#i also just. love the existence of the romance plotline even if i don't like. care. really?

[anthonycrowley]

genuinely cannot tell if you liked the new season or fucking hated it with every inch of your soul

it's complicated. it's layered.

[writingquestionsanswered]

How do I plot a romance story?

Most advice and plot structures I have found seem to be focused on quest-type stories. Do you have any advice or templates that are mpre easily applicable to romance stories? Do I need to include another major plotline?

Basic Romance Structure

Like most stories, there are different theories and methods about structure, and you can find these by Googling "romance story structure." However, let me walk you through a basic romance structure to show you the differences and similarities with the kind of structure you'd use for something like a quest story or an adventure story.

Introduction/Normal World - Like most stories, romance stories usually open with a peek at the protagonist's "normal world" as a means of introducing who they are and what their life is like. And, as with other stories, this also introduces us to the both characters' internal conflicts. In romance, rather than resolving the internal conflict with growth in relation to the story events, the internal conflict will be resolved via change/growth in relation to the romance. [Example: Sandi is a florist with a four-year-old daughter, navigating single parenthood after her husband filed for divorce and ran away to chase a dream.]

The "Meet Cute" - This is essentially the inciting incident... the moment the two characters meet for the first time, or the first time in a long time. All in one moment, we see how undeniably right they are for each other, but due to their individual internal internal conflicts, they're butting heads big time.

[Example: Sandi meets Brent, the new flower supplier who is adorable, sweet to Sandi's daughter, but infuriatingly inept at doing things the way she likes them.]

Forced Proximity - After the "meet cute," something will inevitably force them to spend time together. They get partnered together on the same job, stuck together in the same place, keep coincidentally bumping into each other... whatever. All that matters is that they're forced to get to know each other despite their head butting.

[Example: they get roped into working together on the town's rose festival.]

Resistance/Rejection - Now that they're forced to interact for whatever reason, they're going to spend a lot of time resisting their mutual interest/desire for one another due to whatever obstacles exist, like being from warring factions or one being in the middle of a divorce. But despite this resistance, we can see the sparks flying between them, even if they can't or don't want to admit it.

[Example: Sandi wants to focus on running her business and raising her daughter; Brent just got out of a long relationship and isn't ready for romance.]

Waning Resistance/Giving Love a Chance - Eventually there's a breakthrough... the obstacle gives way... they have a really fun time hanging out at the Christmas market and almost kiss... they move past the misunderstanding between them... or maybe they just slowly get over their issues and start to fall in love. Either way, they decide to give the relationship a go.

[Example: as they get to know each other and bond through working on the rose festival, they can't deny how compatible they are and an unexpected first kiss gives Brent the courage to ask Sandi out on a date, to which she agrees.]

Three Steps Forward, Two Steps Back - This is essentially the first date, then another one, then another one... though it doesn't have to be actual dates. It just needs to be some interactive scenes when they're in relationship mode. Each of these interactions will deepen their feelings for one another while at the same time raising new obstacles or re-raising the old ones.

[Example: the first date goes well except that Sandi is preoccupied with the fact that her daughter is staying with a new sitter. The second date goes okay, except Brent is in a bad mood after his ex came to town to pick up the last of her things. Then they pull an all-nighter to make some final preparations for the upcoming rose festival, which leads to a philosophical conversation about the future, wherein Sandi says she sees herself getting remarried one day and having another kid or two, and Brent says he can't ever see himself getting married or being a father.]

This Isn't Going to Work - This is the midpoint crisis... the "all is lost" moment where one or both put on brakes and say, "I can't do this," citing whatever obstacle/s that now stand in the way of their happiness. Sometimes this follows their biggest act of intimacy yet, whether that's simply their first kiss or going all the way. It could even be the first declaration of love, being introduced to family, or some other important early relationship milestone. But then it all falls apart... maybe because one or more of the obstacles become too much, a fear-based retreat, or some other external force

[Example: the rose festival has arrived... Sandi is there with her daughter and parents, Brent is there with his mom and sister. Everyone meets, Brent continues to be great with Sandi's daughter... it's obvious Brent and Sandi belong together. But then Sandi's wayward not-yet-officially-ex-husband shows up and wants to get back together. Although she's ambivalent, seeing him interact with their daughter and her parents makes her realize giving him another chance is what's best for their daughter. Meanwhile, Brent witnesses this from far away, thinks, "I'm not good enough for a family like that," and he and Sandi go their separate ways.]

On Second Thought... - This is the moment when something happens that makes one or both characters realize they belong together... that the obstacles aren't real or don't matter... [Example: Brent finds a drawing Sandi's daughter made of the three of them together that makes him realize he really is worthy of their love. And Sandi sees that her husband hasn't changed, that he's still focused on chasing dreams that aren't what's best for their daughter... or herself, for that matter. ]

The Moment of Declaration - This is where the one character finds the other, or they find each other, and one or both declare their love and commitment to the other, despite whatever obstacles there may be. This is the run through the airport to catch the other before they fly away to a new life. It's the objection at the wedding before the other can go forward with the less-than-ideal marriage. It's the boombox on the shoulders, the kiss in the rain, the "I love, I love, I love you. I never wish to be parted from you from this day on" declaration in a foggy field at sunrise. [Example: Brent hears from a friend that Sandi's husband left again. He goes to the last night of the rose festival, finds Sandi, and tells her he wants all of it... her, the daughter, her quirky parents, the flower shop, marriage, more kids... he is ready to take on the world with her, and she couldn't be happier.]

The Happily Ever After or "HEA" - This is the story's denouement, where we flash forward a few days, weeks, or more and see the happy ending. This is the jump ahead a few months to see the happy couple living their lives together, the one year leap ahead to the wedding, or a leap ahead to a moment even further down the road when the couple is firmly established in their HEA.

[Example: two years later, Sandi and Brent have been married almost a year, and are at the rose festival with the now six-year-old and their newborn twins, Sandi's parents, and Brent's mom and sister, one big happy family.]

Now... like I said, there are a variety of different structure templates for romance as there are for other genre stories. Don't feel like you have to pick one, and if you do, don't feel like you have to stick to it exactly. Story structure is just a guideline to help make sure you hit the important points to help the story unfold.

Happy writing!

•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••

I’ve been writing seriously for over 30 years and love to share what I’ve learned. Have a writing question? My inbox is always open!

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[dalekofchaos]

Choices I would've added to Life Is Strange

I posted this on the LIS subreddit and thought I'd post it on here.

I wanted to keep to the same story without altering anything major, otherwise I would've stuck to the original plotline with Sean as the big bad, Nathan knowing about the storm, have Max, Chloe, Warren and Victoria team up to give Warren, Kate and Victoria more screen time and give them romance paths and add a ending where Max goes back to save Rachel, Chloe and the Bay.

I might be breaking a rule by adding more Warren, but cut content suggests we were meant to see Max, Chloe and Warren together as a team. Concept art sketch for a cut scene by Edouard Caplain, depicting Max Caulfield, Chloe Price and Warren Graham

Episode 1

Take photo of David harassing Kate. Rewind. Comfort Kate. Keep photo. To this day it baffles me that this is the only time - the only time - where the game breaks its own rules of "Max keeps things on her when she rewinds." Even small things like helping Joyce make breakfast respects this rule. If you tell Joyce you want one thing, grab all the ingredients, and then rewind to tell her you want the other thing, all the ingredients you grabbed are still in your inventory! You can have the items for both breakfasts in your inventory. Though the game does remove them all once you talk to Joyce and commit to making breakfast. You could make an argument that the photo didn't exist to the point she rewinds to, which breaks the semantics of how the time-rewind works (notably how if you pick up an object off say a table, then rewind to before you picked it up, it's still no longer on the table), but it still annoys me endlessly. Because that was my natural thought on that sequence, and the game just slaps your wrist and says "No. In this game all about rewinding and undoing your decisions and not having to commit to them, you have to commit to one." It becomes more relevant and thematic in later chapters, but it just felt oddly out of place so early in Chapter 2.

The choice between Help Warren before jumping into Chloe's truck or not. If you help Warren, Max kicks Nathan in the balls and Warren doesn't get a black eye. If you don't help, Warren gets a black eye as was in canon

Warren romance playthrough. A series of choices to help flesh out Warren as a character and a potential partner for Max. Continuing on the Help Warren choice. Helping Warren also leads to Warren hopping in the truck with Max and Chloe. Warren has a black eye from the headbutt and Chloe offers to use the first aid kit in the bathroom. Cute scene where Max helps Warren reduces the swelling of his black eye and you have the option to hold Warren’s hand or not. Warren takes off when his eye is healed up enough and wishes Max well in reconnecting with Chloe

If you choose to comfort Victoria, this leads to an actual friendship with Victoria. When she sends the thnx but we're not friends" text, you can reply insisting on it. This will prompt you to go back to the dormitories and when you go back to Vic’s dorm, Max and Victoria get to talk, become close, show Victoria the pictures Max has taken, have a laugh over the email situation and get Victoria to see the way she was treating Kate was wrong. Victoria will tell Max that she was jealous over her not caring what anyone thinks of her and thanks Max for coming and invites her to join the Vortex Club as it needs real cool people like her and not snobs and suck ups. Max asks advice on what to do with Chloe and tells her how guilty she feels for not keeping in touch and asks what she should do. Victoria tells Max to suck it up and get back in touch and make it up to Chloe and Max thanks Victoria for the advice and they leave as friends.

If you took Victoria's photo after Chloe proclaims "booyah skank, karma's a bitch" Chloe will ask to keep it because it gives her joy to seeing Victoria brought down to a peg and that Rachel would've loved it.(will add onto this for the other episodes)

Episode 1 ends with Max, Chloe and Warren together as the snow falls(evidenced by the concept art)

Episode 2

Romance Warren path. After Warren's offer to Go Ape, Max gets to explain her powers and the situation with Kate and Nathan. We get to prove it to Warren, we also get to learn more about Warren as a character. We find out Warren is basically the boy version of Matilda. Was neglected as a child, so he chose books and science as his passion and sci-fi and it made him feel whole.(idk this was the best I could come up with, but it’s more than what DONTNOD has given us) then Warren will promise that he will look around and help out with Kate.

Max will take photographic evidence of Nathan vandalizing Max's room and leaving the threatening messages. When Max accuses Nathan at the end of the episode, she presents it to Wells, Wells recognizes the message as Nathan's handwriting and Jefferson recognizes the photo as Nathan's style and this leads to Nathan spending the night in jail as well as being suspended.

Continuing on from Chloe and Victoria's paint photo. We are given the chance to tell Chloe about Kate's situation and let’s say in addition to showing off our powers to Chloe, Max tells Chloe about Kate’s ordeal and Chloe’s just as pissed as Max. Maybe in the Junkyard or on the way back to Blackwell, Chloe will offer Max to mass produce the pictures, post them everywhere at Blackwell and email the picture so she can post it online. She says “let’s call this Kate’s revenge” if you accept this will happen throughout episodes 3-4. -Victoria feels what it’s like to be humiliated and bullied and feels some humility -Everyone in the Vortex Club except Nathan turns on Victoria -Everyone in Blackwell calls her “paintgirl” and some things worse. -Victoria absolutely hates us and when she sends her texts, Max can either apologize or stand her ground and call her out like the bitch she is “karma’s a bitch ain’t it? this is what you made Kate feel. You deserved every bit of it.” -At the party, you can try to make nice and Victoria will learn a lesson that there are consequences for her actions. You can either forgive or condemn Victoria. Whichever you choose, you then choose to warn her or not about Nathan.

Continuing on the Victoria friendship. Victoria is genuinely nice to Kate and apologizes and says she deleted the video. This will prompt a hopeful Kate and a Taylor asking “wtf was that and Victoria laying down the law yelling “be nice to Kate and Caulfield, that’s an order” Continuing on after Max convinces Courtney to let her in the guest list and into Jefferson’s room, Nathan will be his mean self but Victoria will say “be nice to Max, she’s my best friend” Victoria will start calling Max Maxine, while Max doesn’t like it, Max will allow her to call her that if she gets to call Victoria “Tori” Victoria and Max will have a moment to talk before class starts. Catches up, Max shows the photos she’s taken in episode 2, asks how Kate’s doing and finally Victoria personally invites Max to the End Of The World Party and you are given the choice yes or no, obviously you choose yes. Which prompts Victoria to say “congratulations Max Caulfield, you’re officially a VIP member of the Vortex Club��

Episode 3

Warren romance path. Max, Chloe and Warren will be investigating Blackwell together. Warren will use his hacking skills to help them break into school. They each search for clues. In the Principals office of course, but also searching where the last Vortex Club was in search of anything that might help. Warren keeps a lookout while Max and Chloe skinny dips in the pool and Warren is the one to warn them to hide. You get the choice of choosing between going to Chloe’s place or going to Warren’s dorm. In Warren’s dorm, it will open with Max and Warren holding each other, Max at first blushes, but embraces the moment and the two taking a selfie together. We see Warren's dorm looking like this. Max talks to Warren, about how much she appreciates Warren for always being by her side, and Kate's. Warren tells Max that he loves her And a choice prompts to Kiss Warren or Hug. In place of Max wearing Rachel's clothes, Max wears one of Warren's nerdy shirts. They will talk and say they should go on a date to the End Of The World Party as a date and a means to spy on Nathan and make sure he doesn’t hurt anyone again. Chloe texts Max to come over and Max kisses Warren goodbye and says “see you later my white knight.”

Victoria friendship path. In the beginning of episode 3, Victoria sends a text congratulating Max and saying she’s proud she did something, while Max says she did more by the end and saying she’s proud of Tori

When we kiss Chloe, Chloe doesn’t push back, she embraces Max in a kiss

When we choose the “Side with Chloe” option in episode 3, we print out David’s evidence and take pictures of the surveillance footage as proof for Joyce. We talk about it but we don’t show it to Joyce and Joyce automatically sides with Max. I’d also have David snap and attempt to hit Chloe and Joyce stops him and finally puts her foot down with David and shows him the door. Always bothered me that Joyce only begins to side against David by Max's word. She might as well have screamed that Max was the golden child. Joyce spent literal years watching David treating Chloe like crap right in front of her, and even now that he’s raising his hand at her she’s not reacting, but the second he talks a little too harshly to Max, she jumps to take her side and honestly. Chloe cannot not have noticed that. Obviously she wasn’t going to start a scene about this since they were already all fighting with David, but I’m pretty sure she would’ve under different circumstances because. The audacity. I would’ve gone mad.

Max will get to stand up to Chloe. Basically she puts her foot down on Chloe. After Chloe snaps after finding out about Rachel and mocking Kate's suicide attempt/suicide, Max can then lose her shit and stand up to Chloe. Basically says the way she treats her is not okay and if she wants to help her find Rachel and seek justice for Kate, then things are gonna have to change or they are finished. Then Max leaves Chloe behind with Chloe realizing that she needs to change. I just REALLY wanted Max to stand up to Chloe at the end of this episode instead of just letting Max act like a doormat and take her shit.

Not really a choice. But I'd alter one thing about Alternate's Max's look. Give her long hair, and tied up in a ponytail like she was a kid.

Episode 4

Not really a choice, but after the returning from her time jump, Max returns to her dorm and goes to Chloe. Chloe properly apologizes for how she’s been acting since they got back together and agree to put everything in the past so they can work together to find Rachel and give Kate justice. Would've been better than just seeing the apology over text.

Before we begin our investigation in episode 4. Max calls Joyce and David so everyone could let it all out. It’s basically the therapy that Joyce wanted David and Chloe to go to but didn’t. Chloe calls out David for his abuse for the last 3 years of her life and the fact that he made her feel like a prisoner in her own home and how much the cameras made it worse. Then Chloe calls him out on Rachel. “Rachel was my angel. She was the only good thing that ever happened to me since my dad died and you and the spoiled rich kid took her away from me. Worse. You stalked her like you stalked Kate. And now Rachel is missing. Congrats, David I hope it was fucking worth it.” Then Chloe unloads on Joyce. For all the times she covered for David’s abuse, choosing to either ignore or condone the abuse and for the fact that she’d rather pretend everything was fine. Maybe end it with “I didn’t need a fucking step-father, I needed my mother when I needed her most and your first instinct was to chose the worst fucking man to bring into my life. Fuck both of you.” Maybe after David and Joyce say their piece.(hopefully both of them being remorseful) Max can either choose to tell Chloe to forgive them or “fuck them” basically Max calls out David for his bullying and abusive behavior, Max can call out David. “You saw Frank, who was an adult, perving on Rachel, a high school student, you even had the evidence and you did nothing? Kate needed help and instead of being that help, you treated her like shit” David admits he fucked up with Rachel and wishes he could’ve sent his evidence to the police. then Max calls out Joyce for being a shitty mother. “I used to think you ruled Joyce, but you are a terrible mother. Chloe needed a mother and you failed her. She needed you, she didn't need you to bring some man she's never met before, she needed her mother who was traumatized and hurt by her father's death. And you let David hit your daughter and don't even see anything wrong with it? You talk about Chloe like she's a problem, like a burden. She's your daughter Joyce and she deserved better. ” David and Joyce would apologize to Chloe for the past three years and do better for Chloe. I don’t know how forgiving them would play out, maybe it would be therapeutic and would result in closure for the Price-Madsen family and they have a chance to start over after Max helps them in that direction. After choosing condemn them. I think Chloe would tell Max. “Max, thank you. I needed to finally let all that shit out.” “You deserved so much better Chloe.” “I got better Max, I got you.” And if you chose forgiveness. “I will still hate them both for how life went for the last 3 years, but I think we can start fresh. Thank you Max.”

Chloe would enter Kate’s hospital room with Max. We’d see Kate talking with Chloe and we find out that Kate was there for Chloe when Rachel went missing and made Chloe feel a little better, that’s why Chloe said “she’s cool”

Max can warn Kate about the storm and tell her to leave Arcadia Bay immediately.

Reject Warren path. After the Warren/Nathan situation. If you're pursuing Chloe and only choose platonic actions with Warren. Max gets the opportunity to turn Warren down. Max will tell him she's sorry, she just doesn't feel that way about Warren and just sees him as a cool geeky older brother and points out to Warren that Brooke likes him and that he should totally hook up with her, Warren appreciates for gently letting him down and is glad they can still be friends and says that he's glad Max has Chloe. You will see Warren and Brooke together at the party.

Max calls out Frank on his bullshit. Instead of choosing to befriend Frank, Max gets to call him out. Calls him out for turning Pompidou into a violent attack dog, the fact he sells drugs to kids and his predatory obsession with Rachel. “You didn’t love Rachel, you were obsessed with her and whatever you did drove her away and honestly? You’re not just a creepy drug dealer, you’re a pedophile, Frank.” Frank of course would get violent and you have two choices. Rewind and call the police or let Chloe shoot Frank and afterwords Max calls to animal services to protect Pompidou and give him a new home. Either you get the client book off of Frank’s dead body or you get it after the cops arrest Frank. Either way you get rid of a predator. Sorry, not sorry. I have no sympathy for people who prey on children.

Warren romance path. Instead of Warren appearing drunk, Warren waits for Max and awaits her on the dance floor. Max takes Warren to dance with and it's like a moment of peace or like the scene of Alex dancing with Duckie. It ends with Max and Warren kissing and Max taking a picture to capture the moment forever.

Continuing the Victoria friendship path. At the party, Victoria says, she's late, but she's happy Max is there. Max fills her in on what her day was like. Victoria is proud she and Chloe stood up to David and Joyce and that Kate is doing well. Max warns Victoria about Nathan. and as they part ways, Victoria hugs Max and tells her to be safe and call her if she or Chloe needs anything. But instead of going to Jefferson, Victoria goes to the hospital to visit Kate. As part of a culmination of your choices in the relationship with Victoria, you can encourage her to go and visit Kate to apologize in person. It wouldn't even have to be an extra scene, just part of the ending montage to an episode showing Victoria knocking on Kate's door and Kate opening it and inviting her inside. Maybe this could have been what happens to Victoria instead of ending up in the Dark Room. So if you do well enough to befriend her and she accepts your warning, she goes to see Kate and is spared being kidnapped by Jeffershit. if she doesn't accept your warning, she ends up in the DR. Would have been nice and felt more rewarding than what we got! Also? Kate would tell Victoria about Max's warning, meaning both Kate and Victoria would survive the storm!

We are given the opportunity to enter a photo for the Everyday Hero Contest. We enter at the last minute as Jefferson would give Max the opportunity. So Max with Kate’s permission, Kate would let Max take a photo of her in the hospital. Which wins the Everyday Hero Contest. Max gives an inspiring speech about how everyone can be a hero and that Kate has always inspired her, how much she loves Kate and that she hopes that Kate knows that she is loved by everyone in Blackwell and everyone would cheer Max on. This would also give Jefferson the means and opportunity to drug Max. It honestly works better than Jefferson magically appearing at the Junkyard with no explanation(and it never being brought up).

Episode 5

We are given the choice to save Nathan or let Jefferson kill him. Cut dialogue indicates there was something more meant for Nathan in the final episode. Jefferson says this to Max “Like you Max, I… am a camera. And like some cultures believe I’m going to use my camera. To capture… your… soul. Now take a break. I need to deal with Nathan first. Don’t worry, our session is just… getting started." I think Max could’ve helped Nathan in the dark room, to owe her the favor, Nathan would help Max.

Since I didn't have Chloe killed in Episode 4, Chloe and David would've worked together to save Max. Max and Chloe rush to diner to save Joyce, while also to use Warren's picture to go back in time. While at the diner we get a chance for Max to confess her feelings for Chloe and to tell Joyce while she approves.

While on the journey to the Lighthouse before the Nightmare world kicks in, we are given the choice to save everyone in the diner or leave everyone behind. After you save everyone at the diner, Chloe asks if they should double back to the hospital to save Kate and Victoria, but Max insists the hospital is so far from the storm and they'd be safer there anyway

Third ending. Sacrifice Max. Max screams no, Nathan freaks out and shoots Max. David subdues Nathan and Max is rushed to the hospital. Inspired by this comic and video

An addition to the endings. I wish we could have seen the last entry in Max's journal after she saved Chloe or Arcadia Bay. It would give one last glimpse into her thoughts, as well as clarify the endings a bit more. Also not really a choice, but an addition to the Bae ending. I'd make this ending twice as long, and the extra 5 minutes would be scenes following each other over the next few years. Show how Max and Chloe head to Seattle to visit Max's parents. Show how they help each other cope with trauma (like Chloe comforting Max when she wakes up from nightmares, or Max supporting Chloe at Joyce's funeral, or how they grieve every October 11). Show how Max doesn't give up on becoming a photographer, and Chloe is there to encourage her to follow her dreams. Show how they begin a romantic relationship (including the kiss this ending deserves) if you romanced Chloe. End it on a positive note as Max and Chloe buy the RV and go traveling like they always wanted to, and the last shot is Max and Chloe smiling at each other before hitting the road (as in the original Bae ending). Also among a few shots we might see Max and Chloe hanging out with Kate and Victoria - the former would be if you saved Kate, and the latter would be if you were nice to Victoria. and Nathan appearing if you saved him. What we'd see with Nathan is Nathan in a blue jacket like he has in the alternate timeline to reflect his new change in behavior and redemption. Hugging Victoria, apologizing to Kate, Max and Chloe. Hugging Victoria, Max and Kate and shaking Chloe's hand. I'm tempted to say he could've been in the Brody role in LIS 2, since he kind of fits Brody, cause Brody's line about his family having money but no soul would fit a Nathan after surviving the storm. It would have made this ending more complete, it wouldn't have required their cameos in the sequel, and already in 2015 it would have disproved the theories that death would continue to haunt Chloe/another storm would happen. Addition to the Bay Ending. I like to think it would be a collection of the montages we already got and Chloe’s funeral. But more. We’d see Max dealing with Chloe’s loss, her grief, but ultimately showing Max living her life and moving on. Show that Max still misses Chloe, but show her living her life. And just show Max living her best life with Warren, Kate, Brooke, Dana, Daniel, Stella and Alyssa. Even show montage of a friendship with Victoria. Show Max having a tea date with Kate. Show Max Goin Ape with Warren. Max doing photoshoots with Victoria and shopping dates with Victoria, Courtney and Taylor. Max doing group projects and games with Warren, Kate, Brooke, Stella, Alyssa, and Daniel. Max being Dana’s official photographer. And show Max and her friends graduating Blackwell and living their lives in Arcadia Bay. We just needed to see that despite losing Chloe, Max is okay and that while she will hold onto the memories of Chloe, she can live. The final scene is Max and Warren visiting the Lighthouse. The Blue Butterfly appears and it touches Max and as the Butterfly flies away, Max says "Goodbye Chloe as Warren holds onto Max and shares a kiss at the Lighthouse."

[agentrouka-blog]

Dany fan here: I think other Dany fans think Jonsas are over the top with Dany hate because of pol!Jon. I follow many Jonsas because I’m perfectly fine with Jonsa. It’s not for me but I see the vision. That said I’m a bit of an unusual Dany fan in the sense that I’m a big fan of the Meereenese Knot essays and think the interpretation of Dany presented there is pretty spot on. I personally think Dany has a good heart but that circumstance and experience and terrible coping mechanisms have led her to act in villainous ways and whether or not a character is a villain is determined by their actions regardless of whatever goodness is in their heart. But anyway I do not like the pol!Jon theory. I think it’s out of character for Jon and needlessly cruel to Dany. I think it’s possible that he ultimately kills her and that could be fine and I don’t reject that theory, but I think the idea of Jon deceiving and sexually abusing Dany and then killing her for the sake of Sansa is what Dany fans think of when they think of over the top hate because they assume every Jonsa shipper also believes in pol!Jon.

I do understand why people thought Jon was deceiving Dany in the show though because their relationship was just so poorly executed and Kit and Emilia had no chemistry on screen. Imagine fucking up your show’s romance so badly that people think the script confirming that the love was mutual must have been tampered with.

Hi there!

(I think Dany is a compelling tragic villain, and it's lovely seeing someone loving her for it!)

I do think that pol!Jon (under duress, esentially) is a not unreasonable theory that grew out of the way the show presented their relationship. If there was sexual abuse I think it's fair to say it was in the hands of the more powerful party, though.

That said, I don't see it happening that way in the books at all and I think all characters will be better off for it. I agree it wouldn't feel right.

Certainly not in a punitive "you thought he would love you but he really loves Sansa, now die!!!" way. That cheapens jonsa as much as it cheapens the complexity of the conflict between Dany and Jon.

It's just a deeply uninteresting way to explore their existing conflict or their respective strengths. Not to be a hater but it's not exactly riveting literature watching Dany be manipulated by Daario and it's unlikely to be more so in a repeat performance with Jon who isn't even her type. Same as watching Jon go through a repeat of the abusive Ygritte plotline would be less than compelling.

We'll have instances of romantic manipulation. Littlefinger is practically begging Sansa to use his own obsession against him, and Arya gives us a preview when she lures Raff to his death wearing "Mercy's" face. That's been set up since the first book, and it works as a satisfying response to the way everyone has been telling Sansa how weak and simple she is. It's very personal, very steeped in their respective histories, very poetic.

But for Jon and Dany I think we can expect something more universal and even-handed than that. They are both at varying points manipulative and earnest, highly clever or unexpectly outmaneuvered. And neither will be in this conflict all alone and without advice. Not to mention, we have both of their POVs and watching one just miss all the clues of the other manipulating them would be flat. This only ever works with one POV withheld. The show tried that with Jon Snow live on the screen, to disastrous results. No way is that GRRM's plan.

I'd rather watch two clever adversaries play a big game of chess. And given GRRM's love for that game, I am certain it's also what he would prefer to write.

[genericpuff]

I'm not sure if you've answered this question before but what were some of the things that made you interested in Lore Olympus in the past and at what point did you lose interest?

I adored the art in the beginning, and just like, the really warm-feeling romance that just had me feeling so giddy reading it. There were some red flags in the beginning like the age gap, but I kinda fell for the same mindset of "well they're gods so what does it matter" (obviously I can't in good faith use that argument anymore because if the age gap didn't matter then it either wouldn't exist or wouldn't be brought up in the first place lmao but it took me a while to realize that).

Now, to be fair, LO was also one of my first introductions to webtoons as a format, prior to that I had read mostly manga and left-to-right indie webcomics (i.e. comics that were hosted on their own site) and I was still in the early years of my own development as a writer and artist (I still feel like I'm early in that development tbh) so of course there were undoubtedly a lot of obvious flaws that went over my head (and I was younger and inexperienced so I wasn't as critical of what media I was watching / reading as I am now) but that's been half the fun of catching them now - it's given me a lot more perspective and helped me hone my own skills in my writing by analyzing what's wrong with LO and brainstorming on how those problems can be avoided.

But then there was the Act of Wrath plotline and I was completely sold on it being gold. Anyone who's read my original work knows how much of a SUCKER I am for "dark alter ego" plotlines, I eat that shit up like junk food. But what I like about the dark alter ego tropes is when they're used to explore the subconscious, question one's morals and true identity, etc. That was what I was hoping for and expecting with the AoW plotline in LO - that her "dark self" was gonna be a reflection of how she felt "held back" by her circumstances in the Mortal Realm, and her wrath being something she could use for retribution (in a "do no harm but take no shit" kinda way). Especially with how naive and innocent she was in the beginning, I loved the idea of her slowly coming to terms with her "darker" side and learning not to suppress her emotions until they had nowhere else to go and exploded (which was how I interpreted the AoW).

So when it didn't do that, or even explore an ounce of nuance regarding her relationship with her wrath, I was very disappointed to say the least. When Eris was revealed to be the one who "blessed" her with wrath, that was when the rose colored glasses started to fall off and I realized "wait, does Rachel not have an actual plan for this whole Kore vs. Persephone thing???" And now her wrath is literally just there to... give her the power to bully people?? It just feels so disheartening to see such potential squandered.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not gonna chastise a story if it doesn't go exactly where I want it to go, there would be no fun in that anyways (and that's what fanfiction is for lmao). But when a story is leaving very interesting but connectable breadcrumbs that are VERY clearly leading you somewhere and then just... doesn't, that's when it's disappointing and unsatisfying. LO feels like a "creator vs. the reader" story in the worst way possible, where it's constantly leaving breadcrumbs, getting pissed when the audience "figures it out", so then it overcorrects and tries to "subvert" itself to keep the readers "on their toes"... but the problem is that all it really does is punish the readers for paying attention and investing themselves in the story by giving them a worse story. It's like Rachel's getting mad at people for figuring out a story that she's writing and hinting towards.

And this has been going on for YEARS now, it's like a Shepard tone where it sounds like it keeps getting higher and higher in pitch but then doesn't actually resolve so your brain is just scrambling trying to figure out what in the world it could be "building up to".

There's nothing. It's not building up to anything. It's just constantly putting down new plot threads that are slightly altered versions of previous plot threads and expecting you to keep following along while it makes a mess of itself. It feels like you're going somewhere but you're actually still just running in place. It's just Rachel never learning how to progress past the middle school writing level of "and then this happened and then this happened and then this happened". Not only is it disorganized writing, but it's just... it's so boring. Nothing's exciting or interesting anymore when it keeps distracting itself with shiny new plotlines and characters that never get resolved.

It's like when you were a kid and thought "man , when I grow up, I'm gonna eat nothing but chocolate cake and ice cream every day forever!" and then you get older and you realize you were being silly because eating nothing but chocolate cake and ice cream every day 1.) isn't good for you and doesn't feel good, and 2.) the appeal and novelty of it wears off if you can have it any time you want, it doesn't feel as special anymore as it did when you were a kid and having those things was a treat.

To compare this back to LO, none of its "reveals" feel like treats anymore, they feel like just another half-assed attempt to keep people interested. It's clickbait.

And don't get me wrong, you CAN totally subvert the breadcrumbs you put down for your audience and go in a completely different direction than where the audience was expecting, but it takes a shitload of skill and thought to do it well. Attack on Titan is one of the best recent examples of a story appearing to completely throw out its original script halfway through, only for that script to actually still be relevant in a very complex and thought out way. Especially when there ARE hints towards the big "twist" that make you go back and rewatch it and realize "WAIT, THEY'VE BEEN GIVING US THE ANSWERS ALL THIS TIME?!?!"

(it would be TWO MORE FUCKING SEASONS before this ending would make sense, that's fucking GENIUS foreshadowing and in the CREDITS SEQUENCE LIKE ?? IT'S SO BLINK AND YOU'LL MISS IT HOLY SHIT-)

Evidently Rachel does not have that skill and is not willing to put in that thought; maybe she could some day, but I don't think she's learning it on the job as well as she thinks she is.

And it's disappointing as fuck because it could have been so much better than this. Rachel is literally the only one getting in her own way of LO being something truly great.

[diamondcitydarlin]

i think probably the worst part of the whole thing is that I just don't really care anymore, the investment I had at the end of season 1 just straight up no longer exists. no, it's not just bc a blorbo got killed off (and there's a lot of reasons to be angry about that), it's mainly bc most of the characters at this point feel like hollow shells of who they were a season ago, including the stede x ed pairing as a whole (which I really just don't care about anymore at all, sorry). and no it's not bc 'Izzy got all the development and there was no time for anyone else' like of course there was time for everyone else, provided that they hadn't opened the season on all those characters making 180 character changes with no real explanation, provided they hadn't overloaded the damn season with nonsense that goes nowhere. JimxOlu was my OTP after StedexEd in season one, both of them were some of my faves, and not only did neither of them even really resemble who they were in s1, their relationship which was of such great importance in the former just suddenly...is something else now. Not people in love, but 'friends who have fucked once lol' and are wingmen for each other now because...??? Oh but Jim's dating Archie who...*checks notes* was in a Snake Cult? I think? That's about all we get on her, apart from the fact that she likes making out with Jim I guess. And I guess Zheng can't just be a powerful woman character that exists in this narrative without a romance of her own, so let's just toss her together with Olu and never explore or explain that with any kind of depth. Jim has neither trust issues anymore nor do they have ANY interest or investment in their revenge scheme or the Siete Gallos (REMEMBER THAT PLOTLINE?? REMEMBER?? APPARENTLY THE WRITERS DON'T) they're just kind of goofy all the time now for no reason. Olu's leadership arc? His being a confidant to Stede? Where the fuck did any of that go? Are they all a polycule or are they all just separate couple friends? IDK WHO CARES THIS IS HOW IT IS NOW I GUESS. Like, why am I supposed to care about any of that? It doesn't even feel like the characters I watched before.

And StedexEd. Jfc there's so much to say that other people have said better but the constant bringing up of conflicts, breakups, and then immediately resolving those issues with heartfelt reunions/kissing as if that's supposed to be sufficient got really old for me after awhile. The lack of explaining how their 'whim-prone' romance to this point was bad, the lack of explaining how they reconcile their different goals was also bad, but oh they can just go RUN AN INN NOW! Yay happily ever after! ????? "Ed, you've got family" which he immediately leaves to go try another life path he's probably going to suck at and hate WOW so romance. Like either figure it out or break up for good, it just makes them an obnoxious toxic couple who never seem to communicate or bother to try but are supposed to be the one we love the most and are rooting for. And that sucks, because I loved them once! GARBAGE!

There's only so much blame one can put on external factors for this. I worked in production once, I edited scripts and was a go-between for notes and writers, and this is the exact kind of thing I would've felt compelled to point out; we only have x amount of time and x amount of episodes to properly tell these stories, we know this, so maybe lets be realistic about what we can fit in here and do justice and what we can't. Maybe let's not just throw every fucking thing we think of at the wall to see what sticks while completely ignoring/retconning character traits and stories we set up in season 1. But nah, that's what happened!

Like, what is there to watch for at this point if s3 gets greenlit? I fail to find anything that I'd care about seeing continued, even the peripheral characters like Frenchie and Wee John and Roach, whom I also loved before and still do but barely did anything, so I guess I can tune in to watch them do more of nothing? Idk man it sucks when it's not just 'wow that was bad I hope next season is better' but instead 'wow that was so boring and incohesive I have no more interest or emotional investment in this to continue'

[tangents-within-tangents]

Local Ace overthinks headcanon and shipping culture

Happy ace week, my friends! Imma be posting some aspec hc's this week so I felt the need to overexplain my personal stance on orientation headcanons and such

To start, as with any and all fandom things: to each their own. People can do whatever they want, and (for the most part) I can choose what I do or don't engage with. I know that hc and shipping and stuff is mostly for fun, or for seeking/creating representation, no hate to anyone who does it and enjoys it.

But also sometimes things can be problematic and I can still be bothered by those things. Even things that are 'just for fun' or 'not for you' can impact and reflect our views and behaviors, so it's still worth speaking about.

Aro/ace-spec identities are really diverse and complex, and we're really underrepresented as is. We have historically and chronically been plagued by problematic misconceptions and tropes, both in canon representation (or lack thereof) and fanon mindsets. Some of the main issues to be aware of with this topic specifically:

The majority of (sometimes unintentional) representation being non-human characters (like aliens and robots) implying that sex/romance = humanity and/or a fulfilling life. (Here's some video essays that touch on this: X X)

Related stereotype issues like racist or ableist de-sexualization and infantilization of certain groups like Asian men, physically disabled people, or people with autism. (It's an intersectionality thing bc yes those people can be aro/ace as well but it's still complicated) (more video essays! X X)

Common erasure of historically aspec characters in favor of allo plotlines bc that's "more interesting/realistic". Or ignoring canonically established aspec characters in favor of allo shipping (often excused by the fact that some aro/ace people do have sex/relationships, which is true but the complexities and nuances are often ignored and there's lots of double standards) (Here's some posts that touch on this: X X X)

Amatonormativity's over emphasis on sex/romance as a fundamental and necessary part of life, which is often reflected in how media and shipping culture are generally allo-centric, and it can just get pretty pervasive at times (note: we aren't a monolith obv, some aro/ace people enjoy it and participate too, but others don't and it is hard to avoid) X X

So while I know there's lots of reasons for shipping and headcanoning, and for the most part there's nothing wrong with it and people aren't trying to do these things, there are still issues that exist. Honestly seeing posts talking about these things has been really validating for me bc it let me know like yeah this is a problem other's have noticed too and I don't have to just accept it.

So with respect and awareness of nuance, ship and headcanon however you want. The rest of this post is about my own personal preferences and such. I'm not necessarily trying to persuade anyone here, I just have some thoughts I want to put into words:

For me personally, when it comes to characters' sexualities/gender identities/etc, I prefer just to stick to whatever is established in canon (or in confirmed intentional coding), and, if nothing is specified, headcanons that are based in canon evidence (more like theories I guess, as opposed to reimaginings or straight-up projection that knowingly ignores parts of canon. Which is fine and fun if that's what you like but to me there is a distinction). This is because:

1: While fandom culture is all about freedom and creativity, I do think it's important in this day and age to recognize actual canon representation and strive towards that because that is what will reach more people and have impact (and personally I think that writers' intentions should actually be given more thought/value)

2: I think that shipping/hc/fandom culture in general tends to perpetuate amatonormativity (specifically in devaluing/erasing friendship and non-romantic love), and sometimes leads to harmful parasocial queer speculation in real life (though again, I know that's not the intention but it's still a thing).

3: Generally, unless it’s explored as a part of a reimagined fic or something, just saying a random character is aspec (or whatever identity) when they did not present that way at all in the actual media doesn't really help me feel seen.

For example, I've seen a lot of people headcanon Mabel Pines as aromantic and that really threw me off bc in the show she is obsessed with romance. Like if other's see themselves in her that is great I won't stop you (the idea is that her crushes are comphet, which is not something I personally struggled with, and maybe I could see it if I rewatched the show with that in mind) but when I watched the show, I specifically did not connect with or relate to Mabel BECAUSE of my ace identity (yeah this post was mainly about her lol) so it just doesn't do much for me to claim her as aspec, in fact it feels counterproductive.

Sometimes it can feel really tacked on too, like 'well it's not confirmed that this character has sex so they could be ace', or 'some ace people do have sex so they can still be ace.' And like sure yes they could be but often it's like a kid show or something so none of the characters' sex lives are relevant or explicitly confirmed. Just bc they aren't not ace doesn't mean that they are, or that saying they are is meaningful if the character/story doesn't actually speak to anything related to the ace identity or experience. (This can happen with canon characters too, like Sponge Bob being asexual means absolutely nothing to me, especially since I get the sense that the creator said that more in a 'sea sponges reproduce asexually' type of way :/ )

So basically, in terms of representation I prefer the theory/interpretation type of headcanons that have supporting evidence of some kind, because that evidence is what makes me see myself in a character and feel represented in some way by them. So that's the type of headcanons I'll be posting, and that's why I'll be discussing evidence and explanations, even though I know plenty of people have fun and find value in just claiming identities without any of that.

Another thing I feel the need to overexplain is kinda the reverse of that. I think it's important to recognize that a character does not have to be a certain identity for you to see yourself in them. Like that sense of relatability and representation is still valid even if they aren't, and I think it's good to leave space for that ambiguity.

This is coming mostly from the fact that I have always valued platonic relationships (between any and all genders) long before I ever knew I was ace. I've always wished that was better normalized and represented in media and real life. I think that is just as important as queer representation, and sometimes they can counteract each other.

Like yes Min and Ryan could be gay and if that's what the writers were going for despite restrictions, or if people see themselves in that, great! But I would also love for this story to give a close friendship this much narrative value for once.

Merida does not HAVE to be aro/ace (or lesbian) to not want to be forced into marriage with a stranger at the age of 16 (in fact she specially says "I'm not ready" and "not yet"). But regardless, aspects of her story are still really relatable to us and applicable to living in amatonormative society.

Mako and/or Raleigh do not NEED to be aspec for this glorious refreshing no-romo moment to happen (nor does one need to be aspec to appreciate it)

And maybe claiming them as aro/ace could even undercut the power of this platonic bond (like saying the only way they could not be interested in each other is if they are not interested in anyone (same if you said they are gay, as if that's the only possible way for a man and woman not to be attracted to each other)). But it's still a moment lots of us aspecs love because platonic relationships AND aro/ace characters do go hand in hand and BOTH are so rarely portrayed in media.

So these ideas also play into my preferences, and I want to acknowledge that my headcanons don't have to be definitive (which like I know that is normal amongst fandom culture anyway) but are more about pointing out aspects we can see ourselves in and relate to, especially in a media landscape that is so lacking in representation and understanding of our identities.

[gayofthefae]

A fight like Mike and Will's in season 3 is actually very common. If you've watched the new season of Bridgerton, you'll see it as well and it's used for the exact same function: to shift a power dynamic by breaking out of idolizing your crush.

In season 2, Mike was in a sort of caretaking and protective role over Will. This isn't a bad thing but it also isn't exactly equal. With that, in the story itself, Will didn't see enough of Mike's flaws. This is the contrast to what is often complained about in Mike and El's more immature love: conflicts like this are used to shift from infatuation to love, loving someone with their flaws instead of being blind to them. In saying "you're being an asshole and you need to stop, I am in the right in this situation and deserve better" you are acknowledging their flaws and positioning yourself as not dependent on the idea of them. Then you can come back by choice (the romantic theme in the show) and as more of equals, the audience feeling secure in the idea that you, despite historically idolizing that person, would call them out if you had to.

Mike and El don't have that, not until season 4 at least - and that pacing is too late for their story. I thought they were having it in season 3 on a first watch and that it would expose those flaws and move past them, but they remained issues in season 4. By season 4, El is secure in her independence and is choosing Mike with the acknowledgement of his flaws, but Mike is still idolizing El. The idolization isn't just an issue as has been discussed relative to "superheroes", it's used frequently across romance as an issue to be overcome. He sees her as out of his league as opposed to seeing them as equals and until he sees them as equals, they can't have the relationship they need to have. So that is their season 5 arc. Their final arc will be him seeing her as human so he can actually love her like she wants him to, inclusive of her flaws and not ignoring them - because when someone ignores your flaws, you start to worry that they're ignoring them in order to keep loving you because they know if they acknowledged them they would see you as a monster.

But it is also of note that this is a trope used consistently in preparation for a love story or romantic arc, to get the audience in the mindset to properly root for them - NOT a climax itself. You'll notice these fights between Mike and Will happened early in seasons with time to spare for their plots. The same seemed to be true for Mike and El, except they didn't use that time to resolve the issue the same.

Mike and Will fought at the beginning of season 3 to clear the slate, actually - of any pre-existing feeling of inequality or unrealistic perceptions in the eyes of the audience that they would be concerned for the characters over. The did that knowing they had time to spare and that the plotline they were setting up hadn't started yet.

At the BEGINNING of their romantic buildup in season 4 Will calls Mike out explicitly. They are on even footing and willing to tell it like it is and expect better. Then they do the romance. El believes she deserves her treatment and Mike sees himself as needing to say exactly what she wants in order to keep her, something he is desperate to do because she is so out of his league and he doesn't want to waste the opportunity. They both have conflicts but they demonstrate very different things about the characters and their relationships to each other.

Mike and El love the idea of each other and they need to love each other. Mike and Will used to love the idea of each other but had a year of loving each other before the romance came into play. All of their decisions are being shown to the audience as sound of mind and informed, even when impulsive or out of the loop. Mike and Will find equal footing before starting their romance plot. Mike and El told their entire love story and more first. That screams - "we do not want you to trust our characters' choices as informed and self-aware".

Mike and El were cute at first because they were innocent. But innocence is also naivete, and audiences aren't meant to trust decisions made by the naive.

Will has a heartbreaking scene where he physically destroys his innocence. But he also isn't naive anymore. And the audience needed that in order to trust him.

Lucas and Max face the severity of her depression and come out the other side less naive. That's why they got a second love story. One innocent and one mature.

I started to trust El when she broke up with Mike and after her dad died, didn't fully trust her with Mike until the end of season 4. I still don't trust Mike with El. At best, they would need to quickly break Mike's view of El then match Lucas and Max in giving them a second love story (something I've mentioned they could have done in season 4 if they had broken them up more similarly to Lucas and Max, giving a conflict more like Mike and Will's to him and El), now more mature.

We NEED a mature love story. We need one for all of them. Lucas and Max got one because they had one innocent and and now got one mature. Mike and Will had an innocent relationship but their love story was allowed to be entirely mature. Mike and El had got an innocent love story. And nothing else. They got more plots, but never any that matured them, and as they grow out of the word "innocent", they become naive, untrustable.

dldr: To quote Lucas Sinclair in his mature relationship from middle school, "I see you". Every couple was too innocent to see each other so deeply for a while. But they saw each other before either falling in love or falling back into love, because after truly seeing someone, you fall in love with them - even if for the second time. Mike and El still haven't seen each other, and they don't have the time nor the audience's energy to fall in love a fourth time finally seeing clearly.

[psychicsolanum]

TUA S4 SPOILERS

I have so many thoughts after finishing it.

yet I feel so empty lmao.

I'm gonna put my disorganised rambles under a read more if anyone is interested and/or wants to scream with me about it

umbrella academy is one of, if not, my favourite show ever made for its storytelling and unique art direction yes, but mainly its characters and their dynamic, like everyone who loves this show.

i love the fluffy sibling relationships and how their trauma affects how they live and behave with one another. everything is built off of the characters!! it's never revolved around love interests unless it made sense and I really loved that. patch (mostly), dave, ray, lila and even Delores tied into the main cast's arcs and pushed the plot forward in a way that I thought was really satisfying and didn't take away too much from the family dynamics that the show focuses on.

so why did they choose these random romantic relationships this season to focus on? I thought the twist about Ben's death was actually great and unexpected personally, (and i loved seeing the kids go out on a mission; i always wanted more flashbacks to their childhood) but to boil it down to a virus that made him fall in love with someone he just met? that's so boring and so unlike anything they've done before imo!

also what happened to sloane lmao. I know basically nothing about behind the scenes stuff but what was the point of having her and Luther get together last season if they had no plans, I'm guessing they must have and the actress didn't come back?

and I feel like hargreeves' grand plan that caused everything in this show to happen feels so anticlimactic now. I mean I guess it literally meant nothing now. this feels like life is strange all over again but worse lol.

Klaus! thank god he exists in this series. what a breath of fresh air any time he was on screen. i never thought i'd be so relieved they threw him into another side quest lmao thank god he wasnt burdened by the main plot too much. I don't mean to say I'm completely happy with what they did with him, they started this arc of like, not letting his powers define him and finish his transformation that he's been continuously going through since s1, but because the show ends with everyone killing themselves it just kind of fizzles out? still love him and his careless whimsy, i thought the way he got his powers back and the scene following it was really good. as always wish they explored it moreeeeeee ughhhhh. Omg they never did anything more with the void or God either. I loved that stuff :(((((((((((

I cant even think about the five and lila stuff without getting mad so I'm just gonna say: fuck you for that. what the fuck were you thinking. why. why. why. in my head five is aroace and moves on with his life, maybe takes up golfing idk. who cares. anything else. HE LITERALLY SAID "I WANNA FUCKING KILL HIM" ABOUT DIEGO IN THE LAST EPISODE?!?!?!?!? and he hid the way home to her children from her for months???? I like the very end of the plotline where it explained founder five, very Loki, but that could have been accomplished without the 7 year romance...............

I think the 6 year time jump reallllyyyyy did not help this season at all. it just led to all the conflict with Allison being resolved instantly and her only story being the one klaus is living with. also wtf was going on with her powers why did they just give her telekinesis thats way more boring than her rumours! I like the tiny bits we got with klaus and allison but it was so short! with the time jump we missed so much development, most of them feel like completely different characters for no real reason. the only thing we know about luther is that he became a stripper, and viktor owns a bar in canada i guess??? these guys were most of the main plot in season 1 and they were so one dimentional this season. i feel like we barely got to get to know Claire or Diego and lilas kids which would be fine if the rest of the plot going on with the other characters was good and engaging, which i felt it wasn't. I don't even know the kids names apart from Grace, which is very cute ill give them that.

The show ended with the main cast doing a group suicide. ceasing to exist. none of them getting to heal.

I'm sorry I don't want to be a hater and I really do hope that some people loved this season but im just so sad lol. i liked the first couple eps and I really love these characters, judging by twitter I'm not alone in my disappointment though lmao. what was the potential s5 gonna look like?!?!?

I loved klaus and Allison a lot and we got little snippets of greatness, I want a spinoff of them now!!!!!!!

I'm excited to hear other people's opinions, maybe I'll see other perspectives and feel a little better haha.

klaus 4ever 🖤☂️🖤

[dc-al-coda]

watched Bloom Into You a lil while ago & it was super adorable and melted my heart. The aquarium date was the cutest thing, it made me so happy I could cry. Also that ending theme is a total bop. I haven't read the manga, just saw the 13-episode series - still, it makes so much sense that the author started out writing Touhou doujinshi.

Considering the show on its own, without the manga to add context, it feels kinda incomplete. The characters have complicated discussions about romance that never really get resolved. It's most glaring with Maki: a character who reads as basically aroace, but doesn't really get enough screen time to exist outside the context of Yuu and Touko's relationship. But Yuu also expresses feelings that feel aroace-adjacent, spending so much time talking about having never felt love with anyone.

The story has drawn some criticism about how those aspects of the characters are handled, and I'd agree that if it were fully about exploring aroace identity then it didn't do a great job. But, that's not really what it's about - it's about the particular relationship between the two main characters, and their understandings of what "love" means.

From the very beginning of the show, Yuu talks about how she "knows what love means", basing her understanding on music and stories. She talks about how love feels like fireworks, like floating and reaching the stars. Because of this understanding, she then believes that the feelings she has for Touko aren't love, because she doesn't feel those specific things. What interests me, though, is the potential that Yuu might be wrong about love - or at least, it isn't as universally consistent of a feeling as she makes it out to be. Maybe "love" isn't some explosion of passion, but something more down-to-earth. At least, it feels that way for me.

In fact, I think the questioning and uncertainty, and the attempt to understand it all, is the driving force of the show. That's why the central plotline is about the student council holding a stage show. Both Touko and Yuu find themselves trying to follow pre-existing "scripts" for their lives. Touko tries to follow the script of what she though her sister was, and Yuu wants to follow the script of how love manifests. Both of them are challenged to move past those scripts -The show makes a point of how Touko's view of her sister isn't based on reality, but her own perception. Similarly, I've come to realize as an aro person that "love", as Yuu and I understood it, was simply thrust upon us by the world and shrunk the possibility space of how we could be. I had to work to break that script in my own life.

The show never explicitly states this idea - I wish that Yuu had been given some more explicit realizations along the same lines as Touko. I do think the final episode leans in that direction, though. Especially when Yuu says "People are self-contradictory. It's normal." She claims things are "normal" a few times throughout, but this instance feels the most genuine. Before, when Yuu said something was "normal", she meant that it was normal in the understood script of the world. But finally, in the aquarium, she makes a claim about normalcy just based on her own observations. The following scene, where Yuu and Touko improvise a scene from their stageplay, really enhances the feeling of accepting uncertainty.

If we don't read the show as being about a specific idea of "love", or the specific identities of the characters, then the whole thing feels more consistent. The plot of the stageplay even directly parallels Touko's arc: the main character, played by Touko, doesn't know her own identity and feels forced to choose one ("subtle" is not a word I would use to describe this show). Yuu is so determined to figure out how to love Touko, but how can she love someone who has such a tenuous grasp on her own personhood?

Maybe that's why Yuu and Touko are so compelling as a pair of characters - Yuu basically knows herself without knowing love, but Touko knows love while not knowing herself. Sayaka works as a contrast here - she knows how love feels, and knows herself, but Touko doesn't find love with her. Yuu and Touko both become interested in, and want something from each other, but their goals also contrast. Yuu wants to learn more about the experience of love with Touko. Meanwhile, Touko seems perfectly prepared (if not exactly happy) to just bask in the feelings she knows. She tells Yuu multiple times not to fall in love with her, because she doesn't like herself. In spite of this, Yuu's motivation shifts throughout the show - from trying to fall in love, to helping Touko come to terms with herself. The relationship feels a lot less one-sided once this shift happens.

The balance is important because initially, when Touko is expressing her feelings, she comes on REALLY strong. This has been noted by critics, and it's hard not to read Touko's constant attempts to touch and kiss Yuu early on as a little pushy. Especially when Yuu makes it explicit that the feelings aren't mutual. It's a risky tone for the show, and lasts a surprisingly long time - even up to the athletics day. And when Touko says stuff like "I don't know if I'll be able to hold back", it's kind of a red flag. Still, a lot of effort is made to have the characters discuss what is okay, and Yuu is able to establish some boundaries which Touko respects. By the end of the show, the characters have a much better understanding of each other, and they both seem mutually invested in a relationship of some kind.

As cute as the characters are together, the relationship doesn't seem to me like one that'll last very long. It feels more like a whirlwind romance that sweeps these girls up in newly discovered feelings. I think it does end up lasting a long time in the manga, which likely tracks with the added context. But even if the relationship does or doesn't end, it'd still be meaningful to both girls. That's why I like that the show ends on an inconclusive note. Yuu and Touko never form an explicit relationship, no identities are ever explicitly realized, and we never even see the stageplay that constitutes a majority of the plot. It works, though, because this is a story about a journey instead of a destination. Just watching these characters try to parse their complicated emotions and relationships (and their queer experiences) is captivating. It can be a little cringe-inducing to watch high school girls going through awkward phases, but that's ultimately what makes it relatable and utterly adorable as the characters make mistakes, learn, and grow. Through the journey, the characters find ways to bloom into themselves.

Anyway, thanks for reading

[ink-splotch]

Hi!!! I just wanted to tell you that seeing your new game reminded me that Stay? exists and that it's soooo good. It's been a while since I played it, so I don't remember the details, but I do remember being amazed at how much variation there was, how every detail was perfectly woven into the story, and how human the characters felt despite us not getting that much time to know them. Plus, I personally love war plots, and yours DID NOT disappoint. I also really loved how the different "career paths" impacted your story, and just how many different details and paths you could get depending on what you did at every step of the way. I don't know, I just remember liking it a lot and feeling really accomplished once I managed to beat it.

Also, out of curiosity, who are all the LIs? In my lifetimes, I remained pretty faithful to Myka (love of my life, she was so great!!!), but I imagine Esteban, Jo, Suzette and Gemma to be romanceable. Did I miss someone else?

Another question I have is: how did you get the idea for the game? And by that I mean, what was the inspiration for the plot and all the different characters + why did you even decide to make a CYOA in the first place?

Because, again, it was incredibly good and I'd like to know which stars do I have to thank for it existing.

Anyways, once I'm really excited to play More a Haunting than a History, and I just know it's gonna be as great as Stay? was!

Thank you so much and have a nice day! ~ 🍪

Hello there! Thanks for writing me. There are five major romanceable characters in Stay?: Myka, Esteban, Jo, Gemma, and Suzette. Technically, there are some minor romanceable NPCs (ex. the different folks you can live your life with in the "fuck off into the hills" ending), but those five are the main gist of it. The main five can also also each be platonic life partners for you, rather than traditional romantic partners, if that's more your style.

Myka is my wife's favorite love interest in Stay? by far, so great taste.

Stay? actually has a very clear origin story for me. My friends and I played Outer Wilds, which I highly highly recommend, and I was so delighted by its balance and structure that I wanted to see if I could make something built on the same bones. I drafted up my @sortinghatchats quiz to get used to the ink system, and then dove into Stay?. It was the most fast/obsessed I've ever put a story on paper (so to speak) and I admit I may still be chasing that high.

I built the basic structure first, and then added on the setting, characters, plot macguffins, details, etc. on top, trying to interweave and connect them. I like how it turned out. The plotline with the southern lands, to be vague for spoilers reasons, was actually a very late addition and I think it, in many ways, is what made the game work for me.

I hope you enjoyed MAHTAH! It's a very different game than Stay?, in some ways; and I'm proud of myself in different ways in terms of what I tried to build there.

[charmwasjess]

22 for Jin-Lo!!!

and then 3 & 17 for Jocasta :D

22) headcanon for Jin Lo!!

JIN-LO RAYCE MY BELOVED!! So, maybe this is a broader head canon than just Jin Lo, but I picture the Temple as almost a magic entity itself - an absolute maze of secret passages, fake doors, hallways that seem to go nowhere, hidden chambers that are used for something specific and then lost for generations and rediscovered. And the Archives being one of the oldest existing parts of the Temple and such an important place, they're some of the most riddled with secrets.

Jin-Lo spent his Padawan years with Jocasta determined to find as many of its secrets as possible, and every so often, when Jocasta thinks he needs a pick-me-up, she just casually reaches over to scratch the nose of one of the busts and a giant secret door opens in one of the bookcases. Jin-Lo's mouth drops. She just laughs. "Enjoy." She'll probably expect to see him again in another few days.

3) NoTP?

I think you meant generally, but I was already thinking about Jocasta for the second half of this, and got mad. :D

This is a funny answer because obviously I ship Dooku and Jocasta in all kinds of various iterations - as a couple, as a polycule with Sifo-Dyas, as friends with benefits… (hell, I might love writing them best as bitter exes in Thunder Answered Back) but I think I would have really hated whatever they were going to do with the love story between them in AotC. Like ughhh, can you imagine how annoying that plot would be for me personally?? First, the 1.0 reheat of the Romance Leads to the Dark Side plotline (already fraught) and how little that makes sense in Dooku's greater story. Also, what it reduces Jocasta to.

Even now, some within the fandom have pinned the Deserving Fall of the Jedi Order on her for being checks notes ah yes, lightly snarky to Obi-Wan that one time, so I can't imagine the hate she would have got for being a female character who has the audacity to exist onscreen taking up plot while being older who bore some "responsibility" for Dooku's fall. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see expanded screentime in AotC for either of those characters, but I shudder to think of the takes.

17) What's a book, movie, or show you think Jocasta would like?

Actually, like Dooku, I think Jocasta reads EVERYTHING. I think her ability to consume books is legendary and she has an opinion on everything from Space BookTok to Palpatine's ghostwritten and highly fictional memoir Sheev: an Understated Courage to poetry and lit crit. She manages to stay on top of this impressive heap of reading despite her Archive responsibilities because she does not sleep.

And yes, ahem, Bride is on her holds list. She makes direct eye contact with the Archive acolyte who hands her the holobook and thanks them politely. She's going to read it in her office over lunchbreak with her salad. Why not?

[onedismay]

For the asks :)

8. Do you prefer to play as male or female Shepard? 9. Share a pic of your favourite Shepard 13. Favourite ME1 squad combo 26. Blue, green, red or fuck you? 59. Favourite NPC? 71. Favourite OST song(s)? 76. What are you hoping for from ME4?

Yay, thank you!

8. Do you prefer to play as male or female Shepard?

Female mainly because I neeeed hairstyles that are longer than 5cm. I also slightly prefer Hale's delivery over Meer's, especially in ME2 when Shep is in her gruff "I just died and this is all bullshit" phase. :D

9. Share a pic of your favourite Shepard

My original gal Jill(ian) Shepard! (Soldier/Spacer/Sole Survivor) She romanced Kaidan on my very first playthrough but in my recent run she's single for now. She's nearly 100% Paragon, the kind who always wants to follow protocol and do everything "right," but then ends up second-guessing her decisions after the fact anyway. Feels like an imposter, and that was before ME2 even happened... Oh boy. Check out her glitchy cutscene-induced bald spot! I might make it canon, actually.

13. Favourite ME1 squad combo

This is hard, I like to mix them up. For gameplay purposes I find Kaidan the most useful, and this is the most shallow reason ever but I love playing dressup with Tali so every time I get new armor for her I HAVE to see it immediately. But Kaidan + Tali is kind of a squishy combo on insanity so in practice I can't often take them both...

26. Blue, green, red or fuck you?

I wanted to put a gun emoji here but I can't find one. When I don't gun, I red because it's the least magical option out of the three.

59. Favourite NPC?

Administrator Anoleis came to mind first so I guess it's him! No matter how I end up handling that plotline it's always a delightful time. Like, even if everything goes amicably, you still come away with the impression that you've ruined his day by merely existing, and I love that. I wanna know what he does on his freetime. How does he relax? Does he? What thoughts bounce around in his head on sleepless nights? Does he have a single friend

71. Favourite OST song(s)?

Leaving Earth (volume alert!) I'm a sucker for these kinds of ultra powerful end of the world tear jerkers.

76. What are you hoping for from ME4?

Answered here!

[s10127470]

My Wolverine and the X-Men Rewrite (Part 2)

Hey guys! I'm back again with Part 2 of my "Wolverine and the X-Men" rewrite, which in that first part, I actually renamed the show "X-Men Destiny" for obvious reasons.

I don't really have of an intro, so we're just gonna get right into it.

Overflow (January 30th, 2009):

This episode is largely the same, but would have a few changes.

-Angel would be in this episode and join the X-Men on their rescue mission to save Storm from The Shadow King. As you probably guessed here, and if you read the first part, I wanted to actually flesh out the romance between these two a lot more. I thought it was pretty interesting in the original series, but could've been a lot better since we only saw it in the episode where Angel gets turned into Archangel.

-We would actually get to the see more of the relationships between each of the X-Men. And most importantly, how they felt about the loss of Jean. Like, we all know that seeing Xavier in a coma hit them hard, but apart from Cyclops, we're never given anything to show how they feel about Jean being gone. But here, we would. I think we would get a flashback scene that would go back to a funeral that was held for Xavier and Jean right after the explosion and right before the team disbanded. During this funeral, just about all of the X-Men would be visibly saddened, showing that they were devastated by the loss of their follow teammate and their longtime mentor. Beast, Angel, Nightcrawler and Shadowcat would all be shedding tears. Wolverine and Forge wouldn't be showing tears, but would still be saddened by all this. And Storm, Iceman, Colossus and especially Cyclops would actually having full-on breakdowns. Back in the present, right as they take off for the mission, it would be Beast and Iceman trying to let Cyclops know instead of Shadowcat, while Forge would be the one asking them why are they even bothering with him. I think this scene would really speak volumes since remember, they've known Cyclops the longest out of everyone here. They know how hard it was for him to lose Jean, since remember, they all made up the original X-Men team.

-And finally, we have the characterization of Storm. While this episode was a great reintroduce for her. This was where she admittedly peaked. Another of the biggest flaws of the original show was how sidelined she was. Like for God's sake, she hardly talked! Here, Storm would be the Storm we all know in love. Confident, regal, and an actually great leader. This would really help Cyclops' character since she would reassure him that he does still have what it takes to be a leader.

Brothers All (February 6th, 2009):

This episode is a wholly originally one to this version of the series.

This would be Colossus's reintroduction episode.

As I mentioned in the first part, he moved back to his family's farm in Russia.

And essentially, Colossus has returned back to how his life was before he joined the X-Men.

One thing I want to show is his town being very appreciative of his powers, since he's been using them to help out around the community.

One thing I really liked about the original show is that they showed something you rarely see in most X-Men media.

The existence of humans who don't absolutely fucking hate mutants.

I figured Colossus' town would be a part of that group.

We also find out that he's been helping his younger sister Illyana hone her mutant powers, which manifested about a month ago.

Speaking of Illyana, she would look how she was planned to for the intended season 2.

(Sorry for the blurry image, this was the best I could find)

She would be about 16 years old and stand at 5'3.

She would be voiced by her recurring VA Tara Strong, as she was planned to for Season 2.

However, Colossus' peaceful life would be interrupted by a visit from The Brotherhood.

Essentially, a plotline I thought of for this version of the series would be having the X-Men recruiting young up-and-coming mutants and keeping them out of the hands of The Brotherhood, who, let's be real, wouldn't exactly have the most well-meaning plans for them.

But back to the plot of this episode, The Brotherhood are here for Illyana and they aren't taking no for an answer.

And just to make sure, they brought some back up.

And that back up is none other than Mikhail Rasputin!

For those who don't know, Mikhail is Colossus' and Illyana's older brother, making his debut in Uncanny X-Men #285 on December 3rd, 1991.

As for this appearances, he looks largely the same as he does in the comics.

Which is this...

As for his voice, he would voiced by Chris Cox.

As for his backstory, it's largely the same as in the comics, but with some notable differences.

Mikhail was once a member of the actual real-life state corporation Roscosmos.

But during a mission, which Mikhail was the pilot of, the shuttle got caught in a mysterious rift.

And when Mikhail woke up, he found himself back on Earth, with the shuttle being destroyed and just about everyone else dead (including his fiance).

As you would expect, this incident made international headlines.

Overcome with a tremendous amount of survivor's guilt, Mikhail left home (having done so not long before Colossus' powers emerged) and hadn't been seen since.

During his time as a lonesome nomad, Mikhail's powers would manifest.

Yep, Mikhail is a mutant like his younger siblings.

He has the ability to manipulate matter and energy on a subatomic level, allowing him to travel between different dimensions in the blink of an eye.

During his travels, Mikhail would often come across headlines about his little brother and his adventures with the X-Men.

And this would be where things take a turn for the worst.

Whenever he came across these headlines, Mikhail would often hear people bringing up how he's his brother and mentioning how embarrassing it must be to be related a failure like him.

As you would expect, this didn't have the best effect on Mikhail.

Which when combined with his survivor's guilt, pretty much drove Mikhail to insanity.

Sometime later, Mikhail would meet Magneto, who offered him a place in Genosha, along with some rehabilitation.

And while Mikhail did get a little better (keyword: a little), he continually carried on an immense hatred for his younger brother.

And when he heard that The Brotherhood were going to his hometown and hearing that Colossus moved back there, Mikhail was immediately onboard, jumping at the chance for revenge.

As you would expect, main conflict of this episode would be with Colossus, who doesn't want to fight his brother, who he still dearly loves and wants to help him instead.

Luckily, the X-Men would arrive to help Colossus after they received reports of a series of explosions occuring in his town.

However, a powerful scene I thought of would come near the end of the battle.

Essentially, Illyana would get badly hurt in the middle of scuffle.

And this would send Colossus over the edge!

He would beat the living shit of Mikhail and the rest of The Brotherhood!

Like everyone says: it's always the nice ones to be afraid of.

Luckily, the X-Men are able to stop him before the beating turns into a full-on massacre.

In the end, Colossus decides to return to the X-Men with Illyana, so she can be healed and so they can help her hone her powers.

During the last few minutes of the episode, we would get a few more character moments.

Upon his return to the Mansion, Colossus looks somewhat saddened, as he would reveal that he's somewhat regretful about the ass-whooping he unleashed on The Brotherhood, specifically Rogue. Not only that, but also what he said to her.

Oh yeah, let's talk about that real quick.

This would be the first episode to show how much Rogue regrets joining The Brotherhood.

Essentially, she and Colossus were actually very close friends prior to the explosion.

In fact, he (along with Wolverine) was one of the few people who Rogue opened up to the most.

As would expect, this doesn't go well at all.

And when The Brotherhood retreated, Colossus yelled out to Rogue saying that if he ever saw her again, he WOULD KILL HER.

Which I know sounds incredibly heartless.

But remember, she was associated with the group who just terrorized his town, tried to take his sister against her will, and even threatened the lives of his parents.

If your best friend was part of a group who did all that, you would be fucking pissed too!

This episode would also the first showcase of Gambit's heroic side.

While The Brotherhood are taking pleasure in what they're doing, Gambit isn't.

He even tries to reason with Quicksilver that they could possibly accomplish their goal in a way that doesn't make them look like terrorists.

Near the end of the episode, we would also get a tender scene between Colossus and Iceman.

Yep! These two would have romantic feelings for each other.

As Colossus, in the words of Chang, is...

We would also get one between Shadowcat and a recovering Illyana, who would also both have romantic feelings towards each other.

X-Calibre (February 13th, 2009):

This episode is pretty much the same.

However, there would be major change, and that would be in the characterization of Nightcrawler.

Nightcrawler was honestly the MVP of the original show, largely because he was the only X-Men who didn't get majorly sidelined for the sake of Wolverine.

However, there would be a few changes in Nightcrawler's character.

He would be little more jovial like how he typically is. Like, it's almost weird to not see Nightcrawler being all that playful.

He would rocking the cutlasses for the entire series. The man should be allowed to show off his swordsmanship!

He would be very explicit in his faith. It's actually weird how up until X-Men '97, it's been over 20 years since Nightcrawler was last shown to be openly religious.

The X-Men vs. The Hulk (February 20th, 2009):

I know most of you would prefer this episode get removed entirely.

But in all honesty....I'm keeping it!

This is one of the best episodes in the entire series.

I think that's because of two reasons.

It's nice to see a Marvel cartoon (even if it's focused on a particularly character or characters), being allowed to actually pull in and explicitly reference that much bigger Marvel universe instead of just pretending that specific portions of it (if not all of it outside their specific circle) don't exist for the umpteenth fucking time.

2. This episode would officially establish The Yostverse, as it follows up on the events of the film: Hulk vs. Wolverine (which funnily enough, was released just four days after Wolverine and the X-Men premiered). Along with that, Nick Fury and Hulk/Bruce Banner have pretty similar designs to how they look in The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes (which although isn't explicitly said, is implied to take place after WAXTM). Plus, they have the same voice actors in both shows. Alex Désert as Nick Fury, Gabriel Mann as Bruce Banner, and of course, Fred Tatasciore as The Hulk.

But back on topic, this episode is largely the same, except that the whole team is involved instead of just Wolverine.

Plus, I think this episode would really highlight just how tough each of the X-Men are in their own way, since they're literally dealing with the most powerful being on the planet!

Anyway, the best part of the episode would definitely be the ending.

The original was already great.

But this would 10 times so.

You can't tell that me that having Wolverine punch Banner, prompting him to Hulk out, which would result in him sending all of the X-Men flying across the forest, eventually landing on the ground with a mighty thud, leaving a massive crater in the process, and having all of them, while clearly being in a lot of pain, weakly saying in unison, "Have fun, Fury....", wouldn't be the funniest shit ever.

In fact, I need someone to make an art piece of that right now!

Well that’s all I have for now.

Let me know what you guys think about this second part of the rewrite. And if you could, give me some ideas on how the rest of the series should play out!

[quasiquack666]

Chapter 300 Thoughts:

Contains spoilers so I'll hide this under the break.

(Screen readers stop now)

— Already hate that Gestella was immediately sad as fuck about Kayden defending Jiyoung. Holy shit what is with the writing, she is literally like a 50-year-old woman who barely knows him. My face is permanently smacked into my palm.

— Meanwhile, I actually love Gestella herself. 'No point in looking for someone who decided to leave'? It's wise but also hints at sorrow. I really love her. I haven't known her that long but she's definitely a favourite already. Gestella hits different; she's super hot but I also like her moments of depth and think she's a great character.

— Literally the chemistry between Gestella's Handmaiden and Gestella is more compelling than her and Kayden. They're lesbians, your honor. Kayden can fuck off kindly.

— Handmaiden is a super cool sidekick character, actually. She's getting a lot more personality and development than I thought she would. I definitely need a name for her though, like please writers, name drop? Why does Blues get a name so far but she doesn't?

— I love the Awakener world lore, with Gestella seemingly isolated in comparison to the other Top Ten. It's really neat; perhaps she's afraid of letting people close to her that she's unsure are loyal. Because Handmaiden and Blues seem generally loyal, even though Blues is bonkers. But maybe she values the general loyalty?

— The characterization of Blues is super interesting too. He seemed bonkers, like most of the other antagonists, and he is. But he actually does seem to care about Gestella, similar to Handmaiden girl. I mean, he's clearly obsessive and weird, but it's a bit more nuanced? He was actually in tears. I wonder what part of his past made him obsessed with serving her? (Also applies to Pluton and Handmaiden; I really wanna know).

— Jiyoung slaying is always welcome to my humble eyeballs.

— The 300th Chapter extra art is fantastic, I love it.

Overall Impression:

I don't really see how this advances the original plot of Eleceed, not gonna lie. Like what happened to the Jiwoo family arcs, and why did Subin + Jisuk + Wooin immediately vanish from the plotline again, and why is there more of a focus on romance in the recent chapters than the actual plotline?

Kayden did not need a love interest, he should be able to just be a cute dad to his son and take care of cats and love having a home? Seriously.

Nevermind that adding more characters is frustrating because we barely get information on characters who are already in the plotline. Iseul has poofed into an animal or something, Delein is irrelevant despite being the literal first major arc, Cain is gone, Arthur is gone, Vatore is off the planet, Amyeong has become one with the shadows, Subin + Jisuk + Wooin are barely existing anymore. What happened to those initial, extremely important character development arcs? Now it feels like we get a character, then maybe 5-10 chapters on them, and then they vanish.

Like we haven't even had an explanation of Gestella and Pluton's relationship that led to Pluton going to kill/challenge Kayden in the first place. What the fuck, where is that? That's kinda more important than the romance letter bullshit.

Don't get me wrong, I've loved this webcomic enough to write 30+ fanfictions on it and constantly rant to every online Eleceed fan I know. So I'm not a hater, I'm a lover.

But where the fuck is the stuff I actually LOVE?

[ladyfromaspookyforest]

What Is Will's Arc if Mlvn Is Endgame?

A Byler trying to make sense of the show from a mlvn POV

I like to be informed on both sides of a debate. So I'd like to understand what evidence mlvns have to support their ship. Unfortunately, most Milkshakes think mlvn endgame is obvious and therefore that they don't need to prove it. So basically, this is me trying to explore the one thing that just Does. Not. Make. Sense. to me from a mlvn endgame perspective. And that's Will's arc.

Will's arc IS STILL SUPER IMPORTANT when addressing the show from a mlvn standpoint because ships do not exist in a bubble. Therefore, it is essential to acknowledge that Will is integral/central to the show and that supporting queerness has been an ST theme since day 1. Will's arc has never been about familial acceptance. The first episode of the show demonstrated that Joyce loves Will no matter what. We had a queer-coded acceptance speech from Jonathan in that same season (another in season 2) and a far more blatant one in season 4. The series wrapping up with yet another would be dissatisfying and redundant.

Acceptance from his friends is not it either, because we also saw his friends sticking up for him despite being bullied about his visible queerness. Not once did anyone stick up for Will by denying his queerness. This is likely a consequence of taking Will's lead, suggesting Will has never denied his own queerness. It is very clear that this has been going on for quite a while and his friends not only do not have an issue with people thinking Will is gay, but will defend him on account of it. Will's friends accepting him is no great revelation.

Will's conclusion CANNOT be something that has been a truth from the start. If Will's story begins with being loved by all of his friends and family whether he's gay or not, we can't watch five seasons of him struggling only for the conclusion to be that he is loved by all of his friends and family whether he's gay or not. There is ZERO development. It can't be romance if it's not Mike. The turnaround is too quick for Will's feelings to come into the open, for him to be definitively friendzoned, for him to get over these feelings, for him to meet someone new, for him to develop feelings for this new person, and for him to get involved with this new person. This is literally impossible to cram into the final season even for a side character we WOULDN'T mind a rushed romance for. But ESPECIALLY not for Will, one of the backbone characters of the show (*cough* whose queerness has been integral to the show's very makeup from the start *cough cough*).

So if I'm fighting for my life over here to make mlvn make sense for Will, in order for this to work, you have to remove romance from Will's arc completely. Yes, we as Byler shippers are fully aware of the moment romance became integral for Will.

BUT for the sake of this exercise, we're going to say that Will's romantic plotline is a dead-end (I'll come back to the queerness) and that he's going to have to put his feelings for Mike on the backburner for the sake of the world. With this logic, you'd have to acknowledge that Will is going to be at the center of the supernatural plot, which most people do but some mlvn dingdongs think he's a gay, irrelevant, crybaby. So. Pretending we have logic: Will's at the center of the plot. Here's an imaginary arc for Will I've constructed in which he does not get the boy OR get sidelined:

Scenario

This is extremely dependent on the parallels between Will and Henry.

For the sake of this exercise, Henry is queer. He may or may not be within the actual world of ST, but for this to work, Henry's queerness would need to be expressly stated within the show. Additionally, THIS IS NOT A THEORY and it's not what I THINK will happen, so anything related to timeline theory is being side-lined here. For this scenario to work, there is one Henry and he becomes Vecna. Henry feels like an outsider. He is made to feel "wrong" and different. It would be necessary to parallel Virginia with Lonnie and to introduce a friend or a neighbor or some boy Henry had a crush on. If we wanted to explore more mature feelings to be closer to Will's, this could even take place later in the lab when he's older.

The gist is that Henry would have to experience the heartbreak of having feelings for a straight boy combined with internalized homophobia and a lack of acceptance from the people in his life. Both Henry and Will would experience harassment, feelings of being different, unrequited feelings, and come to a confrontation with one another. For maximum impact, Mike just found out about the painting/Will's feelings and reacted poorly (because of the lying, not the gay). Now Will's in a trance, having a one-on-one with Vecna in his mind lair and Mike's freaking the fuck out and feeling like an asshole and Vecna tries to relate to Will and Will's big triumph is realizing that Vecna is RIGHT and they are so much alike, but despite what Mike said, Will knows Mike loves him anyway. And despite being sad, gay, and alone, Will still loves the people in his life and he has some big moment of AND I LOVE MYSELF TOO and yay Will self-love hurrah you're sad but not going to let it ruin you woohoo and he tells Vecna there was nothing wrong with him when he was a wee lad either and yada yada you get the gist.

Why it works and why it doesn't

Ignoring what this does to Henry (because that's a whole other thing), this actually concludes Will's struggles with his own queerness perfectly fine. THEMATICALLY, it's trash. And that's the big issue with Will ending up single. When you look at Will as a character within this body of work, sans themes, you can see his arc as one of needing to accept HIMSELF. As I said before, it isn't about his family or friends accepting him (although explicit scenes of this would be beneficial for Will's self-love journey). We know he has accepted his own queerness, but he still feels like a mistake. His arc culminating in his acknowledgement that he is NOT a mistake is super important for him. I do, in fact, believe it's a large part of his REAL arc. Being able to take ownership of this part of himself and feel happy with it is necessary for him with or without romance. And within the story, it's okay to tell a tale about a queer boy who doesn't get the boy he loves if the story ends with him learning to love himself.

The issue is that this body of work exists in the real world. It exists in a world where telling that tale of the gay kid not getting the boy is delivering a negative message about queerness. It exists in a world where PR has been done surrounding the show that both allowed and encouraged the shipping of these boys. If the show ends with this bittersweet conclusion of Will's arc, letting go of his love for Mike but gaining love for himself, it won't be JUST about Will. Because Will represents gay youth in general. And ending with Robin and Vickie together does nothing for this message. It doesn't serve to show us that queer relationships are good and possible and that Mike and Will just weren't meant to be. Because Rockie is not a stand-in for Byler. That PR I mentioned still exists. You cannot say, "well we queerbaited Byler, but we still gave you a queer relationship!"

And way back to the beginning when I mentioned that supporting queerness has been woven into the show since the FIRST episode, while my (stupid) scenario or something similar allow Will's personal arc to conclude in a way that doesn't negate the narrative, it DOES negate the message.

So...WHAT is Will's arc if mlvn is endgame?

Self-love, IMO. I think Will's arc is equal parts learning he is NOT a mistake and learning that he CAN find love despite his queerness, but if mlvn were to be endgame, it could only be the first half. And if the show played his journey strong enough, they could make that extremely powerful on its own. Unfortunately, it's impossible to create this ending without sending a negative message. So while I DO think it is possible to wrap up Will's arc sans Byler in a way that makes sense within the narrative, I don't think it's possible outside of it. In a world where people consume the narrative and recognize that sad gay boy ending up alone = bad message. That even if queerness is accepted, celebrated, and supported WITHIN the show, the show says the OPPOSITE by allowing the only single party member to be the gay one.

I think this is where a lot of mlvns get confused. I'm not talking about the extreme antis and the homophobes. But for the people who genuinely care about Will and ship mlvn (they exist), I think this ability to disconnect Will and his journey from the Real World the show airs in is what allows them to believe mlvn endgame is not harmful. The people saying "It's realistic!" about Will being sad and in love with his straight best friend in the 80s are failing to recognize that THIS IS NOT THE 80S. It's MEDIA.

This is the major difference between Mlvn + Will and Byler + El. Both El and Will need to learn to love themselves and find strength in themselves outside of other people's perceptions of them. But, even if we ignore the depth/nature of feelings both El and Will have for Mike or the ways in which their relationships with him have been portrayed. Let's say Will and El feel EXACTLY the same about Mike. Byler + El = sad but empowered El while Mlvn + Will = sad but empowered Will + bad message.

I did genuinely set out to try to explain this argument to myself, not to go on an anti-mlvn tangent. But...my conclusion is that I can't (shocker). Art was meant to be perceived. Thank you and goodnight (it's afternoon).