might agree this is detrimental in a relationship, and I would say in real life it could be, but for two characters who’s writing and developments evolve in tandem with each other, it just makes sense to me. For them to be forever tied together. It’s good that Deku potentially doesn’t want them to become “just rivals” however to me, it was presented in a way that makes it pretty easy for people, to see it as out of left field with Deku straight up ‘rejecting’ Bakugo, when for the whole series one of his greatest wishes is to be at Katsuki’s side. I think the conclusion, that “no one is really special” is something that just hurts as a BkDk lover, and to me, seemingly goes against the development of their relationship.

Thankfully it seems that Katsuki says “See you”, not letting himself be left behind. He’s hurt and sad about Izuku’s rejection, but he’s still going to be close with him, he’ll still be Izuku’s friend and biggest supporter, he’s just not chasing after him. I suppose it’s implying that instead of chasing after one another, they’ll stand side by side. Not together as one, but together as individuals. Again, I wish it was a little clearer, as it gives this sense of openness that doesn’t really fit this story as an ending. I thought Chapter 430 was probably the better note to end off on, as it gives you that bittersweet feeling but ends on a final overwhelmingly positive note. The dream is realized, friends support friends, everything is final and conclusive. Nothing open that can be twisted negatively. But that’s just my personal opinion.

All in all, I’m not sure how to feel. It hurts a bit, it feels bittersweet. Because you worry. You know the two of them are so close, practically bound together, but you worry that they’ll grow apart, that their relationship will never be what was imagined. I don’t truly know the meaning of the scene, these are just my thoughts. Until Horikoshi confirms the leaks, we won’t definitely know his intentions for the scene and the ending. All I know is that I feel a little sad in my worry that these fictional characters I’m so ridiculously hung up on won’t be together anymore. And that’s okay. It’s okay for people to be so invested. It’s part of what keeps a fandom alive. Everyone just needs to keep in mind to be nice to each other. We went through such a nice period of calm when we thought ch 430 was the last chapter, please let this die down and we can return to that calm. We can all analyze, theorize, make fanart, create fix-it’s and rewrites once this is all over.

[sevensoulmates]

Hi I just wanted to say I was on twitter and saw someone discussing and sharing your meta posts and I was genuinely intrigued and curious because you guys are obviously so devoted to the buddie couple and it's really endearing. And I was just really interesed about this perception of the couple you guys seem to have because is so different to the other side of the fandom I'm actively interacting with. I'm obviously a B/T shipper and only got into the fandom because of them but I'm really loving the show (currently I'm on season 5). I'm just curious about how is it that you guys see buddie as romantic when I think their interactions are clearly platonic, they obviously have a deep relationship, an intimate friendship but no more that that.

Again, I'm not trying to hate I just wanted to ask because it looks like the buddie shippers are settling themselves for disappointment just waiting for them to go canon. You all are obviously loyal fans and I think that's lovely but I honestly just don't see the show writing Eddie as queer now and I really think Tommy is here to stay (I think there's too many signs pointing to this fact like the buck actually episode and the old guy named Thomas). Again I'm not here trying to hate because I think you guys love the ship genuinely but I just wonder how is it that after all the things the shows portrays you guys are still rooting for buddie. Please feel free to ignore my question if I'm annoying you, I really don't want to come off as rude I was just really interesed in the topic.

There are a boatload of reasons why I and many other people ship Buddie. Most of them are far too long to get to in one ask like this because Buddie have had 6 years worth of material to sort through and it would just take far too long.

Long story short: in the same way that Buck was confirmed bisexual over the course of a single episode after years of many people saying Buck could never be anything other than straight, Buddie could be made canon in one single episode and it would be accepted just as easily even though it's been years and a lot of people are still saying they could never be together.

It's TV. The writers can do whatever they want. The second they decide to start bringing in more explicitly romantic things, people will suddenly start "getting" it.

To be more precise: I think it's easy for people to see a ship like Bucktommy and latch onto it because it's very clearly, explicitly queer. It's a lot harder for people to believe in or "see" ships where a queer couple hasn't done anything explicitly romantic like kiss or hold hands, etc. It's unfortunately due to heternomativity and the sad death of the slow burn. I can't really do anything about either of those things.

For me, the primary reason I ship buddie is because of the deep special bond and obvious family they've built over the years that feels different from every single other relationship they've had with literally anyone else on the show. That includes Tommy, Shannon, Abby, etc. You can view it as platonic if you want, that's anyone's subjective opinion.

You seem like a sweet person, but you're also coming into the show with a bias towards Bucktommy, which is fine. They're what brought you to the show, they're the ones who initially intrigued you, and they're also the only ones currently explicitly queer. I get it.

I am going to be so honest with you: I think the show has been writing both Buck and Eddie as queer men for many many years. But just like how Buck was only allowed to confirm it this most recent season, they haven't been able to confirm it for Eddie just yet. I could write essays and essays about how Eddie is so obviously deep deep in compulsory heterosexuality and has been almost since the beginning, but it would take too long. There's plenty of posts I and others have made all over tumblr and on my blog.

Slow queer burns featuring characters that aren't introduced in the first 5 seconds as queer are almost non-existent, they very rarely happen in popular media, and because of that it's almost impossible to ship something without someone coming at you saying "they don't see it". Fact of the matter is that Buddie is one of the easiest ships to "see", if you were looking at a man and a woman, but they're not. I can't really convince people to see what they don't want to see.

If you're curious about the specifics, I'd encourage you to go through my blog/meta or other buddie-positive blogs on tumblr to find many talented and intelligent individuals who will have a lot to say on why they believe in buddie.

When it comes down to it, I don't think the fandom at large is ever gonna believe it until they see it. That's kinda just human nature and the state of how we all consume media right now.

But once the show does go there, they're gonna be like damn can't believe I didn't see that until now while the rest of us sit here like "we've been trying to tell you this whole time."

In the meantime, I'm enjoying Bucktommy for what it is, for however long it lasts, and I'm gonna enjoy buddie just the same, regardless of if they go canon or not, or how long it takes.

[neutron-stars-collision]

The thing is, something like a 100 million people have watched the show between official streams and piracy, right? And out of all those people, something like 2,000 ended up shippers across the various platforms, and that's maybe a generous estimate. They're a loud but extremely small minority. It's maybe 100-200 here. All of us saw the same WT and didn't see these supposed soulmates, we saw costars who get along really well, that's it, and that's lovely in its own right. The shipping is clearly fulfilling a need for specific individuals who have had certain experiences, it's not a universal thing by any means. I don't know why these people continue to come into our inboxes assuming we're in the same boat as them or trying to convince us of something we don't see (*whispers* because it isn't there).

No idea. Seriously. And they are so very loud at that. It’s like you can’t go into Luke’s tag (probably Nic’s too) or even Polin without encountering some weird shit.

And what annoys me so much is that the tone is often like: We all saw- No, we didn’t. We didn’t all see the same thing. Because as you mentioned what I saw was two coworkers who clearly like each other (platonically), are possibly close friends and are having fun throughout this strange experience. That’s it. We didn’t see soulmates, lovers or whatever tf you all imply sometimes.

So it would all be more bearable if the shippers didn’t get up in our faces like that on the daily. And if those that had been disappointed with the fact that Nic and Luke aren’t who they expected them to be (prefect and in love), would just shut up and leave those two alone. Instead of spewing hate, coming up with stupid theories and denying what is rather obvious.

[balrogballs]

I’m curious… how do the publishing sector(?) / your agents take to the concept of fanfiction? Do they consider it novels too? Is there a prejudice (or are your agents avid lindir smut readers too)?

Ooh I’ve answered this before but AGES ago and I think I deleted it because I shared too many specifics, so will answer in full haha.

From what I know from peers in genre fiction — especially romance/fantasy/YA/crime, it’s not exactly frowned upon in a rigid sense, many fanfic authors are open about being published authors and vice versa. Usually, most agents and publishers will have you ‘file off the serial numbers’ so completely remove your fic if any of it has influenced your writing. I don’t write in any of those areas however, so I could be wrong and someone else may be better placed to tell you more on that.

Litfic can be up its own ass — in certain niches an online presence is a good thing to curate, fanfic or no, but from what I see around me and in my circles, it can be somewhat looked down on and I’ve had several discussions with peers on it. Eg. literally last week one of my former professors went on a whole ass rant about how fanfic is ruining the literary landscape and I had to remind myself that biting people is illegal. It was quite funny because the guy raved about my book which is written in a very similar style to my fanfics so… 🤪

Litfic in general tends to be a bit snobby regarding fanfiction, but with the advent of the ‘MFA starkids’ as of late, this has been changing as a few of these types have begun curating a different, ‘younger’ brand — personally I dislike said brand but annoying progress is better than none I guess.

With me unfortunately, the average writer in my specific ‘area’ of litfic is around 45 years old, and it’s an issue-driven area so a lot of the writers and readers are academics/‘public intellectuals’ (ugh).

I have a doctorate and went to all the ‘right’ unis, but I was also in my mid-twenties when I debuted. So I have to very much try twice as hard to ‘live up’ to that sort of thing, and I find it a bit miserable so let the publishers handle any socials etc. Which is also why I really enjoy being on here.

Writer as a brand is a thing in many genres, especially if you write with a ‘big 5’ publisher — unfortunately, mid-twenties fanfic author is not a brand I am encouraged to curate. I REALLY lucked out with my agent and editor as both work with Booker-listers, but the flip side is that they can be a bit dismissive of writing they deem as ‘not serious’.

I do understand, because of the image ‘world literature’ has + my age + not-yet-established status + that fic was literally lindir getting drilled like a borehole… can feel a bit stifling, but work is work!

And yeah once you get to a certain level it stops being relevant, like I feel like if Salman Rushdie came out as a Gigolas shipper or idk Jungkook groupie, nobody would bat an eye. However — as you might be able to tell from how I have both the free time and the shamelessness to curate “Balrogballs” and write about breakfast blowjobs — am no Salman Rushdie.

(I’ve joked before that if I win any of the top 5 prizes I would reveal myself as Balls in my acceptance speech so get praying).

Re difficulty — I don’t have too hard of a time because I use my legal given name and surname in fannish spaces, hence me having always been chill about using my name here, and exclusively use my middle names in public/writing spaces, and there’s absolutely no connection between them online — we had a full check done on this by the publishers.

So people won’t know Zara is [middle names] unless they know me personally, and I don’t really care if people I know IRL know this is my blog because I act exactly like this IRL, just not professionally. A couple of people in fannish spaces did make the connection but the fault was mostly mine as I had been quite careless re: posting face at that point.

TLDR: no it’s not encouraged in my situation, but every genre and author and publisher is different — some genre-fiction agents clearly DO like a Cassandra Clare situation and an online fan community presence can help. I’m thinking about how I’ve seen quite a few fantasy writers openly say they’re Reylo shippers/wrote Reylo fanfic.

Apologies for essay, I’m bored on a train, but hope this answers the questions 😇

[deus-sema]

My dear Haladriels/Saurondriels,

I understand that we all here are very passionate about this ship of ours. But, as responsible and law abiding citizens of whichever country each of us belongs to, it is also our duty to weed out the bad apples in our midst who besmirch the good name of our community within the fandom.

Unlike the rest of us sensible and well meaning souls who know how to ship in a proper and decent manner, these notorious shippers have crossed all limits when it comes to delusion and their audacity knows no bounds. In the name of all that is good and just, they need to be called out.

Here are those individuals. If you come across them anywhere do NOT engage. They are beyond saving. Just block/report and move on. If it were upto me, I would have them jailed and locked away from civilized society but alas.

(1) Lost Cause #1

This guy is unbelievable for he comes up with the most outlandish headcanons about Sauron and Galadriel. He romanticizes the hell out of them and spends the entire day writing fluffy AUs where they end up happily ever after and have five kids or angsty ones where they pine for each other. Tch tch. I bet he doesn't know or understand anything about the books or the characters and is simply projecting onto Galadriel and trying to live his fantasy of fixing Sauron through her. It's okay if he wants to do that but then he starts acting like it's canon and it gets annoying. Someone please tell him Galadriel and Sauron aren't star crossed lovers.

(2) Lost Cause #2

Then there this dude who is legit dangerous. The first one was just an ignorant soul who romanticizes them whereas this one sexualizes the ship. Can you believe it?! He sexualizes the Lady Of Light and the Dark Lord. His fics are all porn and no plot. His fanart is blasphemous NSFW. He also prefers the ship when it involves dead dove, non con, stalking and obsession, all of which are supposed to be unhealthy, dangerous and illegal. I'm worried about his well being. If you ask me, like the other guy, he is projecting onto Galadriel too but instead of fixing the sexy bad boy, he wants to make Sauron worse. He,too, understands nothing about the books.

(3) Lost Cause #3

Last, but not the least, there is this guy who is.............hopeless. The other two shippers can still be rehabilitated with some time and effort but stay the fuck away from this one. He doesn't believe Sauron and Galadriel don't end up together. Those two live in AUs but for him, his AU is canon. He fully expects Sauron and Galadriel to ride off to the sunset together and won't let anyone stand in his way. Be it Amazon or the Tolkien Estate. As we waste time on social media, he is devising a means to travel back in time, hold Tolkien at gunpoint and force him to make Saurondriel endgame in the books.

Now, remember everyone. We are NOT like these shippers. We are good shipperses. Nice shipperses who stay in our lane. Sweet shipperses.

[maks-punchout-hyperfixtion]

So about burnt bread discourse

I had a dream i had to make this post once. Aint that ironic.

As a multi shipper i won't lie and say the aran x joe age isn't something. But to me it's just a big age gap between two adults. It's not like aran just got out of highschool or joe knew aran as a kid. If either was the case this ship wouldn't even fall under my radar.

I frankly can't give two shits who you ship in any fandom as long as their legal ages and not relatives. I don't even do ship stuff alot, hell the fucking au based around Punch out ships is more like "what if they had kids and those kids just so happened to also go into boxing" for literally any ship it doesn't even follow the minimum lore i have!

But i want to say some stuff about the original post that started it. Which will be in a under cut because of rants and frankly outright rudeness im presenting. To which i apologize

It feels non genuine. Its just feels like something to just start something up. And my reasoning are simple they assumed excuses, was basically just rude in their second to final sentence, and just randomly slapped proship over it without an explanation

They assume that someone will call them homophobic, and that they don't like the trope aran x joe is. Which by the way can we actually talk about that?

Wimpy x strong?? Im sorry but in my opinion and any fan art i have seen doesn't depict joe as a wimp. At all. Joe is a boxer and dispite being one of the worst he is still giving it his all. Even in canon he isn't, the only "wimpy" dialogue he has is the one about his gloves being too tight and his stomach being mush. And even that was just him complaining about something that actually does get annoying. His "dont punch my jaw" lines are likely because his jaw is probably going to break after to many bouts so he's trying to tell his opponent to not punch there (which obviously fails), and that nap one was probably just to taunt mac! You realize how detirmed and strong you got to be to keep going into the ring after 100 losss? In a total of 201 between the nes and wii game? If that's your definition of wimpy i hate to see what you call people who actually are wimps.

That rant aside lets talk about you second to last sentence "But yea, welcome to the Punch out fandom, were SOME people doesn't care about ages."

That was just fucking rude you know that? I refuse to believe that wasn't meant to intentionally be rude. No matter how big the fandom no matter how close you are to the people you never go and say that type of stuff unless you can provide proof that a good portion you're referring too is actually doing that. Especially after you got your point across.

And look i get proship can mean different things. But you could of atleast give a reasoning as to why this ship is a proship outside the age gap? It doesn't help that you actually only put it in the tags that caused the whole thing.

Frankly actually i don't hate your take, im just hoping you're reading this and seeing there were better ways to bring the point across and to give some better reasons as to why you dislike the ship outside the age gap and why you think its a proship.

So tldr: just reword the actual post better take out the "But yea, welcome to the Punch out fandom, were SOME people doesn't care about ages" part and explain why you think this ship is a proship

[mvmnbnv]

I like your takes. I love Caitvi, but it annoys me to no end how much they project and treat Vi’s relationship with her sister as irrelevant. They honestly kinda ruined the fanbase for me. I’m tired of the constant mischaracterziation of Vi’s character. Like she’s always so off in fanfics and they try to make it seem like she doesn’t care about Jinx at all. it’s weird to see other fans of her character try to erase that part of her in fanfics because they think Jinx is coming in the way like she’s literally her family??? You want Vi to just magically forget her after not seeing her in years? That’s not realistic at all.

The sister’s relationship is the most inaccurately portrayed because of Caitvi fans and it bothers me. Like I remember reading a fic where Vi shoots Jinx dead and she didn’t even care or grieve her because she has Caitlyn. She’s basically like, “ Welp, idc that I killed my sister. She doesn’t matter because I’ve got Caitlyn now byee” ??? Like wtff. That stuff just annoys me lol

Also, I’m gonna be honest but as a fan of Vi, most people in her fanbase only talk about her relationship with Caitlyn. You don’t have to care about the sisters relationship, but I dislike other fans of Vi that disregard that part of her and watch show from the perspective of a Caitvi shipper. Like it’s nice to see those who do acknowledge because there’s very little people who do care. It just bothers me how most of her fans only see one part of her story.

Another thing is the constant gender stereotypes. Like just because Caitlyn is sheltered doesn’t mean that’s reflective on her romantic life. I see portrayals of Vi where they make her equivalent to a misogynistic fuckboi. I’ve seen fics where they make violent and have her punch Caitlyn her in the face. Also, the classism and the very gross takes on Piltover and enforcers that come from them make me uncomfortable. You give grace to the oppressors because you take criticism of Piltover as an attack on their relationship which is just so ridiculous. Like you can still love them as a couple and not be weird about Piltover.

Way too many don’t give the same energy towards Zaun. They look down on them exactly how Piltover does and act like Vi isn’t literally from there. I agree with your other post too because they always downplay Cassandra too. I get surprised if I see someone among Caitvi stans acknowledge what she’s done. It’s a weird contrast to how they view characters from Zaun. Also, I remember coming across a fic where the author wrote Caitlyn degrading her because shes’s from Zaun as a “kink” like come on…

Yeah,peoples inability to see vi as her own character outside of caitlyn can get pretty irritating. And the classism and mischaracterization of vi?? Woof...and the complete disregard of jinx and vis relationship as if they aren't the heart of thr story is wild too lol. Like it's always been about them. Let's be real