#httyd2 analysis

[tenebrius-excellium]

Thinking about what if shipping dragons off to the hidden world for their own protection had been Valka's idea. I'm still somewhat salty about Httyd2 undoing all that Hiccup achieved in Httyd1 with "being the first one to ride a dragon" and all, so imo Valka should get to be a little more unhinged. I mean.

When I take a look at the Bewilderbeast's dragon sanctuary, that's literally a makeshift version of a secret dragon world, isn't it? A hidden nest? Isn't it Valka who wants dragons to stop having to interact with humans at all? Shouldn't she already have theories about the whereabouts of a hidden world location, based on migration patterns and everything else she knows about dragons? Shouldn't she be the one jumping at the opportunity to find it?

I liked that she had the learning arc of "hiding everyone away doesn't work" in Httyd3. But that didn't seem to account for a 'dragons only' version. She still believed in the cause of protecting dragons somewhere else. It was Hiccup who never gave up wanting to believe in the peaceful coexistence between humans and dragons. Like, Idk if the stances would have been slightly shifted, with Valka creating a polar opposition, would it have made any satisfying difference?

Anywho, I'm - again - amazed at Dreamworks' creativity to create worlds within worlds, like shells, or layers - see the volcano on Dragon Island, see the Bewilderbeast's nest, similar to the dinosaur world in Ice Age 3. It's just frustrating that these ecosystems aren't allowed to be connected - instead, they're closed-off islands where certain humans may not venture based on other humans' ideas of the role dragons should play. It would be fantastic to explain this stuff naturally - like, if the hidden world had been all lava, humans could not have lived there for the sake of environmental incompatibility. And it would have naturally prevented any villains from going down there as well. I believe the dragons deserve a realm that truly belongs to them and them alone, like deep-sea creatures. That doesn't mean they should be restricted to those spaces for their 'safety', of course.

Idk I'm just rambling. But Valka and her attitude could have been played a little differently and while I do not think it would have been fruitful to the story, I currently like the experiment.

[10blue10]

Unfortunately in the third film Hiccup is still basically doing whatever the fuck he wants (overcrowding Berk with wild dragons, moving the entire village to an unfamiliar location, ditching the tribe not once but twice, and sending all the dragons away) and appears to be using his authority as chief to enforce his whims, which are never questioned. Or rather, his whims get questioned, but never challenged or refused. Even when it would be in the other characters’ best interests to say “no, we’re not doing that.” Because this is the Hiccup Show, after all.

I Never Listen

Har-har, I see what you did there, Dreamworks, very funny— hold on a second.

It is both unfair and out of keeping with the film’s message to compare Hiccup to a baby - after all, Hiccup’s entire arc in the second film is about coming into his own and accepting his place and responsibilities as chief. Yet the parallel here is undeniable, especially since he’s busy riding a baby dragon at that moment.

So what IS the deal with this parallel? Well, let’s backtrack a bit.

Both films in the HTTYD series so far have dealt with the theme of independence. In the first one, it’s about FINDING independence: Hiccup has to leave the Viking way and defy his father, while Toothless and the other dragons have to be freed from the queen. Between the two of them, they find a new and better life through their new independence.

In the sequel, the issue is that Hiccup is TOO independent. He’s TOO eager to get out from under authority, to escape expectations and responsibilities, to the point where, first he runs away, and then he’s so determined to go about things his own way that he refuses to listen to his father’s advice. The switch only happens when Stoick is killed, and Hiccup has to resolve to return to Berk and take on the mantle of chief in order to “protect his own.” He’s learning to take on responsibility and listen to others’ counsel, not throw it away. But…

This movie is also about what TOO much authority, and TOO much power, can do. We got a glimpse of this in the first film, with the Red Death, but the theme is much more fleshed out in the second film. Any kind of blind following - what the Alpha forces the dragons to do, and equally what Drago forces the Alpha and his human employees to do - is dangerous and leads to evil.

“Do you trust me?”

HTTYD2 is about accepting responsibility and learning to trust others, yes, but at the same time it does not forget the lessons and themes of independence, of knowing when to stand up to authority and change things, from the first film. Which is why this parallel is actually, far from a joke, incredibly important. In the midst of taking on responsibility, of standing up and becoming chief, Hiccup still retains enough of the rebelliousness and recklessness of his younger self to come up with a crazy idea to get them back to Berk.

Ultimately, this movie is about BALANCE. Hiccup cannot be the chief Stoick was, but nor can he continue to be the carefree explorer of the beginning of the film. He finds his own path, walking the middle ground between coveted independence and necessary responsibility. It will be interesting to see how well he has maintained it in the third film.

[saturnniidae]

HTTYD 2 is ten years old today, it was my first exposure to the franchise and despite its many glaring flaws i can't help but love it and hold it so close to my heart.

This scene is a great example of why.

I love it so much. It's a heart-wrenchingly beautiful reminder that as good as he is, Hiccup is not some perfect hero. He is still just a person, a flawed human being who has cracked under the pressure of his circumstances and is barely given time to grieve his fathers' death.

(I adore scenes like this — It humanizes characters so much more, and just adds to that layer of perceived realism.)

And you can see the regret on his face as soon as he says it. But in that moment he doesn't do anything about it; he's still processing Stoick's death, and he only snaps out of it when he sees Toothless is under the Bewilderbeast's control again and Valka has to hold him back from attempting to go after him.

What he said and did to Toothless there was a momentary lapse in judgment fueled by grief. And later, as he breaks Toothless out of the Alpha's control, you can see he feels terrible about it. About how, even if it was brief, he pushed away his best friend. And he loves Toothless so much.

The way he talks to him literally breaks me every time I rewatch it.

"It wasn't your fault, you'd never hurt him, you'd never hurt me."

"Please, you... are my best friend, bud. My best friend."

And when Toothless comes back he just looks so elated to see Hiccup.

Though, Something that's even crazier to me is the fact all this takes place over less than a week. Once he gets toothless back and Drago is defeated, he is immediately made chief. And with the state berk is in, he is given presumably no time to properly mourn Stoick, or to fully adjust to the presence of his mother.

(though I feel his and Valka's relationship will never be what it could've been. He knows she chose not to come back, and that is a blow to their newly formed and fragile bond that, as much as they love each other, is not something she can ever fully make up for.)

But at least through everything, since the beginning, the one real constant he's had has been Toothless.

They're friendship was built off a mutual feeling of out-of-placeness, then unconditional trust and unwavering loyalty.

they love each other so much it makes me wanna throw up

[uselessreptile]

You ever think about how Valka in HTTYD2 is basically what Hiccup would've become had Astrid not stopped him from running away?

Valka didn't return to Berk because she didn't believe people could change. She believed the people of Berk would always hate dragons, and that trying to persuade them otherwise would be futile.

Hiccup probably would've thought the same thing as his mother, had he not been able to bring Astrid around to his side. Astrid, the most devoted among her peers to her training to one day protect Berk by fighting the dragon menace, was able to change her mind about dragons. If Hiccup could change her mind, he could change his whole village's mind.

Valka never got a chance to change someone's mind about dragons, so she never got a chance to change her mind about people (that is, not until she saw what Hiccup had accomplished).

[kingofthewilderwest]

Humanizing Dragons and Dog-izing Toothless

Been a while since I've posted HTTYD analyses, so thought I'd pull a clip from last night's stream where we went in depth talking Dragons!

Concepts more or less in clip:

Fandom dumbing down dragons to the point of hapless pets versus treating dragons the same psychologically as humans

The middle ground - treating dragons as a separate species, highly intelligent animals

HTTYD franchise depicting dragons from a naturalistic perspective

Toothless's mannerisms being a combination of creatures in the first film - cat, rabbit, horse, dog, etc. but the balance of those traits shifting to dog-like prominence by HTTYD 2

Shifting Toothless's traits after already being an established character is a disservice to the character we fell in love with

Toothless in the HTTYD 1 era - including small humanizing moments in GOTNF and why everything felt congruent

Toothless increasingly being treated as a cute gimmick for audience appeal instead of as an independent character

[tenebrius-excellium]

I hope it's ok for me to comment on this Niki...because

HARD AGREE on almost every point of this review. Agree that Astrid works, beautifully stated. Her girlboss personality is also a clear flaw and that's why she works.

Agree on the second movie being 'weakest', as well. It was epic, it was cool, it was creative, it was heartfelt, it had stakes - so what was the problem? I believe that it was because there was no logical justification of the plot beyond the first flying scene. You can literally pinpoint the moment where the plot halts, and it's where Hiccup asks Toothless to "Just keep going?" - "Nooooo." Everything that came afterwards had to be new and fresh, but it wasn't properly tied into the old plot. It wasn't an innate consequence of Hiccup's character, it had to be made up to externally produce plot. See my takes on backend vs. frontend motivation here and here, if you're interested.

I'm surprised but happy that you LIKE THW! Agreed! I also agree that Grimmel mirrors Hiccup in some fantastic ways. However, I'm equally surprised that you are able to overlook his childish stupidity which imo destroys his credibility as a villain (see W-W-W-West & co).

Textures, soundtrack, everything is just yassssss! Well said!

I also agree that Httyd was about loss from the start. I had just personally hoped that it would be more about moving on from that loss and not about losing even more in the end. (But you know how that's tied into our private conversations.)

Also AGREE that the poor Light Fury received way too much hate. It's not her fault that she was given a slightly unusual character design and no actual plot, context, or personality. She could have been amazing, had we been able to get to know her a little better. I too love that she is sparkly!

Ya girl's been SICK this week (my first time getting Covid, yaaaay), which sucked, but it did mean I finally had the time to properly binge the How to Train Your Dragon movies for the first time since The Hidden World released. I've never actually sat down and watched all three films back-to-back before, even though this was THE film franchise of my teenage years. But having finally done so, I have Thoughts™.

First movie is still arguably the best of the three, if only because it's an entirely self-contained narrative. The script is really tight and focused, and the whole thing is really well-paced. The animation actually looks way better than I remembered, but that might just be because this was my first time watching it on Blu-Ray instead of digital.

First movie also still has the best soundtrack of the three (which is saying a lot, considering John Powell was absolutely COOKING with all three movies). "Test Drive" is just too iconic to be outdone.

I really like Astrid's character arc in the first movie. I normally don't like tough-as-nails girlboss characters because they're so often one-dimensional and boring, but she works really well for me because her girboss-ness is as much a flaw as it is a strength. While she is athletic and competitive in her own nature, she's also under a lot of pressure to be a tough warrior, since that's what her society values. I love the way Hiccup brings out her softer side, how he shows her through Toothless that it's ok to be gentle, that compassion is a strength in its own right. I love the way she in turn becomes his pillar of support and comfort. Somehow I'd forgotten just how good Hiccstrid really is.

It's weird re-watching the second film as an adult, because I can still clearly remember a time when it was just the coolest thing ever. The second film was really what sold me on the series as a whole, to be honest. Like, don't get me wrong, I always loved the first one, but the second is where I really started getting into the worldbuilding and characters.

So it's weird to come back to it now and find out it's....actually the weakest of the three films (in my opinion, anyways). I can't quite put my finger on why, but the second film feels like it "drifts along" more than the other two. Like things "just happen" without as much input from the characters. Again, I'm not sure why it feels like that, because it's not like the characters aren't proactive and shaping the way the story unfolds.

None of that is to say that the second movie is bad by any stretch of the imagination. It introduces a bunch of really cool new concepts that do a great job of expanding the world and characters. It just had that weird drifty feeling to it that the other two lacked. Does anyone even know what I'm talking about here, or am I just crazy??

It's nuts how much of a touchstone "For the Dancing and the Dreaming" became in fandom culture. Ten years later, and I still see this song popping up in fics from every fandom under the sun. I think that's a testament to how beautiful Stoic and Valka's reunion was.

Unfortunately, Drago Bludvist is....not a very good villain, imo. He kinda just screams a lot, and that's it. His whole thing of imitating dragons in order to subdue them is cool, but it really needed to be backed up by a stronger personality. But it's not too much of an issue since really, his Bewilderbeast is the real obstacle for the heroes to overcome.

Now, The Hidden World is a weirdly controversial movie within the fandom. I still see people whose hatred for this film rivals that of the Tales of Arcadia fandom's hatred for Rise of the Titans. Which...I gotta admit, doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Like, I can understand not liking the bittersweet ending, but it's not as though THW went out of its way to ruin the entire series.

Looking at the series as a whole, I'd say THW feels like the most logical and organic conclusion to the series. Especially if you've read the books or seen the tie-in tv shows. I knew going into this movie that it would end with the dragons leaving--DeBlois even told us as much in an interview leading up to the film's release. And I'm okay with that.

The first movie touches on the theme of loss with Hiccup's leg. The second movie digs into that theme a bit more, with the loss of his parents (first Valka, who thankfully is found again, then Stoic). The Hidden World dives headfirst into the idea. Loss is no longer a mere consequence of the story's events, but the thematic backbone of the whole movie. And it's here that I realized the series has always been about loss, because the series has always been about growing up. You can't mature without losing something, whether it's a place, a person, or your childhood naivete.

HTTYD uses its fantastic premise to explore a painful reality of our own world, and it does so in a way that's entertaining, sincere, and encouraging. Hiccup has lost so much on his journey to adulthood, but he's also grown strong enough to be able to rise above it. He'll be okay. Toothless will be okay. And we'll all be okay too. Idk, maybe I'm reading too much into it, but that's my takeaway from the series, and it's definitely something that I've needed to hear more than once as I've grown up.

Grimmel is definitely a huge step up from Drago for me. He's essentially who Hiccup would have become if he'd lacked that compassion that caused him to spare Toothless in the first film. I also love his overall demeanor and presence. He's not a force of nature, or a feral war-lord. He's just a Guy who is very, very good at his job and knows it. Plus, F. Murray Abraham just has a really cool voice.

Unfortunately, as much as I like Grimmel as a villain, he's still outclassed by Viggo Grimborn from Race to the Edge.

I can't get over how insanely good the visuals are in this series. Especially the textures. Like, there's times in the first movie where the textures look so good that the actual models almost can't keep up. I can see what Toothless's scales feel like, the scratchy weave of Hiccup's tunic, the coarse fur of Stoic's cloak. HTTYD is the only series I can think of that seamlessly pulls off a "realistic" look with animation. The world feels real, without taking away from the suspension of disbelief that makes animation such a freeing medium. It's as if they came to the edge of the uncanny valley, then got into a hot air balloon and floated across without ever touching it.

Looking back, I think this was just the perfect series to be a teenager with. It's just the right blend of action, adventure, and emotion, all wrapped up in a wholesome and often heart-rending tale of a boy and his dragon growing up together. I really wish we could have more series like this.

(Edit) Also the Light Fury is my favorite dragon species in the entire series, no I will not take that back, she's super pretty and sparkly and I just want to pat her on her cute nubby head.

[tenebrius-excellium]

Returning to really ponder Httyd2 since it's the 10 year anniversary and I believe that I actually could have liked it - as in, it would have been a fundamentally different & more positive viewing experience for me - if the lighting hadn't been so dramatically off.

See, to me, Httyd2 carries a very distinct "unfinished" touch. I know next to nothing about professional animation, but I can tell that...

a) there is one layer missing on the final character/environmental render (the 'glow', as I like to call it for lack of a better term of description)

b) the writing can be very cardboard-like at times and seems not very fluent or dynamic. Notice how the conversation comes to a stark halt and dies down the moment Hiccstrid meets Eret. Everything is reduced to "what are you doing", "what are you talking about", and robotically echoing what Eret explains. It shortly gets better again when Hiccup meets Valka, but becomes boring once more in the sanctuary when the curious new dragons are used to distract from the rather bland exchange of a lot of information between Valka and Hiccup. Sure, they need to catch up, and it's fascinating to them - but there are more sophisticated ways of telling this stuff if you need to keep an audience engaged at the same time. Anyway.

c) there is a huuuge contrast between the lightest and the darkest scenes in the movie. And it's blinding, to be honest. The "Where No One Goes" sequence is sooo bright. The sanctuary as well. When confronted with Valka's cave reveal and Drago's scenes, the switch to darkness is very uncomfortable on the eyes of the watcher. The colors often seem bleak and watered down too. It takes away from the ability to immerse oneself since the individual scenes don't blend into a continuous, harmonious viewing experience. All kinds of color tones are thrown together without a common "filter", so to speak - the missing "glow" which I was talking about.

So all in all, Httyd2 is really good, it's just somewhat edgy - as edgy as Hiccup's chiseled jaw.

One can tell that they developed this absolutely amazing new technology for this animation and then kinda got lost playing around with it. They had so much fun trying to get to know the new tools that they forgot they had an actual movie with a coherent plot and proper design to make. Httyd2 feels exciting and cool, but the making of feels somewhat empty and rushed.

My eyes were opened to this by a certain gifset which I can't seem to find right now, but it somehow tweaked the saturation in a way where suddenly there was depth being created in many of the Httyd2 scenes that had just felt flat to me before. It's interesting how color influences the ability to immerse oneself. EDIT: This is not the one I meant, but it comes close!!

Anywho, I don't know, I didn't mean for this to be so negative or whatever... it's just something that I keep and keep noticing... in a rather technical, educational manner... where I can't help but think to myself what a shame it is that they had to meet an early deadline with Httyd2. Cuz being granted nine months more, give or take, would have made the difference for the team to develop this 'good sequel' into an actual M A S T E R P I E C E. Good things take their time.

It's all there. In the beginnings, in the vision, in the trenches. The amazingness just didn't quite make it to the surface. The last finish, the final gloss, is missing. Aaaaarrrrrgggghhh. Haha.

That said, I'm learning to love Httyd2 as it is. It did not carry the message I needed back then either. We're slowly growing on each other, as the message becomes more apparent now. Eh. Lol.

[avannak]

Hi! So, you remember Stoick's funeral in HTTYD2 just after they've all fired their burning arrows then the camera gives shots of the group's reactions (Fishlegs crying, Snotlout trying to hide tears, etc.) - I'm interested to know how you interpret Astrid's reaction, that sort of piteous smile she gives Hiccup? How do you interpret that? Thanks!

Hiccup says “I’m sorry, dad” and then we flash to Astrid, who had previously been zoned out on where the arrow’s hit... perhaps noting Hiccup’s silhouette in the flames moving in the foreground...

...Then, as though his words have just reached her, she reacts with a close-lipped, almost exasperated-but-knowing smile.  Like it was those words, from Hiccup, that drew her from reflection.

And that’s the best way I tend to interpret her little reaction. That she hears this depreciating comment that is just… so Hiccup. That’s he’s apologizing, again, because she knows, probably better than anyone (save, perhaps, for Gobber) that Hiccup’s always held this unrealistic understanding of how his own father viewed him. Regardless of all the progress the pair have made in communication, Hiccup still can’t shake the weight that he’s somehow coming up short in his father’s eyes, that he had somehow failed him, or disappointed him, in some manner or another. Astrid will, and has, told him otherwise -- been the mediator between the two men -- but both are stubborn and far too alike.

So here Hiccup stands, choosing “sorry” as his final words to his father. And despite everything that’s just gone down Astrid can only think how Hiccup it is.

Again, this is just how I’ve chosen to read it. I’ve mentioned it in other posts (here and here, specifically) but I found Astrid sort of annoyingly muted throughout the movie. Especially when it came to big emotional moments. We had her delightfully readable in the first movie – tearful and reactive; angry and ugly. Stoick’s funeral and Hiccup’s “almost death” were just… bleh. Here we have Valka, Hiccup’s estranged mother, shrieking and throwing herself at the ice surrounding her child and Astrid falls back into pretty-plot-device-on-stand-by.

[tenebrius-excellium]

I love Httyd3 but this is very well explained. 

The solution to Httyd3′s problem - “people who want to exploit dragons will always exist” - would have been to introduce law. Like a treaty signed by all respective Chieftains of the Barbaric Archipelago that makes hunting dragons for sport, selling them for parts (e.g. for fireproof leather skin), and forcing them to fight in arenas punishable.

This is problematic to Httyd’s general worldbuilding because a part of why we all love it (and you cannot deny this) is the magical freedom of clear skies and lawlessness, where we assume that everyone generally wants to peacefully coexist with one another and will do so because it is beneficial to everyone’s survival and serves for the enjoyment of mutual community.

Existing law in the Httyd world banishes everyone who does not comply to Outcast Island. This is a simplified solution based on a subjective consensus reached by a Chieftain and his/her advisors. Remember how Hiccup was essentially banished from Berk in Httyd1 simply because he was different, but Stoick saw his actions as a legitimate threat to the wellbeing of his tribe.

In my opinion, all of Httyd is still a compelling microcosm to look at philosophically. The simplified, idealistic worldview becomes problematic as soon as the world expands and leads to people outside of Berk’s closed-off perfection. I love Httyd with all my heart, and its universe is a paradise. It leaves a lot of food for thought regarding the governing of a larger society.

This is my TL;DR version of my thoughts on the final installment of the HTTYD franchise.

not what I usually post but I hope you can forgive me.

I had always interpretted the first two movies through an environmentalist lense. They both carried a strong theme of the coexistence of man and nature.

HTTYD 3 spit in the face of that theme.

Just replace the word "dragons" with "nature" and you'll see what I mean lol.

[aleteia-ff]

What can you tell me about Toothless’s electric blue state? The one in the boss battle of HTTYD2? I guess it’s some sort of Night Fury Super Secret Talent™ as it’s not an alpha thing, correlates with Toothless only, and is part of the Night Fury Lightning Thing (unholy offspring of lightning and death itself HELLYEAH)

Ah yes, our blue glowy boi

Clearly, Toothless is a Pokémon, went level-up by saving Hiccup’s life, and learnt a new move. 

The interesting thing about Toothless is that we will never really find out whether he’s unique or whether the “powers” he displays are a general Night Fury trait. After all, we have no one to compare him with. So this leaves us all free to interpret it the way we want to. 

My interpretation is that this is something all Night Furies can do, and that it definitely relates to the lightning abilities as well. It’s not unique to Toothless, but it’s also not a “state” Night Furies are often found in. It’s a trait that only comes out under severe stress, in a situation in which the Night Fury is truly desperate to survive - or to protect someone else. Like Toothless with Hiccup. A “you die, I die but please don’t let us die” situation, with the ice in HTTYD2. 

This does make the story of Grimmel hunting down all Night Furies a lot more interesting. Did he ever encounter one where this blue state was triggered? Did he know about it? Did he adjust his hunting techniques accordingly, sneaking up on them or tranquilizing and killing them before they could “activate”? 

Moving on to Toothless the Alpha; I don’t think it’s the blue glow that makes Toothless an Alpha, by default. But it gave him an extra dose of power, and of confidence perhaps, to establish his dominance over the Bewilderbeast and become the new Alpha. That logic begs the question whether this means other dragons can become Alpha, besides the Night Fury, the Red Death and the Bewilderbeast… And I think the answer is definitely yes. I just don’t think it goes for all of them. But some species are born as natural Alphas - the Red Death, the Bewilderbeast. And other species, under specific situations, such as the end of HTTYD2, can rise to the position of Alpha as well. 

Those are my thoughts on it! If you, or any other people, have other ideas, I’d be happy to hear them! :)

(Unholy offspring of Lightning and Death itself Hell yeah indeed!)

[peridotite]

i cannot FUCKING believe its been 5 years and ive Just realized stoick's ship is just a sad reprise of stoick's theme from the httyd intro

[inhonoredglory]

Some Hiccup’s Hubris + Self Discovery Thoughts

So, I don’t know how old or rehashed this is, but I’ve been going down some old HTTYD2 analysis tags (on @kingofthewilderwest​’s and @peachdoxie’s blog) and coming up to the point of Hiccup’s overconfidence in his belief that changing Drago’s mind is the best solution. And I think there’s even more nuance to be discovered about his stubborn hubris in optimism here.

Hiccup knows his Dad wants to make him chief. He was virtually about to crown him that very morning, before Hiccup up and ran. He doesn’t want to be chief, because he doesn’t know how to be chief––doesn’t know how to be the great, brave, selfless man his father is. But when the Drago threat comes up and he once against feels that tension between his father’s opinion and his own, he’s trapped in that dichotomy again that has defined his entire childhood: try to be your Dad and fail miserably, or trust your gut and do the only thing you know how to do.

The catalyst that drives Hiccup to go against his father this time isn’t to save Toothless like it was in HTTYD1 (the confrontation of the Kill Ring), but to prove to his Dad that he could be chief, with the person and beliefs he is. Hiccup knows it’s coming, he can’t avoid it, so right now, in this moment of crisis, he’s going to attempt to do what he would do if he were chief: follow his gut and his beliefs. Hiccup is literally trying to stay true to himself, and to craft his own chieftainship based on what he knows he is––a peacekeeper, not a warrior. Hiccup doesn’t do speeches and planning and war.* He can’t follow his Dad’s footsteps because he knows he’ll fail. Plus, following his Dad would only make him a follower, someone like his young self when he tried to mask his beliefs with the values of others. So he has to trust his gut, despite the advice and words of others, because that’s the only path he knows works for him, and the only experience he’s had. “This is what I’m good at.” There’s so much vulnerability in that statement IMO, the way he says it, like that’s his main reason for his attempt.

He’s on a quest for personal discovery in HTTYD2, and talking to Drago to change his mind is as much a proof for his Dad as it is for himself that who he is can be translated into this new, unknown thing as chieftainship.

Obviously that doesn’t work out, but it’s because the growth he’s experience in HTTYD1––that trusting one’s instinct is good and that war van be avoided––needs now to be tempered by the maturity of taking value in the past, that sometimes purity to self and rejection of the past isn’t the best path. Sometimes you have to take the old––the ugly, the violent, the tragic, the backwards––sometimes you have to take the things you left behind and integrate them into your new worldview because the past isn’t always something to reject; the past is a reservoir of all the knowledge (good and ill) gained by those who lived longer lives than our young selves have. Our individual selves are built on our parents, our grandparents, our history. Rejecting those old values are often a good thing, but not always. We need to prove ourselves, but at some point we need to put aside who we are and look back to the things we’re not.

And HTTYD is so mature and insightful in teaching that, because so often today we think everything from the past must be rejected. But sometimes war is unavoidable. Sometimes people aren’t good, even when given the chance. Sometimes you can’t be yourself.

This is why HTTYD is such a powerful set of stories. They go so far beyond the usual children’s film tropes and reach for something even more complex and powerful.

* This is where Hiccup in HTTYD2 diverges from Hiccup in RTTE a lot. Like, Hiccup in the show can totally makes speeches and confidently take on the world. Film franchise!Hiccup is afraid of leadership. I’m sure there’s a tidy reason for it, but atm I’m just laughing my ass off at the continuity.

[westwiiind]

a LONG time ago i saw a httyd2 analysis saying that astrid’s red shirt was a sign of wealth and kind of implied her betrothal to hiccup, so in my head i’m combining that Lore with this and i’ve decided that he made her that shirt<3

my old How to Train your Dragon obsession suddenly re-emerging now, after I've spent years learning about Historical Viking Clothing and Crafts is great actually cause I get to apply the Fun History Knowledge to my favorite blorbos, and now I have some very specific scenarios.

in Viking culture, gift giving was a big complicated very significant thing. And one gift that was Especially Significant was that of a New Shirt. Women would propose to the guy they wanted to marry by making him a brand new linen shirt. I could go on for several pages about what that tells us about viking culture, gender roles, and also the extremely fun ways viking age stories used "gifting a shirt" as a symbol in romantic stories, but I'll restrain myself. This post is about How to Train your Dragon.

Astrid Hofferson can't sew. There's no way. Girl spent her whole life training to be a warrior, she has not had the time or patience to sit down and learn to sew (even though it involves a whole lot of stabbing things with a sharp object). I mean even her own clothes are made with minimal amounts of sewing (a needlebound tank top and some furs wrapped around her arms instead of sleeves).

Hiccup Haddock Horrendus III, on the other hand, knows how to sew. Sure he mostly works with metal and leather, but leatherwork requires sewing. I'm pretty sure I can find actual footage of him using a needle. Also his clothes are nicely sewn, and since he grew up without a mum, and his dad is a very busy man, he must have made at least parts of his outfit himself.

So my question is: how did they ever get engaged. How did that proposal go? Did Astrid suffer through learning a new skill so she could spend months of her life painstakingly stitching together the Worst Shirt Ever Made? I imagine her rage quitting after she has to undo that one seam for a fourth time, and in true Astrid fashion, just chucking it at Hiccup with full force when he walks into the room.

or! would Hiccup defy Viking Gender Norms because he gets that Astrid has no interest in sewing? and then he gets it into his head that it has to be the most elaborate shirt on the whole island cause it's for his girlfriend and he can't even remember ever seeing her in a nice shirt before? and that's a shame cause she deserves to have nice things! And he overthinks every choice along the way because what if she hates it???? But ofc it turns out really nice and she adores it.

[kingofthewilderwest]

Hello there! I saw a post you made in 2015 about translating text in rtte! Now i get that that is 9 years ago (wow.) But i decided that i could try to shoot my shot anyway. My question is, would you be interested in helping me figure out what the text on the httyd 2 map says? On said post you mentioned not being able to read a lot of it, but i have a very high quality picture of it.

It seems that there is 2 alphabets used? Things like "Berk" and "Volcano still active" seem to be spelled differently from the dragon names.

Trough looking at all the things i could easily read, i figured out a big part of one of the alphabets (which is mostly just a stylised font)

Heyo heyo! [waves] Looks like you've got a fun project going on, and I'm glad to see it!

Goodness golly, The Ancient Days. XD I sorta remember talking about httyd "texts." I think I remember not being able to read everything when we had screencaps and low quality images, but I'm surprised I hadn't talked about the map later when we got the high quality image, since that's been out for eternity, and I remember reading it all for myself (as you said, it's basically just the Roman alphabet in a stylized font with some "Futhark" thrown in - lots of httyd text elsewhere is just cumbersomely transliterating English with the first Futhark alphabet image result on Google, after all). Maybe someone else had posted their results and I sat aside, or I let it slide???? Who knows, hah! I'm sorry I left you hanging back then, but I'm glad you're picking it up!

I'm grateful you thought of me and brought stuff up - it can be fun to return to things, however long it's been or not. XD I'll softly admit... I don't have the interest to look at it. And I hope I don't sound flippant or dismissive... I'm rooting for your project. I have full confidence you can get it all! Please go out, have maximal fun, go big, go bold, enjoy your project!!! Thanks for thinking of me, ferreals. Dragons 5ever.

[plush-anon]

tejoxys

I finally saw the Endgame spoilers clip

*rubbing my grubby little hands together bc I love a good roast*

Welp, if it’s a roast you want, a roast you shall receive!

(Note: I think I spoke vaguely enough about everything big in the Clips below NOT to warrant an outright Spoilers tag, so I’m leaving it with just an Endgame Leaks tag and a ‘Read More’ line. Message me if you’ve a.) seen the Clips/gone scrolling for more info in the Spoilers tag and b.) think it’s more spoilery than I try to vague it to be, and I’ll tag it post haste)

Christ Almighty, the Clips just make everything look like an enormous MESS.

Thor looks just... awful. In every scene. LITERALLY EVERY SCENE HE’S IN IN THESE SPOILERIFIC CLIPS, HE LOOKS TERRIBLE. There isn’t a single one where he doesn’t look like a mess. Everyone else gets a glow-up (new hair, tattoos, freshly shaved) and looks put together in general (which is admittedly baffling - really, EVERYONE looks good in the face of mass genocide and failure to stop it from occurring?) but Thor decided to whip out his Big Lebowski cosplay at their big ‘save the world’ get-together... why??? (seriously Thor, was a shower too much to ask for?)

Now, if we’d had ANY inclination that anyone else looked rough aside from Tony and Nebula a la the stuck-in-space teaser trailers we saw originally, that would be one thing. Everyone there lost a loved one, everyone there has probably had to come to terms with the fact that they FAILED TO STOP THANOS when they were all right freakin’ there! NO ONE SHOULD LOOK 100% OKAY HERE. Show me dishevelment, poor coping mechanisms, show them having to struggle for weeks (maybe even MONTHS) after the events.

But nope! They are ALL in perfect health according to the trailers we’ve seen before. Even Tony, after nearly dying in space multiple times, just takes a bath and appears to be in fine health after getting back (with some bags under the eyes). Everyone’s perfectly fine, except for Thor (and maaaaaybe Hawkeye, who looks to have gone full-on Frank Miller Batman in his quest for vengeance, but still had time to get a mullet and some sweet sleeve tats in between!).

Nice.

This is a MASSIVE problem with the MCU as a whole, and has been for a while: their repeated attempts to gloss over and sweep consequences of mental trauma and illness away under the rug until it suits them for plot convenience or for comedy. You see this in the Thor sequels a LOT (Selvig being institutionalized for comedy after being possessed, Loki being kept in literal solitary confinement for roughly 2 years, Valkyrie’s PTSD and alcoholism played for laughs, mocking Loki’s suicide attempt from Thor 1 and the actual death he survived in Thor 2, ALL of Odin’s outright dickishness as a parent a la narcissistic parenting, Hela being imprisoned in isolation for literal CENTURIES), as well as anything to do with Tony Stark and his thought process (everything he does is pretty much as a result of the trauma he endures, and everyone in the Avengers just??? doesn’t recognize it??? and attacks him for it without going ‘hey, maybe he’s got PTSD’ or something???? what the hell, man). GOTG does a MUCH better job of it with Rocket and Nebula, but Mantis is left woefully unrealized (thought they do touch upon it briefly, and handle it with relative seriousness). 

Either way, Thor concerns me a LOT, because he is the king of a very small group of Asgardian refugees (and given the scene that shows in the Clips, as well as the appearance of another Thor character later on, we KNOW there were multiple survivors), trying to find a new life on Midgard in the face of not one, not two, but THREE fcuking tragedies - the destruction of Asgard, Thanos’ attack on their ship, and the Snap. Why is he the way he is, in the location he’s in (which actually appears to be the apartment from Team Thor’s mockumentary)? He is the only semblance of leadership left for these people who have lost everything and he’s Like That. Where is a Thor stressed and fretting over being fully responsible for once in his life over the lives of his people, over what little remains of his kingdom? Where is a Thor struggling with guilt as he tries to build a new life for his people, struggling with rule and politics and trade? WHERE IS HE??? Bc right now, all I see is Chris Hemsworth auditioning for the remake of The Big Lebowski, having wandered onto the Avengers set instead of his audition location by mistake -_-

The scenes with Steve leave me absolutely baffled (and some of them just ooze cheese, and not in a great way), because how in the fcuk do we get to those?? His scenes feel the most disjointed here, bc they all have a similar vibe to his personality in Whedon’s Avenger movies. Kind of the ‘Boy Scout’ presentation, which is particularly odd in the aftermath of the Russo Fools’ two Cap movies and Infinity Fcuk Up, which made him more serious, less - bright? I can’t think of a good word for it rn. This is particularly highlighted in his big ‘save the world’ speech we hear - it feels kind of like an ‘okay team, time to save the world!’ speech, instead of something more serious. Is it to try to bring everyone’s hopes up? What else is missing here that we’re not seeing? Why does he feel like he’s back to this persona in light of all that’s happened? Is it to highlight how good and awesome he is in order to {SPOILER REDACTED} like we see in that final sequence? (Also, the imagery for SPOILER REDACTED, while meant to be badass and awesome, feels... kind of awkward, IMHO. Which is weird, bc I thought it would be more amazing and awesome. IDK, maybe I’m just super jaded with the MCU by now).

Carol Danvers’ scenes are actually pretty on point. She gets to be a badass in her fighting scenes and gets an awesome new look that pretty much only functions to further cement her Lesbian Status. The only way she would be more obviously a Lesbian is if her suit were in the colors of (one of) the Lesbian Pride flags and a Cyndi Lauper song was playing in the background (or maybe Joan Jett).

Hulk/Bruce Banner... I don’t even know how they’re going to swing this. Like, at all. I’m particularly baffled bc given how some of the scenes appear to be set early in the film, it resolves extremely quickly to get to that point, and after all the drama of Hulk not coming out in Infinity Fcuk Up, I just - who the fcuk knows at this point. Also, that one scene with the {SPOILER REDACTED} could be effective depending on how they set it up, but then... why exactly is he the one in the scene with the {SPOILER REDACTED} and not Carol or Thor, due to Obvious Plot Reasons?

Finally, Peter Parker. He’s adorable in his scenes, ‘nuff said.

Now, after seeing these scenes, I am left EXTREMELY CONCERNED for this movie’s tone. Granted, it was only 5 minutes of footage for a 3 hour movie. Quite clearly, there is a LOT we aren’t seeing. All the same though, it feels extremely disjointed. I know they’re trying to pull away from the dark and grim ending of Infinity War, but these clips make it all feel a little too casual, a little too ‘let’s go beat the bad guy!’ as opposed to ‘we have suffered a great failure and a great tragedy - as heroes, we MUST work to undo this for the sake of those we have lost, and everyone left alive who has lost the people they loved’. Idk, that may just be me on this one.

But you know the worst part of all of THIS? The worst part is that this is probably what we’re going to get on the release date. This isn’t a trailer Marvel released with deleted live-action scenes featuring minimal to no CGI, or sections clumsily edited over with explosion effects - this was a slew of scenes with a TON of special effects fully rendered in painstaking detail, recorded with a phone on its side in what looks like a movie theater, with foreign subtitles on the screen (I honestly don’t recognize the alphabet, but it might be Middle Eastern). That CGI is expensive and time-consuming as all hell to do, and considering how many of these scenes had it? Either they wasted a shit-ton of money on scenes they didn’t use (seriously, a number of them have Rocket in them, or Hulk - those aren’t the easiest characters to render, I would imagine), or these are in the movie, end of story.

Not to mention, TPTB clamped down on these Clips HARD - like, IMMEDIATELY - as opposed to the process behind deleting Reddit comments. The fast and heavy response from Marvel and the Russo Fools, COMPLETE WITH OFFICIAL TWEET LETTER, along with a Chris Evans tweet not to Spoil the Shit, was to chastise the ones who did (which is somewhat warranted here, given how extreme the security on leaks for Endgame have been).

This response, combined with the quality of the clips, and some of the plot threads that actually seem to be mentioned/referenced in the Lego sets, leads me to believe it’s real.

And I’m not really impressed.

On the flipside, I’m actually kind of relieved, knowing what I’m going into when I walk into the theater opening weekend. I’m not going to be completely shocked and horrified by what I see. This works well in breaking the ice, and also eases some of my anxiety on what to expect (bc I have had a LOT of it for this movie).

The downside to this is that at the end of the day, this is what 22 films ultimately amounted to. Something that feels a little too glib, a little too rushed. Something that doesn’t feel like it’s doing right by the characters who were left, and the characters we love (at least, not in full).

I understand that this is an insurmountable task - to bring to film, with limited time, a satisfying conclusion to so many characters. To arrange hundreds of people within thousands of hours on a set budget to bring this massive story, building for over ten years now, to a close that will resonate and sate with as many fans as possible. But I read fanfiction that does just that with less time, fewer moments, no budget - hell, there are 10k oneshots that rewrote Infinity Fcuk to make sense and treat the characters with the respect that they’ve earned over 20+ films.

This? Doesn’t feel like those.

I will happily admit, I am guesstimating a LOT here, based off of what essentially amounts to 3% of the movie (slightly more, depending on how long the credits are sans post-credit scenes, but still roughly 3%). There is a LOT that is missing, which could fill in these gaps successfully and make this whole post look completely pointless. If it does that, I will gleefully concede that it fooled us on this one. Maybe all of these scenes really ARE hoaxes (even if they were painstakingly subtitled in a foreign language and shown on a movie theater-size screen, but I digress).

But the framing of the scenes looks like it was meant to showcase what the movie would be as a whole, in terms of tone and what to expect. And from that, I’m not excited, or overjoyed. I’m just tired.

And I cannot WAIT for this all to be over, bc I’m fcuking exhausted just watching 5 minutes. Lord knows what 182 of them will leave me like in the end.

*peers up at massive unending ranty analysis post* ...ah. Well then. that happened again. Ah well. Hope you had fun reading my nonsense brain goop, kiddos.

[astrid-goes-for-a-spin]

Ngl I thought the fandom had moved on from httyd1 and gotnf and as a person who dislikes httyd2 and was traumatized by httyd3, it makes me immeasurably happy to see recently-written meta analysis on my dash

What are we crying about today in the Httyd fandom? How about Hiccup and Toothless in Httyd 1 and if Toothless realizes how much he matters to Hiccup in the first movie!

Because here you have this boy, this Viking boy, who doesn’t fit in and actually refuses to fit in. Because he doesn’t want to change, he wants to be accepted for who he is because he knows he can never fit in the way they want him to.

Stoick has certainly tried to make him fit in, but he does so by attempting to steer Hiccup away from what he wants to do in order to prove himself. A.k.a no dragon training, no coming out during raids, etc.

Then there is Gobber, who also wants Hiccup to fit in the Viking way, but he does it by having Hiccup do exactly what he wants to do, but in the Viking way. A.k.a convince Stoick to let Hiccup join dragon training so he can train together with the other Viking kids, do his job at the forge, etc.

But Hiccup knows that he can’t lift a hammer, that he can’t swing an axe, that he can’t even use a couple of bolas. So he tries and tries to prove himself as a dragon killer with his inventions, saying that it’s for popularity’s sake, that his life will be better, that he might even have a shot with Astrid.

And then Option C comes along and that is Toothless.

Toothless, who accepts Hiccup for who he is when he knows these few things about him:

He’s actually a friendly.

Tries to fix his mistakes.

Listens to Toothless.

Can draw.

And Hiccup’s attempts to fit in on Berk stop immediately. Because one person accepting him for who he is was enough to Hiccup. Just one.

I could go on and on about how sad it is that Hiccup’s attempts were big enough for an entire village to notice, (Like, he could’ve gone after any dragon, but he decides to go after a Night Fury of all things?) when apparently one person looking at him and going “yeah, you’re allowed to exist the way you are right now” was enough to stop any and all further attempts to fit in.

But instead I want to consider this and focus on how much Toothless must’ve meant to Hiccup in Httyd 1 specifically.

Because Hiccup did gain popularity, he did get friends, he did "fit in", he did make his father proud, he made his entire village proud. And yet, what does he do?

He makes class end quicker to see Toothless quicker. Time spend at the forge is time spend on Toothless. If he’s not drawing blueprints for Toothless, he’s drawing Toothless, etc… And then he becomes the champion of his dragon killing training class and what is his first instinct?

It’s to leave. It’s to take Toothless and leave.

Because he knows explaining he can’t kill a Monstrous Nightmare means exposing his “tricks and lies”, it means exposing Toothless, the one person who truly accepts him for who he is. And Hiccup is willing to leave his village, his newfound friends, Astrid, Gobber, his own father, his “acceptance” just to keep Toothless safe.

And that while Gift of the Night Fury possibly implies that Hiccup didn’t even believe Toothless was there to stay. He was willing to do all of that for just the one person who accepted him, who he thought was a very temporary thing.