#i loved the sailor moon reference in the first episode

[trojanteapot]

Don't you wish the world was a little bit more magical?

[fiendishartist2]

never watched a full episode of sailor moon in my life <3

[yourfavoritehouseplant]

I watched James Somerton's final video, and all I got was this 6 page document

As soon as I learned his final unreleased video was on Revolutionary Girl Utena, I knew I had to hate watch it. I didn't know that I'd spend the following 4 hours making a comprehensive doc on everything I hated about it. But here we are.

The TLDR (is this too long to be a TLDR?)

The intro section, as well as Part 2, are directly plagiarized from wikipedia. The rest is unclear.

He makes a “haha this show is so weird right guys” joke 10 different times

He reads Anthy as so emotionally stunted she literally has to be taught how to think for herself, and believes that being the rose bride makes her feel good

He says that his reading is ‘vastly different” from the rest of the community, before boldly stating that this is because he sees it as a “deeply allegorical and symbolic story”

He sees the sexual abuse as “not to be taken literally”

Insists that the show be separated into parts that are strictly literal and strictly allegorical for the entirety of parts 3 and 4, before making the contradictory move of analyzing characters as allegories during part 5

The only characters that get dedicated sections are Akio and Dios, who he doesn��t believe are the same person. 

He says Dios gets his powers by “deflowering women”

He calls Akio, known child predator, a chaotic bisexual

Uses 14 year old SA survivor Anthy’s passive personality to make a joke about her being a bottom

His final point is that Utena was the real prince all along

There are no citations

Anyway, full version for people who hate themselves under the cut. With time codes, because I cite my sources.

Part 1: Intro

This entire section is almost exclusively quoted from the Wikipedia article for Revolutionary Girl Utena. Words have been changed, but the order at which certain topics come up is not. Highlights include:

0:56 In his introduction of Be-Papas, lists the founding members in literally the exact same order as Wikipedia.

1:40-2:00 His list of Be-Papas previous works is lifted entirely from wikipedia, only with the words changed. This leads to a strange moment at 1:52 where he claims Be-papas ‘lent their talents to’ Neon Genesis Evangelion, a show which started production at least a year before Be-papas was founded. On the wikipedia article for Utena, this is instead referring to the previous work of Shinya Hasegawa and Yōji Enokido

4:23 he uses a quote by Yūichirō Oguro describing the production as a “tug of war”. He seems to have lifted this in its entirety from Wikipedia, as he does not cite the actual source it is from (the box set companion book, btw)

As for James Somerton originals, at 0:44 he claims that out of all magical girl series,”none to my knowledge have been more discussed and dissected than the 1997 series Revolutionary Girl Utena” He will go back on this at 5:05, where he states that “Sailor Moon takes the lion’s share of discussion” in regard to influential magical girl anime

Part 2: Part 1

(At least I know I’m not funny, unlike James Somerton)

Speaking of which. Here is every single time he makes a “wow this show is sooooo weird you guys” joke: 6:00, 8:50, 10:40, 10:58, 13:46, 17:07, 24:16, 30:34, 41:19, 48:01

Here’s every time the punchline to the joke is the existence of Nanami, a character who he otherwise completely disregards: 10:56, 12:05, 16:22, 42:40

6:16 Claims that the “Apocalypse saga” and “Akio Ohtori saga’ are two names for the same several episodes, depending on the release. This is untrue. Instead, different releases either only have the Apocalypse saga, or split the episodes into an Akio Ohtori saga and then the Apocalypse saga. 

7:58 Claims Utena intervening on Anthy’s behalf begins the first duel. While this happens in the movie, Touga intervenes in the scene he uses clips from (like literally right after the shot he uses in the video). Utena only gets drawn into the duels when Wakaba’s love note to Saionji is posted. Youtuber Noralities’ Utena video also gets this wrong, which makes me wonder if this was copied.

9:09 Claims Akio’s “End of the World” moniker is actually more closely translated to “Apocalypse”. In reality, the translation moves away from a more apocalyptic reading, with 世界の果て (Sekai no hate) apparently translating closer to “the furthest reach of a known world” or “edge of the world”. (Love the implications of this translation, but I digress)

9:10 As can be assumed from the previous point, this means I can’t find any sources that point to them not using the title “apocalypse” for religious reasons

10:10 Uses Anthy’s extreme passivity under her Rose bride persona to make a top/bottom joke. I’m gonna repeat this in case you’re just skimming. He uses a trait that likely stems from years of abuse, (possibly exaggerated by the persona Anthy uses to manipulate people), and uses it to call her a bottom. 

He also just doesn’t seem to understand how the whole point of Utena constantly telling Anthy that she's just a normal girl who should make more friends is framed as Utena imposing her will on Anthy, just as much as the previous Engaged have done. 

11:54 Apologies in advance for my most “um, actually!” point yet, but technically his statement that Anthy stops being host to the Sword of Dios is wrong. Akio literally pulls a sword out of her chest in the final duel. It's a more evil-looking sword of Dios, granted.

13:02 !!! CANTARELLA SCENE ALERT !!! He interprets it as them fighting over Akio?? Which like. I will allow people to have their own interpretations of vague and symbolic scenes. I will. I swear. This is not technically incorrect. It just makes me want to eat my own intestines.

14:44 Bad Anthy take #1: He states Anthy “is emotionally stunted to the point where she needs people to make decisions for her because she does not know how to think for herself” This ignores several moments of Anthy clearly making her own choices throughout the show, including the suicide attempt Somerton mentions about a minute prior. This also strips Anthy of what little agency she has throughout the story, usually exerted through messing with Utena or Nanami. (The fact that she repeatedly makes choices that contribute to her own abuse is, in my opinion, one of the most interesting parts of her character, and it's a shame that Summerton’s ‘reading’ of the story completely disregards that)

Additionally, he once again reads Utena ‘urging Anthy to think for herself” in the first arc as an unambiguously good move, and not as something critiqued in the show.

14:52 Summerton reads the Swords of hatred as symbolizing men’s hatred specifically. Again, I’m trying not to completely disregard differing interpretations to a show like Utena, but this feels very simplistic, especially considering the harm we see aimed towards Anthy by other women

16:42 Here he claims that his reading of the story seems to be “vastly different” from the bulk of Utena discourse. What is this reading? That the show shouldn’t be read literally. Or, in his words, “[we can interpret] Revolutionary Girl Utena as a deeply allegorical and symbolic story about the struggles of coming of age amidst widespread institutional corruption in a high school and which describes a passive culture of inaction in regard to brazen instances of domestic exploitation in which there is not only a question about the caporeality of the events transpiring but also which events can be taken for granted and which events are meant to signify abstract sociological institutions.” The idea that he believes this is in any way a new reading of the material honestly baffles me.

Part 3: Part 2

17:48 through 18:50 differently quotes the Wikipedia article for postmodernism. He even makes a joke at 17:55 about Wikipedia. Please kill me. 

The first three themes he lists at 19:11 are just the three main themes listed on the Revolutionary Girl Utena Wikipedia page. What was that about a “vastly different” reading, James?

You’re gonna have to take my word for it, but this section is so short because it's just him talking about the various ways the story can’t be taken literally. He does, ironically, call this a hot take.

Part 4: Part 3

Here’s where the reading falls apart folks

At 23:15, he states that some things in Utena are allegorically coded, while others are to be taken literally. This is true. However, he seems to take this to mean that some parts of the show are Strictly Literal, while others are Strictly Allegorical for things going on in the Literal World. 

This is apparently why he prefers the Anime to the Movie, where there basically is no separation between the Literal and Allegorical

This take is bizarre to me for several reasons, but here is my favorite. At several points, he mentions how Revolutionary Girl Utena is a work of Magical Realism. Magical Realism is literally defined by its blending of the “literal” and “allegorical”, the mix of fantastical elements in a mundane, realistic setting. This idea of the impossibility of a blurred line, that Utena must either have lore where the magic is all real and means nothing, or dedicated allegory segments quarantined from the rest of the story, is contrary to the very idea of Magical Realism.

I can’t help but wonder if Somerton took his mentions of Magical realism from a previous work, due to how little it is consistent with his final argument. Either way, this section suggests a great lack of creativity in his analysis, a shame for such a creative work.

24:36: Shiori slander, for those who care

After this he gets really worked up about people assuming symbolism in everything, even when the author ‘doesn’t make it clear something is symbolic’. He shuts down a reading of a shot in the Lord of the Rings. Miley Cyrus is there? Very The Curtains Were Blue of him. 

28:22 Claims that Wakaba is the key to telling where the Strictly Literal segments end and the Strictly Allegorical segments begin. He states that, under this lens, deeply personal moments of character suffering such as all of the sexual abuse and Anthy’s suicide attempt (which he literally cites) should be read as symbolic and be “approached with uncertainty rather than confusion”. (28:24-29:13)

This also somewhat falls apart when you consider Wakaba is the jeep in the movie's car chase

And then he rants about people not liking his Attack on Titan video for a bit. Since its potential symbolism also doesn't follow hard enough rules to be symbolism. Once again, the separation of “fact vs allegory” I haven’t watched AOT, so that's all I’ll say.

Part 5: Part 4

Thank god this part is short. Much like Dios’ on-screen presence.

32:55 Makes the extremely bold claim that Dios is not Akio. As in, never even became Akio. because Dios is Strictly Allegorical.

Just to be a pedant, this is pretty explicitly disproven in the show

Confusingly, both earlier and later he will address these two as the same character. 

33:04 he also explains the root of Akio’s name in a tone that suggests this is supplemental information and not like. Literally something he explains out loud in the show?

Part 6: Part 5

This section is nearly entirely about Akio Ohtori. I would like to note that him and Dios are the only characters with dedicated segments.

38:30 The part where he states that Dios gets his powers from deflowering women.

38:46 Claims, once again, that Akio’s abuse of Anthy “may not be literal”. 

38:59 “the instance of exploitation here is used because assault has deep roots as indicating that akio's gender is the source of his imbalance”  THE ASSAULT IS ABOUT AKIO NOW???

39:45 Bad Anthy take #2: “Anthy’s conformity to the Rose bride is based around the fact that she feels good being subservient because this is the only thing in her life that has ever brought her any kind of positive reward”. This is a direct quote. Anyway, I can’t think of any instances in the show where Anthy’s subservience gives her a positive reward, except maybe when she’s intentionally using it to manipulate others. As for her feeling good being the rose bride. She tries to commit suicide. Dude.

Side tangent, but isn’t this exactly what Akio says during the final 2 episodes? That Anthy enjoys being a witch? Is the main villain, who consistently says things during that very episode that are blatantly false, our source of information for this take? I guess so, since this is the dedicated Akio section.

At 40:20 he decides to introduce the concept of Anthy, Akio, and Utena as stand-ins for wider concepts, which is antithetical to his approach in analysis beforehand

Part 7: Part 6

42:40 he finally acknowledges that he’s been spending too much time talking about Akio, and literally no time on characters like Nanami

46:10 states that Utena’s exclusive motivation “is to protect Anthy from the predatorial intentions of the other dualists”, which disregards the fact, which she states herself, that she was largely participating in the duels and protecting Anthy to feel like a prince

48:04 The part where he says that Akio has ‘chaotic Bi vibes’ in regards to him sleeping with Touga, who is 17 and implied to be a long-term victim

Part 8: Part 7

54:01: His concluding point is that Utena was the real prince all along. 

In true Somerton fashion, the video then ends over a scrolling wall of patrons, with not a single citation in sight.

[delphoxqueen]

The Osomatsu-San Iceberg 2.0!

(Click More For Full Explanation)

*- Take Caution When Researching

Tier 1-

Osomatsu-Kun- A Comedy Manga by Fujio Akatsuka which ran from 1962 to 1969 which followed a group of sextuplet (a multiple birth of six children) brothers. It was later adapted into two anime, one by Studio Zero in 1966 and another by Studio Pierrot in 1988 as well as spin-off by Studio Pierrot in 2015 titled “Osomatsu-San” which follows the sextuplets in their 20-somethings as NEETS.

Fourth-Wall Breaks- Osomatsu-San has multiple moments where the characters will break the fourth wall, such as in the first episode where the characters try to be a “proper anime”, or worship Fujio Akatsuka like a god.

Visual Distinguishers- The Matsuno Brothers have multiple visual distinguishers so the audience can more easily tell the brothers apart. Examples include: Signature Color, Hairstyles, and Facial Expressions. The brothers were given different colors supposedly because the character designer couldn’t tell the difference between them.

Parodies + References- The anime makes dozens of parodies and references to other anime/popular media such as Attack on Titan, Saw, Demon Slayer, Naruto, and Sailor Moon. The anime’s extreme popularity in Japan also led to other anime to parody and reference Osomatsu-San including The Disastrous Life of Saiki K, Love Rice, and JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure. Osomatsu-San has too many references to other anime and there’s too many references to Osomatsu-San from other media, so I just included it as one entry.

NEET- A common acronym in Japan which stands for Not in Education, Employment, or Training, but also includes anyone who is not engaged in housework, unemployed, not seeking work, and not in any school or work-related training.

F6- The F6 are the idealized version of the Matsuno brothers that parody pretty-boy anime. The “F” in F6 stands for Fujio, as in Fujio Akatsuka, the creator of the original manga. In the first episode, their first appearance, Ichimatsu transforms into a hybrid stylization of the 2015 anime and the 1966 anime, but in the season finale they are seen alongside the Matsuno brothers, implying they are separate characters.

___Matsu Boys and Girls- The fan term for each of the six brothers, based on Karamatsu’s line calling his fans his “Karamatsu girls and boys”.

Banned 1st Episode- The 1st episode of the anime was banned in Japan due to copyright law, as Japan has no clause for parody and has a more strict interpretation of fair use. It was never confirmed which company filed a copyright infringement against Osomatsu-San, but there is a theory that the Attack on Titan parody was the main culprit. The episode has still not been released on physical media and all streaming services do not carry the first episode, instead beginning the series on the second episode.

The Osomatsu-San Movie- Released on March 15th 2019, the movie follows the brothers traveling back in time to meet their high school selves and to resolve one of the brothers’ biggest regrets.

Collab Ad Campaigns- Osomatsu-San has collaborated with dozens of other brands on merchandise/advertisement campaigns. Many of these collaborations have created special events and merchandise for Osomatsu-San. Examples include: Ministop, Sweets Paradise, Dohtonbori Okonomiyaki, and Sanrio.

Akatsuka’s 80th- Osomatsu-San was created in honor of Fujio Akatsuka’s 80th Birthday and death, having died at 72 in 2008.

Todomatsu Face Meme- In the episode “Todomatsu and the 5 Demons” Todomatsu makes a face at his brothers for talking to the Sutabaa baristas, which has become a meme that has even spread outside the Osomatsu-San fandom.

Tier 2-

Homura-Chan is a Porn Actress- Although nothing is stated outright, it is heavily implied in her first episode appearance that she is a porn actress as Osomatsu finds a porn movie and seems surprised by the cover before going on to have a conversation with Jyushimatsu which Jyushi ultimately avoids.

Karamatsu Wears Contacts- A fun fact that few in the fandom seem to remember is that Karamatsu wears contact lenses. Although he (and all the Matsuno Brothers) have brown eyes, he wears brown contacts, but the presumed reason he wears contacts is because circle contacts (mainly worn by cosplayers and Japanese teen girls) make eyes look bigger and cuter- which is why Osomatsu insults him for wearing them.

Episode 3.5- Also titled “Episode 3.5: Virgin Heroes”, an episode was created to be put on home media releases to replace the 1st episode due to the ban. It is chronologically after Episode 3 but before Episode 4 and has two segments. The first segment features the F6 in a parody commercial, with the second focusing on Choromatsu seeing a group of college kids having a barbecue and being visited by the Cherry Boys (the other five Matsuno brothers in Power-Ranger parody outfits)

BLMatsu- A fandom term for incest ships involving the Matsuno brothers romantically or sexually. BL stands for Boys Love, which is a popular anime and manga term for gay male pairings typically aimed at women. Common ships include OsoChoro and KaraIchi.

Broken Heart Tongue- A small detail in the series is that whenever Jyushimatsu is depicted smiling, his tongue is in the shape of a heart, but in the episode “Jyushimatsu’s Girlfriend” when Jyushimatsu is crying at Chibita’s Oden stand, his tongue is a broken heart.

Matsus Unknown Age- The brothers’ age has never been specified in the Osomatsu-San anime. They are said to “not be older than 24 or 25” and that their parents have been married 24 years and they were born soon after, so they have been assumed to be around 24 but it has never been confirmed.

Girlymatsus not Related- A common misconception in the fandom is that the Girlymatsus are sisters, or the earlier fan theory in Season 1 that they are the Matsuno brothers in drag- but the Girlymatsus were later confirmed just to be friends.

An Anecdote With Horses- An exclusive episode made in collaboration with the Japan Racing Association (JRA) which aired on December 16th, 2016 which featured skits of the Matsuno brothers racing horses.

English Dub Production Issues- After Viz Media acquired the rights to Osomatsu-San, it came out in September 2020 that the English Dub of Osomatsu-San was delayed to be reworked as well as having to replace Christopher Niosi (Choromatsu’s original VA) with Sean Chiplock, due to abuse allegations which Christopher later confessed to.

4th ED is the only ED without stop-motion- While the majority of the Osomatsu-San ending themes feature stop-motion using a variety of items such as toys, clothing, and food; the 4th ending (the second ending of the second season) uses slow-motion footage of paint being dumped onto busts of the Matsuno brothers.

Pine Tree- The kanji for “Matsu” translates to Pine Tree, which is why the pine tree symbol is so frequent in the show’s iconography, such as in the title and on the brothers’ sweaters.

The Hipipo Tribe and The Glistening Fruit- The first of two movies released to celebrate the sixth anniversary of the anime, which features the brothers journeying to find a fruit which grants wishes before encountering the Hipipo Tribe.

Hatabou’s Meat- In the episode “Tell Us, Hatabou”, Hatabou sells meat out of a variety of vendors, but when the brothers ask what kind of meat it is he refuses to answer. Earlier in the episode his employees try to boot him from the company, which leads to his new business venture, implying that the meat is of his former employees though it is never stated outright within the show.

The Soul’s Takoyaki Party and The Legendary Sleepover Party- The second of the two movies released to celebrate the sixth anniversary of the anime, which features the brothers hosting a takoyaki (grilled dough balls with octopus inside with a variety of toppings) party which turns into a sleepover.

Hair Color Change- In the original series Osomatsu-Kun, both the 60s and 80s, the brothers had brown hair but in Osomatsu-San they are depicted with black hair.

Tier 3-

May 24th- The Birthday of the Matsuno Brothers.

Fandubs- Due to the long development time and many delays of the official English Dub, there are multiple fandom dubs of the anime.

Fan Vocaloids- The Osomatsu-San fandom has many popular fan vocaloid covers, some of the most well-known including Matryoshka, Normie Eradication Committee, Rolling Girl, and LOVE 1000%.

Hesokuri Wars/Tabimatsu- Also known as “Osomatsu-San Hesokuri Wars -Battle of the NEETS-“ is tower-defense style strategy mobile game that was released in Japan in 2016 and later being released in English in 2017, before being shut down on October 2nd of 2022 to make way for Tabimatsu. Players would choose a team of 10 characters to fight through stages, with dozens of exclusive events and character variations being released. Many popular AUs in the fandom were inspired by sets released for Hesokuri Wars.

Each Brother’s Name Meaning- Osomatsu translates to lame, or Osoi which means slow- referring to him being the most “basic” of the brothers and lazy. Kara can mean emptiness, referring to his narcissism and chasing his brothers’ approval. Choroi translates to simple, referring to his more average personality. Ichimatsumuyo means checkered pattern (along the lines of a Go board). Jyushimatsu translates to society finch, which are known to be kind like Jyushi. Todomatsu meaning Manchurian fir or “finally”, as “finally” was his catchphrase in the original 60s anime.

Jyushimatsu’s Catchphrase Change- In the first season Jyushimatsu’s main catchphrase was “Muscle Muscle, Hustle Hustle” but in season two and onwards, it was changed more to “Booeh.” There wasn’t any explanation given by the show staff as to why it was changed.

Letter’s Contents- The entire letter Choromatsu had written in “Letter” was never revealed, with only one or two lines spoken by Choromatsu at the beginning of the skit describing what he’d written before later modifying it, leading fans to speculate exactly what was written.

Brothers are pure evil- At the end of the episode “Godmatsu”, in order to defeat Godmatsu the brothers combine their darkness to create Akamatsu. Once Godmatsu is defeated, they absorb only Akamatsu back into themselves, therefore only being made of their evil self. This possibly explains their more violent nature after this point in the series.

AOP Breakup- AOP is an idol group that formed in 2012 under the agency Nikkei Entertainment. The group created multiple songs for the anime, including the theme songs “Zenryoku Batankyu wa Yoiko Dake”, “Hanamaru Pippi wa Yoiko Dake”, “Maboroshi Wink”, and “nice to NEET You!” On December 14th, 2020 the band stated they would be ceasing activities before disbanding in 2021.

Sakurai Drama- Takahiro Sakurai is the original VA for Osomatsu who admitted in 2022 to having cheated on his wife for 10 years, planning to eventually marry his affair partner. Due to this scandal, Osomatsu-San content has been delayed for the past two years.

Religionmatsu- A popular AU which depicts the Matsu brothers as gods, devils, angels, and clergymen. One of the few AUs which was created by the fandom and not inspired by a Hesokuri Wars set.

Sickfics- A fanfiction genre in which one character cares for another who is sick. These fanfics are particularly popular in the Osomatsu-San fandom because of the episode “We Caught a Cold” in which all of the brothers catch a cold and each have a moment to care for the others.

Matsuno Family Dependents- A “wallpaper simulator” type mobile game where the player collects variants of the Matsu brothers and raises them.

Dekapanman- A Parody of Anpanman in which Dekapan dresses up as a hero that gives items from pants to children which was significantly censored due to the controversy and copyright infringement caused by the parody.

Shueisha Manga- Beginning in 2016, a manga series was released alongside the anime. Published by Shueisha in the magazine You from 2016 to 2018 then Cookie from 2018 to 2020 with 10 volumes of stories not featured in the anime.

Only Child Theory- Theory that states that Osomatsu is an Only child with a personality disorder that causes him to develop different personalities that are “his brothers”. As the first known sextuplets to have been born and all survive were born in 1974, many years after the original 60s anime aired. The skit “Sanematsu” is often used as proof for this theory.

Tier 4-

Stage Shows- “Osomatsu-San on Stage: SIX MEN’S SHOW TIME” is a musical adaptation of the original anime, with three seasons matching the anime and having been released on home media.

Episode 10 Controversy- There are some reports of Episode 10 causing controversy upon release for having characters transition to women for personal gain. (Though I will admit, in my research I could not find any comments/posts accusing the show of being transphobic. The only slight criticism I could find was of the ending being too harsh towards Chibita and Iyami’s actions and the episode’s pacing being too slow. I am not claiming that the controversy does or does not exist, or that the episode is or isn’t offensive, I just could not find any evidence in my research of people taking offense to it.)

More Than 6 Brothers- Theory that there are more than 6 brothers as in some scenes in the anime and some promotional material it appears that there’s more than 6 brothers. Though there are episodes in the anime in which another brother is accepted into the group or created such as Godmatsu or Akamatsu.

Where is Orange Matsu?- The brothers all fit the primary (Red- Osomatsu, Yellow- Jyushimatsu, Blue- Karamatsu) and secondary (Green- Choromatsu, Purple- Ichimatsu) colors with the exception of orange as Todomatsu’s main color is pink. This has led some to theorize that there is a secret orange brother. The show creators stated that they made Todomatsu’s color pink to make his style more feminine and youthful, as well as to show that he’s intentionally trying to not fit in with his brothers by not following the same pattern.

Pazzmatsu- AKA Puzzlematsu is a match-3-tiles puzzle mobile game released in Japan in 2016 which continued until April 2018 when it was rebooted as “New Pazzmatsu”.

Doramatsu- A series of audio drama CDs that include unique stories that did not appear in the anime.

Matsus Stay Dead After S2- In the finale of Season 2, the brothers die from a plane crash and are sent to hell for their numerous misdeeds. This theory posits that the brothers stayed dead after the end of season two and that season three is their personal hell. This is a joke theory to explain season three’s shift in focus.

Osomatsu-San the Live-Action Movie- A Live-Action movie with a unique story based on Osomatsu-San with members of the J-Pop group Snow Man playing the Matsu brothers.

Brothers can’t be told apart in 1st promo- In the first promotional image released for the anime, the brothers’ personalities and visual distinguishers hadn’t been ironed out yet so long-time fans of the series noticed that it’s near impossible to distinguish which brother is which in the image. The only brother that is able to be identified is the center brother holding Karamatsu’s signature glasses.

Osomatsu-Kun Grows Up- Technically Osomatsu-San is an alternate universe to the original Osomatsu-Kun series canon, as in 1993 a beer ad was published showing what the Matsu brothers became when they reached adulthood. Osomatsu becomes a salaryman, Karamatsu marries a grocer’s daughter and helps with the family business, Choromatsu becomes a policeman, Ichimatsu marries and becomes a CEO, Jyushimatsu becomes a doctor, and Todomatsu works in a fish market.

Light Novels- Osomatsu-San has spawned a handful of Light Novels and short stories with plots not included in the anime. Examples include: Osomatsu-San the Beforematsu and Aftermatsu, VS Kochikame, and Shut Up Osomatsu.

April Fools- To celebrate April Fools, Osomatsu-San has released multiple fake announcements and fake Tabimatsu sets. This includes the 2015 announcement that the series would be releasing a new Osomatsu-Kun project, the 2017 announcement that a live-action adaptation starring the Byplayers would replace the anime, and the 2019 Tabimatsu set with a Irasutoya art style.

Yamano to Matsuno- The last name of the family was originally Yamano but was changed to Matsuno last minute as Yamano was considered a more “generic” last name.

Tier 5-

Date or Work- Also known as “Osomatsu-San the Game” is an adventure game released in Japan in 2017 for the PSVita. The story has you play as a heroine who gets calls and texts from the brothers asking for advice on their quest to get a job.

Karamatsu is Bisexual- In the first Osomatsu-San movie Karamatsu says “Sorry to keep you waiting, Karamatsu girls and boys!” Also in a drama CD Karamatsu reads off a love poem that he wrote to a male convenience store worker named Kumada Youji. It’s still debated whether the drama CD is canon to the anime and if the line in the movie was just referring to his fans in a non-romantic or sexual sense.

Recycled Scripts- Some of the episodes such as “Iyami, Alone in the Wind”, “ESP Kitty”, and ”The Life of Chibita’s Flower” were based off of chapters of Osomatsu-Kun modified to fit the series. Some skits from Season 3 were also based off of Doramatsu tracks.

Do Matsu’s Smoke?- A topic of debate in the Western fandom, Karamatsu is shown to smoke in multiple episodes and Osomatsu has been shown to be surrounded by cigarette boxes previously but it hasn’t been stated whether the other four brothers smoke.

Brothers had freckles- In the original Akatsuka designs for the brothers, they were designed to have freckles on their cheeks as well as other different facial features. These were changed to make the faces look more cute and easier to draw.

Ichi’s Personality given to Todomatsu- Ichimatsu’s Personality was going to be more snarky and rude than his current more doom and gloom. His characterization was instead given to Todomatsu by Miyu Irino’s suggestion, thinking that the youngest brother being catty would be funnier.

Life-Sized Statues- For the 2016 Summer Wonder Festival, the company Figurex 3D printed life-size statues of the six brothers, with smaller versions of the figures being sold at the event as well. While some have reappeared at Osomatsu-San events, such as the Ichimatsu figure, some have not been seen since their original showcase; this has led fans to search for the statues current locations. There is a link to buy one of the statues from one of the Japanese websites that first reported the event, but the link is now dead and leads to an error page.

Osomatsu-Kun Video Game- AKA “Osomatsu-Kun: Nonsense Theater” is a platforming video game released for the Sega Mega Drive in 1988 based on the original Osomatsu-Kun manga to promote the upcoming anime. The game only had a total of three levels with confusing level design and bad controls that caused it to gain an infamous reputation. It has recently gained a cult following as a kusoge (a Japanese video game that is celebrated for its awful quality.)

Cheaper by the Dozen- The manga was originally loosely based on the TV Show “Cheaper By the Dozen” (an American film from 1950 about a couple and their 12 children) with there being 12 children, but Akatsuka found it too hard to fit 12 characters in a single panel so he decided to cut the amount in half. Eventually changing it to be identical sextuplet brothers.

Denki Mystery- A popular AU that started as a Hesokuri Wars set. As opposed to other Hesokuri Wars sets, Denki Mystery had an entire storyline based on mystery novels, David Lynch films, and Japanese horror.

Iyami + Dekapan Made By Akatsuka’s Assistant- Both the characters Iyami and Dekapan were created by Fujio Akatsuka’s Assistant and later added to the manga.

Rice balls are Govt plants/Destroy NEETS Theory- Theory that the Riceballs were created by the government to reform NEETs to be functioning members of society.

Tier 6-

Six Same Faces #3 Song in Japan- On the week of December 28th, 2015 the song SIX SAME FACES ～今夜は最高!!!!!!~ (the first ending song of the first season) reached #3 on the Billboard Hot 100 in Japan, following the album’s release on December 16th, 2015.

Clone Theory- Theory that states that the brothers were cloned from Osomatsu. (I will admit I cannot find my previous evidence of this theory, if anyone does have proof of someone creating this theory or evidence for the theory please let me know.)

Sheeh Was a Real Trend- Iyami’s catchphrase/punchline used to be a cultural meme when Osomatsu-Kun was big in Japan. Famous figures to imitate Iyami include Godzilla and John Lenon from The Beatles.

VR Game- A virtual reality game collab that ran in Anime Plaza Machida and Adore’s Sunshine Store from 2017 to 2018 in which the player would hang out with the Matsu brothers in the bathhouse. It was later released theatrically as “Movies in VR!” in 2018 with “Evangelion: Another Impact”.

Fesmatsu- To celebrate each season’s release, a festival was thrown which would feature live action skits performed by the voice cast.

Todo is the hardest to animate- According to some of the animators who worked on the first season of the anime, Todomatsu was the hardest to animate of the six brothers because of his more feminine and youthful mannerisms.

Pachinko Games- Pachinko (an arcade gambling game) Games made in collaboration with Osomatsu-San, typically reusing animation from the anime though some have original animation exclusive to particular pachinko games. Examples include: Pachislot: Osomatsu-San, Pachislot: Osomatsu-San ~The Surprise~, & CR Osomatsu-San THE Drum.

Korean Dub Censorship- Due to South Korea’s strict censorship laws, Osomatsu-San was heavily censored by completely removing shots or scenes that featured characters being nude or wearing swimsuits. Some of the ridiculous censoring goes to the point where if a character is wearing a bikini, the entire screen will be cropped to only show their chin and up. Any scenes including nudity, swearing, violence, and sexual references were cut from airing or censored to hell and back (which to be fair is 99% of Osomatsu-San.)

Browser Games- Games that were available through Yahoo, some which were ported to AU SmartPass in the Osomatsu-San NEET Collection. Some examples include: Quiz Battle, Pleasing Totoko-Chan, & Osomatsu-SAN’s Black Factory.

Love Letter Board Game- A board game which players play as the brothers trying to woo Totoko-Chan.

*Matsuno Official Sex Toys- In collaboration with Kanojo Toys, a Japanese adult toy manufacturer, two dildos replicating Ichimatsu’s and Jyushimatsu’s canon lengths were released. The items were meant to be gag gifts but sold better than expected. The official website mocking Jyushimatsu’s girth and Ichimatsu’s length. “Hand massagers” of the other four brothers were also released. I hope y’all like this iceberg because now I’m being aggressively marketed at Japanese sex toys for researching everything on here.

S3E10 Aired on Crunchyroll before Japan- The tenth episode of the third season of the anime was delayed from airing as the channel was broadcasting the TV Tokyo Live 2020 U.S. Women’s Open which had previously been delayed due to rain. Though due to an error, the episode was released on time on streaming platforms early.

Tier 7-

Dmatsu-San- An internet series animated with Flash that aired on NTT DoComo to tie in with season 2 of the anime. The series includes 12 episodes, each at a minute’s length. Each episode features one of the sextuplets interacting with either Totoko or Iyami.

# of Dayons- In the episode “Let’s Get a Job” the brothers work in a factory that is revealed to be creating Dayons or clones of Dayon- as well as in the episode “Dayon Tribe” it’s shown that there’s an entire society living within Dayon’s stomach. This has led fans to question how many Dayons there are in the world of the anime, or if every appearance of Dayon is a different Dayon.

Sheeh-Wave- An internet radio series with the VA for Iyami interviewing other voice actors in character as Iyami. Having two seasons with the first airing from 2015 to 2016 and the second airing from 2017 to 2018 broadcast on Animate.TV.

*PASH Reveals Matsunos fetishes- In a magazine interview with the VAs for the Matsu brothers, each of their VAs had to guess their character’s fetish. Osomatsu- Boobs, Karamatsu- “As long as there’s love”, Choromatsu- “I won’t say” or humiliation as said in a Drama CD, Ichimatsu- Paw pads, Jyushimatsu- “Eh?”, Todomatsu- legs and bellybutton wrinkles.

2 Withheld Skits- 2 skits that were removed after the Dekapanman apology. Presumably parodies of other Japanese children’s media, but no information about what they were have been released.

The Red String of Fate Lost Fan Song- A fan vocaloid that was released on YouTube and Niconico Douga that featured a thumbnail with the sextuplets laying in a circle with a red string connecting them together. The red string wraps around Osomatsu’s finger and forms a heart in Todomatsu’s hands. The song had the brothers sing about their connection together before bursting into tears at the song’s climax. The video has been taken down since 2020 and is now lost media.

*Fetishmatsu- The part of the Osomatsu-San community that creates fetish media featuring Osomatsu-San characters. Please take caution when researching further, because I’m not messing up my search history any further.

*Live-Action Matsu Porn- Osomatsu-San being such a popular series, multiple live-action porn videos featuring the Osomatsu-San characters (mainly featuring Karamatsu & Ichimatsu). Examples include: Karamatsu Maturbates for You, IchiKara Hajimeyo!, and Ichimatsu Spanks It.

*Amputee Karamatsu- An infamous piece of fetishmatsu art that depicts Karamatsu with his legs cut off.

Osomatsu-Sanpo- A Pokemon-GO style game where players would find and catch different variations of the sextuplets through AR on their mobile device. It only ran from February to September 2017.

Swimsuit Hesokuri Set- An unreleased Hesokuri set which has the Matsu brothers wearing pretty plain-looking one-piece bathing suits. Possibly used for testing out game mechanics in updates.

What Does Sheeh Mean?- Iyami’s catchphrase which he will scream out when surprised. When asked what the phrase meant, Fujio Akatsuka never answered, leaving the phrase a mystery to this day.

*IchiKara Endurance Battle- An infamous doujinshi piss fic with Ichimatsu and Karamatsu having an “endurance battle.” Please take caution when researching further.

*Periodmatsu- An image of a Matsu brother drawn in period blood on someone’s thigh posted by the account “Periodmatsu”. It is debated whether the image was faked or real. Often confused for Period Drama Osomatsu-San, an episode from the second season of the anime.

*Banana Milky Way (Meiboku)- An infamous beastiality doujinshi with Ichimatsu and the tiger from S1E10.

*Assault Machine Gun- An infamous 2016 doujinshi by Tellmin in which the Matsu brothers are sexually assaulted and r*ped for not being able to pay their debts to Chibita.

Rejected Bathhouse Quiz Short- A rejected skit from “Christmas Osomatsu-San”. Airing only at the 2017 Spring Nationwide Invitational Screening Festival alongside clips of each Matsu brother depending on which room you entered. Now considered to be lost media.

*Todokaras- An infamous member of the fandom that scammed their fans/followers, groomed minors, promoted beastiality, abused animals, and claimed victimhood. This is just *some* of their behavior. Please take caution when researching further.

Thank you all for all of your support and patience, if you have any questions I will try to answer to the best of my ability!

[chaggie4ever]

Ok I can’t help it - I gotta talk spoilers/leaks. Don’t worry I’ll keep it to very clearly marked posts and make it so you have to expand to see anything. Please lmk if I’m missing anything 🥰😘🫡 (and I will delete any lectures - I’m desperate for content and while I don’t support the guy who did this, I’m still gonna eat cause I’m starving XD also they caught him and jailed and fined 100k 🍻)

SPOILERS

SPOILERS

SPOILERS

SPOILERS

SPOILERS

Official:

- Creator Viv summarized season 3 as “revelations” and season 4 as “family” and likes season 3 the most, alluding to this being where more Lilith is revealed

- We get a sexy pop Chaggie song

- Vaggie’s bow “suits her” per her voice actress - maybe backstory?

- Charlie will question her worldview and work on her powers

- More Vox as main antagonist

-Nifty gets a fast paced song

-Baxter finally appears - replaced by sir Pentious in final story edits, he’s basically a fishy mad scientist who wants to study redemption - there’s an official clip a few seconds long but also longer leaked where Charlie cannot stop calling him Pentious

-Erika (VA) accidentally said that Charlie would be talking to Lilith at some point

Leaked:

- Lute is losing her shit and hallucinating Adam with a super badass solo (see TikTok Gravity) - she alludes to killing Vaggie and I’m fucking terrified but the song is fire 🔥

- Lute has a gold arm prosthetic that seems fully functional; can Vaggie have an eye please? 🙏

- Lute is very openly arguing in court against Sera and Abel and there’s a hilarious exchange when she learns she’s not head exorcist + she begs Sera more after the trial too

- Abel is the leader of the exorcists even though Adam didn’t like him - he’s a pacifist and either dating or besties with St Peter

- Pentious was a coward who watched a Jack the Ripper-esque character kill women in the 1800s and didn’t report it - he redeemed himself by trying to save his friends (this whole scene is on TikTok with Sera and Pentious crying and Lute being a brat)

- Pentious wants to go back to hell with his friends and Emily tries to get him happy there and makes heavenly egg bois for him (song is on TikTok and the worst of those released - kinda welcome to heaven like in quality… least favorite so far)

- The Sailor moon esque character referred to in some interviews is the speaker of god, who resembles Stolas and his family… leaving many to speculate if they are fallen angels

- Alastor was a serial killer who promised a mysterious task for Rosie, who owns his soul until he completes it - he was mistaken for a deer and shot but became the most powerful sinner in hell in return - they have a super catchy cute 1920s duet (also on TikTok - mimzy cameo on top of his piano in his flashback too)

- Awesome banter with Lucifer and Alastor (Cheri and Angel watching and Angel tells Lucifer he should have moved in sooner)

- Vees giving hotel bad press and somehow potentially involved Charlie hitting Velvete and harping on how she didn’t “closed fist hit” her while Vaggie tries to get her to let it go and stay at the hotel + cute I love you exchange but also more steamrolling by Charlie not listening to her GF…

- there’s official art of Alastor restrained and I’ve heard things about Vox threatening to rape him but I’ve not found this myself and heard it was a fake Russian hack? Idk

- pilot from 2019 is NOT cannon, with Charlie meeting Killjoy for the first time and reaffirming that she is bisexual (lots of homophobia) + she has nifty with her!

Ok what am I missing? I didn’t find anything for husk and only those single scenes for Angel, Lucifer, and Vaggie. I’ve heard it was mostly the first two episodes but I hope these three don’t get neglected and it’s just that the first 2 eps are more Heaven/Lute/Alastor focused

[ace-s-fav-dp-posts]

Currently cooking up an AU heavily inspired by the magical girl concept.

And I am going ahead and making Danny a girl in this AU.

Her name is Danae, pronounced exactly the same as Danny.

Yes it's because I think Vlad hearing "Danny" and being convinced it's short for Danielle, is funny.

Mostly because I've also loved the AU that Maddie isn't short for Madeline but some other name, like Madison, since I was 14 myself.

I've just always thought it suited Vlad's character, and his more or less parasocial (remember they haven't seen each other since the Vlad's accident before the 20 year reunion happens, this is 100% parasocial) obsession with Maddie that her real name doesn't actually matter to him.

He loves her as an object, a prize to be one and then flaunted/hoarded as the mood strikes him.

We know this from the episode where Danny goes back in time to mess with Vlad's accident, and Vlad ends up married to Maddie.

Because unlike Maddie and Jack who're ecstatically happy and ridiculously in love with each other even after 20 years.

Maddie Masters is unhappy in her marriage and constantly lies to her husband, and Vlad is completely dismissive of Maddie's continued interest in ecto-science and pressured her into giving it up.

Personally I love it when the nickname actually comes from her middle name, and her first name is something completely different like Amelia.

But she's gone by Maddie for most of her life because Amalia and Alicia (her older sister) sound pretty similar, and both start with the same letter, and end with the same two letters. And she was sick of getting called Alicia by teachers who'd previously had Alicia as a student.

[Can you tell me and my older sister have very similar sounding names, that start with the same letter, and end with the same two letters. And I spent most of elementary school getting called her name by teachers.]

But enough about Vlad's misogyny and inability to view women as anything more than objects. Back to the AU I was originally talking about.

Magical girl Danae.

Who I can't decide if I want her magical girl alter ego to be Phantom. Considering in canon how Phantom operates is 100% based on superheroes, and not magical girls.

With all of Phantom's abilities being treated as superpowers and not magic, and the use of scientific gadgets to supplement where said superpowers don't suffice.

I'm honestly leaning towards Phantom being like part of all the names of those in the magical girl group.

Like with Sailor Moon all their magical girl names have Sailor in them, or with the Star Guardians they're all Star Guardian Blahblahblah.

So Danae's magical girl name is Phantom Infinity, but most people only know her as Phantom, until other magical girls going by Phantom start showing up.

[Phantom Infinity is in reference to both Danae's love of Space, and her status as a being of protection of both the Infinite Realms and her home dimension.]

Danae however is still 100% a halfa, and remains the only 'turned' halfa other than Vlad himself. The others who join the Phantoms, aren't half ghosts.

They're magical girls by way of more stereotypical magical girl methods. IE being given power by an exterior force in order to fight to protect peace.

Anyways, yes, Danae does eventually gain the ability to turn people into magical girls. If, they're ecto contaminated to a certain level, and the person's personal ecto doesn't conflict with what Danny does to turn them into a magical girl.

Said magical girl gains magical girl powers an a transformation, but they don't get ghost abilities. At least not most of them.

Like Sam becomes Phantom Arcadia (she successfully fought off Undergrowth's claim on her, but adding Danae's own claim to her keeps him from ever being able to try it again as long as Danae's claim remains in place), Valerie is Phantom Athene (she joins the Phantoms after she learns the truth about Cujo, and Axiom Labs, and ghosts in general, which allows for Danae to transform her into a magical girl. Which also keeps Valerie from being at the mercy of Technus again), Paulina is Phantom Wondrous, and Star is Phantom Songstress.

As Aracdia Sam obviously has powers over plants, but also has a soothing aura towards animals in general. She doesn't command them into battle, because she's not comfortable enough to even try something like that, but she does influence them into wanting to leave the area of the battle.

Her powers are best described as influence (possibly even outright control) over the natural world. Her colors are purple with green and black accents.

Athene (Valerie) still has access to all of the ghost hunting gear like blasters that the suit Technus infused with her body. It's infused with her body after all. However it's not as anti-hero tech-y as it used to be, instead reformed and reshaped by her new magical girl magic.

Her powers is best explained as weapon manifestation. Her colors are now shades of Orange with no red (Red was chosen by Vlad, not Valerie), with black and yellow accents.

Valerie is one of the team who can fly, due to her having a bio-suit before becoming a magical girl.

Wondrous (Paulina) had no real influence from a specific ecto-being before her transformation, so her powers are based entirely on her own personality.

This being attention manipulation, the ability to move and shift an opponents attention how she wants. Most easily being able to pull it towards herself, but can also push someone's attention away from her, even to the point she more or less disappears from their perception. Her colors are primarily pink with blue accents.

Songstress (Star) is much like Paulina in that her powers are rooted in no one else but her own personality. Her powers are (obviously) based around music.

When first starting out they thought the extent of it was being able to influence the emotions of her opponents (which is pretty powerful when fighting ghosts), but the more they experimented the more they found she can do. She can sing songs that have different effects based on intention. Songs that heal, songs that make people sleep. It's eventually discovered that singing a song with someone else in a duet or as a group will boost the other person's own powers.

Her colors are blue with pink and orange accents.

Infinity's (Danae) ghostly powers are mostly the same to canon Danny's powers with a few exceptions/tweaks.

Primarily being that instead of sending blasts of energy out of various body parts (hands, fingers, eyes) Infinity manifests a magical girl wand and uses that as a conduit by default.

Which essentially placebo's her brain into thinking she can't use her powers without her wand summoned, which does prevent most of the embarrassing accidents and power mishaps Danny has in canon. But also fully locks her out of using her powers without her wand before meeting Vlad and learning he's also a halfa.

The other being a power (obviously) unique to her in this AU, this being Appointer of Champion(s). The power to give someone else a portion of her own power/energy, with certain rules and restrictions applied to it.

Which actually within this AU calls her to gain the same power classification as Desiree, who's a Wish Granter. This being the Bargainer classification, ecto beings who use deals of varying types to gain power by way of spending power.

Anyways Tucker can't be made a magical boy because he's a reincarnate soul who's thousands of years old.

And Duul Aman isn't going to give up he's accumulated power he'll be able to access once he's back in the afterlife, all so his current mortal lifetime can coast on some infant's power.

Boy has to man up and learn sorcery the old fashion way he did the first time around. (So Says Duul Aman. Who'd love to angrily shake his scepter and tell all these upstart brats to get off his lawn.)

Jazz can't be made a magical girl because she's extremely liminal, and has been so longer than Danae's been alive. She has a personal ecto signature that's too potent and too established for Danae to turn her without possibly wrecking her health in the process. So she remains a sci-fi action girl who uses the Peeler.

Anyways if you couldn't tell this is also based around those AUs were Danny, and Tucker were friends with Paulina, Dash, and Star back in elementary school.

But they have a falling out, or rather Dash and Tucker have a falling out, and the girls are made to pick sides. Over an accident, which boils down to Tucker tripping during lunch and spilling his food on Dash. Making him have to go to the office to change his clothes, resulting in multiple people asking if he'd had an accident (peed his pants).

Originally Danae tried to do her best to play mediator, while Star just wanted everything to blow over because it's not a big deal, but Paulina sided with Dash.

And someone openly siding with him just made him get louder and more insistent that he's right in the situation (even though it was a dumb argument over an accident). Escalating into him intentionally dumping his tray on Tucker the following day, in order to "make things even".

Which Tucker didn't appreciate at all, and went as far as to declare him and Dash not friends any more. Because Dash did this on purpose, while Tucker did it on accident.

Danae, having known Tucker her whole life and being fiercely loyal, instantly sided with him.

Paulina was of the opinion that Dash dumping the food on Tucker made things fair because both boys ended up humiliated and having to go change. So she thinks Tucker ending their friendship over it is a complete over reaction.

While Star was of the opinion that Dash intentionally dumping his food on Tucker was going over the line, and he should have just let it go. But also that Tucker immediately ending his friendship with Dash over getting food dumped on him was too far.

Considering Tucker was telling Dash that people would forget about him having to change his clothes in a few days and how it didn't matter. But it did matter. It mattered to Dash. Who Tucker inadvertently humiliated and didn't really sincerely apologies to.

Star eventually ends up remaining friends with Dash and Paulina. Because Tucker tells Danae that because Star didn't side with them, she sided with Dash, and if Danae keeps being friends with Star he doesn't want to be friends with her anymore either.

[The kids are like 6-7 year olds when this happen, and it happens over the course of a single school week.

By the end of the school year, Tucker's completely forgotten he'd ever said anything like that to Danae. Mostly because he never would have actually followed through with it, he was just angry.

Danae is basically his sister, he's known her his whole life. He'd never be able to just end his friendship with her the way he could with Dash, Paulina, and Star, who he'd only started hanging out with that school year. Danae isn't blood, but she's as good as, as far as the Foley family is concerned.

Heck Tucker barely even remembers the three-ish months where he was friends with Paulina, Dash and Star. Most of what he remembers is the blow out fight that ended it, and in his mind, the three of them ending up as A-lister bullies in high school only makes sense to him.

If you can't tell being the reincarnation of an ancient pharaoh who was worshiped as a living god by his subjects, along with being a doted upon single child as his current reincarnation, has resulted in Tucker being a bit self-centered in general. He's not evil though, just deeply flawed.]

A situation that results in Dash, Paulina, and Star hating Tucker for a pretty long while. Star mostly lets it go, but remains bitter over it. While Paulina and Dash are never really able to let go of their anger. It's a massive part of why Dash bullies Tucker specifically so much, and why Tucker, and Danae by association, end up as social outcasts.

So Paulina and Star get brought in after her and Danae start repairing their friendship. Dash gets kind of locked out of the dynamic for a pretty long while, under the guise of it all being "girl stuff".

Star befriended Valerie back in Middle School, while Dash befriended Kwan, which is how Valerie and Kwan end up as part of the A listers. With Star and Valerie ending up best friends, and Dash and Kwan ending up as best friends.

Tucker never really rebuilds any kind of friendship with Paulina, Star, or Dash. They can eventually work together without constantly insulting each other, but it takes a while.

Tucker doesn't even remember being friends with them in the first place. Only clearly remembering how said relationship ended, and just assumes they were probably crappy friends considering how they act now. So he's completely disinterested in trying to build a friendship with them beyond the potential for popularity.

Dash finds Tucker the most irritating guy in the world. Considering that for the few months they were friends, he considered Tucker his best friend. When they originally had their blow out fight, Dash spent basically the rest of that school year convinced he and Tucker would patch things up and be friends again by the following school year.

That's half the reason why Dash held the grudge for so long. The other half being that he heard from Star that Tucker basically forced Danae to stop being their friend.

Anyways this post got way too out of hand, and I have to stop it now or I'll never be done with it.

[maplemonarchy]

New Life Series! New Life Series!!

Spoilers for the first episode of Wild Life!

If you want to hear rather than read my thoughts and design process, I have also uploaded a speedpaint of this drawing on my YouTube Channel, link here: https://youtu.be/gfsCbVe6kls

I love this team so much. I do want to explain my choices with the design of the characters.

Jimmy is the one that probably needs the most explanation. The colors, of course, come from his default skin. However, thanks to the jokes about Sheriff Jimmy in the first episode of Wild Life, I decided to give him an outfit that resembled a stereotypical "western" outfit. Complete with a bolo tie that shows which life he is on. I also decided to deviate from the common design for Jimmy regarding his bird-like nature (aside from the ear wings) and designed him after the Rito from Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker. Hence, the beak-like nose and the wings that hang down from his arms. If he flies, then his whole arms become wings,

For Scar I have pulled design influence from his Secret Life skin cause my headcanon is that Wild Life Scar is somewhat haunted by Secret Life's events, even if the watchers wiped his memory. Scars shirt has little sunflowers embroidered on it and has the same color scheme as his Secret Life skin's poncho while his scarf has the same colors as his final skin in Secret life. The rest of his skin is meant to look like the skin he is using in Wild Life, which is his default skin. I tried to make his jacket look like a World War II bomber jacket, with mild success. The symbol that keeps track of his hearts is represented by a little patch on his jacket. I've also given Scar his ponytail because I really love that design. Plus, it really gives into the idea that Scar is still living with the events of Secret Life. His hair is so much longer than usual because now he's both used to longer hair and cutting his own hair after living all alone for an entire year. Additionally, I've put the Secret Keeper symbol on his belt.

Lizzie's design is probably the one I've changed the least from her default. Hair is something that I struggle to draw and I half remembered people drawing Lizzie with Sailor Moon-esqe buns in her hair. I did pull references from Empire Season one for parts of her design, such as her gills and the Axolotl sword. The design on her shield is supposed to be a scary axolotl. I've also made Lizzie taller than Scar and Timmy since she was a giant for practically the entire first session. Also, the bow on her chest is the indicator for which life she's on.

[mintghostko]

Hello sorry to bother you with this all of sudden ,and this might be coming out of nowhere, and I’m not trying to force you or be pushy  I’m just trying to get more people into this show with great potential. You can ignore this if you want. If your not interested it’s fine but Have you heard of or watched moon girl and devil dinosaur? Season 2 premier happened

The main character i love she gives me autistic vibes I’m autistic. The show has interesting characters, action ,great music, and animation ,good themes and representation, Anime references, plenty of Sailor Moon references too it even has an eyecatch season 2 is going to be more story driven if you find that interesting. It also shares the same animation studio as rise of the teenage mutant ninja turtles.

It be good if you also watch the season 2 episodes when they air so the ratings will be higher. 

I think Disney might be trying to sabotage the show with them dropping 14 episodes on Disney +  Feb 3 which has passed.and it’s only half of season 2. We have a week or two to binge it.They did similar with season 1 and the ratings where low ,please watch season 2 episodes when they air on. But more importantly also watch it on Disney + in feb and when they air it on YouTube. Unfortunately they dropped 14 episodes on Disney + so watch them all in a day if you can but also when they air the first time if you have cable.

I’m not just saying only cable just also. I’m saying please support this show. Despite that it still won 5 Emmys. Also if it’s no trouble could if it alright with you spread the word about this show to others you know like either online or irl. Time is limited!

I have seen moon girl and devil dinosaur! can confirm it's a delightful show, just a really fun watch with lots of cool animation and a fun use of color :) i don't mind promoting it at all, if anyone hasn’t seen it yet give it a shot, there’s a lot to like there ฅ⁠^⁠•⁠ﻌ⁠•⁠^⁠ฅ

[thoughtfulfangirling]

This show exists in the era even before Tsunami had to cut out scenes from Sailor Moon where characters were on bikes without helmets and very badly photoshop a seat belt onto Ami because they would not depict unsafe behaviors for kids to replicate.

LMAO It's must worse in motion too. Believe me.

So this is a case where Brooklyn is wearing a helmet for out of universe reasons. What's even more interesting to me is that the reference they made to Lexington having driven one before, he absolutely had not been wearing a helmet. I wonder if they got in trouble after that aired. XD Not bad enough to have it edited out like Elisa's blood in a future episode.

But it's no fun to shrug something off as done 'because creators had to' and I love that they knew that too.

It's not about the helmet.

It's all a part of the look!

And it very much does suit Brooklyn. Any one of them would enjoy the act of playing the part, but it works that Brooklyn is the one to set the example, to go out of his way to find what he thought of a 'biker gear.'

And for Broadway to help him into the coat like it's almost ceremonial?! LOVE THAT!

This whole sequence also speaks to how clearly they have discussed in advance, maybe even drawn straws or something, who will be the first to ride the bike after it's fixed. Absolutely adorable.

[the-conversation-pod]

Dispatch! (The Ossan's Love Episode)

And we're back!

NiNi and Ben bring our friend @twig-tea to the show to talk about the entire Ossan's Love series. We'll talk about the way this franchise evolves over time, the difficulties of comedy, what it means to love older queer men, and how this show tackles the complexities of family and masculinity.

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

00:00:00 - Welcome 00:01:15 - Introduction and Some Context 00:06:25 - Ossan’s Love History and Summary 00:13:42 - The Characters 00:28:23 - Love or Dead and In The Sky 00:39:00 - Ossan’s Love Returns 00:45:33 - Final Thoughts and Ratings

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @ginnymoonbeam as transcriber, and @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes (Coming soon thanks to @wen-kexing-apologist). When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

00:00:00 - Welcome

NiNi

Welcome to The Conversation About BL, aka The Brown Liquor Podcast.

Ben

And there it is. I’m Ben.

NiNi

I’m NiNi.

Ben

And we’re you’re drunk Caribbean uncle and auntie here sitting on the porch in the rocking chairs.

NiNi

Four times a year we pop in to talk about what’s going on in the BL world.

Ben

We shoot the shit about stories and all the drama going into them. I review from a queer media lens.

NiNi

And I review from a romance and drama lens.

Ben

So if you like cracked-out takes and really intense emotional analysis…

NiNi

If you like talking about artistry, industry, and the discourse…

Ben

And if you generally just love simping…

NiNi

There is a lot of simping on this podcast…

Ben

We are the show for you!

00:01:15 - Introduction and Some Context

Ben

And we're back! 

This week, we are covering all of Ossan's Love, from 2016 through 2024. We have brought on a special guest for this special episode as we're going to talk about the longest-running BL project. We have brought on our friend @twig-tea.

Twig

Hello.

NiNi

Hi, Twig. Welcome to the show.

Twig

Thank you so much for having me.

NiNi

New friend of the pod. Super excited to have you here. Twig is what we delightfully referred to as a ‘fandom old.’ I'm very excited to be having this conversation with two fandom olds in here, Twig and Ben, because, dear listeners, I have not had the time to watch Ossan's Love, so this is gonna be interesting. Ben and Twig are gonna school me.

Twig

We'll do our best.

Ben

This is going to be an interesting episode because we're going to be talking about a project that was somewhat overlooked by fandom, myself included, until the last couple of months. And I'm a little bit salty about it, and so I wanted to bring on somebody who has watched all of this in real time, and I thought that their perspective would be helpful. 

Twig, you are new to our listeners. Why don't you tell them a little bit about yourself in fandom and your history with queer cinema and BL?

Twig

I actually started on the GL side, which is a little bit different than I think a lot of folks in the BL fandom. I started with getting into Sailor Moon and got involved with a group of women who started Yuricon. The first Yuricon was held in Newark, NJ, in 2003 and I was the secretary. 

From there, there just wasn't enough GL content, and so I got into BL, too. I was really into Japanese manga, was part of a few scanlation groups, got oversaturated, stepped away, came back in 2016 to be shocked at the fact that a whole lot of the stuff that I used to watch was now made into live action. 

The YouTube algorithm in late 2016—early 2017—fed me Lovesick and I sort of went, “Hello. What's this?” Then watched Make it Right and was hooked on Thai BL. Tried to backfill as much as I could, so I watched Gray Rainbow, and Diary of Tootsies, and all this stuff that nobody talks about, really, anymore. 

One of the things about fandom at that time was that the way you found stuff was digging and a prayer, and random people making random lists, and it was very hard to tell how good those lists were. And so I managed that by watching everything and making my own opinions. And that is why I watched Ossan’s Love when it aired, or as soon as I could get my hands on it.

NiNi

So we're talking like real, real old school. We're talking about “Oh God, maybe some fansubber might help us out here.”

Twig

Fuckin’, like, Internet relay chat.

NiNi

IRC was my job back in the day.

Twig

Yes!

NiNi

I was talking about other things—not BL, but I was there.

Ben

Twig has sketchy as shit DVDs that were handed to her by a fan that have not great rip but really solid subs.

Twig

Bought in a mall parking lot with Mandarin subtitles that we used to watch with my friends who spoke Mandarin so they could translate for us in real time. It was hard. We used to walk uphill both ways back in the day.

Ben

A lot of folks who have been in this for a long time—we joked that we watched everything because we had to. You have done a better job of keeping track of what you've watched.

Twig

I wish I'd done better. I only really started tracking things in 2020. I did try to backfill the years before that, but I only really captured all of the major series. There was so many shorts, and things like that, I just couldn't do. But my spreadsheet has about 600 things on it, 606 as of today.

Ben

Incredible.

NiNi

I have been watching media overall—like seriously watching media—for…30 years…and I have not watched 606 of anything.

Ben

Nah, I believe her. It adds up. I engage with close to 100 BLs every year for the last 2-3 years.

NiNi

Clearly I'm not in these streets with y'all.

[Twig laughs]

Ben

I'm so glad Twig has showed up because it has given me permission to not watch so much.

NiNi

I bow down to you guys, because there was a point in time where, trying to keep up with week-to-week, I was watching something like eight shows at a time and I literally felt like my head was on fire. So, I don't know how you guys do it.

Ben

Practice. [laughs]

NiNi

We talked about this on the show, how last year I watched 50 things, maybe, for the whole year, and I felt like I was losing my mind. I usually watch like 15.

Ben

50 is good. Like, that's a really healthy number.

Twig

That is. That's pretty solid.

NiNi

As in five-zero? 

Ben

Yeah, no, that's great!

NiNi

A year?! 

Ben

Yeah! And we made a whole fucking show out of it! It’s good!

NiNi

Deep breaths. Okay, let's continue. Let's go on. [laughs]

00:06:25 - Ossan’s Love History and Summary

NiNi

Let's get into Ossan's Love. Ben, do the honors, tell us what is Ossan's Love about?

Ben

Actually, I want to do this one a little bit differently. 

NiNi, you have not engaged with Ossan's Love. The most you have is the fandom vibe on it from the periphery. What is your impression of Ossan's Love prior to all of us posting a lot about the new show?

NiNi

When you say periphery, I think you're being incredibly generous. There was one where they’re flight attendants maybe, or something to do with an airline. I am aware of that. And then there was something with a boss. There was a thing about a shower. There's some dirty jokes that go over my head because they're referential to this show. But in terms of my awareness of Ossan’s Love, it's honestly not much. 

Did I get any of those things correct by the way?

Twig

You totally did.

Ben

You did. I almost shouted “Dispatch” when you mentioned the airport. [Twig and Ben laugh] 

All right. So, I will give what I knew of Ossan's Love prior to earnestly engaging with it: Ossan's Love is a workplace-set drama in which a guy who works in an office is being pursued by a colleague of the same age as him and his boss—who is like 20-plus-odd years older than him. At the time when I didn't watch it, the fandom vibe on it was that it was fairly offensive, particularly around the old guy character. And, when it was hard to find this show, I was like, “Whatever, I'm not going to work that hard for a show that people seem really put off by.” I have had to make sure that I check if I am riding an old fandom opinion from prior to 2019 when it comes to older work, because those opinions are usually not informed by the lens that I use. And so I decided to engage with Ossan's Love properly. 

Before we start describing what the show is specifically, Twig, what do you remember about your experience watching the show in real time and the popular opinions about it?

Twig

So, the first thing is real time had really different meanings back then because we didn't have international distribution. It was sort of when things were fan subbed and when you could find them and knew they existed. So, I actually didn't get to watch the short until years after the original. So my first outing with Ossan’s Love was season one. 

At the time, it felt like if you liked it, you should be quiet about it, because the opinion was so negative that you would be shouted down if you said anything positive about it. So I just sort of stayed in my corner of enjoyment and tried not to think too hard about it.

Ben

That is unfortunately how I remember it being. It was not popular to say positive things about Ossan’s Love at the time. Even the fans of Ossan's Love seemed super ambivalent about the second season, which was an alternative universe.

Twig

Yeah. When Season 2 aired it was an even wider swing. The people who really loved Season 1 seemed to hate Season 2. I actually like Season 2 better than Season 1, so I was even more like, [laughs] “Okay, I guess I don't know what I'm talking about, guys, so I'm just gonna stay over here and let you all have your opinions over there.”

Ben

So our quick timeline: we have Ossan’s Love the TV special in 2016. We have Ossan’s Love the TV show airing during spring of 2018. They released the movie Ossan’s Love: Love or Dead —that went into theaters on August 23rd of 2019—and then a few months later, in November, they released Ossan’s Love: In The Sky. It's my understanding that Ossan’s Love Returns was originally supposed to air in, like, 2020-2021. They've returned to that project this year in 2024.

NiNi

I know they're going to be doing a Thai version of this coming up and they also have the Hong Kong version?

Twig

That's right. Yep. There was a Hong Kong version in I think 2021 or 2022.

NiNi

I love when they take a property and they remake it across cultures over and over again. I'm always intrigued to see how they turn out.

Ben

Have you watched the Hong Kong version, Twig?

Twig

I peeked at it. It's really true to season one in a lot of ways. I haven't actually watched it all the way through because I was like, “If I want to rewatch season one, I'll just rewatch season one.”

Ben

I feel like I have to watch it at some point. 

All right, so let's get into Ossan’s Love properly now: Ossan’s Love is about a 33 year old man named Haruta who is a slob. He is a hot mess of a man. He cannot take care of himself. He lives with his mom, and she does all the housework. She decides to bail on him and go run off with the hot new man she's with. And so he asks his colleague, whose name is Maki, to move in with him to help him out because Maki is very good at house chores. 

He learns accidentally that his boss, whose name is Kurasawa Musashi, has had a crush on him for a long time and also simultaneously learns that Maki has been crushing on him for a long time. Hijinks ensue as the two of them begin aggressively pursuing him, and he is not prepared for this sudden surge in gay activities.

Twig

One thing I add to your description, Ben, is it's a comedy.

Ben

So this is where things get a little bit complicated. Comedy is hard to do correctly, because a big part of comedy is playing with people's preconceptions of how an interaction should go. A lot of folks struggle with Japanese comedy because they're just not aware of the expectations for how an interaction should go, and so the humor is not landing on them, and this can happen even in your own culture. Like, if you showed a teenager today Airplane, many of the jokes in that movie would make no sense to them because they're missing some of the cultural context. Some of that exists with peoples engagement with Ossan's Love, I think.

Twig

I think that's right.

00:13:42 - The Characters 

Ben

The big part about Ossan's Love that impresses me is how the show gets better each time they come back. There are things that are kind of yikes in the short that are tweaked out in the first show. There are things that they retooled Haruta and Kurosawa over in the airport season. And then, in the most recent season, Ossan's Love Returns, they've shifted where the focus of their storytelling is after everything that's going on. So we are seeing the same characters, but they're dealing with much different dynamics. 

So, Ossan's Love Returns was a completely acceptable point for a lot of people to jump on, and I almost just jumped on. But, I like to know how we got here. So I was like, “I must watch all of this first!” [laughs]

NiNi

I was about to say on what point were you ever gonna just jump on without going back into the before times? You, sir, are a historian and a completionist.

Ben

Of course. And so I went back and watched. 

Twig, since you didn't have a lot of people to talk about Ossan's Love with at the time, how about you talk about your impressions of Haruta, Maki, and Kurosawa when you first engaged with it?

Twig

The thing that stuck with me is that, even in 2018, it felt a little more queer than a lot of the other stuff I was watching alongside it at the time. Haruta and Maki, and all of the characters, play into that in different ways. Haruta is an extremely frustrating character. I just wanted to reach through the screen and strangle him through most of season one, and I think that's partially intentional. 

Haruta is set up as the literal straight man. He's there to be what your average straight guy reaction might be when confronted with gayness, and everyone around him literally slaps him and tells him he's being an idiot. Delightful, but it doesn't make the character himself very likable at first. The fact that he grows on you anyway, even while he's being so frustrating, speaks to the other strengths in his character: his kindness, and the way he values his coworkers. And I think the later seasons did a really good job of picking up the things that made Haruta such a great character, and enforcing that in the character writing itself to make him more likable overall. 

I loved Kurosawa from jump. I think he's [laughs] incredible. He lives life on 11, and I think watching an older man step through some of the more standard romance tropes very clumsily but earnestly is incredibly charming. 

Maki is the competent character. He's also a self-actualized gay man. He at no point questions his sexuality at all, has no crisis about it. He knows who he is and what he's attracted to. And that was also really refreshing for BL at the time.

NiNi

Describing the kind of character that Kurosawa is made me think of Ben describing characters like Shin from Minato's Laundromat. When you tend to see these younger characters who are full on gung-ho chasing after the ones that they like, people like that. But they don't like the boss because they don't think their character should be doing that.

Twig

When I was first telling Ben about my opinions about the show, I said one of the things I struggle with is whether Kurosawa is telling the joke or is the joke. I think the more I have watched and rewatched, especially in later seasons, they do a really good job of him being a funny character and we're not laughing at him. He's not the butt of the joke, he's just funny. The people who would be turned off by an old guy hitting on a younger guy no matter what were turned off by that character and the ones who were sympathetic to older men also having romance in their lives were turned off by the idea that it was a comedy.

Ben

The comedy in the way Kurosawa pursues Haruta is about the age gap, not the fact that he's an old man. It's that he's at a different stage of his life. He's not fumbling to figure out stuff, he knows what he wants and his time is limited, so he's pursuing it determinately and also because he's older, he's behaving in line with his generation.

Like, if you don't have friends who are more than 10 years older than you, sometimes you're going to get weirded out by their cultural stuff. Like right now, I'm reaching the age gap with some of the kids I tutor, and I had to deal with all the various iterations on rizz and I don’t like it. 

[Twig and NiNi laugh]

I had an 8 year old call himself The Rizzler the other day and I almost pushed him down.

Twig 

Oh no.

NiNi

Oh my God.

Ben

I understand the concern around Kurosawa. But that is not what I think the show is doing, and even if it accidentally does it, that is not the show’s intent. Haruta is dealing with the sudden shift in his relationships with men who are important to him. Maki was just like his friend and colleague, who he was low-key mooching off of to do housework for him, and he has to deal with the fact that the only reason Maki is willing to put up with him is because Maki likes him. With Kurosawa, a big part of their relationship is the fact that he respects and admires him so much. The relationship between them is very paternal in a lot of ways?

Twig

A mentorship.

Ben

Yeah, he sees Kurosawa as a respected mentor and Kurosawa respects Haruta as well as a valued member of his team. A big part of the show is them sorting out the way that affection complicates some of these relationships, and we as the audience have to struggle with why these men like this man. Haruta is fucking useless in the household. He may be good at his job, but he is horrible at house related stuff. And so the question is why would anyone want him? 

And this is not rhetorical for the show. They really want you to grapple with this. The fact that Haruta is kind of repulsive as a romantic interest is something the show wants you to think about. You have to work to understand why so many people are into Haruta, and I think this gets better overtime.

Twig

They do a really good job with all of the women characters in this show, which was super rare for the time and still worth saying. His best friend Chizu also is terrible at housework, but she's a woman, and so she's struggling with the expectation that she get married and she keeps talking about how she needs to find somebody who does for her what Haruta’s men are willing to do for him. I just love putting those two characters side by side. And the silent question that's asked of the audience. That's like, why is this okay for Haruta, but not for Chizu.

Ben

It's not really subtle. As the show goes on, Maki won't really commit to Haruta because Haruta is ostensibly straight. Maki is hesitant about full committing because it's hard to be gay, like you got a lot to face as a gay person and he doesn't know that Haruta is going to stand up to all that. He's kind of a waffly type of dude. He's kind of a people pleaser who won't really stand up to anyone. This is kind of good for him as a salesperson. It's obvious why all their clients like Haruta. But it makes him kind of unreliable as a partner because you're not certain he's going to hold ground with you when the world is telling you that you shouldn't be together. 

The first season ends on a really cool note, ‘cause Maki and Haruta break up and Haruta just falls apart. And Kurosawa moves in with him for a while to help take care of him. For Kurosawa, it's a romantic thing, but it very much feels like someone’s parent going to take care of their kid. Haruta recognized where he failed with Maki, and he starts trying to help out with house stuff a little bit. But it's not like he suddenly becomes like a great housekeeper. I really liked that choice, that he starts putting in an effort but he's still horrible at it. 

Kurosawa ends up proposing to Haruta. Haruta has a hard time saying no to people, so he accepts. Also, he used a flash mob. It's hard to say no when someone flash mobs you.

NiNi

Pause. Pause for cause.

Twig

Michael Jackson-themed flash mob.

NiNi

Okay, not pausing. Unpausing. Go ahead.

Ben

Kurosawa is always at 11. He is an incredible character and like he and Haruta are going to get married and at the altar, Kurosawa is like. You need to go to him. You don't actually want to be here. And so Haruta runs to Maki and proposes to him at the end of the first season. 

And then there's just an incredible supporting cast in the show. I don't think we have time to talk about all of them properly, but. Haruta’s friend Chizu’s older brother Teppei runs a little bar diner that they often hang out at. He's so funny, always giving them weird gross food combinations to try out. They’re’s Maro, who's a member of their team who did not know Haruta’s given name for the years they worked together, there's Maika, who's kind of a nosy busybody at their work. She's a great source of comedy, ends up with Teppei. There's Takegawa, who's the second at their office in the first season, who is revealed to be Maki’s ex later. And he is intense as hell and becomes a complicating factor in the budding relationship between Haruta and Maki because he challenges Haruta. He's like, why is he putting this much effort into you? You suck! I really love the Takegawa character because he is a hot mess.

Twig

He just is so pained at Maki falling for a straight man. Something that is deeply relatable for anybody in queer spaces. [NiNi laughs] Like we have all been that person. Like, what are you doing to yourself?

Ben

I want to nod to Choko real quick. In the first season, Kurosawa has a wife of 30 years. Her name is Choko. Once his feelings for Haruta become known to Haruta, he decides he's going to pursue them and he tells this to his wife and they get divorced. She is understandably upset about this whole situation. But what's so great about it is, the show allows her to have a journey of figuring out what her life is going to be now that this information is out there. Like, she was hurt and upset at first, but then decides to support Kurosawa because this is her partner of 30 years and she understands him, so she ends up eventually supporting what he's trying to do with Haruta. And she ends up developing her own relationship with Maro. 

It's really cool in this show where there's this whole complicated thing about whether or not these three gay men are going to sort themselves out into various relationship configurations, they're also doing a pretty steep successful age gap romance between like a 30-something year old man and a woman approaching 60.

Twig

I love Choko's arc so much. It's the one thing that stayed with me the most. She is also allowed to be funny. She's silly and immature in the same ways that the male characters are. She's not perfect either. And I think that is super important that she's a complicated character. 

I think it's really important that this show talks about the ways in which homophobia and being in the closet hurts everyone, not just gay people. I think this show does a good job of at least alluding to the fact that the hurt that's caused by people having to live lies makes waves in communities.

NiNi

I like when they put that on older characters, as well. There's so much to unpack when you're talking about a life lived in the closet, emerging from a life lived in the closet later on in life. What you're gonna do with that life and how you're gonna treat it. From what you guys are saying about Kurosawa, it’s like he just decided to take life by the balls once he came out of the closet, and that's always something that I enjoy seeing.

Ben 

I guess, well, on some of the negatives. The humor is choppy in the first season. You do have to recalibrate as you're watching. It is very funny, but in ways that are unexpected. You will end up feeling a sense of revulsion in the show, particularly to season one Haruta. When I started going back to it, I had a difficult time with the first episode because I'm asking myself why would anyone want to fuck this man? [NiNi and Twig laugh] That is a real and valid reaction that you have to work with as you're watching the show. And so parts of it are a little bit difficult to watch in that regard. 

And Kurosawa is a huge character. You have to take time to get to know him and understand him and understand where his behaviors are coming from. And if you're not willing to do that work, the show is super off putting. 

Twig 

It is loud. You do have to allow your comedy ear to calibrate to its shouting. 

Ben 

However, I will say that if you want to see romance in BL about older characters, Ossan’s Love is right there. The entire drama is about 30-somethings and much older dealing with life and love. There is no wistful stuff about “things were easier when we were kids” in this show at all. It is very much grounded in the perspective and dramas that people in their 30s and 40s and 50s are dealing with in life and romance. 

Twig 

I feel like the one other thing that I always feel the need to call out about the first season is Haruta, because of what his character is struggling with, is physically uncomfortable with displays of affection, and particularly with kissing, in the first season. And that can be off putting too, but he makes it clear verbally that he's not actually against physical affection, he's just familiar with it? It is one of the things that the show does better later on.

00:28:23 - Love or Dead and In The Sky

Ben 

Let's talk about the movie! Ossan’s Love: Love or Dead. 

Twig 

[laughs] Every time I think about that title, it makes me laugh, ‘cause it's just so extra. 

NiNi 

I'm sorry, Love or Dead? 

Ben

Mhmm.

Twig 

Oh yeah. 

Ben 

The premise of this movie is at the end of season one, Haruta got an opportunity to go work in Shanghai for about six months, and the guys are going to be facing a separation for a bit. There's drama when Maki goes to pick up Haruta ‘cause he's found in a compromising position, and a big part of this is Maki still dealing with his anxiety around whether or not Haruta can be a partner to him. Maki gets selected to be part of this high-powered real estate team, and there's a bunch of drama that unfolds involving a partnership with a drug peddling organization and then we end on like an action note where they have to rescue Haruta from a burning building. 

Twig 

There are explosions. 

Ben 

Lots of explosions. 

NiNi 

This sounds… delightful. This sounds like exactly my kind of crack. 

Ben 

You should watch it sincerely. 

Twig 

It is delightful. 

Ben 

If you're not certain about Ossan’s Love, legit, watching Ossan’s Love: Love or Dead is not a terrible place to start. It's a two-hour outing that covers the basic ground of the franchise, has some really strong moments, and is super cracked out. 

What's so fun in it is, we talk about the retooling of the characters. In season one, Maki and Kurosawa beef a lot over Haruta and legit get into physical brawls over it. This is a feature of the entire franchise. These men scrap on the regular. There's this great moment when they're trying to rescue Haruta from this building where Kurosawa's role as their mentor comes through and he reads Maki about how he's always holding back in the relationship. That's what I think works for me the most in this franchise, the collective love that everyone has for each other. It's true that Kurosawa is not going to succeed as a romantic rival to Maki in this story, but that doesn't mean that he's not important to everyone and everything going on. And I really, truly love that. 

Twig 

His mentorship relationship with Maki really starts to flourish in the movie, the moment where Maki’s hanging off of a ledge and Kurosawa is helping him physically back onto the ledge so he doesn’t fall into the flames, but also verbally telling him what he needs to do to save his relationship. This movie is not subtle with its metaphors. But it's such a good moment where we realize that Kurosawa plays that role for Maki, too, of a mentor, and that he's willing to do it for the relationship, even at the same time as being a love rival. And it sets up the new season really well. 

Ben 

The movie matters to the timeline of the series. The movie is not just some sort of one off moment that occurs. The events of the movie are built into the characters, and it was the beginning of them retooling how these characters function. 

NiNi 

This sounds like a very experimental type of series, just the way that they do different things each time. While they are refining their central characters and the central storylines, they're also experimenting with style and tone, and a number of other things it feels like? 

Twig 

I think that's really true. One of the things about the movie that's really fun is it's the first instance of sports in the series. We get Justice playing basketball with Haruta and working his feelings out through basketball. 

Ben 

JUSTICE!!! [Twig and Ben laugh]

Twig 

Love and peace! And that becomes a huge part of the AU and also part of Ossan’s Love Returns that I think really adds to the experience. They try things out and then if it works, they pick it up and add and yes, and it, and then they pull out the things that didn't really work. I find that really interesting to watch happen. 

NiNi 

The concept of something being iterative like that in real time, it's not for everybody. 

Ben 

This series went on to do something super experimental where a couple of months after they released a continuation movie promising that these characters would get back together, they released an alternative universe season where only Haruta and Kurosawa were present from the original cast, and now we're at an airport dealing with a completely different set of characters and a slightly different dynamic. 

It also gave Twig and I our favorite bit. 

Twig

[laughs] Dispatch! 👍

Ben

Dispatch! 👍 Oh my God. It is so funny, every single time. 

NiNi 

Every time. 

Ben 

Every episode has at least two dispatch moments. [Twig laughs] It's so fucking funny. 

Twig 

Sometimes it's to end a conversation. Sometimes it's to greet somebody, sometimes it's to shut down a conversation, distract from someone saying something you don’t want them to say. 

Ben 

So in this particular season, Kurosawa is still a leader. He is the captain of a flight crew. Haruta is a new flight attendant who is joining this team. In this case, Kurosawa is not Haruta’s long-term mentor who has been harboring a crush on him. He develops his crush in real time. Haruta moves into company housing and there's a slightly older guy there who's got a crush on Haruta, but he won't say anything about it. And then there's the meanest twink who's ever existed in BL. 

NiNi 

I mean y'all just seem to be giving me multiple reasons to watch this show at this point, so. 

Ben 

So in the second season, there's far more complicated people in the Haruta stuff. There's Kaname who is the older mechanic who lives in the dorms, and he's got this huge crush on Haruta, but he'll never say anything about it. Naruse is causing fucking problems all the time, because every time he has relationship drama and people show up at their airport to fuck with him about it, he just starts kissing Haruta to make people go away. And then people throw drinks in Haruta’s face over it. Because Tanaka Kei is a master of physical comedy. 

Twig 

One of the staples of the series is what I call the Haruta reaction supercut, where they just have multiple cuts of Haruta’s face as it morphs into more and more absurd huh, no, whaaa faces. He does bend his body in ways that's like a cartoon falling over, it's pretty incredible. 

NiNi 

Ben knows that I love physical comedy. 

Twig 

Yoshida Kotaro has incredible physical comedy, too. 

Ben 

Like if you ever want to see an old man try and kill an aging twink [Twig laughs], this is the show for you. 

I get why people who liked the first show bounced off of this, because the rest of the cast is gone. The supporting cast is a really strong part of the Ossan’s Love experience, but I really like the AU season because I think it allowed them to retool Haruta and Kurosawa. And retool the relationship between them to make it more about their mentorship. They're building that relationship in the AU season ‘cause they don't know each other. 

Twig 

The thing that I really like about the AU setup is because Haruta is coming into a new environment, we get to see him build his network of people around him over the course of the season. Showing us what's likable about Haruta because he has to charm all these people around him in order to get friends and build a community, is a really important piece of the puzzle that allowed me to get to like that character a lot more, because he was charming me at the same time. 

Ben 

We get a lot of great moments in the season. Kurosawa has been a pilot for 30 years and he decides to retire and everyone is sad about it. I'm sad about it, Twig is crying about it. 

Twig 

Mmhm. 

Ben 

He ends up inviting the three guys who we've mentioned out to hang out in the park with him. He has this sumo tournament with them where he's basically giving them the last bit of advice he's going to give them and it is, one of the most intensely emotional man moments I have had in this genre. I was losing it and I was crying. I was hollering and screaming, messaging Twig like, “Wake up, I need to talk about this right now, I don't care what you're doing. Get up.” 

Truly, it is one of the best moments in TV about the relationships between men that I have ever experienced, and it is this hyper ridiculous sumo wrestling moment in a gay romance drama in the AU season that is technically not canon, and it was the moment from the series that lingers with me the most. 

Twig 

Even in the moment they're looking at each other like, is this happening? How is this happening? This isn't real. Nobody does this. Nobody calls each other to the side of the river with a note [laughs] to hold a wrestling competition in which we talk about our feelings. 

Ben 

But it works really well. I ended up really loving the way it allowed us to think about these two men and the relationship between them. We get to appreciate how important Kurosawa is to Haruta. 

Twig 

That sumo wrestling moment allows us to see Kurosawa's relationships with all of his subordinates. The way he's so firm and so gentle with Naruse, with like “soft landing,” meanwhile, throws Haruta out of the ring. 

Ben 

The way he talks to all of these men as specific to them, like his role as leader is strongest in the AU season. My primary concern for the Thai adaptation is who is playing Kurosawa, because this character is as important as the romantic leads. 

Twig 

I think it's more important. 

Ben 

I am with Twig. Who is going to match Yoshida Kotaro in Thailand? I need to know. 

Twig 

I'm eagerly awaiting that announcement. 

NiNi 

The answer is going to be Nu Surasak or Kob Songsit.

Ben 

I really hope it's good. 

00:39:00 - Ossan’s Love Returns

Ben

Ossan's Love Returns reunites the original cast after five years. Maki is returning from an extended stint in Singapore, and now he and Haruta are gonna start their cohabitating married life together. Maki is now part of the super team at headquarters, following up on the movie. Haruta is still on the streets with regular folk, ‘cause that's where he wants to be. Kurosawa has retired, I liked that follow up from the AU season. And now he's working as a housekeeper. Maki is working too much and Haruta is still bad at house, and so they hire a housekeeper, who ends up being Kurosawa [Twig laughs] who cannot hold back his feelings for Haruta and it becomes one of the ongoing dramas of the season. 

One of the things I enjoyed in this season is… they explore how to integrate Kurosawa into their lives long term. Haruta is serious about Maki and committed to their romance. Kurosawa is also extremely important to him and he treats him like a father figure. They explicitly have Choko talk to Kurosawa about how a lot of the ways he feels [laugh] about Maki are a lot of the ways a mother-in-law might feel about their daughter-in-law with the way they beef with each other. And when we say they beef with each other, I mean, these two men are legit fighting in their kitchen, like Kurosawa hits Maki in the head repeatedly with a frying pan. Maki legit throws Kurosawa through a door at one point and knocks it off the hinges. These two men, when they scrap with each other, are fighting for real and I love it every time.

NiNi

It's just like you all conspired to come into this recording booth today and just be like, okay, so you say this and I'll say that and between us we're gonna get her to watch this, because she likes this kind of stuff.

Ben

I didn't really have to work that hard. We're just legit talking about what the show was doing. We get a really great season of Maki and Haruta settling into what their life is going to look like. There's some introduced new characters in the season that we all had very complicated feelings about who I think end up fitting fine by the end. Most of the original cast comes back and there's like a really great bit of exploring what all these characters settling into their relationships that they got into in the first season in this one. 

So Haruta and Maki are now living together and figuring out what that is going to look like, who are they gonna be as a couple now that they're not doing long distance ‘cause they've basically been long distance between every outing. Which I think was a clever choice because it means that the characters’ relationship dynamic doesn't really move that much between outings. 

Choko is now living with Maro and Maro’s mom, and Choko is struggling because she's older than Maro's mom. She can't just treat this woman like her mother-in-law. And Maro doesn't know how to help because he's caught between his wife, who's way older than him, and his mom, who's confused and a little bit uncertain about this whole dynamic.

Twig

I also love that that's not the only thing we see Choko having worked through in the time we've been apart from her. She opened an archery range after her divorce, and sort of reinvented herself with this new life that she's actually thriving in.

Ben

They get new neighbors who are a bunch of weirdos.

Twig

[laughs] They're so weird. They're so weird.

Ben

These two are revealed to be members of, like, a public security division that maybe doesn't actually exist. Izumi ends up becoming obsessed with Haruta because he's a doppelganger for his dead lover who was killed in the line of duty, who is very, very different from Haruta. It was fun to see Tanaka Kei play a very different type of character in those flashbacks. I don't know that it entirely landed for me over the course of the season, but by the finale, which was fantastic, I was okay with them.

Twig

A large part of the way they were written is that they were a mystery for a large part of it, too. It's hard to bond with a character that you know nothing about and is intentionally opaque.

Ben

Chizu is trying to make it as a single mom and this reinforces one of the big themes of the season, that family is all the people who are going to show up for you all the time. She relies on Teppei and Maika to help, and she feels guilty about this and they tell her straight up, like, don't feel guilty. We are a family. You should rely on us. 

She had already made Haruta and Maki designated adults who can pick up her kid from the daycare. An important gay right of passage is your friend calling you and telling you I need you to go pick up my kid, and then you show up at said kindergarten to pick up a kid and they look at your ID and they go “oh you're allowed” and the kid runs to you and everybody goes, well, that makes sense. An important gay moment that everyone must experience.

Twig

One of the things that I love about this so much is that it picks up from a throw away line that Chizu says in the movie. She sort of brags that she's going to balance having a kid and her career. One of the things about the series is that it really feels like the people who are writing it love the whole series and are constantly thinking about how to call back in loving ways and how to pick up threads in loving ways. Something that she just sort of confidently stated she was going to do no problem in the movie becomes a whole plot in the following season.

Ben

There's a final arc in the season where Kurosawa has a health scare where we think he's going to die.

Twig

When we were talking about it, Ben, you said that it was an important moment for Maki and Haruta to confront the idea that Kurosawa won't always be around. And I was like, oh, that's why I don't like this part because I don't want to ever think about that. [Twig and Ben laugh]

Ben

The entire finale is this really great examination about the way this whole group of people are a family to each other.

Twig

It's not even just that it's happening, but they're explicit about it. They're having conversations about what is family? What are we to each other? How do we define our relationship? Where do those lines get drawn? And the answer is just sort of, yes.

Ben

There's an explicit line, like, what is Kurosawa to them? And then Maika comes over and hammers it home for the audience and is like, “There's no need to describe it. What matters is you all are going to be part of each other's lives forever.”

00:45:33 - Final Thoughts and Ratings

Ben

I don't think we talked about it as much. So, the first season is pretty light on kissing and intimacy between the male characters. Ossan's Love Returns is not! There's so much married intimacy between Haruta and Maki.

Twig

The casual intimacy in Ossan's Love Returns is constant, and it just feels very lived in? They're just constantly touching each other and having small kisses and teasing each other.

Ben

We got more of that today in the unexpected special spin-offs we're getting. I was like “ohh, I thought we were done. Oh, it's another cute little 20-minute office episode ending on the two of them making out next to the copier.” Love it.

NiNi

This is called Forbidden Gout Temps Nouveau. 

Twig

Mhmm.

NiNi

I have so many questions, but I feel like I should not ask those questions right now.

Ben

My general attitude is you don't need to watch all of Ossan's Love to enjoy parts of Ossan's Love. I think if you are interested in gay domesticity and complex family units, you can just watch Ossan's Love Returns right away.

NiNi

I'm watching it all. Eventually. I don't know when. There's a lot going on in the IRL space right now, but I'm gonna be watching the whole thing.

Twig

I feel like I should say something about the original short. It has a lot of the things that people found the hardest to swallow about season one. A lot of the stuff that they did originally they fixed or did better as they moved through. I would say the short is the thing to skip, of all of it, unless you're really curious about the journey of this franchise.

NiNi

I'm really fascinated by the idea of this as a reserve process of working through and refining the show in kind of a real time. I would like to see the whole thing just for that purpose. I'm a writer, so the way that this feels like multiple drafts, and you getting to actually see the multiple drafts to see why they might have decided to make a particular change in the next draft, or why they would have gone for an overhaul, or what would they have tweaked around the edges. I like the idea of looking at that.

Twig

It is not just the writing that they iterate. We haven't talked a lot about the visual effects that this show uses, but it has its own style. One of my favorites: it uses the bokeh effect, where the lighting in the background is blurred and sometimes takes shapes. It starts from the very beginning. You'll see the lights behind Kurosawa make little hearts while he's confessing to Haruta and Haruta’s has little like stop signs. [Ben laughs] And then they get bigger and bigger with that where Kurosawa’s hearts have little like heartbreak. They have– there’s little, like, zigzags in the hearts behind him when he gets rejected. Sometimes he'll be crying tear lights. That’s just one of the things that they play with in the different versions.

Ben

Naruse having that whole tantrum trying to get someone's attention for help? Then having that super cut of them screaming and then smash cutting to them just sitting at the table. There's like the courtroom audio stinger that dominates the first season that I fucking love [mimics the sound] thing that happens over the course of the whole season. It's so, so dramatic, and I'm like, “Is Judge Mathis gonna walk out? What is happening?”

Twig

Oh, and they do this thing where they hard cut to a visual metaphor like water leaking out of a water bottle or a pot boiling to represent the character’s emotions. There's so many visual moments. It's not just written well and acted well. It's also represented visually really well, and seeing how they experiment with that and how that changes. Like, the weird bobble heads we got in the AU season. I'm still not over those. I'm glad those didn't return.

Ben

It is not a perfect show. This is not a “Everybody was wrong. They should have watched all of this. Grab your pitchfork!” situation. This is not an easy show to love. If you can find your way to loving the show, I think it has been one of the most rewarding watches I've had in the genre since What Did You Eat Yesterday? 

Japanese BL is different from Thai BL. More experimental and weirder things are gonna happen over time if the series has a lot of leg in it, and Ossan's Love is one of those that has so much leg in it. Like the second season just ended, and I'd be okay if we don't see them again, but, I really hope we do.

Twig

Me too.

NiNi

All right, so let's get into ratings. I mean, is this the kind of thing that you rate? Instead of rating, let's rank. If you had to rank the different parts of the Ossan's Love franchise, how would you rank them? In terms of, for you, most enjoyable to probably the least enjoyable?

Ben

Well, the least enjoyable is the original special. It's the most rough and the hardest to swallow. I think the best season is the current one?

Twig

Yeah. I mean, for me, it's basically chronological order, I think. I struggle between the film and the AU ‘cause I like them for different reasons, and I struggled with them for different reasons. But I think Naruse tips it over there so that it stays ahead.

Ben

[Ben and Twig laugh] I love that mean twink!

Twig

He's just so great.

Ben

I don't know that I'd want to…rank them that way. I think each outing adds something to it. It's really a question of, do you like seeing people try to get together for the first time, or do you really like seeing people be together? For me, I'm very partial to Ossan's Love Returns because it's about gay life drama, which is what I’ve wanted for a while. And so I'm really fucking enjoying that.

Twig

Yeah, I love it when people have to figure out, “Now that we're in this relationship, how do we make this work?”

Ben

But I also love the AU season. I think the retooling of Haruta and Kurosawa is actually really helpful. I think taking a break from Maki is actually helpful for appreciating Haruta when you come back to them. I think you end up liking Haruta more by the time you get to Ossan's Love Returns and seeing the potential in him. The love people are trying to pour on to him in the current season is more accessible to me as a viewer because I got to spend time with Haruta growing to love him in the AU season.

Twig

I also just have affection for an entire season that seems to have basically been built off of like a throwaway reference to episode one, when Haruta says he's most attracted to stewardesses. And then, and also, like, maybe a pun because Kurosawa’s character is called bucho which means, like, manager essentially through all of the regular Ossan's Love stories. But in the AU he's kucho because he's a captain. And I think that's very funny.

Ben

In terms of my ratings, I'm looking at on MDL, I gave Ossan's Love and Ossan's Love Returns a 9. But I gave the AU season a 9.5. [Ben and Twig laugh] So, there's your answer.

Twig

There you go.

Ben

Twig, what did you rate the second season? I know ratings aren't always your thing, but did you give the second season a rating?

Twig

I didn't. If I was going to give it a rating. Ossan's Love Returns? Yeah, I’d give it a 9.

Ben

It's a 9 for me in that I think if you're into BL, you should watch the show, but I don't know that it is the most accessible show, so I don't want to give it a 10.

Twig

I think the thing about this show, too, is it's about multiple relationships. It's not just about Maki and Haruta, and I wouldn't even say their relationship dominates the story. So, to rank it against other BL as a romance narrative is quite difficult. It's about family and what that means in a queer context. Part of that is romance, but it's not even the biggest part? The family feels is what gets me about this series.

Ben

That's going to do it for Ossan's Love. We have succeeded at our mission. NiNi has agreed to watch the show. Twig and I got to unpack the entirety of this whole franchise. We have the benefit of knowing it gets better over time now, and so I don't begrudge people bouncing when they did in 2018. I think that in 2024, it is beneficial for people who care about the history of the genre to go back and properly engage with Ossan's Love. I genuinely think it is worth reconsidering your initial opinion. They… grow. Their characters are not static. What has occurred is taken seriously and what worked and didn't work is considered as they move forward.

NiNi

That is going to wrap us up on the Ossan's Love episode. Twig, it was so great having you on, and I hope you come back.

Twig

Thank you so much for having me. It was really fun.

NiNi

With that, we out. Say bye to the people, Twig.

Twig

Dispatch!👍

Ben

Dispatch! 👍

NiNi

At some point I'm going to find out what that means, and then I will be unstoppable. Say bye to the people, Ben.

Ben

Peace.

[crowleysgirl56]

The year was 1996. Growing up in Australia one of our free to air TV channels (channel 7 specifically) had a kids morning program that would show random cartoons (shout out to anyone who understands when I reference Agro’s Cartoon Connections). One particular morning I woke to a new cartoon. The animation style reminded me of Transformers and its theme song began with a catchy guitar riff.

🎶Fighting evil by moonlight. Winning love by daylight!🎶

Wait. What?! This is certainly something that Ive never seen before. Intrigued I watched with rapt fascination. There was a talking cat and a girl with beautiful long hair who was actually a secret super hero.

Her name was Sailor Moon.

I was 12 years old and completely hooked. I immediately started wearing my hair in pigtails (I was never able to grow my hair long and it was always terribly thin. Oh that hair envy never went away). I fantasied about how I was also a secret moon princess and one day my Tuxedo Mask would find me and whisk me away. I would look for Luna on every corner, but the talking cat never showed up.

I remember crying so hard when Serena and Darian (original English dubbing!) were separated and ached for them to be reunited (gee, funny how those kinds of obsessions never go away. Or just get transferred…). It was only ever season 1 and 2 that aired here and I was lucky that they replayed it at least three times over the years. I remember there was this one tiny shop at my main shopping centre devoted to anime (a rare thing in the 90’s and early 2000’s) where you could buy VHS copies of season 1 and 2. Unfortunately a poor high school student could not afford $36 a tape.

Years later when Sailor Moon Crystal started, the same English dub cast redubbed the entire original series as well. I eventually collected them and watched them all on DVD, and watched all the episodes I never saw (man, Sailor Moon Super S really rambles doesn’t it).

I loved Crystal because I thought the retelling in a more condensed version (without the filler episodes) got us to the point of the arc much quicker. And I like that Usagi and Mamaro didn’t hate each other to begin with.

With the second part of Sailor Moon Cosmos now watched it brings my Sailor Moon journey to an end (well…not quite an end, I never did get around to reading the mangas). But as a 40 year old woman who’s been obsessed with this show since before I was a teenager, I’m always amazed I still love it as much as I do. So whenever anyone ever tells you “this is just a passing fad. You’ll grow out of it” or somehow makes you feel disparaged for loving something so intensely, remember the things you like are for you and you alone and no one can tell you how to go about loving them.

So here’s to my first love. My first obsession. My first hyperfixation. The first couple that I desperately wished could be together, whose love never strayed far from my mind. Thank you for the journey!

[stickynotelovers-art]

Hello sorry to bother you with this all of sudden ,and this might be coming out of nowhere, and I’m not trying to force you or be pushy  I’m just trying to get more people into this show with great potential. You can ignore this if you want. If your not interested it’s fine but Have you heard of or watched moon girl and devil dinosaur? Season 2 premier happened

The main character I love she gives me autistic vibes I’m autistic. The show has interesting characters, action ,great music, and animation ,good themes and representation, Anime references, plenty of Sailor Moon references too it even has an eyecatch season 2 is going to be more story driven if you find that interesting. It also shares the same animation studio as rise of the teenage mutant ninja turtles.

It be good if you also watch the season 2 episodes when they air so the ratings will be higher. 

I think Disney might be trying to sabotage the show with them dropping 14 episodes on Disney +  Feb 3 which has passed.and it’s only half of season 2. We have a week or two to binge it.They did similar with season 1 and the ratings where low ,please watch season 2 episodes when they air on. But more importantly also watch it on Disney + in feb and when they air it on YouTube. Unfortunately they dropped 14 episodes on Disney + so watch them all in a day if you can but also when they air the first time if you have cable.

I’m not just saying only cable just also. I’m saying please support this show. Despite that it still won 5 Emmys. Also if it’s no trouble could if it alright with you spread the word about this show to others you know like either online or irl. Time is limited!

Hey there, you aren't being a bother. Sorry it's taking me some time to answer this.

I have heard of the show, but haven't watched it myself. It has been recommended to me by my sister, who is a very good judge of things I would enjoy.

There's not really anyone outside of my family that I know who would watch it, or they already are watching it/have seen it. So there aren't a lot of people I can suggest it to watch.

I'm not really watching anything new at the moment because I'm trying to work on things I've already been putting off in books and games right now.

[they-them-that]

My Trans-Lesbian-Awakening Characters lol

Haruka Tenoh (Sailor Moon)

I believe Haruka was my first introduction to a lesbian and gender nonconforming (gnc) character! Discovering she was a girl along with Usagi and Minako blew my mind. The idea of a masc presenting girl was a revelation and I also found the fact other girls were attracted to her to be enviable, even when I watched the English version where her queerness was erased.

Trixie Tang (The Fairly Odd Parents)

The episode "The Boy Who Would Be Queen" was cathartic for young me. Although the episode was about overcoming gender stereotypes, Trixie's story felt relatable from a trans perspective. Her male persona outside of school and her interests in doing "boy stuff" but feeling pressured to maintain a feminine image for social acceptance resonated with me deeply. It's a shame we never got to see this side of Trixie outside the one episode.

Kaoru Matsubara (Powerpuff Girls Z)

I remember her introduction was her dodging a flock of fan girls on her skateboard. I was immediately pleased that the anime version of my favourite Powerpuff girl was that of a womanizing gender-bending skater girl lol. I felt annoyed along with her that she was forced to wear a skirt in her magical girl form.

Yui Goido (The World God Only Knows)

Even with her out-of-nowhere appearance in the second season, I was immediately enthralled by her princely demeanor and the way she casually blurred gender roles. I had to read her arc in the manga that was tragically skipped over and it screamed trans. Yui's conflict was her being forced to be traditionally feminine. Her body swapping and getting to live as a boy seemed to have given her gender euphoria that when she returned to her body, she started wearing the boys' school uniform, changed her hair to make it more androgynous, and started using "boku" to refer to herself (which is a masculine pronoun). Her personality also becomes a lot more confident, it's like watching a trans masc person finally be able to be themselves! The show may not appeal to me now but Yui was a big comfort character.

Mettaton (Undertale)

Mettaton's unique and subtle trans story felt so palpable to me that it made me resonate strongly with his character. When I learnt about his backstory, I felt genuine sympathy for him and his cousins. I love his charisma and how much queer energy he exudes!

Pearl (Steven Universe)

Pearl will always be a deeply important character to me for how much she contributed to my queer actualization. I think it's because I grew up with her as the cartoon series ran throughout my entire teenhood that she has been the most pivotal character for me. Getting to see this character who epitomized lesbianism and growth felt integral to my understanding of the queer community and myself.

Special mentions of just my overall queer comfort characters lol:

Haruhi Fujioka (Ouran High School Host Club), Yuu Kashima (Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun), Double Trouble (She-Ra and The Princesses of Power), Kou Seiya (Sailor Moon), Carmen Sandiego (2019 version), Ryuko Matoi (Kill La Kill), Frankie Stein (Monster High), Marceline (Adventure Time)

[localfanbaselurker]

Yall know the drill!! Let’s get it baby!!

Watching Voltron: LD for the First Time and Saying What I Think

S1-2 | S3 | S4 | S5 | S6 | you are here! | S8

upon formatting this debrief/review, I realized quite quickly that I was gonna run out of the image limit too soon, no matter how many collages I made, so some ideas are better if you specifically remember scenes. Click on images for better quality! I apologize, I only have tumblr on mobile. please enjoy this edition anyway!

Pre-Season 7 Thoughts

-> I said in my S6 post that I thought it could be a decent ending if some strings were finally tied, so hopefully this season clears those up

-> S6 was pretty intense at the end, hopefully they tone it down a notch as they go on their little earth roadtrip

-> the aftermath of Lotor dying is definitely something that will weigh on Allura. Hopefully she doesn’t get too torn up about it

-> I’m really curious as to how the new team dynamics will play out now that Kieth is back as black paladin. Will they go back to s1? s3? Will they just act like nothing??

-> really wanna scene where keith calls krolia mom for the first time

-> what is with this “game show” episode??

-> I’m curious as to how ships will play out now.. Lance seems to be okay with Allura not liking him back after s6, their talk was really nice. As much as I think they look cute together, Allura needs time to get over Lotor first, and Lance seems to be already moving on.

-> now that Kieth is back, I wonder if there was more “klance moments” for people to go crazy over

->also where has Matt been this whole time??

-> them going to earth will probably explore their families, and i really wanna see more of their lore. (Especially keith)

->Hopefully shiro finally gets a break after everything. I’m excited to see who this love interest of his is!!

Post-Season 7

-> holy fuck. yall did not lie. that was…intense.

->ultimately I did not get my pre-s7 wish then.

-> I really liked all the keith/shiro lore about their relationship. It was really sweet. Shiro was the first person (besides his dad I guess) to show him patience and kindness. That’s so heartwarming.

->added to all the motifs and references to them saving each other,,very sweet. I love found family stuff like that. so i very much liked that episode (besides the “tiny” subplot lolz)

-> Romelle (as opposed to the name I gave her: “sailor moon altean girl”) is actually so real. She and hunk have the same “only normal one” vibe and i respect that.

-> literally where was haggar/honerva this whole time. Did she take a sabbatical or something??

->this image is so chaotic…literally what are yall doing 😭

->cosmic wolf (Kosmo, apparently) dgaf I love him

-> Allura is such a cutie.. “but I’m terrible at drawing! 😔” I love her so much

->^hunk upgraded his bayard!! Yayyyyy! More character development!!!

->Axca is back! (I have since long stopped calling her “space asami girl”)

-> i think she’s a really interesting character. While the other of Lotor’s generals go for whatever seems right for them, (as you should in war) she seems to calculate things on a matter of both that and morality, while also looking at the big picture. “Well, this would save my ass, save the universe from chaos, and be morally intact…sounds good”

->^is this the klance moment? seems a little sad tbh. why Lance is like that “wait where are you going?” relax bro he’s not gonna disappear

-> they’ve been gone FOR THREE YEARS????

-> what the FREAK.

-> imagine now how their families have missed them 🙁 I’m actually so sad abt that ☹️

->the game show ep…was really funny. Idk where yall got all this angst from. New mission: write a fluff one shot post-game show.

->^i literally cannot get over this??? Like.. they could’ve really made him say anything else. “because mullet here would punch you to the end of eternity if he didn’t get out *smirk*” or something like that but no it /had/ to be that. And the others thought it was odd too, I mean look at their expressions.

->And same goes for Keith??? If you don’t wanna spend an eternity with Lance just pick yourself?? There had to be another reason. If they made all the other characters say insightful and heartfelt things about one another, why can’t Keith say anything?

-> I think because keith and Lance chose each other, making both of them say nice things would drive you guys a little crazy, so I think they tried to just “klance-proof” (like baby-proof) this season by making them barely interact unless it’s a battle or doing so in a s1/2 way

->Because otherwise keith acted…really out of character..? I think it might be to his growth on the quantum abyss trip, but it just felt so odd to watch him this season

->the “floating in space” episode was actually super interesting to watch. Going space crazy caused for their truest thoughts and desires to come out from the dark. (going to earth, what they think about each others’ actions) I thought that was really cool.

->KEITH CALLED KROLIA MOM!!! IT HAPPENED!! OMG. SCREAMING CRYING THROWING UP FALLING TO MY KNEES AT WALMART!!!!!!!!🫡💪🔥🔊🗣️

->Krolia and kolivan definitely explored each other’s bodies idgaf. Kolivan is the dad that stepped up fr.

->Colleen Holt is an icon. She’s a girlboss. She’s a legend. I love her so much. Sam better watch out 🤛👊🤜

->^from “who is this divaaaa 😍😍” to “OMG GIRL LANCE??? 😮😁” to “OMG LANCE’S SISTERRRRR😆🤩”

->^is this not the “the pilot crashed!” girl from 1x01??

->tbh i literally could give less of a fuck about these people. The girls seem cool I guess. But I don’t really care about any of them.

->also no way they deadass named a dude kinkade. That was wild even for them (I’m so sorry if it’s a cultural thing)

->^I love it when they do little homage bits like referencing back s1 or 2 like this

->^screaming crying throwing up.

->^^that hug between pidge and her mom..i felt that. that shit was personal. Ya’ll see the way she held on to her? Diabolical work. (I’m tearing up as I type this)((that’s exactly how I’ve held my mom b4))

->^^^“uncle lance!” STOP. DON’T DO THIS TO ME. I CAN’T DO THISSSSSS *screams*

->HUUUNNNKKKK. MY BOYYYYY. UGHHHHHH. I’m gonna die

-> I will say this tho, I’m glad he’s getting a lot of focus and attention his way these last few seasons (6&7). Like yes!! Give the realest mf in the whole show the attention and appreciation he deserves!!!

->I was so happy when he got his parents back like I genuinely did a little celebratory dance (jumping up and down and going “yes!yes!yesyesyesyes! yeeeessssssss!” while doing exaggerated hand gestures)

->Adam fucking died.

->not even one scene showing his and shiro’s positive interactions. or them being romantic. one and a half scenes. And then he’s gone.

-> while, for the most part, I try to understand the writers faults further than just face level, (ie netflix or dreamworks just didn’t let them explicitly put anything there) idk I just. I feel like they could’ve at least played it off as them being “good friends” or something. But to kill him off is just…it feels wrong.

->and it feels like a wrong for shiro too. He finally gets to be on earth after everything that’s happened to him, and the one thing he’d been hoping to finally see,,is gone.

->I just feel like they did shiro dirty. they can never give that poor man a break.

->^I was right! Keith is definitely acting different because of his growth on the quantum abyss (or “space whale” as people seem to call it). It’s nice to know he’s matured and stuff, and can actually say what he feels and such, be a good team member/leader. I just wish it wasn’t all off-screen. (and while I’m happy for him..I do miss his more broody early-season self a bit)

->as much as I think allurance is cute, I feel like they’re kinda rushing it. Like. by the time they got to Earth it had barely been a month of being stuck in space post-s6. Maximum it’s been 3 months by the time of the final battle. she would not be blushing. She would be mourning Lotor. They could’ve had a little subplot about that,,the crushing weight of knowing she could’ve both stopped his death and the guilty feeling of “why am i mourning him..? He was a bad person” because she still loved him!! She still loved him when they were about to leave him in the quintessence field and she felt conflicted!!

->she would’ve also not caught feelings that fast. Let’s say she somehow miraculously got over Lotor in 2 months. (minimum!) she still wouldn’t have caught feelings! Maybe she would start like. the budding processes to begin to fall for lance…but she wouldn’t be blushing and being all bashful like that.

-> basically all I’m saying is I really hope they don’t rush this. It would feel unfair to both her and Lance. Allura literally was like “oh..😕 he said that..☹️?” In s6 when the mice told her about Lance’s feelings because she felt bad about breaking his heart.

->and Lance has literally been after her for a really long time,, so it’d be unfair to pair him with someone who only started liking him like a week ago.

->I also hate the “guy pines after girl, girl doesn’t reciprocate and turns him down a lot, guy almost gives up, girl starts falling for him just as the show ends after not showing any interest previously” trope. (I am aware Allura and Lance do share some more sweet and romantic scenes/moments in s4-6, but you catch my drift, right?)

-> I really hope they put it well in s8.

->^I got to that Lance scene I’ve seen everywhere and just. Wow. it was so intense. I actually got chills. Amazing work from the animation crew yet again.

-> the final battle was sooo amazing and so beautiful.

->the atlas stuff kinda threw me off tho.

->that admiral sanda girl was a bitch (i do not use that term lightly, especially for female characters) and not to sound like a maniac im glad she died ngl. She was stupid as hell if she thought her plan would work.

->also if the galra can invent something that can easily overpower Voltron, then why don’t they just take over the universe themselves?? They clearly have the resources to.

->seriously the atlas’s stuff was insane. Fym it’s a ship that makes a bigger, cooler, grizzled Voltron??(yes I will forever use that joke)

->^because like. Then what do you need Voltron for??

->like the pacing and plot twists and shit felt so off and out of nowhere this season.

->and the real kicker was the altean chick controlling that giant monster thang. literally what the freak. where the cameras at I know I’m getting pranked right now. they were just pulling shit out of their asses by then.

->again, need to say, if it weren’t for that altean chick, this could’ve also been a good ending?? like after reading the Wikipedia page I found out they had a 72 episode contract, so they need to get those last episodes out, (76 total, I did the math) but if anything I think it would be best if it was just a little anthology sort of thing. Like them defeating the rest of the galra left out, freeing planets, and focusing on their own lives and relationships (during and after). That would be probably the best course of action for s8.

->but apparently it has a “bad ending” (which I’m pretty sure is just ship stuff and people exaggerating)

->erm yeah that’s pretty much it. I think. Yay!

These are thoughts I compile over time. I finished Season 7 on 10/12/24. I apologize for my delay on posting this, I was meant to post it last week. I will now finally start what you have probably all been waiting for: Season 8.

Remember, my ask box is always open!! Feel free to ask anything on my opinions and such!!

[rosenbraut]

Hey Marie!

How are you? Are you enjoying Tumblr more?

So I have started revolutionary girl utena (the way i known it could have changed the trajectory of my entire life if i had seen it at eight) and I am in love with the concepts, the themes, the architectures, everything.

Do you have similar books/movies to recommend? Any other media?

Hi!! 🌹🍓

I’m trying! :)

And I’m so, so happy you enjoyed Utena!!! Ever since I first came into contact with the phenomenon that is revolutionary girl Utena, I’ve been trying to find something that evokes a similar emotion. So far, I haven’t found anything that combines elements in a similar way — as you mentioned, there are so many aspects of it, themes, art, music, architecture. I feel like maybe we’ll have to accept that it is a completely unique piece of fiction. However, we can still read!

What I think might be a fun endeavour is to make a list of the references they make and compile a reading list out of that. Astronomy, psychoanalysis, myths, art history, there’s a LOT to dig into and I feel like enriching our own inner lives will prolong our enjoyment of Utena and deepen our enjoyment of the other material it’s referencing (if that makes sense). In the meantime, while I compile that list, here are some other things:

fairy tales (eastern European and German especially) for their interwoven morals and thoughts on death and agency. Reread sleeping beauty and savour every word (bones wrapped in rose vines), dig into Tsarevich Ivan, the Firebird and the Gray Wolf and think about fate and rebirth.

Demian by Herman Hesse. It seems that not many people know that the show (not the film or manga) directly quote Hesse every single episode — or both go back to the same source, I’m not sure which. Either way: Demian comes close in many aspects. Not telling you which ones <3 (I read it without knowing anything about it because I saw that quote and I think it was the best possible way to come into contact with that book, so I’ll let you enjoy it the same way)

The Marriage of Cadmus and Harmony by Roberto Calasso analyses and compares Greek myths, weaves them together and summarises them in ways you might not have thought about before.

The God of Small Things by Arundhati Roy for thoughts on trauma and beauty, history and sibling relationships.

Nabokov in general for various thoughts on language, isolation, beauty. Invitation to a Beheading for that doomed isolation. Ada or Ardor if you were intrigued by the highly mannerist incest (it’s more carnal in Nabokov, but still extremely gorgeous and soaked with that same old blood elitism and high profile intellectualism)

Apart from that, I feel like SKU is a child of its time. If you look at other manga from the time just before the new millennium, there are a lot of reoccurring themes. Sailor Moon, X (which I never finished, so this is just a first impression), etc all feature themes like the end of the world, other universes, secret societies and glittering architecture in dark voids. I’m always on the lookout for more manga from around that time because the strange future nostalgia is so fascinating to me.

[bigmammallama5]

Just finished the first season of the x-files and while I loved looking at Gillian Anderson in impecable fashion for 20+ episodes, I have to ask: is there ever more of an overarching plot beyond “aliens are real and the government is hiding it”? Because it feels like that was the main conclusion at the end of the season, but it was pretty much established by episode 5, so what was the point of the rest of it?? They kept introducing different aliens with not a single reference to events of previous episodes, save for Tooms, and I walked away from the season feeling a little like nothing of meaning had happened for 15 episodes!

So, two things I really miss most about TV is the serialization of longer seasons, and the Monster Of The Week format.

Over the seasons the main theme is, yes, the government is hiding the existence of ETs, but there is a more complex arc of a planned invasion to also go along with the building multi-layered relationship between Mulder and Scully. But other than that, it's probably like (and I'm being generous here) 40% plot and 60% monster of the week, where you get fun creepy paranormal one-off episodes that usually don't tie back in! Which is the format a lot of longer-episodic shows used to do. That's how Xena Warrior Princess and the Hercules show were also made. AND Buffy, Doctor Who, Smallville, Supernatural, Charmed, Scooby-Doo, and Sailor Moon.

Some current shows do attempt to do some of this format, but [insert rant about the greed of networks pulling reruns and screwing over cast and crew pushing everything to streaming to circumvent paying out residuals] the length of seasons has drastically shrunk and this format has largely been put on the shelf and why I personally think neckflick shows are exhausting. With these older shows while nothing may happen to tie in to the plot every single episode, you get these nice character-heavy one-off episodes of "what would they do in This Situation™" (also allowing better pacing through the 24-28 episodes of a season).

So uh. Yeah. Those gaps were on purpose LOL.