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loopyarts · 16 days ago

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Yes yes thousands times yes you get it and I wholeheartedly agree with you. 👏👏👏

Here mate let me give you a few more examples of them seeing each other as father and son. It honestly baffles me how people think this is somehow a modern concept to their relationship. That some folks even imply that DC in the modern day is making them this way because of heteronormative means and American nuclear family values. Or in an attempt to erase a deep male friendship or the original intention of them being brothers and that they were never supposed to be read as father and son which is simply isn’t true.

Seriously shot me, like I went out of my way to fact check just to make sure that I wasn’t second guessing myself. Like here is the truth about them they were always all three dammit bestie/brothers/father/son this is how they always were. 👏👏👏

The Trial of Bruce Wayne.”Batman #57 By Bill Finger, art Dick Sprang and Charles Paris released in 1950 Golden Age. Here’s an example of an outsider saying that Bruce loves that kid like he was his own son and an example of Dick saying you’re like a father to me to Bruce.

Not having father/son relationship coding in the comics they say, they're only brothers they say, they’re only partners/good friends they say. Like come on people can you not read subtext it’s right bloody there. One of the most on the nose example was from Batman #66 written by Bill finger art Bob Kane, Lew Sayre Schwartz, Charles Paris released in August-September 1951 Golden Age.

Also worth noting Bruce being an overbearing and controlling father figure at times with Dick is nothing new as well. Dick’s perfectionism and wanting to please his father figure who he idolises is something that goes way back even to his Golden Age and Silver Age version of the character.

Panels from Detective Comics #228, Written by Jack Schiff Henry Boltinoff Jack Miller art by Win Mortimer, Bob Kane, Ruben Moreira, Henry Boltinoff, Joe Certa, Ira Schnapp, editor Whitney Ellsworth released in December 20, 1955-February 1956 Golden Age.

Here’s another example of Dick acknowledging that he see Bruce like a father. Also I added the panel of Dick punching Bruce because one I thought it was funny and two he totally deserves a good socking every once in a while.

Robin’s new boss Batman #137 written by Bill Finger, art by Sheldon Moldoff and Charles Paris released in February, 1961 Silver Age. Bruce again saying he’s like a father to Dick.

Another example from the Silver age era is World’s Finest #195 by written by Jack Miller, Bob Haney, art by Curt Swan, Ross Andru, Howard Sherman, editors Mort Weisinger, E. Nelson Bridwell released in August 1970. Like damn even in the bloody Silver Age where they were written to be seen as brothers mostly the father/son thing still pops up.

Batman #339 by Written by Gerry Conway, Pencilers Irv Novick, Inkers Steve Mitchell, Colorists Adrienne Roy, Letterers Ben Oda, Editors Dick Giordano, Dave Manak released in September, 1981 Bronze Age. Man this comic page is so beautiful to me. Also an example of Dick seeing his mother and father within Bruce and how he sees him like a second father.

Batman #438 by Written by Marv Wolfman, Penciler Pat Broderick, Inker John Beatty, Colorist Adrienne Roy, Letterer John Costanza released in September 1989 Modern Age.

An example of Dick saying he was like a father to me and how he loves his second father despite well Bruce being mostly an ass in the Modern Age era of comics.

Batman #439 written by Marv Wolfman, art Pat Broderick and Michael Bair released in September 1989 Modern Age.

The main conflict of the adoption drama was honestly more recent than one would think. Marv Wolfman was the one who started this whole Dick not wanting Bruce as a father and that he already has a father John Grayson making it be an actually issue; when it really wasn’t beforehand. Like as I have shown in the Golden Age and Silver Age even the Bronze Age examples Dick wasn’t necessarily that shy about letting it slip every once in a while that he viewed Bruce as like a second father.

But then again Dick was a freshly traumatised young lad, when this court of custody was happening within this comic universe. But even so this blend of Bronze and Modern Age Dick still viewed Bruce as a father figure despite being so bitter and hurt by how he was treated by him in this era. A mediocre to rubbish dad is still well a dad.

But overall the father/son thing was pretty consistent in all of the eras of comics with them. Which makes sense to me after all one of Batman main cores of his character is being father/parental figure and without Robin/Dick Grayson that would have never happened.

Batman #340 by Written by Gerry Conway and Roy Thomas, Penciler Gene Colan, Inker Adrian Gonzales, Colorist Adrienne Roy, Letterer Ben Oda released in July 9, 1981 Bronze Age.

Slightly off topic but thank you Bronze Age Bruce. So at least in this comic it nice to know they were using an older version of the Law of Wardship. Here’s a link to a paper that dives into USA Wardship/Guardianship in the 1900s it’s a very interesting read. :3c

https://scholar.smu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1090&context=law_faculty

Now about the brothers thing I think what has happened is that people have taken Bill finger interview from 1972 recently rediscovered in 2011 to heart. Here’s a quote from that interview ‘I thought of it in terms of … Frank Merriwell and Dick Merriwell, his half-brother, who was the kid he was taking care of. …’.

Here’s a link to the interview if care to read it for yourself. I cry because the ghost of that book author still haunts Bruce and Dick to this very day.

https://www.noblemania.com/2012/02/batman-and-robin-gay-bill-finger-said.html

But what I have noticed is that people seemed to have missed something about what he was saying. Frank Merriwell was taking care of his little half brother Dick Merriwell perhaps as a parental figure to him. I have no idea because I haven’t read the books, so I am not completely too sure myself on that front. But it would seem to me that maybe Bill was interested in the parental angle of their relationship. 🤔

Also, I do wish to say that I don’t think Bill was not completely sure on how to describe Bruce and Dick relationship. However, that doesn’t change the fact that in the comics he did write them as father/son as well.

I feel maybe when he was first starting out writing them as characters. He thought of them as Hero/sidekick, mentor/mentee, friends or just brothers but overtime he started to see them as father and son too and begin to write them as such. It is normal for a creative idea or concept of characters to change and evolve overtime as they come to understand said characters. Another thing I should say is this is just Bill perspective on things and his words are not the be all end all but that’s just me.

I also think it’s good to keep in mind that adoption for a single men was next to impossible back then and only couples and potentially single women could have adopted but that in itself was rare as well. I’m too lazy to want to go over these two adoption history so here some links to some posts about it.

I do wonder if the cause of this misinformation about them in the comics being just only good friends was caused by folks who only knew Batman and Robin from the 60s to 80s the show and cartoons where Dick in the Batman 1966 show was fifteen year old teenager rather then an 8-10 year old child and was also played an adult actor Burt ward and well of course no one was going to buy that this adult man was a teenage ward.

In the cartoon The Adventures Of Batman at least Dick looked somewhat like a teenager but again. He was only referred to as Bruce’s ward, partner or his friend. Their relationship was the dynamic duo. Super Friends as well referred to their relationship as the dynamic duo or friends or again Bruce’s ward.

By the 90s we finally got Dick as a child in Robin Reckoning in Batman The Animated Series which meant the father and son vibes were on full display. But still he’s just Bruce’s ward and friend but there are tie in comics which do give some content in terms of baby Robin Dick Grayson and Bruce being a father figure to him.

And so on so on. Only the movies Batman Forever and Batman and Robin made Dick an older teen play again by an adult actor so them being just friends would be suitable. Then again cough those films are full of gay subtext and well I am not surprised by that given that the director was a gay man. But again this is an adaptation which has nothing to do with the comics and honestly is very different overall from said comics.

More modern cartoons like Teen Titans, The Batman 2004 and Young Justice. All have father and son subtext to them. Which makes sense they were more closer to the spirit of the comics overall. Teen Titans Dick Grayson even though we don’t see Batman in the show the episode called the apprentice heavily implies when he said I already have a father to be Batman given the bat imagery after it was said.

Okay enough of the very brief history lesson on the show and cartoons of Batman. But again these are at the end of day adaptations which nothing to do with the comic canon and are in their own separate continuity from the comics. However I can see why it was easy at least back in early days to make that mistake and to think of them being father/son was somehow a new thing if they hadn’t never pick up a comic book or even read up on the golden and silver age comics overall.

Oh another thing worth mentioning is the fact comics the Golden, Silver and Bronze Age were not fully preserved most of them were thrown away because they weren’t seen as important literature at the time and thanks to the infamous book if you know you know. Well it caused a lot of parents to throw out or burns most of their kids comic book collections which is why so many older comics of today are so rare. So with that in mind it could be that back then without a way to fact check comics through an archive or the internet, I could see how this misinformation could have been spread.

It an absolute miracle that almost all of the Golden and Silver Batman and Robin comics were preserved. Although, sadly the Bronze Age of Batman comics is still sadly missing some issues to this day.

Seriously, people have no idea how much damage that book caused and the comic code in general. It shattered the comic book industry and made most of the genres that were not superhero comics die out and even then comics were still treated like junk literature despite the code being in place which kept most comics from being seen as nothing more but a children medium for a very long time and having little to no value outside of that. Comic books fans need to thank the people from the Bronze Age era and the underground Comix movement for pushing against the code and being finally able to tell deeper and more complex stories with comics and do different types of comic book genres again overall in America again. Without that push I would say comics wouldn’t be where they’re today.

So I will forgive all the older folks who did not know this was a thing given that most comics were throw away after said child was done reading it back then. However what I will not forgive is the ones who know this was a thing and lie about it. What so you have to gain about lying about comic book lore and history behind the characters of Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson.

Anyway, that was my kind of essay and my overall thoughts and opinions on the matter. 😅

"Bruce and Dick weren't always like father and son in the comics." "The idea of Bruce and Dick being like father and son came much later." "They were supposed to be like brothers, originally."

An issue from the 40's:

Batman #20, published by DC Comics in December 1943 and January 1944.

Narrator: [...] Since that day, the mutual affection between this man and the boy has been as strong as that between father and son! [...]

I'm not saying their relationship was like father and son from the very beginning since they met. They would've needed time to develop that kind of bond in-universe. And I'm not denying their relationship being similar to that of brothers as well, since they've been described like that, too. From Dick's perspective, specially, I can see why some might think calling them brothers would be more fitting.

That said, it's still incorrect to claim the writers didn't intend them to be like father and son in the first years since their first comic appearance together. It's very clear they wanted to portray that kind of relationship with them. Although, it might be more explicit from Bruce's POV, since it appears that to Dick Bruce was more of a close friend, and it took longer for him to see Bruce as a father.

Anyway, I respect any opinions on the matter. I just made this post to keep in mind what's canon in the comics.

#Fandom nonsense #Comic book history #I feel nothing but shame to see people older than me bluntly lie like that about their comic book history.#Don’t let others gaslight you into thinking them being father/son is something new in the comics.#Like I said they’re all three friend/brothers/father/son they cannot be defined by a traditional nuclear family label.#they are father and son but they're also a lot more than that you cant place their relationship in one dynamic.#Seriously I still get psychic damage every time I see someone say that them father/son is something new or says they were never father/son.#Also apologies for big ass essay kind of but this was driving me crazy. That I want out of way and did their homework and research for them #That’s his son your honour.#Batman #Hit the books #Comic book essay

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