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hiorintruther · 7 months ago

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An Updated ‘Reasons Why I Ship Hiorin’ — Because It’s Been Ages Since I Made The First One And I’ve Had More Thoughts (and we got more moments!)

Aka: can you tell this ship makes me mentally unwell?

Hi again! It’s been a while. I did make one of these long posts a while back outlining why I choose to ship hiorin even though they’ve barely interacted and on the surface don’t look like they’d make sense at all. Since then, hiorin has gained quite a few shippers in the fandom and I keep thinking about the ship, especially with the Bastard Munchen vs PXG game FINALLY giving us some new crumbs. Unsurprisingly, ever since making the first post I’ve also had a lot more ideas about the dynamic, its potential, some more connections between them that I never touched on before, etc… and rather than editing the other post I thought it would be easier to just make a new one.

Some stuff I go over here might be familiar from the first post. I want this to be a kind of hub for any and all of my hiorin interpretations, analysis, trivia, headcanons, ‘theories’ (which I don’t think will be canon but the narrative potential for them is through the roof) and anything else I think is relevant to the ship. Feel free to jump around and read whatever is most interesting for you. Hiorin is a ship that, for me, is built on mountains of untapped potential. I just want to bring that potential to light all in one place.

Note: for this post I’ll only use information that has been written by Kaneshiro, drawn by Nomura or Sanomiya, or has otherwise been green-lit by Kaneshiro as canon. Merch collabs, voice actor QnAs, the PWC game etc… for me do not count as canon and I won’t use them. Also, the 10-image limit is biting my ass so my formatting for certain bits might be a bit all over the place. Apologies.

So without further ado. Let’s start! Enjoy the yap sesh!

Part 1 — The Manga Canon

Hiorin get their (very sparse and brief) interactions mostly from the Third Selection Arc (chapters 87-108) and the U20 arc (chapters 109-151). We’re also recently getting some new moments in the BM vs PXG match (chapters 250-present).

First off: the tryouts. It’s implied here that Hiori and Rin have never met, as Hiori notices Isagi’s response to Rin and asks if Isagi knows who Rin is. Rin also doesn’t acknowledge Hiori in any way here, so we can presume they’re strangers (although some shippers like to headcanon that they met during the first selection).

That being said during the match, after Isagi has been thoroughly shut down by Karasu, Rin turns his attention to Hiori as a teammate to help him get the ball up the field. Rin has never seen Hiori play before (as far as we know). They’ve never even talked. They’re barely getting familiar with each other’s play styles. And yet, they immediately link up to form a clean back and forth that optimises Rin’s play style. In fact, this duo helps Rin score 1 goal, and it would have helped Rin score 2 had Shidou not rudely interrupted the second.

It’s so deadly that Otoya has to intervene specifically to break them up, so that they can no longer continue their one-two passes up the field and threaten to go for another goal. (Also notice in this page below how as soon as the kickoff happens, Hiori is already running into position in the background. He understands what Rin wants to do).

Not only did Hiori and Rin naturally form a link-up, but Hiori was also fully capable of keeping up with Rin, something Nanase admitted he struggled with during this match and even Isagi was struggling with as well, since later on we see Isagi fail to intercept one of Hiori’s passes due to not being able to reach it in time (which presumably Rin would have been able to were he in Isagi’s position). So, from what we see of Hiori and Rin in this match, they’re on a similar wavelength in terms of skills, field vision and gameplay, and are naturally able to link up even as strangers. I’ll note here that neither of them were playing at full power — Hiori was playing on 0 motivation, and Rin was still utilising his Puppeteer play style instead of his Destroyer. More on this later in the ‘Headcanons’ section.

After the Tryouts, we next see them interact in the U20 match. We start with a brief callback to their tryouts link up in chapter 132, where Rin passes to Hiori. Hiori is acting as a relay between Isagi and Rin, which in my opinion would be a good way to utilise him after the NEL. Whether or not that’s how Kaneshiro chooses to use him in the future is anyone’s guess though.

The next big moment comes in chapter 140, after Shidou has kicked Rin in the face and the game has briefly paused. I think this is by far the most ‘iconic’ hiorin moment. While Isagi is analysing the previous play and Karasu is arguing with the ref, Hiori is the only one who actually checks on Rin. Even Bachira and Reo were right next to Rin and neither of them go to him. Hiori was further down the field but he moved to help Rin first. Not only is he gentle with and worried for Rin, but by some miracle Rin actually accepts his help! It feels almost out of character, given how angry Rin is for the rest of the match, but for this very brief moment he lets Hiori help him up and reassures him that he’s ‘fine’ (yeah sure buddy…).

For many this is the main ‘ooooooh’ moment with hiorin. But what if I told you it actually happens a second time this match? After Aiku goes rogue in chapter 142 and tries to score a goal, Rin ends up slide-tackling him to prevent it. And once again, if you look in the background of the panels following the interception in chapter 143, who is it helping Rin stand? It’s Hiori. And this time they actually hold hands!

The final hiorin moment in the U20 match comes soon after this in chapter 144, when Rin is about to enter his Destroyer mode. When Rin enters Destroyer mode, Hiori is in possession of the ball and so Rin steals it from him in a completely unpredictable move that had everyone stunned.

The U20 match moments, for many of us hiorin shippers, felt like the last time we’d ever see them properly interact. I at least had zero hopes for PXG. But oh boy was I wrong! Kaneshiro might not realise the dynamic he’s setting up with this duo but I’m gonna milk every interaction for what they’re worth! And so with that, I’ll bring you to the BM vs PXG match (note: currently still ongoing, so I’ll update this section as we get more moments). Since the U20 match, we’ve had some changes. The biggest one is Hiori’s personality. After going through his arc in Ubers, Hiori has become more outspoken and confident, playing into his ‘Ultra-Sadist’ style and being more than happy to speak his mind. He’s more argumentative and can whip up a good piece of trash talk (my gamer boy fr!). We see this on full display in chapter 251 when he completely shuts down Rin’s goal opportunity because Rin was too focussed on Isagi to see the bigger picture of the match. Hiori turns around, points at Rin, and tells him “if ya want a goal… come at me with an unpredictable script!”

Notice here how he isn’t simply putting Rin down for not being able to score. Hiori may be taunting Rin, perhaps getting over-confident, but he does still technically give Rin helpful advice. In a previous panel he explains how he was able to read Rin because Rin was too focussed on Isagi, and in combination with Hiori’s ‘unpredictable script’ line it forms some rather blunt and rude but nevertheless useful advice. Hiori is telling Rin exactly how to get past him and what Rin needs to do to improve. Notice the focus on unpredictability. I personally think this is a line foreshadowing Rin’s Destroyer mode, even if Hiori himself is unaware of it. Even if it’s not foreshadowing, Hiori’s advice is reasonable and Rin should listen to it.

The next moment we have of them together is from chapter 259, where Hiori is aided by Raichi to block Rin in a 2-person press, causing Rin to lose the ball. From a purely indulgent, shipping perspective, notice how Hiori’s and Rin’s legs are touching, their hands are on each other’s chests and they’re looking at each other. Raichi is just there lol.

Next we have chapter 270, where Rin has started to awaken his Destroyer and is barrelling his way through BM’s various players. Hiori is one of the players Rin gets past with ease. Rin gets past him with a rainbow flick, to which Hiori acknowledges Rin awakening by saying ‘he is good’. Note here that he is the only player on BM’s side to get actual dialogue in response to Rin overpowering them.

And as of right now, the latest interaction comes from chapter 273. Rin has entered Destroyer mode and has completely overwhelmed Hiori. Isagi actually says in this chapter that Rin has become someone he can’t analyse, a completely unreadable beast of a player. I think this means the ‘unpredictable script’ Hiori spoke of truly is the Destroyer, and Rin has finally been able to get past Hiori with it.

This may be it for their canon interactions, however it’s far from all the canon information we have about them that’s interesting for the dynamic. A big part of the hiorin ship is about looking at their individual information and drawing together similarities and/or parallels. While on the surface they seem very different, almost opposites, digging a little deeper reveals a lot of small coincidences about them that build up to make you realise that they’re a lot more similar than you might initially think.

Part 2 — Where Hiori and Rin Align

Analytical players. Both of them are capable of deeply analytical play styles that utilises field vision and high levels of technical skills. This way of playing doesn’t rely on brute strength or pure intimidation to get through the opponents’ defence, rather analysis, playing with and overcoming their opponents with strategy and out-playing their opponents with sheer levels of skill. This similarity is likely what led to them to be able to so easily link up when they first met. Rin is however also capable of being the Destroyer, which leads me to my second point below.

Sadism. Both are known sadists. Rin’s Destroyer mode is particularly sadistic, aiming to destroy in every way to the point where he will give up goal opportunities to destroy even more. In general, he revels in being at the top, destroying others under him. He’s open with his insults and destroys chaotically, looking for breaks in his opponents’ defence and completely tearing them down until there’s no hope of his opponents winning. Meanwhile Hiori is a self-proclaimed “ultra-sadist”. After his arc, he enjoys watching his opponents scramble to try and keep up with him only to be destroyed by his top-tier plays, especially in a ‘best play’ scenario with his chosen striker of the moment. He’s also not loyal to any one striker and will leave them behind if they’re not playing up to his standards or goal vision. Hiori’s sadism also manifests as him teasing his friends, as we see in chapter 241 when he jokingly teases Isagi for getting shipped with Kaiser by BLTV fans.

Sae connections. Rin’s connections to Sae are obvious, since they’re brothers and Sae is the cornerstone of Rin’s character arc. Hiori also has connections to Sae though. He’s been compared to Sae twice in-universe, once by Sendou in chapter 129 who said his passes had the same level of skill as Sae’s, and once by Yukimiya in chapter 241 who thinks Hiori’s ultra-sadist mindset is similar to Sae’s. In the Egoist Bible 2, Hiori states that he admires Sae as a player when answering the question ‘who has the best crossing skills’.

Replacements. In Rin’s light novel, he tells Sae that once Sae is gone, he’ll ��find a replacement”. In chapter 239, Hiori tells Isagi that he won’t just be loyal to Isagi and will happily replace him with another striker should they be in a better position for Hiori’s vision.

They’re both gamers. Obviously we know Hiori is one. That’s been a big part of his character ever since we first met him. In his Egoist Bible profile, he states that he plays many genres, from JRPGs to rhythm games. However, Rin also plays video games, specifically horror games. We get this info from both the Egoist Bible and his prequel light novel, where it explains that he plays horror games to de-stress at night: (chapter 2) “… even games, should be chilling and scary. Playing horror games alone at night is quite thrilling”.

Horror, gore and zombies. As well as playing horror games to de-stress, it’s explained in the Egoist Bible and Rin’s light novel that he watches horror movies for the same reason: (chapter 2) “When he’s done, he watches a horror movie and then goes to bed. This is his daily routine. For some reason, since Sae has been gone, he only watches horror movies. Movies, videos …”. The light novel slightly expands on this to specify that he enjoys splatter films, as well as showing an illustration of him watching rather a gory zombie movie: (chapter 4) “Lately, he's been into splatter films. The one where a killer comes out with an electric saw and a big-ass ax, then blood splatters all over the place. The one where a killer chases you no matter how hard you try to escape, and if you get caught, you end up being dismembered. His heart is pounding, but he’s not the type to show on his face, so Rin watching the slaughter scene without any expression on his face is much more horrifying”. Likewise, Hiori is shown in chapter 206 playing a zombie shooter in which he imagines the zombies becoming his parents and he violently kills them. We see his inner monologue of this in his prequel light novel, showing the depths of how much he wants them to suffer: (chapter 6) “Before he knew it, in his imagination, his parents became zombies. His father and mother are coming towards him, laughing. He shoots without hesitation. Bang! Headshot. The bullet that entered the father's jaw blew off the back of his head. Bang! Bang! His mother's eyeballs pop out and there's a hole in her chest. He aims for vital spots with rapid fire, but they don't fall easily because they're zombies”. His Egoist Bible also confirms that he plays Dead By Daylight, which is a multiplayer horror game. Bonus point: Hiori’s favourite movie, Ready Player One, features an important series of scenes where the main characters have to explore a replica of the hotel from The Shining. The Shining is Rin’s favourite movie.

Solitude. Rin is ranked as the most anti-social member of Blue Lock in the Egoist Bible. He says he “doesn’t have time for lukewarm conversations” (although I do think on some level he longs for approval and love from someone, given how much he craves his brother’s attention). He is also one of the only characters who genuinely has no friends in Blue Lock. He tolerated Bachira for a time and trained Nanase begrudgingly, but no one is very close with him at all. Now, at a glance Hiori might seem far more social. He has a lot of friends and seems to enjoy hanging out with them. However, in his Egoist Bible entry it was revealed that his ideal type in a romantic partner is “someone who can leave me alone”. The wording he used — 放置し合えるん — seems to imply a reciprocal nature of this ‘leaving alone’, ie ‘you leave me alone, I’ll leave you alone’. Now tell me that arrangement wouldn’t work perfectly for Rin? Hiori is also shown in chapter 172 (which is before his character arc) spending time alone in the BM dorms while the others are out training. Furthermore, in Karasu’s ‘a day in Blue Lock’ in The Egoist Bible 2, he states that he and Hiori were in the communal bath together but did not talk or interact, and this was fine. While Hiori can enjoy socialising, he also needs plenty of time to himself to the point where it becomes a deal-breaker in a relationship for him.

Fetish. Hiori’s fetish according to the Egoist Bible is ‘fractured girl fetish’ and seems to refer to seeing injuries bandaged up (given that the actress he uses as an example wears a cast on her arm in the movie he’s referencing). Out of all the characters in Blue Lock, Rin is the one we’ve seen get injured multiple times, and in chapter 271 it was confirmed that this is a part of his nature. This was a part of him that was disapproved of by his parents and classmates, so Hiori actually liking it would be a massive relief.

Ochazuke (tea on rice). Rin’s favourite food according to the Egoist Bible is ochazuke, specifically taichazuke. In the Episode Rin extra chapter we see him going to enjoy some taichazuke at a traditional restaurant because he was hungry for ochazuke. When Hiori was asked in the Egoist Bible 2 what his favourite accompaniment for rice is, he replied that it’s the ochazuke brand Nagatanien.

Stripes. Rin’s casual outfits for both the Shibuya collab (designed by Nomura) and Episode Rin feature a striped/ribbed pattern. Likewise, Hiori’s casual pyjamas, childhood design and one of Nomura’s coaster designs feature him wearing striped clothing.

Egoist Bible rankings. In the Egoist Bible 2, they were ranked first and second most likely to have psychic powers. Hiori was also voted the best listener, meanwhile Rin was voted the worst.

Eyelashes. Both of them have long lashes. That’s kinda it for this one lol.

Water connections. Hiori’s favourite season is the rainy season and he has been referred to as ‘water coloured’ in the manga due to his hair colour (it means ‘cyan’ in Japanese — see point 14). Rin’s aura is water and he is regularly connected to the sea in his hometown of Kamakura.

Name kanji (yes, I’m in this deep). In Rin’s surname, the kanji 糸 means ‘thread/yarn’. In Hiori’s surname, the kanji 織 means ‘weaver’. Both of them have kanji relating to weaving, likely in relation to both Rin’s Puppeteer play style (and Sae’s insane control of the midfield), and Hiori’s way of ‘weaving’ together a best play through his skills (and his parents ‘weaving’ his life for him rather than letting him control it himself). To get even more conspiracy theorist-y, when Charles meets Hiori he calls Hiori “水色お兄さん” — literally ‘water-coloured big brother’, likely in relation to his hair colour because 水色 can also mean ‘cyan’. To keep it on the topic of water though, whose aura is made of water? That’s right. Rin’s! (yes I know this is really grasping at straws but I did say this post was for EVERYTHING hiorin).

A wild one here — dates. The exact age gap between Hiori and Rin is 9 months 9 days. 09/09 is Rin’s birthday.

Part 3 — Family Relationships: Love, Expectations and Abandonment

Rin and Hiori both have relationships with particular members of their family that are similar and also unique among the rest of the cast. For Rin, it’s his relationship with Sae. For Hiori, it’s his relationship with his parents.

To begin with Hiori, his parents only wanted a child who could fulfil their dream of being number one in the world at a particular sport. They held this expectation of him throughout his whole life, pretending to genuinely care about and love him when in reality all they wanted was for him to be the best. If he tried to step out of line, they’d become monstrous, as seen in his light novel: (chapter 2) “Can I take a day off from soccer tomorrow and go play with my friends?” As soon as he said this, the smiles disappeared from his parents’ faces. His mother looked very surprised, and then she made the scariest face he's ever seen. “......!” He doesn’t remember what she said. He just remembers that he was scolded terribly. After that, he was hugged tightly. “Hiori, you are born to be the best at soccer.” “You can play with other kids anytime you want.” “But if you don’t do soccer properly from now on, you will never be the best.” His mother was desperate. His father was behind her, looking sadly at Hiori. “Please, Hiori, trust us and play soccer.” Hiori felt that he had done something very wrong. … What should I do? I said something bad. I'm sorry. The air was stifling, as if he had been locked in a room full of needles. He felt like he would get hurt if he moved, so all Hiori could do was nod.” We also see the extent of this in chapter 206, when Hiori overhears his parents threatening to get a divorce if he isn’t the best. This makes him realise that if he doesn’t fulfil their expectations, his parents don’t want him. In essence, they would abandon him, letting their family fall apart and blaming it all on him.

With Rin, it’s a bit more complicated. His relationship with his older brother Sae is still pretty up in the air as to what really happened from Sae’s perspective. We need to distinguish between what actually happened (which is difficult to determine as of right now) and what Rin interpreted as happening. From his perspective, he has a moment in chapter 125 where he thinks Sae pretended to love him while they were growing up, only using him as a stepping stone to get to the world stage. After that had been achieved, Rin presumes was abandoned. This is unlikely true though (even if it’s tricky to discern for now). This is where I cry on deaf ears for a Sae light novel or spin-off chapter, anything to get his side of the story. My current PERSONAL interpretation of canon is that Sae still loves Rin, however he knows that Rin’s desire to be the world’s best as a duo is impossible, and his way of trying to ween Rin off such a dream was to sever their relationship, he just went about it in perhaps the worst way possible. No matter what really happened though, I’m more interested in what Rin interpreted from being abandoned, which is a mix of hatred and confusion but also still a desire for recognition.

This to me reads as very similar to what Hiori’s relationship with his parents used to be before his arc. Hiori hated his parents. He wished death upon them. And yet, despite that he kept fighting for what they wanted, fulfilling their expectations because he was so afraid that if he didn’t, all the blame would be placed on him for their family falling apart. Rin’s situation is sort of a dark mirror to Hiori’s, where instead of just fearing that abandonment, Rin was abandoned, with all the blame being placed on him by Sae. And just like Hiori, until his own awakening took place he himself was fighting for Sae’s approval again, trying to find any way he can to fulfil Sae’s expectations. We see this in the way Rin chose Isagi to be his rival after the U20 match not because of anything in particular that Isagi has done, but because Sae acknowledged Isagi. We see Rin’s desire for love in the way he travelled to Tokyo in the Episode Rin extra chapter to possibly watch Sae’s match, even though they’d already fallen out by that point. We even saw this limitation as recently as chapter 273, where Rin gives up a goal opportunity because, to him, Sae wouldn’t approve of it. His awakening has hopefully gone in a similar direction to Hiori’s, where he is now learning to play for himself.

Rin and Hiori both strove for love from their families and are now in the process of breaking from this mindset and fight only for themselves. This complicated relationship with love, expectations and abandonment is what draws me to a lot of hiorin’s potential. They both exist along a trajectory of breaking free from their families’ expectations, with Hiori having decided to not try to appease his family anymore and Rin having just started to unlock the true depths of his destruction without the need for Sae.

Part 4 — Headcanons: Some Fun Ideas

Anything from this point on is pure headcanon, taking into account all the canon information listed in the previous sections. This is NOT ‘speculation’. I genuinely don’t think any of this will be canon. Kaneshiro hasn’t consciously laid the groundwork for Rin and Hiori to interact but he has done so by accident and all the pieces are in place. This section is all about some fun ideas I’ve had about hiorin, mostly trying to use canon as a strong basis so that they make sense. These can range from canon-adjacent to domestic AU material, it’s a whole mix really. I’ll probably come back to this bit every now and again to update it with new ideas I have, so keep an eye out for that.

A shared understanding. Since they’re both familiar with what they perceive to be feelings of false love from family members, it creates a situation where they can understand why they act the way they do better than anyone else. I hc that this would help them to more naturally form link-ups on the field, since they’d be in tune with each other’s mental states as well as general play styles. Off-field they’d be able to recognise when something has ticked the other off or resurfaced some unpleasant memories. I don’t think they’d really be ones to talk about their family traumas to each other openly, but they’d have an understanding of the things they do find out and wouldn’t think the other is overreacting, especially Hiori understanding Rin. Hiori was voted the best listener, so while Rin likely would not open up much, if at all, Hiori would always be willing to listen to him. While I think it’s good that Rin has friends like Nanase who he can be more chilled out with, I personally prefer the idea that his partner is someone who can actually understand the depths of his issues and sit with him in the eye of the storm until it passes, rather than trying to just ‘fix’ him without being able to understand him properly.

Touch-starved and both slow to physical affection. Since they’re both introverted and Rin is emotionally constipated as hell, they aren’t really a couple that would be very into PDA. Not even hand-holding. But it doesn’t really matter for them. They’re both not very used to that sort of physical comfort especially in the presence of others. However, while I think in general Rin might be a bit more reluctant to initiate intimacy than Hiori, I do think he’d still be more inclined to initiate hugs. Why Rin of all people? Because he grew up with a sibling. And he was a younger sibling at that. On some level he would have received attention from Sae while their relationship was still good, even if only a little bit. Hiori on the other hand grew up an only child in a household where hugs and doting were used as a tool to manipulate him. He’d likely not be used to the idea of hugs as a genuine show of affection. But Rin’s hugs are always genuine and often given out sparingly and tentatively, after a lot of hesitation. They’re both slow to physical affection but they’d find a way to navigate their wants and needs together, taking their time.

All-nighter horror dates. Be it playing co-op horror games or binging horror movies in the dark, I think they’d both prefer that as a date night over going out to a restaurant. It’s an activity they can both have fun with as a shared interest, just the two of them, alone at home with no need to even leave the house. They can let themselves get more passionate and competitive (and sadistic) while playing horror games too. I particularly think they would play Dead By Daylight together a lot, with Hiori maining a killer since he said that’s what he would play in the Egoist Bible 2.0 and Rin playing a survivor since that allows him to fight for his life until death, something he strives for in life.

Owl eyes. According to the Egoist Bible, Rin’s favourite animal is owls (a lot of Nomura’s Rin drawings also feature owls, he has a plushie of an owl in chapter 270 and he wears a ‘fukurou’ (owl) bag in the Episode Rin extra chapter). It is also a fandom-wide thing to say that Hiori has giant eyes. While most people compare Hiori’s eyes to bugs, I’d like to offer comparing them to owl eyes — giant, round, staring into your soul maybe a bit too much. Hiori has owl eyes and Rin loves owls, so I headcanon that Rin would love Hiori’s large, curious eyes more than anyone.

Yoga together. While we only have canonical confirmation that Rin both regularly does yoga and is good at it, I hc that Hiori would also be quite good at it due to his parents likely drilling him with intense schedules and being helicopter parents about his health. Yoga would likely fall into it somewhere as a cool-down activity and a good way to exercise on rainy days. While Hiori initially wouldn’t find yoga fun to do with Rin due to his negative associations with it, I feel like over time it could be a nice bonding activity for the two of them. It requires minimal talking if they’re doing their own routines, and as long as Hiori isn’t messing up the moves I think Rin would tolerate the two of them existing in the same space. At the very least, Hiori wouldn’t try to one-up Rin with moves he can’t do and topple onto Rin as a result (looking at you, Isagi…). They wouldn’t do couples yoga though, just their own thing in the same space.

Sharing food. In the Twitter QnAs, it states that Hiori’s favourite food is salt-grilled saury (saury shiyoyaki) “including the bitter bits”. His least favourite food is cotton candy because “it’s just sugar”. Therefore, I hc that he tends to enjoy bitter food while disliking sweet food. In contrast, we know that Rin quite likes sweet food because he used to eat ice cream with Sae on the way home from practice, plus in the Episode Rin extra chapter he enjoys most blanc at a dessert cafe. Because of this difference in tastes, I like to hc Hiori giving any sweet food Blue Lock offers in their meals to Rin. Likewise, if the main meal Rin is given is ever burnt or charred too much for his liking, he gives the charred bits to Hiori since he knows Hiori will eat them so the food won’t be wasted.

Tea and coffee. As an addendum to the previous hc, I think Hiori would be a coffee drinker and Rin would be a tea drinker. This is because coffee tends to be more bitter, especially ones without sugar like espressos, so I can see Hiori preferring them to tea. There’s also the idea that ochazuke is made with tea, which is a bonus for Rin liking tea over coffee.

Cooking. Last food-related one I promise! While Hiori likely has a ton of technical knowledge about nutrition, dieting, calorie counting etc… due to his mother’s frenzied control of his diet growing up, I headcanon that he doesn’t actually have a clue how to cook. Once again, this is because of his parents being overprotective and worrying that he’d injure himself with a kitchen knife or burn himself on the stovetop. So he has zero clue about where to start in the kitchen. On the flip-side, while Rin isn’t the best cook in the world I reckon he’d have somewhat of an idea of how to cook the basics, plus he likely also has knowledge of dieting and nutrition for the sake of his own health. So while they’d both have things to learn in the kitchen, it would be Rin doing more of the actual cooking while Hiori decides what meals to eat to optimise their health and training.

A joint-aura that’s a blizzard — in the event that they ever were to team up on the field, I think that the aura they’d give off together should be a blizzard. It makes sense to me for them to have this because Hiori has ice associations with the kanji 氷 in his surname, which means ‘ice’, and in chapter 239 when he gives his monologue about finding a reason to play, a metaphorical key appears with a snowflake on it to symbolise his newfound resolve. Rin’s connections to snow are less positive though, since it was snowing the day that Sae abandoned him. I think making their joint aura a blizzard could symbolise both Hiori’s ultra-sadist resolve to play, and Rin finally being able to move on from Sae to associate the snow with his sadistic determination. A snowstorm joint-aura would also emphasise the pair of them having a sadistic, destructive take-down of their opponents.

Hurt/comfort. Given Hiori’s fetish and Rin’s predisposition to violence and injury, I love the idea of Hiori being the one to bandage Rin up when he gets hurt. From the U20 match we know that Hiori’s first instinct is to ask Rin if he’s alright and help him, but since his fetish is for this sort of thing I highly doubt he would scold Rin, chastise him or tell him to try his best not to get hurt anymore. Rather, he would accept Rin the way he is, tend to his injuries without pity or complaint, and Rin would be able to have someone be there for him who doesn’t look down on him for being destructive. We see in Rin’s flashback chapters during PXG that he was nervous about getting scolded by his parents, which is why I think Hiori’s acceptance would be so important to him.

Hiori has a type. His canon type is already ‘someone who will leave me alone’ as I previously discussed in section 2. However, I do like to semi-jokingly say that his type is also ‘dark-haired, analytical guys with an attitude who are really good at football’. Obviously this is meant to refer mostly to Isagi and Karasu (we’ve all seen the heart-eyes you give them, Hiori!), but it is amusing to me that the description also fits Rin perfectly.

Part 5 — Transformative Works I Recommend For New Shippers

These are just some of my favourite fanfics all linked together in one place. I’ll start with a shameless plug of my own fic:

14 Days To NOT Fall In Love (but guess who did anyway)

Summary: This annoyingly mandated break of Ego's was only fourteen days long. That would never be enough time for Rin to fall for this aggravatingly sweet, understanding, level-headed, cyan-haired gamer boy... Okay, maybe he'd need to exercise SOME restraint. Aka: how Rin and Hiori become mutually pining idiots after the U-20 match through a combination of video games, late night discord calls and learning that perhaps they're not all that different after all.

(Chapters: 10 , Word Count: 67088 , Rating: T)

And now for my personal favourites I think new shippers will enjoy, in no particular order (if any of the authors see this and have tumblrs you want me to tag, lmk!):

catch us in the morning by transrightssokka (kellallyourfriends)

Summary: Hiori looks down and brings his hand up to his mouth, hiding a faint smile. “You don’t wanna go home, do you?” “No shit, I don’t,” Rin says. He’d rather sleep on the sidewalk than spend the next two weeks with Sae. Hiori is silent for a minute. His pretty eyes flick to his feet. Up to the back of the seat in front of them. Over to Rin. “So.” “So?” Rin says. Hiori lowers his voice. “So, what if we didn’t?”

(Chapters: 3 , Word Count: 27206 , Rated: M)

Even When It’s Starless by saturnshots

Summary: Everyone’s had an imaginary friend or two — it’s not often they change the course of your life, but who says being imaginary could stop them from bringing your dreams come true?

(Chapters: 1 , Word Count: 2838 , Rating: G)

sine wave by starstruckdove

Summary: Rin discovers Bachira’s “super secret surprise” sooner than he’d thought. There’s a new boy standing next to Ego at practice, and Rin knows he’s new because each of his unfortunate teammates have made their presence (loudly and raucously) known in his life. The boy has a nice face–wide eyes and soft mouth, all rounded corners instead of sharp edges. His hair is a shocking shade of blue and Rin finds it almost familiar. “This is your new manager,” Ego says with about as much energy as a dead battery.

(Chapters: 1 , Word Count: 8990 , Rated: T)

Daydreaming by em_hiorin

Summary: Hiori can’t seem to concentrate during practice, as a certain Itoshi has been plaguing his mind.

(Chapters: 1 , Word Count: 1560 , Rating: G)

My family thinks we’re dating. by akiangelsolos

Summary: “Oh, I see.” His mother hummed, placing her silver fork down on the table. “You must be upset, Hiori hasn’t come over in a while. You have to be lonely without your boyfriend around.” “I’m not lonely-” Rin shot his eyes at his mom, “What did you just say?”

(Chapters: 2 , Word Count: 5486 , Rating: G)

Part 6 — Wow, You Made It This Far? Congratulations And Thank You!

If you’ve made it this far, then I am both immensely thankful and I applaud you. Seriously, thank you for putting up with my insane, delusional brainrot over this silly rarepair that has barely any canon backing to speak of. Hopefully if anything, you now understand why people are starting to take interest in the ship (or at least why I enjoy it). And if you’re a shipper now, welcome to the club! You will now have to watch Hiori and Rin never affect each other’s development, never interact in any meaningful capacity and you’ll be eternally bitter about it 👍. For any aspiring fic writers, I hope this can be a nice hub of info for all of you if you want to consult the hiorin ‘dynamic’ (i say in quotations because let’s face it, I made up like 95% of the dynamic based on analysis and a canon dynamic doesn’t actually exist). Also, bear in mind that in the off chance we do get some more moments, I plan to update this post. So you may end up being subject to even more brainrot in the future.

Until that day comes though, I can only thank you once again. Hiorin is my otp and no matter how much Kaneshiro doesn’t make it come to fruition, he will have to try incredibly hard to make me stop shipping them. The dynamic can change. They can become more and more ‘incompatible’. I don’t care. If hiorin has no shippers, I have passed on from this world.

#blue lock #bllk #hiorin #hiori yo #itoshi rin #blue lock hiori #blue lock rin #FINALLY this post is finished!!!#I’ve been working on it for weeks #it’s mostly for myself ngl #just a nice place to compile all my screaming into one clump #might as well share it with the world yk?#I hope it makes even a modicum of sense to any unsuspecting readers who don’t ship it #rinhio #rnho

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venus-is-thinking · 3 months ago

Text

A Narrative Defense of Levi Accomplice Theory

Hello everyone! I’m finally back with this post to celebrate the fact that DRDT is back tomorrow! aaaaAAAAAAAA–

For any of you who have no idea what the title means, consider it the second part to my year-old Narrative Defense of Eden Culprit Theory. In this, I’ll go over the narrative reasons why I think Levi being the accomplice (to Eden as the blackened) would make sense and open up interesting opportunities for DRDTdev to explore, if they do choose to go in this direction. I’m not at all trying to prove, evidence-wise, why Levi is the accomplice in this post.

My thoughts on the functionality of the Chapter 2 murder method are basically exactly what @1moreff-creator (nickname FF) outlines in their A Summary of the Levi Accomplice Theory + How We Got Here post. I STRONGLY recommend reading it, both because I think it’s a great read and because as far as I know, the concept of Levi as an accomplice isn’t really talked about outside of it, so it’ll provide some useful context as to why I believe this is a possibility.

That being said, I do want to disclaim this by saying that this post will be a lot more open-ended and speculative than the Eden version. Levi accomplice theory, at least in the context of being paired with Eden culprit, is objectively less likely to be true than Eden culprit theory by itself, and I could definitely see a world in which Levi is either innocent or involved in the crime in some other way.

There’s also the fact that, because I don’t believe Levi will be executed this chapter, there’s a lot more question of where his character is headed. I predicted the trajectory of Eden’s arc to end in a handful of episodes; Levi will hypothetically be facing entirely new motives and twists that I have no way to meaningfully predict, so take all of this with a grain of salt.

Still, I’ve been meaning to make this post for literally an entire year, and I’m not gonna let the “Chapter 2 resumes” deadline pass! So, without further ado, here it is: the long awaited Narrative Defense of Levi Accomplice Theory!

SPOILER WARNING THROUGH CHAPTER 2 PART ONE!

T/W: Murder, blackmail, traumatic pasts

I’m going to follow roughly the same structure as the Eden Narrative Defense, which means that I’m going to be looking at the following topics:

Motive (Why Levi would choose to help Eden commit the crime)

Story Arc (How Levi being the accomplice fits into the overall narrative)

Relationships (How Levi’s relationships impact this writing decision)

Character Arc (How this plays into Levi’s individual character arc)

Wildcard (A specific topic that I think is relevant to discuss for this theory)

These are listed in the order they appeared in Eden’s narrative defense, with Eden’s Wildcard slot being taken up by her emotional breakdown in the Trial and justifying how that wouldn’t be entirely fake/how it would be possible with her still being the culprit. Hopefully that all makes sense!

For Levi, I actually think the best starting point is:

TOPIC 1: Relationships

Because this theory is dependent on Levi helping Eden commit literal murder, I want to start off by examining Levi’s relationship with Eden.

Interestingly, they don’t really interact much of all in Chapter 1; to my memory, the clearest example of them being highlighted in the same scene is when Arei throws a fit over Eden not inviting her to bake with her, where in the same scene, Arei manipulates Levi after he tries to defuse the situation.

However, we open Chapter 2 on the two of them having a rather important conversation. Notably, Levi gets “good person” name dropped in this conversation. For those who don’t know, beneath the “All That Glitters” chapter title, there’s a faint hidden text of “A Good Person.” Pretty much everyone who is called a good person is incredibly important to this chapter (Teruko, Eden, Arei, David, and Levi), so Levi getting hit with the “good person” right at the beginning definitely flags him for importance down the line.

Interestingly, what is said here is:

Levi is called a good person due to his reliability, which clues us into the fact that Eden might be open to relying on Levi, even if it’s for something important. Notably, here, Levi still wants to help others and try to be the best person he can be, despite his slip-up yelling at Ace in the Chapter 1 Trial.

The existence of this scene at all, and especially given the fact that it delves further into Eden and Levi’s mental states as the killing game progresses, seems to indicate that this is a pair to watch moving forwards.

Levi also notably has another relationship that heavily plays into the idea of Levi being an accomplice: Ace.

Ace has spent the chapter telling Levi to fuck off and leave him alone, holding the fact that Levi said he would strange Ace over his head. To me, Levi’s strong reactions to Ace play very heavily into his secret quote:

I always believed that a person is defined by their actions alone. But maybe that’s just a poor excuse for my heartlessness.

(If you don’t know what the secret quotes are, basically, on everyone’s profile page on the tumblr website, there’s a secret quote hidden that you can find by inspecting elements. This is the one on Levi’s page.)

I’ll get more into this later on, but this is a rather interesting quote when paired with Levi taking the action of threatening Ace, but doing it through words alone. You could argue that he didn’t actually do anything, but that’s not completely true. Ace certainly seems to think he did something.

Levi is caught at the crossroads of his words of intent to harm Ace being treated as the true him, but any attempts he makes to reconcile are being treated as “just words.”

However, any actions that Levi tries to take are rebuffed. He can’t repair things with his words, and he can’t take action without violating Ace’s wishes, so he’s stuck. This, of course, frustrates Levi.

This was clearly a big character moment from Levi. It seems like his will to repair things with Ace, at least, is fully gone in this moment. Notably, we haven’t really seen any demeanor change from Levi that I can think of as a result for this conclusion he’s apparently drawn, which raises my suspicions that he’s hiding crucial information from us this Trial.

But, most people who think Levi is set up to be suspicious and giving up on everyone think that he’s going to be the killer. Why do I think he’s going to be the accomplice instead?

Well, a lot of it has to do with the evidence itself, notably the grippy tape and the contraption used in Arei’s killing (see FF’s theory post). But, there’s also the fact that it’s not unreasonable to think that Eden and Levi could’ve gotten scheming here.

While Levi walks off before Teruko, we don’t know exactly what happens afterwards. It seems like Ace got bandaged up at some point (possibly because Eden helped him?), but either way, I could see Eden and Levi talking afterwards about their opinions on everything that happened. And, of course, about their secrets.

TOPIC 2: Motive

For the sake of this theory, I am strongly assuming that Levi’s secret is “You’re a murderer, and you hold no remorse.” If it isn’t, toss this entire thing out the window, because it doesn’t make any goddamn sense.

I think there are two conceivable paths to Levi’s motive for helping out Eden here. I know that in FF’s post, they outline one of them: the possibility that Levi would prefer that Eden escape and everyone else die over the continuation of the killing game as-is. This would be based on Levi’s belief that Eden is a good person, and his increased belief over time that everyone else (including himself) is a bad person, unworthy of living.

I certainly think this is possible, but it leaves Levi’s character off in a bit of a weird spot. Like, okay, he decided to gamble it all on Eden and he loses. Then what? It’s only Chapter 2. There are certainly ways for his character to go, but I feel like at that point, he’s either dragging his feet before dying or dragging his feet before he gets to do his survivor arc. I’m not sure if it would leave enough room to explore his character over the course of who-knows-how-many-more chapters. I have to imagine that, if Levi is the accomplice under this plan, he’d make it through Chapter 3, because otherwise, it seems like the message of Levi is that he gave up and that means he died. But, what would he be doing throughout those chapters?

So, I think that’s a possible read, but it’s not the one I favor. The second read is a little more complicated, but I think it makes sense. Give me a bit to explain it.

This theory really focuses in on my interpretation of Levi’s secret quote, which is again:

I always believed that a person is defined by their actions alone. But maybe that’s just a poor excuse for my heartlessness.

What this says to me, in combination with Levi’s secret, is, “I am only a murderer if I am actively murdering someone.” Sure, Levi was a murderer– but that was in the past!

(Levi makes many cryptic mentionings of his dark past. I don’t know what exactly it is, but I believe that Levi has killed someone, and might not feel remorse for at least one specific killing. It’s also possible that he feels no remorse because that’s just how he grieves– by feeling nothing– which he alludes to in the opening conversation with Eden.)

However, Ace is challenging that belief that Levi has. Can he really change so much just because he’s acting on his best behavior? Besides, it doesn’t really matter; if people think he’s a murderer, what difference is there in how they treat him?

To me, that’s what Levi’s “Why do I even bother?” means. He’s realizing that, with Ace, at least, but also maybe in general, if someone believes he’s a murderer, that’s as good as him being a murderer. In combination with his secret, that means that anyone who learns his secret will treat him as a murderer, immediately burning any relationship they have with him.

It kind of makes me think of the concept of Thought-Action Fusion, which is the psychological term for the belief that thinking about doing something wrong is just as bad as doing that wrong thing. It’s not quite the same, but it’s that kind of idea. Who cares if Levi kills someone or not? If people think he has, he might as well have.

That, obviously, is a bad thing. It’s an even worse thing when you consider that DRDT seems to be a TV show, and MonoTV is threatening to reveal everyone’s motive secrets to everyone in the whole world if no one kills!

This then creates a bit of a paradox for Levi. The only way to prevent everyone from finding out that he’s a murderer is to murder someone on national (?) television.

However, there is one out for him in this situation. If someone else kills before the motive timer is up, Levi gets out of this situation clean. And that’s where Eden comes in.

(For clarity’s sake, I largely think this scene is a joke. I do not think Eden is actually doing anything sinister by “blackmailing” Teruko here, nor do I think either Teruko or Eden would actually think anything malevolent of Eden because of it. However, I’ve noticed that DRDT is very good at slipping relevant ideas or information into jokes, which is why I want to look at this.)

Eden doesn’t need to blackmail Levi, per se. At least, she doesn’t have to actually put the threat out there directly.

What I’m envisioning is basically that, after helping bandage Ace up, Eden goes and checks in with Levi and sees how he’s doing. Levi explains his frustrations with the fact that Ace is treating him like a murderer even though he hasn’t done anything, and it seems like Ace’s belief that he’s a murderer is good enough to condemn him. In response, Eden lets Levi know that she knows what his secret is.

Arei is the one who received Levi’s secret, but I’d be, like, 0% surprised if Eden knew it. Arei said she’d do anything to prove her loyalty to Eden, and especially considering how Arei overheard the secret Eden received, it would make enough sense if she told Eden about the one she received to “even it out.”

So, let’s say Eden says, “but aren’t you a murderer? Your secret says so.” Or something like that. Levi is now obviously in a tricky position, because the answer is, yes, that is his secret, but people aren’t supposed to know that. Eden would then loop Levi into her plan to kill Arei, and they would come to a mutual understanding.

Levi has to cooperate with Eden and do whatever she says when it comes to the crime, because if he doesn’t, Eden could easily reveal his secret. To Levi, that’s a fate worse than death, because it means that he will never be able to escape his past. Conversely, Eden can’t throw Levi under the bus and spill his secret, because then Levi would easily throw Eden under the bus and reveal she’s the blackened in turn. By giving Levi a severe secret of Eden’s own– that she’ll be the blackened– the playing field levels out into one of mutually assured destruction, where both of them respect each other enough to take the other’s secret to the grave if they’re the one who fails.

Eden, I think, would be willing to take this risk in the first place, because Levi is reliable. If she understands how his internal logic operates, she can trust that he’ll see it through to the end. Having an accomplice could make it much harder for people to find out she's the blackened, which is a huge advantage.

For Levi, if you follow my read of his character, this makes sense. His best bet is to help Eden out from a neutral perspective, helping her commit the crime but not dying on the hill to help her win. If Eden loses, she can respect the fact that he didn’t out her and tried to help her. Then, Eden dies, taking everyone’s secrets and the motive to her grave with her. Obviously, the secrets ended up being more or less revealed anyways, considering Arei’s body wasn’t discovered until after the motive announcement, but David is proof enough that the students didn’t know that was how it would be ruled.

Hopefully this makes enough sense! To summarize, I think Levi’s motivation to help Eden is to protect his own secret and survive the motive. The only way to avoid being known as a murderer is to help facilitate a murder without the fact that he was an accomplice ever being exposed. To have his secret revealed is basically death anyways, so risking death if Eden is the killer isn’t the biggest deal in the world.

INTERLUDE 2.5: Arei’s Glove

So, this isn’t part of the narrative defense, this is me repairing part of FF’s theory. Because, Arei’s glove is missing from her body, and FF’s reasoning ended up being “Levi can drop the glove to frame himself as the culprit mid-Trial if needed.” However, because in my world, Levi is still hoping Eden loses (even if he can’t contribute), that seems a bit far fetched. So, I tried to come up with an alternate explanation of why Arei’s glove might be missing.

One of them kinda sucks, which is that Arei was wearing her glove when the water jugs broke, drenching it. Because the turf is weird, you can count on the turf not being wet by the Body Discovery Announcement, but the glove could still be too wet, giving away part of how the crime was completed. Thus, someone hides or pockets the glove so that it doesn’t give something away. This seemed halfway viable to me before I rewatched the investigation, but between the fish being entirely dried out (non-turf that was definitely very wet at one point) and the positioning of the tape marks on Arei’s wrists (which I think would mean the glove would have to be off her wrists when you taped them), I don’t think it’s especially viable.

There’s FF’s original reasoning from a while ago as to why it could’ve been missing, which is that to get a better grip on the spinny thing (carousel), Levi may have put on Arei’s glove. It could’ve gotten scratched up or stretched out as a result, making it key evidence. This is a bit presumptive, but it works enough.

The weirdest thing to me is that it does seem like Arei’s glove was taken off before her wrists were taped. I’d think taping Arei’s wrists would happen fairly early, considering it makes it harder for her to struggle. But, getting her glove off while she’s struggling seems pretty hard.

The third explanation I have is just that Eden asked Arei to take her glove off at some point before Levi showed up, because it would be annoying to tape her wrists with the glove on. Then, Arei’s glove went missing in the shuffle, or they didn’t have a good place to put it because it would be difficult to put it back on once Arei is hung up. They couldn’t throw it in the trash, because Eden planned on the class reconstructing the note they left in the trash. So, instead, Arei’s glove gets stashed somewhere and they hope no one notices it, because if people stop to think about how Arei’s glove was taken off before her wrists were taped, it could point to Eden.

I don’t love any of these reasons, but combined, I think they’re good enough that it’s not a dealbreaker for this theory, at least. Pick whichever one is your favorite and we can go forward from there.

TOPIC 3: Character Arc

If Levi’s relationships have set him up for this, and he has a viable enough motive, what does it mean for Levi that he’s the accomplice? What is his individual story telling us?

I think Levi’s character is meant to center around the concept of what makes a person good, and what allows a person to properly repent. It really seems like Levi has a not-so-good past, something that’s only heightened if he does have the murderer without remorse secret.

There’s also the secret quote, which talks about “excuses” for “heartlessness.” Levi is trying to put his dark past behind him, but it’s incredibly difficult. He wants to move forwards from it, but he doesn’t know how.

If Levi is the accomplice, it provides a really interesting opportunity for his character arc: Levi will then be exposed as an accomplice and be publicly known as someone dangerous and possibly, to some, unforgivable, but he won’t die for it. He’ll have to figure out how to navigate the fact that he does carry the burden of his past actions with him, and he’ll have to learn to cope.

If a character is meant to ask how possible it is to repent, doesn’t it make sense to give an extremely concrete in-universe thing that they need to repent for, and that everyone knows they need to repent for?

I’m not sure exactly where Levi would end up from there. A lot of it depends on the other characters, the motives, and the kill order. I still think it’s definitely possible for Levi to take on the classic Chapter 4 buff curse/sacrifice killer mantle with this, if he decides that the only way to repent properly is to put everyone else above him. However, I do think it’d be interesting to see him fill any slot.

He could be a victim, if his time runs out. He could be a killer, if he decides that he can’t repent, and his only option is to once again try to outrun his past. He could be a survivor if he figures out that the only thing he can do is try to move forwards, accept his past, and try to do better in the future. I’m actually quite partial to the survivor interpretation, but it’s hard to make survivor cast predictions this early.

Either way, I think this totally makes sense as a direction to take Levi’s character in.

TOPIC 4: The “Murderer” Rule

This is my Wildcard slot for this narrative defense. I don’t know exactly what it’ll amount to, but I think it’s worth discussing.

Rule 14: All murderers must be held accountable for their crimes.

If Levi is the murderer without remorse, I wonder if this rule will apply to him. I also wonder exactly what it means. “Held accountable” doesn’t necessarily mean that whoever is a murderer will get executed.

I honestly think a really interesting way for this to go is if Eden gets found out as the culprit on her own, but they don’t realize that Levi is the accomplice. Then, in accordance with Rule 14, MonoTV reveals that Levi was also involved in the crime, and is also functionally a murderer. This forces Levi to be held socially responsible by those around him.

Another option would be that, whenever his secret comes to light, he’s at risk of some kind of execution. I doubt Levi would actually get executed there, considering a lot of the reason I like Levi accomplice theory is because of how interesting it’d be to further pursue Levi’s character post-murder, but it’s certainly possible.

It could also be something that comes up in Chapter 6. This rule feels like it’s a direct result of the mastermind’s worldview or something. If Levi is a survivor, it’s possible that, at the end, the mastermind will try to execute him or something because he’s a murderer. Hell, maybe every survivor will have a claim to be a murderer in some way or another. That’s when the characters will rise up and say that people deserve a second chance, no matter their past. Or something like that, I don’t know. Again, it’s really hard to theorize about the whole game when we only have, like, 1.75 chapters so far.

Anyways, onto the last point:

TOPIC 5: Story Arc

Oh boy, time to theorize about the whole game!

Because figuring out the moral messaging and final result of the last Class Trial at this stage is nigh impossible, I’ve been reading the Story Arc category through Teruko. How would it impact the way we see the story through her eyes if Levi is the accomplice?

Well, an obvious point is that it emphasizes how much you can’t trust anyone. You can’t even trust that there’s only one person with killing intent per murder! I’m sure Levi would be somewhat outcasted if this does all play out, and that would likely tie into a greater feeling of distrust. Between David’s heel turn, the sweet and helpful Eden tearfully being the blackened and facing an execution, and the stoic but previously reliable Levi being both a murderer (secret) and an accomplice (crime) out of nowhere, trust throughout the group would be at an all-time low. I think that’s a good thing; as I’ve said before, at this point in the story, I think we’re still validating Teruko’s worldview. It’s too early for a major shake-up, and to Teruko, these patterns are repetitive. They have to repeat at least a little bit for the audience to truly understand why Teruko acts the way she does.

But, even more than that, I think that DRDT has the makings of a central message surrounding fate.

Everyone’s fate is already sealed, according to Teruko. The Lucky Student cannot die, no matter what. All murderers must be held accountable. There are a lot of big picture makings of the idea that people’s fates are already set in stone, no matter what they do.

Levi is, in many ways, “fated” to be a bad person. He’s fated to be a murderer. Whatever his past was, it seems like he was set up for moral failure no matter what. Seeing Levi fall into that trap of his destiny, being a murderer yet again after being deemed a murderer, also validates Teruko’s worldview that everyone is doomed because they’re already locked into their slots. Even if Levi didn’t die today, he will eventually.

Except, if he doesn’t die immediately, he also has a possibility to invalidate that worldview later. Levi’s survival to a point and (presumed) attempt to repent again, even after everything, could be something that shakes Teruko’s beliefs in future chapters. I’m not saying Levi would be the catalyst for Teruko’s entire character arc, but I think it’s going to take a lot of instances of Teruko being “wrong” to actually change Teruko’s mind. This is one way that we could set up Teruko being wrong, dating back to Chapter 2, so that when we get the payoff, the seeds have been planted all along the way.

CONCLUSION

Hopefully this made sense! It’s been a long time since I’ve fully watched the series, and I only had time to partially rewatch Chapter 2 before writing and posting this. But, I remember a lot of the thoughts I had back when I was in peak DRDT brainrot, and I still believe Levi being the accomplice would make a lot of sense and open up a lot of doors narratively.

Obviously, this is what I currently believe, but even if you disagree, I hope you still found it interesting. I think it’s important to remember, going into these next few episodes, a core principle that pushed me to write the Eden Narrative Defense in the first place: we shouldn’t call something bad writing until we see it executed. Please remember to respect DRDTdev’s writing decisions and creative autonomy, no matter how you feel about the result. I’ll do my best to do the same as well.

With that being said, OH MY GOD I CAN’T BELIEVE DRDT IS BACK WE’RE GONNA GET ANSWERS AAAAAAAA–

#drdt #danganronpa despair time #levi fontana #drdt spoilers #despair time #this is literally 13 months late #but hopefully it's worth? the wait

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weebsinstash · 2 months ago

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Do you think Vox can make his fingers/dick vibrate? 🤔 And if he can switch out body parts, can he exchange his dick for different models? I feel like if he can do the latter, he's insecure enough to give himself a monster cock 😂

Oh no so it's like, absolutely canon. I don't care if the Instagram accounts aren't deemed official canon anymore because there are definitely certain aspects which are absolutely still in character or could be used as a reference and there was a post exactly about this subject

One of the old Valentino Twitter posts was something about how Vox had smashed Val's TV in a rage and had bought him a new one to replace it, and Valentino commented several things along the lines of "compensating much?" (it was a large tv) and "good thing it doesn't vibrate or I would have a new boyfriend 🤭" outright confirming Vox can vibrate

Pair that with Viv commenting that Vox tops Val because he is LITERALLY TOO INSECURE TO BOTTOM and I think it's basically guaranteed that Vox has stuff he does to his dick in terms of either making it bigger or idk maybe he was spare parts he swaps out. We don't really know the full potential of his body, or even if we are overassuming what he can do. Perhaps just because he modernized his head does not actually mean he can customize his entire body, however I think the ability to do so would fit the narrative of his character: a narcissistic showman personality who craves the limelight and attention and yearns to be seen and adored and staying relevant to the point he loses his own personal identity and even his physical body in pursuit of constantly innovating to try and keep views and keep expanding and making more and more money.

It really depends on his reasons for what he does. Is the money just a bonus, and it's more about the recognition, or is it a combination of several things? Is Vox mostly just insecure, or is he genuinely on that Capital At All Costs grindset?

Either way it's basically guaranteed that this man gave himself a dick upgrade and you cannot convince me of anything else. Seeing people's ideas for what his junk looks like is also fun too. Someone contact the specific subset of the Transformers fandom where it was a trend to design what their hypothetical disks would look like and people were putting neon strip lights along the glans and shit, have some of them get in on this.

You think Vox has like, a drawer or a cabinet full of dicks. Would he collect/commission dicks of different styles until he has like a collection, like he's got a miniature bad dragon marketplace in his closet. Obviously we can have our "calculated CEO menace" stories but we could, in theory, also have "this guy is actually kind of a little freak and develops an unhealthy obsession with trying to see how well you could take all his favorite 'attachments'".

Also just a special shout out to the artists who give him little like, feet pawsies, or shark features like a dorsal fin or sometimes a tail because 😭❤️ idk it's just cute that's it post over now

#hh

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coquelicoq · 1 month ago

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when i talk about yorishima as grandpa i'm not saying anything about whether i want him to be grandpa, just whether i think it's likely that that's what the narrative is setting us up for. and it's not so simple as determining whether there are suggestions that he is grandpa (there are) or whether this suggesting is done in a sneaky fashion (it isn't, or at least some of it isn't), it's more, should suggestions made in this particular way by this particular narrative be taken to mean anything? the foreshadowing that yorishima is grandpa is clunky, but given this story's baseline for foreshadowing, is that a point for or against the yorishima is grandpa theory? like is it reasonable to expect this story to very adroitly hide the clues about who grandpa is?

i'm on the fence about it. i'm rewatching s07e01 right now and the within-episode foreshadowing is as obvious as it is possible to be - natsume wonders if the little creature tanuma saw was a mouse, then immediately notices that the clay figurine he made is missing, and yet he doesn't make the connection that the creature tanuma saw could be the figurine, though that is the most logical conclusion and likely to be the conclusion that the audience will draw (since we know this is a story and have certain expectations about story logic and efficiency and relevance and so forth). and in this case we were right to draw that very obvious conclusion. so sometimes we're really hit in the face with what's coming. but i also feel like sometimes the setup for things that are revealed down the road is pretty hidden/offhand. which of these is what is happening in the case of grandpa? i don't know. i can't figure it out. so i'm always looking for clues about who grandpa is but then once i have them i can't actually do anything with them lol.

#if i had my druthers grandpa would have never come up #idk. that's not totally fair. it would be really interesting to know more about that part of reiko's life #but as far as natsume takashi goes i don't know what we could get out of it #so i'd rather grandpa be some random dude. so that we can focus on what he means to reiko and less on what he means to takashi?#is that crazy?? i don't know. i'm hearing myself. takashi is the main character lol #but it just seems so pat for grandpa to be someone natsume knows. which is just about my personal preference but doesn't #actually say anything about whether something being pat makes it less likely to be true in this story #sometimes this story is very pat!!#yorishima #storytelling #natsume's book of friends #natsume yuujinchou #my posts

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lesbianboyfriend · 5 months ago

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tell me about this btvs sexual violence thesis…..

okayyy i’ve been talking around this on my blog forever bc i haven’t had the mental capacity to make a coherent post about it but let me try now!!! i have some older posts that touch on some of these ideas too—i’ve linked a couple of them where relevant but honestly i could not find a bunch of them…but they are somewhere in my btvs lb tag. also note: i’m definitely still workshopping these ideas so id love to hear thoughts/rebuttals/expansions/whatever !!! it’s also all right now mostly working off my own thoughts/observations so i definitely want to do some research….i hope to one day write an actual essay about this

basically the summation of the buffyverse sexual violence thesis is that there is a narrative of sexual violence that is haunting the story. it goes pretty much unaddressed by the narrative at large, but it’s the crux of almost everything that happens.

i think there are two very obvious standout moments in btvs that highlight this sexual violence (the theory at large also encompasses angel but as i’m not entirely done watching it yet im gonna focus on buffy here, though i did touch on it briefly in a recent post about cordy’s death) which are the first slayer story and the spike attempted rape scene. going to talk about the first slayer first cause i think it’s kind of the framework for everything but important to note in terms of info that we get we + the characters aren’t aware of the first slayer story until after the rape scene.

imo the story of the first slayer is deeply deeply coded as a story of sexual violence. it’s about a woman being violated by a group of men who literally chain her down and force something into her. already, we’ve seen how being the slayer has isolated and harmed buffy, kendra, faith….its treated as almost a desirable, enviable position of honor (somewhat similar to how being a victim of sexual assault is sometimes painted as meaning the victim was “desirable”) but particularly once given this context, it’s hard to view being chosen as the slayer as anything but an act of violence against these women.

this is important to note because in a sense, it’s the slayer who upholds the moral binary of the buffyverse where good=soul, human and bad=no soul, demon. now this binary pretty much falls apart upon the slightest examination, because the story would not be as interesting if it was that simple. so there are multiple demon or otherwise characters who straddle this moral boundary—INCLUDING the slayer who not only straddles but enforces it. the outlier characters are presented as just that, outliers to this system, not indicators of its flaws. they are only good insofar as their goodness is directed towards maintaining the system. assimilation, not liberation.

okay, so, the spike rape scene. what’s notable about this scene is that it is, to my knowledge (?), the only moment of sexual violence that is explicitly named as an act of sexual violence. even in angel, which i feel has more overt moments of sexual violence, it’s not actually usually named as such. but what happens in this scene is explicitly named as a rape attempt. it is by far the most significant moment of sexual violence in btvs. so what exactly is going on with this scene?

now, there’s a lot that could be said and discussed about like, spike as a character, his motivations, etc (currently cooking up some thoughts about this myself), but for the purpose of this analysis i want to look strictly at what role spike is playing narratively in season 6. so, looking at this on a doylist level but NOT to be conflated with me excusing his actions on a watsonian level. anyways if we think about it season six is kind of a rejection of the larger moral order previously presented by btvs…i’ve talked about this vis-à-vis the demon/human evil/good binary and how season 6 really troubles those binaries. a lot of the season is about buffy grappling with these notions that perhaps her moral worldview is not correct—which leads to her spike. she’s previously made allowances for spike in this worldview, so she uses him as a sort of vehicle for exploring alternate theories. unlike the other demons we’ve seen allowances made for, spike is not “good” in the sense that btvs posits goodness for demons. he has done “good” things and he can’t hurt humans, but he is pretty explicitly still doing a lot of evil stuff. so spike gets to exist in the greyest area of any btvs character—his chip troubles the binary of who is and is not good/evil, not to mention who is morally killable under this worldview.

through her relationship with spike, buffy joins him there in that grey area. HER humanity (goodness) is questioned, which is not something that’s previously been up for serious debate. i talked before about how the slayer inherently straddles that binary, but as i said, both the characters and the viewers aren’t aware of that at this point. all of a sudden, there’s a total moral upheaval that creates lots of conflict….and this rejection of the prior moral order and exploration of what lies beyond it is what makes season 6 so compelling.

BUT season 6 isn’t the last season. and as we all know, season 7 kind of sucked!!! and went seriously hard on reifying that good/evil binary. so how did we get that wild shift between seasons? the rape scene.

as we know, “real evil” is only done by demons despite the countless terrible things we’ve seen human characters do. when spike tries to rape buffy, it cements him firmly back into the realm of monstrosity. violence, evil, whatever, they’re all signifiers of a monstrosity that removes the character of their humanity. we see this argument time and time again irl when people argue that people who do bad things are no longer human, thus rejecting the idea that they themselves are also capable of those bad things. this is why it’s so important that this moment is named as rape, as sexual violence, unlike the other instances. with the attempted rape, spike is ousted out of his grey area, back into “evilness”. buffy, as his victim this time, necessarily returns to the opposite side of the binary as him. buffy stops fighting against her role as slayer—she stops questioning the veracity of the system. in fact, she goes on to expand it, violating even more women in the name of “good.” spike realizes he has to conform to this moral order in order to “have” buffy (much to be said about that another time lollll) and regains a soul, the necessary signifier of his “goodness” and willingness to support the system he once troubled so severely. thus, the moral order is restored through an act of sexual violence, highlighting exactly how it predicated on the very sexual violence it claims to abhor.

some loose notes on other working parts of the thesis:

-general historical connection of vampire stories to sexuality (carmilla, dracula, etc)

-vampirism as sexual predation (penetration, vampires picking victims by seducing women at clubs)

-mystical pregnancy (in angel especially: cordelia, cordelia again, darla, cordelia…..) as a violation in and of itself and also a vehicle towards death

-angel and buffy in general. him being attracted to her since she was. 14

-sex with buffy returning angel to evil? not sure exactly how this would fit in yet but. there’s something there

-spike’s entire attitude for women

-xander’s whole deal

-as a matter of fact the way that pretty much every male character is misogynist

-episodes ted and billy (angel) -> presenting violence against women as stemming from an inherent monstrosity (billy somewhat contradicting this? but also reifying it. it’s left unclear tbh)

-darla in angel season 2 as a parallel to buffy in season 6…need to think more on this one as well

-dana….

#this took. much longer than i anticipated to type. but i would love to hear thoughts!!!!#jules.txt #btvs #btvs svt #btvs lb #asks #sa tw

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bananabreadcaramel-4 · 2 months ago

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Disclaimer: this isn't a jab at Tonny and I do understand that he is a complex character that is neither entirely evil nor good.

!!Might contain minor spoilers to episode 57!!

Anyways, I believe the author of Marionetta to be very intentional with what she illustrates and how she portrays her characters, including their actions. With that in mind, there must have been more to that part where Sahed was contained in a cage for two months. There have been plenty of discussions revolving around that and why Tonny would do something like that, given Sahed's history. While his excuse was that Sahed was dangerous and that he wasn't sure what to do with him, I think the author is giving us early signs or red flags.

Regarding that, I'll share two potential reasons:

He might be covertly racist, but at a very subconscious level.

So far, we have seen the overt racism of the citizens, soldiers and how Julia was at the beginning. Then the covert form which was Dottys comments. While Tonny isn't necessarily like the two given examples, he might have some lingering biases which can be shown in his interactions with Sahed, and his biases might be so subconscious that he doesn't notice them. Someone like Tonny might have been marinating in a lot of negative narratives about the ah'kon and it can be difficult to get it completely out of your system or notice the subtle differences in treatment and attitude towards them compared to Kalgratti people. Why wont he treat Rainah like that then? Typically, men of colour are seen as more aggressive, hypersexual and violent, and perhaps Tonny, and some of the other circus members (I'm looking at you Dotty) feel like he needs to be tamed and contained- like an animal or a beast. And perhaps those sentiments are also further fueled by something Sahed did in the past that might have made his relationship with Tonny rocky.

2. He might feel threatened or have an inferiority complex.

During the confrontation of episode 9, Tonny emphasized that he was the leader and that only he could decide who could enter or leave the circus. Then Sahed threatened that his position could be taken. Tonny doesn't feel like he is in control of his life, is under a lot of pressure and may, as a result, lead the circus carefully, in fear of everything he built crumbling. Someone like Sahed or Julia might threaten his control and, again, he might try to contain them.

Regarding inferiority complex, he probably doesn't feel adequate as a leader. He might have made a lot of promises to Sahed in the past which weren't met, or maybe he even got involved with Steinheimer. Now Saheds resentment and presence might be a constant reminder that he isn't that great of a leader. This could make him resent Sahed back as a result and thus his actions.

This is a minor and not well thought out idea lacking backing, but what if he also feels slightly inferior as a man??? Kalgratt being a patriarchal society, they probably have standards for what an "ideal man" should be like, similar to episode 59. While Tonny and the circus members do a good job at dismantling gender norms within the circus, perhaps Tonny has some lingering ingrained beliefs about masculinity that are also subconscious. Take for example, both him and Sahed are pining after Julia, and perhaps he feels like he isn't "manly" enough, since he is shy and isn't bold or aggressive in his pursuit. Take episode 57 as an example when he tries to use the "Saheds grab technique". Maybe it clicked for him (in episode 49 maybe?) that Julia is interested in Sahed. Though I don't think this is some kind of "team Jacob vs team Edward" setting where they are both competing for Julia.

What a long post. I've got some other theories and head canons that aren't relevant to this topic and will probably make other posts about.

#marionetta #marionetta webtoon #tonny marionetta #sahed marionetta #julia lazarrett

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leletha-jann · 5 months ago

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Le'letha's Grand Unified* Theory of Timestop Creatures

*sorry, neither

Before canon catches up to us, let's fill in the blank:

This creature

is _____________...

1) an aspect of Lucrezia

Narratively this makes sense. Lucrezia's the main villain and we really only know the edges of her story yet. But what we do know does not even slightly rule out her being an angry interdimensional timestop creature at some point. We know that the entity originally known as Lucrezia is time-lost and stranded - and I'll take as another data point that she's somewhere without cake! (Does that creature look like it hails from a dimension with cake?)

We know that a lot of time has elapsed for her and, while I can't find the quote at this exact moment, possibly at different angles - something the Castle describes this creature as traversing. We know that she has been changed by this, and appears throughout the known timeline in different aspects, appearances, and identities.

And today's page has the Dreen telling us that "a monster must grow! Develop! Mature! ...to achieve its full fearsome potential...worthy of attention."

That sounds an awful lot like whatever Lucrezia has become.

In fact, one of the very first things Lucrezia told us was "it's been so long since I was really human" (and even at the time, Tarvek went "um wait what", and then sensibly decided not to push.)

It's also distinctly ambiguous if the creature is reaching for the device as the source of the time distortion, or for Klaus. And while it doesn't mean much that I think it's going for Klaus, Gil thought it was. Gil's talent for intuitive leaps is the subject of a different post (I really must write it...), but he's very good at them. When Gil first saw the timestop creature, he didn't say "it's going for the device" or even for "it's going for the device my father used" (which would have moved the dialogue along as needed), he specifically said "it's heading for my father." I trust Gil's intuition. Here, and in general.

I think the timestop creature is an aspect of Lucrezia. And she is, as far as we know (see option 5), the Big Bad of the series, so "This is probably Lucrezia's fault somehow" is a solid guess.

2) an aspect of Vapnoople

This has been clearly foreshadowed and it's definitely something that's going to come back to bite at some point. This could be that point, absolutely! Not that I didn't enjoy the storylines in the Society dome (I enjoy that phase of the story a lot!), but every storyline is here to do something and it could 100% be the origin story of the timestop creature we'd already seen, because time is not, and has never been, linear in this story! Right from the very beginning! (Yes, this is the infamous Page Four, of course.)

Vapnoople said he'd be back, and once we could talk to Kjarl, we learned that Vapnoople would probably appear very differently and be quite insane.

Continuing with the idea that the creature is going for Klaus specifically, and not the device, it's possible Klaus cooperatively pinned himself to a board like a specimen and Vapnoople's taking the opportunity to get payback for, y'know, being lobotomized and turned into an object of scorn and pity. That being said, does a warped-by-the-monster-dimension Vapnoople care about that? And is Vapnoople a big enough presence to be the endpoint of the Second Journey? Is this his time to reappear in the story? Besides, he seemed quite happy to be heading off into the monster dimension. I don't think he'd be in a hurry to come back.

But time is not linear between here and there (or any number of "there"s). So this is a workable second option, and I know it's one in favor with many readers.

3) a totally unconnected genuine interdimensional creature

A pleasingly random option, but one with precedent - we saw the Queen's Society do this earlier and Agatha clearly thought it was relevant to Mechanicsburg.

One of the fantastic things about Girl Genius is that the world keeps happening. Not everything around us is about us. When you leave food on the floor, the ants that show up are probably not plotting against you. They're just doing ant things.

(...probably. Although in a world of mad science, who knows?)

4) an aspect of Euphrosnia Heterodyne

An out-there option and the one most likely to elicit screaming from the fandom. (An argument in its favor, I'm sure.)

The mystery surrounding Euphrosnia has been building up in the background for years, a little bit at a time. She was the last female Heterodyne before Agatha. Her story parallels Agatha's, has shaped Agatha's, and keeps being mentioned. She vanished in strange circumstances. How did that happen? Where did she go? Is she coming back? She has too much of a narrative presence not to - there's something going on there. Agatha is returning to Mechanicsburg. Is Euphrosnia? Carson von Mekkhan did say that the Heterodynes always come home in the end...

(See, I'm looking for the ramp-up, the twist I can't see coming, like the two-and-a-half-year time skip was in the first place. I keep thinking recently, we've all been thinking recently, everything's going so well...and I had that feeling before, at the end of the siege...right before everything changed... What's coming for us this time? What evil, evil twist do the Foglios have planned?)

And it would be a heck of a ramp-up to have one of the old Heterodynes, and the legendary princess no less, take the field and change everything.

5) something else

Look. It's not my job to outguess the Foglios. (And if you think it's yours, you're wrong.) I look forward to being surprised!

And probably screaming. A lot.

#girl genius #predictions probably about to be wrong #the Mechanicsburg timestop #the timestop monster #trying to outguess the unguessable for fun #writing down theories to get them out of my head #main site probably about to kick me out for jumping all over for links #posts that probably could have been polls #long post you should probably skip #in which i blargle to myself a lot

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moxie-girl · 2 months ago

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DRDT EP 13/14 ANALYSIS/THEORIES

I said I'd do this once I collected my thoughts! haha Warning! This is super long…

To start, I'm going to pick apart all the stuff I predicted for ep. 13 (I'll try not to make it too long…)

Levi's Secret

Well. Levi sure did admit to. All that! I think this eliminates any last doubts I personally had about him being the killer… (your honor just because I'm a serial killer doesn't mean I killed that specific person /ref) I really like that he isn't shown as a bad person just because he lacks empathy, and he's actually actively trying to be a good person… the fact that he just admitted his secret because he thought it was the right thing to do is so funny though, there go all my theories lol! (I'm still a little worried about rule 14 though…)

Ace's (Almost) Murder

Yeah!! This is probably what we're gonna spend episode 14 talking about, with murder method and alibis, etc. I still don't think it was Nico though! (I want to say I called that it'd be relevant, but it felt a little obvious…)

The Murder Method

I think we can say this has been all figured out, with the method being exactly what several people much smarter than me all figured out.

The Possible Culprits

Rose was still acting a little odd, but I think Whit on the other hand, despite whatever all that was, is off the hook for now, so my number 1 suspect is still Hu! I'm like 90% sure she was the one who tried to kill Ace, at least, and that's become very important now!

Secrets

Well, we got all the secrets figured out! (Hu :( ) The fandom interpretation was pretty much correct, except for Teruko's (we'll get to that later…) I do hope that after this trial, some of the secrets that are not relevant/haven't really been discussed do get adressed, because I could even see them becoming motives for murder again. But also, I just want the characters to talk about them! (gimme that juicy juicy angst…)

Ace

He didn't re-open his injury or really freak out like I expected, but we got some vulnerability (and a new sprite!) from Ace, and considering next episode is probably gonna focus a ton on him, I'm still expecting at least one of the two to happen…

Teruko

Luckily for Teruko, we didn't have anything unlucky happen to her this episode! But she sure did get her time in the protag spotlight anyway, I'm glad she didn't let the mistake from last episode get her down!

☆ ☆ ☆

Also, my bingo card! I got a bingo!! (ft. my messy tiny notes if you want to read them)

A few of my other bingo predictions I'm still going to hold on to for the next (few) episodes, but now, onto some new stuff!

Final Arei Flashback

Whoooah boy was that scene a doozy. I'm starting to think David's murderous rage towards the blackened at the start of the trial was genuine, because me too, man. I'm really glad Arei got at least a little bit of closure before she died, though! She also had an interesting take on the "good person" role, something that has been very important to this trial thus far and will likely continue to be. (I'm thinking that the killer may have had a "good person"-related motivation for killing, which is why it's the chapter's overarching theme?)

Also, to adress the elephant in the room… EDEN??? Well, no wonder Xander "didn't expect her to attack [him] like that" - and from her expression I wonder if she expected it either - I'm really looking forward to learning more about what, exactly, happened before the killing game that involved them! I didn't really believe in Mastermind!Eden before this, but it's starting to look pretty plausible... (Also Xander is the king of haunting the narrative oh my god lol)

Teruko's Secret

Many of us, myself included, were hoping/guessing/assuming that when all the secrets were figured out, David would reveal that he actually had Teruko's, not Xander's. While that didn't happen, the way he reacted after she claimed "her" secret essentially confirms it, as does a lot of other evidence:

That secret being hers would complete a secret circle of Teruko -> Rose -> Whit -> David -> Teruko and a secret pair of Xander <--> Min, which makes sense considering all other secret swaps are either circles of four or in pairs.

Xander and Min would have each other's secrets logically since neither of them can receive secrets, so theirs would probably be separated from the rest.

MonoTV's line about not knowing whether they're all correct feels like a reminder/a hint that some of the secrets are incorrect, and those two feel like the most likely options.

Teruko apparently has no idea which secret is actually hers, so may have just guessed the one that sounded more like her, except we know she never knew her parents and only had one sibling (as does Charles… I wonder if he'll notice)

EDIT: I cant believe I almost forgot, but I feel like David’s attitude towards Xander (and Teruko) makes more sense with these secrets, because why would he idolize Xander if the killing game was his fault, but he would idolize him if he thought Xander was trying to end the killing game by killing Teruko, the person David now thinks/knows is at fault.

However, since David didn't claim out loud that Teruko was lying, it's likely that this piece of information will become relevant much later in the series, and he'll be keeping it to himself for now.

Veronika and Hu

When did Veronika and Hu make their pact? And how did Hu, presumably the one who wanted to make the pact, know that Veronika had her secret? Also, what on earth do you mean, Veronika, that your secret isn't the worst thing you've done???? This little section with the two of them could just be entirely innocent and a way for the dev to get the rest of the secrets on the board, and let Veronika be a little unhinged as she tends to be, but I get the feeling at least some of this is relevant. (I'm betting on either Accomplice!Veronika or Veronika's actual "worst thing" being important to a later trial…)

David

Ohhhhh, David. I feel like Veronika with how much I want to psychoalanize this guy. He is on the verge of a breakdown, and I can feel it! The question being, of course, whether Arei's death was enough to make it happen this chapter, or whether this is something that's gonna last another chapter or two before coming to a head. My money's on the second option, because I think this trial is about to be about Ace and his impending breakdown :)

I do hope after this trial we do get to see a little more of what David's actually like beyond his facades/the roles he's been playing! Also, as much as I'd like to see David survive and have to deal with the consequences of revealing his "true" personality on live television, I think it's more likely he'll go the way of DR antags trying to end the killing game via self-sacrifice.

(We also better keep a close eye on anyone who tries to befriend or help David in Ch3, because they're gonna die next! /j)

J's Morality

This is a short one, but I just wanted to comment on another analysis I saw point out that J has been one of the most vocal people anytime murder has been brought up. I think that behind her rougher personality, J is a more empathetic person, and/or has very strong morals, making her a narrative foil to Levi now, so I do hope the two of them interact in Ch3!

Whit??

Whit. Whit why do you know so much about hanging??? Being serious though, I saw someone else bring up that his mother might have died by hanging and he researched it afterwards as a coping mechanism or something? That's the saddest possible explanation, but it does make the most sense by far… I honestly don't think that Whit is the killer, because then why would he be being so helpful in figuring out the murder method, but he's still so weird and suspicious sometimes.

Nico!

Even though I still don't think it was Nico (crime scene makes more sense if seen as Nico trying to help Ace, they may have just admitted to it because it was the less confrontational option, next ep is def not the last one and I think it'll be about proving who it was other than Nico, and if you look at Nico's secret quote…) I still do hope they get the chance to get mad! Get mad at Ace! Get mad at David! Get mad at whoever the (attempted) killer was for putting the blame on them! Idk I just want them to have their moment.

☆ ☆ ☆

And finally, here are my new bingo cards for the next episode:

(I can't believe ep14 is gonna be 40 mins + there's a "non-spoiler" thumbnail rn oooooh I'm so nervous)

#godd i missed being in a fandom w weekly episodes + theorizing its soooo fun #drdt #drdt spoilers #danganronpa despair time #hu jing #nico hakobyan #ace markey #arei nageishi #teruko tawaki #david chiem #drdt theory

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swe3tcoffe3 · 3 months ago

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Kris Might Represent a Meta-Concept (And Why I Do Not Like This)

Now to start things off, this is just a theory or potential possibility for Kris' character. Deltarune is an incomplete story as of writing this, and it's unclear which kind of direction this story will take as of now. This could all very easily be disproven by later chapters. The reason I highlight this is because I genuinely want this to be proven wrong at some point (for reasons I will discuss later).

I believe that there is some reason to suspect that Kris might have some ties to the metanarrative of Deltarune, and might actually be a meta representation of the narrative itself, control over a narrative within the context of videogames or even the force that drives a narrative forward in a given direction, and that this is something that will become an important aspect of their character.

This has been on my mind for a while now, not specifically this idea, but more so "how will Kris, the protagonist, tie into the meta of Deltarune?" This has been a question I've had ever since seeing how many meta connections Noelle has with The Player and their search for Gaster (being mirrored by her search for Dess), as Noelle is very strongly linked to Kris; they form a sort of unique duo of sorts. At first, I assumed it would be in a way similar to her tendency to break games, until I started looking deeper into things.

My first piece of evidence that Kris might be a meta-character is what Ralsei tells us about Kris' Soul. Ralsei does seem to be quite aware of the nature of the world he lives in, possibly to the point of even being aware that it's a game.

The fact that he highlights that Kris' Soul specifically has some level of influence on the fate of the world is important here as it shows that Kris is, at least in some way, heavily tied to the world around them.

This also gives them some kind of connection to fate which could be an allegory for the narrative. The reason why I believe that this might be the case is because Toby makes frequent usage of allegory and metaphor to make his meta more diegetic (so instead of having The Player directly acknowledged as a video game player, it's likely that we have the role of The Angel, an otherworldly being separate from DR's reality. The power to SAVE and RESET is an actual logical mechanic part of both DR and UT that characters are aware of instead of something inherent to the player, etc). It would therefore not be too much of a stretch to assume another allegory is being used here, to have the characters acknowledge the "narrative" not as a story, but as "fate", something that would make logical sense within Deltarune's world as well as our own.

My second piece of evidence that suggests that Kris could be a meta-concept is their direct interference with the narrative.

Whenever Kris does this, what they are essentially doing, on a meta-level, is taking charge of the narrative and driving it forward in a specific direction of their own choosing, despite the "risK" associated with doing this. By creating the Fountain, for example, they force Chapter 3 to happen, and while it's possible for any Lightner to make a Fountain (according to our current knowledge), I think that it is still important and relevant that the only person who we've seen successfully create one on screen so far is Kris, as it ties in to this idea about them being the one to drive the narrative/plot forward, because Kris is that force, the one that causes the plot to march forwards.

I would argue that this can even occur while they're still possessed, as a lot of events only happen because Kris' actions and decisions make them happen, not only through acting independently of us by saving Susie and causing her to develop and change, but also by taking on the role of "Leader" and "Tactician", both of which are roles that require someone to take charge and orchestrate certain events to take place.

Another piece of evidence I would like to point towards is Side B/The Weird Route. We essentially use Kris to abuse what we currently have, in the pursuit of something greater (most likely Freedom). However, something that I feel is often overlooked is the reason why we are able to achieve all this in the first place. One of the main reasons it is possible is due to the amount of trust that Noelle has in Kris, but I don't think that's the only reason why. After all, Noelle even remarks that the voice she heard wasn't like Kris'.

Despite this however, she's still compelled to obey. And I think the this could be because what compels her to obey could go much deeper than just Kris being a childhood friend (although I do feel that was a contributing factor).

I think it could also be due in part to what Kris represents on a meta-level. Their control over the narrative and ability to drive it forward is twisted into something sinister by The Player (who is most likely to be inhabiting Kris' Soul), in order to try and change the narrative so they can get their Freedom via using Kris to give commands, utilizing Noelle's natural tendency to break games through glitches to achieve this goal.

I point out the "commands" status here as I think it is an interesting word choice, especially given its definitions. One in particular caught my eye.

"The ability to control something". In a literal sense, it could be describing how us using Kris enables us to control Noelle. But it is possible that it could also be describing how we're abusing what Kris represents (what pushes the narrative forward) in order to break the game itself by controlling the narrative, directing it down a different path (an alternate side even) when we shouldn't have been able to in the first place.

Another reason I believe there is evidence to suggest that Kris could be representative of the narrative is what happens when Kris dies.

I've always found it interesting that Kris' death is referred to as an "end", mainly due to the fact that we know Deltarune is only meant to have one ending. But it makes perfect sense if Kris is meant to be representative of a narrative, as if Kris dies, that would in turn mean the narrative has "died" and is therefore finished. The world becomes "covered in darkness" because the story has ended.

One final reason I believe Kris could potentially represent something meta is due to the fact that we specifically possess them, of all people. A lot of what happens in Deltarune would be for the most part impossible if it weren't for certain decisions that Kris needs to make, and given their soul contains "the fate of the world", it would only be befitting for a Player, who has been "connected" to this world, to therefore control such a person who is at the very heart of the narrative, who could potentially even represent the narrative.

This relationship we have with Kris could even tie directly to Deltarune's metanarrative about our relationship with fiction in general. Us, The Player, are strongly attached to the fictional worlds, characters and stories, almost parasitically, something mirrored by our mostly unnoticed possession of the protagonist. However, we can never truly be fully immersed in it, and ultimately someone unhealthily absorbed and attached to the characters is destructive, both to ourselves and the fictional world, as we endlessly consume until there is nothing left for the sake of our own pleasure.

This would be why we could never truly coexist indefinitely with the characters and Deltarune, because we're not supposed to be with them. We're a real person, and they're not. We just have to come to terms with that, and let go of them eventually, letting the story end, and letting them have their peace.

Now, to discuss the second half of the title, and why I specifically dislike this. There are two main reasons why the idea of Kris representing something "meta" is not really very appealing to me, personally.

The first is that I really don't like the idea of Kris' character taking this direction. I think Deltarune would work much better if Kris was just simply a human. Someone thrust into this new world and forced to take on an incredibly big role, with failure resulting in their entire world and everyone they love being doomed to an eternal night. That doesn't mean I dislike the idea of Deltarune having meta-elements or even a metanarrative. I just don't like the idea of Kris being a concept of sorts.

The very reason I grew to be attached to Kris in the first place was because they weren't a meta-character. They weren't special, they weren't some kind of abstract being. They were just themself.

I understand that Toby is willing to give his metacharacters personalities of their own and traits that are separate from what they represent, but I still am not very fond of Kris being one, because ultimately, for his metacharacters, their main role and function in the story is to represent that concept.

It's why Chara's only more physically present in the Geno Route; they represent the mindless consumption of content, watching the numbers increase, accruing more power.

On the flip-side, it's why we specifically only learn Frisk's name only in Pacifist, because ultimately you have to embody and channel what Frisk represents in order to complete that route; doing things because you enjoy them, not because it's right or wrong, but because you enjoy seeing the characters and because you love the game and its world. The mindful consumption of content.

For Kris, if this theory is true, it would ultimately mean that the only function their character would have narratively is to represent the narrative, so for a "Pacifist" route for Deltarune, our relationship with Kris would be far more courteous; we enjoy our time with the fictional world, cherish the story, and then let go once it's over and enjoy the memories and friendships we made.

In Side B our relationship with the narrative would be far more abusive, breaking the game to get more and more out of it, ultimately causing it to fall apart from the seams. I find this unsatisfying personally, as believe it or not the meta elements of Undertale and Deltarune are not actually my favourite part of the game. This might come as a major shock to a lot of you considering I often talk and bring up both games' meta but it's only out of necessity really (I prefer the regular narrative/characters over the meta. It doesn't mean I don't appreciate it of course, nor does it mean I actually hate it or anything, but I still will always prefer the more regular aspects of UTDR).

Now the second reason why I dislike this heavily is that it calls into question whether or not Kris is actually nonbinary. Now I made a promise not to go too in depth about this specific subject anymore so I'll try to keep things as brief as possible here (and relevant), but I don't like how Toby approaches writing nonbinary characters, simply because he makes everything about that aspect of them either incredibly obscure or really open to interpretation and non-definite.

Another issue I have is that Toby also uses they/them for characters who are likely to not be nonbinary (in addition to his nonbinary characters), which adds another layer of confusion on this matter. Examples of this are Frisk and Chara, where there are non-bad faith reasons to believe that the two aren't necessarily intended to be nonbinary. It's likely that, due to the fact they are meant to represent an aspect of the player, their gender is left ambiguous/unclear so that the audience can better understand what they represent and mean. Toby's even used masculine pronouns for Frisk in the past, which aligns pretty well with this interpretation; because Toby is male, it would logically make sense for Frisk to be a male specifically to him, because Frisk represents an aspect of himself (The Player).

It also accounts for all the other weird gender stuff about them (why he goes to such lengths to avoid mentioning their gender, why he's fine with people interpreting them as "some girl", why they're even listed as "androgynous", a term that can be used to refer to characters of any gender).

Now this all may seem unrelated at first but the reason I bring this all up is because one of the other reasons I like Kris is because they were probably one of Toby's most blatant examples of a nonbinary character and a sort of step in the right direction (for the most part, they're not as blatant of a trans character as DR!Mettaton for instance, who has his identity firmly tied to and undeniably shown in the narrative, but I do genuinely hope that Kris will become that way or at least similar in future. It would be nice to see).

(Just a quick comparison of the two, I didn't include Kris' nurse/doctor outfit here because context clues imply the outfits are more tied to the characters' personalities rather than gender. Susie being a more brash character has a doctor outfit while the kinder/softer Ralsei has a nurse's. Kris using both is just a sign that they can simultaneously be intimidating/scary and also soft-hearted at times too. It should also be noted that nurse and doctors aren't inherently gendered roles too, which is yet another reason why I didn't think it was worth mentioning in the image.)

However, if this theory is true, which isn't a 100% guarantee let me repeat myself here I cannot stress that enough, it suddenly calls into question whether or not Kris is actually nonbinary, as both Frisk and Chara lie in this weird ambiguous "it can be whatever" state as they both embody meta-concepts. If Kris also represents a meta-concept, would this logic also apply to them? Or is whatever Kris represents fundamentally different, which would allow them to be nonbinary and also be a meta-concept? Or is all of this just wrong and they are actually just a regular character after all?

Toby has corrected people on Kris' pronouns, but then also at the same time it doesn't necessarily prove that Kris is nonbinary, just that they use they/them, which again, when Toby writes a character doesn't automatically mean they're nonbinary (see Frisk and Chara, as while in their cases he doesn't correct others over pronoun-usage, I do think it's worth pointing out as within canon the only pronouns used for the two are they/them, which shows that when writing characters Toby doesn't consider a characters' pronouns indicative of gender). And given that it's not really possible to gender a narrative, it could be a case where Kris has to use they/them in order for the meta surrounding them to make sense. Or again, this could be all wrong and Kris will be proven to be nonbinary (the option which I hope is true).

All in all, my final thoughts on this is that while I do think there's a small chance that Kris could possibly represent something meta, ultimately I don't like it all that much, as I don't like what it means for the character in general. They'd feel sort of like an inferior version of Frisk in my personal opinion; incredibly passive in the way they portray their meta whilst not actually being capable on their own, relying on their influence over others instead, sacrificing what could have been an interesting character solely for the sake of the meta.

The main message their character would likely be portraying would also be mediocre in my opinion, as based on the current story beats and this theory, it'd most likely be something along the lines of "leaving behind the fictional world is the best option", which I don't think is 100% true. I think fiction in general is a good thing, it's an outlet for many different creative ideas, opinions, worldviews etc. I'm okay with Deltarune exploring the idea of a Player unhealthily attached to a fictional world, but if the final message the game had to say was that leaving said world completely is the right thing to do then I also think that too is wrong, as I personally think it's much better overall to find a healthy balance between consuming content and living in the real world, although these are just my personal opinions.

In all honesty I really hope I'm wrong here, as I don't like this theory at all. While writing this I was actually actively searching for ways to disprove it but couldn't find any myself. If there was anyway to disprove this, I would greatly appreciate it.

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