#he’s a bit of a bitch sometimes
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main take aways from Halloween (1978) rewatch:
michael myers is canonically 21??? this bitch should be at the club
*sees tiddies* ***MURDEROUS RAMPAGE NOISES***
that's it that's the movie
outside of the fact that everyone who has sex is murdered by the narrative, this is a surprisingly chill portrayal of female sexuality? these teen girls are horny and actively enjoying Getting It On with their boytoys. no pushy boyfriends sneaking in through their bedroom windows--these ladies are taking the initiative to sneak out and GET SOME. one of them gets laid and then immediately orders her boyfriend to get her a beer. (yes she gets Slashered soon afterward, but so does the boyfriend so honestly, gender equality.) yes the Final Girl is the only one not having sex, but she's not bullied for that, nor are her friends slut shamed except possibly by being murdered by the narrative
actually the only character who is shown being morally condemned on-screen is michael myers. specifically FOR his violent overreaction to other people's sex lives. (people he is spying on). metaphorically, the villain is American Puritanism sticking its judgy nose into other people's business.
aka Michael Myers Is A Republican
but actually the real villain is the doctor. guy's a judgemental, shaming, pathologizing asshole. and he's been in charge of michael's care since he was SIX YEARS OLD? kid never had a chance. i'd go on a killing spree too
also the parents. where are the parents? it's halloween night and all the teenage girls are home babysitting their younger siblings? come to think of it, michael's first victim was his own older sister, whom he killed while she was babysitting him. teen girls are really shouldering a labour burden here. maybe parentification is the true villain
side note: mike commits his first murder wearing a clown costume...which is never referenced again? his 'iconic' costume is a generic mask and wig and jumpsuit, when we coulda had a Killer Clown Michael Myers??? travesty
i like how the Final Girl and her friend casually smoke weed in her car. yeah she's an honor student and her friend is the sheriff's daughter. yeah they smoke weed. so what it's 1978
(to reiterate, mike is 21 and should be at the club. im not saying he shouldn't be rampaging, im saying it's sad that he broke out, tasted freedom for the first time in his life, and immediately snuck back into his childhood home to go rampaging. let's have a remake where he goes to a nightclub and has a few beers. maybe some slutty dancing. then rampage)
oh no he's hot
#HALLOWEEN#halloween the movie#michael myers#do you think he's a mike? mikey? to his friends? if slashers had friends?#i'll be honest i was expecting this movie to be way more of a bitch to its female characters#i mean yeah they died but so did some dudes#there's just a lack of cattiness compared to the way most later movies portrayed teenage girls idk#yeah the Final Girl is a Virgin and a Bookworm. but there's no bullying or any strong sense that's she's morally superior to everyone else#mostly she AND the other girls feel a bit sorry for her lack of a social life. one even tries to set her up with a date to the school dance#solidarity! trying to get your nerd friend laid!#overall it's just teenagers being teenagers and then a slasher comes in and ruins everything with his Lack Of Chill#like yeah dude sometimes teenagers have sex. get over it#also something to be said about how while the girl who survives is the one who isn't sexually active and dresses conservatively...#ultimately those things aren't ENOUGH to prevent her from being targeted#you could say that the other girls 'provoked' the villain (the same way women irl are so often accused of provoking their attackers)#but ultimately that doesn't keep the Final Girl safe. it just delays the inevitable.#because violent men never need excuses. no matter how eager society is to provide them.#ultimately she is at the mercy of the same violent whims because it was never her behavior that invited the violence.#gendered violence doesn't need an invitation.#also she doesn't save herself the doctor saves her#it's not her actions or choices that put her in danger OR save her from it--once again it is the whim of a man#no this wasn't intended to be a feminist movie it's just fun how you could argue it that way
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my favorite susato and ryuu moments are the ones where theyre talking to someone normally trying to get clues and ryuunosuke mutters something obscenely rude under his breath thinking only he could hear it and susato looks at him like
#hes such a sweet polite young fellow but hes literally so sassy its comical#and i love that susato notices that#hes living in a tormentous nightmare he deserves to be a bit of a bitch#but sometimes he just breaks out some shit that is gloriously teetering the line#ryuunosuke naruhodo#susato mikotoba
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Odysseus was afraid the entire year on Aeaea in the Odyssey.
Content warnings: Rape, Sexual Coercion, Sexual assault, Sex Work, power dynamics, this will also be long as fuck as I talk too much. This is NOT a "Circe the Goddess Hate Post". I call her out but that's it. I tried to keep this neutral but still making a point (Let me know if I gotta put more)
Lots of lovely folks on here have written great essays on what Calypso did to Odysseus as it's soooo blatantly obvious there. It literally states how he cried every day and how he flinched from Calypso, very straightforward on how he was explicitly raped.
But I've noticed that a lot of people are always iffy about Circe's situation (understandably so, it's not so in your face.) She's usually always mentioned in the "Odysseus never cheated! He was raped!" posts but then the evidence is only ever given against Calypso, and then mentioning how you can't say no or disobey the orders of an immortal and how it was in exchange for freeing his men.
WHICH IS ALL CORRECT!!! But!!!
There ARE immortal/mortal couples who genuinely love each other. Dionysus and Ariadne, and Eros and Psyche are examples. Apollo and Hyacinthus. Psyche indeed becomes immortal eventually and in some versions, both Hyacinthus and Ariadne do too. But even while mortal themselves, their immortal lovers still remained respectful and loving towards them and definitely doted on them. There are definitely power dynamics at play here but there's some nuance.
Odysseus and Circe's relationship, however, is very different. We all know he slept with her at the very least once. And that was in exchange for his men being returned to humans. That was the only time it was explicitly stated. With Calypso, it tells you every night he was enchanted and slept beside her. It was the narrator speaking but Odysseus is the narrator now and it's his story. If you think he lied, this probably won't change your mind anyway.
But even if it was a one-time thing, (which isn't the only interpretation and I will have points that talk about others) then why did he stay a year? What was he doing?
I'm doing a deep dive into the year he spent on Aeaea based on evidence in Book 10 and then the beginning of Book 12. Step by step, and honestly I'm writing this for Tumblr, not as a thesis so I will be a bit more casual but still using sources. To me, it's very obvious that he was uncomfortable throughout the text simply based on the language that is used. But it's very subtle and not an outright statement of "He's been crying every day."
BTW, just so we're clear, this is not a "Circe is the root of all evil, etc." type of post.
This isn't meant to villainize her. She's an immortal being and in mythology that changes things. Everybody is morally gray. I genuinely think if we were to ask her feelings on it, she'd probably be like "Oh, yeah! Turned his men into pigs! Strange little man he was." I don't think she gave a flying fuck.
I just simply get pissed tf off when people think Odysseus was fine. It honestly disturbs me how often I'll go on other websites YouTube and see everyone call him a whore and a womanizer. It's sexism at its finest because 1.) "MaN AlwAyS wAnTs sEx" and 2.) women can't rape/coerce. THIS IS SIMPLY TO LOOK INTO HIS FEELINGS ABOUT IT.
This is also only for Homer's Odyssey, using different translations. If you want to discuss this, (I'd be happy to! Just be nice!) DON'T BRING UP ANY OTHER WORKS.
With all that out of the way, come yell with me 🤗
I've read multiple translations, as I know there's going to be bias depending on who's translating. And having done so, each one has basically the same situations described the same so that's nice for consistency. Also, there are some parts in the story that are vague and that we'll never have answers to.
Odysseus first simply sees the smoke from her chimney and then sends his men in, after drawing lots Eurylochus leads half of the men to check out the house. I mentioned here vaguely how the 2 immortals he sleeps with are both introduced while singing and weaving, which could be seen as an enchantment (which to me is most likely. They both possess magic and are goddesses). So I'm just gonna move past that. Just take a peek and come back or just know that enchantment was likely.
Next, I'll see people often joke on Tumblr about how
"Odysseus says that Polites is his best friend yet only mentions him once!"
I think Odysseus mentions his best friend, the one to jubilantly go in first, to show WHY he would go through with this. How much these comrades mean to him. That's his best friend, and there are approximately 20 others who are now pigs as well. Could you knowingly leave one of your best friends to live a life like that knowing you could've done something?
[...]Circe—and deep inside they heard her singing, lifting her spellbinding voice as she glided back and forth at her great immortal loom, her enchanting web a shimmering glory only goddesses can weave. Polites, captain of armies, took command, the closest, most devoted man I had: ‘Friends, there’s someone inside, plying a great loom, and how she sings—enthralling! The whole house is echoing to her song. Goddess or woman—let’s call out to her now!’ So he urged and the men called out and hailed her. She opened her gleaming doors at once and stepped forth, inviting them all in, and in they went, all innocence.
(Fagles, Book 10)
In the Odyssey, it's never mentioned why she turns people into animals. I think they were turned into pigs because, throughout the Iliad and Odyssey, Odysseus is often associated with boars. His men are associated with him, therefore: 🐖 Piggy. From what we know, the lads were just eating her food. With how much Xenia and hospitality are a large part of the story, they probably thought they were safe. They were GUESTS. This is especially welcome after the Cyclops and the Laestrygonians. And it literally says "All innocence". They were simply naive.
Then Eurylochus runs back, so terrified that he couldn't speak at first. He then begs Odysseus to just leave the men behind. Odysseus has shown that he does TRY to save his men when it is truly not reckless to do so.
But I shot back, ‘Eurylochus, stay right here, eating, drinking, safe by the black ship. I must be off. Necessity drives me on.’
(Fagles, Book 10)
Then the famous warning from Hermes. I've seen folks bring this up when talking about this. YES, he is literally commanded by Hermes to not refuse her if he wants his men back in basically every translation. It sounds like Circe was warned as well. When? We don't know, but it sounds like Hermes didn't pick "sides" here.
Strange that he was still like, "Sleep with each other" to both, because he could've been like, "Circe, there's this guy named Odysseus. When he comes to this island, change his men back." But who knows, maybe it was Circe's idea from the beginning and Hermes went along with it. Just food for thought.
Now here’s your plan of action, step by step. The moment Circe strikes with her long thin wand, you draw your sharp sword sheathed at your hip and rush her fast as if to run her through! She’ll cower in fear and coax you to her bed— but don’t refuse the goddess’ bed, not then, not if she’s to release your friends and treat you well yourself. But have her swear the binding oath of the blessed gods she’ll never plot some new intrigue to harm you, once you lie there naked— never unman you, strip away your courage!’
(Fagles, Book 10)
But that doesn't explain why he was there for a year afterward! Nor if he himself was okay with it, which is what I'm trying to delve into as he wasn't.
Also the knife thing? She's still immortal. It was meant to startle her. Her dad is Helios. Odysseus would've been toast, literally.
Also note this exchange wasn't a "Yippee! Hermes says I'm going to get laid!".
...just approaching the halls of Circe, my heart a heaving storm at every step, paused at her doors, the nymph with lovely braids— I stood and shouted to her there. She heard my voice, she opened the gleaming doors at once and stepped forth, inviting me in, and in I went, all anguish now …
(Fagles, Book 10)
Another translation by Ian Johnston, (they all say the same thing essentially but trying to make a point.)
I continued on to Circe’s home. As I moved on, my heart was turning over many gloomy thoughts. After I had walked up to the gateway of fair-haired Circe’s house, I just stood there and gave a shout. The goddess heard my voice. She came out at once, opened her bright doors, and invited me inside. I entered, heart full of misgivings.
HE👏WAS👏SCARED! The tone is solemn and suspenseful. He was just told that without Hermes' help with the root, he wouldn't be able to survive and bring back his men. Circe was dangerous.
He made her swear not to harm him.
Straightaway she began to swear the oath that I required—never, she’d never do me harm—and when she’d finished, then, at last, I mounted Circe’s gorgeous bed …
(Fagles, Book 10)
Please note that she NEVER promised that to his men. His comrades did NOT have moli in their systems. He had no way of truly ensuring their safety in any way from Circe.
He then refuses to eat or speak, literally "lost in grim forebodings". If he "just got laid", then why isn't he happy? Not many men can say that a goddess CHOSE to have sex with them. He did it to get his men turned back. It was an exchange. I don't think Circe is "Evil" so maybe it slipped her mind. Or yes, she could've thought, "Hey, I got what I wanted. He's handsome enough. Homer never shuts up about how hot this guy is He hasn't brought up the pigs yet. I'll just let this play out. Maybe HE forgot. I don't have to do anything." We don't know. But Odysseus probably felt like he got deceived.
"Hey, I did my part of the deal. I slept with you. Now do yours."
She pressed me to eat. I had no taste for food. I just sat there, mind wandering, far away … lost in grim forebodings. As soon as Circe saw me, huddled, not touching my food, immersed in sorrow, she sidled near with a coaxing, winged word: ‘Odysseus, why just sit there, struck dumb, eating your heart out, not touching food or drink? Suspect me of still more treachery? Nothing to fear. Haven’t I just sworn my solemn, binding oath?’
So she asked, but I protested, ‘Circe— how could any man in his right mind endure the taste of food and drink before he’d freed his comrades-in-arms and looked them in the eyes? If you, you really want me to eat and drink, set them free, all my beloved comrades— let me feast my eyes.’ So I demanded.
(Fagles, Book 10)
He doesn't trust her despite what she had told him that he should when they sleep together. He has figured out that while she will not hurt him, his men were not a part of that oath, the men he was trying to protect in the first place.
She is then moved by how they rejoice when they see one another again. While turning people into animals for funsies isn't cool and coercion is fucked up, I think she comes to see this group as not quite friends but I think she did find them entertaining in a way.
This is very strange but I've seen some folks say that since Odysseus was pissed at Eurylochus for still not believing him about Circe is proof that "Oh he was trying to defend her!". Which??? Uh, Eurylochus was literally questioning his leadership as a whole. Calling him reckless and shit. He is captain and he's the King, he can't let that shit slide. The text literally says "Mutinous". Also if I had to sleep with someone I did not want to especially if it was to save my friends and I got called names afterward I'd get fucking pissed too.
Only Eurylochus tried to hold my shipmates back, his mutinous outburst aimed at one and all: ‘Poor fools, where are we running now? Why are we tempting fate?— why stumble blindly down to Circe’s halls? She’ll turn us all into pigs or wolves or lions made to guard that palace of hers—by force, I tell you— just as the Cyclops trapped our comrades in his lair with hotheaded Odysseus right beside them all— thanks to this man’s rashness they died too!
They stay a year. Again it's never stated that Odysseus slept with her that whole time. You could interpret that. (Honestly, I feel Circe would get bored with him? She's a goddess, she's got more important matters than mortal men. And she definitely doesn't love him.)
His men DO have to bring it up that "Odysseus has forgotten his native land." Maybe they thought they could sneak out without her knowing??? I am fucking REACHING but hold on as Telemachus did because he knew Nestor would well, be Nestor and try to coax him with "Have a meal with us! Let me tell you about how badass I used to be in my youth." But to sneak away from a goddess? Without her permission? That won't end too well. Aeolus in the beginning kicked out Odysseus when he tried to ask for another bag of wind. If she didn't want him around, she could literally boot him out. While she didn't force him to stay like Calypso did, she didn't "release" him either.
We don't know if they've been asking for a long time. Odysseus does say to Circe that they have been begging him nonstop, but he could also be saying that to try and convince her. He's good at persuasion. I think while he knew he could rely on her for food, shelter, and good advice, he still didn't feel...SAFE with her. I think he was possibly avoiding her personally.
I think HOW he asks her to leave is important to know as well.
...but I went up to that luxurious bed of Circe’s, hugged her by the knees and the goddess heard my winging supplication: ‘Circe, now make good a promise you gave me once— it’s time to help me home. My heart longs to be home, my comrades’ hearts as well. They wear me down, pleading with me whenever you’re away.’
(Fagles, Book 10)
Throughout all of Homer's works, the characters grasp another's knees when they are desperate and are literally at the other person's mercy. Priam did when begging Achilles for Hector's body back. The man who literally killed his son and was defiling his body by dragging it around. Leodes grabs Odysseus' knees to beg for his life before Ody kills him. If he saw her as a friend, and not a captor, WHY DID HE FEEL THE NEED TO BEG IN ORDER TO LEAVE?! No one, who is in a healthy relationship, has to BEG for permission to leave. Or to "Break up", if you interpret them as still sleeping together.
And even Circe acknowledges that he is there against his will!
‘Royal son of Laertes, Odysseus, old campaigner, stay on no more in my house against your will.
(Fagles, Book 10)
[...]Odysseus, man of many resources, scion of Zeus, son of Laertes, don’t stay here a moment longer against your will
(A.S. Kline, Book 10)
This is probably another reach that you can ignore but the whole "they wear me down", could be trying to appease her. "Look, you're REALLY cool, it's actually my crew that wants to leave hahahah please don't kill them"
I mentioned before how Telemachus snuck away from Nestor but that was simply out of necessity because he needed to go home now. Not rest for the night. NOW. Nestor is just everyone's grandpa. Menelaus kind of talked more but Telemachus is very straight up in "Please I have to go now" and Menelaus immediately got things ready for him. He never has to beg and clasp his knees. Telemachus was never afraid. Menelaus is a fun uncle and Helen is your cool auntie.
Back to Circe! She tells him instructions for the underworld, they were in her bedroom. But that might've been the only way to speak with her. As even Penelope is usually away from the suitors when they are in her halls, Circe may have done the same. The text never states she played hostess physically. If she was hosting in the halls during the day, why did Odysseus wait until night to talk to her? He could've just asked her while she was on her throne in front of everyone. (He did so with the Phaeacians)
Or maybe he went alone because she only swore an oath to not harm him and so he didn't want his men near if she decided she didn't want to let them go. I could be missing something here so feel free to say something. Idk if this was a pride thing on how "I don't want others to see me beg".
She has info he needs in order to go home as well. She tells him to go to the Underworld.
She gave him new fine clothes and put on pretty clothes herself but that doesn't mean they had sex. Nausicaa gave him nice clothes as well but he never slept with her.
Then he leaves. Immediately. Not even doing a headcount as he didn't realize one of his men had died. (That was negligence on his part but he wanted out) He booked it, to the UNDERWORLD BY THE WAY. Circe even had to sneak the animals he needed for the sacrifice. Odysseus even basically said "She's a goddess. She can do things mortals can't" at the end of the book. And it almost feels...Numb? Solemn? Neutral? Gives a "It is what it is" vibe.
But Circe got to the dark hull before us, tethered a ram and black ewe close by— slipping past unseen. Who can glimpse a god who wants to be invisible gliding here and there?
(Fagles, Book 10)
She’d slipped past us with ease, for who can see a god move back and forth, if she has no desire to be observed?
(Johnston, Book 10)
She's a goddess. She has magic. She can do whatever the fuck she wants.
NOW ON TO BOOK 12!!! That was long! GET A SNACK AND WATER! LUCKILY THIS'LL BE SHORTER!
In Book 11, Odysseus swears, upon all his loved ones in Ithaca, to Elpenor that he'd give him a proper burial as he's been "unwept, unburied". So in Book 12, he sails back to Aeaea to fulfill his promise.
But you know what's funny to me?
He didn't tell Circe he was there.
He didn't even go to greet Circe himself. He sent his men to go get Elpenor's body.
The biggest clue that he didn't love/trust her is that if she was his "Affair partner" then why not go see her for "one last night together"?
SHE came out herself and pulled him aside to know what happened and then gave more advice.
I dispatched some men to Circe’s halls to bring the dead Elpenor’s body. [...]
Nor did our coming back from Death escape Circe— she hurried toward us, decked in rich regalia, handmaids following close with trays of bread and meats galore and glinting ruddy wine. [...]
But Circe, taking me by the hand, drew me away from all my shipmates there and sat me down and lying beside me probed me for details
(Fagles, Book 12)
In every translation, it talks about how he sits, and she lounges/lies down. That's not sex 🙃 In some translations, it even says he tried to be with his shipmates but she pulled him away!
So we lay down and slept beside our ship’s stern cables. But Circe took me by the hand and led me away, some distance from the crew. She made me sit, while she stretched out beside me on the ground.
(Johnston, Book 12)
Then, she gives advice about the sirens, Charybdis, Scylla, and her father's Cattle. He tries to ask if he could save all his men. She scolds him for even thinking he could try. He again books it out of there.
I think we all know it wasn't "love". But I think a lot of people think Odysseus was willing and happy with whatever this was. "Friends with Benefits", if you will. I guess you could see it that way but I will say that makes me feel itchy with the whole power dynamic and fear. I don't think folks who have that arrangement have to beg on their knees to ask if they can leave though.
I mean the entirety of Book 10 gives me the vibes of "Laughing uncomfortably because you don't want to upset the other person". To just grin and bear it.
A lot of this was just putting the text here and picking it apart step by step. What you do with this is up to you. It's rambling while banging pots and pans together.
Maybe you see him as drugged the entire year and still sleeping together, as the moli "wore off". Even then, just because her magic can't affect him, there are plenty of natural concoctions that can be created that can affect mortals.
Maybe you see the entire year as sex work in exchange for shelter and food.
Maybe he was just alongside his men the whole time under her roof and was avoiding her after the exchange. After he got asked by his men to finally leave, he would start to walk up to that room only to freeze and turn around, thinking "One more day won't hurt. Should wait until I know she's in a sympathetic mood".
I beg of you, however, PLEASE understand that there was fear and coercion throughout his entirety on Aeaea. He wasn't staying to get laid. While there is so much going on and too many things that are left vague to really know exactly what happened, it is consistent that he was scared/numb. Lots of people go through with things they don't really want to do just to appease others. There are plenty of situations of sexual trauma where one person goes through something and the other has no idea the other person isn't okay. ESPECIALLY WHEN SOMEONE CAN HARM THE PEOPLE YOU CARE ABOUT AT ANY MOMENT!
Sexual trauma is a very complicated thing and while he was scared, he definitely wasn't as traumatized by her as he was by Calypso. Calypso was a torturous hell while Circe was a year of walking on eggshells, as he did still receive help from her and she even apparently taught him a special knot. Not comparable but I still think Circe should be acknowledged. As even Odysseus acknowledges Circe when talking about how Calypso held him captive, as @leynaeithnea and @akaittou have reminded me. Leynaeithnea's addition:
A. S Kline translation of the Odyssey, book 9 Calypso, the lovely goddess, kept me there in her echoing caves, because she wished me for her husband, and in the same way Circe, the Aeaean witch, detained me in her palace, longing to make me hers: but they failed to move my heart. she held him back from leaving - one way or another - he did not want to, she LITERALLY compares Circe with Calypso, - yes he uses a stronger word for Calypso (here "kept" vs "detained") than for Circe, but it is still not willingly that he stayed.
He would not have brought up Circe alongside Calypso if her affections had "wanted". It's wild because I read the Odyssey and kept thinking "Y'all are calling the sex slave a cheater? The guy who slept with a goddess to get his men back? The ultimate simp apparently doesn't love his wife??"
Things I'm adding that shouldn't affect the argument as it is not in the Odyssey but I want to mention as it's a "fun fact": Odysseus' dad was an Argonaut. Laertes probably met Circe as well, (or knew of her) with the whole purifying thing and maybe Odysseus heard his dad tell stories of her. Later myths also have Circe with the habit of turning her crushes (or their lovers) into something with Scylla and Picus.
In conclusion, Yeah, he was afraid of her. At least to an extent. And don't pull the whole "Ancient men didn't get raped". Male victims exist and deserve compassion for what was done to them and women are capable of sexual abuse. If you think otherwise, you are not a true feminist and Fuck you. I said in the beginning this'll be casual and I don't wanna write a fancy ending. You can still think Circe is neat but you have to know that this was fucked up.
If you think a lot of this is bullshit or wanna give more context or wish to yell with me but still know he wasn't alright on Aeaea, cool. If you want to point out mistakes or something I should keep in mind with interpretations then feel free to say so but give text evidence. If you try and bring up the Telegony and/or Madeline Miller's Circe, fuck clean off. This is Homer. If you call Odysseus a whore and not the malewife he canonically is I'll start biting. 😤
#feel free to add thoughts! just be nice#Was a bit afraid to post this but now I don't care lol#I'm a tired bitch#Youtube and idiots on tumblr got me acting up.#This may be too thorough but idc.#idk why the colors get weird#I don't know how other people can see all these things lined up together and not see how he was not okay.#like I said you can still like circe the goddess but know this was wrong!#might make private sometime but fuck it#Circe the goddess is “fine”. Circe the book is not#It sounds like it does her dirty anyways. Odyssey Circe would take book Circe out back and beat the absolute shit outta her.#if you bring up the tele-GONE-y then BEGONE yourself#odysseus#the odyssey#odyssey#circe#tagamemnon#tw rape#tw sa#tw sex assault#crying shaking throwing up#greek mythology#circe rant#odyssey rant#anti madeline miller#anti circe#the BOOK#Mad rambles#anti-madeline miller#essay
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hello i saw in your tags that you don't think people on here get casey stoner and as someone relatively new into the sport i would love to hear your thoughts <3
(context here) okay first of all, this post will be framed as ‘things I wish people talked about more with regards to casey stoner’, rather than arguing against what I think people think
I've tried to come up with a concise response to this ask but kept heading into thesis-length territory. so I decided to write a bullet point list and it’s still… yeah… but well it could be worse. if you, dear anon, wish to read thousands of words of casey stoner lore then please let me know. otherwise, here are just a few things I find interesting about this bloke:
casey has a very complex relationship with the concept of confidence, both in other riders and himself, in the sense that he KNOWS how important it is but also believes/wishes that he specifically is kinda above all that
this feeds into how he wishes that racing were Just Racing and not all this other stuff… not his brain not his body not other racers being assholes on/off track not talking to journalists or doing photoshoots not having to deal with politics etc etc - central underlying tension of his career
he has openly spoken about not ever really enjoying race day, saying the only thing he's missed after retiring is qualifying. very perfectionist, the anxiety, the over-thinking, craving control… all key casey traits
(which also ties in with the valentino rivalry, because valentino obviously adores racing (in particular wheel-to-wheel battle) but he’s also great at all that other off-track stuff)
some very rigid ideas of How The Sport Should Look, which you can see in everything from how he talks about racing standards to the introduction of CRT riders (he had it OUT for them, head hot every time aleix espargaro shows up in parc fermé) to valentino’s influence on ducati and the importance of the colour red
let him have his mean streak! the grim satisfaction in discussing jorge’s 2008 injuries after his early-season arrogance towards casey, the dismissiveness towards dani, some of the wilder valentino remarks (this isn’t a criticism to be clear, alien-on-alien violence is part of the natural order of things)
casey is a classic case of ‘just because you’re paranoid, doesn’t mean they aren’t after you’. definitely a suspicious guy and perpetual underdog 'me against the world' mindset. not to get too psychoanalytic-y, but I reckon this was partly born out of how he had to leave australia as a teenager (with his family completely dependent on him succeeding) because of how the racing establishment down under fucked him over
they definitely were out to get him a lot of the time, cf yamaha and then ducati drama plus the slander from some of the greats of the sport, fellow riders, the media etc etc (particularly egregious in 2009 when he was dealing with his mystery illness and a lot of people said some pretty unpleasant stuff in his absence - here is just one example)
his struggles were constantly downplayed. the chronic fatigue misdiagnosed as lactose intolerance led to people calling him weak-minded, broken, running away from the sport (part of why he was so allergic to the idea his results might in any way be connected to what was going on in his head). add in the undiagnosed anxiety and you have all this invisible strife people wouldn't even take seriously
that being said, he definitely did have a propensity for jumping to the worst possible conclusions
two specific examples: firstly from his autobiography, where he makes the claim that valentino may have been sabotaged in the 2006 title decider and was deliberately given a rubbish tyre to make him lose the championship - to which casey’s response was: “welcome to my world, mate”. he does have a tendency to believe he’s being sabotaged, and is constantly on the look out for conspiracies even when they are… unlikely
the other example is mat oxley talking about his issues with casey in his stint working for ducati, partly based on a misunderstanding:
something allegedly written about him in 2001!
let’s just say he can definitely hold a grudge
the moaner stoner stuff was definitely nasty, calling him mopey and whiny and all of that, but he also has never shied away from some good old-fashioned complaining (some of this was a bit of a spiral - complaining for good reason worsening public perception of him leading to more reasons to complain)
see also the lingering marc grudge, who probably did play a significant part in getting casey kicked out of honda (as casey has accused him of). whether marquez prevented stoner from racing in 2015 is more of an open question. casey still speaks about how honda made a mistake by only listening to marc (which, again, does have some truth to it)
casey was always very quick to shut down the idea that momentum, motivation, confidence etc could affect his results (unlike that of his competitors) because he argues he was always very rational & clear-sighted about when things were his fault & when things could be blamed on the bike + extraneous factors. he really goes into detail about this when discussing 2008 laguna seca in his autobiography, which he argues had no effect on him psychologically (but was followed by him crashing out of the lead of the next two races)
has definitely spoken more about his rivalry with valentino than valentino has, which probably has also helped shape perception of it over time
on ‘ambition outweighed talent’ - I feel like people almost understate just what a (hilariously) out of pocket remark it was in context. it was rossi’s second ever race at ducati (and the start of his season was impacted by his shoulder issues) - and the rain meant he had a ~win it or bin it~ approach because he knew it was as good a chance as he might get for some time (despite starting from 12th). the move on stoner for second place was at best optimistic, most definitely impatient and at worst foolish - but sort of understandable in that situation, rossi was definitely rapid, and this stuff can happen in the wet. in that sense, it was obviously more a reaction to the manner of the apology (and his frustration with the stewards) than to what casey himself described as a racing incident
stoner made a remark in his autobiography about how rossi had stolen 25 points in a title battle he was never going to be a part of (oof). whether you're obligated to race title contenders differently is already a bit sketch but certainly should not be a consideration for anybody in round TWO
he was forced to publicly retract the remarks, though he doubled down on them to a deeply funny extent in his autobiography by suggesting they were true of valentino’s entire career and that he’d just benefited from a weak era. rossi mostly took it on the chin especially when interviewed about it for documentaries, probably because with something like that you do just need to take the L
it's understandable how it’s become such a defining image of their rivalry (along with laguna seca), not least because of how evocative the whole thing is - rossi showing up still wearing his helmet, trying to make a PR apology stick while he’s been eating nauseating amounts of humble pie at ducati; stoner casual as you like, pissed off about the points loss while still indulging in schadenfreude about how the Great Big Ducati Adventure is working out for rossi
but again, I think it’s funnier because of just HOW over the top an insult it was in that situation (and more broadly how it does have a different vibe to their interactions when they were meaningfully competing, aka 2007-2008)
in conclusion: casey has his doubts and his insecurities and his obsessions and his foibles… a complicated guy in his own right
and a big thing I’d like to stress here is that the rivalry with valentino does benefit from treating them both as somewhat unreliable narrators
I just think he's neat
#ty for giving me an excuse to be annoying at length about one of my number one guys!!#casey stoner#brr brr#motogp#//#lotsss of other stuff you can go into here. he gets a bit sanitised sometimes I feel which is kinda a shame#u can be justifiably resentful and still be very resentful. spite is still spiteful when it's deserved. same with the misanthropic streak#being called weak-minded really got to him imo - and the thing is he's clearly not (& good lord did some big names say some nasty things)#the autobiography feels almost an overcorrection and then you've got him recently talking more openly about his mental health#(even if not specifically about how it affected him competitively - which is obviously a related but not identical conversation)#it's an uplifting development in a way and it's nice seeing how much more comfortable in his skin he seems these days#but he is also a little bitch :)#batsplat responds#heretic tag
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I have not stopped talking about the way you draw Impulse since you posted that art, he's such a silly guy and I love him
hello again zera hopepetal!! I'm glad you like him he's fun to draw even tho i keep getting his hair the wrong way around but shh. the fandom at large is so so right abt him being big and strong. vibes are immaculate.
he somehow manages to be both the relatively reasonable mum friend and the one who causes problems on purpose in my head 👍very silly very good
^ both are canon to me
#my art#hermitblr#trafficblr#impulsesv#grian#asks#he has like.. this subtly smug energy that i can't quite place#i rmmber seeing a post that's like 'watching impulse is just slowly discovering that he's a lil bit of a bitch and loving him for it'#and yeah#my headcanon has always been that he used to be A Way and has calmed down now but sometimes old habits die hard#and he just wants to cause some chaos and set smth on fire#SOZ FOR RAMBLING.. i like impulse...
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at the end of the day i am so very picky about the satoru content i choose to consume :,)
#— ai rambles#we are all free to do whatever we want here and write characters as we please#but man. the things i’ve seen and how that’s not him AT ALL#like when we write fanfic we more or so make the said character a bit ooc one way or another#like that’s inevitable#but i’ve seen things#where he’s got 0 of the basic traits at least that makes him gojo satoru#like it’s just the name that’s gojo satoru the rest is more like kenjaku ngl#are we on the same page with character analysis sometimes i wonder#once again i am not judging anyone here okay pls nobody take this personally#i am simply super picky about what i read and like when it comes to him#ur all doing wonderful for creating art i am just a huge bitch when its about him that’s all
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Saw these screenshots side by side in my gallery and . sure.
#mirror yakumo: hey bitch u gonna destroy everything u love#wait. actually. no. you're not even capable of love. you're too messed up.#all u can do is wreck and consume like a savage little beastie. go writhe on the wet floor u worm#IRL yakumo: n_n✿ little treats for you!!!#yakumo dissonance...#i want present yakumo to be able to travel in time and look at screenshots of his old dialogue LOL#yakumo two years ago: oh i'm hopeless and doomed and only capable of evil who could ever love a monster like me#yakumo now: i'm . i'm a bit monstrous... only sometimes? *glances at eiden in the corner for assurance*#eiden: *gesturing with his hands like he's saying [AND..?]*#yakumo: i am. a.....regular.... snake...yokai? containing... multitudes?#eiden: *nodding confidently*#eerie escapade#nu carnival yakumo
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today's ep is fun ([Fondly] "Yes, Martin, you are my reason,") but im gonna take the time to complain about something minor from years ago, because when else will I get the opportunity?
occasionally people made (make? ive blocked most people who were hardcore about it so idk if they're still on it) posts arguing that Martin is a terrible boyfriend and person and Jon deserves better, and they always cite this part:
to say 'wow, how can Martin say that when he himself isn't very open either, the hypocrite!'
but if we remove the poorly edited out text, and look at the quote in its actual context...
Martin didn't just decide, 'hey, lets chide Jon on his emotional openness today'. Jon literally just read Martin's mind to know what he was thinking about - it's not dwelled on for too long, but imagine for a moment how fucking invasive that really is. compared to that, yeah, Jon doesn't share as much!
which isn't to say that he always should share everything and it's Jon's ''fault'' if he doesn't immediately tell Martin how he's feeling at every moment. just that, you know, communication has to come from both sides. so i think it was more than fair for Martin to express his concern about the imbalance, if Jon would have continued to just know what was in Martin's thoughts and feelings
#but he stopped! because they're actually doing quite well for the beginnings of a relationship during the apocalypse#Martin isn't perfect. not by a looong shot#mostly: being a bit insensitive to other people's feelings#i guess it's cause they're bfs now? and martin put up a good front about being a nice and caring guy#but actually.... he tries rlly hard but he iiisn't actually that good at the emotional stuff?#which is why he just hands out tea when something bad happened. maybe a little white lie#and sometimes that helps#but sometimes it doesn't#anyways.#tma#a mag a day#martin#beloved 💜💜💜#people were so psyched when he's a bit of a bitch until those traits don't immediately melt away in the light of Jon's Jon-ness#ANYWAYS. i should shut up. before i restart this damned discourse#tma s5#mag167
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squad. and some gully expressions
#under the eyes#taz moment#cleary ute#gully ute#sketch#silly gaggle of gay invertebrate teenagers#copypaste from twitter where i was talking gully expressions:#shes got a touch of resting bitch face#but her relaxed neutral look has a more loose hold to the trunk. sad has her trunk curling in on itself w her eye stalks held more loosely#and happy has a raised trunk that brings her mouth more in line w her head#also trying to have the curve of her “chin” replicate her actual mouth a bit#as it is where the mouth would be if there was no trunk and i think it helps convey the mood#also she doesnt talk from the trunk mouth and he voice just kinda. emanates from her gill slits?#dont question it. but she does do open mouth emoting sometimes (and she eats w it lol)
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originally fell in love with sunday because he was so much like me,,,,,, starting to hate sunday because he is too much like me,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
#when robin calls him out so blatantly with her ‘yeah but before he gets up he hesitates and agonizes over if it’s the right decision’#like okay thanks bitch just say my name next time LMAO#it was Too Much#sunday really does have ocpd#it’s a bit too real sometimes#idk#also i dont hate him obviously; that is a joke LMAO#i’m just almost uncomfortable by how well they’re portraying ocpd#irregardless of whether or not that was this INTENTION#clari chatters
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For normal Klavier: What do you do when you are sick? Who do you allow to take care of you? Do you take breaks from rock and cases when sick?~ Guardian anon
"Nowadays, I.. usually, I, ah, take care of myself, ja. I want to be better as soon as possible, so, when I'm sick, I try to rest, ja."
#klavier answers#klavier gavin#ask blog#rp blog#asks open#roleplay blog#aj:aa#aa4#roleplay requests open#ace attorney#aa klavier gavin#post turnabout corner#:(#hes sad guys#no brother to help him out#and daryan is a bit of a bitch sometimes so klavier usually wouldn't ask him tbh#its the first time in his life klavier gavin hasn't been babied and holy *shit* is he struggling#his brother raised him to be a child no?#based on how he shrinks back/regresses when bad things happen (bad things including turnabout succession)#esp when his brother is present#:( he also misses kristoph. btw.
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people who use she/her and he/him for me in the same sentence: i love you
#the moon speaks#fuck yeah mix it up bitch!! let's see how creative you get with ''any pronouns''#like they/them? my default. perfectly good for any situation. a good robust set of pronouns#she/her? a bit basic but i can work with it. totally fine. sometimes i deserve to be a pretty girl#he/him? definitely more spicy! bonus points if i look femme that day because it's funnier. very gender euphoric.#but they/she/him in the same sentence? throwing in NEOPRONOUNS?? im batting my eyelashes at you and giggling
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IT IS SO IMPORTANT. To Always Remember that Alfonse IS also Líf. That they exist on a continuum. That Líf HAD to come from Somewhere. That Alfonse is Just As Capable of being a moody broody over-dramatic self-righteous cunt AND jackass. It is SO IMPORTANT to remember this
#fire emblem#feh#litany against woobifying him.#and obvs there are The Circumstances. but i'm talking EXCLUSIVELY about characterization#alfonse is soft! he is kind! he wants the best for everyone! he adores his loved ones! ect!!!!#BUT REMEMBER. REMEMBER THE FACETS. THE GLITTERING FACETS#it is really cool to try and find the line where one becomes the other and where they blend together#and i just. i hold jackass alfonse so fucking dear.#not in a 'he can be mean but he's nice to me' way but in a 'man sometimes i'm a huge high strung bitch too' way#alfonse 🤝 moe you are NOT immune to melancholy and coming off a bit like an asshole.#AND. THE SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS. THE KILLER#i HAVE to KILL HIM ‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️#fe alfonse#fe lif
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please never stop making your long ass analysis posts you're THE motogp scholar and i'm learning so much from you as i'm sure others are too
besides deeper analysis on the guys everyone talks about it's also so fun to see nicher races and rivalries discussed that don't get as much spotlight in the general fandom
i appreciate you soo much especially as a newer fan still looking for races to watch and sources to read, thank you for sharing your thoughts like this, seriously!!
thank youuuuuuuuuuu such a nice ask :(( glad the long ass analysis posts are being appreciated. especially the niche stuff generously about five other people care about
here, have a casey/jorge/vale photo I only recently unearthed as thanks:
the context for the photo is this clip from laguna 2010, where they accidentally played the italian rather than the spanish national anthem. which, y'know. would be a funny moment anyway, but it's just a very valentino thing to happen and a very jorge thing to happen. couldn't have chosen a funnier combination of guys for this particular mix up I reckon. like the commentators say, "poor jorge lorenzo"... it's so symbolically perfect in the context of that whole season and rivalry, so good it feels scripted. anyway, I'd already seen from a distant video taken from the crowd (unfortunately with inconvenient railings in the way) and a very poor quality photo included in this post that casey was also laughing... but I am thrilled to have an ever-so-slightly higher quality photo to confirm this - think it's from around 0:26 in the clip so right when the spanish national anthem kicks in, and casey is still grinning widely. idk it's cute... this is valentino's second race and first podium back from injury and it's also casey's best result of the year thus far (yikes) and jorge's racked up another win - so it's one of those podiums where everyone has genuine reason to be happy to be there. BUT the vibes between valentino and the other two had also taken a turn for the rancid when valentino broke his leg and returned... which showed in that sachsenring to laguna stretch lol. so it's just kinda fun to see them sharing a nice little moment together :) love and friendship wins yay
#i love when casey just has a bit of fun... especially when it's about something that's a little mean#it's like when he said jorge + marc together in the same team in 2019 would be popcorn-worthy...#or all his valentino-directed schadenfreude in 2011-12...#or when he was grinning in the sepang 2010 presser about jorge's response to the motegi valentino drama question...#like just let yourself be a bit of a bitch sometimes casey... it's good and healthy and clearly suits you#//#brr brr#batsplat responds#heretic tag#wall tag#also you actually get a better shot of jorge's immediate reaction in the video from the crowd#and his disgruntled trying-to-look-amused pout is SO endearing#the way he also immediately looks at valentino and valentino just laughs... he didn't do it sorry jorge
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can i say it now?
sage of time/time powers didn't make sense for totk zelda. at ALL.
when in botw, before the calamity, in aoc, did she EVER show an affinity for time powers? i get that it was like this sort of. hidden power kind of thing, but it still doesn't make much sense. not for zelda.
#not to mention. light dragon still.#like..... it doesn't make sense in my head.#i would have understood it if it were link who was sage of time. because he canonically has magic related to time#(e.g. flurry rush. bullet time. plus connections to the hero of time)#they could have made a banger design with time themes for dragon zelda. im just saying#and i get kind of trying to connect her with sonia a bit but idk.#i TRIED to bring this up back when totk first released but people didnt like that very much#i think both zelda and link are connected to time and light but they each have more of a connection to one over the other#like. okay. dragon of time zelda. yes?#phases in and out of existance at will. sometimes she's seen at the two different places at the same time. maybe more.#her appearance is pretty unpredictable. the average hylian who has no clue what the dragon spirits are talk about things going missing#weird things happening whenever the dragon of time flies overhead#legend of zelda#tears of the kingdom#totk spoilers#idk if people still care but it was more expensive than usual so#negativity#i feel bad for making this post after bitching about people being too harsh about totk#and people were. i was hyperfixating and legit could not talk about it because people were horrible about it to me#which genuinely ruined a lot of my experiences online last year#its really hard to try and reframe it as “all that matters is that you enjoy it and what other people think shouldn't affect that”
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thoughts many thoughts
#about...... the mikeification of fanon will#& the willification of fanon mike..#i just think that will should be a little bit of a bitch sometimes [i mean im definitely pro] but he is also a sad quiet little guy#idk#important characteristics to me.#and mike is a sweetheart but he also cussed out his teachers age 12 you know#“he's sweet around will though” he is still a human person!!#and they treat each ohter like real people that's why the dynamic works. that was like their whole thing in s2#anyway#the point im trying to get at is that one of will's defining traits IS his feelings and how sensitive he is#btw sensitive is not used in a bad way here!! just saying#damn i had way more thoughts on this than i thought.#anyway im gonna change my title back to dying on my little hills again. as a treat. because its true#lizaflopposting#will byers#mike wheeler#byler
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