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rainbow-femme · 1 year ago

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Thinking too much about AFTG again and I know we rag on Neil for being oblivious but I don’t think Andrew understands for most of the story that Neil likes him back

(FYI I haven’t read all the extra content, Nora may have said something about Andrew’s mindset that contradicts this, I don’t care it’s my literary analysis and I control my interpretation and the only canon that exists is what’s in the books. Also I’m Jewish, and the number one rule is anything can be true so long as you can back it up textually)

You’ve got the whole “I’m not your answer and you sure as fuck aren’t mine” line. By this point two things have happened recently: Neil has become outwardly more emotionally and physically vulnerable, and Neil has shown more interest in spending time with Andrew as well as interest in Andrew in general. And Andrew’s response to this seems to be the assumption that Neil is having a crisis he isn’t sharing and seems to have decided that Andrew is the answer to fixing that crisis. To be fair he is having a crisis, Andrew is just an unrelated benefit.

Which makes sense, most of his relationships are based, at least in Andrew’s mind, on him providing a service in exchange for someone’s presence in his life due to his belief that people will not be around him otherwise. So if Neil is looking at him in an open, appreciative, and interested way he seems to assume it’s because Neil, the terrified guy on the run from something, has found himself enjoying the stability Andrew provides and is seeing being near Andrew as a solution to his problems. That maybe Neil has tricked himself into thinking he has feelings for Andrew because he likes having someone take care of him and that’s the reason, and we see from Andrew stopping the kiss when Neil is upset that he does not consider being interested in someone while emotionally vulnerable to be real consent, therefore if Neil is interested in him due to being upset and afraid that is not Neil actually being interested. He also is clearly very agitated by this first kiss, seeming to see himself as a predator who lost control and harmed Neil by taking advantage of him.

He also continues to do nice things for Neil after getting back, despite initially seeming to express frustration, disinterest, and distaste for Neil. Giving him keys to the car, buying him a new charger, giving Neil the shotgun seat. Andrew’s habit of feeling the need to incentivize the people he cares for to stay with him, as well as what appears to naturally be his love language of giving gifts and acts of service as a replacement for verbally sharing emotions. I’m not saying that when he’s doing nice things it’s for personal gain, but I think part of him feels good doing it and part of him believes this is all he has to offer this person. He got back and didn’t say nice things to Neil because he can’t, but he can quietly take care of Neil in a way that says “please stay with me, I want you to be ok” that he verbally can’t. He knows Neil values the ability to leave upsetting situations, that Neil reacted positively the last time Andrew gave him keys, gives Neil a way to charge his phone ie have a lifeline to safety and Andrew when needed, and he’s saying that he still implicitly trusts Neil with things that are important to him. And of course shotgun means “I want you to be the person who is nearest to me”. He similarly starts making a habit of sitting next to Neil when the team is together. Andrew very much is a cat, he’s going to swat at you but also glue himself to your side

There’s also the various moments where Andrew states out loud that he has an attraction and growing emotional attachment to Neil that he has already written off as impossible. He calls Neil a pipe dream, says he knows nothing will come of having an interest in Neil without having made any attempts to see if Neil is interested. If you follow up a confession of interest with a statement that nothing will happen, you can’t be hurt by rejection because you didn’t give the person a chance to reject you.

And it doesn’t seem like it’s because Andrew is purposely avoiding attachments to people. Most of the effort he puts into his life is in his relationships, specifically into giving people reasons to stay near him. He makes the deals with Kevin and Aaron, he could have gone to a school with a more competitive Exy program but went to one where Nicky and Aaron could come and be on the team and in fact made that a requirement, he proves to Kevin that he made the right choice in making Andrew his shield by attacking anyone who hurts Kevin and putting a target on his own back. Before the start of the books we know he went out of his way to connect with Renee and do things for her that meant a lot to her, things that again seem to represent “I am doing her a favor, therefore she will be more likely to stay.” And anything else could be written off as born again Christian charity rather than acknowledge she has love and care for him.

He doesn’t see an attempt at connecting with Neil to be useless because he has no interest in building relationships with people, if there’s anything Andrew is passionate about it’s building and maintaining relationships with people. He sees it as obviously useless because there’s no way Neil would legitimately want to be with Andrew in the same way that Andrew wants him, that it is impossible to consider Neil reciprocating the way he’s feeling because all he wants is Neil himself and he doesn’t think anyone could just want him and think it’s enough.

Neil says he allowed himself to be abused by the Raven’s for two weeks on the chance he could help Andrew, that he wants to care for Andrew even without any personal benefit, and that is when Andrew calls him a pipe dream. Neil has just said that he, the guy who previously was so terrified for his own safety that he put it above all else, would willingly sacrifice his safety for Andrew. When Neil says this Andrew covers his mouth to make him stop talking, which to me suggests that this revelation was an absolute gut punch to him, that what happened to Neil was not only for his sake but accomplished nothing. Andrew’s reaction to Neil saying this is to say that Neil was supposed to be a side effect of the drugs. Meaning what Neil just said made him feel so strongly for Neil that he previously assumed it could not possibly be something he naturally has the capacity to feel.

(And he stills says that he doesn’t think he could ever have from Neil what he wants. So yeah Neil isn’t the only one who can hear a heartfelt confession and come to the conclusion that the other person is completely uninterested)

Also the whole “there is no this” conversation they loop through a few times. Again, Andrew loves building relationships, but they all are ticking clocks in his head, most of them graduation unless he can come up with something to convince them to stay. And then Neil keeps trying to say that there exists a relationship between them that has not been carefully negotiated with a clear end date, which is probably terrifying to a guy who doesn’t think he can trust anyone unless he is providing them something that makes him more useful around than not.

What Neil is proposing is that Andrew has intrinsic value and his presence is all Neil wants, and that probably seems terrifying and untrue. If Neil isn’t getting a tangible benefit that outweighs any perceived inconveniences, and if there is no point where they “re-up” their contract, then at any moment Neil could change his mind and take this thing away from Andrew. He’s had people he loved decide he’s not worth it, he knows it can happen and how terrible it is to experience. He willingly dealt with Drake and harmed himself to keep Cass, and he still lost her because he in and of himself wasn’t enough to be kept and loved because he wasn’t easy enough to love, he was broken, he was damaged. There can’t be a non transactional relationship between them because Andrew can’t see himself being enough and thinks losing it would be too painful to willingly risk

(Nicky, Kevin, and Aaron also seem to have this same view as Neil in their own way of Andrew’s inherent worth to them. Nicky really deserves more recognition for clawing his way to happiness then willingly giving it all up and upending his life and doing things repeatedly that make him unhappy because he cares so much for Aaron and Andrew, aligning himself against possible friends who could make him happy because he will always choose supporting Andrew over himself. And you have Aaron showing that he will fight Andrew tooth and nail if it means they can have a good and lasting relationship, and we see Kevin form genuine love and affection for Andrew outside of their deal, but again Andrew seems to view the relationships at the time as transactional or obligatory on their ends)

Or my favorite, the scene where Andrew makes a comment about Neil’s “neck fetish.” Neil has kissed his neck only about two times by that point, and both times it has elicited what is clearly a pleasurable response from Andrew. But Andrew can’t accept the idea that Neil is doing something with no benefit to himself and only a benefit to Andrew, that he is choosing to take time away from his own immediate pleasure to do something solely for Andrew’s enjoyment of the moment

Neil responds to the comment by saying “You like it, I like that you like it.” Neil is saying that he cares enough about Andrew to have paid attention to what pleases him and wants to take the time when they’re together to make Andrew feel good in a way that Andrew makes him feel good, that he knows Andrew has trauma with physical touch on most of his body but this is a way he can reciprocate that has no negative connotations for Andrew and serves solely to make him feel good. And Andrew does not or cannot let himself see it that way because it’s too vulnerable.

The sex is supposed to be transactional, this is what Andrew has to offer to make Neil stay with him, uninterrupted time of Andrew making him feel good and asking for nothing in return. Neil is breaking the rules, he’s making it reciprocated, if he is making Andrew feel good then Andrew doesn’t have that safety net of being the one with something to offer. So it has to be something that secretly benefits Neil, it has to be that Neil is getting something out of it or Andrew is back to not having anything special that he offers to make Neil stay with him. If it’s just Neil sitting back while Andrew gets him off then Andrew is automatically the most convenient sexual partner for Neil and he won’t look for someone else. If it’s reciprocal, then it stops being a favor Andrew is doing and takes effort on Neil’s end, as well as means the sex includes Andrew knowing what it’s like to be loved and cared for, which means he will feel it’s absence when Neil inevitably leaves because Andrew isn’t convenient enough.

It honestly seems like the turning point is his conversation with Aaron about breaking their deal, Aaron making him choose their deal or Neil. Because it A. Forces Andrew to see that Aaron intends to stay in his life without the deal, meaning that yes one of the most important people in Andrew’s world loves him without a contract. And B. It forces Andrew into a position where he has to take a leap of faith that Neil isn’t going to just walk away, that Neil sees Andrew the way Andrew sees him. And I wonder if Aaron brought up the conversation he had with Neil, that Neil said he didn’t think Andrew would fight for him, and he realized that Neil not only has been thinking about him the way he was thinking about Neil, but that he had this person in his life that he cared about and he was acting in a way that made that person not feel valued and it could probably cause the very thing he wants to avoid by pushing him away.

So you finally get the very end of the last book where Andrew doesn’t deny it when Neil says Andrew likes him, which is for him incredibly vulnerable. He’s shown that he will always protect Neil without their deal of protection, and Neil has shown that he sees everything about Andrew that other people don’t like and he loves Andrew anyway.

Because the story is from Neil’s point of view we see his internal growth as he learns to recognize and accept love and care from others but Andrew has been doing the same, realizing and trusting that Kevin and his family will still be there even if he has nothing tangible to offer, and accepting that someone could genuinely know and understand him, all the things that make him inconvenient, and still want him with no extra incentive because even as broken as he sees himself to be he still has value to others and he can trust Neil in the way he wants Neil to trust him

#long post #this got so much longer than I intended oh my god #this was supposed to be like 3 paragraphs max #I have a lot of thoughts about Andrew desperately wanting love without thinking he can have it #even though he has people who love him #aftg #all for the game #tfc #andrew minyard #neil josten #andreil

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personastrologyhub · 24 days ago

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The Journey Between What Was and What’s Next

So a little transparency post.

Right now, I’m at a transitional point in my life, and I love learning more and more about astrology because I realised how practical and fundamental it is in helping me understand myself better. I’m currently trying to really investigate and learn all there is about how each house manifests, looking into deeper interpretations of what we can learn about each part of life through the houses.

Lately, I’ve been exploring the 1st House with a lot of focus on the Ascendant. We already know that the Ascendant represents the lens through which we experience the world, so I won't get into detail about what it means assuming that we all know but nevertheless, I was looking into text and work from Howard Sasportas and I really love his perspective of the Ascendent describing it as the "maze" we navigate, which also holds clues to finding our way out. Out to greatness, and out to our sun, where we shine.

For example, as a Scorpio Ascendant, which you probably guessed, the moment I mentioned (investigate). I know there’s an association with uncovering truth. I have always been about trying to find out how things work and digging deeper, uncovering doors that people would rather leave closed.

The lens through which I see the world can sometimes be of depth, sometimes secrecy, but most importantly, it's through transformation. For me, my path involves, investigating my own inner fears and shadows, bringing them to the surface and then truly transforming by letting go of habits that no longer serve me and coming face to face with my own devil.

Doing so requires me to go deeper, to surrender and let go of control and trusting that things will work out for me, and that sometimes, things need to be destroyed so that you can rebuild.

There's a connection there, between the Ascendant and how we experience new beginnings ��not just literal birth but every new phase, chapter, or transition in life will bring about or evoke the Ascendent. In the book, "The Houses" he suggests that early life experiences, particularly around birth, set the tone for how we approach these moments. For example, Capricorn/Saturn Ascendants may feel cautious or hesitant, rooted in early struggles or responsibilities tied to Saturnian energy.

Scorpio Rising on the other hand, are often marked by physical, emotional, or situational crises—a dramatic or difficult entrance into the world, may approach things with suspicion, lack of trust and the need to control everything.

I thought this was fascinating, and went to investigate and uncovered that during my birth, there was a real tussle between life and death for both my mother and me. When the doctors were delivering me, I was breached so they had to do a Emergency C section then things were going wrong and my heartbeat was raised, the process was so frantic that they accidentally dislocated my shoulder as i was being pulled out. My first baby pictures shows me in the hospital wearing a little baby sling. It’s fascinating how astrology can provide insights like this.

So for me as Scorpio is ruled by Pluto (modern) and Mars (traditional), both associated with transformation, survival, and regeneration.

Approach to New Beginnings:

Transitions for me often involve endings first—a symbolic death before rebirth.

Every new era in my life resonates with my instinct to dig deep, transform, and emerge stronger, much like the mythical phoenix rising from the ashes.

Starting this blog for me was really hard. IT WAS quite literally a tussle between my old self, thinking "will people want to read this, I'm not good enough or more knowledgeable enough than the other astrologers bloggers here and my new self that wants to rise into this new version of me where I am doing what I love to do. I snuggled immensely with cautiousness and inability to just let go and trust that it will all work out.

The Role of Intensity and Regeneration:

Scorpio Rising thrives in situations that push them to evolve. They may unconsciously attract or create circumstances that force them to confront their limits and grow.

Each new phase in life echoes the qualities of the Ascendant and the issues tied to our first house. These echoes are like subconscious patterns imprinted at birth that reawaken during transitions.

Aries Ascendant

Maze Created: Life is seen as a battleground where action, courage, and decisiveness are necessary. They interpret life as a place that rewards boldness and initiative.

Birth Symbolism: Often associated with quick or eventful births, Aries Ascendants may have entered the world energetically, perhaps as fighters, literally or figuratively.

Transitions: They approach new beginnings with enthusiasm but can rush headlong into situations without full consideration, often learning through trial and error.

Way Out: They must learn patience and strategy, realizing that not every situation requires immediate action or confrontation.

Taurus Ascendant

Maze Created: Life is seen as a place to seek security, comfort, and stability. They create patterns focused on holding onto what they have.

Birth Symbolism: Taurus Ascendants may have had slower, steadier births or situations where grounding and perseverance were required.

Transitions: They approach new phases cautiously, preferring to ensure stability before taking risks. They may resist change, needing time to feel secure in new beginnings.

Way Out: They must embrace change and let go of attachment to material and emotional security, learning that true stability comes from within.

For someone with Scorpio Rising, the story of their birth—literal or metaphorical—might hold keys to understanding their life’s themes. How do you feel about transitions? Do they mirror the intensity or struggle associated with birth? Are new beginnings met with a sense of profound transformation, or is there resistance tied to fear of change?

Understanding these patterns can offer deep insight into how we meet life and find ways to break free from the "maze" we’ve constructed.

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good-beans · 1 year ago

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You talked a little while ago about why you don't think Shidou would make a good father to Amane (agreed) and proposed the idea of Mahiru adopting Amane. That's cute but I want to tell you about my post-MILGRAM headcanon:

Amane joins the Kajiyamas

Not Fuuta specifically adopting her, but like him taking her back to his family's house. I'm sure they'd have a spare room

I think people don't think about Fuuta's homelife much, or if they do they take Fuuta's one interrogation question where he calls his dad an old fogey and assume its like, abusive

And don't get me wrong, I don't think the Kajiyama household are perfect. Fuuta' beautician sister surely hasn't helped when it comes to Fuuta's body image issues and I'm betting they're all a bunch of tsunderes too embarrassed to say they love each other

But in a series where most of the abused characters are still convinced their abuser loved them/acted out of love. Seeing a guy not be afraid to call his dad a loser is almost a green flag

I think it'd be good for Amane to not necessarily be adopted as the lone child to a single parent but get to be introduced to a very different style of family unit from her own One where its normal to express different opinions or disagreements or even have arguments and not have it be the end of the world

Amane already has a snarky side to her, I bet it'd flourish in a brash household like the Kajiyama's (or at least how I imagine them to be)

OOHHH wait I love that so much! >:O

I agree -- I never interpreted Fuuta's family as abusive or harmful, just not super close and struggling a bit after his mother left. (And yeah, all as openly emotional as him😭) They seem stable and very capable to taking in a extra, very well-behaved child. Assuming Fuuta is the way he is because of them, that atmosphere of being very honest and forward would work well for her. They say things as they are, little by little pointing out the harmful parts of her worldview. Like you said, none of them make excuses about harmful behavior stemming from love, so she'd get a really healthy dose of truth in that area. She never feels coddled or treated like a baby. They care for her while treating her very maturely.

I absolutely love how well she and Fuuta get along, with that snarky side to her that you mentioned. It would allow her to fit in well in the new household, getting the sense of belonging she'll lose after leaving the cult. Also, seeing how Fuuta and his sister let things slip and aren't perfect sons/daughters, she'll be able to relax about earning a parent's love through perfect behavior. She'll probably stay exactly the same, but her stress about it will fade <3

I doubt Fuuta's father can ever replace the hole she'll have from her own father, but the addition of an older sister will be huge. Amane will never get the feeling her mother is being replaced, but the woman will still fill the gap of the older, same-gender role model she needs. Her beautician job may throw Amane at first (being an indulgence in vanity), but it isn't as in-your-face as other careers. I think she could definitely ease Amane into accepting it, and over time, accepting her own personal "indulgence."

Plus, her moving in would also be really good for Fuuta! I think he'd recognize there's a ton of fun things she missed out on, and that heroic side of him outweighs the part that cringes: he gripes and groans about going to "kid places," but he's always the one to announce "I can't believe you've never been to __, we're going right now!!" This allows him to touch grass leave the house and experience his own life to the fullest. He's able to channel his desire to help society into a healthier outlet. Also, seeing her studying habits and plans for the future might even inspire him to do the same. (might.) He becomes the stereotypical good big brother, though of course he denies it viciously...

I have recently been going insane over their friendship so I'm completely taken with this idea OUGH thank you for telling me ;-----;

#milgram #amane momose #fuuta kajiyama #i am going to think about this nonstop now 😭✨#ive literally been thinking of how much i love their sibling relationship but didnt consider them becoming Actual siblings ;---;#my heart...#the way i interpret the family theyd be able to give her a good mix of treating her like an adult and still giving her the 'childish' care #that she missed out on #and that honesty would just be really healthy for her #she learns not to fear punishment because if someone has a problem with her theyll just say it and move on #she is also a very straightforward person so shed communicate well with all of them #and yeah... i never realized how good an older sister would be for her but thats perfect #also i dont think fuuta is that fucked up lol but it sounds like he has no commitment to school/his future #so once he realizes he wants to help amane and be there for her he really buckles down on everything #if anyone can Fix Him amane can asdfsdfs #now im picturing all the adults scrambling to prepare themselves and trying to figure out if they're in a state to take on a new child #the time comes to leave milgram and they plan this whole speech to ask amane who she'd feel most comfortable living with and all this stuff #then they spot her walking away with fuuta while hes actively trying to get her to stop following him 💀💀💀#ask #rose posts

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ghirahimprotectionsquad · 3 months ago

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GPS Reads Ghirahim’s Trope Page

I like TV tropes for the most part, but they seem to have a habit of bullying my comfort character. As far as I understand, TV tropes is meant to be informal but mostly objective. But I feel like Ghirahim’s character trope list just… isn’t. So in this post, I’m going to go through all the tropes they listed for him, and what I think about them. So yeah, there’s a reason there’s a read more on this post, It'll be a long one. Also be warned, I will likely be very nitpicky and complain about the slightest details. Because this is very important to me. Here we go:

Agent Peacock: Yeah this one tracks.

Ambiguously gay: Sigh. I have no problem with people interpreting Ghirahim as gay. But assuming that every femboy is gay is getting old.

Arch-Enemy: Yes, this one is true too, but they’re putting words into Ghirahim’s mouth here. I really don’t think LInk’s race has anything to do with it. If I had trained for centuries and then was beaten again and again by someone who hadn’t even finished knight school, I’d be pretty perturbed, too. That wouldn’t make me racist.

Attack It’s Weak Point: Yes, that does happen. … And it’s awful to watch.

Ax-Crazy: No. I already did a whole post on why he’s not, check it out if you’re curious, I always appreciate engagement.

Badass Cape: Hell yeah!

Badass Finger Snap: Hell yeah!

Bad Boss: I’m willing to cut this one slack because I can understand why plenty of people interpret it this way, but the thing is, we don’t know if Ghirahim always treats the monsters this way. It could be that he was saying this out of building anger and exhaustion from constantly working. Plus, he said ‘we’ instead of ‘I’ during his first cut scene, so he does consider them to be a part of the team and more than just living weapons. More than Demise would, to them or him. And also, even if he was going to kill them, it could be because if Demise learned that they failed, he would do much worse. … Crap, now I’m sad.

The Bad Guy Wins: He does manage to bring back Demise in the end. And this is a bad thing, don’t get me wrong, but you have to admire how he never gave up when literally the whole universe was against him and managed to win. Just imagine if he went to such lengths for you. Maybe then you will understand just why he is my comfort character?/lh

Bare-Handed Blade Block: Yeah, and it’s freaking awesome! His fighting style is so cool, squee, I love him!/qp

Beware The Silly Ones: I don’t disagree with the trope itself, but the description. Ghirahim is not a narcissist. Real narcissists don’t just brag on themselves like that, they’re much more subtle and insidious than that. They certainly don’t lose it with one loss either, and definitely never admit that they have character flaws or something is their fault, all of which Ghirahim does.

BFS: Yes, he has and is a big sword and I want to give him hiltpats. And I spent over a hundred dollars to buy a replicaof his blade to do just that. I am so financiallyresponsible.

Big Bad: Yes, he can be considered the main antagonist, no arguments here.

Bitch Slap: He does, and it’s hilarious. And also merciful, because there are so much worse things he could have done to Link…

Black Magic: Okay, no. Now you’re just being petty. Yes, he has magic and he is a demon and the antagonist. But that does not make the magic itself evil. His magic is cool and beautiful, and I will not tolerate this slander!

Blank White Eyes: Yes, and since eyes are the windows to the soul, I headcanon that this represents his autonomy being stripped away by Demise.

Blatant Lies: Okay, yes. I do understand this interpretation. But I don’t believe this is the case. I believe that Ghirahim genuinely did intend not to kill Link, but due to being infected by malice, which I believe him to be because the markings on his face resemble silver monsters from BOTW, he was unable to stop himself once he had started. In fact, I also believe this is why he took so long to put away his sword and turn around, because he was resisting the urge to just run Link through then and there. And he told Link he would beat him within an inch of his life after promising not to murder him both because it's something a villain would do/what Demise would want him to say, but also he had to make sure Link understood that even though he was trying to be kind, Ghirahim is not a safe person to be around, and Link has to keep his guard up and take the threat he poses seriously, despite his theatrical nature.

Blood Knight: Oh, for god’s sake. These people are determined to see everything Ghirahim does in the worst light, aren’t they? He doesn’t enjoy brutalizing weaker opponents. He literally alludes to this several times in his dialogue! (For example when he says he thinks corperal punishment is a bit harsh.) And he doesn’t harm a single being that doesn’t get in the way of his mission!

Blood Lust: Okay, yes. This one is true, but I don’t believe that’s all there is to it. I’ve made posts before about how I believe Ghirahim’s tongue is his way of gathering information, like his own form of dowsing. He wouldn’t have a long tongue like that if it didn’t serve some sort of purpose, you know?

Blow You Away: Yeah, he makes tornados. Not really related, but I imagine him just spinning around and around faster and faster until he gets dizzy in order to make one, and it makes me giggle.

Bond Villain Stupidity: I’ve made many a post before about how I believe this is deliberate on Ghirahim’s part, as some part of him does not want his abuser to return, though he doesn’t want to admit it to himself. Also, you called my boy stupid! How dare!

Boss Banter: Yes he does, but he also gives you tips on how to do better. Not very nicely worded tips, but still.

Boss Remix: Yes, and it’s awesome. I love his music. It always makes me smile just to hear it.

Boss Subtitles: Yes. Not much else to say about this one.

Braggart Boss: Yeah, well, someone has to brag on him. Nobody else does.

Breaking the fourth wall: It’s not actually his theme, it’s a unique melody. But I understand why because that song is actually kinda challenging to hum.

Broken Armor Boss Battle; Yes, and it’s absolutely brutal. I guess people don’t usually notice that thought because they’re busy trying to win. And most people don’t notice Ghirahim’s pain because he’s so good at making light of it and playing the villain.

Camp: He is, and it’s awesome.

Catch And Return: Yup.

Catch Phrase Insult: Yeah, he calls link boy. And you want to know who else calls link that? Demise. Who’s to say he didn’t learn it from experience?

Character Ticks: Not just ticks, stimming! My cute lil neurodivergent boy./qp

Chrome Champion: Yes. And I headcanon that his silver form is this, too. His skin is full of tiny metal filings to make it tougher, thus its coloring. And his bones are pure black metal, and they are what makes up his armor in his dark form.

Contrasting Sequel Antagonist: Yes, and I think it’s very clever.

Cool Sword: It’s about time you said something nice about Ghirahim! Yes, he is, and Demise never deserved him.

Crucified Hero Shot: Yes. And it’s absolutely horrific. I don’t understand how people just gloss over it. Even TV Tropes calls it one of the most nightmarish moments in all of Zelda. Now just imagine if the game showed blood in it… But no, no, no, no, no you did not say that he doesn’t seem to mind! For god’s sake, just listening to that laughter, you can tell that it’s not a happy sound! And the facial expression he makes, you can tell he is trying not to scream. God, this makes me angry…

Dark Is Evil: …

Deal With The Devil: Yes, he does. Demise never would have done so, and I think that Ghirahim knew damn well link would not accept it. But it was all he could think of doing to avoid harming him any further.

Death Glare: Ghirahim’s face is always pretty./qp

Demon Lord: I made a whole oneshot about this.

De-Terminator: Sure, but claiming that Ghirahim loves pain and violence again like that interpretation of his character is the only possible one.

Die Laughing: Forcefully converts him back into a sword does not begin to describe the absolute depravity of that moment.

Dissonant Serenity: He is trying to be calm. But there��s only so much he can do as a permanently adolescent (he was meant to be physically the same age as Link, stated officially by Nintendo) who is stressed, sleep-deprived, and has centuries of trauma and abuse under his sash.

The Dragon: Not just that, a slave.

Dragon In Chief: Sigh. Ghirahim does not terrorize the surface world. He only attacks those who directly oppose him, and leaves everyone else well enough alone.

Drama Queen: He is, and people irl should do well to learn how to know and say how they feel as well as he does. Not that his coping mechanisms are one hundred percent healthy, of course not. But I still find the way that he is so in touch with his emotions to be admirable.

Dual Boss: Sadly, no. Ghirahim was reduced to nothing but a sword with no autonomy who is repeatedly struck by lightning. He isn’t allowed to really help at all, which, I think, was a big part of Demise’s downfall. Demise is a cakewalk on his own, but imagine if he allowed Ghirahim to fight by his side?

Dual Wielding: My guy’s got a lot of swords. Every one of them is cool.

Dub Name Change: His name is spelled Grahim in Spanish, which I would have said was smart, but my iPad keeps autocorrecting it to Graham.

Dub Personality Change: I find this to be really interesting. It makes me wonder how I would have interpreted him had I been Japanese. Knowing me and how big of a fangirl I am, I’d probably still end up adoring him just as much.

Evil Cannot Comprehend Good: There you go, contradicting yourself again. You say that Ghirahim is a ruthless sadist, right? So, why is it that everyone before Link ran or hid, and not slain by him? Ghirahim can teleport and sense presences, not to mention create diamond barriers, and even without that, is just freaking fast! If he wanted to kill some random human, there would be no escaping for them.

Evil Counterpart: Yes, he’s the counterpart to Fi, i headcanon that they are siblings, moving on.

Evil Is Hammy: Yes, he is a ham and the antagonist.

Evil Overlord: I’m starting to think that we need more nuance names for tropes related to antagonists.

Evil Tastes Good: I’m not even going to bother with this one, since it’s clear the tropers have made up their minds about what Ghirahim’s actions mean. Never mind the fact he is not human and doesn’t even have any reproductive organs to speak of, we find him sexy, so surely that can only mean that everything he does is sexual./s

Evil Weapon: Yes, this is the role he was made to play.

Expository Pronoun: This is actually interesting information that I appreciate learning.

Facial Markings: Yes, they call them markings and don’t just assume it’s makeup! And he has bags under his eyes, a clear sign of sleep deprivation. And if you’ve read my blog before, you already know where I think that scar-like marking in his between transformations came from…

False Reassurance; I already covered my opinion on this earlier.

Family Unfriendly Death: Good, they pointed this out, at least. Thank you TV Tropes for not always glossing over Ghirahim’s pain.

Fangs Are EviL: Okay, this is just petty. Small aside, I headcanon that he has fangs in his silver form too, like a kitten, but he never lets Link see them because they aren’t very intimidating.

Fantasy Counterpart Religion: Yeah, I see the resemblance.

Fashionable Asymmetry: Yet another of Ghirahim’s delightful little quirks.

Fatal Flaw: Yes, and he admits it. Not something a narcissist would do.

Faux Affably Evil: I already explained my thoughts on this earlier.

Feels No Pain: No. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. This is completely false. Do people really not see it? Laughter isn’t always a happy thing, and he has a unique hit animation that no other Zelda enemy has, for god’s sake! He clearly feels pain!

The Fighting narcissist: Oh for god’s sake…

Flaming Devil: Okay, yes, I see how this trope applies.

Flaying Alive: Yes, and I will say it again, it does hurt him! He screams the entire time while he’s fully transforming.

Flechette Storm: Yes, and it’s completely badass.

Foe Romance Subtext: I’m fine with people interpreting it that way and I understand the thought process, but I personally do not. No judgment whatsoever to those who do, it’s just not how I choose to see it.

Foil: Yes, all that is true.

For Doom The Bell Toles: Okay, now this is starting to seem kind of funny. “Ghirahim is evil! With his evil powers and evil music. He probably brushes his evil teeth with an evil toothbrush, spread with evil toothpaste. Did we mention that he’s evil?”

Glamour Failure: As his mental state deteriorates during the game, so too does his body. And it’s sad. He tries to make himself feel better about it by bragging about it, but I personally believe he prefers the silver form more. That is his real true form. He doesn’t even feel he’s allowed to call himself a demon anymore, but what Demise wants from him: a weapon without mercy.

The Gloves Come Off: Yes, but I don’t think he makes them disintegrate, he just puts them into his inventory.

Good Old Fisticuffs: Yes. Not much else to say.

Grayscale of Evil: Here we go again…

Hammy Villain, Serious Hero: Link? Serious? Pfffffff!

Happy Dance: Yes, and it is adorable.

Hair Trigger Temper: Yeah, he can be very emotional at times. That’s what happens when you bottle things up and are never given the opportunity to learn how to express them in a healthy way. Not saying that the way he does express them is good; many things that he says to Link are incredibly messed up. But he does try to stay calm, with admittedly not a lot of success at times.

Heart Light: Yes, his gem is his heart and it glows. It’s pretty.

The Heavy: Sure, not much else to say.

The Hero’s Journey: Yes, it does match the trope, and again, I think that it has to be admired to an extent. Don’t agree with the wording of the return, but I think I’ve made my stance on that clear.

Hoist By His Own Petard: Again, I believe his hypocrisy of telegraphing attacks was very purposeful.

Hot Blooded: Yes.

Impaled With Extreme Prejudice: Yes. And it’s all hard for me to watch.

Impossibly Cool Clothes: Yes, they are cool. I bet they’re extremely silky and soft to the touch, too.

Inferiority superiority Complex: Oh my god, they actually said it! They weren’t very nice when they described it, but it makes me hopeful to see that the tropers aren’t completely blind.

It’s all About Me: Yes, I see how this trope applies, but holy crap are these descriptions biased.

Just Between You And Me: Yes, this is Ghirahim desperately confiding with Link because he literally has no one else he could talk to.

Justified Tutorial: Yes, Ghirahim teaches you how to fight him. Not Fi, Ghirahim is the one who says it. And you will have to yank my belief that this is significant out of my cold, dead hands.

Just Toying With Them: …

Kick The dog: Okay, I get it. You don’t like Ghirahim and insist on seeing every one of his actions in the worst light possible. I remember why I always steer clear of this article now.

Knight of Cerebus: Oh, come on. You mean to tell me you find him terrifying? Yeah, I get it he’s a demon and says some pretty extreme stuff at times, but come on! He has big, brown puppy dog eyes. Smh

Large Ham: Yes and I love him for it./qp

Last Second Chance: I didn’t think I would have to write that I’d covered something before this much. I understand they need to list all tropes that apply, but still.

Laughably Evil: Yes, Ghirahim is a dorky goofball and a theater kid through and through. (I’m just going to ignore the bloodthirsty nature remark)

Laughing Mad: No, it is not safe to say that he wanted it to happen, not at all!

Left The Background Music On: I headcanon that Ghirahim plays piano and enjoys playing his themes a lot and just vibing to them.

Lean and Mean: Scrawny? Really? Okay, now you’re just being petty.

Leaning On The Fourth Wall: Yes, his text box at the end does resemble Fi’s and I think that was a very cool attention to detail there.

Leg Focus: Yeah, that happens.

Leitmotif: Yes, I understand his theme was meant to be sinister, but since Ghirahim is so near and dear to my heart, I mostly just hear the whimsical part whenever I listen to it.

Licking The Blade: went over this earlier.

Lightening Bruiser: There, you see? He is fast! He could have obliterated Link on the spot if he wanted to.

Living Weapon: Yeah, he is, with all the horror to go with it.

Loves The Sound Of Screaming: Sigh. If I recall, he describes the sound of screaming as "shrill." Shrill is not usually an adjectiveused to describe sounds that are pleasant to the listener.

Made Of Iron: Yeah, he’s metal, but I think it’s something a lot stronger and more durable than iron.

Make Wrong What Once Went Right: Yeah, and can we talk about what a power move this is? The fact that Demise literally met his namesake, but he didn’t give up.

Magic Knight: Hell yeah!

Maniac Tongue: So many people treat the tongue thing as if it is the worst crime imaginable.

Mask of Sanity: Personally interpret it as a mask of INsanity, but you can’t expect Ghirahim to be completely stable considering who his master is, and what he’s like. And that’s just what happened in front of Link, I shudder to think of what Demise possibly could have done behind closed doors…

Master Swordsman: Yes, he is.

Mau The Demon King: I’m not familiar with the trope, so I won’t comment.

Meaningful Name: This is interesting stuff.

Melee Disarming: He does, and it’s super cool.

Milking The Giant Cow: The name of this trope makes me snigger. And it’s true.

Mirror Character: Yes. (Not commenting on the description.)

Misanthrope Supreme: Okay, this trope is just plain wrong and is putting words into Ghirahim’s mouth again.

Monster Clown: Yeah, I see that.

Mood Swinger: Yeah, his emotions can be very volatile.

Motifs: He loves his diamonds.

Mouth of Sauron: Yeah, he is.

Mr. Fanservice: Yes he’s pretty, yes he wears form fitting clothing, but that’s the only redeeming quality that many people see in him, and I find that really disheartening.

My Defense Need Not Protect Me Forever: He does technically win, but at what cost?

Narcissist: Going on about how beautiful and perfect you are does not automatically mean that you are a narcissist.

Nested Ownership: A sword that uses swords.

Nigh-Invulnerability: His dark form is tough, but ever notice that he no longer teleports or makes diamonds when he’s in it?

Not Worth Killing: Yet another moment where Ghirahim shows mercy, but TV Tropes is insistent on interpreting everything in the worst possible light.

Ominous Latin Chanting: Sadly, this trope is also not quite right. There are no words in the final boss theme, Latin or otherwise. It’s just singing. I think he deserves some cool Latin lyrics, though.

Ominous Pipe Organ: played by a real organ too, as all of Skyward Sword was played by a live orchestra.

One-Handed Zweihander: I did not know that his big sword was called that. Cool fun fact.

One Winged Angel: Yeah, true.

Our Demons Are Different: In the best way.

Overly Long Tongue: For a human, maybe, but it’s perfectly ordinary for him.

Practically Joker: … No.

Pre-Final Boss: I’d argue that he’s the actual final boss since he poses a challenge, unlike pushover Demise.

Psycho Knife Nut: He has a lot of knives, yes.

Psycho Supporter: What can I even say that I haven’t said already?

Rank Scales With Ass Kicking: Haha, no, Ghirahim is clearly the stronger and more competent one here.

Really Seven Hundred Years Old: Physically and mentally around the age of Link. Chronologically older.

Recurring Boss: Link fights him three times.

Red Baron: Sort of?

Red Oni, Blue Oni: Literally, with Fi. Also, my autocorrect kept trying to change Oni to onion. Ghirahim is an onion confirmed. He has layers.

Red Right Hand: I don’t care if his ears were designed this way to make his hair easier to animate; it’s in the game, so it’s canon to me.

Ring-Out Boss: Link must knock him off the platforms, which he tells him how to do, by the way.

Sadist: For god’s sake! How many times do I have to… let’s just move on.

Disturbing Threats: that he never falls through on. I’m not saying they are okay things to say, absolutely not. I’m just saying that all factors have to be taken account for, which this page does not.

Scary Black Man: I don’t think I have to explain this one for you to understand the problems with it.

Serrated Blade of Pain: Yes, it’s like that, but I don’t think he had a say in what his sword form looks like.

Sissy Villain: If you didn’t believe me before when I told you that TV Tropes likes to bully Ghirahim, maybe you do now?

Smug Snake: He has to be confident, his position demands it.

The Sociopath: False.

Spontaneous Weapon Creation: More like spontaneous weapon summoning, but it’s not his favorite kind of magic. It’s clearly the diamonds! Do you people have eyes? I’m blind, and even I understand that! (Yeah, I’m done being polite)

Starter Villain Stays: We still didn’t get enough time with him in my opinion, but I know if they tried to bring him back, the haters would riot.

Suave Sabre: Just going to ignore the part where you say subverted.

Suddenly Shouting: Yes Ghirahim, feel your feelings!

Suspiciously Similar Substitute: What are you saying? Ghirahim’s completely original and unique. You’re just trying to pad out the tropes list with something that isn’t mocking, aren’t you? (I do see the resemblances.)

Tactical Suicide Boss: Ooh, did you just almost admit that Ghirie was being merciful?

Talking Weapon: He’s a sword that can talk, like Fi.

Tennis Boss: Yeah, you can deflect his daggers, which is pretty badass.

That Makes Me Feel angry: Like I said before, Ghirahim can identify how he feels and express that. We need more of that in our society.

Throwing Your Sword always Works: Oh my god, they accidentally said that Link can pick it up instead of Ghirahim, that made me chuckle. Typo or Freudian slip?

To The Pain: But he never follows through.

Uncertain Doom: We don’t know whether he’s dead or not, but I’m thinking that he isn’t since his sword form disappears and Demise looks surprised when it happens. Ghirahim does leave his abuser in the end. But it’s hard to say what happens to him after. (I’m working on a fic about it.)

Undying Loyalty: Yes, but I feel that some of it is from abuse/Stockholm Syndrome. But imagine if you were the person who earned that loyalty? If that’s the extent he goes for someone who is terrible to him, think of what he would do for someone who is genuinely kind to him? (Oh shut up TV Tropes, it’s not his only positive trait.)

Unskilled, But Strong: The slander! Here’s an idea, what if he’s doing it on purpose? Like he could be deadly fast and not telegraph his attacks, but he doesn’t because he’s more focused on putting on a show and playing the villain, and actually giving Link a fair fight.

Variable Mix: The drums start when he draws his sword. It’s a cool detail.

Villain Teleportation: You heard it here, folks. If someone on the opposing side has any sort of power, regardless of what that power is, it’s automatically evil./s But at least they have the decency to admit that it’s cool.

Villainous Breakdown: Yeah, because narcissists totally let one loss shake them and can admit their faults. Seems totally legit./s

Wake-Up Call Boss: Yes, and it’s awesome.

Weapon Grip Failure: He chooses to leave not because he loses his sword, but because he senses that Zelda is no longer there. And come to think of it, why would she linger right behind the door that long when she must have known Ghirahim and link were there; Ghirahim was not trying to be quiet or subtle at the time. Her Manipulation of the both of them was really obvious since the beginning, and the sad thing is, it worked. She nudged Ghirahim into acting as the worst version of himself, and it worked so well that even out of universe, so many people hate him.

We Have Reserves: I talked about this earlier.

What The Hell Are You?: Yes, and it’s a pretty cool moment. Probably where the idea that Ghirahim is racist comes from, though.

White and Red and Eerie All Over: If you say so. I think he��s pretty./qp

White Hair, Black Heart: His heart is red, actually.

Why Won’t You Die?: That’s what I ask myself about the massive amounts of Ghirahim hate.

Would Hit A Girl: Say what you want about Ghirahim, but he isn’t sexist. Positive discrimination is still discrimination. I’m not saying that what he did to Impa and Zelda was okay, but still.

You Have Outlived Your Usefulness: Oh, for fuck’s sake! How many times do I have to say that just because he laughs, that does not mean he was fine with it! Ghirahim is not the one who truly has no emotional awareness here.

Your Princess Is In Another Castle: Not much to say, except this is the last one, thank God.

I’m a little embarrassed about the amount of time I spent on this. Hopefully, you all got something out of it, if only the introduction of another idea. If you took the time to read this entire thing, I truly appreciate it. May your hearts be positively filled with rainbows!

#Ghirahim #skyward sword #tv tropes #ranting #rage #long post #i don’t know why i did this #wrote this instead of sleeping #thoughts #alternative perspective #unpopular opinion #hot take #some swearing near the end

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farshootergotme · 3 months ago

Note

I know it wasn’t your intention but be careful with claiming Bruce having a personality disorder or having narcissistic personality disorder because people with trauma can get easily mixed up with disorders like that. Also, if you’re going to purpose the idea of Bruce potentially having it do handle it with care. It’s already a disorder that is heavily demonised by media and has many misconceptions about it.

Hell, as an autistic person, we also get mixed up with disorders like that, due how it is a spectrum and some of us come off as quite cold and unfeeling at times. Like I have a lot of empathy for people but I struggle to show emotion with my face. Now, I am no expert so feel free to correct me on things, if I have gotten something wrong or have misunderstood something.

Honestly, I feel Bruce is at the mercy of the writers but also time period as well really and how media tends to not write mental health very well in general like Bruce most likely has childhood trauma and ptsd due to his parents dying in front of him and seeing their corpses. It’s the same with some of Batman villains as well, they’re meant to reflection of mental health at least in modern interpretations it depends but it’s rare to see there mental health problems handled with care or how Gotham made them this way.

Now, I am not saying all of Batman villains need to be reformed but Arkham itself is about trying to rehabilitate them. Because at Batman core he believes in compassion and genuinely wants to help people. Does he always do it well no but god damn he tries.

Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying Bruce is a saint and cannot do bad things or make mistakes like seriously this man puts me through the wringer on if I want to strangle him or not. God, being both a fan of Dick Grayson and Bruce Wayne as character is me fighting a never ending battle with myself in my brain. Oh god and then you have all the eras of the characters as well ahh. So many soft reboots and retcons, gosh don’t you just love superhero comics.

Golden age, sliver age did a soft reboot,Bronze Age pre crisis did some soft reboot while also doing full reboots to other characters, post crisis probably a soft reboot again, new 52 a full blown reboot, rebirth a soft reboot while also back tracking and now 2020 anti reboot which basically killed rebirth and 52 and brought most of 85 continuity I don’t know. That’s comic logic baby.

Sorry, If I am accidentally coming off as rude, but I get a little concern when people talk about mental health and mental health disorder in general due to how much misinformation there is about it. With comics it really also depends on the writer and they view Batman in general. To me, I feel Bruce core much like Richard is empathy and compassion but he struggles to show it, he is more actions speaks louder then words guy. Seriously, his terrible communication skills drives me insane sometimes. Free feel to disagree with me, after all this just my opinion at the end of the day. Still love your posts though mate even if I don’t always agree with everything , it is still nice to see your perspective and takes on things with both characters. ☺️

Hey, no need to apologize! Is good to call people out on this type of thing with all the spread misinformation and demonization there is about disorders and mental health.

It wasn't my intention to use the term so carelessly or imply Bruce must be mentally ill or an evil person, but I'm sorry if I made it sound like that.

I assume you're talking about the part in my post about golden child/scapegoat Dick Grayson in which I mentioned I had a thoughts about Bruce possibly having BPD? I promise you I didn't do it with bad intent.

BPD is not inherently a disorder that makes someone evil or a worse person than others. People with this disorder struggle with maintaining stable relationships and many self-destructive habits. It's not a topic I take lightly, but it is still true that I consider possible that Bruce deals with many of the symptoms included in this disorder.

If I ever make a post about it I will make sure to mention not to use it to self-diagnose or demonize it when the character with said possible diagnose has acted in negative ways towards others.

And I'll say that I've read multiple articles about the disorder and searched talks about personal experiences of people diagnosed with the disorder before all this, so even though I'm not an expert I'm not just throwing the term around.

Again, sorry for mentioning it so casually.

Thank you for telling!

#bruce wayne

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archivalofsins · 4 months ago

Text

Okay, it's Mugram time. It took a while but I'm a much better writer than a reader. This is sarcasm I've had this in the back of my mind for a while and I've just gotten enough free time to really catch up on everything I was interested in. Sadly my attention is rather up and down with a lot of things. So, I'll be going over my first responses to the information provided so far and highlighting things that stick out to me.

Welcome to Gunsli and once again Star's notes on Mugram!

The Files

Gunsli: In Mugram Es goes by He/They and is identified as a Demiboy. I just find this interesting in general. I also like how it's noted that Es believes without a shadow of doubt that all the prisoners within Mugram are guilty. Yet, is choosing to adhere to J's words and look into the prisoners and their circumstances further.

This is a good way to highlight that Es has a bias that's leans more unfavorably in regards to the prisoners from the jump. This stated bias also leads me to wonder about the last part of their file.

"Es plans on finding out the truth behind these prisoners so he can finally give them the verdicts they deserve."

Because it just screams of confirmation bias a little bit. So I wonder how he'll end up interpreting the audiences verdicts.

Es even has to catch themselves from saying murders in their first voice drama lines and instead state crimes. As though they themselves already firmly believes the prisoners are all murderers. This plays on the fandoms and my own particular habit of taking milgram very literally in contrast to those within the fandom who will take things more figuratively.

There are a lot of people within the fandom who like to stretch the meaning of the word murder. To be fair, this is something that is easier for people to wind up doing. Especially when they themselves have not experienced the loss of a loved one due to something of that nature. A persons comfort with discussing violent crimes more hypothetically is incredibly dependent on their proximity to the concept of violent crime or how likely they believe it is for these things to happen to them.

Someone worried about being shot isn't going to really care about comparing anything less than what causes an immediate end to their life or physical harm a violent crime. While people protected by the individuals who do the shooting aren't really going to consider what those people are doing murder but self-defense.

So, having Es course correct from murder to crimes broadens the idea of what the prisoners can be in Mugram for. Crime is a broader term that gives the audience more space to assume and doesn't necessarily have to involve someone dying. Unlike the original term murderers that can be taken in incredibly subjective ways depending on ones proximity and experiences with murder.

"Hello, prisoners. I am your Warden, Es. I want to know about the mur– crimes you have committed. I am here to decide on your crimes, whether to decide that you are FORGIVABLE OR UNFORGIVABLE. I am... Es... I am the Warden of MUGRAM."

Finishing up with,

"...Well, no matter, I’ll figure it out in the end and judge them according to the law–"

Making it clear that Es' primary concern is judging the prisoners within Mugram in ways that align with the legal system.

Star: Hi! First of all, I think this is the tallest Es I've seen- in an ocgram and in any of the canon works. Though the age range does fit. However, the way that both their description and quote is written leaves me to believe they will be more inclined to vote unforgiven regardless of what he finds out. Furthermore, it shows a stubborn nature- someone who tends to stick to their beliefs regardless of any information shown. Whether that be in the present or future.

It also comes off as Es being the type of person to look for loopholes within the rules they have to follow to get to his intended outcome. (I need to specify that I don't think this is a bad trait by any means- it makes him feel as though he's more willing to act on his own discretion. Which is something I think would be very fun to play with.)

I also like the aesthetic of using files to show character profiles! The brief glimpses I've seen of Mugram before seem to portray it in a very court of law fashion so it's a nice attention to detail.

Gunsli: In contrast, J (the Jackalope of Mugram) is young naïve and can't even imagine the prisoners committing murder. Even referencing the three years old age for J that was speculated to be Jackalopes canon age earlier in the fandom. Since many ran with the assumption that Jackalope within the web series only began to exist when Milgram started.

Yes, even though in Es' first voice drama Jackalope makes consecutive references to his age and alludes that he is, in fact, older than Es. By teasing them and wondering if they're too young to actually handle the themes that Milgram will be covering.

I think it's a nice dichotomy to have here while being a kind of subtle nod to that idea. Though I don't know how much we should listen to either of them.

Since they both have clear biases.

Star: I like J's fur pattern- it's cute! And I appreciate having a birthday for him. Though the fact that he wants to forgive everyone seems as though he's overly invested. Emotionally speaking, that is. I could say that there's also the possibility that he's negligent/unaware of the prisoners past a first impression? Since his quote-

"I mean, in my opinion, I'd just FORGIVE all of them. Some of them don't seem like they'd ever commit murder. But, it's really up to you, Es."

-comes off as rather flippant. However, if we refer back to Es' profile, it's implied with this-

He believes there is no doubt the prisoners are guilty, but they'll listen to J's words and try to learn about their lives.

-that Jackalope specifically asked them to enquire about their circumstances. So it's more likely that he's either too attached emotionally or that he is gunning for reformation instead, for lack of a better word.

The Beginning of the Choices

Gunsli: It's kind of weird that J says they're murderers then that some of them seem like they could never kill anyone. It's like, buddy, do you even know why they're in here? If they don't seem like they could commit murder don't call them murderers so definitively.

It seems like J is more so going off a script of sorts than information they actually have. Since he contradicts himself a lot.

Plus it kind of sticks to Milgram proper with the explanation and heavily highlights the forgiven or unforgiven title. It emphasizes it a lot. Yet when it comes to people dying I feel like the only people who can really choose whether to forgive that or not are the ones tied to those people.

Mugram focuses on the legal system. So, legally they could be pardoned or convicted/sentenced. To keep it unforgiven or forgiven makes it seem like what they did has no real legal basis. At least that's the impression it's giving off.

Star: It's... hard to put a pin in J's behaviour. Because, as Gunsli has said above, it could come off as reading a script. But then immediately contradicting it with personal opinions and not actually being that informed. However, it could also come off as... almost goading Es into doing due diligence. Though that might be extending the benefit of the doubt too much. It is a bit disconcerting when compared to his and Es' character profiles though.

Justice

Gunsli: Well, that at least confirms the growing suspicions I had about J. It seems he's kept here in the Milgram with even a room of his own. So he's really no different than the prisoners in that regard.

Es: What’s opposite my room?

Jackalope: My room! You can’t enter without my permission, though.

Es: Eh, I don’t plan on it. Plus, there’s no door big enough for a human anyway.

There wasn't a room for Jackalope in the original was there?

Star: I find it interesting that, in contrast to Milgram proper, J claims to not know much about the prisoners because it's restricted information. As opposed to Jackalope, who says he's just not invested enough. I wonder if this is intentional as a way to show that J isn't as high up on the scale as one would be lead to believe? But it does seem like he is pushing for Es to do their job, despite their clear lack of interest in acting outside of the confines of the law.

Es also comes off as fairly dismissive in this, which leans into my point about him coming across as stubborn. And less likely to take in information that contradicts their worldview.

Gunsli: This line highlights again how naive J is in contrast to Jackalope of the web series.

Jackalope: Well, first impressions reveal a lot about a person, so…

In Es' voice drama in the milgram web series around this time Jackalope says,

"A human's first impressions reveal about ninety percent. If I had the right I'd vote guilty without hesitation."

J just says that first impressions reveal a lot about a person. Jackalope is more specific about the amount of information it reveals stating it tells you ninety percent about the person. You can get a good grasp of them but Jackalope as he's prone to do leaves what information it gives up to interpretation. A first impression usually involves learning a persons name seeing how they look/present themselves. Yet it doesn't tell you how they think, feel, or ended up in front of you. That's the ten percent you find out over the course of getting to know someone.

J is a bit too immature to really hone in on what first impressions tell you and what they leave to be desired. So they just say they tell you a lot. Because he was probably told they're meant to tell you a lot by someone else.

J shows his ineptitude when it comes to how Milgram functioned here,

Es: Well, no matter, I’ll figure it out in the end and judge them according to the law–

Jackalope: Eh? According to the law? Well, if we just judged them according to the law, then there’s no point in you being here. [Es makes an annoyed noise] You should make decisions based on your own standards. Even if it's based on sex or love, I have no problem with it.

Es: …Let’s just move on.

When he dissuades Es from making judgments based on their preferences. Saying if we were judging them by the law then there would be no reason for Es to be here. This is something said in the webseries but it is swiftly brought up after that using the law as a reason for a verdict is actually still allowed. Because any bias is allowed and none are excluded.

Yet, for some reason, J tries to exclude the law as a basis. This could be because the prisoners here are already unforgivable in the eyes of the law. So, J has a vested interest in keeping the legal system out of it.

Or due to general naivety.

Since this is Mugram maybe the law is exempt from being considered proper criteria to cast a judgment through.

Judge, Jury, Executioner - Scene Transcript

Gunsli: It's interesting I'm not too concerned about Es yet though. I don't know enough about them and he seems like a bit of a hard ass. I don't really like rigid characters too much. I tend to like people who are more flexible.

Star: Reading this, Es moreso feels like they are trying to cling to some form of control/identity markers, despite him recognising that those roles don't fit. It also makes the continued insistence about voting the prisoners unforgiven seem as though it's an extension of those issues. That combined with the mental image they seem to have of the law and those who work within it. That being said, they know at least one thing about himself- he likes sweet tea! It's something small, but it is something :- D

However, they don't seem as confrontational as they initially come off. Since when J asks if they like the tea, he says yes- despite immediately thinking it's bitter. But also can't wait to see Es fall into dissociative patterns lmao

001: Mayumi Kubo

Gunsli: Weird that's she's arguing for everyone else's innocence but not her own. People tend to do that when they have something they feel guilty about or are trying to make up for. It's also kind of stupid she says that not everyone here can be a murderer. It's a prison of ten they sure as hell could all be murderers statistically speaking.

It's just not as unlikely as she's making it sound.

This might be their glitches voice line,

“You can’t be serious… They can’t be…” or “You can’t be serious… They can’t do…”

Star: Mayumi... doesn't seem as logical as she's trying to come off. Her logic would make sense if this was a normal 'setting'. But it's a very small group that have specifically been picked. So unless she knows any other connecting factors, she can't just presume that anyone isn't a murderer. Though her hidden quote is pretty ambiguous, since it could apply to both a court case or the discovery that someone has died.

Gunsli: They changed the autopsy report on her.

Star: -_- <- look of disappointment.

Thoughts on Voice Drama and Song

Gunsli: Mayumi isn't good at her job. Like she's a comedically bad lawyer. No wonder she couldn't as much as she says she could sway the court. I mean she fails to have any notable deductive reasoning skills and she isn't that charismatic. It doesn't seem as though she's that good with debate when talking within her voice drama either and she backs off too easily.

She just seems bad at this. Before even going into her music video.

I guess if it was a crime to be bad at your profession, then she deserves to be here. If those are Mugram's standards. Yet, failing to get your client off the hook and that client then being killed in jail isn't really a failing of the person defending that individual but the prison system. I don't consider things like that murder and never will. By that logic, the jury should be here as well. Because they're just as responsible, if not more so than this woman. Ya, know; since they decided to put that person there.

But let's talk about this real quick,

"So, don't even worry. I have the command and the proof in my hand. I'll make sure that these things will only sway in my favor."

Me when I lie. Mu Kusunoki core when she said,

"Hey, what if If I am a bad girl Don’t hate me. Don’t even try to proof from ��After Pain”."

As though there was no fucking evidence to be found there except there was an abundance of evidence.

This is the opposite of that. She's saying she has evidence when her best argument is did you see my client do it. As though the witness' eyesight has any bearing on any other evidence the prosecution may have outside of that witness. This doesn't even discredit that witness whom she admits was across the street so wouldn't have been able to get a clear look at the situation anyway.

“I have to ask.” Mayumi stands. “Witness, did you see my client actually go over to the store, rob it, and leave minutes after?" "Well, I didn't see her rob it, but the alarm–" The witness starts. "You didn't see her do it." Mayumi points out. "Yes, but–" The witness rubs their neck. "You were across the street from the store; how would you know it was her?" Mayumi stares at the witness, who now is uncomfortably shifting before they finally breathe. "If you don't have any answer, then I guess my line of questioning is over."

No wonder her client had to serve time.

Like I recognize that she may be trying to establish reasonable doubt while the witness is basically going,

"Why did your client run then?"

But the witness is right. Why did your client run? Why was their leave conveniently timed with when the alarm went off? It doesn't look good to leave as soon as the alarm goes off. The fact that her client did that is more concrete than her debate of,

"Well, did you catch her in 4k?"

No I fucking didn't because I don't have cameras for eyes what the fuck type of question. In fact even with just having her perspective on this case. I'd still come out of this thinking she's gullible and her client is lying. Because her client has every motivation to steal. Her client is just running the old question of is stealing okay if it's for a good reason. Such as is it okay to steal food, diapers, or medicine for your family.

And the answer to me is yes, as long as you don't get caught. Once you get caught, it's up to the system to decide if you get leniency or not. However, since her client is vehemently refusing to admit they stole anything, she can't even make the argument they were doing it for a good reason. An argument that might have afforded them more leniency. Because they clearly did it like that's not up for debate.

On top of that, what her client stole is conveniently omitted. Again, this is a display of her being bad at her job. Because that should have been a focus of discussion.

"Your Honor, this is an outrage.” Mayumi stands up. “Surely you can find some leeway–" “It’s clear to me that after all this back and forth what my stance will be.” The judge bangs a gavel and Mayumi swallows with a frown. Don’t condemn anything I say Because I swear I’ll make them pay “...is GUILTY of the charge of theft.” The judge announces.

Her client winding up guilty is the only reasonable outcome here. Since the judge can't give leeway if no additional context on the offenders' circumstances are given. Her entire defense was attempting to disprove the person you were defending did not do something you at a point suspect they did yourself.

What did you think the outcome would be here?

“But, she was clearly innocent!”

Mayumi denial isn't good.

Because if she was innocent, you are just a trash lawyer. I don't even have all the details of that case, and I think your client was guilty because they had the motivation to do it.

Something they do not hide from you,

"Okay, I need you to tell me. Be honest." Mayumi exhales. "Did you steal from the store?" "What?" The client shakes her head vigorously. "No, no! I wouldn't do that. I went there to grab some snacks and medication for my sister. I wouldn't rob the store! I have a job and I'm the only source of income for them and I can't leave them because then–"

What the fuck did she steal to go to prison?

Like where are they where theft is this severe of a charge? Alright, Larceny is punishable with jail time. It's not a long sentence like a max three months to a year. At least where I'm from, but that's still dependent on the price of goods stolen and how often one has been caught stealing.

Source: CriminalDefenseLawyer

However from how it's consistently described as theft and stated to have occurred in a store. What her client did is instead shoplifting or where I'm from retail fraud. Which to be honest has much more severe of a punishment depending on the degree which is again determined by the price of the items stolen,

Source: Law Office of John Freeman

So, pardon me for asking but what the fuck did her "very innocent" client "allegedly" in her opinion steal? Like I hate to sound like I'm on the side of the prosecution here but I kind of am. Because Mayumi's entire defense is,

"My client didn't do this trust. Your honor my clients vibes are immaculate."

Which isn't good enough.

Still not guilty because I judge murders not oh there's this thing I feel bad about. If anything- the judge should be in here, not her, but still... This entire case is weird. Also, if Mayumi viewed this individual as innocent and I can poke an egregious amount of holes into why that may clearly not be the case it certainly doesn't make me trust her words on the other prisoners. Because she's a comedically bad judge of character.

Star: She comes off as very naïve. Both in terms of how much faith she seemed to have in her client and how she claimed she was going to get said client no jail time, without even bringing up motivation as a potential way to get leeway. She also didn't bring up the idea of a plea deal at any point, which didn't help her client's case. Though this isn't too surprising, given her attitude concerning the prisoners in Mugram. Assuming no one here could possibly be a murderer is a very heavy assumption to make. Doubly so when you decide to act as the advocate to get everyone out based on said assumption.

002: Masaru Iwai

Gunsli: I dare him to incriminate himself. I double-dog dare him to admit what he did on the mic. Only a chicken wouldn't do it. I bet he's too much of a coward to follow through. A real man takes any dare. But his file is right he's all bark, no bite- All kid, no man.

Possible glitchesd voiceline,

“SHIT! FUCK! This wasn’t supposed to happen! We should have left when we saw them – DAMN IT!”

Ha-ha loser did a dare and killed someone. Ha, ha point and laugh at the guy who makes poor life choices at the age of- NINETEEN. Ha that's ridiculous. That actually makes it so much funnier that's exactly what someone like that would be doing at that age.

Star: He's fun! I like him :- D. Should probably work on how headstrong he is though, that's gonna keep getting him in trouble.

Thoughts on Voice Drama and Song

Gunsli: Oh the restraint thing is interesting also the way he's describing this bet thing reminds me of the movie Nerve. That was a pretty fun movie I might watch that again.

Oh wait yeah back to this guy.

Star: It is interesting that mugram has a an in canon reason as to why the prisoners don't leave the interrogation.

Gunsli: I'm going to say this before I even read the song thing- If he's a bad gambler this is going to be hilarious. Mugram is just incarcerating people for being bad at their chosen occupations. Huh it's not good to cheat in card games.

These games are already incredibly predatory without this guy counting cards and bringing spares on him to up his chances. He's a shitty person. The casino already does what he's doing. So maybe he justifies his actions with that. Yet, that only works when he's betting in those areas. He seems to be betting with friends repeatedly and taking their money to the point of financially ruining them.

It doesn't shy away from that either, and it's not even like he's playing fair. Is it really a gamble when you always have an ace up your sleeve? But it doesn't seem like people are too bothered by his consistent winning.

Since two player call him on his bluff,

"The final two players call and Masaru smiles."

Call means to match a players raise. So it's not like they folded, which would have been pulling out entirely. This is usually why people raise to make the more risk-averse pull out.

This is also the reason Masaru states he raised,

"Was it a good idea to raise the betting amount? He wasn't entirely sure, but it would at least weed out the ones who didn't want to be here. It was a little of a bluff, anyways. Glancing at his cards one final time, he exhales and stares across the table at someone."

To know for sure what he's doing here we'd need to figure out what he's playing. Which is impossible to discern because it's going by both blackjack and poker rules. Where Masaru seems to be playing poker and the other person with a five and ace is playing blackjack. Because there's no case in which one person in a poker game has only two cards.

So, what's more than likely happened is him and his friends were rigging casino games for quick cash.

They all played at different tables. They did this to save up money and may have probably split it amongst themselves. That or something went egregiously wrong when it came to describing these card games, but barring that being the solution-

There's evidence that Masaru and his friends are just running a casino scam.

Sorry, got distracted playing poker and blackjack with my father. But yeah him and his friends seem to be cheating at the casino.

He brings extra decks to add cards to the game if he's lagging behind,

"He looks around the room and walks back to his desk. He slides some boxes into his bag quickly and walks out of the door, shutting the door as he leaves."

This exchange implies his friends are in on it as well,

“Yeah, yeah. We know. You’ve told us many times.” One of the people who paid Masaru groans. “Seriously, I’m going to go bankrupt on this shit.” “Seriously? You should’ve just said. We’ll do a couple with you next time, dude.”

It's also highlighted that he grabs a box of cards from his bag during one of the games and he's shown doing card tricks. Him and his friends seem to frequent this place and could have ordered duplicate decks online or picked them up from somewhere else.

"Masaru instinctively ruffles through his bag to find what he had slid inside it earlier. A box of cards."

Masaru is implied to be better at this than his friends. Knowing when to toe the line and not draw too much attention to himself.

This can be seen here,

"He lays his cards out. Just a pair of normal cards, nothing special. Some show a similar hand, which isn’t too bad. There are a two people who both have a straight, which makes Masaru huff. Splitting the plot."

Only giving himself a good enough hand to stay in the game and split the pot. He's slowly building up to bigger wins as the game progresses. He does say in his voice drama that this is how he frequently makes his money and gambling isn't something that's consistently reliable unless someone is cheating.

His friends don't seem to be as good at it as he is though.

Since one of his friends says they're losing money and on the verge of going bankrupt- Which would have been a perfect time to go just don't play then it's luck based and if you're not winning you just aren't winning. Instead, they say they'll do a couple with them next time as though that could change the outcome. I mean, if they cheated successfully, then it could have changed his friends financial situation a good deal.

But it didn't work out that way; did it?

Instead, what seems to have happened was Masaru's associate was caught and pulled away from the table. Which could have led to all of them getting caught, his friend being arrested, or killed depending on the establishment and how it functions.

Still not direct murder. So, it's none of my personal concern how he decides to make his money and endanger his peers. They're all adults play stupid games win stupid prizes.

Star: Definitely cheating , though that isn't really surprising. With how confident he was making that bet in the interrogation.

003: Keisuke Izumi

“You should have known that wasn’t good for them. You should have known this wasn’t good for them. They’ve died because of you.”

Gunsli: Not to be that person but this guy kind of has the sort of personality I dislike. He seems like the sort to entrust things to others and then get mad when they don't turn out how he wanted. Sure he's trusting and cooperative but honestly it kind of comes off like he's only being that way so he can't be held accountable later.

The sort to say something like,

"I left it all to you! I trusted you to do this right-"

Or in this case you should have known. Nothing can ever really be his fault if he never commits to it himself.

Star: He kind of gives Muu vibes. At least in terms of how he seems to give leniency with the expectation that it will be returned to him. Idk if that makes sense though. Also it's interesting to note that whoever is writing these profiles up is unsure of Keisuke's gender- implying they are going off of an impression rather than any concrete data. This also implies it is J who is collating this information.

Thoughts on Voice Drama and Song

Gunsli: Oh, finally, someone who seems to actually have committed murder. Even then, it's kind of up in the air. Seems my first impression was right. He's someone who kind of just hocks things he could very well do himself on other people without putting much regard into the scope of what he's asking for.

If no one is speaking up about an incident then there's not much an authority figure can do about it. They're not all powerful and omnipotent. They can't punish students for things. They haven't witnessed themselves or based on hearsay from other students who weren't involved with the incident and refuse to get directly involved. This teachers hands are literally tied. So, unless he's doing something completely irresponsible like having the person doing the bullying look into it because maybe they don't know it's them doing it I don't see how the teacher is to blame.

Saying I thought you'd do something about this is as good as the teacher telling him,

"Hey if you really care about your friend I'd think you'd do something about it."

However, the teacher has to be a professional and just say,

"None of the students are discussing things with me honestly. So, until they do there's very little I can personally do about the situation."

Which frankly is something this guy could have done himself. Since he's witnessed these altercations he should know the names of the parties involved by this point. So why didn't he do anything else before escalating the issue to further violence. There are so many things one can do before attacking someone else.

Plus it's not like what he did was self-defense. It just seems like he decided to attack someone to the point of killing them simply to stick to his word. It's like okay you kept your promises. That's not always a noble thing and there were probably other ways for him to keep that promise without harming another person. Now this is under the speculation that he did kill someone and not just harm them because that is the implication. However, I need to make it abundantly clear I don't feel bad for him nor do I like his attitude.

He decided to mindlessly obey and rely on authority figures to solve issues for him and wound up being complacent in what was going on within his school. Honestly, he's more responsible than his teacher. The teacher at least did what they said they would. This dude can't get mad because he knows the teacher is telling the truth.

Because he's accepted that his friend is lying and dragging out the situation longer than it needs to be. Tgis exchange implies he's accepted that this is his friends decision so who's really being shady and to blame,

He glances up after a couple of pages and spots someone walking over to him. “Hey!” The person immediately looks up before frowning. “Hey, Keisuke.” “You wanna talk? I saw what was happening earlier and–” Keisuke hops off the brick wall and walks over to the person. I'll trust you just for a little longer "I'm sorry." "Huh?" “I don’t want to talk about it. I know what you saw and I know you wanted me to talk about it, but–” “Look, I get it.” Keisuke sighs. “Don’t worry, okay?” “Got it.”

Also it's not like at any point he intervened either despite having opportunities too,

Keisuke begins to move away as the pitch darkness turns into the hallway of the school again. He glances over at the classroom door and stares at something. Someone inside notices him. "Hey, is your friend coming to save you?" Someone sneers. "W-wait, leave him out of this–" The person at the desk cries out. "Only if you do everything we say for the next day." "Fine.".

So, he just comes off as complacent.

He's just over here like,

"T3

"Teacher why aren't you doing anything?! You're supposed to be better than me because authorities are meant to protect people. Not other people there's nothing- I a person with no authority can do. So, I'm wiping my hands of any part in this. Plus, if I do a bad thing, it's not bad because I'm just keeping a promise. A promise you should have kept as an educational professional."

Likw okay brat. He really could have helped but,

"He's a kid, he's just a high schooler!"

I'm sorry I was in very anti-bullying schools, not because of the teachers but the students. Change starts with you sometimes. It just simply does. I got bullied because people told other people I was bullying them at points. Can you imagine someone coming up to you and bullying you like we don't tolerate your kind here- Bullies! And now you're just kind of here like getting bullied but also like wait a fucking second I'm not a bully- I'd bully me too if I thought that!

He could've thrown hands.

Other students didn't want to speak about the conflict get personally involved in the conflict then speak about it yourself. Fuck it, we can all go down together. Make it egregiously loud, get your parents involved be a problem that can't be ignored. Do it in the classroom if necessary. What the fuck is the teacher going to do to stop you? They can't even stop the other bullying. Be a disturbance. Make this teachers day hell until something is done.

This isn't the teacher's fault but this would give them something to work with and look into at least. Like if you give the teacher something to work with they're going to work with it. It's certainly more reasonable than murder!

Then being out here like,

"Oh teacher you aren't paying attention to this issue because every party involved is telling you there is no issue and that I'm a lying piece of shit. Something I know my friend is complicit in. Well I guess i just have to respect their choice."

This guy just seems like he doesn't want to get his hands dirty or in trouble unless he can get something out of it. Like in a I'll keep my word so you keep yours way. So, I don't feel bad for him or his circumstances because that's an asshole way to be.

Star: He seems like he's just trying to help for self satisfaction. And even then, only doing things that can be done passively. Granted, I might be biased because I already wasn't fond of this guy. Also, as Gunsli pointed out, he could have done more instead of relying on others.

004: Tomoko Shiratori

Gunsli: She seems nosey.

Star: I don't have much of a opinion on her.

Gunsli: Fair, not sure if this is right but-

This seems to be her glitched voiceline,

"How. How unaffected."

Thoughts on Voice Drama and Song

Gunsli: You know when you give people dirt on others it gets on you too. If she was so concerned about what her clients would do with the information she gave them then she should have been more careful. Saying I was just telling them the facts after can only get her so far. If she feels guilty about it then maybe don't work in trading and discovering other people's secrets.

She chose this occupation I don't feel bad for her.

This kind of just comes with the territory. So if it's just a case of her telling a wife her husband is cheating on her and that wife killing said husband. Yeah, it's not her problem and it's not murder. So, I don't care.

I just really don't care for indirect murders they bore me. It's like you could hail a taxi for someone or get them an uber thrn their driver could be a murderer. The driver could just decide that's what they want to do today. Does that suddenly make you responsible for how that person chooses to live their lives?

No.

Chances are she would have just hired another private investigator if Tomoko didn't do it. So I just don't care. This is a risk that can occur in her line of work if she doesn't like the risks and direct consequences of the profession she choose to go into get a different job.

That or actually do due diligence. If she believes a client of hers may wind up attacking the person they hired her to look into over the information you give them then just don't give them that information or alert the proper authorities of that risk. She didn't have to take such a sketchy job.

Again this is why i don't think of Milgram proper through an indirect lens it simply isn't murder. If someone didn't have the intent to kill another person and their actions didn't directly cause that persons death- I mean directly not in a domino effect or a butterfly flapped it's wings and a tornado formed way then that's not murder. That person is just living their normal life. The only participation awards for murder are accessories and abettors. Both of which are still more actively involved than this.

Star: Whether it counts as murder or not, she did not do due diligence. Furthermore, if she was really as suspicious of the job she was doing (as implied) she could have refused it, or put in any safeguarding measures.

005: Shun Minami

Gunsli: Not that concerned about her despite the warning. J is writing these and he's like three not the best judge of character a three year old rabbit or person. It's just like they seem to be hiding something I think you should vote everyone innocent they don't seem like they could do anything wrong. Alright buddy pick a lane.

Star: She kinda reminds me of that one Vocaloid song Super Hero

Ummm...I think it's this,

"Yes, it’s been done. Good we even now."

Thoughts on Voice Drama and Song

Gunsli: I didn't vote on them or any of the characters before Daiki- who I just voted guilty for no reason. But it's not his turn yet I thought it was but no this is someone else. Ahn they killed someone and it was for money but uh you're the jobs you choose. She doesn't particularly say they have to do this. I guess they could be lying because it starts on a stage with gun imagery but ends with her using a knife but uh that's none of my business really.

Again this just seems like one of those cases where enough isn't really known. So, I guess they deserved that 50/50.

Star: ... huh. Was she asked to kill the guy in the previous case?

Gunsli: Well there was a knife stabbing at the end of that so maybe. Damn the private investigators negligence really had a domino effect huh?

There's a quiet laugh and a stabbing noise.

Huh being shit at your job just does that I guess. Maybe next time investigate your clients. Because she didn't even know if that person was actually the others wife or not. So she could have just been hired to stalk someone for somebody else.

Star: It does seem like they dithered on whether they should kill him or not. Though I am curious what they'd need the money for.

Gunsli: I mean not to sound unsympathetic but a crime is crime regardless of one's personal motivations. No one really thinks about crimes objectively just in terms of what they find relatable or morally just themselves. It's kind of why so many cases of similar caliber have such varying verdicts. Put a criminal on a stand that a jury can't project upon and the more likely they are to actually wind up Guilty.

Even Es is only being nice to Shun because they were nice to him. That's the only reason he thinks they couldn't have done that. That's just how fickle the judgments of people are.

Star: Definitely, yeah. Though, to be fair, I'm just curious about it because this seems like a lot of effort to go through to get money. But that contrasts with the seeming delay of the killing.

Gunsli: I mean she went through a lot of effort to not get a real job and instead make money off of ending the lives of others. Furthermore she said she's only killed one person but in the song extraction the person says they took longer on this job implying they've done more.

So she just seems dishonest.

"Hey, you spent a long time getting this contract complete. Why?" The man asks, placing his head on his hand, his smirk still on his face.

I mean I'm curious about why she would need the money as well. But- again everyone here choose the ways they wanted to make money and live their lives for better or worse.

I just can't bring myself to feel that bad for them.

Star: Yeah, I agree with that. Which is why I'm just curious, not particularly sympathetic.

Gunsli: Ah, fair I thought I was being a bit too harsh on them but this is one of those not my business scenarios. So, I'm glad I didn't vote on it. Like I don't particularly feel like it's really good or really bad.

The situation is just there.

Star: Yeah. It's not really something to judge, especially at this point. Like they were hired. If she didn't do it, someone else would have. Which may be cynical, but it is what it is.

Gunsli: Hey it's just business at that point, baby. Either you're getting that bag or someone else is. So, I feel you there Star. His death certificate was pretty much signed and sealed the last thing it needed to be was delivered.

The saying is don't shot the messenger not the messenger can't shot you bang, bang.

006: Daiki Kawaguchi

Gunsli: Oh hey a dude to bully. I voted this guy guilty I had no reason to. I just heard everyone was innocent so far and that's pretty boring. It doesn't really matter he seems to be innocent anyway.

Star: He seems pretty defensive. Partially because he mentions that he's an office worker then immediately backpedals-

"I work in an office, but I really don't know if you care too much about that."

-and because he literally tells the listener to not say he's in the wrong.

Now onto the glitched voice line,

"I need to get her/him back, damn it!"

List of unnecessary/unlikely variations~

I need to get her/him back, fuck it! I need to get her/him back, need it! I need to get her/him back, kill it! I need to get her/him back, mash it! I need to get her/him back, cook it! I need to get her/him back, burn it! I need to get her/him back, tear it! I need to get her/him back, slap it! I need to get her/him back, hurt it! I need to get her/him back, roll it! I need to get her/him back, boop it! I need to get her/him back, will it! I need to get her/him back, wish it! I need to get her/him back, free it! I need to get her/him back, read it! I need to get her/him back, turn it! I need to get her/him back, tell it!

Gunsli: And that’s what Daiki did that day in exactly that order. It was fucked up what he did and those people will never be the same. The witnesses will need a lifetime of therapy. There’s nothing that can make them unsee what they just saw.

This man should not be allowed to cook.

Star: We think it's the first one, but we ended up doing all the rest of them because of the lack of known letters on that word.

Thoughts on Voice Drama and Song

Gunsli: I voted this person Guilty his thing hasn't ended yet I think. Which is probably good because I was just being a bitch if I'm being honest. I didn't even know who he was or what he did yet. I was just doing it for chaos reasons. But ya know I'll argue anything so let me just hope they suck real quick.

Damn I'm glad he sucks.

He is his own worst advocate. Like got damn I picked a good person to vote guilty. Oh cool fuck cops. Good enough reason I didn't need more but like I said with Kazui ACAB is a state of mind. It overwrites everything fuck this guy. I mean maybe he isn't a cop. He stole information from the police station and dishonorable discharge can be related to the military.

So maybe it's that but like he still sucks.

Like I know his sister is missing and maybe one of the kids here killed her can't say who. But ya know throw a dart a board I'd wager maybe Mia because people keep highlighting she's harmless and Izumi seems to have killed a guy.

Plus this dude keeps highlighting there are kids here and that may be because they're around his sisters age.

Or maybe Es is right and he did kill his sister and just doesn't remember doing it.

Star: Yeah, definitely defensive. Also, would be fucked up if Tomoko was the person who got the extra info he found-he feels very sketch though, even if we know he's trying to find someone.

007: Isamu Takao

Gunsli: On principle I distrust people who are super adamant about not meaning to be somewhere. Because if you really weren't meant to be here you wouldn't be.

This isn't like real life where false imprisonments happen. Maybe that is something that can happen in Mugram but that would be a structural issue at that point. Especial if they really did nothing.

But it seems like he did something to me.

Star: He's... interesting. They feel a bit suspicious, but that might be because his mannerisms feel reminiscent of how Mikoto tends to try and blow off stuff to avoid any potential wrong he's done.

Glitched line seems to be this,

"Ah-No, no, this wasn’t supposed to happen-" or "It– No, no, this wasn’t supposed to happen–"

Gunsli: Not the words of the most uninvolved party in the world.

008: Mia Fukuda

Gunsli: You ever not trust someone solely based on how they carry themselves and the color they're wearing. This is one of those cases.

I haven't read a thing yet and I just don't like her. That probably says something about me. Like I don't like the nervous quiet character trope. Which I don't. That's one of the reasons I'm still not that fond of Haruka.

So, the characterization is characterizing I just hate this personality type.

I literally typed this before reading her description saying she's nervous. So again the characterization is characterizing. Damn life is testing me she's a Pisces...

Unfortunate we share a sign...

Star: I don't really know what to think of her. So I'll just wait till I see more of how they interact with people in general before coming to a full decision.

This is her glitched voice line,

"I’m sorry."

Gunsli: Ahn... this is going to be one of those situations where I have to abstain simply because I just don't like her.

Those come up from time to time. Maybe I'll change my mind when I find out more about her but for now... Mmm nah.

No, I think I'm good.

009: Ryuu Seki

Gunsli: Bitch that's not how patient-doctor confidentiality works. You are in jail the existence of that does not stop your from being interrogated if a crime has taken place in which your or your patients are incriminated.

What type of bullshit? He just came here and lied. Well we at least know you killed a patient now.

Like the fact that he said this is more incriminating. We could have assumed it didn't even involve his job. But, he just made it abundantly clear it does in one statement.

So at this point he was either assisting his patients with suicide which in some places is against the law or killing his patience then claiming it was assisted suicide. However since he brings up patient-doctor confidentiality there's an implied sense of agreement or discussion between patient and doctor.

He could just be a liar though.

I don't trust him much at all since he started off on an untrustworthy note by lying about how patient-doctor confidentiality works.

Star: I don't trust him as far as I could throw him. And I greatly dislike him to boot. His whole quote about being a doctor and how that makes it easier to make hard decisions is. Incredibly suspicious. Not to mention an egregious leap of logic to begin with. It ends up coming off as though he's saying all this to gain a position of power/authority. Also, as Gunsli brought up, that isn't really how doctor-patient confidentiality works. It's also a common misconception that it is that people don't really look into. All of that makes it feel like he's lying about being a doctor in general.

010: Sora Mochizuki

Gunsli: Seems like an average engineer. From what she said she may be pretty well known outside of Mugram.

At least this comment implies that,

"Oh, funny thing. I didn’t know no one knew who I was."

Star: Can't really think of anything to say about her. She doesn't say anything noteworthy.

"It... It’s good." or "Ah...It's good."

#gunsli rambles

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stagehunt · 5 months ago

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more thoughts on aven and topaz and why i don't really interpret them as having the close relationship that i see a lot of in the fandom + his general feelings about her. talking about the checking out quest a little in the beginning.

screenshots from my own transcript but they're still word for word. aven is more than aware that the tb is never going to accept a job offer from the ipc and treats this entire exchange as the joke that is, and an excuse to get under topaz' skin a little. just for fun. interesting then, how topaz immediately starts to get very personal during this little debate — while simultaneously displaying how well she actually knows aven, which is honestly not at all. i wouldn't blame this on a lack of understanding on her part, but on the way aven keeps everyone at arms distance, a distinct lack of trust in her from aven, and radically different outlooks on their work and life.

both of the dialogue excerpts kind of highlight that but i want to focus on the second one here because it immediately reminded me of a personal headcanon when i was playing the quest through.

so. i'd already made the assumption that aven didn't have many staff working under him — both because of his treatment within the ipc / the varying reactions to who he is and his history with the previous aventurine which is pretty much public knowledge, his preference for working solo, and his habits of putting himself in harms way and taking very unreasonable risks. he'd assume that topaz sees these " work habits " she mentions as the main reason that people don't work to him but he also knows that she isn't foolish enough to think that's the only reason anyway. which is why he then immediately reminds her that diamond doesn't particularly care WHAT he does so long as he secures the bag at the end of the day.

it's for things like this, and her general hostility towards him ( which does seem to vary, but her voice line about him is very harsh as opposed to what she tells us about him when she knows he's around / how she acts to his face ) and with the sheer amount of manipulation she's under, the things she genuinely believes about the ipc and her job there, he does personally think that it's impossible for her not to have absorbed at least some of the ipc's common opinions on him, the avgin + avgin extinction event / ipc's involvement on sigonia, and the egyhazo - aventurine case, and allowed them to colour her impression of him before really getting to know him.

however as i mentioned in those disc screenshots, aven is obviously aware of the predatory nature of the ipc. he's been working there for almost a decade now, he was a teenager when he first wound up there, and he understands what happened on topaz' planet very well. he understands that she's naive. he understands that she has been essentially groomed, as well as the fact that she's very dedicated to her work. but he also understands that she's a kind hearted person, and that she does try to do what she thinks is the right thing in most situations. it would be ridiculous for me to say that he doesn't sympathise with topaz, even if he does find her a little obnoxious and annoying to be around.

so while he doesn't necessarily feel enough responsibility towards her to put up with her apparent dislike for him, he does subtly keep an eye out for her. when she first became a stoneheart he figured that she should be able to understand his situation better than anyone and that it would make sense for them both to have each others backs as much as possible. but from what he's observed and how they interact with each other, he just cannot convince himself that it would be safe to trust her. he knows he'd have to be careful with his words around her, and that at least currently, she wouldn't ever choose him over the job. still, he has a feeling that if she were ever to open her eyes to what she is complicit in, she'd despise the truth and herself as much as he does, if not more for being so easily strung along by the likes of jade.

so are they friends? no. but if topaz ever genuinely needed help he would be there. he would understand.

#i'm not proof reading this before i disappear so i hope it makes sense #also not intending to step on anyone's toes here !!!#i'd love to plot things with topaz because they're so interesting to me and i'd really like to explore them actually #being there for each other #but this is drawn from my own interpretation of her + how she interacts with aven #🫶🏻#❝ 𝙘𝙝𝙖𝙧𝙖𝙘𝙩𝙚𝙧 𝙨𝙩𝙪𝙙𝙮 ♤*´. ── headcanon.

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subatoism · 3 years ago

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God okay so another thing that gets my gears turning is that one bit in Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges when Julian says he’s incapable of making a diagnosis by simply looking at a man, to which Sloan replies, ��Oh, your genetically enhanced friends determined that Gul Damar killed a woman just by watching him give a political speech. I’m sure you can do better than that.” Which he then very much does.

Because like,, up to this point in the series, I was kind of writing off the discrepancy between the abilities the other Augments have (learning Dominionese in one day, reading Damar’s entire backstory from his nonverbals, etc) and what we see from Julian both before and after Doctor Bashir, I Presume as purely a result of the writing problems that inevitably occur when you throw in a revelation like that so late in a show.

Which, yeah, I still think it is that. But in-universe, it makes the question of how Julian has so thoroughly managed to hide any signs of his augmentation this whole time much more immediate. Obviously this is something that a lot of other people have already examined, and probably more eloquently than I can, but I just want to work through my own thoughts on the topic.

So, assuming that Julian has roughly the same intellectual capacities as the other Augments, there are a couple possibilities:

[1] Julian is a brilliant actor. Since the very beginning of the show, he has been subtly playing up his own spotty observational/deductive skills in certain areas specifically to maintain his cover. This, of course, has profound implications for interpreting almost any scene he is in pre-DBIP (and particularly for all of his relationships with people who only ever see this persona). I mean god!! Confronting how complete an enigma the real Julian Bashir is if you accept this interpretation makes me feel insane.

But it also says something about all of his scenes after DBIP: That he can’t let it go. Can’t drop the façade, either because it’s ingrained habit to pretend or because he still believes (rightly or wrongly) that displaying his full potential will eventually lead to Starfleet changing its mind about letting him go free. Like, this guy is 3x more traumatized than he appears at any given moment.

[2] Julian intentionally avoids knowing/paying attention to things.

Not when it comes to medicine, for the most part. Sacrificing the well-being of a patient to keep his own secret is absolutely antithetical to his core values, and I’m unwilling to entertain the idea that his fundamental motives are a falsehood. At the very least, if he did ever hold himself back out of fear and put someone else at risk by doing so, it would eat him alive for the rest of his life. So that’s a whole ‘nother level of trauma that the show never gets a chance to address.

But, anyway, he avoids thinking too hard about what he’s capable of— forces himself not to think through problems that it would be suspicious for him to solve; possibly even denies himself access to information that it would be alarming for him to memorize too quickly which, given his deep curiosity and hunger for knowledge, would be an almost painful act of self-denial. And, again, this behavior is so ingrained that he keeps doing it even after his secret is out. He doesn’t even think to try doing what the other Augments have clearly demonstrated they can do (at least, not outside the events of Statistical Probabilities, which may have actually reinforced his self-limitation given how all that turned out).

So, yeah, both of these options are just absolutely fucking tragic and make me want to cry but I cannot stop thinking about either one.

#there’s actually a related third possibility I’m contemplating #but I’m doing a Thing with that so I won’t type it out here #anyway yeah #it’s Crying About Bashir hours I guess #ds9 #deep space nine

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dendrite-blues · 3 years ago

Photo

For a relatively short exchange, this scene is jam packed with characterization for Loki.

It’s also our first reliable look into what Loki was like before Thor 1. Not as described by others, but first hand and from his own mouth. I think that deserves a closer look, to see what we can learn about Loki and how he thinks.

This scene is significant because it tells us what Loki’s personality is like when he’s not running for his life. It tells us who he was before his trauma and what his core beliefs are underneath those layers of humor and bravado.

Better yet, since he’s alone we can assume that every line in this scene is presumably true, or at least Loki believes it to be true since he has no audience but himself.

The dialogue centers mostly around the statement “You deserve to be alone, and you always will be.” I’m not going to focus too much on the “alone” motif since I already dedicated an entire meta post to it.

What I think is more interesting about this scene is actually the looping, and the stages Loki goes through in trying to deal with it. There’s a lot of really interesting character traits on display in that progression.

Loop 1: A Warm Bath and Glass of Wine

The first loop entails Sif lecturing Loki about cutting her hair, kicking him in the balls, and storming away. Loki kneels on the floor and he gives us this great line:

“A bad memory prison? How quaint. Some punishment. I remember exactly what I did after that. I went and had a nice, hot bath and a glass of wine, and I never thought about it again. Because it was just a bit of fun.”

So we can take this to be Loki’s default reaction to pain and criticism. When put into an unexpected conflict without any forethought or outside influence, this is what he says/does.

1) Downplay the damage/threat. How quaint. 2) Dispel/soothe the emotion. Nice hot bath. 3) Minimize the impact. Never thought about it again. 4) Deflect responsibility. Just a bit of fun.

Keep those in mind as we move forward, since we’ll be using them to make sense of what else Loki says in this scene.

Loops 2 and 3: Okay, Sif, Hang On

This bit is about Loki realizing just how bad his predicament is.

L: Okay. Okay, Sif. Hang on. S: No, you hear this. You deserve to be alone... And I always will be. L: Alright, I get it. Listen. You are a reconstruction of a past event created by the organization that controls all of time. So you need to trust me and you need to help me escape. Yeah? S: Pathetic. (she kicks him again) L: (winces and groans)

As we all would expect from him, Loki’s first impulse is to try and talk his way out of it. What he says to achieve that goal is pretty revealing though. Because he doesn’t try to ease Sif’s upset by apologizing or explaining or offering to magic her hair back.

Any of these would have been more likely to save his nads in the given circumstance, right? The present threat is Sif, and she’s mad about what Loki did to her hair. But Loki doesn’t really see that. Rather, he treats her as a means to an end.

“So you need to trust me and you need to help me escape. Yeah?”

To me, that choice reveals something of a blind spot Loki has to the feelings of others. Even if he doesn’t actively like hurting people, he does prioritize their problems below his, and quite shamelessly. And at least on his first impulse, he doesn’t seem to feel much remorse or empathy for them.

Usually in fanon we attribute this callousness to his trauma. He’s learned that no one can be trusted and no one cares, and so he doesn’t allow himself to care for others.

But between his Loop 1 sentiment of “It was just a bit of fun” for an event which caused real hurt to Sif, and his Loop 2/3 behavior of “you, stop being mad and help ME” I think it’s reasonable to say that selfishness/low empathy are traits Loki possessed pre-trauma.

Loop 4-????: Happens Off Screen

It’s unclear how many times Loki loops while the camera is following Mobius, but the implication is clear that it was been many, many repetitions. Somewhere in this his denial and deflection must break, because we come back to a much humbler, more pleading Loki.

The Final Loop: I Crave Attention

S: You conniving, craven... L: Sif. Sif. S: ...pathetic worm. L: Please, please, no more. Please, I beg you. I'm a horrible person. I get it. I really am. I cut off your hair because I thought it'd be funny. And it's not. Uh... I crave attention... because I'm... a narcissist. And I suppose it's... It's because I'm scared of being alone.

HOOO BOY, so this is quite a tough bit to analyze. There’s a lot of interpretations you could make, and a lot of topics to delve into. For the sake of focus, I’m going to ignore the narcissism question. That one really needs an entire post, and I want to focus on something else here.

That being, Loki’s way of processing conflict/punishment.

I’ve always found it strange how Loki takes such pride in being called a liar and cheat when he simultaneously has this chip on his shoulder about how nobody likes him.

Those two traits don’t seem to play well together, and I always scratched my head over how they coexist in his character. If he wants people to be nicer to him, maybe he should stop antagonizing them? Yeah?

Well, here we’re finally given a clear reason. Loki craves attention, he hates being alone. So how does he avoid it? Pranks and mischief.

Fair enough.

But then, if all his pranks lead to this outcome--outrage, retaliation, insult--why doesn’t he ever learn? How is it that after 1000 years of this behavior, he hasn’t found a better way to get the attention he craves?

Loop 1: Downplay, dispel, minimize, deflect. He accepts zero accountability for the impact of his actions, and doesn’t think at all about how they affect other people. Just a bit of fun. I had a hot bath and a glass of wine, and never thought about it again.

The only reason he reaches the level of self awareness on display in the Final Loop is because the looping forces him to contemplate his actions and the impulses within him that lead to that behavior.

This is projection on my part, but to me he acts as though this kind of deep reflection is a new thing for him. He sounds like someone sharing a revelation that he’s just had about himself. We’re being shown that Loki is a man of action. He will always move forward if he can, possibly because looking back to so painful that he can’t bring himself to do it.

Circling back around to the pride Loki has for his knavery, let’s suppose that he’s been on this negative reinforcement cycle since childhood. He’s always acted out to get attention, then received retaliation and insults for it, and then pushed the bad feelings out of his mind with creature comforts and mental gymnastics.

What happens over time, when you’re being constantly told that you’re a pain in the ass and no one likes you? Most of us would take it to heart, but Loki doesn’t. He has a big ego, big enough to resist that constant barrage of hate coming at him.

So how does he marry these two conflicting realities?

He turns it into an identity, the God of Mischief.

In his head, Loki excuses himself of blame by shifting the culpability to his moniker. It’s not that he’s immature and petty, he’s just a “trickster.” It’s in his nature to cause trouble, so he can’t help it. You wouldn’t dangle a steak in front of a tiger and blame the tiger for striking, would you? And if other people can’t take a “joke” then that’s not his fault, that’s on them for not having a sense of humor. It was just a bit of fun.

Here we see the union of these two halves of Loki, the lonely ice runt and the mischievous scamp. (And a little bit of the original Loki who Thor accused of being incapable of growth!)

By refusing to think about others, and excusing himself from responsibility, Loki successfully preserves his self worth and insulates himself to most of the negative emotions he experiences.

Pain, embarrassment, and grief aren’t pointless emotions though. They are vital feelings that serve to regulate our behavior, and that push us to conform to the ways of our social circles. Without them, we annoy and upset others. Be annoying for long enough and you will eventually find yourself, well, alone. As Loki is.

Thus “Mischief” is a self-defeating loop, and Loki is just as caught in it as the cell Mobius trapped him in.

In order to be free of both traps, Loki has to stop running. He has to take a deeper look at himself and realize how much he is getting in his own way. The entire scene is one big parallel between these two “loops.” Pretty neat, huh?

Sadly these kinds of thought loops are really difficult to break, they’re buried so deeply in our personalities and habits that we usually don’t notice them until life forces us to address them.

The cell is Loki’s wake up call, and thankfully he does seem to rise to the occasion. He tells Sif quite clearly what his problem is, and he does it with beautiful, painful honesty.

Which is why it’s so fucking awesome for Mobius to acknowledge that, and to finally give Loki a taste of positive attention.

You don’t deserve to be alone. I believe you can be anything, even something good. Whatever you two did, it was powerful enough to bring this whole place down.

It’s a beautiful scene. Well written, meticulously acted. The clarity of vision in the pacing and shot selection, it’s really something special.

#loki spoilers #loki #mcu #mobius #meta #discussion #discourse #scene study #long post #sif #time loop #tva #character study

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getosboobies · 4 years ago

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reasons i think matchablossom is or has been canon!

once again, i have become overly obsessive and have throughly analysed each and every kaoru & kojiro scene that we currently have. i indulged and created my own list of “ are they besties or are they banging or both “ but i have decided to share it all with you :))

( keep in mind, i’m a reacher and these are just my interpretations. i will go to any extent to prove myself correct - no matter how unlikely )

so first of all, we have the fact cherry is the only one we have yet to see at joe’s restaurant after hours. this immediately shows that they are extremely comfortable with each other and spend a lot of time together even when they’re not skating. it also potentially suggests cherry is waiting for joe to go home, maybe a habit they’ve developed over time. before these scenes, the producers always show an image of the restaurants front door which states closed. by showing this frame, it obviously gives the impression it’s important for us to know that it is closed and therefore showings us that joe and cherry’s relationship is more than just some rivalry banta and that they have an established friendship built on trust and time. the creators could have just not shown that it was closed and had us assume that’s they were just good friends who spent time together but they went a whole step further and showed us these two men’s personal lives are somewhat intertwined with one another, showing us that they don’t have large boundaries for each other which would be considered strange in contrast to the “ arguing “ we had previously seen between them. if this isn’t enough for you, in these scenes we also see joes uniform unbuttoned so i take this as even more evidence of how comfortable they are around each other. also ! restaurants tend to close quite late ( avg. 8pm-12pm ) and on all the shots of the closed door, it has been dark outside. why wouldn’t cherry be home at this time settling down or something??? or maybe cherry has a lot of love for joe if he’s willing to wait that long for him to finish work... just sayin’. more on this, i analysed the restaurants design and noticed that the plug in the wall is really low down to the ground. maybe this is just one of joes odd design techniques or maybe it was specifically placed for cherry to charge carla, the concept of which, makes me very happy

keeping on the point of joe’s restaurant, whenever we have seen cherry inside he always sits right in front of the kitchen, this is pretty normal unless you think about 1) how much time he spends there 2) how busy restaurants get 3) he came there while he was with a colleague. we’ve already seen that cherry doesn’t mind coming after hours so why did he come during the day if he knew joe would be busy? this is similar to the fact he came in with his colleague in episode 2 - he obviously wasn’t expecting to be able to talk with joe while he was out for a work meal, so why on earth would he sit right in front of where joe would be, which is situated in a considerably inconvenient table for work meal? what i’ve interpreted from this is that cherry’s must enjoy being in joes presence. cherry canonically having anxiety would explain why he likes being close to someone who he knows well, and that cares for him. being able to see and hear joe so close is perhaps very relaxing for cherry.

now when i watched sk8 for the first time, i gather the impression that joe was a forgive and forget kinda guy when it came to someone who did him wrong. when we’re introduced to adam it’s evident there is some hostility within joe but this does not nearly compare to the anger cherry showed. when suggesting a beef their intentions seem to be completely different. cherry outrightly admitting to his grudge and anger for adam whereas joe seems to just want to prove a point to adam by winning against him ( i mean look at the image above, their facial expressions show it all ). but i noticed that as cherry would speak about adam, joe’s intentions slowly shifted and became far more serious and full of anger. “ there’s someone i’d like to punch “ is a sentence said by joe in episode 8. this is quite different to what we had seen in earlier episodes of him just wanting to make a point. i think this shift was predominantly when joe found cherry at the ocean view. joe knew how cherry was feeling towards adam BEFORE this scene because he knew where to find him, but the realisation that cherry was standing there, alone, and reliving some of his saddest memories probably hit joe that cherry couldn’t do this alone. therefore stepped up his game and met cherry’s loathing so they could do it together. as far as things go, this is one of the most important things they have done for each other because it shows clearly how devoted they are to each other.

this is one of the most confusing lines in this show thus far. i’m sure it’ll make sense in the oncoming episodes but i have come to two conclusions. so either adam has created this false reality of what happened and has told himself his evil ways stemmed from joe and cherry or, the more likely in my opinion, adam always felt like he was in need of a partner, a rival but also someone to love. this is displayed in the show in his predatory ways, aka, he wants his own ‘eve’. now there’s no ruling whatsoever that a skater needs any sort of dedicated rival, or skate partner, so i believe adam probably got this want from his peers, for example, joe and cherry. adam seems to believe you need to love your ‘eve’ and it gives me the idea that maybe he saw joe and cherry -in love- and decided that was what he wanted, but then as we know he went about it in an extremely toxic way. the “was it so“ was really hard to interpret, he’s clearly quite smug by the way he shrugs and smiles and shows that he’s very confident about what he’s saying but the question is short and leaves a lot unknown, which suggests why cherry and joe don’t respond. either they are as confused as i am, or they have a slight idea what adam could be suggesting and they feel guilty. we all know cherry and joe aren’t bad hearted people but as adam is insinuating ‘no, you guys parted ways from me first’ it could suggest that joe and cherry had perhaps become closer in high school and had developed a stronger bond than they had with adam and this left adam feeling lost and alone. this is more of a canon compliant headcanon that would make sense rather than a fact but it’s certainly something to think about.

one of the most obvious factors in their relationship is how they always know what the other is thinking or planning. we’ve seen in recent episodes that when cherry was racing, joe knew exactly what his motive was even without discussing it, thats enough information to show how well they truly know each other and how connected they really are. it’s also shown with cherry. when joe is racing, and is going extremely fast towards the corner, we see a frame of miya and shadow being worried for him, but then it shifts to cherry watching and there’s not a spec of worry on his face because he KNOWS what joe is planning and knows he will be fine. they know each other’s techniques better than anyone and it shows they don’t doubt each other’s choices one bit.

we learn right from the beginning that cherry and joe like to argue and fight, at first we think this is because they dislike each other but we learn that they are best friends. so when watching back you notice that none of the insults are ever actually insulting. let’s think about it, the most common insults they use are gorilla, dimwit and four-eyes. now to me, none of these actually seem insulting whatsoever and even if they do like to argue a lot it’s obvious they never ever mean any harm to one another.

from analysing the scenes one of the things i’ve noticed the most is how cherry and joe turn up and leave together. when the cops came during the langa x adam skate they both started to run off together leaving everyone else behind. as we know, they spend a lot of their personal lives together but leaving and turning up together every single time we’ve see them there seems like they’re a bit more attached than i originally thought. there’s a chance they meet before hand but why always that late at night? why aren’t they ever at home alone? unless...they live together. i mean it’s a perfectly valid suspicion right now as we’ve never seen either of their homes and we’ve never seen either of them turn up anywhere alone but either way it confirms they spend an awful lot of time together in general life. going back to my original point of them not only turning up and leaving together but they also never leave each other’s sides. there’s a heap of frames that you can see them standing together watching a beef or even just them talking. they’re literally attached at the hip and nothing makes me happier.

the creators of the show have made countless points to show that joe and cherry have a lot of history. from the school references to the fact they have TRAVELLED THE WORLD TOGETHER. they could have just shown one or two so we know that as a general fact they’ve known each other a long time but they bring it up an awful lot for it to be just a general fact. this being shown so much let’s us know that this is important information and that they’ve obviously wanting to lay down a foundation to bring something crucial up. so far they have mentioned their social studies trip, a school excursion, joes love for haunted houses, holiday to La and the Paris bar they went to. now you might be thinking, oh they were in the same school they probably just went on a trip together nothing confirms they were close, well i am here to prove that statement false. joe said he found cherry’s wallet, this not only shows that joe was close to cherry when he lost it but also that he knew where to find it, showing how well he knew cherry. another point is that legal age to drink in Paris is 18 so unless they had fake ID it’s safe to say this is a trip they’ve done since becoming adults and leaving school. it’s also canon that have gone together, so the fact they’ve been travelling as adults together is quite interesting. same with the restaurant in LA, sounds kinda like a date.

over the course of the episodes we’ve seen so far there has been a few comments they have made to each other that suggest a little bit of jealousy. for cherry, these comments are made in episode 6 in the hot spring. cherry brings up joes love for haunted houses and then joe agrees and says it’s because “chicks get scared and grab onto me” * with a smirk *. now what’s interesting about this is cherry’s response. “you really are a scumbag” this insult feels a lot more insulting than usual and the response itself surprised me. at this moment cherry looks away from joe which is an action people tend to do when they’re hurt or pissed off. either works in this scenario but neither make much sense as we know cherry’s already aware of joes status with girls. so why was he mad? well this was obviously a fond memory of cherry’s and joe replying with a statement about girls probably made him a bit angry because that was supposed to be their memory. but joes smirk with the comment makes me rethink, did he state that on purpose to make cherry jealous? obviously we can’t be sure but the entire encounter left me a bit confused. now onto joes jealousy, in episode 2 dub joe says “dude, you’re talking to a machine?” now in context this seems like joe is partially bewildered by the fact cherry is casually talking to his AI skateboard but he also seems slightly jealous that cherry is talking to carla instead of talking to him. this is one of the only scenes where joes facial expressions actually seem insulted rather than just having a bit of fun. he follows this up with “figured you’d give your board a girls name seeing as you can’t get a real one!” why can’t he get a real one? we hear tonnes of girls screaming compliments at cherry when he turns up so he definitely could get a girlfriend if he wanted, and joe no doubt knows this too, so why would he use it as an insult? i’m not sure what to make of this but it’s got to be a factor somewhere.

more on the haunted mansion chit chat, the line about chicks grabbing onto joe is quite funny when you look at the entire scene, because as soon as they get jumped they grabbed onto each other in fear. seems a little ironic if i do say so myself.

they both seem very secluded about their personal lives. cherry more specifically does not like the use of his skate name in his personal life or vice versa. joe is the only one we have seen to be aware or use cherry’s real name. the way joe slips up and calls cherry ‘kaoru’ at “S” shows how close they are and how much time they spend together to be able to accidentally mix up the two parts of their lives. this is just an extra point on how conjoined their lives must really be. in the photo above we see how cherry easily calms joe down when he starts to get annoyed. joe is the only one who knows fully about cherry’s life as emotions and cherry is the same for joe.

now one of the most heart wrenching matcha blossom scenes is when joe finds cherry at the ocean view. i have a lot to say about this so let’s start at the beginning. first of all, joe noticed cherry was missing. it’s not like cherry was there for a massive amount of time, so joe noticing that cherry was gone for even as much as an hour or two really says a lot about the placement they have in each other’s lives. there was really no reason for joe to worry about where cherry was considering they’re grown adults but he continued to go out and find him anyways. this is also set in the late afternoon judging by the sky, whereas the previous scene had been set at night at “s”, so this is suggesting the ocean view scene is on a completely different normal day for them (another factor showing how much time they spend together). next, the fact joe knew exactly where to find cherry. this truly shows how much they know and how connected they are to each other but also how well they understand the others coping mechanisms. cherry was dwelling on memories from 7 years ago and yet joe still knew exactly what he was doing and what he was thinking about. plus cherry didn’t even seem surprised when joe turns up. but one thing i noticed is that in this scene is the way they (in this case, didn’t) hold eye contact. while cherry is faced away, joe is staring at him but as soon as cherry meets joes eyes, joe turns away. either joe didn’t want to be caught staring or joe realised something crucial in that moment. i’ll let your mind decide what that is.

obviously, miyas comment about joe and cherry being his parents is a light hearted joke just to ruin joes chances of flirting with girls but it also implies that the group can tell that joe and cherry are respectively closer than anyone originally thought and they perhaps have caught on that the tension between them is a little bit too gay to be just a bit of banta. obviously in this scene we then see joe looking at cherry’s legs while a blush clearly intensifies on his face. yeah no, this is self explanatory.

one of the things i like about joe and cherry’s relationship is the fact that within that joe also has a somewhat dynamic with carla. although carla is non-living, there has been several interactions between them. for example the beginning of episode 6 on the boat joe recognises carlas voice immediately. i mean straight off i think it’s suspicious as hell that they all happened to be going there at the same time but the fact joe realised cherry must be there because of the sound of an AI skateboard? that’s impressive. also, at the beginning of the series carla is aware of who joe is when calling joe an imbecile, this shows that cherry has obviously had this modified to specifically refer to joe as joe rather than just refer to him as a general person.

there was a popular tiktok i saw the other day (if anyone has the username of the person please tell me so i can credit them!!) and it showed the two images above. in these photos it shows joes skateboard and his odd looking wheels. the creator of this video further analysed that these reflect the general outlook of a cherry blossom flower. though the actual wheels in real life don’t look as similar to a flower as they do in the show. but now if this is what they’re meant to look like, this is a really sentimental fact and shows how highly joe thinks of cherry in his skating career. but what about his personal life? well that’s where my analysing comes in. i noticed in the dessert joe makes in episode 5 he had a range of fruits displayed on the top as well as a single flower. this flower looks identical to a cherry blossom. once again the reflection of cherry within joes life makes an appearance. we’ve seen that flowers actually mean something in this show (toxic example but adam’s red roses for langa) so it would make sense for this to actually mean something about their relationship. i studied a range of Japanese desserts and, although every chef works differently, most of the dishes tend to only have a display of fruits and no flowers. so i have come to the conclusion that this dish certainly had some symbolism to cherry in joes life, some way or another.

so overall, their dynamic already shows that they have a very thin and mistakable line between very close best friends and potential lovers. although some of this was based off personal interpretation the majority is cinematic displays and general facts. so take this and use it however you like. let me know your opinions and other factors you have! for all i know i could be completely disproven with the next few episodes but surely if this many people see a bit more than just a friendship there’s got to be a reason for it.

if we can have one lgbt+ character... why not two more?

#written pre ep 9 #matcha blossom #matchablossom #sk8 cherry blossom #sk8 #sk8 the infinity #cherry blossom #joecherry #kaoru sakurayashiki #cherry #cherry blossom x joe #these bitches gay #call me obsessed i don’t care

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the-mistress-voice · 16 days ago

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so like there is a Funny Thing about Hong Lu's name his name (or well, Hong Lu part- Jia Baoyu/Baoyu is the actual Character Name's) actually comes from the title of the book- specifically, the Red Chamber (or well, it can be alternatively translated as Red Mansion)- though also context from the Limbus wiki adds that it also means precious jade (which is the same as Jia Baoyu)

now to give context for the theory, I will have to dive into the source material a bit- so Dream of the Red Chamber has another name, "The Story of the Stone"- this name relates to the framing narrative of the story so a funny thing about source Baoyu is that... he is the reincarnation of a sentient stone/piece of jade which wished to experience life as a human, and the framing narrative has it that the story was found carved into said stone After its time as a human

so in essence, this theory is the idea that Hong Lu is the Red Mansion (Jia household, presumably) in a human form

now why am I assuming that there is a Literal Red Colored Mansion??? well it shows up in his promo art, EGO art, and in the Surrendered Witnessing preview art

so in the theory, the idea is that the Red Mansion is the jade equivalent here- he is some sort of incarnation of the house. which means leads into a rather Funky interpretation of the source title, where the Mansion is the one dreaming (and put a pin in the whole "dreaming" aspect because I will Get to Canto 7 later on- this all started as a theory during the Intervallos) with that out of the way, here is a compilation of Strange Things That Hong Lu has said

first off, he has a habit of making these object personification-ish comments- this one is not one of the more notable instances, however

in Canto 6 he is the one to suggest that Wuthering Heights shifted layout. and he was indeed right!!! and well. as it turns out Cathy was Wuthering Heights. we have precedent for houses that are people already in Limbus

and then Hong Lu once proposed an interesting... "thought experiment"

it's possible... that this is potentially more about Hong Lu than it is Dante

there is also reason to think that potentially Hong Lu is inhuman in some way- for one thing, there is his whole sheltered thing, which while assumed to be because of his whole Rich Boy aspect, could be also him being clueless about Human Things

now this from the Abno log of Spiral of Contempt can be taken as he has Never Had to starve and not literally never experienced hunger before

however

now this honestly sounds like he has never felt hunger before joining the company. and Literally Here he is commenting on the sensation of feeling hungry in a way where it sounds like it's new to him. I think rich people would at least have Felt the sensation of hunger even if it's quelled quickly

his ally death voiceline also involves him wanting to ask the other Sinners what it's like to die

there is also K Corp Hong Lu.

he is. weirdly unbothered by being put into suspended animation and even gets BORED somehow like he is somehow still conscious when he should 100% NOT BE

and I have less to say on this but this is also interesting I think

now this once again Might just be rich person moment. but I would also add on that the comparison Is to a modification of well. something that is part of their physical body (hair)

only reason I put this here is because.... well it Is a little funny with the notion that as we have seen some butlers are bound to and more loyal to the estate than the family in the past

and the last thing I have to share before we reach Canto 7 issssssss... this moment from Timekilling Time

he is extremely casual about being frozen in time for A WHILE and is even disappointed about not getting it and now, before we get to Canto 7, I'm going to add in something I forgot to mention: the idea is that his wish is to experience life as a human or something along those lines

anyways now remember the "mansion dreaming of being human" idea? yeah we're at the Dream Ending

so Hong Lu might have a similar dual name thing going on like Sancho/Dondon has- where Hong Lu is his "jade" equivalent self's name versus Baoyu is his human name Canto 7 makes things interesting as it suggests that well. Hong Lu actually has a lot more insight on what Sancho was going through

first, there is this extremely Curious comment he makes about Dondon at the beginning:

I actually don't know what to make of this one I just thought it's of interest

and now.... we come to the Big One

I think he may be talking from experience here in the sense that prior to coming to Limbus Company he "woke up"- sorta like the reverse of Sancho

also probably worth including this too anyways also. we had Cathy as Wuthering Heights in Canto 6. And then Don Quixote (Senior) was the Wheel of LaManchaLand and LaManchaLand being made of blood. we have a pattern of Living Structure stuff going into the Surrendered Witnessing this, I believe, is the Entirety of Hong Lu House Theory

anyways tagging my friend whose observation of the whole Red Mansion name thing started this whole theory @mansion-read-memories

would anyone like to hear

Hong Lu House Theory™️

#limbus company #hong lu lcb #hong lu

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ac3id · 4 years ago

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The Artist and His Majesty| 18+

𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝒶𝓇𝓉𝒾𝓈𝓉 𝒶𝓃𝒹 𝒽𝒾𝓈 𝓂𝒶𝒿𝑒𝓈𝓉𝓎 0 / 5 | fantasy au.

chapter i , chapter ii

pairings: yandere! emperor! shigaraki x female! reader.

warnings: [series] dubcon, exhibitionism, size difference, degradation, masturbation, bondage, reader is also kind of delusional, death, violence (not on reader). (there are more but i can’t think right now.]

↪ for chapter 0: none !!

summary: you come to the big city in hopes of starting your career as an artist but things take a shocking turn when you’re recruited as the court painter for the royal palace.

↪ for chapter 0: a strange man approaches you, offering to buy your painting to which you oblige. little do you know that it kicks of a series of unfortunate events ending with you being trapped in shigaraki tomura’s clutches forever.

wordcount.

a/n: finally !! i started this series. high-key inspired by these two dresses in my wardrobe and @ana-list‘s this drawing ! seriously it’s literally everything. also thank you once again for proof reading this @the-grimm-writer !

taglist: @shigaraki-is-my-master, @deathmemeiverse, @n4dhii, @bat-eclecticwolfbouquet-love, @mstssister, @nereida19, @prince-zukohere [dm to be added/ removed.]

“That’s a beautiful painting,” a rough, scruffy voice calls out, jerking you away from your daydreams. Your grip around the color canvas resting in your arms tightens as you glance behind your shoulder to see a well-built man standing right behind you. He’s tall and a lot older than you, he has short grey hair which falls right before his eyebrows along beautiful, matching grey eyes. A cigar hangs lazily from his lips as he occasionally huffs on it, blowing clouds of smoke out his mouth. He’s dressed in expensive robes, a choice of style only people better off could afford. You can’t help exachaning a covetous glance between his expensive suit and your sloppy, knee-length, light green dress. “Thank you.” you murmur shoving him an appreciative look, hoping he’d leave you alone. When you come to the city to complete your studies in art, you mother, father, family and friends had warned you about men like these. Rich, snobby men who liked to lure in young, naive girls. Whispering praises of how they are the most unique on the planet so they pull their guard down form them to take advantage of the helpless beings.

“Can I take a better look? It’s the Emperor, is it not? Your painting. ” You hesitate before turning back to him. Not a lot of people had seen the King to be. He lived humbly in his castle, trying his best to not indulge in the affairs of the common people. “ Yes,” you hold up the slightly small canvas (courtesy of you being broke the entire week and not being able to save up to buy a bigger canvas). To even get an idea of Shigaraki Tomura, you had to go through many people. Not a lot of people had seen his face, he had always kept it hidden under a mask. No one knew why he did so but the many conspiracy throes suggested it was something to do with his personal grief.

You had heard many stories about him. Some made him look like a spoiled brat with a demeaning, ignorant personality who didn’t care for others and as the rumors said: self destructive habits which lead him to tear the skin of his own neck down whenever he got anxious or frustrated.

Others portrayed him as a strong, confident man and a reliable leader who cared for his comrades. You did not know which one of the two personas brought him your attention but you couldn’t complain. Tomura had caught you under a spell, and despite never meeting him (and knowing full well you never would), you were still ready to sacrifice your life for him. He was your King even before he had taken his crown, to you he looked like a shining bright light ready to enlighten you. To you, he was a god. And as years passed by, he grew from a caterpillar into a cocoon which was ready to burst open as a butterfly into the beautiful, mysterious world. And it was happening today, Prince Tomura Shigaraki’s Coronation ceremony. After the passing of All For One, it was his turn to take the crown and fulfill his duty as the ruler of the nation

The entire city was busy, bustling with people. Families, friends and everyone in between gathered around the huge castle walls as they waited for the ceremony to begin. They waited patiently, filled with excitement and joy as they waited to catch a glimpse of the new great King. You were among them. You had come down to the centre of the city with your friends, waiting alongside many to catch a glimpse of the new ruler. The painting which nestled in your hand was something you were hoping to sell today, to a shop or anyone who wants to have it. It was a beautiful painting which had taken you several days to complete, and dare you say it, you were quite proud of it. From all the things you had heard about Tomura, you had managed to sketch him decently. Long white, wavy hair reaching till his shoulder, skin white as snow. He sat proudly on his throne wearing a cape with his vermillion eyes peering through your soul. His face was scarcely detailed as you did not have much idea about it but he still looked ethereal. With little scars running both his eyes and a comparatively larger one on his right. Chapped lips with even more scars running over them wildly, he was not conventionally attractive. No one would call him a pretty boy yet there was something more, something alluring which attracted you to him. His beauty was rare, not in the grasp of many but if it was grasped and held close to the heart, it was hard to let go off. And you found him attractive, very attractive.

The man took a good look at your painting, examining it carefully and for a second you really thought he had seen the mysterious Prince. “It’s quite similar to him,” he sends you a friendly grin and you notice a tooth from his front missing, leaving an uncomfortable gap. “Have you seen him before?” he asked and you shake your head, no. He gives you an amused expression, “I must say, you are very talented, miss…?” you complete your name with a nervous smile. “And you are?” you ask.

You realised that you were getting a little too comfortable with the stranger and it could be a really bad decision but you can’t help but give him the benefit of the doubt as he behaves like a gentleman you can find yourself to trust. “Kagero Okuta but I like to go by Giran,” he says with a lop-sided grin. Giran, you’ve heard the name before but cannot recall where and how. It sounds so familiar but you just can’t grasp it, he looked wealthy so you assumed he was a Noble and that made you even more curious as to why he was speaking to you.

“What are you planning to do with that painting?” he asks, diving a closer look and admiring its features. “I must say, you’ve got it quite accurate but,” you stiffen, your hands growing cold as your heartbeat picks up. You realized your painting must have some complications, drawing a man you had never seen before purely out of your interpretation was a hard and a bold task to do. But to have someone who had actually seen the King for himself pinpoint your mistakes sent a rush of anxiety through your veins.

“He’s not that bony.” He completes and you gulp nervously, looking down at your painting in disappointment. Your eyes are filled with disappointment, all of the time and effort you spent making the piece all for it go in vain just because you missed a small detail. Giran notices your remorse and speaks up, “But that’s quite alright. He looked just like that until a while ago,” he hadn’t meant to offend or hurt you. He still believed your painting was the most beautiful thing he had seen all day.

“What do you mean?” you ponder, giving him a perplexed look. He leans in closer to you as if to tell a secret, “let’s say the King has been working out behind closed doors.” you blink in confusion. It was a strange thing to say, exactly how well did this man know the Emperor? Who was it that you were talking?

“Who are you?” you can’t help but question, bewildered by such a character. Giran says nothing. He just stares at you with his lips curled into a snappy smirk, holding his cigar between his lips. He was not going to tell you anything. Without wasting time, he quickly changes the topic. “What are you going to do with that painting?” he repeats, his voice growing impatient.

“I am planning to sell it,” you feel a bit taken back. The friendly aura which had Giran had now disappeared for a reason you could not conclude. “Sell it? To whom?” the intruding nature of his tone starts to make you uncomfortable, there’s nothing more you want to do other than get far away from him. Yet you still find yourself answering him, “To anyone who wants it.” he hums at your response, his eyes holding a mocking glint. “Wouldn’t you like to give it to the Emperor himself?” you frown, was he mocking you?

“That’s well...impossible.” you reply, stretching your neck awkwardly. “To you, maybe.”

You stop yourself from rolling your eyes, this man was really testing your patience. A part of you tells you to ignore him and walk away but as he reaches into his coat and pulls out a bag of coins worth much more than you could ever earn in a month, he has you hooked yet again.

“Hey, let me buy that painting, would yer’?”

“What is the problem now?” Giran takes a seat around the round table. It was late after the Coronation ceremony and the Royal palace was already facing problems. Giran was disappointed but definitely not surprised. After all, he was their personal problem solver and broker. “It’s not that big of a deal.” A curt and hard reply cut him off.

“It actually is, Shigaraki Tomura.” a voice speaks, coming from a man dressed in a black suit with a long, flowy robe covering his entire body. He stands taller than the other two men in the as his head is replaced with a wisp of smoke. He was none other than the trusted and talented magician of the Royal family. With eccentric features and an ability to wield strange magic, nobody knew where he came from. There were many rumors about him; that he was once a normal, handsome man cursed by a witch that turned him into a hideous monster or he simply was a ghost. “What is it, Kurogiri?” Giran rephrases his question, directing it to the other man. “We need a new painter,-”

“Servant.” Shigaraki corrected. He stood in front of the giant windows glancing over his city as his men talked about hiring a new painter for the castle. He couldn’t care less about such tedious tasks, he had his focus set on greater things like expanding his territory, taking back stolen land.

“What happened to Mr. Kyo?” Giran asked, Shigaraki rolled his eyes at the mention of the name and clicked his tongue, “His Majesty eliminated him.” Giran stops himself from laughing out loud. He was certain once Shigaraki would take over the throne incidents like so would double the instant. But he was expecting it to happen so soon. “And why was that?”

“He was breathing too loud, like you are right now.”

A cold silence broke over the room as Giran counted his breath. Kurogiri looked nervously at Shigaraki who still had his back turned to them. The longer the pause grew, the dreadful the atmosphere became. Shigaraki’s threat strung the air loud and clear and Giran was afraid to speak again. “What we are asking for is that-,” Kurogiri started in a calm, slow tone easing the tension in the room. “-we need a new court painter. Do you have any names?”

The murderous sent in the air magically disappeared as a grin stretched across Giran’s face.

“Aren’t you in luck?” He says, running a hand through his hair before taking a puff out of his cigar. “Does that mean you know someone?” Kurogiri questioned. Giran hummed, “You see, I met this beautiful painter today. She’s extremely talented and I know for a fact she will love working for the castle.”

“What’s the name?” growing impatient, Shigaraki asks. “Oh, it was,” Giran pauses for a moment to recall.

“Ah yes, Y/N L/N.”

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