#hsr speed

[wynterrolls]

HSR FAQ 𖡻 Speed

TLDR;

Speed breakpoints within 5 cycles (550 AV in MoC):

• 109, 112, 115, and 121 spd = +1 extra turn • 128, 134, and 143 spd = +2 extra turns • 146, 156, and 161 spd = +3 extra turns • 164, 172, and 178 spd = +4 extra turns • 182 spd to 200 spd = +5 extra turns • 200.1 spd = +6 extra turns

Choose how many extra turns you want for your DPS to take within 5 cycles. Then you decide what SPD value can you afford to get while still maintaining your desired crit ratio.

Once you've decided the SPD of your DPS, your buffer/debuffer/sustain could have:

SPD of buffer/debuffer/sustain = SPD of dps + 5 spd

** Scroll down below to read about the order priority for buffer/debuffer/sustain/DPS.

Long Text Below

To start off, the MOC requirements now needs 10 cycles max to clear. If we are going to consider that each floor has two halves, each side needs to be cleared within 5 cycles.

This means, when it comes to building your units, you need to consider building some speed into them so they could have extra turns within this 5 cycles.

I know there is this common concept that goes like this:

121 spd = low investment

134 spd = high investment

161 spd = desirable spd for supports

Ever questioned why the recommended speed has this gap in between 134 and 161 spd? Like, why is that a big difference? What do these numbers even mean?

These recommended speeds are actually from speed breakpoints that considers the fastest clear of MOC. This means, it only considers getting 2 turns in cycle 0 if you have 134 spd and getting 4 turns in cycle 1 if you have 161 spd. Those speed breakpoints are just for speedrunning MOC if you already have enough crit ratio for your DPS.

But, since we are going to consider balancing our build with enough required stats and enough speed for max 5 cycles, we are going to breakdown all possible speeds we could aim for and we'll know as well how many extra turns each unit will get if we have these specific speeds.

-

For this, we'll be using this chart from u/Elhant42 from Reddit that showed the speed vs number of turns comparison for each cycles.

The highlighted cells showed the cycles in which we'll have double turns. This means that within 5 cycles, you'll see how many extra turns you'll get if you have a specific speed in your build.

From this chart, you could see that 134 spd is the minimum speed you'll need to have double turn in cycle 0, but overall, within 5 cycles, you'll only have 2 extra turns, which is also achievable with 128 spd.

-

Here's another chart from u/Yamasir which shows the speed breakpoints that is commonly talked about by other HSR players.

** I only included until cycle 4 here because that is what we're aiming for - 5 cycles, if we are counting cycle 0 as the starting point.

-

Additional chart I recently added (since I only saw this chart late already) is from Hunterkee. The spreadsheet linked below has available SPD vs Cycle charts for 3/5/6/8 cycles. But in this post, I’ll only consider from Cycle 0 to Cycle 4 in his chart.

** The charts showed the speed breakpoints down to its decimal places, but in-game we can’t see any decimals, hence I only wrote the values above in whole number. To know the exact decimal points of your speed, you could use this site: https://enka.network/?hsr

-

From the chart, you could see the speed breakpoints that will give extra turns for each cycle. People only consider 121, 134, and 161 since those three speed values gives the most turns at cycle 0 and cycle 1, but there are other speed values we could look into that could be useful to us if we either have more or less than those commonly mentioned three speed values.

Notable speed points we should glean on are these values below. Within 5 cycles, if you have these specific speed values, wherein the starting point is at cycle 1, you'll have these certain cumulative turns:

109 spd = 6 turns, double turn @ cycle 5

112 spd = 6 turns, double turn @ cycle 4

115 spd = 6 turns, double turn @ cycle 3

121 spd = 6 turns, double turn @ cycle 2

128 spd = 7 turns, double turn @ cycle 2/5

134 spd = 7 turns, double turn @ cycle 1/4

143 spd = 7 turns, double turn @ cycle 1/3

146 spd = 8 turns, double turn @ cycle 1/3/5

156 spd = 8 turns, double turn @ cycle 1/3/4

161 spd = 8 turns, double turn @ cycle 1/2/4

164 spd = 9 turns, double turn @ cycle 1/2/4/5

172 spd = 9 turns, double turn @ cycle 1/2/3/5

178 spd = 9 turns, double turn @ cycle 1/2/3/4

182 spd = 10 turns, double turn @ cycle 1/2/3/4/5

200.1 spd = 11 turns, triple turn @ cycle 1, double turn @ cycle 2/3/4/5

At this point, you could already see how the 134 spd and 161 spd is just similar to 128 spd and 146 spd when it comes to number of turns within 5 cycles.

It goes to show how these two values are overused as advice to players and that other speed values weren't really that gleaned on despite having the same number of turns with these two speeds.

-

— What SPD should I get for my DPS/Buffer/Debuffer/Sustain? —

This, my friend, is also my question before. Now, I'll say here what I learned.

The answer is -- it depends on how you want them to act within the cycle limit.

Normally, people would say to get 134 spd for your DPS. But, I would like to rephrase that answer.

Choose how many extra turns you want for your DPS to take within 5 cycles. Then you decide what SPD value can you afford to get while still maintaining your desired crit ratio.

The SPD values to choose from are these:

109, 112, 115, and 121 spd = +1 extra turn

128, 134, and 143 spd = +2 extra turns

146, 156, and 161 spd = +3 extra turns

164, 172, and 178 spd = +4 extra turns

182 spd to 200 spd = +5 extra turns

200.1 spd = +6 extra turns

Now that you have decided how much SPD you can afford to get for your DPS, the SPD of your buffer/debuffer/sustain would depend on the SPD of the DPS.

There's this theorycrafting term called "relative speed breakpoint", which means the allies' spd breakpoints would need to consider the give-and-take of SP economy in the team. Another is “turn relationships” which is about the SPD combos that are impactful/useful for DPS and supports. To learn more about these, you could check the sources below which links to the Reddit posts made by u/EtherealEch0.

But in this post, I'd rather make it simple instead because I'm lazy to do such menial minmaxing of SPD and RNG isn't really that cooperative anyways.

Once you've decided the SPD of your DPS, your buffer/debuffer/sustain could have:

SPD of buffer/debuffer/sustain = SPD of dps + 5 spd

That's it.

TBF, it doesn't really need to be 5 spd, but any number would do as long as the buffer/debuffer/sustain is faster than the DPS.

The reasoning behind it is that the three support roles should do their job first before the DPS action, because the buff on ally and debuff on enemies could greatly boost the dmg done by DPS on enemies.

-

As for the order priority of your team members, they could go in these ways:

Sustain could be the fastest or the slowest in the team. Buffer/debuffer should be faster than DPS.

Sustain > Buffer/Debuffer > DPS Buffer/Debuffer > DPS > Sustain

Bronya is recommended to be a bit slower than your DPS so the DPS could have double turn with her skill.

Sustain > Debuffer > DPS > Bronya DPS > Debuffer > Bronya > Sustain

Sub-DPS could either be faster or slower than DPS depending on how the sub-dps kit works. Preferably, Sub-DPS have similar SPD with DPS.

Sustain > Buffer/Debuffer > Sub-DPS > DPS Buffer/Debuffer > Sub-DPS > DPS > Sustain Sustain > Buffer/Debuffer > DPS > Sub-DPS Buffer/Debuffer > DPS > Sub-DPS > Sustain

** Buffer & Debuffer are interchangeable depending on your team.

Sources

Speed spreadsheet: number of turns per 10 and 15 cycles by u/Elhant42

Extended Speed Breakpoint Chart by u/Yamasir

134 SPD is a social construct

Relative speed breakpoint by u/EtherealEch0

How Do Speed and Turn Order Work in Honkai: Star Rail?

SPD vs Cycle Sheet by Hunterkee

Speed

Turn relationships by u/EtherealEch0

Uploaded on Patch 1.5

➥ Back to my HSR masterlist.

Author’s Note:

Back then, when I’m drafting this post, I can’t find any reliable sources for the speed breakpoints (partly because I’m not really part of the TC community). After 3 months, now I could find some more info about it which expands on the topic itself.

Update Log

11/30/2023 - Uploaded this post

02/29/2024 – Added Hunterkee’s SPD vs Cycle Sheet; added more SPD values in the list

[chiricat]

[photo added to the archives!] 🍡

[feroluce]

Thinking old thoughts about henghill during the Wardance today, because I think it would be funny for Dan Heng to help Boothill "prep" for his matches wink wink nudge nudge.

Like Boothill has Dan Heng pinned up against the door in his lodgings, mouths and bodies slotted together, hands all over each other, metal warmed, fans whirring, something like adrenaline hot and heavy in his synthetic veins, and Boothill is just about to pick Dan Heng up to carry him over so he can bend him over the table-

And then Dan Heng suddenly hits the open switch and just shoves Boothill out the fucking door NDKXKJXMDLD

Boothill tumbles out into the hallway, blinks. Blinks again. Turns back around just in time to see the door slam shut in his face. "Don't come back until you've won your match," says Dan Heng's muffled voice through the door.

Boothill stares for a second, processing...processing...processing complete! And his grin is suddenly wide enough to nearly split his face.

Boothill throws his head back and laughs as he slams his hand on the door, leans in close to it to make sure he can be heard on the other side. Tells Dan Heng to just watch, he'll go win this just for him, and he'd better be here waiting cause he'll be back in no time flat!! "Yer the best, love ya babe!!" And then Boothill happily trots off to go beat someone within an inch of their life on live TV while he's still riled up and rarin' to go. ☆

((Luka, who unfortunately saw this nastiness from down at the end of the hall: Wow, Mr. Boothill seems to have a good warmup plan. Maybe I should ask him about it?

Caelus, covering Luka's eyes: Luka, don't be like them.))

[mynameis-a]

self aware honkai star rail au where sampo is the only one who's aware

or in other words, the literal canon of the game.

[actual-haise]

Just saw Sunday/Jing Yuan gameplay lord help me

[three-bunnies-in-a-trenchcoat]

Gallagher is absolutely incredibly silly in combat. Skill is "cracking open a cold one with the boys (healing edition)" and he's a one-handed Wolverine. His sped-up ultimate actually sounds angry and like he's in battle, but in the normal one he's relaxed and adds an absurdly ridiculous growl at the end

[fire-lizard-ro]

Ah yes. I've come to inquire about a certain blond fellow with the pretty eyes. Aventurine

So here's my bit. Reader is going through a break up with Aventurine and then they make up. I'm writing this while attention (females perspective)is playing in my mind. Maybe you could like incorporate it into the ask. Because I'm thinking in a way that the reader is trying to get Aventurines attention whilst keeping him at a distance. Sor of cat and mouse. And he's buying into it though he's much prefer without the sneakiness.

Also I hope this asks finds you in good spirits and a joyful mood. Caio.

Okay, okay- I have no clue what attention is. A song? I’m not good at this game help-

Anyways I will try my best.

Thank you sm for the ask. 🫶

I really do love this twinky little blond man and I’m happy to be writing about him.

It’s like two in the morning rn and I’m rambling here to distract myself from things. ANY!!! WAYS!!!

No gender is mentioned for the reader.

CW: exactly one (1) 2.1 spoiler (Aventurine’s real name- It’s at the very end), break up-make up time, mild angst bc ofc there is it’s Aventurine, hurt/comfort, happy ending hehe 🫶

Writing under the cut (SFW):

You couldn’t help but smile as you saw a certain someone’s nickname flashing across your screen. Right on time.

Though you supposed he knew what you were doing. After all, Aventurine is smart. Even if he didn’t realize it right away, he had to know by now.

You picked up the phone.

“Well hello, stranger. To what do I owe the honor?” It was hard to keep the sly lilt and inflection out of your voice when you knew he was definitely gripping his phone tightly on the other end of the line.

“I’m sure you know, dear. You’re slick but not that slick. You’ll have to do better than that to outplay me,” Aventurine said, his voice still fixed in that unhurried cadence and unbothered tone like usual despite the situation.

You rested your cheek on a hand and leaned back in your seat with a smile. “I’m sure I don’t know what you mean. In any case, it’s a bit odd of you to call me. After all, we did break up. You remember that, I’m sure.”

You could practically hear the leather of his gloves crunching (is it crunching I forgot-) as he clenched a fist, keeping hold of his restraint.

The two of you had been dancing around each other like cat and mouse. Though at this point, who was the cat and who was the mouse was anyone’s guess.

Despite having gotten to the point of breaking up, you ended up missing him a lot. And thus you began the dance only to find his hand already waiting for you. It was unspoken that you both wanted the same thing. But every time he drew closer, you’d pull back. A frustrating back and forth that seemed to confuse him. Aventurine was sure you wanted him back. And yet you never let the cat finally catch his prey. Why? He didn’t get it.

“Oh sweetheart- Let’s not keep pretending, yes? I know you’ve been trying to catch my attention. You can’t hide your intentions.”

“Seems it’s working, then.”

It was true. You had been doing things to keep Aventurine’s eyes on you. Despite playing a game of keep away with him with how you’d draw him in and push him away, you didn’t want him looking at anyone else. At the same time, you weren’t sure if you’d truly be willing to get together again. What if the train went off the tracks again? The first time had been rough enough with the two of you waging a passive aggressive war and pointedly ignoring each other at some points.

And thus, this odd little game of yours. One that Aventurine was growing tired of it he had finally called you.

“Let’s talk in person, shall we?” “What-?”

A knock at the door. No fucking way- You opened the door to see your favorite the blond man himself.

“Hiya, darling dearest~”

“Aventurine.”

“No need to be like that. I was serious about that talk.” He then pulled a bouquet of your favorite flowers out from behind his back. “For you,” Aventurine said with that stupid charming smirk of his. You squinted at him for a moment before accepting the flowers with a huff and a faux annoyed, “Fine.”

You were a bit conflicted. You were excited that he was here. Especially because he seemed desperate enough to actually seek you out and talk to you in person. But at the same time this was not something you calculated or expected to happen.

“I know you’re glad to see me. You don’t have to pretend,” he practically purred as you shot a glare over your shoulder, still keeping up appearances. “Oh but of course- I’m absolutely just tickled pink.”

Aventurine chuckled, tipping his head down to look at you over his shades, lids low and eyes practically glowing. “You always did have a way with words, sweetheart.”

He then took off the sunglasses (and oh that was another stupid, dorky little thing about him you found oddly endearing- shades inside a building- stupid silly adorable man-) and plopped down on your couch while you put the flowers down on the counter in the kitchen. You’d deal with them later. For now you had him to deal with. You sat in the chair instead of the couch. He pouted playfully about it, but didn’t comment. “I’ll cut to the chase- I want you back. And I know you want me back, too. I just can’t figure out why you’re leading me closer and then shoving me away. I’m starting to get the feeling you just like my attention. But even so- We both know the truth. So why don’t you just give in, lovely? I know you want to,” he said, surprisingly not using the old song and dance of leading someone around to get the information he wanted. He didn’t talk in circles and didn’t even seem all that flirty despite his words. He was… oddly serious.

“And what about the reason we broke up before?” You didn’t even try to pretend anymore. Aventurine has always been able to see right through you. That ability had clearly not gone anywhere. “I can’t make promises, but we can talk. We’ll work something out. I’ll even compromise on it.” Compromise was not an Aventurine word. Any deals he made were made in his favor without the other person even knowing what they were going to lose. Your incredulity must have been showing on your face more than you thought because he laughed lightly, the sound somehow dry- tired and heavy. “I see that look. I’m serious, baby. I’m sorry I ever let you go. You’re the only one who stayed. The only one who has stuck around. I need you. I’ll give it all to you. My attention, my trust, my… my heart, even. You don’t have to play these games to make me want you.”

Now you feel a bit guilty. But at the same time, elated. Even before you broke up, he never once brought up matters of trust and love. He seemed far too uncomfortable even edging around the topic. But now Aventurine was the first one to bring it up.

You said nothing but silently stood. And his eyes dimmed, waiting for disappointment. But then you walked over and sat next to him, pulling him into a hug. “I missed you, Aven.”

He let out a shaky sigh and wrapped you up in his embrace, arms tight around you.

“Kakavasha.”

“What?”

“You should tell me, ‘I missed you, Kakavasha,’” he (Kakavasha?) said, his voice was shaky with emotion.

“I… I missed you, Kakavasha.”

“And I love you, sweetheart.”

[moonsaver]

I would lose all my dignity and self-respect if we ever saw a glimpse of aeon sunday

[46hasu]

RobinHill Guardian Angel!AU where Robin is a guardian angel assigned to protect Boothill's daughter but Boothill gets seriously injured somehow and basically needs all the prosthetics from his canon version. And despite Boothill's best efforts he doesnt have the abilty to raise his daughter alone cause of his painfully slow recovery process, so Robin decides to step in and breaks the Do Not Be Seen and No Direct Interference rules to basically take over half the parenting duties. The familys life does improve and Boothill's daughter is happier but Boothill is half convinced that his home is haunted by a suspiciously friendly ghost that he can only see from the corner of his eyes and Robin tries her best not to get caught so she doesn't get in trouble from Heaven or whatever.

[hyia]

sunday :3

Silly his bald 👴👴👴

Here's the art:

Ya you know what to do follow @/ h3y1aa 😈😈😈

[wynterrolls]

HSR FAQ 𖡻 How much CRIT RATE is enough for your DPS?

Answer

High Investment:

Single-hit DPS or low-hit count DPS = at least 80% to 85% crit rate (achievable if you have lightcone that has crit passive or you have good crit rolls in your relic substats); [more than 85% would be on whale territory or hardcore minmax territory already]

Multi-hit count DPS = 70% crit rate

Good enough Investment:

Single-hit DPS or low-hit DPS = 70% crit rate

Multi-hit count DPS = 60% crit rate

Low Investment:

Single-hit DPS or low-hit DPS = 60% crit rate

Multi-hit count DPS = 50% crit rate

Explanation

To start off, I've always wondered why are the results of my damage calculations tend to be low values when compared to the damage calcs done by other people. As you can see from my previous attempts on rubbing my 2 braincells together and dealing with numbers in my Yukong and Pela TLDR builds, the values are pretty low.

I know I've followed the process done in the sample damage calculations provided in the sources, but I simply can't replicate the same big dmg numbers you see in other calcs.

Then one day, while I'm scrolling around in Dr. Ratio Mains subreddit, I've come across a post asking about the ideal crit% for E0S1 Dr. Ratio, and one of the answers there caught my eye. The answer of u/Bajuu mentioned that Dr. Ratio is a low hit count DPS like Seele so that he should be built with at least 80% crit rate.

However, I don't know what "low hit count DPS" means, so I went ahead and searched around in Google and the official HSR subreddit what it means but to no avail, it didn't gave me any answer nor clue, so as a last resort, I asked in a help channel in official HSR Discord server, in which two people (viasvias and skylow1112) have answered my question at last.

They mentioned that low hit means low attack tick per attack. An example for this is that when it comes to Seele ultimate, it only has 1 attack tick, while Jing Yuan's Lightning Lord deals multiple attack ticks.

(Sample images below showing Seele ult showcase from u/solidus_snake256 and Jing Yuan's LL showcase from Nerf1352.)

I asked as well if the number of attack ticks are specified in the trace multipliers or kit of the character, however, they answered that it wasn't mentioned and that it could only be seen in actual gameplay.

This means there's no way for me to know how many attack ticks each unit have by just reading their kit in the game. I have to use them in trial battle first to know how many attack ticks does their kit have when they deal damage.

-

On the day of writing this post, I saw a similar post asking what is the minimum crit rate for Dr. Ratio, and upon checking the comments, the answer made by u/Minute_Fig_3979 also has similar answer above.

They mentioned that there are two types of damage dealers - single hit or low hit count DPS and multi-hit count DPS. However, their answer mentioned more about the recommended crit rate for each type. Low hit count DPS needs higher crit rate in order to make up for their lack of multi-hit, while multi-hit count DPS could settle with lesser crit rate and further invest more into other stats due to their multi-hit nature.

Think of this scenario.

When dealing damage against a single enemy, if your DPS only deals 1 hit count like Seele, you'd want them to at least deal crit hit on this one chance so that all the efforts of setting up the buffs on them and debuffs applied to enemies won't go to waste. By building higher crit rate, this gives you higher chance so that your low hit count DPS could at least crit.

However, when it comes to multi-hit count DPS like Jing Yuan, even if you have lesser crit rate than the low hit count DPS, his Lightning Lord would have more chances of dealing crit hits at the enemy. So instead of hyper-investing crit rate on your Jing Yuan, that you'd need to do with your Seele, you could allocate the relic substat rolls into getting more ATK% and crit dmg for him.

-

Example of low-hit count:

Seele's Ultimate (1 tick)

Dr. Ratio's Skill, Follow-up Attack (FuA), and Ultimate (1 tick each)

4* Danheng Ultimate (1 tick)

Blade's Ultimate (1 tick)

Jingliu's Ultimate (1 tick)

Blade's Talent (3 ticks)

-

Example of multi-hit count:

Jing Yuan's Lightning Lord

Dan Heng - Imbibitor Lunae's 3EBA and Ultimate

Topaz's Skill and FuA Talent

Jingliu's Enhanced Basic Attack

-

The recommended crit rate varies a lot according to who is answering the question. So I'll just create some kind of simplified categorization for the variety of recommendations.

High Investment:

Single-hit DPS or low-hit count DPS = at least 80% to 85% crit rate, achievable if you have lightcone that has crit passive or you have good crit rolls in your relic substats (more than 85% would be on whale territory or hardcore minmax territory already)

Multi-hit count DPS = 70% crit rate

Good enough Investment:

Single-hit DPS or low-hit DPS = 70% crit rate

Multi-hit count DPS = 60% crit rate

Low Investment:

Single-hit DPS or low-hit DPS = 60% crit rate

Multi-hit count DPS = 50% crit rate

-

With the two sources of answer above, I think I now have an idea as to why my earlier dilemma has those small value results.

Calcs made by other people have considered multiple factors affecting their calculations.

having team mates in the calc

calculating the team dmg output in rotation-based setup

having considered the speed and action value of teammates that would affect the SPD and AV of the character you are calculating

(probably, not sure) considering the number of attack ticks of units in actual gameplay in the calculations.

These are just some of the reasons as to why my calcs from before are on the lower side, but it doesn't mean that my calcs are wrong. I just happened to consider only the most basic dmg conditions compared to them using complex dmg conditions in their theorycrafting, hence the results I got are low values only.

Source

Minimum Crit Rate Question by u/EthansFin

Seele 100k Damage - Simulated Universe by u/solidus_snake256

Jing Yuan Everyday Damage Showcase by Nerf1352

Ideal Crit% for E0S1 Question by u/HaakMilk

2.6m Blade Ultimate DMG Showcase by Kan~

Jingliu Build 4 Set Quantum vs 4 Set Ice Damage Comparison by Areha

Topaz 4pc Grand Duke vs 2P Fire 2P ATK Damage Comparison by Areha

Dan Heng DMG Progress by ☆rui☆

DHIL + 1870% Crit Damage | Swam Disaster by fatty flip

Blade Wind DMG% vs HP% Planar Sphere Damage Comparison by Areha

Dr. Ratio Trial Gameplay by Mr.Nothing Gaming

Uploaded on Patch 1.6

➥ Back to my HSR masterlist.

Update Log

01/15/2024 - Uploaded this post

01/16/2024 - Added a scenario that describes the difference between low-hit count DPS and multi-hit count DPS

[electric-plants]

having jiaoqiu is crazy because i just know that even if he did absolutely nothing like no damage apply no dots i would STILL just be over here like YESSS LOOK AT HIM GO❤️❤️ GIVING US EVERYTHING❤️❤️❤️❤️

[iamacultest]

So i was playing speed draw with a friend and they dont play hsr but i have shown them Aventurine but that was awhile ago so when this beautiful work of art came up she was: "Wait- is that a character from an anime or something? I feel like ive seen that character before" she was trying so hard to remember meanwhile im laughing my ass off.

[silencer-lemonade]

Caged Bird or Free Bird || Based on post below

[ REBLOGS >> LIKES ]

[sunderingstars]

જ⁀➴ i literally have the entire beginning of an aha!sampo analysis project sitting in my drafts but i haven’t gotten up the courage to post it yet, so i figured i’d do a check to see if people are interested LOL

edit: the people have spoken, and i have answered :3