#i guess? but its really just fandom discourse

[quadrantadvisor]

I feel like these days we get so much criticism of the dynamics in 2012 that the characters get kind of flattened by the fandom, so I wanna say that 2012 Raph is not just a one-dimensional bully character, he's got a lot more caring and emotional intelligence than he gets credit for. Yeah, he has an obvious protective streak, but even beyond that, he's always his brother's number one supporter, even when he disagrees with them.

He's highly critical of Mikey's desire to make human friends, but when Mikey goes out to do it anyways and it blows up in his face with Bradford, Raph is the one to comfort him and tell him he deserves better.

He thinks Donnie's crush on April is delusional, but helps him out at every chance he gets, removing Donnie from embarrassing situations of talking him up in front of April. When Casey comes into the picture, Raph tells him point blank that it doesn't matter that they're best friends, and it doesn't matter how bad Donnie's chances are, Raph's on Donnie's side in this.

And when Leo starts sneaking out to see Karai, Raph is the one who notices, tells him off, and tries to get him to stop. He doesn't tell anyone else, though. He wants Leo to make good choices, but he respects him enough to let him make bad ones without getting the rest of the family involved. They'd all be on Raph's side, but he doesn't need them to all gang up on Leo like that, even if he's not listening.

Basically, Raph cares about his brothers, including their emotional well-being, even when it's not obvious. And yeah we should criticize the writing and how harsh it gets and how there's no resolution to the ways certain characters are treated, but I get tired of seeing complex characters be villainized and sometimes I just wanna read fanfiction that is nice?????? So that's my thesis I guess lol

[dashiellqvverty]

having an actual copy of the newsies script in my hands is gonna make me insaneeee btw

[crimson--freak]

As an aro person, I’m not unfamiliar with the fact that canonically aspec characters are few and far between, but the way that some people regard people shipping arospec and acespec characters is kind of annoying.

Like you do realise that fanon shipping isn’t always going to reflect canon, right? Shippers aren’t erasing canonically aroace characters by shipping them with others. If characters are aroace in canon, they will most likely continue to be so* even if fans shipped them with other characters.

The way that some people regard aroace characters as “off-limits” from shipping when their orientations are confirmed in canon also ignores the fact that some (e.g. romance/sex favourable/indifferent, partnering, oriented, angled) aroace people do in fact choose to enter romantic/sexual relationships regardless of their orientation.

Also, fandom is pretty much built on non-canonical ships. Some of the largest early slash ships were between characters who were textually straight (or at least not textually percieved as non-straight). It didn’t matter if those ships didn’t become canon, because you can enjoy fanon/headcanons without wanting them to become canon!

I can of course agree though that fandoms are on the whole extremely amatonormative/allonormative, especially with tropes like “everyone has a soulmate” or “Pair the Spares” or “more than friends”, so it can be annoying to see canonically aroace characters treated in that way. However, this is a wider issue not just acertaining to fandom but to pretty much all popular media, so it would be unwise to blame only shippers for the abysmal lack of aspec representation. Instead of focusing on what characters “should” and “should not” be shipped together, maybe the focus should be on creating fandom communities where shipping is not the only goal.

*(of course, there is the problem of aroace characters’ identities being erased in canon, for example Jughead Jones from the Archie comics, but this was an unfortunately terrible choice made by the producers of Riverdale, not by fans of the Archie comics. There is a very significant difference between characters’ identites being erased in canon and fans making alternate fanon versions of characters, and I hope you all can recognise which is worse for aspec representation and knowledge of aspec experiences within wider culture.)

[bisexualdinahlance]

That post that's like, talking about a real phenomena in fandom spaces but then ends with a screenshot of someone saying that fandom got bad when "normies" got into fandom during COVID lockdown has been driving me nuts. Why are so many people reblogging it. Like yes there are things that used to be more common in fandom I miss but almost every post like this is just blatantly ahistorical to make fandom seem like some magical safe haven that outsiders are invading. I wish I could form more coherent thoughts on this but jfc the weird superiority some fandom folks have over non fandom folks is baffling

[bookwyrminspiration]

I think. I liked sokeefe more when it wasn’t canon. it’s fine, but it has gone from nice to meh to me now. just a thought

[peachypizzicato]

people who call the masc LIs bisexual but categorize nadia and portia as lesbians how does it feel to miss the entire point and also be like. wildly exclusionary

[scarysanctuary]

im a part of a lot of different fandoms, and for the most part its a nice experience, but then i see discourse about certain characters, and everyones interpretation of said character, and thats fine, i think the backbone of a good character is that theyre three dimensional, and some people will latch on to some of those dimensions more than others. but its always a little demoralizing when i see people engaging in discourse negatively and attacking other fans just because they interpret a character in a different way. 10 people can love the same character for 10 different reasons, and even if the version of the character they love isnt necessarily accurate or canon compliant, doesnt mean you should degrade or belittle them. i personally dont want to create an environment that cant engage openly and in a friendly manner, we are a part of fandom because we love it, can you please let people love the same things you love, even if they arent loving it in the same way you do?

[jeantism]

there's so much discourse about disco elysium on my dashboard that im not even sure disco elysium fans like disco elysium

i dont understand why this fandom is like cannibalizing itself

[toonfinatic]

Your post getting popular is both a blessing and a curse

[valtsv]

not sure if you’ve answered before, but what is your favorite video essay?

i have a collection

Control, Anatomy and the Legacy of the Haunted House by Jacob Geller (self explanatory but even after watching all his other video essays i still find this one the most compelling to return to over and over again. kind of like a haunted house you can never truly escape. i love the way that he blends media analysis and like. cultural and sociological history and discourses in general.)

We Need to Talk About Game of Thrones I Guess and The Last of the Game of Thrones Hot Takes by Lindsay Ellis (just... really good and hysterically funny critical analysis of how badly you can fuck up a story by not understanding its themes, worth a watch even if you've never seen a single episode of game of thrones in your life)

MsScribe: The Harry Potter Fandom's Greatest Con Artist by Eldena Doubleca5t (a brilliant deep dive into the msscribe incident which provides historical context for everything that happened and is also extremely funny; the tarot major arcana chapter break formatting is fucking genius)

Born Sexy Yesterday by Pop Culture Detective (had a massive impact on me and made me think more critically about media - in a good way!)

All of Overly Sarcastic Productions' Trope Talk videos are also very enjoyable and not too long

[bogkeep]

Would you recommend the SSSS comic? I know little of it beside the very beautiful artstyle and premise

to answer the question of if i would recommend SSSS as a comic: yes, yes i would.

a description for those who don't know: Stand Still Stay Silent is a post-apocalyptic horror + adventure webcomic set in the nordics (norway, sweden, denmark, finland, iceland) that have been isolated from the rest of the world and gone back to their old gods. the the world outside of safe zones is full of trolls and beasts - humans and mammals that got infected by a horrible virus and turned into monsters. the story follows a ragtag crew that ventures into the old world (derelict denmark) on an expedition to collect books.

the comic updated every workday until it concluded in 2022, and consists of two Adventures. the creator had plans for many adventures with these characters in this world, but ended it after two when she wanted to take a new direction with her life.

what i love about it:

- the art is GORGEOUS. it's been a huge source of inspiration for me. open any page and it's a masterpiece, and you will ask yourself "how the FUCK did she update this FIVE DAYS A WEEK"

- the characters are wonderful and endearing. i just, i love them so much. i am so thankful lalli hotakainen exists he is one of my #1 blorbos forever

- the world is so cool. the blend of chunky sci-fi and norse mythology fantasy magic slaps. it goes so hard. i fell so hard for this comic when i got to the big ferry ship with a viking style dragon head prow added to it. it's everything

- it really really gets nordic cultures. it's difficult to explain all the dynamics and nuances but it just gets it. it brings me as a scandinavian a lot of joy to read a story that speaks to my heart this way. the attitudes, the language barriers, the cultural differences... it was so refreshing to me in a media landscape dominated by american stories. when the pandemic hit, i decided to reread the comic because i found such an odd comfort in seeing how it depicted the scandinavian countries reacting to, well, a pandemic.

- there's kittycats

what i don't like about it:

- the most glaring and obvious flaw is that everyone in the comic is white. there's not a single character of color anywhere, not even i background shots or the prologue. there's no mention of the saami people (the indigenous people of northern europe), either. i believe this was done in ignorance more than malicious intent, but the implications are Extremely Bad and it's been bothering me (AND MANY OTHERS) since day 1. that is the number one caveat i will give to anyone wanting to check this comic out. i've been in the discourse trenches and i am not going to excuse this. it's just bad!

- you can tell in the middle of adventure 2 that the creator has kind of lost interest in the work, around the time when she found jesus i guess. like, very few people can keep up work on the same creative project for years and years and years and i think it's fine that she wanted to drop it, but it's a bit sad to see the comic dragged to its end like a limp corpse, and feeling like the creator no longer really cares about the characters.

- minna sundberg has said and done some questionable things, presumably gotten somewhat radicalised over time, and has also converted to hardcore christianity which is what her new works are about. there's nothing about this in SSSS - there is a moment of christianity represented in the story in a sort of mythological sense, just like the other religions, but this was written before minna's conversion. her new works... are a Choice. i have much to say about them, and i have, and im not gonna rehash it now.

SO YEAH hopefully this will help you take an Informed Choice! i got into this comic in 2015 and was deep in the fandom and it's for better or for worse part of my soul foundation now.

i also recommend A Redtail's Dream, minna's "practice comic" before SSSS, based on finnish mythology and the kalevala.

[lloydfrontera]

You know, regarding Lloyd's achievement in history and whether ordinary citizens know him or not made me crave post canon modern au.

Imagine seeing an in universe fanfic authors notes in ao3 or twitter crying about how they simply wanted to write a story set in Lloys time but they just keep diving into rabbit holes.

Kinda like

"So i was writing an historical au set in Alician era where the MC had a detour in Cremo and he was admiring a statue by the sea with a local explaining its history. Of course, I needed to do some research only to found out that Lloyd Frontera, YES, THAT Lloyd Frontera who made the Pantara railroad defeated some sea monster, nearly died and got statue for it"

Maybe someone from Beneto Kingdom being so confused because all he learned from history in school (Beneto history) is that Lloyd is just some brilliant engineer so he got specially confused on why in the movie he was watching set in Alician era is Lloyd fighting a goddamn bone dragon.

I'm interested on how scholars and political figures bemoan and analyse Lloyd's action and achievement but ordinary people's Internet discourse could be so much fun as well.

Javier and Lloyd getting the Alexander and Haphaestion treatment on whether they were lovers or not. The discourse would be so toxic lol.

oh my god forget changing the history of civil engineering forever, sparking the nastiest discourse ever on history/fandom internet forums is lloyd's true greatest achievement akshfksdg

he's the go to historical domain character used to set the time period for a historical movie/book/series. he's the guy writers insert to give their work a more period accurate vibe. everyone knows just enough about him to make really passionate history nerds very angry about all the inaccuracies and made up facts that are taken as common knowledge.

i'm thinking people of completely different online circles all knowing about lloyd in some capacity but regarding completely separate facets of his life and work and being so surprised when they accidentally find yet another whole field lloyd revolutionized. like.

a sword nerd who's really into the concept of the asrahan core technique and knows perfectly well that lloyd helped invent it getting gobsmacked about the fact that's the same guy that laid the ground for modern sewer systems.

a fan of historical romance stories who is used to seeing lloyd as a fun cameo in the background of stories set in the alician period being really confused when they open their book on thermodynamics and see there's a whole chapter dedicated to a method lloyd figured out to create ice without the need of magic.

a train enthusiast who is really fascinated by the rudimentary switchback system lloyd frontera implemented when the concept of a train wasn't even known in the empire being completely dumbfounded when their friends invite them to see a movie about that one time lloyd frontera and his knight defeated a knight of hell in namaran.

i think it's definitely a meme to post "so i was doing research for my asfahan au and went on a rabbit hole and guess who fucking built the qanat that's widely regarded as the only reason the kingdom didn't fall into civil war. take a wild fucking guess" "was it lloyd frontera" "IT WAS FUCKING LLOYD FRONTERA OF COURSE IT WAS"

i'm also certain there would be some guys who think he's overrated and people should really stop talking so much about him when there's so many other historical figures who are just as interesting and not as recognized 🙄. to which people immediately go "mad cause your history blorbo didn't defeat a bone dragon aren't you" at them

Javier and Lloyd getting the Alexander and Haphaestion treatment on whether they were lovers or not. The discourse would be so toxic lol.

they definitely get the alexander and hephaestion treatment you are so correct. they're also the achilles and patroclus of the modern magentano girlies. there's a bunch of 'queer retellings' of their lives. they're the go to example for homoerotic friendships. there's a bunch of edits that mix historical paintings of them with ship fanart with that 'history hates lovers' song playing over them. dudebros get really angry about it. llojavi truthers pull out their 20 pages long annotations that start with "they fucking slept in the same bedroom for years" and it only gets worse.

there's one poor person online who just really fucking wants to know how and why lloyd frontera changed faces one day out of the blue with no one ever explaining it. there's no official records. no member of the royal family ever made a statement about it. why is everyone acting like the frontera family didn't have one eldest son for 25-29 years and one day suddenly had a completely different one. what the fuck is going on.

so. yeah. i'm a little obsessed with this concept actually ajkshdksa

[leviismybby]

However, I don't know how to feel about Levi because of the real source material (Isayama interviews, smartpass story and side material like that…) and the 'professional' Japanese translators on this blog. I think he really is, according to the correct Japanese translations and Isayama interviews, he is really dragging humanity through the mud for his personal feelings… and he is someone who is floating and aimless because of Erwin's death… So much so that Isayama even thought of killing him many times because he didn't know what to do about him and threw him aside… also I guess he has no interest in women… oh and Ackerbond is probably real… I know it's not a canon ship and I know he's not in love, but that doesn't mean it's not written too reductively to Erwin. And it disgusts me…

Because of the source material, side material, canon discourse and Japanese translator blogs, my opinion of him is changing more and more and I think I will throw my LevixOc project in the trash… Levi is really someone who (because of Isayama's writing) has been hypnotized by Erwin's own goals and has taken control of Levi's entire character and actions. I don't think I could take him (or s/o) out of this hypnosis.

I know you can say "Isayama's opinions can change" or "only what is in the manga is canon" and I used to hide behind that for consolation, but I realized that once Isayama said it, it was true and it stayed there. And I think the interviews are necessary to understand the content of the scenes etc. in the manga.

Even analysis is no longer a comfort for me… after all, why need complicated writing when interviews and manga are the source of what really happened there…

I guess he's not the character I thought I wanted… I wish he was his own man… I wish he wasn't a character to be discarded just because he died because of another character… or someone who is too picky and only accepts high standards… (this is just my own opinion based on the manga and the material/opinions I think Canon!Levi would be like that)

I'm deeply disappointed… As delulu as the Eruri fandom is, most of what they say is unfortunately true… after all, they take real sources and cite them as evidence… I don't think they are mistranslating because there are professional cold-blooded translators in this fandom and most of them quote what that blog says…

I wish I had never encountered this fandom and this character, so I wouldn't have to be so upset all these years…

Except that half of the interviews are either fake, completely twisted or don't exist. Especially that flaoting ballon bullshit, which a lot of Japanese fans say wasn't even said.

I will this again, please read the manga on your own and base your opinions on Levi on your own.

Since you already mention Eruri and i might ruin your day here but Eruri is as canon and Levihan is, it isn't. No Levi never prirotized Erwin over humanity and you'll understand that if you read the manga for yourself and analyse it for yourself without letting the fandom get to you.

Levi is his own man, he has his brain to think with and the only people who think he doesn't are shippers. Not once did Levi put his own selfish desires before humanity for anyone, he was as sad about Erwin's death as he was for the rest of his comrads. Not a single instance in the manga/anime or any actual official interviews given by Isayama was Levi reduced to Erwin, only a shipper would think that way. Oh and Ackerbond thing too, not only is that damaging to Levi's character, it is just creppy and definitely not a thing.

I am sorry anon but it seems like you don't understand Levi and his character at all. Isayama always said that Erwin and Levi were equal and sworn friends, he didn't say that because he hid some sort of hidden romance between the two, he said it because that's how it is, its a strong bond of trust and commandership and reducing it only to "Oh Levi is a love sick puppy who only cares about Erwin." is a mischaractertion at max.

My advice to you is to take a break from the fandom is they are making you not like your oc x Levi anymore, that's the best way to get them out of your head and please, base your own opinions, not what people online say.

[kosmicdream]

my comics dont have a big fandom or anything, which has its pros and cons! (the cons are that i dont have as much money and i am attention starved at ALL times) but sometimes i try to imagine what discourse would happen if it did.. like obviously theres still discourse that still happens!! but it doesn't really develop/last the same way.. i dont think id handle big fandom discourse well, so its probably a good thing it isnt like that. but also i love drama and watching people fight abt my characters would probably be a bit entertaining. like the evil grinch aspect of me wants to see fandom wars.. although i guess its still very hard to imagine FFAK/NRD ever getting like "Big" you know. is that kind of thing still possible for webcomics?? i mean.. i guess??? im sure it happens? i dont know, im just thinkin' out loud. NRD is over 1000 pages long now, and soon NRD/FFAK combined will have over 10k pages. i have technically drawn over 10k pages if you add up ALL my comics.. but like just those two alone will have that many.. and what have i learned as a storyteller? at least one or two things i guess. i cannot be good at all the types of storytelling, but i can create psychosexual slapstick comedy horror dramas that make it difficult to recommend to your friends

[the-final-sif]

Every few days i see the most insane and funniest sh*t from dsmp or i guess mcyt in general? and it kinda makes me wanna just join in only for the chaos cause your posts has been HILARIOUS

Good for you guys i guess and to this dream guy, genuinely bless him for his patience cause everytime you post 'discourse' about him its the most crazy and stupidest thing i have seen

I'm glad I can provide it, and yeah, honestly as someone whose been around in fandom for quite awhile (shout out to anyone still following me from my homestuck days!), this shit is insane and so, so dumb. Not really unique, but still so dumb. I'm glad the outsiders can enjoy it.

[olderthannetfic]

i really hope this won't restart the anime wank. sorry in advance if it does. but the type of requests we've been getting about anime is kind of one of my problems with anime fandoms currently. yes, i would be the first one to say there are some (keyword: some!!) shonen animes with gay subtext but for the love of god not all of them have one! don't get me wrong i do love me some "me and my bro are a little gay" ship but believe it or not these characters can care about each other without being gay. It is frustrating to be on tumblr and trying to engage with the character and the only thing people care about him is whatever ship he's in. and i know... oh I know the irony of being on tumblr and being miffed by the gay shipping, but to be honest there's not much to choose from. reddit/tiktok/twitter sides of fandom are just plainly run by anime bros that are rude at best and hateful at worst if you disagree with their goated takes. not to mention i don't particularly enjoy being surrounded by anti shippers who run rampant on twitter with their precious "pro shippers DNI" in their bios, so the choice is mostly tumblr when I want to be in a fandom where character analysis is deeper than the powerscaling discourse. but the flip side of that is yeah, mostly stuff is about shipping and fanon mischaracterizations, and there literally is an analysis out there with 3k notes that is out there soooo removed from the canon that is just... uh. Its just seems like peoplle dont meet the manga/anime where it is without first boxing it into a subtext of choice.

I guess what I'm looking for is the depth of understanding the canon that some reddit communities have, and the sense of inclusivity that tumblr has and an ability to differentiate fanon/shipping from the actual canon. Which is impossible! I know! I am the issue. I'm at wandy's looking for sushi.

Thanks for coming to my internal screaming session.

--

TBH, I think the places that have that are the subreddits people make as alternatives to the main one for a given piece of media. But yes, it's tricky.