#he better get an episode where the narrative shows him how toxic he's been too otherwise the writers are gonna start to piss me off fr

[deliciouscollectorcrusadestuff]

Looking back at things, jax might be a character that might be the inverse character of the series, it's just something that come up to me because of a tweet shitposting saying they be mad if they don't see Jax cry. Another thing for this quick random theory is for was from Dexter, (yes that old show that had over 5 season and is having two continuation after it's ending) of that people with mental illness who aren't given proper help would become they way they are if they aren't given the chance.

With the way things are going with each tadc episode, I don't think that's possible and hear me out on this.

I feel like each episode’s issue applies to Jax, except he doesn’t get the benefit of the moral like pomni or the focus character does.

Jax doesn’t go to kaufmo’s funeral despite the moral of that episode being that there’s people that will care even after you’re gone. Kinger tells pomni to hold on to the people close to you, but the cast will tie up Jax and shove him to the side on the adventure.

And the moral for gangle being to not hold a fake mask for too long still applies to Jax as he holds his own version of his mask throughout the whole episode until the end.

Seeing how part of Jax Character lies within toxic masculinity and his treatment of others and how that effected his mental state, I don't think he'll be crying due to how mental state work, if one tells them selves that they are a monster for over years and that been supported by that narrative by other people.

It's going to change people, they are going to have a different psychological then what people consider to be normal.

In order for Jax to continue to changing for the better, not only does he have to revalute his morals and come to that said conclusion but depending on that person, they continue trying to fight off who they once were by internal/external means cause people are a bundle of patterns.

Seeing how there's not consequences in the digital world and how most moral thing a person can do is by external means, Jax is being rewarded by being an ass, the gang are willing to lift each other up but when it comes to Jax, it's out of the window.

I'm not saying that the rest of the episode that Jax would still continue to be an ass, gooseworx statement of him getting worse isn't to say that he's being a plain Disney villian. In the setting of the circus. It's simply not that black and white. Instead what we are seeing as Jax mental well being is being torn down again and again and with no positive help and with a group of people who are in a similar situation as him that also happens to hates him. He's only going to get worse.

This is where I feel like pomni would come in, or I maybe wrong.

This theory came from how Dexter father assumed the worse out of him and instead of treating Dexter PTSD the right way that he'll become a working member of society, refusing to see that light. He shaped Dexter to be a killer.

Any thought? I know it feels crack but can you see where I'm getting at?

There's something that need fixing but can you get where I'm coming from?

[spacedhuh]

my favorite hypocrite avian (he's trying his best but the disney princess urge to burst into song is too strong)

[mochasucculent]

I'm rewatching Arcane, and after my third time seeing season 1 I had a hot new reading on Viktor's scenes in episodes 6, 7, and 8.

Like a lot of other people, I felt it was weird and unsavory that Viktor - very close to death with a disease that affects his lungs - suddenly starts experimenting on his disabled leg. Those two things have nothing in common, save for the fact that the cause of both might have been the toxic fumes of the undercity, which could have resulted in Viktor being born disabled if his parents were also subject to those conditions.

So why does Viktor try to "fix" his leg when his main goal is to utilize the Hexcore to prolong and improve living conditions before he's gone?

Viktor in acts 2 and 3 is motivated to save himself long enough to make a difference in the world. Even though Hextech is revolutionary for Piltover, it hasn't reached who Viktor wanted to help this whole time, the disenfranchised in the undercity. In his mind, he hasn't done enough to change the world for the better, and he will be gone before he has the chance to do so.

After realizing the Hexcore responded to organic matter when it absorbed Viktor's blood, he experiments with plants, only to find that they wither and die soon after the Hexcore makes them grow.

This causes him to visit Singed once again for anything that could help him figure out how to use the Hexcore for magic that could save lives, one last shot at accomplishing his dreams.

Viktor parted ways with with him as a child upon seeing that Singed was willing to hurt Rio, his salamander test subject, in order to prolong her life. Viktor didn't understand that cost before, but he does now, being in the same position as Singed and Rio simultaneously, both the scientist trying to make a breakthrough and the subject he needs to save in order to do so.

Like Rio, Viktor is not his own end goal to his scientific pursuits. Singed is trying to save his daughter, Viktor is trying to help his people. He's his own means to an end, and is now willing to pay the cost of getting there.

Singed gives Viktor a variant of Shimmer to experiment with, the idea being that it will stabilize an organism while the Hexcore's magic affects it, hopefully allowing it to survive through the aggressive and sudden healing process.

Viktor injects the Shimmer into his leg, as well as carving runes into both his brace and thigh to channel the magic towards there before he offers the Hexcore his blood. It does Something to his leg which we don't see till the following episode.

The new reading I have of this scene is that the reason Viktor chose his leg specifically is not because he was trying to "fix" it, but because:

-He's not willing to put others' lives at risk and knows he's not long for this world, so the only test subject he's willing to use is himself

-He knows the organic matter he tests the Hexcore on might die

-Viktor's leg is a part of his body he's willing to lose if things go wrong and it rejects the transmutation (he also knows that he could just fully die then and there too and is willing to take that risk)

Obviously, the scenes involving Viktor's experimentation center his physical disabilities (shots of his back brace, the focus on his leg) and equate them with the disease that is literally killing him. The narrative lens shows us that Viktor "curing" himself begins with his disability, which sucks.

So while the boat scene undoubtedly is written to be "triumphant" because Viktor's leg is no longer disabled (shown by him dropping his crutch, the swelling music, the parallel to the scene where a child Viktor can't keep up with his toy boat), a different reading is that it's another experiment to him.

Viktor is stress testing the organic matter he infused with magic, and the scene is triumphant because he's realized his leg isn't deteriorating or weakening - it holds up. The mutation of the magic in his leg survived. It's a sign that maybe he can use the Hexcore on the rest of his body, keep himself alive long enough to do what he's always wanted to do: leave a legacy that changes the world for the better.

To me that's a much more in-character perspective for Viktor in these scenes than what is being said narratively through directing, framing, music, etc. Previously, Viktor had never expressed distaste for his disability as an adult, only commenting on it as a part of why he was isolated socially from Piltover. To me, him testing the Hexcore on his leg is merely an indifference to its current state, rather than a preference to have it changed. I don't even necessarily think it'd be a bad thing if Viktor did outright say "I would like to not be disabled", because I'm sure many other disabled people feel that way from time to time, but season 1 really does a poor job of pushing that framing of "curing" disability onto a character that did not express those perspectives himself at this point.

It gives off a big ol' "aw, poor Viktor, not only is he dying because of the political landscape that leaves disenfranchised people to suffer preventable diseases, but he's got a disabled leg too!" One of those things is much more problematic than the other lol.

Season 2 definitely hurtles Viktor very quickly into the Machine Herald perspective in which he thinks humans must evolve past ANY limitations of their original bodies, but to me season 1 Viktor just doesn't feel that way about himself. His primary concern has always been rooted in how to improve the lives of his people permanently, and it's only when he's actively dying that his secondary goal is to live long enough to see that happen.

It's something he drops completely after his experimentation results in Sky's death. He's immediately spiteful of the Hexcore and tries to destroy it - and himself.

Viktor now accepts that he will die before he's able to change the world the way he wanted, and hides the fact that he fucked with his body from everyone as he awaits his demise. "Fixing" his leg is not something he celebrates in and of itself, it's now only a reminder that the pursuit of his dream resulted in someone else's death.

The narrative does well in season 2 to frame Viktor's Glorious Evolution as a Bad Thing at least, and Jayce's speech at the end about Viktor never being broken is extremely valuable and important, but it's just weird to see him say this:

Cause to me now, that ain't what Viktor was trying to do at all! The writers may have retconned that to be the case, which is fine, whatever, but season 1 in isolation does not support that idea to me after this rewatch.

Overall, I think Arcane can have confusing directing sometimes that focuses on evoking feelings and themes rather than the richness of its characters, their dynamics, and the world they inhabit - to the detriment of all the above. In season 2, this resulted in a lot of scenes that felt emotionally unearned or muddy to me, like pretty much everything with Jinx, Vi, and Vander together rip.

It's for this same reason that I think it took me so long to really come to this reading of Viktor's season 1 scenes, because the directing bias REALLY wants to make you feel sorrow and hope alongside Viktor, even though it means he'll seem to randomly start equating his disabled leg to his illness. It just felt like a weird disparity to me until I watched these episodes again and was like "wait" lol.

Anyway peace and love on planet Earth I cannot stop thinking about Viktor Arcane

[crooked-wasteland]

I think what annoys me so much about the way the show blasts Blitzo for being a cold and unromantic partner is that it’s a perfect example of ignoring worldbuilding to make a character look worse.

By human standards, Blitzo abandoning someone when they tell them that they love him is pretty cowardly and understandably upsetting. But in Hell standards? Verosika should’ve fucking known he’d run away because Hell seems to look down heavily at the concept of love. This is like knowing that it’s taboo to kiss and then getting mad at a character for not kissing you. You can’t blame someone for being adjusted to what society expects of you. Verosika can still be hurt but it’s genuinely insane how much she clings on to this hate like he did a crime.

And the fact that we just skip over seeing their relationship is also infuriating because I get the feeling that Viv was both not interested in actually showing us what Verosika was like and also afraid to make her do anything that feels more in line with her character which is act angsty and spiteful

I've had a thought about Verosika. From the we've seen this season, the writers have actually listened to and addressed criticism for the show. The Ghostfuckers leaks show an overhaul of the original story, the fact that episodes got shifted around at the start of the series, the blatant un-writing of the assassination plot, and the fact that Unhappy Campers was the only pre-special episode to not be in the season 2 trailer (most likely because it was still in the early stages of animation due to massive rewrites to incorporate more Millie) are all evidence to this. It's obvious the crew is not happy about it, but they are listening.

With that in mind, the show has repeatedly been accused of extremely sexist writing in favor of the male cast. As such, it's not surprising to see the pivot more towards "humanizing" the female characters in specific. I remember seeing a lot of comments about how they wouldn't forgive the show if they made another female character irredeemably cruel and brainless following The Circus, and even louder after Western Energy.

What fans had wanted was a complicated or even toxic dynamic where both characters weren't perfect, but still held Blitz accountable for his actions, fairly. What they got was the cheapest, laziest writing I've ever seen. Not only does it not make sense in regards to the established world building of Hell's attitude towards love, it still makes no sense for Blitz to run away just because Verosika said she loved him, only to then adopt a child. He explicitly goes to the pound looking for a pup, pivoting to taking in Loona out of pity. It's like saying marriage is too much of a commitment, but still having kids.

Instead, Medrano overcorrected to pander to critics the same way she panders to her fans. Verosika is not an irredeemably cruel and stupid, spiteful woman. She's a perfect victim actually. Not only is her only crime falling in love, but the relationship ended so fast and sudden that she didn't have any time to do anything.

All these choices feel not only deliberate, but resentful in how little care went into the writing. The most drastic overhaul being to Ghostfuckers where the entire narrative trimmed down and immensely reworked already existing elements into the script. It goes to show the level of improvement possible to an idea when given better direction, but it also shows the limitations of not having actual writers on the team.

Ghostfuckers does an amateur's best and comes out generally okay, but still suffers from over reliance on tropes without narrative substance. It's the genuine best that can be done with this team. And unfortunately that's still not good enough.

[babacontainsmultitudes]

Great teen talk overall, but honestly I was particularly interested in what Matt had to say about where Lincoln is at right now (and that we might get a better glimpse into this next episode? Which has me both nervous and excited but I'm trying not to think about it *too* much cause I'm already super nervous about how things are gonna pan out for the twins next episode).

It all tracks- Lincoln's increasingly nihilistic view of the world impeding on his ability to feel much of anything but nevertheless caring about how *his friends* are feeling and what they want. Being too deep in a dissociative state to process his own grief (and everything else) but caring that *Normal* is sad and doing what he can to help him.

I think Lincoln is a funny and incredibly fascinating character because if you look at his words, honestly no one can deliver a blow like Lincoln- a trademark of his brutal honesty, and in most stark contrast to Normal's "toxic positivity", neither being inherently better or worse than the other just inverted, and reflective of different values (something something cheerkicks is doomed by the narrative they should kiss etc. etc. not what the post is about). Conversely, if you look at Lincoln's actions (and Lincoln is, at his heart, an action-oriented character), truly nobody is putting their ass on the line for the people around them quite like Linc is. I've stated on several occasions that I believe Lincoln is the most selfless of the teens, and I stand by this, but this is a virtue as much as it as a flaw. It's heroic, to put yourself in a line of fire to save your friend's dad, or impale your leg on a candy cane twice to get an anchor, or hug your friend to show them you care even if it literally winds up killing you- but it also reflects self-preservation instincts that somehow manage to be even weaker than those of the guy who tried to throw himself out of a building thinking that a parachute would save him (god I love Taylor).

Lincoln cares immensely about his friends (despite his growing numbness to the world around him), but dangerously little about himself and what becomes of his own life. As a less dire example, "Apollo Four Teens" acts as a great demonstration of how Lincoln will stretch himself thin for everyone around him until there's nothing left, but forgets in the process to stop and register his own emotions and tend to his own needs. Combine this with Lincoln's perpetual "keep calm and roll with the punches" attitude towards the nonstop bullshit the teens have gone through over the course of the season, including an extensive list of unresolved issues related to Grant (which by now I've outlined fairly thoroughly), and you have a serious recipe for disaster. Characters like Normal and Scary are, relatively speaking, pretty obvious and emotive with respect to their pain, even when they are trying not to be. This is good, since it makes it easier for other characters to recognize that they need help in the first place and try to look out for them (they may not always know how to do so correctly, but the intent is there). Lincoln, in contrast, shuts down and becomes less emotive in response to his own pain (in a manner that is somewhat similar to Darryl, more similar to Glenn, and of course most similar to Grant, but ultimately different from all of them), silently building his walls up higher and higher but being no safer for it. It is partially for this reason that other characters very rarely think to check in on Linc and see how he's doing (Taylor to his credit tried after the titanic episode, but that got interrupted, and Grant does also try but- much like his own dad with him- fails to meet his son halfway in being honest and vulnerable and hence fails to make any progress), leaving him to mostly suffer in silence perhaps without even truly realizing it himself.

I guess the gist of what I'm saying is, Lincoln is in deep water, all of this has been a long time coming, and if nobody does anything about it soon... (Metaphorically-speaking of course-) that boy is going to drown.

[crehador]

brother crab's winter 2024 parting thoughts: dog signal

alright well yysy it's not much to look at, the animation/art style isn't exactly "modern" or exceptional (though personally i was quite charmed by it)

that aside, this was overall a really pleasant surprise to me!

tl;dr: fun cast with some surprisingly compelling and deep(ish) backstories, would recommend but with the disclaimers that a) it's episodic and b) there's quite a lot of animal mistreatment since each episode is about helping a dog whose person isn't treating it right (most if not all the cases have hopeful endings, but some parts may be hard to watch)

also niwa and samura have the most HILARIOUSLY classic toxic yaoi situationship without any of the fun parts (the actual yaoi), more on that later lmao

full review:

the series is for the most part episodic, with each episode dealing with a dog owner who comes to a certain dog trainer for help. i'm a fan of a good episodic series, even when the episodes can be hit or miss, so the structure was very enjoyable for me

the stories of the main cast were surprisingly compelling, too. it seemed like it would be just a very silly show—what with it starting with a guy (cv knb murasakibara) walking another guy (cv knb kuroko) around on a leash in public for two hours—but the character backstories that were revealed throughout the series did actually feel delightfully nuanced to me

(for example "yeah that old man did hit a dog and that's not great but the dog in question was biting the shit out of the kid he sees as a son so it's not... not understandable that he would react that way and while i'm not saying he should be proud of hitting a dog i guess i am saying it does suck for him that son guy hated him and went no contact for years for it")

one of my favorite episodes, ironically, barely involved the main cast at all. most of the episodes deal with this dog training business training dogs (shock!) but in this one episode, fairly late in the series, the owner was a struggling mangaka suffering from immense social anxiety, whose only friend was his dog who one day suddenly loses his hearing

that's such a tough thing that you really wouldn't explain anyone to know how to handle on their own without training. the mangaka even runs into the mc (trainee dog trainer) early in the episode and receives a business card for the dog training shop, but instead of taking his dog in, he does his best on his own to develop ways to communicate with his newly deaf dog

and it works! not only does he find a way to keep his dog comfortable with him, his efforts make him less concerned with what other people think of him as well. he managed to go to the dog training shop in the end, to see if there's anything he could be doing better for his dog, only to be told that they can't do anything for him—because he's already done everything right

(in establishing a way to communicate with his deaf dog, that is. there are other issues he gets chewed out for, which i really liked and found realistic)

i feel like it was just such a well-timed episode as a narrative device, because it shows that while the main dog trainer is great (the trainee dog trainer mc practically worships him) it's not that everyone in the world is helpless without him

but anyway

REGARDING THE SITUATIONSHIP WHAT THE FUCK LMAO first of all i love it

samura has just been dumped by an extremely shitty girlfriend when he meets niwa, while out walking the dog (or attempting to walk the dog) said shitty girlfriend dumped on him

he's doing a terrifically bad job, to the point where niwa (pro dog trainer) can't bear to watch. so what does he do well of course he has to reeducate samura by... putting him on a leash and walking him around the park, in public, for two hours. to show him just how wrong he's treating his dog

samura somehow gets a job out of this and they start working together. at one point he reveals he is GOING TO THE SALON and GETTING HIS HAIR PERMED so that it is curly because niwa has a poodle and seems to like curly hair (???)

jump cut to the final episode and we're finding out samura's tragic lore—parentified by a narcissistic mom, down with too much filial piety disease. when samura finally decides he's no longer sending money back home, his mom comes to the dog training shop to be like "sir uwu you have to give my son a raise so he can keep sending money home uwu he's such a good hard-working boy please pay him what he's worth"

and niwa is straight up like "actually he sucks and you suck get the fuck out of my shop" AND THEN LATER IN THE EPISODE samura's mom calls him (has been calling him repeatedly since meeting his freak of a boss) and NIWA ANSWERS THE PHONE and while she's complaining about the money situation and the freak boss (niwa) he basically tells her "you still suck and your son still sucks but i'm keeping him, fuck off"

like my god?? that woman is going to go away thinking her son has gotten into an extremely abusive relationship with his boss. i mean fuck her entirely, she does suck, but that is very much Not the situation (even though it does Very Much appear to be the situation)

anyway. ultimately this one lands in the :) category for me, originally picked it up for the cast (kuroko and mukkun and also KENN) and didn't have very high expectations but am thrilled to be pleasantly surprised

[mangora]

Oh also here’s my notes from reading TTI chapters prologue through four hehe I don’t remember what any of these mean:

Prologue:

•Oh the baby teeth detail I love that

•He would drink white chocolate mochas

•I genuinely like that the show isn’t scripted but is still treated like a show, like that’s a nice touch

•Peter! :)

•I feel you sha-mod

•They’re holding hands thats so wholesome

•McLovin and Micheal beef?

•QUIRKED UP WHITE BOY

•I already like Joner and Jules

•AUSTIN!!

•Courtney and Patrick narrative foils?

•Scary is so silly

•Frollo stepping away from the women is killing me

•Is Kitty okay. Girl are you okay get out of the water!!

•Mal and Courtney beef???

•Bonnie 👍

•Scruffy is just like me fr

•I like Ass but their name being Ass is giving me psychic damage

•Max is already going to be babygirl I can tell

•Alex jumpscare

•Trans Staci? Just spitballing here

•O and Kelly friends? Please?

•Austin got fucking blown away??

•Caesar has this fruity little swagger about him that I love

•McLovin’s all alone :(

•Peter my beloved

•Do possums lay eggs?

Overall: Really enjoyed this, I think it’s a really good introduction to the characters, I’m super excited to learn more about them and the writing is really good!!

Chapter 1:

•I do not trust Mal what is she doing

•Is McLovin okay

•Fren?? Buddy?? Are you good??

•Get his ass Patrick

•Austin don’t do that

•I love Joner so much dude

•Julia my beloved

•Bibble real??

•The Staci bit is genuinely so funny

•Max is so toxic this is great

•If anything bad happens between Michael and Joner I will lose it

•Thinking abt an Ass and Patrick alliance

•Courtney deserves better man

•Okay Max is actually kind of slaying rn

•Max and Julia are already giving me mlm and wlw hostility energy

•Did he just call him a Square

•Why wasn’t Patrick on the chopping block he’s such a bitch lol

•Nooo I liked Fren :(

Overall: Another great chapter, I think the dynamic developing between Courtney, Mal, and Ass is super interesting! I’m also excited to see where Max and Julia’s characters go

Chapter 2:

•Max is such a hater

•Mal and Ass moment

•Bonnie and Caesar solidarity

•The fucking high five that’s so good

•The red face on Sha-Mod’s cutout too god holy shit I love this

•I’m a Patrick lover first

•I want breadsticks too

•Never change Mal

•McLovin and Courtney talking is healing me

•Wait Austin and Kelly are kind of cute together

•Get his ass Joner

•Oh that’s so cute

•Them turning to Max 💀

•Patrick is a Madonna enjoyers holy shit

•I like this alliance. I really like this alliance dude /gen

•I’m punching the floor I love Joner so much

•Dude what the fuck happened between Mal and Courtney and should I be afraid

•NOT LEVITICUS 18:22

•How have they been up for 50 hours what the hell

•Nooo Joner

•HE JUST CALLED HIM GAY??

•This is so funny oh my god

•YO THATS FUCKING AWESOME

•I really like Caesar now dude thats a choice move

•He’s sleeping on Bonnie’s shoulder 🥺

•NO

•NO WHAT THE FUCK WHAT THE FUCK WHAT THE FUCK

•JONER?? OVER FROLLO????

•I’m going insane I’m gonna spit I’m gonna throw up I’m gonna cry

•JONER??????

Overall: The relationships and dialogue in this episode were super fun, I felt like we got to know a lot of the characters better. Joner leaving made me incredibly sad but I think that just reflects how well built-up and likable his character was in a short amount of time

Chapter 3:

•Caesar :)

•Patrick is so real

•Tfw your teammate gives you candy because you lost a lawsuit??

•Kitty is such a Cryptid I love them

•Whoever hit Frollo ily

•GET IT PATRICK

•Mal is so cool??

•How is Staci so good at this what the fuckkk

•Bonnie lore!

•Fujoshis are serving cunt in this challenge

•Peter’s autistic eyes

•Is Mal trying to sabotage them?

•”Prove my worth” Oh Peter :(

•KELLY YOU’RE GOING TO KILL THEM

•Is throwing from the ceiling legal

•YOOO SCARY IS SLAYING THATS SO NEAT

•Poor Peter :(

•Yo that is a big ass alliance also Kelly and Austin are so cute

•Staci and Scary friendship!

Overall: Another banger episode, Mal especially was super interesting, I have no idea what her intention was but regardless sabotage is always interesting. Also the Kelaustin(?) is fire and all the characters are just really cool and fun

Chapter 4:

•Scruffy is like Millie and I mean that in a very good way

•Don’t be a hater Court

•”Intelligence is always impressive” yea ok Max just kiss them already

•”Under 30 minutes” dude

•Patrick and Kitty is making my brain Work

•GET IT MCLOVIN

•GET IT SCRUFFY dude that’s insane

•Nooo Patrick!! I liked him :(

Overall: Dude I love this chapter so much, Courtney and McLovin’s friendship and the mounting issues with Mal are both so good. Also Scruffy’s spelling skills, mwah, god tier detail and win. I’m sad Patrick’s gone, he was my babygirl, but him finding Kitty of all people to be impressive and then losing because of it was like surprisingly cute and tragic? Autistic alpha male tsundere x full-on cryptid is a god tier dynamic that I’ve never considered before. I want good things for them

[shysublimecoffee]

Before I begin, I want to make it clear that this discussion isn’t meant to be an attack. My words might come across as strong, but I don’t intend to criticize you personally or make you feel bad, especially to the Original Poster.

There's something to be said about how some fans, particularly those who criticize Adrien, go to great lengths to scrutinize every interaction he has, nitpicking and criticizing him for not perfectly aligning with their expectations. Adrien is genuinely one of the kindest male leads, yet people still find reasons to have issues with him. Anyone who claims that Adrien lacks empathy either hasn't watched the show closely or is twisting his character to fit a negative narrative. Take the "high road" speech regarding Lila, for instance—a stance I actually agree with. He saw right through Lila's motives, understood the situation, and yet the "Chameleon salt" was ridiculous. And don’t get me started on the fanfiction—people will write an entire saga based on one episode vilifying him that wasn’t even that bad or serious, turning other male characters into her "prince charming" like some overblown male fantasy.

It's wild because if you're pointing fingers at someone lacking empathy, it should be the main lead and heroine. If you think Adrien is the one lacking empathy, I strongly disagree. This is the same character who gave Marinette the confidence to become Ladybug, constantly supported her, and was always there for her. In contrast, Marinette, who has been a poor partner and kept secrets from Chat Noir, seems to struggle with empathy. I think Marinette relates to people in a "self-absorbed" way, meaning she can only understand a situation if she somehow makes herself part of it. This causes her to approach issues from a skewed perspective and she's very controlling, where the actual problem doesn’t get properly addressed. It’s a compelling character flaw that, in my opinion, hasn’t been fully fleshed out in the show and never will because of "protagonist-centered morality."

If Marinette were as empathetic as some claim, what about her decisions in "Ephemeral" and teaming up with Luka behind Chat Noir’s back? Or how she tries to reconcile Chloe and her toxic mother? If Marinette had true empathy, she'd understand these situations better, but it seems like she’s avoiding confronting the possibilities when it comes to do for anything with Chat Noir even simple communication or that the world is more shades of gray than in black and white that not everyone has good parents. She’s almost become a second but kinder Gabriel. Whenever CN dares to show emotions , she can’t handle it. But when he’s a doctile people-pleaser, suppressing his own submission for hers, he becomes the ideal partner she wants to keep.

Adrien, a manipulator or gas-lighter? Why on earth are you attaching such heavy, damaging labels to someone who is clearly a victim? It’s disgraceful, honestly, that anyone would even have the audacity to do so. If you’ve watched the show or even Season 5, you’d know those terms apply to Gabriel Agreste, not Adrien. And let’s not pretend Marinette, Felix, Kagami, or Nathalie are completely innocent either. Adrien’s autonomy has been ripped from him, his life controlled and manipulated, and yet people have the nerve to paint/cast him as the villain?

It’s strange, too, because Chat Noir is the heart of this operation while Ladybug is more of the brain. And if you’ve been paying attention, you’ll notice that Adrien has increasingly taken on the role of the heroine in later seasons. Remember It's Adrien wearing the dress in this relationship and being saved by Knight Marinette. The dynamic has shifted , and this whole "lack of empathy" argument falls flat when you realize it's a role reversal of what we usually get from other shows happening here. Yes, Adrien has flaws, but what’s truly infuriating is how those flaws are constantly suppressed, twisted, or outright ignored to cater to Marinette. It’s as if the entire fandom—and even Astruc and the writers—have collectively agreed that Adrien exists solely to serve her narrative, with his own struggles and complexities swept under the rug.

I’m going out on a limb here, but maybe some of you are projecting way too much onto Marinette—like she’s your self-insert. It’s insane how, just like in the show, Adrien’s tiny faults are blown out of proportion, scrutinized to hell and back by the audience, while Ladybug’s flaws are conveniently overlooked. Why? It’s almost as if you’re Gabriel, demanding Adrien be the perfect male lead, without a single flaw. He may be the designated love interest, but he’s a character in his own right, with his own struggles—struggles that are arguably far worse. I hate playing the suffering Olympics, but it’s true—he’s literally become her therapist in Season 5. What more do you want from him? He has no one to lean on besides Plagg, while Ladybug is surrounded by an entourage of yes-men and women. He’s isolated, forced to bear the weight of his world alone, while she’s propped up at every turn.

If anything, Marinette/Ladybug doesn’t deserve him.

People are absurdly sensitive to any mistake Chat Noir or Adrien makes in the show, to the point of claiming, “He has no empathy,” or labeling him a manipulator—labels that completely contradict his character. It’s insane how they demonize him for things that simply aren’t there, driven by an unreasonable need to find fault where none exists. The sheer lack of media literacy in this fandom is staggering, especially when it comes to distorting the narrative to fit their own fantasies. If this were AO3 or Fanfiction, sure, you’d have free rein to craft your version of Adrien. But newsflash: your fanon Adrien and canon Adrien aren’t even remotely alike or similar.

The entire Love Square started because, from the very beginning, it was Adrien's kindness that touched Marinette's heart. In "Origins," it wasn’t his looks that drew her in, although they were mentioned often throughout the show she's thirsty lol —it was the moment when he offered her the umbrella as a sincere gesture of apology. That simple act of kindness was what truly made her see him for the first time. Adrien recognized Marinette’s discomfort and took action to ease it, offering her the umbrella not just as an apology, but as a way to connect with her on a human level. It's his ability to understand and respond to others' emotions that defines his character, showing that empathy is at the very core of who he is despite what anyone in the audience says otherwise. He's had a rough and terrible home life but that never stopped him from being a good boy and trying to reach out to others we have to commend him for that!! And I'm tired of being the only one to see it. He's a strong kid.

What’s next? Adrien was cruel for laughing at her? How dare he! 😂 (sarcasm, obviously). This fandom honestly.. is something.

I’ve been thinking about how Adrien is generally not an empathetic person. He’s well mannered and generally nice but I’ve yet to see him share a moment of vulnerability with someone that wasn’t about himself. There were the times he’s given Ladybug pep talks but he never seems legitimately concerned for her emotional well-being, simply smiling after she hugs him instead of showing any interest in why she was feeling the way she was and how he could help her. He literally felt the pressure she’s under every day and didn’t feel any need to change himself to help alleviate it. Of course, a large portion of empathy is learned and he hasn’t had great examples and sometimes people just don’t have the energy to genuinely care and all that but the point remains: Adrien rarely thinks about other people’s feelings. Despite how it sounds, this isn’t a criticism of him, just an observation.

[bthehufflepuff208]

So how much do you want to fucking bet that for the “Vision is Ultron” episode of “What If”, they’re basically going to sell it as:

“No matter what, whether the mind stone was used or not, Ultron/Vision would have always been created as a monster because his sole creator Tony Stark is a monster.”

To add, they’re also going to kill Tony off again, with Vision/Ultron talking about all the bullshit that was said in “Age of Ultron”, of how he’s a “sickness” and a “monster” and how he did the right thing by killing him and all that jazz.  

And I’m so fucking over it.

Like, I get it.  Tony Stark is a perfect choice for a scapegoat to hate for a good chunk of MCU fans, as he has all the things people hate:

He’s a billionaire (a born into money billionaire), which ya know, “eat the rich” and all.  He’s a man, he’s white, he’s cisgender, he’s straight (questionable to some fans, but there’s no fucking way any Marvel executives would say Tony’s bisexual or pansexual, no way).  

So due to this, most MCU fans hate his guts as he represents at least one group of people that they loathe.  I’m not saying these are the sole reasons anti-Tony people hate him, but they can’t say that it’s not at least one of the reasons.

But making him the scapegoat over and over is so fucking absurd, especially when the whole fucking point of Tony’s story is that he wants to become better, not just for his loved ones but for the world.

But with the stigma he already has with what he was born with/into, fans have absolutely no fucking trouble twisting any bad situation into blaming Tony, since he represents all the things they hate in real life anyway. 

Tony’s entire arc was supposed to show with each movie, that he wanted to become better and to truly help people.  But literally every single action Tony makes, everyone interprets it as “he’s only doing it for his ego/to protect himself.”

Tony flies a nuclear bomb into a wormhole? “Oh, he only did that because he wanted the praise of being the hero who saved the day.”  Tony wanting a defense system to protect Earth? “Oh, he only wants that because he doesn’t want to do anything to help Earth himself and wants all of the credit.”  Tony literally dying destroying an army that was going to destroy the universe? “Oh, but that doesn’t make him a hero, everything he did was always about him.  He’s still a selfish piece of shit because he didn’t want to erase his daughter (and probably millions of other children) out of existence.”  No matter what Tony does, everyone twists it as something he’s doing only for himself.

But even a little example of how everyone just twists anything and everything they can about Tony:   I saw a post talking about how they were glad Thor wasn’t friends with that “toxic piece of shit” because all Tony did throughout Endgame was mock Thor’s depression/PTSD. 

And I was like.......what fucking movie were you watching?

He did call Thor “Lebowski”, which, yes, was definitely mean-spirited.  But the entire movie?  Huhhhh?

Here’s where they twist their views to whatever they want to see.  I’ve watched Endgame over and over, and besides the Lebowski joke, I cannot come up with one point in which Tony mocks Thor.  But thinking about it, I have a pretty good idea of how anti-Tony people twisted their look on the film to see Tony mocking Thor throughout the entire thing.

In the scene where Thor is insisting on doing the snap to bring everyone back, Tony steps in and tells him he’s not in condition to do so.  In my head, and the way I’m pretty sure it was supposed to be interpreted, Tony does this because he’s concerned for Thor because he knows how bad of a place he’s in and doesn’t want to push him even further.  But to someone who hates Tony, they most likely interpreted the scene as Tony mocking Thor and calling him “weak.”  I have no fucking clue how they came to that conclusion, but I’m pretty sure that’s what they saw. 

And now, lets go back to Ultron and talk about a character and situation that infuriates me to no end.  Wanda and her involvement with Ultron.

Not only did the writers and characters of “Age of Ultron” have absolutely no problem in solely blaming Tony for what Ultron became, the majority of the people who watched it had no problem with it too. Even when in the fucking movie, it’s literally stated that Wanda manipulated his mind in hopes he would take the mind stone 

“I didn’t expect (gestures to Ultron), but I saw Stark’s fear, I knew it would control him, make him self-destruct.”

She fucking says she wanted him to take the mind stone because she knew it would cause something terrible to happen.

I’m pretty sure 99% of the reason Ultron became what he became was because of the mind stone, which was only even used in Tony’s program because Wanda basically mind controlled him into using it.  

And fucking yet.

Everyone, the characters and fans alike, were over the moon with Wanda’s bullshit “Stark can’t see the difference between saving the world and destroying it, where do you think he gets that from?” as it proved to them that Tony Stark was the monstrous villain they thought he was all along.

 AND FUCKING YET.

Tony’s whole fucking goal with the Ultron program in the first place was to protect Earth from threats he believed they wouldn’t be able to fight (and he was fucking right).  Wanda’s goal was to kill Tony, which fine, won’t get into that bullshit completely. But I’m 99% positive the scene where she lets the Hulk loose in Johannesburg that probably killed dozens of people, showed us that Wanda doesn’t really fucking care who gets killed, even if they’re innocent, as long as Tony Stark is in the body count.  And then when she finds out Ultron plans on killing everyone, which includes her and her brother, then she “see’s the light.”  BUT THEN STILL SOLELY BLAMES TONY FOR EVERYTHING SHE BASICALLY CAUSED, and the characters and the audience are like “YAS, WE STAN A QUEEN WHO EATS (AND KILLS) THE RICH!”

So coming around full circle, I’ve just had fucking enough of this scapegoating bullshit the writers have and will continue to be pulling on Tony Stark.  The “What If” Episode with Vision/Ultron will once again put the “Tony Stark was the main villain of the MCU and everything ever is his fault.”

And the fact that so many fans can and will twist anything Tony does to fit their narrative, and that the writers give them the ammunition with the scapegoating bullshit even though there’s so much evidence that shows `how truly good of a person Tony is just so fucking infuriating, disheartening, and just sad.

[luna-rainbow]

When I first heard about TFATWS, I was so excited because I wanted to see more of Bucky and Sam's dynamic. What little we got in the movies I enjoyed and I was looking forward to Mackie and Stan acting together. But in TFATWS, while I expected there to be bickering, this was just unpleasant. The two just seemed so toxic for each other and there were times where I wondered why Sam didn't tell Bucky to leave. I don't know I just wish the dynamic wasn't so hostile for most of the show. Episode five was good but after the first four episodes it's hard for me to fully enjoy. Maybe it would have been better if the show started right after they blipped back or after old man Steve left and then jumped forward? Both characters felt OOC to me so maybe that was also my problem.

Thanks for the ask!

First off I’d like to ask all Sam stans and Bucky stans and SamBucky stans not to read any further thanks.

See the amazing thing about Stackie is there’s obvious affection in the bantering. Sebastian might rant about how “you can’t trust anything Mackie says it's for your own good” and “he’s going to kill me one day”, and Anthony might make up fibs about Sebastian talking to his pot plant and being “the kryptonite of fun”, but they also gush about each other to other people (and sometimes to each other’s face).

We don’t see that in TFATWS. Fans really have to read into every brief glance, and every terse nod, and like…Sam’s one line of “what about Bucky”, and Bucky’s one “I’m coming with you” to find any…actual care between the two of them.

I used to be super cynical and judgemental when I was younger, but as I get older I come to really respect people who have the ability to see the best in others. This is why I really like the Stackie dynamic. Anthony sees past Sebastian’s shyness and finds someone interesting and thoughtful. Sebastian sees past Anthony’s chaotic jokes, and sees someone sensitive and caring. And when someone sees the best in you, they’re able to bring out the best in you.

We don’t see that with Sam and Bucky. We don’t get to see how they view or value each other. What are the good things Bucky sees in Sam that makes him stick to Sam? What are the good things Sam sees in Bucky that stops him from kicking Bucky out? What do they see in each other that brings out the best in themselves? And it actually doesn’t take much.

Bucky: I’m following the little guy from Brooklyn who’s too dumb to run from a fight. Steve: He’d do the same for me.

That was all it took to establish what they see in each other that shapes their relationship. Bucky admires Steve’s courage and goodness - and he becomes brave and good himself; Steve cannot walk away from Bucky’s loyalty and supportiveness - and he returns it with loyal support.

The other thing that makes the relationship hostile in TFATWS is the topics of their "bantering". In the same narrative we see Bucky struggling to come to terms with his past as a murder machine, we have Sam constantly make jokes about him...being a murder machine. Then, in the same narrative that transcribes Sam's struggles with systemic racism onto the shield, we have Bucky glibly and persistently using the shield as a topic to one-up on Sam. These are not funny topics. The story has shown them to be topics of incredible personal trauma to the respective characters involved. Yet they build the banter around these and...expect it to not come across as toxic?

[evilmortys]

okay,  so,  here  are  my  thoughts  on  the  finale,

i’m  gonna  start  with  the  things  i  didn’t  like,  just  because  of  who  i  am  as  a  person!  my  feelings  are  mixed,  but...  looks  lovingly  at  evil  morty.  he  truly  was  the  only  exception  as  usual  ♥

i’m  not  going  to  lie,  this  whole  thing  felt.  rushed.  although  some  of  rick’s  meta  commentary  about  not  touching  citadel  shit  because  it  was  canon  and  he  and  morty  were  supposed  to  be  going  back  to  lighthearted  one  off  adventures,  and  “the  second  he  reveals  that  he’s  evil,  we’re  out”  made  me  laugh,  it  also  felt  very  disingenuous  and  ham-fisted.  having  him  do  all  these  fourth  wall  breaks  honestly  took  away  from  the  impact  of  what  this  episode  could  have  been,  but  whatever.  

i  just  got  the  vibe  that  they  wanted  everyone  to  stfu  about  the  citadel  and  evil  morty,  so  they  quickly  stuck  together  this  episode  that  dealt  with  fans’  demand  in  one  fell  swoop  so  they  could  move  on  from  the  existence  of  both  plotlines.  i  honestly  thought  it  was  a  bit  wasteful  since  tales  from  the  citadel  resonated  with  a  lot  of  fans  and  it  was  an  interesting  bit  of  worldbuilding  with  compelling  narratives  going  on.

you  already  all  likely  know  how  irritated  i  am  with  morty’s  character  degrading  so  much  once  again.  this  entire  season  has  been  building  him  up  to  becoming  so  much  more  capable,  only  to  wrench  it  away  from  him  again  by  instead  having  his  co-dependency  with  rick  ramped  up  to  the  point  it  was  literally  out  of  character.  this  has  come  out  of  nowhere.  at  no  point  in  the  show’s  entire  run  has  morty  ever  been  this  needy  with  rick.  

again,  i  feel  like  this  may  have  been  written  around  what  eventually  ended  up  happening  at  the  citadel,  with  the  revelation  that  mortys  are  ‘bred  for  forgiveness.’  it  would  have  been  far  more  compelling  for  our  morty  to  have  continued  to  go  down  the  path  of  being  decidedly  unforgiving  of  rick’s  bullshit,  thereby  making  him  deviate  from  the  norm  in  a  similar  way  to  evil  morty  himself  and  implicating  that  the  cycle  of  a  morty  going  to  these  extremes  is  going  to  be  repeated  once  again.

rick  did  not  deserve  or  earn  voicing  the  recognition  that  his  dynamic  with  morty  was  toxic,  and  abusive.  are  you  fucking  kidding  me?  the  smartest  man  in  the  universe  only  JUST  clocked  onto  that?  bullshit!  he’s  known  all  along,  and  he’s  been  using  it  for  his  own  gain!  he  doesn’t  get  to  just  say  it  with  that  regretful  voice  as  if  he’s  been  clueless  /  oblivious  to  it  this  entire  time.  they  just  wanted  the  audience  to  feel  sympathetic  for  him  by  throwing  in  this  tidbit  and  a  tragic  backstory,  as  if  that  even  sort  of  makes  up  for  everything  he’s  put  his  family  through.  

abandoning  the  people  you’ve  hurt  is  ALSO  abusive  and  toxic  behaviour!  he’s  done  it  time  and  time  again!  how  is  acknowledging  the  fact  that  you  hurt  people,  that  you  hurt  your  family,  the  people  that  love  you  despite  the  fact  you  objectively  don’t  deserve  it,  then  ditching  them  once  again  instead  of  staying  with  them  and  improving  as  a  person  and  helping  everyone  heal  from  what  you’ve  put  them  through,  ANY  BETTER??  he  never  changes!!

i  also  couldn’t  really  process  the  fact  that  rick  just  handed  morty  his  portal  gun  like  it  was  nothing--  i  feel  like  him  topping  it  off  and  using  it  behind  rick’s  back  should  have  been  a  bigger  deal  than  what  it  was.  also,  morty  would  not  break  a  guy  out  of  a  mental  asylum  without  a  second  thought.  he  simply  wouldn’t  do  that.

we’ve  fallen  right  back  into  the  status  quo  of  morty  being  stupid  and  rick  being  the  smartest  one  in  the  room  who  always  knows  what’s  going  on,  even  when  he  actually  shouldn’t  for  the  sake  of  a  few  meta  jokes.  which  is  more  annoying  than  i  can  put  into  words  tbqh

obviously  i  hated  all  the  parallels  they  were  attempting  to  make  between  rick  and  morty  having  a  romantic  relationship  and  “breaking  up.”  never  has  morty  behaved  so  uncharacteristically  in  any  other  episode  of  the  show.  it  honestly  felt  disrespectful  to  all  the  growth  he’s  had  as  a  character  to  reduce  him  to  something  so  pathetic.

i  guess  this  is  less  of  a  thing  i  disliked,  and  more  of  a  commentary  on  rick’s  character?  but  once  again,  his  hypocrisy  really  leapt  out  at  me  once  it  was  revealed  that  he  always  has  a  hand  in  bringing  together  beths  and  jerrys  in  order  to  ensure  that  more  mortys  will  end  up  in  the  multiverse.  i  find  it  unbelievably  sad  that  he’ll  willingly  ensnare  the  two  of  them  in  the  throes  of  a  relationship  that  he  knows  is  likely  to  become  toxic  and  cause  the  both  of  them  to  be  miserable  throughout  their  time  together;  they’re  rarely  happy  /  compatible  together  and  always  end  up  sticking  it  out  for  the  kids.  it  also  makes  his  constant  shitting  on  jerry  even  more  egregious  and  almost  serves  to  call  his  love  for  his  daughter  into  question  for  me.  he’s  using  her  as  a  means  to  his  own  ends  by  manipulating  situations  so  she’ll  meet  jerry  and  they’ll  likely  end  up  together.  

don’t  get  me  wrong,  i  actually  really  loved  the  fact  he  had  a  hand  in  founding  the  citadel  he  now  loathes  so  much,  and  i  think  the  constant  creation  of  mortys  as  grandsons  ‘bred  to  forgive’  ricks  is  so  fucked  up  and  awful  in  the  most  intriguing  way.  it’s  akin  to  him  fiddling  with  the  concept  of  keeping  mortys  in  constant  pain  to  cloak  his  comings  and  goings  around  the  multiverse  (on  paper,  morty,  on  paper!),  except  this  time  he  did  it  in  reality.

evil  morty.  oh  my  god,  evil  morty.  my  saving  grace.  my  ray  of  light.  i’m  so,  so,  so  pleased  with  the  way  he  was  handled.  while  i  admit  i  was  looking  forward  to  more  of  a  slow - burn  thing,  getting  a  bit  of  insight  into  his  presidency  and  possibly  exploring  a  dynamic  with  him  and  c-137  (we’ll  get  to  that)...  i  honestly  still  really  loved  what  ended  up  happening  with  him,  even  though  i  still  believe  on  some  level  that  they  just  wanted  to  tie  up  his  narrative  thread  so  fans  wouldn’t  remain  fixated  on  him.

of  course  he  did.  of  course  that  motherfucker  rick  created  a  boundary  within  the  infinite  multiverse  that  ensured  he’d  always  be  the  smartest  man  within  it  as  far  as  mortys  and  other  people  in  his  life  were  concerned.  i’ve  always  found  it  odd  that  such  universes  were  never  brought  up  even  in  passing;  the  nature  of  infinite  possibilities  always  dictated  that  someone  smarter  than  him  must  exist  out  there,  and  that  worlds  existed  where  he  was  nobody  special.

him  being  morally  gray.  i  could  cry.  i  was  clinging  on  to  the  hope  that  it  would  be  shown  he  hates  ricks  more  than  he  looks  down  on  mortys,  and  it  absolutely  was.  while  he  was  okay  with  killing  and  hurting  mortys  to  achieve  his  own  “selfish”  ends,  it’s  clear  that  he’s  unhappy  with  the  cycle  of  abuse  from  their  infinite  grandfathers  that  pushes  him  to  these  extremes,  loathes  the  concept  that  mortys  are  not  supposed  to  defy  their  ricks.  “if  you’ve  ever  been  sick  of  him,  you’ve  been  evil  morty  too.”  he  hates  ricks  FAR  more  than  he  does  mortys,  and  you  can  pry  that  from  my  cold,  dead  hands.  he  believes  mortys  are  beyond  help  because  of  the  way  they  stick  by  rick--  the  fact  they’re  literally  created  with  being  yes-men  for  rick  in  mind.

he  didn’t  seek  to  make  changes  for  the  greater  good  of  other  mortys  within  the  citadel.  i  think  he  understood  on  some  level,  it  was  impossible.  i  think  he  has  this  belief  that  other  mortys  are  part  of  the  problem,  because  they  perpetuate  the  cyclic  dynamic  of  toxicity  and  harm--  they  don’t  move  to  break  free  from  it  the  way  he  does,  and  so  he  feels  no  guilt  leaving  them  behind  while  he  breaks  into  the  aspect  of  the  multiverse  where  rick  has  no  power.  it’s  honestly  heartbreaking  that  he’s  come  to  have  a  mindset  like  that.  

i  think  seeing  c-137  reach  out  to  help  rick  up  once  again  instead  of  accepting  what  i  hope  and  pray  was  a  semi - genuine  offer  to  join  him  as  he  departed  was  just  yet  another  instance  of  him  witnessing  a  morty  doing  the  most  to  save  the  man  who  makes  their  lives  a  living  hell.  if  he  was  truly  unsympathetic,  he’d  have  made  no  such  offer.  if  he  thinks  a  morty  is  capable  of  pulling  away  from  the  hold  ricks  have  on  them,  he  wants  them  out  of  this  shit  just  as  much  as  he  himself  wants  to  break  free  from  it.  i  think  he  has  the  mindset  that  i  know  they  tried  to  play  it  off  with  “haha  the  other  seat’s  a  toilet,”  but  i  don’t  think  that  was  the  case  and  they  were  once  again  just  undermining  the  moment  for  no  good  reason.  SCREAMS!!  don’t  get  me  wrong  what  he  did  WAS  selfish  and  evil.  but  in  a  way  you  can  understand  where  it  derives  from

again,  it  REALLY  irritates  me  they’ve  undone  so  much  of  morty’s  character  just  to  ensure  he  wouldn’t  end  up  taking  evil  morty  up  on  his  proposition.  if  morty  had  retained  even  a  tenth  of  the  character  growth  he’s  been  having  from  late  season  four  until  towards  the  end  of  season  five,  wherein  it  began  to  unravel,  he’d  have  left  rick.  undeniably.

the  yellow  portal.  oh  my  god............

it  made  me  so  fucking  emotional  to  see  that.  he’s  won.  he’s  free.  

[nrhodact]

I don't know if it's still worth answering cause the post is old and I can't speak for others who don't like the ship but I hate it not because of the morality but for a few reasons.

Viv tries HARD to backpedal with how toxic the ship is. She should just stick to her guns. The first 3 episodes in season one set it up as Blitzo and Stolas both being toxic. Biggest examples are the transactional relationship between them and that Blitzo shows visual discomfort. And Stola being a cheater. However, over time Viv backpedals by giving excuses as to why Stolas isn't that at fault. Instead of like in the beginning where Stella is rightfully mad at him for being a cheater. It turns into "actually, she's always been abusive and that's why he cheated. Yes, some people are just abusive for no reason but there is a pattern of characters being shitty with no other personality for the sake of the MC's backstory or to make them look better in comparison. (Chaz,Stella,Crim) If Stella was the only 1-dimensional villain I'd believe it more but it feels like a cop out to prop Stolas up. And there are other ways the show constantly tries to erase the bad side of Stolas. Characters like Loona saying he's a good dad but has not been around Stolas long enough to say that. Stolas is shown to comfort Octavia after a nightmare, takes her out to Loo Loo Land (but she's afraid of clowns so how good of an idea was that and maybe my standards of parenting are too high but isn't comforting your young child after a nightmare the bare minimum?) And he goes to look for her in seeing stars but spends majority of his time hanging around Blitzo cause shipping fodder. What good parent chooses comforting a fwb over finding their missing child? Again, Stolas having these flaws would be fine if Viv wasn't actively trying to push this narrative of Stolas being good. If she wants to claim he's multifaceted, she has to show his flawed side without trying to sugar coat every episode after. And because this is about Stolitz I'm going to bring up how Stolas treats Blitzo like an object but Viv wants us to forget it. Season 1, Stolas calls Blitzo his plaything, calls him when Blitzo is trying to actively not get killed on the job and hides in shame instead of standing up for the man he's supposedly in love with when he's called out in the Ozzy/fizz episode. But after that episode it's "Seeing Stars" and Stolas is being flirty with Blitzo again like nothing happened? The plotline was just dropped. I can't see it as anything other than Viv wanting a toxic pairing but not wanting the flack that comes with it so there's this constant back and forth of "they're toxic but not really"

This goes into my first complaints but I hate the woobification of Stolas. The first few episodes of season one show him to be extremely powerful but then the Striker episode happens and everything beyond that shows him as a damsel in distress. He goes from flirty to still flirty but very whiny. Sure it gives episodes a plot but there are a handful of plotlines that haven't concluded so it was unnecessary sacrifice to make Stolas as a character inconsistent

3. Viv isn't giving me a reason to root for this ship. They've flirted and had a few funny moments together and they can relate to both being fathers but there is nothing else going for them and I wouldn't call the things I just listed chemistry. I'm given a reason as to why Stolas likes him but it falls flat when at the end of their failed "date" Stolas shows wanting to make a positive change to their relationship only for him to go back to flirting with him the next episode. And Blitzo has no reason to love him. He was uncomfortable talking to him most episodes and him crying after the date doesn't necessarily show a broken heart. Stolas didn't stand up for him and he got embarrassed. Not to mention seeing all the failed relationships show up in one place. The pressure made him crack. That's a good reason to cry. Then we have the scene where he's chained to Stolas and wanting to break free. A basic understanding of symbolism will let you know that scene isn't romantic. If Viv was trying to go the Stockholm syndrome route, she could but it would need to be a slow progression to show that. Every new plotline is dropped and everything restarts like nothing happened so idk how she'll pull that off unless she sticks to a plot

My last reason might be a stretch but the pilot was built around the plot of I.M.p killing humans with Stolas loosely involved cause of the Grimmoir. But as time went on it became the Stolitz show. The only plotline that is loosely consistent is the family drama. While the D.O.R.K.S plotline was dropped, the Verosika plotline was dropped, The Cherubs plotline, again, dropped. The striker plotline alludes to coming back but it doesn't really count as it's intertwined with the family drama plot. Multiple episodes are dedicated to the drama but the plotlines that were dropped didn't get another episode. And I.M.P hasn't assassinated anyone in a while. Plots in stories can change but it's a slow progression that happens. Not an abrupt drop to pick up a whole new plot without wrapping up the others. Stolitz has hindered the show by being the only thing that seems to matter enough to Viv to continue. It wouldn't be so bad if their ship was well written but even toxic ships should be written well. It's just a couple of toxic tropes with nothing else to it.

(fyi: I use "anti so and so" not because I believe in harassing people over ships but to avoid shippers seeing people criticizing their otp, fights in my posts happening and to find people who want to have a discussion about the flaws of Helluva Boss. I wanna stick it out and continue watching in hopes the writing gets better as there are episodes I liked and what made me like the show in the beginning. I still have hope but I'm just not as passionate.)

I genuinely didn’t know there were people that are anti Stolas and anti Stolitz, cause like from what I’ve read and heard their main argument is that the morality of the whole thing is questionable.

And sure, it is, Stolas cheats on his wife to be in a sexual and emotionally complicated relationship with a dude that is literally paying him with sex to be able to do his job, there is little to nothing morally right with that

But I feel like people forget that this are…. Demons? Stolas is a self righteous prick but so is everyone, this characters have never been presented as good little sweet things, they were presented as dicks, even if they are likable and complicated they are assholes

Maybe don’t go looking for morality in a show about demons killing, swearing and fucking

[prismatica-the-strange]

Can we talk about the G.I.Joe-ification of Daniel Jackson please? I feel like Michael Shanks got buff and the writers completely scrapped the core of his character to make him another action hero, stripping away what made him unique and functioned as the moral compass of not only the team but the narrative as a whole. It would have been so much more interesting to see him get more physically fit and adept at fighting as his job required but uphold that firmly rooted morality. Or at least shine a light on how the years of being in SG1 - and dealing with the global if not universal stakes that comes along with it - made him give up his pacifism, altruism, and optimism piecemeal. That would have at least been an interesting, if not extremely sad, arc. Instead I feel like it happens in the background in a very unsatisfying way. I just watched the episode where they accidentally take hostages in a museum and I can't stop thinking about how season 1 Daniel would have behaved in that situation and how utterly different he would have handled it. Why bring in Cam to be the military leader type but then have Daniel fall into that role as well? Cam being there should have made room for Daniel to be the anthropologist, not the soldier. ( I won't even get into how Sam would have made a more compelling long term replacement for Jack - having the farscape cast there was fun at least ) Amyway I still love him obviously but i wish he either didn't change or the change was more thoroughly interrogated

Yeah. Yeah I would've loved to have watched this whole loss of faith in people as a more detailed arc.

I think it might've had something to do with the fact that the show was written by just a bunch of dudes in a room together, which caused a lot of other downfalls throughout the series. I think that his character was somewhat corrupted by what I can only describe as toxic masculinity in the writing room.

My least favorite of which was when he slept with someone in the first episode after Sha're died. I don't care how much acceptance they pushed on him in Forever in a Day, that was extremely out of character for him and a poor story choice on the writers parts.

Not to mention how they got kinda lazy and repetitive with the story, but I'll leave that for another day.

At least when he was unraveling the whole Merlin/king Arthur puzzle, he almost seemed to be enjoying himself again, but he otherwise seemed to lose his love of learning and exploring. Almost like they started writing him like the Stargate was just a job now and not something he was passionate about.

The juxtaposition of watching season 10 and season one is wild. And yeah, sometimes if I skip ahead I almost don't recognize him.

And yes Sam would've been a much better fit to lead the team. While it's not like I don't enjoy Mitchell, I just... Well I don't really enjoy him that much. His vibes don't mesh well with mine and I don't really think he brought much too the team besides his overinflated ego.

[astudyinfreewill]

“it all comes down to the soul(s) in the end”: or, characters make the story work, and not the other way around

outing myself yet again as a dabb era critical blog here but. i just think the difference between carver era and dabb era is that carver era was character-arc driven while dabb era was overarching-main-plot driven with some good character moments thrown in (which may be to do with the fact that - iirc - during carver era for a while they didn’t know if they’d get renewed so they couldn’t plan too far ahead and just progressed the story by increments, as opposed to dabb era knowing they had a longer time frame to work with and deciding the plot beforehand). 

the thing is, i think most of us can agree that after the kripke era - which, for all its flaws and setbacks (hello writers’ strike), had a self-contained myth arc involving both an internally coherent narrative and certain well-defined character beats - and going into the gamble “hot girl summer but make it angst” era, the appeal of supernatural relies largely on the characters. it has to, because for a show to keep running after 6-7 seasons, you have to be invested not just in the story/stories being told, but in the people driving the story forward. it simply won’t work otherwise.

and - to my perception at least - the carver era (perhaps largely due to ben edlund’s imprint in s8, lbr) knew that. some examples of what i mean:

it gave dean an arc about dealing with the toxicity of his upbringing and his unhealthy attachment to sam, as well as starting to explore other meaningful relationships for himself (benny, charlie, and of course him continuously reaching out to cas) - essentially it allowed dean to confront that he wanted things. 

it gave sam an arc about dealing with his trauma re: demon blood, and having to confront what it means to be good, how he always felt impure through no fault of his own - and it shifted him over into accepting that his calling in life is as a keeper of lore and mentor to other people, by contrasting the failure of the sam/amelia relationship with him finding the bunker and discovering a different part of the hunting world

it forced cas to confront what he wants for himself, by making him deal with his own changing nature (being human, then an angel again, and the whole arc about living on borrowed grace), and with the other angels falling and what that meant for him; he got the chance to be on his own and be with the winchesters, to both make mistakes and be a leader to other angels - and then give up that leadership by choice because he prioritised his human family to his reputation in heaven (which should have been a clear indication of endgame human cas but i digress)

it brought in compelling new characters - primarily charlie and kevin, though they were both horrendously mistreated by bucklemming writing them off - claire novak as an angry teenager, aaron and his golem, metatron as a fascinatingly meta (ha) antagonist, rowena as a frenemy, and gave old characters compelling story beats (crowley and his “humanity addiction”). also, it had writers like robbie thompson who were attuned to the fan community in an unprecedented way.

with the dabb era, i feel like because they’d set their mind on where the story was going (e.g.: killing dean, having a new and “better” god in place, giving sam a white picket fence ending) they didn’t really care if they had to break the protagonists’ characterisation to get us there. we still had moments of great characterisation - steve yockey episodes first and foremost, and of course robert berens carrying the dean/castiel beats - but mostly, characterisation came second to what the story would need. this is how we get dean winchester, friend and protector to kids everywhere, being A-Okay with sacrificing a kid he supposedly cares about, not once but several times over, because the plot needed Emotional Stakes™️.

(and this, by and large, is my issue with jack as a character too, because he spends so much of his time on the show so clearly being a plot device - a literal deus ex machina - that he ends up being not very compelling to me. “but baby jack!” i hear you say. and yes, yes, he’s cute and i like him, but listen -- his characterisation reads as a blank slate because ultimately that’s what the narrative needs from him - and there’s a whole separate post i could make on that, really). 

but i think the main problem is that the endgame the dabb era had in mind conflicted openly with the stakes they had set up in the carver era - and that the most attuned writers kept up with even in seasons 12-15, which is why the finale felt as stridently wrong as it did (other than being ridiculously badly written). by which i mean:

dean was set up as wanting something more for himself, more than hunting and violence, and we see that in moments - but it’s not what he ends up getting. additionally, he spends so much of seasons 8-10 breaking down his toxic traits, and then bam - suddenly, he’s turned into john 2.0, because the story demands it. 

sam was set up to become a new kind of hunter, one with a men of letters background, and find happiness in the life - so you get a side plot where he successfully organises and leads a group of hunters - but ultimately he leaves all that behind and abandons the bunker (and eileen, his natural companion going forward). 

cas was set up as choosing humanity over heaven because that’s where he wants to be, and choosing to become a hunter because he wants to be useful and do good - but that gets boiled down to “cas is still an angel but now he’s Also A Dad and that’s his one purpose in life now” (i’m sorry, i am not here for the hot take of “jack is good for cas because he can’t just revolve around dean”. first of all, that’s a disservice to cas’s character over the seasons, and second of all-- oh but it’s ok for cas to just revolve around jack? it don’t make no cents luv!)

i don’t think story-driven eras are inherently bad. i enjoyed seasons 1-5, but they take place when we’re still getting to know the characters; and there is a certain evolution for them there that you may like or dislike, but it makes narrative sense for them. but if you decide to go forward into a new era with well-established and beloved characters, you have to know who the characters are and what they want or your story will always ring hollow. the main problem i have with the dabb era is that it decided the story it wanted to tell - and didn’t stop to consider whether the characters living it out would actually organically fit into it. and isn’t that chuck’s whole mistake?

[dotthings]

The gaslighting needs to stop. Systemic power imbalanced in the tv industry are real. Network interference is real. Erasure and unkindness towards marginalized characters is real. 

I’m more on the canon analysis end of things personally, but I assure you the fans trying to figure out WTF happened here and account for stuff that objectively, even the people more skeptical acknowledge is weird and points back towards network interference, try to debunk their own theories. They are telling you that, they are transparent about their information, if you don’t feel like playing detailed murder wall, then don’t, but to deny there is a very very real power imbalance behind the scenes that hurt marginalized characters and fans, and hurt the story, is toxic. Stop it. 

Things like the Spanish dub and people who have worked on the show coming out of the woodwork to support Destiel should be a clue. Latin America believes it’s a mutually requited love story, canon confirmed from both sides, because that is what aired on a big tv network there. And watch out for that US-centric thinking that somehow thinks this doesn’t count. (Also plot twist: the US is the restrictive market. Wake up).

My wheelhouse is more canon analysis so I’m going to say now that the gaslighting about canon, about aired canon, about confirmed canon, about implied canon, seems to me a whole lot of toxic detached-from-reality hand waving so hard to still, STILL!!--try to deny the validity of Destiel. I’m glad some of y’all think this is merely hilarious, and after not showing up and not being supportive and not sticking your neck out at all to protect Destiel shippers from bullying, you came back just to eat the popcorn because it amuses you and I’m supposed to think that’s pro-Destiel supportive or something, or it’s people who have no horse in the race who just want fandom entertainment so everything’s a joke while they reinforce the exact attitudes that let this kind of systemic oppression perpetuate and get away with erasing marginalized voices in the tv industry, in fandom, in stories. Nice work, people. Your holier-than-thou attitude is real convincing. 

Then there’s the people trying to convince everyone it’s convincing to play false equivalency cha-cha and as if people only see this as canon due to a) 1 slash joke b) they stared at each other that one time c) drapes. Because old school fans are so proud that in their day, nobody wanted their queer ships to be canon and Destiel is just like *insert whatever slash ship of the past that had about 1/10th of the loud textual material and canon development Destiel has*. You want to try to argue against the epic nature of the text on Dean and Cas, hey give it your all, but it’s not going to hold up. If I started listing off the immensity, things that are textual plot points, it would be a 3,000 word essay. Stop playing false equivalency. Stop trying to artificially yank this back into the past because you can’t handle the textual validity of Destiel.

Deal with the fact that this is not an easily classifiable situation.

Even if in the end the same old systemic crap stifled its full due, and that’s the part that is tiresome, Dean and Cas deserve better than have their actual canon content demeaned.

After the story we have seen. After 12 seasons of deep-dive development. After Cas was finally openly confirmed as queer, and in love with Dean, in the final season, 2 episodes from the end, and Misha echoed it, and from Dean’s side, because full confirmation on Dean’s side is being held down, Jensen protected a romantic reading, protected people’s right to see Dean as in love with Cas not having a chance to speak his heart. Protected the right to that reading within the ambiguity that he knows is as far as the canon was able to take it. After the ship became canon confirmed as at least unrequited love story. Whether Jensen ships it or not, he has been very loudly and openly protective of fan readings and has been very openly excited about 15.18 and the handprint, he knows this is a great story and he’s been openly excited about how excited and joyful fans were about that episode. 

But what we have seen on our screens, what the story told us, transcends the muzzles placed on it. What we have seen is a mutually requited love story. We already saw in action how Dean loves Cas. We are left with, in the end, the silencing of Dean Winchester. Gosh I wonder why the silencing of Dean Winchester. Why was it necessary. Why was he not even permitted to speak at all, to anyone, to confide about how he even felt about Cas’s love confession. Why did Jensen have to do the heavy lifting to meta it for us. Why did Cas have to be left fully out of the series finale on a show he was so key on for 12 seasons, as a 3rd lead. Why is that? Because the only thing the creative team would ever be allowed to do by corporate is friendzone it and they didn’t want to friendzone it. 

So we are cursed with ambiguity from Dean’s side. And if the series finale had done better by Dean’s story, including his death, and by Cas’s story (instead of shoving him out of sight), if it hadn’t erased Eileen and Saileen, if it hadn’t failed Sam’s story, if it hadn’t been a regressive, awkward mess, most shippers would have accepted ambiguity if Dean and Cas has been given at least the respect of a reunion, if Dean had at least been given the chance to partially speak even if it couldn’t be removed from ambiguity. But the system was too scared of it. It had to be held down and muffled hard.

It was yanked out of the story artificially in ways that don’t match Destiel’s narrative importance before the series finale and don’t match 12 seasons of storytelling. It’s artificial. It is a silencing. And it shows. 

That sudden silence was a scream.

"The writers” were for it. “The writers” wanted to tell that story even if network interference prevented it. Some of us were gaslighted and smeared and bashed just for pointing it out, and we turned out to be right.

DESTIEL IS CANON. And the parts where fans still have to rely on interpretation for have ample, AMPLE, story evidence and external evidence--that has nothing to do with deeper dive murder walls, it has to do with support shown, and confirmed information--all point to a mutually reciprocated love story.

How many more times do shippers have to be proven right before people stop this. I was bullied for several seasons just for saying Destiel was a purposefully crafted a valid textual reading, by my own lane. For asserting it was a love story designed to dodge under network radar. I was bullied for years before that by antis, who didn’t like seeing people love this ship too much, who didn’t like that I refused to get down on my knees and label myself as delusional just for seeing it, for refusing to bow down and say “it’s only about 2 brothers so I am wrong to say Destiel matters too.” 

The unkindness in this fandom over all this continues to be overwhelming. Get your shit together.  You worship your favorite actors and then they show you up every time by being kinder and more open and understanding than fans manage to be. Jensen and Misha are showing you how to roll and people are ignoring it in favor of continuing to try to silence and demean Destiel shippers.

For Destiel shippers, don’t let all this gaslighting and shaming nonsense and the systemic corporate nonsense that wants Destiel silenced knock you off from your reading of canon. It was valid. It was real. Thanks to the magic of bleedback effect, now it was always textual, the subtextual has been transformed retroactively, and it’s from both Dean and Cas’s end. If you still feel doubt on Dean’s side, because we didn’t get the same loud explicit confirmation, go back to the text itself. If you believed it already for Cas, if Cas’s confession to Dean only validated what you already knew, why can’t you see it for Dean, because it’s already there. 

[antiloreolympus]

12 Anti LO Asks

1. its victim blaming of hades to tell minthe its HER fault she "couldnt get over him". like? you lied to her! youre the one who blurred the lines to date her! you were just as toxic to her if not more so by controlling where she lives and her job, all while never defending her to your cruel family! you had all the power over her while she had nothing! you dumped her for a 19 year old and dont care she crippled minthe! i wont excuse minthe's actions, but hades is ultimately the worse of the two IMO

2. you know why fans claimed "Minthe should've reacted better"? since the first episode Rachel has been drilling into their heads Minthe is an irredeemable monster, and her not bending over backwards to H/P means she deserves the absolute worst. Minthe reacting how anyone logically would doesn't matter when LO is designed to coddle H/P, and anyone against them must suffer for it, even if the victim to H/P's actions. they never wanted her to be "redeemed", they want her head on a silver platter.

3. i know this is not what she intended bc the only characterization rachel has of hxp is "the best over everything" but uh, does she know having hades control all the petroleum and gasses and whatever else is actively destroying the planet, right? like hes helping the very thing persephone draws her power from and what she's connected to be destroyed to appease hes need for wealth and power. its kinda gross hes being romanticized while he commits horrible acts like this for his bank account.

4. its not impossible to go opposite in their original myth personalities and still have it work. like in hades game, sisyphus is one of the most likable characters, achilles is gentle and kind, ares is calm and rational, etc, but it makes sense within the context of the story. LO in comparison goes "all these loving mothers are evil because i said so! this beloved god is now evil because i said so! minthe is evil because i said so!" and that's about it in terms of logic to these wild changes.

5. I can kinda get behind anon's theory about the flower nymphs looking like P to help her be undetected, the problem is there are also unrelated women in comic who are bright pink and look just like her, with hades even confusing them for her! if i had to bet the only reason they look like that is because rachel just wanted daphne to look like her to hammer home apollo is "obsessed" with P and to fake them as her "real family" over demeter. also just laziness in designing characters in general.

6. its weird hades and persephone are well aware what they're doing is bad even openly admitting it and yet the narrative is so hellbent on excusing their bad actions?? like hades being the major toxic factor in his relationship to minthe, persephone killing people, or hades wanting to bone an eternal 19 year old? like rachel you know thats not how character growth works, right? you cant show they have horrible flaws and leave them to never grow and learn from it, that's not good writing at all.

7. what i also dont get is the hierarchy makes no sense? like zeus is framed as the top god, but that would mean hades cant be the most important man ever so rachel also made him equal rank with zeus (and i guess poseidon too) so?? how does zeus have all that power over them then if theyre all equal? is it because zeus swallowed metis?  also how are the fertility goddess so powerful and rare yet so easily taken down? how are they overpowered and super weak at the same time? i just dont get it.

8. Re reading chapter 144 and other anon is right we do see the pomegranate pin on Hades outfit (so Hades gifts it to her)

But also some things to note

During the makeout session persy begins to disappear in butterfly form and hades is like "no don't leave!" And he grabs her, preventing her from leaving. Which is..kinda Ick considering they were on their way to having (public) sex and he doesn't want her to leave which seems like he's not really respecting her boundaries? (because if she does he'll "be lonely")

The pomegranate pin is Hades' to begin with so technically one of Persephones symbols is not hers (yes I know in the original myth she ate it in the underworld / was forced to eat it but still its supposed to be her symbol)

Hades notes that he "doesn't want to overstep his boundaries as host" because Persephone is a guest (too late for that)

Persephones main concern (after what a week or 2?) after being raped is when Hades wants to stop her reaction is "dont you want me anymore?"

Girl you aren't even dating ...??

Persy's literal one and only concern is that she thinks if she doesnt sleep with Hades right then or when/if he wants to that "she wont be able to give him what hes used to" ... Which is reinforcing that she went to therapy to get "over being blocked" in regards to having sex

Although Hades does mention that she shouldn't feel like she needs to please him and that a kiss can just be a kiss which would be nice

(And yet his thinking of marrying her amd he's known her for 2, 3 weeks? ... And he says "the beginning of a new relationship is exciting and scary" so hes basically indicating thay their dating at this point, I think?)

And later the nymphs in the store are like "do you wanna be the dominatrix of the bedroom?? Buy this lingerie!" And persy does. So??

Meanwhile Demeter is very worried for her daughter who is busy sitting in Hades lap in a pool. 

9. Can we talk about how anons are making fucking flow charts for the LO Timeline cause it's so ridiculously jumbled?

10. im not even against rushed relationships, ive known actual couples who met and were married all within the same year and it worked out great, the difference though is these were people who had their own lives and previous relationships. the issue with LO is RS designed it so Persephone can NEVER have relationships or a life outside of Hades, and if they did get married offscreen, it's framing their marriage in a toxic and unbalanced light. That's not a romance, it's a disaster waiting to happen.

11. i feel like there's a difference between drawing an interesting hooked/aquiline nose versus whatever the hell RS puts on Hades' face. It honestly looks like he's in between morphing into a bird half the time since it just looks like a beak over an actual facial feature.

12. are there shareholders or a board of advisors or something at underworld corp? because if there is id say they have more than enough reason to kick hades out and strip him of his titles/shares because of all the shit he's caused by being guided by his broken pp over thinking with his head. liking dating TWO employees? and getting one of them phsyically crippled by the other bc he can't be honest with either of them and she's a walking time bomb? he's a walking HR nightmare.