#i dont understand people who are fans of the ship but dont like/get one of the characters??

[mamawasatesttube]

kon sweetie im so fucking sorry that someone would even say something stupid like that oh my god.

[literary-lesbian]

lisa get behind me!! i will defend you from all the fuckwits on twitter!!

this is a woman who lost by all accounts the love of her life and has barely had a chance to grieve her for three whole years because she has to stay strong for her daughter, or be professional at work, or do any number of things alone that she should have been doing with someone she loved by her side which all means she never got a chance to just stop and breathe and grieve and move on. and all the while quietly thinking in the back of her head that it should've been her instead and maybe everything would just be better if it did happen to her too.

so of course she's not over it!! and now here is this woman who opens her up and makes her laugh and kisses her hard and maybe she can imagine a future with her. but her daughter is too angry and she's too scared EVEN THOUGH she knows she's in love now.

and then just when she thinks maybe now she can move on, start afresh, someone drags up the past, the one thing she's trying to escape and forget, and maybe here's a chance to avenge her wife, make peace, move on.

and OF COURSE she goes to carla, because who else is she supposed to tell? she has no one else. and OF COURSE carla listens to her talk about her dead wife, because even though she's the one in the hospital bed, she is too in love with lisa to let her get hurt

[hexados-on-a-string]

spectragus dont get enough credit for being a sun and moon ship but like. destructive sun and moon ship. sun and moon ship but they're the forces of nature the sun and moon actually are. the sun is harsh and relentless and unpredictable in its evil but also it's kindness, the moon is sharp and cold and cruel, a harsh light that doesn't allow you peace, but can also guide you, a light in the darkness. even on nights with a new moon, with no light in the sky, the moon is always reflecting the sun, and it'll be that way until they come to their end.

[deus-and-the-machina]

ngl the worst thing about the xenoblade fandom (which I think is the root cause of a lot of other issues) is that it’s mostly on twitter. I have to subject myself to twitter for any real consistent fan talk or content. legit there's always some new stupid topic of argument ive noticed in the past few weeks on there and its all very silly and frustrating and what im saying is everyone should move to Tumblr. please. for me. 

[thrileikur]

if more people in the community these days were able to take in the last paragraph and apply it to their immensely hardened views of their dynamic, i would be a happy camper. the way pb interacts with finn is far more consistent (for the lack of better term so far) than one would think otherwise, particularly in the way she speaks to him throughout the series. it was playful and forebearing at the very start because that was the nature of her in the beginning, and it remained that way until the finale.

then you have to take in all the big events that happen to them, bonnie falling into the well of power for finn to behold in front of her, their interactions after the climax of too young, many of the interactions between that episode and breezy that DONT concern the romance arc (this is especially important imo), her pulling the plug on her cctv system after she watches the screen that records his house, everything during and after the log cabin arc etc etc etc. the general nature of their interactions remain, obviously not without plot and character development to display. with their work-oriented, communal partnership in defending others, including themselves this might seem obvious, then again, its still made clear that they still care a great deal about their interests and each other- how much is shared between them. its truly an emotional one as well, stuff like going off the radar for three months thanks to ricardio will do that

the objective way to see those interactions with the knowledge of her not directly remarking on how she felt about the potential of them in a relationship is maybe that the writers wanted to rightfully move on from that plotline, even so, with her traits alongside the timeline of bonnie and finn together in mind, it isnt off to say that if she had really put it down, it wouldve been shown. i believe that way because theyre the most important relationship in the show, maybe franchise based on story progression. theyre endlessly influenced by each other and theres never a great amount of effort by them to maintain it since it comes very naturally to them. going back to the point, bonnie being candid about the whole thing would totally be a landmark in their lives for them to handle. i do still feel like theres room to explore this in any of the future installments later on

theres also the argument that she speaks to and about him as how an older family member would a younger one, but ive never really liked that interpretation. to me it sort of insulates that pb owes a great deal in finns happiness, and that is already a terribly widespread take because it breaks down the agency of and infantilizes each respective character. you gotta assume that two people are able to live off of more than mutual support.

i think its fair to say that Finn is absolutely an extremely important presence in Bubblegum's life, way more significant than she generally lets on at least earlier in the series, though it is supported when by the time of Pajama Wars she is going out of her way to just hang out with him and he seems to be just about one of the very few people PB is honest with or lets her defenses down around

but another big element of it, ironically, ties back to their relationship becoming unrequited pining on Finn's end. PB ended it by going 'oh, silly boy, that was YEARS ago!' when its unclear how much of that is her fucking around and not taking it seriously, especially when PB is often not entirely honest about her feelings.

It IS clear that at the time, she had been taking it seriously; she genuinely wanted to stay a kid and with Finn, though responsibility demanded otherwise. But it is notable that while she sort of implies its not a romance anymore at the time, she otherwise just sort of leaves it hanging and seems to be ignoring it, or trying not to think about it, and that IS extremely significant in the light of The Suitor.

This episode establishes that PB has no patience or interest in actual suitors of any kind, firmly rebuffing them and refusing any kind of flirtation. If they want to waste their time waiting in line to court her when she makes it clear its not going to happen, that's their problem. But with Finn, she doesn't do this. She doesn't encourage it, but she also doesn't just go 'NOT GONNA HAPPEN' in a direct sense.

Significantly, PB doesn't address it at all, and this is EXTREMELY atypical in her normal characterization. She is blunt and direct to a point that it is the reason she and Marceline originally broke up, and as we see in The Suitor she does not care for anyone courting her.

PB not addressing it at all is a notable outlier in her behavior, and being secretive about her feelings is a recurring motif (as we see with her and Marceline); this suggests that Finn is an extremely important person to her, and that she goes out of her way to avoid addressing them at all when normally she doesn't avoid it at all suggests that its all a huge complicated mess that may frankly concern her a bit.

the complex and uncertain nature of PB's feelings towards/about Finn raise a lot of questions because of how much of an outlier they are compared to the way she normally is; if you compare the way PB acts around Finn (very honest, kind of socially awkward) to the way she acts when acting in an official capacity around everyone else (usually bouncing back and forth between regal granduer and informal wackiness for comic effect, but always feeling in control and self assured) it definitely feels like she's sort of taking the mask off compared to how she acts otherwise.

[eurydicees]

re what they are saying about fiyero on twitter - gosh there is too much stuff. they talk about how uninteresting he is, how his presence has no effect on the leads, how he shouldn’t be elphaba’s endgame and doesnt deserve to be, how they want to delete him from the plot (somewhere along those line), how they want to block anyone making any fiyeraba or fiyero tweets or content and much, much, MUCH more like i genuinely do not understand the obsession?

i of course get not liking him, thats normal about any character lol but the way they just cannot shut up about how they dislike him is so….. like really no one is challenging your gelphie content 😭 we really are not interested to challenge your ship. you really dont need to focus on this guy 24/7 but ig you do you i hope they remain sane amidst all the apparent misery lol

well. you know. disappointed by not surprised. a partial fiyero ted talk under the cut. sorry.

it's like. it's just so frustrating to write him off as uninteresting and as having no effect on either elphaba (or glinda). like guys why is the media literacy not happening right now. also how the fuck would you delete him from the plot???? guys his plan is literally how elphaba escapes dorothy. he's the one who saves her from the gale force, TWICE. he literally sacrifices himself for her escape and its his sacrifice that makes her spiral into "wickedness" during no good deed.

also, fiyero is elphaba's endgame in part because he does what glinda cannot bring herself to do. WHICH IS SO VITAL TO THE ENDING. fiyero is the one who makes all of the sacrifices for elphaba that glinda refused, and he both pays the price for it and reaps the reward of it.

glinda and elphaba have a profound effect on each other, obviously, but it's not like fiyero is left unchanged by elphaba. i dont get where this idea that fiyero and elphaba have no dynamic because like??? that's just not true?????

fiyero goes from refusing to confront the difficulties of life to choosing the more difficult path for the sake of morality and loyalty and love because of elphaba (which is also really interesting given how he's, like, kind of a casualty of war in the book more than he is an actual rebel....mostly fiyero's book to musical adapation is #Rough but that's a cool parallel i hadn't noticed before).

glinda begins to see the flaws in the wizard's society, but she actively chooses to be a part of the system anyway. and she regrets it. that's the whole thing abt thank goodness!!!

fiyero, on the other hand, begins to see the flaws in this society and he chooses elphaba--and the life of rebellion that she's chosen--over everything that glinda admits to being unable to resist.

and GOD. guys that's so interesting. HES SO INTERESTING!!! how are you not interested by all of this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wicked is such a cool study on morality and what the "right" thing to do in such a world is, and what it means to make the decision to do the right thing vs the comfortable thing. fiyero chooses to follow elphaba and he pays the price, but he also doesn't regret it. glinda chooses the "safe" option--but in the end, even if she chooses good then, she's entirely alone in it all.

and that's SO INTERESTING!!!!!!!!! god. whatever. twitter just doesn't get him like you and me get him, anon.

just. it's totally fine to dislike him! i'm not refuting people's right to dislike him. the nature of fictional characters is that sometimes people will dislike them. like that's fine.

but being incapable of shutting up about how much you hate a character just...it stops being "harmlessly disliking a fictional character" and starts being "you are insufferable to talk to." like sorry you're so miserable about fiyeraba but i'm gonna be over here just having fun because that's what fandom is supposed to be about :)

(also, just a major issue with breaking this movie up into two films released a year apart is that any movie-only fans just don't get the point of fiyero's character. it's kind of devastating. ik not all of the people saying that stuff are movie-only but man. the people who are...im BEGGING you to give him a chance in part 2. literally BEGGING you. fiyero is such a good character. he has so many good moments. let the green girl go lives in my head rent free and if they cut that i'll riot.)

tldr; fiyero is SO neat and twitter is just full of cowards.

[kinardsboy]

Prefacing this by saying i don’t hate Eddie or buddie in any way, im only tagging this as anti buddie so people can filter out criticism on a ship that they enjoy ❤️

This post doesnt really have a specific theme, I’m just kinda rambling here so bear with me lol

Something that has been bothering me for a while about the gay eddie hc, is that at least the canon basis/evidence for it, is honestly a little homophobic? Most often people claim he’s gay because of how he treats women poorly and how many failed relationships he’s been in and I just.. first off have you MET a straight man?? 😭 thats how they are..(For the most part). Secondly it’s a negative stereotype that gay men dont treat women well, so having that be one of your main points to make Eddie gay rubs me the wrong way, especially when it comes from non queer men. The other main point I see is the quote “it feels like a performance” but the thing about that quote is , its taken extremely out of context.

He was literally talking about being set up on dates, being FORCED to date instead of letting it happen naturally. Thats what feels like a performance.

I have never understood why Eddie also cant be bisexual if queer at all. he has been clearly shown to enjoy having sex with women.

And another thing that bothers me is that buddie fans shout all the time about wanting whats best for Buck, and then want him shoved in a relationship with a man that has never treated a romantic partner fairly. Again, this isnt Eddie hate but the guy needs serious therapy. He’s a good friend and a good dad, ultimately hes a good person too but he’s not a good partner and that wouldnt change just because he dates Buck.

Bob’s are constantly forcing a heteronormative role onto Buck, especially when it comes to taking care of Christopher and it just, thats not going to solve anything? Like at all? It really makes me feel like they dont understand mlm relationships at all, and what they look like and how they work, especially based on their reactions to how Tommy and Buck interact.

People probably arent going to like this take, but I see fics or posts that constantly put Christopher as Buck’s 1 priority and I just dont think its true. Dont get me wrong I really enjoy the relationship they have, but if any kid on the show has his highest priority, its Jee. Buck spends so much time with Chris because Eddie needs help, if Henren needed help or babysitting more often Buck would seem close to Denny and Mara as well. Im not saying Buck doesnt care or want to hang out with Chris of course, but I feel like people definitely overplay their relationship to an extreme extent. The same goes for buddie in general, especially these last few seasons I dont see buck and Eddie being any closer than eddie and hen or buck and hen or something. Especially considering in 704 Eddie literally didnt invite him to trivia which he knows (or should know) Buck likes lol

And another thing about Christopher is that they turn him into this buddie love child who is SO obsessed with his dad’s sexuality and its just so weird to me. They completely strip him of any independence and personality and turn him into this buddie advocate, and then put him away when he’s no longer useful or needed. Its ableism. Chris is his own character and his story shouldnt focus around Buddie or his dads romantic endeavors AT ALL.

Anyway if you read all of this thanks for indulging my rambling lol

[ritzcuit]

ppl who follow me are tired of me saying this, but if i could address the aa fandom directly... i rly would just ask that people like, stop being mean about dd and soj. like thats all i want.

im not even IN the fandom anymore, so i have no reach. i draw fanart and make my little ship posts but thats all. and thats bc the wider fandom ... is so fucking mean sometimes. omg. like its just not fun!!

but really, specifically, its about the dd and soj thing. the "play ace attorney we have so many games and [MOST OF THEM] are good!" thing. like, its fine if you dont LIKE dd and soj, obviously!! im not saying you HAVE to!

but "i dont like these games" and "these games are objectively bad and no one likes them" are entirely different statements.

plenty of people like dd and soj, even have them as their favorite games. i know this bc my soj fanart gets notes 😭 i have ppl in my tags excited and happy when i draw dhurke and datz. bc we like these characters!! and like to think about them and the story they come from!

...just bc YOU dont like soj, doesnt mean a lot of ppl dont like soj! so i really dont understand the drive to constantly talk down and insult these games?! like ... why be negative. u could be nicer. its possible and easy and then doesnt drive ppl away from the fandom bc their favorite games are being trashtalked all the time.

a lot of ppl find the space family dd interesting! they LIKE the phantom and his concept as a character! they LIKE soj and all of the political settings! it doesnt rly matter that they are, by and large, A Little Flop, bc people still LIKE them and like making content for them and thinking abt them and playing in the space and...!! like. why hate that? why constantly put us down for enjoying smth you didnt?

just dont need to constantly make slights at how "bad" and supposedly unenjoyable dd and soj are. cus not only is it mean, and makes the fandom hostile, but its literally untrue. i dont even consider myself in the fandom anymore bc all the fun is taken out of it when i have to brace myself for shitty comments like this whenever i read a post abt the series!

and i rly wish i could just Not Care what other ppl say. a lot of my friends dont care. but soj is like.....ive spent the past 5 years loving that stupid ass mediocre game. like its deeply important to me. and i just feel like a lot of ppl would have some fun with it if they werent constantly told how bad and skippable it is. im sure dd fans feel the same way.

its very cliquey. its very "the popular opinion is correct and if you dont agree, you dont get to play with us". it just sucksssss

[artsyannierose]

ALASTOR FANS ARE SOMETHING ELSE I SWEAR I JUST SAW SOMEONE OVER ON TWITTER SAYING ALASTOR’S ABUSE ISNT AS BAD AS VALENTINO

Your double standards are wild bro

Aight here we go

1 - Husk mentioned he “sold his soul to SAVE his power” not to gain more power, he was probably running low on luck and looking for a way to get back on his feet

2 - Blaming Husk??? Look I’m one of those people who LOVES character development and i sincerely hope husk was a horrible sinner, like i hope he was greedy and selfish and didn’t give a shit about his souls, long as he had the rush of a good gamble. I HOPE HE WAS AN ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE PERSON WHO GOT KNOCKED DOWN SOME PEGS TO WHERE HE IS NOW

BECAUSE THEN IT WOULD MAKE HIM REALIZE THAT ITS NOT SO FUN BEING THE OWNED SOUL NOW IS IT, AT THE BECK AND CALL OF THE RADIO DEMON NO LESS

AND YES YES I HOPE THAT’S WHY HE IS THE WAY HE IS NOW, AND WHY HE’S SO PERCEPTIVE

But wtf bro you literally are writing alastor off like he isn’t a maniacal psychopath that literally the entire pride ring fears because he’s a nasty lil power-obsessed shit?? Also Husk is well aware that his decisions got him here, that was the whole point of the prologue to loser baby

I desperately hope husk was unrecognizable as an overlord, I WANT TO SEE THAT CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT

Ironic how this genius says “he was no better than them” YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT ALASTOR ARE YOU BLINDDDD

Pisses me off so much how people are like “oh alastor’s abuse isn’t that bad” IM SORRY DO YOU GET TO DECIDE HOW BAD SOMEONE’S ABUSE IS??? HOW IT AFFECTS THE VICTIMS????? WHO DIED AND MADE YOU THE PSYCHOLOGIST

HUSK WAS SHAKING BRO HES USUALLY SO CHILL AND UNBOTHERED SO CLEARLY ITS BAD i want to say alastor’s done some pretty messed up things to husk because he like revels in physical pain and whatnot, so husk possibly thought he was about to go through something like that again??? HOW IS THAT ANY WORSE THAN RAPE GENUINELY I DONT UNDERSTAND YALL…

Valentino is a prick and so is Alastor there is no “levels of abuse” this is why domestic violence is bad bc nobody is actually bothered ffs YOU PEOPLE ARE MY CONCERN FOR SOCIETY

I NEED A HUSK CENTRIC EPISODE IN SEASON 2 RIGHT NOW BECUASE I NEED CANON MATERIAL FOR CLOWNS LIKE THIS

UNIRONICALLY THEY’RE A RADIODUST SHIPPER WHICH IS SENDING MEEEEE

NO WAY YOU’RE CALLING HUSKERDUST TOXIC THEN GO SHIP RADIODUST IM SOBBING

Yall some other breed istg

Ok thanks for coming to my TedTalk im literally in English class supposed to be taking a quiz bye

[caligvlasaqvarivm]

I really love how you draw Karkat and Calliope. You've already talked about how the other relationships within the POABPCL, so I was wondering if you could talk about Callikar in more depth as well.

Heehee okay so the short reasoning is that first of all, Karkat is also highly reminiscent of Caliborn, so there's Calliope's natural attraction there. But also Calliope desperately wants to experience a flushed romance, and Karkat is a crazy person who can't keep his quadrants straight. Which, for Calliope, would actually be a plus instead of a minus????

But yeah, for the Caliborn similarities, apart from the grey text and (mostly) capital letters and general cantankerousness and candy red blood and random textual callbacks to shit Karkat says:

CG: OK I DON'T SEE HOW WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE BECOMING FRIENDS IF YOU RECOIL FROM MY OLIVE BRANCH LIKE I'M WIGGLING A GNARLED TREE MONSTER'S DICK IN YOUR DIRECTION. [...] uu: HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO BE BECOMING FRIENDS. IF YOU RECOIL FROM MY OLIVE BRANCH. uu: LIKE I'M FLAILING A WITHERED MUMMY'S SEVERED LIMB IN YOUR DIRECTION.

CG: THE FACT THAT YOU ARE DUMB CG: IS AN IMMUTABLE FACT I AM STATING FOR THE RECORD. CG: IT DOES NOT MEAN ANIMOSITY IS WHAT IS TAKING PLACE HERE. [...] uu: AND THE FACT THAT I MIGHT NOT CLuE YOu INTO YOuR FATE ALL THE TIME. uu: DuE TO MY AGGRAVATED APATHY OVER THE MATTER. uu: IS AN IMMuTABLE FACT. I AM STATING FOR THE RECORD. uu: IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT GIVING A SHIT IS WHAT IS TAKING PLACE HERE.

Did you know they both weirdly have a thing for right angles?

DAVE: i dont want to see your lines making any right angles do you understand KARKAT: IN MY MIND'S EYE I AM PICTURING A BEAUTIFUL LATTICE OF LINES AND COMPARTMENTS, INTERLOCKING WITH SUBLIME PRECISION AT NINETY DEGREE ANGLES. KARKAT: I IMAGINE THIS MODULAR RETICULATION AS AN ELEGANT VESSEL, IF YOU WILL, FOR THE GRAND SYNTHESIS OF OUR SHARED SHIPPING DREAMS.

So yeah, you know, they've got some similarities! Enough to fuel some initial cherubic romantic interest, I feel.

But obviously, cherubic romance is primarily - if not exclusively - pitch. Calliope expresses this in a way that makes it very much sound like it's a setup that her happy ending does, in fact, involve her finding a matesprit.

UU: thoUgh i trUly wish i were capable of those feelings. UU: perhaps the fact that i am not is why the topic fascinates me so. UU: and why i have been prone do indUlge in sUch... UU: fancifUl visUalizations. UU: of yoUr people's lovely bright red relationships. UU: they mUst be nice. u_u

Personally, I think that cherubs "can't experience redrom" the way humans "can't experience blackrom". In that, y'know. ;)

But let's move from Calliope's side from a moment and talk about Karkat. Hey, do y'all remember how he had a crush on a different Space player? (The fact that Karkat actually totally had a crush on Jade, and continued to think incredibly fondly of her for years after the fact, to the point of using one of her passwords as the password to his dream hive, gets lost in the melange of ~yaoi~ is honestly one of the reasons I'm not a fan of DaveKat).

CCG: I'M GOING TO VOMIT. CCG: I'M MAKING A MENTAL NOTE TO SLAP MYSELF THREE HOURS FROM NOW, FOR BEING ENOUGH OF A SAP TO START DEVELOPING RED FEELINGS FOR A DUMB ANNOYING HUMAN, IF I'M READING BETWEEN THE LINES CORRECTLY. FCG: I JUST SLAPPED MYSELF! I REMEMBERED MY LAME NOTE TO MYSELF FROM THREE HOURS AGO, AND THEN SLAPPED MYSELF SPECIFICALLY TO MOCK YOU. FCG: IT STINGS TOO, YOU'LL FEEL IT IN A WHILE. AND THEN THE GHOST OF PAST ME WILL CRY.

Hussie's commentary on this is also fucking hilarious, by the way:

First, by defending Jade like this, Future Karkat is virtually making the case to his own past self to give her a chance, and to try to acknowledge that his aggression toward her is masking romantic attraction. If that wasn't nuts enough, the altercation doubles as an actual confession of this to Jade, which she now has to bear in mind as she goes forward befriending this guy. Like most other shouting matches Karkat has with himself, it's a complete free-for-all of self-owns and eyebrow-raising psychological revelations. And yet, in the totality of this clusterfuck, it's probably about as sufficient as anything else he could have done to get her to start giving the friendship a chance. How do you sidle out of something like this? You don't. This miserable basket case needs all the help he can get.

But this is another example of Karkat's horrible problem with mixing his quadrants and sending out all sorts of mixed signals, which he lambastes himself for later RE: Terezi.

FCG: IS IT?? TELL ME, HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU TREATED HER IN A WAY THAT COULD BE OBJECTIVELY CONSTRUED AS A FORM OF BLACK SOLICITATION? CCG: THAT'S JUST CCG: NO, THAT'S HOW WE'VE ALWAYS ROLLED TOGETHER. IT'S LIKE CCG: SPIRITED PLATONIC CONTENTION. CCG: TOTALLY NORMAL TERRITORY IN A HEALTHY MATESPRITSHIP. FCG: YEAH, A *HEALTHY* ONE, NOT ONE INVOLVING A DEMENTED LOUDMOUTH WHO CAN'T KEEP HIS SHIT UNDER CONTROL. FCG: LET ME ASK YOU, HOW MUCH OF THAT ANIMOSITY IS INNOCENT "PLATONIC RAGE"? FCG: COULD IT BE THAT SUBCONSCIOUSLY YOU WANT TO PUSH THINGS WITH HER ONTO CALIGINOUS TURF, MAYBE SEE HOW THINGS WORK OUT THERE? FCG: SEE IF YOU CAN HAVE YOUR GRUB, AND CULL IT TOO?? FCG: THAT WAY YOU HAVE HER ALL TO YOURSELF!

And even his "confession" to jade has shades of this, as he basically forced her to auspicetize between himself and... himself. Just a really messy guy who can't keep his quadrants straight. I've already talked before about how this would be completely fine for Eridan, who is literally too bad at social shit to notice and is just happy for the attention, but... doesn't that seem like it would work for Calliope, whose fundamental attraction model is based in pitch?

And to really get into this, we should also talk about Karkat's taste in movies. The three posters he has hanging up in his room are for Serendipity, Hitch, and 50 First Dates. Between the three of them, it becomes really clear that Karkat is really into the idea of soul mates - of finding a romantic partner that just kind of perfectly clicks with you and all your idiosyncracies, with whom the romance is natural, and brings out the best in both partners.

Serendipity most obviously, as the entire movie is practically a treatise on destiny and fate (and also, if you're only going to watch one, watch this one - it gets namedropped twice in the comic and I genuinely think HS draws like 30% of its DNA from it). Hitch's A-plot couple is widely considered the worse one, but the B-plot couple turn out to be perfect for each other - all the guy's lame, embarrassing aspects just happen to be what she finds adorable, and he just needed a courage boost and chance to be noticed by her. And 50 First Dates features a guy in Hawaii who loves taking visiting tourists on whirlwind romances, but is terrified of commitment, meeting a girl who can't make new memories - functionally rendering every date their first from her perspective - and it's really sweet. It doesn't even make you want to punch Adam Sandler at all. Like, not even a little bit.

In any case, what this says to me is that, while he still needs to undergo character development to be ready for it, the romance Karkat should eventually end up with is one where he doesn't have to compromise who he is, warts and all.

A lot of Karkat's more common fandom pairings tend to downplay, or even outright forget about, how genuinely uncomfortable it is to experience Karkat's nutso vascillation. Even if the edge is taken off via moirallegiance, Karkat is still the sort of messy guy who tells his flushed crush to "set the table on [his] bulge for their candle light hate date." Jade clearly isn't a fan of being treated rudely, while Terezi eventually gets driven off by the mixed signals he puts off... but what if there was a species who primarily experiences pitch attraction, who would find Karkat's frequent dips into black-coded flirtation hot?

And also... Karkat is obviously Calliope's favorite character troll...I mean, she's got his symbol as her cufflinks. And also:

CG: I THINK THIS SUBJECT IS BEYOND A LOT OF PEOPLE'S GRASP BUT I KNOW A LOT ABOUT IT, NOBODY EVER REALLY WANTS TO TALK TO ME ABOUT IT THOUGH. AG: Whoa really? Oh no shit, REALLY???????? CG: OK, MOST PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T HAD THEIR LOBE STEM CAUTERIZED ARE CAPABLE OF FEELING THE TWO PRIMARY EMOTIONS, HATE AND PITY. CG: PITY IS OF COURSE JUST THE TONED DOWN VERSION OF THE CENTRAL EMOTION, HATE. CG: AND ALL THE NUANCES OF PITY MANIFEST AS VARIOUS OTHER KINDS OF FEELINGS LIKE WHATEVER CHEMICAL REACTIONS TRIGGER MATING FONDESS OR THE MYSTERIOUS FORCES THAT ARE BEHIND MOIRALLEGIANCE.

And:

UU: actUally, i have written hUndreds of pages examining the striking differences between hUman and troll romance, as well as reprodUctive habits, as the comparison makes for a marveloUs case stUdy in xenobiocUltUral differences. UU: as long as i am sharing specUlation with yoU, perhaps yoU woUld like to read my essays? UU: i coUld even paste each page right here in sUccession, and allow yoU to read them back to back to back to back to back to back! ^u^ TT: Oh hell no. UU: ah. UU: yes, yoU're right of coUrse. i'm probably getting carried away as UsUal. UU: forgive my enthUsiasm, it's jUst that i so rarely have anyone to talk to who shares my passion for these matters.

They could both be SO ANNOYING about quadrants and romance together. It would be beautiful.

[jeonscatalyst]

as someone whos been on army twitter since 2018, it only seems like armys dont support jikook's bond the way jikookers do is because shippers are in a sub-fandom and within that subfandom they are in an echo chamber. its nothing unusual it's in literally every fandom but thats the only reason lol. like taekookers are saying the exact same thing, that the fandom is full of jikookers and everyone dismisses taekooks bond. solos and shippers all have their own "evidence" and "proof" or armys "not defending ___", and 9.9/10 its something 1) armys have never seen or even heard about bc twitter and the internet is a biiiig space or 2) something taken completely out of context. i like to be in this tag bc ive been an ot7 biased army since 2019 with jikook being my fav duo, and while i dont care to know if theyre in a relationship with each other, its not something crazy either because friends to lovers is like the oldest trope ever and also theyd be cute as hell together lmao. i dont follow any solo focused accounts or pairing accounts, literally only armys and when are you sure came out my tl looked like this tag 😭. armys are well aware of jikook's bond and are supportive of it, the issue is taekookers. i could make a thread of vmin, namkook, sope are married and get 10k likes, but i couldnt do that bc of taekookers. theyd swarm the quotes and no thats not armys doing it or armys fault, thats the twitter algorithm being 100000000x worst after elon musty took over bc it was not like that at *all* pre-him. with likes being hidden and the algo pushing deplorable disgusting terrible tweets, it makes it infinitely harder to take accts down.

also its like the way straight armys and lgbtq+ armys experience being a fan. you notice subtexts and clues that may or may not actually be there or mean what you think/want it to mean but its still your fandom experience and youre able to talk about it with other like-minded people. perfect example for this: like crazy. the queer coded-ness of it all, the makeup & earing on one side, jimin in my eyes created the bisexual Iliad in song form ! but thats not how most het armys wouldve viewed it at all, and that doesnt even mean my interpretation of it is correct or the only way to view it. im not going to look down on those who viewed it differently. so shippers are experiencing something different; they watch their pairing to see how they look at each other, touch each other, speak to each other, treat each other compared to everyone else. armys simply arent doing all that; and that doesnt mean we dont care or that shippers love them more (lol), it just means that within the shipping culture and sub-fandom, thats what yall do. which is cool, but like i said its not the *only* way an army can love and appreciate their bond. there's also the echo chamber aspect of the subfandom culture i didnt really get into but it also plays a huge part in why jikookers think armys dismiss or dont love jikook in the same way jikookers do. all this isn't necessarily a slight against you but i think conversations like these are necessary bc talking points like "armys dont actually like seeing jikook together" or "majority of the fabdom is taekookers who hate jikook" are extreeeemely slippery slopes that discourage any type of meaningful thought, and only encourages and eggs on solo rhetoric, which as we hopefully all know is directly antithetical to what any of the boys would ever want.

Hi anon,

I completely understand the points you’ve made, and I do agree with you to an extent. It’s true that in every sub-fandom within the main fandom, whether it’s Taekookers, Jikookers, other shippers, or solos, everyone essentially complains about the same issues, each armed with their own “proof” to justify their arguments. That part, I fully agree with.

However, while I see your point, I do want to emphasize that Jikook’s bond is often undermined by many within the fandom. And it’s not just Taekookers or solos; even some OT7 fans contribute to this. The reasons for this vary. Yes, you’ll find other groups complaining about the same things we do, but when you dig deeper to understand their grievances, it often turns out to be something taken out of context or just bitterness over someone highlighting Jikook or saying something positive about their bond.

The truth is that Jikook’s bond stirs mixed feelings in this fandom for many reasons. It has never been the simplest relationship to understand…or even to love, if I’m being honest. Many people join fandoms and sub-fandoms as an escape from real life issues, seeking something that feels lighthearted, comforting, or entertaining in their spare time. Because of this, a lot of people dislike grappling with more complex dynamics like Jikook’s. They either reject it outright because they don’t understand it or ignore it altogether. This lack of understanding often leads to their bond being undermined.

Jikook’s dynamic has historically made many people uncomfortable for a variety of reasons that I won’t delve into here. But when we talk about this fandom ignoring or undermining their bond, there is more than enough evidence to support that claim.

In contrast, what’s complicated or complex about Taekook? Their dynamic is fun, easygoing, and comforting, qualities that are universally appealing. There’s no need to overthink their interactions or navigate any layers of complexity when watching them. Everything that has ever appeared complex about those two is largely a result of shippers fabricating explanations to reconcile their behavior with the expectations of a romantic dynamic. These narratives are often crafted to justify why they don’t exhibit the typical actions or interactions one might expect from a couple… I.e Taekook not seen spending much time with each other = the company separating them or regulating their interactions on camera. Most people in the fandom, except for some Jikookers and solos, have no reason not to enjoy their dynamic. An easy way to see this is by observing the response to their content. A Taekooker can make up lies, edit photos, or take moments out of context, and it will gain over 20k likes, with the fandom eagerly eating it up. Meanwhile, Jikookers can post real, authentic moments of Jikook, only to have their posts reported. So, no, for the most part, Taekookers don’t have a strong basis for their claims. (This isn’t the bone of contention but just had to mention this)

I also agree with you that many fans don’t pay attention to the same things shippers and solos focus on. Sometimes they’re simply unaware of certain dynamics, which can come across as indifference. I also don’t entirely agree with the narrative that ARMYs dislike seeing Jikook together. I’ve seen the fandom be supportive of Jikook as a duo but I still firmly believe Jikook is one of the pairs whose bond is most heavily undermined. A clear example of this is how much of the fandom dismisses Jikook’s interactions as mere fanservice, simply because some of their moments appear too “intimate” or “gay” for their liking.

This is definitely a topic that deserves more discussion because there’s so much to unpack here.

[necromancer-at-abattoir]

anon because the fandom does genuinely scare me sometimes, especially within the caleo stan circles

love your posts. what are your thoughts on caleo? i personally greatly dislike it, but how do you feel about it? i think it's another percabeth situation, where people only defend the abuse that happens because of the gender (if calypso was male and leo was female, there would be a riot. same situation with the constant hitting/violence with annabeth. a genderswap would ruin these ships.) i dont think leo or calypso act happy in the relationship, whatsoever.

About Caleo.............

All right, I hate that ship, but my main problem is how Rick portrayed Calypso in PJO versus how she is portrayed in the actual mythology and the Odyssey.

It is wildly different. So different that you'll case a severe case vertigo every time you switch. Better go slow and let the snails guide you when dealing with them.

All right, people who are Greek Mythology fans who have also not read Percy Jackson, I'm going to need you to fortify yourself for this one. Fortify yourself BIG TIME.

Go outside, take a walk, drink some water, deep breaths, remind yourself of everything good in life. Even the smallest thing. You are going to need it, I swear. Get your comfort items, call loved ones to reassure yourself. Do everything.

All right, so I don't know how many PJO fans have read the Odyssey, but if you have read it before or after, doubtless you'll be surprised at how different the two Calypsos are.

Yeah. Ok. Shit's getting weird here.

Let me start with how Calypso is portrayed in the Odyssey.

She is not a sad, helpless UWU teen girl like Calypso in PJO. She shouldn't have even been a teenager in PJO-she romanced two grown men!

She's not the type of person to understand and let someone go. She didn't do that with Odysseus-she kept him captive for seven years and only let him go when Hermes threatened her with the wrath of Zeus (not something you want to tempt, never ends well.)

Being a nymph and a minor goddess who was the daughter of Atlas, she supported him during the First Titanomachy which was why she lived on Ogygia in exile as punishment. She's a goddess, which means that she was leagues more powerful than Odysseus, who was exhausted, traumatised and didn't have any crew or supplies to sustain him. Going back into the ocean was also dangerous because, well, Poseidon and his rage (not something you want to have on your head either).

It's literally stated in the poem that Odysseus cried on the beach every morning, wishing to return home and missing it terribly. He literally just wanted to see the smoke that rose from his homeland and wants to die. Exact lines copied from Homey's Odyssey-

'By night indeed he would sleep by her side perforce in the hollow caves, unwilling beside the willing nymph.'

'At night-time, true, he slept with her even now in the arching caverns, but this was against his will; she was loving and he unloving'.

'But Odysseus, in his longing to see were it but the smoke leaping up from his own land, yearns to die.'

And when Hermes forces her to let him go, she makes this speech saying that gods will ravish all the women they like, but the moment goddesses start doing the same, they are furious and make them stop.

That's literally just her trying to blame the gods and not herself for something she did. She's trying to shift the blame and make herself seem likeable because others did it, so why can't she?

This is something that a lot of abusers use to make them seem better. Calypso's actions are not ok, and the narrative does not tell us that it's ok. It condemns them, and so should we.

This by @katerinaaqu is a must-read, and you should check out their blog for more info on the real Calypso.

And how she's portrayed in Percy Jackson

We should not, for example, turn this adult nymph who's a rapist into a biologically and mentally 15-16 and make her a poor little girl who's sadly living on an island and then state that she's romanced grown men while somehow being 15-16 years old and ignore it.

I'm not saying that it had to be stated that she was a rapist because this is a children's book series.

But I'm not saying that she had to be portrayed as a teenager either.

The worst part is that though Calypso is depicted as a teenager, it's said that she fought in a war, the First Titanomachy which was much more serious than the Second One, and she romanced two grown men.

All of this while being a teenager? How the hell does that work? Apollo literally says that Calypso is old enough to be his babysitter! And he's millennia old! Millennia!

There is no logic in this, honestly. I mean, there's not much logic or consistency in PJO, but this really takes the cake.

And in Heroes of Olympus, more specifically the fourth book House of Hades, she appears again.........

And, well, this is where it gets really revolting.

Leo Valdez, a fifteen or sixteen year old teenager, is thrown all the way to Ogygia. And there he meets Calypso, who, as the book series states, cannot help but fall in love with every hero that appears on her island because they're just her type.

I think we all know what happens next.

Calypso, a millennia-old goddess who fought in a war and romanced grown men, gets into a relationship.........with a traumatized, mentally unstable teenage boy who's not even a legal adult. After only, what, a few weeks?

Yeah, you can see why I told you to remember everything happy in life at the beginning.

THE ATROCITY OF ROMANTICISED SUICIDE

Ok, so Caleo is abusive, but I'll get to that later.

What I want to talk about-first and foremost about Caleo-is that Leo commits suicide to find Calypso's island again-and this isn't good.

...............Sorry, did I say that that wasn't good?

No, that's a fucking understatement and underestimation.

IT'S ROMANTICISED SUICIDE.

Sink that in your head people. He killed himself to find her island again and take her off of it!

And no, that's not romantic. It's not. Fucking. ROMANTIC.

it's disgusting, unacceptable, unpleasant, nasty, disagreeable, horrid, unwholesome, atrocious, awful, deficient, revolting, lacking, unwelcome, unfortunate, inferior, inadequate, lousy, flawed, pathetic, disastrous, ill, useless, worthless, gross, damnable, vile, absymal, horrendous, shoddy, abominable, crappy, faulty, trashy, substandard, nasty, terrible, dreadful, unfavourable, grim, distressing, regrettable, adverse to morality and humanity, entirely unnecessary and not up to scratch (THAT WAS THE ITCHIEST THING I'VE EVER SEEN).

How, just how am I supposed to explain how horrible this is? Especially in a children's book series?

Killing yourself just to find a loved one is never a good concept in any form of media. It's a self-destructive fantasy and suicide itself is a horrible, horrible thing-not to blame the suicidal person, but to both them and their loved ones.

And suicide should never be romanticised, never ever, period. To do so, especially in a children's book series, is absolutely atrocious writing on the author's part, no matter who they are.

He never even called it out. If he had said that it was horrible and treated it as such, it would be a little better-but no. It's cheered on and encouraged, which is a level of hell that's deeper than the Earth's core.

I don't think I've emphasized how awful this is. It's just.......let's not romanticise suicide and suicidal tendencies. Not for anything. Never.

LEO'S ARC IS RUINED

The entire point of Leo Valdez's arc was to show that being the third wheel (seventh one in this case) wasn't bad. Being single, not finding romantic love, was fine. Acceptance without romance was possible, and pure platonic love was also possible. And Calypso pretty much ruined this because in the end, heteronormativity forces romance above everything.

And he literally prioritises this random girl whom he spent a few weeks with over his friends whom he spent months with and knows them way better than Calypso.

The forced amatonormativity here is crystal clear, as transparent as clean air honestly. You can see lichen on the trees if you look close enough.

Abuse in Caleo

Calypso is also abusive to Leo.

1) First of all, when Leo lands on Ogygia, Calypso is angry because in her words, 'the gods send her this charbroiled runt of a demigod instead of a real hero to mock her'.

She's rightfully angry that they didn't release her, but that doesn't mean that her words were any less painful to him. They did contribute to his insecurity issues. A few words can have a lasting impact, too.

She also looks into Leo's past and sees his memories. Without his permission. Which is pretty creepy and moves past boundaries in a bad way.

And he commits suicide to find her in BOO. I think I've already talked about how horrible that is. I didn't stress how bad it is even though I used so many words that I probably exhausted the Oxford Dictionary.

Now we come to the Dark Prophecy, where they star as a couple (more like a star explosion).

2) In TDP, Calypso jabs her fingers into Leo's ribs.

Why?

It's because she asked what was hiding Festus from the mortals, so he tells her what the Mist is and she says that already knows-even though she literally asked the question that provoked in the first place.

Even if she thinks he's insulting her or talking down, when he's not, she shouldn't jab her fingers into his ribs.

And that wasn't playful-Leo expressed physical pain through an exclamation. And even if Calypso thought it was playful, she didn't apologize afterwards when she saw that she caused Leo physical pain.

3) She also calls him by a name that he told her never to call him by-Leonidas.

He clearly doesn't like it, and knowing that, she still uses it, that too in front of someone they don't know very well, almost a stranger.

In the Riordanverse, names have power.

Leo chooses not to call himself that. He tells Calypso never to call him that. And she calls him that.

In this moment, she's taking his power and autonomy away from him by calling him something he doesn't like. It's probably minor to a lot of you, but honestly, it's pretty bothersome to those of us who have actually experienced this.

4) Leo often uses mechanical-related analogies, but Calypso hates them and makes him stop using them, so he doesn't even use them when she's not around.

What's wrong with him using his analogies? He uses them to help him and she makes him stop. She effectively stops him from using something that helps him. That is bad.

It's a fundamental part of him. If Calypso doesn't like it, then why is she dating him at all?

5) Leo is also bad to Calypso. He calls her Mamacita multiple times after she tells him not to. Reyna literally has to tell him to stop calling her that and intimidate him into doing it, and it's all passed off has lighthearted playfulness.

As someone who has been through this before, it's pretty damn frustrating. It's not funny or cute to do it. It's plain annoying and the person on the receiving end is completely right to want it to stop.

6) The age gap. I've mentioned this before.

But some people are saying that Calypso has the maturity of a teenager in PJO, so why shouldn't she date Leo?

All right, using that logic, let's make Apollo and Reyna date!

NO.

Calypso has lived for millennia on her island. She says that it's been three thousand five hundred and sixty eight years.

This isn't like Nico, who was in the Lotus Casino for decades but only aged a month. He was the same level of mature when he went into it and came out. Calypso was not.

Apollo has also lived for millennia. And he has a teenager's maturity. Does that mean it's ok for him to date Reyna.

No. It does not. And the same logic applies to Calypso and Leo.

I've also heard someone saying that Calypso is cursed to fall in love with whoever washes up on her island, which isn't true.

She says that the gods send her the type of person whom she can't help herself from falling in love with. Not that she's cursed to love them.

7) In TDP, Leo is working on something to try and find Georgina, a missing child.

And then when he says as much, Calypso sharply asks him if he can imagine losing his child.

He can, in fact, do that. He lost his mom, which was just as horrible if not more than Jo and Emmie losing their child, since there was a chance of Georgina coming back, but Esperanza could never come back.

He also has a little brother-Harley. He says that he would be furious if someone did something bad to Harley! So yes, he can in fact imagine what losing a child is like!

After this, Calypso for some reason gets frustrated and tells him that he can't reduce everything to a program.

He's not doing that. He's not reducing this problem to a program-he's working on a program to reduce this problem.

She tells him that Jo and Emmie don't need gadgets or jokes. They need someone who will listen.

And how is that going to help exactly? Leo is actually doing something. He's working on something to find Georgina.

A good listener is something nice to have, but a person who actually does something helpful is even better. And if Calypso thinks Jo and Emmie need a good listener, then she can listen. What else is she doing anyway?

Calypso willfully misunderstands this and wrongfully accuses him of not listening and trying to reduce everything to a machine when he's not. This is what a toxic partner does. They twist the narrative to make you think that your actions are wrong when they're not.

TO CONCLUDE

Neither Leo nor Calypso is happy in their relationship. It was built on naive dreams and false passions-the moment they became a real couple, they didn't know what to do. They thought that they loved each other, but it was only the idea of love and having a partner that was compelling to them. The moment they actually got what they wanted, which was to be in a real relationship, they didn't know how to actually be a couple. Then the problems of a real relationship began to hit both of them.

The logical solution would be to talk it out, apologise on both ends, realise that they wouldn't work out together and finally break up while remaining good friends or just stop contacting each other entirely-either one is fine.

They're taking a break now, so hopefully Rick Riordan will make them break up, but I think that he'll just never mention them again, which wouldn't be as great, but would be fine, honestly, regarding the current state of Rick Riordan.

[aidlyncanon]

ik i already made a similar post on this topic but i cant stand when fans make it seem like a character only cares for one person and no one else

Ashlyn and Aiden (SBG)

guys GUYSSSS they care for EVERYONE i genuinely cant stand it Ashlyn since early season one has wanted to protect everyone she has stated this many times i dont understand where the idea that she only cares for Aiden came from.

similarly with aiden how did the Aiden and Alex scene become an aidlyn scene? yall he didnt know who was hurt, it didnt matter to him. sometjing happened to his friend and he got upset. "imagine how hed react if he knew it was ashlyn from the start" guys he heard alex out after finding out they were okay and who it was PLEASEEE 😭

Norman (TPN)

i hate to break it to you but norman cares for EVERYONE its kinda his whole character in the manga, i get maybe in the anime cause it wasnt greatly done but in the manga he always mentions for everyone, and sure hed name emma separately but he also named ray. mosy of the time it was "emma, ray, and like everyone else"

his whole character is how he wanted to save everyone did we read the same manga?

Uraraka and Midoriya

midoriya doesnt just care about bakugou guys its extremely obvious of this i feel like i dont need to go into much detail but he wants to protect EVERYONE villains included like hello?

i hate when people water down uraraka to just "izukus love interest" or to her just liking him despite the fact she literally ignored those, she cares about midoriya sure but to act as if hes the only thing on her mind is insane behaviour

do they all care about the other? sure but they dont ONLY care for the other. anyway found family >>> ships :)

[poopingonthefloor]

Davesport is Toxic NOT abusive

(((WARNING: PRETTY LONG POST UNDER THE CUT.))) I've seen some people making the claims that Davesport is comship/proship (ok well i've more seen people bitching about it) and im tired of the Davesport slander so this will be an analysis of their relationship. My motive isn't to force anyone to ship it or anything- i really dont care what you do with your life, my frustration is just when people try to make up REASONS why they don't like the ship, even though its literally canon (and not badly written). My main point is -- You can hate what you want. You don't need a reason, and it doesn't need to be bad just because you don't like it. But I will not take any slander on their ship nor any slander of people who like davesport. Davesport is absolutely toxic-- No DSAF fan would disagree. They are literally child murderers with little to no souls and literally are physically disfigured to the point they don't have the capacity to feel proper humanity anymore. You cant expect 2 men who live their lives willingly murdering and then partying in vegas to celebrate on repeat to be gentle and kind to themselves or anyone else.

However, its NOT abusive. I've seen multiple people (mostly from twitter screenshots) claim that Davesport is abusive or the way people portray it is in a fetishy or romanticizing way of abuse, when that's just not the case. I don't blame a lot of people, since a lot of it comes from reading context and intent of the artist, which not everyone is good at-- BUT I'm here to assure you that MOST people don't intend to do that much and just like to portray how their dynamic is canonically like or portray Daves obsession with Jack. Another argument I've seen (by a twitter screenshot...) is that people are comshipping Davesport because people draw Jack annoyed a lot at Dave when...thats not true? That's just Jack's personality, first off:

(From the Dave x Reader fanfic by Directdoggo)

"Jack is a bastardman not very touchy-feely. We can see this in many scenes, where Dave more or less says “I love you” and Jack responds with deflecting humour, or outright scorn. When Dave says it for the final time, this time, Jack tries to say it back, but can’t outright, only getting out: “Why is this so hard?” and “I hope you can find peace with what you’ve done.” Which Dave understood the meaning of. (Hey, better than Henry (LEGACY Jack) hearing “I love you” and proceeding to tear Dave limb from limb, huh?"

(Directdoggo describing Jack's personality)

I know it can be a little confusing to some people, but as someone who struggles with similar issues, just because he struggles to express intimately doesn't mean he can't love anything. Sometimes people are just different and communicating like that doesn't come as easily, even to the people you're closest to. To make it as easy as possible to comprehend-- He's quite literally a tsundere. (Minus the exaggerated ridiculousness in anime) He loves Dave, he just cant bring himself to say or act like it. The dismissiveness or rudeness in response to Dave's affection is not abuse, it's just a defensive response since he doesn't know how to say it back. (His way of being "shy") -- Also note its important that Dave UNDERSTANDS this about him by that point.

However Jack isn't the only thing I've seen regarding the claims that their ship is abusive-- and to debunk all of those I'm going to explain the three points that keep Davesport from being abusive, and I'll use Henry x Dave (which is what I'll call it to prevent it getting confused for FNAF willry) as an example alongside it since its super obvious why that one is messed up. Firstly, They are both bad people. By this point, Dave and Jack are murderers. It's just not surprising that they will be willing to kill each other at at least some point, considering they are willing to kill 5 year olds without remorse- and they'll both deserve it. It's only their own faults that they teamed up with the other, and it's meant to be the ultimate irony when Jack becomes even worse than Dave by "An ending". My point is- they're bad people. It's not like they're owed perfect company or would choose wholesome people to hang out with when they're literally both child murderers. Dave wasn't evil and didn't want to kill by the time he teamed up with Henry (and even after it was Henry's fault), so by that point his suffering was absolutely undeserved.

Secondly, They're lacking any specific power dynamic. Unlike Henry and Dave- whom have several levels of "Age, Father figure, and Employer", the most important one is that Henry is Dave's abuser. He manipulated him and purposefully harmed him both mentally and physically, whereas Dave never had any intention of doing either because Dave loved him and didn't want to lose him (because he had nobody else) This obviously much different with Dave and Jack, whom other than being taller and several years older than (which you can argue their 6 year age gap is weird but they didnt get to know each other till they were both older than 30 so by that point age difference doesnt rlly matter and (also theyre "mentally" like 24 and 22 canonically anyways (as much as I usually hate that argument)) Other then that they are only co-workers. This is a bit more arguable during DSAF 1, where Dave comes across more threatening and comes across like he's manipulating Jack, but I don't exactly count that because I wouldn't say theyre "shippable" or in their "situationship*" by that point (but also because them even being a ship was barely considered by the creator at that point obviously)-- whereas Dave is certainly more easily recognized as sincere to Jack in DSAF 2. Jack also is not someone who is afraid to defend himself against Dave, as shown by the fact he's willing to call out Dave's ridiculous behaviors (which is reasonable of him to do).

(Also from the Dave x reader fanfic) (I just think this specific screenshot debunks any sort of "power dynamic" claim)

My Third and Final point: There is a CHOICE involved I haven't really done much Dave defense in this post, but his defense is very simple: He is literally physically unable to comprehend guilt or conscience. Dave didn't want to murder anyone in the first place, but it was Henry who fucked with his (literal) head so much to the point he stopped being able to feel guilt. He doesn't care about murder and doing wrong because he CAN'T care. You can't really let that reflect Dave as a character when he's really not in control of himself in the first place. Now with that, that doesn't change the fact he could certainly affect and hurt people, and it's fully up to Jack as to whether or not he wants to deal with this purple man's freakish life choices and hobbies or not. And that's honestly super dependent on the ending you decide to base Jack on. Most people see the 'canon' endings to be: Gnarly ending (DSAF 1) -> An ending (DSAF 2) -> Good ending (DSAF 3) Where in all of these, Jack DOES choose to deal with Dave and basically is completely cool with murder. You don't have to follow those endings if you don't want to, but that's just typically what the modern "Davesport" is known for, but its what I'm using for my defense (considering this is a defense of both fandom and canon Davesport.) Though as opposed with Henry and Dave- Dave had no choice. Henry only ever manipulated him into thinking he did, and Henry made sure to feed this whole 'we will be a family' ideal into Dave (who never had one) so that Dave would be terrified to lose him. Jack never manipulates Dave (when teamed up with him), and Dave never manipulates Jack (tho arguable in DSAF 1 as well). They stay with each other despite all of their issues, and I believe its due to some co-dependency (imo I think Jack is also obsessed with Dave just in a different way before DSAF 3) Which isn't healthy, but not...inherently abusive.

I believe my main three points kind of cover the most of why I dont consider Davesport to be inherently a bad ship, but like I said- if you don't like it, none of that matters anyways. You dont NEED a reason to like something, and I wont try to convince you why you should ship something because I like it. Just don't hate it just because of what someone else says-- 90% of the dsaf fandom aren't comshippers, and Davesport isn't gross or "toxic /neg" just because it's not healthy. I think "Don't fetishize/romanticize literal abuse like its normal or sexy" and "We should explore more complicated and unhealthy dynamics" can and SHOULD coincide with each other!!!! I think Davesport is great because of how bittersweet it is that these two people finally found solace and acceptance in each other but couldn't get past the self-sabotaging nature of what Henry turned them both into, ultimately making it impossible to work out forever. I think embracing the Davesport makes the (kind of aged) trilogy a lot more enjoyable of an experience and I DO encourage any davesport skeptics to keep an open mind. [Pretend I wrapped this up super nicely I can never do that--- Also this is open for conversation and/or debate, and also yada yada my bad if i said something randomly terrible I have extremely poor social skills lol let me know so I dont do it again yada yada] *Also if anyone doesnt know a situationship is (at least in the context im using it in ive heard other definitions for it but its not a real word so i actually dont care) when 2(or more) people basically treat eachother like lovers but they never communicate this outright and dont technically officially date but like they treat and commit to eachother like a partner would) (So its kind of what all those people who playfully flirt and call each other their spouses as a commited running joke are in)

[trashogram]

i don't know if anyone else feels the same, but i hate that the lack of nuance with stella is so aggressively on the nose at this point, that it creates a shift where stans are like "stella is an evil bitch with no redeeming qualities who should die!" because of them interpreting that smile that was obviously meant to be manipulative. viv wrote that scene that way so fans would react to it ike this.

but then antis are like "diversity win! mother and daughter interact but aren't voice acted because god forbid we DONT spend millions of dollars to pay vassago the useless fuck to be stolas's cheerleader and literally fucking nothing else, for the very first time in the series...... at the end of s2. nearly at the MIDWAY point of the series and these two don't even talk to each other even when stolas is a major focus and these two are a big part of his life, and probably won't talk to each other until fucking s3 if they don't kill stella in the finale since her brother just seems like a replacement for her more then anything now because this show treats women like vegetables you have to eat before you get the pudding for desert - were eating so good because we got less then the bare minimum anyone would expect from women characters in a TV show :D!"

like. the bar is in fucking hell at this point that even antis are eating dogshit now. i just hate that for a show about "queer people being messy and flawed" or whatever bullshit viv spews in interviews to explain why 90% of her characters are mean little cunts without a hint of compassion in their stick thin bodies, she won't let the one character who's dripping with potential moral grayness and a possibly sympathetic backstory thats like stolas's, be the main villain with understandable motivations like she had before in s1, because they're a woman who gets in the way of a yaoi ship.

viv won't even consider the possibility of her being queer - in the show that won a queerty - without spindlehorse social media manager suddenly insisting shes homophobic, when, at any opportunity to BE homophobic towards stoliz in the past, she's never been. not even in the most recent episode, where she.. somehow knows that blitz and stolas had a deal for the book? when all she thought before is that the ONLY thing they were doing before (in her bed btw) was fucking..?

No I feel you. I think there’s a small community of people like us that feel the same way, actually. We see all the manipulative bullshit from this show’s creators for what it truly is and have no reason to stifle ourselves for speaking out on it — even the little rats that try to harass us out of it aren’t worth the trouble of humoring by this point.

Stella and Octavia don’t matter beyond their connection to Stolas, and it’s so minor by this point that they might as well not exist. Stolas’s victim status will be shoved down our throats regardless.

Viv and her crew have only shown consistency when it comes to using queerness in its many forms and facets for 1.) self-gratification and 2.) predatory pageantry.

It’s gross to hear HB won an award for it, but imo media-based award ceremonies are breeding grounds for corruption.

[ceratedfish24]

dude i NEED to tell you that reading your posts about scott has been a breath of fresh air. like, GOD, i always see him hated on, called manipulative, controlling, bossy, interfering, and all sorts of stupid shit. both c!scott and Scott Major the Real Life Man. i've sort of come to the conclusion that this fandom MUST have some sort of internalized homophobia thing going on because somehow i just dont think its a coincidence that the only Out Gay Man in the life series is the one who gets hated on the most.

and in shipping especially! personally ive never been a fan of ranchers, its not my cup of tea, but i have seen so many ranchers fans who wont have the same courtesy for fh enjoyers. so many people hate on the ship and call it 'toxic', adopting this sort of puritan lense about shipping ONLY when scott's involved. bcause then you look at a ship like scarian where they LITERALLY beat each other to death, pretty much, and yeah sure there are people who call that 'toxic' too but when SCARIAN is toxic it's Cute and Angsty. and grian's just a Grump who's a little Mean sometimes but its ok bc he has trauma!!!!!!!

and then when scott's rude to jimmy in a similar capacity, all of a sudden he's Abusive and Manipulative and Horrible, and shipping fh is Morally Wrong and makes you a bad person. the amount of takes like this that i've seen from people who then act like desert duo is, by the same measure, completely morally okay is baffling.

sorry to send such a long ask!! it's just really refreshing to finally see someone besides my beloved friend Shrimply Lemonade who understands how fucking awful this fandom is towards scott sometimes haha

-felix :3

I’m so glad that my posts can bring some ease to people!! It’s absolutely an internalized homophobia thing. The same people who call Scott “manipulative”, “toxic”, or “abusive” never call out Joel, Grian, or fWhip for being so much worse than Scott. When it’s an ACTUALLY out gay man, it’s toxic and manipulative and bad. When it’s two straight guys, it’s cute or hot.

Scott doesn’t do anything differently from anyone else other than be an openly gay and flamboyant man, yet he’s the only one who gets demonized. People need to understand that it is targeted. If it weren’t targeted, you would be calling a whole ton of your favorite creators “manipulative”, “toxic”, and “abusive”.

(Long asks and rambles and ranting is always welcome here!! <3)