#i probably will be on here periodically tbh because i have no self control

[givemewallywestorgivemedeath]

I've seen a few people talking about how Barry and Wally's parent/child relationship now that they're both adults is unhealthily codependent and that Barry's the cause of Wally's daddy issues and need for therapy, and Wally being better than him now gave Barry an inferiority complex and suicidal tendencies. Can we get some panels showing this side of their relationship?

No? Because the panels don't exist.

There isn't anything 'unhealthily codependent' about their relationship? Codependency is when people in a relationship are so dependent that they struggle to make decisions without input, don't consider their own wants or needs, and try to control the other person's life. Codependency usually involves living together/near constant contact and communication.

And none of that is even remotely applicable to Barry and Wally. At any point in their lives.

Let's be real here, Barry gave Wally more freedom as a child than literally any other mentor. Barry's whole mentor philosophy was letting Wally forge his own path and giving advice when Wally asked for it. Wally did his own nightly patrol. Wally did his own missions. Wally fought his own battles.

And when he asked for help? Barry was there in a heartbeat.

What that does is foster independent thinking and self-sufficiency. Wally was allowed to become his own hero in a controlled environment. If things ever got really bad then Barry would be there, but for the most part Barry was just moral support.

And Barry died when Wally was 19. Wally did the majority of his Flash career without Barry. Honestly, if Barry hadn't given Wally the tools and opportunities to build such a strong foundation as a kid, then I don't think Wally would have survived long as the Flash. It's a testament to Barry's mentorship that a 19 year old kid could step into the shoes of an experienced hero and uphold that legacy without stumbling.

And even in current comics, with Barry and Wally both back and interacting, there isn't any codependency. Like. At all. They both have their own separate lives. Being family and doing family bonding activities and meeting up on the job isn't codependency, that's kinda just how healthy relationships work? You spend time together.

Also not really sure why it'd be fine when Wally was a kid but weird now that he's an adult? People don't just cut contact with their parents and older relatives when they hit 18. That's... not a thing. "Sorry, mom and dad. I love you but I'm an adult now so I can never see you again or it'd be weird. Goodbye forever."

As for Wally's daddy issues, why the fuck would anyone but Rudy be to blame for that? The man abused his son, tried to murder his mother, tried to sell him to a cult, hired assassins to beat and kidnap him, started a child labor camp with landmines, ect, ect. Barry actually being a father figure in his life helped fix the issues that Rudy created.

Also also. Barry is nothing but thrilled about what Wally has accomplished in life. Because he's a proud father.

There was a brief period of time where Eobard Thawne brainwashed Barry and Wally to make them fight all the time. People sometimes point to that and say that their relationship has issues. But they were actively brainwashed?? And not in their right state of mind because Thawne wanted them at each other's throats. And they immediately apologized to each other when they broke free. So. Not really a great argument tbh.

But yeah, TLDR: Wally does need therapy but not because of Barry and Barry does have suicidal tendencies but not because of Wally. Their relationship is only 'unhealthily codependent' if you don't know what those two words mean and made up new definitions for them. They are probably the most normal, healthy and successful mentor/mentee relationship in all of comics.

[therhythmafterthesummer]

Sliding into your ask again. I KNEW CHRIS WAS DEMI!!! I swear because you're demi Wereroomies are just... *sighs, can't choose the right words* one of THE series for me.

So-so-so-so could you please tell me about Chris' journey as demi? How he figured out, his past relationships etc. Anything you'd like to share 😉

If Pretty's gonna be demi too, I'm gonna scream!!!

P.S. I haven't seen your beautiful cat for a long time, how's kitty doing?)

HAVE A NICE WEEKEND!! it's been a rough week for me

If

aww, i'm really flattered🥺 idk it makes me really happy to see so much acceptance towards the ace spectrum in general hahah and to enjoy the series because of it???? warms my heart.

it's been a rough week for me, too, and somehow tonight just got even worse dsfhsjdkhf but i'll live. i hope you get some time to rest and recharge, bb.

here's a pic of Raven from today!! she's doing fine. cute as ever.

now, for the juicy question.... i'll leave my answer under the cut cuz it's gonna be long.

first, i'm gonna say that, just like it happened with his thing for thighs, i hadn't realised i had made him demi until fairly recently while i was writing a drabble... i tend to just write whatever comes to mind and then it's like i have a revelation afterwards lol. so after i wrote a particular phrase i was like "wait a damn minute..." (i'll leave the phrase at the end for those that are curious), and i started back tracking to Chris' instalments and realised i had been writing him this way for a long time now (not to say from the very beginning).

with that being said, i am currently not 100% sure if Chris as a character is aware that he's demi or not. just because i haven't decided which option i want most lol idk if i want him to already know before meeting pretty mum, or if i want him to go through that journey of finding the label for him with her... regardless, the way he handles his romantic/sexual feelings has always been... like demisexuals do, you know?

i think Chris Wereroomies might've had two (max three) partners in the past, and i'm sure they were all either friends or someone he met through friends that he ended up hitting things off with fairly well. he never understood how Changbin was able to go sleeping around with random people, because, for him, what was the point of sex if it wasn't to enjoy a good time with a specific someone? it genuinely felt like a ginormous waste of time and energy otherwise.

Chris is an alpha, yes. which makes it so he probably has a high sex drive in general, but that sex drive only ever exists when there is already an important person in his life. that's why we've read his inner voice talk about having "a lot of self-control" and why he was able to spend ruts on his own. his already existing predisposition to not feeling sexual attraction from the get-go probably made it so his cravings during his rut were nothing but the very minimum his wolf had, so even if he was frustrated it was still manageable.

while i'm writing this, i'm wondering if he ever spent his rut with anyone at all... if his previous relationships lasted enough for that to be a possibility.... i'll have to think more on this one tbh lol

but anyway... being demi is also probably one of the reasons why he'd been told he was "too intense" in the past. it's very likely that in his previous relationships he had developed these feelings that the other person simply didn't have or didn't feel as strongly, so of course they thought he was intense. what i suppose happened was that his high sex drive and his predisposition to being a hopeless romantic was somewhat contained when he was going through periods of time without feeling attraction towards someone, but then he did meet someone he was attracted to and he suddenly had all these needs that were just too much to contain.

then pretty mum came along...

in Alpha Dog, the narration tells us:

"Chris often prided himself on being a rational being, with a lot of self-control even for someone with a condition just like his, but as soon as he took in the shape of your body, it was almost as if he could feel his human mind short circuit and hear his inner wolf howling in desire.

He’d never been much of having a ‘type’ when it came to his partners, at least not physically. Sure, there were certain attributes he preferred, but in the grand scheme of things he’d fancied people with all different types of looks. That day, though, as he struggled to make coherent sentences and act normal while he showed you the place, Chris realised–quite puzzled, he might add–that maybe he did have a type, and maybe that type was you."

the day he met our dearest pack mum was the first time he ever felt any sort of sexual attraction for a stranger.

this is obviously due to his supernatural bond with her (aka due to him imprinting. yes, he had imprinted then, he just didn't know), but at the time he was just confused as hell because he'd never gone through anything similar. i'm sure that many times in the past he'd seen people with similar body types to pretty mum's and he was like "ohh, that's attractive", but recognising someone as attractive doesn't necessarily mean he wanted to fuck them (if you're demi, you know how this feels like...). so of course he thought pretty was attractive, but to the point of wanting to touch her all over??? after hardly saying more than twenty words to each other??? nothing he'd ever felt before, tbh.

essentially, that day he met pretty those very minimal wolf cravings he had turned up a notch, but it wasn't until he actually got to know her that it all started escalating. his inner wolf's cravings, his human needs, it all started piling up inside of him once he started developing that personal connection with her... which is why the first rut he went into after she moved in was so unbearable. he no longer had minimal urges, he was full on horny for this woman and he could hardly cope.

this is so long, my god hahahah but those are the thoughts i have so far related to Chris Wereroomies being demi. hope this answer is satisfactory !

i still need to think more about pretty mum and her past in order to determine if she's demi or not... but that's something for another day hahahah

so, finally, if you're curious, the phrase i wrote that made me have this entire epiphany of demisexual werewolf chris was this:

"When it came to romantic partners, he never cared about looks or gender or designations. All he cared about was finding a connection. And, in a more shallow approach, about big juicy thighs he could hold onto… But even then, the physical aspect of it would never stop him from pursuing someone (...)"

thank you for this question, bb! it took me all day to answer, but i enjoyed thinking about it. hope it's coherent enough hahaha

[thedreadvampy]

I'm having a kind of metamorphosis time I think. not as big as the one I had a few years ago when I started seeking help but it's a bit of a seismic shift nonetheless, I'm in the middle of readjusting how I think about myself maybe.

which is probably good, I think that should happen every 5 years or so. but you know. there's some earthquakes and broken dishes involved.

what's changing? not sure I could name it, necessarily. tbh a lot of it has to do with confidence and self-respect. I think I am understanding myself differently as a result of the last year or so of changes and if I'm honest generally I like the person I see myself as a lot more. or I see myself as a person I like a lot more. one or both of those.

but it's a change and change is messy and not easy.

I think, much like back in 2015-17 I was coming to grips with the idea that I'd been physically harmed a lot. in 2023 I'm coming to grips with the idea that there's long term emotional consequences to a lot of stuff that I can now recognise wasn't my fault.

like I'm getting to a place where I can look at how I've been treated and instead of saying 'pathetic that I couldn't cope with this' or 'I caused this by insufficiently managing the situation' I can just be. upset and angry that so many people have thought that was an ok way to behave towards me.

which like. that legitimately Is Really Hard. it's been a lot easier to make excuses for people and downplay this shit because that makes it feel controllable and explainable but honestly this just has been out of my control a lot of the time.

and it's stuff like. yeah it's a problem if my partner's begging me in tears to tell them what's wrong and I just can't. but on the other hand if I've already told them multiple times that I've recently been raped and what the circumstances that trigger me are, then it doesn't take a huge amount of care and emotional intelligence to reach out past that inability to talk. and if nobody does that, that's not on me. (to use one example from several years ago)

I think that something my loved ones often find really exhausting and frustrating about me is that I have been operating on the Getting On With It mode for at least 20+ years, which is to say while stuff's happening I'm like NO TIME TO HAVE FEELINGS RIGHT NOW I HAVE SHIT TO DO and then after the fact I'm like well. dealt with that. nothing more to be done on that really. moving on.

and then periodically I have a big crack up and get big time triggered and start shutting down and blowing up and acting weird and the whole time I'm like haha that's weird what's that about? silly me!

now that's not a great way to do emotional communication, I think. but it's also a hard habit to break. I legit have spent at least since early primary working on this self-parenting thing where I don't so much experience feelings directly as look after them as if they're a toddler having a meltdown. so a) I honestly am just guessing most of the time about what the feelings actually are beyond 😭 or 🤬 and b) it's SO HARD to turn off the part of me that's like HEY LET'S WRAP THIS UP. SHHHH YOU'RE FINE SHHHHHHHH WE HAVE TO DO PRODUCTIVE THINGS. IF YOU SHUT UP AND LET ME FINISH THIS EMAIL YOU CAN HAVE A SWEETY.

but you know. I'm working on that. it's a new thing. but it's not Fucking Easy and there's a lot of feelings back here. who knows what happens when they get off the leash? not me! bc I physically can't let them off the leash!!!!

[nakedbibi333]

💭 OKAY so this is about my personal manifestation journey and why I left for so long soo if you don't care about that you can keep scrolling :)

So as you may know, I may give advice here on Tumblr about manifestation, but I am still a learner myself and I’m still working on my own loa journey. I started learning about manifestation about 2 1/2 years ago, but I only started learning about the law of assumption in the middle of last year (during the worst period of my life). So, I’ve been learning and manifesting since then.

This year in about late January to February I took a break from Tumblr but also manifestation in general. I hadn’t consciously manifested anything in about a month and I didn’t feel motivated to, anyway. I also felt like if I wasn’t consistently working on my manifestation skills that I wasn’t worthy of posting on this blog, because so many other blogs always talk about their successes so often.

Tbh, since all my life I just manifested without doing anything it’s been a struggle to use methods in my practice (meaning I had no idea why the manifestations worked, it just did, so it didn't help manifest specific things, if that makes sense?). I struggled with that for a while and this year was not good, probably because I stayed away from manifestation for so long and spiraled in my negativity.

So, before I came back, because of a situation I was in, I managed to start scripting and visualizing again, which helped me get back into my rhythm and also it got me another success. I was reminded of how satisfying and fun it is to be able to manifest whatever you want into your life.

Either way, now I’ve come back to it and I’m working on my self-concept again and it’s been something. I have been noticing how BADLY I'd been speaking to myself, about others, and about my life. Circumstances got to me so easily and I gave SO much power to the 3D this year. But that’s changing now that I’m coming back to the loa. I basically have to start all over again because of how much I fell off lol. I'm working on taking control back of my life and manifesting better circumstances around me. I’m also looking into the world of shifting because it’s just so interesting and fascinating to me, so I’d like to try that as well.

All I want to say from this is, it’s okay to waver, it’s okay to take a break, and it’s okay to struggle. Life happens and we’re all human. But I’m proud of myself for not letting myself stay in that negative state. I’m proud of myself for moving forward and trying again. I never lost my belief in the law, I just kind of left it behind for no particular reason. Maybe I was too overwhelmed to even try to use it. That’s in the past now, so I’m going to move forward with a more positive and strong mindset!

[traumasurvivorshelpingsurvivors]

hi, please call me the net anon. i understand there are way more important asks for people who are in need of more desperate advice but i'd like for this to be answered quickly if possible, i need some advice. i'm not sure what tw's to put here, but just some trauma talk, self doubt, mention of cyberbullying and anxiety over the internet. so, i have this online friend i've known since probably 2-3 years. they weren't very close to me in the start, but eventually there were quite a few conversations and we started talking more often. we became close enough for me to share multiple of my problems at home, my trauma, and so on to him. he did the same but not on my level, because i was just happy to have someone to listen to. now, i know i'm going to sound rude but i did not intend to get so close to him. he's not exactly the best person to other people i know on the net community, and has apparently cyber-bullied another online friend of mine, which he excused by 'she's a horrible person too'. but otherwise, he's a very kind, understanding and genuine friend. he passed the stage of best friends, but i can't say i feel the same about him and i don't have the heart to tell him. so now we just call each other 'best friends'. i don't want him to feel like he was just that friend who was made for listening to problems and then never talked to ever again. i personally really like to keep a divide for irl and social media. it helps me feel some sense of control when i don't find myself disappearing off the net bc its overwhelming every week. i've always felt depressed & anxious while being on social media and try my best to limit it. and for the past 3 years, i've kept my face completely secretive. we occasionally send pics of our lives, where we go, and although i've seen his face which he has willingly shown me i cannot get myself to do this. he brought this up a few times and i have reiterated my boundary to him. he does not bring it up again. but it was talked about again recently, persistently this time, and he expresses how he feels at not knowing how his best friend of 3 years looks. he says that sending goofy funny pics to each other should improve my mental health if anything, which in theory, isn't wrong, but not my cup of tea. i get his frustration, and understand his point. but i don't know how to feel about it. if i'm truthful, and harsh, he's an online best friend to me. i don't feel comfy sharing my face. he's mentioned feeling like a mere online best friend, which tbh, he is to me. i just can't tell him that. i mentioned the boundary i keep again, and he said that i don't need that boundary. i'm torn on how to feel about that, bc although i can get how my 'boundary' is a weird concept to him, it's a way for me to maintain my health. how do i go about this? i feel like i'm honestly a bad person for all of this, considering him a mere 'online' person after how patient he has been with me ( even when i disappeared for long periods, once even almost a year, he still didn't give up on me ). but i feel pressured into showing my face and it doesn't feel right to me. i'm past the phase where i needed social media to cope with my irl situations and the consequences of that have caught up in the form of my internet anxiety. thanks for reading.

Hi anon,

Please know that boundaries don't have to be essential to be valid. It's perfectly fine if you don't feel comfortable showing your face and your reasons are understandable. Although I can understand where he's coming from, he should ultimately respect your boundaries. You don't have to show your face if you don't want to.

It sounds like you've already explained and asserted your boundary. If he continues to push it, it's worth re-evaluating your friendship. I hope I could help and please let us know if you need anything.

-Bun

[lightprkdraws]

How about talking about Valentine?

Okok I can do that! She started off as an OC-insert (not really a self insert) for the world of Shiki, although nowadays I prefer to think of her in my own universe.

Valentine is a vampire, she feeds from humans and she doesn't really feel bad about it. She's outgoing and playful, but she's also harsh and guarded, but she doesn't really show those parts of her. She travels from one place to another so that her immortality won't be discovered by humans. Also, she has seen at some point someone close to her die, and she was unable to protect them. Because of the frequent travelling, and the fact that she hasn't found any immortal companions to travel with for long periods of time, she is actually quite lonely. That is until she coincidentally meets Maira! I won't go into detail about Maira here, but she's a ghost, and Valentine becomes her protector/mentor. She appreciates having her company, and she likes being relied on. She also becomes fond of Maira after a while of the two travelling together.

She's probably from France, because I remember looking up french names for her. I don't know how I landed on Valentine, but I had gone through at least one other name before it.

I can't rememeber what time period she lived in exactly, possibly the 16th or 17th century. (Because I was copying Shiki) she had died after a vampire drank from her, possibly in the span of several days, and her death was considered a tragic death due to illness. I haven't really thought of her personality before she was turned, although I image it couldn't have been completely different to her post-death one.

She doesn't age, she's immortal to some forms of death, although fire and a steak through the heart will work. She can mesmerise people in order to be able to drink from them, and she can control their actions after she has drank from them (again, bc I was copying Shiki XD). I don't think she's particularly strong, but maybe only a bit more than average?

I want to say that she can die from exposure to sunlight, but in the past I've been inconsistent with that... Maybe there are methods through modern medicine that allow her to be able to go in the sun for brief periods of time? Either way, she doesn't go out in the sun much, and if she does, she tries to cover up as much as possible. This is where big fancy hats come in handy!

She was from wealthy family, so she is used to luxury. She likes over the top expensive outfits and she keeps up with fashion trends. She's pretty vain tbh. Despite being completely cut-off from her family after her death & revival, she's still rich because vampire (don't think about it XD)

I haven't made a playlist for her, but her vibes would probably something like Hiasobi and Watashi no Koi wa Hellfire, although I also like a more gothic theme for her as well, like Illuminati.

She's honestly not an original concept for a character but... Idk, I still have a soft spot for her. And I do like to think of her as a complicated character who has multiple sides to her.

AND FINALLY, here's an old sketch of Valentine with Maira <3

[shxrp-teeth-after-dark]

INTIMACY  &  RELATIONSHIP  PREFERENCES  GUIDE (  as always,  repost don’t reblog  )

* 𝐀𝐁𝐑𝐀𝐇𝐀𝐌 𝐖𝐎𝐎𝐃𝐇𝐔𝐋𝐋 (cabbxges-and-kings)

ROMANTIC ORIENTATION:  biromantic.

SEXUAL ORIENTATION:   bisexual.

SEXUAL ROLES:   dominant. submissive.  versatile.  

PENETRATIVE PREFERENCES:  oh god idk, the most he’ll probably go is a.nal for m/m stuff

POSITIONS AS A TOP:  being ridden.  missionary.  lotus.  doggy.  flatiron.  legs on shoulders.  standing up.  standing while partner sits on surface.  spooning.  side by side.

POSITIONS AS A BOTTOM: riding.  missionary.  lotus.  doggy.  flatiron.  legs on shoulders. standing up.  sitting on surface. spooning.  side by side.  

SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS: monogamous.  polyamorous.  open.  swinging.  hook-ups (though very, very rare),  platonic (also very rare for this).

ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIPS:  monogamous. polyamorous.  open.  casual. committed.  

RELATIONSHIP ROLES: dominant.  submissive. equal.  nurturing. being nurtured. monetary provider.  monetarily dependent. shared monetary burden. independent monetary responsibility. manages household. shares household management. prefers independent living spaces.  likes having household managed by partner.

THOUGHTS ON MARRIAGE: This is kind of difficult because Abe is very marriage oriented, but not in the circumstances of t.urn. He would’ve married Anna in a heartbeat if the circumstances aligned right and his own marriage is strained because of his lack of chemistry with Mary. He is still pursuing Anna at this time. I also see Abe not being overly concerned about marriage, like when he was younger if Anna wasn’t in the picture. But I think if Abe loves someone, he definitely wants to marry them. 

DOES YOUR MUSE GET JEALOUS/POSSESSIVE?: Yes, but not in the insecure sort of way. Abe can definitely get possessive and jealous if he feels like someone else is flirting or interested in his partner. He’s the kind of guy who might start a fight or wrap his arm around his partner, it depends on his mood and who he’s around. He might tell them to back off at first in a calm manner (for Abe), but he can get into jealous/possessive s.ex if his partner kinda eggs him on for it. Oh, he’s also into s.ex if an argument ensues to get rid of the tension.

DOES YOUR MUSE LIKE POSSESSIVE PARTNERS?: Not really? Abe kinda prefers to be the one to get possessive, and he doesn’t like it when someone tries to get in between his activities or control that part of his life. At first, he might tease his partner with the idea that their jealous to get something suggestive going, but other than that, he’s not into that kind of behavior. Abe, too, doesn’t feel like he needs anyone protecting him and he can defend himself just fine.

DO THEY LIKE DOM/SUB ROLES IN ALL ASPECTS OF RELATIONSHIPS? ( i.e. dom’s responsibility both sexually and in life is to take care of the sub and look after them. sometimes utilizing sexual and nonsexual rewards/punishments to incentivize them to carry out self care or other responsibilities ): He would pass on this tbh. Abe isn’t really into bd.sm as a whole anyway, so he wouldn’t like this type of behavior in a relationship. If he’s with a woman, he has the traditional mindset in mind that’s ingrained in the time period he’s in, so unless just male and female gender standards in a relationship, he’s not into the dom/sub stuff. He only likes to be the dom in a sense of figuring out how the s.ex is going to go, he likes the idea of that and not the entirety of bd.sm.

WHAT DOES AFTERCARE LOOK LIKE TO THEM?: This sounds bad, but I don’t really see Abe doing aftercare? He does, I guess, in a way, but with his job as a spy and if he’s in an affair scenario, he needs to go back home and back to his duties as quickly as possible. Usually, he always has something else going on, so he needs to leave as quickly as he can get his clothes on. But sometimes, he’ll stick around and lay within the afterglow. He likes small chatter here and there, a playful energy, but he mostly likes the silence of it all. The coming down after his high. I don’t think Abe gets many “quiet” moments where he doesn’t have something on his mind.

WHAT ARE WAYS THEY PREFER TO BUILD EMOTIONAL INTIMACY?: This is a hard question to answer because a lot of Abe’s important dynamics are already fleshed out in the show, so we don’t really see that building of dynamics (other than him and Townsend, but they are pretty strained in the entire show). For Abe, I think paying attention to what he says, remembering them, seeking him out, making him feel included helps. I think he’s used to being overshadowed by his brother and everyone else, Praise and playful banter also works to building chemistry. 

[wlwcarries]

some final points

i don’t want anything i’ve said to get misinterpreted, so this is just one last post to clear some things up. 

1. i don’t think charlie is a predator, or grooming anybody or anything like that at all. i don’t think he had bad intentions, he’s just stupid and excited about his fanbase. he shouldn’t have participated in the chat and sent those messages, but i’m not trying to say he’s a disgusting and terrible person either. we just need to hold him accountable.

2. please, please don’t cancel charlie. i don’t know if that’s what twitter is trying to do right now or not, but it won’t be productive at all. if people are trying to cancel him, then they’re missing the point entirely. i don’t want to get him fired or ruin his reputation or anything like that, rather i feel that he needs to be held accountable and establish boundaries with his fans so he can continue interacting with them but in a healthy way. 

3. this is also not me trying to defend him. it’s unacceptable, and he has a responsibility to do better. i’m not going to rehash all the reasons why it’s not okay, because i’ve gone through all that in my previous posts, but we have to strike a constructive balance when we’re talking about this. neither charlie nor the people in the chat deserve hate, please be respectful.

4. if you’ve sent me a message and i sent you something, please do not share or post it anywhere. there is a reason i refused to share my information publicly, and i have chosen to trust that everyone who has messaged me won’t do so either. please don’t break that trust.

all i wanted was to add some clarity to the situation and to get the truth out there, and i hope that i’ve succeeded in doing so.

i hope i can get back to regularly scheduled programming soon--lighthearted, fun, and overall positive posts about our favorite wicked beauty and her ghost himbos! we should absolutely continue to talk about this and not just sweep it under the rug in two days, but i feel i’ve said my piece for now. 

i’m going to be taking a small break for a few days, just because everything has been really intense lately and i encourage anyone who’s been feeling overwhelmed to do the same. my ask box and dms are always open, but i’m really sorry if i haven’t gotten the chance to respond to anyone yet. 

thank you guys so, so much for the support and kind messages i’ve received--i’m so grateful to all of you, you have no idea. sending love, ani 💕

[thatjadedhotmess]

vampire hcs

pairings: short anemo boiz @ kazuha, xiao, venti x gn!reader

warnings⚠️: mentions of blood and venti being drunk but otherwise I don't think there's anything else

note: super impromptu but I hope you enjoy it !! TvT

kaedehara kazuha (楓原万葉)

☁︎︎ I feel like he's fangs would be on the shorter side. like if xiao/thoma/eula had long fangs. Kazuha’s would be half or 3/4 of theirs.

☁︎︎ ok but not to be mistaken, he's fangs are sharp as fuck and they get their job done a little too well sometimes

☁︎︎ nics the inside of his lips bc sometimes his fangs are too sharp

☁︎︎ he obv amazingly good at literature and poetry like its only obvious with him 

☁︎︎ if he's really in need of blood, he knows he can rely on you since you know about his true identity 

☁︎︎ little vampire kazuha has probably attempted to bite into a raw fish because he thought that they would bleed like other animals

☁︎︎ yeah no he just got food poisoning instead and ended vomiting for a few days but here he is TvT

☁︎︎ is pretty good at controlling his urges and satisfies craving with grilled fish 🐟

☁︎︎ you can find kazuha at quiet libraries where he spends time writing poetry or looking for new books to read

☁︎︎ tbh I feel like if he were asking for blood he would be very polite about it but at the same time also just super straightforward 

"hey sorry y/n, would be ok if I had some blood please?"

☁︎︎ seriously tho who are you to deny precious him of blood when he doesn't ask you about it that often

++ he's also so nice and would literally cook for you after he's done >:3

☁︎︎ has sharp thin fangs, kinda similar to that of a snake (bc he's an adepti and stuff yk so;~;)

xiao (魈)

☁︎︎ messy eater ¬‿¬ but does clean bites which means easier and faster recovery periods

☁︎︎ but he does clean up after himself ok he's just a gentleman like that

☁︎︎ I can imagine him zooming around with his e and just yeahh;-;;

☁︎︎ knowing that he also suffers from karmic debt I feel like he would be in pain if he doesn't feed. like if a normal vampire just felt an itch behind their fangs and faced some urges, xiao would probably be on a whole different level. I'm talking body aches and heavy breathing because he's actually in pain (poor baby TT)

☁︎︎ HE WOULD STUTTER TO ASK IF YOU COULD GIVE HIM SOME OF UR BLOOD

"h-hey y/n, would you uhh you know uhhh- could I have some blood please?"

venti (溫迪)

☁︎︎ he has no self control. period.

☁︎︎ is constantly smiling at people and showing off his fangs

☁︎︎ please do the man a favour and put him out of his suffering we love him TvT

☁︎︎ he does have very cute fangs tho:0

☁︎︎ he's been arrested for harassment (xiao bailed him out)

☁︎︎ I'd imagine they be a little larger and wider than kazuha's but slightly smaller than xiao's

☁︎︎ if he's not out hunting for prey he's at the tavern drinking copious amounts of wine and drunk singing his heart out at the Dawn Winery 

☁︎︎ messy eater 2.0 but his bites aren't as clean as xiao's so they'll probably take slightly longer to heal and stuff

☁︎︎ once during halloween, venti dressed up as dracula and went around mondstadt in a vampire costume and a really badly done vampire makeup look that he got you to help him do (you only did it bc he was looking cute. you also told him he couldn't look in the mirror until the end of the night >:D )

☁︎︎ seriously you can imagine the kids giggling at him as he walked down the streets of mondstadt and the adults at the tavern laughing at his face 

☁︎︎ *cue drunk kaeya and rosaria smacking their hands and heads on the table while laughing their ass off because of his 'smoky eyes'

☁︎︎ safe to say that venti will find a way to get back at you sometime in the future 

[sunshinejins]

“I want to ruin our friendship” with Georgebur, I like this ship!

hi anon! sorry for the wait, unfortunately apparently i need to sleep :// rude of my body tbh. but here's your lil fic! idk why i keep going above and beyond my self imposed word count limit for georgebur but i guess i just have to deal with it!

Romantic epiphanies aren’t supposed to happen while a Bo Burnham special from 2014 plays in the background of a hastily-planned dinner party of macaroni and cheese and Pepsi. They’re supposed to happen in the middle of a forest with stars sparkling or at a school dance with peach and sky blue lights glimmering over hair sprayed curls. George isn’t supposed to realize he’s in love with one of his closest friends while he’s minutes deep into a recreation of “Suck My Dick” in an Australian accent, but it seems that when it comes to Wilbur that anything is possible.

“Wilbur, seriously, stop!” George gasps out in between peals of laughter that sting the back of his throat. His friend looks back at him goofily, tongue peeking out from his teeth and cheeky grin. He looks alive, bright, filled with the things people talk about when they’re falling in love. George nearly hates how at ease he feels under the coffee gaze of Wilbur’s eyes.

“What, George? You don’t like my serenade?” Wilbur’s voice is teasing, it always is. They’re always stuck in moments like this together; flirting and poking into the soft spaces between each other’s ribs. They’re looking to get a rise out of each other past sugared giggles and fond gazes. It’s always a game they play: even when they’re alone.

“Save your serenades for the next girl you write songs about,” George says back, feeling the grit of the manufactured playfulness against his tongue, “And maybe don’t ask them to suck your dick in the meantime.”

“Oh I’d never ask them for that, Gog,” George feels like he could turn to flames under the heat of Wilbur’s gaze, the drag of his friend’s eyes up and down the folds of his hoodie, “That’s reserved for you.” And that’s normal for them. It is, despite every fibre in George’s body screaming that Wilbur’s just having fun. He’s so used to the playful flirting, the jabs about being boyfriend material, the way Wilbur’s face seems to soften when he steps in the room.

The ache in his chest once hidden by denial, the blueberry bruise made from soft words and even softer smiles, has started to smart.

“Imagine if one day you asked me to suck your dick and I just said yes?” George quips, ignoring the pull, the squeeze, the ache of his jokes. Wilbur raises an eyebrow, careful, controlled. Twists of curls fall into his gaze.

“Well would you?” George doesn’t know if they’re joking anymore.

“Well probably not on the first date. I’m a gentleman after all, Wil.” Wilbur snorts, leaning closer. Their knees touch on the couch and George tries his hardest not to hold his breath.

“Not that it matters though, really,” he continues, ignoring the way Wilbur’s eyes seem to smolder into his jawline, the curve of his throat, “because we don’t want to ruin the friendship.” Wilbur laughs, but it sounds choked, half in pain and half delirious. George lifts his gaze to find Wilbur staring, heart pasted to his sleeve, and starlight dripping from his gaze.

“George. George, George, George, George.” He slips his hand into George’s and he’s never realized exactly how well their palms fit together, “I want to ruin our friendship. So fucking badly.”

George spends a lot of time thinking. Most of the time, really. He’s closed off in more ways than one, and he spends large periods of time convincing himself not to wish for things he can’t have.

As Wilbur leans forward to catch George’s lips with his own, as the taste of vanilla and Pepsi and truly abysmal mac and cheese floods George’s tongue-- he thinks maybe this is one wish that he’s allowed to make after all.

[danhoemei]

What do you think of the reconciliation of Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng that is confirmed (post canon) in Lan Wangji's letter?

Tbh I just learnt something new from you anon lmao.

First of all, let's establish the post canon here, as I found that it's from cql. I come from the novel so I had no idea about it.

Although all adaptations spring from the same source, all of them have smaller or bigger differences and divergences. Thus, it's not that easy to say what is "canon" here, e.g. something that happens in the drama doesn't mean that it's canon for the novel as well, and the other way around, and as I've seen so far both are quite different in some aspects, maybe even with a few contradictions.

Another thing is the source of the information. For me the strongest will always be the source material, and additional bits of information from interviews, author's posts etc. can be treated with less weight. I had experiences in other fandoms or media where the author started spewing nonsense out of spite, or literally contradicted what was in the original story, so since then I take additional bits added post-release as a free candy which I can take or not.

Now, coming back to mdzs's adaptations. The manhua and donghua are considerably close to the novel, so I consider the novel as the scroll of truth here. However, when it comes to the drama I kind of think of it as an alternate version with its own rights, and I personally pretty much separate these two. So I'd say that the letter could be treated as canon for cql, but not necessarily for the novel.

So now the question is, do I take this candy? 

Gods in all heavens, heck yes.

Even though I treat all adaptations more or less separate, there are certain parts which I will fiercely headcanon no matter what, in all of them. And one of these things is that yunmeng bros need each other and will gravitate towards each other whether they want it or not. Initially, the main reason could be only jin ling. They love him and care about him, so even if both of them avoided each other they would still have this connection and possibly bump into each other from time to time. Jin ling is the last part of their family who they loved very much, but both of them are also these last bits of it. And it is very clear how strong a family instinct they have. Yunmeng is also wwx's home, where he grew up and what he longed for many times, no matter how much time passed. He would want to come back there from time to time, even if he was thrown away from lotus pier. What about jiang cheng, who threw him out? Even when he shouted at wwx to leave (before the whole golden core revelation), to me it seemed like another thing he spouted in the heat of the moment when his emotions and grievances took reins, as he instantly froze and tried to stop wwx who complied and turned away. So I don't imagine him taking excessive steps to keep wwx away later on, especially after his approach changed quite significantly towards the end, even towards wen ning who he initially hated with every fiber of his being.

And don't get me wrong - I don't see them as sweet bros longing for each other who just need to sit down once and talk and it'll be dandy. They have a ton of issues (mostly on jiang cheng’s side) and unspoken secrets between each other which are not easy to disclose but which hold them back very significantly. Mostly jiang cheng needs to change for this to happen, let his thick as hell walls drop a bit to be less on guard and be more open, and stop constantly hurting others because of his lack of control and toxic coping mechanisms. All that stems from childhood trauma, severe inferiority complex, pathological parents who didn't give him support and love he needed. But not one thing from these justifies his behaviour and how he compensates or lashes out when anything triggers him. Still, in the root of his being is love and care for his family, which could be seen so many times when he made sacrifices in order to protect his loved ones or the whole sect, each time when he's overprotective of jin ling, also each time he helped wwx despite being very vocal about the opposite. He's a contradictory character with tons of issues, which he unfortunately takes out on others.

So their reconciliation in my eyes is not gonna be easy and fast. It's a long and bumpy road, began with a long period of absence from each other's lives, then featuring arguments or clashes, unsaid feelings, secrets, and sacrifices finally spilling (probably in shouting voices and tears). I like to think that with time jiang cheng could mature emotionally and learn to be healthier, not only thanks to being surrounded by people who love him and care for him, but also because maybe those people could open his eyes on his behaviour and teach him a bit. As jin ling grows older, he could get bolder and more confident, and say what he doesn’t like about his uncle’s way of being or treating others. I also like to imagine wwx being more direct in his grievances or reproaches and basically being done with jiang cheng’s bs, because he is now happy, with lwj by his side, and may learn to prioritise himself instead of constantly giving to others and sacrificing himself and his own comfort. If jiang cheng is like that then why should wwx deal with him, if he doesn't feel like it? So what if it's jiang cheng who needs to swallow his pride and finally make the first move, if he actually wants any kind of contact with his brother? Maybe there is a banquet at yunmeng after a long time passes, and he invites wwx. Maybe it doesn’t go so well but later on they still keep bumping into each other and having smaller or bigger conversations, maybe meanwhile jin ling gets involved in something and they collaborate to help him. Bit by bit, I like to think that they both slowly (and finally) learn and understand each other more. And that at some point they'd be like a true and close family, not the one they were - something different, more grown up and mature. That they can travel to each other, have casual conversations and goof around, maybe steal some lotus pods together again, but this time with more mirth and fun than those competitive teenage years way back.

I just... want these two to be happy and there for each other ;__; They lost so much, but they still have each other and I don’t want them to forget that as well, especially when they clearly have so much love and care in them ;___; 

So yes, I am very much into taking the letter as a general canon for me, because this is already what I headcanoned anyway ;d

And just a reminder! This is all my own self indulgent headcanon based on my interpretation of these characters and their relationship (rather from the novel’s perspective, I can’t talk with confidence about the drama). Take what you want from it, or don’t take anything at all. These are stories made for us to enjoy and reflect on, not fight or spread hate over, so go wild with your imagination and headcanons, enjoy and have fun <3

[anonil88]

Malcolm and Marie live blog

I don't usually do liveblogs for movies but yea.

Spoilers ahead!!

I love that its modern timed but very 70s stylized.

A tune indeed.

When you are high and drunk on success and

How the white critic reacts is why I feel like gatekeeping my scripts. At the same time some things I do make are about race or involve.

Marie sitting on the patio smoking is a mood whenever men are talking.

So he's pretentious and unaware.

Whoever chose the music for this, I feel like we would be Spotify mutuals.

Can this nigga stop pacing.

Also can he stop talking;

Marie is so tired and unimpressed.

Also little booties matter and are to be bitten.

Oooo the tension and the jazz.

Title Card over mac and cheese.

Shitty boxes mac and cheese but still mac and cheese.

Tbh i always wonder if spouses/significant others get upset when their spouses don't acknowledge them during speeches.

John sounds so much like his dad but I really hope his acting style differs from his dad a lot.

Guilty confession?

He did not profit off of his partners backstory and then not even acknowledge her.....I.....

If that ever happened to me catch me cussing my partner out during the beginning credits, the end credits, in the car, and at home.

GASLIGHTER!

The way I'm excited for Zendaya to give me some, oooo can she work with Regina King. Please on my knees I pray.

Um no that's not your job to coddle your lead.

He's a dick and the type of dick who makes himself look like a good person around other people.

If Sam Levinson is trying to make his viewers more of misandrist, it's working.

I feel like Marie has her flaws probably a lot of them and we will surely see as this continues, but Malcolm needs to learn how to apologize sincerely.

70s vibes! 70s vibes!

Them kissing and talking about criticism and dreams makes me miss a partner. A partner that I've had and haven't had.

Women really are behind every great man.

Yea sir you fucked a happy moment.

Oh visual allegories for looking in from the outside and cat and mouse chasing and looking from the outside in.

She's saying she doesn't feel noticed by you.

Gas lighter :0 he called her an emotional support dog, bruh.

I would LOVE to co-write or take a writing class held by Sam Levinson. The fights i write are very much in this same realm of reflection and anger and monologue.

Sam.....sam.....are all the sides inside of you doing okay sir?

The ugly side of dating and being in a relationship with someone who struggles with their own demons.

Honestly I could close my eyes and listen to this script being read without seeing these characters visually. Just close my eyes and get a sense of these characters like it was a radio story.

Oh. Oh this is a new wheelhouse of Zendaya acting; a different voice is like breaking through here and her expressions aren't the same we are used to. You can literally hear another character in there....hmm.

Mans is outside really fighting with his invisible demons lmfao.

Selfish ass, how after everything she said you came out of it thinking about your own craft and self instead of how you hurt her.

So she's conditional.

Me: did sam (a white man) say nigga this many times in his script or are the actors adding their own inflections. Not just the lingo used but the topic of race and directing etc. being written by a white writer about black characters is always gonna be a critique when you're writer is a white person.

Alexa play Broken Girls by Saba

He is so hurtful.

A clown nigga a clown look in the fucking mirror you bozo head ass looking like you need some Mehron clown white and a size 16 in clown shoes.

John is doing a really swell performance and reading of these lines.

He is reading her for her insecurities by bringing up his experiences with other women and that.....is yikes.

Arguments can get messy like this in real life but it takes a lot of maturity and control to either not let it get to this point or have a healthy conversation afterwards.

This film is really shot on some very crisp lenses.

They sitting there like 🚬🧍‍♀️🧍‍♂️.

Leftover Mac and Cheese and unfinished cigarettes.

The nyt etc. pay walls are so annoying, but there is a work around look at the articles on incognito or add a period at the end of the url.

He sounds like his daddy so much here, weird, this is the only part I'm eh on the dialogue it feels real but a bit out of pace in how they are bouncing off one another.

Nail scissors? So the end is not the only part he based off of Marie. 🙄

ITS A GOOD REVIEW YOU DINGUS but also its a full review they are going to critique things. She isn't wrong though he did profit off of a woman's story that was not his own to profit from.

Yes Malcolm because unfortunately all marginalized people look through a lens of life that is inherently political because of the world they live in.

He is so mad and upset and had a lot on his chest. But I think he Malcolm and Sam are talking about something thats an issue and a non issue. Being critiqued for you art is hard but also Malcolm is not super self aware. He's like a stand in figure of for example rich depop sellers who wanna be oppressed so badly they yell at others instead of examining their own personal behaviors and ethics.

Oh Marie, when you know the spark is gone and you pick fights because.

He ain't even ask her to read?

One critic I have for most of hollywood actors is they learn their cry and that is it. A change from this is Margot Robbie, I adore her fluctuations of crying being similar but the crying is carried differently for each character. If I had to say any actor that does a cry scene amazing its this woman right here (Amy Adams)

You stole her story from her and gave it away, she has a right to be upset and angry and a rubber band ball of emotions.

Citizen Kane, not the cinematography, but the story is it even that good? (Unpopular opinion but meh, maybe in my rewatch it will be better.)

But that is what people want authenticity and whatever authenticity means to them. What is real for one is false for another.

To be honest look at the criticism of Euphoria, well earned, but a lot of people were like this isn't real even though he literally wrote about his own life. People said it was inauthentic like....wtf.

Ahh the smoking is just a habit, he quit and she didn't.

CAST ZENDAYA IN A HORROR MOVIE PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING. Get Lupita and Zendaya and some more black actors preferably less known ones in a horror movie. One with a interesting script and story, directed by Regina King. Please and thankyou.

I love Marie yep that was amazing.

Behind every great man is a greater woman, one that deserves her credit for how she has stood behind. I wonder the stories of those women, what they have sacrificed or not sacrificed. Their thoughts and feelings when the world is surrounding their partner and views them as a plus one. (I'd write a short script about this but I think do I have the time, can I, or am I equipped ?)

He is a shitty person for bringing up his exes, like she even said I don't wanna know any of that.

Imagine being on anti depressents and rarely having a sex drive and then when you do your partner starts talking about their exes and tearing you apart for all your faults.

I love when you see peaks of Zendaya's cadence in roles.

Tension, what if's and he didn't even bring her up in his speech.

Marie to herself and the audience:

He is not afraid that he will loose her but as my character says in my unreleased story, "i can't wait til you give me a fucking reason to leave your ass." Malcolm expects everything in order for not even doing the bare minimum and she is only asking him for something as simple as consideration. She just wants him to be considerate. He wants to get married and considers their relationship like rolling down a hill at full speed and he cannot apologize, he cannot be considerate, and he cannot admit his wrongs. He can only offer her I love yous that he probably does mean but he does not back up outside of what he's done for her in the past. The past which was more of her experience than his and he sees his part in it as a burden. He doesn't use his own vantage point of the past to further his career he uses her. He does all of these things without a real apology or thankyou because he is not afraid to loose her.

The restrictions of quarantine and the panorama have made Sam's writing very no frills. I wonder how other films from other directors and writers that are filmed in small contained crews like this will be structured. But this was a very good movie gonna add to my letter box 3.3-3.5

Oh shit this is my song,

Ratings/overall thoughts:

Script is like a C+, B- : I could go into my heavier big brain thoughts on the script but I don't feel like it. You catch hints of it above it centers conversation on race and privilege, mainly the writers and questions i have that won't be answered but Sam did make me grow disdain for Malcolm over a short time. Which is sometimes hard to do because im one sympathetic person but the sympathy i have for Malcolm is at 0. Maybe a 2 at some scenes but then it quickly goes back to 0. Some parts of the dialogue miss the mark or hit the are off balanced. While some of it like Malcolm's bathroom speech albeit mean is really strong or their conversation when he comes back from peeing really shines for me.

Performances: B+ to A- because they carried the script further than it could of gone with less talented actors. The monologues do well to showcase their current skill levels which are already high af and leave room for anticipation in where these actors go next.

Zendaya holding a knife: A+ with a gold star. That switch on and off and on is delectable.

John being a shitty boyfriend but following Marie like a lost puppy: B+ with a good job written at the bottom of the paper, Malcolm being nervous a frantic dialed up with more realistic nervousness would have sold me completely on Malcolm's anxious waiting.

Cinematography: A and a participation award.

The mac and cheese: A+ for the easy mac. Wish it was like Annie's or Velveeta.

Cigarettes: Participation award and their picture hung up for student of the month. Why the grill lighter? Everytime Malcolm opened up his mouth Marie was like sparks fly.

The music: A++ with a prize. Whoever picked the music probably makes good Spotify playlists.

[phoenixyfriend]

More "de-aged Taka and T7 end up in the Warring Clans Era as Founders' wards" AU

“That’s a thing?” you ask. The answer is yes.

Uh. Kind of. Deaging Team Seven for the sake of tossing them back in time for a Founder to adopt is pretty common, but I’m trash for Taka so this AU started with me brainstorming the asshole team.

I am falling more and more in love with the idea of Tobirama ending up with custody of Team Taka somehow. He’s a science dad, but like. Marginally more ethical than Orochimaru.

Everyone around them is like "This is a terrible idea and it's all going to end horribly" and he's just like "Ah, these are now my children."

I've read so many "Team Seven time-travels and is de-aged, get adopted by the Founders" or "a Founder time-travels forward and adopts Naruto, subsequently picking up the others" and they're good but I now want the same plot with an even more dysfunctional collection of... eldritch mishaps? The AO3 feel of "I want this fic I just read, again, but a step to the left so it feels fresh and new"

I'm considering the tent of tranquility idea (courtesy of @sloaners​) and I've come to the decision that Tobirama's... probably going to end up with Several Holes in it, and burns, and cuts, because Karin and Suigetsu never stop fighting, and if they're fighting, they're not paying attention to how soon Juugo's going to lose his grip on control.

"Hm. Tobirama?" "Anija." "Where did you get children?" "They showed up." "One of them looks like an Uchiha." "He does." "Two of them are trying to kill each other." "That's normal." "Are the Uchiha going to accuse us of stealing a clan child?" "Probably." "...Tobirama, did you steal these children?" "No."

(It's not kidnapping if they show up and break into your house first.)

(Also none of them are particularly pressed to ditch the Senju and find their clans. Maybe eventually. Not now.)

They’re assholes but Karin is, even at Supposedly Age Three, babbling at Tobirama about proper lab protocol and chemical reactions and isn’t that just the most adorable thing?

Very few people find Karin as adorable as Tobirama does, because Karin knows more ways to kill a person than most adult shinobi, because most adult shinobi don’t know about things like flesh-eating diseases and specialty poisons from the other side of the continent that can only be refined via chemical processes that won’t exist for another three decades.

Juugo is a sweetheart. Best child. Then he loses his mind but it’s okay, Sasuke is there. Do the Senju trust the clearly-Uchiha child to control the much larger five-year-old? No. But they don’t have any better ideas right now, so.

Tobirama: Hm, we should do something about that. Karin: Here’s a list of ideas and things that have already been tried. Tobirama: Thank you, small child. Where did you get this? Karin: ... Tobirama: Fair enough, let’s see what we can do.

Suigetsu is a little terror because not only is he a Massive Jerk but he also has better control over water than most adults. Mostly because he is water. It’s very hard to find him when he’s avoiding chores.

Karin clings to Mito sometimes because Family! and then Hashirama tries to tease Tobirama about being upset that one of his students/children has ditched him. Hashirama ends up moping in a corner because Tobirama snaps at him, unsurprisingly.

IDK if we have like any canon for Touka beyond skill with genjutsu, but going off of the fanon that she used a naginata, I’m going to say that Suigetsu keeps trying to challenge her to Blade Fights and she’s just like Neat, A Tiny Murder Machine.

Sasuke is very quiet for the most part and Dramatically Broods On Rooftops And In Trees and Hashirama is just like YES YOU REMIND ME OF MY BROTHER AND ALSO MY BEST FRIEND and Sasuke hides.

Sasuke does not need another Naruto, thank you.

Sasuke ends up hanging out with Mito, I think? Like yeah, sure, she’s an Uzumaki, but she’s chill and refined and calm and she has really good tea in stock. Sure he has to learn fuuinjutsu to have an excuse to hang out with her, but that’s fine. It’s interesting. Karin does it too, sometimes.

tbh that probably leaves Hashirama to hang out with Juugo? Juugo isn’t great at Excite but he is great at nature so I feel like Hashirama would be stars-in-eyes about Juugo talking to birds the way Hashirama talks to trees, and Hashirama just gets him a chicken coop like HERE. FRIENDS.

But back to the suspected child theft.

Hashirama is like “That is... clearly an Uchiha. They are going to find out, Tobirama! Someone is going to figure out we have--” “Sasuke, show him your other eye. Yeah, the one you cover.” “...” “Okay, go back to playing.” “...Tobirama.” “Yeah?” “That was a Rinnegan.” “You know those rumors that the only way to get a Rinnegan is to mix the Uchiha and Senju bloodlines?” “It’s true?” “No idea, Sasuke won’t tell me anything about his parents other than their names, and he’s three, but even the chance of it being true means we have an arguable claim.” “...that’s not going to be enough to convince the Uchiha.” “The theory is but one weapon of many in the upcoming battle of wits.” “Tobirama--” “Now if you’ll excuse me, Anija, I need to go make sure Suigetsu doesn’t flood the training grounds again.”

tbh I can’t remember who made the original comment in canon about the Rinnegan being achieved via Senju/Uchiha babies but it’s funny to use here so I’ll pretend it’s a common rumor that nobody actually believes

MEANWHILE WITH THE UCHIHA Madara found and took custody of Team Seven and company, mostly because they’re like... jounin-level despite being less than three feet tall.

It involves a lot of Madara going "I want My New Children to love me!" and being sorely disappointed by half of them. Poor fucker got stuck with Naruto, Sakura, Sai, Kakashi, Yamato, and Obito.

(KakaYamaObito are deaged by the time-travel to 10-13ish. The kids are deaged to 3-4. Everyone has memories to just after the fourth war or so.)

Karin sensed T7 and tagalong pretty much the second they popped out of Kamui, and told Sasuke, but he correctly guessed that Naruto would hunt him down eventually, and said they should enjoy the peace and quiet while they had it.

Sai pulls emotionless creepy smiles in an attempt to freak out Madara but since Madara's whole thing initially was "less children in war," he's... mostly just sad. Izuna wants to know who made his brother cry.

Madara makes a vaguely misogynistic comment that's typical for the period and Sakura just. Breaks his tibia.

Naruto is genuinely trying to treat Madara with the kind of respect a caretaker that Attempts To Care And Do Good By Them deserves, because Naruto is a good egg, but he's... three again. Which means he's a Hellion.

The literal toddlers (Naruto and Sakura are three-ish, Sai is four-ish) are, in fact, toddlers, so nobody really expects them to be able to do anything. Nobody bothers to test them beyond the basics of like. Can walk? Can talk? Can maybe hold knife? Like don’t get me wrong, they’re very competent toddlers, but their hands can barely wrap around a kunai. Their bodies are tiny. Their bones only just stopped being soft!

That said, the “tweens” (re: adults who got deaged but Less) have to get tested for their skills. Kakashi downplays himself to what he imagines a semi-competent eleven-year-old to be capable of. He thinks of, like, Neji maybe? Good, but not suspiciously good.

Obito enters an intangible state and refuses to participate. He has a Mangekyo. His body is half-Zetsu. Stop bothering him. He doesn’t want to do anything. They assign him babysitting duty for Team Seven since he can obviously defend pretty well, and Kakashi vouches for his abilities as a fighter.

Yamato decides to try to be just a little worse than Kakashi but at one point he panics and does Mokuton on instinct and now the entire Uchiha compound is screeching because did they just steal a Main Family Senju kid by accident?

Yamato: Should I tell them I was a science experiment? Kakashi: No.

Pranks galore! None of the other time-travelers even try to stop Naruto, except maybe Yamato.

Obito at the Uchiha compound is mostly "I don't want to participate" and then just uses Kamui to be intangible until people leave him alone. If it's not another time-traveler or Madara, he's not interested. He doesn't even care that much about Sai or Yamato, actually, so if it's not an original T7 member, he doesn't care, and if it's Madara, he's just here to make things Difficult.

The Kyuubi wanders up to the Uchiha compound one day and everyone's preparing for a battle, even Madara isn't confident that he can-- [BANG] "KURAMA!" [delighted squealing]

Naruto now has a pet. The entire clan is terrified. Kurama pokes his nose at Naruto's stomach and disappears into the memory of a seal.

Madara, frantically writing a letter to Hashirama "What do I do if my toddler is possessed?!?"

Hashirama: You have a toddler?!?!?! OMG you should organize playdates with Tobirama's kids! Madara: I'M GOING TO QUESTION THAT LATER, PLEASE HELP WITH THE POSSESSION THING

Kurama hunts down Naruto, and the Jinchuuriki situation is very much in the realm of "Dis Mine" Also a bit of "If I'm in the brat, there's at least one Mangekyo user in hearing distance who can and will risk his life to prevent brainwashing. (Kakashi. It’s Kakashi.)

Naruto: Kurama's one of my best friends! Every time traveler: Yeah, that tracks. Madara: [teakettle screeching]

Per @firebirdeternal​: I'm just loving the visual of Giant Nightmare Terror Kurama kneeling down and pressing his nose to Naruto's Smol Chubby Toddler self and closing his eyes while Naruto pets him and giggles and every single battle-ready Uchiha is just. "wat"

Everybody else: Cool so Madara adopted a witch Uchiha Elders: We need to be careful of this horrible creature The younger generation of Uchiha: Okay that was weirdly serene and adorable and frankly the brat is really likeable when he's not being adhd as hell I think this is actually pretty dope.

Madara really wants to be a Good Dad but he has no idea how he ended up being "a dad" in the first place. He just! He cares a lot about this random assortment of kids! Some of them are from prominent clans and there should be search parties for the Senju kid with the Mokuton, or the Hatake brat, or the Uzumaki that doesn't look Uzumaki but definitely feels Uzumaki.... and SURE the only Uchiha of the bunch is a stranger who hates him for no reason Madara can come up with, but! He wants to be a good authority figure!

At least the Uzumaki appreciates that he's trying.

Seriously, though, there are clan kids and nobody’s looking for them, what’s up with that?

Kakashi still has a prize copy of Icha Icha and nobody in the Uchiha compound does a thorough check of his reading material until like three months in.

He is blamed for Naruto developing the Oiroke, because where ELSE would a toddler get such ideas? (Yamato and Obito both tell him he brought this on himself.)

Naruto waits until a Big Important Meeting lets out, something about tithes or a merchant contract, and just pulls a Harem no Jutsu in front of the entire group of Elders And Main Family. First he does a Mass Shadow Clone, which makes everyone turn on Sharingan because Fancy New Techniques to steal! Sure, they were late on the shadow clones, but the kid is clearly gearing up for something! The something is Oiroke.

Anime Nosebleeds everywhere. Most of the elders were hit. Izuna was hit. Madara is not bleeding from the nose, but he is very upset about having semi-accidentally sharingan-memorized his weird adoptee’s Sexy Older Female Alter Ego. There is yelling.

Naruto’s like “Oh, I missed some!” and decides to try again with Reverse Harem no Jutsu because there are old ladies among the Elders, and maybe some straight women representing a guild, and maybe some gay guys he missed! Madara is still not bleeding. (He’s very demi and tbh Naruto only would have succeeded if he’d tried to use Hashirama’s face. Naruto does not know this. He just figures Madara is ace like Sasuke and that no variant is going to work.)

Izuna gets another nosebleed and is just like “Well, this is not how I planned on coming out as bi, but--” “Izuna, I literally do not care about you being bi as long as one of us has an heir at some point, I’m more upset about the fact that my child has been corrupted!”

Back in the Senju compound, there is... a lot of screaming, honestly, but every time Karin and Suigetsu start trying to kill each other again, Tobirama just shrugs and tells them not to break anything.

Very easy-going caretaker, really. He's got some very deadly toddlers in hand, but they're still just toddlers.

Sasuke: Yeah, I might want to go see my clan at some point. Suigetsu: Yeah, I might want to go see my clan at some point. Karin, clinging to Mito: Yeah, I want to go see my clan at some point. Juugo: Please never, ever take me to my clan. Ever. Please. I'll stay with Sasuke, thank you.

Naruto breaks out of the Uchiha compound the first time he enters Sage Mode, several months in (it took a while to get the privacy) because he feels Sasuke and lbr if Naruto knows where Sasuke is, nothing will stop him.

The Uchiha clansmen cannot catch the errant toddler. They fail to inform Madara until Naruto is already in Senju territory because nobody wanted to admit the toddler outmaneuvered them.

Naruto wasn’t sure how to get into the Senju Compound safely so he just goes full Kyuubi, bounds over the wall screaming SASUKEEEEE at the top of his lungs, and then shrinks back down to Tiny Brat size so he could hug his Bestest Friend Ever and cling like a limpet while Sasuke just sighs and stares at the wall.

Sakura ran after him.

Sai painted a bird and Yamato dragged Kakashi onto it to chase Naruto, because Kakashi is at a point of zen regarding Naruto's bullshit and fully trusts the kid to not die.

Obito refuses to look up from whatever he's doing and asks people why they think he cares.

“We told you to look after the toddlers!” “Why would you do that? Seems like poor planning on your part.”

Disappears when nobody's looking. Waits until the Ruckus at the Senju compound (where T7 has crashed in to tackle-hug Sasuke and Madara followed in and proceeded to get shouty, and nobody's dead or battling because they're too confused and also it's a comedy) has started to calm down, and then teleports in and demonstrates Mokuton just to make Madara's life harder when the Senju Elders start demanding answers.

His energy is very "I am here to make Madara's life harder" and Madara still doesn't know what he did wrong.

Madara: That brat has a Sharingan! Tobirama: Well THAT one has Mokuton! Obito: Yamato has it too. [angry teakettle noises]

Madara's first response to seeing Sasuke is to turn to Izuna and point aggressively at the toddler while making a tea-kettle noise "He looks just like you!" "He's four, he barely looks like anything!"

Naruto, tugging at Madara's hakama: You need to make a village with Hashirama so I can see Sasuke more often, cuz I don't wanna ditch you guys, but I gotta see Sasuke! He's my best friend! Madara, who is aware that he could fight this child but really doesn't want to, and also knows that a tantrum thrown by Naruto or Sasuke is capable of leveling mountains: Right, yes, we'll get right on that.

tbh Madara wants the village anyway but "The bijuu-whisperer said he wants it to happen" is a great way to push things forward.

[iamanartichoke]

I wrote a Thing. It’s extremely long. I’d prefer it not be reblogged; I wrote this for my own catharsis and would prefer it not be circulated, bc of Reasons. 

I changed my mind, okay to reblog. <3 

Under a cut for (extreme, did I mention?) length. 

So I got about 12 minutes of sleep last night, as you do, and around 3am or so I found myself - out of sheer curiosity - going down a meta hole of Ragnarok discourse, trying to figure out where this "satisfying redemption arc" for Loki happened. (I mean, there's a lot of things I would like to figure out, but I started there.) Because I could. 

Basically I was looking for meta that went into detail about how Loki was redeemed in a satisfactory way. The ‘satisfactory’  is an important word here bc there is a redemption arc in the film, in that Loki starts off the film as an antagonist (kinda) to Thor and he ends the film as an ally to Thor, standing at Thor's side. In that sense, yes, there's a redemption arc. I didn't find much (and I had no idea how much people just despise Ragnarok "antis" [I really dislike that word] but that's another topic [that I don't particularly want to get into, tbh]) but I did find some. I read what I could find, and I read it open-mindedly, and overall I came away feeling like, okay, there are some valid points being made here and I can kinda see where they're coming from.

But it was a bit (a lot) like -- flat. Idk. The best comparison I can think of is that it’s like if a literature class read, I don't know, The Yellow Wallpaper for an assignment, and some of the students came away from it feeling like it was a creepy story about a woman slowly driving herself insane, and the other students came away from it incensed at the oppression and infantilization of women in the late 19th century -

- and neither side is wrong, but the former is a very surface-level reading and the latter isn't (bc it stems from looking at why she drives herself insane, why she was prescribed 'rest' in the first place, the context of what women could and couldn't do back then, etc; basically, a bit more work has to go into it). 

[Note: I am not disparaging the quality of The Yellow Wallpaper. At all. It’s just the first relatively well-known story that popped into my head.]

In this sense, I can see the argument for Loki's redemption arc, but I don't think it's a very good argument. Not invalid, but not great.

I mean, for example, I think the most consistent argument I found variations of re: Loki's redemption is that Ragnarok shows Loki finally taking responsibility for his bad behaviour and misdeeds. This includes recognizing that his actions were fueled from a place of self-hatred and a desire to self-destruct in addition to bringing destruction on others. That he probably feels awkward and regretful of these things and doesn't know how to act around Thor, but he figures it out by the end, and decides that returning to Asgard is the best way to show that he's ready to make amends. His act of bringing the Statesman to Asgard is an apology. He allies himself with Thor and ends up in a better place, both narratively (united with Thor once again) and mentally (having taken responsibility and made amends for his past).

And setting aside that he had already made amends by sacrificing his life in TDW (and also setting aside that the argument is made that Loki redeems himself in IW by sacrificing himself to Thanos but if that's the case, wouldn't that imply that he hadn't achieved redemption in Ragnarok or else there would be no need to achieve it again in IW? Or, if you think he did achieve redemption in Ragnarok, then what the fuck did he give his life in IW for? What was his motivation there, and why did the narrative not make it clearer? I digress.) 

- setting aside those two factors, I think this is a very fair argument. Loki is fueled by self-hatred, and he does want to self-destruct, and he does want to inflict that pain on others as well (particularly Thor). No lies detected here. 

However, I also need to know where that self-hatred and desire for destruction (toward himself and others) comes from and for that, we need to go back to Thor 1.

Thor 1. 

Loki starts Thor 1 out as "a clenched fist with hair," to borrow a quote from the Haunting of Hill House (that I tucked away in my mental box of Lovely Things bc it says so much so very simply). He's very used to bottling everything up, pushing it down; he slinks around behind the scenes, pulling the strings to this plot or that. He's "always been one for mischief," but the narrative implies that the coronation incident is the first time Loki's done anything truly terrible. And it all immediately pretty much goes to shit, so Loki spends the rest of the movie frantically juggling all these moving pieces while trying to seem as if he's got it all under control, every step of the way. That's how I view his actions. 

But I always come back to that quote where Kenneth Branaugh tells Tom, of the scene in the vault, "This is where the thin steel rod that's been holding your mind together snaps." In other words this is where Loki discovering he's Jotun is just one thing too many. He can't take it. But though the rod snaps, his descent isn't a nosedive. It's a tumble. As the story progresses, the clenched fist starts to loosen, the muscles are flexed in unfamiliar ways (that feel kinda good, after being stiff for so long), and it culminates with the hand opening completely and shaking itself out. All of that repression, that self-hatred, that rage and jealousy just explodes so that, by the time the bifrost scene happens, Loki's already hit bottom. It's not just about proving his worthiness to Odin. He wants to hurt Thor, too; he, essentially, throws a tantrum. (That's right, I said tantrum.) 

(Note: The word 'tantrum’ has negative connotations bc we normally equate it with a toddler stamping their feet and screaming in the aisle when their parent won't buy them the toy they want. But in itself, the word tantrum isn't infantalizing. It's an "emotional outburst, an uncontrolled explosion of anger and frustration" [paraphrasing from dictionary.com]. That's exactly what happens here [and why Tom called Loki's actions a massive tantrum, but people took that to mean Tom agreed it was childish whereas I doubt Tom meant it that way]).

He's been pushed past his limit, and he does bad things. He does really shitty things. He hurts Thor, he hurts his family. I'm pretty sure he knows this all along so this isn't, like, some revelation further down the line that "hey, those things I did were probably kinda bad." He got the memo already. 

Ragnarok 

Fast forward to Ragnarok, and we're introduced to a version of Loki who's had 4ish years to sit with everything that's happened. To sit with it and not do much else. The rawness of it has faded, and now it seems as though it's just become a thing, like when you move through life aware of your childhood traumas and have more or less just accepted them (and you probably share a lot of really funny depression memes on Facebook, which is kinda the equivalent of Loki's play, but that's probably just me). 

Loki has, more or less, chilled out. He seems more bored than anything else; he's been masquerading as Odin for longer than he ever planned or intended to, so he's more or less ended up hanging out, letting Asgard mind its own business, and entertaining himself with silly plays. This is the version that starts out the movie as an antagonist to Thor - a version that is, arguably, in a much different place [and is a much milder threat] than the version who originally did those Bad Things. 

And of course Thor is still mad at him, and of course they're going to butt heads, because that's what they do (and Thor's grievances are genuine, I’ll add, bc it's not really his fault he assumed Loki faked his death, nor can he be blamed for being pissed about Odin).

One argument framed this version of Loki as being a person who is facing the awkwardness of coming out of a dark place, which is fair. If we're going to frame his actions in Thor 1 as a tantrum, then Ragnarok would be the part where the toddler has been taken home, possibly has had some lunch and a juice box, and is now watching cartoons. They're over the tantrum, and would probably feel pretty silly about it if they weren't, yknow, toddlers. They probably can't remember why they even wanted that toy so badly. If they're a little older and self-aware, they might even be embarrassed for having melted down.

Like the word tantrum, this feeling isn't a thing limited to toddlers. I know I've had a few epic meltdowns as a grown ass adult, and I know I always feel deeply embarrassed afterwards - like, want to crawl into a hole and die. I've said things I can't take back. Adolescents and teenagers throw tantrums, mentally ill people throw tantrums, adults throw tantrums (I mean, my god, look at all the videos of Karens having screaming meltdowns - screaming! - over having to wear masks in order to shop at stores). Humans throw tantrums. And usually, after the feelings have been let out and the tantrum has passed, humans feel pretty regretful and awkward and embarrassed about whatever they did and said in the midst of their meltdown. 

I get all of that and agree it's valid and that Loki probably feels it. By the time Ragnarok happens, Loki's had some time to reflect and think hmm, yeah, probably could've handled that one a lot better. The argument further goes that in order to navigate this awkward period, Loki must come to terms with what he's done, acknowledge that some things can't be unsaid or undone, and begin to make amends. Supposedly, some people feel that Loki becomes a better person because he does "own" everything he did wrong and, even though he feels like a jackass (paraphrasing), he sets that aside to become a become a better person by choosing to help Thor and Asgard at the end. 

Thus, the overall arc goes like this. Loki, Thor's jealous little brother, 

throws a tantrum of epic proportions bc Reasons 

continues to act badly and make things even worse (Avengers) 

has to face consequences for his actions (prison sentence) 

ends up with a stretch of time in which he's free to contemplate and chill out 

feels embarrassed and awkward about how he's behaved

sees an opportunity to make up for it and decides to take it 

helps Thor, saves the day, and ends the film a better person. 

Redemption achieved.

None of this is wrong. The film supports it. It's a fair interpretation. But it leaves. out. so. much.

To circle all the way back around Loki being "a clenched fist with hair," and his actions stemming from his self-hatred, you have to ask - how did he get that way? He didn't end up with all this self-hatred on accident. Generally, one isn't born despising themselves, it's a learned behavior. (I realize chemical imbalances are a thing, obviously, as I have Mental Shit myself, but for argument's sake I'm assuming that's not the case with Loki [at this point in time]). 

Where did Loki learn it? From his family, from his surroundings, from his culture. We see examples of these microaggressions in the first, like, twenty minutes of the movie - a guard openly laughs at Loki's magic after Thor makes a joke about it (the tone of the conversation implies that Thor "jokes" like this often) and though Loki does the snake thing, the guard faces no real consequences. Thor doesn't acknowledge that anything went amiss. Not much later, on their way to Jotunheim, Loki's barely gotten two words out to Heimdall before Thor cuts him off, steps in front of him, and takes charge. Loki doesn't look annoyed at this; he looks resigned. 

Then, for absolutely no reason at all, Volstagg decides to make a jab at Loki ("silver tongue turned to lead?") just because he can. The ease with which he makes this comment and the way that no one else blinks an eye at it implies that this isn't out of the norm. And Loki doesn't react, not really. In the deleted version, he delivers a particularly nasty comeback but he delivers it under his breath, without intending Volstagg to hear it. In the final version, he simply says nothing, though his expression can be read as hurt or stung. Either way, the audience sees an example of Loki being walked all over by Thor and his friends and bottling up his reactions instead of standing up for himself. 

Microaggressions matter. They are mentally and emotionally damaging. They hurt. The implication that this is not unusual treatment for Loki means that Loki's probably gone through this for most of his life. It's like the equivalent of being, I don't know, twenty two and you're the friend who has to walk behind the others when the sidewalk isn't wide enough, and it's been that way since the first day of kindergarten. At this point, you're used to it, but that doesn't make it hurt any less when the jabs come seemingly out of nowhere, for no reason other than to make you feel bad.

(I personally identify a lot with this bc I experienced passive bullying in social settings for years. I was the 'doesn't fit on the sidewalk' friend; I hung around with people who'd pretend to be my friend and would be more or less nice to my face, but would laugh at me and make fun of me behind my back for whatever reasons. And often there'd be the random jabs at me, things that would come out of nowhere to smack me in the face, followed by the fake laugh and “just kidding!" so that I couldn't even get upset without being made to feel like I was overreacting and couldn't take a joke. I'd deal with this socially, particularly in middle school when girls are their most vicious, and then I'd go home and, because I was the only girl with a lot of brothers and because boys are mean and because I am who I am, the dynamic was that my brothers would just endlessly roast me to my face and sometimes it was a "just kidding!" thing, where I was the only one not laughing. But that’s beside the point; my point is that microaggressions, passive bullying, and consistent invalidation are harmful and that shit stays with you into adulthood.) 

So, yes, Loki needs to be held responsible for his misdeeds, and it's valid to say that he recognizes those misdeeds and wants to make amends. I have never disagreed with that. But the problem with this interpretation is that it lets every single other character who contributed to Loki's self-hatred and mental breakdown (let's just call a spade a spade here, that's what it was; he was broken psychologically) get off scot-free.

First of all,

Odin is not held accountable for instilling in the princes a mentality of Asgard first, everyone is beneath us but Jotuns are benath us the most, they are literal monsters. He is not held accountable for pitting his sons against one another (even if it was unintentional, he still did it) with "you were both born to be kings but only one of you can rule" being the general tone of their upbringing. He's not held accountable for his favoritism toward Thor.

Frigga is not held accountable for deferring to Odin both in supporting the above things and in keeping the truth of Loki's origins a secret while doing nothing to discourage the "monsters" narrative. 

Thor is not held accountable for his own tendency of taking Loki for granted (he assumes Loki will come to Jotunheim, he oversteps Loki constantly, “know your place,” etc.. He grants his implicit permission for Loki to be treated as the sidewalk friend in their “group,” a group which is loyal to and takes their cues from Thor as Thor continues to do nothing in his brother's defense).

[Note: Wanting Thor to be held accountable for things he's done wrong isn't vilifying him. Acknowledging that Thor benefited from Odin's favoritism and his own place as Crown Prince doesn't negate Thor also being raised in an abusive environment. I don't think anyone's saying that or, if they have, it's not something I agree with.]

Furthermore, 

Odin is not held accountable for his cruelty in disowning Loki (”your birthright was to die” is never going to be forgotten, speaking of people saying things that can't be unsaid or taken back) and in sentencing Loki to a severe prison sentence (life! only bc Frigga wouldn't let him execute Loki) for crimes that are no worse than what Odin himself has committed (around which the entire plot of Ragnarok revolves! Colonialism (and subjugation) is wrong is, like, a major theme [that people rush to praise, even] here). 

Thor is also never held accountable for not trying harder to understand what made Loki snap (fair enough, he didn't have a ton of time after returning from Earth, but certainly he had lots of time to sit around reflecting while Loki was being tortured by Thanos for a year). He knows Loki is "not himself" and "beyond reason" and accepts it at face value; he questions it once and then lets it go. He's fine with assuming Loki's just lost his mind, and isn't that a shame. (I realize I'm simplifying Thor's emotions but my point is that Thor could've tried harder to figure out that Loki was being influenced and/or not acting completely autonomously.) 

Thor is also never held accountable for - if not facing consequences for his own slaughter of Jotuns - then at least addressing why Loki can't kill an entire race even though Thor tried to do that, like, two days ago. (Granted, it’s difficult to understand how Thor got from Point A ("let's finish them together, Father!") to Point B (this is wrong!), but that failing belongs to Thor 1 (which is not, by the way, a perfect movie).

The interpretation that Loki is fully redeemed because he took responsibility for his actions, returned to Asgard, and allied himself with Thor to save their people is all well and good - but, why is Loki the only one here who has to take responsibility for their actions? 

What about all the loose threads in his story? 

For example, how did he get from: 

Point A (believing himself a literal monster, having a complete mental breakdown, getting tortured and further traumatized after that, etc) 

to 

Point B (Hey, yknow what would be fun? I'm going to write and direct a play about how I heroically died to save Thor and Jane, and I'll go ahead and have Odin say he accepts me and has always loved me. I'm going to do these things because Odin never said this in real life and instead of acknowledging my sacrifice, Thor left my body in the dirt, so someone has to validate what I've done right and that someone might as well be me. And hey, while I'm at it, I'm going to control the narrative on revealing myself as Jotun to Asgard, instead of living in fear of it being found out, and I'm going to do it in a way that they have to sympathize with me and revere me in death, bc they never bothered to do so when I was alive. And Matt Damon should play me, also.) 

to 

Point C (Yeah, I guess I feel kinda awkward about that whole tantrum thing, also I should help Thor and support him being king.)

? 

The answers to these questions are handwaved and the audience takes that to mean they don't matter. Furthermore, framing Loki's redemption around an act of service (more or less) to Thor makes Loki's redemption about Thor. Does Loki make this decision for the sake of Thor and of Asgard, or does he make it for himself? It's not super clear to me, and I think arguments can be made for both. Which, again, is fine, but - whatever.

If we're going to collectively agree, as a fandom, that Loki is complex, that he's morally gray, that he's worthy of redemption and therefore arguably a good person who's done bad things, then why is it asking too much to have it acknowledged that Thor (also a good person who's done bad things) played a part in Loki's downfall and has shit to apologize for, too? Bc one can only assume the reason is that you're taking a very gray concept and making it black and white by saying Loki has to apologize and make amends because he is the villain, and Thor doesn't because he is the hero (and it's his movie). And it's lazy.

This is where the crux of the issue lands. There's more than one valid interpretation, yes. And no two people (or groups of people, or whatever) are going to consume and therefore interpret or analyze the source material in the same way. I think I saw a post recently about how studies have been done on this, in fact. But, there is a lot going on under the surface that tends to get overlooked when exploring Loki's redemption arc in Ragnarok, as far as I can see, and that’s why I don’t consider it satisfactory. 

[I did read similar arguments regarding other issues that are often debated ('debated'), like Loki's magic and/or being underpowered, whether or not Loki's betrayal of Thor was the natural outcome of the situation on Sakaar or not, whether Thor actually gets closure with Odin [if he does, how does he reconcile the father he's idolized with the imperialistic conqueror he's discovered? Why doesn't he hold Odin responsible for covering up Hela's existence and the threat of her return, especially as he knew he was nearing the end of his life? Is Thor's "I'm not as strong as you" meant to imply that he acknowledges those shortcomings of Odin's and that he's okay with them, or that he's just overlooking them, or is he not okay with them but didn't have the chance to get into it bc he was in the middle of battle? T'Challa confronted his father on his wrongdoings in Black Panther; could Thor not have had at least one line that was confrontational enough to establish where he stands as opposed to this gray middle? Can someone explain to me how any of this equates to Thor gaining closure? Please?) but obviously I'm not going to go into all of them (well, I tried not to), bc this mammoth post has gone on long enough (I may not even post this tbh)]

- but my overall point to this entire thing is that when I say I'm critical of Ragnarok bc it's flawed, that Loki's arc was neither complete nor satisfactory, that many things went unaddressed and, due to all of these things, I do not think Ragnarok is a very good movie nor a very cohesive movie, this is where I'm coming from. I have not seen anything to change my mind to the contrary. 

But I am not saying that anyone satisfied with it is wrong, or shouldn't have the interpretation that they do. I'm not vilifying Thor in order to lift Loki up, just acknowledging that Thor is arguably just as flawed as Loki without the stigma of being Designated Villain. I think a lot of these arguments get overlooked or dismissed, and that's fine, but it doesn't make the people who do engage with them hateful, or bitter, or trying to excuse Loki's crimes, or feeling like redemption means that Loki's crimes should be erased rather than reconciled. 

And sure, yes, perhaps we are expecting too much and exploring all of these themes (or wanting them explored) means that somehow we think it should be Loki's movie (we don't). Loki is a supporting character, but he's still a character. And the movie itself doesn't have to delve into all these things - no one's saying that. (At least, I'm not.) We just want acknowledgement, from the narrative, that this stuff was an Issue. 

This could have been accomplished with - 

Some dialogue closer to the novelization (and original script), like Thor and Loki both acknowledging the harm they've done one another and their kingdom due to their Feels.

 A single line of Thor confronting Odin, or even asking "Why?" 

A narrative acknowledgement that Odin did both Thor and Loki dirty (”I love you, my sons” isn't an apology, because it doesn't acknowledge either that there's been wrong-doing or express regret for having done the wrong in the first place). 

A little bit more nuance in the way Loki treats his own past (ie, instead of flippantly telling the story of his suicide attempt, maybe - if it must be flippant - talk about getting blasted in the face with Hawkeye's arrow or sailing through to Svartalfheim [And in that moment, I sang ta-daaaa!]) or whatever. 

I recognize that wanting full, in-depth exploration on all of these issues regarding a supporting character is probably too much to ask or expect - but, I also feel like, if you're going to be professionally writing a narrative (or rewriting/improvising, as it were), it's not too much to ask that a little more care be taken in regards to all of the layers that have contributed to said supporting character's downfall and subsequent redemption arc. I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to want. 

And maybe if there had been more nuance and continuity in how these things were portrayed on screen (ie, if TW had actually done as good a job as his stans think he did), the fandom wouldn't have divided and conquered itself over which "version" of the same character is more valid and whether or not the film did its best to close out a trilogy (not start a new one), to the point where everyone in this fandom space makes navigating it feel like walking through a minefield. 

But, I mean 

(Again, please don’t reblog if possible.) 

Edit: Okay to reblog. <3 

[thunderon]

I noticed something in my reread of GtN and i have not yet seen any posts about this so i would like to ask if you know more about this. (You have many smart insights I thinn)

(Chapter 10)

So Cytherea sent protesilaus to check on something. And he comedy back to verbally report it to her. This confuses the shit out of me because

1) if protesilaus is an empty vessel he should not be able to tasks on his own, let alone talk. So maybe he is not empty but possessed?

2)this could be a set up by her moving protesilaus around and using his vocal cords somehow??? (Wich would mean she would also need to move certain muscle for him to get air moving inside his trachea) wich seems a bit much tbh

3) ??????

ooooh i love this ask. not gonna lie, my knee jerk reaction to your ask was 'no way he was possessed', but then i actually sat and thought about it and went 'well, wait a second'. so let's look at this.

She hadn’t executed it very well—her parents were fine from the shoulders up, but from the shoulders down they were bad

so if harrow improperly executed the diaphragm/lungs she would be unable to control them to speak, especially considering her specialty is bone magic and not beguiling corpses. but does this mean cytherea wouldn't be able to accomplish it?

so we know the bitch is a lyctor and has powers far beyond what harrow could have accomplished pre-lyctorhood, and that appears to extend to puppeting pro. here’s another snippet of him speaking:

Every so often she would say something terse to Protesilaus, who would take sixty seconds to think about it before making replies so uninflected and curt that they made Harrow sparkle by comparison.

so his speaking wasnt super chatty and animated, but was that cytherea controlling him or not? was she really carrying on two conversations at dinner at one time? i mean, maybe. in addition to being a lyctor, cytherea is of the seventh house. beguiling corpses is their specialty as said here:

The Seventh House have been perfecting the way of the beguiling corpse for years and years and years. It’s just—not entirely allowed... And it’s not unholy—it’s entirely useful and blameless; just not when you do it like this, which is the very old way. The Seventh aren’t just soul-stoppers and mummifiers. ”

now this tracks nicely but harrow, who has an unexpected knowledge of beguiling corpses, still insists that it still shouldn’t be possible three times.

That doesn’t add up.” Harrow was stiff as concrete.

“It’s not possible,” insisted Harrow, words hard and clipped in her mouth.

Harrow said to him, slowly: “Undoing the cavalier’s bodywork should have killed her. It would have been an incredible shock to her system.”

i can imagine harrow sitting there like:

cuz like,,, what the fuck? harrow, a necromantic powerhouse, has puppeted her parents around for years and doesn’t understand how ‘dulcinea’ managed to control protesilaus for that period of time and survive the shock (which has interesting implications for what would have happened if someone would have been able to necromantically probe at harrow’s parents, but i digress).

obviously we find out cytherea is a lyctor and we all chalk it up nicely to “it was all in her lyctor abilities and House necromantic specialty”. but is this a closed case? here’s this little excerpt in harrow the ninth. if anyone hasn’t read it, stop here (although it shouldn’t contain any major spoilers just to be safe):

Harrowhark was bemused all over again by Protesilaus Ebdoma, whom she had never seen alive; if anyone had seen him alive, they never would have mistaken that shuffling zombie for his real self. Cytherea was a Lyctor and could have easily done better; she simply hadn’t bothered.

that's what actually made me think 'hmmm you may be onto something with your possession theory'. so as choppy and uncoordinated as cytherea puppets him, voice and all, HARROW SAYS SHE COULD HAVE DONE BETTER. and she just... didn’t? and was the scene you attached pro seemingly having autonomy (via possession), or was that cytherea giving the appearance of pro having autonomy? that also has interesting implications.

if we choose to look past the neatly wrapped up storyline, if we want to start asking questions like ‘did she really just not give a fuck?’ and ‘was protesilaus actually possessed?'. i think we can. i mean, the descriptions would match up very well with how cytherea’s body was possessed by wake (as opposed to how colum was possessed). as to who or what would be possessing pro? i have no idea. but it’s definitely a fun little theory, if more on the conspiracy side.

tl;dr: pro's body probably talked because cytherea was both a lyctor and an expert in beguiling corpses, but i think there's enough wiggle room to speculate pro's body could have been possessed.

[somebody-909]

Yeong-gi was arrested as a kid [I Love Yoo Theory]

In celebration of the return of my favourite webtoon, I thought I'd share the theory I shared on reddit a while ago about our favourite red head (revamped with pictures and extra discussion). This theory was eventually pretty much proven correct in Episode 112.

TLDR: Allusions to violent behaviour, a bad period of time where Yeong-gi was away, and stigmatized treatment resembling how you treat a criminal, lead me to believe that Yeong-gi, having been deeply affected by the events with his mother, developed violent behaviour, that resulted in legal trouble of some sort. He was then sent "away" somewhere for some time, likely either juvie or a rehabilitation centre of sorts for juvenile delinquents.

1. "How long has it been since you got out?"

In episode 16, when Kousuke visits Yeong-gi at Mrs. Lochlainn's (Yeong-gi's granny) place, he asks:

"How long has it been since you got out? Four years, maybe five? I'll stop for today. I know you don't like being reminded of what happened back then."

This suggests that Yeong-gi "got out" of some place/institution. The words "got out" are also quite ominous... (I would even argue that it implies being "locked" away). I find it hard to believe he would be using this for something that wasn't incredibly unpleasant/hard for Yeong-gi to get through. Kousuke proceeds to say, "Four years, maybe five? I'll stop for today. I know you don't like being reminded of what happened back then," confirming this implication.

I have seen a few possible interpretations of where Yeong-gi might've been "away" for a while. I personally think it's most likely something legal (juvie or juvenile delinquent related rehab), although others believe it might've been a mental institution, and others think it was a boarding school.

I see how "got out" could be used for the first two options easily, but the last one is a bit more shaky. "... since you left boarding school" might be a more natural way of referring to that, since it would have to be a really bad boarding school to refer to it in the way Kousuke does.

The following clues lean more towards Yeong-gi being away due to criminal reasons, however.

2. Treated like a delinquent.

The next clue and the biggest is how everyone treats Yeong-gi. His family treats him like a delinquent (I choose this word specifically because of its connotations... not just a troubled, hopeless kid... but more a kid you can't trust because he will be irresponsible and bad).

In episode 19, the students talk about how Yeong-gi hangs out with Soushi (who they think is a delinquent as seen in episode 20 probably bc he's a brown guy with a scar tbh TT)

"His family's got some great connections, that's the only reason I'm being friendly with the dude."

"But what's the point in doing that? He only hangs out with this delinquent from another school."

"You're joking..."

"I'm not! I saw him! Got a scar too... probably got it from a fight..."

"So it's true what they say then... Him being..."

"Shh! Don't say it out loud!"

They think Yeong-gi is hanging out with and is friends with a delinquent who they associate with having been violent. They immediately ask, "So is it true what they say then … Him being …"

What kind of rumour would they think is true if they saw Yeong-gi hanging out with a "thug"?

It would make sense to finish that question with "So is it true what they say then … Him being a criminal" or "a delinquent".

If we were to go with the mental hospital theory, it might work if they said "him being violent" but that doesn't really work as well here in relation to Soushi being a "delinquent."

There is a bit of nuance between what they would associate with someone with a criminal history, in comparison to someone who had been admitted to an institution for mental health issues, even if both possibilities were linked to violent outbursts.

As for his family, they treat him terribly. Like he's a screw up, a troublemaker. Not so much like someone with mental illness. I think by this point its clear that Yeong-gi made a big mistake, but what would be so bad that they treat him like this?

3. Hints of being "away" and having a criminal past.

There are several subtle hints that indicate Yeong-gi did have a criminal past of sorts. Or at least spent some time away.

Episode 79 - significant criminal past

When Yeong-gi and his father meet the lawyer about the assault and drug case in episode 79, the lawyer says:

"Your son does not have a significant criminal past."

Why not just say that he doesn't have "a criminal past" at all, period? Now this seems negligible, but Quimchee has used very subtle hints like this in the past so I wouldn't put it past her (eg. Yui calling Yeong-gi, "kid," and Kousuke "son," to indicate she is related to Kousuke and not Yeong-gi).

Episode 79 - Hansuke couldn't get to know Yeong-gi

Kousuke's cousin, Hansuke, states that he never got to know Yeong-gi back in their college days because:

"I was busy with my residency and [Yeong-gi] was… you know… "

This alludes to Yeong-gi having been unable to hang out because he had something going on...

Kousuke's Corner 2 and Episode 72 - a year behind

Yeong-gi is also a year older than Shin-Ae and his twelfth grade peers... Having any sort of legal trouble could cause a kid to flunk a year.

References to violent behaviour

In Episode 51, Kousuke mocks Yeong-gi, stating that he can have his assistant bring his punching bag if he needed an outlet for his frustrations.

Not being in "control" of his emotions is a recurring motif, with Yeong-gi's family members and even with himself.

Affinity for physical fitness (boxing) as a coping mechanism

I think it's significant that after being alluded to having had violent behaviour, his coping mechanism is something very physical. Boxing, interestingly, imitates violence.

Thematically fits with the end of the Black and White Formal arc

This is more my personal opinion... But I think Yeong-gi punching that pos Sangchul after constantly being passive aggressively criticized for violent behaviour is... cruelly fitting. Him being arrested and possibly repeating what had once happened, and after he had constantly been told not to repeat it, would be a sad parallel to what he once had to deal with.

Possible alternative explanations

TW: mentions of poor mental health and suicide attempts

I think it's most certain that Yeong-gi had legal trouble of some sort, likely due to a violent altercation, and that he was sent somewhere as a result of this incident.

Where he was actually sent to as a result, however, is a bit more shaky.

Since it was a minor criminal past, it's possible could've been simply arrested and not been sent to juvie at all. If his father was heavily involved in his life, he would likely have intervened if juvie became a possibility.

There are some who speculate Yeong-gi had very poor mental health, likely due to what happened with his mother and may have even attempted suicide. While this is possible, there isn't a lot to indicate past depressive or suicidal tendencies. For sure, his violent behaviour was coupled with poor mental health... but not necessarily poor mental health of this nature. I also feel that there is some nuance in how people would talk to Yeong-gi if his time away was precipitated by a suicide attempt. Someone who had self-harming tendencies isn't treated like a thug. Someone who beat up a kid might be though. (depressive tendencies could've been coupled with violence that caused his time "away," but once again, there is not a lot to really hint at severe depressive behaviours).

There are also theories of foster care, if his mother died (which seems to be the most likely scenario with her). I don't think this is the case because we have seen a young Yeong-gi interact with a young Kousuke. The two brothers (and their parents) were aware of each other. There is also his nana.

I think the most likely scenario is that Yeong-gi, having been deeply affected by the events with his mother, developed violent behaviour, that resulted in legal trouble of some sort.

He was then sent somewhere as a result: either juvie or a rehabilitation centre of sorts for juvenile delinquents, or an asylum (due to aggression issues). Regardless, it must have been tied to a violent incident, resulting in legal action and detention and possibly a follow up mental health related thing (rehab/asylum).

Episode 112's confirmation:

There is a vague flashback alluding to a period of time where Yeong-gi was in trouble, specifically stating

"Poor kid. No one is going to want him."

"Why not?"

"...Behavioural and aggression issues".

This alludes both to Yeong-gi getting into trouble for hurting someone, AND for being guardian-less for a period of time (no one "wanting him" seems to reference foster care or adoption).

Later in the episode, Yeong-gi's classmates gossip and say:

"Wasn't he at a detention centre for a bit?"

"I thought he was in an asylum?"

"He was sent somewhere for sure..."