#hetalia discussion

[temtamtom]

Italy, for the longest time, was divided into a variety of kingdoms/city states/etc. Which, if you're interested in Historical Hetalia, can make it difficult to characterize Romano and Veneziano pre-unification.

I'm wondering what you guys characterize them as? Atm, I usually go with Veneziano = Republic of Venice, and Romano = Kingdom of Naples (though the latter one has some nuance I'm working out bc of some history).

I don't wanna start an argument or anything, I'm just curious about other people's interpretations :o There really aren't any right or wrong answers to this!

[royaltea000]

he could not control the class 😔

[renonv]

Mega dump of fairy au… bear w me here

first comes Antonio’s crush on the human that is Romano

He visits him frequently, just to observe.. but one day Arthur catches wind of this and thinks that Antonio is in kahoots w a human

So he decides to take care of the problem

But oops, Romano actually wasn’t aware of the fairies before 😭 but now he is and he’s small and unfortunately at the moment there is not a way to turn him back

So now he has to live w them…

And of course… Antonio and Romano bond while Romano actively tries to find his way back home

This is all for now, oh! One last thing

The fairy prince,,, w his dragon fly wings

[unhetalia]

I think Nations are generally stronger than the average human. If an adult male can carry up to 80kgs without too much difficulty, a fully grown Nation can do around 3x that amount, no matter their gender.

Alfred is an abberation in that he could carry animals that weigh at LEAST 400kg as a child. This has nothing to do with the US' status as a superpower because it's been that way since he was a child (and also because my headcanon doesn't connect the Nations with their countries in that way).

Without delving too deep as to why, I've always liked the idea of Alfred's increased strength coming with a few caveats -

1) As he's gotten older, his strength has acquired limitations it never had when he was a child - the main one being that using it requires energy. If he wants to be able to lift a car, he absolutely can, but he needs to eat a lot, otherwise his blood sugar will crash. Alfred eats a lot and constantly, and this is part of the reason (the other part is that food is delicious).

2) Alfred is so used to relying on his strength, it's become his weakness without him even realising it.

Alfred views exercise the same way most modern humans view it: he exercises to stay healthy. He hikes, he bikes, he plays sports, and if he thinks he's gained weight he promises himself he'll go to the gym (he doesn't).

Nations like Arthur, Ivan, Erzsebet and Gilbert - to name a few - who don't have super strength, hone their bodies into weapons with purpose. I love to imagine (for many reasons) a sweaty Arthur, hands wrapped in boxing gauze and wearing a tank top ... erm. Punching stuff. I distracted myself there. ANYWAY. They're incredibly disciplined about maintaining their skills and fitness.

Alfred is reliant on his super strength. If it disappears one day, he's actually a lot less capable of defending himself than he thinks.

[uzukibeans]

some of yall like to shit on the fundamental idea of national personifications for being cringe, but the fact i am seeing miku worldwide, east asia yuri, and the whole meme about folks reinventing hetalia every few years really goes to show that people love national personifications.

and i am not saying this to dismiss criticisms of it -- both in terms of media (anti-korean narratives in hetalia, the widespread antisemitism in the countryhumans fandom) and in actual ..literal... propaganda (e.g. bharat mata, lady liberty/uncle sam, etc.)

but.. maybe i'll be torched for this, but i do think what matters most is not the fundamental concept but moreso how people choose to engage with with it. and saying that does not mean disregarding all of the issues listed above! stay critical.

but people just love personifying things. to give an abstract concept human/familiar traits has been human beings' way of understanding and perceiving the world since our very existence. so it isn't surprising that nation/imagined community, something many of us hold intrinsic to forming our sense of self, is often subject to personifying.

and i would argue that this love extends to other media that isn't explicitly about national personifications but has a nationally diverse cast (e.g. yuri on ice, street fighter, etc.). obviously it's not 1:1 as the characters in these media are understood to be ... regular people. but i think it would be a purposefully obtuse reading to not account for the appeal of national representation (hell, in yuri on ice they are literally representing for their nation).

regardless of whether or not you like/dislike national personifications, i just wanted to express that the concept itself is not niche and i don't think it should be surprising that lots of people engage with it through a medium they enjoy.

[timomoe]

What are your thoughts about the split between the immortal personification as an individual and the immortal personification as a symbol of the state? I read your post about Sweden's (the character) cruel behavior in the past and can't say I agree with it. I think there should be a clear separation between the actions of the state and the personification. It's more reasonable that a personification is a representative of the culture and people, not a state's authorities alone. It's also vulnerable to historical bias when certain sources can cast historical events in a very positive or negative light, for instance the idea that Swedish authorities were exceptionally cruel to Finland, which is unusually negative and not a fair representation of the relationship between them in my (Swedish) experience.

Besides, making the personification carry out the actions of the state also means that the fictional character affected real-life historical events. The unfortunate implication is lessening or excusing the actions of the real people who planned and carried out those events.

See, the thing about this is that while Sweden is a personification of the people, and I typically think of nations as such, they're still people. People who can and probably have fallen prey to propaganda, lies, "re-education" in Sweden's case, and other such things.

To be more specific, I'll share more of my hcs regarding him with you.

I like to think there's a 50/50 split between a nation first being a human, dying, and becoming a nation, and a rep just appearing one day. Sweden was the former, born around 900.

He was a very weak and sickly child born to the old Norse - and this is a very bad thing. You may know that Spartans would abandon sick/weak/disabled kids to die, but did you know that the old Norse did the same thing? When Sweden was about 4, his parents abandoned him in the woods, and he died. And then he came back, as he was "chosen" to be the nation of Sweden. His parents then tried to get rid of him 3 more times (abandoned him in the woods one more time, and threw him in the ocean twice).

No one really knew what to make of him or what to do with him. Was he a god? A demigod? An evil entity? Half jotun? No one really knew, so they kept a distance between him and the rest of the group. They kept him busy with menial labor they didn't want to do.

Sweden went unwanted and unloved by his people for the ENTIRE TIME he was a child. And then the kingdom of Sweden properly formed, and he was taken to live with his royals. He was fed there, clothed well, given medical care, education, everything he could ever want. And he began to internalize the idea that he owed his existence to the royalty, NOT the people, as the people had been his biggest antagonists since the day he walked back out of the forest and back to his family. And the government took full advantage of this. Who wouldn't want an undying soldier to do everything they asked?

I would also like to note that I explicitly (/lh) stated that Sweden's cruelty and Finland's abhorrent treatment were not due to any exceptionally horrible history between the two; while Sweden DID colonize Finland, it wasn't as nasty as my out of context headcanons would lead you to believe. As said in that post, Sweden's cruelty towards Finland came from their personalities being exactly opposite, Sweden being hungry for control and dominance, being under intense pressure, and Finland taking the blame or covering for mishaps by other nations in the house, making Sweden believe that he was simply the worst behaved and most in need of a harsh lesson.

As a side note, we also have characters being forced to do things by their government canonically (such as mass killing as a specific example, Russia participated in Bloody Sunday, despite not wanting to) so to me it also seems correct that a government would also take advantage of a young and frightened boy and try to turn him into a soldier fit for whatever purpose they need him for. Even if they are a representative of the people, the government can still force them to do what they want, and probably could make them believe that they do represent the government.

Note that your last point is specifically why I never mention what events, what battles, or other such things Sweden is involved in. It does separate them a little. And I understand that this sort of thing isn't for everyone, and that's perfectly fine.

[staralite]

I’ve always thought about why Francis taught Matthew to called him “papa” while Arthur told Alfred that they were brothers.

I suppose once personifications get colonies they have the power to create whatever relationship they want with that colony. And remember, they’re still “human” in a way. So most of them decide that they want their new colonies to have a sort of familial relationship with them.

Arthur went down the “older brother” path with his colonies because of his own older brothers. He grew up the youngest and wanted to be the older one for once. He was probably picked on when he was little and was under the impression that he would be a “so much better and nicer” older brother.

Also throughout history he was pretty terrible and cruel to his older brothers. So he kinda screwed up his relationship with them. I can see Arthur looking at Alfred, thinking that this would be his “second chance.” Ya he ended up screwing that up as well. Nice job Arthur.

Idk as nations familial relationships are just complicated. Imagine being someone’s older brother while also being their literal colonizer. But as beings who outlive any humans they meet, they’re really only able to make that sort of connection with each other. Because getting that close to any human will inevitably just lead to heartbreak.

I can go on a whole nother rant about how the nations are probably always battling with what it means to be a personification—with what they feel is their duty to their own people and country—and battling with just being human. Like humans they want to experience love and friendship and want families.

Arthur viewed Alfred as his little brother, but he also viewed Alfred as his colony. America was this child he loved cared for and America was this piece of land that he colonized and controlled.

Anyway I’ve made myself sad now.

[doomspiral]

I keep going back and forth on what Pru's uniform is in canon and have reached a conclusion that is making me lose my mind.

I already ran this by Proosh and Kasia, but I think it's plausible, given who Himaruya is as a person and an artist, that he drew and color picked Gilbert’s uniform from the Producers "Springtime For Hitler" scene, and not from a uniform guide, old photos, or antiques/repros.

Exhibit A:

I think Gil's is blue. Because this stage lighting was blue. And given he went to school in New York and has watched things like Schnaas shock-horror films, among other insane media references, it isn't off the table for him to make a choice or reference like this.

Anyway, consider this my redaction on claiming he isn't in SS. How I feel about that in the meta is a whole other discussion.

[tianshiisdead]

Trends are funny, aren't they? Yk, Historical Hetalia fans and Hetalia fans who treat countries critically are still in the minority. Perhaps we're overrepresented in the fandom due to a lot of us being adults/a little older, which leads to more content and more polish, but I've seen a strange sort of backlash of people irritated with satirical or darker depictions when these depictions only make up a small percentage of each character's tag. As gently as I can, it's totally fine to be fond of softness and kindness, but if you're in a history and state based fandom, it won't be unusual to see people invested in history applying that darker aspect as well. If I may add, it's an aspect that was more closely referenced in early Hetalia, which leaned more into satire (don't tell me about how dub and sub are diff I watched the JP original).

[kitkat-the-muffin]

All roads lead to Dreamtalia

[ifindus]

Scotland: We should at least ask. Norway, what do you think?

Norway: No comment.

I don't know if anyone outside the UK or Norway has heard about this, but Orkney has been looking into other forms of govern and they suggested they become a territory of Norway, operating independently. The UK has since said that this is unacceptable and will NOT be happening regardless. The official Norwegian response was basically just "this is an internal affair, no comment".

[ask-nyc-boroughs]

NYC and rest of the state basically solidified its wealth &power in the northeast with the completion of the Erie Canal in 1825.

This was really the beginning of Lynn/NYC’s present “girl boss” arc as she began to get a taste of excessive power in this era.

Also the beginning of her rather let’s say tumultuous relationship with Will/ Albany. The Erie Canal already brought these two cities closer by making trade even easier to conduct along the Hudson River.

Will tends to be rather reserved, and very stubborn- talking to him is like scratching nails across a chalkboard. A lot of people calls him boring (and a pain in the ass cause he tries to act impartial but he’s always partial to Lynn- even when she’s being a nuisance and driving him crazy). Sometimes Lynn can be let’s say overly ambitious to a fault that can harm everyone else, and Will tends to pull the breaks on that which is often the source of conflict between them. They’re opposites fundamentally. But they compliment each other. Lynn can get him out of his shell, and actually be sociable. Will keeps Lynn in reality lol, and he is a calming influence on her most of the time.

[grimmji]

Hetalia x Dungeon Meshi AU. Discuss.

Ex: Who would be what race? What would be their preferred weapons/favorite spells? Attitude towards eating monsters? etc.

[transparentalia]

Italy with different outfits transparents 🧡

world cuuuup world cuuuupp

[irithnova]

One of the funniest things I've seen someone say is "I hate when people try to FORCE POLITICS into HISTORICAL HETALIA" girl I have really bad news for you

[arthurianlegend144]

I think it's actually pretty difficult to pinpoint what's the real age of the nations in Hetalia, because you need to assume a bunch of things that you don't actually know.

For example, France. He is named after Francia, the land of the Franks, who are germanics, is he Germanic then? So what's his relation to Rome and Gaul? And how does this interfere in the year he just showed up?

I have the headcannon that all personifications are born way before the nations they represent actually exist and they all live in a horribly deterministic world. For me it makes sense, like look at America. The United States wasn't a thing, it wasn't even one colony, it was 13, but just one personification? It means that he was already there to represent a country that didn't exist yet.

So what do y'all think?