#i mean like jin guangshan is right there!!! this situation is HIS fault he's literally the rapist

[qiu-yan]

[chugs haterade]

actually the single worst jiggy take i've ever seen is the one blaming madame qin for the whole qin su incest marriage situation. what the actual fuck was that

[rejectedfables]

@kuntya​ tags on this post

I FEEL like you’re trying to wrap your head around the post, rather than flat out disagreeing with it. Here’s my recommended thinking points to help you out:

“He doesn’t have to obey his father or stay with the Jin Sect”

Jin Guangyao lives in a society wherein filial piety and filial respect/devotion is paramount. He is expected to be devoted to his parents and do as they say, and he will be publicly reviled if he doesn’t. Could he have simply never connected with his father? Sure, but he had no way of knowing how bad it would go, and once he DID connect it was too late to back out. (I’ll elaborate on this point later)

Jin Guangyao loved his mother, and her living AND dying wish was for him to be recognized by his father. Devotion to his mother’s wishes drives his devotion to his father. 

Jin Guangyao lives in a society that HATES HIM because of his mother’s profession, no matter what he does. If they hate him when he’s doing everything “appropriately” they would treat him even worse if he openly broke the rules of society.

Jin Guangyao spends his entire life feeling (and BEING) unsafe because of how people view him due to his mother’s profession. His actions, which would have been understood as necessary and good were any member of the gentry to have performed them, are questioned and condemned because they were his. 

When I say he spent his whole life being unsafe, I mean it. He went from the absolute bottom of society to the absolute top, and was NEVER safe. The entire society turned on him and he was literally killed WHILE he was holding the highest position in society. He feels unsafe, AND HE’S NOT WRONG.

Being Jin Guangshan’s son DID give him a modicum of protection that he didn’t otherwise have. It put him in a position to be abused by Madam Jin, and be reviled by people who knew his background, but it also offered him SOME protections he didn’t otherwise have. He is ONLY afforded these protections while following his father’s orders and displaying appropriate filial devotion. By the time he has been recognized as his father’s son, it is too late to escape the dangerous parts of this, but any wrong move would have revoked the protections. 

“He could just go be Lan Xichen’s live in boyfriend”

Even if you just mean “he could have just joined the Lan sect and Lan Xichen would have taken care of him”, please revisit the filial piety points, and additionally consider that after a certain point, Jin Guangyao knew damning secrets about Jin Guangshan. JGS would have reasonably considered JGY going to the Lan sect to be a threat, and might have retaliated against either JGY or even the Lan sect itself.

Jin Guangyao grew up watching sex workers be mistreated by the people they relied on, and was then repeatedly mistreated by people HE relied on (his superior officers, his father, his father’s wife, etc.). Relying on others for safety does not feel safe to Jin Guangyao, because historically it has not been. 

And if you DO mean literally being with Lan Xichen romantically/sexually: Jin Guangyao lives in a society that is broadly homophobic, so even if he WANTED to be a “stay at home boyfriend” that would have probably messed up Lan Xichen’s life/position AS WELL as his own, and Lan Xichen’s happiness matters a lot to him.

Jin Guangyao was trapped in a traumatizing marriage -- he WANTED to marry her right up until learning The Bad Information, but at that point if he’d backed out he’d have been condemning her to his own mother’s fate of being an unwed mother reviled by society AT BEST, so he just never told anyone or touched her again and swallowed how awful the situation was. He took that all on himself and told NO ONE. But he also loathed his father’s infidelity, and therefore may have resisted seeking his own happiness because it would have been unfair to both his wife (none of it was her fault) and any potential lover he might take. 

Also having an affair with Lan Xichen would potentially cause the same “JGS sees this as a threat” situation mentioned above, while he lived. 

The heads of two sects being romantically entangled can cause Political Problems. JGY already has so much trouble having anything he suggests or supports be taken seriously, and LXC is one of his best allies -- that would no longer be true if people could just say “Well, LXC is only agreeing with you because you’re fucking” as an easy way to dismiss anything they agree on.

Also, like... the guy has ambitions? He doesn’t WANT to be a house husband, he wants to IMPROVE SOCIETY, and that’s very cool and sexy of him actually? 

Saying essentially “Why didn’t he just settle for being a secret boytoy for a sect leader” is giving me extremely “Why didn’t he just become his mom? Why would he ever think he had any right to his father’s power? How dare he try to better his own life or anyone else’s” vibes. Please ponder this.

“Nie Mingjue is a cop and that makes him a moral authority” (yikes)

If laws are inconsistently enforced, then they are not about fairness or justice, they’re about enforcing classism. Also all cops are bastards, etc. so jot that down 

I’m being a tad facetious, yes, but also like... cops are NOT inherently morally upstanding, cops enforce oppression and cause terror, and if you are using them in a moral debate as pinnacles of virtue or beacons of morality then you are standing on a platform of crumbling sand.

Calling Nie Mingjue a cop IS big brained though, you’re absolutely right about that, he absolutely IS a cop, and Baxia is a metaphorical gun, welcome to my ted talk--

Nie Mingjue truly believes that his own actions are righteous while Jin Guangyao’s are criminal. This despite Jin Guangyao’s “crimes” being 1) calculated self defense after extensive mistreatment and 2) being a spy in a way that allowed him to win the war for everyone. 

(in the novel, by the way, he kills Wen Rouhan TO SAVE Nie Mingjue, and NMJ still manages to climb on a high horse about it because he doesn’t seem to understand how “being undercover” works. So chew on that.)

NMJ says “killing enemies on the battlefield doesn’t count” and JGY says “why not” and NMJ says “because I said so” because he’s a COP (again, being facetious, but the whole point is, they just have different perspectives on morality but only NMJ’s is given any credibility by society because society loves his cop ass, and hates JGY no matter what he does)

There’s something really interesting to explore about how NMJ’s WHOLE ISSUE is not really “you committed crimes” but rather “I have been faced with the reality that I CANNOT TELL when you’re being genuine vs duplicitous, and therefore I HAVE to ALWAYS assume that you are lying, because I will never know for sure, and what if I’m wrong--” and therefore THERE IS NOTHING Jin Guangyao can do that will EVER make ANYTHING right with NMJ. And that has nothing to do with his actual actions being criminal. 

Nie Mingjue gets to commit as many crimes and/or kill as many people as he wants, and he will always see it as justifiable because he understands why he did it, and that makes it okay. He doesn’t understand why Jin Guangyao does what he does, and that makes JGY’s actions unjustifiable to NMJ.

The things NMJ condemns JGY for were 1) killing his superior officer, who NMJ sent him to against his wishes and who was mistreating him and repeatedly sending him on suicide missions. JGY did this as calculated self defense. 2) being SNEAKY about killing that guy and not TURNING HIMSELF IN after. Calculated self defense would be dumb if you get executed right after. NMJ wouldn’t have been executed for this crime so he doesn’t get it, but JGY absolutely would have and knows it. 3) killing soldiers on Wen Rouhan’s orders while undercover. 4) Saying mean shit about NMJ’s dad while undercover. 5) Encouraging Huaisang to pursue art when NMJ only wanted him AT THE GUN RANGE at saber training. 6) Not letting NMJ kill Xue Yang, which would have been against JGS’s orders (and therefore would have BEEN a crime).

3,4 5, and 6 are, um. Legal? Like, those are all understandable even legally. 

1 and 2 are understandable morally, if you’re not a privileged classist cop.

Additional Thoughts

The reason the audience is biased towards Nie Mingjue’s perspective is because Wei Wuxian is biased towards Nie Mingjue’s perspective. We see everything that happened through a spell called EMPATHY, which 1) we’re told in canon is a risky and overwhelming spell that is not recommended. and 2) Whenever Wei Wuxian does uses Empathy, he ends up 10000% agreeing with the person he has EMPATHIZED with. We are shown Nie Mingjue’s perspective, which IS BIASED, via the spell that might as well be called BIAS. But even GIVEN that, by the end of the book Wei Wuxian himself thinks “Oh wow, what’s happening to Jin Guangyao right now (being turned into a villain for other’s moral convenience, then dying for it) is exactly what happened to me, this sucks”

Also: yes, Nie Mingjue is absolutely abusing him. In the Villainous Friends extra it’s implied that Jin Guangyao often has bruises, and the two culprits are Madam Jin and Nie Mingjue. Nie Mingjue is CONSTANTLY threatening his life, AND kicks him down a very long flight of stairs. These are not government approved punishments for convicted crimes (a situation that may or may not be morally right but would at least be legal), they’re one sworn brother violently taking out his anger and distrust on another in a longstanding abusive relationship. Jin Guangyao WAS NOT arrested. He was not “arrested by a cop” he was just being abused by someone who felt morally righteous in performing said abuse. Nie Mingjue ABSOLUTELY IS “~abusing~” him, as well as ABUSING him (no ~~s necessary).

If a cop spends YEARS threatening to murder an ex undercover agent, in private while off duty, because he doesn’t like what said undercover agent had to do while undercover, routinely physically assaulting him, and no one does anything to protect said undercover agent despite everyone knowing what’s going on-- at some point self defense DOES become appropriate. I’d personally say Jin Guanyao waited LONGER than he needed to to reach that point.

Hope this helps, ACAB, also I love your icon. Fuck yeah psyduck 

[plan-d-to-i]

1-people forget that in the universe MXTX created it is stated that YZY's situation is not normal, it is a patriarcal society so wives don't keept their names nor do whatever the fuck they want and they certainly don't humiliate their husband without even being told off, she's uniquely horrible and JFM is uniquely spineless. i always think JFM did love and worried about WWX but that last interaction he threw him under the bus to appease JC so his last memory would cement that he did love him

2- bc he didn't have more time to keep trying to make him understand and i always wonder how things with JC could have been fixed, easiest would be having had the balls to get rid off YZY early but if he divorced her (or got her killed lol) would JC have been different? or would he resent him even more for not protecting his mother? idk i feel like JFM was cursed from the moment he accepted to marry her and i can't help feeling bad for him

LOVE THIS. So I agree w like 99.9999% only my feelings over JFM change every five minutes. I never hate him but I vacillate wildly between i feel like he could've done more and ig he was himself a trapped in that situation so it's unfair to hold him fully accountable.

Madam Yu is an undeniably violently abusive woman who has married a kind, non-confrontational man. Most of JFM's flaws are only seen as 'flaws' instead of qualities because they framed as ineffective against someone as rank as her. I wouldn't even say he's spineless, because he does cancel YanLi's engagement for fear that it will make her as unhappy as his own marriage made him & effectively stands against his wife's demand on top of also passing on a very beneficial alliance w Jin Clan. (In fact Jin GuangShan is way more reluctant at the thought of taking this news to Madam Jin.)

Abusive relationships have their own dynamics so it's hard watching from the outside how JFM's resignation to his circumstances and avoidance are ineffective against, someone like YZY who materializes like a storm cloud to rain her venom down on everyone, especially WWX. Because WWX is not only bearing the scars piled on his back from YZY's whippings/'discipline' but he's trapped in a perpetual balancing act between JFM, YZY, jc and to an extent Yanli. He has to make JFM proud/see the value in keeping him around & at least in the beginning of his stay with the Jiangs we know he always tries to eat/take less than he needs, but he can't be so good & talented that jc feels threatened or set Madam Yu off. At the same time Yanli rewards him with soup and affection when he takes the fall for jc his first day there. This definitely establishes a pattern wherein WWX sees his usefulness within the Jiang sect in diverting punishment for the failings of those around him, especially jc, to himself. She also repeatedly asks him to just accept jc’s shifty behavior as a representative of his affection... bc she's a huge fucking enabler, which probably doesn’t bode well for how she’s come to interpret affection.

As for YZY she's the only one who paints herself a victim, when it's clear she's the instigator of the conflicts!!!! She’s literally the bad guy, boss, fly in the ointment etc. There's a lot of gaslighting in her interactions with JFM so I'm confused as to why people think that of everyone she's the reliable narrator or some poor sad victim of an uninterested husband??? She clearly does as she pleases in Lotus Pier, yells at JFM in front of Servants, accuses him of fathering a child with his friend's wife, she whips the head disciple for imagined infractions with a spiritual weapon! and pretty much just chills w her ladies when she isn't busy spewing venom wherever she goes. WITH NO REPRECUSSIONS. If JFM had been a woman and YZY the man I'm sure all her cringe stans would be frothing at the mouth to drag her(yzy) to hell by the balls.

People love to accuse JFM of favoritism towards WWX or showing him more affection. To me it's clear that for JMF, WWX is simply an extension of his father/friend & ultimately a subordinate in the Jiang household. JFM clearly cares about jc, it's not his fault that jc doesn't get it, and it's not his fault that YZY is always poisoning their relationship. JFM for his part is still trying to guide jc towards how he's meant to occupy his future position as Clan leader, quite gently too considering jiang cheng was berating WWX for saving their allies... I’m sure if anything JFM hoped WWX’s morality and sense of right and wrong would rub off a bit on jc & why wouldn't you want someone immensely talented and loyal and devoted to the well being of your son and family around?? JFM did a nice thing getting WWX off the streets but that doesn’t mean he also didn’t think WWX could be a good friend to jc who when WWX is first brought to Lotus Pier has ZERO friends, and was likely to remain with zero friends considering his personality. Only someone like WWX who is forced by circumstances, & his kind nature & gratitude to the Jiangs would be in a position to befriend him. So I think it's laughable to say JFM favors WWS when WWX was the sacrificial lamb friend/pet JFM gifted his son. Not to mention that the only person who says JFM doesn't properly value jc is again YZY. Ofc jc takes to like a duck to water because he's cut from the same cloth as his rancid mother and it's much easier to blame WWX for all his failings and misfortunes than to take a good hard look at himself or ever take responsibility for anything. jc doesn't do self reflection. There isn't any scenario where jc would have been a good person. He's lacking basic human empathy. His view of the world has him as its center. He can only relate to things as they concern and affect him and he doesn't even possess a modicum of honor that might keep such selfish impulses at bay.

To conclude, I totally agree. JFM cursed himself the moment he let himself be coerced by YZY and her Clan into marrying a person whose character and values he knew ran so deeply counter to his and his Clan's own. Sure enough under the control of jiang cheng, the original spirit in which Jiang clan was established is gone. It's a place devoid of warmth that people are scared to visit lest they be confronted w the screams of people being flayed alive.

[three--rings]

ngl i find it VERY odd that you read the escalation of violence at nightless city as being wwx's fault even PRIOR to jyl's death. like, post-jyl? sure, he activates the seal, that part is his fault. but self-defence isn't an escalation, even fatal self-defence, and it is also super odd that you assign blame to anyone but jyl (and the jins, working in the bg to design the situation) for her own death. she makes a decision there! the whole point of that reveal is that wwx /didn't'/ kill her!

I mean, you can say his actions are self-defense, but...his life is not in any real immediate danger.  He is standing on top of the palace, they are on the ground.  His cultivation is so high that a normal fatal wound would heal in a few hours, he tells us several times.  He mentions himself at Nightless City that he’s taken on as many as 5000 cultivators single-handedly during the Sunshot campaign.

He does not have to go to Nightless City.  He does not have to confront the cultivators there.  He could also, once they turn violent to him (after he kills someone, the brother of the person who kills JYL btw, so clearly this is tied to his own actions) he could simply leave. 

I’m not saying his actions aren’t understandable, that there aren’t reasons he does what he does, but he does still carry responsibility FOR them.  He should know that using his cultivation carries a risk of losing control because he just lost control at Qiongqi Path. People have been cautioning him that he might lose control of it for a long time.  But he calls up an army to kill all the cultivators there.  This includes the Jiang Sect and Jiang Cheng, by the way because unlike CQL we don’t have any indication that he commanded his corpses to spare them. 

I mean, seriously, let’s not downplay this moment.  Because it’s the first time he’s turned his powers against his former allies, former friends, former sect.  It seems like those with strong cultivation are generally not in any real danger, since all the sect leaders survive, but certainly others are dying and being maimed.  I mean, to be very simple about it, that night WWX set out to kill JC, LXC, NMJ, JGY, JGS, and thousands of others who aren’t specifically named as being present.  I’m pretty sure he intends to kill even Lan Wangji.  And I don’t support MOST of those characters being killed.  Jin Guangshan can die very slowly and painfully.  But the others are all characters I love very much and I would not call WWX justified or just for killing them.  

Him ending the violence or not engaging in it at all is surely possible, in fact JYL asks him to stop just before she dies and he orders his corpses to stand down, right before the cultivator of the brother he killed goes to stab him and she throws herself in front of him.

Her choosing to die instead of Wei Wuxian is her choice, but that does not mean she’s the reason it happens.  She didn’t cause the battle that is going on, she didn’t give this person a motive to kill Wei Wuxian.  Her literal last wish is that Wei Wuxian stop fighting (and presumably surrender?) She is trying to deescalate the violence.  Her message to Wei Wuxian is that he needs to calm down and stop escalating things.

Wei Wuxian’s justification for his actions that night are that he was attacked first.  Both at Qiongqi Way and that night at Nightless City.  But the cultivator’s justifications are exactly the same.  He “cursed” Jin Zixun first.  His “tool” Wen Ning killed 30 people when he turned himself in. (Not knowing neither of those is true) He killed the archer.  The boy (”boy” specifically we are told) who kills JYL says the same thing.  He killed my brother.  And after JYL dies WWX kills a bunch of them in retribution.  It’s a never ending cycle of vengeance and WWX is, at the time, part of it.  He feels himself justified by the other’s actions. 

What WWX in his second life has learned is that “an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.”  He doesn’t seek retribution or vengeance for the wrong done to him either by the cultivation world or JGY and SS.  He seeks to expose it to prevent further harm, sure, but he doesn’t demand punishment.

The message of the second siege of the Burial Mounds is exactly this.  That there are legitimately wrongs on both sides.  But that continuing to seek vengeance is ultimately only going to hurt further innocents, including the next generation. 

JGY says that he did arrange the confrontation at Qiongqi Path but that eventually there was going to be an incident like it between WWX and someone in the cultivation world, and WWX agrees.  Because of his choices, including in large part the heavy use of demonic cultivation and the creation and use of the Yin Tiger Seal, he was going to get into a fight and he was going to lose control.  He made himself a target and he made himself a danger.  He also could have mitigated some of those consequences by being less arrogant, being more aware of politics, being more open with others and less inclined to escalating interpersonal conflict. 

You could argue that he couldn’t do any of those things because of the nature of the trauma he was dealing with and the effects it had on his personality and I think you’d have a strong case.  But that doesn’t mean that those things weren’t still mistakes.  Or that they weren’t wrong. 

I’m just going to make a final note that I’m going to try to stop discussing this now, because I really, really need to be working on my Bang fic instead of writing meta.  I feel like I’ve said what I need to say but also that I’m fundamentally looking at things a different way from a lot of people and we’re not going to get much of anywhere by continuing to argue it.  And this is all very, very distracting.

ETA: And if you want to continued to send me asks saying “You are still wrong” like that’s great but they’re going to be deleted.

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

1- you know JC stans always try to deflect claiming LQR LXC LWJ and NMJ are all equally at fault bc they didn't stand for trhe wens either but JC and WWX are literally the only two people who know the truth about the wen sibs and he decided not to tell anyone so the public has no means of knowing everything they did and risked for him, they literally committed treason to save the jiang sect and protect them from the wen army but in the eyes of the public they are known as loyal disciples to WRH-

Thank you for the question anon!

Relevant passages in regards to this issue posted first since a lot of it gets very misconstrued with what blame lies where with the Sect Leaders before the events when it came to the massacre at Nightless City and the deaths of the Wen Remnants. This is not necessarily clean cut after the fallout with Jin Zixuan and Jin Zixun's deaths. This is also still with the underlying plot of Jin Guangshan aiming for the Yin Hu Fu. There is a lot of political intrigue that goes ignored with this by manipulation of the Jin Sect and Jiang Cheng being blinded by his own jealousy.

“… Four inspectors were harmed. Around fifty of the remaining Wen Sect members escaped. After Wei WuXian led them into Burial Mound, he summoned hundreds of fierce corpses to patrol the base of the mountain. Our people still can’t get any further.”

“… Four inspectors were harmed. Around fifty of the remaining Wen Sect members escaped. After Wei WuXian led them into Burial Mound, he summoned hundreds of fierce corpses to patrol the base of the mountain. Our people still can’t get any further.”

When he finished, silence filled the Golden Pavilion.

Jiang Cheng only spoke after a few moments, “What he did was indeed a bit too much. Sect Leader Jin, I apologize to you in place of him. If there’s any way at all to help the situation, please let me know. I’ll definitely compensate for things however I can.”

What Jin GuangShan wanted, however, wasn’t his apology or his compensation, “Sect Leader Jiang, at first, for your sake, the LanlingJin Sect didn’t intend on saying anything. However, some of these inspectors weren’t from the Jin Sect. There were a few from other sects as well. This makes it…”

Jiang Cheng’s brows were knitted. He rubbed the vein that throbbed at his temple and soundlessly took in a deep breath, “… I apologize to all of the Sect Leaders. Everyone, I’m afraid you don’t know that the Wen cultivator whom Wei WuXian wanted to save was called Wen Ning. We owe him and his sister Wen Qing gratitude for what happened during the Sunshot Campaign.”

Nie MingJue, “You owe them gratitude? Isn’t the QishanWen Sect the ones who caused the YunmengJiang Sect’s annihilation?”

Within these few years, Jiang Cheng insisted on working late into the night every day. That day, just as he decided to rest early, he had to rush to Koi Tower overnight because of the thundering news. He’d been suppressing some anger under his fatigue since the beginning. With his natural competitiveness, he was already quite agitated since he had to apologize to other people. When he heard Nie MingJue mention the incident of his sect again, hatred sprouted within him.

The hatred was directed at not only everyone who was seated in this room, but also Wei WuXian.

Passage 2:

Using the atmosphere, Jin GuangShan turned to Jiang Cheng, “He’s been plotting for a while to go to Burial Mound, hasn’t he? After all, with his skills, it wouldn’t be too hard to set up a sect of his own. And so, he used this as a chance to leave the Jiang Sect, intending to do whatever he pleases in the bright skies outside. You rebuilt the YunmengJiang Sect with so much work. He’s got a few controversial traits in him to begin with, and still he doesn’t restrain himself, stirring up so much trouble for you. He doesn’t care about you at all.”

Jiang Cheng pretended to stand his ground, “That probably isn’t that case. Wei WuXian has been like this ever since he was young. Even my father couldn’t do anything about him.”

Jin GuangShan, “Even FengMian-xiong couldn’t do anything about him, huh?” He chuckled a few times, “FengMian-xiong just favored him.”

Hearing the words ‘favors him’, the muscles beside the corners of Jiang Cheng’s mouth twitched.

Jin GuangShan continued, “Sect Leader Jiang, you’re not like your father. It’s just been a couple of years since the reestablishment of the YunmengJiang Sect, precisely when you should be displaying your power. And he doesn’t even know to avoid suspicions. What would the Jiang Sect’s new disciples think if they saw him? Don’t tell me you’d let them see him as their role model and look down on you?”

He spoke one sentence after another, striking the iron while it was still hot. Jiang Cheng spoke slowly, “Sect Leader Jin, that’s enough. I’ll go to The Burial Mounds and deal with this.”

Here the sect leaders were aware of the Wen Sect remnants as prisoners of war and saw it as a justifiable reason to keep the remaining Wens imprisoned regardless of age status etc. When Jiang Cheng is asked by Nie Mingjue for clarification on the matter of the debt owed by the Wen siblings it is deflected by Jin Guangshan and Jin Guangyao with clever wordplay to rile everyone up. This leaves those who either asked for more information, Lan Xichen who is shutdown by not having enough information by the majority and Nie Mingjue distracted by his hate of the Wens already, and Mianmian and Lan Wangji who argued that Wei Wuxian was protecting innocents and was not trying to cause a coup ignored as being irrelevant opinions. Wei Wuxian is eventually labelled a defector and danger due to Jiang Cheng exasperating what they had actually planned in the staged fight.

After this several months pass until Lan Wangji comes to tell Wei Wuxian of Jiang Yanli's marriage in a week's time. Several days later the Jiang siblings arrive with the same news and Jiang Yanli is the one to extend a peace branch to try keeping the three connected with the courtesy naming or Jin Ling. Almost a year's time later Wei Wuxian is in fact invited to the one-month celebration as another peace branch by Jin Zixuan who was the one to extend the offer. Jin Guangshan, Jin Zixun and Jin Guangyao planned the murder of Wei Wuxian in Qiongqi Pass against Jin Zixuan's knowledge. This leads to the mess of his murder and Wei Wuxian being hunted down as well as all of the remaining Wens on order of Jin Guangshan in retaliation after Wen Qing is killed as the remaining leader of the Wens and Wen Ning secretly suppressed. This leads to days later to the Pledge Conference at the city which holds Jin Zixuan's body and Jiang Yanli who is there to keep the death vigils (Shou Ling) as family. It's also why her and Madam Jin are wearing the white robes when Wei Wuxian sees them and by bad luck comes across the sect leaders pact when he tries to flee.

After the the wine had seeped into the dirt, Jin GuangShan stated, “No matter the sect, no matter the surname—this cup of wine is to the soldiers who have died.”

Nie MingJue, “May their souls live on.”

Lan XiChen, “Rest in peace.”

Jiang Cheng, however, still had on a darkened expression. He didn’t say anything even after he poured the wine.

Afterward, Jin GuangYao walked out from the LanlingJin Sect’s array and presented with both hands a square box made of black iron. Jin GuangShan took the box with one hand and raised it high in the air, shouting, “Here lies the ashes of the Wen Sect’s remnants!”

After he spoke, he sent forth his spiritual energy and shattered the box with his bare hand. The iron box broke into pieces, and white dust drifted alongside the cold wind.

A scattering of the ashes!

A series of cheers exploded through the crowd. Jin GuangShan raised his hands, signaling for the people to be quiet and listen to him talk. When the cheers slowly died down, he continued, raising his voice, “Tonight, the ones whose ashes had been scattered were the two leaders of the Wen Sect’s remnants. And tomorrow! It will be the rest of the Wen-dogs and—the YiLing Laozu, Wei Ying!”

Suddenly, a low laugh interrupted his grand speech. The laugh was too untimely, sounding both stark and jarring. In unison, the crowd turned to look at where the sound came from.

The Palace of Sun and Flames was a rather magnificent palace. A total of twelve ridges made up its roof, and at the end of each ridge were eight heavenly beasts. Yet, right now, the people realized that on one of those ridges, there were nine. The laugh from before came from over there!

The extra beast shifted slightly. The next moment, a boot and a corner of black clothes dangled down from the roof, swaying softly.

Everyone placed their hand onto their sword hilt. Jiang Cheng’s pupils shrunk. Blue veins lined the back of his hand.

Jin GuangShan was overcome with both shock and hatred, “Wei Ying! How dare you show yourself here!”

The person opened their mouth to speak. What came out was indeed Wei WuXian’s voice, but he spoke in a strange tone, “Why should I dare not show myself here? Do you people here even add up to three thousand? Don’t forget that back in the Sunshot Campaign, let alone three thousand, I’ve fought against five thousand on my own before. And by appearing here, haven’t I granted your wish? No need for you to come all the way to my home tomorrow to scatter my ashes.”

A few of the QingheNie Sect’s disciples died in the hands of Wen Ning as well. Nie MingJue spoke coldly, “What arrogance.”

Wei WuXian, “Haven’t I always been arrogant? Sect Leader Jin, how does it feel, having slapped yourself in the face? Who was the one that said he’d let the matter go if the Wen siblings went to Koi Tower and gave themselves up? And who was the one that just said he’d scatter my ashes and the ashes of the rest of the Wen Sect’s remnants tomorrow?”

Jin GuangShan, “Let’s consider things as they stand! At Qiongqi Path, you slaughtered over a hundred of the LanlingJin Sect’s disciples—this is one thing. You made Wen Ning kill at Koi Tower—this is another…”

Wei WuXian, “Then let me ask you, Sect Leader Jin, at Qiongqi Path, who was the one being ambushed? And who was the one to kill? Who was the main schemer? And who was the one being schemed against? In the end, just who was the one that came to provoke me first?”

Keep in mind none of the other sect leaders were privy to the scheme between Jin Guangshan, Jin Guangyao and Jin Zixun. And they believe they are certainly fighting off a crazed Wei Wuxian and what they think are his fodder Wens meant for corpses. After this Wei Wuxian desperately fights against Lan Wangji who is trying to calm him down before it's too late which is unsuccessful leading to Jiang Yanli also trying to calm him down enough to get him away and talk some sense to get him out of there to run and get to the Wens. After her death he mentally blacks out and Lan Wangji is left trying to take him away to safety close enough to Burial Mounds. Lan Wangji then fights off his elders as Lan Xichen gathered the Lans to find them. Immediately after this is in sequestered secrecy Lan Wangji is punished. Lan Xichen presumably stays with his own brother while Lan Qiren is the acting Sect Leader for the actual Siege that the other three are part of as support. That leaves Jin Guangshan with the ulterior motive of getting the Yin Hu Fu, Jiang Cheng who wants revenge for the death of Jiang Yanli, and Nie Mingjue left to think he is killing what he considers disgraceful Wens.

So, in short, each of them had different motivations for actually being there, and different accounts for those reasons. The Jins for more power, Jiangs for revenge, Nies for justice and the Lans in solidarity. And the fault of it isn't meted out equally as all had misunderstandings and manipulated by Jin Guangshan's pull to each of their morals as cultivation sects. In the end each of the four were there to kill the Wens and Wei Wuxian aside from Lan Wangji and arguably Jiang Yanli when she was caught up trying to get Wei Wuxian to run.