#i don't really think about noncanon ships but like

[jess-the-vampire]

You know it's stuff like this why I partly can't join the owl house fandom. The fandom seems to persnickety about liking certain charactersand headcanons, especially as someone who has dealt with similar shit before in my other fandoms. Granted there are other reasons I hate the fandom, but this is the worst one. It kinda soured the show for me, granted I never cared for it, but they just worsening it for me.

At times like these, i think it's important to remember posts like this

Bigger fandoms, will always end up looking worse by comparison, it's inevitable unfortunately.

For me, this is also unfortunately nothing new, anyone whose been with me since the start knows that.

It was a decade ago, in another fandom, that i was harassed and accused of being homophobic, because i shipped some characters together that wasn't the popular same sex ship.

I shipped plenty of other same sex ships, heck, i considered the characters in question to be bisexual. But that did not stop me from being publicly mocked, harassed, and put on block lists.

I was underage at the time, this was my first fandom experience, and it also soured that fandom for me, even the show itself.

People go into these things, thinking they're protecting people, or helping others.

And on the surface, i could see how one would think that.

But you're really not, people are not that simple, and neither are what they enjoy or are drawn to.

I was a teenager having fun in my own little space, with a ship i knew was noncanon, and it wouldn't of taken much research to find out i had no issue with the lgbt community at all, but no, it was "You are erasing us, you only ship this because you hate gay people, you're a horrible human being and yada yada yada-"

now, a decade later, it's "You are ignoring the poc cast because you're racist, you only like this character and are invested in him because you believe in what he believes in, you're a racist and sexist being for enjoying him and yada yada-"

Look, people do this because they want to protect people who have been screwed for centuries, it's perfectly understandable to worry that people who think belos is a cool character could like him for the wrong reasons. But people who genuinely think this way are a minority, and will be way more outspoken about those beliefs, is the solution here really to go up to anyone who likes something you don't and ruin them without evidence? To accuse them all of horrible beliefs?

this entire belief system removes the possibility of many MANY other reasons people enjoy media, and is straight up jumping to conclusions that if someone doesn't fundamentally agree with what you think, they MUST be a bad person. No critical thinking, no trying to understand others, just straight up assuming things.

Which btw, ironically, is actually acting WAY more like belos then anything the artists doing wittober were actually doing. Even the idea people are making art about his childhood and therefore sympathizing with him falls apart because there have been just as much art about his crimes so far.

Belos is a villain in a cartoon, people have latched onto villain characters since the dawn of time, it's nothing new. If you're going to keep this train of thought going....is disney just bad for their villian brand? are people also horrible for similar reasons if they have a favorite disney villian?

This entire thought process can be applied anywhere if you try hard enough.

Which is the kinda thing that allows actual human beings to be genuinely hurt here.

like are people going to be hurt more because people make aus with belos, or are they going to be hurt more because people who make said aus are accused or being racist people worth scrutinizing?

This thought process also doesn't take into the account of the fact that the people who like belos, might also be lgbt or poc, which....a lot of them are from my experience.

You can't both preach the show's message of accepting people who are different from you, and then also try and justify harassing people because they fandom differently then you. Unless the wittebane people are actively spouting out racist and sexist stuff, they're not doing anything wrong by engaging in the parts of the fandom that interest them.

Not everyone will be drawn to the show for the same reasons, you always gotta remember that, everyone has different favorite characters, different ships, and different things that make them happy.

Fandom is meant to be fun, people make aus because they're fun, they want to play with the media they like and do new things with it.

I strongly doubt everyone who has made an au staring hunter, or belos, or who thinks the wittebanes are interesting, sat down and said "Man, i like this show, but there are too much minorities in it, i hate minorities, i should make an au removing them or draw the wittebanes because they are white".

as a fan of these characters myself, i like them, but don't care too deeply about the blights, other white popular characters. I feel that should imply my investment in them has a lot more to do with other aspects then race.

in fact this makes me wonder if the person complaining in the tags would have the same argument about aus staring eda or amity in the same vain, even though hunter eda and amity are all lgbt, and two are disabled.

If you are doing stuff like this, either don't engage with stuff that doesn't interest you, because it's really weird to be this obsessed with a part of the fandom you don't care about.

or maybe, actually try to understand why people like it, rather then assume it's for the wrong reasons.

just my thoughts.

[birdmitosis]

What are your opinions on selfcest?

(I need to answer so many asks in my inbox... I'm sorry this is late! I will be late again/some more!!)

But I really wanted to finally get around to this one because I actually have some very specific thoughts on selfcest, which is that I feel like it would be... not necessarily "more liked," because people like what they like and are into what they're into, people are squicked by what they're squicked by, etc... but seen as less scandalous if it didn't have "-cest" as part of the name.

To elaborate, I don't think it has any similarities to incest unless the specific individual characters in question outright do think of their "other selves" in a familial way. In many cases this just isn't the case, however -- the relationship doesn't map that way in canon itself, or the other selves are totally noncanonical in the first place. I can think of some exceptions (Galerians, where almost all the clones of one particular person think of one another as siblings, including the one who was raised separately and didn't know about any of that so doesn't feel a sibling bond with them but they still seem to consider him one) but in many cases, that's just not what's going on. It's clones, or a changeling, or a time loop, or a multiverse, or something else where the canon doesn't portray them as feeling any sort of familial bond -- and where sometimes the canon actually outright makes a point to show or talk about how different they are.

And to explain even further... I think my view on selfcest is influenced by the fact that for a couple of decades now, my views on selfhood have been such that... I don't think "self"cest inherently feels self enough to feel offputting to me, either. Yes, you can have situations where someone looks at a clone or alternate universe version of themself and goes "that's 100% me" in a way that never really treats the other like their own person, and in that case it wouldn't appeal to me... But even since I was a teenager, I've always considered that if one person was suddenly two people, the second person unavoidably becomes their own person from the moment of separation, the moment either of them says or does anything that starts to develop them in a different direction from the other. And a lot of the time "selfs" in selfcest are even more different than that: Think of the Spider-Verse movies, for instance, or the possible interactions between a Transformer and their alternate universe selves if you crossed some of the cartoons and comics together. Pavitr Prabhakar and Peter B. Parker just do not feel like the same person; neither do EarthSpark Arcee and Transformers Animated Arcee and IDW comics Arcee.

TL;DR though, uh, I have to assume you're asking me because of Slay the Princess. 😅 In which case that was a really long and roundabout way of saying... Honestly, I don't even think "selfcest" applies in STP. (Mostly, at least.) While the voices are all parts of the Long Quiet (and the vessels are all parts of the Shifting Mound), they are different enough people that they necessitate their own names, they have different relationships with one another, they disagree with one another to the point of dislike at times, their actions if they could act on their own would be VERY different, and especially once they have their own bodies I just don't register them as the same person anymore. And I truly think the game backs me up on this, because... the Shifting Mound and the Long Quiet also used to be the same being originally. Go back far enough and arguably any ship that isn't the Narrator/one of the other characters is selfcest! But it so doesn't feel that way to me, not even to the extent that most people mean it.

I have the occasional selfcest ship, but long story short, voices shipping and vessel shipping doesn't actually feel like selfcest to me at all* if that makes sense.

[sokkastyles]

I have a question, I know we know that shipping does not equal morality. And I get that, and I really like that. However, on my other blog, that should have been my main blog (yes I am that dumb). I have talked about Aang's non-consensual and criticized how Kataang is written, however, if you ship Kataang I won't come for your throat because that's not my style. I know the few misogynists/antis on here and on Twitter, and I don't want to let a few bad apples be my impression of a fandom, that's not fair, So now I'm side-eyeing myself over my past remarks. Likewise, I know shipping is not equal to morality, but I also want to criticize Kataang because of how flawed it is and how wrong that kiss was (and other things). I have no idea what I'm saying because at this point I'm rambling. What do you think?

Well, there is a difference between criticizing a ship and criticizing canon. I don't honestly care what people ship. I use the antikataang tag because I don't want to argue with people who do ship it, but that doesn't mean I won't be critical of what is in the show. I think expecting people not to engage critically with media is absolute nonsense. But there is a difference between engaging critically with the actual media and criticizing people's fanon or headcanons, which is where you get away from critically engaging with canon and move into the area of criticizing other people's opinions, which is how arguments start.

Like, there isn't really any actual concrete argument you can make to criticize zutara, because zutara does not exist in canon. It's all fanon and headcanons and speculation. And criticizing other people's opinions just makes you look like a dick.

You also have to take into account the intention behind something. The thing about the way Katara's relationship with Aang is presented is that we're supposed to root for Aang to get Katara, and every obstacle towards that end is just there to create dramatic tension for the male point of audience identification. That's the real problem with the noncon kiss, and people who are critical of it are right to point it out.

In contrast, when I say shipping isn't morality, I'm talking about people who write, let's say, dubcon zutara fics. Fanfiction as a genre is largely female-centered fantasy. Yes, even those lurid fics you're thinking of. People write and read these fics for completely different reasons and have completely different expectations than when watching a series like ATLA. Trying to say that someone can't criticize the way the show presents Aang kissing Katara after she said she was confused as a mistake to be glossed over (that is forgotten as soon as it happens) because they also happen to like reading darkfic is nonsense. There's also a long history of women's interests being policed that informs my views here, vs the fact that consent has only fairly recently become a conversation in mainstream media. You have only to look at the way the show itself portrays Katara having interests (especially in boys) outside of Aang as dark and dangerous to see this happening in ATLA itself. Or the way the creators got away with saying that zutara shippers are doomed to end up in abusive relationships while painting Aang as a typical Nice Guy stereotype who expects Katara to magically become his girlfriend (and gets angry when she doesn't) and seeing nothing wrong with it.

The thing is that zutara, if we look at the way it's written in canon as a metaphor for a romantic relationship, follows the same tradition of how fanfiction has historically existed as an exploration of romantic and sexual dynamics. Those conversations about consent are actually happening and being explored in fanfiction, even the dark stuff, whereas relationships that are presented as "wholesome" often push us to NOT have those conversations. So when I say shipping isn't morality, what I actually mean is that noncanon shipping and darkfic actually has more of a moral leg to stand on than uncritically engaging with relationships on the grounds that Aang is the hero so his goodness and worthiness to get the girl should just be assumed. Zuko has to work for his right to be in a relationship with Katara because he didn't start out from a place of goodness, and that, on its own, is very female centered because instead of starting out from the perspective of the male hero deserving a relationship by virtue of being the hero, we see the idea that a man has to work to gain a woman's respect and affection.

So it's not so much that I hate KA, but I hate the idea that we should engage in it uncritically. And that would be true even if it really was the most wholesome relationship in the world. The same thing cannot be true of zutara because even the darkest of darkfic are about women centering themselves in the narrative and engaging with power dynamics in ways that are subverting patriarchal norms about relationships by definition.

[novelconcepts]

i'm the same anon who asked abt the tattoo, so. you can be as controversial as you want, but could i ask why taivan is not as prominent/noticeable in comparison to shaunahat, or fanon ships? like, your opinion. because, genuinely, as much as i see their scenes and ppl cheering for them, idk, it's not as HARD and LOUD if that makes sense. thank you in advance!

I dunno about controversial--I'm never actively trying to be a shit-starter, I just. My honest take is twofold. One, people are definitely being steered by racism. I mean, I see that just in the way Jasmin is constantly under fire no matter what she does or says. This is a biracial Black queer person (noticed recently she's operating with she/they pronouns, playing in the gender sandbox, and good for them) who is clearly always working so hard to better their world and be a voice for the various minority groups she inhabits, and I feel like I'm just constantly seeing people be awful to and about them. Like, constantly finding excuses to set her aside, or send her the worst messages in the world, and I'm just like. Let this person live, for the love of Christ. The inability to not take unearned ownership of someone else's journey is...insane to me, but I feel like I see it constantly with her. So to have Taissa be this incredibly complex Black woman who is not always likeable, not soft and sweet and constantly striving for other people's approval--yeah, I'm not surprised the fandom ignores her. Furious! Always furious about it! But not surprised.

Van, too, gets set aside an awful lot, and that's obviously not about racism (although the interracial couple aspect is there). I think people are...so volatile about Van in ways that will never make sense to me. Half the time people are calling her a villain, the other half they're calling her boring, and in both cases, those people are just not watching the same show I am. Liv's performance is so nuanced and so carefully escalated, and Lauren is following suit; there is so much going on with this character, with Taissa's character, with their growth together and apart, and...yeah, I dunno, man. I think it's a lot of what Tai says onscreen in season one. They're not what people expect, or what people want them to be, so they get written off as "boring" or less appealing than the noncanon ships. Some of it is the racism, some is the complicated nature of gender and Van's butch qualities, and none of it makes sense to me because those aspects are so much of what I love about Taivan as a ship. Like. They are so real, so multifaceted, so good and so toxic for one another at the same time, and they are played by 3/4ths (at least, I don't know Ambrose's life) openly, proudly queer actors. DUDE. For me, that's the fucking dream.

THAT SAID. My other thought is a lot simpler. And that's just: what happens in canon belongs to the writers, and we get to share it. What happens in fanon belongs solely to fandom. The fanon interpretations of characters can be worlds away from the actuality of those characters onscreen, and I think there's a freedom there that a lot of people really love. Subtext has been the bread and butter of queer audiences for so long that I think a lot of viewers just naturally feel more comfortable in that space, reading between lines and making up the necessary filler as they go. It doesn't hurt that a lot of these characters are white and/or conventionally attractive, but I think it's more to do with...not needing to put the canon of it all at the forefront. Like I love Jackie/Shauna, I love Lottie/Nat, I live for Shauna/Lottie--but they're all subtextual relationships, to various degrees, and so I can just sort of...do whatever with them in stories, so long as I'm feeling the characters out. I personally have a preference for writing fic as close as I can to existing character profile/voice, but that's not for everyone, and I've noticed a lot of the fanon-born ships are...not simpler, necessarily, but simplified. Which, in turn, makes them more palatable. I dunno. I get it! I do. But I will never understand throwing aside the canon queer ship in favor of subtext. That just...ain't my bag.

And then I guess there's a third, less prominent idea of like. Who's the main character of the show? If you had to boil it all down, it's Shauna. She's the POV character, if we have one, from the start. So not only do you have the freedom of fan interpretation, but she's front and center a lot of the time just by the nature of the narrative. And then Natalie is probably the next "main" character, so...that speaks for a lot of the louder ships, I suppose. I'd really love to see more attention on Taissa for the same reason, since she's been at the front from the beginning, but...see above, i guess.

[getvalentined]

i want to ask you all of them is that allowed? ALL OF THEM

exercising great restraint, i limited myself to most of them

❤: Which character do you think is the most egregiously mischaracterized by the fandom?

🧡: What is a popular (serious) theory you disagree with?

💛: What is a popular ship you just can't get behind, and why?

💚: What does everyone else get wrong about your favorite character?

🤍: Which character is not as morally bad as everyone else seems to think?

🖤: Which character is not as morally good as everyone else seems to think?

💖: What is your biggest unpopular opinion about the series?

💔: If you had to remove one major character from the series, who would you choose?

💕: What is an unpopular ship that you like?

[ Unpopular Opinion Ask Game ]

I will be putting most of these behind a cut so as not to stretch anyone's dash, but I'll take 'em all!

❤️ · Which character do you think is the most egregiously mischaracterized by the fandom?

Honestly there are so many characters who are grossly mischaracterized by fandom that this is hard to say. I'm going to go with the most popular and most mischaracterized, which is Sephiroth.

This man all but asks permission to have opinions in CC:

Sephiroth: I would prefer not to believe it, but… Zack: Then don't believe it. Sephiroth: Very well, I won't.

He also seeks permission to leave the company:

Sephiroth: […] Depending on what happens, I may abandon Shinra. Zack: [says nothing, but looks at Sephiroth with obvious trepidation, clearly uncomfortable with the option] Sephiroth: …Until then, I'll remain loyal to SOLDIER.

When Zack doesn't respond affirmatively, Sephiroth drops the prospect of leaving and never brings it up again.

This man is not socially confident, nor is he remotely dominant in his behavior. He's not eloquent or debonair, he's quiet and awkward and has been brought up in such a way that he's all but incapable of making decisions for himself. We can very easily blame Hojo for this, controlling and demanding as he is, but for some reason the fandom portrays pre-Nibelheim Sephiroth as some sort of Daddy Dom sex god in spite of the fact that he almost certainly died a virgin.

🧡 · What is a popular (serious) theory you disagree with?

Where do I even start? President Shinra is not Cloud's father. Glenn is also not Cloud's father. The identity of Cloud's father doesn't matter at all, actually! Hojo did not sexually assault Lucrecia to produce Sephiroth. Vincent did not "abandon Sephiroth" to Hojo. Gast was not a good person. Just because the Cetra may actually have been self-important pieces of shit as a culture does not mean Jenova is secretly good. Sephiroth was not born in 1984. This is all extremely stupid.

💛 · What is a popular ship you just can't get behind, and why?

Censored to keep it out of searches, the two that I avoid like the plague are Va|enwind and AG$ZC.

The first because it really bothers me that C!d is canonically abusive toward Shera for half a decade, still manages to get his act together enough that they get married post-Meteorfall, and then Va|enwind shippers straight up act like she either doesn't exist or like she somehow deserved the way he treated her. I've literally discussed this with people and had them assert that nobody likes Shera anyway so it doesn't matter how he treated her, she's "barely relevant to his character" and "easy to ignore." Multiple people have told me that she'll probably be removed from the FF7R series altogether because she just doesn't matter.

I mean, Shera is in the OG, in OTWTAS, and it's revealed that C!d named his new airship after her in AC, and she's mentioned multiple times in Dirge, but sure! Not important at all! The dev team didn't even cut Johnny but they'll absolutely cut C!D'S FUCKING WIFE because she makes him look bad and gets in the way of a popular noncanon ship! That's definitely how this works!

I don't like the Big Polycule because I don't think the character dynamics actually work all together, and most people who write it do so in such a way that everyone seems to be in high school for some reason. Like working for Shinra is the same as high school? As someone who has worked in a corporate setting as an adult, and has family who have been in the military and law enforcement, I find this whole trope to be really strange and it puts me right off.

Further, even if we ignore the canon that Cloud wasn't even on active duty until after both Genesis and Angeal had defected, hadn't even seen either of them in person until Modeoheim (where Zack held Genesis back so Cloud could pursue Hollander and then Angeal beat the shit out of the poor kid to stop said pursuit), and didn't meet Sephiroth until the Nibelheim mission, there's still a lot about it that grinds my gears. This is not shade toward people who don't care about this kind of thing, but I'm personally uncomfortable with the concept of two teenagers (Cloud is 14-16 and Zack is 16-18 prior to Nibelheim) being in a sexual relationship with three adult men who are up to 10 years older and in positions of power over them, particularly how this is always treated in-story like a great thing that is no big deal. If that power dynamic were ever played with or discussed in any way it might be different—I can appreciate some dangerous or unhealthy relationship dynamics in fiction—but I've literally never seen a Big Polycule shipper address it at all. Between that and the characterization mismatch, it just rankles me really bad. (Also, while I'm not particularly squicked out by the fact that Genesis and Angeal are canonically related, I feel like they had some issues with that, and it would definitely fuck up the sexual dynamic there.)

💚 · What does everyone else get wrong about your favorite character?

You already talked about how Vincent is fucking hilarious, and I've talked about it myself in the past, so I won't soapbox about that. Honestly I think that's secondary to the thing that I feel everyone gets the most wrong about Vincent, which is that he's no longer in love with Lucrecia postcanon.

His entire character arc over the course of the series, from BC to Dirge, is him learning that he was wrong about her, she made mistakes, it's her fault he's so fucked up to begin with, and then forgiving her for it. It's him setting aside his idea of her and seeing who she really was, looking past the brilliance of which he speaks so fondly to see the mistakes that only he is still "alive" to pay for—and in doing so, reaching an understanding so deep that he's willing to give her the absolution and release that no force on Gaia can offer to him.

He thanks her for saving him, because he understands that's what she was trying to do, and he is grateful that even if she was never in love with him (which she wasn't) she did love him enough to do that. He's grateful that she loved him enough to throw away years of her life in the attempt to save him, just like he lost his entire life in his attempt to save her. They're foils of each other, but they're over. At the end of Dirge, he thanks her and he leaves, walking into the light for the first time in decades, free of the self-loathing he'd been burdened with by his misunderstanding of Lucrecia.

I think it's a beautiful, bittersweet story, but Vincent's ability to move forward afterward makes it more sweet than bitter. By portraying Vincent as still every bit as obsessive and love-blind as he was up until the events of Dirge, folks do a huge disservice to his character arc. I don't think it's impossible for him to fall for her again postcanon, if she somehow returned to the world of the living (which she won't, she's very clear that the majority of her spirit has been eroded by that point and there's no way she could come back), but it wouldn't be the same relationship. He still loves her, I have no doubt of that, but he's not in love with her anymore. That's the whole point of his character arc. It's only way he can be free, and he deserves it.

🤍 · Which character is not as morally bad as everyone else seems to think?

Genesis. Genesis Genesis Genesis. I'm not gonna wax on too much here because I already have a fucking manifesto so I won't go into too much here, but Genesis is only the antagonist of CC because Zack is with Shinra, he's not the looming, manipulative liar that people portray him as in the slightest. He doesn't actually lie, like, at all. That's the problem. He is so brutally honest it ruins his relationships with literally everyone he's ever loved, because he can't fathom someone not wanting to know the truth. That's not a moral failing, that's a misunderstanding of emotional processing—because he's autistic as hell and nobody ever wants to talk about it.

He's described by Gackt himself as being "a sweetheart," the way he dresses indicates that he's used to fighting in very close-quarters while everyone else aims to keep as much distance as possible, he constantly puts himself down while elevating his loved ones, and he's not the one responsible for the accident that ruined everything.

And yet. Somehow. Bad guy forever. Okay.

🖤 · Which character is not as morally good as everyone else seems to think?

Angeal. I have a tag for this. 'Nough said.

💖 · What is your biggest unpopular opinion about the series?

The "official timeline" provided by the multiple contradictory Ultimanias is wrong. This is proven by the actual source material, but god forbid you try to make people do basic fucking math.

Oh also Rebirth's ending was phenomenal and I'm sorry that it didn't go how people wanted it to go, but it's still exactly what it should have been for this point in the story. Sorry.

💔 · If you had to remove one major character from the series, who would you choose?

This is...difficult. Almost all the major characters in the series are integral to the story in some capacity, so removing any of them would make it something else altogether. Yuffie could be removed from the OG without affecting the plot, but she couldn't be scrapped from later titles, so that's out. The main party member I'd be most personally invested in removing would be C!d because his backstory is very triggering to me as a survivor of domestic abuse, but that would break the story. I dunno how to answer this one—just because the character isn't integral in every title or I don't like them doesn't mean they should be removed. The series I love wouldn't be the same without them. I think they can all stay.

💕 · What is an unpopular ship that you like?

I am a load-bearing pylon in the Tseeve tag, which I think is a travesty, but folks wanna pair Tseng with his shitty boss instead so it is what it is.

[cyren-myadd]

Which Ships do you like about Avatar 2?

I am very neutral about ships tbh. I just kind of like all of them, but I don't have any that I really really hate or really really love (except for the pedophilic ones cause yikes!). I don't think I could muster up a strong opinion about ships if you put a gun to my head lol

I enjoy the canon ships of course, like JakeXNeytiri and Lo'akXTsireya, but I can also appreciate people playing around and exploring noncanon ships.

Like NeteyamXAonung is a popular noncanon ship, and while I don't really get where it came from, I can imagine they'd have an interesting dynamic with them starting out as rivals but then gradually developing a mutual respect for each other and realizing they have things in common as the eldest sons of their clans' olo'ektans.

NormXTsutey is another one I've seen that I think is fun just because of the opposites attract trope.

I also see the appeal of SpiderXKiri even though I'm personally hoping their relationship will stay platonic/sibling-like.

Polyamorous ships are also really fun, like JakeXNeytiriXTsu'tey, cause then you don't have to pick just two characters from a love triangle, you can have all three! I've seen some really cute fanart of Jake, Neytiri, and Tsu'tey starting a family together.

Bitter exes QuaritchXJake is probably the funniest interpretation of any Avatar ship, cause the way Quaritch lets Jake live in his head rent free 24/7 is pretty gay lmao. Plus they lowkey share custody of a kid together. "Neytiri, I'm sorry, but you're gonna have to kill my crazy evil ex if you want to marry me." "Ma Jake, I have to kill your WHAT?"

Honestly, I can appreciate any ship, whether it be canon, non-canon, or crackship. Imo, people get wayyy too upset about shipping sometimes. Unless it's pedophilic, who gives a shit if somebody wants to draw two characters kissing even if they would never kiss in canon, ya know?

[arnoldpalmerisgay]

My thoughts on Chaggie/ Charlie x Vaggie

Before we begin, no this isn't a "I hate chaggie post" and no I will not be hating on those who ship it either. Rather this is just my thoughts on chaggie at the moment.

So, I'm just gonna say it, Chaggie is my OTP. Not because it is perfection, but because it's in my opinion one of the most interesting relationship canon/noncanon, I love both the characters in the relationship, and any moment of intimacy (not just kisses and such but any intimacy that reads as romantic) is cute. And with that I want to talk about the relationship so far.

Now I've been seeing people say their relationship is toxic or unhealthy, and to that I say...that's a bit strong. Let me explain. So because hazbin is kinda speedrunning it's plot (which I understand bc limitations on episodes and seasons green lit) we don't get to deeply know all the characters and specifics on why they make certain choices and how they ended up the way they did so we have to rely on the broad and limited information provided in each episode.

Based on the 6 episodes released, we can tell Charlie is very optimistic, to a fault at times, passionate, a go getter with some direction, very empathetic, ablivious at times, and ultimanty wants to be a leader but lacks the confidence and authority (despite begin a princess bc we love the royal that doesn't know how to rule troupe, genuinely) to be one.

Vaggie on the other hand, is like Charlie, very kind, but isn't as willing to put faith in a person till they've proven they deserve it, protective, loyal, good intended, not very trusting, lacks confidence, and dependent on Charlie.

Now when you put these two together, while the two do help eachother supplement what the other lacks, whether through reassurance, doing what the other can't or doesn't want to do, or giving the other what they need at the moment, even if that isn't them, it's clear who relies more on the other. After it's revealed how Vaggie and Charlie met, it really reframes Vaggie's character. No longer is she just a slightly insecure girlfriend who just wants to make sure her partner is happy and is being supportive and good enough to her, she's now a character who has bad identity issues. I mean can you blame her?! Her whole life disappeared in an instance and started all over when Charlie found her. I imagine they haven't really been apart since then except for a couple hours maybe, but never for days or longer. And being with someone for so long especially in an unfamiliar place, of course you become attached to them. Add Charlie basically saving Vaggie's life, there's an imbalance there. A feeling of indebtedness even if Charlie never said Vaggie owed her bc wow that would be way out of character.

Now as I mentioned before, Charlie is a bit ablivious to certain things, she's especially ablivious to how vaggie feels and what she's going through. Now that's not entirely her fault, she didn't know Vaggie was an angel and that Vaggie may feel indebted to her for saving her life, but also it's clear Charlie doesn't understand social cues and again, because of her trust in Vaggie, she'd assume Vaggie would tell her anything that was wrong or bothering her since the contrary just isn't something established in there relationship. And if Vaggie didn't want to talk about something she'd say it, not lie. Like in all honesty I think Charlie won't be upset by Vaggie being an angel, but rather hiding it. Now it may sound like alot to ask of Vaggie, but again, Charlie is under the impression that Vaggie would be explicit about what to talk and not talk about. Also Charlie may be hurt because she may feel like Vaggie doesn't trust her enough or think she wouldn't accept her. So I get both sides.

So to me there relationship feels like any relationship, complicated. The relationship Itself isn't unhealthy, but some of the actions of the two involved aren't healthy or the best. Don't think I forgot about Charlie being pushy at times, I understand why she does it, but combine it with her abliviousness it's not so great. I definitely think Charlie and Vaggie can bounce back and maybe the two can have a moment together that helps the two be better together and separate. Which brings me to another thing I'd like to talk about.

My hope for Chaggie in the future is this. In the next episode, the two give eachother space, and they hangout with people in the hotel. I like the idea of Vaggie, Husk, and or Angel hanging out. Charlie and Lucifer or Charlie, Sir Pentious, Husk, or Angel spending time with her. Then half way or 3 quarters through the episode Vaggie and Charlie have a moment together after talking and hangingout with the others, talk about it/maybe apologize, make up, and have there first kiss in the show (other gestures like their foreheads touching or noses touching or a combination of gestures work as well). Then of course setting up for the 8th episode.

Another thought I had, is also the two trying to act as if nothing happened, they continue with there plans with the hotel, then when everyone notices the obvious tension, while they want to prepare for the extermination, they also want to figureout/help Vaggie and Charlie get through what ever happened. Then I imagine they either try doing the exercises and such Charlie plans but secretly use it as a way to help Charlie and Vaggie, in the end Vaggie or Charlie blow up. Shit goes down and then they make up. Or it's still not working so they try getting the two away from eachother by saying they need help with stuff, talking to them, then the two make up. Or one last one I swear, Vaggie or Charlie say to take a break from this. Everyone does, Charlie and Vaggie talk or argue. Walk different ways, Vaggie stays at the hotel and Charlie leaves the hotel. After the two end up figuring shit out, I like to think Charlie got into some shit, Vaggie saves her, they talk as they deal with the trouble Charlie's in, make up, and have an intimate moment.

Now the last thing I wat to say is kinda related but not, so if you came just for Chaggie you can leave. Anyways, with the current state of chaggie (especially with the lack of typical romantic intimacy) I noticed people shipping Charlie x Emily. And while yes I see it, personally I don't ship it just because they've only met in episode 6, they're too similar, and in my opinion, I like them as friends. With that being said, I do like them together so long as Charlie is still with Vaggie. Like I just love Charlie and Vaggie together so much, I don't want them to split. So either I'd have them as a throuple, or Charlie is dating them both but Emily and Vaggie are just friends. Either one is a pretty interesting shipping dynamic and great for fanfiction. Also just to clarify, I'm not hating on Emily x Charlie, it's just not one I'm strong about. So if you like it, more power to you. And you know what, I'll probably still look at content of it anyways cause even if it isn't my fav it's still cute.

Uh anyways, I hope you enjoyed my word vomit and thoughts? Idk how to end this...uh goodbye!

[harpoonsnotspoons]

Hey, sorry if this is a weird ask to send (I genuinely don't know most social cues and you're free to delete this anon if it weirds you out!!!) but I'm an introject who's been working through some unpacking lately and a lot of your DirkHal art has helped me with that.

It makes me feel... I don't know, affirmed? Comfortable? Idk how to describe it. It feels nice seeing other introjects create self-indulgent art that may or may not involve the source being involved and still making that art regardless and being fine depicting that art as themselves specifically and how they appear within their innerworlds, especially with ship art. It feels nice seeing singlets do it too but there's something that feels a lot more comforting when other systems do it. I don't follow you (yet, although honestly we probably should) but I thought it'd be nice to... I dunno, send something positive to an artist I like.

Thanks for making cool ass art. Signed, a noncanon Strider introject.

This is so nice to hear what the hell. Not weird at all I promise. When I first split and started drawing shit for this blog it was never really the intention to keep drawing myself, it was mostly because we didn't really have a concrete Hal design, just me and what I look like, but then at some point it actually got more uncomfortable to think about drawing any other variation. That's me, and I'm happy drawing myself and it makes me feel good. And I'm glad it can help you feel good too

Self indulgent art is always the best kind and I encourage people to go out and make whatever the hell they want because it makes them happy

Thanks for the nice ask :]

[coolfire333]

The reason is probably some combination of misogyny and disgust at polyamory but I really don't understand why people who are mad at a canon m/f ship "getting in the way" of a noncanon m/m pairing don't just ship the guy with his canon female love interest as well as the noncanon male love interest.

Like the lady could be like"here's my boyfriend and my boyfriend's boyfriend who is a super cool guy". Or ship all three (or more) characters with each other if you think that'd work!

But seriously like he has two hands like it's literally so so so sexist to get stuck into that "The Woman Gets In The Way" mindset and there's a solution where your noncanon m/m pairing still works while also respecting the canon m/f pairing...it's called Shipping Them All Together and I promise you will relax significantly if you do so.

Like idk any reason is technically a good reason to not vibe with a canon ship no matter the gender of the characters involved but I swear 99% of the time people are like "hmmm I don't like (canon m/f ship) I prefer (noncanon m/m ship)" it's just redirected misogyny.

I mean I don't like certain canon m/f ships either but this is like the fifteenth time you've (general "you", not vagueposting because thank goodness nobody on my dash does this) brought up that your noncanon m/m ship is "so much better" because the guy somehow doesn't "deserve" to be with that woman so unless you start naming m/f or f/f ships you do like, canon or not, I can only suspect you dislike women and polyamory and are probably really really weird and possessive about m/m ships to boot.

[real-fire-emblem-takes]

Throughout my time in fandom I’ve seen a lot of people misuse the idea of something being “canon” as a weapon to harass other people who like different things, usually characters or ships, and/or interpret them differently.

Ignoring the fact that a lot of us have issues with conflating our own headcanons or common fanon with what is actually shown in the text, myself not withstanding (I am certainly not immune to this), which can create further division when arguing about canon, at the end of the day we all love the same series, and constantly watching people argue is really tiring.

Takes are empty and I want to see some positivity while I’m recovering from some medical stuff, sometimes “canon” is wrong and we need to fix it, so respond to this with your favorite noncanon ships!

I’ll start by offering up Petrine x Almedha, which while not canonically implausible, does have basically no actual backing in the source material, as well as Petrine x Titania, which would require a lot of rewrites to work (I know from experience) but I still really love them together and think they were meant for each other.

Please excuse any typos and me rambling on, its been a long day, and also please don't miss the point about this being a positivity post and argue abt ships in the comments, that’s not the point of this.

.

[utilitycaster]

In the course of a couple of conversations I think I have hit on some of the fandom weirdness this campaign, and it's notable because I realized it when it was my answer to both a question about why the fandom response to "Party of NPCs" was pretty negative at the time but I don't think it would be now; and someone pointing out to me how there was a sudden massive spike of enthusiasm for Ashton and Fearne as a ship without a particularly large corresponding boost in any sort of fan works.

I suspect that many of the people who came to C3 as their first CR campaign came through the avenue of shipping; either because Shadowgast and Beauyasha both broke containment to some extent; because of TLOVM (which as a scripted TV show where they know the relationships and how they shake out, there can be foreshadowing), or because of the influxes of people shipping Imogen and Laudna circa May and September 2022. This is in contrast to Campaigns 1 and 2, where a lot of the fanbase came via D&D fandom, fantasy fandom, voice acting fandom, and more general word of mouth. This time, people showed up to ship; of that segment of the fandom, shipping is a major if not the primary way in which they interact with fiction.

Here's the truth: this is a terrible campaign for shipping, and indeed, one of the worst shows for shipping I've seen in a while. This, to be clear, is not a critique of quality. It's merely an observation that this is a terrible campaign for shipping specifically, but a great one for many of the myriad other reasons why one might watch long-form actual play. It's plot-heavy, with a pretty intricate network of laid groundwork over eight years of storytelling, two past campaigns, and two miniseries finally paying off. It's been heavy on showing the unexplored corners of the world in Marquet, rural Issylra and the Shattered Teeth. It's taken risks with the typical D&D campaign structure and with party composition and splits, to varying degrees of success. It's allowed a revisiting of beloved NPCs and locations from the past. It's the lore campaign! It's extremely not the shipping campaign.

I think most people have picked up on that by now, even if it's only subconsciously, and so those who watch with the express intent of shipping, are grasping at the most tenuous of straws because that's pretty much what they have. Two canon ships and one noncanon but hinted-towards ship are with guest characters who are not present and so are necessarily very quiet. Chetney and Fearne is a lot of fun but it does not fit the usual shipping-above-all preferences of monogamous love to marriage/partnership to babies, plus Chetney is weird and old. (This has always been an issue with this mentality, incidentally; for all I think the popularity of Shadowgast is why some of these people are here, the fact of the matter is that many of the people who like Shadowgast like a completely foreign to canon concept operating under that name that erases the frequent long-distant nature and the almost certain lack of children and the deliberate choice to end the relationship amicably due to different needs.) However you may feel about Imogen and Laudna it is incontrovertible that there's been little to no movement in what is now a calendar quarter. And so: two people doing something that is not explicitly romantic while two other characters say "emperor and empress" is a paltry, miniscule - and I hate to use the word but no other will do - crumb; but it is a crumb to a starving populace.

In case my feelings aren't abundantly clear...I say let them eat cake. I enjoy ships and shipping! I enjoy seeing characters recognize themselves through the other and develop over time as they fall in love with another character; I enjoy seeing a deep romance unfold slowly so that I can savor it. But this campaign just doesn't really have that, and that's never been the most significant reason I watch, let alone the main one. I'd rather have no romantic relationships in a work than rushed ones that strain credibility or lack chemistry, and those who do want romance can either find other shows, or focus on transformative work. For those who came to Campaign 3 on the basis of rumors of the great romances in Campaigns 1 or 2, those are still there for you! And while I think we're too far in for a campaign-length romance, there are plenty of ways for the existing ships to become something more interesting. But I think this explains a lot of the weirder patterns in the fandom conversation as of late.

[ourflagmeansgayrights]

ok so i was actually kinda surprised to find that looking at the ao3 stats and adjusting for how long ofmd’s existed (a year and a half) vs how long the stucky fandom’s been around (coming up on a decade), not only is gentlebeard on par with stucky but it actually beats stucky for amount of fics written. but i’m making a prediction now just based on how i’ve observed fandoms to work: i do think the gentlebeard popularity will peter out faster than stucky did

i’m not saying bc i think gentlebeard is worse or the ofmd fandom is weak or anything, i’m saying this bc in fandom it seems like the white masc queerbait ships* have like, an absurd amount of longevity that goes way beyond the general fandom surrounding whatever media said white masc queerbait ship hails from. im thinking abt the protagonist/rival ship from the TERF wizard series that nobody decent talks about in public anymore. before we all cut jkr out of our lives, people were still churning out fics abt the main character and that racist blond kid pretty regularly. and another example, we have those scientists from pacific rim that are more popular than any of the main characters from that movie. it’s been years and the newt/hermann fandom is still going strong.

and i say “newt/hermann fandom” intentionally, bc that’s the thing that i think actually gives these ships their longevity: when there are fans who are primarily invested in a piece of media because of a noncanonical masc4masc queerbait ship, they’re not really fans of the media itself. i mean, some of them might be, but if they are then that’s in addition to being fans of this alternate queer interpretation of the media in question. they’re a fan of the fandom mass hallucination that the fans collectively and collaboratively invented of a romantic/sexual/homoerotic relationship between two guys who on-screen might hug like once or twice (or sometimes even never)

and i’m pretty sure the reason this sort of fandom phenomenon tends to have so much longevity is bc the fans have already created this whole extensive romantic storyline using what is often some pretty minimal canonical material to work with. so when the movie franchise or the tv show ends and the shippers no longer have any new canonical material to work with, they can keep going for years because really, they were already making shit up from the start.

so compared to that, gentlebeard is way different bc everything the fans might have invented on our own the show pretty much already did for us, and anything the show didn’t do yet is probably coming for us this season (or in s3, fingers crossed). i’ve mentioned before how a lot of fanfiction seems to fall on a spectrum between “fix” and “expand,” and by the end of ofmd i doubt there’s gonna be a whole lot that gentlebeard fans feel like they need to “fix.” versus stucky, where there’s so much that needs to be fixed that you might as well just throw the whole canon out.

i don't really mean any of this as a criticism or an attack on fans of queerbait ships like this, im just pointing out fandom trends that i've noticed. i myself have been deeply invested in stucky, newmann, and the gay wizard boys at different points in my life. like there is something very fun abt putting on slash goggles and making queer content out of nothing. personally though, now that we're in an age where we're getting canon queer content, im not so engaged in a lot of the ships i used to care so much about, but i don't think it's inherently wrong** for people to still enjoy some classic fandom queerbait ships. it's just a very different thing from enjoying canonical queer ships like gentlebeard

*im using “queerbait ships” loosely to include popular gay ships in media that was never in a million years going to make these characters gay.

**a clarifying point: i don't think it's inherently wrong, however there are a lot of problematic elements to this kind of fandom activity, namely the way a lot of these queerbait ships will dominate a fandom while other characters who are important in canon get completely sidelined (and yes, the sidelined characters are often women/poc). also, less importantly, when people's primary media consumption revolves around strip mining canon for shipping content, this absolutely destroys their media literacy and critical thinking. again, im not saying this to attack ppl who engage in fandom primarily through fic/art of noncanonical gay ships, i myself have done the same thing. but i think ppl who do should also make a conscious effort to also engage with fan content that centers women/poc, or at the very least need to be aware of the issues around this kind of fandom activity.

[abyssalzones]

Trying not to be such a miserable hater and keep things in perspective here but yeah the charity stream did piss me off somewhat. Imagine how annoying they're gonna be about it now 😔

tbh they were already pretty annoying. I don't see it getting worse aside from maybe playground schoolchildren logic of "well alex drew MY ship (for thousands of dollars in charity donations) so THERE you CAN'T call it Problematic now" or something. remember back in the 2017(citation needed on the year idr) charity streams when someone who was almost certainly a weird shipper donated to have him draw bipper. it's for money. like it's still really annoying but I doubt alex cares for it as a "ship". or maybe he does and I don't know anything anymore in which case we should all stop analyzing themes and giving a shit about how stories are told and take up daydrinking. end of the line here is that I still don't really care because I know what the story I read meant to me and anything that exists outside it is in a realm of noncanon "playing with toys", and maybe that sounds like hashtag cope but I think that's a pretty reasonable assertation to make.

[deepdeanvsweston]

oh thanks for answering my George/Hazel ask (and wow those are great)! if you’re still answering for the mmu ask game, what would ur answers be for 17 and/or 18? also, for 30, there was a post about the dss ending, is there anything in particular you don’t like about it?

That's perfectly alright! I had so much fun answering idk if you could tell I'm really into the ship /j

I am ALWAYS answering the MMU ask game!

17. Least favourite canon ship (including past ones)

Hmmm I did have to think for this one! There's nothing I particularly hate with every fibre of my being sort of thing, but I'm saying Daisy x Amina. She was in 2 books max, and I felt I didn't really get to know her very well and also that the fandom was forced to make things up about her as opposed to simply doing it for fun. Additionally, it felt to me that Daisy was written as needing to have a girlfriend by the end of the series to consolidate her being a lesbian, which I also didn't like. In essence, their relationship moved too fast for me.

However, I can very well see the potential and think if Amina had been introduced earlier and they'd been academic rivals to lovers (NOT enemies to lovers mind you I despise that trope) I could well get on board with it.

18. Least favourite noncanon ship

Again, I don't hold particularly strong negative feelings for ships I don't like, apparently just really strong positive feelings for the ones I do! But if I had to pick one, probably Kitty/Beanie. I just find them as a ship a bit boring, though if someone were to write a passionate post being like "HERES WHY THEY WOULD WORK!!!" I might be swayed.

30. Free space!!! Ask anything MMU related :)

And in anon's case they've asked why I don't like the ending of DSS.

Do not get me started I dislike it so much and it makes me slightly uncomfortable??? Listen,,, I LOVE MMU I think everyone who sees my blog can tell this however this grates on me deeply. I HATE HATE HATE how all 4 of the main detectives were paired up at the end. There was no need for it and it felt forced, especially Lavinia (comphet queen in my, and trust me when I say this, professional opinion) and George. Hazel and Alex I can cope with fine. It had been building up and hinted at and so makes logical sense (I don't like the way it was done though as I think what Hazel needed then was not a bf but just friends there to support her). Daisy and Amina felt rushed too, like they had 2 books in which even their interactions were brief. Really felt like it was pushing the fact that Daisy had to have a gf to be verified as a lesbian, as explained above. George imo was soooo ooc to be like "rip Daisy, soz Hazel, but uhhh. Yeah. I wanna wife one of your dormmates up" especially as he usually seems so in tune with what's going on around him, as seen notably in DITS:

"It's not difficult to work out!" George protested, shrugging his shoulders. "Bridget looks rushed. I can smell beef tea boiling. Hazel looks tired, she doesn't have her handkerchief in her pocket and Daisy isn't here. Daisy can't be dead, otherwise Hazel would be crying with her handker chief in her hand. But, if Daisy were simply ill, it would explain the beef tea and Bridget and Hazel would have sat up worrying about Daisy all night, and given Daisy her handkerchief when hers were all used up. See? Elementary."

I suppose it could be blamed on grief but idk.

It also grates on me because of the kind of message it's sending, especially as the book series target demographic is 9-12??? Like 'oh no the book series is ending! All the 15/16 year old teenagers have to be paired up because they can't have satisfying endings otherwise!!!' but also I'm arospec so that is going to give me a biased view, but still.

[paragonrobits]

i also think a lot of particularly loud people in the AtLA fandom who really dislike Aang and are increasingly going out of their way to make him and other Air Nomads look bad or implying that they were becoming colonizers and imperialists, and also have a record of constantly trying to depict the Fire Nation in the best possible light, are unknowingly telling on themselves by assuming that the series depicting the Fire Nation in a poor light (as being, well, imperialist genocidal conquerers, in ways indicating that these were part of general attitudes culminating in the Hundred Year War) is commentary on a particular noncanon ship.

This indicates that regardless of what they might say, it does mean that they conflate the Fire Nation with this ship in particular, as they outright saying that an attack on the Fire Nation (which is by default an antagonistic state that has lost its way, become consumed by hatred, feelings of imperialism, and lost touch with its own spiritual ways) is an attack on their fanon ship.

Its hard to assume anything else whenever the Fire Nation is shown in the poor light that it logically must have been, for its people to be so okay with taking part in genocides and regarding the rest of the world as unenlightened barbarians that needed to be conquered for their own good. Those attitudes don't come out of nowhere. Empires in general have feelings of exceptionalism or being better than everyone else, so the Fire Nation being like that is consistent with what they later wound up doing.

This fanon ship is not being referenced or brought up, as the Roku novel is written over a hundred years before those characters are born. Nonetheless you see people saying that they're being written like this solely to demonize their fanon ship, which is all but outright saying that they are conflating the Fire Nation, with all its cruelty, as synonymous with their ship.

This shouldn't be surprising; for a long time a lot of the attitude around this ship has focused on its power, on the luxury of its ruling class, on achievements in politics someone marrying into the royal family could be. And so a lot of the statements about the Fire Nation's practices DO seem like a reaction to fandom opinions about this sort of thing. Not necessary in a critical way (though that could be seen as involved, as a lot of the attitudes expressed by that part of fandom are directly contrary to the tone of the series and the spirituality and aversion to ruthlessness it advocates), but feeling more like clarifying things, such as how the Fire Lady has no political power at all, and is solely expected to produce children, and apart from that is a complete political nonentity.

I've seen glimpses for a while of that part of fandom becoming increasingly more pro-empire; denying that the Fire Nation has decimated the Water Tribes, increasingly demonizing the Air Nomads, going out of their way to constantly insist the title character is the worst person in the world... at this point, them outright saying that the Air Nomad genocide was justified and that the Fire Nation SHOULD take over the world is them just being honest about it.

and once again i find myself asking: if you hate the actual story this much, if you're so fixated on your fanon ship that was never going to happen or overwriting those characters with your self insert OCs, why do you still care about it? You're so distanced from the actual show that I honestly can't see why you care about this setting at all outside of complaining whenever the Fire Nation is shown to be, in fact, a conquering nation with racist and classist attitudes.

At this point I expect the next thing from them to say is 'Ozai was actually a hero, did nothing wrong, his duel with Zuko was just tough love, and Iroh was a traitor for abandoning the siege when he could have brought the Earth Kingdom into glory'. At this point you're 40k Imperium stans without the irony.

[gaykarstaagforever]

Star Trek: New Voyages (previously Phase II) is now as much a nostalgic relic of the early 2000s as it ever was a nostalgic tribute to TOS. I've liked all of the ones I've seen, and I always respected the dedication these guys had to the "feel" of TOS, which they always nail, despite their obvious limitations. This project has always also benefited from being high-profile enough to attract actual Trek alums, and Hollywood industry talent that loved Trek enough to contribute.

I guess it's officially over now? Paramount turned a blind eye for years, but apparently put a stop to it around the time they decided to go all-in with New Trek. Yeah, because this noncanon largely-amateur web series was stealing viewers from Discovery.

...Though given how some old fans are, maybe it was?

Either way, they didn't bury the show. It's still all free on YouTube. There just aren't going to be any new ones. But they had from like 2004 to 2016 to produce these, and very much made good use of the time, ending up with ten episodes at a level of quality that was totally unmatched in a pre-YouTube, pre-monetization world, and is still remarkable for non-corporate fan content.

It's really hard to even review any of these, because what standard do you judge it by? Obviously it's inferior in production quality to the "real" shows, but it also puts something like the Channel Awesome movies to shame. Maybe it's like a more serious sibling to something like RLM's Space Cop? But New Voyages predates that by so much that the prosumer tech used to make it back then only makes it more impressive for that. Yet it also had scripts by DC Fontana and other professional TV writers, giving it a clear unfair advantage in that regard. It's really apples to oranges.

Suffice it to say, in 2025, New Voyages feels like a collection of really long cutscenes from a TOS FMV game made in the early 2000s, that couldn't get rights to license the actors' likenesses. Acting ability / impersonations of TOS actors range from good to good enough, sets are good but always feel as limited and confined as they were, CG is of its time and was made with a modern action-oriented sensibility, so this version of the TOS crew sure do get into a lot more dramatic and thrilling space battles than the crew did in the 60s. None of that is bad, and is in fact quite endearing, even if in a bit of an ironic way - like, TOS the real show is often pretty goofy and kinda stupid. These guys are recreating it with 2000s computers and a set they built in an abandoned Dollar store (literally). It's going to end up easy to poke fun at it, if you're so inclined, especially when TOS actors show up for cameos and you think, "Man. One of these things is not like the others. And that doesn't make the others look too good."

But again. How do you make something like this, on this budget, in this way, and not have it occasionally be overly earnest and saccharine and cringey? Most attempts at TOS fan projects like this are WAY worse about all that (there are many on YouTube; strap in). This is by far the best of them, showing a lot more restraint and attention to subtle detail than anyone could've asked for. And as for the production quality itself, I'd like to see you make an episode of Star Trek for the Internet through the 2010s that doesn't end up looking like you deinterlaced it from a Command and Conquer game.

All of which brings us to this specific New Voyages episode, "World Enough and Time".

The big draw with this one is that it costars George Takei. And I mean "costars" - he's in the whole thing. Here he plays a version of Sulu that gets transported into a pocket of time where he lives 30 years in 30 seconds, and comes out of it a violent, broken man with an adult daughter, while the TOS crew he thought were dead have effectively paused in time. He doesn't know what to do with them, they don't know what to do with him, and on top of it all, the clock is, as usual, ticking down to the ship being torn apart by unstable gravity waves.

And Takei is down for it. He isn't doing a half-hearted performance for a fan film - he is 100% into this, as if it were a legit Trek movie. Comments on the video call this possibly his best performance as Sulu. I don't know if I'd go that far, because the Sulu here is basically a Mirror Universe version of that character (aside from the opening and ending scenes). But what he's doing is a very good performance of solid, complex material. He even has a knife-fighting scene. It is the most TOS-feeling part of this mostly TOS-feeling show.

The writing is very good, which makes sense, because it's by industry veterans who are, of course, TOS fans. This is the best kind of fan fiction, where all the characters act like you know they would, down to little relationships nuances. It's not parody, it's our blorbos living the lives we know they live. Even small moments with Chekov and Uhura are basically perfect, no notes.

The rest of the cast is...well, it's hard to quantify. These are young actors of varying degrees of skill, and some are going hard to mimic the TOS originals, while others seem to be happy merely standing in as vague approximations. Uneven, to say the least. But there wasn't professional casting or professional directing, here, so what do you want? They're not technically good, but they're not technically bad, they're just what they can be, as best they can. There's really no clearer way to put it. But what they DO all manage to do is get the "vibe" of these characters right. Building on top of the good script, everyone gets the beats right, even if they're out-of-tune, to mix metaphors. Even McCoy and Scotty - the two weakest performances here, sorry guys - are still THEM. And even these two actors manage to capture the ineffable essence of these characters, even if their accents are meh and their energy is a little flat. You can still squint and see the orignal TOS actors bleeding through them. That's a frankly INSANE thing to pull off, I don't know how they managed it, and it's what makes New Voyages as good as it is. These are college kids doing impersonations of 1960s TV actors for an Internet show in 2007, and even if they're never great at it, they're still good at it.

Including the guy playing Kirk, who is Shatnering it up a bit too much. There are still many moments when he goddamn feels like Jim Goddamn Kirk - probably because Shatner himself Shatnered it up a bit too much.

My complaints about this episode, and there are several, are, again, in context of what this is and how it was made. I don't intend to go hard on people who really went above and beyond to copy a TV show - with no expertise and no money - and still kinda pulled it off? So keep that in mind, as you read this and if you watch it. They fuck up a little, but only a little.

Production-wise, I don't know what the hell the score is up to. Oh man. It never backs off for a moment. Just spreading it on as thick as possible, every moment of the show. It's a good score, but is about 10 lbs of score jammed into a 5 lbs music...bag. Whatever. You get the point. They should have toned it down and let some of these moments stand on their own. That's what the original show did, even in the Swingin' Sixties. That was still way more subtle than this.

Things in general here are a bit too gung-ho. The sound effects are mixed too loud and they probably use them too much. They're accurate, but reach a point where the entire ship is constantly buzzing and humming and clicking all the time. It's distracting. As are all the loving shots of people pressing buttons and turning dials on the (very good) sets. Yeah, you want to show it off. I get it. But again, a little of this goes a long way. We don't need to watch every member of the cast push that intercom button at some point. We get it. It looks good. Relax.

The script is also, good as it is, very much a filmed spec script. If you don't know, the first draft of a script someone writes for a show is usually written like a novella, prioritizing the story beats and character interactions, and less interested in run-time or pacing or the practicality of actually filming it. The screenplay version comes next, where the first version is shoehorned into all those shapes, while hopefully retaining most of the good, quieter stuff. This episode isn't worried about only being 45 minutes long, or how it's going to show people walking on an exploded spacehip in 1967. So everything is packed into this. Which is good, but also means it feels too long and too wordy and too reliant on crazy special effects sequences to be a "real" TOS episode. ...Which it isn't. And that's okay. But I still felt it, and you will too, and it's disorienting. Especially by the end where we've had about 4 too many melodramatic emotional scenes, and it starts bordering on parody. Spock is way too verbose and emotionally honest, here, and for no good reason. This is a Sulu story. Keep the focus on him and his daughter.

Ah, yes. Sulu's daughter. She's...a lot. Like the score. On all the time. Never, ever stops. She's joyful and gracious and happy and gleeful and curious and shines like the rays of the Sun, and not only because she's trapped in a sparkly Science Field the whole episode. She's unbearable, frankly. I get that she's the apple of Sulu's eye, and the story wants us to really feel awful when he's put in a position where he may have to sacrifice his angel to save the Enterprise. But she's not a person in this story, she's just a sentient anime puppy-kitten hybrid who literally dances in the corridor like no one is watching (except Kirk, because of course he is, and yes, he's a total dog about it). She supposedly grew up completely isolated with Sulu on the weird time planet, and he must have been the best father ever, because while he is traumatized and a little deranged, she never stops smiling until right at the end. When she's on fire. And I was very much done with her obnoxious, sickeningly-sweet ass well before that point.

It's partly the performance, but I'm sure she was written this way, so what could anyone do? As Homer Simpson found out, you can't make Poochie work, no matter how hard you try. And any time this lady isn't on screen, the other characters are asking, "Where's Alana?"

It ruined the emotional payoff for me. Even while her tearful scenes with Sulu were well-acted, I didn't care. Because this wasn't a "real" person having feelings, it was a hack trope demanding I react appropriately. Just too much. If it had all been dialed back from 11 to like 7, as it would have been in in an actual episode, it would have been really good. But here we are.

Your milage may vary. People really seem to have connected with this, and it was nominated for a Hugo or something for this. I understand why. But I was laughing at a point where I should have been crying, and that's not good.

Also the final resolution of all this, as Sulu is captain of the Excelsior in his Maroon Monster years later, is also very lame. As soon as I knew what they were planning, I told them not to do it, but as I was watching the finished episode when this happened, it happened anyway. Come on, guys. Once again, too much.

Just like the references to Shakespeare's The Tempest they almost desperately force into this. They REALLY want you to appreciate them doing that, pausing to explain it and quote lines from it and then explain it again. I got it. You're very smart. Now shut up.

Also don't do Tempest references in your scifi anymore. You're not allowed. The 60s did that because it was a new cool idea back then, but one that wasn't terribly brilliant EVEN then. Pretend you read another play. I'll still pretend that makes you look smart. We'll work it out.

Oh, and here is a pedantic technical complaint I am me so I have to point out. While the original Enterprise was voiced by Majel Barrett, as was the later Enterprise-D (and most other Starfleet ships up til recently), the Enterprise computer did not sound like the later ones. It was a 60s version of an advanced computer, so she did a corny loud robot voice and prefaced every request by saying "WORKING!", and then there were Space spinning tape deck noises. And also, it really didn't talk to the crew too much outside of people doing research at terminals, where they asked it specific questions and it would answer, like being at the terminal was what was making that work. In this episode, they actually got Majel Barrett to record new lines for it. Great. But she's doing Enterprise-D-era ship voice. And it's just randomly over a ship-wide PA. That's not right.

Yeah. I know. Into the locker. My glasses!

But hey. Besides all this, still, very good episode of a very good show. New Voyages is ALMOST good enough to be put into rotation with official Trek. Almost. If you squint. And I certainly like it more than a few actual series this franchise has shown up with at my door, sopping wet, at 3 am on a Sunday.

And that's exactly why Paramount told them to stop this now okay guys, and pays them to rent their stunning Enterprise bridge set for fan experiences. And there's world enough for that, and time.

...Did I do that right? With The Tempest? Is that how you do that? Do I look smart?

Oh! And I forgot to mention, Grace Lee Whitney has a brief cameo in this as Second Officer of the Excelsior. It's always good to see Rand as a fleet officer and not fetching gropey men coffee.

...Even if they did her dirty with this hair and make-up. Yikes.

But if the green screen is gonna look like this, we accept certain small limitations from the fan show from 2007.