#i respect it but uma thurman was right there?

[ponykidcurtis]

ok actually gattaca was a little gay but it really wasn't as gay as y'all are saying in that tag over there

[pippin-katz]

I realized that I really don't care about any comments made on the boys' (especially Taylor’s) acting; I am not going to let them get to me at all anymore. You know why?

It occurred to me that the character that Alex has the most screen time with, excluding Henry for obvious reasons, is his mother. And you know who plays Alex's mother right? Uma fucking Thurman.

If Uma had a problem with Taylor's acting, I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have agreed to the film, or been much harsher with criticism to make him improve. Taylor has only ever said how amazing she was to work with and let me list the things he has said about working her for this:

that she was lovely and giving

that she also wanted to forge a personal connection with him

that despite having a very short amount of time to build their relationship for the screen they developed that connection through hugs, touches, little conversations

that they went to lunch together

that she was a professional who made him feel safe

that she didn't treat him like "that younger actor"

that she would improv at him and they tried different things throughout the filming

that she's a very skilled and competent actor

Here's the link to the video interview I pulled this from. Taylor talks about Uma from 3:06 to 4:28 if you don't feel like searching for it, or watching the whole thing. I'm sure he's also talked about her in written interviews, but I'm not going hunting for it because this post is already longer than I meant for it to be, and I'm writing it on an Wacom art tablet at my school's lab while taking what was supposed to only be a few minute-long break from my digital sculptures that I've been struggling and behind on for over a week. 🥲

Everything about the way Taylor talks about her and working with her gives me the impression that she would not hold back criticism. She's been in the industry for a long time, and knows the ins and outs of it. She sounds like a person who would not be afraid to say something if they saw an area that needed improvement, and that she would be respectful and nice about it while doing so.

It occurred to me that if Uma fucking Thurman did not see him as a bad actor, then the opinions of random strangers, most of whom have never set foot on a stage/set, don't matter at all.

[thegreymoon]

I am really not the target demographic for Red, White and Royal Blue and honestly, the entire premise sounds dumb af from where I'm sitting, but all the gifs that crossed my dash looked hilarious and that main actor is beyond gorgeous, so I am going to give it a shot tonight. My expectations are so low, that unless this movie gets a shovel and starts digging, there is no chance it cannot exceed them. I am so ready to eat my words, just give me some pretty people, mindless fluff and basic comedy and I will be happy, I swear!

***

TWO FUCKING HOURS?

You guys, I'm going to be honest here, I don't think I have it in me to sit through this 😭😭

***

LOL, only a younger brother 🤣🤣 They did not have the guts to go all in and make him the heir to the throne.

Also, lol @ "Prince of England's hearts" but even more so at "whom all the world adores" 🤣🤣 I cannot. I am absolutely not the target demographic for this and I don't think I have it in me to just go along with this, fictional British royal family or not. Who speaks like this? Who even believes it?

Anyway. Abolish the monarchy, Guillotine them all. Long live the glorious revolution!

***

LMFAO 🤣🤣

Well, at least he looks equally disgusted.

If we can't off the royal family, how about we just off this news announcer? Because I am getting so much second-hand embarrassment.

***

LMAO, OK, he gets ONE point 🤣🤣

OK, fine, two points, because he is stupid beautiful and the reason I sat down to watch this in the first place 😤

***

Yassss, girlfriend has great taste!

I'm two minutes in and so far, she's my favourite. I would totally watch a two-hour movie of her touring London and giving commentary on the yumminess of various guys she encounters.

***

LMAO, is he going to get hammered and smash the obscene 75-thousand-pound cake? 🤣🤣

Because why else would they mention that price point and also show the cake in all its humongous 8-tier glory 🤣🤣

Here for the diplomatic incident, ngl, I would totally read the shit out of that in the tabloids the next day 🤣🤣

***

NOOOOO, THE CAKE IS RIGHT BEHIND THEM!

THEY WILL TOTALLY TOPPLE THAT CAKE!

***

Okay, I am laughing 🤣🤣

***

SCREAMING 🤣🤣

I saw it coming from a mile away, but goddamn, it DELIVERED! 🤣🤣

***

I can't stop laughing 🤣🤣

Watching this was such a good decision 🤣🤣

***

LOL, if this was a real-life event, I would spend a week gleefully reblogging it on Tumblr, no lie 🤣🤣

Also, it is a 9-TIER CAKE, not 8 🤣🤣 The more, the messier!

***

LMFAO 🤣🤣

Also, OMG! Uma Thurman! 😍 It's been a hundred years since I watched her in anything!

***

"Sunshine of my heart" 🤣🤣

This movie is hilarious 🤣🤣

***

Wait, Sarah Shahi??

I loved her in Life! I also watched Fairly Legal for her and thought she was stunning in The L Word! I'm forever bitter we never got to see that Nancy Drew adaptation with her in the main role 😕

***

The thing that is the most difficult for me to suspend my disbelief for is the idea that these two overly privileged young men involved in their countries' respective politics are actually nice people.

I keep chanting to myself, "You are not here for realism! You are not here for realism! YOU ARE NOT HERE FOR REALISM!"

To varying levels of success 😕

***

Romantic comedies are so not my genre. And I am so not here for ex-boyfriends or whatever this guy is.

I need Alex and Henry to get back together ASAP and start smashing cakes again because I'm starting to get bored.

***

These are gutter-level jokes.

Seriously, they couldn't get more creative?

***

They have the most basic taste in literature ever. It doesn't even feel authentic, more like what a nineteen-year-old girl thinks good taste in literature should look like.

***

I feel like I am extremely uncharitable towards this movie (the cake thing was funny tho) but it is very hard to take their bland flirting, pedestrian romance and pathetic humour seriously when you're coming into this from 2ha 😕 The standards that have been set are on another planet compared to what we are being given here.

***

Please 😭

And smash another cake, otherwise I don't know how I'm going to make it through another hour-and-a-half of this 😭😭

***

The things I will watch for pretty people 😭

He truly is stupid beautiful and makes this thing infinitely more watchable every time he's on screen.

***

I'm with Henry on this one, this party is like something straight out of my worst nightmares and crushing on the tall, hot guy seems like the only tolerable thing in this whole hellscape.

***

Aww, baby, he is not having a good time.

He wants to kiss him for New Year's too!

***

LOL.

Well. That escalated 🤣🤣

***

NOOOOO, WHAT ARE YOU DOING JUST STARING AFTER HIM?

RUN AFTER HIM AND TELL HIM IT'S OK AND THAT YOU SHOULD CONTINUE SOMEWHERE BEHIND CLOSED DOORS!!

***

And some women! 👀

She's my favourite character in this thing, lol, followed closely by Sarah Shahi and Uma Thurman. And then Prince Henry 😅

***

This guy stands no chance to the level that it's embarrassing he still keeps trying.

I almost feel sorry for him, but I kinda have the feeling that he's going to be the one to out Alex and Henry, so my sympathy is very shallow. Just know when you've lost, my man, and MOVE ON.

[pers-books]

Red, White & Royal Blue is an upcoming romantic comedy based on the book of the same name. Early reactions to the trailer were filled with praise, with people claiming that they’re eager to see how this novel gets adapted onto the screen.

The book was added to the New York Times Bestsellers list in 2019 and was praised for its depiction of LGBT+ relationships. Since the book’s release, it has won numerous awards, such as the 11th Annual Goodreads Choice Awards for “Best Debut Novel” and “Best Romance.”

So if you’re keen to see this highly-acclaimed romantic comedy hit the big screen, here’s what you need to know about Red, White & Royal Blue’s release.

Where and when can I watch Red, White & Royal Blue?

Unfortunately, Red, White & Royal Blue won’t be showing in theaters. Instead, it will be available to stream on Amazon Prime Video, since Amazon Studios managed to obtain the film rights for the novel (via Deadline). Sadly, this means that this rom-com is an Amazon exclusive, so don’t expect to see this movie on other platforms. That said, Red, White & Royal Blue will be released on Aug. 11, 2023.

Who is in the cast for Red, White & Royal Blue?

Red, White & Royal Blue will star a fresh-faced ensemble with a mix of some British legends that you might be familiar with. Nicholas Galitzine and Taylor Zakhar Perez will be playing Prince Henry and Alex Claremont-Diaz, respectively. You might know Perez from the Netflix film, The Kissing Booth, as Marco Peña. He also played Keith in the original iCarly series. Meanwhile, Galitzine played Prince Robert in the Amazon adaptation of Cinderella.

Doctor Who star, Jemma Redgrave, will serve as the film’s narrator. Kill Bill legend, Uma Thurman, will be playing Ellen Claremont, who’s Alex’s mother and the president of the United States. Lastly, British comedian Stephen Fry will also be featured in this rom-com as King James III.

------

Huh.

[joannaromanoff]

My point of view on Red White and Royal Blue (movie, 2023) ❤️🤍💙

Red White and Royal Blue (movie) was out on Friday (11th August) and finally my our long and torturing wait was over. I read the book earlier this year and I couldn’t wait for the visual take of it.

The main reason why I love the book so much is because it never went down the road of stereotypes about same-sex relationships or LGBTQ community itself and badly-written clichés of the romantic art world (I’m somewhere in the aromantic spectrum, keep that in mind). I didn’t fear that the book would fail to keep those very important elements of the book intact even though I was sure that some parts wouldn’t make it because a 400+ page book can’t be squeezed in 2 hours.

I’m very glad that I was (mostly) right.

To be fair, I missed June, Leo and Rafael in the movie because I find their characters either pretty important to how the story was shaped or pretty fun (or both). But I get that they had to be cut so the movie wouldn’t last for 5 hours (which I wouldn’t personally mind either). What I really missed was Alex realizing he’s bisexual (and not already knowing so) and all that mental journey he has on that specific part of the book where he understands in such an in-depth way who he truly is. As a bisexual person myself, I find that part of the book so relatable and so inspiring. I had never realized it before. up until I wrote that chapter; I did miss representation so badly.

However I found the movie to be breathtakingly beautiful. Everything was as I imagined it to be. 

Taylor Zakhar Perez and Nicholas Galitzine were the perfect choices for Alex and Henry respectively. It was uncanny how invested they got me. The way they played their roles with so much respect to the true core of their characters and with so much respect to what Alex and Henry and their love story represent for us, the fans. So spectacular. The wittiness, the passion, the fun and the love Alex and Henry share were all there, we could touch it. It was heart-warming really. Uma Thurman was the PERFECT casting for Ellen, too. I love her (who doesn’t?).

I love how the movie was completely respectful to what the book stands for. A same-sex romance (true romance with problems and love and passion and all those things that make a true-life romance, as well) with two characters who have actual depth and they’re not tacky LGBTQ caricatures; they get to grow right before our eyes and right beside each other. It’s immensely appreciated that sexuality was discussed under a light of honesty with sprinkles of humor on top but not any intention of mockery. And what a refreshing moment was it when Ellen wanted to discuss with Alex about his sexuality and about safe sex. A mainstream movie, a platform movie and an Uma Thurman role talking protection and same-sex intercourse in a normal and casual manner because it is a normal and valid thing, you know… ❤️🤍💙

The 16+ scenes were all just what I wished for; two people who want to touch each other, who want to kiss, caress, hold, explore each other's body because their feelings dictate them to. As an aromantic person, I don’t usually connect sexual intercourse with love and feelings. But in a rom-com, you kinda look for a connection (or you just open p*rnhub) and it was definitely there.

The movie was fun. The movie was deep. The movie was romantic. The movie was hot. The movie was a romance with sharp points and even sharper intention to be the first one to have a same-sex couple in the center and not put any shame or doubt about how they felt for one another or for their sexuality. I truly loved that specific aspect.

This movie set the bar way too high for other LGBTQ rom-coms.

 

I’ve gone through a lot with accepting myself and it’s not always easy. It was amazingly stimulating to see Alex and Henry with flesh and bones right in front of me to be unapologetically themselves and embrace who they are and who they love.

 

Now I’m going to watch it for the fifth time 🫣

 

"You know the b in lgbt isn't a silent letter" - Ellen Clermont

Love is love,

Joanna 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️❤️🤍💙

 

[adriancatrin]

ok not that you were really asking in the tags of ur rb of the zuko lightning vid but in CASE you are wondering….

it’s technically 2 songs. on lady gaga’s newest album chromatica she has 3 instrumental interludes to break up the 3 main sections of the album, called chromatica i, ii, and iii respectively. what’s special about chromatica ii is that it seamlessly transitions into the next song called 911 (which is also one of the most beloved songs on the album bc it’s just such good pop) in this very anticipatory, crescendo way that had fans IN A CHOKEHOLD when it came out. like listening to chromatica ii into 911 for the first time was an experience and of course it took to the (gay part of the) internet like moth to a flame.

people started making memes where it’s a clip of an iconic moment from a show or movie, or maybe a famous fight from a real housewives franchise, or a famous line of dialogue from something, and set it to chromatica ii into 911 so the famous transition moment where 911 starts hits right at the biggest moment of the scene. one i remember is in the batman movie where uma thurman plays poison ivy, there’s a scene where she dramatically arrives (at the top of stairs i think?) so someone made a clip where it’s the scene of batman and robin talking and chromatica ii is playing, and it’s timed so the 911 transition happens at the exact moment poison ivy appears. yknow because uma thurman as poison ivy is gay iconography. i think if you were to search “chromatica ii into 911 poison ivy” it would come up and then probably suggest other videos like it. i mostly saw them on twitter. it was a great moment in time.

it works with basically any dramatic moment you can think of. so for years i’ve been saying “we need chromatica ii into 911 but it’s zuko shooting lightning back at ozai” because even if you’re not of the mind that zuko is gay it’s a HUGE MOMENT that calls for the dramatics of chromatica ii into 911. i don’t have any video skills whatsoever so finally a friend who gets why it would slap so much kindly made it for me. and during pride month too!!

i know you didn’t really ask but i loooove talking about this and explaining it bc chromatica is so good and the chromatica ii into 911 moment really defines that album for me. it was so incredible live too. anyway i hope you have enjoyed this unsolicited lesson!

i only just saw this ask pffsdjlfj but thank you for explaining!! i completely missed that trend apparently lol, lame. here's the vid in question if anyone wants to see

[the-firebird69]

Top 10 Songs Of 1978

Yeah I used to piss him off on purpose cuz he was pissing me off and a little war it's okay though. These signs are awesome I can't think of one song that I wouldn't listen to. He says there might be one but not that many it's true oh wow what a blast from the past and he says they're famous songs because of the happening in the future and people get a copy of them singing it and say excuse me singing it now I don't really recall it but and they write it up and they play it I'll tell you what it happened a lot and Blondie it happens to almost everything she does but it's hard doing it it's a different version you see here and her songs are massively intense and when in New York they do the Mars eating cars and it's intense it's in the future from now and they're talking about people recycling cars and how it's probably the Empire and it's now coming out. A lot of it is that they're seeing you about it goes back it doesn't make any sense and the Empire is throwing it back and they're a little nuts and it's really strange stuff even to us and we are the ones having some of it done but we love these songs they're intense and they we grew up with them and we know them and we can feel power in them and it's expressed it is power and people are amazed when they hear it and they hear what it means and without going into it it has very very deep meaning to us and we are very pleased to hear it and I'm happy my husband had a rotisserie chicken and ate the whole thing while watching Star wars and he is still hungry and it shows he should be eating more but boy what a dream some of these songs are just a dream and it's fun for us because we hear it and we see it and it's real and very real to us there were issuing the orders and we know that those are our orders being followed in a lot of them and we can see it and hear it happening and they have an angle for each and every one of them but my my it's an exciting time and exciting music and the people are here but sing the songs and to them they're just seeing it again and then find out it's a loop and they want to know who and they find you smiling Mac proper and made consider them to be idiots a lot of people do but my husband clarified it and some of them remember they go back in time when they want these people are sending it back and trying to do the job and they end up respecting them but wow what a day today is too this is massive there's a war between the morlock and the warlock it's the pseudo Empire but they are going to disappear and they are the bullies and a higher level bully and they are eliminating themselves and reducing the Mac proper smoke screen and they're stepping out of the way and people our manufacturing things and the Empire has no choice they are simply ridiculous with them and it is going on now it is an intense time for us and for me this bulley Trump is going to be put down and in many ways he is going to lose his life over and over and he is going to lose things to my husband and my self we are going to gain somebody and some beans and it's practically nothing but to us we get to move around and eat well sleep better and it is a little bit of quality of life when it is very very hard to get by out here and boy are they ridiculous. I'm hoping that we give enough feet down that he doesn't have to go to a homeless shelter for Christ's sake what a piece of s*** this guy is a living piece of s***

Right now I'm informed that there are five groups of Mac proper at the Spencer property and that's the actual name no but it's close and they're out there Snoopy around and they've got several different methods that they're going to try and use and one of them was Penny who's Uma Thurman in this case and it was not me playing Penny Lawler either it's close to my character and that's what she was doing. It was Uma thurman. She failed that there are groups of Mac proper they're doing it and they're not small groups

Hera

I heard him earlier say penis and you meant me and now I see why and there's groups they sort of fight each other but they don't and this is a big problem

Joel w

Haha no it's not funny it's our nest egg that was taken from us and we died a violent death and we're back and we can't let someone else have it after this happened to us we simply have to stop him and I'm asking my husband to stop messing around with this kid leave alone you're doing half the job and you want to do none of it and this place you wanted to go is something that we don't control and I'm sick of saying it and I'm tired of hearing about it from other people saying we're wrong and I need him to quit doing what he's doing and right now and I'm very sick of it the kid doesn't care for Taylor Swift for my other characters and I'm starting to get why where these morons yelling at him threatening him and threatening pennies and it never seems to stop and other people are helping him like Uma Thurman and Terry cheesman is trying to get him funding and we're not letting it go through because it's supposedly not us but it's our group and we're complete assholes I admit it it's wrong and keep doing it and a major reason is because of trump he is right up in his face and he's spoiled and I'm going to have to try and stop him myself and they're saying I'm doing it too and yeah I was doing it but I have this place and it's in my mouth the taste of actually living well and really having things like cities and this fool is giving it up just to bother him just like his friend Dave wants you can see it the stupid f***** doesn't get it everybody else does in the dumb a****** can't f****** fathom Dave doing it when he was picking on him and messing around with him just like he's doing to his brother and this guy is beating the s*** out of him with anything that he can grab everybody that comes near me I'm sick of it who the hell wants to live in a homeless shelter in this piece of f****** s*** or even go back to the goddamn neighborhood or nothing happens but we got our asses kicked and it's going to happen to be in and we're getting our asses kicked because we won the stupid election really it's going south and I can't stand it anymore I need Trump to stop doing what he's doing

Sarah

We're going to make that happen she's right she can't stop him and she's stopping herself a little here and there and the turd is not doing any work and he thinks threatening our son will get himself so we are going to attack

Thor Freya

We're attacking right now but we do hear they're helping and we see other people doing it and we're going to have to take him down and get rid of the stock he has somehow

Mac daddy

There's a procedure on removing stock from someone's possession and it has to do with the stock exchange and it is a hostile takeover and there's ways to force it out of them and we're going to do it and other people are vowing to do it right now

Olympus

[thenerdparty]

Megalopolis - Film Review

Written by Shawn Eastridge

Hoo, boy. This one’s a doozy. 

Your appreciation of Francis Ford Coppola’s self-funded passion project, Megalopolis, will largely depend on how familiar you are with the film’s troubled history. One can’t help but be impressed by Coppola’s sheer gall and tireless devotion in getting this film to the big screen. Since the early eighties, he’d struggled to secure funding for his ambitious production. Despite having made three of cinema’s great masterpieces (The Godfather, The Godfather Part II, and Apocalypse Now), its massive scale demanded a sizable budget that no studio in their right mind dared commit to. Coppola pushed forward, undeterred by these setbacks, even going so far as to hold a table read for his script in the early 2000s, featuring the likes of Nicolas Cage, Leonardo DiCaprio, Robert De Niro and Uma Thurman. 

Nothing came of it.

Then in 2021, Coppola sold his Sonoma County wineries, finally securing the $120 million he needed to produce Megalopolis and ensuring his vision would shine through without any studio meddling. And here we are, three years on from that sale and forty years on from Coppola’s earliest envisionings, with the final result. 

Does anything about the above story inspire or excite you? Then Megalopolis may be worth checking out. But I’m not sure its appeal will extend beyond the realm of devoted cinephiles who understand the pain and turmoil that went hand-in-hand with its production. For the average, adventurous moviegoer, your overall enjoyment will more likely depend on your willingness to roll with the punches this ambitious mess throws your way. And believe me when I say, there are a lot of punches you’ll need to roll with if you want to get anything out of this. 

I, for one, was happily along for the ride. Despite Megalopolis’ myriad issues–which include but are not limited to its nonsensical, overstuffed storytelling; its scattershot focus; its stretches of dull philosophizing–I found Megalopolis to be genuinely impressive. For Megalopolis is nothing if not impressive. Chalk it up to Coppola’s seemingly bottomless well of ideas, all of which have been thrown into the mix with the kitchen sink, and then some. Throw in some not-remotely-subtle references to the Roman empire (the film’s time-stopping main character is named Cesar Catilina, for crying out loud) for good measure, and you end up with a final product so wacky, I couldn’t help but be swept along by the entire effort. 

It’s kind of like what would happen if you resurrected Fellini, introduced him to America’s current political landscape, and asked him to make a film about it, but also threw in an element of goofy “we’re all in this together as ONE HUMAN FAMILY” optimism that wouldn’t feel out of place in your standard Disney film. (Though now that Disney owns Marvel, Disney, and Fox, I’m not sure what exactly qualifies as a “standard” Disney film anymore. I’m not even sure Disney knows the answer to that one.) But the whole thing is so unabashed, so unrestrained, so unequivocally BONKERS, you have to appreciate it on some level. 

Coppola is aided by Adam Driver’s supreme acting chops, which manage to turn the most absurd clunkers into passably respectable dialogue. Driver delivers a lead performance that contains a “go-for-broke” energy, imbuing Megalopolis with genuine humanity and emotion. Nathalie Emmanuel and Giancarlo Esposito are lovely, managing to do a whole lot with a whole little, Aubrey Plaza and Shia LaBeouf are having a ball, and Talia Shire manages to steal the only scenes in which she has anything to say. None of these performances, nor the film’s undeniably fantastic imagery, can make up for a narrative that simply cannot handle the weight of Coppola’s seemingly ceaseless musings, none of which are given the time needed to truly flourish. Plotlines and characters are introduced only to be forgotten on a whim. (Does Cesar’s ability to control time amount to anything outside of a cool visual gimmick?) I keep forgetting that certain, massive names, such as Laurence Fishburne and Dustin Hoffman, are even in the movie. Once all in Megalopolis is said and done, I’m not exactly sure what was actually said or done.

But look. These kinds of grand cinematic experiments simply aren’t made anymore–at least, not by anyone not named Christopher Nolan. Whether the film succeeds or fails at the box office is irrelevant. The true victory is that, after decades of struggle, one of the world’s greatest filmmakers finally got his passion project on the big screen. Its time there may be short-lived, but it happened nonetheless. You can’t help but root for him and his hilariously sweet and optimistic vision of the future. 

And wait for Criterion to pick up the inevitable four and a half hour director’s cut.

FINAL RATING: 3/5

[wonderfulworldofmichaelford]

Psycho Analysis: The 50 Greatest Comic Book Superhero Movie Villains

I think it’s pretty obvious I love villains, considering I have this whole series dedicated to talking about them. And anyone who has followed me for long enough should know that I love superhero movies. So, naturally, I love comic book superhero movie villains. They’re fun, they’re over the top, they’re colorful… They’re the best kinds of villains, especially when a great actor gets pulled in to play them. So why not bring Psycho Analysis back in time for the holidays with a big villain list special?

Here’s the thing: For a long time, comic book movie villains were pretty shitty. You had fun, campy ones every now and then, but most of them were really boring or just plain sucked. You had generic doomsday villains all over the place, or villains who were disrespectful of their comic origins (looking at you, Galactus). Or that’s what I thought going into this, anyway. Turns out there are a lot more villains I would say are genuinely great than ones who I’d call shitty. It’s just the shitty ones are so shitty you think they’re the rule rather than the exception. But that’s another list; right now, we’re celebrating the villains we love to hate.

The rules of this list are simple: So long as the villain has appeared in either a standalone comic book superhero movie, a superhero movie series, or is part of a superhero cinematic universe, they are fair game for this list. I bent the rules a tiny bit in a couple of places, but this is the one consistent rule. This means no Teen Titans Go! To the Movies Slade or Shredder, because despite being based on properties that started as comics, they’re based more on the cartoon version of the characters.

Here are the honorable mentions, the villains who didn’t make the cut for one reason or another (but who I think deserve a shout out regardless): Scarlet Witch (Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness), Gorr (Thor: Love & Thunder), Jigsaw (Punisher: War Zone), Hela (Thor: Ragnarok), Carnage (Venom: Let There Be Carnage), Ebony Maw (Avengers: Infinity War), Steppenwolf (Zack Snyder’s Justice League), The Motherfucker (Kick-Ass 2), and Black Mask (Birds of Prey). Special shout outs to Mr. Mind (Shazam!) and Darkseid (Zack Snyder’s Justice League), who would definitely be on this list if they actually had a chance to do more than look cool and foreshadow future movies (ones that will never happen in the latter’s case). And an apology to Cottonmouth of Luke Cage, a show I have sadly not had a chance to watch; if fan reaction to the character is anything to go by, he’d have ended up on this list. Oh, and if I included comic book movies outside superhero ones, I’d probably have thrown Gideon Gordon Graves (Scott Pilgrim) and maybe, possibly Xerxes (300) on the list as well.

Now, on to the list! Oh, and be aware: There are SPOILERS liberally sprinkled throughout the little blurbs I wrote for each villain. 

50. Poison Ivy

Batman & Robin

Even in a film as campy as Batman & Robin, Poison Ivy is outstandingly campy. Uma Thurman knew exactly what she was doing, making everyone’s favorite sapphic, slutty supervillain the icon she deserves to be, even with some truly stupid haircuts. If only Harley was in the movie.. it boggles the mind.

49. Taserface

Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2

Taserface is one of the funniest minor villains ever. I mean, look at him. This man is absurd, and calls himself “Taserface!” But he’s also scarily effective, pulling off a brutal mutiny and killing most of Yondu’s crew. The man gets no respect up until his death, but he never stops being entertaining.

48. Riddler

Batman Forever

Jim Carrey in his prime as one of the most over-the-top and cartoonish villains in Batman’s rogues gallery? Yes please! This is one of the single campiest performances in either of Schumacher’s Batman films—and that’s saying a lot. He can grate on the nerves a little bit, but Carrey is just having way too much fun. Really didn’t need to see his bulge, though.

47. Sandman

Spider-Man 3

Thomas Haden Church gets big points for being the spitting image of Flint Marko, but he also deserves some credit for delivering a genuinely nuanced and emotional performance in the hot mess of a film he’s in. The scene where he is created is still to this day one of the most powerful moments in any comic book movie ever, a fantastic display of visual storytelling and impressive effects work congealing into a shining moment in a film that doesn’t have many.

46. Obadiah Stane

Iron Man

Stane is a weird one. On the one hand, he’s a precursor to every bad villain in superhero movies to come, as he ends up as a Big Gray CGI Monstrosity with the same powers as the hero. On the other hand, Jeff Bridges is just so delightfully hammy and he is the first of his kind in the modern age, so I think it’s fair to cut him a bit of slack.

45. Red Skull

Captain America: The First Avenger

Hugo Weaving may have initially had little respect for the role, but there’s no denying he put good work into it. Red Skull is sinister, hammy, and deliciously evil, perfect for the pulpy adventure tale of Cap’s debut. I mean, the man backstabs the Third Reich because he considers himself eviler than them, what more could you ask for?

44. Milo

Morbius

Look, you knew at least one “so bad it’s good” villain was gonna be here, and I’ve gotta hand it to Milo; he really makes the most of Morbius’s meticulous mediocrity. Matt Smith I’d clearly having the time of his life, giving a dramatic performance better than this movie deserved and a hammy supervillain performance that this movie desperately needed. And let’s not forget the man has the sickest dance moves this dude of Bully Maguire.

43. Bane

The Dark Knight Rises

The Dark Knight Rises may not be the greatest finale ever, but it did what so many Batman adaptations fail to do: It acknowledged Bane is a cunning mastermind behind the muscles. Throw in an awesome performance from Tom Hardy and a mind-boggling amount of meme-worthy lines and you have yourself a fantastic villain. His truly embarrassing final fate and the fact he was pretty blatantly whitewashed are the only thinga keeping him so low on the list.

42. Violator

Spawn

Spawn may not be the best superhero movie ever, but if there’s one shining spot in it (besides how cool the titular character is), it’s John Leguizamo’s madcap performance as the demonic Clown. Despite being steeped in grimy gross out comedy, he still manages to be fun to watch, mainly because literally everyone around him finds him as disgusting as the audience does. And even if his demon form is hit with janky PS2 CGI, he still manages to get in some badass lines and moments. Bottom line: Leguizamo did not eat actual maggot pizza to miss out on this list.

41. Bullseye

Daredevil

Colin Farrell did not miss the mark with his portrayal of Daredevil’s assassin archenemy. It’s such a fun, hammy, laughably evil performance that helps add a bit of fun to the edgy proceedings by being basically a literal cartoon character come to life. Now if he only got that fucking costume…

40. Arthur Harrow

Moon Knight

Transforming a minor, unimpressive villain from the comics into a credible threat onscreen is par for the course for superhero media, but few end up quite this impressive. Most of the credit has to go to Ethan Hawke, who really gives it his all as the sorcerous cult leader, but I think the imagined version inside Marc’s mind that’s the head doctor of the psychiatric facility is where he really shines, as it plays with our perception a bit.

39. Ultron

Avengers: Age of Ultron and What If…?

Here is a villain desperately seeking a film worthy of him. James Spader is giving such a fun, engaging performance with only a couple of hiccups, but everything around him is just so quippy and stupid that the film struggles to take him seriously. Still, he deserves a spot here at the very least for his incredibly realistic villain origin: He took one look at the internet and decided humanity needed to be destroyed. And hey, if nothing else What If…? gave him a chance to shine and be the threat he deserves to be!

38. Ulysses Klaue

Black Panther

Andy Serkis sadly gets offed halfway through Black Panther, but even with his limited screentime he has become a beloved minor antagonist. It helps he managed to have a fantastic cameo in Age of Ultron (one of the sole bright spots in that film), and that for his role as the first act’s villain in Black Panther Serkis approaches the role with such humor and grimy charm that you’ll probably feel bad when this scumbag ends up in a body bag.

37. The Thinker

The Suicide Squad

The roulette wheel of villains in The Suicide Squad eventually lands on Peter Capaldi’s maniacal mad scientist, and while he doesn’t have any major fights he manages to steal the show with just how slimy and egotistical he is. He’s just a nasty, awful bastard, and being responsible for the final villain going full kaiju rampage is worth making it on this list.

36. Lex Luthor

Superman Returns

It’s so fucking sad that despite being used in almost every Superman film ever made, the onily time his most iconic foe was ever good when he was played by real-life creep Kevin Spacey. But hey, being a villain in real life gives just the right touch of unhinged ego and cockiness Luthor needs.

35. Top Dollar

The Crow

When I made the list of the 30 best comic book superhero movies, I left off The Crow, mainly because I didn’t think of it as a superhero movie (it’s more like a friend to me if I’m being honest). Kind of a harsh snub there, so as an apology Michael Wincott’s effortlessly cool and needlessly cruel gangster overlord gets to take a place on this list. Not many people can bang their half-sibling and still come away being awesome, but somehow owning the Six-Fingered Sword from The Princess Bride and using it in a duel probably goes a long way towards making Top Dollar one of the most memorable crime bosses you’ll ever see.

34. Dr. Sivana

Shazam!

When you have a villain as silly as “Doctor who harnesses the powers of the seven deadly sins because of darkness in his heart to get revenge” you need a damn good actor to pull that off. Mark Strong is a damn good actor, and this is a taste of what we could have had if they let him play Sinestro more than once. I for one can’t wait to see him take orders from an evil caterpillar!

33. Sabretooth

X-Men Origins: Wolverine

Liev Schreiber makes his first mark on this list as Wolverine’s ultraviolent archenemy, and easily the best part of Origins. He’s fun and menacing, and a lot more memorable than whatever the hell that poser in the original X-Men was. The greatest crime of the franchise (besides piss-poor continuity and bad writing and over reliance on Wolverine) was never bringing back Sabretooth to plague good old Logan one more time.

32. Penguin

The Batman

In a movie as dark as this, we need a little bit of levity. Enter Penguin, here imagined as a cartoonish mobster that would almost be out of place if this movie didn’t clearly have a bit of West influence in it. Colin Farrell is no stranger to playing hilariously cartoonish supervillains so in his role here he excels, and it’s easy to see why he’s getting his own spin-off series.

31. Sebastian Shaw

X-Men: First Class

Long before he spent Christmas with the Guardians of the Galaxy, Kevin Bacon terrorized the X-Men in one of their best outings. While he’s not winning any points for comic accuracy, he definitely wins points for being responsible for Magneto’s start of darkness, being the one who killed his mother (and thus a Nazi). He’s a slimy supremacist bastard, and it’s oh so satisfying to watch Magneto make sure there’s zero degrees of separation between his skull and a magnetized coin.

30. Ozymandias

Watchmen

As is often the case with Snyder’s Watchmen, the movie misses the point a bit here. They turned the charming, charismatic, muscular Chad that was the comic Adrian into a cold, brooding, emotionally distant soyboy. It kinda ruins the surprise that this dude is the evil mastermind. Still, with how slavishly loyal the film is, it still manages to make Veidt one of the finest and most morally complex supervillains to hit the big screen… he’s just not quite as impressive as his comic version (though really, who is?).

29. Zemo

Captain America: Civil War and The Falcon and the Winter Soldier

Zemo is the obvious evolution of the supervillain archetype Loki codified, but he is far more refined. His motives are solid and understandable, his methods are heinous enough to root against, and he makes some valid points. Then he proceeds to do what not even Thanos could: He tears the Avengers apart. He’s the rare villain who actually wins, the rarer villain who actually gets to live, and the rarest villain of all who gets to return, steal the show with awkward dance moves and praising Marvin Gaye, and—most crucially—look cool wearing a purple sock on his head.

28. Ocean Master

Aquaman

Good old Orm doesn’t make the list by being the deepest or most complex character (though he’s not lacking in depth and is pretty understandable in some of his motives), but by being just so delightfully comic booky. He’s hammy, he poses, he wears a silly helmet, and he acts as a great narrative foil for our hero. Bonus points for not only being a villain who is at least a little justified to the point he’s redeemed—by the power of love, no less!—but one who survives the movie to get more development later on.

27. Doctor Doom

The Fantastic Four

The unreleased Fantastic Four film of the 90s may have been hobbled by a budget consisting of change they found in the couch cushions, but the love and respect for the source material always managed to shine through. Nowhere is that more evident than with Doom; he’s hammy, he’s grandiose, he has a giant castle and throne room, he acts like everyone except him is a total idiot, and he won’t stop calling Reed a douchebag even when he’s about to fall to his ambiguous death. He may not put up much of a fight, but this Doom is head and shoulders above Dooms with a thousand times the budget.

26. Justin Hammer

Iron Man 2

Iron Man 2 is a sloppy film that was a grim omen of problems that would plague the MCU later down the line, but it did one thing right in giving the world the inimitable Justin Hammer. Where Tony Stark is an idealized fantasy billionaire who is actually a good person who wants to help people, Hammer is a more realistic take to serve as a contrast. He’s smug, he’s smarmy, he engages in all manner of illegal activity to undermine his betters, and most crucially he is an incredible idiot. This man is basically the MCU version of Elon Musk, but where Musk’s attempts at trying to be cool are pathetic and cringeworthy, Hammer’s attempts to ape Tony’s style just serve to make him endearing. And do you think Musk could ever have dance moves half as sick as Hammer’s? Get real.

25. The Grandmaster

Thor: Ragnarok

It’s Jeff Goldblum as space Caligula. ‘Nuff said.

24. Mr. Freeze

Batman & Robin

People have ragged on Arnold’s campy Freeze for years due to his non-stop barrage of ice puns, but much like his home movie he’s honestly not as bad as the haters would make you think. Schwarzenegger is adept at both comedy and drama, and is able to deftly balance the tragic melodrama of Freeze’s backstory and his campy cartoonishness, all while wearing one of the coolest costumes ever seen. And you know what? The ice puns aren’t that bad. Chill out.

23. Prowler

Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse

Uncle Aaron is an inspired take on Uncle Ben, a character who has been done to death (literally). The positive dynamic he has with his nephew is familiar, but the fact he has a criminal alter ego who is relentlessly and unknowingly hunting his beloved nephew down for Kingpin is a fresh take on a tired tale. He still dies, and his death is the catalyst for Miles to fully embrace being Spider-Man, while alive he is equal parts menacing force and tragic figure. With apologies to Miss Octavius, he’s definitely the best secondary antagonist in the film.

22. Penguin

Batman Returns

Danny DeVito’s portrayal of Penguin as a tragic, deformed monster as opposed to a classy gangster has gone on to inform basically every portrayal of the character since, to the point where sticking closer to the character’s roots is seen as weird. It’s not a surprise, though; DeVito manages to make Penguin a menacing, creepy villain as well as a pitiable figure all at once.

21. Vulture

Spider-Man: Homecoming

Michael Keaton is no stranger to comic book movies, and here he demonstrated he is just as adept at playing badass villains as he is at playing heroes. Taking one of Spider-Man’s corniest villains and giving him a high tech upgrade and sympathetic motivation was a smart move, as was keeping him noble even in the end. Of course, his best scene doesn’t even have him in his bird suit; it has him in his regular clothes, slowly piecing together the truth about Peter while the boy sits in the backseat of his car. Keaton’s acting in the car ride scene is something else entirely.

20. Loki

Marvel Cinematic Universe

I was personally not a huge fan of Loki’s turn as an out and out doomsday villain in the first Avengers movie, but it’s hard to deny his impact on the medium and how he was the first villain in the MCU to actually have nuance, which was much better showcased in the Thor films. And you’ll never hear a bad word from me about Tom Hiddleston’s performance, which is fantastic no matter what he’s in, up to being the best part of every episode of What If...? he’s in. It’s no wonder Loki got his own spin-off show with all that in mind.

19. White Dragon

Peacemaker

Peacemaker’s dad is probably the biggest piece of shit on this list, being an openly racist neo-Nazi supervillain and one of the most abusive fathers you’ll ever see. By all accounts he shouldn’t be as cool as he is, but between Robert Patrick’s fantastic performance and James Gunn being a master of writing conflicts between parents and children like this, he becomes an enjoyable hate sink you oh so badly want to see get what’s coming to him. And even better, despite being built up as a genius inventor and badass villain, he makes crucial errors in his suit’s construction that leads to his demise, showing once and for all that for all their posturing, white supremacists are just fucking morons who fold like wet paper at the slightest opposition.

18. General Zod

Superman II

Terrence Stamp took a villain who wasn’t quite iconic and managed to make him on the level of Luthor when it comes to Superman villains almost anyone could name, to the point where Stamp’s portrayal influenced the comic version going forwards. He has an air of class and menace that makes it pretty easy to want to kneel before him. Zod has become a little overexposed, being the go-to Superman bad guy when they don’t feel like using Luthor, but when the original take was this good it’s seriously hard to fault them too much.

17. Mysterio

Spider-Man: Far From Home

Mysterio isn’t just brilliant because he’s a fun, meta take on a great goofy comic villain, with him and his team essentially being Marvel movie creators gone bad, fabricating CGI spectacle to gain accolades. And he’s not just brilliant because of that fantastic illusion sequence where he puts Spidey through a dizzying nightmare trip. No, he’s brilliant because not only did he convince the world at large that he’s an incredible hero, he managed to convince some audience members that he’s just a poor, innocent worker who was taken advantage of by his former billionaire boss (which ignores so much, but especially that he’s working with someone who was complicit in dealing arms to terrorists). He’s certainly not a hero, but he’s most definitely a master of illusions.

16. Starro

The Suicide Squad

Starro serves as the final boss of The Suicide Squad, unleashing kaiju destruction on Corto Maltese. And like all great kaiju, there is an air of tragedy to the big starfish; he never wanted any of this, in its final moments choosing to lament how content it was to simply drift through space before it was kidnapped and forced to undergo perverse experiments at the hands of the American government (and particularly Thinker). Starro doesn’t even want to fight the Squad at first, implying it’s grateful to them for freeing it from torture. The Squad may not put much thought into how tragic Starro’s lot is, but the audience sure will.

15. Agatha Harkness

WandaVision

In a technical sense, Agatha didn’t do too much wrong besides gaslight Wanda in an attempt to steal her powers. Sure, she kidnaps Wanda’s kids and kills their dog, but none of those things are real; and sure, she hypnotized Ralph Bohner (heh) into thinking he was Quicksilver, but it’s no worse than Wanda’s mass brainwashing of Westview. But she just relishes so much in being a wicked witch, from her torment of Wanda to her insanely catchy villain song, that I’m inclined to take her word for it and say she’s a bad guy. She’s definitely getting some kind of redemption in her own show, but for now Kathryn Hahn camping it up like she just walked off the set of Hocus Pocus can take high marks on this list.

14. Amanda Waller

DC Cinematic Universe

I don’t think there has ever been such an impressive turnaround for a comic book villain ever. It was never a matter of Viola Davis, who gave her all from day one, but a matter of how abysmal the writing in Suicide Squad was, portraying her as an incompetent idiot who was still allowed to get away with everything in the end. Once Gunn took the reigns of the franchise, though, Waller finally got her due, sending an entire squad to their death as a distraction and basically playing 4D chess for the whole movie. She gets her comeuppance too, so it’s a lot more satisfying watching her win a few schemes when you know she can lose a few too. Being a greater-scope villain for Peacemaker just further cemented her as being the magnificent bitch the character should be; we can only hope she keeps it up in her next major appearance.

13. Kingpin

Daredevil (The movie and the Netflix series), Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse

It’s honestly amazing that a villain as seemingly simple as Wilson Fisk has not only been done differently three times in ways that make him cool and engaging, but he’s also maintained a high level of quality in every appearance. Michael Clarke Duncan brought size and intimidation to his version, doing so well despite Daredevil’s weak theatrical cut he got to reprise the role in the underrated Spider-Man: The New Animated Series; Liev Schreiber voiced the memeiest version of the character to date, one who even holds the distinction of killing one Spider-Man and inadvertently creating another; and Vincent D’onofrio is so good he managed to pull the entire Netflix Daredevil show into the MCU canon with his appearance in Hawkeye. Fisk would be the easiest villain in the world to half-ass and make generic, but we’ve been blessed with fantastic actors in the role. Kingpin gets the distinction of being the one of only two villains with multiple entries in one spot.

12. Kilgrave

Jessica Jones

David Tennant is the third and final former Doctor to make the list, and he’s so good at being a bad I bent the rules ever so slightly to get him in on the list. The canonicity of Jessica Jones to the MCU is a bit unclear right now, but do we really want to live in a world where his fantastically chilling performance is Thanos’d from the timeline? A walking avatar of rape culture and a laundry list of microagressions, Kilgrave is one of the slimiest, most sadistic, most reprehensible characters ever conceived… and yet you can’t help but love to hate him.

11. Catwoman

Batman Returns

There have been plenty of Catwomans in film, with her being portrayed as a hero, an anti-hero, and even a silly Silver Age villainess. But I think Miss Kyle was done best as an antagonist in the hands of Michelle Pfeiffer, who absolutely nails the dynamic between Selina and Bruce (and their alter egos) as well as portraying the inherent tragedy of this take on the character. Throw in Pfeiffer looking damn fine in that costume and her handling the whip like a pro, and you have what might just be the purr-fect Catwoman.

10. Namor

Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

Phase 4 of the MCU was largely uneven, with villains who could have been great under better circumstances being held back by sloppy narrative choices. Big names like Gorr and Scarlet Witch were let down by weak stories, so there was a sense of dread I had going into Wakanda Forever that they’d let down one of Marvel’s oldest and most iconic anti-heroes. I had nothing to worry about in the end; Tenoch Huerta brought the character to life with all the charm, charisma, and command of the screen the Sub-Mariner deserves, and boy does he look good. The story treats him with the respect he deserves (no jokes about his ankle wings!) and while he’s certainly no Killmonger, he easily cements himself as a fantastic anti-hero who you can’t wait to see more of. And really, I can’t stress this enough: He is really fucking hot.

9. Riddler

The Batman

I’m sure I’m in the same boat as a lot of people, where I saw the Zodiac-inspired getup of the new Riddler and thought this was going to be a Nolanesque gritty reimagining of the character. But lo and behold, we got something infinitely better: A Riddler that utilizes all manner of gruesome Saw traps while also maintaining the hilarious campy quality that’s inherent to the character. He sends personalized greeting cards with clues, he hosts evil livestreams for his fans, he sings “Ave Maria” to Batman, and most importantly he has a sick sense of humor. I love Jim Carrey, but he ain’t got shit on Paul Dano when it comes to riddlin’.

8. Joker

Batman: The Movie, Batman, The Dark Knight, and Joker

Joker is a character who always manages to get a fresh take despite being absolutely done to death, and each interpretation highlights a different aspect that makes the character great. Romero’s Joker is very much the playful, criminal prankster; Nicholson is the swaggering, comically violent gangster; Ledger is the chilling, maniacal anarchist; and Phoenix is the disturbed, broken man who had one really bad day. And the one thing common across all of them is that each of them has made the Joker a consistently compelling and engaging villain. And while he hasn’t done enough yet to get in on this spot of the list entirely, Barry Keoghan deserves a shout out for portraying Joker as he truly is: A giggling, hideous, conniving freak.

7. Thanos

Avengers: Infinity War and Avengers: Endgame

Thanos was a villain nearly a decade in the making, getting teased in The Avengers before making sporadic appearances here and there. His lack of direct action in the franchise had some worried… and then he stole the show in Infinity War, kicked everyone’s ass, and emerged victorious. They managed to take a villain whose main goal in the comics is to fuck a skeleton and somehow make him work, namely by keeping his headstrong self-righteousness intact even if he isn’t trying to bone the grim reaper, with Josh Brolin delivering one of the finest performances of his career. There are other villains that are better than him, but there aren’t any villains who truly feel as grand of epic as he did, and with DC dropping Darkseid from their cinematic universe it’s doubtful there ever will be one again, at least not for a very long time.

6. Doctor Octopus

Spider-Man 2 and Spider-Man: No Way Home

Alfred Molina’s Otto Octavius is an excellent contrast to Dafoe’s Goblin. Where Gobby is hammy, hilarious, and gleefully sadistic, Octavius is grandiose in a more understated way and a lot more tragic, while still managing to be as fun as a mad scientist with robot tentacles should be. You can definitely tell Molina is bringing his stage acting skills to the table here with how he carries himself and delivers his lines, making Octavius stand out among the more traditionally campy villains in Raimi’s other films. He got to return for an encore in No Way Home and gets the awesome fight scene and redemption arc he deserved, fully rounding him out and giving the diabolical doctor a happy ending all while proving that he makes movies better just by being in them.

5. Xu Wenwu

Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings

Shang-Chi would be a nearly perfect movie if not for one thing: It kills off one of the single greatest and most complex villains in the MCU for a CGI dragon battle. They managed to take two of the most infamous “Yellow Peril” characters in pop culture (Fu Manchu and the Mandarin) and gave him depth and complexity, his complicated relationship with his children driving the plot more than anything else. It’s a testament to how good the writing and how good Tony Leung’s performance is that he’s this high, because despite his death the impact on his children doesn’t disappear just because it’s time for CGI monsters. This more than makes up for how lame Guy Pearce Mandarin was, that’s for sure.

4. Ego

Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2

Familial conflict is the cornerstone of many great villains, and Ego has that in spades. At first it seems like Marvel’s living planet has undergone adaptational kindness, with him genuinely coming across as a fun father figure to Peter, but that just makes the big twist hit even harder. Ego becomes even nastier retroactively, as on top of what he did to Peter’s mother and scores of his own children, the holiday special reveals Mantis is his child and he only kept her alive as a slave for her powers. He’s genuinely one of the nastiest, most twisted villains the MCU ever showed us, and he more than lives up to his name with his narcissistic plan to reshape the universe in his image. Kurt Russell absolutely knocked it out of the park with his performance. 

3. Magneto

X-Men film series

Be it Sir Ian McKellan or Michael Fassbender, you could always count on one thing with Magneto: He’d be one of the most compelling parts of the film. Watch McKellan and Fassbender carry The Last Stand and Apocalypse, respectively, and see how this iconic anti-villain can make even the biggest turds watchable. And when the movie is genuinely good, such as X2, First Class, or Days of Future Past… That’s where the real fun comes in. Magneto is one of the single greatest characters ever created, and thankfully even with the spotty track record of the X-Men films it never felt like he wasn’t given his due.

2. Green Goblin

Spider-Man and Spider-Man: No Way Home

We can argue all day about whether or not his costume is stupid, but one thing that is utterly inarguable is that Willem Dafoe delivered the gold standard for hammy supervillains. Playing up the Goblin as something of a split personality, Dafoe can instantly switch from the sympathetic Norman to the cackling Gobby with ease, something really demonstrated by his return in No Way Home. Across two cinematic universes, Gobby proved himself to be Spidey’s greatest and most personal foe, and more importantly than that he proved to be an endless fountain of memes thanks to his insanely quotable lines. If you’re making a cackling, campy comic book movie villain, they are gonna have to try really hard to make it out of Gobby’s shadow.

1. Erik Killmonger

Black Panther

When I began making this list, there was never any question who number one was going to be. Of fucking course it was always gonna be Killmonger, a villain who is so cool, stylish, badass, and complex that he completely redeems the film’s awkward PS3 cutscene of a final battle thanks to his genuinely impactful death scene immediately after. He’s so good that when he shows up for a surprise appearance in Wakanda Forever he absolutely and completely eclipses how great Namor is and reminds us all why he was such a great villain with only a single scene. What’s most impressive, however, is that technically he did win in the end, being directly responsible for T’Challa dying as well as inspiring him during life to open up to the world and try and help black people around the world. Michael B. Jordan proves once and for all that whatever problems his role as Johnny Storm had, it wasn’t on him; the man is one of the best actors of our time.

[stargirlfics]

uma Thurman did what she did and I respect it but I feel like something about poison ivys character screams black woman to me. maybe the way she loves Harley. the way she defends idk. like when she threatens joker and has him all in the plants. That’s raw. She’s just like ..: that’s a black woman

you’re so right that’s exactly what she feels like to me too bestie you put it into words 😭

[about-faces]

The director Joel Schumacher has passed away, and everyone's reactions have boiled down to two topics: 1.) "He was the guy who made the bad Batman films," and 2.) "Hey, he did lots of great films besides the bad Batman films!"

Thing is... I get it. I remember being a teenage comic fan in the 90's. Not just any comics: especially Batman! But ESPECIALLY Bart especially Two-Face. I remember how "Joel Schumacher" was a name that could invoke white-hot rage in myself and everyone in the fandom. He was our modern equivalent of Dr. Fredrick Wertham, the boogyman who had (far as we were concerned) single-handedly destroyed the mainstream credibility of superheroes.

Look at that picture, and try to imagine that this was the face so loathed and mocked by Batman fanboys in the 90′s.

Never mind that Schumacher didn't WRITE the Batman films. The main credit for that goes to Akiva Goldsman, who has gone on to win an Oscar and continues to find A-list success despite ruining other geek properties like Jonah Hex and Dark Tower. Never mind that Schumacher was at the mercy of producers who wanted the movies to be nothing more than merchandise machines and toy commercials. No, Schumacher was the only name associated with the films, and he was cast at the villain.

The fact that he was openly gay played no small part in making him an easy target.

One year after the disastrous release of the infamous Batman & Robin, the beloved fan-favorite cartoon Batman: The Animated Series (then rebranded as The New Batman Adventures on the WB network) produced an episode that featured a pointed jab at Schumacher. The episode was titled "Legends of the Dark Knight," a reworking of a classic 70's Batman tale where a group of kids share their own ideas of what the mysterious Batman is really like.

Halfway through the episode, the kids are overheard by another kid, who shares his own ideas about Batman. The kid, whose name is Joel, has long dirty-blond hair, and works in front of a store which bear the sign "Shoemaker," despite clearly being a department store. He waxes dreamily about the reasons he loves Batman: "All those muscles, the tight rubber armor and that flashy car. I heard it can drive up walls!"

This last line--a reference to a silly bit in Batman Forever--he says as he flamboyantly tosses a pink fur stole around his neck. To drive home the joke, one of the kids dismisses, "Yeah, sure, Joel."

At the time, it seemed like a cathartic joke for us REAL Batman fans. Now, it's clearly just cheap and gross. Instead of any actual criticism about the films, Joel Schumacher was just seen--even if just subconsciously--as the fruit who ruined Batman.

Over time, the hatred for Schumacher lessened. Starting with Blade, X-Men, and Spider-Man, on through to Batman Begins, Iron Man, and onward, superhero movies became huge mainstream successes, with greater fidelity to the source material than most adaptations we saw up to the time that Schumacher "killed" the superhero movie. There was no point in hating him anymore, if there ever was (again, Goldsman more deserves that ire, if you're gonna be angry about anyone. Why does he still get work?! WHY IS HE NOW WRITING FOR STAR TREK?!?!).

But even still, especially among Millennial and Gen-X fans, Schumacher is still--at best--considered a low point for fandom. Even though the same generations have come to appreciate and love some of his other films, such as The Lost Boys, Phone Booth, and the chillingly-prescient Falling Down, there's still this need for people to dismiss the Batman films as embarrassments that are best forgotten in favor of Schumacher's better films. And if they're to be remembered at all, it's to trash them all over again in a tone suggesting that the films are objectively, irredeemably bad.

Except they're not. Oh sure, if you go in looking for a grim and gritty capital-M "Mature" take on Batman, of course you'll hate them, just like you probably also hate the Adam West Batman show. Remember, that show also used to be hated by decades of Batman fans because of how it didn't take the comics seriously.

... except it did. The show was VERY faithful to the Batman comics of the 50's, which often out-weirded and out-sillied its TV counterpart. If anything, the show made some of those stories even more entertaining with camp value and jokes that added different levels of enjoyment to the adults watching. Comic fans resented how Batman became a pop culture joke, and increasingly fought against anything that was colorful and campy (which makes me wonder if this might also be related to latent homophobia). Whether or not they admitted/realized it, the Batman fans of the 70's and 80's carried a chip on their shoulder about a show that DARED to make Batman FUN.

And really... how is that any different than Schumacher's two films?

You don't have to agree, but I think Schumacher's films are fun. I think Batman Forever is highly entertaining, that Tommy Lee Jones and Jim Carrey are bringing their hammy A-games as much respected actors like Burgess Meredith and Caesar Romero brought to their roles. Same goes for Arnold and especially Uma in Batman and Robin. They KNOW what movies they're in, and they're all having a blast.

(How many of us remember the exact line Eddie says at this moment? I bet you probably do too, which should tell you something about how memorable this movie is)

Now, BF and particularly B&A are by no means GOOD movies, but you can't tell me that you couldn't have a blast putting the latter on at a party and riffing it with friends. It's not a pretentious, ponderous, self-serious slog like, say, the shit Zack Snyder cranked out (apologies to the one or two cool Snyder fans here, I just find his films interminable). Even besides the many things I could say to defend Schumacher's Batman films (that's a whole other essay), you can't say they were boring. They were entertaining, even if on a level of making fun of the film, and that is NOT as easy as it looks.

Let me put it to you this way: Batman Forever has, objectively, one of the worst takes on Two-Face I've ever seen. He's one-note, he's kind of a rehash of Nicholson's Joker, he gets completely overshadowed by the Riddler, he gets killed by Batman in a way that completely betrays the whole “DON’T KILL HARVEY” arc with Robin, and worst of all, he CHEATS on the coin toss. That alone would be enough for me to condemn this depiction in any other Two-Face story.

And yet, even I--the most passionate, opinionated, and picky Two-Face fan you will EVER know--still have a soft spot for Tommy Lee Jones' take on ol' Harv. He’s just too fun, too flamboyant, too damn extra not to love. If only all bad takes on Two-Face could be this fun!

But that’s the thing: it’s not because the script was good. Oh god no. I've read the script, and if it were put on the page like a comic, I would have hated it just like any other bad Two-Face comic. I have to imagine that, as director, Joel Schumacher deserves the bulk of the credit for pushing the restrained and laconic Tommy Lee Jones into that oversized performance, and making it a delight to watch despite everything it does wrong.

I'm rare for my generation to have learned how to stop worrying and love Schumacher's Batman. But the younger generation, the up-and-coming Gen-Zs getting into Batman, don't share the same grudges we did. There's a genuine, shame-free enjoyment of those films among The Kids, many of whom are LGBTQA+, who love the jokes, the silliness, the camp, the Freeze puns, the swag of Uma Thurman, and the homoerotic subtext between Two-Face and the Riddler. Maybe it's just a reaction to so much GRIM, SERIOUS shit that DC and their fanboys are trying desperately to push even today.

But comics--especially Batman--have a long history of colorful, stupid, fun shit. Schumacher's films carried on in that tradition, and they should be appreciated on their own merits by those of us who aren't limited by narrow ideas of what Batman "should" be, and who still remember how to have fun.

Schumacher's Batman films should no longer be seen as embarrassments. They didn't ruin superheroes. They didn't ruin Batman. They didn't even ruin Two-Face. Nor should they be disregarded in favor of Falling Down, like losers in a respectability competition. They're fun. They're entertaining. And they didn't pretend to be anything else.

And if you still think they're bad... I mean, objectively, you're not wrong! But be mindful of the reasons WHY you think they're bad, because on another subjective level, you may not be right either. And it's certainly not worth holding a geek-grudge over after twenty-five years.

[valleeeeejo]

You know its very difficult to not sound pompous having a blog because what do I really have to say? I'm very much not like the girlbloggers that are all low contrast low saturation baby waif whatever whatever... nothing against it just not me personally as a girlblogger... ya know? thats why I feel the conviction to be vocal because im an outlier, It's really annoying when you're seen as a girl first before anything else... not a person but a little hormonal teenage girl that just believes anything thats pretty and sparkly. A dumb broad that doesn't know what she's talking about... theres this belief that its all about how skinny how pretty how white you are and the more of those things you are the more people listen the more they care

The other day I was hanging out with some people from yee old tech school and right and most of these people I like really didn't know but I'm like friendly I'm outgoing... and im trying to make conversation with everyone right get acquainted I like to break the ice quick... we were chilling in this great vast suburban backyard and out come these dudes with swords fighting and im like um plz I WANNA PLAY KILL BILL like any chance to play Uma Thurman I will.... it was like they were in their own bubble they didnt respond like... they just continued even after a couple of times of me trying to get their attention I gave up... I sat there like damn these dudes don't even respect me... its just like playground politics. Like it doesn't matter how common our interests were they still would look at me like an alien with 3 heads because im a girl. Nothing else besides a girl...

I always roll my eyes at comments about the "not like other girls" girl because I understand the frustration... I mean every girl has to understand where that frustration comes from.. not taken seriously not being able to "hang" because you're a just a girl. Theres just different ways to cope with that, maybe you lean into it maybe you back away. But it's just insulting to say that this philosophy is all in the interest of attracting men, all of the masculine interests and boyish mannerisms are all an alluring illusion to simply attract men.... as if it wouldn't be easier to put on a cute skirt bat my lashes and go on with my day. Thats just not fulfilling for me why cosplay something that you're not,

[patina-millers-biceps]

Tell us how you would redo SMASH tell ussssss

OH HELL YEH Thanks.

OK, SO in my ideal world, Smash runs for 5 seasons. Remember that bc I’ll come back to that later. Overall Tone: I would take it all... and dial it up to 100.  Remember Ellis? Now EVERY character is that fucking crazy. It’s like Glee if Glee was self-aware to how batshit crazy it was, and relished it. The problem was that Theresa Rebeck (season 1) knows what NYC theatre is like, tried to be realistic, but also make it relatable to middle America, and that Joshua Safran (season 2) does not but also tried the same things. When really they needed someone who A) knew what NYC theatre was like B) didn’t give a fuck and C) didn’t give a fuck also about if middle America found it relatable.  But Sarah! What about viewings? You ask. Well, if YOU’RE the moron who’s going to write about a hyper-specific industry I think you just gotta dive in. Commit. Make everything fucking crazy and completely unrelatable to literally everyone. Riverdale that shit but make it good writing. Ultimately, it’s why season 1 worked better. Because at least my girl Theresa knew how to write drama without resorting to burying her gays. I think she should have taken it up higher though. Like, when Uma Thurman’s character got an allergic reaction? I think Karen and Ivy should have teamed up to poison her. I said what I said.  As for the Team Ivy vs. Team Karen? We’re balancing a tricky line here bc it has to be dramatic but also not misogynistic. (that season 1 Ivy character assassination? Bad.)   Ideally, these two would go from hating each others GUTS to reluctantly teaming up against movie star Rebecca (Uma Thurman would thus have to appear earlier and stay longer), deciding that they are in love actually like each other, and cheering on their successes and hating on the MEN who force them against each other. (But while we’re on the subject... #TeamIvy).  That Out Of The Way: Season 1: The Bombshell Workshop Phase Season 1 would ONLY follow the workshop phases of season 1. Which is most of it. Here we have Ivy and Karen’s strangers to enemies to reluctant teammates to friends to lovers arc. This is the emotional core of the show. Rebecca Uma Thurman has to show up around the midway point. Julia’s adoption arc? Throw it out. Sorry Ms. Rebeck i stan you but it sucks. Focus on her and Tom’s friendship as the secondary emotional standpoint. They’ve worked with with other for years!! That dynamic is awesome!! But they were fighting the whole ass show??? Nah. Pit them against Derek. I would change nothing with Eileen.  Oh I also don’t give a shit about Karen’s shitty boyfriend. Season 2: The Bombshell Out of Town Tryout/ Enter Hit List  The first half of season two is the out of town tryout with #TeamIvyKaren against #TeamRebecca coming to a head through rehearsals and the first few previews. Like, I’m talking some Phantom of the Opera level fuckery these two are doing. Falling set pieces, costume malfunction, Ivy actually fucking putting the peanuts in her smoothie. It’s seen as OK bc in this version of Smash Rebecca is a terrible person who has no respect for the ~~**~Theatre~~**~~ The creative team still choose Karen as Marilyn (why?) but she doesn’t get good reviews!! This causes Karen to freak out if the theatre life is really right for her when she meets Jimmy and Kyle. Karen jumps ship to Hit List, Ivy rises to her rightful place as Marilyn in Bombshell. Rehearsals begin to reshape the show for Broadway, Hit List lands its Off-Broadway run. Season 3: Broadway Here I Come/ It’s Tony Time Babey!!  Bombshell opens on Broadway, Hit List opens Off-Broadway and KYLE DOESN’T FUCKING DIE (He still gets hit by a car, everyone thinks he died at first, but he’s just in a coma for a few episodes wherein he has weird out-of-body experiences.) Hit List transfers to Broadway.  BUT WE HAVE SOME DRAMA because Movie Star Rebecca has landed the role of Maggie in a revival of Cat on a Hot Tin Roof! We have some cross-show hate bt Bombshell/ Hit List/ and Cat on a Hot Tin Roof because they’re all on 45th street. There’s drama bt Julia and Kyle bc of Kyle’s fling with Tom! But will it last? No! Kyle ends up really hitting it off with Wesley Taylor’s ensemble member character when he visits Tom backstage at Bombshell! Eileen threw one too many drink in her ex husbands face and he’s legally blind now also she’s producing Bombshell AND Hit List! I’m fucking crapping that shit with Ana getting booted from Hit List and Derek being a perv. Karen and ivy still really hate Rebecca (??? it’s Smash it doesn’t have to make sense!) so they stage a coup and replace her in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof with Jennifer Hudson’s character! The Tonys happen! I liked how they worked out in the show, so i’ll keep that. Jimmy still goes to prison! Tom gets back together with Sam!  Season 4: That’s How We Keep 8 Shows A Week Fresh Y’all  Basically what it sounds like. We go back and forth between Hit List and Bombshell and the absolute CHAOS of backstage on Fake Broadway. There’s a snowstorm that shuts down the city, people hooking up backstage. Derek has an actual redemption arc. Ivy does not get knocked up bc she knows how to use birth control. The Big Story is how bc Eileen is involved with some illegal shit if it’s going to all come crashing down on the unsuspecting actors and writers. Tom and Julia start writing their Great Gatsby Musical. Fictional Lin-Manuel Miranda is there. Jimmy gets out of prison and rejoins the cast. This season takes up about 2 years of time and will be dubbed the weakest one by critics and fans alike.  Season 5: Big Finish!   Bombshell and Hit List have been running for about 3 years total by now. Eileen’s illegal shit comes out. Bombshell and Hit List have to close! It’s a really long that takes up the whole season. All the camp of the previous seasons is gone now and it actually is really beautiful and sad. Some real “What I Did For Love” shit.  At the end, Hit List is able to transfer back Off-Broadway a la Jersey Boys and Avenue Q with a new producer, Bombshell dies but goes out strong and is recorded for PBS and eventual DVD. Ivy now finds out she’s pregnant and also joins the workshop of The Great Gatsby The Musical as Daisy, Ana is Jordan Baker, Sam is Jay Gatsby, Nick Carraway is played Nick Jonas’s character who no one has seen since season 1. Derek is the director.  Another Op’ning Another Show yall.  Karen and Ivy reunite to sing “Big Finish”  End of Series.    You’re welcome everyone, even though literally only 1 person asked for this. 

[pecocotte]

Gaga, Gwen Stefani, Fergie and third wave feminism

Using Female Empowerment as a Cover Story for Whiteness and Racial Hierarchy in Pop Culture: Interrogating the Intersections of Racial Appropriation and Feminist Discourse in the Performances of Fergie, Gwen Stefani, and Lady Gaga

Rebecca Lynne Clark Mane 2012

So today’s post is the first part of a summary of PhD Rebecca Lynne Clark Mane published in 2012 (I think she was not PhD yet), her dissertation is really fascinating but also 300 pages so this first post will be a definition of the first key term of her dissertation: The third wave feminist Icon and I will try to do a second post on her argument on racial appropriation.

So the make her argument she defines the feminist icon of the third wave in popular music and uses Fergie, Gwen Stefani and Lady Gaga as example. Although in her dissertation she uses those examples to demonstrate how those icons are using racial symbolism to assert white domination I will for now only focus on her definition of powerful woman.

Again, her definition may be controversial and many can find it incorrect, but she does not defend that those particular artists or acts are feminist rather that they symbolize powerful women and that they symbolise some ideals of the third wave. But is it undeniable this era’s media offers this image of sexy powerful kickass women such as: hit girl in the movie Kick-ass, Uma Thurman in Kill Bill or Lara Croft.  Not to forget that the three artists did take distance from the term feminist on several occasions, in an interview Lady Gaga mentioned that she could not be feminist since she love men -as if it could prevent being a feminist-, but she later stated that she indeed as a feminist but a very feminine one. Gwen Stefani said she believed in all the main feminist ideas but she was not one. This detachment from the term ‘feminism’ is called ‘postfeminism’ many feel that the main goal of feminism have been achieved, therefore feminism is no longer required and the remaining one are ‘crazy’ (I have simplified) not to be mixed up with another ‘postfeminism’ which defines the idea that the world is no longer binary and that femininity and masculinity are no longer notion that defines individuals.

Where the author claims that those artists are feminist icons even though many may disagree, she defines feminism as powerful girly femininity juxtaposed with toughness and strength, women in charge, and sexually public/open– all circulate under the sign of female empowerment and/or feminism even if they are not universally sanctioned as such by popular opinion. Again the main objective is to observe how feminism is used as tool to hide/forgive racism not whether or not those are ‘good’ or ‘bad’ feminist.

For her the 3rd wave fem. Is defined through four main ideas:

1.       Hyperfeminine

First she has to be ultra-feminine, she likes ‘girly’ stuff (the colour pink, crochet, makeup,..) and there is no shame anymore. It is a reaction to the second wave, where girly was prohibited, anything considered as feminine was forbidden, in order to be taken seriously women had to have manly interest, otherwise they would have been considered weak. One should not have to be masculine in order to be powerful or respected, it is a sort o reappropriation of their feminity, and the three artist have all jungled between feminine attire and masculine, Fergie was even compared to a tomboy and Gaga did a photoshoot in drag, a critic even said about Gaga ‘her make-up, outfits, hair are all monstrous deformations, for the most part, of the normative idea(l)s of female beauty.”

2.       Kick ass

The comportment has evolved we now seek for strong, ready to fight women. People rejoice in seeing women being violent Uma Thurman, Lara croft… Breaks the narrative of the submissive broken woman. Often seeking revenge film theorist Jacinda Read explain the ‘rape revenge’ narrative, the hero after a rape undergoes a transformation and seeks -a violent- revenge with which she often gets away with, almost any film that shows women beating up and triumphing over men can be read, according to Read, through the rape revenge narrative. Toughness is a characteristic of the new feminist persona, and the use of tough girl images is quite prevalent in the performances of Fergie, Gwen Stefani and Lady Gaga. Through stylistic devices such as “chola” fashion, rap, street style, and the use violence in videos such as Stefani’s “Hollaback Girl” and Fergie’s “London Bridge,” these performers produce an image of toughness. Lady Gaga has also taken up the images of toughness in the prison scenes of her video “Telephone,” through the gun-wielding militarized images in “Alejandro,” and in her biker-gang in “Judas.” More particularly, many of Lady Gaga’s videos represent the feminist revenge narrative, she routinely kills men out of revenge as in “Paparazzi” and “Bad Romance,”

3.       Public sexuality:

Again it is a response two second wave feminism which promoted prudishness, shyness humility, mostly because the main idea at that time was to be liberated from the objectification and sexualisation of women especially in the media, but some went to an extreme of almost ‘anti-sex’ saying that any heterosexual relation presents gender inequality, where male domination takes its origin. Third wave still acknowledges that objectification but refuses to be censured and on the contrary take possession of their sexuality and exposes it, celebrating pleasures, and also reclaiming its power. Reclamation of the words ‘slut’ and ‘whore’ (riot Grrls’). Rejection of paternalism “What women need from feminism, according to Baumgardner and Richards, is not protection “from men or porn” but rather to be given the “same protections men enjoy in the eyes of the law.””. Women ought to be free and not judged or punished for their sexuality. Lady Gaga also centres sexuality in her videos and performances, and erotic clothing, dance, and displays. Fergie was dismissed by feminist music critic Ann Powers writes: “As humps-baring Fergie … proves, women also seem more willing than ever to participate in their own objectification.”  fans have defended Fergie’s “look-at-me” sexuality as self-aware, it’s a way of reclaiming their body and sexuality. But again the debate is still going one on that matter and there is are complex and fine lines between slut-shaming, being sexy/sexually active, being objectified, self-respect -and the judgement other have when they use that word-, and who is to say what is right or wrong, there is no norm, no law and what may be right for one may not be for another.

4.       Drive for power:

Role of leadership, especially in male dominated environment. They are figure of ambition, authority and leadership. Closely linked to toughness, they have the ability to project authority. They are model, they encourage women to succeed in the current system so that later they can take power in politics and business for an equal pay. Those three artists are really successful, both Fergie and Gwen were the only girl in a boy band, and both had successful solo careers. Also, Gwen Stefani has her own clothing line L.A.M.B.

To summarise the third wave icon is sexy and feminine, yet tough and powerful.

[gunilsguns]

Song challenge pt. 3

21. A song from your childhood

"Pay my respects to grace and virtue

Send my condolences to good

Give my regards to soul and romance

They always did the best they could

And so long to devotion

You taught me everything I know

Wave goodbye

Wish me well

You got to let me go"

22. A song with a long title

"Dead bull with the life from the low

I'll be massive conquistador

Give me soul and show me the door

Metal heavy, soft at the core

Gimme toro, gimme some more"

23. A song in a different language

"I’m one half sane, one half insane

I’m four sides sane, one side insane

Everybody is sane, only I am insane

Only I am insane, only I am insane"

24. A song that someone showed you

"The blood, the blood, the blood of the lamb

It's worth 2 lions, but here I am

And I slept in last night's clothes and tomorrows dreams

But they are not quite what they seem"

25. A song you know all the words to

"I chime in with a

"Haven't you people ever heard of closing the goddamn door?"

No, it's much better to face these kinds of things

With a sense of poise and rationality"

26. A song you used to hate but love now

"Look to the stars

Let hope burn in your eyes

And we'll love

And we'll hope

And we'll die

All to no avail"

27. A song that reminds you of somebody

"From every hangover my head feels

To every ex I didn't treat right

To every Monday I called in sick

To every argument I let slide

Christ, I ain't ever going back to thinking straight twice

Twice, it brung me down but it's the last time"

28. A song from a movie soundtrack

"Cinderella, she seem so easy

"Well it takes one to know one," she smiles

And she puts her hands in her back pockets

Oh Bette Davis style

And now here comes Romeo, moaning

"You Belong to Me I Believe"

And someone says, "You're in the wrong place, my friend

You better leave""

29. A song you have/want to download

"When did your list replace the twist and turn

Like a fist replaced the kiss?

Don't concern us with your bollocks, I don't want your prayer

Save it for the morning after"

30. A song you discovered this month

"Make a wish and I'll count to three

Press the button and we'll both be happy

Sending signals is a dirty trick

I get my love in a digital package"

[mrslackles]

Yes, thank you. I read the article too fast & saw the mention of Turner & assumed she was FBI. I like Lauren Lapkus in everything I’ve seen her in, so there’s that. But the way this show is squandering the absolutely iconic Ione Skye is, dare I say, criminal. So I’m skeptical. I kinda wish Turner were still around now, though, because I bet there’s SS/FBI friction in general. And then their different approaches would be neat tension to explore.

Me too, trust me! I was so excited about Rob Heaps too because of how amazing he was in Imposters* -- it was the perfect show to marry with this one; I had so many cool predictions of who he’d be and how he’d be involved in the crime of it all... And then they gave him a hapless therapist role. 

I really didn’t enjoy Turner and honestly I still think the way 3x01 went established such an amazing tone for the season and made it seem like Rio operates on a far bigger scale than the girls could ever imagine (both of which it then immediately squandered), but I do also find myself missing him at times.

I can’t explain exactly why, but a part of it is having a nemesis Beth respected. She has no respect for Rio, no matter how much he escalates things, and it shows. (He killed Lucy right in front of her eyes -- someone Ruby keeps referring to as a little girl -- and with FOUR CHILDREN she thinks it’s a good idea to constantly try and have him killed??) So apart from my personal distaste for where they’re taking Rio this season, it also just falls flat to me in terms of him being the main antagonist. 

But I am also very sceptical.

* Also, I highly highly recommend watching Imposters. It’s only two seasons, but it’s so worth it. It’s incredibly funny plus crime (and the characters being notably bad or good at it and progressing) plus found family plus so many excellent character beats. Also it has Uma Thurman as a hitman who breaks a man’s elbow in her first scene. Truly, it’s fantastic.