#i don't think goosefeather went

[the-owl-tree]

Spottedleaf's heart is such a terrible book for me because the authors wrote such a realistic and terrifying depiction of grooming but then halfway through writing they went "oh wait, we've written apprentice/warrior/age-gap ships before as normal and with our own >protaganists>." and then they can't outright say that SpottedThistle is bad because of the age gap because it would break the previously established ethical rules for the audience.

I don't think they even fully recognize what they were doing. The main message of the book, to not "love foolishly", is foreshadowing to her relationship with Firepaw. Spottedleaf going "I will never love foolishly again" is meant to be understood by the audience as a false promise - Goosefeather says as much by claiming it's a lesson she'll never learn.

Like ultimately, I don't think they even recognized what they were writing with prior age gaps and that's why I'm so skeptical that it was the fully realized intention the book. It ultimately, when reading it, is a book about how Spottedleaf is going to fall in love again with someone she shouldn't. That is the conclusion of her story, not that she was being abused.

[bonefall]

Three things

1. Crowfoot is absolutely perfect cuz like Crow would already know he’s name cuz I can imagine Tallstar wasn’t being subtle about it

2. With how rigid Goosefeather is with fate, would he be the one coming to get Hazeltail?

3. Squirrelflight’s horror, interesting, may we know the horrors?

Crowfoot

REALLY good feedback on Crowfoot over Crowwing. Especially @elkpoint's suggestion to have people call him Crowfood as an insult. Unless there's sudden turnaround like my informal Marshkit vs Applekit poll, Crowfeather's pre-Honor Title name is Crowfoot.

Goosefeather Fetch

He deserves to rest! Besides, I want Jayfeather to fight someone who can fight back. Goosefeather never had combat training.

I like to think Goose is a dreamwaver in StarClan. He helps craft dreams and omens, his time on the council mostly behind him by Po3. He wouldn't be one of the cats who does retrievals, more of a homebody type guy.

Squirrelflight’s Horror

Oh, if you've read Squirrelflight’s Hope you know what her horrors are. It's one of the books that will be the least changed by the redux; but this time, I plan to really focus on how bad of a leader Bramblestar is. A lot of things come to a head in this book, establishing how the Clan went so long not realizing he was possessed

Squilf and Bramble split years ago, Jesse 'cat divorced' him, and Squilf was practically a mother to his daughter Sparkpelt. Bramble feels like he's losing control of his life and blames Squirrelflight for a good amount of it-- and you know what happens when he feels like he's not in control.

I think at the start of this book... Squilf is even considering getting back with him. But obviously, by the end, she firmly realizes she never needed him at all.

And the Trial...

The point of the trial in the original SH is to give Squirrelflight and Leafpool a reckoning with their lies, because the original book condemns the two of them for it. Obviously, I don't agree. I don't think she did anything wrong-- and in my rewrite with the Queen’s Rights, her actions aren't condemnable in StarClan either.

So instead, I think I'll use this to put her actions with the Sisters on trial. Instead of the council weakly concluding, "well, we all broke the code so we cant be mad at you guys for breaking it either idk" it's more of a treatise on if StarClan will abide by the way Squirrelflight applies Fire Alone as an ideology, extending it to outsiders.

And speaking of outsiders, Scourge died in OotS fighting Tigerstar. In Squirrelflight’s Horror, he replaces Blade as the cat she speaks to after the rockslide, helping guide her to StarClan. He chooses not to live there, but he can still show her the way.

He does note, offhandedly, that the way has gotten longer since he last visited. "Perhaps I should stay there for a while this time... it would be a terrible thing to not be able to find my way back." Foreshadow Ashfur messing with StarClan's borders

[everybody-loves-purdy]

Graystripe died only very recently and both kits from his first litter went from being victims of TigerClan to saviors, never mind that the code is only just now being far more lenient when it comes to swapping. With all this in mind, I'm really not surprised that the story is still well known and cats from different Clans swap stories all the time. My point is, there are plenty of reasons for why the story could still be kept alive, even if how it's brought up in the book does seem pretty clunky at best.

Mapleshade, however, isn't really that good of a comparison to make since I don't think anyone would want to remember a cat who went on a killing spree after the kits she had with an unfaithful mate died following her exile by a leader who'd been too clouded by his own grief to enact a less harsh punishment, if only out of shame from both sides. In ThunderClan, her memory was kept alive for apparently as long as Nettlebreeze was since Goosefeather had never heard of her before meeting her, and though we don't know the circumstances in RiverClan, they'd still have even less reason to think about her since she wasn't one of them and her actions affected them the least, unless you count Cloudberry moving to ThunderClan and Reedshine probably raising her kits alone, but I like to believe not many cats mourned Appledusk, either.

I feel like Mapleshade probably should have been a much bigger deal as long as Pinestar was alive given that this is his personal family history but she was just forgotten? Also why wasn’t it a story passed down in Crookedstar’s family about how great grandpa was murdered by a jealous ThunderClan she-cat?

My point is just that historical events that happened the early arcs tend to be very well remembered despite most or if not all the cats being directly involved being dead. It’s not even like they’re misinterpreted it’s like these cats have historical records somewhere.

But yeah I can buy that ThunderClan and RiverClan could know the Graystripe story but SkyClan for sure would just be sitting there like “Graystripe did what 70 cat years ago?” And “oh Graystripe is that dead light in the mist ThunderClan elder? I forgot his name for ages”

[blimbo-buddy]

Goosefeather 4 honest asks 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️

Hopefully I did your favorite old man justice, Goobie sexuality headcanon: Honestly I can really just imagine him as anything. If I had to choose specifically though, probably bisexual with a male preference. Honestly though, I can see Gay GooseFeather 100%

gender/pronouns headcanon: They/He Nonbinary probably, maybe with some She/Her sprinkled in but only allows close friends/family to refer to him as those pronouns

rate them out of ten: solid 6.5/10, he doesn't cross my mind often but I still enjoy him enough!

favorite thing about them: Everything. What is wrong with him (affectionate)

least favorite thing about them: Thought that bit with him in SpottedLeaf's super edition was kinda... blugh (granted that entire super edition was blugh).. but I can't think of anything else

why i first started liking/disliking them: I dunno. Saw him and went "you're cool"

do i relate/project onto/kin them?: No not really

favorite quote/moment: I like his beef with TigerKit it's funny. Grandpa that is a toddler.

my fav ship: Honestly they're all. Decent enough (sorry goobie)

my fav platonic friendship: Wait does he have friends in canon

a ship i hate: I don't know, anything gross/weird I guess

do i prefer canon or fanon?: mix of both I guess? canon brings an interesting setup to him but fanon just feels like it expands it more sometimes

random headcanon: After everything he's went through, he kind of regrets not becoming a kittypet. He has a hunch that everybody in Thunderclan felt the same way, they were all just too prideful to admit it.

what color do i picture them as: Grey-ish brown I suppose

cat breed headcanon: Kind of like a Lykoi but with really long and shaggy fur

unpopular opinion: I don't have any lol

things i associate with them: freezing cold room, mold, flickering lightbulb in a dim room, stale bread

song i associate with them: I don't have any

favorite MAP/PMV/AMV with them: There was one but it's been a while since I've seen it. It had this surreal aura to it and I think it focused on GooseFeather during that Thunderclan starvation period

[lilyblossomzx]

So I'm Thinking about a Snowstar AU (A Evil Snowfur AU) Inspired by QueenBluestar and Yuki!

After Watching Lion Eyes: Snowstar AU, This Actually gives me A lot Ideas for a Snowstar AU, But I'm going to do a lot of Things which are not Canon or Canon,There might be OCS in the story so be warned

Mapleshade's Vengeance's is Canon, But with a Change,Since Birchface and His Mate Softfeather(OC) had Nymphflower and Glaciereye before his death, Leaving Softfeather devasted, I'm Also Planning Frecklewish's Redemption Arc, but I'm going to need help with writing, But In the End Frecklewish saves Reedshine from Mapleshade and goes to Starclan due to her Redemption

Crookedstar's promise Is also Canon However His Mother Rainflower gets Karma,Echomist helps Crookedjaw to Speak up and says that what he went through by Mother, Hailstar Exiles Rainflower, After she Attempted To get the Dogs to the Riverclan Camp, She gets Killed by the dogs and she goes to the Dark Forest after that plan backfired

Goosefeather's Curse is Semi-Canon,Him seeing Starclan cats and Prophecies and Becoming a Medicine Cat is Canon he’ll be a med cat bc he wants to be one, but overall, what happens in the novella won’t be a thing. mostly pairings and whatnot, bc I find Thrushpelt, Tawnyspots, and Dappletail being littermates absolutely ridiculous considering they’re established to be completely different ages in BP, So I Headcanon Dappletail come from a Single litter of Windflight and Rainfur Along with Tawnyspots of Stormripple and Basilseed while Thrushpelt was a Abandoned kit and was Fostered by Rainfur

Yellowfang's Secret is Canon, Just like the Original Hopekit and Wishkit are Stillborn, Brokenkit and Heatherkit Survives and becomes Brokentail (Later on Brokenstar) and Heatherthorn (Later on a IceClan Deputy and Later on Leader of IceClan of the Name of Heatherstar)

Pinestar's Choice is Not Canon But he Still becomes a Kittypet and Hangs out with Jake and Shanty, But not Mate's with Leopardfoot, Instead Leopardfoot is going to be the Mate of Glacierfoot's Grandson Flamestorm,Who Unfortunately died from a Joint Infection, Mistkit dies from Problems at birth, Tigerkit, Rook-kit and Nightkit Survived and becomes Tigerclaw(Who wasn't evil in this AU at all), Rookflight and Nightshade (Yes Nightkit Survives in my AU and Becomes Cold,Wrathful and Distant from her Brothers and the Others)

Leopardstar's Honor isn't Necessary Canon, She Still Loses her Mother Brightsky and Her Siblings(Lilypadkit (Renamed Oatkit), Waterkit and Carpkit), She didn't become Deputy but Bluefur becomes Crookedstar's Deputy,Much to her Disappointment but proud for her

Tallstar's Revenge is Canon,Left Unchanged

Spottedleaf 's Heart is Not Canon,I Really Don't like it, instead Spottedleaf as Spottedkit Couldn't Decided which to be a warrior or White Mage (Renamed Medicine Cat),But Soralwing's Incident with Deathberries as Soralkit made her Into the Pathway of a White Mage

Redtail's Debt is Not Canon,He is still saved by Tigerclaw from the Hawk as Redpaw, Which means Sunfish lives!(So Rejoice!)

[pumpkinstep]

I don't even think it'll come up. I mean a good chunk of conflict in the newest arc stemmed from clan cats who actively participated and saw with their own two eyes how powerful and dangerous cat hell cats were completely forgetting that event happened and suddenly turning it into ancient history.

The dark forest War happened like maybe a year and a half ago in cat time? and plenty of the cats from that event are still around and were old enough to remember the battle.

These cats, mind you some not all, were I the dark forest themselves and saw how dangerous and powerful these evil cats were.

But somehow, after all of that, after seeing that the dead really can walk among the living and manipulate the living to do their bidding, possession is way too far fetched to a certain degree and it's completely unbelievable that starclan could be weakened and blocked off from the inside due to their own mistakes.

Also I wanna point out that up to this point, the dark forest and star clan have shared the same plane of existence. they have always been side by side and Goosefeather is implied to exist within the space between, belonging neither to starclan nor the dark forest so he freely walks both territories

I mean seriously, where did this sudden lack of faith in starclan come from? how did it become completely unbelievable that not only did the medicine cats, leaders And the light in the mists come back with the same message from starclan and the same knowledge of what went down?

there's this sort of nonsense conflict coming from cats who had witnessed the dark forests corrupting power first hand and like...no one else seems to care or think for themselves about it???

It really doesn't make sense.

Plus it really doesn't feel like the clan cats have a whole lot of agency. They aren't questioning starclan exactly, or really pushing back a whole lot on their way of living for that matter, but there is a lot of squabbling over what is real and who to trust.

now you could probably argue that that makes sense considering a starclan cat went rogue and dominated starclan, killing off their connection to the world of the living, but also nearly destroyed the dark forest with all of his sad boy vibes. But it doesn't seem like this is really the authors intentions, just with how the crux of the ongoing cat racism problem has nothing to do with the trauma of almost losing your ancestors and hell turning your loved ones into monsters.

No, instead, it's about a conflict that happened almost 2 arcs ago.

I mean, yeah, sure, shadowclan was probably the least affected of the whole imposter problem and cat hell issue I guess, in terms of exiling code breaker but still.

We also have to take into consideration that they're now painting riverclan as weak and feeble. The same riverclan that fought and lost warriors over a bunch of warm rocks in the old territory, the same riverclan that was about to start a war over lake water during a drought. WHILE UNDER MISTYSTARS LEADERSHIP

These cats are fierce and capable.

it seems the Erin's have forgotten the hiarchy and social structures of clan life now. Firestar left his clan for moons once and took the clans best hunter with him.

his clan didn't fall to ruin and I highly doubt it was because of graystripes leadership abilities.

he did grow over time as a character but I think he wasn't fit to be in a leadership position after how he treated his apprentice and kits

he just can't commit

I also highly doubt Mistystar and her son? husband?? were running things all by themselves as the rest of the clan lazed around and forgot what it meant to be a warrior.

the social structure of power has always been for leadership,

Leader

Deputy

Senior warriors

Medicine cats

but for some reason the senior warriors are helpless and can barely function without being told how function

haha

so in short

I think they'll either forget about the whole dark forest training thing and act like it never happened, or twist it into some convoluted unnecessary plot that will only result in a conflict that could have been avoided by clear and concise communication

the majority of clans have former dark forest trainees in leadership positions...do you think their relations will be friendlier since so many of them became friends through their training or will it be worse because the erins dont care about continuity like that

[warrior-cats-rants-galore]

Do you have any rants and rambles on Bluestar?

BLUESTAR

Absolutely! There's so much about her that it's hard to condense into one post. Overall, I liked her to a degree.

I wished her development with Oakheart was better and that it wasn't just a one night stand. If their relationship was more fleshed out, it would better help Bluestar understand the mental anguish she went through when dumping Oakheart and her kits.

I don't blame or hate on Bluestar for not loving Thrushpelt back. It's hard to choose who you love, and you can't force someone to reciprocate feelings. I dislike when the fandom shits on her for this.

I do not think that Bluestar's actions in her super-edition were necessary. I think there could've been a way around it, such as explaining to Sunstar of the omens surrounding Thistleclaw. Sunstar was a reasonable leader, and I'm sure he'd understand. Though, I also understand why Bluestar did what she did. She was under tremendous pressure, and she felt like it was the only way.

One issue I have with Bluestar, and this is definitely the writers' fault, is her trust in Tigerclaw. It doesn't seem believable that she'd trust Thistleclaw's former apprentice who literally beat the shit out of a kitten. The writing in Bluestar's Prophecy could've portrayed Bluestar doing something to intervene. Additionally, we had Goosefeather yelling about a kitten being evil. Bluestar seemed to have some form of trust in her uncle, so why would she respect this supposedly damned kit? That's just bad writing on the Erins part, not her as a character.

If her and Tigerclaw's relationship was written better, her mental decline could've had a bigger impact. Nonetheless, I really like her downfall and its portrayal. She is angry at StarClan, but her actions to "get back at StarClan" only hurt her Clan. She didn't name Brightpaw 'Lostface' just to be an asshole. She was upset and grieving. It was something about how her name would be a reminder of StarClan's failures. I don't remember exactly, but it was lowkey sad. I also understand why she refused to give warrior names to some of the apprentices. Longtail, Darkstripe, and co. were often associated with Tigerclaw, so it's reasonable that she'd connect those dots. Unfortunately, it was at the expense of others.

Later on, she suffers character assassination like many StarClan characters. There's a prologue where she bitches about Feathertail being chosen for the journey. Why would she be concerned when Feathertail was literally trained by one of her kits?

I give her character points for AT FIRST supporting Leafpool, but then it flops in Squirrelflight's Hope. If I remember correctly, she condemns Leafpool and Squirrelflight for doing what StarClan told them to. It was the most disappointing show of hypocrisy in the books. Like, Bluestar, you had half-Clan kits, and you gave them up for your Clan. In a sense, you had Oakheart lie for you. I wish she would've argued for Leafpool and Squirrelflight rather than argue against them.

I have mixed feelings for Bluestar. She's usually a hot topic in the fandom, and I cannot pick a side.

If I missed or mixed up anything, feel free to mention/correct it! I don't mind. I haven't read the earlier books in a while, so my memory is definitely fuzzy :')

[seadramonster]

Hi! I saw your Thistleclaw posts, and let me just say, it is SO, so relieving to see someone who doesn't glorify him/downplay his actions. I never liked him, even when he was younger. I keep seeing people bring up that he isn't the first battle-hungry cat, say he isn't as bad as other antagonists, say that Bluestar is worse, that he would've mellowed with age, or basically don't count CP because it was written later on. None of this changes anything!

Thank you, anon! Honestly Thistleclaw as a character is starting to grow on me and he’s quickly going up there in my top favorites, but the fandom has sort of soured my view on him. I can absolutely understand them, since we hardly see him being bloodthirsty, but I realized something after making that post that I’ll bring up later on.

(so sorry for the mini essay I just have a lot of thoughts about this series)

As for him being not as bad as the others, that’s something I actually agree with. The reason for that is because:

Darktail, Tigerstar, Scourge, Mapleshade, One-Eye: Serial killers and or dictators. Darktail destroyed entire Clans. Tigerstar attempted to do this, killed multiple cats, including his own Clanmates. Scourge was more or less a dictator who had cats killed if they lived together. Mapleshade killed multiple cats and attempted to kill a pregnant queen. One-Eye was just another Tigerstar.

Brokenstar: Killed his own father for power, murdered children, had child soldiers, attempted to destroy WindClan and drove them out of their home

Darkstripe: Betrayed his clan, attempted murder against former Clan, also tricked a child into eating poison

Sol: Manipulative, but overall was rather harmless in the long run. Cats in other places got killed or hurt not directly by him, but because of consequences of his actions. I don’t believe he ever hurt or killed anyone himself and the deaths he caused were mostly an accident

Sharptooth: A mountain lion who probably shouldn’t be listed here but a cat’s a cat, big or not, so I’m including them. Killed tribe cats to eat them and for fun I think?

Hawkfrost: Tigerstar 2.0, although with less killing. He never directly harmed any cats in his own Clan, but wanted to carry on Tigerstar’s legacy by uniting the four Clans into two with him and Bramblestar ruling them. Convinced Ashfur to lure Firestar into a trap, was a manipulative bastard towards his own sister, and attempted to kill Bramblestar

Ashfur: Tried to murder three innocent cats because he got dumped by a cat who realized she didn’t love him (and it’s also, you know, bad for both people for a person to stay in a relationship where they don’t love the other. I know, I’ve been in that situation. You’re miserably because you’re not happy and prolonging breaking up in hopes maybe your feelings will change only hurts the other person more.). Also lured his leader into a fox trap. Also you know, the whole possession thing, which by now it’s obviously him.

Thistleclaw: An extremist who wanted to destroy the other Clans because, in his eyes, that was the only way to keep ThunderClan safe.

Do you see what he’s up against? Yeah, he isn’t as bad as the other villains, but that’s because most of the other villains are literal serial killers who seem to always be in a competition to one-up each other in evilness. Compared to the other villains, him wanting to destroy the other Clans is almost normal. We never actually saw him kill anyone, we were just told that would happen if he had become leader. While I believe he did or at least attempted to, we don’t know if he ever killed another cat.

I feel like if he had become leader it would have been a Woundwort situation; his Clan was safe, but he was so intent on making/keeping it safe that he did more harm than good by throwing them into unnecessary wars to destroy/drive out their rivals.

A little bit of extra info:

I feel like the reason people say he might have mellowed out is because in one of the guides when Snowfur takes Mosskit to StarClan, a StarClan cat says he might calm down and make a good deputy/leader. We saw a similar rift in the fandom over how Ashfur died when Bramblestar’s fake story of how it was an accident was written to be true in another side book (I think the Ultimate Guide?), when in the main books we know Hollyleaf killed Ashfur on purpose.

StarClan knows a lot, but they aren’t all-knowing. They can’t always tell what a cat’s entire life will be like. But you know who can? Goosefeather.

I mentioned in that post that Goosefeather’s power might not have been planned out then, but it was. I actually forgot the key scene that proved this; the scene where Goosefeather snaps at Tigerkit. In it, he claimed Tiger should have never been born, that he was a monster who would bring destruction to the Clans. He knew what Tigerkit was going to become and had also had a vision of Thistleclaw being covered in blood.

A lot of people also just forget Bluestar didn’t want to give up her kits. Goosefeather is the one who told her to so Thistleclaw wouldn’t be made deputy.

And, yes, Bluestar was a bad leader at the end of her life and she should have stepped down from leadership when her mental health plummeted (I feel like she never actually wanted to be leader and only did so because she felt she had no choice). What she did to Brightheart was horrible. But she never actually wanted to destroy the other Clans like Thistleclaw, she even went so far as to bring back WindClan.

Thank you again, anon! Sorry for the essay

[calronhunt]

Disclaimer all that not disparaging the artists that worked on the map or anything yada yada yada don't take it too seriously im one guy who got traumatized by the wc fandom and is a little hater about it. Okay? Okay.

I know some people like these kinda maps so i put it under a read more. Im very very critical and passionate so this is your last warning.

So is it finally kosher to say that Crookedgoose is fucking weird. Like on concept is fucking weird. And not weird in the like "another au that doesn't make sense lol" (even tho it is) weird in the like. So crookedstar is the cause of his own disability? That's what you wanna go with? And like, I'm glad they didn't erase his disability but like.

The central thing in this story is the moment Crooked becomes disabled, like that's the central thing that ties everything else together, so it's fucking WEIRD when you have goose save crookedkit before he dies but he still slips and breaks his jaw because its like "it'll be weird if we get rid of it" but its also weird here too because this just means in this infinite death timeloop crooked is ALWAYS the cause/has some part in giving his younger self his disability and the implications of that feel! Just a tad odd! And I don't think there's a correct answer for "fixing" this, i think the concept in general is fuckinh weird and bad scrap it dude.

Other weird things i just have. Crookedstar is a super important character for me so I am biased but just a couple more things i think are odd

1) super cool for you to take the like only prominent disabled character who isn't a healer and make him into a healer. Idc if goose's not a healer in this au you looked at a disabled character in canon and you looked at a healer character in canon and went "oh my god theyre the same person"

2) its cool that crookedstar, as a character,'s only importance in this story is to become disabled and die and then get turned into goosefeather. Like him in his original body need to become disabled and die and that's all thats important here. That's super cool.

3) you people love babying mapleshade so much it's insane. It's always "crookedstar needs to make up for the sins of his ancestors" and not "crookedstar doesn't need to heal the pain of a woman who abused, tormented, and hurt him and his loved ones his whole life for the crimes of his forefather." Like that's literally what his manga at the end of his super edition is. It's him telling mapleshade that she hurt him in life but she won't in death. He'll be surrrounded by loved ones and she'll rot alone. I don't know where this fucking idea of him feeling the need to help mapleshade came from but i hope it dies. You don't need to heal your abusers pain, fuck off.

Okay i think all of that is out of my system. That's all. Have a good day.

Gonna be a wc fandom hater in a little bit because i watched 1 popular au map and ive been jokerified.

[goosefeathers-kinhelp]

Could I have a pendulum reading for Ashfur and Frecklewish(TC)?

<positive>It's amusing to see a Frecklewish. There are plenty of Mapleshades but a Frecklewish, that is interesting.</positive>

---

Ashfur - I Don't Know to canon, I Don't Know to non-canon

Things feel really foggy here. I don't feel a pull in any direction, it's just... Ashfur. My only two cents is that I think you were like me and did not stay in Thunderclan, but I think you went to Riverclan (I did ask Jerry and he gave a soft yes). But this can go any way and in any direction, or in no direction at all.

Frecklewish - Soft Yes to canon, No Answer for non-canon

I was shoved into the river crossing scene. You didn't just watch it, did you? I'm also pulled to the theory that Frecklewish wanted to make sure the kits died and was sent to The Dark Forest upon her death.

That’s both of them! I hope this helps in any way. Remember, Jerry is just a guide. Do not take his answers to heart.

~Goosefeather

[fabricnotice]

Ik I said I was gonna restart the series but decided to read Goosefeather's book for fun and like what medicine cats are supposed to know in relation to typical warrior training is so damn confusing. Just from memory medicine cats only know how to look for herbs / communicate w/ Starclan in the first series, I think at some point it's mentioned that Shadowclan teaches their medicine cats how to fight to fit their edgy look. Then we get more scenes of medicine cats sometimes hunting and that absolutely shocking some warriors, esp when it comes to Leafpaw when we see her hunt a bit. When Leafpool is demoted from medicine cat and made a warrior it's noted that she's weaker bc she had to learn how to properly hunt and fight.

So most of the series it feels like medicine cats went from just not having any kind of warrior cat training to at least having basic hunting skills but in Goosefeather's book w/ the badger scene I don't understand why Moonpaw is so angry at Goosefeather for not being able to defend himself. Medicine cats aren't supposed to have any warrior skills, even basic fighting ones I can't remember any medicine cat who wasn't a warrior first ever being noted to be a good fighter. What is the point in bringing it up at all it's such a weak point to make " Goosefeather how dare you not have the knowledge or skills that don't match to the role yr in yr a burden on us all "

[mallowstep]

@brindlestorm

I’m assuming your anon meant my analysis, haven’t seen any others myself. I admit that even though I did want to stay neutral it’s still pretty biased towards Moonflower but I took the time to type up direct quotes from the books when I wrote that analysis, even including details that don’t add anything to it but was kept in because it was part of the writing process.

as stated, i don't want to respond in any meaningful detail until i've had a chance to fully read it, but first of all, major props to your dedication, just to start.

second, at least out of what i've read, i feel like i mostly agree with what you've got, and i don't like...

urgh see the thing is at this very moment i'm trying to keep myself from writing too much bc of upcoming finals. but. i have a lot to say so i'm trying to take the opportunity to do so.

anyway my quick and dirty response is,

i think there's a conflation of two ideas going on between, "moonflower/hawkheart was a better/worse cat" and "moonflower/hawkheart was in the right/wrong during that particular moment."

because YES hawkheart was a worse cat and YES he was wrong in the surrounding moments and WOW was he unnecessarily cruel to bluepaw.

BUT when it comes to the SPECIFIC INSTANCE of "how moonflower dies," i don't think he was in the wrong.

any more to say and i'll break my own damn finals week rules, but i'll leave with what i've tried to finish every part of the discussion with, and that's that i just don't think hawkheart and moonflower are actually the parties we ought to be comparing, because moonflower isn't making a moral decision the same way hawkheart is. her role in the attack and subsequent death is not her choice, it's a product of two medicine cats who hate each other making varying levels of bad decisions.

also send me the analysis please as you all know i have read bluestar's prophecy so many times my discord mood a few moods back was "why do people argue abt bsp with me i have that book memorized" because i adore it and would love to either enjoy analysis or get an excuse to write up a post about moonflower

[thunder-the-ranger-wolf]

What made you want to talk about this? You're right, by the way, though I didn't see Alderheart as having anxiety until Raging Storm whacked me over the head with a personality change. I was able to recognize it then because when I get asked to do something for someone else, I gotcha. If I have to ask someone for a favor? All the alarms go off and if it's bad enough it gets shelved for another day.

I think how Bluestar reacted to Brightheart was supposed to be a bone of contention. Like, yes, she twisted this previously honorable naming tradition and forced it on this young cat "to get back at StarClan" in-story she would have every reason to last our due to what's happening to her Clan and the attempt on her life. As readers, those who can recognize the signs know there's something more at play. Even earlier in her life she reacted negatively to her life (and ugh, please don't get me started on the choices the authors had her make!) She had to be forced to face her destiny. Speaking as someone who has literally stayed in bed for long times because I didn't have the energy, that sounds like an accurate portrayal of depression. What's funny is that once she got up and started doing things, she went hard as all get-out to the point where Sunstar made her deputy. Granted, there was some favoritism on the parts of Sunstar and Goosefeather, Sunstar wasn't a fool. He could have picked any cat. And Bluestar eventually proved herself worthy. Which I like. Her devolvement in the first series is a bigger version of how she reacted when she lost the rest of her family in Bluestar's Prophecy. Since she definitely did almost die plenty of times in Tigerclaw's attempts on her life (and did eventually lose remaining lives to his schemes) it's not entirely out of character.

Did she fuck up royally with her reactions? Hell yeah. Brightheart deserved better, even if she and Swiftpaw were foolish in their courage. The Clan deserved a more active leader that trusted them and pulled them together in trying times. What they got was a cat who despised them and united them for all the wrong reasons. All things considered, Bluestar is pretty great, probably because she was such a flawed character.

We all know that there isn’t that much representation in Warriors. There are few lgbt+ cats, none have been explicitly written, the disability representation is selective and poor, and there is very little mental illness representation. So the characters who are neurodivergent/lgbt+/disabled need to be celebrated! But unfortunately, this isn’t the case with this fandom. I’m specifically talking about mentally ill cats because there’s a frightening theme in this fandom. That’s right, folks. I’m calling bullshit.

There are three mentally ill cats I’m going to talk about. There are many characters who can be headcanoned with a mental illness but these three characters, in particular, are criticised or celebrated for their mentally ill symptoms. Let’s talk about Alderheart. Alderheart hasn’t been confirmed to have generalised anxiety or any kind of anxiety disorder but he clearly suffers from high levels of anxiety and him having G.A.D is generally accepted throughout the fandom. People love this guy! People love the fact that he’s anxious. They can relate, and it “makes him cute.” It’s endearing! But two other characters have not been met with that same reception.

Palebird is the only character confirmed to have a mental illness. Kate Cary stated on her blog that Palebird suffered from postnatal depression which was furthered by her grief for Finchkit’s death. This is clearly shown in canon. Though it wasn’t in focus, Palebird seemed tired and sad all the time. Tallkit had to be careful not to exhaust her or upset her. It showed her healing over time with the help of Woollytail and her new kits and finally being happy. Now, I’d think this could be something relatable for readers. Depression is incredibly common, and while readers wouldn’t have Postnatal Depression and most likely have Major Depression or Persistent Depressive Disorder, they are both depressive disorders and therefore share a lot of the same symptoms. I also thought readers would be happy that there’s actually some canon mental illness representation - but I was very wrong. Readers disliked Palebird because she was emotionally distant to Tallkit, a symptom of her disorder, calling her a horrible parent and even abusive. She gets more hate than Sandgorse, which I find absolutely absurd. I completely and utterly disagree with all this hate.

The last character I want to mention is Bluestar. Bluestar is the most blatant mentally ill cat in this series. She undergoes a significant change in personality and behaviour. Vicky Holmes stated on Facebook that Bluestar had dementia, which I disagree with one hundred percent. Bluestar had some of the symptoms, yes, but those symptoms fit the diagnosis criteria of ptsd much better. I could give you a full analysis, I’ve done it before. Because I’m a nerd. But it really comes down to a few things. Bluestar’s actual memory was fine. Dementia affects memory. Graypool showed a much better representation of dementia and she had pretty much one scene! She had wandered away from her Clan and was extremely confused and seemed lost in the past. Bluestar, on the other hand, was paranoid. That paranoia distorted her perception. That paranoia stemmed from a trauma she went through - Tigerclaw’s treachery and attempted murder of herself. Dementia has links with trauma but nothing concrete has been discovered yet. But enough about that. Bluestar has ptsd and clearly displays ptsd symptoms. It’s obvious she’s suffering greatly. But does Bluestar get given with sympathy? No. Fucking Scourge gets more kindness then she does. The fandom hated this change in Bluestar. “I loved Bluestar until she went crazy,” “Bluestar got so annoying omg.” “Bluestar was selfish” “Bluestar was such a drama queen!” This change in character elicited no positive response but rather an outcry of hate.

Yeah, but what’s the problem here? They’re different characters and they act differently. Two of them hurt others and their actions are harmful, irrational, and, well, bad. The other doesn’t. Bluestar and Palebird portray ugly symptoms! Alderheart doesn’t, he’s cute, he’s a little softboi.

Here’s the thing though: mental illness is ugly. It isn’t pretty, it isn’t cute, and it sure as hell isn’t uwu softboi. It isn’t “my poor smol bean.” Praising one character for their mental illness while condemning others is hypocritical. You are not being an advocate for preaching about how Alderheart is a great character because of his anxiety whole simultaneously shitting on Bluestar and Palebird for exhibiting negative symptoms. In doing so you are actively harming mentally ill people by supporting only a romanticised narrative of mental illness. By only accepting the mental illnesses that you deem “socially acceptable,” you are being horribly ableist. Hey, it’s like in real life, when people preach about how they support people with depression and anxiety but turn around and call people with borderline personality disorder and schizophrenia abusive demons. Mental illness isn’t fucking cute. It isn’t a good thing. It should be portrayed as a negative thing because that’s what it is, generalised anxiety included. Mental illnesses are ugly. They’re hurting other people with paranoid accusations. They’re being so disconnected from others that you’re being neglectful to their needs. They’re being irrational. They’re frightening.

I’m not saying we should praise mentally ill behaviours. But we should have sympathy for characters like Bluestar and Palebird. We should say, “hey, this behaviour isn’t right and it’s hurting others! But I understand it’s rooted in mental illness and while that doesn’t excuse the behaviour, I recognise it’s a symptom of a mental health issue and I hope this character recovers and gets help. I’m really happy the authors gave us mental illness representation because that’s important!” I’m also not saying that we shouldn’t have likable mentally ill characters. Positive representation is a good thing! There are plenty of mentally ill people who exhibit symptoms and are still good people. All I’m saying is that we shouldn’t treat mental illness in characters like a desirable thing to have or an adorable personality trait. You cannot say “I like this character because they give us mental illness rep,” and then say: “not this one because they’re a meanie.” Mental illnesses can be scary. We shouldn’t pretend they’re not. We can’t demand something and then reject it because it doesn’t fit our idealised version of that said thing. that we should be happy with what representation we get and acknowledge this!

There is a difference between a negative portrayal and an actively dangerous and stigmatizing portrayal. A negative portrayal of mental illness, in this case, would be a character who hurts others because of their mental illness but is still shown to be human, have likable traits, and is an accurate portrayal, like Palebird. A stigmatizing and inaccurate portrayal is what we should be condemning, like the awful attempt at portraying Dissociative Identity Disorder in the movie Split.

At the end of the day, I just think it’s so hypocritical the way the fandom treats the mentally ill characters written into the books. All of them deserve acknowledgement and all of them should be received with sympathy, especially because all of them recover, which shows that while they were negative portrayals of mental illness and were hurtful to others, they were capable of getting better and righting their wrongs, which is such an important message and so accurate to those suffering from mental health issues. Bluestar’s recovery was… inaccurate but at least it happened. Palebird’s was pretty well executed! Romanticising mental illness isn’t at all okay and you’re not a mental health advocate by doing so. You’re not helping the community, you’re harming it. You don’t have to like Bluestar and Palebird. But give those lovely ladies the props they deserve!

(I’d also like to mention that Alderheart being a romanticisation of G.A.D is not a fault of the authors as they didn’t write him to have clinical anxiety! It was just a widespread headcanon that proved my point. Another point to note is that this isn’t about younger fandom members who can’t grasp the complexity of Bluestar’s character and instead just sees her as a drama queen or annoying. This is about readers who can identify mental illness in characters and praise Alderheart while not treating Bluestar and Palebird equally.)