#i have an aesthetic attraction to a person. if i see a butch i think oh! a butch! a fellow lesbian! and am attracted Tumblr posts

[notedchampagne]

Trick or Treat! I haven't read tlt yet, and I'm sure I would like it, but my pet peeve is that most of the "synopses" I see are basically just "lesbian necromancers in space!" and even the back of the book that I've seen just doesn't give me much of an idea of the plot? I'm sure I would like it, but it's hard to know what it's actually About 😔

treat. thats a similar gripe i have as well! i think its good for attracting an audience but it doesnt do much to get them hooked aside from "it has lesbians in it". if you want to get a genuine tlt fic rec from me i wrote this in goodreads. yes sorry i started a goodreads i just needed to keep track of what books i read:

the locked tomb series is about the horrors of love, the tragedy of relationships beyond romance, why codependency is not as fun as you think, the joy of sacrifices, how imperialism affects culture affects people affects imperialism, and most importantly: the humor of not knowing what the fuck is going on. i PROMISE you that tamsyn ties all of these together perfectly.

gideon the ninth is about the intimacy of hating someone youve known your whole life, the all-consuming desire to make something out of yourself and how it can destroy you if youre not careful, how no man is an island, and how you are not immune to propaganda. it is also a murder mystery. i ALSO promise tamsyn writes this all in efficiently.

throughout the series, muir's gimmick is choosing the person least equipped to narrate objectively: the points of view are opinionated, ignorant, humorous, and challenging to get through if you're someone that asks "can this PLEASE be explained now??" she sets up dominoes in seemingly random places at random times, and then knocks it all over in a beautiful cascade of information that makes you feel thrilled and sick. the series is incredibly rereadable from the layers of foreshadowing and theming between all three (soon to be four) books, but for your first run you HAVE to be patient. you HAVE to be willing to be entertained. the payoff of being invested in this series is glorious; it's red-string 'am i crazy' hype. i have a google doc listing off theme connections and details that i started for fun. the characters are MEAN, which i value with my life. gideon and harrowhark are 17 and 18 years old and they act like it: they're funny, theyre self-flagellating, theyre bitchy, theyre unreasonable, etc etc. every character flaw is consistent with their being.

my biggest gripes with the series is that the worldbuilding is too weak for what i can see it being and the memes can be a little niche. the setting and necromancy is moreso a tool for the characters, so theres a lot of beautiful tidbits and descriptions, but you're not going to get any rules or meta beyond surface-level aesthetics. personally, "lesbian necromancers in space" does not cut it for me. if you were raised catholic though, this book might strike a chord with you. if you were raised catholic AND you are a lesbian, youre the target audience. i hope you have fun YOU WILL LIKE THIS SERIES/BOOK IF YOU LIKE: tragedy, character juxtaposition, the teen butch struggle, the exploration of love and toxic dynamics, mystery, sci-fi written like a fantasy novel, catholic theming, death theming, enemies to lovers but worse, freaky white girls, dyke drama, lesbians that have problems bigger than dyke drama, swordfighting, character duos, morally gray characters YOU MIGHT NOT LIKE THIS BOOK/SERIES IF YOU DISLIKE: being confused, being left in the dark for too long, unreliable narrators, morally gray characters, loose/light worldbuilding

[villalunae]

stop 👏 telling 👏 lesbians 👏 to be 👏 attracted 👏 to 👏 MEN

stop 👏 telling 👏 lesbians 👏 to be 👏 attracted 👏 to 👏 MEN

stop 👏 telling 👏 lesbians 👏 to be 👏 attracted 👏 to 👏 MEN

stop 👏 telling 👏 lesbians 👏 to be 👏 attracted 👏 to 👏 MEN

stop 👏 telling 👏 lesbians 👏 to be 👏 attracted 👏 to 👏 MEN

stop 👏 telling 👏 lesbians 👏 to be 👏 attracted 👏 to 👏 MEN

[whereserpentswalk]

Remember that supporting nonbinary people means supporting nonbinary people who don't medically transition, or who don't look androgynous, or who don't dressed differently from what's expected of their assigned gender.

And when I say "support nonbinary people who don't differ in presentation from their agab" I don't just mean fully medically transitioned transmasc femboy or transfem butches (though those people are cool and valid). You have to support people who don't medically transition, and that doesn't just mean naturally androgynous afab people who fit a butch tomboy aesthetic, or naturally androgynous amab people who fit a femboy aesthetic (though those people are valid and cool), you have to support nonbinary people whose appearance doesn't fit into any aesthetic of nonbinaryness. And not just people who plan to medically transition, or dress differently someday, you have to accept nonbinary people whose presentation is probably not going to change.

There are a lot of nonbinary people who just kind of look like cis men or cis women, and you have to accept that they're still nonbinary, that they're still valued members of the community. Nonbinary isn't an aesthetic for you to consume, it's not something people perform for you. It's an internal identity, and it's a community. We don't choose to be nonbinary (most of the time), and we shouldn't have to look a certain way for who we are to be recognized.

It even goes into the way nonbinary people (and trans people in general) are complimented, where it's always so focused on how alien the complimenter sees them as. It's always "girlcock", "boy boobs", "they/them pussy", it feels so fetishistic. And it's not even about how sexual it is, like "UwU you're such a cute genderless girlboy" feels more fetishistic than "you have dick sucking eyes". It's this focus on how the viewer enjoys them specifically as a deviantion from what they consider a normal human, as opposed to just being attracted to someone who happens to be a deviation from what most humans are. Like, I want to see someone express attraction to a nonbinary person, as opposed to just being attracted to nonbinary people as a concept. Like can people on here even really be attracted to transfem penises as penises anymore, like be attracted to them as sexual body parts they presumably want to interact with sexually, as opposed to fetishizing them as masculine body parts on a woman.

And I use chasers as an example because it's both obvious and way too common. But this acceptance without humanization is so common in so many queer spaces, and it's specifically so common twords nonbinary people. The focus on bodies, and the focus on how those bodies differ from from what someone considers as normal. As opposed to focusing on human beings and their experiences. And I think it's why it's so hard for people to accept nonbinary people who don't look diffrent from how their agab is expected to look and never will, because you have to accept experiences over aesthetics to support those people.

Like, I need to stress that if you meet a nonbinary person, whose afab, and isn't medically transitioned, and dresses femininely, you still have to accept that they're nonbinary, you have to accept that they're 0% female if they say they're 0% female. And its not just that you need to use their pronouns, you also need to not think of them as female. And I'm specifically using a non medically transitioned afab person as an example here because the internet, especially the queer internet, seems to have a specific hatred for those people (which combined with how transfem people are talked about, and how certain cis queer people are talked about, it makes me think a lot of the queer internet inherently sees feminine bodies as lesser, and sees bodies as losing value the more feminine they become).

And there's two things I mean by "it's important to support these people". The first is just that it's a lot of nonbinary people who are like this, and a lot of them are uniquely vulnerable or invalidated, and they deserve your support and love and validation. But also because if you don't support nonbinary people who don't "look nonbinary enough" for you, every nonbinary person you know is one failure to present in a way you deem valid away from losing your support. When there's a way someone can fail at nonbinaryness to you, than there aren't any nonbinary people you truly unconditionally validate.

I have to admit that I am a nonbinary person who looks a lot like their agab myself. Not telling you if I'm afab or amab, but I am telling you that I have no plans to medically transition, and I don't dress in a way that screams nonbinary. And it sucks in certain ways, especially now that I'm in my twenties and I've lost a lot of weight (both of these are things I'm happy about in general btw), I look so diffrent from what anyone wants to validate. The only time I see art of nonbinary people who look like me it's when they're specifically the opposite agab to me. It sucks that I feel like for at least 25% of the community will either always see me as basically the gender I was assigned at birth, or they'll basically see me as a binary trans person waiting to happen.

This was a lot of words and I don't know how to end it. Please reblog to support me and nonbinary people like me. It's going to be depressing to tag this a few moments from now and see just how many fetish tags you see recommended when you try to tag something with words like "enby" or "nonbinary". It fucking sucks that I see "#enby feedee" before I see "#enby pride".

[theaquinn-misc]

A-spec Lesbian

I decided to make my own list of things that have helped me realized I'm gay. Disclaimer: I'm not the arbiter of what makes someone an aspec lesbian, however if you experience some or most of these it's something to consider. Disclaimer 2: I've also not had a lot of experience dating so I can't include much of that here. This post will be divided in 3 sections: Men, Women and NBs and media

Men:

only crushing on "unavailable" men: married, in a relationship, much older, gay, fictional, celebrities

"crushing" on men and enjoying fantasizing about them, but not trying to flirt or even get close to them in any way

"crushing on a man" for a set period of time and then and thinking he's the hottest thing since sliced bread, but later (especially after a physical separation) finding him meh or cringey

fantasies about men having more to do with being happy and fulfilled in life and being seen as someone to be jealous of, not so much about the specific person

having a crush/attraction to a man only for him to return it and you realize that you feel uncomfortable

meeting a guy who is conventionally attractive and meets all your standards and telling yourself you are attracted to him but still feeling a weird pressure in your stomach/chest because "something is missing"

liking a guy, until he changes something minor about his appearance (shaves, does his hair differently) and then finding him basic/meh and losing all attraction to him

never understanding what women see in the men they date or like in media, at least looks-wise

finding even extremely conventionally attractive men to be kinda meh and thinking women attracted to men must be exaggerating how hot they find them

being uncomfortable when you find out a man has a crush on you and wanting him to stay away, but with women/nbs it's just a bit awkward and overall no big deal

having to force sexual and romantic fantasies for men and getting bored of them after a while

finding the most aesthetically attractive man in a group and deciding you are attracted to him (bonus points: being relieved when you find out he's taken/ and/or you could never date him for some reason)

being anxious or sad or bored when you imagine your life with a man

only wanting to date men if it's polyamorous (note: this is not to invalidate poly people, but if you can only imagine dating one gender ONLY if it's poly and having no issues to be monogamous with another gender... that might be something to look into)

getting sad/anxious/bored at the idea that your first boyfriend could be your forever partner. thinking "of course i want to experience life before I settle down"

wanting to dress sexy and reveal your body, but wanting to hide it when a man pays attention to you

Men expressing their attraction to men is more relatable than women expressing their attraction for men Women/ NBs:

finding only a few men aesthetically attractive but nearly every woman/queer/nb person (esp more femme ones) being gorgeous to you

wanting to impress and/or be liked by "special" women

going on dating apps and switching to "women only" even though you are (supposedly) bi/pan (note: some people may do this for safety reasons but if you can't even IMAGINE finding a guy off an app, even if you take all possible precautions, well...)

finding the fantasy of sharing your life with a woman/nb person far more rewarding and satisfying than the fantasy of doing those same things with a man

having some inkling of attraction to trans women pre-coming out, but suddenly thinking they are the most gorgeous people ever post knowing they are women(especially if they go on HRT),

really "admiring" masc/butch women and women who break gender roles (women in suits, women with defined muscles etc.)

thinking that everyone thinks women are more aesthetically attractive than men (hint: ask a gay man about this)

having deep feelings about a female actor, singer, teacher growing up etc. that feel special and unique

feeling guilty in locker rooms, not wanting to look at women too long

getting really excited at the idea of having a gf, or being a girl/nb person's gf/ partner but not feeling the same way about dating boys/men

wishing to be a lesbian because you think lesbians are cool and/or to avoid dating men

feeling uncomfortable feelings about the label lesbian, especially when applied to you (but not gay/queer/sapphic/wlw/nblw etc.)

not getting crushes on women IRL often because you're still aspec

getting crushes on fictional women, influencers, celebrities etc. Media:

never relating to m/f pairings even if they have bi/pan characters or the m/f relationships you see in media or around you.

shipping m/f, but thinking "that's cool for them, but I don't want that" (note: this might also have to with gender, if you're nb)

imagining yourself as the "man" in m/f ships never the woman

not relating to f/f ships with two thin conventionally feminine and usually white women (esp if you are fat, gnc, WoC, and/or are attracted to butch/masc women)

seeing posts about the attractiveness of men but relating them to m/m ships, not yourself

wanting every bi/pan character to be in a "gay" or at least, in a visibly queer relationship

only relating to m/f ships if they are more obviously queer. Like say, masc woman with a twink boyfriend (side note, I've never seen that, so if you have recs please send them my way)

only being able to get off on gay/lesbian porn, finding straight porn to be unsatisfying or boring or uncomfortable (note: porn is not a great way to determine sexualaity as most actresses are fetishized and fake prgasms, and most lesbian porn is not made for sapphics. but still) Things you are allowed to do as a lesbian/don't make you less gay:

Have m/f ships you feel strongly about

read/write m/f smut

relate to/write bi/pan characters

joke about liking celebrity men & fictional men

not be attracted to the women the lesbian community has decided are the hottest thing since sliced bread (Kristen Stewart is not everyone's type)

not be comfortable with certain sex acts or sex as a whole

[bilesproblems]

genuine question. not taking into account people with differing attraction orientations yk. how does the mpsec lesbianing work. bc as far as i know lesbian is just homosexual nonman? pls don't just be like "erm well that's not what lesbian means dumbfuck little radexclus bitch" i need an actual explanation that isn't just "because you're wrong lmao"

i hope this doesn't come off as rude im trying to learn i like knowing both sides of arguments and every time i try to get someone to explain i get attacked (not anon because i will forget that i put this in pls pretend im anon)

In the nicest way possible, do you think nonman is a single gender and not inherently inclusive of an mspec experience?

Mspec lesbians come in many forms, and as you've already accounted for SAM users, I don't need to go over that. But for others, the meaning varies. For me, I am not attracted to men, not sexually (well, not anybody sexually lol), not romantically. Platonic and aesthetic, totally. But as a romantic orientation (and sexual para-orientation) I am a lesbian, exclusively. I only feel attraction to women and various nonbinary genders, and I'm unsure of how I'd feel dating a bigender man but I think it would be alright as long as they were also a woman. But see here, the thing is, "various nonbinary genders" includes people who are separate from being women. This means that, while being fully and exclusively lesbian, it is inherently mspec and to imply otherwise is horribly enbyphobic and misgenders us all

For others that I know, it is an uncertainty. One feels attraction to women, men, and potentially elsegender people, but the attraction to men/attraction to people who are not women (depends on the person) is a lot more infrequent and/or weak, to the point where it's hard to even be sure if it's real attraction. In this sense, a bi lesbian would be somebody who feels like they're on the line between the two, or in a blurry area right between, and they aren't sure which they belong to.

For many... It's reclamation! Lesbian was fully nonexclusive for a long time. The movement that changed that was led by TERFs. It was not the natural progression of language, but a disgusting movement that aimed to remove bi women, trans women, butches, nonbinary people, and transmascs from being lesbians despite them all being historical parts of the community. I get why exclusive lesbians would want their own space and label, but we should have made a new one instead of taking over an existing one and kicking people out. A very small amount of bi people today are retaking their place as lesbians, because they never should have been kicked out in the first place

Also, many people don't like the nonman definition because "nonman" excludes bigender enby people and women from being lesbians just because they're also men. And it has racist origins as a term... It's not inherently wrong to use but many people do dislike it being imposed onto the definition of lesbian as such a large label because of that. I don't hate it, but I think it's kinda a bad definition... I need to rewrite my definition but lesbian is a word that deserves a definition that would make your English teachers proud, because it's such a loaded and beautiful word with so much history and variety in experience.

[heterophobicdyke]

Hey! I'm the anon from 2 days ago who was talking about the lesbian struggles with being desired.

Thank you for your replies, it's a comfort just to hear I'm not the only who's struggled with this.

I used to be very self-conscious in public, very much thinking about what strangers near me on the bus or wherever were thinking about what I looked like, and would like, adjust how I sit so my legs wouldn't look "as" big, that kind of thing. Somehow intensely aware of gender standards and feeling like I was always on trial for passing them or not. Did not know I was gay at the time.

Eventually, with delving into feminism and its theory, it helped me a LOT, to rebel against these thoughts and let my body be, to just think about what was comfortable for me. That was a tremendous change and felt way more free. I went from being hyper aware to not really caring, and feeling my body as the neutral thing it is.

But even with that, it's hard to get to a next step of seeing something beautiful or worthy of compliments in it. I got to a comfortable, freeing stage, of using my body and feeling confident using it, but /looking/ at it and accepting compliments is still very difficult. I'm grateful for it, see it as my vessel, but not much beyond that, and that, I believe is why it's hard to comprehend why my body could elicit desire in someone else.

Like yeah I'm not attracted to myself, I get it, but still weirds me out a bit that anyone can be? I think you said it was helpful to you to have women fall in love with your mind, and I completely agree, I think that was essential for me to have this foundation because I doubt I could pursue a romantic relationship if that wasn't the case.

Still, someone else wanting my body doesn't feel like wanting me, I guess, I feel separate from it even though I am comfortable in it. Being in it is great; looking at it creates the separation. So that's an odd one to figure out, cause I don't actively hate my body?? I do push away compliments because they feel silly and I know that's not good, I'm trying to be better at thag, but I genuinely don't know how to take them, except nodding politely and saying thanks. Like it doesn't turn me on to hear compliments, it does the opposite 'cause then the focus is on me. Which I feel like is a key difference when I read about people being self conscious? Seems like being complimented affirms them and makes them feel better.

Agh, this is already a long message so I'll leave it here for now. Hope it's not too much :') It is nice to share with other gay women 🩷

bestie we are on the same dang journey. "But even with that, it's hard to get to a next step of seeing something beautiful or worthy of compliments in it." YES! i also relate to "someone else wanting my body doesn't feel like wanting me."

like i can understand why someone would fall for my mind and personality, i don't think i lack in that department, but society taught me my body will be the let down. i'm specifically weird about my boobs (not as much as pre-25 tho, age does make it better) because they are just not "pretty." and i'm not into "pretty" aesthetics myself nor care for it as a concept, i'm into strong and androgynous and butch, but the women who are into me typically ARE into "pretty" bc i do have feminine idiosyncracies and vibes despite the assertiveness. and if u are into feminine vibes u usually prefer "pretty," too. which im fine w my face, i do think there's something attractive about it, but not so much my boobs. and yeah i guess im a unique kind of hot that's gonna only be for a unique kinda lesbian. it's always gonna be daunting getting naked in front of someone without worrying we're disgusting them or letting them down. but maybe we need more faith in the one we're fucking

so the hard part is trusting. trusting the woman who desires us actually does. and has more character than to be turned off bc we have "big legs" or a certain type of boobs. and that can be difficult to tell bc many lesbians are just looking for a partner for the sake of it or loneliness and, being women, tend to have sex they aren't enthusiastic about--even with other women--because they're deprived of their own subjective desire by heteropatriarchy so take on the passive role. or if they do have active desire, they don't know what to do with it bc we simply arent taught (unless u include the anti-feminist porn way we're taught to desire and be desired but that's not healthy). that's why i'm into andro/butch because there's a lack of regard for the male gaze in their presentation, which is hot, and they're typically less passive/male gazey about themselves when it comes to intimacy too. i'm into the smart type of woman who would rather go single than date someone they're not into and that's what set me on the healing process. i can trust someone genuinely desires me if i have enough faith in their character that i know they'd prefer being alone than wasting time on someone they're not

so maybe the key for you is to do your partner the service of trusting her. see it more as offensive towards her that you find her desire untrustworthy. unless ofc there is something u genuinely dont trust about ur partner and need to break up (which i dont think is the situation as you've consistently implied/said she's a great person who truly cares about you)

[zorilleerrant]

BANG BANG BANG

10 13 & 16

You said specifics last time so DC pwease

10. worst part of fanon

Don't get me wrong, I like a butch lady, but I don't know why everyone wants to make Cass so gender non-conforming. (I mean. I do know why.) In canon she leans heavily into high fashion aesthetic. Some of that reads a little more masculine these days than when they were drawn, but, like, not that much more masculine? And even when they are, they're paired with things that, if anything, read even more feminine now than at the time.

She loves her girly clothes! She loves cutesy fun soft things! She loves bright colors! Her casual clothes are the opposite of her costume, and that's by design! Her attraction to ballet as an artform is a visual struggle between her desire to look feminine and the fact that she never got a chance to do that in her childhood, while she was forcibly degendered by a white man, and then infantilized by everyone else around her. People cite that one picture of her in a tux, and it's like, that's because she's imagining herself as James Bond, and also, femme tuxes are a recent fashion trend.

If you want butch/femme StephCass, which, like, you also don't actually need one of each, why don't you butch up Steph? She wears a lot of androgynous or masculine clothing, and not that much super feminine clothing, and she doesn't like dressing up which you can easily read as a gender presentation thing. Steph can be butch and Cass can be femme and I never see it.

Cass isn't gender non-conforming! She's definitely not gender non-conforming enough to call herself a man! She'd be Batwoman if she took on the role, not Batman!

13. worst blorboficiation

Damian. I get projecting on him and using him to deal with all your personal issues, and that's fine, since he's basically a self-insert in the first place (with all love to Grant; they did a wonderful job). I expect a fair amount of variability in characterization and even think it's kind of fun, because as a kid/teen, he should be trying out lots of different looks and attitudes and interests. So, you know, the people who lean hard into Stabby Baby Loves Stabbing or Tortured Assassin Renounces Assassinry don't bother me.

...but you don't have to make it so flat. I swear, so many of them just avoid ever having any conflict in his personality. And he's a conflicted character! That's the joy of him! Whatever his conflicts are about can change, but he's the kind of character who thinks a lot about things and then can't decide exactly how he feels. He's done things he's not proud of, he wants to do things but he's not sure how, he does things the best way he can but he makes mistakes. People make him 100% right or 100% wrong and that's not how people are, not even when they're kids. Or they make all the conflicts romantic.

I feel this is especially true of him as a background character where people feel like they need to include him just because he's a Robin or whatever. So they go, oh, hey, his fans used this keyword, and then put him in doing that thing in the background. And people who like him eat it up! And I just feel like, if you don't like a character, don't include them, that's fine. But I also feel like, if you do like a character... have some standards, idk.

16. you can't understand why so many people like this thing (characterization, trope, headcanon, etc)

Character bashing. People just caricature that character's traits to make them more evil and hateful and like, why? I either already hated them, so you don't need to do that, or I didn't hate them, and now I'm wondering if you're alright there, buddy. And then they go and torture the character a whole bunch.

And it's just... if bad things happen to a character, maybe I do want to see that. I'm not immune to hating characters! I want Steve Trevor dumped in a ditch! But the joy of it would be that they're characterized well, but all the other characters hate them for the same reason I hate them. And then bad things happen, but they make sense in the context of the plot and the world.

Also when you have other characters be like 'haha let's torture this person' I'm sort of like. Okay but that's not very nice and now you're making the characters I like seem like, at best, assholes, and at worst... sometimes adult characters will torture a kid character that the author doesn't like, and, I mean, I get it, catharsis, but I'm still going to be like 'Batman why are you a bad person now' if I see that happening. I make actual faces at the words.

[katyspersonal]

Some responses

Oh jeez...... Guys, I did not expect my post to resonate with so many people. I was aware that the problem of people feeling excluded and mocked just for less common headcanons had to be big, but I still thought this post would stay between me and all five of my followers, hahah; I am glad that some people feel really heard here! Some are for very different reasons, too?

I ESPECIALLY want to point out this one, because it is exactly the result I've been seeing a lot:

@tsunbath I've heard similar things from (former?) Malenia fans, and also I know at least two friends for whom Maria was ruined as a character because of how toxic her fans were. You are VERY right about the fact that Malenia would've hated to be the symbol of gatekeeping and bullying in the fandoms! I feel like the same would go for Maria; there is no direct confirmation, but I doubt many people can argue that she IS compassionate soul. Like... how do those toxic fans keep making the deep, compassionate, tragic female character into THE symbol of mockery, exclusion and aggression? Beats me.

It just deeply resonates with me how actions of the bad type of fans can create aversion to a character or a ship. I've had this phase with Mariadeline ship tbh. My advice would be - avoid searching content for the character/ship, try to find a tiny pool of people that likes them but are normal and respectful about it, allow yourself to feel identified with "normal fans of the thing" pool rather than dread of identifying with toxic gatekeepers by association... Like, the ship got recovered for me this way, same as Maria's character herself. Just remember that toxic fans and normal fans are not the same entity... It is a very rare case where division is HELPFUL! Hopefully you will be able to recover Malenia for yourself and not think of those l00sers anymore.

@mycopok I know Mal, easily the best person to have ever crossed BB fandom, and nothing will ever replace her </3 I am just happy that her positive influence still lingers even after becoming way less active, like... yeah, fans just should be allowed to explore any idea they want. Maria x Laurence is SUPER interesting concept! In fact, the initial post WAS made because of someone venting that they were afraid to post their Maria x Laurence stuff out of fear of being ostracised!

@underworldsheiress Yeahhhh again, you are not the first one I hear a story like this from. I also heard takes like 'tomboys are the grossest aesthetic, either come out as a trans or get back in line' (not exagerration). It is REALLY unfair how a woman looking masculine should be either her being a butch lesbian, or... well, no longer being a woman in the end. Infighting and forcing pointless norms on each other is a huge problem with LGBT+ community, you'd expect people to gather to support each other but... people will be people I guess :/ Anyways gigachad move of you to wear what you want.

@alma-amentet I don't quite agree with your tastes on body types maybe not gonna lie; However what you pointed out (not so much in the tags, I saw what else you said heh) is a very good example of how fandoms are open spaces and everyone should feel welcomed here. Like, the girls in the fandoms will have absolutely ridiculously specific tastes regarding male characters - not liking shorter height, not liking slim build, prettifying their canonically not-so-attractive face, judging them in sexy look contests, throwing insults towards their appearance quirks at times...

But once someone tries to pull similar things with female characters - all HELL breaks loose. Double standards in the fandoms regarding genders of the characters are absurd. I even once saw someone in BB fandom whining about how someone attempted to discuss which female character was hotter with them...... after we, as a fandom, CONSTANTLY have shit like 'sexyman contest who is sexier Mico or Brador vote now from your phones!!!!'. .... Like idk if you need to hear this as well or not, but everyone should be allowed to say 'muscular women aren't my taste' for the exact same reason why everyone is allowed to say 'muscular men aren't my taste'.

@fantomette22 @rhythmloid Devotees of the Biphobic Order are the bane of every western fandom's existence at this point for real though :/ They will see a female character that wears pants and kicks ass and start shaking over her like Gollum with The One Ring, ignoring all the context, nuance, her personal story, other possibilities, etc... Like I said - feelings of real people who just try to enjoy the fandom are more important than some toxic bunch's creepy obsession with the character they want to crown as their token masculine lesbian based on stereotypes, no less. I say if they really care about masculine lesbians, they should direct their activity towards real world and real people. Because, again - fandomry is not activism.

Anyways thanks everyone for speaking, and sorry if the tagging annoyed you or something fdsjhfh I really appreciate that, and I do hope you all will be able to find your own group in the fandom that'll keep you mentally safe from the toxic fans ruining characters for you. Like a power barrier in the middle of the chaos! I know I did find mine, lol

[imsoglitter]

Hi kate! Idk if you’ll see this or answer but I wanted to send bc I’ve been following u for awhile and see u as sort of a big sibling/mentor that reminds me that it gets better and one day everything will be okay :’) do u have advice on how to move on? I’m femme and had my first ever kinda relationship w a butch and it was nice but they abandoned me on my bday celebration after blowing up on me saying that I was too high maintenance, materialistic, sparkly, and pink and my emotions were “too much to process” and “my presence was unhealthy” 6 months later they’re engaged to another femme who is more slow living and earthy. sucked a lot bc from day 1 they said I WASNT too much and that they would never leave. Idk I’m not sad I dont wish I was the soon wife but I’m convinced now that I’ll never find anyone bc all butches/mascs at the end of the day want that & I’ll be alone 4evr. I noticed all of my butch/femm couple friends are kinda same the same (earthy, natural, no glitz or glamour, etc). Feeling v high femme camp antics essay rn and having trouble coping. I tried changing my aesthetic and being minimalist but it put in deep depression so idk what to do. I’m unlikeable to all the ppl I’m attracted to but fitting in to be likable makes me want to kms. Any thoughts or ideas?? Hope this doesn’t come off as trauma dumping 😖

Hi anon! I don't know if I'm the right person to answer this bc I'm definitely a lazy femme who doesn't have the energy to be high femme, and the advice I'm going to give you is something you've probably heard a million times before.

If someone dislikes you enough to dump you on your birthday, you are better off without them. This goes for any other special occasion as well. The first time I got dumped, they very politely waited until I got back from a special trip I was on so it wouldn't be ruined, and I'm really glad for that. It made everything amicable and we're still penpals to this day. It sounds like your ex was bad at communicating the problems they were having in the relationship, given the blowup, and reacted pretty immaturely tbh. That's not the kind of person you want to spend your life with. (I'm also very wary of people who get married after less than a year of knowing each other, but that's a separate issue)

Honestly the best advice I can give you, and you're probably going to hate this, is take a break from looking for a sexual/romantic relationship. Focus on the other relationships in your life, whether they're with friends or family or even coworkers. And spend time with yourself. Definitely don't change everything about yourself to be with someone because you're going to have to live with yourself your whole life. The most important person to like you is going to be yourself. If you want to change think about expanding rather than dumping everything and picking something new.

And on the topic of finding someone who will love you the way you are, your best goal is to be patient, and to take action when you feel ready. Don't settle with someone who tolerates you or you'll end up like my parents (bad). And if you feel like there's potential, don't be afraid to make the first move. Pining is fun until it's not anymore so it's better to skip that part sometimes lol

Practical speaking here's my advice:

Delete your dating apps for a while

Get yourself a vibrator

Go to the movies by yourself

Pick up a new physical hobby like gardening or woodworking or cooking, something you can touch

If you hate your new hobby drop it and try something else

Try a new restaurant you've never been to before

Go for a walk/sit in a park weather permitting and birdwatch

And if you're seriously suicidal, take inventory of yourself and see if you can come up with a plan to avoid that headspace. Therapy and meds helped for me, but the main thing was moving out of a toxic environment. Plus I'm not stupid enough to pretend that therapy fixes everything all the time

I guess I'm saying you should date yourself, but trying to not make it sound super corny lol. I hope this helps and I hope you can figure out how to get out of your rut. I'm rooting for you!

[righteousdelusions]

also I didn't add it to the tags of that post because, whatever, it feels stupid to add where some random can see it, but i do want to say I'm tired of "oh she can fight but she's still femenine" and I'm always like: where are the non femenine fighters lmao? Where are they.

I don't like it. The aesthetic of maho shojo. When i was a little girl i liked it a bit, but i was never wild for it, and now I just get a bit bored.

Now that i think about it this is a thing of bodytype as well because the non femenine fighters tend to be like... Massive The Rock type bodies which are fine but I'd like more diversity in my butches lmao

In general my ideal woman fighter is a tomboy. But like, a real tomboy. She can be beautiful but she doesn't have to try AT ALL. She must be beautiful the way a boy is, as per the requisites of being a tomboy. Jolyne is... Tomboy-ish? More brass than anything else, and she's a girlie girl previous getting arrested so.

Ryuko from klk was an actual tomboy, and the whole ED of her looking at clothes -> the shoping date -> personal girlie fashion as an allegory for freedom resonated a lot with me [in that context] because I also feel that way in some sort of sense, like if i grew up in a more normal way I'd be different, I would've experimented more.

It's not like I'm not in time but you know.

KLK honestly would be perfect if it weren't for all That. But it's all That that makes it perfect also. The dilemma. I always cry at the end. Truly a masterpiece. I'm thinking about it and I kinda want to put a Ryuko icon again.

Going back, i just feel it's not an attractive hook for me that's all. Oh they are girlies but they fight. Ah ok. *They look like they are dancing* ok sure. You're not selling it for me as something that is *like shonen*. It's indeed something else.

Also the feelings are not the same most of the time, like i want a specific sort of Toxicity you know. Madoka Magica... Sort of hits? But as I said, the aesthetic is not something I'm wild for, and anyways, that's for boys too, so yeah.

And i knoooow there must be something in battle Shojo for me i know Shojo is a good demographic actually i just... I just want Naruto but written good you know? Can somebody do that to me.

[whenispeakicrossmyfingers]

love the trend/realization of looking feminine the way men look feminine, but here’s the thing: i wanna look feminine the way queer women look feminine and I wanna look masculine the way queer men look masculine. 

[cowboyjen68]

Hello! I hope you’re having a wonderful day! This is a little out of the blue so let me explain a bit. I’m an AFAB androgynous bisexual. I’m currently in a queer sapphic relationship with the love of my life, who is a lesbian.

I’ve been feeling that something is missing from my identity, and that it is tied into my relationship and the role that I play within it, and I’ve been looking around for terms/labels that would fit how I feel. I connect a lot with the term Butch but I’m cautious of using it as I’m not lesbian and I don’t want to erase the history and identity of the label.

I’ve seen a lot of lesbians caution against using the label of Butch as an aesthetic, as it’s an identity and describes the relationship between sexuality, gender, presentation, relationship dynamics and more.

Im in my 20s, In a sapphic relationship for the first time and exploring a lot of things with my partner. I’m a little confused so I’m gathering information from older lesbians and sapphics where I can, and I was hoping you’d be able to answer my questions. Thank you so much, I really appreciate it!

Hello! I am having a great day, even though late fall cold weather is setting it. I am two coffees in this early morning and I am going to do my best to answer this. Please note, I am not a historian, I don't read much lesbian theory or political writings. I can and only ever come at questions from my personal expiences and from information I have learned in the long held lesbian traditional of intergenerational friendships. Basically, stories around kitchen tables and campfires give me what I draw on to respond.

I am really only seeing the term Sapphic or queer sapphic being used in the last few years so I want to make sure I am understanding you a bit better.  Sapphic was only really ever used to mean lesbian in my circles, since it refers to the first "really out and known" lesbian, Sappho the poet. But I see lately it is being used to describe any women, bi or lesbian, who is attracted to other women. And queer is a very broad term to me. My best guess is as you said you are bi and with a lesbian and sapphic queer is an more expansive definition of how you see your self in relation to your relationship with another women (your current partner). Forgive me if I misinterpret that. Androgynous seems a description of how you are perceived by others. And what aesthetic you feel comfortable presenting yourself as to the greater world. I just want to make sure I am on the same page of understanding.

Butch has always been a lesbian term in my life time.And my friends in their 80′s and 90′s are even more FIRM in the standing that butch is always, strictly lesbian. Many in fact hold very dearly to butch/femme and the connection between the two, how they are deeply interwoven. Butch is  Never used to describe the experiences or energy of bi women or anyone other than a lesbian woman. Historically, to my knowledge, it was used to boil down the experiences and perceptions and realities of masculine lebian women to one easy word that everyone understood. A simplfied descriptor to allow women who shared similar experiences to find each other and form community and be recognized as a defined group within the lesbian and great gay community. And even in the larger world.

I have seen it used as an fashion or aesthetic look as in “that is a butch hair cut” or “that suit is very butch” or “arm wrestling, how very butch”. Mostly that is the use of an understood word to convey a stereo type or humorous take on an activity or clothing an no offense should be taken. I guess because I am firm in knowing I am butch because I have shared my experiences and found others like me who relate, a little play on the word is no big deal. No one is looking at Julie Andrews in Victor Victoria in her fitted suit and thinking she is butch. But they might say “That suit is butch”. 

If yiou are bi, butch is not for you. Perhaps masc or masculine Or don’t worry about a descriptor. If the masculinity comes off with clothes or a different hair cut it is just not the same experience as a butch. If you are naturally masculine, but not a lesbian, and believe me, here in the midwest there are plenty of straight and bi  women are far and away more mascline than I am, BUT their energy is just not the same. They are rarely mistaken for men, or “not quite women” as is my experience and that of many butches. 

I would agree with you that butch is a short cut to describe presentation as it relates to our own comfort AND public perception, sometimes relationship dynamics and sexuality. The gender part was definitely something society thrust on me first. “you act like a boy” or “why do you look like a man”. Now my own LGBT community occiasionally tries to thrust gender roles on me and other butches “Butches have muscles” or “butches are supposed to be tops” (NO, LOL) or “butches love sports” (again, NO).  

Please be you and love your woman and be protective and gentle and strong. Wear what you love to wear. Love the hobbies you love and find things that fulfill you. Butch is not for you as a bi person. It is wonderful to have a wide range of friends and find the cross over of experiences. Please seek out bi women and peope  to talk to and share your ideas and stories with them. I know bisexuals can be the hidden among us but they are out there. Perhaps a few will see this thread and reach out. 

I wish you and your love all the hope and happiness you deserve. 

[itmeansapricot]

So, this morning I was pretty annoyed to find myself subtweeted by someone rb'ing a long post about how the "Not Like Other Girls" label is used to bully neurodivergent, queer, GNC women, either explicitly or implicitly through the discussion of fiction.

Look, I can't say what people do or don't do with this concept to others IRL, but frankly it's not primarily applied to fictional characters who are significantly GNC/butch, queer, or neurodivergent. The issue, which I feel like I've written about before but who knows where that post is, is that it's typically characters who are conventional in most/many ways but explicitly look down on other female characters who are written specifically to be silly, mindless foils - or aren't even written, they're just mentioned as inferiors to the important character. At the same time, the NLOG main character is carefully crafted to not actually challenge convention. Other girls spend too much time on their appearances, but she's effortlessly attractive in a "natural" way. Other girls are so boy crazy, but she's the center of a love triangle or loved by the brooding male lead. I've yet to see people apply the label to female characters who can't make eye contact, have manic and depressive cycles, don't connect with other people emotionally, are genuinely uninterested in romance/in men, actually have men's haircuts or wear men's clothing - hell, are overweight. The entire POINT is the superficiality of their not being like the other girls/women. Do people say this about Anne Lister, Gideon the Ninth, Temperance Brennan? I don't think so. Are we really arguing that Bella Swan is acktually queer-coded or something?

I suppose I just find it particularly insulting to have that criticism leveled at me when I'm autistic and bi and definitely grew up feeling out of place among my peers, unable to fit in aesthetically or in manner or interests. Even now I'm the same, it's just that when I hit 29/30 I kind of went, "oh wait, I can do what I like and am comfortable with." None of the characters I've described this way or seen described this way have been at all relatable to me in this, they're just your Average High School Student. (There's pretty much always some "weird kid" who is more neurodivergent-seeming in the background, too.)

But to add on to that, the Abby Cox video is very, very specifically about historical fiction that plays out the trope by having a character or characters who wholesale reject corsets and skirts, and specifically on the angle of "this is not what gender nonconformity or feminism looked like in the period". If you identify with these anachronistic characters, that's fine. Nobody is saying you're a bad person for it. But the point of discussions like that is to teach people who are interested in what period gender nonconformity and rebellion in dress did actually look like, and how it can be shown in fiction. It's not that this is morally superior, but it's more nuanced and complex ... and for people who want to learn about fashion history (Abby Cox's audience), it's more interesting. You can dismiss it as uninteresting to you if it is, but it's just weird to me that, based on the resurgence of corset discourse, people apparently think that their modern ideas of what feminist and/or GNC women did or wanted are somehow more true than what we actually know about actual feminist and/or GNC women in history.

[gettin-bi-bi-bi]

Hi. I hope my question is okay. So, I'm sure I like women but I feel like I'm not attracted to most of queer women. I've always been attracted to traditional femininity and I'm not saying feminine queer girls don't exist, it seems like they aren't a lot. These days I've kinda tried to broaden my horizons but I don't feel romantic interest towards certain aesthetics. Am I an asshole? I feel like people can have preferences but in my very personal case it seems like I'll never find a girl...

First of all you are not an asshole for having a type. Most people have a type, as in there are certain characteristics and physical features that they are more attracted to than others. What those characteristics are can be influenced by many things but it can also be random/a coincidence.

Secondly: there are PLENTY of feminine queer women. I think the real problem here is what's called "femme invisibility" which is that femme-presenting queer women often don't "look queer" in the stereotypical sense and thus don't get registered as queer. Many of the feminine women you see and find attractive might actually be queer but you assume they are straight because of the stereotype that all queer women look masculine or butch. Though it is true that some queers do present in a way that is obviously queer (through clothing, hair styles, etc.) that doesn't mean that someone who does not present that way is any less queer but it does make them invisible.

So my recommendation would be to try not to jump to conclusions about someone's sexuality just based on how they look. There are many queer women out there who look the way that you find attractive. And it certainly doesn't make you a bad person or whatever that you are looking for a partner that looks the way you find appealling. If you have the chance to connect to the queer community offline (like in a queer café, meetings or Pride events) then take that chance and you'll see that queer women come in all kinds of looks, aesthetics and gender-presentations. When I first started connecting to the queer community I was scared I'd "look too straight" (because I was/am fairly feminine) and when I got there I realised how stupid that was. Yes, there were some people with rainbow hair but there were also people who didn't "look queer" at all; people that I would have thought to be straight if I had seen them in a different context. That really opened my eyes to my own prejudices about what it means to be or look queer. So once you have unlearned this prejudice you will also realise that there are many feminine queer women and (other obstacles of dating and especially queer dating aside) it shouldn't be that hard to find someone who likes to date you and who looks attractive to you.

Maddie

[holaafrica]

New Post has been published on https://holaafrica.org/biromantic-cliterference-and-gynosexual-a-non-exhaustive-list-of-queer-terms-pt-i/

Biromantic, Cliterference and Gynosexual: A (non-exhaustive) list of queer terms Pt I

Sexuality is a spectrum and gender is a construct. Thems the facts. With that in mind there is a lot to learn about these two ideas so we decided to gather this (non-exhaustive) list of sexuality and gender terms. 

Note: Some of these terms you may not identify with or may find uncomfortable. So if you have any additions or see some terms you think deserve to be removed, leave us a comment. 

A/Ace = Slang type abbreviation for “asexual” and houses the whole asexual spectrum (it’s an umbrella term kinda like “gay” or“straight”).

Ace Spectrum = The asexual squad which includes demisexual, and gray-asexual folx under a single umbrella of related sexual orientations.

Aesthetic Attraction = When you like how someone rocks their outfits and you’re feeling how they look a.k.a, attraction to someone’s appearance, without it being romantic or sexual.

Androsexual = The sexual orientation of anyone who has sexual feelings towards a man or masculine vibes.

Aromantic = Someone who experiences little or no romantic attraction.  This is usually seen as something that is a part of a person as opposed to a choice (i.e. choosing to be celibate). Aromantic people typically get their love and cuddles from platonic relationships.

Asexual = Someone who does not experience sexual attraction towards other people (i.e. they are not trying to butter your biscuit, honey). Asexual folx identify as asexual and may or may not experience romantic, emotional or physical attractions to other people.

Beard = A person who marries or dates a queer person who is in the closet in order to help them hide their sexuality. 

Beersexual = A person who will only engage in queer activities when under the influence. Often seen in television shows and often happens between close female friends.

Bigender = A person who fluctuates between traditionally “woman” and “man” gender-based behaviour and identities.

Biromantic = A person who is romantically attracted to ‘both’ sexes or genders i.e. male and female but it isn’t necessarily a sexual thing. Or someone who identifies as a member of the bisexual community (including those who are attracted to folx of different genders, not just two genders).

Bisexual = A person who is emotionally, romantically, sexually, affectionately or relationally to various genders (but more commonly thought as being attracted to the ‘two genders’). 

Cliterference = The queer woman version of cock-blocking (e.g. “When you called me to help you find your phone at the bar I was talking to that beautiful woman. You ran cliterference, my G.”). 

Ceterosexual=  Someone who experiences sexual/romantic attraction only to non-binary people.

Constellation= A way to describe the arrangement or structure of a polyamorous relationship (also known as a polycule). 

Demiromantic = A person who does not experience a romantic attraction unless they have formed a strong emotional bond. A demiromantic person may or may not experience sexual attraction.

Demisexual = Folx who don’t experience sexual attraction unless they have a strong emotional connection (such as a romantic relationship or deep friendship). Demisexuality is not a choice, it is an intrinsic orientation.

Down-low = (Usually) men who identify as straight, but have sex with folks of the same gender on the side without disclosing this to their partner(s).

Dolphin = A slender, athletic, hairless bear (all roads lead back to the bear).

Femme = 1. A person who expresses and/or presents culturally/stereotypically feminine characteristics 2. A specific lesbian identity centred around femininity (e.g. butch/femme).

Note: Femme invisibility is when femmes cannot catch a break. To sum up it is when folks do not know you are a lady loving lady because you dress and present as “straight.” ‘Cause of this feminine-presenting lesbian women are disbelieved, passed over, or intentionally ignored in gay and straight communities alike.

Finsexual = The attraction to women, females and femininity.

Fuckboi = A nonsense ass female-bodied person or boy who you should block immediately. Usually avoids being in a relationship/ healthy interaction through various manipulations or simply snaking and dodging you when they do not want to engage properly. Or simply constantly reminding you “but we ain’t together though”.  Block ‘em on all platforms and do not let them see you naked.

Futch = Feminine lesbian who also has butch swag.

Faux Mo  = Straight girls who act/look/seem interested in being queer, but are as straight as they come. 

Grey-A = The grey area between asexuality and allosexuality, where some folks see themselves landing. Grey-A identifying persons can include people who: do not normally experience sexual attraction, but do experience it sometimes; experience sexual attraction, but have a low sex drive; experience sexual attraction and drive, but not strongly enough to want to act on them; people who can enjoy and desire sex, but only under very limited and specific circumstances.

Greyromantic = The grey area between being aromantic and experiencing romantic attraction. Greyromantic identifying persons can include people who: do not normally experience romantic attraction, but do experience it sometimes; experience romantic attraction, but not strongly enough to want to act on it; people who experience romantic attraction but only under very limited and specific circumstances.

Further Reading

Pocket Queerpedia to inform activists, educators and queer communities about queer terminology (New Frame)

What It Means To Be Asexual, Bicurious — & Other Sexualities You Need To Know – (Refinery29)

Older Lesbians Try Out ‘New Lesbian’ Slang And It’s Hilarious (Huffington Post)

Check out the Basically…Life Podcast (on all platforms) and our YouTube series We Are F**kin Here for other vibes that show how queers are living, lovin’ and f*ckin.

For more info about all things gender and sexuality download our Touch Manual which has a bunch of info about dating, sexuality, gender, sex and much more!

Also visit our Instagram page and Twitter account for even more great content! To submit to HOLAA email: submissions@holaafrica.org

[bilesbiancultureis]

So I think I might be a bi lesbian but I'm very confused. Not about bi lesbians but about my sexuality.

Current labels:

Nonbinary (transneutral and neutrois)

My sexual attraction is 100% women and femme presenting or androgynous presenting people. Even butch women, etc. I find them very sexually attractive.

I am very sexually and romantically attracted to women of any presentation. I'm also romantically and sexually attracted nonbinary/trans/gender expansive people of feminine or androgynous or light masc presentation.

Hyper masc people? Not really attracted sexually. Men. Zero attraction sexually.

As for romantic/platonic attractions:

I struggle with telling apart romantic from platonic attraction so I'm unsure if I have romantic attractions for men or if it's just platonic attractions.

And I dont actually care about gender. My preferences are purely presentation. I Don't care what's between your legs. I don't care how you identify or how you were born. Literally I do not care about gender. At. All.

But I also don't like men?

Plot twist. I'm married to a Cishet man and have been for a very very long time. My husband.... I.....I enjoy sex with him most of the time. Kind of. There are some aspects of sex with him that make uncomfortable but I do enjoy being sexually active with him. I even instigate it sometimes.

But I also know that you can be sex favorable without attraction.

I Can see that he is good looking. But idk if I'm actually sexually attracted to him. idk if I even ever have been? Once I realized you can be sex favorable without attraction my mind sort of broke and I started requestionimg EVERYTHING.

And it took me awhile to be romantically/platonically attracted to him. We had to have a really deep friend connection first. I was not interested in dating the first time he asked. But after we got close, I agreed to date him.

I've also never been with or had any partners that weren't cis men (though several men I've been with ended up coming out as gay after we broke up.)

So I'm left wondering. Is it just comphet towards men? Am actually lesbian/Sapphic? Am I a biromantic lesbian? Am I still aro/ace spec? What labels even describe all of this?

I'm just confused 😕

i don’t think i’m the best person to answer this, but i’ll do my best.

the confusion about distinguishing between types of attraction sounds like you might be aspec— that’s a big part of why i identify as aro! the part about being attracted to presentation & trying to distinguish sexual attraction from finding someone good-looking makes me think of aesthetic attraction. it could be that you’re on the asexual spectrum, & are more inclined to aesthetic attraction than sexual attraction, maybe for just men, maybe for more genders. having to have a deep platonic connection before you can date also sounds like textbook demiromanticism.

the part about not caring about gender but not being attracted to men also reminds me of my own experience, and how i relate to the pan label: i don’t know that i’m attracted to every gender, but i do experience attraction regardless of gender.

it does sound to me like like you’re probably on the aro/ace-spectrum and/or the multisexual spectrum. the bi lesbian label might be useful to you. obviously, i can’t tell you your identity, but i would recommend looking into those communities. and try not to stress yourself out about it— for me, accepting the uncertainty has been a big part of my journey. it’s not entirely clear to me whether i experience particular types of attraction, or how exactly i experience them, or to whom. that ambiguity is a part of my identity. i know that my orientation is fluid, that my relationships with women have a significant impact on my identity and experience, and that i don’t relate to romance and relationships in a “typical” way. for all those reasons, i identify as an aromantic bisexual lesbian. it’s okay not to understand every nuance of your identity perfectly.