#helluva boss discourse

[helluva-headache]

I try usually to not get into discourse about the shows because it's exhausting but I'm just throwing this out there because it's bouncing around in my brain.

It's kinda wild to me how many Stolas haters there are that genuinely don't believe Stolas is going to have any sort of reckoning when it comes to his class/racial bias.

I've even seen people go as far as say the writers of the show are "just going to let it slide" and Stolas "won't face any consequences".

Like... the writers are the ones who wrote in Stolas' class/racial bias to begin with.

During Harvest Moon Festival, they purposefully show a shot of the crowd looking angry as Stolas addresses them as "tiny wrath ring imps".

The writers wrote Striker's dialogue in Harvest Moon Festival and Western Energy, clearly showing his distaste for royals and the disparity between classes. They wouldn't do this, especially in the scenes where Striker is talking directly about/to Stolas, if this wasn't going to be an important issue that will be addressed down the line.

It's even brought up in Full Moon and Apology Tour. In Full Moon, Blitzø's anger towards Stolas' attitude regarding imps is the climax of their argument at the end of the episode. He may not have expressed it in a way that Stolas would be entirely receptive to in that moment, but it's a huge first step as this is the first time Blitzø is directly expressing his frustration to Stolas' face.

And then in Apology Tour we have Stolas saying to Blitzø "I don't look down on you!" and "When have I ever?-" and then goes on to compare Blitzø's attitude to Striker's. This conversation is derailed when Stolas finds out about the first assassination attempt, but their conversation here is another big step in the right direction. This conversation shows Blitzø, and us in the audience, that Stolas doesn't actively believe he's better than imps, but passively without realizing it treats imps as if they are lesser.

This is important because it distinguishes Stolas' behavior from that of someone with malicious intent, perhaps like how Andrealphus did when referring to Striker as a "mangy stray". This distinction shows us that Stolas is capable of change. He's never had a reason to examine his class/racial bias, until he met Blitzø.

All this to say there are too many breadcrumbs intentionally left by the writers for this topic to not be addressed at some point. I understand some people who are especially fans of Blitzø may be upset because of a literal "anti-Blitzø party" in Apology Tour, and might feel like the show is unfairly digging at Blitzø without addressing Stolas' wrongs. However, I feel like it's reasonable for Blitzø's issues to be addressed first as he is the main character. And based on the season 2 trailer, I don't doubt that in one of the next few episodes the show will be digging into Stolas as well.

The show isn't over yet. If a major character flaw that has been referred to in multiple episodes throughout the entire series hasn't been formally addressed yet, trust the writers to address it before the show is completed.

[helluvahusker]

Gotta be real, I do not understand why people are wasting their time arguing over who Vassago is going to be to Stolas and why whatever they think will be good/bad. Like babygirls. None of us know. We won't know until the episodes are released. Maybe wait to argue with strangers over Vassago until we have him canonically? Idk. Maybe that's just me.

[fizzyrodeo]

"blitzø is the worst character-!"

"no, it's obviously stolas!! nobody should like stolas-!!"

me, in the corner, holding back a four-hour rant about loona;

(and i'm not attacking the voice actor for things she's went through, because for some reason whenever someone criticises loona there's always one person who goes 'the voice actor was having a rough time so that's why loona was off'. i am not criticizing how loona didn't have any lines for an entire episode or how she was out of the picture for a little bit. i'm talking about how she's a pos to moxxie— who's only crime that i can recall is calling her out for her bs and blitzø for enabling her— and blitzø, which is wild when she's probably the one person in the cast that blitzø has put his best self forth for, 100% of the time. the only remotely sound argument i can think of is 'loona missed out on childhood due to being homeless which is why she's acting so immature and crude now that she's adopted' but that doesn't change the fact that she treats the one person who deeply cares for her like he's garbage- UNLESS he's not in a coherent state.)

[baobhanlore-art]

Just watched Exes and Oohs and I wish we'd get a more Millie centric episode. Despite Millie dating Chaz we hardly got any backstory between them and the only thing it went towards was Blitz's jokes. Millie would have still been mad at Chaz after hearing about what he did to Moxxie.

And yes, we get badass fight scenes from her but we don't get much more. She's hardly changed throughout the show so far and only ever loves Moxxie and protects Moxxie and exist for Moxxie. She doesn't even sing her big dramatic song, it's background music.

Maybe she had an intense rivalry with Sallie May and that's largely where her aggression comes from, and Moxxie is the first person to love her how she is and not just for her achievements or use.

Maybe she uses violence as a crutch for her frustration at how she's not taken seriously as a short rural imp woman and needs to learn to accept herself and not constantly assert dominance over people around her.

Maybe she's used to people in Wrath just straight up dying and she feels like she needs to protect everyone so she doesn't lose them.

These are just some ideas I'm throwing at the wall! I get that it's an indie production which takes time but it'd be nice to see some Millie conflict to better build the group dynamic.

Every other main character has had more development than her, even when they have less screen time. She feels like such an afterthought sometimes.

((I feel like whenever I get into a piece of media, the character I like the concept of most ends up being the least interesting. Millie, Yor Briar (SXF), Anne (JJBA), Taryn Duarte (FOA), etc. So this may be a bit more aggressive than I actually feel about her but my frustration has just built up over time.))

[amr2002amr]

People who say it is stupid to cry while watching Helluva Boss or Hazbin Hotel because the writing, etc. is cringe clearly are missing the emotional point of the shows. It is okay to cry at them because damn the shows are about some pretty emotional stuff a lot of the time. Not everyone will cry at the shows but it is not okay to shame people for crying at it just cause you say "it is cringe." Smh

Ykkk

[twisting-echo]

Hi, @gothikaxenon it's me, Twisting-Echo from DA. I just thought I'd give you some more evidence and stories from other people about Nikki1975/Grayluftw.

The links below are what others have shared with me.

[gimme-a-thrust]

I seriously don't understand people.

People criticizing Adam's design, people already criticizing Mammon's design and all we have is his silhouette, people going and saying they hate the main characters, the entire cast of characters, the writing, the art style, etc.

It is so much easier to go find something you like and stop interacting with Vivzie's stuff. You are under no obligation to like it. If you hate everything about it, why are you even here?

[write-helluva-messy-boss]

been following basic tags like "helluva boss" and "helluva [character name]" and i just want to make something clear

these are general tags, and i don't know if this is universal for everyone, but generally i follow these tags for positive and neutral content about the show. i like hearing fan theories and seeing fanart.

what I'm not interested in is people complaining about the show. i happen to enjoy the show and disagree with a lot of the complaints and criticisms i see. plus, if i wanted to find that content, i would look for it, and not in these general tags. but the negative/critical content is literally the only recommended content i have been getting on Tumblr from these tags.

so, just putting it out there: if you're making critical posts, that's fine — but please don't use the general helluva boss tags. please instead use "helluva boss critical" or "helluva [character] critical" or "helluva [ship] critical."

for one, it's actually more organizational and correct in terms of how fandoms tend to tag things. secondly, it makes sure that your content reaches the right people. Tumblr algorithm isn't that smart and has not figured out, even with help, that i don't want to see this kind of post. so please, use the tag system in this way. we have been tagging things like this for years now. and, I'm frankly tired of seeing people endlessly complaining (not even being critical, just complaining with no factual/cited basis) about a show i happen to enjoy. if we use our tagging system to it's fullest, you all can find your community and i can find mine. keep expressing yourself, but please, tag things accordingly.

[hazbin-loony-bin]

the series makes frequent references to bdsm, idk why it’s in any way surprising or shocking this is a common visual theme.

It is a little strange that Blitzø would conceptualize his dynamic with Stolas this way, because Stolas seems more ‘tied down’ in the relationship than he does. Not to mention that they had more of a reversed Dom/sub thing going on in Season 2. But, they did have a switches vibe in the first season, so who knows.

And now typing all that, it occurs to me that maybe it’s a manifestation of fear of commitment. If you conceptualize becoming exclusive in a relationship as being chained, (esp since it’s such an otherwise loving one) that doesn’t bode well for your state of mind. Which we already know his isn’t good.

In any case, of all of these, Blitzø’s is the most unique and entirely unlike the others.

Fizzarolli hasn’t sold his soul to Mammon, but it’s the same sort of vibe as the other two- trading one’s own wellbeing for fame, fortune, (in Husk’s case, a missed-shot-at-but-desired fortune) power, or some other benefit to oneself.

I might also point out that of these, Angel Dust clearly has it the worst.

Lucifer may be a ‘fun’ character and all, but the fact that he’s essentially monarch and administrative power in Hell and he allows murderous turf wars and contracts such as signing away sexual consent entirely, bodily autonomy, on pain of (what? Dying? Torture? Angel already gets tortured, but maybe worse torture?) squarely puts him back into the position of being Oh Yeah He’s Satan …… Right. It’s easy to forget when he’s singing to his daughter.

do we…

maybe wanna

talk about this orrr…

[tomis-problem]

IF UR AN ANTI SHE IS NOT “LITERALLY YOU”

SHE LITERALLY HAS A HIT ON HER FOR BEING A PROSHIPPER. SHE HAS A HIT ON HER FOR SHIPPING INCEST. YALL ANTI MFS WOULD BE THE ONE PUTTING THE HIT ON HER ‼️‼️

[justarandomhelluvablog]

"Why do Asmodeus and Beelzebub get to be good people while Mammon is flat-out terrible?"

Because greed can't be good. Bottom line. You can make arguments for lust and gluttony not being inherently harmful, but not greed.

The very basis of greed is intense desire for something (not just money) with disregard for others. You can be lustful and still love (ex, feeling sexual desire for your partner). You can be gluttonous and still be responsible (ex, going out to a party on your weekend). But you cannot be greedy and care about others.

Being the embodiment of greed inherently means you cannot care about other people. That's why Ozzie and Bee get to be Ozzie and Bee. That's why Mammon will only ever be Mammon.

[carto0ncritter]

I'm sorry but I genuinely can't understand how people can look at Stolitz and Catradora and think these ships are healthy in any way, shape or form.

Stolas r*ped Blitzø. No, consent given in a life-or-death situation doesn't count

Stolas is racist towards imps, and this didn't change even when he "fell in love" with Blitzø

Stolas doesn't appreciate or respect Moxxie and Millie in the slightest (and was disappointed that his "Prince Charming" wasn't the one to rescue him)

He looks down on Blitzø and calls him things like "impish little plaything" and "his big dicked Blitzy" and doesn't stop treating him like shit even when Blitzø says loud and clear that he hates being talked down on like this (DUH)

The only thing Stolas knows about Blitzø is that he hates books and the only thing Blitzø knows about Stolas is that he's a boring bookworm. Keep in mind, the two figured this out about each other while they were kids, 25 YEARS AGO, after Blitzø was bought so that he could be Stolas' "friend" for ONE DAY

Stolas doesn't love Blitzø for Blitzø. Stolas loves the *idea* of Blitzø. The bird man wants to live a romance that is just like the romances in his cheesy novels. He wants to ride into the sunset with his one true love. He wants grand romantic gestures. He wants his "Prince Charming". Except, Blitzø isn't the type of guy for such sappy displays of affection, he never was. Especially combined with his trauma. And as soon as that other imp guy asked him to dance, Stolas not only accepted the offer, but Blitzø was no longer on his mind. And no, I don't think being drunk is proof that Stolas didn't mean what he had told Blitzø. Drunk people find it easier to say what's really on their mind after all

Blitzø fell in love with his abuser. This makes sense, actually. The guy always pushed everyone away and never got to experience true love, and now that he has the chance to be "wanted," even if the "relationship" is toxic, he finds it hard to let it go

As for Catradora, the things I wanna say about this ship have already been said throughout the years, but it all boils down to these things:

Catra mentally, emotionally and physically abused Adora

Catra had no problem ending the whole entire universe if it meant she'd finally be better than Adora

Catra was a war criminal and a fascist

Catra was responsible for what happened to Glimmer's mom and never apologized, let alone faced consequences

Their relationship was toxic even when they were kids

They were both raised by Shadow Weaver and were the only ones in the Horde who saw her as a mother figure, thus making the ship straight up incest, with even the official source material calling them sisters (adoptive siblings ARE REAL SIBLINGS!!!)

Catra got exactly what she wanted in the end (the girl she's always been obsessed with and dependent on) and, once again, faced 0 consequences for her actions

The show (and C//A stans) fetishizes abuse. As a SA survivor, I felt physically sick during the final episode, where the abuser ends up with her victim/sister and they kiss

In short, these ships are disgusting and the lgbt community deserves better representation

[wilted-astraea]

Ooh, this has a sting 😖 Expecting an abuse victim to apologize to their abuser is the mindset that keeps victims in their abusers grasp, or further shames them into submission or future victimization. Stolas could have theoretically "apologized" and still went through with the divorce.

But what is there to apologize for? Be realistic. We all know by now that Stella never cared about Stolas cheating. It was only the fact that it was with an imp that caused her anger. Stolas said himself: "Andrealphus, cheating implies there was a betrayal. This woman never gave two shits about me or our very much arranged "marriage". As far as I'm concerned, this divorce is far overdue."

So tell me again what does he need to apologize to his 15+ year-long abuser for? This was probably the only "injustice" committed on his end of the marriage, and Stella only cared that the lower class was involved. She even went as far as to hire a hitman to MURDER HIM. That's not a normal reaction to cheating. (in case you needed someone to tell you that........)

As someone with complex trauma, I wouldn't be caught dead apologizing to any of my abusers over the things they intentionally did to manipulate, degrade, exploit, neglect, and project their traumas onto me. Psychological abusers know what they're doing, and no victim is in a place to apologize, especially when they haven't even made it out of their situation yet. Stolas doesn't need to be sorry. He needs to escape.

I'm sorry, but if your arguments against Stolas come down to "he didn't apologize to Stella" I'm officially done arguing with you, because that says all I need to know about you.

Imagine an abuse victim not apologizing to their abuser is one of the main reasons you're hating on the character...

Though, I'd honestly argue Stolas DID apologize in the best way he could regarding his situation. He literally said "I'd feel bad if I hurt you, but we both know I didn't do that." Aka, Stolas WOULD feel bad (and apologize) if Stella wasn't an abusive bitch.

[baobhanlore-art]

After watching Unhappy Campers, I think I know what my biggest issue with Helluva Boss Season 2 is and that the jokes ruining tension and lowering the stakes.

In E2: Seeing Stars, the whole joke plotline of Blitz and Stolas in the sitcom made the search for Octavia feel insignificant and made Stolas look like a bad parent for fooling around there. If they'd just split up from Loona and had antics to do with their complicated relationships and their daughters, while Loona eventually found her, with the comedy largely coming from Moxxie and Millie, I feel like that would have been better. Maybe even if after the balcony scene, we extend it and have Blitz and Stolas meet them after Loona and Octavia's conversation. But we didn't.

In E3: Exes and Oohs, we see this happen twice. Once when Moxxie leaves the room and the dildos are all out, which cheapens the traumatic experience that was seeing his Dad, and then when we find out Chaz isn't rich. The last one cheapens the stakes by meaning the conflict now could mostly be resolved with Blitz yelling "Chaz isn't rich!" and then being granted the chance to explain himself. But the joke element ended up ruining the tension and we got a fight scene with Millie that looked phenomenal but would have been better if there were higher stakes.

In E4: Western Energy, Andrealphus's existence and his interactions with Stella that cause them to recall the assassination make the fight against Striker feel cheap and frustrating. They got to a point where they thought they were saving his life but we're actually saving him a few more days in the hospital. It lessened the stakes and tension unnecessarily.

And finally in E5: Unhappy Campers, Millie finds out who the killer is really fast making the whole ordeal unnecessary and annoying. It still would have been funny if we say how Moxxie was going overboard with the ruse without the mystery being solved, and the actions would have felt like they had more purpose, but it limited the stakes and tension.

It honestly feels like insecurity. Like the team are afraid to fully commit to the plotlines they write because instantaneous jokes and a focus on drama would cause people to click away. But we as fans want to see the stakes and drama! I just hate to see dumb jokes prioritised over the aspects of the show so many people loved.

Because regardless if you think the plot decisions are good or not, the interpersonal drama is probably the strongest aspect of the show's writing.

[yourfavouritemotherlyanti]

Nah doing your DeviantArt original character rp sesh in what is supposed to be a professional business email and telling your customer to "fuck off" whilst waiting for their playbill is crazy lmao/Neg.

[spopsalt]

What show's title is vs how it actually is

What the show's title is: She-Ra and The Princesses of Power

What the show actually is: Watch Adora get abused by Cata for 5 seasons straight then date her abuser, also FEEL BAD FOR CATRA

What the show's title is: Helluva Boss

What the show actually is: Watch a gay soap opera while the abuser gets victimized and while the victim gets demonized. Watch the victim form a trauma bond with his abuser. ALSO DON'T YOU FEEL SO BAD FOR STOLAS DONT YOU WANT HIM AND BLITZO TO DATE!?

What the show's title is: Hazbin Hotel

What the show actually is: Watch who is supposed to be the female main character get pushed to the side because men. Get introduced to a whole Lotta plotholes and rushed story telling as we stuff the plot into the last 2 episodes! Enjoy the boring/rushed/toxic romances as well!