#i love using Regina Mills from OUAT

[swanqueensalad]

fandom is so weird because like... am i grown woman? yes. has it been the better part of a decade since i first watched ouat and fell in love with regina mills? yes. i was a child then. i am an adult now. i have less free time and more worries and yet when i find myself struggling or having a bad time, what do i turn to? thinking about my goddamn blorbo. writing fic wherein i can better understand parts of my own troubles via these fictional people who i have come to know, over the years, as if they are old friends. sharing shitposts with u lot to make u giggle. there is an unending well of comfort and familiarity here that is so strange and silly and special.

[darkpoisonouslove]

Hi! For the ask game. For your delightful Shadow Queen fic, Breakfast, how do you think Regina's relationship with Facilier developed over time from the point where your fanfiction diverged from canon to the story itself?

Edit: OH, MY FUCKING GOD! I just noticed this was in the queue. I thought I posted it. So sorry for that! I definitely was not ignoring this ask! I've had it written since August 30th. I don't know what happened.

Hi! Glad you like the fic!

To be fair, I don't really have anything deep about him (obviously) deciding to abandon his quest for power in favor of his relationship with Regina. I was kind of riding on the proof in the show that he would put Regina and her feelings over everything else. His interest in the dagger was completely unmotivated and I think they just had it as a built-in setup for killing him off. I imagine the idea was that he was somehow tempting Regina into her old patterns of wanting everything and reverting to villainy (much the same as Rumple manipulating her for the better part of her life, especially since Facilier was practically Rumple 2.0) except that that went nowhere because he was just So. Good! for her. I'm really not sure what happened in the writers' room but anyway, my idea with the story was just "axe the moment of Facilier's death because it was stupid (and more than questionable) and from there it will all happen naturally since the dagger is also gone once Rumple dies". Those were pretty much the only obstacles between them and with them removed, I really think that the two of them would have been a couple.

I wish I could give a more detailed answer but, truly, Facilier had so little screen time and development that we are completely in the dark on his story or his motives. Instead, I just rolled with him being written as total husband material. You know, I am willing to entertain the idea that there might have been some need to process emotions and heal from Robin's death on Regina's side simply for the realization that the universe sent her Facilier after Daniel's death and then returned him to her after Robin's death. Almost as if they were meant to be together (btw, I have a sort of meta/kinda rewrite about the whole soulmate story with Robin that would bridge canon and this nicely but I'll have to work on it some other time) and help her find herself again when she feels like she's lost in grief.

[greyfongschemmenti]

This Is How It Feels | Part 1

Pairing: Regina Mills x Reader

Warnings: none?

Word Count: 1k

Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3

Summary:

In a mystical town where dark magic intertwines with everyday life, the formidable and wicked Mayor holds sway over all. One rainy night, a mysterious stranger appears, a curious mind who slowly will uncover secrets and allure. As the Mayor and the stranger's paths cross, a forbidden attraction blooms, leading to a spark that both don’t understand. Can love and happiness be brought with danger, betrayal, and a battle between light and darkness.

Notes:

As I’m rewatching OUAT I have gotten the feeling to write this fanfic. Hopefully you all will like it. I will try to keep the gender of the reader neutral.

The rain poured relentlessly as you arrived in the quaint town of Storybrooke, your car broke down at the town’s entrance and you’ve been walking into town seeking a dry place to wait out the storm. You find the only place that’s open tonight, a diner by the name of Granny’s. Shrugging your backpack on you push the door to head inside the establishment. There’s some people in the establishment, a couple of young adults chatting and laughing over milkshakes and fries. You wipe the raindrops off your sleeves then find an empty booth in the corner.. You place the backpack in first then take a seat looking at the door, a little quirk you always do for safety. You hate having your back towards a door. Reaching down your pocket you pull out your phone to realize it has no power “crap, I forgot to charge it”. You mutter under your breath as a menu slide towards you “Welcome to Granny’s! Oh my, you're soaked!” a red haired young waitress greets you warmly. 

You look up and give her a small smile then take the menu to give it a glance “thanks, um yeah my car broke down just at the entrance of town. Had to walk in the wait to find help”

“I'm so sorry to hear that! Let me get you a towel and a hot cup of coffee to warm you up.” She pours you a cup of coffee and look at you more intently as you look at the menu “I don’t think I’ve seen you here before”

“Uhh, yeah I’m not…from here. I was—“ you begin to explain but notice eyes looking your way. Ruby looks over her shoulders then turns back to you “don’t worry this town isn’t used to new people.” She kindly explains as she gives you a warm smile. 

You sit up straight and tug on your sleeves as a defense mechanism “I see that. Um thanks for the coffee. I think I’ll just have this for right now” you give her a soft smile. Ruby returns the smile and turns to leave when you almost forgot “oh! I’m sorry. Do you have a phone I could use to call a mechanic?” 

Ruby gives you a nod “yeah sure, but Billy's shop is closed for the day. We have lodging. You’re more than welcome to stay here until he opens. His shop isn’t that far from here” she gives you a sympathetic smile 

You look at her and give a short nod “That sounds perfect. I'm grateful for your help.” Giving her a small smile as she turns back to head to the counter. You prepare your coffee then take a sip. The door opens and a dark haired woman steps inside heading toward the counter “Ms. Lucas can I get a coffee to go?” Her voice is short and direct as she pulls her dark gloves off her hands. 

“Sure thing Madam Mayor” 

She turns around to face the crowd as she leans against the counter to wait for her order.You glance around the diner when your eyes rest on the mayor. you gaze at her profile and feel a pull. You shake your head in disbelief as you take another sip of coffee. Sliding out of the booth to grab your backpack. You reach down into your pocket to pull out your wallet and take out a couple of dollars for the coffee and tip. You turn around when with a second to react you grab the person you almost collide with by the arms to prevent them from falling. 

Time seemed to stand still as your gaze met the Mayor’s. In that instant, a torrent of emotions surged through your body. Your heart quickened its pace, aflutter with a mix of excitement and nervousness. A tingling sensation crept up your spine, sending shivers down your arms as if touched by an unseen force. Not understanding why you’re feeling like this.

“Watch where you’re going” the dark haired woman raised her voice. A flush of embarrassment tinged your cheeks, but you quickly regained your composure as you released her arms. "I'm sorry," you murmured softly, straightening up.

The Mayor looks you up and down in a quick glance. She quickly composed herself, her lips curved into a small smile as she spoke, "Well, you saved me a day at the cleaners, so no harm done." She raised her coffee cup in cheers, the warmth in her eyes matching the gesture.

Your smile mirrored hers, a chuckle escaping your lips. Her gaze lingered on you, curiosity sparking in her eyes. "You know, as Mayor, it's my job to know everyone in this town."

You shrugged, a small smile playing on your lips. "I'm just a passerby. My car broke down just outside town. Granny's has been most hospitable." you reach your hand out toward her “I’m y/n.”

"Regina," she offered you a warm smile though her smile falters a bit "Welcome to Storybrooke. I should get going." With that, she made her way towards the door.

"Goodnight, Madam Mayor," you called after her, watching as she opened the door and stepped out into the night.

You stood there for a moment, the memory of her lingering presence still fresh in your mind, before finally making your way to the diner counter to inquire about a room for the night. The thought of seeing Regina again brought a flutter of anticipation to your heart, wondering what new encounters and connections awaited you in the charming town of Storybrooke.

The warmth of the diner and the kindness of the people in Storybrooke start to melt away the coldness you felt from the rain. You find yourself wondering about this mysterious town and the people in it. As you settle in for the night, the sound of the rain outside lulls you to sleep, your dreams starting with the images of the mayor, a soft smile appearing on your lips.

[got-into-worm-by-mistake]

Interlude 15.x Live Reactions

(This is going to be a very - no, insanely - long post)

As I noted, after this I'll be trying (ha!) to read faster, and on my phone more so I can just get this done.

This is gonna be an interesting read. Purportedly, after all, this is where we're supposed to get the idea that Amy raped Vicky. Though supposedly Wildbow had to do a line by line analysis to make that point on reddit (which I have not read) and I feel like if you have to do that for something like rape, you've kind of failed your task as a writer, at least in terms of conveying what you meant.

I wish, even more than usual, I could be coming into this fully blind but I'm not. I know the 'official' interpretation of this scene is rape, and that the text of the sequel makes it canonical that Amy raped Vicky here, but I also know large numbers of people never got that take, and Wildbow somehow spent years not noticing massive swaths of his readership didn't realize rape had happened... supposedly.

We'll see if I come away convinced that rape is the best reading that can be constructed from this scene, though from what I gather, it's more that a rape reading in this scene feels wildly out of place with all of Amy's other stuff.

It's certainly hard to reconcile the Amy we just saw in Arc 14 with Raping Vicky, though 14.10 makes it not impossible.

Of course, since I'm not coming in blind - I'm aware of the official version, and I've seen some people make the arguments in support of that reading and I've seen a bunch of arguments against that reading, etc - it's not like that all won't be hanging over all of this.

And the thing is, on a certain level, it doesn't actually matter. In the context of the universe itself, it certainly matters, but from the perspective of all these characters not actually existing in the real world, it doesn't really much matter to me.

On the level of Amy's actions: What she does do to Vicky that everyone agreed on (changing her brain, then mind controlling her in 14.6 and 14.10, not immediately removing the 'love me' change from Vicky's brain, wretching her - intentionally or accidentally or a mix or w/e - and not fixing her brain at any point there, and so on) is a gross and horrifying betrayal and a deep, deep violation of Vicky's mental and bodily autonomy. Making actual, real rape a thing that happened here as well is just icing on a cake, really, in a lot of ways, in the context of Worm. (Ward can and will be safely ignored for the rest of this post - in just a moment anyway)

For another, while it appears a lot of readers and fans did turn on Amy - her popularity in the fandom and in fics and stuff purportedly took a bit of a nosedive after the rape was made clear in Ward and in Wildbow's various WoG, though apparently there were still people who read Ward and missed that rape was made clear (Maybe use the word? Apparently Wildbow doesn't even use that word in Ward), it wouldn't actually change much for me.

(Now ignoring Ward)

See, some of my favorite fictional characters have comitted rape.

Damon Salvatore? Mass murderer and... though the narrative doesn't really linger on it, he rapes Caroline Forbes in early Season 1, and his girlfriend that he gets at the end of S2 (I think) and is dating in early S3 is a relationship so full of Compulsion (mind control ability vampires have in TVD verse) that it's moved well past dubcon, I'd say. And there's probably other shit like that in the man's past. Again, the narrative doesn't linger, but it's fucking rape. Still love Damon, amazing character, my trash son, but yeah, committed rape. Absolute monster, by any reasonable standard.

Regina Mills - again, mass murderer, tyrant, and... at the very least, she raped the Huntsman for possibly up to 38 years. (Again, it's never clearly stated, but she ripped out his heart - which in OUAT verse is a thing dark magic allows that lets the holder of the hard dictate commands to the person and also just kill them if they crush it - and then commanded her guards to bring him to her chambers. Ten years later, she casts the dark curse, and the Huntsman's cursed persona is having sex with her about once a week, at least, for the next 28 years, though given the nature of the curse, only Regina and later her son Henry are aware of the passage of time.) Regina is my favorite OUAT character, has an amazing redemption arc, and is unquestionably a hero to the point where she's crowned the 'Good Queen' in the series finale by Snow White (i.e. the girl she became evil while chasing revenge on). The narrative doesn't really linger on it, I'm not even sure the writers quite realized that it was rape, but I never believed it anything else. Still love her, because she and the Huntsman are both entirely fictional. Not real people.

On BtVS, Faith attempts to rape Xander, and basically does rape Riley while in Buffy's body (Riley is Buffy's boyfriend and thinks it's Buffy he's having sex with. Also she also effectively rapes Buffy by having sex with Riley while in control of her body). I still love her, one of my favorite characters. Again, the narrative doesn't really linger on this (the show in general has a bad habit of not lingering on female-on-male sexual violence or sexual harrassment).

Also on BtVS, Willow wipes her girlfriend's (Tara) memory so she forgets a pretty serious argument they were having, and then they have sex the next day, which Tara would probably not have had if she was still angry with Willow. While the show never calls it rape, I and large parts of the fandom consider it as such. (Tara never calls it rape either, though she is incredibly furious with Willow when she finds out, and they break up - and then get back together 12 episodes later, buuut :shrug) Still big fan of Willow, Tara/Willow is still the biggest ship for willow and one of the largest ships in the fandom.

Now, it's true that in all four cases, the writers either didn't realize it was rape, or didn't care and never really address it, but the key point is that I am perfectly capable of being a huge fan of Amy and wanting to see her redeemed/get better/etc (which I am and do) and accepting that she committed rape. So it's not like I'm going to just insistently refuse to see rape

Now, apparently part of the argument against the 'rape happened' reading is also how 15.x fits into the rest of the work, both before, and after, with regards to the fact that (apparently) Amy doesn't really talk about Vicky with any sort of sexual element, just a worshipful adoration, etc, (and the fact that rape never comes up and so forth) which I won't know until I get that far. But again, it is worth noting that large numbers of people didn't get rape as the intended reading, which again, seems like a pretty big detail to fail to convey to the reader. It's worth nothing that the comments for 15.x on the actual worm website mention 'mindrape' and that it felt 'rapey' but not 'rape' full on.

Now, with a much larger preface than intended, let's actually read this godforesaken Interlude.

Actually, having done the live reaction below, I'm gonna put it all below a readmore

Some of that was fatigue, some of it was hunger, some was thirst.  She had no idea how much time had passed.  She might have been able to guess from her period, but her body had decided such would be a waste of precious resources.  It hadn’t come, and she had no idea how many weeks or months it had been.

You only keep a Kidnap victim for weeks or months if you think there's a chance of a ransom. The fact that Carol's parents refused to just fucking pay the goddamn ransom for that long says a lot about how shit they were. Carol absolutely sucks as a mother, but she did have a pretty shitty starting point (though, somehow, somehow, Sarah managed to be at least halfway decent, so Carol could have come out better, but now I'm trying to compare traumas here and that's pretty sucky, but remember this is a Carol Dallon Hate Blog)

“Amy has always insisted she couldn’t heal brain injuries.” Alan winced.  “I see.  The worst sort of luck.” Carol smiled, but it wasn’t a happy expression.  “So imagine my surprise when, after weeks of taking care of my husband, wiping food from his face, giving him baths, supporting him as he walked from the bedroom to the bathroom, Amy decides she’ll heal him after all.”

Love how she just glosses over the part where Bonesaw actively did even more, possibly eventually fatal, damage to Mark's brain. Even when she does Mention Bonesaw invading the house below, she doesn't mention that part.

I feel like Mark would be able to mention that, so I'm sure Carol is just conviently ignoring the part where Amy was faced with 'Mark fucking dies if I don't break my rule'

“Oh, I imagine she was.  Victoria went looking for her after she ran away, returned home empty-handed.  I think she was even more upset than I was, with Amy taking so long to heal Mark.  She was almost inarticulate, she was so angry.”

So that would suggest that at least at first Vicky doesn't tell Carol what Amy did to her. Which would fit with Vicky saying she hadn't told anyone back in the early parts of Arc 14 (don't remember which chapter she said it) but the context could have just meant 'didn't tell the Protectorate/PRT' Though, it does still leave the open question: Amy was running around the city for fucking DAYS, a week possibly? between Interlude 11h and when she shows up in Arc 14.2 or 14.3. Did Carol even look for her? Why isn't she looking fucking now? She's your daughter, right, and Slaughterhouse Nine is looking for her too?

Is Sarah looking? Mark? Crystal?

Even if you don't love her or care about her, you shouldn't want S9 to have ahold of her, so maybe look for her rather than FUCKING FILE PAPERWORK?!

Carol fidgeted.  “Oh, that wasn’t even the worst of it.  Victoria’s been flirting with the notion of joining the Wards, and she went out to fight the Nine just a few days ago.  Apparently she was critically injured.  She was carried off for medical care and nobody’s seen her since.”

Ah, so this is now happening post-S9 leaving the city (though there's still no mention of Carol looking for her) and she's... not even looking for Vicky?

Like, okay, big city, might not be able to find her, but I feel like if I had a kid that I purportedly loved (as Carol does supposedly at least love Vicky, in her own horrible abusive sort of way) and said kid was missing and I had superpowers making it safe to go looking, I would be looking, damn the goddamn paperwork.

This woman just can't actively not suck.

Also, of all the people to be talking about this to, why the fuck is it Alan Barnes. Just a weird character to use for this. Is it supposed to be a juxtaposition - Carol was a neglectful bitch and Alan a too supportive parent and both ended up screwing their kids up?

“Or dead,” Carol said.  She blinked a few times in rapid succession, fighting the need to cry.  “I don’t know.  I was patrolling, searching, and I felt my composure start to slip.  I feel like shit for doing it, but I came here, I thought maybe if I took fifteen minutes or half an hour to center myself, I could be ready to start searching again.”

Okay, so there's that, so she was looking and just (understandably) needed a moment, but again - did you look for Amy at all earlier? Did fucking anyone? Somehow no member of New Wave actually showed up anywhere during Arcs 12 or 13 or 14, apart from Amy and Vicky.

He’d tried to attack them?  Carol couldn’t understand it.  He was the one who’d taken care of them.  When he’d appeared, she’d been happy.  And now it felt like that had been ruined, spoiled. She felt betrayed and she couldn’t understand why.

Stockholm Syndrome is a hell of a drug. But trigger trauma isn't much of an excuse, Carol, really fucking isn't.

“We didn’t know where you were.  But let’s not fight again.  The important thing is that Tattletale pointed us in the right direction.  We think we know where your daughters are.” Daughters?  Plural? Carol couldn’t put a name to the feeling that had just sucker-punched her.

Right, because with what little you know about the situation, you shouldn't actually have much reason to be that worried.

Technically, you're right this time, which I really kind of hate on the 'Carol Sucks' level of my personality, but you have no valid basis, because your paranoia was not actually well-founded.

The Brockton Bay Brigade closed in on the man who stood by his leather armchair, wearing a black silk bathrobe.  He held his ground. “If you’ll allow me to finish my wine-” he started, bending down to reach for the wine glass that sat beside the armchair.

Marquis really is the textbook fucking definition of classy, isn't he? :rofl:

 It meant she didn’t fall on her rear end, and she could pick a more appropriate posture as she snapped back into her human shape.

I mean, falling on your ass in a fight is just bad from a tactical standpoint, but also, I mean, you can't go losing style points, right?

The needles retracted.  Marquis rolled his shoulders, as if loosening his muscles.  “Broke your foot?  How clumsy.”

If nothing else, he's fun.

Well, only in a sense.  They still hadn’t touched him, and two of their members were out of commission.  Three, if she counted Fleur being occupied with a wounded Lightstar in her arms.

And so let's use his child against him! Great move!

Let's invade someone's home without checking to see if there's any innocents around! GREAT PLAN!

Was he distracted?

Maybe ask yourself why.

Though, I will say - Marquis didn't have to play Coy. He quite literally could have just said 'my daughter's in that closet'. They might not have believed him, but it wouldn't have been hard to show them.

I'm not saying I don't get why he didn't, but technically Marquis didn't make the most optimal choice here.

But that... happens.

“Careful now,” Marquis chided her.  “Don’t want to get decapitated now, do we?”

*giggle*

Instead, she turned and charged for the closet, creating a sword out of the crackling energy her power provided, slashing through the plates of bone that had surrounded it, then drawing the blade back to thrust through the wooden door-

I dunno. I know it's Amy - we all know it's Amy, at this point, even people reading Blind - and we're inclined to dislike Carol anyway at this point, again, even people reading Blind, I assume - but this just seems incredibly foolish.

Like, I guess maybe leaping straight to 'there's a kid there' might be a bitch much, and Carol in particular probably would have a hard time imagining Marquis as caring about another person because she's projected her issues with her kidnapper onto him for... reasons, but I mean, he could have a wife (or husband, I suppose) or girlfriend or all manner of things in there you may not want to hurt, and like... I dunno, I'd at least fucking open the closet before swinging in there? Maybe?

Fic idea - Marquis is a little too slow, but instead of killing her (I have read one fic where that happened. Marquis, understandably, kills Carol right after) he like, maims Amelia or something, cuts off her arm, or gives her a major scar or something.

That could be a really interesting story. Especially if Marquis still gets beaten, or Carol gets away and has to look at her daughter after having done that.

(I may hate Carol, but I can't imagine she'd be blithe about having maimed an innocent child, even Marquis kid, in the middle of a fight.)

*ads the fic idea to the list, which won't stop growing*

She stared down at him.  That long hair, it was such a minor thing, but there was something else about him that stirred that distant, dark memory of the lightless room and the failed attempt at ransom.  Her skin crawled, and she felt anger boiling in her gut.

This is so insane and then you take that projection and add a second layer onto Amy and like what the ABSOLUTE FUCK is wrong with you sick little woman?

“What were you so intent on protecting?” Manpower asked.  “This where you stash your illegitimate gains?”

Because Marquis didn't just say he didn't really care if they destroyed his expensive home a few minutes ago. Jesus Christ Manpower really is a dumb brute, isn't he?

“Her mother’s gone, I’m afraid.  The big C.  Amelia and I were introduced shortly after that.  About a year ago, now that I think on it.  I must admit, I’ve enjoyed our time together more than I’ve enjoyed all my crimes combined.  Quite surprising.”

Is that actually a thing anyone does? Or ever did? Is that a Canadian thing? Or a new england slang? 90s Lingo? I feel like no one has ever called Cancer 'The Big C' before.

That feels like something a writer - not necessarily Wildbow - invented and people just ran with even though it wasn't actually a thing people did.

If Marquis had realized how fucking terribly Carol would have raised Amy, I have to imagine he'd have settled for foster care instead. :rofl:

The idea disturbed her.

Why? Maybe get some fucking therapy for that, bitch? Seriously.

WHY THE FUCK DOES THIS DISTURB YOU?!

Maybe ask yourself that question?! But then, I suppose if you were capable of a single iota of self-examination, you would not have been such a shit mother and indeed, shit human.

That cultured act, the civility that was real.  Marquis was fair, he played by the rules.  His rules, but he stuck to them without fail.  It didn’t match her vision of what a criminal should be.  It was jarring, creating a kind of dissonance. That dissonance was redoubled as she looked at the forlorn little girl.  Layers upon layers, distilled in one expression.  Criminal, civilized man, child.

Right, and how dare something not line up with your view of the world? How DARE?! Surely the problem is with the thing, and not you?! SURELY!

“Then you take care of her,” Brandish replied, even as she mentally prayed her sister would refuse.  There was something about the idea of being around Marquis’ child, that uncanny resemblance, having those memories stirred even once in a while, even if it was just at family reunions… it made her feel uneasy.

*shakes head* jesus christ.

I wonder what Amy Pelham's relationship with Aunt Carol would have been like. A lot of 'why doesn't Aunt Carol like me?' I imagine. Which might have led to Sarah berating Carol into getting help sooner, because I can't imagine Sarah wouldn't have loved her daughter Amy as much as Eric and Crystal.

Though who knows. May just be grass is greener.

“You should.  Amelia’s Vicky’s age, I think they would be close.”

*nervous, awkward, darkly ironic laughter*

“I’m sorry to bring it up,” Brandish said. “But it’s relevant.  I decided I could have Vicky because I’d know her from day one.  She’d grow inside me, I’d nurture her from childhood… she’d be safe.”

And you did a bang up job with her! Two thumbs up! /s

“That child deserves better than I can offer.  I know I don’t have it in me to form any kind of bond with another child if there’s no blood relation.” Especially if she’s Marquis’. “She needs you.  You’re her only option.  I can’t, and Fleur and Lightstar aren’t old enough or in the right place in their lives for kids, and if she goes anywhere else, it’ll be disastrous.”

I can't believe I'm saying this, but: Sarah, Sarah, look at me.

Listen to Carol. For once in her life, she's actually right about something.

Look at me Sarah. Listen to your sister.

You could grow to love and trust that little girl, too.”

Truth is, she probably could have, but it would have required Carol getting over herself, and that, as it turns out, was borderline impossible.

I don't believe it would have been completely impossible - people always have a choice - and that's why, at the end of the day, I will never let sympathy for Carol rise beyond the barest of minimums, because she had a responsibility to be better, to get better, not just for Amy, but for Vicky, and she didn't, and so again, This Is A Carol Dallon Hate Blog.

Was the girl in shock?  Carol couldn’t muster any sympathy.  Amy was stopping her from getting to Victoria.  Victoria, who she’d almost believed was dead.

See, this is just...

I mean, I'm glad Carol didn't kill Amy here, but Carol has not even an iota of concern for Amy, and yet, once she sees the state of Victoria and supposedly finds out that Amy raped Victoria, she suddenly has enough sympathy for Amy to not kill her?

I -

Seriously. Absolute bizzaro world shit here, Wildbow.

“So I thought I’d put her in a trance, and make it so she’d forget everything that happened.  Everything that I did, and the things that the Slaughterhouse Nine said, and everything that I said to try to make them go away.  Empty promises and-“

Okay, so like, you can Amy's lying here, but all we have to go on is what she says, you know? If Wildbow wanted us to get the takeway that Amy's lying here, he kind of needs to make that more clear.

Like, far from done, and I am kind of biased against WB at this point, to say the least, but it's just really fucking hard for me to see this girl acting like this if she just raped her sister.

I mean, really, man, if that really was your intent, you did a REALLY bad job of conveying it, and when you fail as a writer you don't fucking take that out on the readers.

(Right, sorry, I said I was ignoring Ward. Back to doing that)

She could never be my daughter because she’d never stopped being his.

She doesn't even remember him, you crazy psycho!

Amy kept talking, her voice strangely monotone after her earlier emotion, as if she were a recording.  Maybe she was, after a fashion, all of the excuses and arguments she’d planned spilling from her mouth.  “I wanted her to be happy.  I could adjust.  Tweak, expand, change things to serve more than one purpose.  I had the extra material from the cocoon.  When I was done, I started undoing everything, all the mental and physical changes.  I got so tired, and so scared, so lonely, so I thought we’d take another break, before I was completely finished.  I changed more things.  More stuff I had to fix.  And days passed.  I-“

I'm having trouble seeing it. I really am.

I get that we're supposed to see 'break' as like... Amy raping her or something but -

But that -

no.

 It might even have been something objectively beautiful, had it not been warped by desperation and loneliness and panic.

Everything about this scene just paints Amy as pathetic and pitiable. She really is a sopping wet poor little meow meow here.

I'm not saying a rapist can't also be pitiable - someone can be victim and victimizer, of course they can - but if you want the pitiable character to be seen as a rapist, or, you know, hated, for what they did -

Especially when it's from fucking Carol's POV, and Wildbow just got done explaining how little regard Carol actually has for Amy, how she has no sympathy for the girl and everything.

If there's any POV that should not be painting Amy as pitiable, but as the rapist we're supposed to believe she is, it's Carol's right?

Then I’d go and spend the rest of my life healing people.  Sacrifice my life.  I don’t know.  As payment.”

Wildbow makes the most woobifiable character in the world, and then gets self-righteous when people woobify her.

News at 11.

And with everything laid bare, there was not a single resemblance to Marquis.  There was no faint reminder of Brandish’s time in the dark cell, nor of her captor.  If anything, Amy looked how Sarah had, as they’d stumbled from the house where they’d been kept, lost, helpless and scared. She looked like Carol had, all those years ago. The weapon dissipated, and Brandish’s arms dropped limp to her sides.

All this does is make Carol look narcissistic in the weirdest and worst way. She can only give a shit about someone who reminds her of... her?

But I mean, the whole reason she supposedly loved Vicky is because Vicky came from her, so she should have that take priority over...

I'm sorry. I'm just not seeing it. I'm not -

And Carol's actions here, even with the 'she looked like carol had' just...

No. This is weird. This is confusing. This is nonsensical. And I'm sure as shit not getting a 'Amy Raped Vicky' takeaway here.

Even allowing for Jack's comment about 'indulging' in 14.10. When Amy didn't agree or anything, and Jack would have no way to know what Amy did or didn't do when he wrote that letter we see in 14.11.

Like, if I squint and force myself to twist my brain into nots I can... pretend I can see it... but even then...

I mean, maybe Amy's lying, and characters lie and misrepresent and so on, true, but unless the text gives us a good reason to believe they are, which it hasn't yet...

I mean, it's the official version, the official narrative, that it's Rape. That's the WoG. And like...

Even if I didn't have my, admittedly largely unfounded, suspicions that Wildbow is just flat out lying about his original intent or meaning, I do believe that WoG should be an enhancement to and addition to the text, not a direct contradiction.

It really does seem like WB ended up falling into the trap of figuring he could just let his WoG paper over mistakes in his writing rather than getting it right the first time?

Carol stared as Amy shuffled forward.  The cuffs weren’t necessary, really.  A formality.  Amy wasn’t about to run.

I mean, this is another thing I don't get. Amy haters harp on Amy 'running away from responsibility/consequences' but I mean... quietly going to the Birdcage, an unaccountable black box of a prison where (IIRC from what I've heard) 2/3s of the prisoners ended up dying by the time of the breakout is sort of the opposite of running away?

I mean, Amy should have fixed Vicky before going, this is true, but it seems clear she wasn't sure she could, and would Carol and Sarah have even let her?

As if she could convey everything she wanted to say in a single gesture, she folded her daughter into the tightest of hugs.

I -

I mean, I suppose stranger things have happened, but of all the times to actually suddenly start giving a shit about Amy, it's here and now?

Yeah, I can't reconcile this with Wildbow's official narrative of things.

“Victoria is gone.  There’s nothing of her left but that mockery. 

Yeah, okay, back to Carol just sucking 100%. That's more familiar ground.

The day I cease seeing her as his daughter and see how she could be mine, he takes her back, she thought.

Well, no one to blame but yourself, Carol.

Yeah, my official verdict is: if this is supposed to be the scene that convinces the reader Amy raped Victoria, then...

Yeah, I'm not seeing it. I'm not seeing anything that makes that implied even with a tortured reading. Even with the most hostile reading, I don't -

I don't see it. I really don't. I'm trying to have as open a mind as possible, I tried to look for it -

This isn't me questioning a victim in the 'was it really rape' way or whatever, I'm questioning whether the writing of a scene conveys the idea that one character committed the physical/sexual act of rape on another, and this scene does not. Maybe there's another scene later on (In Worm) that will convince me, but...

This one sure doesn't.

[secretlytherealsonicthehedgehog]

so this is me basically yapping about my queen’s complexity😊 regina mills they could never make me hate you

ANYWAYS. one thing i absolutely ADORE about her complexity is her voice. lana parrilla’s voice consistently changes depending on her scenes and i think it is done absolutely BEAUTIFULLY.

when she’s with cora, her voice is sensitive and quiet, as if she’s afraid to get yelled at but still looking for approval and validation.

with henry, her voice is firm but still caring. it’s her SON, after all.

with daniel, it’s free and joyful and you can just tell the difference when she speaks to him vs to anyone who’s not her family.

her voice is so powerful in so many other ways. it shows weakness, strength, fear, love, and it’s all portrayed and executed in a way that’s purely majestic.

next thing is the parallels.

regina’s greed is eventually fully explained, she loses everything, but something i’ve noticed is that everything she loses is everything she’s never actually had.

her mother’s approval, daniel, henry, hell even graham. something archie says in s2 is that everything she loses is because of magic. i think that’s true and they should’ve extended that theory further throughout the show.

her mother never truly loved her — only taking advantage of her daughter’s weakness, her need for love.

i’m not sure if this is stated, but i’ve always interpreted this way. i don’t believe she and daniel were together very long. yes, long enough to fall in love, but in ouat, that normally seemed to happen rather quickly. anyways, regina was this close to marrying daniel until cora killed him. she never truly had him in the way she wanted — and we all know nothing happened in the way she wanted.

with henry, she, again, never really had him. he was never her son, not in the way she needed him to be. he was always emma’s son, even if it felt like he was hers. yes, henry loves her, he cares about her, but at the end of the day, his determination to stick with emma in the earlier seasons always seems to overcome that.

the last one is obvious but graham could not feel anything. meaning, whatever regina felt for him, whether it was love, lust, or nostalgia, was not real. which, equals in false hope, false love, all that. (i say nostalgia because in my mind, regina sees daniel in all her past/current lovers.)

so, in conclusion to this little yapping session, regina goes several seasons with absolutely nothing. it hurts to say it, but that’s just the way her life was portrayed. now, i’m leading up to how her greed is involved in this, along with her almost drug-like addiction to magic.

she consistently goes after things she cannot have. an example of this is her attachment to children. in season two (?), regina takes away her fertility with magic to piss her mother off. this soon comes to bite her in the ass and leads to her adoption journey with henry.

maybe three times she tried to take someone’s children as her own. yes it sounds bad but there’s an explanation for that. since she can’t have children, regina’s greed for one only grows stronger. the first time she did this was with owen, a little boy who managed to get inside storybrook with his father — whom she framed for drunk driving and i believe child neglect (correct me if i’m wrong) when owen refused to live with her and abandon his father.

another time was with ava and nicolas, at the time known as hansel and gretel. after retrieving the iconic apple from the blind witch, hansel and gretel come back to regina’s castle and as a “reward,” she tries to invite them to live with her. she basically tried to bribe them, but their love for their father was so strong, so out of spite she uses magic to separate the twins from their father.

and lastly, throughout season one, she attempts to kill or frame emma several times. this is because of her attachment to henry — which this time is somewhat explainable. for once, she finally has the child she deprived herself of and all of a sudden, after years of trying to fully connect with her son, she loses him. as she did several times before. hence why i said henry was never truly her child.

ANYWAYS.😊 regina mills you are a being of majestic and conflicting things that make you the woman you are and i absolutely LOVE IT.

[reality-shifting]

i’m in the mood to talk about my ouat dr- first of all i need to mention, i have several ouat dr’s and i don’t really have specific names for any of them yet so idk how i’m tagging this lol

anyway

in that dr, i my name is melody mills and i’m regina’s adopted daughter and henry’s adoptive sister :) i’m not related to any of the “characters” by blood because the family tree is messy enough. henry and i are both 17 because i don’t want be to be older than him and i don’t want to be a kid again lol

that dr for the most part follows the plot of the first two seasons, but the part where regina start working with cora is different because i’m there and i’m trying to get regina to stop doing that- and while idk if she’ll listen, she’ll definitely act a bit differently. also during that part of the plot in season two when david took henry to live with him instead of with regina, there’s conflict because david wants to take me along too because he finds regina too dangerous, but i don’t want to go along with him and it’s a whole situation.

then when the neverland’s plot starts it’s when it gets really divergent from the show’s plot, because pan is my s/o (i scripted us to be soulmates/to have True Love. and i also scripted btw as a sidenote that pan is not related to rumple) and basically when i go along with the heroes to save henry, he meets me and realises that i’m his soulmate like in another prophecy and we then solve the Heart of the Truest Believer with a simple True Love’s Kiss. BUT the heroes still want to punish pan foe kidnapping henry and stuff so everyone is taken back to storybrooke, where i’m trying to keep the peace but pan at this point is still a villain, so he still tries to cast his curse (just without killing felix because i scripted that he won’t need a sacrifice for his curse because he’s so powerful now). and then like in the show, regina destroys the original curse to stop pan’s curse except pan doesn’t die

so then it follows the show’s plot again a little, because henry and emma and me won’t be transported back to the enchanted forest, so regina asks emma to take care of me too and gives us all fake memories of us 3 being a family and we leave and all yeah. pan feels conflicted now and doesn’t want to leave me, but well he has to- he promises tho that he’ll find me and that we’ll be together again <3 and he apologizes for trying to cast the curse and stuff

then in the forgotten year, i’ve scripted that zelena just steals the dagger, so the whole neal dying and getting absorbed plot doesn’t happen bc i don’t want neal to die and rumple also never died bc pan didn’t die.

and meanwhile, emma, henry and me are in new york and we’re doing pretty good over all until ofc hook shows up and asks for emma’s help. this part also follows the shows plot fairly exactly until we arrive in storybrooke, because while regina and emma are trying to get everyone’s memories from the enchanted forest back, pan is trying to get just my memories back. ofc he wants his own memories back too, but he’s more focused on making me remember him again and stuff- but before i remember him, we still spend time together in storybrooke ofc so that i can fall in love again :D

and basically the rest of the plot also follows the show except with me and pan as a power couple :3 and season 7 is different but i haven’t scripted anything specific about that yet ^^

[victoriously-wicked]

ROBIN HOOD S5 RANT

Would you consider me mentally unstable if I told you that during my first watch of OUAT, I cried for 30 minutes straight after watching Robin Hood get killed?

Y-You would?

*coughs* well then, it’s a good thing I definitely didn’t do that . . . 😳

. . . okay maybe I did, BUT in all fairness, while I was of course crying because Robin was dead, a large part was over the fact that Regina’s happiness was once again stripped away from her, AND FOR WHAT REASON?!

I mean c’mon, she had redeemed herself countless times up until this point, I’d say she’d more than earned it. And honestly, Robin made her SO much better, he was one of the best things that ever happened to her and yet, look at how his story ended.

He did not deserve this at all.

Seriously, who was Robin’s living affecting? nobody.

Hell, the reason he died was because he threw himself infront of Regina, saving her from dying at Hades’ hand. And you’re telling me that’s NOT someone who deserves to be revived from the underworld?!

(yes I know Hades said the crystal that killed Robin blinked him from existence, but for some reason a part of me thinks Hades was bluffing, just to screw with Regina even more. There has to be some world where Robin’s soul is currently at. And in my mind, Robin’s at peace in this other world and watching over the Swan-Mills-Charming-Stilskin Squad and their adventures while also just waiting for the day that Regina, Henry, Roland, Nobin and the others will eventually join him.)

What makes his death a hundred times worse is that, like Regina said to Emma, it’s not fair that Hook got to come back from the dead, but Robin didn’t.

Look at it this way, before their redemptions, Hook was a pirate that would sail the seas, pillaging and killing hundreds of people with zero remorse, but Robin? He was just a common pickpocket. Not trying to hate on Killian because he did end up redeeming himself after coming to Storybrooke, but looking at it from the angle of Robin and Hook's wrongdoings, Killian seems to deserve a fate of death more than Robin. I feel like if anything, Robin has probably only killed one or two people ever, and it was most likely in self defence or something.

Oh, and another thing- Hook mentions that he was revived as a reward for helping defeat Hades. Uhhhh . . .

. . . WHAT THE HELL WAS ROBIN DOING WITH THE GROUP IN THE UNDERWORLD THEN? WHAT, HE JUST TAGGED ALONG FOR THE FUN OF IT? NO, HE HELPED THE SQUAD DEFEAT HADES.

And he helped just as much as Hook did, even more so, in my opinion. If Robin hadn’t sacrificed himself, Regina wouldn’t have had the time to knock the crystal away from Hades. And if Regina hadn't knocked it away from Hades then Zelena wouldn’t have been able to grab it and use it to kill him. Hook, he got the missing book pages to Emma, who was outside the building when Zelena killed Hades. Even if the pages hadn’t reached Emma, Robin and Regina would’ve still been in the office with Hades and the crystal. But, I’ll give Killian credit; if he hadn’t gotten the pages to Emma, she wouldn’t have tried breaking the protection spell on the building, and then Robin and Regina probably wouldn’t have had a diversion to sneak in the office.

Just another little note, I HATE how they gloss over the funeral and his death in general. I don’t feel as though everybody’s reaction to it were really touched upon in the following episodes.

All in all, I’m just so upset at how badly they screwed up this epic couple and storyline. Robin didn’t deserve to die. Regina didn’t deserve to watch another True Love die in her arms.

They both deserved better.

Sorry for the rant, I’m just REALLY passionate about this topic

[c0dmic]

REGINA MILLS ANALYSIS

I may get things wrong, so I'm putting information I know of or believe in the most. I still may get it wrong, so correct me. I'm going to talk about Regina's problematic actions, relationships she was in, and a bit of widely talked about topics. Also, most of the posts about her are outdated and later proven to be wrong. So I had to put points that are now and have been canon since the show ended.

CONTAINS: Opinions

-

Regina Mill's personality goes easier throughout the show. From being manipulative to caring but still having that s1 spark. She expresses her caring to her old enemies, aka, The Charmings.

From the flashbacks, we see Regina adopt a child named Henry. She went from having almost full vengeance and revenge still pent up in her heart to having a mix of both love and darkness due to Henry.

-

Yes, Regina was rude to her citizens of Storybrooke. But most of what she did (in later seasons) was use sarcasm. Let's jump into her actions.

Problematic Actions:

- R4pe (Graham Specifically) for 28 years

- Manipulate Henry for years ( calling his 'theory' of fairytales fake)

- Violence (to Villages and People)

---

Let get into the r4pe part first. Of course, even as someone like a Regina stan should not excuse this behavior. Me, aka a person who likes her but doesn't excuse and will NEVER excuse her problematic actions, especially this one in particular.

Regina had raped Graham for around 28 years. 

One sentence that implies it, even for a little bit, is in the episode where Graham (huntsman at the time) meets Regina for the first time. She says

"Take him to my bedchamber,"

I know it's short. But why else would someone say that. Just think about that.

And also the fact that Regina most definitely (for the curse) made Graham engage with her romantically and sexually. Even though it was obvious that he didn't like her that way in the Enchanted forest or most likely ever. Not to mention she had his heart, and in ouat logic hearts are used to control people, so when doing stuff with Regina both romantically and sexually, he was forced to because Regina gave him orders.

- 

Now we go to Manipulating Henry.

For ten whole years, Henry has lived and grew up with Regina. He loved his mother (even though she's not his bio mom). Until Henry got the book, and Emma had revealed that Henry had a book and kept on saying everyone in town are fairytale characters that are cursed (which ofc is true). Regina, unknowing of her sons correct theory /speculation/ belief, was visibly shocked. And when she found out that Snow (Mary) had given the book to him, she didn't want that at all. And even set up Emma into saying that Henry was 

'crazy' when Henry was nearby. So that she can attempt to stop him from thinking of his speculation and them bonding.

All of this was to make sure Henry couldn't connect and hate his birth mother so that she could have him as his own. And also because Henry was right, and she didn't want her son of ten years to hate her for her sins.

--

Explaining the cause of her actions. NOT JUSTIFING HER PROBLEMATIC ACTIONS, IM JUST EXPLAINING WHY SHE DID THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Justify means to show or prove to be right or reasonable.

While to explain means to be the cause of or motivating factor for an action.

I know explain has many definitions or ways to explain what it means and one means to justify. While mine means to simply explain the cause or motivation towards the action.

-

There's no doubt Cora was abusive to Regina. And before you start, there's different types of abuse. The abuse Cora does to Regina is Mental and Emotional. Maybe physical but still very debatable and unclear.

For emotional, Cora visibly and directly shows that Cora wants to control Regina. She wanted Regina to do something Regina didn't want just so Cora could have what SHE wanted. And Emotional abuse means to, "target a person's feelings, it uses emotions to manipulate, punish, and achieve control." That heavily reminds me of Cora killing Daniel to gain more control of Regina. And if you didn't already know.

And there's scenes where Cora would grab Regina forcefully with vines to STOP Regina from moving or walking away from her. Cora said in one of the scenes, "Don't you dare walk away from me!" Then proceed to grab Regina using vines from her Magic. Also, her father, Henry, said to Regina that Cora wanted control over her and if Regina continues with her evil actions, her mother had achieved to controlled her. Because, everything Cora did to Regina was calculated. Daniel's Death, The marriage, the abuse, and it was all to get Reina to become evil. In s2 i think, (the Angstiest Regina Season), Regina goes to Archie upset and with TEARS in her eyes because, she used magic, because she used magic. And she Didn't want to use magic against Henry like her mother. After she did so, she was upset because she broke her own promise to not use magic against Henry. Also because it reminded her of what her mother did to her, and she did want to pass it down for Henry.

Also Cora in s2, came Storybrooke (her daughters town) not only to reunite with Regina but to BREAK HER... like wtf. And Regina is Already upset because Henry is growing distant to her. But Cora, literally

frames her own daughter for murder. While the whole fucking town is already against her.

For Mental, theres an episode where Cora forms Regina's thoughts by saying, "Sometimes I wonder if the people actually like you". And Cora seems to have an influence in Regina's world view, of Wolf and Sheep. Regina States in the episode where she meets the huntsman (Graham). 

(Got the episode part from a Tumblr poster from ouatanalysis) aka:

-

Now back to what I was saying about Cora. Cora had forced Regina into marriage. BUT as you could tell as time went on Regina had decided to use her relationship with Leopold to gain control, because that's what her mother said, about something along the lines of, "power is useful" before she sent her mother through the mirror.

And her mother sent her to a marriage with a broken old ass man who was still grieving his wife. Which lead to the neglect from Leopold to Regina. It was stated by Regina herself that Leopold would often leave Regina by herself at the castle that at points she felt like the 'Queen of Nothing'.

And for me i feel like Regina (forgive me for wording this part wrong) was considered her as a mourning tool. Like, "Oh my wife died 8 years ago, lets get another one to help with and to deal with me". Yes he may have also gotten Regina because she seemed like a good mother figure fit for Snow, but still, most likely half the woman population of Leopolds age from Leopolds kingdom would save Snow from the horse in a heartbeat if they were there and they would show genuine feelings for Leopold. However, he chooses, a woman who's 18 and lives away.

--

Not only Cora and Leopold influenced Regina's bad perspective and actions, Rumple also did too.

Rumple saw Regina as a person wanting power and wanting to stand out and not seem as weak and took the opportunity as the dark one to turn Regina evil.

Regina at first was hesitant to say that she liked using magic due to her not wanting to be like her mother and also due to her mother's actions with her, with magic.

But time happens and Regina uses more and more of magic for evil and frightens villages and kills Villagers who helped Snow in the slightest bit.

I still stan her because she changed, she's reformed and she would never do that stuff again (r4pe, use magic against Henry or manipulate him, or m4ss murd3r).

ANYWAYS, this was heavily controversial. But if your going to criticize/correct parts, be respectful and mature about it instead of wanting to start a riot. Saying "Fuck you", "Go die in a hole", "Kys", "I hope your house burns down". And be respectful, if you want to critigue/correct me at certain parts, by all means, go ahead, but tell me what parts I went wrong instead of telling me to kms.

NOTE: This is from May 2023, but I just remembered this now. And parts didn't make sense so I changed it up to make it better.

[wily-one24]

It was intresting to read your opinions about ouat, soo can u maybe do Regina Mills also? 🫶🏻 (+ I gotta say that I agree what you said about hook)

I am glad you asked, Nonny, because I felt sliughtly guilty. I answered the "choose between Emma and Regina" ask and chose Emma, BEFORE I answered the "choose from these three SVU" characters and in that one I did all three.

I was like "Man, I should have done Regina as well". So, Nonny,. great minds think alike. :D

REGINA MILLS:

Before we start, I had to use this gif, because for over a decade it was my AO3 profile pic "Bitch Fucked With My Apples", until I changed it to Sheryl Crow to match my tumblr pic.

Onto the questions!

--> How I feel about this character:

I do so love Regina. Not as much as Emma, and I am not attracted to Regina the way I am Emma, but I love her just the same.

Her entire story is one of tragedy. All she wanted was to be good, to be left alone with her horse and her stable boy and maybe an apple tree.

And she was used and abused by everyone around her for their own nefarious purposes. Her mother abused her from childhood and then sold her as a young teenager to an uncaring king. Who, let's be real Disney, was not just "looking for a mother for Snow". He wanted a young wife to bed. And she was NOT WILLING.

Rumple came along and twisted her helplessness into vengeance.

And the world called her Evil.

And even then, exactly how evil was she. Okay, sure, if you're Snow White (or one of her friends), she was pretty lethal, and she did slaughter an entire village for hiding Snow. But apart from Snow, she was pretty non chalant. She wanted to be loved as a ruler.

Yes, she did EVIL things, but she was a pawn and she didn't choose that title, nor that life.

The curse? The big Curse to End All Curses?

She bought them to Maine and gave them safety, steady jobs, no inflation at all 80s prices forever more, running water, electricity, medicine, instant college educations.

And all those ungrateful bitches wanted to do was return to shitting in the forest and hunting their dinner amidst dying of dystentery and a random arrow.

Like, come on. If you really want to be evil, don't make Snow a goddamn grade school teacher who builds bird houses. OH LOOK,, there's Mary Margaret the garbage collector. Mary Margaret, the local stripper. The homeless drug addict. Locked up in a nuthouse. A maid. Anything, but a sweet, comfortable, happy, well fed teacher who still smiles and sings.

I said it in the other post, I'll say it here. Emma internalised her pain and sabotaged herself. Regina externalised it and hurt those around her. But it all stems from that lost, lonely little girl that was abused and had all her hopes dashed, that was never loved the way they deserved.

I do love Regina and that is all (Ha!) I am saying until further down.

--> All the people I ship romantically with this character:

(I love how this is worded: 1. "romantically", like... definitely not just "fuck nasty" buddies, but romance. 2. "People" with a "Character", ... can I name just any random person? Like, let's get Regina Mills together with Susan Sarandon. Let's go!)

Ahem.

Emma Swan, obviously. You can't really ask for more. They were perfect for each other. There are so many parallels in their stories, and they helped each other grow. They cared sincerely for each other. This is a no brainer.

But also... let's not rule out all the other ladies, Snow, Ruby, Belle. Maybe a little Jefferson. Daniel (for the hopeless teen romantic Regina). David for a little bit.

Imaginary Regina is quite the machine.

--> My non-romantic OTP for this character:

Is Henry too obvious? Come on.

Snow eventually. Zelena eventually, Kathryn to begin with (you know, before she had her kidnapped and killed and then unkilled, that kinda takes the bloom off the rose a little).

--> My unpopular opinion of this character:

The Lana stans ruined Regina for me*. I can't enjoy her as much as I would like, because... they're very rabid and they oversaturated the internet and a lot of them became Swan Queen fans, but a very specific sort of Swan Queen fan wherein it was obvious they were just there for Regina and they really hated Emma in an ugly way.

I think Lana is really great, everything I have heard about her is good. That said, i just can't... I can't really enjoy anything in terms of Lana because of her fans. So, I just steer well away.

These people and their zealotry ruined the actress and the character and that's tragic all in its own.

(*I am speaking of a very certain sort of fan, I am sure a lot of Lana fans are great, but we all know who I am speaking of).

Fandom overall became very Regina Centric or Hook Centric, to the exclusion of all else. This bled heavily into the viciousness of Swan Queen Vs Captain Swan... but I stayed out of it and just wrote my little fics and read others.

-->One thing I wish would happen/had happened for this character:

I'm not sure I can answer this question, because I still to this day have not finished watches S7 all the way through. I have watched MAYBE three episodes and then have to stop, I just... cannot get into it. So I don't really *know* what happened to her.

I know she got a very short haircut, wore singlet shirts, and ran a bar. That's what I know. So... I mean, maybe that made her happy? Chase your dreams, I guess.

Obviously "I wish Swan Queen became canon".

Oooh, I know. I wish she had gotten some justice, especially against Rumple.

(but, oh no, Rumple was a MAN and had to have a giant redemption arc and become woobified)

My old AO3 pp for reference:

[taleswritten]

Under the cut is a list of muses I have for those who can’t open the google doc. Note: the google doc has detailed information about them so if you can, please open it up.

Bold is primary, italic is secondary, regular is by request.

TVD/TO/LEGACIES:

ELENA GILBERT

KATHERINE PEIRCE

DAMON SALVATORE

ALARIC SALTZMAN

LIZZIE SALTZMAN

josie saltzman

caroline forbes

bonnie bennett

Klaus Mikaelson

FINAL FANTASY:

CLOUD STRIFE (ff7r)

aeirth (ff7 remake)

tifa (ff7 remake)

Jill Warrick (ff16)

Clive Rosfield (ff16)

snow villiers

THIRTEEN REASON’S WHY:

Justin Foley

Bryce Walker

Jessica Davis

Clay Jenson

911/911 LONE STAR:

ATHENA GRANT

MADDIE BUCKLEY

OWEN STRAND

TK STRAND

GRACE RYDER

AHS:

Brooke Thompson

Montanna Duke

donovan

BBC SHERLOCK:

SHERLOCK HOLMES

BRIDGERTON:

Simon Bassett

Daphne Bridgerton

kate sharma/bridgerton

Penelope Featherington

BTVS/ATS

Buffy Summers

CORDELIA CHASE

CAOS:

SABRINA SPELLMAN

ONE CHICAGO:

natalie manning

JAY HALSTEAD

ADAM RUZEK

KIM BURGESS

Hank Voight

CRIMINAL MINDS:

Spencer Reid

Emily Prentiss

DAREDEVIL:

MATT MURDOCK

DEXTER:

DEXTER MORGAN

DCTV:

SARA LANCE

JOHN CONSTANTINE

SPOONER

EUPHORIA:

JULES VAUGHN

RUE BENNETT

FROM DUSK TIL DAWN:

Seth Gecko

Kate Fuller

GOOD GIRLS:

BETH BOLAND

Greys’ Anatomy:

meredith grey

JO WILSON

CARINA DELUCA

Ameila Shepard

GAME OF THRONES:

DANY

Jon Snow

Sansa Stark

NCB HANNIBAL:

WILL GRAHAM

HAUNTING OF BLY MANNER:

DANI CLAYTON

PETER QUINT

HEMLOCK GROVE

PETER RUMANCEK

HTGAWM:

CONNOR WALSH

LAW AND ORDER SVU:

OLIVIA BENSON

Elliot Stabler

kathleen stabler

alex cabot

casey novak

LOST GIRL:

BO DENNIS

LUCIFER:

CHLOE DECKER

lucifer morningstar

mazikeen

MINDHUNTER:

Holden Ford

POSE:

ANGEL EVANGALISTA

BLANCA EVANGALISTA

PRODIGAL SON:

MALCOLM BRIGHT

RIVERDALE:

ARCHIE ANDREWS

BETTY COOPER

TONI TOPAZ

CHERYL BLOSSOM

FP Jones

JUGHEAD JONES

ROSWELL NEW MEXICO:

MAX EVANS

LIZ ORTECHO

STRANGER THINGS:

NANCY WHEELER

BILLY HARGROVE (BILLY’S TATTOOS POST SEASON THREE HERE )

STATION 19:

Vic Hughes

SUPERNATURAL:

Dean Winchester

THE MAGICIANS:

ELIOT WAUGH

MARGO HANSON

THE WITCHER (GAME, TV SHOW, AND BOOK MIXED MEDIA):

GERALT (please note, geralt has cat-eyes. not the eyes we see in the show. if you need a visual, think game geralt)

CIRI

Yennefer (only willing to write her with @writtenmisfits at this current time)

TRUE BLOOD:

SOOKIE STACKHOUSE

TARA THORTON

jessica hamby

JASON STACKHOUSE

SAM MERLOTTE

WYNONNA EARP:

WYNONNA EARP

WAVERLY EARP

NICOLE HAUGHT

THE UMBRELLA ACADEMY:

KLAUS HARGREEVES

ALLISON HARGREEVES

VAN HELSING:

Vanessa Van Helsing

YOU:

BECK

JOE GOLDBERG

LOVE QUINN

THEO

FORTY QUINN

DCU:

WONDER WOMAN/DIANA PRINCE

HARLEY QUINN (au verse 1 here)

DESCENDANTS:

HARRY HOOK

MAL BERTHA

EVIE GRIMHILDE

MCU:

DEADPOOL/WADE WILSON

EDDIE BROCK/VENOM

STEVE ROGERS/CAPTAIN AMERICA

WANDA MAXIMOFF

BUCKY BARNES

NATASHA ROMANOFF

YELENA BELOVA

THOR

LOKI

MICHAEL MORBIUS

Peter Parker (the amazing spiderman)

POTC:

CAPTAIN JACK SPARROW

ASSASSIN’S CREED SERIES:

JACOB FRYE

EVIE FRYE

EIVOR

KASSANDRA

DETRIOT BECOME HUMAN:

Connor

DRAGON AGE:

MORRIGAN

FENRIS

GARRETT HAWKE

MARIAN HAWKE

LUCANIS

TAASH

CYBERPUNK:

V (both male and v, both streetkid and corpo)

JOHNNY SILVERHAND

JUDY ALVAREZ

LAST OF US:

joel miller

ELLIE

LEGEND OF ZELDA:

LINK

RESIDENT EVIL:

ADA WONG

LEON KENNEDY (previously traumamade)

ETHAN WINTERS

LADY DIMITRESCU

Claire Redfield

dimitrescu daughters

TOMB RAIDER:

LARA CROFT

UNCHARTED:

NATHAN DRAKE

BLEACH:

ichigo kurosaki

GRIMMJOW JAEGERJAQUEZ

VAMPYR:

JOHNATHAN REID

BLACK BUTLER:

SEBASTIAN MICHAELIS

BLUE EXORCIST

RIN OKAMARU

HELLSING:

SERAS VICTORIA

INTEGRA HELLSING

NARUTO:

NARUTO UZUMAKI

TSUNADE

SEVEN DEADLY SINS:

BAN

VAMPIRE KNIGHT:

yuuki cross/kuran

ZERO KIYRUU

OUAT:

Regina Mills

Emma Swan

SOA:

JAX TELLER

VENUS

GEMMA TELLER

WHITE COLLAR:

Neal Caffrey

FAR CRY:

FAITH SEED

NEW AMSTERDAM:

MAX GOODWIN

CRUELLA:

CRUELLA DE VILLE

MASS EFFECT:

JOHN SHEPARD

JANE SHEPARD

KAIDAN

SAMARA

KASUMI

MIRANDA

DOCTOR WHO:

rose tyler

GOSSIP GIRL REBOOT:

ZOYA LOTT

MAX WOLFE

DOOM PATROL:

JANE

LARRY TRAINOR

A WAY OUT:

LEO CARUSO

CASTLE:

RICHARD CASTLE

BITTEN:

ELENA MICHAELS

TEEN WOLF:

CHRIS ARGENT

ALLISON ARGENT

SCOTT MCCALL

LYDIA MARTIN

STILES STILINSKI

THE FLASH:

BARRY ALLEN

NORA WEST ALLEN

BART WEST ALLEN

IRIS WEST

CAITLYN SNOW

KILLER FROST

SUCKERPUNCH

BABY DOLL

SHADOW HUNTERS

ISABELLE

ALEC

HOUSE OF ASHES

JASON

THE MEDIUM

MARIANNE

THE LAST KINGDOM

UHTRED RAGNARSON

Iseult

MOON KNIGHT

STEVEN GRANT/MARC

FIRST KILL

Calliope Burns

Juliette Fairmont.

THE QUARRY

Kaityln Ka

Dylan Lenivy

Laura Kearny

THE SANDMAN

Dream/Morpheus

INTEVIEW WITH THE VAMPIRE

Louis De Pointe

Claudia

HORIZON SERIES

Aloy

THE VAMPIRE ACADEMY (TV SERIES)

Rose Hathaway

NETFLIX’S WEDNESDAY

Wednesday Addams

Morticia Addams

Enid Sincliar

DAYS GONE

Deacon St. John

QUEEN CHARLOTTE - A BRIDGERTON STORY

Queen Charlotte

MAYFAIR WITCHES

Rowan Fielding

Critical Role (currently caught up to episode 97 and both seasons of the animated show)

Vax

Vex

Keylith

THE EVIL WITHIN

Sebastian 

Baldur's Gate 3:

Astarion

Karlach

Orin

Hazbin Hotel:

Angel Dust

Charlie Morningstar

Niffty

Alastor

Outlander:

Claire Fraser

A COURT OF THORNS AND ROSES SERIES:

Feyre (started and currently reading book 3)

HELLUVA BOSS:

Stolas

Loona

Fizz

Moxxie

Millie

[poptart-cat-78]

Favorite ouat character(s) and why?

Oooooh WHY would you ask me this?! UGH okay I guess I’ll list my top 5 OUAT characters

1.) Emma Swan

If you’ve been on my blog AT ALL you know Emma is a comfort character for me. Although personality wise Im nothing like her, I always found myself relating to her and her story, even if Im not an orphan or have had a toxic relationship. The story of an orphan girl who thought she would never be loved, never find her parents, always be abandoned becoming a woman with a family who would do anything for her, a son who brought her to said family and a man who sticks by her side through hell and back (literally) just 🥺🥺🥹🥹. The way she had walls around her to protect herself from being betrayed to opening up, learning to trust and learning it’s okay to be vulnerable. I just love her and her character arc, also she made me love the story of the Ugly Duckling. The things this woman went through, nobody deserves that, I just wanna hug her.

2.) Henry Mills

One of the two characters I’m most alike. As a child I loved fairytales and Disney and it’s why I was so drawn to this show when I first saw the trailer for it. Just like Henry, I want people to be the best versions of themselves but I know that’s not always the case. I believe in magic and have this very optimistic look on life (just like Snow as well). Also you really can’t have Emma without including Henry, they’re a package deal and the two main characters of OUAT. Also why do people find him annoying???

3.) Mary Margaret Blanchard aka Snow White

For similar reasons why I like Henry. I’m more like her than I am actually like Emma XD. I believe love is a powerful emotion, no matter WHAT kind of love it is. Like Henry, she believes in magic, is hopeful and optimistic, traits I also possess (but tbh I might have gotten those traits from watching the show for 6 years)

4.) Killian Jones/ Captain Hook

The first person to read Emma like an open book. The tension these two had in Tallahassee??? HELLO??? He’s an orphan, just like Emma. He was traded into slavery with his younger brother Liam, like WHO DOES THAT TO THEIR CHILD (looks at Brennan). He spent centuries trying to avenge the murder of his first love, Milah and that’s the kind of devotion Emma needed. He became a better man not just to win her over, but for his own sake too. He let Emma lead the entire way through their relationship and respected her boundaries, but stuck by her side through hell and back (yes, I used this term twice)

5.) Robin Hood

One of the two most devastating deaths in the show (the other was Hook but he came back to life so does his death really count?) He just had so much potential and Regina was genuinely happy with him. I like to pretend he attended CSes wedding because Im a 🤡.

Also yes I’m aware that I had deep meaningful reasons for the other characters, Im just salty about Robin Hood’s death okay?

Thanks for the ask @nerdy-girl3791! ✨✨✨

[singwhenyoucantspeak]

my thoughts about agatha all along is that it was very fun, but i do feel like it lacked a certain depth and felt a lot more like a set up for Billy to be in the MCU more than anything else. idk. of course i enjoyed watching every minute of it but theres only so much you can do in 9 episodes. with Wanda Vision, Wanda was already a completely fleshed out character before the show even began so it didnt matter as much that it was a short little story. but Agatha felt really under developed and that does make me sad. I was for real serious when i said that watching Agatha All Along was just making me miss Regina Mills bc as terrible as ouat became, the one thing they did well was fully fleshing out Regina as a character and making her extremely compelling. of course, the fandom has already jumped in and used their own creative efforts along with interview comments to read way more into Agatha than what was actually on the screen, and i do love that about fandom. but yeah, i still feel now at the end of the finale like i didnt actually get what i was waiting for out of it. (of course the elephant in the room is the canon lesbianism which obvs *was* missing from Regina's story but that isnt everything to me anymore)

[writebethany]

❤️🧡🤍🩷💜A WLW ASK MEME❤️🧡🤍🩷💜 List the top 10 ladies you’ve been obsessed with Ever Of All Time! Then send this on to 5 sapphic mutuals 👩‍❤️‍💋‍👩

Mentally listing these off I have a type and I'm not sorry about this in the slightest ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ so in no particular order:

Astra In-Ze. (Supergirl) General badass who wants to do the right thing in the completely wrong way? There was never a universe in which I did not love her. It was inevitable. I watched the first season of supergirl for Cat Grant, and ended up loving Astra more. It's the enemies to lovers of it all. It's the Laura Benanti. It's the being a twin on a world where that was an aberration. It's the ability to take the framework and run to create a whole lot of backstories for fun and profit. *chef's kiss* Really had everything I needed to sink into a character and think about them for all time.

Kommissar (Pitch Perfect 2) Condescending European tall hot lady? By god the movie gave us nothing and yet I kept digging. I literally had to pick out a name to write about her, but I was out here giving her the full random side dude character treatment because she had the trifecta of 'qualities I'm obsessed with.' I followed the actress and watched Danish TV for her. I started learning Danish. That is how obsessed I was with this character. The OT3 fic I wrote with Kommissar/Becca/Pieter is still one of my favorite things I've ever written. It's just so soft while Kommissar doesn't manage to lose the sass or edge. Mmm.

Miranda Priestly (The Devil Wears Prada) It's Miranda Priestly. I'm a millennial sapphic. Need I say more. Never mind that she fits with the overall theme so far of 'mean and pretty (and usually older with a backstory with just a *touch* of softness). I watched the movie as a baby gay who didn't know(tm) yet and zeroed the fuck in on Miranda and then watched it in college and YEP. There we were. Several hundred thousand words of fic later.

Regina Mills. (Once Upon a Time) Mean. ✅ Tragic backstory ✅ Secretly Wants to be good ✅ *GOD* the brain rot I had over Regina Mills. Still love her, but I burned so brightly and that fandom was so. Well. We all know what OUAT was like if you were there Gandalf. She's still such a baby girl, but not *the* baby girl, you understand. She led me to Lana's other works and Swingtown most importantly which also lives in my head rent free, but Regina. Regina will always be that original GOAT from my first *big* foray into fandom and only just got passed with fics from another fandom recently, that's how much I wrote about her.

Narcissa Malfoy. Sometimes when you're a baby gay and the teacher you just realized you have a crush on and finally admit you're gay to yourself writes HP fanfic and writes a version of Narcissa Malfoy that haunts you for fifteen straight years to the point where it becomes your pandemic fic pairing of choice and here you are four years past that with *gestures* yeah. Alas.

H.G. Wells. (Warehouse 13) HOOOOO BOY baby's first fandom. This was another case of me watching the first couple seasons before I knew(tm) but also buying them on DVD because you see I needed them. Mmm complicated villain backstories. I can redeem her, etc, etc. But just the sheer fucking chemistry of HG and Myka and the perfection of HG being this didactic woman who didn't let time define her and then going absolutely ape to avenge her daughter? Yes. Just yes. Love her. Also Jaime Murray. Mhm.

Eve Baird. (The Librarians) Oh Eve. The newest addition to the list. She just wants to protect her people, for all of them to live and be happy. Will forever have a part of my mind rotating her, Jenkins, and Cassandra together like a snowglobe. It just makes sense and I am a sucker for poly.

Rebecca Welton. (Ted Lasso) *screams in we could have had it all* listen. Listen. Listen. I loved the first two season of Ted Lasso. I loved the arc that Rebecca had in them of being a conniving bitch because she was hurt and wanted everyone else to hurt with her. I loved the switch from that to finding family with the team. What the fuck was the third season. What was that ending. Some random fucking dude with a kid? Forever will be angry about it and how it just...took everything that she had with Ted and went 'surely this other random dude will do'. They should have just left her alone if the ultimate goal was for Ted to go. I would have loved that for her, to stand on her two feet. Just. AGH. Anyway seasons 1 and 2 live rent free in my head and we don't talk about bruno after that.

Cat Grant. (Supergirl) While I ended up liking Astra more than Cat Grant. Cat Grant. The parallels between Cat and Miranda are *paralleling* and I still fucking love her to this day. The check boxes are checked. The plucky assistant to fall in love with is right there. Honestly if the show had aired any other time than when I was in grad school, and if Cat had been a main for more than a season I would have been even more obsessed.

Rita Repulsa. (Power Rangers) Listen. Listen. Listen. Six year old me loved Power Rangers. Six year old me also thought Rita Repulsa was the prettiest woman ever to exist. Dear god if you have only seen the Elizabeth Banks Rita, google the original. 0 idea what my six year old self was thinking. Like without the crazy costume yeah, but the crazy costume was there. So. I mean I still think about her on occasion, but usually in the context of HOO BOY I'VE ALWAYS BEEN LIKE THIS about villains. So. She counts. Also the Elizabeth Banks version is certifiably hot so like. Was six year old me wrong?

[grusinskayas]

fasten your seat belts this makes absolutely no sense god bless

ok so (one of) the problem(s) i have with ouat is that at a base level it works with extreme black and white (i'm gonna use these words a lot so beware) situations and ideas. as much as they try to act like that isn't the case, it does work with black and white ideas of good/evil and purity/impurity. and the thing is once you're working with that, it's so difficult to actually put nuance into the story. you CAN do that, yes, but superficial nuance, and not in a way that feels coherent with the elements you YOURSELF created.

one example i can think of is that one time in season 2 when snow was having a fit cause her heart had started turning black since she did some shenanigans to have regina's mom killed (lol). ok. mary margaret, a grown adult woman, has a Pure (whatever that's supposed to mean) heart up until the moment she pretty much commits Murder. then a tiny black dot appears in her heart and she's then wailing at regina's doorstep, asking regina to kill her (asking regina to do the very thing that made her own heart turn dark in the first place), cause she can't handle the pressure of having a darkened heart. and i assume the writers thought that was a nuanced moment... ? that is not nuance, that is an extreme situation (murder being committed) being put on top of a black and white element (the goodness of someone being determined by the color of their hearts), and not at all what real nuance feels like. if real nuance was there this gradation of hearts wouldn't even exist in the first place. if real nuance was there people, independent of their actions and circumstances, wouldn't be categorized as "pure" or "impure" or "very impure" in a biological, molecular level in the first place. and it took Murder to darken a heart that had been Pure for a Whole Life. again, extremes. i'm pretty sure that scene was supposed to have some sort of deep meaning about how no one is immune to making bad choices they'll regret later so we shouldn't judge them too harshly or that it's not fair to let people be forever ostracized by these choices and behaviors they're not proud of etc etc or whatever but the rules and elements are at the same time too black and white and arbitrary for whatever moral to work there.

and it's so hard to have complicated characters like regina, who are supposed to go through whole arcs of wanting and working to change. the story is repeatedly trying to tell us that good and evil is bullshit, that everyone deserves a second chance and a happy ending (don't even get me STARTED on the happy ending thing), but the very rules of your universe are so deep set into these dichotomies. remember the whole "evil isn't born, it's made" thing. and at the end regina being crowned the Good queen. i mean i get it and it's all cute and pretty and good for her! but if you really want to spread the idea that people don't deserve to be defined by a single trait that doesn't allow them to be the full fledged human beings they are then you have got! to! stop! labeling! them! i don't think they realize labeling someone as Good might be just as harmful but anyway. it's hilarious how the writers just didn't know how to handle regina's character, at some point in the show in every 10 flashbacks we got about 8 of them were related to regina fucking up someone's life in some severe way somehow. all of that WHILE in storybrooke the writers were clearly going for a redemption arc. ????? the more you take a character to an extreme, the more difficult it will be to take them AWAY from that extreme in a way that's gonna feel natural, genuine and believable. all of that to say regina mills i love you very much and i wish they hadn't fucked you up so badly

i'm still having ouat thoughts help me

[the-writing-mobster]

I really do think it's high time I actually make an Author-Sona. I think mine would be pretty fuckin sick hahahaha

[ouatsnark]

CORRECTION! Regina got the Walmart villain-to-hero Redemption Story

Welcome to another round of “what the hell did that Regina apologist just say?” where I go over a fan submitted biased piece of drivel and rip it point by point! And yes, I do know it’s fan submitted and is indeed from an Evil Regal as I had a shouting match with them on twitter.

I think my favorite part is where this fan says Regina was noble for not regretting anything because of Henry. That is some serious code for “everyone else’s lives don’t matter when it comes to a hot female character that committed mass murder, rape and child abuse!” Well done!

Also I apologize for how many times I use “child abuse” and “rape” and “mass murder”. But, hey, this is what Once Upon a Time gave us! It’s not my fault the villain rapist stans refuse to acknowledge that their favorites are just utter garbage.

In my opinion, their argument boils down to: Despite Regina & Hook both witnessing deaths of loved ones and committing the same acts of evil, the show explored Regina's evil past more thoroughly than Hook’s but Regina’s reasons for turning evil made more sense than Hook’s. And ultimately Regina’s redemption means more because she reached the point of no return multiple times but a love for a child made her fight harder to be a better person and look forward to a promising future. A parent-child love is the only way for a villain to find a valid redemption because unconditional love only exists between parent-child.

But feel free to read the entire post to see for yourself: Killian Jones was a Walmart version of Regina Mills

My Argument: Yes, Regina & Hook share similarities but only Killian Jones received a complete redemption. A parent-child love is not the only way to show a villain’s change of heart since we very much saw a true change in Killian Jones. We also saw that Killian’s love for Emma was unconditional. True love is unconditional love and the show gives us several true love couples whose love for each other was in fact unconditional. OUAT gave us two true love tests that prove Emma & Killian are true love and goes further by deliberately paralleling them with Snowing & The Princess Bride. Killian also shows unconditional love for Emma by how he handles finding out Neal is alive and stepping aside to give Henry a chance at having his parents together. He also exhibits unconditional love by forgiving Emma for turning him into the dark one and accepting her reasons for doing so. He chose to always see the best in her and her in him and that is the foundation of an unconditional love. So the premise that redemption can only happen through parent-child love is a false one and clearly done as a way to reject Killian’s redemption status.

Never mind that Killian Jones did find his path to redemption through the love of a child: Henry. His relationship with Henry was essential in becoming the man he wanted to be since it showed how much Killian had grown from the vengeful pirate Baelfire rejected to the more humble man teaching Henry how to sail. Furthermore, Killian Jones’ redemption is complete and far more relevant because he: owned his mistakes, faced victims, showed remorse, faced consequences for his actions, demonstrated a change of heart and sacrificed his life to rid the world of the darkness forever.

Whereas Regina did not face any victims, blamed others for her actions, did not sacrifice her life (in fact she let Snowing sacrifice for her), never came clean about Graham & Marian’s murders and always whined about her own happiness. She also never had a change of heart as we hear her say she hates doing good (5x23) and even after her redemption she continued to behave like she was better than others by constantly putting them down, dismissing their pain and ignoring their concerns. Also, we should reject the idea of Regina’s redemption happened because of her love for Henry due to the fact that she emotionally abused him by putting her curse and her needs before his welfare and her abuse of him was never addressed but simply brushed away. A fictional character can’t have redemption through someone they abused when that abuse is not acknowledged. That’s not character growth its just a retcon. Regina was retconned into a “good” mother in S3.

Regina vs Killian: Becoming a Villain

Blog Quote: “Despite these similarities, the show explored Regina's evil past more thoroughly than Hook’s”

Basically says Regina’s reasons for turning evil made more sense than Killian’s.

Did it really though? Yes, Regina’s past was tied into the main characters so of course the show “explored” or rather spent more time on her past than Killian’s. Everything she did was to take down Snow and she hurt many other people on that journey. That was pretty much the driving plot on why Emma became the savior.

But lets break the down differences:

Regina lived a privileged life as a princess (head canons of Cora abusing her during childhood is not supported by canon and thereby irrelevant here) who never had to want for anything. She even had a doting father who may have been a pacifist but he at least loved her.

Killian Jones was abandoned by his father who sold him into slavery when he was just a child. That is in fact child abuse. Neglect and abandonment. He was abandoned and left to face whatever cruelty at the hands of slavers. He was raised by them doing back breaking labor. Can you for a moment imagine what that life must have been like for a child?

Their backgrounds could not be anymore different. Which one do you think would be more likely to choose a dark path if we take only canon into consideration? Answer: Killian Jones since his childhood was filled with abuse, abandonment and betrayal. He’d only known evil for so long. Note: this should not be used as a generalization because criminals come from all kinds of backgrounds but statistically speaking odds were not in Killian’s favor.

Blog Quote: They both committed similar acts of evil…

Imagine thinking Killian Jones’ crimes were anywhere near the same level as Regina’s? Look how black Regina’s heart is. What did she do over the course of the series that could have possibly diminished that evil? Nothing. She did NOTHING except do good things EXPECTING to get her happy ending. Then admits in Season 5 that she hated doing it. That is more of an act of an anti-hero than a hero. Which you could argue she is an anti-hero.

So what similar acts of evil do Killian and Regina share?

Each killed one of Emma’s grandfathers

Their own fathers

Abused Belle

Murdered people

Ok so maybe there is some truth to that statement. However.

Regina is the mass murderer.

Regina is the rapist.

Regina is the child abuser and child murderer.

Regina essentially magically raped an entire kingdom in both mind and body. Her curse separated families and had people sleeping with others they wouldn’t have slept with if not for her curse. Basically, Regina’s curse removed their ability to consent much like a date rape drug which is why we say she raped Graham even in Storybrooke and her attempt to seduce David was actually an attempted sexual assault. Her curse was vile. It also gave people memories of two separate lives and the second life was not a happy one!

Jefferson: Then all we’ll do is both sit. Stuck. Two lives in our heads, cursed worse than ever. Two lives, forever at odds. Double the pain, double the suffering.

Most of the people in Storybrooke wanted to flee the bad memories the curse created. And because they were fearful of Regina. But the Evil Queen stans seem to overlook the mental anguish this curse caused people. They now have two lives in their heads and the life Regina forced them to lead is the one life they’re really ashamed of. But that life is now a part of them whether they like it or not.

So Regina filled up her heart with plenty of dark deeds, some so heinous that there really can’t be forgiveness. So trying to put Regina on the same level as Killian is just absurd and erases her more heinous crimes. While Killian Jones should arguably get life in prison… Regina Mills should have faced a firing squad or possibly even burned at the stake.

In short I believe: Killian becoming a villain makes a lot more sense and at least his revenge focused on the root causes for his misery whereas Regina decided to make an innocent child suffer. Regina also decided to take on the very life her mother was supposedly forcing her to take.

Regina vs Killian: a Path to Redemption

Blog Quote: “they both had similar moments of bravery...”

CHANEL VS WALMART Killian stepped up to the plate. Regina stepped back.

I am not going to say that Regina was never brave or didn’t have her moments. But. Come on guys. This was HER MOMENT to prove she was sorry for everything she’d put Snow and her kingdom through and she did not take it!

And lets remember that they had no idea what the serum Evil Queen was planning. For all they knew she was going to kill the Charmings on the spot. Therefore, this moment here knocks about 10 checks off Regina’s bravery/hero column. Especially since she uses her own heart later to defend Zelena against her more evil half.

I have heard others argue before “but Regina had become good by then and already made things right with Snowing and her life was worth more than Snowing’s because of Henry!” However, that’s just nonsense. Regina doesn’t even regret what she did to Snowing nor has she done anything to make up for the horrific things she did to them. She joined their side to get her happy ending not because she was sorry for what she did to them. Also, Snowing had Baby Neal. I guess Henry is more important than Baby Neal? Henry would still have Emma, his real mother, were he to lose Regina, the mother that abused him for 10+ years. And Regina needed to make a sacrifice for her victims (Snowing) and for the greater good (the town) in order to complete a redemption.

Meanwhile, Killian Jones actually sacrifices his life to save them all from the Dark Ones then goes on to be tortured and nearly throne into the River of Lost Souls because he refuses to betray them. Even refuses to betray Gold! This alone adds about 20 checks to his bravery/hero column!

I have heard people say “but this was also cleaning up his mess”! I’m sorry did I misunderstand the part where he said he did not want to become a dark one? I am pretty sure he said he didn’t want to live if it meant becoming a dark one. So I am pretty much going to lay the blame at the feet of the darkness because the darkness was pushing its own agenda. The dark ones were the ones manipulating and using him so they could return. Then Killian had found the strength to break free from their hold and with Emma’s help end the darkness forever. Or would have if not for Gold. So no, this wasn’t his mess. He gave his life to end the mess!

Now a Regina Apologist might say “but Regina was going to sacrifice herself in season 2!”

If Regina didn’t sacrifice herself to stop the kill switch then Henry would die and at that point her perceived happy ending would be gone anyway. Her curse was broken and now the child she illegally adopted and abused was in peril thanks to her actions. This might have been a brave moment but it didn’t happen because she had a change of heart. It was because her plans were thwarted and there wasn’t an alternative solution.

“but she begs to be remembered as Regina and not the evil queen!” - Regina apologists

So? She didn’t want the kid she illegally adopted and abused to see her as the monster she was. It doesn’t mean she wasn’t a monster. It doesn’t mean that moments later she would have let them all die if given the chance.

And just to be fair, I do not count Rumple giving his heart to Fook and destroying Fumple an act of heroism either. Rumple had put Henry in jeopardy for his quest to die and join Belle in the afterlife. We know everything Rumple has ever done, aside from kill his own father, has been an act of selfishness. Therefore, it is my opinion based on his past actions, that if Belle had been alive then it wouldn’t have happened.

Therefore, Killian’s bravery in Season 5 far outweighs anything Regina ever did. And Rumple cancelled out his own act of heroism in S3 by pulling all the crap he did afterwards. All hail the real Once Upon a Time Villain to Hero: Killian Jones!

Blog Quote:: “He was not as bad as Regina - not because she was eviler than him - but because he never got the chance.“

But didn’t this blogger just get done saying their crimes were similar? Never mind the idiocy of this. Imagine applying this to anything else?

“We can’t call this murderer more evil than this violent criminal because this violent criminal just didn’t get the chance to kill anyone like that murderer!” SAY WHAT? You judge them by what they’ve done not on “what they could have done”. Goodness! I swear where do Evil Regals pull this bullshit from?

Killian was 200-300 years old. I think he’d have found “the time” to be “eviler” if he really was. But he wasn’t. We’ve only witnessed a handful of Killian’s murders and some we haven’t seen he openly admits to. If the show wanted us to believe he was as evil as Regina and Rumple then his heart would have been as black as theirs.

Regina was in her late 40’s (https://oncepodcast.com/forums/topic/final-timeline-and-ages/) when the curse broke and her death tole rivaled Rumple’s who is also somewhere between 200-300 years old (Hades, S5). Regina had less time but did more evil on a far grander scale than Killian did in all 300 years of his existence. That alone makes her more evil.

So a little recap: Yes, they both killed their fathers. Yes, they both murdered one of Emma’s grandparents. Yes, their evil deeds were spurred by revenge. If you look at just the surface then the premise that Killian Jones is a male version of Regina Mills may be accurate. But if you look a little further you see there are not only significant differences but that Killian Jones comes out looking a hell of a lot better with a more complete character evolution.

Killian’s Change vs Regina’s

As I briefly mentioned in my opening, this is where the blogger pulls the “child-parent love is the only path to redemption” nonsense. Now, this blogger isn’t the first, or maybe they were the first, but I have heard this sentiment not only from Evil Regals but from the KnightRook fandom as well. Since they believe that Wish Hook abandoning his daughter to go get drunk and plot murder and rape (and none of that ever being addressed) is good enough to make him father of the year and claim his five second redemption complete.

It’s honestly 100% completely false.

The only things you need for a character redemption are:

Taking responsibility for your actions without blaming others

apologizing to your victim

showing a change of heart

learning from your mistakes

remedy the situation if possible

and in the terms of a fictional world where we’re talking about magic, murder and other heinous crimes the villain MUST:

Make a sacrifice for the greater good. That means something beyond the character’s immediate loved ones or something that would benefit them.

All of this can happen without the love of a child. Though I will say, love of some kind usually plays a part.

So between Regina and Killian, which one checked off all or most of this list? Killian Jones.

1. Taking Responsibility for your actions without blaming others

Regina blamed everyone else but herself! In fact, the evil queen becomes a separate entity to blame so Regina can become innocent of all wrong doings and get a happy ending. She may have admitted to “torture and unspeakable things” but the times she outright blames others for her actions without owning up outweighs maybe the two times she mentions it. Especially since when she mentions her deeds its when she’s crying about her happy ending. So, no, I am sorry, Regina never owned her mistakes, never had a moment where she expressed deep regret for her victims and never came to a realization that she really doesn’t deserve anything.

There isn’t a single time throughout the course of this show where Killian blames someone else for what he has done. He owned up to his part in taking Milah away from Rumple and their son. Blames himself for what Gold had him do. He has come clean about where his rings come from. It took him a moment to face his demons but he did come to the realization that he needed to face David. There was the phone call to Emma in s4. He doesn’t even blame Emma for his weakness at being unable to fight the darkness at first. He doesn’t even blame the darkness but his own weakness! There are times he might have been ashamed which is human but he never blames his deeds as if someone else was responsible.

Killian: 1

Regina: 0

2. Apologizing to your Victim

Killian Jones apologized to Ariel, Ursula, Belle, David, and Emma.

Regina’s serum half apologized to Snow but that was after some of the evil had been drained from her heart. And no, I do not count the time Regina apologized to Belle to get Belle to do something for her.

Killian: 2 Regina: 0

3. Remedy the situation

Killian Jones made things right with Ursula and then stood by Belle when she wanted refuge from Rumple. He dedicated time to help saving the fairies after he fell victim to Gold (something he blames himself for and not Gold). He also tried to make things right with Neal though Neal acted like a self-righteous ass just like his father. Sorry pal but he who sends underage girlfriend to jail for your crimes then yells at her when she didn’t immediately tell you you had a son puts you on my “asshole” list! Killian’s other victims were long since gone but we at least know he’d make amends if he could.

Regina still owns a whole vault full of hearts and I am going to once again say she let the Charmings sacrifice for her in S6! Did she ever even do anything for Maleficent? I don’t think she did! And she certainly never helped Belle. Maybe you could count the Season 3 curse she casts but really she had no other choice so I can’t in good conscious give that one to her. Nor the thing at the well in S2 since that was Henry’s doing. Really what did she remedy that wasn’t for her own personal gain?

Killian: 3 Regina: 0

4. Showing a change of heart

We have Killian Jones literally taking pages out of Emma’s book and a whole episode of him talking David out of revenge. He becomes a Dark One with all of this power yet he gives it up and never seeks it again. He is tortured in the Underworld and refuses to even write the name of his life long enemy. Gone are his wise cracks, sexual innuendo and much of his bravado. Past S4a we see a much more humble Killian Jones that is reluctant to even call himself a hero.

Regina does stop murdering people but I can’t give her this one either. Why you might ask? She says so herself that she hates doing good which to me means she has not had a true change of heart. She remains verbally abusive and looks down on others. She may no longer murder you if you tick her off but she does so figuratively with her words and actions.

Killian: 4 Regina: 0

5. Learning from your Mistakes

I think Killian shows that he has with the way he helps Emma and David. When Emma is angry with her parents over keeping the past from her, Killian is able to approach Emma in a way that portrays his familiarity with what they are feeling and knowing how to talk to Emma. Then you have his interactions with David in the S6 episode where David wants revenge on his father. Killian knows where seeking revenge leads you. And we know that he has learned enough to be very uncomfortable about keeping all of this from Emma.

Regina, Regina, Regina. Let me point right to Season 7 when she teaches Ivy dark magic and gives her mother’s evil book to Robyn. Its like she has literally learned nothing. But Regina really hasn’t had to learn from her mistakes because all of her mistakes were either erased (her abuse of Henry) or were blamed on others (Rumple, Snow, the book and the evil queen)

Killian: 5 Regina: 0

6. Making a Sacrifice for the Greater Good

Only Killian Jones sacrificed his life and was tortured to save everyone and the town by ending the darkness forever.

Killian: Hits every point. Regina: fell way behind.

Blog Quote: “Eventually, Regina became motivated to redeem herself because she wanted to. Even if she had nothing, she would still try to do the right thing. “

Why did she want to though? It wasn’t to “do the right thing”. She hated doing the right thing. Her motivation was to keep Henry and to get a happy ending. The moment she sent her lover and his “wife” across the town line she sought out to get what she felt she deserved: her story re-written. She didn’t even pause to consider that she in fact didn’t deserve that at all. And her goal was never to become a better person. It was not to make things right with her victims. It was for herself. This is evident because she keeps her vault of hearts and continues to treat all of the other characters as lesser than her. The character has no growth! Except to “stop murdering”. That was it!

Aside from sending the Hoods across the town line, I can’t think of another moment Regina “tried to do good even when she had nothing”? This blog gave no instances. Does the blogger mean at the town line in S3? When Regina had to or be cursed herself? Don’t care! When else? She didn’t do it when the Charmings were facing her serum half. She didn’t do the right thing in S4 when she was treating Emma like crap and blaming Emma for what she herself caused. So I am at a loss here.

Blog Quote: “we learned that Regina had other reasons for her villainy. One reason for Regina's evil actions developed after she became evil. The bigger villain Regina became, the more hopeless she felt.”

Honestly when? All of this is stated without an ounce of proof. Regina’s only motive was to kill Snow, destroy lives & get her own HEA. That’s it. Regina didn’t want to change. Not until all she had left was Henry and Henry rejected her. Regina straight out denied her evil past was her fault.

DEBUNKING RANDOM TALKING POINTS

aka stuff that isn’t backed up by any kind of evidence whatsoever that I found sprinkled through this article.

EXCUSING CHILD ABUSE

Blog quote: "Furthermore, Regina never regretted the terrible things she did, but for a unique, complex reason. She could not regret anything because she learned how to love again when she adopted her son, Henry."

That’s got the be the biggest puke worthy Regina Exemption Clause ever & it’s not what she said or showed.

Blog Quote: “He is a vital key component to Regina's complexity, demonstrating the lengths mothers go for their children.”

Sooo gaslighting them, isolating them & trying to murder their child’s loved ones is great lengths and a great showing of love? Really? That’s what we’re going with?

Using Fanon to excuse Regina

Blog Quote: “Regina's abuse rounded out her character & helped us understand her more. With Killian, the show writers may as well have never said anything because it barely made a difference.“

Killian was a CHILD SLAVE. Regina grew up a privileged princess. Did Cora abuse 26ish old Regina? Yes. Does that excuse what she became? No. Does that mean she was more developed? No. It doesn't. Regina is in fact not well rounded at all because we're simply told she is redeemed without her ever having to do anything to earn that redemption.

Blog Quote: “we learned that Regina had other reasons for her villainy. One reason for Regina's evil actions developed after she became evil. The bigger villain Regina became, the more hopeless she felt.”

Honestly when? All of this is stated without an ounce of proof. Regina’s only motive was to kill Snow, destroy lives & get her own HEA. That’s it. Regina didn’t want to change. Not until all she had left was Henry and Henry rejected her. Regina straight out denied her evil past was her fault.

USING ALLEGED POPULARITY AS A MEASURING TOOL

Blog Quote: Regina was the highlight of OUAT. Many viewers and critics say that she carried the show on her back

So because some fan wrote some biased drivel on a fan submitted TV “news” site… it’s a fact? Articles from Screen Rant do not reflect the general audience.

Let’s follow with this fact: Regina had the most screen time from S4-S7ep12. The show was cancelled that first half of Season 7. Do the math.

If Regina carried it then she’s responsible for those numbers and could not keep the show afloat once CaptainSwan and Snowing were gone. The show FAILED with her as a lead.

Now maybe if Regina had left and CaptainSwan had stayed the same thing would have happened. But you can’t point to fan biased articles and loud obnoxious twitter users as being representative of live audience views. Did you poll the audience? I think not.

The fact is that CaptainSwan is still being talked about today. Long after the show has ended there are still articles being generated about Emma Swan and Killian Jones both separately and together. Most of these are also fan generated but some aren’t. It is my belief judging by the content we see being produced that general audiences tend to gravitate more towards real heroes like Emma Swan, good hearted pirates like Killian Jones and love stories like CaptainSwan that show how far two people are willing to go for each other. Emma Swan and Killian Jones were a much bigger draw for your average audience viewer than Regina who spent most of the time crying about her own happiness (which is disgusting when you think about the magnitudes of her crimes).

ERROR. ERROR. ERROR.

Blog Quote: He descended into darkness after watching Rumplestiltskin crush Milah's -- his true love -- heart 

I already touched on his descent into darkness but I just had to come back to this glaring error.

I am sorry I missed the part where the show stated Milah was Killian’s true love? Or even Rumple’s?

Daniel wasn’t Regina’s either.

And this right here is probably why you can throw all of their opinions here into the trash. You can’t get that one thing right so what else did you get wrong?

WHO STRUGGLED THE MOSTEST!???

Blog quote: “We never saw him struggle with his choices.”

Yes, yes we did. Season 4 was an entire struggle for him. He also showed regret when he slipped (the phone call to Emma, him trying to free the fairies, his shame over not helping Ariel, regret over keeping the scissors in s6, shame over how he handled finding out he killed David’s father).

When did Regina struggle? Hell, she’d have re-killed Marian if she thought she could’ve gotten away with it! Whenever Regina does something wrong something or someone else always gets the blame for it.

BELIEVABLE? LIKABLE?

Blog Quote: “Regina Mills is a far more believable character than Killian Jones could ever be.“

She is 100% unlikable. She wasn’t believable as a redeemed hero. She never answered for Graham & continued to be a jerk…

This piece spends a whole lot of time on how quickly Killian & Emma fell in love… but makes no mention how fast the Charmings forgave the woman that ruined their lives? And all she had to do to earn that forgiveness was admit she’s a sociopath that didn’t regret anything! How is that believable? It isn't.

GET A NEW ARGUMENT ALREADY THIS ONE HAS BEEN DEBUNKED!

Blog Quote: “Killian admitted that he purposely intoxicates women to sleep with them.”

THAT WAS NEVER SAID! People need to stop inserting words into that moment. Emma didn’t take his line to mean he was a rapist. She didn’t even flinch. Furthermore, drinking with women isn’t a crime!

TOXIC FRIENDSHIP IS THE BESTEST!

Blog Quote: “Hook and Emma would have been a far more satisfying relationship if they had developed their friendship in between, the way Emma and Regina had.”

What friendship? Regina treated Emma like crap! And did this person miss all of S3? Emma calling Killian for help, their adventure to the past … etc. etc.

KILLIAN'S REDEMPTION DOES NOT COUNT BECAUSE IT WAS SUPPOSE TO BE ABOUT EMMA

The above occurred during the twitter conversation I had with the person who wrote the hit piece on Killian.

So because you think an arc was supposed to be about Emma you think you can just toss what happened aside? It doesn’t work like that. Whether you like what happened or not it still happened. And that right there is another prime example of why this piece is biased. You can’t toss out facts simply because you don’t like them then write some nonsense and say its all fact based. It clearly isn’t!

After saying everything I’ve said above I leave you with this final thought:

Between Regina and Killian, Killian was the only one to receive a complete redemption arc and possibly the only one that could since Regina’s crimes were beyond heinous. So the fact that the show tried to say she is redeemed without showing her redemption actually makes her the Walmart version of a villain to hero. Why is that? They thought she was too popular to kill off and killing her off was the only way for an unrepentant child abusing mass murdering rapist that never showed remorse or apologized and continued to be a bully gets any kind of redemption. She had to die for the greater good. But she didn’t.