#i just i love oot man

[shannonsketches]

Do you have a Ganondorf pov for the fealty swearing scene when he sees link and Zelda through the window?

SO!! Yes and No, and I'm so so sorry because you activated my trap card and this is one of my favorite things and I need to talk about how great this scene is in terms of narrative design.

So, in OoT, that is (as far as I know) not a scene of him pledging fealty. It was referenced in that scene in TotK, but in OoT, Zelda's dialogue indicates that he's already sworn allegiance to her father by then, and she's warned her father about her dreams, which he does not believe.

But in terms of narrative it is so economical and successful in introducing the villain and very subtly setting up your expectations for him. He's on screen for what, ten seconds? But between that and Zelda's dialogue, that very short scene tells us, the player, the two key factors:

1 - Because he's already sworn fealty, he is at the castle for an audience with the king, and if he is walking into the chamber when you arrive in the garden, it means Ganondorf got to Hyrule just before we, the player, did, which sets up the recurring story point that Ganondorf is always one step ahead of you.

2 - Him looking over at the window tells us, the audience, that he can see us. He doesn't know who Link is, as a person, in the game, but as the player, he's aware of us, and he will continue to be perfectly aware of us and exactly what we're doing throughout the remainder of the game, to the point that he uses it against us.

And I know this is absolutely NOT what you asked but I love narrative design so much, and when it comes to establishing things very quickly, this is one of my favorite scenes to reference, because as long-winded as the legend explainers are, they set up Ganondorf's mechanic within the narrative so quickly and effectively, and I just love it to death.

But I will have to draw both his fealty scene and his pov of the window scene separately at some point, yes lol

[canontypicalgoblins]

greetings to all 14 of the order of the stick fans

[narsh-poptarts]

my dark link thoughts coalesced into wonderful headcanons and crazy amounts of forced perspectives and dutch angles

also sorry HW i would have included your dark link(s) but i do not have passion for your game <3 maybe next time

Some thoughts below

I have thoughts about dark link that boil down to basically two things: 1. it's always the same dark link, and 2. dark link has a very difficult time changing.

No matter how many times dark link is brought into existence, he is formed from the shadow of link usually to test link's will. that shadow can be duplicated (as seen in HW) but generally speaking it's the same guy, sharing the thought space, you know how it is. In terms of sentience/thinking for himself, I don't think there's all that much of it. He is a dark reflection/shadow of link, so shares his abilities and thought patterns (for combat) with added aggression and. evil. i guess.

As said by navi, "conquer yourself", and all that. He's a challenge to the inner will power.

That being said!!! he can have a little bit of individuality, as a treat. Just in the form of being mean and sadistic <3 he's got thoughts, he's not just a combat doll (tho in times of low power, or a greater power having the reins, he reverts to that), so he can be frustrated, vindicated, happy, etc etc. though when your thoughts are mainly "evilevilevilevilevil" your idea of these emotions are a bit skewed.

When he's summoned for each different link, i hc that it's all the same magic, so the same dark link every time. he "remembers" in an abstract sense of his role in the same way a link or zelda "remembers" their own reincarnation. tho his is less of a reincarnation and more being used over and over again. a persistence.

The iteration that's summoned reflects the current link at the time, the part of link that needs testing/defeating, so it's not an existence that he himself can change to match the present. he's locked to that first copy/shadow only. So if he were to have a second encounter with an older link, he'd look like the first time they fought, unless he was specifically re-summoned. i hc he's got limited magic, so this is not something he can do himself.

in a links-meet scenario, his form would be limited to those specific forms of the links, and it would always be the points in time in which he first encountered them, unless there's other magic either he or someone else has access to to allow him to change forms to match.

now you might be saying at this point "wouldn't he be a weaker match if he was put up against an older link?" yeah probably lol. but also!!! i like the idea that with the limited magic he has, he's able to change juuuust enough to stay relatively evenly matched. being able to play to different strengths and all that. but the base stuff is still the same, so he is decently easy enough to read if link remembers the kind of stuff he was pulling back when he originally fought dark link.

dark link also knows about all this so while limited to the particular skillset, is able to adapt slightly.

but yeah been thinking a lot about a links-meet au where dark link is there choosing a different link to be every time he appears to the party.

though there are a couple links that he never impersonates in their games!!! so can't change into those guys unless he gets a new round of copycat magic.

Anyways goodbye guy standing there with standard camera angle, i have dutch angles and forced perspective

[bonefall]

Did Brambleclaw actually disown the Three when the secret is revealed? I don't remember this happening (then again, it's been a while) but it does bug me how all three go "Poor brambleclaw :(( He was such a good dad to us and he has to learn we're not even his biokits :(((( poor guy" while simultaneously shitting on Leafpool and Squirrelflight despite them showing them more care and affection before AND after the reveal. If he does disown them, then.... WOW is the double standard real here.

In-canon? It's something you have to approximate. They don't seem to have a concept of ""disowning"" because blood relation is taken as such an insurmountable, FUNDAMENTAL fact of life. He doesn't write them out of his little kitty will and testament, but his actions ARE disowning.

It's as if the fact he is not their biological father is an automatic disowning. From the reveal onwards, he is immediately cold, distant, and the "betrayal" is mentioned often. The Three also explicitly don't blame him for his behavior, like it's just to be expected that he's Not Their Dad anymore.

Lionblaze in particular stares longingly at him several times, really missing him. And like... that's kinda what gets my goat so much

I do believe Brambleclaw is entitled to his feelings of betrayal. I believe Squilf was ultimately in the right to lie, actually, but he's still allowed to be upset and angry that she didn't trust him enough to tell him something so important. THAT SAID, YOU ARE NEVER ENTITLED TO TREAT OTHERS POORLY.

And that's what GETS me. He isn't upset that it was all revealed in such a painful and embarassing way when this could have been avoided, or that his lover struggled with this lie for so long without him, or that he feels he's lost his children. Squilf points it out in The Last Hope-- He's so ANGRY at Squilf that he will THROW HIS FAMILY AWAY

Lionblaze seems desperate to be his son again. Hollyleaf is gone for months, and Brambleclaw is still huffing about the secret when she comes back from the dead. Squilf is fawning in the hopes it makes him talk to her again. Doesn't matter. Brambleclaw Is Upsetti Spaghetti so the narrative will never examine his role in hurting this family he apparently loved so much.

(Narrative seems to understand full well that when Squilf lies for a good reason, that doesn't invalidate the hurt Brambleclaw felt... but when Brambleclaw is upset for a good reason, it actually DOES validate what he put her and his kids through)

In BB it is explicitly a disowning. He cuts them off as his children, and they reciprocate. BB!Lionblaze does so in a ball of fury, vowing that he has ONLY a mother.

[chlo-le-mouton]

Playing ocarina of time again as an adult (i have developed severe brainrot)

[amanitacurses]

Dangerous Waltz

[scopophobia-polaris]

To be fair, I am not sure whether or not Tiny will have a closer association with that keaton mask (honestly I've been worried about encroaching too much on Timie's vibe) but, well, hopefully you don't mind him in your inbox. Timie is delightful by the way!

I have finally lured you into my ask box to publicly ask you more about him

🥺

👉👈

[bluutooth]

whoever needs to hear this PLEASE!! DONT TAKE 40 MINUTES TO GET OUT OF YOUR LOCKEROOM AFTER A HOCKEY GAME ESPECIALLY IF THERE'S A TEAM AFTER YOU OR ITS THE LAST GAME OF THE NIGHT!!! istg my ass was working a damn hour and a half after my shift ended just to clean everything up FUCK YOU LOCKEROOM TWO anyway

too silly for this shit have oot link

[spirit-tracks]

Manifesting 3 hour long Zeltik video going into depth about the Zelda series' religion and the pantheon of hyrulean gods

[ihavedonenothingright]

The more I see people trying to argue that the Zonai are actually the original founders of Hyrule, the more I wish TOTK never existed. Or the "oh the other games (especially OOT) are just false retellings of the "original history" which was Zonai." I genuinely can't imagine being so damn invested in the underdeveloped goat people you would rather retroactively turn your other game experiences into lies.

[jellyfishvibes]

It might be because I've fallen down a research hole on the master sword but half the Zelda theory videos I've been watching as background noise just make me annoyed?

Like most of them are fine, fun even, even if they don't fit into my personal insane version of what I accept as canon I do like watching them, but now I might just be accidentally picking only theory's about the sword but they are starting from a standpoint that's wrong

Like I understand alot of Zelda canon, yes some of it is complicated and contradictory and shakily built on retconns but it's a 20 year old series that's expected

What's been lost over those 20 years is what used to be canon

Like for example a theory that the master sword in the wind waker is a different master sword then the one in oot, fine theory, fun depending where you go with it but the foundations?

You have to consider what was canon at the time of wind wakers release, you can't approach evidence like Ganon saying "go back to its maker and tell them it's garbage" or a change in art style as canon and they are now

Wind waker, and all the games before skyward sword, were running with lttp canon, in which the seven sages made the master sword and it's one big ability that made it so special as a sword was that it was resistant to magic, even to the magic of the Triforce, that was it's only claim to fame and why it was the blade of evils bane, this is during a point in canon before the golden goddesses had names, before they had finalized the colours corresponding to each goddess (the pendant of power is blue and the pendant of wisdom is red) the sword isn't even that special, it's level 2 of a 4 level upgrade system

And for the art style, Wind wakers version (while toonified) is remarkably faithful to the oot version, the original version of the model which has since been retconned into matching ss and beyond designs

The actual design change happened in twilight princess to bring it in line with the gritter more realistic artstyle

I do find it fun to find in canon reasons for these design changes over time, I'm literally in the middle of a redesign series of the master sword doing just that, but you can't make theory's about things that are currently canon without any mention of or even reference to what was canon, idk it is just ticking me off to watch multiple videos about the master sword and see no reference at all to lttp or the real world timeline of the swords design while trying to use symptoms of those designs to build theory's about current canon

[appleimps]

OoT Ganon makes me go bonkers in the Fucking yonkers

[shannonsketches]

Unsure if anyone’s asked you this before, but since Ganondorf was close with the queen, does that effect his feelings toward Zelda at all? (also sorry if this has been answered before, my time online has been spotty)

I also can't remember if anyone's asked me about this because I've been yelling about it in other spaces!! I can't find anything about it here other than my piano/hair/twinrova-related headcanons, but, in short: YES. YES IT DOES. sorry for yelling this is another one of my favorite eidolon headcanons

So I have a lot of thoughts about this which I can happily break down but generally speaking, I really enjoy writing Ganondorf and BabyZel's relationship as kind of tragic, in that they are (in the way that I approach them, at least) characters who could have been very good for one another.

Unfortunately, (my) Ganondorf does not have the emotional skills to properly cope with the loss of someone as close to him as the late queen was, and does not have any real experience spending time with children. Both of those circumstances put him at absolute odds with Zelda, despite her having fundamentally more in common with him than anyone else in the cast:

Born into a role you didn't ask for

immense pressure and expectations from a very young age

being Othered by way of your society's religion

being isolated from the community you're intended to lead

All of which he had in common with the late queen, too, and is indeed what made their traumabond uniquely their own. But additionally, now he and this tiny princess both know how it feels to know your birth mother died as a direct result of your birth.

For Ganondorf, though, he doesn't think about it much. Twinrova has always been transparent about not being his birth mother, but he's never heard anyone else speak of her, and he assumes that is by design. For Zelda, there is open scorn for the loss from her father, and castle full of people who loved their queen and miss her every day.

For Zelda it's just this one ghost haunting every aspect of her life, all the time. That's something Ganondorf could've helped her navigate, because despite him not being told about it, he's certain there are people he knows who knew and cared about the woman who bore him. But unfortunately he, too, carries a quiet disdain -- but he knows it's irrational, and Impa has pointed out that it would upset the late queen to see it.

So it's this weird line he toes of 'This is my friend's baby, who she loved' and 'This is my friend's cause of death, which I hate', and it mostly comes across as polite indifference toward her, which may or may not be worse than just hating her outright.

I have a blurb drabble thought vomit about a moment between them regarding this exact thing. I sent it to some friends, but I could post it here. I'm not sure if it will make it into the comic, but I like it lol

[stonerzelda]

Totk spoilers thou hath been warned. I am so pissed abt miphas statue being moved it is NAUGHT even funny okay

[bonefall]

mmm would it be possible for Mistystar and Leopardstar to fight/met during the BOTTE? or was Leopard already fed up with Tigerstar, his batshit insane plans and her status reduced to 'Tiger's another lackey' (like Darkstripe and many others) to really care about revenge? if she ever thought about it, that is.. im assuming she would be pretty pissed about being killed (there was a post about Mistyfoot first trying to poison her and Leopard realized it and instead decided to take her on a solo patrol to.. deal with a rogue i think? and then Misty gave her a rock appointment) and might had thought about making Mistystar pay, but it's been soooo long before BOTTE that she might had.. moved on? or just decided she had better things to do, not sure.

I have a BIG rule for the BOTTE, an unmoveable object, which I will abide by like a solemn vow;

NO spirit will be killed by the same cat twice.

I already changed it so Yellowfang doesn't get Brokenstar (he's not even present) and Brambleclaw doesn't get Hawkfrost, so I certainly wouldn't have Mistystar do it to Leopardstar!

I have some ideas but first; context.

The Killing of Leopardstar

Mistyfoot was sloppy.

Leopardstar recognized the way that Mistyfoot had poisoned her food, because she'd done the same thing to Crookedstar before her. Not enough to make it quick, just enough to weaken.

The emotion that licks at her is frustration.

Is this what her life has come to? Dramatic irony? Is this some kind of cosmic joke? To die just like her predecessor, wasting away for a few seasons in the darkness of this musty den, before solemn mourning and empty platitudes from her underhanded murderer.

What should she even do about this? Reveal Mistyfoot in front of everyone, exile her, she plots against her from the safety of another Clan, some kind of rebellion, rah rah rah we just dealt with this.

It's boring. It's so boring it's offensive. This will be the state of RiverClan forever, deputies poisoning leaders and taking power quietly until the end of days. No honor, no nobility, just treachery until the sky dries up and its rich blue becomes a crackled pale-brown.

If she is to die, she will not go out in the slow and painful way she killed crookedstar without a fight.

So she smacks the limp fish aside and brushes past Mistyfoot with a snarl, not even caring enough to drink in the way her traitorous deputy's ears flushed pale, knowing she'd been caught.

Leopardstar calls for a rushed meeting, telling them all that there's actually 40 - 50 feral rogues on the border right now and she saw them all last night or something, so she's taking Mistyfoot to go confront them right now. Don't follow us.

(Something that the more astute members of the Clan immediately recognize as Leopardstar setting up cover for a death match, including Misty's brother Swansong. She snaps at him when he runs to stop her, Don't Follow.)

Once they're a fair distance away, at the southern delta that divides WindClan and RiverClan, where the cliffs will hide them and the wet stones will not catch the scent (and where Reedwhisker will die, someday), Leopardstar lays it out.

No more tricks. No more schemes. If one of them is to die, it will be with honor.

"You want my lives?"

(Boss music fades in. Misty sees the health bar appear lmao)

"Come and take them."

After she came and took them

Leopardstar is kind of obsessed with the final battle of her life. That fight was everything she hoped for, except that she didn't win.

She wants it again, and she will triumph this time.

Hawkfrost is easily able to twist it into, "You lost only because StarClan shone upon her with that stone. It wasn't real skill. Join our cause and we can get you that rematch, we will defeat Mistystar, win back RiverClan, and dethrone the Stars!" But at the end of the day, it's an excuse.

Same sort of excuse Leopardstar came up with when she believed she wanted an honorable battle, rejecting the guilt and fear that clawed at her to think about dying the way Crookedstar did.

She does this a lot. Dodging feelings of remorse or regret by substituting power fantasies, avoiding any hard lessons. She says she wants revenge, but what she's actually doing is avoiding taking an L. Shame is a vagrant in Leopardstar's heart; she will never let it stay for long.

But...

That's really hard to do when Tigerstar is actively using her and speaking over her in every interaction. Being here, in the Dark Forest, taking the SAME advice she once groomed into Hawkfrost to only look at the positives of Tigerstar's legacy and ignore atrocities, is embarassing.

It's HUMILIATING.

She had her starshine BASHED out of her with a rock and went to the hell she'd been downplaying since she "regrettably" tore down the Bonehill. Being Tigerstar's stooge. Reducing the proud, ferocious leader of RiverClan into a goon.

Towards the end, she will have a scene with Hawkfrost, proud warriors that they are as mentor and apprentice, and vaguely address this. As far as Leopardstar's ego will allow, of course... the shame of it.

It's an important moment, because it's as much about Leopardstar and Hawkfrost as it is about Hawkfrost and Ivypool.

Leopard is too set in her ways to change, even if she is capable of brief glimpses of self-reflection, of which this is one. Hawkfrost, however, is seeing his mentor and himself in a different light. How she'll let herself be humiliated over and over as long as she can cling to her ego... and how by doing Tigerstar's diplomacy work, Hawkfrost is doing the same.

And he's dragged his OWN apprentice into it, too. She accidentally double-killed her friend, Antpelt, but he killed him more by bringing all of these trainees here to begin with. How Ivypool gets pitted against Tigerheart because TigerSTAR is playing mind games, how it's destroying her bond with her sister, how much fun and joy in the Dark Forest he's missing out on by not giving the afterLIFE a chance...

How much he's thrown away for this, before and after his death.

I'm not sure yet if it's the LAST stop before the BOTTE, but it's close to the end of Hawkfrost's redemption arc. Recognition of self through the other. He is part of a cycle he has a choice to break.

But anyway... back to Leopardstar.

She wants to fight Mistystar, but I don't think I'll let her have that satisfaction. She has already gotten nearly everything she ever asked for and can't even acknowledge that she did.

I think it's most fitting for SWANSONG to finally get what he craves; a chance to take a burden off his sister.

Leopardstar allowed TigerClan to STRIP his brotherhood from her because they don't share blood. Forced him to pretend like Rippleclaw meant anything to him, as if Oakheart hadn't been his proud baba as long as he could remember. Stonefur, Mistyfoot, and Swansong are the kits of Graypool; and he's not gonna let this golden FART ignore that ever again.

So my idea is that when Leopardstar meets Mistyfoot in the Second Wave of the BOTTE, she pounces onto her for her rematch, but Swansong BURSTS out of the crowd in response and rips her off, allowing Mistystar to go back to defending their Clanmates

"I don't want YOU," Leopardstar spits, "My battle is with Mistystar!"

"Tough titfeathers! It's MY turn to get a hit in for Stonefur!" He bristles with equal parts fury and excitement, lunging towards a fight he's dreamed of for years.

Still subject to change, though! And I'm not sure if Swansong dies here, or in the 3rd Wave, or if maybe he succumbs to injuries after the BOTTE is over.

It would also be fitting if he got a whack on Mapleshade though... since Maple doesn't even consider him Applekin and won't curse him. It would be neat for him to get angry about that lmao. "What do you MEAN my siblings are haunted by a demon? But NOT ME?? What ELSE am I getting left out of???"

EDIT: I'm currently planning to kill him in the 2nd Wave

[waywardsalt]

hiiii i snapped again long rant abt totk's shit story under the cut

i hate totk's story so fucking much this was going to be a much longer post but i do not care i hate how it relies so much on the player already giving a damn and hardly does any work to make you care any more, i hate how link's sheer lack of any indication of how he feels about anything beyond basic reactions to his environment just makes him feel like a nothing character in the story, i hate how zelda was sanded down to be just perfect and inoffensive and dutiful, i hate how sonia literally existed to motivate rauru and zelda, i hate how ganondorf, despite having the most interesting animations and being the most entertaining character, had such nebulous motivations and lackluster connection to the actual world he's in, i hate how any character arc that existed was so vapid and shallow, i hate how it seemed so afraid to do literally anything complicated with its themes or characters, i hate how nothing important changed in any meaningful way, i hate how fucking insulting it feels when it's come after stories like ocarina of time, majora's mask, twilight princess, skyward sword, wind waker, pretty much any of the other fucking zelda games and is fucking $70 and yet its story and characters just feel worse than anything that came before it. i watched the scene of link and zelda meeting back up for the first time in skyward sword and the emotion from both link and zelda and the sense of history between them the dialogue manages to communicate and how it relates back to the rest of the story and while i loved it it also just made me so mad how this game's hd version came out before totk and totk just was so much fucking worse despite all of this proof that they could do otherwise