#i mean how can anyone even think of shipping either of them with anyone else | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

korereapers · 11 months

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I collaborated with the amazing @laxi0v0 for a cute little event we made in the scriddler server. This is Laxi's art about the fic I wrote, and HONESTLY HONESTLY i couldn't have asked for a better and more supportive partner. Her art is way better than I would ever dream on writing and honestly, Laxi, I'm so glad it was you bc we vibe a lot about our tastes w this ship.

The fic will be on ao3 later, but here, for you guys, before anyone else:

Jonathan takes a sip out his mug, nicely decorated with a pumpkin, the recipe of the pumpkin spice coffee perfected by him for decades. It’s warm, it tastes like fall, and it’s the start of what Jonathan considers to be the best time of the year.

It started like a small tradition for him, when he finally left home and started studying to become the psychologist he wanted to be. Halloween was to be celebrated, especially for freaks like him, abhorrent creatures that made great-granny’s skin crawl. He was proud of that, in a way. It was his moment, it still is, after all of these years, because he is still a freak, he belongs to this weather and these colors more than he belongs anywhere else. He belongs between ocher leaves and the smell of fog, the rain starting to fall over Gotham, only to leave when it’s summer again. The start of his kingdom, of the time he rules over.

Or it would be, if Edward wasn’t so adamant about going to freaking Starbucks.

He doesn’t get it, not really. A malnourished child from Georgia, surrounded by overworked kids that serve them with the most forced smile when Edward asks, yet again, for the infamous Pumpkin Spice Latte. With ice. Oatmeal milk. Whipped cream.

Jonathan wants to die.

“How is this even supposed to be spooky?”

Edward rolls his eyes, green contact lenses barely moving, as if they were starting to get glued to his irises. Which should be a bad sign, but Jonathan is, yet again, not his boyfriend’s keeper.

“Not everything has to be spooky when this time arrives, Jonathan.”

He kind of dislikes it, when he calls him by his full name. He calls him Jon when they are alone, when they are intimate, when their bodies or their hearts are entwined. He doesn’t like when he calls him Jonathan, because that means that Edward thinks he is being too bitter, complaining too much, a complete prick.

It’s not that he dislikes the stupid PSL, either, but it feels like desecrating one of his oldest traditions, and he feels as if he were betraying himself.

“Don’t you like my recipe, then? Do you dislike it so much we have to come here every single week?”

The cashier smiles at them awkwardly as Edward pays for their order, tipping the young lady generously.

“Do you have to take everything personally? I started getting here when I finally had my own money to spend. Is it that hard to just enjoy it, when I want to share it with you?”

Oh. A tradition. Jonathan distractedly drinks from his thematic glass, but says nothing.

They are really different, Edward and himself. To Edward, spending time and money like this… is almost a love language. It’s a lifestyle that he works hard to keep, having dinner in expensive places, getting coffee every time he can. Sharing it with him, because Jonathan is important to him.

Jonathan may be unable to feel fear, and his brain may be as damaged as Edward’s heart, but guilt still crawls its way into his psyche. It still makes him feel uneasy, because he cares, because he understands the feeling, because he wants to share his recipe with Edward because of the exact same reason.

He touches Edward’s hand when they sit, an apology he doesn’t utter but that can be felt in his irradiated orange eyes.

“I like it when you share time and nourishment with me.”

Edward’s expression softens, a glint of blue under the bright green contact lenses.

“Wow, when did you get emotionally aware?” his mouth says instead, and for a moment, Jonathan understands the Bat and his compulsion to punch him in the mouth.

“I’m a psychologist, Edward.”

“... right,” he mutters, his voice cheeky, still clearly a little mad, his thoughts loud. Jonathan loves that about him, his expression when he is deep in thought, when he is trying to understand something. A puzzle, a new riddle in their lives. “That recipe of yours is really important to you, too, if I’m guessing correctly.”

Jonathan nods, his eyes still on Edward’s, who seems to be feeling a little bit too shy to look at him, knowing that they are having an emotionally vulnerable moment.

“It is. I made it myself and… I want to share it with you.”

Edward does smile a little at that, his voice softer when he speaks.

“Let me try it later. I want to give it the thought and recognition it deserves.”

Jonathan’s thumb caresses Edward’s hand, his smile contagious. Like a well concocted virus.

“I would love to.”

—-------------------------------------------

Edward is pretty sure that he is (very unluckily, by the way) dating the man with the poorest taste in the world. Jonathan seems to think that he is hilarious, dressed in his usual costume, even the needles oozing toxin as he sits quietly on the couch.

There is a thing about him that Edward has always loved: how he becomes a different person when the mask is on.

They used to talk about it, back in the day, when they used to share a room in the Asylum. Jonathan felt naked without his mask, his expression dull and almost tense, devoid of what made him himself. Edward, at least, has managed to make those expressions change, the real Jon emerging from behind whatever aloof façade he tries to put on to protect himself, to pretend he is a regular human being and not the freak that makes his heart melt.

He must surely be smiling behind the mask, then. Edward can almost feel him vibrating in excitement, like a small child, and in a way, he kind of is. A reclaimed childhood, the enjoyment of a joy he wasn’t allowed to feel. He can understand that.

Still, the poorest fucking choice of a Halloween costume.

“Really, Jon? The most original idea, I have to say.”

Jonathan looks at him, and he can feel his piercing eyes even behind the mask, the expression of a predator, so dangerous it makes his face flush a little. Birds of a feather, both of them. The Scarecrow sighs, deeply, the sound distorted behind the mask. It’s creepy, he has to admit, which is probably… kind of the point.

“Like you’re one to talk, Herlock Sholmes.”

Edward gasps, indignant. His Poirot costume is nothing to be laughed at.

“Excuse me?!”

He can almost feel the smile behind the mask, because Edward knows him, he knows Jonathan is an avid reader, he knows the difference between Agatha Christie and Arthur Conan Doyle, for fuck's sake. He is doing this on purpose, to rile him up. He always is.

Edward's mind goes somewhere else, somewhere private. Somewhere where he is indeed riled up, and Jonathan touches his cheek, looking up at his face from behind the mask, Edward sitting on his lap, while long, dangerous hands go up his thigh, eyes hungry-

The doorbell rings. Edward goes back to reality, Jonathan's eyes on him as he moves towards the entrance, the tips of his ears surely blushing.

When he opens the door, he has to look down, because damn, kids sure look tinier these days. He cannot remember to be this short, this innocent, this…

Happy.

He feels Jonathan's chin on his shoulder, almost jumping in place because the man is silent like a ghost, no matter how eager he is to take part in the holiday.

One of the kids is wearing a Batman costume, and Edward tries his hardest not to roll his eyes, with better or worse success. Another kid is dressed as Harley Quinn, what makes him wonder if these parents are in need of any kind of psychological help. The youngest, a child dressed as Wonder Woman, looks at them with badly hidden mischief, and Edward feels tempted to just close the door.

"Trick or treat!" They ask in unison, and before Edward can answer, Jonathan drops a bag in front of them, full of who knows what, but the kids don't ask.

Such blissful ignorance.

"Thank you Mister Holmes! Mister Scarecrow!" The girl dressed up as Batman says, and the one dressed as Wonder Woman purses her lips in disgust.

"Poirot's moustache isn't like that. You're a fake."

The kid dressed as Harley Quinn laughs in response, taking the bag of candy and running away with Wonder Woman. The one dressed as Batman follows who Edward believes to be her sisters, and he blissfully thanks that they don't have any children.

"Please tell me the bag is full of drugs."

Jonathan chuckles a little, his arms around Edward's waist.

"Hershey's," is everything he says, his sudden lack of malice and evil intent a headache for Edward.

"Oh, Jon. Are you going soft on me?"

Jonathan's smile can be felt in the air, a predator, a killer awaiting their next victim.

"Me? Oh, darlin'..." he whispers against Edward's ear, his distorted voice making him shudder in anticipation. "Never."

#scriddler #my stuff #and laxi's #dc #riddler #scarecrow #edward nygma #edward nigma #edward nashton #jonathan crane #i love you laxi.... really

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weirdmageddon · 3 months

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why i think aradia and john work so well

(with some stuff i’ve been wanting to yap about for ages)

have you guys ever given arajohn / johnradia (idk if its popular enough to even have a standardized ship name) any thought …? i know it seems kind of out of left field. i’ve considered it and i think its. really really good. i have a bunch of thoughts to unpack. come join me. and maybe grab a snack or something because i didn’t realize how much i'd actually have to say about this

(fantastic art by skeletood)

the other day i made a tweet that did rather well where i said, “john and aradia shouldve talked more. its so simple but i like how she actually earnestly answers his questions. so many characters in this comic are so mean to john for just wanting to know more give him a break”

putting it out there now im not big about shipping for the sake of shipping. there needs to be real chemistry. i need to sense that as a reason why two characters would potentially be a good influence on each other. i never knew why i was always so obstinate about this because it’s fictional and not materially hurting anyone, but i think it might be because i’m not sure how to justify it or explain it if not.

i strongly believe john and aradia would have had it made out for them if circumstances allowed it. (what i mean by “ship” or “johnradia” extends to any kind of interpersonal dynamic, even if just a good friendship. it doesnt even have to be romantic, just some sort of dynamic with them.)

unfortunately aradia originally committed herself to staying out of trolling the kids over their timelines, so john and aradia never talked until year 3 on the ship in the dream bubbles but they never had a truly proper one-on-one without outside meddling. i think if john knew aradia better and her story beforehand, she had more time to explain herself and her history, he wouldnt have been unsettled. and also of course if his experience with the trolls didn’t suck so bad because he already had expectations for how antagonizing most of them were.

i found people’s sentiments about johnradia elsewhere too. i remembered that they were both on the song art for ascend, and searched ao3 to see how many fics have been written to gauge how substaintial it’s been in the homestuck fandom. only 17 of them turned up. but the people who do talk about it are either curious about it or really do like it, and that interested me.

clearly it’s pretty niche character relationship to be depicted in any fanwork and i can understand why. despite being so small, from what ive seen it seems universally agreed upon to be nice. i haven’t seen a single person object to it. what ive seen falls into two categories: “wow i didnt think about this before but i actually dig it” or “(starving) finally some good fucking food”

the pattern im seeing is that people think it’s “random”, but i disagree. there is something there substantiating it even if they’re unable to articulate it.

the fanfic these comments are from is chronology of wind. that fic is really, really good, and sadly unfinished. i have more abstract reasons to believe why aradia and john would be good in theory, so actually seeing someone else actually make something with them helped me read it in action, to get a more tangible feel of the dynamic beyond what we have in canon.

i wouldn’t normally make claims about a relationship with regard to homestuck canon by looking at their relationship in a fanfic, because i think you all know by now i am very nitpicky about accurate characterization, and it does not go unnoticed by me when people get it right because for some reason it feels like a one in a million thing (even though it really shouldn’t be?). so this was a special case. the tone was completely consistent with canon. this fic is so in-character i’d basically consider it an extension of canon. to me it’s like they took the same characters and plopped them into this scenario to see how they’d interact. guys… i love that stuff so much. i love fanfiction or fanworks that depict realistic extensions of canon and stays true to the energy and tone of the source, but deepens it. there isn’t enough of it imo. i want to see more of it.

anyway, what i read of their conversations in that fic basically aligned with what i was thinking in my head about what i’d expect it to be like. i was able to compare how aradia and john talked to how aradia and the other characters interacted, their comparative attitudes towards each other—how they’re treated by others compared to how they treat each other.

have you noticed john and aradia’s communication values are both based on sincerity, being in the proper know, treating people fairly, and thanklessly taking on the necessary work that “must be done” in order to have what they really want — a good time that feels meaningful? and they accomplish this without any adjustment in how they talk to each other.

john is always subtly (or not-so-subtly) asking the people around him to answer him soberly and to the point so he knows whats going on and what that means for what his options are. he needs to know to what end he will be applying his absurd energetic drive into making shit happen. aradia honors his time before john can even become uncomfortable with the amount of time being eaten up by conversation. contrast this with rose, who seems to go on for a while with prose-like conversational adornments. in dire situations that need rapid explanation and definitive answers so he knows what to do, this is really the last thing he needs. aradia doesnt waste john’s time. she answers all his questions, and does it politely to boot. his time talking to her doesn't feel wasted.

john's impatience with this sort of nonsense is also why i can’t see something like dirkjohn working out, for example. to me it feels like @entropicbias also deeply understands this on some level because i literally couldn’t have demonstrated what i mean by it any better myself than that. i'm gonna have to to hit him up about how much i genuinely respect that like tbh hes one of the few i absolutely trust to handle writing and depicting these characters in situations and their interpersonal dynamics. and also care about doing their characterization justice as much as me.

of course people are still entitled to like whatever they like, ship whatever they want to. i dont care. but i just don’t think it would work from the perspective of the minds of the canon characters, how they generally think and approach situations. and i can already tell people might ask me how do i know this? what makes me an expert? i’m not more than anyone else is (although i have been called a "characterization expert" from my friends), but i do know that i can pick up on the energetic chemistry between people, including characters, honestly precognitively, without even thinking? like if it’s stiff or tense or awkward, if people aren’t free to express themselves uninhibitedly, if they feel unsafe or uncomfortable. i can sense this almost instantly. it’s something that’s a visceral feeling in my body i cant express and i have to rationalize it after the fact. like i’m doing now in fact writing this big analysis.

> listen to me talk about my special interest boy

for the next section to make sense, you probably want to read this post. i initially started writing it within this post to explain but there was so much brewing i had to explain the context that it turned into something i wanted to post on its own terms.

> okaaaaaayyyyy i read all that

thank you, really. my main point is using the conceptual tools provided by this system to expIain why aradia and john feel nice together and why i’ve seen people positively perceive the idea of a relationship between them even if it seems “random”.

framing them in this system, it wouldn’t be random! there’s a good reason they seem to fit nicely. this is because john and aradia have complementary forms of information metabolism. information metabolism is talked about in this section.

Jung’s psychic types are the types of cognition, or intelligence. But it would probably be easiest to call them types of IM [information metabolism], since the main difference between the types of people lies in their exchange of information with the external world.

Aushra Augusta, Commentary on Jung’s Typology and Introduction to Information Metabolism

aradia megido’s type of information metabolism (otherwise known as a TIM) is LII. john egbert’s TIM is ESE.

aradia and john’s types are duals. you can read more about what that entails here. in theory, their interactions would reflect the duality dynamic. reading chronology of wind, that one really in-character fic that explored their dynamic made me excited because they do!

michael pierce gave an overview of his impression of the characteristics of this intertype dynamic. despite only rough knowledge in socionics while he wrote this, his understanding of duality was spot on to me from my experience and others and i wanted to share it here. (fittingly, i believe he is also LII.)

Now we have the famous duality relationship: in a nutshell, this role is characterized by two traits: 1) a very close psychological distance or intimacy, and 2) a great ease of interacting with each other. It is sometimes described how meeting one's dual can be the event of a lifetime, because it inspires aspects in each party's character that they had never expressed before: the pair may even drop out of society for a time in order to focus on just each other, and to explore themselves through interaction with each other. The curious thing in this relationship is that these parties are rather different in outlook, and when they are not actually interacting as potential friends it's probably more likely for them to dislike or mistrust each other because of how different they are. […] However, when they are able to interact normally, it is a strange and wonderful discovery to realize that the interaction is unexpectedly smooth and invigorating. It's hard for people to describe, but as I understand it: while both parties recognize their differences on the surface, these differences are created by a root structure that coincides perfectly with each other, so that the differences on the surface are entirely complementary and cause no friction at all.

it’s also meaningful to consider that the structure of my own psyche is LII as well. so i’ve got a bit of a bias towards aradia and john.. not in the sense that what i actually say about them is personally biased, but that the bias is moreso my personal attention to people and characters of these two types in particular to see how my own experiences are reflected in them. i really do feel of a reflection of my own thought and work process in aradia and in the more abstract sense she is like an extension of myself. when people say they like aradia as a character i get secondhand joy from that because shares certain specific traits with me. of course i am still my own person though.

these are some of the most apt profiles i've found for these types at a glance. again, think about these characters as you read these descriptions. [from here (ESE / LII)]

ESE (Ethical-sensory extrovert) - john

The trademark quality of this type is a focus on socializing and guiding social situations and interactions so that the people involved can have fun and enjoy themselves. ESEs are typically in the middle of what is happening socially and know about the latest events and what people think and feel about them. They are skilled at bringing people together in fun and interesting ways and making everyone feel actively involved. Their friends know them as people who love life and feel most at home in social situations surrounded by other fun people. In their pursuit of fun-oriented and stimulating social interactions, ESEs typically neglect to structure their own thought processes and views in a way that would help them know exactly what they think and why. They are receptive to others’ attempts to help them introduce more structure and logical consistency in their life and thinking processes. They gravitate most to people who open up to fun and emotional interaction easily, yet are also skilled at systematizing thoughts and views and explaining ideological matters.

LII (Logical-intuitive introvert) - aradia

The trademark quality of this type is a focus on logical, structured thought and generating true assertions and views. LIIs are typically strict thinkers who are concerned that everything fits together in a logical way. They are skilled at understanding, generating, and criticizing logical arguments and instilling their views in the people around them. Their friends know them as people with well-organized thoughts and opinions who know what they think and can elucidate their ideas to others. In their pursuit of logical understanding, LIIs typically neglect their external social interactions and activities that would help them lighten up and experience a connection with other people. They are receptive to others’ attempts to create these fun and lighthearted situations for them. They gravitate most to people who are interested in their opinions and understanding of things, but are also skilled at organizing social interactions and creating a sense of emotional unity.

ive recently consciously experienced the feeling of duality for the first time since i've been communicating with my mom's high school classmate, and it is definitely a real thing. i even remember mom pointing out she noticed when we were all talking on the phone over a year ago that i perked up whenever he said stuff. here is how i explained it:

its bonkers how only once i experience something for myself i’m able to explain in detail what makes it so great based on what my impressions about it were because i tend to have a peculiar way of describing the qualities of an experience. my specialty is deep precision in my analogies for what it’s like. so now i can tell you how conversations with your dual feel… heres the status report. it’s weightless. its so strange. like the topic conversation stretches into infinity that you can pick right back up at any time. it’s hazy and unfocused but still pleasant (unless you’re particularly self-conscious and need to unlearn hiding your true self). but the best parts of it come when you have a specific issue or insecurity that comes with being your most natural self that the world seems to misunderstand about you, or just not give you what you don't even know you’ve been looking for. i think you might mutually intimidate each other at first because you're lowkey both expecting to be made fun of for your inadequacy with certain types of information that the other is nuanced with (and you’re not), but it never comes. you don't feel like what your dual wants in life is wrong. your dual seems so talented in all the ways you hope to shine but you’re always unsure of. for the introvert (me) wishing they felt their own active presence as an object (Se, Ne, Te, Fe) like the extravert does. for the extravert, wishing they felt their own relationships with other objects (Si, Ni, Ti, Fi) like the introvert does. any other intertype relationship (ITR) vs. duality is like the difference between 99% and 100% totality of a solar eclipse, except it’s the level of understanding with another person, like the eclipsing of your own information metabolism with theirs. of course there are other things that influence how well your relationship with this person goes, but i am talking strictly about when it comes to basic communication, the level of understanding you share. sometimes it might feel like you dont have much to talk about or the topic is unfocused, because you two ARE opposites in many ways after all, especially at a glance (domain of interests usually come with specific macroelements. theories about thought structures—like socionics, for instance—are in the domain of intuition, while physical interests and experiences are in the domain of sensorics.) i’m LII in the NT club (researchers) and my dual ESE in the SF club (social-communicative). so they’re constantly providing you with information from their own niche in life that you may be entirely unfamiliar with, but for some reason still interests and relaxes you to hear. you might not feel like you have a lot to say about the topic since but you are fully amazed by this person’s activity. it also makes you feel more sure of yourself and more confident that people truly appreciate and need your natural abilities.

> let’s break it down

here’s some lightly modified descriptions of the information blocks in LII and ESE's information metabolism models from pyatnitsky so you can get an overarching impression of how their type contributes to the informational sphere. i added some of my own adjustments and borrowed some sentences from stratiyevskaya's descriptions. additionally, you can click on the name of the block for an explanation of the role it plays.

i put about a week’s work into these collages but my goal with them was to actually show where i think these information blocks are most pertinent in these characters specifically and where they apply so it’s not just some abstract thing, just as supplementary examples as needed. (for the meaning of these information elements individually you can refer to cysia’s document.)

LII (Logical-intuitive introvert)

EGO (-Ti? -> -Ne!). Analytical thinking. They are well aware of the interrelationships of some objects or phenomena with others, and what laws are in effect or not in effect. On the basis of a comprehensive analysis, they put forward insights about the global essence of specific objects and phenomena, their possibilities. They acutely charge the situation with potential energy. For every situation, there is an archetype.

Super-EGO (-Fi? -> -Se!). Normative ideas about relationships between people and ways to get out of unpleasant ethical situations. Understands ethics as founded on the principles of fairness; to do to one side of the equation that you do to the other. Volitional manifestations in order to protect their living space are carried out only on the basis of personal experience. Because of the limited opportunities to fight back, they react painfully to attempts of any interference in his life. Does not respond to any arbitrary crudeness or volitional pressuring. Does not compromise goals, stubbornly clings to them. Avoids direct confrontation if possible, would rather talk civilly and earnestly. Uses their naturally strong sense of the conditioning of objects over time to avoid collisions with their material interests. Due to this, they may appear as someone with very little weaknesses.

Super-ID (+Fe -> +Si?) Attracts information about a good mood, a specific positive state, or a feeling. They would like to think that they can eliminate serious inconveniences, make the environment around them more comfortable. This skill needs to be evaluated. They are unconsciously activated when there is a need to make the environment more comfortable, which should lead to a better state, raise the mood at least in the immediate environment. In friendly, comfortable, and informal company, their cool exterior thaws and they start lighting up with joviality.

ID (+Te! → +Ni?). Has developed guidelines and methods that relate to specific practical activities, technological effectiveness, and resource use. Spontaneously feels the correct allocation of resources over time, which allows them to effectively solve tasks at an unhurried pace. This pace is deeply rational in nature.

ESE (Ethical-sensory extrovert)

EGO (+Fe! -> +Si?). Perception of the world is fundamentally emotional. Feels the emotional atmosphere well in any situation, knows the relevance of the way of expression, the place and weight (importance) of the internal state in each situation. Flexible approach to solving problems of managing and expressing emotions. They show bright emotionality both negative and positive. Creatively produces around themself comfort, coziness, conveniently arranges space, surrounds others with beautiful things, changing thereby the general condition and mood. Usually opinionated about their tastes.

(wow i really went all out on that this one that tumblr wont even display it in full resolution, so here. john just has so many more lines to choose from, sorry!)

Super-EGO (+Te! -> +Ni?). Practical and technological thinking is tightly based on acquired knowledge and patterns of solving similar problems. Methods of business activity in both general and specific areas are selected based on the opinion of reputable sources, or adjusted to one of the mastered templates. Predicting specific changes in the sphere of their interests is carried out only on the basis of personal experience. He is not able to compare his own method of forecasting with others, so he is sensitive to criticism of poor timing or deadlines, does not like situations that feel like a waste of his time; he is lost in connection with negative events. Guided by purely personal experience, he chooses specific times and deadlines for various tasks with a normative understanding of business activity in general.

Super-ID (-Ti? -> -Ne!). Attracts information about the order, specific logical relationships in the field of activity or interests. Needs someone to suggest specific ways to make connections between phenomena, patterns, and rules. Tries to be reasonable himself, even though he knows that this is not characteristic of him. Sometimes he openly talks of his actions that were poorly reasoned through, as if inviting other people to laugh at his thoughtlessness. The ordering and systematization of thought opens up a new way of understanding of events that are happening around him, as well as new prospects, potential, and capabilities. He likes to think that he understands the essence of a situation and lights up with new ideas. This skill needs to be evaluated. It is unconsciously activated when it is necessary to create order, clear consistency and clarity on a particular issue, especially if their abilities are recognized.

ID (-Fi? -> -Se!). Involuntarily keeps track of communications in their social circle. Without hesitation, they use a variety of ways to establish and maintain relationships that have been developed in his personal practice. Good relationships are important for personal inner confidence in a situation. To prevent unfavorable relationships, they are inclined, often without even realizing it, to act with pressure, forcing a showdown, forcing the partner to change the relationship for the better. Frequently demonstrates his resoluteness, persistence, and purposefulness, as if proposing his behavior as a model for imitation. Usually tells in much detail what obstacles were created before him, and how he overcame them, what he was told in response, and what he replied with, and so on and in the like.

(full res)

you might be able to see already how they would complement each other's thought process nicely. here are some descriptions of what the communication between these types is like:

+Fe! : program function of ESE and dual-seeking function of LII

The ESE periodically tells emotionally charged "program" function stories, telling of how somebody has acted and what they have done. The main orientation of ESE's leading ethical program is: "No one should be offended." The LII carefully listens to these statements, and, demonstrating a full understanding of these issues, develops logical basis for them, e.g. in calm persuasive voice he explains how the ESE has acted justly and fairly. The effusion of turbulent emotions coming from the ESE is counterbalanced by their absorption by the LII, who breaks them down into fragments by asking clarifying questions of the ESE.

-Ti? : dual-seeking function of ESE and program function of LII

The ESE is tuned to accepting information when it's relayed in clear logical form. He issues requests for logical explanations delivered from a point of view of generalized rules underpinning specific life events, which he receives from the LII, who delivers clear unambiguous interpretations, places the dots over all "i's", and demonstrates good understanding of problems that are of concern to the ESE. Not receiving information of this kind, the ESE begins making demands of those around him to be "intelligent" and understand the reasons of his actions.

-Ne! : activating function of ESE and creative function of LII

The ESE feels uncomfortable if he doesn't extend his help to people who are in need of it. His subconscious orientation is: "care and guard the talented", be kind and attentive towards other people. The LII usually meets such criteria by proving in action his aptitude at uncovering hidden capabilities, winning trust, passing on the knowledge. The ESE creates supportive conditions for people who are capable but lacking in assertive "push-through" qualities, among whom the LII finds himself, and a special work regime that protects such individuals from overloads on sensing functions. Newly discovered possibilities inspire and promote the pragmatic and business-oriented activities of the ESE. He can support a new undertaking or initiative with an enormous amount of energy and enthusiasm, light up by new ideas. Only the LII is able to, even having a vague general notion about the subject, construct a developed theory or idea of any issue. This theory shows to be promising in the process of its concrete application within its field.

+Si? : creative function of ESE and activating function of LII

LII tries to take care of their well-being, but may gravitate towards demonstrative asceticism, exhaust himself with work, studies, or exercise. The ESE periodically takes care of creating an environment that "charges" the LII with pleasant sensations: a reception of guests, a good meal, a visit to a theater or a concert, an interesting trip, and so on. At the same time the ESE takes pleasure in this himself.

+Te! : role function of ESE and observing function of LII

The role function of the ESE manifests as business-oriented activity and initiative, supplying interesting information, provision with material assistance to those who are in need, general restlessness and fussy busyness. This function is normative, i.e. the ESE seeks to comply with the norms and accepted ways of doing things. The nuancing of the understanding of these norms, i.e. introduction of activities that go beyond them, is possible only by considering LII's advice and recommendations. The LII serves as a director of this function, adjusting its workings by advocating the necessity of practical application of some beneficial ideas, rejection of useless though spectacular ideas, and the need to ensure standards of life not below average by rejection of equalization.

+Ni? : vulnerable function of ESE and demonstrative function of LII

The ESE poorly feels the flow of time, both physical, which manifests as running late and poor distribution of his strengths over time, and historical, which manifests as poor ability to anticipate consequences of actions and tendency for traditional ways of solving problems. The ESE finds it difficult to make radical choices. The LII fully takes this aspect onto his shoulders. He has an unconscious ability to distribute activities in time, thereby avoiding work stress and overloads, and is capable of making a radical choice. The LII is able to calmly wait and in the necessary moment get to work when the wasteful fussiness of the ESE reaches its critical point.

-Fi? : ignoring function of ESE and role function of LII

On this function the ESE gives advice and makes demands concerning the creation of appropriate psychological distances in form of proper behavior, courtesy and politeness, denouncing rudeness and boorishness. In this manner, the ESE adjusts LII's role function, which in itself contains a set of large psychological distances: a sullen stubborn look, unsociability, etc. With such fine-tuning it becomes easier for the LII to come into contact with people, whereby he becomes more animated, resolves many of his ethical problems that previously frightened him, gains greater insight into human relationships and a more accurate understanding as to whose side to take in situations of conflict.

-Se! : demonstrative function of ESE and vulnerable function of LII

The LII finds it very difficult to exert pressure on other people from his own will and initiative, especially in cases when he needs to attain something for himself. He finds this difficult to do - to press ahead in certain situations, to gather all the required paperwork, to stand in lines and queues, to petition for his own interests, even the ones that are of vital importance to him. He finds it difficult to push a person away, to sharply refuse someone, to quarrel loudly and defend his rights, to put an end to relations that have exhausted themselves. The ESE doesn't directly affect this function, i.e. he doesn't verbally criticize and teach the LII on this aspect, but takes over its functioning completely. The ESE exerts a constant, sometimes intrusive and imposing pressure on other people if there is a need to achieve something, to defend justice and demand fair treatment, to protect interests of those who are close and dear to him. The ESE goes to the right jurisdictions, inspires people around him and directs them towards work and purposeful activity, keeps up a high pace of life himself, and breaks off relations with those who don't deserve trust.

and some miscellaneous excerpts from literature i liked a lot. (i can't remember the sources i used since i've been working on this on and off, for the past week and i was just spilling things onto the post. i think stratiyevskaya?):

Mood - that’s what matters in this dyad - emotions and feelings. Anything that suppresses and overshadows good mood is considered unethical in this dyad and is strongly condemned.

The ESE does not allow the LII to limit him in the possibilities of consuming the amount of pleasures and joys, which he considers to be necessary and sufficient. Fortunately, both partners in the dyad - LII and ESE - are obstinate and unyielding. Both are demanding, unwilling (and not allowing anyone else) to lower the bar of their requirements, unable to give in and make concessions (especially in anything that is of principle for themselves). Both know how to make their partner reckon with their interests and insist on the fulfillment of their demands.

LII is impressed by the emotional generosity of ESE and his spiritual responsiveness. All this finds the deepest understanding in LII, since he is tuned to the same priorities and values. For his part, ESE admires the ability of LII to speak clearly and definitely on every issue. ESE is struck by the harmony of the reasoning of LII, the amazing clarity, accuracy and laconicism of his statements. To ESE it seems that for LII, there is nothing incomprehensible in this world; he can give a comprehensive explanation on every issue. And everything that ESE thought about before is gradually being built into a definite and clear system of views, which he can now very freely and naturally present. Confusion and chaos in his worldview gradually gives way to a stable logical order, as if someone patient and careful was sorting all his thoughts into shelves. Such clarity inspires and activates ESE; he begins to see some prospects for himself, new opportunities. His energy and activity, in addition to emotional and ethical expression, also receives sensory realization: ESE begins to take care of LII and carefully looks after him. If LII is a colleague with whom ESE is especially pleasant to communicate with, he begins to treat him with something tasty, homemade; will make some small, but beautiful and necessary gift (for example: new cologne or a warm scarf).

> okay that's great and all but when are we talking about john and aradia specifically?

yes, that was the point of this post. i just had to build all that up first so i could walk you through my thoughts in a fully substantiated way.

considering chronology of wind again, john doesnt realize it but he needs aradias frankness and insight. even if she’s unable to explicate on vague things, she states the reason why instead of making him feel stupid (it would create a doomed timeline) but thats all john needs to hear. she is self-effacing and only tells him the truth, and we know other people can take advantage of john’s suggestibility in this way. aradia tells john who is or isnt trustworthy, what actions would be useful/necessary and which ones wont, without any selfish personal motive a la vriska or terezi.

^ (juuuust the record my nitpicky ass doesn’t agree with the truth of the classpect interpretation on behalf of the author in the last bit BUT that is beside the point here. the point is that she is answering john’s question in a way that is meaningful for him)

aradia doesnt realize it but she needs john’s friendy goofiness to brighten her up because she is surrounded by people who antagonize her when she’s literally not even trying to get under anyones skin. everybody gets frustrated at her “spooky nonsense” because theyre afraid of their own mortality, basically telling her to put a lid on it because thinking about hard truths makes THEM personally uncomfortable. but to her it’s always just been a fact of life. plugging your ears to reality is ignorance, but at the same time that doesn’t mean there’s no meaning in anything. she wants to help people see this and she dedicates herself to becoming a psychopomp for the deceased and earnestly trying to make people feel emotionally and physically comfortable in their situation through exploring their memories.

john isn’t hostile towards her. by being herself she is immediately able to earn john’s trust when they initially talk. this is also true in canon; the one time they talked when john initially comes up to her, saying “can i ask you something? seem reasonable, and pretty nice.” unfortunately he asked her the one question she didn’t have much to say about, and i can’t blame him for expecting all the troll girls to be basically insane at that point. but i don’t think aradia is insane. yes she is odd, but i think it’s evident that she has a good head on her shoulders with knowledge of the way the universe around her works, and in the end wants to simply bask in watching it play out. i think she deserves to get childishly excited about it, especially considering she was dead for most of her developmental years.

aside from getting his answers answered, john shows curiosity about her and her species and even care about her well-being and state. this naturally comes from their conversation’s ebb and flow. aradia tells this straightforwardly, without bells and whistles and without trying to trick him, unlike the other trolls who seem keen on well..trolling him.. and providing him with unclear answers to those sorts things. maybe aside from vriska, but she did have a little bit of an attitude about it wherein her and john’s dynamic felt uneven or off-rhythm, with a large psychological distance. it’s a different feeling with aradia, however. they exchange information on the same rhythm and so are able to achieve a closer psychological distance in communication.

there are no judgments coming from aradia about john being “stupid”. she doesn’t underestimate him. it’s not just that john wants to understand (although he does), but he needs to understand what he is doing. aradia compliments john about the traits he possesses that allow him to be effective. i guess in a way i’m doing the same thing with john right now.

john is so mobile and strung along by being the action hero going from place to place as a can-do deliveryboy that he never has time to reflect on his losses, think through them, and accept them.

literally who else is more qualified in all of homestuck than aradia for talking to john about these things?

on top of all of this, they have objectively significant connections beyond just mutual self-realization in a way i think could've been fleshed out. there is potential here.

for a story, i can think of a way that a conversation between them could plausibly happen using the systems established in homestuck's mythology. in canon, we see that john never met aradia until year 3 on the golden battleship in the dream bubbles when he goes to sleep.

but john still dreamt out in the furthest ring. that means during those 3 years it was possible for john to have had a dream with her in it, or at least aradiabot. i know john didn't know aradia's name beforehand but let's just explore the possibility that they could have had met before that. remember that all these aradiabots were once this person.

aradia had obtained john's crosbytop, his dads hat, and his wallet quite a while before their sgrub session. theres your entry

imagine john seeing that

memories of dear old dad get stirred up through the link of seeing those items

the dream bubble transforms

john is forced to stand in his memories and explore grief and the meaning of life with aradia

physically being in the space around him would definitely help john reflect easier i think because it will force him to actually exist within the space and talk to someone, taking some time out for this. he wanted to know if anything could've been done or if he was just too late to save them. i know aradia would be able help him slow down and introspect. don't forget the opportunities created by the properties of these spaces that are glubbed out in the furthest ring by the horrorterrors that meld the labyrinthine time and space of their surroundings to the memories of the people and finding others through common points in memory. i would imagine that objects known by multiple people would provide a common point in memory to bring them together.

The bubbles allow the players of Sburb/Sgrub who have lost a life to continue dreaming. The reality constructed in the bubbles is a combination of the memories of everyone inside the bubble accessible to any who has learned the bubble's nature. According to Aradia, it would be quite difficult to exit a bubble to get into a new one, however someone inside a bubble can travel to another one through common points in memory, taking their own memories with them to be integrated into the new bubble. These memories mix and combine, but in general, no new memories are created. Additionally, the bubbles store the consciousness of a player who has lost their dream selves and their original selves, making them double as a form of afterlife; the player is then capable of accessing the memory of anyone else who has gained access to the bubbles. Living players, who have lost or become their dream selves, appear in the dream bubbles when they are asleep. It is in this fashion that the bubbles can be used as meeting places between the dead and the living; even those from alternate universes and doomed timelines can be found in a bubble. Furthermore, in addition to memories, the bubbles can to some extent reflect the thoughts of a player. Beyond that, the bubbles can also behave similarly to Skaia's clouds, showing things that are in some way relevant to the player - such as when coin-flip Dave saw alpha Dave grieving over Bro's corpse - something he was not aware of before being shown it by a bubble.

physically reflect the thoughts of the player…… rubs hands

john and aradia share points in memory related to those objects, and to top it all of they are directly related to john's dad on the same day he died, while aradia grew up with them as bizarre alien artifacts from an archeological dig. the memories are more emotionally charged for john, and i think that distinction would probably be relevant to them both.

to be honest i think after speaking with him for a bit she would readily tell john that she regrets not talking to the kids from the universe her team created sooner before she died, but is glad that she can in the afterlife. in canon, alpha aradia told a doomed dave, "i think its absurd i never introduced myself to you in all that time i spent moping around the lab. guess i wasnt in a very good mood".

now not all the aradiabots would know who john is, because the trolls only found out about the humans once they created the genesis frog and hid out in the lab in the veil from jack who infiltrated their session. the aradiabot in the lab was the last one that survived. so if any one of them would know who john is, it would be the aradiabot that exploded. aradia's dream self ascended to god tier in jack noir's rampage on trolls' derse and took those memories with her which we can assume is what made the last aradiabot explode. its known that any original copy that dies when another rises up becomes a ghost and lives on in the dream bubbles, which would include her. a doomed aradiabot we see in the comic, which was the one that originally landed to alternia in the past, becomes more lighthearted after she dies, a bit more like her alive counterpart.

oh yeah, and the more obvious surface-level connections to top it off? ghostbusters? john ain't afraid of no ghost girl. john would be genuinely interested in what aradia living as a ghost irl on her planet and not as a gaming abstraction in the furthest ring would be like. i imagine she would be able to explain the subjective experience and that she had to prototype herself into the kernelsprite order for her server player to see her. there's also no way john hasn't seen a movie as classic as indiana jones and judging from her poster i can imagine he probably thinks it's sweet that aradia's strife specibus whipkind is a reflection of her own personal tastes, interests and hobbies.

so yeah i've just been chewing on all of this and thinking about it but i know i needed to just get this out there somehow. obviously since i spent two weeks putting this post together i'd be happy to hear your thoughts

#homestuck #aradia megido #john egbert #johnradia #arajohn #homestuck analysis #socionics #mine

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creativity-deficient · 6 months

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Anywayssss I genuinely think this is one of the most important creek scenes we have so far and I don’t see a lot of people talk about it so let’s get into it

So it all goes back to this scene-

I know it’s generally agreed upon amongst the fandom that Tweek and Craig were only fake dating/doing it for the town at first, but at some point their relationship became real, and it’s easy to see why, I mean, it is left pretty vague in all fairness.

I, however though, don’t believe this to be the case? Like YES, the town shipping them together is absolutely what brought them together in the first place, and they did not seem to have any interest towards each other before that, that’s indisputable. HOWEVER I don’t think that necessarily means their relationship was “fake” either. I do think it took time and work to get to where they are now, but I also think that the whole situation, as crazy as it was, not only helped them both to be more open and honest with themselves about their sexualities, but also in the end, DID genuinely bring them closer together.

One thing I have always found super interesting about Tweek in this episode (and this could just be me) is that unlike Craig, he doesn’t seem to struggle as much with accepting his sexuality but rather, how he will be perceived because of it. His first thought when finding out about all the yaoi art is “what if my parents find out?” He’s afraid and anxious of what others will THINK of him if they know.

But in this scene, it’s clear that he’s no longer afraid, and I feel what he says to Craig here sums it up pretty well-

“I’m so sorry Craig, you made me believe in myself in a way I never have before. I didn’t think it had any of that in me but, you were right! I can do more than I think. You CHANGED something in me and I want to fix whatever’s hurting you now.”

It’s because of CRAIG that he now has this newfound confidence, and I truly believe it changed his perspective of him. Obviously I don’t think he full on fell in love with Craig right there and then, but I DO think that Craig being the first person to ever really make him believe in himself has made him start to see him in a different light, acting as the catalyst for what was about to come (in more ways than one, but that’s another rant)

It’s no secret that Tweek lives a pretty tough life. He’s abused, neglected, and no one really takes him seriously

But Craig?

Craig is the first person who has actually made feel Tweek SEEN. Like he’s MORE than what others, including himself, think that he is

It’s such a brief scene, but I feel like it says SO much, because even just being there, sitting together on the couch and being able to talk about WHATEVER without feeling like he’s going to be judged because of it is probably WAY more than anyone else has ever done for him

And you can tell it means the world to him

#sorry if this is all a mess I’m kinda rambling #anyways I love them :))#south park #tweek tweak #craig tucker #sp creek

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a-doubleh-x · 6 months

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Why I like Charlastor

The other day I noticed there was some negativity in the Charlastor tag, including antis and people feeling the need to defend against antis, so I thought I might as well take a step back and just write candidly about why I like the ship.

I only got into Hazbin in October of last year, but already it has inspired me a lot to write and fantazise about it. Like most people, I started with the classic "they look cute together", but as I kept looking I couldn't help but think there was something else to these two than first met the eye.

For starters, I love Pollyanas! I think they get a bad rep for being naive, but I just appreciate an optimist like Charlie who just wants to make people around her happy because it makes her happy. I also like bad boys 😳 I'm a pretty heteronormative guy, so I haven't had a big chance to explore that part of myself yet, but I do like the danger and excitement someone like Alastor brings to the table.

I will admit when I started writing Charlastor I felt like I was handling dynomite. It's a lil scary to ship a boundless altruist with a manipulative sociopath, but bear with me.

I think each of them has something the other needs. I think Charlie needs someone to challenge her, someone to steer her in the right direction while she's mostly isolated. At the start of the series, practically nobody but Vaggie takes her seriously, and Alastor is no exception. He mocks her, teases her, but she still listens and I think it's because somewhere deep down she understands there's something he's trting to communicate in his annoying, but curious way.

Of course, I also love the fanon Charlie who's down bad for Alastor, and even if that Charlie is a little naive, I think it's also sweet and she can use some indulgence while most people treat her like a child.

On the other hand, when it comes to Alastor, this is a bit of a theory on my part, but I think he's secretely lonely. He has friends, certainly, like Rosie and Mimzy, but they're not good enough friends to live together with him. They don't seem to be able to save him from "pure, absolute boredom". But Charlie, for some reason can, even though she's a stranger at the beginning when Alastor chooses to move into the Hotel.

Alastor is not as much of a cynic as someone who chooses to see things in a perspective that benefits him. He doesn't think redeeming sinner is "hopeless", but "hilarious" instead, which has interesting implications to me. That's why he chooses to hover around Charlie, not because he thinks she's lame, rather because he thinks she's silly. She makes him laugh. Which I think is kind of how Alastor sees "love".

And then you have fanon Alastor who, depending on the writer, is either a horny animal, a wisecrack edgelord or a soft boy who's mean to everyone but Charlie XD I like several of those interpretations, but I kinda prefer mine just out of personal taste. I think the best part about Alastor is that he doesn't *care* what anyone thinks of him and always does what he wants, even at the expense of other people, which I find pretty enviable.

They're kinda both outcasts in their own ways. Charlie by being unable to fit in and Alastor being unwilling to compromise. But they don't judge each other. He supports her in his own weird way and she houses him and is delighted of him in general, which is tasty food for his ego. I do wonder why Alastor is interested in Charlie, both in canon and in a fandom vacuum.

There's some cool potential for drama there, but also growth and healing, in my opinion. Personally, I think Alastor doesn't want to actually *hurt* Charlie, but he may hurt those around her, which will be a moment to start settling compromises if Charlie puts her foot down.

That haz bin my review so far! I'm honestly pretty grateful for Vivziepop for all of the work she's done so far, I know directing, animating and writing two shows over the course of 5 year or so ain't easy. I'm also grateful to the fandom who shares their thoughts and vision, which calms the terrible voices I started hearing in my head since I bought this weird old radio.

I'm in the middle of a break, but if you're interested in my fanfics I'll get back to writing very soon. Cheers! 🌈❤🦌

#hazbin hotel #charlie morningstar #alastor hazbin hotel #charlastor

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zeevoidlight · 4 months

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what's the deal with these two...

Seriously. Why is the suspicion and joking of their bromance even a thing that exists (outside of just shipping for shipping's sake and ppl making every male friendship a secretly frustrated gay relationship). Is it even a thing?

Do I ship Goku and Vegeta?... yes.. yes I do, I confess myself as part of the problem. But I feel is fair that in a show like Dragon Ball where there's sexually mature references and themes at times I can give myself the freedom to wonder. So i'mmana talk about two pivotal moments that marked a before and after for both of them together as a team: their Majin saga match and the fusion.

//////

As far as the show goes, there's not really much to go off of. They clearly both have their wives whom they both love very much, children, they love to battle and test themselves, they are bros (now at least), rivals for life, they better each other by challenging one another to get better.

On the other hand my autism tells me that that's not the whole story. Because I normally don't like to take things at face value when i can see more.

Is interesting to see how both, Goku's compassion and respect for Vegeta, and Vegeta's (albeit unhealthy) obsession over Goku, the fact that they were also the last of their kind and the only ones that could compete with each other to fight between themselves and against others (discounting Gohan since he always slacked on his training and wasn't really interested on fighting), the only ones that could understand how the other felt as being pure blooded, that Goku had a living example in Vegeta of his true origins to learn more about himself (like a walking Saiyan enciclopedia), that Vegeta had in Goku a new purpose in life (until he realized what he had with his family as well), all of that with time combined to create a dynamic where they both felt comfortable with each other. They famously became companions, with time forming friendship/friendly rivalry and some could even see them now being akin to brothers. Something that as much as Krilin was Goku's life long friend and will be forever he could never really fulfill all that Vegeta came to develop with Goku. And in a way I don't think anyone can either.

But there's also an important note to make about this relationship/friendship. Vegeta is the one that gives it more meaning than Goku does (at first). I feel like Goku is simply being his loving caring happy free self, while Vegeta takes it personal and takes so much weight on what Goku says and does and how it affects him. As he later puts in words in Super (Granola arc i think), Goku is an egotist while he himself is an egocentric. And that difference is important to get to the point because from now on for a while the question is "Why does Vegeta".

Why does Vegeta put so much weight in their fight in the Majin Saga that he's willing to kill innocent people again just to have a match with Goku (going with the latin dub again since is more accurate to the original japanese one). And it isn't just about his ego, is about what he doesn't say as well.

Why is Vegeta the only character that is so against fusion, with Goku specifically because he has only fused with him and we don't know how would he react to fusing with someone else if it's needed.

Why is Vegeta so averse to touching Goku. At least after their fight and after him dying in the Majin Saga and once he is allowed to go back to Earth.

Why on the brink of the universe destruction was Vegeta acting like a cheated on girlfriend when he discovered that Goku had a new transformation and didn't told him about it (I would be mad at him too to be fair but i also understand why Goku wouldn't want to do so and he did it to not hurt Vegeta's feelings and have a good time under fair conditions. he gets half a point for the sentiment).

The Majin Saga

From all the examples people like to pull up when trying to argument sexual tension between these two there's only a few that I feel have some significance. And I can tell you when did it cooked enough to be a possibility. And that is right when Goku announced he was going to go back to Earth for one day and one day only, presumably forever. That's where something started, but it was brewing since Goku died to Cell and Vegeta lost Goku, his purpose, his obsession, his will to fight, and entered a depressive episode that lasted 2 years (aprox, since Bulma tells Chichi that Vegeta had been training for the last 5 years in the 7 year time skip).

Once he knew Goku was coming back he just had to do anything in his power to fight against him again, no matter what it took (he looks so excited too, that's cute). His entire meaning as the person he perceived he was and his meaning as a warrior and Goku's foil depended on it. He actually was in good terms with Goku up to here though. Agreeing to the tournament rules, being patient, enjoying meals together, bragging about his kid. But after realizing that they might not have their match because of Supreme Kio's pink menace, nothing else mattered, not Bulma, not Trunks, not the Earth or the universe or everything he had been building for so many years without Goku. Goku was the single catalyst for his relapse. Like... how is it possible that fighting with him and proving his worth is more important that it's been a rock in his boots for years now. But ok, he's a warrior so I can understand why, also because he was going through a Major (with capital M) identity crisis where he's trying to negate his newfound value in his family and new home while thinking that is what was making him weak, though he never really believed that since he knew Goku never needed to be cruel to surpass him, it was just a jolt reaction to not knowing how to handle it, and Goku could see through that very clearly by asking him if he really believed that bs about feeling good by being cruel and being a slave of his own mind.

But the thing is that during their fight it is clear that more than winning (which he would have enjoy to no end if they finished their fight and Goku didn't had a new plot convenient powerup hiding under his eyebrows again, though that wouldn't have helped him to grow), both were very much enjoying the act of fighting (since Goku said he wanted to end the fight soon so Buu doesn't get the energy but he didn't because he could have used Ssj3 and end it quite fast), Vegeta fighting against his previous rival now companion Kakarot. Sparing with him in perfect synchrony in an equal fight because what Vegeta actually wanted with the Majin Magic was to close the powergap and convince himself he had an excuse to not feel remorse because of the magic. And i say that because before Goku dying to Cell he really saw him as competition, but after he lost him i feel that alongside his remorse and embarrassment for the disaster that was that saga, in part because of his gigantic ego, he must have felt alone, now truly being the last pure blooded Saiyan alive and not in condition to call himself a warrior anymore under his own standards. And although he had Gohan, which he respected a lot because of his courage and his immense power, it was not the same since Gohan is a pacifist and didn't had the same passion for fighting like a pure blooded Saiyan so he wasn't even training. So by the time of the Majin Saga and once Goku came into the picture again I think he subconsciously regarded him differently and he ends up realizing it during their fight (although he doesn't vocalize it).

During their fight there's a specific moment. After Goku throws Vegeta to a cliff side and he makes a hole in it to liberate himself, Goku comes to him and they both get very close just floating in the air and powering up, looking at each other. Vegeta is beyond pissed, Goku taking the fight very seriously. Then Goku smiles to Vegeta challenging him and showing he's enjoying their fight, and Vegeta relaxes for a moment changing his attitude and showing a smile back to him in empathy, sharing to him that he is enjoying it too and wants to challenge him back as well.

This whole fight is Goku's way to show Vegeta how much he actually cares about him and his well being despite what Vegeta might have believed up until then, how much he respects him as a warrior and an equal too, even risking Earth and Majin Buu's return. He did the unthinkable and menaced Kaio Shin with death if he dared to stop their fight, which Vegeta sure noticed and even reacted with complete disbelief. As Supreme Kaiosama says to Gohan and the others in the wasteland: "we cannot do anything about it. Fight until you can calm your hearts".

I know a lot of people joke about Vegeta being a repressed homosexual because of his obsession with Goku, and i'm not saying he is, but this fight is charged with sexual tension, mostly on his part, among other things of course. And is interesting that Vegeta, ever since the Namek experience, is the most emotionally fragile of the bunch and an unstable character. He feels everything very intensely and reacts in the same way while trying to hide under a curtain of pride, ego and his title of Prince.

Goku knew what he was getting into by agreeing to fight with Vegeta. He wasn't going to just let them set the score, he was going to give Vegeta the most intense therapy session ever by letting him discharge all that literal energy and anger, guiding him through his thoughts, playing by Vegeta's rules. Help him overcome whatever he had been brewing in his mind since they day they met thinking on where was the moment everything went wrong for years, so he could move forward...

And then... this happens...

... I don't think anyone expected something like this to even be a thing that he could do as a power that we will only see one time ever in the entirety of the show and is in here, lol. And not long ago I watched a semi abridged semi analysis commentary video on the fight and yeah, we coincide that there was something else going on here at the same time. Vegeta got a little too excited... He got rock hard by too much adrenaline, lol. And I didn't mentioned it but being that Saiyans were a warrior culture there exists some real life relation of warrior societies (like greeks, romans, spartans, norse, some aztec societies) and homoerotic practices as part of that philosophy. Fighting is everything and everything revolves around fighting. And finding a brother in arms could develop into something else out of admiration, or from hyper-masculinity with the purpose of dominating the other and demonstrating power. And i'm not saying that that was part of Saiyan culture, just that there might be some similarities with what we're seeing.

There's a fine line between pain and pleasure, hate and love, fear and excitement, rivalry and attraction. And in moments of intensity where both opposite feelings collide can produce an equally intense and confusing response. We know for sure Saiyans by nature often confuse fear an excitement, and rivalry with attraction at least, as Goku confesses on his first fight with Vegeta when he spares him. And here Vegeta is going through a rollercoaster of emotions and given that he is the most emotionally charged character it can go all places.

So, Vegeta tells Goku if he pretends to defeat him quickly as he said, Goku responds that he's trying to do that, and Vegeta asks if he thinks he can do it *slap slap* (the disrespect). He's trying to provoke him but the way he does it is kinda similar to what you'd do in a sexual encounter since he's not really hurting him too badly (which is really funny). And I'm pretty sure he wasn't thinking about anything sexual, just pure anger towards our buddy Kakarot so that doesn't change the fact that he did just lost his marbles to blind rage and wasn't thinking at all, just feeling intensely and acting freely on it. "Listen... don't you think this is enough humiliation I got from your part *hit hit punch hit*. This attacks are not enough to set the score. How is it possible that a Prince of Saiyans, that possesses such a great pride, was humiliated by a warrior like you (In the English version there's a series of flashbacks with dialogue but that's not a thing in the japanese and latin version). What saddens me the most is that you saved my life, worm (i don't remember if he's referring to Cell because Gohan saved him there, or way back in the saiyan saga when they first met since for a warrior is way worse offense to get their death in battle denied since he now has to suffer all what he's been through). You deserve to die! I'll break you to pieces right now! I'll start with the arm...".

((You got this guy having Goku in all tied up to a rock, legs spread out, slapping Goku in the face, talking about "not being enough humiliation", and saying "this attacks are not enough", all emotionally charged and intense with his obsession of a rival, high in testosterone, from a warrior culture, that even back in the day I was like OH MY GOOOOD!? What is he going to DO?!! that when I heard him say "I'll break you to pieces right now! I'll start with the arm" I was like OH THANK GOODNESS he's just going to mutilate him... NO, WAIT...)) (also, notice that Vegeta is technically fighting a ghost because Goku is already dead)

Unfortunately for Goku though Vegeta didn't share the safe word and he had to free himself so he wasn't actually dismembered by the intensity of Prince Vegeta and they continued their fight, once again Goku leveling the field into a in a less emotionally charged more equal fight all things considered. They talk again and Vegeta admits to him that he understands that he's never going to surpass him because Goku is more skilled at fighting, now getting into the real meat of the matter with him and his frustrations. We get to Vegeta almost breaking in tears again, torn by the realization of his situation confessing all about how he wants to be who he was and how he cannot cope with his new life on Earth having all this new feelings for his family and being passive that make him feel like he is not himself. Which tells a lot about how he still doesn't know how to function outside of conflict and his deeply rooted self image since childhood, and to me it says that it almost feels to him like he's afraid of disappearing as an individual if he cannot go back to being something he recognizes and is familiar with as he doesn't recognize himself being something else, a who that is completely opposite to what he has ever known. Is something some people that had lived through a deeply traumatic upbringing experience. On top of it being a Saiyan it must have been really confusing and difficult but Goku is the only one that could probably understand that in some capacity as pure blooded Saiyan. That's why he is the only person Vegeta can trust with this information. With no one else he has this level of openness, probably not even with Bulma.

And i love how Goku doesn't give up on him though after everything and he is still willing to listen and help. Without his help here Vegeta wouldn't have confronted and put into words his reality to later internalize it and fully embrace his love for his family, fully embrace his feelings, giving Trunks later his first hug. That was all Goku's doing.

Of course things happened since they were still in the middle of total annihilation at the hands of the strongest pink ball of bubblegum. and from this fight and his explosive sacrifice/ acceptance of his destiny and for who he was, going forward Vegeta actually starts acting a little different. A lot more relaxed with Kakarot, more open and sincere, more focused on helping than competing, more agreeable and no longer ignoring or being embarrassed of his feelings for his loved ones (like we see when he gets convinced by Goku to do the fusion using Vegeta's love for Bulma). And I'm pretty sure he felt grateful and in life debt to him. Not only for his help with unjumbling his feelings during that fight but for everything he's done for him since the day Goku spared his life way back in the day (as we see him asking to Piccolo if he'll get to see Goku in the afterlife just before he sacrifices). A real true honest best friend/rival for life. (Though he still was being a bit stubborn about wanting to fight Buu himself in the anime, but in the manga he just doesn't charge head first into trying to battle him, he just doesn't like the idea of fussing with Kakarot).

Then the fusion thing...

The thing about the fusion is that Vegeta usually never wants to do it because he's embarrassed by the dance (which yeah... that's absolutely fair) but this is not the metamoran one, is the Potara, and they don't need to dance. His usual complains then change to "I just don't like to be fused with him" or "I don't like the idea of uniting bodies with him" when they have to do it later (either in canon or movie). And I don't know how doing a fusion with someone would feel like but the Potara at least has two ways it can go. For the Kaios just one person becomes the main, getting some physical characteristics and power of the other, and the other becomes dormant, just one person gets to be conscious. But for mortals, both actually remain conscious and they both "live" inside the body of each other as one new combined persona who is a combined identity, mixing mentally and physically, sharing memories, thoughts, feelings, everything in unison either the other wants it or not because when they are fused they are cooperating in a single brain so they think the same under this persona even if later they have separate thoughts on the same thing when they de-fuse, even better actually if they are rivals because they get the rival boost. Is not too crazy to think that some would consider it a very intimate act, even more because is permanent (until the retcon), which Goku is so considerate to tell Vegeta at the very last minute and he's like "WTF!" and Goku is just down with it while Vegeta is regretting ever meeting this guy but does it anyways.

And we have seen other characters combine but they don't think much about it, Trunks and Goten specifically just find it fun because they are best friends and just think about having the time of their lives beating up the bad guys. But I think Vegeta specifically does feel like it's something too personal and intimate that requires a lot his will power to do. His concept of it is different for a lot of reasons that all derive from being a very reserved person in general in many aspects. But ultimately and reluctantly agrees for the sake of his loved ones and saving his new home.

Goku certainly didn't thought much about it, just another way to become even stronger by cooperating with someone in a new way. Better if it's Vegeta because the power boost is much greater to save the Earth and he considers him a real friend at this point. He's so excited when Vegeta accepts because it means so much, it's the demonstration to Goku of his turn to an actual good guy, fighting for others and not just himself, and he's so proud. And the result is this very playful, sassy confident and cocky warrior that we all know and love because is the best thing ever and I don't have Vegetto favoritism.

But something did changed in both of them after the fusion. I know is an anime only thing for better pacing (at least until Super came and made it a thing again in small ways of its own), but after the fusion thing Goku started to unnecessarily get into Vegeta's personal space more (I mean, I don't think there's anything more intimate than fussing and you'd have to get a level of trust and understanding with that other person like with no one else ever afterwards regardless). Like, I like that when they do the cheek to cheek attack, which again was completely unnecessary, Vegeta feels dirty about it, even muttering to himself "He's an opportunist...(as in like, Goku was sexuality taking advantage of him) I would have preferred the fusion" and Goku asks him is he's finished blasting Buu bits and Vegeta recoils and yells "Don't get close to me!". (In the manga there's not really that much fuss about it when they separate, they just get to work and directly from separating to Buu's brain). The fusion represents the pinnacle of their growth together as partners. Probably even more than that at this point for how much they share as rivals and how much they understand about each other above any other person, including their own wives in some regards for all they have gone through on things only they can share between themselves like their love for battle.

And if they both were friendly before while still keeping their cards up, now is when they start to act more like brothers and cooperating. Goku with his power and techniques and Vegeta with his strategic planing at the end of the Buu saga. Goku even becomes more playful with Vegeta, even sharing funny moments together. And as pointed out, I believe the fusion made them know the thinking, memories and intentions of the other to a degree.

This is the turning point for Goku as well regarding accepting his heritage as Saiyan. Because from then on he also accepts the values of the Saiyans as warriors and accepts feeling pleasure in having a good fair honorable fight without aid and relying only in his strength and talent just for the thrill he gets of it (much like what he felt as a child/teen), which he demonstrates by breaking the second pair of Potara earrings while Vegeta responds by telling him that he's so proud of him for going into the fight the Saiyan way. Also from then on others start to recognize Goku fully as a Saiyan (so much is the influence Vegeta has had on him that in the Super Broly movie Goku introduces himself to Broly, a fellow Saiyan, as Kakarot first over Goku).

Now, about Vegeta with the fusion, if he wasn't too sure about the fusion first, now every time the fusion is required he almost feels violated by the suggestion (which right before the kid Buu fight he actually didn't mind fusing again and kinda wanted it in the anime while this wasn't in the manga but ok). And of course, if he didn't had much thoughts on getting close and personal with Goku when battling because it meant nothing (like the arm riding in the Saiyan saga and their bondage session prior), now he recoils from him in certain situations (it also didn't help that the first time they fuse they went dick first...). Also also, there's a moment in the manga when Goku is fighting kid Buu in Ssj3 where Vegeta tells Goku that he guessed Goku was fighting overtime because he never intended for Vegeta to have his turn (because if he dies he dies for real), and Goku says that is not that, that he is just looking for an opportunity to reunite his power for at least a minute, and Vegeta gets all tsundere, blushes and says "So... So you weren't doing it to protect me?!..." (lol, well, here's the latin translation but you get the idea)

And onto Super, they made this thing about Goku asking Vegeta to grab his hand in order to instant transmission but Goku knows very well that's not necessary, he could have said to Vegeta to grab his shoulder like others do but he wants him to grab his hand, and Vegeta gets all flustered and nervous every time as if people are going to make fun of him for being gay or something (since we are told by the Pilaf gang that holding hands is very romantic and a sign of being a couple, and something to be embarrassed about, although from a childish perspective of course but this information was set up for the audience when Trunks wanted to hold hands with Mai). Like... Goku, do you have something to share as well?

They later spent 3 years in the hyperbolic chamber at Goku's request... 3 years together just sparing in a void where there's nothing but infinity and them, which again, it wasn't really necessary because as Vegeta points out that wasn't going to make much of a difference in terms of power because they are at their limit of what their bodies can achieve by just fighting, and three years is a bit too much. And Bulma even got jealous/angry about Vegeta accepting the invitation. And then! They come out like they did? Matching beards? I kinda want to wonder how that came to be. A dare? They broke the razor or what. Obviously the implication is that they got so into their fighting that they just forgot basic higiene those last days but like... I don't even have to try...

It's become such a well known thing that there's something going on that even in official material (not canon exactly but official) acknowledges it. Maybe Goku knows something we don't since the fusion happened but it goes a little beyond just a joke from his part XD.

And i haven't talked about it but Goku has no shame or filter. He does seem to display asexual tendencies, but he's either oblivious to sexual stuff at times and how it affects others, or does it on purpose because he feels not much about it but does know how it affects others. So that cheek to cheek attack could have been Goku being oblivious, or Vegeta was right and Goku took advantage of the situation to get close to Vegeta on purpose.

In GT there's actually not too much, they just remain companions and friends for life...(Is just so cute and fulfilling seeing them being like brothers). Vegeta again reminiscing of everything they've gone through and accepting his role in the powerscale and being very freaking cute with Bulma, being such a dad and all. The highlight is the fusion again though, where Vegeta is the one that says he wants to do the fusion "So what have you decided, Kakarot. Are we going to do the fusion or not", to which Goku just laughs and Vegeta is like "what are you laughing at", and Goku responds saying that "I'm not laughing, I just feel happy because is the first time you ask ME to do the fusion", and Vegeta is just averts his eyes and says "I hate you...", lol.

Of course, the bromance tones might be just fanservice (I didn't knew that in shonen is actually very common). But either if there's something or not I don't really care much about that. Because as characters I have seen them grow so much and they have learn so much about themselves and each other that them possibly being into each other might as well be just another aspect they allow themselves to explore if they're down with it, with whatever canon or the anime presents us to see and guess, just like they have with their own families, wives, form friendships, discover new feelings, ways of thinking, how they have become stronger and how they have change the people around them, meta speaking as well. Because it does feel natural for them, like it didn't came out of nowhere or out of purely fanservice (which it kind of is but it does make sense). Either they are just friends, honorary brothers or something more I'm happy with who they have become thanks to each other. And the trust they have for each other is what is beautiful to see reflected. I'm so proud of them and what they have achieved. Now they are inseparable as the best duo in history.

And in my conclusions I would say that Vegeta might feel something towards Goku for how much he has helped him and how he has come to admire and respect him in levels unimaginable... in a spartan kinda way if you like and if he ever was down with it. And Goku is just Goku. He loves in a storge kind of way because that's what he does. He knows Vegeta to a T, knows what he needs, and wants him to be happy as well and become the better version of himself, to feel comfortable and feel loved too because he admires him as well, and if he can help him he will do so. Is not really a physical sexual attraction (which doesn't mean it cannot derive on one if you want and as we've seen, specially with Goku) but there IS attraction and love in a different way.

#dragon ball #goku #kakavege #vegeta #character analysis #my autism is greater than the page limit #long post

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the-music-maniac · 7 months

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I think what drives me a little crazy (in a good way) about zosan as a ship is - ironically - that they're willing to do the worst possible thing, to sacrifice, for a necessary goal unrelated to their relationship. By that I mean that a common romance trope is an individual being willing to sacrifice the world, anything and anyone else, for their lover, and zosan is...not that. And for some reason that drives me more feral than that other romance trope ever possibly could. I find that more romantic than "I would burn the world for you" and I'll explain why.

The root of their specific willingness to sacrifice isn't a shortage of love or care by any means, but a complete trust and understanding of each other. To the absolute core of who they are. I'm going to refer specifically to that agreement between zosan (that I got spoiled on, so apologies if I get details wrong, I haven't gotten there in the story yet - ALSO spoiler warning if you haven't gotten to around Wano, so click away).

I'm referring to Sanji telling Zoro to kill him if he changes after his stint in Germa, and Zoro agreeing without need for an explanation, telling Sanji to survive until then - that is so fucking romantic to me, and people hold it up as proof that they don't care about each other but to me, it's anything but.

There is a burden of duty to being the wings of the pirate king, and they both take that responsibility seriously. They're both devoted to their captain and to their crew, and to the dreams of their crew. Zoro perhaps more outwardly unwaveringly so, but Sanji is devoted too, different from Zoro but equal in intensity. There are moments when you can TELL they're on the same wavelength, moments where Zoro gives a rare speech on the dynamics of their crew and Sanji is silent because he agrees. Sanji is terrified of hurting his found family, and he's terrified of becoming like his brothers and father. He loves his nakama and so he's willing to sacrifice his own life to prevent from turning into that type of monster.

Zoro is similar. He is willing to die for his nakama, and their dreams. They are in complete understanding of that point. Death itself is not something that scares either of them, there are some things that are worth the price. Potentially for different reasons ahem self worth issues ahem Sanji ahem but that's still something they both understand. Zoro would sacrifice himself in a heartbeat to save Sanji (he already has at Thriller bark), Sanji would do the same (again. Thriller bark), so it's not remotely because they don't care or love each other. They are absolutely willing to give all they are to keep each other from outside harm.

But what happens if the threat to the crew is Sanji himself?

Sanji asks Zoro to be the one to kill him, because Zoro is the only one on the crew who he trusts 100% to do so, to fulfill the promise, who understands. I personally think Luffy would try to save his nakama, even beyond what is possible, at his own detriment. The other crew members would probably do the same (then again I'm still not through the show so feel free to disagree with my interpretation).

But Zoro could do it if it came to that. It would be awful, and it would shatter and change him, irreversibly, heartbreakingly so - I don't agree with people who say Zoro would kill his nakama without hesitation and be fine with it out of loyalty to his captain, Zoro has a heart y'all and he loves his crew - but he could grit his teeth and do it if he realizes it is necessary, that there is no other option. Sanji trusts him to keep his word, to protect the rest of their family. Do you know how telling it is about the level of regard you have for your partner, to trust them to the point where you can easily place the well being of almost all you both treasure into their hands, once you realize you can't be the one to protect it anymore, and know without a shadow of a doubt that it'll be safe as long as it's with them? With knowing they're strong enough to accept the heavy burden of having your blood stain their hands for the rest of their life, the blame for your death on their shoulders, the shadow of you in every single thing they do, inescapable and marking every facet of their life forever? And to trust that they'll not only accept those consequences without hesitation because it's what you asked of them, but will also protect what you both treasure until their last breath, without you even needing to EXPLAIN that that's what you're asking to them to do, because it's the obvious, it's what you've both been doing all this time, it's something you both know so well that no words need to be exchanged, no reassurances need to be given.

And the implication of Sanji wanting Zoro to do this task too, of being okay dying by Zoro's hands because they're equals in every way. Especially since their fighting dynamic is mostly a competitive, I'm stronger than you, I'll never lose to someone as weak as you, blah blah. This is proof that that's not what Sanji and Zoro actually think of each other. Sanji knows that they could kill each other if either of them truly tried for one - wouldn't have asked Zoro to kill him otherwise. Sanji is also fine with Zoro being the one to defeat him. There is an inherent (kinda fucked up) romance to that notion. 'If I have to die, let it be by your hands.'

And on Zoro's part, there's an inherent fucked up romance to keeping your lover close forever because your fingers are stained with the necessity of their blood.

fUCK.

(here is a caveat that I'm viewing this in a scenario where Sanji and Zoro have established that they love each other and are potentially in a relationship. If it's before that you could also flavour it with Sanji's "I love him but I think it's unrequited, actually I think he may hate me, so it would hurt him the least to be the one to kill me" which is JUICY, but just for this post I'm viewing it where they've already established that they're valuable to each other, that they care)

How am I supposed to look at that and not fucking die. It's so much more nuanced and romantic to me personally than "I would burn the world for you" because that trope at its core is a selfish sort of protection. I can 100% see how people find it romantic, don't get me wrong, I'm not judging you if you like that trope, that's so valid. It's "I can't live without you" and "I would choose you above all others" which is romantic, but it's romantic in a different way. Depending on the characters, it's also, I would go to extremes to make sure you're alive, even if there's nothing else left after the carnage except for each other, even if everything else that makes life worth living has been destroyed for survival, and we can only ever rely on each other for the rest of time. I only care about you but not anything else you care about. I won't try to save it, even if you tell me to, even if you want me to, and won't forgive me for all I've done because I can't bear the burden of you not being alive and around anymore.

I get why it's compelling, but that trope could ignore (depending on how it's written) everything else that person could hold dear. Ignores potentially, the agency of the person being protected, a character who could have accepted the consequences and have not wanted the world to burn for their sake, who is strong enough for that burden. And true, maybe the character isn't like that, maybe they just want simply to live a life (valid of them, people are allowed to want happy endings for themselves), but my point is, it's a different archetype of romance for a different archetype of character, but it seems to be more accepted as a romantic trope then zosan's dynamic and I think it shouldn't be that way.

Zosan is the opposite. It suits their character type perfectly. For them, it's "there are things that are worth more than even you and me. I love you, knowing who you are and how you view the world and what other things you value. I love you everyday on purpose, not hopelessly or illogically or blindly, even knowing you may not always choose me. I'm willing to accept the pain of that, just to be next to you. The time we share isn't any less valuable for being fleeting and impermanent. I care about the things you care about and our lives are also worth living because of those things. It would tear me apart irreversibly to hurt you, but I would do it if you asked it of me, I would do it if that's what this life demands of us. I know you can protect what we both love, even if I'm not beside you. I respect your choices. In this, we understand each other perfectly."

THAT is my shit. That's the fucking deranged ass bs that has me staring at my ceiling at 3 am, pacing the floors at 6 in the morning, gnawing on conkcrete like a rabid dog. Brain rot brain rot brain rot.

#EQUAL PARTNERS IN LITERALLY EVERY WAY I CANNOT WITH THESE TWO #one piece #zosan #sanzo #zoro x sanji #sanji x zoro #THEM #romance tropes #analysis #roronoa zoro #black leg sanji #monkey d luffy #the strawhats

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zarnzarn · 2 months

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@irondork tags on the first post made me go heheh out loud so heres part two of the reverse odyssey au

1/2/3?

They set out in the morning.

Laertes and Anticles have taken over the throne until they return with the lost king, tears in their eyes as they wave the ship off, the smallest and sleekest one, fitted with twice the sails. Penelope and Telemachus keep their eyes on Ithaca until the last moment, her nails digging into his shoulder as they stand at the bow, and then she sighs and turns them to the captain's cabin with determination.

They turn into the open ocean with nothing but hope, all thirty five men that could fit in the boat rowing unrelentingly. She remembers some of them from the march out. They had left years ago as farmers and theives, come back as weatherbeaten soldiers, loyal and hardworking.

And guilty. Grieving, even, that their king gave up his life for them, thirty-five of them with either no one to go home to, or over-dedicated to the king, or filled with some odd sense of machismo, Cmietine had said, the night before they left.

Penelope knew better. They loved her husband, these men, to the bone, as had all the others who had begged and pleaded to be chosen to come. She knew better than anyone what it was like, after all, to have Odysseus look at you with his Athena-gifted eyes, to have him pull you in with a warm around your shoulders and a rakish grin as he flattered and joked and laughed. Knew better than anyone what it felt like to be caught in his wit and loyalty, to have his love and knew that helplessly, you could not help but love him in return. And for him to have fought by their side for ten years, brought almost every man home alive?

She knew the men loved Odysseus.

And she would use that well.

"Full speed ahead!" She shouts, trying to remember the confidence of her husband's orders, and keeps her eyes on the birds.

The first year, they sail until they run out of food, all the way back to Troy and then around, with one man in each direction awake at all times to search for even a glimpse of their wayward king. Penelope demands stories while they sail, of every scrap of her Odysseus from their eyes, encouraging them with what she can, making plans and strategies with Polites and Eurylochus and everyone else for when they find him.

They treat her with respect, to her surprise, never favouring another's order over hers or hesitantly explaining the reasons why they couldn't instead of dismissing her outright, that she wryly thinks must be at least partly borne of fear.

"I mean no offense, my lady," one of them says one day, rowing hard as he talks, after she says this. "But he really never shut up about you, ever. He once spent an entire evening after battle yelling at us how you would have done better."

She laughs at the thought, cheeks hot, even as the other sailors yell about disrespect and conduct before the queen and throw various things at the young man's yelping face.

Telemachus grows well on the ship. He finds it as easy to adapt as both his parents, and is beloved by the sailors as their own as he learns to handle ropes and oars and sails.

He does not understand the curse, does not understand why the adults around him weep so much, only knows that his father now swims in the waters and needs to be brought home.

Perhaps that is why he is the one to glimpse the scales in the water on the day they run out of food, despite Penelope's strictest rationing, when they all gather on the deck to hang their heads before one last speech, as the order is finally given to turn the ship back around home.

"Hello!" He shouts, waving wildly. "I'm Telemachus! Your son!"

His father blinks at him with five eyes- greyer than his, but still grey like his own- then smiles widely, waving back.

Telemachus hears gasps and cries and his mother's shout, but doesn't really wanna turn- he's finally seeing his father! After so long! Which means they can finally go home!

Penelope nearly trips them both overboard with how hard she rushes into him, one hand to her mouth as she sees Odysseus at last, at last. He looks gaunt, tail no longer silver but bright with dappled orange and red and yellow, dark brown like his hair, and they watch his expression wobble and tears leak onto his wet face as all thirty five of them clamber to the side of the ship, trembling with emotion as they shout greetings at him.

"Odysseus!" Penelope screams, laughing with joy as she gathers her chlamys up and steps onto the edge of the ship, ignoring the panicked rush of men trying to grab at her and the begging for Telemachus to stop trying to follow her bad examples. "Come here, you great idiot- where have you been?"

He swims closer almost hesitantly, diving under a wave and then reappearing next to the boat. He looks- shy, of all things, something like raw fear crossing his face as he flicks his tail and comes closer, even as the men run to get the nets, the ropes, the tub. Penelope laughs and reaches over the bow of the ship to strain downwards, arm outstretched to her husband, tears streaming down her face as he catches the next wave enough to meet the tips of her fingers.

And then Eurylochus next to her bellows, "NO!"

They all nearly jump out of their skin, and Penelope turns to look at her brother-in-law running across the deck to where one sailor is undoing the rope wound around a dirty rucksack, bag falling from his hand in shock.

Odysseus' fingers barely touch her own as the wave passes by, and then the winds of Aeolus still trapped in the bag burst out in a furious maelstrom, carrying their ship away in one direction, pushing the ocean waters in a forceful blow in the opposite, leaving Penelope screaming her husband's name in desperation as they're pulled apart once more.

Odysseus' answering scream of horror carries on the wind back to them, and then nothing at all.

#odyssey #odysseus #penelope #odypen #reverse odyssey au #eurylochus #polites #yall didnt think this was over did u :)#tried to put in as much of canon as i could. hence the shy lmao #telemachus #the whole kingdom of Ithaca versus the fucking sea

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hollowed-theory-hall · 2 months

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Hi! I love your theories, and I spent too long reading everything I could find on your blog on Harry and V specifically, and bc I fell into a ship hole and can't seem to get out, here's a random question for you! Do you ship Tomarry or Harrymort in any way? Is it believable for you that it could happen? I mean, most of the time people tend to ship hermione with Tom Riddle, with the excuse that she's super smart, but I think Tom Riddle would despise her actually. Harry's not book smart, but he's very intuitive, he's clever and he's cunning, they could fit I think 🤔. Also they have shit lives, and they've been through similar things (not everything), and that'd enable them to understand each other and all. And Harry is annoyingly stubborn, so Tom/V would have a hard time manipulating him or forcing him by other means (like spells or potions), and he's observant and suspicious enough to notice random little clues and trusts his instincts so he wouldn't be blindly in love either? Sorry I'm rambling, I'd like to hear your thoughts about this if you have some? (If you don't ship it, no problem, I don't want to come across as if I'm trying to rant or complain or anything)

Have a good day!!

Thank you so much 🥰

As with all ship asks, ship whatever you ship and have fun, these are just my subjective opinions. Also, no, you don't come across as complaining.

So, real talk, I do enjoy tomarry/harrymort. This ship has some of the most well-written fics I came across in all my various fandoms and it has a special place in my heart. But my thoughts on this pairing are complicated.

To summarise I think this pair can be narrativly delicious. We got distorted parallel mirrors, both of them outright say how much they understand each other, how they know each other better than anyone else. They are narrative foils in many ways, having similar enough backgrounds but making different choices leading down different paths. It also helps these two are in my top 5 favorite characters in the series, so pairing them up is somewhat natural since it gets interesting results.

But, I don't think canon Harry and Tom/Voldemort would actually work as a couple realistically (or at least in a healthy way). Like, even without their history and specific circumstances in the story, ignoring everything and just thinking about how I see their personalities, I think they'd get on each other's nerves if they tried to date. They'd try to kill each other, completely independent of any prophecy.

Now to make a short story long:

(I'll be using the name "Tom" but it refers to Tom at any stage in his life)

First, yes, they do understand each other and have the potential for really seeing each other in a way that others rarely see them. I mean, Harry has Ron and Hermione, but they don't get it the way Tom would. They don't understand loneliness and abuse the way someone who lived through it would. I mean, these two clearly don't know what to do when Harry jokes about ducking his uncle's fists besides looking at him with concern. With Tom, Harry wouldn't have to worry about this. Tom would also not be concerned about Harry's darker more ruthless tendencies, allowing Harry to actually be Harry.

Tom, for his part, is a very lonely character who is looking for companionship and compassion, two things Harry can give. But Tom is unyielding in basically everything, he is incredibly prideful and independent. While he wants a connection, he doesn't really know how to trust and open up, to give a bit of himself that is necessary for relationships which is going to be a struggle for them.

Harry is one of the only characters (if not the only one) Tom sees as an equal or a potential equal. Tom really doesn't respect many people (regardless of blood or magical skill) but he does grow to respect and even fear Harry by book 7. This respect is important for any relationship, but especially when it comes to Tom Riddle, who just wouldn't really take anyone lesser than him seriously. And he thinks 99% of beings are lesser than him, so, that's a point in their favor.

Additionally when we think of the narrative, like, god, this can be juicy. We have two powerful and capable individuals who are basically bound together on every possible level. They are bound by magic, having brother wands that actively don't want to fight each other. They are bound by fate with a prophecy interwinding their lives together. After Tom's resurrection, they are bound by blood and they are bound by soul due to Harry being Tom's Horcrux. They literally share a soul, like, that's insane. They share dreams and memories and get each other in a way few could.

And they are very fixated on each other and can't really escape the other's influence. Tom is obsessed with killing Harry and no one but him is allowed to do it. He even goes as far as stipulating he wants to kill Harry while dueling him properly when Harry has his wand. This is something that shows, again, his respect for Harry. And Harry sees dealing with Voldemort as his responsibility. Tom Riddle is his to deal with and no one else's.

Like, it lends itself to a very dramatic very entertaining story naturally. A messy one for sure, but fun.

All that being said, when I actually think about how I see their respective personalities and what they would want/need from a relationship, I don't think they are very compatible below the surface.

Yes, Tom needs someone who he'll respect, but that partner needs to have some (a lot of) give. They need to be able to work around Tom's 10 million personality complexes without him feeling like he is being fixed. Tom needs to feel like he is getting his way, so his potential partner needs to either be very subtle or put a lot of effort into making Tom dateable (which I talked about more here). The thing is, Harry is just as stubborn and unrelenting as Tom more often than not. These two both have the same complex from a lack of control over their lives in childhood that results in very stubborn people who will fight tooth and nail to get their way and a general distrust of people. This is a recipe for them butting heads often, especially with their different worldviews and how they see people.

Like, both of them would never bow down to anyone. They don't know how to take a backseat. Sure, Harry says he doesn't want all the danger and attention, and he doesn't, but he would be able to sit and do nothing against what he feels is wrong, he is used to carrying an impossible burden on his shoulders. And he takes a leadership rule easily and naturally. Tom is used to getting his way, he is used to being able to either intimidate or charm what he wants out of everyone, something his partner should be immune to, but I think Harry would rile him up worse, instead of putting a stop to the behavior. Like, Tom would just try harder to break Harry before trying something else would cross his mind because Harry would make a sassy comment that would get Tom emotionally invested. He's going to get his pride and self-worth hinging on breaking Harry's resolve, and he is going to fail. Neither of them would ever be happy in the shadow of the other and it's going to be a constant push and pull with these too. Now, this sort of dynamic can be very compelling in fic, it's a fun story about a relationship that is truly insufferable to be around.

Neither of them is particularly emotionally intelligent or capable of emotional vulnerability. Like, Harry, who didn't know why Cho was crying after Cedric died, would need to be the person carrying the emotional tool in this relationship, and, like, I love Harry, but navigating emotionally volatile situations (specifically romantic ones) is not one of his many skills. Tom is even more useless in this department, he sure can recognize emotions in others, but he repeatedly underestimates emotional attachment, both in himself and others because his conceptions about friendship and love are all skewered. And with romance, he would be so much worse.

Add to all of that the fact both of them have one hell of a temper and it's more likely that they'd blow up at each other rather than talk shit out.

And then there is how I think they'll behave when they actually are in a relationship. As I talked about here, Tom is a sentimental and possessive person. When it comes to romance, I think Tom would want a person to be his, he'd be obsessed and controlling while simultaneously wanting to remain independent and do his own thing. He'd be a nightmare. And Harry, well, Harry would handle the independent, doing his own thing quite well, since I think Harry is the same. Even in a relationship, he'd need to keep his own independence and freedom, and that's where Tom's controlling nature is going to butt heads with Harry's distaste for any controlling figure.

I think Tom would struggle with Harry's lack of ambition too. Because Harry is clever, powerful, has the makings of greatness, and is an equal to Tom, but he isn't planning on doing anything with it. This would infuriate Tom, honestly. I think Tom would find many of Harry's passions (like Quidditch) frivolous and useless and would probably tell him that, which Harry would fight him on.

Harry's sassy nature, would also, get under Tom's skin if it's directed at him, Tom takes himself too seriously to make fun of himself and take a joke. However, he would appreciate these same comments when directed at others. Tom has a sense of humor, but he wouldn't make fun of himself, especially not a younger Tom Riddle when he's still in school.

There are aspects that would work, though, I think Harry would be willing to listen to Tom going on about whatever quite intently, and Tom would love that. Harry can pay a lot of attention to people he cares about, but he can also get distracted and just not hear anything being said to him (he tunes out some of Ron and Hermione's conversations regardless of his love for them. It can happen when you get used to being around someone) which Tom would hate. Although Harry would find Tom's monologing kinda annoying at a certain point, I think.

I think Tom would do good for Harry's self-esteem issues since Tom wouldn't accept Harry thinking of himself as average when he is equal to Tom. Harry would be pretty good for Tom's weird prideful self-hatred and could probably help push for an arc there. Both by showing Tom actual affection and by keeping his ridiculous ego in check.

I also think Harry would appreciate someone being protective over him and wanting him so much as someone who grew up feeling unwanted and like he never had anyone in his corner. And Tom, I believe, would be protective and possessive in a relationship (a little too much, but still).

Basically, both of them (but mostly Tom) need work before they can make a relationship between them work, and that's before looking at their history in the books which will always require some canon-divergence or AU to make this pairing work. Very possible, but it takes effort. Most of said effort goes into forcing them to talk properly, honestly, because Tom really wants Harry, his one failure, dead. Like, Harry would shockingly be the easier one to convince of this, I think. Like, he was willing to forgive Tom, he already sees him as a person and not a bogeyman. Plus, he thinks Tom is hot (the younger one at least). Tom (as Voldemort, during the series), as I said, sees Harry not as Harry but as a representation of his own failings, and until he gets that out of his head, I can't really see this relationship working.

When it comes to the "Harry time travels to the 1940s and goes to Hogwarts with Tom" fics it's easier to get them together because Tom has fewer complexes, but it's still not easy (Sure, he doesn't have 10 million complexes, just 7 million instead). So even then Harry has his work cut out for him and this relationship would be a trainwreck that might take collateral damage in the form of everyone around them being miserable with their bullshit.

The key point in all scenarios I mentioned is that Harry needs to actively pursue Tom because otherwise, it won't happen. Because Tom isn't going to pursue it on his own unless some AU reason pushes him to do so. I can see him getting obsessed with Harry easily in various circumstances, but while he'd pursue his obsession, I don't think it would cross his mind to date Harry. Not on his own, I just don't see Tom coming up with it without something to help him get there. Maybe (again in a time travel scenario) a younger Tom could pursue a fake relationship in pursuit of his obsession, but Harry would fight against it because he'd see through him. I also find it hard to imagine Harry pursuing this relationship with Tom through all of Tom's bullshit. I don't think Harry has the patience for that (unless he has a specific reason to do so).

I don't think Harry would pursue this relationship to begin with either. As I mentioned, emotional intelligence and romance in particular are not Harry's strong suits. He could be in love and not notice it because he shrugged it up to something else and he has more pressing things to worry about. If he does notice, he might try to pursue it, but it again depends on the AU or specific situation. I think he could flirt if he set his mind to it, but whether that's effective with Tom depends on which point in Tom's life we're talking about...

I wrote here about the trope of Tom finding out Harry is his Horcrux and, honestly, what I wrote there applies to any potential romantic relationship between them too. Especially if this trope is relevant in the getting-together stage.

All of this is without talking about the elephant in the room of their specific age difference that I'm kinda ignoring. In the books it's a difference of 54 years, which is a lot, but hey wizards and in fic scenarios, Harry can be an adult or they can be the same age, or, well, in fic you can do whatever even when said whatever situation would be messed up irl. I mean, irl I would never advocate for anyone to sleep with their parents' murderer, but this is fanfiction we're talking about so it doesn't really matter. It does mean that this isn't the kind of pairing that I think could be canon or even canon-adjacent. And though I like it better than Drarry in many ways, it's way less likely to happen than Drarry in the canon books as they are.

So, yeah, I like Tomarrry/Harrymort. It's fun, it's juicy, it's dramatic, it has great fics for it out there, but can it realistically happen without some AU? Not really.

(Also, you mentioned Tom and Hermione so I'll add in a little aside that I think that pair will get along worse than Tom and Harry. I think they would misunderstand each other a lot. And Tom, contrary to popular belief isn't going to appreciate someone who's trying to prove he isn't the smartest person in the room. I also think Tom wouldn't like Hermione's attitude over basically anything. I think Hermione would disapprove of Tom's general disregard for others' lives and well-being as well, and she would take more offense at it than Harry. I think Hermione is more likely to get intimidated by Tom than Harry too. Like Hermione would startle at something Tom says whereas Harry would call out his bluff)

#harry potter #hp #voldemort #tom riddle #lord voldemrot #harry james potter #tomarry #harrymort #hp meta #harry potter meta #i guess #hollowedtheory #anonymous #asks #ship talk

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lxmelle · 2 months

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It’s worth noting that the draft & final version of the KFC breakup scene tie to the same scene where Riko is being carried by Gojo. The message is similar. One was a draft after all.

I’m not & don’t wish to be involved in discourse over ships, but the bottomline is that Gojo could’ve ended Geto’s life at any time. I’m sure Geto knew that. He was waiting for Gojo to intervene; hence, the “you’re late Satoru”.

Just demonstrating how the dialogue in both the draft & the final version tie back into the same scene.

オマエは悪くない - used in this context, Gojo responded to Geto’s words saying that it didn’t matter if he was ok, since Riko lost her life, and it carried the meaning “it’s not your fault”.

「君に殺られるのなら悪くない」is the drafted version meaning, “to be killed by you, wouldn’t be a bad thing.”

The use of 悪くない can be don’t mind/OK.

But, if it is meant to draw a parallel w/ the scene in HI, then it implies that Geto is giving Gojo permission/will not fault him. He then moves onto say that Gojo should “be careful” not to kill anyone else but him, as he disappears.

Moving into the final version…. In HI Geto implies it’d be meaningless 意味がない to cull the civilians as they’re just followers

And that meaning is very important as a sorcerer.

Thus the one that made the final scene is Geto imploring Gojo to decide himself & it’s reminiscent of their exchange. Just as Gojo signs to stop him, he says: Kill if you want to kill, there would be meaning/意味がある

So Gojo is left to think about their exchange in either version.

It should have achieved the same thing from Gojo’s perspective either way.

If we think back to the first exchange, Geto stops Gojo from harming the innocents; he wants Gojo to stay true to it. The message is still “I won’t blame you if you kill me”. Whenever that is.

It’s interesting that Geto goes onto do what he preached: he kills Sonoda and Sonoda alone shortly after.

And just in case we need a reminder of who Sonoda is:

He, too, acted out what his message to Gojo was. I think he knew he deserved death & that Gojo should believe that it wouldn’t be a bad thing if he did.

Gojo’s first “human” life (not curse) he took was Toji’s. We dunno why he went after him when he said he didn’t want revenge. Was it to test his powers? Finish the battle? Regardless, Riko & Kuroi were avenged w/ Toji & Sonoda dead. They each avenged her death.

He also knew Gojo had the capacity in him to kill humans. Hence, phrases like “you could do it, Satoru” & “if I could be you” & “unlike you I’m soft/kind” & “there would be no meaning” have all been said by Geto to Gojo. So in my mind, he clearly wanted Gojo to kill him. It could’ve been appropriate for Gege to use the drafted version as a way for Geto to reiterate his message to Gojo all along - don’t kill humans. You stay on your path and fight for humans and I’ll descend as the monster because I can’t be a sorcerer.

He left the method & moment to kill him entirely up for Gojo to decide.

So if that is Gege’s intention for Geto to communicate to Gojo… The final version of their exchange may have been better because Geto didn’t dictate that Gojo should be careful not to kill anyone. And it wouldn’t sound like a threat / taunt where he’s warning Gojo not to open fire then & there. At most, I can imagine he wished to see Gojo respect him as a friend. But realistically, Geto had already accepted his death. And if he cared that much about his ideology and his ideology alone, he would’ve asked Gojo to “kill me now!” And be happy that humans died. “Or come with me!” And whoopee, his ideals could be realised. But he didn’t.

So it leads me to believe he wanted to let Gojo’s hand go like on the Ao no sumika cover. And not drag him down. And Gojo honoured that love Geto had for him although it was hard on them both. Gojo understood.

And honestly I don’t believe Geto necessarily harmed humans indiscriminately either. He seemed to embody the belief that only those who deserve to die should die, even if he said he wanted to force evolution and tried his best to self-affirm that he hated humans. He believed Gojo should do the same especially on his own path as a sorcerer, not curse user. Thus the advice of “be careful not to kill anyone other than me” was not misplaced.

Over time Geto might’ve come to believe that that was one of the reasons why Gojo didn’t fire at him then and there. Which is also why we saw Kenny recollect that scene and cook up that plan to seal Gojo in the box. But he was wrong and that 1% chance of Gojo opening his domain happened - Gojo took a calculated risk against humans “for the better good”.

More blabbing here if you’re interested: https://www.tumblr.com/lxmelle/755427466440491008/just-some-thoughts-about-satosugu-and-how-they

#just my thoughts #yes I need to empty my brain sometimes #satosugu #satosugu brainrot #jujutsu kaisen #gojo satoru #geto suguru #stsg #jjk spoilers #jjk analysis #jjk meta #Satosugu theories #jujutsu kaisen analysis #jjk satosugu #jjk #satosugu angst #jjk drafts

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titaniumions · 2 months

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i think it's probably somewhat clear that i see isolde and kakania as lesbians (seems to be a common hc anyway) but i think i want to explore how that'd fit into their respective characterizations, not necessarily only from a shipping standpoint. note that this does get into headcanon territory, still i try to keep it as in-character as i can

i think kakania would actually be pretty open about it. in the 1910s?? i mean sure, she's already a controversy as she is ... an arcanist, an uncertified psychiatrist with unconventional methods, an outspoken member of society who stirs up public opinion. might as well give herself one more reason to be a subject of controversy. those who are set on hating her probably have no intention of changing that, so hey, might as well authentically be herself in every possible way including this. among those who have a more positive opinion about her, i do think this would make her somewhat of an icon. she draws other members of the community toward her. she lets them know that she is there for them and will fight for them. that they can turn to her and she will not scrutinize them for it. she'd tell them, no, there is nothing wrong with being this way. it isn't something you need to be "cured" from

in line with this, i think it would make sense for the "circle" to be a queer safe space. in fact, i like to think theophil himself could've been bi and thus would've accepted his sister's sexuality. but due to her own inhibitions (which i will touch upon later) i don't think isolde would ever have told him.

meanwhile for isolde ... i think it's more complicated. having a sexuality outside of the norm would be a deviation from the socially acceptable definition of the "perfect noble" she tries to be. so even if she were to ever consider it, she would simply end up pushing those thoughts away. no, not a chance. this shouldn't bother her at all. she's supposed to be perfect, yet she already has enough problems in her life as a member of the dittarsdorf family. considering the possibility of herself being anything but straight would lead to more problems, wouldn't it? and that's the last thing she needs. nonetheless she's ... never been attracted to a man either. but she tries not to think too much of it. maybe she just needs to wait it out. or so she tells herself

now to piece it all together ... i do really like the idea of kakania being her ... awakening. in fact i think it would make a lot of sense for her story, what with kakania being the metaphorical key to the doors that have always surrounded and confined isolde ... so hear me out. when isolde started associating with her and the circle she realized that it felt far less suffocating than ... pretty much any other aspect of her life. it's like a breath of fresh air. kakania in particular would fascinate isolde, in a way that makes isolde question things about herself. perhaps she even comes close to having a realization. but again, isolde remembers who she needs to be, and stops herself short.

eventually though, she would learn what kind of person kakania is, and what she believes in and fights for. this only deepens isolde's admiration further and she finally comes to a point of acceptance about her feelings. alright. i can accept this realization now. she no longer pushes it to the back of her mind. there's still a bit of repression and shame left in there but meeting someone who has not only awakened her, but also wouldn't judge her for it, has changed something within her entirely. the feelings overflow and she can deny it no longer. but again, at the end of the day she still needs to be perfect and socially acceptable. she can't just ... exist as freely as kakania does. but it's alright, isolde has feigned compliance for so long regardless of however difficult it might be. putting up with expectations has been a regular part of her life. so there it is, something authentic about this actor that she can't show to anyone else because it doesn't fit the part that she's supposed to play. kakania is allowed to know though, of course she is. it can just be their little secret. and one way or another, she'll figure out how isolde feels toward her. surely kakania would be quite honored to be on the receiving end of the affection of such a wonderful lady. as long as this affection doesn't eventually turn into a catalyst for destruction, right ...

#reverse 1999 #r1999 #kakania #isolde #isokania #ermmmmmmmmmmmm. yeah guys here's the Lesbian Essay alright #at this point i'm considering writing fic #even though i feel like plot isn't exactly my strong suit #nonetheless if you read through this entire word salad. i hope you enjoyed it #and i hope it makes Sense #i want to sort out more of my thoughts #i don't play when it comes to hyperfixation. i will dissect them. i will understand them

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goomyloid · 4 months

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PLEASE explain your thoughts on kriselle in full detail

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS 100% UNPROMPTED ASK! I SHALL EXPLAIN

i hate toby fox. why did he do this to us. he really put it better than anyone else. not really romantic not really platonic but…. something else… some secret more sinister more heartfelt more absurd third thing

i wonder at what point should i clarify that i dont even really seek out kriselle in a romantic context… DONT GET ME WRONG i have zero issues with the ship whatsoever and all of the krisellers out there are living their best (most painful) lives and i SEE THE APPEAL. BUT when i rotate them in my brain i dont need them to kiss or anything like that i just need them to sit down and sadly hold hands and stay like that forever and ever. in case you couldnt gauge that from my art so far

tldr i dont think i ship them in the traditional sense at least …. the things that i usually fixate on for any romantic ship are not there with these two. there are no romantic feelings there In my mind. and all at the same time i start screaming and throwing up and killing myself (all positive) whenever i see them even in the same image together. hngh

ive tried explaining this to people before and they usually suggest something along the lines of a QPR and even that doesnt feel right to me. truly the best way i can put it is… that red string of fate man… which i almost hesitate on saying too because i dont actually know if noelle is Quite an important enough character to the story to warrant a connection like that. WHICH IS A CRAZY THING TO SAY. I KNOW. DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT GETTING ME WRONG i think dess and her connections to gaster and her usage as a stepping stone into the weird route are all VERY important… but in my brain its just not kris/knight/asriel/every other mysterious main focus of the story Important. i didnt mean to get into deltarune theorizing here i hope nobody’s blood is boiling rn

so yeah in the end. toby fox once again put it best. they are friends, but they are also something else.

back to the actual pairing though… sometimes i think im going overboard and overestimating how close kris and noelle were as children because noelle will go and say things like “i wonder if we were ever really friends at all.” which is kind of a fair statement considering the circumstances. sure they played together and all and tagged along with their siblings to do stuff together but when dess went missing… it all kind of stopped. kris is just a kid, they dont know what to do or even how to process it, much like noelle. asriel is probably dealing with his own feelings, he just lost his friend and likely old enough to understand the weight of what happened. while noelle and kris cant say much to each other at all.

im always back and forth on speaking headcanons for kris but the one that i always seem to come back to is selective mutism… to me kris had a lot of trouble communicating well as a child and could only grow comfortable around certain people, asriel and noelle being clear examples because they’re both so patient with them. maybe because of this noelle felt like they could understand each other without really needing words, and just physical interaction was enough to achieve some form of closeness… or maybe that was all just on her end, she thinks when kris goes to play the piano. but if that’s the case, why does it feel like a concert just for her…?

jesus dont even get me start on them as teenagers either. noelle has lost her sister, and now kris has lost their brother… but not in the same way. they look at each other and wonder if they’re the same now. or, maybe thats too cruel. maybe its not the same thing at all. asriel’s coming back soon, after all. it will all be over soon, kris won’t have to feel this way for much longer, right? so then, why does kris look so miserable, sitting in the corner over there? all noelle feels like she can do is sit next to them quietly. to be there, and to somehow, vaguely, messily help each other. the misfit kids that dont really know how to talk to each other and yet understand each other regardless

thats why the dark world feels like such a dream to her. these crazy city lights, fantastical creatures, susie’s there, and she actually might have the means to defend herself and stand her ground, whether it be verbally or… otherwise

and most of all, much like with kris offering an adventurous haven to susie in ch1, the same is extended to noelle. by kris’s side, no less. it feels like theyre doing things together again, and its fun, and nostalgic… she wants to bring dess. and i think its okay to assume kris wants to bring asriel, too. recreating the make-believe world they lost so long ago… is it really possible?

no… how can it really be possible, when this isnt kris? something is wrong. its almost perfect, except kris… it’s them, but it’s not. she sees their face, their expressions, their laughs, their worries. and yet the voice that comes from them… isnt them. and it scares her! even if nothing particularly bad happened as a result. and if something bad DID happen, well…

she just wants what they had before back. is it really so impossible? can they reconcile after all these years? does kris want to? is kris capable of doing so? maybe they just need to hug again. will it feel like a real hug? the person she thought she understood is acting in ways she doesnt understand. they’re telling her to do weird things. they cycle through actions as if they just want to know what happens. and they cant even play piano anymore.

#mailbox #im gonna kill myself #kriselle #long post

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theshadowsingersraven · 3 months

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Can I just say that as someone who is in this for Azriel's HEA primarily, E/riels are most frequently the ones who remove his depth in favor of their ship? And it drives me insane. I've interacted with a few, probably 4-5, that can at least agree that he has a tendency to go for unattainable women/women he puts on a pedestal. A few can at least agree he has a very apparent hero complex.

But a lot of them, especially on Tiktok, will not entertain any analysis at all if it's even neutral towards their ship. They refuse to believe Azriel has a clear hero complex, and that it's not a coincidence that he has a pattern of trying "save" a female from one of Beron's sons. First Mor with Eris, now Elain with Lucien. They refuse to believe he's biased and is likely projecting his own perceived "failures" to protect his mom, too.

But that's what makes him so interesting to me! The way he falls into these self-punishing patterns. The way he projects his frustrations outwards and thinks nothing of himself and how jealous and lonely that makes him. And they ignore all of that! Gwynriels, Eluciens, and Azrises have all been willing to at least hear these types of analysis.

But E/riels ignore that Azriel, base level, is actually pretty kind and considerate. Yes, he absolutely has walls and walls built up and a mask perpetually, so it's not easy to see. Yes, he tortures people as part of his job. So those things definitely helped hide those traits, but he thing that clued me in was the first time he was vulnerable with Feyre. When she confessed that she didn't feel like she belonged anywhere as a Made fae, Azriel tells her that after 500 years, he doesn't feel like he's found where he belongs either.

And given that Azriel, per Rhys, is nearly impossible to make "break" or say anything he doesn't want to, that reads to me as genuine. He's willing to let that guard down a little bit if it means he can help someone. And that's only the first moment he has with her.

But E/riels will insist that everything he did for Elain is special, that he wouldn't do it for anyone else.

I'm sorry, Mr. "Be careful how you speak about my High Lady" wouldn't go save Feyre or Nesta in Hybern? He wouldn't give Feyre or Nesta Truth-Teller to protect themselves once he saw them refuse Cassian’s knife and determine they needed something more to feel comfortable? He wouldn't sit and talk with Feyre or Nesta for a long time about their interests, despite the fact that Azriel and Feyre played a game at Rita's where they bet on which person in the club would try to make a move on Rhys? He wouldn't spend time with Nesta even though he got her a thoughtful book light and accepted her hug? Even though she is the only person we've seen him directly mention loving, literally from his own mouth, per CC3?

He would. He would do that. Azriel is traumatized and externally cold, yes, but it's clear he is generally thoughtful and considerate towards the Inner Circle. Those are his people. Actively taking away his depth by lessening his kindness in favor of a ship is such a disservice to his character and the hints that we have towards what I believe will be his later complexity.

#pro azriel #anti e/riel #anti ewriel #antielriel #azriel acotar #cc3 spoilers

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mamamittens · 1 year

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How Our Seeds Grow (Pt. 2)

Platonic Yandere Whitebeard Pirates & young!GN!Reader

Main|First|Next

Warnings: Emotional distress, a very naked snail, and minor blood.

Ah! Almost forgot, for those that asked to be tagged: @iggy5055 @badluckinfrench (idk why it won't let me tag you bro, sorry, the minute I got to the 'f' it said no)

Word Count: 2,248

You’d never really considered what you’d do if you did ever run afoul of pirates. The other marines were usually quite good at keeping any real threat far from you, often by bodily tossing you to someone else. And you didn’t know if this was the usual fate of a marine caught by pirates either. It sure didn’t seem like it, but none of the pirates thought it was weird, so what did you know?

You were seated in a medical bay on board their ship clutching the hem of your shirt anxiously. You weren’t injured anymore but dried blood was still smeared over your face and collar. Nose a little stuffed up.

A man with a blue mask over half his face and a kind smile gently wiped your face off with a wet rag as he asked questions. Pheonix taking notes on a clipboard with a pleasant but vaguely fake smile. It didn’t even hurt, the damp, warm fabric just removing any leftover blood from your broken nose. When he was done, he pulled out a few tissues.

“Have you had any shots? Blow your nose into this and we’re done with that—” Deuce ordered softly, holding the tissues over your nose firmly as you followed his instructions.

“Nnn—I don’t know? I think so?” You whined, ears popping as your nose itched, now free of any leftover blood. Deuce winced and tossed the tissues away, wiping your face clean one last time. You rubbed your nose, wrinkling it with a grimace as the sensation faded. “…thanks.” You mumbled, still unsure about what you’re supposed to do.

You certainly couldn’t run. Where would you go? The ship had left port a few minutes ago and until that point you'd been carried or had a hand on your shoulder. You couldn’t call for help, the fight with Fire Fist was loud enough that anyone who could hear would have already shown up. And you definitely couldn’t fight.

Deuce smiled softly, patting your head.

“That’s alright, kid. We can figure out the rest later.” He reassured you. “What do you like to do? We’ve got a lot of stuff on the Moby Dick for all sorts of hobbies. And plenty of people willing to teach you if you don’t know how to do them.” He kneeled down so he was looking up at you, no longer towering over you despite sitting on an exam table.

You swallowed hard, wringing your shirt in uncertainty.

“I-I’m a marine? I don’t got time for hobbies. I clean or I train or I go on patrols.” You explained lamely. You’d seen some marines do things in their downtime. Like knit or read. Some gambled. But you’d always been kept busy and unable to really get to know the others on any base you were stationed at.

Deuce’s expression fell, Pheonix keeping his gaze fixed on the clipboard in his hands—but he gripped it hard enough you could hear the whine of the board under stress. Deuce cleared his throat, smile returning.

“Well! I guess that just means you get to try everything! You’re too young for any serious training.” Deuce explained cheerfully, tapping your nose.

“Bring-ring. Bring-ring. Bring-clack!” your snail called out as you scrambled to answer quickly, pulling him free from your pocket.

“H-Hello! E—”

“Where are you?! Ensign Williams was found passed out in the marketplace! It was supposed to be a simple patrol—you can’t just go running off because you feel like it!” Someone you think you recognized as the base captain’s assistant shrieked, tears pricking your eyes as you cleared your throat.

“U-Uhm… we were on patrol when my partner and I got orders to confront Fire Fist and to run if he was accompanied by another Whitebeard Pirate. W-Williams was beaten and… the Pheonix took me?” You mumbled, face red as you refused to look up.

“What?! Who the fuck gave that order—Never mind! You need to return to base immediately for punitive assignment, ensign!” You sniffed, tears falling as you impulsively choked out a strained cry,

“How?!” you sobbed anxiously as the snail was plucked from your hands. Through foggy glasses, you saw it was Pheonix but his expression was blurred.

“No.” Pheonix stated simply, his voice hard as you rubbed your eyes. “They won’t be returning, period. So, consider this their resignation.” Your chest tightened while Deuce rubbed your back, whispering into your ear.

“Easy, kid. You’re not in trouble—we won’t let them have you back, I promise.”

“But I gotta!” You whined, Deuce tutting as he pulled down your hands to wipe your face with the rag.

“No, no, no, you really don’t. It’s not your fault, alright?”

“ON WHO’S ORDERS?!” the vaguely familiar voice screeched.

“Ours.” There was a crunch of metal and a hand gently opened your palm. The snail’s firm weight notably lighter. You pulled back from Deuce’s attempt to clean your face, clumsily putting your glasses back to look.

The snail, a pleasant crème color, was missing his standard issue shell. Visibly shaking from either fright or a chill.

“O-Oh no, Cream, you’re naked!” You cried in despair, Deuce choking out a laugh. You jerked, remembering suddenly that you weren’t allowed to name the snails or get attached.

Pheonix kneeled down and stroked your cheek fondly. That familiar sensation of bated breath and birdsong in your chest almost reassuring in it’s intensity.

“Don’t worry, we’ve got some spare shells in storage. None that let you make calls though.” He reassured you as you placed your hand over Cream’s naked back. He looked a little relieved, ducking his head as much as he could in the small space you provided. “Think you can clean up the rest on your own? Ace should have found spare clothes by now.”

You sniffled.

“I-I have to wear a uniform though…” You objected. “It’s mine.”

Just about the only thing you did own, actually, besides pet treats. Even Cream was actually the base’s snail.

Pheonix’s expression twisted again into something sad and deeply troubled as he glanced over your uniform.

“Well… I doubt we can take off the letters, so the hat has to go… but you can keep this. How does that sound? We’ll get you new clothes soon.” Pheonix reassured you while gently tugging the blue fabric free from your shirt collar. He moved your hand and placed it over Cream with a soft smile.

You ducked your head shyly.

“…alright.”

Fire Fist trampled into the room with a bundle of clothes in his arms.

“Found it! A little big but these should fit just fine!” Fire Fist declared as he handed you the bundle, wrinkling his nose at the very naked Cream. “Uh, why’s the snail naked?”

Cream ducked under the blue fabric, skin turning a soft pink hue.

“Hey! Don’t be mean, he’s shy!” you protested before thinking better of it, though rather than take offense, Fire Fist held up his hands and laughed.

“Sorry, sorry! I just never see these guys without a shell—what happened?”

“Run along now, baby bird. Deuce will show you where to clean up while we help fit… Cream with a new shell.” Pheonix helped you off the table and picked up Cream with a slightly embarrassed look. Fire Fist almost asked again, it was clear on his face, but Pheonix glared and it was dropped. Deuce gently pushing you out of the room and towards a private bathroom.

“Take your time, alright kiddo?” Deuce told you softly as he closed the door, letting you have privacy. It was a modest bathroom and you took full advantage. Having the chance to take your time not something you’ve been afforded for a while since the bases have shared bathing areas and your partners were rarely patient enough to wait for long.

It felt weird not getting dressed in a clean uniform. The old one ripped up and dirtied from the marketplace. Your alternative a baggy white shirt with Whitebeard’s jolly roger and shorts that tied at the waist. You looked at the blue neckerchief that Pheonix was allowing you to keep, considering where to where it. The shirt didn’t have a collar to tie it around. Your wrists were too thin unless you wrapped your forearm. It was thankfully clean despite your bloodied nose.

After a long moment, you looked at the mirror.

You looked tired. Eyes red from crying behind your broken glasses but otherwise clean.

It felt wrong to wear this anywhere but your neck.

Decisively, you tied it around your neck like a bandana, pleased to find that you could pull it up over your chin easily. It wasn’t too tight or loose, the weight reassuring in the absence of the layered uniform collar.

Sadly, you folded up your old uniform and held it to your chest. Standing before the door as your heart raced. You weren’t sure why they decided to take you with them and the sudden change in routine was frightening—something you reluctantly admitted to yourself as you stared at the bathroom door.

They were nice but… if you could, you’d go back to the base right that minute. Even if it meant being given chores as punishment for ‘running away’. At least you knew what to expect on base. This pirate ship was a whole new situation though.

There was a yip from the other side of the door and nails scratching the wood.

“Hey! Don’t rush them, Stefan! Let the poor kid take their time.” Fire Fist chastised Stefan softly, a low whine echoing with a few, last petulant drags of nails on wood.

Taking a deep breath, you opened the door, still clinging to your old uniform with your eyes fixed to the floor.

“…hi.”

There was a shift of fabric and boots as suddenly Fire Fist squatted down low with a soft smile.

“Hey, kiddo. You alright? Nice bandana, it looks good on you.” He remarked, an almost understanding look in his eyes. Your chest ached and you shook your head before thinking better of it.

“I-I wanna go back. I-I’m going to be in so much trouble…” You whimpered thickly, tears quick to flood your cheeks. There was a flash of a grimace on Fire Fist’s face as he scooped you up, Stefan managing a single lick to your shin.

Fire Fist felt warm and bubbly. A soothing heat like a sun bathed rock on a beach that hugged you close. Hand brushing over your back.

“No, you’re not, c’mon now, no more tears. You can’t be crying into your food—the chef didn’t put teary stew on the menu! It’s not Thatch’s cooking but it’s still pretty good.” Fire Fist soothed you with a soft bounce to his step. “If this is about that uniform, I promise we’ll get you something way better soon! Haven’t you ever wanted to wear something else? Anything else? Whatever you want, you can have, I promise! Cheer up!”

Even through your tears you could smell the thick scent of dinner as a soft voice piped up behind you.

“They’re going to need some time to adjust, Ace. I know it’s hard to see them like this, but you have to let them let it all out. It’s like when you first came on board. Eventually you tired out from it… eventually.” Fire Fist’s grimace was clear despite the haze on your broken lenses. Cheeks pink as he blushed, holding you closer with a sheepish expression. “Think I can take those old clothes now, baby bird?” Pheonix asked softly, tapping the folded pile in your arms.

You felt your lips wobble as you held it tighter to your chest. A sob startled from you as Fire Fist bounced you to get your attention.

“Hey, looks like he wants to trade.” Fire Fist pointed out, jerking his chin towards Pheonix’s other hand. Cream sat in his curled palm, a sea green shell settled on his back. He looked far more comfortable now than he did before, his small arms wiggling towards you as he considered you with some worry.

After a long moment, you relaxed your grip, allowing Pheonix to take your old uniform and trade for Cream.

“…thank you. His new shell looks nice.” You whispered, holding Cream close as he tried to brush away your tears with a soft hum. You curled into Fire Fist’s arm, head tucked under his chin as you couldn’t help a weak sniffle.

“You’re welcome. Now let’s get you two something to eat. We’ll be arriving at the main flagship pretty late.” Pheonix advised as you glanced up at him. He smiled, cupping your face to swipe away a tear with more success than Cream had.

You wanted to reiterate how deeply in trouble you already were but all that you could say was a meek response.

“…okay.”

Pheonix handed off the clothes to Deuce and walked with Fire Fist towards the eating area.

“You’ll like it here with us eventually. Everyone loves it when we get a new baby on board.”

“Oi!” Fire Fist protested sharply. Pheonix grinned sharply, eyes narrowing at Fire Fist.

“Don’t get jealous~ you’re still a baby in Oyaji’s eyes.”

“That’s not what I meant!”

Small nubby arms tapped your chin as Cream tucked himself close to your neck with a reassuring murmur.

Maybe… maybe it wouldn’t be so bad after all. If everyone is like them. Even if they’re pirates.

#one piece #platonic yandere #oh sweet child of mine #how our seeds grow #marco the pheonix #fire fist ace #child reader #gender neutral reader

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