#he said i could do my own research so it wouldn't be biased | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

vintageseawitch · 2 years ago

Text

if there are any twilight book sequels written then published, i promise to look up spoilers because if i find out the Volturi decide to create hybrids of their own (🤢🤮) then i will refuse to read let alone own them. as curious as Aro may be about it, it's horrendous that he would try it out himself. the creation of hybrids is legitimately terrifying body horror to me & even Aro's "indifference" towards humans doesn't automatically make him a psychopath about this sort of thing.

Aro, despite his penchant for ruthlessness, is a softie, too. i like to imagine the thought of putting a uterus-owner through such a specific & horrific form of torture fills him with revulsion & guilt. yes, humans are red-eyed vampires' food, but even humans get disturbed at the thought of animals they consume going through needless pain especially for selfish reasons.

at this point the canon of this silly franchise means approximately shit to me so if smeyers decides to make her refined, considerably more interesting clan of vampires into true monsters, she can fuck right off because they deserve better than that. they're not villains simply because they're doing what is natural to them & the Cullens are a creepier cult than the Volturi will ever be. at least everyone knows that the three kings are dangerous. the Cullens are too busy being gentrified hypocrites (completely beige & lacking a good, old-fashioned dungeon & set of coffins... the dark drama is what draws us to vampires in the first place & someone like Forever Emo Teenager McWalking Red Flag scoffs at such things like a good little boring creeper on top of them actually not giving a damn about humans considering how in midnight sun it's clear they wouldn't have batted an eye at killing bella because said little boring creeper - or the prodigal son 🙄 - can barely control himself around her like it's her problem to deal with. glob i hate that & his losing control around her would make their "lives" a Little Bit Uncomfortable lmao) with Whatever The Fuck Weird Dynamic they have going on.

if anyone would be cruel anyways, it would be Caius out of the three kings, but i refuse to believe even he would go that far. a part of it is the thought of needing to be close to a human like that would disgust him but another is at least when they feed it's quick. if anyone is to endure a terribly long torture it would be Nahuel's biological father because he's a real monster. like, yes, somehow the Volturi never found out about hybrids, but they never went & tried to find out what would happen themselves.

i like to think the more the three kings researched it the more horrified they would be, but that could just be my biases & preferences showing. bella & edward's daughter displays disturbingly similar compulsory "abilities" or however one would describe them like Immortal Children because everyone's sudden pull to her after she touched them is WAY too similar to the enchantment vampires experience around the latter type of child so i think the Volturi (especially Jane) would be weirded out by that connection considering how long they've studied them.

i'm not saying every hybrid is like bella & edward's kid, but i'm pretty sure Aro noticed that neither she nor the rest of the family really like or trust the Volturi that much PLUS the Romanians are some of her favorite vamps. pretty sure that has put the Volturi on their guard (so to speak) (also Carlisle what the FUCK why are you being so weird about the Volturi. why tf does edward have his stupid attitude about them whyyyy make them your enemy especially considering the drama in new moon & eddie blatantly disrespecting the ancient group by expecting them to be Suicide Assistance as though that's what they're there for & have nothing better to do & Aro doing you a MASSIVE favor). ya know, as pretty as he's portrayed in the movies, i'm liking him as a character less & less (he's the biggest hypocrite of them all & playing a dangerous game of delusions - like hun, sorry, but no matter how much you pretend, you are not a human any longer & maybe you don't realize it (or WANT to) but you totally think you're better than humans seeing as you bend their rules especially if it's for your extremely problematic red-headed "son" - but THEN AGAIN you're certainly good at wiping out local wildlife like big predators so maybe you're more like humans than you think & i mean that as a slur).

i totally get derailed in my little rants on here & i'm only a little bit embarrased since this is pretty much how my brain works & how i talk lmao so tl;dr if the Volturi become the worst kind of monsters in future books when it comes to hybrids (aka "making their own" 🤢🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮), smeyers can fuck right off some more & the Cullens & their creepy cult & creepier hybrid kid are the worst. i still like Emmett though even if he chooses to stick around the problematic bunch (pretty sure Carlisle has a gift as well; it's amazing that so many vampires are not only able to live with each other peacefully but rigidly stick to a diet that is unnatural to their kind - a kind of creature that follows their instincts above almost most things. oh Carlisle, you certainly transferred your wild need to repress almost too exceedingly well).

49 notes · View notes

ladyhindsight · 2 years ago

Note

I decided to speak separately on the matter of racism in TLH. I'll give my honest opinion that I'm sure many people disagree (I don't care)

I suppose it's easy to just try to paint CC as someone who hates people of color even though we do not have factual evidence of that. I don't see a white person obsessing over their white characters and their features as a personal offense to me, I see it as something an author should work on so it doesn't get so atrociously obvious in their writing. The writing is problematic? VERY, but I'm not so simplistic as to believe this must mean the author is an horrible person who believes white features are objectively superior. The more I research about CC, the more I have reasons to side-eye her author persona, but I refuse to make this personal anymore.

The matter of race regarding Alastair is something I have felt deeply hurt and argued passionately about in the past, but once I realized how unserious CC's writing is, it stopped hurting me on a personal level and I went through a time of deep frustration while I saw fully how the world of TSC was so unplanned since the start and doesn't try to have any coherence. It helps that I have reads books so much more racist than any of TSC could ever be, that affects my view of it all, of course.

Part of the unseriousness is how in love the writing is with the characters. It's not one character in love with another, it's like the whole book is in love with the main characters. I'm sure I've read you saying: this before, the author's fascination with her own characters make the writing absurdly biased.

That takes to the treatment of Alastair's character: he is one of the characters of color I have related the most ever, I truly love him as a character. But the story is so in love with the main white characters that it gets fucked up how it can't not be forgotten how Alastair has committed the biggest of sins known to man: raise his voice to hurt the golden protagonists James and Matthew, not because bullying is bad, but because James and Matthew are so much better than him regardless of what they do, and regardless of what Matthew does or says against him, so hurting them is very, very bad. Bad Alastair!

In Chain of Iron, James seems perfectly ready to move on and be friendly to Alastair, and that's written as in to show how of a benevolent gracious kind understanding forgiving humble person he is, specifically how much of a perfect husband he is to Cordelia, being polite to her brother, it's not about actually showing understanding to Alastair - Matthew doing the complete opposite of James is not shown as flawed either. They are just perfecly right in whatever they decide to do, James being the perfectest and Matthew being just a little silly angsty guy.

The flaw is more actually in the writing of the MAIN white characters, and that has been the case since ever. As if Jace was split in two different parts, James and Matthew, and TLH just goes from there.

I should note, CC already mentioned Cordelia being half-Persian in early 2014, which can still be said to be early on the planning of TLH, so I don't think it's fair or accurate at all if someone talks as if Cordelia and Alastair's ethnicity was changed "last minute," that's definitely not the case

- R

I’ll add your other message here too since a lot of the subject matter overlaps.

I've been reading your posts that I had missed and this one is a contenter for my favorite post of yours.

The description of physical traits done by CC is something I've been observing for a while and I did my own research through the books.

I have reasons to be fond of CJ - she was the one who made up Robert/Michael and I'm inclined to believe CC may not have thought of it/included it in the books if not for CJ, and I wouldn't have Robert as he is in The Evil We Love. What a terrifying idea (to me).

On the other hand.......... CJ went a long way on her skills of painting skin color. The only slack I could give is 1) years ago nobody in the fandom knew how to paint dark skin, and even when ChoG came out a couple of years ago several artists showed how much they still didn't know how to paint dark skin with their takes on Cordelia and Alastair. It was a disturbing time; 2) CC's descriptions sucked ass.

First on the case of the Wiki: it's not 100% reliable, as I particularly noticed with skin color descriptions. I was the one to add there that Alastair has brown skin, what was written before was straight up lying and it was hard to not wonder if it was in bad faith somehow.

On the Rosales. The wiki has Diego described as olive-skinned with the only source being LoS, but in LoS his skin is described as brown.

Their color in that previous CJ artwork, as you noticed, sucks. Brown skin seems to be used very loosely in these books, and CJ seems to have projected Latino/Mexican stereotypes in her coloring of the ~Hispanic~ characters in general, and that goes together with the books also implying that Latinos all have the same coloring.

I know Americans/gringos don't understand much about Latinos but if you're doing some form of creation/art like writing and drawing it's expected that you try to understand this kind of thing.

Several of popular TDA fanart portrays Cristina very light, and it's annoying that people don't bat an eye at it. Latinos can have any skin color, and artists seem to use that as if it means that any color can be used to draw any Latino character, ignoring how they are actually described and instead going for the idea of Latino they have in their heads as reference.

Rafe is one of the Malec children and his ethnicity is left very vague, he is only assumed to be a person of color because he is Argentinian, but Argentinians are among some of the whitest Latinos. (No offense meant to Argentinians of color or even Argentinians in general - other Latino countries are often very white, like Cuba, with the obvious famous case of Camilla Cabello, a white Cuban). Rafe still could be an Argentinian of color, of course, but, you get what I mean? The generalization is definitely there.

Jaime's skin color has been corrected in his new flower card. I'm not Mexican so I'll just refrain from commenting the tattoo.

About Cordelia, you noticed the problem too. It was more a matter of general fucked-updness, but it's more complicated than it seems.

The oldest mention of Cordelia being half-Persian that I could find is from March 2014 (x). The first description was from CC's twitter in September 2014 (x) which artists used for a good while to make her very light colored, since it says "light" brown skin, and it was eventually changed to brown, just lighter than Sona's, Ariadnes's and Magnus' browns according to the on page TLH descriptions. Magnus really got darker over the tears didn't he

I assume this was the case of CJ too. I would like to point that since Persians can be generally very light-skinned, nobody had to assume they were dark skinned. I remember even talking to a Persian reader that was surprised at Cordelia and Alastair being dark skinned, but that person seemed to actually believe that they should be light skinned Persians, and I don't have knowledge of colorism-related tensions in Iran to have a deep understanding of this reaction. I don't get behind colorism.

Anyway, but even then CJ didn't have a problem drawing Sona brown-skinned, so she shouldn't have a problem drawing Cordelia brown skinned too.

There is the misconception going on even implied in the wiki that Cordelia and Alastair weren't Persian in the previous flower cards, that those arts were drawn before they were made to be Persian, and like I explained this is just NOT TRUE. CC and CJ simply fucked it up.

Have you seem one of Magnus previous flower cards? This is atrocious. What I collected in the books was that Magnus was first described as brown skinned in Clockwork Angel, it's a mistake that it wasn't first in TMI but CA is still many books and years ago. After it CC stil reblogged art with white-skinned Magnus and the fandom sure still did draw a lot of light skinned Magnus.

The casting for the movie and TV show surely didn't help. I was ignorant about the issues of Southeast Asian representation and this video series was very useful for me to understand the problem.

All these issues within TSC have been a big topic for me over the years, so I can discuss it at lenght, but here I talked a lot already. Hope my information was useful.

You probably have seen it already, but readers asked a lot for corrected flower cards of Cordelia and Alastair, and it happened. (x)

Thanks for reading all of this :)

- R

Like with the previous discussions about Cordelia, race, and racism in Clare’s writing, I said that I don’t really believe there to be any conscious malicious intent behind any of it. My opinion still stands on the thoughtless writing and Clare being unable to consider the implications of her writing being the main underlying issue. Obviously there are as many outlooks and thoughts on this as there are readers, and it’s difficult to speak in generalizations because the response Clare receives has been from side to side, and her readership is not a monolith.

I’m sure Clare doesn’t think of herself in any bad way, but as it is with her overall writing, her biases do show. The narrative is untrustworthy and partial to certain aspects and characters, so I can’t say those problems aren’t there. There’s also the issue of Clare’s behavior outside her books and writing. I am not incredibly familiar with everything within the fandom and readership, but I see stuff every once in a while. Somewhere around Chain of Gold, I saw people raising the issue of Clare’s Pinterest use. Where Cordelia was concerned, Clare favored images (for likeness, I assume) with light skin and red hair, because red hair was the trait she prioritized in Cordelia’s appearance, not her ethnicity which, I’d say, bears more significance and importance all things considered.

As to the flower cards, when An Illustrated History of Notable Shadowhunters & Denizens of Downworld was published in 2016, Cordelia’s card still featured her with white skin, though she and Alastair were told they were both half-Persian descent. Alastair did feature a bit darker skin tone though. Though it is notable that people of any descent vary in their looks, I think the problem was that Clare chose to include biracial characters of Middle Eastern descent and still chose Cordelia to be light-skinned, as if there wasn’t already so many white characters. I don’t know when the change did happen, but the flower cards did not reflect that Clare’s description of Cordelia in 2014: “She has light brown skin, dark red hair, and black eyes.”

It is questionable that only just a while ago in fall 2022 were the Cordelia and Alastair cards updated to be more appropriate to their looks. Also questionable that readers had to ask for them. Additionally questionable is that one twitter comment asking about Matthew and James because it seems like the purpose of updating Cordelia’s and Alastair’s cards went right over their heads. The information you provided was helpful, but also there still exists these inconsistencies that it’s incredibly hard to fault readers being upset with Clare and CJ. There’s been controversy around the official CJ art for a long time, I think (I suck at counting time), and it’s been really something. Aline, Jia, Magnus, for instance, were all drawn white for the longest time. There definitely has been issues with fan art overall as well for years, and not just exclusively in TSC fandom.

Magnus’ hands have been described as “white” two times, and both times (in City of Bones and City of Fallen Angels I think?) I was perplexed. Also shucks that the wiki wasn’t 100% accurate, because it was quicker to check it than go over everyone’s descriptions from the books. Also, now that you mentioned it, I did imagine Rafael with darker skin but because of the cover art for The Land I Lost, not that he was ever really described properly.

It’s good that you have personally been able to rise above the issue that it doesn’t hurt you anymore. The unplanned nature and the focus being somewhere else than authentic world-building goes for a long way in anything we discuss about TSC. There’s definitely stuff to be corrected in readers’ perception but at the same time, all the concern and hurt readers experience because of Clare’s thoughtlessness and bias are not negated by that (not that you implied it is, of course).

#Series discussion #Anti CC #Anti Cassandra Clare #Reply

17 notes · View notes

itsays · 2 years ago

Text

i think it's finally clicking what my doctor means by personality imbalance, not illness but also that sounds like his opinion lol

#so many sources call it an illness but i get his point of view #but i am gonna tell him that. that that's his OPINION lol #we havent actually discussed any of this btw like he just brought it up 5 minutes before our session ended just to tell me to do research #he said i could do my own research so it wouldn't be biased #AND THIS IS MY CONCLUSION

2 notes · View notes

scripttorture · 4 years ago

Note

Hello! I have a few questions related to your most recent post and the definition of torture. You said:

"A trained person who was never tortured will always out perform someone whose training involved torture."

According to everything else I have seen on your blog, this makes sense - the mental and physical trauma from being tortured have lasting effects which make certain tasks more difficult.

However, this seems to juxtapose certain tropes I've seen in US military training advertisements. For example, "Hell Week" in the Navy SEAL training seems like it would be torture if it was forced upon someone (like if the soldiers didn't sign up for it and didn't have the option to quit.). *Hell Week is when soldiers are training continuously for 5 days in freezing, wet conditions, with little more than 4 hours of sleep for the entire week, under insane amounts of physical and mental stress.

- If someone chose to be tested both mentally and physically, I feel like it wouldn't be torture. However, if the same exact conditions were forced upon someone else (testing their mental and physical limits without their consent or understanding), does your quote above mean that the person who did not have a choice would not reap the benefits of the training/testing? Or would the Navy SEALs be better soldiers if they didn't have to go through 'torturous conditions' during Hell Week, regardless of their choice to do so?

(I used Hell Week as an example, but I meant this question generally. I'm trying to figure out how to best train an elite soldier and avoid any harmful torture apologia tropes, while also making sure that they are able to handle insanely challenging situations)

- My other question has more to do with the definition of torture that you quoted from the UN in one of your master posts. If someone is being seriously injured (pulled fingernails, whipping, starvation etc), but not for the purposes of interrogation, punishment, or intimidation, is that still torture, or is that just abuse? And, regardless of what we call it, would the effects be the same as if it were torture for any of the three motives above?

Sorry if this is long and hard to understand, I can clarify if needed!

It’s not the longest I’ve gotten and it’s perfectly clear, duck*. :) Honestly this is a difficult topic with a lot of nuance, it’s better to take a longer and more thoughtful approach.

From the stand point of the legal definition and what we study/understand as torture any consensual activity, however extreme, is not torture.

But here’s where it gets interesting: consent and our attitude to an activity actually changes our response to pain. It may even change how much pain we feel.

I’m going to take a slightly different example to yours. There are a lot of cultures globally that have practiced scarification, ritual cutting to deliberately form scars. And this can be done for a lot of reasons: membership of a family or clan, coming of age, traditional medicine, religion, you get the idea.

A lot of people in these cultures describe their scars as incredibly important and the process of getting them as a moving, deep and positive process.

This does not mean they wouldn’t be traumatised if they were attacked by someone with a knife.

Being able to approach something painful and see it as positive really changes our perspective. It makes trauma and mental illness a lot less likely. And being able to back out, even if it’s just for a little while to take a breather, seems to make us able to withstand more pain then we would have otherwise.

The simplest and most famous experiment that dealt with this relationship between our mindset and pain asked people to keep their hands in ice cold water. They timed how long people could do it when they were told to stay silent and how long they could do it when they were allowed to swear. If they swore they could hold their hands under for longer. An average of forty seconds longer.

Looking back over O’Mara (Why Torture Doesn’t Work, a very good intro to how pain works and what it does to the brain) the way he describes it as by thinking of the experience of pain as a collection of three things. There’s the physical sensation itself, the nerves firing. But there’s also an affective component, how we feel emotionally about the experience and a cognitive component, how we think about it.

Did you ever play that game as a kid where you stuff as many chilis as possible in your mouth to see who would spit them out first? I… might have done. And from what I remember it hurts an awful lot. But those memories to me are mostly about messing about with my friends, I remember trying to be stubborn about it and I remember us laughing at each other.

This is a completely different experience to someone being held down and having chili stuff up their nose. But the difference isn’t necessarily in the physical damage done or the physical sensation of pain. It’s in the other components, the emotional response and the rationalisation.

I also had a filling drilled in my tooth without painkillers as a kid. I don’t know how common this is in the West? It happened in Saudi. Honestly my biggest memory of it is the language barrier between myself and the dentist.

These are anecdotes obviously but I’m trying to show that you probably also have experiences in your own life that back up the experiments too. The way we think about a painful experience really does make a huge amount of difference. And that means consent matters enormously.

These soldiers are going into this experience knowing what to expect, how long it will last and that they can stop at any time. That makes a huge amount of difference. Those same factors have drastically increased the time volunteers will spend in solitary confinement for research. I’m pretty sure if I dug even a little I’d find pain studies with similar findings.

Here’s the flip side: the physical factors are still in play.

Sleep is an important physiological process that’s essential to normal functioning. Studies on consensual sleep deprivation have shown massive negative impacts on memory along with a host of other things that you can read about here.

Let’s take a non torture example. A student who stays up all night cramming for an exam is not going to develop the symptoms of trauma that a torture survivors who was sleep deprived would. But the effect sleep deprivation has on memory is due to sleep playing an essential role in preserving memory (and learning more generally.) So they’re both likely to have difficulty remembering things in days just before and just after sleep deprivation. They’re also both more likely to have false memories and catch a bad cold.

As a result of this memory impairment I question the educational value of anything involving sleep deprivation: you can’t learn while messing up the processes that let your brain remember things.

There have been cases in the UK of people dying during training for the armed forces. Because while consent makes a huge difference, mindset makes a huge difference- our bodies still have limits. We can choose to push ourselves past those limits and, whatever our motivation or feelings, it can do real harm.

Personally? I’m unsure of the benefit of these kinds of exercises. As in I’m unsure there is a benefit. Learning is going to be shot, chances of injury are going to be a lot higher- I don’t see anything that could be improved by these sorts of exercises.

Anecdotally people do report feeling like a closer unit after going through these sorts of routines. That might be the benefit: moral and unit cohesion, possibly self-esteem too.

If you’re making up something for your story I think it’d be helpful for me to mention a little statistical effect that gets used to justify punishment pretty regularly. Get some dice out if you’ve got them and roll one. Let’s say the number represents performance in some kind of test (because effort and learning matter but our performance also varies because of things we can’t control.) A roll of 1 gets punished, a roll of 6 gets praised.

Now after you roll that first 1 statistically speaking the chances are your next roll will be better. And if you roll a 6 then statistically speaking the chances are your next roll will be worse. People observe this effect in real life and they often conclude that there’s no point in praising someone but that punishment leads to improvement. Really it’s just a statistical effect, after a particularly, noticeably bad day the chances are things will be better next and vice versa.

This effect can make it difficult for people to recognise overall, long term progress. Which is the kind of progress you should be paying attention to when designing a training program.

If you want good performance from people, whatever the metric, the most efficient thing to do is ensure that those people are; well fed, have access to clean water, get plenty of sleep, have breaks and have access to medical treatment when they need it.

I’d say the main things to keep in mind when designing this fictional training regime are:

Being honest about the effects you describe, ie if they’re spending long periods without shelter are they at risk from exposure? If they’re standing in cold water are they going to get hypothermia?

Remember that even if something is damaging or causes lasting trauma it would not necessarily prevent someone from doing their job. Torture survivors have serious, lasting symptoms but many of them still work.

I think I’m going to leave that there because I’m not an expert in militaries or training people. And keep in mind that I am a pacifist, read this with my biases in mind.

Getting to the second question, there is a little more to the UN definition then that. The primary factor is still who the abuser is. For it to be torture (legally speaking) the abuser has to be (or be ordered by) an on-duty government employee, part of a group that controls territory (ie an occupying force). Some countries also count international organised criminal gangs in this definition.

It’s also important to note that torture can be targetted at someone other then the victim. So if the police arrest the brother of a political opponent and beat him in order to intimidate the politician, that is still torture.

Basically there are a lot of factors in the legal definition of torture and it’s that way by design. The hope is that you end up with a framework that captures as much government abuse as possible.

But it also means that there’s a pretty high barrier when it comes to proving torture. Which means that things which are legally torture can be prosecuted as assault, bodily harm or equivalents to these, because it’s easier to get a conviction for those charges.

Technically you are correct: if abuse done by a government official doesn’t have one of the four motivations in the legal definition (attempts to obtain information, forcing a confession, intimidation or punishment) then it doesn’t meet the definition.

However in practice I’ve not heard of a case failing because of the motive.

I’m not a lawyer and I’m not an expert in international law. I won’t say it’s never happened. But it’s much more common for cases to fail for other reasons. Off the top of my head I’d say the most common reason is difficulty proving the abuse took place.

The most common types of torture today are ‘clean’, a term we use to indicate that they don’t leave obvious marks. If someone turns up with fingernails torn out or the skin of their back lacerated by a whip that is clear physical evidence of abuse. Nothing else causes similar injuries. But if someone turns up at a doctor’s with swollen feet or reddened skin, if they’ve lost a lot of weight or they’re so tired they’re struggling to stand… Well all of those things can be caused by common tortures. But they can also be caused by common illnesses.

A lot of the deaths from torture today are similarly hard to prove. Beatings and stress positions ultimately cause death by kidney failure. Which can mean that prosecutors are asked to prove a victim didn’t have an underlying health condition. Or take drugs.

Honestly my instinct is that the motive is the easiest thing to prove. It’s often harder to bring charges against people in positions of authority, regardless of the country we’re talking about. Bringing those charges, proving abuse took place and proving it was done by the person in question, those are usually the tricky parts.

The difference between torture and abuse is scale. Torture is industrial scale abuse.

The law doesn’t define that scale but that’s what we’re talking about when we talk about abuse from organised authority. Abusers might have dozens of victims. Torturers have thousands, tens of thousands.

If you want to explore a different motivation in your story, something outside the legal framework, consider the scale at which this abuse is taking place. Consider how organised it is. If it’s organised and large scale, with multiple abusers, with no prior relationship between the abuser and victims then torture will probably be a better model then abuse. If it’s smaller scale with a more personal relationship and if it isn’t supported by a legal framework/organisation then abuse might be a better model.

For victims and survivors the difference isn’t so much about the symptoms they personally experience as the… side effect of that scale. Abuse victims are often very isolated and may not know anyone who has had a similar experience. Torture implies a community of survivors and possibly generational trauma. There are also effects to do with access to support, access to medical care and how likely it is that someone will be believed.

Torture survivors are often systematically disenfranchised in a way that abuse victims are not. Torture survivors are often forced to leave their home country. Anecdotally, based on what I’ve seen globally over the last few years, I think that struggling to get citizenship is increasingly an issue for torture survivors. And without citizenship there’s difficulty finding legal work, getting accommodation, accessing medical care, accessing the legal system etc.

I do not know whether torture survivors are more or less likely to be believed by their community compared to survivors of abuse. I do not think any one has attempted a comparative study. I do know that the prevalence of clean torture means that many torture survivors are not believed and this puts up a further barrier, making it harder to access medical treatment and bring charges.

Rejali’s book was published in 2009, so things may have changed a tad. At the time he was writing the average wait for a torture survivor to see a specialist doctor was about 10 years.

Abuse is to torture what murder is to genocide. And there are difference on a wider social scale as a result.

I mention all that because I feel it’s relevant but the impression I get is you’re mostly interested in the long term symptoms? In which case, yes the legal definition makes very little difference. The physical injuries caused by particular kinds of abuse don’t change depending on whether it’s a private individual or a police officer holding the Taser.

The lasting psychological symptoms are not particular to torture; they’re what the human brain does when traumatised. The same symptoms can manifest in people who witness traumatic events but weren’t actually hurt themselves. They can manifest in people who were injured in accidents and they manifest in people who were neglected or abused. Hell, I have a couple of them, though no where near the severity a torture survivors would experience. A sufficient amount of stress is enough for these symptoms to start developing in anybody.

You can find the general list of symptoms here. There’s also a post specifically about memory problems over here.

The pattern I describe; that these symptoms are a list of possibilities not ‘every torture victim will get all of these’ holds true for trauma survivors generally. Anecdotally there is some variability with chronic pain being reported more often with some kinds of abuse. That might be because it can have physical causes, psychological causes or a mix of the two.

Whether it’s torture or abuse there isn’t any way to predict a survivor’s symptoms in advance. Much of the advice I have about writing torture survivors and their symptoms holds true for trauma survivors generally. Which is why I’ll still take a crack at some questions that aren’t about torture.

Pick the symptoms that you feel fit the character and serve the story. We can’t predict symptoms and that means that there’s no reason why you shouldn’t pick the things that appeal to you.

And I think I’m going to leave it there. I hope that helps :)

Available on Wordpress.

Disclaimer

*This is a weird English endearment. I had someone ask if this was me trying not to swear.

#orphicphosphenes #writing advice #tw torture #torture as training #legal definition of torture #clean torture #military abuse #trauma #trauma and consent #pain #pain and memory #sleep deprivation #attitudes towards clean tortures #writing survivors #abuse within the military

83 notes · View notes

msgrumpygills · 3 years ago

Note

Social Media Anon Here!

Firstly, never change Grumpy ;) you are probably the only person on Tumblr to LISTEN to another view and let it change a prejudice.

Secondly, the Padagram/Social Media change bus continues. Don't be fooled people will be looking at positive and negative reactions to that change on social media.

So here goes!

1. They are starting to market season 2 of Walker in Hiatus. That really doesn't happen. That means they know they need to target new viewers. They are acknowledging they have a problem. The main problem is Jared either didn't learn enough about production quality on SPN (Jensen/Misha were both more interested in behind the camera's) or that he thought he could stick a Stetson on and we all had such sh1t for brains we'd watch anything. So they need a viewer boost DESPARATELY and are going all out to (a) persuade Walkers remaining viewer(s) that it's worth sticking around and (b) get back old viewers or convert 1m+ viewers to season 2. So now we see all the cast (and Keegan has more followers than Jared and Lindsay has a VERY engaged following) trying to persuade their followers how fabulous Walker is. Expect this scrabbling to continue if they want their COVID paychecks.

2. Connected to 1, Jared has started trying to break out of the fandom bubble. I don't think he's trying for power couple (the clue in a power couple is that two FAMOUS people get together and create a super brand, here we have one niche C famous guy and a hanger on wife), I think we are in Jared profile raising and trying to raise his recognition score, which is probably a little low having half assed it in the last year and a half. He's doing it by scatter-gunning so I'm not sure it's going to stick.

3. Connected to 2,

(i) if I run my algorithm clean laptop with a "Jared Padalecki" news search, I get (a) a daily mail article on Jared "clarifying the rift" (b) a "hello" magazine saying he's been "inundated with support after death of "family member"" (c) the new york times article on Walker and Supernatural. It then goes into a variety of articles about Jared raising money for Holly's family (fucking atrocious in my view to use her death for publicity) and a series of derivative articles on his mantrum and later explanation. ONLY THE NEW YORK TIMES ARTICLE MENTIONS WALKER other than as a throw away, all of the others link to Supernatural only. Walker isn't on the main radar of anyone as a show. It's not mainstream enough to mention. it has ZERO buzz.

(ii) if I run the same search on my compromised tablet, I get a SEA of fluff articles "jared padalecki goes to venice", "jared padalecki's wife wishes him a happy birthday" "jared padalecki goes to watch soccer" "jared padalecki goes to the wrestling". I'm expecting "Jared Padalecki defecates regularly" tomorrow.

At the end of that I get the same articles as in (i) but the majority of his publicity is still going through the fandom and the, not very viewed, endless zine type websites that update on every episode of every geek show every day.

So we are seeing, and I expect it to continue, a break out Padalecki, (who knows he and his forehead may wish to have a final crack at films), and a fluff Padalecki, trying to stay relevant a year after SPN relevance ended, because he hasn't got the same push for season 2 of Walker as he had for season 1 and Walker has zero presence. No one, not even the fans are talking about Walker.

Will it work? I don't think so. Keegan has 7m followers on Insta and that's because he's a photographer and writer and it's interesting. I would follow his account (I don't), but certainly it isn't a Walker instagram.

Jared is a clever guy, but he's boring on social media. He has a limited appeal. He does family snaps, hunk snaps, flogs orange pee and flogs his show. He says "family" and "mantra" a lot but that's really it. The clue is, if you didn't know who he was and came across his instagram you wouldn't follow him. Why would you? For a video of a guy running up steps? A smug picture of two middle aged men trying to flog you something?... (oh and lots of "brother" comments on Keegan's social media, which is irritating. It's like he thinks that is his repeatable formula and it isn't).

His media approach won't work because advertising and exposure pushes a product. In TV's case, it's not a one off product and there is a lot of competition. Product Jared needs to be more interesting (his mantrum's are the only exciting thing about him - and that is tragic) and his TV show just needs to be BETTER, well, a LOT BETTER.

Soooo, expect the Padapush to continue, but it's not about a couple, it's about individual marketing and for Jared breaking out of SPN bubble. For Gen, it's her tag along profile that she'll never break out of. She'll have to be satisfied with her superpower of being able to persuade people to buy toothbrush's and dog food (if she can).

Expect though the couple's bit to die off a little. Jared is getting over exposed. His engagement rating is plummeting (nearly 3% is a plummet) because of the repetitive photo content. He'll have to back off or people will switch off (I have already). What makes me laugh is.... from the dawn of time when cavemen took their wives 2 miles away for a new cave weekend.... NO ONE HAS EVER BEEN INTERESTED IN SOMEONE ELSE'S HOLIDAY SNAPS.... Gen and Jared apparently need to learn that lesson...

I might stop these posts now because, well, it's gotta be a bit boring for you and I write LONG. :)

Stay safe and wear your masks ;) xxx

I don’t want you to ever ever change, lovely! Also, I’m NEVER bored by your messages! You put so much effort into the research you do and the messages you send and it’s appreciated! <3

I started following Lindsey on IG because she seems pretty genuine, and her cat is way too cute! Plus, I like her attitude. I haven’t followed her for the whole Walker season, but even she doesn’t post a lot about it. She posts interviews and then posts about that night’s episode, but other than that, nothing. Can’t speak for Keegan, but how are fans and non-fans supposed to be excited about a show when the people STARRING in the show can’t be bothered? Maybe they’re all aware of how shitty it is or maybe they’re lazy, but it doesn’t make sense.

I’m always interested to see the difference in an “algorithm-free” setting and one that has an algorithm. I always figured Google was the same for everyone, but seeing the difference in articles you’ve outlined is insane. It really just goes to show that Jared isn’t the star that his stans think he is. He’s not as important as they think he is, he’s just an actor. It’s even more jarring to see just how little Walker is talked about at all. All of my devices probably have been “contaminated” when it comes to algorithm so I can’t really speak personally about the public and fans talking about Walker or not talking about it. I can say that on the posts about Walker from the Supernatural Facebook page, a good chunk of the comments are people saying they stopped watching, never got into it, or thought it was trash. There are only a handful of comments talking about how they enjoy the show.

I think it was disgusting for him to use a fan’s passing for publicity. And no, I don’t think it was anything other than a PR stunt. Her family had a GFM going that was promoted by plenty of the case INCLUDING GEN, so you know he knew about it. But for him to make his own special one and then have articles posted everywhere about how charitable he is? That’s gross PR bullshit and I hope it backfires.

I still follow a few Supernatural fans, Jared fans, Jensen fans, etc. on Tumblr and even they aren’t mentioning it. I think maybe the hardcore Jared stans post gifsets or whatever, but I don’t see much praise for the show itself, just Jared’s looks. Even the fans aren’t biting and that would make me reevaluate everything if I was Jared.

I'm expecting "Jared Padalecki defecates regularly" tomorrow. This made me laugh way too hard!

who knows he and his forehead may wish to have a final crack at films You are on a ROLL! Maybe I’ve become biased, but I can’t see Jared doing films. I mean, I could see him doing like a side character role or something small, but I can’t see him having a big part of a movie. Like I said, maybe that’s me being biased but I see him staying in TV. I could be proven wrong, but I don’t know.

I agree about Jared being boring on SM. I used to get some giggles from his Twitter posts and even some of his early IG posts because they were goofy, clever, and candid. It showed his humor and was more personable. Now it’s just all fake and comes off as someone whose only motivation to engage with fans is money and that’s a big turn off.

For me personally, I think that if instead of the “couple goals” bullshit that they try to push for their lavish trips, if they just posted cool pictures they took of different locations, activities, food or whatever, that would be more palatable than all the “Look at my hubster and I! We’re in Italy! Look at how in love we are!” But maybe that’s because I’ve become a bit of a photography nerd?

I guess time will tell whether or not Jared will make positive changes and if Walker can be saved, but I’m not really optimistic about it.

I AM optimistic about your takes on things so keep them coming! Long posts or not, I love them! <3

#grumpy answers #social media anon #anti jared padalecki #anti walker

24 notes · View notes

fillingthescrapbook · 3 years ago

Text

Rewriting The CW's Kung Fu, Part 9: Reflections and Moving Forward

And we have reached the end of our Kung Fu journey. If you haven't seen where we began, here's a handy guide to the previous posts:

Part 1: The Characters

Part 2: The Pilot

Part 3: The Mythology

Part 4: The Story Map

Part 5: Act I

Part 6: Act II

Part 7: Act III

Part 8: The Finale

Before I start with the lessons I learned and my other reflections, I want to thank @flailingbloo for all of her help and support in this endeavor. Without her to talk to and commiserate with, I would probably have gotten stuck in Act II forever and everything I've written would've been riddled with spelling errors and grammatical mistakes. So my eternal gratitude to flailingbloo. And now, we begin:

Lessons.

Going into this writing exercise, I already knew it was going to be hard. Writing stories is time-consuming, it's nerve-wracking, and it takes a lot of research...and patience. Writing, especially for television, is also not a solitary task. I mean, sure, the writing itself needs to be done alone--but everything that comes before, during, and after the writing needs input from so many people.

Although I have a lot (and I mean A LOT) of complaints about how The CW's Kung Fu was handled and written, I do have a lot of respect for the work that the writers put into their scripts. And I do appreciate all that they have done to have a show like this produced.

Doing this rewrite, I learned that it's really important to make the main character likeable. Like, every episode I broke down, I had to ask myself: is Nicky likeable here? Is she someone who viewers would want to root for? Like, for me she is, but only people who read what I wrote can say for sure. My perspective is now a bit skewered because I have bias.

Second, story maps are very helpful. There were times, especially during Part 6 (where I wrote breakdowns for Episodes 6 to 9) where I kept getting road-blocked by where I want the story to go. So I went back to the story map over and over again, to remind myself--where does the story itself need to go? How do I help the characters get to the point where they're ready for what needs to happen? (This is also where flailingbloo helped the most for me. Like, she really reminded me why I was doing this rewrite in the first place. Because I care about Nicky and the show. I wouldn't have funneled so much of my time and effort into this if I didn't.)

Another thing I learned, or rather re-learned, is the art of letting go. I created the character of Stanley to recur throughout the series as a reminder of who Nicky was and who she is becoming. And then I finished writing the first act without even mentioning him. By the second act, I was ready to use him finally--but, after multiple false starts, I realized Stanley was one of the reasons why I was having a hard time pushing Nicky's story forward. Because I kept trying to go back to the past. So I decided in the writing of the second act to shelve Stanley completely, only to find him popping up in the second to last episode in a, at least I hope, more organic way.

The last thing I learned in this exercise was that, whenever a new character needs to come in, I have to look at my existing characters first to see if any one of them can fulfill the role I needed for the story. Like, creating new villains for Nicky was fun, sure--but, at the same time, I realized that there were already existing villains that could recur. Like the Triad, who played villains in two more episodes after the pilot; and Henry's martial arts class at the community center became the source of two existing storylines from the actual show.

Reflections.

Do I think what my rewrite is better than the show? To me, yes. But, again, I am very biased. That said, I am proud of how I utilized the characters that the show created and didn't really give much importance to. Dennis, when he was introduced, felt like a rich character that could provide a very different point-of-view from the Shen siblings--but he was mostly relegated to being eye-candy. And I thought I gave him more meat by making him more involved in Althea's sexual harassment storyline, while also involving him in Nicky's stories.

That said, I also realize that I wasn't able to play up Nicky and Evan's past relationship as I was writing the episodic breakdowns. I was able to give them a lot of opportunities to explore their chemistry together, as I did with Nicky and Henry, but I kind of dropped the ball as a writer on guiding those planted moments into something more significant. Granted, I only wrote breakdowns and not actual scripts. Maybe I could've explored the romance angle more with a little sprinkle of direction and dialogue.

As I went deeper into the rewrite, I do see how easy it is to fall in love with characters as you write them. It's very easy to trap yourself into wanting villains to be more well-rounded. I keep having to remind myself that I don't have to redeem everyone. Just Nicky. Which became harder and harder as I went further and further into the story.

Another thing that became difficult as I went on? Keeping the mythology from just bursting open. That's how Henry, as I wrote him, evolved into becoming the son of a guardian--just so there's a reason for him to be so invested in Nicky's quest, while also having someone who can explain things to our main character. I'm actually really proud of that evolution.

All that said, I also have to recognize that I rewrote the show with the benefit of hindsight and the lack of budget constraints. In the real show, there's a group of writers who each have their own ideas of what the show should be. (This is where a head writer--not a show runner--would come in handy, so they could reel in the story to what needs to be told.) With more writers comes more chances for inconsistencies to happen. (And this is where a script supervisor, or a writing assistant, could come in handy.) And then there's production notes and budget. Not to mention, you know, the whole pandemic that's still happening. I didn't have to think about those things while doing this rewrite.

So, again, I want to give the writers kudos to actually producing scripts. I hope they haven't lost their minds--or their will to write--just because there are people like me who nitpick at everything. That's what people who love things do. We nitpick because we care.

Moving forward.

I do plan to stick with the real show for Season 2. I hope it's planned better. I hope they get researchers (plural!) and a writing assistant to help in the writing room. I hope the writers would sit down with the cast to discuss and develop the characters more. And I really hope they hire a better fight choreographer and fight director for the second season. (Like, rehire the people who choreographed and filmed the flashback scene in... Episode 11? The one with Nicky's maternal grandmother and Pei-Ling's own mother?)

I hope that the Nicky-Henry relationship gets explored realistically, and if a potential new love interest is ordered, they get introduced in a way that isn't antagonistic. Make them more well-rounded characters too, please. Make us want to root for their success. And while I think Nicky doesn't have an iota of chemistry with Evan, I do like Evan himself as a character. So I hope they get him more involved in future storylines--as an outsider looking in, sure, but also as an honorary member of the Shen family.

With regards to the Shen family, I do hope that we get to explore their relationships and dreams more before the show drops the reveal about Mei-Xue's daughter. I want Althea to have a cohesive storyline that doesn't pause for no reason. I want Ryan to explore being Asian AND gay as a first-generation Asian-American. And give the Shen siblings some recurring friends. They don't have to be semi-regulars (unless there's a story that can be explored) but let's not keep the Shens in a bubble. It was weird in the first season. Especially for Althea whose friends only showed up for her bachelorette party and never again. Not even when she was panicking about wedding preparations, which, considering how rich Dennis's parents were? They wouldn't let Althea be in charge of anything. They would hire a Chinese wedding coordinator. And an expensive and hard-to-book one at that. They donated an entire hospital wing, for crying out loud.

I want Jin to have an actual character, and not just be the supportive dad who loves his kids very much (admittedly my own rewrite also made this same mistake). And I want Mei-Li to be consistent as a character. Like, no more surprise twists about being the descendant of a legendary warrior without proper foreshadowing and plot-planting please.

Dennis shouldn't just be eye-candy. The same applies to Kerwin. Sure, I get that shirtless men are a must in a CW series, but please give their characters some meat too. Dennis's nerd-side was never showcased in the show, and Kerwin had that poor little rich boy background that didn't get explored either. Because the show was too busy keeping him and Zhi-Lan tearing each others' clothes off--when they're not tearing other people down.

Also, don't drop the ball on the tease that Bian-Ge is now everywhere. If I understood correctly, Bian-Ge is Kung Fu's version of Qi. If yes, then I hope they treat it respectfully as a force of nature--and not just the source of magic. The flowers from Bian-Ge itself can be magical, sure, I have no problem with a fictional flower being a McGuffin.

Finally, I hope the show also explores other Asian communities and cultures. Like, Kung Fu is great--but imagine if Nicky had to face someone who is versed in Silat Melayu? Or someone who uses Arnis? Someone who practices Kalaripayattu or Lathi Khela? Or Kuntao? Imagine Nicky having to use Wing Chun against someone who uses Karate or Krav-Maga? Asia is a big continent and there are so many different types of martial arts found from the Middle East to Southeast Asia. Kung-Fu is an umbrella term, so it'll be great to see the different styles found under it.

... This went long again. Sorry about that. Funny thing is, when I started this whole rewriting plan? I thought it would take three posts, tops. And look at us now. Nine posts deep, and it seems I still haven't run out of things to say. So I'm cutting myself off before I completely wear out my welcome.

But if you've read all my Kung Fu posts, please do reach out. Let's discuss the show and what it can do to produce a better second season.

#Kung Fu CW #tv talk #my words

4 notes · View notes

willow-salix · 4 years ago

Text

Day 2 of Isolation on Tracy Island 2.0 (Fluffember prompt : sky)

Day 2 of Isolation 2.0 on Tracy Island and...well I'll be honest, it's not been too bad yet. Everyone seems a lot more civilised than they were the first time, maybe because it's not as bad globally as it was back in… March was it? What year is this, do I still have my youth or have they sucked it out of me?

Anyway, yes, they are better behaved than the first time, I guess because the shock's over with and it's been so long in a kind of half limbo that we're pretty used to it now. They spent the night trying to convince me that they had dragged me from my little witch cave for my benefit rather than theirs, they lie.

Either way, they are slightly less rowdy, according to Jeff, slightly tidier, according to Grandma but still not at all self sufficient, according to John.

I'd decided that, as I had little choice in the matter, I'd make the best of it. I strolled into the empty lounge, dropped my three bags on the floor, raised my arms and yelled at the top of my voice, "Honey, I'm home!"

I don't know what I expected, maybe to be greeted enthusiastically, to have various family members run in from all directions, so happy and grateful to see me, I mean, I was pretty open to any display of affection, truth be told.

But no, not one of them bothered to come and say hello.

"I might as well go back home," I grumbled to Scott who had finished the post flight checks of One and ambled in after me. "I even brought snacks and I'm being ignored."

"Snacks?" his hand was in the bag I indicated by kicking it with my toe before I'd even finished speaking.

"Well, now I know why I was wanted," I sniffed. "Let me guess, food standards have slipped now that you've all eaten through the meals I left in the freezers last time I was here?"

"That has nothing to do with why we wanted you," he assured me, flopping down on one of the couches with his pilfered bounty bar. He unwrapped the chocolate and bit into it, humming happily. "You always bring the best chocolate with you."

"Well, I don't like that American stuff you get," I dropped down beside him and stole the other half of the bar.

"There's nothing wrong with American things," he argued. "Quality products from there."

My eyes slid sideways to look at him. "Dude, are you counting yourself as a quality product?"

"Maybe," he didn't bother denying it.

There wasn't much I could say to that really so I shifted the conversation.

"Where are the other idiots?"

He shrugged.

"That's helpful, thanks." I sighed, resting my head back against the sofa. It was weird but this time really did feel so different, almost like it had been inevitable, we were just waiting for it to come.

"I'm not doing all the work this time," I warned him, "like, you guys are gonna have to step up, I refuse to be your maid and run around after you all like I did last time. New lockdown, new rules."

"We don't need a maid," he argued. "Is it so hard to believe that we just want you here so we're all together?"

I shrugged, still feeling a bit like I'd been both blindsided and guilt tripped into it, not to mention feeling rather damp and itchy from the decontamination chamber Brains has forced me into. I told him that I'd been extra careful, that I'd been following the social distancing, yet he hadn't listened and still insisted that I needed to be blasted.

"Here's the thing," he poked me to make sure I was listening. "Last time you were here to help us get through it. We were all feeling a bit helpless and frustrated and without you here distracting us and bossing us around, things would have been a lot worse. This time is different, this time it would be you stuck at home, we're still able to go out and do our jobs now, even though we're still getting fewer calls than normal and some countries aren't allowing entry, but because of that, as soon as your lockdown came in you would have been alone for a month."

"I think I could have handled that."

"Do you though, do you really?"

I glanced at him, not detecting the teasing tone I had been expecting. Could I have handled it? So many people were stuck alone, unable to see their loved ones, their friends and family or to even go to work again. All the little things that make life more bearable and they had been taken away again. I like peace and quiet, but I knew he was right, being locked away, on my own for another month, maybe longer, it wouldn't actually be good for me.

"Admit it, you love us, you'd miss us."

"I admit nothing," but he was right, I would. I hadn't really thought about it, I guess that's what everyone is doing, trying not to think about it all too much but, while the thought of having a month at home, in peace and quiet sounded like a dream, I wouldn't actually want it.

"You're back!" Alan yelled, cannonballing onto the sofa from parts unknown.

"I guess so," I conceded, trying not to melt when he squished up beside me and stole the chocolate I'd been eating.

"Do you mind?" I asked, purely because I felt I had to, not for any real need to tell him off.

"Nope," he grinned, popping the bounty in his mouth.

"Wait, that's…coconut," I trailed off as he gagged, looking for somewhere to spit it out. I handed him a tissue from my bag and he gratefully emptied his mouth.

"This is going to be hell, isn't it?" I asked no one in particular.

"Probably," Scott agreed, wrapping his arm around my shoulders. "But at least we'll all be together."

"Joy," I muttered but I did hug him back.

"Are you going to keep a diary this time, too?" Alan asked, having recovered a bit.

"I might," I hedged, not telling him that I'd started yesterday. "But I'm not doing it alone this time, you're all going to help me. Deal?"

"Deal," he agreed.

Gradually a few more wandered in, mostly to pick through my luggage like the vulture that they are, knowing that this time I had been wise enough to bring the contents of my fridge and half my cupboards with me.

Gordon yoinked my pringles, Alan took my milkshake, Virgil helped himself to my chocolate chip cookies.

"Hi," the normally beloved voice said behind me.

I didn't turn around. "I blame you for the fact that I'm here again, you know that, right?"

"Yep," John dropped down beside me on the couch, lifting his arm for me to snuggle under.

"Cuddles will not make up for this betrayal," I warned him, not that it stopped me from taking advantage of it. Any Tracy in a storm and all that, plus this one might be the best, though I am slightly biased.

"We appreciate your sacrifice," he told me solemnly. "And to show our appreciation, we organised a little something."

"You did?" Did I sound sceptical? I believe I did.

"We did!" Alan joined in. "We did some research and found that it's traditional to eat baked potatoes and chilli tonight."

"It is?" I frowned, wracking my brains as to what the heck he was talking about. I was also slightly worried about who had done the cooking.

"Yes," John got up, dragging me to my feet and propelled me towards the windows. He nodded to Virgil, who messaged Brains, saying something I couldn't hear.

As one, all the other idiots surrounded us, all looking up, heads tipped back expectantly, like baby birds awaiting food.

"What are we doing?" I asked, completely confused.

"It's November 5th," Scott answered. "Remember, remember the 5th of November."

Oooooh. I didn't have time to answer as the first rocket shot up into the air, exploding in a burst of colour and sound, lighting up the dark night sky...

#thunderbirds in isolation #thunderbirds are go #isolation island #thunderbirds 2015 #thunderbirds #witch #thunderbirds fanfiction

31 notes · View notes

bloodinacake · 5 years ago

Text

Note: Do not attack or send any hate towards the people I interview. Let's begin with @darlingcalvin who let me interview them!

Question One: How did you find out about Columbine?

DC: I guess it's just something I've always kind of known about. I'd hear all about it when I was younger, but I never really understood it's significance until i reached intermediate school. There was more emphasis on school shootings and our teacher had to prepare us in the event of that happening. Through there, I learned more about Columbine, Sandy Hook, and other infamous school shootings in detail, as it was something that fascinated me and still does. The rest is history.

Question Two: Do you think your interest in Columbine reaches a unhealthy level?

DC: I wouldn't believe so, no. It does not stem beyond morbid fascination for me personally. I do not romanticize or fantasize about the perpetrators - Eric and Dylan - and nor do I hold them on a 'godlike' pedestal. They were sick, and they needed help. However, I do try to empathize with them because I know they were suffering.

In short, I don't think my interest goes too far. It doesn't really stem beyond this tumblr account.

Question Three: How do you feel about those that do romanticize serial killers and mass shooters or look up to them?

DC: When it comes to them, I don't find myself mad but instead partially sad. People who do romanticize and look up to serial killers are probably impressionable people with dark thoughts and real problems. They do not know how to deal with it, so they find comfort in this 'dark and godlike' figures. They seem to relate to them somehow. I just hope for them to get help, to get someone to listen to them. Because I do know that they need it.

That can't be said for everyone, of course, as I don't mean to diagnose and generalize a group of people. However, from my experience with that part of the TCC, I genuinely hope they get out of that and learn that there is more light and happiness in this life. :)

Question Four: What's your opinion on those who bash columbiners and the rest of the TCC based on the misinformed actions of some people? (Those inspired by school shooters that try to shoot up their own school for example).

DC: I think they are misinformed, like you said. I think they have reason, in their mind, to bash the TCC as a whole based on those people - I mean, after all, can you blame them? However, it makes me sad knowing that I can't openly say that I am interested in True Crime without people thinking I want to fuck school shooters (pardon my language), so I wish some people did their research more into a community instead of blindly bashing it because others did some terrible things.

Question Five: Does anyone outside of tumblr know of your interest in true crime?

DC: My dad and I share an interest in true crime (his not being as large as mine), so he does know. However, no one else in my family / none of my friends really know. I don't try to hide it persay, but like I mentioned earlier, I can't tell people without them thinking I want to either shoot up my school or marry a serial killer.

Question Six: That's understandable. Have you ever received any hateful messages or threats?

DC: No, thankfully.

Question Seven: Do you think the stigma with true crime will ever change?

DC: To be quite honest, I don't think it'll ever change. It may shift slightly, but not quite change. Murder, in general, is a taboo topic on it's own. While there has been a steadily climbing interest in true crime, there is still that sense of taboo linked to it that 'warrant' people wanting to bring it down. Murder, in my mind, will never be okay. And many people also think that way. Coupled with misconceptions about true crime as a community, I don't see the perception of it getting much better, if anything.

Question Eight: My wifi diead sorry. Do you feel that the community itself is to blame for ghe stigma and stereotyping it gets?

DC: It's all good!

To some extent, yes. I don't believe it is the community as a whole that is to blame, but the actions of a few people in this community that cause the stereotyping and the stigma. For instance, condoners and romanticizers. However, I do think that outsiders see this, and perceive it to be the community as whole (which, in turn, is where the stigma arises from). So, while I don't think the community collectively is to blame, there are a vocal few in the community that cause outsiders to antagonize us.

Question Nine: How has tcc effected the way you see everyday life, if at all?

DC: I guess you could say that the TCC has helped me learn to value my life more. I research these tragedies on the daily - I'm constantly surrounded by the sad truth that many people's lives were cut short due to it. Through my research and through joining this community, I learn to show respect to the victims, who had no say in their deaths. It's a constant reminder that life is, ultimately, fleeting. I need to make the most of it while I still have mine - I guess it's a way to honor those who weren't able to.

Question Ten: Do you feel as though the tcc has helped victims?

DC: I've actually enjoyed this interview! It's given me a chance to think about my role in this community :))

I would like to think that we do. Throughout the community, many great and wonderful people are creating accounts and posts dedicated to the victims and raising awareness about them. It may seem rather trivial, but these accounts are promoting a genuinely positive message. Instead of glorifying the killers, they bring light to the stories of the victims. It really is a beautiful thing to see, in my opinion.

To end it off, I know that the TCC as a community is a very polarizing topic to discuss. I will admit, we have some pretty awful people in our community - they glamorize these killers, follow in their footsteps, and the like. However, I want to bring more light to the wonderful side of this community: The side that spends hours upon hours researching, making sure everyone has the facts over biased opinions. Those that talk about these tragedies, but respectfully so to where the killers are not glamorized. And most importantly, those that raise awareness to the victims and their families. Our community may seem like a bunch of murder obsessed weirdos, but in all actuality I've met some of the nicest, most caring and genuine people through the TCC.

Thank you so much for this opportunity to share my beliefs, it means a lot xx

#tcc #true crime community

5 notes · View notes

variousqueerthings · 3 years ago

Text

the more general thing - to talk about my own tags - is also not specific to Dr James Barry so much as general framework and methodology of talking about gender in the past, which is obviously complicated a lot of the time however

even as we're ostensibly moving away from the more egregious stance of "everyone is presumed inherently cisgender, despite any and all indications of gender queering" we're still sort of doing that

academia is opening the door to talk about gender in a more complex way, which is very exciting, but just saying "we want to be open to all opinions" isn't very functional (I will also say, the lecturers said that framework and methodology of course changes from person to person - there is a strong possibility that these two people simply haven't researched Dr Barry enough in depth to feel comfortable talking about him in a specific way! however, if your focus is radical genders in the 19th century, I do feel like Dr Barry is a big talking point right now, so I hope to add something to that discussion when I'm in a more open space with them)

it's still shying away from the fact that in a lot ways we are bringing our biases into the picture, and I think those need to be acknowledged more, so that you know where that researcher is coming from:

1. If the researcher makes the choice to only use the pronouns that x person used for themselves, then Lister would be she/her and Barry would be he/him

2. If the researcher makes the choice to explore how the world in different contexts at the time they were alive interacted with Lister and Barry, Lister may be they/them (taking on both masculine and feminine positions at different times) or she/her (I do not believe that he/him was ever used to describe Lister during her lifetime, but I could be wrong?), and Barry would still be he/him - if said researcher is also speaking about Barry before he took on that name, perhaps the researcher might for those sections use she/her (this wouldn't be my preferred choice, I'm just stating it is a choice)

3. If the researcher makes the choice to use personal materials - ex. letters, diaries, transcripts of court trials - and making an informed choice about how this person saw themselves, then Lister might be she/her or they/them, depending on how that researcher deciphers that text - Barry would still be he/him. All Barry's words about himself, specify that he is a "gentleman"

As far as I can see, the only framework that exists for calling Dr Barry either she/her or they/them are those that were created after his death, expressly without his consent (not that he did or did not consent to they/them, but it's proof of discomfort that makes me very wary, in the same vein as "women and non-binary" does -- it's softly adding Barry to the "woman's" category)

anyway, I'm this close to writing a paper and submitting it to their publication. I have joined their reading group, so that will be exciting

I also want to add, that I think often these frameworks need to be bolder: people like Anne Lister or Natalie Barney were very clearly gender radicals (and lesbians), but I think they need to encompass all examples of people - and I know I haven't gone into people like Mademoiselle D'eon (a smidgeon earlier historically than everyone else I've namedropped) or Fanny and Stella or William Dorsey Swann, who were all assigned male at birth, because I hyperfixate on Dr Barry and the ways in which people make the case of "but if x historical woman wanted to have a job she had to pretend to be a man, case closed" (which... is kind of the case of the first three I just mentioned but in the other direction, or going much further back, the same thing often said about Eleanor Rykener)

they need to encompass writers like Eliot or the Brontës publishing under pseudonyms, ideals of masculinity in the army, the origins of modern drag (Dorsey Swann) and Music Hall, the pre-sexology attitudes towards gender and sexuality, crossdressing on the stage (Sarah Bernhardt), sex workers, etcetc.

It's interesting that as things move into the mainstream - that queer people exist - they also become flattened and simplified, when gender and sexuality - and gender and gender roles - overlapped a great deal more in the past, and honestly still do

another thing is that you still find people - and so far in my experience it's been exclusively older people - coming to trans groups describing themselves as "crossdressers" -- it's all trans, all the same

I also am slowly discovering a wealth of resources and spaces that do encompass these more complex frameworks -- I'm hoping they'll bleed into wider methodology in future

@oh2e how deep does the James Barry unconscious research bias go?

well, I just attended a lecture on Radical Genders in the 19th century and the generally quite good!!!! lecturers

1. called him James "Miranda" Barry Every Time they talked about him (the airquotes felt real - the lecturers would pause before the "Miranda" in that suspicious way), which I'm using as a litmus test now for how much incorrect information people have taken in about him/primary source material they've interacted with and consciously taken in

2. never put the "Doctor" honorific in front of his name (I'm petty maybe, but you insist on the "Miranda" but won't give him "Doctor"? not once?)

3. used they/them pronouns throughout, even though Barry you know... obviously used he/him pronouns? (whose sensibilities do you think you're protecting here???? who are you respecting????)

- in comparison other "gender radicals" were all spoken of with their pronouns assigned at birth (ex. Ann Lister) because those were the pronouns those people used about themselves

4. made a lot of points about how you can Never Know Someone's Relation To Gender In The Past and must always be open to others' "interpretations" (specifically in relation to Dr Barry)

the blindspot in research bias is very real

#queer stuff #queer #queer history #james barry #oh hold on im not done talking i said to nobody's surprise...

120 notes · View notes

citycfangels · 7 years ago

Conversation

text: raquel ⇄ charlie

Raquel: so I have good news and bad news so which do you want to hear first?

Charlie: i would tell you to tell me the bad ones first so the good ones sound even better, but i'll let you choose

Charlie: is everything okay?

Raquel: Oh, I'm okay. Everything is okay.

Raquel: and I probably should have just said I have news. And I sort of have to give you the good news to explain the bad news.

Raquel: So the good news is that I talked to my agent and he wants me to get more exposure and with a bunch of random events coming up they want me to go to them and schmooze up people and just get my face out there more.

Raquel: bad news: you might just have to put on a monkey suit and come with me to events.

Raquel: I mean if you want to go at all.

Charlie: oh, that sounds really good. it'll do you good, considering that, from what i know about that business, is that you need to get your face out there to succeed.

Charlie: i see a couple of problems with that: 1) i've never worn a suit so i know nothing about suits, 2) i don't own any and 3) i'm not swimming in money to buy one.

Raquel: yeah that's sort of what they said. They said that they feel like they can market me and that they can get more buzz around me if more people know what i look like and if I'm able to do more print and commercial ads which I'm okay with. Just looks like I might have to dip back into my "modeling" contacts and maybe even do more music video like things.

Raquel: 1. I've never worn a suit either so we're in the same boat there but there are people who know about them and I'm sure we won't have a problem trying to find one 2 and 3. Your girlfriend has money. Your girlfriend wants this because there is no one else she wants near her at these events so that's not something you have to worry about.

Charlie: that may be a good idea. the more face exposure and contacts you have, the better.

Charlie: you know how i feel about letting you pay for my things, but if that's what you want, i'll let you pay for the most expensive suit we find. i can't afford one right now so i'll let you buy me one.

Charlie: but i don't have to look like a fucking penguin, right?

Raquel: This could work for the both of us somehow. Maybe this can get you exposure too. Like later on once the bar is open.

Raquel: I know how you feel about it and I don't want to step on your toes but you should know that there shouldn't ever be a time where you need to worry about money. Besides suits are investments. No you don't have to look like a penguin.

Raquel: Besides I think a blue suit would look perfect on you.

Charlie: yeah, that'd be helpful.

Charlie: okay, it seems i haven't gotten used to it already. i will try to not worry about money ever.

Charlie: how are suits investments exactly?

Charlie: thank fucking you bc i don't want to look like a fucking penguin. i mean, i'd look hot with a suit but that's not my style at all.

Charlie: we'll see about it, i have to try them on when we go shopping. no tie or anything like that?

Raquel: and I promise that I'm never going to like shove money in your face and it's not like I'm suddenly becoming your sugar mama or something.

Raquel: Suits are an investment because they're a gentleman's armor. And yes I did take that from a movie but they're an investment because you can use them more than once AND they just make any guy look really sexy. They're sort of a necessity now.

Raquel: I'm only saying no tie because then I'll just keep thinking about how much better it would look around my wrists tying me to the headboard. or about how you can use it as a blindfold.

Raquel: and it would just distract me throughout the night. I'd just keep pulling you in for a kiss with it so really i'm just saving you the trouble.

Charlie: if you say so, then i'll take your word and i'll keep a couple of suits on my wardrobe, just in case i need them. plus, we both agree i'd be hot as fuck in a suit.

Charlie: i shouldn't be surprised that you're having such kinky thoughts because a simple tie would distract you all the time.

Charlie: i wouldn't mind you pulling me in with it and kissing me, but i guess we have to keep the pda to a minimum, right?

Raquel: I do say so and it'll just be good for you to have. There might be a lot more events later on once my career does pick up and there's no one else I want by my side. I think you look hot in everything and nothing so i'm pretty biased.

Raquel: what can i say? I've had someone corrupt me and it's not like I'm going back now.

Raquel: I can always use the ends of your jacket for that. I don't think we'll have to keep too much of it down. They haven't said anything about marketing and sex appeal and all the typical stuff so it's not like they want me to seem single.

Raquel: I don't think I could do that anyway. Denying that I'm with you would be denying my happiness and denying how important you are to me and I'm not going to do that.

Raquel: Ever.

Charlie: we'll, i'll keep a couple of them then, mostly because i'd look hot in them. you're not so bad yourself, with and without clothes

Charlie: mmm, i wonder who corrupted you. now i'm tempted to buy some and see what can we do with them

Charlie: babe, if you ever have to make it look like you're single for a while if that makes you look better in hollywood's eyes, you know i'd support you because i want you to succeed and make it.

Charlie: it wouldn't be the ideal and i wouldn't be happy about it either but

Charlie: let's hope we don't have to do that

Raquel: well with the whole clothes thing you should expect a lot more dresses. I know sometimes we just get dresses and suits on loan so that will hopefully keep our closet from exploding.

Raquel: I wonder who did. He must be a really cheeky and incredibly handsome person. Tempted to just buy ties so that you can use them on me? I might like that. A lot.

Raquel: No.

Raquel: I don't want to be the type of actress that is marketed like that. I am with you and I don't need to deny that not when I know how talented I am and how hard I have worked. I can have sex appeal and that attraction and still tell people that there is someone important in my life. I don't want you to become like one of those hollywood partners that gets bothered because of my job but you aren't just going to be someone they can erase. I won't let that happen.

Charlie: our closets. we don't share one, babe

Charlie: yes. i might do a research on what to do with ties in the bedroom department

Charlie: how the fuck did i get so lucky to be dating you?

Raquel: right. We don't.

Raquel: only if I get to tie you up too.

Raquel: I don't think you're that lucky. Maybe I just think you deserve more than you think you do.

Charlie: i don't see why not.

Charlie: sometimes i think i don't deserve you, or at least i didn't deserve you a while ago. still, i think i'm lucky

Raquel: you don't see why we don't share a closet now???? Because we both have our own places which is us respecting each other's spaces and knowing that sometimes we might want to be alone and because my stuff would totally cross over to your side so it's really all just for the sake of my clothes that we don't.

Raquel: Wait you meant don't see why I wouldn't be able to tie you up with a tie. Right.

Raquel: well that just means I get to ride you. Take control. That you can't even smack my ass or hold onto me like I know you love to. It means you just have to lie there and let me take care of you until you cum inside me.

Raquel: baby you deserve the world.

Charlie: ... you okay?

Charlie: damn, i love touching your ass while you ride me, but the idea of you on top of me while i do nothing... fuck. now we're getting ties for sure

Charlie: so do you, babe. but that's how i feel, sometimes i think of who i was in the past and i surely didn't deserve you then.

Charlie: that means i did something well

Raquel: so that's all it took? The thought of me riding you to be convinced? Maybe I should just find things to tie you with and have my way with you tonight.

Raquel: who you were in the past wasn't some awful person. You just weren't sure of what you wanted and that's fine. And even if you think you didn't deserve me then you still had me. You always did.

Raquel: you're not the only one who did something right. You are so much more than I could have dreamed of. Someone who loves me as much as you do makes me the luckiest person in the world.

Charlie: i was already convinced when i imagined your wrists tied together and me fucking you hard, but that is also a very convincing argument

Charlie: let's see what you have, i'm sure you'll find something

Charlie: i wasn't a bad person, but i was pretty much a fuckboy who got around a lot and i'm sure that you didn't want a fuckboy around you

Charlie: when did we become so cheesy?

Raquel: add a blindfold to that and I'm totally in.

Raquel: either I find something or looks like I'll have to run into some department store and get what I want.

Raquel: you did sleep around a lot and maybe I didn't like that and it's why I tried fighting off how much I liked you but we would have still been friends and I would have had you around then.

Raquel: you'll always been this cheesy so I don't know what you're talking about lol.

Charlie: i'm thinking of something we could do and i really want to do it

Charlie: you're a resourceful woman, but i hope you read something about bondage, what to use and what not

Charlie: i guess you're right.

Charlie: i'm pretty sure i wasn't cheesy before dating you and you were already cheesy back then

Raquel: well you can't just tell me you want to try something and then not tell me. Spill.

Raquel: don't worry. I won't try anything crazy and I definitely would never hurt you.

Raquel: i just think I'm glad that we didn't just stay friends.

Raquel: lies. i don't accept that.

Charlie: i'm thinking of getting you naked, blindfold you and then have my fun with an ice cube. i think you'll even thank me for it

Charlie: that's good to know, thank you for not hurting me while we do kinky shit in the future

Charlie: me too. things wouldn't be as great as they are for us now

Charlie: you're the lying one, i wasn't cheesy. i had a way with words to flirt with girls but i wasn't cheesy

Raquel: don't I always thank you? Or at least reciporicate.

Raquel: well I doubt we need to go as far as you know making a safe word or something but I think I know when I'm pleasing my man.

Raquel: so you'd go through it all over again? The ups and the downs? Everything?

Raquel: you can be a flirt and still be cheesy, but maybe you're right we have gotten overly affectionate. Maybe we're just in our "honeymoon" phase.

Charlie: you do in the best way possible and i fucking love it

Charlie: yeah, it's not like we're doing hardcore BDSM and i'd tell you if it was too much anyways, but yeah.

Charlie: well, we've been through too much and there's a long way ahead of us, but yeah, i would.

Charlie: see? i told you i wasn't cheesy before you. you made me a bit cheesy

Raquel: now I'm curious to know which it "the best way possible"

Raquel: yeah we just have a really healthy and active sex life. We're just like light bdsm. I just trust you enough to tie me up and fuck me until you cum inside me.

Raquel: long way ahead of us? Are you planning hurdles for us?

Raquel: you're the nacho chip underneath the really cheesy nacho. You got second hand cheese.

Charlie: with more sex, of course

Charlie: a very active sex life, i may add.

Charlie: no, i meant that if we're dating, something has to happen, right? especially if this is meant to be a long-term relationship

Charlie: okay, we went from being cheesy to talk about nachos in a minute, wtf

Raquel: of course how could I have thought it could be anything else.

Raquel: well we're both young and consenting and incredibly hot. I don't think anyone would be surprised to know just how healthy our sex life is.

Raquel: I guess, but I think things are pretty great right now and that maybe we shouldn't rock the boat for a bit with any progression. This is meant to be long term. There's no giving up on this.

Raquel: I like to keep you on your toes baby, and we said I was the nacho cheesy one before so really this should come to no surprise.

Charlie: neighbors are more than aware of that. they probably hate how loud we are but i don't care

Charlie: yeah, we're in a good place and hopefully things will stay like that for a while.

Charlie: i'm not surprised and i'm hungry now. i want nachos

Raquel: well good because it's not like I'm your neighbor's biggest fan either.

Raquel: I just have to keep telling myself to.not screw it up

Raquel: do you want me to pick some up on my way home?

Charlie: i know, and as the person who lives at the other side of the wall, she fucking knows how loud we are

Charlie: hopefully none of us will. i don't want to screw it up either

Charlie: Mexican?

Raquel: I don't even want to talk about her. It's like saying beetlejuice. If I mention her again chances are I'll run into her later today.

Raquel: can we just promise that we won't walk on eggshells around each other? Besides, your track record in this relationship isn't as bad as mine so odds aren't in my favor.

Raquel: well I definitely don't just want chips with cheese and I went to the gym so I am just going to have some of yours.

Charlie: okay, let's not talk about her. but i doubt you run into her because you mentioned her, babe

Charlie: maybe, but that doesn't mean i could still screw it, who knows? but yeah, i can promise that

Charlie: and will i have to watch you not eat properly and get all the energy for possible fun afterwards? not in my house.

Raquel: well it's either because I mention her or because life is teaching me patience and tolerance the hard way.

Raquel: There aren't too many things that can really make you mess up so bad for me not to forgive you.

Raquel: I will have energy. You can't just make up rules now.

Charlie: well, if it happens remember i'm dating you and try to not punch her

Charlie: yeah, but still. let's hope i don't do any of them

Charlie: my house, my rules. no kale for dinner. please?

Raquel: violence doesnt solve anything. I don't even think I know how to punch someone.

Raquel: I'd like to think you have self-control and know that any of the things I'm thinking of would hurt me and us more than anything.

Raquel: I need to see a copy of these rules before I agree to the terms and conditions. NOT ALL OF MY SALADS ARE KALE.

Charlie: i didn't peg you as someone who could punch someone anyways.

Charlie: i have. i like to think i can control myself

Charlie: do you want me to write them so you can see and then sign them?

Charlie: okay, bring your salad but you're eating mex with me.

Raquel: You make me sound like a chihuahua that's all bark and no bite and even then my bark must not be that scary

Raquel: yep I want to see them and I won't just click a box like I do on every other terms and conditions thing.

Raquel: just a few chips but not a bunch. I'm not losing all the work I put in at the gym.

Charlie: you're prettier than a chihuahua, babe

Charlie: we can redact them together later and make copies.

Charlie: that's enough for me. i just really want you to eat something that isn't green for once and look happy while eating it

Raquel: well I hope I am. Otherwise I really wouldn't know what you're doing with me.

Raquel: shouldn't you be doing that on your own? It is your apartment.

Raquel: I never said I don't like my salads. But I think you worrying about my eating habits is cute.

Charlie: i would be with you if you were like a chihuahua, but it doesn't hurt that you're prettier and hotter than one

Charlie: we can always make a contract on foods whenever we're at the other's place... sort of.

Charlie: i don't want you to think you need to control what you eat around me. i don't think it'll do you harm either if it's not in excess.

Raquel: chihuahuas are annoying on top of not being cute. Whatever Paris hilton sees in them I don't. Also that was a little cheesy. you pretty much just admitted that you'd be with me no matter what I looked like.

Raquel: sort of?

Raquel: Babe, I don't think that. I just have liked how my body has changed and I never thought that I need to control my eating habits around you or anyone. Is that what you think Nathan did???

Charlie: that was what i was trying to say. you're welcome

Charlie: a sort of contract, i mean

Charlie: i wasn't thinking about your ex at all until now

Raquel: well that doesn't go the same for you. I am vain like that.

Raquel: I'm kidding. I don't think there's any way I could not be with you.

Raquel: okay we can do that.

Raquel: okay.

Charlie: awww, that's cheesy too.

Charlie: let's say you can't bring here anything that includes kale and then i can't eat something at your place, for example.

Charlie: okay what? he wasn't doing that, right?

Raquel: still don't regret it.

Raquel: so you'r just going to outright ban my kale? What if I just get a smoothie and it happens to have kale in it?

Raquel: No. Do you think I would be with someone like that? Nathan was a good guy.

Charlie: i know you don't

Charlie: in that case you can, since it's in a drink

Charlie: no, i don't think so. if someone made you do that they're idiots

Raquel: okay so what are my kale's requirements? It seems like you have a deep rooted vendetta against it.

Raquel: I wouldn't just do something just because the person I was dating asked me to.

Charlie: not a vendetta, but i don't really like it. we'll talk about it while redacting this

Charlie: good, because i would punch that person if they made you do that. i don't really want you to do or stop doing something just because someone tells you to do it

Raquel: still sounds like a vendetta. What did my kale ever do to you?

Raquel: you'd punch that person? And that wouldn't solve much. Punching someone is never the answer.

Charlie: i don't know, but i don't like it.

Charlie: i mean, i could but i wouldn't really do it, i would... just think about punching them.

Raquel: okay I won't have you eat anything you don't want to but I just think it's funny how you're against the one thing I eat a lot of now.

Raquel: my big strong man. I think it's cute when you get a bit protective.

Charlie: now i feel bad for banning kale at my place

Charlie: well, i know my girl can take care of herself, but i can't help it, babe

Raquel: well don't feel too bad. I won't miss it that much.

Raquel: as sexy as it is that you want to protect me, you're right that I can protect myself even if I don't know how to throw a punch. Besides I would never want to put you in a situation where you could ever get hurt.

Charlie: right now, i'm trying to imagine how would it be if you knew how to throw a punch

Charlie: awwww, babe.

Charlie: what if we took boxing lessons together? just to teach you how to throw a punch

Raquel: Boxing lessons????

Raquel: I don't know. I just wouldn't know why I would need to throw a punch.

Raquel: but are you sure you can keep up with me in the gym in general? And don't give me the whole I work out too thing because I think i still work out more than you do.

Charlie: i don't know, i think it's always good to know how to throw one, just in case

Charlie: babe, please. of course i can keep up with you, and i think i work out as much as you do, only that i don't do it at a gym.

Raquel: just in case Im attacked or something??? I'm always in well lit areas, I hardly travel alone at night, I have a boyfriend with the muscles of a greek statue, and I like to think I don't need to prepare for something I doubt is going to happen to me.

Raquel: that's a whole lot of talk, I want to see action.

Charlie: okay okay. i wouldn't go to the greek statue level, but i'm flattered you think that

Charlie: is that a yes to boxing lessons or are you just challenging me?

Raquel: I said what I said. I'm not taking it back.

Raquel: oh I am totally challenging you and maybe to boxing lessons.

Charlie: oh no, don't take it back. i like your confidence and i liked what you said about me, so don't do it

Charlie: bring it on, babe. let's see who can keep up with who.

Raquel: well good because I wasn't going to

Raquel: challenge accepted. Let's see if I can test your endurance even more than I already do.

Charlie: i have stamina, so it'll be easy. i can last, and i'm not only talking about sex

Raquel: Of course you aren't. I don't doubt you in the bedroom but in the gym is where I'm going to have you beat.

Charlie: oh really? do you want to make things more interesting?

Raquel: yes really. Let's make things interesting then. What are you willing to wager?

Charlie: except money and my apartment, i'm willing to bet anything, included anything sex related

Raquel: I don't want your money or your apartment. I have my own thank you. Okay if I win you have to take me out on the cheesiest and slightly romantic date that could end in sex if you're lucky. And if you win which is highly unlikely you can get whatever you want.

Charlie: the cheesiest date ever. fuck, that's tough for me.

Charlie: whatever i want? does that include trying out a new sex position?

Charlie: i'll do my best to not lose the bet then

Raquel: you can always try a new position. You're not making for a very interesting wager. You're so going to lose.

Charlie: i could always come up with something more interesting, like

Charlie: eat a whole pizza with me or something. i'll probably come up with something better once you lose.

Raquel: ULTERIOR MOTIVE TO MAKE ME GAIN WEIGHT. THIS IS SABOTAGE.

Charlie: I'LL THINK OF SOMETHING NON-SEX OR FOOD RELATED

Charlie: just because i love you and i don't want to be that mean

Raquel: OKAY.

Raquel: I love you too.

Charlie: okay, bring your cute ass over here and bring mexican for dinner.