#i assume this is also why flowey can reset cause in a way he still holds charas soul (kinda)

[v-134]

How strong is Papyrus….REALLY?

Anyone else notice how many vines Flowey uses to hold Papyrus? Some may argue it's because of how tall he is...then again, look at Asgore! He's bigger than Papyrus! Everyone else is only held by 2 vines! Think about it! Papyrus is capable of controlling his attack power, making it so you can't loose to him, only so your health is low enough so he can capture you and send you to his "Garage". And Papyrus and Flowey are friends, so flowey would probably be aware of how strong he is, all I'm saying is! What is Papyrus's REAL power, and WHY does he have so many vines to hold him! He’s one of the few people how can actually control your SOUL. Undyne has stated already that he's pretty strong, and he already probably wasn't fighting his hardest, since Undyne is a friend. Sans only does so much harm to us because of our LOVE and karma stats. We have no idea what Flowey's LOVE is, because he kept resetting. Either way, Papyrus is at least as strong as Asgore, who is already stated to be way more powerful than Undyne, and is capable of dodge mechanics. This means Asgore could be as powerful as Sans, if not more powerful, and Papyrus is more powerful than that!

A semi popular theory surrounding papyrus actually revolved around battle animation.

You see, characters like Sans, Mettaton, Undyne, Asgore, etc have idle battle animations and they also move when attacking. Toriel doesn’t really move her body but her facial expression changes depending on how you proceed in the battle. But Papyrus has no idle animation. He just stands there, with no facial expression changes or anything. And a lot of people theorize that idle animation = power.

We know that Sans only has 1 HP in canon, but because of how much he sleeps, it builds up over time. But he still dodges and moves around a lot.

Asgore is more stoic, standing relatively still except for what I can only assume is him breathing. When he attacks, he doesn’t usually move unless he’s attacking with his trident. As stated before, Toriel won’t move much but she will change her facial expressions and she will cover her mouth in shock when she kills you.

But Papyrus doesn’t do anything.

Oh, and you want strong? Remember his "really cool regular attack?" That's one of the hardest attacks in the Neutral/Pacifist routes to dodge.Think about that. That was a TASTE of what Papyrus is capable of.

Better yet, Papyrus is in such good control over his magic during his fight. Even though he's being SUPER casual about it. There's a said theory that movement in the battle sprites in Undertale represents how concentrated they are, with high movement being highly concentrated, and low movement being not concentrated. And Papyrus? Still as a statue. Even the text boxes support this. He's so out of focus, he can accidentally prepare the wrong attack, causing him to spend a minute fixing his mistake. It's even worse if you flirt with him, as he's more focused on preparing for the date then preparing his attacks. MIDBATTLE. And he even forgets he doesn't have ears. Think about how hard the fight would be if Papyrus was focused.

All in all, it’d be super funny if he was like, crazy powerful :P

GUYS DONT COME AT ME IM RUNNING ON LOW SLEEP AND RANTING, BUT!! Am i wrong?

[profounddefendorcrusade-blog]

I feel like most fans would describe Clover as this independent person who's got their stuff together and can handle anything, but these people often forget that Clover didn't start out like this.

Just like Starlo, Clover was only pretending to be a hero. This kid initially was clumsy and had a poor sense of the physical world, when you remember how they died at every turn.

The thing about them is that they subconsciously become more skilled the more they die, and the more Flowey resets. That's why Clover doesn't seem like a scared, clumsy kid when we first meet them. Because they've experienced so many resets, over a hundred, and died so many times, they now appear more "put together."

But even with all that being said, Flowey still has to encourage them to believe in themself more and not to be afraid of a new place (specifically Snowdin). He still has to lift Clover's spirits and he still asks them why they have a "long face" during their "first" encounter.

just one example

I've been trying to figure out whether or not I've typed Clover correctly, so I decided to do something else and compare them to Frisk. Now, we don't know how old Frisk is, but we can assume that all the fallen children were in a similar age range.

The thing is, Frisk had a way better sense of navigating the Underground. They had a better sense of direction, and unlike Clover, didn't die during the easiest possible fights (and especially the lasers in Hotland).

I like to think that, in some of the previous runs, Clover met Alphys, and she explained to them what to do, but they became paralyzed with fear and/or forgot that they simply had to run through the orange lasers. I guess that would mean Clover's more "flighty" than most fans think.

more comparisons with popular sayings

...intuiting AGAIN (I also find it interesting how they just FELT that the person on the pillar was Integrity, hence the silence)

Heck, even here they tend to zone out (it's their 100+ run, so I suppose it's an innate trait):

It wasn't Clover's personality that got them this far, but circumstances, aka Flowey. Without him intervening, they'd still be sheltered and safe, they wouldn't have become fearless enough to deal with so much stuff, and especially willingly die in the end (I feel like Clover never really knew just HOW brave they are beneath the naivety and clumsiness, and they brought the toy gun to only FEEL brave).

Again, what they needed was efficency and an idea on HOW to put their plan of saving the kids into action. Clover was always altruistic, but they were also clueless and clumsy and insecure and afraid of danger. That's why they had decided to stay with Toriel. Because their fear had stopped them from acting upon what they believed was the right thing to do.

Frisk didn't need THIS many resets. They even managed to defeat geno Undyne and Sans WITHOUT Flowey "guiding them along." Flowey saw Clover as so weak that he offered them Friendliness Pellets (minus in Pacifist 'cause Ceroba's there + she also gave Clover extra defense)

when it comes to their mbti...

Those with Ti/Se (ISTPs) are grounded and adaptable, whereas Clover literally had to be forced into dangerous situations to become more "capable" of dealing with the Underground.

Yeah, Clover always had this inferior Te (this leadership quality), when you remember that they wanted to "realize their plan," but it was really REALLY poorly developed. That's pretty much what got them to chicken out. They had no clue what to do, and they didn't want to die.

It hits even harder when they do just that in the end.

[cherry-shipping]

SOMETIMES i get a little sad (only a little) about how my undertale s/i has nothing to do with the events in undertale whatsoever, and just. have no idea nor could never fully understand what frisk and everyone else went through down there. like, sure, they can tell stories and possibly even visit the underground (i assume some monsters wanted to stay down there, too) but like. they have no way of grasping everything that happened to everyone. and im happy with my s/i the way it is so i guess there could POSSIBLY be an au where they fall down WITH frisk and go through the story together, but. well that has a lot of plot holes LOL

[under-lore]

In genocide route, after player/Frisk/Chara beating Sans, he says “Don’t say I didn’t warn you”. It’s believed that he knows about Chara’s intention to destroy the world and (sort of) warns Frisk/player about it. What do you think about this?

Sans is indeed aware that a timeline erasure is about to take place in the very near future.

In fact, that is the very reason he fights us in the first place, not just because of the killing we did.

Its possible to kill more people in a neutral route then on a genocide one and in those routes Sans will not fight us, same goes if we kill Papyrus for instance. Sans hates our guts, yet he will not fight.

This is because Sans knows that eventually, it's all going to be RESET. These deaths are not permanent. They will be undone eventually and Sans knows this.

If things are going to be RESET in the end, then instead of fighting us, the better option in case of mass murder is simply to either wait for a RESET or to try and get the anomaly to turn to a better path himself.

Either by trying to push the anomaly in the right direction.

Or by guilt-tripping it into a RESET.

He does this both because it means that those who died will be alive again in this next TI even if he won't be there to see it but also because Sans here still believes that the anomaly can be redeemed and change its ways.

In those neutral routes, Sans is hoping those things will indeed happen after the eventual RESET. An idea that he gives up upon in genocide during the second phase.

However, in a genocide route, the situation is completely different.

He explains to us what this difference is early on in the fight.

"Jumping left and right" corresponds to LOADING.

"Stopping and starting" corresponds to RESETING.

But here, what comes next is a brutal stop to all of the previous timeline shenanigans. Instead of the perpetual time loops from before, everything meets an abrupt end.

"Everything ends" corresponds to ERASE. The destruction of the world that is indeed specific to only genocide routes.

Unlike in neutral routes, things will NOT be RESET in the end in this route.

This means that this time, the consequences of the genocide will be permanent if things keep going the way they are.

This is the reason why Sans can't afford not to care this time. He needs to step in and make the anomaly RESET before it reaches the point where "everything ends" as otherwise, everything will be destroyed in a way that, as far as Sans knows, is completely irreversible.

That is why he needs them to QUIT now before its too late. Before they eventually reach the point of no return.

And so, if Sans is Sans is defeated. There is nothing left preventing the anomaly from causing the end of the world as Sans had warned them they would.

What is worth mentioning too is that Sans' vision of the events isn't quite the full picture. As far as he knows, there was only ever one timespace anomaly and this anomaly is the one that somehow causes the world to end.

Sans doesn't know exactly how the world is destroyed either, but he knows that its about to happen from the fact that the reports showed the incoming end of all timelines.

He isn't aware of the difference between Frisk, Chara and the player. Neither does he know that most of the timeline shenanigans he pinned on Frisk were actually Flowey's fault.

To him, the PFC is just one single entity : "the anomaly". He assumed that the one SAVING and LOADING was the same person as the one that goes on the ERASE the world even if in actuality, the one who has the determination to SAVE, the one that decided to begin the genocide and the one that destroys the world actually are three different people.

There is one more dimension to this : The "Bad time" line seems to have a double meaning. It seems to refer both to the fight against Sans itself and to the upcoming end of the world.

Even during the Sans fight, we are still "going" to have a bad time. This is very a clever way wording of it. The real bad time time is still upcoming, and its fast approaching.

Since what comes next is the end of all timelines and that Sans believes Frisk to be the one and only anomaly. He assumes that the anomaly is about to cause its own destruction as well as it couldn't exist outside of time and space.

Thus, even after Sans is struck down, his warning about the anomaly having a bad time still stands.

The anomaly chose to pursue a path that leads to the destruction of the world, and now its about to get exactly what it asked for.

Sans is warning the anomaly about itself. Not the player or Frisk about Chara.

[maxladcomics]

Re: your post about Sans not actually knowing Papyrus. I'm a fan of the 'Papyrus is Gaster, but because everyone has forgotten Gaster, Papyrus has also forgotten himself' theory. And I had Thoughts of along similar lines to 'no one really knows Papyrus because he always lies', albeit from a slightly. Different source?

That is, Papyrus DOES lie a lot. But the people who seem to care about him most and actively seek his company, and the characters who are the most affected by him are all characters with high amounts of Determination.

Like, sure, yeah. if you kill Papyrus, Sans vanishes and then asks you about how you should be wielding power, and he may threaten you at the end of a phone call. But overall, his role in the game doesn't change much at all, and his attitude in the endings seems more representative of the Underground's attitude.

But as we know, Flowey is the previous holder of reset. We know he's probably the person who actually knows the most about Papyrus(only one to REALLY know his favorite food), and he's also confessed Papyrus is the person he finds the most interesting.

But! There's also Undyne! Now, she may not know as much about Papyrus as Flowey does, and I think she projects her own view of him onto him. But she's probably the character who talks about Papyrus as a friend the most. From Sans' dialogue about Papyrus, he views him as someone naive in need of protection. And to basically everyone else, Papyrus is not Papyrus, but who he is in connection to those around him. A skeleton who informs Undyne of problems, Sans loud and tall brother, etc.

But Undyne... Papyrus still lies to her, and she still thinks Papyrus is too nice, but she acknowledges his strength. She doesn't want to upset him, she wants to see him succeed and tries to help him do so in her own way, by giving him something to be passionate about. And when you kill him, it enrages her. I'm sure it enrages Sans, too, but she doesn't just judge you for it, confronts you much earlier and demands to know what you did to Papyrus.

So I wonder if there's. Something like a not-my-problem field around Papyrus, or spacetime distortion, that causes only people with Determination to really see him? Not that his lies make it any easier. it could also just be the lying, that's a lot simpler and more likely, but I do agree that Sans definitely does not know Papyrus anywhere near as much as he thinks he does, and is just running on a number of assumptions. Which is simultaneously weird and sad, that Papyrus has so few friends and not even his brother can really be counted among them.

...At any rate! Hope you enjoyed my rambling and found it interesting!

I DO FIND THAT INTERESTING.

Actually that brings up a good point, how forgettable or even ignore-able Papyrus is. Maybe he's yelling because no one pays attention to him pfff, I mean he tells so many jokes just for them to go over peoples heads, he shows excessive consideration towards others, just for the fandom to assume he's an asshole because he 'reacts badly' to puns.

//For those that don't know, they are doing a bit/playing with you. Sans' puns wouldn't be anywhere near as funny if Papyrus didn't react to them the way he does. Which makes it weirder to why Sans doesn't react to his at all. Why would he ignore them when it obviously makes him happy that Papyrus reacts? It's not just sans, tho, Undyne doesn't seem to notice or react to his puns either, but he responds to hers.//

The entire underground- or at least I know the entirety of Snowdin is affected when he's dusted. They all feel unsafe and unsettled suddenly, Papyrus has a huge effect on them. I do really love Undyne's response to him being dusted, the fact she knows he answers after two rings of his phone, means they talk a lot, and I love that.

Sans's reaction gives me the impression of "ok we're doing this run, byyyyeee" He only calls you a dirty brother killer, nothing else. He seems to care more about murdering you on a pacifist run than any other... I'm not hating on Sans for this, I'm just pointing it out- his vague awareness has put him in a mood of "Nothing REALLY matters" so it's because of that he doesn't really seem to care about Papyrus dying. He'll just call you a dirty brother killer and move into Toriel's house. Probably because he doesn't wanna deal with anyone asking about Papyrus, she doesn't know he exists, after all.

[a-town-called-hometown]

ASRIEL NAILING HIS COFFIN SHUT SO TRUE. i don't even know what that acronym stands for i'm assuming it's an au but like even in canon. he stays behind next to chara's grave because he can't see a future that he gets to be a part of. even during his resets he was just recreating the same situations over and over because he couldn't get back to that idealized past before everything was ruined.

nhatcb stands for Never Had A Chance To Bloom, my post-pacifist soulless asriel au! it's essentially my thesis on why I think turning back into a goat child would NOT fix asriel and in fact would cause him a myriad of other problems, but also on why I think he really doesn't need a soul to lead a happy life. the whole fic is him getting dragged kicking and screaming into doing shit like "attending therapy" and "admitting that he's not an undead creature incapable of feeling emotions" and "dealing with his trauma." he hates everything and does NOT want to get better and it's GREAT

also YEAH! asriel really, really fucking wants to stay in his sunlit garden. he hasn't conceptualized himself as someone who can grow and change for a long, long time. even after the end, when he's accepted that he can't ever go back and that his memories are more idealized than the reality, he chooses to stay in his coffin. he'd much rather think of himself as dead than accept the terrifying possibility that he CAN live a fulfilling life. it's just far too much for him to consider the pain that growth will require.

the door to the coffin is open, for the first time ever. the underground is free to go. and asriel just says "no thanks," lays back down in his coffin, and nails the door shut. he's a lot more comfortable there. in a lot of ways, he thinks that's where he deserves to be.

that being said, the alarm clock dialogue DOES give me a lot of hope that he'll figure out a way to reintegrate into society. sure, he's still sort of mean and standoffish as flowey, but he's made friends and he's clearly had some character development. he cares a lot more than he lets on. I think he'll eventually find a way to pry that coffin door back open, even if it takes him a long time.

[mrfandomgage]

Chara, lying down: I was more like a disappointing pet to my dad. He wasn't afraid to beat me down or cut me up with beer bottle glasses. I got away from all that, was a poor influence on Asriel. A lot of what happened to me was because mom died at birth.

Chara, thinking: Then, everything got worse. Met my wife in the worst way possible. That was-

Gage: around the second reset, Frisk was being tormented by Flowey, and their own depressive outbursts made them kill

Chara: ... I don't like how you know that, but yes. I think things really only got better around Middle to Highschool. Though, I do have a great family to thank for that. What about you?

Gage: I am... just a metaphor for a writer and creativity.

Chara: you do have your own story though. What's with the glowing cloak you got? Why does water not caress your hippie face?

Gage, thinking: ok. When I was around 16, my mom died. My siblings left house with little contact, and it was my dad, me, and my little sibling. Course, some of my own history is a representation of my creator's history through different lenses because-

Chara: Backstory, not explaining the backstory

Gage: Right. Well, I had fights with my dad. Not all that pleasant. It caused me to be stressed at night and filled with paranoia in my own bed. So I took night walks. One night, I took a longer walk than usual. I'm walking back home and I notice something unusual

Chara: what was it?

Gage: ... I have no idea. I just woke up and felt like energy was pumping through my body. Enough energy that I accidentally started a fire by flicking it onto my books and put it own with a flood on accident.

Chara: so, you just woke up with powers?

Gage: it wasn't just powers, it was an infinite expanse of energy. Once I realized that, I tried forcing it to make me remember but then I passed out from the agonizing headache I just gave myself. I can force myself to remember other things, but this? Nope.

Chara: that's dumb. Sounds like you just didn't know what to write for it.

Gage: to be honest, I had several ideas. An eldritch god that I couldn't comprehend but seeing it alone gave me power. A magical fairy well I accidentally drowned in, and was transported home entrenched in power. Dave from accounting. Maybe it was the amount of options alone or a truly infinite collide of options, and that's why I can't remember

Chara: still sounds kinda dumb. So you just got better at controlling the energy

Gage: I did dumb shit with it. Rewritten history so my last name is Fandom, made a cloak with a universe in it, made a bunch of timelines for no one to see

Chara: so I guess you made me? God is real, but I'm not gonna pray to you

Gage: well, I made this separate version of you. In a canon sense, the original timeline abruptly ends.

Chara: Original?

Gage: well, there are certain facts in the game that indicate that the original timeline and most true ending to the game is the one where... everyone dies and the world is permanently lost

Chara: ... those unlucky bastards. Well, I guess that's just another version of me that didn't have time to learn

Gage: most people assume the worlds run off code

Chara: well, you said game. Does my world run off code?

Gage: I think it's more a script

Chara: ... huh, that explains that...

Chara: hey, what other universes are there?

Gage: oh, there are as many as you can imagine

Chara: really?

Gage: actually, properly speaking there is so much that even if you perceive chances to be lower than 1% everything is an absolute guaranteed value with not only that this timeline replicated more than trillions of times, but it's replicated by every atom in existence and by every point in time in existence to a point where it's truly an infinite circumstance to have this one universe existing again and again with the same exact events and same exact people.

Chara: ... what?

Gage: there is more than anyone can properly comprehend. Even myself.

Chara: you just rambled there, so I didn't really get it

Chara: also, Frisk sent me this photo of her making dinner with Chris

Gage: why are they lit with an orange light?

Chara: the fridge is probably on fire again

[argentdandelion]

The True Power of NEO: Part 4

To see previous entries in the series, check out “The True Power of NEO” tag on the ArgentDandelion blog. Made with help from CinnamonAzzy, Batter-Sempai and Ihasafandom.

The bosses of Undertale’s Genocide Route represent turning points, or how far the Human would go in exterminating monsterkind and gaining power. Mettaton NEO’s battle is no exception: it’s a a turning point for the scope of the human’s violence and hate. Although the fact Mettaton dies in one strike makes his fight anticlimactic, game-play wise, the fight and its results are still important.

Neutral Route

If the human was holding back, Mettaton says:

Mettaton NEO: “You may have defeated me...but...I know. I can tell from that strike, darling. You were holding back. Yes, Asgore will fall easily to you...but you won't harm humanity, will you? You aren't absolutely evil. If you were trying to be, then you messed up. And so late into the show, too. Ha...ha. At least now, I can rest easy. Knowing Alphys and the humans will live on...!"

If the human was “holding back” when striking Mettaton, the Human is shunted onto the Neutral Route: the monsters live. Humanity, it’s implied, also survives. As evil as the Human was, their LOVE wasn’t enough to reach “the absolute” of evil and power: they still were “holding back”.

But why would Mettaton say the Human, a mass murderer, “wasn’t absolutely evil” and “if [you] were trying to be, then you messed up”? Would the human’s willingness to kill their own kind really mean much, when they’ve killed so many monsters? After all, in real-life someone who kills only animals might be called “evil”.

Most likely, this was one final mind game from Mettaton, a psychological trick to make them lose the will to kill. If the Human equates being “evil” with the strength to keep killing, then being told they’re “not absolutely evil” may discourage them. This may seem strange, since people who commit atrocities in real life often consider their actions neutral or even good. However, there’s one wrinkle to this: if NarraChara theory is true, Chara supplies descriptions, including on the Genocide Route. On that route, and only that route, potted plants in the Hotland resort are described with "the potted plant(s) [are] judging you for your sins." Interestingly, not once do Frisk/Chara/the Human contradict claims of their evil, which may suggest they believe they’re evil, or are not sure they are justified.

Mettaton’s speech is true: Alphys, most monsters, and surely humanity survive after that point. Unless the human’s heart was sufficiently hardened by LOVE when meeting Mettaton NEO (not something Mettaton can predict or control) the human’s kills afterwards are limited: only Asgore and/or Flowey can be killed after that point. In a way, Neutral Route Mettaton is (posthumously) a hero.

Genocide Route

But, if Mettaton is killed at full strength, Mettaton’s dying speech is only one sentence long. Killing Mettaton also elevates the Human’s LOVE by whatever amount is necessary to reach LV 19: potentially a massive amount. Assuming that LOVE is detachment and estrangement from others, or a figurative hardening of the heart, the sheer psychological cost of killing someone so humanlike as Mettaton NEO could harden the heart much more rapidly than killing other monsters.

Mettaton’s death on the Genocide Route could be meaningful for another reason. If NarraChara theory is true, Mettaton’s death might strengthen Chara’s influence over Frisk. According to NarraChara theory, Chara provides descriptions for Frisk, and the evidence for Chara’s existence is especially strong in the Genocide Route. In that route, Chara’s influence seems to increase with greater LOVE: greater LOVE causes first-person description styles in a few areas. Chara “hated humanity” and even wanted to use the “full power” of a monster-human SOUL fusion to kill some humans while sharing control of Asriel’s body. As Source-powered-archineer pointed out[1], Chara may therefore hate Mettaton for loving humans and looking so much like them. While hating humanity and wanting to kill them aren’t the same thing, high LOVE on the Neutral or Genocide Routes may have combined with Chara’s hate to cause a one-hit kill.

Notably, while Chara may very well hate humanity on the Neutral Routes, the same effects don’t happen for Mettaton EX. Apparently, hating humanity isn’t quite enough to override inhibitions against killing them, short of sufficient LOVE. [2] Since Genocide Route progression depends on minimum kills, not EXP nor LOVE, the Neutral and Genocide Routes can have equivalent EXP/LOVE at some points. Thus, neither LOVE nor EXP is enough to attack at full force: only utter dedication to extermination proves the human is “absolutely evil” and tips the scales into attacking Mettaton NEO at full force.

Conclusion

In the Neutral Route, Mettaton was a doomed character, probably too driven to fulfil his dreams to attack pragmatically. However, in his death, he becomes a hero (posthumously). The remaining monsters (exempting Asgore), humanity, and the world itself probably survive the murder spree of the genocidal human.

In the Genocide Route, however, Mettaton still dies, but it accomplishes nothing. The genocidal human’s choice is solidified: with no way back to a Neutral Route, the only options are proceeding or resetting. It becomes clear the very world or timeline is under threat, and the only real obstacle left is a lazy, cheating jokester.

If you liked this content, check out the ArgentDandelion Ko-Fi and Patreon. (links on the original blog sidebar)

[1] https://()nochocolate.tumblr.com()/post/168021735994/the-bosses-in-the-genocide-route (Remove spaces to see link) [2] Counterpoint: Chara was willing to kill humans while part of Asriel, and was quite capable of doing so. Some interpretations of the scene give Chara a reason to detest those particular humans, or point out the humans were attacking or were about to attack Asriel before Chara tried to attack them. That being said, hatred not being enough to kill is generally true, and the fact Frisk is along for the ride does complicate matters.

[bublp0pr]

Soul Theory abridged (+ my theories)

So a bit ago I wanted to make this post about Chara and Asriel but i realised i kept having to explain myself when i talk about the nature of souls. It’s so damn annoying to try and explain every time so i figured i should compile my understanding of the game’s pseudoscience on the matter (as well as throw in theories that i operate under). Took me a bit to get it all out but i think it’s worth it (i’m such a nerd).

I tried to be impartial but i am stating my own theories at points so don’t treat everything as fact. I try to state when i’m just coming up with my own opinion though.

I couldn’t help but start a lot of personal notes (using ~italics~) and tangents along the way, sorry (I put headers before and after them so you can skip though, don’t worry :P) .

---

Let’s start with the basics. The soul is the very culmination of one’s being. There are 2 known types of general souls: human and monster. There is also a subclass of monster soul known as a boss monster which acts differently to normal monster souls (more on that later).

Stats

HP

A soul has the core statistic of ‘HP’ which defines its original and current state of health relative to how many hit points it could take before the soul will be destroyed. For example, a monster with A/B HP: this indicates their soul is originally capable of receiving B hit points of damage (the number to the right of the slash) and in their current state they can receive A more hit points before they die (the number to the left of the slash).

Some speculate that HP is short for HOPE.

Monster food, rest, DREAMS and “being filled with determination” are all the ways the game mentions to ‘recover’ HP, or in other words raise the statistic’s current value. With one exception, all forms of increasing HP cannot raise a current statistic above it’s original value, making this the soul’s normal limit. Rest however has the unique ability of raising the current value above this limit.

A soul can increase its original (i.e. maximum) HP by gaining ‘LV’.

LV (plus AT and DF)

Also known as ‘LOVE’, LV is short for level of violence. The normal soul begins with an LV of 1, as any being is in some way capable of committing violence, regardless of their disposition towards it. LV affects the nature of how ‘easily’ a soul is able to defend itself against others and hurt those around them. To me, this implies that a minimum quantity of this statistic is necessary for a soul’s basic survival because it regulates all defensive and offensive function.

~This sounds like weird stuff to be specific about but trust me, I’ve read comics where Frisk has had ZERO LV. Firstly: check the menu at the start of the game!! Second: I mean, come on! Come ON! Seriously? The character who 50% of the time agrees to go along with Chara’s plan has 0 LV to start?? If you had 0 LV you wouldn’t survive your first fight.You would also be incapable of gaining LV in the first place as you would find killing fundamentally impossible. But hey that’s only my interpretation. ~

Numerically, LV increases a person’s statistic values of DF and AT (which reflect that ‘easiness’ to defend and hurt). DF reduces the hit points a soul will receive from attack. AT raises the amount of hit points a soul’s attack can potentially deal. I won’t go further into these however because there isn’t much linking them to the soul.

~ohh i’m tempted to start an extensive tangent [foreshadowing my bad habit...] about what i think DT and AT are really linked to... but that’s not relevant to this bc it’s not about the soul so i’ll just drop it.~

EXP

LV is increased by obtaining ‘EXP’ through the act of killing other souls. EXP stands for execution points. A set amount of EXP is required for each increase in LV, with a larger amount needed for every transition. I like to think this is suggestive of how the more you commit violence, the more desensitised you become to the basic acts; only actions severe relative to your current stance or something you still find to be a large mass count of simple murder can trigger the rise.

The game doesn’t specifically state what variables go into determining how much EXP a kill will result in. From what i can tell based on the game: the strength of emotional attachment, overall difficulty of the battle and brutality/mercilessness in how you kill them all factor in, but this is purely personal opinion.

EXP and LV remain permanent irreversible values within a run that cannot be decreased- only increased. 

There is an instance of losing an ‘experience point’ when attacking Naptsablook (whose intangible body makes the action redundant and even counter-intuitive) however note that EXP represent execution points not experience points making this situation meaningless. ~(thanks nochocolate for the blog post about it that cleared things up for me. Almost started a long theory tangent about the loss of EXP without realising the deliberate difference lol. http://nochocolate.tumblr.com/post/152125281314/if-you-tried-to-kill-napstablook-which-is ) ~

No amount of good deeds can remove LOVE gained. However, altercations to the timeline can reverse LV and EXP. This means that these qualities are not transferable with the restoration of the soul on loading/resetting a timeline. Similarly, AT, DF and HP are reset to their previous state when reloading (though, because accessing a save point restores your health before even offering to use determination to SAVE, some consider HP not to be set to its previous state but simply fully restored).

Death and persisting

When a normal monster soul loses all HP, it shatters, causing the monster to die.

Human souls and boss monster souls however can “persist after death”. The exact implications of this are unknown, however evidence indicates that it involves the soul continuing to exist after the body is destroyed (consider Asgore and the 6 human souls).

Irrelevant Non-Canon Theory Tangent Time! ( I will eventually go back to the main point, i promise... or you can just skip this lol)

This being said, when Frisk loses all their HP in the game, their soul breaks in two before shattering into infinitely small pieces that scatter off screen.

Now, their soul is exposed during battle in a way that monster souls aren’t. When Frisk uses FIGHT, they are damaging the monster’s body. After the body becomes dust, the soul then shatters killing the monster. But when a monster attacks the human, their magic is targeting Frisk’s soul, “the very culmination of [their] being”, rather than simply their body. This explains how HP can be lowered as simply a stat without affecting Frisk’s actual physical condition (like breaking their legs or leaving bruises etc.) and how Frisk is able to survive the conditions from attacks that would normally kill someone (bombs, intense heat etc.) What this means however is that a monster damages their actual soul in battle, meaning that by trying to kill them they are destroying the soul.

This does not make sense. The soul of course needs to remain intact for Asgore to use it and break the barrier. The only contradiction to this is Papyrus, who instead captures you when you reach 1 HP. But it is established that Papyrus misunderstands the general objective of monsters attacking humans, so this is not done deliberately to maintain the soul for Asgore. Even Asgore himself, when fighting you to collect your soul, triggers a shatter scenario when he defeats you.

All of this leads me to think that when a monster brings a human’s HP to 0, this is not expected to destroy the soul. That can mean one of three things: A) Frisk’s soul works differently to what the monsters are familiar with, B) The soul is supposed shatter and the pieces are collected because that’s how human souls ‘persist’, or C) Something is destroying their soul other than the monster after their HP drops.

Possibility B is irregular though, because this is not how Asgore’s soul ‘persists’ when you defeat him. For a brief period, the soul remains intact, hovering over the space Asgore previously filled. Note that this time period is longer than any of Frisk’s pauses after they lose all HP. After Flowey attacks the boss monster soul, it too shatters in the same way as Frisk’s and the game treats it as though his soul is now unrecoverable after this action. As humans and boss monsters are both described as having souls that last without bodies using the same term (persist) it would make sense that they function in the same way so possibility B is unlikely in my opinion.

My theory is that Frisk refuses to ‘persist’ in order to return to their save point. In other words, they need to place themselves on the brink of death to reload. An interesting case to correlate this is Flowey, when describing his first experience with resetting. Not wanting to live in a world without love, he chose to kill himself. It wasn’t until he was “leaving this mortal coil” that he began to refuse to die, using his determination to reload the world. Note that ‘refusing to die’ created a paradox where the soul itself had already been allowed to die because Flowey chose to, but determination made this option impossible. This contradiction may be the source of why time is affected to resolve the issue - ‘reloading’ to a point that had similar levels of determination but with a not-destroyed soul.

~but i don’t know a damn about quantum mechanics or what sort of impact determination has on it. So... yeah, the paradox thing might be overboard~

Another reason possibility C could be the case is because Frisk is aware of what happens if a monster catches them. Toriel explains to them in the Ruins about why monsters want to attack them, so it is reasonable to assume they may think this when they die. Using their determination, they refuse to allow monsters to contain their soul and instead shatter it and reload.

Tangent in a Tangent(???) The six souls

I think it is important to highlight the six already contained souls when considering this argument. Recalling possibility A, obviously how these 6 souls interacted with the monsters lead them to believe that depleting their HP still allowed them to collect the soul.

Not much information is given into the specifics of how each ended up in containers, whether Asgore killed each of them or if some were defeated by other monsters before they could get to this point. It is also not known if all the humans could reset.

Like I discussed in a previous post, Toriel mentions having the feeling when meeting all of the humans, she has the feeling they are “already old friends” (implying it isn’t the first timeline they encountered her. Note this is only mentioned after Frisk themself have also encountered her twice) and Asgore nods sadly when you tell him he has already killed you multiple times (suggesting he may be familiar with this from at least one of the previous humans). These pieces of evidence lead me to the conclusions that Asgore personally killed at least one of the humans and that all six had some semblance of determination allowing them to reset.

Why they eventually became captured despite this (again, like i said in a previous post) may be linked (in my opinion) to either a loss of their desire (and therefore determination) to continue - survival seeming impossible or their determination to return home waning - or a deliberate choice to sacrifice themselves for the cause of monsters.

*bringing tangent of tangent back to topic of original tangent now

This idea attributes more understanding into the nature of how determination and reloading works. That the humans had choice in whether to use their determination or could eventually lose that power makes the idea of Frisk also deciding what happens to their soul after defeat sound sensible.

It is also possible that Frisk’s soul shattering could suggest Chara’s intervention. It is of course Chara’s memories of Asgore insisting they remain determined that echo within the reload screen after Frisk dies so there may some sort of link there. The relationship of control between Chara and Frisk however is wholly unspecified for most of the game however so this speculation cannot be conclusive.

~This one webcomic called ‘The Thought’ by TratserEnoyreve has a scene that shows this idea about choosing death and Chara being involved pretty well here : http://tratserenoyreve.deviantart.com/art/The-Thought-45-597910634 (it was cool and inspired some of my idea so i wanted to show it :D )~

* End of Tangent * (finally)

Persisting does not specify if the soul will continue to exist forever unless destroyed or if there is a small period to use the soul before it eventually dies like others.

Boss monsters won’t die of natural causes unless they have children, that is not to say they’re immortal though because we know they can be killed (Asgore, Asriel and Toriel are/can be killed). The rest of soul types, humans and normal monsters, are also mortal and can be damaged and killed.

Composition of the soul

Monster souls are said to be made of love, hope and compassion. Human souls, as far as monsters observe, do not require these to survive and so their composition is not known. Alphys does learn however that human souls possess determination, which she concludes is what allows human souls to persist after death.

~I want to point out that Alphys harvested determination from the existing human souls, so all human souls have determination - NOT JUST FRISK! Siggghhh the amount of people that assume Frisk is the only human to possess it...nm. I’ll save the rant for later.~

A common theory among fans is that the qualities of Determination, Bravery, Justice, Kindness, Patience, Integrity and Perseverance (associated with the colours red, orange, yellow, green, aqua, blue and purple respectively) are what can/do compose human souls. Some fan theories go so far as to suggest one particular one particular trait manifests itself in each person, as the six human souls appeared to demonstrate qualities associated to one of these each.

~Now, i don’t really like going into all that jazz, especially since it’s all based on just the colour of their souls and a snowball mini golf game of Ball. So that’s all i’m going to say about those.~

Unnecessary Theory Tangent Time again! (I’m basically done this section so feel free to skip)

There is one thing about what makes up souls that i tend to theorise about that i haven’t mentioned yet...

Think about Flowey. He possess two things that that gave him life: determination and Asriel’s essence. Now, I’m not using that term lightly. We all probably understand at this point that when Asriel turned to dust - the seeds of the flowers Chara wanted their dead body to be buried with (before they were attacked) dragged back across the barrier with him - his dust became spread across the flower seeds that then grew  like in normal monster funerary practices. And we know that the flowers eventually received injections of determination from Alphys awakening the essence of Asriel left there because of this dusting. See, I said the word again! Essence is mentioned specifically from the book in the Library, where we learn about monster funerals:

“When monsters get old and kick the bucket, they turn into dust. At funerals, we take that dust and spread it on that person’s favourite thing. Then their essence will live on in that thing”

Obviously at this point their soul (which is described as the culmination of their being) is destroyed. So what exactly is the difference between a monster’s essence and the culmination of their self?

I’ll be honest. I don’t know myself. In a lot of fan fiction and art I’ve encountered, the term ‘essence’ becomes lost in story and they suggest that Flowey has Asriel’s memories brought to life by determination. Some say that means Flowey is simply a husk of Asriel, like an imperfect replica missing a soul that replaces someone long dead. Others say that Asriel’s consciousness is that essence or memory, and Flowey is in fact truly the original Asriel. Either way, what really fascinates me are the ideas of memory or consciousness being that essence we’re talking about.

These properties sound like the kind of things that come from the soul rather than the body... so what could that mean?

Well, option number one: it’s not linked to the soul. Perhaps this essence is intertwined with their magic (i’m going to be talking about monster bodies a little later), which means it would have to go somewhere when the body turns to dust. Voilà, you have the essence existing inside the favourite thing. I wonder if there needs to be some emotional connection to the object for the essence to be able to make a new connection, otherwise the essence would simply exist in the location they became dust rather than what their loved ones intended.

Option number 2: it is a part of the soul, possibly the shattered pieces or some part of it that becomes dust when it’s destroyed. This then has a similar effect as option 1.

Option number 3: perhaps a monster’s ‘essence’ is neither of these things. What if monster essence is their form of an intangible afterlife. Consider that Chara, like Flowey, was awakened when exposed to a large stimuli of determination. Unlike Flowey, we have no idea how Chara functions. Most consider them to be a lingering memory that now happens to reside in Frisk. Perhaps determination’s residual effects, when powerful enough, draw other beings back from the dead if they can find a host. But this is unlikely.

Relationship with body

A soul establishes an inseparable relationship with a body. This doesn’t mean that the soul must be physically attached, but a body cannot be sentient or function without connection to at least some of the elements of a soul.

Monster bodies

For monsters, their bodies are composed of magic manipulated by the soul. Though this is a broad statement. Ghosts, for example, are fundamentally under this same definition as much as skeletons however there are obvious differences in how this magic manifests.

The physical forms taken by monsters are surprisingly diverse. To name a few: beings made entirely of fire that they can choose not to let burn things, bones composed of and held together by magic that can twist their skulls shape to make expressions, incorporeal expressions of non-tangible magic, inanimate objects possessed by magic to complete corporeal beings... all mixed in with the more normal forms of anatomy that we’d place somewhere between animal and humanoid. All these forms however are made purely of magic sourced directly from their soul.

Because a monster’s body is directly connected their soul in this way, attacks to a monster damage not their form but their soul - which is why attacks affect simply the statistic of HP rather than their physical body. 

An exception to this rule is Mettaton, whose body shows sign of physical damage with the loss of limbs when you attack their soul. Though, i feel i should point out that Mettaton is made of both “metal and magic” (as included in the quiz) so parts of him are non-magic, purely physical.

Monsters food is designed to be converted to energy instantaneously on consumption, implying most monsters don’t have a need for digestive systems. Though a monster in Grillby’s does say he intends to try human food on the surface so it is likely that some forms are still capable of it.

Because of this direct connection between the soul and magic necessary for control of a body, all monsters can use some form of magic. It also makes their bodies more attuned to the disposition of the soul - which lets their battle statistics become dependent on their emotional state towards a fight. “If a monster doesn’t want to fight, it’s defenses will weaken. And the crueller the intentions of our enemies, the more their attacks will hurt us.” according to a book from the library.

Regardless of the form of a monster, with their body’s destruction the form shatters apart into s similar dust. There are notable instances from main characters in the game who are able to remain intact after losing their HP to deliver final words before eventually shattering, showing actual injuries such as cuts and losing their head. However most monsters simply just go paralysed for a second, shock on their face, and then shatter.

Human bodies

Unlike monsters, human bodies are composed mostly of water. I assume we all know what a human body is, it represents the actual things we have in real life. Human bodies have advantages over monsters because they are composed of physical magic rather than magic. It makes them stronger than monsters and lets their fighting skill be independent from their emotional state. But it does mean that humans can’t express themselves with magic in the way that monsters can. 

This isn’t to say that humans may not have been able to use magic, as seven magicians on the side of the humans sealed the monsters underground. But we don’t see any evidence of humans being capable of magic within the game to ground any arguments on. A book in the library states explicitly though that “the will never know the joy of expressing themselves through magic” so obviously there’s some significant inability on human’s part to ‘express themselves’ with it.

When a monster attacks a human, their magic is targeting the soul, “the very culmination of [their] being”, rather than simply their body. This explains how HP can be lowered as simply a stat without affecting Frisk’s actual physical condition in the game (like breaking their legs or leaving bruises etc.) and how Frisk is able to survive the conditions from attacks that would normally kill a human (bombs, intense heat etc.)

~^ I mentioned this part in my tangent... but who the hell reads tangents??~

Obtaining additional souls

Souls that can persist are able to be absorbed by other beings. Souls of a similar nature cannot be harnessed by each other (monsters can’t possess monster souls and humans can’t posses human souls). Note that Flowey, being a soulless creature that classifies as neither category, was able to collect and use both types in his process to becoming the Ultimate God of Hyperdeath. 

When a creature in possession of more than one soul dies, all souls existing connected to them die as well... though considering the only example of this is Chara, who maintains some sort of existence considering they’re awoken by Frisk (at the very least in genocide routes, debatably in all of them), I personally think the term ‘die’ may not be totally correct...

~and no, i’m not going to start discussing the tens of different interpretations for Chara’s role. So i’ll just stay as vague as that.~

Containing more souls makes the being owning them more powerful, manifesting a physical change in appearance and a dramatic increase in strength and attack abilities. The strength of the souls becomes cumulative, with additional souls adding their original strength to the new total. 

The combined soul strength of all the monsters in the Underground is equivalent to one human soul.

~(though not including Napstablook for some reason...) As this doesn’t extend to Mettaton or mad dummy, it may have something to with his non-tangible nature~

Examples within the game:

- A human possessing an additional monster soul or a monster possessing a human soul becomes powerful enough to pass through the barrier capable of resisting the strength of any monster or human without this.

- Flowey possessing six human souls is in possession of enough determination to override Frisk’s ability (this is an indication of the irregular amount of determination within Frisk considering this much is necessary). It also gives him the power to entirely destroy Frisk’s save file.

- The power of seven human souls in one being is considered to make the being a god. This power is also the standard needed to break the barrier. 

- Asriel, in his true Ultimate God of Hyperdeath form, is composed of six human souls and all the monster souls of the Underground that equates to the strength of 7 human souls. With this power he is able to regenerate a monster form for himself again and shatter the barrier. 

Comparing the strength of this form to when he had six souls, we receive an idea of how significantly the increase of a single human soul’s worth of power can raise attack.

Determination

~A fair deal of determination stuff feels like it should really be classified as it’s own field of lore pseudoscience. So i’m not going to go into detail. Let’s just get the basics out here though...~

As previously mentioned, human souls naturally possess an entity known simply as ‘determination’. Alphys describes determination in her research to be “the will to keep living... the resolve to change fate.” 

Determination is considered in multiple contexts to mean different things. However, in discussing the element as it relates to the soul, it is what lets Frisk (and quite possibly the other six souls at some point) reload after dying and reset the timeline if they wish to do so. 

Here’s an overview of how i understand determination to work:

in a situation or environment that fills Frisk with the emotions and convictions of determination, this determination manifests itself as a physical thing called a save point

Accessing the save point and making use of that power, flavour text for the player provides a description of what filled Frisk with determination and they recover their HP. (determination has been shown to be able to recover HP. Consider dreams in the Asriel fight “through your DETERMINATION, the dream became true. HP maxed out.”)

Using the determination they access at this save point, they can SAVE their progress - a manifestation to their determination to continue on the path they are on (as it saves over any previous files)

They then continue on their way.

When they lose all their HP, their soul shatters and they hear Chara’s memory of Asgore speaking encouragement over their sick bed when they were dying. He specifically tells them they can’t give up, that this is all just a bad dream, and that they should stay determined. This is COMPLETELY personal interpretation but i like to think this is somehow Chara trying to communicate to Frisk through sharing memories to press on.

This reminds them of their determination and Frisk is given the option to continue.

By selecting to continue, their determination to survive brings them back to their last source of determined commitment to their progress (i.e. their save point). This brings everything about them, from their physical to soul-related properties, back to the state they were in when they SAVEd.

~I’m not going to go into quitting. Because that’s a topic for another day.~

Alphys also suggests it is the component of human souls that allows human souls to persist after death, whether this is true or not though is never confirmed.

~if it is it raises questions about how boss monsters persist... do they maybe have determination? Or perhaps Alphys was simply mistaken, assuming it was used for persisting when it actually allowed reloading instead~

---

Annd that’s everything. That i can think of. There’s probably more. If there is i’ll probably edit the original post. But that’s what i understand about souls haha. 

And now that this is done i can go back to harmless lyric posts and continue writing my fanfiction because it sorta fell on hold i got so many theory concepts i wanted to back up while doing this lol. 

[nochocolate]

sans’ (lack of) motivation: his refusal to stop the human

(undertale spoilers)

in most routes, sans will quietly endure whatever suffering is forced upon him. he can live through the callous murder of his brother, the slaughtering of his friends and peers, and yet he’ll do nothing to frisk but berate them. instead of disposing the human the instant they begin harming others, sans watches and waits, appearing near the end of frisk’s journey only to launch his emotional appeals. he attempts to guilt trip frisk, and by extension, the player, rather than get his own hands dirty.

there is only one exception: the genocide route. only when the situation has become the most dire does sans spring into action to do what’s right. what makes the genocide route so different from an especially violent neutral route? why does sans only wait until the genocide route to fight? continue reading for the reasons.

the promise

sans’ biggest reason for sparing frisk can be attributed to a promise he made some time before meeting them. at the mtt hotel, sans tells the story of how he befriended toriel through the door of the ruins. the two bonded over their mutual love of knock-knock jokes.

one day, after sans noticed that toriel “wasn’t laughing very much,” he asked her “what was up.”

toriel responded by asking sans to make a promise -- a promise to protect any human who might exit the ruins.

sans admits that, while he’s not fond of making promises, he couldn’t say “no” to toriel.

had toriel not urged sans to make the promise, sans confesses that he would have killed frisk right away. frisk only has the opportunity to explore the underground because sans decided to show them mercy.

in fact, sans does his best to uphold this promise, even if frisk kills papyrus, the person who means more than anything to sans. no matter what lives the human destroys, sans remains steadfast in his pledge to toriel. he’s tasked to “watch over” and “protect” frisk, and he holds true to his promise even in the event of papyrus’ death.

in any route where papyrus is killed, including the genocide route, the flavour text will note “a hooded figure” in place of sans selling tickets made of toilet paper during shyren’s battle. although sans ceases to appear at his sentry stations throughout the underground after papyrus is killed, it seems he’s still keeping his promise by watching over frisk.

it can be assumed, therefore, that sans takes his promises very seriously. this seems to be his biggest reason for not taking action against frisk in the neutral routes. but it cannot be his only reason for refusing to do anything about frisk. this promise is mentioned again just before sans is fought in the genocide route.

sans claims that, ordinarily, he “never make[s] promises,” likely because he knows there are some circumstances that might force him to break them.

the feeling of futility

while the promise likely provides sans with the motivation to spare frisk, that probably isn’t his only reason for doing so. sans recognises frisk as someone who possesses the ability to time travel.

if papyrus has been killed, sans will hint that he is aware of frisk’s “special power.”

although sans drops many hints indicating that he knows more than he lets on, it is only during the pacifist-neutral route that he openly shares his suspicions with frisk.

in this instance, sans plainly confesses to knowing that frisk can go back in time.

SANS: our reports showed a massive anomaly in the timespace continuum. timelines jumping left and right, stopping and starting... until suddenly, everything ends.

during his genocide battle, he admits that he’s even been studying strange things happening to the timeline. he goes on to blame the human for it all, although it’s likely that flowey was the true subject of much of his research.

SANS: you can't understand how this feels. knowing that one day, without any warning... it's all going to be reset. look. i gave up trying to go back a long time ago. and getting to the surface doesn't really appeal anymore, either. cause even if we do... we'll just end up right back here, without any memory of it, right? to be blunt... it makes it kind of hard to give it my all. ...or is that just a poor excuse for being lazy...? hell if i know.

most significantly, his proceeding speech explains exactly why sans chooses to do nothing to stop the human in neutral routes: he believes it will be pointless. he believes that everything he does is futile, because the human will simply go back and change things to their liking.

SANS: i always thought the anomaly was doing this cause they were unhappy. and when they got what they wanted, they would stop all this. and maybe all they needed was... i dunno. some good food, some bad laughs, some nice friends.

not only that, but it seems sans believes that he might see a happy ending if only he can make “the anomaly” happy. in this case, “the anomaly” means frisk/chara/the player. he holds out, hoping that they’ll reset and bring all his friends back to life.

sans does nothing to frisk in neutral routes because he’s counting on them to reset. it’s very likely that he’s also trying to avoid angering “the anomaly” unnecessarily.

steering the human in the right direction

although sans may avoid direct conflict with frisk in the neutral routes, he will still attempt to guide frisk to do the right thing. in the last corridor, sans will judge frisk for their actions. the very first time they visit him, he will explain LOVE and EXP, which could be enough to help frisk understand what the consequences of hurting others are. 

after the explanation, he prompts frisk to look inside themself to consider what they had done. it’s a rather gentle judgment. however, should frisk come back to sans with EXP again, they will be judged based on the amount of LOVE they gained. the judgments vary from encouragement to do better... 

... to full on shaming frisk for what they have done.

more prominent is the judgment given when papyrus is killed and sans asks frisk if it’s their responsibility “to do the right thing.”

these judgments vary, but they are done in a way to instill guilt in frisk or to encourage them to do better.

the one exception

the only time that sans will break his promise is near the end of the genocide route, when chara gains control and over one hundred monsters have already been slaughtered. the reason why he only intervenes in this route is because he is aware that “everything ends.” 

in his battle dialogue, sans mentions “our reports,” which may be how he knows “what comes next.” it’s because of this knowledge that he “can’t afford to not care anymore.”

SANS: to be blunt… it makes it kind of hard to give it my all. …or is that just a poor excuse for being lazy…? hell if i know. all i know is… seeing what comes next… i can’t afford not to care anymore.

the line “seeing what comes next” implies that something in the report has him worried enough to step in and stop the player. it almost seems as if it is something he witnessed himself, but sans does not retain memories in between reloads or resets. it would make more sense that his reports indicate that the end of the world is possible in this route.

SANS: so, uh. i’ve decided… it’s not gonna BE your turn. ever. i’m just gonna keep having MY turn until you give up. even if it means we have to stand here until the end of time. capiche? you’ll get bored here. if you haven’t gotten bored already, i mean. and then, you’ll finally quit.

while the fight is meant to stop the human, if they manage to get to the end of the fight, sans will not end his turn as a last-ditch attempt to stop the anomaly -- “even if it means we have to stand here until the end of time.” his hope is that the anomaly will bore and “finally quit.” if the human quits, they can choose to reset the game and play another route. anything that will keep the world from ending permanently.

conclusion

ultimately, sans knows it is futile to stop the human from killing in the neutral route. however, the knowledge he has about a permanent end to his world motivates him to stop the human in the genocide route -- in a last ditched effort to save the ones he loves.

[narcisskanotfrisk]

BeyondFell First part

She had fallen, everything was dark ... Her head was spinning and her body was hurting. She may have passed the age of eighteen, but this place scared her. The atmosphere seemed really heavy to her. Maybe it was because the place did not seem familiar? No. This place ... I've seen it before, this is the place where I died. I'm just a wandering soul. And yet I see her, she fell like I did a few years ago. So she slowly gets up from the place where my corpse was buried. I decided to follow her on her adventure. The problem was not there. She then looked up and she realized that the light from the surface was lighting a small bed of golden flowers. Then she looked around. The place seemed to be in ruins. You could still see broken columns surrounded by ivy. Despite this bad atmosphere, the place was still pretty ... Or even ... Magnificent? On closer inspection, the golden flowers were the only ones lit by the light of twilight, contrasting perfectly with the plants and the columns in the shade. Wait ... Twilight? How long had she spent here ?! The young girl then heard her belly scream starvation and immediately noticed that her purple and blue T-shirt was found with holes. Haa ... She assumed he would be done after a while. She straightened up at last, replacing her short brown hair behind her ear, before heading towards what it seemed was a passage at the end of a corridor which gave her the impression of a sudden appearance. She seemed to be having trouble standing on her legs and despite her age, she looked like a ten year old child, both in size and appearance. After a long moment of hesitation, she glanced around the room and saw a plant, similar to the golden flowers in the previous room, but larger and the petals in poor condition. The flower also has two black petals in equally bad condition. The girl stepped forward and cracked a twig. The flower then suddenly turned around with a frightening face. " Who is here ? they exclaimed in a terrifying voice. The plant stared into the eyes for long seconds before realizing. "A hu ... A human ?! they suddenly sputtered in a terrified air. They began to tremble and the entourage of the two beings changed abruptly, revealing before the human four buttons where it was written "Fight", "Act", "Item" and finally, "Mercy". The flower was trapped in a white rectangle as if it were trapped in a prison without bars but from which it could not escape. "By ... Please! Don't ... don't kill me ... " they begged. Frisk did not know what to do with this flower, it frightened her but also inspired her pity. Sensing that the situation was getting worse, she decided to speak. "Don't worry, I don't want to hurt you" They looked at Frisk in amazement. Why was she sparing him? Didn't she know? "Wait a minute ... Are you new in the area?" " "Yes that's it, where are we? " "Pfff ... another one who is going to die unnecessarily ..." breathed the flower almost inaudibly. "What did you say? " "Ah, nothing nothing! So let's start with the presentations, I'm Flowey the flower ” "Pleased to meet you, my name is Frisk," she replied with a small smile. "Very well Frisk, we have little time before she discovers us ..." Flowey looked around to see if no one was around. He had to be careful, ‘she’ couldn't find them, or they might die here without accomplishing anything. "Flowey?" That name meant something to her ... But she didn't remember what. Why didn't she remember him? It annoyed her, she felt it was something important. " Who is that ? Asked Frisk. "It is not important at the moment, I must first explain to you how things are going down here. Do you see this heart? It represents the accumulation of your existence, your reason for being and to simplify your soul. " "Hmm ~" "Be careful here because most of the monsters here will want your death, it's killed or be killed" At his words, Frisk again felt the heavy atmosphere of this new place invade her. She was no longer without her companion house, but indeed in unknown territory. She began to shiver and find it difficult to stand. His legs refused to move paralyzed by the terror that Frisk felt. Flowey, who was looking at her, realized that he had said too much at once. "Howdy, don't be afraid I will help you to cross the ruins" "R-really? She replied spontaneously, gradually regaining control of her body, her eyes lighting up in the direction of Flowey. "Wow! Calm down let's see ... You have a lot to learn. Here, grab that stick and follow me " Flowey raised one of his roots in front of Frisk, there was a stick so light that it could well have been a twig. Frisk watched Flowey disappear into the ground before surfacing a little further in front of an arch. Frisk then crossed the hall following Flowey who had no choice but to repeat the maneuver to move. In this hall on the ground strewn with flower petals, Frisk saw something strange. This something shone with a soft and soothing light. It was shaped like stars drawn in children's books. Frisk approached this thing as Flowey surfaced at the top of the steps. When Frisk touched the object, a window appeared in front of her with the following words written ‘‘ Save completed ’’. Frisk wondered what it could be like when a voice called to him. Does this piece of star save the… timeline? With this we can reset the game at any time. She remembered it as if it were yesterday. "Hey Frisk, what are you doing downstairs? Flowey called her. "Nothing, nothing ~" She hurried to join Flowey at the top of the stairs as the window disappeared. She entered a new room where a door was closed in front of her. Flowey looked at her for a moment before launching. “Here we are in the Ruins, a place full of traps and mechanisms. Look I'll show you for this one " Frisk noticed that there were six tiles on the floor spread over three rows and two columns. Flowey operated the top two and the bottom two. He then activated the lever against the wall and the door opened. They walked through the door, Frisk noticed that Flowey didn't look serene. He constantly scrutinized every possible corner. It worried her but she didn't dare ask him what he was looking at. They had just entered a large room, levers were fixed to the wall. Two rivers dodging by two bridges were also present. "Here pushes the first three levers, BUT THE FIRST THREE," yelled Flowey at Frisk. She didn’t dare to answer, she didn’t know why Flowey’s nervousness was due. She obeyed his orders, and the spikes that prevented them from passing disappeared. Flowey motioned for Frisk to go into the next room. There, Frisk noticed that there was a mannequin in the room. Flowey appeared next to the mannequin. "I'm going to teach you how to fight, here in the Underground is killing or being killed so it's better that you are ready to defend yourself" "Hmm ~". Frisk listened carefully. "You see, get closer to this mannequin" Frisk did what Flowey asked him to do. The white rectangle surrounded the simple mannequin. The four texts appeared again, she turned to Flowey awaiting more precise instructions. "Do you see the four buttons that appeared in front of you?" Choose the "Fight" button and attack the dummy " She looked at the buttons in front of her. Frisk had never been violent and she refused to be. She examined the other buttons, "Act" which acted on the opponent; "Item" to use an object in combat and finally "Mercy" which allowed him to avoid confrontation. So she pressed "Mercy" and the fight ended. Flowey was staring at her in amazement. Chara made a facepalm before sighing. She would never survive in this world and she would die repeatedly. "I know it's nice to be nice, but there you go ...". Flowey laughed yellow as he said his words. "But there is no need to fight look" "Don't complain if you get killed!" " Suddenly, a creature called Froggit emerged and attacked Frisk, causing the white rectangle to reappear in front of her. She dodged with difficulty the attacks of this creature but did not get hit. She looked at the options there and decided to press "Act", she then complimented the Froggit on her beauty. The Froggit began to blush even though he seemed to not have understood what Frisk was telling him. He didn't attack and Frisk spared him the next lap before stroking his forehead. Flowey and Chara looked upset at Frisk. How did she do it? Frisk looked at Flowey as the Froggit walked away. " You see ? She said to Flowey with a big smile. "You were just lucky, that's all," muttered Flowey. "Come on, we still have a way to go" They advanced a little more before finding themselves before a path provided with sharp points. Water surrounded this passage, the path looked impassable. "Flowey, how are we going to get through?" " "Ask yourself, how are YOU going to get through," he said as he reappeared on the other side. "Eh! You are not going to leave me here " Frisk looked at Flowey intently, as he activated a lever in the corner of the room, which deactivated the spikes, allowing Frisk to cross the expanse of water. Once Frisk on the other side Flowey sighed. "I told you I would help you get out of here, what good would it have been to leave you here?" " "T-thank you," said Frisk with a smile. "Don't thank me and let's hurry before she finds us. " " By the way ! Who is she ? " "She is the guardian of the ruins, the most horrible of all the monsters gathered in this area" When he said that, Flowey felt a shadow behind him. He turned around before he saw the guard. He let out an almost inaudible "oh no" as the guard watched the human closely. "Oh my child! It's been a long time since a human had fallen here! She said, completely ignoring the presence of Flowey. "Uh ... h-he ... llo ..." replied Frisk hesitantly. "Let's see don't be afraid! I won't hurt you. How would you like to come to my house? I don't live very far from here. " Frisk, hesitant because of Flowey's revelations, took a step back in spite of herself, which did not please the guardian. "How dare you distrust me!" When I so kindly offered to come to my house !? " She attacked Frisk with magic fire. Before she understood what was going on, her soul exploded. She had died in the face of this unknown enemy. Chara who was watching the scene couldn't help but drop a "FIRST BLOOD" when Frisk died before her eyes. Frisk was now in an extremely dark place, in front of her was a screen. She could read there information about where she had found the star. She wondered what it was, then saw a button like those used in combat. "Continue" was written inside. She decided to press it to see what was going to happen.

[7thdeterminedkid-blog]

((Indeed, it would be assumed the monster did it all. Except until after Frisk “theorized” it just a few hours ago.

Now, the human will probably say that the good that monster did was the human, and the bad, if there was one, was the monster. …Just as they said Chara was the one who resisted to kill everybody, just because Chara was the one who died. …Even though we don’t even know that the human SOUL was red. (Omega Flowey proves that if your soul isn’t red, you HAVE no control over your combined body. But, someone with a red SOUL could SAVE the others, and allow them to fight back-To regain the control that they had lost to the monster.)

Anyways, what I was getting at, was that perhaps the monsters did not have knolwedge of the ability to absorb a human SOUL-It can’t be done with monsters, and such an absorption had NEVER HAPPENED, after all. Similar to how the Amalgamtes happened because Alphys had no idea determination was this lethal to the monsters.

Perhaps the one who absorbed the human SOUL didn’t know THAT’S what they were doing. They didn’t understand WHY they needed to stay away from the human. “Respect”? What KIND of respect? It may have been their friend, and thought the human would like their company! And so, the monster got too close to a certain human SOUL. As a result, the soul.. got absorbed. It wouldn’t be until AFTER the fact that they’d come with terms with what they did. That would also explain why they never attacked the other humans-They just never wanted to.

There’s also, of course, the possibility that the human ambassador would likely theorize, “the human fought back just like with Asriel. That must be why he never attacked, and we were able to stop the monster. After all, the monster took the human’s SOUL!! They HAD to have been trying to kill us humans!!”

But remember-That’s only possible with RED-souled humans, as proven by Omega Flowey. So.. There’s only a 1 in 7 chance that it could even happen. (Unless someone SAVED that human first, ALSO like Omega Flowey.) Plus, that raises the question:How did the monsters know such SOUL absorption is possible, when it never happened before?

I’m sure the human would probably reply that Helvetica or a previous scientist conducted an experiment or something along those lines. I don’t know how believeable that hypothesis is, though. Only reason I can think of for how the monsters can know SOUL absoption is possible without actually doing it… Like depicted in Waterfall.. :3)) (( I would have thought the way humans found out was because of the monster that first absorbed the human to turn into the terrifying monster as depicted in Waterfall. Cause it would be that shocking or some plot hole that no monster was able to absorb a human soul for other battles prior to it, civil wise or not. Or if there were no wars up until the monster vs humans happened. Which then leads to their banishment and other wars for the human’s history to happen all around. Undyne was able to stay in her monster form a little longer because of Determination. But her body eventually melted and had no other monsters to fuse with to be kept in another form like the Amalgamates, which lead to her death in Neutral/Genocide. Maybe it’s because if a monster was strong enough, they are able to handle it. But pushing it will lead to melt. The Amalgamates were weaker kind of monsters, not like Undyne or Boss Monsters like Asgore + Toriel. It was hard for them to control it. Before the Amalgamates, the monsters were said to have ‘fallen down’, though it’s not dusted. So they were able to keep their monster form despite the comatose state. Determination was able to wake them up before the merge. Flowey’s case is because Asriel had already been dusted onto a flower that had a chance to get the DTM. But because his monster soul was gone, he became SOULless with determination. This Determination lead him to learn about the SAVE and RESET before Frisk took it away. Maybe moreso since he had absorbed Chara’s SOUL, this extra Determination was also how he got the abilities. So monsters may have Determination, but have to be strong monsters to handle it without pushing themselves or already losing their SOUL at the cost of not feeling anything. Sorry if I’m still not getting anything right. I’m a moron like that.  ))