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silverwhittlingknife · 4 months

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hi Silver! o/ because that fanart made me wonder - would you happen to know when/where Dick's stuffed elephant plush Zitka turns up in the comics?

GREETINGS CAM <3333 THAT ART WAS SO CUTE

Yeah, I think your instincts are right - it's a truly adorable bit of transformative fandom, but I'm 95% percent sure it's not comics canon. Barbara has canon plushies, but I don't think anyone else does.

I got kinda invested in the investigation (it's hard to prove a negative!) and I ended up typing out an entire History of Elinore/Zitka, so, uh, if you're curious, meet me below the cut for:

Where does Elinore / Zitka - the animal - appear in comics?

Did Dick ever have a stuffed elephant toy in comics?

Where does Elinore / Zitka appear in comics?

We're gonna go in chronological order!

Dick's circus elephant friend was first created for practical reasons: in Batman 436, Marv Wolfman does a big expanded flashback to Dick's circus backstory as a way to subtly show us Tim before officially introducing him (so that we can have a technically-solvable mystery-of-Tim's-identity in LPoD). In this comic, there's an elephant named Elinore who loves Dick:

Aww. Such a cute elephant!

Batman 436 comes out in August 1989. New Titans 60 comes out a few months later, in November, and guess what? When Dick visits the circus, he is suddenly surprised by an unexpected blast from the past! It turns out that even though it's been years, Elinore still remembers him!

Here's the part where Elinore remembers Dick:

SUCH a cute elephant. I love her.

(Guess who else still remembers Dick even though it was so long ago. Guess which other character is about to be an unexpected blast from the past. Guess which character Elinore is directly paralleling guess guess guess sorry everything is about Dick and Tim in my mind but I can focus I swear)

Four years later, in 1993, Batman: The Animated Series retells Dick's origin story. They like and keep Wolfman's elephant, but they change her name to Zitka:

Wolfman doesn't return to the elephant beyond those two appearances, and a few years down the line, New Titans gets cancelled and Wolfman's not writing Dick anymore anyway. So the animal gets abandoned for a while, until Devin Grayson, a fan of both Wolfman and B:tAS, revives the Wolfman-era Titans team in JLA/Titans and then the ongoing series Titans 1999.

Grayson then brings back the elephant in a flashback to Dick's past in Titans 16 (Jun 2000), where she imports the B:tAS name. Sometimes I'm skeptical of TV-to-comics imports, but honestly, I endorse this one. You lose the alliteration, which is a shame, but IMO Zitka is a better elephant name than Elinore.

Here's Dick with the newly-christened Zitka in Titans 16:

Grayson also briefly references the elephant in Gotham Knights 20 and - in a final angsty callback - in Nightwing 88 (Feb 2004), where Zitka tries futilely to comfort Dick in the midst of his trauma conga line:

... And... honestly, I think that's it for comic appearances? The two Wolfman comics plus the three Grayson comics.

Both Wolfman and Grayson are writing multiple titles - Batman, New Titans, Titans, Gotham Knights, and Nightwing between the two of them, spanning a big chunk of Dick's post-Crisis canon - and both writers use the elephant for heartwarming moments of nostalgia, which means if you're doing a post-Crisis readthrough for Dick, Elinore/Zitka feels memorable. But I don't think she actually shows up that much.

For post-2011, I am not as well-informed - throwing this out to the dash? anyone know? - but I feel like Zitka the heartwarming symbol of Dick's heartwarming circus past is, uh, thematically very at odds with the Court of Owls evil!circus vibes, so my instinct is that this story element was almost certainly dropped in the reboot.

Did Dick ever have a stuffed elephant toy in comics?

In WFA, yes; in main comics continuity, no. Technically, I have not read every comic ever published, so I could be wrong!! But I don't think so.

Below, find my rambling reasoning on the tonal vibes of pre-Crisis, post-Crisis, and post-2011, and why this particular story element doesn't seem right to me for the first two.

Pre-Crisis (...okay, mostly the Silver Age): stuffed animal, yes or no?

tl;dr no, requires too much background knowledge on the part of the reader, plus the elephant wasn't a thing until later

Elinore doesn't get created until post-Crisis, but also just generally, pre-Crisis callbacks are more along the lines of this reference in Batman 129 (published in 1960), where, wow, Batman and Robin are hunting jewel thieves - and it turns out Robin recognized this strongman! BUT HOW?!

The comic goes on to recap Dick's entire origin story in flashback, on the assumption that you may not know it.

(BTW, if you'd like to know more about Haly's Circus throughout the years, nightwingology has a great post here summarizing a lot of fun plotlines and characters!)

Basically: Silver Age comics are very self-consciously episodic and kid-friendly; they're not generally gonna do overly-elaborate callbacks because they don't know what comics their kid readers may have randomly picked up or remember.

By the time of post-Crisis, comic books were being written for an adult audience buying from the direct market, i.e. readers who are collecting whole runs & don't need or want Dick's origin story to be recapped to us in full every time it's referenced. That's why in post-Crisis, we get stuff like "hey, neat, this particular soda brand is getting mentioned in several different books!!" or "in order to understand this story arc, buy SIXTEEN DIFFERENT COMICS in FIVE DIFFERENT RUNS and read them ALL ACCORDING TO A NUMBERED ORDER and also you better be following the individual plotlines and recognize these five minor characters who we don't bother to introduce!! Good luck!!" But the elaborate post-Crisis plotlines - and subtler worldbuilding like a stuffed animal callback to Dick's backstory - don't make a lot of story sense UNLESS you're imagining your readers as completionist adult fans.

So IMO a stuffed animal wouldn't be a pre-Crisis thing unless it was The Episodic Story Of the Week, and I don't think a stuffed animal is action-adventure-y enough for the fast-paced storytelling of the Silver Age. (Unless it, like, came to life and tried to eat you or something.)

Post-Crisis: stuffed animals, yes or no?

tl;dr: no, Dick's a manly tough guy, he's not gonna have a stuffed animal, that'd be lame, like something Tim might do

Part of the edgy grimdark adult vibes in 80s/90s comics is that some characters who used to be kinda silly & goofy & lighthearted - like Batman and Robin - get reimagined as Serious and Angsty and Edgy in a Tough Cool Manly Brooding Way. This massively affects characterization for Bruce, Dick, and Bruce and Dick's relationship.

(I obviously love this change & love the tense Bruce-and-Dick interactions, but plenty of fans of the earlier fluffy comics really disliked the edgy retcons of Miller / Wolfman / Starlin / et al.)

The upshot is that post-Crisis is a period when you could have a recurring reference like a stuffed elephant, but you wouldn't have a stuffed elephant, not for Dick. I think a toy like that would be too cutesy / childish / effeminate to give a male character in post-Crisis, unless you were poking fun at him.

Now, you could probably let Tim have a stuffed animal, because Tim is sometimes cool but also sometimes a tryhard loser who is faking being cool and not entirely pulling it off (see e.g. the Robin comic where he practices tough-guy faces in the mirror, or the Teen Titans comic where Conner discovers his cringy Enya CD, or when he's fanboying over Connor and it's awkward, etc etc.). A stuffed animal would be deeply embarrassing, and you'd have to be careful to compensate by having Tim do something cool afterward - but Tim's character concept allows for "he's kind of a loser sometimes."

But Dick isn't!! In post-Crisis, Dick's a tough / impressive / "cool guy" character, the kind of guy anyone would want to be, even in the flashbacks where he's Robin, and even in the stories where he's more lighthearted than angsty. It'd be kinda lame for Dick to have a stuffed elephant, so he wouldn't. I feel like Dick would be more likely to poke fun at it if someone had one, like when he's making fun of Wally for liking the Hardy Boys. Dick could have a Batman action figure, at most, and if he had one he would have it ironically.

Basically: in post-Crisis, a male character hugging a stuffed elephant feels more likely to be a punchline to me, not something poignant. (Even with Tim, Tim could have an embarrassing stuffed animal, but he couldn't hug it when sad - that's too far. Maybe Booster Gold might do this. Probably he wouldn't, but spiritually, he would. Sorry Booster ilu! <3)

Instead, Dick instinctively deals with his inner turmoil like the TORTURED ACTION HERO he is: by punching things and brooding and yelling and joining the mob and sleeping on rooftops and going on obsessive secret missions and acquiring Angsty Stubble!! Just like Batman!

(Technically I don't know if Bruce ever joined the mob but you know he would.)

Anyway as you know this is my favorite continuity and I am poking fun affectionately, but uh, yeah sdfsfdsfs. No stuffed animals.

Post-2011 / Infinite Frontier / Wayne Family Adventures: stuffed animals, yes or no?

tl;dr it's in WFA! Probably not anywhere else, but it could be.

Post-2011 stuff tends to be cutesier overall, most of all in the current Infinite Frontier era. So I don't feel like this would be tonally out-of-line with IF comics. Taylor tends to go for more meme-y references rather than fanfic references, though.

So the obvious best fit is WFA, which is aiming for a rough approximation of Silver Age family-friendly vibes - wholesome, episodic plots, Teaching Good Moral Lessons For The Youth, etc. - plus lots of Easter eggs for fanfic readers and some comic references.

And look, here we are:

Aww.

Whew - that's everything I could find!

Anyway as you can probably tell, I LOVE the elephant, so this was a very entertaining rabbit hole to go down, thank you <3

#dick grayson #anyone with more info feel free to chime in & we can crowdsource <3 #i do think the toy elephant is awfully cute though <3 #total digression but i was thinking about it as i was writing:#i'm fascinated by the ways that the post-crisis batboys & their stories can intersect with 90s masculinity and all its issues with stoicism #and i'm pro-queering and gender-bending - 90s comics were a total boys' club so i think it's neat that transformative fandom isn't #but i do love 90s masculinity and All Its Issues too & one of the things i find compelling about the dick-tim-bruce trio #& especially dick's place in it - is the unspoken hierarchy whereby bruce is manlier than dick & dick is manlier than tim #and so dick's in the middle as this somewhat softer-character who aspires to be a harsher & more stoic & ultimate manly-man character #caught in the middle between robin & batman & what each role represents #and like. batman is both manhood & the only desirable thing to be AND ALSO it represents this immense narrowing of possibility #because so much of stereotypical masculinity is about reducing the range of emotions you're allowed to have or express #and dick is both incredibly conflicted about bruce AND wants to be just like him & by extension is conflicted about masculinity writ large #so a lot of dick's interactions with tim veer between trying on a frat-boy-ish 'I'm The Manly Guy' persona vs. giving up on it #or trying on imitations of Bruce's Batman persona but also trying to backtrack out of it bc he doesn't like how it feels etc etc #ANYWAY i think what i am trying to say is that if tim had a stuffed animal dick would be entertained & poke mild fun at him #and call him 'teddy' for the next hour or something while tim got increasingly defensive about how the teddy bear was steph's #and/or about how the teddy bear was OLD and tim doesn't even care about it and also WHATEVEr i'm above this #and to an uninformed observer this might look like bullying BUT ACTUALLY #this ritual would IN FACT be very reassuring to both of them + tim would feel WAY better afterward than if dick had ignored it #because by poking fun at him dick shows he still respects tim enough to tease him thus subtextually exorcising the threat of wimpiness #plus allowing tim to defend himself & demonstrate that he can take a joke so they've both reaffirmed their masculinity to each other #& they don't have to be scared of the teddy bear and all it represents anymore #however also afterward dick would have a brief nostalgic flashback to when he was a kid & had a teddy bear & feel weird about the memory #because he would be unable to articulate to himself that what he misses is a past when he allowed himself to be vulnerable #anyway this wouldn't actually happen in comics but it's what would happen in my soul. you know.#ask tag #zitka

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rillils · 9 months

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‘all my favourite ships have:’

stucky + this post

#stucky #stevebucky #i did a thing??#just to soothe myself from the holidays-induced overstimulation #i'll be so glad when it's over ahgsjkdhaskdj #meanwhile #in this limbo in between christmas and new years #please have this :3 #idk how to tag this so i can find it back sjdhskjd #uhhhhhh #mine #................now i'm second-guessing myself #has this specific thing been done before????????????????????#i don't know anymore ;___;#imma go to bed

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quirkle2 · 11 months

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ms paint with mouse time

#qkdraws #id in alt #scribbled this out in like two hours while watching johnstone repeatedly fail at nuzlockes <3 #i know it doesn't seem like a 2 hour thing but . shut up im slow #ignore the ''''''shading'''''' on the sunflower i know it's gross. ms paint was not made for beauty it was made for raw lines #twas made for the people in the wee hours of the night that have art block and decide to break it by ditching their tablet (me)#mob psycho 100 #mob psycho #mp100 #mp100 shigeo #shigeo kageyama #mp100 mob #gonna be real w u idk how to tag the noose #uhm #tw sui implied #???????????#i literally don't know please lemme know if i should add or change tags #i missed drawin with a mouse it's a nice change of pace from pencil #i do think it's Fascinating that even when using a completely different tool the art style does not change. that's so wild #makes u think (it is past 10pm i should Not be thinking at all. abt anything rly)#anyway .throws my nonsense tags into the void bye

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mrehkka · 7 months

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Any gesture that uses just the first 2 fingers is vulgar to Irkens. Zim was very confused by humans doing peace signs for photos or using finger quotes when talking

Doing this sign from the forehead means the Irken military in particular bc of the forehead symbol the elite soldiers have

Editing to add: Irkens would be APALLED to see any of these gestures used- Zim has just been on earth long enough that he doesn't care anymore lmao if he does this in other Irkens' presence they would smack his hand down so fast AND ALSO Zim isn't wearing any gloves?? This makes the gesture even worse!

Part 2

#invader zim #iz zim #Irken lore #Irken language #Irken #my art #Irkens have a thing about hands and feet being covered #feet more so than hands #zim eventually relaxes enough not to wear gloves on earth but going barefoot takes him WAY longer #also also #i give Irkens 3 fingers and a thumb #in the show while zim has 3 fingers total which is one less than humans who have 4 fingers total. So if I give dib 5 I give zim 4 #I'm a nerd #I have so many Irken cultural headcanons. gestures. words. you don't wanna get me started lol #fun fact- the reason this gesture is vulgar is bc it vaguely resembles Irken genitalia #much like how the middle finger is bad supposedly bc it represents human male genitalia #the more you know!#am I gonna get in trouble for this? do I need to tag it as something??

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cairafea · 1 year

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i think the fast travel in this game is very cool 👍

#ghost trick #ghost trick phantom detective #sissel #my art #fanart #comic #pov the ghost you just met after dying can travel through telephone lines (he is breaking privacy laws and you work in law enforcement)#look i know the phones are more like level select but they're also narratively fast travel #and i know sissel doesn't have a corporeal body but work with me here #sissel can just Say Things and the souls he talks to will just have to accept that because they're Level 1 Dead #what they don't know yet is that sissel is only Level 3 Dead with a severe No Context debuff #uh nothing i drew or said in tags should be a spoiler since it's all introduced in the prologue #knowing the ending of this game it's actually hilarious that sissel can go anywhere he wants to mess with every object in the vicinity #but only if he can reach it.#no watermark or signature do you see how low quality that sissel is #don't repost or i'll {Trick} your kneecaps next

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tinartss · 11 months

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on moving out

#for context i drew this during the paradise of providence event👍#repost of old art #kavetham #haikaveh #i still think abt kaveh moving out often #always a bit torn between it signifying him getting back on his feet + regaining confidence in himself #but like sometimes he's a bit of an unreliable narrator....remember when he was like #hm. the first thing i will do w the prize money is move out and then build another palace but ten times bigger! like oh...kaveh.....#plus he can sometimes be blind (purposefully or not) to what's actually good for him..bc we (and alhaitham LOL) know the significance of #him having a home that's not just a house and how full circle of a moment that is for him #its always interesting to consider that their living situation in itself is this in-between flux moment #though i think kaveh trying his best to escape this “chapter of his life” isn't necessarily the solution.....#i still don't know how tumblr works so if u have to go thru all my yapping in these tags to repost i am so sorry </3 #ok thats all thank u for coming to my ted talk

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yuriyuruandyuraart · 2 months

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Hi? Gosh how do I even start with this :'D

I know it's been ages since I've last popped up on here. I've been debating when to post this for a while, but I kept adding to my draft more and more and now it's the end of JULY omgg I felt so guilty disappearing with zero updates but then thought my birthday would be the best day to finally address this considering it'll feel less random? idk but Ive always celebrated my bday with you guys and I'd feel so bad answering your kind asks without me at least explaining why I was gone for months.

Truth be told, I was dealing with a lot of stuff irl. health issues and sudden declining grades that left me stumped and drained for months now- along with technical issues like having to replace some parts of my computer that took a while for me to find to even draw digitally, which I didn't have the time for anyway with how tired and weary I felt every day.

I'm frankly shaken up by a lot of shit rn and I don't know how to be active online with this burden on my chest- Especially as it's been a while since I've even looked at utmv related content and my motivation dwindled. I swear I'd hype myself up to post or reblog something- but I'd see just how much I've missed or the overwhelming amount of posts I'd need to go through and I'd feel so swamped with exhaustion and most importantly guilt, for not clearing the air up sooner to reassure you guys that I'm, y'know, alive, and not dead in a ditch somewhere. And I'd procrastinate cause typing it all out is hard and I'd give up halfway every time and it's just not fair to you all!

I thought I was handling it well when I started going out and socializing more, instead of staying cooped up at home on my computer all day. and in the first draft of this post I made months ago I was gonna detail some of the fun plans I had, for my life and for this blog :D but relaxing my strict study schedule and letting go a bit of my tight routine, thinking it was better than wringing myself dry to keep it up, backfired horribly, to say the least.

I know right?? so silly to be hung up on stupid shit like studies of all things! but this is a very important thing for me considering my career plans and the competitivity encouraged by everyone I'm surrounded by, the pressure of keeping up adding to my already stressful days. I had to fix myself up first and I couldn't handle the strain nor interact with people and thinking of jobs and exams sapped my energy so much it's frankly embarrassing. writing this feels so cheesy too and it frustrates me to know I could've come back a month earlier if it weren't for that, but I also know putting all of this into words then would just sound like incoherent venting (not that this is very different tbf) and I wasn't in the right headspace to address my absence, or anything really- I didn't want everyone to see me return when I couldn't muster up a genuinely positive message, let alone talk to anyone with a shadow of my usual cheer

I feel like a complete mess and It drives me up the wall how depressed I've gotten. I debated deleting this blog so many times 'cause the fear of disappointing my audience and my friends, for lack of a more fitting sentiment, made me feel even shittier. I'm constantly thinking if this wall of text is worth posting, or if it's better not to burden you all with all my sappy troubles as if it's the end of the world. Trust me, I'll be fine. I'm not trying to dramatize this situation, but I don't think I'm up to pretending I'm all sunshine and enthusiasm you're all accustomed to.

So sorry for worrying you all! I'll try to catch up, deliver some missed birthday gifts, and answer some asks while I'm at it! Again, I can't state how much I appreciate your support throughout the years. It's frankly a miracle I kept any of you around with how much I keep popping and leaving at random with no warning. I definitely can't promise for my stay to be without a hitch, and if you don't mind an inconsistent schedule you're free to stay of course, but I'm afraid I can't sustain the pace I had when I first started this blog. I'll keep posting art, but lower my activity in the fandom sphere to reduce the strain on my mental health. so fewer rants and walls of text, more art, and less stress overall. Love you all and thanks for waiting for this long <3

#I'm not leaving the fandom btw! Just realized it kinda sounds like I will but I won't!#Still got my fem versions and some animations to spice things up in case I feel less inclined to draw my resident skeles lol #To the people that reached out before this thank you SO much!!!#I know this is not gonna reach many people considering my leave but i deeply appreciate it<3 #I wouldn't be surprised if people forgot why they even followed me in the first place with how long I've left this time Hhhh #There's some plans about commissions as well cause no matter how many times I fix this poor pc it keeps failing me lmao #And I wanna try my hand at it to feel less pressured and dependent on my academics :')#It's a scary thought and an even scarier process and idk if you guys will be interested? but that's for another post ig >:)c #muah muah ily all thanks for EVERYTHING cause I'd restart this blog all anew if I didn't have so many people that I'd miss around here >:'D #blah blah Yuri is back on her bs so get ready for some banger art!!#To any mutual reading this pleaaaase bear with me if I don't reblog your art immediately #cause I've been tagged on a few and I wanna give them five tags each at minimum and I don't know where to start HHH #If there's something specific you want me to see you're welcome to tag me In it but don't be discouraged I haven't gotten to it yet!#This is So long I'm genuinely sorry aughghg 😭

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lightbulb-warning · 1 month

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so has anyone figured out WHY there is the Need To Share our Artworks™ or is it just the vibes and our Soul apparently

#ive been running on “two cakes. u aren't BOTHERING people by putting art on their feed they can scroll past it/if they dont they get ”cake“”#and we love “cake”#“cake” is picture on the internet in this case #like okay the contracts and transaction format is a me problem!! i need to get rid of the “utilitarian brain worms” bc they're boring #this is supposed to be a hobby and the “get a good grade in hobby” wolf in the brain is just crying bc that's how they understand the world #the “get a good grade in x” wolf has valid pain but needs to stop controlling my life because they don't need to earn “enough value to live”#ect ect ect #and the life of minmaxxed utility is a life of trying to appeal to a “correct” that doesn't exist yaddi yadda = boring #i love you wolf. also shut up. affectionate. concerned. you get it #ok so we remove tangible purpose from act of experience art because THAT'S not “the point”#because “the point” is the joy killer eccetera ecc #but then what? “here check out this labor of love. i drew this fucker 15 times. no there's no story* there it's just a guy”#*story in this case being an emotional engagement/a situation/a context in which to ponder/other #so it's just a Draw. no further analysis. what do others Get from that?#i know i deeply enjoy art because im a fan of the process of People Making Stuff. i love when there was nothing but now there's something!!!#THAT'S what's it all about!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to me!!!! right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!#so it stands to reason that creation is purpose enough?? to be experienced???? to be known????????#idk!!#this is a nothing burger of a thought people have always liked picture on the internet stfu maiora there doesn't need to be a reason #this is just the brainworms talking!!! because god forbid “something not have a purpose”??? blegh!!!!!!!!#sounds like unhealthy rationalizing instead of letting things be out of The Fear™!!sounds like depraving urself from joy bc of BRAINWORMS!!!#so like!!!!! picture on the internet doesn't NEED inherent value. creation is enough!! (plus there's the Attachment to Character. also.)#but then why are YOU *points at you* here? gen q!!#i made an image you like and now you are reading my word babble in some tags!!! what's THAT all about???????????#it's INTERESTING!! do you see what im trying to get at??#is it empathy??? person made something other saw something other made- other2other connection???? intrigue????????#.......all this is probably explained in some book or yt essay somewhere. oh well.#in the meantime thank you for your time! we can pretend we were stuck in an elevator together and then i started rambling #i hope you have a great rest of your day thanks for stopping by!! <3 #maiora garrulates

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wyrdle · 23 days

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I love the gay psientists. Also, some shenanigans recently with @fivetail's oc Nurse.

#doodles #shuji ikutsuki #takuto maruki #persona 3 #persona 5 #persona 3 reload #persona 5 royal #friend's oc: nurse #nurse has a tag now lmao #mariku #i never know how to tag this pairing #i don't think i need to anyway lmao who even looks at these men #i guess there are people who look at maruki...#i think i didnt tag my older things properly either dsfkjgndsfg just block me if you dont wanna see them #anyway i think it's stupid cute for shuji and takuto to be psientists together

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triglycercule · 2 months

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ok so there's murder time trio where theyre best buddies and get along and sometimes even having more than just platonic interactions. and then there's also the murder time trio where they genuinely just don't like each other and avoid each other and do NOT get along and to me there's just a VERY clear timeline of events that could connect these two group dynamics. like these 2 could coexist,,,,,,

nightmare's fresh outta his little corruption sequence and he needs his henchmen. goes out and gathers the obvious three killer horror and dust (does it really matter how he got them??? kidnapping or not the trio will warm up to him). its his first time having to deal with mentally unstable grown up mortal men and he really has no idea how to manage the team so he lets them have some slack. spoils em a bit yk yk stops fights allows them to hang out allows em to screw around the castle even COMFORTS them,,,, shocking i know (a slightly nice nightmare interpretation from triglycercule? UNFATHOMABLE!!!!)

this killer's fresh outta something new so he's still kinda curious and nosy. he hasnt seen the multiverse and especially not interacted with nightmare/horrordust so he's kinda more outgoing and friendly (ish. to get to know better everyone and satisfy the curiosity of seeing what reactions and feelings these fellas could give him.) bc killer's not that much of a prick and horror and dust would naturally SLIGHTLY get along (and if in the right environment be good buddies. which is nm's lenience and killer's not shittiness) the mtt actually get along pretty well and are good buds!! like the first group dynamic i mentioned where the bad sanses are just kinda like a friend group except they have some weird work relations

and then a fight breaks out and nightmare kills either dust or horror (what about??? anything!) likely dust first because he's more likely to be wary of nm (if kidnapped) and also because he's just kinda more actively righteous compared to horror (who likely wouldn't do much against nm) or killer (does not give a shit.) dust dies, horror likely dies defending dust and that just leaves the og killer and nightmare

nightmare is like "oh shit i just killed my workers". he'll take like a week to ponder what he did and then completely move on (because hes an ass like that.) nightmare gets another horror and dust to replace the ones he killed. and killer is just like wtf how do i deal with this. the guys i were kinda friends were are dead but their copies are right here. like he knew copies existed in the utmv but he didn't think nightmare was so willing to replace them so fast???

this killer's still adapting to the multiverse and stuff (it probably hasn't even been a year since he got snatched up!!!) and yeah hes aware that copies exist and he could get replaced by one but he didn't think that it would LITERALLY HAPPEN RIGHT BEFORE HIS EYES. so he decides to stick more around nm and avoid getting replaced like the og dust and horror because it really just hammers in the point that he's kinda useless if he speaks out like those 2. hes avoidant of the new replacements as well bc hes still new to this experience and is getting used to the whole implications of two guys that were once him and he was friends with died and got replaced by basically the same person

but they still have to work together for obvious reasons. and even if killer's avoiding horror and dust they probably aren't avoiding each other and probably are like wary friends/acquaintances. and naturally killer HAS to become okay worker buddy pals with them because hes stuck living with them. nightmare's a lot stricter and cold to avoid something like dust's rebellion against him happening again. mtt are wary of each other (mostly towards killer. horrordust are pals and killer's kinda growing more apathetic to the duo because he's already experienced a lot of the stuff before with the og two that died.) but theyre still "friends" you could say

and then perchance maybe horror and dust decide to let killer in on a lil secret theyve been cooking up. theyre planning to escape (kidnapped DUH. and nm isn't as nice as he was to og horrordust to warrent them to wanna stay) and even though they don't really trust killer theyre still letting him in on the plan and offer for him to come with them because they lowkey feel bad for him and he's really not all that bad under all the bullshit

but killer saw what happened to the og dust and horror so he says no. and the night that the duo are planning to escape he just has this overwhelming sense of dread. the next morning he wakes up to nightmare standing over his bed with a cold glare telling him of horror and dust's attempted escape and death and killer just kinda. sighs. his dread was right (he was lowkey hoping that they could escape so they didn't die like the original 2)

and then the cycle repeats. previous dust or horror or both die to nightmare or some random outside force or escape (because it has to happen eventually right??) and the pair keep getting replaced. killer keeps witnessing their deaths and replacements and at this point he's just so used to it that he doesn't even TRY to interact with the new horrors and dusts. theyre not even like real people that are getting killed and replaced like robots to him anymore they're just distant coworkers that get fired and then a new one comes to take up the position

each new dust or horror is icked out by nightmare and killer. nightmare is incredibly cold and intimidating and dictatorial and just sucks in general. and killer gives them this distant look. like he knows something they dont. he's already proven to them that he knows that they should obey nightmare and how to deal with the king and they know he's been here longer than them but even when he's not with nightmare or not talking about him they get the blank stare

sometimes when a nicer replacement of horror decides to do something nice for killer like make him a meal he just gives him that look and declines (there's already been countless different horrors that tried doing nice stuff for him. it's not new and nice in his eyes anymore.) maybe when a dust replacement gets irked by killer's apathy and decides to try and say something that'll bother him or snoop through his personal stuff killer will just walk away or kick him out of his room with that creepy ass blank stare again (it's not the first time a dust has tried to rile him up. it's not new or interesting and just predictable)

killer just doesn't CARE about the new horrors and dusts. they're all pretty much the same two guy except maybe a bit nicer or meaner or quieter or even taller or something?? all he really cares about is is serving nightmares atp, no other outside relationships. and ngl he doesn't even care that much about nightmare either. he's already figured out his thinking he's already figured out all of his likes and dislikes and what not to do to piss him off. the only reason he's still dealing with him is because he doesn't have anything else better to do and he doesn't wanna be useless to the one guy that he's served all this time

he's just kinda stuck in an empty boring limbo that killer's only maintaining due to a lack of motivation and any other priorities. and personally i just think this bad sans dynamic is lowkey tragic because like killer keeps witnessing all these guys that he used to be friends or enemies or rivals or whatever with and they just keep dying or leaving him behind. not one ever stays for THAT long (because no wayyyy a dust or horror would take being under a cruel nightmare well) and it's given him this idea that none of these people matter (aside from the important one which is nm) because they're just gonna leave me and the connections ill have formed with them will be for nothing so why even try being vulnerable and friendly and interacting with these cheap copies of the guys i USED to be friends with

#nobody asked for this but i wanted to think of this #i don't know why i always have this idea that just because nobody asked for it doesn't mean nobody wants it. I WANTED TO WRITE THIS!!!!!#see this would work better if it were a fanfic and not a cheap tumblr post about this vague idea #i just wrote this because i really like the image of a blank eyed knowing looking killer #like he KNOWS something about dust and horror that they don't. and it bothers them severely #WHAT DOES HE KNOW??? their death or leaving is what #you ever think that killer has this crazy good sense of being able to predict the future #like he's just gotten so used to things that he just knows their next move #he would be crazy good at reading people and figuring out their behaviors #psycho analyze these guys until he could ACT like them. because what else does he have better to do when so bored and apathetic :3 #this (may or may not be) is inspired by a song. i was imagining a dust and horror who kept trying to leave nm and failing miserably #and each time killer would tell their story of how they died or how the previous 2 died #he's like a little time capsule. he stores the experiences and memories of each copy of horror and dust to never tell anyone #because who else would be hell??? the MIRROR??? NIGHTMARE??? lmao no #would this make killer much older than the horrors and dusts that get replaced. maybe i think that would be cool #he lies about how old he is to the other two because if he didn't then they would act differently and not like how he predicts #and anything new and unexpected is kinda scary to killer #ok i think that's enough elaborating in tags. time to actually TAG #killer sans #dust sans #horror sans #murder time trio #nightmare sans #bad sanses #bad sans gang #nightmare's gang #what tricule tag category does this go in hmmmm hmmmm #this COULD be a hc and BOTH an analysis. but which one...............#i guess analysis because there's not really anything outrageously ooc in this one #tricule analyze

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